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Session 11. 1912. NEW ZEALAND.
EDUCATION COMMISSION (REPORT OF), TOGETHER WITH MINUTES OF PROCEEDINGS AND EVIDENCE.
Presented to both Houses of the General Assembly by Command of His Excellency.
COMMISSION TO INQUIEE INTO AND REPORT ON CERTAIN MATTERS RELATING TO THE SYSTEM OF EDUCATION IN NEW ZEALAND. Islington, Governor. To all to whom these presents shall come, and to Mark Cohen, Esquire, of Dunedin; William Davidson, Esquire, of Dunedin; James Robert Kirk, Esquire, of Gisborne; Frederick Pirani, Esquire, of Feilding ; Hugh Poland, Esquire, M.P., of Paeroa ; John Charles Thomson, Esquire, M.P., of Riverton; Thomas Umfrey Wells, Esquire, M.A., of AucklandGreeting. Whereas it is deemed expedient to appoint a Commission to inquire into and report upon the system of education in New Zealand, and the necessity or expediency of further legislation with respect thereto : Now, therefore, I, John Poynder Dickson-Poynder, Baron Islington, the Governor of the Dominion of New Zealand, in exercise of the powers conferred by the Commissions of Inquiry Act, 1908, and of all other powers and authorities enabling me in this behalf, and acting by and with the advice and consent of the Executive Council of the said Dominion, do hereby constitute and appoint you, the said Mark Cohen, William Davidson, James Robert Kirk, Frederick Pirani, Hugh Poland, John Charles Thomson, and Thomas Umfrey Wells to be a Commission to inquire into and report on the following matters relating to the system of education in New Zealand : — (1.) The cost of State education in respect to primary, manual, technical, and secondary, and its relation to efficiency ;
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(2.) The administration of the central Department; (3.) The powers and rights possessed respectively by Education Boards and other local educational authorities, and whether they should be extended. (4.) The expenditure on manual and technical instruction, and the question of local responsibility in regard to providing portion of funds therefor ; (5.) The amalgamation of local governing or controlling bodies ; (6.) Overlapping and duplication ; (7.) The finance of Education Boards, high school and manual and technical governing bodies ; (8.) Agricultural instruction and rural courses ; (9.) In what respects school instruction can be improved and made ol more practical value in equipping pupils for their future careers ; (10.) Scholarships and free places—what changes, if any, should be made in this direction ; (11.) And generally in what respects improvements can be made to secure higher efficiency, better administration, and co-ordination, and the securing of greater value for the annual expenditure on the branches of education above referred to. And with the like advice and consent I do further appoint you, the said Mark Cohen, to be Chairman of the said Commission. And for the better enabling you the said Commission to carry these presents into effect you are hereby authorized and empowered to make and conduct any inquiry under these presents at Dunedin, Christchurch, Wellington, and Auckland, and at such times as you deem expedient, with power to adjourn from time to time and from place to place as enumerated as you think fit, and to call before you and examine on oath or otherwise as may be allowed by law such person or persons as you think capable of affording information in the premises, and you are also empowered to call for and examine all such books and records as you deem likely to afford you the fullest information on the subject-matter of the inquiry hereby directed to be made, and to inquire of and the premises by all lawful means whatsoever. And using all diligence, you are required to report to me under your hands and seals not later than the twenty-fifth day of June, one thousand nine hundred and twelve, your opinion as to the aforesaid matters. And it is hereby declared that these presents shall continue in full force and virtue although the inquiry is not regularly continued from time to time or from place to place by adjournment. And, lastly, it is hereby declared that these presents are issued under and subject to the provisions of the Commissions of Inquiry Act, 1908. Given under the hand of His Excellency the Right Honourable John Poynder Dickson-Poynder, Baron Islington, Governor and Com-mander-in-Chief in and over His Majesty's Dominion of New Zealand and its dependencies; and issued under the Seal of the said Dominion, at the Government House, at Wellington, this twenty-fourth day of May, in the year of our Lord one thousand nine hundred and twelve. Approved in Council. Thomas Mackenzie, Leod. E. Johnson, Prime Minister. Acting Clerk of the Executive Council.
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EDUCATION COMMISSION: EMPOWERING COMMISSION TO MAKE INQUIRY AT ADDITIONAL PLACES IN AGRICULTURAL DISTRICTS. Islington, Governor. Whereas by a Warrant issued under my hand and the Public Seal of the Dominion on the twenty-fourth day of May, one thousand nine hundred and twelve, Mark Cohen, Esquire, William Davidson, Esquire, James Robert Kirk, Esquire, Frederick Pirani, Esquire, Hugh Poland, Esquire, John Charles Thomson, Esquire, and Thomas Umfrey Wells, Esquire, were appointed a Commission for the purpose of inquiring into and reporting on certain matters relating to the system of education in New Zealand : And whereas it is expedient to authorize the said Commission to make and conduct its inquiry at certain places in addition to those named in the said Warrant : Now, therefore, I, John Poynder Dickson-Poynder, Baron Islington, the Governor of the Dominion of New Zealand, in exercise of the powers conferred by the Commissions of Inquiry Act, 1908, and of all other powers and authorities enabling me in this behalf, and acting by and with the advice and consent of the Executive Council of the said Dominion, do hereby authorize and empower you, the said Mark Cohen, William Davidson, James Robert Kirk, Frederick Pirani, Hugh Poland, John Charles Thomson, and Thomas Umfrey Wells, to make and conduct your inquiry as directed by the said Commission at one town in the North Island and one town in the South Island, as may be selected by you, subject to the condition that each of those towns must be in an agricultural district, in addition to the cities of Dunedin, Christchurch, Wellington, and Auckland, and at such times as you deem expedient, with power to adjourn from time to time and from any such place to any such place as you think fit. And with the like advice and consent, and in further pursuance of the said powers and authority, I do hereby confirm the said Commission, except as altered by these presents. Given under the hand of His Excellency the Right Honourable John Poynder Dickson-Poynder, Baron Islington, Governor and Com-mander-in-Chief in and over His Majesty's Dominion of New Zealand and its dependencies ; and issued under the Seal of the said Dominion, at the Government House, at Wellington, this 11th day of June, in the year of our Lord one thousand nine hundred and twelve. Thomas Mackenzie, Approved in Council. Prime Minister. J. F. Andrews, Clerk of the Executive Council.
EDUCATION COMMISSION: EXTENDING PERIOD FOR MAKING REPORT. Islington, Governor. To all to whom these presents shall come, and to Mark Cohen, Esquire, of Dunedin ; William Davidson, Esquire, of Dunedin ; James Robert Kirk, Esquire, of Gisborne;.- Frederick Pirani, Esquire, of Feilding; Hugh Poland, Esquire, M.P., of Paeroa ; John Charles Thomson, Esquire, M.P., of Riverton; Thomas Umfrey Wells, Esquire, M.A., of Auckland: Greeting. Whereas by Warrants dated the twenty-fourth day of May, one thousand nine hundred and twelve, and the eleventh day of June, one thousand nine hundred and twelve, you the said Mark Cohen, William Davidson, James Robert Kirk, Frederick Pirani, Hugh Poland, John Charles Thomson, and Thomas Umfrey Wells were appointed a Commission for of inquiring into and reporting on certain matters relating to the system of education in New Zealand : And whereas by the said Warrant dated the twenty-fourth day of May, one thousand nine hundred and twelve, you were required to report to me, under your hands and seals, your opinion as to the aforesaid matters not later than the twenty-fifth day of June, one thousand nine hundred and twelve : And whereas it is expedient that the said period should be extended as hereinafter provided : Now, therefore, I, John Poynder Dickson-Poynder, Baron Islington, the Governor of the Dominion of New Zealand, in exercise of the powers conferred by
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the Commissions of Inquiry Act, 1908, and of all other powers and authorities enabling me in this behalf, and acting by and with the advice and consent of the Executive Council of the said Dominion, do hereby extend the period within which you shall (using all diligence) report to me as by the said Warrant provided to the twenty-fifth day of July, one thousand nine hundred and twelve. And with the like advice and consent, and in further pursuance of the said powers and authorities, I do hereby confirm the said Commission, except as altered by these presents. Given under the hand of His Excellency the Right Honourable John Poynder Dickson-Poynder, Baron Islington, Governor and Commander -in-Chief in and over His Majesty's Dominion of New Zealand and its dependencies ; and issued under the Seal of the said Dominion, at the Government House, at Wellington, this twenty-fourth day of June, in the year of our Lord, one thousand nine hundred and twelve. Arthur M. Myers, Approved in Council. For Prime Minister. J. F. Andrews, Clerk of the Executive Council.
EDUCATION COMMISSION: EXTENDING PERIOD FOR MAKING REPORT. Islington, Governor. To all to whom these presents shall come, and to Mark Cohen, Esquire, of Dunedin ; Willian Davidson, Esquire, of Dunedin ; James Robert Kirk, Esquire, of Gisborne; Frederick Pirani, Esquire, of Feilding; Hugh Poland, Esquire, M.P., of Paeroa; John Charles Thomson, Esquire, M.P., of Riverton ; Thomas Umfrey Wells, Esquire, M.A., of Auckland : Greeting. Whereas by Warrants dated the twenty-fourth day of May, one thousand nine hundred and twelve, the eleventh day of June, one thousand and nine hundred and twelve, and the twenty-fourth day of June, one thousand nine hundred and twelve, you, the said Mark Cohen, William Davidson, James Robert Kirk, Frederick Pirani, Hugh Poland, John Charles Thomson, and Thomas Umfrey Wells were appointed a Commission for the purpose of inquiring into and reporting on certain matters relating to the system of education in New Zealand : And whereas by the said Warrant dated the twenty-fourth day of May, one thousand nine hundred and twelve you were required to report to me, under your hands and seals, your opinion as to the aforesaid matters not later than the twenty-fifth day of June, one thousand nine hundred and twelve : And whereas by Warrant dated the twentyfourth day of June, one thousand nine hundred and twelve, the time in which you were required to report to me was extended to the twenty-fifth day of July, one thousand nine hundred and twelve : And whereas it is expedient that the said period should be further extended as hereinafter provided : Now, therefore, I, John Poynder Dickson - Poynder, Baron Islington, the Governor of the Dominion of New Zealand, in exercise of the powers conferred by the Commissions of Inquiry Act, 1908, and of all other powers and authorities enabling me in this behalf, and acting by and with the advice and consent of the Executive Council of the said Dominion, do hereby further extend the period within which you shall (using all diligence) report to me as by the said Warrant provided to the thirty-first day of July, one thousand nine hundred and twelve. And with the like advice and consent and in further pursuance of the said powers and authorities I do hereby confirm the said Commission, except as altered by these presents. Given under the hand of His Excellency the Right Honourable John Poynder Dickson-Poynder, Baron Islington, Governor and Commander-in-Chief in and over His Majesty's Dominion of New Zealand and its dependencies ; and issued under the Seal of the said Dominion, at the Government House, at Wellington, this twenty-second day of July, in the year of our Lord one thousand nine hundred and twelve. J. Allen, Approved in Council. For Prime Minister. J. F. Andrews, Clerk of the Executive Council.
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EBPOET.
To His Excellency the Right Honourable John Poynder Dickson-Poynder, Baron Islington, Governor and Commander-in-Chief in and over His Majesty's Dominion of New Zealand and its Dependencies. May it please Your Excellency,— We, the Commissioners appointed by Your Excellency's Letters Patent of the 24th May, 1912, which Letters Patent were extended on the 11th June, 1912, and still further extended on the 24th June, 1912, and on the 22nd July, 1912, by which we were directed to inquire into the following matters and things, that is to say,— (1.) The cost of State education in respect to primary, manual, technical, and secondary, and its relation to efficiency ; (2.) The administration of the central Department; (3.) The powers and rights possessed respectively by Education Boards and other local educational authorities, and whether they should be 'extended; (4.) The expenditure on manual and technical instruction, and the question of local responsibility in regard to providing portion of funds therefor ; (5.) The amalgamation of local governing or controlling bodies ; (6.) Overlapping and duplication ; (7.) The finance of Education Boards, high school and manual and technical governing bodies ; (8.) Agricultural instruction and rural courses ; (9.) In what respects school instruction can be improved and made of more practical value in equipping pupils for their future careers; (10.) Scholarships and free places—what changes, if any, should be made in this direction; (11.) And generally in what respects improvements can be made to secure higher efficiency, better administration, and co-ordination and the securing of greater value for the annual expenditure on the branches of education above referred to ; have to report as follows : — For the purpose of obtaining evidence on the matters committed to us we communicated direct with the various educational bodies and associations, and also caused advertisements to be inserted in the newspapers circulating in the localities we proposed to visit, inviting those desirous of giving evidence to appear before us. Sittings were held at Wellington, Auckland, Dunedin, Invercargill, Christchurch, and Wanganui, and every publicity was given, the meetings being held with open doors. During our inquiries thirty-seven open sittings of the Commission were held, in addition to numerous sittings of Committees. We examined (on oath or by affirmation) 206 witnesses, including the Inspector-General of Schools, representatives of Education Boards and School Committees, Education District Institutes, technical schools and colleges, secondary schools and colleges and training colleges, as well as other persons interested in the different phases of education. Written statements were also received from a number of witnesses who could not attend the sittings of the Commission. The evidence, oral and otherwise, elicited during the inquiry is attached hereto.
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In submitting this report, your Commissioners regret that the time at their disposal was not more than sufficient to allow of a hurried visit to the principal centres in each Island and the taking of evidence easily available. A large amount of valuable criticism of the methods and quality of the instruction in our State schools was given by leading educationists and other representative people, enabling the Commission to arrive at the conclusions given in this report. The limit, however, to the number of districts to be visited and the impossibility of obtaining the printed evidence before the presentation of this report will readily explain any apparent oversight in dealing with some questions of importance. The recommendations of your Commission embody proposals for the revision of the whole system of primary, technical, and secondary education on fines which should give continuity of government from the Minister to the School Committees, retaining the maximum of local interest, while ensuring complete responsibility in every grade of activity. The institution of a Council of Education, five Education Boards, School Boards in the large centres, and School Committees for the scattered districts should be an ideal method of dealing with what we consider is the most important branch of local government in the Dominion, while the proposals for encouraging local contributions to the cost of education, and the protection of the system in the more remote localities, should ensure the establishment of the greatest facilities for carrying on our education system without trenching too largely upon the public purse. The outstanding weaknesses of the present education system may be enumerated as— The complexity of the departmental administration ; The difficulty of securing satisfactory management in small education districts ; The want of uniformity, aim, and method amongst Inspectors ; The unsatisfactory methods adopted by most Boards for the appointment and promotion of teachers ; The indefinite and complicated nature of the syllabus ; The unsuitability of school buildings and equipment in many instances ; The inadequate playgrounds ; The lack of co-ordination between primary and higher branches of education ; The want of facilities for rural training ; and The absence of a degree of direct responsibility of the Boards in the expenditure of the moneys entrusted to them. The commendable features are, — The devotion to duty shown by the officials ; The services rendered without pay or reward by the large number of members of the different governing bodies ; The zeal and high standing of the Inspectors and teachers ; The considerable measure of success attained in the application of modern methods of education to the problems of everyday life ; and The readiness of the pupils to take advantage of the system as shown by the high percentage of attendance maintained, particularly in those portions of the Dominion where climatic and other conditions are unfavourable. Your Commissioners recommend the appointment of a Council of Education, to consist of fifteen members, and to be called " The Council of National Education," for the Dominion of New Zealand. The following members of the Council to be appointed by the Governor in Council: — The Minister of Education, who shall be Chairman ; The Director of Education ; The Suvervisor of Technical Education ; and Two representatives of the producing industries of the Dominion : together with ten other members, who shall be elected as under:— One by the inspectoral staffs of the several Education Boards of the Dominion ;
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One by each of the proposed five Education Boards ; Two by the certificated teachers employed in the primary schools—one to represent the North Island and the other the South Island ; One by the certificated teachers employed in the secondary schools ; and One by the Senate of the University of New Zealand. The non-official and elective members of the Council to be paid out of the consolidated revenue a sum to cover all travelling-expenses reasonably incurred by them, both in attending the meetings of the Council and transacting the business thereof, together with such sums for each attendance at such meetings as the Governor in Council may from time to time direct. The powers, duties, and functions of the Council to be, — (1.) To report to the Minister and advise him upon methods of, or developments in, State education in other countries which in the opinion of the Council can be advantageously introduced into the Dominion. (2.) To report to the Minister on any question relating to national education. (3.) To report to the Minister on all questions relating to the administration of national education within the Dominion, as well as to the coordination of all branches of such education. (4.) To prepare a uniform code of regulations (dealing with guiding principles, but omitting details) referring to school curricula, school attendance, the staffing of schools, the classification of teachers ; making provision for the payment of Inspectors' and teachers' salaries ; for the erection and equipment of schools ; for the cost of transferring teachers, and for the conveyance and board of pupils ; for grants for scholarships and free places ; for the control of training colleges ; for the maintenance of higher education ; and for the control of other institutions administered by the Department. The Council to furnish to the Minister for presentation to Parliament a report covering their operations for each year ending the 31st December, such report to be presented to Parliament not later than July, and if Parliament be not then sitting, then within ten days after the commencement of the next ensuing session. The Council to meet half-yearly, and at such other times as the Minister may direct. Education Boards. The Commission recommends the reduction of the number of Education Boards from thirteen to five, the suggested Boards being,— One Board for the Auckland Education District as at present; One Board for the Wanganui, Taranaki, and Hawke's Bay Education Districts ; One Board for the Wellington, Nelson, and Marlborough Education Districts ; One Board for the North Canterbury, South Canterbury, Westland, and Grey Education Districts ; and One Board for the Otago and Southland Education Districts. Each Board to consist of twelve members, elected for three years, from four wards of the district, on adult suffrage. The Education Boards to have the right of control over primary, technical, and secondary education, as well as Native schools, within their own districts, as far as the powers conferred by legislation on Education Boards, Boards of Governors of secondary schools, and Managers of technical schools are concerned. It is recommended, on account of the increased duties and responsibilities devolving on the new Education Boards, that Parliament should consider the advisability of granting an annual fixed allowance to the Chairman of such Boards. The following returns show (A) the schools of each grade in each of the proposed districts, and (B) the average attendance at such schools as at the end of 1911 : —
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(A.) Number of Schools in each Grade.
(B.) Average Attendance in the Schools included in Return A.
School Boards. School Boards, to consist of seven members, should be established in every city or borough with a population of over 8,000, such city or borough to include adjacent boroughs and road districts in its school district, the Board to have control of primary, secondary, and technical education, subject to such control by the Education Board as may be prescribed. A School Board may be established in a borough having a population of not less than 4,000, or in a county with a population of not less than 4,000, inclusive of boroughs but not School Board districts, within its boundaries, provided a majority of the electors who vote declare in favour of the establishment of such Board at a poll taken by direction of the Education Board at the request of at least one hundred electors. The funds of the School Boards to consist of a capitation of ss. for every pupil on the total average weekly roll in all schools (primary, secondary, and technical) within the school district, as well as such grants for maintenance of buildings, and special grants, as may be made by the Education Board ; a subsidy paid by the Government of £1 for every £1 raised by voluntary contribution for purposes approved by the Education Board ; a Government subsidy of £2 for every £1 raised by local rates or contributed by local bodies for purposes approved by the Education Board ; and a Government subsidy of £1 for every £1 donated by bequest for school purposes. The School Boards should be elected annually before the last day in February by the vote of those enrolled on the municipal or electoral roll, as the case may be. The right should be conferred upon School Boards to set up Committees for the management of secondary schools or technical schools under their jurisdiction, and to " co-opt" any persons specially qualified to act thereon. A meeting of the electors of the School Board district to be held annually in February before the election of the Board, at which the reports and balance-sheets of the various schools, and a statement of the administration of the Board shall be read, and motions in connection with Education dealt with,
District. Grade 0. Grade 1. Grade 2. Grade 3. Grade 4. Grade 5. Grade 6 and Total . upwards. Auckland Middle District of North Island . . Wellington Canterbury Otago 39 22 68 19 14 115 66 75 63 74 145 90 76 78 91 79 47 36 53 68 118 109 68 77 90 18 39 18 30 22 60 50 50 46 53 574 423 391 366 412 Total schools 162 393 480 283 462 127 259 2,166
District. GradeO. Grade 1. Grade 2. Grade 3. Grade 4. Grade 5. Grade 6 and Totals, upwards. Auckland Middle District of North Island . . Wellington Canterbury Otago 259 110 342 117 101 1,496 790 861 737 824 2,730 1,824 1,567 1,557 2,007 2,437 1,470 981 1,552 2,008 6,185 5,547 3,444 3,695 4,485 1.878 3,854 1,827 2,938 2,233 21,701 14,396 14,553 16,384 16,741 36,686 27,991 23,575 26,980 28,399 Totals 929 4,708 9,685 8,448 23,356 12,730 83,775 143,631
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School Committees. Where practicable the Education Board should divide that portion of its district which is not within the boundaries of a School Board district into school districts containing not fewer than two schools nor more than ten schools, for which the electors should appoint a Committee. Where it is not practicable to combine two schools in one district, a Commissioner or Commissioners shall be appointed for each school by the Education Board. The Education Board should prescribe by Regulation (to be approved by the Minister) the duties of and payments to School Committees or Commissioners respectively, as well as the number of members (which should not exceed seven) of each Committee. The Inspectorate. It is recommended that Inspectors in each of the proposed five education districts be classified as under : — (1.) One Chief Inspector, at a salary of £600, rising by £10 yearly increments to £650. (2.) Two Senior Inspectors, at a salary of £500, rising by £10 yearly increments to £550. (3.) Inspectors, at a salary of £400, rising by £10 yearly increments to £450. A unifoim rate of travelling-expenses to be paid in addition. Under these proposals no Inspector should receive a salary less than that now paid to him. The number of Inspectors to be appointed in each education district should be subject to the approval of the Director of Education. It is strongly recommended that the giving of help in organizing and teaching in schools in charge of inexperienced teachers should be regarded as the most imimportant of an Inspector's duties. In the event of the Native schools being taken over by the Education Boards, the services of the present Native-school Inspectors should be retained. The Cost of Education. The total increase in the cost of State education in the Dominion during the last eleven years up to the 31st March, 1911, to the nearest £1,000, amounts to no less a sum than £504,000. This sum is accounted for under the following heads :— £ (1.) Primary education .. .. .. ~ 360,000 (2.) Secondary education .. .. .. .. 78,000 (3.) Technical education .. .. 50,000 (4.) Higher education - .. .. .. .. 16,000 £504,000 In connection with the above statement it is interesting to show the special items of increase : (1.) Of the £360,000, the increased cost of primary education, teachers' salaries account for £244,000, of which sum £68,000 is due to increased attendance ; £156,000 to increases in the rates of salary ; and £20,000 to more liberal staffing and the increased number of small schools—a consequence of the growth of settlement. As showing the attention that has been paid to small country schools it may be pointed out that the average cost per pupil in sole-teacher schools in 1900 was £3 17s. 3d., whereas in 1910 it amounted to £7 os. Bd., the total increase being nearly £90,000. The average salary paid in all sole-teacher schools in 1910 was £114 16s. 6d., together with house allowance or free house. Your Commis-
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si oners believe that much of the objection to the increased charges for education has been due to the fact that a number of items are now included in the total which have really little connection with education in its ordinary sense. For instance, public library subsidies, infant-life protection, schools for the deaf, blind, and backward children, industrial schools, &c, involve an annual expenditure of over £60,000. There have certainly been great increases in teachers' salaries, in the cost of training teachers, and in the expenditure on school buildings ; but no one can justly say that the sums now granted for these purposes are sufficient. The free-place system is mainly responsible for the increase in district high school salaries and the grants to secondary schools and technical schools. The adoption of the Commission's proposals in regard to free places should result in a considerable saving. It will be noticed that there has been a large increase in the cost of administration by the Boards, a great deal of which has been necessitated by the demands of the central Department for returns not commensurate with the advantages gained. The following table shows the expenditure on the principal items legitimately charged to primary and secondary education for the years 1900 and 1911, respectively : —
1900. 1911. £ £ (1.) Head Office .. .. .. .. 4,869 18,816 (2.) Education Boards— (a.) Teachers' salaries and allowances . . 357,249 627,371 (&.) Incidental expenses of schools.. .. 32,823 42,830 (c.) School buildings .. . . . . 51,805 160,401 (d.) Scholarships.. .. .. .. 8,388 9,616 (c.) District high school salaries* .. .. .. 17,880 (/.) Training of teachers .. . . .. 3,515 28,992 (g.) Manual and Technical Instruction .. 5,201 65,195 (h.) Staffs, members' expenses and incidental office expenses .. .. .. 29,231 43,697 (i.) Free school-books .. .. .. Nil 10,187 (3.) School Journal .. .. .. .. Nil 3,369 (4.) School Cadets .. .. .. .. 3,240 6,513 (5.) Secondary schools— (a.) Endowments .. .. .. 34,177 41,285 (&.) Government grants .. .. .. Nil 59,253 (6.) Native schools (including inspection) .. 20,059 36,154
*jlncluded in " Teachers' salaries " in 1900.
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The following return supplies an analysis of the expenditure on education during the past twelve years :—
Analysis of Expenditure on Education in New Zealand. (Figures given in every case to the nearest £1,000.)
1900-1. 1901-2. 1902-3. 1903-4. 1904-5. 1905-6. 1906-7. 1907-8. 1908-9. 1909-10. 1910-11. 1911-12. A. (1.) Primary (including Native schools and 467,000 training colleges) (2.) Secondary (including secondary schools 3,000 and secondary departments of district high schools) (3.) Continuation and technical .. .. 5,000 (4.) Higher education (including university 12,000 and higher technical) £ £ ,467,000 517,000 3,000 4,000 £ £ £ £ £ 542,000 565,000 i 574,000 611,000 j 717,000* 17,000 26,000 37.000 51.000 ! 68,000 16,000 23,000 ! 28,000 45,000 j 54,000 14,000 12,000 ; 17,000 | 34,000 I 41,000 £ 736,000 76,000 £ 756,000 74,000 £ 769,000 80,000 £ 844,000 88,000 £ 892,000 91,000 5,000 12,000 12,000 12,000 64,000 24,000 59,000 28,000 58,000 39,000 52,000 31,000 58,000 30,000 Totals, A .. .. ..487,000 487,000 545,000 589,000 ! 626,000 ! 656,000 : 741,000 880,000 900,000 917,000 946,000 1,015,000 1,071,000 B. Industrial schools .. .. .. 19,000 C. Special schools (deaf and blind and home for 6,000 backward children) D. Superannuation and miscellaneous .. 4,000 19,000 6,000 22,000 4,000 27,000 6,000 37,000 13,000 26,000 9,000 31,000 8,000 36,000 5,000 32,000 7,000 39,000 17,000 33,000 I 9,000 | 42,000 11,000 40,000 8,000 4,000 8,000 3,000 3,000 3,000 5,000 5,000 8,000 j 14,000 10,000 15,000 14,000 Totals, A, B, C, D .. .. 516,000 579,000 625,000 679,000 ! 694,000 785,000 926,000 947,000 987,000 998,000 jl.083,000 1,133,000 * Principal increases: Teachers' salaries, £30,000; training colleges, £17,000; sehoo Jbuildings, £31,000; and conveyance of school-children, £5,000.
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Administration op Central Department
The Commission recognizes the efficient manner in which the detail work of the Education Department has been carried out, and that some of the salaries are .certainly not commensurate with the ability and zeal of the officers employed. At the same time, it is believed that a very considerable saving will be effected and local control and responsibility be increased by placing upon the new Education Boards many of the duties now carried out by the Department. Amongst these may be enumerated the inspection of secondary schools, of free kindergartens, of manual, technical, and agricultural instruction ; provision for the issue of railway passes for pupils and teachers ; keeping of maintenance and rebuilding accounts on the basis agreed upon ; accounts in reference to and the control of Native schools. The simplification and (in certain cases) the abolition of returns will reduce enormously the clerical and printing work. For example, instead of the annual returns required to be furnished to the Department by Education Boards and now known as Nos. 1, 2, 3, 6, and 7, all relating to primary and district high schools and salaries, three returns only should be required to be furnished, and these in simplified form, as follows : —
No. 1. (To replace the present Nos. 1 and 2.) Return of Schools, Salaries and Allowances of Teachers, as at the beginning of the Year 1912.
No. 2. (To replace No. 3 at present furnished quarterly.) Adjustment in Salaries and Allowances during the Year ending 1912.
No. 3. Names, Status, and Emoluments of Teachers on the Staff of Public Schools. (To include all the columns in the present Return No. 7 and column 2 in Return No. 6 : the other columns in the last-named return to be done away with.) Thus in the return published in the annual report and known as Appendix E, containing twelve pages of printed matter, with fifteen columns of information, columns 3 to 10 inclusive would be dispensed with, so reducing the return by more than one-half. It is estimated that if the reforms here outlined are adopted a saving of approximately £10,000 a year in the administration of the Department could be effected, while the total extra cost to the Boards would probably not exceed one-fifth of that sum. As the present method of administering the manual and technical instruction in the Dominion lacks uniformity and co-ordination, and is anything but economical, it is recommended that the services of a Supervisor be obtained in order to place this important branch of national education on a satisfactory basis. The Education Department, as at present constituted, consists of six branches, as follows: — (1.) The Official Branch; (2.) The Examination Branch ; (3.) Manual and Technical Instruction Branch;
Aggregate. Grade. Number of Schools open. Salaries of Teachers, including District High Schools, Pupil-teachers' House Allowances, and Probationers' Allowances.
Grade. Number of Schools open. Amount provided by Department. Amount paid by Adjustment with DepartBoard. ment. Dr. Cr.
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(4.) The Native Schools Branch; (5.) School Journal Branch; and (6.) Industrial and Special Schools Branch. The reconstitution of the Department is recommended on the following lines : — (1.) A Director of Education, responsible to the Minister for the general administration of all State education, other than university. (2.) The Native Schools Branch to be abolished. (3.) The Minister to appoint such other officers under the Director of Education as may be required for the efficient administration of the Department. Training of Teachers. The training colleges as at present constituted are doing good work, but it is suggested that in order to provide an adequate supply of trained teachers the maximum number of students allowed by regulation at each college be increased, and that facilities for giving a wider range of experience be provided by associating with each college a number of teachers at neighbouring schools—selected on account of the excellence of their work—to whom the training-college students should be sent for specified periods for the purpose of observation-work. It is also urged that candidates for appointment in secondary schools be required to undergo at least one year's training in a training college, and that for the purpose of affording practice in teaching an approved secondary school in the neighbourhood be associated with the training college. As bearing upon the question of the shortage of teachers, attention has been directed to the fact that suitable candidates for pupil-teachers and probationers are debarred from entering the profession owing to the limitation of the number who may be employed by the Boards. It is therefore recommended that the number of probationers now permitted to be employed be largely increased, and that Education Boards be allowed to allot them to any approved school. If these suggestions are given effect to, it will be unnecessary to comply with the demand made in certain quarters that a number of certificated teachers should be imported from the Old Country. TEACHERS' SALARIES. In spite of the fact that the remuneration paid to teachers has been materially increased during the past ten years, there has been a practically unanimous demand throughout the Dominion for an increase in salaries, and it has been very strongly urged that the prizes at present offered are not sufficiently numerous to attract to the profession the most promising young men in the community. It is recommended that improvements be made by including in Grade X all schools having an average attendance of over 500, and by providing that no certificated teacher in charge of a school above Grade I should be paid less than £150 per annum. Considerable stress has been laid upon the necessity for defining the position of infant-mistress in the higher-grade schools, and we recommend that the salary attached to such position should not be less than that of the second assistant. Teachers in the secondary department of district high schools and assistants in secondary schools are at present underpaid. In view of the high qualifications required from these teachers, and of the long course of study thus entailed, it is suggested that, in the event of the control of secondary schools being placed under Education Boards, a Dominion scale of salaries at an increased rate for these teachers be formulated, and that in it the principle of yearly increments be established. That the special allowance of £30 per annum now made to head teachers of district high schools be discontinued. No deduction should be made from the salary of a teacher who has qualified for a certificate, but who is under twenty-one years of age. STAFFING OF SCHOOLS. It is to be regretted that in many large schools classes of sixty or seventy pupils are in charge of a single teacher. The coming into full operation of the new scale of staffing will remedy the evil to some extent; but even then the ideal of
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forty pupils per teachetf will not be reached. The following table shows the period that will elapse before the new scale takes full effect:—
Grading, Promotion, and Examination of Teachers. Very complete evidence was given in Auckland and Wanganui as to the success of the schemes of grading and promotion adopted in those districts, the main features of which are the prominence given to teaching-ability, to organization, and to attention to the essentials so important in those entrusted with the training of the youth of the Dominion. It was shown that the great majority of the teachers and Committees in the districts mentioned were satisfied that the system was better than the old method of appointment, the evils attaching to canvassing especially being largely avoided, and efficient teachers being ensured fairer opportunities of promotion. Every Education Board should institute a system of grading and promotion of teachers, and at annual conferences of Chief Inspectors applications for transfer of teachers from one education district to another could be dealt with. In the event of a teacher on the Grading List being superseded by the promotion of another teacher, the former should have the right to appeal against such action to a Committee consisting of a representative of the Education Board concerned, a representative of the teacher, and a Chairman appointed by them. In the event of the appeal being sustained, such teacher shall receive promotion at the earliest possible date. The attention of your Commission has been drawn to the fact that, on the 13th February of this year, amended Regulations for the Examination and Classification of Teachers were gazetted, and that though by an Order in Council dated the 25th March the coming into operation of these regulations was postponed until the Ist June, 1913, many teachers were put to considerable trouble and expense in consequence of receiving insufficient notice of the proposed change. It is recommended that in future at least twelve months' notice should be given before similar new regulations become operative. It is further recommended that every facility and encouragement should be given to uncertificated teachers to become qualified, by allowing them to take the examination for the D certificate in sections of any three or more subjects in any order in any one year, and that they receive credit for every subject in which they obtain a pass. Manual and Technical Instruction. The system of paying Boards capitation on manual work done in schools on the basis of individual attendance on certain days at schools should be abolished, and the Government should substitute as basis the average weekly roll of the schools in the standards in which the instruction is given.
Number Number of Ai isistants and Rate of Salary. Grade. Schools. 1912. j 1913. 1914. 191t. j I 1916. I V VIA VlB VIIa VIlB VIIIa VIIIb VIHc IXa IXb IXc X 118 55 34 31 23 21 14 12 8 8 5 28 1 at £90 1 at £90 1 at £135 1 at £90 1 at £90 1 at £90 1 at £90 I at £90 1 at £135 1 at £90 1 at £90 2 at £90 1 at £90 1 at £90 I at £90 1 at £90 1 at £90 1 at £90 2 at £90 2 at £90 3 at £90 2 at £90 2 at £90 2 at £90 2 at £90 2 at £90 Net total assistants added 173 145 153 153 146 Net total additional cost .. £7,785 £8,055 £9,360 £6,885 £2,935 Addition to estimates £2,000 £8,000 £8,300 £8,700 £6,000
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The scale of payment for country classes should be considerably increased. The system of payment for instruction in technical subjects should be revised in the direction of making the payments depend less upon capitation, and thus give the teachers more stable salaries and the managing body security of finance. By the abolition of district high schools and the diversion of free-place pupils from secondary schools, the attendance at technical schools should increase and their permanence be secured. It should be possible for the Boards to obtain the services of the Agricultural Department's Instructors who could institute occasional classes in veterinary science, wool-classing, bee-keeping, fruitgrowing, &c. The significance and importance of the fact that in our technical schools the girls greatly outnumber the boys in the commercial classes should not be lost sight of by the community. Secondary schools should not provide for the teaching of shorthand, typewriting, and book-keeping, except the elements of the last-named subject. The evidence of those in charge of the trade classes in the various technical schools points unmistakably to the advantage of establishing a standard or Dominion examination in the work of such classes. To that end it is suggested that the Council of Education should frame regulations for the issue of certificate of efficient instruction to those apprentices who qualify in such instruction. In the case of plumbers' apprentices, it is especially necessary that the certificate of efficiency and competency to practise as a journeyman that is granted by any one technical college should be recognized throughout the Dominion, and be accepted by the local bodies that register or license plumbers. If this standard examination be established the examinations under the auspices of the London and City Guilds'* Institute could be dispensed with. The need for a uniform examination in respect to the teaching of arts and crafts within the Dominion has been emphasized by a number of witnesses, and it is recommended that this proposal be given effect to. Facilities should be afforded for the exhibition at the chief centres of the best work done at such examination. Continuation Classes. That so many pupils leave school without passing Standard VI justifies the introduction of compulsory continuation classes in technical schools. The provision made in the Act of 1910, defining " young person " as a boy or girl over the age of fourteen years, but not over the age of seventeen years, and the general provision that no capitation shall be paid in respect to technical-school pupils under fourteen years of age, do not take into account the fact that so many pupils leave school before they attain the age of fourteen years. The onus of proving that employees are exempt from attendance at compulsory classes should be placed upon the employer. In respect to attendance at technical schools for vocational instruction, it is necessary to make provision that in certain trades apprentices or youths under twenty-one years of age be allowed time off during the week to attend technical schools. Overlapping. Your Commission has made'extensive inquiries into the matter of overlapping and duplication of school and college courses, and is of opinion that on the whole this evil is not at present greatly in evidence ; it is creeping in to some extent when district high schools, technical day schools, and high schools exist in the same locality. In such cases the district high school should be closed, and the work at present undertaken therein divided between the high schools and the technical day schools. Education Boards should be granted the power of closing existing district high schools whenever the work now being carried on therein can be undertaken equally well in neighbouring educational institutions. A certain amount of overlapping exists as between art schools and technical schools, but it is difficult to see how this is to be avoided, unless all art schools receiving Government grants are placed under the control of the proposed School Boards or Education Boards. Trend of Education. One of the main, if not the chief, defects of the present scheme of education is its tendency to make the public examinations the objective, the result being that the ranks of clerks (in the case of men) and of typistes (in the case of young women) are
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unduly extended. The growth of the cities at the expense of the rural and country districts, as disclosed by the last census, is disquieting. If the suggested modifications of the syllabus result in a bias being given to the primal industries of the Dominion—agriculture, dairying, and other important industries—and to the increased productiveness of the soil, the Commission is convinced that the material 'prosperity of the people of the Domioion will be greatly enhanced. Secondary-school Endowments. The position of endowments for secondary education is hardly as satisfactory as would seem to be necessary, if the full purpose of this means of ensuring the real intentions of the trusts in the light of modern methods is to be carried out. While it is not suggested that any attempt should be made to divert the revenue derived from the district at present benefited, considerable improvements could be effected in the administration of the funds in question. Instances of Government subsidies having been injudiciously given to secondary schools were drawn attention to with reference to Christchurch and Oamaru institutions respectively. In the one case £601 was paid to a richly endowed school for the erection of a gymnasium, and in the other the principal returned the full amount of his salary (£SOO a year) to the Board of Governors and Government subsidies of £1 for £1 were paid on the salary returned. Reduction in Expenditure. There are not many directions in which economy can be exercised without impairing the efficiency of the education system. A saving of some £50,000 per annum might be effected by, inter alia, the alteration of the system of control, the demilitarization of Junior Cadets, the placing of the whole work of inspection in the hands of the Boards, the reform of free places and scholarships, the simplification of returns, the supply of all school requisites to the Boards direct from the manufacturers on the order of the Council of Education, and the abolition of postal and telegraph charges which involve considerable expense in book-keeping alone. Demilitarization of Junior Cadets. For the systematic carrying-out of the course of physical instruction recommended in another part of this report it is desirable, owing to the inauguration of the scheme of Dominion defence, that the Junior Cadets of the Dominion should be demilitarized. Universal recognition will be made of the good work done by the Junior Cadets in the past, of their fine esprit de corps, and their general amenability to discipline, while the zeal of their officers of all ranks is entitled to the highest praise. We therefore recommend that, wherever it is possible to do so, the military authorities should mark their sense of the public spirit shown at all times by the teachers who have so willingly given up their time and devoted so much personal attention to forwarding the movement by conferring on these officers commissions either in the Territorials or the Senior Cadets. We see no reason why the Junior Cadets, besides being permitted to wear a uniform dress in keeping with their altered conditions, should not continue to engage in squad and company drill and other manoeuvres consistent therewith, should not still practise shooting with miniature rifles, and should not where possible adopt the best of Boy Scout methods. These methods are designed in the main to upbuild character ; and whatever makes for the strengthening of the moral as well as the physical side of boy nature must ultimately produce good, honest, upright, and God-fearing citizens. Schoolboys under fourteen years of age should not be brought under the Defence system. All communications affecting the Cadets should be made through the headmaster of the school. Agricultural Education. In respect to the rural course in district high schools, and to the teaching of agriculture generally, and to the great importance of agriculture to the Dominion, this subject is not receiving the attention it deserves. To meet objections that have been urged in some quarters against the rural course, we recommend that in the Junior Civil Service and the Matriculation Examinations more marks than those at present allotted should be given to the subjects in the rural course.
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Continuation classes in agriculture and dairy-work in connection with district high schools should be arranged wherever practicable, due consideration being given to the time of the year and the hours of the day when such classes can be carried on with least inconvenience to farm-work. It is further recommended that as soon as the attendance in the secondary department of a district high school in an agricultural or pastoral district reaches an average of eighty an agricultural high school should be established on the lines of those recently set up in Victoria and New South Wales. Two agricultural colleges should be established in the Dominion—one in the North Island and one in the South Island—at which, in conjunction with the University colleges, practical work up to the Bachelor of Agriculture and Bachelor of Veterinary Science standards might be undertaken. Shorter courses of study should be arranged in order to qualify Inspectors, teachers, and organizers in the different branches of agriculture, directors of dairy schools, &c. Lincoln College might well undertake this work for the South Island, while the college to be established under the recent Campbell bequest in the Auckland District might, with Government assistance, satisfy the needs of the North Island. The Syllabus. On the question of the efficiency of the present primary-school system and the syllabus generally, an immense amount of evidence, much of which is remarkably conflicting, has been taken. Some witnesses have given it as their opinion that the children leaving our primary schools to-day are not as well grounded in the essentials of a primary-school education as were the pupils of ten or fifteen years ago. On the other hand, many have asserted quite as confidently that the boys and girls of to-day are just as well grounded, and are, moreover, more resourceful and more self-reliant than were the scholars of a decade since. The weight of the recorded testimony on the whole is in support of the latter view. Teachers and Inspectors have expressed almost unanimous approval of the aim and scope of the present syllabus, and it appears evident that any apparent weakness has been the result of misunderstanding and misinterpretation on the part of many teachers and Inspectors. While the Commission concurs in this view of the syllabus, it is strongly of opinion that the time has come when it is advisable to make alterations and modifications, in order to impress upon all concerned the paramount importance of paying the utmost attention to those essentials which, in a primary-school course should ever be the first consideration. 1. Speech. —ln order to counteract the tendency amongst young people towards slovenliness in speech, indistinct utterance, and impurity of vowel sounds, it is recommended that throughout the whole school course daily practice be given in correct methods of breathing, and in the right use of the tongue, lips, and teeth in speaking. Exercises, graduated to suit the classes from the infant department to Standard VI, having for their object the securing of purity of vowel-sounds, should be given daily. Teachers should be instructed to pay special attention to their own speech in order that their pupils may have, as far as possible, correct models for imitation. .^ 2. Reading. —ln Standards I, 11, 111, and IV, the Miscellaneous Reader is unnecessary, and even harmful, if every extract is treated as a task. The quantity of matte,' is so great that the cramming of all the lists of spelling and meanings, together with the explanation necessary occupies so much time as to leave little or none for supplementary reading. The result is that, instead of our children leaving the primary school with a real love for the reading of good literature, they frequently have an utter distaste for it. Your Commission strongly recommends that in Standards I, 11, 111, and IV the requirements of the syllabus in reading should be met by the use of the School Journal, together with Supplementary Readers. In this connection there should be provided in every schoolroom a bookcase containing a supply of books selected from lists prepared by the Education Board and suited to the age of pupils in the respective standard classes. Several sets of Supplementary Readers—sufficient for the whole or part of the pupils in a class—should be provided. Silent reading, correlated with oral or written composition, geography, or history, should be encouraged. Children might also keep a
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list of the books they read. In Standards V and VI, instead of the Miscellaneous Reader now in use, a book on the lines of " Preparatory Reading and Composition," by Lewis Marsh, should be prescribed, when approved by the Council of Education. It might be prepared under the direction of the Council of Education and be printed -by the Government. In addition to such a text-book, the School Journal and Supplementary Readers should be used. 3. Spelling. —This should remain as at present prescribed, except that words might be taken from selected lessons in the School Journal. This subject should be judged, not so much from special tests, as from the spelling shown in composition and other written work. 4. Poetry. —The School Journal should contain poetry suited to the requirements of the children in the several standard classes. As in the teaching of reading, special attention should be paid to the securing of clear enunciation, distinct articulation, and purity of vowel sounds. 5. Writing. —Neatness, simplicity, legibility, and reasonable speed should be insisted on in all written work. Formal lessons in writing should not be required in classes above Standard IV. This would enable the pupils in these classes to devote more time to other essential subjects. 6. Composition. —The amount of formal grammar prescribed in the present syllabus is sufficient, but the requirements for each standard class should be more definitely stated. 7. Arithmetic. —The work prescribed should be simplified and made more practical. Great emphasis should be laid upon the importance of oral and mental work, especially in classes below Standard IV. In all tests in these lower classes no problems should be given except such as can be worked mentally by the pupils. Rapid, neat, and accurate mechanical work should be the aim of the teacher. In the upper standard classes the answers to at least four out of any six questions set in a test should depend upon mechanical accuracy, and correctness in these answers should entitle a pupil to a pass. The syllabus in this subject requires recasting in the direction of reducing the requirements for certain classes and redistributing the work over the whole of the standards. 8. Geography. —The courses now prescribed should be unified and simplified, and the requirements in mathematical geography reduced in quantity and simplified in method of treatment. More attention should be paid to that branch of the subject which deals with industries and products. An oral class examination should be the only test of work covered in mathematical geography. 9. History. —Ample evidence has been forthcoming to show that in the past this subject has been neglected in most schools. A definite course of study in history should be set out; even for Standards I, 11, and 111 there should be drawn up lists of stories in connection with men and women who have performed notable deeds in British and in New Zealand history. These stories should be told to or read by the children. In the three upper classes a definite three-years course in British and New Zealand history and in civics should be clearly laid down, and Inspectors instructed to see that such course is satisfactorily carried out. A textbook like that now in use in some Education districts should be prescribed. The use of the lantern in teaching history and geography should be encouraged wherever practicable. 10. Drawing. —The course of study should be simplified. Freehand drawings should be made almost entirely from nature or from actual objects. The requirements in geometrical drawing should be reduced, and only so much prescribed as can be applied to practical purposes. 11. Singing. —The quality of the instruction varies very much in different districts. Singing is so important a subject in connection with all school-work (particularly in the teaching of infants) that special attention should be paid to it in the teachers' training colleges. If the Dominion be divided into five Education Districts, each Board should appoint a travelling Instructor who would visit the schools, give model lessons, hold Saturday classes for teachers in various centres, and generally do much to raise the standard of musical taste throughout the Dominion. 12. Physical Instruction. —This subject should be regarded as one of the most important in the primary-school course. Very special attention should be paid to
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the physical education of our boys and girls, and, as with singing, it is recommended that in each of the five education districts an expert in physical instruction be appointed whose duty it would be to superintend the carrying-out of a course of study in this subject approved by the Council of Education. 13. Moral Instruction. —Ample opportunties are provided in the list of subjects suggested in the syllabus under this head, and if teachers will only realize that " The purpose of education is to give to the body and the soul all the beauty and all the perfection of which they are capable," time will be found for giving earnest attention to this subject, and character-building will be regarded as the goal to which all educational effort must be directed. In order to help teachers in this part of their work, the Commission strongly recommends that the series of books, " The Children's Book of Moral Lessons," by F. J. Gould, should be placed on the shelves of every school library. 14. Nature Study. —During the past few years much has been done in the way of introducing this subject as an integral part of our primary-school course, but much still remains to be done. Nature study should hold an important place on the time-table of every school. Prom informal chats in the infant department on the animals and plants of a district, on simple natural phenomena, and the telling of nature stories, there should be developed a definite course of lessons for the standard classes, leading naturally to the study of elementary experimental science in Standards V and VI. Everything should be done to create and foster in the child a real living interest in his natural environment, and to turn his attention to the land and its products. Wherever possible, in town or country, gardens should be attached to every school. Nature knowledge acquired in the primary school should lead to the study of elementary agriculture as taught in the rural courses of the district high schools, and so on to the more advanced work of the agricultural colleges. In teachers' training colleges all students should take a course of study in nature knowledge, men taking more advanced work, while women should devote part of their time to domestic science. 15. Handwork. —The degree of interest taken in this subject varies very much in different districts. According to the departmental report for 1911, only 22 per cent, of the schools in the Grey District took any course in handwork, while in Southland 98 per cent, of the schools claimed capitation for the teaching of some branch of this work. In some districts it was ascertained that in order to attend cookery and woodwork centres, children and teachers were obliged to travel long distances by train or coach, and that in some cases they were away from their homes for twelve or thirteen hours in a day. Your Commissioners were impressed with the fact that while so many men and women on the staffs of our primary schools have qualified by examination as teachers of woodwork or cookery, only in rare cases have their services been utilized. Where provision is not made for the teaching of woodwork or cookery in their own school, it is recommended that children should not be required to travel distances necessitating absence from their homes for more than six hours in a day. 16. Lessons in Health. —The list of subjects in the present syllabus seems sufficient, but it is suggested that on every school time-table " Lessons on Health " should find a place, and that Inspectors should be directed to see that the lessons are really given, and that the children have profited by them. It is further suggested that in reference to temperance, the following subjects be added to the list: " Alcoholic beverages and their action on the body; moral evils of intemperance; what intemperance costs." Your Commissioners are pleased to know that the Government have recognized the great importance of attention to health generally by making provision for the medical inspection of school-children. It is further recommended that at each of the four training colleges arrangements be made for the giving by qualified dentists of courses of lectures on the proper care of the teeth. Recordcards of physical development should be kept in every school. Boards of Education should be enabled to insist on medical and dental attendance where necessary ; to pay for the attendance where the parents cannot do so ; and to compel payment where they will not. In recasting the syllabus it is recommended that the requirements should be set out in as simple a form as possible ; that the course of study prescribed for country
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schools should be less exacting than that for large schools ; and that all suggestions in connection with the treatment of subjects, and all regulations dealing with the inspection and examination of schools, be printed in separate pamphlets. The number of term examinations in primary schools should be reduced from 4hree to two per annum. The Kindergarten. There is a consensus of opinion that the training afforded by the kindergarten is not only the best form of infant education, but is the basis of true technical education. Several of the witnesses who are public-school teachers have cordially indorsed the claim of the Managers of the free kindergartens in the large centres of the Dominion that the child who passes from the kindergarten into the infant classes of the State school is better prepared for the standard work than the child who has not had the advantage of preliminary kindergarten instruction. Furthermore, the boy who has gone through a proper kindergarten course is better equipped for the elementary manual training-classes of the primary school than the boy who has not attended a kindergarten, inasmuch as he possesses not only a prepared mind but prepared hands as well, and his powers of observation have been greatly quickened. The establishment of properly equipped kindergarten departments in the four training colleges and the proposal to give in these institutions portions of a systematized course of training for the students of the State-assisted free kindergartens indicate that the time is approaching when the kindergarten should constitute the initial step of the education ladder of the Dominion. Whenever Education Boards deem it advisable to establish kindergartens in connection with the primary schools in the large centres all infants should be taught therein until at least six years of age. Capitation should be paid at the same rate as to the kindergarten associations. In the meantime, the State may well continue its assistance to the several free kindergarten associations in the Dominion. Education of Girls. There is evidence to show that the present primary and secondary education system presses with undue severity on girls between the ages of twelve and seventeen years. It is suggested that this evil might be reduced by a judicious extension of the system of accrediting, by differentiating in the school-work required of girls and boys, by greater prominence being given to the domestic-science course, and by limiting the amount of homework set in the secondary schools. Sex Physiology. Evidence has been given upon the question of teaching sexual physiology to the older boys and girls in our primary and secondary schools. The general opinion appears to be that something of the kind should be undertaken, but there is much diversity of view as to when and by whom this instruction should be given. The Commission agrees that advice should be imparted to all boys and girls at some time before they finally leave school—preferably by parents, but in view of the fact that such necessary instruction is too often neglected by parents, the Commission recommends that teachers should be enjoined to adopt a form of lecture such as has been suggested by Dr. Home (M.D., Ch.M., Edinburgh, and D.Ph., London), whose evidence appears in the Appendix to this report; but, better still, every head teacher should, where practicable, deal personally and sympathetically with each individual pupil. And we would direct special attention to the evidence on this point given by the Principal of the Girls' College at Wanganui, where Miss Cruickshank has arranged for a series of excellent lecturettes by a medical lady of experience and sound judgment. Scholarships and Free Places. The present system of awarding Junior National Scholarships and Education Board Scholarships, and the present Certificates of Proficiency and Certificates of Competency examinations should be abolished. One examination at least equal to the present Free Place examination should be held in December in each year ; free places to high schools, to technical day schools, or to district high schools should be
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awarded to those candidates who gain not fewer than 50 per cent, of the marks obtainable in that examination, and all pupils who do not so qualify, or who do not elect to take advantage of such free place should be required to attend at a continuation or technical or agricultural school, provided that attendance shall not be compulsory unless such school is within a radius of four miles for day and three miles for evening classes. In the case of schools approved by the Inspectoral Board of the education district, the head teacher should be allowed to " accredit " his pupils for free places at a high school, provided that this right may be withdrawn in the event of it being shown that the power of " accrediting " has been exercised injudiciously. The money saved by the abolition of scholarships should be expended in the direction of providing a further number of boarding-allowances for holders of free places residing in the country and compelled to live away from home in order to take advantage of their free places. It is further recommended that the parents of children entering upon a secondary-school course should be required to undertake that such children will attend regularly at the secondary school for a period of at least two years. . School Buildings and Playgrounds. Your Commission at each of the centres visited inspected as many schools as possible in order to note by personal observation the style of building, the method of fighting, ventilation, heating, sanitation, &c. In several districts, notably Auckland, Wanganui, and North Canterbury, the latest primary-school buildings are excellent in design, lighting, and ventilation, but a number of the schools were by no means up to the standard to be desired, especially when it is remembered that they were all large schools. To ensure improvement in this respect, your Commission suggests that the architects to the proposed five Education Boards should confer at regular intervals in order to consider and discuss matters relating to the design of school buildings. It is further suggested that all plans for proposed new buildings should be approved by the Health Department in regard to lighting, ventilation, &c. In large schools, particularly in the southern districts where the climate is rigorous, it would be in the interest of economy to instal a central heating-system in place of the expensive and wasteful method of open fires. In regard to school furniture, it was a matter of surprise to find that in some districts the old-fashioned long desks, together with forms without backs, accommodating as many as ten pupils, are still in common use. These should be replaced as soon as possible by dual or single desks. Schools should not be used for such purposes as socials, dances, polling-booths, &c, where other suitable buildings are available. The cost of installing sewerage at schools should be made a charge upon the New Buildings Account. The neglect of the provision of playground accommodation at many of the city schools was forcibly impressed upon the Commission at all the large centres visited, and, as the health of the children should be the concern of the local authorities, it would be a wise thing to provide for assistance from them towards this object. In future, no grant should be given, for the erection of a school unless at least four acres of land are available for the site. Consolidation of Schools. Much evidence was received in favour of what is known as the " consolidated school," the name by whch the unit resulting from the union of two or more country schools is known. Consolidated schools have been established during recent years in many of the States of America and, coming nearer home, in New South Wales, in almost every case with the best possible results. From the report submitted by an Education Commission recently set up by the Legislature of Wisconsin, the following remarks on this subject are quoted,— " The larger country school represents the chief need for the reform of rural education. The isolated, one-room country school is bound under the necessities of modern life to pass away. . . . The advantages of a consolidated school have been demonstrated in too many States
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and under too many conditions to be open to debate. From the standpoint of administration, finance, general education, and agricultural training, the enlarged school shows the way out of many of the present difficulties. It. makes possible the construction of artistic modern buildings, properly heated, ventilated, lighted, equipped, adequately provided with sanitary arrangements, pure drinking water, &c. ; in fact, just the necessities of the modern school which the one-room district school does not have, and never has had. More important than these obvious advantages, the consolidated school provides for overcoming the inherent difficulty of the rural school, namely, the attempt to instruct by one teacher six- to sixteen-year-old pupils." Additional advantages to be looked for from the consolidation of schools are, — (a.) The per capita cost is lessened; (b.) The average daily attendance is increased ; (c.) The pupils remain at school for a much longer time ; (d.) The teaching-time is increased and the time devoted to home-work is diminished ; (c.) Better salaries are paid and hence more highly qualified teachers are employed; (/.) The schools are better supervised ; and (g.) Better material equipment is provided as regards buildings, libraries, heating, and sanitation. Many of the Education Boards have supplied the Commission with maps of their districts and names of the country schools which in their opinion might be consolidated. It is evident that the experiment might be tried with every prospect of success in a considerable number of cases throughout the Dominion, and it is strongly recommended that an attempt at consolidation should be made forthwith. In addition to the consolidation of primary schools in country districts, it is further recommended that district high schools be combined wherever possible. With reasonable co-operation on the part of the railway authorities something might be done in this direction. Facilities for Attending Schools. The Commission regrets that there appears to be little tendency on the part of the Railway Department to provide special facilities for the conveyance of pupils to primary, secondary, and technical schools. Considering the importance of education to the community this attitude is, to say the least, somewhat strange. In many cases a slight rearrangement of the time-table or the addition of a carriage to a goods-train would result in great benefit to those pupils who cannot get the required instruction in the locality in which they live. Cases could be mentioned where there would be no extra cost to the Railway Department or inconvenience to the travelling public by adopting such a course, but existing departmental systems Would appear to be a serious obstacle to a good understanding on these points. Free School-books. Witnesses were unanimous in their disapproval of the system of supplying free school-books. It was stated that in some cases between eighty and ninety per cent, of the pupils purchased their own book, and that teachers found difficulty in providing storage space for the books provided by the State but unused by the children. It is recommended that the grant under this head be discontinued, and that a portion of the money be spent on supplementary readers and books for school libraries. The amount spent by the Department last year was about £10,000. Rewards for Zeal. The Boards of Education should be encouraged to nominate periodically one Inspector, or one primary-school teacher, or one secondary-school teacher, or one technical-school teacher, who, in recognition of zeal shown in his or her work, shall, if the Council see fit, be given one year's leave on full pay, for the purpose of studying the schemes of national education in force in other parts of the world.
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Private Schools. ' In regard to private schools, it is recommended that section 151 of the Act be amended so that the clause beginning " The head teacher of such school may apply for "shall read " The head teacher of such school shall apply for." It should also be a condition precedent to the exemption of these schools that the equipment, buildings, playgrounds, sanitation, &c, are at least equal to those obtaining at the State schools in the locality. It is recommended that no State aid be granted to any secondary school that is not under the control of an Education Board. Correspondence Schools. In the opinion of the Commission legislation should be introduced for the registration of all schools of correspondence, whether local or foreign, within the Dominion. Superannuation. The matter of increasing the allowance payable under the Superannuation Act to widows has been brought under the notice of the Commission ; but it is thought to be a question for the Actuary and the contributors. It is recommended that the Actuary be asked to ascertain the amount of increased contribution required from men in order to secure for widows an allowance of £26 per year, instead of £18 as at present; and that when this is obtained a referendum of male contributors to the fund be taken as to their willingness to contribute the additional amount required. Members of the Education service who did not elect to become contributors to the Superannuation Fund before the coming into operation of the amending Act of 1908 were permanently shut out from the benefits of the fund. Under the original Act they had the right to become contributors without loss of back service, whenever they found themselves financially able to comply with the conditions imposed by the Superannuation Board. This right was withdrawn, without notice, and much hardship has therefore been inflicted on many old and faithful servants of the State. The Education Committee of the House has twice recommended that a further opportunity should be given for teachers and others permanently employed on the Ist January, 1906, to become original members of the fund. Your Commission indorses this recommendation, and suggests that legislation be enacted giving the persons referred to above the right to become original members of the fund on payment of back contributions, together with interest on such contributions calculated at the rate of 5 per cent, per annum. This privilege should be available for a limited period only—say, one year. It is also recommended that retiring-allowances be paid on the three best years of salary, or on the last three years, at the option of the contributors. Compulsory Attendance. It was pointed out in evidence that there were a number of defects in the compulsory sections of the Education Act, including the provision in section 152, which allows seven days to elapse before a parent who fails to send his child to school is liable to a fine, the c6hflict between the minimum age of employees under the Factories Act and the maximum compulsory age for school-attendance, the prevalence of the employment of children of school-age during school-hours, and the want of power to commit habitual truants to an industrial school at an earlier age than that prescribed. Children and Street Trading. Evidence was given at Dunedin showing that there is a tendency to employ lads at times and occupations that interfere with their proper instruction at school, and the attention of the Commission was drawn to the steps taken by the London County Council to prevent children of educable age being withdrawn from school during schooltime, or employed in duties that do not allow them to "receive the full benefit of the primary course. A similar state of things has been revealed in other parts of the Dominion. It is recommended that section 153 of the Education Act be amended in the direction of making employers equally liable with parents in such cases.
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The Commission would also direct attention to the bad habits engendered by young children of both sexes being allowed to loiter about the streets at night or gather in the neighbourhood of theatres, picture-shows, &c, at hours when they should be in their homes or in their beds. This is an evil of such magnitude that if it is not coped with and minimized, the results must be disastrous to the morality of the community. The Commissioners wish to acknowledge the courtesy of the Education Boards in providing accommodation for the sittings of the Commission, and the trouble taken by their officers to facilitate the inquiries necessary to the due carrying-out of the investigation enjoined by the order of reference. The Inspector-General of Schools (Mr. G. Hogben, M.A.) rendered the Commission valuable service. The Secretary to the Commission (Mr. F. K. de Castro) proved especially valuable and efficient in performing his exacting secretarial duties, and well earned the gratitude of the individual members of the Commission. In witness whereof we have hereunto set our hands and seals this thirty-first day of July, in the year one thousand nine hundred and twelve. Mark Cohen, Chairman. William Davidson. James Robert Kirk. Fred. Pirani. Hugh Poland. John Charles Thomson. Thomas Umfrey Wells.
MINORITY REPORT.
It is with extreme regret that I find it necessary to differ so much from my colleagues on the Commission as to find it necessary to add a Minority Report to the very comprehensive statement of the faults and requirements of the education system. The main points in which I differ from the conclusions of a bare majority of my colleagues are two—namely, the setting-up of an Advisory Council of Education, and the absence of a recommendation for the election of Education Boards and School Boards under the system of proportional representation. Apart from the unweildy proportions of a Council of Education, it is my opinion that no genuine reform is possible in the administration of education unless there is real control by the people from the official head of the Department down to the School Committees. My proposal was for a Council, consisting of the Minister and seven members, the latter to hold office for five years and to give their services entirely to the work of the Council. The seven members to be appointed or elected as follows : — Two (one of whom should be the Director of Education) to be appointed by the Minister ; Two to be elected by the members of the five Education Boards ; Two to be elected by the certificated teachers (one from the North Island and one from the South Island) ; and One to be elected by the School Inspectors. The duties of the Council to include the control of the whole system of primary, secondary, and technical education, and to meet at least once every two months. In the event of any one actively employed in educational work being appointed to the Council, his or her salary, rights, and privileges to be conserved. Such salaries to be paid to the members of the Council as Parliament may decide. Members of the Council could specialize in different branches of education, and their united conferences should make for considerable benefit to the administration of our education system. The Council should be intrusted with the control of the funds voted by Parliament for education, subject only to the veto of the Minister of Education. The Inspectorate and grading of teachers for Dominion promotion should be under the control of the Council. One Chief Inspector should be attached to the staff of each Education Board as a Superintendent of Education in the respective education districts. (Sgd.) Fred. Pirani, Wellington, 31st July, 1912.
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MINUTES OF PKOCEEDINGS.
WELLINGTON. Friday. 31st May, 1912. , The Commission met at 11 a.m. in the Parliamentary Library Building. Present: Mr. M. Cohen (in the chair), Messrs. W. Davidson, J. R. Kirk, F. Pirani, J. C. Thomson, and T. U. Wells. Mr. H. Poland was unavoidably absent. The Honourable the Minister of Education extended a welcome to the Commissioners. The Chairman thanked the Minister for his welcome, and stated that probably an extension of time in which to report would be asked for. The Inspector-General of Schools (Mr. G. Hogben) was present as representative of the Education Department. The Commission was read by the Secretary. Resolved : (a) That the proceedings of the Commission be open to the Press and public ; (b) that a sub-committee be set up to report as to the witnesses who should be asked to attend to give evidence ; (c) that the evidence of witnesses be taken on oath or by affirmation. The Inspector-General of Schools gave evidence. The Commission rose at 5.15 p.m.
Saturday, Ist June, 1912. The Commission resumed at 10 a.m., there being present Messrs. Cohen (Chairman), Davidson Kirk, Thomson, and Wells. Messrs. Pirani and Poland were absent on leave. It was decided to make representations to the Hon. the Minister of Education for leave to visit the following towns, in addition to those named in the order of reference—viz., New Plymouth. Wanganui, Napier, Blenheim, Nelson, Greymouth, Hokitika, Timaru, and Invercargill. The Inspector-General of Schools continued his evidence. The Commission rose at 11.20 a.m.
AUCKLAND. Tuesday, 4th June, 1912. The Commission met at the offices of the Auckland Education Board at 10.45 a.m., all the Com missioners being present. The Secretary of the Board, in the absence of the Chairman, who was engaged elsewhere", welcomed the Commission to Auckland, and placed the Board-room and offices at the disposal of the Commission. The Inspector-General continued his evidence, and Mr. E. C. Mulgan, Chief Inspector of Schools in the Auckland District, was examined at length, the Commission adjourning at 5.25 p.m.
Wednesday, sth June, 1912. The Commission resumed at 9.30 a.m., all the Commissioners being present. Mr. Mulgan continued his evidence, and the following witnesses were examined : Messrs. R. Campbell and N. R. McKenzie, together with Misses E. Simpson and M. S. Newman, on behalf of the Auckland District Educational Institute ; Mr. F. H. Brown (president of the Auckland Assistant Masters' Association). The Commission rose at 6 p.m.
Thursday, 6th June, 1912. The Commission resumed at 9.30 a.m., all the Commissioners being present. Evidence was given by Mr. H. D. J. Mahon, on behalf of the assistant masters of the Auckland Grammar School; by Bishop Cleary, on behalf of the Roman Catholic diocese of Auckland ; by Mr. FT. A. E. Miln.es, Principal of the Auckland Training College ; by Mr. W. O. Lamb president of the Auckland Country Teachers' Association ; by Mr. P. G. Andrew, secretary of the Poverty Bay School Committees' Association ; and by Mr. R. E. Rudman, Principal of the Thames High School. .Written statements were received from Messrs. C. C. Howard, T. Vivian, and A H Vile, and jointly from representatives of various School Committees in the Thames district. The Commission rose at 6 p.m.
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Friday, 7th June, 1912. The whole of the morning was devoted to visiting schools in and around Auckland, and at the Town Hall the Commissioners were tendered an official reception by His Worship the Mayor (Mr. C. J. Parr). In the afternoon (all the Commissioners being present) the following witnesses were examined : Messrs E. C. Purdie and H. G. Cousins, and Mrs. S. A. Moore-Jones. Written statements were received from Mr. C. H. Mellsop, the Rev. W. E. Lush, and the hon. secretary of the Secondary Schools Association. The Commission rose at 6 p.m.
Saturday, Bth June, 1912. The Commission resumed at 10 a.m., all the Commissioners being present. Miss Butler and Mr. J. W. Tibbs were examined. Written statements were received from Messrs. R. A. Armstrong and H. J. Prior. The Commission rose at noon.
Monday, 10th June, 1912. The Commission resumed at 9-30 a.m., all the members being present. The following witnesses gave evidence—viz., Messrs. R. Crowe, T. W. Leys, F. E. N. Gaudin. E. W. Payton, George George, and G. J. Garland (Chairman of the Education Board). Communications were received from Mr. G. A. Rawson and the Auckland Educational Institute, while the Minister of Education forwarded copies of resolutions from the Taranaki and Grey District Educational Institutes urging that the Commission should visit New Plymouth and Greymouth respectively. The Commission adjourned at 6.30 p.m.
Tuesday, 11th June, 1912. The Commission resumed at 9.30 a.m., all the Commissioners attending save Mr. Poland, to whom leave had been given. Evidence was tendered by Messrs. S. Lamb, H. Wallace, G. L. Peacocke, F. Heaton, E. C. Banks, C. J. Parr, and J. Farrell, also by Mrs. M. W. Myers. Votes of thanks were passed to the Auckland Education Board, to the Auckland Educational Institute, and to the reporters of the local Press. The Commission rose at 4 p.m.
DUNEDIN. Friday, 14th June, 1912. The Commission resumed at the office of the Otago Education Board in Dunedin, assembling at 9.30 a.m. All the Commissioners were present. It was resolved to make application to the Minister for an extension of time for one month in which to report. The following witnesses were examined : Professor 1). R. White, Messrs. P. Goyen, A. Marshall, and G. W. Macdonald. Written statements were received from Messrs. G. Wilson, T. Isemonger, and J. W. Tibbs. The Commission rose at 5.45 p.m.
Saturday, 15th June, 1912. The Commission met at 9.30 a.m., all the Commissioners being present. The Secretary notified the receipt of a supplementary Commission empowering the Commissioners to visit two places in addition to those named in the original Commission, but they must be agricultural districts. .Evidence was given by Miss F. ML. Allan, and by Messrs. E. Pinder, W. M'Elrea, W. S. Fitzgerald, and Thomas Scott. The Commission rose at 12.45 p.m.
Monday, 17th June, 1912. The Commission resumed at 9.30 a.m., all the Commissioners being present. The following witnesses gave evidence : Messrs. F. Milner, W. J. Morrell, S. M. Park, C. R. Richardson, R. Ferguson, and J. H. Wilkinson (the two last mentioned representing the Dunedin and Suburban Schools Committees' Association). A written statement was furnished by Mr. O. D. Flamank. The Commission adjourned at 5.15 p.m.
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Tuesday, 18th June, 1912. The Commission resumed at 10 a.m., all the Commissioners being present. The following witnesses gave evidence : Mrs. R. S. Reynolds (in committee), Miss F. J. Ross, Messrs. P. G. Pryde, J. B. Waters, T. J. Walker (in committee), J. E. Ryan (also in committee), C. R. Bossence, G. C. Israel. . . Mr. A. Marshall was re-examined. Written statements were received from Messrs. W. S. Fitzgerald, D. S. B. Squire, T. A. Wallace, and the secretary of the Waitaki High Schools Board. The Commission rose at 5.45 p.m.
Wednesday, 19th June, 1912. The Commission resumed at 9.30 a.m., and all the Commissioners were present. The following witnesses gave evidence : Miss L. Kelsey, Messrs. A. M. Barnett and James Mitchell. A written statement was received from Mrs. R. S. Reynolds. The Commissioners visited a number of the City and suburban schools, and, before separating, passed votes of thanks to the Otago Education Board and the Press. The Commission rose at noon.
INVERCARGILL. Thursday, 20th June, 1912. The _ Commission met at 9.30 a.m. in the offices of the Southland Education Board, all the Commissioners being present. The following witnesses gave evidence : Miss H. Birss, Messrs. J. C. Smith, A. McNeil, D. McNeil, J. Hendry, J. Hunter, A. Inglis, and J. Ham. A written statement was received from Dr. R. Church, of Dunedin. The Commission rose at 6 p.m.
Friday, 21st June, 1912. The Commission resumed at 9.30 a.m., all the Commissioners being present. The following witnesses were examined : Misses N. Jobson, E. Howes, and M. D. Steel (the lastnamed in committee), Messrs. T. D. Pearce, W. Macallister, J. Neill, J. Moody, O. Duff, and W. A. McCaw, also Dr. D. E. Hansen. Written statements were received from Messrs. E. Marryatt and A. W. Tyndall, and jointly from three women assistants of the Southland Girls' High School. During the 'afternoon the Commission paid a visit of inspection to some of the city and suburban schools, and also visited the Technical College. The Commission rose at 9.30 p.m.
Saturday, 22nd June, 1912. Some of the Commission visited the Riverton district. Votes of thanks were accorded to the Southland Education Board and to the representatives of the local Press.
DUNEDIN. Monday, 24th June, 1912. The Commission resumed at 9.30 a.m., all the Commissioners being present, except Mr. J. C Thomson, M.P., who was absent on leave. The evidence was taken of His Lordship the Primate of New Zealand and of the Dean of Dunedin the Commission rising at 10 a.m.
CHRISTCHURCH. Tuesday, 25th June, 1912. The Commission met at 9.30 a.m. at the office of the North Canterbury Education Board, all the Commissioners (except Mr. Thomson, M.P., on leave) being present. The Secretary notified the receipt of a supplementary Commission extending the time for reporting till 25th July, 1912. The following witnesses gave evidence : Messrs. M. Dalziel (Chairman of the North Canterbury Education Board), T. W. Adams, T. S. Forster, H. Bignell (Chairman of the Grey Education Board) T. G. Malcolm, W. Brock, and C. D. Hardie. Written statements were received from Mr. L. B. Wood, the president of the Women's Christian Temperance Union at Stratford, the Westland Education Board, and the, Gisborne branch of the Hawke's Bay District Educational Institute. The Commission rose at 6 p.m.
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Wednesday, 26th June, 1912. The Commission resumed at 9.30 a.m., all the Commissioners being present. - The following witnesses were examined : Miss E. Chaplin, Messrs. L. F. de Berry, T. R. Cresswell J. W. McGregor, E. U. Just, F. Evans, F. Alley, and J. Caughley. A written statement was received from Mr. W. Aiken. The Commission rose at 5.35 p.m.
Thursday, 27th June, 1912. In the forenoon the Commission visited a number of schools in and around Christchurch, and resumed sitting in the afternoon, when all the Commissioners were present. The following witnesses were examined : Mrs. Langford and Messrs. J. McCullough, J. Weir, Si. li. Andrews, H. C. Lane, and J. H. Howell. The Commission rose at 6.10 p.m.
Friday, 28th June, 1912. The Commission resumed at 9.30 a.m., all the Commissioners being present except Messrs. Poland and Thomson who had to leave for Wellington to attend their parliamentary duties. The following witnesses gave evidence : Misses M. V. Gibson and M. Shirtclifie, the Rev. E. J. Bernstein and Messrs. C. T. Aschman, G. Scott, R. Herdman-Smith, A. Haslett, A. Bell, G. Penlmgton, G. T. Booth, J. A. Blank, C. E. Bevan-Brown, and D. Lumsden. Mr. J. H. Howell was further examined. The Commission rose at 6 p.m.
Saturday, 29th June, 1912. The Commission resumed at 9.30 a.m., all the Commissioners being present except Messrs. Poland and Thomson, who were engaged on parliamentary duties. The following witnesses gave evidence : Miss M. F. L. Olhver, and Messrs. G. Dalglish, J. A. Valentine, M. McLeod, and J. C. Adams (Chairman, Board of Governors of Canterbury College). Mr. H. C. Lane was further examined. Votes of thanks were accorded to the North Canterbury Education Board and to the representatives of the local Press. The Commission rose at 1.30 p.m.
WANGANUI. Tuesday, 2nd July, 1912. The Commission met at 9.30 a.m. at the Technical College, all the Commissioners being present except Messrs. Poland and Thomson. The following witnesses gave evidence : Messrs. W. A. Armour, E. Crow, U 1. Cox, hi. H. UarJf, D. McFarlane (chairman, Chamber of Commerce), D. Seaward, L. J. Watkin, J. Aitken, and J. K. ' W Written statements were received from: Messrs. C. H. Gilby, H. G. Wake, J. T. Stewart, and L Watson, Rev. O'Bryan Hoare, Canterbury Centre of Royal Life-saving Society, Canterbury and West Coast Centre St. John's Ambulance Association, Grey District Educational Institute, Ashburton Technical Classes Association, and the Eltham District High School Committee. The Commission rose at 5.40 p.m.
Wednesday, 3rd July, 1912. The Commission resumed at 9.30 a.m., when all the Commissioners were present except The following witnesses gave evidence : Mrs. M. Woolf, Rev. J. D. McKenzie, Messrs. W. M. Luxford, L. Cohen, J. Grant, R. A. & Browne, O. A. Banner, F. A. Bates, D. W. Low, F. A. Tyrer, T. H. Battle, J. E. Vernon, and W. Martin. Written statements were received from Mr. F. C. Bellrmger and the New Plymouth High School Board. The Commission rose at 6.30 p.m.
Thursday, 4th July, 1912. In the forenoon the Commission yisited a number of schools in and around Wanganui. On resuming all the Commissioners were present except Messrs. Poland and Thomson. The following witnesses gave evidence : Miss C. M. Cruickshank, Messrs. Trimble (representative of Taranaki Education Board), G. D. Braik (Chief Inspector of Schools, Wanganui), and W. Bruce (representative of Wanganui Schools Committee Association, and Brother Basil (of Marist Brothers School). The Commission rose at 6.30 p.m.
Friday, sth July, 1912. In the forenoon the Commission visited a number of other schools in and around Wanganui. On resuming all the Commissioners were present except Messrs. Poland and Thomson.
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The following witnesses gave evidence : Messrs. A. Varney, W. H. Swanger, W. Andrews, and W. Lee-Martin. Mr. G. D. Braik was further examined. Written statements were received from Dr. G. Home and Mr. G. T. Palmer. Votes of thanks were accorded to the Education Board and to the representatives of the local Press.
WELLINGTON. Monday, Bth July, 1912. The Commission met in the Education Board's office at 9.30 a.m., all the Commissioners being present. The following witnesses gave evidence : Messrs. A. S. Aldrich, R. Lee (Chairman of the Wellington Education Board), T. R. Fleming (Chief Inspector of Schools), F. H. Bakewell, J. S. Tennant, W. S. La Trobe, W. Forster, G. MacMorran, and J. C. Webb. Written statements were received from Miss V. M. Greig (principal of the Girls' High School at Napier); Messrs. F. Bowler, S. H. Macky, and J. H. Turner: also from the Canterbur}? Women's Institute. The Commission rose at 6.10 p.m.
Tuesday, 9th July, 1912. The Commission resumed at 9.30 a.m., all the members being present. The following witnesses gave evidence : Mrs. T. H. Gill, Misses E. Helyer, D. Fitch, N. E. Coad. C. Freeman, and J. A. Finlayson; also by Messrs. A. A. Hintz, J. H. Warboys, C. Watson, and S. Duncan, and the Hons. J. Anstey and J. Barr. The Commission rose at 5.10 p.m.
Wednesday, 10th July, 1912. The Commission met at 9.30 a.m., all the Commissioners attending. The following witnesses gave evidence : Messrs. H. A. Parkinson, E. S. Hylton, j. Haughey, and D. A. Strauchon ; also Professors Hunter and Laby and Dr. Frengley. Written statements were received from Messrs. A. S. M. Poison, F. C. J. Cockburn, and 0. A. Eves, Dr. Innes, the Grey District Educational Institute, the Marlborough School Committees Association, the Napier branch of the Hawke's Bay Educational Institute, as well as from the Principal of the Wanganui Collegiate School (the Rev. Mr. Dove). The Commission rose at 6 p.m.
Thursday, 11th July, 1912. The Commission resumed at 9.30 a.m., all the Commissioners being present. The following witnesses gave evidence : Miss M. McLean (Principal of the Giris' High School at Wellington); Rev. Dr. Kennedy (Rector of St. Patrick's College) ; Brother Justin (of the Marist Brothers); Messrs. H. Baillie, F. G. Gibbs, A. Heine (Acting Principal of the Boys' College), A. de Bathe Brandon (Chairman of the Board of Governors, Wellington College) ; the Chief Justice (Sir Robert Stout), and the Secretary for Education (Sir E. O. Gibbes). Written statements were received from Miss E. Chaplin, Messrs. R. Thomas, W. Kerr, and J. A. Duffy, as well as from the Rev. J. H. Mackenzie (Nelson). The Commission rose at 6 p.m.
Friday, 12th July, 1912. The Commission resumed at 9.30 a.m., all the Commissioners being present. The following witnesses gave evidence : Miss M. Lorimer (Principal of the Girls' College at Nelson), Messrs. George Crawshaw- (Secretary of the Hawke's Bay Education Board), H. L. Fowler (Principal of the Boys' College at Nelson), Dr. H. J. McLean (representative of the Wellington division of the New Zealand Medical Association), the Rev. W. J. Comrie, and Mr. W. T. Mills (U.S.A.). Dr. Truby King gave evidence, which was taken in camera. Written statements were received from the Chairman of the Taranaki Education Board Mrs. J. H. Probyn, and Messrs. M. C. Mackay and A. G. Thompson. The Commission rose at 5.45 p.m.
Saturday, 13th July, 1912. The Commission resumed at 9.30 a.m., all the Commissioners attending. Written statements were received from the North Canterbury Headmasters' Association, from Professors H. McKenzie and J. M. E. Garrow; Mr. K. J. McLennan, and Messrs. M. Barnett and L. F. Watkins (jointly on behalf of the Wellington Society of Professional Musicians); also from Mr. C. J. Cooke. The Commission adjourned (by arrangement) to the concert-room at the Town Hall, where Dr. Truby King resumed his evidence and explained by diagrams what beneficial effects on the human frame would result from a proper study of the laws relating to health. The Commission rose at 12.30 p.m.
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Monday, 15th July, 1912. The Commission resumed at 9.30 a.m.. all the Commissioners being present except Mr. Poland, to whom leave had been given. The following witnesses were examined : Misses E. M. Rowley and L. Roberts; Messrs. G. L. Stewart, A. C. Gilford and R. Darroch ; also Major-General Godley and Colonel Heard. Messrs. W. T. Mills, W. S. La Trobe, and A. Heine were recalled and further examined. The Commission rose at 5.10 p.m.
Tuesday, 16th July, 1912. The Commission resumed at 9 a.m., all the Commissioners being present, except Mr. Poland (on leave). Correspondence was received from the Auckland District Educational Institute per the Auckland Education Board, the Women's Christian Temperance Union at Christchurch, the Moral and Physical Health Society of Wellington, and Mr. S. Botting. The Commission visited a number of schools in Wellington City and suburbs. The Commission rose at 5.30 p.m.
Wednesday, 17th July, 1912. The Commission resumed at 9.30 a.m., all the Commissioners being present. Statements were received from Messrs. J. Fuller, jim., H. R. Fisher, G. M. Henderson, and J. W. M. Harrison. The following witnesses gave evidence : The Rev. J. Dawson and Dr. R. 0. Whyte (representing the New Zealand Alliance), also Professor T. H. Easterfield. The Inspector-General of Schools resumed his evidence. The Commission rose at 5 p.m.
Thursday, 18th July, 1912. The Commission resumed at 9.30 a.m., all the Commissioners being present. The following witnesses gave evidence : Dr. Pickerill and Messrs. J. N. Rishworth and W. R. Hursthouse (representing the New Zealand Dental Association), and Captain A. C. C. Stevens. The Commission rose at 5 p.m.
Friday, 19th July, 1912. The Commission resumed at 9.30 a.m., all the Commissioners being present. Written statements were received from Messrs. G. Sims and R. H. Dodd, the secretary of the National Peace Society at Christchurch, and from the secretary of the Wellington Branch of the NavyLeague. The Inspector-General of Schools continued and concluded his evidence. It was resolved to apply to the Minister for an extension of time (till the 31st instant) in which to prepare the Commission's report. .The Commission rose at 5.30 p.m.
Saturday, 20th July, 1912. The Commission resumed at 10 a.m., all the Commissioners being present. Written statements were received from Messrs. J. S. Small (Auckland) and G. H. Maunder. Votes of thanks were passed to the Wellington Education Board and to the representatives of the local Press. The Commission adjourned at 12.15 p.m.
Monday, 22nd July, 1912. The Commission met at 9.30 a.m. at the Parliamentary Buildings, ail the Commissioners being present. Correspondence was received from the Southland District Educational Institute, Mr. W. A. Harding, and from Mr. G. W. Forbes, M.P., covering a communication from Mr. J. R. Wilkinson. The Commission went into committee, resumed, and adjourned at 5.10 p.m. From Tuesday, 23rd July, to Tuesday, 30th July, the Commission was engaged in Committee considering its report. Communications were received from the Minister, extending the time till 31st July and forwarding a letter from Major Robb, of Onehunga. A letter was received from Mr. G. S. Hill (on behalf of the Life-saving Society, Wellington), and another from Mr. E. Macdonald.
Wednesday, 31st July, 1912. The Commission met at 9.30 a.m., all the Commissioners, except Mr. Pirani (to whom leave had been given), being present. The report was finally adopted, and it was resolved to present it to the Minister at 5.30 p.m., which was accordingly done, and His Excellency's commissions returned.
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MINUTES OF EVIDENCE.
Wellington, Friday, 31st Mat, 1912. George Hogben examined on oath. (No. 1.) 1. The Chairman.} What is your official position? —I am Master of Arts, University of Cambridge, and a Fellow of the Geological Society. I am Inspector-General of Schools, and head of the Education Department of New Zealand. I have the order of reference of the Commission, and it seems to me I may spend a good deal of the time of the Commission unnecessarily by going through all these headings. I have looked through them, and in regard to some of them it would perhaps save the time of the Commission if, instead of giving in full any views of my own or even the facts in regard to them, I submitted myself to examination by the Commission. As to the first heading—"The cost of State education in respect to primary, manual, technical, and secondary; and its relation to efficiency." First, as regards cost. This is set out so fully in the tables that are given in E.-l in the hands of every member of the Commission that I shall only indicate briefly where to find them. In E.-l, on page 59 and the succeeding pages, there are certain tables. Three of these tables are given in graphic form. The two summaries to which I should call special attention are in the table called Nl. That gives the expenditure on education in New Zealand for the year 1910-11 —that is, the absolute expenditure on education under public control. It is divided under the heads, " Maintenance " (which includes maintenance of buildings —all maintenance) and " New Buildings and Additions." These give the total cost out of public funds, and the public funds out of which it comes are the Consolidated Fund and the Public Works Fund. Then, out of income from reserves, in the 4th column, the amounts allotted to the several departments of education are shown. The income from reserves includes the school reserves that were under the School Commissioners until April of last year, and are now under the Land Boards. These school reserves are primary and secondary. In the case of primary, they are divided among the several Boards in proportion to the population of each education district— that is, according to the Education Amendment Act, 1910, section 2, subsection (6), paragraph (a). In the case of secondary reserves, they are divided under paragraph (b) of the same section and subsection among the secondary schools in proportion to the number of pupils in average attendance at the several secondary schools. The primary and secondary schools, therefore, are the only schools that get any benefit from these education reserves. 2. Are the receipts from these reserves lumped together?—No, they are separate reserves for each district —that is, practically, each land district. The land districts are, roughly, coterminous with the provincial districts as they were reconstituted. The other reserves are the national endowments, which produce about £46,000 a year. Under the present law the revenue is to be used in reduction of the charges on the consolidated revenue. The only effect, therefore, is to reduce those charges from the point of view of national book-keeping. That is the effect of the primary reserves also, because the revenue from the primary reserves is handed over to the Education Boards, and the same amount is deducted from the statutory grants. There is not the same effect in the case of the secondary reserves, which I will mention presently. The revenue from the national endowments is allotted according to a scheme that has been approved by Cabinet among the several votes taken for education under the consolidated estimates only. Then there are the reserves that have been allocated at various times to secondary schools. They are shown tinder secondary schools in the column headed "Reserves"; the total amount given there is £40,000, which includes an amount out of the national enodwment. If the Commission desires it, I can show how the national endowment is allotted. Besides this, to make up the £40,000 to secondary schools, there is the revenue from the secondary-school reserves, divided in the manner described above, and the income derived by the..«eveval secondary schools from their own special endowments. That applies to all the older secondary schools —to all but one of those established by special Act. Of the secondary schools established by special Act, Marlborough is the only one having no separate endowment. (Some of the others have endowments that are very small indeed.) Marlborough has instead thereof a statutory grant of £400 a year. The new schools established under section 94 of the Education Act, 1908, have no endowment allotted to them, though they are entitled to receive a share of the provincial education reserves revenue allotted to secondary schools. There is a fair number of these now. The last one established is Hamilton; Palmerston North is another; Gore is another; Dannevirke is another. The district high schools do not receive any portion under the Act of the revenue from secondary reserves. In the continuation and technical branches there are one or two small endowments, but they are so small that they may be neglected. £6,000 practically represents their share of the national endowment. As to the University and University Colleges (there are four affiliated Colleges and one affiliated institution), each one of these last five institutions has endowments. The four Colleges, of course, are Auckland University College, Victoria College, Canterbury College, and Otago University; the fifth institution is Lincoln Agricultural College. The endowments for Auckland University College and Victoria College are very small. That of Victoria College is merely nominal. Of the total revenue of £96.000, the sum of £25,000 represents the revenue of Canterbury College, Lincoln Agricultural College, and Otago University. Auckland University College has a revenue of about £900, and
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Victoria College of about .£74. The sum of £1,000 put down for industrial schools and £1,000 put down for special schools out of national endowment relieve the consolidated Tevenue. The last column gives the total cost from all public sources. That includes income from both public funds and income from reserves—£l,232,ooo. That includes industrial schools and schools which are outside this order of reference, and includes superannuation, which is also outside the order of reference. These other matters are dealt with by separate departments in a good many countries —in Victoria, for instance. Then, on the next page, the basis of comparison given is the basis that has been adopted in the United States and on the Continent of Europe. It gives the amount of expenditure per head of population. If I explain one item I think it will be enough. As to primary education, I should like to explain how the expenditure is arrived at. The remark will apply also to the first line of Nl :In the case of primary education there is included in all these tables the cost of manual instruction in primary schools, which in the estimates is put down under the heading " Manual and Technical Instruction." The capitation paid from all sources on manual work generally in primary schools, and the grants for equipment given to these schools, are included under this head, except where the equipment is permanent equipment, and then it comes under the head " New Buildings and Additions," in the same line. ("Permanent equipment" is that which has not to be renewed annually,' only from time to time, at long intervals.) The total cost per head, therefore, on primary education, without including new buildings—and I rather want to draw that distinction—is 16s. sd. namely, 15s. out of public funds and Is. sd. out of income from reserves. I may be permitted to call attention to page 21 of the report which I was commissioned by the Government to make on schools in other parts of the world. On page 21 most of the figures were checked by reference to the local authorities concerned. Of course the report is dated four years ago, and is four or five years behind the information in E.-l. You may take it that the cost in the countries named is not less now than it was. The cost per head of population in England and Wales, for primary education, in 1906 was 12s. 3d., as compared with 16s. sd. now in New Zealand. In London the cost was 175.; in Wales alone, 15s. 5d.; in Scotland, 12s. id.; in Ireland, 6s. 7d. I refer to the expenditure from public sources. Then I should like you to compare the cost in New York and Chicago. On page 44 you will find that the total cost of the maintenance of schools, including elementary and high schools and training colleges for teachers, but excluding parental schools, which are like our industrial schools, was £1 Is. 7d. You cannot separate, in the case of New York, the primary from the secondary expenditure. So for the sake of comparison you must add in this case 2s. 3d. to the 16s. sd. in New Zealand, making the cost of primary and secondary education per head of population 18s. Bd. in New Zealand, and £1 Is. 7d. in New York. In Chicago, which you will find on page 62, they spend for all purposes, primary and secondary, 16s. 9d., exclusive of new buildings. I think that is a fair comparison. It is not an easy thing to make a comparison; you always have to allow for a possible error; in many cases you see different headings which may overlap one another, and unless you can get the figures analysed by the local authorities they may not be of much use. The cost is given for Switzerland,'but of course the conditions are so different that I have not brought it into this comparison. The average pay for teachers, for instance, is only £44 per year. As to new buildings, lam not at present making any suggestions as to what ought to be done. If the Commissioners want suggestions from me they may get them by questions. I should like to point out, however, that in New Zealand a large number of new schools have to be erected in country districts as part of the cost of settlement. It is very different indeed (see pages 20 and 21 of the pamphlet) to find money for schools which have an average roll of 294, as in England and Wales; or, as in London, of 803; or, as in Wales, of 239. The average roll of the schools in New Zealand is 76. That is one point to which I should like to call attention—the cost of small schools is really part of the cost of settlement, due to sparseness of population for the time being. Then, again, the large amount of expenditure on the maintenance of buildings is due to two facts. First of all, most of the schools are of wood, and they cost nearly twice as much for maintenance as brick. We give the Boards grants on the basis of the recommendation of the Education Committee (see 1.—13, 1903, which is out of print). They get 3 per cent, for maintenance, including repainting, repairs, and so on, for each wooden building. They also get an allowance on a certain scale for rebuilding, amounting also to not quite 3 per cent, on the total cost of the building, reckoned at present prices. They have got that every yetfr since 1903—before that the votes were on a different scale altogether—until the year 1909. In 1909 there was a cutting-down in the expenditure, and the vote for rebuilding did not appear in the estimates. Now the amount allowed on brick buildings is 2 per cent, for maintenance and about 1 per cent, for rebuilding. The consequence is that it takes about 3 per cent, to provide for the maintenance and rebuilding of brick schools, and about 6 per cent, to provide for the maintenance and rebuilding of wooden schools. That is one of the reasons why the expenditure on buildings is so large. Secondly, the amount spent on new buildings and additions—£49,ooo in 1910, and it has risen considerably since—is simply due to the progress of new settlement. How far that expenditure can be reduced by the conveyance of children comes under another head. There is another table which 1 will not quote at all, but will just direct your attention to, and that is table N3, page 61 of E.-l. It is generally acknowledged now that that table is one that is subject to most error. There are corresponding tables for Switzerland, Chicago, and New York given in the report of my visit to schools in Europe and America which I will not refer to at present; but I will answer any questions that may be necessary. There is still one more table, N4, which concerns the efficiency of the system as a mechanical system —I am not speaking of the efficiency of the instruction —by showing the number per ten thousand of the population. It shows the proportion of pupils under instruction in the several branches of education. That is shown in the table for the several years beginning 1898 and ending 1910. I may say, although we are not so high as Switzerland or Germany as regards the number receiving
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secondary education, we are higher than Britain or America. I think the general question of educational efficiency is a question that covers a very wide ground, and if I began on that I should frave to make a discursion over the whole realm of education. I would rather answer questions in regard to that. I come now to the administration of the Central Department: I shall take this to apply to the internal administration of the Central Department. The Central Department has several officers under the statute. It has an Inspector-General of Schools, and a Secretary of Education specially named under the statute. It also has Inspectors of Manual and Technical Education, and Inspectors of Industrial Schools, which do not come within the order of reference. It has also Inspectors of Native Schools and two Inspectors of secondary schools, to carry out the provisions of section 97 of the Act. One of these Inspectors of Secondary Schools is called the Assistant Inspector-General of Schools, because he controls the administration of the Inspection Branch of the Department. I think these are all the statutory officers, except one who is also Secretary of the Superannuation Board. Then the Department is divided for administrative purposes into several branches. There is the General Branch, to call it by a convenient name, which deals chiefly with accounts and with general matters, especially those concerning Education Boards. The accounts form a very large proportion of this work, and correspondence from Boards of Education and other bodies, unless it specifically relates to a subject that a special branch deals with, goes to and is dealt with by this General Branch. Claims for grants for buildings would go to that branch, because there is no special branch for buildings. All claims for teachers' salaries go to the same branch. The Inspection and Examination Branch is necessarily a large branch. The total number of candidates last year for the special examinations held by the Department for public purposes or on behalf of Boards was over eight thousand. It is not necessary for me to name the examinations : they will be found in the special paper on examinations. It is a supplement to E.-l, and is known as E.-8. The inspection section of the branch, of course, deals with the inspection of secondary schools and district high schools, the classification of teachers and the classification of junior free pupils and senior free pupils in secondary schools. A card is kept for every teacher; it gives the examination results and other facts about him. Then there is a card for each free pupil; there are so many transfers that unless we followed that plan we should get into confusion with the capitation" payments altogether. When a pupil is transferred we transfer his card. Then there is the issue of certificates. Under the new system there are intermediate certificates, lower leaving certificates, and higher leaving certificates; and the branch deals with many other matters incidental to inspection and examination. University bursaries, national scholarships, and research scholarships are also dealt with by the Inspection Branch; it also has to do with training colleges and the training of teachers. Then there is the Manual and Technical Branch, which deals with all the grants and capitation, with inspection, with free places and scholarships, in connection with manual and technical instruction. The Native Schools Branch deals with the Native primary and secondary schools, with the education of the Chatham Islands, and apprentice and nursing scholarships given to Maori boys and girls respectively. There are two Inspectors in that branch, besides other officers. Next, there is the School Journal and Library Branch, dealing with the School Journal, with all questions relating to free books, authorized school-books, and having charge of the reference library, which is available for the use of teachers throughout the Dominion. The same branch deals with all correspondence from publishers, a very large number of whom send samples of books to the Dominion. Then there is the Special Schools Branch, dealing with special schools of various kinds — namely, reformatories for boys and girls, industrial schools proper—both reformatories and industrial schools being included in the Industrial Schools Act —with receiving homes, boarded-out children under the Industrial Schools Act, inmates licensed to service on probation under the Industrial Schools Act, and infant-life protection. There are about 1,500 children under the Infant Life Protection Act. It also deals with the School for the Deaf and, as far as we have relations with it, with the School for the Blind. In the case of the latter school we pay capitation on Government pupils, and inspect and examine the school. There is also the Home for the Feeble-minded at Otekaike, and it will probably be necessary soon to have another. It deals with the feeble-minded, including epileptics. Then we have the Superannuation Branch, dealing with teachers' superannuation. The amount of work is fairly large. There are only three officers concerned in it —Mr. de Castro, who is also Chief Clerk, having two under him. -When the quarterly meeting is about to be held'they have to use other clerks as well. Lastly, there is the Statistics Branch, which deals also with public reports on education in New Zealand and elsewhere. There is one branch of the public service that was formerly under the Education Department, but is not now a part of the Department—the expenditure is under the Education class, but the head of it is responsible to the Minister directly that is the Public Schools Cadets Branch. The difference is that I am not responsible to the Minister for the expenditure or for any part of its work. Formerly it was part of the Education Department, and I had to take the responsibility. I have now included all the branches, but I have not included all their work. I have named specimens of their work. 3. Mr. Pirani.] I think it would be advisable if you gave us a return of this, showing the expenditure on each branch of the Department, and the special duties of each officer? I think we could do that quite well. There is one thing I should like to say : One officer is head of the School Journal and he is also an Inspector, and in times of great pressure he is called upon to act as an Inspector, because it would be uneconomical to appoint an extra officer when we have an officer qualified for the work. Then there is another thing. If I show the office as it is at this time of the year when the pressure is not so great i. I was going to suggest that the return might cover ;i series of years. You can choose the time when the pressure is greatest if you like? —I will explain, and then draw up a return as you desire. At the present moment we have no temporary clerks. The policy of our Department is
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to appoint candidates from the Civil Service list as much as we can. Some men have been kept on as temporary clerks for special duties owing to the special qualifications they have possessed. Three of these have become permanent officers since 1907. But from September to March these eight thousand candidates come up for examination. Each of these sends in a list of subjects on which he wishes to be examined, and many have to send fees. You have to acknowledge receipt, '.send each candidate a time-table; you have to tell him the result; and generally, with a verylarge proportion of the candidates, there is some correspondence, because they mark wrong subjects on the lists in their application forms, and make other mistakes; and the lists have to be sent back, and the entries corrected. We use our permanent men —even though young, they are very-good—-for the most responsible work; and for the more formal work we employ temporary clerks, engaging as far as possible those who have done the same work for us in previous years; so that at that time of the year we have eight or ten extra clerks employed. We take them on as the pressure increases. Occasionally we have one of our typists ill. We'do not consider that a capable young clerk, whether boy or girl, ought to be kept merely typing, so if one of our typists is ill we sometimes employ a temporary typist during the period of sick-leave. Otherwise" our staff is entirely made up of those taken from the Civil Service Junior Examination. 5. The Chairm,an.] Can we not get a return under these several headings for five-yearly periods, starting from 1890-91 and finishing 1911-12, which would cover a period of twenty years altogether in four five-weekly periods ?—To make it fair, 1 should have to show the work we had to do at each period. 6. I want you to show on one side the difference in the work—the attendance at the schools during each of these five-yearly periods and the additional work cast on the Department in the same periods?— Yes. I will prepare a return under the head of the branches as we work them. I should prefer to do that rather than under the several votes. In connection with the administration of our Department, the correspondence is so manifold in its character that there is one recognized way of dealing with it all, and a junior knows what to do at once. First of all, a letter goes to one branch, and it is recorded in the branch to which it belongs. The great mass of the records are in what I have called the General Branch, but all manual and technical records are kept in the Manual and Technical Branch, all inspection and examination records are kept m the Inspection Branch, special-school records in the Special Schools Branch, and so on. 7. Mr. Kirk.] If a letter comes addressed to the Inspector-General, who opens it? —If it is addressed by name, then it is kept to be opened by me as a personal Tetter; but if it is addressed, as it ought to be, to the " Inspector-General of Schools " it may go to one branch or the other, it does not matter which; but as soon as it is opened the clerk finds"out the branch to which it belongs and it is sent there. 8. Who opens it first?—A junior opens all letters addressed in that general way. 9. Has he sufficient knowledge to decide to which branch it should go?—lf he does not know, there is a superior officer near to tell him. The work is so specific that he would very soon know. If it goes to the wrong branch by mistake, it is immediately handed on to the right branch. The mass of letters coming in at one time is so great that if the separate branches dfd not take the letters that specially relate to them we should hardly be able to get through them in the day. 10. Under that system, then, it is possible that the person to whom the letter is addressed might never see the letter?— Yes; I might not see letters addressed to the " Inspector-General of Schools "; but the person responsible for the matter would certainly get it. 11. It might be dealt with without your knowledge ?—lt would" be impossible to deal otherwise with, say, 80,000 letters corning in; many of them are merely formal letters, asking for copies of regulations, and so on; these letters are not sent to me. 12. Mr. Thomson.] A letter would come to you if addressed by name?— Yes; but that is a very undesirable thing to do if prompt treatment is wanted, because if I am away inspecting (unless I have allowed somebody to open my personal letters, which I have had to do at certain times of the year) it might follow me all round New Zealand. 13. Mr. Wells.] It would be physically impossible for you to read all the letters addressed to the Inspector-General of Schools?—l could not do it. As soon as a letter reaches the record clerk of the branch to which it belongs it is filed and indexed, and it is his business to see that it is acknowledged and dealt with; it is his business to bring it up until it is dealt with. 14. The Chairman.] Apart from ma-tters of routine such as you mention, is there any officer whose duty it is to forward to you any letter dealing with a matter of such importance, in regard to administration, for instance, that you should know of it?— There are some matters in which the policy is well defined. It would be utterly impossible for me to deal with the whole of the matters to be dealt with by the Department if I included these. Some years ago we took a return of the letters, and they numbered 80,000. I have to advise the Minister as to policy questions and I have to advise as to the drafting of Bills, and a great many other things, so that it would be utterly impossible for me to go into every individual case. 15. What I said was, is it possible for any question involving policy or large administration to be dealt with apart from your knowledge ?—All policy questions are supposed to come to me 16. Are you conscious of any case having been dealt with apart from you where a question of policy or a question affecting the administration of the Act was involved?— There must be cases where the policy is not a new policy. Where the policy has been decided by the Minister or by me as a question of interpretation of what the Minister has decided, then that case may be dealt with without coming to me. In all such cases it will be understood by the Secretary of Education or by the Assistant Inspector-General of Schools that these cases are to be dealt with" in accordance with the precedent. If there is no distinct precedent, however, or it is doubtful whether the case comes under the precedent, they come to me, and, as a matter of fact, they do generally come to me 17. Mr. Kirk.] In that case it might be possible for twenty letters, all dealing with a certain matter of policy well laid down, to be dealt with without your knowledge? Yes.
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18. Now, each of these twenty letters might be a letter objecting to the policy, or suggesting amendments? —They would come to me. 19. There may be complaints as to the policy?—We have had one person complaining every year since I have been in the Department. She is complaining against one of the Boards, and she has got the same answer every time, that it is a matter for the Board. She thinks it ought not to be a matter for the Board. I think it should be, and not only that, but the Act lays down that it is. I know she wrote about it this year, because she wrote to me personally. I see no need for me to deal with such cases personally. 20. Mr, Wells.] In regard to claims for new buildings, you very often hear complaints about delay: we are sure to meet with that on our journey?—lf you inquire into the amount of delay here and the amount of delay in England, you would be astonished to find how quickly we get through them. There are a good many questions to be settled before a grant for a new building can be given at all. 21. Mr. Kirk.] There is this aspect of my question : Seeing you have so much correspondence to deal with, is it not possible that some of the letters that come to you could be dealt with by the Education Boards?—We remit everything to the. Education Boards within their powers and discretion. I will say that unreservedly. If a letter comes from a teacher about any special matter concerning his school or appointment, or anything except his certificate, it is a matter for the Board, and we are constantly sending replies to that effect. Now and then a new officer may draft a reply which is brought in to be signed by the responsible head, and it may escape notice. I have been in the English Civil Service, and such things certainly escape notice there sometimes. But, otherwise, matters that can be dealt with by the Education Boards we are only too glad to get them to deal with. It is our policy to do so. 22. Your policy is a sympathetic policy? —Decidedly. The Education Boards have done grand work, and if the Education Boards disappeared you would have to have some other similar bodies, if you are going to secure efficient administration. Ido not believe in central administration at all. I am very strongly against central administration. I do not believe in the Australian system. As to " The powers and rights possessed respectively by Education Boards and other local educational authorities, and whether they should be extended," I do not quite know what this means; so far as the English of it goes, it would have no reference to the Central Department at all, but only to the Education Boards and other local education authorities. The other local bodies are School Committees, High School Boards, and Managers of Technical Schools, but I do not quite understand the implied antithesis. 23. Mr. Pirani.] I will put the position to you this way : Do you think that the powers of these bodies could be extended, so far as you know? —Yes, I do. I might say in this connection that most of my answers will be conditional, and might imply a state of things which do not exist at present. In fact, I would prefer to give my views on this point in committee, when the Press is not present But 1 hold, quite apart from debatable matter, that Education Boards should control all local education of what kind soever. 24. That is practically primary, technical, and secondary?— Yes. I assume if they did that they would be popularly elected. 25. The Chairman.] Do you mean on a special franchise, or on what is known as the parliamentary one?—l believe in only one franchise for everything in the country. Therefore I naturally mean the parliamentary franchise. That is a general statement. I do not say that they should have all the powers in relation to secondary schools. 26. Do you mean that you would not transfer to them the same power of appointment of teachers that you would give to the primary schools ? —I do not think I should. 27. Mr. Pirani.] Why not? —I should like them to prove that they were competent before I handed over the powers. 28. Cannot you get proof in Wanganui, where you have the secondary institution solely under the Board of Education? —Yes, as the governing body of the institution, and, if Mr. Pirani will allow me to say so, I do not think that any evil results whatever have come from it. 29. The Chairman.] Would not the tendency be in that direction if it were recognized there was a great responsibility attaching to the elector to return men charged with that higher duty?— I think it very likely. I think that is very likely to be so in Wanganui now. What I feel is that, if it came to a question of legislation, it is best to give powers cautiously, and extend those powers afterwards, than it is to give too much power at first, and then try to call it back. It is only caution; it is not disbelief that they may not be able to do it. 30. Would you qualify it by saying a gradual extension?— Yes. There is one thing I think you must not interfere with—in regard to primary as well as secondary schools —with the teacher's methods, or as to how he shall teach the subjects he teaches. That is a most important thing. There is more danger of this, I think, in the secondary schools. 31. You would allow full play to individuality?— Yes, whatever you do. In the secondary schools and in the technical schools there is something to be gained from the freedom in the arrangement of subjects which should be in the hands of the teacher. The arrangement of subjects in a school is partly in the hands of the Boards by the nature of the appointments they make. If you appoint a number of teachers to a school, and not one can take botany, you thereby cut out the teaching of botany in that school. The questions of appointment and management are not distinct. I think you must allow full freedom of the arrangement of the work of the school, and full freedom of the arrangement of the work of the teacher and his methods. If you can secure that, then I think the local body is perfectly justified in saying what courses of study the schools shall take up. 32. Mr. Pirani.] Whilst on secondary schools, do you not think it would be advisable to have a scheme of classification of teachers, and for payment of teachers, in the same way as in the
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primary schools —of course, I do not mean exactly the same?—ln the case of the primary schools, they are financed by the Central Government. We pay over the amounts; unless you alter your method of control, you cannot do that with the secondary. 33. That is subject to your suggestion that the control is in the hands of the Education Boards. But you must alter the method of control? —I am putting qualifications on that. '. " 34. You first said you would give the Education Boards, elected on a different basis, the control of the secondary schools, but not the control of the appointment of teachers : who would have that control: surely the-Central Department?— No. 35. Who would have the appointment of teachers? —The governing body, as now in New Zealand and in England. 36. What governing body?—lt is called the " governing body." 37. Who would be the governing body under your system? —The governing bodies would be restricted, so that they could not determine what courses should or should not be taken in the schools. 38. Before you mention that at all, you said you were in favour of one body having control of the whole of the primary and secondary education in their district?— You have quite misunderstood me. When I say control, I mean general control. What I want to see is that this body —Education Board or whatever name it gets after it is altered —this local authority on education should have a general control over all branches of education. 39. You do not mean the abolition of the secondary boards of governors?—l think it would be still most necessary to let every school, whether primary, secondary, or technical, have its own board of governors or managers or committee or whatever you call it. Let each have its own board of managers. I will put it this way : that the local authority —that is, the Education Board —commensurate with the present Education Board in importance and area of control, should have general control of all local education. 40. The Chairman.] Up to the point of the University ?—The University is now generally held to belong to the sphere of non-local education. I regard university education as a question of national importance rather than of local importance : the other branches of education are more local in character. 41. Assuming, for the sake of argument, that it is possible to make the education district coterminous with the University one, would the local authority up to that point have general control over all education matters, save and except the University? —Yes. 42. Where would you put training colleges? —I would take them right out of local education. The training of teachers is higher education, or, at all events, non-local education. Now as to " The expenditure on manual and technical instruction, and the question of local responsibility in regard to providing portion of funds therefor " : there are two questions there. The expenditure, I have already pointed out, is down under the vote for manual and technical instruction, and is partly for manual instruction in schools, primary and secondary, and partly for technical instruction and continuation classes in so-called technical schools and technical classes. I shall put in a return showing the amount paid for manual instruction in primary schools, the amount paid for manual instruction in secondary schools, the amount paid for continuation classes, and the amount paid for technical instruction proper. It will show under separate headings what the expenditure in each branch is. In regard to the question of local responsibility, and providing part of the funds therefor, that is part of the debatable matter already referred to. Now, as to " The amalgamation of local governing or controlling bodies " : no doubt three of the Boards are far too small at the present time. Whatever theory you have of the duties and powers of Education Boards, Marlborough, Westland, and Grey are too small. I am not at all sure that Auckland is not too large. I am inclined to think it is. It depends on what theory of education control you are proceeding on. As to " Overlapping and duplication " : first of all, it does not necessarily follow that all overlapping whatever is to be avoided. For instance, if a boy's day-school life ends at fourteen, it seems to me appropriate he should get some of that kind of attention which he would get at a secondary school if he were to go on to a secondary school after the primary school. That relates to strictly mental training and to moral training also. In such a case there would be justification for some overlapping between the primary schools and the secondary schools. Also, there may be some boys and girls that would gain by an earlier beginning of their secondary-school course. In my opinion, these are number, if by an earlier period you mean an earlier stage of education, and not an earlier age. However, there may be ground for some overlapping on that account. There may be apparent overlapping also in the case of technical schools and secondary schools, because some of the same subjects may be taught in both. I think the proper way is to look at the course as a whole, and see if the courses are the same in the two schools. There may be an amount of apparent overlapping in the technical education that is given in the higher departments of a technical school and the technical education that is given more properly at the University. It is most easily explained by a reference to one of the professions, say that of engineering. In my view, the function of a technical school in engineering is to train apprentices, fitters, foremen, submanagers, or managers of branches of engineering works; the function of the University is to train professional engineers who presumably satisfy the conditions that are required for the general management of engineering concerns and for direction and consultation. You may have a branch of engineering taken in a technical school with the same name as a branch of engineering taken in the engineering school of a university college, but it would be approached along the line suitable for a professional man who has had a complete training in the theory and practice of science beforehand; whereas that in the technical school is given for the man whose training has been from that of the apprentice and fitter and foreman upwards, and therefore mainly practical and only partially, as it were by chance, scientific. The methods of teaching would be different in a great degree. Therefore, when it
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comes to saying which engineering classes should be taken at a technical school and which at_ a university college, one of the questions to be considered is what the character of the work is. Another question is the question of cost. A professional engineering education is an extremely C ° St 43 State?— Somebody has to pay for it. In some places the State does not do much; the individual has to pay. I will take the case of Auckland as an example, or perhaps the simpler way would be to put in the report of a conference on overlapping held m Auckland last 1 will merely state in evidence that a conference was called by the Auckland Education Board to consider the question of overlapping of primary, secondary, technical, and university education. It was held at the Training College, Auckland, on the 26th July, 1911. I was asked to be present, and when I appeared, was voted to the chair. This report to which I refer was the report I was directed to sign on behalf of the whole conference. It gives the views of the several authorities and incidentally my own views too. Evidence was taken from the University point ot view too Professor Thomas, Dr. McDowell, and Professor F. D. Brown represented the University I can explain the position in regard to this, because it is a subject to which the Department has devoted a good deal of attention. I should like to call attention to a section of the Act of 1908, which concerns overlapping, to show you how we interpret it It is section 180- "The Minister shall refuse to recognize any special, associated, or college class in any subject if he considers that sufficient means of instruction in that subject are already provided by classes under this part of this Act within a radius of five miles from the place where the class seeking recognition is to be held." The Department in any other case of recognition of schools or classes that depends on the Minister generally advises him that even if it is not a subject provided by classes under the Act, if it is a subject open to the public under equally favourable conditions, that we shall construe the provisions as to overlapping in the same way. If it is at a secondary school for instance, if it is a class equally open to the public with the classes that are under this part of the Act, we shall not recognize both classes, if the question is one that by law is within the discretion of the Minister. It applies to such places as the Elam School ot Art, We have refused to recognize at the Elam School of Art classes that would clash with the Auckland Technical School and to recognize classes at the Auckland Technical School similar to those that were already recognized at the Elam School of Art. Both of these are classes under that part of the Act The Elam School of Art is one of those named in the Twelfth Schedule to the Act. As to " The finance of Education Boards, high school, and manual and technical governing bodies : that is one of the orders of reference that I would suggest we should take in committee. Now, as to the heading- "In what respects school instruction can be improved and made ot more practical value in equipping pupils for their future careers" : that is another very big question indeed Of course we hear sometimes a great many demands from business men from time to time that they shall be supplied, so to speak, with boys and girls who are fully equipped to take up the work of an office, whose handwriting is formed to the style that that particular office approves and whose arithmetic is technical to such a degree that they can take up the particular calculations required in that office, and generally that they are to be worth probably three or four times as much as the 5s or 10s. a week that is offered. (We hear all sorts of demands from time to time that if they do not mean that mean nothing at all.) I do not suppose anybody in the Commission would have any sympathy with such a demand, and I do not know whether it is worth while discussing it. I want to go a little further, and say it is far more valuable to tram boys and girls in such a way as to make them capable of using their brains or mte hgence for any special kind of work they are going to do than to make fully qualified junior clerks or typists, or any other finished product we might succeed in getting by special methods. I say that as a general remark to save me from being misunderstood in what lam going to say next. I strongly believe in vocational training right through the school life. By » vocational training " I do not mean the kind of bread-and-butter training I referred to just now—the production of finished products able to take a place in office or shop. By " vocational training I mean that the subjects of the training should be chosen so that they have some bearing on the future life of the pupil. 1 hold that if you are going to teach the pupil in the best way you must consider his present environment and his future life By considering his present environment and future life you are really coming closest of all into contact with nature, with things as they are, and the closer you come into contact with things as they are the more points of sympathy there are with the child, and the more successful your education will be. That is general. To be a little more particular, I think that formerly our primary education and secondary education were what is generally called too literary, but what I would call too formal in character." There was too little for the children to do, too little practice in exercises that would establish a connection between the brain and the hand and eye. Subjects and methods of instruction were so far removed from the children's own experience of things that school-work got to be looked on as something that had no relation whatever to life. As soon as you get a child to think that it does not matter whether he does his school-work well or badly because it has no practical relation to life, you have really lowered his moral plane; and the most remarkable things about our system in all British countries in past years is that it has produced a state of things in the school by which the pupil forgives himself with the utmost ease for a complete neglect of all his school duties, and his fellow-pupils back up his judgment. Nobody regards it as a disgrace to leave school-work quite neglected. That is the case m an ordinary school in almost any British country that I know of. Ido not put that down to the fault of the children so largely "as to the fact that we have made school life too artificial, and have separated their life interests in the present from their life interests in the future. I feel very strongly about that; whatever shape you are going to give to instruction, it is most important that you should sustain interest by linking it with the child's own life and experience. All sorts of opinions are held as to whether you should teach grammar at all in the primary school, or to what extent
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you should teach it, but all would be agreed that to teach to the extent to which it used to be taught in the past did not command the respect of or interest the child in any degree. When I mention grammar I represent the extreme position of the old system. There was too much grammar. The same remark applies to what was called " formal arithmetic." Even in our syllabus now, for which I take some responsibility, there are too many rules of arithmetic, and in our schools I believe too much time is given to arithmetic. lam taking arithmetic as a sample subject, because "there is less debate about this than about grammar. To some people grammar is a sacred thing that you must not touch, but there are fewer mathematicians in the world, and people can with more impunity throw stones at arithmetic than at grammar; but really the position is exactly the same for the two. In regard to arithmetic, if they were to do hardly any arithmetic but questions that would be absolutely suggested by the practical concerns of life, they could in the process be taught all the principles it is necessary they should know. That is what I hold, and if I had time I should like to tell the Commission my experience in seeing it taught in what I consider one of the best schools in the world —the school attached to the Teachers' College at the Columbia University at New York, where any question that did not arise out of the common daily life was absolutely prohibited; and yet the command of arithmetic possessed by the children in the upper classes there would shame most of the children trained in any school in the British Empire. If we can do that in regard to all our subjects, including reading, we shall have made a great advance in regard to the primary schools. Ido not believe in the ordinary miscellaneous readingbook at all. I believe that in teaching children reading you should teach them entirely out of interesting books. I should teach my own children in that way, and I do not see why I should teach other people's children in any other way. The School Journal tries to follow that line, but the School Journal is, to my mind, onty one element among many. I would have a large number of continuous readers, containing continuous stories or continuous descriptions. It is quite a mistake to imagine that children will read only stories. Make a description or narrative interesting, and they will read it. As to the teaching of science, whatever science it is, whether nature-study or physics, the method should be that you use only subjects that can be brought within the child's own experience. That is why so much emphasis is attached to nature-study now, because nature-study properly means study of things that are within or that can be brought within the child's own experience—the study of things at first hand. I think that will be a sufficient indication of what I mean about bringing primary education closer into contact with life. As regards secondary education, I would have vocational courses in every secondary school in New Zealand. Because of the demands of professional examinations, you must keep the general courses in the schools for a certain number of boys and girls. What I mean by professional examinations are those for law, medicine, and the church, because the preliminary examinations for these professions require certain subjects. It is also desirable to keep up these courses for another class of students which is not very numerous, but is still an important class—the class which deals with pure learning, with Latin, Greek, and other foreign literature. It is not desirable we should lose that class, and we have got to teach more than the number in that class in order to secure the full amount of pure learning in the end. I would have, probably in every secondary school in New Zealand, a commerce course. By that I do not mean you should have a course that would turn out expert clerks, but a course in which the subjects were so chosen that the pupils would come to understand the principles on which commerce is based, and have a knowledge of the science and arts with which it principally deals. I should say I would have in every boys' secondary school in New 'Zealand an agricultural course provided. I would have also what might be called a course of applied science, leading up to engineering and other branches of applied science. In the case of girls I would have domestic science or home science courses. The reason for the agricultural course is partly based on my conception of the importance of agriculture in New Zealand. I hold there is no calling in New Zealand that is anything like so important as agriculture, and I do not think there is any calling that is likely to be so important for a good many years to come; and if we are not going to train up our boys and girls in New Zealand in a knowledge of agriculture, and—what is equally necessary —train them to know the way in which to approach the higher knowledge of agriculture—then we shall be making a fatal mistake. The mistake has gone on long enough now, and the sooner we cure it the better. Another reason I have is this —a negative reason, it is true —that I shall not be doing any harm to the boy or girl who is not going to take up agriculture. Agriculture essentially deals with the prime facts of nature, and therefore you deal with things that every man and woman is interested in, because they are prime facts of nature. That I hold as fundamental. I also hold this :If you want to get a training in science, it does not matter what the specific subject is, provided that the method of teaching is right. It is just as good, for instance, to teach a boy to find the specific gravity of milk, as an example of a liquid, as to teach him to find the specific gravity of sulphuric acid or of alcohol. In the case of milk you are dealing with a thing that the boy sees every day, whereas the first time you introduce sulphuric acid to a boy he does not know what it is, and very likely burns his finger before he knows what it is. What I say is that you can get a training in scientific method from subjects of agricultural knowledge as well as from other subjects. Therefore, you are not doing any injury to a person you train in agriculture, even if he is not going to be an agriculturist. I do not believe in making separate schools for agriculture, commerce, domestic science, and all the other different compartments into which you can divide the training for life. Ido not believe in making separate schools —first, because in New Zealand you cannot afford them all. We might be able to afford them in one centre —Auckland —and possibly in the other three larger centres, but we cannot afford them everywhere. In most places we can afford only one school for secondary education. Secondly, you would have so many subjects common to the different courses that if a pupil had to change his course you would have to alter only a small part of his time-table, and not the whole of it. For instance, may I take as .'in example the course
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in applied-science course and the general course, which might be considered to be widely different? In: the first two years in both courses pupils would take the same English, the same mathematics, the same history and civics; they would take one science, at all events, in common; they would take the same language —a modern language—that is, if they took any foreign language at all. They would take the same drawing, the same physical exercises. In fact, they would have three-fifths of their work in common; so that those who changed their course would have to change probably only two-fifths of their work, instead of having to change the whole work as they might have to do if they went from one school to another. You cannot tell at the age of fourteen what a boy or a girl is going to be, and still less can you decide at an earlier age. The great mistake (now being recognized even in Germany itself) is that with separate schools for separate courses the parent has to make up his mind when the child is nine years old (or, on the Frankfurt plan, at the age of twelve) as to what course the child is to go through right to the end —that is, until he is nineteen; if he does not complete the chosen course he spoils it by a serious break in the middle. In order to avoid that we ought to have these various courses at the same school. It is more economical educationally as well as financially. That is my general view in regard to the safeguard against overlapping:. The alleged overlapping may be illustrated by one or two cases —namely, those of Auckland and Napier. The technical school in Auckland proposed to start commercial classes. These commercial classes would be of all stages—junior commercial classes that relate to the intermediate stage from thirteen to fourteen to fifteen or sixteen years (the junior-free-place period) and senior commercial classes that relate to the senior-free-place period, from fifteen or sixteen to eighteen or nineteen years of age. We draw a distinction between these two stages because we think with certain authorities in the world —the Chamber of Commerce amongst others—that it is no use trying to make a clerk at the age of fourteen years : that at that age the boy wants his general education extended in a way he was not ready for before. At fourteen years he has come to an age at which his bodily and mental powers are both beginning to mature; he is in a state of adolescence. You therefore ous:ht to give him that education, though it may be vocational in tendency, at the secondary school, so as to extend at the same time his general education. We therefore asked the Auckland Grammar School Board of Governors whether they were piepared to give snch a course—the junior commercial course —in the Auckland Grammar School. They said they were not prepared to give it to all who applied for admission to the school. (I am not condemning them for saving so : they were already giving it to a certain extent.) Partly for that reason, and partly because in Auckland there is room for two schools of secondary rank, we asrreed to the establishing of commercial classes of both grades, junior and senior, at the Technical School. We agreed to these classes because the Grammar School was not prepared to make any fresh provision for these pupils. At the same time, bearing: in mind what has happened in New York, where a special high school of commerce was established, I still think it is a mistake to attempt to set up classes or schools that deal with commerce alone; for I may mention, for the information of the Commission, that at the New York High School of Commerce all courses are now taken, the school authorities having found that if they did not establish other special courses they would lose pupils who wanted to give up the commercial course and take another one. It is no longer therefore, solely a special school of commerce. In the case of Napier, the High School was not prepared to take up a commercial course, and, even if we had wished to interfere, we could not have compelled them to do so. It therefore seemed necessary that we should recognize the course at the Technical School. Napier is really not bip , enough, in my opinion, to run two schools of a secondary character for boys or two such schools for girls. In regard to applied science, the case is not quite so clear as it is in regard to commerce. Only very large schools can afford the apparatus and equipment necessary for running even the preliminary stages of a vocational engineering course, so in mv opinion in New Zealand those who are going to be engineer apprentices at an early ace should take their work in connection with an institution already provided with the apparatus and equipment. Wanganui is rather a case in point: the Technical School is already well equipped; it would be a mistake to try and set up another such school in the district.
Wellington, Sattjrdat, Ist June, 1912. George Hogben further examined. 44. The Will you please continue your evidence in regard to the orders of reference not yet dealt with?—l will now deal with " Agricultural instruction and rural courses." I would ask permission to refer to page 83 of mv report on a visit to schools in other parts of the world, and particularly in America. The table there. I think, almost explains itself. Ihis is the scheme of agricultural education as I think it should exist in New Zealand. Nature-study should be taken by all primary schools. It is now compulsory in the syllabus, and probably is taken by nearly all schools with varying degrees of efficiency (as is very natural, I suppose, with teachers of all kinds of qualifications). I think it is still necessary to emphasize nature-study more than it has been emphasized yet. lam speaking generally; Ido not say in every school; some schools have taken it up in an adequate manner already. I should like to intercept a remark here to prevent a possible misconception; when I emphasize nature-study and when I emphasize subiects of manual instruction and science I do not intend thereby to lay less emphasis on the teaching of the mother-tongue. The teaching of the mother-tongue is the most important work of the schools, and must occupy, whatever else happens, the principal place, not as a mere formal language study, but simply because it is the vehicle of expression of all thought whatever. Then, in the
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upper classes of the primary schools, I think that elementary agriculture or gardening along lines that will help towards agriculture should form part of the work. I should like to see it in~all schools : merely as an extension of nature-study I should like to see if in all schools. It should certainly be taken up in every rural school or in every school in a small town. Small towns are centres of country districts, and what they do the country schools are likely to do. In some districts dairy-work might be taken in an elementary manner in classes Standard V and Standard VI, particularly in the districts where dairying forms the staple industry. To that extent work in the primary schools would be vocational; but it should not be vocational in any sense that would interfere with its efficiency as an instrument for making citizens. I will now come to the next period of school life—the first part of the secondary period corresponding to the intermediate-course or junior-free-place period. There the city high schools should begin to make their science strong; it should not be too highly specialized, but tne vocational aspect should be borne in mind. The most important thing is that the scientific method should be acquired. In the country high schools I should like to see the main science always elementary agriculture. The same remark would apply to the district high schools. For those who have left school at the earliest age possible—namely, fourteen —or on passing the Sixth Standard, there should be afternoon and evening classes—continuation classes—and all those in the country should be given the opportunity of course in agriculture and dairy-work. It is quite necessary that you should add to that the further study of the mother-tongue, so I put down in this list English and I put English there for two reasons. It is found as a result of experience that in any technical work those attending the continuation classes are crippled unless they have the power of expressing themselves —describing what they see and what they do in clear language, and the practice in English need not be widely separated from the practice in agriculture, if they are constantly made to give concise accounts of their experiments and observations. But, in addition to that, I have another reason why I think English should be taught in the country continuation schools. One of the obiections to country life, which is no less strong because it is very often unperceived, is the drudgery that seems to be associated with the occupations of the farm. If you want people to go into the country you must make country life as interesting and as human as you can, and if you can give your country people some interest in their own literature, without attempting to be too pedantic or too academic in your methods, you will have helped to relieve the monotony of country life. You will help to make the country school one of the centres of social life as well as the place where instruction is given. In the last two years or more of the secondary stage the work of the first two years will be continued, the only difference being that it will become more markedly vocational or even technical. That is, in the senior course, whether taken in the day secondary school or in the continuation school. The age of the pupils would generally run from fifteen or sixteen to eighteen or # nineteen. The great majority of them would be earning their own living. So far we have failed in New Zealand to get many pupils of this age in our agriculture courses. I am bound to say that the efforts made to get them by some authorities have not been very strenuous; but other authorities have made great efforts, and have not succeeded much better. ' There are great difficulties in the way, and the greatest difficulty of all is the lethargy of the farming community itself. _ The farming community in New Zealand has not yet been converted to the necessity of training the future farmer to understand the scientific basis of agriculture. I am speaking generally. Here and there you find groups of people that have been converted to that fdea. In some of these latter cases the difficulty, I think, has been that the arrangements for the classes have not suited the work on the farms. The cows require milking, and there are many operations that can be carried on only in daylight; it is no use expecting farmers' sons and daughters to go to the classes when the work of the farm peremptorily demands their attention. We ought to arrange more for winter afternoon courses, and for courses taking up only, say, two or three afternoons a week during certain months when farm-work is slack. I would refer the Commission to what is being done, for instance, in Minnesota, Wisconsin, Michigan, and other parts of America. I referred to that in mv pamphlet: but the work has been extended still more since my visit. I'o do this work in New Zealand well, high schools and district high schools and ordinary primary schools have to work together. We cannot afford to find separate buildings and provide separate organizations for all the work of agricultural instruction that ought to be done That is an additional reason why ther.e should be a general control of all local schools by one authority. After the age of eighteen or nineteen agricultural instruction should not cease but it_ will necessarily become more diverse in form. First of all a small number will be going on with their special studies in agriculture. A small proportion of these will give up four years to studyfor the degree of Bachelor of Agriculture or Bachelor of Veterinary Science. Others who will not aim quite so high will still do a somewhat smaller and shorter course of two or three years at the agricultural college, or dairying college, or veterinary college. These people would be if they had the necessary practical experience, suitable for Inspectors in the different branches of agriculture, directors of dairy schools, Inspectors of Meat, and so on ; and there is no reason why a considerable number of them should not be managers of farms where the size of the farm requires more systematic knowledge than the average farm. We will next take the teachers and organizers of agricultural instruction who are among this smaller number They would be of two kinds. They would be the organizers and instructors of special classes not necessarily attached to any one school, but often itinerant; and I think the best course for them would be a two-years course at the agricultural college, together with a one-year course at a training college that they might be acquainted with the conditions and principles of teaching Then there would be.th e< ordinary teacher in charge, say, of the district high school or in charge of the agricultural instruction at the district high school. I think he should have two years at a training college hke all other teachers, and we should provide him also with one year at an agricultural
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college. Then, for the very much larger class who are earning their living, we should provide school courses intensely practical, very often associated with experimental farms—probably a large number of the courses not so much academic as of the kind that would be taken by experts of the Agricultural Department; and we should not leave any of these people for the rest of their lives without giving them the means of keeping their knowledge up to date. For that specific purpose there should be short winter courses for adult farmers. This scheme implies experimental stations (which would naturally be under the control of the Agricultural Department) to bring the knowledge up to date, or for special research. I think there should be a general council of agricultural education, because there are so many different bodies concerned in the work that there should be some means of bringing them together. The council should consist of representatives of the Agricultural Department, the Education Department; of agricultural colleges, dairy schools, and veterinary colleges; of the controlling authorities of agricultural classes and farmers' societies. I should like to say that the existing regulations in New Zealand allow for nearly every one of the courses that I have suggested in my report, and most of the courses can be obtained free of cost to the pupils. I should like them to be all free, and I would add that some of the instruction should be compulsory. 45. Will you indicate what? —You would have to give the choice to the individual. 46. But when the individual had chosen, you mean it should be compulsory upon him to proceed? —Yes. Now as to the rural courses taken up. You will find fairly full details of that in E.-5, 1911. Agricultural courses have been taken up by a large number of district high schools and by a few of the secondary schools. In 1910 complete rural courses were taken up in sixteen district high schools, situated in five educational districts, and the number of pupils taking it up 447. I think it is quite safe to say that more than double that number are taking it up now. I will supply the exact figures later. That refers only to complete rural courses. The number taking up the elementary agricultural course in primary schools was alone very much larger. It was 15,159 in 1910. Speaking of the rural course in district high schools, the rural course was suggested to several Boards controlling district high schools in a general waysome years ago, but in a more specific way in a circular issued by the Department two or three years ago, and a regulation was passed by the Governor in Council giving £5 10s. per annum additional payment on account of each pupil that took the complete rural course. Grants have also been given for the necessary buildings—laboratories and workshops. I will supply a return giving the figures in connection with this expenditure and the number of pupils attending the courses. This is the course that was suggested enabling the district high schools to earn this £5 10s. grant: English, four hours a week; arithmetic and book-keeping, four hours a week; geography, one hour a week; civics and economics, one hour a week; drawing to scale and elementary building-construction for boys and hygiene or physiology for girls, two hours a week; woodwork —boys, cookery—girls, two hours a week; elementary physiology and anatomy of farm animals —boys, household economy or housewifery —girls, one hour a week; elementary physics and farm economics, two hours a week; agricultural science and rural economy, three hours a week; dairying, one hour a week; physical instruction, one hour a week: total, twenty-four hours a week. We recommended a similar course with a little modification for country high schools. The £5 10s. is payable only to district high schools; the secondary schools have already a secured finance. Certainly some of these subjects get the ordinary capitation for manual instruction besides, which in the case of schools is considered enough to pay for the material. There is a certain number of the secondary schools that are taking this work. I should rather not say too much on the degree of efficiency already reached in some of them, because they are only just beginning the work, and it would not be fair to criticize them. Moreover, in several cases the staffs are not sufficiently qualified for the work; while anxious to do it, they are only feeling their way. But I can name without any odious comparison one or two schools where the work is being very well done. I will mention one of them—Palmerston North High School. Ido not say there are not several others doing it as well or nearly as well; but I have inspected that one personally. Among the options allowed to pupils at Palmerston North is a fairly complete vocational course dealing with agriculture and dairying, and the pupils who go through this course have proved themselves on being tested not only to have a sound knowledge of the foundation of agriculture, but to have a thoroughly good general education, as regards, at all events, the two main characteristics —knowledge of and taste for English literature and knowledge gained practically of scientific method. They are, in my opinion, the only two essentials of education.
Auckland, Tuesday, 4th Junk. 1912. George Hogben further examined. 47. The Chairman.] We shall now be glad to hear your views with respect to clause 10 of the order of reference —Scholarships and free places : what changes, if any, should be made in this connection? —A summary of the facts with regard to scholarships will be found on pages 44 to 47 of Parliamentary Paper E.-l, 1911. Free places are tenable at secondary schools, district high schools, or technical schools, or, in the case of those of predominantly Maori birth, at Maori secondary schools. The total number in 1910, the last year for which we have complete returns, was 7,540. A junior free place is obtained in one of three ways — (a) by the gaining of a Junior National Scholarship or an Education Board Scholarship, or a scholarship given by the Governors of a secondary school; (b) by qualifying for a scholarship, though not obtaining one, or by passing the Department's examination for junior free places; (c) by gaining a certificate of proficiency
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in Standard VI of the public-school syllabus. As far as regards scholarship-holders, and those who qualify for free places by qualifying for the Scholarship Examination or by passing the Junior i'ree Place Examination, 1 believe that the standard is uniform throughout the Dominion. All candidates take the same examination. The scholarships awarded by the Education Boards are given on examinations held by the Department, the results being forwarded to the Boards; .bat as regards those who obtain free places through the certificate of proficiency the standard varies to some extent, as the Inspectors of the different districts do not, apparently, require quite the same standard of work for the certificate. It is extremely difficult to arrive at an exact judgment on the point, but that is the conclusion to which one appears to be driven from the facts. I see no reason why the Junior National Scholarships and the Education Board Scholarships should not be amalgamated into one system. You could call them all Junior National Scholarships or Education Board Scholarships. They should be awarded by the Education Boards on the results of a uniform examination, as at present—that is, if the system of scholarships is to be adhered to. As to the total number of scholarships, out of 563 that were held in 1910, there were 172 of the value of £20 and upwards. The remainder were of a less value than £20. I take it that the 172 approximately represented the number of scholarships held by country children in that year. I am not convinced that it is necessary with a free-place system to give scholarships to town children, or children living near towns, unless they be small scholarships, sufficient to pay for books and similar expenses. I consider that the money set free by adopting such a system as that might be devoted to increasing the number of scholarships awarded to country children. Some of the Education Boards have already moved in that direction. The necessity of giving scholarships under the present system is, of course, obviated by the fact that all" those qualified for scholarships can get free places. Personally, I think there is a great deal to be said against the competitive scholarship system. The element of competition, and its effect upon some of the teachers and a good many of the teachers and children, is not altogether healthy. There is also undoubtedly, a certain amount of hardship from the fact that some children may fail to get scholarships, either from the accidents of examination or from the fact that their best qualities are not tested in the examination, while others, either from special coaching, or special aptitude for examination-work, or from other causes, may win scholarships. Again, the standard reached by the lowest scholarship-winners may vary considerably from year to year, so that the degree of merit sufficient to gain a scholarship in one year may not be sufficient in another, even though you take the utmost pains to make the examinations of the same standard, and may succeed in doing so. I think that whether a boy or girl gets the help that is called a scholarship or not should depend solely upon the consideration whether he or she has reached the standard which has been settled upon as the standard for further work in a secondary school or a district high school. It might appear at first sight that it would be opening the door so widely that the probable expenditure could not be ascertained, but that has not been found to be the case with regard to free places. For departmental purposes it has been possible to foretell the number of free places very closely, simply by taking the average of the number of scholars qualified to hold such tree places. In a similar way, having once settled the standard for the non-competitive scholarships, you could ascertain very closely the number that would probably gain those scholarships and take them up. I prepared a report on this question for the Minister some years ago, and will lay a copy of that report before the Commission later on (See E.-lc, 1904). In the meantime I can give the figures approximately from memory 1 take it that what would be desired would be to give country children in every respect and equal chance with town children. Therefore we should take the number of free places held by town children, compare those with the number that qualify by certificate of proficiency or otherwise, and take a similar proportion of country who, presumably, if they had a boarding-allowance, would be pretty well on the "same footing with the town children, and take up their free places in something like the same proportion Taking exactly the same proportion, I found, when preparing my report, that some fifty additional scholarships a year would be required. In revising the figures last year I thought that with the increase of population the additional number would now be between sixty and seventy per year and lam sure these figures are not far astray. Forty pounds per scholarship is the highest amount I would propose to give. Personally, I should prefer to make it £35. Thirty pounds would be too low, but £35 might be enough. But, taking the amount at £40, the cost of sixty additional scholarships would be £2,400 a year, or, as the scholarships would be tenable for two years £4 800 in all for additional scholarships. Some of that money—probabl/ half of it—could be saved by reducing the number of town scholarships, or abolishing them altogether—at any rate, reducing them to £5 a year each, to allow for books and other requisites. The State would then have to find £2,800 a year in excess of what is found at present. In 1910 about £9,200 was spent so under the system I have outlined the cost would be about £12,000. Having established your standard—not. a very difficult thing to do if there is uniform examination, or a uniformity in the standard of the certificate of proficiency—every child who came up to that standard would be entitled, if his or her parents desired it, to get a scholarship, which would carry with it main tenance money and also a free place. As a matter of fact, the Boards have not found it possible to award scholarships up to the full extent of the moneys they might use. It is very difficult to spend all the money that is allotted for scholarships, because many scholarships are allowed to fall vacant, from various causes. So that really the increase is rather less on the estimates than even £2,800. I am quite aware of the argument that is sometimes used that many town parents have to make sacrifices to keep their children at secondary or technical schools. It is perfectly true that they have to make some sacrifices—they have to sacrifice the wages that their children would otherwise earn. Touching upon what is perhaps a political question, I do not think we outrht as a community, to give our sanction to the sacrifice of the children in order to help their families*
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to maintain themselves more oomfortably. 1 think the problem ought to be solved in some other way. However, I will not touch further upon the political side of the question. The point of the argument is this : You would not make the town parents sacrifice more than the country parents if you paid merely the cost of maintenance of the child from the country. That is one reason why I should not make the allowance for maintenance too high. At the same time, you should make it high enough to prevent poor country- parents having to find hard cash to pay for the maintenance of the child in town. He will already have to find more in clothes and in other ways apart from mere maintenance, and I do not think the conditions are so unequal that you should not pay the full cost of maintenance. I put the amount at £40, because that is the lowest amount that any secondary boarding-school, so far as I am aware, charges for board. I do not think it is desirable that country children should go to unlicensed boardinghouses, where they have no opportunity for evening work, and no proper supervision. They should go either to houses attached to the school, or houses licensed and preferably- under the supervision of a teacher. Therefore you would have to pay a sufficiently high allowance to make it worth while for the highschool authorities or some other proper person to carry on such hostels or boardinghouses. That is the suggestion I would like to see carried out. 48. Mr. Kirk.] Would you differentiate between country children with respect to the financial standing of their parents? —No; I do not believe in "poverty scholarships." On that point I feel very strongly. I have had a good deal to do with poverty scholarships in the Old Country. For one thing, it is very difficult to arrive at an exact estimate of the financial position of the parents. There are so many people who take a liberal view of their own impeeuniosity—who consider that they have less than a certain income when they have advantages that would really bring them into the same financial position as others. It is difficult to take account of the size of the family. It is difficult to take account of the many financial responsibilities which are hard to put down on paper; it is extremely difficult to run a "poverty clause" scholarships scheme satisfactorily. 48a. Would you be in favour of granting a wealthy man in the country a scholarship of £40 a year in respect to his child —placing him on the same footing as the poor man?— Yes, but the proportion of children of wealthy people who get scholarships is extremely small, and under a qualifying scholarship system it would be smaller still, because some of them now get an advantage in being coached. Under the qualifying scholarships system it would not pay to coach. I hold that under a proper system of taxation, which I presume we must assume to exist, the rich would have to pay in another way. 49. In Wellington you spoke of the teaching of arithmetic and grammar especially. As head of the Education Department have you made any representation to Ministers with a view to having the defects you spoke of removed? —The syllabus has been under review for some time past. It has been discussed by the Inspectors' Conference and by the Educational Institute. Ido not like to plead guilty to lapse of duty, because I do not feel guilty; the matter has been crowded out by other things. What the Inspectors and teachers ask for is very little alteration in the syllabus, hut a rearrangement to make the work more definite. 50. What do you propose by way of remedying the defects complained of J —There are certain things that 1 would cut out of the arithmetic. I think there are too many rules taught. In the last revision of the syllabus I would have made the alteration if I could have been sure of the support of the Inspectors and teachers. I did go as far as I thought the people were prepared for. They are all prepared to go further now, and lam prepared to go on with it, and get out the proposals in the course of a few months. Copies would then be sent to the Education Boards, the Inspectors, and the Educational Institute for their remarks. On the return of their replies, if there were any serious differences we should try to arrive at a compromise. 51. As we have to report on the subject, would you give us your views—especially your views as to how the defects in the teaching of grammar and arithmetic could be removed? —It is easier to speak as to arithmetic than as to grammar. Standard Vis the first place where I would make an alteration. I would still further simplify the requirements as to vulgar fractions. I would still further restrict the percentage subjects —interest, insurance, and so forth —if not cut them out altogether from Standard V. Still more would I simplify those same things in Standard VI. I would cut out troy weight. I would not insist that the pupils should know the meaning of ratio, though they ought to be able to use it, recognizing that the abstract idea is distinctly one that comes more naturally in the secondary period- —the period of adolescence. Then the cards issued by the Department might be considerably reduced in difficulty. Those are the principal things I can point out at present. 52. Would you substitute anything else for those things, or simply eliminate them?—l would not substitute anything else. I would make the arithmetic sound on a few basal principles. What I want the pupils to do is to be able to apply the principles to simple cases. 53. Are you satisfied that the present syllabus gives a reasonable guarantee that the pupil is being turned out trained to use his brains? —I do not think any syllabus can give a guarantee. I do not think the syllabus is the most important thing. The most important thing is the teacher. 54. But the syllabus is laid down. If you depended upon the teacher solely you would require no syllabus?—l should like to have such good teachers that we should need no syllabus beyond a very general indication of the work to be done. I should like to be able to put the whole syllabus on four pages. 55. Have you any recommendation as to that?—l do not think we should be quite prepared for that. Our best teachers are quite prepared, but we have many teachers who have not the experience or the skill that would enable us to leave them so largely unguided. 56. Assuming that the teachers had a freer hand, how would the question of examinations be affected? —I think the less importance we attach to examinations the better, so long as we have
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certain necessary tests. If we did not constantly resist the tendency to increase outside examinations—l am speaking as a member of the teaching profession—we should kill education. One of the greatest enemies of education to-day in New Zealand and most other countries is the craze for examinations —outside examinations. 57. Would you say that the pupils in the New Zealand schools are overexamined ?—I think -they are, but they are examined less than they were. It is the public that demand examinationsit is not the fault of the teachers. 58. Have you considered the question of the introduction of leaving certificates acceptable to the University authorities as a means of entrance to the University?—l believe in it very strongly. I believe that leaving certificates are worth more than the Matriculation Examinations as a sign of fitness for University education. We have made provision for leaving certificates and we give them. 59. The Do the University authorities recognize them as being a sufficient substitute for matriculation?— No. The question whether the matter should be referred to the headmasters of the secondary schools was defeated in the University Senate three years ago by one vote. 60. Mr Kirk.] You think the certificate should be accepted by the University?— Yes; what we call the higher leaving certificate should be accepted. 61. Is there, to your mind, sufficient teaching of history and civics in the schools at present? —I do not think there is. I think it would be sufficient if they did all that is indicated in the syllabus. 62. Do you think history and civics should be taught more in the schools than they are?—lt is difficult to make a generalization, because the schools differ in practice, and you can hardly average it. Some schools do the absolute minimum, and others hardly seem to touch the subiect at all. J 63. From the information you have gained, would you recommend that further efforts should be made to teach the subject?—l think the matter should be emphasized more. That is one of the casesin which I do not think you can do much more through the syllabus unless you require history definitely as one of the subjects for the certificate of proficiency. Now it is merely classed with several other subjects. Let me refer you to clause 19, which defines the certificate of proficiency. After stating how many marks per cent, shall be obtained in English and arithmetic, geography and drawing, there is a general subclause to the effect that the pupil must satisfy the Inspector that he has received sufficient instruction in the ether subjects as required by the regulations. Amongst those subjects is history. I think we might name nistory in the list of subjects, as we do geography. Civics and history are one subject. I hold that history gives examples for illustrating civics at that stage, for you cannot go into the philosophy of history then. 64. As to vocational courses, is it not a fact that in most secondary schools students are being turned out unfitted to pass examinations which are, so to speak, the "open sesame" for their vocations in life—for instance, for the pass for law or medicine?—lt is rather the other way. There are more of them who take the general course than the other courses. 65. More for matriculation, for instance?—We must take them in proportion to their numbers at the schools. In proportion to the number of those taking vocational courses, not quite so many matriculate, but more qualify for the future professions, because at the schools, and in the courses in which the teaching is directed most to the passing of examinations, a good many pupils pass matriculation; but it does not lead to anything—they do not go on to the University, and are never likely to go. You have increased the number passing matriculation by the number to whom, in my opinion, you have given a wrong education. 66. Do you not think that, just as in Germany, where children are allowed to choose early in life what might be their course, and failure follows, so in New Zealand, where the optional subjects are being taken earlier in life, there may be failure also ?—Germany has less choice of vocation than any civilized country that is really a well-educated country. A parent has to choose when his child is nine years old—or, in some cases, at twelve —whether he will send it to a gymnasium or not. 67. My point is that the choice should be made later in life?—lt is made later here than in Germany. 68. If in New Zealand we are opening the door still wider, and boys are allowed to choose printing, and typewriting, and dairying, and agriculture, is it not a fact that some boys mayfancy farming who may ultimately choose medicine as a life vocation?— That is quite possible; but I do not see how you will help it by making a boy who is going to choose farming refrain from taking a course that may help him by and by. 69. Would it not be better to lay a foundation which will allow of the boy passing an examination which will enable him to go to the University than to teach him subjects which may ultimately be of no use to him, and debar him from taking the course he would otherwise take so as to get to the University? —My answer to that is that you have no business to have a lot of examinations on entrance to a profession, many of them unsuited to the profession itself. Why need a lawyer or a doctor know anything of Latin? There is no necessity for these things in their professions. Much better to have a good general education—to make use of the time he now gives to Latin grammar—for he seldom has more than a scrap of Latin grammar and one author —by taking other culture subjects or professional or vocational subjects. What I said the other day was that, as one who has given a certain amount of time to science, even apart from educational work, I am convinced that a boy can get from the course in elementary agriculture as good a training in scientific method as he can in the more academic subjects, and if you have given him that training you have done all that you can do at that age.
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70. You said you did not believe in a bread-and-butter education, which would mean the sacrificing of mental training for considerations of more immediate utility. How do you reconcile this with the teaching of vocational subjects?— They are not bread-and-butter subjects. A bread-and-butter subject is a subject which may be turned to immediate cash value without necessarily giving the student even anything of the principles underlying his proposed profession. The vocational course takes the ordinary subjects, and relates them to his everyday life. A man or boy may take up agricultural science instead of magnetism and electricity, because the life around him is agricultural. In training a farmer you can give him as good a training in scientific method as in anything else, and he becomes fit to go on to another line of science. 71. The Chairman.] You could carry that a little further, and say that where a district is supported by a particular industry the vocational course there should have relation to that industry? —Yes, if it is the dominating industry. 72. Mr. Kirk.] Can there be reasonable teaching of agriculture in a primary or a secondary school? —I distinguished between the two the other day. I said that in a primary school it was an extension of nature-study, especially associated with the school garden; in such work the pupils become acquainted with the life of plants. That is part of pure science. 73. Which would be applicable to others —those going in for the agricultural course?— Yes, as a general training for life. 74. Apart from that, can reasonable agricultural teaching be done in the primary schools? Would it not be better to leave it for the technical schools, and not take up the primary and secondary syllabuses unnecessarily?—l would not leave the primary course without scientific training. The two important things are the mother-tongue and science. There are really only two subjects in a school —language and science; arithmetic is part of science. 75. Does not a science, to be taught properly, require a science teacher? —Yes; that is why we require all teachers to take science. 76. Are you getting sufficient of them?—We are getting more and more of them. 77. Is the inducement you are holding out to them to take up the science course sufficient to induce brainy men to take up that course? —You do not require a very highly qualified specialist to teach science in the primary schools. What you do want is persons who have got hold of the scientific method. 78. I am speaking of the secondary schools? —In the secondary schools we get more of them. It is partly the fault of the University that we do not get sufficient trained science teachers. For years the University has made the science degree much harder than the arts degree. But the necessity would still exist if you had difficulty in finding teachers. You would have to make more effort to find teachers. I would not propose to cut out science because you find it difficult to get teachers. 79. Is there a dearth of teachers efficient in teaching science? Is there any difficulty in getting them I —There are not as many as we should like to see; but there are a great many more than there used to be. 80. Then, to your mind, the inducements are sufficient?—l do not think they are, quite. 81. Have you any recommendation to make upon that point?— The community must make up its mind to raise the salaries of secondary-school teachers. 82. The Chairman.] In other words, you must hold out the hope of promotion to the man who has the qualifications?— That is so. The number of headmasterships is very limited, and they cannot all look forward to such positions. 83. Mr. Kirk.] In what relation to life, in your opinion, does the study of the classics stand? —I think that the opinion of many leaders of education nearly all over the world is now that the study of the classics is distinctly a special study. It is less and less looked upon as an instrument for general education. I should like to say that I began my study of classics by taking Latin at the age of seven. Most of my life up to the age of twenty-one was taken up with the study of Latin and Greek. I had a fairly complete classical education, as it is called, so that I am not speaking without a sympathy for the classics. But I hold, with an English headmaster who has made the latest declaration on the point, that for the average boy we are making a mistake in teaching him Latin—we are wasting his time. It is a special study, I hold, and I should be very sorry to see the standard lowered for those who take it up as a special study. I would not cut it out of the curriculum, but I would leave it as an optional subject in the secondary schools. I would keep it for those who are going on to higher work. 84. The Chairman.] But would not the professional courses require Latin?—l think we ought to review considerably the conditions of entrance to the professional courses. Latin would be required for the entrance to the course in which a man would take up pure classical learning. I think we should leave it in. We must have some optional subjects, and there are some whose tastes would lead them to it at an early age, but I would let students take a modern language first. 85. Mr. Kirk.] Are you satisfied, and, if not, why, that the teaching that is going on is sufficiently correlative between school-work and life-work?— You do not specialize in the primary course. Even what is called elementary agriculture is not specializing, but only putting the students into close contact with their environment. 86. Let the question relate only to the secondary schools?— Speaking generally, T do not think it is. 87. what recommendations have you to make to ensure that result?—l suppose you consider that it is a desirable result?—l hold that it is a desirable result. I consider that there ought to be several optional subjects such as I have indicated. I have indicated a general course, in which you could include Latin as one of the optional subjects, But I do not think- Latin" is the best classical subject. In my opinion Greek is far better.
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88. As the State's corrective school discipline ends just at the time when the life of the boy or girl is changing, is it desirable, in your opinion, that some compulsory system of continuation classes should be made general, so as to keep their minds employed? —You have given grounds on which I should say yes, but there are other grounds on which I should say that you must educate public opinion first. I believe it ought to become compulsory, but I also believe that if you get too far ahead of public opinion you will put off the reform for many years. You may lead public opinion, but if you get out of sight of public opinion there is no chance of its following you. I believe the best way is the way in which we have made a small beginning in New Zealand, making it depend upon local option. It began that way in Switzerland,' and is still carried on in that way in Switzerland. It began that way in Germany, and in some parts of Germany it is still carried on so. Local option in the matter failed in some parts of the United States, and that is the dreadful example against it. 89. Assuming that the control of education was given over entirely to the Education Boards, should the powers of the School Committees be widened or restricted, or have you any suggestion to make with regard to the School Committees' powers?—l think the Committees might become somewhat modified. I am afraid that I think their powers ought to be lessened in one or two respects, but in some ways they might be extended. 90. Of course, the demand is that they should be extended? —I think that the Committees as a matter of fact —I do not say as a matter of law—have too much voice in the choice of teachers. I do not say it because of any want of capacity on their part, but because of their want of knowledge. They cannot possibly know. 91. Mr. Pirani.] Have they any voice? —I do not say they have as a matter of law, but as a matter of fact. 92. Is it not the way the law is applied by some Boards? —I think the Committees in some parts of the Dominion have too much voice in the selection of teachers, and the misfortune arises not so much because they are not competent, as because they cannot possibly know. 93. Mr. Thomson.] Will you explain the law as to the appointment of teachers as it now stands? —It is contained in three long sections of the Act. Section 55 of the Act as now amended lays down the method. If it is proposed to transfer a teacher the Board has to send to the Committee the name of the person proposed to be transferred, together with a statement of his or her service and qualifications. It consults the Committee in this way. In any other case the Board sends a list containing not more than four names of the teachers it considers best fitted for the appointment, stating their length of service and other qualifications, and if applications have been invited it shall also send the list of applicants. In all cases the Board shall give notice to the Committee. In case the Committee expresses its opinion, the Board, having received that opinion, or given the Committee an opportunity of expressing its opinion, makes the appointment. 94. The GhairmMn.] Is it not the case that where four names are sent to the Committee and the Committee makes a recommendation out of the four the Board can set aside the recommendation? Can they legally refuse? Can you tell us of a case where the recommendation of a Committee, after four names have been sent down, has been set aside —where a Board has gone against the recommendation of a Committee in favour of an individual named in a list of four?—My knowledge in regard to matters of that kind is only hearsay. I have no direct official knowledge, but I have heard of it. But that was prior to the present Act coming into force. I do not remember any such case since the present Act came into operation. 95. Mr. Pirani.] Subsection (c) is very clear. It says, "In any case in which the number of names in the above-mentioned list is more than one, the Committee shall select one of the persons named in the list, and shall in writing notify the Board, not later than three days before the day on which the appointment is to be made, of the selection so made, and the Board shall appoint the teacher so selected "I —That is mandatory. It was put in at the last amendment of the Act. It might seem to be better as a matter of policy to send on more than one name, but I have no hesitation in saying that I think the provision you have just read is a mistake. I think the Board should have the final power of appointment, but the Committee should have an opportunity of expressing its opinion. 96. The Chairman.] The Committee should send back the names, with its recommendation; but the Board should have the right of veto, if for good and sufficient reason ?—Practically, but I would not put it in that form. 97. Mr. Kirk.] You are decidedly against extending the powers of Committees?— Yes, in regard to the appointment of teachers, because I consider that they are not in a position to judge. They are only in a position to get private evidence, or hearsay evidence, more or less remote, or else the evidence of those who interview them. Some of those influences would not necessarily lead to the appointment of the best candidate. 98. You have probably read in the newspapers criticisms upon the policy of establishing so many small schools, and the contention that instead of opening so many schools greater facilities should be given for the conveyance of children to more distant schools. What have you to say on that point?—l agree very much with the idea. I think the advantages where the roads are good is very great indeed. If you were to provide proper drivers and establish the system of proper vans it would be an extremely good thing. But it would not be possible everywhere in New Zealand. I know of one very notable case upon which I had to report at one time. I addressed a meeting of the inhabitants of the district, and the idea was scouted by them. The district was one of the best roaded in the South Island, so that leliance could have been placed upon vans at all times. There was also a railway-station opposite the place where it was desired to build a school, so that the facilities for getting to the train would have been equal to those for getting to the school. Moreover, the train would arrive at a station five miles away where there was a large
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and good school at twenty minutes to 9, and there was another train leaving that station at a quarter to 4. There could not have been any conditions more perfect, yet there was strong opposition to the idea of conveying the children by train. The settlers got their new school; but I consider .that it was a bad thing for the children, and that the building of the school was waste of money. But the people were very strong in their feeling that they wanted something local; as long as they do not have to pay anything for it the settlers of every little hamlet will put on very strong pressure to get their own little school. 99. As the cost of teaching engineering is necessarily very great, would it not be preferable to have one recognized school of engineering in the Dominion, and by means of scholarships assist the students to attend? —Yes; I have gone very fully into that matter. We are recognizing provisionally in Auckland the classes in engineering that are to some extent of University rank, or are said to be of University rank—recognizing them temporarily, because otherwise we might shut out students from any education of the kind. But there is a recognized school in connection with the University — recognized by the Institute of Civil Engineers, by the Institute of Electrical Engineers, and by the Institute of Mechanical Engineers, so that it has an Imperial standing. I think the best way would be to pay for scholarships at that school. The Canterbury School of Engineering has already cost over £30,000 for building, equipment, and apparatus. They are going to spend another £5,000 on apparatus and equipment, which will bring the cost up to nearly £40,000. The interest on £40,000 at 5 per cent, is £2,0*00 a year. The expenditure on salaries and upkeep at that institution is now nearly £4,000 a year. Probably when it is fully equipped and fully worked the cost will be £5,000 a year. Thus you have practically £7,000 a year. The school is turning out professional engineers, not merely workshop foremen. In the three branches I do not see how the requirements of New Zealand could possibly reach thirty professional engineers a year. Taking the number at thirty, each qualified engineer would cost over £200. 100. The Chairman.] Can you say how many students there are at present?— There are two kinds —diploma students, who do not get the degree, but get the diploma of Associate of Engineering, and those who do get the degree. Those who get the diploma of associate are recognized by the Institutes to a certain extent, and the degree itself is recognized entirely. From the report I find that twenty matriculated students were studying last year for the University, and the total number of students was twenty-six. The course is four years, so that is only about six a year. 101. Mr. Kirk.] I take it that there must be some necessary overlapping in the Dominion as far as the teaching of engineering is concerned? —The professional course is not taken anywhere else, except as regards certain subjects in Auckland. 102. Not in the technical schools?— That would not be overlapping. Engineering subjects ought to be taught in the technical schools, because we have all the stages below that of the professional engineer. In most of the older countries the professional engineer reaches his final qualifications by a different road altogether. He begins by a thorough scientific training. He gets a longer training in pure science, or he goes through the University, whereas the number who become professional engineers by going through the workshops is quite small. But I should open the University engineering school to the clever workman who has shown in the workshop and in the technical school his fitness to enter the profession. I consider that there should be an engineering school for apprentices and foremen even where there is an engineering school of University rank, perhaps in connection with the latter. 103. Is there any overlapping in Auckland, for instance?—l do not think there is. If there were, the Minister has power under the Act to refuse to recognize the class. The very reason whyhe is recognizing the engineering classes at the University, is that the standard is different from that of the technical schools. 104. Is there no overlapping in Auckland as between the University and the Technical School? —Yes, but I do not think it should lead to the establishment of an engineering school in Auckland. T know that that is contrary to the opinion of some people in Auckland, but I put my objection on the ground of expense. It would be better to give a student from Auckland sufficient money to pay the whole of his expenses in Christchurch. 105. Mr. Wells.] Would you carry that to the associateship standard?—l should like to know what course it was—whether it was the sort of training that would lead on to the professional engineer. I think that every kind entraining should be given at the technical school, and that there should be those schools wherever there are engineering-works. 106. Mr. Kirk.] As to the cost of administering the Department, are you satisfied that value is being obtained by the State for every pound spent upon the Department in its various branches, or have you any recommendation to make?—lf you mean the personnel, I am asked to give evidence on that very point before the Public Service Commission. 107. I mean as to the education system ?—I think it would be better if a little more were spent upon the Department. 108. Do you think the Central Department is undermanned? —I do. I think that the heads and the semi-heads of branches have to work so much outside recognized office-hours that it should be more fully manned. 109. Mr. Wells.] As to the revenue from the reserves, would there be any gain in grouping the reserves?—AH the education reserves under the first head I gave are managed now by the Land Boards. 110. Could all the reserves be under the management of one body?— The reasons for that would be a land question, not an education question. 111. Could they be administered by the Boards? —The Boards do not deal otherwise with land questions, and questions of tenure and treatment of tenants, whereas the Land Boards do. If I were a member of an Education Board I should not want to have anything to do with land.
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112. Mr. Thomson.] The High School Boards manage their own land?— Yes, some of them manage them exceedingly well, but all do not. 113. Mr. Wells.] Can you suggest any improvement in the system to enable them to get a better return ?—I am afraid of anything that looks like pooling reserves. 114. Could not the tenure be improved?— They can all have the same tenure. Any High School Board can come under the clauses of the Public Bodies' Leases Act, and get all the powers given under it. 115. You have no suggestion to make as to how they could get better returns from the reserves? —I say, let them all come under the Public Bodies' Leases Act. Make it compulsory if you like, but you might have to alter some of their special Acts, because if one of those Acts conflicts with the Public Bodies' Leases Act the special Act runs, not the Public Bodies' Leases Act. 116. You told us that the primary and secondary education in New Zealand costs 18s. Bd. per head of population, and in New York £1 Is. 7d. AVhat is your opinion as to the efficiency of our best schools as compared with their best schools? —Our best schools I should not be ashamed of. If you take two or three of their schools, which are model schools, they are better than anything we have. 117. Take the average work? —The good schools of New York are better than ours in some respects, and ours are better than theirs in others. It is very difficult to sum the matter up. Their teaching of English is better than ours, but all good schools in America are ahead of England and of most other countries in the world in the teaching of the mother-tongue. 118. What can you say as to the relative cost of building in brick and in wood?—lf you take it per cubic foot, the cost of wood is from 6fd. to 7d., except just around Auckland, as against 9fd. to lOd. for brick. Per square foot of floor-space, if the building is not too high, the cost would be about lis. Id. for wood, and 15s. lOd. for brick. You have to add a little more for the cost of the desks and furniture. In Auckland, according to recent tendering, the cost of building is much higher. 119. Bearing in mind the extra cost of upkeep and sinking fund in the case of a wooden building, is it cheaper at present prices to build in brick? —In most places it is. Long before a wooden building is worn out it will have eaten itself out in the cost of maintenance. There are other considerations that enter into the matter besides the question of cost. It is better to build a temporary school in wood than in brick. Some people are afraid of earthquakes, but that matter would not alarm me. The fact that by building in brick you are guarding against fire far better than you can in the case of a wooden building far outweighs any danger from earthquakes. That danger is greatly exaggerated. 120. Are you prepared to advocate the inspection of all private schools?— They are subject to inspection now if the proprietors like to make them so. 121. The Act says that the head teacher of such a school " may " apply for inspection?— But look at the definition of " efficient instruction " in the Act. Section 150, subsection (5), says, " For the purposes of this section, ' efficient instruction ' means such instruction as is prescribed by regulations, and, on and after the first day of January, one thousand nine hundred and eleven, means efficient instruction as prescribed by regulations and given to children in their own homes or in a school subject to inspection under this Act." Then section 170, subsection (3), says, "A school inspected in accordance with this section shall thereupon be held to be a school subject to inspection under this Act." The teacher asks for inspection, and the Board must inspect it. That is. the only wav in which a school can become " a school subject to inspection." If it does not become a school subject to inspection the instruction given at it is not considered efficient. That is the way in which the law compels a school to be subject to inspection. 122. Is that the actual force of it? —That is my reading of it. 123. The Chairman.] What was the intention? —The intention was to make it compulsory. 124. Is the effect to do that?-—I think so. 125. Then, until the managers of a private school apply you are powerless to interfere?— Yes. It is not a school "subject to inspection," and therefore the education given at it is not efficient, and you can prosecute the parents of any children who attend it. There should be inspection of the buildings also. 126. Is there any power in the Ac* to compel efficient teaching in such a school?— The Act says " such instruction as is required by the regulations." It depends upon the Inspectors' opinion as to whether there is such instruction. 127. Mr. Wells.] I believe that in one of the Australian States every person engaged in education must have a certificate of efficiency : would you advocate that system for New Zealand ? —It is only a back door out of it if you register practically every teacher. They do not have to be certificated teachers. 128. Do you not think that every one engaged in teaching should pass some test, and hold some certificate?— That is ali very well theoretically, but in that case how are you going to get enough teachers for your schools? 129. Those who are engaged in primary schools are under the eye of the Inspectors. There is some guarantee that efficient teaching is going on?— These are also under the eye of the Inspectors. 130. The Chairman.] When you get the declaration of the Inspector, what power have you to get the instruction in the schools made efficient? —That is a matter of the powers of the Boards. 131. Mr. Wells.] You suggested that the Education Boards should have general control of the primary, secondary, and technical education in their respective districts : would you include Native schools also?— The Boards are not in too much of a hurry to take Native schools over. 132. Can you tell us how the cost of Native schools compares with the cost of those under the Boards?— You would have to compare them with schools in very scattered districts. There are none within reach of the other schools. I will take out the figures if you desire it. We are not
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always quite ready to hand the Native schools over to the Boards when they are prepared to take them. It takes a little time to become a good teacher of a Native school, if it is really a Native school, where the children speak Maori in their homes. As soon as the majority of the children in a school speak English at home I would hand them over to the Board without hesitation. That is our practice, but the Boards are not always ready to take them. 133. Would you allow special representation on the Boards for each of the branches —primary, secondary, and technical education ?—lf the Boards were elected in the way that I would suggest. I think each branch should have a representative on the Board. 134. Would you favour allowing the teachers of the district to have representation? —I would not allow any one in the employ of the Board to have a seat on the Board. I would have the teachers represented, but not by any one holding office. They might be represented by an ex-teacher if they liked. 135. You are acquainted with the promotion scheme of the Auckland, Wanganui, and Taranaki Boards : would you be prepared to advocate that the Boards throughout the Dominion should be required to have such a scheme of classification, and promote from it?—l think they might very well learn from the experience of the places where it seems to have worked well. 136. Do you not think it should be possiWe to deal more quickly with growing schools in the matter of staffing and accommodation? —I do not think you could get anything much quicker than the tables of staffing provide for. 137. We have had to wait three months in the case of a large increase? —The Department has gone into the matter of the scale for large schools. A sudden increase otherwise entitling a school to an additional teacher means only the addition of two children per teacher. What does that matter for three months? 138. It is found to be a grievance in the Auckland District. We have a number of very rapidly growing schools? —I should like to have specific cases. Edward Ker Mulgan, M.A., examined on oath. (No. 2.) 1. The Chairman.] What are your qualifications?—l am Chief Inspector of Schools employed by the Auckland Education Board. lam a graduate of the New Zealand University. 2. You know the order of reference of the Commission. We would like you express any opinions you may hold in reference to the several headings there given? —First of all, 1 am very pleased indeed to be given the privilege of coming here and allowed to express what views I have on the subjects that will engage the thoughts of this Commission. The order of reference is a very wide one, and I do not think that in the few remarks I have to make I shall wander outside it. The first matter I would like to bring under notice is one that has engaged the attention of teachers, and, indeed, of education authorities, for quite a number of years, and is of such importance that I would like to refer to it at some length. It deals with some kind of scheme for the promotion of teachers throughout the Dominion. It is nothing new. Several Boards have endeavoured to introduce such a scheme, but, of course, the scheme they have introduced applies to their own district only. The Auckland Education Board has a grading scheme of promotion in regard to its teachers. A number of headings are taken, and under these headings the qualifications of teachers, so far as the subject of the heading is concerned, are estimated in figures. For instance, we assign a certain number of marks to personality, to power of discipline, environment, length of service, and so on, and these marks are added up, and the totals obtained from the addition of these determine the place on the general graded list or on a special graded list that the names of the teachers occupy. When appointments are being made here applications are called in the public Press, and the teacher whose name stands highest on the graded list so far as any special appointment is concerned is the teacher who is appointed. lam afraid that is a little confusing. What I mean to say is this : There is a general graded list and special lists which refer to special appointments and certain grades of schools. For instance, there is a list which refers to the appointment of assistant teachers who would be competent to manage a large infant department. They appear on a list by themselves, and if such an appointment were vacant the teacher who stood highest on that list would get the appointment. I understand the Wanganui Board has a scheme of the kind. Indeed, I believe it was the Wanganui Board who was first in the field so far particular scheme is concerned. I do not know if anyother Boards have adopted the scheme, but I do think this, and I think a great number of other people think it also : If we can extend the scheme and get a Dominion scheme of promotion adopted in some way or other, it would be a matter of great importance to the whole service. Our service would benefit immensely, for many reasons. I cannot help feeling that there is a great deal of unrest amongst teachers, both here and elsewhere, so far as promotion is concerned. There always will be unrest, of course; we shall never be able to remove it altogether; but we ought to do anything we can to reduce it to a minimum. I feel that if we had a scheme of this kind the various districts would be able to discriminate between the claims of those applying within their own borders and those who applied from outside. That is an important matter. Teachers would have a much better chance of moving from one district to another, and in one way and another the service would be better satisfied. I feel strongly that if we are to get the best work out of our teachers we must make them satisfied. If they are discontented or dissatisfied, either with their present positions or with their prospects, then I hold we are not getting the best out of them, and so it is for this reason as much as any other that I hope this Commission will take into consideration the desirability of endeavouring to formulate, or to take evidence, on some scheme of Dominion or national promotion. If I might be allowed to make a few suggestions as to the details such a scheme might take, I would say this : First of all we want to get an expression of opinion from Inspectors and teachers as to the details of a grading scheme. Some common scheme of grading or promotion might be prepared by a Dominion committee of
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Inspectors and teachers. Each education district might be represented by an Inspector, and eacli Island might be represented by, say, five teachers. If that committee were to meet it could lay down rules and formulate principles for a grading scheme. Having done that the next thing would be, I think, to set up a grading board. . The Dominion committee would then have done its work. The grading board might consist of either an Inspector from each district ' with the Inspector-General of Schools, or it might consist of, say, three Inspectors from each Island, with the Inspector-General of Schools. If it consisted of the three Inspectors then I think the Education Department might be asked to make the selection of the officers required. I do not think I would include teachers on the grading board. I think I would leave them out in my proposal. Now, that grading board would meet once every year in Wellington. Then the several districts in New Zealand might be asked to grade their teachers within their borders. The Education Boards could undertake the grading of teachers within their districts. These graded lists, which would be made out in terms of the recommendations of the Dominion committee, would then be forwarded to the grading board. The grading board would then proceed to arrange in order of merit from these graded lists the teachers whose names appeared thereon. The grading board would also have power to alter or amend the grading of any teacher, and the altered grading would remain in force until the next meeting of the grading board —in other words, for a year. On matters having reference to the general graded lists of teachers, the decision of the grading board would be final. Finally, I would recommend that a copy of these general graded lists should be sent to each education district in New Zealand. You might say to me, How is that a system of Dominion promotion? Ido not think it is at all, but I do not know that we can at this stage hope to get any complete system of Dominion promotion. I do not think we can unless our Boards were done away with and the whole education of New Zealand centralized. What we could do would be this : We could get these graded lists, and each Board would then be able to compare the teachers in its own district with the teachers in other districts, and would be able to make the appointments accordingly. I am just as well aware as anybody of the great difficulty there will be in preparing the graded lists. Ihe standard differs very much from district to district. An Inspector in one district might take a very lenient view of what is required of a teacher, and an Inspector in another district a much more exacting view; and so in some districts the marks might be much more liberally given than in others. I knowthat is a very serious difficulty, but I do not think it is a difficulty that cannot to a very great extent be overcome, and I do think it could be overcome in some such way as I suggest. The next matter I would like to draw attention to is the awarding of scholarships. That has already been dealt with by the Inspector-General of Schools this morning. I may say that what the Inspector-General said this morning was said by myself nearly two years ago here. Of course, Ido not for one moment mean to suggest that I was the first person who thought about it. The great point is to get the matter brought forward and discussed. I feel strongly that something of the kind should be done —that the scholarships should take the form of boarding-allowances to country children who have to live away from home. Ido not know whether anything was said this morning as to whether the Inspector-General would make any distinction between the holders of Senior Scholarships and the holders of Junior Scholarships. I would be inclined to make such a distinction, and to do away with the scholarship allowance so far as Junior Scholarships, Board of Education Scholarships, and National Scholarships are concerned, and allow the Senior Scholarship holders either to receive the amount they at present receive, or something like it. All these National, Education Board, and Junior Scholarship holders, I think, should receive a free place, plus a boarding-allowance if they have to live away from home; but any Senior Scholarship holder, I think, should receive something in. addition to that—say, £8 or £10 in addition to the boar ding-allowance. The reason I think the Senior Scholarship holders should receive this is that parents have to make a somewhat greater sacrifice in allowing a Senior Scholarship holder to attend school than in the case of a Junior Scholarship holder, especially if these parents are living in the country. If a boy sixteen years of age is living with his parents at home he can be of considerable use to his parents after school hours or before school hours. If, of course, he is living away from home the parent is deprived of his boy's or girl's services altogether, and these services are more useful after the boy or girl reaches the age of sixteen or seventeen than they are at the age of twelve or fourteen. Are we to give this allowance, if we decide to do this, to everybody who has qualified for a senior or junior free place? Not quite to everybody. To all those, as the Inspector-General said to-day, who reach a certain standard of education, and I think that standard of education might very well be that which is implied by ability to pass the Junior National Scholarship Examination. All the pupils who are able to pass that examination, I think, should receive free tuition, plus a boarding-allowance, if needed. 3. What qualifications would you say —60 per cent.?—l would take the same qualifications as the Department has laid down —I think, 50 per cent, of the total marks. I next wish to refer to the staffing of schools. A great deal has been done by the Inspector-General of Schools in the matter of giving a more liberal staffing than we have had previously, but notwithstanding the fact that our schools are staffed according to the regulations, some of them, I consider, are still understaffed; because, although it is quite true that if we were to take the total number of teachers and the total number of children in our district and do a division sum, we shall find that no one teacher has to teach a large number of children —I forget exactly how it works out —yet we find in some of our large schools as many as sixty or seventy, or even more, children in some classes. I need hardly say that is far too many children for a teacher to do justice to, and although I may be told that the teachers get assistance in the form of pupil-teachers from time to time, yet, after all, of what real assistance can a pupil-teacher be? You cannot break up a great class like that, and give half or even a portion to the pupil-teacher. As a matter of fact, this is sometimes done : the brightest pupils are given to the pupil-teacher for instruction in certain subjects, leaving the
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duller pupils, the greater portion of the class, to the assistant teacher. I do not think that is fair to the pupils, and so we want a more liberal staffing in our schools. I know there is a great deal of difficulty in this matter. A great difficulty arises from the supply of teachers with which we have to be satisfied. I think lam right in saying that all districts are experiencing a considerable amount of difficulty in filling up positions in their schools —positions in sole charge of schools and positions of assistants in schools where there is a staff. I cannot help feeling that the cause of this short supply of teachers is partly the length of service involved in the preparation for the work of teaching. A boy passes the Sixth Standard at the age of fourteen. He goes to the secondary school, and is there four years before he matriculates, leaving at eighteen years. He then spends two years in a primary school as a probationer, which brings him to the age of twenty. He has then two more years in a training college. That is to say, he is unable to earn more than a bare living before he reaches the age of twenty-two years. 1 think that is one reason. Then, I think another reason is that we do not pay enough; our salaries are not sufficiently high. You remember quite well that some years ago a Commission sat to inquire into the salaries paid to teachers in New Zealand, and compare them with the salaries elsewhere. As a result of that Commission the salaries paid to our teachers were considerably increased, and we were all very glad that it was so. But, after all, whether the Commission had sat or not, the salaries of teachers would have had to be increased. Ido not think we could have obtained a sufficient supply of teachers to man our schools had we gone on paying our teachers what we did before. I think that is one of the things that simply would have been forced upon us whethe] wo wished it or not, partly owing to the increased cost of living and partly owing to Uic reduced purchasing-power of money. The cost of living has been increasing since then, and wages have been going up in all employments, and so I feel we are not paying our teachers and assistants enough. And the third reason is that I do not think we have' in our service a sufficient number of prizes. Indeed, I would go. further and say 1 do not think we have any prizes at all in our service. Ido not wish to introduce personal matters in speaking here, but 1 consider that the head of the whole service in New Zealand —the Inspector-General of Schools — is grossly underpaid, and that our head teachers are underpaid. A head teacher, if lie be successful and able to get into one of the larger schools, gets £400 a year, plus a house allowance of £50, but he has to be six years in the highest grade before he can get that. That means to saythat he cannot possibly look forward under any circumstances to getting more money than £450 a year, and there are, comparatively speaking, only a few such positions in New Zealand. You know what an incentive it is to work if people think they have a chance of doing well in the future. You may say there are a great many people in other kinds of work who are not earning anything like that. That is quite true, but they have always a chance of earning more. A doctor or a lawyer or a member of any of the other professions may not earn as much as that, I know, but each has always a chance of earning a great deal more, and it is just that chance that induces a large number of people to take up work of the kind. These are the reasons, I think, why our supply of teachers has become so short. That leads me to another matter, and it is this : Certain pupil-teachers have been withdrawn or will be withdrawn from certain grades of schools. All pupil-teachers from schools of Grades 5 and 6a will have to be withdrawn by the beginning of next year. Now, the training college receives its supply of students partly from pupil-teachers and partly from probationers who are employed, and partly from those who have had no previous experience as teachers, and are known as B students. There are other students who rind their way into the training college, but these are the main sources of supply. Now, doing away with the pupil-teachers in schools of Grades 5 and 6a will mean that, so far as this district is concerned, and I have no doubt so far as other districts are concerned, there will be considerably fewer pupil-teachers available for studentships in the training colleges. Ihe Department has given us no indication of what it means to do to make good that deficiency—that is to say, it has not told us whether it means to increase the supply of probationers—and some of us "are beginning to think —perhaps we may not be correct in our surmises—that the Department is looking B students as the individuals who will fill the training colleges. Now, a B student is a"student who passes the matriculation or higher examination, and obtains admission into a training college, but he has had no previous experience of teaching. If I may be allowed to express my own opinion in this matter, I do hope that the Department is not thinking of reducing the number of probationers. I think all-people in this part of the world who think seriously about these matters are of opinion that it is a good thing that the pupil-teacher should gradually disappear from our public schools. Whether the time has arrived, however, for doing away" with our pupil-teachers or not I am hardly prepared to say. In Auckland we have a great deal of difficulty in obtaining suitable people to man our sole-charge schools and smaller schools, and, indeed, to act as assistants in country schools. Now, we are asked to find for schools of Grades 5 and 6a a number of assistants by the beginning of next year. We certainly shall Jae able to find these assistants, but means we shall have to withdraw from our supply of teachers a number of those who otherwise would have been sent into the country, and for that reason I do not know whether it would not have been wise, so far as Auckland is concerned, to continue these pupil-teachers in schools of Grades 5 and 6a for a year or two longer. The training colleges have to be filled, because we are all crying -out for teachers throughout New Zealand, and it is to be hoped that the supply of teachers will come from the increased supply of probationers. There will be no doubt, I think, in the mind of anybody that a training-college student should have some knowledge of teaching, of the practical work of teaching, before he enters the training college I think all people are agreed about that. He profits far more by the instruction he receives if he is able to consider it in connection with the practical work he himself has been called upon to do or to witness. Now, I may be told that he gets that practical work in the training college and is asked to do it there, but I cannot help feeling that the conditions are not the same in a
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training college as they are in an ordinary public school. The student in the training college is working under what I may call more or less artificial conditions. His classes are small; he is not asked to control a large number of pupils as teachers in the public schools are. He is working constantly under the eye of the class teacher, and hence the necessity for discipline or control is hot needed to the same extent as it is if he were working in a public school. So for these reasons I-do not think that the kind of experience he gets from that point of view is to be compared with that which he would derive by going through a course of training in a public school, and it is for these reasons that I think the idea of appointing probationers to public schools such an excellent one. The probationer is not asked to do much teaching. He has to give instruction during the first two years, and at the end of that time he is in a condition to profit greatly by the instruction and training he receives in the training college. 4. Do you mean all these schools associated with the training college?— No. Probationers are appointed to schools of various grades for two years, and if they qualify they are admitted to the training college. Here is another matter. The Inspector-General, in his evidence in Wellington, rightly laid a great deal of stress on the teaching of agriculture in our schools; but are we doing sufficient in the matter of preparing our teachers to give this instruction? I am referring now to the training college. I am not at all sure in. my own mind whether we should not do a little more in the matter of providing suitable courses for teachers whilst going through the training colleges. I may be told the Boards of Education in various districts should do that, but I think myself this training in agriculture is a matter of such importance that it would be better to some extent to make it compulsory so far as the Training College Regulations are concerned. If it is compulsory, more should be done in the way of making the training practical. Wkat I mean is this : Take our own training college. In this training college students are instructed in agriculture, but there is no plot of ground in connection with the training college sufficiently large to enable the practical work that is needed in agriculture to be profitably carried on. I think that is a matter that should be insisted on. How far the Department is going to insist upon it Ido not know. Ido know that last year the Department pointed out to the Board that there was no such plot of ground, and that the Board endeavoured to get a plot of ground, but as a matter of fact no plot of ground so far has been secured. I think, moreover, it would be a wise thing to endeavour to make some provision whereby students in the training college could be enabled to attend the Lincoln College or some similar institution. There is no reason why female students in the training colleges should not be granted facilities, if they wish, for taking up a course of domestic science such as may be obtained in the Otago University. If a certain number of scholarships were set apart for deserving students each year, at any rate a few of our students would receive this thorough grounding in practical agriculture, which I consider necessary if we are to do justice to the subject. Another matter is this : Our head teachers are required from year to year to hold a certain number of examinations from period to period. They are required to map out schemes of instruction, and during the course of the year to hold not less than three periodical examinations. Now, the head teacher of a large school has an immense amount of clerical work to do. If he conscientiously carries out the instructions and examines the school it takes him a long time to do it. Ido not myself see that there is a great deal to be gained by this constant examination of the children by the head teacher, and so 1 think it would be a wise thing to do away with one of these periodical examinations. I would not do away with them all, because the public must have some safeguard that the work of the school is being efficiently carried on; but I certainly think that two would be quite enough. I went away this morning just as the Inspector-General was beginning to talk about compulsory attendance, and I followed with a good deal of interest the remarks of the previous witness. We are beginning in Auckland to seriously consider the question of compulsory attendance so far as private schools are concerned. We intend, I hope, to apply the compulsory clauses to the private schools. There is one thing 1 do not think was brought out this morning, and it is this : A portion of section 151 of the Education Act reads as follows : " Head teachers of private schools may apply to and receive from the Chairman or Secretary of the Board a general certi ficate of exemption," &c. I think that word "may" should be "must" or "shall," and 1 will tell you why. You may say to me we are able to get at these schools and insist on their coming in. That is quite true if we know of them; but it is quite possible in a town as large as Auckland for a private school to -Isxist without the education authorities knowing about it. I have lately found out about several small private schools which I really knew nothing about before. Now, I think that if the word " shall " was substituted for " may " the effect would be that every private school would have to register. They would come out into the open, and the Boards of Education would be given a chance to find out whether they were efficiently taught, and whether the attendance was regular. It would be a very simple alteration in the Act. Here is another small matter, but it is of small matters, after all, that our Education Act and regulations are made up. We are paying to our pupil-teachers £25 a year in the first year, leaving out board-ing-allowance; for the second year, £35; for the third year, £45; and for the fourth year, £55. The probationers in the first year get £20 and in the second year £25 a year. If a boy matriculates he ranks as a third-year pupil-teacher, and he goes into a public school, and remains there far two years, and at the end of that time he enters the training college. During these two years he gets for the first two years £45, and for the second year £55 —that is to say, he gets £100 for the two years. If he becomes a probationer he gets £20 for the first year, and £25 for the second —that is to say, £45 for the two years, llie consequence is that applicants invariably choose to become pupil-teachers because they get a great deal more money. Would it not be a simple matter to arrange it in this way? Suppose a probationer has passed his Matriculation Examination, why not give him the salary of a third-year pupil-teacher? I would place him on an equality with a pupil-teacher who has matriculated. If, on the other hand, he has gassed the
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Junior Civil Service Examination, why not give him the salary of a pupil-teacher of the second year? The pupil-teacher has to do more work of a kind, but I do not know that he has to do more work in the aggregate. The probationer is supposed to do and does actual teaching for three hours a day, but he is not supposed to be idling for the other two hours of the day. He is supposed to be observing or doing preparation-work. There is just one other subject, and I have finished. Something was said this morning about examinations, and I was delighted to hear the Inspector-General express himself as he did. I think Mr. Kirk asked if there were not too many examinations in New Zealand. I have no hesitation in saying that I believe we are an overexamined community. Our children are examined, so to speak, from the cradle to the grave. All the way through the primary schools the}' are examined, and at the end of the primary-school course they are examined by an Inspector, and get a proficiency certificate. They are examined when they get into the secondary schools. At the end of the year, following each other by a period of only a few days, we have the Junior Civil Service Examination, the Matriculation Examination, and, a year or two ago, the Board Senior Scholarship Examination —that fortunately has been done away with —and the Term Examination. All these examinations come one on top of the other, and some of them are entered for by the same pupils. 5. Have you not exactly the same thing running through your University course —overexamination? —Yes. What is the result of all this? The real objects of education tend to be lost sight of by the pupil, the teacher, and the public; and the tendency is to consider the examination as the end of education. An examination, I need hardly say, is an extremely useful thing. You cannot do without tests of some kind. They are useful to teachers in order to enable them to take stock of what has been done, and to the pupils also; but if they are overapplied, then the drawbacks are very serious. I cannot help feeling that we are being overexamined, and I think it is very likely that in some districts in New Zealand there is too much examining going on so far as the primary schools are concerned. I think lam right in saying the Department has discouraged this overexamination of primary schools. But there is a great temptation to examine. It is very much easier to go into a primary school and set certain questions in arithmetic or composition, and test the pupils in that way, than it is to go into a school and take a class or lesson in arithmetic, and judge of the efficiency of the teaching by the way in which that class deals with the problems and matter put before them. It is in some such way as that that the examination of our public schools should be conducted in the future. 6. Mr. Pirani.] In regard to the Auckland Board, can you explain why it is necessary, if you have a promotion scheme with all the teachers classified, to call for applications for vacancies? Does that not block the back-country people who do not see the invitation to apply from getting a chance to do so?—lt is done for one reason. I may say we have not tried any other plan, but we feel that if we did not advertise, then we would not know what teachers wished to be appointed to what schools. Suppose the Blur Spur School were vacant, there might be a number of teachers on our books eligible, but we might appoint a man who did not want to go. 7. Would not the fairest system be to start at the top and go down the list until you got a teacher who would go? —I think that is the fairest system, but I feel we would be a long time in filling our appointments. We have a great number to fill. In regard to what you said about out-back teachers, we allow teachers to apply by wire, and we allow a sufficient time to elapse to enable the teachers to be notified by newspaper advertisement of the vacancy. 8. Do you send to the Committees the name of one teacher, or four names, as required by the Act? —One only. 9. The Chairman .] Is there no objection on the part of School Committees to the adoption of this scheme? —Quite a number of School Committees have objected, but, on the whole, they are satisfied with what we are doing. 10. The larger proportion are satisfied ?—Yes. 11. Mr. Pirani. ,] How do you find the classification work out in actual practice? Do you think you get very nearly the abilities and qualifications of a teacher under the classification scheme?—lt has been in operation here for nearly three years, and, so far as I am able to judge, we do. The Inspectors are satisfied, and the Committees are satisfied, and the teachers are absolutely satisfied. 12. What provision have you got in your system for teachers objecting to their classification? How does he know of the classification ?—He has a copy of his own marks forwarded to him. 13. What provision is there for objecting?— His letter of objection comes in, and it is considered by the Inspectors and by the Board of Education. 14. Have you any provision for reducing the classification of a teacher if he turns out not to be as efficient as you thought he was? —Not from one period of grading to another. 15. Would you reduce if you found a teacher was not up to the standard you thought?— Undoubtedly. The grading of each teacher is reconsidered every two years, and the name of that teacher would come up again and would be considered. If we had any new light as to his efficiency or want of efficiency, we would give effect to it. 16. In regard to the term examinations by teachers, you think perhaps we could do away with one of these; but is it not to an enormous extent at the discretion of the teacher whether he makes it a set examination in every subject or not?— That is quite true to a very large extent, but he is obliged to make it a set examination, inasmuch as he is asked to assign marks to each pupil. 17. Take, for instance, reading and writing : ought not a teacher to know what the qualifications of most of the pupils are if the work has been done regularly, without having a set examination? —The class teacher might do that, and then it becomes a question as to whether the head teacher should acept the opinion of the class teacher in an important subject of that kind or not. 18. Is it the custom in your district for the head teacher to make individual examinations of every class? —Yes,
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19. Do you not think it would be a good idea for the teacher to exercise a certain amount ojLdiscretion as to making individual examinations?—l do. I think it might be reduced in that way. 20. Do you think there ought to be a certain amount of discretion with the head teachers .to-pass the duties on to their assistants ?—I certainly do. 21. Has it not been the custom in the past, before the regulation came into force, despite the fact that the Inspector held an annual examination, for the teachers to hold examinations themselves at intervals of their pupils' work? —Yes. 22. So this regulation has really not increased the examinations?—lt has increased the clerical work. Previously the examination-results were not taken down in the careful way they are supposed to be recorded now. 23. But suppose the papers are not kept, and the answers are not kept, and the results are not kept, what facilities have you for ascertaining them ? —lt is part of the duty of an Inspector when he goes to visit a school to inquire into the periodical examinations, and ask to see some of the papers and answers. 24. Do you think it is possible for an Inspector to check all that work? —Certainly not; just as he cannot possibly examine all the pupils in the school. He would call for certain papers for certain classes, and judge that way. 25. Is it the custom in this education district for teachers to give the pupils problem books in arithmetic and the answer books, so that they will simply do the working ? —lt is not customary here. * 26. Do you not think that in the case of the smaller schools, say, of Grade I and Grade 11, the Inspector should conduct the examination under the old system as it used to be, instead of leaving it entirely to the teacher, with just a check from the Inspector?—As a point of fact, the Inspectors do that. The Inspector goes into a small school with only- a few children, and he practically examines them all. I think the only case where an Inspector should examine all the children in a school is where an extremely inexperienced teacher is in charge. The object would be to show the inexperienced teacher what is expected in the matter of knowledge, and during the progress of the examination to direct the questions in such a way as to demonstrate to the teacher how the subjects may be dealt with in teaching. 27. Regulation 9 says, "With a view to ascertain the individual progress of the pupils, the Inspector, where he considers it desirable, may hold an examination of any class in the school on the work done in the class during the current year or during the preceding twelve months. Such examination will be held by the Inspector after consultation with the head teacher, if circumstances permit, and after consideration of any examinations which have been held during the preceding twelve months by the head teacher or the teacher of the class." Do you think the Inspector has time to go through all that rigmarole before he gets this examination? —I think the regulation simply means that the Inspector has to satisfy himself as to the desirability of holding an independent examination before he does it. If he is satisfied that an independent examination ought to be held, this regulation gives him power to hold it. 28. Do you not think it would be much better to have the teachers classified as capable to make these examinations themselves and the teachers classified whose pupils ought to be subject to examination by the Inspectors?— The Chief Inspector, with the other Inspectors, decides whether a school should be fully examined or not. 29. Beforehand? —Yes, beforehand. There are certain schools about which the Inspector will receive instructions from the Chief Inspector, and these he determines to examine beforehand. These are schools known to be relatively inefficient. 30. The point I want to ask about is whether there ought not to be some better system of dealing with it. The objection to examinations seems to be because of the trouble it gives teachers, but I look, at examinations from the point of view of the pupil. Supposing a teacher is not doing his work by the pupils—fortunately there are very few cases, but there have been some —and is shirking in every possible way what he ought to be doing, do you think he ought to remain until the time when the Inspector comes there, when in some cases he will not have more than half a day to ascertain whether that school is efficient? Do you think that is sufficient?— Yes, I do. If you mean that it would be a good thing for the Inspector not to allow a school of that kind to stand over for a year before being tested, Ido not know how you are going to manage that. Of course, it would be better to go and test that school earlier in the year rather than wait five or six months, but how is the Inspector going to do it? He has not time 31. Do you not think this would be an improvement: that the Inspectors in conference should classify certain teachers as those who ought to be entrusted with the work of examination, and certain teachers as those who ought not ?—They would still have to work until the Inspectors got round to examine them. 32. I mean that you should exempt the schools classified as efficient. And more than that, it is very seldom that an Inspector has more than a day at a small school; and if an Inspector found out that the school was being taught inefficiently, surely that is the time to start and examine it right through himself?—No, because what would be the object of examining it right through himself if he is satisfied that the teaching is inefficient? That is sufficient. It is then for him to recommend to the Board, and for the Board to make some alteration in the teaching arrangements. There was one question you raised which I might just explain. In one of our regulations our Inspectors are obliged, as a general rule, to pay two visits to a school in the year. I think it is a great pity there is any such regulation. I think it is a pity that the Inspectors have not got the option of leaving out schools from year to year. There are in all education districts a number of efficient schools that might very well be omitted so far as the visits of the Inspectors are concerned. They might be visited every two years. There are splendid schools doing really good
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work, which might very well be left alone for a year or two. The only objection is the difficulty that would be experienced in grading teachers on the staffs of these schools. But we cannot omit these schools, on account of Regulation 1. I have no doubt all the Boards are anxious to carry out the regulations, and feel they should provide for two visits, but that means that in hurrying from one school to another an Inspector cannot spend sufficient time in certain schools where their presence is required. 33. Then you think that Regulation 1 might be modified to make visits twice a year optional? —Yes. 34. In regard to private schools, do you think it would be possible in the present state of public opinion to compel by penalty private schools to subject themselves for examination?—l would use the word " inspection." An Inspector should go there and inquire into the efficiency of the school. 35. Do you think that the inspection should cover, as well as the efficiency of the teaching, the buildings and appliances?— Undoubtedly. I do not think you can have efficient teaching unless you have proper appliances. The State is prepared to give efficient instruction to its young people. If a private individual comes in and says, " I will provide this instruction," then he ought to do it as efficiently as the State. We ought to insist on that. 36. Do you think the difficulty in getting a supply of women for teacherships is as great as getting a supply of men?—No; on the whole, we have greater difficulty in getting men. 37. Do you get sufficient applications from girls for the vacancies generally?— Yes. 38. Do you think it would meet with the objection to ike present scale to teachers if the payments to men were raised, if it were not possible to raise the payments to both ? —I think if you have to make a choice between the women and the men it would be better to give the men the additional pay; but I would sooner see the addition given to both. 39. But the great want is male applicants?— Yes. 40. Mr. Wells.] This is the largest of the educational districts?— Yes. 40a. Have you found it unwieldv?—Yes, in this way: It is very hard for me, as Chief Inspector of Schools, to have a personal knowledge of many of the teachers. It is quite impossible to have a personal knowledge of all; and the knowledge I possess of the teachers here to a very large extent I gleaned from the experience I had when travelling round the country doing the work of an Inspector. 41. Still, with a strong inspectorial staff, I suppose it would not be a serious disadvantage for the Chief Inspector not to know each teacher? —I do not think it would be. 42. As to the unrest you spoke of among the teachers in regard to promotion, is not that unrest mainly evident in the smaller districts? —I think it is, but of course there will always be a certain amount of unrest. There will always be those in the teaching service who think they have not climbed as high up the steps of the ladder as they deserve. 43. If the education districts were larger, do you not think that one of the difficulties of which you speak would disappear?— How are you going to enable a teacher to get from one district .into another? We are constantly faced with that trouble. 44. There are at present thirteen education districts. Suppose we had six or four districts, then there would be a number of prizes in each district to which all in that district could look forward. Would that not do away with some of the unrest or a large amount of the unrest?— Yes, I think it would to some extent; but would not the other be a much more efficient remedy? Suppose that the teachers all over the Dominion could feel that they should have a chance to get from one education district to another, and suppose that every teacher could feel that he or she was in the field for all the so-called prizes, the unrest would be much more likely to be eliminated. 45. The Chairman.] You mean that if a teacher is a unit in a national system instead of in a sectional one he would have more to look forward to? —Yes. 46. Mr. Wells.] Do you not think that the division of the Dominion into larger education districts would be a stepping-stone to that? —Yes, I do. I have thought for a long time that the whole of the education districts ought to be put into the melting-pot and their boundaries redetermined. 47. Can you give us any indication of what you would suggest in regard to improving the syllabus?— Briefly speaking, it might be improved, and would be improved, in my opinion, by altering the arithmetic and making it, as the Inspector-General said this morning, simpler— leaving out some of the things he mentioned, and also dividing it up in such a way as to ease Standards II and V. Too much is expected in these two classes. 48. Would you simplify the geography programme at all? —I would alter it. I would not make any distinction between Course A and Course B. 49. Would you propose to strike out any of the mathematical geography that is now being taught?-—I would not. lam not a great believer in striking out so long as y r ou give the teachers the option of utilizing the various suggestions made. The course of geography suggested in the syllabus is not intended to be mandatory. 50. You have mentioned the payment of teachers, and I can quite understand that you do not care to say anything about the payment of the inspectorate. Do you mind telling the Commission whether you do not think the inspectorate should be the prize in the profession—that the pay of the Inspectors should be such as to tempt the very best men in the profession into the inspectorial ranks? —I am dealing with myself more or less personally. I do think so, and for that reason I referred to the case of the Inspector-General of Schools. I think that in his case that applies with far greater force than in the case of an Inspector of Schools employed by a Board of Education, 51. Some little has been said about the shortage of teachers : do you think it would be practicable to import teachers who have been through a training course at Home, and are young enough
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to be adaptable to circumstances?- —There are great difficulties in the matter of importing teachers. It is a matter that I have thought about a good deal in the last year or so, because of our shortage here. First of all, the shortage of teachers is in no way connected with our larger schools. We can get plenty of teachers to come to our larger schools, or to take up positions within reach of the towns, and if we got young people from Home we would have to send them to the back districts. That is where the teaching service is short of men and women. I feel, first of all, that we do not know much about these young people, and that when they got out here they would be disappointed if they could not get a school near the towns. We constantly have teachers coming out here from Home and applying for employment, and almost without exception they refuse to go away from the towns. 52. Can you tell us whether the Auckland Board has experienced any difficulty in getting grants for buildings in the backblocks : has there been any delay? —I really cannot say. 53. Can you tell us anything in regard to help in growing schools. Do you think it is given soon enough?—No, Ido not think it is. I know it is a difficult question, but I think, myself, that if a school is growing, and rising from one grade to another, and if the Inspector is satisfied that the increase will be permanent, then the addition to the staff should be made then and there on his recommendation. 54. Have you thought at all about the centralization of rural schools, and whether it would be practicable to any extent in this district? —Yes, I think it would be practicable. For instance, in the Waikato and other districts, where the roads are good, there is no reason at all why the children should not be brought in to a centre. 55. What is your opinion about the efficiency that would result? —1 think the efficiency could not possibly fail to increase, and on the score of economy I believe the country would gain. 56. With regard to examinations, do you think it would be possible to have what is called the accrediting system, by which the pupil is allowed to go on on the certificate of the head teacher without submitting to examination ? —Yes, I do. 57. In other words, you would cast upon the headmaster the responsibility of certifying whether an individual pupil was fit to go on ? —Yes. 58. That would be a privilege I suppose you would not give to all schools? —That is so, and a privilege that at any time might be withdrawn. 59. I think you said you were prepared to advocate the abolition of the visit with notice? —I did not make any distinction between the two at all, but I would like the clause to be altered in such a way that it would not be necessary for an Inspector to visit a school twice a year. 60. Mr. Kirk.] You are doubtless acquainted with the system of arithmetic adopted in the Horace Mann School, in New York? —Only in a general way. 61. Is that the system of teaching arithmetic you would like to see adopted here? Is that what you meant when you spoke of practical-arithmetic teaching?— Not altogether. I think we might alter our arithmetic s}dlabus in the direction of shortening the syllabus, and grading it better. 62. Do you know whether the school-books for the respective standards now used in Auckland are the same as those used in Otago or Canterbury or Wellington? Are there universal schoolbooks? —No; the books used vary from district to district, but one of these arithmetic-books is used pretty well all over New Zealand. 63. Is it desirable there should be a universal set of books?—l am a strong believer in allowing the teachers to select what they like themselves. 64. There is the objection that has been raised by parents who are living just over the border from one district to another, that if they have to shift their children have straight away to get another set of books. Do you think that objection does not override the general statement you make?—No, because that would not very often happen, and the number of books they would have to replace would not be very many. Still, that is an objection. 65. Can school life be improved by a furtherance of the library principle?—Oh, yes. 66. Would you be in favour of the introduction of general school libraries in connection with the classes? —Of course, a good deal of that has been done in this and other districts. There are libraries not only connected with the schools, but libraries connected with each class-room, which is, of course, the proper thing. That is in answer to the question of libraries connected with a particular school. There is another'and wider question of libraries to which a number of schools would have access. 67. There are such libraries in some of your schools?— Yes. 68. Speaking from your experience, can you say if any good results have come from such libraries ?—Of course, it is very hard to gauge such results, because they do not declare themselves for years; but we know in many cases that these libraries are largely taken advantage of by the pupils, and we can presume that the books they are reading are of service to them. 69. The children are really making use of the libraries? —Undoubtedly. 70. To a great extent?—To a large extent. I have heard one or two teachers state that now and then the interest in the libraries begins to wane, and what is done in these circumstances is that the teacher will close up the library for a month or two, with the result that the interest comes back again. 71. Is there any matter that has come under your knowledge whereby the administration of the Act by the Education Board in your district may be improved, or where the Act might be administered more sympathetically so far as you, or the schools, or the School Committees are concerned? —I really cannot think of anything further than the matters I have brought forward already. 72. Mr. Poland.] Do I understand you to say that, in your opinion, rather much time is given to the teaching of arithmetic by the regulation ?—I implied that. Of course, if you make the syllabus difficult, there is a good deal to be taught, and excellent though it is, it means that a good deal of time must be taken up to satisfy the Inspectors at the examinations.
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73. Arithmetic is a compulsory subject now for most of the examinations—the Sixth Standard proficiency, the Junior and Senior Civil Service Examinations, and the Matriculation also? —Yes. 74. Do you think that a simplification of the syllabus and a reduction of the time devoted to arithmetic is going to enable pupils to pass examinations without that being a compulsory subject, or would you be in favour of doing away with the compulsory nature of arithmetic? —I would be in favour of simplyfying the syllabus, and not forcing candidates to spend the same amount of time in preparing for it. 75. What would you give that time to?—To English or science. 76. Would you mind giving us your views in regard to rural courses for schools, and the syllabus proposed by the Department?— The rural course for schools applies to the work that is done in district high schools, and it was formulated with the object of giving the work done in these schools a more intimate connection with that which a boy or girl will immediately take up after leaving the school. So far as I know of the course, and I know of its operation in two districts, it has been of very great value to the pupils. I may say that the introduction of this course — not here, because the ground was partly broken before I came, but in the district from which I came —was opposed by teachers, and I understand that in other districts it is opposed by teachers who like the old course, which led up to the Junior Civil Service Examination. I cannot think this rural course is a good course for enabling students to take a high place on the examination list, but I think it is an excellent course for preparing them for the work they take up immediately after leaving school. 77. Do you think, because a child is going to a district high school in the country, that necessarily his future profession will be in connection with agriculture?—No, I do not. 78. Then, the rural course as laid down seems to cause a good deal of the time of a child to be devoted to subjects that will be of no advantage to him at the examination for which he must sit, say, for the Junior or Senior Civil Service or Matriculation, and therefore do you not think the child is handicapped in passing these examinations? —Yes. In some districts, notably the Wanganui District, there are two courses which run side by side in the district high school, one having matriculation and the other rural courses. The Board reserves to itself the right of saying what pupils shall take up the Matriculation course —it will not allow the pupil to decide that— and some modification of that might very well be adopted. 79. Do you think if a child passes the Sixth Standard proficiency in the time specified in the Act that the Board should usurp the right of saying that that child shall proceed at that district high school to qualify for the Matriculation Examination?—l do not. I think some modification of that plan would be excellent. 80. A boy on leaving a primary school with a proficiency certificate and presenting himself at a district high school can, under the proposed course, either take agriculture or chemistry or a commercial course or a rural course? —That depends on the teacher at the high school, and it depends on the course of instruction given at the high school. There are district high schools in this district where there is no rural course given, and a boy could not get it there. I suppose what you want to get at it this : should a child going to a district high school be compelled to take a rural course? 81. What I want to get at is this : do you think that the rural course, which is made compulsory practically in the district high school, debars or handicaps a child who wishes to qualify for either a Junior or Senior Civil Service or Matriculation Examination as compared with a, child in a city school?— Undoubtedly I do. I consider a boy going to a high school like the Auckland Grammar School has an infinitely better chance than a boy going to a technical day-school or a district high school. But, after all, what is a district high school for? Is it not for giving the best possible training we can to the greatest possible number of people we can get to profit by it. The training that the pupils get from a rural course is far better for them, whether they are going to become farmers or not, than the training they would receive through preparing for the Junior Civil Service Examination. It is an extremely useful training for anybody, whether they are going on the land or not. 82. You know that the regulation provides that four hours shall be devoted to English and certain other times to other subjects there specified. Do you not think that English, with four hours per week, is receiving its fair proportion ?—That may be so; but, after all, was not that a suggested course with which the Department would be satisfied. Ido not think it is a mandatory course at all. 83. Was it not adopted by the Auckland Board?—No; I think we modified it. We have only twenty-five hours in the week, and while we would like to give more time to English we cannot do so if we have to teach the other subjects. 84. Do you not think it is more necessary that a child going to a primary or district high school should receive a thorough education in English?—l think more time than four hours per week should be given, but I do not think we can do it. There are other subjects which come under the heading of " English," such as civics and economics. 85. Do you think that one hour per week is sufficient in a high school for arithmetic, one hour for algebra, and one hour for geometry?—lt depends on what you are going to do with the subjects. I do not think of these subjects as leading to the examination at all; I look to them as leading to the mental training and development of the child. 86. But, at the present time, is it not a fact that a child who wishes to obtain a position in the Government service must pass an examination ?—Yes. 87. And under the proposed rural course, is it not more difficult for a child to do that?—lt is more difficult to obtain a high place on the Civil Service list, but not more difficult to pass the examination. 88. You know the appointment of a child to the Civil Service depends on his place on the list? —To some extent.
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89. And that if the child is net chosen the first year his name drops out, and he must pass the examination again? —There is another thing we forget. We are told that a great number of these pupils who go to the district high school do so with the object of sitting for the Junior Civil Service or Matriculation Examination. I believe that is quite true. Why do they? 1 think the reason is that they have never had a proper rural course in the past. It is only of "late years this course has been provided. I think when pupils and parents begin to realize the importance of this agricultural course we will get a great number of young people who have not gone to district high schools at all. There is a vast number of people we have not reached in the past. 90. The In other words, in the past the Civil Service Examination was the onlyobjective ?—Yes. 91. Mr. Poland.] You must educate the parents to your views, or they will go for these certificates largely in order to provide their children with positions ?—I think it far better to give this course to the larger number of children we are attracting to district high schools than to prepare a few children for examinations. 92. That is so, if your premises are right; but is it a fact that you are attracting children to the high schools now for the sake of the rural course or for the sake of the examination? —For both; but we are attracting a number by means of our rural course which otherwise we would not have got at all. I cannot speak of what has been done here, because we have not adopted this rural course to any extent. It has been in operation in only two schools here; we have not had the equipment before. 93. Mr. Thomson.] I would like to ask in what respect you think school instruction can be improved and made of more practical value in equipping pupils for their future careers : whether you think the existing system is perfect or imperfect—if perfect say so, if imperfect, indicate the main imperfections which have appealed to you in the course of your experience, and suggest what remedies? —I think the answer to that question lies in the introduction of a greater amount of practical manual work into our schools. 94. Do you mean by that the system of manual and technical instruction now in force ?— Yes; I mean many of our schools here give instruction in woodwork and cookery, but I think that should be extended. I think instruction of that kind should reach the children in the country. 95. Do you believe in nature-study? —Yes, thoroughly. 96. As an expert in education, you can honestly recommend that to all the parents throughout New Zealand ?—Undoubtedly. 97. Consequently, you believe that if a child has gone through a course of nature-studies the next course should be a course in agriculture to all children, irrespective of the calling they are going to follow in after life? —Yes. I must explain that, because I cannot answer that question in a single word. I think that training in agriculture, which is a training in elementary scientific method, should be given to boys and girls. That is quite apart from its utility value. 98. You are aware there is a great deal of apathy existing in the country, particularly amongst the farmers, who think that this education should not be imparted, but you would strongly recommend that as a means not only of teaching agriculture, but as a means of teaching science? —Not to teach science, but to try and induce in the individual a scientific aspect of mind. 99. At any rate, that is the only way, in your opinion, by which we can induce a large number to take an interest in what is the primary industry of this country?— Yes. 100. It is a matter of observation that the trend of population, particularly among the young, is from the country to the town, and New Zealand being rather a farm than a manufactory, you would recommend, I take it, that our system of education should be so arranged, if possible, to attract into the country by increasing the inducements to go into the country? —Yes; giving the children a bent for rural life. 107. Do you not think, then, that if we want to encourage children to follow rural or agricultural subjects that it would be better to place them higher on the examination-list for the examination Mr. Poland mentioned, and give more marks for them? —Yes, in general I do think that; but I would do it in a different way. There are certain practical subjects the children take up at the district high school for which they get no direct credit in the examinations. I would attach a certain number of marks to these subjects, and do it that way. 108. You would strongly recommend that?— Yes. 109. I suppose you are aware that 54 per cent, of the boys and 53 per cent, of the girls leave school without passing the Sixth Standard?—l have never quite got at the position. 110. That was the position in 1910. Would you infer from that that the children are kept too long in the lower classes?—l think generally the children are kept too long in the lower classes. Whether that can be helped or not just at present it is difficult to say. You see, in a district like this, where there is a great number of small schools, and little children have to travel long distances to school, it sometimes happens that these children are a longer time in getting through their classes than they would under more comfortable conditions. I think the reply to your question is this : there are great inducements given to young people to begin work. They can earn good wages. Another thing is that the standard of comfort in New Zealand is relatively high, and it becomes indeed a necessity at times for parents to insist on their children going out into the world and earning at an early stage. I think the parent is quite as much to blame as the child. 111. It would be very desirable, would it not, if we could increase the percentage of the boys and girls who pass Standard VI? —Most desirable. 112. Do you think that one fixed minimum of salary is practicable in the absence of any scheme of centralization —I am referring now to the small backblock schools particularly?—l would pay to the backblock-school teacher a higher salary than he now receives. 113. I suppose you have read the remarks of Mr. T. S. Foster, Chief Inspector of Schools in North Canterbury?— Yes, I saw them.
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114. You see he holds the opinion that it is impracticable?— Yes, but I do not think so. 115. I asked the question because there is a growing demand that the teachers in the backblock schools should be of superior quality- than the present, and the only way to get superior teachers is for these small schools to pay what is, relatively speaking, a higher salary than that received by the teachers in the more centrally situated schools? —1 would not advocate that, but I think teachers of aided schools should receive more than they at present receive. It is altogether a question of finance. 116. How do the schoolboys of the day compare with the schoolboys of thirty years ago?—l think, speaking generally, the schoolboy of to-day is better equipped for the work of life—l think, more intelligent. 117. You are aware of the statement of tradespeople that the schoolboy coming out of the primary school is in a very unfit condition : you think that statement unwarranted? —I think it is. The primary school is not supposed to turn out tradespeople, 118. In brief, what is 3'our opinion of the existing syllabus?— Speaking very briefly, I consider the syllabus is a good one, the reason being that it is an elastic syllabus, and allows the teacher a very great deal of latitude; and the Inspector also in his method of conducting tests to gauge the efficiency of the school. I feel sure both teachers and Inspectors would be sorry if the syllabus as it stands at present were interfered with to any great extent. No doubt some slight modifications are necessary. 119. I understand you are opposed to uniform school-books? —Yes. 120. What are your reasons?— For the reason that I think the teacher can teach best what he knows and likes best. I think a teacher can teach from a book he knows and appreciates better than from one he does not. I think also it is a great mistake to do too much thinking for any person, teacher or anybody else. If you prescribe the books for the teacher, he is not required to look into a book for himself and to compare one set of books with another. In other words, it tends to deaden him so far as his knowledge of books and literature is concerned. 121. What has been the result of the Government providing free school-books? Do you find them disused? —No; the result has been that there has been a great deal more reading done in our schools than was ever done before as the result of the introduction of these free school-books. 122. Do you believe in the continuous reader? —I believe in contiuous reading-books being introduced into the schools, but I also believe in the miscellaneous reader. 123. Do you not think that continuous and silent reading is superior to the miscellaneous reading-book? —You are talking about two different things—the reading-book and reading. So far as reading is concerned, silent reading is one method teachers take in order to secure good reading, and it is a very effective method, properly used. 124. Do you prefer the miscellaneous reading-book? —It is very difficult to answer a question of that kind. I would not say I prefer it, but I should be sorry to see the abolition of the miscellaneous reading-book in our schools. 125. You approve of the policy of providing free school-books?— Yes I do, now that the Department has allowed pupils to purchase a certain proportion of their own reading-books. 126. Knowing the feeling of the people in the Auckland District, do you think there would be any great difficulty in establishing continuation schools for instruction in agriculture between the ages of sixteen and eighteen, utilizing the existing building for that purpose?— Yes, I think there would be a considerable amount of difficulty in inducing young people in the country to attend continuation classes. 127. Do you think it premature to make attendance at these continuation classes, confined to the teaching of agriculture, compulsory?— Yes. 128. What do you think is the feeling in the Auckland Education District in regard to the control and administration of education ? ' Do you think the feeling is in favour of a central system or of local control? —I think the general feeling here is in favour of local control. 129. There is no desire to abolish Boards or Committees?— No. 130. Mr. Davidson.] Suppose such a list were made as you suggested, and the education districts remain as they are at present, do you think that would help the teachers in very small districts, such as Grey or Westland, to get out ?—Yes. What happens now is this : A vacancy occurs, and we call for applications. If we get an applicant from one of these districts we have nothing to guide us at present. Supposing the names of our own teachers and his name appeared on a general list, that would be a guide to us as to the relative efficiency of each. 131. In a large district like this j r ou would always have a large number of teachers to choose from, and the chances are surely that a man in Westland who was eligible would have a very poor chance of competing successfully against a teacher in Auckland?—l do not know. Suppose we had a school of Grade 4 or Grade 5 vacant; well, an outsider has little or no chance at present of getting to such a school, although there may be outsiders who are more efficient than the ones who would apply for the appointment so far as our own teachers are concerned. In districts like Westland or Grey there might be efficient teachers who would like to get out, and they might be more efficient than our own teachers; but we do not know, and have no means of knowing. 132. That is possible? —It is more than that. I am thinking of a case that came under my notice the other day. A gentleman came to see me, and he impressed me as being a really good man, and one whom I would like to see in our service, but he told me he would not come unless we could give him a Grade 4 or Grade 5 school. 133. Westland has an average school-attendance of about 1,000 —about as many as you will find in one of the largest schools in Christchurch or Auckland, where you have about 43,000 pupils : do you think it is in the interests of education that there should be such a small education district as Westland is at present?—No, I think it would be better that the two Islands should be divided into a number of districts —say, four districts.
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134. Do you think it is possible or advisable that the Dominion should be divided into four education districts the boundaries of which would be coterminous with the present university districts? —I would have more districts than four. 135. Then, to prepare for the satisfactory working of such a scheme as you suggest, you would certainly wish to see some of these small districts amalgamated?— Not to prepare for the working of the scheme. I think the scheme might prepare for the amalgamation. 136. You referred to the staffing of the schools, and pointed out that in some schools a single teacher is now teaching 60 or 70 pupils in one class? —Yes. 137. Have you noticed that in the scale of staffing that schools with an average of 401 receive no addition to the staff until the average attendance is 481 ?—Yes. 138. Do you think it would be advisable that a new scale of staffing should be introduced to meet the requirements in such cases? —Yes, I think it would be. I certainly think there ought to be another assistant in schools where the average attendance is well over 401, but has not reached 481. 139. Of course, it will be all right when the new scale of staffing comes into operation?— Yes; but there is another question that enters in there. If we are going to put assistants into schools of that grade our smaller schools must necessarily suffer. 140. Is not the number of schools in the unfortunate position of ranging between 450 and 480 in average attendance and getting no increase in staff very small? —Yes, it would not make a great deal of difference. 141. In trying to account for the shortage of qualified teachers, you pointed out the length of service required of a man before he received any fair remuneration for his work, and the poor salary he then received, and so on; but what is your opinion about the difficulties of entering the teaching profession : For instance have you carefully studied the new regulations for the examination and classification of teachers? —Yes. 142. One of the clauses provides that "candidates will be required to produce evidence of having satisfactorily attended approved courses in first aid and ambulance" : do you think it is possible for some of the teachers in the backblocks schools to attend satisfactory courses in first aid and ambulance? —The Department last year allowed us the sum of £225 to enable uncertificated teachers to qualify, and they are allowing us the same this year. We mean to use a portion of this money in providing this necessary instruction for the uncertificated teachers. 143. How will you provide for their going to a centre where such a class of instruction is held? —We are not providing for the expense of travel. All people have to make certain sacrifices in order to get on. There is no reason why in the smaller centres the teachers should not arrange with the local doctors for a course of instruction to satisfy the Department. That should not be a difficult matter to arrange. They are having these ambulance courses in quite a large number of centres —Rotorua, Hamilton, Cambridge, and Whangarei, and centres of that kind. 144. In order to qualify for the C certificate it would be necessary for a teacher to give eighty hours in the year to this work, and some of the teachers in the back districts who hold these certificates are particularly anxious to become more highly qualified; but will it be possible for them to do eighty hours' practical work in these science subjects? —Probably not for quite a number of teachers; but what would happen would be this: they would gradually get away from the back districts. Of course, teachers do that as they get on, and when they are nearer to a centre they can raise their certificate. 145. The Chairman.] How long does it take to get out of the backblocks?—lt depends on the individual and the record he shows. 146. Mr. Davidson.] You would not encourage these people to get their C certificate in order to get out, and the getting of the C is made particularly easy in the training colleges, while it is made particularly difficult for the outsider? —I am sorry that on this particular occasion I cannot agree with you. Ido not think the obtaining of either CorDis by any means made easy in the training college. It is not the examination that counts, but the course of instruction which leads up to the examination, and in the training college here a great deal of care is taken to see that both in regard to preparation and acquisition of knowledge the teachers acquit themselves creditably, and if they do not do that they will not get either C or D. 147. Some of the Inspectors in the South say that it is utterly impossible for some of the backblocks teachers to attend first aid and ambulance classes?—l think that is quite true. 148. And yet an impossible condition is made here for certain teachers. In your opinion, would it not be better if this science were left until a teacher could get his D or C certificate, and then he could afterwards take science and get a certain certificate for it? —What is the object of this examination ? The object is to ensure that the teacher will possess the requisite knowledge for giving instruction in schools, and I do not think any teacher should possess a certificate to give adequate instruction unless he has reasonable knowledge of science. 149. Would you not do what they do in South Australia —issue a provisional certificate?—A teacher can get a partial D. 150. Have you thought it wise to put insuperable difficulties in the way of backblocks teachers? —I should say, in answer to that general question, is it unwise; but I do not think we have put insuperable difficulties in the way of them. It is not possible to legislate for special cases. The great bulk of our backblocks teachers in Auckland will be able to reach a centre where they can get instruction in ambulance-work. 151. Do you think it possible, with the opportunity offering to the individual students in these training colleges in New Zealand, for the students to get sufficient practice in learning to control a class? —I do not know how to answer that question. I think, so far as the control of the class is concerned, that the teacher would probably do better if put in control of a large class and allowed to work out his own salvation, but whether that teacher would eventually be a better disciplinarian I am not prepared to say.
E. K. MULGAN.]
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152. Do you think, if the training-college authorities had the privilege of sending their students to observe the very best teachers in and around the city to work and probably take part in the work of teaching, that would be a help in the direction of giving them the power to control?— I undoubtedly do, and in point of fact it is being done here. We send a few of our best students to certain schools. 153. In regard to free books, we have been told that in numbers of schools in many education districts the shelves and cupboards are filled with books that are not being used by the children. It has been stated that probably 85 per cent, are purchasing their own books, while the free books are lying in the cupboards : have you found that to be the case? —One of our Inspectors drew my attention to that last year, but he saw it in only a few cases in the smaller schools, and we made special comment on it in our Inspectors' annual report. I may say that Ido not think that obtains to any appreciable extent in the Auckland District. 154. Do you know of the experiment that has been tried in Berkley and Concord, United States of America, where promotions are made biennially instead of annually ?—I do not know of them. 155. Do you think it is a matter worth consideration —that is to say, have two sections in each class, in order that the brightest pupils in the class may not be retarded unnecessarily in their progress?— Why should they be retarded? The teacher now has perfect liberty to classify the children as he likes. 156. As an experienced Inspector, do you not think the general practice is to keep a child one year in a class?— Undoubtedly, but there is no reason why it should be the general practice. 157. On the question of reading, the Victorian and South Australian Education Departments have recently issued a new course in the subject of reading in which special stress is laid upon phonics or voice-production : do you think it would be a wise thing to take that into consideration in preparing our new syllabus?—l do undoubtedly, not so much from the reading point of view, because, after all, very few people are ever called upon to read aloud, but from the point of view of speaking. 158. Mr. Hogben.] You know that it was in the amending Act of 1908 that the new scheme of staffing our schools was introduced? —Yes. 159. And you know that the basis of the new staffing when it is complete is a head teacher and one assistant to every fifty pupils?— Yes. 160. And the old basis was one teacher and one pupil-teacher to every ninety pupils?— Yes. 161. With regard to the new teachers' regulations, you think that science-teaching is necessary for a teacher who asks for a full certificate? —Yes. 162. And you think it would be a sham science-teaching if it had not work attached to it?— Undoubtedly. 163. You are aware that the Boards are provided altogether now with £4,000 for the training of teachers —£3,000 is put down for subjects of manual and technical instruction, and £1,000 was the special vote last year?— Yes. 164. You are also aware that these subjects are required in the certificates of practical work, and two subjects of manual and technical instruction?— Yes. 165. So that the whole of the £4,000 can be used by the different Boards for the purpose of training teachers ?—Yes. 166. Have you thought that that would give you in Auckland something like £800 or £900 a year for training uncertificated teachers in future in these subjects? —No, I did not think of it in that way. 167. If you had that money, would it not be enough to pay for something like six or eight weeks at £1 per week per teacher, and to give them full instruction for the eight weeks in the scientific work they have to do?— Yes, it would be enough, at any rate, to supply the instruction, and to pay the expenses of going backwards and forwards to some centre. Their salaries would still go on. 168. I am contemplating the teachers giving up something, perhaps their Christmas holidays, for one year. You are aware that that is done in other parts of the world? —Yes. 169. If they gave up their Christmas holidays once in order to get the certificate required, and worked five hours a day for eight weeks, they would get a good start in elementary science?— That is a long time to ask them to work. 170. Do you think they would object to do that if they really wanted their certificates? —No. We do it here now in a somewhat similar way. We ask them to give up a week's holiday, and we give them an additional two weeks' work. 171. You are aware that at the Ontario Agricultural College and at the Hawkesbury College they do that?— Yes. They not only do that, but there is a tremendous amount of competition amongst the teachers to get into the Hawkesbury College. 172. Do you think that a good many of our teachers would be willing to take such a course if it is provided?—-Yes, I think a good number of them would. Some modified form of that could be adopted. 173. So if the Department and Boards would agree to the establishing and recognition of classes it would be possible, with very little more expense than now, to provide such instruction? —Yes. 174. There is nothing in the regulations against it now? —Nothing that I know of. 175. You are aware that some districts are paying boarding-allowances to teachers for these classes? —I was not aware of it. I knew they were paying travelling-allowance. 176. Supposing you were to have a promotion scheme for the whole Dominion, it would be absolutely essential that there should be a conference between the Inspectors of the several districts? —Yes.
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177. Supposing there was such a conference, and a scale of marks were drawn up, would it still be necessary to keep the scale that we have now, which depends on the marking for teachers' certificates by the Inspectors at present?—l do not think it would. 178. You think one would be enough?— Yes. 179. Do you think that the one that is carried out now is really a sufficient index of the standing of the teachers? —I do not. 180. Would you state on what grounds you think it is insufficient I—On1 —On account of the different standards men in different districts set up. If you take a small district: the Inspector is asked to classify his teachers and to assign efficiency marks, and he has no standard to guide him. He may not have any really strong efficient school in his district. Besides that, different people take different views of the qualifications of teachers. lam aware that the Department does not lower the classification of any teacher.
Auckland, oth June, 1912. Edward Ker Mulgan further examined. 181. The Chairman.] I understand that you wish to enlarge your answer to the question of yesterday in regard to the use of the grant for the training of teachers?— Our position is this: We are getting up classes for the instruction of uncertificated teachers. All the teachers who are receiving this instruction live at a distance. It would require at least £5 per head to provide instruction for those teachers between now and the end of the year. That means that we could provide with the grant for about forty-five teachers—to be on the safe side, say, forty. I have had applications with respect to these classes from 120 teachers. If we provided for all tfiose we should spend £600 out of the £900 on tuition fees alone. The grant would not bring the teachers to the centre, pay for their instruction, and provide for their board. Besides, is it quite fair to say that the Board has at its disposal £900 for the training of uncertificated teachers? The £900 is made up of a special grant of £225 and that the balance is £650. That £650 is used for giving instruction in cookery, woodwork, dressmaking, and other subjects of that kind. It seems to me that it would be unfair to deprive teachers of instruction in those subjects. So it is hardly fair to say that the Board has that amount at its disposal for the training of uncertificated teachers. . 182. Mr. Hogben.] Is not science included among the subjects of instruction for which you can use the £600?— Yes. 183. And having used this so long for training teachers in woodwork and cookery, would it not be fair for a year or two to use a rather larger proportion for training in science? —We might use some for that, but I do not think it would be right to use a great proportion, because there are so many young teachers to come in. 184. You must get them in the training college, which is separately provided for? —Yes. Notwithstanding that, there are a great number of teachers who require this training to-day. 185. But are the whole 120 ready to get their certificates except as regards science? Could you not devote it, say, to forty who are ready to take science to complete their certificates? —I do not think that is quite the question. We could do that, but it is a question whether we should deprive the other eighty pupils of the opportunity of receiving benefit from the grant. 186. But they will get it in their turn, of course. Is it not true that you have been training teachers in woodwork and cookery for a long time, and that many of the teachers you have been training are not actually teaching cookery and woodwork? —A great number of them are not. 187. Then, would it not be fair to divert a good portion of the grant for the teaching of the present uncertificated teachers, or some of them, in science which they will use in their teaching? —I think it would be fair to devote some of it to that purpose, but not an appreciable portion, because we have young teachers continually coming on who require this training. 188. Suppose you took £400 of it, and estimate the cost of training teachers at something like £10 each. Thus you would train forty teachers who have completed their certificates except as regards science? —We will have to give them training in other things. I think it would not be right to the service to take any large portion, because this district differs from others in that it is a very* large district, and we have a great number of teachers coming on who require to be trained, and there are other subjects in which we give training—dressmaking, drawing, brushwork, and so on —in which it is necessary that the young teacher should have training. 189. You said that one of the reasons why you do not get so many candidates for teacherships is the length of training they have to undergo before they can earn a fair income. _ How would you hold out inducements to them? Would you pay higher rates where they are trainingcollege students than they get now? —No. I think the prospective benefit is_ always a greater attraction than the immediate benefit. They consider that the prospect of earning a good income at the age of twenty-five or twenty-six is more satisfactory than a moderately good income while they are being trained. , 190. Then if you give them enough to keep them while they are being trained the inducement would be sufficient if the ultimate salary were higher?— Yes. It is the length of training taken in connection with what it leads to. 191. You think that the length of training would be rather a good thing for the teacher if he is to get a good salary afterwards?— Yes. 192. As long as you could maintain the teacher, so that any boy or girl with ability from any section of the community could come in, you would not cut down the secondary course to two years? —Certainly not.
E. K. MULGAN.]
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193. What do you think of the requirements for entering the training college, and also the leaving certificates, which mean three years of secondary schools? —The requirement under the new regulations is also a leaving certificate instead of matriculation. 194. What, do you think of that?— That would mean lowering the qualifications before entering, 195. At the present time they generally get only two years before becoming probationers? —Yes. 196. So that by giving three years you would lengthen by one year? —I would rather lessen it by one year. 197. Lessen it from the ideal, but increase it on the present practice? —Yes. 198. That is to say, you would have as an intermediate step to increase it from two to three years, instead of from three to four? —Yes. 199. You would not cut out the B students from entering the training college?—l would not prevent them from entering. 200. You would not prevent the best of the teachers in the country schools from entering the training college after qualifying for matriculation?—No; but I understand that now the training colleges and the authorities get as many A students as possible to enter. Here and in other colleges there is only a certain percentage of B students. I would not prevent them from attending, but I would like always to see the proportion of B students smaller than that of the A students. 201. The Chairman.] Is there any bar to the admission of B students at present?— The college will only accommodate a certain number of students--say, 100. Suppose there are only ninety A students coming forward, they are considered first. We may fill up the ten vacancies with B students. 202. Mr. Hogben.] The regulation reads that the number shall not be increased by the admission of students other than A students above 100? —Yes. 203. With regard to agricultural instruction in the training colleges, is it not a fact that under the regulation every training college must give agricultural instruction? —Yes. 204. And such teaching will not lie efficient unless yon have enough ground to work the course practically?—lt would not. 205. Has not the Department on two occasions in its reports recommended that there should be sufficient ground attached to each school?—I know of one occasion, but 1 do not remember the second. 206. Is not the difficulty that of finding the ground?—l think it is rather more than that. My interpretation of Regulation 25, clause 2, is that if the student is going to the University College, and taking up such subjects as zoology and geology, he may be exempt from agriculture. 207. Is there not a difficulty in finding a place on the time-table?— Yes; but my opinion is that agriculture should be a compulsory subject in the training college for every student, male or female. A course of geology and zoology- would not teach gardening. 208. Do you think that, in spite of the time-table, some other subject should give way?—l do. 209. You think that a University course in science would be an advantage?— Certainly, provided the student is able to profit by the instruction given at the University. 210. That is presuming that the University should not admit any one who was not able to profit by it?—l think it is provided for in the Training College Regulations. 211. The Chairman.] You would prefer that that reservation should be withdrawn—that the course should be compulsory while the student is at a training college in preference to the University course ?—I would not propose that it be withdrawn, but it should be modified in the direction of insisting on practical instruction being given to every student at the training college. 212. Mr. Hogben.] Then, you would say " except in the case of agriculture "? —Something of that kind. 213. Will you turn to the Regulations for the Inspection and Examination of Schools, clause 8, page 5. Does not that mean that in a small school the Inspector is practically examining the whole school in order to ascertain the character of the teacher?—Tn most cases it does. 214. That the number of pupils in each class in a small school is really small, and he would practically take the whole class?— Yes. 215. Does it not mean that his object is to find out the character of the teacher? Is not that more important than classification? —Yes. 216. Do you not think that a teacher who can really teach is also qualified to say which class his pupils ought to be in? —Yes; but is not that begging the question? Of course, a teacher who can really teach is able to do so. I think the question asked me applied to teachers who are not able to teach. 217. The same thing which taxes their power to classify taxes their power to teach?— Yes. 218. Mr. Pirani.] Will you turn to clause 5 in the same regulation, which relates to the periodical examination? Do you read that as meaning that every one of the periodical examinations must be a complete examination of all the pupils in all subjects?—l did read it so, and I think the teachers interpret it in that way, and have acted upon it in this district. 219. Do the records of the last of the periodical examinations for the year include the marks? —They do. 220. But does the regulation require that? —You have to satisfy the examining authorities. How are you to record the result of the examination without something of the kind? 221. You think you could not do it by an added statement?—At any rate, we do not do it, and it is not done in other districts. 222. Would you make any other alteration than reducing the number of periodical examinations in schools? —At present I would say No. I have not thought of making any other alterations.
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223. You would still let it be understood that the marks were required in each of the examinations ? —Yes. 224. You said you believe in the accrediting system : do I understand that you would apply that to the scholarships that would be given to those who were just leaving the primary schools with certificates, and who wish to go to the secondary schools?— Yes. Indeed, I look forward to a time when we could apply it to the scholarship-holders, but I would not do that now. 225. You would give it for the present on the Junior National Scholarship?— Yes. 226. Mr. Thomson.] Would it greatly help the uncertificated teachers if they were allowed to take their examinations in sections? —I think so. 227. Would you advise that they be permitted to do so? —Not more so than is provided in the old regulations. 228. Mr. Pirani.] Do you think it would be advisable that all Native schools should be under the Education Board as a matter of common practice—that there should be no exceptions to the primary schools? —I have not had much experience with Native schools, but from what I have seen, 1 think it would be a good thing if they were put under the Education Board. That opinion might be modified if I knew more about them. 229. Do you think it is fair that the students in training colleges should be debarred from doing relieving work in their vacations? —I would rather put it in a different way, and say that I do not think they should be required to do relieving work. I do not think they should do relieving work. 230. They are not working at the training colleges from November until March : do you not think that in that interval, as is the custom in America, they might be permitted to do relieving work if they want to supplement their income ?—On the whole, I think not. I think the student requires that time for preparation for the work for the coming year. The work of the year, as far as the student in a training college is concerned, should be strenuous work, and he requires the interval for preparation. 231. Do they use that time in preparation?— There are a great many ways of preparation. They might prepare by going down the harbour on excursions, or by chopping wood. T consider that a valuable preparation for a year of strenuous indoor work. 232. Do you think they should be permitted to take private work during that time for pay, although not permitted to take public work in their occupation ? For instance, we have pupils in the training colleges who do private teaching, and there is no objection to that. Do you think, then, that there should be any objection to their taking public work in schools?—l do not know that there is no objection to it. If it came to the knowledge of the Board, I presume that the Board would inquire as to how much private work is being taken, and if it were too much they would object to it being done. 233. Do the Board take any steps to inquire? —I do not think they do. 234. Do you not think it would be fair that the student who went to the training college— say, a B student— should be allowed to count his time at the training college towards the increment of his salary ? For instance, pupil-teachers in our district point out that if they do not go to the training college for a few 7 years their salary will go up by £10, whereas if they do go to the training college they go back to teaching at the same salary as before —at £90. Would it be a fair thing to say that those two years should count towards the increment of the salary in the same way as if they- were working at a school?— The salary- is attached to the position. When the pupil comes out of the training college he takes up his position with a minimum salary, and that seems to me fair. 235. Would it not be fairer to let him start afresh where he would have been if he had not gone to the training college?— Some of the students from the training college begin at £90, some at £120, and some at £150. 236. Would it not be fairer to give the student at the training college £100, which would be equal to the increment they would be earning ?—I would much rather see the system altered in another way, making the minimum salary £100. 237. Is it not fair to pay the student who has been through the training college more than he would have got if he had not attended the college?— That does seem an anomaly, but there are several other anomalies that we have to put up with. 238. If the training college is worth anything to the student it is worth something to the pupils? —The training is worth a great deal to the student, not immediately after he comes out of the college, but five or six or ten years later. It enables him to rise in the profession. In this district a pupil-teacher must matriculate before he or she is eligible to enter the training college. If he matriculates he goes to the training college at £60 a year. If he does not matriculate we may be obliged to employ him, and may find him a position at, say, £100 a year. This seems to be putting a premium on idleness. 239. Could not that anomaly be removed if you allowed the period of training to count to the efficient teacher the same as to the inefficient teacher who does not go to the college?—l do not think it should be done that way. 240. The Chairman.] Is the time ripe when we should say that a teacher is not efficient because he has not been to a training college?— No. 241. Mr. Pirani.] He is inefficient in that he cannot pass matriculation. That is our case in many instances. He is inefficient, but we may have to employ him to man our schools. He does not possess the ability to pass the examination. 242. Mr. Kirk.] Does it not resolve itself into the answer you have already given—that prospective advantage is better than immediate advantage? —That is so.
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243. The Chairman.] Supposing that a reform were instituted which gave the controlling body in education the general control of all phases of education —primary, secondary, and technical — would it not be some advantage to the teaching profession if all positions were open to primaryschool teachers if they were qualified, or qualified themselves by study?—Of course it would. 244.- Similarly, would it be any advantage from the Inspector's point of view? —1 think those "positions are open to all teachers now. They certainly should be open. 245. And all positions in the inspectorate of the Dominion be open to all public-school teachers? —I think so. 246. Would it be any advantage if the position of Inspector were made to apply to the whole Dominion, not merely to the divisions of it? —Yes, that would tend to the benefit of education, provided, of course, that the salaries attached to the position were not lowered. I understand that in certain districts the salaries attached to inspectorships are much lower than in other districts. There should be a levelling up according to position and responsibility and length of service. Robert Campbell examined on oath. (No. 3.) 1. The Chairman.] What are your educational qualifications and position?—l hold a CI certificate, and am first assistant in the Mount Albert School. 1 come forward as the mouthpiece of the Auckland District Educational Institute, of which I am president. 2. Will you tell us what the conclusions of the Institute are with regard to the questions raised in our order of reference? —I submit the recommendations of the Institute, and on all points where necessary I will distinguish between my individual opinions and those of the Institute. The resolutions of the Institute are : " Recommendations of the Auckland District Institute. The Institute recommends —(1.) That where there is a group of small country schools connected by passable roads, several of those schools should be closed, and the scholars conveyed daily to one central school. (2a.) That the Inspectors of the Dominion should be under the Central Department with respect to the interpretation of the regulations and of the syllabus; and that a Dominion scale of salaries, which should be such as to attract the best teachers in the profession, should be adopted for Inspectors. (2b.) A more speedy compliance with the Board's recommendations regarding the erection of new schools or the enlargement of old ones, especially in districts where the increase is rapid and likely to be permanent. (2c.) That the Regulations for the Examination of Teachers, issued by Order in Council on the 16th February, 1912, should be modified so as not to press so heavily on those candidates who wish to be examined in scientific subjects. According to those regulations, each candidate in Class C must produce a certificate showing that he has gone through a sufficient course of practical work occupying at least eighty hours in each subject. The Institute considers that many country teachers will, in the face of that regulation, find it impossible to obtain a C certificate. (3.) That all appointments of teachers be made by Education Boards on the advice of their Inspectors, who shall have previously classified all teachers on a graded list, similar to that at present in use in the Auckland District. (4.) The abandonment of the present system of payment by capitation for manual instruction. (5.) That the cost of education should be provided for by general taxation, and that no portion should be raised by local rates. (6.) That the instruction in agriculture should not be of a technical nature, but should be considered simply as one valuable means of developing the mind of the child by trained observation of the processes of nature. (7a.) That the course of instruction in arithmetic should be curtailed, more evenly distributed among the standards, and be of a more practical nature. (7b.) That the study of mathematical geography demands more abstract reasoning than can be expected from young children, and might very well be omitted from the syllabus. (8.) That all Junior National and Education Board Junior Scholarships should be abolished, and the money so saved should be spent in paying the lodging-expenses of those children who are highest on the list of the Junior Free Place Examination, and who require to live away from home in order to attend a secondary school." 3. Mr. Would you mind stating how you would have the regulations for the employment of teachers altered ?—One point that is mentioned here is that in the new regulations it appears that those country teachers who are at a considerable distance must produce a certificate showing that they have devoted the eighty hours to the study of practical work in a particular science. I do not see how that difficulty can be readily overcome. I grant that the. teacher who undertakes to teach a science must not work up his science from books only, that he ought to have a first-hand knowledge of the practical work if possible. The effect of these regulations appears to be that a considerable number of these teachers in the country districts will be debarred from obtaining the C certificate, which, of course, they are very anxious to obtain. 4. What do you think of the suggestion that the examination should be taken in annual periods instead of being taken at one time ?—I do not agree that it would be fair to the countryteacher who has to devote one year's hard work to his profession to take from his annual holiday four weeks, and of those four weeks to have five days per week devoted to the study of practical work in one science. 5. You think it is just as desirable that a teacher in full practice should have his recess as that the student at the training college should do so? —It is quite as necessary to him, if not more so. 6. Do you think that the obtaining of a certificate might fairly be made easier by allowing the teacher to take his certificate in three sections?—l do, very decidedly. I see no objection to its being taken in a number of sections. 7. In regard to the old E certificate that was abolished, do you not think it would be of advantage for those teachers who have a difficulty in reaching the D standard at first to have an opportunity of getting such a certificate as the old E to prevent deduction of salary because they have not the certificate? Would you advocate a partial reinstatement of the old E certificate?—l am afraid that that question has not been considered by the Institute.
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8. Coming to the appointment of teachers: does the Institute mean that the matter of the appointment of a teacher should not be brought before the School Committee at all? —The Institute is very definitely of opinion—with more unanimity of opinion on this point than any other point you might possibly question me on —that the appointment of teachers should remain solely in the hands of the Education Board. We have had considerable experience in this way. It is a point Which touches us very nearly; we have had many years' experience of appointments resting under the dual control of the Boards and the Committees, and we are of opinion that nothing could be more unsatisfactory as a system. The present Auckland Board about three years ago instituted the grading scheme, which has since been working to the entire satisfaction of the teachers. Of course, a number of teachers happen to be discontented with their places on the grading list, but as a scheme it has the almost unanimous approval of the teachers throughout the Auckland Province. Under that system the Board makes a selection from the names of the applicants. That selection is made nominally by the Board, but practically by the Inspectors sitting as a Board, and classifying once in two years all the teachers in the employment of the Board. When a position becomes vacant the inspectors make their recommendation of one name to the Board, and the Board then practically automatically sends on that name to the Committee. 9. Under the present system the Board gives the Committees an opportunity of objecting to a proposed appointment: would you abolish that? —No, 1 would not. 10. That is not quite clear in No. 3 resolution. You think it would be fair to retain to the Committee the right of objecting to an appointment then under the classified list?—l do. 11. With regard to No. 4, how would you pay for manual instruction in schools? Do you object to payment by capitation? —One plan suggested by the teachers was that payment might be made in very much the same way as payment is made for such things as lead pencils and slate pencils, by simply a grant to all schools. Manual instruction should be compulsory in all schools, and therefore the grant should be made in the way I have stated, because the grant would be required in all schools. 12. How is it possible to give manual instruction in all schools?—l cannot answer that question. 13. As a matter of fact, would it not be impossible in some schools? —Probably it would. 14. Would you recommend a system under which payment for manual instruction would be given in regard to those schools where instruction could be given?— The only system I could suggest just now is that the grant should be in proportion to either the roll-number or the average attendance of the particular school. 15. In regard to No. 6, could you explain how you would alter the instruction in agriculture from the present system defined under the syllabus?— That is simply a recommendation that instruction in agriculture should not be considered as intended to produce farmers, but as simply a part of the general instruction given to children, whatever their future in life may happen to be. 16. The Chairman.] In other Avoids, an elementary knowledge of agriculture?— Yes. Perhaps not quite so far as that even. Practically an elementary- training in applied science, which happened to be agriculture. 17. Mr. Pirani.] Then we come to 7a, in regard to arithmetic : How would you define the alterations you would recommend in that particular? What particular standards do you think are overloaded, and how would you distribute the alterations? —The teachers are unanimous on the point that Standards II and V are overloaded —Standard II in so far as they have to show a knowledge of the four money rules; and Standard V for various reasons, chiefly on account of the time occupied in the teaching of vulgar fractions. All the class teachers who have any experience of these different standards agree that in these two standards the work cannot be overtaken without devoting an undue amount of time to the subject. 18. With regard to No. 8, do the Institute mean that they would be in favour of abolishing all payments or awards to scholarship-holders except the lodging-allowance—that they would abolish even an allowance for the purchase of books or the payment of fees?—l do not think that we should go so far as to object to a money grant for the purchase of books. 19. And fees in secondary institutions where there were not free places?—ln respect to that, payment of the fees in such schools would be equivalent to granting a free place. We should have no objection to that. We simply mean that in the case of town children the granting of the free place or the free place and the cost of books ought to be sufficient considering the amount of money which would be available. 20. So that poor people in the towns would get no assistance at all except the free place according to your recommendation ?—That certainly was not intended. 21. Mr. Wells.] As to No. 2b, it is the opinion of the Institute that the compliance is not very speedy, that sometimes there is undue waiting? —That is so; a number of teachers have complained repeatedly that in the case of schools both in the towns and the rapidly growing country districts a request has been made to the Board for a new school or for the enlargement of a school. The Inspectors have reported that an addition is required, and the Board has sent a request to the Department, and the Department has made the grant required; but a very long time seems to elapse between the first overcrowding of the school and the providing of the new school or the addition. In some cases the delay has been so long as ten or twelve months. 22. With regard to the granting of additional assistance where a school is growing, does the Institute consider that the assistance is given quickly enough?— No. In all the cases I know of where there have been rapid increases there has been some complaint from teachers that the school is left for a considerable time understaffed. 23. Is it not a fact that the difficulty is largely increased by the fact that the increase may be made in one portion of the school, but if the total roll-number is divided by the number of teachers the increase is not so great, while in actual practice it is found to press very hardly on
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certain portions of the school? —That is so. The school may not be strictly overcrowded, but only overcrowded in the infants' department, while Standards IV, V, and VI may have plenty of room. 24. With regard to the examination of teachers, is there any difficulty in this district in getting teachers to go to the backblocks districts?— There is usually a great reluctance. Most people prefer to live in the towns or in the immediate vicinity of the towns. For distant places application's are not numerous. 25. Are not positions in backblocks schools largely filled by uncertificated teachers? —I presume so. 26. Will not an uncertificated teacher going into a backblocks school look to the obtaining of a certificate as a means of release from that position? —If he obtains a higher certificate he will certainly have a greater chance of removal. 27. Then, if it is made more difficult for him to obtain a certificate, will not the difficulty of getting teachers to take those positions be increased?-—lt will. 28. You can see no objection to allowing a teacher to take his D certificate in three sections? — None whatever. 29. Do you think that there would be a gain?—l do. 30. Can you tell us how the proposed regulations were received by the backblocks teachers in this district? —I can only say that the matter was discussed at a large meeting of teachers in which 1 presume backblocks teachers were represented, and the meeting was unanimous in its desire to get that particular regulation altered. 31. Mr. Kirk.] Will you define what "young children" means in recommendation 7b?— Children up to the age of fourteen. 32. At what age do children usually leave the primary schools?— Roughly, at about fourteen. 33. So that this recommendation means that mathematical geography should be entirelyeliminated from the syllabus?—l believe so. 34. Will you give us your idea of what "mathematical geography" is? —1 simply take the word "mathematical" —which may perhaps be loosely applied—from the syllabus. I refer to such matters as the approximately stable position of the earth's axis, in which the revolution of the earth round the sun is taught from observation of the stars. 35. Do you think that that should be eliminated? —I do. 36. Is not that a most fundamental principle of nature-study?— When the syllabus first appeared the teachers engaged in teaching this work in the Auckland District made a very systematic and earnest attempt to teach the different portions of Bin toto; omitting nothing, and made an earnest attempt to teach all these matters such as were suggested in the syllabus—that is, not dogmatically, but from the observation of the stars. My own experience agrees with the experience of all other teachers I have conversed with, and our opinion is that the matter required from the children is too difficult for them. 37. But bow can you teach nature-study well without teaching the effect the sun, moon, and stars have? —One of the difficulties that differentiates this subject from ordinary study is that practically the observation was to be made by the children when they were not in the presence of the teacher. It was to be done at night after sunset. We had no guarantee that the children were taking these observations except by questioning them on the following day as to what they observed. That I believe led to a certain amount of attempted deception. 38. Surely that could be readily ascertained? —It might be. 39. Was it not rather the fact that this mathematical geography should be taught from the primary standard right through the standards up to Standard VI, and that when the more difficult portions of mathematical geography came to be reached in Standard VI, it would be much more easily acquired by the children because of the teaching they had had in the primarystandards? —It would be easier, undoubtedly. 40. Mathematical geography deals alsa with the drawing of maps, 1 suppose?—l do not know if you would call that mathematical geography. We have no objection to the drawing of maps. 41. Would you not call the drawing of maps part of mathematical geography? —Certainly not, so far as this regulation is concerned. 42. Do you think the drawing of maps should be eliminated from the syllabus?—l do not. 43. Does the Institute really lay great stress upon this? I have read this regulation through, and it seems to me that if it were eliminated, and if teaching of the subject were eliminated, there would be a most awful absence of teaching of fundamental principles? —If you take the matter of the cause of the seasons and wish to teach that it may appear a simple matter well within the scope of the intelligence of children of thirteen and fourteen years of age, but we do not find it so. A class might be taught in this way : that " the cause of the seasons is the revolution of the earth round the sun taken in connection with the slope of the axis," but there are so many things in that statement which a child must previously understand, and understand very clearly, or the answer is of no use whatever. The revolution of the earth round the sun he can understand. As to the slope of the axis, he must previously have learned what the axis is. The slope of the axis may be taught dogmatically to him, or he may be taught by observation. The slope of the axis is an extremely difficult thing to teach by observation. It slopes a certain way to a certain number of degrees. This is supposed to be taught experimentally by observation. He can be taught what the orbit is, but to teach what the plane of the orbit is is rather more difficult. When you have all these difficulties, they amount to a considerable difficulty to a child of fourteen. 41. But you and I have gone through it; you were taught mathematical geography as a child, were you not?—l can quite admit —taking any ordinary class in Standard Vl—that we have a certain proportion of the scholars, but a minority, who can understand these things with ordinary intelligent teaching very well, but I am talking of the bulk of the class, and it is my experience, and the experience of the teachers I represent, that for the bulk of any ordinary Standard VI that particular lesson is too difficult.
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45. Is it not because they may not have had the necessary preparation for it in the lower standards —that there has not been a gradual working-up to the higher branch of mathematical geography? —That may be. 1 cannot answer that definitely. 46. The Chairman.] Is your experience of the Standard V pupil sufficient to enable you to say that when he comes to Standard VI he is sufficiently grounded in the requirements of English, geography, grammar, and arithmetic to enable him to do justice to it?—l think, on the whole, I may say Yes to that. 47. Mr. Poland.] Is it not a two years' course? —Nominally it may be taught in Standards V and VI. Practically it is taught in Standard VI. 48. Mr. Kirk.] Is it not necessary that a boy turned out of school at fourteen should have this knowledge?— No. I think it might very well be left to the secondary course. 49. Mr. Poland.] In what respect do you suggest that the arithmetic teaching should be curtailed?— For example, the teaching of compound interest in Standard VI might be omitted. The more difficult portions of compound proportion might be omitted. Many of the questions that are put might be simplified even if the subject itself were left. Decimal fractions might fairly be left, but the requirements in decimal fractions might be lessened in the matter of examination. 50. You suggest that the course of instruction in arithmetic should be of a more practical nature than at present. You think that the omission of these subjects would have that effect? — Yes. Take the one example I have given of compound interest. That does not enter into the experience of most men, and might well be omitted. I may say that we do not complain very urgently that the syllabus in regard to arithmetic is very far from having a bearing on practical work. On the contrary, a great deal of it has, but if it can be made more practical we should like to see it done, and certainly it ought to be lessened in the total amount. 51. Parents have complained to me very often that a child leaving school after passing the Sixth Standard, and obtaining a certificate of proficiency, may be asked by his father to work out some simple arithmetical problem, and lie knows nothing about it. Surely a child leaving school after passing the Sixth Standard should be able to do work of that nature I —One point on which all teachers that I know are agreed upon is that whatever is struck out, the one thing that is wanted and that we do not get is mechanical accuracy from the lowest standard to the highest. I should be very glad to see certain things struck out of the arithmetic syllabus in the upper standards, provided that we could in their place get mechanical accuracy. 52. The Chairman.] Would the striking-out of these things give time to ensure accuracy?—lt would. 53. Mr. Poland.] Would it not give more time for the rural course, botany and zoology? — Mechanical accuracy in arithmetic is extremely desirable, and it should not be sacrificed to anything. 54. About how many hours are provided for arithmetic in the upper classes?— Five hours a week, as a usual thing. In Standards 111, IV, and VI, five hours should be sufficient to teach them from this syllabus. In Standard V, if you want to cover the whole of the ground, you should give about seven hours to arithmetic to comply with the present syllabus. 55. Do you give Standards V and VI home work in arithmetic? —Not usually. 56. In any subjects?— Yes. The subjects usually given are such matters as preparation of reading and spelling for the next day, but very little written work. 57. The Chairman.] Ought there, under any r conditions, to be any.necessity for giving children home work in arithmetic? —I think not. 58. Why in arithmetic more than any other subject?— Because arithmetic ought to be done in school, whereas if you want a child to understand the reading-lesson you might fairly ask him to read it over the night before. 59. You do not think that the teaching of the principles of simple interest in school would be of advantage, and that the child should have a little practice in it at home? —I. would prefer that he should have his practice in school. At home he can get his elder brother to work it for him. At school he must do the work himself or leave it undone. 60. Mr. Thomson.] The Institute are in favour of the centraliaztion of small country schools. 1 suppose you are aware that amongst country residents the proposition is not favoured ?—I believe that there is some opposition. 61. I gather from the remit that you would make it mandatory?— Yes; I do not see how it can be of any value unless it were made mandatory. 62. Recognizing that there is opposition, do you not think we should w-ork along optional lines —that the School Committees of the districts affected should have power to vote on the question amongst themselves? Would not that be more in harmony with public opinion, and preferable to making it mandatory?—l am afraid I could not say Yes to that. I should prefer to make it mandatory. 63. Do you not think that centralization could be carried out in some of our cities or towns? Do you know any town in the Auckland District where there are a number of schools some of which could be abolished and the children sent to a central school without impairing the efficiency of the instruction imparted?—At present I am not able to think of any such case. 64. At any rate, if centralization is good for the country it is also good for the cities, if it would save expense and improve the instruction imparted ? —Quite so; with this difference : that in or near the cities you seldom have small schools which it would be advisable to close. 65. With respect to the question of putting all the Inspectors of the Dominion under a Central Department, can you say whether the Auckland Inspectors have signified their approval of that particular remit from the Conference? —No. They have had no opportunity of doing anything of the sort
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66. I notice the Institute is of opinion that the cost of education should be provided for by general taxation, and that no portion should be raised by local rating. What is the principal reason for that proposal? —The only reason we have is this : that if a portion of the cost of education is to be thrown on local rates it would often happen that in scattered country districts, where the standard of education of the inhabitants is not high, and where a large amount of money is needed for roads and other works, the local rating would be stinted by comparison with more densely peopled districts of the Dominion. 67. What is your experience as a teacher with regard to the free school-books? —The experience generally of teachers is that the books provided are certainly of use in the schools, and are generally and fully used in the schools, but there is the drawback that those books ca"nnot be taken home to be made use of at home. On the whole, the teachers would have preferred to see that money given for the purchase of school stationery, leaving the parents to buy the books that could and ought to be taken home. 68. Mr. Wells.] You mean the principal reader? That would not apply to the continuous readers that are supplied?— No. The continuous readers might very well be dealt with as they are now. 69. Do you consider that the syllabus generally- is overloaded? —That is a very large question. If the syllabus is to be taken as I believe it was intended to be taken, as to a very large extent optional, and selections are to be made from it, I think the teachers I represent very strongly approve of the syllabus as a very marked improvement on the old one. The only objection to it is that occasionally we have found ourselves required by an Inspector to teach a large section without being able to make selections from that section. 70. But does that hold in this district?— No. 71. Mr. Thomson.] I would like details of that scheme. You say you make selections. Will you give us an illustration? —The best example I can give is on pages 30, 31, and 32 of the syllabus. In the middle of page 32 you have Course Bin geography. There is no misunderstanding about that now, but there was at one time, and there may be still in some districts. Course B in geography on these pages contains a very long and very valuable list of subjects for the teaching of geography. If teachers are allowed to select what they please from that list, they have a very large amount of material from which to select. If they are required to teach all, they cannot do it. If they are required to teach an unduly large amount of it, the work becomes very difficult. 72. Are they required to teach too much of it?—ln this district we are not. We are required practically to teach what we think sufficient. 73. Does that remark apply to other portions of the syllabus as well as to geography?—T'o some, but not to all. 74. The Chairman.] Will you specify the portions to which it does apply?—lt would be more easy to specify the portions to which it does not. For example, portion of pages 20, 22, and 23. Here you have the requirements in arithmetic. On page 23 you have the Standard IV arithmetic. We are required to teach the whole of that paragraph. We do not object to it, but we have no choice; we may object or not, but the scholars are required to know that work. 75. Mr. Thomson.] Do you think a teacher should be allowed to exercise a choice in that subject ? —No, I do not. 76. Do you think that that could be improved?—lt might be improved chiefly in the way of curtailment. 77. By that, then, you admit that the syllabus is overloaded? —I do. 78. And if overloaded there it may be overloaded also in other parts?—l maintain that the arithmetic course as a whole is overloaded, not that the arithmetic course in Standard IV is overloaded. 79. Do you think it is a fact, as a result of the teaching in our primary schools, "that in a few short years after the admission of a bright, imaginative, and talkative child into the school he is converted into the irresponsive and circumscribed schoolboy we have to-day " ? —I think that that is a very wild statement. 80. In regard to the study- of mathematical geography, you believe it is beyond the comprehension of the child? —Beyond the comprehension of the average child. 81. Do you think it is possible to,.teach that subject by means of pictures?— No. 82. Not by a movable picture?— No. It would be distinctly better than a stationary picture, and the orrery itself would be distinctly better than a moving picture. 83. In giving evidence you said that it would be beyond the reasoning-powers of a child to understand the meaning of an axis? —Beyond the power of the bulk of the children attending the school. 84. That is the reason why you would eliminate that from the syllabus?- -Yes. 85. As a practical teacher, do you think that instruction could be comprehended by the children by means of a movable picture?—lt could be given and could be comprehended" even without the aid of a movable picture; but we maintain that the effort on the part of the children is very great and very continuous before they understand that. It has to be repeated again and again and explained by all sorts of devices, and that finally you can get the children to answer these questions at the end of _the year as if they understood them, and the answers in many of the cases are learned by heart simply because they have to be learned in some way. Now, we think that is not a satisfactory method of spending school time, and we should prefer to have a subject which demands so much abstract thinking eliminated from the syllabus altogether. 86. Do you think the movable picture could be made an adjunct to the school? To a very moderate extent. I have not very much faith in the movable picture, owing to the difficulties surrounding the production of these movable pictures. If a movable picture could be placed
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readily before a class where it was wanted, then it would be of great value, but if you have to darken the class-room for the movable pictures, then you want to show one picture after the other for not less than one hour. Now, a movable picture would be of great value if in the course of one given lesson the one movable picture you want is thrown on the screen, but if you have to show thirty or forty pictures the value is lost to a very great extent. -, - 87. Mr. Davidson.] You are first assistant in the Mount Albert School? —Yes. 88. What is the average attendance in the school? —About six hundred. 89. And the average attendance in the class of which you have charge?—lt is forty-one. 90. Have you noticed in the staffing of the schools that where the average attendance is 401 under the new scale there is a headmaster, with six assistants and four pupil-teachers? That same scale of staffs continues until you reach 481—that is to say, no additional assistance is given between 401 and 480?— I cannot answ-er that question as to the details. We have passed through that stage I know, and we left all the drawbacks of understaffing, and so on. 91. If I tell you it is a fact that no additional assistance is granted until an additional increase of eighty is made, do you think it is desirable that assistance should be given after an increase of fifty?—l do think it most desirable. 92. If there are only a small number of schools between 451. and 480, would it be desirable for the Department to allow the introduction of the new staffing at 151 ? —I presume it would be desirable, and there could be no serious objection to it on the ground of expense, as the number of schools affected is very small. 93. You were referring to the manual instruction, and you objected to the present capitation grants : would you be in favour of a fixed grant for the teaching of all manual subjects, apart say from woodwork, cookery, and agriculture, being made to the Education Boards?—l do not know. All I can say is that our objection is simply as a matter of principle. It simply relates to the excessive clerical labour demanded bj- the present system. 94. Then, if the Boards were granted a fixed sum for the purpose of teaching all these subjects of manual work with the exceptions I have just mentioned, that would do away entirely with this clerical work? —Not necessarily, because the Board may insist on the same system. 95. The Board would not be at all likely to insist, do you think? —Not likely, but it might. 96. You yourself stated that you would have certain branches of manual work taught in all schools : are you aware that in Southland 97 per cent, of the schools do take manual work ? —I was not aware of that. 97. And that in Wanganui 93 per cent, of the schools do take manual work? —I knew the percentage was high in Wanganui, but T did not know what it was. 98. Can you account for the fact that in certain districts only 20 per cent, of the schools take manual work, while in another district 97 per cent, of them do—l am quoting from E.-5, page 2? —I cannot account for that. 99. What I want to get at is this : You object, and I know many teachers throughout the Dominion object, to this clerical work required in furnishing returns?— That is so. 100. And you want to suggest some method by which we can get rid of this —what we consider unnecessary work? —That is so. 101. Even if the Board's capitation grant was increased to 12s. 6d., and they were allowed to spend that money as they chose, but it were insisted upon that certain branches of manual work should be taught in all schools, would that not be a more satisfactory method of dealing with manual work?—lt probably would, but, so far as the teachers are concerned, all they have really instructed me to put before this Commission is their objection to the amount of clerical labour demanded, feeling quite certain that it is within the powers of the Central Department to devise some other scheme if the present scheme is abandoned. 102. The Chairman.] By which the instruction could be given and the amount of clerical labour cast upon the teacher could be avoided at the same time? —That is so. 103. Mr. Davidson.] It would be interesting to the Commission if you were to give the nature of these returns required? —I cannot very well do that, because I have personally so little to do of it myself. lam speaking not for myself, but for the teachers. 104. Have you taught the subject of elementary physical measurements in your school?— No. 105. Do you know the capitation grant made for the teaching of that subject?—l do not remember it. 106. Do.you think that elementary physical measurements might be taught in connection with drawing, geography, and arithmetic? —As a matter of fact, in arithmetic and in drawing we already do a good deal in the way of elementary physical measurements, but I do not know how much further we would have to go to comply with the regulation. 107. The total payment by the Department for manual subjects was about £19,000 a year. If a somewhat simpler method than the capitation-grant method were adopted, do you think that amount might be considerably reduced without impairing the efficiency of the instruction? —It seems to me that whatever the amount is the cost of distribution must be considered, as the labour of the teachers in sending in these returns has to be paid for in some way. The labour of the clerks employed by the director of the Technical College here must be reckoned in some way. A good deal of that labour, it seems to us, could be avoided, and a good deal of that cost could be saved, but I do not know how much. 108. And necessarily also a saving of the teacher's time?— Yes. 109. This manual work in Auckland is in charge of the Director of the Technical College?— All applications for materials are sent to him. 110. Do you know whether that is so in any other district in New Zealand? —I do not know. 111. Is not the technical school here under the absolute control of the Education Board? —Yes.
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112. Speaking of free books, do the pupils in your class provide themselves with their own books? —Standard VI has just been reached by that system this year, and in my class the parents of the children provided the books in the ordinary way at the beginning of this year, and after these books had been provided by their parents a large consignment of free books of various kinds was delivered to us. Some of these, at all events, have simply been put into the cupboard, and stored away for next year's requirements. I cannot use all the books that the children have in their own possession and all the books provided by the Department, but next year the pupils will not be required to provide their own, but will be required to use those provided. 113. Is it not a fact that even in the classes below Standard VI, where books have been provided free for some years, that in the cupboards of these rooms will be found many books that are supplied for use, but are not used because the children buy their own books?—To my knowledge, I do not know of any such case. 114. It has been stated that as a result of the free-book system at least 85 per cent, of the children in the Dominion provided themselves with books prescribed for use, and that it simply means the booksellers and publishers are putting out nearly double the number of books?—l am not aware that the percentage is anything like that. 115. Take the arithmetic books, for instance : would you advise your pupils to purchase books of their own, so that they might study their work at home as well as in school?—I do not know that I should advise them to buy books if similar books have been provided by the Department, on the ground of putting them to needless expense, but I should very much prefer that the Department should not grant arithmetic-books, and that the children should provide their own. 116. As to the unnecessary multiplicity of small schools, how would you remedy the evil?— The only possible way that has occurred to us is that in districts where the scheme is practicable, some of these smaller schools, which are taught usually by a comparatively inefficient teacher, should be closed absolutely, and the children should be conveyed to some central school where there is, we will say, one efficient teacher and a duly qualified assistant, so that instead of having, say, three or four schools with an average attendance of twenty each, you would have one school with an average attendance of sixty or eighty, and where we may naturally expect the teaching would be much more efficient. The cost would be less, too. 117. Have you compared the percentage of sole-teacher schools in New Zealand with the percentage of such schools in the Australian States? —No, I do not know the comparison. 118. We find that 61 per cent, of the schools in New Zealand are sole-teacher schools: are you surprised at the number? —No, I am not surprised. 119. The advocates of the consolidation of the country schools claim that punctuality and regularity in attendance, the general health of the pupils, the moral tone of the pupils, and the efficiency of the teaching are improved : is that your opinion? —It is with respect to most of these matters you mention. Ido not see how the health can be very much affected in either way, nor perhaps the moral tone. 120. In country districts children frequently have to travel far. They come to school in wintry weather very often in wet clothes, and if instead of having to walk this distance they were conveyed in vans, as they are in many parts of America, they would reach the school dry and comfortable: would that not improve their health? —I do not think so, necessarily. I think you are overstating the case. I am thinking of two schools three miles apart. One school is to be closed, and the vans must start from somewhere near where that small school stands. The children who originally attended that school would still have a considerable distance of country to cover through the rain or mud to that van centre before they could get into it, and they would be carried to the central school wet, and not dry. 121. The Chairman?] Is that a fair assumption? Is not rather the plan that the children are called for at their home, no matter where it is, within reason? —In the case I am thinking of they would have to walk, because they could not be reached by 'bus. 122. Mr. Davidson.] I am just now thinking of an instance in America where those who have studied the question give absolute proof that that was so as to the moral tone improving. Is it not likely- that children going to and from school are more likely to be contaminated than if they were conveyed in fairly large numbers?—lt would be the case, but I should not be disposed to lay very much stress upon that. 123. Regarding the present syllabus, head teachers have the right to make out their own programmes of work for every class in the school and in every subject : is not the present syllabus more suggestive than mandatory?—So we teachers understand it. 124. Then, the objections that have been raised in many, parts of the Dominion are mainly on account of the interpretation by Inspectors of that syllabus?— That is so. 125. As to the new regulations for the examination and classification of teachers : have you read the requirements for the teachers' D certificate in elementary hygiene and first aid?—l do not think I have read all that in detail, but I know pretty well the work. I have gone through it. 126. It has been stated that there are no fewer than two hundred topics in that one subject?— I have heard that stated. 127. Do you consider the requirements in that particular subject excessive?— That, of course, must be taken in connection with the question of the importance of that one subject compared with the other subjects in which the candidate has to sit. Considered as a subject by itself, the requirements there may not be excessive, but the possible time required from the student might be excessive. 128. Have the difficulties been greatly increased by' making that subject compulsory, and by also making the subject of elementary mathematics for men compulsory, as compared with the old requirements?—l have no doubt that it lias had that effect. With respect to the elementary hygiene, first aid, and so on, if this is simply an addition to the previous requirements it undoubtedly- has added very considerably to the work. I know roughly the amount of work required there, and it is very considerable.
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129. Do you think it would be wise to allow any teacher sitting for the D certificate to receive credit for any one or more subjects in which he passes? —I do. 130. The Chairman.] I was going to call your attention to section 5 of your remit—the cost of education should be provided by general taxation,- and no portion raised by local rates —can you indicate to-the Commission what the mind of your Institute is upon the question as to what the cost of education is intended to cover ?—We considered simply the whole cost of elementary education; we did not consider anything beyond primary education. 131. You are not taking into account the cost of technical education at all? —No, not in this. 132. Mr. Wells.] Do you know of any complaint in this district in regard to the clerical work required of teachers outside that required for the manual-work returns? —I do not know of anyrecent cases. 133. There is no grumbling about the amount of clerical work?— Not now. 134. Or in connection with the drilling? —Some years ago we had many complaints to make, but not recently. 135. Mr. Davidson.] You stated that your objection to local taxation for educational purposes was mainly on account of the sparsely populated districts being unable to provide the same facilities for education as the more densely populated parts can do. If the Government granted subsidies upon a sliding scale upon the amount raised by local taxation, would that not make provision for the education in these districts?— The difficulty might possibly- be got over in that way. Norman Roderick McKenzie examined on oath. (No. 4.) 1. The Chairman.] What are your educational qualifications?—Bl. 2. What are j-ou ?—Headmaster of the Mount Eden School, and President of the Headmasters' Association. I have seen the statement handed in by Mr. Campbell, and I wish to amplify that on behalf of the Headmasters' Association. In regard to some points, I have not consulted my own Association, and in this I will simply- offer my own personal opinion. 3. Do you agree with the evidence of Mr. Campbell, or do ybu disagree with it?—My association agrees in general with this document. 4. You heard Mr. Campbell give his evidence : are there any points in it to which you take exception I —Nothing vital. 5. There is nothing of importance in the matters he touched on with which you differ from him?— Nothing of any importance. 6. We would like to hear your statement as the mouthpiece of the Headmasters' Association? —The first point has already been touched on. We strongly support the abolition of small Boards, and I shall deal with that more fully under clause 5. As to clause 2 of the order of reference, my association is strongly in favour of breaking up the class D into two or three sections. The reason is this :we get many pupil-teachers entering the service through the Boards' candidates' examination, which is very little in advance of Standard VI. They have to work from four to five hours, and I think, taking our district as a whole, even the first-year pupilteachers have to work five hours —not in every school, but in many schools. The result is that they find it extremely difficult to deal with so many subjects at the time, and to deal with them satisfactorily. We consider there are far too many subjects in the first section. There are some fourteen subjects altogether, and the candidate has to attempt something like twelve, though not necessarily to pass them all. Several of these twelve subjects he may fail in, but we consider it is better to take fewer. With regard to the class B examination, we think that every candidate should pass in the subject of edusation up to the B.A. standard. Education is such a veryimportant subject that we think it should be made a compulsory subject up to the B.A. standard. It is only compulsory now up to the class C standard. In the class C paper we consider that the B.A. subjects which they have to take should include education. To get B you must take at least three subjects to get to the B.A. standard. As to clause 3 of the order of reference, we strongly support the Dominion system of promotion of teachers, based on the principles advocated by the New Zealand Educational Institute. These are the clauses in the report of the Institute : " 2. That the following principles are essential to any sound scheme of promotion : (a.) Efficiency of the service must be the first consideration in the appointment of any teacher, (b.) In the grading of teachers for promotion, efficiency of the teacher must be the first consideration, and literary or other qualifications, as well as length of service, must be subordinated to this, (c.) The efficiency of the teacher can be gauged only by experts, (d.) Provision must be made for appointment on merit, (c.) Provision must be made for the grading of classes in a few well-defined grades. (/.) Other things being considered equal, seniority of teacher should then be the determining factor, (g.) Each teacher's prospect of promotion should be shown as definitely as possible on a promotion list, which should be revised at periods not greater than one year. (A.) The necessity for a guarantee against reduction of salary (except on proof of loss of efficiency)." That has been provided for by recent regulations. We feel, also, that there should be some right of appeal. That is the weak spot in the Auckland scheme. In the Dominion system, of course, the pull would be to the Minister. I might explain that in Victoria a similar system is in force. The appeal there is to the Public Service Commissioner, and I notice in the Gazette that -appeals are frequently successful. In every year there are several successful appeals. 7. Mr. Poland.] Are the appeals frequent?— Yes; f think the appeals are more frequent than the successes. As to clause 4of the order of reference, that has been partly dealt with by Mr. Campbell, but we would suggest a Dominion scale of salaries for manual-training teachers and teachers in technical schools. We are of opinion that manual training should be a part of the ordinary curriculum in every- school. As to clause 5 of the order of reference, I have mentioned the abolition of small Boards is advocated, We think about four Boards could manage
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the educational affairs of the Dominion. The districts might well be the present University districts. We think that the election should be on a popular basis, instead of by School Committees. We think that these Boards might control primary, secondary, and technical education within their district, and that the qualified teachers may be moved from one kind of school to another if considered necessary— that is, from the primary to the secondary schools, or from the primary to the technical, and vice versa. The advantage of having the secondary schools as well as the primary under the control of one Board would"be that it would give some unity to the scheme of education. At present it is more or less disjointed. It would also give the teachers a broader outlook. If a man passed through a primary school to a secondary, or from a secondary to a primary school, he would naturally have a wider outlook on educational problems. The abolition of the small districts, with their office staffs, and so on, would save money, and the formation of larger districts would give teachers some equality of opportunity for promotion— an equality that does not exist at the present time. We did not consider clause 6of the order of reference in regard to overlapping and duplication. As to clause 7 of the order of reference, we would suggest a liberal subsidy to local voluntary contributions towards primary education such as now is given in the case of technical schools and district high schools. I might quote a case in point. In my district we collected £110 for the improvement of the schoolgrounds recently, and the Education Board were good enough to give us a grant of £1 for £1 up to £100, but they thought that they were treating us in a rather excessively liberal way. I think that if the Department encouraged local effort of that kind, it would result in a saving to the Department in the long-run, and it would also arouse local interest in the welfare of the school. As to clause 9 in regard to the syllabus, I have a good deal to say. First of all, we think that no subject has any right to a place in the syllabus unless it is of value both educationally and practically. I should like to make clear that by " practical " I do not mean " technical." We do not want to produce tradesmen in the primary school. By practical I mean the subject should have an intimate relation to the life of the child, and his future career, as well. I should like to add at this point to what Mr. Campbell said : that we in Auckland are strong believers in this syllabus. The faults with which it has been blamed are nearly always the faults of interpretation, but like every other human product it is capable of improvement. There are a few suggestions here. I quote now from the report of the New Zealand Educational Institute, 1910. This is a report of a committee of the Institute of which I happen to be the convener, dealing with matters connected with this syllabus. Under the heading of " English " there is a suggestion that in the subject of writing encouragement should be given to the acquirement of facility in conjunction with legibility. There is a feeling that much school writing at the present time is more drawing or engraving than writing. It is done so painfully slowly. We are not anxious to see poorer writing, but we wish quicker writing, and we think there should not be much difference between a child's writing test and the writing he does in his composition exercise, for instance. It would be better to have less perfect writing fixed and a more perfect specimen of penmanship in his ordinary written work. 8. Can you supply a few concrete illustrations of the work done under the syllabus in your school to show what is actually done?— Yes; as a matter of fact, I aim at this in my own school. In Standard VI, which I have just been examining lately, I can think of one child who wrote seven pages of paper of foolscap size in an hour and a quarter in a composition exercise, and it was all good, clear writing—not, of course, as good as the writing test, but as near to it as you could expect. That, of coarse, was the best in the class. I do not say the whole class could do that, or anything like it. We aim at getting speed as well as beauty of form. There has been a good deal of talk about the question of technical terms in connection with grammar. This is the finding of the committee I speak of : " That in examination tests there is no objection to the employment of the technical grammatical terms used in the present syllabus, provided that formal definitions of these be not required." Under the old system the examination in grammar consisted very largely in requiring definitions to be learned in the period, and that was often done without any real understanding of what was being done. We feel that when a child has an idea, for instance, of an adjective clause, it is a proper thing that the child should have a word to express that idea, but we do not think the child should be required to give a clear logical scientific definition of every word he uses. Now, the work in arithmetic we are all agreed requires readjustment. We have a fairly long report on this particular subject. It is very much on the lines of Mr. Hogben's own suggestions : " (a.) That the syllabus in arithmetic should be reduced, and also recast, so that the burden of work may be more equally distributed among the standards. In this connection attention is directed to the great amount of arithmetic demanded by the New Zealand syllabus as compared with the requirements of the English Board of Education, and is of opinion that education in the Dominion would gain considerably if a syllabus approximating to scheme B (England) were adopted. (5.) That the heavy arithmetic syllabus frequently interferes with the general progress of the pupils, as the work in other subjects is often retarded by the undue amount of attention given to arithmetic, (c.) That since it is not advisable to attempt to teach the whole subject in primary schools, technical schools, or individual effort outside of school, (d.) That since education should aim at adjusting individuals to their environment, arithmetical exercises should, be drawn from the actual surroundings of the children, should be in the form used in daily life, should be taught practically, and should be suited to the age of the pupils, (c.) That the foundation of success in this subject is unremitting practice in mechanical operations connected with commercial, and everyday life, especially mental work. (/.) That accuracy, speed, and neatness in mechanical work must be aimed at in all classes. \g.) That up to and including Standard VI, the greater part —say, 60 per cent. —of the examination should be mechancial, and should include concrete examples. Tables should be carefully and practically taught, (h.) That in Standards T and IT only one principle should be introduced
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into a problem. In Standards 111 and IV not more than two principles should be introduced. (i.) That the necessary apparatus to teach this subject—sets of accurate weights, measures, &c.— should be supplied by the Department to each school, so that the subject may be taught practically." In Geography this is the finding : " (a.) That, although the A and B courses are equally compulsory in_the present arrangement of geography, whereby the B course may be treated in eighty hours, "while the extent of the A course demands a very much greater allotment of time, there is a comparative neglect of political geography, and an undue emphasis of the mathematical and physical, and the subject generally, especially in the upper standards, is receiving too large a share of the school time, (b .) The Institute therefore suggests —(1) That there be only one course in geography, comprising all necessary topics; (2) that the teacher is required to draw up his scheme of work from these topics; (3) that sixtjr hours per year in the classes Standard 111 to Standard VI be suggested as sufficient time for this subject." That is, an hour and a half per week throughout these standards. The Institute also suggests that geography should be removed from the list of compulsory subjects from the Standard VI proficiency examination so far as the individual pass is concerned. The object of this is, of course, to give the teacher freedom of choice in the examination as set in Wellington or in the Board's office on the subject. Of course, the teacher's right of choice is interfered with. As to the subject of history, we think this should receive more attention. This is the suggestion : " That the subjects in history should be systematically grouped and arranged, and a concentric series of historical readers should be used " —of course, in addition to proper oral lessons on the subject, We do not advocate teaching history from books only. We think the use of books should follow on the giving of oral lessons by the teacher. As to the subject of drawing, girls taking a class in manual training need not be taught geometrical drawing, but they have to take it for scholarship examinations, and we recommend that geometrical drawing should not be required either to be taught to them, nor should they be examined in it. In this district our girls are handicapped fifty marks because they are not, as a rule, taught geometrical drawing in the schools on account of their going to the manual-training school. There is a suggestion about sewing. I am not an expert on the subject, and I leave that to the ladies to deal with. Finally, we suggest that the Department periodically issue a pamphlet similar to the suggestions for teachers issued by the English Board of Education on the general scope of the syllabus. In connection with that 1 might explain that we look upon the syllabus not as a fixed quantity at all, but as a sort of organism which must steadily grow, and that when the Department tnmlvs that additions or alterations or omissions should bo made they should issue this pamphlet, explaining the position, and also giving the teachers the latest ideas on the teaching of the various subjects. Now, physical training is a subject which lias not at all received the attention it deserves in many of our schools in the past. I think this is a most essential subject, and that very great emphasis should be laid upon it. In this connection 1 should like to point out that the lessons in drill given to cadets seem to be unduly long. The boys have to drill for an hour at a time, and this is a violation of the principles of physical training. The modern idea is to have boys for a few minutes every day. I should compare the present system of giving an hour a week and having none in between to very like giving a boy a dinner once a week and letting him starve the rest of the time. The teaching of hygiene and the laws of health I think might be emphasized somewhat more, and in connection with that a resolution was passed at the annual meeting of the Institute in favour of teaching sexual physiology in the schools, both to boys and girls, but not by the teachers, llie vote was absolutely unanimous on that point. 9. The Chairman.] Up to what standard?— Not until they were approaching the age of puberty. It would not do to teach these things too early, and of course the teaching would need to be done by experts who would handle the subject in a very tactful way. There was a general feeling that a very great deal of sexual immorality was the result of ignorance rather than of vice in the early stages, and that this could be corrected by proper instruction at the right time. In connection with physical training, the question of better play-grounds arises. The present condition of many of our large schools is an absolute scandal in this respect. There is one large school in Auckland not a mile from where we are now sitting where the children actually play in the streets; that is the play-ground for a great number of them. 10. The only play-ground?— They have a sort of play-ground about as big as an ordinary back yard, and so they have to play in the streets, and I think they drill there, too, although I would not be sure of that. The question of furniture is also inseparably connected with physical training. It is a well-recognized fact that if a child sits in a desk which is too low or too high he is subject to physical troubles. Adjustable desks are now obtainable. They are expensive, of course; that is a matter of pounds shillings and pence. Still, it is a vital question. If schools were provided with adjustable desks of the best pattern it would have a very great effect on the children. There are a couple of points I have not consulted my association about, so I had betterleave them for the present. They are the question of domestic science and the extension of woodwork in our schools. I would like to give a personal statement on that subject. Some of the time saved in the reduction of work in arithmetic could well be used in reading, and especially reading of continuous matter —that is, standard authors suited to the age of the child. Teaching a certain quantity of knowledge should be discouraged in every way. This is largely a matter for the Inspectors, but there is often a tendency to try and get through a certain amount of work and get through it whether it is well taught or ill taught—whether properly assimilated or not. That should be discouraged in every possible way. That is connected with the question of examinations. It is a very difficult thing to get assistant teachers to believe that their future does not depend on examination-passes. If they could be persuaded that their promotion does not depend upon cramming in a certain quantity of knowledge in a given time this thing would go; but we cannot get rid of it until we get. rid of very much of our examination work. In connection with the classification of children, it is advisable not merely to have standard classes, but to have these
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classes arranged in groups within the standard —say, three or four groups, and each group containing children of about equal capacity. This, of course, can only be worked in the larger schools -where there is a liberal staff. Now, I wish to emphasize once again, the danger of confusing manual training and technical education. The complaints we hear made against the primary school more often than not arise from the fact that the public expect us to turn out tradesmen, clerks, and suchlike. I find it also in connection with the cookery classes. A mother finds that her daughter has been attending a cookery class for a year or two, and still the mother can make a cake better than her daughter, or wash a Moor better, or something else about the home, and then she at once condemns the system of instruction; so in introducing these subjects in the syllabus care must be taken to make it perfectly clear that no technical education is to intrude itself into the primary school. The Institute passed a resolution last January asking the Department to supply lanternslides to schools having lanterns. It was suggested that these slides could be issued instead of the pictures now being issued by the Department—that is, to save expense. We have no objection to receiving pictures, but if we cannot have both slides and pictures we find the lantern-slides more useful where a lantern is procurable. I wish to submit to the Commission a letter which was sent by the Headmasters' Association to the Education Board through the Institute, and approved by each of those bodies and forwarded to the Department. It is as follows : " Auckland Headmasters' Association, Kohimarama, 2nd December, 1911. Sir, —I am directed to submit for the consideration of your Board the following statement re the scale of staffs for schools. During the past year my association has specially considered the various points of difficulty as they have been experienced by its members in the schools of the Auckland Province. As an) , weakness in staffing must be detrimental to the welfare of some of the pupils concerned, your Board is directly interested in this important matter, and is therefore urged to use its influence with the Minister of Education to obtain the necessary amendments. Notwithstanding the improvements in staffing which have been introduced in recent years, it is still possible under the present regulations for some schools to be so understaffed that the pupils are debarred from a proper education, and teachers are subjected to overstrain. The Minister's declared intention of replacing pupil-teachers by assistants encourages us to hope that the present difficulties will be partly removed in this way. It is very desirable that this plan should be given effect to at the earliest opportunity. The present regulations press unduly heavily on growing schools In our district, where very many schools are steadily increasing their numbers, much hardship follows from the delay in increasing the staffing, this delay sometimes extending for more than a year. The trouble would be largely removed by the amendment of Table B under the Regulations for Stan's and Salaries in such a way that columns 3 and 4 should be deleted, and the numbers now given in column 2 should be retained under the heading ' Average Attendance Rises for One Quarter.' We regard the penalty of the increased numbers (36 to 40, 80 to 85, &c.) as quite sufficient. If such increase be maintained for one quarter, and the Inspector certifies to the probability of the increase being permanent, then it is absolutely desirable that the staff should be increased without delay. In comparing the treatment of schools of various grades my association notes the comparatively satisfactory treatment of the larger schools (Grade 10a upwards). Where structural difficulties in the buildings of these schools do not prevent suitable classification the children here are comparatively well provided for. In connection with the architectural difficulty, which so often is a bar to suitable division of classes, we suggest for the future a more extended use of ' McCabe hangers ' instead of fixed partitions. Except as noted above in the case of growing schools, the staffing of small schools up to Grade 5 is fairly satisfactory, and the Minister's promise to replace the pupil-teacher of Grade o by an assistant will lead to a decided strengthening of staffs. In schools of intermediate grades (6, 7, 8, and 9) the staffing is much less satisfactory. Where, as frequently occurs in our province, these happen to be growing schools, the difficulties of organization are very real, and children and teachers suffer in consequence. My association considers that the substitution of assistants for some of the pupil-teachers in these grades is urgent. In Grades 9a and 9b a strange anomaly occurs. While Grade 9a receives the same staff as Be, Oβ gains both an assistant and a pupiiteacher. A better adjustment here seems easily possible. A somewhat similar adjustment between 9c and 10a also seems desirable. It should be noted that when epidemics occur the staffing is somewhat seriously affected, and as the reduction of staff takes effect not during the epidemic, but subsequently, when the attendance is again normal, the staffing is then insufficient for the work. Although regulations have been gazetted to minimize this difficulty, they do not sufficiently meet the case of the growing school. The substitution of a quarter of the preceding year for the quarter affected by the epidemic, while satisfactory in the case of a school with an approximately stable roll-number, is unsatisfactory in the fast-growing school. We suggest that clauses (a) and (b) of the regulations be amended so that the quarter affected may be entirely omitted from the calculation of the yearly average— i.e., the averages of the three quarters unaffected by epidemic should be totalled, and this sum divided by three. In recommending your Board to urge the Minister to take these matters into serious consideration, my association cannot emphasize too strongly the special difficulty under the present regulations in the case of all growing schools. As these constitute a very considerable number in our district, the Auckland District is specially interested in an amendment to this regulation. It seems to be quite a common thing for a school to be working in a grade above that for which it is staffed.—l have, &c, D. Chadwick Brown, Hon. Sec. The Secretary, Education Board, Auckland." The following is a report on memorandum from the Headmasters' Association re staffing of public schools : " Several matters of the first importance are referred to in this report, the following being a brief summary of those most in deed of attention : (1.) Additions to or withdrawals from staff—The delay in increasing the staff in certain cases militates greatly against efficient work, and it would be a step in the right direction to hasten both the additions to and the withdrawals from the staff on the recommendation of an Inspector. If, in the Inspector's opinion, the increase in attendance is such as permanently to bring a school into a higher grade, or the decrease in attendance such as permanently to lower the o-vade i n
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the school is placed, the increase to or withdrawal from the staff should at once be made. As has been pointed out, this is a matter which specially concerns this district, where there are so many growing schools. (2.) Substitution of Assistants for Pupil-teachers—The substitution of assistants for pupil-teachers in schools above Grade 6a is most desirable, implying, as it does, the abolition of all pupil-teachers. But it must be remembered that in this district, owing to phenomenal -expansion, the difficulty of obtaining suitable assistants is becoming greater each year; so that it is questionable whether it would be in the interests of the service to advocate any further reduction of pupil-teachers just at present. To strengthen the staffs of the higher-grade schools by the withdrawal of pupil-teachers and the appointment of assistants would certainly tend to accentuate the difficulty of obtaining suitable applicants for our sole-charge schools, and would probably result in the appointment to low-grade schools (and these -are in the majority in this district) of relatively inferior teachers. (3.) Anomalies in Staffing—The anomalies to which attention is drawn in the staffing in Grades 9a and 9b, as also in Grades 9c and 10a, seem to call for some amendment. (4.) The Effect of Epidemics on Staffing—The suggestions made under this head to meet the case of the growing school appear to have much to recommend them. I would recommend that copies of the memorandum from the Headmasters' Association, and of this report, be forwarded to the Education Department, Wellington, where it is to be hoped that steps may be taken to bring about such modification of regulation as will lead to improved staffing conditions. —E. K. Muloan, Chief Inspector." I desire now to make some observations under clause 11, as to examinations. I would point out that some pupils in Standard VI are obliged to have three examinations one after the other at the end of the year —the periodical examination at the end of the year, the proficiency examination by the Inspector, and frequently- the Free Place and Scholarship Examination by the Department. We consider that one of the examinations should be sufficient. I do not suggest which one, but that one examination would be ample for all requirements. With regard to the periodical examinations, we suggest that there should be two a year instead of three. We also suggest that it is quite unnecessary- and undesirable, and a waste of time, to assign numerical marks to the work of every child in every subject. The Inspector's visit with notice is also open to objection. I think it should be abolished, because it leads to cramming, as under the old standard examination. What we ask for is less examination and more inspection. In this connection the question of records and returns is of great importance. The headmaster of a large school has an unduly great proportion of his time taken up in keeping records and holding examinations, and seeing that returns are made —time which Would be far better spent in supervising the educational work of the school. There is a feeling that the time has arrived when kindergartens might very well be started in the more crowded centres, and that provision for the education of abnormal children —whether mentally or physically abnormal —should be made in the larger centres. With regard to superannuation, I would ask the Commissioners to regard particularly its bearing an inducing an old and infirm teacher, a man past his prime, to accept a position or to leave the service. When the Act came into operation many teachers did not come under its provisions. The result is that there is a temptation for those teachers to continue at work when they are really unfit for duty. I would suggest an amendment of the Act to allow them to come in. Another point is that we should like the superannuation to be calculated on the three years in which the man has received the highest salary- rather than his last three years in the service. The reason is this : A person may have charge of a Grade 10 school, and may, by reason of infirmity, be unable to carry on his duties as he should. He would not care to give up that position because of the financial loss in the matter of superannuation. Not only that, but the Board would have some compassion upon him, and would probably not remove him. So that the service would benefit by inducing him to take some lighter employment in his later years without reducing his superannuation accordingly. 11. Mr. Davidson,.] What is the average attendance at your school?— The average for last quarter was 926. 12. What, in your opinion, is the most desirable size of school?—My personal opinion is that a. school of that size is the most easily conducted under the present scale of staffing. You can group your scholars within the standard. For instance, my Standard lis a class of 150 or 160, and 'Standard II numbers between 130 and 1.40. In each of those classes I have three separate groups, and there are three teachers—two assistants and a junior—attached to each class. In my opinion, those two are the most satisfactory classes 1 have had to do with in my whole experience. At the same time, I must admit that the bulk of the teachers favour a smaller school, and then there would be more headmasterships available. 13. Does not the time that must be taken up by the headmaster of such a school in examining the children and tabulating the numerical marks encroach very considerably upon the time he, as headmaster, could give to the supervision and instruction of the weaker teachers?—lt does. I get over it by delegating the clerical work to assistants. 14. If your school were reduced in average attendance, would your salary be affected? —Not in the least. 15. What, then, do you think was the object of the Department in limiting the salary, or providing the maximum salary for a school of 600? —I presume it thinks a school of 600 is large enough for any one to manage. I may say that for the month of February our average attendance was 942. 16. Do you think it would be an advantage to teachers, particularly to inexperienced teachers, if the Department in New Zealand were to issue something on the lines of the " Aids to the Course of Study," issued monthly in Victoria? Those aids are compiled by a committee ol' experienced and successful teachers? —I think that would be a great help to inexperienced teachers, but it would be very undesirable to have such a scheme made compulsory. An experienced teacher will work much better under his own scheme than under any scheme prepared by any one else. I get the "Aids-" every month, and they are very helpful to an inexperienced teacher.
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17. You will notice that very great emphasis has been placed upon phonics and voiceproduction : what is your opinion upon that? —I quite agree with it. As a matter of fact, in "~my school we teach reading by means of phonics. It is a system that should be insisted upon in every school. 18. Do you not find that there are great differences between the children in any class from Standard I-upwards in regard to reading, some reading with the greatest ease from a book when it is first placed in their hands? Do you not think it desirable that at least one period a week, and probably two, should be devoted to silent reading by those children who are very proficient? — I think more than once or twice a week. My instructions to my teachers are that those pupils whom we know to be capable of carrying out that work satisfactorily are to be given every possible opportunity of reading silently. That sets the teacher free to devote his attention to those who require help. 1 have practised that for years, and lam well satisfied with the result. 19. What arrangements have you made in the direction of supplying school libraries?—We have a library of 1,700 books, in seven divisions, one for the infant department and one for each standard class, specially selected to meet the requirements of the class, as far as we could get it. Each teacher is in charge of the books belonging to his own room. 20. Mr. Poland.] Do you consider that the four Boards of Education that you consider would be sufficient for New Zealand should be elected on the electoral franchise? —Yes. 21. You do not quite agree with the recommendation of the Teachers' Institute that all payments for the cost of education should be made out of the general taxation. You say there should be a liberal subsidy upon local contributions. I suppose you mean contributions for the improvement of schoolgrounds?—l think all contributions should be voluntary. I am at one with the Institute on that point. The Institute objects to compulsory local taxation for educational purposes. 22. The subsidy is merely to encourage voluntary contributions?—As a matter of fact, under the Manual and Technical Schools Act Borough Councils are empowered to levy taxes for technical education. At Whangarei, where I had charge of the technical school, both the Borough Council and the County Council contributed towards the cost of the technical classes. They were allowed by law, though it was not compulsory. 23. The Chairman.] Are these the grants that you consider should be supplemented by the State? —I am speaking now specially of voluntary contributions, such as we had at Mount Eden lately. 24. W T hat was it called? —Improvement of the schoolgrounds. We have now £210 available for it, and we have a landscape gardener directing the work. In the course of a few years we hope to have the place laid out almost as a park as regards the portion that can be spared for playground purposes. 25. Mr. Poland.] You spoke of the scandalous conditions obtaining at some of the Auckland city schools with regard to play-grounds : how would you overcome a difficulty such as that at Newton East? —I am afraid the only plan is to dip pretty deeply into the public purse, and buy up some of the surrounding shanties, and pull them down. In Auckland we have no municipal trams. 26. We have left the play-ground question too late? —Yes. It is a matter of very- great expense, but the thing is worth while. The production of citizens is more important than any other kind of production, and I think the public ought to face it rather than allow children to grow up in such insanitary- surroundings. 27. You cannot suggest any way of purchasing land? —If it were near the railway, or we had municipal trams, the children might be moved out, but that is not practicable in Auckland. 28. Are the free school-books a success, in your opinion?— They are a qualified success. When the grant was first given it was not wanted; at least, that is my experience. 29. The Chairman.] Do you mean that it was not asked for?—lt was neither asked for nor really wanted by the parents in my district, but since so many continuous readers have been supplied, that portion of it is a success. In my own school nearly every child has bought a principal reader in addition to the one supplied by the Department, so that the free book is practically wasted. The children use one book at home and the other at school. 30. Would it be wasted if it could be taken home?—lt might be wasted by being lost. Objection is raised by some parents-to their children inheriting a dirty book from some one else's children. Some of them have bought arithmetic-books rather than allow the children to use second-hand books. 31. Mr. Kirk.] Speaking of the standard libraries, do you find that the children make use of the opportunities provided?— Yes; they use them very freely. 32. And you can speak well of the introduction of such standard libraries as far as other schools are concerned? —Yes. I would recommend them strongly to any school. 33. Is there any danger of these standard books becoming a source of danger, just as the free school-books are or may be? —Not more so than the books in a public library of any other kind. I have never had occasion to suspect the spread of disease from school-books. 34. Do you find that the children handle the books with care, as an elderly person would?— Yes; if they do not they are fined Id., and they may have to replace the book if it is seriously damaged. 35. From the teachers' point of view, if the charge of a secondary school were placed under the control of the Education Board, would you still be in favour of the retention of the High School Governors? —They might take the position of a School Committee. I think it is advisable to have local control in that way—that of people who would take an interest in the building and such matters, in the same way that a School Committee does. I think the functions of the Committee are very important, so long as they are not allowed to appoint teachers.
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36. The secondary schools have that at present, have they not?— Yes. 37. You believe in taking that power out of their hands even so far as secondary schools are Concerned? —Yes, if the larger Boards were formed. The smaller the body making the appointment the narrower is likely to be the outlook, and the more room there is for favouritism. 38. It is your opinion that no technical education should be introduced into the primary "schools?—That-is a thing to be guarded against. Nothing of the kind, as far as I know, exists at present; but there is a danger that misguided people not connected with education might force this thing upon the school. That is what made me speak so strongly against it. For instance, a farmer is apt to expect us to produce a full-blown farmer from the primary schools; the builder thinks that if a boy does good work it is as good as an apprenticeship. That is a phase that I think we must guard against. 39. You spoke of sexual immorality in the schools, and said that it was the result of ignorance rather than vice: now, what does this sexual immorality- amount to? —My personal experience has not shown me that there is anything of that kind to any marked extent in our schools. In fact, I have never personally come across a case. 40. But does it exist to a certain extent in the schools?—l am told so, but I cannot say so from personal experience, because, as I have said, I have never known of a case. 41. You do not agree that the teachers should teach sexual physiology?— No. I think it requires an expert, and a very tactful one at that. 42. The Chairman? You would not limit it to one teacher of this subject? There would have to be teachers of both sexes?— The girls would need to receive separate instruction from a qualified woman. 43. Mr. Kirk.] A suggestion has been thrown out that the Government might appoint dentists to inspect the children's teeth, and doctors to examine the children, more especially as to their liability to contract consumption : do you think that those persons could have duties cast upon them in this direction?— Not necessarily. They might have the medical and scientific knowledge, but not the necessary tact or skill to approach a boy or girl in the way they ought to be approached on such a delicate subject. 44. Have you any suggestion to offer as to the way of dealing with the matter ? —The suggestion made by the Institute is the only one that occurs to me —that the Department should select a suitable man and a suitable woman to pass through, all parts of the Dominion and deal with this matter in their respective sexes. It is not necessary that this matter should be constantly before the children. Once in a lifetime might be sufficient for one particular child. 45. Does it not really come to this : that it is the fatherly instinct rather than the teacher's instinct that is required in the person who undertakes such an office ? —The fatherly instinct, coupled with a reasonable amount of scientific knowledge. 46. Mr. Wells.] This morning's Herald devotes the leading article to our education system, in which it states that in the system we are spreading our efforts over too many subjects—that we should concentrate more: what is your opinion on that point? —I do not agree with that. If any teacher does spread his effort out he does it from a wrong conception not only of the syllabus, but of the principles of education. The spirit of the syllabus and the spirit of modern education is that subjects nominally separate should be correlated so that they form one undivided whole. There is no spreading if that is done. I think, the Commission might give some special attention to the question of the correlation of the work. Nominally there are a great many subjects in the syllabus, but they are so interrelated that they can be brought together so as to form practically one subject. If that is done, and Inspectors and teachers guard against quantative teaching, there is no spreading out of effort at all. 47. Auckland is the largest education district in the Dominion. Do you, as a representative teacher, know of any drawback resulting from the large size of the district?— Only that mentioned by Mr. Mulgan yesterday—that the Chief Inspector does not know all the teachers; and I do not think that it is a serious drawback. Ido not think it is necessary he should know them personally. He has an able staff, and he and they between them know all the teachers, and his skill is sufficient to judge a teacher from the report of his colleagues. 48. The Institute is anxious to see a Dominion promotion scheme in operation : do you think it would be possible to have a Dominion scheme with the present number of Boards? —It might be possible, but it would be faf better to reduce the number. The question of Inspectors would come in. There are too many districts with one Inspector in the district. 49. The question of movable pictures has been mentioned as a means of teaching : what is your opinion of the value of the movable picture as against the magic-lantern in the school with an abundant supply of slides? —I am experimenting on that subject now. I have arranged with the owners of a theatre near my school to give a matinee once a month, at which they will showthree or four films selected by me some time beforehand, in order that we may give lessons on the subject. We propose to take the children to see these films exhibited after they have a sufficient stock of ideas on the subject. I hope the result will be good, but, of course, the matter is in the experimental stage at present. 50. Have you had any experience of being handicapped in practice through the school growing faster than your assistance?—A. great deal of experience. For about nine years I was in schools that were constantly growing, and I can speak very definitely on the subject. 51. That the assistance does not come quickly enough? —Exactly. I will quote some cases from memory, and Ido not think I shall be far out. About the beginning of 1904 I took charge of a Whangarei school which had an average attendance of about 121. The staff consisted of one assistant teacher, two pupil-teachers, and myself—four altogether. To get the next assistant under the regulations in force at that time—and they are not very much modified now in that direction —we had to get an attendance of 180 for the quarter —that is, approximately sixty above
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what we were staffed for. We kept on growing for a number of years, until in the middle of .the year the school reached an attendance of 220. Just before that stage we had been staffed for 151, so that we got to be about seventy ahead of what we were staffed for. At a later stage things were not quite so bad, because the staff was stronger. I was there for six years, and it was not until the last few months that we were fully staffed. Then I came to the Mount Eden School. At the present time we are staffed for 851, and in more than one week we had an average of 958, or 107 above what we are staffed for. Our monthly average for February last was 942, and it dropped only because of an epidemic down to 926, just three below the number required to get another assistant with one quarter's work. Now we will go on for six months, and I am afraid that that epidemic will bring our average just below 920, so we may have to go on for three quarters with this number in excess of what we have staffed for. Those are cases in my own experience. 52. The Chairman.] In your own school, do you draw off from neighbouring schools to an appreciable degree?— No. I do not admit any child from outside my own district. In point of fact, I cannot admit all those from the district who apply. Sometimes I have 100 on the list waiting for admission. 53. Mr. Wells.] Do you know of any instance of overlapping or duplication in our education system?— There is a certain necessary amount between the technical schools and the high schools. I had charge of the technical school at Whangarei, and it was doing work somewhat similar to what was done in the high school, only that we did it in the evening and they did it in the day-time. 54. You spoke about the power to raise money locally for school purposes : would you be in favour of giving the Committee power to levy a local rate? —Not unless they were elected in a different way from the present method. 55. Do you think it would be possible to improve our play-grounds as part of the townplanning scheme? —Yes. It certainly is an essential part of any good town-planning. I think the play-ground might very well become public park. 56. You spoke of allowing a teacher who was getting beyond his best work on account" of age to retire from a school where his duties were heavy and take up lighter work without his superannuation suffering. Take another case —that of a young teacher placed in a 'rapidly growing district : do you think the Board should have power to remove that teacher if the school increases beyond his deserts I—l1 —I do not think any teacher should be removed from a position so long as he is able to do the work efficiently, but the moment he is unfitted to do the work I think he should be removed. 57. Take the case of a young man from the training college who goes to a school of the size twenty-five to thirty. Owing to the increase of settlement the school reaches an attendance of one hundred or more —a school which many an older teacher would be glad to get. Do you think the Board should have power to move that teacher, and advertise the position ? —Yes, if the thing were made general. It is a matter that has been under very warm discussion in the Auckland District recently—not in regard to such a case as you state, but in regard to assistants who were in a school before its grade went up and another assistant became appointed. Foi instance, a certain lady held a position of second assistant in a school when it was in Grade 9. The school got into Grade 10, and she was displaced by a man. She suffered nothing in salary; but it is a question whether by this process she was not virtually transferred from the position of sceond assistant to that of third assistant. Unless the thing were made perfectly general, I would approach that question with very great caution; but if it were understood that a teacher was definitely appointed to a definite position, and that when the conditions changed he was to seek some other sphere suitable to his attainments, I think it would be fair to give the Board the power. My point is that an efficient teacher should be left in his position, and an inefficient teacher should not be tolerated for a moment. 58. Mr. Pirani.] In regard to the last question, do you not see that your opinion strikes at the very root of a Dominion system of promotion?— Not necessarily. A Dominion system of promotion does not necessarily mean changing everybody when the grade of a school changes. In other words, a person is appointed only when there is a vacancy. 59. Surely a Dominion system of .promotion is based upon the merits of the teachers. Surely, if there is a teacher more fitted to take charge of a certain school than the teacher in it, then under a Dominion system the teacher in it should give place to a better teacher, and should take a lower place?— Within limits. Suppose a man occupies a certain position, and has 75 per cent, of marks for efficiency, I am not prepared to say that as soon as some one is found with 76 per cent, of marks he should replace the 75-per-cent. man. 60. But the case put to you was that of a teacher recently from the training college, who could not possibly have 75 per cent. Yet you say that if the school jumps even from fifty to a thousand, so long as that teacher was efficient, and had marks for efficiency, he should stay?—l did not speak of the marks. I spoke of his being able to carry on the work efficiently for the good of the,public. 61. Who is to be the judge?— The Inspector. 62. Would you give the teacher the right to appeal against the Inspector ?—I would give every man the right of appeal. 63. To the Appeal Court? —No. I thought you spoke of appeal from the Inspector's marking. 64. I am talking of the appeal against the teacher being transferred to a reduced position because the Inspector did not think he was up to the work?— You should not refuse the theoretical right of appeal to any one, but in a case of that kind it is surely improbable that any one would take up his case for him.
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65. You do not know much about the recent history of appeals, or the cost of appeals?—Oh, yes, I do. 66. The question I want you to answer is this : If the Inspectors and the Board consider that that teacher should be transferred to a lower grade of school, would you give that teacher the right of appeal to the Appeal Court? —Not against the Inspector. At least, I, as a member of the Institute, would not be any party- to the man appealing if the Inspector thought he was unfit for the position. 67. That is in the case of a transfer?— Either of a dismissal or a transfer. We invariably carry out that practice in Auckland. If a man cannot show that the Inspector's report upon his work is sufficiently good, we do not back his appeal. 68. With regard to the supply of stationery for the schools, do you make any levy upon the pupils? —No. The stationery is paid for out of the Board's grant. 69. Do you think that section (i) of clause 55 of the Education Act, where it prevents an assistant in a school being appointed headmaster of the same school, is a proper provision?—He is not prevented from being appointed, he is prevented from being transferred. As I understand the Act, if the position is advertised he has a perfect right to apply for it and to get it. 70. Then, how would he come out under a Dominion promotion list? Would his classification as an assistant put him ahead of the classification of headmaster in another school of somewhat smaller size? —In Auckland head teachers are classified on separate lists. The name of a man who has classified fairly well as head teacher of a country school may have no classification as an assistant. He may be on one list, but not on the other. 71. But some are on both? —Some on both and some on one only. 72. Are any of the assistants classified on the head teacher's list who are not head teachers at present?— Yes. 73. Do you think it desirable that there should be any limitation of the choice in the appointment of a head teacher ?—I think any assistant who is qualified ought to be eligible for appointment to any school. In the public interest, the best man available should be appointed. 74. You state that the recent regulations have provided against the reduction of a teacher's salary except in the case of inefficiency: is that so in regard to all teachers? —Within certain limits. For instance, in the case of falling attendance a man's salary cannot be reduced for—l think it is three years. 75. You do not know- that that does not apply to all teachers in the one school? —No, I thought it was a general rule. 76. You would be surprised to know that a teacher might lose his position altogether in a school, and be thrown out without anything to do?— That is so, but it is very unusual. 77. Do you not think that, if owing to a reduction in attendance a school goes down in grade, some provision ought to be made for the teacher? —It seems only just. The question is whether the public can afford to pay for teachers who have nothing to do. As a teacher, I would like to see the public pay a pension to any one who lost his position in that way, but as a citizen I do not see how the thing could be done except by transferring that teacher to another school. 78. In regard to decrease of the classification list, or sectional classification list, you said there ought to be some right of appeal. Is there any right of appeal under your system?— Not that I would call an appeal. The person has a right to come to the Board. Ido not know how the Board deals with the matter, but there is nothing in our scheme to say that any man has a right to be retried, as it were. 79. Is not the appeal to the Board the same as in Victoria? You appeal to the controlling Board there? —No. In Victoria a meeting of the Committee of Classification is called, and the man's record is fully gone into, and the thing begun de novo. I have never known a case where it was done here until the end of the period of two years. 80. With regard to your idea of having four education districts in New Zealand, do you not know that it would be utterly impossible to work Southern Westland in with Taranaki in one education district?—l would not attempt to put it in with Taranaki. 81. But it is with Taranaki in the Middle University district?— Then I am wrong in my idea of the boundaries of that district. 82. Do you think it is possible to get the work of the primary, technical, and secondary schools done by an unpaid Board for- each of the four districts? —It is a thing I have not thought about. It would certainly- involve a great loss of time to the members of the Board, and they ought to have some recompense. 83. Do you not think that if that happened your idea of a big saving by the abolition of the small clerical staff would amount to nothing?— They would not need to get princely revenues. 84. Neither do the staffs of the small education districts? —The Board must have its Secretary and its office, and I suppose its truant officers. One truant officer does for the whole of Auckland, and one Secretary for the whole of Auckland. A cadet in the office added to the staff of an office like this would be sufficient to do the extra work imposed by the inclusion of the small district. 85. You must remember that in some cases the Inspector and Secretary is one man ?—Yes, but only in a few cases. 86. Do you think the Inspectors now are so underworked that they would be unable to do the additional work of the smaller district without increase of staff?—Thev would simply absorb some of the present Inspectors. One man could do more than inspect the Grey District. T think that there are nearly as many children in my school as in the whole of the Grey District. 87. You talk about abolishing the Inspector's notice visits : do you call that an examination? —Too often it resolves itself into an examination. It is not so much any favour on the part of the Inspector as the overanxiety of the assistants to take all sorts of precautions that they shall not be found weak in any subject. I find it very difficult to restrain my staff from keeping children after hours —for instance, about this time of the year.
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88. Is not your idea more applicable to the large schools than to the small ones, where you have a responsible man at the head of the school ? —I think it is even more so at the small schools. '"If a man does not know when an Inspector will appear in his school he is more likely to keep his daily work up to the mark than if he knew he was to be tested at a stated period, and could cramp up to suit the case. 89. Docs it not strike you that as soon as an Inspector has visited a school the master may know that he will not be round again for a while, and so he can slacken off? —If I were an Inspector I would not let him get that idea. I would appear again without notice. 90. How many Inspectors would you require for Auckland if they were to turn up occasionally every month?—lt would not be necessary to turn up so often as that. The examination of the big schools takes two men. At my own school last year one Inspector was inspecting for not quite four days. Two came a little later, and spent three days. That is ten days of Inspectors' time taken up. A great deal of it was unnecessary, because the two men who spent three days examining found out no more about the school than the one man found in inspecting it. They would have been better in the backblocks helping some teacher who needed assistance. My idea of the Inspector's work is that he should go to the help of teachers in the small schools—be a guide rather than a critic. 91. The Chairman.] There should be less inspection and more instruction? —That is my idea. 92. Mr. Pirani.] Do you think the majority of the teachers are capable enough to be judges of the work in their own schools?—lf they were not capable of doing that I would not let them teach. 93. Then would it not be a good idea to abolish the Inspectors altogether?—No, because the Inspector is a very highly skilled man. A man may be capable of teaching and classifying, and yet not be a man at the head of his profession as an Inspector is. 94. What test would you say an Inspector ought to make as to the efficiency- of a school? —A man who knows his business would in a very short time satisfy himself after he had seen the teacher at work, observed the tone of the school, and seen the work done in the copy-books and exercise-books. I would undertake to form a fairly sound judgment upon a teacher without examining any of his pupils. 95. Do not the regulations allow that now? —Yes, but they are not always carried out. 96. Then, you complain of the interpretation of the regulations rather than the regulations themselves? —Nine-tenths of the criticism of the syllabus should be levelled at the interpretation of the syllabus. 97. In regard to the election of these new educational bodies, does it net strike you that you want to put the power into the hands of the residents in the cities? Take Auckland for instance? — We have wards. It would be absurd to have people at Lake Taupo voting for a man who lived at the North Cape. 98. Then, you would not elect the Board on the popular basis? —Yes, but for wards. Members of Parliament are elected on the popular basis, but the whole Dominion does not elect any one man. 99. They are elected on a popular basis, but there is a handicap against the cities of 28 per cent. ?—There is no reason why that should, not apply to these elections; I said on a popular basis, not a population basis —on a democratic basis, if you like to put it that way. 100. Mr. Kirk.] Is it possible in New Zealand for an}' teacher to be reduced in salary or to lose his position in a school? —Quite possible. That is the case Mr. Pirani was quoting. 101. Even in view of the great outcry there is for teachers? —In view of the present circumstances, it is practically impossible for a competent person to be unemployed, but supposing the supply were to be in excess of the demand it would be possible. 102. But that does not exist at the present time? —No. 103. The Chairman.] Is there any means by which a Board can dispose of this man's services? —I do not know of any case that has come under my notice in Auckland where a man has been out of a place. Our Board has been very paternal in this respect, and generally finds such a man a position as relieving teacher. 104. But he relieves only until a proper position is found for him? —Just so. 105. Mr. Hogben.] You speak of twelve or thirteen subjects being required for the first section of the D examination? —I said there were about fourteen in the whole examination, and about twelve in the first section. I speak stibject to correction. I have not counted them carefully. 106. Take English language, composition, history, and civics : would you call those four subjects as they are classified here? —Yes, they require separate study, and in the case of a pupilteacher who is tired after his day's work it is a serious business to undertake that study. 107. Drawing used to be called one subject. It is now three, for the sake of division : would you reckon those as three subjects?—l did in speaking of them. 108. Have you considered the question of graded desks instead of adjustable desks? —The difficulty is to know the exact proportion required. It is difficult to say how many- children you have of a given size. With that proviso graded desks would be very well. We have them here to some extent, as a matter of fact. 109. You said in one portion of your evidence that with a staff for 151 you had to go on with a range of seventy: is it quite correct to call that the staff for 151? Was it not the staff for the number from 151 to 200?— Yes. 110. Could you not equally well say it was staffed for 200 in all grades? —When you are near the top of a grade the classes are very difficult to manage. They are unwieldy. 111. But did not 151 rather overstate it. Was it not well staffed for the minimum attendance? —I quoted the minimum in each case. 112. Would it not be fairer to call it a staff for 17R—half-way between the two?— That would be fairer; it would leave a good margin.
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Eri'HEMiA Sisipson examined on oath. (No. 5.) 1. The Chairman.] What are your position and qualifications? —I hold aCI certificate, and I am 'in charge of Standard IV in the Newton East School, Auckland. I am President of the Women's Branch of the Auckland District Educational Institute, and I speak on behalf of the -lady teachers in the primary schools. The Women's Branch of the Auckland District Educational Institute desires to ask this Commission to consider the question of improving the status of women in our schools. We are, and have been for some time, in communication with representative women in other districts, and there is no doubt whatever that a very deep and growing feeling of unrest and dissatisfaction prevails among the women in the education service throughout NewZealand —the southern women are indeed preparing a petition to Government on the subject— but particularly in Auckland and Otago, where the local Boards have persistently refused to admit the claims of women to any of the higher assistantships in schools of Grades 9 and 10, and have practically excluded them from the charge of schools of Grade 4. It is hardly necessary to point out that the widespread existence of deep discontent occasioned by these inequalities must militate against the efficiency- of a large body of teachers —no group of men or women can do the best work while smarting under a keen sense of injustice. It is against human nature to expect it, and our schools must suffer as long as this feeling exists. It is not suggested that the work of the women in the schools is inferior to that of the men. They are required to take the same certificate and to work the same number of hours in any part of the school that the headmaster chooses, and yet, in spite of their ability- and faithful service, able and experienced women have to suffer the humiliation of seeing young and comparatively incompetent men placed in positions above them, to the serious detriment of the schools for which they have worked so hard. The injustice does not cease when they retire, for they do so on a pension much less than that of the men who have only done equal work with them throughout their teaching career. Some of our women are leaving the service to take up other work, and, owing to the prevailing unrest and dissatisfaction, there is not the slightest doubt that others will do the same. It is becoming increasingly difficult to get teachers. A few years ago our local Board advertised in the dailypapers requesting married women teachers to re-enter the service. The position has evidently not improved at all, for married teachers who have been out of the Board's employment for years have quite recently- been invited to take up the work again, and uncertificated teachers have been sent to many schools, simply because no others were available. It is growing more and more difficult to recruit the ranks from girls of the right type, for the finest girls of to-day are not going to enter a profession where, no matter how talented they may be, they see nothing ahead but a hopeless blind alley as far as promotion is concerned, ff they are to be kept in subordinate positions they prefer some less arduous occupation—one that does not make so many demands upon them, or entail so much self-sacrifice and brain-weariness. And, besides, there are other fields of industry where women of outstanding ability may earn very much more than they can ever hope to do at teaching, so that the inducements to enter this profession are becoming less and less. Then, again, owing to the fact that all the highest positions are held by men, the girls' side of the schools is becoming more and more neglected, and surely their training is at least as important as that of the boys. In some of our largest schools the Fifth and Sixth girls are taught entirely by men, while in most the Sixth class is in charge of a man. It can hardly be expected that many of the underpaid junior woman assistants will in the future qualify themselves to do such important and difficult work when they know- it will bring no corresponding increase of salary; and yet the Sixth girls in every school should be under the constant charge and supervision of a competent woman. They are just entering into womanhood, and, from the very nature of things, no man is capable of controlling and directing their energies as wisely as a woman can. lie can teach them square root and the use of the globes, but he can never have that sympathetic understanding of them which is such a vital factor in their education. It sounds incredible, I know, but there are men who actually cane the senior girls —not many, but some. It is a good thing I believe for men to take these girls' classes at regular intervals, for the man's influence helps to round out their character in other directions; they are the better for both influences, but the woman's should predominate, and under the present system it is almost completely absent. Again, as long as all the responsible positions in the schools are held by men, it seems obvious that the domestic training of girls can never take the important place it should occupy in our educational system. This matter vitally affects the general efficiency of our schools, for no system of education can be called efficient that has not some more or less direct bearing on the future career of the children. For all these reasons we consider that the efficiency of our education system would be greatly increased by giving women more responsible positions than they hold in our schools at the present time —that the principal woman assistant in the higher-grade schools should hold at least equal rank at equal salary with the second male assistant. 2. Mr. Davidson.] Have you ever considered the advisability of classifying male and female teachers separately, as is done in many other countries?— They are graded separately in Auckland. 3. I am not speaking of Auckland particularly, but a general grading for the whole Dominion ?—You mean by that that the schools would ultimately become separated into boys' and girls' schools. 4. No, if you look at the scale of staffing and salaries you will find no distinction of sex whatever exists there? —That is so. 5. We will take the Victorian system. Under the scale of staffing and under the scale of salaries there is a'separate classification of the sexes, and the positions and salaries of the first male assistant and first female assistant can be readily compared. Would it not be in the interests of the women if they could compare the salaries under such a system as that? —I do not exactly understand what you mean. The women in Victoria are not satisfied. They are agitating over
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there —I have a paper from one of them—for equal pay for equal work, and that women should be eligible for all positions in the service as well as men in our mixed schools, unless you separate the boys from the girls. 6. It is not a question of separating the classes in schools; it is simply a question of classifying the male and female teachers so far as salaries are concerned. I will take such a school as Mr. McKenzie represents. The first female assistant in such a school in Victoria receives a much larger salary than the first female assistant in that school in New Zealand. She occupies in Mr. McKenzie's school, I take it, the position of third assistant? —Yes. 7. Well, instead of being third assistant, if you had separate classification she would be styled first female assistant, and her salary would be very much better. Under such a system would you not then be able to state your case more readily, and let the public see the position more easily?—lt. is a subject I have given no thought to; I will have to think it over. 8. If you were in a school of over 600 in average attendance, would you prefer to be called first female assistant or third assistant? —I would not care very much what I was called, so long as I received a salary proportionate to the position and proportionate to the work I was called upon to perform. 9. If there was a separate classification, and you were first female assistant, and received a salary at least equal to the second man, you would be satisfied ? —That is all we ask for at present —simply that we should receive a salary equal to the second man. Of course, what we might do in the future, or what we wish in the future, is another matter. 10. If the scale of salaries in New Zealand were altered in such a way as to give the first female assistant a salary equal to that received by the second male, would you be satisfied ? —Yes, for the present. That is all we are asking. 11. You said something about the question of superannuation. I suppose you know that women may retire after thirty years' service? —Yes. 12. And are you aware that women have retired already at the age of forty-two?—l did not know of any case at the age of forty-two. I have heard of several at the age of forty-five. 13. Would you be surprised to know that at least one lady has retired on half her salary at the age of forty-two? —That will be a very exceptional case, I think. 14. That is exceptional, but it is not at all an unusual thing to have begun teaching at the age of fifteen or sixteen as pupil-teachers, and all these women may retire at the age of forty-five or forty-six. Do you not see, then, that women are placed in a very advantageous position in regard to superannuation as compared with men?— Yes, they are; but, of course, if a woman retired after thirty years' service she retires on thirty sixtieths of her salary, and when a man goes on he retires on forty sixtieths. Again, the women have had very small salaries, and the pensions are relatively very small. Of course, it may be half her salary, but her salary was very small to begin with. 15. We will suppose that a woman has reached the highest salary that can be reached in Otago, taking the district that you have specified as excluding women from the position of second assistant —women in Otago may receive a salary of £210 per annum, and taking a particular case I have in my mind at the present time, we will suppose she started at fifteen years of age. By the time she is fifty she will have served for thirty-five years, and she will then retire on thirty-five sixtieths of £210, which is a very fair annuity indeed. No man can retire until at least ten years later. Is that not so? —Five years later. The minimum retiring age is sixty, or after forty years' service. 16. So that a woman may receive an annuity ten years before a man, and, of course, a man has a much shorter period in which to enjoy his annuity? —Yes. The women certainly have an advantage in the superannuation, but I think if we were placed on exactly the same footing in regard to salaries we would not mind being placed on the same footing in regard to superannuation. 17. Do you think it is a question of what the women prefer, or is it a question of what is best in the interests of the children ?—You think women are incapacitated sooner than men ? 18. Do you not know that educational authorities consider that when a woman has reached the age of fifty-five, and probably has taught for forty years, it would be in the interests of education that she should retire? —J, think it depends altogether on the woman. The Chief Superintendent of Schools of Chicago is a woman, and she was appointed to that position when over the age of sixty years, at a salary of $10,000 a year. 19. That is an exceptional case? —It is exceptional. 20. Coming back to this question of assistants, what women really ask for is not that the position of second assistant in a school should be closed against women, but simply that the first woman on the staff should receive a salary equal to the second man ?—That is what they have asked for. They have no desire to curtail the salaries of the men in the slightest. All they want is to secure fair and reasonable salaries for themselves. 21. Then you refer to the exclusion of women from schools of Grade 4: can you give a specific case? —I can only quote the figures. In schools of Grade 4in Auckland only seven women have been appointed, and I could not find one in Otago, so I say they are practically excluded. 22. Do you know of any women in Otago who had been teaching for, say, twenty-five years in a third-grade school, and who, because that school increased to over thirty-six in average attendance, was practically dismissed from the service? —I knew of that case; it was mentioned at the Timaru Conference. 23. Do you know her classification? —She was a degree woman, I believe. 24. I understand that what you desire is that in schools of Grade 4 the head-teachership should be open to all competent women?—l think so.
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25. Would you carry that further? Suppose a school of Grade 4 rose to Grade 5, would you allow her to remain ?—I see no reason why she should not. •~26. To carry that to a logical conclusion, it does not matter what size that school grew to, you think she should still remain as head teacher?—l think so. I do not see any- reason why women should be excluded from any position at all in the service. 27. What about the control of the boys in our schools, and military drill? —At present, as far as military drill is concerned, if the men drill the boys the women give physical drill to the i girls, and they also take an extra subject in sewing, which men cannot take, and that goes against the cadet work which the men do. I think in a school of that kind a junior male teacher should be quite competent to take the cadet work just as a junior female teacher will take sewing. 28. In Mr. McKenzie's school there is an average attendance of 926 : do you think that awoman should have the right to be head teacher of that school ?—I see no reason whatever why' a very competent woman should not have it. 29. Mr. Thomson.] Do you know of any reason why the Boards in Otago and Auckland exclude female teachers from the position of second assistant in schools of Grades 9 and 10 ?—One reason that has been offered to us is that we cannot take cadet work. 30. That is the only reason you are aware of? —I do not know of any other reason that has been brought forward. 31. You never heard it advanced that a woman could not carry on a school as efficiently as a male teacher?—l have not heard it from the Board as an official announcement. 32. You do not know whether these Boards have ever expressed that opinion? —I have not been in a position to know what opinion the Board has on that matter. Of course, the Board is entirely composed of men, and they would be apt to have one-sided opinions. 33. You considers female teacher is equally as capable as a male teacher of conducting any class of school in primary work?—l think so. In American schools I think a good deal of that is done by women, and we have one notable instance where a woman has done that. I will take the Mount Eden School. A woman there is in charge of a very large department of over three hundred children, and she organizes and manages that department with perfect satisfaction. If that number were doubled or trebled, Ido not see why she should not do it as well. Of course, the women in New Zealand do not get the opportunity to try to manage these big schools, so f cannot give you any certain information as to whether they could or could not do so, but I see no reason whatever why they should not be capable of it. Sometimes we are asked how we would deal with the big boys in case of difficulty. Well, my- experience has been that big boys are easier to manage than girls. I find that with tact and discretion you can go a long way, and many women manage them admirably. There is only one last resort women cannot take, and that is the cane, and if the final ground of preference between men and women is the ability to use the cane, then the best way to obviate the difficulty- would be to have well-regulated whippingmachines in the schools. 34. Do you think it would improve matters if women were eligible for seats on the Board?— I think they are eligible now, but it would improve matters considerably if they had seats on the Board. 35. Mr. Kirk.] Is there a real danger of the lady teachers resigning from the service if this scale of salaries is not revised? —I think so. We compiled a list —I have not got it with me —of women who have resigned during the last few years, and taken up other occupations. Some of them were very good teachers indeed. They did not resign to be married, but to take up other work. 36. Do you know the nature of the other work? —Yes; I know in two cases the women have gone into journalism, and in another case I think the woman is a typiste, but whether her salary has increased or not I cannot say; but she probably prefers a low salary there to the low salary in teaching, where the work is so very arduous. 37. You do not think it is to some extent matter of preference of employment, and that now these other "avenues are open it is merely preference of employment that has taken the ladies in these directions? —Of course, there may be something in that. In days gone by there was only one respectable occupation for women, and that was teaching. Nowadays there are many. 38. Do you think that the increasing status would be the desideratum after all?—It would largely tend to keep women in the profession. Dissatisfaction is rife throughout the whole of the Dominion now. We are in a position to know. The women are actually getting up a petition on the subject. 39. Apart from your evidence-in-chief, can you help us so far as your observations are concerned as to any improvements in the methods of teaching, or as to any improvements in the educational system from a woman's point of view? —Yes, we have recommendations to make, but another member of the executive is going to speak about them; she is prepared to answer any question on that topic. 40. Mr. Wells.] Did I understand you to say that the girls now coming forward are not equal to those who came forward in the past? —I did not positively say they were not, but I think it is more difficult to induce girls of that type to do so. I am speaking from personal experience, because I have tried to get two or three girls of my acquaintance to enter the profession, but they are all looking ahead, and they are looking so far ahead that they do not like it. 41. You are aware, I suppose, that a far greater number of girls offer than boys?— Yes, I know there are. You will always get women in your schools; there is absolutely no doubt about that. 42. You know it is a difficult matter to get a supply of males? —I know it is difficult to get either.
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43. And you also know the Legislature actually protects women, inasmuch as it says that there must be a certain number —that at least one of the first three assistants shall be a woman?—l do not think that is meant to protect the interests of the women; I think it is to protect the interests of the Boards. 44. There is absolutely nothing to protect women holding any position?— Nothing except the practice of the local Boards. 45. Are women prepared to have the whole thing thrown open to competition, and allow the question of efficiency and the welfare of the school to be the determining factor ?—We have been satisfied with that so long, and you see the result. You see the case I quoted a little while ago, where a woman, according to the Board's own reading, was more competent than the man, and yet she did not get it. We feel now that there must be some security. 46. I do not know whether you remember the case of a woman in charge of a school in town who took charge when the school was quite small, and remained in charge while it grew, until there were between two and three hundred in attendance, and then the residents petitioned for a male teacher? —Yes, but do the people always understand this thing? 47. Do you know that the discipline was so bad that the residents petitioned for a male teacher ?—I cannot understand that, because I taught as a pupil-teacher with that lady, and she was an extremely competent woman, and quite capable of managing her school whilst I was there. 48. You referred to the question of the Boards being composed of men. You do not mean to insinuate that a Board composed of men will not give justice to a woman ?—I do not mean to insinuate anything. I only mean to state the plain fact that they have not done so. 49. But have they not to consider the question of the efficiency and welfare of the school, apart from sex altogether?— They may think they are doing so, but I think the question of efficiency has not been consiTlered by them, or they would give women better positions. 50. You referred to America, and the positions women hold there, but do you also consider that in some of the American States as much as 90 per cent, of the teaching profession consists of women, and there is no choice of men for these positions? —Well, the American system of education is supposed to be a very good one. 51. Except that it does not offer any inducements to men? —Well, the schools seem to be run very well by the women; the education there seems to be pretty efficient. 52. But the salaries offered are so low that men will not enter the teaching profession there? — It does not seem to have lowered to such a terrible degree the efficiency of the schools there. Of course I think there should be both. 53. I suppose you would admit that more men go into the teaching profession to make a life work of it than women ?—Yes. 54. Do you not think that should be taken into consideration ? —I do not think that has any real bearing on the question—that because some women leave the profession those who choose to remain in it are penalized. A fairly large number of men give up teaching for other work, and yet we never hear the question raised of penalizing those who remain in the profession to the slightest degree, and if these women do marry and go out of the service the State is really not losing them, because each one sets up a little home school, and that is best of all. 55. You mean when a trained woman teacher marries, her work is still going on for the benefit of the whole State? —Yes. 56. You mention the question of sewing and drill : have you also considered the fact that outside the teaching of drill, which may fairly be set against the teaching of sewing as special subjects for men and women, there comes in the question of outside parades, and the claims the cadet work makes on men outside the ordinary school-work that is required of women? —I have thought of that, and made a calculation about it. If lam wrong you will correct me. I have calculated that these men cannot actually take, outside school hours, more than twenty-four hours' extra work in the year when the women are at home. If you calculate a man at £250 a year his time is worth 4s. an hour, and even if you double that it will be Bs. an hour. Well, a bonus of £10 per year for extra cadet work will amply cover all the work he does. 57. You are assuming that it does not take more than twenty-four hours, and you are perhaps losing sight of the fact that he has to give up holidays?— These holidays are often special holidays. I think they had a parade for General Godley, and that was not one of the usual holidays. I think the women are perfectly willing to-'give up these holidays as well, and take the girls for first-aid work on them. The women do not ask for these holidays. 58. Do you not think that the one question is the efficiency of the school, and that it does not matter whether the teacher is really a man or woman?— That is the question, and we contend the efficiency is being interfered with by the absence of women from these high positions. 59. You would be quite content to see all positions thrown open to applicants so long as you are sure all would be fairly treated?—-Yes. 60. Mr Pirani? In regard to Education Boards, are you aware there have been Education Boards in the Dominion with women on them?—T was not aware of it 61. There was one in Taranaki and one at Hawke's Bay, and I believe there was one in Canterbury at one time. Do you know if the condition of women in Taranaki and Hawke's Bay is any better than in Auckland? —One woman on a Board would not be likely to have much influence. 62. It depends on the woman. I believe you know that one man often runs the whole Board? —When it came to a vote one woman would only have one vote on the subject, and she would not be able to do much. I think there have not been enough women on the Boards to counterbalance the prejudice of the men. 63. Do you know if any woman has stood for the Education Board in the Auckland District, and has been rejected? —No; but I could quite imagine they would be rejected.
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64. Do you not think it would be a good idea if your association put forward a candidate or two, and showed the metal of the women, because your complaint seems to be not against the Department, but purely against the administration of the Boards? —Yes, largely. 65. Has your association done anything to counterbalance the bad effect of having men on the Boards?— Our association has only been in existence a very short time, and we have not done anything in that respect as yet. 66. Is it not a matter of fact that of late years the position of women in the educational system has vastly improved?— Yes, but only relatively. It is improved on what it used to be, but not in comparison with the position of men. 67. Is not the salary women get nowadays very much better than it was twenty years ago?— Yes, but by reason of the increased cost of living the extra salary is relatively small. 68. The cost of living depends on the individual : some people are content to live on 6d. a day?— Women do not want to be the ones to be content to live on 6d. a day. 69. Do you not think it would be a very much fairer thing to classify the men and w-omen in the same classification scheme, and let them take their chance for promotion ?— The Auckland Educational Institute approached the Board requesting that that be done—that all teachers be put on one graded list and all positions thrown open. That has not been accorded, and Ido not think our Board, from what I understood at the time, is in favour of it. 70. Do you know- whether there is any reluctance on the part of the women to take sole charge of schools? —Some women would not feel themselves competent to do so, but a great number of women would feel themselves competent. Some of the men are not competent to do it. 71. But the men do it if they are told? —The fact of the matter is that women never have a chance to do these things in Auckland and Otago. 72. In regard to women going out from teaching to other occupations, are they young teachers, or teachers who have been years in the service? —The cases I have in my mind were women of a little over twenty years' experience—some may be less. 73. And do you think, as a typiste, that a woman would get anything like what she gets in a school after twenty years' experience? —Possibly not, but then she would not have anything like the arduous work. 74. Do you not think she would have longer hours ?—Longer hours do not matter so very much. We have long hours. We do not work just five hours a day, because we have a good deal of work outside the actual school hours. Some women would rather take less salary and take less arduous work if they cannot hope to have these good positions. 75. Do you not think that the question of study and examinations has something to do with the women leaving the service—that they would prefer not to face that? —I do not think-so. I think women are just as hard working in the matter of examination-work as the men, but women have found for so many years that it is no use qualifying, as it did not bring them any advantage. 76. The women in the Auckland District? —And in Otago; and these are two of the biggest districts; and even in Canterbury. 77. Do you think that a reduction in the size of the districts might favour the claims of women, then? —I have not considered the question, but the small districts are proportionately just as bad. In Wanganui no woman holds that position. 78. Do you know- we have four women teaching fourth-grade schools in our small district? — That is at a salary of £190. 79. Do you know we have two women in other schools getting £260 and house-allowance? Do you think your association would be satisfied with such a promotion list as we hay is, that the women and men should be put on an equal footing in the promotion list, and should get an equal chance to have an appointment, from the headmaster right downwards?—l do not think we can give up our present position for that, because we have been so long kept out of these positions that we have no confidence in the Boards to give them. 80. What is being advocated is a Dominion system of promotion for the whole of New Zealand, and on that list every teacher would be classified according to that teacher's attainments and efficiency. If there was a Dominion system, do you think jour association would be satisfied to be put on an equal footing in all respects with men in regard to promotion and salary ?—That requires thought. I think we would like first to have women Inspectors as well as men Inspectors. 81. We have teachers here who practically advocate the abolition of Inspectors?—lf there are to be Inspectors at all, let there be women Inspectors as well as men. 82. Before you would be prepared to go on a promotion list on on equality with men you think there should be women Inspectors?— Yes, to safeguard our interests. Of course, I am speaking personally. That is a question that has not been discussed by the association. 83. How are the women teachers in this district satisfied with their positions on the promotion list —with the estimate of their ability? —That is a question I cannot answer. Our positions are not known on the graded list. We know what marks are awarded. 84. Have you ever heard any dissatisfaction expressed with the maximum marks awarded to women by Inspectors?—No, I cannot say I have, but I think if people were graded low and were dissatisfied with their markings they would not be likely to speak about the matter. 85. Would they not have the right to appeal?— They have the right to appeal, but they would not care to have the matter generally known. I know one lady who is exceedingly dissatisfied with her marks, but she would not let it be known except to a few intimate friends who were not supposed to tell anybody. That is the only case I can give you from personal knowledge. .86. So you have no absolute reason to be dissatisfied with the marking by the Inspectors on the promotion list except that theoretically you think a man would not be fair to women? We are only judging by past experience. In the particular case I have mentioned the woman was
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graded higher on her list than the man on his list, and yet the man got the position, while the woman whose headmaster speaks of her in these eulogistic terms was debarred from applying for the position because of the terms of the advertisement. 87. But on an ideal list there would be no such thing as an application; they would take the list as it" stood and award promotion from that list: do you not think that would be a fair ■system?— Yes- it would be fair if the sexes were represented equally on the Inspectorate, or the body who assessed the marks. In the meantime we want something practical. 88. Mr. Hogben.] Will you look at the salary of Grade 9a. The first assistant has a salary of Grade 6—namely, £240 to £270; and the second assistant has a salary of Grade 4—namely, £180 to £210; and the third assistant has a salary of Grade 3—namely, £150 to £180 : is the effect of your proposal to substitute a salary of £180 to £210 instead of the salary of £150 to £180?— That is it. 89. Now, I will ask you in regard to a little practical difficulty, but a difficulty all the same. Supposing you had a Board that would sufficiently recognize the merits of deserving women to appoint a woman first assistant : would you in a case like that raise the salary of the two men whom we will assume to be in the second and third positions before I —l do not know really. Why should we not take the salary as it is and let the men come next in order? Suppose a woman is appointed first assistant, why should not a man be appointed second assistant, and take second place, and not change the salary at all? 90. Then, if a woman got a third position, you would give her a salary of Grade 4—namely, £180 to £210; but you would have to make a proviso that a man only got a salary of £150 to £180 : is not that what it would come to? —There are actual difficulties in the way. 91. Have you thought, of that difficulty?—No, I have not thought of it. There are dual positions in the school. There is a, dual position lower dowm. 92. Would you get over the difficulty by making the second and third salaries the same in all cases? —Yes; then there would be fifty-five positions involved if we did that, because in some of these cases a man would have to come up and in some the woman would have to come up. There are some men now holding second-assistantships in these schools. For instance, in Canterbury there are a number of men holding third-assistantships, and if we bring these up there are, according to my counting, fifty-five positions involved. 93. In a Dominion scale you would bring up that third position everywhere, would you not? —It would have to be. 94. Would you alter it by changing the schedule? —1 think I would leave that to the experts. I have really no practical suggestion to offer. We only simply ask for the measure to be done. We have not thought as to how it should be done. 95. Mr. Davidson.] Have you any idea as to the number of women teachers retiring before the age of forty or forty-two, wo will say?—No, I have not the statistics. 96. Then you do not know that 81 per cent, of the women retire from the teaching service— mainly, of course, to be married —before reaching the age of forty-two?—l did not know the percentage. I knew there was a very large number. 97. That means only nineteen of every hundred women trained by the State remain any considerable length of time in the service?— They go out into the service in another way. 98. The Chairman.] On economic grounds, is it not a fair position to take up that a woman who goes out of the service as a well-trained teacher, becomes a mother, and fulfils her duties in the household has done the State quite as much service as a man who goes out into the world from the teaching profession into other walks of life?— That was my contention. 99. You complained just now that the women do not get that amount of representation on Boards or Committees that their potential interests entitle them to, in your judgment. Supposing it was a fact, as has been suggested, .that additional responsibility should be put upon Education Boards to control the education not only of primary schools, but of secondary and technical schools, would you favour any proposition by which women under an altered franchise could become eligible for seats thereon, or would you adopt what is known in other countries as the co-option principle, by which women, without having to go through the fatigue, &c, of an election, can, by- reason of their attainments and knowledge of the theory and practice of education, find seats on these Boards? —I would certainly favour that system. 100. Your contention is that if a""woman be capable of efficient teaching in any grade of a public school she should be entitled to the salary attached to that position, irrespective of sex? —Yes. Margaret Slingsbt Newman examined on oath. (No. 6.) 1. The Chairman.] What are your qualifications?—l am a teacher in the Normal School. I have a D certificate. 2. How long have you been employed teaching there? —Six years. 3. I understand you appear before the Commission as a representative of the women teachers in this provincial district? —Yes. I have three matters to speak about. I think I shall speak about kindergarten first. Ido not think I need advocate the kindergarten. I think it is recognized even in New Zealand. It is supported by the Government, and acknowledged by them in one sense. What lam here to suggest is that the kindergarten be incorporated with the public system of education. The kindergarten has always been rather a separate thing. That probably is because of the manner of its inauguration, but in most countries it has been found advisable to place it in its logical position as part of the educational system of the country. I will give my reasons for this. First, because the kindergarten has had a greater influence in reshaping educational ideals than almost anj'thing else. Its theory is accepted and practised in every department of education, but it cannot be effective unless the teachers of the kinder-
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garten have the right understanding of their work. This is a very big question, because many people undertake the teaching of kindergartens who are not properly trained for the work. The responsibility ought to rest, and can only rest, with those who have control of them. Nothing has done more harm, not only in the kindergarten in Auckland but in other places, than to have falsely called kindergartens. In Victoria a free kindergarten association was established, and a kindergarten was also established in connection with the training college, and the free kindergarten finally gave up its functions to the Government, because they found that the work could be done better by the Government authorities. The problem is not the only one we have. In every country where they have had kindergartens the fact that kindergartens falsely so called have been established has not only exercised a bad influence, but has given a false impression of the kindergarten. Another reason is that the kindergarten forms the link between the home and school life. We all know that the life of the child at the school has hitherto been separated from the life of the child at home. Also, the kindergarten has a great influence on the home. It tends to create higher standards and make the parents feel their responsibility more. Some people say it takes the responsibility from the parents by taking the children away at an earlier age, but in practice that is not so. The influence of the kindergarten is just in the other direction. The parents find the children can be trained in different ways, and they find that it makes a great difference to them. Now, the children of the towns have kindergartens, but they have them as a charity, and I think they should have them as their right, and not as a charity. I might say I asked the head of the kindergarten in Auckland what she thought about it — whether she thought it would be better —and she said decidedly it would be very much better to work in an organized way under the Government. Again, people always talk about the expense of things. Training colleges are already equipped to train kindergarteners, and should easily do the work, so that there need be no trouble in that way. Another matter I would like to bring forward is about schools for children whose development is not normal. Of course, this does not refer to children whose development is such that they will never be able to take part in social life. Proper schools are provided for them. The schools I mean are those for children whose development is such that if they were attended to they could do some work and become somewhat socially efficient. In every large school there are many children of this type. Besides retarding the progress of other children they themselves must be very much discouraged : they must lose hope, and also self-respect. Again, children of this type are very often so pitied that they are spoilt. People do not expect them to put forth any effort or to do anything for themselves, so really while they are perhaps especially cared for they are made less efficient than they might be, and what has been done in kindness to them really hinders their advancement. Many teachers have these children in their schools, and they feel sure that if special schools were established with the object of helping these children to a better development, and perhaps drafting them into the ordinary schools later on, they could give them special training to make them efficient. Of course, a school like that would have to be very carefully named, because if this were not done it might constitute a reproach later on to these children. The teacher, of course, would have to be specially trained in special courses of study. Emphasis would be laid on manual arts. In speaking of this I am thinking of something like the open-air schools they have in London. Of course, the cost would be considerable, but the money would be well spent, and it would be spent in forming instead of reforming. At present we know very little of what happens to these children after they leave the school, but we know from what they are like when they leave school that they must become members of society that hinder instead of helping progress. Perhaps the most important thing I have to speak about is the training of girls in domestic work. I need not labour the question as to the necessity for this. I heard somebody say that it was almost impossible to overestimate the difference it would make in the efficiency of a nation if its women were trained in the scientific principles that underlie the daily tasks of the house. There was a theory that young girls should be given a good general education, and that common-sense would teach them the rest; but this has been wholly disproved. We forget sometimes in thinking of the girls' education that the schools were really established for boys only in the beginning. Girls were not admitted very much, and then when it was realized that girls had to be educated they were sent to the schools whose curriculum had been established for boys. That is a broad statement, and practically what was done. Many efforts have been made to readjust boys' education to suit new social adjustments, but very little has been done to help the girls. The first effort to grapple with this problem was made through the kindergarten schools established for training girls. If we say the girls are to be trained, the question arises for us, does part of the training belong to the primary school. I think it does. All life,, but especially domestic life, demands resource in meeting situations and dealing with problems, and you cannot learn this in a three-months continuation course—in a short laundry course or cooking course. It must be a habit of life and the result of training. If you watch a class at work in any school—say, Standard 111 or Standard II —you will see that at the end of the day very little has been done to help the children in this direction. They have had plenty of training in docility and obedience in carrying out the teacher's will and wishes, but there has been no initiative to meet and solve problems. It is quite a common thing for teachers to say that the best-trained children are the monitors, and many teachers I know try to have as many children as possible in their class monitors, so as to give them the benefit of this kind of.training. Then, a less demand was made on girls formerly than now by school life. Now girls are obliged to go to school and do a great deal of work, and they have very little chance of learning anything at home, so their home training gives them very little of this work. Another thing is that the girl's estimate of this work will be that of her "school. In other branches of science, such as engineering,-efforts were made to give these branches in the Universities such an honour that degrees could be conferred, and it is in the same sense that I refer to the girls' work at school—they should be given a sense of the dignity of housework. It should be considered
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quite something worth doing, and unless we have that attitude encouraged at school I am afraid they will not get it afterwards. Whatever our school life does, it gives our pupils a tendency in certain directions, and if the tendency be not in the direction of any work of that kind we cannot make it up to the girls afterwards. If you think for a moment of the school life of a girl you will realize how little she hears about the textures of material, about food and mixtures, and about the implements in common use in the home. There are occasional references to these, but no systematic reference. 1 hold that housewifery of any description can only be learned by doing. It cannot be learned by any other means. No teacher standing up and wisely talking to the girls can help them much in this direction, and so it must be a taught subject. Then, again, the home is utterly divorced from the school at present. I hold that a child who really belongs to both should work in the closest connection with both, and I can see no way in which a child can work in this close connection except in this way. There are three fundamental principles of education as we know it to-day—namely, the conditions of health, social efficiency—that is the first consideration and almost includes the other—and intellectual efficiency. These three things must be considered. I think our syllabus allows scope for a good deal of training in these three departments, but I cannot help feeling that the teacher's work in this direction is almost wholly measured by the examination that finishes th•; school course. The teachers say they cannot take account of these other things because they have not the time. The teacher feels that the examination at the close of the school has nothing to do with the health of the pupils; has nothing to do with the social efficiency of the pupils; takes nothing into consideration but the mental ability of the pupils. Now, if the children's mental ability is made the sole criterion of success in school, then the teachers must give that direction to their work whatever syllabus they have. lam not going to condemn examinations per se; they* have their right place, but I am showing their influence on the education of girls in our school. The only special work girls have is sewing, and that part of the syllabus is arranged with less reference to the educational ideals of the present day than any other part. The girls do some work in cooking and laundry, but it is dissociated with school life. They have to go away for it, and they have a different teacher, and it is set apart in their minds. The girls are very interested in cooking. The reason girls like cooking and sewing is that they have a chance for once to do something. That is the side of education that is neglected. I think that everywhere but in New Zealand an attempt has been made to give this training in schools. While it is so necessary- in the primary schools I think it should be taken up also in the secondary schools. The secondary schools are in more danger of becoming places where girls are given a store of information and crammed than in the primary- schools, and therefore it is more important that this side of the girl's education should be attended to. In thinking how this subject could be dealt with I started with the kindergartens. In the kindergarten the connection with the home is very strong. The children are taught to do little home duties, and if that attitude of sympathy with the home could' be kept up through the schools it would mean a great deal of difference in the efficiency of the girls. In the lower classes, such as Standards I, 11, and 111, sewing is taught; still, there is not sufficient connection with the home life. I think that is a flaw in our system altogether. Kindergarten children attend to the cleanliness and orderliness of the room. They lay the table for lunch and they clear it up afterwards. They talk about the farmer and the autumn, and then they visit the mill, and in this way things are related to each other in the right way. They care for the dolls and the dolls' house and the dolls' bed, and they are actually allowed to do a little cooking. Then when the children leave the kindergarten they go into quite a different atmosphere. All these things are disconnected, and form no part in the school life. I think whatever work is undertaken in this respect should be undertaken by the class teacher. It should not be considered something quite outside the other lessons. There would be a room needed. That certainly would be a great help to children, because they would work better when they went back to their desks if they had a little more freedom when dealing with these special subjects. lam not an advocate for women being in very public positions, but I must say after what has been done in the past it seems almost as if women were needed to assist in organizing the schools, seeing that the girls', education has been so absolutely neglected in this respect. I have not said much about the sewing syllabus. Sewing should be done in connection with this domestic work : it should not be taught as a sort of manual work. I may say that in many places the work is done in the school by the class teacher, and of course in many places, such as London, it is done in a separate class under separate teachers, but in many schools in America and even in England I saw very good work done in this direction. I hope something will be done to put girls in our schools on a better footing in this matter. 4. Mr. Pirani.] You did not say at what age you would take the children in the kindergarten ? —Under five years —three and four years of age. 5. And you would keep them how- long?— Until they are five, to go into the primary school. 6. Do you know of any obstacle now in the way of an Education Board establishing kindergarten schools in connection with their other schools? —We have one in connection with the normal schools at the four centres. 7. Are you aware whether there is any kindergarten here subsidized by the Government?— Yes. 8. Then, considering the Government subsidizes free kindergartens outside the primary schools, can you see any obstacle in the way of the Government subsidizing them in connection with the Government schools ?—I think it would be a very simple matter to adjust the latter so that it could be done, and I think it would be a great advantage to both. 9. Mr. Kirk.] You are aware that there are schools privately conducted for girls alone? —Yes. 10. Have you had any opportunity of judging the result of the finished education at such schools with the result of the finished education at the mixed public schools?— Only by general experience; I have not compared the girls individually.
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11. Which gives the better result so far as correlation between school duties and life duties is concerned? —I am positively of opinion that the mixed school for young children is better. — 12. Does that not seem to imply that the teaching of boys and girls together has very little wrong with it? —No, Ido not think'so. I think boys can learn a great deal of this work I have been suggesting as well as girls, and I think it will do them a great deal of good. There is the same fault in-connection with boys' education —I would say there was too little initiative. 13. Dealing with the open-air schools in big cities, do you think a fair comparison can be made with such schools so far as a small Dominion like ours is concerned? —Directly we have the number of children, I think so. We have the same class of children. I think we only need one school in each centre for these children. 14. Have we even sufficient for that yet? —I think so. 15. Have you any statistics to bear you out? —Only that 1 know that I have made inquiries, and in every farge school there are several teachers who have given me lists of the children in their school. I may say this was suggested by a teacher in a large school in Auckland to go south as a remit. 16. You know there are schools for the normal children and schools for the mentally deficient; but you think there is a sufficient number between these classes for whom separate schools should be established? —Yes. 17. You think there is a sufficient number of backward children to justify the establishment of separate schools in each of the four large centres? —Yes. 18. However idealistic our feelings may be, I suppose you will admit that we cannot give expression to them at once, but must go along slowly and in accordance with our means? —Yes. 19. Mr. Thomson.] On what do you base your opinion?—l say there are sufficient in the Dominion to have schools in the four centres on the witness of teachers who have these children in their schools. 20. Can you get vary teachers to give definite evidence on this matter? —Yes. 21. In legard to kindergartens, do you think they could be established in the country districts, or are you speaking of them only in connection with cities? —I think at first they would only be established in the cities, and in the districts where the people live in crowded places, and where mothers have not the time and do not look after their children properly. 22. I suppose the objection to country kindergartens would be the travelling by such youngchildren over long distances? —Yes. 23. I suppose it would be a very good thing for country children, owing to their isolated conditions, if they had these kindergartens? —That is right. Country children are barred from all social intercourse. 24. Mr. Davidson.] I understand that you are in favour of the establishment of kindergartens in connection with the primary schools in New Zealand? —Yes. 25. Have you considered the cost of such a reform?— Yes. I think, so far as trainingteachers is concerned, we have the training colleges established now-. Then there would have to be a supervisor or head teacher for the city. Then I think the students who had been trained could take separate kindergartens under her supervision. I would hardly like to make an estimate of their salaries, but as kindergarten teachers get less than £100, then I think £100 would cover that. 26. How many pupils would you allow to each teacher? —Not more than thirty. 27. And you think that each teacher should have at least £100 a year? —No, I said less than £100. 28. Well, just now the women teachers of New Zealand are crying out for higher salaries, and you surely would not ask any teacher who had spent years of training to teach for less than £100 a year? —I will take £100 a year, and I will say thirty children to each teacher. 29. At the very lowest estimate, then —at thirty children for each teacher and £90 a year for each teacher —that would mean £3 per child ? —Yes. 30. You said you would have them enter the school at three years of age : have you considered the number of children in New Zealand between three and five years of age? —Yes; I tried to reckon up the cost a little bit. I know it means a great deal, but I think it has compensations, and I think it would curtail a great deal of the money spent afterwards in reforming children, and so on. 31. Do you think that the people of the Dominion would stand this extra expense which I have reckoned to come to between £120,000 and £150,000 a j-ear, and particularly in view of the fact that you said in reply to a Commissioner that this extra money would be spent mainly in the four cities? —I do not think they would, because they do not realize at present what it means; but I think they would if they knew. 32. Would you confine this good work just to the four centres? —It is like this : I know things have to be begun; you cannot do them straight off. One thing I said was that I would advocate the establishment of kindergartens because of their influence. I think it would be well for the Department to have them in connection with their system of education. There will be kindergartens whatever we do, and I think they are worth having, whatever they cost. 33. If you cannot get these'real kindergartens introduced in connection with the whole of our education system, would you not introduce kindergarten methods into the teaching of all the subjects at present taught in our schools as a beginning?— That is my object. It seems to me that unless people try to understand the kindergarten itself, they do not realize the spirit of the principles of the kindergarten; but if they once are interested in the kindergarten, it is wonderful how quickly its influence makes itself felt. An instance came to my knowledge in Auckland just recently. Some Sunday schools started a kindergarten, and it has resulted in very many of the Sunday-school teachers in Auckland taking a greater interest in teaching on right lines. That is proof of the influence of the kindergarten.
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34. You spoke of Victoria, and what is being done there : how many training colleges are there in Victoria? —I know-- of only one in Melbourne. 35. How many students at the training college in Auckland? —100. 36. And there is an equal number in each of the other three in New Zealand? —Yes. 37 r So we have 400 students in training in New Zealand? —Yes. 38. How many do you think are being trained in the whole of Victoria? —I do not know, but I know a good many more kindergarten students are being trained. That is the part I take the greatest interest in. 39. You said just now that kindergarten teaching was being given at the training college here ?—Yes. 40. It is also being given at the training college at Dunedin? —Yes. 41. And I suppose these schools are attached to the training colleges in the two other centres? -Yes. 42. Then, there must be a great many more students receiving kindergarten instruction in New Zealand than in Victoria? —All the better for New Zealand. 43. Mr. Hogben.] Looking forward some years, are you aware how many teachers would be required, supposing we make kindergarten instruction universal in our schools?—We would need a great many; of course, looking forward a great number of years. I think probably if kindergarten principles and home training became what they should, kindergartens would not be so much needed. lam looking at the kindergarten as an influence. Perhaps what you establish now- would be sufficient for later on. 44. With regard to domestic science, have j-ou seen the new regulations for elementary home science in connection with the Junior Civil Service Examinations? —I have not. 45. 27(e Chairman.] I presume you know, as one who has travelled and read, that no progressive educational country in the world, not even Japan, has failed to recognize the value of the kindergarten as an initial step in the system of State education : do you not think the time lias arrived when New Zealand should make that departure?—l do. 46. Will you be surprised to know that it is twenty-eight years since an Education Committee in New Zealand considered this question with a view to its adoption, and that nothing has been done? —I had not heard of that. 47. Is it not a fact, too, that the kindergarten system is admitted on all hands to be the best system known to-day of teaching the young how to use the hand and eye industrially? —Yes. 48. Such being the case, is it a correct or incorrect thing to say that the kindergarten system is the true basis of industrial education? —I think that is quite true. 49. Agreeing in that statement, you think the time has arrived when the kindergarten should form part of the educational system of this Dominion ?—Yes. 50. Can you give us any idea of the number of children who would be likely to enter classes in the four centres, assuming it were grafted on to the State system of education to-morrow, between the ages of three and six? —No, but the number would be very large, and the expense very great; but I think it would be worth it. 51. But would not the primary-schools expenditure be reduced proportionately- by taking into the kindergarten the children now admitted at five? —Yes, if the same expenditure were made to cover both things. 52. Would it surprise you to hear that the testimony of those best qualified to judge is that all children who go through a systematic course in a kindergarten are able to go through the standards of the primary schools much better and to better appreciate the education given there, and are in every way a better product, than the ordinary primary-school course produces?—l think that is quite true, from what I have seen of children myself that have been in kindergartens. They have been absolutely more fit to receive education in the school. 53. And I am safe in saying that the establishment of kindergarten courses in each of the training colleges presumes that the Education Department had some idea of establishing kindergartens as well as the training of kindergarteners? —It shows their appreciation of the kindergarten and its influence on the students. 54. You would indorse the statement that the primary-school system would be better for the incorporation of the kindergarten system right through the course?—A professor in one of the biggest Universities in America said-that no professor in a University could afford to be without a knowledge of the kindergarten. I quite agree with you that it is necessary in all work. Its influence would be very great. Francis Hamilton Brown examined on oath. (No. 7.) 1. The Chairman.] What are you?—l am first assistant in the Newton East School, and President of the Assistant Masters' Association. My qualification is CI. 2. Will you kindly state what you have to say on behalf of your organization?—l wish to emphasize the urgent necessity for more ample play-grounds. Cadet officers, of whom I am one, feel this necessity perhaps more than any other branch of the profession. We have to take the cadets into the road for physical drilling. We agree that the number of examinations at present in vogue is excessive and unnecessary. The principal question that I came to urge was the abolition of clauses (c) and (d) of the Second Schedule of the Act of 1908. Clause (c) says, "At least one of the first three assistants in any school shall be a woman," clause (d), "At least three of the first six assistants in a school must be women." We hold that all the positions should be thrown open in the Dominion —headmasterships, assistantships, or sole charges. We hold that this will be fairer to the whole body of teachers. If they are to be graded on the same list, and a lady is found to be the most efficient on that graded list as established
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by the Inspectors, then, if she applies, that lady, in our opinion, should get the position; but if a male is highest on the graded list, and consequently more efficient, he should get it. There sh««ld be none of this dispute as to whether a man or woman should get the position. It should simply- be a question of the greatest efficiency. This, we maintain, will tend to the greatest efficiency of-the school, inasmuch as the highest-grade teacher and the most efficient will get the position in each. case. The present system as laid down in this Act is, to a certain extent, a system of preference, and that, we hold, is not equitable. We hold that there should be equal pay for equal work, and that we must have equal advantages and equal opportunities for every branch of the profession. 3. Mr. Kirk.] Do you agree with the evidence of Miss Simpson?—To a very great extent. Parts of it I do not agree with, particularly that in reference to the want of sympathy shown by male teachers to the girls. 4. I mean, do you agree with the evidence of Miss Simpson on the main points?—So far as throwing open all the best positions, I do. Miss Simpson was not very strong on that point, and I am. 5. Then, you disagree with her? —Yes, so far as closing the appointment to any particular person. 6. Mr. Davidson.] I understand you to say you object to the ear-marking of any position in the service for either a man or woman?—l do. 7. Miss Simpson really- wished that certain positions should be ear-marked for women? —I understood her so. 8. The Chairman.] Do you not think that women have a constitutional method of stating their alleged grievances and wrongs?— Yes. 9. And that they will use it? —Yes.
Auckland, Thursday, 6th June, 1912. Harold James del Monte Mahon examined on oath. (No. 8.) 1. The Chairman.] What are your position and qualifications?—l am a B.A. of the NewZealand University, and chief English master at the Auckland Grammar School, and I appear here as representative of the assistant masters of the Auckland Grammar School. 2. On what subjects do you wish to speak?— The first point I wish to make is that the grant for secondary education is not sufficient for rational and efficient education, and f wish to maintain my position by means of a few statistics. Dr. Garnett, who is director of education for the London County Council, in an appendix to the report of the consultative committee on higher elementary schools in England, says that the minimum amount for efficient secondary education is £15 a year per pupil. In estimating such grants we should take into consideration the difference in the cost of living between New Zealand and England. I think that on a very reasonable basis the cost of living is at least 30 per cent, more here than in England, so if we take Dr. Garnett's basis the amount that should be granted for efficient and rational education in New Zealand is from £19 to £20 per pupil. In Prussia, which is not one of the best paid of the German States, the cost of secondary education per head is £16. The cost of living is very much cheaper in Prussia than in New Zealand. That would make at least £20 per head necessary in New Zealand. If we look at the cost of secondary education in New Zealand we find from the last report issued that the amount available per head was £1306 in 1909 and £1304 in £1910, but the amount spent per head in 1909 was £1124 and in 1910 £1152. The average salary in 1910 for male assistants was £1.95 9s. 9d.; for female assistants, £159 2s. Id.; and for all teachers in secondary schools, £176 14s. 2d. From the present statistics I infer that we must have one or two conditions — either that the schools are understaffed and the teachers overworked, or that where the schools are of reasonable size the teachers are underpaid. I think that point might be brought out by a comparison between the conditions prevailing in the Auckland Grammar School and those in the Wellington College. In 1910 the number of pupils in the Auckland Grammar School was 456 and the number of assistants was thirteen, and the average per assistant works out at £260. In Wellington the number of pupils is 345; there are eighteen assistants; and the average is only £215 per assistant. The consequence of this is that teachers, especially married men, have to seek other means of remuneration. I understand that in Wellington a large number of teachers are engaged in evening work at the Technical College, and in our schools some teachers who are getting £200 were coaching till this year. The headmaster saw that that was not in the best interests of the school, and he prevailed on the Board to increase their salaries, and made it a condition that they should take no outside work. This condition of things has a number of unfortunate results. The prospects are so limited in secondary schools that a large number of teachers merely use secondary education as a stepping-stone to some other profession. A number who are attracted by the fairly good salaries at the outset enter for a couple of years merely to gain some money to pay the expenses of equipping themselves for another profession. I can instance several cases. In our own school in recent years one teacher after a few years' experience abandoned secondary education to go in for medicine, another to go in for electrical engineering, and another for surveying and civil engineering, and another took a position on the Geological Survey. This state of things is unfair to the pupils. When these teachers enter they are, as a rule, inexperienced in teaching, and it is not likely when they intend to relinquish the work in a few years that they will take any rational or scientific interest in their work. The pupils must suffer accordingly. Again, the prospects are limited, and we find men who have done good work in the service abandoning it after twenty years for another profession that offers better remunera-
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tion. Notable cases are those of Mr, W. F. Ward, of Wellington College; Mr. Alpers, of Christchurch; and Mr. Macalister, of Invercargill; and there are many- others. As to the qualifications of a teacher in a secondary school, he must be a man of refinement and ability, a man capable of exercising a good influence on the pupils, he must put his w*hole soul into his work, and he must by reading keep himself up to date .in knowledge of educational methods. It seems to me that those qualifications ought to demand better remuneration. Professor Michael Sadler, one of the best-known English educationists, has recently asserted that the minimum salary of a secondaryschool teacher in his prime should be £300 a year. When we take the cost of living into consideration, that would mean £400 in New Zealand. I might bring out this point by referring to the better prospects of teachers in Germany, for example. There has recently been published by the Secondary School Teachers' Association in England a report giving an account of the conditions of employment in England and abroad. The report gives tables showing the prospects of teachers in the various German States. To take Prussia for example : The initial salary- is £135, and it rises by yearly increments until in his twenty-second year of service the assistant in a secondary school receives £360 per annum plus a rent-allowance varying from £60 to £28, thus making the total a least £388. If you take the cost of living into consideration it would mean that in New ZealaiuLwe should look forward to the prospect of at least £500 to be on an equal footing with them. In Hamburg the initial salary is £200, and it rises by regular increments to £450, the maximum being reached after twenty-one years' service. Not only is it better in the amount of actual remuneration, but the pension conditions are on a much more liberal scale. 1. will take the same States, but the conditions in most of the other States are very similar. In Prussia the maximum pension is 75 per cent., which is reached after forty years' service. The allowance to the widow is 40 per cent, of the salary. 3. Mr. Davidson.] Average salary or retiring salary?—lt does not say. Mr. Hogben: It means average salary. Witness: The alhnvance to orphans who have lost one parent is 20 per cent., together with the widow's allowance. In the case of orphans who have lost both parents, the allowance is 30 per cent, of the salary. But the allowance to widows and orphans together must not exceed what would be the father's pension. I think that when we take those facts into consideration it is clear that the status of the New Zealand secondary-school teacher is not nearly as good as that of the teacher in Germany. The next point I would like to emphasize is the size of the classes in the secondary school. In the German school —and the same conditions obtain in most of the English schools—the number of pupils in a class averages from twenty to twenty-five. The teachers in secondary schools work from eighteen to twenty-four hours a week. A master whose work is oral, and of a trying character, seldom works more than eighteen hours a week, and as the school is open for six days in the week he averages from three to three and one-third hours per day. Perhaps a better idea will be obtained from a specific example. In a school of 300 there will be twelve classes with an average of twenty-five to a class. Each class works about twelve hours a week. For the twelve classes there will be 360 hours of instruction. That was the principle explained to me of the staffing of a German school, and I have recent reports bearing out that statement. I noticed when I was in England in 1906 that in some of the higher elementary schools the staffing was on a liberal scale. In Hornsey School, one of the higher elementary schools, there were 278 pupils. The staff consisted of the headmaster and fourteen assistants, and each of the assistants taught from twenty to twenty-two hours a week. The next point I wish to dwell upon is the curriculum in secondary schools. It seems to me from my experience that there should be a differentiation in the syllabus—that, for example, all pupils should not be required to take Latin. My experience is that only the very best boys that come to the secondary schools profit by the study of Latin. It is not likely to be of much intellectual value or of much value from the point of view of culture unless the boy at the end of his career can read the Latin classics as he would read the English classics. The number of boys who can do that is comparatively small. It seems to me that, in the case of the pupils who come merely on a certificate of proficiency, the time would be better spent in teaching only one modern language —say, French —and that the time devoted to Latin should be devoted to gaining a higher standard of proficiency in the mother-tongue and to manual work taught on a rational basis so as to co-ordinate it in a great measure with the other subjects in the school. When I was at Hornsey I was impressed" by the way in which manual work was taught. It was explained to me by' Mr. J. C. Hudson, a man of great culture and great enthusiasm for his work. He maintained in conversation with me that only such work should be undertaken in wood and metal as would develop the originality and appeal to the emotions of the pupils, and at the same time co-ordinate with the other subjects in the work of the school. He made it clear to me that at the earlier stages the children were encouraged to modify their own designs. He showed a number of designs of knife and blouse boards that had been modified by the pupils. They had made models to illustrate the way in which the school was ventilated, and others to illustrate the history of locomotion. Another set of models dealt with cave, tent, and lake dwellings; and a model of the Pantheon at Rome gave the pupils a conception of the forms of architecture. In this way woodwork and metal work can be co-ordinated with history and drawing and science. They may be made a real medium of culture, and have more than the benefits claimed for them as second-school subjects by Professor William James, who says, " Labora-tory-work and shop-work engender a habit of observation and a knowledge of the difference between accuracy and vagueness and an insight into nature's complexity and into the inadequacy of all abstract verbal accounts of real phenomena, which, once brought into the mind, remain there as lifelong possessions. They give honesty, for when you express yourself by making things and not by using words it becomes impossible to dissimulate your vagueness or ignorance hy ambiguity. They beget a habit of self-reliance; they keep the interest and attention always cheerfully engaged, and reduce the teacher's disciplinary functions to a minimum." If for a very large number such
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a programme were insisted upon in our secondary schools we should be sending into the world youths with a broader and more liberal education, with better aptitudes for both mental and manual work, and with higher ideals than those of mere getting and spending. With regard to the manual work in secondary schools, Mr. Heaton, the science master at the Grammar School, maintains that any system of science that is worthy of the name must bo accompanied by some course of manual work, including glass-blowing, but thinks that at the present time the teaching of science is hampered by the short time which is given to it. He says in reference to this, speaking of his experience of the Wyggestin School, one of the best of the modern secondary schools in England, " The boys enter at the age of thirteen, and at the end of three years complete a course that extends over five years in New Zealand. The last two years are devoted to speciiil work, and at the end of his five-years course he could pass the M.A. examination of the New Zealand University in science, and gain first-class honours. I attribute the higher standard of work in a school like Wyggestin to the fact that the classes are small. The conditions are very different in New Zealand, and the teachers cannot be expected to work miracles." With regard to the courses in secondary schools, the report of the consultative committee of the English Board of Education upon higher elementary schools said, " ' The committee considered that the years spent at the secondary school furnish the only opportunity that a pupil may have to. acquire a broad and humanizing training. The diversity of occupations that the pupils take up after leaving the school is so great that in most cases it is difficult to say what would be useful; and it is undesirable to sacrifice any part of their general education for the sake of a subject that would be of very little real use to them.' The evidence, on the whole, was decidedly against imparting any particular knowledge or dexterity that might be learnt, and would naturally be learnt, during the period of apprenticeship. An engineering witness said, 'I do not advocate including in the school curriculum any of those things which a boy will afterwards have a better opportunity of learning in his handicraft or employment.' The representative of the Scotch Department said, 'I should say that to attempt to introduce anything definitely technical into a day-school is somewhat hazardous. Technical instruction comes better after a pupil has taken up some line of life and knows what he wants.' Another witness summed up thus the case against book-keeping as a school subject: 'It is quite absurd to try to teach from a text-book —perhaps by the agency of a man who has never been inside an office —the details of the procedure of a large office with which the boy is quite unacquainted, which are absolutely unreal to him, and which will lead to the most mechanical form of work; and probably when you have finished you will have taught him a system of book-keeping which he will have to unlearn in the first office he goes into.' Another witness said, ' What I feel strongly is that in the attempt to introduce these subjects into the curriculum we are sacrificing the development of a more important thing—the habits of mind which will be important in commerce.' My own experience agrees with the report of the committee on the question of including shorthand in the school curriculum. There is not time enough to teach it efficiently. It has little or no educational value, while the majority of those who take it up never make any further use of it. The report was equally decisive against the inclusion of typewriting : ' Even in the case of women we should be opposed to it, not only on general grounds, but because we understand that employers require in typists a much higher standard of general education than can be expected from girls who leave school at the age of fifteen; nor should we desire to see encouraged the tendency to increase the number of poorly-paid women clerks when preferable careers are open to women' in other professions.' " I may mention that the experience of German educationalists agrees with this report, but in Germany there is an intermediate secondary school called " realschule." In these schools all the subjects are such as are taught in a secondary school, great importance, however, being given to mathematics, science, the mothertongue, and modern languages. Classical languages are rigidly excluded. •In those schools there is nothing whatever of a technical nature, and a three-years course at these schools is insisted upon in most cases before a youth can enter an engineering school, a marine school, or a school of commerce. The opinions of these educationists is that the best preparation for life is a broad general education, where application and habits of thought are cultivated. At the present time there are two other defects in our secondary system —first, that the examination system is overdone; and secondly, the fact that a number of youths come to school and merely put in one year, leaving without doing any good at the school to themselves or any one else. Many others keep one eye on the exaniination, and put in the minimum amount of time and work needed for their examination. Whether the subject will be of any benefit does not concern them. Mr. Heaton informed me that he lately reproved a boy in one of his classes for the small amount of progress he was making. The boy came to him afterwards, and asked permission to give up heat and read mechanics alone, because he was going to be an engineer, and heat did not come into his examination. Wo want in our education to see that boys are taught to value knowledge for its own sake; otherwise the education grants are being largely wasted. The remedy lies in increasing the grant in order that we may have smaller classes. Then the teaching will be more rational, and the influence of the teacher upon his pupils much more marked. A second reform is in the direction of fewer examinations. It has been already urged by the Inspector-General that a satisfactory four-years course at a secondary school should be considered a qualification for entrance to the University. Personally, I maintain that that is an ideal method; but in NewZealand there are practical difficulties in the way. In Germany, where education is well organized and the teachers take a scientific interest in their work, there are absolutely no examinations in girls' secondary schools. In boys' secondary schools there are two examinations during the year, but they are of a very minor character —not nearly so exhaustive as in our secondary schools, but merely examinations to test the progress of the pupils; and then there is the final leaving examination, which is the qualification for admission to the University, and which is conducted almost entirely by the teachers responsible for the subject and the headmaster, an official of the Educa-
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tion Department being sometimes present to see that everything is satisfactory. The high conception that German teachers have of their work is such that they are practically given a free hand, and they allow none to go forth to the University who are not in every way efficient and qualified to do good work there. If such a system could be introduced in New Zealand it would be the ideal system. Personally, 1 should fail a number of pupils who now pass matriculation. But the difficulty is that all our secondary- schools have not the same standard. It has been suggested that in the smaller districts pressure might be brought to bear upon the teachers. Of course, the tea,chers would need a lot of backbone to resist the influence of parents in a country where the people are not so highly disciplined as in some of the European countries. This, for the time being, at all events, would prove an obstacle to the introduction of what seems to me the ideal method. Another point upon which I should like to speak relates to scholarships. I notice that in a recent interview Mr. Mulgan, Chief Inspector of Schools in Auckland, stated that in some cases scholarships are held at a district high school, and that if a pupil living within reasonable distance of the district high school wishes to go to a larger town to hold his scholarship no boardingallowance will be granted. Personally, I think that that is a great mistake. The education a boy receives at a secondary- school does not consist merely of the information acquired to enable him to pass examinations. A most valuable part of his education there is association with other boys, ft comes from the school life —the taking part in sports and debates, and what may be called in general terms the life of the school. If that rule is insisted upon a very great injustice is done to a number of country boys. To take merely the case of my own school—l may point out that a boy from a remote country district, K. Sisam, who came from Whakatane, and another, Marshall, from Warkworth, passed through the school and gained Rhodes Scholarships. I think that is a good argument for allowing boys to come to a good school, where there is a sound and healthy school life. Another point that needs reform in connection with secondary-school work relates to the training of the teachers. A very 7 large number of the teachers come to us fresh from the University, and they are put in authority over fairly large classes. Ido not think that that is in the interests of either the teachers or the pupils. I have also been asked to emphasize the matter of superannuation. The secondary-school teachers agree with the primary-school teachers in asking that in estimating superannuation any three years of the teacher's service should be taken into consideration, and not merely the last three years. I admit that in most cases a teacher will be receiving his best salary in the last years of his career, but there are exceptional cases where a teacher, through ill health, is compelled to take a lesser position. In such cases it is unfair that his retiring-allowance should be estimated merely upon the unfortunate last years. I think, too, that in the case of secondary teachers they should be allowed to retire after thirty-five years' service. They begin their career later than the primary-school teachers. Very few start before they are twenty-two or twenty-three years of age, and if they have to wait for forty years for superannuation I am afraid that very few years would be left to them to enjoy it. Another matter that has occurred to me relates to district high schools. Looking through the list, I notice that, for example, there is' a district high school at Paeroa, another at Te Aroha, another at Waihi, and a high school at the Thames. At the Paeroa School there are forty-one pupils, at Te Aroha nineteen, at Waihi thirty-six. The cost of educating at those schools ninety-six pupils is £906 10s. At the high school at the Thames there are seventy-five pupils, the cost being £1,822 IBs. lOd. The total cost of the 171 pupils at the four schools is £2,729 Bs. lOd. There would be a great gain in efficiency- if a central school could be established for such a district. Paeroa is the centre of the district, within easy railway-communication of Waihi, Te Aroha, and Thames; and it seems to me there would be a much better classification, and consequently increased efficiency, if there were one central secondary school instead of those four institutions. With regard to private schools, it seems to me that it is the duty of the State to see that efficient education by skilled teachers is given in all schools, whether Government or private. With that end in view I think that all private schools, whether primary or secondary 7 , should be under Government inspection. In order to bring that about, I think some scheme of registration of teachers should be instituted in New Zealand. There is such a scheme in Victoria, for instance; no teacher is allowed to teach in any private school there unless he is on the teachers list, and has such qualifications as the State thinks essential for successful work. These are the main points that I wish to bring before the Commission. 4. Mr. Pirani.] How would you narrow the examination so as to ensure that, it would not be overdone? —In the first place, I would have only two examinations a year in a secondary school. Examination entails upon- the -master a considerable amount of work. He has first to think out his papery and get it printed. Then there is the arduous work of examining and estimating the work of the pupils, and there are the various returns in connection with the schools. I think two examinations a year would be sufficient, instead of one at the end of each term. Some pupils undergo perhaps five or. six examinations in their last year —-the three term examinations, and perhaps the Civil Service Examination, and the Matriculation Examination. That is in the higher classes. In the middle forms there w-ill be the term examinations and the Senior Free Place and Scholarship Examinations. I think some effort should be made by co-operation between the Education Department and the University Senate to have one representative examination for secondary schools to serve for Senior Free Place, Junior Civil Service, and Matriculation Examinations. ■ ■- 5. Is'it .not your custom, where pupils are going up for other examinations at the end of the year, to omit the school examinations?: —No. 6-.- Do.you not think it.would be advisable to do so?— No. There are prizes offered, for which the pupils,would not forego their chances.
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7. Would it not be desirable to have all the secondary schools in a district placed under one control —say, the Education Board or some other authority to take the place of the Board ?—I think it might tend to greater efficiency. 8. Mr. Wells.] What is the size of the classes at the Grammar School? —The first-year classes vary from forty to forty-five; the second-year classes are in some cases over forty; and this year •the third-year class, the matriculation class, began with forty, and has fallen to thirty-five during the year. The B class in the fifth form is about the same size. The C class is somewhat smaller. The lower sixth numbers about twenty-seven, and the upper sixth about sixteen. 9. Then, except in the very- highest classes, the numbers are practically double what they are in the best German and English secondary schools ?—Yes. 10. Has attention ever been called to this fact?—l think the Inspector-General of Schools has reported upon it on two occasions lately. The Board has made some provision for increases of staff, but there has been such a large accession of new pupils that we have not benefited much. I do not know what will happen next year unless we get a new school-building. 11. Have you not been a primary-school teacher? —Yes, for two years. 12. What is your opinion as to the benefit of training in a primary school for a secondaryschool teacher? —Personally, I attach very great value to it. I think I derived a great deal of benefit from it. 13. If all the schools in a district —primary, secondary, and technical —were under one authority, w r ould it not provide the secondary schools with better-trained teachers, and at the same time give a far better outlook in the way of promotion ?—I think it would. At present one of the disadvantages of secondary work is that the outlook is so very limited. Positions worth more than £300 a year are very few indeed; and, moreover, secondary teachers are practically debarred from all appointments outside secondary work. They have little chance of becoming Inspectors. I think the secondary teachers would welcome any chance of becoming headmasters of primaryschools. 14. Would not the accrediting system have a stimulating effect, in this way : that presumably only schools in a thoroughly good condition should be allowed to accredit? —I think that should be made a condition. I think it would have a stimulating effect if the pupils knew that the masters would only allow those to go forward who did really honest work throughout their career. 15. Suppose it were understood that the privilege of accrediting would be withdrawn if unsatisfactory pupils were sent on ?—I think that would have a good effect. 16. Do you see any objection to the accrediting system in the primary schools for free places— from good schools? —I see none. There is a great difference in the quality of the pupils that come to us at the beginning of the year. As a rule, those who have passed the Junior National Scholarships Examination are much superior to those who have merely gained the proficiency certificate. Great discretion would be required from the teachers to see that only those truly qualified should come up. I may mention that some time ago I noticed in one of the journals a report on the Northumberland system of scholarships. The headmasters of the schools were asked to send in the names of the pupils they thought qualified for admission to the secondary schools. All those who were put on the list were given a written examination on the essential subjects, and then a viva voce examination. If that could be managed, it is an ideal way of making the selection. We have then the opinion of the headmasters, we have the written examination, and —much more important —we have the viva voce examination. 17. Do you find that there are many free-place pupils who are not likely to be worth their places?— Not a large percentage. 18. Is there not a fair percentage who would have done better work at a technical school? —A small percentage. 19. Would there be any advantage in having a consultation with the headmaster as to which course they should take up ?—I do not think many boys know what career they are going in for when first they come to a secondary school. 20. Would it not be worth while to have a consultation between the parents and the teacher as to whether pupils should go to the Technical School or the Grammar School? —I think that the day course at the Technical School coincides to a large extent with ours. A modification of the curriculum would overcome that difficulty. 21. Are you aware of any overlapping between the Technical School and the Grammar School? —I think that in a number of classes the work is very much the same, except that they go in for definite commercial work at the Technical 'School. As far as I know, there is no great amount of overlapping, but I think that the teaching either at the Technical School or a secondary school of shorthand and typewriting is a great mistake. I think it should come only in the third year, when the pupils have a broad foundation to go upon. Business men have complained to me that a large number of the typists they employ cannot spell properly. That is because they are not taught properly before they specialize. 22. Is any instruction as to the duties of citizenship given at your school? —Personally I try to bring that out in my teaching of literature. Moreover, in the higher classes we have debates, and I choose subjects that are likely to stimulate the interest of the students on public questions. The boys take great interest in these matters, and I am very well pleased with the progress they make. There is no definite course in civics, but it is taught indirectly. 23. The Chairman.] Do you think it would be better to have definite teaching in civics?— Certainly, the boys should know something about the questions that are exercising the public mind, and their duties as citizens. It should form part of every scheme of education. 24. Mr. Kirk.] How can the training of teachers for secondary schools be best assured?—ln Germany teachers who are going in for secondary teaching have to undergo what are called two probationary years. They are appointed as probationers for two years, and during that time
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they take some part in the teaching. They give model lessons, under the supervision of the headmaster. They have to study the science of education, and at the end of two years to pass an examination, both practical and theoretical, before they are definitely accredited as teachers in secondary schools. I think some such method ought to be introduced in New Zealand. 25. Do you think it would be sufficient to make it a condition precedent that the teachers should have a certificate, or qualify through a training college?— That would be an improvement. 26. Would it be sufficient? —Provided the academic qualifications were satisfactory. 27. Is that as far as you would go? —Personally, I think it would be very much better if we had a system somewhat similar to that of the two years' jirobation that obtains in Germany. I admit that it would be difficult here, because teachers of twenty-two or twenty-three years of age would not like to be put under probation for two years unless higher inducements were held out. 28. When you spoke of the Prussian system, especially with regard to the cost, from what authority were you quoting? —From an article in the School World. 29. In view of the fact that some pupils whom the headmasters do not consider fit for free places nevertheless sit for and pass the examinations for Junior Scholarships, is there any danger of such pupils, being prejudiced under an accrediting system?—ln the case of a properly introduced accrediting system the examinations should be abolished. At present we have the accrediting system to some extent. At our school numbers of pupils are accredited for senior free places. Those who are not accredited may go up for examination, and they generally pass. 30. Assuming that there were no examination, and that the accrediting system alone were in vogue, is there any danger of really bright pupils being prejudiced?—l do not think so. If the classes were of reasonable size there would be absolutely no danger of that. 31. Mr. Poland.] How do the scholarship and free-place holders of to-day compare with the boys who attended the Grammar School, say, ten or fifteen years ago? —I do not think their attainments in general subjects are very much higher. I think that is the general opinion of our staff. In fact, some of them think that in recent years there has been a falling-off in the qualifications. Mr. Heaton is under the impression that the classes in the primary schools are too large for individual attention. There are too many subjects, and insufficient stress is laid upon the essentials of education. 32. Is it your experience that the essentials of education, as taught in the primary schools, are equal to what they have been in the past?— The general impression of our staff is that there has been a falling-off in recent years. 33. The Chairman.] Would you be prepared to indorse Mr. Heaton's estimate?— Yes. 34. Mr. Poland.] As the teacher of English, what have you to say as to the equipment of the scholars who come from the primary schools? —The great fault I find with them is that they cannot state a simple thing in a simple way. There is too much straining after effect in the composition. In their first two terms I have a difficult task in making the boys express themselves simply. That is the case with the best of the boys, and it is more pronounced in the lower classes. 35. Do you think that doing away with the teaching of formal grammar in the primary schools is in any- way responsible for the falling-off in the quality of the English?—l do not think very much formal grammar should be taught in the primary schools. The only formal grammar that should be taught is what is essential to the writing of correct English. In the old days too much formal grammar was taught. I think English grammar can be best illustrated from an inflected language like Latin. 36. Is there any difficulty in obtaining qualified teachers for the Auckland Grammar School at the present time under the salaries and conditions offered ?—There are not as many applications as there used to be, and, as I have already pointed out, a very large number of those who enter the service leave it after a few years for other careers. 37. You think much better work could be done if the staff were strengthened and the general outlook were improved ?—Certainly. 38. The Chairman.] And if the pupils came to you from the primary schools better grounded than they are now? —That is the general opinion of the staff —that the essentials are not taught as well as they used to be. The science master, for example, says that in his department the onlypreliminaries required are arithmetic and composition, and he complains bitterly of the weakness of the scholars in arithmetic. 39. And you personally find fault with the weakness of their composition?— Yes. 40. Mr. Davidson.] You say you think considerable waste of money takes place in admitting children into our secondary schools who will remain for only one year?— Yes. I think there ought to be an undertaking on the part of the parents that their children shall remain for at least two years. 41. There would be a considerable saving to the State if those who would not remain for at least two years were excluded? —Yes. 42. Do you think an average of twenty-five pupils in a class too many for a single teacher?— No. I think that is about what it should be. In the lower forms one could teach advantageously something over thirty, and not more than thirty in the middle forms; but in the matriculation classes we certainly- should not have more than twenty-five, nor in the highest class more than fifteen to twenty. 43. Does not the State really provide for an average of thirty-—£375 per class?— That is for the lower classes. 44. I notice in the departmental report that the average per class in 1910 was 209 for the whole of New Zealand. If that is so, what means would you suggest for reducing the number in the large classes?-—What is necessary- is to increase the grant sufficiently to pay decent salaries to the teachers, and to have classes of reasonable size. Otherwise you cannot have efficient education ..with big classes. I think I, made it clear that we cannot hope to have secondary education such as obtains in Germany on £12 10s. a head. The £12 10s. is spent not merely on the staff, but also in the maintenance of buildings and making provision for extra buildings.
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45. Would you favour local rating for the purpose of providing to some extent for the building and upkeep of the schools?—lt prevails in other countries —in England and Germany, There is arthreefold source of revenue —the pupils pay fees, the Municipality exacts a school-rate, and the State makes a grant. 46. Do you think it would tend to increase the efficiency of the system if local rating were brought into operation ?—lt depends entirely upon the amount of the rating. 47. Would it not increase the interest taken in secondary- education by the people themselves it they had to provide for it directly? —It does in other countries, and it should here. 48. And are you in favour of subsidizing the amounts raised locally?—I think that ultimately it must come to that in New Zealand. That is my personal opinion, but I have not gone into the matter from the statistical point of view. 49. The Chairman.] Have you done so from the economic point of view? —I cannot say I have. I know that the general feeling is against local rating. 50. Mr. Davidson.] Do you think that is because it is not thoroughly understood? —I think it would have to be made clear, if there is to be local rating, that the ratepayers will have a quid pro quo in the reduction of general taxation. I think they will have to understand that. 51. Do y 7 ou favour the co-ordination of the primary and secondary systems —that is to say, placing them under one local body?— Provided that the secondary teachers would have a much wider outlook than they have now —that they 7 would be eligible for inspectorships, for headmasterships of primary schools, positions in the training colleges, and higher positions generally. 52. Do you not think that that result would follow? —It should follow. The system should be one organic whole, if possible. 53. Would not that also lead to the primary 7 and secondary teachers being brought more into touch with one another ?—Yes. I think that one of the unfortunate drawbacks at present is the want of that touch. 54. At present the Superannuation Act provides annuities for both primary and secondary school teachers? —Yes. 55. Is it not probable that the primary and secondary teachers of New Zealand would form one association, such as the New Zealand Educational Institute, if the co-ordination were brought about ?—That would lie the natural result, I think. 56. Mr. Hogben] In speaking of the cost of secondary education in England and Germany, did you not take Dr. Garnett's figures? —Yes. 57. Do they not include interest on the money borrowed for buildings?—i could not say. The figures are given in the appendix to the report 1 have quoted from. 58. Is that included in your £15?— There is another heading, " Cost of Maintenance." It is not clear from the report. 59. Did you take the New Zealand figures from Table X, in Parliamentary Paper E.-6, 1911, net income from endowments and cost per head, page 17? —The figures I gave were the amounts spent in 1910. 60. Do those figures include the cost of buildings?—l do not know 7 that that is clear from the report. 61. What is the heading of the table? —I understand that the figures I gave were the expenditure on salaries and maintenance. 62. The Ghairmani] Would you dispute Mr. Hogben's suggestion that they do not include buildings? —The figures I gave provide merely for the payment of teachers and office expenditure. 63. Mr. Hogben.] Do you know the definition of "net annual endowment"?—l do not. I find it very difficult to get a clear idea from the returns, owing to the extent to which technicalities are used. 64. Do you know that in Prussia the figures include building, and the interest on the loans for buildings? —No. 65. When you give Professor Sadler's opinion as to the average salary you quote from his Essex report, I believe. You say that the salary should' be £300 ?—His statement is that the minimum salary of a secondary-school teacher in his prime should be £300. 66. Do you remember what he says is the actual salary? —I know it is very much less. 67. Is it as good as that in New Zealand? —Taking the actual money payment, I do not think there is very much difference. Taking the cost of living, I think there has been an improvement in recent years. 68. Have you any figures to show what the salaries are? —No. 69. You say that in Germany there is an average of from twenty to twenty-five pupils per teacher ?—Yes. 70. What secondary schools have you taken? —I willgive you several secondary schools. 71. Are you counting every teacher as teaching the whole time? —I am taking full-time teachers only. 72. Is there one teacher to twenty pupils? —Yes. 73. Dividing the number of pupils by the number of full-time teachers? —Yes. 74. Is that a fair way? Would it not be fairer to take the number of teachers available at one time, and divide by them? —I do not think so. Here is the case of the Realgymnasium at Weimar. 75. Is not the average time of that school thirty-two hours per week?— Yes. 76. What is the average time for which the teachers teach?— One teacher, the director, eleven to twelve hours a week; the teachers of classics, twenty hours per w 7 eek; class teachers, twenty, twenty-one, twenty-two, twenty-two, twenty-three, twenty-one, twenty-two, twenty-three, twentythree, twenty-one; the drawing teacher, twenty-four; the gymnastics teacher, twenty-four.. ~ 77. If you take most of those teachers it would be fair to say that they teach twenty-one hours out of thirty-two a week, or about two-thirds of the school time i*— *Yes.
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78. What is the average number of teachers available at any one time? —It would work out at about ten 79. What is the average number in a class if there are 300 scholars and ten teachers are available? —Of course, it would be thirty. 80. Do not most of the secondary teachers in New Zealand- teach the whole of their time? —Yes. The point I want to make is that the German schools have much larger staffs, and the individual teachers teach fewer hours per week. 81. Were you in the Musterschulen at Frankfort, or the Erste Realschule in Berlin? —No; they were in vacation when I was there. 82. Did you see classes in secondary- schools? —Yes, in several places. 83. Are all the secondary schools in Germany as well staffed as the Dresden one? —In some of the schools, where the classes got up towards forty, they were divided into two sections for certain subjects, and given to two teachers. 84. Is not the Wyggeston School a very highly endowed school?—I could not say. 85. Do you know how many realschulen there are in Germany compared with gymnasien?— They were tending to increase when I w-as in Germany—both the realschulen and the oberrealschulen. 86. Are they anything like as numerous as the gymnasien?—They were not when 1 was in Germany. 87. Take the leaving examination in Germany : is it not a fact that one of the officials of the Department is present?— Yes. 88. What would correspond to that official in New Zealand? —The Inspector of the Department. 89. Is it not a fact that in our intermediate examinations, at which senior free places are awarded, the teachers, the headmasters, and the officials of the Department co-operate in making the awards ? —Yes. 90. Is there any practical difficulty in that? —Absolutely none. 91. Do _you think there would be any more practical difficulty about giving a leaving certificate? —There should not be. 92. I want to ask you very definitely- about one point, because I shall probably suggest to the Commission that there should be further evidence about it: You say that in recent years there has been a falling-off in the general qualifications of the boys who come from the primaryschools. Your own experience refers more particularly to composition. Have you kept any models of the composition of twenty or thirty years ago?—l was teaching it for some years, and I have a pretty good idea what it was like. 93. You rather think the composition now is not as good as it used to be?— During the last three or four years I have noticed a falling-off. The chief fault is that the expression of thought is not simple enough. There is too much straining after effect. 94. But go back a little more than that. That is a fault of style. Take the question of matter, and the power of expressing thought, without reference to style?—l think the matter is very fair. It is chiefly the style I complain of. 95. Then, excepting for the style, is there a falling-off?—l think not. Of course, the style is the great essential in composition. 96. But is the style at the age of thirteen or fourteen a thing that cannot be corrected? —Of course, it can. I notice a great improvement after one term. 97. The Chairman.] You say that on account of this weakness in composition, when the children come to you from the primary school, you have to devote a considerable portion of your time to work that should have been done in the lower school? —I think that is a fault. 98. If they came to you properly prepared, would not a better opportunity be given them for specializing later? Is specialization retarded? Would it not be jeopardized under existing conditions? Assuming that shorthand-writing and typewriting are required in the secondary schools, you would not commence them till the third year. Can they take on that extra subject under present conditions? —I think if we devoted more time to the mother-tongue and mathematics, or to a modern language, during the first two years, we might reduce the hours on those subjects, and teach shorthand and typewriting in one year, giving at least an hour a day. 99. Would you go so far as to say that it is preferable to devote more time to secondary subjects than to shorthand and typewriting at all?— Yes. 100. Mr. Davidson.] Is it not a fact that you are getting a different class of pupil into the secondary- schools now from those who were entering a few years ago —that formerly you got only the cream of the primary school, in the shape of scholarship-winners, whereas now you get the free-place pupils, and many who have simply qualified by means of the proficiency certificate? Would not that account for the lowering of the standard of composition ?—lt might to some extent. 101. Would it not account for it to a considerable extent? —It might do so.
Henry William Cleart examined on oath. (No. 9.) 1. The Chairman.] Will you state your position, and the matter you desire to bring before the Commission? —I am Roman Catholic Bishop of the Diocese of Auckland, and a Doctor of Divinity. I am here to-day because I know that your Commission is willing to receive any criticism or suggestion that is likely to be helpful in improving our school system. I fully • recognize how generally- meritorious that system is in its methods of instruction, and how fortunate in its personnel. My criticism of it gets back to what, in common with many others, I regard as it fundamental defect. I think I may fairly be taken as representing in this connection the views of a large section of the people of this Dominion, and, among them, of many who
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[H. W. CLEARY.
are skilled in the principles and methods of education. But first I desire to point out two surface anomalies in the system, in so far as it affects non-State secondary schools: (1.) Maori children are allowed to take out scholarships in private secondary schools under Government inspection. This reasonable and proper right has not yet been generally extended to the children of white parents. (2.-) Section 67 (2) of the amended Education Act of 1908 reads, in regard to Board and Private Scholarships : " The holder of any such scholarship shall receive the amount of his scholarship only so long as he prosecutes his studies to the satisfaction of the Board at a secondary school, or its equivalent approved by the Board." I am advised that the "equivalent" school here referred to may be interpreted to mean any secondary school, public or private, of an educational standing approved for this purpose by the Board. I am, furthermore, informed that this subsection of the Act is, in practice, so interpreted in the case of two large private secondary schools in this Dominion—one at Wanganui, the other at Christchurch. Thus far we have been unable to secure the application of this interpretation, under any conditions, to any one of the many excellent secondary schools conducted by Catholics in New Zealand. However, if the term " equivalent " in this connection should be deemed to be ambiguous, or if it should not fairly bear the meaning alleged to be attached to it in two particular cases, I suggest that this and the corresponding sections of the Act should be so amended as to make scholarships available, as a matter of course and right, at all secondary schools that are open to Government inspection, and, educationally, up to the Government programme. This remark also applies, mutatis mutandis, to free places. The suggested amendment of the Act would bring New Zealand into line with New South Wales, Victoria, and Queensland, where both the Government schools and the private schools have mutually benefited by a healthy and generous competition. I now refer more particularly to primary schools. It is a sound principle of statecraft that taxes which are levied from all should, in some shape or other, be used for the benefit of all. In the matter of public instruction we in New Zealand do not follow that golden rule. Our Catholic schools and many other religious schools long formed a part of the State system. We did not withdraw from that system. We were excluded from it by Act of Parliament in 1877. To many of the legislators of the time that measure was a well-intentioned effort to secure what is an absolute impossibility in any system of education —namely neutrality in regard to religious faith. Now, I wish to direct the particular attention of the Commission to the most serious and radical defect in the public-school system. The religious schools were not alone excluded by Act of Parliament from their previous standing as public schools, but they were excluded on what is, in effect, a dogmatic religious test. This test is supplied by sundry views of religion—by sundry religious dogmas — which constitute the foundation of the secular phase of our Education Act. I will here mention only two of these underlying dogmas. The first is this : that religion has no necessary or useful place in school training. The second dogma is this : that a political majority has the moral right to exclude religion from the place which it has occupied from immemorial ages in education. Take away these dogmas and you sweep aside the foundation on which the secular phase of our Education Act is based. I will not take up the time of the Commission by pointing out certain other dogmatic views of religion which are also implied in our secular-school system. But we have here what is tantamount to a State creed —a creed of not many articles, but a creed which, within its limits, is as dogmatic as the agnostic creed or the Nicene creed or the Westminster Confession of Faith. Moreover, our Education Act has, in the schools, established these dogmatic views of religion, and endowed them at the common expense of all. It has extended no such privilege to the many who cannot in conscience accept these dogmas. In view of the compulsory clauses of the Act, and in the absence, over wide areas, of an alternative system, the only alternative for dissidents are the following : they must either do violence to their conscientious convictions or they must pay for the educational system which their conscience demands, and at the same time paj* in taxation for the system which their conscience rejects. Here we have in practical working what I have already described —a system that, in effect, allots educational taxation on what is', fundamentally, a dogmatic religious test. We respect the motive of those legislators who desired to establish a coxirse of public instruction uncoloured by religious views, so far as that motive may have been dictated by respect for the religious susceptibilities of pupils. But the legislators have obviously failed to establish a system objectively neutral in all that concerns religion. In fact, objective neutrality in this connection is as much an impossibility as a square circle. This impossibility (as I have shown in recent publications) arises out of the very nature of the case; it is evidenced bj' the declarations of manj' leading educationists, and by the frank admissions of the standard-bearers of the purely secular system in the country in which it took its rise. So true it is that if you throw one set of dogmas regarding religion out by the school door, another set will immediately come in by the window. On the part of a large section of taxpayers, I would press upon this Commission the need of according the same general educational treatment to the consciences that cannot as to the consciences that can accept those views of religion upon which our Education Act is based. A very considerable body of people in this Dominion hold the following views of the place of religion in education : They hold to the old and more generally accepted doctrine that religion is an essential part of all education properly so called. They believe that education is a vital and continuous process, proceeding on essentially uniform principles both in the home and in the school, which is merely an extension of the home. They believe that it is a grave educational error to expose the child to opposite educational influences in the school and in the well-regulated home, as, for instance, by treating his moral and intellectual faculties as if they were so many watertight compartments. They hold that the State is not above or beyond the reach of the moral law, that it has not a radically different aim from that of the individual, and that the child's high capacity for religious and moral growth is, when duly developed, of enormous value as a national asset. It therefore seems to us that, even from the patriotic viewpoint, it would be a calamity for any school system
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to leave, by however indirect a manner, upon the mind of the child the idea that religion is a matter only for the home and the church, or that it is a matter of secondary importance to arithmetic as a preparation for life, or that sufficient codes of personal conduct can be formed apart from the inspiration and the sustaining power of religion. I do not ask the members of this Commission to share these views of religion in education. 1 merely ask them to recognize the fact that these views are widely held in this Dominion. For us Catholics these teachings are as the very marrow of our lives. The case between the State school and the unaided private school is, in its last resort, a case of dogma against dogma. The fairest and most statesmanlike way is for the State to recognize in a proper and practical way that there are other views of religion in education besides those for which our present Act provides. We ask only for equal treatment of consciences in education. I know that this would present certain difficulties; but the difficulties are superficial; New Zealand statemanship has met and conquered greater; and Canada, Germany, Belgium, Scandinavia, and many other lands show that, given good-will, we also may arrive at a just settlement of this radical defect in our education system. Herbert Albert Edward Milnes examined on oath. (No. 10.) 1. The Chairman.] Will you state your qualifications, and the points you desire to bring before the Commission? —I am a Bachelor of Science of London University, and Principal of the Auckland Training College. Before entering upon the question of the training of teachers, I should like to say, as a taxpayer, that I came from England six years ago, and I have now lived in New Zealand long enough to understand its system of education, and I say emphatically that I think the public are getting their moneys worth, particularly in regard to primaryeducation. 1 think the primary education given in this country compares very favourably indeed with what 1 have been accustomed to at Home. I should not like to say- anything which would give a wrong impression, but I do not think there is very- much to find fault with. I think, as a taxpayer, apart from my position as a teacher, that things are very satisfactory indeed. The only thing upon which education experts agree is to disagree. One finds all variety- of views. One man holds that Latin is absolutely essential to education; another is equally- emphatic that Latin is w 7 aste of time. But there is one thing that all agree upon, and that is that the teacher is the pivot of the system. If you can get capable teachers—men of good character, and exercising good influence over the scholars—your syllabus can take a very secondary position. Get good teachers, and the rest can almost be left alone. There have been all sorts of systems in England. Most of them are forgotten, but we remember men like Arnold and Thring. Here in Auckland I was struck by the fact that there w 7 as once a master, Mr. Worthington, at the school in Wellesley Street. He was evidently a man of character, and he left his mark on the city- in many ways. That only emphasizes the fact that after all it is the teacher that matters. That being so, is it not important that we should see in training our teachers that the students have the best models placed before them? The Auckland Normal School is a school of about 450 or 500 scholars, and it exists for the purpose of enabling the students at the Training College to get practice in teaching. That being so, is it not necessary that every teacher in the school should be a picked teacher to act as a model to the students —the best teacher you can get in the province? Have we the best teachers in the Auckland Normal School? I do not wish to say anything derogatory to the teachers who are now in the Normal School, but any one who knows the position will agree, that there are many good teachers in the province who are not in the Normal School. Why not? Because they find the salaries offered too small. For instance, in the scheme for salaries the teachers in the Normal School receive from £90 to £420 a year. The veriest tyro who begins as a teacher in a backblocks school can get £90 a year without any qualifications whatever. Yet we are supposed to place before the students teachers at £90 a year, who are to be models to those students in their practical work. Similarly, there are teachers receiving £120 and £130 a year. There, again, although I have no fault to find with the salaries for ordinary purposes, I say that to give these salaries to teachers who are to act as models to the students seems to me unwise. You are expecting too much from the teachers for the money. It is like spoiling a suit of clothes for the sake of a few buttons. If means could be found to provide a little extra remuneration to the members of the lower grades of the staff the system would be vastly improved. The next question is whether one normal school is big enough to provide training for 100 students. The colleges, according to the regulations, may hold 100. Our school has, roughly, from 450 to 500 scholars to provide 100 students with the means of practical training—that is to say, one student has five scholars to deal with. That seems to me insufficient. I think it would be far better if, at any rate, one more normal school were established. Or would it not be better still to formally recognize what I might term the Auckland system? The Auckland Board adopted a scheme of this sort : the Chief Inspector recommended the names of picked teachers in the city schools. These were all seen at work and approved by the Principal of the Training College, and they were asked if they would be willing to allow one or two students to observe them at work. The assistant teachers who were asked and the headmasters of their schools very kindly agreed to do that without any remuneration, and it is greatly to their credit that for the last two years those teachers have been willing to take in each case two of our students and have them in their class-rooms, allowing them to watch the work, and exercising supervision over them. It seems to me that that is an excellent scheme. It is in practical working-order, and I may say that Mr. Wells, who is a member of the Commission, is headmaster of one of the schools in which it is in operation. If a little money could be provided for the remuneration of these assistant teachers it would put the. matter on a proper basis, and more could be expected from them than is expected now. It would not involve much more expense, and it would mean much better provision for the training of teachers
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102
[h. a. c. milnes.
than is available under the official system. Ihe two points I wish to make are—(l) that the salaries of the junior teachers in the normal schools should be increased, and (2) that latitude shduld be given to the Boards in the matter of providing practice for the students. The next point, which is partly connected with these, is that there are a great number of uncertificated and. incompetent teachers in the small backblocks schools. It lias been brought under my notice *ti this Way : a student has applied to enter the Training College, and has failed in his Matriculation or partial D Examination, which had he passed would have allowed him to enter-the college. Having failed in that examination he is unable to enter a training college, and yet so short of teachers is the Board that he can get an appointment as a teacher of a backblocks school or as assistant in a town school at £90 a year. It seems to me that is an unfortunate position. I am not blaming anybody; it is simply because there are not enough teachers to take up these positions. I would suggest that it might be a good thing to see if something could not be done in the way of importing English teachers. Last year a number of the training colleges were overstocked in England, and many of the students could not find appointments in schools, so many of them had to go into offices and do ordinary work. These were trained teachers of good qualifications, and I,am quite sure that if their fares were paid many of them would be willing to come out here for the experience and wider outlook which the visit would give them. They need not stay permanently; the)* need only stay until such time as teachers could be trained in sufficient numbers in the Dominion to supply the vacancies. The next point is that secondary teachers should be trained. That is brought home to me particularly at times by the students. All our students come from the secondary schools, and their criticism of the secondary schools, speaking generally, is that the teachers hear the lessons, particularly the home lessons; but that they do not teach. The students of the secondary schools are very largely left to themselves, but they are set home lessons in great quantity, and the teachers' work is chiefly to test this work, and not so much to teach. Of course, I do not know if that is a fair criticism, but that was told to me by students recently. I would suggest, if that be so, that home lessons, instead of taking the form they do now of preparing work that is set and should be done in school, should take the form of reading standard English authors. I will tell you why. I have 100 students, and the other day in a lecture I had occasion to use the name " Dominie Sampson," and in the course of the talk I asked the students the book in which that name occurs, and out of my 100 students, nearly all of whom matriculated, only three had ever read the book in which that name occurs. It seems to me unfortunate, to say the least of it, that that condition prevails now. The only suggestion I can make is that more time should be given by these secondary-school pupils to reading at night. If they have home work they have no time to read, and I think they should have their nights for reading standard English works. If they have not read these works they really cannot appreciate a newspaper. I mean to say that if the great majority of my 100 students had seen Dominie Sampson referred to in a newspaper they could not have appreciated the reference at all. So I think if secondary-school teachers were trained and therefore were able to teach more in school, the evenings of the children could be set free to do reading, which seems to me absolutely essential for the proper understanding of ordinary life. Mr. Mahon agreed with the need for the training of secondary-school teachers. The scheme is a good one; with the allowances that are given to students they may enter a training college and have experience there. The only thing that seems to be necessary is that the Boards of Governors should begin to demand trained teachers. No extra machinery is required so far as I can see if the Boards of Governors would say, "We must have trained teachers." Then those students at the University who have graduated and wish to teach in the secondary schools would have to enter the training college for a year. I would like to say a word or two about one or two points that have particularly struck me. First of all, in the primary schools I think that physical culture requires more attention. I do not know that I am exaggerating the position, but in Auckland City, at any rate, I think there is no scheme of physical culture. There is a scheme in the syllabus of course, and in every school physical culture is taught, but I do not think the teachers really know what they are teaching. There are a few enthusiasts here and there who understand something about it, and, of course, are doing good work, as enthusiasts always do wherever they are; but, speaking generally, the teachers in Auckland know little or nothing about physical culture, and little or no attention is given to physical culture. The time is put in, but not in an understanding sort of way. I was talking to the first assistant of a city school not long ago, and explaining something about physical culture, and I said that in training he should teach the boys to hold each nostril alternately while he inhaled deeply to make sure that adenoids did not block the passages. He replied, "What rubbish. I would no more allow my boys to make fools of themselves like that than I would fly." Ido not know whether the Commission is aware of it, but latterly a great amount of attention has been paid to this matter in England. A Commission was appointed some years ago to draw up a scheme of physical culture. This can be obtained in pamphlet form at a cost of 9d. This Commission drew up a careful syllabus which is self-explanatory, and diagrams are given of the exercises required. If that were introduced into New Zealand any teacher of ordinary intelligence, with a little help from a supervisor who could go round and organize the teachers and give them talks on the work, would have a fixed scheme of physical culture, which has been agreed upon by people in England, almost as good as you could wish to get. It seems to me that two organizers would be required—a man and a woman, who should have expert knowledge of the subject. I think they should first of all be teachers. The great trouble with physical-culture experts is that they are usually just gymnasts or military men, and the first essential, it,seems to me, is to have a teacher who understands child-life; he should be a man of University education. The fault of the physical-culture teaching in the past has been that it has been given by a man with just a big chest or muscle, and he has been allowed to run riot with the children. I think more attention should be paid to the physical side of children's education generally.
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Supposing there were two classes of efficiency, A and B. Those children who showed good chestcapacity, and had showed attention to health and had gone in for swimming and life-saving, --should get a certificate of proficiency of Grade A; and those who had not passed the physical test, but had merely passed a mental test, should only get one of Grade B. It seems to me that .would be an excellent thing to lift up the attitude of the people at large towards physical culture. "Everybody should be healthy 7,' and very few are, speaking generally; and I think if people paid more attention to this work in schools they would be doing valuable service, because it would react so much on the mental side. Of course, healthy people are those who always do the best mental work. Another thing I would like to mention is the question of bursaries for travelling. So far as I know, there is no definite scheme here for young teachers who are anxious to improve their outlook to go abroad. There has been some talk, at various Conferences with regard to an exchange of teachers, and I think it might be a good thing if specially selected students who have been through the training college and been teaching in a school for several years, could have their fares paid to England or to some other country. They could teach while over there, because that is the best way to find out what is going on in educational work, so that no maintenance would be required while they 7 were away. I would suggest that they should sign a bond to come back to New Zealand and teach here, so that our children may have the benefit of their wider experience. It seems to me that would be an additional incentive to teachers. At the present time the conditions are not so attractive that good men will stay in the profession, and if an inducement of this sort were held out to them I think they would work more willingly. I have one other suggestion, and it is in connection with nomenclature. I would like to see used, instead of the word " Inspector," the word " Adviser." I think " Adviser-General " would sound just as well as " Inspector-General." When I first came here I was struck with the way the word Inspector was used —Inspector of Police, Inspector of Noxious Weeds, and Inspector of so-and-so. Inspector implies looking for something wrong, and I do not think that is just the spirit we should have in connection with education. An Inspector does not go to a school to ferret out faults there, but rather to advise the teacher, and help him in every way. I think if the word " Adviser " were used it would create a better feeling, and would be more in accordance with the modern attitude of Inspectors towards the teachers of schools. Of course, you cannot compel people to use the word " Adviser," but it might be used exclusively in official documents. Similarly, the indiscriminate use of the words " school " and " college " leads to much misunderstanding. When I first came here I was particularly struck with the class of children in the Normal School. I found there the children of doctors and lawyers and professional men generally, and I was very favourably impressed by the fact that the people as a whole were quite willing to use the primary schools for the education of their children; but it seems to me that there has since been a deterioration in this respect. Class feeling has sprung up, and private secondary schools and colleges so-called, such as King's College, have grown very largely since I have been here, whfch seems to indicate that people prefer to send their children to these private class schools. I think it is unfortunate it should be so. I think our primary schools should give the best education, and that everybody in the community should be willing to send their children to them. The word "college," it seems to me, is misused altogether. These private schools usually call themselves colleges, and the ordinary parent who does not understand thinks that the college, so-called, is a better institution than a school. I think it would be far better if in official documents all schools should be called plainly schools, and that the term "college" should be reserved only for the four University Colleges. The training college, I think, is wrongly named. I think it should be a school of teaching, just as one talks about a school of mines. I think confusion would be avoided if this system of nomenclature were adopted in all official documents. 2. Mr. Davidson.] You stated you had 100 students : is that the number in the other three training colleges? —I think so 3. Do y 7 ou know if your plan of providing practice in teaching is that adopted in the other centres?—No; the plan of having a normal school, of course, is, but not the plan of having picked assistants. 4. In your opinion, the providing of one normal school in each centre at which students may get practice in teaching is insufficient? —-Well, insufficient as it stands by itself; but if the plan we have in Auckland of using these other assistants were adopted, it may be sufficient. 5. You spoke about the advisability of providing bursaries for sending New Zealand teachers to other countries, and you mentioned England particularly, and suggested that these teachers might be employed there in teaching in different schools and receive salaries. Seeing that there is an oversupply of teachers in England at the present time, do you think it would be possible to do that?— Quite possible, because just now there is a strong feeling in favour of New Zealand, and I think the people at Home would be willing to do anything to favour New Zealand people. I am quite sure, if the New Zealand authorities took action in the matter, it might be arranged. Of course, it might lead to an exchange of teachers. 6. You spoke of English teachers being imported to supply the deficiency at present existing in New Zealand : do you think that if these teachers were sent to out-of-the-way schools they would be likely to be contented? —I think if the whole thing were properly explained to them before they came out, and they knew exactly the conditions under which they would work, they would not be discontented. I have had to do with two English teachers who wrote to me on this point. I told them very plainly what the facts were, and I put the case to them as badly as I could; however, they came out here, and they went to backblocks schools, and they like the work very much; in fact, they are delighted with it. If that has happened in two cases, I do not see why it should not happen in others. All that is necessary is that the position should be properly explained to them before they leave.
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7. You spoke of physical instruction, and of its neglect in Auckland?—l did not say there was any neglect. What I referred to was the want of training in the teachers who are giving the instruction. 8. Are these breathing-exercises not being generally done in the schools in Auckland? —I think they are, but I do not think they are understood by the teachers to a large extent. - 9. Have they instructors in physical education? —No; no particular instructor. There is no systematic scheme of instruction at all. Of course, the Inspectors look after the matter, and do what they can, but I think it is advisable to have a definite man. In Edinburgh there is a Director of Physical Instruction, and he has ten assistants, who do nothing else. 10. Are you aware that in some districts in New Zealand this systematic instruction is given? -Yes. 11. And such a system ought easily to be possible in such a very large district as Auckland? —Yes. 12. You have a large number of your students who sit for the C certificate at the end of the - year ?—All of them. 13. Have you anything to say in regard to the new regulations for the examination, and classification of teachers?-r-No; except, of course, that I partly indorse them. I think they are on right lines. There are great difficulties in the way of teachers—not in the city—who cannot get practical science. The syllabus aims at making the work practical, and that, I think, is right. 14. Do you think it is possible to give eighty hours a year to the training for this? —We have arranged to give it; it is quite possible. 15. Without neglecting other work?— Well, if you did not give eighty hours, you would be giving more attention to something else. You can do anything you have to do. 16. What do you say if the principals of other training colleges assert that this is an impossible condition?—l would advise them to come to Auckland, and I will show them, how- we do it. 17. Did you see these regulations before they were issued? —No. 18. When did they first come into your hands?--We did not get them until the beginning of March. 19. After you had drawn up your scheme of work? —Yes; we working on the scheme of work of last year until they came out. 20. Do you think it would be advisable, before issuing regulations of this kind, that the principals of the training colleges should have an opportunity of seeing them?—l would very much appreciate the opportunity of talking them over. Personally, I give up my life to my 7 work; it is a hobby with me as much as work; and if that is only recognized, and people are vulling to consult me, I -will work all the harder. But if lam simply used as a tool, and told to do this and that, I do not like it. 21. Mr. Kirk.] Are there physical-training exercises apart from the junior-cadet work in the schools ? —Yes. 22. So you have a distinct part of the week set apart for physical exercises?— Yes, which are limited in most of the schools to a quarter of an hour in the beginning of the day. 23. Is not the junior-cadet work largely ph3 7 sical exercises? —As far as I can make out, the chief work done by junior cadets is to dress up and walk about. Personally, Ido not think they do much good. It is well to have them organized, and nice to see them marching and holdingreviews; but I think there is far too much walking in line and forming fours. What is the use of all this inarching? It is so unintelligent; and the students who have been through the course all think the same thing. They soon learn how to stand and form fours, and they want to learn something else. 24. Is that the highest form of drill they get?-—They do some fixed definite exercises in addition as part of the cadet work. 25. What are these exercises? —They have been trained by military men, who do not know anything about children, and they are not good exercises. 26. There is a system of physical exercises, then, included with junior-cadet work, wffiich system you condemn ?—Yes. 27. On the grounds that it is not in accordance with scientific principles of ph3 7 sical training? —Very largely. It has been drawn up by military men, who do not understand child-life; that is my personal opinion, after looking into the position very closely, and giving it careful consideration. 28. The physical exercises given by the instructors to the junior cadets, then, are really harmful in your opinion?— Well, perhaps that is expressing it rather strongly; T would agree it is partially harmful 29. And ought to be revised? —I think so. 30. With regard to what you suggest as to the A and B Grade certificates, you have in your school, I suppose, brainy boys and girls who vet are to a certain extent handicapped by reason of ill health? —Yes, because they have not paid attention to physical culture. 31. Or because of their environment and heredity?-—lf they are properly trained in the school you can overcome that to a certain extent. If a boy 7 takes a pride in his carriage, and wants to have a big chest, he very soon begins to improve. 32. But, assuming all you have said to be the case, is it not a fact that you would still have briny boys and girls who are physically deficient, notwithstanding all their efforts to make themselves right?— Perhaps I had better explain that Ido not want to get a big burly boy. All I want to imply is that a boy should make the most of what he has, and not neglect what he has. You can wo round the schools of Auckland, and see dozens of boys sitting hunched up over their desks, with pinched faces. If they were told to sit up, with their chests out, and were made to sit up, and
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the furniture of the schools made them sit up, and their parents made them walk with an erect carriage, it seems to me we would build up a different race altogether. Carriage is neglected altogether now, except by a few odd teachers here and there. 33. In the case of those children who with the best of intentions cannot reach to this state of. physical fitness, would not the introduction of the B Grade certificates rather discourage the 'John Ruskins of the future, for instance?—l think Join; Rusk in. would have been far better if he has been able to swim as a boy instead of writing such a lot of rubbish as he did in his later years. 34. In respect to these children who are bright and brainy, and yet nevertheless are not up to the physical standard, would it not have the effect rather of discouraging them?—l will not admit they would not be up to the physical standard 1 would set. All I want is that every boy should have a body. He has a brain, and he should pay as much attention to his body as to his brain. 35. Mr. Wells.] I gather from your replies you would consider the individual's efforts to improve his body rather than the ultimate result reached? —Decidedly. 36. I think the students at the training college may be divided into two classes —those who have had experience of teaching, and those who have not? —Yes. 37. What is your opinion of taking into the training' college students without experience in the method of teaching? Do you think it is wise?— Speaking generally, I think it would be far.better if the students who come to the training college had some little experience in schools — say, two years as probationers. I think that would give them a chance to look round and find out if they are really likely to make teachers. On the other hand, Ido not.think the rule should be too rigid. I think the present scheme is a very good one, because, certain people only find out late in life that they have any call to be teachers. I have had actual experience of men who have taken up teaching late in life after having done other work, and without having had any previous training at all, and the two men 1 have in my mind are doing as excellent work to-day as men who have had previous training. I personally would like to see the present system continued. 38. There are some pupil-teachers who fail to get admission to the training college through failure to get a certificate or pass matriculation : do you not think it would be better to allow them a chance rather than take any people without previous experience ?—Well, if it came to the question, I suppose it would in fairness, provided they had an aptitude for teaching. Ido not hold that a teacher should be a prodigy. I find in experience that some of the best teachers are dull, and their dulness makes them sympathize with the children. 39. You would not shut out a pupil-teacher who had done good work for a number of years because he had failed to pass the examination? —No, I would like to see them included in some way. 40. With regard to the practical work, you find that at the Normal School there is not sufficient scope for practical work. Do you consider that the pupils of the school suffer through the large amount of practising that the students have to do through being confined to practicework at that school? —Of course, one does not like to admit that one's own institution is not the! best, and I do not know 7 that I am prepared to say that the normal-school children suffer in any way from the presence of the students, because what they lose, in one direction they gain in another, because there is so much striving on the part of the students to give good lessons that the pupils get very much better teaching probably than they get anywhere else. -11. Continuity of teaching is an important factor?- -Undoubtedly, and that is disturbed. 42. You were speaking of the importance of reading, and you were suggesting reading instead of home work in the secondary schools : what steps would you take to see that the reading was done? —1 would set it as definite home work, f would get editions of standard authors, and would get the pupils to prepare a pricis of whatever work they had read, and thus find out if they had read it and understood it, 43. You were speaking of bursaries for young teachers, to enable them to travel: do you not think it would be a good plan if it were a recognized principle that Inspectors should get a year off for travel? —I think it would be a very good thing; that is the custom in many countries. 44. You think that might well be recommended here ?—Very well indeed. 45. On account of the way in which Inspectors are brought into touch with large numbers of schools, you think what they gained through travel w-ould be made specially- valuable?—Veryvaluable indeed.. Of course, "doubtless if bursaries were put into practice for young teachers they would in time become Inspectors, being-picked students. 46. In your opinion, will these new regulations make it much more difficult for backblock teachers to advance themselves? —I should think it would make it impossible for them. They cannot do eighty hours practical work in the backblocks. This will cut them out of the service so far as I can see. 47. Will it make it much more difficult to get. teachers to go into the backblocks?—l should think so. .... 48. Can you offer any suggestions at all for improvements in the present training-college course other than you have made?—l. do not know that I can. It is an excellent scheme as far as I can see and compares very favourably indeed with anything I have been able to read about or to come across. 49. Mr. Pirani? You outlined to us a method adopted in Auckland in regard to training assistants : is anything done outside the training college but in connection with the training college for training teachers of small schools? —No ; we are so fully occupied with the 100 students we have that we cannot do much more. 50. Is it not possible to have a system of special small schools selected by the Inspectors as what you might call observation schools, at which students, or teachers even, could attend on certain days or certain weeks in the year, and so get experience in regard to sole-teacher schools? It would be possible, but not, in my opinion, advisable. I think a teacher should be trained. ■. :.-....,.
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51. I am talking about your students: would it not be possible to have "one-teacher" schools which are in charge of specially good teachers who would be recommended by the Inspectors as teachers under whom you could place for a certain portion of the year any of your students to get trained in the work of sole-teacher schools?— That exists already; that is part of the .Normal School.. 52. I am not talking about the Normal School now. For instance, there are parts of this district where the teachers cannot possibly come to the Normal School, and would it not be possible to devise some scheme by which under the government of the Normal School such schools could be utilized for training sole-teacher schools?—Do 3 7 0u not think that implies training as well as teachers ? How long do you propose they should be there ? I cannot see how you can train a teacher under at least two years. You might give a sort of veneer, but that is all. We can barely give a finish in two years. 53. Do you not know that there are hundreds of teachers in New Zealand who go into soleteacher schools without a single hour's preliminary training?—l do, and I think it lamentable. 54. Do you not think a system such as I suggest would improve that sort of thing to some extent?—lt would be better, but I do not recommend it, I think it would be better to have a properly trained teacher. If we cannot get a properly trained teacher, I admit your scheme is better than nothing. 55. In regard to importing teachers from Home, what would you do in this case —I might say it is our case : Suppose you import three teachers from Home, and two marry within twelve months? —I should not import them unless I had them, under a bond. I did not go fully into the details, but I naturally imply a bond would be necessary, as in our own case. 56. Is there any process of law by which you could recover under a bond from a married woman ? —No. 57. So the bond would have no value except a moral value?— Moral, of course. If a person knew that, they would not wish to break the bond. 58. You think it advisable, then, if anything is done in the way of importing teachers, that a bond should be entered into by them to put in a certain period of service? —I think so, decidedly. 59. Mr. Hogben.] In regard to new regulations for teachers, were not many of the things in the new regulations discussed at the last Training College Conference in 1910? —There was no mention made of eighty hours in practical science. They were discussed in a general way, just as we discussed the question that normal-school teachers in the lower grade should have higher salaries. That was carried twice by two Conferences, but nothing has yet been done. 60. That is a matter of money?— Yes. 61. It is true that the staff has been increased since the Training College Conference? —Yes, but, unfortunately, in the wrong way, to a certain extent. The assistants getting sufficient salary have got an increase, and the ones at the lower end have not been increased. This is only another instance of the fact that if we were taken into the Department's confidence probably we would prevent this sort of thing. 62. Do you think the regulations make it impossible for backblock teachers if the Boards had money enough to form special classes and to bring these teachers to the centres?—lt would be quite possible then. 63. You think that would be necessary?— Absolutely. 64.. The Chairman.] There are thirteen hundred schools in the Dominion at which there are more or less untrained and uncertificated teachers. You have told the Commission that you cannot give them the full measure of instruction. The new syllabus for teachers makes certain demands upon them, and you say it is impossible for them to fulfil these demands under existing conditions. How is this state of things to be remedied? —Only, so far as I can see, by increasing the number of training colleges. I do not think there is sufficient to supply the need. There are only four, which are turning out, on an average, two hundred teachers a year, and I do not think two hundred are sufficient to supply the schools. 65. In regard to the plan you pursue in the Auckland Training College of giving your probationers and pupil-teachers a chance of seeing what is being done outside, are you aware that in some parts of the Dominion the training colleges have had attached what are called associated schools?—l do not believe in these at all. 1 have had experience of them in England. The trouble in associated schools is that the assistants are not picked assistants. We do not take associated schools. We will take a school—say, the Devonport School —then pick out the best teacher there, and take him only as our model. We leave the rest alone. 66. Mr. Wells.] What is being done in the Auckland Training College in regard to the training of teachers to teach agriculture in our schools? Are you making any effort to do that? —Yes, we are compelled by our regulations to teach agriculture to all students in the training colleges. 67. Is any practical work done? —Yes, there is a garden attached to the Normal School. 68. What is the area of it? —It is not a very large one, but it has been found quite satisfactory. We hold you can learn as much from the growing of one bean as by the growing of an acre of beans. If the space is small but properly utilized, you can get all the practice and training you want. 69. In your opinion, the instruction now being given at the school is quite satisfactory? Yes, I would say so without any hesitation at all. 70. Mr. Davidson.] Is it not a fact that many of these sole-teacher schools are now in charge of trained teachers? —Yes, undoubtedly.
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71. And that many uncertificated teachers are to be found on the staffs of the larger schools? —Yes, undoubtedly. The plan of the Auckland Board is very largely to send out trained teachers into the backblock schools. It is part of their rules that every student must serve two years in the countr} 7 before he can get promotion. 72. Suppose the Education Board, in selecting teachers for these sole-teacher schools within a radius of' ten or twenty miles of Auckland, selected the very best teachers, would it not be possible to do as you do in the case of city schools —send your students for a shorter or longer time to these sole-teacher schools where excellent teachers are to be found? —We have alreadj 7 two schools attached to the Normal School—one a country school, taught by one teacher; and another a junior country school, taught b3 7 one lady teacher of particularly good qualifications. The teaching in that school is the same teaching that we get in the standards, except as to the problem of managing all the classes at once, but it is not necessary- for the students to be there quite so long. If they are there a week they learn as much as the} 7 are probably likely to learn. 73. You think that the one sole-teacher school in connection with the Training College is sufficient for the 100 students?—We were also using the Mangere Bridge School at one time; that was a two-teacher school. William Oliver Lamb examined on oath. (No. 11.) 1. The Chairman.] What are your qualifications and position ?—I hold aCf certificate, and lam headmaster of the Maungakaramea School. I am also president of the Auckland Country Teachers' Association. 2. What are the matters in the order of reference with which you wish to deal ?—Speaking on behalf of the associaton, I would like to state that the grading scheme of the Auckland Board, though not recognized as a perfect one, has the confidence of the country teachers. Our reason for that confidence is this : Under the old system canvassing was rife, and in that respect the country teacher was distinctly handicapped. He was too far from the centre, and not in a position even to make the influence of his friends felt. He therefore welcomed a change that should be based on merit alone. I think the Auckland Country Teachers' Association was the first body to ask the Board to send only one name to the School Committee when an appointment was about to be made—that of the teacher standing highest on the list. That was in March, 1900. We were therefore exceedingly pleased later on to find that the Board had adopted that principle —the automatic principle. The four-name system had been proved unsatisfactory. In the percentage of marks one candidate might be removed from another by ninety or even a hundred places in the numerical order, therefore the sending of four names was ineffectual. Apart from that, the teachers knew in many cases the man who ought to get the position on his merits, and under the four-name system that man often did not get it. I have said that we do not consider the present scheme perfect. We should have liked to see not only the percentage of marks but the order of merit sent to the Committee, and we asked the Board for that concession, but the Board could not see its way to grant it. Nevertheless, when a motion was tabled hostile to the scheme the country teachers overlooked this defect. They felt that they were going tcS lose something if the scheme were pushed aside, and they reaffirmed their confidence in it. In any scheme of promotion, however, we consider that special marks should be given for service in the remote districts in the backblocks, because of the peculiar hardships of life in those districts, and. his remoteness from the University College, and the benefits of tuition generally. Probably the greater number of the uncertificated teachers will, on that account, be found in the country. I may say that there are one thousand three hundred uncertificated teachers in the Dominion. If in any promotion scheme certain marks were allowed for a partial certificate, that would be an encouragement to the backblocks teachers to improve their status. lam not in agreement with those who would abolish the examinations for Junior National Scholarships and Education Board Scholarships, and substitute a Free Place Examination. I would be in favour of abolishing all three and making the avenue to secondary education a certificate awarded by the Inspector after consultation with the head teacher of the school. All teachers of experience know that many candidates are fitted to receive that certificate who cannot do themselves justice in an examination. I consider that secondary education should be free and accessible to all who are fitted for it. The chief avenue to it at the present time is the certificate of proficiency, and I would like to ask, What percentage of the candidates who are able to avail themselves of that certificate come from the country ? There is considerable leakage and economic waste in the fact that the country children do not come to the secondary schools. We are told that this is essentially an agricultural country, and that our children should be given a bias towards the land. But what must be the feelings of a country parent who has a particularly bright child whom he is unable to send to a secondary school ? It must be one of his bitterest regrets. I think that last year something like £10,000 was allocated for National Scholarships. If some of this were given to country children as boarding-allowances, I think there would be a great gain. I think the competitive system is entirely 7 out of harmony with the spirit of the syllabus and. with the spirit of modern education, and should be entirely wiped away. I contend, further, that the ability of many children is not discovered at the age of fourteen. As an ex-student of the Thames High School, I notice that many of m) 7 old schoolmates who have since been successful in life did not attain to positions of honour in the school. One of them, now a Doctor of Science, and successful in the practical affairs of the world, did not put his best foot forward until he was sixteen, while any number of men now successful were not winners of either Senior or Junior Scholarships. We may, in exalting early precocity, be passing over the child of average attainments. That is a question we should keep in mind. I think that the accrediting system might be a means of lessening
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the cost of education in some small measure, If the best schools were given, say, two 3 7 ears freedom from inspection, and then the Inspector came along to adjudicate upon their work, there would be a considerable gain in the fact that the Inspectors could employ their time in the schools that had more, need of their assistance. I think the question of the comforts and conveniences in country teachers' houses will be held to have a bearing upon the question of efficiency. Our association felt so keenby on this matter that two years ago they petitioned Parliament, and the teachers of other education districts followed suit. I believe that it was as a sequel to those petitions that a grant was made for the improvement of the teachers' surroundings, but this grant has proved inadequate. In this connection I should like to submit to the Commission this return which has been prepared in the Education Board's Office.
Auckland Education Board. — Conveniences to Teachers' Dwellings. — List of Improvements submitted to Department.
I should like the Commission to picture to themselves the schoolmaster's wife on washing-day, doing the family washing out of doors. Then remember that we are expected to teach the principles of hygiene, and the only example we can set to the children in our own persons is to seek the nearest creek for our ablutions. This matter has come up year after year at the Council of the New Zealand Educational Institute ; resolutions bearing upon it have been carried unanimously, and sent to the Department, but the fact that it still has to come up annually.is evidence of how inadequately it has been dealt with. Coming to the question of consolidating rural schools, I am entirely in sympathy with my association that it is desirable that there should be one central school with two or three teachers, instead of a number of small schools. It is true that in the Auckland District, wdiere the roads are not perfect, that can only be done in certain parts of the province. The gain in economy must be obvious, and we would get a better class of teachers, for there would be more well-paid positions. Our Chief Inspector lately said that there were only sixty schools in the district with average attendances over 160. In the whole Dominion there are 196 with more than 160 scholars, and these are the prizes of the profession. The number of small schools up to and including thirty is 1,280 for the Dominion, and in our province there are 363 small schools. The great problem in any promotion scheme must be that there are not enough well-paid positions to go round. I think the children might be gathered for distances of ten miles if there were motor traction and good roads. This has been tried with success in countries like Victoria, Canada, and the United States. Another point is that I think teaching service ought to be counted beyond twenty years. The Auckland Board do not allow- for service beyond twenty years. The ripe experience of the man who has been teaching beyond that period must be of value to the State, and some numerical value ought to be attached to it—say, half a mark per annum, or something of that kind. Recurring to the question of secondary education, I see no reason why a country child should necessarily have a classical education. I think a rural course might very well take the place of the ordinary secondary-school course, thus bringing the child into touch with his environment, and living him a bias towards the land. Tfie attention of the Commission has been called to certain anomalies in the staffing. I think there should be a subgrade between 36 and 80. I know of teachers who find their work very heavy indeed when their roll-number is in the eighties. It must be remembered that in that case the assistant would have something like fifty pupils, and perhaps more, in the three croups of primers, and Standards I and II : and the headmaster might have fifty pupils. There might be a very great difference between the average attendance and the roll-number. There is need for more elasticity in regard to the change of staffing from Grade 3to Grade 4. Sometimes a school drops back to Grade 3. and yet may go back again to Grade 4 after having lost the assistant. The teacher would then be doing sole-charge work with a very heavy roll-number. I think there should be a change in the regulations whereby the change could be made more rapidly from 3 to 4—whereby such a school as I have mentioned could get an assistant again. Again referring to service in remote districts, I would like to state what is the practice in certain States. In South Australia there is an unwritten law by which service in the country is demanded of the men who are seeking promotion; in New South Wales from two to five years are asked of service in the country ; in Queensland four years from male and two years from female teachers. The teacher who goes away from town and its advantages deserves especial recognition. Where the work of such a teacher commends itself to the Inspector it should be taken into account that he is doing it under grave disabilities, and special value should be attached to it. It is somewhat of a grievance with country teachers
Wash-house and ' Bathroom. Bathroom. Wash-house. Fittings to Wash-house. Recommended to be carried out at once Recommended to be carried out when funds available .ecommended to be deferred ot recommended at present 19 10 30 12 18 8 10 6 4 6 12 H 12 4 Total needed 71 42 to 72 Authorized Still needed 13 58 17 25 I 9 6 66
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that the free-book grant does not provide for the grouping of classes. In the syllabus we are recommended to group classes. It makes for efficiency if Standards 111 and IV are grouped for reading. If there are seven children in Standard IV and fifteen in Standard 111 you have only seven books for the twenty-two children, ft can be readily understood what a difference that makes in the working of the school. I am a believer in the system of travelling libraries for schools ; country children are not a reading class. The demands made upon them in the way of home labour interferes with their becoming so. But I think that if books were sent along that were continually changed the results would be good. I would be in favour of a good number of abridged books being sent. If a child became interested in the abridged edition he might then go to the complete book and continue his studies. With reference to Mr. Milnes's comments upon the cadet system, I think there is something more than marching and forming fours in the cadet work. I was in the cadets' camp, and I can speak from practical experience of the benefits of the system, i think it forms an excellent system of training in certain habits of neatness, accuracy, and punctuality. Over and above marching, there is training in such work as skirmishing, advancing over country, and taking cover. But I agree with Mr. Milnes as to the need for more attention to physical culture. In my school we have physical exercises and deep breathing every day, but I feel, and I think other teachers feel, that they need some training in the basic principles underlying this great question. I take it that education means a harmonious development of all the powers of a child, physical, mental, and moral. I remember the case of a successful Junior Scholarship candidate w 7 ho had no inclination for play-ground games, and who later in life told me that he had failed to pass the test for chest-measurement when he wanted to enter the Civil Service, and he had to take his camera on his back and tramp the hills in the effort to increase his chestmeasurement, I agree that we should have a robust boyhood and girlhood if we are to build up a virile nation. As showing the sympathy with which the country teachers regard this matter, I may say that in 1910 we notified the Department that we would welcome medical inspection of our schools. Regarding the inability- of country children to attend schools, the Principal of the Whangarei High School told me lately that out of seventy-six enrolled this year twenty had to board in the town. One boy is riding fifteen miles back and forwards in order to attend the school. I agree with those who hold that the salaries paid to education officers and teachers is inadequate when compared with the emoluments offered in other professions and in commerce. We should have the very best men for our Inspectors, and pay them the highest possible, salaries. The system of appointment of Inspectors needs a certain amount of care. If the appointment of teachers is stripped of all partonage, why should not the. same principle apply to the Inspectors, who have to direct the work, and who have the careers of the teachers in their hands. But that is not the case. I think, too, that the salaries of the country teachers call for revision, because the cost of living has gone up. Perhaps we have come to regard as necessities what were formerly luxuries, but we cannot control that altogether. The salaries in the case of many of the countr} 7 schools leave a very small margin, and in many of the aided schools a living wage is not paid. 3. Mr. Pirani.] Do you think a teacher who teaches three or four children as a day's occupation should be paid a living wage for that work ? —I do. 4. Where would you put the limit ? Would you say that a teacher who taught one child as his day's work should have a living wage ? —I think centralization, of schools would remove-that difficulty. 5. Is there anything to prevent centralization now ?—ln mam 7 cases there is not. 6. If there is not centralization of schools now, who is to blame ?—I think local jealousies are a good deal to blame. It is regarded as a very desirable thing in each little village that it should have a school. I dare say it has a bearing on the value of the land. 7. But surely the village people have no control over the amalgamation of schools ?—They have an influence on the Education Boards. They control and influence the elections. 8. What method would you suggest for dealing with the problem ?—I warmly advocate centralization. 9. How should it be done ?—By providing for the conveyance of the children. 10. But what alteration of the law would you suggest ?—I should begin at the root of things, and abolish the election of the Boards by the Committees—have them elected on the general franchise. There would not then be local jealousies influencing the matter. 11. Do you know of any instance where an Education Board has desired to abolish certain schools and establish a central school in their stead, and has been prevented by local influence ?—No ; but I know of an organization of School Committees which I can easily imagine would have a considerable influence on the election of the members of the Board. Such an organization exists in the Auckland District. 12. Does it not come to this : that you are dissatisfied with the men who control education in this district in that respect —that you do not believe they have done their duty ?—I think they have endeavoured to do their duty, but perhaps they have not seen it to be their duty. 13. In the classification of teachers, would you count service be3 7 ond twenty years without regard to efficiency ?—Certainly not. 14. When would you say the limit ought to be ? —At thirty years. 15. You would extend it ten years beyond the present plan ?—I think so. 16. Do you not think a man of forty-five years of age is capable of improvement in his methods of working after reaching fori'y-five ? —lf you got beyond thirty years the marks so earned might have rather a preponderating weight; therefore we would be content with thirty years. 17. Would it not be a better method to give extra pay to the teachers who put in more than a certain number of years' service, regardless of the positions they occupied ?—That might meet the case. I think it would meet with the favour of country teachers. I should like to emphasize here
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the point that one effect of creating a new subgrade between Grade 4 and Grade 5 would be to provide a considerable number of better-paid positions. At present there are a large number of teachers who have no hope of getting past Grade 4. A glance at the list of 196 schools in the Dominion makes that obvious. . 18. Have you had anything to do with correspondence schools belonging to proprietaries outside 'the Dominion ? —No. There are some excellent institutions in Auckland, of which teachers take advantage. 19. Should there not be some kind of supervision by the Department or the Education Board over schools of that nature, to guarantee to the students that they get value for their money ? —I think fair competition might be allowed there. Teachers pretty soon distinguish the shadow from the substance. 20. Is it not rather late for a teacher when he finds out that a system is a fraud ? —They do not invest money in that way until after pretty careful inquiries. 21. Mr. Wells.] How are the new regulations as to the obtaining of certificates regarded by the country teachers ?—A good many have expressed to me feelings of dismay. They do not see how they are going to fulfil the requirements. 22. Will their enforcement make country service still more unpopular ?—I think that until facilities are provided by the Department for fulfilling the science course they are impossible. I rather favour the idea of making the teaching of science practical. I have had some experience of labaratory work. 23. Would it be an assistance to uncertificated teachers in the backblocks to be allowed to take their D certificates in three sections ?—Yes, and I see no reason why it should not be done. It would be a distinct help to them. 24. As a country teacher, can you give us any idea of the extent of child-labour in the country districts in the way of milking and dairy-work ? Is any hardship entailed in that way ?—ln 1910 the Country Teachers' Association drew up the headings for a return, which it sent to the country headmasters to be filled in. The headings were : " Age of Pupil at October, 1909 " ; "S. Class " ; " Time of Rising and Time of going to Bed "; " Number of Cows milked —Morn., Night"; " Time occupied in this or other Home Labour " ; " Distance from School" ; " How Child travels to School " ; " Regularity and Punctuality Attendance " ; " Other Remarks — e.g., Mental and Physical Condition 'of the Child." We found that in individual cases there was very great hardship. Some children were doing as much as six and seven hours' home labour and travelling several miles to school, arriving in an altogether jaded condition, which would make them by no means receptive, and would influence their school-work. We recognized that the prosperity of the Dominion was based on its agricultural and pastoral resources, so we approached the question in no spirit of antagonism to the settlers. We simply wanted to know. In some cases there was no hardship at all—simply the milking of two or three cows —but in other instances it was nothing but child-slavery. 25. Has your association any suggestion to offer as to how the difficulty might be grappled with ? —We talked it over a good deal, and thought that the advent of the milking-machine would remove it, A good deal of the home labour, however, consists in cleaning the separators, and work of that kind. Still, the introduction of the milking-machine will remove a good deal of the trouble. 26. Would you advocate the appointment of Inspectors from the teachers' graded list ?—Yes. 27. Might not a man be a very highly qualified teacher, and occupy a high place on the graded list, and yet be quite unsuitable for the inspectorate ?—That is possible, and would have to be taken into account; but still there could be attention to the list too. 28. Mr. Kirk.] Do you go the length of suggesting that secondary education should be compulsory ? —I would. Ido not necessarily mean classical education. I would say that the country boy should oompulsorily attend classes in rural education —follow a rural science course, for instance. 29. Do the School Committees attend to their duties in regard to school buildings satisfactorily ? —They endeavour to do so. 30. But do they succeed ?—There is often a breakdown of the system with regard to sanitation. A teacher often has to wait upon them with an urgent request. I think it would be a very happy thing if we could improve the conditions in that respect. 31. It is a really serious matter, opinion ?—ln some cases. 32. Is proper attention paid to the fumigation of the school itself ?—I do not think fumigation is carried on except after epidemics. No periodical fumigation is undertaken, in my experience. There may be cases, but I do not think it is a general thing. 33. Is the ventilation of the schools satisfactory ?—I think so. I think the character of the schools has improved wonderfully in the last twelve or fifteen yea.rs. 34. Are you of opinion that the teaching of sexual physiology is desirable ?—I am ; but I think it should not be carried on by the teacher, but should be left to some one with a decided sympathy with the child nature. 35. Mr. Poland.] Can you give an instance where, in your opinion, centralization could well be carried out in the Auckland District ? —lt might be well carried out in the Thames centre. The schools there are very close together. 36. How many schools are there in that district ? —The Tararu, Waiokaraka, Baillie Street, and Parawai, all within four or five miles. 37. Should the whole of those schools be combined into one ?—lnto two, possibly. 38. What limit would you place on the number of scholars to get the best results ?—A school of 500 can be very efficiently managed. 39. What is about the attendance at the schools you have named ?—The Baillie Street School will have an attendance of about 400.
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40. Well, could you do much centralization at the Thames under your proposal ?—I said it would be a great desideratum to have schools of 500 ; but I would go further, and say that you might have ...schools organized with one headmaster in charge of several. I think there is a good deal to commend that system. 41. Would it not reduce cost and increase efficiency to have one headmaster over a number of schools ?—lf .the schools were not built for over 1,000 children in the first place. If schools were built on modern lines, probabh 7 1,000, or at any rate 750, scholars could be well dealt with. 42. Do you know of any other district where centralization could be applied ?—I think it might be practicable in some of the districts of the Waikato, along the railway-line. 43. Do you think the money spent on the purchase of free school-books is wisely spent ?—I think it might be much better spent on stationery. There is a great disability in the fact that the children cannot take the books home. 44. Do you think the money expended now is wasted ?—A considerable amount of it is wasted, because the books are duplicated. Reading-books are bought by the children in addition to those supplied. I think I can say in favour of the system that it has done a good deal in extending the children's reading. The supplementary readers give them a wider range of reading. 45. Have you a library in your school ? —Yes. 46. The Chairman.] Is it supplemented from time to time ?—No. I think the system in connection with the libraries is one grant. I think a regular subsidy would be a gain. 47. Mr. Poland.] Would not a travelling library obviate that ? —Yes. 48. Mr. Thomson.] You think secondary education should be compulsory ?—I should like to see it compulsory up to the age of seventeen, and be of a vocational nature. 49. Mr. Davidson.] Do you know of any part of the British Empire where more liberal staffing is in operation than that allowed in New Zealand in the grade where j>ou now propose a subgrade ? —No ; but New Zealand leads the world in most things, so we may have a little hope in that. 50. In a school of seventy-five, would there not be at least thirty-five in the preparatory classes and Standards I and II ? —There would be more than that; nearer fifty. 51. That would leave only twenty-five in Standard 111 and upwards. Surely you will not contend that there is great difficulty in the headmaster having twenty-five scholars to deal with ?• —But the foundation work of the school is laid in the infant classes. If the headmaster did not get assistance, the infant mistress or woman assistant should have it. 52. I do not admit that there would be fifty in the preparatory classes and first two standards ? —I have known a roll-number of forty-three out of sixty-eight. 53. What class of school do you consider most easily worked below Grade 6 ? —The school where the attendance is just over thirty-six. 54. Is it not the general opinion of teachers that the two-teacher school is the pick of country positions ?—Yes, at one end, when it is near the minimum. 55. What is the attendance at your school ? —There are sixty-eight on the roll. 56. What percentage of the pupils provide their own books although the books are provided by the State ? —I was not speaking of my own school when referring to that matte . 57. Have you many free books stowed away in the cupboards unused ? —No. They use them in the school, but in some cases they purchased books in order to get up their spelling and reading work. I have heard of some schools where all the children have provided themselves with books. 58. Do you know that many teachers encourage the children to purchase their own books ? —Yes. 59. On the question of the conveyance of school-children to a central school, you had in your mind more particularly the country schools ? —Yes. 60. Would the plan adopted in South Australia be workable here. There any parent whose children live beyond more than three miles from school may be granted a daily allowance in order to take his own children to that.particular school, the pa ent being entirely responsible ; the allowance is at the rate of 4d. a day for each child. Parents make arrangements for the conveyance, and take the whole of the responsibility ? —I think that system would be ineffective here. A farmer would not be able to do it. The better practice would be to delegate some one to do the work. The only way it could be done would be by the parents combining to get a trap. 61. Mr. Thomson.} It is in operation, now ? —I was thinking of the dairy industry in our country districts. 62. The allowance in New Zealand is a minimum of 6d. per day for each child. The parent might get 2s. 6d. per week. Do you not think it possible that many parents would undertake the conveyance of thoir own children to school if they were allowed 2s. 6d. per week for each child ? —I think it would be a precarious system to adopt. Percy George Andrew examined on oath. (No. 12.) 1. The Chairman.] What is your position ? —I am secretary of the Poverty Bay School Committees' Association, and also a member of the School Committee at Te Haka, a suburb of Gisborne. I have been on the Committee since the school was stated some two years ago. 2. The Commission will be glad to hea you on any question raised in the order of ref ?— The Sshool Committees' Association was formed in the district on account of the dissatisfaction felt with the administration of the Education Board. Our own school is a new school, which was opened last February twelve months. There was a guaranteed attendance at the outset of 156 children. The Board built a school to accommodate, roughly, 140 or 145. Twelve months after the school was opened the attendance was 220, but there was only accommodation for 140 ; so
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no one could accuse the Board of great foresight in the matter, although it was obvious it was a rising and prosperous district with a tram service, and therefore that the attendance at the school was likely to increase. We started with a headmaster and a female assistant: The headmaster had Standards I, 11, and 111 in one room, and Standards IV, V, and VI in another, and the female assistant took the primers and. preparatory classes —comprising about eighty children —in another room ; so that the headmaster had to divide His time between two rooms and six standards, and the assistant had to teach between seventy and eighty children, and at one time ninety. The Commission can draw their own conclusions as to the efficiency of the education. There are nine members on the Hawke's Bay Education Board—three for the Northern Ward, three for the Middle, and three for the Southern. As far as Gisborne is concerned, it is an isolated place, really in the Auckland Province, and the Auckland Board has a reserve there. Nevertheless, we are attached to the Hawke's Bay District, and send three members from the Gisborne end. The members from outside Gisborne would know nothing whatever as to the requirements of the Gisborne district. There is much wanting in the administration, and dissatisfaction is felt throughout our district. As an instance of their administration, right at the outset the Board sent us a nice flag to fly on special occasions. We suggested that they should subsidize us if we built a flag-pole to fly it upon, but we only got in reply a polite negative ; probably they regarded a flagstaff as a luxury. Gymnasium and gymnastic apparatus, really a part of the requisites for physical culture at the school, were required, but these also were refused to us. We wanted the school grounds asphalted. It was sandy soil, and when there were strong winds there was a considerable erosion of sand, which blew through the windows ; but we were told if we wanted asphalt we should have to dip our hands into our pockets, and then the Board might subsidize our expenditure £1 for £1. We have raised £30 or £40 during twelve months for the purpose of completing the building and making it a decent school, but here again we have had no encouragement from the Board. We consider that, with regard to new school buildings, there should be standard designs issued by the Department, and the matter should not be left to the discretion of the Board's architects. In one of our rooms the blackboards are at one end and the children are placed facing the light. The blackboard itself was of dark-green linoleum, which rapidly became of a grey colour. For my part, I should not like to have to read matter chalked on that board from some distance, as the children have had to do. The chimneys in the school would not draw, so that the windows had to be kept wide open, otherwise the room was filled with smoke : and on some occasions th rain has come in and flooded the school. The general design was not at all satisfactory. We wrote to the Board several times with regard to these defects, but the matter was not attended to. The foreman of works, I think, came out and reported, and then I believe the Inspector came along, and he also went back to Napier and reported. Then they got a price from, a local man, which, I think, was considered excessive. The northern members were instructed to inquire into the matter when they came to Gisborne, and one of them came along and reported. The surroundings generally of the school did not lend themselves to efficient teaching. Then we have had other trouble with the Board. At the outset we suggested that the school should be equipped with single desks seeing that it was a, new school, but the Board informed us that they were equipping it with the usual fittings, and they sent along the usual uncomfortable desks for the infants, and refused our application for dual or single desks. About six months after the opening of the school we had trouble with vermin, a thing which might have been obviated if our request for single desks had been acceded to. The school is not satisfactorily equipped so far as the infant department is concerned. There is nothing in the way of kindergarten materials, and for the upper classes there is very little in the way of scientific apparatus. We have also had trouble with the Board on the question of the appointment of teachers. One of our teachers, the senior female assistant, went away for twelve months. We recommended that the junior teacher be appointed to her position. But the request was ignored, and another lady was sent along to take the place of the absent teacher. She had had no previous experience in infant teaching, and yet she took charge of the infant department. We were not consulted in any way with regard to the appointment of the teacher, and yet, according to the Act, we understand that temporary appointments are only to be made for three months ; for anything further than that there should be a consultation with the Committee. We are also badly troubled owing to lack of funds. We have been working on an overdraft for as long as the bank would allow it. The capitation is ridiculously insufficient. When you have paid the caretaker's saiary and the coal bill there is very little left, and it is difficult to get the Board to grant us more than our bare allowance. It is even difficult to get a pound-for-pound subsidy upon the amounts we raise by entertainments. Personalty, I think the Boards might very well be wiped out without any loss to the education system. 1 do not see that they serve any useful function that could not be performed by the Central Department or the local Committee. As to whether we get the value for the money expended by the State on education, 1 should certainly say we are a long way from getting it. Comparing education here with education in the Old Country as I knew it from ten to twenty years ago, I should say that the education here now in the primary schools is about equal to the country-school education in England as I remember it twenty or twenty-five years ago. The children are taught in a parrot-like fashion en masse, and they get very little in the way of kindergarten instruction. Knowledge is just hammered into them at express speed from an overloaded syllabus. They get a mere smattering of everything and a good knowledge of nothing. Again, with regard to the system of education—l am speaking now about wiping out the Board —if you take the average city or suburban School Committee in Auckland, and compare the members with the Board members, anybody will admit that you will get a better body of men on a Committee like that of Devonport and Ponsonby than you will "get on the Auckland Education Board ; and therefore why the Committee's functions should be limited just to seeing that the sanitary arrangements are properly carried out, and to meeting once a month and spending 2s. 3d,
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on stationery and so on, while the Boards are given such practically overruling functions, I do not know. _Jn an ordinary way I would sooner trust to a School Committee than I would trust to a Board, because it is composed of the parents of the children who attend the school, and who have the interest of the school at heart. Yet a Committee composed of these parents is overruled and ignored and treated with contempt by a Board situated 100 or 180 miles away, the members of which probably have never seen the school or district. That seems to me a very absurd position. Indeed, it is very difficult for me to imagine a worse one. First of all, I should say the Boards could be wiped out without any loss whatever. They do not perform any really vital function in the education system of this country. The employment of Inspectors and the classification of teachers could be done by the central office in Wellington. All the waste that now takes place could be avoided by giving control to the Department, with local control by the Committee. But there is one thing I wish to say in regard to the functions of the Committee —I do not suppose Committees generally will support me — I do not think School Committees should have anything whatever to do in the appointment of a teacher or with the control of a teacher. I have taken a bit of interest in teaching, and I think there should be some means by which the Head Department could classify each grade of teachers and appoint them to positions purely on merit. In the case of equal merit I would let the appointment go by seniori y. I would let the Department in Wellington employ the Inspectors. I think it is a wrong principle that a Board should employ both teachers and Inspectors. The Inspectors cover the same ground in our district year after year for perhaps thirty or forty years. Now, Inspectors •are only human, and they get their likes and dislikes. If the Central Department or Board in Wellington was employing them you would probably have an Inspector in Southland this year and jn Auckland next year, and so on, and that Inspector would be much more likely to give an absolutely unbiassed report and judgment than an Inspector who is going the same old round year after year. Again, there is always trouble cropping up between Committees and Boards in regard to the selection of teachers. As an alternative method, you might wipe out Committees altogether, and have the whole of your education controlled by one department in Wellington, just as you control the whole of the police courts and post-offices, and so on, from Wellington. While you have a teacher, say, in a countiy district with a Committee practically over him composed perhaps of men of limited attainments, and not so cultured or sensitive as the teacher, there is always a possibility of a little friction. It is the same in regard to the selection of a teacher. A Presbyterian Committee will favour a Presbyterian teacher, and a Prohibition Committee a prohibition teacher. All these phases are apt to crop up. I think it is very degrading to have teachers going around pulling the wires in order to get a selection. I have seen that sort of thing in Auckland and Gisborne, and it is not a proper thing at all. There should be some system of grading teachers by which a teacher would put in an application for a position, and under which he would get that position or lose it on his merits. I was rather prominently connected with one case in Auckland where the teacher came into conflict, first of all with the Committee, and subsequently with the Board and the Inspectors. There was a terrible row, and the whole matter finished up with a case before the teachers' Court of Appeal. The consequence of that was we had a dreadful School Committee election, with three policemen in attendance, with a final result that the teacher was renistated and got substantial damages. At the same time, that did no good to the cause of education. It degraded the teacher in the eyes of the children, and it -caused all sorts of local trouble in the district. All that would be avoided if School Committees were wiped out and teachers were put in these positions by reason of merit and long service, and kept under the absolute control of the Department, Ido not think corruption and prejudice are altogether confined to School Committees. In my experience they are much more common to Boards than to School Committees. I think the whole system needs overhauling, and I have come to that conclusion after my experience both as a parent and as a member of a School Committee, and after comparing the systems with systems I have known and studied elsewhere. 3. Mr. Wells.] You mentioned the desks in use : is it the custom throughout your district to use these long desks ?—lt is a new district. They gave us dual desks in the standards, and long desks in the infants. 4. You spoke of trouble with unclean children : you know, of course, as a Committeeman, that the teacher and the Committee have full power to deal with anything of that kind ?—Yes, but it is such a delicate subject to handle, and so apt to bring the teacher into conflict with the parents. If there was some system by which a nurse could go around the schools and make a thorough examination it would save all that trouble. 5. I gather from your remarks that you are not in favour of Committees having any voice in the appointment of teachers ?—Provided the Boards are abolished. 6. Supposing teachers in the Board's service are graded by the Inspectors, who know them intimately and can appraise their work, and that all appointments are made from that list in order of merit, where is the objection ?—ln the first place, what are the qualifications of the Inspectors for grading ? I have known Inspectors in Auckland who have been dry-goods clerks at one time, and not trained teachers at all. What is their grading w 7 orth ? If they were competent Inspectors, I should say it would be all right. 7. Do you not think your strictures on the members of your Board are a rather severe indictment of the School Committees in regard to the choice of their men ? —That is a matter we will endeavour to remedy in the near future. . 8. The Boards are selected by the School Committees ? —Yes. But the Committees are over such a scattered area that it is only lately they have been able to come in contact with each other. 9. As to your reference to smoky chimneys and so on, I imagine that is an isolated example of faulty building ?—I do not know. That is the first school I have had anything to do with. It is a brand-new school, but it does not speak much for the Board's idea of architecture that that should happen.
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10. Your evidence goes to show an entire want of consideration for local needs on the part qf the Board ?—Yes. 11. You have expressed somewhat sweeping views in regard to education, and made comparison with the Old Country : do you mind telling us what your qualifications are to express these opinions ?—I had a puhlic elementary education in the Old Country, and also a private-college boarding education, and then I went to King's College,i n London. .1 do not think I was anything exceptional, but when I was fourteen I left the public elementary school, and before that I had taken six sciences at South Kensington. Ido not know of any here who would do that. They do not start so well here, and the system is not so thorough. I think the children are more like phonographic records than educated children. 12. Mr. Milnes gave it as his opinion this morning that our primary system compared more than favourably with the Home system, and that we are also getting good value for our money ?•—lf Mr. Milnes said that we are getting a better system than that of the London County Council, I cannot understand it. 13. Mr. Kirk.] You say, in addition to the other matters referred to, that an assistant teacher was sent to you for twelve months without your Committee being consulted ?—We were not only 7 not consulted, but our recommendation was deliberately ignored. 14. Before the appointment was made, did the Board in any way consult you ?—No. We simply wrote saying that Miss So-and-so had been granted twelve months' leave of absence, and that we recommended the next female assistant be appointed in her place, and that a supply be sent to take the place of the one who had been moved up. They replied that in the Inspector's opinion she was not suitable, and they sent a teacher who had never had an infant class in her life. 15. Was this appointment for more than three months ?—She was appointed to a position that was vacant for twelve months. 16. We may take it that your experience has been that the Boards do not exercise their functions in a sympathetic manner ?—I do not say that altogether. I say their functions are practicallyuseless ones, which could be cut right off the education system. I think the3 7 do their best according to their lights. 17. Mr. Poland.] You have been a candidate for Education Boards ?—Yes, merely with the idea of stirring things up. 18. You do not approve of the election of Education Boards bj 7 School Committees ?—No. I would like to see them, if possible, elected on the same franchise as any other local body 7. I think that would bring them more into contact with the public. 19. Do you think if you had Boards elected in that way you could dispense with the functions of the School Committees ? —I think both could be wiped out without any loss to the system—l think that honestly and sincerely. All we want is a local manager to run round occasionally. 20. Mr. Kirk.] Do you know of any schools which systematically fumigate their buildings ?— Not a fumigation. We have had a dozen epidemics since we started, and there has been a fumigation after each. Our practice is to have a strong carbolic disinfectant spread over the floor overnight after the school is closed. That is swept up in the morning, and that keeps the place pretty clean. 21. You know the Kai-iti School in the Gisborne district ?—Yes. 22. You do not know of any epidemic in connection with the school ?—I have heard of none arising out of any defect in the school itself. 23. Do you know, as a matter of fact, that the School Committee has the building itself fumigated with sulphur every term while the children are away ?—I do not know that; but I think something of that sort would be necessary in some of the older schools. 24. Mr. Davidson.] Do you think that the teaching service is less popular than other branches of the public service ? —Naturally ; it is the worst paid. 25. Is there any other reason ? —For instance, I would not be a teacher under the present system, to be pulled about by Boards, and Committees, and Inspectors at the salary they pay. 26. You think the multiplicity of masters is really largely responsible for the unpopularity of the service ?—Very often, no doubt. I have known of teachers appointed to a district practically against the public wish there. The consequence is a change of Committee makes it very interesting for that teacher. 27. Would you place the Inspectors of the Dominion under the Central Department ? —Certainly, and I would keep them wandering round the Dominion —not circulating round one small district all the time. 28. Do you know that in the Australian States that is the system adopted ? —I understand they have State Inspectors only. 29. You understand the State is divided into inspectorial districts ?—I do not know much about the districts on the other side. I will take the London County Council, for instance ; they have Inspectors, but they merely go round on what are called " surprise visits," seeing that the rolls are properly kept, and that the schools are clean ; but His Majesty's Inspectors are employed by the Education Department. The} 7 would not trust an} 7 Board Inspector, and they would not give any capitation on an examination by a Board Inspector. He is only the servant of the particular Council he is working for. 30. If School Committees were abolished, and their duties were performed b) 7 the head teacher, who would be allowed to spend the maintenance grant in attending to the sanitary arrangements and so on; do you think that would be better than the present School Committee system ?—lf you are going to wipe out Boards and Committees and start afresh, I would say Yes. 31. Do you think that would make the teaching service more popular in New Zealand ? —lt would certainly mean putting the teacher in a position of some self-respect and independence. At the present time some of the Committees seem to think they own the teacher, body and soul, in school and out of school.
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Robert Edgar Rudman examined on oath. (No. 13.) 1. The Chairman.} What is your position ? —I am principal of the Thames High School. 2. And your educational qualifications are ?—AI, M.A., and B.Sc. 3. Will you make any statement in regard to any point in the order of reference that you please ? —With reference to the expenditure on manual and technical instruction, so far as my secondary school is concerned —it is a mixed school —we get grants in connection with our science training and such things as needlework ; but so far as any influence on our work is concerned, I do not think these grants are necessary in regard to technical education. In the district I come from we have unique facilities for technical education, in that there is one of the finest schools of mines I suppose in Australasia. It is splendidly equipped, and has a splendid director —I think anybody who knows him knows that —and yet it is very badly attended. It w 7 ould appear that the residents of the Thames do not like that sort of technical education, although I suppose a boy going through that school of mines is fitted to make a much better living after his four years there than at almost any other occupation. There is also technical training to be got quite easily at the foundries at the Thames. A boy can get a very fine foundation by being apprenticed there for technical w 7 ork. On the top of that we have the Technical School, which is quite a nice building, and it seems to me that as the people who live there do not make much use of the really good technical institution there, it is almost a case of overlapping to have the Technical School at all. Of course, that Technical School is used for giving the primaryschool children instruction in cookery and woodwork, I think. I think there is a plumbing class of three or four, and a few other technical classes that are not well attended. It seems to me that the day classes in a technical school, except in the big centres, lead to overlapping with the secondary schools—l mean where the day classes of the Technical Schools are being subsidized for such things as commercial English, commercial arithmetic, and commercial geography. The word "commercial" is added to them, although I do not think that the teacher has any particular qualifications. I am not speaking in any sorrow, because they do not interfere with me in any way, but they might do so. In regard to this overlapping, I would be inclined, except in the large centres, to wipe out subsidies to technical schools for primary commercial courses, because I think, wuth the exception of typewriting, these commercial courses can be taught in the secondary schools. I believe in the continuation night classes. I am referring only to the day classes. The point has come under my notice at the Thames, and lam afraid my Board has had a little bit of correspondence with the Department on the matter. Some eighteen miles from the Thames there is a district high school. Now, rightly or wrongly, I have regarded district high schools as a sort of stopgap until a fully endowed high school could be built, or until the circumstances warrant it being built. We have an endowed High School at the Thames with a fairly well-paid staff of four. This particular district high school is staffed with two ladies. Ido not wish to draw invidious distinctions, but of course if we, as an endowed high school, are not doing much better work than they are, we should not exist. Now, the Department will not pay the railway-fares for pupils to pass this district high school to come to the Thames High School. That is in accordance with the regulations no doubt, so of course I must not blame the Department. I hold, and my Board holds I think, that the High School at the Thames should be for the whole of the district, and that if a parent wants to send his child to the High School past the district high school he should be allowed the railway fare. As it is, quite a number of parents have applied to me, and quite a number of parents in the place where this district high school is situated are sending their children to the Thames High School, and are themselves paying the fares, the Department having refused to do so. They, of course, come in as junior free pupils. I may say that the senior free pupils have their fares paid because the Department says they cannot get that particular instruction at the district high school. I merely mention this as a matter that may be worthy of attention. I think where there is a properly endowed and staffed secondary school, and where children wish to attend that school, they should not be debarred from doing so by reason of the railway fare. There is another instance of overlapping which I think perhaps most of us secondary-school teachers have come across. There are some primary-school men —I do not think lam drawing invidious distinctions between the two —who like to keep their Sixth Standard proficiency pupils on for another year. In some cases I believe it is with the idea of gaining a scholarship, in other cases they say they can do better for them. They say they are not fit to go on to the secondary school, although the Inspector has given them a proficiency certificate. I find that a pupil who is kept like this is a year behind when he comes to us, and is a year behind all the rest of his school life. I think he gets the heart taken out of him by going over the ground, again. So far as the finance of High School Boards is concerned, Ido not think our Board is in any particular difficulty. We have an income from endowments and we have an income from the Department for free-place pupils, and I think the Board spends it as wisely as it can. With regard to agricultural instruction or rural courses, so far as the Thames High School is concerned, as I have said, there is no demand on the part of the parents of pupils to make mining experts or engineering experts of their sons. There is a great demand to take up what I suppose one might call the gram-mar-school course, the old-fashioned secondary-school course, with a view to the boy entering the Civil Service —that is what they are very keen on —or to enter a profession ; or, if he fails in this, to make a schoolmaster of him. In regard to this question of Latin, you would be surprised at the number of parents who say to me —of course the Department makes Latin an alternative subject, and rightly so in my opinion—that they want their boys to take Latin or commercial work. They say, "I want my boy to go in for the Civil Service"; and I reply, "Yes, but he will not need Latin for that." Then lam asked, " Suppose he is fairly successful, and wants to become a lawyer " ; and I reply, "He will need Latin for that" ; and then lam told to let him have Latin right away. Of course, the high schools have not a general syllabus like the primary schools, but there is no doubt
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that the public examinations make a syllabus for us. There is not only the Junior Civil Service, but the and University Scholarship Examinations. We must not depart too far from these, and: we must not be accused of cramming if we follow this syllabus. We have the pupils for a certain time, and we must keep them in that narrow path which leads up to these examinations. So far as my school is concerned, in connection with agricultural instruction, it is in a non-farming district, and I would not introduce agriculture on any account whatever. Quite apart from the expense of the ground for experiments, I think you want expert agriculturists to carry out the training. It is no use an ordinary school-teacher trying" to do it; and then there is the fact that perhaps only 10 per cent, of the children you are teaching agriculture to will take up agriculture. I think that is a waste of school time. I think that the physical-measurement course outlined by the Department is an excellent one, with a chemistry course to follow. It has been really the old-fashioned routine in the secondary schools, but 1 do not think any of the newer schemes have been an improvement on it, because you may have a boy going in for mining or agriculture, and his chemistry and physical measurements will help him in either of these things, but an agricultural training will only help, perhaps, the 10 per cent. That is my idea. In my own district Ido not think agriculture is advisable at all. It might pay to have an agricultural course in a place like Palmerston North, but I do not think it would be successful in regard to small-staffed schools and town schools generally. I understand that the Director of the Lincoln Agricultural College and also a rather experienced agricultural instructor —a man from the west of Scotland—after twelve months' trial, both said they considered that an agricultural course as an adjunct to secondary-school training was impracticable. I really think, if boys are going in for agriculture, if they have two years as junior free-place pupils in a secondary school, they should then go on to some other institution of a more technical description, and there learn agriculture. It perhaps need not be such a big institution as Lincoln, but there should be special schools for agriculture. Of course the secondary schools could do a good deal by having what they call in America junior naturalist clubs and field clubs. In America the master who takes, say, a particular interest in nature-study will get ten or twelve boys together, and go out and study these things in the open, but not as a regular course of instruction. As to the ninth order of reference —" In what respects school instruction can be improved and made of more practical value in equipping pupils for their future careers " -—I notice there is a new syllabus for certain subjects in the Junior Civil Service Examination, and also new regulations in regard to teachers' certificates, and also a new regulation insisting on practicalscience certificates for any one who is being trained up to the New- Zealand University. I think that is a splendid move. I think the Department might go a step further with regard to the teachers. The previous witness spoke about the teachers not being able to get their training. There are a number of pupils going through the secondary schools, and they have a course of chemistry, and keep note books. I think if the note-books were duly certified to, the Department might find it useful to accept these certified note-books as proof of a practical course having been carried out. If that were done, the pupils in the secondary schools would regard these note-books as very valuable things to take away from the schools. In regard to military training, I. am a cadet enthusiast myself, and I have done a great deal of cadet work, but I think military training in our schools is apt to overshadow the really good physical training. It is only, I think, in the big boarding-schools of New Zealand, such as Nelson, Waitaki, or Wellington Colleges, that there is really good gymnastic and physical training being carried on. I think we want a more national system for building up the physique by means of gymnasiums and Swedish drill. It is a matter of administration, of course, but I think it might be possible to have male and female physical instructors to go about from school to school, and I think that would be more valuable than woodwork instructors. 4. Are you aware that is carried out in some districts ?—I did not know that. I do not think that the ordinary teacher knows enough about physical training to train girls in deep breathing and thing's of that kind —it wants an expert. I also think the syllabus is overloaded. Some ten weeks ago I was speaking to the late Mr. McGowan, who used to get a grip of things pretty well. We were talking about strikes, and he said we would never stop strikes until we started teaching the pupils some elementary economics in every school in New Zealand. He said we should teach them about the value of wages, and so on. I merely repeat that opinion because Mr. McGowan was a man who was listened to with attention, and he seemed to think that an elementary knowledge of economics imparted in the schools would have some little effect in the next generation on the labour question. With regard to scholarships, I think there is no doubt that some schools, by undertaking special outside coaching for scholarships, get their candidates in ahead of more clever pupils. I know in my own case, pupils come to me with scholarships who are not always the best of their year —they are amongst the best, but some others very often beat them. Some teachers put in a great deal of extra time for coaching. I also want to refer to this matter of accrediting. The Bducation Department has made a start in accrediting. It may not be known to everybody that there are various ways for the junior free-place holder to become a senior free-place holder. One method is by examination, and another method is on the recommendation of the headmaster. That is, I think lam right in saying, practically the accrediting system, and that seemed very good in relieving the strain on the pupils from examination ; but I find the Department generally examines our pupils after we accredit them. I may say the Department does not interfere with our classification ; the Department has been very kind to us, and in my two years as head I have not had any of my pupils disqualified. I suppose the Department does this examining to satisfy itself that we are doing our work of recommending properly, but the pupil undergoes the strain of sitting for the examination which he is supposed to have escaped by reason of this system of accrediting. 5. Mr. Wells? You spoke about high schools and district high schools : In the Thames district there is the High School at the Thames, and district high schools at Paeroa, Te Aroha and Waihi ? — Yes.
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6. Do you think that these might be centralized, and one good high school set up at a convenient centre, and the children carried by rail ?—As the trains run at present all the Paeroa children could " attend the Thames High School, but of course if you want a central place for the three districtjhigh schools it would be Paeroa. Ido not think the train arrangements suit Waihi or Te Aroha. 7. "Still, a centralization such as that is worth thinking about ? —I think so. I know we have something like a quarter of our pupils coming to us by train- —some of them coming from Karangahake. 8. It seems to stand to reason that if four high schools could be centralized you could have one really good efficient school under the control of a first-class man with "a first-class staff ? —I think so. Of course, we must take this into account: that it might not be good for the health of some of the pupils, who would have to get up early and travel further. That might be an objection. I have a few pupils from farms, but when they get to me they are so sick of cows and potatoes that they never want to look them in the face again. 9. In the town schools some years ago, before manual work was started, the great object of our Standard VI boys was to get into an office ?—Yes. 10. With the introduction of manual work that ambition has almost disappeared, and speaking from my own experience, I find that there is a far greater tendency for boys to go into trades ? —Yes. 11. Do you think if boys in a school had a course in agriculture it might give them a bent towards agriculture rather than to law or Civil Service, or teaching as a last resort ?—lt might, but I do not think they would go to the school. Their parents have made up their minds that they are to go to certain work. 12. Mr. Kirk.] You agree with the remark passed by the late Mr. McGowan, that elementary economics should be taught in the schools ?—lt seems to me it might bring a right understanding in these matters, but whether you could squeeze it into your already overloaded syllabus I do not know. I mention the remark for what it might be worth. 13. You believe that a different syllabus, including the teaching of elementary economics, for instance, might perhaps promote a better outlook so far as the labour problem is concerned, and that therefore this educational enlightenment is desirable ? —I think it would. In this matter I have been struck at the ignorance there seems to be amongst full-grown men as to what the raising of wages really entails. They seem to overlook the fact that when wages are raised the cost of living is raised, and they are apt to confound the gross gain with the net gain. 14. Would it be a move in the right direction to make attendance compulsory at the continuation classes, even for those taking up manual labour ?—I do not think that after a certain age attendance at any class should be made compulsory. 15. How otherwise are you to obtain that enlightenment which is necessary ? —When I spoke of that I thought that perhaps a series of six or eight lessons, prepared by a man like Dr. Hight, of Canterbury, or Mr. C. Mann, who knew his subject, should be circulated in all the schools of New Zealand. 16. Up to what age : you surely would not circulate them in the primary or secondary schools ? —I think so. I would not make a subject of it, because there is no room. 17. Do you think the majority of the children would read it through ? —The teachers might read it to them, and say something about it, in the form of ten-minute lessons, or something of that kind. 18. In what relation to life, in your opinion, does the study of the classics stand ? —Personally, my specialty is science and mathematics, but lam very glad I learned some Latin. I find it helps me to an understanding of all literature. I often come across some abstruse scientific term, and lam able to understand it through its Latin or Greek derivation. I think if we only spent a couple of years at the classics you would get some culture from it that you would afterwards be thankful for. Ido not believe in making it compulsory. 19. You do think it is desirable, where possible, that a study of the classics should be encouraged. ? —Yes. I have been surprised at the number of parents in the Thames Goldfields district who come to me and say they want their boys to have Latin. 20. Is there a danger, considering the subjects being put into our syllabus, of the study of classics being removed further and further from our students ? —I do not think so. I think in all the secondary schools I have been in there was always a classical master on the staff, and as a rule the cleverest pupils are pretty well made to take classics. Those are the only pupils in my little school I bring any pressure to bear on. 21. Have you found that, notwithstanding such advice, parents will write to you and say, " I want my boy to take shorthand or typewriting instead " ? —Yes, I have found it so in many cases. 22. In your opinion, is the door too widely open at the present time for boys and girls to discriminate at an early age as to .what subjects they will choose ?—I do not think the boys and girls do discriminate. I think it is principally determined by the examination they want to go in for later on. 23. Can they themselves at an early age discriminate even as to the examination which they desire to go in for ? For instance, my great ambition was to be a farmer, and I went on the land, and having spent a few weeks there I found I was not suited for it, but I had such a good grounding in what was necessary to pass the Matriculation Examination that it was not very hard for me to pass the necessary examinations, with the result that I was at twenty-two years of age in actual practice as a lawyer. That is why lam so keen to see whether the same course which I benefited from is still open to boys as it was to me. Suppose I had at that early age said I wanted to learn something to do with dairying, would I or would I not have been neglecting other things which must have been of service to me in the vocation I ultimately chose ? —I will take agriculture and Latin. I think if you neglect Latin for the three years you would probably never get through the preliminary law examination, whereas, if you neglected agriculture, you could pick that up later on by going on a farm, because you could pick up in eight months or so what you have neglected in the three or four years previously.
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24. Does that not seem to bear out the contention that these vocational classes should be left until after the secondary-school period is ended ? —I think so. — 25. Mr. Poland.] I understood you to say you believed that the teaching of elementary economics in the schools would ultimately lead to employers giving greater consideration to the claims of workers, and so on, -and thus prevent strikes ? —I did not quite say that. What I thought was that possibly -the general mass of the workers might have more solid ideas in regard to wages and strikes if they had had something to do with these subjects in their school days. 26. You do not think employers should have a little more knowledge of elementary economics ?— I think everybody should, because you do not know who is going to be an employer twenty years hence. You see a meeting of labourers, and the only man at it who seems to have any ideas is the strike leader, and he says " strike," and they strike. If they knew something of economics, no doubt they would argue the matter out. 27. There are three district high schools within a short radius of the Thames, and you recognize that that shows a keen desire on the part of the inhabitants of that district for the best possible education for their children ?—Yes. 28. And you also think that in order that parents should have that best possible education for their children there should be no hindrance put in the way of attending the Thames High School as is now the case, by compelling them to pay railway fares ?—That is so. 29. If a parent thinks his boy, after obtaining a proficiency certificate, is going to get a better education at the Thames High School than he will get at either of these three other places, you think he should have every facility given to the child to attend that school ? —Yes. I think the Thames High School was meant to benefit as large a district as possible. 30. Mr. Thomson.] Will you state what subjects could be eliminated from the primary-school syllabus, which you think is overloaded ?—lt is some years since I have been in touch with a primaryschool syllabus, and I would not like to express an opinion. I said, in speaking of economics, they probably could not be taught, as I understood the primary-school syllabus was already overloaded. 31. Mr. Davidson.] What is the average attendance at your school ?—lOO. 32. And you have four teachers ?—Yes. 33. You are satisfied with the financial arrangements ?—Quite satisfied. 34. You disagree with the gentleman who thought that the minimum capitation for free pupils is insufficient ?—Yes, I think we are not very strongly endowed, but we seem to pay our way very well. Whenever I ask for apparatus my Board are able to give it to me, and they give our staff rises, and that sort of thing. 35. You referred to the Technical School at the Thames, and said there was considerable overlapping between that school and yours: are there day classes at the Technical School? —They try to have day classes. Ido not say there is actual overlapping, but there might easily be overlapping if the Techincal School was supported. 36. There are no day classes ? —There are some day classes. There is a commercial course there— they take it because of the shorthand and typewriting; but of course they have to take other subjects, such as arithmetic, geography, and so on, in order to qualify for the manual and technical grant for the complete course. 37. There are really day classes in connection with the Thames Technical School ?—Yes. 38. And in these classes they teach subjects that might be taught in your school ?—Yes. 39. And eighteen miles from the Thames there is a district high school with two ladies on the staff. Can you tell me the average attendance in the high school department in that district high school ? —I cannot say, but I think fifty. 40. You remarked that in the secondary schools there is no general syllabus : would you have a general syllabus for the secondary schools of New Zealand in which certain subjects must be taken up" by all pupils and certain subjects could be optional ?—No ; because I think too much depends on the staffing. I think the examinations confine us to certain subjects as main lines. 41. And if you have plenty of staff to take side courses you can do so ?—ln a small school like mine you cannot have too many side courses. 42. Are you aware that in the roost recently drafted course of study in some American secondary schools there are three definite courses —namely, a classical or English course, a commercial course, and a vocational course —and that in each of these three courses certain subjects are common and compulsory and certain subjects are optional ? Do you think it would be a w 7 ise thing to have a general course laid dow 7 n for the secondary schools of New Zealand on these lines ? —I think it would if there was plenty of elasticity in it. 43. Would you be in favour of the control of the primary, secondary, and technical education being under one body in each educational district ? —No. 44. What is your reason for objecting to that ? —I have worked under three Boards of Governors —Napier, Wellington, and Thames—and I find it is always their aim to do the best with their money. If they get a man that they consider useful in their school they help him by raising his salary, and so on ; and it seems to me that each of these little institutions, self-governing and self-financing, has worked very well. 45. Do you not think they would work equally well if within the Education Boards there were special committees to control these schools ? —I am afraid that a certain amount of that red tape my predecessor spoke of might be apt to creep in. Ido not think it is called for. 46. You do not think our education system should be co-ordinated ? —I think that it could be co-ordinated by a decree of the Central Department,
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47. Would you have the whole system under the control of the Central Department ? —I take it the co-ordination would refer to the teaching and not to the finance. Ido not believe in a Dominion scale of salaries for secondary-school teachers. 48. -Why not ?—lt is so difficult to judge them. I will take a big boarding-school, for instance. ■There may be a teacher who is a particularly good man for that school, because he is a good footballer or gymnast, and can organize the boys well. There may be another man who is particularly desirable for the sixth form because he has specialized in some subject, but possibly his discipline is not the best thing in the world. Ido not, however, know how you are going to bring these different people in the high schools on to anything like a uniform scale of salaries. 49. Do not the same difficulties exist in connection with the primary schools ?—I do not think so. 50. Mr. Hogben.] Have you ever been in any school where there was an agricultural course ? — No. 51. You have not seen an agricultural course being taken in a school ?—No. 52. Have you ever been in America, and seen an agricultural course taken in high schools there ? —No. 53. Then, you are speaking from your general impression ? —Yes, and from reading. 54. Do you think there is any difference in scientific principle in finding the specific gravity of milk or the specific gravity of sulphuric acid ?—None whatever. 55. So that so far as finding the one in an agricultural course and the one in a physical-science course is concerned, they are in that respect equally good ? —Yes. 56. Have you looked through the agricultural-science course ? —Yes. 57. Does that not all the way keep close in touch with scientific method ? —Yes. 58. That would train in scientific method if properly taught in a practical way ? —Yes, with a big leaning to the agricultural side, whereas the physical-measurements course, which treats with the same subject is not only applied to agricultural but to other branches as well. 59. Is not the main thing to get into the best habit of mind in accordance with scientific method ? —Yes. 60. What difference does it make if the tests used are of the same kind whether they are going to influence his future life or not ?—The only difference I think that the agricultural course gives. 61. Would it not be just as good for a boy's training in scientific method if the subject is elementary agriculture as if the subject is elementary physical measurements ?—No, I look upon agriculture as more particular than elementary physical measurements. 62. The Chairman.] You are quite satisfied the commercial course as taught in the Technical School in the Thames could be overtaken by your school ? —Yes. When I applied to have some of my children sent along to make use of the typewriters at the Technical School they said they could not take them for typewriting alone—that they must take the full course. 63. And ostensibly that full course is used to entitle them to the grant from the Department ? — Yes. Edmund Campbell Purdie, examined on oath. (No. 13.) 1. [The Chairman.] What are your educational qualifications ? —I hold a D certificate. I have been a teacher in all varieties of primary schools ; I taught for five years in the secondary schools ; I was an Inspector for eight years ; and I was a member of the Auckland Education Board for two years. I am not occupying any scholastic position at present. 2. I understand that you wish to address us in regard to certain points ; and with regard to other points, you will put them in writing on returning home, have them attested by a Justice of the Peace, and return them to the Commission ? —That is so. I wish first to speak with regard to a scheme for the improvement of the education system which I brought before the Inspectors' Conference nine years ago. I was then urged by the Inspectors present to hold the matter over for three years, in order that they mio-ht have an opportunity of discussing the matter, and I agreed to do so. Three years subsequently the Inspectors' Conference, by a very large vote, approved my scheme. I also brought the matter before a variety of education authorities —the Auckland Branch of the Educational Institute, the Whangarei Branch of the Institute, and the Assistant Masters in Auckland. Without any exception they indorsed the principle of my scheme as being thoroughly sound. All that I asked them to do was to affirm the principle. Ido not suggest that every detail is correct. To me it seems a matter of very great importance. At the time I brought the matter before the Inspectors' Conference in Wellington nearly every leading newspaper in New Zealand took it up, and in no instance that I am aware of did any newspaper oppose the principle underlying the memorandum I propose to read. I may say that I submitted the memorandum to the Auckland Education Board, who referred it to the Education Department, but the Department did not, as far as I know, take any action in regard to it, The matter was brought up by Mr. Stallworthy in the House of Representatives, and the Minister of Education (the Hon. George Fowlds) said that while he was not prepared to accept the recommendation contained in my memorandum, he was to some extent favourable. I mention these matters to show that the principle received the almost universal approval of laymen, as witnessed by their newspapers, and of education authorities throughout the country. I addressed the memorandum to Mr. Petrie, who was then Chief Inspector of Schools for Auckland District, I being at the time in charge of the northern district, and Mr. Petrie forwarded it to the Board. I consider that the country which first adopts the scheme of organization such as I propose will make an immediate advance in primary education. That is why I wish to give evidence in regard to it. it seems to me that it will make for both economy and efficiency in the carrying-on of our education system. The memorandum in connection with it is as follows :—
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" Auckland, 20th June, 1905.—The Chief Inspector of Schools, Auckland.—Sir,—l have the honour to request your attention to a scheme for the better organization and teaching of the pupils in Standards IV, V, and VI of the primary schools in large centres of population. The chief difficulty met with by teachers of the higher classes in large schools is not so much the largeness of their classes, as "the difference in mental attainment and mental capacity of the pupils nominally in each class. Generally speaking, each large class contains at least three main subdivisions, consisting severally of the dull, the mediocre, and the bright. These children, differing widely, as I have indicated, in mental attainment and capacity, have the one objective. The curriculum of each class seems to have been based upon the absurd assumption that children are about equally equipped in mental capacity, and that they progress at about the same rate. The result is, in my opinion, that the dull are made stupid, the bright become somewhat lazy, and the mediocre are well taught. And under the system at present prevailing no blame can be attached to any one. The teachers work hard and skilfully, but the conditions under which they are working make it impossible that the best can be made of the innate faculty of every child. From a national point of view, this is lamentable. It is especially desirable that the best possible should be made of every bright child. This, under present conditions is but rarely attempted, and, indeed, cannot be done at all. I therefore advocate a change in the conditions. Omitting Devonport and Northcote Schools (because of the intervening waterway), there are at present in the city and suburban schools (according to last quarter's returns) 656 pupils, taught by nineteen teachers in nineteen schools ; about 900 in S5, taught by twenty-three teachers in nineteen schools ; and about 1,200 in S4, taught by twenty-four teachers in nineteen schools. There are thus in the upper standards about 2,850 pupils, taught in nineteen schools by sixty-six teachers—an average of about forty-four pupils to every teacher. The numbers actually taught by each of the various teachers ranges from fifty-five to thirty-nine in S6, from sixty-nine to thirty-two in S5, and from seventy-four to thirty-three in S4. (Note. —I have included in the total in every standard the pupils who are grouped in S4, S5, and S6, or in S5 and S6 for teaching purposes, but have not done so in the varying numbers taught by one teacher of grouped classes. In any such case the evil to which lam drawing attention is accentuated, not diminished, by the grouping.) Omitting for a moment the injustice to the pupils by such varying range, it would seem that some teachers are working under much more onerous conditions than others. Remuneration by no means coincides with onerousness of conditions. In 1904, for teaching sixty-five pupils in S4 one teacher received £235. In another school in the same year one assistant and pupil-teacher, for teaching ninety-four pupils, received between them £160 ; in the same year one teacher with vicarious assistance taught eighty-six pupils in S4 for £120. Anomalies such as these are inseparable from present conditions. At the risk of repetition, I should like to emphasize the fact that the condition that most injuriously affects teaching in our large schools is the difficulty of correctly grading the pupils. The remedy is clear :it is, however, exceedingly difficult to carry into operation. The pupils of S4, S5, and S6 are not sufficiently concentrated. Were they concentrated in, say, three centres there would be in each an average of 220 in S6, of 300 in S5, and of 400 in S4. Five teachers could then teach S6 in each school, six could teach S5, and seven could teach S4. This would result in an economy of twelve teachers. Were this done, it is manifested that the grading of pupils could be so uniform (having regard to attainments and capacity) that progress would be made much more rapid and sound than it is now. The dull boy now has a weary life. He is constantly being urged beyond his powers ; he is too often the subject of ' odious ' comparisons with his brighter classmates ; with the result that he loses effort—he accepts his dullness, and loses confidence in himself. The bright boy, on the other hand, is unduly elated. He can overtake the work with the greatest ease. The constant iteration of the work rendered necessary by the presence of his duller classmate wearies him. He too often becomes conceited or lazy, or both. It is a fact that in the subsequent battle for life the bright boy is often worsted. Is it not worth while, at least, to consider whether his easy school career is not to some extent the cause ? Place him in a class where all are bright —where all must use their best endeavour —and he will better find his level and better realize that there are in the world others besides himself with faculty for learning and for thinking. He will do much better work. It is my conviction that he could do at least twice as much as he now does. The energy thus released and, as it were, given scope might be devoted to incursions into other realms of knowledge. Again, the dull child would progress upon sounder lines. He need not be urged beyond his powers. If advisable, he need not be required to undertake the study of all the subjects specified in the syllabus. Subjects that appealed to him—woodwork, for instance—might receive greater prominence. He might thus be taught to believe in himself —a lesson more valuable than all the books can teach. He might learn, too, that ability does not lie solely in the power to assimilate the written word, but that the boy who can do things is as likely to succeed as the scholar in abstractions. And so varying through the different grades, (b.) The teacher's work would be much more agreeable than it is now. It may be thought that the teacher of a ' dull' class would have an unhappy existence. That is by no means the case. It is the effort to bring into one objective children of varying attainments and capacity that renders the teacher's life burdensome. If a teacher had to teach only pupils of approximately uniform attainments and capacity, no matter whether they were dull or bright, his work would be pleasant and not too onerous, (c.) A loss of time at present accrues from pupils attending manualtraining schools. Such would not occur if the pupils were centralized as herein indicated, (d.) Better provision could be made for the teaching of science. The equipment of laboratories for three schools would not unduly strain the Board's finance ; the equipment of nineteen would do so. Without a laboratory the teaching of science is little better than farcical, (c.) By the adoption of the scheme I herein suggest, a more healthy spirit of effort than now obtains would be created. No ordinary boy of eleven, for instance, would be satisfied to attend a junior school when he saw another of the same age going to a senior. (/.) The scheme would tend to economy. At present the actual cost of teaching
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656 pupils in S6 is £3,663 ; of 900 pupils in S5, £3,875 ; of 1,200 in S4, £3,685 : a total of £10,413. This does not include the proportion of the headmaster's salary as general supervisor. For such add, ""say, £1,500 —a low estimate—and the total is £11,913. If the teachers were paid according to scale as under, there would be a saving of £2,300 per annum from which to pay the salaries of the head.masters and of the specialists required. The average salary of each teacher would thus be much higher than it is now": (g.) Suggested scale : S6 —Three teachers at £250 each per annum, three at £225 each per annum, three at £200 each per annum, three at £175 each per annum, three at £150 each per annum : total, £3,000. S5 —Three teachers at £220 each, per annum, three at £200 each per annum, three at £180 each per annum, three at £160 each per annum, three at £150 each per annum, three at £14-0 each per annum : total, £3,150. S4 —Three teachers at £210 each per annum, three at £190 each per annum, three at £170 each per annum, three at £160 each per annum, three at £150 each per annum, three at £140 each per annum, three at £130 each per annum : total, £3,450. I think no saving in money ought to be made. The gain should be expended in giving higher salaries than those suggested. (h.) It would be possible to place a child in each subject in the class for which he is fit. (*'.) The sites of the three present manual schools might be adopted, (j.) Some of the prizes in the professions of teaching might thereby be within the grasp of our lady teachers, (k.) Better specialization in drawing, in science, in drill, and in technical work might be provided for. (I.) A great improvement in the attitude of the pupils and of the teachers —a most important matter —might be expected, (m.) Better provision might be made for school libraries, (w.) Teachers could be more easily placed in positions for which they are best suited, (o.) Distance is not really an objection. No child would have to travel more than about two miles (except by rail), very few more than a mile and a half, and not many more than a mile. Generally I believe that by adopting the scheme herein briefly outlined —a scheme which does not, so far as I am aware yet obtain in any country —education would gain incalculably, justice might be done to all our pupils, greater advantage might be taken of our manual-training schools, the teaching of science might be greatly improved, the spirit of healthy rivalry and of effort might be augmented, the pupils' and the teacher's life might be rendered more bright, and fruitful economy might be observed, satisfactory equipment of schools might be rendered possible. I cannot think oi any objection to the scheme herein outlined that cannot be satisfactorily met. lam satisfied that the country that first applies to its schools the principles herein enunciated will rapidly take a foremost place among educated races. lam aware that to carry into operation the scheme herein outlined legislation would be necessary. The amounts quoted in section (/) hereof are subject to slight fluctuations, but are sufficiently constant to form the basis of an argument. Although I have, for convenience' sake, advocated three schools, I believe that two would be enough, and that by the adoption of two the principle of accurate grading could be materially improved. I hope that you will see your way clear to, at least, commend the principle underlying the scheme I have herein outlined. —I have, &c, E. C. Purdie, Inspector of Schools." And the following is the correspondence : — " Education Board, Auckland, 24th July, 1905. —The Secretary, Auckland Education Board. — Sir, —I have the honour to transmit, for perusal by the Board, the accompanying letter addressed to me by Mr. Inspector Purdie. There is considerable force in much of what Mr. Purdie urges, but, with the law relating to education standing as it does, the organization he recommends is impracticable. —Yours, &c, D. Petrie, M.L., Chief Inspector." " Education Department, Wellington, 17th August, 1905. —The Secretary, Auckland. —Subject: Concentration of pupils in Standards IV, V, and VI. —I have to acknowledge the receipt of your letter dated the 11th August, 1905, with reference to the subject named above. The matter will receive attention. —F. K. de Castro, Secretary." " Whangarei Branch, 23rd August, 1905. —(Telegram.) —Whangarei Branch Institute approves Inspector Purdie's concentration-of-pupils scheme. —Secretary." " Mary Street, Thames, 21st August, 1905. —The Secretary, Board of Education, Auckland. — Dear Sir, —I am instructed by the Thames Branch of the Auckland District Educational Institute to thank the Board of Education for the opportunity afforded for expressing their views on Mr. Purdie's scheme for the concentration of Standards IV, V, and VI pupils. The branch, after considerable discussion unanimously agreed to the following resolutions : ' That the scheme has much to commend itself from an educational standpoint. *" ' That considerable opposition may be anticipated from Committees, as representing parents, making it exceedingly unlikely that the necessary legislation will be forthcoming.' ' That, in the absence of details of proposed legislation, it is doubtful whether the scheme will not lessen the inducements to those entering the profession, and thereby act prejudicially to the best interests of education.' —I have, &c, S. H. Ferguson, Honorary Secretary, Thames Branch." " Education Institute, Whangarei, 22nd August, 1905. — Re Inspector Purdie's concentration scheme. —The Secretary, Education Board, Auckland.—Sir, —I am directed to state that Mr. Purdie's concentration-of-pupils scheme was discussed at the last meeting of the Whangarei Branch of the A.D.E.1., and that consequent upon the discussion this branch has the honour to heartily support the suggestions made by Mr. Purdie. —I have, &c, W- H. Crawford, Secretary, Whangarei Branch." " Education Department, Wellington, 26th September, 1905. —The Secretary, Education Board, Auckland. —With further reference to your memorandum of the 11th August, and to the copy of a report from Inspector Purdie regarding the concentration of pupils of Standards IV, V, • and VI in city and suburban schools, I would suggest that the subject is one that Mr. Purdie might bring up at the next Conference of Inspectors. The Inspectors could afterwards advise their several Boards.—G. Hogben, Inspector-General of Schools." " Parnell School, Auckland, 29th September, 1905. —Sir, —I have the honour to acknowledge the recepit of your letter of 11th August, inviting the Institute to express its opinion on Inspector
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Purdie' suggestions for the concentration of pupils of Standards IV, V, and VI in city and suburban schools. The matter was discussed at the quarterly meeting to-day, when it was decided—' That the Auckland District Institute of the N.Z.E.I. approves of the principle embodied in Inspector Purdie's proposals for the grouping of Standards IV, V, and VI in separate schools, and considers that the practical value of the scheme is worthy of being tested by the Board.'—l have, &c, Colin R. Munro, Secretary. —The Secretary, Education Board, Auckland." I invited various educational bodies to express as fully and clearly as possible any objection they might have to the principle enunciated in this memorandum, and in no case was any criticism of a hostile nature offered. It was, however, pointed out that as the law stands it was impracticable to put the scheme into operation. I quite agree with that view, but I deny altogether that that is any criticism of the scheme or the principle underlying it. I take it that one of the functions of this Commission is the consideration of the schemes for improvement of education such as I have submitted, and that if this scheme commends itself to the Commission they will advise that it be embodied and translated into law. I was a school-teacher for some thirty years, and I feel very strongly that the gravest injustice is being done to-day to the bright children of the community, and also that a large number of the children who are not perhaps of the brightest are being made less bright than they initially were. As educators, I take it that we should all do our utmost to make the most of the latent intellect of the children. I think that in this country, as in all countries, one of the saddest of spectacles is the enormous waste of intellectual power which is going on, and that a scheme such as I have devised would in the large centres of population go a long way towards decreasing the waste of intellectual power. There are other matters that I would have liked to discuss, but I will reserve those for my written communication to the Commission. As I have stated, I was an Inspector of Schools for many years, and I think that the work of the Inspectors might be made more effective in some directions without any added cost to the State. 3. Will you state in what direction ?—I think each Inspector should be placed in. definite charge of a district. That system obtains in the Auckland District at the present time. But while he is in nominal charge of the district he is not, and I think no Inspector in New Zealand is made responsible for his district. What I mean is this : Suppose that when I was in charge of the northern district the Department had had a staff of supervisory Inspectors, men in the highest rank of profession, and those men had gone into my district and held not this, that, or the other teacher, but myself responsible for the state of the district, then, I maintain, the schools in the out-district would be more efficient than they are to-day. I merely put that forward as a tentative suggestion—that by organizing the inspectorate the responsibility for the condition of the district would be thrown upon the Inspector. His responsibility will then radiate to the teacher, and he will feel it incumbent upon him to feel that the teaching is efficient. I would like to say, and say with a very great deal of diffidence, that when I went into one particular district I found that only one large school was being efficiently conducted. Inspectors had gone through that district for twenty years, and, in my opinion, the absence of responsibility on their part had led to that condition of affairs. If necessary, I can prove that what I am stating on this point is correct. It took me five years' work in that district to dispossess five of the largest schools of the incompetent teachers they had. That state of affairs should not obtain, and, I maintain, would not obtain if .definite responsibility of the district were placed upon the Inspector. 4. You say that those five teachers were, in your opinion, inefficient ? —Quite so. That was indicated by the Board's action in moving them at my suggestion later on. 5. Mr. Pirani.] Would not your last suggestion be almost impracticable, unless the Inspector had power to remove inefficient teachers ?—lt would ; but I would get over that difficulty. The Inspector would have his safeguard in this way :He would report definitely and distinctly to the Board. If he were in charge of the district, he would go to the inefficiently conducted school four or five times. Two visits a year are nonsensical. He would do his utmost as a human quantity to help another human quantity to make a school efficient. If he found that the teacher could not come up to the mark, he would report to the Board in definite and distinct terms. The onus would then rest upon the Board to carry out his idea as indicated in his report. If the Board did not adopt his recommendation, and one of the staff of supervising Inspectors came into the district and pronounced the school inefficient, the Inspector would simply say, " The onus is off my shoulders. I have reported to the Board in distinct terms that the school is inefficient, and the Board has done nothing." 6. Would it not be a rather heavy task for the Inspector from Wellington to judge the school by one visit ?—No. I think an Inspector who knows his business can get a very fair idea of the state of a school in a very short time ; and if he found it necessary to make further examination to confirm his judgment, he could stay a day or two in the district and make certain. Any competent schoolmaster will go into a school, and by forming his opinion of its tone, and seeing a little of the work, will in an hour or two get a very fair idea of the condition of the school. 7. But if it means dismissal of a teacher, would it not be necessary to have absolute proof of his inefficiency % —That is so. Well, he can get absolute proof by submitting work to the scholars. Of course, the decision would rest with the supervising Inspector, and I take it that it would very rarely happen that the subordinate Inspector would not accept the verdict of his senior. 8. But would that evidence be sufficient to satisfy a teachers' court of appeal ? —lf it is not, there should be remedial legislation. Personally, I think that while the teachers' court of appeal has been a valuable court both for teachers and pupils, there are many directions in which it could be modified. For instance, I think that if a teacher in a country district is absolutely a persona non grata it is ridiculous that simply to conserve his private rights the children of the district should suffer. The Board should have the right to transfer him under such conditions.
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9. The Chairman.] On whose recommendation ? — I think, on the Inspector's recommendation. If you had grades of Inspectors, the juniors could be employed in the remote country districts. When in the north I had charge of ninety schools, which I think was an absurdly large number. If you had junior Inspectors at £300 a year, able young men, who would take charge of a district and remain in it for a year or two, putting their best work into it and qualifying for £350 in a better district, it would be a good idea. But you want more Inspectors, and want to give them fifty schools each, not ninety. 10. Mr. Pirani.] Do you not think that such a scheme would involve an enormous increase in the number of Inspectors I —l think it would. But if you had the standards grpuped in the way I suggest, you could place competent assistants in charge of the schools, with one head teacher in control of a group of, say, four or five schools. That head teacher would then perform practically the functions of an Inspector. The fetish of a headmaster for every school under such conditions wants to be waved away. I think we have one of the most magnificent systems of education in the world, but Ido think it requires organizing from top to bottom, and wants to absolutely change its obsolete method of organization. 11. Do you think it would assist in making teachers more competent if in the remote parts of the district there were special schools —say, one- or two-teacher schools —where other teachers could be sent for a short or long time to observe the best method ?—I am sure it would. The most important work done in this country is being done in the model schools connected with the training colleges. If you had what in effect would be a model school in every group of schools —if in the northern district, with a group of fifty schools, you had a model school—for the management of a sole-teacher school is really the most difficult work known to- teachers —it would be a great advantage. It is all a question of method. If you had model schools of that type their management would be the main function of the Inspector in charge of the district. 12. Would it not be wise to place a good teacher in charge of such a school, giving him, say, £100 a year more than his ordinary salary would be ?—Unquestionably. It would really be economy. 13. Mr. Wells.] Do you think it would be an advantage if the Inspectors had more freedom of action in regard to inspection and examination—that they might be allowed to exempt a school which they knew to be thoroughly efficient, in order to help the weaker school % —lt might be possible under conditions such as that —that the Inspector, instead of having fifty schools, might have ninety schools. For instance, in the northern district I could have left out twenty really efficient schools that did not require me, and I am confident that I should have paid much more attention to the schools that did require me. There are any number of schools that never need to be visited by the Inspector. It would be advisable in such cases to go occasionally, if only to encourage the teachers in the good work they are doing. As I have said, there were numbers of schools in the northern district that I could have left alone, and I may add that I examined the Auckland City School with Mr. Mulgan for five years in succession, and I know that he agreed with me that we might have spent our time much better in another way. 14. What is your opinion on the question of putting the Inspectors under the Central Department ?—I do not know the central Department well enough to say. I think theoretically that Inspectors should be under the central Department. 15. If that were done, do you not think that under each Board there should be a capable adviser— a sort of resident Inspector ? —There would have to be an adjustment of rights as between the Department and the Board with respect to the control over Inspectors. I think it would be very desirable if each Board should have an adviser corresponding with the present Chief Inspectors. 16. With regard to the assisting of country teachers, do you think there would be any advantage in appointing an especially capable headmaster to exercise some sort of advisory control over the schools in his neighbourhood ? —That would logically follow from what I have just stated. I certainly think so. If you are going to keep the schools as they are, with all the standards right through, lam not quite certain that our schools should not be much larger than they are, in order to make it possible to classify the children into three separate entities. 17. Was the scheme you read to us drawn up before freedom of classification came into operation ? —No, subsequently. 18. Do you not think that the freedom of classification that now exists has done away with some of the evils you mentioned ? —No. In'point of fact, it was I that proposed the freedom of classification at the Inspectors' Conference. Would you specify the evil you refer to ? 19. With regard to trying to push the dull pupils along faster than they are really able to go ? —On the whole it has not done as much good as it ought to have done. My point is that in the larger centres the dull pupil ought not to be there. In the small country schools it does not matter, because there is no class teaching ;it is individual teaching. In a big centre such as Auckland you have class teaching, and must rely upon class teaching, and the boy who must take four hours before he can understand a sum ought not to be sitting beside a boy who can understand that sum in four minutes. 20. Do you not think that if Standard IV pupils were asked to walk two miles there would be a good deal of outcry ? —That is probable, but I do not think the distance would be two miles in many cases if there were three centres in Auckland. Assuming that Newmarket were one centre, the Onehunga children could come in by train, and the Remuera children would not be a very great distance away. I do not know that in a young country such as this the Government should not consider the question of subsidizing the Tramways Company to bring pupils in. It would certainly be an economy as against separate schools. 21. Have you anything to say on the question of grading ?—The grading of the teachers in the Auckland Province is largely due to myself. When I was a member of the Board I brought forward
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a series of resolutions, and the grading system now in vogue is in a great measure due to those resolutions, "i There is going to be a fairly strenuous attempt to interfere with what I consider is the Board's right to send only one name to a School Committee, In all human affairs you have to come down to trusting to one man or body of men. and I take it that it is axiomatic that a body of men to be trusted are the men who know, and they are the Inspectors. If they say that Thomas Smith is a better teacher than William Jones, it is ridiculous for a Board or Committee to say that the second should have the position and not the first. The only men who know are the Inspectors. Ido think (hat in the Auckland Board's scheme —I am quite out of the service now, and can say this without any want of good form —far too much stress is laid, in my opinion, upon academic attainments. I quite agree that it is a very good thing to encourage academic attainments. Yet what is the measure you apply in all the affairs of life ? If you want a doctor you do not inquire as to his academic attainments. What you want to know is whether he can set a limb or diagnose disease. If you want a lawyer you ask whether he can draw a deed or interpret an Act. When you come to teaching you apply a different measure —you ask what does he know. I think far too much weight is given to academic attainments. 22. The Chairman.] You think the efficiency of the individual should be the prime test ?—I think it should be the sole test. 23. Mr. Wells.} If in the grading scheme 50 or 70 marks are given for efficiency, and only 7 or 8 between the highest and lowest, is that not a very moderate allowance for education ? —Very moderate. But if you are to consider academic attainments and length of service, let them be extra qualifications. If you are going to allot 100 marks to a teacher per se, I say allot them wholly on his power to teach. 24. Not reckoning personality ?—That is one of the very essentials of the power to teach. 25. Mr. Kirk.] At the same time, granting that you have a good man with a non-academic career as a teacher, do you not think that that good man might have been a still better man if he had had academic training ?—I do. But if I had that better man I would give him a better school. 26. You do not wish us to infer that the academic teacher should be avoided ? —I believe that every one of our teachers would be a much better teacher if he went through an academic course, even to getting a degree. I believe that would improve the man, but I would not measure him ultimately by whether he had or had not gone through that course. Speaking for myself, lam quite satisfied that I would be a much more capable man had I gone through the academic course than by having failed to do so. 27. You would not suggest the utilitarian idea should altogether outweigh the academic one ? —No. I think what we are aiming at is increasing culture. An academic attainment is the avenue to that. Ido not want to give the impression that I underrate the value of the degree. I simply say that in the measurement of the man as a teacher I should welcome every means to improve him through that source. You are placing little children in the hands of a man who has to teach them. I say that they should be placed in the hands of the man who can teach them best, quite irrespective of any attainments he may have. I would go still further, and say that I should like to see all our teachers taking the academic course, because I believe that even the man who can teach them best would be still better for it. 28. Speaking from your experience as a teacher and Inspector, can you say that the relations that exist between the Education Boards and the Inspectors are satisfactory and in the best interests of education in the district ? —I can speak as an Inspector under the Auckland Education Board and also as a member of the Board over the Inspector. I think their relation has been most amicable. At the same time, I think that as a general principle the State should control the inspectorate, and direct it in the interests chiefly of uniformity. I sincerely commend the present practice of the Auckland Board in considering the Inspectors as occupying special positions, and removing them altogether from the sphere of the grading scheme. When you come to choose your high officers they cannot be subject to a grading system. A man might be an excellent teacher, but it does not follow that he would make a good Inspector. 29. Can you speak as to the relations which exist between the Inspectors and the teachers ?—I can only speak with any confidence of the Auckland Province, and I should say they are absolutely of the most happy description. 30. Do you agree with the suggestion that attendance at secondary schools should be compulsory, just as attendance at the primary schools is ? —I should like to answer that question tentatively. I am inclined to say Yes—that is, within a certain radius of the school. I think a great loss has been suffered in education in country schools from the abolition of what was called the Seventh Standard. The reason the children do not stay at school beyond the Sixth Standard in country districts to-day is that there is a sort of general understanding that the Board intends to employ as teachers and probationers only those who have gone through a secondary-school course. 31. Have you any knowledge of the present-day syllabus in the primary schools ?—I have some knowledge of it. I was teaching until last November. 32. Will you give us your opinion of it I—Generallyl—Generally I should say it is a good syllabus, but at the same time I think it has too many adornments. If you ask me to specify the subjects I should cut out you put me in a difficulty. I think we should give our children very much more history than we do. We should reinstate history and make it an important matter—not necessarily for examination, because an examination in history is an examination in facts. The value to a child in the learning of history is the impression left on his mind. If I speak to a child about Pym or Hampden, and give that child an impression in favour of justice or mercy or sacrifice or any of those qualities, that impression is left on his mind for all time, and it does not seem to me to matter whether he remembers the name of Pym or Hampden. The fact knowledge of history seems to me wholly unimportant, yet
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I maintain that history properly taught in our schools will do more for the upbuilding of subsequent citizens than any subject you can teach. I have also a great belief that good poetry is going to help to make good citizens, and even though the child cannot assimilate the beautiful words at the time that he is learning them, yet the knowledge remains and the process of unconscious assimilation goes -on in later life, and gives him the rich possession of a good store of good thought. 33. Mr. Poland.] Is there any other direction besides history in which you think the syllabus might be improved ? —The English might be improved. 34. In what respect ? —I think, though I suppose it is heresy, that we should go back to certain elements of formal grammar. I think, for instance, the child might go through a course in analysis without having to define subject and predicate, and words of that description. We can hedge round the word and give them a rigmarole instead of the word itself, though I think it is better that they should have the word. I would give them the elementary rules of syntax. Many of these children come from homes where English is not known. I say that without any disrespect for the homes, too. 35. The Chairman.] Is it not a fact that formal grammar is becoming less and less the vogue ? —, That is so. 36. Mr. Poland.] Is there anything further that you would alter with regard to the syllabus ? —I was surprised to hear Mr. Mahon say the other day that he found the composition of the boys who came from the primary schools lacking in simplicity. The impression I had when last I inspected the Auckland schools was, when you remembered that it was the work of children of tender years, the composition was remarkably good. I think if I had been here I would have asked him if he would not modify his opinion on account of this fact—that for every twenty children who entered the Grammar School under the old condition of affairs there are now, under the free-place system, probably two hundred, and whereas when he originally formed his judgment he had to deal with absolutely the bestchildren of the primary schools, now he has to take a very large number of average pupils. Any average boy or girl can pass the Sixth Standard under fourteen. 37. Mr. Davidson.] Do you think the present division of the Dominion into education districts is satisfactory ?—I think it is distinctly unsatisfactory. When I was on the Auckland Board it had far too much to do. We did our work as well as we could, but far too perfunctorily. I occasionally thought that the Board's deliberations were every day supplying evidence of the reason for the abolition of Boards, but lam not sure that that was right. If we are to keep the Board system, I think we should have more Boards. In all State concerns where you have big interests at stake I am in favour of centralization as against the Board system. But if we are to keep the Board system we want more Boards. The Auckland District is too big and some other districts are too small. 38. If we continue the system of controlling our educational administration by means of Boards, would you place the inspectorate under the Central Department ? —I would. 39. In looking through the departmental report I find that in one district an Inspector has a salary of £500, plus £175 travelling-allowance. In another district the Secretary and Inspector receives only £325. In another district the Inspector, who is also the Director of Technical Education, receives only £380. In another district the Secretary and Inspector gets £325, plus £75. Do you consider that that is a satisfactory arrangement ? —lf you put that position to any human being in New Zealand he would say that it was silly, and yet it exists. It does not want a Commission to decide that point. The mere statement is self-condemnatory. 40. But has not the mere statement been made very frequently without any practical result ? —Yes ; there are two politicians here. 41. Perhaps you admit that since Parliament has not taken action, and since the mere statement has not had its proper effect, a Commission may be necessary to bring about the result ? —lf educationists would ask members of Parliament that particular question at election meetings, the thing would be solved in one session of Parliament. May I say, with regard to the inspectorate, that when you are dealing with the monetary interests of the nation, such as State fire insurance, you give the man in charge oi that Department £1,200 a year ; when 'dealing with the head of a bank you give him £1,200 or £1,500 ; but when you come to the man who is directing the expenditure upon the course of education in this country, which is going to affect every unit and affect the nation hundreds of years hence, you give him £600 or £700. I maintain that you should have one Inspector-General at the head ; that under him should fee another grade of Inspector ; and then you should come down and down until you get to the Inspectors actually in charge of small districts. You want to pay the man at the head at least as much as the Manager of the Bank of New Zealand. 42. May I understand that you strongly approve of a suggestion to place the Inspectors under the Central Department, and have for them a Dominion scale of salaries similar to that allotted to teachers ? —I do. 43. Mr. Hogben.] Do you think it would be necessary that each Board should have its own expert adviser ? —Yes ; working in conjunction with the departmental officers. 44. Mr. Thomson.] You state that the Inspectors want organizing. If there were a Council of Education, what would be your opinion ? —lf you had a permanent Council of Education consisting of three men, who knew the work of teaching and knew education in its various aspects, I think that would be one of the best things that could possibly be established in the country. 45. The Chairman.] If it were possible to establish a Council of Education on which every branch of national education in New Zealand was properly represented, would that tend to efficiency of administration ?—I would rather see primary schools represented in one council, the secondary schools in another, and the University in another, and then a main Council —consisting of a representative of all three. I think myself that three primary-school teachers sitting in conference could take our system and reorganize it from bottom to top. I think it is an enormous waste of time that
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a headmaster who is a highly paid official should be paid in respect of the infants in his school, because all that he does, as far as infants are concerned, one man could do for ten schools. There is a-great deal of waste of power in that direction. 46. You favour placing Inspectors in charge of districts. Having established your Inspector in the outfield, and kept him there for two years, would you not draw him nearer to the centre ?—Two years would not be enough. 47. Then, would you gradually allow him to come nearer until he should become eligible for appointment to a suburban area, and ultimately to a metropolitan area ? —I would not suggest that the man sent to an outfield area should have had no experience in the metropolitan area. He should have a wide experience. I only indicate in the scheme the general principle upon which I would organize an inspectorate. The key-note to the question is that each Inspector should be responsible for his district, which he is not at present. 48. Do you favour grading them and gradually promoting the man from the out-district until he becomes qualified for the inspection of the metropolitan area, or even the Chief Inspectorship ? —I should not like to see the system made quite rigid, but it should be based on some such idea as that. 49. Would it not tend to make the individual the centre of educational activity in his district?— Yes. That is what I should like to see. 50. Especially if he could be relieved of the work of examining the schools that did not require it ?—Yes. 51. Would not the adoption of such a scheme add to the present cost of the inspectorate in this district ? —lt would. 52. Largely ?—Not so largely as to compare with the advantages of the system. I would like to say that I feel very keen indeed on this question of the reorganizing of our schools so that the attainments and capabilities of the child shall be the determining factor as to where he is taught, and so that by aggregation within a certain area our work could be concentrated. I really believe that that would work the greatest reform in our primary system that would be possible. I hope that the Commission as it proceeds through the Dominion will elicit the opinions of experienced teachers on this point. 53. Do you consider that the system of freedom of classification has been a success ? —A great success. 54. Are you prepared, as a teacher and past Inspector, to say that teachers should be allowed to accredit a pupil forward ?—Only in certain cases. They would have to be special cases to be approved by the Inspector, and they should be rare for a beginning. On the certificate of certain oi the schools in Auckland it would he absolutely unnecessary for the Inspector to accredit, because the teacher could do it as efficiently. Herbert Glanville Cousins examined on oath. (No. 14.) 1. The Chairman.] What is your position ?—I am headmaster of the Auckland Normal School, and an ex-President of the Headmasters' Association'; past-President of the District Educational Institute, and contributors' representative on the Superannuation Board. 2. What are your educational qualifications? —I am a Master of Arts of the New Zealand University, and hold an Al certificate as teacher. At the request of the Auckland Educational Institute I come before you to make a statement on matters within your order of reference. In requesting me to do so my committee have honoured me by the assurance that in speaking quite freely from the standpoint of my own experience I shall, in a broad sense, give a true expression of their opinions. I come, then, not as a delegate but as a representative teacher voicing his personal experience and a few of the conclusions based on it. This experience dates back to 1877, when the Education Act was passed. For ten years I was a pupil of various primary schools ; later, a pupilteacher for six years. Next I had about seven years' experience in charge of country schools —halftime, sole-teacher, two-teacher, and three-teacher schools. During the past twelve years I have been in the city —half that time first assistant master at Beresford Street School, the remaining time in my present position, headmaster of the Normal School, which includes main school, high school, model, school, junior model school (or lower part of a two-teacher school), and kindergarten. My work also includes services for the Training College in training the students in methods and practice of teaching. About two years ago I spent four months as Acting-Inspector of Schools, visiting about eighty schools, almost all of which were in remote parts of the district. It affords me much pleasure to be able to bear testimony to the marked progress which has taken place within my memory in education in New Zealand, particularly in our primary schools in recent years. This manifests itself —(1) In the love of school as shown by the great majority of our pupils in contrast to the marked tendency to truancy in the last generation; (2) in the improved discipline of our schools as evidenced by the marked decrease in corporal punishment; (3) in the more natural relations between pupil and teacher, which is an important factor in that most desirable product —good tone ; (4) in the more all-round development of our pupils, fitting them for their future work. This improvement is due to several causes : (1.) The wonderful advance in biology, embryology, psychology, and kindred sciences has lead to an intensive study of the child and his life —his relation to the past and to the future. This has begun to reflect itseli upon us in New Zealand, with the result that we have become self-critical as teachers, and are beginning to be dissatisfied with mere empiricism. (2.) The amendments made in the examination requirements for teachers' certificates in recent years have led to a rejuvenation in the profession. (3.) The improved status of teachers due to the establishment of a Court of appeal, colonial scale of salaries, and the establishment of a Superannuation Fund has added to the dignity
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of the teacher's work. All these reforms have been welcomed by teachers, each as a step forward towards our goal —a noble profession evolved from a sorry trade. (4.) The introduction of a modern syllabus which brings us into close touch with the child's life and aims at making the fullest use of his environment in leading out his inborn capabilities. And, consequently, (5) the getting-away from a narrow system of training which aimed, even in elementary schools, at concentration on a few faculties at the cost of others very important. The commercial success of England left its mark on the elementary schools, and it will be long before we can free our minds from the prejudice towards a commercial bias in education. In the last century the ideal held up to boyhood was the successful merchant, who as a poor boy had gone up to London, entered a counting-house, and by ability and industry raised himself to fame. The primary education which would give the introduction to this life was in great demand. The same ideas governed our first schools in New Zealand—a land requiring a rural rather than an urban population ; and to the lads who might well have gone afield the bells again rang out, " Turn again, Whittington ! " Are we not realizing at last that such a bias is quite unfitted to the national schools of this pastoral and industrial country —that ouf education has, in too many cases, unfitted the child to follow the occupation of his father ? I firmly believe that the present trend in education is wise, and is based on a fuller revelation of child-nature that has resulted from the application of scientific method in its research. Notwithstanding this opinion of a general improvement, I think that your Commission will have an excellent opportunity to suggest further improvements. It goes almost without saying that the most crying need at the present time is that of the children of our backblocks. Particularly is that the case in many parts of this province. The difficulties are —(1) The impossibility of regular attendance owing to the state of the roads; (2) the difficulty of getting efficient teachers to serve in remote parts ; (3) the frequent changes in teachers in such schools due to unwillingness to serve in them long. These are very real difficulties, and it is obvious that to remove this most serious disability suffered by many country children much help must be given from outside. The most practical suggestions I can offer are, therefore —(I) To recommend the Government to improve the roads leading to these schools ; (2) to pay a higher remuneration for the teachers' services in them ; (3) to give extra service marks to those who loyally serve in remote schools. The question of the higher payment of these teachers raises the whole question of teachers' salaries. I wish to record my belief —(1) That the emoluments offered to teachers and Inspectors are not likely to draw into the profession the type of man most needed for it, since the prospects of reward are much more generous in other professions requiring no more ability or preparation; (2) that the present salaries earned by the majority of teachers after long service (apart from the few more fortunate ones who hold the higher positions) are insufficient to maintain them in sufficient comfort and dignity ; (3) that the increase in the cost of living during recent years has pressed very severely indeed on the families of teachers with moderate salaries ; (4) that the Inspectors' salaries should be governed by a Dominion scale, and should in all cases be more than those of teachers under their direction. In the case of district high schools, the comparative lowness of salary has led to an exceedingly short tenure of position on the part of these teachers. The inference is obvious. Another direction in which improvement is desirable is the removal of the disability in regard to promotion suffered by teachers in small educational districts. There are so few good positions within their own districts, and the difficulty of obtaining good appointments elsewhere is so real, that discontent is engendered, and men try to serve in larger districts. Not for the teacher alone, but for the general advancement of education in these districts, some remedy is required. For this reason teachers would like to see a rearrangement of education districts. Then grading schemes like that in force in Auckland would be practicable throughout the Dominion. As far as it goes, this scheme gives great satisfaction, and has done much to uplift the dignity of the teacher. In one way it is incomplete. In my opinion it should grade its teacher irrespective of sex for every type of position. I doubt if the Board realizes how keenly its women teachers are feeling the injustice of being debarred from' fair competition. The male teachers do not fear open competition, and, I believe, would generously welcome the appointment of a woman to a high position if merit alone were its cause. As the efficiency of the service demands that the best teachers should hold the most influential positions, I consider this position impregnable. With such a scheme so amended introduced into each reconstructed district of suitable size, the button-hole system of appointment —undignified and little less than scandalous —would be wiped out. The Boards which have voluntarily renounced the patronage to which they might have clung have earned the sincere gratitude of their teachers. Another improvement which I hope to see in the not very distant future is an introduction of the kindergarten as an integral part of our State-school system. As a result of my experience with the kindergarten in my own school, I cannot speak too highly of its good work and great possibilities, and hope that the Government will aim at a gradual introduction of this most practical and beneficial system of characterbuilding. In regard to the Training College, I wish to urge two things —(1.) The provision for such salaries to all positions in the Normal School as will entice the most efficient candidates for the positions of critic teachers to apply. The two lowest positions are those chiefly referred to, where the teachers begin at a minimum salary of £90 per annum. These teachers have responsibilities which bear heavily upon them. Not only must they act as models and critics for students, but they are constantly under inspection from visitors from other schools. Try to realize the position, and the anomaly will force itself upon you. (2.) The extension of facilities for the practical work of the students. One hundred students practising on five hundred pupils is altogether too heavy a load for a normal school. In practical work we did by far the best work when we had only half the present number of students. The burden on my teachers is very great, and there is some loss of efficiency in the training given, to say nothing of the effect upon the children. I think it would pay the State to incorporate another primary school with the college so that the training might be as practical as possible, and thoroughly
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efficient. Another improvement that should be effected in our education is a drawing together of the various branches. The course in every secondary school, vocational, classical, or technical, should t)e based on the primary course, and great care should be taken to see that there is no loss of efficiency through contradictory methods. That this is so I will suggest to you by one illustration. Generally speaking, the handwriting in our primary schools is careful, laborious, and of good form. Judging on several years' experience of students and others who have passed through secondary schools, scribble is tolerated in them, and the result is disastrous. The primary school, in failing to develop speed and aiming too much at caligraphy, sent on to the secondary school a pupil ill-equipped to apply his writing readily to the work required. The secondary school, looking upon writing as a primary-school subject and one not counting towards scholarship results, hurried the pace unduly, and ignored the result. To my mind, this illustration is very suggestive that different objectives on the part of the two schools in other subjects also may be leading to disastrous results. If this is true, how shall we gain greater unity of effort ? (1.) Bring the two grades more into touch through their Inspectors. There has been no overlapping in the inspection. Let some Inspectors be responsible for continuity of effort in certain directions throughout the school-life of the child. (2.) To make this practicable and effective, make one Board responsible for the whole course of the child's training in primary and secondary schools. I will close my remarks with a few suggestions called for by clause 9of the order of reference —" In what respects school instruction can be improved and made of more practical value in equipping pupils for their future careers." I would suggest first that we reduce the amount of arithmetic and develop greater facility in the simple arithmetic of every-day life. In saying that, I appreciate the improvement that has been made already in the arithmetic. I think the trend is in the right direction, but I think we want to go still further. In regard to geography, I would transfer to the secondary schools most of the theory work,, and, if possible, I would lay greater emphasis, even greater than the syllabus lays at present, on observation work. I think you cannot overemphasize the importance of training a child in his early years to observe. I think that is thoroughly sound, scientifically. If we introduce theory work too soon into our schools lam afraid the effect is to kill interest and to prevent the child afterwards working out reasons for himself. I would say that as soon as a child is sufficiently interested by his observation to begin questioning the teacher as to why certain things are, then has the ideal time arrived for the teacher to suggest in as simple a way as possible the lines of thought which would lead the child to the full comprehension of the subject. As to history and civics, I would force these subjects into greater prominence. lam inclined to think the best way to do that would be absolutely to set a certain number of hours in excess of the present number required, as the minimum time which should be given to the subject. lam not prepared to advocate it as an examination subject, which is another way to draw very prominent attention to it, but I think a minimum time should be fixed for this important subject. As to drawing, I would say that this must be more and more applied. I think the time is coming when we shall have to give up purely freehand drawing. We shall rely more and more on drawing from nature and memory. Drawing is the outcome of observation. The mere copying of the work of others is falling more and more into the background, I notice in my reading on education. I recognize that the syllabus is suggesting that, but I would urge it to go still further and suggest that a practical course in drawing should be outlined from the primary classes right through to the standard classes, and that this should be based entirely upon objects. As to nature-study and science, I would say that the suggestions for this work are already admirable. If these suggestions are to be carried out, the size of the classes in many schools must be reduced. That is the only way to make the course more practical. When we find, as we occasionally do, one teacher in charge of a very large class, it is pitiful to see that teacher making strenuous efforts to teach nature-study on modern lines. We find in subjects like this the very strongest argument in favour of a more reasonable staffing of schools ; and when I say the staffing of schools is not anything like what it should be to make the work effective I do not ignore the great improvements in recent years, and the fact that we still stand comparatively well compared with some other parts of the world. Of course, the cost must be considered on the one side against the ultimate good to the State resulting from a more practical and thorough training of its childhood and youth on the other. As to English, I would make the course more definite, and insist on much practical work. I think English should be taught as thoroughly and practically as arithmetic, which I think stands first as the subject most .effectively treated in our schools. I think the course in English has been too wide, and that a good number of our teachers have not been able to take full advantage of the opportunity open to them to draft out a thorough course and put that into execution. I think English is such an important subject that where experience has shown there has been a weakness it might be well to revert to a very definite plan of work indeed. I would insist more and more on simple written language. I would not try to get pretentious work in composition, but would try to get every child to express his thoughts in as simple language as possible. The result of my experience as an assistant teacher is quite clear. I found that the smaller the class the better trie written English, because I was able to give more work and correct more work, and I found that nothing but repeated practice would knock out of the child's written language those errors which appear to us as errors of carelessness —faults which are quite natural to any one who is not writing often. We must start early with a child and try to get him day by day to express his thoughts in simple written language, just as we now get him to work in. the exercises of arithmetic. Ido not for a minute suggest that the oral work should be ignored. I value most highly the suggestion of the syllabus in the direction of oral composition, and I think since that syllabus came in there has been a very marked improvement in training children to express their thoughts simply. In spelling I would allow the use of the dictionary in all examinations. I would continue word-building, but largely with the idea of helping the vocabulary. I should train children in the habit of using dictionaries, and insist on that as part
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of the regular work. It is no disgrace for an adult to have to look up a difficult word in the dictionary. ...Why should it be a disgrace to a child in Standard V or VI if he cannot spell a word that would puzzle an adult ? I would lay less emphasis on spelling and more emphasis on language. For this xeason I should make dictation the test of language and not a test of spelling. That is to say, I should pick for dictation passages familiar to the children, and test them by asking them to reproduce what I was reading. I find it is very hard to kill an old habit, and it is difficult indeed to get teachers to realize that when dictation shows errors in little words, that is simply due to the want of practice day by day in writing simple language. I think you will agree with me that if we cannot clear out of the written language of the Standard VI children all these little errors, then we may as well ignore some of the mistakes in spelling made in very long words. As to writing, I would institute time tests in various standards, and 1 would make the improvements (1) legibility and (2) facility. I think the artistic form is also very desirable and should not be discounted, but it should not take first place as it was inclined to take in the past. The development of facility without losing legibility should be the aim in our writing. On the physical side I would give more natural conditions where possible both in the schools and in the playgrounds. I would rely on play as the chief means with little children for their physical, mental, and moral development. I think the psychology of play is only being looked into now in the world. People are coming to the conclusion that it is through the natural activity of the child that you are going to train him to something better, and the scope offered in the playground is so very great that the schools of the future will have to rely very largely on this excellent opportunity of training our citizens. I would emphasize that physical education is desirable, not to develop physical results only, but to give a better mental training. I think some of the best training in moral character must be based on physical exercises. I do not wish to labour this subject, but I would be very pleased to amplify my opinions if lam asked questions. Then, on the physical side, too, I believe that the Department should issue certificates of proficiency in swimming, and I would even suggest in deportment. The carriage of children in no country, I suppose, is so good as we should like it to be. lam strongly convinced that when a boy or girl does not hold himself or herself well, something more than the body is at fault. You have to get at the mind as well as the body. Want of self-confidence very often is at the bottom of this bad deportment. 1 would encourage children in every way to think as often as they possibly can of the value of a good posture, especially in walking. In regard to deportment, then, I would recognize merit where I saw it, and award a certificate for this purpose. 1 think such advisers as Mr. Milnes recommended in the physical work might be asked to select each year those students who they thought deserved special mention in this way. At the Normal School already we issue certificates of competency and proficiency in swimming, with markedly good results. The certificates of proficiency are issued by the Chairman of the Education Board, and thereby carry a greater value. This year we have been able to issue these certificates to certain girls. In regard to the grading of schools, the ideas of the teachers will be found in the letter sent by the Headmasters' Association through the Teachers' Institute to the Education Department. These suggestions were indorsed by the Chief Inspector, which we consider gives them greater value. They will be found in Mr. McKenzie's evidence. 3. Mr. Davidson.] In regard to the examination and classification of teachers, when did you see the Gazette containing the new regulations ?—lt was sent to me early in February. 1 received a copy before the Principal of the Training College. 4. What effect do you think these new regulations will have upon the uncertificated teachers of the Dominion ?—So far as the teachers are able to carry out what is required, I think they will have an admirable effect. I refer particularly to the requirements for practical work in science, but I believe that a great many of the teachers will be unable to put in that practical work, and therefore they will suffer hardship through their disability. 5. Do you think it would be wise to leave the subject of science and grant a certificate apart from that, leaving a special certificate to be obtained later on in science ? —I would do anything to encourage these teachers in the backblocks to go on with their study. For that reason the best suggestion I can make is that there should be an optional course for teachers who are absolutely shut i ut from doing practical work in science. I would say they should be allowed to do extra work in language or history. The Inspector-General could draw up an extra course that would be one of culture. It would be an unfortunate thing to abandon and I think the obligation should be put on these teachers to carry out a practical course in science in a certain number of years when they come within reach of schools where instruction can be imparted. 6. That is to say, where it is impossible for teachers to attend the classes necessary to obtain practical work you would have an alternative course ?—1 should, but I think I would limit them by requiring science ultimately. lam thoroughly in agreement with the suggestion that science is necessary for a complete training, and that if taken at all it must be taken practically. 7. In regard to spelling and the use of the dictionary, you are aware that in some districts it is regarded as absolutely necessary that every child in the Fourth, Fifth, and Sixth Standards should have a dictionary ?—Dictionaries are now supplied by the Department under the free-book regulations. It is the use of them that I want to emphasize. The pupils may have them and not make use of them. 8. You are not aware they have been supplied by the children themselves in cc.tain districts and are being used ? —I know here and there it is being done, but I think the practice does not obtain as generally as it should do. 9. In connection with the teaching of English, have you noticed that in the new course of study both in South Australia and Victoria special emphasis is placed on phonics or voice-production ?— I did not know until I had a conversation with you a few weeks ago. 10. Would you suggest that special emphasis should be placed on the subject of phonics and voiceproduction in the new syllabus ? —Yes ; and that reminds me that in some way I have left out any
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suggestion on reading. My suggestion in regard to reading is that we must try to develop the habit of-reading in our schools. In the past we succeeded admirably in training children to read aloud from certain books, but she great number who went through the schools were not so imbued with love of reading that they have continued the habit after leaving school. My opinion is that if we are to develop : any habit we must give more and more time to it daily, until the habit becomes confirmed ; and I would like, if it were possible, for this to be done in the school. That means we must do more silent reading. Modern criticism of the old school of reading is this : that a man brought up to read aloud only gets into a very slow way of reading silently by himself, and I think evidence can be brought to p; ove that many people are capable of apprehending reading-matter two or three times more quickly than others. We have done nothing so far to train a child in quick, silent reading. If that is so, there must have been a great loss of time in our reading. Reading aloud affords an excellent opportunity for training in spoken language, and of course it will be kept for that purpose side by side with recitation. 11. Have you noticed impurity in the vowel sounds in many parts of New Zealand ?—A member of the Commission noticed it in my school this morning, and it would have been strange if I had not noticed it before he went there. 12. Is that not the tendency throughout he Dominion ? —Unfortunately I have had no experience elsewhere —I am looking forward to a trip to other countries —at present 1 cannot make comparisons in this way. What I have gathered in conversation with others is that we have drawn in so many children from different parts of the Empire that probably on the whole we have less faults in diction than you would find, say, in one district in England. 13. Would you approve of systematic exercises for a few minutes daily in voice-pioduction ?— Yes, if the teachers understood the principles. I think most teachers, like myself, have ruined their voices through ignorance, and that if we had had wise direction when younger w 7 e might have conserved our strength. 14. One of the witnesses referred to formal grammar : is it not within the right of any teacher now to use what is called formal grammar ? —That is perfectly right. 15. If a teacher had an opportunity to draw up his own scheme of work and that scheme of work has to be approved by the Inspector, it rests largely with the Inspector whether or not formal grammar may be taught in the school ?—I would make the reservation that under the present syllabus as I read it no Inspector has the right to come to my school and say, " You must teach these terms." The syllabus lays out a good course of grammar, but in practice I think all connected with education will admit that examinations set the standard rather than the syllabus. I want to make this qualification in regard to a headmaster making out the course. I do not know whether the attention of the Commission has been drawn to the fact that the population of New Zealand moves about very freely. Mr. Metge, headmaster of a school of a thousand children, told me that he admits about five hundred children in the year. That means he must lose a good many hundreds too. That is one of the greatest difficulties we have under a system which allows a teacher a very considerable latitude in framing the course of work. He may frame an ideal course, but he finds that of children coming to the Sixth Standard, perhaps 70 per cent, may have come from various schools. I think that is a point that must be kept in view in regard to syllabus work. For that reason I would like to see he English course as definite as possible, so that the really practical work is done as thoroughly as possible in all schools. 16. Mr. Poland.] You made some excellent suggestions in regard to improving the efficiency of teaching : have you any suggestions to make by which we can reduce the cost of education without impairing the efficiency ? —I am afraid the Commission will find that nut too hard to crack. . I can make one suggestion by which some economy may be brought about —namely, the centralization of schools. I think the Commission could easily get from the Department or Education Boards figures that would prove that in some districts this is easily possible. 17. You believe there are districts in New Zealand where centralization could be very advantageously followed ?—That is very common talk amongst teachers. I know, personally, of one good example at Coromandel. 18. Do you know anything about the rural course suggested by the Department and advocated by the Director of Technical Instruction for district high schools ?—I remember one that came out, but I did not know the Department was responsible for it. My objection to that is that it does not provide sufficiently for the general education, and that it gives too great a bias towards agriculture. 19. Do you think there are too many subjects proposed to be dealt with in that course to enable children to get a general education as well ?, —Yes, I think the district high school should give as nearly as possible a broad general education. I quite approve of a bias towards rural life, as you will understand from my opening remarks. I think even in the towns there will not be much harm done by giving the children a bias towards open-air life, but I do not believe in early specialization. 20. Do you think that six hours per week to agriculture and one day per fortnight as a manualtraining school would be sufficient for these two subjects in a district high school ? —I think it is quite as much time as you can afford to give. However, in considering the times allotted you must also consider the amount of correlation. The modern idea is that all these subjects merge into and are correlated to the other—that you teach arithmetic through agriculture, and so on. 21. Mr. Thomson.] As a teacher, do you think more value should attach to the power to teach than to the literary qualifications ?—I think one is contained in the other. Ido not see how you can make a comparison between them. 22. Do you think there should be a vocational course in every secondary school ?■—Not in every secondary school. I think that a certain percentage of pupils who are going to fill the highest positions in life should have simply a broad secondary education, and should leave out vocational work until after that, but the great majority of our pupils who are not going to the highest positions in life must begin to take vocational work in the secondary course, I think.
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23. Do you believe in teaching history and civics ?—Certainly, but I would teach them on a very different plan to the old plan. I value very little the ordinary text-books in history, because I think they emphasize the battle side and ignore the life of the people. I would like to see the Department obtain the best historical pictures that are obtainable, and provide lantern-slides of these for use in -the schools. The Department could do that more economically than it is now being done by teachers themselves, myself included, and if these pictures were sent to the backblocks and country schools it would give the children in these places an opportunity of learning something of the broader world than that in which they live. 24. Would you have these subjects made compulsory ? —Certainly. In my own school I do more than is required by the regulations. To understand history the imagination must be developed, and modern authorities, I think, agree that to develop this imagination a good deal of work is necessary in the way of story-telling, so that a child, particularly one brought up in narrow surroundings, may have a chance of realizing conditions very different from his own. Unless they do that they cannot apprehend the teaching of history, and you must use pictures to make this real to them. I hope the Department will carry out this idea of importing and using lantern-slides extensively. 25. We have heard the opinion expressed that teaching by pictures is not of much use : will you state exactly what is your opinion in reference to the use of lantern-slides in the Normal College ?— I have had many years' experience privately apart from the school as well as in the school, and Pthink there is no handier way of teaching a class oi children than with a lantern-slide. When I throw a picture on the screen all the children can look at it at once, and one child in discussing the picture can lead the thought of the others. When you have, children grouped together you want to keep them all thinking along the same lines as nearly as possible, and the lantern-slide is an admirable way of directing the observation. So far I have not had the collection of pictures for history such as I would like. I find the lantern-slide very valuable, too, in connection with nature-study. 26. Would you recommend the general adoption of the lantern ?—Most certainly ; and I hope that in all new schools there will be one room at least that can be readily darkened. 27. Do you think the D examination should be broken into sections ? —We do it now to keep the teachers studying, and I think that tends to help to send the backblock teachers further on with their work. For that reason I would favour the suggestion of extending the principle. 28. Generally speaking, do you think the people are getting value for their money I —l concur in the opinion Mr. Milnes expressed yesterday morning. He gave that opinion as one coming from another country. Looking at it internally, as he looks at it externally, lam convinced that in the primary-school system the State is getting a very valuable return for its money, and I am glad to have the opportunity to bear testimony to the very useful work that is being done by many of the teachers in. the service. 29. No country in the world endeavours to carry on its education in such remote parts as New Zealand does ? —There are not many countries to be compared with New Zealand in this,way, and I cannot make a comparison. I think New Zealand has done very well considering the very great difficulties we have in these backblock settlements, but I think the State ought to sacrifice a great deal more to help the children of the pioneers in these parts. 30. Mr. Kirk.} You spoke of the detriment to education in the backblocks by reason of the frequent changes that take place in the teachers. Would that be lessened or overcome by fixing a minimum term of appointment ?—I think the effect of that would be to make it still more difficult to get any one to take up an appointment. 31. So you would not recommend it ?—I would rather induce a teacher to go by offering some reward than force him to go unwillingly. I would make this a very honourable service, and reward it as much as possible. I had experience of this myself. I went back to two half-time schools. I was ten miles from the post-office. I lived with a gum-digger and had no one to converse with all through the winter except the gum-digger. I really pitied the condition of these children, but if I was going back I would like to take lantern-slides for their benefit. I dare say there are a few places still like that. 32. Then, assuming the conditions were made sufficiently attractive in the way of remuneration, do you think it would be a wise thing to assume that the teacher appointed would stay the minimum time ?—I certainly think so. I think" if you could afford to say to a teacher, " You will stay here three years, and at the end of that time, your work being satisfactory, you will get a comparatively good appointment," we should be helping these backblock schools very considerably. 33. You do not believe in early specialization ? —I do not. I would hold it off as late as possible. 34. What teaching should precede the selection of any vocational course ?—I should say a complete primary course before any vocational work at all. 35. What do you mean by that ?—I should not consider that a bias towards the rural life or towards a commercial life was a vocational course. I would be willing to see this bias towards country life in our primary schools. I would have gardens in every city school. 36. We have heard a good deal about this, and allowing for the good effect that gardens have upon human nature, what other teaching would you give as the bias before the vocational course is taken for every child, and up to what age ?—I w 7 ould give each as much hand-work as possible in the primary school. I would make the course as broad as possible to develop the mind as much as the body. I think we are in the right direction now in introducing into our schools woodwork—not as a technical subject, but as a subject having an effect on the mind. I believe a boy who is trained to make a joint perfectly is going to be a more useful citizen then the boy who has never used a tool. 37. The Chairman.} Has that training given these boys a bent towards trades ?—I think it has. I think it is doing something to break down what I regard as the old influence of commercial life.
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38. Mr. Kirk.] You spoke about the influence of reading: what, in your opinion, should be the purpose in view in selecting books for reading in school ? —The first thing should be to develop interest in literature. I should say that if at the end of the school course a boy had not a love of reading, that the main object had failed, even though he could read aloud with fair intelligence. . 39. What books would you recommend ?—I should take the Teachers' Encyclopedia, which has a list of books which I think is a very good list, and I would map out a course of continuous reading, and I think I would have all the children do a very definite amount of this reading silently, and I would have discussion lessons on the matter of it afterwards. With silent reading there must be a test to see that there is comprehension of what is read. 40. Would you let them develop a taste for the lighter literature ?—I should be very cautious about that. Ido not say that every tendency a child has should be developed. I think there should be some restraint; but I should say that every legitimate taste the child has in his life should find expression in the school. Unless the school comes into touch with it and develops it then we lose efficiency in the school. If a boy is interested in making boats, why not let him read at school a book dealing with boats, and so on. 41. Would you eliminate such books as Henty's and Ballantyne's ? —Not fully, but I wouldfnot give them the very prominent place they hold now. In this connection I think the kinematograph-film-is doing much harm to our children. I would not suggest that children should not be allowed to go to picture theatres, but I think a certain theatre should be set apart to show certain work in connection with children, and 1 would suggest that the films at this theatre should be under censorship. I think it is very desirable for the good of the children of the State that the school influence should permeate beyond the immediate precincts of the school, and should get to the home life of the child. 42. Mr. Wells.] You spoke of encouraging backblock teachers by giving them, say, higher marks for service : have you thought at all of the proportion you would give ?—No. If I did not give them marks I would give them a definite promise of a definite appointment afterwards. It struck me one effective way would be to double the service marks. If a teacher served three years in a really remote part I would make that equivalent to six years in the city. 43. Has it been discussed by the Institute ? —No ; I am not in any way expressing the detailed opinions of the Institute. 44. Do you think the tendency of these revised regulations would be to make backblock schools more unpopular ? —Unless they are amended as I hope they will be. 45. I mean as they stand ? —I do not think the backblock teachers are being sufficiently considered. 46. It will make it exceedingly difficult to fill backblock schools ?—Yes, I am convinced of that. When I went round as an Inspector I was utterly surprised to find how many uncertificated tt-achers there are in these schools. 47. You spoke of the education districts : have you any suggestion to offer as to the size ? —I would like to see four. The system in Auckland of grading is working admirably. The teachers here would feel very much grieved if their district is to be reduced. The broader the scope of promotion the greater will be the hope of the teacher. 48. You think you can say, as an Auckland teacher, there is no feeling that the Auckland District is too large ? —lt is the other way round. More than that I can say. After attending about eleven annual meetings of the New Zealand Educational Institute, I say that the feeling is most pronounced against these small districts. There are so few schools of any large size in them that good teachers want to get out of these small districts as soon as they can. I have not professionally examined in all of these districts, but I would not mind staking my reputation that the efficiency in them cannot be so great as the efficiency of the country schools of the larger districts. 49. You think that the want of hope will have a deadening effect ?—A wonderful effect. I think the greatest qualification of a teacher —and I came to the conviction after four months' work as an Inspector —is enthusiasm, and anything this Commission can do to develop that will be grand work. 50. You made mention of the Normal School giving teaching practice to all the students in the classes there :a c you of opinion that the effect on the children has been bad ?—I would not say it has been bad. I think the children gain wonderfully from many points of view, but perhaps when it comes to getting a definite standard of work, then the burden is a little felt. One of the Inspectors told me my infant department was 50 per cent, lower in efficiency than another infant department. He based that estimate on certain practical tests he had given which did not turn out very well, and I attribute that entirely to their work being cut up so much by the training students ; but on the whole I am quite satisfied there is a counterbalancing effect in giving the children breadth of training. I am convinced that if I had fifty students to train instead of one hundred, the efficiency would be much more effective —I know that from experience. 51. You spoke of making arithmetic more practical : would you go so far as they go in the Horace Mann School, where they rule out at once any sum that is not applicable to daily life ? —I think that is the aim, and I would subscribe to that in a general way ; but, of course, all these reforms must be made gradually. 52. You think that is the goal to be reached ?—Yes. 53. In geography you would strike out much of the present mathematical geography ?—Where I was sure that the children were going on to secondary work I would put all except observation-work into the secondary school. I find children do it much more readily in the District High School. lam sorry to say that the examination again governs the position here. 54. I suppose you mean organized play when speaking of play ? —lf you mean organized play in the broad sense, such as training one child to protect a weaker one, and training the eye and hand in handball and organization in football, certainly. 55. Mr. Pirani.] In regard to the grading of teachers, do you think it would be a fair thing in the grading-list, say from and inclusive of the second assistant downwards, that the men and women should
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be put on the same footing ? —I said before that I would take every type of position and grade the applicants for these positions irrespective of sex, and then I would appoint the topmost. I believe •the great majority of women are claiming for open competition, and the men are not afraid of open competition. The door has been closed, and the effect is that the more competent women in the profession who have a right to expect something higher have no hope of pi omotion. 56. Do you think it is possible with the present staff we have to have that grading brought up to date on the principle you say ?—I think so. 57. Do you not know that some teachers are only seen by one Inspector probably in five years ?— I never heard of that; Ido not think it is so in our province. 58. Under a proper grading system more han one Inspector would surely have to see a teacher ? —It would be desirable, but not essential. 59. Then, do you think you would approve of the grading of teachers by any single Inspector ? — Where more could not possibly see a teacher I should take the opinion of an Inspector as better than nobody's. 60. Then you think that the promotion of a teacher should properly rest in the hands of somebody who is better than nobody ? —That is so. I think it should rest on expert opinion, and that the more experts you can have to confirm that opinion the better ; but that where it is not/practicable to have many experts to see the teacher I think you can safely rely on the grading of that teacher on the opinion of one Inspector. 61. In many parts of this district only one Inspector would see a teacher ? —Only in the case of young teachers. No one can work very high in the profession without knowing a number of Inspectors. 62. But is it not the people in the lower positions wdio want safeguarding, and not the ones in the higher positions ?—They all want safeguarding. 63. You believe in cutting up the graded list into section ?—Certainly. 64. What about the suggestion I made to supplement the training college by having certain small schools in different parts of the district conducted by special teachers, to which schools inexperienced teachers could have been brought for instruction ? —I think it is admiiable, provided you make these an essential part of the training college so that the methods will be in keeping with proper principles. 65. And specially level up the salaries of the head teachers who had charge of these schooh ?— Necessarily so. 66. .Have you had any experience in the use of single desks in school ? —My Standard I has been using single desks for four years. I think they are very fine indeed. I recognize the difficulty that more floor-space is required, and that they are expensive too, but I think the single desk is desirable, especially as the children get bigger. 67. Mr. Hogben.] In regard to the science for the D Examination : under the revised regulations, would you give the iall D certificate in any case without knowledge of scientific method ? —I think I would even dare to do that, provided I gave a handicap to make up for it, on the principle of the University in regard to Latin. 68. You really think you could give a full certificate to a teacher with no knowledge of scientific method ?—I admit it would be a very great pity to have to do so, but I would rather do that than debar the teacher from getting on. 69. But would it debar the teacher from getting on if we gave him a license ? —lf 5 per cent, is taken off his salary I think that is wrong. 70. If the 5-per-cent. disability is taken away, you believe a license would meet the case ? —Unless the license prejudices him in the eyes of the Board. If the Board gave a preference to teachers with a certificate, then I think it would not be satisfactory. 71. Supposing you gave a full certificate wi hout science, and left science to be indorsed, do you think that most of the teachers would ever take science at all ?—I would make it compulsory unless the conditions were such that they could not take it. 72. Do you not think the proper course would be, even if it did cost a considerable sum of money, to give them the opportunity to go through the science course ?—That is the better course, I admit. If you close the schools and give them a practical course, I am with you. 73. Could they not do it in the Chrislmas holidays ? —I do not agree with that. 74. Are you aware it is done in America ?—I know a good deal of continuation work is done in America. 75. Do you think it is too much to ask a teacher once in his life to make that sacrifice ? —I think it is too big a thing you ask, and I do not think it will add to the inducements to go to the backblocks. 76. You think it might be overcome if we were to bring them within reach of the science teaching ? —I think that is the best solution. 77. Do you mean by a " vocational course " a technical course ? —Not a full technical course, but such a course as would lead towards the vocation, while giving a fairly good general education. 78. The Chairman.] You are a firm believer in the value of kindergarten training ?—Yes. 79. Do you see any objection to grafting kindergarten education on to the public-school course in the large centres ?—None at all, except that of expense. 80. Apart from the question of expense, is it not recognized elsewhere that the children proceeding from the kindergarten to the primary school have an advantage over the ordinary pupil ?—I think so ; that is my experience. 81. Mr. Pirani.] You said that some Inspector found fault with the infants' work in your school : was that Inspector a departmental or Board Inspector ?—The local Inspector; the departmental Inspector called the work good. 82. Then, if that Inspector was the sole judge of the efficiency of the infant teacher, according to your idea that Inspector would not be able to judge ? —I would not agree with his judgment. 83. And so he might make a mistake in the classification ?—Certainly. We are all liable to make mistakes. Ido not say the present system is ideal, but it is far ahead of anything we have had.
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Sarah Ann Moore-Jones examined on oath. (No. 15.) 1. The Chairman.} What is your position ? —I am Principal of the Ladies' College at Remuera— a private school. 2. Have you been a school-teacher ? —Yes. I had a D certificate under the old regulations. When I taught in England I had a first-class certificate. I was Mistress of Method at Cheltenham College, and Headmistress of the Model School at the same place. 3. What is the subject you wish to bring before the Commission ? —I cannot represent all the private schools, because I have not consulted with them. This is what I wish to bring before the Commission : By the Education Act of 1908, paragraph 170, it is enacted that where teachers or managers of private schools desire to have such schools inspected by an Inspector, &c, " the local Board of Education shall therefore arrange for the inspection . . . such inspection to be conducted in like manner as the inspection of public schools." The Government inspection of private schools every sincere educationist must indorse as necessary, good, and just; but I would respectfully draw the attention of the Commission to the fact that inspection in its literal sense, unaccompanied by individual examination, as now interpreted by the Board of Education, should be amply sufficient to satisfy any Inspector that " regular and efficient instruction " is given in any school under inspection. Having had long experience in public and private schools, I venture to submit that, now examinations are in disfavour, such inspections accompanied with individual examination are prejudicial to the welfare of private schools, since many parents send their children to them principally to avoid the Board's examinations, the strain and excitement of which they desire to protect their children from. I ask the Commission in its work of reform to eliminate from the Act of 1908, paragraph 170, the words " such inspection (of private schools) to be conducted in like manner as the inspection of public schools," and to make it plain that such inspection of private schools be confined to the literal meaning of " inspection," and not to include examination of pupils unless specially asked for by the managers or principals of such private schools. In making this request I would show that such examinations of pupils of private schools by the local Board of Education accompanying its inspection are unnecessary, impolitic, fettering, narrowing, an infringement of the liberty of the subject, curtailing private enterprise, calculated to stereotype the individual, to kill orginality, and giving the local Board of Education (not composed of educationists) undue local power, while subjecting the pupils of such schools to ordeals in examinations by strangers which their parents, for physical reasons, wish to spare them. The inspection of all private and secondary schools is beyond criticism. I find " secondary " schools mean only those receiving Government grants, therefore this plea is not for them. I venture to assert that any trained Inspector of Schools can thoroughly inspect a private school by examination of the rolls, the time-tables, the syllabus, by hearing the ordinary lessons, and by noticing the general application of the pupils, the discipline maintained, and by ascertaining the status of the teachers ; and from these data he should be empowered by the Act to certify if the instruction given in such private school "be efficient and regular "or not. Such inspectorial visits would be welcomed by every private school worthy of its existence, and without notice at any time, thus effecting a saving of Inspector's and clerk's and secretary's time, and a saving of printing and issue. The servants of the local Boards of Education must submit to all its by-laws and regulations, seeing they are supported by hat Board ; but the principal of a private school finds his independence intruded upon, his privacy invaded, his responsibility increased thereby, seeing he must satisfy the local Board's Inspector as well as himself and the parents of his pupils. Moreover, his time is greatly occupied in studying and replying to the ever-increasing demands of printed matter arriving by post from the local Board of Education. The Inspector from the local Board, too, may be a neighbour, and the day before he visits the private school may have inspected and examined the neighbouring Board school, affording opportunity of invidious remarks from the "man in the street." The office must be as obnoxious to a refined, cultured Inspector as to the principal of an independent private school. It is self-evident that principals of private schools will employ such teachers and teach such subjects as will command the confidence of their patrons —the public; but if the local Board of Education is ever allowed to dictate what is to be taught and what not taught in private schools, we shall be educating the pupils according to the caprice of an ever-changing Board, and, judging by late years of experimental education, shall sometimes teach no history, sometimes no geography, sometimes only physical and mathematical geography, and always, I fear, without any study of the Bible. Not only will subjects be curtailed by a local Board of Education when it acquires the power, but even the very reading and books of study will be prescribed, and consequently the young people of New Zealand will be in danger of being educated narrowly and illiberally, tending to isolated insularism. Parents and teachers will find their freedom of action limited, the former in the protection of their children from fret and fume of examinations, and the teacher would necessarily find himself limiting his actions to what will please the local Board of Education's Inspector. Under such conditions of servitude to a local Education Board, no inducements will offer to private professors and qualified certified teachers to adopt the profession and responsibility of private schools, which are a distinct gain, and no charge on the Government of the country, seeing it is reckoned £60 per annum is saved the State on every pupil educated at such private schools. It is clear that if all the children of the colony are thus to be educated, all individuality will be erased, and' the pupils will be stamped out like pins in a row or buttons on a card. Alas ! there are worse dangers ahead. What is to protect our children from the regulations of a local Education Board, whose personalia, however good, is ever in transition ? And who can tell what heresies of thought in sociology even may yet appear in its prescribed syllabus, or be infused in the literaturefit may recommend ? All thinkers and educationists agree that originality in the successful teacher is priceless and unpurchasable ; yet it will be perfectly impossible to keep it if the local Boards of Education are to have power to examine pupils of private schools.
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Teachers will aim to please the Inspector —their own impulses retire to the background —matter and methods must be adopted to gain the Inspector's approval. After his visit they feel their wings cut, their self-respect has received a shock, the joy of their work has gone for a long time. Books they are using, though used by the first authorities, must be replaced; such-and-such subjects must receive unnecessary attention, because it is the pet subject of the Inspector then representing the local Education Board. Failure to do this would bring down adverse criticism ; thus originality is crushed, and the moulding to one pattern begins of teacher and taught. As an illustration, take a very successful humorous-minded teacher at home with his pupils, who enjoy all their lessons to the full, and learn like racehorses because of the pleasantries with which their lessons are imparted. Could such a teacher be natural before an Inspector ? Would he not in curtailing his humour be shorn of his originality, and be rendered awkward, as a workman with untried tools ? Such power would be conferred by these examinations on local Boards that private schools of even long and tried experience may be easily ruined by them, by withholding from its pupils certificates of exemption at its sweet will. The hyper-value of examinations is, we know, now much questioned by educationists, physicians, metaphysicians, who know their evils, and the literary and business world have proved their inefficiency, so it seems now out of date to inaugurate a system which shall double the examinations of private schools. For every first-class private school pledges itself to the parents of its pupils to test the success of its work by termly examinations, the results of which —and in some cases the actual papers, the unaided work of the pupil —are submitted to the parents for their investigation. These examinations are necessary to the principal and teacher to enable them to ascertain the success of their work. Then, further examinations by the local Board of Education must prove an overlapping redundancy of examinations, and involve waste of time in several places, and a waste of nerve-strain, on the part of teachers and pupils. Will not the Commission of 1912 initiate a better course than this harassing, obnoxious, fettering, stultifying, stereotyping,"' scheme of examinations of certified private schools Boards of Education ?J|Thus will they ensure to the Government the pecuniary saving accomplished by private enterprise —viz., £60 per annum for each pupil of private schools —and to the certified principals and pupils of such schools the consideration and liberty they ask by removing from the Act the clause which gives local Education Boards undue power over private schools.
Auckland, Saturday-, Bth June, 1912. Blanche Butler examined on oath. (No. 16.) 1. The Chairman.] What are your educational qualifications?--! am a Bachelor of Science of the University of London. I have had five years' teaching experience in England. I was Science Mistress at the Burton-on-Trent School and at the Brighton and Hove High School for Girls. I have been Vice-Principal of the Liverpool College for Girls, Grove Street, Liverpool, and I am at present Principal of the Auckland Girls' Grammar School. 2. Will you kindly state the points that you wish to bring before the Commission?—ln considering the question of primary and secondary- education, 1 would draw your attention to the urgent need for correlation between the primary 7 and secondary systems. Much time is spent in secondary schools in going over the ground covered in the primary schools, in order to teach the children uniformity- of method and style. This want of correlation is particularly felt in the teaching of arithmetic and English. In the latter subject I feel that there is a strange lack of development in the originality of the child. Girls with good memories can reproduce highflown and, for them, unnatural phraseology; but neither they nor their more forgetful sisters have-any command of their own language, or any idea of arranging and expressing their thoughts. I would also urge a wider field of knowledge in English, history, and geography. There are many delightful books written nowadays wdiich present history in an interesting and fascinating aspect to children, and much can be done by the teacher who can tell a story 7 well and graphically, aided by maps, pictures, and other illustrations. I would urge that primary and secondary teachers should meet annually to discuss methods and text-books, so that no time is wasted in the child's school-life, and so that there should be no undoing, or going over the same ground twice. In the teaching of English it seems to me that reading and voice-production must play an important part at first, ft is a great gift to be able to hear oneself, and it seems to me that silent reading can only be cultivated by much reading aloud at first. Rapid silent reading is an easily acquired art, when one has trained the mind not only to absorb by vision, but to impress and vitalize the words by attaching to them sounds. My own experience with even advanced girls (ages sixteen to nineteen) has been that where the subject-matter is dry and difficult the beauty of the language has been useless, owing to the lack of power on the part of the reader to hear and appreciate this beauty as she reads to herself. If the same passage be read aloud to her by a good reader her interest is keen, and her grasp of the subject-matter good; but she is incapable of attacking such reading-matter keenly and interestedly alone, owing, in my opinion, to her lack of the above faculty. This is especially the case with the heavier prose works and poetr} 7 . I would suggest also that much may be done to encourage reading by introducing extracts from well-known authors to supply local colour in all subjects, and by selecting markedly rhythmical and musical prose or poetry for reading aloud. Composition is weak in nearly all cases, and I feel sure that wide reading alone can remedy the weak, diction and lack of originality. The teaching of English grammar is a difficult subject, and I often think that if we aimed at teaching children very little
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actual grammar and much correct speaking and writing during their early years, grammar as grammar could be left out entirely. If it enters into the primary-school curriculum I would h&ya it to be of th emost elementary character —viz., parts of speech, their functions, and the analysis of a simple sentence. If children write well and express themselves well, and are familiar with many of the well-known standard works (suited to their understanding) the extra time (if any) which would be required to make up for this lack of grammar will readily be found, as the pupil will have done a good deal of reading for her age, and will do still more by herself, and so time can be saved in that direction. In the teaching of arithmetic the great difficulty which has to be overcome is variety of method. Also, I think that the syllabus is too wide for the pupil to obtain a thorough grasp of every part of it. In geography I think that we ought to use pictures far more than we do. We should make the peoples of the various parts of the world live before the eyes of the children. Tales of travel and characteristic incidents in the lives of great travellers should be told to the children to awaken their interest and curiosity. As they advance further and reach the secondary schools I am greatly in favour of making it a real field of inquiry, so that the child considers cause and effect, always hunting for the cause when she meets the effect, or, unaware of results, by arraying before her mental vision such facts as she may know, draw possible and probable conclusions; then modifying causes alone need be taught by the teacher. For myself, I feel that wo do not develop the individuality of the girl sufficiently. lam pleading now for the education of girls, for I have no experience and no knowledge of the requirements of the modern boy, although, judging from a general standpoint, many things which apply to his sister apply equally well to the boy. To return to the girl, her time in school is piteously short compared with the amount of ground which she must cover. In the race for examination certificates one is bound to cater for the requirements of the examination, and when a great deal of ground has to be covered in several subjects, it means that a more or less condensed extract of the knowledge required must be prepared by the teacher and presented to the pupil. Personally, I feel that we ought to travel the path of knowledge much more slowly in the first years of a girl's school life (up to the age of sixteen years, say), and develop in her the powers of logical reasoning, ingenuity, observation, and intelligent methods of working. Knowledge, it would seem, should come much more readily, and be of a much more valuable character, when obtained in this way; and once her powers are developed you have a self-reliant, intelligent, human being capable of working, alone or under supervision; and, since she knows how to work, her progress in education will be ten times more rapid than it would otherwise have been, and hence any«delay occasioned by slow progress at first will be more than compensated. But this method of progress requires that she should be in sympathetic hands during this period of evolution. Only those who possess sympathetic understanding of the girl mentally, morally, and physically can bring her to her full perfection. This is true in any system of education —the sympathetic teacher is generally the successful teacher. This brings me to another handicap in the education of the girls. It is customary, I believe, for girls as they get into the upper standards in primary schools to leave their mistresses and to come under the jurisdiction of masters. And this, I think, is not the best thing for the girl. A woman understands women and girls far better than a man does. The man may be a teacher of exceptional ability and a disciplinarian of the first order, but he is always at a disadvantage in dealing with the girl —because, in the first case, he lacks the complete understanding of the woman, and, in the second case, chivalry gives the girl an advantageground of which she is not slow to avail herself. For her moral atmosphere, too. it is wiser that she be placed in the hands of women, and trained to be in the highest sense a womanly woman. Everyday experience teaches one that the grounds on which one appeals to a girl are very different from those on which one would appeal to a boy. Therefore I would strongly urge that women, and women alone, be intrusted with the school education of a girl. A man is the only teacher capable of fully dealing with a boy after infancy; and in the same way a woman, and a woman alone, can educate a girl in every sense during the years of her school-life. I distinctly approve of men specialists for certain subjects, if they are the best teachers to be obtained, but I think that the dominant influence must be woman's. When a girl's ideals are formed, her moral self developed, and her manners a part of herself, then it is immaterial what the teacher is—man or woman— provided that he or she be a good teacher. The girl is then able to discriminate, and to pick out the good, leaving the indifferent or bad alone. I think, therefore, that it would be a very great advantage if in the primary schools girls and boys could be separated, as they are in secondary schools, and the administration of the girls' schools be placed in the hands of capable women. I touched a little earlier in my paper on the over-burdened child from an examination point of view. I am in favour of public examinations being abandoned as part of the girl's school life until she is past the age of sixteen. The internal school examinations should be sufficient to maintain the standard of the work, and if public examinations, such as Matriculation and Junior University Scholarship, are set as standards in the upper part of the school (and even there they should be optional), the work of the school must be progressive, and hance we should not fall in standard. I have placed the age-limit for freedom from examinations at sixteen, because I think that the years from twelve to sixteen are the years of heaviest physical strain. Hence mental development, if forced at this period, will levy a much heavier tax on the girl then than it would do either at an earlier or later period. I deplore very much the necessity of keeping a growing girl in school, hard at work for five hours of the day, and then sending her home to further study varying from one hour and a quarter to two hours and a half at night. Preparation is essential under the present system, and girls stand on exactly the same footing as boys, without being quite so well catered for it in respect of physical exercise. I feel that some very great differentiation ought to be made between the boy and the girl at these ages. The girl must learn, and later she must take her stand shoulder to shoulder with her brothers in the arena of the world's work, and it behoves us to see that her physical strength is husbanded and not overtaxed, Hence I would ask,
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on behalf of the girl, for shorter hours in the lower and middle school, and more physical exercise, and an easier syllabus. In connection with shorter hours, 1 should like to mention a scheme which .-has been in use for many years in the Girls' Public Day School Trust's schools in England. The school period consists of four hours, from 9.15 a.m. to 1.15 p.m. Beyond this the girls are allowed one hour and a half to two hours and a half home-work. This home-work may be done in school (for which there was special provision made, a mistress being on supervision duty from 2.15 to 3.45 p.m. to help any girls who prepared in school). All practical science lessons necessitating periods of one hour and a half or more were given in the afternoon as a rule, and extra lessons to girls in the Sixth Form necessitated by the examination syllabus were also given in the afternoon, if necessary. This system meant that, except in the case of senior girls, no girl was receiving actual tuition in school subjects on more than one afternoon a week. The results obtained by the Trust's schools are, 1 think, sufficient evidence of the efficacy of the system. May I also urge here that the age-limit at which girls can enter as pupil-teachers be raised, as it is possible for a girl under the present system to leave the secondary school, and take up her pupilteachership at an age* which gives her such a short time in the secondary school that the benefits derived are practically nil. While speaking of physical culture I should like to say how extremely useful we find the record cards which we keep for every girl in the school are. Defects in sight and hearing, adenoids, and many other weaknesses have been discovered on examination, and reported to the parents, who have shown themselves to be most grateful for the care taken with the girls. Much remedial work has been done, but there is room for still more, and I think that it would be a distinct advantage if this remedial work could be begun in the primary schools, as defects in vision, adenoids, &c, may begin exceedingly early, and if not discovered until the child reaches the secondary school, they may have become acute. Some may argue that this work does not lie in the province of the school, But that of the home; but where parents are unable for one reason or another to attend to these things, I think that we should come to their assistance for the sake of the child. My object in clearing examinations out of the lower and middle school would be a twofold one: Firstly, it relieves the child from much nervous strain; and, secondly, it gives the school a much freer hand in educating the individual. I know that it is urged that examination-work maintains the standard of work in a way in which nothing else does. But it seems to me that should there be any tendency to slackness it would be overcome by the visits of the Inspectors. Personally, I think that every secondary school should be open to inspection on any day of the week, and, provided that Inspectors were men or women of sound judgment, specialists in their subject, and possessing wide teaching experience, their visits would be welcomed; and they, in consultation with the headmaster or headmistress, would scarcely fail to discover and therefore remedy any tendency to weakness in a teacher. If examinations are to remain as inevitable, I would urge that, in the middle school, a large range of subjects be given, but the number to be taken be fewer, and be treated more fully, and that a higher standard in English be adopted especially. Much discussion has occurred about the training of girls in domestic science. To adopt any definite scheme of specialized training in this subject in primary schools seems to me to be adding to the overcrowding of subjects. But much may be done to train the pupils to take an intelligent interest in the affairs of life, and to accumulate useful practical knowledge, by connecting all teaching as far as possible with the details of everyday life. The value of a subject in teaching depends on the extent of its bearing on everyday life, directly or indirectly. May I illustrate my meaning on this point a little? In mental arithmetic the price of foodstuffs, clothing-materials, land, &c, may be introduced; in geography one meets the produce-markets of the world and their fluctuations; in history one can be taught much of one's own political duties; and in English the field of application is enormous, because we come into contact with the thoughts and experiences of the greatest minds in the world. The position of domestic science in the secondary school seems to be much more definite. It opens up a jnatural field of work for a woman, and one which in this country falls to the lot of every woman, rich or poor. Of the dignity of it I need say nothing, for any course which directly uplifts the standard of home and cares for the health of the community in caring for that of the individual needs no advocate to enlist sympathy or support. To teach cookery and home hygiene, or any other part of domestic science, as distinct school-subjects does not seem to me to meet the need, and also I feel that, in adopting such a course, we should overlap with the technical schools. My idea is to introduce domestic science in a form in which it will be extremely practical, and supply a school want. As many people are aware, schools such as the Grammar School draw many pupils from the country, and the question of suitable boarding-places for these pupils presents a very real difficulty to parents. I purpose, therefore, to lay befoi-e the Board the following scheme (which has at present only been discussed by myself and the Treasurer) : That a house suitable to contain twenty boarders should be rented by the Board as near the school as possible, and that this house be placed in the hands of a fully qualified domestic science mistress under my own supervision, and that the work of this house, from sweeping and cleaning to finance, afford the practical training for the domestic-science course. In this way I feel that the girls will meet in a natural way the true difficulties of home-management, and learn to overcome them. At the same time the presence of a fully qualified house-mistress and my own daily visits should, I think, safeguard the boarders from suffering any discomfort. I feel that there is another great want in our secondary schools, and that is pure undenominational scripture-teaching. There is no lesson in which direct moral teaching can be given as it can be in a Bible lesson. After school hours much may be done by the few who are willing and anxious to give up their time. But many things occur which prevent the regular attendance of girls at outside classes, and in consequence many girls are debarred from receiving any instruction of this sort. Many parents approve of it, and are glad for the girls to avail themselves of it; and I maintain that it is an important factor in the upbringing of a child. In my own schools, on inquiry among 430 girls,
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I found that there were only some sixty refusals on the part of parents to allow them to attend Scipture classes after school, and of these very few objected to Scipture teaching; the majority asked that their daughters might be excused from attending, as they had long distances to travel, and it made them very late in arriving home if they stayed after school. 1 would have it very clearly understood that the teaching should be strictly undenominational. The teacher cannot alter the facts of the Bible stories, and the lessons to be obtained from these stories are countless and sublime, and furnish a stimulus for the best in human nature. I would not have attendance at Scripture lessons compulsory. Liberty of conscience is every one's right; but I think that the number of those who did not attend would be small in proportion to those who did attend, and I feel sure that a very material help in the tone of the school will have been given, and also a closer union obtained between teacher and scholar. I would suggest that parallel lessons be arranged for those girls whose parents objected to their receiving Scripture teaching. In closing this paper I should like to put in a plea for those who carry on the all-important work of teaching. 1 feel that they are worthy of a better hire. Teaching, properly done, is an exceedingly- exacting profession, and heavy toll is paid by the conscientious teacher for the knowledge imparted to his or her pupils, and also for the training given. I think, therefore, that the material life of a teacher should be made as easy as possible. The salaries given do not admit of much relaxation —they are excellent factors in economy. The cost of living in New Zealand is high, and in proportion everything else is high, and hence I think that professional salaries should be high too. I am not pleading now for such people as myself—l consider that as I was engaged at a definite salary to do a definite work it is immaterial whether my school contained ten or a thousand pupils, I should feel that I was just as much bound to do the work in one case as the other at the same salary. lam speaking on behalf of my assistant mistresses. Individual increments are granted by the local governing bodies as far as possible, I know, but these do not meet the requirements of the case. I think the scale of salaries throughout the Dominion requires to be raised. Teaching will not suffer because teachers are better paid —rather, I think, it should improve. 3. Mr. Davidson.] I notice that you suggest a closer correlation between the primary schools and the secondary schools in reference to the course of study. Would you favour the primary, technical, and secondary education of the Dominion being placed under one controlling body in each district?—l would, because it would be continuous in that case. 4. When you speak of conferences of primary and secondary teachers, are you aware that there is an organization known as the New Zealand Educational Institute? —I do not think sufficient advantage is taken of it. 5. Would you recommend that the basis of the membership of the Institute should be widened so that it should embrace both primary and secondary teachers ?—Certainly. 6. The Chairman.] Would you go further and say that if the control of all the branches of education in New Zealand were placed in the hands of one controlling body the same opportunity should be given to all teachers to meet?— Certainly. I think it would be very advantageous, and would lead to more uniformity of method and a great general improvement in education. 7. Mr. Davidson.] Do you not think that if boys and girls were taught together it would tend to refine the nature of the boy and get rid of the silliness and namby-pambyisin that is frequently found in girls where they are kept apart from boys? —I do. The question of co-educa-tion lies in the hands of the teacher. If the dominant influence of the teacher is sufficient to have boys and girls under his complete control co-education is possible. But there is only one teacher in a thousand who can meet the needs of the boy and the girl sufficiently to bring out the best in both, and to dovetail them together so that they 7 shall reap mutual advantage. My own experience is that the girl under the present system loses much in refinement through mixing so much with her brothers. She is roughened and coarsened in her early years in that way. The fault does not lie in the teacher. He has so many to deal with that it is impossible to look after them. I am afraid that co-education instead of decreasing the silliness rather increases it, because complete supervision is impossible. 8. If the classes in a mixed school were not too large and care were taken in the choice of the teachers, would not co-education be a good thing? —Yes, certainly, if you can get that ideal teacher, the one in a thousand; but Ido not think you will get him frequently enough. 9. Do you think that in primary schools where women are in charge of the classes co-education is a good thing ?—Only in the case of infants. Just as I maintain that a man cannot meet the needs of the girl, I do not think a woman can altogether meet the needs of the boy. 10. Seeing that young boys and girls while in the infant-room becomes chums and friends, does it not seem hard to separate them when they go into the higher standards? Would you not carry their association a little further than the infant-room? —When I speak of infants I mean children up to the age of even ten. I think that from ten onwards the boys and girls should be separated. 11. In our primary schools the average age in Standard I is about eight, in Standard II about nine, and in Standard 111 about ten. 'So you would favour the bo\ 7 s and girls being in charge of a woman until they reach the Third Standard? —Yes. 12. You mention that probationers are generally too young and insufficiently educated before they enter our primary schools? —What I meant to imply was that they have not had time to take full advantage of the course in the secondary schools. They have not stayed long enough in the secondary schools. 13. Would you make it one of the requirements that they should matriculate before becoming probationers? —Yes, particularly in the case of the girl, for under the present system while she is teaching she is also studying. It is a double strain. 14. Mr. Pirani? I think you have been mixing up probationers and pupil-teachers?—l refer to the pupil-teacher.
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i 5. Mr. Davidson.] Would you make it compulsory that free-place holders should remain in the secondary school at least two years ?—With this proviso : that it should be at the discretion ■ef the headmaster or headmistress. It seems to me that if we gave them a term, or even two terms, of probation we could do much weeding-out which would be of advantage to the child, because we could probably send her to technical classes or something else to greater advantage; and it would, also be to the advantage of the school, because we could get rid of those who did not work satisfactorily. 16. Do you claim the right for the headmaster or headmistress in a secondary school to refuse to receive the free-place holder? —After a term of probation; but I think that right should be exercised very seriously —that we should have very good grounds for refusing. 17. It would be placing a great power in the hands of the master or mistress? —Yes, and 1 think we ought to bring forward very sound evidence that we were right in our decision. 18. The Chairman.] Would you be inclined to suggest that that power should take the form of a report to the Education Board? —Yes. Now one cancels a free place only on very grave grounds by a report to the Education Department. 19. Mr. Wells.] In speaking of the command of language possessed by the pupils, I suppose you are making conscious or unconscious comparison with the pupils at Home?— Pupils of the same age. 20. And from the same class of homes? —No. I take that into account to some extent, but 1 think much could be done in the school to bring the atmosphere of the lower school in the English high school or secondary school into the primary method of teaching. In our high schools at Home we begin with the children in the kindergarten, which is a much better introduction into school life than the primary- school. It must also be taken into account that they come, as a rule, from more cultured homes. It seems to me that if the children were allowed to talk to the teachers, to arrange their own ideas—to be corrected in diction —they would unconsciously gain greater facility in collecting their thoughts and setting them out. It now takes a long time to get at the real thoughts of the child, and a much longer time to get her to express them in an orderly fashion. 21. You recognize that under our very liberal system of free places we draw pupils for the secondary schools from homes where practically no reading is done, and. where children hear very little higher-class conversation : bearing that in mind, do you think the language of the pupils is less refined than you could reasonably expect?—l think we are speaking of two different things. When I speak of command of language lam thinking of the language the children dress their thoughts in. The ordinary every-day language in conversation between child and child is perhaps better than at Home, because they have wider fields of conversation here; but the children's means of expressing what they feel is not as far advanced as it might be. 22. Do you not think the lack of formal grammar is felt in the secondary school when the teaching of a foreign language is entered upon ?—Hardly, I think, because we start at the beginning in English grammar with them. 23. You spoke of the waste of time in the case of pupils really unsuited to your work. Would there be any if there were more consultation between the headmaster or mistress of the primary school and the parents as to whether the child should take up secondary or technical work under the free place?—l think that if the parent and the headmaster or mistress and the teacher who had most to do with the child were to meet, you would find that the parent would be willing to be influenced by the teachers, and that much good would be done in that way. 24. And that consultation might be made practically compulsory?— Yes, 25. You think there is a good deal of waste of public money at present?—lt seems to me so. 26. When you speak of the syllabus as being wide, do you mean that of the primary school? —I referred to both the primary and secondary syllabus. In both cases we cover too much ground. 27. Could you offer any suggestion as to the way.in which the primary-school syllabus might be improved?—To begin with, I am very much in favour of limiting the syllabus with regard to arithmetic. Speaking from our own experience, we would far rather know that the girls coming from the primary schools were well instructed up to vulgar fractions and decimals only,, and that we could go on from that stage. But they come to us after going over a very wide area, and we find that we have to go over the ground and unpick other people's work. Also, if we could feel that in the primary schools the children were only reading and learning to express their thoughts clearly, we could work to much greater advantage in English than we do. We do not know what they have done, and after setting a certain course we find that there are gaps which we have to fill up. Gaps are bound to occur until we as educationalists have fought the matter out. In geography, too, we think that many facts are taught in the primary schools, but I would have them deal with certain parts of the world only, and with certain sections of physical geography, but not very much; then let them come to the secondary school and continue the course. 28. Do you find much difference in the standards of work of the children who have come from the large city and suburban schools? —Not so much difference in standard as in quality. The work is of the same standard, but there is a very great difference in the quality. 29. With regard to examinations, do you think it would be possible to combine the Matriculation and Junior Civil Service Examinations? —I do not think so, because at present the standards of the two are quite different, and the syllabuses of the two are rather different; they are aiming at two different ends. I am in favour of the Junior Civil Service Examination being retained as an entrance examination to certain positions to which juniors are admitted, but I think the Matriculation Examination should be what it was intended to be —the avenue to the University course.
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30. Are you in favour of no person being engaged as a pupil-teacher until he or she has matriculated '! —l am greatly in favour oi tiiat. ~. 31. What do you think should be the limit of a secondary school as regards attendance? — 1 see no occasion for any limit if the schools can be properly staffed. It is as easy to work a school of one thousand, if it is properly staffed, as a school of two hundred and fifty. 32. But .could the head teaciier exercise the same influence in a large school as in a small one.' —One would have departments, and one's influence would be exercised through one's organization. 33. But could there be the same personal influence?—l think you could find time to do a great deaf. One advantage would be that for a bigger school one could have a better staff. 34. The Chairman.] You think there would be no subtraction of the personal infiuence of the head teacher so long as the staffing was sufficient to meet the requirements of the enlarged school?— 1 do think so. 35. Would you be in favour of a Dominion scaie of salaries for secondary schools? —I think so. 36. Mr. Pirani.] With regard to Scripture teaching : is there anything now to prevent you taking the Bible as an ordinary- reading-book in your school during school hours?—l do not think there is. But do you think that that would be putting the Bible in quite the proper position? Personally I would hardly like to bring it into that position. 37. With regard to the tests for pupils entering the school: would j.t not be much better if, instead of waiting for a period of probation in your school, the test were applied before the pupils went to your school at all—in the school in which the teachers are already familiar with their capabilities?— Yes, but there will be doubtful cases even after that weeding-out has been done. There will be cases of children who give a certain amount of promise and seem to be worthy of secondary education and y-et who will fail in the first or second year. 38. Do you not think there ought to be more weeding-out than at present before they come to you 2 —Yes. 39. If there were one controlling authority for primary, secondary, and technical schools, would it not be a better system for the Inspectors and headmasters to define what the secondary course of each pupil should be —whether it should be in a technical school or a secondary school? — Provided that the controlling body took into consideration the opinions of the teachers. 40. With regard to matriculation, do you not think that a system of leaving-certificates given by the principals of the secondary schools to the pupils they consider sufficiently- qualified to go to the University would be better than the present entrance examination? —Yes; but, again, there would be the difficulty of the individual standard. 41. With regard to the question of co-education : do you think there is any real difficulty before the age of twelve, either educationally or otherwise, in co-education ?—I do not think that at Home there would be a difficulty, but I think here there would be, because you have to take into account the fact that a girl here matures very much faster than at Home and is much older for her age. A child of thirteen at Home is no older in many respects than a child of ten here. 42. But has a girl of twelve begun to have the physical strain that differentiates her from a boy?—l think so in many cases. We have found that so. 43. From the age of ten to the age of sixteen you think that difficulty would occur?— Yes, I think she should be in the hands of a woman then. 44. Do you see much objection to have it together from sixteen to nineteen years of age? — None at all, provided the girls have been well brought up. 45. The Chairman.] I have assumed, rightly or wrongly, that your answer to the question about the inspectorate implied the need for women Inspectors in secondary schools and in the primary schools if the division you contemplate were carried out? —Yes. When I said there is a need for women Inspectors, again I think that the individual qualifications necessary should be only ability. I do not think, for example, we should split the work and say that women should take these subjects and the men those. 46. And in reference to these suggested boarding establishments, would it not be an advantage, if they proved to be necessary, that they should be under the direct control of the Board, and really be a hostel within the school-grounds? —That is to be preferred. 47. Coming so recently from England, I suppose you know something about the practical work of the kindergarten in the primary schools in Liverpool ? —Yes 48. Would you, as one familiar-with the benefits of the kindergarten, suggest its engrafting on the public school system of this Dominion? —Certainly. James William Tibbs examined on oath. (No. 17.) 1. The Chairman.] What are your qualifications? —I am a M.A. of Oxford, and lam headmaster of the Auckland Grammar School. 2. You have been headmaster for how many years I—Nineteen1 —Nineteen years. 3. Will you please state what you have to say in regard to the subject-matter of this Commission ? From what I have heard during the last few days I am more than ever impressed with the importance of a sound primary education as a foundation. I think Education Boards should be relieved of the responsibility of managing secondary schools and technical instruction. The Boards are at present elected from School Committees. They should be strengthened by the addition of expert members. I would suggest that other members should be added to Education Boards from superannuated teachers and Inspectors, and that they should be elected by the local Educational Institute. We shall have in the country presently a great body of matured experts in educational matters, and I think the country should make some use of them. With regard to secondary education, I would mention the Auckland Grammar School Board as a very good model for Boards. It consists of ten members—the Mayor, three members elected by members of Parliament for the Auckland District, three by the University of New Zealand, and three by the Auckland Education Board. In this way both university and primary education are
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represented on the Board. I think there should be systems of secondary schools throughout the country, consisting of a main central school with several subsidiary schools. I think the latter -ehould receive only junior free-place pupils. I think the main school should be a complete school receiving both senior and junior free-place pupils, and as population increased these subsidiary schools should, I think, grow into main schools. I should like to make a short reference to the waste..pf effort throughout the Dominion in having small highest classes in many schools. I have heard of a well-endowed secondary school in the South where the number in the Sixth Form consisted of only two pupils, and the most advanced master had to be used to teach these two pupils. I think that is a great waste of effort. I have suggested to my own Board that the new Grammar School should be looked upon as a main school, and that we should have about the Auckland suburban district a number of subsidiary schools. I think, if the Education Board is relieved of technical instruction, that a Technical Board should be formed, to consist of members of the Education Board, members of the Council and Professorial Board of the local University College, and of industrial members. I am in favour of separate Boards, and not of one central Board, because it is to the advantage of the country to have as many of the leading citizens as possible interested in education, and the central Board would thus become too large to be workable. By having power and higher education represented on secondary and technical Boards, there should be no needless competition or overlapping between the several parts of the education system of the Dominion. I would like to say something about vocational schools. Ido not approve of the proposal to introduce vocational courses into the secondary schools. Very few boys make up their minds about their future calling until they are about to leave school, and it is well not to hurry them, for frequently they develop quite late in their school career some special aptitude for a particular calling. I am much concerned at the proposal that all our secondary schools should provide courses in agriculture. I have looked into the rural course suggested by the Auckland Education Board and based on the circular from the central Department, and I find that to give a moderate-sized class practical work in these things—in digging, trenching, hoeing, raking, draining, and cultivation of vegetables, treatment of light and heavy soils, succession of crops, study of noxious weeds, the pruning of fruit-trees, the planting of hedges and ornamental trees, and a host of other things —would require all the vacant ground at our present site in Symonds Street as well as the acres recently granted to us at Mount Eden for a new site, and that would be to the exclusion of any share in the ground of all boys not taking part in that particular course. Besides, lam an old gardener, and I have no confidence whatever in the way book-taught teachers of agriculture and horticulture would handle the subject. My opinion of school-gardens is that they are a pleasant hobby for those scholars who are incapable of taking part in school games, but their value to the farming industry is and will remain practically nil; and I think the ground devoted to them would be much better used for fives-courts and other games. Many of our Auckland Grammar School boys are going on the land, and I think that the power to work and think which they have acquired by means of a good general education will be of more service to them in rural life than pottering round plots in the school-yard. I think, if the Government is anxious to further the cause of agriculture and horticulture amongst young people in rural districts, it could do it most economically by means of subsidies to the societies which arrange rural exhibitions, or by offering prizes for fruit, butter, and other products. The idea of school-gardens is not altogether a recent one. It was tried here many years ago by Bishop Selywn at St. John's College. I looked up the life of Bishop Selwyn and I found he had three classes of students. Under the heading of " Active Employments " the classes were as follows : (1.) Gardeners in the lower school : the duties to be—care of the flower-gardens and apiary, weeding, picking, hand sowing, propagation of choice plants and seeds. (2.) Foresters belonging to the upper school: their duties being—care of the woods and plantations and roading, clearing, road-making, fencing, propagation of choice trees, seasoning timber, &c. (3.) Farmers belonging to the adult school, whose duties related to agriculture in all its branches and the care of stock. This was a delightful vision of Bishop Selwyn , s, but it came to nothing. There is one thing I would like to say about nature-study in the primary school. I think it may be introduced very much too early, and I think there is a good deal of injudicious teaching of nature-study. I do not know whether the Commission has heard of the story of a child who staggered his parents by objecting to porridge because the grain scratched the alimentary canal, and who, when he had a cold, said his diaphragm was strained; but T have come across an example of that kind of priggishness in the child of a friend of my own. This composition was written by a Standard II child in this province : " Inside the seed coat or testa of the bean seed are the radicle, the plumale, and the seed-cases. At one end of the hilum or sear there is the micropyle or little gate through which come the root and the shoot. The bean plant belongs to the class of plants called dicotyledons —di, many, and cotyledons, meaning seed leaves." I think that is an example of the tendency to priggishness in a child, or in the teacher. I would like to say a few words on where I think the primary school fails as a preparation for secondary work. I inquire year after year of the boys that come to the Grammar School as to how far they have been exercised in home-work, and I find that most of the schools have no home-work, and that the pupils from the few who do rapidly outclass the others. T think it is deplorable that boys of fifteen should be allowed to waste their evenings as many are doing. They have no idea whatever of doing anything for themselves away from the discipline of the school. Most of them are quite willing to do home-work when they get into the way of it. It takes them a little time at first, and the parents, I think, soon grow interested in the boy's progress in home-work. Many of them I find make a good deal of sacrifice to give a boy a room apart from the rest of the family in which to study undisturbed. That is common in very small homes. I think there would be a marked advance and more general parental interest in education if there was recourse to systematic home-work in the primary schools. I have discussed the matter with several headmasters. They say the classes are so large that it would be impossible to look over the written work; but surely
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poetry could be learned, and such things as grammar, political geography, history, and more written work done during the day might be corrected at night. I think home-work would exercise a salutary moral influence on the city life: the boys would not be running about the streets so much. - Besides, it would help to get the greatest possible good out of our liberal system of education. I think, speaking from my point of view as a secondary-school master, that manual and technical training should be left for continuation classes. I know very little about the primary schools, but it seems to me from what I have seen about the streets that there is too much running about during the day, too much broken time, and that seems likely to be on the increase. If you have swimming, gardening, woodwork, and other hobbies like that in school hours 1 think the boys tend to get very unsettled. I think there is a great want, again, from a secondary-school point of view, of a little formal grammar. I would not ask for too much. I think the boys should know the parts of speech, and should know the difference between a transitive and intransitive verb, active and passive, and subject and object. I think all should know something of political geography, and certainly the outlines of English history. I have summarized what I think should be the best preparation for us. I think that a boy should read fluently and with average intelligence; work elementary rules of arithmetic with accuracy and rapidity; write neatly and correctly from dictation; express himself in tolerably correct language; know the elements of English history and grammar; and have some acquaintance with the geography of our Empire and the chief countries of the world. I should like to say a word about the teaching of Latin. I see from a report that the Inspector-General introduced the subject. I do not want the Commission to attach undue importance to the opinion of the headmaster of Sherborne School. Of course, I do not know the present headmaster of. Sherborne. I remember one headmaster, and the present headmaster I think must be a man of very different type. I wonder whether the present one is a high and dry mathematician who lacks the saving grace of an academic education, or, I was going to say, a classical enthusiast who has been soured by failure to get the average boy to write Latin verse. I was tempted to think that the Inspector-General might almost have forgotten how much he owed to classical education, till I remembered that he still retains a great affection for the poet Horace, having recently presented me with a charming little pocket edition of Horace. I maintain that Latin holds positively the same relation to the literary side of education that the study of mathematics holds to the scientific, and that, if Latin is to be no longer a general subject in higher education, mathematics should also become a special subject. In this way, too, the two most solid subjects of secondary education would be removed at a time when their steadying influence is most needed to save the schoolboy from " being blown about with every wind of doctrine." In my opinion, the main object of education is to enable a person to weigh the best words and thoughts of others with a view to think correctly himself and to give accurate expression to his thoughts. And it seems to me that Latin in the domain of literature, and mathematics in that of science, are as effective educational agents as have yet been found. It is to be noted that two such practical nations as Germany and Scotland have always given Latin a prominent place in their schemes of higher education. The Inspector-General said that in most schools all that was taught was the grammar and a scrap of an author. I have brought here copies of the last terms papers set in two forms at the Grammar School. One is for the Upper VI, and there are nine questions on the paper. Question 3 is on antiquities —viz., " Describe Roman burial customs, and quote from Aen. VI to illustrate your answer." Question 4 is a piece of sight translation, and question 5 is, " Explain fully all the historical allusions in question 4." Question 8 is, " Describe briefly the events of the second Macedonian War, and show how the settlement effected led to the Syrian War." The ninth question consisted of questions of mythology, currency, and legal procedure. In the paper for Forn IIIa for the first term this year question 7 is, " Explain— Tertia vigilia; ad nonam horam; navis longa. Why did Csesar invade Britain? " These are questions on the subject-matter, and I mention these to show that in some schools more than mere grammar and a scrap of an author is taught. These papers were set by the classical master, Mr. Turner. I am sorry he was not able to appear before the Commission, but he has prepared a sketch of his work, and I will ask him to send it in. I just wish to say a word about examinations. A good deal has been said about the evil of examinations. I wish to say a word in their favour. I think they are a healthy tonic to both teacher and.pupil; without them neither would know exactly where he is. I am sure the average boy enjoys an examination if the papers ,a-re not too long; it makes a break in the monotony of school life, and it encourages a boy to make a very useful revision of his work. In the award he has something to show as the result of his term's work. If he cannot always boast of a good place for himself, he has generally a school chum or two whose success brings credit on the little set. I would also say that the speculation as to what questions will be set appeals to the sporting instincts in the boys. lam quite sure that the examination week at the Grammar School is very far from being an unhappy week. As regards public examinations, the great number of our boys take two —one at the end of the second year and one for a leaving-certificate. Of course, those who go on for a University scholarship generally have three, because they go up twice. Ido not think that examinations are overdone in the secondary schools. I would like now to say a word about scholarships. There is not the same need for junior scholarships that existed before the establishment of free education, but I think that many should still be given, though of smaller value, for both town and country boys. I think if scholarships of .£5 were given for town boys and £30 for country boys—that is, with their free education —it would be sufficient. I think that boys who are able to go home for the week ends should not receive full boarding-allowance, as is now given here. I have known cases where boj r s actually made a sort of small income out of the boarding-allowance. One reason why I think scholarships should be retained is that it is desirable to stimulate boys to do their best all through the system. I think the hope of getting a scholarship stimulates many a boy who might be inclined to do just enough to get through his examinations. I think it would be very advisable to increase the number of senior district scholarships here. I have always thought that, because senior district scholarships are for boys under sixteen,
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and that is just the time when parents are finding it most difficult to keep their boys at school. 1 do not want to see all the scholarships going to country- boys, because there is a good deal of --honour and kudos to be got in the winning of a scholarship, and I do not think that should belong exclusively to the country children. As to the age for free places, in the original regulations the age was under fourteen on the Ist day of December, but that was afterwards raised to fifteen. 1 think that-was a very great mistake. I think that if a free place is held on a Sixth Standard certificate of proficiency it should be given to boys under thirteen, and ever}- one older than thirteen should be made to take the Department's examination. I do not think that it should be made too easy. I think boys particularly should be made to work a little bit for these things. Perhaps a country boy might be allowed his extra year. I think boys should be encouraged to come at under thirteen. In that way they would get through their school career very much earlier —many might finish their school career at sixteen, and so go either to the technical colleges or the University much earlier. 4. Mr. Wells.] I would like to know your opinion as to the need for a training college for the training of secondary-school teachers? —I like to get into the Grammar School somebody who has had some experience of teaching. We have one young man, who I hope will be a master with us presently, who has been a demonstrator for some time. We generally have two or three demonstrators in the school in our science department, and I get them to take a little teaching occasionally, and in that way they get some experience. 5. Have you had much experience with men who have had training in teaching in the primary schools? —Not a great deal. 6. Enough to express any opinion?— No. Most of my masters have come from other secondary schools. 7. You expressed the opinion that you are opposed to the one authority controlling primary, secondary, and technical education? —Yes, lam distinctly against that. I think it would be far too much to entrust to one body of men. 8. You do not think it would make it easier to obtain trained teachers in the secondary schools —that it would offer openings to men in the primary schools who obtain degrees to get into the secondary schools? —I do not think that would affect it at all. We have a }'oung man just appointed who was through the Training College and had a short experience in the primary school. I think they will come to us now if they want to. 9. Would not such a system also afford more scope to the teachers in the secondary schools by enabling them to go to headmasterships in the primary schools? —Are they debarred at present? 10. They do not appear on the grading-list? —I am not aware that they would want to go to a primary school. I think they would probably apply for a headinastership of the other second schools in the Dominion. The number of secondary schools is growing, and I think they will grow very considerably indeed owing to the free-place system. 11. Would you approve of a Dominion scale of salaries for the second ary-school assistants?— No. I think that should be left to the Boards of Governors. 12. Are you in favour of the accrediting system for children from primary schools of good repute? —No, I am in favour of junior and senior free places being won by examination. 13. Do you find much waste of effort at the Grammar School in the way of boys entering the Grammar School who are not fit for a grammar-school course and who would do much better at a technical school? —I do not think so. I think if they had home-work it would be all right. The great trouble is that they are not used to home work, and it is very difficult in the first month or two to get them to do it. 14. Do you think the boys who enter the Grammar School should be under an obligation to spend a certain time there? —No. 15. Do you find that many leave in the first year, and that their cost is practically thrown aw ay? J do'not think a year's education at the Grammar School is thrown away, and not a great number leave. ... 16. Are you conscious of any overlapping in any way between the secondary and technical schools? —No. . 17. There has been some comparison made before us m regard to the standard now and the standard, say, ten or fifteen years ago in the pupils who enter the Grammar School : would you o-ive us your'opinion on that point?-Do the best of our primary-school boys now compare favourably with the scholarship boys you got, say, fifteen years ago ?—They are equal, I think, certainly. Of 'course, they vary from year to year. The best boys of this year were noticeably inferior to the best boys of last year. 18. Striking an average? —I should think they are quite equal. 19 What is your idea about the maximum size of a grammar school? — I do not think there should be any limit, but I think it is possible the school may ultimately- become very unwieldy. I think the present size of my school is not too great. There are great advantages in having a large school, because you can grade very much better. 20 The Chairman.} Given greater numbers, the only thing necessary, in your opinion, would be better staffing to deal with these numbers?— Yes, and a larger building. 21. Mr. Kirk.] Quite apart from the additional educational value of home-work, do you think it exercises a good corrective influence?— Certainly. 22 And for that reason as well as the other you advocate home-work?— Yes. 23~ Do you see anything in the suggestion that is sometimes made that home-work may detrimentally interfere with the health of those undertaking it?—No, I think there is nothing 24. And your experience bears that out?— Yes. It is very rarely I find a boy ill from homework, and if I do I very soon let him off it. _ . 25 Do you think that the introduction into the secondary schools and the allowing of boys to take at' an early age such optional subjects as book-keeping, shorthand, and typewriting are in the
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best interests of the students in the school? —I do not think that typewriting and shorthand should be introduced in the secondary schools. The} 7 are technical subjects. We teach book-keeping as an optional subject in the forms where Latin is not taught. 26. Would 3-0U let us have your opinion as to the general moral tone of the school, or schools if you can speak of them, compared with the general moral tone that prevailed in the past in 3 7 our experience?—T think that the moral tone of the Grammar School is decidedly good. I have had experience in an English school and in another school in the Dominion, and I think it is as good here as in England and elsewhere in the Australasian colonies. 27. Mr. Poland.] You started by saying you were impressed with the importance of a sound primary education, and later you said you thought thirteen years was old enough for a pupil to pass on to a secondary school?— For the bright ones. 1 said I thought the Sixth Standard certificate should be the test for a boy under thirteen, i think boys under' fourteen should take what I think is the harder test —the Department's examination, 28. Do you not think, that boys and girls of the age of thirteen who, after being given a further opportunity, may prove very bright and able children should not have the advantage of an extra year at the primary school?—I think they would do better by coming to us earlier. 29. Would you suggest they should be left longer with you?— Yes. I think the boys who come to us under thirteen have under the present regulations their junior free place extended for a third year if there is any need. I may mention that the Rawling Scholarship-holders—we have two of them generally each year —come to us at under twelve, and they have done very well. 30. For how long have they come?— They generally get a senior district scholarship, and they- stay on and get into the University section. I mention that as an instance of children coming under twelve from the primary schools. 31. Mr. Davidson.] Do you find that boys coming from the primary schools are somewhat overcome with the work of the secondar}- schools, particularly in mathematics and languages—the subjects that they have not touched in the primary school?— Certainly not. 32. You do not think it is necessaiy that elementary mathematics should be taught in the upper standards of the primary schools? —I think it would be a very good thing indeed if it could be taught. I think it would be a very good thing if some algebra were taught there. 33. Do y-ou think it would be possible to teach something of elementary mathematics, such as algebra and geometry, in connection with the arithmetic in the Fifth and Sixth Standards in the primary school? —I should not like to see arithmetic spoiled in any way. It is very- necessary that the standard of the arithmetic should be kept up, but I should prefer to see elementary mathematics brought in rather than some of the subjects taught there. 34. I have here a course of study in a high school in which there are three divisions—(l) a classical and English course, (2) a commercial course, and (3) a mechanical arts course. Do you think that would be a desirable course of study in a secondary school?—No, I think the course for mechanical arts should belong to a technical school. 35. But you would have two —classical and commercial—possibly in the same school?— 1 think they would be very good optional courses. 36. Mr. Hogben.] Do you take the view that Mr. A. C. Benson takes, that Latin is a special subject? —I do not. I think it is a subject of general training in secondary schools. 37. You do not think it is a vocational subject? —Certainly not. 38. You do not think that by teaching Latin and other subjects taught at the present time you are really giving a boy a bias towards literature and professional pursuits and away from other pursuits?— No. Some of the best scientists have been good classics. I will give you one example of a good classical training : I will take the Right Hon. James Bryce, who was through here the other day. He is a F.R.S. and a man of the widest possible sympathies. 39. You do not think the best way of getting the most suitable boys for free places would be by consultation between the people concerned —namely, his former headmaster, his future headmaster, and the parent?—No, I think it is impossible to get a consultation. 40. And you do not think that the accrediting system would be the best system?—No, I believe in the examination system. 41. The Chairman.] Touching home lessons so far as the secondary- course is concerned, are yoli not aware that there was at one time a considerable outcry on the part of parents against the prevalence of home lessons?—l do not'know that the parents objected very much. 42. Are you not aware that in a good many cases the inability of the average father to provide the necessary accommodation for his child, so that he might do justice to himself at home, was the reason for the objection?—l am not aware of it. 43. You said you did not regard swimming as a thing that should be practised in schools, and you spoke of it as a hobby. Now, in a country that is largely troubled with dangerous rivers, do you not think that in the primary schools at all events, and in the secondary schools, swimming should be practised and made a compulsory subject?—l do not think so, in school hours. I think that many lives are lost through people being able to swim a little. They become too venturesome. 44. I understand that you prefer that the administration of the several branches of national education should be undertaken by distinct governing bodies. Have the parents of the children attending y 7 our school any representation on the governing body?— None whatever. 45. Is it desirable they should have? —I think not, 46. From the fact that it is suggested that the Education Boards of the future should be directly elected from the people b3 7 popular franchise, would that have the effect in your judgment of strengthening the personnel of the boards instead of being elected as they now are by School Committeemen? —I think they should be elected by the School Committeemen in preference to the w 7 ider franchise. 4-7. You have no experience yourself of the quality of the men who offer under the present system? —No, I know very little oi the primary system. [Note. —Mr. Tibbs's evidence on the subject of sexual physiology will be found in the exhibits in the Appendix dealing with that question.]
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Auckland, Monday, 10th June. — Richard Crowe examined on oath. (No. 18.) 1. The Chairman.} What is your position?—l am Secretary of the Auckland Education Board, which position I have occupied for three years, including a year of temporary secretaryship - prior to my- regular appointment. I have been in the service of the Board for twenty-nine years. 2. What are the points upoii which you wish to address the Commission? —-The first point to which I wish to address myself is the staffing of the schools, and intimately connected with that is the question of the scarcity of teachers. There is at present a great scarcity of teachers in the Auckland District. Some sixty-four students were released from the Training College after their course of training at the beginning of the present year. Of these, fifty-eight were absorbed and in employment before the end of February, and before the end of March the remainder were all employed. We have at least 250 uncertificated teachers in the employment of the Board. One of the chief causes of this condition of affairs is what I must cali the generous staffing of the Grade 4 schools at one end of the grade. At the other end of the grade the staffing is not at all generous. A school with an average of thirty-six children for the year is entitled to an assistant beginning at .690 a year. We have a number of schools where the average is always about thirtysix—running from thirty-six to forty. Altogether we have 135 Grade 4 schools, and I should say that in the great majority of these the average is less than fifty. One of the greatest causes of the difficulty of finding teachers is the position which was created three 3 7 ears ago b3* the Act of 1908. Another point that I would like to emphasize is the fact that we have a rapidly growing district, and the regulations make no provision for the case that 1 mention. I will take a typical case— that of Waihi South. The Board found it necessary to enlarge the school, and the average roll, I think, was from 150 to 190 at the beginning of one quarter. A telegram to this effect came to us from the head teacher, and we proceeded to appoint an additional teacher, and we asked the Department to find a salary for that teacher. The Department informed me that it could not be done, so we had to pay that extra teacher out of the relieving fund. That sort of thing has happened in three other instances. We find very great difficulty in getting suitable teachers for district high schools. The salaries are not sufficiently attractive to get teachers who are really qualified to do the work of these schools. Coming to the question of the size of the district, it is now so largo that it is fairly difficult to administer. There is a considerable area of newly settled country between Te Kuiti and Owhango. Settlement is extending on both sides of the railway towards the east and west, and for want of roads the country is exceedingly difficult of access. Several grants have been made for the erection of schools in that district, but we have found it impossible to build the schools for anything like the amount available. In one or two instances the prices exceeded the grants by fully 75 per cent. On account of the want of roads the material has to be packed at a cost of something like 12s. or 14s. per cwt. In one case we found it impossible to build even a shelter-shed school. This is a new idea —a school with a lean-to roof and windows and sarking, fairly comfortable for temporary use, which would ultimately be used as a sheltershed when they come to build a proper school. It was estimated that these shelter-shed schools could be built for about £80 each, but on endeavouring to carry out the idea we found that in that district it could not be done for the money. 3. Mr. Hogben.] What would that school cost to build? —Something like £120 or £130, or possibly £150. The grant of the Department would under ordinary conditions have been a splendid one, but this year the weather broke up early, and we found it impossible to get the material in. Another difficulty to which I .wish to refer is that of the free school-books. We found it exceedingly difficult in this district, though we got very fair terms from the contractors, to have the books supplied to the schools within a reasonable time after the beginning of the year. The system also entails a considerable amount of work in our treasury department. The Central Department is not satisfied with a general statement or a grouping of the cost of the books, and altogether the thing is not working at all satisfactorily. We find considerable difficulty in the office in complying with the requests of the Department for returns. It is difficult to get from the teachers the information upon which these returns are based. Take, for instance, the annual examination return. The examinations are to be held in November and December, and the returns forwarded to our office. They are examined by the Inspector, and one copy is returned to the teacher to be kept as a school'document, It is frequently the end of March before we have these returns completed in the office. The teachers make very many errors in filling up the returns, and consequently they have to be returned to the teachers for correction. It is nothing uncommon to have a return sent back two or three times. Sometimes as many as three or four letters have to be written to the teachers asking for the returns. Part of the trouble, of course, is due to the fact that the annual holiday occurs in December and January, and we cannot get at the teachers sometimes until the middle' of February. These are all the points I propose to bring before the Commission. . 4. Mr. Pirani.] Are there any other returns with which you have difficulty/ —the quarterly return under the heading of " Number according to Age and Classification " gives more trouble than auv other, on account of the amount of detail to be filled in, and the small amount of space 'riven in the form for writing those details. Some of the teachers do not write microscopically, and there is difficulty in finding room for the particulars required. 5 Is there any necessity for giving these "details ever}- quarter? —As far as I understand there is no necessity in the 'first three quarters of the year. The figures are required for the parliamentary return at the end of the year. I should think that if a special return were made for the December quarter that would give the Department sufficient information. sa. Is there any other part of the return that you think is unduly harassing?—T do not think so. ,' , ~' _ . , , .' -. T , 6. Is not the return of salary that is forwarded to the Department unduly extensive I—it entails a considerable amount of work.
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7. Could that work be curtailed? —1 think it might be left to the Board to give the amount of salary paid in bulk, simply stating the total amount of salary paid at each school. 8. Do you know of any reason why more than that should be required by the Department? —No. . 9. Do you find that as the result of so much detail being required there are many mistakes or nrisreadings made by the Board and discovered by the Department?—ln the first quarter there may be half a dozen instances of readjustment. After that there are very few. 10. Could these readjustments be made without this detail return? Suppose you simply gave the total for each school, would it not be possible for the Department to make the readjustment from that? —I do not think the Department could deal with individual cases. 11. Then you think it is necessary that in the annual return the individual name should be given?—l do not think very much hardship would result. The teachers are alive to their own interests, and they have the Educational Institute behind them. If they think they are aggrieved in the matter of salary they soon let us know. Any grievances generally arise from the interpretation of the regulation. 12. Do you think the return is required to safeguard the revenue? —I do not think so. I think the Boards sufficiently safeguard the revenue. We are not inclined to pay teachers what they do not earn. 13. Could not a great deal of the safeguarding that is done by the Department be just as well done by the Audit officers when they are examining the accounts in the Board's office? —I think so. 14. Would not post-audit sufficiently safeguard the Dominion finance? —Yes, if the regulations with regard to salaries and schools were clearer and the auditor were thoroughly conversant with them. I think your contention with regard to post-audit is quite right, but Ido not think that even the auditor could always find out a mistake. 15. The Chairman.] Leaving out the question of interpretation of the regulations, could the auditors do the w 7 ork thoroughly in the form suggested by Mr. Pirani? —I do not think so. 16. Mr. Pirani.] Can you suggest any alteration in the system that would be satisfactory?— I cannot. 17. With regard to new schools : do you think that the information required by the Department is harassing? —In many cases it is impossible to furnish that information. The Department has to be content without having all the information required in 30 and 30a duly verified. It w-ould take a week to get the full information in some districts. 18. If the requirements of the Department were carried out, would it put undue expense upon the Boards —such, for instance, as getting the Inspector to certify to the correctness of the information by a personal visit to the district? —The Inspector always visits the district with regard to new schools. 19. Is there any improvement you could recommend to simplify the application for newschools? —No, excepting that the Department might look upon the Inspector's report as final in the matter. Instead of that you know that in some cases the Rabbit Inspector, or the Sheep Inspector, or the Mining Warden, or the Crown Lands Ranger, or some other officer is asked to give information with regard to the details already supplied to the Department, 20. The Chairman.] Are they really asked to report upon the Inspector?— Well, to corroborate or otherwise the Inspector's report. 21. Mr. Pirani.} Do you know of any instance where, as the result of the Department's inquiry outside the Board, a grant has been made? —I cannot say there has been any instance. 22. So that, taking all the work done by the officers of other Departments, you do not think they have had any effect? —It has had practically no result except in a few cases with regard to the sites of schools'. In those cases the result has been to put the school on the wrong site. 23. Then it lias really been detrimental? —Yes. I may mention one instance in which I recommended a site for a school at Waikino—a beautiful site on a flat across the river. The matter was referred to the Mining Warden. His objection was that the children in going to a school erected on the site recommended by me would pass through the reducing-works and eat cyanide and be poisoned. But there is nothing to prevent the Waihi Company from prohibiting the children from going through their wqi'ks. In fact, it would not be convenient for them to go through the works. However, as the result of the Warden's report the school was built on the top of a hill 350 ft. high, where it gets the noise of the battery, and extra cost is entailed in making and maintaining paths up the hill. 24. Have you considered the question of placing all the primary, secondary, and technical schools in the district under one central authority?—l have considered the question, and so has the Board. The Board, is very strongly in favour of placing technical education under the control of an associated Board —that is to say, technical education pure and simple. The technical instruction given at the primary school would still be under the control of the Education Board. 25. And what about secondary education? Does not that concern you, seeing that _so many-free-place pupils go from the Education Board schools? —I have not considered the question. We have quite enough to do in looking after the primary schools in this district. 26. What is your experience of the present regulations as to the capitation for conveying children to school? —I think that in nearly every case the capitation allowance is insufficient. 27. Would it tend towards the establishment of larger schools if the distances, instead of being three or four miles, were the same as the distances in regard to compulsory attendance —two miles and three miles? Would not that reduction be an advantage?—No doubt it would be an advantage to the children, but it would have no effect upon the establishment of larger schools, because children living within two miles have to attend school whether payment is made for their carriage or not.
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28. What do you think would be an adequate payment for the conveyance of children to school? —In every instance where I had to go into such questions when I was an Inspector the offers "for the carriage of children, even in reasonably favourable circumstances, were from 75 per cent, to 100 per cent, greater than the amount the Department was willing to pay. I think that was almost invariably the case. 29. Would it be a better plan if the Education Board were allowed to arrange the system of conveyance, subject to the approval of the Department, without limit as to the amount of capitation? —If it w 7 ere subject to the approval of the Department Ido not think it would make very much difference. 30. There is an arbitrary rule now as to an allowance of 6d. ?—lt would be an advantage if that arbitrary- amount were cancelled, and each case were considered on its merits. 31. With regard to the returns for scholarships, do you not think the returns required at present are too diffuse, and could be simplified?—l do not think the details required are at all necessary. If the number of pupils holding scholarships were sent to the Department, that should be quite sufficient. 32. With regard to the supply of free school-books to small schools : could there not be an improvement in the direction of providing certain books for grouped classes?—l think that would be an improvement. 33. Would it not do away to a great extent with what is at present waste?— Yes. 34. What is your system with regard to the supply- of school stationery ?—We make an allowance of about 6s. 3d. per scholar to the Committee, and the teachers buy what is necessary. 35. Is not that an extravagant method of securing supplies?—l do not know of any better method. 36. Could not the cost be considerably 7 reduced if the Board purchased the supplies wholesale and distributed to the schools? —In a district like this it would be necessary to have a special office and a special clerk. 37. Could you not do it cheaper than through the ordinary- medium of wholesaler, retailer, and sub-retailer? —I do not know how you would keep a system of check on it. 38. Suppose you ascertain the cost of what stationery would be supplied, and the capitation, allowance to the Committees were reduced accordingly, would there not be a saving to both the Committees and the system of education? —I do not think so. We considered that question. 39. Could not a dozen gross of pens be obtained at a cheaper rate than a single dozen? —Yes, but you would lose so many- in distributing them that that advantage would be lost, 40. Have you made any comparison between the salaries of the district high school secondary assistants and those paid to the secondary assistants in the secondary schools? —I knowthat the salaries paid to the assistants in the Auckland Girls' Grammar School are not very high. 41. They do not compare favourably with the salaries of the secondary assistants in district high schools?— Fairly well. In the junior portion of the Girls' High School there are M.A.s, B.A.s, and Bachelors of Science getting salaries of about £120 a year, but that school is not under the control of our Board. 42. How do the salaries paid- to the district high school assistants compare with those of the primary- assistants in the same school?— Not at all well. 43. Would it not be a fair thing that the secondary assistants in the district high school should be paid as much as the first assistant in the primary department?— They should receive salaries equivalent to those of the primary assistant. 44. Mr. Wells.] Do you not think that additional help in the case of growing schools is not given quickly enough?— That is the general experience in the Auckland District. We have occasionally to provide an assistant in a growing school for one quarter out of the relieving fund. 45. Do you think it would help matters if the regulations were so amended that if at the end of a quarter in the case of a growing school the Inspector certified that in his opinion the school was in a stable condition and help should be given at once?—l think the help should be given. The monthly return of average attendance is quite sufficient to give information as to the assistance required without waiting for the Inspector's certificate. 46. Would you approve of the suggestion to import young trained teachers from Home? — Certainly. 47. Do you think that the Native schools might with advantage be brought under the control of the Education Board?—l do not know that there would be any advantage. 48. Could not the work be undertaken with inspectoral assistance? —The Inspectors could undoubtedly do the work, but I think a man wffio is inspecting a Native school requires some special knowledge. I think he should understand Maori in. order to get at the real state of affairs. 49. It is stated that the cost of building is heavier in Auckland than elsewhere in the Dominion —that the tenders received are often largely in excess of the amounts allowed by the Department? —-That is frequently our experience. The other day we got tenders under the grant for a £3,000 school. The actual tender was £3,330. 50. The Chairman,] Is that a rare or the usual experience ? —Recently it has been an unusual experience. 51. Mr. Wells.] Can you offer any explanation of the high prices prevailing in the district? —No. 52. With regard to the conveyance of pupils to a central school: is it not a fact that that system is not carried on to any extent in this district?—l do not think there is any instance in this district. When the idea was first mooted the Department made its success impossible by insisting that no existing school should be interfered with. There were several instances where the Board might have amalgamated schools. 53. Mr. Pirani.] Is it not that the Department will not convey the children if they can conveniently get to an existing school?—ln the original circular it was made absolute. The attitude of the Department has been against centralization.
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54. Mr. Wells.] Can you offer any opinion as to the Inspectors being placed under the central Department? —When I was an Inspector I wanted to be under the central Department, but now I think otherwise. 55. Do you think the Inspectors should be paid according to a Dominion scale?—l think the salary Of an Inspector should not be less than that of a headmaster. I would be inclined to say" that it should be more, but I recognize that in the Auckland District many headmasters of large schools would decline to accept an inspectorship, because of the hardship involved in that position. A man requires to be in the prime of health and strength in order to stand the strain. But an Inspector should certainly be paid as much as a headmaster. 56. If the life is so hard, is not that an additional reason why an Inspector should be well paid ?—That is so. My point is that some headmasters could not possibly do the work on account of the strain. 57. Has the grading scheme in this district been a success?— Not an unqualified success, but it has been a success. 58. You think that the present conditions are distinctly ahead of those that formerly prevailed ? —Decidedly. 59. From your long experience as an Inspector would you say that the syllabus required simplification ? —Yes. 60. In what direction? —It should be made up in a much less complex way, so that the teachers could understand exactly- what they are required to do in the various grades of schools. It is more important to the sole-teacher school —the Grade 4 school —than to the others, where the headmasters are responsible for the interpretation to some extent. 61. In what way might the work be lightened?—l have not thought much about that. I feel that the syllabus could be simplified, but 1 cannot go into details. 62. Can you offer any opinion as to the success of taking into the Training College students who have had no previous experience in teaching?—l have had some experience with teachers who have been through the Training College, and that experience has been decidedly unfortunate. I think the students themselves were placed in an unhappy position. The}- did not seem to know either the theory or the practice of teaching. I speak now of Division B students who had matriculated and gone through the Training College without previous teaching experience, and after their course of training had been sent out to teach. My knowledge of them dates back to the time when I w 7 as an Inspector. I have had some indirect experience of them since, and I think it is an unfortunate position for any person to be placed in. 63. Mr. Kirk.] Does not your district adjoin Hawke's Bay? —We go to Opotiki, and the district has lately been extended for thirty miles beyond Opotiki. There is a no-man's land between us and the Hawke's Bay District. 64. Can you work, the district satisfactorily?— Yes, the roads are reasonably good. 65. Would it be in the interest of education if the Auckland District were curtailed in that direction? —The district is not at present too large. It is quite large enough, but it is not too large in that direction. We have comparatively easy access to Opotiki; there are goods roads from Rotorua. The Bay of Plenty is considered the plum of the Inspectors' districts in the Auckland Education District. It is the most easily worked, has the most comfortable travelling, and the best climate. 66. Mr. Thomson.] Has not the clerical work in connection with returns increased in recent years I —Yes. 67. Is there not more departmental correspondence—greater supervision by the Department over the operations of the Board —than there was ten years ago?— Yes, considerably greater. 68. May not a teacher be uncertificated and at the same time do good work ? —Several uncertificated teachers do excellent work. 69. Supposing that all the teachers were certificated, would they be content to go to out-of-the-way places for the salaries offered?— They would go if there was nothing better offering. 70. May it not be that it is because the salaries are so low in the case of the backblock schools that you cannot get certificated teachers? —The real cause is that the certificated teachers are not here. 71. How many district high schools are there in the Auckland Education District?— Eleven, with 299 scholars. 81. Are these district high schools a success?—lt depends upon what you consider is a success. Some educational enthusiasts would not consider thennquite a success. The majority of them are for the purpose of getting students through the Matriculation and Junior Civil Service Examinations. 73. Have you closed any district high schools since the inauguration of that system?—We frequently close them when they dwindle away for want of attendance. 74. How do you deal with School Committees when they apply- for works incidental to the maintenance of outhouses, fencing, gravelling, &c. ? We provide shelter-sheds, fencing, and all the repairs generally necessary in the way of maintenance. For improvements to grounds and gravelling we usually make a pound-for-pound grant, but we sometimes pay the whole cost, if the circumstances of the Committee are such that the Beard consider it advisable. There is no fixed rule as to the improvement, but generally- half the cost is granted. 75. Is not the statutory grant to School Committees ss. 6d. for each child in daily attendance? —We are paying 6s. 3d. 76. Do you find that sufficient for the Committee?—lt depends on the Committee. Some Committees have good balances in hand, but others are always coming to us for grants. I think that, on the whole, under ordinary circumstances, the grant is sufficient. 77. Do the Committees complain much?—l think, the majority of the Committees do not .complain.
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78. Does the 6s. 3d. make reasonable provision for the wants of the Committee? —I think it is sufficient to find what we require them to do, with reasonable economy. 79. What is the state of your fund for the reinstatement of schools? —We have £13,000 on fixed deposit for the purpose. 80. Do you ever draw upon that fund for carrying on the ordinary maintenance-work?—We draw upon it for the ordinary- maintenance of buildings and the reinstatement of buildings. 81. If you are always trenching upon that fund, will It not disappear in course of time? Are you making provision for the time when you will have to reinstate a lot of your wooden buildings ? —Yes, we have the £13,000 on fixed deposit for that purpose. We recognize that the maintenance and reinstatement fund is one fund for two separate purposes. We have also been able to find out roughly what was given for maintenance and what was given for reinstatement. 1 think that about half the fund is for maintenance and the rest for reinstatement. That is the way it works out with us. 82. Is money paid for primary education ever spent on technical education? —Yes, indirectly. We are paying out of the primary fund for some prizes for school-gardens, which really come under the technical. 1 cannot remember any other instance. 83. Why do the Auckland Education Board want to put manual and technical instruction under an associated Board of Governors? —Because the members of the Board feel that they cannot attend to the matter as it ought to bo attended to. The Board meets fortnightly, and has a large amount of business to deal with. In connection with manual training and technical education there is a special order paper submitted by the Director. It is also felt by the Board that if the local bodies had representation on an associated Board they would take considerably more interest in the matter than they do at present, and would probably subscribe to the funds for technical education. I believe that any moneys they subscribe would be subsidized by the Department, so that there would be more funds available for technical education 84. l T ou think it would be advisable to place all forms of education under the control of the Education Board? —I do not think so. 85. You think that separate controlling bodies make for greater efficiency?—l think so. Of course, it depends upon the amount of interest the controlling bodies take in their work. It would be too large an undertaking for the Auckland Education Board to carry on the administration of all forms of education in the district. 86. Speaking generally, have you had any great objection to the giving of instruction in woodwork in the Auckland District?— Frequently there is objection. When a new technical centre is being established at which the children can attend, many of the parents and some of the teachers object, but the objections soon die away, and after a few weeks they are rather pleased with what has been done in the matter. 87. Mr. Poland.] Do you not think it is advisable in a mining township, where a school-site chosen by the Department or an Inspector might be one that in a short time would require to be resumed for mining purposes, that the opinion of a Warden should be obtained, seeing that miningsites can be resumed without compensation ?—lt would be w-ise to obtain the opinion of a Warden, but in my experience I would not like to follow it, 88. Mr. Davidson.} You think that the chief cause of the scarcity of teachers is the defective scale of staffing in schools of Grade 4. with average attendances of between thirty-six and eighty? — If that condition of affairs did not exist we would be very much better off in the matter of teachers. So many assistants are absorbed in the schools of between thirty-six and eighty that there is no supply of female assistants left. 89. And would not that cause affect the schools throughout the Dominion? —Undoubtedly. 90. What means would you suggest to remove that defect in the scale of staffing?—l would recommend that a pupil-teacher be placed in a school of from thirty-six to fifty. 91. I suppose you are aware that the pupil-teacher system has been condemned in most countries that are considered progressive in regard to education? —I am perfectly aware of that, and at the risk of being considered retrogressive I say T am convinced that that solution of the problem is a good one. 92. You say that this district is difficult to administer. What change would you suggest in order to overcome that difficulty?— When the Stratford—Ongarue Railway is completed I think that the Taranaki Board should aaminister the schools in the Ohura Valley, w-hich are most difficult to get at. I would suggest a readjustment of the boundary between the two districts. 93. You said it was not possible to build shelter-shed schools for £80. Did the Board suggest what amount was necessary?—l think the Department granted us the full amount that we thought would be necessary, but when we came to proceed with the work Aye found we could not get it done at anything like the amount. If it could have been done in January it might have been done within the estimate, but the bad weather came in early in the King-country, and made it almost impossible to do any work of the kind. As a matter of fact, I think the roads in the King-country have been broken up for eighteen months. They did not dry properly last year at all. 94. You spoke of the difficulty 7 of getting the quarterly return made up. Do you think that if the Inspectors, in the course of their round, explain to the teachers how very simple this return is when really understood we would have many mistakes?—l do not think it would make any practicable difference. If the Inspectors spent their time in explaining regulations they would have none left to devote to the real work of the school. 95. Is not too much made of the difficulty in connection with this new form of return?— The difficulty exists. 96." Do you not think that five minutes' explanation by an Inspector to an inexperienced teacher would make the matter quite clear? —I do not think it would be of the slightest value, There are so many things in connection with regulations to explain to the teacher,
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97. Looking through the Education Report, E.-2, 1910, I find that the increase in the cost of administration since 1902 has been from £29,000 to £41,000, or about 30 per cent., whereas the increase in average attendance is just half that. Can you give any reason for that marked increase?—l cannot. I think that in the Auckland District the increase in the cost of administration has not been very rapid. 98. The Chnirm,an.] Do you wish us to infer that Auckland is not responsible for the increase beyond the natural increase?— The returns show that our percentage of expenses has decreased. 99. Mr. Davidson.] As an Inspector and as secretary, would you say that the amount of work, particularly in connection with the returns required by the Department from the Boards, has largely increased?— There is no question about that. I think it has doubled at least. 100. Would not that account largely for the increased expenditure on administration?—lt would undoubtedly have some effect. 101. Do you know of any Education Board in New Zealand which has handed over the control of the manual and technical classes in schools to an outside person or body?— No. 102. Do you know that only 43 per cent, of the schools in Auckland carry on manual work, whereas in Southland the proportion is 97 per cent ?—I can easily explain that. It is not possible for many of our backblock schools to do manual work. The number of pupils who would bo available for it would not be sufficient to give them any capitation. 103. But in Southland every school takes manual work, and it is stated in the report on technical instruction that in Wanganui District 93 per cent, of the schools take it?—We have altogether about 570 schools in operation —I suppose, about 200 of them are in Grades oto 3. In each of those schools there is a sole teacher. Frequently the classes arc not large enough to earn any capitation. That accounts for the small percentage shown in the returns for the whole district. 104. Then is it more a question of earning capitation than of the efficiency of the schools?— My opinion is that if the teacher in a small school, working alone, does good'work in the " three Rs," with a little moral instruction and a little nature-study and civics, he has quite enough in hand without doing manual work. I certainly never insisted on their doing it when I was an Inspector. I did not think it fair. 105. The Chairman.] Would you go the length of saying that manual work should be excluded from the primary-school syllabus?—No, because very valuable work can be done in the large schools. 1.06. Mr. Hogben.] In the old form of Return 8 was there not one table showing the number of pupils according to ages and another showing the arrangement according to classes? —Yes. 107. In the new form to which you have taken exception how many tables are there? —One. I would like to make it clear that my chief objection to the new form of return is that the spaces left for filling in the figures are too small. 108. Well, if the spaces were larger would you object to it?—l would rather not have to do it at all. 109. Does your Board ever by inadvertence claim too much from the Department for a teacher's salary in making its returns? —Possibly. We have also on one or two occasions claimed too little. 110. If too much was claimed and the readjustment was made at the end of the year would it not be a hardship for the teacher to have to refund the difference? —Of course. 111. How would you simplify the form of return? —I do not know. I simply made a general statement that it should be simplified. 112. Could you give any indication of the salary you think sufficient for an assistant in a secondary department in a district high school? —About £250 a year. 113. Would you give the average assistant in a district high school secondary department a higher salary than the average assistant in a primary school?— They have not been paid sufficiently in the secondary schools, and I should certainly say so. We could have attracted a fair number of good men who have gone to other places for about £250 a year. I doubt if you could do it for less, but we might offer £225 a year. 114. 'Suppose you gave £225 a year; then, with other expenses, how much would a district high school with a minimum of twelve pupils cost per pupil?—l do not think there is any district high school in Auckland with a minimum of twelve pupils. About twenty is the lowest. 115. Can you refer me to the circular that prevented the Board from closing a school in order to establish central schools? —I think we have such circular in our office. 116. Is it the circular relating to the conveyance of pupils? —Probably. 117. Has the Department ever opposed the closing of a school when it was proposed by the Board with a view to the establishment of a central school ? —I do not think the Board ever made such a proposal, considering the information at their disposal. They thought it useless to make any such proposal. 118. Did the circular relating to school-books allow- any grouping of the classes for schoolbooks? —Yes, some provision for grouping was made in one of the circulars —I think it was the last one. There are so many of them. 119. How many circulars are there each year in regard to school-books? —I should say one each year. I was referring to correspondence rather than circulars. 120. Does that circular allow the grouping of classes for text-books?—I think one of the circulars does. ... 121. The Chairman.} I wish you to go a little deeper into this matter of the preparation of returns. It is the fact, is it not, that the Boards are called upon to supply full details each quarter showing the name of each scholarship-holder, the annual value of the scholarship, and the amount due for each quarter ?—Yes. _ 122. Could that not be simplified by tabulating the number of scholarships, the value, and the- amount due quarterly—restricting the return to these three columns?— Yes, I think so.
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123. Now, in regard to the returns relating to teachers' salaries and the staffing of schools, is it not the case at present that the Boards have to supply full details regarding the staff of each -school—to wit, the names of teachers, classification, rate of salary, &c. I—Yes.1 —Yes. 124. Would it not be sufficient if the total amount required to pay salaries in each grade were supplied, so as to afford a basis on which the Department should pay —namely, a return showing, first, the number of the grade; second, the number of schools in each grade; and, third, the amount of the salary within the grade?— Yes, I think so. 125. And as to the conveyance of children in order that they may attend a central school in out-of-the-way places, is it not the practice for Boards to submit in the case of each family a proposal of this kind to the Central Department?— Yes. 126. As there are rules for the guidance of the Boards with regard to distance and rate, should not the Education Boards be allowed instead to furnish the Department with a certified claim at the end of each quarter of the amount due? —I think so. 127. That would be a simplification in the right direction? —I think so. 128. Touching the nomenclature of schools, is not the tendency to call schools "district" and " district high " rather confusing, in that some schools claim to be high wdien they are really not the highest ? Would it not be better to have a grade school, as in many other countries, after leaving the primary? —I think it would simplify matters. At present we distinguish them fairly easily by calling them secondary and district high schools. 129. Touching the inspectorate of your district, is it the custom to keep all your Inspectors in the centre and work them from the centre? —They all have their homes in Auckland. There are seven districts, and w-e have eight Inspectors, and the eighth man takes up work in districts that the other Inspectors cannot overtake. I think it is the intention of the Chief Inspector to make the districts correspond with the number of Inspectors. That is the most satisfactory method. 130. Do you, as an old Inspector, favour such a proposal?—l favour that proposal, but I do not favour the proposal that an Inspector should reside in his district. That did happen on one occasion and it was not at all satisfactory. An Inspector must be in closer touch with the office. 131. If you send junior Inspectors into the out-districts, what objection is there to gradually bringing them nearer to the centre by reason of length of service and efficiency until they ultimately get to the centre, and grading the salary as at present ?—That is the principle adopted now. The man last appointed takes the undesirable districts in turn. In time he works into a more comfortable district; but to appoint Inspectors to reside in the districts here would be hardly practicable. 132. Inspectors of Police do not find that a drawback: why should an Inspector of Schools? —There is no Inspector of Police residing outside Auckland. 133 In your judgment, has the time arrived when schools, such as the Girls' High School, that are entirely controlled by women should be examined by women Inspectors? —I do not think it is at all necessary. 134. You think the abolition of the pupil-teacher is a retrograde step and should be reconsidered? —I think so. 135. Would you acknowledge Mr. Frank Tate, Director of Education in Victoria, as a reliable authority on matters educational?— Yes. 136. Would you- subscribe to his opinion : " Undoubtedly this system [of training pupilteachers] did good work in its day, and the teachers who survived the great strain which it imposed on them during their apprenticeship acquired great power in practical teaching within a very definite and restricted area; but we must not be blind to the fact that outside Australia all the countries that adopted the pupil-teacher system have now abandoned it in favour of one which gives fair conditions to the young teacher, and which must provide in the end a trained teacher of larger culture and greater individuality, and with more advanced power of doing his work. The teacher now aimed at by all progressive countries is one to whom a greater scope for individuality and initiative can be allowod than is possible under the pupil-teacher system " ? —I have read reams of stuff like that, and I could write it too. I think many of the countries he talks about as having abandoned the pupil-teacher will yet be glad to go back to that system. I think they will find it necessary to ge-back to it. 137. Mr. Tate is a teacher of great repute who has travelled extensively and studied this subject, and he gives that as his studied opinion, and you say he is wrong in your judgment? —Yes. Thompson Wilson Lets examined on oath. (No. 19.) 1. The Chairman.] What is your position?—l am a journalist residing in Auckland. 2. You are a member of the executive of the Libraries Association in New Zealand?— Yes. I was president last year, and am now vice-president. 3. I understand you wish to place before the Commission your views in regard to libraries in connection with the public schools of the Dominion?— Yes. My chief purpose in coming before the Commission is to urge that adequate provision be made for school libraries. While we claim pre-eminence for our system of national education, in this respect we are altogether behind the times. I claim that school libraries, as an important branch of free public libraries, should be regarded as an integral part of the education system of the Dominion. In the cities of Great Britain education and libraries are managed by committees of the Corporation, and there is consequently no conflict regarding the liability for paying for these public services. The free issues of books from juvenile departments of the public libraries are, with few exceptions, considered sufficient to meet the requirements of schools. The juvenile books are carefully selected and the circulation large. For example, at Fulham Library, which may be taken as representa-
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tive, out of 103,809 books circulated from the lending branch for the year ending March, 1911, 28,583 were issued from the juvenile department. In other cases —as, for example, Cardiff — the American plan of supplying school libraries from the central library and its branches has been adopted with great advantage. The volumes lent from schools provided in this way increased from 153,528 in 1900-1 to 282,711 in 1907-8. Adding the circulation from the public libraries of Cardiff to that from the school libraries, there was a total issue of 397,435 books of juvenile literature, as compared with 367,973 books circulated from the adult divisions of the Cardiff libraries, showing what an important place juvenile-library work occupies in a well-administered public-library system. The whole cost is borne by local taxation. In the United States of America public libraries have, however, attained the maximum of efficiency, and it is there we find the school library worked as a definite and important part of the system of education, and maintained entirely at the cost of the taxpayer. The system of administration varies in different States, but, speaking generally, it may be thus described : In towns some twenty or thirty sets of books, forming small libraries, are made up at the central library. They are distributed among the various schools, and exchanged at intervals. In some towns a teacher may make a selection of books for his school, either from the catalogue or at the library. In many instances books suitable for each standard are made up and used as readers in the various classes. But the school library is usually drawn upon for that purpose, increasing the interest in this branch of school-work and giving greater breadth to the literary instruction covered by the syllabus. Besides this, photographs and pictures are supplied. In Milwaukee surplus illustrated papers in the city libraries are made use of; the best pictures are cut out and pasted on sheets of manilla paper of uniform size, and arranged in sets of from twenty-five to fifty pictures, put in portfolios, and lent to teachers of the city schools. The pictures are selected mainly with a view of cultivating the aesthetic sense of children. In Boston, United States of America, the Free Public Library supplies 108 public and parochial schools. Not only the central library, but each of the branches and reading-rooms is a reservoir from which books are drawn for use by teachers in schools in it* immodiate vicinity. This applies also to photographs and pictures of different kinds, mainly tot use in schools in connection with the work of the teachers. These collections consist of illustrations of fine arts, phj'sical and commercial geography, coloured views of all countries, types of people, industries, transportations, &c. In November last one branch issued 200 pictures in this way, another 350, another 822. From the branches and reading-rooms about 360 teachers are supplied with books for use in their work, and the school circulation is over 80,000 volumes a year. In New York, in the year 1905-6, there were 485 elementary-school libraries, comprising 509,965 volumes, and circulating nearly six million books yearly. The cost was borne by an appropriation of £5,544- from the city and an equal amount from the State. Compared with the circulation from the adult libraries of New York, the children in school attendance borrowed ten books to one borrowed by adults. This affords evidence of the encouragement given to reading under a comprehensive system of school libraries, and I venture to say that no better endowment can be given to the rising generation than a love of reading, which furnishes the key to vast stores of knowledge. These statistics proved that, apart from the advantage derived from wholesome supervision of juvenile reading by teachers, the provision of good school libraries enormously assists in the diffusion of knowledge through the medium of well-selected books. It cultivates a good taste in reading, and affords the best antidote we can get for the " penny dreadful " class of literature which does an infinite amount of harm among boys. Coming to New Zealand experience, I may direct the attention of the Commission to the fact that under a free issue of juvenile books from the Dunedin Public Library there are 797 borrowers now on the roll, whereas in the older city library of Wellington (including the Newtown Branch), where a subscription of 2s. 6d. a year is charged, there are only 400 juvenile borrowers, and in Auckland, where the charge is ss. a year, the juvenile borrowers at the two municipal libraries number only forty-five. I have had under my observation during the last three years in our juvenile readingroom at the Leys Institute an attendance of from fifteen to fifty boys, all of whom are either now attending or have paused through the primary schools, and I have been surprised at the utter lack of interest in reading, although the most attractive forms of boys' books and periodicals are placed at their disposal. In the absence of this inclination, primary education practically stops short when the pupil leaves school. Last year, as president of the New Zealand Libraries Association, I issued a circular showing what has been done with regard to school libraries elsewhere, and submitting an estimate of the cost of inaugurating a complete system for New Zealand. This circular was issued, with the approval of the various Boards of Education, to a majority of the School Committees throughout the Dominion. Calculating on the basis of 42,475 children in Standard IV and higher standards, and providing one book costing 3s. for every pupil on the school rolls for these standards, the initiation of the system would cost £6,341 ss. The Hon. George Fowlds, Minister of Education, in a memorandum which he permitted me to embody in this circular, stated that probably the average cost of any adequate supply of sets of books for school libraries and their proper distribution would be not less than Is. per pupil per annum —three times as much as it costs in New York. According to this estimate, 50,000 pupils could be provided with a book apiece at a cost of £2,500 a year. In October last, as the outcome of two informal conferences of Inspectors of Schools and some of the head teachers of schools in and around Wanganui, a scheme was drawn up to provide library sets for nine schools in Wanganui and its vicinity. The cost of establishment was estimated at about £180, or 2s. lid. per pupil, while the sum of £80 per annum, or Is. 3d. per pupil, would be required to keep the scheme in operation. I have not heard whether this scheme was proceeded with any further. In Wellington, however, the City Council authorized the Librarian to supply the Clyde Quay School with books free, with very satisfactory results, but it is unlikely that the Council will authorize an extension of this system at the cost of ratepayers to other schools, so long as a charge
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is made to borrowers from the city libraries. In Dunedin and other places where the Corporations have undertaken to provide free books, I can see no good reason why the aid of the teachers should not be enlisted in circulating the books provided for juvenile readers. With regard to the inauguration and management of a complete system of public and school libraries in New Zealand, after careful consideration I have come to the conclusion that it can be most effectivelycarried out by the appointment of an unpaid Library Board with offices in the Government Buildings at Wellington. The Board should have a paid secretary, skilled, in library work, and two experienced organizers, on the American plan. The cost of the staff w-ould not be a very serious matter. The distribution of books for school libraries might be made either wholly through the Boards of Education, or partly through the Boards and partly through the agency of the municipal libraries, which could carry out the work at comparatively little increase in the cost of issuing books free from the city libraries. This is a matter which requires careful consideration and inquiry after the Board has been set up to deal with all parliamentary votes for library purposes, and it depends upon the extent to which Parliament is prepared to promote the establishment of adult libraries for settlers in scattered country districts. The two systems might be worked in co-operation with a saving in cost. There should be a saving in the expenditure upon free readers in the schools through the establishment of school libraries which will provide books for use in the various classes. The School Journal was established for the purpose of widening the reading in schools. I believe that this object could be secured more effectively by placing good libraries at the disposal of teachers and scholars. 4. Mr. Wells.} Have you thought over the difficulty of transit in our country districts?— Yes, that is a matter that requires some arrangement, but there are some American States which have travelling libraries that are quite as scattered and difficult to reach as in New Zealand; and if you come to look at it from the school library point of view that is not a very serious difficulty, because the schools are pretty well dotted all over the place, and these libraries could be exchanged between the schools at comparatively little cost, The book sets in some American schools cost about 8 dollars, and that used in one school can be passed on to another school at comparatively little cost. Ido not think, the cost should be prohibitive. The estimate made by the Department has taken that factor into account, I presume. That estimate gives the cost of distribution at Is. per pupil. The Wanganui Board also went into it, and for Wanganui and its vicinity- the estimate was Is. 3d. per pupil. There are about 50,000 pupils in the Fourth Standard and upwards, and that only means a cost of £2,500 a year. It is not such a very extravagant cost. 5. There might be centres throughout the country districts? —Yes, that would be a matter of organization. I think it would be necessary for the central Board to have two organizers. In America they have library organizers who are specially trained for the work. They would arrange to the best advantage for the distribution of these books. The Board would" buy these books to very much greater advantage than they can be bought now. At present the grants distributed for books, mainly to public libraries, are spent not to the best advantage. The library committees have great difficulty in getting the best value for their money. They have no facilities for buying books to the best advantage. The money granted by Parliament now —£3,000 or £4,000 a yearis not put to such good advantage as it could be if there was a Board devoting its attention to library work. There are any number of people who give their time to education and other public interests, and I think there would be no difficulty in getting men who would give their time to this special work if proper officers were provided for the executive work. 6. And rebinding also could be done on wholesale lines? —Yes. 7. That is an extensive item in connection with small school libraries? —Yes. There, again, you would get advantages through doing the work oif a general system. Your binding would be done more cheaply. Sometimes it is of advantage to substitute a new book rather than bind the old one. 8. The actual selection of the books would be a matter for the central Board? —As I have explained, under the system adopted in America the teacher can make his own selection from catalogues furnished by correspondence, or he can go down to the library and make his selection. But in the main the selection would be made by the officers of the Board. There would be arranged a certain number of well-selected school libraries, varying in the books composing them, so that a school exchanging a No. 1 set for a No. 2 set would get a complete renewal of its library. 9. I would like to know if you have any views on the subject of our Commission generally? — 1 have certain views on our system of education. I do not know that I can speak as an expert to experts, but I have a good general knowledge of the system, f have been brought in contact with boys and men who have passed through all grades of education. 10. The Chairmati.] Can you, as a man who is concerned with an establishment which is a large employer of labour, give us an idea as to what the quality of the instruction is as shown by the products of our primary school who pass through your hands?—l can speak from my knowledge. I have established the only reading-room for boys in connection with a public library that is open at night in New Zealand; I have seen a good many boys, and I do still see them constantly. I taught in a ragged school in England >vhen I was twelve years of age; and I have known boys intimately in connection with our own work. lam a member of the Council of the Kindergarten Association, and know the kindergarten work here. I am also a member of the Council of the University. I have no objection to express my opinion on the general results of our system so far as my observation goes. I thought it possible some questions might be asked me and I set down very briefly my views on the subject. My opinion is that the essentials of a sound primary education are suffering deterioration through the intrusion into the school curriculum of matters which may with advantage be relegated to a later period in the pupil's life. I consider that the work of the six standards should be confined mainly, if not exclusively, to the thorough teaching of reading, writing, arithmetic, grammar and composition, with a good knowledge of English literature, drawing, elementary teaching in natural science, including
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astronomy, botany, and geology, the general principles of mechanics, history, and those broad principles of political economy which form the basis of government. If a boy acquires a moderate knowledge of these subjects by the time he reaches "the age of twelve or fourteen he will have done very well indeed. For girls I would add sewing and domestic economy. Specialized teaching in-technical subjects I would dissever entirely from the primary schools, except in the country 'districts, where a place should be found for agriculture. I would make our technical colleges continuation schools, largely carrying on their work at night. When a boy leaves school—often after he has only passed the Fourth Standard—he is liable to get completely adrift. Private effort, in the shape of boys' brigades, Y.M.C.A.s, and similar institutions are doing something for him, but it appears tome that there is a defect here which demands the attention of the State. I have grave doubts about the wisdom of the policy- under which we are holding out strong inducements to boys, irrespective of ability, to obtain a smattering of secondary education at an age when they would be better employed at the trade by which they are to make their living. The effect, it appears to me, will be to multiply the candidates for employment in the already overcrowded class of clerks, to the injury of the industrial welfare of the country. If you examine the careers of successful men in young countries you will find that, as a rule, an academic education has had little to do with the part they played in the world's affairs, and the general tendency of business men who could afford to send their sons to a university is to put them to work at a comparatively early age, unless they are intended to follow a profession in which some degree of classical attainment is necessary. For these the retention of Latin is at present indispensable, but otherwise the more these schools are modernized by substituting modern languages and scientific and commercial instruction for classics the better, in my opinion, will it be for the true educational interests of the country. _ . 11. Mr. Wells.] Would not the programme for the primary school that you have outlined rather tend to extend the work undertaken at the present time than to lessen it?—My feeling is that this manual training should not be introduced at all into the primary-school work. 12 Do you know that the introduction of that manual work has given a distinct bent in the boys towards manual work as against the old inclination to go in for clerkships ?—My contention is that boys are not now so well grounded as they were before. I maintain that to make a good mechanic you want a boy to understand English, to be able to write decently, to be a good arithmetician. My conviction is that for whatever profession he is to follow he should be well grounded in the essential elements of primary education, and you cannot do that thoroughly m the few years that the average boy spends at a primary school if you are to add a number of things which may be of very little value to the boy in after-life. It seems to me that there is in the syllabus a number of things which are non-essential, and which might be removed, and that a boy if he were grounded in what are the absolute essentials of primary education, would be very much better fitted for any calling he may choose to follow. I have met in practical life with men who life myself, left school before the age of thirteen years, and who were so thoroughly grounded in the essentials of a sound primary education that they were much better fitted for the work of life than the boys I see now. lam amused sometimes at the gross ignorance of boys now on such matters as certainly I would have been familiar with when ten years of age under the old system, and I can only suppose that this is largely due to their attention being diverted from these , essentials My contention is that these subjects to which I have referred are absolutely indispensable to a'sound primary education, and that if you do not ground the boys well in these essentials they will never be of any real use as citizens. Unless they carry on their education afterwards they will never be good carpenters, good blacksmiths, or good tradesmen of any sort. 13 Would you make attendance at continuation classes compulsory?—l am inclined tp think so Ido not think that pupils should be allowed to leave school after the Fourth Standard unless there is to be further teaching. I see some of these boys who leave school, after the Fourth Standard, smoking cigarettes at the street-corner from year s end to year s end. these boys not only do not advance their education, but they go back—they lose what they have acquired I think that the technical schools should be entirely continuation schools, largely at night; but where they are carried on in the day I think their course should only begin after the boys have passed through the ordinary primary standards. 14 Do you think that employers might be required to allow apprentices time off in the afternoons?—No- I think that would be destructive of any satisfactory system of apprenticeship. 1 maintain that while technical schools are of use in encouraging boys to take a more intelligent interest in their business, that the real work of teaching trades must always be carried on by the trades It is impossible that a boy could be taught printing, for example, in a technical school as we would teach him printing in the Star office, with all the appliances of the printing trade at hand to teach him. No technical school could be equipped as a business must necessarily be eauipped to carry on its trade. For instance, we have to-day two parties coming from the Technical School to look at our printing plant and equipment. If a boy is going to learn the printing business he can learn it in the Star office infinitely- better than he can learn it m the Technical School At the same time technical schools are of. advantage in mechanical employments by encouraging boys to study the higher principles of the trade or mechanical operation which they could not obtain in the ordinary practice of the business. I have a very strong opinion formed by my observation of boys, that there is a gap between the time a boy leaves school and the time when he becomes a more or less responsible kind, of citizen. Drill may induce some discipline but after a boy leaves school now he very often deteriorates at a rate that is not at all satisfactory unless he has the control and guidance of good parents. But there is such a lack of parenta? control here that I think the State ought to take hold of him after he leaves gchooh nk the bUc ;g sufficiently advanced to support attendance being made_ compulsory at the present time?—l do not think it is; but public opinion perhaps was not sufficiently advanced for military service, but it is being educated to it.
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16. Mr. Poland.] Do you approve of the local option which is given to different districts in connection with the continuation classes as an introduction to the compulsory system which may ~be brought in latei on? —I certainly- approve of it. I think the best means of testing that opinion is by introducing it gradually- through the country, and so educating the country. 17. Mr. Thomson.] In regard to libraries, do you advocate the abolition of the School Journal and the grant of free school-books, and the substitution therefor of school libraries? — I should advocate the abolition of the School Journal. I should advocate the substitution of good libraries to be used in place of the School Journal. They serve the same purpose, and serve it better. I think the money that is devoted to the School Journal might be better applied bygiving it still further breadth by providing adequate libraries. I should not like to express an opinion in regard to the free readers —that is rather a question for teachers in contact with the work. 18. Are you aware that 54 per cent, of the boys and 53 per cent, of the girls leave our primary schools without going through Standard VI? —I am not aware of that. 19. You think the difficulty we have to get over is to see that our boys and girls pass through Standard VI at a reasonably early age, so that we may then bring into operation the compulsory law entailing upon them the necessity of attending a continuation school where special vocational instruction could be given ? —I think the fact that children leave the schools at this early age must be taken into account. We are faced with the fact that parents remove their children. Why do they- remove them? Probably because they require them to enter into employments. Now, there are two courses we can follow. We can either say to parents absolutely, " You shall not withdraw your children until they have passed such-and-such a standard, no matter how old they are," or you can say, " We will allow you to take them away, but you must continue them at a school until they satisfy a certain educational qualification or until they reach a certain age." I think it would be easier to allow them to follow in continuation schools rather than to tie the parents down to keep their children at school until they reach a certain age. With regard to making an earlier start with children, from what I have seen of kindergarten work I think there is need for taking hold of a certain class of children earlier than five years of age. We have a free kindergarten in the Freeman's Bay district here, and it is doing excellent work. It takes little babies practically out of the gutter, and gives them some training which is of value to them, though perhaps not of educational value. It is also accompanied by visits to the houses of the parents. Now, whether that can be done by the State adequately, or whether it should be left to voluntary effort, subsidized by the State, I am not clear. 20. In some districts it is the practice to convey children in Standards V and VI from country schools to a centre, and they- spend one day a week receiving instruction in manual training: do you think that should be abolished?—l think so. 21. You would have all that relegated to the secondary and technical and continuation schools? —Yes. 22. But you make an exception in regard to country schools : you think agriculture should be taught in the primary schools? —Rather the principles of agriculture than" the practice. 23. With the idea of giving the boys a bias towards the farm, so that in the course of years they will take to farming pursuits ?—Yes. 24. Mr. Davidson.] What are the non-essential subjects in the present syllabus you would wish to see dropped out I —Of course, it would be a considerable business to take the syllabus, which is a complicated sort of thing, and go through it in detail. Generally, I have laid down here what I consider are the essentials, and outside that in the main I would say are non-essentials. 25. Do you know what time is spent by the boys of Standards V and VI in the large towns at present in learning the subject of woodwork? —I cannot tell you exactly the time —I understand, two hours. But what I say in regard to the time actually occupied in the teaching is this : I think it is of less importance than the disturbance in the removal of the boys from one place to another —the change which excites their mind and distracts their attention. 26. I suppose you admit the great value of correlating, say, geometrical drawing with the teaching of woodwork? —f should not admit that. Drawing is a subject which I should not carry very far in the primary schools, but I think it is a good thing to have map-drawing lessons and map-drawing. I should make map-drawing an important part of the geography work of the school. My experience is that it is «nTy a very small proportion of boys or girls who ever become very efficient in drawing —that is, in freehand drawing. 27. If for the first six months of the year the boys in, say, Standards V and VI spent one half-day per week in learning woodwork correlated with free, mechanical, and geometrical drawing, do you think that would disturb the continuity of work in the school? —I think that half-day is a half-day wasted, largely. 28. Mr. Hogben.] Have you ever seen a class of boys who have been at woodwork, and have you had an opportunity of seeing what effect it had on their arithmetic and mensuration? —That is a very abstract kind of question, and it goes really outside the range of evidence I have offered. I explained at the beginning that I w-ould not attempt to give evidence as an educational expert. What I was prepared to give was evidence of the general results of our system so far as I had observed them in boys who have come under my notice. 29. You expressed an opinion about woodwork, and I presumed you had some ground for it and knew of its effect?- —I hold this : that the essential subjects that should be taught in the schools are inadequately taught, and that the teaching of woodwork is not an essential of education. 30. You do not recognize any distinction between manual instruction and technical instruction? —I would specialize technical instruction entirely outside primary-school work. 31. You think that woodwork has no function as an educational subject? —I think it should be relegated to a later period, because it interferes with what I regard as the effective teaching of necessary primary subjects.
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32. Do you think that elementary economics is a good subject to teach a boy of twelve or fourteen? —I think most decidedly it should be taught for a term to make them acquainted with the"principles of good citizenship. 33. Is there not a certain amount of that indicated in the syllabus now? —I do not say there is not. 34. Do you think that the present tendency of the change in secondary education is to make more clerks than there were before? —It is not the change itself : it is the encouragement to a large number of boys to go on and get a smattering of secondary education which is of very little value to them. 35. And is it not a matter of fact that when a clerkship is advertised there are more applicants now in Auckland than there used to be?—As a matter of fact, clerks are the worst paid of any profession, which implies that the supply is in excess of the demand, 36. The Chairman?] You favour the raising of the leaving-age : that is to say, that a child must either go on to his Sixth Standard certificate or attend a continuation school till he attains the age of fifteen? —I think a Sixth Standard status should be required, but whether it should be required before a boy leaves school or by going on at a continuation school I think is an open question. 37. You know that in one of the countries you visited recently the compulsory- age is fourteen, and that between the ages of ten and fourteen a pupil must decide at what continuation school he will proceed, otherwise he cannot leave the school : do you favour the gradual adoption of that system in New Zealand? —I do. I think the age of fourteen is probably early enough; but if there was an efficient system of continuation schools, perhaps it is not quite so necessary if attendance at the continuation schools were made compulsory. 38. You agree that the gap between the primary and secondary schools should be bridged by means of continuation classes and technical schools? —That is so. 39. And that the continuation schools should be properly- graded?— That is so. 40. Do you know if it be a fact that the tuition in typewriting and shorthand in these schools has produced this result: that persons come into the labour-market now whose work in composition and spelling is so deficient that very often employers will not have them at all? —That is what I have contended throughout. I say that the essentials in every calling —good English and spelling and writing—are not taught as they should be taught, and I attribute it to the fact that non-essentials occupy too much time. I think we have as able a body of teachers as you will find in any part of the world, and I think the fault does not lie at the door of the teachers, but at the door of the subjects required by our system of teaching. 41. Mr. Pirani? Does not typewriting teach them to spell? Is it not your experience as a teacher that setting type teaches a boy to spell? —Decidedly; but I maintain that it is not the business of a newspaper to teach boys to spell. 42. The Chairman?] You do not think it is the duty of an employer to whom a boy or girl comes with a certificate of proficiency in shorthand and typewriting to have to teach that boy or girl English and spelling? —Decidedly not. 43. Are you in favour of what is known as the " rural post " in the United States? —Yesi 44. Are you aware that it is proposed to inaugurate that system immediately?—l think the rural post will facilitate the circulation of books, but I do not think it will meet the needs covered by travelling libraries. 45. In regard to the difficulties of backblocks settlers, would not the rural post, by travelling from home to home twice a week, bring within the reach of these people a better class of literature? —Decidedly. 46. And therefore should be encouraged ?—Certainly. Frederick Edward Norman Gaudin examined on oath. (No. 20.) 1. The Chairman?] You appear here as Chairman of the City School Committee and as representing the city School Committees? —Yes. My purpose in coming before the Commission is to express an opinion as to the present method of selecting teachers by the Committees. For the last two years great dissatisfaction has been expressed by Committeemen at the action of the Auckland Board in altering the system of sending four names to them for selection. The Act of 1877 provides that Committees shall be consulted in regard to the appointment of teachers. In 1878 one name was submitted to the then City School Committee, and the Committee of that time sent forward an emphatic protest to the Board, pointing out that the Committee should be consulted, and four names at least sent to them. Since then up till 1910, over a period of thirty-two years, no interference has been made with the old system of sending forward four names, which shows that the protest made in 1878 was very- effective. In 1910 the Auckland Education Board brought about an alteration, and submitted one name only. They appealed to the Attorney-General and got an interpretation of the Act, which gave them the right to send forward one, two, three, or four names. How the submission of one name can be a consultation with a Committee is certainly strange to me. They made a general charge against Committees of log-rolling and wirepulling, and. they practically- withdrew all power of selection from the direct representatives of the parents of the children. This state of things has been brought about mainly by the gradinglist set up by the different Inspectors, presided over by a Chairman who was not at that time in the employ of the Education Board. In my opinion, that was not a right thing to do. I have not been able to see the grading-list, although I asked to see it. I take it there are lots of teachers on that grading-list who are of equal merit, and in such cases I contend it is the duty of the Auckland Education Board—l do not know what practice is adopted elsewhere —to see that these names of teachers of equal merit are sent to the Committee, and that the power of selection of a teacher should be given to the Committee, rather than be put in the hands of the Inspector as it
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is now. No Committee will contend that if a teacher is pre-eminently suitable for a position he should not have it; but on behalf of Committees I urge that this Commission should see that ""where the choice is to be made from teachers of equal merit the Committee should be consulted in accordance with the spirit and intention of the Act. Although the Attorney-General gave it as his opinion that one name only could be submitted to the Committees, still I am positively certain that was not- the intention of the framers of the Act in 1877. As it is, the Committees have been placed in a most invidious position by ihe Board of Education : they have been belittled on all sides; their powers have been curtailed to such an extent that they now have nothing to do practically but act as overseers of the ladies, who scrub out the schools. That is the position in which the Board has placed the Committees at the present time. I am of opinion that if the Committees are to remain in this position it would be better they should be abolished, and the members of the Board, who are now elected by Committeemen, should be elected by the parents direct, and in that way the parents of the children would have a voice in the selection of teachers. At present members of the Board take up this position : they say that Committeemen are intelligent enough to discriminate the tares from the wheat so far as Board members are concerned, but they are not intelligent enough to say who will be placed in charge of the schools. I have only to add that this feeling is general right throughout the whole of this province. I have been in touch myself with no less than seventy-three Committees, and of this number one only has stated to me that they, are satisfied with the present system under which one name is submitted. 2. Mr. Davidson.] What special qualifications do you personally possess for the judging of the merits of a teacher ?—So far as my own qualifications are concerned, I was for ten years a teacher. I suppose I personally know half the teachers under the Auckland Education Board. I do not wish to place myself, though, before any other Committee; T am speaking on behalf of Committees generally. 3. You know that your case is an exceptional one? —If you think so, yes. I am speaking here on behalf of the largest Committee in the Dominion. 4. How many schools does your Committee control? —Four. 5. You know that every school in most districts has its individual Committee? —Yes. 6. You say that the School Committees are the direct representatives of the parents of the children : how many householders, approximately, were present at the annual meeting of your Committee? —There were 283 people in the hall—roughly, 300. 7. How many householders, approximately, are there in the districts represented by these four schools? —There are 2,500 pupils in the four schools, so you can gather from that the number of parents. 8. Have you heard teachers make any complaint about this new system of appointment of teachers in the Auckland District?—As a rule, so I understand. I have only spoken to a few— some are for and some against. 9. Mr. Thomson.] Is it not a fact that the teachers of Auckland approve of the existing system of grading and appointing teachers?—l understand they do. I believe the Headmasters' Association and Teachers' -Institute have expressed that opinion. 10. Can you give any reasons why they favour this system which you condemn? —I do not think you understand me. I condemn the Board for not sending forward the names of teachers of equal merit who are on the same line of the grading-list. I say that where teachers are of equal merit the Committee should have the right of selection. A Committee understand the requirements of their particular district, They may want a robust teacher, and the Inspector may send them a sickly one, and there may be three others of equal merit to choose from. 11. Mr. Kirk.] Do you know from your personal knowledge that there is general dissatisfaction in regard to the limiting of the powers you have indicated of Committees?— Yes. 12. Mr. Wells.] If one name is submitted, does that not give the Committee the right to point out to the Board any serious fault, if they know of one, in the teacher whose name has been submitted ?—I dare say it does. 13. Are you aware of the fact that, according to the last report, there were 1,147 teachers under the Auckland Board, and do you think it is possible that any Committee could have any adequate idea of the qualifications and claims of such a large number : must not that be left to the Inspectors ? —Most decidedly. 14. Are you aware that this principle has been approved by the general body of the teachers here in Auckland and by each branch of the Institute? —Yes. 15. Do you not think that any system that carries with it the confidence of the teachers must be for the benefit of the work in the schools I—l1 —I admit that. 16. Mr. Pirani.] I understand you would be satisfied with this : if there was only one teacher on the top of his grade and his name only was submitted to the Committee you would be satisfied? —Most decidedly. 17. But if there are several teachers of equal merit according to the list, then you think they ought to be submitted to the Committee? —That is my contention. 18. As Chairman of the City Schools Committee, if all the information in the possession of the Education Board, including the grading-list, was placed at the disposal, confidentially, of the Chairman of the Committee with the application, and the Chairman was then satisfied as to the suitability of the applicant, do you think that would be sufficient I—That1 —That would be sufficient so far as I am concerned. 19. Then your complaint really is not so much against one name being submitted as on the ground that insufficient information about that one person is supplied to the Committee? —That is the case. There may be another teacher of equal merit to the one submitted, and n more suitable man in our opinion.
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20. The Chairman.} If the Board, having come to a choice of the candidates to be sent to your Committee, gave an undertaking that they would, be prepared to hear any objection on the part of the Committee to that selection before finally making it, would that be a consultation within the meaning of the Act in your opinion?—As a rule the Committee have no information to object to. - We are told Mr. So-and-so is to be appointed, and that if we have any recommendation to make, to make it. 21. Have not the Inspectors of the Board to take all,the responsibility of advising the Board , as to the best teacher fitted for the position ?—That is so, but you are placing the whole of the responsibility in the hands of the Inspectors. 22. Do the Boards, in exercising their legislative authority, always accept the ipse dixit of the Inspectors?— They generally put it this way : "In the opinion of the Inspector this candidate is the most suitable for the position." 23. Not " in the opinion of the Board," but " in the opinion of the Inspector " —is that what you tell the Commission? —That is the case. The Inspectors are the gentlemen who appoint. 24. Do you favour the Board system? —I am quite in sympathy with it. 25. Do you approve of the suggestion made that in future the election of Committees and Boards should be on the parliamentary roll?—I am quite in favour of that. 26. I understand there is a considerable deficiency in the playgrounds in this district?— Yes, it is a serious difficulty. 27. Can it be met undcu- present conditions? —Well, the Auckland Board is trying to purchase a piece of ground at Napier Street with the idea of enlarging the playground of that school. 28. How are they going to get the money?- —I cannot tell you. 29. Would you favour either a local rate being applied or the city rates in general being applied to assist? —Certainly not. That is a matter for the Government to attend to. 30. You do not think it practicable or desirable that, in order to cope with this difficulty, there should be joint consideration so far as ways and means are concerned —the Government on the one hand and the local education authority on the other, and the City Council supplementing it?—l do not think it would ever work out. Edward William Patton examined on oath. (No. 21.) 1. The. Chairman?] What is your position and what are your educational qualifications? —I am Director of the Elam School of Art. I have been in charge of that institution for twenty-two years. I hold an art master's certificate from the Royal College of Art, Kensington. I have been three times medallist and twice Queen's Prize man in the National Art Competitions. I have been teaching art for about twenty-five years. 2. On what subjects do you propose to address us? —I have been asked to give evidence on several points, some of which refer to art education as a whole, and some to art education in Auckland more especially. First I wish to refer to the changes that have taken place in the examination of what used to be called the Science and Art Department, South Kensington, but more recently the Board of Education, London. We have received information that the examinations are to be very much altered. Formerly there were two grades of examinations, both of which have been held in the Dominion for many years. One of them seemed to be just about the standard for the average student likely to be educated in New Zealand; the other was a much higher one, within the reach of any student in the Dominion, but after much greater study. Both these examinations are either to be done away with or merged into one, and that one would be practically unattainable to the average New Zealand student. It entails a five or six years' course of study, which is more than the average student here could give, considering the comparatively small earnings that are at the end of it in the case of the successful student. There is, however, a real want of an examination which would be sufficient for New Zealand requirements, and I beg to suggest that the Education Department of the Dominion should take the matter in hand and conduct the examinations that have hitherto been held here under their supervision, the results having been sent to London. So far as one can see, these examinations could be conducted by art masters belonging to this country, or it would be easy to import art masters who could conduct examinations which would be as good to people in the Dominion as any held at Home. One grave defect in, the, former examination, from the point of view of the students here, was that they had a very long time to wait betw-een the time of the examination and the declaration of the result. Frequently we had to wait six months before we obtained any of the results from London. The average student was often deterred from entering for the examinations on that account. Were the examinations held in the Dominion I am certain that the number of entrants would be very much greater than heretofore. It may be suggested that there would be considerable expense attached to this proposal, but I think the present arrangement is costing the Education Department a considerable amount of money, the examinations here having to be held under their supervision, and other expenses having to be met in London for the actual examination of the work. Probably there would not be much difference in actual cost between the examinations held in London and examinations such as I am suggesting. There would be a very great incentive to students to proceed further with art-work if some such examinations were instituted. Another gain would arise from the increased interest that would be taken in the matter by art students —the competition it would involve. AVithout emulation it is almost impossible to produce good work. The more emulation there is, within reasonable lines, the better for everybody, and competitions are exceedingly useful on that account. The chief competition in the British Islands and British overseas Dominions has hitherto been the National Art Competition, held once a year, in which all the best works of the various schools are sent up to compete one against the other, and awards are made in the shape of medals and prizes of various kinds, to which the students attach a good deal of importance. Out here we have very
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little chance of competing successfully with the schools at Home. Some of our schools have been competing for many years, and, with the exception of a solitary- bronze medal and one or two book prizes, New Zealand has not so far got very much out of the large number of medals and other prizes awarded. The reason is not far to seek. The difficulties to be contended with here are naturally very great compared with those at Home. Certain other subjects in which the .examinations are held are practically impossible here —historic art or historic ornament, for example. There is very little chance of producing work of that kind here, except from books, and that is not altogether satisfactory. Even in the Old Country, when I was a student at the Royal College of Art, f have known students to come from Liverpool, Manchester, and Glasgow especially to stud}- at Kensington for historical ornament. 1 only mention that as one example. I suggest that if it is possible to hold Dominion competitions they need not be held annually, but,-for a start, biennially or triennial!} 7 , between the schools of art, and that every one should have a chance of competing. If the best works do not come up to a certain standard the prizes might be withheld. The awards would need to be made by some one entirely- outside .the Dominion, but it should not be necessary to go further than Australia. lam sure that this would give a very great incentive to art education in the Dominion. The gaining of a prize in the National Art Competition is naturally a greater thing than such a Dominion competition, but nineteen out of twenty of the students go into that competition under the impression that they stand no chance of getting the prizes that are awarded at Home, and I think they are right to a great extent. They have very little chance compared with the student working under better conditions in the Old Country. I think a Dominion competition would produce a large number of competitors, and would have a very beneficial effect on art education. There are quite a number of art schools that could compete, and I think the number of competitors would be very large, whereas the number who go in for the National Art Competition is very 7 small indeed. If anything of the kind is done, I suggest that the best works produced during the year should be purchased, fam sure they could be purchased for a nominal sum by the Education Department for distribution to the country schools. There are a very large number of schools that have very little chance of comparing their own work in a subject such as this w 7 ith the work of a larger school, and it would benefit them if a selection of the work sent for competition could be sent to them from time to time. It may be suggested that the works which are now occasionally purchased by the Education Department from the Old Country answer the purpose, but I do not think they do altogether. Main 7of the works sent out are admirable for the purpose. Many of them, however, deal with subjects a little beyond that, such as historic ornament and historic art generally. If a simpler set of works were sent to the country schools it would produce a much greater desire for art-work than at present. Speaking as one who has had a great deal to do with the country- as well as the town, I may say that 1 find no want of ability in the country. The demand is there, but the opportunity for satisfying it is not there. That demand should be fostered, and both the demands I have made would work in that direction. The Elam School has been in existence for about twenty-two years. It was started under a bequest from the late Dr. Elam principally for those who were unable to pay for tuition —not entirely for them, but principally. It continued as a day school for six or seven years, and a year or two after the Manual and Technical Instruction Act came into operation I obtained recognition for the school. I think it was one of the first associated schools that obtained recognition. After working for a little time with the Department it was suggested that as public money was being used it should not be confined to one class of student, but that every class should have access to the school. The suggestion was made that fees might be charged, and the school would then be within the reach of every one. The Managers complied with the request, and the school then became what it is now—the Elam School of Art and Design and Auckland Art School. For some fifteen years we have been working under the Education Department, and. for thirteen or fourteen years we have been under the direct inspection of its Inspectors. The question to which I am working up is this :We have before long to make arrangements for new premises. The Managers are quite prepared to build a suitable school, and to equip it thoroughly in such a way as an Auckland School of Art should be equipped. But there is a considerable amount of overlapping in some of the subjects going on in Auckland, and the Managers do not altogether like to commit themselves to the complete school without knowung whether or not that overlapping is to continue. If the overlapping should be discontinued it would probably mean that greater provision will be made by us for students in the building we are contemplating. The necessity for overlapping seems to me very doubtful. In a place like Auckland, though the number of students is perhaps as great as in any centre in the Dominion, it does not amount to a great number, and it seems to me a pity that there should be any 7 overlapping. I. do not propose to enter into the exact subject on which overlapping is taking place, but merely to mention it casually. About two years ago classes were started in higher art at the Technical School, which up to that time had not been attempted. Life classes —classes in the highest kind of drawing and painting from life —were started at the Technical School, and continued for some time. Our Managers communicated with the Education Department, calling attention to the fact that under the original arrangement betw-een the two schools there should be practically no overlapping between them. In course of time w-e received an intimation from the Department that they had looked into the requirements of art in Auckland and the instruction given at the Elam School of Art and Auckland .Art School, and they were of the opinion that everything was provided for students that was necessary, and consequently they had notified the Education 'Board that they would withdraw the departmental support from the Technical School classes. So far that was satisfactory. But overlapping is going on now in other subjects in more elementary art. The necessity for it is not easy to see. The school of which I have charge is quite prepared to meet any demand that may be made upon it in Auckland either now or in ten -years' time. It can easily meet any requirements that are likely to arise. We have
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from three hundred and fifty to four hundred students on our books, but before long when the accommodation increases, that number will increase. Some time ago the Education Board brought from Home two gentlemen to act as art teachers It was suggested at the time —I am not sure by whom —that their appointment was intended to do away with the difficulties the country teachers will find in dealing with art education. We understood that the bulk of "their time would be given to instructing the country teachers, and that occasionally they would teach in the large country schools. 1 understand, however, that they have been working mostly in the town, and rather in the direction of creating another art school in Auckland, for which there does not seem to be any necessity. No one would welcome the advent of further qualified teachers more than myself, but if they are simply duplicating the existing- classes the necessity for their work is not obvious. If their work was conducted in the country, and had more to do with the country teachers and the conduct of country schools, there is not the slightest doubt that they would fulfil a demand which is very great indeed. Mentioning the Technical School as duplicating some of our classes leads one to'consider the question whether art should be taught at the Technical School, or at the Art School, or at both. Ido not propose to go into the question further than to say that I have a large number of statistics in my office bearing upon it, and they all show plainly that the modern tendency at Horne —and I think the same tendency is found in these colonies —is to separate art and technical work as much as possible. In every case where they have been carried on in the same building art has been starved. To show the tendency in the Old Country, I have particulars of some 328 art schools in the British Islands, of which only forty-eight "are carried on in connection with technical schools. I think that of itself should be sufficient; and the forty-eight places are generally so small that the reason for the combination of the two systems is obvious. It is a question of expense, whereas many of the larger art schools have only in comparatively recent years separated themselves from other institutions. The building that we wish to put up is to be, if matters can be arranged satisfactorily, a thoroughly up-to-date school of art. Ido not know that there is an up-to-date art school in the Dominion at the present time. All the existing schools have been built a certain number of years, and one does not go many years nowadays without improvements being required. Some of them are very well suited for the work they have carried on up to the present time, but there are always improvements to be made. We hope to make those improvements, and the question that we wish to laybefore the Commission is whether it is desirable for two schools to be competing with one another. 3. Mr. Pirani.] How is the controlling body of your institution elected or appointed? —It is appointed early in each year. The Board of' Trustees were the original Managers, but they now delegate their authority to a Board of Managers. These Managers have to be elected every year, and their names submitted to the Government for approval or disapproval. 4. Would there be any possibility of an arrangement being made between your Board and the Board of Education to prevent overlapping? —I could not tell you. 5. Would it be advisable for the two bodies to meet and discuss the point?—l think it would be distinctly advisable. 6. Would it be possible at your institution for a student to get his art master's certificate? —Under the old regulations it was quite possible, but under the new regulations to which I have referred I doubt whether it would be possible in New Zealand —at any rate, within the period that they state, five or six years. 7. Mr. Wells.] Are we to understand that there is no overlapping, from your point of view, in the department of the higher art?— There is in the highest class, such as the life class. 8. Has the life work been undertaken by the Elam School all along? —Y"es. 9. Are you acquainted with the work that is being done in the schools by the teachers under the Board ?—Not entirely, but I am acquainted with some of it. 10. Was that work ever attempted by the Elam School of Art?—No, nor has the school ever wished to do it. 11. Then you are not complaining about that? —Certainly not. That seems to be the proper function of the teachers under the Board. 12. But is not that how their time is principally spent? —I cannot say how much time is given to it, but in the advertisement students are asked to come for an art course at the Technical School. 13. The greater part of the time" of the art teachers employed by the Education Board is spent in going from school to school, putting in an hour or two in this or that school, and advising the headmasters and teachers. Do you insinuate that there is any possible overlapping there?— No. We do not wish to touch that. 14. The rest of their time is mainly taken up in instructing the young teachers. Do you mean that that might be done at the Elam School? —We did it until the Technical School was started. We had all the teachers at that time. There would not be the slightest difficulty in taking all the teachers again. That is not the work I am referring to. But there is no necessity for duplication. We are in a position to teach the teachers as well as the Technical School is. 15. With the art instructors going round from school to school, would not they have special knowledge of the direction in which help is wanted? —Possibly. 16. In that respect would not their training of teachers be especially valuable?— Yes. At the same time, we have a considerable number of teachers at the present time attending our school. 17. Would the Elam School of Art be prepared to undertake the instruction of all teachers in the elementary art required? —Certainly, and it is quite capable of doing it. I have had as many as two hundred teachers on my books in one year. Of course, when the Technical School started, the teachers were withdrawn. 18. Did the Elam School ever attempt to cater for the teachers in the country districts, who can come in only on Saturdays?—We encouraged them to come as often as possible, In attending our schools they have a right to the reduced rates on the railway.
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19. Are your classes held at such times as to suit them? —Yes. They are held practically all day on Saturdays. In fact, I may say that our school is never closed any day, except on one "morning for cleaning. 20. Mr. Kirk.} Is the tendency towards overlapping as between your school and the Technical School increasing as far as the Technical School is concerned? —I mentioned that the life classes had been discontinued owing to the suggestion of the Department, but within the last few weeks they have been restarted. 21. Why has that been done? Has the Department given its sanction? —I do not know, but they have been restarted. 22. Do you view that with apprehension? —1 do. The withdrawal of the Department's recognition will no doubt affect it, but it is a pity that there should be the slightest opposition in a place like this. Auckland is not a large place, and the number of students for this kind of work is not great, and I think one good school is better than two or three small ones. 23. Did you have a promise that there should be no overlapping within five miles? —I do not know that there was a definite promise, but there was a suggestion to that effect. 24. There has been that understanding ? —There has been that understanding always, as far as I know. I have over and over again refused students for such subjects as building-construction, which is more on the science side. 25. You think it would be against the best interests of art instruction that there should be in this city work going on in your own school and the Technical School on similar lines ? —I certainly think so. 26. Mr. Thomson. | Who is the Inspector to the Elam School tinder the Education Department? —Mr. Isaac has done most of the inspection. 27. Is he qualified to inspect in matters of art?—l am not acquainted with his qualifications, but I assume so, as he is appointed by the Department to do it, I fancy his work is so great in other directions that it would be impossible for him to be a thorough expert in everything. He can hardly be considered an expert in cooking and engineering classes and all the classes combined, but that he has a good general knowledge of them all I have no doubt. I should certainly say in regard to his art-work that the experience he has had in the other schools of the Dominion has been of great advantage to us. He has an advantage over any other art teacher, however well qualified. 28. His inspection-work is good?—lt has been thoroughly satisfactory as far as I am concerned. 29. What was the resolution passed last year at the conference called by the Auckland Education Board to consider the question of overlapping?— That there had been overlapping. 30. The record says that a motion moved by Mr. Garland was carried to the effect that " as there appeared to be no overlapping between the Elam School of Art and the Technical College, the conference would not further consider the matter " I —That referred to the then state of things. The overlapping had been stopped. 31. I understand from the record that there had been no overlapping between the two schools? —I could not say that that would be correct. 32. What alterations have been made in the Technical School syllabus with regard to art since last year?—l could not say. If Mr. Garland is reported as saying that there was no overlapping, that might be incorrect at that time. 33. An amendment was moved by Mr. George in favour of a special inquiry into the work of the Elam School of Art and of the art department of the Technical College, and of a report as to the work which should be carried on at each of these institutions. This amendment having been lost, Mr. Garland's motion was put and carried. Consequently it seems that there was no overlapping such as you say exists? —The whole matter was not gone into; I do not think the whole matter occupied more than a quarter of an hour. 34. Do you think the whole work of teaching art should be taken out of the technical schools and confined absolutely to the Elam School of Art?—lt should certainly be confined to one institution. 35. Would economy be effected by doing so?— Certainly. 36. So far as having one Board of control for all educational matters in the education district, do you think the Elam School 6r Art should be under the control of the Auckland Education Board? —I do not think that would be possible, because under the trust the trustees have to be represented. 37. Could they not appoint the Education Board as Managers?—l suppose that would be possible. 38. Therefore there is no reason why that institution should not be brought under the central provincial authority?— Not that I am aware of, provided that the terms of the trust are respected. 39. Mr. Davidson.] Do you think that a Dominion art examination such as you suggest is quite practicable? —Quite, I think. I have gone into the matter and thought it out. In fact, I mentioned the matter to the Department six or seven years ago. 40. Do you not think that the standard of work would be lowered?—l do not think so at all. It would create a much greater interest in art. I do not think the standard need be lowered, as we could still get work out from Home, and pass it round as examples. 41. Do you think that certificates and medals awarded under such an examination would be considered as valuable and held in as high esteem as those hitherto obtained?— They would not in any other place but in the Dominion. Within the Dominion I do not see why they should not, 42. I find that the Department spends something like £650 a year on the examinations at present. Do you think that if that amount were spent in the way you suggest it would be suffi-
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cient? —I think it would be quite sufficient. It is a matter which requires a little thinking out, bwt it seems to me probable that even one examiner would not be required to put in his whole time at it, and the travelling-expenses would not bo very great. The services of an examiner could be secured for, say, £300 a year. - ' [Mr. llogberi here stated that the £650 covered the City and Guilds of London Examination as well as the South Kensington Examination.] 43. Would you suggest about the amount you consider necessary for the conducting of the art examinations in New 7 Zealand? —That would be a little difficult on the spur of the moment, The Inspector-General should be able to say more as to the expenses of the examinations, because examinations would have to be held in many centres. The cost of the examiner himself would scarcely be half the sum you have mentioned. 44. You suggest the purchase of specimens of the students' best work. Would you carry that suggestion further and recommend the Education Boards to send the best of the work from the primary schools —for example, in freehand and brush drawing—to the schools in outlying districts, so that teachers could get an idea of the standard of work done in the best schools?—l think that would be an admirable idea. 45. Mr. Hogben?] You think that ail the art classes should be connected with one school? — I do think so. 46. You refer to the classes in pure art —art that has no immediate relations to the arts and crafts? —I would suggest that pure art and arts and crafts be taken together. I see no difficulty about that. For instance, at the present time we have various classes in craft work, and we make no distinction between them and the art classes. 47. Would you separate designing that is connected with the crafts from the crafts themselves?—l think not. They would both come in what I call the art course. 48. Suppose it was a question of the designing of ironwork : would you do the iron-moulding in the Art School? —That would be impossible—iron-moulding is scarcely a " craft," 49. Would you teach the designing of ironwork in one school and the moulding and casting in another ?—That would have to be done, 50. Is not that as much of a divorce as if you divorced the two kinds of art? —I think not. 51. As to the making of carved furniture : would you have the wood-carving in the Art School?— Yes. 52. Where would you have the furniture-making? —I do not look upon furniture-making as a craft subject; it is a trade subject. 53. What about art furniture? —I would call the decoration of it an art subject, and the actual making of the furniture as a trade subject. 54. Is that the practice in other parts of the world? —Yes. 55. Do you know any school of arts and crafts in England?— Yes, the Birmingham School, for instance. 56. Do they not work the art with the actual making of the things? —Not in the sense of making furniture. The two subjects seem to me entirely- separate. 57. Have you read about what is done at Jena, Dresden, and Leipsic ? —I have. I believe they do separate the arts and trade subjects there. There are separate schools for the carryingout of the works. I know they do that at Vienna. 58. Do you see any harm in one authority exercising general control over art schools and technical schools, so that it could define their courses?—l see no objection to it. 59. The Chairman'?] Do you see any objection to the principle of co-option being adopted here in this connection ?—None at all. 60. If it is represented to the Department by the governing body of a recognized school that there is overlapping on the part of another school within five miles, would there not be a departmental inquiry, as a matter of course, to see if the allegation is well founded, and if it is proved well founded would not the Department intervene?—lt seems to me that that ought to be so. When the Department withdrew their recognition in the case of the higher art schools we thought that overlapping generally would cease, but it has not, Such work as the more elementary work work from the antique, and work from the cast is being duplicated. 61. Your contention is that your fichool can teach such art as they require to all the publicschool teachers, and should not be interfered with?— That is my opinion. George George examined on oath. (No. 22.) _1. The Chairman.] What is your position ?—I am Director of Technical Education and Manual Training for the Auckland Education District. 2. What has been your own educational course, and what are your qualifications V— I entered the Merchant Venturers' Technical College, Bristol, in 1889. I received instruction there until 1896. when I joined the staff, taking chiefly elementary mathematics. I continued my studies at the College and also at the University College in Bristol. My academic qualifications include the Associateshrp of the Merchant Venturers' College, the Fellowship of the Institute of Chemistry, the Fellowship of the Chemical Society, and the Membership of the Royal Sanitary Institute. In addition I hold something like sixty certificates of the Science and Art Department, South. Kensington, London. From 1896 to 1899 I was science master at Allan Glen's School, the Boys' School of the Glasgow and West of Scotland Technical College, and I also taught special classes in chemistry under the Lanarkshire County Council at the Hamilton Academy. From 1899 to 1902 I was headmaster of the Sutherland Technical Institute, Longton, Staffs. In 1902 I came to New Zealand as Director of the Auckland Technical School. Soon after I arrived here the Education Board considered that it was necessary that all the work in the province should be brought under my direction. Accordingly I was appointed Director of Technical Education and Manual Training for the Education District. This appointment I hold at the present time.
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3. What matters do you desire to lay before the Committee ?—At the outset I should like to say that I have always taken Spencer's definition of education as one which should guide us in dealing with all educational matters. He said that "to prepare us for complete living is the function which education has to perform." Therefore my remarks with regard to education in its various branches "will deal particularly with education on those lines. In connection with the administration of the Central Department I would like to say that this is a branch with which I come into contact through the administration of manual training and technical education. From that standpoint it appears to me that the administration of the Central Department is weak, largely on account of the insufficiency of the expert staff, and because the experts that are engaged are not sufficiently well paid to secure the quality of expert advice that we should have. Some twelve months ago Sir Joseph Ward publicly stated that the officials in New Zealand were probably the poorest paid in the British Empire. I think that applies particularly to education. The result is that we do not get the same efficiency that we might expect if we employed more expensive experts. Take particularly the matter of the introduction of manual training and technical education into New Zealand, which practically started with the passing of the Manual and Technical Instruction Act of 1902 —the year when I came to New Zealand. It might have been thought that one of the first things to be done in connection with that matter would have been to appoint experts to deal with technical instruction and manual training. But the only appointments made at that time were those of two Inspectors, neither of whom was qualified to deal with technical education —that is to say, neither of them had had any real experience that would be of value. I take it that if the country was willing to pay in a matter of that kind the proper course would have been to get really good men, in which case we should have seen very valuable results. Particularly in the smaller towns, where expert Directors were not available, the help and advice of such men would have been very valuable indeed, if they could have spoken with authority and from experience. As one of the results of the administration, we have had an annoying amount of red-tape introduced into the manual and technical work in New Zealand. Take, for example, the subjects which are now requisite as part and parcel of the primary-school curriculum —subjects such as brushwork. The amount of clerical work that is entailed in connection with these branches of elementary education is enormous, and altogether unnecessary. Greater efficiency could be obtained if the money were spent in other directions rather than in clerical work. If you require classes in brushwork to be recognized in a primary school the teacher has to fill up a form indicating his desire to take the subject. Then the form has to be made in duplicate and sent to the Board, and the Board has to send it to the Department. When the Department recognizes the class, notice has to be sent to the school, and at the end of it all there is a capitation payment of 9d., say, in the primer classes paid on account of this work. That is just an example of the kind of thing we have to submit to. lam not speaking in any carping spirit, but lam giving my experience in the hope of getting many of these things altered, and so bringing about the increase of efficiency. Again, take the payments in connection with technical classes. Many points in our system have been copied from other countries, but copied without due consideration for the difference in the requirements. For instance, there has been recently introduced a graded payment on account of technical classes here for the first, second, and third years, and these classes are differentiated into commercial classes, domestic science classes, hand-work classes, and so on. The rates of payment have differed in each branch for each year. In making out the returns there is a tremendous amount of extra clerical work. This system was copied from the Home requirements, but no consideration was given to the fact that at Home these graded payments were made because it was considered that some of the subjects were more expensive to run in the Old Country than others, because the local authority has to find the apparatus, whereas here the Government is supposed to find the money for equipment and apparatus ; and, therefore, when once you have established classes it does not cost more to run one branch than the other. These are examples where I think we might have had greater efficiency if the Inspector-General had had associated with him men who had had experience in this branch of education elsewhere. Dealing with the subjects that come under clauses 3, 4, 5, 6, and 7 of the order of reference, I am very strongly of opinion that the Dominion should be divided into suitable education districts, and in each district there should be one authority —the Board of Education specially elected by the people, with power given to the Board to co-opt as well. There are tjjways men who will not come out to be elected by the popular vote, but who will give their services if requested. This Board, I consider, should be charged with the control of all the education in its district —not only primary, secondary, and technical, but also university education. If that were done we should avoid a good deal of overlapping. This Board, I think, should be compelled to levy rates for education, and these rates should be subsidized by the Government at the rate of £2 for every £1 raised. The Government should still pay the salaries according to a Dominion scale, and this Dominion scale should apply not only to primary, but also to secondary, technical, and university education. The Boards, I think, should have the power to increase the salary above the Dominion scale. The Dominion scale should be looked upon as a minimum, because what is required in order to produce the most efficient education system is to have healthy emulation between districts. Why should not any particular district say, "We are going to have the best education district in New Zealand, and we are going to attract the best teachers to it. We will put our hands in our pockets and pay salaries over and above the Dominion scale " ? It seems to me, after ten years' residence in New Zealand, that there is too great a tendency to bring things down to a dead level. I would like to see a tendency to bring things up to a higher grade. There is no reason why any institution, or any number of institutions together, should not have a separate local Committee working under the Board. Such a system as this would abolish probably one of the most unsatisfactory features of the present system —payment on average attendance, and payment by capitation in connection with hand-work classes. In order to see that the work was was properly carried out, Inspectors—or you might call them advisers —should be appointed by the
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Central Department, and the Central Department itself should be under the control of a Council of Education. Having established our authority, the first thing we have to see to is that our teachers are - properly trained. All teachers, whether primary, secondary, technical, or university, should be trained. The present system is unsatisfactory, in that insufficient time is given to the technical training_ of the teachers. The teachers when they enter the training college should have practically completed their academic training, with the exception perhaps of training in such special subjects as agriculture and drawing. The age at which they enter the training college should, I think, be raised. They should not be allowed to enter until about the age of twenty. This would mean that they would have received a good academic training by that time. Then, the male teachers should be bound for a longer term than at present. Many male teachers who enter the training college use it merely as a stepping-stone to get into the law or some other profession. They should be bound to the teaching profession for ten years, and be required to refund the cost of their training pro rata for every year for which they released themselves. The female teachers, I think, should not be compelled to do as hard work as the male teachers, and their pay should be regulated accordingly. A woman is not naturally constituted to stand the hard strain that teaching entails. In the primary schools generally, compared with other countries, there is not sufficient money spent on buildings. There is not sufficient attention paid to hygiene, in such matters as heating and ventilation, for instance. In connection with every primary school there should, 1 think, be a kindergarten. Pupils should also be required to attend until they reach the age of fifteen. Every primary school in the Dominion should be provided with a school-garden for experimental purposes, in the towns, portions of the parks and domains could be used. This, I think, is one of the most important branches of the workthat can be done in the primary schools. Ido not agree that the school-garden is useless, as I understand has been stated by some of the witnesses. I know from actual evidence that very great advantage has accrued to a district through the experimental work that has been carried on in its school-garden. We do not make much attempt to see that our children are properly medically examined. I think that every school and every child should be examined at least twice a year. One of the greatest bugbears in connection with the primary system is the number of very small schools. Many of them are absolutely necessary, but in certain districts they should be consolidated into one central school. I look upon the consolidation of the smaller schools as one of the crying necessities of New Zealand. If we had a large consolidated school instead of a number of little ones we could have as part of that consolidated school efficient manual training. We would be able to have also proper domestic-science teaching and efficient agricultural instruction. Wherever possible in connection with the primary schools there should be a swimming-bath. Swimming I look upon as a very essential subject of instruction in schools, especially in a country like New Zealand where there is so much intercourse in and around the country by waterways. Dealing more particularly with the training of girls, we have largely lost sight of the fact that the natural function of every girl is to become a wife and mother. Her education should be largely upon the lines that are calculated to bring that about in the most efficient ways. Whatever else a girl is to be, that is what most girls eventually reach. We want to alter our curriculum, taking away many of the subjects that are taught to girls, and introducing much more domestic work. Again, 1 think we might try with a very great advantage what has been done in Germany and London —an open-air school system, especially for children who are abnormal and mentally defective. As far as the secondary schools are concerned, these should be more vocational than at present. They should be of different types, to supply the requirements of the particular town. In every secondary school I would make agriculture one of the sides. I consider that it is absolutely essential that all girls should receive special training in homecraft, or domestic work, whichever you like to call it. It has been found from experience that a very large number of children, both in New Zealand and other parts of the world, and particularly in America, have left school before they were fourteen years of age, largely because they got out of sympathy with the work of the school. I think that in America something like 25 per cent, on the average leave school before they are fourteen. This means that they are out of sympathy with the course of instruction. Vocational schools have been introduced during the last few years in many of the States of America, and also in London and other places, and I understand that as a consequence there has been a much greater tendency for the pupils without literary taste to stay for longer periods. Dealing particularly with the technical schools of New Zealand, I suggest that these school buildings in the larger towns could be made to serve many purposes. For instance, the institution could be utilized as a day secondary school, a vocational school, a continuation school, and also as part of the University, as is done in cities like Belfast and Bristol. The day secondary school, of course, would be a modern secondary school, but a certain amount of time would be devoted to manual training for the boys, including metal-work and woodwork, and for the girls domestic work. The advantage of making use of the technical school for these different purposes would be that the same equipment would serve all branches, and the same staff could be utilized for the various purposes. Then, the day technical school would be a school to which students would come for technical work, and from the more elementary portion up to the very advanced work, the most advanced work, such as engineering, for instance, being part of the University. Thus the school could dovetail in. and that would prevent overlapping. The vocational school would be a school where boys, more particularly, would receive a certain amount of training in connection with the various trades. It has been found from experience that many boys who are looked upon as duffers by their teachers because they have not great literary ability yet turn out to be excellent workmen. Very often if these boys were drafted from the primary schools into a vocational school they would become excellent citizens and excellent craftsmen. Even now they stay at the primary schools till the agelimit comes, take little interest in their work, and are a bugbear to the teachers because they do not progress along the ordinary lines of the curriculum, and when they leave they become errand-boys
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and drift into the class of unskilled labour. We could do a great deal to eliminate that by differentiating in the later stages of the primary course, finding out what they would be likely to take up, and putting them into the vocational schools, which would give them a direction along the line of their bent. lam very strongly of opinion that it should be compulsory for all boys and girls to attend continuation schools until they are eighteen years of age. Ido not at all approve of evening class work. I should like to see the system adopted here which has been adopted at Munich. Munich at the present time has the most advanced educational system in the world. I had the pleasure of spending some time there in 1908, and I must say it has always remained with me as an ideal that I should like to see followed in New Zealand. All the boys and girls there attend continuation classes for from six to nine hours a week during the daytime until they are eighteen years of age. When this system was introduced—l believe it was in 1905 —there was great opposition on the part of the employers; but eventually the thing was given a trial, and when I was there every one was delighted with it; the employers thought it one of the best things ever done for the city. Every trade and every occupation is catered for. Even a trade like chimney-sweeping was put on a scientific basis. Its curriculum included, for instance, the repairing of brushes, and dealt with the construction of flues and cognate matters. It is quite wrong, to my mind, to compel boys and girls to attend evening classes after they have perhaps worked seven or eight hours in the day. In the trades they have to work very hard. I know that the boys here work very much harder than in the Old Country—possibly because the master is compelled to pay a definite wage. At any rate, I know from my varied experience that apprentices here are expected to do much more than apprentices are at Home. Many of them come to the classes dead-tired. On this point I would like to relate to the Commission what happened in Auckland about eighteen months ago. There was to be a new award in the plumbing trade in Auckland, and the masters and men were meeting together preparatory to going to the Conciliation Council to settle the terms of the next award. For some time 1 had been trying to get the masters to allow their apprentices to attend for two half-days a week at the Technical College. At the beginning they were very much opposed to it, and I thought there was no chance of their agreeing to it. However, after many interviews, and after going before the Conciliation Commissioner, they all agreed, both union and employers, that the apprentices to the plumbing trade in the Auckland District for the first four years of their apprenticeship should attend at the Technical College for two half-days per week. Naturally I thought this was a very fine thing ; and expected it to be ratified before the Arbitration Court. However, the Judge threw it out, stating that he had no more power to enforce it than to compel the apprentices to attend Sunday school. As an instance of the effect of compulsory attendance at technical classes I would like to instance the Auckland plumbers, who are practically compelled to attend the Technical College, but not in the daytime. Every man who is apprenticed in Auckland has to produce the diploma of the Technical College before he can get a license to do sanitary plumbing. It takes an average student five years to get that diploma. The result of that is that during the past four or five years plumbing in Auckland has reached to such a pitch that we have competed with the Home institutions in the City and Guilds of London examinations, and the Auckland Technical College has done better for the past three years than any of the Home institutions in that examination. I instance that because I consider that there are many other trades here in which it would be of the greatest value to make it compulsory for the student to attend technical classes— in the daytime, of course. I may say from my experience in Scotland and England and also in New Zealand that there is not as much incentive here for apprentices to attend the technical college and technical classes as there is at Home, because of the dead-level of the arbitration awards. The tendency at Home is for a man to get better paid as soon as he becomes better qualified. There is not that tendency here. If you investigate the matter you will find that when an award is made for, say, carpentering or cabinetmaking, almost all the men get the same wage. Even the foremen get very little more than the others. I have urged the employers that they should differentiate—give a half-crown or so more per week to the men who were worth it —knowing that if they admitted that a man was worth a half-crown more he would really be worth ss. more. But the argument against it is "Ifwe do that it becomes the minimum at the next award," so there has been great difficulty in getting that brought about. With regard to the technical schools themselves, New Zealand has not up to the present realized the importance of having really well-built and well-equipped technical schools. The majority of the institutions have been, until the last .year or two, more or less of a makeshift character, and unless we are going to lag sadly behind in connection with technical education there must be a great deal more money spent here in providing buildings and equipment. We have gone very far in the direction of free technical education, but we have put the cart before the horse. We have provided free education, and have not provided the buildings and equipment for efficiently carrying it out. With reference to the teachers themselves in technical schools, at the present time they are under great disability, because they have to be paid out of the capitation that is earned. I consider that of all the teachers in New Zealand the technical instructors should be the best paid, for this reason : if you want a man who is teaching a trade subject to teach it well he must have had a thoroughly good experience in that trade. We know that in New Zealand at present, after the wave of prosperity we have had, there are excellent opportunities for men in trades, particularly on their own account. If we want to get the very best teachers we must make it worth while for them to give up the prospects of earning more than a mere pittance at the trade, and give them really good salaries. If we do not do that we will have to content ourselves with mediocre men. With reference to technical education generally, we are in a peculiar position in New Zealand, in this way : that we are not a manufacturing country, and I do not think we ever shall be, unless the state of affairs becomes even more artificial than it is at present. But we always shall have the domestic trades in this country. By these I mean the building trade, plumbing, and painting, and carpentering, and so on ; a certain amount of engineering, particularly perhaps in the near future with reference to electrical engineering and civil engineering, and a certain amount of
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repair-work in connection with mechanical engineering. In all these branches we should equip our students well. Then, in connection with all these particulars we shall be well equipped, we shall be able to show the students the most up-to-date methods, and we shall have the best teachers available. May 1 say in passing that one of the functions of the Technical School here has been catering for commercial training. The teaching of commercial subjects seems not to have been very warmly advocated by the Department. I think that is a mistake, for this reason :we are a country that has to do a great deal of distributing and a great deal of clearing ; we have to collect our raw commodities, and we have to distribute our imports. That must mean necessarily the employment of a comparatively large clerical staff. If we are going to have clerks at all, it is better we should have efficient and well-trained clerks rather than those who have picked up their commercial training as best they could. The subjects typewriting and shorthand particularly have been condemned because of the fact that they are not taught until the students perhaps have been .at secondary schools. Ido not altogether agree with that, for this reason : that particular class of work—shorthand and typewriting—is usually done by girls. A girl seems to be admirably adapted for that kind of work, and it is a class of work that does not require a tremendous amount of brains. It requires a good general education, and a girl, generally speaking, fills her vocation in life and becomes a wife and mother. I see no reason whatever why we should not encourage the teaching of these subjects to girls with the idea of enabling them to earn their living. It is a healthy occupation as a rule, and they are brought into contact with a fairly decent class of people. I think it is better than factory life for girls. It has been stated that the pupils very often cannot spell, and cannot write, and so on. That is largely true, I believe, of pupils coming from the private commercial schools. If you take an institution like ours, where the girls receive a certain amount of instruction in typewriting in the first and second years, you will find that we devote five hours a week to the teaching of English, apart from the teaching of geography, which is probably as much time as is devoted to the teaching of English in secondary schools. When these girls go out at the end of two years into offices you will find that they give very great satisfaction. In fact, one firm here has over twenty of our clerks employed, and various others have ten, twelve, and sixteen of our clerks. Therefore Ido not think that the introduction of typewriting and shorthand has caused the general elementary education of the pupils to be neglected. Dealing particularly now with another branch of technical education —namely, the. arts side —I consider that the technical schools should take applied art, and for these reasons : It is generally recognized, I think, that if a person is to be a successful designer for any commercial production he is far more likely to be successful if he understands the possibilities of the medium in which the execution of that design is to be carried out. I will take for instance furniture-designing. I take it that the great majority of the men who design artistic furniture are or should be familiar with the actual practical process of furniture-making. I will take as another instance the various art industries in connection with the printing trade. It is absolutely essential in order that the designer may be able to get exactly the result that he wants that he should be familiar with the carrying-out of that design. In many schools this is recognized.' In some of the most modern schools in Germany in which you have the applied arts taught they actually carry out in the schools the very designs that have been made ; and if you are going to divorce the design from the actual work of carrying it out, by having the design made at one school and the actual carrying out of the design done at another, it will be a great mistake. I would like to say a word with reference to the art side of the Technical School and the alleged overlapping that has taken place. The teaching of art has gone on in the Technical School for many years. When I came here in 1903 there was some art teaching, and there was no question at that stage of overlapping, though there was a class of exactly the same character at the Elam School of Art. Soon after I came here I visited many of the primary schools and saw the state of the drawing there, and I suggested to the Board that what was required really was the training of teachers to fit them to give proper instruction in the primary schools. The Board imported from Home an art master who had had considerable experience in this work. In fact, the Chief Art Inspector in England told me three years ago that he was probably the best man in England we could have got for the position. His first work when he came here was to take classes of teachers. These were in the evenings, of course, and on Saturday mornings ; and then he visited the schools and advised the teachers as to the carrying-out of that work. The net result of that has been that I believe at the present time the art teaching in the Auckland primary schools is second to none in any part of the world. I had the pleasure of attending the International Art Congress of 1908, and the general work of the majority of the schools represented was decidedly inferior to that carried out in Auckland. Side by side with this instruction of teachers we instituted classes for technical students in various branches of art, such as drawing in connection with cabinetmaking, carpentering, the printing trade, and so on, and gradually the thing grew until we had to get a second art instructor, who has to devote a part of his time to the Technical College and part of his time to the teaching of teachers and also to visiting the schools. That is the position so far as the art teachers in the Technical College are concerned. It is only in a period of several years that some brilliant art students will appear, and if they are going to carry out applied art on commercial lines, either in connection with the printing trade or any of the other local art industries, it is very necessary they should receive advanced instruction, and one of the most important subjects required for art students is drawing from life. However, this we did not institute until after I came back from England. Then a deputation, calling themselves the Advanced Art Workers of Auckland, waited upon me and asked me if I would endeavour to institute a life class. They were all connected with some art industry or other, or interested in art in the direction of getting special training. The first question I asked them was, " Why do you not go to the Elam School of Art ? " The answer they gave me was that they did not get the instruction there, and they said, " If you will allow your art instructor, Mr. Wallace, to take the life class we shall be prepared to attend." That is how the life class started. Recognition was granted by the Department, and in the following year was refused after representations probably from
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the Elam School of Art. The other advanced art work that is going on in the College is in various branches, such as, for instance, designing in leather-work and designing in stencilling, and so on ; and Lmay say the instruction that has been provided has been so efficient that all the better students have been attracted to go there. And I think it would be a very great pity if they were debarred from going to these classes, because in many instances they are attending side by side other classes in the College. Well, we then, dropped the life class at the instigation of the Department. What has been the result ? These people who would not attend the Elam School of Art started a life class on their own account, for which they provided a model. But they had no one to criticize. Some of them again came to me and said, " Will you endeavour to give us the instruction we want, because we are practising, but the result is practically nil on account of our not getting criticism of our work." As a result a life class has been started again at the College, but these students have simply to pay the fees, and, of course, there is no capitation from the Department in any shape or form towards the instruction. 4. Mr. Kirk.] Why do you not send them back to the Elam School of Art ?—They will not go, because they say the instruction there is not efficient. 5. Are they capable of judging ?—They are some of the best art students in the Dominion. 6. They think they can get better instruction at the Technical College ? —That is the point. I would like to deal briefly now with the matter of agricultural education. That is undoubtedly the most important branch of education in the Dominion. It appears to me that for a number of years we have not realized the fact that the whole of the prosperity of New Zealand depends on the land. And I would like to utter this word of warning : that probably in the next five or six years we shall find that South Africa is very seriously competing with us in the Home markets. I know that before Lord Milner vacated South Africa he had outlined a scheme of agricultural education wh'ch included co-option. This was drawn up with the advice of some of the best experts in the world, and as soon as Mr. Botha came into power he was broad-minded enough and knew enough to see that this was a very valuable report. That report has been adopted and is now in force in South Africa, with the result that in a very few years we shall find very great competition from South Africa in the produce of the land. I would also like to say that it appears to me we cannot altogether divorce ourselves from what has happened in New Zealand in considering the future of agricultural education. We have rightly or wrongly brought about an artificial state of affairs which has meant high wages for the trades in the towns. We have bolstered up the trades of the town at the expense of the country. The result has been that it has been very difficult to obtain labour in the country, and we have brought about a state of white slavery for children that is probably unequalled anywhere. I refer particularly to the milking that is done by children in the backblocks. Taking all these things into consideration, I think we have to look around and see if there is not some way to produce in New Zealand the very best commodities at the lowest price, so that we may be able to compete in the markets of the world. Briefly, it seems to me that our agricultural instruction should begin in the primary schools. This would, of course, entail school-gardens at all the schools, and the efficient training of the teachers to carry out the work. I still maintain it is just as important to teach this work in the city schools as in the country, because the problem of the world to-day is to stop the migration to the towns, and I think if the children in the town schools are given an opportunity to carry out some of this work in connection with school-gardens they will probably get a taste for it, and that when they come to choose an occupation they will want to go back on the land. In most cities there are domains and parks in which portions of land could be set aside specially for this purpose. The domains and parks are the property of the people, and what better use could they be put to than to provide instruction of this kind, which would be reflected in the additional prosperity of the whole Dominion ? Having made this compulsory in all our schools, we should next take steps to do away with the small schools by consolidation, and in the consolidated school provide special instruction in elementary agriculture, including fruitgrowing, poultry-raising, beekeeping, manual training, and domestic science. The children could be conveyed to these consolidated schools ; and in this connection I would like to point out that in the past there has been practically no co-operation between the Railway Department and the Education Department in the matter of running trains to suit the pupils. I think that is a matter that requires looking into, and I am quite sure that if it were arranged we could get many pupils conveyed to a central school who at the present time have to go to these small scattered schools. In addition to these consolidated schools, which would in the country provide the higher branches of education similar to the district high'schools, we should have special agricultural schools in certain districts at which pupils would not attend until about eighteen years of age. They would attend by means of allowances from the Department, and they would obtain a thorough groundwork, which would benefit those who required to go on to an agricultural college, one of which, I think, would probably be quite sufficient for the Dominion. This would be an institution probably costing £250,000, all properly equipped, and would be established on the lines of the Macdonald College at St. Anne's in Canada. This college then would provide agricultural instruction of the highest type, and at such a college, too, our teachers would get special training for teaching agriculture in our consolidated schools ; and also arrangements could be made for giving short periods of training there to teachers who are going to teach in the primary schools. Then, in addition to that we might have our farmapprenticeship schools, where we could turn out excellent farmers and managers of farms. If we had such a scheme as I have briefly outlined we would probably find that the return to the country would be a hundredfold, taking into consideration the fact that practically the only industry in New Zealand is that of agriculture. 7. Mr. Davidson.] I understand you favour the reorganization of our system of education in such a way that Education Boards or similar bodies shall control the primary, secondary, and technical education within their district ?—That is so.
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8. Would you have the teachers and Inspectors of the Dominion paid on a Dominion scale and controlled by the Department ?'■ —That is what I advocate. The teachers would not be actually controlled by the Department, but by the local Board of Education. But the Inspectors would be directly under the Department. 9. In- this district the manual instruction in connection with the primary schools is under your control ?—Yes. 10. Do you think it is w 7 ise to have both primary and technical education controlled by the one authority ?—I do. If you were to carry out what I have advocated, then you would probably have one official, the same as they have in America in some districts, and in England generally. In England, for instance, the County Council controls the whole of the education in a given area, and it has as its chief official a Director of Education, who is responsible for the whole of the education, whether primary or technical or manual. Of course, he has under him various experts, but he is the chief responsible official. 11. I understand you object to the capitation grant as the method of providing means for carrying out manual instruction ?—I think it is altogether too tedious and too expensive. It is generally recognized now that a subject such as brush drawing is part and parcel of the primary-school curriculum, and why give a special capitation for that any more than for the teaching of geography ? If you are going to continue the present system of Boards I would suggest that the Department should give a sufficient sum to the Board, and let the Board provide the necessary payment out of that fund. 12. That would do away with the necessity for so much clerical work ?—Yes, and therefore save expense. 13. Can you account for the difference between the number of schools in the Auckland District receiving manual instruction as compared with the number in other districts : for instance, I find that in Auckland 43 per cent, of the primary schools have manual instruction, while in Southland 97 per cent, have it, and in Wanganui 93 per cent, have it ? —I think I can readily account for that. It is because of the very large number of small single-teacher schools here, and the half-time schools, in which handwork is not compulsory. I think Auckland Province is probably unique in the number of these schools. So far as the teachers are concerned, I think there is no Board in New Zealand that has done so much for the training of teachers in this work as the Auckland Board. Over a thousand teachers during the last ten years have received special instruction in the teaching of art and hand-work. 14. I find that the percentage of revenue used in connection with the administration of technical education amounts to 12 per cent: do you think that is excessive ? —I think it is generally recognized that from 10 per cent, to 15 per cent, is a fair sum. 15. You remarked that the Department discouraged a course of instruction in commercial subjects ?—That is so. 16. I find in taking out the figures that the number of pupils who qualified for capitation is equal to 50 per cent, of the whole : do you not think that indicates that the Department has encouraged, rather than discouraged, a course of instruction in commercial subjects ?—I will show you exactly what I mean by concrete example. In 1908, when I was in England, the Department gazetted new regulations regarding the payment of capitation in day technical schools, and suggested that instead of paying on 800 hours, as it had been doing in the case of commercial subjects in a day technical school, it would only pay on 400 hours. There was a good deal of controversy up and down the Dominion about it. Eventually the Department agreed to pay on 800 hours for that year, and the next yearit was to be 600, and after that it was to be on 400 hours. However, these regulations have since been revised, and the payment made in the day class is the same for commercial work as for the other branches, but for the evening classes under the new regulations published in 1911 the capitation rates paid for commercial classes are very much lower than the rates paid for arts and science, and so on. 17. What is your opinion on the subject of typewriting : could not typewriting be taught during, say, the last term of the pupil's course ? —Yes, it could ; but if it is taught properly it could be made a useful adjunct in connection with other work. For instance, there is no doubt a typist is taught better if, instead of having a concentrated thirty hours during one week, the pupil has thirty hours spread over thirty weeks. If the work is correlated in this way, and use is made of the typewriter for science notes, &c, it tends to neatness, and helps in the teaching of typewriting. 18. It has been said that the course of typewriting has been used really as a capitation winner : you do not agree with that ?—That is not our experience, and I can only speak of our Auckland experience. 19. I think you strongly approve of local taxation for the purpose of raising funds for all educational purposes except the payment of teachers' and Inspectors' salaries, the amount so raised to be subsidized by the State ? —Yes, to the extent of £2 for £1 raised. Ido not mean to convey the idea that I advocate the whole of the money required for education, except salaries, being raised locally. The point I intended to make was this : that all teachers' salaries should be paid as at the present time according to a colonial scale out of the consolidated revenue ; that local taxation for education, subsidized by the State, as I have mentioned, should be compulsory ; and that the colonial scale of salaries should then be looked upon as the minimum rates. Then a Board of Education in any district could provide out of its ordinary revenue any increases to salaries of any teachers if it deemed such increases necessary. 20. Does your personal experience go to show that where such a system is in operation, greater local interest is taken in education, better supervision is exercised, and that altogether you have a more efficient system ? —Undoubtedly. I have no doubt about that. One can lay it down as an axiom that money spend locally should to some extent be raised locally.
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21. Mr. Thomson.] Why should a national work be a local charge ?—Largely to increase emulation. I think there is very little of that in New Zealand. What happens at the present time ? I will take technical education as an instance. Auckland raises a sum of money and gets a pound-for-pound subsidy. Then some other town like Christchurch will get practically the same money given to it for .its- technical school without any consideration as to the amount that has been voluntarily contributed in the district. If you make each district to some extent depend on its own efforts, undoubtedly you will arouse a much greater interest, and you will also prevent the anomalies that have been occurring in the past. Many districts are favourably treated in comparison with others. If you take Napier and look at the returns for grants for technical buildings and equipment in the last ten years you will find that it works out at something over 10s. per head of population, wheieas if you take a return of the same grants for Auckland you will find it works out at something less than 2s. per head. 22. Are you including in that the cost of the new Technical School you are going to open shortly ? —So far as that building is concerned, we have not received a penny from the Department, except in the way of pound-for-pound subsidy. We have been promised £4,000 for equipment, but we have raised something like £3,000 locally in addition to the gift of £10,000 from the Auckland Savings-bank. 23. What is the main purpose you desire —is it the mere spending of money or the mere acquisition of buildings ? In addition to what you got locally you do not wish us to believe that, the State should come along and give you money for the purpose of giving it ?—Yes, because we require it. We have now an emasculated building—three stories instead of five —and when we go into it we shall have to continue renting shanties to carry on. 24. Speaking as the Director of Technical Instruction in the Auckland District, can you say that in your opinion there is waste and extravagance in connection with the administration of technical education ? —We put it this way : that the same money could be spent much more efficiently than it is being spent at the present time. 25. Can you specify any particular direction ?—I think there is too much money spent probably in erecting buildings in some country places for technical education. I believe that Feilding received something like £1 per head of the population for its Technical School. 26. You consider that there should be centralization in connection with technical instruction instead of having all these small schools ?—No; I believe.in having one good central school where there is a big centre of population, but I also believe in having consolidated schools in such places as Hamilton, for instance. 27. Do you not think there is a general complaint against the carriage of children in Standards V and VI to central manual schools even —that it is looked upon as a waste of time and effort ?—I should not say it is generally : I should say so in some cases. Generally that feeling is caused through ignorance on the part of those concerned. But you very often find that after pupils have been attending manual classes for a little while, instead of opposition being shown, other schools in the district ask to be included. 28. How are you going to consolidate all the schools of a district when the people object to it ? — The people objected to it in America in the initial stages, but not now when they know what it means. 29. What do you consider the first essentials of a good sound education ?—A thorough knowledge of the mother tongue, in order that the individual may be able to express himself or herself clearly and forcibly and have a knowledge of what he or she reads, &c. 30. I suppose you are aware that men who have employed large numbers of boys have expressed the opinion that a boy's education to-day is not to be compared with what it was before we started manual and technical instruction in New Zealand ? —I have heard that opinion expressed, but Ido not think they are competent to judge from an educational standpoint. A boy 7 may have been able to do certain routine work better under the old system than under the present system, but that does not say he was better educated. 31. Supposing you got a boy or a girl who could write shorthand or do typewriting, and you found their spelling was bad and their grammar weak, what would you infer ?—I would infer that they had not received the instruction that they should have in these subjects. But one could not say that altogether, because, if you take spelling, I know that one of the greatest professors in England could not spell at all. You cannot judge by an isolated case. 32. Would you not infer we are trying to do too much wutli the primary-school child ?—I do not think we are trying to do too much, but we are trying to do it in the wrong way. One of the greatest troubles at the present time is that we try to teach a hundred children as if they were so many marbles cast in the same mould. If we are going to give a first-class education we want a much smaller classification than we have now, so that we may be able to teach each child as an individual. 33. You say the teaching of commercial subjects in technical schools is not favourably entertained by the Department : do you not think it is better to confine that to the high schools in order to prevent overlapping ? —I do not think there is any overlapping at the present time. As a matter of fact, the Grammar School does not teach commercial subjects in the same way. All this overlapping that is now talked about would be entirely prevented if you had the one authority controlling all education. That, to my mind, is probably a necessary change that should take place in this country. 34. In regard to the instruction of women in domestic subjects, do you think it would be a good thing to have hostels in connection with the secondary schools in which the girls could receive all the necessary instruction without being made school subjects ?—lt would be very excellent, but it would cost a fabulous sum to provide for the training of every girl in them. Somebody- suggested a hostel for twenty girls, but twenty is a small percentage of the female population. The hostel system is undoubtedly excellent. I have in my mind a scheme for the training of girls for domestic service by which we would give them some special qualification which would be recognized by mistresses, and would mean better wages and better conditions, and more efficient service on the part of the girls.
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35. So far as the Auckland District is concerned, you think the expenditure on buildings for technical nstruction has not been sufficient ?—lt has not provided anything like for the necessary requirements compared with other countries. We must take this into consideration, that the value of money here, is less than in European countries. Probably a building that costs £20,000 here could be built for £10,000 at Home. 36. Mr. Kirk.] You advocate the consolidation schools, as is done in the United States ?—Yes, and in Canada. 37. What States of the United States do it ?—Ohio is one which does it most, and they are doing it a good deal in Nebraska and Illinois. 38. Why are they doing it in these States ? —To get greater efficiency largely. 39. Is it not a fact that the effort to get that greater efficiency has become necessary owing to the scarcity of teachers ? —I do not think it makes a very great difference in the number of teachers actually employed. It means a saving of the time of the teachers certainly. I know 7 there is that difficulty in many States. Of course, as you know, education in America differs a great deal in different States, and I do not think that in the States in which consolidation has taken place there has been that dearth of teachers. Of course, lam speaking without having looked the point up. 40. Do you not know that it is a fact that as a general rule they are suffering very much in the United States and Canada from the lack of teachers ?—From the lack of male teachers. 41. I say from the lack of female teachers ? —Not to the extent you seem to imagine. I have been through America twice, and I would not say I am under that impression. 42. Did you make inquiries on the point, or are you speaking generally ? —1 spent all my time in making inquiries, and, speaking generally, whilst there is perhaps a scarcity of well-qualified teachers, Ido not think there is much difficulty in getting teachers of a kind. There is a scarcity in Auckland and Southland of qualified teachers. 43. Is not that one of the factors that has contributed towards these consolidation schools 'I— I do not think it has the slightest effect. 44. Do you know anything about the payment of teachers in America I —Generally, there again they differ—they are amongst the highest paid and the lowest paid. In some States they are very highly paid, and in some very poorly paid. 45. In the majority of the States they are poorly paid ? —ln the country schools. In the big towns they are better paid than in any part of the world. 46. You believe in taxes being raised locally ?—Yes. 47. What was the contract price for your new Technical School ?—£20,882 for the portion that has been put up. 48. What is it actually going to cost ?—I suppose, £2,000 on to that. We found that the subbasement could be turned into a caretaker's house. 49. With equipment, what is it going to cost ?—lt ought to cost, with equipment, fully £35,000 : but it will not cost £30,000. 50. Do you think you would have a bigger chance of obtaining that money if each individual ratepayer had a voice in voting upon it ?—I think so. I think if to-day the Auckland City Council were putting loan proposals before the public and included a sum of £10,000 for the Technical College it would be voted for, as they voted at Devonport for the manual-training school. 51. And supposing the sum was £35,000, do you think you would get it ?—I do not know whether we would at the present time. It is not necessary to raise £35,000. There is a subsidy of £1 for £1. and all we want is from £12,000 to £14,000 to finish it. 52. What justification do you urge for your contention that technical-school teachers should receive greater salaries than primary-school teachers : you do not agree with those who say that the greatest work in life is the training of the young ? —I do ; but the labourer is worthy of his hire, and it is not every man who will make a personal sacrifice at the expense of his wife and children for the sake of education. Such men are exceptional. 53. You do not think primary-school teachers are making this sacrifice to the extent of 100 per cent. ?—I would not agree with you. 54. Mr. Wells.] How do you propose to elect your Education Boards ?—On the parliamentary franchise. 55. Would you make no special effort to secure the representation of men interested in university or technical work ? —I mentioned I would co-opt. 56. Then, you would not approve of a Board of Control for technical education in Auckland ?— Under present conditions I would. At the present time the Technical College has to go cap in hand to the Government for everything it wants. If we had a Board of Control it would mean that each of the bodies having representatives on the Board of Control would have to contribute. It is purely a financial matter, and, to be candid, I would welcome any Board that would find money. 57. Do you think there should be a Dominion scale of salaries for the teachers in the manual schools ?—For all teachers. 58. You mentioned that you thought no students should enter a training college under the age of twenty ?—That is so. 59. He would still be two years in the training college, so that he would be twenty-two before he began to earn a salary ? —At the present time, if a boy wants to become a carpenter or a plumber he has to undergo a six-years apprenticeship, and he is earning a much smaller wage than a pupil-teacher is getting. If it is necessary to train a carpenter or a plumber for six years until he is twenty-one, surely it is necessary we should devote more time to academic training for teachers. 60. But a full-fledged carpenter will earn more at the end of his apprenticeship than a student just out of the training college ? —He should not do. He will earn £2 10s. a week.
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61. You do not think if the age were raised it would lessen the supply at all ?—lt would at the present time, but you would have to make the profession more attractive than it is at the present time. 62. -How long have you been training teachers in woodwork and cookery ?—We have not been training any at all. We have had a sort of makeshift business. We have taken girls for two years at a cookery centre, and they have spent most of their time in the day assisting, and in the second year they give a certain number of demonstrations and practical lessons. Many of them have turned out very satisfactorily, and others, of course, we have never employed at all. 63. But a large number of country teachers have had training in woodwork ?—Only the teachers who attend on Saturday morning. 64. You still find it necessary to import woodwork and cookery teachers ?—We have not been able to give sufficiently high salaries to attract them. There were several primary-school teachers, and generally the best primary-school teacher has been the best man at the woodwork, but he would not think it worth while to leave primary-school work and the chances of promotion in order to become a woodwork instructor. 65. Is it not exceedingly important that a man who is going to teach woodwork should become a teacher ? —I would put it the other way round : I prefer a well-educated artisan who trains for a teacher. 66. Mr. Pirani.] I suppose in your idea a large number of students in a centre could be taught very much more cheaply than students scattered all over a thinly populated district ? —Undoubtedly. 67. How do you account for the fact that there are comparatively so few students in the technical classes in Auckland ? In Wanganui this year we have something like 800 students with a population of 10,000, while in Auckland, with a population of over 110,000, you had an attendance of 1,300 in 1910 ?—Different places will differ so far as appreciation or recognition of the value of education is concerned, but I think the position in Auckland is largely due to our lack of accommodation. I have no hesitation in saying that if we had better facilities we should have three or four thousand students here. If you saw the shanties we have had to work in you would wonder not that we had 1,300 pupils, but any at all. 68. When the new Training College is fit for occupation, do you think it would be advisable to have compulsory continuation classes there ? —I think so, undoubtedly, provided you make it in the daytime. That system is gradually spreading over Europe. 69. You would not be in favour of compulsory night classes for boys and day classes for girls ? — Ido not believe in evening classes at all. If you are going to consider the future of the nation you must not compel boys who have been working very hard for eight hours a day to attend classes in the evening for two hours and a half, or whatever time it may be in the evening, with the study that entails. From my experience it is no use boys simply attending the classes and going away again ; they must do individual work outside. The teachers can do the teaching, but the boys must do the learning. I understand that the amount of compulsory attendance mentioned in the Act is five hours per week. 70. Surely, compelling them to attend five hours per week would not mean occupying every night of their week ? —No ; but I do not think it is a good thing even twice a week. 71. Mr. Hogben.] Do you know how many medical inspections of each child was recommended by the International Conference on School Hygiene last year ?—I think it was twelve. 72. Do you know that the Conference recommended three in the whole course of a child's school life ?—I was not aware of it. 73. You would not agree with that ? —I would not disagree with that at all. I was merely giving my opinion as a layman. If experts who have studied the matter and gone into it thoroughly say three times is ample I would say I bow to their judgment. George Joseph Garland examined on oath. (No. 23.) 1. The Chairman.] You are Chairman of the Auckland Education Board ?—Yes. 2. How long have you been in that capacity ?—This is my second year. I was a member of the Board for six years. I have been a member and Chairman of School Committees for twenty-five years. f may say I have not prepared any statement in reference to the subject-matter of your Commission, but I will be pleased to answer any questions. 3. Mr. Davidson.] Are you in favour of the present method of appointing teachers in the Auckland Education District ? —Yes. 4. As a former member of a School Committee, do you see any objection to it ?—I think the present system is preferable to the one we had some years ago. 5. What is your opinion as to the size of the Auckland Education District ? —I think that probably for the next two or three years the Auckland District should be left as it is ; but in the near future, when the Ongarue line is put through to Stratford, that country served by the railway which is now under our control will naturally fall, in my opinion, into the Taranaki District. Again, there is a large district to the eastward of Taupo and running down to Hawke's Bay that I think will naturally fall to the Hawke's Bay Board in the near future. But until the railways are opened and facilities for transit given I think the district should remain as it is. 6. Do you think that if part of the cost of education were thrown upon local taxation it would lead to better administration and greater economy and increased efficiency ?—I do not. 7. If the cost of the upkeep of the school buildings were raised locally, and the amount of taxation were subsidized by the State, would that not lead to a closer supervision of expenditure ?—I do not think so, 8. What is your opinion on the question of the control of the inspectorate : do you think that the body that has the framing of the syllabus should have the control of those who have the interpreting
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and working of the syllabus ? —As far as I can judge the inspectorate would be better if it were Universal, and if what one might call a universal interpretation of the syllabus were given. I think something might be done in that direction. A great many teachers, so far as I can judge —I am speaking now of country districts—would have something definite to go on instead of having to interpret the syllabus for themselves. 9. Have you noticed the great difference in the salaries paid to Inspectors in different parts of the Dominion ?—I have not noticed that. I thought they were about equal. We have a stated salary for the Inspectors, and a special allowance for the Chief. 10. Mr. Poland.] Would you expect the Chief Inspector of a district such as Westland, which has as many pupils as there are in the Mount Eden School, to have the same salary as the Chief Inspector of a district like Auckland ? —Certainly not. 11. Would you advocate that the various education districts in New Zealand should be made more uniform as to the area controlled by each Board ?—I think it would be a wise step if some were amalgamated. While some education districts may be considered to be too bulky, others, in my opinion, are on the small side. It is just like a large school—it does not cost so much per capita to teach a large school as a small one. j| 12. You think the larger districts would tend to economy in administration I —l should say so. 13. Do you advocate any alteration with regard to the functions of Boards and School Committees, or do you believe that the present functions of School Committees are sufficient ?—I think School Committees do very excellent work, and Ido not see why they should be displaced in any way. They are the local people, and they understand the local surroundings. They take care of the property of the Board, which is the property of the State, and I think the nation as a whole has a great deal to be thankful for. 14. Would you be in favour of the functions of Committees being extended, say, in the appointment of teachers ?—No. I speak advisedly as an old Chairman of Committees. I will tell you why. The persons who see the teachers at work are best qualified to judge as to the best teachers, and promotion should be given according to the ability of the teacher. 15. Can you suggest to the Commission any means by which we could reduce the expenditure on education out of the consolidated revenue ?— Well, you cannot cut down salaries, and you cannot cutdown building grants. Buildings must be furnished to teach the pupils in. You cannot help the increased cost which has been going on in timber and other materials, to say nothing about labour. You cannot economize there. The price of land has also gone up, and you cannot economize there. I fail to see where you can effect any material saving in the grants for education. 16. You approve of control being exercised over the expenditure by the Department ?—I think it is absolutely essential. 17. Does the Department always accept the recommendations of the Board ?—No, not always. 18. Does the Department make investigations on its own account ? —At times, yes. I may say that since I have been Chairman the Department has treated us perhaps with a little more liberality than in former years. 19. Mr. Kirk.] Assuming that a Dominion scale of promotion for teachers was in operation and that several applicants for a position were all on the one grade, would you favour all these names being sent on to the Committee for selection and allow the Committee to choose one ? —I do not think that position could arise. It might be possible, but Ido not think so. 20. Supposing three men on the same grade applied for a position, would you or would you not favour these names being sent on to the Committee to make a final choice ?—I would much prefer the choice to rest with the Chief Inspector and the Inspectors rather than with the Committee, because it is only the men who see the teachers at work who are capable of judging, in my opinion. You might just as well spin a coin otherwise. As to Dominion promotion and a scheme for grading, I should be delighted to see that in operation. It is one of the things I brought before the Institute here some years ago, soon after I became a member of the Board, and in that scheme, which was sent on to the then Minister, provision was made for a Court of appeal to be set up. I suggested in my scheme that the Inspector-General, should be Chairman of that Court of appeal, and that the other members of the Court should be the Chief Inspector of the district and some other person whom the Board would appoint, a member to be appointed by'the Minister, and a member to be appointed by the Institute— five in all. The Court of appeal would take these things into consideration ; allot to each man the position it considered he was best qualified to fill, and then if the man felt he had a grievance he had this Court of appeal to appeal to. I think a grading scheme for the whole of the Dominion is a very excellent idea, and one I should welcome most heartily. I trust when the Commission makes its findingit will give that question due consideration. 21. Have you any suggestions to make as to an extension of the powers vested in Education Boards, or are you satisfied they have reasonably sufficient powers now ? —I think our powers arcreasonably extensive. lam not hankering after greater powers. 22. Would you or would you not consider the granting of power to an Education Board to retire compulsorily at the age of sixty any teacher who they considered should be retired ?-—I have bestowed some thought upon that, and that is one of the questions which, in my opinion, a Board of appeal or of experts ought to judge rather than a Boaid of Education. I know there are cases where the retirement of certain teachers would be advantageous to the schools, but we do not wish to inflict any hardship, and so we have to be very careful and cautious as to what action we take. We retire teachers now at the age of sixty-five, and we have found that works very well so far. 23. Do you think it wise and advantageous and in the best interests of the students that there should be the optional subjects which are now to be found in the syllabus ?—Yes, I think it is wise to have the syllabus elastic enough to take in the various subjects therein mentioned. I approve of
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the syllabus. It is in the interpretation of the syllabus that the difficulties arise, particularly in the small country districts. lam speaking of the primary schools. 24. Speaking of the secondary schools, you know a boy can if he likes choose such subjects as typewriting, shorthand, and book-keeping : do you think it is wise that the time of school life should be taken up with instruction in these subjects ?—I am rather of opinion that the time devoted to these subjects would be far more profitably devoted to agriculture. 25. Mr. Leys was before us to-day, and, speaking as a business man, he said he did not think itwas advantageous to have these subjects taught, and that the boys coming to him, at any rate, showed a lack of knowledge in what he considered to be the essentials ? —That has been my experience too. 26. Do you think then that more time should be devoted to the essentials ?—Yes. 27. Mr. Wells.] Can you tell the Commission how that grading scheme is being viewed by the teachers of the Auckland District ? —I have not met a single teacher since it has been in operation here who has expressed regret at the scheme coming into operation. Of course, I have not seen them all. 28. In your opinion has the institution of that scheme resulted in less canvassing and log-rolling ? —Yes, there is none now, because the Board has divested itself of all patronage. 29. Can you recommend that scheme to other districts from your knowledge of it here \ —Most heartily. 30. Do you approve of the present system of electing Boards ?—Until a better one can be found. 31. Do you think that election on the parliamentary roll would be any improvement ?—I am afraid it would not be very much of an improvement, lam speaking generally. Since I have been a member of the Board I do not think there has been 2 per cent, of the votes that ought to have been recorded that have not been recorded, and we have had no informal votes for the last three or four elections. That shows me, at any rate, there are intelligent men exercising the privilege, and that they most religiously look after it. It is very rare to have a voting-paper' coming into the office after the day specified by law. 32. You are not prepared to recommend any better scheme than that at present in existence ? — I do not see any better one. 33. Do you find any undue delay in getting new schools built ?—At times we have had delays, but I cannot recall an instance just now 7 . 34. Can you tell us anything about the want of modern conveniences in teachers' residences in this district ? —That trouble was largely overcome by the schools being grouped and a sum being specified for each group for necessary alterations. There are only a few still to be done. 35. Do you think anything could be done in this district in the way of centralizing country schools —closing three or four schools and opening a central one ?—There are places wffiere railway facilities obtain where that could be done, but I do not think there are many. 36. Probably the cost of conveyance in this district would be higher than in many other districts ? —Yes, I should say very much higher than in Canterbury. 37. Do you think there should be differential rates for the different districts ?—That might overcome it, but it would be very hard to adjust matters. 38. In regard to retiring a teacher at the age of sixty, do you think that when a man has got past his best work in a position of some responsibility he should be allowed to apply for a less difficult position w-ithout jeopardizing his superannuation, at all ?—I see no reason why he should not take a lower-grade school if he wished it. 39. You. think that would be in the interests of the service ? —Certainly, because it would induce young men to come in. 40. The Chairman.] What burden would that cast on the superannuation fund ?—Probably £15,000 or £20,000 a year : I cannot say definitely. 41. Mr. Wells.] As Chairman of the Board, can you make any suggestions by which the efficiency of the system can be improved ?—I could make a suggestion, but I am afraid it is outside the pale of practical politics, because it means more money. Give higher salaries and you will get greater efficiency. 42. You think the salaries are too low at present ?—I certainly think so in a great many cases. 43. The Chairman.] How will you deal with the present difficulty in Auckland in the matter of providing proper playgrounds for tlie..sch.ools ?—1 am glad you have asked me that question. I think that the law provides that we shall do our share towards additional playgrounds, and we have always been willing to do that. As an evidence of that I may say we found £120 towards the purchase of a piece of ground for the Napier Street School, costing £220. The Department gave us the balance. You know that the Municipal Corporations Act gives power to a Municipality to spend, I think, 20 per cent, of the rates in any one year for the purpose of assisting education. If the extension of playingareas could be brought within that provision I should say it would be an excellent thing tor the schools in this particular city. I think if the matter was put before the ratepayers they would vote a sum of money for this purpose. 44. Take the school we visited on Friday : how would you get over the difficulty there ? —I think that property would cost probably £1,500. If the City Council found £500, lam quite sure my Board would find a third of the cost and the Department would find the other third. There are three other schools, at any rate, that require attention, but that is the worst. 45. What would you get for £1,500 ? —Not very much, unfortunately. 46. Do you favour casting on the particular locality the upkeep of the schools so far as the maintenance of the buildings and grounds is concerned, or do you think it should come out, as it does now practically, of the consolidated revenue ? —I think it should come out of the consolidated revenue. 47. Would it surprise you to know that experience in the educational world has shown that wherever local effort is encouraged by liberal subsidy the result has been increased economy and more
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interest on the part of the people of that locality in education ?—I cannot challenge that, but it has not been my experience. My experience is that our system is one that has worked excellently for Cfver thirty years. 48. Mr. Kirk.] As land in the vicinity of that school seems to be dear, and as the school buildings appear to be old, is it possible to get any other site which would provide sufficient playgrounds with the moneys which would be realized by the sale of the present property ?—There is not a hope. 49. Mr. Pirani.} Is it not possible to get a portion of the cemetery ?—Not while you or I live.
Tuesday, 11th June, 1912. Sidney Ernest Lamb examined on oath. (No. 24.) 1. The Chairman.\ What is your position? —1 am Lecturer on Engineering at the Auckland School of Mines. 2. And what are your educational qualifications ?—I am a Bachelor of Science of the London University, with Honours in Engineering. I hold an Associateship of the Royal College of Science in Engineering and Physics, and was the holder of a Whitworth Exhibition. The School of Mines in Auckland having proved a failure, the question arises as to what position the engineering classes taught at the school now occupy in the educational system of New Zealand. Classes in engineering have been provided for those engineering students wdio require an education up to university standard, and which would prepare them to sit for the examinations held by the three premier engineering societies. Success in these examinations, together with the production of satisfactory evidence of practical experience, entitles the candidate to become a member of such a society ; he is then a qualified engineer. A university degree in engineering is accepted in lieu of the society's examination. At the present time thirtytwo students are in attendance at the school. These pupils, for various reasons, are unable to study at Christchurch, and yet require a university education. To encourage them, to take a systematic course of instruction, including the allied subjects of mathematics, physics, chemistry, and geology, an associateship course has been inaugurated. Six students have commenced the study for the associateship in the first year of its existence. The classes are also attended by architectural students, and by men who are candidates for the Government certificates of licensed surveyors, and for the third-class certificate for marine engineers. As far as pure theory goes, the lectures are arranged up to university standard, but it is recognized that the school is not equipped with sufficient apparatus to give such an efficient training as may be obtained at Christchurch. The authorities at Canterbury College have somehow gained an impression that we are in competition with them for Auckland students who would otherwise study at Christchurch. I say openly that we have no such intention. It is true that only two students have left Auckland to study at Christchurch during the last nine or ten years, but it must be remembered that this lack of students existed before the engineering classes started in Auckland, and to my knowledge five students have left this city to study engineering in England or America during the last two years, and that goes far to explain why so few attend the school at Christchurch. A system of scholarships has been advocated as a means likely to popularize the southern school, and I think some additional students may be attracted by such a scheme. I offer a suggestion which I think might help very considerably towards that end. The system of study for the engineering degree has lately been altered. A student after matriculating may now complete the University examinations in four years, of which the first year of study may be taken at any of the affiliated colleges ; at the end of the first year the candidate sits for the Entrance Examination, consisting of papers on the allied sciences such as are taken for a B.Sc. degree. The subjects for the next or first Professional Examination are —(1) mathematics, (2) technical chemistry or geology, (3) freehand mechanical drawing, (4) descriptive geometry, (5) applied mechanics. All these subjects, with the exception of technical chemistry, occur in the degree course for miners, and the Auckland School of Mines is already recognized for the teaching of these subjects for the mining degree. I suggest that Auckland students be allowed to study for this examination at the School of Mines, and then to complete their training in Christchurch. lam aware that a similar application made to the Senate two years ago was refused, mainly because elementary steam was then a subject for this examination, and it was thought that a difficulty would occur in the following year when students had to study advanced steam. This difficulty has now been removed by placing the elementary steam in a later year. Under this scheme Auckland students would spend two instead of three years at Christchurch, and students who commenced the study of engineering in Auckland would undoubtedly be encouraged to complete their degree by proceeding to Christchurch. This suggestion is deserving of earnest consideration, as I am convinced its adoption would be of considerable benefit to both centres of education. The opinion has been expressed that the Technical College may in the future be able to impart the necessary instruction in engineering to those students who do not require a university education. If a university education means taking a degree, then'l dissent altogether from, such a view. In my opinion all professional engineers, architects, or surveyors should have the benefit of a university training, whether they elect to sit for a degree or not. This opinion is not antagonistic to the precedent established by other universities ; for instance, one of the latest universities is Birmingham, and there not only is provision made for degree students, but a course is provided for unmatriculated students, at the end of which a certificate is awarded. The latter is on all-fours with what is now done in engineering at Auckland. When the population of New Zealand has increased to such an extent as to w 7 arrant the provision of advanced instruction in engineering at the technical colleges, then also another university school of engineering will be required, and Auckland seems to be the natural position for such an addition. In England there is a university college teaching engineering for about every one and a quarter million inhabitants; we find the same proportion in Scotland and Wales. In Australia the proportion rises to one and a half million. As there are one million people in New Zealand to our one engineering college, at some not-distant future there will be the need of a second engineering school, and the Auckland University College is making provision
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in a gradual but rational manner towards the fulfilment of such a necessity. The sum that has been spent on buildings and equipment at Christchurch has been mentioned as £30,000. I estimate that the equipment could not have cost more than £12,000. In addition I have gone very carefully into the cost of the minimum equipment for efficient teaching at a school of engineering, and I am convinced that £4,500 would be sufficient for such apparatus. As a matter of fact, an addition of £3,000 worth of apparatus to the equipment already possessed by the Auckland School of Mines would complete this minimum. I do not wish it to be understood that I am advancing this as an argument for the immediate provision of such a minimum at Auckland, but simply as my opinion, as an engineer who has had twenty-three years' experience in the engineering profession, that an exceedingly expensive equipment is not absolutely essential. 3. Mr. Wells.] Is it your experience that there is a distinct need for a school doing the work now being done by the School of Engineering in Auckland ?—lt is. We have proved from the numbers attending the school that there is a demand for the instruction of engineers who cannot go to Christchurch and who do not wish to go there. Possibly they have taken up a wrong policy, but the position is that generally they will not matriculate till they are about seventeen ; they have to study for four years at Christchurch in order to get their degree, and then before an engineer will consider them qualified they must serve for three years under a practical engineer. That brings them to the age of twenty-four, at the minimum, before they are qualified engineers. One plan which some of them will persist in following is to take their practical training and theory at the same time. They can then qualify in five years instead of seven, and can then earn a certain amount of salary at twenty-two instead of twenty-four. Nevertheless, I think they should be encouraged to take the degree. 4. Can the training these students are in search of be obtained anywhere else in Auckland ? —No. 5. Mr. Hogben.] Would you propose to include in your associateship in Auckland a course in civil engineering, and another course in mechanical engineering, and a course in electrical engineering ?— When we started we included all three, but I have come to the conclusion that for the present, at any rate, there is not very much demand for the associate course in mechanical engineering. Practically the whole of our students are studying civil or electrical—the bulk of them the civil course. 6. You propose to establish an associateship in civil and electrical engineering, especially civil ?— Yes. 7. What proportion of the subjects required in the degree for civil engineering would you take in the associateship ? —Neither of the special subjects, such as railway or borough engineering. I would treat it from the general engineering point of view, similarly to what is done in the London University. The number of students here does not justify specialization. 8. Would you take advanced surveying, including geodesy ? —Yes. 9. Building-construction and strength of materials ?—Yes. 10. Hydraulics ?—Yes. 11. Would you take hydraulics practically ?—As far as we are able with our apparatus. 12. Is not the installation of hydraulics apparatus rather costly ? —I do not think so. At other universities the hydraulics apparatus is the least expensive. 13. At Manchester, for instance ?—Manchester is a special kind of thing. They are in the middle of a vast industrial district, and they have plenty of money. A good many of the hydraulic experiments can be done with inexpensive apparatus, if you like to experiment with it rather than the more perfect form. You can get the same results. 14. Are the results reliable ? —Your experiments are taken with reliable instruments, therefore the results must be reliable. 15. Do you think you could have really good work in strength of material without expensive apparatus ? —The most expensive is the testing-machine, and there seems a favourable opportunity of getting that in the near future. 16. Do you not think that if it is done at all it should be done in the same style as for standard tests ?—lt is not absolutely necessary. Millions of tests have been done in the universities in the last twenty or thirty years. Taking the case of a forged bar, whether you turn that down to f in. or J in. diameter experimental results have proved that there is absolutely no difference between the results. j 17. What about granite ?—You simply use a block of smaller size. 18. Are the results the same ? —Absolutely the same, unless you get very small blocks. For instance, at Durham University they have only a 20-ton testing-machine. 19. You think you can teach as well with a 20-ton tester as with any other ?—You can teach the principles as well. 20. Do you think you can give all the practical work that is necessary for a further expenditure of about £3,000 ?—Yes. 1 21. You wish to take the work for the first two years for the engineering degree % —Students are already able to take the work for the first two years at any affiliated college. We are only asking for one extra year. Taking the subjects in the first Professional Examination, applied mechanics is the only one that I think any one could object to, because freehand mechanical drawing and descriptive geometry for miners have the same definition as for engineering, and applied mechanics is one laboratory we are efficient in. 'I think we have just as much apparatus as at Christchurch, but we have not the models they have for mechanics of machinery. That subject has been cut out of the examinations. 22. What about the cost of model engines that can be used for testing the different elements o| the steam-engine ? —-I have included in the £3,000 a sum of £800 for a 40 h.p. experimental steamengine and boiler,'with the'necessary'equipment of "pumps. My contention is that for any type of steam-engine, except the "steam turbine, the test of any] one engine is exactly similar to the test of any other. 23. You think'an" engine such"as"you for'that would be sufficient for an engineer to read his indicator diagrams and see what the different elements are ?—I believe that is the same size as they have at Christchurch.
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Harry Wallace examined on oath. (No. 25.) 1. The Chairman.} What is your position ? —I am art master at the Auckland Technical College. 2. And what are your qualifications ? —I hold an art master's diploma from the British Board of Education, now known as the Royal College of Art. In addition to that I hold a subgroup certificate for life work, having passed " excellent "in that examination. In connection with figure group I have a first in antique, first in antique from memory, first in anatomy, first in honours design, first in architecture, first in monochrome painting, first in still life, &c. My principal experience has been technical, but I have also been connected with teaching for many years, and have exhibited a number of times as a painter and etcher at the Royal Academy, London. 3. How long have you been in Auckland ?—A little more than eight years. 4. Will you state briefly your opinion with regard to art education ?—First I will deal with my views in regard to the teaching in elementary schools. I have had a good deal to do with work of that description. Ido not altogether agree with the changes made in connection with the teachers' certifi-. cates under the new regulation. I think too much is required in the way of geometry, particularly for girls. The colour work appears to be to some extent overlooked. I feel very strongly on this point. We have found in Auckland, and I found in the Old Country, where I was supervising classes in the pottery districts, that the introduction of colour work was of very great benefit to the drawing. Personally lam very sorry to see anything introduced that tends to discourage that side of the work. In addition to the interest brought about by the introduction of colour work there is the question of the development of the colour faculty. That does not seem to be taken as being of great account, but to my mind it is one of the most precious of our gifts if we understood it properly. With regard to teach-ing-certificates generally, I should say that a certificate on the line of the Kensington Art Class teachers' certificate is not quite the thing we need. I know that certificate very well. I hold it myself in addition to other qualifications, and I can say very distinctly that many people who hold that certificate, and have not gone further with their studies, just get a certain amount of executive power, and it seems to make no difference to their taste. The literature of the forward movement in art teaching shows that, particularly in America, they have given more attention to the aesthetic side of things. I think that has very considerable cultural value, and we regard it as a humanizing influence in education. I think the aims and objects of the drawing-lesson should be thoroughly understood, and I would suggest that a method paper be set in connection with the drawing examination for teachers. That is done, I believe, with some of the kindergarten work and brush drawing, but it does not follow through all the subjects. I understand that the Inspector-General has spoken of the desirableness of making life in the country more attractive. I have been asked on several occasions to judge the work in the home arts and industries exhibited at country agricultural shows, and I have seen not only good work done by the children in the schools, but also very praiseworthy work done by young people who have very limited opportunities, in the way of embroidery, stencilling, and pictorial work. I have seen the art faculty exercised in the arrangement of bouquets and other floral displays. I think that that kind of thing is worthy of encouragement, as it helps to stimulate social feeling in the country—helps to give the country people something to think about besides the humdrum work of their every-day life. It could be helped along if the cultural side of education were kept in view, as it is in some of the best American districts. As far as the drawing in elementary schools bears upon this, I say that if greater emphasis were placed upon the design side it would help that kind of thing forward very much. Together with simple talks on pictures and other elementary art matters it would lead to the formation of taste, particularly in the case of girls. It would affect their needlework, flower-culture, house-decoration, and dress. I do not wish to put before the Commission any high-falutin' ideas. My own ideas are on the simple side ; but the home influence in the country is one of the things that tend to keep the people there if it is of the right kind. I have spoken of the cultural side particularly as far as girls are concerned. The constructional work could still be retained for boys. I think that the art schools should exist chiefly to help students who are engaged in pursuits in which a certain amount of executive power is necessary. After the preparatory course I think the training should be purely vocational. Design should hold a prominent place, as it is so necessary to architects, decorators, sculptors, lithographic draughtsmen, process-workers, jewellers, and others. I also think that the historic side of art is a very important subject, and should receive particular attention in New Zealand, as we have so little material in the way of building, furniture, pottery, jewellery, &c, on which to form a standard of taste. Superficial pictorial work should be discouraged, but all would benefit by a course of drawing from nature, and provision should be made for those who require a knowledge of those principles which would guide them in making tasteful homes. WS 5. Mr. Davidson.] What is your opinion of the quality of the work done in drawing, particularly in'brush drawing, in the elementary schools of the Auckland District ? —lt varies in different schools according to the staff, but, taking it generally, I think it is recognized as holding a high place. 6. How does it compare with that of similar elementary schools in England ? —I think it is quite equal to the work in the English elementary schools. I have had a wide experience in that way. I was once invited to attend a special conference in London, through the chief Inspector of Art, on account of my connection with elementary art work. The district in which I worked in the potteries held a high place in art. 7. What is your opinion of the work done in the Technical School, particularly in regard to the draining of teachers ?—I think a great deal of good work has been done. I believe that in my time more lhan a thousand teachers have passed through the art classes, and all have had instruction in model and object drawing. They have also been taught in blackboard drawing with a view to illustrating their lessons, and they have done a certain amount of brush drawing and freehand drawing.
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8. Do you think that provision in Auckland for the training of teachers is adequate in these matters ? —We have been working under difficulties ever since I came to Auckland. I should like to -see things better so far as room and equipment are concerned. 9. Do you think that the primary, technical, and secondary education in this district should be controlled- by one body ?—lt would be better if it could be. 10. Mr. Kirk.] Are the pictures issued by the Department in primary schools the best kind of pictures for the purpose ? —I think they are excellent pictures, but I should suggest something further. They deal mostly with botanical matters, historic buildings, and so on. I think suitable pictures might be selected from reproductions|from the great galleries that would be likely to be interesting to the children—for instance, a fine picture with a historic setting, a typical building, or a typical costume, or the type of man represented in a picture, to say nothing of the particular interest of the portrait. I think that might be made exceedingly interesting to the children, and it would help to teach things outside the picture —the historic bearing, for instance ; and there are other phases of the subject that might be dealt with in the same way by selections of suitable pictures. 11. Mr. Wells.] How much of your time is spent in the primary schools ?—Five mornings in the week. 12. How much of the balance of your time is given to the training of teachers in art work ?—1 have classes on Monday, Wednesday, and Friday nights. I also have the teachers' class in the Training College. 13. Do you know if any of this work was done before you arrived ?—No attempt was ever made to supervise the work of the children or to train the teachers. \ \ 14. Do you know of any duplication of your work here ? —I do not think there is any overlapping except in the case of the life class. There is another art institution in the city, but I think our work is carried on on technical lines. We have, for instance, seven or eight young architects attending our classes, besides one or two stonemasons and one or two architectural masons who are learning to carve, lettering, and ornamental work. We have painters and decorators to whom we are giving a course of design in lettering, and giving them some information in colour work. We hope that in the time to come they will be able to act as advisers to their clients. You may ask how we deal with all these trades. To return to my qualifications, I may state that I earned my living for several years as a lithographic artist, and when I was in the potteries I was art director to a firm there for seven years, during which time I was engaged in modelling. I also taught copperplate etching under the Staffordshire County Council for four years. In addition to that I spent a year designing lace curtains in Nottingham. This experience gives one a wide outlook in design generally, and enables one to adapt design to other requirements. 15. Do you find that there is a distinct demand from you for that kind of work— i.e., drawing from the living model ? —That is so. But you cannot take higher design work without training in the higher draughtsmanship. I cannot train a lithographic artist, for instance, to make a design in which the figure plays a conspicuous part unless he has some knowledge of anatomy. Consequently, if we have no chance of teaching the figure our technical work is at a disadvantage. 16. Mr. Pirani.] What is your salary ?—£325 a year. 17. How many hours do you average in the week I—l1 —I am actually teaching a little over thirty hours, but that leaves no time for preparation. lam working about five or six hours more than an elementary-school teacher. I have a good deal of travelling to do in connection with my visits, and that travelling-time is not counted. 18. Mr. Hogben.] Reproductions of historic pictures are in the Department's programme ?— Coloured pictures are more attractive, but owing to the state of the light in New Zealand—probably because it is more actinic—in the three-colour process pictures, which are the best reproduction, the red always disappears, and this upsets the colour values. 19. With regard to the programme for the teacher's certificate, have not the drawing subjects been rearranged ?—Yes. 20. Was brush drawing formerly compulsory for teachers ? —lt was not, but there is no brushdrawing examination at present, according to the new regulations. 21. Is not the drawing free drawing with pencil or brush ?—The brush is used in that way, but anybody well acquainted with the technical peculiarities of the pencil and the brush will find that the brush expresses certain forms more freely and more beautifully than any other instrument, whereas the pencil has its own special domain. If you ask any one to execute with the brush what would be better expressed with the pencil you would land him in difficulties. That matter should be cleared up in the regulations. 22. You think, then, that the regulation as it stands might mean that some question would be set to be done with the brush ?—I think it would be generally read that way. 23. In the old syllabus for brush drawing the word " colour " was not mentioned. Would it be a good thing to make it clear that training of the colour-sense as well as the form was intended ?—The only item that bore on the subject was the statement that marks would be given for taste in colour. I have examined in that subject on several occasions. I did not introduce that, but I thoroughly agree with it. 24. Was that in the old syllabus ?—lt was on the examination-paper. 25. Then you think the point should be made quite clear in the new syllabus ?—I will think the matter over and place my views before you in writing. Gerald Loftus Peacocke examined on oath. (No. 26.) 1. The Chairman.] What is your position ? —I am a member of the Council of the Auckland University College, and Acting-Chairman.
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2. Will you state the matters you desire to bring before the Commission ?—My object in appearing is to emphasize the evidence given by Mr. Lamb on the subject of the engineering classes. The general qiiestion I should like to refer to is that of overlapping as between one University college and another, and also between the Technical College and the University. The School of Mining Engineering was started here because it was recognized that this was the greatest centre of gold-mining in New Zealand, besides which there is a considerable amount of coal-mining going on, so that it was of the Dominion where there was most need for this kind of education. It was found not apparently a public demand for university teaching in mining engineering. The consequence was that we found ourselves possessed of an equipment, both in the teaching staff and the apparatus, of which we could not make full use. Part of it was engineering equipment, which was practically the same as the equipment that would be required for, at.any rate, part of the course in engineering pure and simple. We therefore thought that in order to make use of the money that had already been spent we should carry on engineering classes —practically up to what would amount to the work of the first two years of the degree course. As much as anything else the object was to avoid wasting the efforts we had made in establishing the School of Mining Engineering. We held the mining part in abeyance, but it was always open to be taken up again if the people of the goldfield and other places should begin to see the advantages of such education in engineering as they would acquire by taking the degree. I think one of the reasons which militated against the school being really utilized by young people was the fact that there are so-called schools of mines at the Thames, Waihi, and Coromandel —schools which take the students only through the elementary part of mining work, which only fits them to become shift bosses and battery-managers, and that sort of thing, but which does not pretend to equip them with the education necessary for a real mining engineer. However, for the present they seem to be satisfied with this elementary part of their education, and do not realize as yet the value of the fuller course. That realization may come when we get a larger population. In the meantime, in order to utilize as far as possible the equipment and teaching staff we had, we thought we would go on with the engineering classes. I understand that Canterbury College considered that this was an invasion of their preserve to a certain extent, and was also contrary to the plan which had been tacitly accepted of specializing in certain subjects in certain colleges. I confess that some years ago, when the late Mr. Seddon gave special grants for specialization, I thought there was a good deal in the idea, but I have come to see that in this country it does not work out as we hoped. It is evidently necessary, in order to give our young people an opportunity of taking the higher courses of education in applied science, that they should be able to get it where they live. I think it is a mistake to encourage the idea of watertight compartments in our college system. A student might just as well, if he has to leave his home, go to Melbourne or Sydney, or England, or America, as go to Christchurch or Dunedin. The only additional cost is that of the longer journey. The cost of his living is the same wherever he goes. As a matter of fact, we find that if students leave Auckland at all they go further afield—to Australia, or America, or England, where they can get larger opportunities. There remains a considerable number of students who, because they cannot get the full course near their home, do not take it up at all, and remain always only halfeducated men in their particular line. Therefore we must recognize that the College will have, as the demand arises, to take up these various subjects. Engineering is a subject in which I believe we shall have a large number of students in Auckland. I believe that there are thirty-two students at present at work upon it in our College. I quite agree with Mr. Lamb that we might very well carry them on for the first two years, and so prepare them to go on for their full course at Christchurch until the Auckland College is sufficiently equipped to carry them right through the degree course. That, I understand, would necessitate only a comparatively small increase in the outlay for equipment— something like £3,000, he tells me, would carry a student on to the full degree course. At the same time, I am not supposing that we can do that at once, but I think we should keep the students together in the engineering classes, and give them an associateship for a really advanced course in engineering—not the whole course, but something a great deal more than could be given at the Technical College. That, at any rate, will encourage engineering study, and will do good, and later on the day may come when we may give them the whole course. Any day a mining engineering school may become a public demand, and then we shall be ready to supply that special education in engineering, as originally taken up. With regard to the Technical College, it seems to me that if it gave advanced teaching such as we give now in those classes it would be going outside its proper function. lam simply expressing my individual opinion when I say that there is a tendency in the Auckland Technical School to go outside its province as an institution for purely technical teaching. It seems to me that the instruction that a technical school should give should be what a young man or a girl would get as an apprentice in a properly equipped commercial workshop in the particular trade for which the school gives education. Of course, more of the scientific principle of the trade would be taught than they could get in any commercial workshop, but at the same time it should be more of a trades school than a theoretical scientific school. If the Technical College goes beyond that I think it is trenching upon university work. It appears to me there is a tendency in the Technical College to multiply classes in fancy subjects which become nothing more than capitation-earning classes, and very often are not wanted. These classes are largely made up of children from the primary schools, who never intend to go in for an occupation where this technical work will come in. These classes earn capitation, the result being that technical education is costing more than it ought to cost in proportion to the practically valuable work it is doing. Ido not mean to say that it is not doing valuable work, but I fear that many of the pupils who attend are not likely ever to give a return to the State for the money spent upon them, because this kind of education is more or less forced upon them, and is the kind of thing they do not want. This is my personal
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opinion, but I know it is shared by many educational authorities in Auckland, and I think the Commission might consider with advantage how far technical education in New Zealand is going outside its proper functions. There must be a certain amount of overlapping between educational institutions—that is to say, they must impinge a little upon each other in order to avoid gaps —but there should be as little as possible. Coming back to the question of the Engineering School, I would say that we have no idea of trenching upon the preserves of any other University college. We do not desire to injure in any way the excellent Engineering School at Canterbury College, but rather to prepare students to go there, but under an arrangement under which they would spend only half the time they do now away from their homes. 3. Mr. Hogben.] When you say that the classes at the Technical College are made up of children from the primary schools, do you mean children now on the rolls of the primary schools ? —I understand that children come from the primary schools for certain hours of the day to attend the technical classes. 4. Is it not the manual-instruction classes ? —lt may be. 1 know they attend the school. Parents have said to me that they looked upon their attendance as waste of time, as their fine of life was not likely to be connected with the subjects in which they were being taught. 5. You did not know that the woodwork classes were carried on for the sake of their general education ?—I thought that sort of thing was done at many of the schools themselves. 6. Do you know that on the roll of the technical classes you cannot include children who are on the roll of a primary or secondary school ?—No. Frank Heaton examined on oath. (No. 27.) 1. The Chairman.] What are your position and educational qualifications? —I am a Bachelor of Arts and Bachelor of Science of London University, with Honours in the B.Sc. in Physics and Chemistry; also a Master of Arts of Cambridge University, with Honours, and a Senior Science Scholar of Emmanuel College. 2. What was your experience before coming to New Zealand? I was an assistant master in a Board primary school, then senior English master in a grammar school, and at the same time was head of the commercial department in a technical school. 1 went from there to Cambridge, and at the end of my course there was Lecturer in Physics and Chemistry at Emmanuel College, and Director of Studies in Physics and Chemistry. I was tutor in physics in connection with London University and the University Correspondence College. I have been connected with the Auckland Grammar School. 3. What are the subjects that you wish to bring before the Commission? —In the first place I want to emphasize one or two points in Mr. Mahon's evidence. One thing that he mentioned was the cost of education in England, which he gave as £15 per head, but he had not with him his authority for the statement. He has given me the report of the Consultative Committee on Higher Elementary Schools, published in 1906, in which it is shown that the gross cost of maintenance of the higher elementary schools and secondary schools, exclusive of sinking fund and interest on capital expenditure, was estimated by different witnesses at from £12, according to Mr. Lloyd, an Inspector, to £15 according to Dr. Garnett. Dr. Scott gave the amount at £14 4s. A later authority than this is that of the West Riding of Yorkshire County Council. In their instructions to authorities who were instituting secondary schools they issued suggestions which state that " the cost of maintenance, apart from establishment charges, may be put at from £14 to £16 per pupil per annum, this estimate also slightly decreasing as the number of pupils increases. The proportion of teachers to the number of pupils in the school ought to be at least as 1 is to 20." Those are the suggestions they enforce. If the local authority cannot come up to that standard they refuse their sanction, and will not give additional grants. Revenue is obtained in various ways—partly from Government grants, partly from endowments, partly from County Councils, and the rest has to come from local rates. To give some idea of what the local rating means I can only quote the case of the Borough of Keighley, West Riding, of which I happen to know Their local rate at the present time is 4d. in the pound on the annual value, for secondary education only. Primary education runs up to about lOd. It was lOd. some years ago, when I was at Home. The Keighley- authorities were lately extending their institution, and, according to a report which I have lately received-,' they expected that when the extension was completed the rate for secondary education, which includes technical, would be 6d. in the pound. I understand that a question has also been raised as to the staff of the Wyggeston School, in which I was at one time a master. In my time the teachers numbered one to every twenty or twenty-one scholars. Since then there has been an increase, and there is now a class over twenty-five, but the other classes are much smaller. A question was raised as to whether the Wyggeston School was well endowed. So far as I know it is not. It used to be estimated that the total endowments were less than sufficient to pay the salary of the headmaster, about £1,000. I know that the school has the reputation of being heavily endowed, but in actual fact it is not so. In fact, when the Government brought pressure to bear to compel fulfilment of the regulations it became necessary for the County Council to take over the school. If has now ceased to be a privately endowed school, and is under the Leicester municipal authorities. A former colleague of mine, who is now headmaster of the Huddersfield Municipal Secondary School, has sent me particulars of the number of boys in the different classes. There is a preparatory division, and the school goes up to Form V, which corresponds with Form VI in the Auckland Grammar School. The numbers he gives are— Eighteen in the preparatory class; thirty-four in Form I; thirty-five in Form II —-I gather that these two forms comprise boys of the same year, but in- one form a little more advanced than the other; twenty in Form III; twenty in Form IV; and eleven in Form V. My friend added, " I am sending one of the old time-schedules. They [the Government] would not allow such large
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forms now as 1 and II " —referring to the forms in which the numbers are thirty-four and thirtyfive, which was about the strength of our lowest form in the secondary schools when I was in Leicester. Another point that was not touched upon by Mr. Mahon was that of the salaries of the lady teachers in New Zealand secondary schools. They are in a worse position than our own. One lady, after thirty years' service, is receiving £120 a year; another, after twenty years' service, £200; another, after sixteen years, £185. Other salaries are lower than that, going down to £150. With the exception of the first-mentioned, they hold the degree of M.A. of New Zealand University. One grievance of the lady teachers is that there does not seem to be any * rational way of regulating promotions. One lady left the service at a salary of £150 a year after six years' service, and was immediately replaced by another mistress fresh from the University, with no teaching experience and no better degree, at £175. It does not tend to good feeling on the part of a staff when they know that they are working for less salaries, for instance, than those paid in the Normal School. The mistress there is getting £250, and the kindergarten mistress about the same. It does not seem to us that there ought to be that difference. One would think that the senior mistress in a secondary school ought to get at least the same salary as the mistress of the kindergarten school. I feel that the ladies are worse treated than the men. I would like to emphasize the point as to the size of the classes. I believe that that is the secret of any lack of efficiency there is in the present system. There are many little points that one would like to see remedied, but when you get down to bed-rock nearly all of them are explained by the fact that the classes are too large. To remedy that, I know, means increased expenditure. Ido not see how the Government can hope to get things done more cheaply here than in England or Germany. That they get value for the expenditure I feel sure, after comparing the corresponding classes of boys. I teach exactly the same average number here as in Leicester, and I find that in a given time we covered approximately 50 per cent, more ground there than we do here, because our classes are so much larger and we take about three hours to do what we used to do at Home in two. The effect is that the boys do not cover the same amount of ground. The final effect is that the boys at Home, when leaving the school, are very much further advanced than the boys here. I have heard it suggested that that is due to specialization, but that is not so. There are classical schools at which they do specialize, but in the ordinary modern schools the boys come from the primary schools at an early age. Here, practically no boy comes till he is thirteen or fourteen. When I was leaving England six years ago they were discussing the question of giving no scholarship to any boy over twelve. That shows that the boys in England get on faster in the primary schools. One possible explanation is that at Home kindergarten schools are universal. The result is that the children begin their education at the age of three instead of five. Teachers say that there is an enormous difference between a child of five who has come even from the best home and the child who has come from a kindergarten. The syllabus at Home is almost the same as the syllabus here, but at Home boys take University scholarships between the ages of sixteen and seventeen. I think the same thing holds good in the primary schools, although I have not been in the primary schools at all. My explanation may be wrong. When I came here the physicalmeasurements course was almost identical with the course I had been teaching at Home, and no change has been made in the work I do. When I came I found the boys here covered a certain amount of ground in one term in twenty-four hours, and as the years have gone by the time required to cover that particular ground has gone up from twenty-four to forty-eight hours. They are the same boys, but there has been some change which I cannot account for, except it may be that possibly as the result of the introduction of the new syllabus in the primary schools, without making the corresponding changes necessary, the children have fallen behind because the teachers cannot get the time to teach them in the modern way. This year I have been astonished at the amount of time required to cover the same ground. The only other thing I wish to refer to is the teaching of science and kindred subjects in secondary schools, assuming, of course, that we could have this change of classes. I think it is possible to make an improvement in this matter. Ido not think that at the present time science and the kindred subjects hold the position in the curriculum that they ought to do. We could divide the boys when they come into the school into two classes— those who will go to the university and those who will not. As to those who go on to the university, obviously their work must be governed by the science syllabus of the university. Those who take matriculation may not be influenced in the same way. Seeing that to gain a sholarship you have not to gain it in one subject, but in two, obviously the best thing for a boy who is not going to have a scholarship before him is to make him earn as many marks as you can. In that case, if one subject is undermarked and another subject is well marked, obviously the authorities will encourage a boy to take the highest marking. I think Latin and mathematics have 1,500 marks assigned to them, which is the highest. For science you can get 1,200 marks by taking two subjects; and for English 1,000, and French, I think, 1,000 marks. The point is that not only is science made subsidiary, but in order to cover the syllabus you have to put in an amount of time out of all proportion to the marks that can be gained. In fact, the ground cannot be properly covered. It would not be fair to take it out of the school-work. The method I adopt is, instead of taking two sciences, to teach a part of two. That means a pupil is handicapped before he goes in. The tendency, therefore, is to encourage schools where they have no very strong opinions to substitute other subjects. lam not referring to our school, because that is not the case. We substitute the maximum : we take two sciences in the lower forms when we need only take one. But the tendency in other schools is to take the subjects which will pay better, and it produces a one-sided curriculum which is almost entirely literary. Out of twenty-five hours in the week in our school fifteen or sixteen are devoted to literary subjects—classics, English and modern languages, and so on, and I think there are only about ten given to mathematics and science. Again, mathematics, as a result of the syllabus, is more or less a theoretical subject, so that you only get one-fifth of the time devoted to what can be called real scientific practical modern work. I am not depreciating
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classics, because I know that classics can produce some marvellous results. I say a classical training is an excellent one, but you have to do it properly. Those boys who do classics properly .-start at the age of eight or ten years at the outside. They do Latin and Greek compulsorily, and they study with it the literature of these languages. The result is that they know some classics when they are done. The question is whether it is worth while for the University of New Zealand to encourage.,the taking-up of Latin and literary subjects wffien you are starting with boys at the age of thirteen or fourteen and know that they w 7 ill finish at the age of twenty-two. That is where I doubt,the wisdom of the practice. I think, at the same time, science as we teach it yet is not as it ought to be. It should be associated with workshops. There should be in every school, along with the science, practical workshop practice, not devoted to teaching to draw or anything of the kind, but merely to developing the powers of the boys. Ido not think there is anything like it. If you correlate mathematics and science with the workshop with sufficient literary subjects I believe you will get the best results. 4. Mr. Davidson.] In England does the State provide free secondary education? —No. They take a very strong stand on that, and will not give Government grants to any school that does not charge a fee. They mention as the minimum fee that ought to be charged £3 per year. At the same time, to meet the case of poor people it is within the powers of the governing body to give a number of bursaries providing free education and the necessary maintenance allowances, providing that these do not reach above a certain proportion of the whole. 5. Then, the pupils taught by you were not drawn from the ordinary Board school?— Yes, they were —at least, the ones I happen to be basing my statements on were. 6. And these pupils were the very best from the primary- schools? —Yes. 7. Here you will have boys who have simply- obtained free places?— Yes. 8. Or passed the proficiency examination? —Yes. 9. So it is scarcely fair to compare the average boy taught by you here with the boys taught by you in England? —I am not doing that. You see, the class of boys that comes more immediately under me is a class composed two-thirds of National Scholarship holders and Education Board scholars. I have carefully- left out of my reckoning the other boys. 10. Do you think that the course in physical measurements laid down in the primary-school syllabus should be taught to the upper standards in our primary schools?—l should hardly care to express an opinion on that. 11. Are you aware that the work laid down in elementary physical measurements in the present primary-school syllabus is not done in the primary schools in Auckland ? —lt does not concern me at all. 12. If that work were done in the upper standards of the primary schools in Auckland as it is done in these standards in other districts in New Zealand, do you think that would have a marked effect on the preparation of boys for your work? —I should not like to see it done, because I think there is no subject so difficult to teach as science, and unless you get experts in the primary schools I do not think the work would be well done. I would rather receive boys who know nothing than boys who had done some work in a primary school. 13. You say that the secret of any lack of efficiency in the secondary schools is attributable to the fact that the classes are too large? —Yes. 14. Do you think if the secondary schools were under the same control as the primary schools that would lead to a better co-ordination of work and to a better staffing probably of the secondary schools? —It is not necessary. It may lead to it. I think some arrangement between the teachers, too, and these bodies might bring that about without having to make a change. 15. Do you not think we are more likely to have a uniform scale of salaries and a high rate of salary if primary, secondary, and technical education were under the one governing body?— From the point of view of salaries, yes; but I was talking of the efficiency of the teacher. 16. Mr. Kirk.] Can you give us an idea of the size of the classes in the primary schools in the Old Country?— When I left about six years ago the average size was about fifty. Since that time the Department has stepped in and has insisted that the classes shall not be more than forty. To do this they have to face an expenditure of something like £30,000,000 in the next five years. 17. Do you think if that system were introduced here it would really tend to greater efficiency? —I do not think there can be any doubt about it. I suppose you will have to increase the number of schools or increase the size of the,,buildings. It brings you up against another question altogether. I think there is a certain minimum size which might with advantage almost be the maximum size. As soon as you come up to a certain size you have reached a maximum of efficiency, and I do not think it pays from the point of view of efficiency to increase it. I would say you could with advantage diminish schools of from 600 to 1,000; but it does not matter when you come to schools of ten or twenty, because you cannot get efficiency there. 18. Is it fair to compare a young country like New Zealand with an old settled country like England?—No; but I was trying to give you the ideal, and the question was, are we getting value for the money? My opinion is largely this: I think we made a mistake at the beginning in trying to take up the free education that we have done. It seems to me rather like a man starting business with too little capital. Now, the question is, what are we going to do? Will you retrench this education or raise some more money and carry it on ? I think that, while you are getting as much value for the money spent as you can get, you are not getting as much value as you would if you doubled the amount of money spent. I think you would then get ten times the value that you do now. 19. What are the sizes of the classes at Eton? —They are pretty big, but there is no comparison. The aim of the education authorities here is not at all the aim of the Eton authorities. They get education at Eton outside the class-rooms; they look on the inside work as comparatively unimportant. These remarks would apply to all the large English schools. There is the same difference as between an Oxford and Cambridge B.A. degree and a New Zealand degree.
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20. You speak about children entering school at an earlier age : what have you to say in regard to the statement of doctors that children should not attend school until they reach the age of eight years?—lt depends on the school. I have never heard any doctor oppose a kindergarten. The children are better there than at home :itis an ideal home. 21. You believe in children entering kindergarten schools?— Certainly. 22. At what age do you think they should leave the kindergarten for the primary school?— The primary at Home does not differ very greatly from the kindergarten—it is merely a changed kindergarten, so they really do not leave it so far as their studies go, but they leave it so far as the Government classification is concerned at the age of five. 23. So that at Home children enter upon our primary-school system at the age of five?— Yes. 24. Has that been pernicious or otherwise here or at Home? —The result of going at the age of three is that they have been, so to speak, in an ideal home where their faculties have been developed, so that so far as development goes they are really seven years of age when they enter the primary school at five years of age. 25. Has it had any detrimental effect on the health of the children? —Very much to the contrary. The classes are small—only six to twelve—and the rooms are beautiful and as comfortable as a nursery. 26. Mr. Wells.] You made a comparison between the salaries paid to some lady teachers at the Grammar School and the salaries paid to teachers at the Normal School: I suppose you knowthat the teachers at the Normal School are called upon to do very special work in assisting to train young teachers?—l did not wish to convey the idea that I was depreciating the teaching at the Normal School. 27. Do you not think the work of training people who are going to teach numbers of children in their time is specially important?— Yes, but not more specially important than the work of a senior lady teacher at the Grammar School. I should look upon them as experts. 28. And they should be paid as experts?— Certainly. 29. Do I understand you would strike out all science teaching from the primary schools?— All systematic science work. 30. You know a good many pupils go to work after leaving the primary schools and do not go to a secondary school? —Yes. 31. Do you not think it is an advantage that they should have a beginning, as it were, in scientific work?—l would replace that by object-lessons. 32. Scientific method would be needed in object-teaching?— Yes, in a way, but it is not quite the same. 33. Do you know that in some of the large town schools the numbers in the Fifth and Sixth Standards run up to sixty and seventy?—l understand they go higher still. 34. Do you not think that fact would account for a great deal? —I said I thought it was the cause. 35. In regard to the slackness you have noticed in this year's boys: I suppose you find, as most teachers find, that there are fat and lean years in regard to ability?— Yes, but the point that struck me was the gradual change. 36. Can you express any opinion as to the work done in English and arithmetic by the boys who come to you ?—Five or six years ago I should have said the arithmetic was good, but since then it seems to me it is not so good. The same falling-off has occurred in writing and character of composition, and so on. 37. Mr. Hogben.] Is it not true that in the last five years you have raised the standard you require of the efficiency of the experiments ? —No, f do not think it is. 38. Are you not requiring in the class a higher standard of accomplishment in the experiments before you pass it now? —I should think it was the opposite. 39. Did you not go a little carefully at first because you had different boys to deal with, and therefore you did not require too severe a test? —I do not think so. 40. Are you aware that five or six years ago. the only boys admitted to free places at Auckland were boys who had passed the Department's examination for free places?—Of course, 1 came here at that time, and only took the boys as I found them. 41. Now you take all the proficiency boys? —Yes; but my argument is based on the same class of boys, as I have already pointed out. 42. You seem to think there ought to be no science taught in primary schools : by that I suppose you mean the organized body of knowledge that is worthy of being called a separate science? —Yes, I ought to have called it a science course. 43. Do you not think if physical measurements were taught in the upper standards of the primary schools in the very simplest form it would help the arithmetic, and would help you afterwards with your science work? —If you take mensuration as the first part of physical measurements I might be tempted to agree. 44. Do you not think it is a good thing to keep the observation of the children trained from the earliest years? —I think it is. 45. The Chairman.] I understand you to emphasize the value of the kindergarten as the first step in the education ladder ?—Yes. 46. And that the general tendency is to take a child from four to six years and keep him in the kindergarten course ?—Three to five years. 47. Do you know as a fact that the result of kindergarten instruction is to allow a child on passing through the primary course to forge ahead considerably of ordinary pupils?—l do not know that personally, but that is what friends have told me, Ido not think there is much doubt about it.
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Edward Corrigill Banks examined on oath. (No. 28.) 1. The Chairman.] What are you? —I have been a farmer at Matamata for the last eight years. I have been Chairman of the Matamata School Committee for the last six years, and before that I was in the Head Office of the Education Department. I have been a member of the Education Board one year. I wish to speak in regard to the division of districts, the school syllabus, teachers' training, and country schools. With regard to the division of the education district and the districts of the Dominion as a whole, I think that three of the districts in the South Island could be done away with, because they are too_ small. I refer to Marlborough, Grey, and Westland. Each of these districts is only about as big as one of the largest schools. I think that the Auckland District is too big .altogether, and I think it should be divided at Mercer. At the present time on the other side of Mercer we have three members of the Board—two living at Hamilton, and myself, half-way between Mercer and Rotorua. There is no member on the goldfields, at Bay of Plenty, in the King-country, or at Raglan. These districts might just as well be controlled from Wellington as from Auckland. My idea is to divide the Auckland District at Mercer. It would then have something like 26,000 or 28,000 children, and would still be the largest district in New 7 Zealand. The South Auckland District would then have something like 12,000 or 14,000 children, and would be about the fifth-largest education district in New Zealand; and instead of the three men living in that district we should have nine members, representing Opotiki, Tauranga, Waihi, Thames, Cambridge, Rotorua, Raglan, Taumarunui, and Te Kuiti. The headquarters would be at Hamilton. With regard to the school syllabus, speaking as a farmer, I simply wish to refer to the young fellows who come to me. I am. a farmer in a big way. Young men come to work on the farm who have been through the Sixth Standard, and it is remarkable to me the ignorance these young men display. They have no practical knowledge. They cannot estimate the acreage of a field or tell me how many gallons of water there is in a tank. This is an agricultural country, and it is becoming more so every year, and we have to form our syllabus so as to meet that fact. If I ask a young fellow anything about plant-germination he knows nothing about it, I certainly think our pupils should know something about the history of New Zealand, and they should certainly know something about the geography of New Zealand, and especially the physical geography. In regard to teachers' training, I brought up the following remit at the Farmers' Conference at Auckland : " That the Government be asked to arrange that all male students attending teachers' training colleges have six months' education on a Government farm." In support of this remit I said : During the thirteen years that Mr. Hogben has been Inspector-General of Schools he has made an honest attempt to make our education system more practical, and in this he has been backed up by Mr. Seddon and other Ministers of the day, and we are now, in addition to having increased the salaries of teachers, paying away some £100,000 a year for manual and technical instruction in public and high schools more than we were thirteen years ago. This is a very large expenditure, and though there are.some results, yet they are not what they ought to be in comparison with the amount of money spent. The reason that there are such poor results is the conservatism of the older teachers. When they were in their teens they were taught to teach everything from the book, and the majority of them cannot tear themselves away- from the old methods and make their teaching more interesting and effective by teaching the children plant-life in the school-garden, animal physiology with the cow and the horse in front of the class, and practical arithmetic by giving the boy rule and measure and making him find out for himself by actual measurement and calculation the amount of water the school tank will hold or the area of a three-sided portion of the playground. The older a teacher is the harder it is for him to assimilate this newer and better method of education, and I think that it would be better if, instead of spending money on him, the young teacher were taken in hand when he is in his teens and given six months' practical education on a Government farm. It may be said that a Government farm is too expensive a place for a man to receive his education on, but a gradual decrease has been brought about of late years under the management of Mr. Clifton, Mr. Dry 7 sdale, and others, and I was pleased the other day to see from a statement of the Hon. Thomas Mackenzie that the Government farms are now paying their way. At Ruakura a large building was finished a year ago for the accommodation of students, and it has not yet been occupied. At Weraroa the Government is proceeding to erect accommodation, and at Lincoln there is the Agricultural College. This institution has now been at work some- forty years, and has always been fortunate in its directors and teachers, but the results have not been as great as they should have been, the reason being that the students are mostly rich men's sons, and rich men's sons, as a class, are lazy. It would be far better for the Lincoln Agricultural College if half the College were reserved for the students at present attending our teachers' training colleges. The teacher student, knowing that he has to work for a living, will take keen interest in the work of the College, and will assimilate to the full the practical lectures given by the masters in botany, mechanics, veterinary surgery, general farm work, &c, and when he leaves the institution will be equipped for the rest of his life for the teaching of our children in the public schools in a practical way. I may say that in Australia the Government is already doing this good work at Hawkesbury College, and several men from that College have received appointments in the southern production districts of NewZealand as teachers of agriculture at salaries of from £300 to £400 a year. This being the case, I think that it is high time we proceeded on the same lines in New Zealand as is done in the Hawkesbury College in Australia. If our teachers are educated on the lines indicated, there is reason to hope that our sons who will be the farmers of the future will receive such an education that they will make better farmers than ourselves, and this should be the hope of every father. With regard to small schools for country- districts, when I became a member of the Board I found that it was the general practice to wait till there were more than twenty children of school age
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in a district, and then apply for some £300 for the building of a school. I thought that that was rather rough upon districts where there were ten or fifteen children without education, and Hbrought the matter before the Board. We resolved that with respect to districts where there were more than ten children we would apply for a smaller grant. In one or two instances we have applied for £70 or £80 for what we call a " shelter-shed " school. That system is not '-yet well known, and the people in the backblocks are still being asked to put up their own schools. When I came through Kaimai, near Whangarei, the other day, I found that the settlers in the district, mostly poor men, had subscribed £17 for the building of a school, which is as much to them as many hundreds of pounds amongst business men. That should not be allowed —we should not take advantage of the willing men in the country. I consider that wherever there are more than ten children in a district without education the Department should give the Board £100 to do their best with in that district. 2. Mr. Pirani.] Do you think it would conduce to better education if one Board controlled the primary, secondary, and technical education in the wffiole district? —I do not know. The personnel of the Boards is not good enough for that. If you had better-educated men on the Boards they could do it. 3. Do you not think the personnel would improve if the responsibility were greater?— Probably it would. 4. Would you favour the election of the Boards on the parliamentary franchise? —No. f would leave it to the School Committees. If it could be done I would let the teachers have a say too. 5. Do you know of any other instance where those who are in the position of employers are appointed to that position by the employees?—l cannot think of any. 6. Mr. Wells?] Can you say how many of the Grade 10 schools of 600 and over there would be in the pi >posed South Auckland District? —Not offhand, but there would probably be seventeen out of the fifty biggest schools. The district would include large and growing towns like Hamilton, Te Kuiti, and Cambridge, and there are big schools at the Thames, Rotorua, Tauranga, and Opotiki. 7. Have you had much complaint from the out-districts? —I have heard a great deal of complaint from the King-country and the Bay of Plenty district. Those districts have no representation, and the Board is of no use to them. 8. Are not the men of whom you have spoken grown up?— Twenty years of age, a lot of them. 9. Men who probably left school at fourteen, and have never done anything in the way of study since?—No, and they have forgotten all their book-knowledge. 10. Do you not think there is a shocking w 7 aste in boys leaving school at fourteen and dropping their education at that stage?— They should at least go on in the primary schools till they are fifteen, and get a better grounding, especially in practical arithmetic, plant-life, and animal-life. 11. Could not that be done in continuation schools? —If a man or a boy- does eight hours' w 7 ork in the country he is not very keen for evening study. 12. Could they not do it in the afternoon? —It would be a very good thing. 13. From your knowledge of the work of the Department and your experience as a farmer, can you offer any suggestion as to the way in which w 7 e could get greater economy or greater efficiency in the system?— Not beyond the suggestion I have thrown out as to grants for small country schools. 14. Mr. Kirk.] I think Mr. Hogben, in one of his reports, has recommended the formation of classes in the country for young men, where they would have an opportunity- of reading up special subjects. Has any attempt been made in your district to form such classes? —No. It would be a good thing to have them. If veterinary surgeons could come along, say, once a week, to instruct young farmers it would be a splendid thing. 15. Do you know that the Government either now send round, or propose to send round, Instructors to the farmers in certain agricultural branches? Would not that largely meet the case? —It will help to meet the case;, but where you want to begin is at the student in his teens. You want to teach him more about agriculture. We are importing men from the college in Australia. Why is that kind of work not done at Lincoln College? 16. Do you not think that a knowledge of the history of our own Empire, and the history of the great men of the world, would tend to make our agriculturists better citizens? —It would be very w 7 ell in a school reader, but it should not take precedence of a knowledge of plant-life and animal physiology, which they have to deal with every day. It is all very w 7 ell for recreation. I would like to see our boys know more about Captain Cook and Sir George Grey than of such matters as William the Conqueror. I would sooner see our own history taught than English history. 1.7. Do you not think that the agriculturists, who will have a large representation in Parliament, could exercise their political powers more effectively if they knew something of Roman history?—lt is of no practical use to them. Ninety-nine per cent, of them are not going to Parliament. 18. Then, your opinion is that history does not stand high as a factor in education? —I like it for recreation, but there is not much time for it in the public schools. If we teach historyit should be about New Zealand. 19. Do you then, as an agriculturist, stand for a purely utilitarian system? Do you think the purely utilitarian man will make the best citizen? —I would not be'so emphatic as that. What I have mentioned should be compulsory subjects in the syllabus, and history and the geography of other countries should be only optional. I would make the history and "geography of New 7 Zealand compulsory. ' *
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20. In view of the pushing-on of the railway-line on the east coast, from Gisborne to Tauranga, did you, when thinking of the cutting-up of the Auckland District, look ahead to the time when perhaps Gisborne might be the centre having charge of the Tauranga, Opotiki, and east coast districts? —I have not thought of that. Under the present railway policy it will take thirty years to complete that line. It ought to be done in ten. I think there is a good deal in what'you suggest, If the railway were constructed in a reasonable way it would be a very good thing to have the Bay of Plenty and Gisborne in the one education district. 21. Mr. Davidson.] Are you in favour of the present method of appointing teachers in this district?—l am. 22. If the unnecessary small schools in districts where the roads are good were centralized, would you favour the spending of money in such districts? —At Matamata we tried to get the T'urangamoana people to send their children by a good road to the Mangawhero School, but some of the people would not have it. The erection of a school in a district increases the value of the land in the district, and the man who is milking wants his boy both morning and evening. The people in such districts will not have centralization. 23. If they- could be educated up to seeing that they would have increased efficiency if the unnecessary schools were closed, would you be in favour of spending the money so saved in the direction of helping the people in the backblocks? —I would. 24. Mr. Pirani.] Do you know that the School Journal teaches exactly what you say ought to be taught in the shape of current history? I have a copy before me which deals with the South Pole, the Delhi Durbar, the current history of China, the doings of the New Zealand Parliament, and the life of prominent New Zealand men? —That is what we want. 25. -So that all the time the Department has been doing what you say it ought to do, in connection with the School Journal? —Yes. 26. You favour giving the teachers a voice in the election of Boards. If the elections were carried out under the parliamentary franchise, with a system of proportional representation, does it not follow that the teacher, as a citizen, would be able to exercise his rights, and therefore influence the election, of a better class of men?— The teachers would have very little influence under the general franchise, but if each teacher had a vote as well as the Committee he would have more influence. 27. Would not that be purely sectional representation?—We have universal representation in Parliament at present, and I do not think it is a good thing. 28. Would not the application of the principle of co-option strengthen the personnel of the Boards materially ?—As to getting the services of men experienced in education, it is certain that if an Inspector who had spent the best part of his life in the Auckland District retired at sixty and had still good work in him, he would be elected by the School Committees and teachers. 29. As an ex-clerk of the Education Department, can you suggest any means by which the returns required by the Department could be simplified?—l think they are a good lot of returns, and they are wanted for general information. Christopher James Parr examined on oath. (No. 29.) 1. The Chairman.} On what matters contained in the order of reference do you desire to address the Commission ?—ln the first place, with regard to the question of the administration of education, more particularly primary education, I consider that the present system of Boards and Committees is as satisfactory a system as the Dominion is likely to get. It is much more easy to criticize the system than to suggest a means for its betterment. As to the areas covered by the Boards, undoubtedly the smaller Boards should be amalgamated, in the interests of efficiency of administration, and more particularly in the interests of the teachers. When I was a member of the Auckland Education Board I came to the conclusion that three Boards could satisfactorily serve each Island of New Zealand —certainly not more than four. The Auckland District may be a little too large, though I would not lay much stress upon that aspect of the matter. I believe that any large business, provided that you get competent executive officers, can be much more efficiently- and economically managed than a comparatively small business. The same principle applies to the administration of education. A great deal depends upon your executive officers. A large district may be just as well-managed as a small one, if not better, provided y 7 ou have competent officers in the Secretary, Architect, and Inspectors. The Inspectors move about among the Committees, and if they are the right class of men they keep the teachers and the Committees in touch with headquarters. I consider that the Chairman of a Board ought to be paid a salary. When I was Chairman of the Auckland Board the work in connection with the office took up quite half my time. Ido not see how the Chairman of a large district can do his duty unless he gives up half his time. The Chairman should travel about a good deal, and get more in touch with the Committees than is usually the case. I found that 99 per cent, of the little differences that arose were smoothed away at once by a visit from the Chairman and, say, a couple of members of the Board to the district. Very often in ten minutes matters that had exhausted reams of foolscap in correspondence were settled to the satisfaction of all parties. Certainly- the Chairman, and possibly the Board members, should get about amongst the Committees more than they do at present in most districts. I should like to emphasize the need for better playground facilities for the children in the Auckland City schools. I think there is the same lack of playing-grounds in Wellington, and I have some recollection of seeing some rather limited playgrounds in Dunedin. If the State compels a child to go to school it is the duty of the State to provide that child with proper open-air playing facilities, so that he may grow up a healthy and strong individual. I need hardly say that the strength of a nation is the physical strength of its people. Ido not think it is fair that we should ask six or seven hundred children in a city like Auckland to play on half an acre of asphalt. This is one matter in which the administration of education in this country
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have been exceedingly shortsighted. The requisite land is available. No doubt J shall be met with the remark, "Oh, the land in the localities where you would want it is worth £10, £15-, .£2O, or £30 a foot, almost a prohibitive value." 1 do not agree with that view. I think the most valuable site is not so valuable as the health and ultimate well-being of our young people. I suggest that a special effort should be made by the Legislature and the local bodies of New -Zealand to enlarge the playing-places attached to our big city schools. That would be one of the best investments that public money could be put into. I suggest that in a place like Auckland the city and the suburban boroughs ought to do their duty in the matter. In such cases the local body ought to contribute, because it would get what is really a park for the young people. I have already suggested that something of that kind should be done with regard to one or two of the local schools. As to the grading of teachers, I hold that you cannot get a satisfactory system of promotion unless the teachers are graded, as is done by the Auckland and Wanganui Boards. I think the Wanganui Board adopted that system first, though we had been discussing it earlier than they had. It was adopted by the Auckland Board during my chairmanship, and I think it was the best thing done in my three years' term of office. I know that under it the teachers have been much better satisfied with their conditions than previously. Of course, there are individual teachers who object to it, but I have generally found that the dissentients are the less efficient people in their profession. I feel that the principle of grading on some plan should be extended to every education district, in the interests of fair-play to the teachers. I approve entirely of the direction of the present legislation with regard to the appointment of teachers. I hold strongly that the Inspectors should grade all the teachers, and that promotion upon that grading is the only satisfactory solution of the problem. I do not approve of the School Committees having the right to select teachers for the schools. I have great respect for the average School Committee. It is a very useful institution, and does a great deal of good work, notwithstanding the tendency nowadays to disparage School Committees; but lam unable to accede to the suggestion that a Committee has any real capacity for the work of selecting the teachers. The men who know the teachers best are the men who have to examine their work.—the Inspectors. The Auckland Board was content to give away the patronage that had previously belonged to Boards, in order to carry out what they believed to be the system fairest to the teachers. The Committees and the public ought to recognize that more than they do. In my time I found that there was a less amount of objection to the change on the part of the Committees when once they got into the swing of the new system. What objections there were were isolated, and could not be substantiated when they came to be examined. I doubt if there is to-day any real objection by the Committees to the Board sending in to them the name of only one candidate. All the trouble on the question is being raised by a very few gentlemen who are sorry to have lost the patronage they exercised under the old system. I am quite satisfied that the plan of promotion by grading, the Board taking the name of the highest-graded teacher and submitting that, and appointing that person in default of reasonable objection, is the most equitable system. Before it came into operation here at least 30 per cent, of the appointments that were made went to the wrong man —not to the man who deserved the appointment, but to the man who was the best canvasser or whose friends canvassed on his behalf. That meant that thirty out of a hundred teachers suffered grievous wrong. We tried the four-name system, but found that almost as a rule the fourth man on the list got the appointment. The system of local control in education matters is immeasurably superior to the Australian system of bureaucratic control from headquarters. In New South Wales a gentleman in Sydney appoints the head teacher of a school five hundred miles away, or removes a teacher from a school six hundred miles away. We should adhere to the principle of local control by Boards and Committees, with certain amendments that might be suggested. As to the syllabus, the conclusion I formed when in office was that the syllabus, if put into the hands of an expert teacher, is a great improvement upon the syllabus that previously obtained, but you must have a teacher of some experience—a teacher who is something more than a mere drudge. He must be an educationist. Our difficulty in my time was that we had so many uncertificated teachers —positively weak, untrained teachers, particularly in the country districts. I felt that in the hands of these people the syllabus was rather a mistake. That kind of teacher requires to have his work cut out and laid before him, and unfortunately we have to put up with him, because you cannot get anything better. We attempted to remedy the difficulty by appointing another Inspector, who is called an. advising teacher, and I think that man has done excellent work among the weak teachers. He explains to them the syllabus,- and suggests to them a course of work, and that has been to the benefit of both teachers and pupils. But get the right kind of teacher and the syllabus is all right. While we are extending the system we must not forget the fundamentals. lam inclined to think we have gone a little off the track in that respect. Some of the subjects, I think, are not taught as well as they were, though others are taught much better. Writing, when I was on the Board, was considered to be better than it had been. The reading, certainly, was better than when I was a scholar in the primary schools, and very much better than it was twenty-five or thirty years ago. With regard to writing, when I say it is better nowadays than it formerly was, I speak as an employer who has to deal with boys who come from the primary schools. I doubt whether there is quite the same accuracy in arithmetic —I refer to the mere drudgery of arithmetic. Ido not think the children are as accurate in long additions as they were. I grant, on the other hand, that their reasoning faculties are better developed, but I regret the falling-off in accuracy. That there is that falling-off lam pretty clear. With regard to geography, the physical side of it is very much better taught than it was. As to political and commercial geography I am not so sure. When I was on the Board we considered that it was rather neglected, and took steps for its improvement, and I believe we have pulled it up in this district considerably. History, too, was absolutely neglected at one time. I do not blame the syllabus for that, but the Inspectors who are charged with the interpretation of the syllabus. I think that, on the whole, the syllabus, if rightly interpreted and put into the hands of competent teachers, is undoubtedly on the right lines for bringing about the best results.
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2. Mr. Pirani.} Do you think it would Ire an impiovement to have the primary, secondary, and technical education of a district under one control—with sub-committees, of course?—l think „ so, on the whole. In a large city I think the Education Board should encourage the formation of a controlling Committee, in order to stimulate public interest. 3. Mr. Wells.} What is your opinion as to the advisability of giving the local body power to - levy a rate for the upkeep of the school, such rate to be subsidized? —1 am very chary of giving the Legislature an excuse for putting the cost of education on to the local rates. 4. I do not mean as to salaries, but simply the maintenance of the school and the maintenance of the school-grounds?—l would not even go as far as that. It would be opening the door. 1 think the Consolidated Fund should bear those charges, otherwise you would get one district laying itself out to do the thing really well, and another, perhaps a poorer district, neglecting education altogether. 5. Would it not provoke a spirit of emulation? —I do not think you could screw the ratepayers up to much emulation. 6. Is there not a great waste through children suspending the education when they leave the primary schools? Have you thought about the establishment of continuation schools?— The matter came before the Board in my time, and we were in favour of the system of continuation schools. I thought it was really a crying need at the time. 7. Do you think public opinion is ripe for making attendance at such schools compulsory? —I do. 8. Mr. Kirk.] Assuming that a Dominion system of promotion were in operation, and that for a vacany there were, say, three applicants of equal standing on the promotion list : would there be any harm in sending all three names to the Committee, and allowing them to make the final choice? —Not the least, if the candidates w-ere equal. 9. Would you favour such an extension? —I do not see any objection to it, 10. Have you had an opportunity of judging as to the results of teaching in school vocational subjects, such as shorthand and typewriting? —I think so. In my office we employ eight lads who came from the Grammar School after having been through the primary schools, and also two typists who have had primary education only. 11. One gentleman has given us his opinion as to the value of the education system as it affects the lives of the young people of the country. Will you give us yours as to its effects upon boys in town? —I have already said that I consider some subjects are much better taught than they were. I see the result of that in the young people I have to do with. 12. Do you think that as a result the boy is better qualified than the boy of fifteen or twentyyears ago? —I doubt if he is. fdo not think the literary side is so well looked after as it was, but if you are going to make your boy a blacksmith or a carpenter I do not know that he is not better turned out now. 13. Is there time in the school to teach such subjects as shorthand and typewriting?- —I do not think they ought to be taught. 14. Mr. Davidson.] Do you think teachers should have the opportunity of securing positions in any part of the Dominion?— Yes. 15. Do you favour, then, a Dominion promotion scheme, such as that advocated by Mr. Mulgan? —There would be many advantages in such a scheme if it could be managed, but the difficulties are manifest. You will have Inspectors with different standards of judgment, and you will not have the same group of Inspectors dealing with the same body of teachers. 16. But is not such a system in operation in the Australian States?—l do not think the difficulties are considerable, but there are some. 17. If they could be surmounted would you recommend the principle strongly?— Yes. You will not get satisfaction from the teachers until you have something of the kind. 18. Do you think the Inspectors should be under the Central Department?—l am not prepared to say. 19. If that w-ere done would not the bringing into operation of a Dominion promotion scheme be simplified ? —Very much. 20. Suppose the Inspectors were placed under the Central Department, would it not be a good thing to have for each education district an officer who might be called the Superintendent of Education, to do what you say you think the Chairman of the Board ought to do —move about the district, and be an adviser to the Board? —T felt very often, when Chairman, that there was a need for a functionary of that kind in this large district, 21. You spoke of organizing teachers: are there many such teachers employed in the Auckland Education District? —I think there are two. 22. Would it not be a good plan to have as your relieving teachers specially qualified men who could act as organizing teachers?—No doubt there is a good deal in that. 23. Mr. Hogben.] Are there typewriting and shorthand classes in any primary or secondary school that you know of? —I think there are in the Grammar School—on its commercial side. 24. Do you see any objection to shaping the education of boys and girls so that they shall receive a general training in connection with the subjects that will have a bearing upon their future careers? —I do not see any objection to that, but you must be careful not to begin that sort of thing too early. The child must first be able to read, write, and spell. When a child is unable to spell two-syllable words correctly I do not know- about the value of training him with a view to his future. 25. Is it inconsistent with the teaching of reading, writing, and arithmetic that the subjectmatter of his education should have refereuce to his future life? —Not at all. 26. The Chairman? Are we all agreed that the pupils who come to you professing a knowledge of shorthand and typewriting are the products of the secondary schools? Is your experience of such persons that they are not as well grounded in composition and spelling as they ought to
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be if they are typists?—l do not know that most of these young people have received their technical training in the schools. I am inclined to think they got it from private teachers. 1 have had ho experience of typists trained at the Technical School. A good deal more than half of the typists and shorthand-writers are turned out from the private schools, which take children who have been through the primary schools. 27. What is your estimate of the instruction they give in these special subjects?—l think they are rather weak at times. 28. Assuming that the Consolidated Fund is charged with the cost of supplying all schools and equipping them, and that it is required to make an addition to a school, or provide it with new playgrounds, or erect new conveniences, is not that a fair charge to put on the local rates, provided that the State gives a subsidy? —I see no objection to giving the local body 7 power to levy a rate for such a purpose, but I would not make it compulsory. 29. As a matter of fact, is there not a good deal of local effort now? Do not the people tax themselves to provide all sorts of things for the schools, the proceeds of which are subsidized by the Board of the district ? Would it not be an advantage in respect of these purposes if the locality, supplemented by. a liberal subsidy from the Government, took these matters into its charge?—l have said, with regard to providing recreation-grounds for the city schools, that it would be a fair thing for the local bodies to contribute. 30. Take the case of one of your city schools : is there not a project to provide a new playground? —Could not it be got by the City- Council, the Education Board, and the Department agreeing to contribute equally to the cost of purchasing the necessary ground?—l have already suggested that, and it is before the Education Board now. 31. Is not the same principle good with regard to other matters? Does it not encourage local effort? —I see grave objections to shifting the responsibility for the maintenance of schools on to the local rates. 32. But lam not speaking about the maintenance of schools. I have excepted new schools? — What precisely would the rate be for ? 33.- For the hundred-and-one things that have to be done during the year?—l would like to know what they are before answering. 34. In one school that I am interested in a swimming-bath has been provided by local effort, and we are asking the City Council to supply water free? Is not that a proper thing?—lf the citizens are willing to help, let them, by all means. 35. Are you, as Mayor of Auckland, prepared to recommend the citizens to provide a sum of money to secure the playground you have referred to? —The area as to which a proposal is before the Board now is one at Ponsonby, several acres in extent, which is quite separated from the schools, though close to them. It would make a first-rate football and cricket ground for the boys. I suggest that it should be acquired as being central for three schools, as a playground. In that case I see no objection to the City Council helping. I think they ought to. 36. But not in the other case where they have no playground at all, and propose to acquire certain properties for the purpose? Is not that even more pressing? —I must consider each case on its merits before I can agree to it. lam not going to favour a proposition which might mean that every local body in the country might be called upon to increase the playing-grounds for the schools. That is the business of the Legislature. 37. Do you favour the creation of a national Council of Education, to control all phases of education in New Zealand? —I think something in the nature of a council of experts would be a step in the right direction. Martha Washington Myers examined on oath. (No. 30.) 1. The Chairman.] What are your position and qualifications? —I am the wife of Mr. Leo Myers, a citizen of Auckland. lam a graduate of the high schools of San Francisco, and took a two-years course at the University of Berkeley, California, My interest in education has been entirely non-professional. 2. What part have you taken in education matters in New Zealand? —My interest in education here has been confined to the free kindergarten movement, which I was instrumental in founding in Auckland. The movement was not properly understood until we worked it through the private kindergarten system. About ten years ago we started a private kindergarten in Remuera, It was well attended, and then the parents of the scholars began to realize the effect of the Froebel principle of education. After we had got a second private kindergarten established, we decided to try again with the opening of a free kindergarten. On securing a capitation grant from the Government w 7 e sent away to the Old Country for a teacher, and Miss Gibson was appointed two and a half years ago. Through the generous gift of Sir J. Logan Campbell we were able to equip the Campbell Kindergarten, erected on land at Freeman's Bay given to us by the Auckland Harbour Board. Our principal difficulty has been that of training teachers — getting the girls to train —but we have surmounted that, and each year the movement is growing stronger and meeting with more public support. The Campbell Kindergarten now has an average attendance of about forty-five, and there are three assistant teachers, who give their services in the mornings in return for the practical training, and in the afternoon attend lectures given by Miss Gibson on the theory of the system. The Auckland Kindergarten Association has under it the Campbell Kindergarten in Freeman's Bay, besides private kindergartens at Remuera and Epsom; and yesterday a second free kindergarten was opened at Newmarket. As with most charitable organizations, we have a difficulty in the matter of funds. The Government granthelps us to the extent of about half our expenditure; the rest is made up by voluntary subscription. Those interested in the movement consider that the free kindergarten system should form part of the education system of the country—that there should be a free kindergarten in every
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primary school in the Dominion. Of course, it is a question of finance, but as I believe we pay more per capita for education than any other country in the world it ought to be possible. After years of sympathetic work in America and New Zealand as a non-professional, but as a mother and a woman keenly interested in all matters bearing upon social betterment, I do most heartily recommend the establishment of kindergartens in every public school in the Dominion. The few free kindergartens at present in existence merely serve as searchlights that throw into bold relief thousands of dull, neglected children- —children of idle, dissolute, or irresponsible parents; children, too, from comfortable homes who are being wrongly developed. Place them in kindergartens during their most impressionable years (from four to seven) in an environment which nurtures what is best in their moral and mental health by occupations suited to their natural unfolding, and you are building up a solid asset for the nation —the forming, from the beginning, of good citizens. Kindergartens stand for formation, and obviate the necessity for reformation. Children passing from kindergartens into public schools assure that continuity so essential to all-round practical education. The present existence of free kindergartens, supported partly by Government grant and partly by private subscriptions, places kindergarten work under the shadow of charitable schemes, and fails signally by being obviously unstable and limited. Kindergartens, being utilitarian and ethical in their essence and aims, should rightly become co-ordinated in your national scheme of educational reforms. The training of young women for this admirable work is of equal importance, its necessity running parallel with the establishment of kindergartens in all public schools. The study of Froebel's methods and their practical demonstration are higher education, rich in culture and in life's principles. Better than that, it carries in its soul the jewel of true womanliness, a working at the very fountain-head of intellectual and spiritual power and moral character. It trains young women towards home-life—not away from it. It is a profession full of depth and dignity, far better and more developing to their womanhood than office, shop, or tea-room. It is the very heart and soul of woman's work. In making the profession of a kindergarten teacher possible to the young women of this Dominion, and in developing young children on right lines during their most plastic years, you are setting the keystone of a higher social and civic life. John Farrell examined on oath. (No. 31.) 1. The Chairman.] What is your position ?—1 am Architect to the Auckland Education Board, and have held that position for the last five years. 2. Mr. Davidson.] Can you give us any idea of the difference in the cost of building between this district and other districts?—lt is difficult to make the comparison. The cost in Auckland is governed a great deal by the amount of work that is in progress at the present time, combined with the high price of materials. On account of the amount of work offering the cost of labour has risen, and timber has also gone up. First-class kauri timber is now costing 265. per 100 ft., and other timbers are in proportion—for instance, the Waikato timbers, which we use for buildings in the King-country and the Waikato. In both cases it is practically a question of supply and demand. 3. Is the cost greater here than in other districts? —I have only the information furnished by the Department, and I understand that it is slightly higher here. 4. Do you find the Auckland District too large for the work to be carried out satisfactorily?— Not from my point of view. The only part of the district that is difficult to work is the Ohura district, but I manage it by means of a system under which I have four men in charge of the maintenance operations in various parts of the Board's jurisdiction. If schools are being erected by contract in the out-districts I arrange with our permanent men to inspect them periodically, and I make the final inspection personally. If the job happens to be near the railway I probably inspect it two or three times during its progress. 5. Is your work mostly done by contract?— The bulk of the new work is. The chief exception is in the case of the smaller schools in the backblocks, where it would be simply waste of time to call for tenders. In that case I employ day labour, or I may arrange with a builder who has carried out the building of a school in a neighbouring district to quote me a price, which if satisfactory is accepted. Our permanent staff consists of two foreman carpenters, a labourer foreman, and two painter foremen. 6. Do you find it satisfactory to -keep these men permanently?— Yes. 7. Except as to the Ohura district, would you prefer the boundaries to remain as they are?— As far as I am concerned. 8. Mr. Kirk.} It has been suggested that all the building in the Dominion should be directed by a Dominion Architect. Do you see any objection to that? —T do not know that there would be any objection, provided that he could get on the work, but it would be necessary for him to have men in every part of the country to control the local works. The conditions differ so materially in the different parts of the Dominion that I do not know whether central control would effect any saving. 9. Mr. Pirani.] Have you ever worked out the cost of working of your department as compared with the employment of a private architect?— With a private architect the cost would be considerably greater. Some time ago, before the work of the office had increased to its present proportions, I found that under an architect's commission my salary would "have worked out at about £1,200 a year instead of £600. At the present moment we have about thirteen or fourteen new schools in hand, besides six or seven additions to schools and teachers' houses. In the last two or three years we have built several new 7 schools in brick. 10. Mr. Hogben.] Can you make any comparison between the cost of building near town at the present time and the cost three years ago?— Take the cost of a primary school built about three and a half years ago : the cost per square foot for class-room floor-space was 155.; including
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the hall and porch it was lis. per square foot, with all the usual outbuildings. In the case of the Grey Lynn School, built about eighteen months ago, the cost w 7 as 17s. per square foot of classroom space, and including porches 12s. The Mandeville School, for which we have just accepted a tender, cost approximately 19s. for floor-space, and including porches 13s. 9d. All these were schools of the same standard. 11. Take the cost of small wooden schools : has there been any material variation in the last three years ? —When I first took over the work here I used to reckon upon getting small schools to accommodate thirty or forty children built for something like 12s. per square foot of floorspace; and small schools for from twenty-five to thirty children for from 14s. to 155.; and the cost of the larger wooden schools, with four or five class-rooms, was about 12s. 6d. per square foot. 12. Are you aware that the prices you have quoted are from 10 to 40 per cent, higher than in the South ? —No doubt, in some places. 13. The Chairman.] Would it tend to economy if such matters as repairs to schools, fencing, eve, were to be done by- local effort, subsidized by the Boards?—l do not think it would. In many instances where we have made grants towards the erection of shelter-sheds we have found that the work was done in a very inferior manner. That does not tend to save our maintenance account at some future time. 14. As a general rule what has been the treatment of your Board by the Department in respect to grants for new school buildings and additions to existing buildings V —We have been fairly well treated by the Department with respect to grants, insomuch that I have so far been able to arrange for the works being done within the amounts granted. 15. Has there been any undue delay in the making of grants?— Not more than is usuallyincidental to proper consideration of applications.
Dunedin, Friday, 14th June, 1912. David Renfrew White examined on oath. (No. 32.) 1. The Chairman.] What are your qualifications?—l am Professor of Education, Otago University, and Principal of the Otago Training College. 2. You have been for a number of years teaching in the schools of the Otago District? —1 have been for forty years engaged in primary-school work in this province. 3. You are a graduate of the New Zealand University and a Master of Arts? —Yes, and hold an A I Certificate under the Education Department. 4. You know fairly well the text of the several matters referred to in His Excellency's Commission. Have you any views to offer in respect to them? —I wish to refer briefly to one or two points in connection with primary education. First, I would call attention to the large increase in the number of subjects that has been taking place not only in New Zealand, but in other countries also. Many years ago we confined our education practically to three subjects. These have been increased to six, nine, twelve, fifteen, and eighteen, and I dare say if we were to go on adding all the subjects suggested by Naires and others who write on education we might increase the list to twenty-five subjects that, according to the views of some people, we ought to teach in our primary- schools. I should like this Commission to consider whether it is wise on the part of those who administer our primary schools to have so many subjects as we have at present. This numerical increase has been intensified in this way : that we have subdivided the subjects themselves. As an illustration, what was formerly spoken of as "geography" is divided off into "critical geography" and "mathematical geography." 1 think that kind of subdivision has, to a large extent, increased the field of our operations in the primary schools. I do not think those facts are disputed by any oue. What has been the effect of this? One result is that, as compared with twenty or thirty years ago, we have now more " once a week " subjects; and 1 believe that any increase in the number of subjects taught in the primary schools will lead inevitably to an increase in the number of subjects that can only be given once a week. Now. a " once a week " subject in my experience may- be necessary, but as a matter of mental discipline or training a subject taken only once a week is not really of much educative value. At least, we ought, I think, to limit that -'tendency. I am quite sure it is a tendency forced upon us by the large increase in the number of subjects. I am in contact with primary-school pupils nearly every day of my life, and have been so for forty years, in the province, and I feel that if we are going to increase the number of subjects in the primary schools, or even retain the present number, it will and does necessitate a hurrying-on from lesson to lesson on the part of the teachers, and this often leaves a lesson in a scrappy or unfinished state. That is rather, 1 think, the tendency of the present day—a tendency 1 think we ought to avoid by keeping down the number of subjects in the primary-school course, taking them more slowly on the part of the teachers as well as on the part of the pupils. All sound educational work.is slow work. I feel that the more we increase the field of study the less accuracy and thoroughness we secure in the subjects studied. As a general principle 1 do not see how any one can avoid that conclusion. As to how the difficulty should be met, I also have some notion as to that. In Germany, in America, and also in our own land I think educational authorities, heads of training colleges and others, have been trying to meet that difficulty of the ever-increasing number of subjects, and still retain in the primary school the same field of study, and secure also thoroughness and efficiency. We have been trying in the first place to co-ordinate the subjects—to see if we can bring two subjects together and so accomplish the work in the time usually given to one. Speaking from my own experience, I frankly confess that after years of trial in that direction f have been able'to do very little in the way of effective co-ordination —that is to say, co-ordination that would obviate
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to any extent the disastrous effects of too many subjects; nor am I hopeful that any known system of co-ordination will meet the difficulty. Those interested in the education movement have tried Either methods. They have tried to meet the difficulty by concentration of subjects. In my opinion, all schemes of concentration have been and will prove an absolute failure. The main objections are psychological. I believe all such schemes are in contradiction to the processes of mind-development. I believe they are condemned both in theory and in practice, and I have no hope of an amelioration in that direction. It has also, I know, been urged that we might get over a larger programme by lengthening the hours in the primary schools. On that point I have nothing to say, both for the sake of your time and mine, and I leave it there. With regard to simplification of the.syllabus, that is largely a matter for experts, and a matter also upon which the public might have some opinions. 5. We regard y T ou as an expert, Professor White, and should be pleased to hear your views? —Well, I will just mention three points which I think require consideration. First, I think we perhaps begin some of our subjects at too early a period in school life. I should like to see the syllabus revised. For instance, in the infant department I should aaj we might do away altogether with formal writing. Such writing implies a very exact co-ordination of the muscles of the hand, and at so early a period of life it ought not to be asked. When I see the little tots endeavouring to adjust their three fingers I feel I am asking altogether too much of them. Then take the question of history. History is a difficult subject however simply it may be treated, and I think it is probably begun too early in our schools. The same applies to civic instruction, which begins, I think, with the Third Standard. 6. Mr. Hogbenj\ No—from the Third?— Well, I believe civic instruction to be a most difficult subject. In the first place, it implies a knowledge of existing institutions which our young children really know very little about—Courts of justice and their constitutions and powers, and so on. It approaches more closely to constitutional history. I think we ought to keep that in view if an alteration in the syllabus is to be made. Acting on this principle, if we ( are at all in doubt as to whether it should go into the Third or Fourth Standard, put it into the Fourth. That will be one way of limiting the subjects of instruction. It will give the mind time to grow. It is better to begin too late than too early with any of our subjects. Ido not say there has not been some improvement in this respect, but I think there is still room for cutting down the syllabus in the scheme of work. The subject to my mind most neglected in our course of instruction is the training of the understanding of the pupils by the giving of more attention to the subjectmatter contained in the lessons, and to a knowledge of the language in which those lessons are couched. Another subject which it seems to me demands more time than we give to it is written composition. It would be better if far more time were devoted to this subject as a mental training for our pupils. I hope my criticism will not be taken as in any waj T condemnatory of our present system, and I only speak in this way because I believe it is capable of some improvement. Well, as regards oral instruction, I believe it is better now than it has ever been, and I would continue it still further. I would not have written composition in the Second Standard' at all. I should postpone it until the pupil had some knowledge of the construction of sentences, because when he makes an error in his little composition it is not sufficient to say to him, " That is wrong " : it is necessary to give him some reason or rule so that he may not commit that error again. Then, from the primary-school course I should strike out nature-study as an independent subject. It is a most elusive subject, and it bears upon the whole programme of instruction. It means nothing and it means everything. It is connected with so many independent subjects of study, and that kind of thing I think we ought to avoid. If nature-study is to be retained as a subject it ought to be taken, I think, in conjunction with the prescribed lessons in the readers. There is ample material in the readers for that purpose. There should be an explanation of what is contained in the written lesson. Nature-study implies a detailed observation and analysis of the parts of plants, for instance —sometimes requiring almost a microscopic examination. I am not sure that we are not beginning to train the observation too early. There is the same tendency with regard to science—the tendency to bring all the " ologies " into the primaryschool course. In my opinion science even in its most elementary form might perhaps be better relegated to the secondary schools, or only taken after a boy has passed the Sixth Standard. That might seem a sweeping kind of reform, but my objective is the bringing-down of the field of instruction. Then there is the subject of hand-work as distinct from manual and technical work. Hand-work is described very clearly in the Inspector-General's report, so that I need not detail what it is. Hand-work with paper and cardboard, and block and-figure laying, have been made independent and separate subjects, and the attempts to co-ordinate them with drawing has had the effect, I think, of interfering to a great extent with the teaching of drawing itself. We have taken from drawing the time which should be given to it. I want to emphasize the necessity for more time being given to drawing as a primary-school subject. Its educative value lies in the fact that it must always be the basis of all technical and manual instruction afterwards. I should like to see our boys have a better knowledge of drawing when they leave the public schools than they do at present. With regard to manual work as apart from what is called hand-work —I mean ironwork, woodwork, and subjects of that kind—l have very decided opinions. They may not be classed as trade subjects perhaps, but in some cases they do involve the use of trade tools, and I think it would be wiser to postpone all those subjects known as " manual " until our boys and girls have gone through the primary course of instruction. That is all I have made a note of so far as primary-school work is concerned. 7. The Chairman.] Have you any views with regard to other matters in the order of reference, such as overlapping and duplication?— Well, I am not so sure that overlapping takes place. It seems to me there is rather a separation of subjects and a want of continuation of the subjects that have been commenced in our primary schools. Take, for instance, our manual work : J
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do not think it is continued in the secondary schools at all. However, my attention having been confined generally to the work of the primary schools, I do not profess to know more than other people with regard to subjects outside that work. With regard to agriculture, I do not think it can be taught in primary schools at all. Agriculture is looked upon as a science. It implies a knowledge of chemistry, and it ought to be taught thoroughly. I fear, although it is not a . papular thing to say, this demand for agricultural instruction does not proceed on right lines. 'The only places in which I think it can be taught are well-equipped district high schools, or in some technical college established for that purpose. That I know to be the opinion of the head of the Lincoln Agricultural College—the highest expert in agriculture in the Dominion. As to the financial aspect of the matter, I would just say, if there are funds available—more mone} 7 available than we have at present for education —I think money should be 'devoted to increasing the salaries of teachers in the small schools. With regard to instruction in technical schools, I see the head of our school here, and he will know more about it than I do. But with regard to the training of our boys after they leave the primary schools, I believe it ought to be made compulsory for all boys to take some instruction in a technical school. I would not compel them to take the regular course, but would rather say to the lads, "You must take one subject; you need not take more." It might be that a boy was fond of mathematics or science. Let him take that subject and no more. To ask a boy to take the full course after his day's work, in my opinion, is not wise. Then, I think some physical training for a period should be made compulsory, for it seems to me that we have a great deal of apparatus that we do not now use. For instance, we have large gymnasia in connection with our public schools, and I do not know that they are ever used at night for the purposes of physical training. I would have those boys compelled to spend one hour a week. If that were done you would soon find that our gymnasia would be crowded nightly with our boys. The military training for boys that has been brought in recently is justified largely on the ground that it is physical training. I suppose it is so, but I think our boys require mental training also, and you would get that in the way I suggest. The military aspect, of course, does not concern me except that incidentally if the scheme, is to cost over half a million of money perhaps a quarter of a million of it might be devoted to the training of the intellect in the way I suggest in our technical schools and gymnasia. With regard to the Bill brought in by Mr. Sidey a year or two ago, I know the Department has done something in the direction suggested in that measure, but Ido not think it has gone quite far enough. Schemes of that kind, of course, can only be carried out in large cities. I do not see how the difficulty is to be overcome in rural districts. Speaking generally with regard to rural education, we cannot expect in a young country like this to be at all fully equipped in that respect. Ido not think there should be any more technical instruction in the sole-teacher schools. I do not think the sole teacher ought to be asked to carry out everything that is taught in a city school. I would limit the subjects for those schools. It may be said, of course, that you are not giving the same education in the country as you are giving in the cities. Well, education does not consist in the multiplication of the subjects taught. It consists largely in the Way in which the subjects are taught and the mental discipline that is attained. The general desire to make our education free from kindergarten to university is, I think, an ideal which we ought to work up to, but there are obvious restrictions which ought not to be disregarded. For instance, I feel sure there are a number of our boys and girls who are taking advantage of secondary education who really have not the necessary capacity for such work, and who would be better employed in the study of other subjects. It is just possible the same thing will extend to the University, and the recent movement in that respect so far as our teachers are concerned was a very wise advance on the part of the Minister of Education. You cannot possibly open the door too widely to our teachers. The proposal to allow all teachers with a C certificate to attend University classes and have their fees paid and other recommendations of a like nature are, to my mind, on. the right- lines. 8. Mr. Pirani.] I suppose you are aware that the suggestions you made with regard to naturestudy and the lines that you considered should be followed are contained in these instructions on page 149 under the heading of " Nature-study " : " The lessons given in the lower classes should be marked by two main characteristics : In the first place they should be really lessons on objects, or natural phenomena —that is, they should treat of things that each child in the class can see with his own eyes or can handle with his own hands; secondly, they should not be disconnected, but should form a course of lessons co-ordinated with one another and, as far as possible, with the other subjects of instruction." Was hot that what you suggested should be done as an amendment? —No; what I suggested was that the nature subjects should be those which are largely contained first of all in the readers themselves, and that there should not be a separate course of study apart from that. I said also I did not think you could co-ordinate. 9. Other people think you can? —That is so. 10. Can you see any difficulty in teaching nature subjects by means of objects which they can see without a microscope?—l said they would almost require a microscope. 11. You do not think they should be given nature-study at all ?—lt depends on what you mean by " nature-study." 12. That is a matter for the teachers? —Yes, but teachers differ, and that is why I am objecting to it as a separate subject. Ido not mean that certain kinds of objects should not be referred to in the primary schools. 13. I only wish to be clear as to what you mean?— Then I wish to supplement what I said. In the infant department of work there are certain things, of course, that we should talk about. I think that in the work of Standards I, 11, and 111 to arrange a definite course of nature-study apart from the reading-lesson is liable to abuse because of the nature of the subject selected and because of the treatment of the subject—too wide and too scientific. I admit it is a matter of method to some extent, but I should prefer, myself, that if nature-study in that limited way is
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to be given at all it should be in connection w 7 ith the subjects taken in their course of reading, and not separately. There is no set of readers now published that does not contain such courses. M a separate course is taken it means durilication, and the work is not done thoroughly. 1 am directing my criticism to this in view of the efforts that are being made to bring down or narrow the field of work. 14. You think it would be wiser to postpone hand-work, such as cookery, I suppose, woodwork, and manual work until after the pupil had left the primary school. How would you get at the pupils who had left the primary schools I —l did not say I would leave it until after the pupil had left the primary school. I said, " after he had passed the Sixth Standard." As you know, thereare seven standards now. 1 have no objection to a boy or girl learning those subjects if I am satisfied that they 7 have got through their Sixth Standard course of primary instruction. 10. What percentage of the pupils who have got through the Sixth Standard remain at a primary school?— lam not prepared to say. 16. Would you be surprised to know that not 20 per cent, remain?—l cannot say what the percentage is. 17. I want to know how you are going to get those pupils who have passed the Sixth Standard to take up these other subjects, such as cookery, woodwork, and so on ? —By including them in the Seventh Standard, or by continuation classes, which I should make compulsory. I made that clear. 18. You said the pupils who attended the continuation classes should be allowed to choose their own subjects. How, then, are you going to compel them to take cookery or woodwork? —I referred to two different classes of pupils. There are day classes and there are evening classes. lam quite sure the boys and girls largely will be sent to the day classes, where there will be a definite course laid down. But for those who have to earn their living in the daytime it should be optional as to which subjects they took up. There are two classes of pupils and there are two courses of instruction. 19. You say those who are compelled to earn their living in the daytime are the ones who should not be compelled to take useful instruction of any given kind, but should be allowed to take what they choose? —There is another way of meeting that difficulty—a difficulty which, if I had time, I should have referred to in connection with Mr. Sidey's Compulsory Continuation Classes Bill. The difficulty comes in here, as we know it does in every country, as to how far is it well to compel employers of labour in certain hours to free their youths from their occupations for the purpose of instruction in the subjects I have referred to. That is how it is met in other lands, and that is what we shall have to do here also, I think. 20. Then you would not have compulsory attendance at continuation classes unless the time were taken from the employers' hours? —I have not committed myself to that. That is only one way. 21. Do you know of any other way?—l do not know of any at present. 22. I think you said you would confine agricultural instruction to such instruction as is given at Lincoln College? —No; 1 mentioned the district high schools. 23. You referred to Lincoln College : do you know how many pupils they turn out in the course of a year ? —I do not. 24. Do you think the Lincoln College meets in any degree the scarcity of instruction in scientific agriculture ? —I know nothing at all about its management or efficiency. lam disposed to think, however, that it might be advisable to have in different parts of the country a kind of school of agriculture leading up to the Lincoln College. 25. A sort of preparatory school? —Yes. 26. Would you be in favour of scholarships for sending promising pupils to Lincoln College or some such similar institution? —The scholarship system is a very wide subject. I think what you suggest would be a very good way, but I do not propose now to discuss the scholarship system. 27. Mr. Davidson.] In regard to nature-study, do I understand you to say that you object to that subject appearing on the time-table as a separate subject?— Yes. 28. Would you have nature-study permeating the whole of the work of the school as far as it can be taught casually ?—ln that way, yes. 29. In regard to physical training, I think you said you thought the many gymnasia about the city and suburbs should be the purpose of physical training in connection with our boys. Is it not a fact that many or most of these buildings are used at the present time for that purpose? —1 am not aware of that. Our own is not so used. 30. I was thinking of certain gymnasia where scouts are taught physical training, and in which there are also gymnastic classes on one or more evenings of the week, and I was wondering whether that was not a general practice? —I was speaking of compulsory physical training. Your question suggests a point I might add with regard to physical training in our schools. For instance, it is said that all boys should learn swimming as part of physical training. That is one branch. Then they are supposed to take certain definite physical exercises which take up a certain section of time; and then they have, also, in addition to that, a kind of military drill. I have never been able to see much good in this marching about the playground, forming fours, and things of that kind, and I was rather gratified to see a high authority like General BadenPowell taking the same view of the matter. Ido not disregard the value of physical training, and I am not sure wffiether in the syllabus we could not bring that physical training somewhat into line. 31. Are not breathing exercises taken in ever} 7 school? —Yes. 32. You consider that a good form of training?— Yes; but it is just possible whether that half-hour a week spent in the playground in physical drill is sufficient. A boy or a girl is not growing only on that particular day when you take him out. He is growing every day, and would it not be better that the regulation should say that ten minutes every morning or every afternoon should be given rather than spend half an hour or two half-hours in the playground per week? I am not quite sure whether that would not be a move in the right direction.
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33. Are not physical exercises taken now in all schools five or ten minutes every- morning, and frequently- during the day? —The Inspectors can answer that, but it is not a general rule with us. 34. Turning to the question of scholarships, would you insist upon those pupils from our primary schools entering the secondaiy schools having some form of guarantee given by their parents or guardians that they should remain in those schools at least two years?—l think it is a most desirable thing. Perhaps it should be provided that if they are not prepared to undertake to remain there that time they 7 will not be allowed to enter. 35. With regard to the classification and training of teachers, have you seen the Gazette issued on the 15th February last containing these regulations?— Yes. 36. Do you think that such regulations before coining into operation should have been considered by the Principals of the training colleges, Inspectors of Schools, and others who are deeply concerned in the matter ?—Obviously. 37. What is 3-our opinion of the effect of these regulations upon the uncertificated teachers in out-of-the-way places?—l do not know that they contemplate the existence of uncertificated teachers at all. They are an anomaly- in our S3 7 stem, and the regulations on the whole are, I think, distinctly an advance and improvement on the existing regulations. 38. Do you think it should not be possible for many of these uncertificated teachers in out-of-the-way places to become qualified? —I think some special provision might be made by the Department for their training, and probably less exacting conditions might be arranged for them .until the Education Boards have finally got rid of them altogether. 39. Do you approve, then, of the increased difficulty in connection with the obtaining of these certificates? —1 think so, for this reason : Whilst we worked under five grades of certificates, A, B, C, D, and E, for a number of years, the D certificate when the E was abolished was not very much higher than the former E certificate. I think, myself, that the standard of work required there is not beyond what our Training College teachers should have on leaving the college. 40. How would you overcome the difficulty in connection with the presentation of a certificate showing- that a course of practical work had been taken by those teachers?— When I expressed my approval of the course of work I might be allowed to make this reservation, that I think the work in science demanded there is rather excessive. As some of you know, I have never approved of the course of science given in my Training College, but there is a possibility now of it being placed on better lines. But I still think that the amount of practical work insisted upon in those regulations is far too great. The relation of some theory in science to practice in science, by lectures, is rather an important matter, which I find as a matter of daily practice we are not able to give. Ido not think it is wise to give more than a quarter of the time to the practical work if students have to pass an examination in theoretical science. You must give time to lectures. lam not sure that w 7 e do not undervalue the effect of lectures. A lecture is a text-book, and no one undervalues a text-book. I think too much opposition has been raised by scientists themselves to this use of a text-book. If you are going to insist upon an examination in science—by that I mean a written paper on the theories of science—you must use a text-book or you must lecture. We are opening up now a new era, to which I have been looking forward for many years, and have urged in vain should be brought in. It would be possible now, I think, to get our teachers better trained in the matter of science. The difficulty has been that we have attempted too many sciences, and the Department has very unwisely, I think, put in the foreground physiology, the most unsuitable for primary-school teachers of all the subjects you could name. The Department has certainly now struck out the word "physiology" and put in "hygiene," but physiology is there all the same. 41. How many students have you at the Training College?—lo6 at present —thirty-eight men and sixty-eight women. Last year we had forty-eight men and fifty-two women —the highest number of men in the history- of our Training College, and the highest number that have attended any training college in the Dominion, and a very much higher percentage than will be found in other countries in the world. Whether it will continue or not Ido not know, but I hope it will. 42. Do you think sufficient provision is made in connection with the Training College for practically training in the art of teaching and controlling classes by students?— For a two-year course, I think, as much as.you could possibly get, and, I was going to say, an adequate amount. Every student who leaves my College has, during his last year, spent ten weeks in practical teaching out of the forty, fam not saying that that is sufficient. What 1 would like to see is this : a third year's course in the Training College, and that in that third year the student should be sent to get practical acquaintance with classes in large schools. That I think would make our system as complete as any system of training teachers with which I am acquainted, and I know the German, English, and American systems. 43. Do you think it would be a good plan if in the immediate neighbourhood of Dunedin the smaller schools —that is, the sole-teacher schools and perhaps the two-teacher schools —were in charge of highly qualified teachers and your students had the opportunity of visiting such schools? —I should not have them sent there either in their first or second year. Opportunities might be given for that class of school in the third year, as I indicate. As you increase the number of students in the College it becomes difficult to get in the necessary amount of practical training; and when I said just now that last year the students got that amount of practical training I omitted to say, in connection with our model school, we have forty juniors and practically sixty senior students, and where the sixty come in it is not possible to get in any one school the amount of training I spoke about. Our students leave the College, so far as that department of work is concerned, the small-school work, only having had one fortnight's continuous training or observation in small schools. We are obviating that to some extent.
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The Board recently appointed another schojl, and we hope now to duplicate the amount of time given in these schools. The more I see of the training of teachers the more I am convinced of this : that it is not advisable to throw them too early into the practical conduct of classes and pupils. 1 think we make a mistake there, just as we do in the training of our pupils in the public schools by beginning them perhaps too early with subjects. 44. What in your opinion is the attitude taken by your students towards their university work and their practical work of teaching—that is, do they take more interest in their university work than they do in the actual work of learning to teach?—l think I could answer that generally by saying that my most successful university students are also my best teachers. 45. Mr. Thomson.] In your opinion do you consider the boys leaving the primary schools to-day are as well grounded as the boys leaving fifteen or twenty years ago in the fundamentals of education? —I do not think they are in writing, reading, and arithmetic. 46. Do you think there should be more home work in connection with our primary schools?— No. I -should have very little home work, or none at all. The only kind of home work that I recommend would be perhaps the learning of their poetry-, a subject greatly neglected in our public schools. It is impossible for us to say- to the.pupils, "During schools hours learn that poetry." We cannot afford the time. But it is essential that all our boys and girls should leave school with a good acquaintance with some of our best poetry, and I do not think they know their literature —by which I mean the knowledge of books and poetry —as well as boys did a few years a ß'°--47. Do you think that travelling school libraries would be a good innovation? —Yes, I do. 48. Do you think that the teaching of history should be made compulsory in Standards IV, V, and VI ? —There is an objection on the part of coreligionists to the teaching of history in public schools, and we are not allowed by the Act to teach it. 49. The Chairman.] Would you treat civics as part of history?—l think civics might be separated from history, and, if so, f do not think there would be the same difficulty in teaching it. It could be separated from all questions of religion. Immediately you go to the history of the past there are difficulties. 50. Mr. Thomson.] I was rather meaning that phase of history which builds up respect for one's nation, and so on?— 1 hold very highly the opinion that we ought to teach history more thoroughly than we do at present, and I offered all the resistance I could to the change that was made some few years ago when it was left to the option of the teachers to take history just as a reading subject. To read it without being questioned upon it was, I think, a mistake. But there, again, if you want history thoroughly taught, or taught as it must be if well done, you have to make room for it. 51. In regard to the teachers' training colleges, is it your experience that a number of students are using the Training College as an entrance-door to some other profession ?—I have been twenty years in the Training College, and I am aware that the assertion has been made that the training colleges are used as an entrance : door to some other profession, and of those I have trained a fewhave left to go in for medicine. I do not think, however, that a sufficient number has left to justify a condemnation of the colleges on that score. Ido not see any reason why a student at the end of Iris term when he finds, as one of mine expressed it, he " was not cut out " for teaching, should not enter that profession for which he feels an aptitude. The State has not lost much by it. 52. Mr. Poland.] What remuneration is given to students preparing for teaching work in the college? —Those whose home is in the city get £30 a year and University- fees, and those coming from a distance get £60 and University fees. I think this is a very generous remuneration. Ido not forget the service the Inspector-General rendered to education in the matter of organizing our training colleges in past years. 53. Do you think it is desirable to allow a teacher in the training college, if he or she finds they are not suited for the calling, to leave the teaching and enter some course more congenial?— There is a bond which provides they must do a certain amount of teaching as a kind of return for the money spent on them. From a teacher's point of view I think it is desirable that every one who does not enjoy his teaching should leave it. 54. You have mentioned several subjects which you consider should be given more attention in the primary schools. You mentioned composition and drawing, and you would give these subjects more attention by reducing the number of subjects. Are there any other subjects you consider should be given more attention in the primary schools? —I refer to the whole question of the selection of his reading. Speaking of the three Rs, they may contain a great deal or very little, but reading has such a wide influence on a boy's life and character. Take reading first of all as a mere physical exercise. Do they speak as distinctly or as accurately- as they could do? Are they keeping up the standard of the English language and giving sufficient time? Ido not think they are, and more time might be given. As for reading, which includes the meaning of words, do they know the meaning and application of words and their intent in order to get an intelligent reading? It is a united subject, and all teachers should have more time to give to it. If that were done we would be equipping a boy or girl in a way wider than most of us imagine. Really, if we could imagine how many false notions are abroad because boys and girls are not taught to think through reading we would give more time in the primary schools to that subject than Aye do now. 55. You think that.sufficient time is not given to the teaching of English language? —I would like to give more. 56. And have some other eliminated? —What I have suggested is tins : that instead of having an elaborate syllabus as to what teachers should give and not give, there should be some simplified form which says, " These are the subjects, and these are the important ones, and every teacher in this Dominion shall, be compelled to give so-many hours out of the tw 7 enty-five to these subjects."
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It would be a great safeguard; and if a teacher takes up any particular branch, then lie must give so-many hours to that. That is the difficulty of our syllabus. Teachers do not see the relative value of subjects. They have fifteen subjects put before them, and one is as important as the other, almost. You say that the matter of arranging the time-table should be left in the hands of the teachers. I should prefer that the Department should say in regard to these matters that relatively we expect to find so-much time given to this subject, and if the teacher knows his work all would be well with that subject in the Dominion. 57. You turn, out a large number of trained teachers from the College?—lt has been in existence continuously for thirty-six years. 58. Do you find that the College is supplying the wants of the country with regard to certificated teachers, or is there still a large number of uncertificated teachers in small country schools in Otago?—l think the Board's officers will tell you there are still a large number of uncertificated teachers in Otago. Our four- colleges have not quite met the position yet, although I thought they would. The reasons why, I need not enter into now. 59. Some of your best teachers go to other districts, perhaps?— Yes, we have sent a large number to other parts of New Zealand. 60. Two Boards, Auckland and Wanganui, have a system by which teachers are graded by the Inspectors, or on the advice of the Inspectors, and appointments are made in accordance with the grade of the teachers. Do you approve of that system of appointment ? Do you think it is preferable to that in existence formerly, of submitting names to Committees and allowing the Committees to choose one of half a dozen? —I think that plan has worked very well. I think the Board has certain functions. Those functions are to keep up the standard of efficiency on the part of teachers for every grade of school—that only those who hold a certain certificate should hold a certain position. I think that is probably where the Board's functions should end in selecting teachers, consulting, of course, with the Inspectors. 1 think the Committees have also a function to perform. They are interested in their schools, and I would give them a certain amount of selection. Also, I think in the case of large schools headmasters should always be consulted with regard to the appointment of members of the staff. 61. The Chairman.]. By whom?— The Board or the Committee, or both. With those three restrictions, appointments fairly carried out would quite meet the case. 62. You think the Committees should be consulted and have the actual power of choice out of several submitted? —Within a certain limit: the Board having said, " That is our number, take one." The Board is satisfied the teachers have reached a certain standard. 63. Supposing that one teacher in the opinion of the Board, on the advice of the Inspectors, is better qualified for a particular position than any other teacher, do you think that that teacher and two or three other teachers less qualified in the opinion of the Board and the Inspectors should be submitted to the Committee and that the Committee should have the right of choice?—l would not like to answer that question. 64. Do you not think that the best teacher and the best entitled should get the position?— That goes without saying, as a general principle. 65. Do you think that the members of a School Committee are in as good a position to decide which teacher is the most suitable one for their school ? —I do not think they are, as a general rule. I assume that the Education Board with the Inspectors and officers are, as a matter of principle, the best judges in that way. 66. Do you think that the teachers of secondary schools should receive training as teachers? — It is very essential, more particularly in keeping up a continuity from the primary school, and I hope the time will come when all teachers who take their place in the secondary schools will have had a primary-school training. 67. Do you think the inducement in the matter of salary for teachers is sufficient to obtain in this country the best talent possible for that work?— Just at present, when there is a dearth of teachers, some of our trainees Began in their first year with a salary of £180 and, I think, in one case £240 a year on leaving the Training College. That perhaps is a little exceptional. I am quite sure that the heads of our large public schools should be paid very much more than they are, because if they wish to enter into law or other professions they can get much larger salaries. If you do not pay the heads of the large public schools much more than they are getting now you cannot expect boys of talent to go in tka't direction. lam quite sure of that, because our young men very early see that it is a very restricted field. They see they are not likely to get more than £400 a year if they work all their life, whereas their friends, no better qualified than they are, who enter the law or medicine as a profession do so much better. 68. You think the prizes in the profession should be largely increased?—l do, and I say it as one who is now coming near the close of my work. If you pay those at the highest point much more than they are being paid now, you will induce a much greater number of capable men to enter into and remain in the profession. 69. Mr. Kirk.} You do not mean to imply that the salary is the only thing that the teacher looks to, and that he has no other ideal? —Not at all. Speaking for myself—and 1 may be pardoned the allusion —I do not know anything I would have like better than teaching during the whole of my life, and therefore I have been content to carry on the work, even if I might have made more in something else. I like to keep the mere materialistic phase in the background when addressing the students, but you cannot keep it from the young men altogether. 70. Do you favour the introduction of a scheme of Dominion promotion for teachers? —I have not had time to think that out, but I would just say this : I do not believe in any parochial administration of our education. We have had no reason to complain of our teachers going to other provinces and being admitted, and I do not see why they should not come from other districts to ours.
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71. The Chairman.] Is there a free entrance to teachers from another education district to this? —I cannot quite understand the objection. Three of my students went to Christchurch at the of last year after finishing their course. They told the Chief Inspector there that they could ' not get into a city school in Dunedin, and would like to get into a Christchurch school. Obviously the reply they received was that the Christchurch people must look after their own teachers first. -There is a certain amount of loyalty, I suppose, to one's own district, but beyond that I do not know that any Board is absolutely against it. I do, however, remember one instance where a Board has made a restriction of that kind. Ido not think it is wise. 72. Do you think it is proper? —No, I do not. 73. Mr. Kirk.] Do you think drawing should be taught more largely than it is in primary schools? —Yes. 74. Even in the infant department?— Yes; I would like to see it there take the place of writing. 75. You spoke of writing as requiring very exact co-ordination of the muscles of the hand : would that objection not apply to drawing? —I think not. 76. Is it that our system of writing is at fault? —To some extent. 77. At what age, in your opinion, should children enter a primary school? —It all depends on the kind of work you are going to give them. I have been associated with kindergarten schools since they were first established here, and I think that with great profit children might be employed at five years of age. I would like to see the kindergarten training carried on until the child is seven years of age, and the primary-school course proper might begin at, say, the age of seven years. 78. The Chairman.] That is the practice in Germany, is it not? —I think so. That only carries out what I was expressing in my own way —namely, to postpone, if you can, until a later period the beginning of all formal training. 79. Mr. Kirk.] Speaking generally, what should be the aim of education in the primary school? —I should say, a more thorough knowledge of the three Rs. 80. Is the teaching in primary schools sufficiently correlative between the school and the pupil's future life-work?—l think if the foundation in the three Rs is laid In the way 1 have indicated they have got all that is necessary for them to get. 81. Does our system give a reasonable guarantee to parents that their boys and girls are being turned out fit to usefully use their brains? —That is a very difficult question to answer. 82. It is really at the root of the matter? —Yes, but it depends on what your ideal of primaryschool work is. I can only say I should be justified in expecting pupils to carry out their life work more successfully if they were more thoroughly grounded in reading, writing, and drawing, and the elements of arithmetic. So far as we are not doing that, I should say we are not in that sense quite equipping them as well as I should like to see them equipped. 83. Have you anything to say, favourable or detrimental, in regard to the examination of school-children? —I have very definite ideas about examination. The tendency of modern days is to undervalue examination, to undervalue its educative effect. There can be no education without examination. But here, again, examination only means revision. It is not examinations we ought to seek to do away with, but the manner in which those examinations have been carried out in the past. We must examine in every phase of education —primary, secondary, and university. It may be oral examination or written examination. The objection is generally to the written examination, I believe, and in my opinion no one knows what he is talking about until he can put it down in writing. Ido not know what my students may think until I say, "Will you put down what you think." We ma} 7 have had too many examinations—l do not know; but I am quite sure of this : that the examination in primary-school work, especially for the leaving examinations, should be almost exclusively- in the hands of outside authorities — the Inspectors. I fear that this indiscriminate authority of allowing the headmaster to pass his pupils is leading to a lower standard of efficiency generally. Although we often discuss that a teacher should be the best judge of what his pupil can do—and that is to a certain extent true, and if that is to be defeated by passing them to the Inspectors I should be against it —but I feel this: that I never yet knew an Inspector to "fail" a student who deserved to pass, and the Inspectors have always been ready to consult the teacher. Obviously, in the case of small schools, to throw the reponsibility on the hands of the teacher is not, in a local district, an advisable thing to do. It is now being discussed, as in university circles, whether there should be outside examiners or not. I think in. every subject of examination, whether it be for a certificate, a diploma, or a degree, we should call in the judgment of some one who has not been engaged in the actual teaching of that subject. 84. Mr. Wells.] In answ 7 er to a question you said you did not approve of home-work except in recitation. Would you not include reading and spelling?— Yes, I think those subjects are just as necessary as poetry.. 85. You also expressed the opinion that the work of the three Rs in the primary schools was not as good as it was twenty years ago. In Auckland we were assured by leading business men that reading and writing are better now than was the case with boys twenty years ago. Do you indorse that? —You may have been in a very bad state twenty years ago in Auckland; I do not know. I do not teach every day now, but I have taught all the standards, and I have before me every week classes in my own school. I know they cannot add so quickly and multiply as they used to do in the Sixth Standard. They are generally slower. Of course, the same time is not now given to English. There is a certain amount of time given to reading, and they maybe able to read with fair fluency, but the understanding is not so good. The Inspectors are the best judges of that so far as the whole district is concerned. 86. Do you think that arithmetic might be simplified still further? —Yes, I do not think that we require to hold to the old historical subdivision of arithmetic.
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87. At about what average age do your trainees enter the Training College? —About eighteen. 88. They are twenty at present when they leave? —Yes. ""■ 89. You are suggesting a third-year course?—Y^es. 90. Do you not think that with the present small nature of the prizes to be looked forward to, if they had to serve a three-years instead of a two-years apprenticeship, it might make a still 'larger number ..disinclined to enter the profession ? —A medical degree could not be got under a five-years course. 91. But the reward is much greater?— That is so. 92. If you are going to lengthen the period of training will it not be necessary to increase the prizes?—We might obviate that by beginning a little earlier the pupil-teacher or the trainingcollege course. I think you are quite right in your suggestion of what the effect might be. It has been said that the long course has been the means of keeping teachers out, but, having regard to efficiency, I do not see how you are going to obviate that. 93. What proportion of your students are Class B students? —This year none were admitted but those who had been pupil-teachers. We refused all except two, who were admitted under the provision of having obtained the B.A. degree before entering. 94. You give preference to those who have served their pupil-teachership ?—Yes, we had no room for more. 95. Do you find those students who have had no previous experience of teaching turn out satisfactorily? —Yes. Taking the average capability, many have done remarkably well; but, as a rule, they have been a little older than the average student who has been a pupil-teacher. 96. Here in Dunedin do the trainees get the whole of their practical training and observation of teaching in the Normal School?— Yes. 97. In Auckland we have a system under which the Inspector picks out a number of, in his opinion, first-class teachers in different schools, and in the second year one or two students are attached to these teachers to observe their work. Do you think that a good system?—We had in Otago a number of years ago a system of associated schools comprising the city and suburbs. Mr. Fitzgerald had experience of that, and so had 1. If it rested with me I should not revert to that system. I should favour it in the third year, not in the second year. 98. You do not find that pupils in the Normal School suffer at all through the amount of practising done on them? —It is a very common opinion that such is the case. I might say- that if 3 7 0u look up our Education Board report 3-ou will find that the Normal Practising School has received " excellent " all round, and I am not sure if it was not the only school in the city to receive that mark. There are compensations in the students going to that institution : I have often heard that said. So far as our own schools are concerned, I think I might appeal with very great confidence to the fact that, although it has been the practice for twenty-five years, the Normal School pupils, I think, have not done worse than others. I think I am right in saying they have done as well as the pupils of any other school of a similar size. 99. Has Dunedin any hostel in connection with the Training College?— No. 100. Do you think it is advisable to introduce one for the boys and one for the girls?— Yes, I should very much like to see it. 101. You think they are an advantage? —Yes, the social life and training they would get by coming in contact with each other would be beneficial. I may say- that, as a member of Knox Residential College Council, it was their intention at one time to admit some of our students, and in the first year four of our students entered, and others have been promised places. I found it was a very great advantage to the students who entered that residential college in their training as men. 102. Is there any shortage of teachers in this district? —Yes; I think there are about twenty or twenty-two vacancies being advertised. 103. Would you approve of the suggestion to bring any teachers from Home?— No. I do not approve of what you do in Auckland, sending Home for teachers for heads of the schools. We can quite well train teachers to take charge of schools of that kind. 104. Do you think teachers in the backblocks might be allowed to take the D certificate in three sections? —These teachers in the backblocks are of different classes. Some of them, lam sorry to say, have been through the Training College, and some of them were not as diligent students, from various reasons, as they might lmve been, and I think we ought to take care in opening the door too wide for some of those. 105. There will be a large number of teachers in the backblocks who are really desirous of doing their best, and they will find it very difficult to get their certificates ? —lf my memory serves me right about two-thirds of the whole of the schools are sole-teacher schools. The training of our teachers for the backblocks is a very important problem. I think that perhaps if they were paid better we might get over the difficulty by that means. Ido not think you should open the door too wide. I do not think that they should be allowed to get their D certificates on very much easier terms than they can be got at the Training College. I fear the lowering of the standard, which I regard as a very serious matter. I believe this question was discussed by our own Board, and a statement was laid on the table showing that these uncertificated teachers had done remarkably good work. 106. I gathered from your remarks on the subject of examination that you would not be in favour of the accrediting system by which the headmaster of a primary school could pick out certain pupils as being efficient, and allow them to pass on to the secondary schools without examination ? —I think there ought to be an examination at the leaving at every stage for the primary and secondary- .schools, just as there is for the University. 107. Do you think the kindergarten system should be incorporated with the public-school system of the Dominion? —Yes, I think there should be a kindergarten in connection with every large public school,
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108. Mr. Thomson.] Is it not a fact that sometimes you will get a teacher of high academic standing who will not do as good work as a teacher of very low academic standing, but who is a horn teacher ? —That sometimes happens, but I think it is exceptional. There might be some way of opening the door for them, but I think the existence of uncertificated blackblocks teachers or of any teachers at all is a thing we ought not to have. It is an anomaly in our system. 109. You. think facilities should be afforded to enable these men and women to obtain these D certificates? —I think so. If they are in the service I think they are entitled to some consideration. 110. The Chairman.] You admit the training colleges at present are unable to turn out certificated teachers sufficient for requirements I —Yes. 111. How long do you think it will take to overcome this deficiency? —I have no idea. It has arisen largely because a more generous staffing was allowed to the schools, and the substitution of teachers for pupil-teachers, and, I suppose, by the increase in the number of schools. But I cannot think it will go on indefinitely; it is only a temporary trouble. You have at least fifty teachers being turned out of each training college every year, which means two hundred a. year, not reckoning the leakage by retirements, deaths, and so on. 112. Mr. Hogben.} In regard to nature-study, I understand you would not start with the object, but with the reading-book? —Yes, but I must have the object as well. I would not give a nature-study lesson unless I had the object before me. 113. Then, you would not do as they do in the German and French schools—take subjects which are not found in the reading-books, but which the children can observe themselves —some natural object which they are trained to observe, and about which they are asked questions? — The objection generally to it is that, they are allowed to take a little biology and botany and geology, and a little of everything here and there, until really I wish the word had never appeared in our programmes. It is just doing as much harm to practical education now as the word "nature" did in Rousseau's time. Nobody knows what the word means, or everybody has a different meaning for it. 114. In science? —Science is not dealt with in quite the same way in text-books as a rule now. I have looked over lots of programmes of work to see what I could get in science, but there is not much in the text-books as constructed at the present time. We ought to have a little more information in regard to some things, but my opinion is that fourteen years of age is about the time to begin science-teaching. I would let the high schools do the work in science. I do not think we would lose anything by it. 115. Do you not think it is natural for a young child to observe all there is about him?— I would like to get some definition of what "observing" means before I answer. lam not sure that children are so very fond of running streams, and stones, and flowers, and animals as they are supposed to be. I am rather inclined to think that is a manlike view of the subject. 1 think children are vastly more interested in subjects concerning the imagination —stories, and literature of that kind. Of course, the best of all methods must be observation; but in regard to observation in nature-study lessons as I see them pursued, I feel that perhaps nowadays we are emphasizing this aspect of education—observation —to the neglect of what is really the highest faculty at that period—namely, training the memory. 116. You can train the memory?—l think you can improve the memory : that is my impression. As there is such a difference of opinion about a subject of this kind, we ought to know better where we stand before it appears as a primary-school subject. 117. You say you would not teach history in the Third Standard: I take.it you mean you would not teach any of the civics you mention, but you would not exclude historical stories from the English? —My method is always to begin with biographies and stories. 118. You would not prevent a teacher in the Third Standard allowing his class to read stories? —Certainly not. It was civics I referred to particularly- there. 119. With regard to small schools, do you not think there is a fear that if we were to give a higher salary in schools of Grade 0, we will say, than we are giving now, we would increase the number of such schools very largely?— Why should they be increased? I cannot see any reason for it when you consider the social and other disadvantages which are implied in going into the country to small schools with an attendance of from one to eight. 120. Would not the tendency establish three schools of eight rather than one school of twenty-four? —I do not know whether it would have that effect, but when I said we should increase the salaries at small schools I was not thinking of Grade 0 schools, f was thinking of sole-teacher schools. 121. Of from nine to thirty-five in attendance? —Yes. 122. And you would increase these salaries? —I think so. 123. The Chairman.] We have had the suggestion made that the local authority of each education district should control the primary, secondary, and technical education of that district: do you favour or disfavour that? —I do not favour that, I think that as a general principle the more local autonomous government you can have the better it is for the country and its administration. I think you get better administration, greater interest, and greater efficiency- in administration the more you increase the local administration. Ido not believe in centralization, and that would be a form of centralization. I think you get better administration when you have a Technical School Board with its specific functions, and a School Committee with its specific functions, providing that the administration is not too costly. 124. Does a multiplicity of Boards conduce either to efficiency or economy of administration? —I do not srfppose it conduces to economy.
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125. You laid considerable stress on the ill payment in certain grades of schools: would it not be an encouragement to the teaching profession and bring in young men and women if they -knew it would be possible for them, under one controlling authority of this kind, to fill any of the positions in these several classes of schools? —I do not see in what way the existence of these separate Boards interferes now 7 with the promotion you speak of. 126. Is it a fact that a teacher who has the advantage of having been trained in the primaryschool course gets the same opportunity in a secondary school as the man without it? —No, 1 think that in the appointments in the past the fact that students have been trained in the college has not received sufficient weight. I think there is a kind of tradition in high schools —if 1 am right in saying so —that they must look to the most brilliant university man to some extent in their appointments. That may be necessary for the head of the school, but for the assistants Ido not knew how it has worked out. I have seen occasional instances of it, but \ have not seen very much to warrant me in saying that well-trained primary-school teachers would not be appointed to secondary schools —in fact, I could name a dozen who are in our secondary schools. 127. A secondary-school teacher who has had the advantage of a thorough primary-school training would be a distinct acquisition to a secondary-school staff? —I believe that is right, but Ido not quite see what connection there is. The suggestion before the Commission is that Education Boards might undertake all these duties. I think they would have far too much to do to do it thoroughly. 128. Do you know that an Education Board in this Dominion does administer these different branches of education, and, it is claimed, administers them well? —I have not heard of it. That is a matter of experience. 129. In regard to the issue of these teachers' regulations, as the head of the Training College, do you not think it would be much better if, before these regulations are promulgated, those who have to administer them should be consulted in regard to them, and should have a prior knowledge of what is intended ?— I was very much surprised when they w-ere issued —in fact, I was indebted to other people for a copy of the regulations. One wishes to be perfectly fair to the Department, and 1 will say that these subjects had been discussed in Wellington previously, but they were very superficially discussed; and I do not think a document of that kind ought to have been sent round to training colleges—to myself, without my having had an opportunity to say something in regard to the.wisdom of some of them. I think the Department ought to fully consider any new departure in this direction w 7 ith all those concerned. I may say that I have not yet made any recommendation to the Department in regard to these regulations or any others that the Department lias not always given the fullest consideration to. 130. Would it be to the advantage of national education if a Council of Education were setup for the Dominion which would possibly produce a continuity of policy and uniformity of interpretation? —Yes, I think a Council of Education would be most desirable, for this reason : the tendency of all Departments—education and everything else—is to take power to themselves. I think in any conference that is held between Inspectors and teachers there ought always to be an equal number of teachers with Inspectors. A conference that is wholly Inspectors may or may not be dominated by the officers of the Department. 131. Is that your experience after attending any such conference?—l have had that impression—that the heads of Department who were sitting at that table exercised more than an individual vote at that table. 132. Mr. Pirani.] Do you think it would he better in connection with these conferences if at certain periods of the conference the discussion and consideration were carried on in the absence of all official representatives?—l do. 133. The Chairman.] As one who has taken part in these conferences, y-ou think that the absence of the element Mr. Pirani has referred to would have the effect of promoting a fuller and freer discussion than would be obtainable otherwise?—l have had the feeling in regard to certain subjects that if the Inspectors themselves had discussed the matter without knowing the mind of the Department beforehand their decision might have been something different. Peter Goyen examined on oath. (No. 33.) 1. The Chairman.] You were .Chief Inspector of Schools for the Otago District for many years?—l was in the service of the Board as Inspector and Chief Inspector from 1882 to 1910, when 1 retired on superannuation. I wish to mention the following matters bearing on topics contained in the order of reference. I wish to begin by submitting some statistics compiled from departmental returns. In the first set, column A shows to the nearest £1,000 the income of Education Boards for the years 1900-1910, and column B the approximate rate per cent, of increase on the income of the preceding year. Year. A. B. 1900 ... ... ... ... £502,000 1901 ... ... ... ... £533,000 sB per cent 1902 ... ... ... ... £586,000 99 1903 ... ... ... ... £608,000 3'B 1904 ... ... ... ... £632,000 3 7 9 1905 ... ... ... ... £679,000 7 1906 ... ... ... ... £846,000 246 1907 ... ... ... ... £848,000 o'2 1908 ... ... ... ... £917,000 8 • 1909 ... ... ... ... £949,000 3\5 1910 .., ~. ... ... £995,000 4"8
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The rate of increase for the period is 98 per cent., or an average of 9 - 8 per cent, per year. Number of pupils for the year 1900, 130,724; number of pupils for the year 1910, 156,324: increase for the period, 25,000: percentage of increase for the period, 19 6. Approximate cost per pupil for 1900 and 1910: 1900, £3 16s. 9d. ; 1910, £6 7s. 3d. : increase per cent, for the period, 657. Hence the ratio of the increase in income to the increase in the number of pupils is, roughly, -as 10 to 3. Cost of management of Education Boards, including cost of inspection and examination : 1900, £29,231; 1910, £41,395: increase, £12,164: increase per cent., 41"6. Cost of buildings: 1900, £51,806; 1910, £136,716: increase, £84,910: increase per cent., 163-9. Salaries of teachers and of pupil-teachers (with allowances for lodging) and grants to Committees : 1900, £401,977; 1910, £650,899: increase, £248,922: percentage of increase for the period, 619. Cost per pupil on this basis: 1900, £3 Is. 6d.; 1910, £4 3s, 3d. : increase per cent, for the period, ds'4. The foregoing statistics show a large increase in the cost of education during the decade to which they refer, and I regret to say that, as far as my experience goes, increase in educational efficiency has not been commensurate with increase in cost. There has certainlybeen great improvement in drawing and other hand-work, and school life has been made easier and pleasanter, but as certainly there has been decline in English, geography, and history —in Knglish decline in knowledge of the function of words and of sentence-structure, and in geography and history decline in knowledge of facts and their relation. Cost per head of population of all departments of education in the Dominion for the year 1910: primary, 17s. 6d.; secondary, 2s. 5d.; technical and continuation, Is. Id.; higher (university), Is. Id.; total, £1 2s. Id. Far be it from me to suggest that we spend too much on education, but 1 do suggest that the Dominion does not receive an adequate return for what it spends. This is, I think, owing partly to unnecessary multiplication of governing bodies, partly to pressure exercised upon the Department by these bodies for grants for expensive buildings and equipment that under a single management would in large measure be unnecessary, and partly to the circumstance that, owing to the indifference of many parents, we do not get out of the machinery so liberally provided by the Treasury what we ought to get out of it. Other causes will appear as I proceed. Obviously the multiplication of governing bodies does not make for economy, for offices have to be paid for and officers paid (the cost of offices and officers for secondary schools in 1910 was £3,519); and, since these bodies work independently, there is little care taken to prevent overlapping in subjects taught in the same area. In Dunedin, for example, most of the subjects taught in the day Technical School and the high schools are identical and could be taught in the same school; and in my opinion there is no subject taught in the day Technical School for which adequate provision could not be made in the high schools. Ido not doubt that, if the Education Board had been the sole controlling authority here, provision for all that is taught in the day Technical School would have been made ill the high schools. Precisely what occurs in Dunedin occurs in the other large centres in the Dominion, involving, I think, waste both of money and of energy. Again, at the end of 1908 first-year pupils at the secondary schools numbered 1,648, and at the end of 1909 second-year pupils numbered 1,217 —that is, of the first-year pupils 1,217 completed the second year's course; hence 431, or 26 per cent., of them took only a part of it. The average cost per pupil at the secondary schools is about £11 (slightly over). The cost to the Dominion of these 431 pupils for the first year was therefore £4,741, most of which was, in my view, pure waste; for most of them might with as much profit have spent the time at the primary schools if these were so organized as to provide for the continuance of the education of boys and girls who, after winning their certificate of proficiency, do not intend to complete a two-years course at a secondary school. At the end of 1909 first-year pupils at the secondary schools numbered 1,931, and at the end of 1910 second-year pupils numbered 1,404 —that is, of the first-year pupils 1,404 completed the second year's course; hence 505, or 27 per cent., of them took only -a part of the second year's course. The cost of them to the Dominion for the first year was £5,555, which with £4,741 makes a total of £10,296 spent in two years on pupils that failed to complete a two-years course. There appears to be similar leakage in the day technical schools, for, according to the only return I have been able to find, first-year pupils numbered 736, while second-year pupils numbered only 287. I may here refer to another leakage, one that involves waste not of money, but of national, moral, and mental efficiency —I mean the leakage of children betweeu S4 and S6. Uetweeu S4 and S5 there is a leakage of about 19 per cent., and between So and S6 a leakage of about 32 per cent. —that is, about 19 per cent, of the children who.-<complete the course prescribed for S4 do not complete that prescribed for S5, and about 32 per cent, of those who complete the course prescribed for S5 do not complete that prescribed for S6. In my judgment there is also waste of money on manual work in primary schools, especially on paper-folding and brushwork. The materials for the latter are costly, and blobbing with brush and colours does not, I think, give to hand and eye so good a training in accurate observation and expression as does drawing with the pencil from nature. Paper-folding is useful chiefly for the purpose of giving elementary notions of plain geometry (lines, angles, surfaces), and should not be taken earlier than S3, to be followed in S4 by card-board-work to give elementary notions of solid geometry. This, with scale-drawing, would lay a good foundation for woodwork and mensuration in So and S6. The removal of paperfolding and brushwork from the junior classes would enable the teachers to give more time to English, including recitation, story-telling, and well-toned and well-articulated speech; and if in addition the statutory school day for Class P were reduced to three hours, the teachers would be set free to teach the senior girls needlework and domestic economy. The normal school day for all the standard classes is five hours, hence the arrangement suggested above would enable the teachers of Class P to give nearly two hours a day to work that is of great importance to the senior girls. There is waste, too, in the employment of itinerant touchers to teach special subjects. By this time the training colleges should have prepared a sufficient number of teachers qualified to teach these subjects in all the schools in which they are needed. Lastly, there is to my mind
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waste of money in the employment of special Inspectors to inspect and report on the manual work of the primary schools and the management and teaching of the secondary work in the district High schools, for all this work is done by the Board's Inspectors, and does not need repetition by departmental Inspectors. The aim of education is training for efficient citizenship—that is, training for the efficient discharge of the duties imposed by universal suffrage and the demands of efficient industry. This training cannot be achieved between the ages of six or seven and fourteen, and the attempt to achieve it within this period has everywhere resulted in overcrowded syllabuses —syllabuses based on the assumption that it is possible to turn out boys and girls of thirteen or fourteen yeahs of age with the mental and moral equipment for the citizenship of adults. It is, of course, felt that if this subject or that is not studied within the primary-school period the child will remain ignorant of it for the rest of his life. The aim is praiseworthy, but, unfortunately, from lack of time and immaturity of intellect to realize the aim, only a smattering of the work mapped out is achievable. Thoroughness is the touchstone of education, and thoroughness is impracticable with most present-day syllabuses. The aim of a primary-school syllabus should be not to provide for vocational instruction, but to lay a good foundation for the years of mental and physical development that takes place between the years of fourteen and seventeen or eighteen, and for this adequate provision has not yet been made in New Zealand. At the most critical period of life, at the time when their education is beginning to operate most efficiently, and the continuance of mental, moral, and physical discipline is all-important to their future and to the future efficiency of the nation, thousands of boys and girls of the towns and cities year by year pass from the discipline of the schools to a world where, when they are not at work, they loaf about learning little that is elevating and much that is degrading to character, and soon forget what they learnt at school except writing and the mechanical parts of reading and arithmetic. With this serious leakage of acquired efficiency, are we deriving an adequate return for our large expenditure on education ? I think not. I would therefore urge upon the Commission the necessity for establishing in towns and cities continuation schools at which attendance should be compulsory to the age of seventeen or eighteen. The amended Education Act gives power to School Committees to establish such classes; it ought to have given the power not to Committees, but to Education Boards. Though the syllabus ignores English grammar as such, I should find little fault with the work placed under the heading of composition if the Department's suggestions as to how what is thereunder prescribed should be done, were deleted from the syllabus. It is because these suggestions encourage superficial and rule-of-thumb treatment of what is of great importance in composition, and especially in the interpretation of English, that I consider them harmful to sound teaching. As my books on English show, I am entirely opposed to dry-as-dust parsing and refined analysis; but I do think that the pupils of primary schools should be taught to classify according to function the words, phrases, clauses, and sentences of English speech, and should learn from this instruction the laws that govern English sentence-structure. In other words, they should be taught the syntax of the language, and the syntax cannot be intelligently taught apart from the classification of the elements of expression. I know from experience that this important work is not beyond the power of the average boy or girl of twelve to fourteen years of age, and I will add that I have little respect for the teaching-power of the man who is unable to make it interesting to his pupils. The course of arithmetic I regard as an excellent one. I think, however, that we might with profit to the pupils add to the prescription of work for S6 sufficient algebra to enable them to solve easy simple equations, and sufficient practical geometry to enf.ble them to draw to scale accurate figures in mensuration-work. With regard to geography, I wish to say that from the wide field of good matter mapped out in the syllabus any intelligent and experienced teacher should be able to draw up an excellent scheme of work for his school if he were allowed to select from the mathematical matter just what he considers his pupils capable of understanding and assimilating. I have already said that during recent years there has been decline in geography in our schools. 1 now add that in my opinion this decline is due not to the actual syllabus of work, but to two sentences in Regulation 42, page 30. They are : " The requirements for this part of the geography (Course B) may be satisfied by the use of geographical readers, prescribed and approved b7, T the Minister of Education, if the readinglessons are explained fully by the aid of maps, and, where possible, of pictures and other accessories." "In the course of the lessons many names of places will be naturally introduced in order to illustrate the principle which it is sought to establish, but it is not intended that the lessons should be used as an exercise of memory." These sentences imply and are interpreted by teachers to mean that the storing of the facts and their explanation in the mind of the pupil is not the chief aim of the study; they lay great stress on the work of the teacher and little on that of the child, which is an entire reversal of the canons of sound educational method. Certainly, it is the teacher's work to explain when explanation is necessary, but as certainly it is the work of the child to store the explanation. Contempt for memory does not make for efficiency in education. It is not true that the teacher has taught when he has spoken, nor that the pupil has learnt when he has heard. History is another subject in which the schools have gone back during recent years, a result that I attribute to two causes : (1) that the subject is not compulsory for the teacher's certificate, and is therefore not known as it ought to be known by teachers, and (2) that it is placed among the optional subjects of the school course, with the advice that " The requirements of this subject shall be held to be satisfied by the use of reading-books embracing the topics named, if explanation of and questions on the subject-matter form part of the lessons in connection with these reading-books." Here, again, little stress is laid on the storing of the facts and explanations : the teacher does the work, and the pupil listens passively or actively according to his mood at the time. lam entirely in favour of nature-study, which has been a joy to me during most of my life; but the nature-study that obtains in most of the schools with which I am familiar is a very mediocre instrument of culture, and it is so because few teachers
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are trained students of nature. Plants and animals, with their marvellous adaptations to their environment, arc among- the most interesting things in nature, but the teacher who is without rtyes to see what there is of interest in them cannot give to his pupils eyes to see it. Moreover, the examination and dissection of plants and animals in the schoolroom is a very poor substitute for the study of them as living things in field and farmyard, and for this kind of study adequate provision has not been made in the training course for teachers. When the present course was about to be inaugurated I submitted to the Department the outline of a course of field-work for trainees, but it was rejected. In my judgment English alone of all the subjects of the training course should be placed before this out-of-door study of nature, and I will add that the best English literature cannot be fully appreciated without a knowledge of nature as she presents herself out of doors. Teachers of rural schools need to be learned, not in Latin and mathematics and theories of psychology, but in English and the book of nature; and to my thinking no teacher's training course is satisfactory that does not put these two in the forefront of study. It is, I think, a distinct loss to primary education that in training colleges degree-work should be placed before the essential equipment for the teaching of the subjects of the primary school. As to instruction in agriculture, I am of opinion that in the primary school we should not go beyond the work that arises out of nature-study and the proper working of the school-garden. This is all that is attempted in the primary schools of Denmark, which in farming and dairy-work is easily first in the world. There is just one other observation I wish to make, and it is this: the classes in city and suburban schools are much too large. It is impossible for a single teacher to do justice to sixty or seventy pupils of unequal acquirements and of greatly- varying natural ability. To the existence of these huge classes much more than to anything else is due the circumstance that clever pupils do not obtain the certificate of proficiency and pass to the secondary schools at a lower age. The remedy is obvious. 2. Mr. Pirani?] Do you not think it possible to make a much better classification of the pupils, say, above the Fourth Standard in the primary schools, so that the clever pupils would not be kept too much in touch with the duller pupils?—Y'es, 1 think the large classes should be divided into two, each under a separate teacher. It does not take long for a man to discover who are the able ones and who are those with a weaker equipment. The brighter ones, I think, should then be placed in a senior division, and taught separately from those who require a good deal of spoon-feeding. A large proportion of every class gets practically none at all, and is all the better for not having it. 3. Mr. With regard to the sole-teacher schools, it has been suggested to this Commission that, instead of giving an assistant when the attendance is between thirty-six and eighty, some kind of assistance should be given when the average attendance is between thirty and fifty, and that the assistant should be a probationer or a pupil-teacher, dispensing with the full assistant until fifty is reached. Do you think that a good idea?—No, Ido not think that would do. 4. If some such assistance could be given between thirty and, say, forty or fifty, would that not afford an opportunity to many country- boys and girls leaving our district high schools to get into the sole-teacher schools for two or three years, and would that not provide a larger supply of a. desirable class of students for our training colleges? —I think that would be a good idea myself. 1 must confess I have myself condemned the pupil-teacher system, but in recent years I have come to realize my mistake. I think the pupil-teacher s} 7 stem fed the adult staff in a way it is not being fed now. A pupil-teacher who had worked for four 3-ears under a competent head master or mistress could at the end of his course, manage a class veiy well, and if he had an opportunity of extending his training course as you suggest for another two years, at the outside, I think it would be an excellent means of adding material for the training college, and, of course, for the schools. 5. Do you think such teachers would be better equipped for our country schools and soleteacher schools from the fact of their having had experience in such schools at the earlier age ? —Yes, early experience in the country schools would be of great advantage to them, undoubtedly. 6. Do you think they would be more content to go into the country, and that, knowing the conditions, they would be more efficient? —Yes; that is one reason why I have myself always tried to select where possible candidates for the positions, even in Dunedin, with that end in view. I knew it must operate beneficially in the end. 7. Then,'if from the district high schools you could get candidates who had passed the Civil Service Examination you would approve of such candidates being placed in those schools of an average attendance of between thirty and forty for two or three years before entering a training college? —Yes, I think that might operate very well. There is one thing that is very necessary if our staff is to be kept up. I notice the Education Boards are in difficulties owing to w 7 ant of applicants for certain positions. Now, one of our aims ought to be, of course, to provide from amongst ourselves a sufficient number of qualified teachers to fill those gaps. If you extend your training course over three years you cannot do it, whereas if you limit it in a measure, say, to two years, you might very soon fill up the gaps that have been made. 8. What is your opinion as to the value of manual training such as paper-folding, brushwork, and drawing?—l have not said anything about that so far because it seems to me that this blobbing with the brush has nothing to do with nature at all except as regards colours. What is done by the pupils now is just about as much unlike anything in nature as one can imagine. Accurate drawing with the pencil, on the other hand, is very fine training. 9. Then, you do not think this manual training is justified by results?— No. Paper-folding, of course, is nice employment for the young children, but it seems to me its real value would come in when they are gaining some knowledge of plain geometry. Paper-work then would be a most useful adjunct. The cardboard-work would lay a most useful foundation for mensuration. 1 think myself mensuration ought to be carried a good deal further than it is at present.
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10. Do you think the students in the Training College set more value upon their university work than upon the training for their life work in the primary schools?—l cannot help having the,Jeeling that the chief aim in the Training College is to get on with university work. I am not very familiar with what goes on, and I can only judge from final results. I think a man ought to be well educated to be a teacher. Above all things, I think he ought to be well educated in. English—highly skilled in the interpretation of the language—the imaginative part of the language. That is where the literary part lies. He should also be well trained in ordinaryarithmetic, geometry, and algebra, but he would not want this superfluity in this department that is aimed at in university work. 11. Mr. Thomson.] Do you believe there should be a review of the syllabus with a view to concentration of effort on essentials? —That is the meaning of what I have already said. Ido not think we should spend quite so much time on several other things I mentioned this morning. 12. Mr. Poland.] With regard to the grading of teachers, I dare say you know the system that is in vogue in Auckland and Wanganui. Speaking generally, do you approve of such a system ?—I dare say the system ought to work out very well, but I have always had rather a dread of systems, because they become so mechanical. I do not believe in over-systematizing. Ido not know the details of the schemes in the North : I only know in a general sort of way. It seems to me that the plan adopted by the Otago people is not altogether a bad one. It is this : First of all, there is the published classification of the Department, which is, of course, the result of marks assigned by the Inspectors. That indicates the judgment of the various district Inspectors as to the qualifications of the several teachers. Then, when the Board is about to make appointments, the list of applicants is handed to the Inspector. The Inspector goes through it and places those whom he considers fit for the positions in order of merit. The Board then acts on the information supplied by 7 the Inspector. I do not, however, see how a national scheme could be managed in that way. Inspectors vary very much as regards attainments, knowledge of the work and of the cost of it, and because one Inspector gives a man certain marks it does not follow that another fnspector would give that student the same marks. For that reason I think a national scheme on those lines would be very difficult. 13. Do you believe the School Committees should have the right to select the teacher from the number of names sent forward by the Board of Education?—No; I have seen many evils result from that. 14. You think the Board, on the recommendation of the Inspector, should make the appointment? —I think when the Inspectors deliberately say, " This man is the best in the list, another man next, and another man next," and so on, the man at the top ought to get the position, and not the man at the bottom. Even in our district the man at the bottom gets the post sometimes, and the man at the top is left out. I think the Committees have too much power, myself. 15. You have had a long experience here as an Inspector with regard to scholarships : what are your views with regard to scholarships? —I think there should be no scholarships between the ages of fourteen and sixteen. I think the free-place system makes ample provisions for those young people. I think we can assume that boys and girls can be of very little use outside until they are sixteen years of age, and I would reserve the scholarships for boys and girls over sixteen years of age. That would be of great advantage to poor people who at that stage of their children's career would benefit by what those children can earn. 16. Mr. Kirk.] Speaking generally, do you concur in the statement that is made that the children now are overexamined? —I do not believe it at all. I think it is a sort of appeal to the multitude. It is an absurd statement coming from an educationist. 17. You have not seen any detrimental results, physical or otherwise, from the examinations you have supervised? —None whatever. I have seen a great deal of good. 18. Mr. Hogben.] What age do you refer to?—I have been thinking for the most part of the children of the primary schools, but I also had in my- mind others whom I have from time to time examined—pupils of secondary schools, pupil-teachers, and so on. 19. Mr. Kirk.] You have frequently visited the school buildings in this district over a great number of years : what have you to say as to the general construction and style of the buildings —are the necessary provisions made for proper ventilation and the other essentials from a health point of view? —I think ample provision is generally made, but I also know the teachers do not utilize what is provided for them. It has been my misfortune many a time to find the windows closed and the air stuffy. There is plenty of ventilation if it is regulated, but when teachers will not take advantage of the ventilation what are you to do 1 20. Do you see any objection to teaching boys and girls in the same classes? —None whatever with regard to primary schools. I think up to a certain age they should be taken together; after that I would separate them. In primary-school work up to the Sixth Standard I have seen no evils arising from it, On the other hand, I have seen much good. 21. Am I right in assuming from your remarks that you think primary and secondary education could woll be under the charge of one body? —Yes, and technical as well. It would tend to prevent this overlapping. I suppose three-fifths of the work is common to the secondary schools and the technical schools. 22. Would you include the University as well? —No, I do not think the Board should have anything to do with the University. 23. You think, then, that the control of the primary, secondary, and technical schools should be in charge of one body only? —Yes. 24. Mr. Wells.] Has it ever come within the knowledge of the Inspectors that teachers who have been placed in the top grade have relaxed in effort and have become less efficient than they were? —I am sorry to say " Yes "to that question. 25. Then the graded list does not afford altogether a satisfactory basis? —Precisely. The diffbulty is to find a proper basis.
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26. When you referred to the applications being referred to the Inspector did you mean that they were referred to the Chief Inspector or to the Inspectors as a body? —They are referred to the Inspectors, and the Inspectors do not forget the fact you mentioned just now in assigning the positions in their lists. 27. These applications have continually to be considered, I presume?— Yes. 28. Are not the Inspectors usually scattered over the country? —No, the applications are considered at the monthly meetings of the Board. If the meetings occur more frequently it is always arranged that the Inspectors shall be here. Almost all the year round four are here. Only on one or two occasions have we had as few as three of them here. 29. Suppose the teachers w-ere considered by the Inspectors sitting as a Board once a year or once in two years, and the qualifications and work carefully considered and weighed against one another, would it not be possible to draw up a list in order of merit which would be of greater assistance than what you have now?—l dare say it would, but it would mean an infinite amount of trouble, because it would mean, amongst other things, that those who had somewhat declined during the year would have to be put down. I should not like to undertake it myself. 30. Still, it might lead to reward of merit? —1 think, so far as districts are concerned, merit is thoroughly recognized, because things are considered every month for the Board's information, and the best man comes to the top. "if. Have you ever in your experience known the Board to make any alteration in the order suggested by the Inspectors?—On one or two occasions I have, but, as a rule, the Board does not make any change. 32. Anything of that sort must have a very discouraging and damaging effect upon the profession? —Yes, it must have. I think, myself, it should be left to the Inspectors, and they should be made responsible. But the thing is so seldom done here that it is hardly worth mentioning. , 33. You spoke of the large number of education districts —-thirteen in all—as being a drawback. What would you consider a reasonable number?—l do not know the country sufficiently well to give a judgment, but it has always seemed to me that the schools on the west coast might be connected with those on the east coast : for example, I think Canterbury might include a part of Westland. Then, South Canterbury- seems to me to be too small a district :it could be included in Canterbury or Otago. It does seem to me that thirteen education districts for a little country like New- Zealand is altogether more than is necessary. 34. There are at present three term examinations in the year which the head teacher has to conduct. Do you think they might be reduced to two with advantage?— For my part I would examine three times a year. Certainly they are not overexamined in our schools nowadays. 35. You spoke of continuation classes and making the attendance compulsory. Do you think public opinion would support you there?—l think something more might be done than has been attempted. Public opinion has not been tested, and the amended Act is practically a deadletter, because no one Iras attempted to carry it out. Tarn not sure that it will be carried out. It certainly will not be carried out by Committees. 36. Do you think any economy could be effected by centralizing as regards the country schools? —It depends entirely upon the character of the country. Otago is so hilly that it would be very difficult to do it here. I can imagine it would work very well in Canterbury, north and south, and in some parts of Auckland. I am strongly in favour of the idea, given favourable conditions. 37. Do you consider the salaries paid to assistants in the district high schools are sufficient? —They, have not seemed to me quite what they should bo. Of course, some of the assistants sent there are inexperienced, and are not worth more than they get. On the other hand, there are some worth a great deal more than they get. T think, if you get experienced men for that kind of work they should be paid not less than £300. Ido not know exactly what the salaries are now. 38. Mr. Pirani.} With regard to the classification of teachers, do you think it would be possible to classify teachers under a system something like this [produced]? There are a hundred marks given, and it is divided up into so-many marks for different qualifications?— Under the old scheme adopted by the Department those headings did not appear, and yet those things were always taken into consideration when the marks were assigned, such as personality, attention to environment, to discipline, organization, and so on. It is difficult, of course, to assign marks for personality. I should judge personality from the atmosphere the teacher created in his school. 39. If a system of this kind were introduced and regular marks assigned under each heading, would it not give an opportunity to the teacher to make up his deficiencies in these special respects? —I think so. If he knew in which respect he fell short he would be likely to make a special effort to qualify- in that direction. It might be a good thing for a number of teachers to know under what heading their qualifications were judged. 40. You consider the enforcement of compulsory attendance at continuation classes is mistakenly left in the hands of Committees, fs it not that the request has first to come from the Committees for the enforcement —the initiative lies with them ?—No. 41. Are you not aware that in Wanganui District something like ten Committees have already asked the Board to bring compulsory continuation classes into effect?—l have heard the Committees have met, but has the Board done it? 42. Then you are not aware that the Wanganui Board has already compulsory attendance at continuation classes in operation? —No. 43. Are you aware the Minister has already recognized the regulations under which that enforced attendance has been brought about ? —No. It seems to me the people in the locality would object, and the members of the Committees do not like to incur any hostility. I should say the Board should get the consent of the Committee.
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44. As a matter of fact, under the Act the Committee must first ask for the continuation classes to be compulsorily attended, but there is nothing in the Act to prevent the Board from going to the Committee and proposing this compulsory attendance, and if then the Committee expresses its willingness, would it not have equal legal force?— Yes, I think it should begin with the Board and proceed in that way. 45. Mr. Wells.] Do you consider that in rapidly growing districts additional assistance is given quickly enough? —No. I do not know what is done at present, as I have been out of office for some time, but 1 feel sure the teachers have frequently to wait too long before they get assistance. 46. You think it would be an improvement in the case of schools where the attendance is rapidly growing if additional help were given at once on the certificate of the Inspector that he considers the attendance is going to last? —Yes, I think the Board ought to have power to do that on the recommendation of the Inspector. 47. In the case of a teacher of a large school who has outlived his best work, do you think it should be made possible for him to take a less onerous position without interfering with his superannuation ? —I should like to see something of that sort. There are some men who wear out young. They do excellent work up to, say, forty or fifty, and I think they deserve such consideration for that work. 48. Mr. Hogben.} Would you make the school reading-book the starting-point in naturestudy? —No, I do not think we want any stud} 7 from the reading-book. Having done such a lot of field-work nyself I know how the thing grows upon one. One sees little at first, but gradually begins to see more and more. There is nothing like going straight to nature. There is no system in it so far as the child is concerned, but the teacher has his system all the same. The eye needs training as w 7 ell as the hand. The chief aim is to create a love for the beautiful things of nature. 49. Would you object to brush-drawing if the brush were used for the same purpose as the pencil—namely, to represent natural objects?—l should not then have the same objection to it. 50. Do you not think it is a good idea to train the colour-sense of the child? —I do not think colour-sense can be well trained in that way. I think they should be taken amongst the plants and the colours of nature. That is the place to study colours. 51. Do you not think the reproduction of the colours assists greatly in the creation of the colour-sense? —I think the closer y 7 ou get to nature the more you will see. 52. You have taken a great interest in the establishment of school libraries. Do you favour the extension of that principle—the establishment of libraries for the several classes of the schools? —Yes, that was my object when I began the work here, and in order, that the teachers might have as little trouble as possible in selecting suitable books T drew up a circular and a catalogue. It provides books suitable for very little children and right through the school. I need hardly say I lay great stress on reading, with understanding, of course. The habit of reading is an important thing. That is what I would like to see inculcated. I think that one of the most disappointingthings in connection with education, not only in New Zealand, but elsewhere, is that it does not seem to develop a taste for reading. It does not develop the habit of reading. 53. Then, having intimated that you are in agreement to hand over to the constituted authority the control of primary, secondary, and technical education, does that assume in your mind the continuance of the present system of election, or have you given any consideration to that question? —I think we should need to make the Boards a little larger, so as to have suitable Committees. lam not sure that the Boards should be elected as they are now. I think it is very important, when there are two or three classes of schools under the same Board, that there ought to be on the Board some specialists, and therefore I should say- the Government ought to be allowed to nominate certain members of that Board. 54. Are you acquainted with the system in England known as " co-option " —that is, the authority can nominate to the position men of training and men who have given special study to these phases of education? With the adoption of that system, do you not think that a class of men who do not offer themselves for election would be available? —Certainly. I should not offer my services under a system of election at all, but if I was asked by a competent authority to sit on such a Board I should do so. Angus Marshall examined on oath. (No. 34.) 1. The What is your position?—l am at present Director of the Dunedin Technical School. I had two years' experience in the Training College as a teacher, I have been sole teacher of a country school, headmaster of two-teacher schools, first assistant of a district high school, and several grades of assistantship. I was in the Normal Practising School, and afterwards headmaster of that school. 2. How long have you been Director of the Technical School?— Sixteen years. During part of that time I also held some of my other positions. I also spent several years in the University classes. I have given some consideration, since the Commission was set up, to the subjects that the Commission is called upon to deal with. The matter of the Council of Education is one of the first recommendations that should demand the attention of any Commission. I am. not going into the question of the constitution of that Council, but it seems to me that with the number of educationists of great expert knowledge and experience likely to be retiring within the next few years, and others who are prepared while in public life to give their experience, members could be obtained from different parts of New Zealand with no other expense than actual travellingexpenses when going to and from the meetings. I will refer first of all to university education; and I may say that I practically owe ray position to the University, and, although my remarks will only be in regard to points that require amending, it does not follow that they are the only points worthy of consideration. Some years ago it w-as possible for a student or teacher engaged during the day to attend the science or mathematic classes during the night. Under the present
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arrangement of the time-table that is not possible. From my own department there are several students who did remarkably well in science, and were prepared to go to the University. They are .employed at the Hillside Government Railway Workshops, and are debarred from pursuing their studies at the University because these classes are held during the day. I have already recommended to more than one authority that science classes, such as physics, chemistry, mathematics, might be held in alternate years at night. The remark may be made that it is outside the Government's powers of recommendation, but I notice in looking through the cost of education that the cost of higher education to the Government is £36,000 a year. It might well be made a condition of any grant that certain classes are in alternate years held in the evenings. I would go further than that. At Home for a number of years one of the conditions of appointment of a professor is that he shall give two or three popular lectures during his term of office. There is no need for me to say that the University is far removed from the popular, and I may say that the recent developments in the constitution of University Councils enables me to indicate that were some such change made in the course of information given it would do much to bring the University into line with popular requirements. It might be possible to go further and institute extension lectures, [ need not enlarge upon that. It is carried on in some of the best educational countries in the world. There is also the further point of scholarships. It seems to me that scholarships are fairly well provided at present by allowing all who gain credit in the scholarship examinations free education at the University, and if there is, as seems likely to be from past discussions, any extension of that it seems to me that the standard of Matriculation Examination must be somewhat raised. There is one other point: There is a tendency to enact nowadays that very weakness that has been experienced in the past in the primary schools—namely, increase in the size of the classes. I do not wish to make any comment on the local University, but it would surprise you to know the number of students the professors are attempting to teach in the popular classes. In secondary schools, we have the high schools, strictly so called. They cost probably £75,000 a year. In regard to them, I would first of all say that, although we have many excellent teachers in those schools, there is no practical compulsion for the training of those teachers. We are met year after year with the position that primary-school pupils are not prepared for secondary-school work. The weakness appears to me to be here : the primary-school teachers carry the work of the pupil to a certain standard, and secondary-school teachers who know nothing about the primary-school teaching carry on the work without knowing the foundation, and they begin to erect a palatial building on the side of the foundation and not on the continuous structure. You will find that that is so, because in secondary schools where primary-school teachers have been successful in gaining a position the complaint is not the same. Again, in connection with the secondary schools, it should be laid down that a pupil once entering should be compelled to attend for a certain minimum period. You will find that of the pupils who enter the high schools 28 pei cent, leave either during or before the end of the first year; another 28 per cent, leave during or before the end of the second year. You therefore have more than half the pupils who enter a secondary school leaving before the end of their second year. Experience shows that a pupil going to a secondary school should attend for at least three years, and there is no question about it, there is no use a pupil going to one of these schools unless he is going to attend for at least two years. I maintain that nearly a third of the money spent on secondary education returns practically very little, if any, beneficial result. I should feel inclined to say that some such system as we have tried to adopt in the technical school should be introduced —namely, the insistence of a bond or guarantee under penalty enacted from the parent of each child who enters that the child shall attend for at least two years. The syllabus of the work in the high schools has been to some extent determined by the Matriculation Examinations. One cannot blame the high or secondary schools, because after all they fulfil the functions of preparing for the University. I would also like to refer to the scholarship question. I think that we who live in the cities should leave the scholarship funds as far as possible for the benefit of those who live in the country. We have the benefit of location and position, and so on, and it seems to me that there is not sufficient to make allowance for books from the scholarship grant to country children. In regard to the Technical School, I will deal with the day school first. The great drawbcak is the dearth or scarcity of teachers or persons to give instruction in trade or mechanical classes. It is almost impossible to get any one of education or average powers of expression to explain a trade or profession they themselves know. In connection witb"this there seems to me to be an absence of provision for the training for commercial or domestic or general technical subjects. Of course, it is work that Is in its transition stage. My remarks with regard to the high school apply also to the time that should be spent by children in the technical school. There is no use a pupil entering the day technical school course unless he is going to stay two years, and a pupil should not be admitted on any account unless a guarantee is given that he will remain at least one year. In Dunedin we get a written guarantee, and do not admit them unless they are prepared to stay at least one year, and we give them to understand that they should stay two years. With regard to the day technical schools, it seems to me that a slightly lower standard of proficiency might well be accepted for pupils, especially those taking up trade classes or domestic work. For instance, in this present year we have perhaps three or four pupils who specially distinguish themselves in hand-work and oookery. In every case those pupils hold competency certificates, or were over the age when they obtained their proficiency certificates. There is a matter in connection with the day technical schools that I do not quite appreciate. Payment is made upon the number of hours each pupil attends, while in the secondary schools payment is made on the average attendance. In the day technical school, if a pupil does not attend 800 hours payment is made on 600; if he does not attend 600 hours payment is marie on 400 hours; and if he does not attend 400 hours payment is made on 200 hours. I think it would simplify the returns, and it would seem to me to be more in
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accordance with the spirit of the thing, if the payment was made on the average attendance—if you like, with a minimum attendance to qualify. With regard to the evening school, there is one" large class that has never, in my opinion, been provided for as it should be—namely, those who leave the primary school before passing the Sixth Standard. You will find that about 51 per cent, of those who pass the Fourth Standard never pass the Sixth Standard. What becomes of them? At present we get very few of those, and it seems to me that if we are going to have compulsory continuous education this is where we should begin. Experience proves to me that plumbers and others who come for tuition are totally unprepared simply because they have not the education. With regard to the question of trade apprenticeship, whether or not they should be compelled to take a course at the technical school, it seems to me that provision should be made that employers are bound to relieve their apprentices of their work at the end of the day and begin by giving those boys two or three hours' instruction every week of compulsory education. It may be said that this instruction should be made compulsory during the day. Apart, however, from the question of master and servant involved, you would be unable to cope with the problem if the system was started straight off. But if facilities were given for these apprentices to attend three hours a week, the time could be increased, and the compulsory classes introduced afterwards. There is a third class —namely, girls. One might say, seeing that military training is compulsory for boys, that girls should be compelled, and I think it would be wise, to spend one evening a week, between the ages of fifteen and eighteen, learning a domestic subject in the technical school. I think those who leave the primary school before they pass the Sixth Standard should be compelled to reach a certain standard before their education ceases, and certainly girls within the city boundary should be compelled to take a domestic course. With respect to the question of the Boards on control, I may say that one of the recommendations of my Board at the last meeting was that, in order to prevent any tendency of overlapping, it would be well if the various educational institutions within the city were combined under one controlling authority, but each institution to exercise control over its own schools. Ido not see how you can well get away from that. The constitution of each school is different, and it is almost necessary- to have specialists on the various Boards. I need not argue the point whether you can get specialists on one main Board that can govern the different institutions. Probably the experience of Christchurch, where the Museum, Library, Boys' and Girls' High Schools, and the University- are all under one Board, might be an advantage, but even there they practically delegate their powers to different Committees or constituted bodies. Mention has been sometimes made that overlapping could be prevented. In my experience of primary, secondary, and technical school work I do not know that I have found overlapping to exist in the strict sense of the term. The term " overlapping " is sometimes a misnomer. It may be either revision or duplication of work. It is necessary when you take over a change of course or a school of pupils to revise on past work or consolidate to some extent, and it is impossible to prevent that there shall be some similar work in the various institutions. You must dovetail in some way. The term " overlapping " has even been used in that sense where you have to revise or lay a foundation for continuous work, and duplication does not strictly take place along the same lines. You may have commercial work, but it is carried on at a more elementary stage or with a different object in view. There are one or two other points that might be incidentally mentioned. In the country districts rural classes, such as in wool-classing, are absolutely necessary, but it has to be remembered that these classes are not required every year. The institution I am connected with has carried on rural classes in a great many centres throughout the education district, but after one or two years in these districts the number of pupils seeking instruction in one particular subject has been exhausted, and we have to wait until another generation comes on before again entering upon that subject. The same applies to tailors' cutting classes. There is no need to make the classes permanent. Two or three years afterwards there may be another set of pupils ready, and the class could be restarted. It seems to me that the recent provision of asking the secondary assistant, very often inexperienced, to undertake all the high-school work has not been an advantage to the high schools generally. I suppose there should be some limitation to the time the headmaster devotes to the secondary work, but the regulation seems to have gon§ to the other extreme in providing that the secondary assistant shall practically undertake all the work. 3. Mr. Wells.] Do you mean to say it is difficult here for a man working during the day to secure university education in the eveaing? —Yes, it is almost impossible for him to get to a science or a mathematics class. 4. A teacher is handicapped in attempting to take his degree?— Yes, teachers and others. Two of my young men who got 90 per cent, in a most stringent examination in physics were prepared to go to the University, and I was prepared to recommend them for free tuition, were barred from carrying out their desire because the classes were held before 5 o'clock. 5. In Auckland the whole course can be taken after 5 o'clock?—lt used to be so here also. 6. The lectures in Auckland are duplicated?—lt is not so here. 7. Have you any oversight of the manual work in the primary schools?— None whatever. 8. The grant for manual work does not pass through your hands? —No. The Education Board has control of the manual work in the primary schools. 9. You are not under the control of the Education Board?— Yes, but we' are associated classes, with a Board of Management. 10. Do you think the time has come when masters should allow 7 apprentices time off in the afternoon for attendance at the technical school? —I think apprentices themselves should first give some evidence that they are anxious to attend such classes. I have suggested that they should begin by attending one or two evenings in the week, and that it should be made illegal for their employers to have them working on those nights. Ido not think we are in a position to provide instruction for apprentices if they asked for it during the day.
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11. Have you many classes in the Technical School where identical work is done as in the High School? —I do not know of any, except perhaps mathematics and science. You must have a .certain amount of that in every- technical school. 12. With that exception your work is not like that carried on in the High School?— Not in the least. There is no overlapping in that respect. 13. Mr. Thomson.] Have you any knowledge of the working of the Council of Education in Victoria? —Not personally. 14. Have you any special reason to put forward why we should have a Council of Education? -—My reasons are general. I think the work this Commission is undertaking and the experts they are examining would be met to a great extent by a commission of expert men who would discuss the point. Generally a great many subjects are discussed by institutes and training-college members which could be just as well discussed, and with more profit, by a Council of Education which could send on recommendations and confer with the Inspector-General and Minister of Education. 15. Perhaps it would be better to call it an Advisory Council? —That is so. It is only a matter of name. 16. Do you think it would be a good thing that the constitution of that Council should be such that it would consist of Inspectors of each education district in conference with the Minister of Education ? —No, I am not in favour of that. I think you can still have the Inspectors' Conference and have a body of men drawn from retired Inspectors, retired teachers, and business men who have taken part on Education Boards. 17. May not such a body desire to direct the education policy in a direction that was not in accordance with popular opinion I—Theyl—They would be a Board of advice, and w r e are not proposing to necessarily give them supreme power. 18. Do you not think that the Inspectors are more in touch with the people and the wants and requirements of each locality, and are better qualified to give advice than any one else ?—I have already said that I assume the Council provided by the Inspectors' Conference will still exist —that the Conference of Inspectors will go on, in other words. 19. Do you not think that will give rise to a conflict of opinion ? —No. The Minister would get expert advice from the Council, and also from the Inspectors, but he is not bound to adopt both or either. 20. You said that the matriculation standard should be raised ?—-Yes. What I think is this : You are going to give free education at the University, and you must have some examination, not necessarily competitive. If you are going to admit to free education all who matriculate, the present matriculation standard is not high enough, because all those who pass the examination are not always competent to go to the study of university subjects. 21. Mr. Davidson.] You get into your school numbers of boys and girls who have done woodwork and cookery in the primary schools? —Yes. 22. Do you frequently get boys who have not done woodwork during the primary-school course?— Yes; I suppose very nearly half of them. Perhaps a little over one-third have not done woodwork. 23. How do you find the boy who has not done manual work'in the primary school compare with the boy who has? —I am not prepared to speak very definitely, but I think I can safely say there is very little difference. When we put them on woodwork it is taken up from the very beginning, and I do not think there is much difference between those who have not and those who have previously had a course of it. We begin with a new course. 24. Do you think it is unnecessary that the boys in the primary schools should do woodwork before leaving the primary schools? —It is a question of whether or not they will have an opportunity afterwards of getting the instruction. Generally speaking, I should prefer that the time given to woodwork should be devoted to mathematics and drawing. If that was the case I would be prepared to do more with them in woodwork than they are prepared to do in the year or two of training as at present. 25. If the continuation classes in the technical school were made compulsory, and boys who had a bias towards woodwork had the option of taking it up after leaving the primary school, do you think woodwork should be cut out of the primary-school syllabus?—lt could be cut out from the course of pupils who will have the opportunity afterwards; but I look on woodwork as a kind of change of education. I think if pupils could possibly attend the technical school, or intend to attend, they would not lose much by omitting woodwork in the primary school and taking up drawing instead. 26. Would similar remarks apply to cookery in regard to girls? Do you find that girls who have not taken cookery in the primary schools equal to the girls who have? —No. I think some of the girls who have taken cookery have a kind of bias for it, perhaps due to the introduction of it in the primary school, and I would be in favour of extending the opportunities for doing domestic work both in the primary and secondary schools. 27. You would give every girl pupil in Standards V and VI an opportunity to take cookery during their primary-school course? —Yes. I am assuming, of course, that they get a certain amount of practical training there. I do not think that so much has been done in New Zealand as in the Australian States and America. In Victoria they cook dinners and sell them to the public. In that way the pupils get a much more thorough training in domestic work than they can under the system in vogue in New Zealand. 28. Have you many returns to make in connection with your classes in the Technical School? X have a few returns"to make, but Ido not know how you could obviate that to any extent, so long as payments are made on the present basis. I may say, however, that a great part of my time is taken up by irregular attendance and watching the accuracy of the returns. It. may be that
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we have not got a proper system. If we were paid on the average attendance it would simplify matters. For evening classes, if a lump sum was provided for each school it would save a great deal - in the way of checking returns. 29. Could you suggest any way of reducing the clerical work and simplifying those returns? —Not without an alteration in the regulations. 30. The Chairman.] With this suggested alteration would it be possible for the Department to get all it wants without resorting to the elaborate returns you are now called upon to furnish 1 Ido not think it is a fair question to ask me to amend the regulations. I believe it is possible to considerably simplify the regulations, and to trust to the authorities a little more perhaps than the Department does at present. After all, the Department has to rely on the authorities for a good deal of information, and it would be much more satisfactory if there was some other basis of arriving at the amount of capitation to which we are entitled. 31. You have suggested a course by which the payments to your institution could be altered with advantage I —l think it would be quite possible to make a considerable reduction in the returns if a little more responsibility were placed on the heads of the school, and a little more reliance upon the honesty of people. Some change is necessary before you can simplify the present returns. 32. Mr. Pirani.] You say it is an advantage for the girls to take cookery in the primary schools because it gives them a liking for taking the higher and further course in the Technical School. If it is an advantage for girls to do that, do you not think also it is an advantage for boys to take woodwork with the same object? —In the case of girls, they practise cookery 7at school, and when they go home they are interested in the subject. They are in touch with cookery at home. The same does not apply to boys. In every case it is a girl's life-work to have this training, and it is necessary, whether she likes it or not, she should take the course, of her own accord or be compelled to do so. 33. Do you not think it is an advantage to a boy for the rest of his life to be able to use a hammer and strike a nail? —I do. 34. Do you not know many grown men who can no more use a hammer than fly?— No. 35. Do you not know that instruction in woodwork includes instruction in drawing?—l do. 36. Do y 7 ou not think that the instruction in drawing that is given in connection with woodwork is to an enormous extent the best instruction a boy can get?— No. He probably gets one lesson a week in drawing and woodwork combined. I maintain that were the time that is taken up in travelling to and from the woodwork class devoted to drawing, it would ultimately, as regards those boys who afterwards take up woodwork, be more beneficial. 37. Do you know how much drawing a boy at school does in the week outside the woodwork drawing—say a boy in the Fifth or Sixth Standard ? —Yes. It depends on the school. Two hours and a half, probably. 38. And probably three-quarters of an hour of the woodwork time is taken up with drawing? —Yes. 39. Do you not think that should be sufficient for a boy in the week?— No. He does not get the drawing I am referring to. He is not getting that facility in the use of instruments, the quick adaptation. He would know more about actual woodwork, but in his foundation for the work, from experience, he is not so well or no better equipped. 40. What sort of drawing does he get in the primary school outside his woodwork drawing? —It is all provided for. 41. Mr. Hogben.} Can you suggest any basis on which a lump-sum payment to technical schools could be calculated? —Yes; I do not see why it should not be some proportionate payment according to a population basis, or the equipment provided 42. If a district provided a very small number of classes and had a very small attendance, w-ould you give that district a grant in accordance with its population I—l1 —I am merely suggesting that as one way of working it. I have already declined to say what the regulation should be. It is quite possible to make some payment in proportion to the number of classes. You have to provide a certain number of teachers. It does not matter whether there are only ten or there are twenty-four in a class, it is necessary to provide a teacher for two hours in the evening to teach that class. It does not matter what the size of the class is, the teacher gets the same remuneration. -^ 43. In a case of that kind would you give a minimum number of pupils before providing a salary for a class? —Then you would have to discriminate between subjects, because in some subjects you will always have a small number of students. It is a difficult problem : lam admitting that. 44. The Chairman.] Do you think that the age of pupils who should compulsorily attend the continuation classes should be from fourteen to seventeen years? —It would be from the age at which they leave school up to a certain age. 45. Do you not think the school-life age is too short to enable pupils to get that failgrounding which is necessary- for after-life? —I do not think there is anything like education, and from the time at which a pupil leaves school up to the age of seventeen education should continue. 46. When from 19 per cent, to 30 per cent, leave school after the Third or Fourth Standard there is evidently a leakage which should be prevented?— Yes. 47. They should either go out from the primary school with a proficiency certificate or continue from fourteen to seventeen at the continuation classes ? —To seventeen or eighteen years of age. 48. Is it not a fact that voluntary classes suffer by comparison w-ith compulsory classes all over the world? —That is so.
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49. Assuming for the sake of argument that the personnel of the Council of Education were to include the Minister of Education, the Inspector-General of Schools, representatives of the several bodies who administer national education apart from the universities, plus such persons as you describe as educational experts not actively practising their profession, and such other persons as take an active interest in education and whose opinions are worth having, would not such a body be more likely to bring about continuity in policy and uniformity of regulations than the system now adopted?— Yes. 50. And, therefore, believing that such results would follow from such a course, you recommend the setting-up of such a Council?—l say I think it is an essential point in our system. George William Campbell Macdonald examined on oath. (No. 35.) 1. The Chairman.] What is your position in the service? —I am headmaster of the Macandrew Road School, and have been in the service of the Otago Education Board for twenty-five years. f was trained as a teacher in Victoria before f came here. The Otago Educational Institute set up three committees for the purpose of considering the various matters to be inquired into by the Commission, and three representatives were appointed to speak for those committees. The section I am intrusted with is that dealing with administration and finance. The first question we took up was that of the reduction of the number of Education Boards. We consider that there should be four Boards of Education for the Dominion, coterminous with the University and training college centres. Our object in advocating this is that we believe there would be great reduction in expenditure on administration. For instance, one office would do for each of these four Boards, whereas now we have a number of offices. There would be one Chief Inspector and one Secretary, whereas now we have a number of Chief Inspectors and a number of head Secretaries. In looking at the question of the reduction of the cost of administration we find from the reports that in Auckland, which is the largest district, the percentage of cost of administration of the whole is 39 per cent., whilst in Grey it is 7'B per cent. —exactly double. It was considered by the committee that that pointed to the fact that cost of administration could be very much reduced by having four Boards instead of the number we have at the present time. Then, again, we considered that these Boards should control high schools, technical schools, and primary schools —the whole of the education outside the universities in the different centres. A point that influenced us considerably was that we were more likely to get a Dominion promotion scheme. There is a very strong feeling amongst the teachers that we ought to have a Dominion scheme of promotion based on lines somewhat similar to that in operation in Auckland at the present time. We know that a large number of the Board in New Zealand now are practically a close corporation : I mean that a teacher has very great difficulty in removing from one education district to another at the present time. Teachers consider that it would be of great advantage to the service if there were greater facilities for removing from the service of one Board to that of another, or from one part of New Zealand to another. Very often a teacher in Otago may find that the climate does not suit him, whereas the climate of Auckland may suit him very well. At the present time it is very difficult to get from one district to another, whereas if we had a promotion scheme for the Dominion it would be easier to interchange teachers. We think that this promotion scheme under the four Boards could be worked in this manner : the Board should consist of two Inspectors and two representatives from the teachers of each Board, presided over by the Inspector-General, and that Board should grade the teachers at certain fixed periods. Then if a teacher wished to remove from one district to another the Boards would have the grading of that teacher before them. The next point we considered was the proposed Local Government Bill, in which local rating was advocated for a number of things, and, amongst others, education. The Bill provides that the Dominion shall be divided into twenty-four districts. The opinion of the committee was that in any national scheme of education all required funds should come out of the consolidated revenue, and should not depend on the power of local rating. One of our reasons is that we think Education differs from all the other Departments. The other Departments are mainly purely commercial, whereas Education is distinctly non-commercial. We would rather see the revenue come from the consolidated revenue. Again, of course, as I have alreadyindicated, we advocate a reduction in the number of Education Boards; but if you have the Dominion divided into twenty-four educational districts or Councils, you would, of course, increase the number of Boards, and that we think would be a weakness. The question of scholarships was the next question discussed by us, and the conclusion-we came to was that all Junior National, Education Board Scholarships, and Free Place Examinations should be abolished, and the money so saved should be spent in paying the lodging-expenses of those children whom the Inspectors in conference with the head teachers consider worthy, and who require to live away from home in order to attend a secondary school. There might be some misapprehension as to that portion which says "in conference with the head teacher." We consider that under a scheme where secondary and technical schools would be under the one governing body that scholarships might be awarded in the technical as well as the secondary schools, and that so far as the hand-work classes we have now in our primary schools are concerned, the head teachers might probably be of assistance to the Inspectors in advising as to whether children were better fitted to go through a technical-school course or a high-school course. We considered another point that has already been referred to in previous evidence —namely, that there should be a minimum term of tuition at these schools and that it should be definitely defined. It is known that a number of pupils enter upon the secondary course and drop away before any real benefit seems to accrue from it. We next considered the question of free books. Whilst not in favour of free books being given to the pupils, yet, should such be thought advisable, we should recommend that the reader that forms the basis of a child's training in English should be his own property. Other readers, atlases, arithmetics, drawing-books, &c, may be supplied by the Government for use in schools
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only. At the present time there is a large number of free books provided, and these books are not used. You will find a very large number stored in the schools. The children prefer to buy their own books, because then they can take them out of the schools. This seems to us quite an unnecessary expense, and useless too. I may say there was a good deal of difference of opinion in regard to free arithmetic books, but a majority was in favour of putting them on the free list. A question that the committee considered and debated for a considerable time was education in the backblocks. We strongly urge the desirability of conveying pupili in a country district to a convenient centre. We know that in other countries, especially America, a great deal has been done in this direction, and we think a great deal more could be done in New Zealand. We think that in some places where a large number of small schools have been established this duplication could have been avoided had the pupils been conveyed to a central school. In America they have special carriages for taking children to school, and really those who are so conveyed to school are far more regular in attendance and are far more safely conveyed—l mean they do not suffer during wet and inclement weather. The result is that far more efficient work is being done than ever could be obtained by means of these small schools. That seems to the committee to be one of the ways in which the backblocks difficulty to a certain extent could be overcome. Of course, you will understand that we quite realize there are certain districts where it is impossible to bring this system into operation. There always will be small schools, but we say that where the conditions are favourable this should be done. For instance, it is done at Tapanui, in Otago, where some forty pupils are conveyed daily, and it is considered by those who know the district that this could be done very well about Lawrence and near Oamaru, Maheno, and Hampden. It was considered that if this could be done in one centre it might be found there were a number of other cases where it could be done in New Zealand. It is a question of administration and finance. In grouping these small schools to a centre, too, you would not only gain in the matter of improved efficiency, but you would get better staffing and better teachers for them. For instance, the hand-work training that is not given in the very small schools would then be given in these central schools. We consider that the Inspectors of the Dominion should be under the Central Department with respect to the interpretation of the regulations and of the syllabus, and that a Dominion scale of salaries, which should be such as to attract the best teachers in the profession, should be adopted for Inspectors, and that the four Chief Inspectors should be responsible for the examination of all secondary schools and district high schools. You will understand that we advocate four Boards, and if that idea is adopted there will, of course, be four Chief Inspectors. The Commission may wonder why we should take up the question of a Dominion scale of salaries for Inspectors. One of the complaints that teachers have throughout the service—and it is very pronounced in the North Island —is that the Boards appoint as junior Inspectors young men of limited experience, and so on, and, of course, they naturally remain in the inspectorate. They are appointed at a low salary, whereas it is considered that the salary of an Inspector, who is practically over the teacher, should certainly be above the salary that any teacher gets. We feel that the inspectorate should be filled from the ranks of the teachers, from those who have had experience, and that the salary should be commensurate with the work an Inspector has to do. In regard to the point that the four Chief Inspectors should be responsible for the examination of secondary and district high schools, at the present time we have Inspectors from the Department inspecting these schools, and we contend that our own Inspectors under the Board could overtake this work, and that there would not be the overlapping that there is at the present time. 2. Do you include technical schools in that recommendation? —No. I think that many of the branches in technical schools are of such a nature that you would require special Inspectors for them. 1 refer to such subjects as plumbing, &c. There is one point I missed in regard to one Board controlling primary, secondary, and technical education. At the present time the secondary teachers in our district high schools have little or no outlook. There is a certain point they can reach as secondary teachers, carrying a salary of about £240 a year. It was considered that if the secondary schools were ujider the Education Board the outlook of these teachers would be widened, as they would then have positions open to them in any of these three branches of education. This would remove, too, one of the objections, shall I call it, that is sometimes urged to appointments to secondary schools —that the teachers are appointed on account of their academic training and not on account of teaching experience. We also considered the question of the examination of pupils, and it was decided that in the interests of the children ,the number of compulsory periodical examinations by the headmaster in each year should be reduced from three, as at present, to two. When I refer to these three periodical examinations, I wish you to understand that the results have to be tabulated; they have to be put in the register for submission to the Inspectors and for reference purposes. It was considered that two of these tabulated examinations should be sufficient during the year. That does not mean for a moment that there are only going to be two examinations in the school in the year. For instance, in pretty nearly every class the teachers hold a monthly class examination. We consider the three examinations entail unnecessary work on the pupils, because the class teachers, when they know the headmaster's examination is coming on, begin to revise their work some time before the examination ; and we consider that the abolition of the third examination that is demanded now would allow the pupils to do extra work during the time that it now occupies. In addition, the class examinations that are held pretty well monthly cover all that is required in the way of examinations. With regard to proficiency certificates, we think that the examination for proficiency certificates should be uniform throughout the Dominion, and that the responsibility of examining for same should be placed on the Inspectors. I may say that this is done in Otago. The Headmasters' Association in Dunedin consulted the Secretaries of Institutes in all the other provinces, and we found that the practice differs throughout New Zealand. In some places the headmaster's examination
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is taken in a number of subjects and the Inspector takes only some of them. We consider that the leaving-certificate, which is to a large extent the certificate of admission to the public service ,-r-at any rate, to the Railways—should be uniform throughout New Zealand, so that the children in all provinces would be treated alike, and on that account the responsibility of examining for these certificates should rest with the Inspector. There is one matter I would like to bring up here, and in regard to that I am going to express my personal opinion, but I can say that I know a very large number of teachers agree with me. I wish to speak about physical training. I am of opinion that at least half an hour daily should be devoted to physical training in our schools. By " physical training " I mean breathing-exercises and exercises with the limbs —head, arms, body, legs, and so on. If that is done every day I think the health of the pupils and the strength of the pupils will be very much increased. I heard it advocated this morning that continuation pupils should have one hour a week at least in the gymnasium. I consider that an hour a week given to gymnastic or physical training is just about as valuable as giving a dinner one day a week. If w 7 e are going to take up physical training it is far more beneficial to give some definite training daily. Intimately connected with the question of physical training is the question of adequate recreation-areas. I think there should be a unit of area per pupil for recreation similar to the present unit of area allowed per pupil in floor-space. We find the schools growing and the playgrounds being attached for school buildings. I will take the Musselburgh School, for instance, which has grown and grown very largely. We find new buildings are going up and the recreation-area is being covered with these new buildings, but we never hear of the recreationarea being extended. It is gradually lessening, although the number of pupils is increasing. Therefore, if we want to prevent physical deterioration, especially in our cities, we ought, I consider, to provide that there shall be a definite unit of area per pupil for recreation purposes, just as there is a definite unit of area per pupil in the school. 3. Mr. Pirani.] You refer to certain education districts being close corporations against the admission of outside teachers : have you any objection to mentioning any of these educational districts? —It is a very difficult matter to get into the Auckland District, and I think it is a fairly difficult matter to get into the Otago District once you get out of it. I do not think lam very far wrong when I say it is difficult to get into the majority, except the smaller districts. 4. The districts you mention are the districts which have training colleges of their own?— Yes. 5. And is it not a fact that the districts you mention where it is easy to gain admission have no training colleges? —It may be so. 6. In Westland, Nelson, Marlborough, Grey, Wanganui, and Hawke's Bay there are no training colleges : am I not correct in saying it is easier for an outsider to get into any of these districts than it is to get into districts where there are training colleges ? —lf they do not train their own teachers they must admit from outside, but even in these districts I should say the tendency is to promote their own teachers in preference to outsiders. 7. But the tendency would be worse, surely, if they had their own training colleges?—lf you are going to establish thirteen training colleges I dare say it would be worse. 8. Do you not think that shows all the more the necessity for a Dominion scale of classification ?—Undoubtedly. That is what we advocate. We think that will bring it nearer than it ever will be with thirteen Boards. Some Boards are so small that it is impossible for them to have a scheme of promotion. 9. What districts do you refer to that had the junior Inspectors that were complained about? —If I remember rightly I think the Auckland delegates were strong on that point at the Council. 10. The lowest paid Inspector gets £400 a year in Auckland?—l think not at that time. I think some of them were appointed at £350. 11. You did not say anything about nature-study in the primary schools, and I would like to get your personal opinion on that question?—l have not mentioned that because it is to be taken up by Mr. Pinder, of the Syllabus Committee. My personal opinion is that you really cannot begin nature-study too early. I think it is one of the most valuable adjuncts of education in our schools. 12. I suppose you give physical drill regularly in the primary school? —Yes, I have the whole school out in the playground for a quarter of an hour. 13. And you think that amount of time should be doubled?—l would not say doubled, because perhaps half an hour might be too myjch, but I think at least twenty minutes ought to be demanded by the syllabus to be devoted to physical training every day. 14. Who inspect technical schools at the present time?—l understand special Inspectors from the Central Department. 15. Do you know if they have special qualifications?—l do not know. 16. Mr. Davidson.] What is the average attendance at your school?— Just on five hundred. We are staffed, I might say, on a 401 basis, although the school is right up to 550 this year on the roll. 17. Is the attendance at your school being seriously affected at present from any cause? — There are over a hundred absent every day from measles. 18. Do you think the departmental regulations should allow the Inspector-General discretionary power to add to the staff of a school on the recommendation of the Board's Inspector when a rapid increase in attendance takes place?—l certainly think it should be so in the interests of the children, because when there is a rapid increase and the staff is limited the children must suffer, because it is almost impossible to cope with the work. 19. Can you give us approximately the number of pupils who supply their own books though they are already supplied free by the Department?—l should say about 95 per cent., roughly. You will understand there is no compulsion in this matter at all. The children get their own books because they prefer to have them to do their work at home.
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20. Do you think it would be better if, instead of supplying free books, the Department supplied sufficient money to provide school stationery, pens, ink, &c? —I certainly think it would be very much better. 21. Mr. Thomson.] You saw service under the Victorian Education Department? —Yes. 22. There were no Boards of Education or School Committees in Victoria? —Not at that time. - 23. So far as you remember, will you tell us what was your experience in regard to promotion in Victoria under the Central Department?— Well, at that time there was no scheme of promotion at all. Of course, they have adopted a scheme of promotion since, which has very much altered matters. Ido not know how that scheme of promotion has worked out, At the time I left there promotion depended on political patronage. 24. So there is much virtue in our system of control by Boards and Committees after all? —I certainly think that with Boards and Committees you get local control, but we should like to see a Dominion scheme of promotion adopted on the lines of Auckland—namely, we want one name sent on to the Committee, and not four as is done here, because we consider that the Inspectors attached to the Boards are the people who know how the promotion should be worked out. It should not depend on a Committee of non-experts who have no means of judging. 25. You are aware thai Mr. Tate, the Victorian Director of Education, approves of the New Zealand system of Boards and Committees? —Yes. 26. You say that the sub-committee whom you are representing consider that four Boards only in the Dominion would improve matters? —Yes. 27. There are thirteen Boards at the present time, and if a reduction to four would improve matters, does it not follow that if you reduce the number to three or two, or even one, or abolish Boards altogether, you would still further improve matters?—No, because then you would lose local control. 28. You admit there is much virtue in local control? —Undoubtedly. 29. You consider it stimulates enthusiasm? —It does in certain directions. 30. And encourages people to take an active interest in promoting education in all departments in their district?— There is always more interest locally when you have the local people represented. 31. Under a system of four Boards I take it you would divide the South Island into two districts : did your Committee consider whether there might still be that continuity of interest which would lead people to take that active interest in education which you have just admitted stimulates educational activity in any given locality?— Yes, we did. We take it that Otago and Southland would constitute one Board at this end of the Island; and that South Canterbury, Canterbury, Westland, and Grey would form another; Nelson and Marlborough and the southern part of the North Island going into Wellington as a centre; and Auckland forming another. In regard to Westland and Grey, it was considered by us that when the Midland Railway goes through these districts will be within easy touch of Christchurch as a centre. 32. Do you consider these four Boards would create the same amount of local interest and promote the same local efficiency as obtains to-day? —Undoubtedly, because you would still have Committees in the different centres just as you have them now, and with the Committees as centres you would have the local interest. 33. In considering this system of two Boards for each Island have you thought out what would be the best system of election for the Boards?—No, we have not thought that out, 34. I suppose the real reason why you want a reduction in the number of Boards is to secure this Dominion scheme of promotion for teachers? —Not at all. I think one of the chief reasons is the reduction in expenses. There must be a reduction in expenditure by a combination of a number of the smaller Boards. 35. May not that reduction in expenditure be at the cost of local efficiency in administration? —Not necessarily. For instance, so far as local government is concerned, we have now a Greater Dunedin, and that amalgamation of the smaller suburban boroughs has certainly not resulted in any loss of efficiency so far as the upkeep of the city is concerned. 36. Are you aware that the opinion has been expressed that Auckland should be divided into two education districts—that the portion south of Mercer should be separated from the Auckland District and formed into a separate district? —I am not aware that statement has been made. I should value it according to the standing- of the person who made it. 37. Where did the demand for a reduction of the Boards to four originate—from the Teachers' Institute, from the Committees, or from the public generally I —lt has been discussed and approved by the Teachers' Institute for some years, and that represents the whole of the teachers from Auckland to the Bluff. 38. Have the School Committees ever made any pronouncement in regard to the matter? —I do not know that they have. 39. Generally you are in favour of the existing system of local control by Boards and Committees, only you are of opinion that the number of Boards should be reduced? —That is so. 40. Do you not think it would be possible to have a Dominion scheme of promotion even supposing you had eight Boards in the Dominion : has your committee thought that matter out? —I think we could have it with eight just as well as with four, provided you had the whole of the teachers graded; but it would be more difficult probably with eight than with four : there would be too many diverse interests coming in. 41. Mr. Poland.] Is not your object in advocating a reduction in the number of the Boards that fhe teachers may thereby secure a better system of exchange and promotion for themselves, and thereby increase their opportunities of obtaining better positions throughout the Dominion?— That is one of the reasons, and when we advocate that you will understand that if you improve the position of the teacher you will improve the work that will be done with fhe children, because
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the more contented you make the service and the better opportunity they have in the service the .onore likely you are to get better work done. You are not to forget that we think the cost of administration would also be very much reduced. 42. You are not bound down absolutely to four districts : I. presume, as Mr. Thomson has said, eight would be better than thirteen, but you think four would be better than eight?— Yes. 43. Do you not think, if there were, say, three Boards in each Island, with training colleges in each, you would thereby increase the efficiency- of the teaching, because the greater the number of training colleges the greater the number of efficient teachers are likely to be turned out? —I do not think there is room for six training colleges in a small Dominion like ours. In New South Wales there is only one, and in Victoria there is only one. If you increase the number here to six you are going to increase the cost of producing teachers very materially. The time ought not to be very far distant when the four we now have should easily cover all the requirements of the Dominion. 44. Do you think we could have much larger training colleges in each centre than at present? —I do not think we need them any larger. The increase in the staffing at present has caused the training colleges not to be able to keep up with the demand, but that ought to right itself in a short time. 45. You have had training colleges in existence for thirty-five years?— Before the Dominion scale of salaries came into force we could supply all the teachers we required here. The Dominion scale of salaries made New Zealand the field for Otago teachers. Before that the Otago teachers were higher paid than the teachers in other parts, and they would not go out, but they have gone out since. 4-6. You think that from now on the training colleges will be able to supply the demand'for trained teachers? —I think so. 47. Do you believe that the present scale of salaries will induce a sufficient number of men and women to enter the teaching profession to provide in the future for all the necessities of the profession?—l would not like to express an opinion in that respect. In comparing our scale of salaries with that of other Departments, like the Customs or Post and Telegraphs, we have nothing like the plums that they have. Ido not think the profession is likely to be as attractive as these other Departments, but so far as present appearances point we should be able to overtake the supply of teachers in the future. 48. Is it not a fact that a great proportion of teachers are women, and that a great proportion of these women, wnthin a period of } 7 ears, leave the profession in order to get married ?—You get the same position in nearly every part of the world. 49. I understood you to say, with regard to children who had obtained junior scholarships and free places, that the teachers with the Inspector should then decide as to whether a pupil should go to a high school or technical school for further instruction : do you not think the parents should have some say as to where the child should go?— Undoubtedly the parent would have to have some say, but I took it that the teacher would be familiar with what the parent would like the child to do. 50. Would you not rather say that the teacher and Inspector should advise the parent as to whether the child should continue at the high school or at the technical school ? —I do not know that I would. These are practically scholarships, and there is a large number of children going to the high schools now who are really not capable of appreciating the tuition they get in the high school. They would get better results probably from technical training. 51. Why do they not get the results from the high school?— Because they are following a course that does not suit their special bent. For instance, Mr. Marshall has told me that some of the best work in the technical school is produced by those who failed altogether in their proficiency certificates. 52. Might not the contrary position also obtain —that children after obtaining a proficiency certificate might go to the technical school who would be better fitted for a high-school education ? — That is where I think the headmaster would advise. 53. Do you not think that some portion of that half-hour for physical training might be given outside the present school hours?—l do not think so. I think physical training is not only a training of body, but it is also a training in discipline. 1 hear, for instance, military drill spoken of as if it were of no force or benefit jtt all. I think very often the question of discipline is lost sight of altogether. I think military drill is an excellent training in discipline. 54. Mr. Kirk.] What in your opinion is the value of the Junior Cadet movement solely from the physical-culture point of view? —I think it is valuable for the physical training they get and from a disciplinary point of view. 55. Would you advocate, in addition to the physical culture that is provided for boys by the Junior Cadet movement, an additional half-hour?— Yes, for this reason: I think the stronger you can make the future citizen the better the return the Dominion will get from him in his afterwork. lam positive that physical training given every day will make our boys capable of better work in the future; and even as regards school-work itself, I say it pays me to take a quarter of an hour every day to give these children physical training in the open air. 56. Have you any reason to believe that immorality exists in the schools ?—No. 57. What have you to say as to the general moral tone of the schools?—l should say the general moral tone is good. Of course, a great deal depends upon supervision. If there is good supervision in the school-ground I do not see how an} 7 thing immoral can come into the school. 58. You think Junior National Education Board Scholarships should be abolished and the moneys devoted to children living away from home? —That is so. 59. Are we to take it from that that scholarships should not be regarded as an incentive to better work, but merely as a means of providing an avenue for the poorer boys living in the country to obtain further education ?—Well, I take it there would be an examination for those
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boys, and you get the best from the country districts. At the present time the town boys can get wfiat are practically scholarships in the shape of free places, as formerly they had to pay ten guineas at the high school. It seems to me the difficulties they have to contend with in the backblocks and.the outlying districts can be met if we forego these scholarships in the towns. That is the opinion not only of the Otago Institute, but of the New Zealand Institute also. 60. Do you believe in differentiating between the poorer classes and the wealthy classes in the country districts?—No; I think it makes for class distinction. 61. If you take away a scholarship, for instance, from the son of a poor widow living in the town and give an allowance for board to the son of a squatter living in the country?—l think in that case the squatter ought to be manly enough not to take it. 62. But you would give him that opportunity?— That is a question I have not considered. A few might benefit who should not benefit, but the percentage would not be large enough to make it necessary to differentiate. 63. Mr. Wells.] With regard to the scholarship question, would you make an allowance for books?—We have not considered that, but perhaps it wou'd be a good idea. 64. You spoke of the scholar being required to buy his own books? —Not required. 65. You recommend that he should buy his own books. You know there is a regulation at present for money which may be spent on stationery provided the School Committee contributes a certain portion. Has any advantage been taken of that here?— Yes, in the Fifth and Sixth Standards only. 66. Would you like to see that extended right throughout the school? —Yes, or else the children should be allowed to take books home. I think the reader, which forms the basis of the pupil's training in English, should be his own property. 67. Is it your experience that the issue of the supplementary reading-books has led to an increased love of reading?—l think the School Journal has had a distinctly beneficial effect in that respect. The children look forward to it, and they seem to enjoy the reading of it. 68. You spoke of a grading Board and grading for a Dominion promotion scheme; you suggested two teachers from each district for that Board: why two teachers?— They would be familiar with the requirements of the district. 69. They would have to be experienced teachers to be able to gauge the merits of teachers? I think Inspectors would be better, but " teachers" was put in by the Committee. I should say the experts who come in contact with the teachers would be the ones best able to assign the marks on which they would be graded. 70. You objected to local rating. Suppose the cost of salaries were charged to the Consolidated Fund, and the local rating subsidized by the Government was allowed for school appliances, and that sort of thing, would that be a good thing? —No; I think some schools would be much better equipped than others. In some suburbs wealthy people reside, and in other the poorer classes reside. In the wealthier suburbs more would be contributed towards the school, and those schools would be better equipped than the others. I think in a national scheme of education all should be treated alike in that respect. It should all come out of the Consolidated Fund. 71. Have you in your experience come across any extreme instances of child-labour?— Yes, very much so. I have instances in my own school. We have boys getting up at half past 4 and 5 o'clock in the morning and working until half past 8, milking, and taking papers round after school. They work five hours in school and from five to six hours out of school. Over and over again in school when I have seen them listless I have asked them how they felt, and they generally reply that they feel sleepy. It is almost impossible to do anything with those children. I have noticed some of those boys doing really brilliant work up to the Third Standard, but when they reach the Fourth they begin to drop off; in fact, they cannot cope with the work at all. The way in which those children are treated at home is really scandalous, and very often in cases where the parents can afford to do without the labour of the child. In one instance which I reported lately the boy was simply taken away from the school. Of course, I ought not to have done it, as I lost from regular attendance. .72. One more question with regard to the appointment of teachers : it is the custom here to send in several names to the Committee? —Four names. 73. Is it within your knowledge that a teacher other than the one at the top of the list is chosen sometimes? —It is very rarely thSt the one at the top of the list is chosen. 74. And the effect on the teaching profession ?—lt naturally causes a great deal of discontent. 75. And must react on education? —It causes discontent. 76. The Chairman.] Assuming the cost of education —that is, the providing of the necessary teachers, the buildings, and even the playgrounds—in the first instance were made a charge on the Consolidated Fund, and the charge on the local body, whatever it is, went for repairs and the future upkeep and playgrounds, would that not lead to economy of administration?—No, I do not think so. 77. Is it not a fact that now indirectly they have to do it —-that it is a grievance with nearly every School Committee that the number of appeals to the parents for one thing and another is becoming irksome, and that our so-called free education is not free education at all as regards ordinary details : I refer to prize-money, pen-and-ink money, and. so on ?—That is so, but at the same time we think if you allow that to come in you will differentiate very largely between the two parts of the same community, and some people will be able to fit out their schools and get a larger percentage of the Consolidated Fund where there are subsidies than they would in other districts. That would not be a national system of education. 78. If you are told that the experience of other nations is entirely different—that economy is fostered and local interest in the school engendered to a greater degree than we have now by such a system, would you dispute it?—T have had no experience of it,
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79. Would you recognize Mr. Frank Tate as an authority?— Certainly, on some things. 80. If he makes such a statement as this —" The advantages of such a measure of decentralization (local control of school buildings and appurtenances) in purely business matters are sufficientlyobvious, and the result in stimulating local interest in the local school and in minimizing the exasperating delays of our present cumbrous procedure would be very great indeed " —what would you say to it? That is the experience of a man who has travelled the world over and has seen these local powers in operation. Would you be disposed to say in the face of this that such results are not obtainable? —Certainly not. He has had facilities for forming his opinion such as I have never had. 81. I understand you to say the teachers in the secondary schools should be equally trained teachers as in the primary schools, and that the sole test should not be educational attainments? —They should have educational attainments plus training in every case.
Saturday, 15th June, 1912. Edward Pinder examined on oath. (No. 36.) 1. The Chairman.] What are your qualifications, and what position do you now hold?—I am a Master of Arts of the New Zealand University, and have been engaged in teaching for thirtyone years. I am now head teacher of the Normal School in Dunedin. I attend here as representative of one of the branch committees of the Otago Educational Institute—the committee on the syllabus and the administration of the syllabus chiefly. I should like to give my experience first as a public-school teacher. I was a pupil-teacher for four years to start with, then a student at the Training College for one year; after that I went practically through all the grades of schools—a sole-teacher school, a two-teacher school, a four-teacher school, and the District High School; I was in the Mosgiel District High School for eight years, and now I am in the Normal School: so that I have been through practically all the grades of the profession. As you are aware, the Otago Educational Institute appointed three committees to bring evidence before this Commission. You heard representatives of two of those yesterday, and I am representing the third. We took the greater part of two days going through the syllabus, and we found, as the Institute has found before, what a very good syllabus it is. That was practically the conclusion we came to. Its only fault, if it has any, is, as is generally urged throughout the country, that there is rather much matter in it. Yet it is astonishing how little change we teachers can suggest. The following are the suggestions my committee made : In section 5 of the Syllabus Regulations, 1908, the committee recommends that the number of periodical examinations by the head teacher should be two instead of three : that is the minimum number. At present the head teacher's examination each term practically occupies him a month, and in the opinion of the head teachers three of those examinations in a year is rather too much. I am giving the opinion of the committee, not my own personal opinion. It must be remembered that this head teacher's examination is quite a different thing from the Inspector's examination. The Inspector's object is simply to see what progress each class is making as a whole. He can simply take a class in one subject and go from one to the other, and cannot get over the ground in two or three days. Our work is entirely different. We have to examine every child in the school in arithmetic and all the other subjects—written work and oral work —and the results are as I have told you. Then, as regards Regulation 12, my committee recommend that the inspection report should be divided into two sections, one dealing directly with the teacher's work, and the other with the things, such as cleanliness of premises, and so on, for which the Committee is responsible. At present all this is contained in the one report on the school. Then, in Regulation 13, which deals with the Inspector's report on the teachers' work, we are of the opinion that a clause requires to be inserted to this effect: that where a teacher has changed or has been absent from class for some time before 'he examination, say, within a month or two, such absence should be noted on his report which jontains the results of that examination. At present that is not done, and we received several complaints from members present that they had had reports made on their former work which they had been away from for a month or so, and there was no mention made in the report that they had been absent. Then, coming more directly to the syllabus, in clause 19, which deals with proficiency certificates, the committee recommend that in the subjects for the proficiency examination geography be removed from the (b) list, which practically makes it a subject for a long examination and is one of the subjects for the 60-per-cent. aggregate, and put on the (c) list and thus made one of the subjects in which the pupil must satisfy the Inspector that he has been sufficiently instructed in. Our reason was, shortly, this : that a subject like geography is a very wide one, and if it is to be put down as a subject for a written examination, it means a great deal more carrying of matter kt the memory than would be the case if made a subject for oral examination. It will be realized that an Inspector in conducting an oral examination on the exports from the different ports or the work of a country would adopt a line of questioning which would prepare the mind of the child and revive mental associations, whereas if the pupil has to answer the question in writing he has to carry the chief towns and ports of the whole civilized world in his mind, and he has three minutes in which to answer the question. By an oral examination the Inspector can soon find out whether the pupil has really been taught the subject, while by a written examination he cannot ascertain that so readily. With regard to No. 37, which deals with the readers that are recommended, the question sometimes arises as between a miscellaneous reader and a continuous reader. Well, the committee are of the opinion that the miscellaneous reader is preferable. Our reason is that if you adopt the continuous reader you are limited to one man's style and one man's matter, whereas if you adopt the miscellaneous reader for the purpose of study you have greater variety, and more chance of doing better work
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on the lines which call for a change of work. Then, in the matter of poetry, it was the opinion of the committee that the poetry in the special reading-books was not a very high standard, and it.~was also the committee's opinion that the poetry got exceedingly stale because the readingbooks are kept on year after year. Of course, it can be said that that can be obviated by teachers giving selections of their own for the purposes of poetry-repetition. But the committee thought fhere was a good way out in the existence of the School Journal, and they recommend that the February issue of the School Journal each year should be devoted mainly to being a poetry issue. It should contain selections of good poems which could be prepared by the pupils during the year. At all events, it would afford teachers a constantly changing field, and there would be a freshness about the poetry which there is not at present. They look upon poetry as a very important part indeed of the English work of the school. We come now to the consideration of the special subjects of the syllabus. The committee had practically no changes to recommend in the English part of the syllabus. It was felt that in the big schools more grammar might be done, but, on the other hand, in the less efficiently staffed schools that perhaps would have been a hardship, and, of course, the syllabus is practically a compromise between the two. The committee therefore decided to leave the English as it is, so far as their recommendations are concerned. In arithmetic, of course, the committee are aware of the prevailing charge that the arithmetic is not so accurate as it was at one time, and their opinion is that that charge is in a large measure correct. That is my own personal opinion, too. Accordingly they make the following recommendations : (1) For examination purposes no written problems be required in Standards I and 11, and in Standards 111 and IV only one written problem be required, which shall not involve more than one operation; (2) that for examination purposes 60 per cent, of the mark value of sums set in Standards V and VI be for mechanical work. The general opinion of teachers I have come in contact with was that the slight mechanical work in the lower standards was not enough abstract concentration work. The pendulum since the present syllabus had swung too far forward, and it was thought that a middle course was best to counteract it. The mistakes made in arithmetic are not mistakes of ignorance—it is not that they do not know their tables—it is the want of concentration; and the committee were of opinion that the concrete work, good as it is and necessary as it is, had been rather much magnified, and not enough attention had been given to the abstract concentration work, because, after all, when you make a calculation it is purely an abstract matter. You add up a column of figures, but the last thing you are thinking of is the actual figures themselves. At the same time, the children must have the concrete things at the back of the mind. They were not there at present, and the committee reckoned that that was the cause of the present inaccuracy in arithmetic. Another recommendation of the committee was that necessary apjsaratus for weighing and measuring be supplied to the schools. That is largely for Standard IV. At present there is no such provision. One teacher will make his own arrangements, and when he goes away from the school to another he takes his apparatus with him. Some of the bigger schools have been able to get their Committees to spend money on the matter and have a permanent equipment of a sort, but it is thought that all schools should be on an equal footing. The committee also thought that the work of Standard IV was rather heavy compared with Standard 111, and they recommend that simple reductions in avoirdupois weight and measuring in feet, yards, chains, and miles might be taken in Standard 111 instead of Standard IV. Then, another recommendation is that practice in Standard V should always be worked by decimals, and that in the same standard interest-sums principals should not involve pence and farthings. It. is also recommended that proportional-part sums be cut out of Standard V. It was considered that these very seldom arose in after-life, and they were subjects which could be varied to a certain extent and required a good deal of work. In regard to metric work, the committee thought that that should be transferred from Standard VI to Standard VII, until the system was used in every-day life. The metric system is, of course, used now in scientific work to the exclusion of all others, but the ordinary every-day life of carpenters and tradesmen it is not used to any extent that I am aware of. The committee also recommend that the arithmetic-books used in Otago be completely revised, in addition to what I have mentioned, on the following lines : («) more large-sums work in the lower standards, and fewer problems; (b) problems in Standards V and VI, and Standard IV be cut out —this, of course, has reference only to what obtains at present in Otago —and that their place be taken by a type of problem more suited to the ordinary, commercial, business, and manufacturing life of the Dominion. The committee thought that a committee should be appointed consisting of teachers and business men, and that they could evolve a type of problem that would be more suited to the practical requirements of daily life and at the same time give such mental training which would be of more concrete value than that at present is the case. I can instance that by the measurement of timber. There is no pupil who leaves school who knows what is meant by the term " 100 feet of timber " —no teacher either, for that matter. I do not know myself. I have been told several times by practical men, but I always keep forgetting. I am only bringing that forward as an instance of the unpractical nature of the problems set in the upper standards. I dare say if these problems were wiped out it would be found that pupils would go on to the high school possibly not so well equipped for matriculation as has been the case, but I do not think that our standard should be set for matriculation, but for the necessities of daily life. A very small fraction of our pupils ever go near the University or have anything to do with matriculation. Another recommendation of the committee is that the sums in the upper standards be arranged to be worked by decimals rather than by vulgar fractions, which are made to cancel out always and so are out of touch with actual conditions. There is little mechanical work in working out these sums on the present system, and if persisted in the pupil gradually weakens in the calculatingfibre, if there is such a thing. They get into the habit of expecting the sum to come out easily, and if it does not they lose heart to tackle it. I dare say when this practice was drawn up it was
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felt that the pupils would be able to cope with the problem work without being bothered with mechanical work while thinking of the principle, but the committee were of opinion that it had been carried too far. In geography the experience of teachers forming the committee was that the A course in geography was too heavy, and accordingly they recommend that the A course, especially 7 in Standards V and VI, be lessened by cutting out whatever does not directly bear on commerce and history, and that the B course be consolidated by means of a text-book. They 7 recommend that history remain as at present. At present history is a compulsory subject in the syllabus. There is no reason why a teacher should not treat it thoroughly. It is pressure of other subjects that keeps the teacher from taking up history fully. I have heard history- referred to as if it was not compulsory. It is a compulsory subject on the syllabus, but the syllabus says it may be treated as a reading subject, with the provision that the teacher questions the pupils and sees that they have a full understanding of what they read. In the Junior Scholarship Examination last year there was a question in history asking what events led up to the Magna Charta, Habeas Corpus, and Bill of Rights respectively. History used to be treated as a written subject. What did a question like that mean '! A teacher did not know what questions were to be asked. The pupil had three minutes to devote to each answer, and it meant that he must have in his mind all the matter connected with the bulwarks of English liberty, the events that had led up to them, and the necessity for them. It is felt that that is not needed in the case of children. The committee's opinion was that history should be made more of a personal matter. The child takes no interest in constitutional things. He takes an interest in people, and the committee considered that history should be made more a matter of biography. Great men should be picked out and an interesting story of each given, and if that is done the child will take an interest in it and read with profit. The great defect is that text-books are uninteresting to children, and the present state of history in the primary schools is largely due to the unsuitable nature of the text-books. In regard to scholarships the committee recommend that the time has arrived when all Junior National and Education Board Junior Scholarships should be abolished, and the money so saved be spent in paying lodging-expenses of those children who require to live away from home in order to attend a district high school or secondary school, and who, in the opinion of the Inspectors, have shown by the results of their proficiency examinaton that they are best qualified to benefit by receiving secondary education. The best of these pupils should be selected by the Inspector on the proficiency examination. Of course, you might have an examination to select the best, but the committee did not want to put the burden of the scholarship examination on country schools which they were not willing should be placed on themselves. The main reason for making this recommendation was that, in our opinion, the present system of scholar--ship examination leads to cramming and overwork, and a wrong estimate is set on the value of what is taught in the school. You have only to read the papers set for the Junior Scholarship Examination and those set for Standard VI Proficiency to see the meaning of that. The arithmetic in the 1910 Junior Scholarship Examination was three or four times harder than that set for the Proficiency Examination. Geography was the same. These Junior Scholarship Examinations made far too strong a demand on the child. I can talk from experience with regard to this 1910 examination, because my own girl sat for it, and I know the work it was. I know from my own experience as a teacher of the last ten or fifteen years that every- child who got a scholarship had worked one or two hours extra every day 7, and I had not the very 7 dullest children under me. I cannot imagine that the scholarships are gained on the school-work only. I do not believe it for one moment. It has never been my experience. You may get a particular case of extra-smart child where such is not the case, but I am talking of the average child. I saythat scholarships are gained as the result of a great deal of mental overwork. I am of opinion especially that girls of the age of fourteen should not be allowed to go for scholarships. The working for a scholarship is bound to do them harm. The committee did not go into the question of nature-study and the other work : we had not the time. We sat for two days, and that was all the time we could give to the work. Had we gone into them I do not think we would have recommended much change. It was wonderful when we went into the syllabus how little there was to alter. That merely shows how good a one it is in the main. 2. Mr. Pirani.] Do you say that girls should not be allowed to go up for scholarship examinations ?—Yes. 3. Do you not think that if girls are not allowed to compete in scholarship examinations there should be some other system of awarding scholarships to girls? —Our recommendation is that scholarships should be done away with altogether. 4. Even in the country districts? —No. With regard to those far away from the secondary schools there is no reason why the Inspector and the teacher should not pick out the children who are more particularly fit to go on to secondary education. The teacher has the record of the child's work, and the Inspector who knows the working of the different schools could say which child was fit for secondary education. 5. Instead of the ordinary competitive examination these scholarships should be awarded on the opinion of the teacher and the Inspector?— That is so. 6. Mr. Davidson.] As headmaster of the Normal School you come into contact very much with the students of the Training College? —Yes, to a considerable extent. 7. What is } 7 our opinion as to the attitude of the student to his University work as compared with his ordinary work in teaching? —My opinion is that a student who will take a keen interest in one will take a keen interest in the other. lam talking of the average student. I have seen occasional instances where a student has preferred the University work, but that is an exceptional instance. 8. Do you think that on the whole the students are as intensely interested in the practical work of teaching as in their desire to pass their University examinations? —That is really a big
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order. The bulk of these students have been pupil-teachers, and they have not attended the University. That brings in factors I could not speak about, As a rule those who are keenest to get ..an in the University are the most conscientious in their assistance to the class teacher. 9. You have had experience of practically all classes of schools in the education service? —Yes. 10. Do you think that if some assistance was given to the teachers of schools between thirty and-forty it would tend to increase the supply of desirable students for our training colleges?— You mean it would make more vacancies for pupil-teacherships? 11. It would provide more openings for country children for entering the teaching service? —I believe it would be a good move, for this reason : we get both classes of students at the Training College, and there is no comparison between those who have been pupil-teachers and those who have not. If you are going to depend on those who have not been pupil-teachers for the supply of teachers it is a wrong principle to go on. To expect to turn out a teacher on two years' training is absurd. 12. If these country children had two or three years' training under the teacher of a soleteacher school and then had two years in the Training College in the city, do you think they would return to the country to take charge of these smaller schools in the backblocks? Do you believe that such teachers would be more likely to remain there contentedly than those teachers who have lived in the cities all their lives? —I think there would be a slight probability, but not a very great one. After all, it is a question of the distance away from the conveniences of the city, and a small salary; and I think that will always rule the supply. 13. Do you not thinkthere would be a tendency in that direction?— Yes, but very little. 14. With regard to history, is it not really in the hands of the Inspector's to see whether or not this subject is really treated in a thorough manner?—So far as the syllabus goes, that is so. Of course, you may also say it is on the conscience of the teacher to treat it properly. 15. If the Inspectors insist on its being taught properly the chances are that the teachers will yield to that pressure?— Given suitable text-books. 16. Mr. Poland.] Do you think that the children attending the Normal School suffer in any w-ay in the matter of their instruction by the students teaching them ?—I think the Inspectors could answer that better than I. 17. You are not in a position to answer it?—l can only answer from the Inspectors' reports. The Normal School has been accredited with " excellent " not only as regards teaching, but also as regards tone and discipline, and there was only one other school in the district which got that mark. What that means exactly you can ask the Inspector. I think it is rather a benefit to have the students working in the school. 18. You cannot answer the question?— You must have really- good teachers in a normal school, but given good teachers there is no reason why- a student should not do a great deal of class work under the teachers' direction, and do it well, and the class not suffer. 19. Is it not possible for the Board to get the best class of teachers for the Normal School? — Our Board do that, lam glad to say. They have sent me several teachers since I have been in charge of the school, and I am of opinion that they made the best selection. 20. When you were in charge of a district high school was there a rural course?— No. 21. Do you understand what is in the rural course provided by the Department?— Yes. 22. Do you know any district high school around here where'it is in operation?— The Board have appointed three teachers. I have no personal knowledge of the teaching of the subject. 23. Mr. Kirk.] You think that an immense amount of cramming goes on in connection with preparation for scholarship examinations?— Define what you mean by "cramming." If you accept my- definition of cramming as not necessarily implying work under study, but carrying too heavy a load of work in the memory to be used at a certain time, and everything carried ready to be put down and very little original thought needed, I am of opinion that that is what it ends in as at present conducted. 24. Would those remarks also apply to the Matriculation Examination? —Not so much. You must remember that the scholarship is a competitive examination, and it is the highest number of marks that counts. The tendency of all competitive examinations is towards cramming. 25. Does it not also apply to the B.A. degree examinations?— There is no objection there. 26. Nor to the M.A. ?—There is no objection there. You just try to obtain a certain number of marks. There is competition, of course, in the University scholarship examinations. 27. Would you say that for those degree examinations no cramming goes on?—My opinion is that the University course is largely cramming from, end to end. I have been through it all. 28. Has any- system been yet contemplated by which cramming can be avoided?—ln what direction? 29. In any examination? —In all written examinations there is a tendency to eram —a tendency exacted by competition. 30. Does it not amount to this : that the constitution of man and woman is such that a really keen one wall always do more than is necessary; that you cannot make up a syllabus which would prevent persons from, cramming unless you made a very low standard? —You might prevent the cramming that goes on for scholarship examinations by doing away with the scholarships. 31. Do you not know cases of boys who did only an ordinary amount of work and who surprised you by getting a scholarship?—Y'es, because I "did a lot of work with them. 32. Does that not point to the fact that a lot of the work you call " cramming " is unnecessary?—l always find it necessary : that is all I can say. 33. Is it not rather a case of the nature of the boy who is keen, and devotes time to study which would be better devoted to physical exercise?— No. As a rule the boy who gets a scholarship is one who has ambition or who wants to please his parents, and not because of any liking for study. I have never yet met the boy who was particularly fond of study.
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34. Assuming that a greater amount of time was devoted to physical development, do you think there would still be danger of physical incapacity resulting from scholarship examinations? —I do not say that physical incapacity results now, but that the tendency is in that direction. 35. What is the effect of cramming on the health? —It is detrimental. I had a boy in my class who took a scholarship at Mosgiel, and I noticed the effect on him. I noticed the effect on 'my daughter the year before last. The general health was lowered; the physical energy of the body was lowered; the face became pale and the appetite lessened, and so on. 36. In the case of your daughter was attention given to her physical training during the time she was studying?— She had the usual physical training given her at school: a few minutes every morning and half an hour's drill during the week, and then she walked up and down to school twice each way each day—a quarter of a mile, half of it up a steep hill. She had no spare time afterwards. As a matter of fact, she had to do a certain amount of house-work. 37. Mr. Wells.] You spoke of overtime work in connection with scholarships : is that a regular practice in Dunedin schools? —I can only say that to the best of my knowledge it is. It is hearsay, except in the case of my own school. I have a boy now who wants to go in for a scholarship. If we decide to put him up we will start next month. I will give him about two hours a week if I can spare it, and his class teacher will give him three hours. 38. Is that outside school hours? —Not altogether. 39. Would it surprise you to know that there is an understanding among all the city schools in Auckland that there shall not be any keeping-in for one minute after hours for scholarship and free-place work, and yet we get a fair percentage of scholarships ? I can give one instance where thirty-seven out of forty got free places?— That is a different thing. There is no competition there. lam not suggesting we do overwork to get free places. 40. There is extra work done for scholarships?— Yes. There is in my school, and I believe there is in other schools. I cannot imagine it is not done where pupils are competing against each other. 41. Did I understand you to say you would confine your history 7 -teaching to the reading of a book? —I was talking of the requirements of the syllabus. 42. Do you not recommend something more than that?—As a matter of fact I do at the Normal School, but I was giving the opinion of the committee on the syllabus required. 43. You would not confine history to the reading of a book?—lf I had a suitable book, largely biographical, I would gladly do so. I have not seen a good history-book for children. 44. Would you suggest striking anything out of Standard Vl in regard to arithmetic? —The quarrel with regard to the Standard VI syllabus is in the problem work given. These requirements are not in the syllabus, but in the books. 45. You would not recommend striking out compound interest? —No. That is very interestingwork if done by decimals. 46. As far as you know, are teachers in this district in favour of a concrete scheme for promotion? —I cannot speak on that. We have not discussed that matter. I think the feeling of the profession generally is that something should be done, but I do not know about putting every one in hard-and-fast grades and to make promotion entirely- by seniority. I do not think that that would be acceptable to most of the teachers. 47. You have taught in a district high school?— Yes. 48. Have you any opinion to offer in regard to the salaries paid to the assistants in the district high schools? —I think they are quite insufficient, and, seeing the work those assistants have to do, there is no reason why the assistants in the district high schools should not be paid as much as the assistants in the secondary schools. 49. Can you express an opinion on the effect of manual work on boys and girls?—l think the effect is a good one. I particularly specify the cookery classes. I have watched the effect on my own children and others, and have nothing but " good " to say as to the effect of cookery-work on girls. They like it and take an interest in it, and it is in touch with their future life-work. 50. Mr. Hogben.] Did I understand you to say that you would cut out the metric system from the arithmetic of Standard Vl l —That was the finding of the committee. 51. And leave it in Standard V? —No; I suppose that has been overlooked The finding of the committee, I suppose, implies cutting it out of Standard Vas well. It adds to the burden of Standard VI work considerably. The reason of the committee was that in the metric work there was a tremendous amount of work involved in the change from the present system to the metric system, and they could see no direct benefit to be derived from the large variety of problems that would be given in that direction. 52. It is really in the character of the sums set that you find the difficulty of the change from one system to the other ?—ln the possible scope of the questions that might be set. 53. Did the committee not consider the recommendation of the International Committee on Weights and Measures that in. every country- the children should be prepared for the metric system by the introduction of the system to the children? —Yes; but that is not put into the syllabus, I presume. 54. You do not agree with that?—lt is a question of when it is to be introduced. As far as we could see, the time is as far off as ever. 55. You know it is legal now? —Yes, but not the slightest move has been made to enforce it. 56. Would you make any allowance to free-place holders who live in town?— No. 57. Not even to senior free-place scholars? —We did not discuss senior scholars. 58. Mr. Pirani.} Would you favour a Dominion scheme of teachers if promotion was to be by merit? —Merit would not have the same objection, doubtless, as seniority. 59. In regard to the appointment of teachers to vacancies, do you not think that the Inspector's placing should be final unless some good reason is shown?— Yes, I do.
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60. The Chairman.} May I assume that the result of placing the classification of pupils in the hands of the teachers has been on the whole satisfactory? —I should say so in the case of the larger schools; but I do not see how it could be satisfactory in the case of the backblock schools, where there are a large number of uncertificated and unqualified teachers. _ 61. I want you to except those?— Then I should say it would be satisfactory. 62. Having proved itself satisfactory in that case, does any- reason suggest itself to your mind why the extension of that principle should not be proceeded with in the direction of allowing the teacher with the Inspector to select pupils in the primary schools qualified to go on to the secondary school, instead of deciding that matter by scholarship examination? —Yes, but the scholarship is not the only means of entrance to the secondary school. 63. Would not that allow the teacher on the advice of the Inspector to promote a child to the secondary school?— The child will have the right to go to the secondary- school by receiving a free place. The scholarship does not give that right—only a monetary allowance, 64. Are you of opinion that the teachers of secondary- schools should have some acquaintance with primary-school work before appointment?—l should say it was a mistake that secondaryschool teachers should not have some degree of previous training. 65. In your opinion would it be an advantage if appointments to such positions were made by the educational authorities of the district instead of by Boards of Governors? —Yes, I would be in favour of Education Boards taking over high schools, and working them and the technical schools together. 66. You see no difficulty whatever?— No. The same children attend them both. 67. Is there any disposition on the part of students in the Training College to study their future so far as the University is concerned rather than their work as a primary-school teacher? —You will find an odd instance of it; but, speaking generally, it is not so. Flora Maclean Allen examined on oath. (No. 37.) 1. The Chairman.] What is your position?—l am Lady Principal of the Otago Girls' High School. I have been a member of the teaching staff of that institution for twenty-one years, and have been Principal from the beginning of the second term of this year. lam a Master of Arts of the New Zealand University. 2. Have you any statement to make to the Commission in connection with the administration of your own school, or the working of the secondary schools of the Dominion as far as you know them? —Many senior girls labour under great disadvantages, for after spending sometimes five years in school and passing both Matriculation and Junior Civil Service Examinations, they can neither gain admittance to the Training College nor receive appointments as pupil-teachers or probationers. This year, in regard to the latter point, has been an excellent one, ten pupils of the school being chosen, but only two or three, I think, of last year's girls were able to enter the Training College. In former years, many, owing to this difficulty, have been obliged to abandon the idea of entering the teaching profession, and have found employment in shops and offices, or have become private governesses. Others have taken charge of country schools as uncertificated teachers. This year three senior girls who have all passed Matriculation have not succeeded in getting either pupil-teacherships or as probationers. One of these in addition has held a Senior Board Scholarship, and passed sixth for the Dominion in the Junior Civil Service, yet has yot received a position in the Civil Service either. If a system could be instituted by which girls thus qualified would be permitted to take technical subjects in the technical school, gain practice in teaching in the primary schools, and continue certain subjects in the high school, making up the requisite number of units in the three, co-ordination between the primary, secondary, and technical schools would be secured. At present, in cases such as these, the Government is paying a high price for education without receiving any return for the money expended. At present there is considerable overlapping in the Technical School and High School. We are teaching commercial subjects and the Technical School has day classes for English and arithmetic. It would be more satisfactory if the High School taught only secondary-school subjects, and the Technical purely technical ones, and pupils who wish to specialize to a certain extent in technical subjects were allowed to combine their units in the two schools. We sometimes lose pupils wffio wish to devote more time to commercial subjects than we are able to give to them in our time-table owing to the unit system. Further, girls who are not very strong have sometimes to be taken away from school because they find our syllabus too heavy, but if on the payment of a small fee, not higher than that charged at the Technical School for each class, they were able to take two or three classes in our school, and a discretionary latitude were 'allowed with respect to the units, we should retain our pupils, and they would derive the benefits of secondary education. About primaryschool subjects I can say very little, and that little with considerable diffidence, for up till the present year I have had nothing whatsoever to do with the junior pupils of the school, my work being solely confined to the senior classes and to subjects not taught in the primary schools. There seems to be a concensus of opinion that the standard in arithmetic is not so high, the pupils being less accurate, but I am persuaded that the blame does not lie with the teaching of that subject, for the teaching in the primary schools has probably never been more efficient than now, but that the fault is to be attributed to the overweighting of the syllabus, which leaves less time than formerly for practice in a subject such as arithmetic. Grammar is not taught on the same lines as formerly, and many pupils in beginning a foreign language find this branch of the work verydifficult. It does not seem that free education is being taken advantage of to the extent that it should. At the close of last year 23 per cent, of the first-year pupils left the school, and just 30 per cent., including those who left during the first term of this year, and 37J per cent, of the second year, all of whom but six had qualified for senior places. At the close of their second
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year girls have been in the habit of leaving and going to the Technical School if they wished to specialize in commercial subjects. 3. Mr. With regard to the girl who passed the Junior Civil Service Examination sixth on the list, do I understand you to say she was not offered a position in the Civil Service? —I think not. I inquired of her earlier in the year, and, so far as I know, no position has yet been offered to her. 4. .What remedy would you suggest to get over the trouble that so many girls who pass the Junior Civil Service and Matriculation Examinations are unable to obtain admission to the training colleges and are therefore lost to the teaching profession ?—The only remedy would be to increase the accommodation at the training colleges, or perhaps follow out the system that I suggested of permitting them to remain as pupils of the schools, and practise teaching in the primary schools of the towns. 5. As pupil-teachers?—As probationers; perhaps not receiving any appointment, but having permission from the headmasters to assist in the various classes. 6. Are you aware whether candidates for the Board's service who have matriculated receive preference for appointments?—l do not think that has been the case always, because I think of one instance of a girl who matriculated who did not receive an appointment. She was compelled to wait for a year before she received an appointment. 7. Mr. Thomson.] You say that large numbers of girls leave the Girls' High School to go to the Technical School —I presume, to receive instruction in, shorthand and typewriting?—l think chiefly for that purpose, but sometimes to take the domestic course. 8. Is instruction given in shorthand and typewriting at the High School? —Yes, but for a shorter time than in the Technical School. On the other hand, we have had a girl coming to us from the Technical School because she w 7 as not able to get there the subjects she wished to enable her to take up a domestic-science course at the University. 9. Mr. Davidson.] Concerning the alleged overlapping and lack of co-ordination between the primary and secondary schools, do you think if one body had control of primary, secondary, and technical education in this district that overlapping could be avoided? —I really cannot say. I have not considered the subject. 10. Do you not think there would be a tendency to dovetail the different branches of the system into one another if one controlling body managed affairs?— Yes, I think there might be. 11. Concerning these girls who could not obtain positions as probationers or pupil-teachers, you say that ten from your school received positions this y 7 ear I —Yes. 12. And as to those who were refused, do you not think it may have been because they did not show any natural ability for teaching?—l do not know. I think that some of those who were rejected have much more ability really than some who w 7 ere accepted, but perhaps on the day of examination they may 7 not have done themselves justice. One, at any rate, was a nervous, highstrung girl. 13. I take it you do know that the Inspectors selected the candidates who in their opinion were the most suitable? —One candidate who did not receive a pupil-teachership last year was unable to sing, and perhaps that stood her in bad stead. 14. How would 3 7 ou avoid the evil you mentioned of the girls who leave your school at the end of the first year and the first term of the second year?—l think it would be hardly possible to avoid it wholly, because the circumstances of the families to which the girls belong have a great deal to do with the fact that they leave so early. In many cases it seems almost imperative that they should earn money as early as possible. 15. In that case do you not think it would be better that they should not enter the High School if they are only to remain a year or a little more than a year?—l really cannot answer that question. 16. Do you think that parents or guardians should be compelled to give some guarantee that pupils accepting free places shall remain at the schools for a definite period?—l think that would be a great help if it could be carried out successfully. 17. Mr. Pirani.] Did you find that that sort of thing occurred with the pupils who came to the school in the past before the free-place system came into operation?—No, I think not. It used to be the habit for the girls to remain at the school for a number of years; but in that case they were paying for their I think they valued it more. 18. Have you noticed during the last few years any deterioration in the standard of education in the girls who now come to you as compared with those in the past?— Yes, I think so. I think most of the girls now are much weaker on the memory side of their intellect than they used to be, and they do not reason out the subjects so clearly as in former times. 19. Do you think that probably may be due to the fact that the great majority of your pupils at the present time come from a different class to those who used to pay for their education?— I think that may partly contribute to it; but I have discussed the matter with experienced primary-school teachers, and they have told me they have noticed even in the primary-schools a difference in the mental calibre of the children. 20. Do you think that is due to the indiscriminate manner in which parents allow their children to go to evening entertainments at the present time?—l think that may contribute to it to some extent. 21. Mr. Hogben.] When you refer to a massing of the units, do you mean that a pupil might be enrolled as a free pupil in the Girls' High School and be allowed to take some work whilst she is there, say, in domestic science at the Technical School, and then that we should count these units as part of her work qualifying for a senior free place? —Yes. 22. Mr. Kirk.] Do you approve of the teaching of such subjects as shorthand and typewriting in high schools? —Personally I do not.
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23. You think they should be left to a later stage?— Yes, or should be taught in the technical schools. 24, The Chairman.] Would you prefer that that subject which you regard as a technical one should be exclusively taught in the technical school? —Yes. -• 25. Do you think the present primary course is a sufficient preparation for the work of your school?—As far as I know it is, but I have had so little experience of the first-year pupils that I cannot pronounce very definitely upon it. 26. What, in your opinion, lias been the effect of the free-place system : am I justified in saying that there has been a large departure of girls who would tinder other conditions have come to your school but now find their way to private secondary schools?— Yes, very large indeed. At present, supposing a girl has failed in her continuation examination at the end of the second year, if her parents are able to afford it she is often taken from the High School and sent to a private school. 27. And from the material you now draw upon, you are satisfied there is a strong desire on the part of parents that their children should enter into the labour field as early as they can?— Yes. 28. How can you counteract that and stop the leakage you referred to? Do you think that the girls who do not go through a thorough course at the secondary schools should be required to go into a continuation school, day or night, rather than that they should go to you and stop only one year? Can they do any good educationally by marking time for one year in your school? —Well, I think that the better class of pupils have an advantage even through staying one year at the High School. 29. That is your well-considered opinion?—l think so, but I have not really considered the matter very thoroughly, because I have not seen exactly how this trend can be stopped. William McElrea examined on oath. (No. 38.) 1. The Chairman.] You are Rector of the District High School at Balclutha? —Yes, and I have held that position for sixteen years. I am a Bachelor of Engineering of the Royal Irish University. 2. I understand you attend here to-day as the representative of a committee set up to look into the work of the secondary department of the district high schools, and also the manual and technical work?— Yes. I would first say something about the work in the secondary department of the district high schools. We think that secondary assistants should be better paid. There is a disinclination to take up these positions, because the work owing to the number of classes and ,the number of subjects is very- heavy. In most subjects there are first-, second-, and third-year courses. In the Board's Senior Scholarship Class D, and in the Junior Civil Service Examinations, we have to compete against the high schools with fuller staffs. Owing to the great amount of written work done in the secondary departments of these schools as compared with the amount done in primary classes, much time outside of school hours is required for correction of work and setting of test papers; consequently all first assistants in secondary departments of these schools should be paid at least as highly as any first assistant in a primary school. I consider £300 a . year should be the salary offered. The position does not lead to promotion in the service. Besides, as soon as some experience is gained, assistant teachers find more congenial and often better-paid positions in high and technical schools. I have now the fourth assistant in five years. Three left to take appointments in high schools. The fourth will likely follow if a salary commensurate with the work is not forthcoming. As to additional assistants, I have referred to the number of classes and of subjects, and consider that a fuller staff than is at present granted is necessary. The desire for education is becoming more general throughout the country, and these district schools provide, or should provide, a good secondary education near the pupils' homes. Efficient staffingis necessary for their continued success. We think the head teacher should have a freer hand in the distribution of his time. With the head teacher tied to giving the greater portion of his time to the primary-school work, the senior pupils are to some extent deprived of the stimulatinginfluence and teaching-power of the most experienced member of the staff. Where head teachers have had. a wide experience in this secondary- work it would be better to give them the opportunity of exchanging more frequently with members of the secondary staff. Supervision in the way of visits from departmental Inspectors should not be necessary. It is not considered necessary for the primary schools, neither should it be for the secondary departments of the district high schools, which have been always very closely cared for by the Board's Inspectors. Every year we furnish a report showing the classes, subjects, scope of work, time given to each subject, the names of the teachers, and their qualifications. This report should show the work attempted, and our Inspectors could be relied on to see it carried out. Though a departmental Inspector may allot marks for promotion, it is the Board's Inspectors who, I think, invariably allot these marks. Manual and technical Inspectors could be freed from this.work in primary schools, their services being retained for technical and trade schools where expert Inspectors are required. I wish to deal now with the rural course. Owing to the importance of rural education and the enthusiastic way in which the rural course of instruction is being taken up in the Dominion, provision should be made that a certain number of Junior University Scholarships or Senior National Scholarships should be allotted for proficiency in the subjects of this course. At the present time a pupil who spreads his energy over the subjects of the rural course is heavily handicapped in the competition for any of these scholarships, as the marks given for Latin are much higher than those given for the sciences; and two sciences only carrying 600 marks each may be taken. Latin alone carries 1,500. Physiology and agriculture, which are compulsory under the rural course, cannot be taken for these scholarships. These scholarships, if established, would lead up to a science degree. Pupils who, on gaining an Education Board Junior Scholarship, enter a high school can at once specialize on
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such subjects as lead, through the Education Board Senior Scholarship, course D, to the Junior University Scholarship, whereas if they attend a district high school they must take the rural '"course embracing several sciences. Latin may be given a preponderating weight in what may be called literary scholarships, but provision should be made for candidates specializing in rural science, owing to the vastly greater number to which this course appeals, or should appeal. As to nature-study, in training colleges better provision should be made for, and more attention given to, nature-study. 1 think much valuable time is wasted on this branch of education through teachers' lack of aim and method. Agriculture should receive more attention in the training colleges, and students might have the opportunity of specializing in this branch on experimental farms, or in certain district high schools favourably situated for such work, where arrangements might be made for special classes under the Board's instructors. If Boards had a freer hand, much might be done in this direction. The aim should be that the teaching staff of a school should be able to carry on the work in rural science and domestic science. The permanent teacher, ifproperly equipped, would be a greater power than the visiting teacher. As to manual training, in woodwork in primary classes the making of useful articles should be encouraged. The training need not be less effective —indeed, I think it would be more so, as far as more interest would be taken in the work. The use of the sewing-machine should be allowed and encouraged in the higher standards. Woodwork and cookery in secondary departments should be optional subjects for Junior Civil Service and Senior Free Place Examinations. If advantage be taken under Regulation 7, (c), of recommending pupils for senior free places, the units of work put into woodwork and cookery may, I presume, be counted and receive credit; but if the pupil submits to examination these subjects have no place, altough one-twelfth to one-fifteenth of the school time be given to them. For a competitive examination there might be some difficulty in examining, but for non-competitive examinations a certificate from the Board's Inspector that the prescribed course had been completed should be sufficient. As to nature-study in primary schools, all cityschools should be furnished with a plot of ground, not for the purpose of teaching gardening, but for the purpose of allowing pupils to see plants growing under natural conditions —not in pots in school-rooms. More interesting and more effective work could be done. The expenses incurred by pupils while attending centres for Proficiency, Civil Service, and Matriculation Examinations should be refunded. Pupils living in outlying places are often put to considerable expense in travelling to and from these centres. I would suggest that the number of returns might be reduced. We have to supply the following quarterly returns: (1) Quarterly attendance; (2) conveyance returns; (3) reports on National Scholarship holders; (4) reports on Education Board Scholarship holders; (5) certificate respecting free pupils; (6) lists of entrants and removals of free pupils, and (7) boarding returns. We have also to supply the following annual returns : (1.) One showing subjects taught classes in each subject, the number in each class, the units of of work in each subject, and the teacher of each class, and the work proposed for the year. (2.) Return of free pupils, giving date of birth, class of free place, clause under which held, and date of expiry of free place. (The same information regarding pupils is supplied two or three years.) (3.) Application to have technical and manual classes recognized for following year. These must state — (a) The scheme or course of work proposed, (b) hours given to it, (c) the approximate roll number in each class, (d) what material or apparatus may be required (Form III). (4.) Application for recognition of classes to be held in cookery, botany, elementary agriculture, chemistry, physiology, woodwork, &c, with roll number in each, day and hour of meeting,, term, and name of teacher (Form Ib). (5.) Separate rolls to be kept for each of these subjects. (6.) Claims for capitation for classes sanctioned in Form 111 (Form V). (7.) Claim for capitation for classes sanctioned in Form 1b (Form II). I grant that many of these returns are absolutely necessary, but I think in many cases they might be simplified. The capitation system of providing manual and technical training should be abolished. The system is umvieldy, and possesses other bad features. A striving after capitation grant is not to be encouraged, however necessary that grant may be to the finances of the Board in trying to push forward a desirable means of education. A direct grant on a per capita or some other basis would be far more satisfactory to the Board, and its administration by the Board would be more effective. The local-Inspectors would demand from each school the work it might be reasonably expected to do. While-one school could give an hour and a half to hand-work in, say, Standard 11, another might be able to give -only three-quarters of an hour. The present system involves so many returns that- require checking in the Board's office, and are, I understand, again checked in Wellington, that there seems to me to be an enormous waste of time involved. I must say that the inception of a new branch of education necessitated some such system, but the sooner it can now be superseded the better.3. Mr. Davidson.] In reference to the suggestion that the salaries of assistants in high schools should be increased, you say the minimum salary for a first assistant in any district should be £300?— Yes. 4. Would you allow such a salary- to assistants in very small district high schools where the attendance is about twelve? —That is a class of district high school I have not had much experience of. I know that the assistant would require to be well equipped if he is going to do any good work, and therefore I would say he should get the salary. 3. Do you think the establishment of such schools should be encouraged?— No. I think twelve is too small, and I would increase the minimum number of pupils required. 6. You spoke of the difficulty experienced by assistants of gaining promotion from these schools : would you approve of the Board having the right to appoint teachers in all schools under their control, as'in the case in Auckland and Wanganui ? —I believe in that system. 7. I take it you approve of one controlling body having charge of the primary, secondary, and technical education within their district? —Certainly; I cannot see any reasons against it, and I can see many for it.
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8. Do you think that woodwork instruction should be left until a boy has gained his proficiency certificate? —No. I think it should be taken in the Fifth and Sixth Standards. 9. Do I understand that you suggest as a means of avoiding this unnecessary clerical work in connection with returns that the payment for these subjects on a capitation basis should be abolished? —That is my opinion. I think the Department should be in a position now from its experience of the last few years to lay down a basis for granting a lump sum to the various provinces for carrying out the work. 10. Have you noticed that the percentage of schools taking manual work in the primary departments varies from 26 per cent, in one district to 97 per cent, in another?—l have not noticed that. 11. You suggested that the capitation basis of payment leads to strenuous efforts being made to gain capitation grants in certain districts and less strenuous efforts in other districts? — Yes, it does. 12. -So, really, these subjects may be looked upon in some districts as capitation winners? —Yes. 13. Mr. Wells.] 1 should like to know what you would make the minimum for a district high school as a reasonable number to carry a salary of £300? —1 should say eighteen, at any rate. I think the teacher who manages eighteen pupils and gives them all the education they require .would have all his work to do. 14. Do you think the present education districts might be enlarged?—l am quite of that opinion : some of them might be, at any rate. 15. Mr. Hogben.] Do I understand that you object to the payment of the grants for manual work on a capitation basis?—-No, I do not object to it on a per capita basis for the whole province : I object to it per class. 16. You would not pay the same grant in a district where 26 per cent, of the schools took manual work as you would in a district where 97 per cent, took manual work ? —I do not understand why that should be the case. I would make it compulsory, and leave it to the Inspectors to say how much should be taken in each school. 17. If that were the fact you would not give the same grant to the two districts? —That would have to be arranged so that the difference could not exist. 18. You would make the subject compulsory in order to get an easier way of paying the grants?—l would leave it to the Inspectors to carry out the work. 19. Are you aware that where pupils who are candidates for senior free places take woodwork that the certificate of the Board's Inspectors is accepted and the subject is given full weight in the examination? —I am not aware of that, 20. You are not aware there is a form supplied for that purpose and that that is the present practice?— No. William Sanderson Fitzgerald examined on oath. (No. 39.) 1. The Chairman.] You have been an Inspector under the Otago Board for a great number of years? —Eighteen years. 2. And before that you were what? —I was Rector of the Training College for sixteen years, and before that Rector of the Oamaru Grammar School for six years, and before that headmaster of a small country school in Canterbury for nine years. 3. Have you any suggestions to make for the better administration of education in the Dominion ? —I am not prepared to make an address, but there are one or two points in which I am interested. lam still very much interested in the training of our teachers —naturally, having been at the head of the Training College so long. When I was Rector of the Training College the syllabus for the teachers' instruction and examination was much simpler than it is at present. There were fewer subjects. I dare say I am right in saying that the examination-papers were quite as difficult as they are now, but, having fewer subjects, we were able to present our students for the certificate examinations with considerable certainty of success. In fact, failure, if you look at the back records of the Training College, was exceptional, and so we were able very materially to reduce the number of partially certificated or uncertificated teachers in the Otago schools. We were able to send teachers..throughout the length and breadth of New Zealand, and they were welcomed in almost every province. The point I wish to make is this : that the smaller number of subjects gave us time for practical work, and that practical work certainly told most effectively, not only on the students, but on the schools to which they were afterwards appointed. How the Training College is able now, with the number of subjects it has to tackle, to give the practical work that is necessary to secure efficiency for our young teachers I cannot tell. I do not see how I could arrange to give them anything like the practical work that I could do in the old days. I can give you one example : Every sixth week our students were distributed throughout the city and suburban schools, where they were welcomed by the head teachers and the assistants. They studied the methods of the teachers at the schools. Having made acquaintance with a class in the school, they took part in the teaching of that class under the supervision of the class-teacher. Before they left the school they taught a criticism lesson under the supervision of the headmaster, and the headmaster sent me in not only a report on that criticism lesson, but also a report on the work they had done during the week. We were immensely indebted to the loyal support given us by the head teachers and assistants in the city and suburban schools. I never heard that the practice of our students was any hindrance to the progress of the classes. If it was so it was never brought before me. The records of the examinations of the Otago schools will show that the practising school of the Training .College occupies no secondary position in status so far as examination results are concerned. I must say the Otago Education Board gave us every consideration in the appointment of our staff. I think in the appointment of every
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teacher on the practising staff as well as those in the training department I was consulted by the Board, and never once did they go contrary to my opinion. It was a heavy responsibility to place upon me but I gladly accepted it. In drafting the original regulations of the Training College I inserted a provision that the work done in the Otago University should be considered •as part of the work done in the Training College, and that the professors' reports should be accepted by the Board as sufficient evidence of the work having been done by the students. It was the first time, either in England, Scotland, or anywhere else, that 1 know of that such a provision was made in connection with the training of teachers. The Otago Board willingly accepted that when I laid my draft regulations before it. We know now what education in New Zealand owes to that provision. I would also like to say something in regard to the uncertificated teacher. My knowledge of the work of the uncertificated teachers leads me to say that too much is being made of their presence in the schools of the Dominion, and that scant justice is beingdone to many of them. To one who is unacquainted with the changed examination conditions it may seem strange that, notwithstanding the increased number of entrants to the training colleges, their higher literary status, and the higher efficiency of the colleges, the number of uncertificated teachers in the schools of the Dominion should be so large. Again, it may seem strange that, although the number of uncertificated teachers in the Otago schools is nearly one-sixth of the whole number, the efficiency of the schools should be so high—69 per cent. " excellent " to "good," and only 4 per cent, below "satisfactory." From this it is evident, that the majority of these uncertificated teachers are fairly well qualified for the duties they have undertaken. That need not surprise us when we consider that a fair proportion of them are trained and partially- certificated, and that but for a change in the examination conditions they would almost certainly have held at least the E certificate, a certificate held by between thirty and forty of the Otago teachers, many of whom deservedly occupy high positions in the service. A fair proportion of the remainder have come from the secondary departments of district high schools, and so faithfully practise the methods of their elementary teachers that the Inspector may identify by their methods the schools from which they have come. In the earlier days of the Otago Training College first-year students were required to take the E certificate examination and so become certificated. They were also required to take the Matriculation Examination, and so by success in both examinations secure the D certificate and entrance to the University. A few on entering held a partial pass for D and were required to complete their certificate. If prepared for the University they were encouraged to take one or possibly two of the classes. Now the certificate standard is much higher. E examination has been abolished, and the requirements for D and C have been materially increased. That the partial pass for D or C is a fair qualification for temporary appointment is evidenced by the Inspectors' report to the Education Board. Of the schools officered by uncertificated teachers comparatively few received an efficiency mark lower than " satisfactory." It is not necessarily- a disadvantage to a school to have a teacher with only a partial pass for certificate. It is an immense advantage to scholars to have a live teacher, and certainly the mental activity accompanying a reasonable amount of study for certificate will make for life in the school-work. 1 would urge that an uncertificated teacher who is making a reasonable effort towards securing a certificate, and presents a school or class in at least " satisfactory " condition, should not be subject to the 10-per-cent. reduction of salary, but should receive the full salary belonging to the grade of the school. Thomas Scott examined on oath. (No. 40.) I. The Chairman.] What position do you occupy? —I am Chairman of the Board of Managers of the Technical School in Dunedin. I have been connected therewith for a good many years. I have had nothing to do with primary education; my sole connection has been with technical education right through. My remarks therefore will apply to the control of the technical part of the teaching throughout the province, and not to the literary side. It is well known that a great many advocate one control for the whole education of the province or whatever district may be laid down. To that lam totally opposed. I consider it would not be to the advantage of technical education if such a change were made. On the Board of Management of the Dunedin Technical School we have various tradesmen, and those tradesmen are the backbone of the manual classes at that school. Until we got a carpenter on the Board the woodwork classes were a misnomer. It is only when you get practical ireir —blacksmiths, engineers, and carpenters —on that those classes become efficient and fulfil the purpose for which they were instituted. We have examiners outside those who are sent down from Wellington. We have tradesmen who examine the work of each individual class. Of course, there is no charge made for it. This was not the practice three or four years ago, and when we got a report made upon the work done, the report was to the effect that the woodwork was badly designed, was fudged, and not a credit to the teacher. However, that was soon rectified', and for the last two years 1 am happy to say as a tradesman myself that some of the work done in that school would be a credit to any tradesman. The examiner in plumbing said definitely this last year that some of the work done by the apprentices attending the plumbing class could not have been done better by some of the journeymen in the trade. Now, if you bring the whole thing under one control you do away with the advantage of having those practical men on the Board of Management. And w-e must not forget that the Technical School is to a certain extent kept up by voluntary contributions, and those subscribers have the right to appoint so-many members on the Board of Management. If this is put under the Education Board you will do away with the voluntary subscribers, and the interest now taken by those outside in technical education will die out, and the work will accordingly suffer. Within the last two years the percentage of scholars taking purely technical education has increased considerably. I suppose, speaking from memory, 50 per cent, of the scholars attending the school have been taking purely technical instruction, and the tendency is still in that direction as against the purely- literary.
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Now, the question of overlapping has been discussed a good deal lately. Personally, Ido not see how you are going to overcome that to any great extent. No matter what Board controls you will have a certain amount of overlapping. 1 will give an illustration : Some of our scholars at the Technical School were in the habit of going to the other school for drawing. Now, while they were away we lost control of them altogether, and we found that to be so unsatisfactory that in several instances we arranged to have the drawing given by the same master in the Technical School so far as we had the room available. We are of the opinion that the drawing in connection with the Technical School should be given in the Technical building. It is necessary for the control of the scholars attending the school. Then there is the question of free-place holders leaving school before their term is up. Last year the Dunedin Technical School lost in capitation about £300 from scholars leaving before the term was up. We have taken advice, and find that, although we may get the parents of those children to sign a declaration that in the event of their children not keeping up their attendance sufficiently to guarantee us capitation they will refund the amount due, we have no legal authority to enforce that. It is simply a moral obligation on the part of the parents. I think that is a point worth considering. I think some action should be taken to enforce payment of that amount. With regard to manual instruction, I consider that the teaching of woodwork in the ordinary schools is simply a farce. As a tradesman I can give my reasons. Until a boy has reached a certain age he is physically unfit to use the tool necessary for woodwork—that is, the jack-plane. 1 admit those in charge of the management try to overcome the difficulty by giving the boys smaller jack-planes than those used in the trade. Now, the carpenters in their trade use three planes—the largest is the trying-plane, the next the jack-plane, and the smallest the smoothing-plane. The last-named really requires more strength and effort to use than the jack-plane. If you look at a lot of the work done by those boys you find it very rough. The planing is a series of jumps, because the boys have not the strength to hold the tool in position. The work done at that stage is harmful rather than helpful, as it takes them a considerable time afterwards to unlearn what they have learned at the schools. Nine-tenths of the tradesmen in this town will tell you the same. I refer to woodwork only—in the primary schools. As regards cookery for the girls, 1 believe that to be beneficial. One of our greatest difficulties here is to get qualified teachers for the technical subjects, and our great want is instruction for teachers for the technical school; and I believe the day has arrived when provision should be made in the leading technical schools in the large centres for bringing up qualified teachers for teaching technical subjects. A great many of the subjects taught in the technical schools are not provided for in the district high schools. The tendency in the technical school is for each man to be a specialist in a certain subject, and he teaches the one subject all the year round in the various classes. For instance, take the domestic course alone—there is one man there teaching physiology alone to the different classes, so-many hours a week to each class. A great many scholars come to the Technical School for commercial education because they know there is a specialist in bookkeeping there to instruct them. This gentleman, who is a book-keeper in one of the big firms, can come in the evening and do good work. As regards the day school, it is impossible to get men who are in good positions to come and give instruction. Since the day school classes started we have, of course, more permanent teachers on the staff than we ever had before. In engineering we have now a full course. We have mechanics, the theory of machine-construction, mechanical drawing, and workshop practice, and we compel all the students to take the full course, leaving patternmaking sn optional subject. It will be seen, therefore, that any interference in the work of the Technical School by any outside body would lead to trouble. At present the Otago Education Board have no right to interfere with the Technical School work. It is all arranged from headquarters in Wellington, and in that respect there has been no trouble w-hatever. We have got all we have asked for, and we have got it in such a way that it has been of the greatest advantage to us. We have been most economical, and since the Government took over the control of this Department we have always had a margin on the right side. We have already been able to spend from £400 to £500 on plant and other necessary things. That is all I have to say, except that lam strongly opposed to any interference with the leading technical schools in the large centres by any other body, because the management is totally different from the management of an Education Board. 2. Mr. Wells.] Suppose the Board of Education were given control of primary, secondary, and technical education, if they had power to secure the services of such men as you speak of for assistance in technical work, would there be objection to that? —No, except that many of those men would not care to take subordinate positions under such a Board. 3. It would be an equal position as regards technical education? —Not if they had the right to interfere in the work of the school. I, for one, would not take any- secondary- position. 4. You are not a believer in the teaching of woodwork in the primary schools. Were you speaking from the tradesman's point of view or the educational point of view?— Both. 5. You think it is of no value from the educational point of view—training of hand and eye? —No. Training of hand and eye could be done better in other ways. Drawing and geometry would be of far more benefit to those lads in after-life. 6. Do you think this woodwork in the public schools has given boys a bent for trade rather than for clerkships and office-work? —I do not think so. I. would much prefer to take a boy into the joinery trade who had been taught no woodwork. The boy who had been taught woodwork would have to unlearn so much before he was of any use. As I have said, I approve of the teaching of cookery. 7. Mr. Kirk.] Would you. approve of the attendance at these technical schools being made compulsory? —No. I think the earnestness of the scholars would be reduced considerably, and there would be less attention to the work. A boy who was forced to go there against his own wish would do nothing, and that would have its influence upon the whole class.
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8. Mr. Pirani.] Do you know anything personally of the woodwork that has been done in the primary schools? —Yes. 9. Do you mean to tell this Commission as an expert that the woodwork done there shows signs of the jack-plane jumping on the work? —Yes. 10. Look at these pieces of woodwork [produced] : can you see any signs of jumping on that? —In the first place, there is not a piece of woodwork here which would show the marks of a plane. It is broken up into small sections, you see. You want a piece of wood about 4 ft. by 6 in. to judge of planing-work. We do not consider that work. As far as it goes it is right enough. This large piece shows faults. 11. Would you expect better work from the children in the Technical School of twelve to fourteen years of age?—No, because I do not think they are fit for it, 12. Do you mean to say it would be of no benefit to the boy undergoing it? —No;, it would be a disadvantage. 13. You told us just now that one of the difficulties of changing the management from the Board of Managers to the Education Board was that it would result in a decrease in voluntarysubscriptions?—Yes. The voluntary subscribers have the right to elect a certain number of the Board of Managers, and if there was outside control there would not be the same interest in the work from outside. 14. Do you know anything of the effect in other districts where the Board of Education has supreme control of technical education?—l know a little. 15. Do you not know that while in Dunedin your total subscriptions come to about £300, in little Wanganui, where the Education Board has control of technical education, they have been able to raise £4,000? —I do not think you are quite Correct, Last year our subscribers put up considerably over £1,000, and there are promises up to £3,800. We have set out to raise £5,000, and it will be raised this year. That is all we want. 16. Does it not strike you that if the control is changed people will not be less generous than at present?—lt depends entirely on the kind of management. 17. Do you not think one effect of a change of management to the Education Board would be to prevent overlapping of high schools with the technical schools, which would be an advantage to both?—l do not think it would prevent any overlapping. 18. Have you had any experience of technical education work outside Otago? —No. I have visited other places, of course. 19. Do you know that in the Auckland District they have raised in contributions nearly four times as much as in Dunedin? —I know they are always in trouble financially in Auckland over the technical-education question. 20. Then you think absolutely the technical school should be in the hands of people outside the Education Boards?—Y'es, under the control of the central authority. I do not believe in centralization locally at all. 21. The Chairman.] Is it not a fact that technical education in New Zealand owes its origin to local effort in Otago, when the people carried the burden on their own shoulders for years because the Education Boards and High School Governors would not look at it? You as a tradesman saydeliberately that manual instruction in the primary schools is worthless? —Yes.
Monday, 17th June, 1912. Frank Milner examined on oath. (No. 41.) 1. The Chairman.] You are Rector of the Waitaki Boys' High School? —Yes. I have been six years in my present position, and previous to that I was first assistant in the Boys' College, Nelson. I am an M.A. of the New Zealand University. I have to apologize for the absence of my Chairman, Mr. John Buckley, who proceeds Home to undergo medical treatment this week; and also for the absence of Miss Ferguson, Lady Principal of the Waitaki Girls' High 'School, who, owing to the loss of an assistant, finds it impossible to attend the Commission. First of all I wish to emphasize the necessity of the introduction of sound teaching on sex physiology into our schools. I am in hearty agreement with the resolution recently passed by the New Zealand Educational Institute affirming the desirability of the departmental appointment of expert lecturers on this delicate but vital matter. I am glad to see that the Wanganui School Committees' Association has indorsed this resolution. I know that Mr. Firth, the headmaster of Wellington College, is heartily in favour of the proposal. Speaking for myself, with full consciousness of the grave responsibilities attaching to a position when I am in loco parentis to 160 boarders, I can say that I should not dream of retaining such a charge unless I had a free hand in providing sound expert instruction on sexual hygiene. There can be no doubt that such teaching is best given through parental channels, but all my experience leads me to recognize reluctantly that parents shamefully neglect their obligations in this matter. If the generality even of parents were to follow out the advice given by the Hon. Edward Lyttelton's book " The Training of the Young in the Laws of Sex," there would be little left for the schools to do in this connection. A doctrine of pusillanimous reticence about their vital physiological processes defeats its own end. Nature provides such an active curiosity on the subject that unless right and clean instruction is given knowledge is gained in perverted and haphazard ways, and vitiated information often sullies for ever what should be perfectly sound and innocent. If the right presentation of the case of-the propagation of life is given first, it will futify a normally constituted boy's mind against all the perversions of pruriency. The recent manifesto of the British National Council of Public Morals attests the gravity of the matter. It represents the opinions of a very eminent body of men prominent in the spheres of religion, science, and education.
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Among the signatories are six Bishops, the heads of all the great Protestant Churches, Professors Sir W. Crookes, Sir T. Oliver, Sir William Ramsay, Sir Clifford Allbutt, Sir Victor Horsby, and Sjjns Woodhead, and Sir Thomas Clouston, &c. The manifesto expresses alarm at the low and degrading views of the racial instinct now being circulated. .Many causes are contributing to the evasion of the great obligation of parenthood and the degradation of the marriage tie. Attention is drawn to the corrupting influence of the circulation of pernicious literature which has to-day reached an extent and developed a subtle suggestiveness without parallel. In the words of the manifesto, " Our systems of education too frequently ignore the sacred and responsible functions which confront the young on reaching maturity. The tendencies of the age make it imperative that they should be taught to entertain high conceptions of marriage as involving duties to the future of the nation and of the race. The great truth must be enforced that the racial instinct exists not primarily for indvidual satisfaction, but for the wholesome perpetuation of the human family. Such physiological knowledge should also be imparted as should protect our youth from those who would seduce their innocence or trade upon their ignorance." The locus classicus on sexual hygiene is Chapter vi in Volume I of Professor Stanley Hall's monumental work on " The Psychology of Adolescence." He says that in his opinion scientific discussion of the subject is imperative for educators. It is a painful duty, but that affords no excuse for the criminal neglect of this department of sex physiology. In the case of bright and nervous children pubescence often dawns with fulminating intensity, and sweeps the boy into pernicious ways long before moral or even intellectual restraints are operative. Professor Stanley Hall's sane and scientific discussion of the whole subjects marshals a grievous array of evidence in support of his contention that public instruction in our schools is clamantly required. He shows how normal puberal manifestations constitute a distinct group of psychological phenomena which are only too well known and exploited by unscrupulous quacks. There can be no doubt that the false and morbid modesty bred by our hyper-sensitiveness in regard to sex matters is responsible for a terrible amount of remediable mental anguish in the young. The eminent mental specialist Sir Thomas Clouston, in the course of a recent speech delivered at the Mansion House, London, spoke of Professor 'Stanley Hall's work as a masterpiece worthy of careful study. I wish to congratulate the Department on the compilation and introduction into our schools of the wall temperance charts. In view of the advanced scientific teaching of the nature of alcohol given in all the schools of the United States, and in view also of the great manifesto signed by over 14,700 doctors of the United Kingdom and presented to the Department of Education, advocating among other things scientific instruction on the dangers of moderate drinking. I consider that every teacher who passes through our training colleges should be familiarized with the present scientific position as regards alcohol. The overwhelming laborating evidence in favour of total abstinence from alcohol which is contained in such publications as Sir Victor Horsley's "Alcohol and the Human Body," and Professor Sims Woodhead's lectures, and the record of Professor Kraepelin's classic experiments at Munich, should be familiar to every earnest teacher. The whole civilized world is awakening to a realization of the vital necessity of such instruction. In Germany the Kaiser, in America President Taft, and in England the Lord Chancellor, the Chief Justice, and the Lord Mayor of London have quite recently urged all teachers to practise and preach total abstinence from alcohol to their pupils. The authoritative pronouncements of men of the eminence of Sir Alfred Pearse Gould, Sir Victor Horsley, Sir Frederick. Treves, Sir Thomas Barlow, and Professor Sims Woodhead in England, and Professors Eliott (President, Harvard University), Starr Jordan (President, Leland Stanford University), Woodrow Wilson (President, Princeton University), and President Taft, in the United States, in strong favour of the instruction of the young in lifelong abstinence from alcohol begun in any form cannot be brushed aside by cheap cynicism. 'Such influential opinions illustrated by means of good lanternslides of strict scientific accuracy which are now available cannot fail to make a deep and abiding impression on the plastic minds of the young. I say without the slightest reservation that the scientific position for total abstinence from alcohol is now impregnable, and that it is our manifest duty to impress this great fact on the young. With regard to secondary-school teachers, I should like to say that I am of opinion that there should be some form of previous training. It is necessary that there should be some previous training for secondary-school masters before they are appointed to take up responsible positions. I think you will find that the average secondaryschool master coming fresh from the University gains his experience at the expense of his class for the first two or three years. I was myself appointed to a secondary school after taking my M.A. degree. I had had no training in the methods of teaching, and my first year or two was really a massacre of the innocents ; and that experience is corroborated by others in the teaching profession. I think therefore there should be some form of compulsory training in practical teaching for secondary-school masters equally with primary-school masters. With regard to free-pupil entrants into secondary schools, T am perfectly in agreement with those who advocate that there should be a guarantee of two years study, otherwise they should be catered for in the upper standards of the primary schools. There is no doubt that early leaving entails expense on the taxpayers, and also disorganizes the work of the school. AVith regard to the University Junior Scholarship Examinations, which dominate the curriculum of the school, I would debar girls from competing with boys. It is the stiffest educational ordeal in the Dominion, and I think it puts too severe a tax altogether on the relatively more complex and highly organized nature of a girl. I would consequently advocate that a certain number of scholarships should be reserved for girls, and that in their course mathematics or science should be eliminated, the candidates to make a selection out of the two. In the distribution of marks in the scholarship examinations I would allocate more to science. T think that experimental science is a subject of the very highest importance. If at the same time certification is demanded of the headmaster of. practical lab«>-atory work, I think science should be on an equality with English and mathe-
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matics. I would be inclined to reduce Latin to 1,000 marks, and advocate that history and geography should be put on the same mark as Latin. The allocation of these Junior Scholarship marks is undoubtedly a factor in determining the time given to the subjects in the secondary schools. It is made a bit of a fetish in New Zealand schools, and consequently I think the allocation of marks should be very carefully considered. In connection with the secondary-school curriculum, "I consider that Latin is a vastly overrated educational agency. We are not yet at the consummation of that healthful evolutionary process which has been freeing us from educational bondage to the past. At one time the classics dominated the whole curriculum. At the present day, at any rate, in New Zealand, we regard the study of Greek as a palaeontological curiosity; but, to use Lord Rosebery's phrase, we still look upon the Latin grammar with gloomy respect. Although I am a classical Honours graduate, educated in a classical atmosphere, I reduced the term devoted to thai subject to a minimum in my own school, and unless the requirements of University examination or professional course necessitate its study, I always advise my boys to take up alternative subjects — i.e., commercial units, agriculture, experimental science, &c. I have been teaching Latin for fifteen years, and see no reason to change the poor opinion of its educational value as a secondary-school subject which I formed fully ten years ago. It would be a waste of time to repeat the stock arguments in favour of the retention of Latin. Suffice to say, in my opinion, one's practical experience fails to substantiate them. I know of no other subject in the curriculum that breeds such intellectual cynicism and distaste. I have never been able to see what superlative educational virtue resides in the arid struggle through Latin-accidence with but a dusty perspective of Csesar ahead. About 5 per cent, of those who take Latin in our secondary school reach University scholarship standard, and then alone have any chance of even a bowing acquaintance with Latin literature. And after all when a man does take Honours in Latin, what superlative mental advantages does he gain? Latin literature is a limited narrowhorizoned paltry thing when compared with Greek or English literature. Putting Catullus and Lucretius apart, one finds hardly anything in Latin of genuine nature, inspiration, or power. In most of the literature, equally with the philosophy, is a poor imitation of Greek. It has been my experience that the departmental valuation of subjects is very just, and based on liberal and progressive modern ideas. Personally I think that the conservation of our University Senate is responsible for the undue valuation attached to Latin. The subject is not necessary for a thorough command of the English language. What advantages it does possess are entirely outweighed by the fact that its retention in such a prominent place on the time-table thwarts the adequate treatment of more vital subjects. To me it seems an extraordinary thing that the General Medical Council insist on Latin for the Medical Preliminary and omit chemistry and physics from the scope of the examination altogether, although the two subjects are far and away the most important in the first part of the medical course. If in prescribing Latin they lay the flattering unction to their souls that this is a genuine culture subject, I am afraid that results do not tally with this supposition. 1 should like to see Latin always an elective subject provided with good alternatives. It should never be compulsory except for law examinations. A multiplicity of subjects looks imposing in a syllabus, but encourages a scattered dilettantism, and is responsible for lack of mental concentration and pretentious shallowness. With Latin eliminated or subordinated there would be ample time for the thorough treatment of history and geography, two subjects of primary importance. The inclusion of questions in general history and geography in the matriculation English paper was a very wise step. I look to the Department to do the same for the Civil Service "English, and not to neglect New Zealand history when they do so. I am strongly in favour of the vocational tendency of modern education as interpreted by the Central Department. I consider that the fears expressed as to the dominance of utilitarianism and practical needs over true cultural education are groundless. English and English literature, combined with an adequate treatment of history (especially on the constitutional, social, and Imperial sides), and of geography (especially on the human side), provides an inexhaustible wealth of the best cultural material, which, in the hands of an efficient teacher, gives an inspirational uplift and a mental breadth and lasting intellectual interest to the pupils. Just as the Moseley Commission found it to be the case in the United States, so with us, English liberally interpreted must be the heart and centre of our educational system. There are unlimited potentialities of cultural and humanizing work in English literature. In regard to history, we want to fight carefully against any*' narrow philological treatment, and also against the fetish of annotated editions. I Believe that the humanizing quality of English literature is what we should make the primary aim in the teaching of English. I would also emphasize the oral teaching of English in the primary and secondary schools. I do not think that a secondary school is one worthy of the name unless it has a good debating society in which the boys have an opportunity of discussing social, national, and Imperial questions. In America this is made a big point of in the curriculum of English. I consider that history has very great potentialities indeed, and I think it is a mistake to regard history and geography as studies for merely exercising the retentive faculties. I think there is great ignorance of the whole of the colonial portion of the British Empire, and if every teacher who takes history in our secondary and primary schools was conversant with books of the type of Captain Mahan's " Influence of Sea Power," and would read magazines like the Bound Table and Dr. Dillon's articles in the Contemporary, for instance, and were to extract the living information in those stores, I am quite sure history could be vitalized to an extent that is not done to-day in the majority of schools. I am sure that with the teaching of history we should also add the teaching of civics. In this way we could give the boys a live grasp of modern questions, and educate them for the efficient use of the suffrage in the future. I think as a matter of fact that every boy who goes out of our schools should be a sane Imperialist, and should have a lasting interest in that from the study of history and the way it is presented to him by his masters. To me the subject seems one of endless possibilities,
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Along with it I should have in every school a Navy League. I think that is a very great educational agency in the life of a school, and is able to put before the boys questions of the very greatest interest, and to enlist their sympathies in a way that would hardly be believed by the synic who pooh-poohs these things in everyday life. In dealing with geography and history, I think we can bring the boys face to face with the big questions of the hour—lmperial federation, preferential tariff, ententes and alliances, and so on. All these subjects can really be made part of history and geography in secondary schools, and that is why I claim they should have more attention paid to them, and should have a greater number of marks allotted to them in the Junior Scholarship curriculum. To teach geography and history thoroughly will give the boys a lastinginterest. It has been said by dignitaries at Home that the average English school product can speak of nothing but school topics, athletics, and things of a narrow horizon like that, but I think we should aim at giving the boys a wide outlook. I am a strong believer in pictorial illustration, and would strongly advise the Department to purchase 10,000 slides from the best firms, and lend them out, to the various Education Boards or schools, so that they might be utilized by means of the magic lantern for teaching geography. I know that the employment of these means vitalizes the lessons to an extraordinary degree. I have 6,000 slides myself, and they are in constant use in the teaching of science, history, and geography. I certainly think that history and geography liberally interpreted should be compulsory for teachers' certificates. I would also include a proper course of physiology and hygiene. This is a most important subject. It should embrace instruction in sanitation, first aid, rescue and resuscitation of the drowning, and on the nature and effects of alcohol. I consider that the headmaster of every* secondary school should be required to certify that every pupil who stays with him more than, say, a year has been taught to swim and to rescue and resuscitate the apparently drowned. Failing a medical certificate of physical disability, this should be required of every boy. This vocational course has undoubtedly come to stay in the secondary schools. At Waitaki over forty boys, all of whom are going on the land, have taken up this course, comprising English, history, geography, arithmetic, chemistry, agricultural botany, principles of agriculture, agricultural chemistry, and practical field-work; mathematics is optional. There is an agricultural laboratory in addition to an experimental-school farm of 4 acres. This year we are adding dairy-work, wool-classing, and carpentry to the course. I have no hesitation in saying that the course has thoroughly justified its inception. It enlists the full mental energies of the class and generates in this lastingscientific interests. Personally, I have no fears that the tendency of our education is too prominently practical or utilitarian. The whole of my academic training was of a purely abstract and theoretical type. Since taking up the profession of a teacher I have come to realize that the so-called vocational subjects can convey as sound a niental training in accuracy and the other qualities as their sacrosanct elders in the syllabus. 2. Mr. Pirani.] How many free-place pupils have you in your school?— The Secretary to the Board has supplied me with the following statement dealing with attendance and salaries, as these are matters which fall within his province: "The total number on the roll this term is 236, of whom 156 are boarders and 80 are day boys. The total number of free pupils is 136, of whom 72 are boarders and 64 are day boys. The average number of pupils per master is 295. The utmost amount of capitation receivable by the Boys' School this year (making due allowance for pupils falling out during the course of the year) will be £1,700. The total amount payable in salaries to the staff this year is £2,261, consequently the statement made that the capitation of the free pupils pays almost for the education of paying pupils is incorrect. It may be pointed out in regard to the staff that the Rector does full-time work, being responsible for the whole of the English, Latin, French, and history of the two upper forms of the school, and the staff of eight is therefore virtually nine. The following are the salaries paid: Rector, £500; first assistant, £350; second assistant, £325; third assistant, £300; fourth assistant, £275; fifth assistant, £175; sixth assistant, £150; seventh assistant, £150; eighth assistant, £36: total, £2,261. The above figures, of course, apply to the Boys' School only." 3. Can you give any reason why the amount paid in salaries in the Waitaki High School is the lowest in New Zealand ?—I am not aware that it is the lowest. . . 4. In 1910 you had 185 pupils, and paid £1,900 in salaries. In the Wanganui Girls' College they have one pupil more than you, and they pay £2,145, and it is the same right through. Do you think the salaries paid to yotuvassistants are sufficient? —The salaries are all right. The roll-number has gone up very rapidly in the last five years, but the staffing has not gone up quite so fast proportionately. This year we have added an additional master, but the roll has not increased very much since then. There is not accommodation for a great number of pupils. 5. In 1910 you only had seven teachers for 185 pupils: do you think that sufficient?—No, and I told the Board it was not. We have an additional master this year. 6. Christ College, with only seven more pupils, has eleven assistants, as against your seven? I am quite prepared to put our results against Christ College results. 7. You think you are sufficiently staffed? —No, I do not; but we cannot do everything at once. As soon as wo get additional class-rooms we will appoint additional teachers. 8. Is there any reason why your tuition fees should be the lowest in New Zealand—£7 10s. ?— Ido not think there is any reason at all. As a matter of fact, the Board consider it is a democratic thing to make the charge as low as possible. 9. You would make the free-place pupils pay for the paying pupils. Is not that what it amounts to? Your income from the Government is £2,560, and you only pay £1,900 in salaries so that, as a matter of fact, your free-place pupils are paying for your paying pupils : is not that so?— Certainly, the Board do not draw 7 a great revenue from the paying pupils. I think the statement that the Secretary has prepared shows that that criticism is inapplicable to the school as. it stands to-day.
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10. Do you not think it is a fair thing that the paying pupils should pay for their tuition?— f have no objection to raising the fees to paying pupils. 11. I notice that the amount contributed by the Government to your institution in 1910 was nearly £800 more than you paid in salaries : where does that £800 go ?- —In buildings and equipment. 12. It is not contributed for buildings, surely? —Every penny- that is over after paying salaries is devoted to equipment and buildings. 13. So that the free-place payments made to you are really more than sufficient for the return given to free-place pupils in the shape of tuition I —We have been receiving the limit of capitation from the Government, and every penny of it has been devoted to the equipment which the freeplace pupils themselves enjoy. 14. Have you any idea of the amount of voluntary contributions on which you get subsidy from the Government? —£500 in 1910. 15. How was that contributed?—lt was a donation to the Board. 16. By one individual? —Yes. 17. Who by?— Myself. 18. What was your salary from the Board of Governors? —£500. 19. The whole of your salary was given to the Board as a donation? —Yes. 20. Do you think that is a fair way of getting money from the Government?— Most decidedly. 21. Do you think if the Board of Governors gave you £1,000 salaiy it would be a fair thing to pay it back to the Board and get £1,000 from the Government by way of subsidy on it? —Any donation that is given to the school receives a pound-for-pound subsidy- from the Government. 22. This matter of donations is a very vexed question right through, and it is said —and said with some truth —that it is being worked : I want to know if this is a case where it is being worked. Supposing a salary of £2,000 was given you, do you think it would be fair that you should hand that back, and that the Board of Governors should get another £2,000 on top of that? —It is no use putting a hypothetical case like that. 23. Well, come back to the £500 then? —If I feel that I can afford it, why should I not hand the money over to the Board of Governors. They have never asked me for a penny. 24. The system in the Wanganui Collegiate School at one time was that the Principal received no salary, but received the profits that were derived from the boarding fees : in your institution the sytsem is that the Principal received no salary because he gives it all back and gets another £500 from the Government for his institution ? —Of course, the Board of Governors get £500 on the £500 which I present to them, but as a matter of fact I received the salary from the Board, and at the first I did not give it back to them. There were only- thirty boarders when I first went to the school, and now there are 160, and we could get 200 if we had the accommodation. All the . profits of the boarding establishment are mine. As a matter of fact, I did not want all the money, and handed over a certain amount to the Board. I am quite prepared to let the Board run the establishment, but they will not be bothered with all the details. For every pound I have handed over to the Board on which a subsidy- was obtained I have spent £2 on the school which did not earn any subsidy. 25. Mr. Davidson.] In your opinion, how do the pupils entering your school now compare with those who entered five or six years ago ?—I consider they are quite up to the standard of those who entered five or six years ago. 26. How do you find the free-place pupils?—l find them well equipped. We find that the standard of pass or certificates of proficiency vary in different districts. We have thirty pupils from the North Island, and we have them from all parts of New Zealand, and we find that the standard of efficiency varies with the different districts. 27. The Chairman.} Have you any pupils from Wanganui?—Yes, some; and seven from. Hawera. 28. Mr. Thomson.] I suppose a great many of the forty who take the agricultural course come from other parts of the Dominion ?—Yes. 29. Mr. Poland.] That is forty out of 250?— Yes. 30. Would you be in favour of compelling all the boys in your school to take the agricultural course? —No. 31. You have 160 boys who are boarders : what fee do you charge?— The fee is £16 Bs. per term. It is eighteen guineas, including board and tuition, and sixteen guineas for those under fourteen. 32. How do you deal with a free-place pupil who wishes to board?—He would receive a rebate of the tuition fee; £2 10s. for the term. 33. Mr. Kirk.] Do you find that the free-place pupils coming to you at the present time have a reasonably adequate know-ledge of history and geography? —Far from it. 34. You do not think that those subjects have that time spent on them in the primary schools that they should have? —That is so. 35. Do you teach such subjects as typewriting and shorthand in your school?— Both are extras, taken outside the ordinary school-time., 36. You would not approve of their being taken in the ordinary school-time?— Yes, I should. 1 am considering their introduction as a commercial course now, and I very likely shall do so in the near future. 37. Without sacrificing any of the fundamental subjects?— Yes. I insist on every one taking geography, history, English, and arithmetic. 38. Typewriting and shorthand are subjects that can easily be taken after a child has left school? —Yes; but if you take a specialized course you have one or two periods in the day vacant which could be well filled up in that way.
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39. Do you advocate teaching sexual physiology only in the secondary schools? —No. I wish my remarks on that subject to apply to the primary schools as well as the secondary. -<■*■ 40. At what age would you teach it to boys?— Just before they reach the age of puberty. 41. Would you allow any teacher to teach that subject?—l should like to see experts appointed. 42. Do you think it is possible for any expert to deal with the subject in globo for a class of forty boys ?—Yes, I have heard it done, and done well. 43. Is it not a fact that the best work is done privately, by interviewing each boy singly? — Both forms of work should be adopted. 44. Do you think there is any danger?— Yes, but the danger of reticence is infinitely- greater. 45. Is it not possible for you to detect in any boy in your class any symptoms which might indicate to you that he should have some teaching? —You may, and then again you may not. There are any amount of cases where something perfectly natural and spontaneous might be troubling a boy, and their natural shyness and modesty will cause them to hide it and endure agony over something that is quite natural. 46. In such cases, would not teaching in the principles of hygiene be sane? —No, I do not think so. It is a matter that must be detailed and specific. 1 do not think that general talk is any good whatever. As a matter of.fact, it is a department generally evaded by every teacher. Something ought to be done; of that I feel absolutely certain. 47. You give it as your considered opinion that the teaching of boys in a class would be of advantage?— Certainly. Of course, it must be undertaken by earnest men thoroughly conversant with the subject. I think it should be combined also with private conversation. 48. You do not think that private conversation should be the main factor?—l would not say it should not be the main factor, but I should have a public lecture on the matter as well. 49. In regard to history, do you find that the boys take kindly to complex Imperial subjects? —Yes. I get a splendid response. 50. In the way you are doing it very good results are obtained? —It is not for me to speak. AH I know is that in their debating they have a very high standard indeed. I am very well satisfied with the results that have come from it. 51. Have you a library at the school?—We have over two thousand volumes. It is a general library, with all the leading works of reference and newspapers of the day. I consider a newspaper is as good a text-book as you can get. 52. Are the books largely availed of by the boys?— Yes. 1 keep a reading list, and take down the names of the books lent to each boy each term. 53. What value do you attach to the library?—A very high value indeed. I consider that every boy should know how to use a library, how to choose books, how to extract information from books, and so on. I think that is a very valuable part of a boy's instruction. 54. What physical exercise do your boys get?— Before breakfast they have half an hour's physical exercise—that is, the boarders —consisting of gymnastics alternating with Swedish drill. In addition to that they have an hour's military drill for the whole school during the week, and for the boys who do not take gymnastics before breakfast there are gymnastics after school. 55. Mr. Wells.] You spoke of the need for the training of secondary-school teachers : would you recommend that that training should be undertaken in the training colleges? —I think so. As a matter of fact, I have no definite scheme to lay before the Commission. 56. Do you think it would be any advantage if one body had control of all the education in the district, with the exception of the University?—l should always like to see local control, but I really have not_ considered the matter thoroughly. I think with local Boards we are likely to excite local patriotism. 57. Do you make any attempt to guide the reading of the boys in connection with the library? —Yes. I draw up a reading list, a printed copy- of which is given to each boy, and the masters also inculcate in the boys what are the best books to read. 58. Mr. Hogben.] How many boys have you at present?—2so. 59. How many come from the district in which the school is—North Otago and South Canterbury?—l should say, about half of them. 60. That isyather a bigger proportion than is usual, is it not?— Yes. lam rather surprised that Oamaru, with a population of five thousand, can send us as many as eighty-nine day boys. 61. And the outlying districts send-thirty or thirty-five more?— Thirty, I should say. _ 62. What renders additions to the school necessary ?—Pupils from outside the North Otago District. 6 63. Assuming that it is desirable to impart instruction in sex physiology, do you think that the person who gives the instruction should have expert physiological knowledge ?—lt depends on what is meant by expert physiological knowledge. I do not think expert medical knowledge is necessary. b 64. Do you think he should be a man of high moral character ?—-Certainly; that is absolutely necessary. 65. Do you think he should have a knowledge of and sympathy with boys such as is possessed by a good teacher ?—That is very desirable. 66. Do you think he should have a personal knowledge of the boys with whom he deals of such •a kindthat they will look upon the special teacher almost as a parent?—l think it would be better if he did, but I do not think it is a necessity. 67. Do you think if he did not possess that last characteristic his instruction ought to be confined to generalizations?— Let him have a general discussion first, and see each boy individually afterwards. That is what I advocate. 68. I think you said that general exhortations are of no value whatever : have they no value in raising the moral ideas of the boys in the direction of purity?—ln many cases the general
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exhortations go off a boy like water off a duck's back. In these matters I believe in frank and detailed physiological treatment. 69. Do you not think the influence of the prefects in secondary- schools is a most valuable part of school life? —Certainly, it is of very great value. 70/ Do you think the mass of the boys who learn Latin in the secondary schools read sufficient Latin literature to get a feeling of the spirit of it? —Far from it, in my experience. 71. If the mass of the boys do not learn Latin, would you think it desirable that they should take a course of foreign, literature in English?— Yes, I should think it would be desirable. It would be corrective, and it would have a broadening mental tendency, and I think it would lead them afterwards to read by means of translations the literature of Greece and Rome and other foreign nations. 72. Which do you think is the most likely way in which the average boy will acquire a taste for this literature —by means of good translations or by a school course of a foreign language?— Undoubtedly, by translations. 73. The Chairman.] Touching the necessity for teaching civics in the schools, I take it you would be greatly in favour of holding debates on public questions in all secondary schools, and would you go so far as to say in all primary schools?—l am afraid my opinion in regard to primary- schools would not be of much value. I should certainly think, though, that in the oral work taken in the upper standards of the primary schools the boys should be able to discuss the more elementary matters dealing with some of the broader phases of citizenship, and some of the international social questions of the day. 74. Would it surprise you to know that in this district in the past, when the syllabus was not so complex, that such a course was taken in some of our schools with great advantage to the pupils —that it is, as a matter of fact, acknowledged by them in many parts of the world that their success in life was largely due to the advantages they gained on these speech days? —I can quite believe it. 75. Therefore, being a wholesome study, you think it should be persevered with? —I certainly do. I know in regard to my own school that old boy 7 s have written and told me that they have found the study of civics and questions of the day that they had at the school of great value to them in University and business life. 76. Then, you would favour a course of instruction in civics in the Sixth Standard of the primary schools? —Certainly. 77. Is the primaiy-school course, in your opinion, a sufficient preparation for the work of secondary schools now?—As a matter of fact, I think that the study of history and geography might be augmented. But I am not prepared to say that the pupils who come to us from the primary schools are worse equipped than they were when I first came to Waitaki, because my experience is fairly limited. lam one of the youngest headmasters in New Zealand. 28. In your opinion, would it not conduce to the benefit of national education if a Council of Education were set up to advise the Minister on all questions relating to what I may term our educational code, and to supervise, as it were, the instruction given in the primary, secondary, and technical schools of the Dominion? —I am not prepared to say it would. As a matter of fact, as far as I see it as a secondary-school master, the administration by the Department seems to be very sound and progressive. 79. Can you tell me what proportion of the pupils of your school take the agricultural course, and the districts those who do so are drawn from ?—There are forty-eight boys taking the course, and they come from—North Otago, 21; South Otago, 10; Marlborough, 1; West Coast, 1; Southland, 1; Canterbury, 10; and North Island, 4 : making a total of 48. 80. Are you acquainted with the position that Denmark occupies as a producer ?—Yes. 81. Is it fair to say that the success of Denmark as a producer is largely due to the quality of the agricultural instruction given to the pupils in the high schools? —I am sorry to say lam not acquainted with the course of instruction given in the high schools of Denmark. But I am strongly of opinion that if the agricultural course is properly taken up, with adequate laboratories for experimental work and adequate room for field experimental work, under expert supervision, it will make a big difference for the better in the primary industries in the years to come. I consider that the vocational course introduced by the Department is of very high value, and will ultimately justify itself in the development of our primary industries. William John Morrell examined on oath. (No. 42.) 1. The Chairman.] What is your position?—l am Rector of the Otago Boys' High School, and have held that position for the last six years. Before that I w 7 as chief master of classics and English in the Auckland Grammar School. I have been teaching for over twenty years—for the last fifteen years in the Dominion. I have also made a considerable study of the history and theory of education. lam an M.A. of Oxford University, and late Scholar of Balliol College. I wish first to say a little about primary education. As to the cost of primary education, and as to details which can only be judged by those engaged in the daily working of the system, I shall offer no opinion. I shall only speak of those general aspects which have come within my view as a secondary teacher and headmaster, receiving each year a large number of boys who have passed through the primary schools, and as one both personally and professionally- interested in education. Speaking broadly, and judging mainly from the pupils who join us with Sixth Standard proficiency certificates (virtually all our new entrants), I believe that the results of the system are satisfactory, and that the work of the primary teacher, considering all the circumstances, has been well done. Of the two most important subjects, I should say that the arithmetic is decidedly better done than the English. As regards the latter, my impression is that in many cases there has been too little practice in reading for understanding, so as to appreciate the general drift of what is read and
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that too much attention has been given to isolated "words and meanings": thus both thought and imagination are insufficiently trained. From this point of view, I should think it better to let the Sixth Standard at least have one continuous reader, which the pupil might be expected to get through at home, only portions being taken in school, with general questions on the rest. This would also tend to foster a love of reading, and to develop the power of grasping what is read as a whole—a most important thing, reacting on the work in most school subjects. The neglect of history is a most serious blot. Few boys know anything worth mention about this really vita] subject, the exceptions being generally boys who are distinct lovers of reading. There is, however, another important exception : thanks to the Otago Navy League, and to the teachers taking up its essay scheme, the greater names at least in our naval history are usually familiar. The syllabus in itself appears to be quite satisfactory, if the pupils really acquired a knowledge of its topics. Such knowledge would seem to depend partly on the habit of " reading for understanding," mentioned above, and still more on the living interest given to the subject by the teacher, who must therefore himself be able to vivify and enlarge the matter contained in the book. History should, in my opinion, be a compulsory subject for all teachers. I am convinced that what is really required to raise the historical teaching in primary and secondary schools alike to a higher level all round is the establishment of a chair of history at one of the universiay colleges. The example would soon be followed elsewhere; history would be more adequately represented in the University curriculum ; and the influence of the students so trained would be quickly felt in our schools. As regards geography, the mathematical geography required in Standard VI is too hard, and appears to be profoundly uninteresting to most boys. My own feeling is that it would be advisable to reduce it and to lay more stress on the human aspects of the subject. Geography is another subject which would be much advanced by being treated as a University subject, a thing which should be perfectly feasible, in more than one way. The great advance made in England in the teaching of geography of late years is largely due to the lectures and work of men like Professors Maekinder and Lyde and Dr. Mill. Another subject recognized in England, Germany, and other countries as of high culture value, and one which in my opinion is far from satisfactory in most of our schools, is vocal music. I believe that more careful attention should be given to this, and in connection therewith to habits of clear enunciation and of correct and pleasing delivery of word-sounds. These criticisms, which I offer with due diffidence, are not to be regarded as invalidating the generally favourable opinion above expressed. The} 7 merely point out the directions in which I should personally look for improvement. The syllabus is, I believe, a good one, and represents a well planned effort, along modern lines, to make the children think, and to effect a well-balanced development of their powers. Ido not share in the condemnation of hand-work expressed by some secondary teachers and others; on the contrary, I think it should be, when properly taught, a valuable element in all primary education. Nor do I see that any of the subjects in the syllabus can well be dispensed with. It is thought by some whose opinions I greatly respect that there has been a falling-off in the quality of the primary-school product of late years, and that the pupils now entering the high schools are inferior to those who came to us, say, ten or fifteen years a,go. Ido not personally agree with this view, and, though it is only during the last six years that I have had full opportunities of direct contact with such pupils, I am confirmed in the more favourable opinion by the genera] trend of a discussion on the point at the Secondary Conference of 1908. I. think that the comparison is often unconsciously made between the picked pupils of fifteen years ago and the average pupils of to-day, when the doors of the high schools were more widely opened. The fairer comparison is between the general level of the firstyear forms (excluding preparatory classes) then and now, and this would," 1 believe, show an improvement rather than a falling-off. We must also take into account that the emphasis, so to speak, has to a certain extent shifted. Less grammar may be known by the better pupils, for instance (and no doubt with many the grasp of grammatical principles is not what it might be); but there are compensations, and I think that, take it all round, the intelligence has been no less well developed. I am decidedly in favour of a moderate amount of home-work in the higher standards. It should, I think, never exceed an hour per evening, and might be less. But I look on it as a valuable means of developing self-reliance and of ensuring permanent results in a subject like history, for instance. It should also foster the habit of reading. As regards written exercises, I would strongly deprecate the habit of insisting on an artificial, as distinct from a reasonable, standard of neatness, with constant use of the ruler, profusion of red-inE lines, and the like. This is psychologically a mistake. The cost under the head of " Secondary Education " to the State funds has no doubt greatly increased of late years. In 1910 it was £11 os. lid. per free pupil. Even adding the proportion of cost derived from endowments, this appears to be only slightly over £13 —a slim which is, I believe, well under the cost in England, for instance, and can scarcely be thought excessive. I make no attempt to go into comparative figures, which will no doubt be given by the Inspector-General from much fuller knowledge. I believe that good value is obtained for the money; and I am confident of this : that greater efficiency will hardly be obtained without increased expenditure. The main requirements for such increased efficiency, on a large scale, are, in my opinion, increased staffing and the training of secondary teachers. Both of these imply money. (1.) Staffing: According to the secondary returns for 1910, the average number of pupils per teacher was 209. Averages are, however, often misleading, and the lowness of this is probably accounted for by the number of small schools. In the larger schools, like our own, the proportion is much larger. In my own school it is now over 29. The Secondary Conference of 1910 unanimously resolved that it should be at most 25 per assistant; and this is a very moderate standard. Unduly large classes in secondary, as in primary, schools seriously affect the nature of the teaching and the progress of the pupils. With regard to training, I believe the training of secondary-school teachers for secondary teaching would be an immense step in advance, but a special coarse certainly be required l«v their training. The primary
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course would, in my opinion, he almost entirely irrelevant. The present primary-school course, as far as I can see, is mainly useful as regards secondary teachers for such matters as discipline and the handling of classes. It gives a man who lias been through it some practice in the method of teaching classes; but at the present time I do not hesitate to say that I would just as soon have an able man who has had no training at all, and do my best to train him myself. Of course, one cannot do that in a way in which it would be done by a secondary training college. At present when a man comes you try to show him how to approach a subject, and so on; you listen, as far as time permits, to his lessons; and at times in subjects that you feel at home in you take a lesson in front of him; and you direct his attention to suitable literature. There is now a really good body of literature upon the methods of teaching the different secondary subjects, and a great deal can be done by an able man who will make an earnest attempt to familiarize .himself with these. At the same time, it is certainly not true so far as my Board is concerned —I am. speaking of the last six or seven years—that training is considered of no value, or that the most brilliant scholar is necessarily appointed. As a matter of fact, I think of the eight assistants who have been appointed since I have been here, three, if not four, have been through the training college, and four at least have had previous experience in primary teaching. But the whole method of teaching in a primary school and in a secondary school is different in many respects, especially if the primary pupil has no home-work, and is what I should call " spoon-fed." There is a tendency to spoon-feed in the secondary school accordingly. It is most important that the pupils in secondary schools should, so to speak, prepare the lessons in most subjects in order that the teacher may work in the main lines, and teachers who come only with experience in primary schools would be liable to err in that respect. I may mention that the best young assistant I have had at the high school during my term was a man —Mr. Adams—who had no previous training at all —he is now a lecturer in the Otago University—but he was a man of high ability, and made a real effort to appreciate one's desires. He also made a considerable study of pedagogic literature at the high school. The suggestion that all secondary-school teachers should have experience in a primary school is, to my mind, absurd. I doubt if one secondary headmaster could be found to affirm that; neither does it coincide with the practice in other countries. In my opinion, the course of training adopted for secondary teachers should be different. Men should have a one-year course after their degree. 1 believe that is the practice adopted in many centres in the old country. A vocation course for secondary teachers should be of considerable advantage. I understand there are financial difficulties in the way of establishing a course in training colleges for secondary teachers, but something might possibly be done by following out the suggestion made by one witness and attaching senior students to secondary schools for a time for the purpose of observation. In science subjects, at any rate, they could give valuable help. I believe something is being done in this direction in at least one of the large schools of the Dominion. With regard to free places and scholarships, I should certainly like to see an advance in the average length of stay of the free pupils, which with us amounts to something over two years —about two years and one term. I think the figures for the whole of the Dominion are somewhat higher. Taking last year's figures and they are not very different from the others—l find that 24 per cent, drop out at the end of the first term in my own school. Ido not regard that as being a bad figure. There is a certain number of misfits, of course, who drop out at a comparatively early period, and in these cases it is- best for all concerned that they should drop out. At the same time, most of the 24 per cent, are certainly boys who might have profited by a further stay. They have probably been taken away in most cases through the attraction of immediate earning and the inducements offered by business men to get them. There is a great demand for young boys in the offices. The figures I have quoted appear to be considerably better than those in the American States. I think the Inspector-General has pointed out that in one big American State the figure is about 48 per cent. In the face of that, and considering, so far as my own school is concerned, there is a slight heightening of the age of leaving, I do not think there is need for any extraordinary step in the matter; neither do I agree with the suggestion that we should bind down parents of pupils who hold free places to keep their boys for two years at the school on penalty of refunding the money. That would be a fairly heavy sum. For two years the fees would be £20, and if a boy left at the end of one year it would mean a refund of £10. In my opinion that would be a serious bar to poor pupils, and it would mean barring out some pupils who would be of considerable value to the school, and who would stay considerably longer than one year. 1 would sooner trust to the growth of public opinion in the matter. A large proportion of these pupils come from a class which has been accustomed for generations to let boys go to work early. We must not, therefore, be in a hurry. A financial guarantee would tend, so far as I can see, to drive pupils artificially into the technical schools. At the same time lam in favour of exacting such guarantees from the parents of scholarship-holders. I myself proposed that to the Otago Board about four years ago. I pointed out that boys had a scholarship, and held it while merely looking out for an appointment and then resigned it, thus barring out other promising pupils who would have continued their course. -But the Board declared that the suggestion was entirely unpractical. I may say I am strongly against the abolition of scholarships. It is said that in other countries there are no scholarships, and that the giving of free education for two years ought to be enough. But the fact is that it is not enough. The complaint is that a large proportion of promising pupils drop out too early. Surely we should not now, in the face of this, diminish the attractions to them to stay. In the present state of public opinion I believe that scholarships are necessary, and that they return good value to the State by inducing promising boys to continue their education T doubt whether any secondary teacher of position is in favour of their abolition. Perhaps that i« an exaggeration, but the matter was fully discussed by the Secondary Conference in 1910, and the proposal was there made that scholarships should be abolished, and it was defeated by a very large majority. The amount of the junior scholarship, Which is £10 in Otago, might possibly be
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less —I should prefer to keep it what it is now —and in that case the number of senior scholarships might be increased. I think it would be an excellent thing to increase the number of senior scholarships. As to the proposal to abolish them and increase the number of allowances to country pupils, I think that is very ill advised. As a matter of fact, the holders of the special country scholarships —I mean those coming from the country who do not win one on the general list, but fcak'e a scholarship of very much lower value —are, broadly speaking, not a very satisfactory class of pupil, and I do not think special inducement should be offered to them to continue their education in the towns. It is true that the country boy of high ability should be helped to get an advanced education, but it is mistaken kindness, to my mind, to persuade a boy, so to speak, that he had high ability, and simply disappoint him in the end. Further, I believe the abolition of scholarships in favour of an increased number of country allowances would be an injustice to the townspeople. As to the matter of competition which was alluded to, it seems to me madness in a competitive society to get rid of the element of competition—that is, providing it is kept within due measure. It may be that there is some undue competition, but I cannot speak as to that. I can only say that I think public opinion should be sufficient to repress that. With regard to the senior scholarships, for which we almost exclusively prepare, certainly neither we nor, I suppose, any other reputable secondary school give the boys any additional work to the ordinary school subjects and ordinary school course. It is utterly absurd to say that there is anything like cramming or undue competition for the scholarships; and, as for the few pupils who try for the Junior Scholarships from the high school, they are really at a disadvantage as compared with the primary-school pupils, because they have to follow our ordinary secondary course, and are given no special help whatever. The question of overlapping is a difficult subject to deal with. So far as I can see, there is no overlapping in the strict sense between the high schools and the technical schools. We both offer a course preparatory to commerce, but there are important differences between them, so far as I have knowledge of the facts. 2. What are these differences?— There is only overlapping in the sense that both the secondary and technical schools provide a commercial option. The main point, so far as I can gather, is that those who take the commercial course at the technical school certainly take no foreign language, and they take no mathematics except commercial arithmetic. 3. Is no French taken by the technical school? —Not in the day-classes. In most respects our commercial boys have to follow the ordinary school curriculum. They merely substitute for Latin or French a commercial course, embracing book-keeping and commercial correspondence and commercial geography and shorthand. It is true there are none of the fundamentals in this course, and it might have been desirable, had there been sufficient funds available, and had circumstances otherwise permitted, to provide for the option given at the technical school in connection with the high school; but under present circumstances I believe that the course taken at the technical school is educationally inferior to ours. At the present time a parent choosing for his boy is guided largely by the general efficiency and prestige of the school. When a boy goes to the high school he has the choice between certain options. There options are more or less on an equality; but supposing you had side by side with them one which was distinctly inferior educationally and also offered a bribe, so to speak, in the way of immediate payability, there would have been a serious danger of a large number of pupils being attracted to what I should regard as an inferior course. I do not say that such a course would necessarily be inferior in essence. I do not by any means think that Latin, for instance, is absolutely necessary for a sound education. I believe that an equally good course may be given, ultimately, at any rate, without the inclusion of a foreign language, but at the present time I do not believe it would be so good. I think it is not an exaggeration to say that the teaching of English is more or less in an experimental stage in education generally. No doubt picked teachers are able to teach it with equal benefit to a foreign language, but I do not believe that is true, generally speaking; and if it is not true in England it is certainly less true in New Zealand. What I believe is that Latin or some foreign language is at present a necessity. lam aware that there are educational experts of name who think differently, but I have on my side the opinion of the majority of educational experts, and the authorities in England, Germany, and, I would say, the United States. In England ttw Board of Education requires that special proof must be given that the exclusion of Latin is for the benefit of the school; and Professor Sadler, in a valuable paper based upon the present state of secondary education, seems to hold the same,general position I have indicated. In Germany also by far the larger proportion of the pupils in the secondary schools are still taking a mainly classical course, and a classical course in the sense in which it is not taken in New Zealand at all —namely, Latin and Greek. I think that is sufficient evidence to convince us we should go cautiously in these matters. I believe that experiments should be made along the lines of a non-linguistic education with practical elements included, and had we had the money to do it I should have been prepared to advise my Board to do it; but when my own and I presume other Boards have been lacking funds for the necessities of the present types of education, they would hardly think it wise to launch out in experiments. That brings me to the matter of Boards. lam against the amalgamation of secondary, technical, and primary education under one authority. I will say that I am convinced from personal knowledge that the majority of the secondary teachers are strongly against that, and I would urge that before any such important step is taken the matter should be referred to the Standing Committee of the Secondary Conference for an expression of opinion. The saving as regards money, I believe. is mainly illusory. The expenses of management are, as a rule, low. As regards my own Board, I have reason to think that little or no saving would be effected if it was abolished as a secondary body, and I am confident that it would constitute a danger to secondary education. More especially would that be the case if larger Boards covering larger areas were adopted. In any case, it would certainly mean, in my judgment, that each Board should have a Director of
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Education who should be equally competent to deal with secondary and primary education; and are these Directors of Education to be found? I am confident they are not to be found in this Dominion, because the circumstances do not allow of it. I think that the administration of the High School Boards has been, on the whole, well conducted. Ido not believe that it would be better conducted under Education Boards. It is of decided value that men should be continuously associated with the high school, and feel, as it were, some propriety interest in it. In the Old Country, where secondary schools already have governing bodies, the governing bodies still exist under the present system, even if they do receive grants from the Department, and circumstances in the Old Country are different. The work of education both in counties and boroughs is conducted by strong Committees, on which the larger proportion consists of co-opted experts; and, so far as my own locality in the Old Country is concerned, I say that these co-opted experts in many respects run the Committees. I do not believe that in our circumstances in New Zealand we shall be able to secure such experts. Ido not say that the position of the present High School Boards is perfect—in fact, I think that alterations might be made in some respects. I think that in University towns that University professors should be represented on the High School Board. It would be of advantage, too, where the Mayor is ex officio a governor that the City Council should rather nominate an individual as governor for a term of years. Valuable service has been done within my experience by the Ma} 7 or as an ex-officio member; but still more valuable service would be done, I am certain, if the appointee of the City Council were on the Board for a term like the rest of the Board. With regard to an Educational Council, I am strongly of opinion there should be an Education Council or consultative Committee. I think such a Committee should consist entirely of experts representing the different branches of education. Meantime I think more might be done than has been done. I will take secondary education, for instance. I think that before regulations seriously affecting the work of secondary schools are issued the Standing Committee of the Secondary Conference should be officially consulted. I am not finding fault with what has been done by the Department; I believe its administration ha.s been good. Before the important change of introducing free places on so large a scale was adopted, I believe it would have been to the interests of education to have had some gathering of the headmasters and those concerned in order to discuss and advise upon such points. I am no opponent of the free-place system, but I think it could have been brought about in such a way as would have minimized the split which has to a certain extent taken place amongst certain classes owing to the introduction of that system. Then, I am of the opinion that there is uigent need for expediting the progress of the quicker pupils in the primary schools so that they may reach the final standard a year earlier than they do, and take up secondary work at a somewhat earlier age. I believe that, broadly speaking, the quicker pupils in our schools are at least a year behind the pupils in English secondary schools. I judge not only from the experience I have had of the British system, but also from the programmes of work set forth by the educational authorities at Home; and it seems to me that their pupils are doing at an average age of twelve very much the same work as w 7 e are doing at fourteen. The quicker pupils do not come to us earlier than that. I am glad to say, however, that within the last year or so there has been a decided improvement in that respect, as there was a number of pupils coming to us this year and last 3 7 ear under fourteen years of age. I believe, taking all things into consideration, we are a year behind the English secondary schools. I do not blame the primary teachers for that. I think they do really as much as can be expected under the present circumstances; but I do think a real effort should be made to improve matters, as a year's loss in the school life of a child is very regrettable, and you cannot make up for it. They will leave school at much the same age in any case; and it is highly desirable that you should get them further on. The British secondary regulations mention twelve as a desirable age for the primary pupils to pass into the secondary schools, and I thoroughly concur in that. No doubt that mainly means better staffing in the primary schools. I see some suggestion has been made in the North to gather together the Fifth and Sixth Standards in central schools, but I know there are strong arguments against that, and with better staffing that would probably be unnecessary. There could be (a) and (b) classes established, and lam confident it would be found the (a) class would cover in two years at least as much as can be covered in three years under present conditions, and without overstraining any of the pupils. At present the boys of a class have to be measured largely by the" average, and if you can segregate the better half of the pupils it stands to reason you can do much more with them. The better half of the pupils who come to us seem to have been not at all extended during the last year or so, and I believe the primary teachers are fully conscious of that. The same difficulty has been found in America, and I see that some years ago the English experts on the Moseley Commission, while recommending many things in the American schools, reported that the average Amei'Van secondary pupil was from a year to two years behind the average British secondary pupil, and I have seen even stronger statements made by leading American experts. With regard to training colleges, I should like to express mv own. sense of the importance of steeping the students at the training colleges in the best English literature. I agree with the evidence of Mr. Goyen—that it is of the utmost importance that our teachers should be men and women who themselves have a good knowledge, and real interest aud love for English literature. I should also like to see a stronger effort made to improve the current pronunciation of the schools —a thing which I think could best be done through the training colleges. I do not refer to elocution work, which, of course, is a good thing. I am speaking of pronunciation, which I think could be greatly improved if a move were made to take up phonetics as a necessary part of the curriculum of the training colleges. I believe that has been done in Scotland and in many of the English training colleges, and it is favoured by such authorities as Professor Wvlde. I have seen it stated on good authority that a notable improvement has been made in many of the London schools in this respect.
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The teachers receive a thorough training in phonetics. They develop the habit of attending to.their own pronunciation and of noting how it differs from that of others, and they have some notion of how to remedy the mistakes of the students. I believe good pronunciation is of more importance than would appear at first sight. It is of importance to an appreciation of English literature, particularly poetry. Then, I believe that special lectures in psychology as applied to education should be given in the training colleges. I do not think that is done at the present time. It appears to me that a man who merely takes psychology for the degree does not sufficiently- bring his acquirements in the pure science into relation with education. I should like to see a special course in psychology having special reference to its application in teaching. A further suggestion I would make is that all private schools within the Dominion should be subject to Government inspection to this extent : not that the Inspector should have power to examine, but that no school should be permitted to be conducted without a certificate from an appointed Inspector that it reaches a minimum standard of general efficiency, and that structural arrangements, and so forth, are suitable. 4. That is to say, before a license to teach should issue to those private institutions it should be inspected by an officer from the Central Department, or from such locally constituted body as has charge of educational matters?—T think myself the Inspector should be one from the Central Department unless those in charge of the private schools were willing that their institutions should be inspected by local officers, otherwise it might be said they were being inspected by those who represented their natural rivals. I believe such authorization is required for private schools in German} 7 , and that some steps have been taken in this direction in England also. I think it is as well that the public should have some guarantee in this matter. I myself am strongly opposed to anything like the inclusion of sexual physiology in the curriculum of the schools. T am by no means a believer in what may be called a conspiracy of silence. The position of day schools and boarding-schools in this matter is very different. In a day school I believe the responsibility should rest w 7 ith the parents, together with the minister of religion; and in special or difficult cases the parent, in my opinion, would do well to call in a good doctor, and get him to talk to the boy. Some parents, to mv knowledge, do that. I certainly do not believe in lectures being given to the classes by outside experts. Such experts, like aliens, are liable to take a distinctly morbid view of the subject, and while I do not doubt that to some they do good, I am persuaded that such lectures delivered to numbers in other cases do distinct harm. I know that opinion is supported by others who are entitled to speak with authority. Dr. Clouston, in his "Hygiene of Man," I think, speaks much to the same effect. Personally, I should place more trust in a word in private and in the fostering of healthy interests, athletic and otherwise, at the dangerous age, and in the handing by the parent to his children of suitably chosen literature upon the subject. Any discussion on such matter should, I think, be personal, and not wholesale. I entirely agree with the memorandum on the subject which I believe has been handed in to the Commission by Mr. Tibbs, of Auckland. 5. Mr. Davidson.} In connection with the question of pronunciation, do you think it would be a good plan if exercises in voice-production were given for a few minutes daily in both primary and secondary schools by teachers who had themselves taken lessons in the subject?—l was not speaking of voice-production, but rather of phonetics or pronunciation—a proper discrimination between the different sounds. For instance, when a child says " lidy " instead of "lady," and so on, he should be taught the correct pronunciation. The teacher should know precisely 7 what are the sounds involved and what are the natural tendencies to degradation in order to cope with that trouble properly. 6. Then, you recommend that this subject should be thoroughly taught in connection with the training of teachers ?—Yes, T believe it is a compulsor} 7 subject in Scotland now. 7. You referred to the unnecessary retardation of the cleverest of the pupils in the primary schools : have you such knowledge of the primary schools as a parent as well as a principal of the high school?—I have, but lam not referring to my own children. 8. Do you think the method of promoting from, classes yearly has something to do with the retardation of the cleverest of our pupils?—T think that probably is the cause. 9. If the method of promotion were altered so that the work could be divided into two periods, and the larger classes were divided, as I think y 7 ou suggested, into, say, (a) and (b) or junior and senior, and promotions were made half-yearly, do you think the evil might be eradicated in that way?— Speaking as one from outside, of course, it seems to me that would be a very good plan. 10. Do you know that such a plan is being tried in some of the most progressive States of America?—l was not aware of that, but something of the kind was done here at the time of the change of date of examination. 11. You disapprove of one body having control over primary, seoondar} 7 , and technical education within one district? —Yes. 12. Do you think if such a reform brought about the position of a member of such a body would be of greater importance, and you might get a better class of men or women to seek such positions?—l think you get a fairly satisfactory class at present. It is not for me to judge the personnel of Education Boards. I think you would get much the same class. In England, it appears to me, the best work on Education Committees is done partly by teachers in other grades, partly by retired teachers, but largely also by men and women of independent means who have themselves had a high education, and have devoted themselves to that work in life. That was the case in my own neighbourhood in England. 13. If the method of co-option I have referred to were adopted here, could you not have equally strong Committees controlling the several branches? You have now, and you will in the future to a greater extent have, men and women who have had considerable experience—who have retired at a comparatively early age upon superannuation?—No doubt such people might be
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obtained as co-optative members; at the same time, I think it would be still better if they were on the present governing bodies. 14. On the question of scholarships, would you be in favour of giving a book allowance of, say, a maximum of £5 to scholarship-holders from towns in lieu of the present £10? —I should prefer to keep to the present figure, because I believe the scholarship allowance does exercise weight with a great number of the parents. In any case, if that were abolished, there should certainly be an allowance for books and other incidental expenses connected with secondary schools, such as subscriptions and the like. It is a great pity that boys should be hampered in that way. 15. Do you regard a free place as being practically a scholarship?—No : it is, so to speak, a public service. In my opinion, it is to the advantage of the State to provide free secondary education to all capable of it. I think, however, something is required to counteract the strong inducements that are offered by business men to sharp boys to leave school. I often wonder at the way in which the poorer parents now keep their boys at school in spite of the constant demand for boys by business men. 16. Speaking of the training of teachers, I think you said you would prefer to have an able man straight from the University than one who had had training at the training college? —I say that in a secondary-school teacher I should attach more importance to knowledge as such than to previous training in teaching. The possession of a degree, although not an absolute requisite, is certainly a very desirable thing as a proof of tested attainments. 17. Given equal attainments, you would prefer the trained man yourself? —Certainly. If 1 had to discriminate I should, of course, also be guided to a great extent by personality. 18. Mr. Thomson.] It is not a fact that some persons may hold high academic qualifications and yet be poor teachers? —Yes; I have repeatedly passed over men with high degrees. 19. You said you would attach more weight to knowledge when employing a secondary-school teacher : would you not attach more weight to personality ?—I must have expressed myself badly 7 . 20. Do you not think our systems should be so co-ordinated as to permit of primary-school teachers, if they take their university degrees, passing from the primary to the secondary schools 1 Do you not think we ought to encourage that, and that it would be advantageous to the whole of our education system? —I do not think it would be a bit more advantageous than getting a good man without previous training for secondary work. 21. You seem to deprecate the fact that teachers should be trained in any primary work for secondary schools ? —I do not say that. 22. Can you show any points of differentiation between the methods employed in the primaryand in the secondary schools? —For one thing, dealing with subjects in the secondary stage requires greater knowledge. For another thing, there must be less spoon-feeding, so to speak. The boys are expected to take a greater part in the lessons themselves. They prepare the work in such ways that the teacher can go over it —work out the main lines —the relations of cause and effect, and the like. 23. Does the fact of a man being a primary-school teacher handicap him for undertaking secondary-school work?— Certainly not; but experience in primary teaching for a master going to a secondary school is only of subsidiary value. 24. Is there a scarcity- of secondary-school teachers, do you know ?-—I would not say that. 25. Is it not a fact that in the secondary schools the dull boys are neglected, whilst all the efforts are concentrated to the bright boys?—l do not think any one would say that about my school. I personally, and I believe my teachers as well, pay as much attention to the dullest boy in the school as to the cleverest. That is a principle I have always adopted, and one I hope to keep up. 26. Have you any system of classification of the boys? —A very careful system. 27. With regard to sexual physiology, have you had lecturers from the White Cross League lecturing at your school? —No. I found myself unable to give facilities for the purpose at the high school. I am confirmed in my attitude by the independent judgment of other experienced headmasters, including one who had had such a lecture in his school. He said he would never have such a lecture given again. 28. Mr. Kirk.} Do you teach typewriting in your school? —No; we teach shorthand as one of the ingredients of the non-Latin course. Typewriting is more a matter of manual dexterity, and should not, I think, form a part of any course professing to give general education. 29. Is not shorthand very much the same? —No; I think shorthand has some opening effect upon the mind. It gives some grasp of phonetics, and so on. It gives the boys who take it some independent point of view. I believe it is in some degree educative, and stimulating to manyboys. It is inferior in educative value, of course, to many other subjects. 30. Do you think the teaching of shorthand has any effect upon the spelling of the pupils, either for good or evil?—l do not think it has, but I believe myself we ought to take some steps towards the improvement of our spelling. 31. Do you think it is advisable to spend the time of the school in teaching- it?—l think for boys to wish to take a commercial course it is quite a defensible ingredient of the school course. 32. Have you any means of judging how many of those boys who take a commercial course actually go in for commerce? —Many of them do. 33. Do you think boys at that age are capable of choosing their vocation in life? —Perhaps not; but when boys enter my school I do my best to set before tire parents clearly the various options, and explain the effect of them, and they, speaking generally, go carefully into the matter, and decide to the best of their ability- according to what is likely to be the vocation of the boy. Most parents appear to welcome it, but I have heard some men say they would prefer their boys not to learn it, because they would always be kept at it. 34. Do } 7 ou know how many boys after they leave school stick to their shorthand?—l should think a considerable number do so. I think it is a valuable thing for any one to have. I should like to have it myself.
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35. Is shorthand a subject which if neglected for six months after school life is left can be at once taken up again?—l suppose further practice would be required. 36. Do you think there is sufficient time to spare in school hours to devote to that subject? —Yes, I think we can spare the time. 37. Have you any recommendations to make as to the teaching of arithmetic? For instance, do-you know the system that is taught in the Horace Mann Secondary School in New York, in connection with which there is the reproduction of actual business operations?—l have read accounts of that school with interest, but I am not able to speak about it. 38. From your own personal observation, have you any recommendations to make as to the manner in which improvement can be effected in the teaching of arithmetic? —I believe, generallyspeaking, arithmetic is well taught in the schools. 39. Do you think it is sufficiently satisfactory for the commercial course at the present time? — Well, you do not expect a boy after two years at school to leave initiated into all the specialist work of business offices. 40. In your opinion, should a boy be able to add accurately?— Certainly. 41. Is he doing that at the present time? —I should say, speaking generally, he ought to be able to do so. 42. Have you had any outside opinions upon the subject?—l have seen expressions of opinion by business men to the effect that the arithmetic was not generally as good as it was some time ago. Probably in the old da} 7 s more attention was given to arithmetic; but you would expect if more attention were given to arithmetic for business purposes the boys would be more proficient in mercantile operations. 43. Are not mercantile operations in connection with arithmetic very essential? —Certainly. 44. Ought they not to be more systematically developed than the3 7 are?—l should say, generally speaking, the pupils are sufficiently advanced in simple mercantile operations, to which I think you allude. 45. You spoke of the children of our schools being in your opinion a 3 7 ear or two behind those of the British schools : do you know at what age children enter the primary school, generally speaking, in that country?—l should say, at the age of about five or so. 46. At what age do they generally enter school here? —Much about the same age, I think, though I cannot say I have any direct knowledge. 47. At vhat age, in your opinion, should children commence their primary education? —1 should say, six ought to be early enough. 48. What physical training do the boys at your school have?—ln addition to the military training and the ordinary school games they have an hour's gymnastics per week, as an ingredient of the regular school course; and, apart from that, I have recently instituted the practice of giving the boys a quarter of an hour's physical drill every morning before school. 49. Do you differentiate between the strong and the weakly pupils?— Yes; the instructor makes careful provision for those boys in any respect weakly, and gives only such exercises as are adapted to them. Parents have spoken in appreciation of that. 50. Are any records kept of the boys and their development? —No; I should like to keep them, but there are many things I should like to do if time and considerations of expense permitted. 51. You agree that it would be a wise thing to have it done? —Certainly; and in the absence of such lectures as were mentioned a short time ago, it might do a lot towards the desired end. 52. Do you also take swimming? —Yes, I forgot to mention that. Every boy who comes to the school is expected to learn swimming, unless he is specially exempted on medical grounds. According to a calculation I made a short time ago 90 per cent, of the boys who had been with us for a year had made at any rate some progress in swimming. 53. Mr. Milner emphasized very much the teaching of history and civics in the schools, and regretted the fact that the teaching, in his opinion, was not satisfactory at the present time?— Yes, I agree with him. I myself see that every boy in the school learns something of the history of the Empire, at any rate. He goes through it in outline, and if he remains long enough he goes through a portion of it in detail. I brought this matter up before the Secondary School Conference —that the teaching of history should be encouraged in the Diminion; and it was on that recommendation that it was brought before the University Senate, I think. 54. Mr. Wells.} Do you get many_,of the free-place pupils who in your opinion would have done better work at the technical school? —Not any- large proportion. Until the present year I have divided my new entrants every year into three classes, (a), (b), and (c). After careful examination in English and arithmetic, my own opinion—and it is confirmed by conversation with those assistants who come most closely in touch with the boys—is that the (a) boys particularly have been most satisfactory, (b) quite satisfactory, and a fair proportion of the (c) boys have also been satisfactory, the (c) class including many of those who come within the proficiency certificates. I believe the wastage, so to speak, is very small, and not larger than it would be and must be under any system. 55. Do you think there would be any improvement if there were consultation between the parents and the teachers of the primary school before the boy decided where he would go for his free place?—l should say in the majority of cases that did occur. Our local parents seem to take a very real interest in the education of their children. They come and see me about it, and talk the matter over. 56. Would you advocate the establishment of a training college for secondary-school teachers? —Ideally that would be the best course. The best work done in connection with secondary training that I know of is the Oxford University course in education, which has been already mentioned. 57. One such institution should be ample for the Dominion? —I should think so. 58. Would you approve of a Dominion scale of salaries for high schools? —I see no reason to disapprove of it; but you would have some difficulty in regard to boarding-schools. I think
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boarding arrangements should be in the nature of hostels. The Boards should make such payment as was thought fit to the headmaster, or whoever was in charge, and the other profits should go to the general funds of the school. The system which prevails in many- of the older schools in England is considered undesirable by leaders of educational opinion there. By far the most profitable thing in connection with education is the holding of boardinghouses, which has nothing really to do with education. 59. Is there any- boarding establishment in connection with the school here?—We have a boardinghouse. 60. Does it take all the children who come from the country ? —We have not a very large number of country children in the school. Some time ago when I looked into it the total number of boys from the country, including railway boys, was about thirty-eight. About twenty-three of those were resident at the boardinghouse, and the remainder resided with relatives. 61. Is the boardinghouse under the supervision of a teacher? —It is under the supervision of a senior master. 62. Speaking of sexual physiology, you were of the opinion that the instruction should be given either by the parents or by a minister of religion. You realize, I suppose, there is an innate diffidence on the part of the majority of parents to mention that subject to their children? —That is so. The same diffidence would exist with the teacher. It should not be done by any one who does not stand in loco parentis to the boy. 63. You think there should be individual instruction?— What I recommend is that a parent should get some judicious medical man to speak to his boy, or more generally perhaps that he should choose some literature on the subject, and hand that to the boy, expressing his willingness to talk over any matter that the boy may feel a difficulty about. I am convinced that that is the best method of dealing with the matter. This bringing in of experts from outside should be deprecated. 64. Recognizing that the majority of parents will not do this, would you let it go?—lt is a difficult question. I would let it go sooner than adopt the alternative which has been suggested. As a matter of fact, I do not think boy 7 s are altogether neglected in the matter. Sunday-school teachers and others exercise a good deal of influence in that direction. In the Church of England the ministers exercise an influence in the preparation for confirmation, and no doubt similar methods are adopted in other denominations. I think there is great danger in dealing with the matter by public or semi-public lectures, and my opinion is confirmed by the opinion of others. 65. You mention the inspection of private schools : you think it is right that all schools should be subject to examination: do you think that mere inspection is sufficient? Should not the Inspector have power to test if he thinks it is necessary?— That could wait until public opinion was prepared for it. My opinion is that a competent Inspector—and, no doubt, they are competent —could go into a class, and after quarter of an hour, have a good notion in outline of the educational efficiency of that class. In practice that is what the headmaster has to do. 66. That is quite sufficient at the present time? —Yes, and all that the present state of public opinion would allow. 67. Mr. Hogben.] Did I understand you to recommend that there should be one separate training school for New Zealand for the preparation of secondary-school teachers? —I think it would be a good thing, and we could bring in where necessary experts from outside to begin with. There has been a considerable movement of recent years in secondary education. We are largelycut off from the influence of that, owing to the lack of such specialist associations as the English Association, and the Classical Association, Geographical Associations, and so on, and I think it would be necessary in starting it that we should in some subjects, at any rate, bring in trained teachers. 68. Do you think it is necessary that it should be separate from one of the present training colleges? —I should be inclined myself to think it would be best to have a secondary training college. If considerations of expense forbade that, it might be possible to attach it to one of the present colleges, but I do not see how it would be practicable to attach it to one in each centre without involving greater expense. 69. Do you know that in New York they have the same teachers in the colleges for secondary and primary training colleges?— That is quite possible. I am merely speaking with regard to our present set of circumstances. 70. Do you not think that the Course of psychology and applied education should include the study of the nature of a child from a very early age?— Yes. 71. Do you not think they could get that by observing the classes in the primary schools attached to the normal school of the training college? —That is rather an indirect way of getting it. 72. Is it not direct knowledge of the child? —It is in one sense; but the average student, I take it, would derive considerable benefit from special lectures on the subject. 73. But do you not think that really first-hand observation is very desirable in connection with psychology ?—Yes, but at the same time I should not think it is necessary to give them a lot of practice at an early age. That appears not to be done in Germany. 74. I am speaking of observation. Whatever observation is necessary, if that is provided already, is it necessary to make a special institution for training secondary-school teachers?— I should think so. It would be highly desirable, because if only 7 one you would have a large number of teachers. You would have all the main secondary subjects dealt with by a set of trained and qualified teachers. 75. Do you think if, in our present circumstances, we could not afford what you want, we could select good teachers in the neighbouring secondary schools for observation?—l think something might be done in that way with senior students. T should say that after the degree is taken the student should take a special course for a certain time.
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76. You are aware that one who has'taken his degree can go to a training college for a year? —-I did hear something to that effect, but do they do it? * 77. Mr. Thomson.} Have you an agricultural course in your school? —No. 78. Do you not think it wise, seeing that the trend of population is from the country- to the town, that "there should be an agricultural course?—l would like a lot of things if I had the money. Some of them I want before an agricultural course. 79. You are aware of the high position which the Waitaki Boys' High School holds? —I do not know that our own school bears an inferior reputation to Waitaki. 80. You are aware that Waitaki High School has that reputation, and that children come to it from all parts of New Zealand, and even from Australia? —Yes, as a select boardinghouse. 81. How many matriculated from your school last year? —The year before, twenty-eight, 1 think. Last year there were considerably more. 82. Seeing that we are an agricultural country, would it not be wise to introduce an agricultural course? —If we had all the other courses which I regard as pre-requisites, sufficiently equipped and developed, I would be ready to consider it. I should, however, think there would be small demand for it in the towns. 83. If there was a strong bias created for agricultural training in the primary schools in the country, it would create a demand for it in the. towns? —I do not think so. Our pupils are mainly from the towns. 84. The Gfiairman.] Assuming that the rural course in the country leads to a higher-graded school or secondary school for agricultural teaching, is there not a trend from the primary school to that school? —Yes. 85. And therefore Waitaki serves in the particular direction as meeting the requirements of Otago as a whole? —Yes. 86. Your school devotes itself to the preparation of students for professional and commercial courses? —Yes. 87. And the results of the Matriculation and Scholarship Examinations in the past have proved that your school is fulfilling its proper function in those directions? —I believe so. 88. Do you not think it is only right and fair that the parents of the children attending the high schools should have a voice in the election of the Boards of Governors? —They might possibly have a voice in it, but I do not take it that that necessarily implies an amalgamation of all the schools under a single Board. 89. Is it a fact that the parents have no voice at all under existing conditions? —Not that I know of, except in an indirect method. The Education Board is represented, and the CityCouncil is represented on the Board, and those bodies are elected by the people. 90. You do not think it is desirable that the parents should have direct representation on the governing body of the school? —I do not object to it. I do not think there would be much feeling on the part of parents. I think that parents are, broadly speaking, very well satisfied. 91. That is a matter of opinion?—l have never heard a word of discontent since I have been in the school except from one man, and he afterwards apologized to me unasked. 92. You said you thought the parent and the master of the primary school should consult as to what career a boy should take up on leaving school. Do you not think it would be better that the matter should be deferred until the child is leaving your school, and that you, in conjunction with the parent, would be better qualified to determine the child's future career in life? —Yes, I should think so. 93. If a child only takes a two-year course at your school, is that child properly equipped to fight the battle of life ? —I think, he is not badly equipped, but at the same time he might be better equipped. At the end of two years a boy should be able to pass the Junior Civil Service Examination or Free-place Examination, as the case may be. I do not regard the passing of examinations as in itself an. end, but at present it really represents a fairly well-balanced education. 94. Having regard to what the State expects, is it not a fact that too many boys who go to the secondary school actually mark time? —I do not think so. 95. Would you be surprised to learn that is generally the opinion of parents?—l can only speak for my own school. 96. You say it is not the case so far as your school is concerned. You are satisfied that with the course of instruction two years is stifficient to fit a boy for his struggle in after years?—l am fully conscious of deficiencies, but at the same time I do not think they are badly equipped, although, as I say, \ think no boy should leave school before he is sixteen at the very earliest, and I always strong!} recommend parents to keep their boys at school somewhat longer. 97. Is not the trend of educational thought in the direction of keeping boys at school until they are seventeen or eighteen ?—Certainly. 98. Should not New Zealand, if it wants to be in the van of progressive countries, take steps in that direction ? —Certainly. Samuel Morgan Park examined on oath. (No. 43.) 1. The Chairman.} You are Secretary of the Otago Education Board?— Yes. I have occupied that position for a year and a half, and have been in the service of the Board for thirty-five years. I should first of all like to say a few words regarding the returns which the Department requires from the Board's officers and teachers. The number of returns required from, teachers and Boards is, I think, excessive, and the nature of many is more complex than is necessary either for statistical purposes or as ameans of checking accuracy. I quite recognize that for the carryingout of its work a Department so highly organized and comprehensive as is the Education Department requires a considerable number of returns, many- of them necessarily of an intricate character. I think, however, that the policy of trusting Education Boards and teachers, which
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now. exists in connection with some very important sections of the Department's administration, might be extended without any loss in efficiency, thus freeing the Board's officials and teachers from what are at present felt to be very burdensome requirements, and which in the case of the teachers mean the diversion of a large portion of their time from their proper function of teaching. I offer the following suggestions to indicate some of the reforms which might with advantage be introduced : the quarterly return of attendance, two copies of which have to be prepared by the head teacher or sole teacher of every school in the Dominion at the end of each quarter —(1.) That in the first part of the return (lines 1-1.3) only lines 3, 4, 7, 8, 11, 12, 13 be retained —that is, seven out of the thirteen lines now used. (2.) That the second and third parts of the return (comprising classification of the scholars according to standards, ages, and subjects of instruction) be required for the December quarter only. These two parts of the return are forwarded to the Department for the December quarter only 7. For the other three quarters they are not used in this office. For these three quarters, therefore, they are quite useless. A moderate estimate of the time necessary for the compilation of the figures in them and the writing out of two fair copies would be an hour. There are about 2,150 schools in the Dominion, so that 6,450 hours of teachers' time are occupied w 7 ith this absolutely useless work. Reckoning a teacher's whole school time for a year at 1,200 hours, the waste effort represented in this return alone is equal to the whole school time of five and one-third head or sole teachers. The money value of this wasted time is at least ,£826 (average salary of adult teacher is £155 xSJ = £826). I do not lay stress on the money value of the time of the five and one-third teachers, as, of course, they would have been employed even though the useless part of the re-turn had not been required; but I do emphasize the undesirability of diverting the teacher's time from his proper work of teaching as exemplified by this return. Scholarships. —At present Boards have to furnish at the end of each quarter a return showing for each scholarship-holder (there are eighty-five in this district) the-name of the holder, the month and the year in which the scholarship commenced, the term of tenure, the amount of each, and how many quarterly payments have already been made. The foregoing information therefore must be supplied four times each year in respect of eighty-five pupils. I suggest that the existing quarterly claim form be abolished, and that in lieu thereof the following be required : (1.) At the beginning of each year a return as follows : —
That is for this district only three lines of figures. (2.) At the beginning of each quarter a return for the preceding quarter in the following form : —
i.e., one line of figures instead of, say, four pages foolscap as at present. Conveyance of Children. —I take the present method of furnishing claims under this heading to illustrate the reasonableness of extending the policy of trusting the Boards and teachers, to which I have already referred. At present, for the conveyance of every child for whom a capitation grant is asked, the Board has to furnish the Department with a return showing the pupil's name, age, place of residence, names of the three nearest schools, and the distance of each from his home, the name of the school to which he is to be conveyed, a statement of the general necessity for the conveyance, what communication there is by rail or other public conveyance, wdiether he is to be conveyed by trap, sledge, or boat, what other children there are of school age in the locality, and their number, and what arrangements are made for their education; and, finally, any general remarks. If the Department decides from the information supplied on this form that the pupil is eligible for capitation under the regulations, the application is approved, but in order to obtain payment there must at the end of each quarter be submitted a further return showing the pupil's name, age in years and months, distance of his home from the school by the-nearest road (in miles and chains), the method of his conveyance, the number of return trips he has made, the number of half-day attendances he has registered, the date of his admission to the school, or of his leaving the school, and any further information which the teacher may desire to afford the Department. Somewhat similar procedure is necessary, but using different forms, in order to obtain the boarding allowance of 2s.' 6d. per week-allowed to children who have to live away from home to attend school. The forms containing the detailed information I have specified must be accompanied by a summary of the claims for the whole district, and a certificate from the Board's Secretary that to the best of his knowledge and belief the claim is correct, and that the conditions of the regulations have
Number of Scholarships at each Rate of Payment. Rate per Annum. Amount per Annum. Amount per Quarter. 48 37 £ 10 40 £ 480 1,480 £ 120 370 89 £1,960 £490 •\_
Amount provided by Department.. Amount paid by Board. Adjustment necessary. Due to Department. Due to Board. £490 £475 ' £15
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been complied with. I submit that all this is futile. The elaborate return sent by the teacher, supported by the Board's summary and certificate, affords no greater guarantee of the correctness of* the claim than would an unsupported statement of the Board. For all the Department knows, both statements may be false, and the teacher's signature a bogus one. The Department has simply to rely upon the integrity, alertness, and accuracy of the local authority and its officials and teachers. "For all practical purposes, therefore, the returns I have mentioned might be abolished, and the Department might pay the capitation on receipt of a statement by the Board in the following form : —
with the Board's certificate indorsed thereon that the claim is correct according to the regulations. Manual and Technical. —Of the sixty-eight return forms which Boards and teachers have to use, thirty-two belong to this section. The continuance of special grants for school hand-work classes is, of course, necessary, but I should like to see these made to each district in one sum. Instruction in hand-work has been in operation now for eight or nine years, and, from the information as to present cost readily accessible to the Department, it should not be difficult to estimate what would be a fair grant to make to each district. Hand-work is now one of the subjects of instruction in all schools : Inspectors are quite familiar with it, and teachers are trained in it. There does not, therefore, seem much necessity for forwarding to the Department at the beginning of each year the programme in hand-work to be followed by each school in the Dominion for the year any more than there is to submit to the Department the school programme in English and arithmetic. The remarks I have already made regarding the trusting of the local authorities have special application to this subject. The object of the Department is, of course, to ensure that a sufficient amount of time shall be devoted to the subject, and that the subject shall be efficiently taught; but the forwarding of the school programme in hand-work to the Department gives no guarantee that the work as specified therein will be carried out. For that guarantee reliance must be placed entirely on the Board's Inspectors. I suggest (1) That the forms of application for recognition of school hand-work classes as now required be abolished; (2) that all special registers for hand-work classes in public schools (with the exception of secondary classes in district high schools) be abolished (the saving in stationery- alone would be considerable); (3) that annual grants of fixed sums, calculated on a proportional basis, be made to Boards in respect of hand-work instruction up to and including Standard IV (agriculture to be excepted); (4) that for school classes above Standard IV the capitation grant now paid be calculated on the average per standard class, and that the Boards' simple certificate as to the average attendance be accepted. In support of my plea for this extension of the principle of reliance upon Boards to furnish honest and correct returns, I would point out that at the present time the Board's simple certificate per the quarterly attendance returns as to the average attendance for the district is accepted as the basis for payment of sums aggregating £90,000 (for Otago). There should, therefore, be no objection to applying the same principle to payments for scholarships, conveyance of children, manual and technical instruction, &c, aggregating under £5,000. To oppose the reform I suggest would appear to me to be like straining at the gnat and swallowing the camel. Free School-books. —I am strongly of opinion that the grant for free school-books should be discontinued. That there was no necessity for this concession is, I think, clearly proved by the fact that at least 75 per cent, of the children still provide their own books, and the Board is appealed to by teachers and Committees to provide additional cupboard-accommodation for the free books. The grant should be withdrawn before the people become habituated to it, otherwise they will soon come to accept it as one of their rights, and be inclined to resent its discontinuance. The annual grant at rates for renewal will amount to, say, £7,200, and this sum might well be spent to better advantage. Election of School Committees. —There is no express provision in the Act for holding an election of less than the whole number required for the Committee except where the number holding office is reduced to less than the number required for a quorum, or where a majority resign (section 123). A case occurred recently in this district where eight members of the School Committee had been properly elected and the ninth member had been illegally declared elected. The Board's solicitors who have advised on this point recommend that subsection (2) of section 118 should be struck out, as it might be held to limit the powers in subsection (1), and express provision should be made for ordering an election of one or more members of a Committee when an election is declared invalid in part, or when a meeting fails to elect a full Committee, and giving power to the Board to make appointments to the vacant positions when they are not filled on the second election. 2. Mr. Wells.] What grant do you make to Committees in this district for incidental expenditure? —We have a graduated scale, which at present is under revision. We hope to have a newscale out within a month. 3. Do the Committees supply all stationery free? —No. 4. How is the stationery supplied to the pupils?—By the Committee, or the pupils find their own. In Standards V and VI we have taken advantage of the recent regulation by which we supply a certain portion to the schools. 5. Are any children required to pay for the stationery?— They are not required to pay. 6. Do they pay? —Yes, I understand so. But that is left entirely to the Committees. '
School. Number,oyupils_conveyed. j | Number of Return Trips.^ Rate. Amount claimed.
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7. There is no lump amount given?— No. I have heard no dissatisfaction expressed on the point you mention. 8. With regard to the control of education generally- in this district, do you think the Education Board might take over the control of the primary, secondary, and technical schools, giving a fair measure of local control in ever} 7 case ?—I am not prepared to express an opinion on that point. 9. Have you given any thought to a grading scheme for teachers in this district? —No. 10. You have no opinion to offer on the point? —No. My own opinion is that the dual control of School Committees and Board, as we have it at present, is as satisfactory as could be devised. I do not hear much dissatisfaction expressed. 11. Do you disapprove of the issue of free supplementary readers? —No. 12. You spoke of free books generally : do I understand you to mean the books at present issued, or only those books which the pupil may reasonably be allowed to take home or use at home?—l believe the additional reading matter which has been supplied to the lower standards is a very good feature. 13. Do you not think those reading-books have very largely increased the facility in reading? —That is a matter for the Inspectors. 14. Your objection applies mainly to the books the pupils are required to use at home? —That is so. 15. Do you think there is at present much leakage going on in regard to the pupils who leave school after passing the Fifth or Sixth Standard, and do not make any attempt to continue their education? —There is, I think, a great leakage. I think 2 per cent, pass out after passing the Fifth Standard. 16. Would you approve of continuation schools for those? —The objection I have to compelling children to go to continuation schools is that, though you can compel them to go to the school, you cannot make them learn. You have not the same control over a pupil of that age as you have over one who is under fourteen years. 17. Has the Education Board experienced any difficulty in securing the supply of teachers? — Yes, a great difficulty, especially within the last two or three years. 18. That applies more particularly, I suppose, to the small backblock schools? —Yes. 19. You have no difficulty in filling places in the town? —No. 20. Have any steps been taken down this way to grapple with that difficulty?—By the institution of teachers' training classes on Saturdays, and also for special classes in. the centres in the country, and also by correspondence classes. Advantage has been taken of the Department's grant in this respect. 21. Do you think that help is given quickly enough in rapidly growing districts?—l think so. The only complaint we have here is in regard to schools of 451 to 500; they think that a teacher should be given earlier than it is. 22. Mr. Kirk.] Are your relations with the Central Department at Wellington satisfactory? —Yes. 23. Do you find that the Department administers its affairs, as far as you are concerned, sympathetically ?—Yes. 24. You receive a ready response to your appeals ?—With due respect to the difficulties under which they themselves must labour. I appreciate the difficulties under which they labour. 25. You are satisfied with the administration so far as it comes under your notice? —Yes, as an Education Board official. 26. Mr. Poland.] Do you consider your district too large for proper administration?—l think it is quite large enough. 27. On the other hand, do you recognize that a very small district is not in the best interests of primary education? —I recognize that too. 28. You think there should be a maximum as well as a minimum? —Yes. 29. How do you suggest that the money now spent on free school-books should be spent"?—l think the crying need just now is for trained teachers. 30. You would expend this £7,000 a year in that direction?—l merely make that suggestion as a more profitable way of expending it. 31. Do you think that free school-books were never asked for? —There was no general request emphasized in Otago for it. 32. Has there been any friction between School Committees and the Board over the appointment of teachers under the present system I —No, not for years. 33. The Board send forward four names, do they?— Generally. If there are four applicants eligible for the appointment those four names are sent to the Committee, and they have a choice. But in any case where the merits of any one teacher considerably outweigh the merits of the other applicants the Board sends on one name only. 34. Is that system not liable to abuse? —The success of any system depends on the honesty of its administration. So long as this system is administered honestly I consider it a very good system indeed. 35. How do you arrive at the decision that one teacher is pre-eminent over three others?— Almost solely by the advice of the Inspectors. 36. You, of course, are almost entirely guided by the Inspectors in regard to the qualification of teachers? —That is so. 37. Do you not think the Inspectors would be able to say which of the four teachers was actually the most suitable for -any position which was vacant ?—Generally, yes. 38. Would they not always be able to say so?—No, I think Inspectors, like others, are fallible. 39. You think it is preferable to send on four names, except in exceptional cases?—l believe in maintaining the hearty sympathy and co-operation of Committees,
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40. You think it is necessary to send on the four names in order to retain that hearty co-operation and sympathy?—l think so. 41. What about the Committee to whom only one name is sent?— The Board asks that Committee to coincide with its view. 42. 'Mr.-Davidson.] Do you think the largely increased cost of administration by Boards is. due in a very great measure to the very largely increased amount of work placed upon the Boards ? —Undoubtedly. 43. Do you think the numerous complicated returns required has much to do with the increased cost of administration?—lt is a very great factor. I know that Education Board officials have to work very much harder now 7 than in former years. 44. The Chairman.] At present the Boards have to supply full details regarding the staffs of each school, names of the teachers, classification, rate of salary, &c. : would it not be sufficient if the total amount required to pay salaries in each grade were given to afford a basis on which the Department should pay? —That is a change more radical in its nature than I had in my mind. I do not see any insuperable objection to it. 45. Similarly, in respect to the scholarship returns, would it not be sufficient to give the number of scholarships, the amount paid per quarter, the return to be restricted to three columns? —That is practically what I have suggested. 46. Mr. Davidson.] In connection with that return, do you think, if it was bulked together in that way, the Auditor-General would pass the accounts? —That is a question for the Department. So far as the auditing of our accounts here are concerned, it would make no difference at all. Charles Reynolds Dalton Richardson examined on oath. (No. 44. ) 1. The Chairman.} You are the Chief Inspector of Schools under the Otago Education Board? —Yes. I have occupied that position for eighteen months. Prior to that I was an Inspector in the Board's service for fifteen years, and have held positions as a teacher in every branch of the service. lam a B.A. of the University of New Zealand. 2. Will you make a statement to the Commission?—An examination of the statistics showing the expenditure on the various branches of education in New Zealand during the last twelve years shows the following rates of increase in the cost of fhe several branches : Cost of primary education has increased 751 per cent.; secondary education, 2385 per cent.; University "and higher technical, 1583 per cent.; industrial schools, 180 per cent.; special deaf, blind, defectives, 3666 per cent.; technical education, tenfold. If the increases are viewed from the cost per head of population we find the rates of increase in each division to be: Primary education cost has increased 305 per cent.; secondary education cost has increased 1857 per cent.; University education cost has increased 75 per cent.; industrial schools cost has increased 100 per cent.'; special schools for defectives, &c, 200 per cent. : technical education has been practically wholly developed. Primary Education. —ln the primary department for this increased cost we have among other things: (1.) The average attendance at primary schools has increased 21 per cent,, the number of schools by 27 per cent,, and the number of adult teachers by 424 per cent. (2.) Uniform staffing and salary throughout the Dominion. (3.) Increased staffing and salaries. During the last four years the average salary for adults has been increased by £6 ss. 6d. a head. (4.) A gradual replacing of the pupil-teachers by competent assistants. '(5.) Provision for the supply of teachers by means of the probationers. (6.) An increased supply of reading in the additional books obtained under the free-book grant and by means of the School Journal. (7.) The machinery for the training of teachers has been doubled by the establishment of training colleges at Wellington and Auckland, and by the better equipment of the Training Colleges at Dunedin and Christchurch, and by the close relation of all these institutions to the University colleges in the four centres. During the past three years the expenditure under this heading has increased 376 per cent. (8.) Reasonable grants have been made for the post-collegiate training of teachers in several subjects in which it has been found that further training was necessary. (9.) Provision for the tuition of uncertificated teachers. (10.) Establishment and subsidizing of the Teachers' Superannuation Fund by which aged and less efficient teachers are gradually being replaced by younger and more active ones, and openings for promotion provided. (11.) The finances of the School Committees have been placech-on a secure basis and the finances of the Boards are assured. (12.) Greater facilities for conveyance of pupils. (13.) Manual instruction now forming an integral part of the curriculum. From the foregoing it will be seen that the policy of the Department, so far as primary education is concerned, has been a progressive one, and an analysis of these items will show that in the'main the administration has been in the 'direction of increased efficiency in primary work. Secondary Education.— -With regard to secondary education, those more closely in touch with that branch will no doubt supply information as to the departmental policy, but two outstanding features deserve special note. By the introduction of the free-place system and the grants in connection therewith, the finances of the secondary schools have been rendered more stable, while the avenue to a secondary course has been opened to a large number of primary-school children who otherwise could not have availed themselves of the facilities in operation prior to its introduction. This has been a great boon to a large section of the community. Technical Education,—The increase in the expenditure in technical education has been considerable, but it must be remembered that this branch of education has practically been developed in New Zealand only during the period to which the figures relate, and the 'inception of any branch must necessarily involve a very heavy initial expense. In this connection a heavy responsibility rests upon the managers and heads of the secondary schools. During recent years ideas of culture and education have undergone considerable change, and the resulting ideals
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have revolutionized school methods and subjects. In the past the secondary schools have been concerned with the preparation of pupils for the various learned professions. But other walks of life have assumed proportions of equal importance with these, and society has demanded that courses be provided for giving a basic training for the numerous vocations to which youth aspires. The age-is scientific and industrial; and the secondary schools, hedged round with the traditions "of the past, have failed to recognize it, or, having recognized it, have declined to modify their curricula so as to meet the demands of the industrial community. Side by side with this change in educational ideas has gone on the gradual decadence of the apprenticeship system; and, in order to provide for the educational needs of the industrial section of the community, the establishment of day technical and continuation schools became a necessity. Much of the expense and overlapping could have been avoided had the secondary-school folks shown adequate foresight and initiative. Powers of Boards. —So far as the powers of Boards are concerned, there are some directions in which their powers should be increased : They should be given the power to act immediately in cases where, through exceptional circumstances, the working-conditions of a school demand increased teaching-power; their recommendations for new schools should not be traversed by officers not connected with the education service of the Dominion; and they should be given power to arrange for the conveyance of children on the best terms available. The question of securing school-sites is one in which their powers should be materially increased. The placing of probationers might well be left to the discretion of the Boards, who are better acquainted with local requirements than the Department can be. Rural Courses. —Our experience of the agricultural and rural course is not yet sufficient to enable one to speak authoritatively as to its efficiency; but one point has been forcibly thrust upon me in connection with the scheme. If the scheme is to produce its full effect, the basis of payment will have to be altered, and provision made for the appointment on the staff of each school of a thoroughly qualified teacher in the sciences bearing on agriculture. The work on the science side is too extensive for an itinerant teacher to cope with successfully. The full salary of the science teacher should be paid by the Department, and not as at present, out of capitation. That the course is a good one I am fully convinced, and that the farming community will benefit greatly by it is beyond all doubt. As times goes on it may be found necessary to modify the present syllabus. In all district high schools where this course is taken up an additional assistant should be provided, so that the headmaster might be fieed from class teaching, and be able to devote his whole time to direction and supervision of both departments of the school. The salaries of the first secondary assistants should be materially increased, so as to attract to these positions the very best talent obtainable. They should certainly not be less than that of a first assistant in the largest schools. The work of these men is the most arduous in the teaching profession, and calls for a better all-round equipment than any other position except their headmaster's. Adaption of Syllabus to After Life of Pupils. —In the primary schools we are dealing with children between the ages of five and fourteen, and, if we are to make their school training have a direct bearing on their future careers, we should during these years be able to indicate definitely what their post-school pursuits are to be; but in how few cases can this be done; and if they could be definitely ascertained, what a medley the school currciulum that catered for them would present. The utmost that can be done is to hold the balance evenly between the claims of the cultural, the industrial, and the formal subjects of the curriculum in such a way as to co-ordinate the work of the schools with the social, industrial, and domestic environment in which the child finds or may find himself, and to instil into him the idea that every branch of school-work has some definite relation to himself, his home, or his future —the idea that he is to become one of the world's workers. We should fit him to adapt himself readily to his circumstances by inculcating good working habits, persistent application, and ready initiative, and, provided the subjects are within a child's comprehension, it does not matter much what they are so long as they are presented in an educative way. As two-thirds of the pupils who pass through our primary schools do not proceed to the secondary schools or technical schools, but proceed direct to the industrial ranks, adequate provision should be made for manual training in the primaryschool course. Scholarships and Free should be increased in number, but the number of free places should be materially reduced. Many of the pupils now receiving free places are merely marking time, and the State is not receiving an adequate return for the expenditure incurred on their behalf. In any case, the parent should enter into a bond to the effect that the pupil will remain at school until the-expiry of the free-place period, or refund the cost of his education at the secondary or technical institution. How to secure Increased Efficiency. —With regard to the reference under (11), the first step to be taken to secure higher efficiency must be to remodel the whole system of professional training at the training colleges. At present, in these institutions professional training receives too little attention, and so great a premium is placed, on the close connection of the training-college students with the University that the result is considerable neglect by them of the subjects they have to teach in the primary schools. In fact, my firm conviction is that the focus of any inefficiency existing in the primary system is to be found in the training colleges. From the departmental report on the training of teachers for 1910 it will be found that of the 170 students who completed their two years' training college course in 1910 only thirty-six had, during that period, received training in reading, only eighteen had received training in writing, only forty-four had received training in geography, only twenty-nine had received training in nature-study, and only two had received any training in history or civics at either training college or University. Put in another way—Two colleges gave training in reading, two did npt; one college gave some
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training in writing, three gave none; three gave no training in nature-study, but one of these had a large number of students taking two natural sciences at the University; two neglected geography, and all neglected history. Now, if you consult the reports of Inspectors throughout the Dominion, you will find that for years they have reported the comparatively weak subjects of the primary schools to be reading, writing, geography, history, nature-study, and English— the very subjects which I have shown to be receiving inadequate attention in the training colleges. Reference to the same departmental report (1910) shows that the majority of the students are devoting their time to two, three, and in some cases four subjects at the University, and that to the neglect of subjects they will have to teach in the primary schools, for from the same document we find that the subjects taken by training-college students at the University are Latin, education, mathematics, English, mental science, or modern languages; while in only one college does natural science figure largely. This close connection with the University is detrimental to primary-school efficiency in three ways — (a.) It minimizes the importance of the essential subjects of the school curriculum, and sends out students ill prepared to teach them; for it must be remembered that many of the students will have received no instruction in several of these subjects for upwards of three years —since they left the Sixth Standard of the primary school. (6.) At the University the teaching methods are quite antagonistic to those that should be adopted in teaching in primary schools, and react detrimentally on the methods that should be, and are, set before students in the training colleges, (c.) The facilities for University courses are being taken advantage of by students to prepare themselves for other professions, and afford too ready a means of egress from teaching. Under the bond entered into by training-college students at present, they cannot be called upon to enter the schools as teachers for three years after the completion of their training-college course, and in that interval many enter into other professions. The bond should be immediately operative. In any system of training teachers the needs of the secondary, technical, and rural high schools must be provided for, and provision must be made for some University work ; but that could be done by a liberal system of bursaries for, say, 20 per cent, of the best students after they had devoted their whole time for two years to the work of the training college. To each training college should be appointed an expert in English, one in history and geography, and one in science and nature-study, whose work should be to train students both how to study and how to teach these important branches. Every student should be trained how to study and how to deal with literature from a child's point of view, and also how to write with both pen and chalk; and there should be no exemption from these branches during the training-college course. Until we recognize that the majority of the students enter the training college with very poor equipment in even the elementary branches, and compel them to devote more time to perfect themselves in them, we shall not find the work of our primary schools so efficient as it should be. After this course, students who are not sent on to the University should be compelled to take (for One year, at a salary of not less than £90) appointments in such schools as the Board of the district from which they come may direct. lam entirely opposed to the issue of teachers' certificates on the recommendation of the Principals of training colleges, for the following reasons: (1.) No certificate issued by the Department should be such as to cast a stigma, implied or real, on the certificates formerly issued. This the trained teachers' certificates now being issued to students undoubtedly does. (2.) There is no guarantee that the certificates so issued have been won by equality of work. Each Principal may set his own standard of value, and recommend accordingly. Thus you have four standards. (3.) The standard of University work accepted is altogether too low and too variable. The standard of term examinations varies in every University college and with every lecturer. (4.) I am of opinion that only one certificate of competency for teachers should be issued, and that on the results of a rigid examination in essential subjects reasonably defined. Scarcity of Teachers. —In view of the scarcity of teachers it is imperative that the Department should take immediate steps to increase the supply. It has been suggested that they should be imported, but we do not want the rejects of Britain. If teachers are to be imported they should be selected by two men sent from New Zealand —one from the Native Schools Department, who would pay special attention to the needs of that section; and one from those public-school Inspectors who have a full acquaintance with the requirements of the primary, district high schools, and manual branches of work. In fact, the needs of New Zealand shouid be advertised in Britain by men specially sent for that purpose. If this is done, some attention will have to be given to reciprocity in connection with superannuation. Another practical way out of the difficulty is to establish at least two auxiliary training institutions for, say, three years. At present the training colleges cannot accommodate all the raw material offering, and if such institutions as I refer to were set up, much promising material would soon be ready for the schools. The course in these institutions need be for only one year, and the aim should be the D certificate. The cost of the institutions could be met by the money now spent on free books, and there need be no outlay for permanent buildings. Another w r ay is to make the service more attractive by increasing salaries, and by placing the salaries of teachers on a more stable basis than that on which they now rest. A large part of the unrest and dissatisfaction existing among teachers to-day is directly traceable to this inequitable and unstable basis of payment, for any teacher may find that after twenty years or thirty years of faithful service his income is reduced through circumstances for which he is not responsible, and on his retirement find his superannuation allowance materially reduced. To my mind, the problem of placing salaries on a stable basis is the most vital one for the service at the present time. Closely connected with this question of salaries is the Superannuation Fund. The Act controlling this fund should be amended in several respects : (1.) Provision should be made for the admission of those who are excluded by the amending Act of 1908. This matter has been favourably reported on twice by the Education Committee of the House of Kepresentatives. (2.) The retiring allowance should be computed
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on the three highest years of salary and the consequential financial adjustments provided for. j(3.) Consideration should be given to early annuitants. (4.) Some effort should be made to secure reciprocity in superannuation throughout the Empire. In regard to the staffing of schools, I consider that our large schools are most inadequately- staffed, and in connection with that I should like to draw your attention to the staffing of the Normal School, and compare the treatment that we can give our infant department there with the treatment that can be given to an exactly similar school in other parts of the province, and show you how inadequate, if the Normal School staffing is adequate, must be the staffing of the other schools. In the Normal School we have an infant department with an average attendance of 155 pupils, and there they have the services of four trained teachers, two of whom are there for all the time, and two for a considerable part of the time. One of them does kindergarten work. Now, in Mornington, with an average attendance of 154, they have two trained teachers, and in Arthur Street School, with an attendance of 160, they have only one trained teacher. I think that is one of the weak parts of the administration of the Department at the present time. 3. Mr. Wells.} With regard to the teachers' certificate, would you make that the D certificate? —Yes, I have no objection whatever to the D requirements, provided a good standard of education is set for passing. I think the D certificate provides an adequate outfit for the average primaryschool teacher. 4. Then, you would indorse on that certificate the extra qualifications gained by the teacher? —Most decidedly ; but that is the only parchment I would recognize. 5. Have you given any thought to the new regulations?—l have. 6. Do you approve of them ?—I do not. 7. In what respects?— They make several concessions? —They are a great advance On the old regulations in allowing students to take the examination in sections, but if these regulations as laid down in the Gazette are carried out in their entirety it will be practically impossible for a student who cannot get to a centre to get his certificate. 8. You think these regulations will seriously discourage teachers in the backblocks? —Most decidedly. I have no doubt whatever on that point. 9. Supposing facilities are offered by the Boards in the various centres in the holiday time, do you think it would be a fair thing to ask teachers to occupy their holidays in obtaining the practical requirements set out in the new regulations?—lf these are the only practical requirements you are going to ask for in connection with science, they are not worth anything. lam speaking now from a teacher's point of view. Ido not think you have any right to ask a teacher to sacrifice part of his holidays. Ido not think it would be a great sacrifice for one year, and if a teacher has ambition, and is eager to get it, he will not make much demur at sacrificing his holidays on one occasion; but you have no right to ask him to do it. 10. You stated that you think the assistants in a district high school should draw as much salary as a first assistant in any primary school ?—Most undoubtedly. 11. Do you hold to that opinion in a case where a man only teaches twelve pupils?—l do. A man who has to do that work has to manage practically six classes, and he must be a man of broad and deep reading, and must be such a man as will command respect from the pupils. If you start with twelve pupils, and put a man of that calibre in charge, the chances are he will increase the number very considerably. I have gone through the work, and I know what it is. 12. Would it be possible to centralize the district high schools in this education district?— Not so far as Otago is concerned. 13. There are no high schools in this education district that could be combined?-—No. The distances apart are too great, and the railway arrangements are such as would compel the pupils to be away from home until 9 p.m., and I would most decidedly object to that. 14. Have you given any thought to a grading scheme? —Yes. 15. Will you tell us what you think of it?—f do not approve of it at all so far as a Dominion scheme is concerned. 1 believe the Otago scheme is as fair and equitable as any system of grading could be, and is very easily worked. 16. Are teachers graded here on any system of grouping? —No. 17. Do you not think it is possible to so grade them in your district? —1 do not think it is necessary. Appointments are thrown open to all and sundry, and those who wish to get an appointment send in an application. The Inspectors meet as a committee, and go over the applicants, and make their selection, and recommend to the Board the names of those they think most suitable —four or six names, as the case may be. 18. You recommend directly to the Board ?—Yes.. 19. In considering the qualifications of teachers, do the Inspectors take into account such matters as attention to environment and interest in things outside the school?—We consider the position from the point of view of the suitability of the applicants for the position they are applying for, and that, I hold, is the only ground on which you can make an appointment. 20. You do not think it would assist you at all if you were to consider the teachers as a whole at certain periods, say, annually, under different headings? —I do not. We are getting the same result by a much simpler method, and we are carrying with us the support of the School Com-, mittees, and with the School Committees the support of the parents. 21. Has there been any request for such a promotion scheme from the teachers themselves ?*f~i Not so far as I know in Otago ; if there has been I am not aware of it. Q! 22. Are you aware that the promotion schemes are in existence in other parts of the Dominion ? —-I am. ;.;■ 23. And are you aware that they-have given very great satisfaction there? —I am not aware of that, except by hearsay. 5 . .- - ; . - -;.,,■;;..
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24. Are you aware that it is generally reported there has been increased efficiency in these districts as a result of the adoption of promotion schemes? —I am not aware of it. That is the first I have heard of it. 25. It is the custom here to submit four names to the Board to be forwarded to the Committee? —Yes. \ ~ 26. Are they submitted in order of merit? —Yes. 27. Then, there is a difference between the first and last of the four named? —Yes; but these four are all candidates who would, in the opinion of the Inspectors, adequately- fill the position. 28. But, still, the man whose name appears on the top of the list is, in the opinion of the Inspectors, ahead of the man whose name appears at the foot ?—That is so, but very often the difference is very slight indeed. 29. If there is any difference at all, is it not fairer that the top man should get the position?— Not necessarily. The Committee, who have the interests of the children at heart, should have their requirements considered as well. 30. But surely the Inspectors are better qualified to judge than the Committee?— They do not know the local conditions as well. 31. Is it not disheartening to teachers to know that absolutely- the best man is not selected? — You are bound to have disappointed ones wherever you go. 32. You think it is better to satisfy the Committee than to satisfy merit in the teacher?—No; we do our best to encourage merit. 33. Under the system of submitting four names, have you ever known any canvassing to go on? —It goes on in any appointment you like to make. 34. Could there be canvassing if only one name was submitted? —The Committee has by law a right to a say in the appointment, and so long as you have that right laid down in the Act you cannot stop canvassing. 35. The Committee must be consulted, but does that not mean simply that the Committee has a right to express any objection it may have to the name submitted ?—Not necessarily. I think the Committee has a perfect right to say whether they will have that man or not. 36. Is it your experience that the sending of four names to the Committee results in canvassing?—lt begins before the four names are sent in. 37. Are you Inspectors canvassed? —No. If any applicant canvasses us he is disqualified right away. 38. You find that teachers who think themselves eligible immediately begin canvassing? —Yes. 39. Do you not think that is a very degrading position for teachers? —It is; but the profession adopted it. 40. Has not the profession rather been forced into it by this system of sending in four names? —No; it has been forced on the Committees by the teachers themselves. I blame the teachers entirely for the canvassing business. 41. Do you think the Education Board might control the different branches of education? — That is a matter of policy- our Board has considered, and I am not going to express an opinion upon it. 42. Do you think anything might be struck out of the present syllabus with advantage? —My own opinion is that the work of the syllabus depends entirely on the training of the teachers and the earnestness with which a teacher throws himself into his work. The teacher has plenty of option in the work he has to do. As a matter of fact, he has the drawing-up of the schemes of work practically in his own hands, subject to the approval of the Inspectors, and any scheme that gives him that freedom within the limits that our syllabus does gives him a working syllabus. 43. Does not the need for preparation for the scholarships which cover the whole of the syllabus lead to an attempt to cover the whole of the syllabus in the primary schools? —That is a matter of interpretation by the Department. The scholarship examinations are now set by the Department, and if the questions are wide enough, and sufficient option is given, any teacher who draws up a reasonable course of work ought reasonably to meet the requirements of the Department. 44. Would you not approve of the striking-out of any of the mathematical geography, for instance? —If I w 7 ere a teacher I would not take it up. 45. You would not approve of the striking-out of any of the arithmetic at present set? —No; I think the present syllabus can be easily^covered. 46. Do you think there could be any rearrangement with advantage?— Yes. 47. Do you think there is any overlapping in the Second and Fifth Standards? —Yes. Concrete examples are introduced too early in the Second Standard. That might be deferred to the Third Standard, and perhaps a little of the Fourth Standard work put into the Fifth, and so on. 48. Do you think that two term examinations could be set instead of three, as at present?— If I were the headmaster of a large school, and wished to keep a full grip on the school, I should consider that three examinations would not be too many, unless I substituted for one of these a complete examination by the Inspector. Any man who wishes to keep a full grip of what his staff is doing must examine frequently and thoroughly. 49. Do you think there is any need to set out in detail the result of the three examinations?— Ido not see the use of examinations unless you enter the results. Personally, Ido not think they are examined in a wise way. I think the work could be reduced considerably by a wiser distribution. 50. Do you agree that the Inspectors should be under the Central Department?—l am totally opposed to it. 51. On what grounds?— First of all, the Boards must receive the advice of the Chief Inspectors, or of the Inspectors as a whole. If they were departmental officers it would be a case of the Boards having to consult departmental officers. Then, again, it takes a man some years to get to know
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his teachers, and if you are going to make them departmental officers, and transfer them from place to place, you are going to lose that close sympathy that grows up between the Inspectors and • teachers. That is a point that is very often lost sight of. There is hardly a teacher in this district whose private life I do not know; and do you mean to say I would have the same sympathy with a body of teachers I was going to visit for a year only. 52. The. conditions in this district may be ideal? —They are the same everywhere. There is no man who has charge of a district for some time, and has the interests of the teachers at heart, who will not have some sympathy with them. Centralize the Department, and you make the Inspectors pure officials. 53. Do you think there might be some system introduced by which after a number of years of good service a teacher should be allowed to visit the Old Country or America? —I am strongly of opinion that the £7,000 spent on free books would be much better spent if the Department sent out year after year a travelling commission consisting of teachers and Inspectors, and I should also include architects. I think it would pay this Dominion to have two commissions every year travelling to some outside country to investigate the advance of education in these countries. 54. You think that each Board might be allowed to nominate yearly an Inspector and teacher to visit other countries? —I do not care how you do it, so long as the Department takes the matter up. But it should not be done without a definite object in view. Those selected and sent away should be compelled to bring back a report on educational lines. It is not to be a holiday trip. I think that that system should be extended to every branch of the public service. 55. Do you think it advisable to admit Class B students who have had no previous experience in teaching to the training college? —Under our present circumstances, yes; we must make provision for them in order to maintain the supply. 56. What is your experience of the result of manual work in our public schools? —I am most decidedly in favour of it, and I think it has been most advantageous to our pupils. In this connection 1 wish to put in an exhibit that I picked up in one of our schools this morning. These are drawings I took from the benches at which the children were at work. That class of work will show you what we are doing in our woodwork course, and you cannot tell me that work is not of educational value. All I can say is that any one who says it is not does not know what he is talking about. 57. Mr. Kirk.] You were asked some questions as to the grading of teachers : assuming that such a grading scheme were in operation, and that four men of equal standing on that grade applied for a position, do you see any reason to believe that canvassing would under such circumstances cease?—No, I do not; I think canvassing can only be stopped when you get a proper spirit amongst your teachers. 58. In your experience, naturally- you come across some teachers of much less capability than others : could the work of the Inspectors be enlarged somewhat, even by the appointment of additional Inspectors if necessary, to enable them to advise teachers as well as inspect the work of the pupils; or do you think there is no need for such a step?— There is certainly need for it so long as we have a third of the teachers of the Dominion uncertificated. 59. Do you think it would be a move in the right direction to have an advisory Inspector to go round the teachers who require more assistance than others? —If the funds were available, and you could pay a suitable salary, I should say yes. 60. Do you think there is need for it? —Well, so far as our district is concerned, we could do with extra assistance, and then we could do much of that work ourselves. When I recall the number of uncertificated teachers in other districts, and the fact that many of them must be untrained, I quite agree that the appointment of such a man must make for the uplifting of the work in the primary schools. 61. Do you find that the School Committees are fulfilling their functions in the way of looking after the school buildings —speaking generally?—ln this district, certainly. 62. Do you know of any case where systematic fumigation is done in this district? —Yes. 63. And of course you agree with such systematic fumigation of schools? —I do. 64. We have had some evidence that there was a good deal of cramming going on I —lf cramming means persistent application, then I say it is absolutely necessary to a certain extent. 65. Do you think there is overwork in the schools at present?— Certainly not. What overwork is done in connection with scholarships could be avoided if the number of scholarships were increased materially. It is with that object in view that I advocate an increase in the number of scholarships—to lessen to some extent the intensity of the competition. 66. The Chairman.] Then, there is intensity of competition?— There is bound to be wherever you have competitive examinations and the number of prizes is small. 67. Mr. Kirk.] Do you agree that playgrounds in connection with schools are necessities?-— Most decidedly. The playgrounds in our city schools are quite inadequate for the number of children who have to be accommodated. In the country schools, in the main, the playgrounds are reasonably adequate; but my firm conviction is that we should have not less than 10 acres attached to any rural school. 68. What is the average acreage now? —So far as rural schools are concerned, the policy of the Board is to secure, as far as possible, from 5 to 10 acres. 69. So far as the schools in this city are concerned, is it possible to remedy the evil that exists —at the old Normal School, for instance? —No, I do not think it is, except at an enormous cost. So far as the present training college is concerned, they have a reasonable piece of ground upon the reserve attached to that school. At George Street it is impossible to increase the area, but they have the Botanical "Gardens not far away. Albany Street School is in a bad condition for playing-areas, but I think it is quite possible to get a piece of ground from fhe Harbour Board. In Forbury it is possible to increase the playground to some extent if the Department is willing to
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provide the money. Ido not think the cost of increasing the playgrounds in the city schools should fall entirely on the Board's finances. It is time the Department realized that adequate open spaces round the schools should be provided. 70.. The Chairman.] Would you not go on, and say the cost should be borne by the Education Department, the Education Board, and the local authority?—No; I am opposed to local rating, -although I am quite prepared to say that local effort should be subsidized for that purpose. 71. Mr. Kirk.] Do you know how many children attend the Normal School in Moray Place? — About 288. The roll-number would be about 320. 72. Is there sufficient playground for that number? —No. .73. In view of the value of that site, and the inadequacy of the playground, should the authorities consider the advisability of closing that school altogether?—lf you close that school you must provide another, and I am not prepared to say at present where you could put it. 74. Mr. Poland.] With regard to the appointment of teachers, is it the occasional practice of the Board, on the advice of their Inspector, to send forward to the Committee only one name?— Yes, when one of the applicants has outstanding claims. 75. When only one name has been sent forward, have you known of any canvassing of the Committee? —You are asking me a pretty wide question. I said canvassing was rife. 76. I understood it obtains generally under the present system? —Yes, especially in town appointments. In fact, some Committees go the length of saying they will not appoint a teacher until they have seen the teacher. That has led up to it. 77. Do you know of any- canvassing of the Committee taking place when only one name has been sent forward? —I am not prepared to state a specific instance. 78. Do you know of any case where canvassing of the Committee has taken place when only one name has been sent forward by the Board?— No. 79. But you do know that canvassing obtains when four names are sent on?—I know that canvassing goes on before the selection is made as well as after. That is all the length I am prepared to go. 80. Do you believe that the Committees would be canvassed if only one name was sent forward by the Board? —If you did not get the Committees, you would get the Boards canvassed. 81. I am asking if you believe that the Committees would be canvassed if only one name is sent forward by the Board ? —Yes, I do, in the interests of the teachers whose names are not sent forward, and with a view to getting the Board to alter their decision. 82. Suppose the Board made a hard-and-fast rule to send one name forward only to the Committees, and let it be know 7 n that no pressure would induce them to alter that rule, and that the teachers in the district were well aware of that rule, do you believe that canvassing of the Committee would then take place?—l do not believe the conditions you speak of can be got. 83. Assuming that these conditions did obtain, do you believe that canvassing would then take place?—My conviction is that you could not get any body of men who will adhere firmly to a rule that they make themselves when they find that local opinion is against them. 84. You do not believe that Boards of Education can be found who will make a rule like that and stick to it?—l do not. 85. You believe that not only would the School Committee be canvassed, but that the Board would be canvassed under that system?—l think it is possible they would. 86. And that the only person who would not be canvassed would be the Inspector on whose advice the one name is sent forward? —I do believe the teachers would canvass the Inspectors. 87. I understood you to say previously that the teachers would not canvass the Inspectors because they would be at once disqualified? —I said they do not canvass us. lam not speaking about other Inspectors. 88. Then, the Otago Inspectors would not be canvassed? —No. 89. And speaking for the Otago Inspectors, you say that no canvassing by teachers would take place? —Yes. 90. But the Board and the Committees would be canvassed? —I say that condition holds now, and will hold under any system. 1 do not see how it is possible to avoid canvassing by teachers who will demean themselves to do it. 91. Do you think that there are sufficient prizes in the teaching profession to encourage the best talent in the country- to go in for teaching?—l am positive there are not. The teachers, as a whole, are very poorly paid. Ido not consider there is a prize in the whole service from the top to the bottom. 92. Do you think it is because the salary is so inadequate that so many who enter the training colleges leave to enter other professions?—l am sure of it. I have had this experience: I have had parents come and ask my advice as to whether they should send their boys into the teaching profession or not, and in view of my knowledge of the few prizes to be gained I have been constrained to advise them to go outside the teaching profession. 93. Do you think the general average salary is a reasonable one? —No, it is not. The average salary is not a fair salary at all. Why, a rabbiter can make more than £155 a year. You must also consider the expense of the education a teacher has to undertake before he can qualify. 94. Do you find any difficulty, as Chief Inspector with the assistance of your other Inspectors, in controlling the Otago District? Do you consider the district too large?—l think it is about the right size for working. 95. Would there be any difficulty if the district were increased, and you got an additional Inspector or two? —Yes, we could not get to know the teachers of a much larger district personally as we do now. 96. Do you mean that you yourself get to know them personally, or your Inspectors?—l am quite safe in saying that each of us knows personally 90 per cent, of the teachers in the dis-
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trict; and if you had the district much larger that would be practically impossible so far as each one of us is concerned; and as we have to discuss the qualifications of teachers for appoint-~-ments, it is absolutely necessary that every Inspector should have a personal knowledge of a large proportion of the applicants. 97. We had some evidence given to us by one primary-school teacher in regard to child "labour : have you any knowledge of that ?—I know that child labour exists to a degree here that requires looking into. 98. Do you refer to the towns or the country?— Mostly in the towns. I would prefer, however, that you put that question to our Truant Officer. I think there are two outstanding industries in this connection that ought io be looked into —one is the Press, with the boys prowling round the streets at night after dark, and the other the milk trade. 99. In regard to free places, you advocate that a bond should be taken from each parent as a guarantee that the child will attend a secondary school for two years?— Yes. 100. Do you think that is a fair thing to ask the parents of some children who have been fortunate enough to obtain a Sixth Standard proficiency certificate, and who are anxious to give their children even one y 7 ear at a secondary school, to enter into a bond to go for two years ? —I am not so firmly convinced about a two-year period, but I certainly think they should complete the first-year period. 101. But do you think a bond should be exacted from any parent in any town? —Yes, I do. 102. Then, you think one year at a secondary school would be simply time wasted? —No; I should not say it was time wasted :it may be to a certain extent useful. My point is this :at the beginning of the year secondary schools and technical schools have to provide certain staffs to meet the requirements of the schools. Well, these pupils drift out, and at the end of the year the managers of the schools find their income considerably reduced, when they ought to have enough to meet the expenses they incurred at the beginning of the year. I think the finances of these schools ought to be safeguarded in some way. 103. Suppose the parent is not prepared to keep his child there because he finds that at the end of twelve months he must take the child away in order to assist in earning a livelihood for the family? —I should be prepared to accept a compromise in that case. I should be prepared to say, "We w 7 ill release you of the bond if you consent to send him to the technical school in the evening." 104. Mr. Thomson.] I think you say the average salary of adult teachers was £155 a year in 1910. I suppose about two-thirds of our teachers are females. What is the average salary for a male?—£2ol ; and for a female £123. 105. Then, you believe in females being paid at the same rate of salary as males?—l do not. 106. Mr. Davidson.} What is your opinion of the finished product of our schools as a result of the present syllabus?—My feeling is that the product of the primary school that we are turning out now is as good as any that has been produced in the past. My reason for saying that is that I find the children reading quite freely books outside of their school course. This morning I obtained information from three types of schools, and I find that in one country school the boys and girls of the Third, Fourth, and Fifth Standards have read on an average eight books each from the school library since Christmas-time. In another school I find that in Standards V and VI twelve have read two books, six have read six, and twenty-seven have read more than six since Christmas-time. In a town school I visited this morning I found that the average number of books read by the Sixth Standard classes outside their school-books was six; in Standard V the average was eight; and in Standard IV the average was three. The children are certainly reading more than they did, and I find from my own experience that in their home life they are using their time and leisure to better purpose than they did formerly. I attribute that largely to the introduction of manual and technical training. Then, coming to the scholarship classes, and following the career of the boys through the secondary schools, I find our boys are winning the usual honours in scholarships. They are going through their Matriculation Examinations as freely as formerly, winning places in the Civil Service; and further on, through the University, you find they are holding their owm in the scholarship and degree examinations just as well as they did in former times. The children are certainly more versatile than they were some years ago. 107. You find that their stock of knowledge is considerably greater?— The answer is given in the statement I have just made. 108. What is your opinion of the finished product of the training college? —I am convinced they are not receiving the professional training that they should be receiving in an institution of that kind. It appears to me they are devoting too much time to University work, and insufficient time to the work for the primary schools. The Principal of the Training College in Wellington himself makes the statement that we are too idealistic and not practical enough in our training colleges. 109. If the Inspectors under the Otago Board recommended that certain teachers in certain schools should be made jnodels, and the students in the training college were afforded the opportunity of seeing those men and women at work and of taking part even in the teaching, do you think such a plan would add to the efficiency of the training?— Most undoubtedly. It would increase their powers of observation, and they would see some of the best methods it is possible to see. 110. Further than that, if within a reasonable distance of the city there were certain soleteacher or two-teacher schools in which the teaching was highly efficient, do you think they should also be allowed to see the work of those schools? —I think their opportunities for observation should be as wide as possible, and should embrace all schools and all the best methods of teaching. 111. When the new scale of staffing comes into full operation the pupil-teacher system will be abolished : do you think the number of suitable candidates offering for training will then
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be sufficient I —Well, it was reasonable to suppose when the Department established its four training colleges to send out two hundred students a year it made adequate provision for the supply of primary-school teachers, and under normal conditions I think that would have been sufficient. Unfortunately, however, increased staffing has occurred in the last four years in the Grade 4 schools and other schools, and this has absorbed a number of the trained teachers who have been drawn mainly- from the training college outgoers and from the country schools. The increased demand for teachers in the country schools has also absorbed some, and the development of technical education has absorbed others. These are somewhat abnormal conditions, and were not anticipated when the Department brought down its scheme for training teachers. It is because of that that I advise the establishment of auxiliary institutions to provide teachers to take the positions offering under the additional scale of salaries. If that is done, I think the number offering of matriculated candidates for such positions, with the probationers, will be sufficient to meet any demands. 112. Do you not think the students who enter the training college would be much better for previous training in practical work?—l am quite convinced that the old pupil-teacher course of four years and then the training-college course was very much better than the one we are having now; but a better one still, I think, would be a two-year pupil-teacher course—--a year's course in a training college and then a further course as a student teacher for two years. 113. Suppose arrangements were made to provide a probationer or pupil-teacher or junior teacher in country schools with an average attendance of between thirty and forty, do you think that would make openings for suitable boys and girls from the district high schools to enter the teaching profession?—Weil, at present you have two teachers for schools of between thirty-six and eighty. 114. Yes, but my suggestion is that you begin a little earlier —say, when the average is between thirty-one and forty. The assistant would then come between forty-one and eighty?—No, I am not in favour of that. The claims of the girls have to be considered there, and this would result in a man being placed with a junior pupil-teacher or probationer, and the result would be that the infants would be left entirely 7 to that junior man teacher. I think the present arrangement is better. 115. You have not considered the question fully? —Not so very fully. I think, however, the junior teachers should be placed under skilful headmasters, and you do not get the most skilful headmasters in the thirty to thirty-six schools. 116. Mr. Pirani.] Do you think the difficulties of the working course in science for country teachers could be overcome if money were provided from the Central Department to enable those teachers to come in for a couple of terms, say, in the year for special instruction?— Well, the Department is doing that now, but it is done at the cost of education for a considerable time in the backblock schools where they cannot afford to lose their tuition. I hold the regulations should be such that the teacher struggling along by himself, with a little aid either by correspondence or personal tuition when he can get it, should be able to get a certificate. Then when he comes to the position where he is teaching science I should insist upon his preparing himself for the science. It is time enough for him to show qualification when he comes to the fifth-grade school. 117. Do you think it would be a good idea to restore the old E certificate, and omit practical science from the examination for it? —No; I would prefer to omit science now, with the exception of hygiene, and insist on the subjects placed down as compulsory in Grades 1, 2, and 3. 118. As regards canvassing for positions of teachers, if it could be eliminated, do you think it would be an advantage?— Most decidedly; but the only way to stop it is to disqualify any member of a Board or Committee who tolerates it, and prevent any teacher who practised it from getting a transfer for two years. 119. Do you not think if it were made a rule that the first on the list in each grade under the classification by Inspectors should be selected that would abolish canvassing—that is to say, if the Board and Committees divested themselves of any power of patronage, and left it entirely in the hands of the Inspectors?—My experience of public bodies of all kinds is that by no system that you can invent or devise will canvassing be stopped. 120. In regard to school libraries, do you think it would be a good thing that there should be a subsidy from the Government in the same way as for ordinary libraries? —I am in favour of anything that will increase the st6ck of reading-material in the schools, and if the Government will subsidize the school libraries I am quite willing to accept the subsidy. It ought to be done. The Boards have the power to do it now. 121. As to examinations, would you be in favour of two-term examinations by the teachers and a third examination by the Inspectors? —They have power to do it now. 122. Would you have it laid down clearly for certain grade schools? —Yes. 123. Mr. Wells.] You were asked with regard to the placing of a pupil-teacher in a thirty to forty school: why should not the place be filled by a woman ? —The policy of our Board is not to place a woman in charge of a Grade 4 school in this district. 124. The Chairman.] No matter how strong the woman's qualifications may be, would you prefer to turn her adrift? —The Board do not turn any woman adrift. We give them the option of transfer to another school. 125. Do you say deliberately that a woman whose qualifications for teaching are such as to raise a school from Grade 3 to Grade 4 is not fit to teach a Grade 4 school ?—Well, the grade is not raised by the capacity of the teacher or of the pupils, but by the number of children attending the school. 126. But numbers do not count for everything? —Yes, the grading depends entirely upon numbers. 127. Mr. Hogben.] Do you know of any country where the schools are not graded on the size of the school? —I am not aware of any.
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128. Do you know of any basis better for determining the size than the average attendance?— Not for the size of the school, but certainly for grading the salaries I do. 129. Do you know of any country- where the salaries do not vary in accordance with the grade of the school? —No; but I think it is quite possible to arrive at a basis of payment that would be absolutely independent of attendance, and f think it ought to be found. I think it is as reasonable to grade the salary of a Postmaster by the average number of stamps he sells, or of a railway official by the number of railway-tickets he sells as to grade the salary of a teacher on the average attendance of pupils at the school. 130. Is not the salary- of a Postmaster graded on the average number of stamps he sells and on the average amount of other business he has charge of ?—No. There is a system of uniform increases of salaries in those other Departments. 131. Cannot a Board transfer the teacher to a higher grade school? —Yes, if they take advantage of the cumbrous arrangement that the Act has provided in connection with transfers. 132. Have you examined into how long it takes for the grade of a school to fall to a lower grade?—No; I have not examined that carefully. 133. Would you be surprised to hear that in the vast majority of cases it takes three years?— It might take that. 134. How long after that is it that the teacher's salary would fall?—A couple of years. 135. Does that not make a.total of five years?—lf the facts are as you say, it would be five years; but you have to take this into consideration : that the teacher, recognizing that his school is falling, knows that his salary may be reduced, and has the fear, of course, that his superannuation may be reduced. The basis is most inequitable. 136. Can you suggest any other basis? —I think the minimum salary should be based on annual increments going right through the staff, independent of attendance altogether. It seems to me that if a business-man took this matter in hand he could bring in a scheme which would be infinitely superior to the present system. 137. Is not the same plan followed in every business in the world? —There are not the same arrangements as we have. 138. Does not this system keep the teachers stable for five years practically?—No; I cannot admit that any system of salaries dependent upon such an unstable thing as average attendance is equitable or fair. 139. With regard to certificates, you said you did not think there should be any distinction between the certificates that are issued to teachers who have been through the training-college course and those who have not been through that course ?—I did not say that. I say that no certificate issued by the Department should be such as to cast a stigma, implied or real, on certificates previously issued. 140. Do you think if those that had received certificates previously had placed on their certificates that their training had been satisfactory- such feeling as you think exists would be removed? —If the regulations issued at the beginning of 1911 were made retrospective, and made to apply to certificates issued prior to 1911, it would, so far as the trained teachers are concerned; but it would not remove the difficulty of having a certificate issued by the training college. My contention is that there should be one teacher's certificate only, and that it should be issued by the Department as the result of rigid examination. 141. Are you aware that the rule in other countries is to issue trained teachers' certificates at the conclusion of the training course ?—I am only concerned with what is done in our own country. 142. Are the circumstances any different in this country?— Yes; we have already issued a number of certificates, and we materially alter the value of those certificates by issuing a different kind of certificate; and it should not be done. 143. Are you aware that the only reason why the English department does not recognize the New Zealand certificate is that it does not show- on the face of it that it is a trained teacher's certificate? —I do not think recognition by the English authorities concerns us at all. 144 Does it not set a standard for the Empire?—l am not prepared to acknowledge that. 145. I suppose you know this matter has been discussed by the Imperial Conference on Education? —Yes. 146. The Chairman.] There is a difficulty you must be familiar with in certain parts of Otago. In those districts where frnit-growing has become the staple industry shortage of labour compels parents to avail themselves of such boy and girl labour as they hay is, of their children's labour. Can you suggest a way of coping with that difficulty by changing the school terms or otherwise? —The School Committee has power now to close the school at such time as is most convenient to the needs of the district, and it does so. We have not found that the attendance at the schools which are immediately affected by the fruit-growing industry has been reduced during the fruit season. The Committees there, so far as I know, have acted wisely in the time they have selected for the school holidays. It might pay, of course, to revert to the harvest holidays system. Robert Ferguson examined on oath. (No. 45.) 1. The Chairman.] What position do you occupy? —I am Chairman of the Dunedin School Committees' Association. 2. You have been concerned in the administration of education as a member of a School Committee in this district for a great number of years? —Yes. 3. Have you a statement to make?— Yes. I am one of those deputed by the Dunedin and Suburban Schools Committees' Association to give evidence. With regard to school-books, we consider that it is an unnecessary- duplication of expenditure as at present worked. Either the children ought to be allowed to bring home the books, or the money spent in buying these ought to be used for some other purpose, because what do we find now? That the parents have to pay
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for books through ihu consolidated revenue, and also in a great many cases purchase them privately. This is only of benefit to the publishers, and an unnecessary tax on parents, whom we represent. Evidence obtained here in Dunedin about twelve months ago showed conclusively that the present system had not worked satisfactorily, and that a change is desirable. It is bad and wasteful policy to make a person pay for two articles when only one is required. We object to this unnecessary expense to the taxpayer. While I am on school-books, 1 may say that frequent complaints are made by parents shifting from one education district to another that new books have to be purchased whenever this shift is made. This expense should be obviated. What is hard to understand is why a universal set of school-books should not be in use from the North Cape to the Bluff. What is good for one locality is surely good for another. These books should be carefully selected as the best for our requirements. The best is always the best, no matter in what district. I do not profess to be an expert in the delicate and important question of drawing up the school syllabus. I, as a layman, speak with a little diffidence after the authorities you have heard. The most accurate test of anything is the results produced, and judged from this standard I am not at all sure that our course is steered in the right direction. The fault may lie in the interpretation of the syllabus. You have already heard a good deal of evidence from persons who are instrumental in producing results from the syllabus as drawn up. So far as I read that, evidence has been in the main favourable; but I may respectfully suggest that it might be helpful in forming correct conclusions if some of those who have to deal with the product immediately after leaving school were to be called to give their experiences. There is one subject which should be made a strong point of in our teaching, and that is the duties of citizenship in its broadest sense, not only in local matters, but in Dominion and Imperial affairs. Every adult has a, vote, and therefore has a direct say in the Government of the country, and it is very desirable that that vote should be cast in an intelligent manner, and we should start early to inculcate in our young minds its obligations in this matter. Prominent questions of the day could be touched on by the teachers on broad lines, and an intelligent interest thereby created; and afterwards essays invited on these subjects, and encouragement given to the children to take a live interest on matters which not only affect their own welfare, but the welfare of others. If this line of thought were started in the child at school it would not be very long before we would be free from some of the queer results our democratic vote gives at present. I would even go to the extent of conducting in a practical manner voting by ballot, to stimulate interest and to illustrate how it is done. As a layman, it appears to me that too much attention is paid to what may be termed classical education. We reward with scholarships students who have perhaps swatted over books, crammed their minds, and thus gained a superficial knowledge—a mere book learning which is very probably forgotten shortly after the examination; while we to a great extent ignore the infinitely more useful student who desires to give a practical turn to his studies. We should direct more attention to the vocation channel —the practical as contrasted with the theoretical; encourage to a greater extent originality of thought and inventive ability as against mere book knowledge. The question of placing a child after he has left school is a very important one to parents, and although this is so, we adopt a very haphazard, happy-go-lucky system. In few cases is any attempt made, either by parents or teachers, to find out the bent of the child's xnind, and to place that child to its most natural vocation. Until this is done wo are wasting a big part of the money spent on education. When a boy leaves school parents may have a desire to put their child to some occupation already mapjaed out for him, or they may put him into the first opening offering. In neither case has any indication been given or sought that the boy is suitable for the occupation. By chance he may turn out a success; by chance he maj- not. But why leave this important decision to chance? Surely we can devise some more exact method of deciding. Could not some system be adopted whereby school records were tabulated under headings to indicate the bent of the child's mind, and subheadings to show the trades or professions this natural bent would lead to. Then every child leaving school could be supplied with a certificate from the teacher clearly showing the points under the various headings. Thus the parents would be able to form a better idea of what to place their child at, and the employer in turn could ask for the certificate, and judge whether it would be advantageous to employ the applicant or not for the work required. If some such system were adopted there would be fewer misplacements in life. Girls without any taste would not be sent to the millinery trade, or boys who would make excellent farmers would not be sent to some genteel professional occup-ation. There would not be so many round men in square holes. Our present methods do not have any finger-posts to direct the child's natural road in life, and until these posts are erected we are leading the child up to a certain point and then leaving him to chance. If the child goes in the wrong course, we should not blame him or his parents, but we should blame our system of education. Until we fully realize this, and provide for it, we will not get the best results from our outlay. I do not profess to be able to solve the problem of how best to attain the end I am aiming at. I leave this to experts, who ought not to have any difficulty in improving on our present trust to chance methods. I merely direct attention to what appears to me to be a grave omission in our education and the duty we owe to our children. In matters educational, where so much is at stake, I believe it would be an advantage to have a Council of Education, as advocated by previous witnesses. This Council should be composed of various shades of thought, and the practical everyday man of the world should have a say. He is really the man who has to meet the products of our school system, and he is therefore in a better position to judge of the results of that system. 4. Mr. Pirani.] Do you think it would be a good thing to have primary, secondary, and technical education under the control of one body? —So long as you have, as at the present time, men who are willing to do that work for nothing, and devote the time to it, I do not think it would; but from an economical point of view perhaps it would. On the whole, I believe it would be best to leave it as it is at present.
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5. Mr. Kirk.] What is the feeling among the School Committees as to the appointment of teachers? Are they satisfied with the discretion the Board exercises generally?— The witness who is following me will deal with that question; but, so far as I know, they are fairly well satisfied. 6. .)//-. Wells.] With regard to free books, supposing the children were allowed to take the .books home, would that meet the difficulty?—l think so. It would save expense to the children, who now buy- them. 7. There would be no objection, then, to the book being handed on to another family the next year?— There might be objection from the sanitary point of view; but I think it would be advisable to allow the children to purchase their own books. It should get over the difficulty if they were allowed to take the books home. A good many of the parents buy books now. 8. The Chairman.] There is a practice in Dunedin and suburbs, is there not, of making a charge for what is called pen-and-ink money? —In some schools that is done. I should like to mention also that some School Committees have to go round collecting money for coal and firing for the school. There is not sufficient money from the vote for the supply of coal. 9. You say there is a decided disinclination to make .use of the free school-book?—I would not say they are unwilling to make use of them if they are allowed to take: them home; but under the present system those children whose parents have not bought them books are a drag on the rest of the class. The teacher has to devote more time to the pupil who, because he has not a book at home, has not learned his lesson. 10. Can you, as a citizen, say whether business men complain that the primary-school education is not as thorough as it was some years ago?—l should not like to express a definite opinion about it, but if you called some of the business men who come directly in contact with the boys leaving school I think you would get an eye-opener. They consider the product of the school is not commensurate with the amount of money spent upon it. fl. Mr. Hogben.] Do you consider the money expended upon the supplementary reader is wasted? —I am not in a position to say. If they are allowed to take it home, I think it is all right. I believe there ought to be a good deal of variety in the reading. James Henry Wilkinson examined on oath. (No. 46.) 1. The Chairman.] What is your position, and whom do you represent?—l am a member of the Dunedin and Suburban Schools Committees' Association, and I am Chairman of the Albany Street School. I have for many years taken an interest in education. 2. Have you a statement to make? —I noticed that Mr. Ferguson, the last witness, made reference to manual work in the school, and I should like to make some reference to the plasticine and cardboard work, in connection with which there has been a good deal of criticism. I should like to say, as a manufacturer, and as one who has taken a practical interest in handwork, on going through the schools at different times and seeing the plasticine work done by some of the children, that they have displayed in a very striking manner wonderful artistic qualities. I have seen children in the Third and Fourth Standards turn out ornamental work that would be a credit to artisans who have been at their occupation for years. I cannot help feeling that many of those children will become artists of whom the Dominion will have reason to be proud. I have no doubt that equally good results are obtained from the other forms of manual work that have been tried at our schools. But the special matter the Committee desired me to bring before this Commission was the powers of School Committees. During the sittings of the Commission some slight reference has been made to the powers of School Committees in the appointment of teachers. In this connection I have to state that, in the opinion of many Committeemen, any proposal to curtail the powers of Committees in the appointment of teachers would be a retrogressive one. At the present time we have something like eight thousand men serving on Committees, and we believe in the majority of cases these men are rendering splendid service to the Dominion. So far as this province is concerned, I think it will be conceded by members of the Education Board, teachers, and others competent to express an opinion, that the system in operation here has worked with highly- satisfactory results. One of the main things that has contributed to the success and popularity of our educational system is the amount of local interest that is excited owing to measure of control granted to Committees. Any attempt to reduce the powers of Committees or to lessen their responsibility will result in men of standing in the community declining to give their services. After fifteen years' experience on a Committee and ten years' connection with the School Committees' Association, I am convinced that no body of men could render more loyal service or be more anxious to advance the interests of teachers and scholars than School Committees. Should a vacancy occur on the staff of any of our schools, and there be a large number of applicants for the position, the Otago Board (to their credit) almost invariably send along the names of four candidates, from which the Committee can select the one they think most likely to meet the requirements of the school. I do not think the Board has in any way stultified itself by reposing this confidence in Committees; on the other hand, this privilege gives the members of the Committees a standing, and an interest in the school he would, not otherwise enjoy—a privilege that is attended with beneficial results. In some places I believe the practice obtains of sending only one name to the Committee. I hardly think the latter course is consulting the Committee, and am surprised that it is accepted by any live Committee in the Dominion. I am. of the opinion that the powers exercised by Committees is an important factor in contributing to the harmonious working of our education system, as only in cases of grave indiscretion are Committees likely to make any complaints against a teacher who has been appointed on their own recommendation. This consideration alone should have considerable weight with members of Education Boards. The more intelligent interest we can get members of Committees to take in educational affairs the better for the whole community. For many years past there has not been any reform of importance brought forward for the improving of the status of the teachers that has not been heartily supported and earnestly advo-
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cated by the members of our association. This in itself is an indication of our desire to promote the welfare of the teachers, and should be sufficient proof that any power we possess is used in the teachers' interest. One very strong reason why the work of Committees should be recognized is because of the large sums of money they annually raise for school purposes. If the same liberality and interest is shown in other parts of the Dominion as Is shown in Otago, then school funds must year'by year benefit to the extent of several thousands of pounds. Many of our schools and grounds in town and country present a very fine appearance owing to the great attention * they receive from the local Committees entrusted with the control of educational affairs in the district. As there are several thousand in the Dominion serving in the capacity of Committeemen, instead of restricting their powers in the administration of educational affairs, it would be better to dignify- the office, and to make men feel their services are valued by the State. Such an appreciation would tend to develop the highest form of patriotism, and lead to a higher form of service that would be of inestimable value to the nation. 3. Mr. Wells.} With regard to appointments, have you ever known the question of a man's religion enter into the question when the names have come before the School Committee? —Only on one occasion. 4. Do you think it right that such a consideration should come in ?—Well, there may be circumstances which make it necessary. 5. Have you ever known of School Committee elections to be fought over the question of appointments? —No, not in my experience. 6. Do you think a Committee representing the people in one small area or education district can have any fair knowledge of the qualifications of teachers who are scattered over the whole area of the education district? —I think they would be guided largely by the reports and testimonials submitted to them for consideration. 7. Do you think testimonials can be relied upon? —It depends upon from whom they come. 8. Have you come across any instances of canvassing? —Yes. 9. Do you think it desirable that canvassing should enter into the appointment of teachers? —If I were going to appoint any one to a position in my own business I should like to see the applicants, I think. Personality would probably weigh with me. 10. In making appointments, is it the general practice when a list of four is submitted to appoint the one at the head of the list? —Not always. It may happen that the man at the top has not some particular qualification we are looking for. For instance, we might want a man to assist in the singing, and if No. 3 or No. 4 had that qualification we should select him in preference to No. 1, who had not. 11. Supposing that teachers were to know when a vacancy occurred that the name of the applicant who stood highest was forwarded, do you not think the Committee would be content in knowing that they were getting the best men applying? —As a Committeeman, I should say it was really an insult to the intelligence of the Committee to make them believe they were being consulted in the matter when only one name was sent forward. 12. That would give them the right to make objection to that man?—lt. would be a reflection on the person whom they reject. 13. Do you not think when four names are sent in order of merit, and the bottom name is selected, it is very disheartening to the three men who were placed above him? —I think, as a rule, the four names sent on are really eligible for the position. So far as our own Committee is concerned, we almost invariably select the first name on the list, unless there are some special circumstances such as I have referred to. 14. You spoke of the difficulty- in obtaining coal, firewood, and so on, down here: can you tell us how it is that in one district the whole of the stationery, pens, ink, and everything of that sort, and coal and firewood arc supplied free, whilst in another difficulty is experienced in getting them? —There are certain Committees who display more activity than others. 15. I mean that the whole cost is covered by the Board's grant?—lt is not sufficient here if we are desirous of doing those other things which we feel are of real benefit to the children. 16. Is the Board's grant expended in any way on prizes? —No. 17. Can you explain, then, how it is that you have difficulty in raising money for coal? — It is possible that some Committees are .more liberal than others when making arrangements for their janitor. Some give £40, others £60 and £70. 18. Mr. Kirk.} You have been on Committees wdiich have raised money locally?— Yes. 19. Do you get a subsidy on moneys so raised? —Only when they are raised for a specific purpose, such as a gymnasium, when we get £1 for £1. 20. Could the matters for which subsidies are given be extended? —Occasionally they could. 21. Have you been on a Committee which required to extend the playgrounds?—l have not, although we feel in connection with the playground of the school I am associated with that there is great necessity for extending it. 22. Are your relations as a Committee with the Board of the district satisfactory?— Highly satisfactory. 23. Mr. Davidson.] You do not approve of the teachers canvassing the Committee? —I cannot say I do. 24. If four names are sent on to your Committee for a junior position on the staff, and two of them are within reasonable distance of the city, and two of them are, say, in Central Otago : do you think it is fair to those who cannot personally- canvass the Committee that they should be placed at such a disadvantage? —The last appointment we made was for a junior position, and the young lady who got it was living in Timaru, and I do not think she was in Dunedin from the time the application was made to the time of the appointment. 25. That was a case where canvassing was not necessary?— That is so. The appointment was made on its merits.
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26. Do you not think that in many cases if the teacher was not able to canvass the Committee would be placed at a disadvantage?— Quite possibly there are occasions when that may obtain. On the whole, I have found during a long association with members of Committees that they are anxious to do justice to teachers as far as they possibly can. 27. Mr. Pirani.] Do you raise any money outside of the money for prizes for school purposes?— Yes-, a good deal. 28. Do you not think it would be a good provision to have some assistance given to School Committees as is given to district high schools of £1 for £1 on all moneys raised voluntarily? —Yes, I think so. 29. Instead of the Board giving you £1 for £1 on money raised for shelter-sheds, would it not be better for the Board to erect them? —We felt that the Board had treated us very well just before that, and we did not want to put the Board to any more expense, and we also hoped to get a new school altogether. 30. The Chairman.] Is it not matter of history that in this educational district there has been for many years a strong feeling adverse to what is known as the single-name selection?— Yes. 31. Was it not responsible some years ago for throwing out of the service of the Education Board of Otago two of the most eminent educationists we have ever produced? —I believe it was. 32. What chance has your school of getting either a new school or an extended playground out of the grant of the Board alone?—l do not think we have the slightest hope. Our only hope is to get it from the Department. 33. Assuming it is possible to get it by that means, do you not think it would be a fair thing if the City Council were empowered by Act to supplement your efforts by granting a pound for pound subsidy?— There are certain expenses that are incurred that are really for the benefit of the people, and I think that matters of that kind are far better coming out of the consolidated revenue. Teople are always more willing to pay indirect taxation than a direct tax. I think the Government should bear the cost of school-buildings. 34. If you were told that the experience of other countries is in exactly the contrary direction, and that local effort liberally subsidized not only leads to greater interest but leads to absolute economy, would you be prepared to deny it when we have never tried it in New Zealand at all? —A practice that has been tried in older countries may not be the best to adopt in a new country. 35. Mr. Pirani.] Are you not aware that the Government every year provides your Board with money to rebuild worn-out schools, and that in Auckland, for instance, they have got £13,000 put on one side from this very fund that your own Board gets in the same ratio? —I do not know that I am.
Dunedin, Tuesday, 18th June, 1912. Frances Jane Ross examined on oath. (No. 47.) 1. The Chairman.} What is your position?—l am principal of Girton College, Dunedin, and am an M.A. of the New Zealand University. After a primary-school education, I entered as a pupil in Girton. I was trained as a teacher in Girton College, and became principal in 1900. 2. Will you make a statement to the Commission? —As the represenfative of the Dunedin private schools for girls I appear before this Education Commission. Nos. 9 and 11 are the clauses of the order of reference to which our attention has been specially directed. Some twelve or fifteen years ago a fairly large number of our pupils came to us after having passed Standard VI in a public school, but of late years the number of these has greatly diminished, and the fact has also been obvious that in what may be termed the " fundamentals " girls are not as well grounded .as they used to be. Too many subjects are attempted, and there is thus not time for thorough drilling in the essentials. A pupil who leaves a primary school educated in a few necessary 7 subjects is better equipped for her future career than if she has a smattering of many subjects. We would therefore recommend a more thorough teaching of reading, writing, arithmetic, history, geography, English grammar, and composition, so that in the more advanced stages pupils may be ready to receive and appreciate .the rich heritage of our literature. It is not an accumulation of facts that we consider as the true end of education. To equip young people for their future career three essential aims must be kept prominently in view: (1) Training of character, based on a knowledge of the scriptures and the events of our national history; (2) inculcating habits of obedience, politeness, and order; (3) training a boy or girl as efficiently as possible in reading (including a love of good books), English composition, and arithmetic. With these as a foundation at the age of thirteen to fifteen, pupils, by attending continuation classes for a further period, say, of four or five years, should be thoroughly prepared for any career open to them. After the above age girls can be better taught by women, and the study of home management should be compulsory. An ideal training for senior girls would include, as far as possible, instruction under a refined and capable manager in the chief duties and responsibilities of a home. When the ordinary school course is ended there should be still a desire to acquire knowledge, and then the mind of the student is sufficiently matured to know in what department to specialize. The value of the kindergarten is obvious to all who have the interests of children at heart, In the children trained in a true kindergarten these are the main characteristics we have observed : Physical fitness, quick imagination, well-developed powers of attention, alertness of observation, and a predisposition to school and learning. In the kindergarten are formed habits of body, mind, and conduct which are invaluable in later life. It has been truly said, "an intelligent person looking out of his eyes, and hearkening to his ears, with a smile on his face all the time, will get more true education than many another in a life of heroic vigils." With regard to Government examination of private schools, we are not altogether averse to inspection in the true sense of the word, but
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once Government insists on the public examination of our pupils we should have to adopt the puplic school syllabus, and the very nature of a private school would be destroyed. It would then cease to be —as it virtually is—under the control of the parents w-hose children attend it. Our object in establishing a private school is not the preparation of pupils, especially girls, for competitive public examinations, but true education —that is, to draw out their faculties and sympathies, to develop their tastes and perceptions, to cultivate a balanced judgment, and to give them the power not only- of acquiring, but of using, what they acquire. 3. Mr. Wells.] Why should it follow that if you have inspection by the Board's Inspectors itwill mean your adoption of the Government course? —We should have to prepare a syllabus to work upon according to the school system. 4. Would you not simply hand to the Inspectors your course, and he would question on that? —That is true, if that were adopted. 5. Given that the Inspector would test on the course of study you adopted, would not your objection vanish? —Yes, so long as we could develop our own original methods. 6. Mr. Kirk.} You know there has been danger in the past through people not qualified to teach starting private schools? —That may be so. 7. You know it, do you not?— Yes, I think it might obtain. 8. Do you think it is a fair thing to parents that such teachers should be allowed to start schools, tnd the parents be kept in the dark as to the true nature of the teaching their children are getting?—l think all teachers should be. qualified. 9. Do you not think that inspection by a Board Inspector is a safeguard to yourself and other schools of good standing?— Speaking for our own school, I can safely say that our staff consists of efficiently qualified teachers. 10. If there is Government inspection, do you not think it would assure to parents that there will be a reasonable education ?—Yes, if it is inspection on our lines it would certainly be a safeguard to us in the work we undertake. 11. I understood you to say you were not opposed to the inspection of private schools, but to the examination of these schools on the lines as laid down in the secondary-school syllabus I—l1 —I tried to emphasize in the first part of my paper that we have now so many students who come to us before they have passed the Sixth Standard. We begin from the kindergarten and go right through the whole course of training. 12. Pupils come to you at all ages?— Yes. 13. What is the present number of pupils on your roll? —Over one hundred. 14. Their ages range from three or four, to what? —I have some married ladies in my classes. The interest is sustained long after they have left the ordinary school curriculum. 15. Do you say that in the last twelve years there has been a deterioration in the children coming to you from the primary schools?— They are certainly not so well grounded, especially in English. 1 notice a very great difference in the work in English nowadays compared with, say, ten years ago. 16. Mr. Pirani.] Is it the same class of pupils who come to your college now as came ten years ago, so far as parentage is concerned?— Yes, as far as I can understand. 17. To what do you ascribe the falling-off in English of your pupils?—To the fact that the primary-school teachers have so many subjects to teach that something has to be crowded out, or there is not sufficient time to devote to this fundamental work. 18. Do you think it would be an improvement if all the children in the primary schools were trained from the kindergarten upwards?— Yes, I do. I think the kindergarten is a splendid starting-ground for all children. 19. The children who enter your school are not likely to be those who have won free places?— That is so; and I sometimes think we do not get, as we used to do, the cream of the schools in that way. We get more of the average pupil from the city and suburban schools. 20. You get those probably who fail to get free places? —That is so; or children in delicate health. 21. That may account to some extent for the evident want of preparation?—lt may; but still we had in the past many pupils of the same standing. 22. You stated that the lack of preparation for entry to the secondary schools was probably due to the increased number of subjects the primary-school teacher has to take : what are the particular additional subjects to which you refer? —I do not know that I can specify what they are. I know they have been increased considerably. 23. Can you say, in your opinion, what subjects should be left out?— No. We have put in what we think should be in, and we leave it to the Board to determine the other subjects. 24. Are they not there already? —Yes, they would be in any fundamental education. 25. And you give it as your well-considered opinion that there is a lack in the children coming to your school compared with ten years ago?— Yes. Arithmetic is very weak compared with what it used, to be, and English is decidedly so. History and geography are painful. 26. Is it not a well-known fact that children prepared in the kindergarten come forward for the standards much better equipped than others? —Yes. Patrick Gunn Pryde examined on oath. (No. 48.) 1. The Chairman.] You are an ex-officer of the Otago Education Board?— Yes, I was forty years in the service of the Board, during thirty-two years of which I was secretary. 2. Will you tell the Commission what has been the system adopted for many years by the Otago Education Board in relation to the appointment of teachers? —At one time all the names were sent on, even if there were forty applicants, and the Committee were allowed to elect their man. Then a selection was made, but there was no fixed number. Latterly, of course, the Board
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has complied with the Act in sending down not more than four, and sometimes two, and occasionally one. That was the mode up to my time of leaving. 3. There was at one time a special selection committee, who, w 7 ith the Inspectors, selected the names and sent them to the Committee? —That was always so. The Committee was always consulted, and the person recommended by the Committee was invariably appointed. 4. The process now is that the entire Board sit as a selection committee, and are guided mainly, and almost entirely, by the Inspectors?—l would not go as far as that. They are not guided entirely. They are guided mainly. Up to the time of my leaving I can give any number of cases in which alterations were made in the list supplied by the Inspectors. An alteration was made and a name put in that was not on the Inspectors' list, and another that was on taken off. 5. By whom?—By the Board. There is one definite case that I know. The Inspectors submitted four names to the Board. The Board, in its wisdom, struck out one of those names and put on the name of another teacher. That teacher whose name was put on without the consent of the Inspector got the appointment, and it was one of the best appointments in Otago. 6. Do you, as an old and experienced officer of the Board, approve of the system of sending four names, or do you think the Inspector should select the ablest of the applicants, and the Committee only adopt that one name?—l am clearly of opinion that the Committees of Otago are just as capable of making appointments as the Otago Education Board, and 1 should be very sorry to see the powers of the School Committees curtailed whilst there is such buttonholing and influence being used on members of the Board. 7. In your opinion, does canvassing go on both with regard to members of the Board and Committeemen I —Yes. 8. And it is an undoubted evil in Otago?—An undoubted evil. At one time there was a regulation that it was a disqualification if a teacher canvassed a member of the Committee or the Board. 9. Did you ever know of a disqualification for that cause? —No. The regulation was subsequently wiped out. Members said they liked to see the candidates, and know who he or she was. 10. Is there any ground for the statement publicly made that in cases of the appointment of teachers other questions than the teachers' qualifications have been considered ?—I could not speak definitely on that point, but more buttonholing and canvassing go on in and around Dunedin than in the whole of the rest of the district. There may be cases where a man. is selected because he is a jolly good fellow, but I would not like to say- so. My experience of country Committeemen is that they are anxious to get the very best teacher for their school, and there is less influence brought to bear on them in making appointments than there is in making Dunedin appointments. When a selection of four names is made the applicants do not need to go to the office to ascertain whether they are included in the four or not, because they are written to and informed that their names have been sent on as eligible applicants. Yet what do we find? After the selection committee has met we find a teacher standing at each corner of the street waiting for members to come out, in order to ask if his name has been sent on. If he is told in the affirmative he is off at once, and gets a day's canvassing of the members of the School Committee in advance of the other man who was not able to be in town. 11. Is it too strong to say that this pernicious influence is exercised principally in and around Dunedin ? —I would not like to say that. 12. It does exist in other parts of Otago?—No doubt, but it has not been so pointedly brought under my notice. 13. Can you suggest any way by which that undesirable influence could be got rid of? —I have no hesitation in saying that the biggest mistake in the administration of education was fhe splitting-tip of the district into wards. Formerly it did not matter whether a man lived in Oamaru, Tapanui, or Dunedin. He was elected to the Education Board for his worth, and there were always two or three Dunedin men on the Board. We had men like Professor Shand, Mr. A. C. Begg, Dr. Hislop, Mr. Donald Reid, Mr. Henry Harraway, who were elected by the School Committees of Otago, and not merely by the School Committees of a particular district. They represented Otago, and I have no hesitation in saying that Dunedin was as well represented then as it is now. 14. Was it not the fact that the claims of the country and the claims of the towns in those days received equal attention ? —Certainly. 15. And 'to the advantage of education generally?— Yes. I do not think that Dunedin has been one bit better attended to in the last seven years than under the old system. The personnel of the Board has not been improved under the ward system. 16. Can you tell us how 7it is that some services in the schools are rendered free in some districts in New Zealand and are charged for in Otago?—Because the people of Otago are more independent, and like to pay.for something themselves. A great number of parents consider it a privilege to provide stationery and pen-and-ink money. 17. To what extent were free school-books in use when you were in the service of the Board? — When introduced there was strong opposition to it by the Otago Board. It was the last in the Dominion, I think, to adopt it. Hundreds of country- people have seen me on the subject, and you might almost say they are unanimously opposed to the free-book system. 18. Was the system ever demanded by the City School Committees or parents?—l never heard of it. 19. What do you think is the objection?—l think there is a feeling on the part of parents that they want to provide their own books. lam speaking, of course, principally of the farminodistricts. 20. There is no objection, is there, to the supplementary reader?— Mostly to the other books. If I mistake not, the Board sent in one or two protests.
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21. What is your opinion regarding the complexity of the returns demanded of the Boards by- the Department?— One-half of the returns could be done away with. If the Department started ofrwith the belief that the Board and its officers were honest it would be all right. I believe the returns are not as numerous now as they were at one time, but it is an everlasting check to see that we.do not make 3 plus 1 equal 5. Ido not think many of our returns have come back as being incorrect. 22. Do you think it would be wise or otherwise to submit the general matters of the control of education in respect to the primary, secondary, and technical schools to the Board of the district in order to achieve uniformity of administration? —I was in the office when the high schools and primary schools were under one Board, and if f wore in office I would do all I could to keep them separate, because I know wdiat they were when they were not separate. But there are new conditions now, and it is a matter of economy and efficiency, and I do not see why they could not be run together. But when they were run together before it led to the appointment of a Royal Commission and a separate governing body being appointed. 23. Having regard to the judicious system of co-option by which men like yourself, who have got a close knowledge of administration, and whose services could be availed of—w 7 ould not it be an advantage to have a Board administering these branches of education under one regime'! —I believe it would, but it is a matter on which I have an open mind. All I can say is I was very glad when the Boards were separated. 24. Do you think the duties of the School Commissioners of Otago, if that body still existed, could have been taken over by the Education Board?—Of course they could. I had control of the School Commissioners' work in the early days, and found no difficulty with it. All the educational reserves were administered by the Education Boards at one time. 25. As a man who moves a good deal among men in business who are in the habit of employing boys who come from the primary schools, can you say whether the complaints made to you, officially or unofficially, as to the quality- of instruction given to-day, compare with the complaints made twenty years ago? —There have always been complaints, and they are just about the same to-day as they were twenty years ago. You get hold of a man who is very smart at figures, and he will give a long column to a boy to add up, and because he does not make a good fist of it right away he says the boys are not properly instructed. Ido not think things are any worse now than they were before. There is one point that I feel very strongly on, and which Ido nof think the members of the Commission are conversant with. I think all the other Boards in New Zealand are in the same position. It is the manner in which the Boards are treated when applications come in for the establishment of new schools. An application comes in for the establishment of a new 7 school in a district. There is a printed form sent out requiring the names of the children, their age, the parents, the distance of the nearest school, the distance of the various children from the proposed school, and a lot of other information. That is done, and the Board authorizes an Inspector to visit the district and report on the application. The Inspector visits the district, goes all over it, and reports either for or against the application. If he reports in favour the application is sent on to the Minister on a printed form. Very often the Inspector is accompanied by the member of the Board for the district. The next the Board hears about the matter is that the Ranger, or a Rabbit Inspector, or a surfaceman has been all over the district on behalf of the Government ascertaining if the Board's information is correct. That man reports to the Government, and if he says "No," there is no grant forthcoming. I may say there are very few cases in Otago where the grant has not been got. When the Otago Central Railway was being made one school increased in numbers, and three or four miles further on there was a township established. An application was sent in for a school, and the Inspector reported that the children were attending school four miles away. Some were going up by train and others were walking, but because of the time at which they arrived at the school and the hour at which they had to leave they were onlygetting about three hours per day instruction. I can quote the case of the Rough Ridge School as a concrete example of what I have been referring to. Unnecessary expense was incurred in making additions to that school, instead of establishing, as we suggested, a school at Ida Valley, as was subsequently done. 26. So that if local knowledge had been followed in the first instance by the Department that expense would have been avoided? —If the Department would simply believe that the Board is honest in its recommendations it would tee' all right. 27. We may take it that it would make for better relationship between the Boards and the Department if the Boards were trusted more in matters relating to new schools or additions to schools where local interests are paramount ? —ln all cases. 28. Would it not be advantageous if all questions of local control and matters not involving structural alterations were entrusted to School Committees instead of having to be referred to the Boards for final decision? —Yes; but where are they to get the money. Of course, you must bear in mind that the Board has a good officer expressly for this purpose. 29. Would it not tend to economy of administration if power were given to the local authority to rate for such works, the funds so accruing to be liberally supplemented from the consolidated revenue? —That is a question of policy, and I do not care to answer it. 30. Have you formed any opinion as to the value or otherwise of institutino- a Council of Education to deal with all questions relating to the interpretation of the syllabus, and to advise the Minister as to the code of education ?—Well, experts meet every two or three years now and spend a lot of time going over it. 31. What becomes of their consultations?—l do not know. I know that two years ago a conference met in Wellington, and dealt with a number of important matters, but the attitude of the Minister and the Department to that conference was not encouraging. We waited on the Minister, with the result that I think I am perfectly safe in saying he threw cold water on us.
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32. Your experience of the one conference you attended was not of a character to warrant you recommending a continuance of them? —Certainly not. 33. You disapprove of the canvassing that is said to be going on in connection with the appointment of teachers? —Certainly. 34. Can you suggest any method by which that evil can be eliminated from appointments l— Get men of backbone appointed to the Board. 35. Do you think, if the Otago Education Board were to abandon their privilege, as is done in Auckland and Wanganui, and the teachers were carefully graded, and the Inspectors alone were the judges as to who had the greatest claim for appointments, that would remedy the evil? — Yes; but is the Inspectors' recommendation to go back to the Board, because if so it is not worth the paper it is written on. 36. But if the Inspectors arc to be the final judges as to who has the greatest claim? —From my experience of Otago Inspectors, I should say that would be a distinct advantage; but not if the recommendation is to go back to the Board. 37. You do think that the Boards' Inspectors are the best judges, and are men who might be trusted? —I am speaking of my knowledge of Otago men. I have every confidence in their dealing with such matters; but Inspectors are human, after all. 38. Mr. Davidson.] You spoke about the division of the district into wards, and stated that the personnel of the Board was not better now than it was under the single district system?—l did, and I went a long way further. 39. Would it not be possible, under a single district system, to have Dunedin and suburbs entirely unrepresented?—My experience long before the district was divided Was that a good man, no matter where he lived, was returned to the Education Board. 40. Is it not a fact that under the old system the City of Christchurch was at one time actually unrepresented on the Board?— That was their own fault, 41. In your opinion, have many unnecessarily- small schools been established in this district? —No. I am very much in sympathy with the establishing of small schools. 42. Can you think of any school that has been established that in your opinion was unnecessary? —No. There are only two schools that I can think of that were established that had to be closed and shifted, and that was owing to shifting population. 43. Do you think that the school at the junction on the North Road was necessary?— Well, any school that has an average attendance of eighty pupils justifies its existence. 44. How far is that school from the North-east Valley School? —It is not so much the distance as going up the hill face. The school at the junction was established because of the great hardship caused the children in going up and down the hill every day. 45. The Chairman.] When the school was planted there is was a necessity?— Yes. 46. Mr. Davidson.] Do you think if it were possible to establish a central school, and convey children along good roads, or along the railway, the educational advantages would be very great? —I do not know that there are many districts in Otago where that would work well. In very fewcases do the trains run to suit school-hours. 47. You stated that the Otago Education Board was the last to accept the issue of free books? —Yes. 48. Did not the Otago Board refuse because in their opinion the grant was not sufficient?—■ There may be something in that; I am not sure. 49. At the same time, in your opinion, the granting of free books was a mistake? —Yes, and I do not think the people want it now. 50. Mr. Kirk.} As to the cost of administering the Department, are you satisfied that value is being received for every £1 spent?—l certainly think they could do with considerably less staff in the Central Department, if there was less of this error-finding business. I think there is too much looking after us altogether. 51. Speaking of the relations which exist between the Central Department and the Boards, have you any other matters to bring forward out of your experience?— No. I want you to understand that my personal relations with the officers of the Department are as good as they could possibly be. Personally I respect them all. It is this craze for centralizing everything in Wellington that I object to. I believe it would add materially to the success of the administration if there was less of this centralization. If we want an addition to a school, or a change of this site or that, an officer must come down from Wellington to see if it is right. 52. You think the Board should be allowed to decide.these matters?— Most decidedly, and should be allowed to say absolutely whether a school is necessary or not without a Ranger having to be sent to report on it. 53. With the exception of these two matters —the number of returns and extension of powers—• there is nothing else you can bring forward? —No; I have thought of nothing. 54. Mr. Wellst.] I suppose the establishment of a school in a country district is considered of very great advantage in the district, and adds to the value of the land?—lt is considered a necessity. 55. Have you ever known instances of pressure being brought to bear on members of Boards to get a school established where there is really no need for it? —No. I will say that the Board has never established a school without its Inspectors, plus some members of the Board, reporting on it. If the Inspector opposed the application, it was hung-up. 56. Do you know that in some districts of the Dominion schools have been erected where they- were not needed, and does that not account for the care the Department has exercised in these matters? —The Department ought to know who they are dealing with. If after all these years they have found out that the Otago Board has never misled them, they have no right to throw suspicion on the Board.
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57. Mr. Pirani.] Do you know anything about the Replacement Fund which is supposed to be in the hands of the Otago Board ? The Department reckon that a certain percentage of the Maintenance Fund ought to be put on one side by the Boards for the replacing of worn-out-schools : do you know 7if the Otago Board has any nest-egg put on one side for replacing worn-out schools I—l1 —I do not. The Otago Board has spent all it could get on buildings. ■. -58. Then, is the sum allowed by the Government for maintenance and rebuilding insufficient to allow you to put a nest-egg on one side for rebuilding?— The Otago Board has always rubbed along very well with it. 59. But there is no balance?— No. 60. So the money is insufficient to rebuild worn-out schools in addition to maintaining present schools? —It would appear so. 61. Mr. Thomson.] The amount allowed for maintenance of wooden buildings is 3 per cent., and the amount allowed for the reinstatement of worn-out buildings is 3 per cent: are you aware that Auckland has £13,000 set aside for the purpose of reinstating worn-out buildings?—No; fortunate Auckland. 62. Southland has a similar amount. Do you think 3 per cent, is a sufficient amount to allow for the reinstating of wooden buildings? —The matter was gone into at one time, but I really forget the figures. However, 3 per cent, looks very small. Our buildings are always being repaired. When the most of these buildings were put up, thirty-two years ago, concrete piles were not thought of, and wooden piles were used, and it is a very costly matter putting new piles under these buildings. Another heavy expense has been connecting with the drainage system, for which the Board has got no assistance. I am sure thousands and thousands of pounds have been spent in renewing outhouses in connection with the drainage system.. 63. Mr. Wells.] Does the Committee or the Board pay for the water? —I think the Board pays for the water. If the Board had been in a position this last four or five years to put aside the money it has spent on drainage and new outhouses it would have been able to save a very great sum. 64. The Chairman.] Is not one of the most unsatisfactory features of the primary system the amount of leakage of pupils that goes on? —I do not know that very much goes on. 65. Is it not over 50 per cent, in Standard VI?—So long as labour is what it is the needy parent will send his child to work. 66. Is it not a fact that the worst form of leakage occurs in the small schools?— Yes, because there the child is of more value in connection with dairying. In many of the small schools the pupils are children of parents who have recently taken up land, and are not very flush with money. 67. Is that not where the uncertificated teacher bulks largely? How many- are in Otago at the present time? —I cannot tell you, but many of the uncertificated teachers in Otago are doing better work than the certificated teachers. They are more accurate in their returns. 68. Where does accuracy in the returns benefit the child in the school? —If you get a man who is accurate and methodical in his work you will find he is accurate and methodical in his teaching. I have just one more remark to make. Mr. Goyen in his evidence said he believed tliat the teacher on the top of the list should get the appointment: he did not tell you on how many occasions his list Was submitted to the Board and altered by the Board. 69. Do you know from your official knowledge that when the Inspectors have made a selection of the man who is most fitted in terms of the regulations for an appointment that that recommendation has been turned down by the Board?— Not if one name only was submitted, but if he was one of four, yes. Rachel Selina Reynolds examined on oath. (No. 49.) 1. The Chairman.} I understand you have been engaged for a great many- years in the social life of Dunedin, and have been actively interested in the work of the Dunedin Free Kindergarten Association? —Yes. I wish to lay before the Commission a short synopsis of the views which I hold after long years of work in connection with the training and development of young children. The first thing I. consider necessary to remember is that the aim and object of all education ought to be to evolve all the highest and best latent possibilities in the child, and so to help the child to build them into a sound substantial character, founded on the belief that an all-pervading Presence is always with them, watching over them, with a mighty phalanx of helpers, if their aims are high. I consider that practical and experimental teaching should be allotted before any other system where possible. We should begin with the infant of three in the kindergarten, with its many and various methods of interesting work, whereby the child learns the thorough use of its fingers, and of beginning calisthenics and play —the use of all its faculties. This system of using the activities should be carried on as much as possible in the more advanced schools, and the love of work encouraged in every way. No drones or uninterested incapables of any kind should be allowed. We thus open up many and unexpected avenues of interest. Children when practically taught and fully interested can absorb far more than any one would imagine without wearying or suffering fatigue. It is dreary lessons, struggled with alone, that jades the energies. All education should be on broad lines of thought and action, reaching out towards the highest ideals, and should produce the most capable all round citizens, both men and women. It should be essential, even compulsory, that all girls be taken through a simple course of cooking and general domestic work, the keeping of household accounts, and also some lessons in connection with the feeding and rearing of infants. In connection with such a scheme I notice a marked improvement in all those girls who are in the Girls Peace Scout movement. The discipline, drill, first-aid and ambulance, signalling, cooking, cutting out, &c, with their Saturday afternoons on the hills with their Scout leaders, nature-studying, &c, is leaving a beautiful result upon the girls in every way. I observe equally satisfactory results in our kindergarten teachers. It is most marked. Their studies in psychology, nature-studies, &c, and their work
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with the infants generally is bringing out very beautiful results in their own characters. In reference to the many complaints which reach me of the growing corruption in young people, ■ and even little children, 1 would strongly urge the removal of all the undergrowth surrounding the whole town. It is unsightly, it is unnecessary, it is suggestive of evil, and therefore should be removed in order to safeguard those who are too young and too ignorant to realize the agony *of mind and. sorrow from which they may have to suffer later on. I also refer to defectives : those are a great and terrible danger wherever they are. And, to my mind, without any hesitation, I would have them so treated surgically that there would be no further danger with them. And 1 feel sure that the poor nature, thus released from, the hideous passion which was destroying it, would develop into a placid, helpful, useful citizen. In these days we know that thought is a thing —not an evanescent nothing—much more potent even than ether, for it can bid such things to its use, but wireless telegraphy, the gramaphone, photography, and many other of the numerous recorders of the present day, may bring us the conviction that there are processes in nature which act automatically- whereby all our thoughts and actions are preserved to meet us in the certain future. These thoughts should be most emphatically impressed upon the young of this age. Mr. Baker, in charge of Dr. Bernado's Home at Stepney Causeway, assured me that the physical drill and discipline, the general hard work and good training carried on into every trade which it was possible to teach the boys, was, he was sure, the cause of the very small percentage of failures —some 2 per cent., he said —and that from the refuse of London. John Biggar Waters examined on oath. (No. 50.) 1. The Chairman.] What are you? —I am a grain-merchant, residing in Dunedin. 2. You have been for a number of years concerned in the administration of School Committees in your own city ?—Yes. I was president of the Dunedin School Committees' Association for some time. 3. You have never been a school teacher?— No. 4. What I understand you wish to address the Commission upon especially is the character of the education imparted in the primary schools to-day. Are you in a position to make a comparison between that system and the system that prevailed some years ago?— Well, business-men are concerned rather with the results than with how those results are attained. What we specially desire from boys coining from the primary schools into business life is a sound foundation upon which we can build their particular training —technical or vocational. As to the boys who come to us from the Sixth Standard, or with proficiency certificates, we find that the handwriting of those boys is not wdiat we would expect. There are exceptions, and there are schools in Dunedin which are exceptions; but I am speaking of the general average. Business people are inclined to think that the handwriting of the boys in fhe higher classes might possibly suffer from the fact that they now take so many subjects at the schools. They do not seem to be taught the necessity of clearness of penmanship. We do not expect style, but we do expect clearness. Very often we find when a boy has been taught a wrong style it takes some years before he can be taught to write decently. Those ornamental styles are of no use to us. Then, in regard to arithmetic, we find in the average boy the training has not been sufficiently thorough. He has covered a wide field —has been taught rules and problems which he will never by any chance meet with in after life; but the trouble is that he has not been taught the absolute necessity for accuracy. We want him to at least add up half a dozen figures accurately. There is a want of accuracy, in short, in the first four rules of arithmetic; and it is generally several years before we can get him sufficiently grounded to be able to trust him, and to know for a fact that in ninety-nine cases out of a hundred he will add up a column of figures correctly. There are special qualifications and problems connected with the various branches of business, but those things are easily acquired later. Then, with regard to English, the great difficulty we find is that the boys who come to us cannot express themselves accurately either in speech or in writing. They appear, too, to have a difficulty in thinking clearly. In the first place, the average is very deficient in enunciation. It is .quite a common thing to have to ask a boy who comes from a primary school to repeat himself when he comes in with the most simple message. I do not know what the reason is. Possibly 7 the old system of giving elocuton, and so on, which was taught in the schools in my time, is no longer in vogue, but there seems to be some want there. I have one boy in my mind now who was the dux of one of the primary schools about a year ago, and that boy has the greatest difficulty in expressing himself clearly, although there is nothing wrong with his voice. And as to writing and composition, I do not know how a boy would fare in an office if he were asked to write an ordinary letter, because no boy is asked to write a letter for his first two or three years in business life. But there is an absolute necessity for training a boy to think logically and to speak distinctly, and for this reason : that letter-writing is now a thing of the past in business. A business-man dictates to a stenographer, and in order to be a successful business-man one must be able to think, logically- and express oneself clearly. Nowadays we have to dictate thirty to forty letters in a morning on the most diverse subjects, and w 7 e let them go almost without correction. I insist on my boys taking English in the technical school, as well as book-keeping. We can teach a boy book-keeping in an office without the technical school, but you cannot give him the gift of English composition. What we want is a solid foundation in the three essentials of education. Ido not care a bit about anything beyond that. The difficulty we find is that the boys are fed up with the idea that the moment they leave the primary school their education is finished, whereas it is only beginning. That is really all I have to say as a merchant and as a member of the School Committees' Association. 5. Mr. Pirani.] Do you know at what age boys usually get their proficiency certificates? — I think, at about fourteen or fifteen.
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6. Do you remember when you left the primary school what your attainments were? —Yes, pretty well. 7. Do you think they were better than those of the boys leaving now?-—1 think they were much more limited, but I believe we were better grounded in those days. 8. How long was it after leaving school that you were able to take up responsible work?—Of -course, I am an,Otago High School boy, so that I am not able to judge. 9. Have you been much inside the schools when the work lias been going on? —Yes. 10. Have you ever been inside a kindergarten school? —Yes. 11. Have you not noticed that one of the essentials under that system is to get the children to express themselves properly ?—Yes. 12. Do you think if such a system as the kindergarten were extended throughout school life you would get a very much better system of education than by the methods we have now 7 ? —1 cannot say; I can only speak of the results. I cannot criticize the methods. 13. Mr. Davidson.] Do you approve of attendance at continuation classes after a boy has entered a trade or business—supposing him. to have left the primary school with a proficiency certificate? —Yes, J think it is absolutely necessary. 14. Would you favour compulsory attendance at those classes? —There might be exceptions where it would be a hardship; but, speaking generally, I would. 15. Do you notice that girls, as a rule, enunciate more clearly than boys?— Yes. 16. Do you think if, in connection with the reading-lessons, exercises in phonics and voiceproduction were insisted upon by the Inspectors it would result in improvement as regards distinctness of speech? —Yes, I am strongly in favour of teaching recitation and reading aloud clearly. 17. You know that recitation forms a part of the programme of work in every standard at present?— Yes. 18. Have you seen much of the writing in the Fifth and Sixth Standards of our primary schools?—l have seen it in one school particularly, because I have been asked to judge the writing on different occasions there. At that particular school I must admit the writing was considerably above the average as compared with the written applications I have received for situations. 19. Do you receive many applications for positions in your business from boys who have been at the high school? —No; we would rather take a boy from a primary shool with a proficiency certificate and build en that foundation than take a boy who had fooled away two or three years, and had not done very much, at a high school. We are very particular about the juniors we get, because we know that the junior of to-day is to be the business-man of to-morrow. Although both my partners and I are high-school boys, we have decided to have no high-school boys there. 20. Mr. Wells.] Do you think public opinion would support compulsory attendance at continuation classes—l refer to the general public—the parents, and so on ?—That is the difficulty. The average parent nowadays is so convinced that he had a hard time when he was a boy that he is determined to give his boy an easy time if possible. Ido not think you can hope much from the parents. They find the children useful after school-hours and after business hours. I think the large majority would be in favour of it, but there would be a fairly noisy minority against it. 21. With regard to the opinion you expressed as to the want of thoroughness in boys, I suppose you know that is a very old complaint? —Yes, but what I think should be insisted upon is quality rather than quantity. 22. Mr. Hogben.] With reference to the boys you want to get, you say you prefer a proficiency certificate boy from the primary school to one who has been marking time at a high school. Suppose you could get one from the high school who has spent two years profitably, and had passed the Junior Civil Service Examination, would you still prefer the primary-school boy? —I should not like to say that. If we could get a boy who had made fhe best use of his time we should naturally prefer him, but the impression we have is—and we may be entirely wrong —that a good many of the boys who go to the high school waste their time there. 23. Have you tried any of the boys who have passed the Junior Civil Service Examination? — No. I have had no personal experience of them. 24. What pay would you usually- offer to juniors?—A boy usually begins at 10s. a week. After he has been with us two or three months, and learned the run of the ropes a bit, he would get another ss. It all depends on merit. At the end of his first year he ought to be getting £1 a w 7 eek at least. 25. His average the first year would be about £40 a year?— Yes—thats —that is, in offices, fn the trades I understand they pay higher. I should like to say this : that the boys we have been getting within the past three years have shown a distinct improvement, taking them all round. Ido not know what the reason is. There is an improvement both in arithmetic and in writing, but there is still that curious incoherence in thought and speech. Thomas James Walker examined on oath. (No. 51.) 1. The Chairman.] You are chief of the reporting staff of the Dunedin Star? —Yes; I am also a member of a School Committee. 2. I understand you have a statement to make? —Under instruction from the management of my paper I have made certain inquiries, as the result of which I have written the following article, winch has not yet been published : " Child Slaves. —Over a Hundred of them in Dunedin. —Known as Milk-boys. —Early risers see these boys. There may be three or four about a milk-cart. Quite probably some of these youngsters are out for fun, or to earn a little pocket-money, even for the sake of getting a ride. We admit these possibilities, and grant that many of the boys are, as it were, but semi-attached to the run. In such cases the getting-up early probably does them good rather than harm. They join when they like, and drop out when breakfast is ready. In such
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cases no one need interfere. Our concern is with the little fellows who undertake the milk-delivery as a paid job, and are subjected to rules and conditions which entail unfair work and disable them for school duties. Inquiries made by the Truant Officer and the headmasters show that in twelve schools belonging to the Dunedin district there are 116 boys who regularly do this kind of work. The individual numbers per school are 14, 15, 18, 12, 14, 12, 8, 2, 2, 4, 11, 4. Here is a sample of the evidence taken at a suburban school: Fifteen boys were engaged on milk-carts every morning. Their ages ranged from seven to fourteen years, and they were found in the infant-room and in every standard class. These children rose at hours from 4.30 to 6.30 a.m., and w-ere kept at work from two to four hours. Many of them came late to school every da} 7 , and on arrival were not in a fit condition for work. The payment received was stated to be from Is. to ss. per week; in some cases it was said that the parents also received a certain quantity of milk. One child of seven, who is engaged at this work, was absent from the infant-room, being, as his brother in Standard 1 said, 'In bed, choked up with a cold.' From the figures supplied we find that the oldest of these 112 boys was aged fifteen years and ten months; there were seven at fourteen, and the ages ran down to three at seven. One of these seven-year-old workers rose at 6 a.m., was out at 6.30, arrived home at 8.15, and had to be at school at 9. Another, aged eight, rose at 6. When questioned by the headmaster, who noted that the youngster was poorly clad, he said he had to meet the cart at 6.30. One can imagine the sort of breakfast he would get before leaving. He was often late for school, and, being asked as to this, he replied that he did his best—that he did not waste time by going home, but waited for his dinner at twenty minutes past 12. This boy had a brother a year older, also engaged with a milk-cart. The ugly fact in their case was that the father earns 12s. a day. When the Truant Officer was asked by our reporter whether he had reason to suppose that any of these boys took on the job for a pastime or to get pocket-money, he replied : ' I would not like to say 7 there are no such cases, but I have inquired, and cannot find any in such a position. In most instances it seems to be pure greed on the part of the parents.' One of the headmasters says, ' These boys come to school more fit for lied than for work.' Another remarks, 'My staff find it most trying to teach these boys. They are languid and sleepy.' In presenting these facts to the public we would also observe that some part of the blame seems to be attributable to the Education Act. Subsection (3) of section 149 provides this : ' A child shall be deemed to be attending a public school, and an attendance may be counted to him, if he is present at the time prescribed by the regulations for marking the register and remains present until the closing of the school.' Now, turn to the instructions as to marking the register : ' The register must be marked every morning and every afternoon at a time appointed for the purpose and indicated in the time-table, and not later than an hour and a half before the closing of the morning school.' There is something wrong here. The morning session closes at 12 o'clock, and the register may therefore be marked as late as 10.30. We understand that in practice it is often about that time when the marking is done. So, though the school opens at 9 a.m., a child is present if he arrives at 10.30. This is the margin that undutiful parents work upon to defy the Truant Officer and to virtually evade the Act. Something could be done by way of patching up this leak if the headmasters were to use their discretion and mark the register early. The makingup of the time-table is the duty of the headmaster; and if he were to fix ' the time appointed for the purpose ' at, say, 9.15, or even 9.30, it seems to us that he would to some extent protect these children who are now forced to be late. That, however, would be only a partial remedy for the wrong disclosed. The being late at school is only an incidental evil. The main injustice is in sending children to work at such an early hour as to deprive them of necessary sleep and necessary meals." 3. Mr. Wells.] Your inquiries did not extend to the country districts?—No; but I chance to live in one of the remotest suburbs, and have seen a good deal of this milk-serving, as I am up sometimes a little early in the morning for gardening and other purposes. 4. What remedy do you suggest?—l have not thought that out, but it seems to me the parents are greedy, and press their children unduly in this respect. The only remedy, it seems to me, is to shame the parents into better treatment of their children. 5. Do you think it would be possible to institute the licensing of boys so employed so that inquiries could be made and the conditions looked into?—lt might be workable; but I have not given the matter consideration. 6. Do you know anything of boys employed late at night selling papers, or early in the morning? —I have no personal knowledge of it. I know when I was a youngster I did my share of it. I used to be up at 4.30 in the morning when I was eleven years of age. 7. Do you not employ boys selling the Evening Star? — The office employs runners, who contract with the boys. 8. You know that boys are out until perhaps 9 o'clock at night standing in front of hotels selling newspapers \ —l believe they are sometimes. 9. Would it not be a good thing for the newspapers to make a rule that they will not supply runners who engage boys after hours?—l have not thought the matter out. I cannot say positively that it interferes with their school tasks. 10. Ought not the boys be asleep at that hour? —I am not prepared to say to what hours they work, nor do I know what sleep a child requires. It does not seem to be related in any way to the matter I was required to report upon. 11. Have you seen boys employed at the picture-theatres?— Yes. 12. Until what hour of the night are they engaged?— Until the theatre closes—about II I should say. 13. Boys of what age? —Apparently twelve or thirteen. 14. Do you not think steps should be taken to put a. stop to that sort of thing?—l do not know that I am qualified to give an opinion.
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15. Could not inquiry be pursued in regard to night work as well as morning work? — Certainly; but in the meantime I have not pursued it. 16. Mr. Poland.] Did you not make any inquiries as to whether the boys who work in the morning are also required to work at night—selling papers, and so on?—No, my inquiries did not extend any further than what is disclosed in this little article. It related to the Truant Officer's trouble. 17. Exactly, as to why certain children were late at school and unready for work when they got there. Do you not think the fact that children are employed to 9, 10, and 11 at night would unfit them for work the following day?—l should think so; but in the meantime I have had no instructions about it. 18. Are you a parent?— Yes. 19. Do you think a reasonable amount of work in the morning for a boy of from eight to fifteen is going to hurt the boy? —No, I do not think so. 20. That is, if he goes to bed at a reasonable hour at night?— That is so. 21. You are not objecting to a reasonable amount of work be*ing given to a boy? —No; I think the more work and knocking about a boy gets, within reason, the better it is for him. 22. As to those boys who are engaged in delivering milk in the morning, do they get their breakfast at 6 or 6.30? —I asked a few questions about that, but it was difficult to get definite 'information. I gathered that sometimes a boy would get a piece of bread and butter, and sometimes he would get nothing. It would depend upon the boy's home. 23. Mr. Thomson.] In the course*of your inquiries did you hear it was a practice for boys to get leave of absence from school from 2.30 for the purpose of selling papers?—No, that was not brought to my knowledge in any way. John English Ryan examined on oath. (No. 52.) 1. The Chairman.] What is your position? —I am Truant Officer for the Otago Education Board. I have been so employed for ten years. At the outset 1 would point out that Mr. Walker has covered a good deal of the ground f intended to cover. I might also say that had I known the matter was coming before the Commission I would have got information on a much fuller scale. Three weeks ago I went into the matter, and only have had returns from twelve schools, which, however, I will make available. The position regarding the ages of the milk-delivery boys so far disclosed is that 3 are seven years of age; 6 are eight years of age; 4 are nine years of age; 14 are ten years of age; 16 are eleven years of age; 32 are twelve years of age; 25 are thirteen years of age; f3 are fourteen years of age; and 3 are fifteen years of age : total, 116. 13 boys have to rise from 4 a.m. to 4.45; 31 from 5 a.m. to 5.30; and 72 from 6 a.m. to 6.30. 65 boys do over two hours' work before arriving in school; 36 over three hours' work before arriving at school; 9 over four hours' work before arriving at school; and 6 over five hours' work before arriving at school. Owing to the long hours they have to work, a great number of the boys do not arrive at school until 10 a.m. or 10.30 a.m., thereby losing from one to one and a half hours lessons every morning. According to subsection (3) of section 149 of the Education Act the head teacher of any school has no alternative but to mark a pupil present in the morning or afternoon if he arrives before the marking of the roll —viz., one hour and a half before the closing of the school. During my investigations 1 found there were several young boys being badlytreated by their parents in connection with this work. By section 149 of the Education Act, a child shall be deemed to be attending a public school ar\d an attendance may be counted to him if he is present at the time prescribed by the regulations for the marking of the register —viz., not later than one hour and a half before the closing of the school, morning or afternoon, as the case may be. To show the loss these boys arc sustaining, just take, for instance, that there are three hundred school days in the year, and the fact that 50 per cent, of the 116 boys in question lose one hour or more a day, makes the total loss to each boy about forty days in the year. Their late arrival at school in the mornings has a very bad effect on the work classes to which these boys are attached, and is certainly most unjust to their respective teachers. Several of the boys when they arrive at school are quite languid and sleepy, and unable to do justice to their school-work, and I am informed by some of our teachers that it- is not an uncommon thing to see boys going to sleep in school. As the Education .Act as it is at present has no jurisdiction over these boys as long as they arrive at school before the marking of the roll, I would suggest that the regulation dealing with marking of the register be amended by calling the roll not later than 9.30 a.m. 2. Mr. Pirani.] AVhat is your experience about the attendance of pupils generally in the primary schools in the city?—At the present time it is very good. 3. Is the amendment of the Act making attendance every day compulsory an improvement? —A very great improvement. 4. Do you think the defect in regard to that report would be met if there was legislation introduced preventing the employment of children under a certain age before a certain hour in the morning and after a certain hour at night?—l do. When I took office in 1901 the percentage for Otago was 867, and at the end of 1911 the average attendance for Otago was 91'S, and for Dunedin City and suburbs the average was 931. The matter of boys working after school was also mentioned by Mr. Walker this morning, and during the luncheon adjournment I went into one of the city schools and visited Standards IT, 111, IV, and V. In Standard II I asked for the boys who worked after school, and three stood up, the nature of their work being Star running. In Standards 111 and IV, twelve boys stood up—two were running Stars, and ten were running parcels and messages, and the time they finished was from 6.30 to 7 o'clock. In Standards V and VI, fifteen boys stood vp —five were Star runners, and ten delivered parcels and messages. 5. Mr. Poland.] You do not know whether these same boys are doing work in the morning? —No.
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6. Mr. Wells.] You have not inquired into the evening work generally?— No. mX 7. Have you any knowledge of the conditions prevailing in the country generally regarding milking and that kind of work?— Yes. The conditions there are somewhat different. Many people have dairy farms, and the grown-up children have to milk, and after that drive the milk _ to the factory, and arrive at school late. 8. The Chairman.] You, as Truant Officer, f presume, have some particulars of the children who infest the street-corners at night, and of the class of the community whence they are drawn: can you tell from your knowledge whether those children are an increasing number as conrpared with ten years ago? —No, I do not. I think it is on the decrease. I may mention that the class of boys referred to come from homes where the law has to be carried out in rather a strict manner regarding the school attendance. 9. Is it not a fact that they are the children of parents who are neglectful of parental duty, and against whom you have to enforce the compulsory sections of the Education Act?— That is so. Quite 75 per cent, pass through my hands for irregular attendance, or something of that sort. 10. Are you aware that children of very tender years haunt the street-corners on certain nights when publications of a very " yellow " kind are on sale— Truth, and others of that nature? —Yes. 11. It would be .better for the community if these children Were sent home? —Certainly. It has been a burning question with myself for a long time. 12. Mr. Poland.] Is it your opinion that it would be better for boys and girls if they were kept within their own homes after dark, and allowed out on no pretext, such as selling papers, or anything of that sort?— Certainly. Charles Richard Bossence examined on oath. (No. 53.) 1. The Chairman.] You are an Inspector under the Otago Education Board?— Yes, and have been for the last seventeen years. I was trained in the Melbourne Training College, and had experience of various grades of schools over there, I was associated with the Christchurch (New Zealand) Training College, being method master in the model school. Prior to taking up my present duties I was associated with the District High School at Port Chalmers. I spent four or five years at the University, devoting by attention principally to science. It is not my intention to deal with all the subjects, which have been fully dealt with by my chief, Mr. Richardson. f will deal first with the cost of education. The increasing cost of education is the present experience of all progressive nations — e.g., Germany, France, Britain, America, and Japan. In England and Wales the amounts expended from the rates prior to 1902 did not reach seven millions sterling. In 1910 this amount rose to eleven millions and a half. This is the outcome of a recognition of the importance of education to the well-being of the community, and an acknowledgment of the necessity for having the people well equipped for the battle of life, and for the competition of nations. At times one heard it stated that New Zealand was not getting an adequate return for this —the critic starts discussing the subject from the point of view of money, draws a conclusion, after quoting ratios and percentages, but omits to credit education with anything. In America, where the expenditure on education appears to have no limit, some authorities have supplied this omission by estimating in dollars the enhanced value to the nation of each child as it advanced through the school classes, and American, primary education had produced a good credit balance. Now, from a very careful study of the systems, reports, and literature I concluded that, owing to the average attendance of American children being considerably lower than that of New- Zealand, the very low percentage of trained teachers, and the short time that the teachers remain in the profession, that the general level of primary education must be higher here than there, and if estimated in coin the credit balance would be such as to impel one to conclude that this country is getting an adequate return for its expenditure, and that is my opinion. We have enlarged our conceptions of true education; we have rightly come to the conclusion that much of the instruction in the past had been too purely disciplinary, too much confined to book instruction, too little related to the future lives of the pupils. It failed to give sufficient scope to the constructive instinct, and by shutting the door on nature had caused many misfits, inaptitudes, and failures in life. The authorities had felt that children have been treated in the mass too long, that the staffing of schools must be increased, and that only by improved methods, good equipment, and by enlisting the services of the best of men and women could we expect to effect that harmonious development that is the aim of true education. This entails increased expenditure, and the work done by the Department on these progressive lines should merit the approval of competent judges. " Overlapping."—This term is frequently used to suggest a but overlapping is sometimes a device for strengthening. There is no overlapping in any sense between the primary and any other class of schools. For though we have a little woodwork in our highest classes, it is not with the object of making the boys carpenters or woodworkers, but of lending additional interest and attractiveness to the school work, as it furnishes opportunity for personal experience, for action, for training of the w T ill, for the culture of the executive powers, and for the development of directive power, and as this branch of the occupations lends itself so readily to co-ordination with other school subjects, educational authorities are agreed upon the desirableness and necessity for including handwork in the curricula of primary schools. Personally, I am so well satisfied with the educative efforts of these manual subjects that I hope the time will come when every school will have its workroom or laboratory, and that the community will be more solicitous about this than about a class-room as an addition to the school. Now, with regard to high schools and technical schools. I am of opinion that owing to the classical atmosphere that pervades the ordinary high school, through its curriculum
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being based on University requirements and through the training, or lack of training, of many of the teachers of these institutions, it is inadvisable to attempt commercial education in these SofTools, but that it should be left to our technical or continuation schools, for the work can be carried on satisfactorily only in those institutions where the teachers are specially trained and specially interested, for in this congenial atmosphere a pupil's progress should be more rapid Tind the teaching more effective than where the school is vainly attempting to serve two masters. Our technical schools should not be allowed to make encroachments on the province of high schools by training pupils for Civil Service and Matriculation Examinations, but should restrict the work to that of technical character : the English and arithmetic should have reference only to the commercial requirements, and the instruction generally to have direct bearing on the arts and crafts. To secure this requires neither the amalgamation of governing bodies nor the application of some new power, for the departmental Inspectors can control the curricula and see that the special work and that alone is done. There should be no practical difficulty about it whatever. With regard to the work done by our girls' high schools, I think it high time that the authorities should consider the question of a differentiated syllabus in recognition of the essential difference due to sex between the education of boys and girls. The aim and purpose of education cannot be considered apart from environment; it is not enough to think of the formal value only of any particular study, but we are bound to consider training in relation to the life and occupation for which it helps to prepare us. As the domestic arts are so rich in ideas, and may be made the means of extending the circle of thought, is it not desirable that these subjects should be taught educationally to girls? For have not our attempts to make the lady been rather destructive to the production of the woman? As to amalgamation of local governing or controlling bodies, I fail to see that special interests would be served as well as by the separate bodies. At present we have the advantage of division of labour and all the benefits that result from this concentration of attention. If amalgamation did take place you would have Committees set up to deal with these special branches, and these Committees probably dominated by one man who had more intimate knowledge than the others. Thus you would detract somewhat from the prestige, and have, through the lessened number of members, fewer enlistments of the Great Unpaid, and as this service is an important educating factor in society, I think it is better riot to lessen the institutions that enlarge local interest. With regard to the financial aspect I cannot see that any saving could be effected by it that would at all compensate for the resultant indirect effects that such contraction would produce. The syllabus has been arranged with the main objects of making the young learner helpful to himself, of training him in habits of accuracy and truth, of teaching him the use of the simplest instruments of discovery, of enabling him to weigh evidence in arriving at conclusions, and by acquiring by such means knowledge that may be serviceable to him in life. In short, it aims at the training of the three H's —head, heart, and hands. Sometimes we hear it characterized as an overburdened syllabus, with too many subjects, the implication being that all the topics are to be treated in detail. This is not the case, for the intention and spirit of the syllabus is that with a number of the so-called subjects the teacher has the privilege of treating only so far as his circumstances admit, economy being gained not through elimination of subjects, so much as through elimination of useless, non-essential, and uninteresting matter. I agree with the representatives of the Teachers' Institute that the syllabus is a very good one, the choice of subjects being judicious and suitable, due regard has been paid to their relative importance, and an amount of latitude given to the teacher in the choice of those subjects that are considered merely disciplinary, and a reasonable compromise effected with the practical. The essentials of education are the four R's —the additional R being reality—the study of real things in nature or nature-study. This is not the introduction to the child of a new subject as some of the critics aver, but it is a continuance of his earliest education by nature's methods. In the early life of the child the world of nature is his world. Since I esteem naturestudy so highly I am of opinion that more time should be devoted to it in our schools, and to enable that to be done I should cut out writing from the time-tables in Standard IV to Standard VI. 1 consider writing not one of the EPs but rather less than half an R above Standard 111 as an educative medium. When the pupil has had fair practice, say, to Standard IV, it is merely a mechanical performance, and we should do in school as we do in life —be satisfied with the effectiveness of the instrument. Arithmetic :In the higher classes some algebraical processes might be introduced. Practical work in measurements and problems referring thereto should be introduced. Decimals should be retained —if eliminated as suggested it would tend to delay the introduction of the metric system, in New Zealand. Postpone problems to Standard 111 and Standard IV. Recent conclusions from experiments prove that such work, involving reasoning - powers, can be better left till later — memory best exercised then. Geography : I am opposed to cutting geography from proficiency examination. As this examination is the objective in this class, this most important of subjects will suffer through the teacher concentrating his attention on the few remaining subjects. This is the one subject that brings the pupil in connection with reality — nature-study. "History has been defined as the philosophy that teaches us by examples," also as the " biographies of our great men." Now, in primary schools, owing to the immaturity of the child, philosophizing is out of the question, and having regard to our limitations, I prefer that we should accept the latter definition, and endeavour, By the reading of the biographies of our great men, to lead the child to appreciate the character. History is a subject rather for our secondary schools than our primary schools. I believe the reading of biographical sketches of our great men is the best form of the work for young children, but that history per se a subject only for more experienced people. It should be kept in mind that the efficiency of the service is the objective, and that the service exists for the benefit of the schools, and not the schools for the benefit of the service. Therefore, a colonial system should be estimated solely by its effect on education —by its power to remove
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present defects and its powerlessness to bring others in its train that would leave education in a position worse than it was before its introduction. The term "colonial system" is a question ■begging epithet; it appeals to those who have unlimited faith in the efficacy of a centralizing agency to remove inevitable inequalities, and to satisfy unbounded desires. Now, this French worship erf system is likely to lead to a disregard to the purpose for which institutions and systems exist. The main purpose of a colonial system is to secure reasonable rapidity of promotion in the teaching profession, with all its concomitant advantages to the general education of the community. Now the rate of promotion is directly related to the numbers of vacancies occurring in the higher position, and as "colonial system" cannot increase the number of vacancies in the higher positions, wherever it has been tried it has been found ineffective to effect rapidity of promotion. If such a scheme were at all possible it would have been effective under such a highly centralized Department as exists in Victoria, but dissatisfaction exists there, more intense than with ourselves. Promotion is slow, and gets slower after that grade is reached that includes the greatest number of schools, with the result that promotion is blocked, and the discontent is intensified by the failure of the State or colonial system to effect what the teachers had been vainly led to hope for, but which from the circumstances of the case it was a physical impossibility for any central agency to produce. But in this respect the teaching profession is not unique. In offices, warehouses, and all other occupations where the prizes are few, we have the same state of affairs — promotion is slow. No system that has yet been devised can find accommodation for thousands in a room that will hold a hundred, or accommodation for a hundred in a room that will only hold ten, and this is analogous to the condition of affairs in all occupations. I have studied the so-called colonial systems that have been brought into existence under the most favourable conditions for their operation, and found that, though they have been honest in their attempt and commendable in motive, they have failed in producing the desired results, while, to my mind, they have brought in their train results most injurious to educational interests by estranging local interest through taking away from Committees all privileges in the selection of their teachers. These circumstances have led me to distrust "colonial systems," for after studying many systems 1 believe the system adopted in Otago to have fewer of the objectionable features than any system that has yet been devised, and one that is operating with less friction and with greater advantage to the educational interests than any other. This centralizing agency would lessen the power of the Boards, withdraw legitimate privilege from Committees, and do more to kill local interest than anything that can be devised. " That local interest," said Mr. Tate, Director of Education, Victoria, " that manifested itself so strikingly in Otago by the space devoted to education in the Press, by the well-equipped schools, playgrounds, and gymnasiums, Fargely supplied by local effort, and the interest evinced in these schools that had such an average attendance as can result only from the existence of such local sentiment towards education." The Department has classified the teacher as far as literary attainment and length of service, and has accepted the estimate of his Inspector as regards teaching ability, so a general basis of comparison is provided as indicated by the Al-D5. And this is, I think, just about as much as should be entrusted to any central body, for without personal knowledge of the individual, or special knowledge of the local circumstances of the school—and this no central body of men can possibly have—their conclusion must only be based on the written impressions of others, and their conclusions can be only their estimate of the relative nature of testimonials, as a consequence teachers would then be wise to get service under the complimentary Irish Inspector rather than under the Scotch Inspector, who has a national dislike to committing himself, or the English Inspector who considers it bad form to manifest admiration. The conclusion is that a central Board would entail additional expense would not improve promotion, and would be no better, or, rather, worse, for forming a relative'estimate of the teachers than the Boards are at present. Otago is not a close corporation, and has not been during my experience of twenty-six years. I can name about forty teachers who in recent years, have "come to Qtago from other provinces. At different Conferences of Inspectors I have succeeded in getting among others the following motions carried: "That a Council of Education be instituted " ; " that it be part of the duty of a teacher to visit at least one other school during the course of the year "; " that Staff Conferences be held during the year in the schools having more than two teachers"; "that a Teachers' Registration Act be passed by Parliament " : and these I now commend to the Commission. I consider our system of classification in Otao-o meets the case better than any other I am acquainted with. Our system, as you are aware is that all positions are advertised. Applications are received and gone through by the Board's Inspectors. They confer and arrive at a conclusion as to which applicants should be selected and in requirement with the Act we endeavour to classify then the four chosen. If there is one whose claim is far superior to the others, we advise the Board to send on that name alone That does not frequently occur. We endeavour to give the names selected in order of merit' and when there is not a great difference between them we sometimes bracket them. The Board prefers that we should put them in order of merit. That being done, the Inspectors meet the Board in Committee. The Board goes through the names, and ask why such-and-such has not been included We give them the reason, and as a general rule our decision is accepted. In fourteen years I only remember one alteration being made by the Board in the order m which the names have been sent up by the Inspectors. The names having been adopted by the Board, they are sent on to the School Committee, who accept one of them. Sometimes the first on the list is accepted and sometimes it is not. We ensure that whichever name is selected that teacher is a capable person for the position. When No. 1 is not accepted, it is not the case that No. 4 is always accepted We have a knowledge of our teachers, and also local knowledge of all the schools'and the consequence "is that we seldom have misfits. I think if some of the small Boards were amalgamated and some of the larger Boards reduced a similar system could with advantage, be adopted throughout New Zealand. The enlarging of the smaller Boards by amalgamation
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would give teachers a chance of getting appointments in a better class of school than was at present open to them. With regard to the registration of teachers, I may say that at the present time the teaching profession is the only profession in New Zealand which is not protected. Any one can put up a signboard and start a school. It would not be so bad if a lawyer was to do that, because he would only be enabled to fleece his clients. In education, the effect was farreaching, and the public have an idea that they are getting what they are paying for. In Dunedin, I am informed of a case where a young lady would not. be accepted as a pupil-teacher by the Inspectors. We considered her incapable as a teacher, yet she starts as a kindergarten teacher. I think it is necessary that every teacher should be registered as a proof of certain training and a certain degree of education. I also think that all private schools should be open to the departmental officers to see that the children are being properly taught and housed. I understand that certain kindergartens are being held in second stories when there is no necessity for it. If a fire broke out in the institution it would be a perfect death-trap. Furthermore, there is such a risk of accident to the children in going up and down the stairs. 1 think there should be some State supervision over them. The next point is the want of teachers. How can that be improved? I do not know. What seems to influence most in the choice of a profession is the possibility of getting a decent prize. In the education profession there are no prizes. Your Inspector-General is underpaid. He is a man who should get at least a thousand a year, and if he had been in any other colony he would have been getting it long ago. I know much talent that is being employed in our schools which if devoted to commerce or other professions would bring a competency to their possessors, but, fortunately for the world, teachers are largely philanthropists. But there is no reason why the State should carry philanthropy to such an extent. More prizes might be made in the profession. It seems to me that nothing should be done to prevent retirement from the service after reasonable years of service have been gone through. In Germany, I understand, teachers can retire after ten years of service, but 1 am not inclined to think that our Superannuation Fund could stand such a liberal provision as that. 2. Mr. Pirani.] What would you think was a reasonable school population for one Education Board ?—About 250 schools. 3. You think Auckland District is too large?—I do. 4. Have } 7 ou had any experience of this canvassing for billets which has been mentioned in evidence? —I consider that the evidence that has been given in that connection is a gratuitous insult to the members of our Board. Canvassing will exist as long as human nature is what it is, but to suggest that it is of the intense form here that was stated by a witness is beyond the question altogether. 5. Your Chief Inspector said it was rife? —I would not say it is rife. If a teacher waits upon a School Committeeman he is said to be canvassing. That is not canvassing, to my mind. If I was a School Committeeman I should certainly like to see the applicants for a vacant position. It is important that the Committeeman should see the man who is to teach his children or the children of those who have intrusted him with his position. 6. Do you think the average School Committeeman can judge a man by his appearance? — Some can, some cannot. 7. Do you not think that the Inspectors are the best judges as to whom is the best teacher for a particular school?—lt frequently occurs that a number of teachers are equal; and that is why, with other reasons, I would give a choice to the Committee. 8. Have you ever tried to put down in figures the comparative qualifications of teachers? — I have, and I have found that a number of them came out equal. I trust my general impression rather than figures. 9. Do you not think there are no two men in the world equal?— Anything is possible—l mean, equal relatively to a particular vacancy. 10. If two men are equal, do you think an injustice is done to the man who is not selected? — If one of the two equal men was selected I do not think an injustice would be done, because the other man would get another position. To take away from the Committee the privilege of selecting a teacher for their school is to lessen the local interest of the Committee in that school. 11. Do you not think it is an unfair thing if a teacher has proved herself capable for a certain position, and has done in a particular school, and you have no fault to find with her, that she should be taken out of that position and asked to accept a lower position? —In a general policy anybody may suffer, and what you have stated is just an accidental case. Has the teacher suffered in any case? The Board did not, as some one suggested, shunt her out of this position. I assert the lady was not shunted. The Board found an assistantship position for this lady in a city school. The Board also offered her another country school of equal grade, but she would not accept that, because she did not like the locality. Then the Board put her into a position at Caversham, going out of its way to confer with the Committee, and to get her to accept. 12. Was the salary less than she would get in a Grade 4 school?—I cannot tell you what the salary was. 13. You say you would be in favour of a central council of education, but only as an advisory board? —Yes. 14. Do you think it would be efficient as an advisory board?—l think so 15. Do you think you could get men of high standing to act on such a body, when there would be a danger of their decisions being set on one side? —I do not know, but I think it would be worth trying. It has been done in Victoria. 16. Do you not think a similar experiment might be worth trying in regard to secondary and technical schools?—Yes.
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17. The suggestion is that there should be one body controlling the three systems of education —primary, secondary, and technical —with advisory boards controlling each institution? — Jfes, but I do not support the idea of having one body controlling the three systems. 18. Why do you think that would not work satisfactorily? —Because of the indirect results of it. You would lessen local interest. In the present method you have a division of labour : you have the Education Board, a High School Board, and a Technical Board. Each of these Boards is concentrating its attention on the one branch, and we all get the benefits of concentration. If they were amalgamated, what would happen? These special divisions would be delegated to Committees, so that you would have the same system in operation, only you would call them committees. 19. Do you not think there is an advantage in unification of control? —There might be some advantages, but 1 am not prepared to say I would sacrifice the present advantages for them. 20. Do you classify your schools in this district as to efficiency?— Yes. 21. From 1 to 10? —No, we have general terms —fair, good, satisfactory, very good, excellent, 22. Have you any schools that are known as observation schools, where teachers can go to watch special methods?—No, except that we send them to the Normal School. 23. Do you not think it would be a good thing to have in each grade of school a specially selected observation school, at which teachers should be given an opportunity to spend some time? —I think it would be a very good thing. 24. Mr. Davidson.} We heard something about the difficulty the Board had in regard to the establishment of schools, and two were mentioned —Rough Ridge and Ida Valley : have you any personal knowledge of this matter?— Yes; there is a place called Rough Ridge on the Otago Central line, and some five or six miles distant there is another place called Ida Valley. During the time the railway was being constructed the attendance at the Rough Ridge School rose, not only on account of the railway population, but on account of some settlers being at Ida Valley. The train fr-cilities were such that the children could be taken from fda Valley to Rough Ridge. The Ida Valley people requested the Board to establish a school there. The then Chief Inspector and myself were in the district, and we reported adversely on the application, because there were good train facilities for carrying the pupils on to a better class of school. The Department sanctioned a grant for increasing the accommodation at this Rough Ridge School. As the railway was extended a portion of the population was taken away from Rough Ridge, and the train times were also altered, with the result that the travelling facilities for the children going to Rough Ridge no longer existed, and the attendance fell so that the Rough Ridge School became a one-teacher school. The people at Ida Valley made representations to the Board, and the Board established a household school at that place. This went on for some time, and then, owing to the growth of population at Ida Valley, the residents made further representations to the Board, and on my advice the Board acceded to the request to establish a school. The Department also agreed, and the school was established. The building was part of the addition made to the Rough Ridge School. 25. So, in your opinion, it is not correct to say that the Department flouted the wish of the Board? —Not at all. 26. The Board and the Department, then, were working harmoniously in connection with these matters? —Yes, and that has been my general experience. 27. I understand you consider the Auckland Education District is too large?—l should think so. 28. If that district were so reduced as to lessen the area very considerably, and lessen the number of schools by, say, at least one-fourth, and the attendance by one-third, do you think it would then be within reasonable limits? —I think so. It is all in connection with the classifying of teachers and the efficiency of education, f think it is a good thing that Inspectors should know their teachers thoroughly, and get into sympathetic touch with them. 29. If that w 7 ere done, you would have just about the same number of schools and the same number of children as in Otago and Southland, so could not Otago and Southland be worked as one district? —They might. 30. Would that not give the teachers in the smaller district greater opportunities and a wider field for promotion?—lt would. 31. Mr. Thomson.] I understooclyou to condemn the Victorian system of promotion utterly: have you knowledge of any other system?— Yes, the New South Wales system. They are much the same. They do not give what they profess to give : they hold out false hopes to the teachers. 32. Would it not be better, instead of creating a- few more better-paid positions, to give promotion by regular increment to salary, such increment to depend on years of service and educational status?—l agree with you that suggestion would benefit the majority, but you want something for the teachers to aim at. lam still of opinion that a very important factor is the prize, but at the same time I believe our teachers are inadequately paid. 33. Making a few more prizes would not suit the average teacher, because he would never reach them ?—That is so. 34. Mr. Poland.] You believe that School Committees should be consulted in the appointment of teachers by forwarding to them the four names the Inspectors consider most qualified for position? —I do. 35. Do you think a Committee is consulted in regard to an appointment when the Board only forwards one name as a result of the Inspectors being of the opinion that that teacher is very much superior to any- other candidate?—We must safeguard our teachers. We admit the fallibility even of Inspectors, but when we are sure that the qualifications of one teacher are outstanding, then we do not think that that teacher's promotion should be jeopardized. We find our system works very well.
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36. When the Inspectors consider that the merits of two of the applicants are equal, or about equal, and there are two others a little behind them, then the whole four names are sent on"to the Committee, and it has the choice of the worst of the four? —Nobody is bad. 37. Surely one is worse than another? —I do not admit it, They are all good. The Committee "may not take the best, but they take a good teacher. We consider the teacher at the top of the list is the best qualified, but there is not very much difference between them. 38. Is it not a fact that while the two men at the top may be almost equal in order of merit, still there may be a considerable difference between their qualifications and that of the man at the bottom of the list? —No, that cannot be so. 39. Then, you sometimes only send on two names? —Yes, and sometimes three. Our difficulty is usually in selecting the fourth, because we have so many. 40. You do not approve of consulting the Committee when the Inspectors are of opinion that one applicant is superior to an} 7 of the others? —We do consult the Committee, because they have all the names and testimonials of the other candidates; but we only send on one name. They can object to that name, and state their objections to the Board, and if valid, the Board will not appoint. 41. In regard to the case of the lady teacher whose school passed from Grade 3 to Grade 4, I suppose that resulted from a rapid increase in the population?— That is so, 42. Do you believe that a teacher's salary should be dependent on the number of children attending the school?—No, and I wish a system could be devised by which it did not. I cannot suggest any other way. 43. The only reason for changing the teacher in this case was owing to the increase in the size of the school? —It is the policy of the Board. We believe that, in the interests of the district and in the interests of education generally, a man should have charge of such a school. 44. Was this lady's salary reduced?—l cannot tell you; it might have been. I know it was a hardship, but she was the victim of a policy. 45. Have you any suggestion to make with regard to a reduction in the cost of education without impairing its inefficiency? —I have not, I see the cost increasing everywhere—it is a mark of civilization. 46. What do you think of the proposal to amalgamate a number of the small schools? —I think it is very good if it can be effected. It is a thing I have tried to effect here. I have seldom recommended the establishment of a small school if it was at all possible to get the children conveyed to a larger existing school. But the great difficulty is in getting the children conveyed, because the settlers are so well off that they will not undertake the conveyance of the pupils at the rate offered. . Usually the man who is willing to undertake the work has not the capital to buy the necessary outfit. 47. Do you think there are places in Otago where it could be carried out?—l know places where it would be well if it were carried out, but owing to this difficulty it cannot be done. 48. Mr. Kirk.] In regard to this question of the Grade 3 and Grade 4 teacher, your Board is simply following the plan which is followed by every Department. Take the Police Department, for instance: If a police district grows in size a sergeant replaces a constable; or in the Railway Department, if a station grows in size a Stationmaster succeeds the porter in charge?— That is the principle. . 49. A young teacher might be sent to a Grade 3 school, and within twelve months that school might jump to Grade 4, and you believe in such a case it is in the best interests of education that a man should be put in charge?— Yes. 50. Is it not a fact that the lady teacher is not reduced in grade, that she is transferred to a third-grade school?—lf a third-grade school is available our Board will transfer her, but if it is not available she might suffer. The principle of the Board is that she should not suffer. It is a question of sex in this particular case. 51. In regard to the suggestion that there is cramming in the schools, I would like to know 7 your definition of cramming ? —I think cramming is memorizing a lot of useless information — working the memory rather than the perceptive powers. 52. Does that go on to any extent in the schools?— Teachers have not time for anything of the kind. 53. You say there is no cramming in the schools? —No; there is memory work, of course, as I think there should be. I think there should be more memory work in the lower standards. 54. It has been suggested to us also that the children are overexamined : what have you to say about that?—l do not think so. It just depends on how the three examinations are carried out. It is well that a headmaster should come into personal contact with the pupils and their work as frequently as possible, and these are the formal occasions on which he does. It is very good, too, I think, that a child should have to meet formal occasions in school life. It is one of his preparations for life. Unless the headmaster knows exactly the attainments of the individual pupils he can only form a rough estimate of the effect of the general teaching of his staff. 55. Mr. Pinder, speaking as the representative of the Teachers' Institute, told us that a teacher had to spend three months of the year in examinations? —ff he says so I believe it is true. 56. Is it right that a teacher's time should be taken up for three months in examinations?— I should think three months is too much, and if it is found to be absolutely necessary to provide that time I should say, have two examinations rather than three. I am surprised to hear it is taking that time. Of course, the examination is a very important part of teaching. 57. Are the teachers satisfied with the classification scheme that exists in Otago?—l know of no general discontent. Ido not think there is dissatisfaction. 58. So far as you know, the scheme is working well?—I have no indication but that they are satisfied with our efforts to carry it out.
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59. Mr. Wells.] Do you mean that the teachers here are classified? —I spoke of the Government classification. Then we classify them relatively to the positions they are seeking, and that is -what I regard as the excellence of our system. We do not classify them absolutely. 60. Have you any classification list of teachers drawn up in which all your teachers appear?' —Yes; that is a private affair to send to the Department. 61. Do you ever take marks off under that system? —Yes. 62. And does that appear in the Government Gazette? —No; but we have the information for our own guidance. 63. You spoke of 'the need for the inspection of private schools : do you think it is sufficient to give Inspectors the right to inspect without the right to test? —No; you require to test. I am quite satisfied on that point. 64. Have the teachers for the most part throughout this district houses attached to tnt schools? —I should say yes, the large proportion have. 65. Are the houses always equal in value to the house-allowance attached to the school? —I really have no knowledge of the rental value of houses. 66. Are you in favour of the abolition of scholarships in towns? —No. 67. Would you be in favour of restricting the scholarship to an allowance sufficient to cover the cost of books in the case of town pupils?— Yes. 68. In that case would you increase the amount for boarding-allowances for country children to bring in a larger number? —Yes. 69. It has been suggested to us that the smarter boys do not get fair consideration in the public schpols, that they are kept back in order to mark time with the duffers : do you think there is anything in that?—l would not go as far as that. I should say that I think a child much above the average might often be promoted quicker, instead of waiting for a year. That is particularly the case in our large city schools. A recommendation I have been making to the teachers for some years is to teach the large classes in two sections. 70. In Auckland we had the suggestion made that, in order to get over the difficulty and do justice to all, it would be advisable to group the Fourth, Fifth, and Sixth Standards of the city schools into three schools, and have a large number of subdivisions in each class, and allow a bright boy to go on as quickly as he could, and give a duller boy ample time?—lt seems an ideal scheme, but I can see some practical difficulties in the way. In Dunedin, for instance, perhaps the Third Standard would be located at this end of the city, and a child attending from the other end would have to travel some distance. And, again, the younger children are often taken to school by the elder ones. I think there would be public sentiment against it. 71. That is the chief difficulty, to your mind?— Yes. 72. Referring partly to the lady teacher who was removed from a Grade 4 school: supposing a young man fresh from a training college was appointed to a small school, and for any reason it suddenly develops at a very rapid rate, would you be in favour of removing him in order to place an older and more deserving teacher in the position ?—I should be in favour of that. I think that would be quite fair. 73. The system you have outlined as in operation here in connection with the appointment of teachers was in operation in Auckland —it was the custom to send four and as many as six names to the Committees. Do you know that that system has been done away with, and a grading scheme introduced? —Yes. 74. Do you know that has given immense satisfaction to the teaching profession?—l do not know that. 75. Do you know that it has been indorsed by every branch of the Teachers' Institute?— I do not know. I was up in Auckland recently, and while I was there I read a speech delivered by the Chairman of the Board in which he referred to all the virtues of this scheme. The next day I saw a letter from a Committeeman, who expressed very great dissatisfaction with it, and since I have returned I have heard that this dissatisfaction has called into existence a Schools Committees' Association, so it would seem as_though local interest is not satisfied. I place great weight on that local feeling. 76. You are quite satisfied that many of the education districts are too small? —I think so. 77. And you would recommend the amalgamation of the smaller districts, as conducive to the best interests of education? —I think so. 78. I think you said the object of a colonial scheme was to obtain quicker promotion?—Or certainty of promotion. 79. Would you not rather say it was to obtain reward for merit? —I will say it is for that purpose if you like. 80. Given larger districts, with grading schemes in each, and annual or biennial conferences of Inspectors, do you not think it would be possible to evolve a grading of teachers for the Dominion so as to allow of transfer from one district to another ?—lt might be. I have not given great consideration to it, I think it would be an advantage if such a thing could be effected. 81. Do you know that at present, with the smaller education districts, there is a lack of opportunity and a lack of prizes for the teachers in them? —Decidedly. 82. And that teachers are often anxious to get into the larger districts, but find it difficult to do so now, owing to the fact that there is no standard of comparison ?—I have heard it said that Otago is a close corporation, but that is contrary to fact. Anybody may apply for a position in this education district, and we have instructions to treat every application on its merits. 83. Mr. Hogben.] With reference to the marks forwarded to the Department by the Inspectors, do you remember any discussion at the conference of Inspectors with regard to this matter? —■ We certainly did discuss it, but I forget the particulars about it.
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84. Do you remember that some difference was found in the marks assigned by Inspectors in different districts, especially mark 10? —Yes. 85. Do you remember that it was on such ascertained difference of estimate that it was generally agreed that the Department should not lower the marks?—l do not remember that. . - 86. In regard to the suggestion to concentrate the upper standards in the town schools of the large cities into two or three central schools, have you thought about the disadvantage that would result from the destruction of the corporate life of the schools? —Yes, that is one of my objections to it. 87. Mr. Thomson.] I suppose you have sometimes heard an uncertificated teacher spoken of as though he were totally unsuited for the teaching profession?— Yes. 88. I suppose in your experience in Otago uncertificated men have done very creditable work ? —Some of them. 89. Do you think the uncertificated backblocks teacher should be permitted to take the D examination in more sections than two ? —I think it would be a good thing. 90. You recommend that? —Yes. I should allow him to take it even in single subjects. 91. Do you think that would help to solve the difficulty of the uncertificated teacher?—To a very great extent. 92. Mr. Pirani.] Have you ever done anything under a system of transfer to reduce a male teacher in position in the service? —Yes. 93. Have you had many of these instances? —No. I can only remember one case. 94. Have you ever used the system of transfer for the purpose of promoting teachers?—l cannot remember an instance. * 95. Do you not think it would be a fair thing, instead of advertising all your positions as open to anybody who applies, that specially qualified teachers in the eyes of the Inspectors should be promoted by a system of transfer? —That is going to take away the legitimate privilege of the Committee, and that is what I attach such importance to. 96. You do not believe in the use of the transfer system except to reduce a teacher? —I do not say that. I think it is more important that we should maintain local interest and the legitimate privileges of the Committees. That system might be to the benefit of the teacher. 97. What do you refer to as local interest? What is the manifestation of local interest?— In the first place, by the way they put their hands in their pockets; next, by the way they read up everything in connection with schools, and also the interest they have in seeing to the welfare of their children. 98. Do you know how much has been raised in this district in the last two years by School Committeemen putting their hands in their pockets I —l do not know, but there must have been a good many thousands of pounds since I have been here. 99. Would you be surprised to know there has been very little raised in the last two years? ---Perhaps they have all they want. They always give when we want it. 100. The Chairman.] Do you not think that, in the case of a highly qualified teacher who is hit by falling attendance, the Inspector's influence with a Committee would induce them to accept such a teacher ? —lt has been done. 101. Is it not a fact that "in this district no woman need apply?—No, because it is not true. 102. What is the educational qualification of the lady teacher who has been mentioned—is she a B.A. of the New Zealand University?— Yes. 103. Has she not taught in every school in Otago in which she has been placed with credit to herself and satisfaction to the Inspectors?-—She has. 104. Did she succeed in teaching the school in.which she was last placed before it rose to the third grade to your satisfaction as Inspector?— She did. 105. As soon as the school touched thirty-six, was she not given the choice of the school at Otakau ?—Yes. 106. Is it not one of the most remote districts a woman could be sent to, having regard to the ordinary conveniences of civilized life —a Maori settlement at Otago Heads?—lt is a country place on the harbour. There are disadvantages in connection with it, as there are in connection with every other place. It was the best position the Board had available. 107. What I want to know is, how comes it that what cannot be done by the Otago Board can be done by the adjoining Board in Southland? —The policy of the Southland Board is different from that of ours. 108. Where does the national system of education come in? —I suppose it is local, or our Board would not have done it. 109. Is that not one of fhe matters which a Council of Education would be likely to correct? —It would produce uniformity of administration, and, generally speaking, I should think it would have good results. 110. Mr. Davidson.] In referring to the colonial scheme of promotions in Victoria, were you referring to the one most recently 7 brought info operation?— Yes, and the other one too. 111. The one you referred to more particularly was that where the Board, by classification, raised the teachers annually. Do you know that salaries are classified now and not schools?— Yes 112. Is it not a fact that since these recent regulations have been brought into operation the teachers are much more satisfied than formerly?—l think some of their grievances are removed, at any rate. 113. Mr. Kirk.} It has been suggested that the lady we were speaking of received less salary in the position to which she was transferred than she got in Grade 3 ?—Of course, I have nothing to do with salaries. 114. Mr. Davidson.} Had this lady remained in her position, would she not have had a considerable increase in salary? Would she not have received £180, rising by annual increases of £5 to £210?— Yes.
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Samuel Morgan Park further examined. (No. 54.) 1. The Chairman'] Touching this confusion of ideas as to the efforts of School Committees to raise funds for local purposes, what amount has been raised in this district during the past two years on which the Board grants a subsidy?—l understood the question was as to the amount raised locally by the School Committees. During 1911 the amount raised in this district for this purpose was £3,400. That, of course, does not go through the Board's funds at all, and is not shown in the education papers. 2. But it is disclosed in the balance-sheet? —Yes, and from that I have just taken out the amount, thinking the Commission might require that information. 3. Mr. Pirani.] f notice in your annual report the receipts for school buildings include contributions, £105 7s. lid. How can you say, therefore, that no local contributions are included in your balance-sheet? Then, again, in your annual report you say £80 ss. 9d. was received for school libraries : how can you say no local contributions are included in y 7 our annual report and balance-sheet? —I except those two items. They are very small. I meant to say the total amount raised by School Committees was £3,400. The amount of that which goes through the Board's funds is very small, and, so far as subsidies on buildings are concerned, the Board does not require that the amount raised locally shall pass through the Board's fund. It accepts the Committee's statement that the amount it has raised for this purpose is such-and-such a figure. The amount having been certified to, the Board pays its part of the subsidy. 4. Mr. Wells.] What rate of subsidy- does the Board pay?—lt pays at the rate of £1 for £1. Angus Marshall further examined. (No. 55.) 1. The Chairman.] I have thought it necessary to recall Mr. Marshall to explain with reference to the alleged overlapping in the District High School, the Boys' High School, and the Technical School, of which he is Director. He will possibly explain, on the commercial side, at all events, what the points of difference are, if any. We shall be glad to hear what you have to say, Mr. Marshall? —In the Technical School, although some of the work may be on the same nature as in the High School, the basis is somewhat different. In the High School a much broader foundation is taken up. General principles are instilled; while in the Technical School we take, as it were, the narrower road, and proceed more directly towards the object in view. For instance, we may sa} 7 that in the work in English and mathematics we have our minds solely upon the goal or the application of the work in the ordinary business of life. Commercial education has been mentioned. Well, with our commercial work' we interweave our English and our commercial arithmetic. We teach English as a part of our shorthand, and part of our typewriting, and part of our general correspondence. In the High School they would give a much more efficient instruction in English than we do, but the foundation would be broader. They would go in more for general principles. We, as it were, take the necessary English and the necessary arithmetic that will make an efficient office stenographer or assistant. Many pupils come to us who do not wish to undergo the more arduous training of the high school. Many, again, will not come to us because they require a less arduous training; and they go to private institutions, where they are tied down to shorthand and typewriting. We occupy a kind of middle position in that way. The point is that the work we do is special work, and if asked whether the High School could undertake it I should say it could provided they had the special staff, special rooms, and the special appliances. There is no guarantee, however, that they could do the work either more efficiently or more cheaply. Assuming they could do it, there would be several disadvantages to contend with. For instance, we require something like forty rooms for our evening classes. Would the High School provide those rooms for the evening classes? I think the answer would be a prompt and emphatic "No." Then, are these rooms and these special teachers to be kept idle just because, owing to some sentiment or other, we are regarded as duplicating or overlapping in some way. Then, if you have teachers and accommodation, why not utilize them in the day time. I do not wish to labour the point, but there is just one other point I would mention. Although I am maintaining that it is impracticable, costly, and impolitic to combine high school and technical school work in a city like Dunedin, where you have such a number to cater for that you must have separate rooms, and so on, it is just the reverse when you come to the smaller centres such as Gore or Gisborne. In those centres you have not a sufficient number of pupils to provide work for, say, one man to do science all day and keep his laboratory employed. If in those places you kept high-school work and technical work separate you could not provide an efficient instructor for one class of work only. Then it would be an advantage to combine the two; but in the larger centres you must have separate institutions, and it is not overlapping, because it is not the same class of work. 2. Mr. Davidson? In the smaller districts, I understand, then, that in the high schools you would have three separate courses, any one of which a boy might take—say, the classical or English course, the commercial course, and the vocation course?— Yes, I should provide for three courses, but I should not use the word " separate," because you can combine some of them. I should, however, separate those which could not be combined efficiently. 3. Mr. Kirk.] Do you happen to know that, where technical and secondary subjects are taught in the same school, the technical subjects are taught at the expense of such subjects as English, arithmetic, and, generally speaking, the three Rs?—l think that is so. 4. Do you know that in the secondar} 7 schools where technical subjects are taken the students who sit for such examinations as the Matriculation, the Junior University Scholarships, and so on, do not come out well?— Yes, and it is because of this very thing—that they do not provide separate courses. They provide a conglomeration. Ido not think the pupils taking the different subjects are properly classified, and I think a scheme of classification could very easily be drawn up.
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5. Mr. Hogben.] You said, I think, that you would never establish a separate technical school in a district which is only able to keep a district high school: do you mean a day technical school? -^Yes. 6. Would you use as much as possible the district high school building for evening work for -either technical or other classes?— Yes, there is no need to duplicate the rooms and the appliances In any district. 7. Mr. Pirani.] If in a small town there is a district high school which has no special appliances for teaching science or anything of that sort, but there is a well equipped technical school in that same town with provision for all courses — scholastic, commercial, machineryconstruction, agriculture, and so on —which are being conducted in that technical school, which would you say should be abolished—your technical or your secondary department of tjie district high school, there being an equal number in attendance at each school? —Then I should say the district high school should be combined with the technical school. George Cashmore Israel examined on oath. (No. 56.) 1. The Chairman.] You are a member of the Otago Education Board, and I understand you have for a good many years taken an active interest in the education work of the primary schools in Otago?—That is so. 2. Have you a statement to make?— Yes. As the ground seems to have been fairly well covered by previous witnesses I will confine myself to a very short statement. Speaking with the diffidence of a layman who claims a more than average interest in the cause of education, I venture a few personal opinions for what they are worth: (1.) It has long been impressed upon me that numbers of small schools might, with advantage to all concerned, be closed, and arrangements made for teaching the children living within a radius of, say, ten miles at a well equipped and more efficiently taught central school. Undoubtedly the general education in such a district would gain in efficiency from the efforts of higher-grade teachers, who, under the improved circumstances, might more readily be secured, and the general improvement would, I imagine, be reflected in the homes and surroundings of the pupils. Such a system of centralization or grouping has been successfully- tried elsewhere —notably- in New South Wales, where children are conveyed to central schools by both wagon and motor launch. It must, however, in Otago, at any rate, be a condition precedent that suitable roads should exist, and that the Board of Education should have those reasonable means placed at its command for the comfortable conveyance of the children to school. (2.) I think the Board of Education should have its position strengthened with regard to the supervision of private primary schools, or of schools which admit children of primary school age, other than those under its control. It is believed that such supervision would be welcomed by the authorities of private schools. Indeed, inspection by the Board's officers is already sought by the Roman Catholic schools here. No efficient private school of such a class — and there must be a number here—need fear the tests already applied by the education authorities to their own State schools. (3.) In any measure for the reform of the administrtion of education in the Dominion, it would, in ny opinion, be unwise and impolitic to weaken the privileges and responsibilities of School Committees, which are admittedly a potent factor in our scheme of administration. One has only to compare like conditions in the States of the Commonwealth with that which obtains in the Dominion to realize the fact of the great value of our School Committees in the educational life of the community. The large sums of monej 7 raised annually and the persistent of these bodies of intelligent and enthusiastic workers give ample evidence of their unquestioned value to the State. 3. Mr. Wells.] You are of opinion that something more might be done in the way of centralizing the country schools in this district? —I do not know that anything has been done. The difficulties have been too great. Visits to the different districts have somewhat cooled the ardour of those who were anxious to see such a consummation. I myself have pressed this matter once or twice, but when I got into the Catlin's district, for example, and saw the conditions which prevailed there, especially as regards the state of the roads, it somewhat cooled my anxiety to see the schools grouped. So that I think we must wait until roads are provided for the children. I think, however, there are many places where grouping might be carried out with advantage. 4. Do you find there is opposition 7 in the country districts to any suggestion to centralize? —We have never brought it forward forcibly enough yet to encounter opposition, but from points which have been brought before the Board from time to time I should say opposition would be encountered under the most favourable circumstances. 5. Still, you recognize that centralization would make for efficiency and economy?— Yes; and more than that, it would make for morality and everything else. I think there would be a wider outlook. I have been somewhat staggered to see the conditions in those small country schools that are isolated, and where the children are under improper parental control. It would, I consider, be an advantage for those children to get their training in a large school, even on the side of morality, where there would be a better class of teacher and better supervision. And the association with perhaps a better class of children than themselves would, I think, tend to improve those children, and reflect again upon the homes of some of the parents. 6. Have you anything to say as to the amount of the grant allowed for the conveyance of children? —We have always tried to do our best with the sixpence allowance, but ft has not been sufficient. In urgent cases we have received a little more consideration from the Department, but even that does not cover.the ground. My opinion is that something more should be done by responsible parents in the district towards that end. I think where people go to live in isolated districts, and find there is a difficulty in getting their children to school, they should be prepared to make a little self-sacrifice by coming to an arrangement to take the children in
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rotation in their drays even. They might contribute their share to the education of their children in that way. It is already- done in one or two places I understand, but the idea ought to be extended. 7. Have you anything to say as to the size of the education districts. As you are aware, they vary greatly in size, though the cost of administration varies inversely in proportion to the size?—lt does strike me as an absurdity that one or two of the education districts should have separate administration of the education of a number of children little larger than some of the Christchurch schools. 8. You have not found the Otago District in any way unwieldly as regards administration?—No, it is easily worked, and we keep in pretty close touch with all our schools. 9. You are able to keep a more efficient staff of Inspectors in a large district than in a small one?— Yes. 10. There is more for the teachers to look forward to in a large district, and that would have a good effect on education generally?— Yes. 11. Do you think it is possible for the Education Board to take charge of primary, secondary, and technical education in this district ? —I used to think so, but having now a more intimate knowledge of the secondary and technical school-work, and its administration, I somewhat hesitate to say it would, unless the central body could be assisted. 12. I am presuming there would be efficient local Committees?—lf you could get efficient Committees it might be so. My reason for saying that is that since I have been a member of the High School Board and the Technical School Board I have been in association with a number of fine men, well equipped for their particular duties, and I should be sorry to see such men ousted from such positions. 13. Would they be ousted under a system of co-option?—lf they would accept the position of co-optative members it would be all right. 14. Has the Education Board here given any thought to the question of the grading of teachers by the preparation of a promotion list? —It has just been mentioned across the table, but it has not met with much response. 15. You think members of the Board would not care to give up the patronage? —Well, we find the present system so satisfactory that w-e are not looking for a change. 16. Has the practice of canvassing come under your notice?—l want to know what you mean by canvassing. 17. I mean the interviewing by teachers of members of the Board with a view to furthering their chances of having their names sent in for particular positions?—l am always glad to see and talk with teachers for my own personal reasons, and, although the teachers may- have something in view when they call, our relations are satisfactory, and I have taken no exception to it. Ido not think it influences members of the Board at all unduly. We depend largely upon our Inspectors' reports. 18. Do you invariably take your Inspectors' recommendations? —Almost, I would not say quite. 19. With regard to the continuation classes, do you think public opinion would sanction the attendance at continuation classes being made compulsory? —I think it would. There is such an amount of interest taken in education here that I think the public would support any movement in that direction. 20. Have you given any thought to the question of the levying of rates locally for the maintenance of school buildings, providing of playgrounds, and extension of equipment, subsidized by the Government? —Yes; but I should not like to say as to wdiat effect it would have. We have never found any difficulty in raising money here, and such a system might possibly tend to curb the generosity of the people, and might therefore do more harm than good. 21. I suppose there are a number of residents who never do give? —Yes, but generally the parents are generous here. Any school movement or entertainment is wonderfully well patronized. 22. Mr. Kirk.] You are a bank-manager, I understand, and as such you would come into contact with boys as they leave school: have you noticed any want in their educative standing?— I think not. I would not like to say they are better than they used to be, but there is no difference so far as I can see. 23. Do you approve of the teaching of typewriting in the secondary schools?— No. The same applies to shorthand and book-keeping. I think the time might better be spent in the teaching of more necessary subjects. 24. Mr. Poland.] When you spoke of improving the moral tone of schools, did you mean to imply that the children attending the small schools are less moral than those attending the larger schools ? —We have had indications to that effect. The discipline of the larger schools would be better. There is a good deal of uncertainty about the teachers we get in the country districts. 25. Have you had any experience of the children in the very small country- schools? —Yes, I have visited them occasionally, and we get information from the Inspectors at the Board's table. 26. Do you think the conveyance of children in vans daily to and from school to a central school would lead to improvement?—l think so. 27. Would you be in favour of making attendance of free-place pupils at a secondary school compulsory for two years? —Yes. 28. Mr. Thomson.} Do you consider there are any directions in which money is wasted at all in connection with the administration of education in this district?— Speaking generally, I think we are as economical as it is possible to be. I think, however, the money spent upon the free school-books is practically wasted. Ido not think they are at all necessary. 29. Mr. Davidson.] Is the teaching profession as popular as the other departments of the public service? —I think so.
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30. How, then, do you account for the vastly increased number of uncertificated teachers? —Well, we understand from the Inspectors that the term "uncertificated teachers" is a misnomer, in a sense. Numbers of them have missed their examination in some subject, such as music or something of that kind, and therefore remain uncertificated. Otherwise they are able and competent teachers. '. "31. We were told in evidence to-day that on the on which appointments are to be made teachers are to be found waiting at the street-corners ready to button-hole members, and rush about canvassing in order to get ahead of their fellows, and then they start with a tremendous handicap over their fellows ? —I do not know whether it is more an insult to the Board or to the teachers to suggest such a thing. It is absolutely untrue and absurd. 32. What is the practice of the Board in sending on names for vacancies?— The Inspectors go through the applications, and select four, and the full Board as a selection committee consider the applications and the selection, and in ninety-nine cases out of a hundred the choice of the Inspectors is accepted. Sometimes it happens that there are special requirements for a special district, which the Inspectors have not recognized and it is open to any member of the Board to call attention to the special requirements. It is very occasionally that such a position arises. It is the almost invariable rule that we accept the recommendations of the Inspectors. 33. Do you not think it would be wise, as in Auckland and Wanganui, to make the selection to be sent on to the Committee, seeing that in ninety-nine eases out of a. hundred you adopt the recommendation of the Inspectors?—l would not like, even for the sake of the one out of the hundred, to forego my opportunity. I think the members of the Board have a certain amount of responsibility, and the final responsibility should be with the Board. 34. Can you tell me how many instances there have been in the last twelve months in which only one name has been sent on to a Committee? —I cannot tell you. It has certainly not occurred in the case of important schools. It has only occurred in the case of outside schools. 35. Would you say that in twenty cases in the last year only one name has been sent on? — Yes, I think so —an average of one or two a month. 36. Was that generally in unimportant out-of-the-way places, where tew applicants were forthcoming I —Yes. 37. Mr. Hogben.] How would you make the attendance compulsory for twc years -to free pupils?—By doing much in the same way as w-e adopt in the technical school, for what it is worth, by way of a bond. It is a sort of moral obligation, but Ido not know that we could enforce it in law. 38. Would you have the Act altered so as to make it possible to enforce such a bond? —Yes, I would. 39. Supposing a parent got an offer of employment for his boy—a parent of limited means —-do you think it would be fair to require of that poor parent that he should repay the amount of the bond, which I suppose would be the whole or part of the fees?—ln all circumstances there is consideration for poor people. That position could be met, 40. Are not the majority of the cases of that description ? —I think too many go into the high school to get the cachet of the high school, which is considered by many a better recommendation than coming from the primary school. 41. Supposing a boy left to go into employment, and attended an evening technical school after he was employed, would } 7 ou enforce the bond in a case like that?—No; an arrangement could be made by transfer. 42. Mr. Davidson.] In districts too small for both a high school and a technical school, w 7 ould you agree to the high school having three courses —classical, commercial, and vocational —so that boys might make a choice, as is done in America ?—That is a question for experts. 43. Mr. Pirani.] Would you call Lawrence District High School a minor appointment?— No. 44. Are you not aware that in two instances at least only one name was sent on to the Committee of that school for a vacancy?— Yes, but it was not with my will. 45. Did you receive any protest from, the Committee about it? —Yes, 1 think so. 46. Mr. Poland.] Do you believe in the selection committee retaining their present privilege with regard to the appointment of teachers? —I do. 1 was associated with one Committee in Dunedin —the Union Street School —for twenty years, and in that time we raised £1,500 in voluntary contributions. Abraham Morris Barnett examined on oath. (No. 57.) 1. The Chairman.] What is your position?—l am headmaster of the Kakauui School, and have been teaching under the Otago Education Board for thirty-two years. Contrary to the generally accepted opinion, I hold that a knowledge of too much reading-matter is required from the scholars of the primary schools; that the School Journal for Standards V and VI, consisting as it does of over thirty pages each month of issue, would require greater attention on the part of the teacher and scholars than does the ordinary reading-book, the place of which should not be taken by the Journal. That so much reading-matter—the ordinary reading-book, the Journal, the history, and Geographical Reader—prevents the proper study of any, and has a tendency to confuse the children, and leave on their minds quite a fragmentary knowledge of any subject. That it is hurtful to the physical growth of the weaker children. Your Commission has the evidence principally of strong men —men who, because their bodies have given them strength to read and study much, cannot conceive of the feelings of the weak. Heavy reading to the weak, not necessary in intellect, though having a tendency to epilepsy, hysteria, &c, so confuses their pow-ers of grasping what they are set to learn, that they may either refuse to work — in olden days take to truant-playing —and so save their bodies, or break down under the strain.
A. M. BARNETT.]
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I am quite willing to submit these assertions as facts to the opinion of such a critic as Dr. Truby King, whose knowledge of mental suffering is second to none in the Dominion. As a relief to mental study all, when desiring rest, hasten to lighter reading than that wdiich has been compulsory. Hence you find children taking to the " penny dreadful," those miserable scribes that glorify the wrongdoers and make as victims to his success in wickedness the guardians of law and order —make a hero of the boy that can defy the schoolmaster, &c. Nature-study and overmuch reading make for a contradiction : — Where are your books? that light bequeathed. To beings else forlorn and blind. Up I up I and drink the spirit breathed From dead men to their kind. The eye it cannot choose but see; We cannot bid the ear be still; Our bodies feel whate'er they be, Against or with our will. That to have fluent reading there must be a complete visual memory of what it sees at a glance. A good sight-reader is one who can see every letter in each word, and all the words of a line, and when coining to end of a line several of the words of the next line. This ability should be acquired in the infant room by steady study of the build of the word, or even by the upposed out-of-date alphabetic method. Tense expressions can only come by quick reflective and imaginative powers. Seeing something of life will give these quicker than much reading-matter. In the Third and B'ourth Standards I would rely upon oral work, with good pictures and maps for the teaching of history and geography. Such a nation as the Maoris would hand down by oral tradition its history. Such stands during the infancy of nations, and in such a manner would I teach the infants of a mature nation. To do this the teacher must have a thorough knowledge of his subject, and at the same time must be himself on a level with his pupils. In printed matter very often a language is used almost foreign to that used by the pupils. In oral teaching the instructor —I use the word for history- in these classes—would or ought to use language readily followed by his listeners, a language at once vivid and simple, enthusiastic, and full of fire according to the particular branch of the subject he has in hand, and the eyes of the pupils will follow the light given by his eyes and facial glow. The primary idea of geography is locality. In no sense should the beginner learn a list of names of places; but before he can properly learn of places he should be able to locate each in the picture he has of the map. With a map before a pupil such pupil should be able to almost blindfold point out where a place is. Say a person takes up a newspaper and reads the cablegrams; to enjoy his reading such a one should be able to locate, without continual reference to encyclopaedia or the index of an atlas, each place of which he reads. Oral teaching prevents this learning by rote, and enables the teacher, who, of course, must know his subject, to paint on the imagination of his pupils something of each town and country. Such pictures will assist him in such work. I want no books for such work, though good books of travel to be read at the pupils' leisure I would encourage. I am in favour of a limited amount of physical and mathematical geography. I would hold that the syllabus should just say, " Teach geography," giving the teacher full scope to choose his own methods. The Inspectors ought to be able to say if there be any educational value in the method chosen. An experience of twenty years in the school garden tells me that much may be done for the pupils and for the farmer by nature-study and technical education. Oh, for a strong body to do all I have in my mind ! The formation of soils, their nature obtained by mechanical analyses, and what would enrich them or make them more workable might be taught. Among an Education Board's teachers of agriculture should be a biologist; the pests and plagues of the garden cannot too early- be observed. I have known the ladybird condemned as eating the turnip-leaves, that the grub and not the moth spread the plague in potatoes. Such errors have been corrected by my pupils by experiment and observation. Besides, the work of the hands is such a relief to mental prostration. Medical inspections :No matter how thorough is the teaching of hygiene it is worthless without practice. What good are the laws of dairying if the farmer be not compelled to cleanse his separator. And the inspection of teeth is no good if the parent or the State prevent not the running pus from entering the stomach —during the past five-and-tw'enty years 1 have extracted teeth for my pupils and others — or if the pupil who cannot see the words on the blackboard be not compelled to wear glasses. One great need in our schools is the lavatory. One has to order his pupils to wash by the aid of clay and the tap. He must run about till that portion of his body wetted dries. The foregoing are the results obtained by an experience of thirty years in country- schools, and I would, with your permission, say a word on encouraging men to enter upon such work. Women, in the opinion of Inspectors, may do as good work as a man, but a single woman who does not look forward to the keeping of a husband cannot do the work of a married man. I have had perhaps the misfortune to be always located some distance—once thirty-seven miles—from the residence of a doctor, therefore I here speak, as I have done in other cases, from practical experience: it has therefore happened that both my wife and myself have had to do many things in the district in which we worked that no single woman could have done. Is it, then, too much to ask that men who have such responsibilities should be better paid than single women, and should have the preference when promotion is in hand. To encourage men to enter upon such work, the State should consider their wives. Surely the widows of such men deserve a pension equal to that of the old age. Death to the ordinary man has no fear, but the feeling of no provision for his loved ones urges him to fight for justice. One may be moved by acts of chivalry to fight for the single woman, but our mothers are the foundations of our nations. Destroy the foundation-stone by neglect, and the whole will fall to the ground. Defective children : The State is wisely doing something for
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the boys among "God's innocents." For years, with the aid of literature supplied me by the late Robert Burns, F.R.C.S.E., I fought for the training of these children. The work of the State so far is good, but only the half is being done. Defective girls require special care and treatment. I have never taught in any district without finding one or more. And where such children, among the female sex, have long and lonely roads to travel before reaching home there is always a chance of boys of low moral tone taking advantage of their innocence. In fact, all girls starting work at the ages of thirteen or fourteen require special treatment. In factories, &c, they should work but six hours a day, and one hour should be given to study* in daylight if they attend technical schools. James Mitchell examined on oath. (No. 58.) I. The Chairman.] You are a member of the Otago Education Board? —Yes, and have been for fourteen years. I reside at Oamaru, and have been largely- concerned in the administration of primary education in North Otago. I am a member of the Waitaki High School Board of Governors, and lam also a member of the Oamaru Technical Board. The first point on which I desire to address the Commission is with regard to the method of the appointment of teachers. The experience I have gained leads me to the conclusion that the system we have 'at present in operation in Otago is as perfect as it is possible to get, always provided that it is used judiciously. The whole thing turns upon the manner in which the Board itself makes its first selection. If the Board acts wisely, and sends forward only names qualified for the position, then it does not matter what the action of the School Committee may be. I have read through the summarized report of the statement of the Chief Inspector at Auckland with reference to the system in vogue in that educational district, and I at once challenge that system as being based upon fundamental error. I do not believe it is possible to, set out by figures the respective qualifications and merits of a large body of teachers. I have a copy of one of the reports upon it. The system that is in operation here enables us to consider not only the qualifications of the teacher, but his personal fitness for a particular position. In the system in operation in Auckland, and also in Wanganui, I believe, that element does not come into consideration at all. In Otago the personal element must come largely into consideration. We have had on occasions applications from teachers which we could not conscientiously send to districts, although the applicants had all the necessary qualifications. We have, by using the power we possess under the present, system, succeeded in rehabilitating not only the schools but in re-establishing the teachers in their profession. That could not be done under an automatic system of promotion. Under the system we pursue, all the peculiar circumstances of a district, as well as the personal qualifications of a teacher are taken into account. We send forward names in accordance with the spirit of the Act, but we send forward the name of no candidate we are not prepared with confidence to appoint, f find that Mr. Israel very greatly underestimated the number of instances in which only one name was sent forward to a Committee. In twelve months fifty-five single names were sent forward, and in each of those instances the number of applicants ranged from two to sixteen. There were fourteen instances in Grade 2 schools, two in Grade 3, seventeen in Grade 4, and seven in Grade 5, and three in Grade 6. There were three instances in secondary assistantships in district high schools, and one for a mistress in a district high school. In a. large number of these instances there was only one applicant who was really possessed of the necessary qualification. Many of the applicants were uncertificated altogether. In all the other cases the teacher whose name alone was sent on had not only outstanding claims by length or service or special qualifications, but was head and shoulders above the rest. Another thing that the Otago Education Board aims at is to keep the active co-operation of the School Committees. It will be found from the records that in Otago the average attendance is easily ahead of that for any other district in the Dominion, and also it will be found that in Otago a vastly greater amount of money has been provided locally- for works in connection with the schools than is the case anywhere else in New Zealand. That, we claim, is a direct result of maintaining the active co-operation of the School Committees. It does not matter what sort of system of promotion or appointment is adopted, you will never have satisfaction in the profession so longas the salaries are based upon an unstable foundation. There must be grading of teachers, and every teacher must have a fixed salary with a fixed increment. The position is worse now- than before in this regard, because w-e have-'the Superannuation Fund, under which superannuation is based upon the salary- for the last three years of service. It may happen that that three years is not the best three years of salary- for the teacher, owing to the teacher having to leave a school because of the grade of the school having been changed. Satisfaction never will be obtained in the teaching profession until every teacher is graded and every teacher has a personal salary, and not a salary dependent upon the position he occupies in any school. Another question I desire to speak on is the proposal to place the secondary, primary, and technical education under the control of the Board for the district. I have had fourteen years' experience on the Otago Education Board, and I have had a number of years' experience on High School Boards and Technical School Boards, and 1 say it would be a mistake. It would not effect any economy, and for this reason : These institutions would be controlled by men not resident in the district and the expense of administration from travelling-expenses to attend meetings alone would be very great, whilst there is also this fear : that if primary and secondary education were put under one Board one or other class of schools would be sacrificed. I say you have got the Greatest security of wise administration of the three separate branches of education by having them under three separate Boards, where the interests are not brought into conflict. Place the Waitaki Boys' High School under a Board sitting in Dunedin, and I venture to say that the interests of that school would be subordinated to the interests of the school close to the meeting-place of the Board. Then, in regard to high schools, it is not simply a matter of the schools themselves.
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J. MITCHELL.]
All the Boards have endowments, and the majority of these endowments are near the school itself. The members of the Boards have personal knowledge of these endowments, and they ■have opportunities of seeing whether or not the tenants occupying them are using them well. They have opportunities of knowing the value of all these endowments, and seeing that the highest reasonable rental is obtained from them. They have opportunities of managing these endowments that could not be enjoyed by a Board sitting in Dunedin composed of members drawn from all over the educational district. The same applies largely to the technical school. I sayfearlessly that had the Dunedin Technical School been under the control of the Education Board it would never have obtained the degree of efficiency it has done under a local committee composed largely of men having a personal knowledge of a large part of the work to be done by that technical "school. The present position of the Dunedin Technical School is due largely to the local knowledge and the local interest. Apart from these considerations, however, you are not going to effect economy by concentrating management under one Board. Under present conditions there are no travelling-expenses to be paid to members of the Technical Board, as they all live in the district, but once put it under the Education Board you will have several members on the Committee or board of management who have to come from long distances, and will receive 15s. per day travelling-expenses. Another thing is that having the three branches separated as at present the respective bodies are composed of men who are -interested in that one branch. To get a body of men familiar with the wdiole of the necessities of the three separate branches of education would be a difficult matter. It would take a considerable time to educate a man to the requirements of a high school who had had no former association with such a school, but who might have a very familiar knowledge of the necessities of primary education. The position would be aggravated when technical schools have to be dealt with. 2. Mr. Wells.] Is it the experience of the Otago Board that the remuneration offered to the teaching profession is sufficient? —No. In almost every branch of the public service also it is possible for an officer to attain to a salary 60 to 100 per cent, higher than that open to a teacher. 3. Mr. Kirk.} Do you think it w 7 ise, in view of the time that must necessarily be spent in teaching fundamentals, that such things as shorthand and typewriting should form part of the curriculum in the secondary schools? —Yes. 4. Why?— Any system of education that does not take into consideration the vocation of the pupils is not a success. The high school should not be merely a school for literary attainment. It should not be devoted even in the greater part to entry to the University or the learned professions. Its curriculum should be so formed as to give the very best preparation for advocation whatever. 5. Do you know any boys who have kept up their shorthand after they have left school?— So far as my experience of high schools goes, shorthand has not been taught, 6. In a district where there is a technical school and a secondary school, do you think that both should teach shorthand and typewriting?—l see no objection to it, for the reason that the conditions under which they enter the two schools differ very widely. A boy may be going to a high school for other reasons than getting a knowledge of shorthand and typewriting, and may take it as a branch of his education, omitting languages. 7. The Chairman.] Is it not a greater advantage to a lad going in for a commercial life to have a good knowledge of modern languages—for instance, German —in preference to a mechanical art like shorthand and typewriting?—l know that shorthand counts for a great deal in a commercial establishment and in a lawyer's office. 8. Among boys?— Among boys and girls. 9. Mr. Poland.] In connection with the fifty-five cases in which only one name was forwarded by the Board to School Committees, did the Board receive many protests and complaints from the Committees?— No. The Board has received complaints when only one name has been sent on. Yesterday a statement' was made by one of my colleagues that a strong protest had been received from Lawrence. In two successive appointments the Board found in the list of applicants teachers of outstanding claims, and sent on one name only. The Lawrence Committee wrote concurring in the appointment, but entering a protest, and expressing the hope that the Board was not making it a principle to send on one name only. The Board replied that it was not.'making it a principle, but that in both instances the teachers whose names were sent on alone had outstanding claims. The Committee have been content with that. If the Board is prepared to give the facts, there is no Committee in the country who will not acquiesce. 10. Mr. Davidson.] If the Committee had such confidence in the Board that they would accept one name on the advice of the Board's Inspectors, would that not do away with the canvassing that is carried on? —If they w 7 ere prepared to accept it as a general principle. 11. Do you think it is fair to the country teachers that applicants in and around the city should have the opportunity of canvassing for positions in the city and suburbs when candidates from the country had not that opportunity?—Of course, it is not fair; but how are you going to prevent it? I may say that so far as the Otago Education Board is concerned, although we have not reduced it to a regulation matter, we have adopted the principle of absolutely refusing to send on the name of a teacher who has not done country service for an appointment in the city. 12. A vacancy occurs on the staff of one of the suburban schools, and the Board sends on four names to the Committee : one of the applicants is, we will say, in Roxburgh, and the other three are in the immediate neighbourhood of the city : that applicant from Roxburgh or any other distant place has no opportunity of canvassing members of the Committee. Do you think it is fair that that candidate should be so handicapped?—No; of course, it Is not fair, but how are you going to avoid the position unless you make it a penal offence to canvass? 13. If the Board, on the advice of its Inspectors, were to say that this candidate has the highest claims to the position, and send that one name to the Committee, giving the Committee the right to make any objections it saw fit, would that not be fairer to the whole of the teaching
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service in this district?—lt might, but I look at it from another point of view, which particularly applies to city appointments. You get for a position in the city anything from twentyfive to thirty-five applicants. Almost invariably in that number are several teachers whose claims are just about equal, and it would be a manifest injustice to select only one when four had a fairly equal right to the chance of promotion. - " 14. Do you not admit that the Inspectors and the Board are more capable of judging of the true claims of the several teachers for that position than any Committee? —I do think so. 15. Then, would it not be in the interests of education if the Board insisted on the rights they possess in law to make that selection, and send on that one name to the Committee?—l do not admit that it would be altogether the most satisfactory position. I do not myself admit that it would do the greatest amount of justice in many cases in regard to the teachers themselves, and I think that so long as you have Committees they should be allowed, at any rate, some voice in the matter of the appointment of teachers, alway-s provided that you have more than one applicant who will equally well fill the position, and whose claims are collectively- fairly equal. 16. Do the Committees, as a general rule, accept the applicant whose name is placed first in order of merit by the Board?— Yes. 17. Then, do you not think they would accept the choice of the Inspectors and the Board?— I think they would. 1 find the city School Committees generally take the second or third name on the list. 18. The point I want to make is the injustice done to teachers in out-of-the-w 7 ay places who cannot personally canvass? —So far as the city and town schools are concerned, the selection of the Board for these positions is largely controlled by the length of service of the applicants in a country district. The Board will not give promotion to a teacher who has not done service in the country. 19. You condemn the system of computing salaries upon average attendances?—l do, most emphatically. 20. Can you suggest any other method?— Classification of the teachers, with individual salary. 21. Mr. Hogben.} If the Department were pressed to extend the new staffing under the Act of 1908 further than it it extended at present —namely, further than Grade 6a schools —■ would you see any objection ?—The first objection that presents itself is that we have not at present the teachers at command. My opinion is that the abolition of pupil-teachers and the placing of certificated teachers in their positions is a change that can only be made by a gradual process. We have already all over the Dominion a deficiency of teachers. If you at once brought that part of the Act into full operation throughout the Dominion you would create a large number of appointments in the city and town schools, with the result that you would attract from your country schools the teachers who are already there, and so you would place a greater number of country schools in the hands of uncertificated teachers. You would be strengthening the city and town schools that are already doing good work at the cost of the country schools. I am satisfied it would injure the small country schools. 22. In 1910 there were twenty-eight teachers of Grade 10 salary, and these twenty-eight teachers were headmasters of Grade 10 schools : if the salary was a personal one, would you allow a teacher to hold a Grade 8 school with a Grade 10 salary?— Why not? 23. Then, you would increase the number of Grade 10 salaries?— Not necessarily, because a man might occupy a Grade 10 position and still not be drawing the wdiole salary. My contention is that you should grade all your teachers, and have them go up step by step. A teacher occupying at present a Grade 8 position might at once be promoted to a Grade 10 school, but I would not immediately give him a Grade 10 salary. It should come by a process of annual increments, until he reaches the maximum salary. 24. You might have any number of Grade 10 salaries?— You might ultimately, but it would take a great many years. The greatest dissatisfaction occurs in the lower salaries. 25. You do not think that would in time make a larger number of high salaries than the high positions were worth ? —lt might, but that would largely depend on your grading of teachers in the first instance. 26. The, Chairm,an.] There are three schools in the Town of Oamaru —North, Middle, and South?— Yes. 27. And for some time there has been a falling attendance at the Middle School? —Yes. 28. Would it be possible to accommodate the children attending the Middle School at the North and South Schools?—So far as our standards are concerned, there would be ample accommodation, but you would require additional accommodation for the infants at both schools. 29. If the infants were taken into a kindergarten department and kept there till they were six or seven years of age, would that overcome the difficulty?—lt might, but I doubt it. You are contemplating closing one of the schools, but that school building is not used solely for the purpose of a primary school. It contains the carpentry and cookery rooms for the whole of the Waitaki County. 30. The suggestion has been made that that Middle School should be used as a technical school: do you approve of that suggestion? —I do not know what advantage you are going to get from it, because there is already, I think, a sufficiently well equipped technical school in Oamaru, although it is not exactly as central as the middle school would be. 31. As to the relations between the Department and the Education Board with regard to new buildings and additions to buildings; when an addition to an existing school or a new school is recommended by the Board after inspection and report by members of the Board and by the Inspectors, do you think the Department should accept that as final?— Yes. I have always held the view that if is a serious reflection upon the Boards that an application for a grant for a new school made by the residents and supported by the Inspectors, and I may say in every case sup-
J. MITCHELL.]
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ported by members of the Board after visiting the site, should, before being granted, be submitted to a Crown Lands Ranger or any other officer. 32. The Education Board has appointed you a member of the Oamaru Technical School Board and of the Board of Governors of the Waitaki High School ? —Yes. 33. Assuming that you retain these positions, and co-opted with men who took as much i-nterest as yourself in technical and secondary education, do you not think you would have the benefit of all the local interests you now enjoy? —No. And there is another thing. I am not going to live for ever, and there is not the same guarantee that my successor will take the same amount of interest in education as myself. 34. Do you see any objection to the parents of the children attending the secondary schools having direct representation on the governing bodies of these schools?—No; I think it would be a great advantage to have it. There is a point I wish to refer to in regard to the lady teacher who has been mentioned. I have looked this matter up. This teacher is only one of three or four cases dealt with in precisely the same manner. In every case a request came from the Committee to have a male appointed in charge where the school rose a grade. The Board offered this lady a position equivalent to that she was asked to surrender, and carrying the same salary, and she declined. She was offered the position of sole teacher at Otakau School. The Board afterwards negotiated with the Caversham School for an appointment for this teacher there. She first accepted it, and then declined it, and accepted an appointment under the Southland Board. That appointment under the Southland Board she is about to relinquish, and she has made several appeals to the Otago Board to return to our service, and she has in writing frankly admitted that she made a mistake in the action she first took. The Board has determined to make an effort to find an equivalent position for this lady as early as possible. 35. Mr. Poland.] If a male had been in charge of that school when it rose from Grade 3 to Grade 4, would the Board have taken the same steps? —No. 36. Mr. Pirani.] Is it a rule of the Otago Board that no female shall be in charge of a Grade 4 school? —We have not made a rule of it, but we have made a practice of it. There is no instance where it has been permitted, and Ido not think the Board will permit it. I think the policy being pursued by the Board is a correct one. Ido not think it is desirable in a twoteacher school that both should be females. Such a school carries a salary up to £210, and that position, I say, ought to be filled by a male. We have to do this to prevent the positions passing from the hands of male into female teachers. Of the teachers passing from the training colleges, and necessarily costing the country a great deal of money for their training, the proportion of males who retire is very low, but the proportion of females who retire is very high. The consequence is that the larger the proportion of male teachers we retain in the service the lower the cost inevitably must be of preparing teachers through the training colleges. 37. Do you mean to say that the salary of this lady teacher would have risen in this position to £210 if she had remained? —Ultimately. 38. What is the salary she would have received if she had remained at that moment? —£180. 39. The Chairman.} Is there any other Education Board in New Zealand that adopts the same line of treatment in regard to lady teachers on the score of policy?—l am not aware of it. Lavinia Kelsey examined on oath. (No. 59.) 1. The Chairman.} You are president of the Dunedin Kindergarten Association? —Yes; I have been connected with it since its initiation, over twenty-one years ago. lam here as a representative of the Dunedin Free Kindergarten Association, to bring before your notice the value of kindergarten education. We as an association have been largely the pioneers of this movement in the Dominion, and we think the time has now come when the primary work of our public schools should be brought more into harmony with the ""atest developments of Froebel's teaching. We feel that this could be accomplished by the Education Department importing for each of its training colleges a thoroughly up-to-date kindergartner, who would give her services both to their college and to the trainees of our association. We believe that in the training colleges both in Melbourne and in Sydney kindergarten forms the basis of all the training, and all primary work is but a development of its influence. The Training College in Dunedin already opens some of its classes to our trainees, but the purely 7 kindergarten training has still to remain in our hands, for there is an educative atmosphere about our kindergartens which we would like to see in every school. For this reason, we are glad that our work is in. the hands of a committee of women, and we shall be sorry if the State ever takes our schools over as part of its machinery. The kindergarten alone recognizes the value of mothers-meetings, where the teacher meets the mother and the mother meets the teacher. We feel confident that in this we are but pioneers, and the interrelation of home and school will be an established factor in our land. As an association we could do far better work if we were allowed to keep the little ones till they are six years of age, and a better training could be given to our trainees if when certificated they could find work in a State school. We regret that many schools calling themselves kindergartens have little or nothing of the spirit of Froebel. An attractive name for a school is an easy way to gain pupils, but it is not for a name that we plead. We plead for that great education which springs from the self-activity of the child —the education which above all others gives that scientific training of thought, so necessary in life. We know that it is on these lines alone that the child's mind and soul can enter into its rightful possession of God's universe. 2. We have had our attention directed a good deal to the question of teaching sexual physiology in our public schools :do you approve of that?— Yes, if it is in the hands of the right person. 3. Do you think a single woman would be a right and proper person to select as a possible teacher? —Very few single women —one in a thousand may be. Certainly it would be far better done by one who has been a mother.
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Invercargill, Thursday, 20th June, 1912. Joseph Crosby Smith examined on oath. (No. 60.) 1. The Chairman.} You are a member of the Southland Education Board, I understand? — Yes, I have been a member for a number of years. I have interested myself in the work of primary education for a great number of years. I have a statement which I will read to the "Commission, as follows : Referring to the third article in your Commission's order of reference, I do not think that much further power could be wisely given to Education Boards while all the money is being derived from the consolidated revenue. There are, however, just two little matters that I may mention. First, Boards should be given funds to provide for conveyance allowance, and whether that conveyance is by vehicle or riding on horseback should be entirely at the discretion of the Education Board. How often are Education Boards informed by deputations that there is no one in the district who can be obtained to drive the children to school! I venture to say that there would be at least fifty fewer schools in the Dominion if parents were given an allow-ance for ponies. Second, Education Boards suffer great indignity at the hands of the Education Department by sending an officer of the Public Works Department or Lands Department to report on what he considers to be the best position to place a school, and this after the Board has probably sent one or two commissions of its own number to the district and considered the matter from every possible point of view, and who certainly know the w-hole bearings of the matter. There is just one other grievance I would refer to. I think the regulation of the Department which replaces two pupil-teachers by one assistant is suicidal. How are we to obtain a sufficient number of trained teachers in the future? This is just what has been happening in the various trades in the country. Too few apprentices have been allowed, with the result that tradesmen cannot now be obtained to meet the demands. With regard to School Committees, I would widen their scope by grouping them into areas of, say, five miles radius and allowing one Committee to govern all the schools in that area. This would have the advantage of creating more responsibility and increased interest, and have a tendency to obtain only enthusiastic members on the Committee. To obviate so very much going round with the hat I would increase their capitation by at least Is, 6d., and ask them to attend to certain repairs which at present is thrown on to the Boards. I would further increase their interest and usefulness in education matters by giving them the option of appointing a small sub-committee to confer with the Board at the appointment of all teachers above the rank of pupil-teacher. The Committee could then, as well as the Board, often be made acquainted with information which is only in the possession of the Board. A national scheme of appointment, on a percentage basis, should be evolved, such as that now in use in Auckland, and which, so far as I can learn, approaches nearest to a scientific principle. Education Boards should absorb High School Boards of Governors. The two together could be worked much more economically, although, so far as the Southland High School Board is concerned, it would be difficult to make the secretarial and office expenses much lower, which only come to £100 per annum. It would be to the advantage of both primary and secondary education if the Inspectors of the primary schools were also the Inspectors of the secondary schools, which would have the advantage of acquainting them with any overlapping, and, on the other hand, showing the Inspectors the great gap which often exists between a Sixth Standard proficiency scholar and the starting-point of that scholar in the secondary school, and apply the remedy. I submit that the step from one to the other should be almost imperceptible. Technical instruction : In the expenditure on technical and manual instruction I consider there is a good deal of money wasted on subjects that are superfluous. For instance, much time is taken up with shorthand and typewriting. As these subjects lend very little to what one might call education, they might well be left to shorthand and typewriting schools. To be able to typewrite and use shorthand is no doubt a useful acquisition, but they are much more readily acquired a little later than the technical-school age. The same applies to the use of engineering machinery. These are most expensive tools to acquire. In the ordinary technical college only the theory of engineering and allied subjects should be taught, and then, on the production of certificate's for mechanical drawing, geometrical drawing, applied mechanics and the physics of electricity, the student should only be required to serve an apprenticeship of not more than three years, instead of five, in some engineering workshop, after which he could again apply to his parent technical college for a complete engineer's certificate. The Government itself should set the example in this by insisting that all-applicants for positions in the engineering departments of the Government w-orkshops should possess such certificates from some technical college. If any student wished to go further than this and qualify himself for the highest possible position, he should then be granted a scholarship of a substantial character, to attend the Canterbury Engineering College, which has already obtained a status for efficiency equal to that of the Otago School of Mines. Technical day and evening classes should be controlled by Associated Boards, the membership being made up much as at present —constituted where Associated Boards are already in existence; but I would make a certain amount of the contributions compulsory on the part of Borough Councils and County Councils, and that all contributions should bear a Government subsidy of £2 to every £1 contributed otherwise. This I think would tend to economy and the adoption of such subjects only as were useful. Agriculture I would have taught only by experts in properly constituted agricultural colleges, each surrounded by 400 acres which could be made largely self-supporting. The same conditions of entry as to other technical colleges should apply, including free travel. This plan would have the advantage of economy and thoroughness. I strongly believe that something should be done in the way of compulsory continuation schools. From 50 per cent, to 75 per cent, of the knowledge imparted in the primary schools is wasted, because it does not become assimilated in the mind of the boy or girl before he or she has to leave school. It is only after a lad reaches well into his teens that he begins to
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consider what he would like to be in life, and to think of the opportunities he has lost or are still his to attain. If then he could have two or three more years school-life, much of the knowledge previously imparted would come to his assistance, and, by recapitulation, become so fixed in his mind that it would never leave him. Employers, however, will never submit to allowing boys to attend continuation classes during working-hours, as it would disorganize the whole staff. Parents generally are not unwilling that their boys should attend continuation schools, but they simply cannot afford it. They must get to work and assist in the household revenue. Grown-up boys require as much feeding and clothing as grown men. If boys have to learn a trade, employers prefer them, not later than fifteen years of age. To overcome this difficulty, I would suggest that if a boy does two or three years extra schooling at an advanced technical school, the term of his apprenticeship should be shortened to four years, iustead of five as at present. The increased knowledge and intelligence of that boy would more than recoup the employer for the loss of one year's apprenticeship, and the boy would be more valuable to the State for the rest of his natural life. You ask, if parents cannot afford to allow their boys to attend continuation schools, how would you provide for them? I would do it by a system of scholarships granted to every boy that passed the Sixth Standard, and whose parents were not in receipt of an income exceeding £160 a year. The interest w-e spend on a " Dreadnought " would more than provide these scholarships, and the Dominion would then have a valuable return to show for its money. This view of compulsory continuation education expresses my opinion, and answers those who talk about doing away with monetary- town scholarships. Nature-study, if properly developed by the teacher, can be made of lifelong use. Where a teacher is enthusiastic on the subject the scholars rarely fail to be the same. Once develop the faculty in any one to see small things, he will not fail to see the large ones. Create a faculty of observation in a boy and he will be invaluable to whoever employs him. If our education system could create in its pupils three things—concentration, observation, and respect for the eleventh commandment, they have received the best education the world can give them. It is useless as yet to condemn nature-study as taught in New Zealand schools, for it has had no time to show its benefits in the grown-up citizen. 2. Mr. Wells.] What is the system with regard to promotions in this district? —We have the full list of applicants before us, with all the data as to age, whether married or single, service, and so on. Most of the names are, as a rule, known to us, but testimonials may be read if required. We go carefully through the list and make a selection. The Inspectors are present at the meetings, and furnish us with any additional information we may- require. Invariably we act on the advice of the Inspectors. 3. Do you send in one name only for the vacancy?—We send four names : that is the usual practice. 4. Has that system led to canvassing? —Not much. For my own part, I like to see personally the candidates, because, although a man may have all the necessary teaching-ability, one has to judge from appearance and personality to some extent. 5. You quite recognize that the Inspectors really are the men who can best judge as to the abilities of teachers? —Decidedly so. They see them at work. 6. Do you think the Board would be prepared to adopt such a scheme as is in operation in Auckland, Wanganui, and Taranaki? —Yes, we have drawn up such a scheme of our own, which Inspector Hendry will submit to you when he comes before you. To my mind it is almost a perfect system. 7. Do you find any difficulty in filling positions in backblocks schools in this district?— Yes, there is great difficulty. In many cases recently there has been, only one applicant. 8. Are many of the teachers in those schools uncertificated? —A great number of them are. 9. Do you think it would make country service "more attractive if it were counted as extra service—say, two years in a backblock school to count as three in a town, or something of that kind?—l think something of that sort should be allowed. They are deserving of it. 10. In the case of candidates for promotion, if there is one teacher of outstanding ability on the list, is it the practice of the Board to send in one name only?-—No; we invariably send four names. 11. Is the one at the top of the list of four usually chosen? —It is often the man at the bottom. 12. Then there is often injustice done? —Just so. 13. With regard to free books?- —My opinion is that the money spent on free books is wasted, and that the books the children require to use at home should be their own property. 14. With regard to local contributions, would you give the local body power to levy a rate? —Yes, I think it would be necessary. I understand it would be subsidized by the Department. In the principal towns in New Zealand it would not amount-to more than |d. in the pound. 15. How many high schools have you in this district? —Two. The boys' and girls' high schools are separate schools, but under the same control. 16. Do you think there are many instances in which schools might be closed and the children conveyed to the centres? —I think there are very few in this district. 17. There must be a good deal of local"opposition to the closing of schools?— Yes, but this Board, so far as my experience has gone, has been very careful about opening new schools. Ithas always been avoided where possible. If riding-allowance were given we could close a good many of the schools in this district—ten at least, I should think. 18. Mr. Kirk.] What allowance would you make?—l think the present vehicle allowance, if made for riding, would meet the case. 19. Would you provide the horses? —They would provide them themselves. 20. How are the poor people going to do it? —They can manage to scrape up a pony somehow. At present you cannot get people to drive them to school, and over and over again we have had applications for riding-allowance, and the parents are astonished when they cannot get it.
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21. Have the parents got ponies? —I could not say, but if a man writes to the Board and says the parents want riding-allowance granted we assume they have something to take the children to school upon. 22. Are there not many who have no ponies and who have not the money wherewith to buy them ?—Most of them have hacks, you know. 23. Assuming a school were closed on the understanding that riding-allowance would be granted, would you not be bombarded for grants for the supply of ponies?—l do not think so. I think they would be satisfied with the riding-allowance. 24. As a business man what have you to say with regard to the standard of education, judging from the boys who enter business firms after leaving school? —The writing is decidedly poor. Very few of the boys are fit to address envelopes. There is a good deal of grumbling amongst the tradespeople about it, and it has been mentioned by the Chamber of Commerce more than once. The spelling is not so bad, but composition is decidedly bad. My chief complaint is that they are not taught to add up long columns of figures. As a rule, by the time a boy gets half-way up a column he forgets where he is, and he is invariably wrong when he gets to the top. I think more time should be devoted to the practical side than to the problem side. 25. Are the boys being turned out with a capacity to reasonably use their brains? —I should say so, but the chief complaint is a want of concentration. I do not know what should be done to remedy it, as I am not an expert in teaching. 26. Might it not be that they are taken from one subject to another too quickly during the day?—l think there is a good deal in that. 27. You are an old teacher of shorthand, and speaking as such you are against the teaching of shorthand and typewriting in the public schools I —Yes. 28. Have you any remarks to make on the subject of home-work? —I am against home-work generally below the Third Standard. From the Third Standard I would allow a certain amount of home-work. And here I would like to remark that I have noticed that boys in the Third Standard are not as a rule bad writers. By the time they reach the Sixth Standard they are bad writers, and by the time they leave the high school they are worse still. This, I think, arises to some extent from the home lessons being written down on a blackboard and the students having to scribble them down as fast as possible in order to get their notes. Then they continue the same kind of scribbling at home. 29. With regard to this riding-allowance, again, which you suggest should be paid, do you not think there are numbers of parents who would not be able to purchase horses?—Of course, it is a difficult matter. I assume no Education Board would really close up a school until they saw their way to provide for the whole of the pupils. Of course, there might be poor farmers in the backblocks who could not afford a hack on which to send their children. 30. Mr. Poland.] You say you would provide a system of scholarships to be granted to boys who had passed the Sixth Standard whose parents are not in receipt of an income exceeding £160 a year: why do you suggest that limit?--! assume people with incomes below that could not afford to pay the fees for continuation classes. If they can afford to pay I think the children should simply have to go to the continuation school. 31. Is a man in receipt of £160 a year who has one child in a worse position than a man with an income of £200 who has four children ?—There is a difficulty there, and for that reason I hesitated about making such a recommendation. I think, of course, that a man with four children gets more benefits from the State. 32. You think that those who can afford technical education and continuation classes should provide it for themselves?— Yes. 33. Would you apply that to primary education?— Not exactly. 34. With regard to rating, do you think it would be a fair thing that people in an outlying district in a county who can receive no practical benefit from technical education should be compelled to pay rates for the upkeep of that education? —Well, to some extent the same thing applies to primary education. People who have no children say, " Why should we have to pay? " We have to help one another. 35. You are of the opinion that the money expended on supplying free school-books is wasted: why do you think that?— Because fully 75 per cent, of the children will have nothing to do with the free books. They buy their own. 36. Do you mean to say that if the children were allowed to take the free books home they would not accept them? —That is a different question. I do not think there would be the same objection if they could take the books home just as they take the School Journal, for instance. 37. Can you make any suggestions to the Commission as to how the cost of education can be reduced without impairing its efficiency? —I have already made some suggestions in my opening remarks, although I have not laboured the matter. Take agriculture, for instance : I think that that being a special subject should be taught by a special man in a special place. That would increase the efficiency of the teaching, and though the cost might not be reduced in pounds shillings and pence, we should have better value for our money. It would also prevent overlapping. 38. Do you suggest it would reduce the cost at all?—I think so. 39. Do you know anything about district high schools?—No, except as a member of the Board. I think, however, the salaries of the district high school-teachers are too low. They are not high enough, I consider, in any of the secondary schools. 40. What about the salaries in the primary schools? —In the higher grades I do not think the pay is sufficient. In the- lower grades, generally speaking, I think fhe pay is reasonable. I feel that if the teachers in the higher grades had applied their abilities to almost any other profession they would have been in receipt of very good salaries.
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41. Do you not approve of the teaching of an agricultural course in the district high school? —No, I would have such a subject taught at a separate institution altogether. 42. Mr. Pirani.] Do you seriously say you would make the continuation classes compulsory, and make the pupils pay for the compulsory education? —I would make all pay- who had over £160 a year income. 43. How would you find out the people who had £160 a year? —Just as we find out in regard to the National Scholarships. 44. That has been abolished, because the Boards could not find it out. Do you know any better system than that of finding it out? —No. 45. Do you not think that, as it was considered advisable to abolish it in connection with the National Scholarships, it is just as advisable to abolish your own idea of compulsory classes? —I do not know. I should like to see it tried. 46. Would you be in favour of making parents with an income of over £160 pay for the day attendance of their children at school for their ordinary education ?—No, I would prefer to keep it as it is now. 47. You said there was some slight canvassing for positions by teachers, and that you would prefer to judge yourself by the personal appearance of the applicant : do you mean the personal appearance of a lady teacher? —It applies both ways. 48. Do you think that a man's ability, his capacity for teaching, his good record, should all be put on one side because you do not like his personal appearance?— Not necessarily. No wise Board would do that. 49. Do you not think it is an unfair thing to make a man's or woman's personal appearance a factor in promotion to a position he or she has justly earned? —You know well enough, putting it into every-day common-sense, that if you see a man you make certain impressions of your own as to whether he will suit you or not. If you see a man or woman come in slovenly in dress or appearance you form an unfavourable opinion, and I think that goes a long way when you are deciding what should be done. I apply the same principles in appointments by this Board that I do in my own business. 50. Have you any kindergartens in this district, apart from the primary schools? —Yes, but I do not know anything of their work. 51. Has the Board ever considered the question of supplying all school requisites instead of the Committees having to buy everything they want retail? —No; but we favour the money that is being spent on free school-books being spent in that direction. 52. Do you not think it would tend to economy if you got all your school requisites wholesale instead of purchasing everything retail, as at present?— Probably there would be a considerable saving. 53. In regard to the conveyance of pupils, do you know that the Department do pay an allowance to pupil-teachers for riding, either on a bicycle or horse?— No. 54. Do you think it would be a fair thing to extend that principle to pupils as well as to pupil-teachers? —I decidedly think so. 55. Mr. Davidson.] Do you know how many schools of the highest grade you have in this district I —No. 56. You would be surprised to learn you have only one?— Yes. 57. Do you know how many there are of the second-highest grade? —I think about three. 58. You will be surprised to learn, then, you have only one?— Yes. 59. You have only two schools of the third-highest grade in this district. Now, seeing that there is only one prize, if you can call it a prize, in this district, and knowing as I do that you have some of the most highly qualified teachers here to be found in New Zealand, what chance is there of these men getting into the highest positions in the teaching service?- —Verylittle. 60. Then do you think that the lack of chance of promotion will tend to make the teaching service unpopular ? —lt does. 61. Do you think that men in the teaching service should have equal opportunities for promotion with those in other branches of the public service? —Yes, I do. 62. Do you think that a Dominion scheme of promotion would help to make the teaching service more popular? —I think be the best thing that could happen to the teaching service. 63. You would, then, strongly approve of establishing a Dominion scheme of promotion for the teaching service? —Yes, I think it is absolutely essential. 64. Have you considered the advisability of increasing the area over which certain Education Boards have jurisdiction?—l would not increase the area of this district, at any rate. I do not know about the others. 65. Do you know anything about the area of the Auckland Education District? —Yes, I knowit is very large. 66. Do you think the Auckland Education District is too large?—No, I would not say it is too large; but, on the other hand, I would allow the Chairman of the Auckland Board—and this would apply to some of the other Boards —an honorarium, and then probably he would be able to devote more time to the executive work. A great deal of the correspondence that is now dealt with by the Board could be dealt with by the Chairman and Secretary. 67. You do not think the Auckland Education District would be too large under these conditions?— No. 68. You suggested that the same Inspectors could inspect and examine the secondary schools as well as the primary schools? —Yes.
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69. Do you think it would be a wise thing to have the Inspectors placed under the central Department?— Perhaps it would. It would give uniformity to the various examinations in New Zealand, which there is not at the present time. So far as f can understand there is no standard in New Zealand for the guidance of Inspectors. 70. You think the placing of fnspectors under the Central Department would lead to greater uniformity and better co-ordination of the system of education? —I am sure it would. 71. You know, too, that the salaries of Inspectors vary a great deal in the different districts? —That is so. 72. Would not the placing of the inspectorate under the Central Department remove that evil?— Yes, it would. 73. Assuming that the education districts were reduced considerably in number and that the Inspectors were placed under the Central Department, do you think it would be a good thing to have in each district, as they have in some States in America, a Superintendent of Education, who would do the work you suggested should be done by the Chairman —who would be the eyes and ears of the Chairman, and be the connecting-link between the departmental officers and the Board? —I think the Secretary of each Board could do that instead. 74. Do you not think it would be better to have an educational expert to advise the Chairman of the Board on all matters educational? —No, I would not adopt that line. 75. Have you studied at all the systems in operation in some of the most advanced States in America?—l have done a little reading about American education, but not much. 76. You do not know, then, that in these States such an officer is almost invariably appointed to act as educational adviser to the Chairman of the Board?—No, I do not think that is necessary in New Zealand. 77. Mr. Thomson.] Do you know of any other way in which economy can be effected in the Southland Education District other than those } 7 ou have mentioned? —I cannot think of any just now. 78. Do you think there has been any unwarranted expenditure in this district? —No. I think it has been the reverse of that. 79. Do you think there has been any waste either in buildings or materials?—l do not think so; our credit balance proves that generally. 80. Mr. Hogben.] Some of the work in secondary schools would include mathematics as high as that taken for the B.A. degree, fairly high science, Latin, Greek, French, and German, and pretty advanced English : would you choose as the Inspectors of primary schools only people who would be capable of examining in these things in the secondary schools?— No. I assume that if, as Mr. Davidson just now suggested, the Inspectors were centralized you would have Inspectors for the different subjects. 81. That really means you would have different men to inspect the secondary schools?—lf the Inspectors were centralized in Wellington you would have Inspectors of different grades, and they would take the different grades of schools. 82. You said that employers would never agree to allow boys to attend classes during workinghours I—Yes.1 —Yes. 83. Are you aware that a great many of the largest firms in Great Britain all allow time off to their apprentices to attend classes?— The difference is that in England they are allowed far more apprentices than we are here—they are allowed as many apprentices in England as they can put on. They have so many more boys than we have that they can afford to allow the boys time off to attend classes. If we did that we would have to shut down our business. The trouble here is that we cannot get boys. 84. You said in regard to handwriting that children ought to be taught the right kind of stroke at the same slope for a long time?— Yes. 85. Do you think that would be very interesting work for the children?—No, but it has to be done, and you would turn out efficient writers at the end of it, 86. Are you aware that in the period of growth from early childhood up to the age of fourteen or fifteen the proportion of the length of the fingers and arms all change considerably?— They may change. 87. They do change, and will that not affect the position of the slope of the hands and therefore the slope of the writing?—l do not think so. 88. You would have poverty scholarships?—l would not admit it as "poverty scholarships," for the same reason that we will not admit the word " workhouse " in New Zealand. 89. They are scholarships given on account of poverty? —No, not on account of poverty at all. Because a man cannot afford to pay for a thing does not necessarily mean that he is in poverty. 90. Are you aware of any system of poverty scholarships in existence anywhere that has succeeded in actual practice? —No; but it does not necessarily follow that because it has not succeeded that it should not succeed. 91. I will take the case of a clerk in a town who is in receipt of an income of £4 per week : you would not give his children a scholarship ?—No. 92. Now, a farmer lives very largely on the produce of his own land, and his nominal income is £200 a year : how are you going to find out his actual income?—l do not know. The Government are trying to find these things out under the income regulations. 93. If it does not act fairly is it right in principle? —I do not see any other way to do it. We know for a fact that a good many parents cannot allow their children to continue at school when they reach seventeen years of age. They have to do some work. 94. But you would take the scholarship away from one who has a little more money?—We have to draw a line, and that is where I think we should draw it. 95. Do not the wealthy people pay under a proper system of taxation? —I do not know, I am sure.
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96. Do you realize what it would cost to send all our agricultural students to special schools and colleges : do you know we should have to supply something like seven thousand or eight thousand agricultural workers a year to keep up the supply in New Zealand? —Yes. 97. And if we put from two hundred to two hundred and fifty pupils in each college that would mean establishing thirty-two colleges in New Zealand ?—Yes. 98. That is for a one-year course. How much do you think it would cost to train each pupil a year?— About £8 to £10. 99. Would that keep him and provide instruction and laboratories? —He would go home every night. 100. Then, you would only give the instruction to the pupil who could travel there every day? —Yes. ■101. What about the others who are away in the country? —They would have to do as they do now —if they cannot get to it they cannot get to it. 102. So you would not provide it for them where they live?— No. 103. But if there is another way to provide it would you consider it?—l do not think there is any other way to do it with the same efficiency. 104. The Chairman.] Why do you think compulsory continuation classes at night could not be made successful in a community like this? —I think compulsory evening classes would not be a success, from the fact that you could not drive a boy to do work at night after he has been working in the daytime. 105. We were told at Auckland that there was a marked desire on the part of those engaged in manufactures to allow boys to go into the technical school on part-time, and that the failure of the Arbitration Court to recognize that as part of the training is the only bar : have you any reason for doubting that statement? —I do not think the system would work in practice. 106. Mr. Hogben has already told you what is already very largely the custom in Great Britain, and if I assure you it is also a fact that in the United States the employers encourage their apprentices to go into the technical schools, is there any reason to think that the employers in New Zealand would not do the same? —Yes, I think there is. 107. And how is a boy to get the theoretical training that all authorities admit can only be got in a technical school? —I do not know. If a boy desires more information he will attend the evening classes, but I was referring to the lad driven to school against his will in the evening. I think you could not make any impression on him whatever. 108. You, as president of the local Chamber of Commerce, tell the Commission that the opinions you expressed to-day as to the weakness of the primary-school system are shared by 7 your fellow-members very largely?— Decidedly so. 109. Seeing that this district is one that is largely dependent on agriculture for its welfare, do you not think the course of instruction given first in the primary school and then in the district high school should be carried on to its proper conclusion by means of higher agricultural institutions in this district? —Yes, and that is what I mean by the agricultural colleges. I think the school gardens are admirable things from the very fact that the pupils are allowed to make notes and watch the plants grow. 110. You have expressed a strong opinion as to the quantity of home lessons given to the children in the primary schools : is that your opinion as a parent? —Yes. 111. A gentleman in Dunedin says this: "As to the abuse of home lessons, I feel sure that is quite in accord with your broad-minded views. Children's brains have very little or no rest. They begin at 9 a.m. and leave off study at 9 p.m. at night. The strain is very bad indeed on young and growing children, especially girls. The parents practically do half or more of the teaching at nights which has been set out by the teacher for home lessons. This is a time when the most of fathers and mothers want a rest after their daily toil. If the syllabus was cut down to real sensible lines it w 7 ould, as you well know, be better for all concerned. The children could then get a better grounding on more beneficial subjects which are so needful to their every-day life. The present system is driving, not teaching." Do you indorse that? —I indorse that entirely. That applies to the time when my 7 boys were at school. 112. Mr. Wells.] How long ago is that? —Fifteen years ago. 113. Mr. Thomson.] Do you really think that the statements in that letter are in accordance with fact: do you think that that amount of home-work is going on in Southland ?—I do not know that it is now. 114. Mr. Davidson.} What is your opinion as to tire advantages or disadvantages of the establishing of the School Journal? —l think the School Journal is an exceedingly good thing, and my only complaint against it is that I think it should be a little larger. I think it is of considerable benefit in the home itself, and the children, so far as I see, are greatly interested in it. 115. The Chairman.] You spoke of the benefit arising from the fact of the Government recognizing the certificate granted by technical schools: would you carry that principle a stage further and say it would prove an encouragement to technical education if the Government were to give the foremost pupils in the schools preference of employment in its workshops and engineering shops?—l think so. Angus McNeill examined on oath. (No. 61.) 1. The Chairman.] What is your position?—l am headmaster of the Bluff School. I have been in charge there for one year. I was in charge at Otautau for about twelve years, and at Colac Bay for eleven years: I am a Master of Arts of the New Zealand University. 2. Have you any statement to make in regard to the subject-matter of our Commission?— Yes. I wish first to refer to the question of education in the backblocks schools and in the sole-
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teacher schools generally. This class of schools constitutes the largest group of schools in the Dominion, and is responsible for the education of a very large number of pupils. Sole-teacher schools always have presented, and always will present, special difficulties, for fhe reason that the sole teacher has to teach not only all the subjects, but also all the classes. Uncertificated and inexperienced teachers generally pass their term of probation in the smallest of these schools, as -no certificated teachers can be got at the salaries offering. If these teachers " make good " they contrive in most cases to get away to a position in a larger school; if they fail they either drop out of the service or continue to be its special weakness. There is no quite satisfactory solution of the difficulty; even fixing a minimum salary of £150 for certificated teachers will not remove the special difficulties of the sole-teacher schools. The best of teachers could not make a shining success of a school of thirty-five pupils divided into seven classes, and the best teachers will always be unwilling to accept or remain in positions in which they know it is impossible to do work satisfactory to themselves, and in which they cannot prove their ability. The best policy seems to be to limit the number of sole-teacher schools. At a conference attended by over a hundred Southland teachers last June this question was discussed at length. It was the unanimous opinion of the meeting that, wherever possible, a trial should be made of conveying pupils to large central rural schools, instead of creating or maintaining a multitude of small inefficient schools. Such a S} 7 stem would only be an extension of a system now in existence. The Education Department pays a considerable sum (£2 per pupil per annum, I think) for the conveyance of pupils by rail. Such expenditure is incurred by regulation on the certificate of a teacher. I refer to the expenditure on free-school season tickets. From the point of view of the Education Department, therefore, the expenditure of a considerable sum for conveyance would not be a new departure. That the system can be carried out successfully, and that it is conducive to greater efficiency, is proved by the experience of Canada. A difficulty is apprehended by some in the opposition of parents to the long distances that the children will have to travel. But there are compensating advantages in addition to more efficient instruction. With covered conveyances the pupils can attend school every day without the discomfort of getting wet; they will be under supervision all the way to and from school, and they will not be away from home for an unreasonably long time, since the system would not be established in districts where the conditions make reasonable hours impossible. As regards compulsory attendance at a central rural school, there would be no difficulty, since the Act, as well as the ruling of Magistrates, has defined the compulsory distance as the distance the pupil would have to walk either to the school or to the railway or public conveyance provided. There is no doubt whatever that in so far as the number of sole-teacher schools can be reduced to that extent there will be an immediate and tangible improvement in the efficiency of the instruction. The centralization scheme, if adopted, will not, of course, abolish the evil of sole-teacher schools; but it will, we hope, materially reduce the number of pupils that must get their primary education in these schools. At the conference to which I have referred there was also a discussion on the difficulty of coping in these schools with all the subjects in the extensive and complex syllabus, and the opinion was expressed that the syllabus might with advantage be simplified. In my opinion an improvement in the quality of the work done in these schools (and, indeed, in all schools) might be expected if less were attempted, so that there would be time to teach the essentials thoroughly. The present syllabus enjoins methods of teaching, and prescribes matter that can reasonably be prescribed only under ideal conditions — i.e., in schools in which each teacher has charge of only one class of about thirty pupils at one time. An example of the kind of matter I refer to is the astronomical and geological deductions prescribed under " Geography A." As to co-ordination as a means of reducing the number of subjects, it is not merely co-ordination but absorption of the new subjects that is required. Some so-called subjects of instruction should have no place in a primary-school syllabus, except in so far as they can be made subsidiary to what may be called the legitimate subjects of a primary course of education—that is, they are not subjects, but methods of teaching. Nature-study should be absorbed in geography and composition, handwork in drawing, &c, and physical measurements in arithmetic and geography. I wish, in the second place, to present my views on the Regulations for the Examination and Classification of Teachers. The regulations at present in force I shall refer to as the " old regulations " or the " present regulations," and the regulations issued on the 13th February, 1912, as the " new regulations " or the " 1912 regulations." The Institute has from time to time recommended the amendment of the regulations. In particular, the Department has been urged (1) to allow the candidates for the D certificate to take the examination in sections, (2) to restore history to the list of compulsory subjects, and (3) to account a certificate in first aid and ambulance as partially satisfying the requirements in the subject of human physiology. The new regulations, while in some respects an improvement, must be considered unsatisfactory in the following respect: (1.) The division into sections is too unequal; too much is required in the first section. There are thirteen compulsory and two optional subjects. In the first, section the candidate must take either thirteen compulsory subjects or nine compulsory and two optional subjects, leaving either two or four subjects for the second section. Such a division is not conducive to thoroughness. It is true that a candidate may- obtain a partial pass in the first section by passing in nine subjects, the second section in such case being the remainder of the examination—that is, six subjects. If under these circumstances six subjects can constitute the second section, surely it would be much better to allow the candidate to concentrate his studies upon the nine most essential subjects for the first section, which will have a certain value, as being equivalent in some respects to a certificate of lower grade. The division of the D examination into sections was asked for with a view to giving the uncertificated teachers already in the service a fair opportunity of qualifying for a certificate. It is claimed that a fair division into sections will make for more thorough knowledge of the subjects of the examination, especially
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in the case of candidates far away from centres where they get tuition. To such candidates it will be a hardship to qualify in algebra and geometry in the first section. Further, although a camdidate electing to be examined in methods of teaching in the first section may be quite ignorant of some subjects, such as geography and history, if these are deferred to his second section, yet he is expected to know how to teach these subjects. I consider that the division of the D examination into sections will not be helpful to the candidate in guiding him as to the order in which he should study the subjects for his certificate. In my opinion the first section should require a thorough knowledge of the most essential subjects of the primary-school syllabus, together with a tolerable knowledge of the methods of teaching them; the second section should be the remainder of the examination, including a more advanced and comprehensive paper in methods of teaching. An uncertificated teacher who had passed in the first section of the D examination so divided could reasonably be intrusted with the sole charge of a small school for a year, and there would be a reasonable guarantee that he could do his work tolerably. Under the 1912 regulations, however, a teacher might pass a much stiffer examination to get his first section, and yet be quite ignorant of geography and history. (2.) The provision requiring a candidate to attend an approved course in ambulance and first aid is unreasonable, and will make it absolutely impossible for the majority of uncertificated teachers (who are employed in schools in the backblocks) to qualify for a certificate till they can get a position in a town school, while without a certificate their chance of getting such a position is practically nil. (3.) Similarly, it is unreasonable to require a candidate to produce a certificate to the effect that he has carried out satisfactorily a course of practical work in some elementary science. Scientific experts cannot be expected to turn up providentially in every out-back district to preside benevolently over the scientific experiments of the local candidate for the D examination; and such a certificate is unnecessary. A capable examiner can easily discover whether a candidate's knowledge is practical or merely book knowledge. Why, the examiner in human physiology almost annually complains that numbers of the candidates have never dissected a rabbit, and he relies upon the evidence of the written answers to his questions as proof of his confident assertion. (4.) There is no justification whatever for increasing the difficulty of the D examination by adding a subject. The old regulations require fourteen subjects, the new regulations fifteen. In this enumeration the three branches of drawing required under both sets of regulations are counted as three separate subjects. Two subjects have been taken from the optional "and added to the compulsory list — i.e. (1) history, and (2) mathematics for men and needlework for women; having one optional subject if the present number of subjects were adhered to. But the new regulations require a pass in thirteen compulsory and two optional subjects. If the standard for the D certificate ought to be raised —and I do not say that it ought not to be raised—the proper course is not to require a superficial knowledge of an additional subject, but a more thorough knowledge of the essential subjects. I have, indeed, advocated a higher standard in English, and have suggested that one play of Shakespeare and one prose-work—say, an essay of Macaulay— be set for study, the candidate to show an appreciation of the thought-content. But of what value to a New Zealand teacher is a knowledge of Spanish, which he is invited to take as one of his optional subjects for the D certificate? And if his knowledge of Spanish is not up to the mark, is it reasonable to refuse him a certificate? Of course, it is desirable that teachers should have a knowledge of sciences and of languages, but that is provided for in the higher grade of certificates. The authorities that make appointments can discriminate, and if they do not, they must learn to discriminate between the grades of certificates. If a teacher is required who is practically qualified to teach a science, for example, one must be selected whose certificate implies such a qualification. Having pointed out some defects in the new regulations, I wish to refer in a general way to the conditions which render amendment in the directions suggested necessary. There is no hardship in requiring training-college students to comply with all the provisions of the new regulations before granting them a D certificate. Their goal is not the D examination. The principals of those institutions can be relied upon to see that their students do much more than comply with these conditions. But the training colleges have failed, and are destined to fail, to supply all the teachers required to staff at present salaries the backblocks schools. Although schools cannot be staffed in accordance with departmental ideals, schools must accompany settlement in its farthest outposts. There is no other class of public servants that have to penetrate so far into the" wilderness as teachers. A teacher who goes out into the backblocks at a salary of £90, and who can teach the essential subjects satisfactorily, is of no small value to the State. Such a teacher is surely entitled to classification in the lowest class. The certificate is essential to him. Without it his tenure of office is at the pleasure of his employers; if his salary exceeds £90 it is subject to a 10-per-cent. reduction; he cannot become a contributor to or a beneficiary of the Superannuation Fund. Many uncertificated teachers at present in charge of small country schools are quite capable of qualifying themselves, by private study, for the D examination, if they are allowed to take it in sections and if unreasonable conditions are not imposed. There will always be a demand for teachers for such small schools, a demand that cannot be supplied by the training colleges. The Regulations for the Examination and Classification of Teachers must not ignore that very large class of teachers who enter the service by a side door. Ihe new feature in the regulations for the teachers' C examination is the addition of a subject — i.e., practical science. At least eighty hours have to be spent in practical work based on the syllabus for the science selected, and some branch of science is compulsory. The principle that the candidate must have an adequate practical as well as an adequate theoretical knowledge of the science is sound. Such knowledge is required in the University degree examination. It is also quite proper that in the teachers' examination there should be a stage at which a knowledge (theoretical and practical) of some one inductive science should be compulsory. This is the age of industrial science, and the man of culture must have a thorough
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appreciation of scientific method if he would appreciate modern thought, He must have firsthand knowledge of the methods of probing the taciturnity of nature. The C certificate is understood to imply a degree of education roughly equivalent to the first section of the B.A. degree of the University of New Zealand. There is no obligation on the part of the University student to take a branch of science in his first section; he may do so, or he may defer it to his second -section. To bring the Department's examinations into line with the University examinations some one branch of science should be compulsory either for the C examination or for the B examination, so that the candidate, if he found an opportunity of complying with the conditions, could pass in a science for C; if not, that he would be required to pass in a science before completing the B examination, which is understood to be equivalent to that for the B.A. degree. It is no hardship to require a training-college student to comply with the condition requiring eighty hours' practical work. But to make such a provision universally applicable would in practice limit the C certificate to those teachers who have the good fortune to be -stationed in one of the University towns. A very large number of teachers neither have attended the training college nor have any prospect of obtaining a position in one of the four centres. Now, many of these are men and women of intellectual ability, and it is surely unjust to deny them any classification higher than D, even if by study they acquire a degree of education equal to that required for the first section of the B.A. degree. Such a regulation is a distinct discouragement to selfculture. It is the fashion in these utilitarian days to belittle the study of languages, of history, of deductive philosophy, of anything that does not make for the material advancement of the State. But the humanities are not, like the learning of the Chinese, an artificial or obsolete form of culture. They are still part and parcel of a liberal education, for they appeal to a side of the human mind whose needs are not satisfied by the generalizations of positive science, the imagination and the spiritual faculties. A student may. acquire no small degree of culture, even if he confines his studies to languages and literature, to mathematics, history, and mental science. Moreover, quite apart from the obvious practical value that higher studies have for teachers, there is a special value in the study itself. Every student knows that when he Is studying, it matters not what subject, his intellect is keener and all his wits are sharpened, and if he is a teacher his teaching is more effective. The new provision regarding the C examination is to be deprecated, since it quite unnecessarily withdraws from a very large section of the teachers a very powerful incentive to study — i.e., the piospect of improving their classification. 3. Mr. Wells.] Do you know anything of the feeling of the settlers in this district with regard to the consolidation of schools in the backblocks ?—No. 4. You know that usually there is strong opposition to the losing of schools ?—Yes, by those living near to the school. 5. You think that could be overcome? —I think so. It is overcome in connection with other matters : for instance, the pupils are taken long distances to cookery and woodwork classes. 6. With regard to the examinations for teachers : first of all as to the D examination, would you approve the suggestion that, that should be taken in three sections?—l have not looked into that aspect of it, but I do not at first sight think I should approve of it. I think two sections should be sufficient. 7. You recognize that the hygiene requirement is very desirable for teachers? —Yes. 8. Do you think it would be possible to allow teachers in the backblocks to leave the taking of their certificate in that subject until they had an opportunity of doing practical work in it in the town?—lt would still leave them under serious disabilities. They would be liable to dismissal. 9. But if the regulations were altered?—lf the disabilities accruing from the regulations were removed I do not think there would be any objection. 10. The teachers in the backblocks only look, I suppose, to the gaining of the higher certificate as a means by which they can gain removal?— Yes. 11. If the C certificate is made more difficult it will again tend to render backblock service more unpopular?— Yes, to a certain extent. Of course, teachers with the qualifications of a D certificate can get moved away from the backblocks, and so they do. 12. But, naturally, the man with a C certificate has an advantage over the man with only a D? —Yes. 13. Supposing the Department could see its way to have classes held outside the centres and country teachers could attend, would your objection vanish? —Yes, but I know that is impossible. Some of our teachers in the backblocks are a day's journey away from the railway. 14. Do you think it would be a fair thing to ask teachers in out-of-the-way districts to give up the whole of their Christmas holidays in one year to the doing of this practical work?—No, they could not afford it. Some of them have to go and work in order to augment their salary. 15. With regard to the term examinations that are now held in our primary schools, do you think three are too many?—No; the only thing I am opposed to is the large amount of clerking required. 16. Do you approve of the suggestion to bring teachers out from Home?—On the whole, I do not. One objection is this : that promotion is confined to the district in which the teacher happens to be employed, and it would be only fair if you imported teachers to inform them that they would have to stay in the district in which they happened to get their first position. 17. If it were possible to introduce a Dominion system of promotions that difficulty would vanish, would it not? —Yes. Ido not think it is necessary to import any women teachers. The supply of men teachers is certainly limited, but there are sufficient women teachers for the positions. 18. Have you known of teachers who, when approaching the'superannuation age and getting past their best work, continue to hang on to their positions? —I cannot say I have.
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19. Suppose such a state of thing did exist, do you think it would be a good plan to allow a teacher to take a less onerous post without affecting his superannuation ?—I suppose it would .be reasonable. 20. What is your experience of the effect of manual work, such as woodwork and agriculture, in -the schools ? —lt is equivalent to an additional subject, and it makes for the dissipation ■of energy. The return we get for expenditure on woodwork and agriculture is very small indeed. That does not, however, apply to cookery, because in that case they make no " bones " about their object, which is to train the pupils in cookery. In the case of the woodwork classes those in charge seem unwilling to admit that it is technical education straight out, and that they want to make carpenters and cabinetmakers of the boys. lam speaking of the primary schools, of course. 21. The Chairman.] Is not the object rather to give the boys a bent in that direction? — Perhaps so. 22. Mr. Wells.] Is it your experience that manual work has had the effect of raising the self-respect and confidence of those pupils who are dull and backward in the ordinary school-work? —No. There is so little of it for the time expended upon it that the effect would hardly be appreciable. 23. Are the teachers in woodwork here men who have been trained as teachers? —Yes. 24. They are local teachers who have had training in woodwork? —Yes. 25. They are not tradesmen in any case?— No. 26. Mr. Kirk.] Is much home-work being set the children in this district? —No, only about as much as would take about three-quarters of an hour at the outside in the evening. 27. Do you think that harmful to them? —No, I think it beneficial. 28. Mr. Poland.} Is manual instruction given in the school of which you are now the master? —Not in that school, but the pupils are sent once a week to Invercargill for a portion of the year to receive instruction. 29. Have you had any experience of a district high school at all? —No. 30. How much time do you devote to the teaching of agriculture? —No time. 31. Mr. Thomson.] You will admit, I suppose, that although a teacher may be uncertificated he may still be a good teacher ? —Yes. 32. Are some of s the uncertificated teachers in Southland doing very satisfactory work?—l believe some of them are. 33. With regard to the D examination, do you not think it would help uncertificated teachers to qualify earlier if they were permitted to take the examination in three or four sections? Why confine it to two ?—I did not say I would confine it to two. I have not considered the question fully, but at the moment it appears to me there should not be more than two sections. 34. I understand in the first section there are thirteen subjects. How are a number of uncertificated teachers who have no opportunity of getting tuition going to pass the examination?— They can get some tuition by correspondence. 35. Not in practical science?— They could get theoretical knowledge, and they could carry out a good many experiments with the apparatus which should be obtained for their own school if properly equipped. Ido not say they could go through the whole of the course prescribed, but they could do a considerable part of it. 36. What is your opinion of the present syllabus?—lt is overloaded. There are too many subjects, and there is too much required in certain subjects. That makes for dissipation of the energy of both teacher and pupil and neglect of the essentials. 37. Is not the syllabus largely suggestive? —It is difficult to draw the line between what is suggestive and what is imperative in the syllabus. 38. What do you mean by "essentials"? —Reading, writing, arithmetic, spelling, composition, geography, history, and, say, drawing. 39. Does history embrace civics? —Yes. 40. Do you think it would be a wise policy to discontinue manual instruction in connection with the primary schools entirely ?—No, because some of those subjects can be regarded as methods of teaching branches of what I regard as the essential subjects. Paper-work, for example, is useful in drawing, and brushwork is really a branch of drawing. Physical measurements is useful in teaching parts of arithmetic. 41. I understand you wish to omit certain subjects from the syllabus in order to get greater concentration on what you regard as the essentials? —That is so. 42.- Mr. Pirani.] How many schools are there in this district?—l should say about one hundred and seventy. 43. Do you know in how many schools they take cookery and woodwork? —I do not. 44. The return shows that cookery is taught in thirteen and woodwork in fourteen. Is the standard of education in this district very much higher than in other districts ?—I do not know. 45. Do you not think it ought to be, if your contention is correct that the absence of these classes in so many schools enables greater concentration ? —We have possibly a greater proportion of sole-teacher schools in Southland than you have, say, in Wanganui. I do not know that that is the case. 46. Do you know the proportion?-—No. 47. Mr. Davidson.] You spoke of the necessity for simplifying the syllabus in connection with the sole-teacher schools. Could not that simplification be brought about if the Inspector had power to approve of a simple scheme of work drawn up by the teacher? —I think so. 48. What distance is your school from Invercargill? —Seventeen miles." 49. At what time do your children leave home in. order to travel to Invercargill for manual instruction? —At 11.45 a.m. 50. At what time do they arrive home?— The train gets back at 6 p.m. They arrive home at various times up to 6.30.
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51. Have you had any objections from parents to that arrangement?— Yes, they object to their having so long a day. They object to their going away from their own school for primary instruction, and to train travelling in promiscuous company. 52. For twenty weeks your children are absent from their own school for a full half-day a week?— Yes. 53. You suggested that the subject of physical measurements should be taken as part of the ordinary work in the teaching of arithmetic? —Yes, and geography. 54. Do you, then, object to the present method of payment for that subject of capitation grant?— Yes, I do. 55. Do you think it adds considerably to the clerical work of the teachers and officials of the Education Board? —It adds to the clerical work of the teachers. 56. If it were necessary 7 that some payment should be made for the teaching of physical measurements, in what form would you suggest it should be made? —The Education Board should receive a subsidy which should be utilized for paying for apparatus and material required. 57. What manual work do you take in your classes—Standard V?—Brushwork, and in Standard IV the same. 58. Do you think it necessary that payment should be made by capitation for that subject? - —No, I think the material could be very 7 well supplied in bulk by the Board. 59. Do you think that would tend to lessen the clerical work of the teacher and would make for economy? —Yes, I do not see that there would be any greater cost. 60. Mr. Hogben.] You believe in the teaching of French as an optional subject?— Yes. 61. Suppose a student comes here from another country —from a school where Spanish is taken—would you allow him to substitute Spanish for French as an optional subject if he wished? —No, Ido not think so. What I was speaking about was the addition of another subject to the examination. 62. You would not thereby add to the compulsory subjects?— No. 63. With regard to science : suppose in connection with the D examination any teacher who had a school garden were allowed to take his children through an elementary course in agriculture and that were allowed to count as practical work, would that not overcome the difficulty considerably?—l suppose so. 64. Are you aw 7 are that is what is recognized already?— No. That would limit him to agriculture, would it not? 65. We are speaking of country teachers, so that a country teacher could qualify in one way by taking agriculture ? —Yes. 66. Do you think any part of a science can be taught without taking practical work?—No, not really. 67. Then, what is the good of its being taught purely from a book? —I do not set any great store on the science work required for the D examination. 68. Do you think we might do without science in a teacher? —Not entirely, but in some schools he has really very little use for it. 69. You think a teacher might leave his children without training their observation at all? —No. 70. Can he train the observation otherwise than by scientific methods?—l do not suppose he could do it successfully, although one might train oneself. 71. Do you think the better way to do it would be to make provision, whatever it costs within reason, for those people to get that training under scientific methods?—lf provision is made for it I have no objection whatever. 72. Is that not the solution rather than making the regulations easier? —Yes, if money could be expended in that w r ay I would suggest that as a remedy. 73. You would eliminate agriculture and woodwork. Is it not important that we should train all the powers of the children at the ages at which they can be trained? —Yes. 74. If you cut out woodwork, what subject in the syllabus is there by which you can train the constructive powers at the ages of from twelve to fourteen?—l cannot say. 75. Does not woodwork train those powers and activities —the power of making things? —Could not those powers be better trained after the primary-school course is finished ? I should think so myself. 76. I was referring to training between the ages of twelve and fourteen? —I think that too early. 77. The Chairm.an.] Having regard to the fact that such a large proportion of the children leave school before reaching the Sixth Standard, should we not make more useful citizens of them if they were more thoroughly grounded in what you regard as the primary subjects of education? —Yes, I think so. Ellen Lumsden Birss examined on oath. (No. 62.) 1. The Chairman.] What position do you hold? —I am a teacher in the Middle School, Invercargill. I have been engaged in teaching for twenty-nine years. I was previously a teacher in the Winton School, and before that I was a pupil-teacher. 2. Have you a statement to make?— Yes. As regards the position of women in large town schools the women teachers of the Dominion feel that they- have a grievance, and for some years they have been unanimous in endeavouring to have it removed. It has been before institutes, has come up yearly at the annual conference, and though at first the sympathy of the majority of the male teachers was somewhat weak, yet at the last conference they practically unanimously carried the remit brought forward by the women teachers. The Commission which toured the Dominion some years ago removed the injustice suffered by women teachers in the country, when for doing exactly the same work they were paid at a lower rate, but at the same time, as the
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result of their investigations, the Department did away with the position of mistress and gave the Education Boards power to appoint a female teacher first, second, or third assistant at their 'pleasure. In every large school there is a head teacher who organizes and controls the staff; there is an infant department in which are assembled usually from one-third to three-eighths of the total number of children on the school roll, and the rest of the school is divided into standards presided over by one assistant with, in some cases, a pupil-teacher to help, or probationer, according to the size of the standard. The teacher in charge of the infant department is always a woman, usually one of long experience, and no male teacher has been found brave enough to undertake this work. Women teach all standards from the First to the Sixth; we have women sole teachers of country schools, women in schools of Grade &, and a woman in charge of Grade 6 school, whose, reports are as good as those of any male teacher. In Taranaki we have a woman in charge of a school of over 300 doing excellent work. Thus, to a certain extent, male and female assistants have been proved equal in any grade of school. That so far women have not proved in New Zealand capable of controlling schools of 900 to 1,000 is simply because they have not had the chance. But in every large school there is a special place where women are required, and that is in the infant department—one of the most important departments of the school. Her work there is different to that of any other assistant; she has to show powers of organization not required by any other member except the head teacher : in a word, she is the head teacher of the younger children, and her helpers are young pupil-teachers of little experience, or junior assistants, or probationers. Every head teacher recognizes theoretically the value of the work done by the female in charge of this department, and the days, I trust, are gone by when it was thought that any one was fit to teach little ones. It is now believed that you cannot have too capable a person for this place. At a conference I attended a leading educationalist said, "We want the best head teacher possible for the school, and we want the best woman teacher for our infant department, and the school will do well." The proportion of women teachers to men teachers is very great, and if the best women are to be induced to enter the profession and to qualify for taking charge of an infant department you must offer them a fitting position as a reward. It should not be possible, as has happened in some districts, that women in control of large departments should see placed above them young men of a few years' experience (in some cases their own pupil-teacher) whose work is the teaching of a single standard. The majority of the Education Boards (with the exception of Auckland and Otago) rank the woman in charge of the infant department third in rank; the two last-named districts rank her fourth on the staff. From being next to the head teacher in those districts she was disrated to the fourth position. The work demanded of her is exactly the same as in former days : she still in nearly every case manages the infant department, trains pupil-teachers or probationers, takes the senior girls' sewing, is responsible for the sewing of the school, and is supposed to exercise control of the senior girls in the playground. Why the worth of their work has never been recognized is fairly easy of explanation. In the first place no head teacher or Inspector, or member of Education Board or School Committee, has ever done the work, so practically they are unable to value it. Only an intelligent company of mothers could assess it. In the second place, the majority of our female teachers in charge of this department say very little about their work : where there is little knowledge there is little sympathy, and, finding that their difficulties are only partially understood and greatly underrated, they keep silence. ■ In these days, when the moral evil is in our midst and when at least half of the children attending our schools are girls, it is surely right that everything that will tend to raise the moral tone of a school should be sought for, and among these I do not place least the influence of its women teachers. Show by the position you place her in that you value so lightly the power that she exerts for righteousness and you cripple and destroy that power. The community and the children are as well aware as Education Boards of the value which is placed upon the services of its best and most faithful women teachers, and I sincerely hope that our weary struggle to obtain a just recognition of our services will be accomplished by means of this Commission, and that under a colonial scale of salaries women doing the same work in every part of the Dominion will receive equal rank and equal pay, and that as the result of your investigations you will be able to show that the women who manage large infant departments are both a commercial and a moral asset that Education Boards should be recommended to value more justly. As regards the subject of arithmetic in Standards I, 11, and 111, the majority of teachers of-these standards feel that the work is unequally distributed, and that a better division could be obtained. In Standard I four simple rules are supposed to be taught, using only small numbers (the simple rules extending only up to the 6 table), and in addition problems. As a matter of fact, every teacher who works for the future does not confine the children to the small numbers demanded, and usually the First Standard is taken up to 12 table. Problems can be taught to Standard I, but the result is not worth the expenditure, and consequently quite a large proportion of head teachers refuse to ask problems from any standard below 111, requiring the assistants rather to obtain mental accuracy by learning tables thoroughly and using them in fairly difficult sums. Standard II takes the four simple rules again applied to larger numbers, division up to 20, and the four compound rules, also problems. Unless the children are extremely well prepared in Standard I doing work beyond that required by the syllabus, the work of Standard II would be too heavy, and would take up too large a part of the school time. Standard 111 has a breathing-space to assimilate what has been learnt; nothing particularly new is asked from them, only more difficult work in the aforementioned rules, and, of course, problems. Those who have had experience in teaching arithmetic in the lower standards are convinced that written problems should not be required from Standards I and 11, only mental ones; that these are the standards where tables should be thoroughly learnt and applied to large numbers to test the mental accuracy of the pupils. A child is not (at this stage) half as wearied working n fair-sized sum as it is in confronting a problem with its reason-
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ing-powers so largely undeveloped. If the multiplication and addition tables up to 12 were taught in Standard I with corresponding sums (written problems dropped), subtraction and division in Standard II with the two former rules and long multiplication, and, of course, in both standards mental arithmetic and mental problems (easy), this would form a good foundation for the teaching-of the compound rules in Standard 111. Children in Standard 111 would thus have the pleasure of beginning entirely new work, and the other standards, relieved of an excessive burden, would show greater proficiency in mental accuracy. I. think too little attention is paid ,to school hygiene. 1 think that at least once ever} 7 year each school should be taken in charge by the Health Department and thoroughly disinfected. We usually wait till an epidemic comes and then the cleaning is begun. There should be an inspection of our school furniture, and if it is unsuitable it should be at once condemned and got rid of. The Education Board, to most prayers for better seating accommodation, has no funds; there must be money in the Treasury, or how can the large grants for manual work be obtained? Better than all the paper-folding, brushwork, and plasticine which is so freely given would be comfortable seats w 7 ith backs to them where our little ones could, sit in comfort. The older boys and girls in secondary schools have individual desks and easy seats; too many little ones in primary schools sit on narrow backless forms the whole day, because the Education Dey>artment has no funds, or because educational authorities have not realized the necessity of comfortable seats. Again, we have large infantrooms, but none have class-rooms attached. Wherever a large infant-room is built a class-room is not a luxury (like brushwork, plasticine, or cardboard modelling) — it is a necessity, for unless it is provided much of the teaching has to be done in cold lobbies hung (in our climate) with dripping coats. These are three things that I think the Commission might recommend to the Department to be forwarded to all Education Boards : (I) Schools should be thoroughly disinfected every year; (2) comfortable seats with backs to them should be provided for at least every child of tender years; (3) new infant-rooms should have at least one class-room to which classes may be taken from the main room and taught. The great drawback to education in Southland has been the want of a teaching training-room or school of instruction. It is too early yet to feel much benefit from the students who have attended the Training College : in any case, they form but a small proportion of the whole. The only instruction for years that the majority of our young teachers has had has been in the infant-rooms or by aiding an assistant in a standard class, where their work was almost purely mechanical, and from this they have gone to take charge of country schools. A room in one of the large schools with a thoroughly competent instructor one would think could have been managed, but again want of funds proved a bar to progress. One would think that it was the duty- of the Department to recognize that a large and important district the size of Southland, with its lack of training-school, must suffer in educational equipment; and that they recognize this is shown by the remarkable generosity w-ith which training-classes have been organized for teaching brushwork, paper-folding, cardboard modelling, physical measurements, gardening, grafting, and pruning; and the only thing that would have been of incalculable value to the majority of untrained teachers, a school for teaching them the best methods of education (so that they might have learnt other than by their failures), this it has been impossible to obtian. After all, what is wanted is better training to prepare our young teachers for their work, and no matter what the cost it will be well spent. You cannot prepare a perfect syllabus, but you can make such arrangements that no teacher who has not graded in a school of instruction and given proof of capability to teach shall be given an appointment. 3. Mr. Wells.} With regard to this vexed question of the position held by ladies, you recognize that ladies already receive preferential treatment in that certain positions must be held by them : that is to say, that one of the first three positions must be held by a lady teacher ? — You can hardly call that preferential treatment —giving one. 4. Surely it is earmarking one of the best positions in the school. That safeguard is not given to men? —I do not consider it preferential treatment. As you know, you say that certain positions must be filled by men : for instance, it is recognized that first assistants in all large schools must be men. Is it safeguarding our interests if you simply say- the Education Boards must take a woman in the first three? 5. There is nothing in the law to prevent a lady from holding the position of first assistant? —Perhaps not in the law, but the Education Boards will not do it. 6. The Education Boards, and the jSchool Committees also, in your experience, are anxious to do their utmost for the advancement of education in the districts ? —Y'es. 7. Then if men are appointed to the post of second assistant, is it not because it is really believed that the best interests of the schools are served by men being employed in such positions ? —I think what is done is to a very large extent due to ignorance of the work of second assistants, male or female. In the large schools, if you give the position of second assistant to a man it is only a temporary position. He only holds it-until he can get his degree, or as a stepping-stone to something else. When a woman takes it it is usually as a reward for her life's work. 8. Is it not a fact that the great majority of lady teachers who enter the service only remain until they get married? Do you know that 80 per cent, leave before they reach the retiring-age? —Yes, but then the remaining 20 per cent, have the greater right to be rewarded, have they not? 9. The majority of the men enter the profession as a life work?— Yes. 10. Do you know about the proportion of men and women offering for the service?—l understand it is about three women to one man. 11. Is it not as great as ten girls to one boy?—lt might be. I cannot say. 12. Evidently, then, under the present conditions the teaching profession is not offering many inducements to boys? —Evidently it is not a congenial profession to men. 13. Do you think, then, it would be wise to take away from the men any of the positions open to them, in the higher grades? —We just bring evidence to show that our work deserves, a certain position, and then it is for you to decide.
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14. What salary can a woman attain to at present under the Southland Board? —From £210 to £240 : that is the largest. 15. What other callings are there open to women where they can obtain as much remuneration ? —ln large dressmaking establishments a woman can get £200 and over. 16. Is superannuation provided for her at the finish? What superannuation- would a teacher retire with who enjoys that salary?— About £120 if she stays. 17. Can you think of any profession or calling in the Dominion in which a woman can get such a salary- in addition to a superannuation allowance of £120 on her retirement? —I know of a confidential clerk in a mercantile firm who gets £200 a year and a bonus of £20 a year in addition. What is to prevent her from expending that £20 a year in insuring her life? We have to pay for superannuation out of our salary. 18. Do you not know it is subsidized by the Government? —The question is, Is the work worth what we are paid for it ? That seems to me to be the main point, I hold that the more responsible positions should be thrown open to women teachers. 19. Do you not think positions carrying from £180 to £210 a year are good positions?— There are very few positions at that pay. 20. Mr. Kirk.] Granting that as between men and women there should be equal pay for equal work, is there any economic question that should be taken into consideration as affecting the employment of men and women ?—There is always the question that men have wives and families to support, but as against that there are quite a number of women teachers who have relatives to support. Besides, you do not pay male teachers according to the size of their families. There are head teachers in Otago who have no families. 21. You admit it is necessary to provide a sufficient salary for a man to keep a wife and family? —Certainly, but not many second assistants are married men. As a rule, it is only used as a stepping-stone to some other position. 22. You consider schools should be fumigated once a year. Would it not be as well to fumigate them once a quarter ?—Yes, but it seems rather drastic. 23. Do you approve of the boys and girls right through the primary schools being taught together in the same classes ?—I should say, from eleven years onwards they should be separated. 24. Mr. Poland.] What is the highest salary paid to a woman under the Southland Board? —I believe there is one at £270, with residence. 25. Mr. Pirani.] Do you not think it would be a fair thing that the salary of a second assistant at least should be given to the infant-teacher I —That is what is done here. 26. And you are asking for further consideration than that? —I am here to plead the cause of the women in the other districts : that that should be made general, 27. Have you given any consideration to the system of classification of teachers as it is in force in other districts of New Zealand? —No. 28. Do you think it would be a fair thing that promotion of women teachers should be by a system in which service, ability 7, and educational standing should all be taken into consideration, and that it should not be at the whim of the School Committees and Education Boards?— Certainly. 29. What sort of desks are used in your school? —They are large desks —seven or eight in each. 30. You do not have single desks-? —The educational authorities do not believe in them : they say they have been a failure in other districts. And there is also the want of funds. I brought the matter before the Inspector only the other day, and he said if I made a request for the single desks he would certainly refuse to recommend them. I thought, therefore, I had better bring it before the Commission. 31. Do you think it has anything to do with the accommodation in the schools?—l do not think so. There is a large infant school built here, and there are no single desks or anything like that. 32. Would you be in favour, if such a system of promotion as I have referred to were in force, of men being put into competition with women for the different positions according to their ability to do the work? —I certainly think so. 33. Mr. Davidson.] Do you object to open competition between the sexes under the present conditions? —Yes. 34. You also object to the safeguards provided by- the Department as being insufficient?— Yes, they have proved so. 35. What is it exactly that the women ask as regards salary? —They ask that the salary allotted to the second assistant, or a salary equivalent to that, should be paid to the first woman on the staff. 36. Have you ever known in Southland of a case of a woman who has been in charge of a third-grade school being deprived of her position when the attendance at the school has increased to thirty-six, thus making it a fourth-grade school? —Not in Southland. As long as a woman does good work she is never superseded. 37. Have you ever known of such a case in any other district?—l understand there have been such cases in Otago and Canterbury. 38. Have you any suggestion to offer for remedying that evil? —Only by a recommendation from the Commission that as long as a woman is doing good work in a school, if the school is raised to a higher grade, she should not be deprived of her position. 39. Suppose the school rises to a Grade 5 or 6 school, do you think the same principle should apply?— Yes. 40. Suppose it rose to Grade 8, would you still retain a woman at the head of the school? If she had worked it up to that I should be very sorry to see her disrated.
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41. Would you deprive the Education Board of the right to transfer a woman who in their opinion was unable to perform the duties of head of a Grade 8 school? —Certainly not. The Board should have the right to transfer any teacher whom they consider incompetent, but the incompetency must be proved. 42. Mr: Hogben.] I understand it is possible that one of the reasons why- you do not have single desks in your schools is that there is not sufficient floor-space?— No. We had an educational -authority from Sydney, and he said that the single desks would occupy no more room. 43. If you could not get single desks, would you be satisfied with double desks? —Yes, anything that would be comfortable for the children to sit in. 44. Are you aware that the double desk is the most economical of floor-space?— Yes. 45. The Chairman.] I understand the position you take up is not exactly that which Mr. Davidson took. Do you think that a teacher, so long as she conducts her class and fulfils her duties to the satisfaction of the Inspectors, should be continued in that position"?—l certainly see no reason why she should not. 46. Would it surprise you to know that woman in certain employments—in dressmaking, for instance —earn as much as from £400 to £500 a year in the large establishments ?—I know that. 47. Have you any acquaintance with kindergarten instruction?— Yes, the lower room in our school is a kindergarten. 48. Would you approve of a kindergarten class being attached to the primary-school course ? —I think it would be very nice if the children came from four to six years of age. 49. Would it not be more advantageous to keep them in the kindergarten department of the primary schools from four to six, and then pass them into the standards? —There must be kindergarten methods. 50. Would it satisfy you if paragraph (3) of the Second Schedule of the Act of 1908 were altered to read " one of the first two assistants," instead of " one of the first three assistants," shall be a woman? —Yes, that would give satisfaction. That is what we have been asking for. Joseph Hunter examined on oath. (No. 63.) 1. The Chairman.]. What is your position?—l am principal of the Gore High School. lam a Master of Arts of the New- Zealand University. I entered the service of the Otago Education Board as a pupil-teacher eighteen years ago, and went through the Training College course. I have been a teacher under the Otago Education Board, the Waitaki High School Board, and the Taranaki Education Board. 2. Do you wish to make any statement in regard to the subject-matter of our Commission?— Yes. I wish first to refer to the training of secondary-school teachers. Speaking generally, I am of opinion that teachers in secondary schools should show evidence of having received some teacher-training. Still, I believe that a teacher's personality and disposition count for far more than any training he may receive. Some may go through a complete course of training and yet be comparative failures as teachers. On the other hand, I have known university graduates entering into secondary work without any training and proving eminently successful. Still, teacher-training is a splendid preparation for secondary as well as primary work. lam of opinion that the teachers of the lowest forms of secondary schools should have had not only training, but also some experience as primary-school teachers. Pupils entering the secondary school generally find a great difference from what they have been used to in the primary school. So many new subjects confront them, the methods of teaching are necessarily somewhat different, they have all of a sudden to rely so much more upon their own efforts, that they are bewildered and often acquire a hearty dislike for their work. Now, a teacher w 7 ith primary-school experience can make the transition from primary to secondary school methods more gradual. He understands the capacity of the pupils with whom he is called to deal, and finds his training in primary work an immense advantage. The pupils also reap the benefit. Primary-school experience also furnishes an admirable training in the art of keeping discipline and control. In my opinion, the syllabus is a good one. I think, however, that a good deal of the mathematical geography could be deleted, and the time spent in furnishing a better knowledge of political geography. I am met with great ignorance of even important centres in the commercial world. A knowledge of the geography of the world as it teaches man in commerce, manufacture, travel, and international interests is of vast importance, but is largely neglected. The mathematical geography could well be left for the secondary schools. I find also a want of accuracy in arithmetic and English composition. Pupils can express themselves freely enough, but they seem to have supreme contempt for such trifling details as correct spelling, punctuation, and observance of the simple rules of grammar. There should be more time for the teaching of history and civics. I consider that, seeing that all our secondary schools are now under the control of the Education Department, giving uniformity of control, there should also be uniformity in the matter of finance. Some schools can command a very much larger income than others, with the result that these latter cannot hope to compete with them in the way of school buildings, equipment, and staff. The number of pupils on the roll may be the same, and yet the facilities for progress are much greater in one school than in another. This, in my opinion, is unfair. I do not propose that there should be a redistribution of endowments, nor that the revenue from these endowments should be vested in the central Department for distribution among the various secondary schools. lam in favour of permitting the -more-favoured schools to retain their present advantages. But there should be a levelling up, The less-favoured schools should receive help direct from the Department to enable them to take their place fairly with the other schools. They have to compete with them without handicap. Then it is only fair that all should start with the same advan-
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tages. I am in favour of reducing the number of education districts in the Dominion. I think thirteen too many. Still, lam inclined to view with disfavour the proposal to place the control of primary, secondary, technical education in the hands of the one Board. I would abolish School Committees, and in their place appoint bodies of men, call them " School Boards," if you _ will, to control all the schools in their districts. For example, all the schools in Invercargill, being uniform in nature, and similar in that they contain pupils working under the same conditions, could be grouped together and placed under the control of a town School Board—such Board, of course, to be under the jurisdiction of the controlling body of the larger education district and of the central Department. Then, another School Board could be set up, say, at Queenstown, to control all the small schools of the Lakes District, and so on. I believe that the establishment of such School Boards would make it possible to avoid the existing evils of control by Committees —very evident, especially in our country districts —and at the same time would provide for local control, which I think is a very necessary and desirable condition. I would favour the proposal to centralize the inspectorate, and thus pave the way for a Dominion scheme of promotion for teachers. 3. Mr. Wells.] Can you give us any idea of the length of the training you would recommend for secondary-school teachers ? —I consider that a secondary-school teacher should have as much training as a primary teacher. The training could be specialized to deal with the work the teacher is going to cope with in the secondary schools. It might be a very good idea to have a training college solely for the training of secondary-school teachers. 4. You do not think that training could be undertaken at the existing training colleges?— —Not as fully as it might be, because they train there essentially for the primary-school work. 5. Do you think one training college would be sufficient for the Dominion? —Yes, for present needs. 6. Can you make any comparison of the boys you are getting now from the Sixth Standard with those of some ten years ago ? —I was a primary-school teacher myself until three years ago, so I am not in a position to make the comparison. 7. You spoke of reducing the number of Education Boards : have you thought at all as to the number there might be? —I think that the Dominion, if it is to be divided up at all, could well be divided into four districts —two for the North Island and two for the South Island; but I would leave the local control in the hands of the local men. For example, in the case of my own school, I would object very much to see the control taken from the local Board of Governors. 8. Do you think if the Dominion were divided into four districts there would be fairer facilities for the promotion of teachers? —Yes, and it would be still fairer if all promotions were made from the central Department. 9. Do you mean on a Dominion grading scheme?— Yes; I mentioned I was in favour of the inspectorate being centralized. 10. I take it your idea is that if the Dominion is divided into four education districts, and if the Chief Inspectors from these districts could come into close touch with one another, it would be possible to arrive at a uniform system of grading of teachers in these four districts? —That is my idea. 11. Do you think there is any tendency to overdo examinations in our schools? —I am a believer in examinations, not as an end but as a means to an end. I believe they are absolutelynecessary in order to test not only the work of the children, but the work of the teachers. I would do away with the scholarship examinations, and devote the money given to scholarships to provide boarding-allowances for children coming in from the country. 12. Would you make the town pupils any allowance to cover the cost of their books in the event of doing away with the scholarships?— Yes, I think that would be only fair, as that would put them on the same footing as the country pupils. 13. Do you think that the work of the technical day school and the work of the high school might be taken together in the smaller towns? —Most certainly. Ido not think there is any need for the two schools in the small towns. 14. You think that would make for increased efficiency? —Yes. 15. What would you consider a small town? —Five thousand people. 16. What is your opinion as to the value of the manual work in our schools, referring more particularly to the woodwork and cookery?—So far as cookery is concerned, I do not think there is a more admirable training for girls. I think every boy ought to have a knowledge of the use of tools. I believe a great deal of our woodwork, though, is lost time. 17. Why? —Because quite a number of boys never get beyond the stage of making_shavings. 18. Is that your experience? —Yes. If there was some means of just confining the boys who show an aptitude for the work to this work, then the money would be well spent. 19. You do not think they get a valuable training in habits of exactitude? —Certainly they do. 20. Do you think that woodwork would give them that training more perhaps than any other subject in the schools? —Woodwork associated with drawing, yes. 21. That is an important point? —Yes.' 22. Mr. Kirk.] Is there time for the teaching of such subjects as shorthand and typewriting in the secondary schools? —In schools such as mine there is a demand for it, and in the absence of a technical school we have to give it. We can usually make two courses. I eliminate Latin and possibly French, although'l compel my commercial class to take French. 23. Do I understand that that can only be done at a sacrifice of other subjects m the general courS6 ?_l would not say that, because boys going in for a commercial course do not want the other subject.
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24. What have you to say on the question of home-work ? —Speaking from the point of view of a secondary-school teacher, I say that home-work is absolutely necessary, and it also has the effect of making the boys and girls more self-dependent, and it also keeps them off the streets at night. - 25. And as to the primary schools? —I think very little should be indulged in. I think if "the boys and girls in the primary schools carry out efficiently five hours' work a day they have done quite enough. 26. Mr. Poland.] You do not approve of the primary-school children putting in their spare time on the streets or at picture-shows?—No, I would rather give them home-work. 27. Have you an agricultural course at your school?—I am sorry to say we have not. I attempted to start one this year. We had a course completely drawn up, and to my chagrin only three came forward to take it, and ours is an agricultural district. 28. But you do intend to persevere with it? —Yes. 29. You referred to the evils of control by School Committees which are so manifest : what evils did you refer to?— Generally, in small country places there is one man who is the authority —educational and otherwise —in that place. You send a young lady as sole teacher to that place, and if she does not hit it off with that man her life is made somewhat of a misery, and I think in a case of that sort it would be a godsend to the teacher at least to have no Committee at all. I am not referring to the town Committees, because usually on the town Committees you have men of sense and business acumen. 30. What control does a School Committee exercise over a teacher ?—lt has no absolute control, yet in the social life of the teacher in that place things can be made so warm. 31. That depends on the class of teacher selected? —Yes, and the great danger is that you get a very inferior class in the small country places. 32. You referred to the want of uniformity in regard to the finance of secondary schools — in what particular direction?— Such schools as mine are wholly dependent on the capitation earned from free-place pupils attending the school. Other schools are liberally endowed, and though they may have the same roll number as I have, yet they have far more money at their disposal for school-equipment and payment of staff, and so on. They can afford to give more liberal salaries, and then if we do not get as good men we cannot cope with them. 33. Mr. Pirani.] How many pupils have you? —150; and our capitation is £12 10s. per pupil. I suppose my average for the year would work out between 135 and 140, because we always have boys drifting off to jobs. 34. Say you receive £1,600 : ought that not to provide salaries on a fairly liberal scale? — Yes, if we could use it all for salaries; but at Gore quite a large sum is used for equipping the school. 35. Is any sum worth mentioning raised voluntarily outside the free-place money? —I understand £120 has been raised. 36. With the subsidy that will make £240?— Yes. 37. Do you think it would be a reasonable thing to levy special taxation or special contributions on the local bodies to assist the high schools? —No, I do not think so. I think education is a national concern, and therefore the expenditure should be borne by the national exchequer. 38. Do } 7 ou not think that education is more an individual concern that a national concern —that the parent and the child are more concerned in getting a good education than the State is in them being educated? —I doubt that. I think children, far from wanting education, have to be forced to have it. 39. Do you not think that in many cases we are forcing education on children who would be better doing something else?— True, but where are we to draw the line? 40. Do you not think it would be a proper thing, where you have a purely scholastic course in a school, that a higher percentage of marks should be asked for from the pupils as a qualification for the free place?— There, again, we are cutting into an advantage of a free education. 41. Do you think it is an advantage for a child that shows no special aptitude to advance further with a scholastic education to spend two years at a high school? —Not in a scholastic course. 42. Then, do you not think it would be much better if the high schools and the technical schools were amalgamated, and some "further attempt were made to discover the aptitude of the pupils for the course they were to be given in the secondary school?— Yes. Only we have to meet this problem, that quite a number of our ablest men have not shown any great aptitude at school. 43. Probably if they had remained at school they never would have been able?— But they might have been more efficient if they had received the benefit of a secondary education. 44. Take, for instance, matriculation : do you not think that before a candidate should be allowed to go to your school and take the matriculation course he should on leaving fhe Sixth Standard show some greater qualification than the ordinary proficiency pass?— Yes. 45. How long would it take the average student who had an ordinary proficiency pass to matriculate?— Four years. 46. Then, do you think it is a proper thing for the State to pay for the tuition of a pupil for twelve months or two years only, and then, have'the child taken away by the parents? I believe a good deal of money is wasted by pupils not taking full advantage of the opportunities given to them. _ 47 Do you think something further might be done in showing parents the advantage of their children taking a vocational course instead of a scholastic course?—l think parents ought always to be interviewed when the pupils are enrolled as to the course they are to take. I make a point of that, and I was bitterly disappointed to find that only three parents offered to take the rural course.
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48. If it was made more difficult for a pupil to take a course he is not fitted for, do you not think there would be more chance of his being directed to the course he is fitted for ?—Possibly •"-they would not take any course. I think they would go away altogether. 49. In regard to compulsory continuation classes in the evenings for boys and in the afternoons for girls, do you think it is advisable to introduce that system in your district? —Yes. We have a good number attending the continuation classes now. Quite a number of the lads have proficiency certificates, but they have not had an opportunity to go to a secondary school. I would be greatly- in favour of exercising the compulsory clauses of the Act in my district. 50. Mr. Thomson.] You said you believed in a central inspectorate : would you state your objection to the present system? —My only idea for the centralization of the inspectorate is to get a Dominion scheme of promotion for teachers. At the present time a teacher in a small district has very little chance of getting out of that district into a larger district by promotion, and I maintain that if the inspectorate were centralized and the Inspectors were sent not to one district, but to districts in turn, then the teachers' qualifications would have to be brought under review with regard to the positions throughout the whole Dominion, and not in his own district only. 51. Do you think if there was a frequent change of Inspectors throughout the various districts in New Zealand that the Inspectors would get that close sympathy which grows up between an Inspector and teacher under the present system?— They would lose that, certainly. But as I said before, my only object in centralizing the inspectorate is to provide for a Dominion scheme of promotion of teachers, and at the present time I cannot see how we are going to do it unless by the method I have suggested. 52. Are you aware that in connection with the scheme in operation in New South Wales, under which promotions are made, political influence is brought to bear? —I am not. I do not see why it should be. 53. And ycu think by centralizing the inspectorate you would be able to get a Dominion scheme for the promotion of teachers? —Yes. 54. Mr. Davidson.] Do you not think such a scheme would also lead to a uniform interpretation of the syllabus?-—Yes. 55. And would lead to a true nationalization of our system? —Yes, it would place, the national system on a uniform basis. 56. Have you read or studied the latest scheme of promotion in Victoria? —No. 57. You spoke about the necessity- of training the school-teachers in the methods of treatment of the various subjects dealt with in our training colleges. .Do you not think the same methods of treatment should apply to the teaching of subjects in the secondary schools?—To a certain extent, but there they are dealing with a different class of pupil. When they are training in the primary-school subjects they are training to teach children from four to twelve or thirteen years of age. In the secondary schools they have to deal with lads of from fourteen to nineteen years of age, and that makes a great difference. 58. Does not that difference relate more to the methods of discipline and control? —In the secondary schools we can allow more for the individuality- of the pupil than in the primary schools, and therefore the methods of teaching do not require to be so intense as in the primary schools. 59. Take the subject of English : would not the best methods of treatment of that subject in, say, the fifth and Sixth Standards apply equally to the secondary school? —Yes, certainly. 60. Then, given a trained teacher who has distinguished himself in the method in our training colleges, and who also has considerable literary- attainment, do you not think that teacher should have an opportunity of entering our secondary schools? —Most certainly. 61. Do you think it would be a good thing if the same controlling body had under its charge the primary and secondary schools within a district ?—I am not averse to that so long as you do not do away with local control. 62. Have you ever considered the desirability of consolidating many of our unnecessary small country schools ?—I think we could very well dispense with a great number of our small country schools and bring them together into a more fully equipped and staffed central school. The difficulty, of course, is the question of conveyance. Conveyance of boys and girls by train I do not consider an ideal method of-going to school. 63. Under proper supervision would that not be much better than having the children taught inefficiently- at a small school ?—I am not sufficiently conversant with the localities so far as the primary schools are concerned to answer that question. 64. Mr. Hogben.] As to the training for secondary teachers, do you not think it is equallydesirable that secondary teachers should make some study of child-life by observation of children from the early stages?— Most certainly. 65. Would not that observation of young children be well taken in the normal school attached to the training college?—-Yes. 66. Then should not they study the same history of education as the other teachers study? — Yes. 67. Is there anything else left really for them to do but to get the special practice and the special observation of secondary-school methods ?—Yes, they want to be able to get an insight into the method of teaching those subjects which are given in the secondary schools. 68. Suppose they took the ordinary course that a primary-school teacher takes at the training college, do you think we could avoid the question of special training colleges for secondary teachers by picking out good teachers in secondary subjects and allowing our trainees to go and see them teach?— That is, to give them -access to our secondary schools: yes, that would meet the difficulty.
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69. The Seeing that 40 per cent, of our children never pass through the Sixth Standard, and nearly 20 per cent, never reach the Fourth, is it not very necessary that the essentials of primary education should be taught to that large number who go out of the schools? —Yes. 70. Would you regard shorthand and typewriting as mechanical arts to a large extent? — Yes. 71. Seeing that your school is situated in one of the richest agricultural districts of New Zealand, would not the tendency of teaching those subjects necessarily be to increase the number of clerks, and will they not naturally gravitate to the towns?— Yes; but as there is a great demand for shorthand and book-keeping we must cater for that demand. James Hendry examined on oath. (No. 64.) 1. The Chairman.] What is your position?—l am Chief Inspector under the Southland Education Board, and I have held that position for twenty-five years and a half. Before that I was teaching for ten years and a half under the Otago Education Board, and for two years I was in the Dunedin High School. 2. Have you any statement to make in regard to the subject-matter of our Commission? — Yes. I desire in the first place to invite the Commission's attention to a matter which for some time past has been causing my Board such grave concern that it has recently proposed a some-w-hat heroic measure for dealing with it—l refer to the insufficiency of the supply of teachers for the more poorly paid positions in the gift of the Board, and especially for positions in remote country districts. Month after month advertisements inviting applications for such posts have failed to elicit response from suitable candidates, until it has now become abundantly apparent that the prospects of teaching in the backblocks have no attractions for young people whose ability is more than moderate. And it is not altogether the small remuneration that is responsible for this condition, since positions in urban and semi-urban schools carrying the same salary are fairly eagerly sought for. The true explanation, to my mind, is to be found in the conditions of life in a backblocks school. The position is undoubtedly one of considerable hardship and difficulty, it seriously restricts social intercourse of an elevating character, while it throws the teacher —almost necessarily very young and very inexperienced—on his own resources in dealing with the difficulties incidental to his work. In short, it presents problems and conditions to which the assistant teacher drawing an equal salary is an entire stranger. Not only has the latter the great advantage of a more congenial environment, but also he is under the supervision of a competent head teacher whose counsel, help, and protection are always available. It is doubtless impossible to render the conditions of the unaided teacher in a remote country school ideally attractive, but I am convinced that until such positions carry salaries adequate to the work and circumstances, the difficulty which Boards are finding in satisfactorily filling them will not be relieved. Statistics as to the number of uncertificated teachers make somewhat dismal reading. In March of this year there were in the service of this Board 110 teachers who had not received classification. Of this number, twenty-nine had fully qualified at the last departmental examination, but had not, on account of their youth or for other reasons, received their parchments. At present, therefore, about 30 per cent, of the adult teachers in this Board's service are uncertificated. Of the 110 teachers unclassed in March, no fewer than seventy-seven, or 70 per cent, of the whole, were without pupil-teacher or probationer experience when they received their first appointment under this Board. It should not be matter for surprise that many of these young people, by reason of imperfect education and lack of experience in the art of teaching, fail to accomplish satisfactorily the tasks allotted to them. The Board cannot effectively cope with the condition that these facts disclose. The positions held by the majority of these untrained teachers are poorly paid, and these positions, always numerous in Southland, have recently been rendered more so by the liberalizing of the staffs in two grades of schools. For such posts it is hopeless under present conditions to look for a constant and sufficient supply of thoroughly trained teachers; and it is evident that we must make the most of the material we have by shaping it to our necessities as best w 7 e can, by such means as the establishment of Saturday and correspondence classes, and by furnishing to inexperienced teachers the opportunity of spending a limited time in good schools of a grade similar to their own. But though the results of these agencies are encouraging as far as they go, they do little more than touch the fringe of the difficulty, and local training facilities, additional to those already in existence in the four large centres, are imperatively demanded. The multiplication of small schools at distances which render easy the transfer of pupils from one school to another, and which cause the roll numbers of adjacent schools to oscillate in accordance with the temporary popularity of a teacher or with the whims and caprices of parents and children, creates evils of the existence of which officers of Education Boards are fully cognisant. The application of the system of central schools to which the children of outlying districts could be driven daily would not only greatly increase the efficiency of the instruction in our schools, but would set free funds which would go far to render them much more acceptable than they now are from a hygienic standpoint. The policy is strongly opposed by parents, whose objections this Board at least finds it impossible to overcome. These objections in many cases do not appear to be valid, and I am convinced that no real hardship would be inflicted on parents or children by the closing of a number of schools. The average number of children per school in Southland is now fifty-eight; for the whole of the Dominion the average at the end of the year 1910 was seventy-five. If the whole of the Southland children could be aggregated in schools the average roll number of which was at least equal to that for the Dominion, the district would be served by 142 schools instead of by 185 as at present, The gain in increased efficiency and lessened administrative
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cost is obvious. Considering the large number of schools in Southland to which low salaries are attached, there is cause for gratification that the personnel of the teaching body is as good as it is. Love for the work rather than consideration of material gain would appear in the case of most of our teachers to be the potent factor in determining their choice of profession. Yet, in view of the present rates of remuneration in other walks of life, the duties of which are -not more responsible than are those of the teacher, it is not surprising, though it is to be deplored, that during the last fifteen years no fewer than forty-three male teachers have voluntarily left the service of the Southland Education Board to take up other work. In 1900 the proportion of male to female teachers was as 1 to 1: at present it is approximately as 3 to 5. Though much has been done in recent years to better the position of the teacher, it is obvious that something is yet wanting to attract to and to keep in the service the most promising of our youngmen. The Department's scheme for supplying school-books free to the children is not received with any degree of enthusiasm in this district. Inquiries made some time ago in a number of town, suburban, and rural schools indicated that over 80 per cent, of the children owned the books they used, and there is no reason to think that this percentage is any smaller to-day. There are many purposes (I have already indicated a few) to which this grant could be more profitably put. Here, however, I may be permitted to say that the School Journal, supplied monthly to the children, is proving itself an educational instrument of no mean value. The money expended on the production of this reader is, I am convinced, earning good interest for the State. On the matter of the syllabus I have little to say. I consider it an excellent one both in spirit and intention: If it is reasonably interpreted, and if, in small schools, full advantage is taken of the provisions for grouping certain classes in certain subjects, adequate compliance with its requirements does not impose undue strain on any class of school. My experience of its working, however, prompts me to suggest —(a.) Better definition of the work to be taught under Geography B. The syllabus does not limit the amount of work to be done in this subject. It leaves the choice and arrangement of matter in the hands of the teacher, so that his scheme of work may be adapted to local conditions and to his own personality and aptitudes. Could all teachers use this power wisely, the results of this freedom would be entirely beneficial. As it is there is no occasion to rail against the syllabus; the issue is rather whether the freedom given should not in the circumstances be somewhat restricted. I think it should, (b.) Greater prominence to history, (c.) Slight changes in the distribution of the work in arithmetic over the standard classes, and more mechanical work in the lower classes. A consideration of the needs of the many pupils who leave school after passing Standard VI, and for whom the high schools do not offer suitable courses of instruction, convinced the Board of the necessity of providing some form of continuation and secondary education adapted to local industrial conditions. As the High School Board of Governors was not prepared to modify the curricula of the schools under its control in the direction indicated, the Education Board, with the sanction of the Department, established a day technical college, which, though now only in its second term, has a roll number of 138 pupils. This large roll would seem to justify the establishment of an institution which will tend to mould the characters and develop the aptitudes of our young people at a most critical period of their lives, and to fit them for the spheres they will occupy in the industrial life of the community. But while the day college caters for several classes of pupils having different objectives, there is still a large class outside of its influence —a class that is,» unfortunately, the least alive to its own interests. The considerations, material and moral, that lie behind the movement for the establishment of day technical schools and similar agencies in this and other countries have special cogency in respect of the class in question, and I believe the time has now arrived when a certain minimum attendance at continuation classes should, in the centres at least, be made compulsory on young people. There is evidence that even that small measure of compulsion represented by raising the standard of exemption to Standard VI is operating beneficially in raising the moral tone of semi-rural communities. 3. Mr. Davidson.] You spoke about the multiplicity of small schools : can you give any instances where in your opinion consolidation of schools might be carried out in this district ?— Yes, there is a school at Brydon, midway between Gore and Mataura. From there by rail the children could reach either Mataura or Gore at about 9 o'clock in the morning, and get home at about 4 in the afternoon. That school has been established for some five years or more. There is also the Flint's Bush School, about three miles and a half from two other schools. Wo have out from Invercargill a number of country schools closely- placed. For instance, there is the Myross and Roslyn schools, between which there is not more than twenty minutes' walk. At a distance of probably two miles and a half there is the Kennington School, to which the Roslyn, and probably the Myross, children could go. It is doubtful also whether there is warrant for the Woodlands and Longbush schools, which are not more than two miles apart, the road between being in excellent condition. There are a number of others I could quote. There is the Charlton schools, probably not more than three miles and a half from Gore, w-ith excellent roads. On the other side there is the McNab School, not more than four miles from Gore, on the railway-line: service fairly suitable, though not entirely. However, the distance is not great and the roads are good. Up to Waimea Plains there are a number of small schools which, I think, might well be closed. There is one about three miles south of Riversdale, at the Pyramid siding. In the other direction we have the small school at Sandstone, a distance of about four miles, with good roads. There are others. I merely mentioned those which occur to me at the moment, 4. Mr. Kirk.] Could you prepare for the Commission a tabulated statement, with map, showing the schools which in your opinion should bs grouped together?— Yes, I will do so. 5. Mr. Davidson.] You think the consolidation of those schools would lead to greater efficiency and greater economy as well? —I am strongly of that opinion.
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6. I find in the 1910 report that there are 268 adult teachers in the Southland District, probably more since then, and that you have only one school in the highest grade. In Grade 9 you have only one, and in Grade 8 there are two schools. Do you think your highly qualified men have a reasonable chance of being promoted to schools of the Bth, 9th, or 10th grades?—No, certainly not the chance they ought to have within our own district. 7. What are the chances of their getting into other districts? —I know- w 7 e have lost a number of good teachers, but so far as my memory serves none of them have gone to schools above the 4th grade, 8. During the whole of your experience of twenty-five years in Southland do you know of a single case of one of your teachers having been promoted to a school of Grade 8, 9, or 10 in another district? —No; at least, Mr. Adams, of Riverton, w-as appointed to Waimate, I think, about twenty-four years ago. 9. Do you think teachers in, say, the Auckland District have greater chances of promotion to those high-grade schools? —Yes, by reason of the larger number of schools, I should imagine so. 10. Then you think if the education districts were larger the chances of promotion would be greater?— Certainly. 11. Would you advocate a change in the boundaries of the present education districts? — Yes, I have felt that some change would be advisable. I would reduce the number of districts. 12. With regard to the syllabus, would you not reduce the quantity of arithmetic required in certain of the higher standards and make the work more practical? —Yes. 13. Mr. Pirani.] You said you did not know of instances of teachers in this district receiving important appointments outside. Was there not an instance of an Assistant Inspector being promoted to the position of Chief Inspector in the Wanganui District?— Yes. 14. And was not a secondary-school teacher, Miss Cruickshank, promoted to Wanganui? — That is so. 15. Do you think it would be an advantage if technical, secondary, and primary education were placed under one head? —Yes, especially for the s} 7 llabus, with a reservation that I think the controlling body would probably find it necessary to seek expert assistance for the educational subjects. 16. Mr. Kirk.] What have you to say as to the suggestion that the pay of women should be equal to that of men in the service? —I think there should be a salary attached to each position, no matter who holds it. It rests with the Board to make the appointment. 17. Do you wish to give reasons in support of that? —No, except that we have in this district a number of positions filled by ladies, who do the work admirably. 18. Mr. Wells.} I understand it is the practice in this district for the Board to send four names to the Committee for selection? —Yes, usually four. 19. I suppose it often, happens that those four are not exactly level as regards merit and ability?— Yes. 20. Do you place them in order of merit? —Yes. 21. Have you ever known the Committee to select other than the top name? —It is more usual for the Comriiittee to take any other than the top name. 22. Would that not have a most discouraging effect upon the deserving teachers?—l am certain it has. 23. In order to avoid that sort of thing, would you be in favour of a scheme of promotions being made from a graded list?—l do not think that is even necessary for the prevention of such an evil. In Southland we had a regulation governing the appointment of teachers which I think would have done away with the evil. So far as I am aware, the scheme gave entire satisfaction to the teachers and to a large majority of the School Committees. Under that scheme only one name was sent in. The Board, in consultation with the Inspectors, went carefully over the papers and selected the candidate who in their opinion was best adapted for the position of promotion. They sent that name to the Committee, with an intimation that the Board proposed to appoint that person, asking the Committee either to acquiesce or to give reasons against the appointment of that person and in favour of some other person. They could not object on general grounds. At the same time the papers of the other candidates were sent down, so that it w-as a consultation within the meaning of the Act. Then if the Committee acquiesced the appointment was automatically made. If the Committee objected, and the Board, after reviewing the Committee's objections, saw fit to reverse its decision, it usually appointed the Committee's nominee. 24. I suppose you and Mr. Wylie have a personal knowledge of all the teachers in the district?— Yes. 25. Do you think it would be possible, if you two were to consult together annually, to arrange the teachers in a graded list I —Yes, I believe it would be quite possible. 26. You believe the Inspectors are the men who can best judge of the qualifications of the teachers, being the men who see them at their work? —Yes, broadly speaking that is correct. 27. You'think it would be quite possible, then, to grade them in order of merit so that when a vacancy occurs and the applications come in you could pick out the top name from among the applicants—the name which stands highest on the graded list? —Yes; but would it not be more satisfactory to pick out the top name and submit it to the Committee for approval, as I have suggested? 28. Would not there be a great advantage in having the teachers graded annually, so that the list would be ready every year?— Yes, so far as this particular district is concerned, but not to gauge the fitness of candidates from outside, and we in Southland sadly want them. 29. Suppose the 'Dominion were divided differently, and there were only some six or eight' Boards instead of thirteen, and the teachers were so graded, would it not be feasible for one
J. HENDET.]
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teacher to be moved to another district? —Yes. Now if a person from outside makes an application for a position in Southland, the Secretary has instructions to make inquiries from the district from which that person comes. I admit it is not easy to compare under the present system. 30. Is it within your knowledge that the present system leads to canvassing?—l have only heard so. They do not canvas the Inspectors. 31. Has there been canvassing of the Committees? —I have been told by members of Committees that candidates have seen them. 32. Do you think that a bad system?— Undoubtedl- I do. As a matter of fact, we have a regulation disqualifying any- teacher who canvasses, but it is more honoured in the breach than in the observance. 33. Do you think public opinion here would support compulsory attendance at continuation classes?—l am not in a position to answer that question. I personally am in favour of continuation classes. 34. Can you offer any opinion of the qualifications of the boys that are being turned out from our schools now as compared with ten or fifteen years ago?—l have no hesitation in saying that the product to-day is as good as ever it was. That is my deliberate opinion. 35. Is there too much examination? —No. 36. Would you be in favour of doing away with one term examination? —No, I think three examinations are necessary. 37. You spoke of a shortage of teachers and of heroic measures to meet the difficulty-—namely, the importation of teachers? —That was the Board's suggestion. 38. They would be imported, would they not, mainly with a view to filling the country schools?—l presume so. lam not in the confidence of the Board. 39. Do you not think, before teachers are brought out from the Old Country, the conditions prevailing in our backblock settlements and the conditions of life generally here should be made very clear to them? —Certainly. 40. Do you not think that if they were brought out expecting employment under conditions such as now exist in the Old Country there would be a bitter cry when they found what they had to face?— They would be grievously disappointed. 41. We would have to go about this very cautiously?— Yes; but it will not be possible to procure teachers unless we can guarantee salaries of £150 to £180 for them. 42. Do you know anything of the child-labour here in the county districts?—l have come across a good deal of excessive child-labour in the daiiying districts, but less latterly than there used to be the case, probably on account of the introduction of milking-machines. I think the conditions have improved now. 43. Has it come under your notice that children have reached school unfit for work?— Yes, sevaral times that has come under my personal notice. I have known children to fall asleep during the day. 44. Do you know anything of such conditions prevailing in the towns, in the way of children going out on milk-carts in the early morning and selling newspapers at night?—No, I have not investigated any such cases. 45. What is done in this district in connection with school libraries?— Nothing by the Board, but, nevertheless, a considerable number of schools have established school libraries. The Board does subsidize these efforts. 46. Have you given any thought to the matter of local rating towards the cost of education? —Not very much. Ido not care to speak about it. 47. Have you heard it suggested at all that the average roll number rather than the average attendance should count in the staffing and grading of schools?— Yes, but I do not think that would be an improvement. I think the present system is the best. 48. Have you any instances in this district of country schools growing very rapidly through mining and milling industries?— Yes. 49. If a young fellow- straight from the Training College was appointed to such a school, and it grew very rapidly, do you think the Board should have power to transfer him in order to put in a more experienced teacher, who deserved promotion to such a school? —Yes. I do not think there would be any doing that. 50. Do you think the State is getting good value for the money expended on education?— In my deliberate opinion it is. 51. Would you make your remarks apply to all free books : would you strike off the supplementary readers? —No, I should like them retained. 52. Your remarks apply only to those books a child should take home?— Yes. 53. It is your experience that they- buy these books rather than not have them at home? Yes, the great majority do. 54. Supposing the children were allowed to take the free books home, do you think any objection would be raised at the end of the year w-hen they came to be handed out again? Yes, I have heard many objections urged, and I think the parents would stiß purchase the books. 55. The Chairm,an.} Have you given any thought to the question of setting up a national Council of Education in order to secure uniformity- of policy and interpretation of the regulations? —Yes, I think such a Council is quite necessary. Duncan McNeil examined on oath. (No. 65.) 1. The Chairman.] What is your position?—l am headmaster of the Waihopai -School, and I have been in charge for nineteen years. I was in charge of a number of country schools before that. lam a B.A, of the New Zealand University.
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2. You wish to speak on behalf of the Southland Branch of the Educational Institute in regard to certain of the orders of reference in the Commission? —Yes. I desire to support the proposal, advocated by the New Zealand Educational Institute for a number of years past, in favour of establishing, for the appointment of teachers, a definite plan which would be effectively national in its operation, and which would better secure that promotion should be in accordance with merit. Though the Act regulating the appointment of teachers in primary schools was not designed to make the teaching service sectional in regard to appointments, yet the administration of that Act has tended to create subdivisions corresponding to the education districts. Education Boards, it is true, do occasionally, in filling a vacancy, choose a teacher who is not at the time in their employ, but this is infrequent in the case of good positions. Speaking generally, unless there should happen to be a dearth of suitable local candidates, the applicant from another district is treated as an outsider, and his claims do not receive equal consideration. This anomalous feature appears all the more out of place when it is remembered that in other essential respects our education system is national. Thus the school syllabus, the classification of teachers, the scale of staffs and salaries, the superannuation scheme are all administered on a Dominion basis without any district restrictions arising from the local administration. To put the case by means of a concrete example : if a Southlander has qualified as a teacher at one of the Stateestablished training colleges, has passed the New Zealand Education Department's examination, and received its certificate, why should any obstacle stand in the way of his obtaining an appointment in any district of the Dominion if his merit entitles him to it? I think lam right in saying that no other Department of the public service places its servants under the disability of having their scope for advancement hampered by provincial subdivisions. Teachers as just as truly and essentially servants of the State as if their appointment and dismissal lay directly in the hands of the Department; and the fact that they are under the control of local Boards should not impose any needless disadvantage on them. The full extent to which district barriers affect appointments is not easy to determine, but they are, at any rate, a large enough factor to prove detrimental to education. On the one hand, the resulting limitation in the range of selection makes it certain that positions cannot always be filled to the best advantage. On the other hand, the limitation of every teacher's prospect of promotion is prejudicial to that spirit of enthusiasm and progressive effort which it is so highly desirable to keep alive in the profession. It has been the discouraging experience of more than one aspiring joung teacher to realize, through repeated disappointments, how precarious were his hopes that he might regard the schools of the Dominion as his field for possible promotion. In the smaller districts, where the well-paid positions are very few and but very seldom vacant, the outlook for teachers who.are prepared for self-sacrificing effort must appear narrow indeed. It seems clear that, if a scheme could be devised whereby every appointment would be made on the basis of merit, irrespective of what district the applicants might belong to, a real cause of disaffection among deserving teachers would be removed, and, correspondingly, a better incentive would be afforded to strive for increased efficiency. But the administration of the appointments Act leads to another grievance quite distinct from that which has been indicated. If there is just cause of complaint in the case of an applicant who is virtually disqualified for a position because he is regarded as an outsider, there is also, on the part of the teachers within the district where the position is to be filled occasional cause for dissatisfaction in that promotion by merit is not the invariable rule applied to their case. It need hardly be said that this is not put forward as a reflection on the integrity of the authorities concerned in making the appointments. It arises rather from the faultiness and inadequacy of the procedure usually followed in selecting and appointing a teacher. Except in the case of the Boards which have established grading schemes, there is no effective method employed whereby the comparative claims of applicants for a given appointment may be justly assessed, and whereby also the appointment may be made in accordance with such assessment. In determining to whom the preference should thus be given, it will be generally admitted that the dominant consideration should be proved efficiency. Now, efficiency cannot be judged by any mechanical criterion. For instance, length of service, certificates, high attainments in learning, though by no means negligible criteria, do not furnish decisive evidence as to a teacher's practical ability in his craft. The quality of the work he has been doing is the only sure guide, and this is a matter which can be estimated only by the trained and .experienced judgment of an expert. The Inspector, who periodically tests and observed the work of the teacher, is the only one in a position to judge efficiency. Accordingly, in a sound method of appointing teachers, the Inspector's estimate should form a factor on no account to be nullified in the process of making and fixing the selection. It is just at this point that prevailing methods are most at fault. The common practice among Boards is to send the names of several applicants in order of merit to the School Committee, on whose recommendation, even when it completely sets at naught the ranking of the names by the Board, the appointment is made. The Committee has not before it the most important data on which its choice should be based, the significance of the certificates and other credentials which are forwarded is not always understood aright. On the ground that School Committees are not in a position to judge the issue put into their hands, I hold that the onus of choice should not be with them. But even as regards the Board's ranking of chosen applicants, there is often no systematic process followed to give to every consideration affecting a teacher's claim its relative value in the final estimate. Departmental certificates, if teachers are to be expected to attach any importance to them, must count for a little, and length of service is not to be wholly set aside, while personality is of recognized importance. The pre-eminent place of proved efficiency has already been emphasized. To ensure a methodical and comprehensive estimate of every applicant's qualifications, and to prevent unfair discrimination against outside applicants, the Institute advocates the establishment of a uniform grading scheme similar in principle to the schemes which have for two or three years been in force in Auckland and Wanganui. Just as the fear
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at one time expressed that the adoption of a Dominion scale of staffs and salaries would impair the vitality of local administration proved groundless, so there is no valid ground for entertaining any like apprehension in case the institute's proposal regarding appointments should Tje carried. In the grading schemes referred to, numerical values are assigned for efficiency, personality, certificate, length of service, &c.; and all teachers have the marks to which they are entitled under each heading recorded in a register, which is revised annually. In selecting names for a "vacancy the Board is guided by the totals of the candidates' marks as shown in the register. If a particular candidate shows a substantial excess of marks over the rest, the appointment is his unless a cogent reason for passing over him can be specified. If several are equal or approximately so, the choice is confined to these. In support of the proposal I would urge, first, its adequacy as a remedy for the defects pointed out in the present mode of appointing teachers; secondly, the successful local trials given to grading schemes in two or three districts; thirdly, the approval of the Boards as affirmed at a conference of their representatives two years ago; and, fourthly, the indorsement of the Inspectors who at their last conference agreed upon a model grading scheme. It has been objected that, in order to secure a fairly even standard in allotting the marks for efficiency, the Inspectors would require to be under the central Department, so that, by periodical conferences and departmental instructions, their assessments would be guided on similar lines. That safeguard seems to me just as practicable under the present order of things. Under whichever authority—Boards or Department—the Inspectors might be placed, they would have to be located for practically the whole year in the several districts as they are now; and the interpretation of the proposed appointment regulations could be just as easily communicated to them or discussed in conference by them in the one case as in the other. It may be pointed out in this connection that for the purpose of determining the figure to be assigned to each teacher's certificate (as in Dl, C 3, &c), the Department has all along accepted the estimate of efficiency furnished by the Board's Inspectors. I have only to add that the views I have put forward express not merely my personal convictions, but the off-repeated opinion of the Teachers' Institute of this district, as also, I believe, substantially that of the New Zealand Educational Institute. Scholarships : A resolution was affirmed last January by the New Zealand Educational Institute to the effect that Junior National and Education Board Junior Scholarships should be abolished, and the money so saved should be spent in paving the lodging-expenses of those children who are highest in the list of the Junior Free Place Examination, and who require to live away from home in order to attend a secondary school. I wish to support the essential part of this recommendation, although I think that the idea that its adoption would constitute abolition of scholarships is quite fallacious. Whatever name the proposed lodging-allowance to be allotted on an examination test might bear, it would seem to me to all intents and purposes a scholarship. I would therefore prefer to put the suggestion as propounding fresh conditions for the allotment of scholarships so that their purpose would be better served. In view of the great extension of free secondary education within the last decade, scholarships can now serve but one good purpose—that of bringing free secondary or technical education within reach of children who could not otherwise have obtained these boons. It is not so long ago since scholarship examinations were held to serve, in a measure, an important additional purpose. The view then current was that the State should provide post-primary education for those children only who showed pronounced intellectual ability. The State, it was argued, would in due time reap the advantage of enabling the intellectual elite among the rising generation to develop their talents to-the fullest. As to children of ordinary capacity, or below that standard, a thorough primary education comprised the State's responsibility towards their training. Under this conception scholarship examinations were the best-known means of selecting those who would most benefit by the privileges to be offered. This idea was doubtless largely justified when post-primary education was of the one traditional type diligently followed by the high schools of past years. That conservative course of instruction, however, began to differentiate, admitting, for example, commercial branches, and so also tacitly admitting the validity of vocational training in schools. The new departure developed until it resulted in separate institutions, and very shortly technical day schools will take equal rank with what are more specifically denominated secondary schools. Concurrently with this progress the door of admission to free secondary, and, lately, free technical, education was opened wider and wider, until practically every child who has made fairly good use of the primary school may now freely carry his education over the next stage, with a choice between two kinds of schools at his option. Distance from these institutions is the chief remaining barrier as regards a large number of children availing themselves of their new educational opportunities. But free railway passes have cancelled this difficulty in the case of many. The conditions of allocating scholarship moneys should then be accommodated to all these changed circumstances. Payment of fees being now practically done away with, these scholars who from their own homes, or by utilizing suitable train services, can attend secondary institutions no longer require State assistance in the form of scholarships. As a matter of fact, many scholarship-holders of the last few years could and would have received secondary or technical education had no scholarships been available. It is otherwise with those at a distance from the large centres or from railway-lines. To assist these and put them on an equal footing with the rest it would seem possible to formulate a plan restricting the allocation of the scholarship (or lodging-allowance, if the term be preferred) on the general principle laid down in the resolution. I think that, with a view to getting the greatest value for the expenditure, it would be worth attempting to give practical shape to the suggestion made. I have spoken of secondary and technical schools as possessing equal claims in regard to having entrance to their classes provided for by scholarships. This is not a part of the Institute's resolution; but I take the-opportunity of suggesting that all free-place pupils and scholarshipwinners alike should have the option of which class of school they are to attend. It has been contended that if the Institute's resolution is carried into effect the special preparation of the best
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pupils in the proficiency classes which is now entailed by scholarship examinations would disappear from the schools, not wholly, I fear. For the schools having pupils eligible for the proposed allowances would still be tempted to bestow special coaching with a view to success at whatever examination might be fixed upon as a guide for selecting the best talent. Unless some other test than that supplied by examinations could be found (and I am afraid thatis not possible), the .eagerness of parents and of teachers will always engender a competitive spirit with the resultant special coaching. 3. Mr. Wells.} Do you think there is much coaching done here for scholarships?—A good deal. 4. After-hours work? —Yes. 5. If you abolish the scholarships, would you give a book-allowance to town children in lieu of the present scholarship?—l should think that would be a very large and expensive order, and that the present scholarship allowance would be pretty well swallowed up in doing so. 6. Would you give that assistance to the pupils who claimed they actually needed it? —The difficulty would be to determine who should and who should not receive such assistance. That is the reason why I have not suggested that the scholarships should be limited to the pupils of parents of a given income. 7. Do you not know that the Managers of technical schools deal with applicants in that way —applications for monetary assistance are heard in camera, and the assistance is given? — If the information can be obtained with a sufficient degree of reliability I would agree with it. 8. Mr. Davidson.] What distance is your school from Invercargill?—A mile and a half. 9. Do your children attend the technical day classes for woodwork and cookery?— Yes. A bus is sent round for them by the Education Board. The Board pays for their conveyance. 1.0. Do you find that the manual work in the schools entails much clerical work in the preparation of returns? —A great deal. 11. Can you suggest any other method of payment for the instruction in these subjects?—l have not considered any other matter. Alexander Inglis examined on oath. (No. 66.) 1. The Chairman.] What is your position?—l am headmaster of the Invercargill North School, and I have been in that position ten years. I was previously engaged in teaching in different parts of Southland. 2. Do you appear as a representative of the Southland Branch of the Educational Institute?— Yes. I wish to bring forward the views of our Institute in regard to the centralization of the inspectorate. The proposal to centralize the inspectorate is open to objection for—(l.) The change would constitute a critical step towards centralizing the whole education system of New Zealand. (2.) It would also permit of political influence being brought to bear upon appointments to the inspectorate. This is an important point, which, however, scarcely requires elaboration. (3.) To make Inspectors officers of the central Department working under the direction of Education Boards would mean the creation of a dual authority over Inspectors, with all "its possibilities of conflict as between the central Department and the local bodies. This objection derives considerable force from the working of the present system of dual, control as regards that part of the administration which deals with new schools, additions to existing schools, &c. This administrative partnership has been the cause of much friction between Education Boards and the central Department, and has been responsible for vexatious delays in supplying the legitimate and frequently the urgent educational wants of the different districts. Inspectors are" a necessary link between the Boards and their employees the teachers, and if the Inspectors are no longer to be Board officers, then the Boards cannot remain in a position to control the teachers justly and effectively. In addition to carrying out the regular work of supervision and examination, Inspectors are required to conduct official inquiries, to furnish special reports, and to give confidential advice regarding the numerous particular cases involving suspensions, dismissals, transfers, and appointments of teachers, so that Boards may be enabled to take the right course in every instance. These important inspectorial functions will be exercised more effectively and with a deeper sense of responsibility if the Inspectors are under the sole control of the Education Boards. It therefore appears to be an unassailable position that both teachers and Inspectors ought to be under the one authority. (4.) It is in the interests of education to have the Inspectors independent of the central Department, and in a position, therefore, to criticize frankly its proposals and enactments. The Inspectors are in intimate touch with schools and teachers, and their daily contact with school-work under varying conditions enables them to observe the actual working of new departures. They represent class-room experience, the Department represents educational theory; and both are required in building up a course of instruction. But if the Inspectors were officers of the central Department, all that salutary criticism which is now available to the public would be in danger of being suppressed or watered down to the point of making it harmless. (5.) Local government with its consequent local interest has imparted to our education system a vitality which would be considerably weakened by the transfer of any of the essential functions of administering the schools from the local bodies to a distant and inaccessible central authority.' There is no department of public administration in which local government is more to be desired than that of education. In the training of the young the school and the home are agencies which cannot work too closely in unison, and to secure the effective co-operation of these two educative forces the stimulus of local interest appears to be a necessary condition. If that be so, then it follows that a sound policy would operate in the direction of increasing the usefulness of local control by systematizing its functions rather than in the direction of sapping its vigour of curtailing its powers. Further, strong local bodies constitute a safeguard against hasty acts of retrenchment being directed first against education, which, in times of financial depression, is apt to be regarded as a national luxury to be stinted
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freely if economy demands it. At such times, when the Legislature is strongly tempted _to exercise its power to cripple the education system, it is well to have vigorous provincial bodies, which are deeply concerned in the welfare of the schools, to stand between a needy Ministry and the education vote. (6.) It is difficult to ascertain the specific reasons in favour of a centralized inspectorate. One reason put forward is that a more uniform interpretation of the syllabus and the regulations would be secured were the Inspectors to be moved frequently from district to district. Under the present system a conference of the Chief Inspectors at Wellington would provide for such uniform interpretation. Moreover, since the personal idiosyncrasies of Inspectors determine in large measure the extent and direction of particular lines of school-work, an itinerant inspectorate would tend to have an unsettling influence upon the education policy of a district by the introduction of frequent changes depending on the degree of prominence given by the Inspectors to different parts of the school course. For these reasons I am of the opinion that the proposed change would lower the vitality, and thus impair the efficiency, of our primary-education system. In bringing the subject of the primary-school syllabus under your notice I should like to say that the prevailing opinion amongst Southland teachers is that, while the present syllabus has very fully met the demands for supplementing oral and book instruction with more manual training and observational work, it has failed altogether to afford the desired relief as to the quantity of matter to be attempted. If certain subjects have been curtained — e.g., arithmetic, political geography, formal grammar —a full equivalent has been introduced in other respects — 'e.g., handwork, cookery and woodwork, nature-study, physical, commercial and industrial, and mathematical geography, drawing and elementary science. We hold that the syllabus without being in the least impoverished thereby, could be simplified in form and considerably reduced as to its content, to the great advantage of education. By attempting less, we feelrihat we could achieve more. On this point there is no diversity of opinion. As the fact that liberty has been given to teachers to draw up their own programmes of work for the various classes has frequently been put forward as a sufficient safeguard against the persisting evil of attempting to cover too much ground, I wish to point out that, in the more essential subjects, this liberty is more nominal than real. Thus the wording of the syllabus —clauses 36 to 46 —does not suggest that, in English and arithmetic, anything prescribed is optional. Moreover, the departmental test-cards in these two subjects cover all the prescribed work, and these test-cards furnish to the teacher his most authoritative interpretation of the syllabus. In geography, course A, the occurrence of the word " optional " in relation to three minor points implies that the rest of course A is obligatory, and it is so understood. With the exception of the three minor points referred to, the proficiency examinations take into account all that is prescribed. In course B, while some latitude as to subject-matter is conceded (clause 42), on the other hand, clause 43 requires oral instruction to supplement the geographical reader, and also requires fuller treatment than is implied in the lengthy model scheme of the previous clause. The minimum of eighty hours stipulated would not enable the standard here set up to be attained. The questions for the Proficiency Examinations will naturally be partly drawn from course B, so that a thorough and individual knowledge on the part of the pupils is by this fact alone rendered imperative. The practice of holding the Proficiency Examinations at centres makes it impossible for Inspectors to take cognisance of individual programmes of work. Similarly, in the course in drawing, there is no room left for the teacher to determine how much he will attempt to teach, for the proficiency tests cover all the prescribed programme. Thus it is only in history, in nature-study and elementary science, in agriculture, handwork, and health, that any real freedom lies with the teacher to compile his own scheme of work. While disclaiming any intention of dealing exhaustively with the question of how best to remedy the fault under notice, I venture to suggest a few directions in which the curriculum might be lightened or modified. (1.) Arithmetic : (a.) The work in Standard 111 does not embrace any new principles. It practically consists in applying the principles learned in Standard II to higher numbers. I should suggest that the compound multiplication and division of Standard 11, or the long multiplication of money and the talbes of avoirdupois weight and long measure included in the heavy programme of Standard IV should be transferred to Standard 111. (&.) Some of the work under Standard VI is of doubtful utility in practical life — e.g., square root, the relation between the squares on the sides of a right-angled triangle, and possibly time and rate sums. Although the syllabus requires " very simple examples in the use of the metric tables," and "simple cases of mensuration," the departmental test-cards frequently contain examples of a difficult nature. I may also add that these departmental tests are sometimes very uneven, easy and difficult cards being found in the hands of members of a class at the same examination. (2.) Geography: Course A: The programme for Standard VI is too ambitious, much of the work being too difficult for the average child attending the primary school. I should recommend that the following topics be transferred to the syllabus of the secondary school: (a) Explanation of the causes of the tides : (b) inferences from the observation of astronomical phenomena respecting (i) approximately stable position of the earth's axis; (ii) inclination of the axis; (iii) annual revolution; (iy) cause of the seasons : (c) problems in finding the latitude from the meridian altitude of the sun : (d) problems in finding differences of local time from longitude: (c) all the work marked "optional." Course B: For the reasons stated above, the work in this course should be more carefully defined. (3.) Drawing—Geometrical drawing for Standard V : The numerous difficult cases of " the construction of triangles and of quadrilaterals from given data" render it. necessary that a selection of the cases should be given. The following should be excluded : (a) The general method of constructing the polygons named; (5) reducing and enlarging figures by means of proportinal scales. (4.) Nature-study: I should suggest the exclusion of definite courses of nature-study. The demands made by other branches of the school course for observational and experimental treatment are already sufficiently heavy,
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while the utility of observational botany and zoology in equipping children 'for the battle of life is extremely doubtful. Without seeking to depreciate whatever educational worth these definite courses of nature-study may possess, I am of opinion that their disappearance from the syllabus would .not seriously detract from the value of the school course. For it should not be forgotten that, after all, nature-study or observational work is a method, not a subject. (5.) Woodwork and cookery-: It is open to serious question whether the country is getting an adequate return for the time spent by children at these classes. I refer more particularly to the inclusion of Standard IV in the manual-training course. Only- in the largest schools is the course limited to Standards V and VI. The result is that, in the large majority of schools, the work in woodwork and cookery begins with the Fourth Standard, and consequently lasts three years. lam of the opinion that the children of Standard IV are too young to derive much benefit from such a course, and that the time would be spent to better purpose at the work of the main school. I also wish to mention that, in the case of the girls, a considerable portion of the time is taken up in the transcription from dictation of cookery notes and recipes, which require to be rewritten at home. This work appears to be foreign to the purposes of a cookeryclass, and in these days of cheap printing cannot be classed otherwise than as a waste of time. (6.) Term examinations : The number of term examinations should be reduced from three to two, by cutting out the first examination, which is of small practical value. 3. Mr. Wells.] Would you be in favour of a redivision of the Dominion into education districts, so as to have the districts of a more uniform size and fewer of them? —Yes, I should be in favour of reducing the number. 4. There would then be a strong inspectorate in each district? —Yes. 5. Do you think that would meet all requirements?— Yes. '6. Mr. Poland.] Do you think that the system of bringing the Sixth Standard country candidates to a centre gives all these candidates a fair opportunity to show their work?—l have always been of opinion that it did not, as a result of my experience. I know one child who got 60 per cent, to 80 per cent, in the arithmetic examinations during the year, and at the Proficiency Examination she got nothing : her marks were nil. I have had one or two examples like that. Ido not think a highly strung child has a chance at these centres. 7. Mr. Kirk.] Taking into consideration the fact that the State's corrective control in regard to- boys and girls ceases just at a time when the blood is changing, do you favour boys and girls being compelled to continue their education at continuation classes?—l have given some thought to that, and I am inclined to think if that were insisted on we would get in many cases only the real value of the earlier education. 8. Mr. Davidson.] Would you be in favour of dividing the Dominion into education districts whose boundaries would be similar to the present university districts ? —I am not so sure. I have tried to follow that out, and I am not so sure but that a better division might mean a little increase in the number of districts. 9. If the number of education districts were reduced to, say, six, and the inspectorate were placed under the control of the Education Department, do you not think that would lead to greater uniformity in the interpretation of the syllabus? —Possibly it would, but I do not see why it could not be done under the present system. I would suggest six education districts, with conferences of the Inspectors at Wellington. 10. You referred to the unevenness of these test-cards?— Yes. 11. If the inspectorate were centralized, and these cards prepared by the representatives of the inspectorate, do you not think the evils you complain of would disappear ?—I do not think you are referring the evil to the right source. Possibly the cards are now prepared in Wellington for all I know. 12. We will suppose that they were prepared at a conference of Inspectors : do you think that would lead to more evenness?—l think the unevenness of the cards is a very small matter that can be got over without any centralization of the inspectorate. Perhaps the unevenness requires only to be mentioned to be remedied. 13. Mr. Pirani.] What is your system of examining candidates for proficiency certificates in this district? —We have some thirty-five centres, at which all the children in Southland are examined. 14. Do you not think it could be done in their owm schools, with an assistant supervising in the person of the Chairman of the Committee or some other responsible person in the absence of the Inspector?—l doubt it. 15. That is what we do in our districts? —I was not aware of that. 16. Mr. Hogben.} Are you aware that a modification of that method in Wanganui would be in accordance with the regulations? —Yes, I know several courses are suggested. 17. Have you carefully looked through the syllabus and noted in how many of the subjects the amount of work depends entirely on the programme the teacher draws up ?—I have, but the practical working robs the teacher of the freedom that is probably given to him in the syllabus. 18. How does it? —I refer to the Proficiency Examinations at the different centres. No Inspector could possibly take account of the different programmes of work. Sometimes there are nine to twelve small schools being examined in one room., and all the Inspectors can do —at least, what they try to do here—is to strike a sort of average paper that the programmes of work will possibly cover. 19. You know the Junior Free Place Examination, and that the pupils have a choice of five out of twelve or thirteen questions? —Yes. 20. So that practically the pupils are only obliged to do five-twelfths or five-thirteenths of the work set? —Yes. 21. Do you not think it would be possible for the Inspectors to do the same in setting the
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papers for the Proficiency Examination?— That would certainly relieve the situation, but it has to Hbe remembered that young children very often become distracted when they see a long list of questions, and really do not know which question to take up. There is a possibility of the value of the selection being lost by the distracting nature of the quantity on the paper. 22. Do you think it might be relieved? —It would to some extent. 23. And if they were examined at their own schools by their ow-n teachers on their own programmes it would be done away wdth altogether?— Yes. 24. Do you not think an Inspector, then, in a subject like geography would be justified in the case of a well-known efficient teacher in accepting the teacher's results?—l think so. 25. The syllabus allows him to do that? —Yes. 26. Would that not overcome the difficulty in regard to those subjects? —Yes; in the case of teachers who are thoroughly efficient and reliable. It would not apply to the district generally, because we have a very large number of uncertificated teachers, and some of the certificated teachers are too inexperienced to entrust with the responsibility. 27. But do they come to centres from those distant schools when they are inexperienced? — Yes. 28. At what distance from the centre? —Well, Mr. Neil would be able to tell you. There is a school at Awatatara, and there are other places at greater distances. 29. Would you consider seventeen miles a convenient radius? —It all depends upon the nature of the conveyance. Seventeen miles by hack on a bad road would be a very- inconvenient distance. 30. With regard to mathematical geography in Standards V and VI, have you not noticed that most of those subjects are optional? Is that not indicated in paragraph 5? —Paragraph 5 was not mentioned in my objection. 31. Which particular thing on the programme do you object to?— The approximately stable position of the earth's axis. 32. Is that not one of the easiest things on the programme to teach?—l have not found it so. 33. It is easier than the daily rotation of the earth? —What is easy to the mature mind is often difficult to children. 34. Have you tried it with children? —Oh, yes. I give them all the knowledge I can, but I do not think they grasp the explanation. 35. Do you know they teach these things in every country in Europe? —I do not think you will find the explanation of the axis and of the seasons in the Scottish code —speaking from memory. 36. I was speaking of continental Europe. Do you think the Scottish code a good one? — I only mentioned it to indicate that we would not be an exception if we took this out of the syllabus. I simply say that I, in common with other teachers, consider there are certain subjects which are too difficult for the immature mind to grasp, and that in trying to teach them we are wasting our time in futile work. James Ham examined on oath. (No. 67.) 1. The Chairman?} What is your position?—l am headmaster of the Invercargill Park School, and. have been so for sixteen years. I have been first assistant at the South School, and second at the Middle School. 2. Will you kindly state your case? —The allocation of the grant in connection with free school-books has not met with favour in Southland. There has never been the slightest difficulty in getting the parents to provide all the material necessary for school-work. More particularly is this the case in connection with permanent material, such as reading-books and those for arithmetic, geography, and history. If the grant is necessary at all, then the opinion in this province is that it ought to go towards the provision of stationery, pens, pencils, and ink. Under the term " stationery " might be included copybooks, blank drawing-books, and the writing-tablets that are now used instead of slates. It is true that in connection with these writing-tablets a part of the grant may be set aside now for their purchase, but this concession is burdened with a condition that School Committees shall provide an amount equal to that portion of the grant supplied by the Education Boards. It is noteworthy that, in spite of the difficulty which our School Committees experience in making both ends meet, this additional expenditure w-as cheerfully undertaken because of the general agreement that this was a direction in which a little relief would be felt most welcome. If books may not be taken home half their usefulness disappears, and if the children are permitted to take them home, then their usefulness would be limited in time to a single year. I do not suppose that in more than 50 per cent, of cases do the schoolbooks that are the children's own property outlast the needs of the pupils for whom they are originally bought; and, if this is so where their own property is concerned, it may easily be imagined how that percentage would be reduced were the responsibility of ownership removed. In most of our schools slates have been abandoned for some time in favour of writing-tablets, and the results have proved beneficial. With ordinarily good supervision there is less slipshod work. The whole process by which results are arrived at must be shown, and thus there is a powerful check upon dishonesty. Altogether the use of writing-tablets instead of slates makes for increased accuracy in figuring, spelling, and composition. There is no necessity for these tablets to be taken out of school. Experience has shown that where this has been allowed they have lasted only about half the time that they should have. It is strongly felt in this district that the best way for allocating the grant would be in the direction I have indicated —viz., the purchase of copybooks, blank drawing-books, pens, ink, pencils, and writing-tablets. A suggestion to improve the method of arriving at the number that fixes the grade of a school: It is per-
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fectly well known to the members of the Commission that the grade of a school depends at present on the average attendance. The injustice of this is pretty generally recognized, and suggestions have been put forward from time to time in the direction of remedying such injustice. It has been sometimes argued that the grade of a school should depend on the roll number, but, because there seems to be a very strong opinion that this would put serious temptation in the way of teachers, the argument has never met with much acceptance. 'Certainly, were such a course adopted —and it really is the proper course —every teacher should see that the roll was kept correct by the removal of the names of children from the register immediately upon their leaving school. But lam not arguing for this. Ido say, however, that the average attendance should go. In many districts the two winter quarters might keep a school in a lower grade than is proper when the correct roll number is taken into consideration. All the children attending the school have to be taught the lessons, and in cases of absence through sickness or stormy weather (and in Southland stormy weather lasts a considerable period sometimes) the staff has to do extra work, and at the same time lose the prospect of the benefits that would have accrued from a rise in grade. The suggestion that I wish to put forward is that the highest attendance of each week of the quarter should be taken, and at the end of the quarter the average of these attendances should be struck. The number thus obtained should fix the grade of a school. 3. Mr. Kirk.] How many teachers have you in your school? —I have three assistants and three pupil-teachers. 4. Mr. Hogben.] Do you think it necessary to have three schools like the Waihopai, the Invercargill Park, and the Middle Schools?— Yes, I think so. 5. What is the distance from the Invercargill Park to the Middle School? —About threequarters of a mile. 6. How far from the Waihopai School? —About a mile. 7. Do you think there would be greater economy and efficiency by having two schools instead of three? —Considering the size of the schools, I do not think there would be. 8. Mr. Kirk.] How do you fare here for playgrounds?— Fairly well. In the case of the South School they have not a very large playground, but there is a reserve immediately opposite that they can use as a playground. My own school has a park at the back. The main school, which is right in town, has a fair-sized playground.
Friday, 21st June, 1912. Nancy Jobson examined on oath. (No. 68.; 1. The Chairman.] What is your position?—l am Principal of the Girls' High School, and I have been in charge since the beginning of last year. lam an M.A. of the Melbourne University. Before coming here I was senior assistant at the Presbyterian Ladies' College, Melbourne, for five years, and before that I was teaching in Sydney and in Ballarat. 2. Have you any statement to make in regard to the subject-matter of our Commission?— Yes. I wish first to deal with the proficiency certificates and the work of primary schools. With regard to the proficiency certificate, I would state it as my opinion that the examination for that certificate does not seem to be a thorough test of proficiency, and therefore does not satisfactorily affect its purpose. In a New Zealand newspaper early in the year I found the following extract from an Inspector's report with regard to the increased number of proficiency certificates gained by pupils in the primary schools of the district: "In 1910 the percentage of proficiency certificates gained was 62; in 1911, 74 per cent, of the candidates were successful. Commenting on this, the Inspectors state that the figures indicate a higher state of efficiency in the schools, and show that the efforts of the teachers have been guided by a clearer view of the scope of the examination than formerly. The youths now leaving school could read with fluency ordinary current literature, and express their thoughts in writing with clearness, freedom, and in very fair style, and commanded a knowledge of arithmetic possibly a good deal beyond their future requirements." My experience thus far would not permit me to indorse the latter part of this paragraph, and it is not well that Inspectors should lay such a flattering unction to their souls. It is in the important branches referred to herein —proficiency,.in English and arithmetic—that I have found a decided weakness in the majority of proficiency pupils. It is due, I think, not to any lack of efficiency on the part of the primary teachers, whose excellent work I fully appreciate, but to the fact that too much attention is given to subjects less fundamental to education, and that the syllabus in some respects lacks definiteness, which in turn conduces to a lack of thoroughness. In arithmetic the chief aim should be to ensure correct and rapid working of ordinary arithmetical processes and the ready use of the best and most practical method. In English I would strongly advocate the reinstatement of grammar upon the syllabus, though by no means desiring a return to the old state of affairs when grammar was a grievous and unprofitable burden. Yet the simple and fundamental rules of grammar are a necessity : its importance in relation to English composition and as a basis for the study of foreign languages will surely he admitted by any experienced teacher of these subjects, who has probably- found the ignorance of elementary grammatical principles a serious difficulty to overcome. I would also draw attention to the general neglect of history and political geography in the primary- schools. These subjects, in addition to being of great educational importance, are surely a very necessary factor in the training of the future citizens of a young nation, isolated, too, as it is from the rest of the world. When in Melbourne lately I was asked by cne greatly interested in education whether what she had seen in a New Zealand paper was indicative of the general attitude of educational authorities towards history. " The questions on New Zealand geography wore very well done, while in the less interesting subject the reign of Queen Elizabeth —satisfactory answers were also given." The utilitarian spirit is
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entering too much into education : everything is regarded from the point of view of pounds shillings and pence, and the true aim of education is forgotten. The study of history in some form or other should be established on a firm footing in our primary and secondary schools, and that of geography also. The University authorities have now raised the marks in history at the Junior Scholarship Examination from 425 to 575 —soon to be 600—which alteration will pro--bably induce more candidates to take it as a subject. (Hitherto in all other subjects the possible totaii ranged between 600 and 1,500.) If history and geography are given their rightful places on school time-tables, considerable educational benefit would result to the pupils themselves and to the Dominion as a whole. With reference to the work of the secondary schools, I would note first of all a tendency to attach too much, importance to examinations. I realize fully the necessity of examinations and the benefit arising from them, but my experience leads me to the conclusion that they are- often by no means a satisfactory test of a girl's ability. In this connection I would also protest against a pass in the three main branches of mathematics being compulsory for matriculation, as this regulation falls more heavily upon girls than upon boys. I would also advocate the granting of a partial pass in matriculation to a candidate who has gained passes in four subjects or in five, not including those which are compulsory. The partial pass granted in the corresponding examinations in Melbourne works very satisfactorily, and enables a girl to take higher work in other subjects, or to take up a fresh course while completing her Junior Public or Matriculation pass. The necessity of sitting again for examination in four or five subjects in which passes have already been gained entails some waste of time and serious educational loss. In the matter of the teaching in secondary schools, lam in favour of teachers specializing where possible instead of doing so much general teaching. A teacher as a rule obtains best results by working upon her own foundation, and no one is equally efficient in all subjects. It was once thought that any one was qualified to teach English, for example, but the more enlightened and advanced have now realized this to be a mistake. There is much room for improvement in the general teaching of this subject. One of the chief aims should be to instil a love and preference for reading in the proper way the best works of literature. This may be done by the introduction of the works of some of the best modern writers — e.g., Stevenson, Kipling, &c. —and especially of the best specimens of historical fiction. Whole works should be studied rather than selections, and annotated editions, and more particularly those with extensive introductory criticisms, &c, should be discountenanced. Such editions render difficult independent thought and original criticism. In the Junior University Scholarship Examination, English should, I think, be at least as valuable as mathematics and Latin. History also should rank higher than at present, and certainly should be above science. The matter of making mathematics optional for girls is debatable, but I am rather for than against this proposal. 3. Mr. Pirani.] What is your opinion of the English of the girls who come to you from the primary schools? —I think they are deficient in the very points mentioned in the newspaper extract I read. I also think that their absolute ignorance of grammar is a serious drawback to their building up a more advanced English than they have already learnt. 4. What is your opinion as to their form and facility of writing?—l think the girls who have come under my notice this year are very much better in that respect than those of last year. Last year there were some shocking writers amongst the girls. It seems to me that more care should be taken. 5. Do you give any special instruction in your school in physiology?— Just the ordinary physiology, which is more or less elementary up to, of course, the matriculation standard. 6. Do you not think there is a necessity for a special course in a school like yours?—l do not think so. Ido not think it comes necessarily under the work of a school-teacher. 7. Is there a need for a course in physiology by somebody specially qualified, say, for instance, a lady doctor, accredited by the Department?—l really have not considered the matter sufficiently to give a definite opinion. It might be necessary for some of the senior girls, but I would not strongly advocate it. 8. Mr. Davidson.} Do commercial subjects find a place in the curriculum of your school? — No. My opinion in regard to a commercial course is that I think, in one way, it would be a good thing if this course could be taken in the high-school work. 9. Do you approve, then, of the teaching of such a subject as typewriting or shorthand?— Not necessarily in the school—not unless" there was a special technical course attached to the school. 10. Mr. Pirani.] Do you not think it would be better if, instead of having three institutions as at present, the boys in the Technical School were able to take the course at the Boys' High School and the girls at your High School ?—I think that would be better, but it should be a complete course, and then it would have the advantage of a combined course. That is done at some of the new Government schools in Melbourne. 11. Mr. Kirk.] With what result?— One cannot judge it yet because it has only recently been taken up. The commercial course is not such a big course in the high schools there on account of the fact that so many business colleges exist throughout the city. 12. Is there time to teach the commercial course without sacrificing subjects that you consider more essential?—l do not think that course should be taken until at least two years' ordinary high-school work is done. 13. Mr. Hogben.} I suppose you would regard the primary purpose of the Matriculation Examination as forming the entrance to the University?—l believe, of course, that is the primary purpose, but I think the majority of girls especially rather regard it as a nice finish to their educational course. 14. Do you not think the University is justified in looking at it entirely from the point of view as an entrance to its own course? —If the University does, still I do not see that it is absolutely necess*ary to make three branches of mathematics compulsory. I would rather advocate
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insisting on passing mathematics, Part I, as we call it in the arts course, than making mathematics compulsory in the Matriculation, because I think that is a disadvantage to the majority of the girls who enter for the examination. 15. When they are going on to the University?—No, not for the girls who enter for the University. - " 16. What is the use of sending boys and girls in for the examination if they are not going to enter for the University ?—I think it is most desirable that girls, even though they are not going into the University,'should have a standard to work to, and having matriculated they have a certain hall-mark of education. 17. Supposing instead of an examination you gave them a leaving certificate to be srgned by an Inspector of the Department, based on a standard of work, would that meet the case? —I suppose that would have the desired effect. Of course, I have not got altogether into the New Zealand point of view with regard to university work. We do not have a Government examination in connection with the secondary schools on the other side. We feel that the university hall-mark is the one girls aspire to. 18. The Chairman.] Have you heard of girls coming from private and public secondary schools passing brilliantly in one course of study and failing in mathematics, thus being debarred from the special course of study at the university they want to follow? —Yes, I have known that to happen. The partial pass in the public examinations has counteracted that evil to a certain extent. I knew a girl in Melbourne who was delayed two or three years until she had passed one branch of mathematics that is necessary to enter the university there. 19. Are there any private secondary schools in Invercargill?—No. 20. Do you think it is desirable, in the event of such institutions being established, that they should be subjected to Government inspection in order to test the efficiency of the education at them?—Yes,.l think there should be some test—say, registration of the school with an occasional inspection. The inspection need not necessarily be that conducted by examination. 21. Have you had any experience of primary-school work as affecting girls? —I have had no teaching, but I have come in contact with those who have. 22. The claim has been put forward by some of your sex that the girls, at a certain age, should be taken out of the primary schools where they are being taught by men and should get a special class of instruction : have you considered that point sufficiently to give an opinion on it?— That is rather a debatable question. I do not think it will be settled for a long time yet. In Victoria at most of the high schools and continuation State schools that have been established by the Government the boys and girls are educated together. I have had some experience of the girls. They used to play hockey and cricket matches with teams from the college, and it seemed to me that'the relations between the boys and girls at these matches were such as not to make one want to support co-education. There seemed to be some roughness and familiarity, but I think that is now being improved to a great extent. Some teachers are strongly in favour of co-education, but they all find it necessary to be very strict, and I know in one school in Ballarat none of the girls are allowed to attend the boys' matches and none of the boys are allowed to attend the girls' matches. Thomas David Pearce examined on oath. (No. 69.) 1. The Chairman.} What is your position?—l am Rector of the Southland Boys' High School, and I have been in that position for the last eight years. I have been teaching for twenty years. Before coming here I was English master in the Nelson Boys' College and in the Otago Boys' High School. lam a Master of Arts of the New Zealand University, with first-class honours in English and Latin. 2. Do you wish to make a statement in regard to the subject-matter of our Commission? — Yes. I may say I have studied my profession from the scientific aspect, being well acquainted with the literature of teaching. Beginning with our primary schools, I should like to insist at the outset on their foundational function in education. There we lay the broad basis on which we build the whole superstructure. We may add story after story on a broad, solid foundation, but not on a poorly laid, thin foundation. Any architect will tell, you that. The question then arises, Is our foundation solid? I am of opinion that it is not as solid as it should be. Instead of solid concrete or stone, it is more of the nature of the loose and uncemented. Too many elements are in it; it lacks the simplicity that goes with solidity. The old saying was that primary education consisted of the three Rs—reading, writing, and arithmetic. And if we liberally interpret these, we must see that it always must be so. Under " reading " I embrace grammar, composition, spelling, memory-training; and I include drawing with writing. History and geography may be added as necessary fact lore for the true comprehension of our workh physical and political, and for an easier comprehension of allusions and references in general literature. I consider that these are the basal elements. To these in recent years have been added woodwork and cookery, elementary science and agriculture. Now, in summoning me here you wish to know how I find the primary-school product as it comes into my hands. On the whole, I find the boys intelligent and well-grounded in their subjects, so far as their time-tables go. I believe the primary teachers are doing faithful and conscientious work. The smarter boys are good at arithmetic, although this is less is compass than it was fifteen years ago. They read intelligently, have a good knowledge of geography, and some elementary science. Where they fail is in knowledge of history, in grammatical sense, and in knowing how to learn. In history I attribute their ignorance to -using historical readers and to a failure to assimilate the groundwork of the history. I do not mean that they should have a knowledge of detail, but that they should have a historical sense. For instance, I find that boys do not know in what century the Hundred Years' War was, in what century- the English Reformation was, the Civil* Wars, and
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so on. I think pupils finishing the primary stage should have general ideas of history, sufficient to act as guide-posts for them. lam pleased to see that history has been made compulsory for the .D certificate. In grammar, or the absence of it, I find in the secondary school the greatest handicap. The syllabus lays down that the functions of words should be known, but discourages the use of technical names. From my talks with primary teachers I find that they themselves experience the greatest difficulty with this subject, I further find by inquiry from pupils that in many schools no grammar text-book is used. That, I think, is where the mistake lies. The function of words is not taught fully enough. The consequence is that on their arrival at the High School there is great difficulty in learning a foreign language such of French or Latin. It is some considerable time before the grammatical sense so necessary for composition is developed. I should advocate more attention to the elements of formal grammar, with the use of grammatical terms, in the Fifth and.Sixth Standards. Then, generally speaking, there is a marked difference in pupils in knowing how to set about the learning of anything. I am a believer in home-work, written and memory. You cannot progress in secondary subjects without exact memorizing. Spade-work has to be done; without it there is no harvest, Boys who come from schools where home-work is not set make the poorest progress; boys from schools where homework is set, the solidest progress. Home-work develops self-reliance, perseverance, and industry. Lastly, I think that manual work is introduced far too early. Children of the Fourth Standard are not old enough to appreciate woodwork and cookery. I have no objection to these subjects if they are viewed as embellishments and accomplishments; but I think it a mistake to view them as foundational work. I should prefer to see them relegated to the stage of education succeeding the primary. I should prefer the time now spent on them to be spent more profitably in more grammar, more literature, more arithmetic, even more writing. If you take away time for these subjects, then there is less time for the foundational subjects, reading and arithmetic. As regards scholarships, I have formed the opinion that the allotment of scholarships of the value of £5 to town scholars is a mistake. There may be deserving cases, but in my experience they are few. I consider the money would be better spent in the provision of scholarships for country boys, thus aiding them in their desire for further education. There is another aspect of scholarships to which I should like to refer —that is, the desirability of more Senior Scholarships. Parents willingly allow a boy two years at a secondary- school; fhe difficulty comes afterwards, when a boy has arrived at the age of sixteen, at a wage-earning stage, and clothes and books cost more. Then the pinch is felt, with the consequence that then the removals are made. Then our system does not seem to get a return for the money invested. There is the breakdown, so that the tipper department of a secondary school is thinner in numbers than it ought to be. Of course, many must leave for work, but more might be induced to stay if there were ample provision of scholarships. Take the Southland District, for instance. For the wdiole of it only two Senior Scholarships used to be given; then three, and then four; and at the present moment there are five. But these four and five were made possible only because they- all happened to be town children. Five or four could not be given if two Senior Scholarship holders happened to be non-resident. Of course, it is a question of the allocation of the money. What I say would be better for our system would be abolition of Junior Scholarships, and a utilization of that money for boarding scholarships and for more Senior Scholarships. Overlapping exists, so far as I am aware, at one point in our system — i.e., between the so-called day technical schools and the high schools. There is little difference between their time-tables and subjects of instruction, and as the day technical schools were born last, they are the guilty parties in this overlapping. Day technical schools ought to be preeminently vocational in their courses, attempting nothing but technical subjects. Then their existence in our educational system would be warranted. Shorthand, typewriting, commercial correspondence, book-keeping, handwriting, Customs' tariff work, engineering, carpentering, and so on, should be their subjects. Then there would be no overlapping. But as it is they teach English literature, mathematics, and so forth, as in high schools. I venture to say that these technical schools owe their existence solely to the conflict of authorities. I mean that were one body administrating education in a district that one body would not countenance overlapping by unnecessary expenditure on buildings, salaries, and maintenance, when the mere addition of two specialists to the high school staff would achieve their object. Besides I do not think day technical schools are at all warranted outside of the four large towns. We are too ambitious for our small population. I take the opportunity to lay before the Commission a difficulty. All high school boys that are ablebodied are ipso facto Senior Cadets. The Defence officer demands that there shall be six halfday parades in the year. I have no objection to that, I approve of it; but I should like to be helped to carry it out, The Education Department arranges with the Railway Department for the latter to carry all pupils attending secondary schools free of charge on school days. But is will not carry them free of charge on a few Saturdays, even although the school requires their presence, because it is interpreted that drill and shooting are not subjects of "tuition." In this district there is only one afternoon train outwards, and that leaves a few minutes after school closing-time. The consequence is that I have to encroach upon the school lesson-time for these half-day parades. You will naturally understand that teachers begrudge doing this, when this drill and shooting practice could very well be taken on Saturday mornings. All I ask is that on six Saturdays in the year I could be allowed to bring my country boys into town on their ordinary free pass. I have several times approached the Defence and Railway Departments in vain. All that is required is an arrangement among the Defence, Education, and Railway Departments in Wellington, by which the word " tuition " in the Railway Regulations is interpreted to include drill and shooting. As the shooting and drill practices are in conformity with the State requirements, I consider the request a reasonable one, and I hope to s'-? it recommended by you and ultimately attained.
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3. Mr. Wells.] Do you feel able to make any comparison between the output of the boys of Jhe primary schools now and eight years ago? —I think, if anything, they w 7 ere a bit better. 4. You think a boy has less resource now in attempting new work than fifteen years ago? — I do. - 5. Would you make any allowance for scholarships in the towns to cover the cost of books? —Here and there you will find a deserving case where that £5 is of assistance, but the great majority of them do not require it. 6. Five pounds would not much more than cover the cost of books? —No. A boy's initial expense in the matter of books in entering a secondary school is about £3. 7. Still, you would not, as a general rule, supply the books?—No, I find the parents are quite willing to make a sacrifice to enable their boys to attend the secondary schools. The difficulty comes when the boys arrive at the wage-earning stage after the two-years course. I would rather cancel all Junior Scholarships and put the money into Senior Scholarships to retain the boys longer at the schools. My difficulty in this non-university and growing commercial town is to retain the boys. 8. The Chairman.] If the books cost £3, why pay £5 even in deserving cases? Would you favour, in such cases, giving a sum sufficient to cover the cost of the books? —Yes, in deservingcases. 9. Mr. Kirk.] As the State's corrective school discipline ends just at a time when the life of the boys and girls is changing, is it your opinion that some system of compulsory continuation classes should be made general in order to keep their minds employed ?—I am strongly in favour of compulsory continuation classes up to eighteen years of age. 10. Has anything come under your notice as a teacher to justify the teaching of sexual physiology in the schools?— Yes. It is the complete indifference of the parents. Some six or seven years ago I introduced into my school in confidence to the boys a little book by Bisseker. Bisseker is a Master of Arts and a residential master in one of the big schools in England, and he has published this book w 7 ith the sanction of the British Medical Association. I have fifty copies, and once a year I give them to each class and allow the boys to read it, after which they bring it back to me. I make no comment on it. It is a most difficult subject to deal with. I may say that Mr. Blyth, who has visited us from time to time, treated the subject in the most tactful manner indeed. 11. Do you think the subject can be advisedly taught to pupils congregated together? — The general principle can be explained. The complete ignorance of some of the boys is the trouble. 12. Is it not rather a matter for personal interview with the boys?—l do not think so. Mr. Blyth is very strong upon a personal interview, but I differ from him on this point. I am certain this is a subject you cannot ask any and every man to tackle. 13. Have you any remarks to make as to the Inspectors' examinations of the secondary schools? —No. I have always welcomed the Inspectors, and they have always treated me well. 14. As to the amount of examinations generally : do you think they are overdone, or do you think they are sufficient and reasonable? —The antidote to over examination-work is indulgence in physical exercise, and as far as I can I make the boys play cricket, football, fives, and so forth. My best results have always been achieved by boys who have afterwards taken the leading prizes in athletics as well as in their subjects at the University. 15. We had some evidence in Dunedin as to cramming in connection with Junior Board Scholarships • I would like your opinion as to whether there is any cramming in connection with these scholarships, and, if so, whether it is necessary ?—lt is certainly unnecessary. For instance, my boys go up for the Senior Board and Junior University Scholarships, and we never do any extra work. It is all a matter of organization of the tuition in the course of the day. 16. Mr. Poland.] Do you think that without any special preparation of the boys in the primary schools for the Junior National Scholarship the brightest and best pupils in the district will obtain these scholarships?— Certainly. I think it is a great mistake to have extra work. I have a girl of my own in the Sixth Standard at the present time. A class was started before school for preparation for the scholarship-work, and Mrs. Pearce and I soon saw the distress of the child, and we immediately took her away from the preparatory class. She has been all the better ever since. 17. Is she still a candidate for the Junior Scholarship?—l suppose so. T am certain she will'do much better in the examination because of abstention from that class. 18. Do you teach any special vocational course in your school?—I have a commercial course. I insist on a boy taking one foreign language. I do not think any secondary-school course is worthy of the name unless a boy learns a language other than his own. 19. Do you think there is any overlapping in regard to the commercial course between your High School and the Technical School here? —On a rearranged Matriculation course I should be very glad to banish any commercial work from our schools. 20. The Chairman.] Do I understand your deliberate opinion is that the primary-school course and the manner in which it is interpreted and carried out does not afford a sufficient basis for a proper secondary education, that the children do not come prepared in the essentials in the manner in which they did fifteen years ago?—l would not put it that way. I think their time could be more profitably devoted in the primary stage to what I call foundation work. 21. If the boys were grounded in these fundamentals would the material you are working on be better than it is now? —Yes. I think the main point is the difficulty with which they attack new work. I do not think the boys of fifteen years ago had as much difficulty, because it seems
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to me that home-work was more general then and their training of memory was better, and they had a grammatical sense which the boys of to-day have not. 22. Do you regard civics as an important part of primary-school teaching? —No, I do not. I regard it as valuable in a general way. It brings them into touch with their community, but I would not lay much stress on it. 23. If the boy or girl who cannot go to a secondary school is to do intelligent duty as a citizen in after-life how is he or she to get knowledge of the empire to which they belong unless they receive instruction somewhere? —You instruct them in their civics in the primary stage in the continuation schools. 24. Where are those who do not go to the secondary schools or continuation schools to get it?— It is certainly desirable they should have some elementary civics, but it could easily be worked in connection with English in the primary schools. You need not make it too ambitious. 25. In regard to boys not being able to get sufficient time to drill, has application been made by your Board of Governors to both the Railway Department and Cabinet for train facilities? — I hold a commission as Major, and I have interviewed General Godley in regard to the matter of allowing my country pupils to travel on their railway passes on Saturday to town to attend drill, as that is the only time when they can be drilled properly. General Godley is quite in favour of the proposal, but nothing has been done. Apparently when these things get to Wellington they are apt to be pigeon-holed. 26. Would it not tend to a great improvement in their drill and shooting if the boys had a special concession to travel on Saturday?— Yes. As it is the train arrangements do not suit on any other day of the week, with the result that the drill has to be rushed through in the dinnertime. 27. What you plead for is a common-sense view of the regulations, and not a red-tape one? —Yes, I plead for the general utility of the State. This is a matter between the Railway Department and the Defence Department. This district is peculiarly situated in regard to its train arrangements. 28. I understand the train arrangements are not such as would enable this instruction to be given, and the boys to return to their homes within a reasonable time on any day but Saturday? —That is so. William Macalister examined on oath. (No. 70.) 1. The Chairman.] What is your position? —I am a barrister and solicitor. lam a member of the Southland Education Board, and also chairman of the Board of Governors of the Southland Boys' and Girls' High Schools. I was for fifteen years connected with the administration of education in this district, but during recent years I have not been so closely in touch with it as formerly. 2. Mr. Wells.] Is the control here of primary, secondary, and technical education under one body?— The Education Board does not control secondary education. I may say that some years ago I was in favour of amalgamating the two bodies controlling education. Ido not know that lam in favour of it now. I find that the work, by reason of the introduction of technical education, has been increased so much to the Board that I am doubtful whether the Education Board could efficiently undertake the control of secondary education in addition to the work it is doing at present, it might make for economy, but Ido not know that it would make for efficiency. 3. A good deal would probably depend on the local body?—No doubt. Of course, here in Invercargill the administration of the high schools is economical. By arrangement with the Education Board we have the use of the Board's office and Board-room, and the Secretary of the Education Board is also the Secretary of the High Schools Board, so that there is not much to be gained even on the score of economy by amalgamation here, and I do not think there would be anything gained in the way of efficiency. 4. Can you offer any suggestion as to where economy could be effected without endangering the efficiency at all? —Not with the continuation of the present system. It seems to me that economy might be obtained by creating a central Board or Council of Education to control the administration of education —that is, not the actual local matters, such as repairs to schools, &c, but the actual work of administering education. might very well be controlled by some central body. 5. You would approve of that?— Yes, I would. The same idea occurred to me years ago. I know that members of Education Boards are opposed to any interference whatever with the powers of Education Boards, and they resent and have resented any interference on the part of the Department. I have never taken that view. I think that education is a matter of national concern, and Education Boards are not local bodies in the sense that other public bodies are. So far as the administration of the affairs of this town is concerned, there is no community of interest whatever with Dunedin or Auckland; but so far as the administration of education is concerned it is of interest to the whole of the Dominion. In that sense Education Boards are not local bodies administering local affairs. Education is a matter of national concern. It should be a national system, and I do not see,how such a system can be controlled by local Education Boards. Ido not approve of centralization, but I have always sympathized with the Department on occasions when they have interfered in matters with which this Education Board has claimed to be its own concern. I know if I were head of the Department I would be strongly tempted at times to interfere. I was asked whether I could make any suggestion in the direction of economizing the administration of education. I do not suggest the abolition of Education Boards, because there should be some local Board of advice; but I think the administration of education —that is, the actual work of education —ought to be controlled by one central Board, and if that were done it would make for economy.
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6. Mr. Thomson.] What is your opinion of a Dominion scheme for the promotion of teachers? -—It would be an advantage to have such a scheme, but it cannot be done under the present conditions. 7. Would you believe in centralizing the Inspectors?— Under certain conditions. 8. Mr. Pirani.] If there was a central Council of Education, consisting of experts in education, expert administrators, and so on, governing, with the Department, the system of education, and if under that there were, say, four Education Boards or bodies for the whole of the Dominion, and under those Education Boards there were School Boards for each district, giving to a district, say, fifteen to twenty schools, primary, secondary, and technical, and with it all there was a system of classification and promotion of Inspectors and teachers, do you not think that would be a better and more comprehensive government of education than the present system? —It would, but it would not be so comprehensive as the one I suggest. 9. Mr. Davidson.] Do you know of your own knowledge whether there are many unnecessary small schools in this district?—l do not think there are any that are unnecessary. 10. Do you not think that many of these small schools might be closed and the children brought to a consolidated central school?— Yes, that might be done, but not under the present scheme. No doubt, if ample provision w 7 as made for bringing the children to a central school it could be done. 11. Do } 7 ou not think it would lead to greater efficiency? —Yes, I think it would. 12. Do I understand that you would advocate the nationalizing of the system in reference to the training, appointment, and promotion of teachers, and the inspection and examination of schools?— Yes. My fifteen years' experience on Education Boards leads me to say so emphatically. I am strongly in favour of nationalizing the whole system. 13. If the system was nationalized, I take it you would leave the local control to the School Committees? —I do not know that it could be left to the School Committees as at present constituted. There would have to be some local control, either by a School Committee or a School Board. 14. You advocate the nationalizing of our system as distinct from the parochial form of government as at present?—l do. I do not know that there would be any justification for four Boards. Why have four? I should say that one would be sufficient. 16. The Chairman.] Do you not think that a Council of Education would tend to a continuity of policy?— Yes, I do. Edith Annie Howes examined on oath. (No. 71.) 1. The Chairman.] What is your position?—l am second assistant in the Gore Primary School. 1 have been thirteen or fourteen years in the service of the Southland Education Board, and before that I taught in North Canterbury for about seven years. For some years I have given earnest thought to our system of primary education, looking for the causes of its unsatisfactory results. It seems to me that three great mistakes are being made, and that real education can never be achieved till they are rectified. The first and most mischievous mistake is understaffing. In spite of recent partial reform, classes are still far too large. I would venture to say that no teacher, however capable, can hope to really educate more than thirty children at onee —twenty to twentyfive would be a much more ideal number —but throughout our bigger schools we have classes of forty, fifty, sixty, and even seventy. In so large a class the work becomes mob-teaching, not education. The correcting and marking of work, the giving out and collecting-in of material, all the mechanical part of the work takes up far too much of the day. It is impossible to find the time for enough individual effort on the part of the children, individual reading, speaking, questioning, and answering. To get through the allotted work the teacher must do most of the talking, the children meanwhile losing the interest and the self-reliance which come from personal effort. Besides this, there is in any big class a most marked unevenness of brain-power. In a class of fifty, there will be about ten at the top who for the greater part of the year are only marking time while they wait for the rest; at the bottom there are another ten lagging behind. The medium majority claim all the time there is; the teacher cannot cope with the two extremes. Those at the top lose interest; those at the bottom lose heart. Worst of all, the earnest teacher feels keenly that the rush of work and the continual straining of discipline inevitable in a big olass prevent that close personal touch, that knowledge of the individual child and interest in his character which could be made the most potent factor for real education. Big classes produce alienation. The second mistake is made wherever two classes, under two teachers, are in one room. And that condition obtains widely. The distraction is tremendous, both to children and teachers. Concentration is almost impossible. Grown people could not do what we are forcing upon little children —could not concentrate on arduous mental work while half a hundred children beside them read aloud or repeated numbers. The nerve-strain is terrific, and a real hindrance to effective work. The third mistake seems to me to be that the children are giveh too much mental work at too early an age. Ignorance of child-development is partly the cause of this. We have not yet sufficiently realized that doing, not thinking, is the -child's natural expression of himself; that if we would not overstrain the little developing brain we must lead gradually up to abstract thinking through eager interest in delightful doing. But here again comes in the stultifying effect of big classes. Doing means room to move —floor-space— which is not available. A class of fifty is too unwieldy for outside work—real nature-study becomes an impossibility; it is too unwieldy for any kind of manual work. A teacher may stand and hurl ideas at fifty listening heads, but she cannot competently direct the work of fifty pairs of untrained hands. So the work is necessarily almost limited to the and for five hours or more each day for nine long years the children sit at brain-work. Most grown people feel such a record a pretty severe strain; the effect on children, suffering doubly through physical
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suppression ar the age of greatest physical development, is a brain-fag which sends them from school utterly weary of education. So we turn out our young people untrained in habits of selffeliance and initiative, and too tired of learning to be keen on that self-education to which school life should be but the prelude. Of course, more liberal staffing means greater expense, but perhaps there are ways in which economy- could be effected. An extension of the van system seems one. Teachers in charge of ten or twelve children in the backblocks could teach twenty or twenty-five in a centralized school. But even though better staffing should cost considerablymore, it is surely worth while, if it makes a success of wffiat is at present spoken of as a failure. Most persons are agreed that no better investment of the people's money could be found than true education. If the results were satisfactory, the grudging of the cost would probably cease. For full staffing, again, we need more teachers than we have offering at present. To attract teachers to the profession we need higher salaries, the pleasanter conditions which would result from smaller classes, and more training colleges. 2. Mr. Wells.] Have you had any experience of kindergarten work? —Only what we have tried in the infant classes, and on the account of the big classes they are a failure. The schools are not built for kindergartens; they are only built for cramming children in and making them sit still. 3. Do you think the kindergarten should be incorporated with the public-school system?— I think so, decidedly, if you have enough teachers and enough room. But as things are at present kindergarten work could neither be incorporated as lower classes, nor the principles carried through the classes as we have them. It seems to me that the kindergarten idea could be carried up much further than it is at the present time if we had room and the qualifications. 4. Are not teachers trained to kindergarten methods? —Yes. 5. Under present conditions, at what age do you think children should be admitted? —I really do not know that I have thought that out; but children of five years are too young to learn what they are expected to learn now. I feel that if they begin at seven years of age they learn as much in their first year as the majority of children beginniug at five have learned in those two years. They learn more. A child beginning at seven can go through four classes of the infant-room in little more than a year. The ordinary child beginning at five years of age takes three years to go through those classes. 6. What is your idea of teaching cookery as part of the school-work?—l think it is an excellent idea. I have not met a girl yet who is not enthusiastic over it.. Every subject that brings an interest into school life is a big help. 7. You spoke of the smarter children marking time: have you any suggestion to offer, other than the appointment of more teachers, to get over the difficulty?—l do not see any other. 8. We had the suggestion in Dunedin that in the large cities the fourth, fifth, and sixth classes should be grouped in two or three schools, thus enabling more division to be made? —That would be an improvement. 9. Do you think there would be any loss to the other schools in losing these standards?— There might be, but I think there would be a counterbalancing advantage on account of the interest given. 10. You have published some works dealing with nature-study for children? —Yes. 11. What is your opinion of the syllabus regarding nature-study, and of the syllabus as a whole I —lt seems to me that arithmetic and nature-study open up the minds of the children better than any other subjects. The abstract subjects are not dealing with the real things of real life, but nature-study is the one thing of all which links the child to real things. I have for years tried to carry out nature-study very fully, but with the size of the classes I have I find it cannot be done as it should be done. You cannot get the children outside, and you cannot get enough material to go round a big class. Nature-study is impossible under present arrangements, and it seems to me that that is one of the great wants. With regard to the syllabus generally, 1 have not gone through the work of the other standards, and so am not competent to speak. 12. Mr. Pirani.] What is your ideal number of children one teacher ought to have under her control: I suppose half a dozen would be an ideal number I—No,1 —No, that would be too small for enthusiasm and competition. Fifteen to twenty, I should say. 13. Have you any idea of what that would cost?—l suppose a tremendous amount, 14. Would you be prepared to contribute your share of the cost in direct taxation, if you were asked to?—I suppose every one who was really- in earnest in the matter would. 15. Is it not a fact that one teacher can teach more children than another? —That is so, but I have not yet seen the possibility of a teacher teaching more than thirty successfully. 16. Do you think the more pressing need is more teachers per school rather than that the teachers should have more salary? —From the point of view of the welfare of the children, } 7 es; but unless you pay salaries I do not know where you are to get them. 17. Do you know of any positions open to ladies giving better salaries than ladies can get in the teaching profession? —Yes, I think so. If the time put into study was put into dressmaking I think a girl would do better. 18. Probably there may be a hundred picked positions, but excepting them, what is the ordinary jiay of a dressmaker's assistant? —I do not know. 19. Do you know of any position in the teaching profession starting at ss. a week? —No. 20. Do you know any number of dressmakers who can get more after five years' dressmaking than a teacher can get after five years of teaching?—l do not. 21. There are three thousand teachers in the Dominion : is there anything you can compare for a moment in general with the pay of teaching, considering holidays and superannuation? —You have not counted in the nerve-strain, which is greater than any other.
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22. Mr. Thomson.] Do you recommend the establishment of more training colleges?— Yes. 23. Do you not think it would be better to have local training-schools?—l think that would biff-better. The only thing is that the pupil-teachers are experimenting on the children, who are suffering from their teachers' want of knowledge. 24. What about the normal school, where the children have to take several new teachers in the course of a-day?—They are teaching under direction. 25. They must be experimenting on the children? —Yes, but under direction. 26. The Chairman.] Is it not a fact that every student is under the direct training of a teacher ?—Yes. 27. Mr. Thomson.] How, then, do you account for the number of excellent teachers in Southland who never went to a training college? —They got that by experience; but how about the children they experimented on ? 28. Mr. Davidson.] What is the average attendance of your school?—46l. 29. If the staff is materially increased when the new scale comes into operation, that difficulty you mentioned about imderstaffing at Gore will to a large extent disappear? —Certainly. 30. Have you ever considered the desirability of promotions of children taking place every half-year, instead of every year as at present?— That would be an advantage if there was room to put them into the other classes. I have thought of it, but it does not seem to be very feasible. 31. Have you tried dividing classes into the senior and junior division?—l do so invariably. 32. That to some extent prevents the retardation of the clever pupils?— Yes. 33. Would you recommend laying down a definite course in nature-study, or would you advocate the teaching of nature-study in correlation with reading or any subjects that lend themselves to that work ?—I agree with the correlation to a certain extent, but it can be overdone in making it too rigid to be worked under certain circumstances. 34. I mean that the teacher should be allowed to correlate with any of the subjects that lend themselves ? —I am in favour of that. 35. Mr. Hogben.] Would you understand that a definite course in nature-study precluded correlation with other subjects where it is possible? —No, I do not. I am a little in doubt as to what " correlation " means in this connection. I work with a definite course of nature-study, and correlate too. 36. You think the syllabus allows that? —Yes. 37. Mr. Davidson.] Would you have on the time-table a definite period for nature-study?— Yes, otherwise it would be apt to be left as a subsidiary thing. 38. In addition to having a definite period for nature-study, you would also correlate with the teaching of other subjects? —Yes. It makes those subjects much more interesting. 39. The Chairman?] I take it it is your experience that it is only fair to the teacher to have smaller individual classes? —Yes, to the children and teachers. 40. Do you think it would be an advantage if kindergarten work was given to children of tender years, and also formed part of the State-school system of New Zealand ?—Yes. John Neill examined on oath. (No. 72.) 1. The Chairman'] What is your position? —I am Secretary of the Southland Education Board, and have been so for twenty-seven years. I was teaching for thirteen years before I became Secretary. 2. Have you prepared a statement? —I have made some notes for the purpose of bringing certain matters under the notice of the Commission. My notes are somewhat brief, but I shall be glad to answer any question the Commissioners may put to me. (1.) Powers of Boards: In making appointments of teachers Boards should have almost absolute power. This Board's regulations, adopted in the year 1898 (copy attached), were to my mind almost, if not quite, the ideal. In the regulations referred to provision was made for consultation of School Committees by throwing on them the onus of showing in what respects a teacher selected by the Board for a particular vacancy was not the best qualified or most suitable applicant. These regulations, I have good reason to believe, were adopted in the very best interests of all concerned, and under them I believe more satisfactory appointments were made than has been the case either before their adoption or since they were superseded in 1902. Moreover, I am convinced that a very large majority of the more intelligent School Committees and teachers highly approved of them. (2.) Amalgamation of local governing bodies : It seems to me that there is no reason why the Education and High School Boards should not be amalgamated, and every reason (both financially and otherwise) why they should. The day is past when it may be considered that there is any conflict between the interests of primary and secondary education—rather is it now considered that the one is but the recognized complement of the other. There seems, therefore, no adequate reason why the same set of men should not control and the same set of officials administer the affairs of both primary and secondary education throughout the Dominion. (3.) Finance of Boards : The introduction of a colonial (Dominion) scale of salaries, while recognized as a most beneficent measure in the interests of teachers, had the effect of restricting the powers of Boards in the matter of regulating their general finance. By this innovation practically three-fourths of the revenue of Boards was, so to speak, earmarked, and I think rightly so, in the interests of those most concerned. Now, under the altered conditions the Boards are restricted in their financial operations within the limits of the grant (12s. per pupil) for the purposes of administration, and even in this restricted sphere by a departmental regulation requiring that at least ss. 6d. of the total grant of l-2s. shall be paid over to School Committees. There is thus but a sum of 6s. 6d. per unit of average attendance in any given district over which a Board may be said to exercise absolute control. It seems to me that something more might be done to
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equalize the financial responsibilities of large and small education districts. It is obvious that in education districts where there is a large average attendance in proportion to the number —of schools, and where relatively the cost of administration is less than in other districts where the existing conditions are not so favourable, the consideration of "ways and means" must prove a somewhat difficult problem for some Boards to solve. I am, of course, aware that this "condition of matters is somewhat ameliorated by the special grant of £250 per annum made to all Boards (large and small alike); but even this concession is, in my opinion, not enough to place all Boards on an equitable footing financially. (4.) Franking privileges : I respectfully direct the attention of the Commission to what happened several years ago in the withdrawal of the franking privileges previously enjoyed by the Secretaries of Education Boards. I do not complain of the abolition of such privileges—quite the contrary —I believe that the change thus brought about was decidedly in the best interests di the State; I do say that some equivalent advantage should have been bestowed on the public bodies interested whose functions are purely administrative. The change meant to this Board an average increase of expenditure equal to £104 to £120 per annum since the change was introduced, with no corresponding increase of revenue. (5.) Free class-books :In my judgment the introduction of the scheme for the supply of free class-books to pupils in public schools was a mistake. There was no public demand for the privilege from even the poorest in the community, and neither do they now to any extent take advantage of the concession. It is a notable fact that probably from 75 per cent, to 80 per cent, of the parents purchase at least all the reading-books required by their children, with the result that the free class-books so generously supplied by the State are to a very considerable extent unused. From a hygienic point of view alone the principle of providing books for the indiscriminate use of all the pupils in any school is objectionable. I should say that at least onehalf of the money spent in providing free class-books is as good as wasted. If the object desired be to lighten the burden of parents of large families and of only moderate means, then that object could be as easily attained by supplying all exercise-books, writing-tablets, drawing and copy books, and other miscellaneous stationery required by the children —all of which would in effect perish in the using. The wisdom of this suggestion has, indeed, already been recognized by the Department in its circular of instructions issued at the close of last year, whereby is permitted the subsitution of grants for the purchase of stationery in lieu of certain class-books to be provided by the parents. It only requires an extension of this principle so that it might apply to all classes and to all text-books. With certain exceptions, in the case of parents who may be too poor to afford to purchase a full supply of books, and which could easily be provided for, I am strongly of opinion that the grant for the supply of free class-books as at present administered should be diverted to other and more useful purposes. In this connection—that is, the substitution of stationery for class-books to be purchased by parents—l direct attention to the conditions under which such substitution is allowed—viz., that the amount provided by the Department will only be paid on condition that the School Committees —that is, the representatives of parents —contribute an equal amount. If the object sought to be attained by providing free text-books is relief to the individual parent, then the Committee should certainly not be expected to contribute to the cost of such supplies, the only feasible method (with their very restricted income) by which they (the Committees) can contribute being by making a call either directly or indirectly on the parents of pupils, thus in effect nullifying to some extent the advantages which the system is intended to bestow. (6.) Scholarships and free places :In my opinion the present system of awarding scholarships should be abolished, and all money payments withdrawn except such sums as will provide for the approximate outlay for text-books for the use of the successful candidates gaining over a certain minimum number of marks. at the examination. I do not, of course, advocate the withdrawal of any portion of the present expenditure on scholarships, but rather the application of the surplus thus set free to the assistance of successful country candidates who have to travel by public or private conveyance (other than the railways) to enable them to attend the prescribed secondary school. An adequate allowance for board for the forty weeks of the school year should be made to all scholarship pupils requiring to reside away from their parents' homes whilst pursuing their more advanced studies at the secondary schools. I suggest that the granting of free places in secondary schools to all pupils passing with proficiency the Sixth Standard should be regulated by some restrictions other than a mere age-limit. In many instances the free place is surrendered before the expiration of the period for which it was granted, with the result that the pupil has received but little benefit from the instruction given at such a cost to the State. A free place should be awarded only to those who are prepared to undertake a course of at least two years, and withdrawal should only be permissible under exceptional circumstances as to failure of health or for other adequate excuse. (7.) Teachers' salaries : A minimum salary of at least £120 per annum should be paid to all male certificated teachers in the service, irrespective of the position held. I hold strongly that some differentiation of salaries as between married men and single men should, if possible, exist, as also between male and female teachers after a certain reasonable limit of minimum salary has been reached. In saying this I am aware that I enter upon debatable ground, but I hold the opinion that the regulation in operation some ago, whereby (after reaching what was then considered to be a living-wage) a differentiation in the increment of salary granted each year as between male and female salaries was only a just provision in view of the inequality of the social and other obligations of the sexes. In conclusion, I may say that there are many other phases of the educational problem on which I might have touched, but consideration for your Commission, as also the fact that others have dealt more or less exhaustively with the points to which I might have referred, forbids that I should further trespass on the limited time at your disposal. It is unnecessary that I should say that I shall be very pleased indeed to answer any questions
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which members of your Commission may feel disposed to ask, or in any other way to facilitate your inquiry into the educational interests of the Dominion. 3. Mr. Wells.] Do you think economy might be effected and greater efficiency secured by the amalgamation of some of the smaller education districts that at present exist? —I certainly think so. . - 4. Have you thought at all whether any simplification might be effected as regards the returns that are required?—l think a good deal could be done in that direction. I have brought with me a few returns such as we are asked to compile quarterly. One is a statement of the numbers of pupils attending the public schools, with their ages, respective standards, and so on. It seems to me that for statistical purposes if such a return were compiled once a year it would be quite sufficient. It takes at least thirty pages of ordinary foolscap to compile the figures required for this return. It seems to me all that work is unnecessary. There should, I think, be a separate report for the first three quarters, and if this full return is required it should only be for the December quarter. 5. The omission of that would mean a considerable lightening of the office-work? —Yes, but it would lessen the work of the teachers to a greater extent, and it is they who have to furnish the quarterly returns. The return which the teachers have to supply us quarterly entails upon them a lot of unnecessary work, I think. 6. Can you make any suggestion for the simplification of the work? —That depends entirely upon the exigencies of the Department.- The making of returns so far as the attendance of pupils is concerned is necessary- owing to the fact that the teachers are paid on average attendance. 7. Are there any other returns which pass through your hands? —Yes, a number. There is the annual return, for instance, giving the names and salaries of teachers. It seems to me it would meet all requirements if w 7 e were required to furnish the number of schools in each grade and the aggregate salaries paid to the teachers of the schools in that grade. Of course, we should have to get the information, but it would not be necessary to forward this very formidable return. I do not see that there is much to be gained by it, because, after all, the names of teachers is a matter for the Boards, and cannot very- well be gainsaid by the Department. 8. Can you suggest any means by which we could get greater economy without impairing efficiency of administration? —I do not know that I have sufficiently studied the subject to answer the question. I think there are directions in which economy could be effected, but one would require to go into it carefully. 9. Mr. Kirk.] In connection with these returns it necessarily follows, I take it, that if the returns are cut down there must be a saving in the office of the central Department so far as checking is concerned? —I should think so. 10. What have you to say as to the relations existing between the Education Board and the School Committees in this district? —They are entirely harmonious. During the last twenty years I do not remember anything approaching serious friction, even at times when friction might have been anticipated. 11. Are the School Committees carrying out the functions required of them?—l think they are to the best of their ability in nearly every case. 12. Are the school buildings being fumigated?— Wherever an outbreak of typhoid or other disease has taken place the schools are fumigated. The schools as a whole are not fumigated regularly. 13. Do you not think it would be wise on the part of the Committees to have them fumigated regularly? —Perhaps it would. Some of the schools do fumigate during the holidays after each term. I think it should be done every quarter or half-year at all schools. 14. Mr. Poland.] You are, I understand, Secretary of the High School Board as well as the Education Board?— Yes, I have been for six years Secretary of the High School Board. 15. Do you think one Board could successfully undertake the control of the primary schools and the technical school in this district?—l believe if a small sub-committee w-ere appointed it could be done. 16. Do you believe one control would work in the direction of economy and tend to prevent overlapping?—lt would certainly have that tendency. If any overlapping occurred it could be more readily seen and checked. 17. Mr. Thomson.] Do you think, a saving would be effected by reducing the number of returns required by the central Department?— Well, I do not think there would be any great saving in the cost of education, but there would be a saving in the labour involved in the preparation of those returns. 18. What was the credit balance of the Southland Board of Education for the year 1911? About £7,000. 19. Against that what were the liabilities? —There were large liabilities in respect of buildings and other things. 20. Of that £7,000 is there included any portion of the 3 per cent, allowed for reinstatement of worn-out school buildings?—l presume so, although it would be a quite indefinite quantity. 21. How much has the Board of Education to the credit of that fund?—f could not tell you. We have not been asked to get that out. 22. How much do the School Committees of Southland contribute towards education in their own districts? —Some years ago the School Committees contributed almost as much as the Board contributed for all purposes, including prizes, excursions to the sea, and that kind of thing. Some five or six years ago it was shown that something like £1.500 to £2,000 in the aggregate was contributed by the Committees for school purposes.
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23. I am not referring to excursions and that kind of thing : I am speaking more particularly with regard to works required to be done in or around the school buildings? —I should say, about £1,200, on which the Board grants a subsidy. 24. You correct your statement and say that instead of £2,000 the people of Southland raised for those purposes from £1,000 to £1,200? —Yes. 25. And the School Committees raised another £800 for certain other things, which money is not subsidized by the Education Board? —Yes. 26. Mr. Davidson.] Can you account for the very great increase in the cost of administration by Boards during the last ten years? —I am not aware that the increase has been so very material. 27. I think if you look at the returns you will find it has increased in a much greater proportion than the attendance at the schools throughout the Dominion? —I should say it has been caused by the increased activities to which the Boards are invited to give their attention. Take, for instance, the development of technical education : that must have led to a considerable increase alone. I do not think there has been any increase in the cost per pupil or school so far as the Board's official administration is concerned. 28. lam speaking of the Boards generally. The fact remains that the cost of administration has increased largely during the last ten years. Do you think it is due entirely to increased activities, especially- in technical education? —There may be another reason. The officials do not always remain } 7 oung, and officers who like myself are reaching the retiring-age have had gradual increases to their salaries. 29. The additional work thrown on the Boards during the last ten years would necessitate additional assistance, and in consequence increased expenditure, I suppose?— Yes. 30. Then, about the appointment of teachers, you have only two schools in this district in the two higher grades, 9 and 10?— Yes. 31. There would be great difficulty then, I presume, in teachers attaining to the highest positions in the service within this district? —There is very little chance except by the accident of death or removal. 32. In any case there are only two " plums " in the service in Southland?— Yes. 33. You have one Grade 10 school in this district: how long has the headmaster been in charge of that school? —About thirty years. 34. So that during that thirty years there has been no chance of any teacher reaching the highest position in the service? —No. 35. Can you suggest any remedy for this undesirable state of things?—l suppose the other districts are in much the same position. 36. Do you not think teachers in districts where there are a greater number of these higher positions are more favourably situated than the teachers in Southland ?—I do not think so, because it is only a question of the proportion of small and large schools in a district. In Otago there are greater chances of promotion, because there the proportion of large schools is greater. 37. Do you not think, then, it would be in the interests of the service as a whole if the teachers in any districts, large or small, had a reasonable opportunity of securing the best positions? —I think it would, but that would involve centralizing the administration as regards appointment of teachers. 38. If some system of Dominion promotion could be evolved without introducing central administration do you think it would be a good thing? —I think it would. 39. Mr. Hogben.} With regard to this Return No. B—the quarterly return —if we did not get this once a year could we present a report of the ages at which the children pass certain standards throughout the Dominion I —l do not think you could; but it does seem to me as an outsider that once every three years would be quite often enough to present such a report. I do not see the necessity for doing so every year. 40. Do you know that the State departments of the Empire have mutually agreed to provide such information annually? —I was not aware of it. 41. With regard to the Return No. 1, in connection with which you suggest it would be sufficient to give the number of teachers in each grade, and then, I suppose, give a summary of the salaries over a varying range of £30 : suppose a mistake were made by which a teacher was.given, say, £25 more than he was entitled to, and that was not discovered until the returns were received some fifteen months later, would you require a refund from the teacher because you had made a mistake? —Well, the preparation of the condensed return I spoke of would have to be done with very great care, so that no mistake would be made. 42. The Department would not have adequate means of checking a mistake unless more detailed information were given?— That is true. I admit that is a disadvantage. 43. Would you have all this entered in your salary-book?— Yes. 44. So that most of these things could be copied out of the salary-book?— Yes. 45. Do you suggest any way in which you could correct mistakes if they occurred in large number? —I have not really given the subject consideration. 46. Do you remember that this Return No. 1, substantially as it stands now, was drawn up by a sub-committee of Secretaries some years ago?— That is true, but years have elapsed since then, and wise men have had an opportunity of changing their minds since then. 47. The Chairman.] I understand you administer practically the primary and high-school education in Southland? —Yes, under the Board. 48. And you are therefore able to see for yourself where there is overlapping in those institutions?— Yes.
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49. If each institution were under an independent Board would you have the same means you have now not only of seeing the overlapping but of checking it ?—Certainly not. I would have no right to interfere. 50. Do you think a Council of Education would secure uniformity of administration? —I should think so, at any rate, as regards the literary side of the education question; and would tend possibly to maintain the true character of " nation " to our system. John Moodie examined on oath. (No. 73.) 1. The Chairman.] What is your position?—l am agricultural instructor under the Southland Education Board. I have been six months here, and before that I occupied a similar position in North Canterbury. I have been four years teaching agriculture in primary schools. 2. Do you wish to make a statement to the Commission? —Yes. By way of apology I may say I am appearing here partly in self-defence. I will admit, however, that when self-interest is at stake a man's judgment is apt to be a trifle warped, but as evidence from Auckland all the way down has been more or less antagonistic to the teaching of agriculture in our primary schools, now that you have reached the Bluff I feel it is time for some one to cry Halt. As my own experience is decidedly in favour of the subject, I feel more than justified in tendering evidence therefor, especially as the lines I have been working on for some.seven years past are strongly- approved of by teachers with whom, as travelling instructor, I have been in close touch for the past two years and a half. Furthermore, I have had ten years' experience in agriculture outside of the profession, and four years' teaching the subject in primary schools. Agriculture in the generally accepted sense of the term is a misnomer as far as school-work is concerned, and cannot certainly be taught in the school garden. The principles of tillage, however, can be well taught, but it must be done on horticultural lines. The subject is on the syllabus mainly on account of its utility. The school garden, therefore, should and can be made of great utilitarian value to each district, and at the same time lack nothing from an educational point of view. A knowledge of nursery-work, the methods of propagating plants vegetatively—that is, by budding, grafting, and layering—lies at the foundation of success. In scores of schools in North Canterbury this class of work has been successfully done. Given the above knowledge and an initial expenditure of not more than 10s. per school, in two or three seasons, and with no further outlay, thousands of apple, pear, plum, peach, or rose trees may be produced in each educational district. There is nothing visionary whatever about the above statement. As to the truth of it there is ample evidence throughout North Canterbury at the present time. It is but two years since I introduced the nursery-work there. When the pupils become the owners absolutely of the material they work, tree-culture becomes greatly interesting to them, besides appealing strongly to the parents. In my opinion, at least half the area of the school garden should be devoted to treeculture. To show the potentialities of this particular branch of agricultrue I submit the following : Twelve Northern Spy apple-stocks, costing 2s. 6d., will produce at the end of the first season twenty-four stocks; forty-eight at the end of the second; and seventy-two, on an average, at the third. Twelve rose-stocks (dog or Manetti briars) will produce cuttings same as for plums. Pear, peach, and apricot stocks may be grown in unlimited quantities from seed. There is an enormous future for the fruit-growing industry of the Dominion, if this branch of agriculture were taught generally throughout our schools. A monthly article on school gardening appearing in the School Journal would be of very great assistance to teachers in the backblocks. It certainly would be of great assistance to me in my work, provided I had the writing of the article. In treeless districts, forest-tree culture might well form a feature of the work. From my experience in Canterbury, where I was initiating this class of work, I am satisfied it can be taught with every prospect of success. Some very valuable work might be done in the matter of plant-breeding by selection, particularly with grasses. With such an army of searchers some decidedly superior types would most probably be discovered. Searching for special characteristics, abnormal or otherwise, is a particularly interesting form of nature-study work. I have found it so with advanced pupils under my own charge. The following are my suggestions for the teaching of agriculture by means of the school garden : Plan the garden so as to individualize the work as far as practicable —one or, preferably, two pupils to each plot; even sections of the flowerborder should be allotted to individual pupils. Appeal to the self-interest of the scholars. On certain terms, allow pupils to own the material grown. Fruit-trees and rose-stocks, when successfully budded or grafted, should become the absolute property of the pupils, and be removed each season to their home gardens, and thus gain the interest of the parents. Test new varieties of vegetables, farm roots, grasses, <fee. Make a special feature of nursery-work. Let the propagation of fruit-trees and stocks by grafting, budding, and layering, &c, form a part of each year's course, also pruning and the renewal of old or worn-out trees by crowm grafting. In dealing with the work generally, endeavour to get the pupils to discover for themselves the why and the wherefore of the various operations. Failures, partial failures, and successes should be noted, and reasons advanced. Accuracy in detail should be insisted on. Drawing, arithmetic, and school-work generally correlated as far as practicable with the garden-work. Stimulate observation and reflection. Insist on habits of order, method, and cleanliness. Ornamental work in the way of improvement to the school-grounds should not be overlooked. Only the essential plant-foods from the soil, nitrogen, potash, phosphates (lime), and those from the air need be dealt with each year. First year—nitrogen in dried blood, potash in kainit, phosphorus in bonedust; second year —nitrogen in nitrate of soda, potash in wood-ash, phosphorus in superphosphate; third year —first and second years revised and nitrogen in sulphate of ammonia, phosphorus in basic slag. Farmyard manure, turf and green manures when used. Standards V and VI pupils should be taught to understand the guarantee analysis that manure-vendors are
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compelled to give to purchasers, and the unit values of nitrogen, potash, phosphoric acid in commercial fertilizers. The prices per unit as published at present by the Government are: "Nitrogen in dried blood, 135.; potash, 55.; phosphoric acid (P 2 0 B ), soluble 65., insoluble 3s. 6d., in basic slag 3s. One per cent, equals a unit. 3. Mr. Wells.] What is the number of schools taking agriculture in this district?— Between seventy and eighty before the season starts. 4. Is agriculture taken in connection with any of the town schools? —Yes, at the two large schools —the Middle and Park. There are fifty-two children taking the instruction at the Park and thirty-two at the Middle. Of course, the work at these schools is taken mainly on horticultural lines —the propagation of fruit-trees and flowers, and so on. 5. It is utilitarian, but still you are treating it mainly from the educational point of view? —Undoubtedly. It gives a child an interest in the work. 6. In your opinion, does the teaching of this agricultural work in the schools give the boys a bent for the land as against town employment?— Most decidedly so. If you get a child interested in horticultural work you create in him an interest for the soil, and ultimately a love for the cultivation of plants. I speak with an experience of six or seven years. 7. Mr. Poland.] Have you had any acquaintance with the district high schools of Southland ?—There is one district high school intending to take up the work, but there is no district high school taking it at present. Two of these schools took the course in North Canterbury, and I will quote the following opinion of the headmaster of one of them—the Lincoln District High School—where the rural course has been taken up : — " District High School, Lincoln, 12th June, 1912. —Dear Mr. Moodie, —I have read your suggested programme of work in connection with the teaching of agriculture in the school gardens, and though I do not see eye to eye with you in every particular, I have found the scheme so helpful and suggestive that my work in that subject last year (the first in which we had adequate scope) was based mainly upon it, and the results were eminently satisfactory. As you know, our efforts in previous years had not met with much success, and I therefore feel that we owe a good deal to your suggestion. It is eminently a practical scheme —in fact, in that direction it appears to me somewhat overambitious, and provides for more than we could acomplish. But the work of propagating, seed-selecting, &c, not only attracts the pupils, but appeals to the parents, whose interest in this branch of education is not always easy to enlist. And the fact that it is so practical should not prejudice it, even in the eyes of the most ardent educationalist, who is apt to let his regard for pedagogy pure and simple blind him to the merits of a scheme that insists upon work first and theoretical deduction afterwards. I assume that you do not wish it to be carried out in its entirety, for, of course, the scope of the work at individual schools must be governed by circumstances, and my statement that it is rather overambitious is therefore scarcely justified, as we may have attempted too much. But I think no teacher can study it without benefitting materially. by the valuable suggestions it contains, and I am carrying out this year's work on lines similar to those of last year, with the fullest confidence. —Yours faithfully, Arthur Cookson." This is a letter from the headmaster of a primary school: — " Somerfield School, Christchurch, sth April, 1912. —Dear Mr. Moodie, —I have received your letter in which you ask for a candid expression of opinion re the system of school-gardening initiated by you in North Canterbury. I am strongly of the opinion that this system is far ahead of the old system, or want of system, in every way. The following points about it have appealed to me: (1.) Every tw 7 o pupils have a plot between them; each child has an applestock, plum-stock, cuttings, &c, of his (or her) own. The stocks that are budded and grafted successfully are transplanted to the child's home garden. I have found that the children take a great interest in their stocks and cuttings. One boy bought two dozen additional stocks last year for his home garden, and budded or grafted them all successfully. He made his own grafting-wax. from the recipe given by you, and, needless to say, he is very proud of his little orchard. Another boy, who took home an apple-stock which he had budded last year, removed to a new district some months later, and he went to considerable trouble to take his little tree with him. (2.) The same vegetables, &c, are grown in line across all the plots. This not only gives the garden a tidy appearance, but it individualizes the work. Each child takes part in preparing the ground, in sowing the seed, in thinning the vegetables and keeping them free from weeds. He not only sees the operations being done; he does them himself. The competitive spirit introduced by work on these lines has a wholesome effect. (3.) This system lends itself readily to experiments showing the advantages or otherwise of subsoiling, liming, manuring with different artificiail manures, green manuring, &c. Last year we subsoiled three plots : one we manured with farm manure as the digging proceeded; to another we gave a dressing of lime (raked in); the other was not treated. We also had three plots unsubsoiled treated in the same way. ■ (4.) The botanical plot has proved interesting. The taking of one botanical order each year, and treating it fully by the observational method, has made plant-life very interesting to the children. These are only a few of the main features of your system of school-gardening that appealed to me. I like it altogether, and so do the teachers of North Canterbury as far as I have come in contact with them. I find that the parents and School Committees are quite enthusiastic over it. With best wishes for success and happiness in your work in Southland, I remain, yours truly, J. Reid Wilson." I have received several other letters from teachers in North Canterbury on the same lines. 8. Do you find the children take an interest in the work? —A very decided interest. Mr. J. Anderson, the headmaster of the Amberley District High School, says, " It is perhaps the most popular subject in the school course"; and another headmaster writes, "The lessons on grafting and budding were taken up enthusiastically by the boys, who often practised the art on trees
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at home. The parents feel much more interested in school gardens than formerly. Probably thejgrowing of fodder plants in experimental plots has aroused them to the value of school gardens." That is the general tenor of the evidence throughout. 9. Is there sufficient ground attached to most of the schools for these garden plots?— There is ample ground in almost every school. A very small bit of ground will propagate hundreds of trees for use as stocks for grafting buds. 10. Mr. Pirani.} Do you think the introduction of this work into the schools detracts in any way from their ordinary school training?— Nature-study work is on the syllabus. When agriculture is taken up nature-study is dropped out, and agriculture becomes the nature-study portion of the syllabus, and it really forms part of the subject. It does not mean an extra subject to the syllabus. 11. So that for a certain portion of the time when they would otherwise be in the school they are outside in connection with school gardens I—Yes,1 —Yes, at least half an hour a week they are compelled to be in the school gardens. That is the condition under which the capitation is granted. In the first year, when the initial work is rather heavier than in the following years, it really amounts to more than half an hour per week. It really requires an hour in the first y- ear--12. Mr. Davidson.] Do you find the girls take as much interest in the work as the boys?— They take a great interest in budding roses. That work seems to appeal to them more than to the boys. For this work the Board supplies the stock, and a child owns a tree if he buds it and grows it successfully. He takes it home. I have established a school nursery in every school garden, and from that nursery will come the supply of stocks year after year. 13. Have you found the teachers complain that this work interferes with the other subjects on the school syllabus?— They complain that it takes up rather much time. They like the subject, but it does not count towards the proficiency certificate of Standard VI. If proficiency in that work counted towards the Standard VI certificate they would be quite satisfied to take it up. 14. Do you think something could be done to induce the city children to take an interest in this work? —The work can be taken up by a city school with every prospect of success. I could refer you to some of the suburban schools around Christchruch, such as Heathcote Valley, which is a good fruit-growing district. 15. Do you think anything could be done in the direction of establishing teachers' horticultural societies for the exchange of plants, bulbs, and so on, as is done at present in several of the Australian States, and particularly in Victoria? —For myself, I think, in a year or two, once we had the work thoroughly well under way, it would be advisable for one district to exchange material with another district. 16. That would create a more general interest in the subject? —Yes, and save expense. 17. Mr. Hogben.] Do you say that the initial cost would only be 10s. per school or 10s. per pupil?—l say 10s. per school; that is an outside limit. 18. What about garden implements?— The initial grant of £7 10s. far more than covers them. 19. Do you think that grant is more than is necessary?—l find that about £5 10s. gives a very fair outfit for a school in which there are fifteen scholars taking up the work. £7 10s. is the maximum grant. 20. £5 10s. would provide for what class? —Up to twenty scholars. 21. Mr. Kirk.] At what standards do you start the agricultural course?— From IV to VI. We are not allowed to take under Standard IV, and in schools of over 200 scholars we are confined to Standards V and VI. I think it would be better to allow Standard IV to come in in a school of 200 scholars and perhaps drop out Standard VI. 22. What time is taken up with the agricultural course? —An hour per week is compulsory. 23. Do you think any good can be done in an hour a week?— Certainly. 24. Is it the teacher who devotes that hour a week, or do you, as instructor, go round each school an hour per week? —The teacher is supposed to give an hour a week to it. I intend visiting the schools here twice a year. 25. It is an hour a week summer and winter? —Yes, forty hours a year. 26. Assuming that a school-teacher is teaching the manual work that is laid down, and that there is also a reasonable amount of nature-study being taught, and that he is also devoting half an hour a day to physical exercises, do you think he has got adequate time in the syllabus to also teach the agricultural course?—l would certainly be inclined to drop out some of the physical exercises. Garden-work is a good physical exercise itself. 27. The Chairman.] Do you think the rural course should be made compulsory above Standard VI in a district high school ?—I certainly think it should be so. 28. In your opinion would it be advantageous to make it so? —Yes. 29. Are you acquainted with what is known as the People's High 'School in Denmark? No. 30. If the rural course were added to all the district high schools and led to a taste for the primary industry of the district, wquld it not follow that the young men, as they grew to manhood, would desire to qualify in the particular industry in which their life's work would be engaged? —I think so. 31. In Central Otago, where fruit-growing has been very largely taken up, the industry languishes to a certain extent through inability to get labour in the picking season. Can there be any objection, providing the rest of the school course is fairly followed, to having what is called a harvest holiday to enable the children to go into the fields and pick fruit? I think it would be advisable to have a holiday during the fruit season and curtail the other holidays. In fact, in certain districts during potato-digging the schools are closed and the other holidays are shortened.
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32. Mr. Poland.] You say you believe the rural course should be made compulsory in all district high schools : I would like to know if you mean that all children attending the secondary branch of a district high school should be compelled to take the course? —I think it would be a good thing to make the course compulsory in the district high schools situated in the country. 33. Do you mean to say that a child living in a country district should be compelled to go through the agricultural course whether or not it was the intention of the parent or the child to afterwards follow agriculture ?—I would not be inclined to compel a child to take up the rural course if it was the intention of the parents to put the child into commercial life. 34. But you believe in encouraging children in country districts to go in for agriculture? —Most certainly. Olliver Duff examined on oath. (No. 74.) 1. The Chairman.] You are in the service of the Southland Education Board? —Yes. I am English master in the day Technical School. I have been employed in that capacity since the sth February of this year. Before that I was for seven years in technical and continuation schools —five years on the staff of the Dunedin Technical School and two years at Nelson. 2. Have you prepared a statement?— Yes; I have prepared a statement on the teaching of English to technical and continuation classes. My sole excuse for giving evidence before this Commission is that for almost eight years now I have been engaged continuously, and almost exclusively, as a teacher of English to continuation and technical classes, and so may claim to know something of that ever-increasing host to whom, since they are provided for neither by the secondary schools nor by the University, the State must soon address itself more particularly perhaps than to any others. For eight years my sole aim and endeavour as a teacher has been to meet that class —to discover just exactly what it is they want, and to try to give them that and nothing else. In one word, I have been trying to impart a little culture to those hundreds of young men and women who have gone out into the world without any; and, though I cannot point to any very striking results, I have thought it possible that a remark or two on this branch of State education may not be out of place. On the whole, the students with whom I have had to deal have been working-youths and young women between fifteen and twenty years of age, but some —perhaps a hundred individuals in all —have been older than this. Some, of course, have been younger. Some of these —I should think 60 per cent, or 70 per cent, of them —have passed the Sixth Standard. Most of them, though by no means all, have shown a real desire to learn. All in all, they have not been difficult to control. And yet if they had the zeal of fanatics and the gentleness of doves, no teacher that I know of could do more in the time allowed by the Department than scratch the crust of their colossal ignorance. Of the hundreds with whom in the last few years I have had to deal not 10 per cent, when they came, could write down two paragraphs from an ordinary newspaper leader without making mistakes in spelling; not 20 per cent, would think of dividing into paragraphs; very many would make such a bungle of the punctuation that the passage would be almost unintelligible—indeed, it is probable that at least 40 per cent, of them would put commas at the ends of sentences. Of grammatical accuracy not two in ten would know anything. If I were to ask the same student to write a letter to a friend, half would omit the date; many would begin with a small letter; perhaps 10 per cent, would close with " yours respectively"; and it is absolutely certain that 50 per cent, would write as if they had never at any time in their lives before given expression to a natural sentence. Some would attempt big words, some a weird and formal pomposity; others would wallow in slang. Then there is the question of their knowledge of books. For several years I have made a point of questioning each new class on the books they have read, and the books they like. Perhaps I will ask all students to write down the names of at least six books they have read, and then perhaps the names of some of the most famous books in our language, or it may be of three or four great writers. Most students have read some books, though all have not. Most can remember not only the name of the author, but also something of the contents as well; and yet it has never happened in any single class that more than 10 per cent, of the books named had any value except as waste paper. In a class of thirty or forty students perhaps three have read a novel by Thackeray, or Dickens, or the Brontes, or Scott; two may have read a little verse; but I am very much surprised indeed if I find that a single student has read anything of value beyond this. I think it has happened only twice or thrice in eight years that a good book of biography has been mentioned. Only the other day, to a question as to the names of the three greatest women novelists in our language, four girls out of a class of thirty-five volunteered an answer. The first said Edna Lyall; the second, Ellen Thorneycroft Fowler; the third, Marie Corelli: and the fourth, Augusta Jane Evans Wilson. I have served under three Boards—Otago, Nelson, and Southland; and this approximately has been my experience in each. What is wrong? In the first place, no' doubt, the fact that the vast majority of our students are the children of comparatively illiterate parents. In the second place, the fact that this is a commercial age, and that there is no great popular regard for culture. In the third place, perhaps, the fact that the syllabus in our primary schools is overcrowded, though of this, happily, I am not at all competent to judge. In the fourth place, the fact that in English more than in any other subject we are entirely without suitable text-books. In history and geography, in mathematics and in science, the improvement in books during the last five years has been very marked indeed • but in English, though new books are continually leaving the press, they are simply the same old dreary dishes served up again with salt. Superstitions die hard, and the great superstition of the begetters of hand-books on English seems to be that Dry-as-dust is a god, and that Brightness, Vividness, Sprightliness, Grace, are among the seven deadly sins. And now, if I may go a little further, I would venture, in conclusion, to suggest that in my humble opinion and I know I am the obscurest witness that has appeared before this Commission what
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[O. DUFF.
is stultifying and strangling all literary instruction in this Dominion is that our teachers of literature are not also producers of literature; in one word, that the great and insurmountable obstacle to vivid literary instruction is not after all the illiteracy of parents, not after all the utilitarianism of the age, not the syllabus, and not the books, but simply the teachers themselves. From, the primary school to the University our teachers are chosen not because they have shown that they possess the literary sense, but almost invariably because of academic distinction, which, as every one knows, may have nothing whatever to do with the real literaryinstinct. It is recognized in most arts that before a man is competent to instruct he must be competent to perform; but in the literary art, for some strange reason, it seems sufficient if, in some remote period of youth, a man has learnt to talk glibly- about other performers. Which of the gentlemen present could name offhand three teachers of literature in this Dominion who are known also from Auckland to the Bluff for their contributions even to the literature of journalism? Who could name them if he were given an hour to think? Yet who, however slight his acquaintance with science might be, or shall we say with the graphic arts, could not name at once three teachers of science who are also men of science, or three teachers of art whose work the public knows? What research is to the man of science, original composition is to him who would guide the pen; yet how many of all the teachers of English in this Dominion have ever advanced, or even attempted to advance, from the frigid academic essays of youth to vital pulsing English? I am not sure, indeed, that in many respects the junior reporter of one of our daily papers is not more competent to teach the actual art of expression than some of our University professors. What would you think of a teacher of the piano who, however wonderful his theoretical knowledge might be, had never got past the five-finger exercises 1 Yet if a teacher of English is wanted to-morrow, who will ask to see his work ? From the cradle to the graye —since the higher you go the more dead the work seems to be —our English classes are inspired and controlled by men who not only are not creators, but who in many instances give no indication whatever of any special love for the creations even of our greatest men. Yet day after day, and year after year, we go searching for figs on thistles. 3. Mr. Wells.] The children of whom you speak, do they come straight from the primary school ?—No. 4. There is probably a considerable loss of time between their leaving school and coining to you? —In a number of cases. 5. Does that not point to a great waste that goes on in the intervening times?— Undoubtedly, in some subjects. I doubt if much waste goes on in English. 6. A pupil would hardly get a Standard VI proficiency certificate on such work as you have described?—At the present time—l am not quoting from the actual figures—we have 140 students in our Technical College here, and the vast majority have proficiency certificates, and the exercises done this year bear our my statements. 7. A great many of them have been away from school for a number of years?— Not those •at our Technical Day College. The great majority of those have just come in, and obtained their proficiency certificates last year. 8. Your remarks apply to them? —Practically, except so far as a little grammatical accuracy is concerned ; but their ability to express themselves is little less than that of the older students. 9. You recognize the fact that a great number of these pupils come from homes where they hear very little good English, and where they read no English? —Undoubtedly. 10. You complain of the lack of good books from the teacher's point of view. Have you tried to alter that yourself in the way of writing a text-book? —I have not, 11. The Chairman.] What is your age? —Twenty-nine. 12. Mr. Wells.] What proportion of students in the day Technical School here take up a commercial course? —I should say about 80 out of 140. 13. Mr. Kirk.] How long does a student stay at your school? —The school here has just started. 14. How long, as a rule, have they Stayed in the classes you have been connected with? —In Dunedin a very large number stayed two years. 15. Would you say, speaking generally, that most of them would stay about two years? —I should say that the majority would. 16. And are they fairly fit for their life-work when they leave? Is their education fairly complete after two years?—l should say a great deal might as well not be done. 17. Do you think that this waste could be overcome by compelling a pupil immediately he leaves a primary school to continue his education at a continuation class in the evening?— Yes, it would be a check on the waste, but there would probably also be a difference in the tone and temper of the class. In Dunedin particularly my experience was that there was a great deal of real desire on the part of the students to improve themselves. I should think that if attendance at the classes were made compulsory, perhaps 40 per cent, would not be enthusiastic about the work, and that would alter the tone of the class. 18. Do you not think that the teacher's influence counts for a good deal? —It counts for everything. 19. Do you not think that even with unwilling ones the influence of the teacher would do something?—lf the teacher were an angel it might. 20. If these classes were made compulsory would there be any justification for day technical schools? —Undoubtedly, I think. 21. What would be the justification?—A compulsory school would mean no more than five hours a week attendance. In that time they could not get wdthin measureable distance of what we can give them in five hours a day, and there are in every centre scores of boys and girls who, if there were no day technical college, would go to work or stay at home and make no progress whatever.
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22. Your statement is that the teaching of English in the day technical schools is much ahead of the teaching of English that goes on in other schools? —I do not suggest that. My remarks do not apply particularly to the primary schools. 23. To what schools do your remarks apply?— The evidence I have adduced as to the ignorance of students applies to technical and continuation classes, both day and evening. My statement as to the lack of inspiration on the part of the teacher apply to all those classes where teachers specialize—not to the primary-school teacher any more than the teacher of English, geometry, or science. In the majority of secondary schools throughout the Dominion, I should think, the tendency is for special subjects to be taken by special teachers. 24. Have you come in contact with the leading teachers in the primary schools in Dunedin, Nelson, and Southland? —Not very particularly. The teacher I am talking about is the teacher of English. 25. The primary-school teacher teaches English in the primary schools? —I think that in the primary schools the teaching of English is probably as effective or more effective than in the secondary schools, because in the secondary schools the teaching becomes more and more an accumulation of facts about English. 26. Do you know what is going on in the teaching of English in the primary schools? —No, 1 have not any special knowledge. 27. Mr. Poland.] What remedy do you suggest should be applied to improve the teaching of English in the secondary- and primary schools?— That in making appointments to positions, especially the literary positions, some account should be taken of a teacher's real enthusiasm for his subject. 28. Is not such account taken now? —It is not my experience that in secondary schools any special account is taken of the teacher's personal literary enthusiasm. 29. How do you judge the qualifications of a primary-school teacher for this work, except through the Inspector?—l should say that in the primary school there is more possibility of knowing whether a teacher has enthusiasm for a subject, because the Inspector is coming continually in contact with them and reporting on their work. In the secondary schools the work is more particularly the preparing of pupils for examinations. That is to say, less account is taken of the fact that a teacher may have a very real desire for literature than for the fact that he has successfully implanted certain facts about it. 30. Do you think it is possible to obtain a teacher for every primary school with a special aptitude or qualification for teaching English?— No. 31. Were you born in New Zealand?— Yes. 32. What further education did you receive after leaving the primary- school?— First of all, two years in the District High School at Lawrence, and two years in the Boys' High School at Dunedin. I was for a period on a farm after that, and subsequently put in two years at the University. 33. Mr. Davidson.] Can you account for the alleged colossal ignorance displayed by primaryschool pupils who enter the classes in the technical school? —I cannot account for their ignorance in English except by supposing that they have not been taught. 34. What subject in the primary-school syllabus would you think had been most neglected to account for this colossal ignorance?—My work has been almost completely with the teaching of English to students. 35. Would you say that reading was badly taught?— The reading is badly done when the students come into my class. 36. Have you seen a lesson in reading given in the primary school in the last ten years?— Within the last two years. 37. Can you suggest any method that might be adopted to improve the teaching of the subject?—l have been impressed by the fact that students have been taught rather by rule than by suggestion. 38. Do you approve of school libraries? —I do. 39. If in each standard in a large school there were, say, a hundred books, and those pupils who were supposed to read particularly well were allowed a considerable time for silent reading of books selected by the teacher, would that tend to improve the English? —I should think so. 40. Have you seen it done?— Not in the primary school, but I am doing it in the Technical College. 41. If a child in passing through the primary school read at least a dozen books each year, would it be possible for a child to display such colossal ignorance as you have referred to?—I should think not. 42. Then you suggest that some method of that sort should be adopted?— Yes. 43. I understand you to say that the large proportion of pupils who come forward to you are the holders of proficiency certificates? —Yes. 44. Mr. Poland.] Did you have any training as a teacher yourself prior to taking up your w 7 ork I —No. 45. Mr. Davidson.] Would you be surprised to know that the principal of one of our important high schools has stated before this Commission that the free pupils who enter his school are very well equipped indeed in English ?—I should be very much surprised. David Ernest Hansen examined on oath. (No. 75.) 1. The Chairman.] What is your position? —I am Principal of the day Technical College under the jurisdiction of the Southland Education Board. 2. What experience have you had as a teacher?—l have had six years of secondary-school training, five years of New Zealand University training, and two years of German university
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training. lam a Master of Science with first-class honours, and a Master of Arts, New Zealand University. I hold the Doctor's degree of the German university. 3. If you have prepared a statement for the Commission will you kindly read it? —I have a short statement, as follows: A considerable number of the boys and girls in attendance at "evening classes in the technical colleges are under the age of sixteen years, and are employed for eight hours each day in offices or at their trades. In many cases they spend three evenings a week on the special subjects connected with their trade or profession, and on the English and arithmetic which they are required to take to qualify them if they are free-place students. I hold that young people so physically immature are incapable of benefiting from studies carried on in this way. If they have been trained only in the primary schools, they have difficulty enough in grasping the elements of the new subjects which they are desirous of studying, whilst their knowledge of arithmetic and of English is not sufficient to render the continuation of their studies in these subjects an easy matter. And when these boys and girls have spent eight hours in an office or at their trade, physical weariness has reduced their mental activity so much below the normal that the effort they must make to concentrate upon their study is absolutely harmful. I am not ashamed to admit that boys have fallen fast asleep under my eyes during the progress of most interesting experimental work, for I recognize that the fault lies in that such students are expected to obtain their education under such conditions. Their spirit in entering the class-room despite the feeling of physical weariness is indeed laudable, but their progress in their studies can be but slow, whilst they are giving a distinct check to their physical development. One of two steps should be taken : either free places in the evening classes should not be granted to students under the age of sixteen years, or else arrangements should be made for them to leave their trades for an hour or so during the day to enable them to attend day classes. Numbers of boys and girls are undoubtedly withdrawn too young from day technical schools and put to trades with the idea that they can carry on in the evening classes sufficient studies to fit them for their career. In this small proportion of cases it is necessary that boys and girls of this age should help to swell the income of their parents, but at least they should be prevented from giving a check to their physical development by overtaxing their strength and energy. Our day technical schools have been rather blindly condemned as the training-ground for expert shorthand writers and typists, but a careful study of the subjects taught should be sufficient to dispel such ideas. It is true that a large number of the students in every day technical college enrol for the commercial course, but I take it as a pleasing matter that they enrol at all. In the time-table of work of the Southland Day Technical College, only eight hours per week are given by each commercial student to commercial correspondence and office routine, shorthand, typewriting, and book-keeping: the remaining seventeen hours are spent in the study of the English language and literature, mathematics, history, geography, civics, drawing, physical culture, and some manual subject. In other words, by offering eight hours per week of commercial work to students, we can claim the remaining seventeen in which to develop them, by means of the more truly educational subjects. In the College the commercial course attracted some eighty students : I claim that this course has therefore proved its worth, for it has brought in eighty boys and girls who otherwise would almost certainly have never had further educational training. This is shown particularly well here. Last year there was no Southland Technical Day College; this year it has sprung into existence with 140 students. And yet the attendances of the high schools in the surrounding districts have been practically unaltered, for we have drawn our students from a source from which the high schools do not draw them and should not draw them : our pupils are from among those boys and girls whose education would previously have ceased with their attendance at the primary schools. Admittedly the commercial course is not the one most to be advocated, but the number of students taking the domestic, trade and agricultural courses, are far from discouraging, particularly as the domestic and trade students can see so little immediate return for their studies, and as the spirit of the farming community generally is very conservative as regards agricultural education. Another point of note is that, even in the commercial courses, it is the object of no technical day college to provide a means of earning an immediate livelihood. The aims throughout are to elevate each trade by giving to students a broad grasp and understanding of its main principles rather than a minute knowledge of the details and technicalities that help in wage-earning, and to elevate the workers in those trades by instructing them freely in educational subjects upon which their wage-earning does not depend. It is recognized that technical education both in day schools and in evening classes is becoming more and more a necessity, and unsparing thought and effort is being given to its development by the Directors of the technical schools in every town and by the Education Department itself But in some ways there is sti'l too much individual and too little combined effort on the parts of the schools, and the technical educational system in each town stands almost as a unit by itself. Certainly the courses of instruction are common to all the colleges, but the matter ends there. In most cases a student who attends day or evening classes has benefited through becoming a fitter or more enlightened worker, but combined action should be taken by all technical colleges , to make the employers of labour recognize substantially the improvements effected in the workers through their attendance at the classes. In most cases students do not receive from their colleges a certificate or diploma for having performed a satisfactory course of work. The Education Department has conferred a boon upon the pupils of the primary schools in providing a uniform proficiency certificate, which they may obtain on leaving school after a satisfactory course of work, and official and general recognition is now given to these certificates. For the secondary schools the Department has provided Civil Service and University Examinations, and certificates and general recognition is given to those students who have passed them. It is in this respect that the system of technical education is wanting: we still lack the power to allow our students to sit for examination intended expressly for technical students, in order
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that they may gain a certificate of proficiency in general and technical subjects, issued not byeach individual college but by the Education Department. Full recognition of the work done; will not be given by the pubhc, and technical day schools and eveniug schools will not be placed in their proper position, until the Department institutes examinations for technical students and jssues certificates to deserving students. Although students who hold primary-school certificates of proficiency, or who have passed either of the Civil Service Examinations, or the Matriculation. Examinaton, are given a certain status in every Government Department. The status of even the most satisfactory of our technical students in any Government Department appears to depend entirely upon his own personality and upon the judgment formed of his ability by those who come more or less casually in contact with him. 4. Mr. Wells.] I gather from your statement that you think under present conditions the continuation classes and evening classes are largely a failure? —No, I can hardly say that, because a great number of the students are not under sixteen years. I think they are a failure so far as the younger students are concerned. 5. If there were a gap between leaving the primary school and attaining the age of sixteen, at which age they might begin to attend the continuation classes, do you not think it would have a bad effect—would they not lose a great deal of ground I —l do not think it would apply to manycases, for the reason that with free education the majority of parents are able to keep their boys and girls at school up to that age. 6. Do I understand you to say the majority of clr'ldren are kept at school until they are sixteen?—l hold that the majority could be and ought to be. 7. Do you know that a large percentage leave before they pass the Sixth Standard even? —I am referring particularly to the technical-college students, many of whom hold free places. 8. You are referring to the day school?— Both day and evening classes. 9. I am asking particularly about the boys and girls who leave school without passing Standard VI, and also about those who pass Standard VI and go to work. Do you not think anything can be done with those young people during those two or three years?—l do not think it should be done in night classes after a hard day 7's work. 10. You think the only wav of meeting the difficulty is to arrange for time off during the day?—l certainly think if if could be arranged it would be a very fine thing. 11. Do you know at all how the employers would view this idea of letting their boys off; have you discussed the question with them?— No. I know nothing of the feeling towards it in this town. 12. Is it done in any other place to your knowledge?—l understand in Christchurch certain arrangements have been made by employers, on the renresentation of the Technical College Board. 13. Do you know anything of the practice in Germany? —No, my work there was more in connection with the university. 14. Did you go through any course of training in teaching?— No. 15. You think it is a pity that so large a proportion of the pupils take up the commercial course rather than the technical course? —I think the large majority of those students will take up the work any how, and the question is, shall we have our clerks and typists well educated or shall we not? That is how I regard it. There are eighty out of 140 students taking up the commercial work. 16. Would you rather a larger proportion took up technical work? —I would prefer it. If would be better for the community. 17. Have you taken any steps to put that view to the students? —On enrolling I always do so. I never enrol more commercial students than I can possibly help. Still, I am thankful to get them under the present conditions. 18. It has been stated that there is overlapning between the work of the technical day schools and the high schools: what is your opinion?— Well, I think I should be in a position to judge, because it is not long since I was in high schools and secondary schools myself. Ido not think there is overlapping. Further than that, I do not think any effort should be made to combine an out-and-out technical course and an out-and-out secondary course in the same school where it is of tiny size. Our syllabus of work, our text-books, are quite different. 19. In a town of, say, five thousand inhabitants, do you think the technical day school and the high school might work together?—l think so. but not in a towm of this size. 20. You cannot tell us where any economy might be exercised without endangering the efficiency of the technical work? —No, I cannot. It could not be exercised in the salaries of the instructors. . ..'.'■' 21. Mr. Kirk? Do you know of any place where the technical and secondary subjects are taught in one school? In a number of the district high schools is not shorthand and book-keeping taught at the present time?—Tt is In the Nelson College, I know. 22. What is the result educationally ?—Even in the Town of Nelson it is not satisfactory—l feel sure of that. 23. Then, why would you urge it? —For economy. 24. But is that economy or false economy?—l am not familiar with that phase of the subject. 25 Yon say boys and girls under the age of sixteen should not be forced to. go to the technical schools in the evenings I— Those who have been working eight hours during the day should not be ar\ ff\y*f* p H 26 What do you. think they would be doing if they were not at a technical school?— Those who had been working at some of the trades would be at home in bed. Some of them do hard manual work. , L^-ii 27. In recent years have not the hours of InWriir both for old and young people been greatly curtailed? —Yes, I am fairly conversant with sbr-inl conditions.
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zo. you compare me pnysicai nrness 01 loose men wno nave succeeaea in wording long hours in the past, and who have themselves worked hard in the evenings, with the physical fitness of the boys and girls whom, you would debar from going to technical classes in the evenings now? —I do not know under what circumstances they could be compared. 29. Do you know of any cases where men have risen to great eminence and who yet have had -to work very hard for their living besides attending night classes? —Yes, there are cases, but I think they are to some extent isolated, and for that reason they are known. In most cases they are men of great bodily- strength and vitality. 30. Have these moving pictures many attractions for the young in your district? —Well, I think so. I do not patronize them myself. 31. Would there be more boys and girls of the age of fourteen or fifteen at picture-shows than at the technical school? —-I attended a picture-show once and boys of that age were not prominent in the audience. 32. You spoke of the technical school being condemned for teaching, among other things, shorthand and typewriting. Is it not that they are praised for the work they are doing in that direction :is that not a proper function of the technical school? —I take it that the function of a technical school is to educate as many of our young people as possible who would not otherwise obtain good education. They are attracted to the school by an offer of education and of a vocation at the same time. I hold the offer of a vocation as a means to an end, and that end is education. 33. Is not the technical school the proper place to teach shorthand and typewriting?— Under the circumstances, yes. 34. Mr. Poland.] Do you think that typewriting could be taught to a boy or girl after leaving school and going to an office in about three weeks or a month? —No. 35. Do you think they could learn in three weeks or a month by going to a school for that special purpose—say the}' went every night for an hour?— Not by a great deal. In my own classes we have had commercial students at the machines for two hours a week for fifteen weeks, and they will not be efficient at the end of the year. 36. Do many pupils attend the agricultural course? —We started with ten day pupils: we have now nine. 37. How many of those come from the country"?— About seven. 38. Have you many coming from the country for the commercial course?— About a third of them from the country. Some of them come from country towns such as Winton and Mataura. I have not inquired as to the occupations of their parents, but I do not think many of the commercial students come from farms. 39. What is the number taking the commercial course? —About eighty. 40. Do any of those taking the agricultural course come from Winton or Mataura ?—One is from Riverton; otherwise I believe they are all from farms—that is, seven out of the nine. 41. Mr. Davidson.] Do you think one-third of the total school-time should be devoted to commercial subjects? —I think that is a fair proportion. 42. How many typewriting machines are there in your school? —Twenty-five. 43. What is approximately the cost of those machines? —I could not say. Many of them are second-hand machines. 44. You seem to indicate that were it not for the attraction of the two subjects—shorthand and typewriting—you would have a much smaller number of pupils at your school? —That is so. 45. Do you think the country is getting an adequate return for the money spent on those two subjects?—-In the betterment of that number of students it might be so. 46. If you were told that by fairly close application a person of average intelligence could learn typewriting in a month would you deny it? —It would depend on the age of the student. 47. Say, a boy or girl of fifteen or sixteen? —I have not met many children who would do it. 48. What about the efficiency of the work done in shorthand : are your students subjected to an examination at the end of the year?— They are subjected to examination three times a year. 49. Does any outside examiner test the work in shorthand? —No; there is always a departmental examination which can be passed by junior free-place students. 50. Are they granted a certificate in shorthand? —That appears to depend entirely on the authorities in charge of each individual college. 51. What is the average speed test after a year's work in shorthand? —I am afraid I could not say. This is my first year in charge of the College. 52. Mr. Hoz/hen.] If a girl takes a commercial course do you insist that she shall take any domestic instruction? —Yes. lam a firm believer in girls taking a course of cookery. Personally I hold that every girl should be instructed in both cookery and dressmaking. 53. What about general housewifery—the management of a house? —I think if she is getting both cooker}' and dressmaking in connection with the commercial course she is doing very well indeed. 54. You know housekeeping courses are given in Germany and Switzerland? —Yes. 55. Do you think they are good?— They are, but then the spirit of the people is so different. The German woman counts her housekeeping everything. William Armstrong MoCaw examined on oath. (No. 76.) 1. The Chairman.'] What is jour position ?—I am Director of Technical Education of the Southland District, and also architect to the Board. 2. Have you a statement to make?—l Ao not believe in centralization, nor in the amalgamation of the existing Education Boards. I believe that the Boards have done and are doing very effective eduoational work. They are conversant, with local require-
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merits, and are in touch with the residents of their districts to a degree impossible of attainment by any centrally constituted authority. I believe, however, that the size of the Boards might be more evenly balanced. For instance, the Southland Education Board should have its field of operations extended northwards to Clinton; the geographical situation and the railway facilities within this area, converging as they do on Invercargill as a centre, make this, for economic reasons, a most desirable proposition. 1 believe that one controlling authority should govern primary, high school, secondary, and technical-school secondary education, but not evening or day vocational classes in the larger centres. These latter should be controlled by a partially separate body of practical experts, composed of the Central Ward members of the Education Board and others elected by the citizens. Why I advocate this is for the reason that members of the Education Boards are partially elected by country Committees, and cannot have any real interest in the vocational work carried on in the towns; whilst, on the other hand, a technical governing body composed of townsmen and employers would take a more active end progressive interest in the institution and the welfare of their own apprentices and employees. Were it made compulsory for all children to attend the primary school until they had obtained a certificate of proficiency in Standard VI, and then to continue two years at a high school or technical school, the high schools and day technical schools might well be amalgamated. There would be this difficulty, however, to contend with. Boys and girls who mean to go forward for matriculation and a University course would require to pass the Standard VI examination at the same age as now, unless the University regulations were relaxed; whilst, on the other hand, I believe every boy and girl who passes Standard VI with proficiency, at no matter what age, should be admitted to a free place in the day technical school on the condition that he remained therein for at least two years. In such case the students attending the vocational courses and those attending the University courses of the suggested combined institution would vary so much in age that they would fail to coalesce in the English, mathematical, and science subjects common to both institutions. This difficulty, however, could bo overcome by a judicious arrangement of the time-table, in order that students in the different courses might be taught in separate classes by the same form-master, who would adapt himself to circumstances. In order that this amalgamation might be made thoroughly effective, certain changes would require to be made in the Civil Service Examinations. It is a mistake to suppose that only pupils who pass this examination at an early age are the best qualified to enter the Civil or any other service, and are likely to develop into the best men and women in the service ot' the State. Mental development in many cases is of slow growth, and very generally those who develop slowly are of very stable character and possessed of a good degree of common-sense, and such men the nation also stands in need of. The Civil Service Examinations should be extended and adapted to permit students who have been trained in the vocational courses to' sit for the examination, even though they may fail to pass the examination at as early an age as those trained in the University courses. For undoubtedly such students would make the most useful and successful workers in certain branches of their country's service. Another matter arising out of this phase of the question should receive attention. At present a youth who passes the Junior Civil Service Examination is offered a situation in the service of the State at a commencing salary of ,£4O per annum. The same youth, no matter what course he may have taken at the high school, if he elects to become an apprentice to either the engineering or building professions is paid the munificent sum of ss. per week for a start—not enough to keep him in shoe-leather or overalls. No lad whom the State has educated at its expense up to this stage should be asked to serve a private employer at less remuneration than is offered by the State itself. And, provided his technical vocational course has been on the lines of the trade or profession he elects to follow in private life, he should be allowed to enter as a second-year apprentice. Provision should also be made for all apprentices in the larger centres to be allowed time off to enable them to atteud day classes for at least four hours per week. Were such a provision generally observed employers would soon realize that the time thus spent would return them fourfold in the increased efficiency of their charges. Manual training in schools : The list of subjects from which a teacher may choose those he considers most suited to the requirements of his school or to the capabilities of himself or his assistants is, to my mind, too comprehensive. At present, with the constant change of teachers taking place, at least in the Southland District, it is almost an impossibility to secure co-ordination or continuation in any set course. In classes Pto Standard II the list should remain unaltered, but in Standard 111 and upwards it would be better to confine the subjects taught to, say, cardboard modelling and brush drawing. These subjects would secure a fitting continuation of paper-folding and plasticinemodelling in the infant classes, and would form a sound basis for the more advanced subjects of woodwork, cookery, elementary physical measurements, and agriculture. In the upper standards these subjects, together with advanced needlework, should be extended as far as possible, but woodwork and cookery should not be introduced until the pupils have passed into Standard V. In actual experience Standard IV pupils are found to be neither old enough nor physically capable of benefiting by these classes to the extent desirable. Their time would be more profitably employed if engaged in ordinary school-work. Besides, in view of the large number of boys arid girls who are now taking, and who in future may be expected to take, in ever-increasing numbers, a secondary day technical course of training, a two-years course (Standard V and Standard VI) in these subjects in the primary school is quite sufficient to lay a solid groundwork for the intelligent and successful continuation of them in the secondary schools. Meantime, however, were Standard IV excluded from schools with an attendance of under 200, the capitation would require to be slightly raised in order that the salaries of the special instructor might be continued without reduction. In Southland, for instance, there are four efficiently equipped and staffed centres where instruction in the important subjects of woodwork and cookery ia
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given to children belonging to no fewer than sixty-seven schools, as well as to the pupils in the Invercargill Day Technical College and the Gore High School. From these schools somewhere about seventeen hundred children attend and receive valuable instruction. In order, however, that the centres may be financially sound, every available pupil within reach is required, including, those in Standard IV, but i would like to see the time when standard IV pupils could be "done without.'"'- 1 consider that manual instruction in the primary- schools is of the utmost importance to our young and rising generation. In the kindergarten • department, the infant mind, by the simple process of folding exactly a square piece of paper, grasps the mathematical truth that things which are equal to (lie same thing are equal to one another, and the transition from the primary to the secondary stages of mathematical reasoning becomes comparatively easy of attainment. Cardboard modelling, introducing as it does the use of the rule, the knife, and the compass, develops still further the foundation laid in the paper-folding class; whilst in the application and manipulation of the rule and woodworking tools to the construction of joints in woodwork, combined with the necessary drawing, the pupil finds an exercise that taxes his intelligence and manipulative skill to the highest extent. Then, in cookery for girls we have a most sensible and useful science : for in the midst of all the present-day turmoil regarding men's rights and women's wrongs neither side has ever attempted to dispute the fact that woman reigns supreme in the kitchen. In the Southland District excellent work in both these lattersubjects is being done, and were these and kindred subjects removed from the syllabus the loss would be keenly felt. Returns, &c. :It is necessary that, for the information of the Department, full and complete returns should be supplied by the Boards. But in the technical department at least there is a belief that much of the information required might be more simply obtained. For instance, in getting recognition of the classes conducted in the primary schools, forms 111 and I are used. A couple of forms 111 are required for every school, and where work is being carried on in advanced needlework, elementary physical measurements, &c, another couple of forms I are necessary. These latter forms have all to be signed by the head teacher, the Inspector, and the Secietary befoie transmission. Similarly, when checking for capitation, two copies of forms V have to be sent out to each school: these have to be filled in, signed, and returned to the Board's office, where a compilation is made on another form before transmission to Wellington. In addition, special registers have to be kept for all classes recognized on form I, and these registers have to be checked and the attendances computed before making the claims. It is believed that simpler forms could be evolved, both for recognition of the classes and for making capitation claims, which would give, without so much clerical work, all the information necessary. Probably also even the special registers might be dispensed with, the quarterly average attendance being substituted in their stead. The teachers have to be trusted, at any rate, and if for some good reason —say, inclemency of the weather—instruction is not given on the day actually set down on the schedule, no possible harm could result were the time-table temporarily rearranged and the class held the next day. There is need foi greater simplicity in the issue of free railway passes to children attending at specially equipped centres for manual training. At present for every individual child who has to travel by train theie has to be fixed up a certificate giving name, age, and place of residence (particulars of no value to the Railway Department), as well as certain other information of more importance. These certificates have all to be signed and forwarded to the Stationmasters at the nearest centres, who issue individual tickets before they will allow the children to travel. Each child has to retain possession of his ticket and show the tioket personally to the guard when demanded, or else pay the ordinary fare. The result is tickets are occasionally lost, and the Railway Department will not issue a duplicate except on payment of the sum of 2s. As the passes last only for a period of three months, the whole process has to be gone over again at the end of that period, and as the value of passes required is approximately £50 for each of two centres every quarter, a considerable amount of clerical work is involved, which appears to be largely a waste of time. One single certificate for each school giving the names of the pupils and such particulars as are really necessary should be amply sufficient to enable the Railway Department to issue one genera] ticket, which should be retained by the teacher accompanying the children to the manual-training centre. If the Education Department could see its way to extend the principle of free transport to other means of conveyance besides that of the considerable benefit would result. Meanwhile the Board can without cost bring in to a centre by rail children living at a distance of sixty miles; but for children living within one mile and a half from a centre, and for whose conveyance buses have to be requisitioned, the Board has, out of capitation, to bear half the cost of the transport service. One case in point: This season the children attending the Fortrose Public School —a township distant about four miles from the Waimahaka Railway-station—were anxious to attend the classes in Invercargill. A bus runs between the two townships named, but the cost of the coach transport prevented the desire of the children and of the Board from being fulfilled. I have no suggestions to make regarding evening classes. The regulations regarding them, so far as my experience has gone, have worked satisfactorily. 3.. Mr. Wells.] You say you do not believe in the amalgamation of education districts?— Yes. 4. Do you know the size of some of the smaller districts?—l believe the Timaru Board is a small one. 5. Do you know that in one education district there are only about a thousand school-children and in another eighteen hundred to two thousand? —I understand that. 6. Do you think it necessary that a district should have the whole of the machinery incidental to the control of an education district when there is only that number of children?—lt depends on geographical position. I know the smallest districts are on the West Coast. 7. Do you think in certain cases amalgamation might be advisable? —Oh, yes. 8. Are you in charge of the evening classes at the Technical School? —Yes,
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9. What teachers are you able to secure for those classes? —We aim at getting the best available. They are trained teachers in every case. 10. You think children should be compelled to attend school until they obtain their Sixth Standard certificate: how would you make that hard-and-fast rule?— That is an ideal which I think should be aimed at. ■--.-.. 11. You are also architect to the Board 1- —Yes. .... 12. On going round the schools to-day I noticed they used long desks and seats without backs. Do you think that an ideal method of seating the children? —It is not an ideal system, but it seems to me a system which gives the greatest amount of accommodation for the money available. The question has been before the Board on more than one occasion, and one of the primary schools has been fitted up with the dual desks. At first the master approved of them, but he would now be glad to get rid of them. 13. The headmaster now prefers the long desk without back to the dual desk? —That is so. 14. What reason does he advance? —I do not know that he advances any special reason. Perhaps it is more a matter of £s. d. We can get the long desks without back made at a cost of about 7s. 6d. per pupil; the dual desks come to about £1 apiece. 15. Does it not seem strange that the dual desks can be obtained in other districts and yet not here? —There is no great demand for them here. There is only a very limited number, of large schools in the Southland District. Most of the schools are in the country districts, where the school buildings are used not only for primary-school purposes, but for halls and amusements of all sorts. The desks are invariably put aside when there is a dance or anything else in the building. With the dual desk that could not be done, and it would practically protiib.it the use of the schools for such purposes. 16. Is the use of schools for dances, and so on, favoured here? —It is largely in the control of the School Committees. 17. Is it not discountenanced by the Board? —I do not think so —that is, where there is.no other building procurable. 18. Is not the dual desk the most economical from a room point of view? —I am aware that, with a pn per arrangement of the desks, you can seat as many pupils in the room as with the old desks. 19. Can you not seat more with the dual desks? —I do not think so. 20. You must remember that there is space left between the form and the desk for the teacher to pass along. That is not so in the case of the dual desk ?—I understand that. 21. Do you not think that the system of seating children on forms w-ithout backs has very, serious drawbacks ?—I do not know. I think there is more made of it than there is reason for. The children when leaning forward to write do not lean their backs against the back of the desk. In oral lessons they are asked to place the form back against the desk behind. 22. Have you noticed the position the children adopt when sitting on these backless forms?-— No, I have not noticed it. 23. I noticed in going round the rooms that most of them receive their main light from the back: do you think that is a good system? —I read one of the very latest authorities the. other day, who said that lighting from the side was as good as the other. 24. Have you anything to do with the fumigation of schools? —No, that is done by the Health authorities. We have made no provision for anything of that sort, 25. Mr. Kirk.] I noticed in some of the schools there are two classes in one room : do you think it would be a good idea to have McCabe hangers between them? —Whenever there are two classes put into one room we provide a baize curtain at a much less cost than McCabe hangers. 26. Does it answer the same purpose?—lt seems to. The introduction of McCabe hangers would mean a great expense to the Boards. 27. Are these green-baize curtains very sanitary?—l think so. 28. Do they not collect the dust fearfully? —I have no doubt they must. . ■.-. 29. Do you think they act sufficiently to deaden sound from one class to another ?-r-You would require to get the opinion of experienced teachers on that point. No complaint has been received by the Board up to the present. 30. It was suggested to us in Auckland that it would be a good thing if the architects of the various Education Boards submitted their plans to a central architect, who would be supposed to be in touch with all the latest ideas and improvements : have you anything to say against such a course? —I do not think much good would result. I may say- we have already received sketches from the central Department in Wellington that were unworkable. 31. From an architect's point of view? —Yes. There are numbers of varying conditions in the different districts, and one central authority could never take all these things into consideration. 32. I do not mean that the central authority should provide the plans—the local authority would do that, and submit them, with reasons?— The trouble is that most of the school buildings evolve themselves :as the attendance grow 7 s we add to them. 33. Mr. Poland.] You say you prefer the green-baize curtain rather than the McCabe hanger, because it is cheaper, and that you also put up with the long desks because they are cheaper. If the_ single desk is preferable, and if the McCabe hanger is preferable and in the interests of the children, do you think consideration of expense should deter this Board more than any other Board in New Zealand from providing the best possible conditions for the children?— No. Provided we come to the conclusion that the McCabe hanger and the single or dual desk are better, then I say no consideration should deter us from getting the necessary funds; but I might point out that it would involve a very large expense, especially in the Southland District, and indeed throughout the Dominion. I have visited the school buildings from the: Bluff to Auckland ■■ Our
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schools are built with low galleries, 3 ft. wide, and to introduce single or dual desks we would require to alter every floor in every building we possess. Again, to introduce the McCabe hanger we would have to leave a big space between toe galleries. .34. But if other districts can do it?— But other districts have not done it so far as McCabe hangers are concerned. 35. But as to single and dual desks? —I am quife prepared to introduce them if we have the necessary funds. 36. If educational experts are pretty unanimous in stating that single desks are the best possible, and that the dual desk is much preferable to the long desk, do you not think the Southland Education Board should endeavour to improve the conditions in its schools gradually and as soon as possible?— Yes, I think so. 37. 1 understood you to say that you did not approve of the teaching of cookery in the Fourth Standard in the primary schools?—l think it would be better to leave it until the Fifth and Sixth Standards. 38. If it is a fact that nearly half the children attending the primary schools never pass through the Fifth and Sixth Standards at the present time, do you not think the Fourth Standard children should have an opportunity to receive instruction in this important subject?— Yes. Unless you make it compulsory on children to remain at school until they have passed the Sixth Standard I would allow cookery to be taught in the Fourth Standard. 39. Mr. Davidson.] Besides being Director of Technical Schools you have complete charge of the manual work in the primary schools? —Yes. 40. How do you account for the fact that 97 per cent, of the schools in this district do some form of manual work, and in such districts as Auckland, for instance,, the percentage is only 43, and that it goes down to 26 per cent, in one of the West Coast districts? —I cannot account for it at all. I may say our Inspectors have taken the greatest interest in this work, and encourage it to the very best of their ability. The result is that the teachers have responded. 41. Do you consider that the 110 uncertificated teachers in this district are able to satisfactorily do the manual work prescribed?—l think so, because most of them have passed through it now in the higher standards, and also we have a training class on Saturday which all attend. 42. What is the greatest distance children have to travel to the woodwork or cookery classes? —From Lumsden to Gore—thirty-six miles—is the greatest distance. 43. When do they leave home?— Sometimes as early as 6 o'clock in the morning. 44. And when do they arrive home? —Not earlier than 6 p.m., and sometimes later. At one school only they are away from home thirteen hours. 45. Do you think that is a satisfactory arrangement?—l may state that in order to modify the unsatisfactory- conditions surrounding these manual-training classes the Education Board has allowed the attendance at them to be for the whole day, with the result that in twelve to thirteen weeks we cover the whole course of the year's operations. It is no great hardship for these children to come even this distance, but if requires a certain amount of self-sacrifice to do it. 46. Do you not find that the parents object to children being away thirteen hours from home? -—Only in one or two isolated cases. 47. Do the teachers complain about the children being away a whole day from ordinary work for thirteen weeks? —They have raised no serious objection to it. 48. Do you think yourself that is a satisfactory method of treating these subjects?—lt is not as satisfactory, I admit, as attendance so-many hours per week extended over the school year, but this is better than nothing. 49. Do you know whether the practice of carrying children such great distances to attend woodwork and cookery instruction is carried on in any other district in New Zealand? —It is being carried on to a certain extent in the Dunedin and Timaru and North Canterbury Districts, but not to the same extent as in Southland. 50. You stated that an immense amount of clerical work was involved in connection with the returns required? —Yes, a considerable amount, 51. Can you suggest any other method of payment except capitation grants for this work? —I have never thought of any other method of payment. The method of payment is satisfactory enough. 52. Taking the two subjects, cardboard and brushwork, if the grants to Education Boards were slightly increased, could they not form part of the general work of the school and so dispense with these returns altogether? —Yes, providing you could always earmark the amount set apart for this special work, because we keep the technical account apart from the ordinary account. 53. Mr. Hogben.] Have you considered in what way the Railway Department could get a check on the pupils travelling to the manual-training centres? —They have to trust the teachers. I know the difficulty that exists. I may say I have talked the matter over with the Traffic Manager here, and he is as fully alive to the difficulties as we are. If a ticket such as you have suggested were issued I think it would meet the case perfectly. I think you should get the Railway Department to agree to something of the sort. 54. Mr. Poland.] Do you think it is necessary that the children attending high schools daily for three months at a stretch should be compelled to carry their tickets every day so that the guard may inspect them? —I do not think it is necessary. David Ernest Hansen further examined. 1. The Chairman.} I would like to know if you have any knowledge of the people's high schools of Denmark? —Yes. I spent some time in Denmark, and I gained my knowledge of the schools when paying a visit to one of my cousins, who is the principal of one of this form of schools.
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It seems that in this case, at any rate, he owned the farm. He was a qualified teacher, and he had considerable accommodation, as well as up-to-date cowsheds, pigsties, and necessary outbuildings. As far as I could judge he w 7 as licensed by the State to hold one of these country schools and to employ the necessary teachers. He had a staff of three or four teachers, and at his busy season he had sixty students. He had in the various buildings quite a considerable number of stock".'' The institution was run partly as a farm and partly as a school. In the summer when the students were away at work on the farms my cousin conducted the ordinary business of a farmer, and I understood from what he told me that this was done considerably in Denmark. His place was a farm during the summer and a school during the winter, and the number of stock kept in his case were sufficient to give splendid practical training in the care of stock, and he had all the ordinary adjuncts of a farm as well in connection with feeding. The feeding of stock is a matter that is treated in Denmark very scientifically, and the study of the feeding of stock is in itself quite a complete question. What I have described is called by the Danes the Landburgskole. If is distinctly an agricultural school for the people. 2. We have been told in the course of this inquiry that there is a considerable leakage in the primary-school course —that between 40 and 50 per cent, of the pupils are lost before they pass through Standard VI, and that between 18 per cent, and 20 per cent, are lost before they pass through Standard IV. How are they to be caught and educated except by means of continuation schools: can you suggest any other way?— They are compelled to remain at school until they are fourteen years of age or have passed the Sixth Standard. 3. But I am telling you that they do not remain? —I am afraid T am quite inacapable of suggesting any remedy. That matter has never been before me. Marion Dent Steele examined on oath. (No. 77.) 1. The Chairman.} What is your position? —I am a teacher, and am in charge of a school at East Chatton just now. lam a B.A. of the New Zealand University, and have been teaching for a great many years in Otago and Southland. 2. You were until quite recently in charge of the school at Kelso, under the jurisdiction of the Otago Education Board? —Yes. 3. Will you kindly tell me what was the average attendance of pupils and the school-roll attendance at the date when you were appointed to that school? —The school roll was forty. I do not remember the average attendance. 4. I understand that in the month of November of last year you received intimation from the Otago Education Board that in consequence of your school having risen to Grade 4 you would have to retire from that position, and they- offered you a position elsewhere? —Yes. 5. And in December you got notice of the intention of the Board to transfer you from Kelso to Otakau ? —Yes. 6. Did you go to the Otakau School?— No. 7. Why not? —One reason was that I meant to stay on and see if I could force them to keep me in the Grade 4 school. 8. Had you no other reason than that you desired to test the legality of the position? Was not the Otakau School one that you knew was on the down grade with a falling attendance?— When I got notice that the Board intended to put in a headmaster at Kelso after Christmas I wrote stating the facts about Kelso, and asked the Board if they could reconsider their decision in view of these facts. After the meeting of the Board a telegram came offering me the Otakau School, and giving me the attendance as thirty for 1909 and thirty for 1910, and an average of twenty-three for three-quarters of that year, which proved that it was going down. 9. What is the character of the locality at the Heads known as Otakau: is it a position to which a woman of your attainments had a right to be promoted after so many years of faithful service? —My idea of the school —I could not tell you exactly how T gathered it —was that it was not a school I would be anxious to be in. 10. If T were to tell you it is a district where a member of the School Committee found it necessary- to exert some amount of bodily influence would you think thatthe sort of locality for a woman of your attainments to be sent to?—I knew odd and ends about it, and it was a district I had not the slightest desire to be in: 11. So far as affording facilities for communicating with friends or travelling to town are concerned, was Otakou equal to the situation you had left? —Oh, no. 12. And as to the monetary aspect of the position, if you could have stayed at Kelso as from January what would your salary have been?—l must have got a Grade 4 salary, and that goes from £180 to £210. 13. That has an appreciable effect on the computation of your retiring-allowance?— Certainly. 14. If you had gone to Otakau what is the most you could have got?—£180. 15. Do you consider, in view of the treatment you were subjected to, that you suffered any disability?—J. consider I had proved myself competent to do the work in Kelso School, and if I went to Otakau it simply meant that the Board wore getting rid of me at Kelso. 16. Is it a fact that you were succeeded by an uncertificated teacher? —The teacher who replaced me did not have a full certificate at the time he was appointed. He has now. 17. Am I justified in saying that on every occasion on which you have had charge of a school you have been able to receive from the several Inspectors who have examined the school a certificate of competency? Did you ever get an unfavourable report? —Yes, I got one from Mr. Goyen once. It was nothing, of course, but T think that was the only time I got a report I was a bit annoyed at. 18. Are you aware of any other case similar to your own in the Otago District where women teachers have been treated in exactly the sa-me manner, or is yours a solitary ea«e?-i-4kn6w there w*s ow tile sfl-miß
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19. Is it not a fact that there were two others? —I do not remember. 20. Mr. Davidson.] What is your qualification in the Education Department? —81. 21. The figure 1 indicates that you got the highest possible teaching-marks from the Inspectors I —Yes. I was a servant of the Board, and if the Board objected to a woman holding a Grade 4 school I had to take what I got. The Board made no other objection to me at all. 22. The Chairman.} It was asserted before the Commission that the change was due to the fact that there had been an increased attendance at the school : was that in any way traceable to your efforts as teacher? —No, the increase was only such as might have happened in any district. It was forty when I went there and fifty when I left, That is an ordinary occurrence. There were no fresh arrivals in the district. 23. Had you nothing to do with raising the attendance by enforcing the truancy laws? — There had been a relieving teacher there for a time; I do not think a relieving teacher is as exacting as a teacher who is going to stay. I found it was necessary to do something to enforce the attendance. The Inspector had explained to me that the attendance was disgraceful in a good many instances and that it would have to be improved. ■- 24. Would it be fair to say that the interest you took as a teacher in putting the law into motion and getting backward parents to do their duty brought up the attendance in no small degree?—l think it would be fair to say so. 25. Mr. Davidson.] Had the School Committee asked that a man should be appointed to your position?—l do not know what they asked the Board, but I know the School Committee individually, and, as a Committee, denied to me that they had asked for anything except assistance for me.
........ Dunedin, Monday, 24th June, 1912. Alfred Robertson Fitchett examined on oath. (No. 78.) 1. The Chairman,.] You are Dean of the Diocese of Dunedin, and been so for a great many years?— Yes. I appear on behalf of the Bible in State Schools League, recently formed at the instance of the governing bodies of the Anglican, Presbyterian, Methodist, and Primitive Methodist denominations, representing by the census returns more than 70 per cent, of the population.- The object of this league is to obtain a referendum on the question of introducing the New South Wales system of education —that is, religious instruction in State schools which now is established in four States of the Commonw-ealth —viz., New South Wales, Western Australia, Tasmania, and within the last two years in Queensland. The system is described in a document by the Under-Secretary of Education of New South Wales, Mr. Boards. It is also described by the Inspector-General of Schools in Western Australia, and by the Senior Inspector of Schools in New South Wales. There are also a large number of witnesses representing the school-teachers and Inspectors of those four States describing the working of the system in its relation to school discipline, and also to the feelings of the religious bodies. The evidence also goes to show- that the system has worked without friction. Mr. Davis, who will probably give evidence presently, has had to do with the working of the system, and he will describe how it works in New South Wales. The system is taken advantage of by all the religious denominations including the Roman Catholics, the Jew 7 ish community, and the Salvation Army. They all give religious teaching by. their own agents during school-hours. That is an essential feature of it. The school-teachers can teach from the Bible or text-books founded on the Bible in matters literary, historical, and geographical. The3 7 can also impart what is called moral teaching. They do not teach am 7 special religious dogmas, but the ministers of religion are permitted to go into the schools during the school-hours and teach their own children apart, Although in the centres the Roman Cathol'cs have their own schools as they have here, yet in the backblocks they take advantage of this system, and last year there were thirty thousand Roman Catholic children receiving religious teaching from their own priests in the State schools of New South Wales. Samuel Tarrant Nevill examined on oath. (No. 79.) 1. The Chairman.} You are Primate of New Zealand?— Yes. 2. We understand you have a statement to make to the Commission? —Yes. I think probably Dean Fitchett will have given you the salient points at any rate of the system, which we are anxious the Government should thoroughly understand, because we think there has been a good deal of misconception on this matter. For my own part, I will address myself, if you will allow me, to an objection which I have seen very frequently raised in the public prints—namely, that it is wrong for the State to pay money for any religious teaching. It is assumed rather than proved that this system which we are advocating as the best system for adoption in this country really involves the payment by the State for religious teaching. In my judgment it does nothing of the kind. The Dean has told you that the State teachers are permitted to read the Bible, and to give certain expositions of the meaning of words and other matters in relation to that reading. The New South Wales Act provides that that Bible-reading shall be in the curriculum of the-.school, .and regarded as.a. secular subject in the hands of the teachers. It is. not read for devotional or spiritual purposes., but for what may be called secular reasons : that is. to say, as it is the most ancient history- we possess—the Old Testament history—it lets us into a great deal of historical knowledge in connection with the history of our race which w 7 e could not get from, any other source, and from this point of view it is regarded by the State as a secular subject and is in the hands of the teachers, as-such. You will therefore readily perceive that there is no payment .. is~>X religious teaching so ,fav.,as the State-school teaphers. are concerned. v Then, with regard
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to the entry of religious teachers in the schools, their services are entirely voluntary. The State does not make them any acknowledgment of any kind whatever for their services. I venture ••to say —and I wish to impress it upon the Commission —that the State received a very great advantage from this voluntary teaching on the part of the ministers of religion. Such ministers are acknowledged, I suppose, to be amongst the most educated and refined elements of our society, and I hold that intercourse week by week with such persons impressing their characteristics upon the children must have a refining influence upon them. Intercourse with such persons cannot do otherwise than have an advantageous effect upon the character and the deportment of the children who are brought under its influence. It appears to me, therefore, that the State is under a great obligation to those who give their time, their intelligence, and education to the children of the schools. Besides which, I venture to say, the religious information they impart is of the utmost value to the State. Apart from the question of dogma, the spiritual influence they bring to bear must have a very great educational effect. It must have the effect of reducing the crime of the country, and therefore there would be less necessity for Police Force and for those other things which the State has unfortunately to spend money upon, such as charitable aid, lunatic asylums, and even hospitals. This will lead to a reduction of monetary expenditure by the State; and I wish to impress that point because it has been said the State has no right to spend money upon religious education. I say the State does not spend money upon religious education. The instruction by the teachers is entirely secular, and the education by the ministers is voluntary. I do not know that I need develop the benefits of the system more largely, but I do wonder at any State hesitating to adopt a system which in other countries works so well and produces such excellent results. All we ask for is that the question may be referred to the people by way of referendum. I know there is an impression abroad that the majority of the people are in favour of secular education alone, but I feel convinced that if the matter were referred to the people in New Zealand the result would be fhe same as in Queensland. There would be a large majority in favour of religious instruction being imparted to the children. There is a noisy minority —people who write letters to the papers, and so on —and that probably leads to the impression that the public generally are against us. The public generally may be somewhat quiescent because they are somewhat hopeless of getting any change in this direction, but from my intercourse with the people, which is very- considerable, and the other clergy also, are strongly 7 impressed with the idea that the majority of the people wish their children to receive some kind of religious education, and I am quite sure if the country is appealed to —which is all we ask — there will be a majority in favour of such instruction, and I think the Government would then see its way to alter the Act in that direction.
Christchurch, Tuesday, 25th June, 1912. ' Matthew Dalziel examined on oath. (No. 80. 1. The Chairman.] What is your position?—l am Chairman of the North Canterbury Education Board, and have held that position about a year and ten months. I have been a member of the Board for fourteen years and a half. 2. Have you been a member of School Committees as well?— Yes. I have the honour, on behalf of the North Canterbury- Education Board, to present the following statement for consideration by the Royal Commission appointed to inquire into and report upon the system of education in New Zealand and matters relating thereto. (1.) Attached to this statement is a table showing the cost of education—primary, manual, and technical —as administered by the Board, for the years ending 31st December, 1891, 1901, 1906, and 1911. It will be seen that the total expenditure in this district for the year 1911 exceeded the total cost for the year 1901 by the sum of £54,462. The principal increases under the several headings are as follows, shillings and pence being omitted: Teachers' salaries, £24,265; house allowances, £672; maintenance of and rebuilding school buildings, £4,053; office salaries, £518; Inspectors' salaries and allowances, £550; training, £5,435; manual and technical instruction, £16,494; conveyance and boarding allowance, £'928; free books, £602. The Board is emphatically of the opinion that expenditure on Inspectors' salaries and allowances (£2,227 for 1911), and the expenditure on the works department (£550), should not be charged to Board administration. To do so makes the percentage of the Board's expenditure appear much higher than it really is. (2.) With regard to the administration of the Central Department, which we assume includes the matters of the relations between the Department and the Board, and the regulations issued under the Education Act, we desire to mention at the outset that the Board has always received courteous treatment at the hands of the Department, and that while its requests have not always proved of much avail, yet that, as a rule, the Department has been prompt in its replies. Any exceptions to this have no doubt been due to the fact that the matters brought forward have required careful and perhaps prolonged consideration. While, however, this is so, we respectfully submit that some of the regulations issued w 7 ith the Department's approval have caused and are still causing a good deal of unnecessary inconvenience. As instances in point we desire to quote the following : (a.) The abolition of passes at the several stages below Standard VI has resulted in many candidates for employment in the public service applying at the Board's office for certificates, which, however; cannot be given without inquiry and correspondence taking place, and in some cases where school records have been destroyed the information is not procurable. It is safe to assume that in Inter years, as the full effect of the change is felt, the number of
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applications for certificates will increase, causing a large amount of unnecessary office-work. We suggest that when a pupil passes into a higher standard with the approval of an Inspector, such promotion should be recorded, and should constitute sufficient proof of the applicant's eligibility for the public service, (b.) Under Regulation 20 (Inspection and Examination of Schools) it is provided that the parent of any candidate for a certificate of proficiency, or the candidate himself, must give notice in writing of the desire to obtain certificate. The Board respectfully submits that this formality is quite unnecessary, inasmuch as during the year the preparation of the pupils in Standard VI has been with the special view of securing a pass in that standard, (c.) The Department's regulations dealing with incidental expenses of Committees contain several anomalies, and have given the Board a good deal of trouble, (d.) The Board desires to direct the Commission's attention to Regulation 26 (c) of the Manual and Technical Regulations, and to express the opinion that sewing-mistresses should receive a fixed payment in proportion to the number of pupils instructed. The present method involves a good deal of unnecessary work, is complicated in its detail, and difficult for the School Committees and sewing-mistresses to understand, (c.) It is felt that the number of annual returns required by the Department should be reduced. As a case in point, the amount of work involved by the preparation of Return No. 2 is shown by the exhibit I produce for the information of the Commission. (/.) The regulations as regards the purchase of miscellaneous reader, and paper for use instead of slates, have been found unworkable in this district. The Board is empowered to require pupils in all or in any of the schools in the district to purchase the miscellaneous reader if in lieu of providing such reader free the Board expends a portion of the grant in the purchase of the paper used in school for school purposes instead of slates, provided further that at least an equal sum be spent for the same purpose out of the school funds of any school where such paper is supplied. This latter proviso has made the option given by the Department unworkable. It is difficult to understand why, after the Board has provided paper instead of the miscellaneous reader, School Committees should be required to spend an equal sum. The Board further submits that it is not reasonable to expect Committees to provide, out of their school funds, any portion of the cost of paper. In many cases Committees have assured the Board that the grants are insufficient for ordinary purposes, and this being the case how can they be expected to pay for paper? (g.) The Board is of opinion that the present system of capitation for hand-work classes should be abandoned. This alteration in itself would give a large measure of relief to head teachers and the Board's office staff. No sufficient reason has been adduced why instruction in manual occupations should not follow more closely the lines on which ordinary primary subjects are conducted. The observance of minute detail in the matter of filling up returns, whether of particulars of classes or of work done, is no guarantee of efficiency, which is much more likely to be safeguarded by the influence of direct reports from the Board's Inspectors on the quality of the instruction given. (h.) With regard to the issue of new regulations generally, the Board has felt obliged on several occasions to protest against the action of the Department in bringing new regulations into operation without due notice. (3.) As regards the Board's power to increase school staffs, it is considered that the regulations should not be so arbitrary, and that there should be some elasticity. Where an average of thirty-six has been exceeded, for instance, it should not be necessary to wait until an average of fifty has been maintained for one quarter before making the appointment. On the other hand, we feel that a substantial saving could often be effected in connection with this class of school if the Board had the power to remove the second teacher immediately after a fall in the attendance. Under the regulations it is sometimes difficult to determine whether a reduction in the staff is imminent or not, although the onus of giving a teacher'notice always falls on the Board. We have little to remark as regards 4, 5, and 6of the order of reference, except that the Board is of opinion that the management of technical colleges should be under separate bodies, representative of the several, trades and manufactures, with experts on the Board of Management, as otherwise the interest of the public is not aroused and the necessary financial support is not forthcoming. (7.) Under the heading of Finance of Education Boards we wish to mention the matter of the incidental expenses of School Committees. The Board has recently been informed that representations are to be made to the Minister to the effect that the allowances paid in this district are inadequate. We desire to point out that in 1910, when a parliamentary return was prepared, it was shown that in North Canterbury the allowances to School Committees were the highest in the Dominion, being o'3£o per unit of average attendance. Last year, under the regulations issued by the Department, common to all education districts, the amount paid by the Board was 7s. Id. (0*353) for all Committees taken together, although under the regulations the Board need not have paid more than ss. 6d. We desire to point out that if any hardship exists it is rather in connection with those schools whose attendance has fallen considerably, although approximately the same caretaking and fuel are required. The Board wishes it to be clearly understood that it would have preferred its own well-tried regulations and a continuance of the payment of the extra 9d. to Committees. The Board is convinced that a mistake has been made in taking small repairs from Committees and placing them in the hands of the Boards. It appears to us absurd that School Committees should be unable to have a door-handle repaired or a new picket put in a fence without the matter being first reported and the sanction of the Board obtained. We may here observe that the new regulations regarding incidental expenses were framed without the Department having any consultation with Education Boards, and consequently several curious anomalies have crept in. For instance, while fixing ss. 6d. as the minimum payment per head, the regulations provide that the Board may or may not include the salary of the caretaker. In view of the fact that the cost of caretaking absorbs approximately 50 per cent, of the Committees' allowances, it will occur to the Commission that the item is one with regard to which no option could possibly be exercised. (8.) The Chief Instructor in Agriculture will tender evidence in respect of this clause, indicating the direction in which the
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Board proposes to develop this branch of school-work. (9.) The Inspectors will give evidence with regard to school instruction. The Board ventures the opinion that after a thorough grounding in essential subjects, vocational subjects should become a prominent feature in the primary course; that arithmetic should be simplified, and that the subjects history and civics should receive more attention. The Board also feels that every boy and every girl in Standards VI and V within reach of a training-centre should receive instruction in some form of handicraft or domestic science, and that teachers in small country schools should not classify their pupils, a duty which should rest with the Inspectors, after testing the pupils' progress by examination. (10.) We concur in the opinion expressed at other centres that scholarships for town children might be abolished, except allowance for books, and, the money used for paying the Board Scholarship holders who are obliged to live away from home. With regard to the recent amendment of the Act under which scholarships are open to all children of the prescribed age, it appears to the Board to be wrong in principle that children attending private schools should be eligible to compete, unless the conditions as to their tuition are equal. The Board also desires to express the opinion that art and technical scholarships, and also agricultural scholarships, tenable at Lincoln College, should be established. (11.) The Board is of opinion that in the interests of education generally the following modifications or improvements are desirable : (a.) That the 3J per cent, per annum on cost of construction should be granted for the maintenance of school buildings, in accordance with the Parliamentary Committee's recommendation; and that the Boards should be advised as to the actual amounts paid for the rebuilding of schools, (b.) That the grant for rebuilding omitted in the year 1909 should be paid over, (c.) That where large areas of land are subdivided it should be incumbent on the owners to reserve school-sites at the original cost, (d.) That the allowance for sick-pay should be sufficient to enable Boards to pay full salary for the first month and half-salary for the subsequent two months (second leave within three years to be on half-pay), (c.) That special grants should be made to meet the needs of the large schools in the matter of installation of sewerage. (/.) That some of the grant now provided for free school-books would be better spent on copybooks, drawingbooks, exercise-books, paper, &c. In the opinion of the Board there has been no generally expressed wish that parents should be relieved of the cost of books used by their children. On the contrary, the representations made by School Committees and headmasters have strengthened the Board's conviction that parents would prefer to buy the books. We are of the opinion that the Government would have been well advised had this expenditure not been undertaken. We are credibly informed that for this year alone the cost to the Dominion will approximate £8,000. (g.) That probationers should receive a larger allowance, so as to correspond with the payments made to pupil-teachers as of the third and fourth years (in reality their first and second years of service). It is felt that the introduction of the existing probationer system has been a blow to the service. Many young people either refrain or are debarred from entering the service, while some of those who take up the work cannot enter for training. The payment to probationers should be increased, as otherwise the teaching service will suffer considerably. (A.) That while feeling that frequent periodical examinations by head teachers are unnecessary, the Board is of opinion that an annual examination by an Inspector would be in the best interests of the children, (i.) That the principle of granting subsidies in the case of district high schools for the maintenance and improvement of such schools should be extended to all primary schools. With regard to the vexed question of the grading and appointment of teachers, the Board feels that the introduction of a uniform scheme for the whole of the Dominion would be exceedingly difficult of accomplishment and unlikely to work satisfactorily. The Board believes that it would be impossible for any one person, or body of persons, to accurately assess and compare the respective merits of the large number of teachers employed in the Dominion Secondly, the system would result in one name only being sent on to the School Committee, who would therefore have no voice in the selection, and whose interest in the school would naturally be greatlylessened. Thirdly, such a system would sooner or later become largely automatic in its operation, resulting in teachers being promoted owing to length of service or other causes rather than to merit. It seems to us that only in very few cases are the qualifications of a candidate so superior to those of the other applicants as to justify the Board in sending his name only to the Committee, and that in most instances the attainments of some of those applying are so nearly equal as to warrant the inclusion of -at least three names, thus giving the Committee a free choice, and, consequently, more real interest in their schools. Dealing , with the matter of the staffing of schools, we are of opinion that the first addition to a school staff should be a pupil-teacher, seeing that this method might be expected to introduce into the service a number of promising country boys and girls to whom the conditions of country life are congenial, and who would therefore be more willing to undertake charge of country schools after passing through the training college than are the majority of the pupil-teachers appointed under the present system. A teacher in sole charge of a school of from thirty-five to fifty would be greatly relieved by the appointment of a pupil-teacher to take, under the head teacher's close direction and supervision, the preparatory classes, and such work, it seems to us, would be well within the powers of a boy or girl who had received two years' instruction in a secondary or district high school, and who wished to become a teacher. The expenditure in connection with schools having from thirtyfive to fifty pupils is very large indeed, and could be reduced considerably if the policy of the Department were modified in the direction indicated, while at the same time such a change would go a long way towards solving the difficulty of procuring teachers for the smaller country schools. 3. Mr. Kirk.] Is it your opinion that the total allowance paid to School Committees in this district is too small? —Upon the average I do not think that the average is too small, but in some instances, especially such as those I have mentioned, the Committees of the smaller schools do not receive sufficient money to maintain the schools. That is especially the position in the case
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of schools that have had at a previous period an attendance perhaps twice as large as the present attendance. Though the amount required for caretaking and fuel is not lessened in any degree, still the allowance received under the present system is reduced by half. 4. Would it be possible for you to let us have an instance of a typical case? —I think so. . . 5. Mr. Poland.] Do you think that if the power was taken from School Committees to make appointments of teachers that a great deal of interest manifested by School Committees in their own local school would disappear ? —Yes, 1 think they would lose some interest in the school. 6. Can you imagine for a moment that a School Committee being elected year -after year and having charge year after year of the local interests of the school would lose that interest because a teacher had been in their midst twenty years, and therefore no appointment had been in their control for twenty years? —I do not think for a moment they would lose all interest. 7. Do you think they ever think for a moment of the appointment of a teacher? —I do. I was a member of a School Committee, and I know we frequently thought of the likelihood of the appointment of a teacher. Under the present system of teachers changing places so frequently the possibility of appointments is always before the School Committee. 8. Do you think if the power of appointment w-ere taken from the Committees and placed in the hands not of the Board but of the Inspectors, that the Committees would then lose interest in their schools? —I do not for a moment mean to say that the Committee would lose all interest in the school, but it would tend in that direction. 9. Does your Board always send on the names of four teachers?— No. 10. Sometimes you only send on one name?— Occasionally. 11. Does the Committee express dissatisfaction when you do that?— Yes, the Committee express dissatisfaction if we send on less than four. 12. You do approve of sending on one name occasionally?— Yes, when the claims of that teacher are so outstanding that we think it would not be fair to that teacher to send on the names of the other applicants who had nothing like the same claims upon the position. 13. That is, in the opinion of the Board the claims are outstanding? —Yes, and of the Inspectors. Our system of appointment, of course, is always in consultation with the Inspectors. 14. Do you accept the recommendation of the Inspectors with regard to the qualifications of teachers for any particular school? —We consider them. 15. You do not always accept their recommendations?— Not always. 16. Does it often occur that the Committees will accept the last name of the four sent forward rather than the first name?—l think if they have any general rule it is rather to accept the first. It does occasionally happen that they do recommend the last name. 17. Is the first the name of the teacher who in the opinion of the Board, after consultation with the inspectorate, is really the best? —Not always so, but mainly- that is the position. Sometimes it happens that we have to consider the individual interests of the teachers. Teachers sometimes get into a position and stay there year after year, and, other things being equal, we give preference to the teachers who have not had promotion for a long time. 18. But the name put first in the list of four is the name of the teacher the Board considers most entitled to the position?— Yes. 19. Do you not think that teacher should get the position?—ln many instances the claims are so nearly equal that it is very hard to discriminate. In such cases we sometimes bracket two, three, or the whole four names together. 20. Mr. Wells.] I suppose the Board recognizes that the Inspectors are the men who are really best qualified to judge as to the merits of the teachers? —As far as their attainments and ability to teach are concerned the Inspectors are the most competent to judge, and as far as it lies in the Board's power it gives preference to what the Inspectors recommend; but it sometimes happens that there are other claims which have a slight influence, such as the claims of teachers who have been a long time in one position without promotion. Their claims are equal so far as attainments and work are concerned with that of the other applicants, but they have not had promotion, and the Board tries as well as it can to be fair to the teachers in every way, and so it will assist a deserving teacher to get promotion. 21. In other words, the Board's sympathies override the decision of the Inspectors as to merit? —Only in cases where the merit is so nearly equal. 22. Suppose that a vacancy has occurred and the Inspectors recommend, we will say, four names : does it ever happen that the Board strikes out one of those names and inserts another one that has not been mentioned by the Inspectors?— Yes. 23. Do you not think that is very discouraging to merit? —No, it did not strike me in that way. In this district, where there are a large number of applicants, the qualifications are so nearly equal that if the Inspectors included all who they thought had fair claims upon the position they would include a great many more than three or four names. 24. In the case of town appointments, is there ever any canvassing goes on, to your knowledge?— There is some, 25. Are Board members ever canvassed? —Yes. 26. And Committees are canvassed?— Yes. 27. Do you not think that is a bad system?—lt is a bad system in one way only. It depends how far canvassing is carried. I think it is desirable perhaps that Committees should see the applicants. There is a certain personality attached to every individual, and perhaps when there is a choice they might attach some little importance to personality. 28. Do you not- think it places a man away in the backblocks at a very great disadvantage in comparison with one in the town or who has friends in the town?—lt does, if he has not an opportunity of canvassing. 29. It is unfair to that extent, then?—Yes.
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30. With regard to the shortage of teachers, have the Board given any thought to the suggestion that has been made in some places of importing teachers from Home ? —Well, as a Board "we have not, but my own opinion is that perhaps we might try some other method before entering upon a system of importation of teachers. While we have been told from time to time that in England there are a very large number of qualified teachers out of work, we have also seen that a number of those teachers, having been given an opportunity to take work outside of London, for instance, did not care to go into the country districts. Well, if they did not care to go into the country districts in a thickly populated country like England, it is scarcely- likely they would care to take country appointments in a place like New Zealand, where they would be shut out from all intercourse with their fellows, you might almost say. I have thought sometimes that the appointment of a teacher to a country place is not at all like the appointment of anybody else to a position in any other line of work, because in any other line that I know of it does not result in the isolation of the person from society- to the same extent as the appointment of a teacher to a backblock school. Such teachers are taken away from social intercourse and from all educational associations, and very often their conditions of boarding are very unsuitable. 31. The Chairman.} Especially in the case of women? —Yes. Of course, even the young men find it very undesirable to be shut away in the backblocks. Personally, 1 think that no school should be without a certificated teacher, not even the small schools in the backblocks; and, although we are employing a large number of rmoertificated teachers throughout the Dominion —not so many in the North Canterbury District, because most of the teachers are within reasonable distance of the centres —I think the uncertificated teachers are employed in the wrong schools. Where it is absolutely necessary to employ uncertificated teachers, I think they ought to be placed in the schools that have already one certificated teacher or more. At a larger school, with three or four teachers, the work could be directed and supervised in a manner that is quite impossible in the backblocks schools, even if the system of employing an Inspector is followed. This, I believe, is in practice in some of the education districts —to send round an Inspector whose work is mainly to instruct and help those teachers. 32. Could you tell us the number of uncertificated teachers there are in the North Canterbury District at present? —Mr. Lane might remember; I do not. 33. Mr, Pirani.] There are fifty-seven uncertificated teachers in this district?—l might sayin that connection that, although there are that number of uncertificated teachers, a number of them perhaps have only one subject to pass in in order to complete. Very often that subject is music, and we do not consider that a teacher who has failed to qualify only in that particularsubject is altogether uncertificated. 34. Mr. Wells.] Could you offer an opinion as to the reason for the unwillingness of young people to enter the teaching profession ?—lt seems there is a great deal more work attached to qualifying for being a teacher, which necessitates a young person giving up social life, which many young people think it is impossible for them to do without. Preparation for being a teacher really means, if a young person goes into it in a whole-hearted manner, giving up most of his social life and devoting his whole time to studies. There is another reason, perhaps : after they have become pupil-teachers, for instance, when they enter the training college they seem to think that the remuneration is not sufficient. It is only £30 for those who board at home. There are a good many complaints about that. 35. How many district high schools have you?— Eight. 36. Do you think the salary at present paid to the assistants in district high schools sufficient? —I think it is fair. 37. Mr. Davidson.] Have you considered the question of enlarging the areas of the education districts?— No. I think that a district larger than this one, for instance, would become rather too unwieldy. It would discourage the members of the Board from taking the personal interest in a great deal of the work that they now take. They could not possibly give personal attention to it if the district was very much larger. 38. Do you know how many schools there are in, say, Westland, in the two highest grades— I mean carrying the highest salaries?—No, I do not. 39. Weil, there is not a single school of that class in Westland. In South Canterbury there is only one such school. Do you think the chances of promotion in these districts are sufficient? — They are not equal to what they would be in a district like North Canterbury. 40. Would there be any difficulty, in your opinion, in working the district of Westland along with North Canterbury?—l have not thought about that, 41. If Westland were joined to North Canterbury, and the district were divided into inspectorial districts and an Inspector were stationed at Hokitika, do you think the education in that district would suffer? —I could not say. It would mean that there would be no representative of that particular district on the Education Board. 42. Why not?—He would have difficulty in attending meetings of the Board. 43. Are there not equal difficulties in the district of Auckland at the present time? —There may be. 44. Will not the difficulties decrease as time goes on I—l1 —I should say so. 45. Under those conditions do you think education would suffer if Westland were joined to North Canterbury?—l think it would suffer in this w 7 ay a little, that there would be difficulties in the way of members taking a personal and active part in looking round their district and not leaving all the work in connection with the selection of sites and putting up buildings, and so on, to their architects. I think it desirable that members of Boards of Education should take sufficient personal interest in the work in the district to keep in touch with what is being done, and form opinions of their own as to when certain matters should be attended to and when they should not.
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46. We are told that it is exceedingly difficult to obtain qualified teachers, or to retain the services of such teachers, in the Westland District : do you not think, then, that education must suffer there on account of the few chances of promotion held out to teachers? —Yes, I dare say it will. . 47. If the chances were increased by the inclusion of that district in such a district as North Canterbury, woilld education there not consequently be more efficient? —Yes, it ought to. 48. Then, from that point of view, you would advocate the inclusion of such a district in a larger district ? —From that point of view it might be an advantage. 49. Take South Canterbury : as 1 said, in South Canterbury there is only one school in the two highest grades, consequently the chances of teachers reaching the highest positions in South Canterbury are very small indeed. Would it not be possible to include South Canterbury with North Canterbury? —Yes; but teachers have an opportunity of getting from one district to another. 50. Can you say within the past ten years how many teachers from other districts have been appointed to first-grade schools in your district?—No, I cannot say how many, but I know that some have. There have been two recently—one from Westland and one from Wellington. 51. The Chairman?] Then you do not shut the door to promotion on the part of teachers from other districts ?—Not by any means. When we find a teacher of outstanding merit applying from another district we welcome him. 52. Mr. Davidson.] But you do know that many of the other large districts practically erect a barrier ?—I do not know that that is so. 53. You know a good deal about the small country schools of Canterbury, I think? —Yes. I have lived in a country district about thirty miles from Christchurch. My knowledge of small country schools does not compare with the knowledge of gentlemen who live in such districts as Auckland. 54. I understand that you disapprove of the free-book system as at present in operation ? —Yes, entirely. 55. Mr. Hogben] With regard to the new regulations as to incidental expenses of schools: do you remember what their real origin was? Do you remember whether the Boards were asked to furnish any information by the Education Committee of the House of Representatives?— Yes; some alteration in the regulations took place on the recommendation of a parliamentary Committee. 56. You are not aware that these are the ones that the parliamentary Committee framed on the information supplied by the Boards? —No, I had overlooked that. 57. The Chairman.] Is it the practice in this district for the Committees to make charges for what is known as school stationery and requisites? —Yes, it is a practice, but not a general practice. 58. Is it a large practice ?—Yes. 59. Do you not think, having regard to the expression of opinion you have given, that it would be better for some of the money that you propose to save out of the free school-book expenditure to be added to the allowance of School Committees, and to abolish all cases of charging for school stationery and requisites?—l should like to see that done. 60. Can you see any reason why the general control of education in the district —that is, primary, secondary, and technical —should not be handed over to your Board—on the assumption, mind you, that you devolutionize your powers by what is called "co-opting," and give representation on the governing bodies to tire parents of the children in the secondary schools and likewise to the bodies who contribute —the Chamber of Commerce and the Industrial Association and the Trades and Labour Council —and to men who take an active and intelligent interest in the work of technical education, to assist the work with their advice and experience? Do you see any objection to your Board undertaking the general control?—No, if you can give representation to those different bodies; but if there is no representation given to those several bodies that you mention, we are very strongly of opinion that their interest in the matter would ceasej and that they would cease to contribute. 61. I would make that a condition precedent?—As long as the machinery was such that the interest of those different bodies was retained to such an extent that they would still contribute to the funds, I do not see any reason -why one central body should not take over the control of primary, secondary, and technical education. My feeling in the matter of education is that we must try and retain and still further promote public interest in all educational matters. 62. Is the provision for playgrounds sufficient, in your judgment, in the large centres and the suburban areas? —No, not nearly so. 63. How do -you suggest that that defect —which is grave in some of the districts we have visited —can be remedied unless there is co-operation for the acquirement of the necessary ground? For instance, if you can induce your City Council under the powers they now enjoy to assist by a grant, which, of course, would be taken from the borough fund and not necessarily be raised by striking a rate, and if the Board supplement that by giving a third and the Department give another third to enable additional ground to be acquired, do you not think it would be advisable? Having regard to the constantly increasing price of land in the large cities, the longer we leave it the less chance there is? —That is so. I had not thought of getting assistance from the different local bodies in providing grounds. I should not like to make a definite statement that that could be done, but it would be very desirable if it could be. 64. Mr. Pirani?] You said that there had been dissatisfaction from Committees when only one name had been sent on : vdiat was the result of that dissatisfaction ?—That the teacher was accepted by the Committee. 65. Although there was dissatisfaction. Did anything further occur : did the Committee lose their interest in the school? —We do not know yet. It is only a recent case.
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66. Have you any other cases that you can call to mind?—l think there is only that one case, as far as I can remember. 67. Can you say roughly in how many instances in the course of the year only one name was sent on ?—ln my experience, I do not remember that there has been more than the one. 68. Do you think it a proper thing that when four names are sent on by the Board the Committee should have the final choice? —I think it stimulates the Committees' interest in the work if they have some choice. 69. But do you think it right that they should have the final choice —that the Board should be compelled to accept the teacher the Committee select? —No, I do not think so. 70. Do you know anything about a system of classification and promotion of teachers such as is in force in three other districts in the Dominion?—No, very little. 71. You have not gone into it? —No. 72. Are you aware that at a conference of Education Boards your representative nearly two years ago strongly supported a scheme of promotion and classification? —I do not remember that. 73. It was never brought before your Board"" after that conference?— The matter has been before the Board, but the Board has not supported it. 74. The Chairman.} The modus operandi is, I understand, that you have an Appointment Committee ? —Yes. 75. That Committee go through the applications, with the assistance of your Inspectors, and then they recommend to the Board the placing of a certain number of candidates in the list that goes down to the School Committee, or they may select one candidate only?— Yes. 76. Do you not think it would tend to allay any feeling of dissatisfaction on the part of the Committees if, when you resolved upon a one-name selection, you sent down the names of the other candidates with an intimation that if the Committee were dissatisfied with your choice you would be open to receive their objections—that is to say, consult them in terms of the Act? — Yes, it might be reviewed. 77. If, for example —as has occurred in my own district when I was Chairman —the Committee were able to satisfy the Board that even the advice of the Inspectors was not exactly to be acted upon, for a reason the Committee possessed which neither the Inspectors nor the Board had, which rendered a particular candidate who had been recommended unsuitable for the position—would you not be disposed in those circumstances to review your decision?— Yes. Thomas William Adams examined on oath. (No. 81.) 1. To the Chairman.] I am a member of the North Canterbury Education Board. I am a past Chairman, and have been a member for twenty years. I have been for forty years a member of a School Committee, and for about fifteen years a Governor of Canterbury College. My name is subscribed to the statement read by Mr. Dalziel, and I am in agreement with the opinions expressed therein. I do not wish to add to that beyond emphasizing one particular point— namely, with respect to staffing, the addition of a pupil-teacher in our small schools by way of first assistant. It seems to me that what we suggest would be a very simple way of introducing a large number of very desirable teachers. In many of our small country districts the boys and girls who are capable have very little opportunity of becoming teachers, and I think it would be an economical system if the old method that we had in North Canterbury here of introducing a pupil-teacher at thirty-one —I believe it was thirty-one—were followed now. If I remember rightly a teacher received £20 extra for the teaching of that pupil-teacher, which was a nice addition to his salary. At the time the alteration was made it was said that the pupil-teachers coming from such schools were inferior to the pupil-teachers from the larger schools; but when in consultation with Mr. Watkins, the late Principal of the Normal School, on one occasion, I asked him if it was so, and he said, decidedly- not; that some of our best pupil-teachers came from those small schools. That being so, lam quite sure that the introduction of a pupil-teacher at that stage would be a great help to the local school; the addition to the teacher's salary would be a great help to the teacher, and there would be less work for him, because the pupil-teacher could very well take over the lower classes in the school. I think this would be one of the best moves that could be made to increase the number of suitable men and women for teaching in the Dominion, and that is what we are wanting now very badly. 2. Are you not aware that the-employment of pupil-teachers has been condemned by every progressive, educational country in the world?—l know it has. They will turn round again some day. 3. To Mr. Kirk.] I should like to see attendance at continuation schools made complusory, but I do not think public opinion would support this. Parents usually want to get all they can out of their children. This, perhaps, is not fair to the children, but it is not every child that would benefit by attending a continuation school. I am not so sure that more general education would altogether be an advantage. There are a large number of our boys and girls who, if they get well grounded in the three Rs, are not much benefited by a wider education. I am afraid that the children who go out of our primary schools to-day are not well grounded in the essentials of education, because I think too many subjects have been introduced into the syllabus. I believe that children were very much better grounded ten years ago than they are at the present time. A great percentage of children leave school after passing the Fourth Standard, and even before that. I think it essential that something should be done to stop the waste that must go on. It is a great pity if they do not reach the Fourth Standard. I believe that if a boy or girl leads the strenuous life in his early days it is an advantage to him rather than a disadvantage. I know that the State's corrective control at the present time ceases just at the most dangerous time in the life of boys and girls—when their blood is changing. I do not think it is wise for the State to interfere too much in such cases —that is, where there is
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parental control. As a general rule I do not think it desirable that the State should interfere after the Fourth Standard. As to whether parental control to-day is what it was in the old days : old men are always pessimistic; it seems to me that human nature is much about the same in all ages. If in our secondary schools such subjects as shorthand and typewriting are taught, some other subjects, I take it, will be neglected. Children who take shorthand and type.writing do not take the same subjects as other boys and girls who do not. T think the three Rs should be pretty well grounded before the children get to the secondary schools. i. To Mr. Poland.] I think the system of classification by teachers has not been to the children's benefit. I believe it was far better when the Inspectors passed the children. The Inspectors should pass all the children into the different standards. For instance, in many of our small schools where we have uncertificated teachers, I do not believe these teachers are capable of judging what qualifications are necessary for each standard. In Canterbury we have about sixty uncertificated teachers. I quite agree that many of these uncertificated teachers are quite as good as teachers of small country schools; they are quite capable of teaching all the rudiments and essentials of education. I think that free classification is an ideal thing in a larger school —say, with more than three teachers; but Ido not think it is in the small schools where a teacher has to deal with his own children. No one knows in what state the children are when they leave the school, or only in a general way. The teachers resent, I understand, the Inspectors going too minutely into what is really their own work. I believe that the examination of the various standards by the Inspectors once a year has a beneficial influence upon schoolwork. Teachers used to be far more anxious about their work in those days than they are now. We have not often sent on the name of only one teacher to a School Committee; I could not say how many times. We should not hesitate to do it where we considered the claims of the particular teacher stood out above those of the other applicants. If I as a School Committeeman had not the power of selection of a school-teacher, I should certainly still take an interest in the school, but I should think I was entitled to some say in the introduction of the person into my village. I have no say in the selection of a policeman—l sometimes wish I had. I do not know that I and the people of the village should have a say in the selection of a policeman, but I should like to. Ido not think it would be wise; but, in my opinion, it would be wise for the people of the village to have a say in the selection of a Postmaster, because he would be a loca] man, known to the people, and a policeman would not. 5. To Mr. Wells.] I should say that the boys and girls leaving the town schools are bettei grounded in the three Rs than are the children in the smaller schools. I should say there is not much difference between now and ten or twelve years ago as far as these town children are concerned. I have not had an opportunity of personally testing the relative value of the instruction. I think the present syllabus is overloaded. As to amendment, I think the three Rs should be emphasized and some of the other subjects left out. I do not offer any suggestion .as to what should be left out. I approve of school-gardening; I believe it will be made a very valuable thing in the country districts. 6. Supposing teachers are graded by the Inspectors in order of merit and that in case of a vacancy occurring the name of the teacher who is top on the graded list is alone forwarded to the Committee; the Committee know that he is the best-qualified man applying, and they have the right of offering any valid objection to that man : do you not think that that would satisfy the Committees? —I do not think it would. Very often there is nothing in the Committee's objection. Say we have a dozen applications for a position, as we often do; well, there will be four or five of them that perhaps there is not a hair's breadth between, and the selection of one man would be unfair to the others —they ought to have their names sent forward. As to the Auckland scheme under which various qualifications are considered, I may say that I met two Auckland teachers a short time ago, and both were very much opposed to the Auckland system. Of course, no scheme will satisfy eveiy one. I do not think any such scheme as the Auckland one will be superior to our present scheme. We go very carefully into the merits of each of the candidates, and have the advice of our Inspectors. I can hardly imagine anything that would be, on the whole, fairer. I cannot think a Dominion scheme would be anything like equal to it in fairness. The idiosyncrasies of the individual would not be so well known as they are to the local Board and the Inspectors. We have four Inspectors. We have had a number of changes recently, so that aIJL teachers are not known to two or three of those Inspectors; some are only known to one. At present the teachers eligible for the better positions are better known, I think, to the Board members than to the Inspectors. Canvassing has come under my notice, but it is very rare that a teacher canvasses me. We have no regulation forbidding canvassing. I live in the country, but I am very much in Christchurch. I do not think so much objection should be made to canvassing. I do not think one would care to appoint a teacher to any position without some knowledge of that teacher's appearance, and so on. I cannot remember anj' instance where, in presenting himself to me, one teacher has attempted to undermine the character of another. A teacher living in Westland would be at a disadvantage with respect to canvassing, but in Canterbury the teachers have long enough notice to let any one visit the Committee. If four are selected they all get notice, and all have an opportunity of interviewing the Committee if they so desire. They have equal opportunity of doing so; one is not given an advantage. In Canterbury there is a great deal of sympathy—even in town schools —with the man in the country, and I am not sure whether he is not sometimes selected just out of sympathy; he has been isolated for a long time, and very often gets the appointment. 7. To Mr. Davidson.~\ Tencliers here almost entirely, I think, receive their salaries direct from the Board. When I speak of the three Rs I mean reading, writing, and arithmetic. Under the heading " English " there are reading, spelling, writing, recitation, and composition ; I take these to come under the three Rs. I would exclude none of these. Geography is an
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important thing, and its importance is increasing; but it is not so important as history. I think history is rather neglected. Ido not think singing an essential thing. It is very desirable, but I would not withhold a teacher's certificate on that account. I think physical education is important, but not so important in country districts, perhaps, as in the towns. Children generally get a fair amount of physical exercise in the country districts. As to handwork in our primary schools, I think that all work of that nature should depend very largely upon the district in which the school is situated, as is the case in the Old Country, where each countyplaces first the particular industry of that county. I think it desirable to teach cookery or homecraft to the girls in the Fifth and Sixth Standards, but as this can only be done in the larger schools 1 should rather leave it for the secondary schools. I should also prefer to leave woodwork to the secondary schools. I would not so much exclude subjects altogether from the primary schools as give more time to English and arithmetic. I know, of course, that the week's time is twenty-five hours, I could not say what time is devoted to English now. I speak in a general way when I say that the time for those subjects should be extended and the time for others limited. The matter of the amalgamation of some of the education districts has been brought prominently before us recently. I know something of the Auckland District, and I should say it is rather too large than otherwise. I have no means of comparing the efficiency of the administration of education in Auckland and North Canterbury. If in the South Island there were a district with 10,000 fewer children than in Auckland and 220 less schools, I would not say that district was too large. I am aware that North Canterbury, South Canterbury, and Westland, if combined, would have 10,000 fewer children and 220 fewer schools; but I hardly think such a district could be worked efficiently. It is a subject that I have not thought at all seriously about. It seems to me that at present the difficulties of communication are too great as between here and the West Coast, at any rate. For instance, I read in the paper that at the present moment there is no communication between Canterbury and the West Coast; the snow has stopped the coaches. Of course, as soon as the railway is made that difficulty will be overcome. It would, no doubt, greatly help Westland in the efficiency of education to be joined to Canterbury. We have lately appointed a teacher from the West Coast. I think the greatest drawback to the teaching profession is that the prizes are so few. I think the number of prizes would be largely increased if the highest grade of school included all schools having an average attendance of over 500; I think this would be a distinct advantage. An ambitious youth would be induced to go into the profession; he would not be so likely to go into the legal or other professions. I personally would strongly support such an arrangement. 8. To the Chairman.] I do not think, it desirable that there should be over 1,000 children at one school. Unfortunately, in Canterbury we have the large buildings; this seems to be the drawback in limiting schools to 600 or 700 children, which is generally held to be the desirable number. 9. Do you see any objection to the Education Board of North Canterbury having control generally of primary, secondary, and technical education within its boundaries, provided always that a measure of devolution of responsibilities and duties is provided so that the special institution can be looked after locally?— Take the technical side : how would it work? 10. The funds would be provided by the Education Board and the administration of the Technical School would be left to the local body, on which the Education Board would be represented? —Would that give any advantage over fhe present method? The Board would have no more control than at the present time. To my mind, there would be no advantage in it. We are supposed to be the controlling body at the present time, but it is just a fiction. 11. The funds are derived from the central body now, are they not?— They would be in any case. We get no funds from any other source. 12. At present the giving-out and withholding of the funds rests in Wellington : I propose to transfer this to the education district? —That would be another matter. If we had the funds we should know what to do; at present we have to go to Wellington for everything we want. As to a provisional D certificate being granted to those teachers who are under age or are short of the qualification by one subject, it seems to me that the license to teach that has been given by the Department to a large extent fills the bill. I have not considered the advisability or otherwise of instituting a Council of Education to advise the Minister in all questions of policy. If it were composed of capable men I think it ought to tend to uniformity of policy and to a clearer interpretation of many- vexed questions. Thomas Scholpield Foster examined on oath. (No. 82.) 1. To the Chairman.] I am Acting-Principal of the Training College at Christchurch, my name having been recommended to the Minister. I am Chief Inspector of Schools. I was for twenty-two years headmaster of the West Christchurch School. \ have not been in charge of any other school. I was assistant master at the Boys' High School when it was opened. I am a Master of Arts. I have a written statement, which I will read. In this statement I have confined myself to one or two aspects of work in connection with the Training College, and one or two other points that have come under my purview as Chief Inspector. The statement is as follows: As Acting-Principal of the Christchurch Training College I have been requested to give evidence with regard to certain conditions that affect the management of training colleges. I would desire, therefore, to invite the attention of the Commission to the following points : (1.) The difficulty experienced.by many training-college students in maintaining themselves on an allowance of £30 per annum. This difficulty- mainfests itself more especially in the second year of training, when a small increase on the first year's allowance might appropriately be as is done in the case of probationers. In this connection I beg to present a letter from the honorary secretary of the Christchurch Training Students' Association, in which the case of
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the students is clearly stated. I may add that largely owing to financial reasons ex-pupil-teachers and" probationers frequently apply for further employment at the end of their term of service instead of entering the training college. (2.) An important feature of the work of a training college is the provision made for the observation of model lessons given by expert teachers. It IS eminently desirable that the teachers who are to give such lessons shall be skilful and well equipped, and fit to supply the best models of the teaching art. For various reasons, but more especially owing to the special responsibilities involved, the lower-paid positions on the staff of a normal school attract but few applicants. More liberal remuneration is needed to obtain the services of thoroughly qualified teachers for these junior positions, and to retain them when appointed. (3.) lam of opinion that vacant positions in a training college should not be advertised in the ordinary manner. In view of the special qualifications needed for such appointments, I would suggest that the Board of Advice, or a sub-committee composed, say, of the Chairman of the Board, the Principal of the Training College, and the Chief Inspector, should offer such positions to candidates who in their opinion are specially- qualified, both as models and as critics, to take an important part in the training of young teachers. (4.) lam also of opinion that, in consideration of the difficulty experienced in providing sufficient scope for teachingpractice for the large number of students who are now accommodated at our training colleges, arrangements might be made for a limited number of students to visit schools other than the normal school, with the view of observing methods successfully employed in specially selected classes. As Chief Inspector under the North Canterbury Education Board I beg to add a fewcomments based on an intimate acquaintance with the schools of the district. The quality of the education given under existing regulations is occasionally subjected to adverse criticism. Certain minor defects have been revealed that will be corrected with further experience and by a little readjustment of the syllabus, but in my opinion the Regulations for the Inspection of Schools are working smoothly, and both teachers and pupils have a wider outlook and work with a much better spirit than they formerly showed. Instruction is imparted on more intelligent lines, and a marked advance is shown in matters pertaining to expression, observation, and thought, and consequently in training for the work of life. In past years this wider aim was often subordinated to the more restricted view of fitness for the yearly examinations. Complaints are occasionally heard of the inferior attainments of the boys from the State schools when first they are put to office-work or other forms of employment. This is in a great measure to be explained by the fact that during the recent prosperous years there has been a shortage of boys required for all kinds of work. The provision made for free secondary education and for continuation classes of various kinds has greatly reduced the number of pupils who seek employment as soon as they pass the Sixth Standard. Consequently employers are often compelled to put up with an inferior article, and to accept lads for office-work who have not passed through the ordinary primary-school curriculum, and whom their teachers would never think of recommending for positions when neatness and accuracy are required. The consolidation of several small country schools—connected by good roads—into one school of a fair size is strongly to be recommended for various reasons, which have already been admitted to your Commission by several witnesses. More liberal provision is needed for the establishment of special schools for the training of defective children, who, by reason of mental or physical defect, are incapable of receiving proper benefit from the instruction given in an ordinary school. The monthly issue of a Public Instruction Gazette, on the lines of those in use in New South Wales and Victoria, published under the authority of the Minister of Education, would supply the most useful and convenient medium by which circulars, instructions, and departmental information could be communicated to the teachers. Such _a Gazette could also include articles dealing with up-to-date methods of teaching, and in many ways could prove a valuable aid to teachers, more especially in the more remote schools. [Mr. T. S. Foster put in a statement from the Christchurch Training College Students' Association, pointing out that pupil-teachers living at home in any of the training-college centres, and receiving £55 per annum, on entering the training college only receive £30 per annum and college fees.] 2. To Mr. Davidson.] I have considered the question of a Dominion scale of promotion for teachers. I know something of the Auckland scheme. Something like it would, I think, do verywell. I am not prepared to say it could be improved upon. I think that some such scheme would be practicable, but Ido not say that it should be absolutely automatic. I certainly think it would be to the advantage of education in the Dominion if a more systematic scheme of promotion i, c teachers throughout the Dominion than the present method were brought into operation. It is a great cause of disaffection at present. As to whether the students in our training colleges have sufficient opportunities for practice in the control and teaching of classes, the difficulty arises from the fact that there is such a number of them. With a school of moderate size, say, about 400-odd, it is very difficult indeed to get a large amount of practice with, say, 100 students To make up for this, however, there is the observational feature. The students can derive a good deal of advantage if they have good models to observe. I think that if anysole- or two-teacher schools within reasonable distance of the college were under the charge of special teachers, the students might be allowed to visit those schools. I think the Board, on the advice of its Inspectors, is best qualified to place the teachers in the most suitable posts. I do not think the Committees are as well able to make the best selection as the Board on the advice of its Inspectors. I think the system of canvassing regrettable, but a lot that is called canvassing is not canvassing at all. 3. To Mr. Wells.] As to the grading of teachers, if instead of the present thirteen districts there were six or eight districts more nearly equal in size, and consequently have strongerinspectoral staffs, that would remove some of the difficulties that T contemplated. It would make the plan much more workable if the Chief Inspectors met in annual conference. As to
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tlie Training College, we have only three or four Class B students. We practically filled up with Class A students last year. Some of the Class B students are proving very effective teachers. ■"They do not get on quite so quickly as those who already know something of the business, but if they are two years at the Training College they soon, adapt themselves to the work when they go out. As' to the manual work in the primary schools—woodwork and cookery—this encroaches somewhat on-the time, but I think it is justified. This work is not confined to the hands alone, but is educative in many other ways, especially when co-ordinated with other subjects of the syllabus. There is a leakage of pupils from Standard V and VI in this district, but it is not so great as it used to be. I think evening continuation schools are distinctly desirable. The want is met to a certain extent by the evening classes at the technical schools here. We feel that it is desirable that the Standard VI limitation with respect to free tuition at these schools should not exist. 1 dare say there would be a strong feeling against compulsory attendance at these continuation schools, but 1 think it will have to come to that. 1 think the number of examinations of a school by the head teacher might be reduced, but I should be sorry to see them done away with entirely : it is eminently desirable that the headmaster should keep in close touch with the work of his classes. In some schools two examinations would be enough. As to service in the backblocks, this year there is a larger shortage of teachers than ever. We find more difficulty in this month of June than in previous Junes in getting teachers to apply for small places. But our backblock difficulties in Canterbury are not serious when compared with other places. There are very few of our schools that can be regarded as backblock schools. I scarcely think it would do to make, say, two years' service in a backblock district count for three years. Experience in a backblock school —I mean a very small school —would not be much of a test of the capacity of the teacher. Our Board demand service in the country before a teacher can get promotion. Ido not think child-labour is a serious matter in this district. i. To Mr. Kirk.] There are more subjects taught in the schools now than used to be the case, and this necessitates more moving about of the classes. The constant changing from one subject to another is likely to make children restless if carried to extremes, but against this it has to be noted that you do not get twice as much advantage from an hour lesson as you do from a half-hour lesson. I think the system of teaching arithmetic is satisfactory in the schools. In the old days there was a lot of top-hamper. The tendency now is to bring within the reach of the children what they will use in after-life. As to cramming, there used to be cramming in the schools, but there is very little scope for it now. The word is wrongly used. When an effort is to be made by a child it is stigmatized as cram, whereas cram means causing the children mental exhaustion. That used to be the case when the memory was overtaxed. 1 will not say there is no cramming now after the children leave the primary schools. When they go to the high schools they depend much more upon books and less on instruction from the teachers. As to cramming in connection with the Junior Board Scholarships, the questions are generally set with the special object of avoiding cram and requiring -thought. Any practice that is given in the training of thought or expression is not cram. the questions are edited by the Education Department, and I think they generally throw out any of the questions that tend to encourage cramming. If there is any cramming I take it there is really no necessity for it. Very often it is a mistake on the part of the teachers; they may be overworked anil put young children to tasks which they are unfit to attempt. It is the practice of the Board here to welcome applications from other districts. W 7 e have had several teachers come in lately. Generally speaking, the Inspectors in North Canterbury know the teachers well. In any grading scheme I think we could fairly assess their values. In the Auckland District 1 believe each Inspector has a special district. That is not our method; here we try to change schools every year. If a Dominion scheme were intioduced a certain teacher would be known perhaps to one Inspector, who would know nothing about the others. It would be very difficult to get a common denominator. 5. To Mr. Pirani.] On the whole, I think it would work equitably if instead of advertising for applicants for a. position the Inspectors selected the men best fitted, and submitted their names to the Board. If there were a system of grading according to the school in which the teacher was engaged I think, on the whole, it would be an educational gain if teachers wore selected to fill vacancies, rather than follow the present method of inviting applications. The question of uncertificated teachers here is not a serious one. Our Inspectors really do the work of an organizing teacher. We frequently spend a day at a school, in addition to our ordinary visits. Where we find a weak teacher we help him, perhaps by correspondence. I think it would be putting the clock back if, instead of one of the term examinations of the teachers, a detailed examination by an Inspector was substituted. Where there are sole-charge schools in the hands of inexperienced teachers they depend on the Inspector to help them, with a view to promotion. As to the statement in the Board's annual report, that doing away with the Inspectors' examinations under Standard VI has caused a considerable difficulty in supplying information to Departments of the public service, I dare say some difficulty has arisen ; but these questions are generally handed over by the Secretary to the Inspectors, and we are able to deal with them, and supply the information as to the educational status. If there were an annual report by the Inspectors on each class it would mean a complete old-fashioned examination and a detailed examination, in which every child was tested at the end of the year. You cannot test a child like that in the course of the year's work; you must wait until he has done a full year's work. 6. To Mr. ffogben.] As to more liberal salaries for junior teachers in the Normal School, the training at a college suffers from frequent changes in the staff. It is especially necessary that we should have good models for the teachers to watch. 1 have not placed any limit as to the number of junior teachers to whom I think more salary should be paid; it would depend on the liberality of the Department. I know that the teachers at the Normal School are paid better than those at ordinary schools; the only thing is that I should like to see the Department go a little further.
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7. To Mr. Davidson.} As to appointing a probationer or pupil-teacher in schools with an average attendance between thirty-one and forty, the trouble would be that in many of those schools you might have an uncertificated teacher in charge, and I do not think he would be fit to train a teacher. I do not think there are many such schools—Grade 3 schools —under the charge of an uncertificated teacher. At about that grade they would attract certificated teachers. If by appointing a probationer or pupil-teacher to small country schools between thirty-one and forty you could attract boys and girls who had passed the Junior Civil Service or Matriculation Examination it would be valuable experience for them. 8. To the Chairman.] My Board does not differentiate in the case of a woman who has successfully carried on a school up to thirty-five and the attendance rises beyond thirty-five, by ordering her from her position. We have cases where such women have been kept on, with an assistant. As to the business men complaining that the boy going from the primary school to business is not sufficiently grounded in the three Rs. and that his education does not compare favourably with that of the boy taught ten or fifteen years ago —a partial reason for this maybe that the present syllabus makes too many calls on the average child in respect to matters other than the fundamentals of education. 1 explain in my written statement that such employers draw upon a lower stratum now. There is such a demand for boys in every walk of life, and a good many stay on for the secondary education, so that employers have to take lads who have left school without having passed the Sixth Standard. J am not prepared to concede, if you get the finished product of our schools, that it is inferior to ten or fifteen years ago. lam afraid that employers now very often get material that no master would recommend as suitable. Every master in the place is pestered by employers just at the end of the year, and the supply soon runs out. I think it desirable that we should catch, by means of continuation schools, those who have not passed the Sixth Standard, but I am afraid a great number would not go voluntarily to the continuation schools. If you can get them to technical schools I think capitation ought to be given by the Government for children who fall short of Standard VI, because it is eminently desirable they should be made useful citizens and capable of earning their living. Under the two-year course it would be an advantage, in my opinion, if the students, for the purpose of observation, went to accredited schools for a while to watch accredited teachers. There is a tendency on the part of some of our students to make the university the goal of their work, rather than the public school, but the Director has power to direct, and he has to restrict any such tendency when it is exaggerated. We have to impress upon them that this institution is a training college primarily. The question of home lessons is not a serious one in this district. We find very little evidence of pressure arising from home lessons. If a secondary pupil is kept at lessons till ten o'clock at night, entirely- wrong educative lines are being followed. I think everything is to be gained by encouraging an interchange of ideas and visits abroad, and allowing an Inspector or teacher leave on full salary, say, once in seven years, to visit other countries, to study and report on educational matters. Henry Bignell examined on oath. (No. 83.) 1. To the Chairman.] 1 have been Chairman of the Grey Education Board for the past year, and a member of the Board for the district for some six or seven years. I have also been a Committeeman for about sixteen years, fn appearing before you as the representative of the Grey Education Board, 1 wish it to be clearly- understood that 1 do not profess to be an expert in matters educational. I have, howover, always taken a keen interest in the subject of education, and have followed with the closest attention the trend of the national system in the Dominion. As member of a School Committee and of an Education Board I have been able to keep in touch with the latest developments, and to realize to some extent the magnificent work done by our teachers, many of whom are working under conditions that would deter any except those who are heart and soul in the task of training the youth of this fair land of ours to be good citizens and noble men and women. As a business man and an employer of labour I have had good facilities of judging of the suitability of the instruction imparted in the schools to fit the scholars to become intelligent workmen. The suggestions that I intend making are, therefore, based on observation made from an employer's point of view, and not from that of the educational expert; but the two, if correct, should, I consider, lead to identical conclusions. I will now- take the various questions which have been placed before me, and briefly state my opinion thereon. (1.) At a first glance it would seem that a vast and rapidly- increasing sum is being spent on our education system, and that it is altogether out of proportion to the extent of our population. But in such an important question as this the mere amount of money expended should not be allowed to decide the issue. The point to be decided is, I contend, whether the people of New Zealand are getting full value for the money spent. This can be arrived at by considering the facilities offered to the pupils and the results obtained. We have in New Zealand a system of free primary and secular education by which a child may obtain a thorough grounding in the three Rs and other important subjects. Those who show average ability may obtain proficiency certificates and pass into a secondary school as free-placers. National and Board Scholarships offer further inducements to bright pupils to continue their studies. University scholarships have also been instituted, and it is now possible for a cleverboy or girl to pass from the primary school to the University without any expense to his or her parent. In this way the child of a poor man has an opportunity of reaching the highest rung in the ladder of learning. The Maori race is equally well favoured, and weak, feeble-minded, and defective children are provided for in specially equipped schools. Agricultural instruction, dairying, and training in the arts and crafts are also fully attended to. So much for the facilities. Now, let us look at the product. The percentage of New 7 -Zealand-born who are illiterate is the lowest in the world. For intelligence our children rank w-ith the best, and this
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is a fact that lias been favourably commented upon by visitors from other parts of the world. Our universities have turned out men that occupy a prominent place in the world of literature "lind science, and the instruction is on the most modern lines. The Grey District has an expenditure of .£12,000 a year, and the number of pupils receiving instruction is 2,000. Difficulties of travelling owing to the abnormal rainfall and the nature of the country have made the proportion or small or backblock schools unusually large. Good value is, however, being obtained for the money, as is shown by the prominent positions occupied by pupils from the Grey District in Matriculation, Civil Service, and National Scholarship Examinations. On the whole, therefore, Ido not think we are paying too much for our education system. (2.) So far as the Grey Board is concerned, nothing but praise can be given to the Central Department for the unfailing courtesy received from its officials. There have been occasions when requests from the Board have been refused by the Department; but in these cases the latter were, from their point of view, quite right. (■>.) 1 consider that the powers and rights possessed by Boards and Committees under the present Act are quite ample, and where tactfully exercised have proved of great benefit to the cause of education. (4.) 1 consider that manual and technical instruction should form an integral part of the education system, and should be paid for out of the Consolidated Fund and be entirely independent of local assistance. Such an important branch should not depend upon the caprice of any local body. Every child in the Dominion should be placed on the same footing with regard to it, and this would not be the case if it were dependent to any extent on local support. (5.) So far as the Grey District is concerned, I consider that it would be a retrograde step to merge it with any of the contiguous districts. The expenses of the Grey Board amount to about 8 per cent., and this could not be reduced by any scheme of amalgamation. 1 may point out that my Board allows Committees the full grant for incidental expenses. (6.) No instances of overlapping and duplication in the work of controlling bodies occur in the Grey District. (7.) In the matter of finance, Boards with a large percentage of backblock schools should, 1 consider, be put on a more liberal footing than other Boards. Those in the Westland Province should receive special consideration. In a climate with a rainfall of over 100 in. per annum the timber and iron used for building purposes quickly perish, and the life of a school-building is only about half that in other parts of the Dominion. Owing to the cost of bricks, building in that material is impossible with the present grants. The cost of upkeep is thus a heavy drain on the Board, and further assistance should be given. The present grants for manual and technical education are, I consider, on a sufficiently liberal scale. These branches should, however, form no part of the curriculum of the primary school. (8.) Agricultural instruction should also be relegated to the secondary department, and be taught only by fully qualified experts. (9.) I am of the opinion that the present primary-school syllabus is very much overburdened and requires a great deal of simplification. To deal efficiently with all that is contained in the primary code would require superhuman pupils and superhuman teachers. I consider that from the age of five years until seven years the children should receive nothing but purely kindergarten work, and the hours of their school day should be lessened. 1 hold that the primary course should consist of the following subjects : Arithmetic (including the fundamental rules, fractions, the decimal system, commercial arithmetic, simple mensuration), English (a course designed to enable the pupil to read, write, and speak the mother tongue correctly and fluently), writing, drawing (actual objects and scale drawing), civic instruction (including a course in Imperial history), commercial geography, physical drill (in my opinion no instruction should be given in military drill in the primary course; the Scout movement for boys and girls is admirably suited for primary schools), singing and sewing for girls. A pupil who had passed through such a course should be able to exercise intelligently his duties as a citizen. The secondary course should be a vocational one. The instruction in the fundamentals comprising the primary course should be continued and amplified. The special course should take three directions : (a) An arts and crafts course on the lines laid down for the London Guilds Examinations, and suitable for turning out skilled artisans. (In country districts an agricultural, dairying, or veterinary course might be substituted); (b) a commercial course, preparing lads for a. business career; (c) a course designed for those about to enter a profession. The secondary course for girls should have corresponding branches: (a) A domesticscience course, to prepare the pupils to be good housewives and mothers; (b) a commercial course; (c) a course for those intending a profession. Such a course as that outlined would prevent children taking a number of superfluous subjects. The course should in all cases be a three years' one, and be perfectly free to all. Any pupil entering for any less term should, however, be compelled to pay full fees, as, in his case, the work done would be insufficient to be an asset to the Dominion. (10.) The present system of awarding scholarships should be retained. The rivalry engendered by the competitive examinations forms a healthy stimulus to work, and fosters that esprit de corps that is such a valuable factor in school discipline. The results of the competitions form a useful method of comparison of the work done in the schools in the various districts. (H-) lam of the opinion that greater efficiency would be obtained by placing the Inspectors under the Central Department. Inspectors, in common with other mortals, have their weak points as well as their strong ones. To be always under the same Inspector tends to get the teachers into a groove. Too much attention is paid to the Inspector's " pet " subjects to the consequent neglect of the others. A frequent change would keep the schools up to the highest standard. Organizing Inspectors should also be appointed. These would also be under the Central Department, and it would be their duty to go into the smaller schools and give the teachers the benefit- of their wide experience. Selected from those that had experience in the smaller schools, and thoroughly understanding the difficulties that beset the teachers therein, they would by their sympathetic advice do much to render the lot of the backblock teacher a more enviable one than at present, and at the same time much improve the efficiency of these
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schools. A colonial scheme of promotion should be adopted. The teachers in the Dominion should be classified in a similar manner to those in other branches of the public service. In the matter of..~filling a vacancy the following method of procedure should be adopted : All vacancies throughout the Dominion should be advertised in the Journal of Education on a certain date in each month. The teacher would know by the grade of school and his own classification ■whether he was, eligible to apply or not. A selection committee, consisting of one member appointed by the teachers, one appointed by the Education Board, and one Inspector should be set up to consider the' various applications. They would select not more than four names and forward them on to the Education Board concerned, together with a full report on the merits of each applicant. The Board, after consulting with the School Committee interested, would then make the final appointment. Such a method, 1 contend, would be extremely simple in operation, and would do away with the evils of canvassing, favouritism, and parochialism that are rampant under the present system. As the Education Board and School Committee still had the final say in the appointment, the bugbear of giving their powers over to the Central Department, which has hitherto been a bar to a colonial scheme of promotion, would be obviated. All schools, private as well as public, should be duly inspected and forced to comply with the compulsory clauses of the Act. I do not hold with the suggestion that has been made by one of the Boards that the present shortage of teachers in the Dominion should be remedied byimporting teachers from Home. Give our own teachers a sufficient salary to live comfortably and a chance of promotion and they will remain in the profession, and not, as at present, use it a stepping-stone to some better paid and more attractive calling. In outlining my scheme of appointment, I omitted to state that I consider that positions where the salary is less than £120 per annum the appointment should be made as at present. As a business man I have been struck by the inability of the majority of those who have passed through the primary schools to write a good composition. The sentences are for the most part models of grammatical construction but the literary value of the composition is comparatively nil. Descriptive power and literary taste are lacking. In my opinion the defect is due to the methods of teaching in vogue. The children from their entry are obsessed with the craze for formal correctness. They are afraid to give full expression to their thoughts, lest, forsooth, the sequence of tenses may be wrong; the rule of proximity not observed, the time phrase wrongly placed, or that unpardonable fault, a split infinitive creep in. This, I hold, is entirely a wrong state of affairs. A mother, in teaching her child to walk, does not commence by giving it a number of rules as to how the muscles should be used and the foot placed on the ground. It is encouraged to attempt to walk. It may have many falls, but encouraged by the mother it gets up and tries again. It learns by experience and unconsciously modelling its efforts on those of its mother. So with the teaching of composition. The child should be first of all taught to write freely and naturally. The teachers' work should be to guide and help it along. As the child gets older and has attained considerable facility in expressing its thought, then the formal reasons for methods of expression should come. The present system inverts the natural order. Another weakness noticeable in lads entering an office is their inability to add quickly and correctly. Mental arithmetic does not occupy that position on the syllabus that it should. Short methods of work should be more encouraged. The solution of problems, to which so much time is at present devoted, is no doubt good mental gymnastics; but, like other forms of gymnastics, it can be overdone, and do more harm than good. It is also a surprising fact that few of our lads can speak at all fluently in public. This might be remedied by making debating a prominent feature of the secondary-school course. The medical inspection of school-children which is about to be instituted is not only desirable but absolutely essential. Of course, I am aware that many of the suggestions that 1 have made may be unworkable, but I give them as a layman's contribution to the solution of an important problem—the perfecting of our system of national education. 2. To Mr. Davidson.] I am of opinion that the best educational results cannot be obtained in the smaller districts, as highly qualified teachers will not enter such districts, or will endeavour to get out as soon as possible, from doing which they are practically debarred at present. I do not, however, see how you are going to obviate it. 1 do not think that if these smaller districts were included in a much larger district—for example, Grey District with North Canterbury—there would be many more desiwible positions, as appointments throughout the Dominion would not be open to the teachers any more than at present. I contend that if there were a colonial scheme of promotion the ill effects produced by having these small districts would disappear to some extent. I would like to say that the West Coast is peculiarly situated in this respect; that the population is floating to a certain extent, and you must give the people in the backblocks facilities to educate the children. I certainly advocate a colonial scheme of promotion. This would improve the state of education in my district, and give every teacher equal opportunity, from which they are debarred by some Boards. I would place the Inspectors under the control of the Education Department. Assuming such a state of things were brought about —the colonial scheme of promotion and the Inspectors placed under the control of the Education Department — 1 do not think it would then be necessary to have an Education Board administering the affairs of a small district with only thirty-five schools, if greater powers were given to the Committees in that district. My experience shows that even if the Inspectors were placed as you suggest, there would still be functions outside the Inspectors department in regard to carrying on the schools and to study the wants of the district. School Committees could no doubt be trusted to look after the affairs of their own schools, but you would simply take away one body and set up another, and the number of School Committees in that district would be apparently thirty-five. If the Grey District were included in a larger education district they would not communicate
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direct with the Department, but with their own Board for their different wants. Over on the West Coast it is not reasonable to expect that the Nelson Board should look after- the work of these backblocks schools as efficiently, as the present Boards are doing. I do not know if the schools in the Auckland District are as well looked after now —I know nothing about Auckland. I understand that if South Canterbury, North Canterbury, Grey, and Westland were included in one district it would then contain some 8,000 children fewer than the Auckland District, and Auckland contains 445 schools. The combination of these four districts would include only 360 schools, but I should think the area would be very much greater than the Auckland District. What I mean by "the area" is taking Auckland's furthermost point from Auckland City. Of course, a man may be able to get from Greymouth to Christchurch as easily- as a man can get from the furthermost part of Auckland to Auckland City, but I do not really know anything about the Auckland Province. 3. To Mr, Wells.} The cost of administration in the Grey District is, roughly, 8 percent. The difference between this return and that of Wellington (4 per cent.) or Auckland (39 per cent.) is easily- accounted for. Wellington and Auckland have much larger districts, and it is much cheaper to administer a large district than a small one —that is to say, under certain conditions, where you have a district that is, as it were, self-contained. But you must remember that on the West Coa.st it is difficult travelling, and we of necessity have a number of small schools in the backblocks. There are practically no roads there excepting the main road, and taking children into the nearest adjacent school is very often not practicable. There are not sufficient people to pay any one to do it. Possibly the Board in the Grey- District could administer a good deal more territory than it does at present. 4. Is there any reason why the Grey and Westland Districts should not be combined? — Some years ago —in the "eighties," I think it was—they were combined. It was found that they were unworkable, or, at any rate, that they were not giving good results, and they afterwards became separate districts again. It was before my time, but the statement that they were combined is correct. It is difficult to get to some of the points in the Westland District, such as Bruce Bay, which is a long way down the coast, and they have a number of schools at these places. A self-contained district should be more cheaply administered than a district such as we have there. Ido not think that the districts over there could be combined with advantage. As I said before, the schools there are scattered very much, and those schools have to be visited by the Inspector from time to time, and so on, and it makes the expense creep up; but Ido not know, if either of these Boards were abolished, that it would lessen the cost of administration very much. 5. You were speaking of the number of small schools a moment ago. I think the number of schools in your district in Grades 0 and I is fifteen. The number of schools in these two grades in the Auckland District is 149; so that Auckland has quite as large a proportion of small-grade schools?— They may be more accessible : I do not know. 6. With regard to the needs of the district being looked after, in a large district you would still have the Board system, would you not : I mean, the district would be represented by one or more members? —Yes, there is a Board system at present. 7. Supposing, then, the West Coast districts were combined and made part of a larger district, such as Mr. Davidson suggested, combined with North Canterbury the West Coast would be represented by one or more members, would it not?— Possibly so; I suppose it would be: but would that lessen the cost of administration, and would you get the same results? Might it not happen that the larger schools in Canterbury would get the lion's share? 8. To Mr. Davidson.] My Board allows the School Committees the full grant —ss. 6d. I think it is. I did not know the North Canterbury Board allowed 7s. Id. to its Committees. They must have more money than we have. 9. Would not you benefit, then? —Yes. 10. That is precisely what we want to proportion out? —We give them all we get. Knowing the West Coast as I do, I am of opinion that amalgamating with any other Board would be detrimental to the cause of education, although I am prepared to admit that it would probably mean a considerable increase in the allowance to School Committees in my district. 11. To Mr. Poland.} We have a District High School in Greymouth at which secondary work is carried on. We have no rrfral course in the school —the district is not suited to it. In Canterbury and other places it would be desirable, but on the West Coast there is no agriculture —the land is not suitable for it. There is a little dairying, but this has just commenced. The land is suitable for grazing. The only possibility of expansion in the agricultural direction is dairying and grazing. 12. To Mr. Pirani.} With regard to the appointment of teachers under a classification scheme for the whole of New 7 Zealand, instead of being purely locally appointed : the thought suggested itself to my mind when I suggested setting up a Committee to select four names. The reason why nineteen out of the Board's fifty-five teachers are uncertificated is because we cannot get certificated teacher to take the place of uncertificated ones. The trouble is that the teachers at present have a purely local standing. Other Boards will not take them, and the avenue is small in a small district, or in any district as a matter of fact; but under my scheme every teacher as soon as qualified would have an opportunity of applying for other positions in any part of the Dominion. I think all teachers should have equal chances with each other, provided their qualifications are the.same. I have not seen or studied any of the systems in vogue at present in other districts in New -Zealand for the promotion and inspection of teachers. I have not gone into the question fully. . There would be no difficulty in working Nelson, Grey, and Westunder one Education Board, other than local feeling. I do not, however, see where the administration, is going to be very much lessened, and the efficiency would be greatly lessened. The larger schools in Nelson would probably get the larger proportion of the votes, whereas Westland and the Grey, who are providing these backblock schools, would probably be overlooked.
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T. G. Malcolm examined on oath. (No. 84.) 1. To the Chairman.] I am Chief Agricultural Instructor under the jurisdiction of the North Canterbury Education Board, and have been so for three years. I was previously a teacher in the Board's service from about 1904, and I was with the Nelson Board for seventeen years before that. I had an appointment also at the Boys' High School before I came into the service of this Board. Having been asked by the North Canterbury Education Board to give evidence before the Commission with reference to its agricultural work, 1 beg to deal with it under the following heads: (1) Nature-study; (2) elementary agriculture in the primary school; (3) the rural course in the rural district high school; (4) help for those beyond school age; (5) training of teachers in agriculture, (1.) Nature-study : Nature-study is looked upon as a fad by those who think that primary-school education should consist of the three Rs, and very little else. But when it is considered that the object of nature-study is to open the pupil's mind by personal observation to a knowledge and love of the common things in the child's environment —in other words, to put the pupil in a sympathetic attitude towards things about him for the purpose of increasing the joy of living, that the children of yesterday, bred up on the three Rs, left school, as a rule, with the spirit of interest and inquiry in things around them, which is natural to the child mind, completely stifled; that nature-study furnishes the best subjects for composition and drawing, in both of which the self-expression of the child finds scope; that it provides, because of the interest and pleasure connected with it, one of the best means of training a child to think : when these and other equally forcible considerations are taken into account its inclusion in the primary-school course needs no further justification. Nay, instead of being viewed as an additional burden to the teacher, it should be welcomed as a pleasant relief and relaxation from more exacting subjects. (2.) Agriculture in the primary- school : Agriculture, viewed as a primary-school subject, is but the continuation, so far as spirit and treatment are concerned, of the nature-study of the lower classes, and should therefore be thought of as agricultural nature-study. It is nature-study from an agricultural standpoint in the broadest sense-—nature-study becoming more systematic —and should pave the way for the more exact science work of the high school. In the hands of a skilful teacher it is of the greatest educative value, and is calculated to have a most stimulating effect. Its tendency is countryward, and for this one reason alone it justly claims a place in the curriculum of the primary school. One has been surprised in travelling over North Canterbury at seeing quite a number of large schools in farming districts whose roll number is now about one-third of what it was thirty years ago. It has been suggested that the technical side of the subject should be excised from the primary-school course. With this suggestion I have no sympathy, for while the primary object is not to teach technical agriculture, this part of the subject cannot be dispensed with, though it should be kept subsidiary to the rest. Hence the need of having a school-garden, but as a field laboratory constituting an indispensable adjunct if agriculture is to be taught at all. The teaching of agriculture necessarily implies a school-garden, but on no account a cottage-garden, as some have expressed it. (3.) The rural course in the district high schools :An eminent American authority has said, "The accustomed methods of education are less applicable to farmers than to any other people, and yet the farmers are nearly half our population. The greatest of the unsolved problems of education is how to reach the farmer. We have failed to reach him effectively because we still persist in employing old-time and academic methods. New educational methods must be employed before we can really reach the farming communities." With a view to meeting this long-felt need in a proper way the rural course has been introduced into a few of our rural district high schools (in North Canterbury in two only as yet). Tliis provides a higher education for our country girls and boys that is eminently calculated to fit them to take their placein the arena of life. Their knowledge of English, arithmetic, and geography is reinforced, while a training in such valuable subjects as book-keeping, woodwork, cookery, and the various branches of elementary agricultural science is also given. It is proposed to make an effort to urge the advantages of this higher education upon those most concerned in some of our farming centres, where there ought to be, and would be, sufficient support for a district high school if the value of such education were realized. To this end I have been instructed by the Board to make a personal canvas of certain districts with a view to getting into touch with the farmers, in order to explain the aim and advantages of what is offered them. In connection with all district high schools taking the rural course it is proposed to have an extensive plan of field experimental work, designed to ascertaining and meeting the special needs of each district. In this we hope to have the interest and co-operation of the local farmers, and it is anticipated that thus the school will come to be regarded as of vital importance and indispensable to the well-being of the district. (4.) Help for those above school age : While the rural course will be of great benefit to those still at school, it is felt by some that something ought to be done for those above school age. It should be emphasized at fhe outset that the schools alone can give adequate teaching in agriculture; so that the best that can be done for those who have left school without this education is but a poor substitute for what has been missed. Still, a certain amount of useful help in some directions could be given by means of continuation classes, especially in centres where a. district high school taking the rural course is in existence, because there, and there only, would there be the suitable facilities for doing the work. Hitherto, however, in all attempts that have come under my notice to thus repair lost opportunities, the results have been meagre and disappointing, and I have little hope of doing much real good with those that have left school —at any rate, not until public sentiment on the subject undergoes a radical change. In this connection I may state that the local Technical College authorities have lately decided to apply for the salary of an itinerant instructor to go into the country districts to hold classes for the benefit of farmers' sons who have left school. In this our Board sees danger to the success of the rural course in its district high schools, for most farmers would be only too ready to have the help of
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their boys as soon as they could leave the primary school, thinking that any deficiencies could be repaired by attendance at these occasional classes. Even now the girls in our rural district —high schools are twice as numerous as the boys. We feel that agricultural education should be entirely under the control of the one Board, for only thus can conflict and overlapping be avoided.- I mention this in no spirit of antagonism to the Technical College, which I would "rather not have referred to in this connection, had not reference to the important principle involved made it necessary. (5.) Training of teachers in agriculture : That the work briefly touched upon in the foregoing paragraphs may be efficiently carried out it is imperative that our teachers be thoroughly trained. The special classes for teachers are helpful in this direction, but can never be a substitute for what should have been received at the training college. I should like to see the students at these institutions getting every facility for training in this important work, training which would make them not only better teachers of agriculture, but which would add very materially to their equipment in other directions. The teachers of the secondary classes in our rural district high schools in particular need to be well equipped for this work, which will never be thoroughly satisfactory while dependent on the visit once a week of an itinerant instructor. I am emphatically of opinion that the training of the students in our training colleges in this important branch of education should be given by the special instructors appointed to direct it in the various education districts. It is they who are more intimately concerned than any others with the ultimate success of this new undertaking. Failing this I feel that the work can never advance much beyond its present stage. 2. To Mr. Pirani.] We have not done anything in connection with agricultural work of •a practical nature outside of the schools up to the present. We have a piece of ground, about 5 acres, at New Brighton, which is in a rough condition at present, which is waiting to be used. We have no experimental plots outside of the schools. 3. To Mr. Wells.] I do not altogether favour continuation classes in agriculture for those who have left school. I would favour them if there could be nothing better, but I think it is a great pity if they are to be used in any way at all as a substitute for the better thing. As to the details, I have not thought of them much. In some cases the classes have been held in the afternoons, in other cases in the evenings, but I certainly think that they should only be held in schools where there are rural districts. I can see that there are advantages in a short winterday course as against evening courses. 4. To Mr. Davidson.} I do not find that nature-study and elementary agriculture in the primary schools occnp} 7 too much of the time of the children. I have inquired veiy generally round the district in order to see what time is being devoted to it, and the general answer is one houi" a week. I have not. the opportunity of comparing children in schools where agriculture is taken with the children from schools where such a course is not taken. I can only compare them with children who did not take it in years gone by. lam decidedly of opinion, however, that where it is taught as it should be taught it is of very very great advantage to them, Children taking up the work are generally very interested, and very responsive too. I think it is calculated to quicken their intelligence in every way. It would be quite possible to combine nature-study with such subjects as brush drawing and composition, more so perhaps than any other subjects in the curriculum. Instead of placing nature-study on the school time-table as a separate subject I would prefer to have the spirit of nature-study running through the whole if possible, and I think ten minutes or so given to the subject, between more arduous work, would be of great benefit. Upwards of 130 schools in this district have school-gardens in connection with them. I have not had any direct means of knowing if it has been found necessary to reduce the time given to such subjects as writing, arithmetic, or reading, in order to introduce the subject of nature-study and elementary science. I should judge not, because previously the place occupied by these subjects was occupied by elementary science, and it is simply taking the place of that. 5. To Mr. Hogben.] Taking these classes in agricultural subjects for those who have left school, if agricultural classes beginning at 3 or 4 o'clock and lasting till 5 or 6 o'clock in the afternoon wore carried on during the winter months, or during certain of the winter months, and none were admitted till they had reached the age of seventeen years, I am inclined to think that that would interfere with the attendance at the district high schools' rural course. I should rather suspect in some cases they would wait till they were seventeen; they would thin out tire secondary course. Ido not think they would later on, when the value of it became known; but it is just at first, when we really- want to get a secondary department like that firmly established, that it is most difficult to get people to see the value of and support it until it becomes a permanent thing. If there was a provision, however, that boys must attend continuation classes, say, from the age of fourteen to seventeen, in any case, that would prevent any evil being done by the first suggestion. You would get the boy one way or the other; you would get him between fourteen and seventeen in any case, and if he took continuation classes you would get him at seventeen for agriculture. I would mentiou, however, that I should not consider the opening of night classes or afternoon classes in that way good for making up what the boy would lose if he had not already taken the rural course. I could not say till we tried it whether these classes would militate against the district high schools and the rural course in them even if we had the provision for compulsory attendance from fourteen to seventeen at district high schools. The latter provision would certainly- provide a safeguard; a boy would have to take some education on these lines. 6. To Mr. Poland.] The subjects specified for the rural course are English, arithmetic, geography, in addition to what has been taken up by the Sixth Standard, book-keeping, woodwork for the boys, cookery for the girls, and the various branches of agricultural science, elementary surveying. Botany is also included in the course, also building construction, scale
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drawing, civics. It is practically the course suggested to the Department in 1909—there is verylittle variation in it. 7. To the Chairman.} I think the true vocational course is most decidedly to be found in the secondary schools. I am satisfied that the rural course in our high schools is sufficient to equip youths for the higher instructions they would receive at Lincoln College, for example, although Lincoln College can only take a limited number of students, there would be no objection to making the Matriculation Examination of a character that would enable boys who want to pursue an agricultural career to go to Lincoln College; but, personally, I have an objection to introducing the examination element too much in connection with the rural course. I think that element should be kept in the background as much as possible and discouraged — I mean the public examination. There might be a "leaving" examination, and on the strength of that those who wish to pursue the course might go forward to any institution in the Dominion. I was not aware that in America the theoretical instruction is given in the agricultural schools and the practical part is part of the school course. I should be inclined to say- that this was on the right lines. I suggested in my statement that we should go in for a more extended scope of experimental work, say, 2 or 3 acres, at least. We could do with 10 acres for that matter, but the difficulty would be to get such a large extent until interest in the work is created. William Brock examined on oath. (No. 85.) 1. To the Chairman,] I have been an Inspector under the North Canterbury Education Board for four years; previous to that 1 was headmaster of the Richmond School, and was for thirty-two years before that in the service of the Board as a teacher. The syllabus and inspection of schools : Practically the whole of my experience in connection with educational matters has been under the North Canterbury Board, and at no period has the interest in education been keener than it is to-day. This is due to the facilities which are afforded by our education system. Parents are beginning to realize the advantages that their children are receiving, and accordingly are taking more "interest in their intellectual welfare. The better type of our primary schools, judging from pupils which come to us from time to time, will compare ver3 7 favourably with the schools of other countries. Our primary schools to-day are turning out pupils more alert and resourceful than the3 7 did under former conditions. The present syllabus may have its faults, and it would be a wonderful creation if it had none, but it has found favour generally, and this opinion is gaining wider acceptance yjear by year as teachers and educationists come to realize its possibilities. It has given a new outlook to the teacher. It has allowed a great deal of latitude, but in this it has given the intelligent teacher opportunity- to strike out for himself, and to give to his work the imprint of originality. Pupils have now to deal with things and not with words and books. Many of the criticisms that are levelled at the syllabus proceed from a lack of understanding of its objects and aims. Frequently we hear that the " finished product " is less accurate in arithmetic; but those who make this allegation are direct descendants of those who, in our fathers' days of laborious examples that sometimes took days to solve, bewailed the sad decadence from the work that was done in the days of their youth. We live in times when every means of labour-saving is made use of, and the teacher who is keeping pace with the age seeks by short methods to save laborious calculations. Such training should make the pupil more alert and practical. Composition and comprehension are far in advance of what they were years ago, and the pupils of to-day 7 are able to express themselves with ease and to comprehend the meaning of the matter they read. Another charge brought against the syllabus is the multiplicity of subjects; but when we ask these detractors what subjects they- would leave out we find that they are nonplussed, or suggest some particular fad of their own. Sometimes we hear of a farmers' club asking that easy calculations of area should be taught; but if they studied the syllabus they would find that if the arithmetic of Standard VI has been taught properly this has been duly attended to. It is true that teachers of limited experience have found difficulty in drawing up their schemes, but this might be overcome by the issue of suggestive schemes; and, indeed, this has been done in a modified form by the Inspectors of the North Canterbury District. The syllabus is not the difficulty, but the interpretation of it. It is possible for an Inspector to magnify the importance of a subject and tend to direct the teaching into grooves. This, however,. will not be possible in a large district, as the constant communication and discussion among the various members of the inspectorate will widen the educational outlook. Upon the inspectorate depends the standard of attainment in a district, and the manner in which it carries out its duties will influence the teachers in formulating their ideas. In this district two visits are paid to each school, and wherever the teacher is inexperienced a third or even a fourth visit is made. Our Inspectors are also in written communication with many of the teachers, and in this way are able to do a considerable amount of organizing work. We are especially fortunate in having only a very small percentage of uncertificated teachers. One of our visits is for the purpose of observing methods and tendering advice, while the other is for the purpose of testing the efficiency of the instruction. Our testing is done by oral or written examination, and although there is a strong tendency to decry examinaiton I am satisfied that no substitute has yet been found to maintain the efficiency of the teaching and keep a good standard of attainment. Without examination if is impossible to test the success of a teacher's methods and discover whether the lesson "has been received as well as given." It has been suggested that the larger schools might be tested at intervals, but this would handicap teachers in such schools, as they would not. have the opportunity of bringing their work under the notice of the Inspectors and establishing their claims for promotion. District high schools, high schools, and technical schools : Closely allied with the subject of inspection is the question of granting proficiency certificates. Although the regulations permit such a certificate to be granted on the examination of the headmaster the Inspectors of this district have not followed that course.
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We examine all candidates, but in arriving at our decision take into consideration the genera] work of the pupils as shown at term examinations, and the head teacher's estimate of the child's ■•ability. The proficiency certificate given in this way should be the principal avenue of entrance to higher educational institutions, and those high schools which only admit on qualifying at certain examinations are losing many of the best pupils. All children do not develop at the s'aine rate, and many of those who distinguish themselves at an early age are a hothouse species which fail to realize expectations, while many who have developed, more slowly in the primary school in their new atmosphere show increased mental vigour. One of the weak places in our education system is the want of continuity between the primary and secondary courses. The secondary teachers charge the primary teachers with neglecting to prepare for their lines of work, but it seems to me that the reform will have to be in the direction of remodelling the secondary school methods so that their teachers will be able to build on the foundations laid in the primary schools. 1 believe that there is considerable overlapping in regard to the work done by high schools, district high schools, and technical schools. All these schools are devoting a considerable amount of their energies to preparing pupils for the Civil Service and Matriculation Examinations. The district high schools should be strictly on the lines of the rural courses laid down by the Department. Agriculture is our staple industry, and the instruction in the district high school should equip the pupils so as to enable them to make the most of our resources. The increased price of land is making it imperative that more scientific methods of agriculture should be introduced. The farmer who is to hold his own must be a man of intelligence and a man of resource. He must understand the why and the wherefore, and must not proceed on haphazard lines. Accordingly the district high school should afford the pupil opportunity of gaining knowledge of the principles of agriculture, ability to keep his accounts and measure correctly his fields, and clearness of expression and of understanding in his correspondence, with such a knowledge of his mother-tongue as will widen his outlook and make him a serviceable member of the State. The technical -school should cater for the town youths, who are destined to become mechanics. The citizen and the worker is concerned with such subjects as the materials used in industry, the tools of industry and how to handle them, the processes through which materials have to pass to make them useful, the keeping of accounts, the management of correspondence, and the public institutions of his country. To prepare for literary examinations should not be the work of technical schools, and no subject should be on its programme unless that subject should be necessary for the equipment of the worker. There is a feeling that subjects are taken up at the present time so as to increase the capitation claims. Strict inspection should be made to ascertain that money is not being wasted in this way. The high school should provide not only for the lad who is to become a classical scholar or a scientific engineer, but also for him who is contemplating a commercial career, and for this purpose should have a commercial side where courses would be provided in English, arithmetic, business principles and practice, trade and transportation, elementary economics, drawing, and civic obligations. It may be urged that the adoption of the rural courses of study will deprive country children of the opportunity of proceeding to the learned professions, but this difficulty may be easily surmounted. The adoption of the free-place system has done away with the necessity for scholarships as far as town children are concerned. Those who distinguished themselves in examinations might receive a small allowance for books, and the money saved from scholarships for city children might be devoted to boarding children of the country districts who have shown ability and are anxious to take up other callings than that of agriculture. Training and appointment of teachers : The difficulty of obtaining teachers is becoming somewhat acute, and the number of young people offering is insufficient to meet the demand. The lack of candidates is due to two causes —insufficiency of remuneration and the demands upon the time of the student. The youth who enters the teaching profession knows that until the close of his training course his evenings will be taken up with studies. He finds those in other walks of life have regular hours, after which they are free from the cares of their vocation. He has no time for amusements, but must work on. His rate of remuneration is lower than those who are engaged in other callings, although the qualifications necessary for appointment are so much greater. He must be exemplary in conduct, sound in body, have passed a qualifying examination, and possess, in short, all the virtues. Surely when we make such demands —and 1 think we are right in doing so —we ought to pay a salary which will attract. No profession is more iroble or has greater responsibilities. Upon the teachers will depend the future greatness of our country, and surely under such circumstances we will not grudge the payment of a salary that is as good as that paid to those called upon to perform mere routine duties. The training of our teachers is of the greatest importance, and we must not be content with training our teachers for the primary but also for the other types of schools. Even the training of our primary teachers is lacking in thoroughness. There is little or no continuity about the teaching practice. A further year's training in a good school before permanent employment would give some ideas of responsibility, of class control, and of various details in connection with registration and returns. The percentage of trained teachers in our secondary schools is not large, and the need of training for such teachers is most necessary. The district high school in connection with training institutions cannot give the training necessary. The training in the various subjects should be by experts, but' here we have at most about two teachers, and we cannot expect them to be experts in every subject of the high school curriculum. Experienced teachers in high schools should be associated with the training schools, and the benefit of their experience and training would be of assstance to those who are contemplating teaching in secondary schools. But the teachers in our technical schools also should have training not only in their particular subjects, but in class-control. Although the importance of manual subjects is acknowledged, our pupils are not at present receiving benefits commensurate with the expenditure. To realize to the full the benefits of manual work the instruction should be given
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in connection with the school, and duly co-ordinated with the various courses of study. While the work is carried on at centres this cannot be secured, but still some approach to the ideal might be-made. In cases that have come under my notice the drawings in connection with the woodwork were mere reproductions of a drawing made by the instructor, while cookery pupils were learning nothing of the chemistry of the subject. There should be graduated schemes, and the same course should not be followed year after year. Second-year pupils lose interest in their work when called uopn to repeat the programme of their previous year. A course of training would give experience in drawing up the schemes and knowledge of details. In connection with the appointment and promotion of teachers I believe the present system, if rightly worked, will give every facility for the promotion of good teachers. To make it thoroughly successful only requires backbone* on the part of the Board. The Board has the right to forward any number of names up to four for selection by the Committee. Of course, Committees want four names, as the more candidates that interview them the more important do they feel. 1 believe that the Board should only send two names. I advocate two names, as I think the personality of a teacher should count for something in all appointments. All efforts to canvas should be strictly prohibited, but on the night of selection both candidates should be asked to appear, and thus afford opportunity of judging of the personality. With the present system it is possible for a teacher outside a district to obtain an appointment in that district, but with a graded scheme of promotion a district becomes practically closed against outsiders. Education districts : The great number of education districts is not in the interests of education, and they should be reduced to, say, four in each Island. The advantages would be (1) economy of administration; (2) a raising of the type of men elected to Boards; (3) a wider interpretation of the syllabus (each district would have a Chief Inspector and staff of fnspectors, and this would conduce to a wider view and higher standard of education; (4) greater opportunities of promotion for teachers (as districts are at present constituted teachers in small districts are placed at a great disadvantage — they cannot get their work compared with that of large centres, and accordingly in some cases cannot get the credit that should be given when they apply for appointments in the larger districts); (5) greater powers could be intrusted to the Boards of such districts, and they could control primary, technical, and secondary education. These are a few of the advantages that 1 believe would accrue with larger districts, but I am certain that with such a constitution our Boards would be able to do most valuable work. Ido not belittle what they have already done, but 1 believe, with somewhat increased powers, they could do much to prevent overlapping, could reduce the expenditure of administration, could give surer means of promotion to the great body of teachers, improve the relations between the various branches of education, and generally promote the intellectual growth of our young people of both sexes. 2. Mr. Pirani.] In the matter of classification schemes for' promotion of teachers, and the closing of a district against outsiders, my reason for saying that was that the Chief Inspector in Auckland, where the} 7 have a scheme of that sort, was down here, and f put the question to him, "Does not your scheme close your district so far as outsiders are concerned?" He said, " I must acknowledge that it does, as far as outsiders are concerned. They can come in, but they would have to come in lower down. We cannot grade them, as if they we-e in our own district." There is nothing more to go upon than outside Inspectors' views, and sometimes Inspectors are inclined to discount, to some extent, the opinions of fnspectors from other districts. It is only a teacher who is actually known to them that they would be likely to take and place in as good a position as their own men. Without knowing a teacher personally you could only estimate hurr by another- man's opinion. Of course, his career, his work, and his status in the school, &c, count for something, but you would have to take into consideration the competition— witli whom he is competing. For instance, if he was in a small district, then you must consider him in other districts competing against men who perhaps have a higher standing than this particular man. A scheme such as they have in Auckland would be all right if you had it for the whole of New Zealand —not in every district, but for the whole of the Dominion —and then you would have to take the appointment out of the hands of the Board entirely. If each district were to try such a scheme I think the difficulty- in admitting those from outside would still exist. They would not have the same opportunity- as those within a district, and I think that a man in a small district is handicapped seriously at the present time, and I think that is one reason why, if we should adopt such a scheme of promotion within a district, that that district should be of considerable size and not a small district. I would suggest having about eight districts for New Zealand, four in the North Island and four in the South. We would then have a district smaller than the Auckland District, which I think is on the large side and might be divided into two. Our district has practically a scheme of that sort, because Inspectors in their own mind have every teacher graded, and we send forward our recommendations to the Board, and with very few exceptions they agree to same; it is very seldom that they have not accepted the advice of the Inspectors. I do not know that it would be an advantage to the service if the teachers themselves know the estimate formed of them by the Inspectors, if they were given particulars of their own classification, because they would not then know how they stood with others outside. Perhaps if a teacher were informed that in the opinion of the Inspector his " attention to environment " was " nil," or his " organizing " powers were " nil," he might do something to improve his status in that respect. There would be no objection to furnishing him with some concrete statement showing how the Inspectors view his different qualifications for his work. I would like a grading system provided it was a Dominion one; but it is going to take it out of the hands of the Board, I can see that. 3. To Mr. Poland.] In regard to sending on of two names to the School Committee, I take it that the Board would have two men who would have equal chances for the appointment, and then it would simply be a matter of personality when it came before the Committee. The Com-
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mittee would have an opportunity of deciding from the appearance, and so on, which would suit them. Ido not think it would be fairer to send on four names, as you may get two men who are -practically alike, but to get four men who are equal is a very difficult matter. 1 know that competitors favour four names because there is always a chance with four, and I could point out instances where that has procured a miscarriage of justice —where a teacher who was not first on the list got the appointment. I like very much to see the teacher who is first on the list get the appointment. If he stood out and was the best, the Board would say so. By " standing out " I mean that if I were grading him by percentages and he was 8 per cent, above the others; but if there was less than 5 per cent. 1 should say they were practically- even, and would send on both names to the Committee, and would leave it to tiie Committee to decide between the man who is 4 points ahead and the next man —that is, if they were both practically- equal men. The Committee could judge them by their personality, ido not think there are any Committees who would make an unwise choice in this respect, so long as there is no canvassing. The only way of stopping canvassing is by not giving them an opportunity —by only sending one name. I have had thirty-two years' experience as a teacher, and I am aware that canvassing does go on in connection wtih appointments. 4. Possibly some teachers will not degrade themselves by canvassing? —No; I think they all enter into the spirit of it as far as that is concerned. 5. You think that all teachers under the present system do it and get in in that way? —Yes, I think so. 6. Both the Board and the Committee?— Yes, lam afraid they do. 7. To Mr. Wells.] 1 take it that last statement expresses your experience in this district — that this system has introduced a general system of canvassing ? —There is canvassing, there is no doubt about that; in fact, it has brought to mind the fact that a candidate who did not go round to see some of the Committee, when applying for an appointment, was told that lie could not expect to get it if he did not take the trouble to go round. 8. There is at least one teacher in this district who will not demean himself? —Yes, he did not want the appointment. In regard to the training of secondary-school teachers, the training that is given at the training college should form part of the course, but I think that part of the course should be taken at a high school where they would be able to see the work done by men and women who were experts. I would not attach a high school to each of the training colleges. I think what wants to be done is to associate the teachers. There are some teachers whose methods it would not be advantageous for the students to see. I would pick out teachers of outstandingability in the high schools and send the trainees to watch their methods, but the rest of the course would be taken at the existing training college. In the case where a teacher is outgrowing his best work owing to age, I think he should be allowed to accept a less onorous position without sacrificing superannuation—that is, if he was not able to carry out the duties of his present position until such time as he gets superannuation; but Ido not think that very many of the teachers will find the work will get beyond -them up to the time they are allowed to retire. In regard to school libraries, most of the schools have a library. They have raised moneys in various ways, and sometimes the children have given little concerts of their own, sometimes the public has given, and that has formed the necleus of the library. I do not think the Boards supplement. It is done entirely by the teachers and some well-wishers of the children. I think most of the schools in this district are provided with libraries. I think if the Department were to provide a library and move it round from school to school it would be very helpful. It would help to inculcate a love of true literature. 9. To Mr. Davidson.] I have been attached to this district for over thirty years. 10. Did you ever find a difficulty in getting into another district? —Yes; I did try in the olden days and they would not have me, so I remained in Canterbury. 1,1. You said that you thought a Dominion scheme of promotion impracticable, because it would take the power out of the hands of Education Boards : were you present when Mr. Bignell propounded his scheme this afternoon?— Yes. 12. He suggested that a Board of classifiers should be appointed; that the teachers of the Dominion should be graded somewhat on the lines suggested by Mr. Pirani; that the Board of classifiers should select four names for the position, send on those four names to the Education Board of the district, and let the choice. That would not be taking the power entirely out of the hands of Education Boards, would it?—l do not think you would be any better off than at the present time in allowing the Committees to select. This would be a better plan than confining the choice to one small district. When I suggest that a book allowance of, say, £5 should be made to worthy city children, I think the selection would have to be done by means of examination. In the way of manual work I think that woodwork and cookery are the subjects best suited for our primary schools. Then we. have brushwork, paper-folding, and plasticine, and also carton-work. In the junior department I think carton-work is one of the best subjects. I think that woodwork for boys might be taken in the Fifth and Sixth Standards; it could be very well co-ordinated there with arithmetic and drawing; consequently it forms a really good subject. I think it is necessary that in every school the under-teachers should come under the review of the Inspector ; otherwise, when they applied for appointments their chances would be overlooked, unless the Inspector had some means of knowing how they were getting on in their positions. If the Inspector cut out his examination one year the assistant would, have no chance of showing what had been done; he might have improved very much, but would get no credit for it. I am quite certain that it is for the good not only of the assistants but also for the headmasters that the schools should be tested at certain intervals. 13. To Mr. Hogben.] With regard to the training of secondary-school teachers, I do not think it is necessary that most of the secondary-school teachers should be graduates. I would
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give a secondary-school teacher the same period of time in the training college that I would give the primary teacher. I think the graduate should have two years in the training college. As to whether graduates would be prepared to face this and thus postpone the period at which they would earn a salary, their opportunities afterwards should be materially improved from the fact that they had had a thorough training; their chances of promotion ought to be very much better. .If-they went to a training college after taking their degree, there would be all the matters in "connection with their profession that they could devote their attention to; they would not have had much training in this, even if they had been pupil-teachers. A certain amount of their time might be allowed for research-work in connection with some of the subjects they had taken for their degree. I would give these graduates a chance of observing expert secondary teachers teach. I do not think the teachers in all the secondary schools are equally expert. It might be that in some there would be no expert teachers. In this case the graduates might be transferred for a part of their course to another town. As to deciding which teachers in the high schools should be observed by the graduates, this might be done by consultation between the Inspector of the local Board, the Principal of the training college, the Principal of the high school, and an officer of the Department. 14. To the Chairman.] As to where the vocational course "should begin, I think that, with the exception of manual work, this should commence in the secondary or the technical school. I feel certain I am right in saying that our Board regards a license to teach, where the person does not hold a certificate by reason of being under age or not having qualified in all the subjects, as equivalent to a provisional certificate. I do not think there should be any deduction from a person's salary when he is so nearly qualified. 15. To Mr. Davidson.] I think that before regulations are issued by the Department due notice should be given to those who may be seriously affected by them. There might be some difficulty in teachers in the backblocks meeting the requirement of eighty hours practical work in some subjects; but in the case of any one going in for a certificate, J think provision might be made for his attending at large centres during midwinter holidays and at a later period of the year, and taking up that part of the work. If teachers are very anxious Ido not think they will object to devoting their holidays to this. 16. To Mr. Poland.] I do not think that teachers in North Canterbury get too many holidays when they have the time allotted by the Board. I think they get quite enough. 17. To the Chairman.] 1 think it, would have a very good effect indeed if an allowance were paid to representatives of primary and secondary schools going on holiday leave for inspecting and reporting on the systems of education in vogue in other parts of the world. It was proposed, I think, at one time by the Inspectors' Conference that every teacher should spend at least one week during the year in a school other than the teacher's. I think that would be a very fine training for them, and would do them good. Charles Dorey Hardie examined on oath. (No. 86.) 1. To the Chairman ] I am an Inspector under the North Canterbury Education Board, and have been for the last two years. Before that I was for thirty-four years a teacher. I was for six years headmaster of the West Christchurch District High School, seven years headmaster of the Ashburton High School, seven years headmaster at Papanui School, and for ten years on the Normal training staff, the greater part of that time as first assistant. I have prepared the following statement, which I will read. I should just like to say that these notes were made under somewhat high pressure and amid a good many distractions, and probably the setting might have been considerably improved. This is the statement : I have been asked to say a few words with regard to the district high schools of North Canterbury, but before doing so I should like, as a teacher of some experience, to bear testimony to many good points in our present primaryschool system. This, though by no means perfect, is nevertheless a vast improvement on the one it superseded, in so far as it emphasizes the necessity for all-round development, and for a training in the powers of reasoning and observation as opposed to the mere reproduction of knowledge from memory. I have no hesitation in saying that the finished product of our best schools to-day is better equipped for the battle of life than under the old regime. So far as the spirit and inner conception of the syllabus are concerned we are on sound lines. There is no doubt that freedom of classification has been a great boon; improved relations exist as between teacher and taught, a brighter and more sympathetic atmosphere prevails in our schools, and psychologically better methods are in vogue. The weaker teachers need guidance and direction, and the more so as so much is left to personal initiative; but where Inspectors do their duty, and realize the responsibilities involved, much can be done to ensure the requisite assistance beinggiven. With a great deal of the criticism levelled at our schools I have little patience. The ordinary layman, while modest enough to confess frankly his ignorance of law, medicine, engineering, &c, hesitates not to air his views on the science and art of education, and unblushingly poses as an expert in a subject that has taxed the wisest intellects from the earliest times to the present, and on which the last word will probably never be said. There is one point I should specially like to emphasize, and that is the fact that we are all apt at times to forget that the school is only cne among a number of educative influences at work on the child—the home, the social environment, the church, the trend of public thought, and the ideals, whether true or false, that the community at large keeps before it. Now, I have no hesitation in saying that parental control is increasingly lax, that amid the feverish pursuit of pleasure the responsibilities of life are in many cases faced with less grit, will-power, and determination than formerly, the social atmosphere too often contains little that is uplifting or inspiring, and the influence of the church will never be all it should till denominationalism is swept out of existence, and till men and women, meeting on the platform of a broad and common humanity that recognizes neither
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differences of creed nor of social caste, unite in acceptance of those fundamental principles, ethical truths, and religious beliefs on which all are at heart agreed. A colonial type is being .-evolved containing, with much good, many imperfections, and to hold our schools responsible for more than an extremely modest share of these is manifestly unjust. With regard to the syllabus -of instruction, the child of to-day attempts in school a wider course of reading, under •skilful treatment his powers of composition are greater, and he shows more manual dexterity. On the other hand, history does not receive the attention it deserves, in geography the pendulum has swung too far towards the mathematical and physical side, and in arithmetic the programme of work as distributed among the various classes needs rearranging; while the importance of a systematic training in dealing with numbers mentally is not sufficiently emphasized, and this, to my mind, is responsible for much of the want of accuracy in the written exercises. Further improvement might be effected by taking, in the upper standards, the so-called nature-study, or elementary science in connection with the geography and workshop practice, or, in the case of the girls, in connection with their geography and domestic science. In this connection I hold strongly that neither woodwork nor cookery should be dissociated, as at present, from the ordinary school-work. These subjects should be taught at the school and by members of the regular staff. Not only is there serious loss of time in going backwards and forwards to the various centres, but the teachers have no guarantee that proper correlation exists as between the work done in these classes and the ordinary work of the school. Now, with regard to our district high schools, the) 7 are rendering good service, and providing facilities for continuation work on vocational lines, and for some measure of secondary education which otherwise would be beyond the reach of such of our boys and girls as, through force of circumstances, are compelled to face the responsibility of becoming wage-earners within at most a year or two after gaining their proficiency certificates in Standard VI. These schools aim at broadening and strengthening the education received in the primary school; they afford opportunities for a wider culture, largely by study of standard English authors; they give some measure of training on the vocational side, and —most important of all —at a critical period in the child's development they attempt to inculcate a spirit of devotion to duty, and of honest, persevering self-effort, that must prove of inestimable value in after-life. The teachers are, as a rule, men and women who have served an apprenticeship in the primary schools, and who are more or less trained for the practice of their profession. The secondary work undertaken can thus be carried on without a break in the continuity of the instruction, and hence with economy of time and effort. In most cases tone and discipline are excellent. It is now proposed by our Board to establish district high schools on vocational lines in such districts as evince a desire for rural courses of instruction, in which scientific and experimental agriculture will form a prominent feature. There is no doubt that in the past some of our district high schools have failed of success owing to the fact that the needs of the community were not sufficiently recognized, and a mere smattering of half a dozen so-called secondary subjects was imparted, with little regard to correlation or to the requirements of individual pupils. And, as has been well said, " this being the period of adolescence, more regard should be paid to individual differences, whether of capacity, environment, or opportunity." Personally, I sincerely hope the Board's attempt will succeed, as to send children of that age long distances from the country into the town is demoralizing. Not only are country children apt to become discontented with their rural envirbnment, but there is a deplorable loss of time, great nervous strain due to travel, and a real danger lest, owing to lack of supervision in transit, loose, careless, and slovenry habits be formed. So far from young people in a country such as ours being encouraged to gravitate towards the town, the tendency should be entirely in the opposite direction. I have laid stress on the disciplinary value of further teaching beyond Standard VI limits, and, a propos of the recent proposals to extend the period of compulsory schooling, T should like to quote a short paragraph from a recent volume on " The School," in the Home University Library : " Every youth, boy, or girl, even if able to earn some wages, needs to be retained under strong control until he has completed the first portion of adolescence —namely, until the age of eighteen or thereabouts. In olden days this was well understood; if a lad was not at school he was a page at court, or an apprentice in a shop. At the present day the increasing demand for continuation schools, and for the extension of compulsory training beyond the age of fourteen, shows that we are not content with our modern laxity as regards the disciplinary control of youth : the hooligan and the larrikin are the direct outcome of our dereliction of duty, and there is no more pressing problem in education at the present time than that concerned with the oversight and training of adolescents." With resrard to the salaries paid to assistant teachers in the secondary department of district high schools, T consider them inadequate. The highest scale salary offered is less than that of the first assistant in a city school, though special qualifications are necessary, and a higher degree of general culture exacted —a university degree being in many cases a sine qua non. If the work is to be well done we should attract to the services of our district high schools the most gifted of our young teachers. Moreover, the amount naid to the headmaster of such a school should bear some proportion to the work and responsibility entailed, not, as at present, .£3O, irrespective of the size of the secondary department. The secondary department of the West Christchurch District High School has a staff of six assistant teachers, and a roll number of over 200, yet the headmaster only receives the same amount for his extra work and responsibility as the headmaster of a small rural district high school, the secondary department of which may have less than a score of pupils under a nualified teacher able to cone effectively with the whole of the secondary work. 2. To Mr. Kirk.~\ As to.the teaching of cookery in the primary schools. I think this might be commenced in Standard V if the programme comprised what I understand by domestic science —nfvmelv, a gfood deal of the laws of health and hysriene, and so on, and less of the active recipe business. This could only be done in city and suburban schools. As to the teaching of sexual
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physiology in the schools, I think this is a subject that ought to be approached with very great care. As a parent with boys and girls of my own, I prefer that it should be left to the parent, great delicacy in handling a subject of that kind. I think it is rather the personal aspect of the matter than the teaching of the class generally that could be of much good. I think in many instances moving-picture shows are demoralizing in their effects. If representations made to "the Legislature —public opinion backing those representations vp —led to a censorship it would be very desirable. Ido not agree with the suggestion that there should be separate schools for boys and girls after the Fourth Standard. As to equal pay for men and women doing equal work, I think there is an economic question which should be taken into consideration as justification for differentiation. A man usually has to look after the interests of a good many more than himself, while a woman generally looks to marriage as the consummation of her life's work. 3. To Mr. Wells.} I realize there is very great diffidence on the part of parents in speaking to their children on sexual matters. I would favour instruction in sexual physiology being given in the schools if I could be assured that it would be given by the right individual and in the right way. If it were a case of departmental regulation being issued that sexual physiology should be taught at a certain age in certain schools by the teachers in charge of certain classes, I should say the experiment would be much too dangerous a one. There would be a danger in this instruction being given by specialists, because the specialist would probably be a stranger to the children, and instruction of this nature coming from a stranger might do harm. As to overlapping between high schools and technical schools, I think probably there is a measure of this, but I do not know that it is a very serious one. Within certain limits I do not know that a little overlapping is altogether undesirable. I would prefer to see some measure of overlapping rather than deprive any children of the opportunity of proceeding with their education. If the Education Board controlled primary, secondary, and technical. education it would probably lead to less overlapping. If the School Committees were to elect a Board which would manage all education in Canterbury short of the University I should be against the proposal to place the control of all education under such a Board. 4. To Mr. Pirani.] My objection to the Education Board managing all education is that the method of election by the Committees may lead to the wrong class of man being elected. But I should like to give the matter more consideration before expressing a definite opinion. 5. To Mr. Davidson.] I think the finished product of our best primary schools to-day is equal to, or better than, the finished product of ten years ago. During the last three or four years much less time has been given by the Inspectors to the examination of the larger and better equipped schools. Personally- I should favour examination at longer intervals, if necessary, but the staffs are changing, and there are always one or two members of the staff that one would like to see. If there were less examination of the larger schools the Inspectors would have more time to attend to the inexperienced teachers. In the case of some schools a considerable amount of time is lost in the children going from their own schools to the centres for instruction in woodwork and cookery. The school where the children are usually taught is the proper place for woodwork and cookery instruction. The educative side of manual training is the one wo want. As to the new regulations for the examination and classification of teachers, I have not studied these. As to whether the taxpayer is getting an adequate return for the money spent on education, I think the primary schools are as efficient as ever they were. I think that the principle of paying capitation largely on units of attendance is not the best way of getting value for services rendered. I think it possible that sums of money may- have been paid in capitation, and the results educationally have not been what they should have been. As to free books, I think the money at present spent on these ought to be expended in another wa} 7 —that is to say, in supplying stationery, paper, copybooks, and suchlike requisites to the children, and not the actual text-books. I do not think the parents object so much to the purchase of the actual text-books as to all these little incidentals. Schools of from thirty to forty are difficult schools to work at present. It would be desirable if they could be given some help. 6. To Mr. Hogben? The institutions giving education of secondary rank in Christchurch, excluding proprietary- schools, are —Christ's College, the Bo3 7 s' High School, the Technical School, the West Christchurch District High School, the Girls' High School, and the School of Art. The School of Domestic Instruction is now' amalgamated w 7 ith the Technical School. A good deal of work of an elementary character was being done at the School of Engineering which could and ought to be done at the Technical School. There is also a small class at the Normal District High School. If the work done in each of these institutions is distinct, or to some extent distinct, from the work done in the others, T do not see why there should not be this number of institutions carrying on secondary work in this city. A secondary school such as the West Christchurch District High School may to some extent be an anomaly in a large town school, but it is an anomaly that was wanted, and I do not see win 7 it is not wanted now 7 . I think it is quite right that there should be in a town of this size a d.-y technical school, a district high school, and secondan 7 schools, as long as the schools are catering for different classes and doing different work. I think you can get as high efficiency with four institutions as you could by some degree of amalgamation. 7. To the Chairman? The Boys' High School and Girls' High School have not so far made provision for free-place children. This might be a, reason why the control of all education — primary and secondar} 7 —should be under one properly constituted authority; but I would not go so far as to say that that authority should be the Education Board. I approve of outside schools, such as private secondary schools, being inspected by the public-school Inspectors, as a guarantee that the work is being well done. I favour a central Council of Education for the Dominion.
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8. To Mr. Poland.] The pupils at the West Christchurch District High School who are receiving instruction in typewriting, shorthand, book-keeping, woodwork, and cookery could ""be taught these subjects at the day Technical School. At the former school there is only a very limited course of secondary work, such as Latin, French, and mathematics. Only one language is taken'there, and they do a class of work, 1 think, other than that taken at the ordinary high "schools, inasmuch as they take in the young child who is desirous of taking, say, from six months to two years' continuation work, with the idea of going to some class of wage-earning rather than improving his general education. Then there is an agricultural class and a commercial class, and there is a class of pupils who take work as far as Matriculation with a view to entering the teaching profession; and there are some who take the Junior Civil Service. 9. Is it not a fact that free-place pupils who go to an ordinary- high school —not a district high school—can there take the two years' course that you refer to? —They have not had the facilities. 10. But is it not possible it could be done, given the facilities? —If you had an institution so organized as to provide those facilities in the right way it certainly could.
Wednesday, 26th June, 1912. Leonard F. De Berry examined on oath. (No. 87.) 1. To the Chairman.] I am a teacher under the Westland Education Board, and am headmaster of the Hokitika District High School. I have been for nine months in that position, and was previously- sixteen years under the Grey Education Board. I am an M.A. of the New Zealand University, and my certificate is 81. I desire to place before you certain aspects of the education system of New Zealand, more especially those that force themselves upon teachers in the small and isolated districts. (I.) Number of Education Boards: Without doubt there are too many Education Boards in New Zealand, and when we look at Auckland, with its 39,588 pupils and 545 schools, and compare it with Westland, having 1,151 pupils and thirty-five schools, we are forced at once to conclude that here we have not equality, but the greatest of inequality in every phase. I shall not touch upon the financial aspect oi this inequality, but shall confine my attention to the consideration of the child in the big district and the child in the small district, for, after all, the education system exists for the benefit of the child and not of the administrators. The big district, with its university, its training college, its technical college, and its large schools, naturally attracts the most efficient teachers, while the small district repels them, hence we find, that the small district has the lov est percentage of certificated teachers, the numbers ranging from 86 per cent, in North Canterbury to 36 per cent, in Westland. More than this, the larger and more efficient the district the more it tends to become a close corporation; Education Boards naturally promote their own teachers, and the young, enthusiastic, and capable teacher in the small district is shut out of the larger districts owing entirely to the parochial system of appointment. Hence the evil effect of the high wall that surrounds the favoured district —the smaller districts are slowly losing good teachers, and getting untrained, uncertificated teachers in their place. Again, the sole, or almost the sole method of getting from a small district into a larger one is by a sacrifice of from £80 to £120 salary. Is this just? Is this the way to encourage the teacher? Can the children thus get wffiat they should get? Does the State get the best value for money spent in this manner? Thus the number of certified and trained teachers in the smaller districts of Grey and Westland is yearly decreasing. The only way to remedy this defect is to establish four education districts and make these coterminous w 7 ith the four university districts, although even here, owing to geographical conditions, a slight rearrangement may be necessary. (2.) The promotion of teachers is another question closely bound, up with education districts. Every one agrees that the methods of canvassing and buttonholing should be rendered impossible. If a large district like Auckland can successfully inaugurate and work a promotion scheme, then there should be no insuperable difficulty to the establishment of a scheme where the efficiency of the teacher shall be the determining factor in promotion. If this Commission does no other work than break down the walls that surround the thirteen districts it will do notable work, in the cause of education. (3.) Consolidation of rural schools : Despite the fact that many parts of the Dominion are badly supplied with roads, yet it is incontrovertible that there is too great a multiplication of small schools. Every district can supply examples. In Westland in one district four schools exist in a radius of five miles, with the result that one teacher found that the longer she taught the less salary she obtained, for new schools drew off pupils from her school. In Grey a movement is afoot to establish another small school; and if successful it will reduce the grade of a neighbouringschool, so that the staff and salary will also be reduced and the education supplied be less efficient. Every part of the world that has tried the consolidation of rural schools supplies a bright example of its success. It should be a definite part of the policy of the Department to refuse to allow 7 a new school to be built if the children can be conveyed suitably to a central school. This way makes for efficiency in every respect, (4.) Inspectors: Inspectors should undoubtdely be nnder the control of the Department in so far as the interpretation of the syllabus is concerned. This would prevent the varying requirements of different Inspectors, and help to make the value of the leaving certificate approximately equal throughout New Zealand. Moreover, Inspectors should be paid upon a Dominion scale, which should be such as to attract to the ranks of Inspectors
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the best teachers in the profession. (5.) Salaries of secondary assistants : These need a material increase. The salaries at present offered are not at all commensurate with the importance of the wo*4i required of these teachers. (6.) Free books : The money expended on free books could be better used in other directions. There never was a demand for free books, and even now the great majority of the parents still purchase books for their children. (7.) The syllabus : The fallowing are the parts of the syllabus that need readjusting : («.) Arithmetic should be more evenly distributed over the standards, (b.) Geography should have much of the mathematical work deleted, (c.) English :If we are to keep our enunciation and pronunciation at all pure, definite teaching in phonics should be compulsory, (d.) History : This subject is much neglected. Upon all hands we hear demands for vocational training, but too many of us forget that first and foremost our vocation is "citizenship," and that no man who is ignorant of the history of the past of his race can be a good citizen. And yet the subject of all subjects that helps to develop good citizens is treated in a most scant manner. Everywhere history is neglected; look at the marks given for it in the Junior Civil Service —200 maximum as against 400 for Maori. It even gets as many as shorthand or as book-keeping. A boy of average intelligence can learn enough book-keeping in four months to pass the Junior Civil Service, and yet that subject carries as many marks as does history. Suiely, looked at from the point of its educative as well as its utilitarian value, history is above book-keeping. (8.) Staffing of schools : The time has now come when pupil-teachers should not count upon the staff of a school. The school should be fully staffed by assistant teachers, and whatever trainees or pupil-teachers there may be should be supernumeraries—not a definite part of the staff. In this as in everything else pertaining to education we must seek the good of the child that is the future citizen. What benefits the child —not what is cheaper —should be the deciding factor. 2. To Mr. Davidson.] I heard one witness yesterday state that he thought that in schools having an average attendance of between thirty and forty, the first addition to the staff should be that of a pupil-teacher, but 1 cannot agree with that at all. I think that those schools need assistance, but the assistance should be given in the nature of a certificated teacher —on no account a pupil-teacher for a difficult position like that. Of course, if the schools were consolidated, as we wish to have them, we would not then have a number of these schools; but even then I think a school with an average attendance of thirty in these country districts certainly requires two teachers —the work is so difficult. I know that prior to the introduction of the colonial scale, in many districts additional assistance was not granted until the attendance reached fifty, and that additional assistance in the form of a certificated teacher was not granted until the average reached forty; later on it was reduced to thirty-six. I would certainly rather have two fully certificated teachers in a school where the attendance reached thirty than have one certificated teacher and a pupil-teacher or probationer. I would prefer to have no assistance until the average attendance reached thirty-six than have any form of assistance except a fully certificated teacher, because I think, if you put a probationer or pupil-teacher in that school with the untrained teacher that you will have possibly in charge of the school, that the pupil-teacher cannot get properly prepared for his work by the teacher in charge of the school; and, more than that, the children themselves would not get any benefit. I know that that would be a Grade 3 school carrying a salary of £150 to £180 per year with a free house, but there are not many on the Coast of that grade. I do not know the certificate that the teachers in those schools generally hold, but, speaking of the Coast, the teachers in those schools are quite uncertificated. I should not think there would be more than about two schools in my district having an attendance of between thirty and forty, but I am not quite certain. I. am aware that when the new staffing comes into full operation probationers will be allowed on the basis of one for every 1,200 pupils in the education districts. I certainly think it would be wise to increase the number of suitable candidates seeking entrance to our training colleges, and if these teachers in charge of the above grades of schools were qualified teachers, then I would see no objection to having a probationer. Under these conditions I think such an arrangement would be in the interests of education. As far as I am concerned 1 do not think, the syllabus is overloaded; I certainly think some of the subjects want rearranging, but I personally could not suggest any one subject that we could leave out. In regard to manual training in the primary schools, I think that the methods of manual work should obtain throughout the whole school, but that too much time should not be given to manual work as a subject. If ;the methods that manual work requires were infused into every subject I think we would get all that is required.. In my school we take paper-mounting, folding, plasticine, cardboard-modelling , —that is all. I think that these subjects, instead of being paid for by capitation, should form part of the ordinary school-work, and that the Board should be supplied with money sufficiently ample for the materials. I do not like the idea of the separate capitation business at all. Since the method of paying for technical work by capitation has been in vogue the clerical work of the headmaster has, I expect, been trebled as a consequence. We have no woodwork and cookery classes in Westland at present. There were classes, I believe, some three or four years ago. The Grey District is taking them at present. Woodwork and cookery are not taught in any of the primary schools in Westland. •'5. To Mr. Welh.] There are only 36 per cent, of the total number of teachers in our district who have certificates. Of course, in reaching those numbers T have included pupil-teachers, because at the present time pupil-teachers count as an integral part of the staff. I am certain that this large proportion of uncertificated teachers in our district is partly due to the smallness of the district, because when a position becomes vacant and is advertised for, very rarely is an application received from outside the district; but it sometimes happens that by some process of sacrifice a teacher in one of the higher positions may get out of the district, and then there would probably be promotion in the district, and the lowest position would then go to one of these girls who is perhaps nothing more or less than Sixth Standard by certificate. So you see, although it is a slow process, yet the best teachers do get out sometimes by personal sacrifice, and the
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teachers left behind are on the average lower graded than the teachers there beforehand. J know some years ago in Grey there were far more certificated teachers in the small schools than at the •■present time. I certainly think the small scope has a deadening effect on the teachers. There is only one school of about Grade 5 in the district. If there were an amalgamation of districts, and the amalgamation were on the lines that I. suggested, on the lines of the four university colleges, with training college and university as the natural centre for the district, then I am quite certain the deadening effect that is creeping over the district would at once be swept away; but, on the other hand, if, as is sometimes suggested, a, purely West Coast District were erected, then our last state would be little better than our first state. We look with very great favour upon the policy of amalgamation, provided the amalgamation is one that makes the education districts that will then obtain in New Zealand as nearly even as possible. Four university districts would not necessarily combine the West Coast with Wellington and Hawke's Bay. I said in my statement that even with the university districts slight rearrangements may be necessary, in order to secure uniformity as far as possible, and uniformity of opportunity for those wanting it. With legard to uncertificated teachers, I think it might possibly assist matters if they were allowed to take the D examination, say, in three sections. I certainly do not like the new regulations with regard to Class D—the ones that are going to compel the country teachers in the backblocks to do more work for the first section than was required from former teachers for the whole work, and particularly that part that compels these backblocks teachers to do practical work in regard to their science That is merely going to make this certificate quite out of the reach entirely of these teachers. 1 certainly admit that a teacher should have some training in scientific methods, and that he should do some practical work, and if the Department were to offer facilities to bring this practical work into the horizon of teachers my objections would quite disappear. I think that teachers might be allowed to take the D either in three sections, or have the sections rearranged to make them more nearly even. At the present time the first section is so much bigger than the other. There are not many teachers' houses in Westland. The one or two that exist are (I am speaking comparatively) in a good state. In fact, I understand that two of the places over there are much above the average, and some of the houses are very small. In regard to term examinations, for some schools three are quite necessary, but 1 do not think all that clerical work should be required of the bigger schools. I do not think the headmaster should be compelled to enter up fully the hundred-and-one details that are required for each of these term examinations. I think that two would be quite sufficient. 4. To Mr. Thomson.] I do not think that reducing the Education Boards to four would tend to destroy local interest in education. I think if that were done the Committees of the various school districts would of necessity have slightly more power, and that would, I think, tend to quicken the interest rattier than deaden it. I would not abolish the Boards altogether, because if we had no Education Boards at all it just means that we are to get everything from the Centra] Department, and I do not think that is wise. Increasing the powers of the School Committees would not be making the School Committees the Boards. The Committees would have direct work to do with regard to the local affairs of the one or perhaps two schools in their districts. I fixed the number at four because there would be four university districts, and I do not think an education district is complete unless it has in its own boundaries primary schools, high schools, technical colleges, universities, and training colleges. If you are going to make a. greater number than four education districts, how are you going to get equality of opportunity ? Four Boards would have training colleges and universities, and the other Boards would have none of these advantages, and the teachers under the four Boards containing training college and university would be in a far better position than those districts not so benefited. 5. Suppose a young man in Auckland wanted to study engineering, he would have to come to Canterbury?— Yes; but that is quite a different matter. As you form Education Boards, and as you give Boards certain powers, so you are going more or less to erect a fence round that district : you cannot help it. Every teacher should have the opportunity of getting to the university in order to complete his training, or his professional training, certainly to improve himself in literary attainments. Well, if you are going to have an Education Board that does not have a university, then in order to get to the university a teacher must get to another education district, and he is going to have difficulty in getting from one district to another. 6. Do you not think that of Education would be very expensive : there would be much travelling-expense; would they not be more expensive than under the present system? —No, Ido not think so. Take the Education Board in Auckland : they have thirty-thousand-odd children and 545 schools. It costs them only 39 per cent, for administration, whereas Westland costs B'l for administration. Auckland is the largest district, and T presume they would have to pay the largest amount of travelling-expenses to their member's, and yet their proportion for office expenditure is the lowest in New Zealand. If you erected four education districts you would not have one of the districts larger than Auckland, and I am quite certain that no member of these Boards would have to travel a longer distance than the members of the Auckland Education Board. lam not aware that a desire lias been expressed in Auckland to have the Auckland District divided. 7. To Mr. Kirk.] We do not take the rural course in my school. Down our- way we have practically no agriculture, although further south there is a tendency to commence operations. I do not think 'it is the duty of a primary-school teacher to give vocational training. It maybe possible in the secondary department of district high schools to commence some system of vocational training. I think, it should be merely commenced, however. I would not like to make the rural course compulsory in the district high schools, because those schools situated in mining- areas, for example, should have the option accorded to them of taking their course to suit local requirements. If you take district high schools in the Thames district, the require-
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nients there would be more for chemistry. 1 may say that in our District High School the trouble is there is no demand at all for any special local training, because practically every boy and gird who goes to the High School there goes with the object of passing Junior Civil Service and Matriculation, and getting off the Coast as soon as possible. We keep a very small proportion indeed of the pupils who pass through the High School. I would not say that the rural course U5 not of an. educative nature. We do not take it because there is such a thing as demand and supply. The demand down there is for the teacher to prepare the pupil to get off the Coast. 8. Then he goes away to some other district which is not mining : is he therefore trained for the work in that other district, which is not a mining district? —You see, nearly all these boys who leave get into Government positions. 9. And you do not think it necessary to train them in agriculture?—No, not at present. Some time in the dim future we might possibly do it, but it is not required now. I think the aim of education in the primary schools should be to give a boy a good general grounding, and to so prepare Iris mind that he may be in a position to avail himself of any higher educational institution that may offer later on. His mind should be trained by purely mental activity and handwork, so close is the connection between the two. I would have the methods of manual work throughout the school. I would have as much activity displayed by the child in doing arithmetic as I possibly could. The more he uses his hands the better his brain is developed. We do not teach shorthand and typewriting in Hokitika. There must be time in the school hours for such subjects in the secondary department, if you are going to have a commercial side. If you are working as we are, with such a demand by the parents for examinations, then there is not time. 1 do not think it would be quite possible under the present system to do effective work so far as Matriculation and Junior Scholarship Examinations are concerned, if at the same time we were carrying on such subjects as shorthand and typewriting —that is, if the child who is going in for Matriculation is also doing shorthand and commercial subjects. Ido not think under the present conditions that we could do it. I am certain that the youth of the West Coast who is qualifying for a Government Department is doing a fair amount of general reading. lam sure he is reading just as wisely and deeply as the youth in any other part of New Zealand. I base my opinion on the general intelligence of the child and by his original compositions. I think a boy's original compositions show better than anything whether he is reading and how carefully. As regards libraries, Hokitika has a very good library, so also has Greymouth—both Carnegie libraries. There are one or two libraries in the smaller towns where the schools are, but in the Westland District the libraries are not very good. There are three very good libraries in the Grey District. All the fair-sized schools have a library, including my own. We have not standard libraries —all the children from the standards have the use of it. We find the children make good use of the books. The School Journal is doing very good work, but it is rather too stodgy, which is the chief complaint from the point of view 7of both the teachers and the children. It is not quite so readable as it might be. The information given is excellent. The lower numbers are much better than the three higher numbers. We have heard that the parents read it more frequently than the children. I do not know why they do so; 1 cannot speak from that point of view from my own experience, but 1 can quite imagine that they would. The Third Part, for Standards V and VI, to my mind conveys too much information. It is not put in such an attractive form as it might be for the child. In favoured homes where parents are interested in the work of their children they would discuss the Journal with them, but all homes are not favoured. The father might read the paper and keep all the information to himself : he might not discuss it with the child. 10. To Mr. Pirani.] We teach nature-study in my school. That will not necessarily give children a bent in the direction of agriculture. Nature-study is not tied down particularly to agriculture —it covers a very wide field. The large schools on the West Coast take elemental'} science. There is a great deal in elementary science that pertains to agriculture. I do not think in the primary schools you should specialize so much with your nature-study. I do not think you should take any one phase and work that out. Nature-study is really a method rather than a subject, and it should be so. Educating children in methods of that sort apparently does not have the effect of giving them a bent away from the Civil Service. I think it would be quite impracticable to preclude the Civil Service from taking any one who is under twenty-one. I cannot see how 7it could be worked. The desire on the part of our young folk to get into the Civil Service may have a tendency to discount education for anything else than the Civil Service; it is a tendency- that 1 deplore Ido not think the boys are making the Civil Service the end of their training, however- We have no continuation schools in Westland. In the Grey District I think they have at the present time a shorthand and typewriting class, or something like that. The proportion of children who leave school before they have passed the Sixth Standard in Westland is just about the same as in other districts. For these pupils I think it would be advisable to institute compulsory continuation classes. If there was a colonial system of classification and promotion of teachers it would do away to a certain extent with a good deal of the grievances of the small districts, but I think the two go hand-in-hand. I think you would be able to work your promotion scheme much more efficiently if you had larger districts; but even if it were possible to work a colonial scheme of promotion with the districts as they stand I think there is a woful w 7 aste of money, and I think everything would be better administered by having the four Education Boards as I have outlined. 11. Do you not think that the system of putting all expenses of the government of the district on the percentage basis is rather a fallacious one?— Well, as things are at present it appears to be the only way they can possibly do it. 12. Take, for instance, the question of the salaries of teachers : what has that to do with the management of the district? Surely that is not. cut up or down according to the good or
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bad management, and if you are basing your percentage of expense on the salaries in that district, is not that an unfair percentage I—Do1 —Do I understand you to say that that percentage for adminis•■t ration in Auckland (39) is based on the teachers' salaries? 1.3. 1 say, basing the cost of administration of the district on the total expenditure in that district is unfair if you include teachers' salaries? —Personally, I do not know how these figures are obtained —39 for Auckland and B'l for Westland. 14. To Mr. Hogben.] I do not know the basis on which the table of marks is constructed for the Junior Civil Service subjects, but I know history gets 200 and Maori 400. 15. Do you know how many hours generally it is found necessary to teach English in secondary schools in order to bring it up to the standard of the Civil Service Junior Examination? —About five or six hours, I think. 16. And the number of marks given to that?— Six hundred. 17. And do you know the amount of time necessary to teach geometry and algebra in secondary schools ?—Between four and five hours. 18. And the number of marks given to geometry? —Four hundred. 19. Do you know that if it is found that at least two hours a week are required to teach book-keeping and correspondence and long tots, which are included in the subject, that 200 would be corresponding marks; and would two hours be sufficient time to teach history in the secondary schools?—l cannot give you an answer directly, because 1 do not agree with your basis : I do not think that a proper basis to give marks upon. 20. If that basis were granted, would the proper marks for history be 200?— Yes. 21. Do you know of any better basis for marking subjects in an examination on the work of secondary schools than the amount of time it takes to teach those subjects properly ? —I have not gone into the question at all. It appears to me that if 400 marks are being given to Maori, then certainly more than 200 should be given to such an important subject as history. I expect Maori is taken only by those people who intend being Maori interpreters or working in the Maori law-courts, or something like that. Maori would be important for them, but hardly as equally important as history to others. Under present conditions a man cannot be a good citizen unless he has a good working knowledge of history, unless he understands those principles that were in operation to build up our present-day institutions. I do not recognize the time basis is the best basis. I cannot suggest any other, as I have not gone into the question at all. I would not be a scrap surprised to know that a considerable amount of attention is being given to the grouping of the two sections of the D certificate. As regards making them equal in the number of subjects, and putting half in one section and half in another, or putting into the first section the subjects that the great majority of candidates actually do get through in the first section, I think the latter procedure would be more practicable and more equal, it would be quite possible, where there were candidates going in for Matriculation and taking Latin, which Latin w-as being taught by one or more teachers, for other candidates who were not going in for Matriculation to take the commercial course conducted by other teachers, thus making the commercial course alternative with Latin. Nature-study, as I said previously, should be a method rather than a subject. It would be logically sound to connect the subject-matter with the child's environment, which in an agricultural district would certainly- be agriculture. It would be quite sound in an agricultural district to make the agricultural instruction in a district high school an extension of the nature-study in the standards. One should grow naturally from the other. There should not be that great break between the primary school and secondary school. 22. To the Chairman.] I certainly think that candidates for Matriculation should have the option of taking agriculture. I have personally had experience of other educational districts having a closed door to candidates. Inspectors and members of Education Boards of various districts have told me personally that if 1 wished to get into their districts I could not hope to get a position in the same grade as I am at present, let alone a higher one; but they said if I liked to sacrifice about £80 or so then I would have no difficulty at all, or not so much difficulty in getting into the district. But why should a man be asked to sacrifice salary, in some cases more than £2 a week, merely to get that promotion which he has a right to expect? And we teachers in the small districts are the ones who are being affected by this most unjust procedure. We are looking with longing eyes towards this Commission. We hope that one of the strongest results will be the breaking-down of this provincialism. It is a fact that in our district the majority of those in charge of single-handed schools are both untrained and uncertificated. Positions become vacant, and in most cases the sole applicants for the position are the girls in the immediate vicinity; some of the girls have no training at all—they have just passed the Sixth Standard. One or two, perhaps, have been to a district high school, and have passed the Junior Civil Service. Then, in a short time these girls, being eligible girls, get married, and their pupils step in and take their places, so you see there is a gradual decadence there —there is no progress at all. The Inspector we have is doing wonderfully good work with these teacheps. He is spending a vast amount of time with them. He is organizing work, and is assisting them by correspondence, and so on; but no matter how excellently he may work, or how enthusiastic he may be, he has this difficulty to fight against the whole time. The difficulty is increasing rather than decreasing. I think it would be wise to get a Council of Education to control and advise the Minister on all matters of policy in regard to the interpretation of regulations and so forth, for the sake of securing uniformity. It would certainly make for efficiency in every way. There is a great break between the primary and secondary school, and I am quite certain w-ere a Council of Education in existence the advice of the Council would be most invaluable and would in every respect make for the efficiency of the service. 23. To Mr. Pirani.] Mr. Wake, who came from our district to the North Canterbury District, did not have to accept a reduction in salary when he came here, but he told me some time
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ago that lie had been trying for years to get away. As far as I know- and my memory takes me back for sixteen years —Mr. Wake is the only teacher in Westland and Grey who got away without accepting a reduction. I could name several men in Hawke's Bay and in Wellington Districts at the present time who, in order to get from the Coast, had to accept a reduction. One man dropped £150 to get off the Coast —a, most efficient teacher —he has since made it up; another man had to drop £90 to get away, and 1 know of hundreds of teachers who have dropped £60 to get away. Mr. Wake is the only man 1 know of who did not have to accept a reduction. The subsequent, career of all these men has proved conclusively that they have been excellent men, because the}' have risen to higher positions later on. if there had been a Dominion system of promotion I do not know if they would have appointed the men who got the positions and who belonged to the district, but I am .satisfied that those men who have had to accept a reduction to get off the Coast have been infinitely better than the men who have been placed above them. 24. To the Chairman.] Mr. Wake was headmaster of the school 1 at present have, and ho succeeded to the East Christchurch School. It would not surprise me to know that his possession of other qualifications than teaching influenced the decision of the Committee that appointed him —that his activities outside were a factor in considering his position. 25. To Mr. Davidson.} Mr. Wake was originally a Canterbury man. The fact that the Board of Education at Auckland appointed an outsider as principal of the Technical College, and that the Southland Board did the same in connection with the Southland Girls' High School, does not affect the case in the slightest. A number of these high schools have a perfect fad for going outside New Zealand for teachers. The Auckland educational authorities have the reputation of thinking there is no one in New Zealand good enough, and they invariably send Home for them. Quite a number of positions up there have gone that way. 26. To Mr. Pirani.] With regard to the relative abilities of the teachers on the West Coast with those in other districts, 1 am quite satisfied that were any Inspector from any other district to go down and inspect some of the work in the schools that he would find the work there is not one whit below the work of the best schools in New Zealand ; and were you to take the results that obtain in the District High School in Hokitika and compare those results in the public examinations with the pupils from other district high schools, i do not think you would find that the\- are materially behind any of the other schools in the same class. 27. I notice that you get a greater proportion of proficiency certificates than any other school in New Zealand: do you think that may be the fault of the Inspector? He may not have such a, high standard as in other districts? —As 1 explained to you, the Inspector has spent a vast amount of time assisting these teachers a great deal, but I am quite certain that it would be unjust to him and unfair to the whole district to suggest that his standard is lower than any other standard in New Zealand. If the results are good down there, and if they compare favourably with other parts of New Zealand, it is owing to the work the Inspector himself is doing. The} would take outside teachers over on the Coast, could the} get them, but it is very rarely that -A high position becomes vacant. You see, outsiders will not apply for- any positions excepting the very highest. Whenever they have a vacancy in a district high school, as they have had in Greymouth on several occasions, they practically have to go round taking anybody that will offer. People will not go to the Coast, because they know that once they get there the chances are they will get no promotion for ten or twelve years. Thomas R. Cresswell examined on oath. (No. 88.) I. To the Chairman.] I am at present Principal of the Rangiora High School and Director of the Technical School there. I have been employed for thirteen years in the High School, and was previously with the Wanganui Technical School and Boys' High School. I have been a teacher altogether for seventeen years. I am M.A. (New Zealand University), and my certificate is Al. The Board of Governors desires to express its appreciation of the uniform courtesy and consideration of the Education Department. The returns called for by the Department have, during the last five years, increased to a very marked extent in number and complexity, especially, it seems, in connection with technical education, and my Board would like, to see them considerably simplified, inspection of secondary schools is now conducted on much better lines than those adopted a few years ago; the inspection reports are a real help to both governing bod} and teaching staff. The method of awarding senior free places on the joint recommendation of Principal and Inspector appears to lie the best possible one. In order to secure the best return for expenditure, my Board would like to see the present system of awarding scholarships of a considerable monetary value discontinued, and at least an equal amount expended in the partpayment of the board of pupils who, owing to the remoteness of their residences from the nearest secondary school, are unable to travel and and fro each day. It is admitted that such payments would have to be carefully safeguarded, and it is suggested that they might take the form of subsidies to approved school boardinghouses, which would offer accommodation at a stipulated tariff. The scale of payments to secondary schools is a sliding- one, based on the net annual income from endowments. The intention is that schools having large endowments shall get less in the way of Government capitation than poorer schools. Yet we find many well-endowed schools getting capitation at the maximum rate. How is this done? Simply by taking advantage of the loophole afforded by the word " net " in fhe phrase " net annual income." To explain more clearly the point 1 am trying to make, I take the case of two imaginary schools : School A has no endowments, school B lias £600 a year. Each school has 100 pupils, ninety of whom hold Government free places, and the other ten are paying pupils who are not now taken into account. if neither school spent any money on upkeep of buildings, A would get from the Government £12 10s. per head on ninety pupils = £1,125; B would get £7 10s. per head = £675, to which add £600 (endowment) = £600: total, £1,275. And school B, in spite of its £600 endowment,
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is only £150 better off than A. So far, good. But, unfortunately, this is not what usually occurs. It will be evident, indeed, that each school must spend at least £100 a year on the •tipkeep of building's. A can get no more capitation, having already the maximum; it therefore pays the whole of this £100 out of its own funds, leaving £1,125 — £100 = £1,025. B, on the other hand, immediately gets increased capitation to the extent of 10s. per head = £45, and the 'Government lias practically subsidised its expenditure on buildings at the rate of pound for pound. B may even decide to spend the whole of its revenue from endowments upon buildings. If it does so, its capitation jumps to the maximum, and it now receives from the Government exactly as much as school A, and has its £600 besides to spend in building, &c. Having got all the buildings it requires, two courses are open to the governing body of the wealthier school : either to cease building operations, or to enter upon new and elaborate schemes of building. If it chooses the former, its income drops to the original £675 + £600 = £1,275. But if it elects to continue spending all its endowments on building it gets £1,125 + £600 = £1,725. In other words, every £600 of buildings costs the local body only £150, the Government automatically subsidising every £1 spent with £!\ of public money. What local body could resist such a tempting offer? The pity of it is that meantime the poorer school has either to find every penny it spends on buildings or else to apply to the Government for a special grant, only to be informed, in the majority of cases, that the vote for buildings is already exhausted. I make bold to say that the Education Department is at present indirectly paying some thousands of pounds per annum towards the erection of buildings which would immediately be found to be not necessary, if the Board erecting them had to find a more substantial part of their cost. No two secondary schools in New Zealand are in exactly the same position as regards finance, and it would seem impossible to frame a single set of regulations that would not present some grave anomalies. I may, however, be allowed respectfully to offer the suggestion that a calculation of capitation on the gross, not net, annual income would do away with the striking anomaly already alluded to. With further reference to the finance of secondary schools, I may say that two classes of schools are necessarily, in proportion to size, more extensive to manage than others : they are (1) smaller schools, (2) mixed schools. It seems evident that no scheme of capitation can be absolutely fair which does not give a slight preference to such schools. In this connection may I suggest that payments to governing bodies of secondary schools should consist partly of capitation as at present, and partly of a small lump sum, each Board getting the same amount irrespective of the size of the school. This principle is already, T believe, adopted in connection with Education Boards. District High Schools : Several district high schools in North Canterbury have, during the last few years, been closed on account of poor attendance. It is now proposed to reopen some of these. This step, progressive at first sight, is really retrograde. Instead of multiplying institutions which from their very nature can at best only be small, struggling, and moderately efficient, would it not be better to encourage secondary schools centrally placed in country districts? It has been repeatedly suggested that numbers of small primary schools should be closed and the children conveyed to suitable centres. The same principle applies in this case. It is cheaper and in other respects more satisfactory to take the children to the school than to bring the school to the children. Course of instruction in secondary schools : Formal grammar has of late been paid less attention to in the primary schools, and this fact makes it more difficult to progress satisfactorily in the study of a foreign language. Shorthand and typewriting have a very low educational value, and are taken in secondary schools only in deference to a mistaken public demand. Agriculture, on the other hand, may be made an extremely valuable study; the only present drawback being, strange to say, the apathetic attitude of the great majority of farmers. As evidence of what has been done in one year at the Rangiora High School, I hand in a report of last season's experimental work ; the report is extracted from the Tiinarii Herald. The matter was also judged worthy of publication in the Weekly Press and Canterbury Times, and has, by special request, been forwarded to the Otar/o Witness. [Report handed in.] 2. To Mr. Wells.] T would suggest that pupils be boarded in connection with the school, provided the tariff of the boardinghouse were submitted to the Government. I may say that, taking our own school, for instance, we have a small boardinghouse, and we derive absolutely no profit from it. We board children at the minimum possible cost. I may say that boys who are able to get home for the week-end arc boarded at our school boardinghouse for 10s. a week. T think that a boardinghouse like that is w"ell worthy of subsidy, but T should not advocate the subsidizing of expensive boardinghouses. We put in a married couple, and they manage the whole thing at their own risk. I think a member of the staff should be in charge of the boarding establishment. T have the supervision of our boardinghouse, but I draw no fees; it does not affect me monetarily at all. With regard to the centralization of district high schools, I think that could certainly be done in our own district; in fact, the two high schools that were originally established fairly close to Rangiora have both been shut up and the children are coming to Rangiora, which is very well situated in regard to trains. In my opinion there should be no need to reopen any others. Tdo not know of any other district high schools that might be closed to advantage. Wo have not done anything in the way of continuation classes in connection with our school. T certainly think they ore advisable, and I have an idea that the better public opinion, the bulk of public opinion, would support the attendance at continuation classes being made compulsory ."?. To Mr. Davidson .] I think the efficiency of the work done in the primary school to-day, as compared with the work ten years ago, is greater, but it is spread over more groxind. I think, in other words, that the syllabus of the primary school is somewhat overcrowded. I should delete singing for one subject. T do not know any syllabus or course of study in any country where singing does not form one of the subjects in the primary schools. I have not studied the question from any standpoint except the local one. Singing certainly forms a very pleasing
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break in the work, of other subjects to those children who have musical tastes and a musical ear If it were taken in that way, not with a fixed period on the time-table, but taken occasionally during the day, particularly in the lower classes, I think it might be given a place on the syllabus. To those who are musically inclined it might be a diversion, to the others it appears to me it would be a' hardship, and that they would be better in the playground for five minutes. My own personal opinion is that several of the technical subjects taken in the primary schools are so-much time wasted. I would postpone the taking of cookery, for instance, until the pupils reach the secondary or technical schools. I think woodwork may be made a very useful subject. The only objection I have from the standpoint of the primary-school teacher is that a subject which boys alone take breaks up the syllabus—that is, the girls have to have something to do at the same time. If we decided to take woodwork, I would suggest cookery as a subject for the girls to take at the same time. Woodwork is taken in the primary schools in North Canterbury, and, as far as my experience goes, cookery is taken by fhe girls. I would like to see both woodwork and cookery taken out of the primary-school subjects and left to the secondary schools. Technical-education system does not work very satisfactorily in country places. The classes are small, and it is very difficult, indeed to make both ends meet with the capitation that is given. This is the first year we have tried it in Rangiora, I understand it works well in other places— in Palmerston North, for example, and also, I think, in Dannevirke. In fact, I went to Palmerston North to look round before starting in Rangiora. 4. To Mr. Kirk.] I advocate greater attention and more time being given in our primaryschools to what are commonly known as the three Rs. I disapprove of the teaching of shorthand and typewriting in the secondary school as subjects of educational value. I think shorthand is a subject that children cannot find sufficient time to get proficient in. Typewriting is a subject that can be learnt practically in three or four weeks, I think. Ido not write shorthand myself. 5. To Mr. Hogben.} I am not aware that a good many correspondence clerks have learnt their shorthand in secondary or technical schools. With regard to the question of capitation, what I complain of is really that a school that has a large amount of endowment, by spending a certain amount on buildings can secure a higher rate of capitation. That case would be met by a condition that the cost of no building should be deducted that was not an approved building. That is the point I would like to make : that at present wealthy Boards who erect their buildings out of their endowments have not first of all to get the approval of the Government to the buildings they put up, and therefore they can. lay out for themselves a very elaborate scheme of buildings well knowing that the Government in the end will pay three-fourths of the cost, under certain conditions. I am taking two particular cases. If they were all free pupils the Government would pay nine-tenths of the cost of the buildings, without having any say in the buildings that were to be erected. That is exactly the point I want to make, if is quite true that the Government has a say in regard to buildings if a straight-out grant is asked from the Government. But they are giving nine-tenths of it without having any say at all. The poorer school has to go for a special grant to the Government, and to get the approbation of the Government before the plans are passed, while the wealthier school can get nine-tenths of the cost of the building without the Government having a say in the erection of the buildings at all. My suggestion re paying a small fixed sum was intended to cover the difference between the average cost of a large school and that of a small school. It is evident that a small school is more expensive to work than a large school, and if a sum were given to all schools irrespective of the size of the school it would help the small school. 6. Have you formed any idea of the size of a secondary- school at which the cost begins to approach closely to the average?—l should say, a school about 200. Of course, you have no mixed schools of that size, but there is no doubt that a mixed school is more expensive to work than a school in which there are only boys or girls. 7. You go up to 200 in the case of the mixed schools?— Yes. 8. And the minimum number for which such a school could be established would be 60 : then, I take it, the fixed sum would be the difference in cost of 140? —Yes. That is the difference between the minimum and maximum. I would find the difference in cost between those two, and 1 would give this fixed sum, and then you would be giving the schools of sixty the right amount. 9. Would you not be giving the schools of 150 too much? —Well, but my idea was to slightly reduce the rate of capitation throughout. 10. To the Chairman.] In my opinion the vocational course should begin in the secondaryschool or the technical school. On the whole, the children who come up from the primary schools are sufficiently well grounded to enable the secondary schools to begin with them; but I would slightly simplify the primary course and pay a little more attention to formal grammer and arithmetic. John Webster McGregor examined on oath. (No. 89.) I. To the Chairman.] I am President of the North Canterbury Educational Institute, and headmaster of the Richmond School, where I have been nearly four years. Prior to that I was headmaster at Ashburton, and headmaster of the Lyttelton West School. I have been engaged in teaching for thirty-three years. My educational rank is 81. The North Canterbury Branch of the Educational Institute decided to be represented by myself, Miss Chaplin, Mr. Just, Mr. Evans, and Mr. Alley. I have been asked to deal particularly with the question of staffs and salaries and scholarships. Miss Chaplin will speak as representing the women teachers, Mr. Just on school hygiene, Mr. Evans on the syllabus, and Mr. Alley on the question of Boards of Education and School Committees and centralization. You will perhaps notice that there is no assistant, except Miss Chaplin, representing the Institute. I might explain that the Institute decided that there should be no sectional representation. There is no question dealing particularly with the assistants, who are quite satisfied with the headmasters appointed to represent them.
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This is the statement I have prepared, dealing with staffs, salaries, and scholarships : The true aim of education, the harmonious development of all the child's powers so as to promote the jgrowth of a complete character, demands on the part of the teacher much individual attention. He cannot efficiently educate children in the mass :he must individualize. To that end the class should be small. However large a class may be, the methods of handling it must always be based on the requirements of the individual pupil. The unit in education is not the school or the class, but the single pupil. Leading educationists in England think classes should not exceed forty pupils. Professor Findlay, Professor of Education in the University of Manchester, says, "We shall take it for granted that thirty is a fair average for the size of classes. In many schools the number allotted to one teacher are larger, in many others the number falls below. But we may take it as a common opinion that a teacher of experience will usually be willing to handle a class of thirty pupils, if the thirty are fairly equal in attainments." In cases such as our primary schools present where more than forty children are in the charge of a single teacher, the best results cannot be fairly demanded. No pupil can, for example, be trained properly in the arts of speech during three minutes of each day apart from recitation in chorus. Such hindrances to sound method cannot be removed by the teacher —the authorities who employ him are responsible; and it is gratifying to observe how, year by year, in all countries, the evils of understaffing are being acknowledged. When the classes are so large as to prevent the possibility of individual attention, special 'devices have to be employed which run counter to many of the precepts of true education. The Education Amendment Act of 1908 did much to improve the staffing of primary schools. Already the Education Department has complied with the requirements of the Second Schedule of the Act as far as Grade 6. But it is in the large city and suburban schools where the staffing is quite inadequate. In thost schools the classes range from sixty to over e'ghty children in charge of one certificated teacher. It is true that often a pupilteacher is provided, but he can give little assistance in the teaching of such subjects as English composition, history, arithmetic, geography, and nature-study where the highly trained skilled teacher is required. • He can help in the correction of written work, and in the supervision of drawing and manual work. In most cases he leaves at the end of two years. Under the old regulations, when a pupil-teacher had to remain four years, in his last year he often did the work of an assistant. Under the present conditions two , pupil-teachers in their second year are not equivalent to an assistant. A Grade 8c school is a particularly difficult one to organize satisfactorily. To work the school efficiently the head teacher must undertake the teaching of a large standard class, and supervise a fairly large school as well. In Grade 9 schools, too, at present the staffing is particularly weak. The Schedule provides in Subgrade 9e for thirteen adult teachers when pupil-teachers go. At present eight certificated teachers are responsible for the education of a roll number of over 600 pupils, pupil-teachers of two years' service being of little practical use. For the more efficient working of the schools my Institute strongly urges the substitution of assistants for pupil-teachers on the staff. The Education Act provides for the staffing and payment of teachers on a basis of average attendance. It is a most unfair provision, as the whole of the children on the school roll have to be taught, and the teacher is responsible for their education and promotion. The Education Department, by regulations, has wisely made several concessions with the object of lessening the unfair effects of the principle in its operation. Among others it provides that when the average attendance is seriously affected by an epidemic the average of the corresponding quarter of the previous year may be substituted. Another provides that when the attendance of any half-day drops below half of the roll number for the time being, the attendances on such half-days are not to be reckoned in computing the average attendance. In city and suburban schools it is quite exceptional for the attendance to be below half the roll number, but wet days often reduce it to between 60 or 70 per cent, of the roll number, and a week of such daj's seriously affects the average attendance of a school and consequently its status. Indeed, an attendance as low as 75 per cent, of the roll number is due to some abnormal condition or circumstance. I therefore think that if the attendance falls below two-thirds of the roll number it should be considered an " excepted " half-day, and not reckoned in computing the average attendance. Regulation VIII, " Staffs and Salaries," clause (b), provides for substitution if the average of a whole quarter is less than two-thirds the average weekly roll. If an average attendance of less than two-thirds of the roll number for a whole quarter is considered abnormal, and need not be reckoned in getting the average for the year, then why should not the attendance of single half-days be omitted when they are correspondingly low? With regard to the shortage in the supply of teachers, the Institute considers it is directly traceable to the unsatisfactory remuneration received compared with that paid in other walks of life, where neither the training is so exacting nor the conditions of service so disadvantageous. The unstable basis of the payment of salaries is another factor, and the third is the uncertainty of promotion. It is this last factor that meets the country teacher particularly, in getting into the higher-grade schools, when the final choice for a position rests with the School Committee, which in most cases prefers the " town " teacher on the recommended list in preference to one serving in a country school. The service should be made more attractive by increasing the salaries of the lower grades especially, by providing a more liberal training-allowance for pupilteachers and probationers, and by making promotion more assured. It is our experience that we are not getting the best material that passes through our schools for pupil-teachers, and that youths after a year or two of apprenticeship pass into other professions. At present a pupilteacher who has passed his Junior Civil Service Examination receives £35, and £15 extra if obliged to live away from home. His books cost him a good deal, and he has to study at night. During his fifth year in the s'ervice —that is, when at the training college—he receives £30, or if away from home £30 extra —£60 in all—a sum quite insufficient to board and clothe him and pay" his other expenses. It means that youths of twenty and twenty-one years of age are
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dependent on their parents to some extent till their training course is finished. A youth entering the Post and Telegraph Department as a cadet, having passed the Junior Civil Service Examination, receives £50 a year, and if away from home £26 extra for board-allowance, making £76 a year; He has no books to buy and no night study. A pupil-teacher of same rank gets £50. The postal cadet receives four increments of £15 a year, and at end of his fourth year gets £110 : the pupil-teacher in training gets £60. Probationers were less liberally treated, receiving £20 and £25. In other branches of the Civil Service cadets on entering are paid almost as liberally as in the Post and Telegraph Department. Although the comparison between the two services becomes more favourable to the teacher after the apprenticeship and training period are over, yet the much lower remuneration in the first few years, and the prospect of long service in a rural school, detracts from the popularity of the profession for youths particularly, and adversely determines many from entering the profession. Again, the " prizes " of the profession are comparatively few. At the 2,096 schools in the Dominion only twenty-eight command the highest salary. The salaries paid to Inspectors compare unfavourably with those paid to, say, the highest-salaried officers in the Postal and Telegraph Department, in which service First Grade officers receive £550 to £600 per annum, and in Second Grade of the First Class, which includes Inspectors and Chief Postmasters, £500 to £525 per annum is paid. Few School Inspectors receive £500 and over, and a good many receive less than that sum. Surely, when the qualifications necessary and the responsibility of the work are considered our primary-school Inspectors should at least receive an emolument equal to that received by the First Grade Postal Inspectors. With reference to Junior National and Education Board Scholarships, this Institute is quite in agreement with the opinion expressed before the Commission by other institutes—viz., that they are unnecessary and should be abolished, in view of the fact that the average child can enter a secondary school free on gaining a Standard VI proficiency certificate. The bestowal of scholarships tends to lead to overstrain, especially on the part of girls, and the scholarship gained is generally the result of extra work done before or after school hours. The amount thus saved could be spent in defraying the cost of boarding children who have gained free places in secondary schools and have to live from home to attend one. 2. To Mr. Kirk.] As to my the salaries paid to Inspectors of Schools and high officials in other branches —say, an Inspector in the Railway Department—it would be a fair thing for any one making a comparison to inquire as to the hours worked. A School Inspector does not necessarily stop work because the school is closed for holidays. I presume a Railway Inspector has his holidays too 1 think it is fair to compare the salary paid to a Railway Inspector with that paid to an Inspector of Schools because the latter requires very .much higher qualifications in the way of academic attainment. He has to spend a great deal in the early part of his life in gaining those attainments, 3. To Mr. Wells.] I think it would be an improvement if, as a basis for staffing, we took the highest attendance at the school each week and took the average of those attendances over the quarter. I would abolish scholarships altogether. I would allow country pupils who gained certificates of proficiency to attend secondary schools, and, with the money saved, pay for their board. I would make no allowance to cover the cost of books for them. I think the average parent would be quite willing to provide books. I know it comes hard on poor parents. If there was a saving made on the scholarships I would perhaps expend it by giving it to children whose parents were not able to buy books. This would make a distinction, and that would be awkward. I would not encourage the giving of free books. If any one made application I would give them, but I would not make a point of giving free books. As to coaching after hours for scholarships, I think that with most children who gain scholarships in this district it is the result of work over and above the school work. We have no agreement here among ourselves that no after-hours work should be done. I think there should be such an agreement. 4. To Mr. Davidson.] WTiere an epidemic visits a district, I think the quarter in which the epidemic attacks the schools should be excluded in computing the average attendance for the year. It would increase the number of prizes in the profession if Grade 10 were made to include all schools having an average attendance of over 500. 5. Do you know of any scale of staffing in any part of the Empire that is more liberal than ours ? —No, I have no knowledge. 6. To Mr. Hogben.] I am aware that in computing average attendance the December quarter can be substituted, instead of the corresponding quarter, for the quarter in which the epidemic occurs; whichever is the greater can be substituted. I can imagine that the December quarter, apart from epidemics, has for the last two or three years been the highest quarter, generally speaking, in the Dominion. I am aware that the epidemic must affect 10 per cent, or more of the children of school age. The regulation is really more liberal than the 1.0 per cent., to the extent that the time of infection is less than the quarter. When the average attendance at a school declines, I thought it took two years on an average to bring the school down in grade, not three years. The teacher's salary is secured for two years after the grade of the school has fallen. Five years is a fair time to allow a man to consider his position, but the difficulty is after the five years to get a move. He need not wait for the end of the five years. As to taking the roll number as a basis for staffing and salary, I do not think the roll number would be steadier than average attendance. If average attendance is a steadier measure than the roll, it would be better to take the former as a basis. If average attendance is steadier, anything between the two —any number got by compounding the two —must be less steady than average attendance. I plead for the roll number as a basis because we are responsible for all the children on the roll. It is simply another way of saying that the schools ought to be more liberally staffed. 7. To the Chairman.] We have a school library at Richmond. It would be to the advantage of education generally if the Government assisted libraries by adding standard literature from time to time
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Miss Emily Chaplis examined on oath. (No. 90.) 1. To the Chairman.} I am second assistant at the East Christchurch School. I have been -.-engaged in teaching under the North Canterbury Education Board for twenty-eight years. My education qualification is 81. I am a Bachelor of Arts of the New Zealand University. 1 have prepared the following statement : First, I desire to refer to the question of the training of the tipper girls in our primary schools. A very large proportion of these girls do not, unfortunately, take advantage of the benefits of technical or secondary education. The future- lives of all of them will, however, be more or less bound up with the home, and it is therefore necessary that, as far as possible, the foundation of a domestic career should be laid in the primary school. To some extent this is done by the needlework, cookery, and laundry lessons. But I think more than this might be done. During the last two years of the primary course a series of lessons on hygiene, the care of the home, and the care of children might be given by the teacher without encroaching on the time that should be devoted to essential subjects. A girl has a right to as good a literary education as a boy, and none of the subjects of first importance could be dispensed with; but the annual meeting of the New Zealand Education Institute has voted more than once in favour of striking out geometrical drawing for girls; some of the mathematical geography, too, might be omitted, and the arithmetic simplified. With these modifications time could be found for the lessons on hygiene without tampering with any essential subjects. Those girls who afterwards continued their studies at a technical school and took up a domestic-science course there would be able to go more fully into the practical application of the lessons learned in the primary school. Those who left school after passing Standard VI would derive much benefit from the lessons received. This primary course in the elements of domestic science should count in the examination for proficiency certificates in the case of girls. Lunch-room and teachers' room :No provision is made even in the largest primary schools for a room in which scholars might have their lunch, particularly on wet days. Nor is there, with few exceptions, a room for teachers. In many cases lunch has to be eaten in a room w-hich is foul, for children have been taught in it all the morning. In factories provision must be made that employees may not need to lunch in a workroom. Is it not equally important that teachers may have a suitable room? In the larger schols it is especially necessary. My object in calling attention to this is that, if possible, the necessary provision might be made in future school buildings, at least in the larger centres. Another matter of great importance to the efficiency- of our schools is the status of women teachers. In some districts particularly there is a reluctance to admit the capability- of women to fill any but the lower positions. For some years past the order paper at the annual meeting of the New Zealand Education Institute has each year contained one or more remits dealing with this question. This is a proof that considerable dissatisfaction exists. The Auckland and Otago Education Boards have practically prohibited their women teachers from ranking higher than third assistant in the largest schools. In consequence of this these deserving workers are extremely discouraged, for not only do they receive lower salaries than their ability and experience should entitle them, to, but they suffer for the rest of their lives by receiving a correspondingly reduced superannuation on retirement. The women who are thus affected are those who have spent the best years of their lives in teaching. They are among the most experienced teachers in the district. Those who are coming on behind feel that the service offers but little at the end of a strenuous career. This feeling of discontent must seriously affect the efficiency of the work Other Boards of this country —our own North Canterbury Board included —have put a fairer estimate on the value of am experienced woman teacher's work than the Boards of Auckland and Otago, for with them in the largest schools a woman may be second assistant. Notwithstanding this, our men have not complained of hardship, and a spirit of harmony prevails. The difficulty experienced in getting candidates for the teaching profession may be measured by the number of uncertificated teachers a Board has to employ. Taking the returns of the four largest districts for 1910 (I was unable to get those for 1911), I found the following somewhat significant figures: Auckland (257 uncertificated out of 896 adult teachers), 29 per cent, uncertificated; Otago (99 out of 487), 20 per cent, uncertificated; Wellington (73 out of 391), 19 per cent, uncertificated; North Canterbury (59 out of 432), 14 per cent, uncertificated. Some of these teachers had partially qualified, and some were holders of licenses, but one section had no examination status whatever. Of these Auckland provided 193 — i.e., 22 per cent, of its total adult teachers; Otago, 10 per cent, of its total adult teachers; Wellington, 9 per cent, of its total adult teachers; North Canterbury, 7 per cent, of its total adult teachers. It will be admitted that, in the best interests of the children's education, teachers with better qualifications must, if possible, be attracted to the service. We want the best, physically, morally, and intellectually. The work will always be arduous. Anything, therefore, which causes vexation and engenders a sense of injustice ought if possible to be removed. It is not generally denied that women do excellent work in infant departments; but in spite of occasional statements that have been made to the contrary, it is easily proved that many of the experienced women handle successfully the largest classes—boys, girls, and mixed—from Standard II to Standard VI —in a way that shows both their teaching-capacity and their disciplinary power to be of the highest order. If it were necessary I could quote numbers of Inspectors' reports which would put that fact beyond question. A few I will mention, each on the work of a different teacher : («.) Report on a mixed class (boys and girls) of eighty in Standard V : " Miss A again demonstrates her great ability in dealing most successfully with a class of large numbers. The pupils show a close acquaintance with the programme submitted, and furnish abundant evidence of well-directed instruction." (b.) Mixed class of seventy-eight: "Standard V has been taught faithfully and well. Its members are accustomed to think, and have acquired very creditable powers of expression. Reading and comprehension, spelling, writing, composition, geography, drawing, history, and civics are subjects of special merit." (c.) Over eighty girls: "This is a strong
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class, reaching a high level in all subjects. Both written and oral exercises showed a close acquaintance with the matter contained in the programmes covered. The fine spirit of work pervading the whole class, together with the widespread responses received, give a pleasing impression of the methods employed. Among the distinctly strong group of subjects composition stands out as a specially fine performance." (d.) About eighty: "Standard V render a very gQjpd account of themselves. All subjects attained a level giving every evidence of faithful teaching with successful results." (c.) Standard VI (sixty-five, mixed): "In most of the work tested the pupils were well advanced, reading, spelling, writing, geography, and drawing being strongfeatures. A fine spirit of work appeared throughout." (/.) (Standard 111 (110, mixed): "This large class has been taught with ability and success." (y.) Standard VI (about fifty girls) : " Standard VI is a very promising class, under highly efficient control. The treatment of nature-study has been notably instructive and intelligent, and in all subjects of the English group the pupils make a very commendable appearance." These are just a few typical reports from different teachers, chosen at random from among many others equally good. There can really be no question as to women's ability to do the most difficult school-work. There is in her nature much that makes her specially adapted to deal with child-life, and in the largest schools women of experience and proved ability should find, both in infants' departments and in the upper standards, where girls need special care, positions that are fitly remunerated. 1 do not advocate preferential treatment for women, but when qualifications and experience entitle them to senior positions their sex should be no bar. It is true that many teachers marry and leave the service, but those who have given practically their lives to the cause of education ought not to suffer on that account. Most of the smallest schools are taught by women, but in the majority of cases, when the school reaches Grade 4, the woman, who frequently by her conscientious and successful work has made her school attractive, and so increased its roll number, lias to be disrated to make room for a master. If this were done strictly with regard to the efficiency of the school nothing could be said against it, but when the woman has proved herself competent she should not have to suffer in this way. A typical case of this kind came before the last annual meeting , of the New Zealand Education. Institute, and it was agreed that this was an injustice that should be remedied. From the education returns to the end of 1910 Otago shows up vei , }' badly in this connection. Not only is a higher position than that of third assistant refused to women in the largest city schools, but while 101 women (20 per cent, of its total adult teachers) were employed in the difficult work of sole-charge schools, not one woman was allowed to be head teacher of a school. That is to say, she was capable of coping with the difficult work of a single-handed school, but when that school got into Grade 4, where an additional teacher comes in, and the work becomes easier, she must, as a matter of course, make way for a master and take a subordinate position. This is done to a considerable extent in other districts, and very few women are allowed to be heads of schools. In these cases no arbitrary rule, such as appears to be in force in Otago, should be laid down. Where a woman has proved well qualified to do the work of the smallest schools and has shown conspicuous ability, she should be given some chance of showing her ability in the Grade 4 schools; otherwise some of the best talent in the service is discouraged, and teaching will become increasingly unpopular. In thus drawing attention specially to women's status 1 in no way depreciate the work of men teachers. In this district, when a question of injustice to a woman teacher has been brought up, they have been as ready to resent the unfairness as if it had been meted out to one of their own number. In no profession does so much depend on the character of the men and women engaged in its work as in the teaching profession, and everj' possible inducement should be given, in the best interests of the children, to attract to it young people of the best type. 2. To Mr. I'irani.] I notice from statistics that in 1910 there were only three women teachers in North Canterbury who had charge of schools above Grade 3, and in 1911 there were four. 1 think the woman who has the highest position on the staff in any of the largest schools should certainly not rank lower than second assistant. 3. To cope with the present system of appointing men to the highest positions, do you not think there ought to be one position open to women only —that of infant mistress —and that it should carry with it a salary at least equivalent to that of the second assistant —that is, there would be two second assistants in the school, one of whom must be a woman?—l agree with you partly, but at the same time in the large cities there is a class of teacher, apart from the infant mistress, who deserves consideration as well. I would not lay down a hard-and-fast rule rule that the infant mistress should be the best-qualified and the best-paid woman in the school. 4. To Mr. Kirk.'] With regard to differentiating between the salaries of men and women : men generally have families to support, but there are many women, particularly experienced workers, who have others dependent on them—l know of cases of whole families. If there were equal pay for equal work and a male teacher was getting £i a week and a female teacher £6 he might possibly feel a sense of injustice, but I know of instances where the reverse is the case : a man who has no family to support and whose parents and belongings are in first-rate circumstances is receiving a very high salary, while in the same school there is a poor woman junior teacher who has people depending upon her. I think its cuts both ways. 5. To Mr. Poland.] As far as I know there is no difference made in the salaries paid to married and unmarried men in the profession. 'Hie economic question does not come in in the case of an unmarried man. 0. To Mr. Wells.] I could not tell you the proportion of lady teachers who give up before they reach retiring-age : probably it is over 80 per cent. The great majority of lady teachers marry. As to lady teachers entering the profession only as a stop-gap until they marry, I think that a good many girls who take up teaching go into it quite conscientiously and whole-heartedly, and without any reference to the future. They do not know what lies before them. If four'lady teachers out of five give up before they reach the retiring-age, that should not affect the remaining
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ones, who really give their lives to the teaching. I think there should be good salaries both for men and women. Comparing the teaching profession with other walks of life, and bearing in mind the training that is necessary, I do not think the present salaries are sufficient. 1 should ""say that i c girls offer themselves for the teaching profession in this district than boys. 1 think teaching appeals naturally more to a girl than to a boy. As to whether it is a question of the -work appealing to them or a question of the callings that are open, I think it is a little of both. I hardly think the teaching profession offers as good remuneration to a girl as she can hope to get anywhere. I was talking to a gentleman the other day, and he said he had in his office a girl of twenty who was earning £2 a week at typing. That kind of work cannot be compared with teaching in strain on the whole system, or in importance. The maximum salary for a lady teacher in this district is £240, setting on one side two head teachers at separate infant schools. A gentleman in business tells me that a first-class head dressmaker can command £10 a week; the heads of departments in the big drapery establishments —women —£5 to £6 a week; and good assistants from £2 to £3. I was also told from another source that in drapery establishments it is quite a common thing for women to get £4 10s., and that a head dressmaker or milliner gets £7, £8, and £9 a week. These figures refer to the largest drapery establishments. These salaries are quite beyond women teachers. In the teaching profession there are certainly more holidays, but I do not think we could get through our work without them. We also have the superannuation scheme, but we shall pay for our own superannuation ourselves in time to come. One of the regulations provides that one assistant out of the first three nrust be a woman, and another is that three out of the first six must be women ; I take it that the notes to this effect were not inserted specially in the interests of women teachers, but in the interests of pupils. In the large schools you should have women to do with the girls. These regulations do secure one of the three best positions to a woman. 7. To Mr. Davidson.} I remember the resolution that was passed by the Education Institute when in Otago an experienced and very highly qualified woman was compelled to move out of a third-grade school as soon as it reached the fourth grade. The resolution emphatically protested against the entire exclusion of such women from schools of a higher grade than Grade 3. The resolution was well received, and passed unanimously, I think. The only ground on which a woman should be removed from a position should be loss of efficiency. Ido not know how we could compel Boards to allow well-qualified women to retain such positions. It would be a good way perhaps if the Teachers' Institute took such cases before their Appeal Court, where the Institute were satisfied that the efficiency of the school would not suffer. I remember another resolution that was passed, somewhat to this effect : That it be a recommendation that the first woman teacher in a school should hold a position equal to that of the second assistant, and receive a salary- at least equal to that paid to the second male teacher. This was passed without any trouble. 8. To the Chairman.} It is an advantage to the State that women, highly educated and highly endowed, should go into the ranks of those who help to build up the nation. Such women are a valuable asset. If Grade 4 positions were thrown open to women the two safeguards provided by the regulations would have no value. If you struck out those footnotes the women would be left entirely at the mercy of the Boards. I think it would meet the case if clause 3 were to be altered to declare that at least one of the first two assistants should be a woman. Women going into tire backblocks very often find it necessary, for their own self-protection, to burden themselves with another female. I think some of these women in sole-charge schools have to take up work that is very difficult and trying. Emile Ulysse Just examined on oath. (No. 91.) 1. To the Chairman.} I am a teacher in the employ of the North Canterbury Education Board, and at present lam headmaster of the Lyttelton District High School. I have been there for twenty-two years. Before that I was at Staffordtown, on the West Coast, and for nine years second master of the East Christchurch School. I was for thirteen years in Victoria. My educational qualification is a First Victorian Certificate of Competency, and in New Zealand Dl. It is my intention to bring tinder the notice of the Commission some matters of vital importance to the educational needs of this Dominion, where, although yet in its infancy, much has been done educationally for itj,-advancement. Good as our system is, and probably 7 well adapted to meet present needs, who will contend that there is not room for improvement, or that some thought for future development would not be of incalculable benefit? In other words, the welfare of posterity depends largely upon the training of those attending our primary schools, children of the masses —of the workers—children of democracy! Of necessity they are often brought up under conditions and in circumstances not likely to develop a taste for the beautiful, and outside of the school they have little opportunit} 7 of coming in contact with the best hygienic conditions, and little hope of having presented to them that which is just, noble, good, and grand. When visiting any of our cities or larger towns I have often been struck by the contrast between the building's of the high schools and colleges and those of the primary schools. Are not the former vastly superior in external appearance and architectural adornment, in internal equipment and design, and do they not possess more spacious and ornamental grounds? If all these things are necessary for training children coming from the best homes, with hygienic surroundings, ample and ornamental grounds, and well furnished and decorated interiors, how much more are they necessary for training those coining from homes without those advantages ! Have they not an equal claim to have their tastes cultivated, and their latent genius awakened by a training given in buildings equally fine and properly equipped, and with perfect hygienic conditions, affording instructive object-lessons, and instilling high ideals to be carried to the parental homes, and once having homes of their own, to be emulated there? What, then, it, may be asked, are
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the pressing needs of our primary schools? To begin with, the sites are much too small, and action should at once be taken to secure better and larger sites. With the increase of population land will become more valuable, while more or yet larger sites will be required. Most of our playgrounds are already far too cramped, and a wise provision would be to set aside suitable sites now, and to endeavour to increase those already existing, before it becomes too expensive or-impossible to do so, for costly resumption of lands would produce a hesitancj- in acquiring "a sufficient area. England has long ago realized that for school purposes suitable sites, however costly, must be acquired. Continental nations have reached the same conclusion, and in the neighbouring States of Australia this matter is receiving more consideration. Educationists agree that Switzerland shows the way among nations, setting them a noble example in its school hygiene, buildings, premises, and sites. Dr. Combe, a high educational authority, says, " The Swiss people may well be proud of their school areas and buildings. Wherever one may be travelling, whether in cities or villages, in townships or hamlets, when one finds on the road a building more beautiful, richer, more spacious, better situated than the rest, with spacious and ornamental grounds, one may be sure that it is a school building at which he is looking." The Swiss idea is that the site must be a commanding one, worthy of a noble building; and it is set aside, though there may be no intention to erect a school for a century to come; for it is certain that it will sooner or later be required. Five acres is regarded as an absolute minimum area for any school and its grounds. This would be sufficient where the parks of the towns are adjacent, and as far as is possible the schools are placed contiguous to the parks. It should ever be kept in mind that large areas give better opportunities for physical exercises, gymnastics, military drill, and free games. The school area must be well kept; part laid out in ornamental flower-plots; part planted with trees, both ornamental and useful; part should be asphalted; and yet another part should be of such earth as will form a surface that does not become too hard, so that a sufficient variety of games may be possible. Especially in connection with the infants' department there should be a well-kept lawn, and an excellently kept garden, supplying much interesting material for instruction, and many things to excite the powers of observation. Nature-study can commence in this way at an early age. How far do our school areas meet the necessities of the children? Too many of them are, I am afraid, badly situated, commanding no view of the surrounding country, urban or rural, too small and cramped, ill kept, without ornamental flower-plots, gardens, or lawns, and doing nothing to reinforce the rural power of the school; the surface covered with rough shingle or other coarse material, containing in wet weather many pools of water drained from the insanitary surface, which in turn become patches of mud or thick dust. Having secured a suitable site in a healthy situation, the Swiss proceed to erect a building noble in its architectural character, beautifying to its town or city, and such that the inhabitants can turn to with justifiable pride and admiration. The conditions laid down for its construction are as follows : The walls must be of stone or pressed bricks, all permeable material being prohibited for sanitary reasons. The roof must be of slates or tiles, galvanized iron not being allowed. The flooring must be of seasoned hardwood, parquetry preventing the entry of dust into grooves, and permitting thorough and proper cleaning. The ordinary style of flooring is pronounced -unsatisfactory. The floors of all corridors must be of concrete or cements closely imitating marble, and all angles of walls, external and internal, must be rounded off. The ceilings must be of metal or fibrous plaster, the old plaster ceilings being abolished, and rough walls and floors with dust-filled seams, such as we have, are condemned, being inimical to good hygiene. The rooms are made to accommodate thirty or forty-two children, and in no case more than fifty. For each group of children there must be a spare class-room. In addition there are a large hall, a museum, a library, a well-furnished teachers' room, a manual-room for boys, a cooking-room for girls, a gymnastic hall, and proper hat and cloak rooms. No matter how spacious a room is the number of pupils must not exceed fifty, for respiration and perspiration rapidly bring about a vitiation of the air. Of the four systems of lighting the one most favoured is the rectangular system, in which the light is admitted from the left and back of the pupils, the windows at the back being high and small. In New Zealand many of our rooms are badly lighted, and are made to accommodate seventy or eighty or even ninety pupils; our buildings are plain even to barrenness, unlovely and unworthy to be loved, and are too cramped for want of the extra accommodation required for school purposes. One of the most serious defects of our school-rooms is the unsatisfactory .method of their ventilation, heating, and cooling. Where hygienic conditions are imperfect lassitude and inattention result, and pupils and teachers alike are in a bad way for progression. Consider only the summer temperature and conditions of some of our schools and the winter temperature of others, and you at once perceive how imperfect must be their pedagogic efficiency; for as soon as the air becomes poor the vitality of the pupils is reduced, and so also when the heat becomes excessive. In this Dominion we trust largely to mere connection currents, which do not provide a sufficient supply of pure air, and are unsatisfactory. In Switzerland during summer special provision is made for cooling and ventilation by conduits improved by fans which are driven by electricity, by water-turbines, or otherwise : these greatly modify the temperature while at the same time providing a supply of pure air. During winter, open fireplaces and stoves being absolutely prohibited, every school has a proper heating and ventilating stove, supplying to each room pure warm air which has its proper degree of humidity. This last is an important consideration, authorities having shown that undue dryness of the heated air causes the teacher and the pupils alike considerable discomfort and lassitude, features not in evidence when the air is sufficiently saturated. The air is supplied from outside the school buildings, and the stove contains a water-vessel, from which it draws its moisture suited to the temperature. In many schools a thermostatic contrivance automatically controls the suppty and registers the temperature of each room. Moreover, a thermometer is set into the wall of every room, so that it can be viewed from the corridor, enabling the attendant
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to regulate the conditions with the minimum of trouble. How striking is the contrast between such a system and that in vogue with us ! Here the pupils near the open fireplace or stove are Toasting, while those in the distance are perishing with the cold, both groups being rendered unfit to give proper attention to the instruction given, one being sleepily uncomfortable and the other miserably both the health of the child and the efficiency of the school being prejudicially-affected. As some evidence of the fact that open fireplaces do not supply sufficient warmth to the pupils in the remote parts of the room, 1 have taken the temperatures half-way between the fire and the end of the room upon two mornings during this winter. Room, brick, 30ft. by 21ft., containing thirty pupils; fire lit before 8 a.m. : Temperature at 9 a.m., 44°; 10 a.m., 46°; noon, 46°; 3 p.m., 50°. Same room (second day), 9 a.m., 42°; 10 a.m., 45°; noon, 47°; 3 p.m., 49. Another room, brick, 42 ft. by 21 ft., containing sixty-four pupils : First day—9 a.m., 43°; 10 a.m., 44°; noon, 46°; 3 p.m., 49°. Second day—9 a.m., 40°; 10 a.m., 44°; noon, 47°; 3 p.m., 50°. Result of observations in a city school built of wood: On a cold morning two hours after the fire is lit the temperature of a room with children in it rises about 8° or 9° Fahr. In a room with fire for two hours without children the temperature rises only 4° Fahr. Therefore the fire raises the temperature only about 4° or 5° Fahr. On a really cold day the temperature cannot be raised above 48° Fahr. Authorities give preference to the heating and ventilating stove used in Swiss schools. Before the opening , of the schools the air is allowed to circulate in the double envelope of the stove, which makes the heating more rapid and economical; the external air is supplied at the time of entry into the school. These stoves are in great favour in both Europe and America, and their use would probably effect a considerable saving as compared with our present wasteful and unsatisfactory system. In the erection of new schools there would, be a saving in the matter of erecting chimney-stacks which would more than cover the cost of the stove. The coal bill in a city school costs from £40 to £60 per winter. The saving on the cost of fuel would more than pay interest and sinking fund on the cost of the stove. Even in schools that have a life of, say, only ten years, it would pay to provide proper stoves; for, unlike chimneys, they are easily movable into a new building. Moreover, open fireplaces take up at least half of the caretaker's time for cleaning and laying the fires. The present seating-accommodation of most of our schools is very defective. The old type of long desks screwed to the floor, and clumsy seats without backs, are still in use. Even many of the single and dual desks now being supplied are not up to date, and are in many ways unsatisfactory. For school-children the lateral range of space should be from 24 in. to 28 in. The new Mauchain desk is strongly recommended by authorities as one of the best in existence. With this desk work may be done either sitting or standing. The mechanism allows of a great many positions, both as regards " difference " and angle. The seat rotates and turns easily, so that the entry of the pupil is also easy. The back can occupy five different positions, and the foot-rest may be laterally varied in three positions. It admits of good positions for reading, writing, drawing, sewing, light manual work, ifcc, and from the standing-point of hygiene is one of the best. The Mauchain infant-desk is for three pupils, and the table can be arranged in four different ways— viz., for manual work, for reading, for writing, and for drawing. The under-surface of the table is used as a slate for work with chalk. This work with chalk, it is asserted, gives great lightness of touch to the hand, and the opportunity of writing or drawing objects in large dimensions is said to more vividly impress the imaginations of the children, and to more firmly engrave in their minds the form of letters, &c., and the mode of writing them. The Zurich School desk has cast-iron standards, and table and seat of wood. The seat is fixed, and in order to allow pupils to stand a leaf of the table folds back and is intended to receive a reading-book. It is a most pleasing and useful form of school-9esk, and highly recommended by experts. The position of blackboards in our schools is generally bad. Owing to the fact that the open fireplace usually occupies the centre of the wall in front of the children, the board has to be placed in the right-hand corner of the room. One group of children can at best get only a side view, while the view of another group is interrupted by the teacher, and those in the far corner have to look along the diagonal of the room — i.e., in a room, say, 60 ft. by 21 ft., a distance of from 50 ft. to 63 ft. Again, the boards are placed on an easel and slope away from the children, which gives rise to troublesome reflection. The boards should be of slate or ground glass, and the colour of the writing-surface should be brown instead of black, to avoid the phenomena of astigmatism. Swiss regulations regarding sanitary inspection : The sanitary inspection of schools is placed under the orders and surveillance of the Director of the Health Bureau. At least two general visits take place annually in the infant and primary schools—one in January, the other after the long summer vacations; and the medical inspectors are bound to make supplementary visits in these establishments in their districts every time they are required to do so by the Director of the Health Bureau. The medical inspector must control the hygienic state of the class-room from the point of view of light, of heating, of ventilation, of furniture, and of cleanliness. Each child is to be individually examined. The medical inspectors' report is sent directly to the Health Bureau, which transmits it to the Department of Public Instruction, and to the inspector of primary schools in the district. In conclusion, I beg to state that complaints are frequent about the insanitary condition of teachers' residences, and of the absence of some of the conveniences usually found in most of the up-to-date dwellinghouses. Teachers pay rent for these houses, and the Boards, or whoever is responsible, might be expected to carry out the ordinary duties and responsibilities of a landlord. To sum up, I beg to recommned—For future development (1) better, larger, and more ornamental school-areas; (2) better and nobler buildings, with increased working-capacity,- with improved lighting-arrangements, and with better internal equipment; for immediate consideration (1) improved ventilation, heating, and cooling; (2) more up-to-date seating-accommodation; (3) improved blackboards; (4) medical examination
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of buildings, premises, and children. I notice that in E.-2, page 20, the Minister of Education in his report says that the sum of £56,000 has been diverted by the Boards from the money that should have been used for the maintenance of the schools and the improvements of the furniture. I have not followed this out to see whether it is general, but the statement is that the total amount was £90,000, that there is a balance of £33,000 left, and that £56,000 has been diverted. There should be no diversion of this money so long as some of our schools are in the condition' that they are in now in internal equipment, as regards room, seating-accommo-dation, and warming-apparatus. 2. To Mr. Davidson.] I have not estimated the amount of money that would be required to place the schools of New Zealand, as far as buildings and heating and lighting and general equipment are concerned, on the satisfactory footing on which I should like them to be placed. I have not the data to make the calculation. I know that in the Canton of Zurich one-third of the total annual revenue is devoted to education. The method of taxation there is totally different from New Zealand's. Generally speaking, what I say about the schools here is true of the schools in other districts of New Zealand. If you had smaller classes, in my opinion, the single desk would be an improvement on the dual desk. 3. To Mr. Thomson.] I cannot tell you what the average salary is that is paid in Switzerland; I should require also to tell you the average cost of living, for it is the cheapest country in the world. I am not acquainted with the aspect of the school buildings in America, but I have seen pictures. We cannot alter the exterior of our present schools, but the interior should certainly be attended to. When school buildings are erected I think they should be of more ornamental and better design. When you have not got the money the interior should be the first consideration. 4. To Mr. Poland.] I speak on this particular matter on behalf of the North Canterbury Education Institute. I hardly see how you can improve the efficiency of the teaching without increasing the cost. You would require first of all to replace your pupil-teachers by assistants, and that would need more money. 5. To Mr. Kirk.] I do not know whether the Board have made any recent selections of sites in this district. They have recently put up buildings. These are an improvement on the old buildings. It is of the old buildings that I speak principally. It is the internal arrangements that I think might be tackled at once. 6. Mr. Pirani.] You said that from somewhere you found out that the Boards had diverted £56,000 from Maintenance Fund? —That is the statement in the report of the Minister. 7. Are you not wrong?—lf you have the statement here I will read it. 8. You will find that the money has been diverted from the rebuilding fund, to maintenance —exactly the opposite to what you say. The Boards have used for maintenance-money which they should have saved and put on one side for rebuilding?—l think not. George Hogben further examined. (No. 92.) 1. The Chairman.] Will you kindly explain how this matter stands, so that the witness may know?—So far as the parliamentary votes are concerned, there is one fund only that is necessary to be kept therefor, both for maintenance and repair of scohol buildings and for rebuilding —not two funds, but one fund. The total amount that should be available to the Boards at one time is found by adding together the whole of the grants given and deducting the total of the amounts spent by the Boards, according to their returns, for maintenance and repairs and rebuilding of the schools during those years in which the grants have been given. The net total during the years referred to would be £90,000. The balances of Boards show that they actually had at the end of 1910 £34,000. Therefore there was a deficiency on the combined account of £56,000. It does not follow even then that the Boards have transferred the whole of that to other accounts, because the Boards may use 7 per cent, of the amount for new additions and works; 7 per cent, of the total grants given during the period comes to £23,000. So there was at the end of 1910 at least £33,000. That amount the Boards should have had for the combined purposes of maintenance and rebuilding, which amount their balances do not show them to have had : that is taking all the Boards together. It does not follow that every Board was in the position of showing such a deficit, but that was the state of affairs when they were taken together. There are two causes, roughly, for the apparent disappearance of the money. One is this :in 1903, when the present basis of payment on maintenance and rebuilding was made, the Boards had to divide for the first time their Building Accounts —or should have divided their Building Accounts —into accounts of the moneys received and spent for new buildings and additions required for increased accommodation on the one hand, and the money received and spent for repairs and maintenance and replacement of old buildings on the other. In making two accounts out of the one, some of the Boards, in misapprehension of the circumstances and the effect of what they were doing, charged the whole of the deficit to one or other of these two accounts, whereas the deficit was made up in some cases of deficits on the two accounts; and in other cases they actually transferred a deficit on the Maintenance of Buildings Account to the New Building Account, as' if it were a deficit on the New Building Account. So that the gross amount of £56,000, or the net amount of £33,000, ought to be reduced by certain sums wrongly debited in the first case which make the balances they should have had in 1903 appear to be greater than they actually were. Of course, we took the balances as they should have been then. The other cause of the disappearance —an admitted cause —is as follows (I wish it understood that I am not charging the Boards with wrongful misuse of moneys) : Some of the Boards have applied for grants for new buildings and the amount has been granted them—the amount they asked for; but very often this has been found insufficient to meet the cost of new buildings. Now, they
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have used some of the money which is given for the repair and maintenance of the buildings and for rebuilding of old schools to make up the difference and to pay the extra amount required r»for the building of new 7 schools. They should not have used that money in that way, because it was voted for another purpose. The only money they should have used was money from what we call the General Account, derived now from the I2s. per head of average attendance. There was no other, money they could have used to make up the deficit in the cost of the new bulidings. They could, however, have done what one district has done—and I do not mind saying that the Auckland District has done it since the position has been pointed out to it—namely, applied for the extra amount required to make up the cost. That is being looked into, and if the building — in many cases, at all events —is shown to be more costly, through no fault of the Board but simply through an increase in the cost of building in the district, the money has been made up to it. There are thus only two ways—namely, taking the money out of the General Account, or asking for an additional grant and proving that the deficit was due to circumstances that could not have been foreseen. Instead of doing that, many of the Boards, rather than come to the Government again, have drawn on this vote which is for the maintenance and repair of buildings and rebuilding of buildings, but which was not intended for the purpose of new buildings at all. I do not say that all the Boards have done that. One or two of them admit clearly that they have done it, and they do not quite know how to put it right. This is not so much an accusation against the Boards as a statement of some financial difficulties that must be faced sooner or later. 2. Mr. Pirani.] Would you say that that money is available —that those Boards have that money available and that they ought to have spent it on maintenance? —Most of that money should be available for rebuilding. 3. And should not be spent on maintenance?— Well, of course, it is a combined fund, usable for both purposes. 4. Mr. Pirani.] Do you know of any instance where this money has been improperly spent and could be recovered and spent on the maintenance of schools —I mean illegally spent?— Well, it is illegally spent; that is not the same as improperly spent. 5. I mean fraudulently?—Oh, no, no. I think you must assume that it was done quite innocently. 6. Is it not a fact that large numbers of the Boards have had to spend an enormous sum in putting in new sewerage systems in schools? —Yes. 7. Was it ever contemplated when the maintenance allowance was made up that that should come under the heading of maintenance?— No. 8. That is really an extraordinary expenditure?— Well, that has raised another question altogether. It is not included in my estimate of 3 per cent. Emile Ulysse Just further examined. (No. 93.) 1. To Mr. Poland.] There are at present sixteen pupils at the Lyttelton District High School; we average from twenty to thirty. We averaged twenty-one, I think, last year. It would be possible for these pupils to attend one of the secondary schools in Christchurch, but it would not be convenient to the people in Lyttelton. They found it inconvenient to send their children through the tunnel. A number of the children now attending the secondary department of the Lyttelton School would not avail themselves of secondary education in Christchurch. 2. To Mr. Hogben.} I think that most of the schools in certain cantons in Switzerland —those that are best equipped—are provided with desks that can be put into three positions. In the cantons they adopt locally a certain pattern of seating-accommodation, and that is used generally throughout the canton. This is done in Zurich, Geneva, Berne, and by the Geneva Council of Education. I suppose that some of the old schools have not got them all in yet. I have not seen the schools in Geneva of recent years. I should be surprised to learn that in 1907 not more than one-fifth of them had these desks. With respect to new schools, in Zurich they set apart 5 acres of land for new schools. They are .not in favour of placing the schools too much in the middle of the city; they prefer the outskirts. The large girls' school in Zurich has not 5 acres around it. It is really the best schools in Switzerland that I would have us imitate. If a large allowance of floor-space were given to the children it might have some effect on the lighting of the school-rooms. As to size of roomSj I could work out what the size of our class-rooms would have to be on the Swiss allowance, with classes of fifty : they allow 7 212 ft. on the average. For fifty children this would come to about 800 square feet—about 16 square feet per pupil. A .schoolroom on this basis would not be more than 22 ft. oi 23 ft, in width. With 800 square feet, if the room were, say, 24 ft. wide, it would be about 33 ft. long. I would endeavour to have the light from the high back and lower left. I think light could be provided for in such a room, if the building was properly designed originally. I would put the desks parallel with the 33 ft, wall. I have not been to Switzerland myself lately. 3. To the Chairman.} I am convinced that it is inimical to the interests of the children and not fair to the teacher that classes should be as large as we have them. It is the practice in some European countries to have all questions affecting sanitation of the schools reported on, and if necessary action enforced .by somebody outside the Board and the School Committee. I think it desirable that a Council of Education should be set up which should control all the professional part of the work.
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Thursday, 27th June, 1912. John Caughley examined on oath. (No. 94.) 1. To the Chairman.] 1 am headmaster of the West Christchurch District High School. I Save held the appointment just about two years. Prior to that 1 was for four years at the Training College in Wellington, and about nineteen years under the Hawke's Bay Education Board. My educational qualification is 81. lam a Master of Arts of New Zealand University. lam President of the New Zealand Education Institute. I do not pretend, in all the matters I shall bring up in my statement, to be voicing the opinions of the New Zealand Education Institute officially. Many of the matters have not been dealt with by the Institute, but one matter on which I have the authority of the Institute is that of promotion. When I deal with that you will understand that I am voicing the desires of the teachers of New 7 Zealand. This is my statement : The evidence already- before the Commission shows that in many respects our educational system needs reforming. Among the most important of these reforms are those relating to the syllabus; scarcity of teachers; promotion of teachers; grouping of small schools, coordination of primary, secondary, technical, and university education; expense of administration; overlapping of control between Department, Boards, and Committees. The details of most of these matters have already been brought before the Commission, and in some cases causes of defect have been shown and remedies suggested. As far as possible I shall refrain from mentioning the details again, but will endeavour to show how closely most of the needed phases of reform are interdependent and must, therefore be solved in relation to the others. My main contention is that no satisfactory solution can be reached without a system of administration dependent on the nature of the work required to be done. Our first consideration should be the reforming of existing defects in a thorough manner, so that the various sectional reforms will harmonize with and strengthen the others. Our next consideration should be to rearrange our system of administration so that the reforms may be most effectively carried out. In the past too much concern has been shown for the conservation of existing administration and of various official and personal prerogatives, and too little concern for the improvements of education. Many reforms whose soundness and practicability have been admitted freely by Ministers of Education and others have been shelved or abandoned, because the reform would require some alteration of the present administrative system. Surely the work is the important matter, and the machinery a subsidiary matter. These statements do not in any way detract from the honour due to the men who have devoted time, thought, and energy- to the administration of the system. It is the system that makes the best administration impossible and that bars the way to many reforms. The essential features of our present system is that it is intended to secure local control and local interest. This is the most valuable feature of the system, and in any reorganization local control should be preserved, in, order to promote local interest. For this reason any changes made should be an adaption of the present system that makes only such changes as the paramount claims of education require. fn effect, our system is not really one of local control, and the interest aroused is very slight. Taking one education district as a sample of the others, we find that about 1,350 Committeemen were elected by about five thousand or six thousand voters —that is, by fewer people than those who vote in one parliamentary electorate. So little interest is taken in the election of Committees that no less than twenty-three districts in the educational district referred to did not trouble to elect a Committee at all. The duties of Committees are too trivial to arouse any interest. It is really surprising that so many capable men consent to fill so barren a position. When the caretaker's salary is fixed and the winter's fuel is ordered, four-fifths of the Committee's income is expended. Though Committees have so few direct responsibilities, they occupy the position of delegates for the election of the Boards, which constitute the real authority. Only- in theory can such a system be called one of local control. The system is of necessity very costly. The size of the education districts makes it impossible for the members of a Board to attend promptly, effectively, and economically to the hundreds of details as well as to the discharge of many larger responsibilities. Important business has to be hurried through, and yet there are many vexatious delays. Many matters have to be voted on without a proper knowledge of the conditions. Only the devotion and self-denial of the members of the Boards prevent the cumbersome unbusinesslike system from producing the more dangerous results. On the other hand, if much of the business were entrusted to the Committees in their present form, the expense would of necessity be even greater on the whole, on account of the cutting-up of work into so many small sections and odd jobs. Then, again, the present triple control of Department, Board, and Committee has caused endless delays, misunderstandings, and crosspurposes. Many- attempted reforms, such as the conveyance of children to central schools, have been rendered inoperative. The provincialism of most Boards and of the teachers grouped under Boards has made it almost impossible for a teacher to pass from one district to another. This, together with the present mode of appointing teachers without a system, makes it impossible to secure the most effective distribution of the teaching-power of the Dominion. Some education districts and some schools can draw the best teachers. Other schools and districts whose needs are as great or even greater can only have the less efficient teachers. Under our present system no effective, interchange and proper distribution can. be effected, and the education of a "large proportion of our children suffers seriously in consequence. The absence of a unified control of the Inspectors is partly the cause of many of the troubles that have arisen over the syllabus. One authority frames the syllabus, independent authorities interpret and administer it. We have almost as many interpretations of the syllabus as we have education districts. The above defects have not been pointed out as mere criticism, but as indications of the way in which reform may be secured. I would suggest that the Education Boards and Committees be amalgamated into School Boards of a size intermediate between that of Boards and Committees. Speaking broadly.
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the schools of a city and suburbs would be under the charge of one School Board; those in a •~ large town, together with those in the immediate neighbourhood, would be under one School Board; other schools could be grouped under other School Boards, governing convenient areas of about the size of the provinces outlined in the late local Government Bill. It might be more " convenient -to take two or more parliamentary electorates to form School Board districts in the country. The 2,100 almost powerless School Committees and the thirteen overburdened Education Boards of the Dominion would thus be combined into about forty reasonably sized School Boards. The present vexatious dual control would cease; each School Board would have full control of the business management of the schools in its district. The business would be important and extensive enough to give ample scope for the energies of many of our present members of Committees and Boards. The districts would be of such, a size that all the members of the Board could be personally acquainted with the business brought forward. The work to be done would be extensive enough to enable a small staff of workmen to be kept, who would be able to deal promptly and cheaply with repairs and renovations. By making a regular tour of the schools, all necessary work could be cleared up without unnecessary visiting and reporting and waste of time. Supplies of building-materials, appliances, coal, stationery, &c, could be procured in large quantities at reduced cost. The amount of correspondence and office-work would be greatly reduced. Elections could be conducted by means of proper returning officers and parliamentary or other rolls. Meetings could be held in the evenings, except perhaps in country districts. The teachers and parents of any one school could still organize entertainments or bazaars in aid of their particular schools, provided a statement of receipts and expenses were forwarded to the School Board. It could be provided that not more than one or perhaps two members of the School Board should be elected from any one of the present school districts. Such a system would provide for a real local control, and would command more interest and attention from the householders and parents. Moreover, such a plan would so modify our present system that the reforms presently to be referred to would be capable of being carried into effect. The business management of the secondary and technical schools might be better left under separate Boards, since their revenues are derived from such different sources and are intended for such different purposes from those required for primary education. The control of purely educational affairs should be entrusted to a Council of Education consisting of the four Principals of the training colleges; two Inspectors from each Island; one primary, one secondary, and one technical schoolteacher elected from each Island; one University- professor elected by the Professorial Board : the Inspector-General to preside. A Council so constituted would bring about a unity of effort and purpose that is so badly needed, and at the same time would be quite free from the objections urged against centralization. Composed of experts from all parts of New Zealand, and from all branches of education, the Council could bring a breadth of view to the consideration of educational policy that could not possibly be attained at present. This Council should control the educational policy of primary 7, secondary, and technical education, and should have power also to make recommendations to the Minister of Education or to the University Senate on university education. The Council should in a more or less general way draw up the curricula for each of the three branches of education, and control the inspection and examination of the three grades of schools. Only by having all education under the direction of one competent bodycan a really practical co-ordination of these branches of education be brought about. The violence of the shock to the pupil in passing from one grade of education to another could be eased. Any overlapping or waste of effort could be checked. None of these results can be effectively reached under the present isolation of the three systems. The four training colleges would be under the guidance of the Council of Education, and, as the educational control of primary, secondary, and technical education would be under the same Council, suitable provision could be made for training teachers for each of the three grades of schools. Further, it would be possible, under this unified control, to secure a closer co-operation with regard to teaching-methods between the training colleges and the schools in which the students would afterwards teach. If the schools and the training colleges were working along the same lines of progress, both classes of institution would be greatly- benefited. Most of the troubles concerning the present primary syllabus are the outcome of the defects of our present system of inspectorial control. Very many of the troubles regarding the syllabus would disappear if the Council described above not only framed the syllabus but also directed its application. The present syllabus was drawn up by one authority, to whom its purposes, its principles, interpretations, and adaptability were, of course, quite clear. Once it was issued, however, the designer of the plan had little or no control of the administration of the syllabus. The only kind of syllabus that could survive such experiences would be one in which cast-iron uniformity and mechanical routine were the guiding principles. In spite of any improvements of the syllabus that may be made as the result of the recommendations of this Commission, the full value of even a perfect syllabus will only be secured when a single body such as the Council described shall guide its operations. This means that the Inspectors of the three grades of schools should be under the direction of one educational body, and that a body of experts selected on a broad basis. Detailed reference to the syllabus will be made later. The most serious misapplications of the syllabus occur among the less experienced teachers. These we send, unfortunately, to the very- schools where their inexperience and deficiency of judgment will do the greatest amount of harm. The seriousness of the effects of a badly drawn scheme of work in small schools is twofold. One-sixth of the primary scholars of New Zealand are in schools of less than thirty-five in attendance, and onethird are in schools of less than eighty- in attendance. Further, the teacher in these schools represents almost the whole of the intellectual influence which country children come under. Now the fairly large School Boards suggested above would be more likely to group a number of small schools than would the present Education Boards, who depend on the purely local Committees.
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The Council of Education also could, on the advice of the Inspectors, direct that in certain districts it would be for the better education of the children that a certain number should be supplied by one central school. Even if some small schools were grouped there would still be many small schools, and for this and other reasons there requires to be a much better distribution of the teaching-power of the Dominion. This can only be done under a properly organized ■ andwidely administered system of appointment and transfer of teachers. The number and the rangeof attainment and experience of the teachers in a small Board, or even in some of the larger Boards, does not give the required number of adjustments and combinations that are necessary for a proper distribution of the whole teaching staff. In all the districts of Taranaki, Marlborough, Nelson, Grey, Westland, and South Canterbury there are only thirty-five schools with more than eighty in average attendance. Most of these districts are completely shut out in the matter of appointments from the other districts. Thus the smaller districts suffer in the matter of supply of the best teachers in a double measure. The schools are all small, and then- is no outlet for a good teacher to be promoted, and no chance of an influx of trained teachers from without. If a Dominion promotion scheme were established, educationwould benefit to an enormous extent. The following reforms would become practicable: The rota of promotion, or, as 1 prefer to call it, of transfer, could be so arranged that no ex-student, ex-pupil-teacher, or uncertificated teacher should be sent to take sole charge of a small school, or even half charge of a two-teacher school of the larger type. The teacher of a small school has in some ways a more difficult task to face than the head teacher of the largest schools. The former really requires just as much experience, knowledge, and judgment in planning the scheme of work for his school as does the latter. He has to meet the needs of children who are of the same nature, who feel and think in the same way, whose mental development follows the same general lines as does that of the child in a large school. The child and his needs are much the same everywhere, and whether the plan of work and the methods of instruction are framed to meet the needs of twenty children or eight hundred, that plan and method are vital to the interests of the children not in the mass but individually. It may be urged that the inexperienced teacher affects a smaller number of pupils. True as a single teacher; but twenty such inexperienced teachers affect nearly as many children, and just as seriously, as do twenty assistants and pupil-teachers in a large school. In addition, then, to the call for judgment and experience in planning the work, the sole teacher has to face several classes at once, and give about a fourth or a sixth of his time to each class. The small schools, therefore, should be staffed by experienced teachers. It is unquestioned that the present system not only fails to do this, but finds great difficulty in finding teachers of any kind for these schools. If, now, the grading and transfer of teachers were under the control of the Council of Education, the following rota of transfer could be followed, with the necessary alterations in the scale of salaries to correspond to the new valuation of positions : All students and pupil-teachers after leaving the training college or completing their term should first be sent as junior assistants to the larger schools. There they would have afurther training in semi-responsible positions under the guidance of an experienced head teacher. They would also have opportunities for further study. Next they should be sent to act as assistants in two- or three-teacher schools, where they would have more responsibility, consideration being shown to the more efficient ones. Then they could be appointed head teachers of small schools, and so on to senior assistantships and the more important positions. The grading for promotion could be made on a uniform basis by four groups of Inspectors. There would be one group in each training-college or University district, with a Chief Inspector for this district. For the purposes of grading the Principal of the district training college could be associated with the Inspectors. It should be these four Chief Inspectors who had seats on the Council of Education. The Council of Education would combine the four grading-lists, and from these, under regulations, the four groups of Inspectors would, before the end of each year, make the necessary transfers of teachers, with as little movement of teachers to long distances as possible. It is sometimes urged that local interest is promoted if power is given to a local body to choose the teacher. This may be so, but the question is not whether it interests some one to choose a teacher, but whether in the interests of the education of the children the best use is to be made of the teaching staff of the Dominion. The plan outlined leaves much to the Inspectors, but there would be about ten Inspectors in each group. Though the Inspectors would sometimes be transferred by the Council it would only be in rotation, and their combined judgment would be more reliable than any we have at present. The Auckland District is really following this method, for on the Inspectors the whole of the Auckland system for the transfer of teachers depends. In fact, in any district where any measure of judicious appointment prevails the measure of success is in proportion to the effect of the recommendations of the Inspectors. This plan would, together with that of grouping schools, help to overcome the difficulty of shortage of teachers. Fewer country teachers would be required in grouped schools under more efficient teachers. If the plan were brought into operation most of the 730 quite uncertificated teachers could be transferred to the larger schools, where most of them would receive guidance and training, and where they could also qualify for certificates. In view of the fact that the least experienced teachers would be sent to the larger schools, the number of such assistants should bo somewhat increased. This would make possible a greater subdivision of the very large classes that exist in some large schools. The plan of transfer outlined would also help to overcome the shortage of teachers, because many young teachers who only stay a few years in the profession would be likely to stay longer if their first appointments were not so oppressively responsible and isolated, as when a small school has to be managed immediately after leaving apprenticeship. Summed up, the above system of administration provides for local control in a real measure. It gives to men of business capacity and administrative power fuller control of such matters as they would claim to be conversant with. It gives to experts, widely chosen and well-balanced both as to locality
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and qualifications, the control of matters purely educational, concerning which the business or professional man does not profess to have more than a general opinion. It would make possible many reforms which could not or would not be carried into effect under the present comparatively ineffective system. Be shortage of teachers : One of the chief causes of the present shortage of teachers, is the short period of service given by women teachers'after they leave the training colleges. On an average women teachers only serve for seven or eight years after they are trained. This means that about every eight years we have to renew, by fresh recruits, about 80 per cent, of the large body of women teachers. Among the pupil-teachers at present employed there are one boy to every three girls. But among the adult teachers there are two men to every three women, while there are four men to every three women, among teachers, with 2 or 1 on their certificates, the lower mark of which may generally be obtained about seven years after leaving the training college. In the First Division, generally obtainable in ten years after leaving the training college, there are six men to every three women. Put briefly, in the Division, which is reached entirely by teaching-efficiency and length of service, a supply of 382 women teachers requires a force of 526 female pupil-teachers, while a supply of 741 men teachers in the same division is provided for by 174 male pupil-teachers. It will thus be seen that more permanence would be given to our staff of teachers if more boys were induced to enter the profession. To do this we must compete for boys against the other branches of the Public Service and of business generally. The present salaries are quite inadequate for this purpose. The large number of short-service women teachers, who do not at any time look upon teaching as a profession, causes the entrance salaries to be low, and the final salaries will not bear comparison with the worst-paid of any of the professions or with the worst-paid branches of the Public Service. A pupil-teacher receives less than a Telegraph messenger or Railway cadet. Over 2,000 adult teachers out of 2,700 adult teachers do not receive more than £185 per year. The highest-paid teachers in New Zealand, and these are few in number, are only paid equal to a third-grade clerk in the Railway service. As long as such conditions obtain there is bound to be a shortage of teachers. It is not only the men who are poorly paid, but the women also who remain in the profession for the full period of service. It is only fair to say that some improvements have been made in recent years, but these have mainly dealt with a better relative adjustment of salaries. The relation of grade to grade has been improved, and additions to salaries have been made in the right direction, but even since the introduction of the colonial scale of salaries the average salary per adult has not risen more than about £10 or £15 per annum. The popular idea is that large increases have been made to teachers' salaries. Syllabus : I am strongly of opinion that the children are now receiving through the medium of the present syllabus a much better education than children received under the old syllabus. In most of the subjects children are required to think and to act for thmesleves, and in these days of complex problems of society and industry the power to think clearly and reasonably is of far greater value than the possession of a store of unintelligible, undigested knowledge, which was only definite because it was learned off by heart and promptly and gladly forgotten in a year or two: The so-called overcrowding of the syllabus is largely due to the fact indicated already, that the author of the syllabus has so little opportunity to direct its application. The syllabus introduced a new and vastly improved method of education, and much of the detail found under the subject-headings was only intended to suggest the kind of matter by which this method should be introduced. Many teachers and Inspectors, ignoring the repeated statements in the regulations, took the whole of the matter that suggested, and, of course, found it too much to handle. The number of subjects has not really been increased. The nature-study is only a substitute for the object-lessons and elementary science of the old syllabus. The handwork is only intended as a means of expression and of illustration to be used to help other lessons. Very few set lessons in some of these subjects are required. If used in their proper place and in the proper way, they should really expedite the teaching of many subjects which they illustrate. Much of the other handwork is in place of drawing of the most abstract and intelligible kind. The teaching of solid geometry to upper boys used to occupy quite as much time as is demanded now for woodwork. The method of teaching woodwork and cookery is the cause of some of the complaints. These should be taught by the school-teachers so that time would not be wasted, and that the work might be in closer relation to the other work of the school. The complaint of indefiniteness of knowledge on the part of pupils is both well founded and not founded. Many people took the freedom given by the syllabus for license, and did not distinguish between essentials and nonessentials. In such subjects as reading, writing, drawing, spelling, and arithmetic there is no excuse under the present syllabus for indefiniteness or inaccuracy. There is just as much time per week now given to arithmetic as formerly, and the work to be covered in the school course is considerably less than it was twelve years ago. With regard to subjects such as grammar and geography, it may be admitted that knowledge in some respects is not so definite as formerly. This is because, acting on the guidance of all educationists, we recognize that a child's first ideas of a language or of natural phenomena must be vague and hazy, and that we can only help him by making these ideas a bit clearer year by year. The old style was to round off and complete such abstract subjects as grammar and physical geography by tremendous memorizing and roto work. Much of the so-called overcrowding is because some teachers and Inspectors still persist in trying to finish off in a definite way observations that are only intended to be advanced a stage in accordance with the child's growing powers. If the syllabus had been under proper direction and interpretation nine-tenths of the present troubles would never have arisen. With regard to the West Christchurch District High School secondary department, I desire to place the following before you : The secondary department was started in October, 1904, and though only about seventy pupils were expected, 165 — i.e., 106 boys and 59 girls—were enrolled. The majority of these pupils were not able to enter the high schools, though they were holders of proficiency
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certificates. The high schools only accept selected scholars and scholarship-holders. The fact that, as late in the year as October, 165 eligible free-place pupils were still unattached to any secondary school indicates that our secondary department met a real need. After a while the scholars grouped in two sections. One took the literary side on the lines of Junior Civil Service and Matriculation work, and the other took a commercial course, including a generous course of English, history, and geography. Shortly afterwards the Technical College opened, and though another large body of eligible free-place scholars was enrolled at the Technical Day School, there was no reduction in our roll numbers, not even in the commercial classes. This, again, indicates that the pupils in our school were not anxious to follow a purely technical course. It also shows that the Technical School reached a new group of free-place pupils who would other wise not be taking any secondary education at all. The course of work at the Boys' and the Girls' High Schools is mapped out on purely grammar-school lines. It is dominated by the idea of the university education. The course is intended to cover four or five years. This course is not of the kind that many parents wish for their children. Apart from those who cannot obtain admission to the high schools, many scholarship-holders and holders of special free places elect to come to our secondary department. The commercial part in our school is partly vocational, chiefly so for boys, but a considerable number of parents value the commercial course as a good all-round extension of the subjects taken up in the primary schools, without, on the one hand, undesired study of languages, or, on the other, of purely technical subjects. Many pupils not intended for commercial life highly benefit from such a course. We would emphasize the fact that it is the intimate relation between the secondary class and the primary school that prevents our commercial class from becoming too technical. The pupils in the literary division work on the lines of Civil Service and Matriculation programmes; but here again the relation to primary school, and the combined control of both secondary and primary departments, is the factor that prevents the literary course from following the hard-and-fast rules of classical programme used by the ordinary high schools. The course is more elastic, more adaptable, and the methods of teaching more in harmonj' with the pupils' previous experience than that of a high school. Hence the school fills a place in the secondary education that is not occupied by any other type of school, and it does so mainly by virtue of being a district high school. Even the literary course is chosen by many parents not so much for the purpose of preparing children to enter the Civil Service or the University, but to provide that extra training of character and mind that is necessary for any boy or girl in after-life. Thus there is a keen demand for our ex-pupils for general business, insurance, banking, warehouse, and similar positions. Since the establishment of the secondary department 1,071 pupils have passed through the secondary classes. The average length of stay is about two years. The following are the results of the examinations for the last six years: Matriculation —Presented, 47; passed, 42. Junior Civil Service —Presented, 136; passed with credit, 90; passed, 40: total passed, 130. Education Board Senior Scholarship—Presented, 11; obtained scholarships, 10. Twelve girls obtained School of Art exhibitions. A large number of ex-pupils have proceeded with further study. Many enter for the Senior Civil Service Examinations, others for the University or teachers' examinations. 2. To Mr. Pirani.~\ I do not mean that the staffs of workmen under the proposed Boards should erect buildings. It would be quite hopeless to attempt a calculation as to the amount each Board would average on the present allowance. It would be quite a small staff to do ordinary repairs, such as painting, which only need be done once in five years. I do not say that the Boards would get their clerical work done for nothing; it would be a small amount. I would not suggest any amount as the income of these Boards. There is no doubt that the chief question in connection with education in New Zealand is money. Under the system 1 propose a certain amount of economy would be effected; it would not meet all needs, but it would meet many. At present much work that is not supervised by the Boards is more expensive than it would otherwise be; I could give scores of cases where such work has cost double. There is really no other work for School Committees than looking after the cleaning of schools. I think it would increase expense if School Committees were given the supervision of all work in connection with the schools under their charge. It is a good plan if School Committees engage men to do a number of small jobs that require to be done. The large areas under the present Boards make it impossible to have a staff of three or four men to do such work. It is the teachers who get up entertainments for school gardens and so forth. I have not heard of picture-shows giving benefits for schools and handing over as much as £40. Such benefit performances could be given under my scheme. I would only have a School Committee if it were wanted to carry out some practical work, and. it would only exist till the work was done. I suppose if School Committees set themselves to it they could find other branches of effort, but members of School Committees complain that their work is hardly worth while. I am not cognisant of the functions of School Committees in regard to attempting to raise money from local bodies for technical classes or for technical work. There are no technical classes in connection with my school outside of school hours. Seven years after women teachers leave the Training College, 80 per cent, give up the teaching profession. My statement is based on the case I know most about. When I was appointed a pupil-teacher in Hawke's Bay there were fifty-two or fifty-three pupil-teachers, of whom six were boys; twelve years afterwards there were only two girls in the profession. T am very strongly of the opinion that the salary of the infant-mistress should be quite equal to that of the first assistant. Next to the headmaster the most important teacher is the infantmistress. Only a highly experienced woman can Jill the position of infant-mistress. It would be an advantage if women specialized in infant-teaching—that is where they are most required. 3. To Mr. Davidson.] I have had experience in many classes of schools in three education districts, and I think that the finished product of our primary schools is equal to that of ten years ago; we turn out pupils more adaptable and more ready to make their way than we used
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to do. Pupils now leave school one year, or perhaps two years, younger. Another point is, it all depends what test you make. The test of definiteness of knowledge is not the real test. --Some people think that a child ought to be fully educated at the age of fourteen. Children now leave the primary schools with a more intelligent outlook on life and a more real connection with the-surroundings of their life. It would present a problem to those who say that the syllabus Is overloaded if the}- were asked to suggest any subjects that could be deleted. There should be more singing—more free singing—it should take a greater part in school life. As headmaster I do not find that there is a great deal of clerical work required of me in connection with manual instruction in primary schools. I do not think that there should be any method of payment in connection with such instruction; if it is a subject that ought to be taught in schools it should be put on the same footing as geography. The granting of a special sum and the enforcement of a certain amount of time often distorts the subjects, and gives the idea that they should be kept apart, from other subjects with which they should be blended. I would correlate physical measurement to arithmetical geography. In our school nature-study forms a close relationship with geography. I do not think that nature-study should have a place on the time-table. 4. To Mr. Wells.] The grading of teachers would be done by four Inspectors, with the Chief Inspector at the head, associated with the Principal of the local training college. In each district about ten Inspectors should form a preliminary grading Board, and send on their results to the Council of Education. The grading in each district would be by a Board of Inspectors. Under such a system the difficulties complained of by lady teachers would largely disappear. Appointments to vacancies would be entirely irrespective of sex, and I see no objection to a head teacher being a lady; the efficiency of the service should be the only consideration. 5. 770 the Chairman.} I have only seen one woman teacher at work, and she is the infantteacher at my own school. It would be quite possible that a lady teacher would be able to take charge. The ordinary standard teacher has little or no responsibility as compared with the head of a department. In district high schools the senior assistant should be in a position to do a great deal of supervision work in consultation with the headmaster. It is highly necessary that there should be more time given to supervision than the headmaster can personally give. I think nothing is so desirable in teachers in a district high school than the knowledge of primaryschool work. They understand the pupil, know what he is learning, and can begin where he left off without any misconceptions. I did not know that the grouping of several city schools had been tried in Dunedin and had been abandoned. I think that the cost of primary education should be a charge on the consolidated revenue. I do not propose to hand over the control of the Inspectors to the School Boards. Those Boards would get. their revenue from the Government. Advanced education might be met by local rating, because, at present, advanced education is more or less an extra —a luxury. The Council of Education I propose would be an advisory Board, to the Minister of Education. I would look on the Inspector-General as representing the Department on'the Board. 6. To Mr, Davidson.] The average attendance at the infant department at West Christchurch is about 280, and the infant-mistress is the most highly paid woman teacher in the school. She has under her two certificated teachers and four pupil-teachers. 7. To the Chairman.] I desire to put in a statement about the payment of salaries on a capitation basis, in the hope that it may prove useful to the Commission. [Statement put in.] Frank Thomas Evans examined on oath. (No. 95.) 1. To the Chairman.} 1 am headmaster of the Linwood North School; been so for nearly four years. Have been nearly thirty 7 years in the employ of the North Canterbury Education Board. Was for four or five years assistant at East Christchurch; first assistant, Lyttelton District High School; and for eleven or twelve years cm the staff of the Normal .Training College. My certificate is 81. On behalf of the North Canterbury Teachers' Institute I wish to place before the Commissioners the follow-ing recommendations concerning the syllabus of work in our primary schools. There is a consensus of opinion amongst the experienced teachers of North Canterbury that, while admirable in many ways, the syllabus is so extensive and deals with so many subjects that the essentials receive the intensive teaching that they should. A few years back our primary system lacked to a great extent hand-and-eye training, but we feel that to-day we have gone to the other extreme, and insist on too much handwork from our primaryschool pupils. Our scholars are not so self-reliant as they were years ago—not so mentally alert— and we feel that if the handwork were reduced more time could be profitably spent on the fundamentals. We are of opinion that the arithmetic should be more evenly distributed over the standards, and that the work in Standard II and Standard V should be reduced; that the metric system be omitted from the syllabus as having little utility to the pupils in after-life, and that interest sums be made more simple and more in accord with every-day usage. The mechanical work in our schools is not what it should be, owing partly to the want of time for sufficient abstract counting in the earlier stages. We would recommend that more mechanical work should be done in the lower standards, and less work in problems—sums that the children often work out by analogy and iteration rather than by reasoning. We think that the mathematical geography might be reduced considerably, much of it being beyond the understanding of primaryschool pupils. Drawing in our upper standards demands too much. The drawing for Junior National Scholarships cannot be covered in school hours, and much time has to be devoted after school to overtake the work. Some of our country teachers have been prevented from entering their brightest pupils for scholarships owing to inability to cope with the extended programme. We feel that too much time is devoted to woodwork by the lads in our upper standards. The
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work is quite apart from the primary school, and is not co-ordinated in any way with the rest of the school-work. We do not think that the training acquired by the lads is commensurate with #fee time it takes out of the school year. We would recommend that no lads below Standard VI be required to attend woodwork classes. We are unanimously of the opinion that scholarships at present- existing be abolished in favour of a system that would ensure secondary education for ■ the most deserving, and not for those who are fortunate enough to receive coaching in addition to their ordinary school-work. We would suggest that Standard VI Proficiency Examination be the basis on which Inspectors, after consultation with the head teacher, select the best talented pupils as likely to profit by a secondary course. We strongly recommend that our schools should be much better equipped with apparatus than many of them are. It is not the " what " but the " how " that makes our teaching efficient, and outside the barest essentials there is little at hand to help the pupils. We would ask (1) that cardboard-money coins be supplied to schools for Standard II and Standard 111 children; (2) that weights and measures and scales be supplied for Standard IV; (3) that models, as cube, prism, cylinder, &c, be supplied for Standard VI; (4) that lantern-slides on Course A geography- and on natural phenomena be supplied, so that schools so disposed may vitalize these subjects by means of a magic-lantern. I would like also to bring up the question of physical training in our schools. It is a matter that I feel very strongly on, and 1, with many teachers in this district, feel that we do not train our pupils in physical education as we should; we cannot devote the time. Our syllabus rightly provides that it should be compulsory, but by the time we have taken all the subjects we have to cover we simply cannot give more than half an hour per week to physical training. By the time for the next physical-training lesson arrives the value of the first lesson is gone. I contend that we should train the body- as well as the mind, and that not less than half an hour per day 7 should be devoted to physical training. We do take breathing exercises daily for a few minutes, but we do not do what we could with physical education. 2. To Mr. Wells.] I do not think that after-hour work is absolutely- necessary in regard to scholarships if the scholarship work is based on Standard VI work; under present conditions I think it, is necessary in schools that are not so well staffed as the bigger schools ; it is not necessary in the bigger schools. The practice prevailed in Christchurch of coaching after school hours, but Ido not think that it is common. I think that the amount of handwork might be reasonably cut down. There is not the same mentality shown by the pupils in the upper standards as there was years ago, and though the amount of handwork done is not wholly the cause, it has something to do with it. 3. To Mr. Poland.] I do not think that half an hour pier day could be devoted to physical training under the present syllabus; it could be done outside of school hours, but there is an objection to increasing the hours of little children —our little children are too long at school now —four to four hours and a half. It could be done with the pupils in Standards IV, V, and VI, and it would not hurt the teachers. The small children couid receive extra physical training within school hours. 4. To Mr. Kirk.} There is not sufficient concentration on the part of Standards V and VI, and I consider that it is infinitely more difficult to teach them than it was ten or fifteen years ago ;it is more difficult to arouse their mental activity. I attribute this partly to the constant changing from one subject to another. Our children also have too much done for them; they arc too much spoon-fed. I do not think that it should be compulsory to devote so many hours to handwork subjects. We have to devote the time whether the teaching is profitable or not in order to get capitation. Woodwork might be cut out of the primary-school syllabus altogether. It trains the observation and the hand and the eye, but we can do that equally well with other subjects. History is well taught in most schools; one hour to one hour and a half is rriyen—mostly set lessons amplified by reading. History should be a compulsory subject; it has a high value if properly taught. We have no library at our school; we are just starting one. The School Journal was very excellent indeed when it first came out, but it is too scientific and uninteresting now. 5. To the Chairman.} For the ordinary boy or girl I do not think it is necessary to give instruction in the metric system; it might, be taught in Standard VII, but until the Board of Trade at Home introduces it T do not think we should bother them. Boys and girls find the system most difficult; they cannot gr-nsp it at all. T indorse the statement that "the essentials have not a fair chance under the time allowed them under the present syllabus." Frederick James Alley examined on oath. (No. 96.) 1. 7 7 0 the. Chairman.] 1 am headmaster of the Wharenui School; I have been there five years. 1 have been under this Board for thirty-one years, and was headmaster of the Amberley District High School for nine years. Tarn appearing before the Commission as one of the representatives of the branch of the Educational Institute. T desire to put in a printed statement entitled "Education Problems: The Teacher and his Work : Some Needed Reforms," written by myself. [Statement put in.] 1 would like to say a few words on the relative powers of Boards of Education and School Committees, particularly the smaller type of School Committee. One problem is how to make the country school, and especially the small country school, more attractive from the teachers' point of view. Whatever is bad for the teacher in these smaller schools, it necessarily follows, is bad for the child. We often hear it argued that the School Committee system brings about a great deal of interest in the cause of education, yet in the North Canterbury District at the present time about twenty-two schools out of a total of 212 have failed to elect Committees. I have known a case where a single householder and an owl elected a Committee for a year! The interest taken in education by the School Committees in the smaller districts is not
F. J. ALLEY.]
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what it is represented to be. I have been in four country schools—two of them sole-charge schools. During the twenty years of their existence there was nothing to show that there had been any •"great amount of local effort; there were no pictures on the walls and no library. In country districts I have lived in there have been intrigues in connection with the School Committees, not on educational questions or questions connected with the teacher, but simply on paltry local grounds of parish-pump politics. That is one of the causes that has made country schools unpopular from the teachers' standpoint. School Committees in large towns are very necessary institutions; on them we have nine members representing five hundred and six hundred householders. That is one thing; but it is quite another thing when five or six householders nominate the same number of Committeemen and give them official legal standing and put them in charge of young teachers from the town. Many of these teachers are ladies fresh from the training college —many without any experience of country life—-and it puts them into a kind of servitude, and they feel that their masters are very often out of sympathy with their aspirations, their work, and their needs. This Commission does not hear, and the Boards do not hear in a great many cases, of the grievances of the teachers in the country, and the teacher in the country in New Zealand is a lady teacher. These teachers do not ventilate their grievances before the Board because they know that the only satisfaction they will get is to be told that they must live on good terms with the School Committee. In one case I know of the Chairman of a Committee of five harassed and worried two or three lady teachers to such an extent that the school had to be closed, and the secretary of the Board could not recommend another lady teacher because of the harassing ways of the Chairman of the Committee. This quarrelsome Chairman and one of his Committeemen on one occasion had a dispute and adjourned to the Amberley Domain, and in the fight that ensued the Chairman had his arm broken. For six or seven years that Chairman was in charge of three different lady teachers, and though within a radius of a dozen miles there were people capable of fathering these young teachers, the fact that the Committee existed as the legally recognized body having charge of the teachers deprived them of better treatment. In the interests of the teachers and of all concerned these smaller bodies should be combined in such a way as to give to the people of these districts a larger voice in the management of these schools. Small Committees have a disproportionate voting-power in the election of members of the Board. These smaller Committtees should be combined into groups according to geographical position and community of interest. It would not be difficult to throw half a dozen schools into one body which would be a training-ground for our Boards of Education, and a better class of people would be elected to them. On one occasion when I wanted a Committee to obtain the services of a truant officer a member of the Committee brought down the house by remarking, "We won't have policemen coming round here." A larger body, knowing all the facts of the case, would not be so sensitive to local pressure. In the matter of cleaning schools, I know for a fact that many country teachers cannot get their schools properly cleaned. One lady teacher told me that when she reaches school the caretaker is usually dusting, and she has to swallow the dust, The reason why she did not complain to the Committee is that in all probability the caretaker was the wife of a Committeeman, or a relative or friend. I have not come with a scheme for smashing up the Board of Education. I think the Board should be left intact. Possibly with the completion of■the main trunk, railways we could combine with the smaller centres. I think it would be a mistake to divide the South Island into two education districts. I think that School Committees should be elected trienially, the same as the members of Boards are elected. If householders were given a vote for members of the Board you would intensify local interest in educational matters. I wish to say a few words on centralization —the question of centralizing some of the smallet schools, and bringing them into touch with the larger ones. I was head teacher or sole teacher during nineteen years of four country schools. In two of these districts there are at present two, at least, small country schools —Russell's Flat and Broomfield —where the conveying of about thirty-five children to adjacent schools would not raise the grades of the larger schools, which, owing to decreased attendance, have ample accommodation. The salaries of teachers in the larger schools would not be affected by the additional pupils; but two teachers in two small country schools would be displaced. The total saving would work out at about £7 10s. per head of the roll number. It would be possible, therefore, to subsidize parents for conveying children up to £5 a head and still have a safe margin to the good. The most popular and workable method would be to allow parents to select their own method of getting the children to school, whether by bicycle, horse, or vehicle, either individually or collectively. In both cases given above the roads are excellent. The increased conveniences, such as a daily mail, newspapers, and household necessaries, would help to reconcile parents to the loss of their local school. The maintenance and repair of two small schools would be unnecessary, and three days a year of examination and inspection would be saved. It should be noted that the easiest school to manage, from the teacher's standpoint, is the two-teacher school with an average of from thirty-six to fifty children. Twenty years ago I taught in a sole-charge school with an average attendance of about forty, and the salary was under ,£l5O. Nowadays two teachers, master and mistress, earn a combined salary of £300 a year. This is exactly the type of school where at no extra cost the attendance ought to be raised. Where roads are good, distances not too great, where the moral welfare of the children was properly safeguarded, parents would not offer serious opposition if they were treated fairly on a capitation basis. Regulations relating to attendance and exemption in illness could easily be made. Many of these larger schools depend on one or two large families, among which would be children accustomed to horses. Motor traction will, no doubt, in the future affect this question, both by rail and road. Mount Grey Downs School is about a mile from Sefton. The roll number last year was twenty-five; the average attendance twenty-one. Half of these twentyfive would be not more than two miles from the central school, with a good dry-hill road. Total cost of maintenance, £162 7s. 3d. (1911). The additional children would raise Sefton to Grade 5
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392
[P. J. ALLEY.
(81-120), necessitating the appointment of a pupil-teacher, and raising the salaries of master an 4 mistress by about £40 (total additional cost £100, maximum). No increased accommodation would be needed. This leaves about £60 for conveyance of children (twelve). One school and teacher's residence would thus be rendered unnecessary—assets to the good. I do not feel very strongly on the question of centralization, but 1 was asked to speak on the subject. However, it is a very simple 'matter in the few cases I have cited. 2. To Mr. Kirk.] I subscribe ver} 7 largely to the statement contained in a pamphlet entitled " Something Wrong Somewhere " —" One tiling seems very clear, and it is this : our children seem to lose their almost divine gift of imagination not long after they enter our schools. A few short years and the bright, imaginative, and talkative child of five is converted into the stilted, irresponsive, and circumscribed schoolboy whom we know so well. There must be something wrong somewhere, for such a development is quite unnatural and contrary to the true ideal of education." 3. To Mr. Thomson.] I cannot say 7 if it is usual throughout the North Canterbur3 7 District for schools to be disinfected. I know that in the district I referred to very little disinfecting is done; the caretaker had no time, and would rather raise the dust. James McCullough examined on oath. (No. 97.) 1. To the Chairman.] I am Chairman of the North Canterbury- School Committees' Association. For about five years I have been connected with the West Christchurch District High School. I have been Chairman of the association for eighteen months. The association delegated three of us to lay our views before you. I wish first of all to refer to the matter of fuel supplied to the schools. At the West Christchurch District High School it costs close on £40 a year for fuel, and this gives us on an average 4 per cent, of heat, according to our headmaster. The temperatures have been taken during last winter and the present winter, and we find that the children's bodies are responsible for practically fhe same amount of heat as the fuel which we pay £40 a year for. This is the headmaster's memorandum to me : " Dear Sir, —Without giving too many figures relating to temperatures the matter may be simply put, thus : On cold days from 8.30 to 11.30 a.m. we can only obtain with fires a rise in temperature of 8° Fahrenheit when the children are in the room, and 4° if the fire is alight and the children are not in (say, at cooking). This costs £30 to £40 per year. On cold days we cannot get the temperature above 48°. All authorities say it should be 55° to 60°.—Jno. Caughley." These temperatures are taken in various parts of the school, in conjunction with the temperature in the porch outside the school. So you will-see the heat obtained is not commensurate with the expenditure on fuel. I have a scheme which I should like to put before you. We have a school in Christchurch, run by the Methodist denomination, where there have been installed two American stoves. They use coke instead of coal. These two stoves are in a room 66 ft. by 36 ft. and about 18 ft. high. The fires are lit about an hour before the school is required. Another half-bucket of coke is put on just prior to the school opening, and that is all the fuel that is needed for the heating of that large room. The children get a degree of heat from these stoves which it would be impossible to get from ordinary fires. The two stoves combined consume three buckets of coke during the afternoon. I think this system of heating a far better one than ours. I was given to understand by the trustees of the institution that the cost of each of these stoves was £2. They stand about 30 in. high, and measure 15 in. across. A bucket of coke practically fills one. The pipe they use is a cast-iron pipe instead of a galvanized one. This retains the heat considerablylonger than any ordinary piping would do. The whole thing has cost these people, who have had to put the piping through thick stone walls, £13 13s. for labour, material, and everything. It would not cost nearly so much to put it into our schools. The £40 a year that we are spending on fuel at my own school might, hy the installation of these stoves, be reduced to one-third, and that would relieve a considerable sum of money for other things. On the subject of schoollighting I desire to say that in the past school-lighting has not been in the interests of the eyesight of the children or the teachers. I believe a better system of lighting can be devised. The best lighting, I believe, would be from the roof, rather than from windows in the walls. We had a lecture on eyesight given to us recently by a Mr. Suckling, who showed conclusively that numbers of the children who were considered dullards were dullards because of their eyesight. In connection with the medical inspection of children which the Government are introducing, I certainly think attention should be paid to the children's eyesight. With regard to school excursions, this is a vexed question. On many occasions the Railway Department will only grant a train on certain conditions. We have appealed to the Railway Department for permission to sell tickets in order to assist the schools, but we have been unable to obtain this privilege. We ask that you should try to induce the Railway Department to at least run these trains at actual cost, and allow a privilege with regard to the tickets, so that anything over a certain amount might go to the school. We have a complaint that one school has to pay a deposit before a train will be allowed, while another School Committee has simply to go to the Railway Department, and is told that the train w 7 ill be there for them and no deposit is asked. There are not many schools that are able to put down £5 or £10 for the purpose of guaranteeing that they will use a particular train on a given day. 2. To Mr. Davidson.] I understand the incidental allowances to School Committees are greater in North Canterbury than in any other district. We still find them insufficient. I do not suggest that the lighting of the rooms should be wholly from the roof, but I believe that in some rooms we could get better results if the light were got from the roof. 3. To Mr. Hogben.] I am not aware that nearly every medical authority in the world condemns lighting from the -oof on account of injury to the eyesight.
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4. To the Chairman.} The School Committees' Association object to the sending of a single name to a School Committee. A Committee naturally w r ants to have some voice in the selection of a teacher. If the Committees were to have no voice there would be no use in sending more than one name. The North Canterbury Board have been very good up to the present, as far as my knowledge goes, in forwarding at least two, or three or four, names, for the Committee's choice. Of course, they have put them in order of preference. My Committee has repeatedly taken the first man, but not always so. Our present headmaster at West Christchurch was the fourth on the list. Prior to that we may have taken a second or third name, but not a fourth, I think. James Weir examined on oath. (No. 98.) 1. To the Chairman.] I am a member of the School Committees' Association of North Canterbury, and Chairman of the Heathcote Valley School Committee. I have been Chairman for seven years. For thirty years I have been concerned with educational matters in this district. I have prepared the following statement : The embarrassing position of School Committees generally in the North Canterbury District is not conducive to widespread interest in primary educational matters. The average capitation grant distributed by the local Board of Education is the highest in the Dominion, and yet in every part of this widespread district Committees, if at all enthusiatic, have to assume the role of managing directors of variety entertainments, &c, for the purpose of augmenting the quarterly pittance received. A very substantial aggregate of money is collected from the efforts referred to, but probably one-quarter of the total is absorbed by management-expenses, such as printing, advertising, and the like. Section 94 of the Education Act, 1904, provides 100-per-cent. subsidy for all voluntary donations to high schools or' district high schools, and it is claimed that the same incentive concession should be extended to, primary schools for specific improvements. The School Committees' Association urge exhaustive investigation of the claim for equality with the monetary status of high schools, and release from the unenviable position of having to bolster up a so-called free education s} 7 stem by means of unrecompensed caretakers' work and overdue tradesmen's accounts for necessary school requisites. There is among School Committees indignant resentment against free books being forced unasked for into primary-school-children's hands. From a hygienic point of view the gift is so revoltingly retrograding as to emphasize the suggestion that the Education Department is annually spending thousands of pounds disseminating microbes. If the Department must be generous, why not be practical and spend the money for writing-material and drawing-books? If you wish to see a specimen of these free books I have here a small parcel, which, however, I would recommend you not to touch [produced]. An actual necessity is a modern system of ventilation of classrooms. School playgrounds are far too small, and seldom have any educational or elevating influence on pupils. These matters, sir, are brought forward with an honest desire that improvement may be effected. 2. To Mr. Davidson.] Within the last three years my Committee raised £124 gross, £95 net, to supplement the allow-ance from the Board. As to free school-books and the spread of disease, that is a very large question. Personally I have no sympathy with the libraries from a hygienic point of view, but the books can be fumigated, and possibly they are in many cases. They ought to be fumigated regularly. 3. To Mr. Poland.] I have not seen the Somerfield School. We have a new infant-room at Heathcote Valley, and the ventilation is as near perfection as can be got. Our contention is that teachers and pupils in the older class of buildings should not have to continue to.work in the same atmosphere until the building collapses when it is possible gradually to improve the ventilation of school-rooms. 4. To Mr. Kirk.] I understand that at least one School Committee here has a telephone. It is a convenience for a School Committee to have a telephone: it economizes time. I will say it is a necessity, to keep pace with modern times. I do not know of any School Committees here that have paid secretaries, but I have heard of it. I do not approve of a' secretary beingpaid if voluntary help can be obtained. Ido not know of any Committee in this district spending part of its grant in prizes, but I have heard of it. 5. f suppose these School Committees that have the telephone, and pay- for prizes and the secretary out of their fund, are not the quietest when the question of payment to School Committees is being considered? —Possibly not. If three Committees out of the 212 do this it still leaves a lot of hard-ups. I saw from the papers that a Committee received a grant for a house for the caretaker. I have heard whispers of a Committee making application to the Board for extra consideration in the matter of the caretaker's salary, and have also heard explanations from the other side. 6. To Mr. Pirani.] We have never made representations to the Education Board in regard to special works in connection with the school, such as lighting and heating. I think it is the duty of the School Committee to make representations if they think they have a grievance. I have no grievance of that sort. 7. To Mr. Davidson.] The very dirty books I produced were used in the homes of the children. I understand that the taking home of school-books is now forbidden, but eventually the schoolbooks will reach the same condition. 8. To Mr. Thomson.] We have the schools disinfected, more or less, daily, because a disinfectant is used in sweeping the floors. I suppose they are only fumigated when there is some local epidemic. They should be fumigated at least every year. I suppose 10s. would pay for fumigation of an ordinary school. 9. To the Chairman.] The Act specially permits of a paid secretary being engaged when a member of a School Committee will not do the work. I believe the system of election of member*
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[J. WEIR.
of Education Boards by means of wards has been a success in this district, If only a single name is sent on, to a School Committee it is a farce sending it on at all. I have never known a Committee go down to the fourth name during the past thirty years, but they may have taken a second. The Committee is generally willing to be guided, and to admit that the Inspectors should know the qualifications of a teacher. Ernest Herbert Andrews examined on oath. (No. 99.) 1. To the Chairman.] 1 am one of the representatives of the North Canterbury School Committees' Association. I am secretary- of that association, and have been so for just over a year. I have been for nearly two years a member and secretary of the St. Albans School Committee, and for nearly twenty years I was a teacher. I should like to say, regarding the questions asked my predecessors, that the St. Albans School Committee has no telephone. Our allowances, we find, are used up almost entirely during the winter months in buying coal and paying the caretaker. The Committee, as far as I know, has never paid a secretary. The following is the statement I have prepared : As a representative of the North Canterbury School Committee's Association, I have been asked to place before you my view 7 s on the syllabus as provided for in our primary schools. 1 have had a long experience as a primary- arid secondary-school teacher in New Zealand, and of late years in the commercial life of this city, and at the outset let me say that this experience leads me to the conclusion that the present syllabus is not practical enough. There seems to me no doubt that the syllabus is overcrowded with a goodly number of subjects of little practical use, or at least with subjects that are not treated in a manner to be of real practical use. Take, for instance the subjects known as the three Rs, and the corrollary subjects which may be well classified under that heading. As a teacher 1 was forced to the conclusion that a great deal was expected to be taught in these subjects that probably not 5 per cent, of the learners would ever put to practical use. As a business man I have proved it to be so. 1 have taken boys and girls into different departments of my business, and come into touch with numbers of boys and girls in other employers' businesses who have a deplorable lack of knowledge of the English language —ordinary commercial arithmetic, commercial geography, and such subjects, and yet these subjects are included in the syllabus, and these boys and girls have passed the Sixth Standard—and, indeed, often spent a longer or shorter period in a secondary school. According to employers this state of affairs is common, and bears out my contention that too much is attempted, and, therefore, thoroughness is forfeited. Believing as 1 do that the vast majority of New Zealand boys have to earn their living either in commerce or on the land, and that also a great number of girls nowadays will spend years of their life in the commercial world, while practically all of them sooner or later settle down to the domestic life, 1 contend that a good practical commercial course with agriculture for boys and domestic training for girls would be far more helpful in fitting our children for the battle of life than the subjects as provided for in our present syllabus. By a "commercial course" I mean such subjects as might be classed under the three Rs —reading (including the English subjects, spelling, composition, and grammar), writing, and arithmetic, w 7 ith a practical course of commercial geography, and the main facts of our colonial history. To such a course, as I said before, f would add agriculture and physical training and swimming, 'these subjects, 1 repeat, should be taught on practical lines, not crammed up for examination merely; not taught, if I may use the expression, simply through the ear, but rather as far as possible by actual demonstration, by seeing and handling. And here let me say in passing that in spite of what lias been done to lessen the amount of examination in our schools, I must agree with the many who are of opinion that there is still too much examination. So long as the red rag of examination is dangled before the eyes of the teachers, so longwill the system of cram continue. We hear much of Germany's flaunted system of education — that their whole aim is thoroughness, but the end of all their efforts is the examination. Failure means disgrace and often penalty. But I have yet to learn that examination, or necessarily success in examination, spells thoroughness. And what is Germany doing for itself? Why, the result of this system is stamping out the joy of the young life. Study is long—there is little time for play, and life is a dread to many a German child. I am of opinion that Germany will in generations to come reap a bitter reward of her present bid for the so-called thoroughness they expect to obtain by means of cramming' and examinations. But to return to the subjects before enumerated. First, the English subjects — reading, spelling, composition, and grammar: I would advocate a wide range in reading, for by that means —delightful to most children —is a great fund of general knowledge gained, and will always be gained if a love of reading is inculcated in the young. Good spelling will nearly always be found with good readers, and wide reading will do more than anything to assist composition. The composition should include, however, a comprehensive knowledge of how to begin and end ordinary- and business letters, with the power of expressing ideas clearly and concisely. As regards grammar, I believe, and have always believed, that it was a fatal step when formal grammar was relegated to the background. Not that we want a lot of complex rules, &c, but a knowledge of what is correct and the reasons therefor is absolutely necessary to correct expression. It was evidently assumed that the imitative faculty of the child was sufficient to provide correct expression. I admit the instinct, if I may call it so, of imitation in the child, and, no doubt, correct expression would become as it were part of its nature, if it heard nothing else; but, unfortunately, in these days of slang and loose expressions, the imitative power is working in the wrong direction, and children are growing into adults without the least idea that their method of expression often makes the flesh creep— they have been accustomed to it from childhood, and bad grammar is the rule rather than the exception amongst our young people. Arithmetic : I would advocate making the requirements in this subject a good practical commercial course, with much more attention to mental exercise.
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Abstract rules and problems might well be left alone, and the time given to securing accuracy sound knowledge of the rules that come into more common use on the farm or in ordinary business life. Writing : 1 must say that my experience of the writing does not agree with many busines men who complain so bitterly about it. I consider the writing on the whole very good. True, the boy when lie comes first into an office shows a bold schoolboy hand, probably nothing much to look at at the time; but his hand is not set, and in course of time develops into quite passable handwriting. History : I have stated before that I would include a course of colonial liistory in the syllabus—indeed, I would add something of English history, too. Since history lias been made an optional subject, it is almost banished from the schools, and it is deplorable how little the colonial child or youth knows of the past life and even the momentous events of our country. 1 am of opinion that it is decidedly to the disadvantage of the child, and of the future of our land, that the knowledge of its history is so meagre —our generations to come will have no landmarks, as it were, to guide them in directing the future of their land; no knowledge to enable them to avoid past errors and pitfalls, or to profit by past successes. But history need not be made the irksome subject as of old; there is no call for a mass of dates, little advantage to be gained from the study of long lines of kings names and pedigrees, or the number of their wives; neither need we glory unduly in bloody victories, or murderous plots; but a well-thought-out course showing the development of our old land and our new, with some knowledge of the great minds that have helped in the betterment of the conditions of life —such a course, I contend, would be immensely beneficial, and, judiciously treated, it would lose all semblance of a task, and be looked upon as delightful recreation, as story hour. 1 would suggest that it should be taught mainly through the School Journal, which as a periodic publication lends itself particularly to this class of work. Geography :To a considerable extent my remarks on history apply to geography. Make it a practical course, with the simpler portions of commercial geography —not masses of figures as regards population, exports, &c, but a good knowledge of the productiveness of the various parts of the earth, with more detailed treatment as regards our own country —the chief trade routes, our great ports and markets, &c. And here, again, the School Journal could be used to great advantage. In agriculture, again, I advocate a practical course. Up to the present we have had too much theory. I feel that this subject must be taught by practical teachers-—the majority of our teachers who to-day teach agriculture are not practical —and in many of the country districts the scholars know more about the practical side of this subject than the teacher. 1 speak feelingly here, for I lived in a district where the land was so cut up, but withal so rich, that many a family was making a living, and a pretty fair living, off an acre or two. In practical culture the majority of these children could have taught me. With all this advocacy of a practical course let me not be misunderstood. The course must be sufficiently scientific to make it easy of application to such local conditions as a boy might find himself in. Physical training should, in my humble opinion, tend towards health exercises rather than military drill, as inclined to do at present. The military drill is not in many ways suited to young children Let it be understood that lam not here introducing the merits or demerits of military training—either militarism or antimilitarisni —but am looking at the question in the broad light of its value to the physical development of the child. I regret that of late years gymnasiums have been allowed to fall into disrepair and consequently disuse. Department and Board have refused money for their upkeep, and new schools are erected without a thought of such a thing. 1 am of opinion that for real health-giving exercise and physical development a good gymnasium, properly used, is essential to our schools. I would make swimming a compulsory subject both for boys and girls. Not only from its practical utility, but from the point of view of health and physical development, it takes a foremost place. Much more encouragement should be given in the erection and upkeep of suitable swimming-baths in the schools. In conclusion, let me add that most of the so-called technical and manual subjects might well be eliminated from our primary syllabus. When the child has finished a thorough and practical primary course somewhat on the lines I have suggested above, and he is beginning to take his place in the world as a wage-earner, then is the time to consider his technical education. 1 believe a vast amount of overlapping and consequent waste of money is taking place in the primary, secondary, and technical classes. I repeat that when he has finished his primary course, then should come the technical course—-when he has some idea of his bent and his intentions; and with this in view I am a strong advocate of compulsory attendance at continuation classes. I believe that this is a big feature in the solution of a great difficulty —the difficulty of keeping youths in touch with education after they leave the primary school. Vast numbers who leave school forget half they have learned. At this stage the mind is not matured —their ordinary life calls for little exercise of the knowledge they have gained; they go to their daily work in factory or in office, and beyond the restricted knowledge they require for this, their especial work, no effort is made. At night they seek the company of their fellows in the streets, at the pictures, and so on, but seldom at the fount of real knowledge. To my mind, the remedy of this waste of good material, and the advancement of our young people to a higher state of culture, and thoroughness, and of fitness for the competitions of to-day between man and man and country and country —1 say the remedy for this serious waste lies largely in the institution of judiciously compulsory attendance at continuation classes. 2. To Mr. Davidson.] I relinquished my last appointment as a teacher about five years ago. I was then headmaster of a primary school in Nelson. I think the present syllabus overcrowded, not perhaps so much in the way of subjects as in the amount that is expected in the subjects. I would not delete reading, spelling, recitation, writing, nor composition. Arithmetic I regard as essential, but a good deal might be cut out of the course. I would reduce the quantity and make the course more practical, and would give more attention to mental arithmetic. I think geography should be made more a commercial course. If history is not an optional subject now
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it has been made compulsory since my time. History is a reading subject, and you thus kill two birds with one stone. It is a fact that whether or not the work be on practical lines as I suggest depends largely upon the teacher and the Inspector, but I think the teacher's choice is circumscribed to some extent. I understand there are certain subjects and a certain amount of work laid down to be covered in those subjects. For instance, if the teacher cut out some of the rules of arithmetic, is it likely the Inspector would agree 1 I think a great deal of the mischief arises from want of uniformity in the interpretation of the syllabus. 1 have always advocated the Inspectors being placed under the control of a central body not only on account of interpreting the syllabus, but also with regard to the appointment of teachers. In the appointment of teachers the Boards are inclined to be provincial. There was a time when it was almost impossible for a teacher from outside to get an appointment here. 1 would advocate a Dominion scheme of promotion for teachers. Mrs. Margaret Helen Langford examined on oath. (No. 100.) 1. To the Chairman.] 1 appear as the representative of the Christchurch Creche and Kindergarten Association. The association desires to point out to the Education Commission the importance of kindergarten work, and to urge on the ijovernment the desirability of giving it greater prominence in the education system of New Zealand. In each of the large centres those who have realized its importance have established free kindergartens. These are maintained by a Government subsidy and by voluntary contributions. These schools are doing a noble work in developing the characters of the pupils, and are materially helping overburdened mothers in the training of their little ones. In the erection of massive buildings much care is always bestowed on the foundation, and if this be necessary in mere earthly structures how much more essential that a good foundation be laid in the hearts and minds of our scholars. The kindergarten system was founded by Frederick Froebel, and is based on thoroughly scientific principles, and on a perfect knowledge of child nature. By watching children at their play he was enabled to organize a series of games by means of which every part of the child's nature is developed. He regarded every little child as "a thought of God," and his motto was " Let us live for our children." In a kindergarten (gardens of children) all the units are taught to work individually and collectively. They are taught lessons of motherliness, comradeship, citizenship, &c, and one has only to visit a well-managed kindergarten to realize how pleasantly they learn. The question may be asked " How will this affect the after-education of the child? " If it can be shown that after-education is hindered or rendered more difficult by it, then clearly all efforts to introduce it should cease; but when it can be shown that all the work of the kindergarten is laying a more solid foundation on which all after-education may be built, and rendering the work of both teachers and pupils easier, then it behoves us to give this foreign system a hearty national welcome, and work it for all it is worth. This is the conviction on which we now speak, and we would therefore urge the Government to take the whole matter in hand. We are anxious that examinations be held by the Government annually, and Froebel certificates be issued to successful candidates. So much has been said from the child's standpoint, but now we would urge that greater consideration be shown to this work for the benefit it would be to the nation. In such schools, girls, who will be the mothers of the future, are taught how to manage and train their children. So that this benefit may be ensured to all we would urge that a creche and kindergarten be established in connection with every technical school, and that a kindergarten be attached to every infant department. In all the kindergartens we would plead for specially qualified kindergartners to be put in charge, and we would urge that they have the care of all children between the ages of four and six, after which they would be drafted to the infant school. As this work is specially a woman's work, we would suggest that a lady Inspector be appointed examiner. She would not clash with the male Inspectors and their work, but might be under the direct control of the Department. 2. To Mr. Wells.] The head teacher at the St. Albans Kindergarten had a special training in an English school. The one at the Sydenham School was trained by a certificated kindergartner in Wellington, and the one at Phillipstown was trained by a kindergarten teacher here. These head teachers each have several students under their control. The students are moved from school to school so as to get an all-round training. Then, we have four lecturers who teach these students. I think it would be well for any person going in for a teacher's certificate to include kindergarten work, but I would have quite an independent examination for the Froebel certificate. I would have it more on the lines of the London Froebel Society's. If the certificate were issued by the Government it would have more than a local value. 3. To Mr. Kirk.] I mean that the students as they leave the kindergarten should have a certificate. 4. To the Chairman.} I have been a public-school teacher. The fact of having matriculated would not make a person a suitable kindergartner. Teachers not able to do the whole of the work for a D certificate might make excellent kindergartners. We are in communication with the Froebel Societies in the other three large centres with a view to formulating a scheme for affiliation. My association think the time is ripe for the institution of the true Froebel kindergarten as part of the primary-school course. If it is a question of expense, its institution may have to be limited at first to the centres; but f think it a great pity for the children in the country districts to be debarred from this very important part of a training if the money can be afforded at all and if kindergartners can be got to take up the work. I doubt if there are enough properly trained kindergartners in the Dominion to warrant the institution of kindergartens in connection with all the public schools; but I think you could take the infant-mistresses from the country schools and give them some time under well-trained kindergarten instructors. I was mistress of one of the largest infant schools in the Dominion, and I can say without the slightest
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hesitation that the children wrro came to me from a well-managed kindergarten school were infinitely better and more promising pupils than those that had had no previous training. As ""to separating the sexes in our public schools, from experience in a boys' school, a girls' school, an infant school, and a mixed school, I should say that if the supervision is right the mixed school .is better. I think we ought to aim in our schools at having as much of family discipline as possible. I'see no necessity in the lower standards for differentiating in the amount and quality of the instruction given to boys and girls in the lower standards. Some extra arithmetic might be given to boys at the time the girls were doing domestic work or needlework. I think a good deal of the arithmetic given in the upper standards is perhaps beyond what is required from the average girl. Henry Christopher Lane examined on oath. (No. 101.) 1. To the Chairman.] I am Secretary of the North Canterbury Education Board, and have occupied that position for seventeen years; for three years I was assistant secretary. First, may I direct the Commission's attention to the Department's practice of including the expenditure on Inspectors' salaries under the head of administration-expenses. In the opinion of the Board it should not be classed in that way, seeing it is not really administrative expenses. In the Department's report it shows that the North Canterbury percentage for the last three years reached 42. If that very large amount which I have referred to were taken off it would have considerably reduced this percentage. The Board is anxious that the Commission's attention should be directed to that. The next matter I wish to make reference to is the large number of returns which the Board's officers are called upon to make out. You remember that in the Chairman's statement it is mentioned that the Board had no reason to complain of the Department's want of courtesy —that the Board was treated promptly as a general rule. With regard to the extra work thrown on the office, one matter is the abolition of passes below Standard VI having made it necessary for persons later on —perhaps five or ten years after leaving school —to apply to the Board for certificates. Very often the first application does not tell the year the person was at school. We have to write and make inquiries. When we have particulars the matter is submitted to the Inspector, who gives his certificate accordingly. The Board is of opinion that as a pupil passes into a higher standard with the approval of the Inspector such promotion should be recorded, and should constitute sufficient evidence for entrance into the Public Service. The applications are becoming more numerous, and the number of those applications from children who passed out of the school before passing Standard VI will tremendously increase in the next few years. The Board feels that the work entailed on the office is unnecessary. Another direction in wdrich the Department's regulations seem to give unnecessary trouble is with regard to the provision affecting the method of paying sewing-mistresses. At present we have small schools in charge of a male teacher, so a sewing-teacher is appointed, and she is paid on the average attendance. The form has to be sent to the teacher to be filled up, and the Board has to submit this to the Department. This formality has reference to the payment of from £6 to £9 a year. The Board thinks the old practice of fixing the salary should do, and that the smallest payment should be for £8 and the full payment should run up to £12. We feel that the number of annual returns required by the Department should be reduced as far as possible and kept within reasonable limits. The figures in Return No. 2 appear in the Board's annual report. The return regarding the number in every school for respective years took two officers nearly a fortnight to do. There are between sixty and seventy different forms, departmental, in use at the present time. It is not clear to the Board why the Department, if the Board has provided writing-paper, should compel the School Committees to spend anything at all on it. Of the 210 Committees, five or six express willingness to fall in with the arrangement. The teachers' burdens are not so heavy as the burden placed on the staff of the Education Board. For two or three months we are ground under the returns which require to be made up, and if some relief could be given we should be gratified. We recognize that in view of the new matters which the Department is taking up a large amount of extra work is really unavoidable. We have to issue a large number of free passes to teachers, and keep the run of them. The correspondence has increased enormously of late years in connection with several matters, and officers of the Department should realize that any unnecessary work should be cut down. With regard to the issue of new regulations generally, oh one or two occasions the Board has felt it incumbent upon it to protest against the insufficient notice given. In its report for 1910 it protested in this matter, and referred to the Regulations for Staffs and Salaries of the 22nd December, 1909, which were put into operation immediately. A portion of the 1911 new regulations affecting staff, &c, were issued at an unfortunate time of the year. In, January of this year, for instance, we received notice of new regulations with regard mainly to the classification of teachers, and we think these could have been modified and some of them made optional. With regard to the Board's power to increase schools' staffs, I think yesterday Mr. Hogben pointed out that schoolteachers' salaries and staffs were guarded for almost five years. It takes three years to reduce the grade of a school and two years before the salaries are reduced, and the Board thinks that thus there is an amount of money running away, and we have cases where the number has gone down from thirty-six to twenty-six. If the Board had power it would have transferred the mistress and saved £90 a year straight off. While the onus of giving teachers notice falls on the Board, it is not always clear wdiether, under the regulations, the reduction of the staff is imminent. So the Board is often powerless. Incidental expenses to School Committees :In this district the allowances made by the Board are the highest in the Dominion, and for this last year the rate for all Committees taken together reached 7s. Id., whereas the Department's minimum was fixed at ss. 6d. The Board has looked through the expenses of the Committees, and the opinion forced upon members generally is that it is a matter of management that is at the bottom of
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the trouble of some of the School Committees, and the caretaker's salary takes up from 50 to 70 per cent, of the whole sum received by them, and the Board submits that a minimum should be tixed. With regard to water-service : While the Department requires the whole of the waterservice to be paid for by the Committee, the Board's practice is actually to charge half. Under the. regulations, too strictly interpreted, all repairs, no matter how trivial, unless caused by Vvilful damage, "have to be paid for by the Board. The Board feels that this is a great mistake. In its own regulations, the Committees were called upon to attend to small matters by way of repairs, and the Committees saw to them out of the allowance paid by the Board. Under the regulations now the Committees can go to the Board for anything unless the Board can show there has been wilful damage or carelessness. The Board would like to have this clause altered. In 1909 the Department omitted to pay over the rebuilding grant. With regard to free books, the Board is strongly of the same opinion as expressed by the School Committees' Association this afternoon. In the opinion of the Board there is no general expressed wish that the parents should be relieved of the cost of the books used b}' the children, and parents would prefer to buy their own books. The Government would have been well advised had the expenditure not been undertaken. With regard to probationers, in the Chairman's statement yesterday it was pointed out that the present probationer had been a blow to the teaching service. It is, I believe, the intention of the Department to do away with the pupil-teachers and replace them with probationers. Under the probationer regulations the salaries have been reduced, and one of the drawbacks of the profession is the matter of finance during the first few years of a young person's service. If they are left at the training college they have no reasonable complaint to make. They are to get £20 the first year and £30 the second year. That will prevent many entering the service. Telegraph boys, who need only have a proficiency certificate, get £31 the first year, and £40 or £50 for the second year. If young people are to be encouraged to enter the teaching profession the salaries of the probationers must not remain at the present low point, and to all intents and purposes probationers are pupil-teachers, with two essential differences, hast year out of eighteen probationers that should have entered the Training College eight did not enter at all. Grading and appointment of teachers :In their written statement of evidence the Board's representatives have expressed the opinion that the introduction of a Dominion scheme for the grading and appointment of teachers would b< , 'jfficult of accomplishment and unlikely to work satisfactorily. With the leave of the Commission, I should like to briefly refer to this mattei , , and to touch on several points that appear to confirm the views held by the Board. During the Christchurch sitting of the Commission it has been mentioned that both Auckland and Wanganui have successfully inaugurated schemes for the grading and appointment of their teachers. It may be admitted at once that the chief difficulties standing in the way of a scheme for the whole of the Dominion do not exist in connection with what may be termed an individual Board's scheme. In the case of the latter not only are the teachers fewer in number, but they are all known to the Board's Inspectors, who consequently are in a position to assess and compare their respective qualifications with approximate accuracy. It is, however, entirely different in the case of the larger and more ambitious scheme. In the first place, the very large number of teachers to be classified enormously increases the difficulties of the task; secondly, the fact that the teachers' qualifications are known only to the local Inspectors, and that in each education district the accepted standard of attainment differs more or less, would appear to preclude the possibility of an equitable grading scheme for the Dominion, het us assume, however, that such a scheme had been found practicable. In what way could it be put into operation so as to maintain the efficiency of the schools and satisfy the majority of the teachers 1 It would be necessary for some central body—say, an Appointments Board—to take over and administer the system. It would further be necessary for this Appointments Board to sit continuously throughout the year, the number of vacancies occurring throughout the Dominion each year being very large indeed and covering a variety of work. (There were 128 vacancies in North Canterbury last year, and for this year the number has already reached 88.) For the most part vacancies take place unexpectedly, leaving but a limited, period in which to have them filled. We will further assume that a number of positions have become vacant, and that the Appointments Board is called upon to fill them. On reference to the register of the grading it is found that for many positions a large number of teachers are equal in merit in all respects. At once it is found almost impossible to decide to which teachers the vacancies shall be offered —that is, unless the process is to be purely automatic in its operation, which my Board firmly believes would be the case. Ihis difficulty is intensified by the probability that some of those on the register would not wish to accept any of the appointments offered. Under such circumstances it would become necessary for the Appointments Board to arbitrarily determine the appointments. Such a, system, I venture to think, would after trial find little favour with the majority of teachers. It must be remembered that no grading scheme would increase the number of vacancies, and that even with a perfect system there would always be a certain number of disappointed teachers who felt that their claim had been overlooked. Reverting to the question of a grading scheme by individual Boards, Mr. Inspector Brock has already pointed out that by such a scheme the district so administered becomes, to all intents and purposes, a close corporation, and that applicants from outside would have little hope of success. Further, the natural outcome of such a, system would be that the Education Board would have no opportunity of exercising any discretion in the matter, and the School Committees would also be deprived of all voice in the appointments. While the North Canterbury Board holds strongly that as a general rule its Inspectors are the best judges of the suitability of the respective applicants, it also feels that occasions arise, and not infrequently, in which the knowledge possessed by the Board makes it desirable that some revision, and if necessary some modification of the Inspectors' selection, should be made. The Inspectors themselves, I believe, would indorse this opinion. With regard to the representations
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made as to the disabilities which teachers in districts such as Westland and Grey are under, I feel sure that the North Canterbury Board would welcome any workable scheme by which those disabilities could be removed. But though the removal of them would be of advantage to the teachers themselves, it is not clear that the Westland and Grey Districts would reap any corresponding "benefit as regards the efficiency of their schools. If their, best teachers found congenial employment in North Canterbury it by no means follows that the positions vacated by them in outlying districts would be sought after by North Canterbury teachers. The Board is firmly of opinion that it would be a mistake to take from the School Committees all voice in the appointment of teachers, fn this connection it may be pointed out that by far the larger number of schools are those staffed by two teachers or less. It seems to the Board, as regards these schools particularly, that even in the interests of the teachers themselves it is far better that they should be sure of a welcome from those among whom they are for a time called upon to reside, rather than that the teachers should be forced upon the Committees against their wishes. It may be of interest to the Commission to learn that at the present time there are upwards of fifty teachers in North Canterbury who have entered from other districts, some of them being in receipt of high salaries. With regard to the evidence tendered by Miss Chaplin on behalf of women teachers, it may be mentioned that in this district there are eighty-two female teachers in receipt of salaries ranging from £150 to over £200. 2. To Mr. Davidson.] A Dominion system of grading teachers would not be practicable unless it were mandatory. I do not know what system obtains in Victoria. Under such a scheme it might be a long time before appointments are fixed up. One difficulty would be that, in many cases, a large number of teachers would be nearly equal —for assistant teachers' positions, not for the more responsible positions. The present unsatisfactory condition of the smaller districts should not continue. I am afraid that in many respects amalgamation would not make for efficiency in administration. There was really no need to alter the Board's regulations in regard to pupil-teachers; to modify them would have been sufficient. School Committees, generally speaking, do not provide stationery out of their allowances; they say they have not enough to do so. 3. To Mr. Wells.] I would do away with a good many of the returns. With regard to Return No. 2, I recognize that if it is necessary we should have to do it. In, this district it is customary for the head teacher to forward his returns in duplicate. We are usually- obliged to write to the schools in regard to applications for certificates of the passes of boys who have left school. A great objection to the free books being used as common books is from the point of view of health. Fancy books in their third year after being used by children suffering from some disease! The fewer education districts the easier it would be to keep up a grading scheme. The Board has discouraged canvassing by teachers. 4. To Mr. Kirk.] In regard to the Dominion scheme of grading teachers, there must be knowledge by the grading Inspector of every teacher or you would not get the teachers graded correctly. I believe it is impossible for any person to accurately assess the respective merits and demerits of so many teachers. It is much more convenient to have districts like North Canterbury, Auckland, and Otago, where the Inspectors know all the teachers, and can arrive at a correct conclusion. 5. To Mr. Pirani.] It would be a good thing if teachers could be paid at post-offices : it would reduce the cost of remitting money. It might be advisable to pay teachers at banks without cheques. The adoption of a grading system might tend to reduce the cost, and I think it is the duty of a Board to send the best teacher to a district. 6. To Mr. Davidson.] A lot of money is running away in connection with teachers going from Grade 4 to Grade 3, owing to the delay. 7. To Mr. Hogben.] I do not think that proviso 20 in the Regulations for Staffs and Salaries meets the case referred to. I have not seen the regulations lately : I have a great deal of work to do. 8. To the Chairman.] It would be much easier for the Department's officers in Wellington than for the Education Board to keep conversant with these regulations. 9. To Mr. Hogben.] The new forms entail additional work. The Boards were not consulted in regard to certain regulations until the parliamentary Committee had decided on them. It seems to the Board that the time fefr being consulted would have been before the regulations were drawn up by the Department and submitted to the parliamentary Committee. If the parliamentary Committee ordered the Department to draw up the returns without consulting the Boards, then the fault is with the parliamentary Committee. John Henry Howell examined on oath. (No. 102.) 1. To the Chairman.] I am the Director of the Christchurch Technical College, and I have occupied the position for six years and a half. I was previously science master at the Auckland Grammar School. I was engaged in the work several years before I came to the Dominion. I should like at the outset to express our appreciation of the consideration that has always been shown us by the Department, one matter only excepted—viz., the length of notice given of changes in regulations. This has, on the occasion of certain important alterations, been altogether inadequate. Apart from the returns needed for statistical purposes, which are undoubtedly of interest, and may be in the future of much importance, it does not seem that, while the present system of making grants is adhered to, there can be any great simplification as far as technical education is concerned, though it would certainly be more convenient if such a Board as ours could deal direct with the Department instead of through the controlling authority. Much improvement has recently been made in the claims for capitation for day technical schools, and
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it would seem desirable that further simplification should take place as regards those for evening schools, which are at present extremely complicated and demand in their preparation the expenditrue of a large amount of time. In accordance with Regulation 46 a different rate of capitation is paid in all divisions other than Division I for first- and second-year pupils. I would suggest that a uniform rate be paid for both years, preferably for all divisions, but at any rate for "divisions from"11 to VI, such rate to be, say, 4£d., which would be, I presume, a fair average of the grants at present made. Similarly for the third and all subsequent years I would suggest a uniform rate, say, 6£d. If this were done it would be unnecessary to use separate forms for each year and each course, and claims could be made on behalf of first- and second-year pupils for all divisions on the same form. In the case of a large institution like ours it is well nigh impossible for the ordinary staff to cope with what, under the recent arrangements, requires to be done between the end of one session and the beginning of the next, for at this time, in addition to the departmental returns, there is a large amount of other work that must be got out of hand before the beginning of the next session brings its own rush. It has not been found desirable that casual assistants should be employed, because the work requires attention to detail and mistakes are difficult tc detect and rectify,. As a matter of fact last session, though we were entitled to claim for a number of students at the higher rate of 5d., the amount of extra labour that would have been entailed at a very busy time did not make it worth our while to do so, and we therefore claimed at a lower uniform rate of 4d. I should like to suggest also that the conditions relating to courses and to free places be unified, the courses for free students being based on Regulations 46a and 46b; but in the case of free students one hour of English should be allowed even in a four-hour course. It has to be borne in mind that under present conditions many free students, who are mostly young, have to come long distances to evening school, and it is sometimes desirable that courses occupying two evenings only should be arranged. In the case of students taking courses periods of less than one hour's duration should be allowed for a subject. This would make it possible to include physical instruction for half an Tiour in an evening's work. Technical education in this country will never be on a satisfactory basis until branch technical schools are provided in suburban districts close to the homes of pupils, and their attendance secured by compulsion or otherwise. We have by no means exhausted all the possible ways of securing voluntary attendance, and it seems strange that in the Town of Halifax, with a population of only 105,000, there should be one main technical school and thirteen branch schools; in Rochdale, with a population of about 84,000, one main technical school and nine branch schools : Keighley, population about 42,000, one technical school and six branch schools. In New Zealand there is practically nothing of the kind. The Christchurch Board opened a branch evening school at the beginning of this session in the Richmond Primary School, but, although pains were taken to advertise the classes, the attendance was so poor that they had to be discontinued. It has been found as a matter of experience at Home that if branch technical schools are to be a success there must be a headmaster appointed in each, and this position is generally filled by the headmaster of the primary school in which the classes are held, or by one of the senior assistants, but to justify this a good attendance must be secured. Certainly, without earnest local co-operation little can be expected; and if the services of primary-school teachers are utilized it would be desirable that the Education Board should join in their management. In order to prevent the great educational wastage that at present occurs after the primary schools it would be well for the authorities in each of the chief centres to unite in the appointment of an officer, whose duty it should be to visit the parents of children leaving the primary school, and to place before them the facilities that are offered for further education. This has been done with great success in certain towns at Home, notably Halifax. As a step in this direction it would seem desirable that headmasters, of at least town primary schools, should forward at regular intervals the names and addresses of pupils leaving schools, and that a circular should be sent to the parents of such, informing them of the educational avenues open to them. The School Journal should also be used to make these better known. If each year, in the issue supplied to Standards V and VI, an account was given of the various secondary and continuation schools and their conditions of entrance a good deal of the lamentable ignorance that now prevails would be removed. It would be to the very great advantage of education if teachers engaged in its various branches would join to make the Educational Institute a thoroughly representative body. So long as eacli class —primary", technical, secondary, and university—confines its attention only to its own special work, there is bound to be a great lack of co-ordination, and even of that cordiality and mutual esteem which is so desirable among those united in so f;reat a service. The Institute now admits as honorary members those not engaged in primary work, and I trust that many will be ready to avail themselves of this privilege. One strong parent Institute, with a special section for each branch of education, would be a great power of good. It is, I am convinced, of urgent importance that much greater attention should be paid in schools of all grades to the question of physical training. In the past the matter has been left, in general, to untrained teachers or drill instructors, and an altogether inadequate amount of time devoted to it. Schools may have staffs of ten or twenty teachers all qualified to care for the irental development of their bodies. And yet without a healthy and well-developed body the efficiency of the citizen, whatever may be his or her work, is enormously lowered. The great difficulty to be contended with in New Zealand is the absence of properly qualified teachers who are able to deal with the matter from a physiological standpoint; and without this, as the memorandum of the English Board of Education declares, physical training is of little value. In some quarters it is customary to decry physical training and to insist upon the paramount importance of games. The value of the latter is undoubtedly very great, and games' periods, in my judgment, should be a regular part of the curriculum of every school; but it must be remembered that there is always a considerable proportion of the pupils who, generally for physical reasons,
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are either unable or unwilling to take part in ordinary school games. Unless some one is appointed whose business it is to care for the physical development of the whole school, and to "make himself acquainted with the needs of each individual pupil, the good done is only haphazard; and those who need most care and who would benefit most by physical training get leastt It has been suggested, and the matter is worthy of very- careful consideration, that the Department should establish in connection with the University- of Otago a training school for instructors (both men and women) in physical culture. There is in Dunedin a medical side, at which the medical part of the training could be well given; and it would only be necessary to import a highly competent instructor and to furnish a room with comparatively inexpensive apparatus in order to put the work on a satisfactory basis. Each large primary school and secondary school could then in time be supplied with a physical instructor of its own; and if the curriculum were modified as it should be to provide for adequate physical training, the time of such an instructorwould be fully taken up. I notice that the question of training the young in the laws of sex has been brought before the Commission on more than one occasion. I believe that present evils would be largely removed if proper care were taken to ensure an all-round moral, mental, and physical development. Our schools at present lay undue emphasis on mental development, and it is where growth is one-sided or arrested that an organism becomes liable to disease. If our education system provided an all-round training and cared for the citizen past the age of adolescence —say, to seventeen or eighteen years —this would be the surest means of coping with social evil. Not that it would avoid the desirability of instruction in sexual physiology, but if this is to be left, as has been implied, to the secondary-school period it is obviously too late, if only for the reason that those who perhaps need the instruction most do not go on to secondary schools. Unquestionably the beginnings of such instruction should be given in response to the natural curiosity of the child before the age of nine, and by the mother. But if the mothers are incompetent or- unwilling, could the children learn such from any better source than the wise motherly teachers who may be found in charge of the lower classes of our schools ? The further training of adolescent boys and girls, if neglected by the parent, is a more difficult matter to deal with, but I believe that even here it is best done by teachers who have the respect and confidence of their pupils. If the Department were to prepare for the guidance of teachers a suggestive leaflet, following the lines taken by- the headmaster of Eton in his " Instruction of the Young in the Laws of Sex," I have no doubt that many would, as a matter of duty, undertake this important but very difficult task. Situated as we are at this "world's far end," it is difficult for teachers to keep themselves in touch with the progress of educational thought and practice. No means to this end is really adequate other than travel and study on the spot, but from this the great bulk of our teachers are entirely excluded. I have been in the Dominion now for nearly eleven years, and within my knowledge only five assistant masters in secondary schools have visited Europe. The Defence Department considers it desirable, and holds the expenditure justified, that military officers, and even Senior Cadets, should travel through the Empire. Surely the return to the country would be far greater if duly qualified and earnest teachers were selected and a generous subsidy- granted towards the expenses of a tour undertaken for purposes of study. I received a day or two ago from America a most significant publication. It is issued by the Bureau of Education for the United States, and printed by the Government Printing Office. It contains an article by the President of the United States, and another by the President of one of their most famous universities, and a recent visitor to New Zealand, Dr. Starr Jordan. President Taft in the course of his remarks says : "If the United States has a mission it seems to me that it is to blaze the way to universal arbitration among the nations and to bring them into more complete amity than ever before existed." It is with this aim in view that the publication referred to has been issued by the Bureau of Education, in order that " all or portions of it may be reprinted by State Departments of Education in sufficient quantities to supply all the teachers in the several States." It contains suggestions and material for the observation in the schools of the 18th May—the anniversary of the assembling of the first Peace Conference at the Hague —as " Peace Day." Is it too much to hope that New Zealand, which has been the pioneerin notable ways for the uplift of humanity, will speedily follow in the path thus blazed by the United States? If the Education Department would issue a similar publication, containing an article by the Prime Minister, and another by the Inspector-General of Schools, with other materials for the assistance of teachers in arranging an attractive programme for the observation of " Peace Day," which I would suggest be the date of the Treaty of Pretoria — 31st May — when all our schools are in session, a great step forward would be taken in that movement for relieving humanity from the appalling burden of armaments and the spirit of racial suspicion and fear; "for it is increasingly true that whatever we would have in the nation of to-morrow we should put into the schools of to-day. In these workshops of humanity the future is formed and determined to an extent and degree greater than anywhere else." I have pleasure in submitting herewith to the Commission a copy of this significant publication [handed in]. In closing, I should like to express the earnest hope that the Commission w 7 ill urge upon the Government the necessity of further expenditure on our primary schools in order to make the system not merely worthy but efficient. It is an undoubted fact that while a large amount of lip-honour is accorded to the work of education it too rarely comes from the heart. Expenditure by the hundred thousand pounds may be lavished upon public buildings for the transaction of Government business, but our schools, other than the endowed ones, are among the meanest buildings in the country. If the Commissioners will, for example, visit Sydenham, a suburb of Christchurch, to see the post-office now being erected on the site of a headmaster's house too uncomfortable and insanitary to be occupied by him, and compare it with the adjoining primary school, they will realize the truth of the statement. This post-office is a building which surpasses any of the branch offices that I can remember in London, while some of the rooms in
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the school are a disgrace to an advanced community. While our schools are what they- are, this bu-iiding and others like it are really monuments to our shame. With classes generally so large that real education is impossible, and with rooms gloomy, ill-ventilated, and overcrowded,it is small wonder that the Dominion finds it difficult to obtain an adequate supply of teachers. Until the people, realize that the greatness of the nation and the well-being of its citizens depends upon its system of education, and not upon post-offices and railway-stations, or even upon its armies and navies, little progress will be made. A great deal could be done towards increasing interest in schools by forming home and school associations, as in Wellington. 2. To Mr. Kirk.] I have given no serious consideration to the matter of the simplification of spelling. 3. To Mr. Pirani.] I would like something further to be done before there is compulsory attendance at training schools. I think we will have to come to compulsion. 4. To the Chairman.] I believe many of those who have left'without passing Standards IV and V would attend continuation classes if we offered them free. The privilege of free education might be extended to all prepared to avail themselves of it up to the age of seventeen or eighteen. After that they might be required to pay, unless the country is prepared to spend further money on technical education. 5. To Mr. Hogben.] I believe that children should be given instruction in matters relating to sex in the primary schools. I cannot hope that all parents would be prepared to do it.
Friday, 28th June, 1912. Christopher Thomas Aschmann examined on oath. (No. 103.) 1. To the Chairman.] I have been headmaster of the Normal School for about eight or nine years. Before that I was an assistant here, and an assistant in Lyttelton before corning here. I w 7 as trained in Canterbury, and I have departmental certificate C. Under the regulations governing the inspection and examination of schools, considerable freedom is allowed for a school to develop along lines that give room for development according to the capacity and the individuality of those controlling it. Yet the most competent teachers, and more particularly the less experienced, welcome the experiences of others and the advice of well-qualified authority. Too often the only assistance available is restricted to the Inspectors of their own particular district, and while this is undoubtedly valuable there is a tendency for each district to become selfcentred, and the wider experience to be gained from a knowledge of progress throughout the Dominion is not available. I think it would be of decided advantage if the Department issued to teachers accurate and lucid records of particular methods that bore the seal, of success in actual practice. For example, writing, as produced by children of the primary schools, is the subject of periodic attacks in the Press by business men, who in the majority of cases have ample justification for complaint. Any district or school that has succeeded in obtaining rapid and automatic writing should have its methods published by the Department for the benefit of those who adopt plans that are less successful. Such publication would be of the greatest advantage to teachers in districts remote from the main centres, to whom the Inspectors can hope to pay not more than two short visits per year. The annual reports submitted to the Education Boards by the Inspectors are of too general a character to make an efficient substitute for this suggested publication of particular methods and of educational experiments. In the general remarks concerning the treatment of subjects of the syllabus is found the following : " Spelling should be taught by means of systematic lessons on word-building, based on a general phonic scheme, or on the meanings of the words, or on both principles combined." Yet in a definition of the complete course in English the syllabus states that spelling, while based on word-building, shall also include " order words in common use contained in one of the reading-books." With few exceptions the universal plan is for Inspectors to make the main test from the reading-book, and to meet this requirement teachers are forced into adopting a plan of laboriously taking the words for spelling from each lesson in turn, with no attempt at following the sound principles enunciated in the general remarks of the syllabus that preface this subject. I submit that the plan of teaching spelling that is thus forced upon the teacher is unscientific in treatment and wasteful in time and energy. It weuld be preferable to eliminate any reference to a reading-book, and to make the spelling suited to the capacity of the children. It has been urged in opposition to this suggestion that it places the teacher and the children wholly at the mercy of the Inspector; but surely there is not such an anachronism in New Zealand as an Inspector who sets out deliberately to " trap " the children. I think it would be unwise to make a drastic alteration in the direction of demilitarizing the junior cadets. The present scheme has an excellent disciplinary effect, and the suggestion to call in the uniforms and to revert to mere squad drill would rob the movement of all interest and effectiveness. The working of the scheme has never been allowed to monopolize time that have been given to physical instruction—in fact, physical instruction is carried out with the greatest zest in schools that have the most efficient Junior Cadet units. The chief argument used against the present system is the quaint one that the Junior Cadets do much of the work that should be done by the Senior Cadets. To prevent this a well-known saying is rearranged to read, "It is wise to put off till to-morrow what can be done to-day." If elementary military training, approaching to some extent what is now scheduled for the Senior Cadets, can be efficiently carried out in the primary schools, where is the need for trade dislocation that is now necessary for Senior Cadet training? The arguments
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used by opponents of the Junior Cadet system provide excellent ammunition for the anti-militarist. The question has been asked by this Commission as to whether popular opinion would agree to compulsory attendance at continuation schools. A solution is to be found in the argument of those hostile to the Junior Cadet system. If the military training of lads at school trenches so largely on the work of the Senior Cadets, throw the whole burden on the Junior Cadets, and transfer the compulsion for military training of the Senior Cadet to compulsory attendance at continuation schools. But there is a deeper objection to this suggestion of reducing the scope of the Junior Cadet. One of the weaknesses of the present system of education is the tendency to unduly accentuate individualistic motives and standards. Many of the subjects readily lend themselves to this weakness, while the lack of importance places upon others that correct this tendency, and the methods of treatment adopted assist in exalting the individual in opposition to a sounder view that " the end and standard of the school-work is to be found in its functional relation to social life." Subjects that assist in developing the idea of a contribution to the general good are excellent training, and a necessary preparation for the child who is eventually expected to take an interest in community welfare. This end, I submit, is assisted materially by the Junior Cadet organization. 2. To Mr. Davidson.] In regard to demilitarizing the Junior Cadets : what the suggested alteration by the Minister of Education is or exactly what he means to do has been largely a matter of rumour up to this, but we understand that we are between two organizations, the military authorities and the Scouts, and between the two we fall. They are reverting to old-fashioned ideas, I believe. The control of the cadets has not been taken out of the teachers' hands and put into the hands of sergeants and sergeant-majors here. In Canterbury they simply come round and assist, and the teachers still take their own drill. I think this is necessary, to some extent, because it keeps teachers quite up to the best points in the drill —that is, they do not get behindhand; and the drill is never the same for six months on end —it is continually changing. If I were told that the experience of headmasters and Inspectors in many districts is that the first or second male assistants do this work quite as well as, very often much better than, the officer who visits the schools, I would not be disposed to dispute it. Masters understand children far better than soldiers do. I do not think it is absolutely necessary that country schools should be put to the expense of employing these men to go round to visit the schools, but I think it is to some extent advisable. In regard to the teaching of spelling, and the apparent neglect in carrying out the suggestions, I would not suggest that a spelling-book should take the place of the readingbook. A spelling-book would be a worse feature, because there the words are disassociated from their meanings. I would still use the books on the basis on which they would work—that is, they would learn a word and then take the words of the same family; but they should not be made the test at the end of the year by the Inspectors. Inspectors as a rule do not look for the easy words. I think a child should be able to write a piece of dictation containing words that should be familiar to him at that stage —that is, words that would enter more particularly into his daily life, and words he feels he should use, and not outlandish words that he finds no necessity to use. I would confine the test to dictation and the spelling as shown in the composition. Regarding the training college, the students are not compelled or coerced into taking a course at the University. The suggestion is quite the reverse. Mr. Hogben, Inspector-General, and Dr. Anderson, the Assistant Inspector-General, have been most insistent that that should be secondary in every case; that the first qualification was going on with the professional study, and literary attainments should follow. I think in the minority of cases the students consider their training in, the University comes before their work here, but in the majority of cases they are interested in their own professional training. I think it would be a distinct assistance if a probationer were allowed in the small country schools where the attendance ranges from thirty to forty. I think this would tend to increase the supply of suitable candidates for our training colleges. 3. Would it be possible to have in connection with several of the larger schools in and around Christchurch a room where you could have a model sole-teacher country school, do you think, and where the Board on the advice of the Inspectors could bring in some experienced and very successful sole teachers from the country districts ?—That is, purely for observational work ? I think one would be sufficient. If we had the best that could be got, in the Normal School here, I do not need for any more. From the point of view of purely observational work I am satisfied that one would be sufficient. 4. Do you think it would be possible and practicable to have several of these in connection with our other large State schools—l mean, in the city and suburban schools? Could you not have one room fitted up as a sole-teacher school, to which your students from this Training College could go, in addition probably to the one in the institution?— Theoretically it sounds all right, but we have had such an exjoerience of the waste of time travelling between here and the University that I am loth to advocate anything like this. 5. To Mr. Wells.] The publication I spoke of would be something on the lines of those publications which are issued in Australia. I think an Inspector should report if a subject is excellently taught in a school or district, and if it is considered on sound principles it should be distributed to the teachers throughout the district. There are a few short of a hundred students in the Training College here. They do the whole of their work and observations in the Normal School. This somewhat interferes with the work of the classes, but there are compensations. One difficulty which arises I think is this : that you do not get" quite the extreme polish as if one teacher were working; but, at the same time, being presented with different personalities really makes the children very alert. The plan of sending the students out from the College to observe the work of other teachers has not been adopted. I think it has been adopted in Auckland to some extent. It is a good idea for a restricted number of students. They would go out knowing what to
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observe, but the weaker students are better left with those qualified to look after them. If it would only- be a few of our best picked students attached to particular classes as teachers, then if would be a splendid idea. 6. To Mr. Kirk.] I have not given any thought to the reform in the matter of the construction of_spelling"of words. I think there is room for reform, but I would not like to say more. 7. To Mr: Hogben.] I think it is a very important matter that we should give attention in our school programme to developing the training of the child for social life. I think that is a point that is absolutely in the forefront in dealing with the subjects connected with our schoolwork. There are quite a number of subjects, besides the drill, that assist in that way. I think that all manual training especially- is most valued from that point of view. Anything where children have to assist one another, where reciprocity and co-operation come in, is most valuable —things like school gardening, manual work, singing, kindergarten methods adopted right through the school, anything where they are learning to reciprocate with those around them. That is the point I tried to bring out in the matter of the cadet drill. Experimental work in the elementary science is on the same lines, because a boy very rarely works by himself there; if he can produce anything of value to the rest, he is showing his service to society. I did not know that in American schools they have a " Children's Day " where the children do all the questioning and the guidance of their fellows, under the control of the teachers of the class. We do something to a limited extent here, where the children take certain object-lessons, where they explain to the class what they have discovered, and are then asked questions by the children. I have found that most valuable. It teaches them to be observant, and they are freer in their method of speaking. They are also a distinct help to the others. The teachers manage the entering and exit from the class-rooms, largely for the sake of the students. It is training for them to see how things like that should be done, rather than that the children should do it. The idea might be workable, but we have never tried it beyond making them practise bringing the pupils in in the morning sometimes. There are a good many opportunities during the school life of bringing out the social side. I think it would be a lopsided system of education that did not develop the manual side. 8. To the Chairman.] 1 think the time has arrived when the kindergarten system should form an essential part of the schools :it would be very valuable. The kindergarten system is followed to some extent in the training classes. George Scott examined on oath. (No. 104.) 1. To the Chairman,] I am Chairman of the governing body of the Christchurch Technical College, and have been so for the last six months. I have been a member of that body for about two years. lam a member of the firm of Scott Bros., engineers, Christchurch. With regard to the control of technical education, it is our opinion that it is preferable for the system to be controlled, as in Christchurch, by representatives elected by bodies that contribute to its maintenance. In view, however, of fhe fact that domestic science now forms a most important and growing part of the work of technical education, it would seem desirable that there should be given to the Board power to co-opt with lady members, in a proportion not exceeding one lady to five gentlemen members, with a minimum of three members. The Board is strongly of opinion that, as the benefits of technical education are spread over the whole district, its cost should be borne —apart from such contributions as may be made voluntarily by local bodies —wholly out of consolidated revenue. In the case of the Technical College, for example, 212 pupils of the day school are drawn from outside Greater Christchurch, from places as widely distant as Hawarden, Oxford, Springfield, Southbriclge, and Dunsandel. .Our shearing and wool classes are also attended mainly by country students. In order that more country pupils may be assisted to avail themselves of the opportunities provided, wo are strongly of opinion that in place of granting money scholarships to town pupils allowances for books only should be made, but that grants towards the cost of boarding should be made to suitably- qualified pupils from country schools. The Board is strongly of opinion that free education in industrial and domestic-science work, either in a day or an evening school, should be offered to all pupils who are entitled to leave the primary school, whether they have obtained the certificate of proficiency or not, The Board also would support the raising of the - day-school leaving-age to fourteen, as proposed in the last Education Amendment Bill, and the making compulsory of continuation education in the evening school. A hostel for the training of girls in the management and care of the home is in process of erection, and we believe that the extension of such work in, all the chief centres would be of great value to the community, especially if the instruction included also the care and management of children. For this it would be necessary to erect, in connection with the hostel, a small creche, where young children could be taken care of for a few weeks at a time. We believe that in all branches of education greater attention should be paid to the physical training of the pupils, and that Government grants should depend upon the placing of this part of the work upon a satisfactory footing. This is particularly necessary- in the case of girls, and before it can be done it will be necessary for the Department to arrange for a supply of properly trained instructors. We understand that the Government has under consideration the medical inspection of primary schools, and we think that the medical inspection of our secondary pupils during the years of adolescence is of no less importance, especially as during this period they are preparing for occupations for which a medical examination might show them to be unfitted. In view of the rapid growth of the towns it would seem desirable that the Government should take into consideration the securing of ample sites for future schools. Even now- in many cases education is hampered for lack of playground accommodation, and the difficulty will become increasinglyacute. I should like to suggest that, in order to assist the Department in the allocation of grants
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for educational purposes in various districts, a Council or Advisory Board be appointed, consisting of one representative or more from each district, which should meet in Wellington each year "before the estimates are prepared, to deal with applications received and to make recommendations to the Minister. If the subject of agriculture is to be successfully taught and its results to be more "efficient there must be increased expenditure, and the technical schools must be properlyequipped if-we are to be progressive. At present dairy-farming, one of our most important industries, is receiving very little attention. Until the demand for such instruction is sufficient to justify the provision of special equipment, arrangements might be made with a local dairy where practical instruction could be given. A pupil should be well trained in those branches of elementary education that are of general value, but any special training should be left until the pupil has passed the Sixth Standard. Those pupils who do not then go on to secondary schools should continue their studies at a technical school, where every facility is given, and where teachers are specially selected for the work. Owing to the high wages paid to boys and girls, and the many outside attractions, technical subjects should be made as interesting as possible as an inducement to pupils to continue their studies, for at this age the foundation of their future life is laid. With this end in view the Government should provide all technical and secondary schools with lantern and slides dealing with all subjects taught, while free libraries should be provided, containing books specially selected for students attending such schools. I would make it compulsory that all pupils should attend the day or evening classes up to the age of sixteen. Statistics for 1908 and 1909, showing the number of pupils who fail to qualify for free further education : Throughout the Dominion some 8,400 Standard VI certificates were granted—6,4oo of proficiency, 2,000 of competency. Of these 2,000 pupils a small proportion would no doubt remain at school for another year, but the great majority would leave, and if they wished to avail themselves of any further education would have to pay for the privilege. In Standard V in 1908 there were 14,200 pupils, while in Standard VI in 1909 there were only 10,000 pupils, showing that some 4,200 had not passed into Standard VI. The great majority of these would have left school to take up work. In 1908 there were 16,500 pupils in Standard IV, while in 1909 there were 13,800 pupils in Standard V, showing that some 2,700 pupils left Standard IV without passing into Standard V. Adding together those who left Standards IV and V without passing into Standard VI we get a total of 8,500, and if to these were added threequarters only of those who have obtained certificates of competency we get a total of some 10,000 children. However big a margin may be allowed for deaths, removals, or retention in standards, it is clear that a very large number of our boys and girls leave the primary schools unqualified for free education, and consequently, while they may be already handicapped naturally by smaller abilities as against the brighter children, they are handicapped still further by our system of education, which refuses them the further facilities which it grants to their cleverer schoolfellows. I beg to submit, for the consideration of the Commission, the advisability of abolishing the City and Guilds of London Institute and the English Board of Education Science and Art Examinations, and the substitution for these of certificates and diplomas by our own Education Department. I note that the cost of the present examinations, as given in the return for 1911, was some £862, and the number of individual entries 1,300. The number of papers in which examinations were held were as follows : Science and Art, thirty-six; City and Guilds, thirty-five : but of these no less than fifteen Science and Art, and twenty-one City and Guilds, were taken by ten candidates or less. Where the entries are so few the examinations in such subjects might well be dropped. It seems particularly advisable in the case of the City and Guilds Examinations, where all the work has to be sent Home for examination at considerable expense (except in the case of cookery, which is examined on the spot). In such a subject as needlework the syllabus might well be improved and so modified as to adapt it for a teachers' diploma in this subject, Needlework is taken by the women teachers for their certificates, and it would be well if a special syllabus of work were laid dowm similar to the one which I herewith beg to submit to the Commission. We have found as a matter of experience that the programme of work for the City and Guilds Needlework Examination is unwise, not only because of its restricted scope, but also because it proves so trying to the candidates. The samples of work that have to be submitted have to be carried out on white materials, and first-class certificates are awarded for stitching that is unreasonably fine. The examinations might be conducted in conjunction with the Department's own examinations now held in November or January, a far more convenient time than the present examinations, which are held early- in the session. This should also mean a considerable saving of expense in supervision fees; and, although it may not be so convenient to candidates to attend the examinations during the day, this objection would not be serious, and might be compensated for by the reduction of entrance fees. 2. To Mr. Davidson.] I think children should be compelled to remain in the primary schools until they are fourteen years of age, or until they have passed the Proficiency Examination. In the town schools I would leave all manual and technical work, such as woodwork and cookery, until children enter a technical school, but I do not say that I would leave it in the country districts. I think it is a waste of time children travelling from one school to another. I would not suggest that children in the country should travel in order to obtain their education. I think some instruction should be given in connection with manual training in country- schools. Where it is possible for children to get to the centre there should be such privileges allowed to enable them to get there. 1 do not, however, think it wise, in order to travel to a centre, that they should be away from home for as long a period as thirteen hours. I may say in this connection that children who are coming to the Technical School from some distance have lunch prepared in connection with the cooking classes. They get a warm lunch and a cheap one, at a cost of ss. a month. It is a fact that local contributions in connection with district high schools and technical schools are largely- subsidized by the State. I do not think it would be advisable to
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allow local bodies to levy a rate for the upkeep of the primary and technical schools. Very little is given in Canterbury to the primary schools. There is a considerable amount given to the Technical School, and the various bodies who are contributing to the Technical College are a very great assistance. All the contributing bodies have a representative on the Board of Management, and they are taking very great interest in it. The various trades taught naturally brings the College before the various unions or Boards, and it means a wider interest is being taken in technical training. I do not think any more interest would be taken if a certain proportion of the upkeep of these institutions was provided out of rates. There is no interest taken in Auckland. There it is left to one man. Here we have a Board composed of twentyfour men, and very- great interest is being taken. To levy a rate for the management of the Technical College would be an expensive way of raising any money that we require in connection with our technical education. I think it far better and more satisfactory that if should come out of the consolidated revenue, and that all local contributions should be liberally subsidized. 3. To Mr. Wells.] Ido not know of any overlapping going on in this city. There has been some suggestion of it in connection with the engineering department and Canterbury College, but from what I can see there is no overlapping going on there. No overlapping between the secondary schools and technical departments has come before my notice. Possibly a number of pupils at the District High School who are taking the commercial course could receive instruction -at the Technical Day School, but it would be impossible for us to accommodate them all at the Technical School. Given the increased accommodation, the school would then be too large. The pupils who are taking the literary course at the District High School could take it at the College, but I think it is quite necessary they should take it at the district high schools. We have a difficulty in getting properly trained teachers for technical classes here. I cannot suggest any way of coping with this difficulty unless some more encouragement is given by increased pay. We have not got into working-order with the hostel yet; we are just starting it. In regard to playgrounds, I think the Department should at once set to work and purchase large areas for the schools for playgrounds. The cities are spread yet —take Christchurch, for instance, we have not a decent playground to our schools, and the schools are continually- spreading out into the boroughs. If at the present time an effort were made to purchase grounds I think the schools would go in that direction, but at the present time a population settles down, and then we have to look for a section in that direction. I do not think the borough or the city should be brought into the question of education and asked to contribute towards such a scheme. 4. Does it not affect the city as well as education? Does it not affect the well-being of the whole of the people of the city? Would it be too much to ask them to contribute? —No, perhaps it would not. 5. To the Chairman.] I do not think it should be made compulsory. They should be left free, as they are at the present time with technical education. 6. To Mr. Kirk.} As to whether the boys are being turned out from the primary schools with a reasonable capacity to use their brains, I am not able to give a definite opinion. I am not going to say they are not. We know, of course, there is room for great improvement there. In connection with the engineering students at our works, we have a very high standard. We take them from the Technical College, and one of the conditions of employment is that they must continue their studies at the School of Engineering. We only take them on those conditions. In regard to the biscuit-factory which I own, I may say that I have never made inquiries. We have applications from a very large number of young boys who are just leaving school, especially at the end of the year. I think the aim of education in our primary schools should be the three Rs in the city, and special attention should be given to same, but manual training should be left to be taken up at the Tehnical College. I think the children would get through their education earlier at the primary schools if that were so. 7. To Mr. Pirani.] At the present time members of the Board of Management of the Technical College are appointed from the various contributing bodies. I think the City Council appoints a member, but, of course, there are always a number of the Councillors who are very anxious to become members of the Board. For ladies to become members it would be necessary for some body to contribute. 8. To Mr. Hogben.} I believe the plans and carrying-out of the work in connection with the Auckland Technical School have all been entirely left to the local authority. That is where I say the mistake is. 9. And you would have this Council that you refer to interfere w 7 ith local managers if they do not ask for any advice? —They should ask for advice. I say no building should be erected of that kind until it has been passed by the Advisory Board. 10. Then if they have the money from local contributions and subsidy, would you give the Council power, nevertheless, to interfere with them in the building of their school? —Yes, the Government have to find the subsidy, and I think they should have a say in the buildings. I do not think the subsidy is tied down by the Act, as to what it should be used for, but I think that all school buildings, and especially colleges, should be passed by this Advisory Board. At the present time we are in a state of uncertainty. We know that we require something, but we are not sure whether we will get it. We know that in connection with our own College. There is a time perhaps when we require additions : we make application for a grant, and do not know whether we will get it or not. I think we should know at the beginning of the year what is the programme for the future. 11. To the Chairman.] With regard to the assistance given by a Corporation or County Council to the upkeep of these institutions, is it not a fact that all over England technical schools are supported wholly by the County Council or the Council administering the affairs in the confines of the county?—l am not sure. Although the system may have proved highly successful
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elsewhere, I do not think it would prove so here, because we are in our infanc3 7 , as it were; we are just building up our education. I agree that representation should go hand-in-hand with ,<«ontributions. 12. Well, if f tell you that our Dunedin City Council, Otago Education Board, Maori Hill Borough Council, Otago Rugby Union, Otago Employers' Association, Otago Agricultural and Pastoral Association, Pharmaceutical Association, Roslyn Borough Council, St. Kilda Borough Council, Waikouaiti County Council, all contribute to the upkeep of the Technical School in Dunedin, surely they are proper persons to represent it? —Well, they do so here, but they are not compelled to contribute—it is voluntary- contribution. The fact that they do contribute entitles them to representation. From fourteen to sixteen is not sufficient time to ground children properly in technical subjects perhaps, and if there are any at the age of sixteen who wish to continue their education —that is, go on to the higher branches of education—l think they should have some assistance in doing so, but very few would go beyond sixteen. Ido not think a course of two years in any industry, for example, would enable a person to get the theoretical knowledge that he ought to possess to make him a good workman, but I take it he would lie studying in the direction of a trade that he intends taking up. At the age of sixteen he would follow that trade up in the various industries. If it is as a teacher he would go to college and get his trainingthere, but I think sixteen is a very fair age, if we can get it compulsory up to sixteen. I think there is a sympathetic disposition on the part of employers in the direction of letting their lads attend a technical school or an associated day class. We are moving in that direction at the present time. Of course, the difficulty is that technical education is not so widely known as it should be. Even in our own districts people know very little of the benefits to be derived fiom it, I am firmly of opinion that in New Zealand an officer should be appointed who has an intimate acquaintance with the systems of lighting, ventilating, and public hygiene to advise that Council in the construction of buildings in which the consolidated revenue plays an important part in providing funds before the construction is entered upon, no matter where the rest of the revenue is derived from, f may say that I have been a member of the Hospital Board for a number of years, and I am surprised when I look back to see what we have wasted there in connection with the heating of the buildings, and this is what I wish to see corrected. I could not say how many secondary schools there are in this provincial district. R, Herdman-Smith examined on oath. (No. 105.) 1. To the Chairman? I am Director of the School of Art in Christchurch, and have been engaged in that capacity for several years. Previous to that I was on the staff of the Wellington Technical School for something like four years; the last two years I had charge of the School of Art, then a, department of the Technical School. I have had eleven years' actual teaching here. I was for seven or eight years connected with the School of Art in Yorkshire, and some four years with the School of Art in Bath, and some two years assistant on the staff of the Antwerp Royal Academy School. I hold the Art Masters' Diploma on the Ist, 2nd, and 3rd group, am a Fellow of the International Society of Arts, and Associate of the Royal Society, London, and a member of several minor societies, besides being Medallist of the National Competition, England, and International Medallist of Paris Exhibition of 1905. I have prepared the following statement : The art schools of New Zealand as compared with those of other countries : For the past eleven years I have been connected with the teaching of art in New 7 Zealand. For the greater part of that time I have been in charge of the Christchurch School of Art, which is the largest, and probably the most complete, school of art in the Dominion. Previous to coming to New Zealand I was on the staff of two of the largest art schools in England, and one of the most important Continental Royal Academies of Fine Arts. Therefore I may perhaps be excused if f. draw comparisons between the art schools in New Zealand and those of the older countries. The art schools in England work under a definite programme of studies, drawn up by the Council for Advice in Art of the Board of Education, London. This programme, though allowing considerable variation, keeps the schools more or less in line with one another. Again, there exists a system of national exhibitions and competitions to which students send their work annually. These exhibitions are held in London during the long vacation, and are visited by art teachers and students in training, at the invitation and expense of the Government. After the conclusion of the exhibition in London, the selected works which have gained aw 7 ards are exhibited in the leading provincial towns for the benefit of those who were unable to see the complete exhibition in London. In addition to this national exhibition and competition, where awards in the form of medals are given for the best work, there are also a series of examinations in single subjects, and groups of subjects, conducted by the Board of Education, for which certificates are granted, and which count together with certain definite courses of study, and the execution of groups of finished works, towards teaching qualifications and diplomas. There is also a complete scholarship system, beginning with Government scholarships carrying maintenance allowances from £30 to £60 per annum for three years, and ending with travelling scholarships carrying allowances of £100 to £200 per annum. Regarding the staffing of art schools, the Board of Education require all headmasters of schools of art to possess the diploma of Art Master, and assistants the certificate of art teacher. Also, grants of £15 to £30 per annum are allowed to schools of art for each art pupil-teacher empkryed, the number allowed in each school varying according to the attendance. By this means advanced students are helped financially when undergoing training as art teachers. The bulk of the funds for the upkeep of schools is derived from capitation on attendance, and a payment for each work of merit sent to the National Exhibition. This method encourages both attendance and advanced work, and so places the principal schools doing the highest type of work, and necessarily having small classes
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and highly paid teachers, on an equal footing with the elementary schools having large classes and less highly paid staffs. These are a few of the principal features of the English central system under the control of the Board of Education in London. On the Continent the system is somewhat similar, varying in details, and on a more extensive scale. Splendid scholarships are available, which allow access from the elementary schools to the crafts schools, and finally ■to the Royal Academies. In the matter of upkeep the Continental authorities have adopted the method of granting lump sums to schools, thereby relieving those in charge of any financial responsibility. Let us compare for a moment what we have in New Zealand for the encouragement of art and its teaching. To begin, it is difficult to describe our system, for it seems to differ materially in each centre. It cannot be said that we have a national programme, any further than a group of subjects arranged from the directory of the Board of Education, London. This is in some ways an advantage to a few larger and adequately staffed schools, for it allows various systems to be practised according to the ideas of the several Principals of such schools; but in the small schools and classes it must be a distinct advantage, and, no doubt, accounts for the very poor, and in some cases harmful, work done in many of the classes. It appears to me that there is need for a Dominion programme, and, small as our art-teaching system is as compared with England, it needs carefully arranging, with special application to the requirements of the country. In my own school there are 365 individual students; about 100 of these are taking a day course of study extending over several days per week, another 100 are taking an evening course applied to some trade, and the other 160-odd are made up of 130 State-school teachers taking two or three hours' instruction per week, and 30 dilettante persons taking odd classes. Adding those in attendance in the other three centres and the smaller classes, there must be a considerable number of students taking art up seriously; therefore a programme leading up gradually to an elementary Government teaching qualification is necessary, particularly as the English examinations are no longer available for colonial students. I should recommend a small group of examination subjects and an art teacher's certificate, requiring a set of examinations, a set of works, and teaching practice, the Department to conduct the same annually. 1 should also add the need of an annual or bi-annual national exhibition of arf students' works, and if possible awards in the form of medals and prizes. In a country so far distant from the art centres of the Old World it is distinctly necessary to frequently see the work of the schools as a whole. I am sure considerable benefits would result, particularly to those engaged in teaching in small schools, and such an exhibition and competition "would go far to give unity to our artteaching system, which at present it does not possess. I do not advocate any higher certificate than an A.T.C., because I consider it necessary for our would-be art master to go to Europe to complete his training. It may be possible for the Department to arrange with the English Board of Education to allow our student teachers possessing the New Zealand A.T.C. to go on to the A.M.D. and Associateship R.C.A. without passing through the preliminary stages again, but this is by the way. I, therefore, recommend the Department to consider (1) the advisability of arranging a programme of studies; (2) the establishment of a set of examinations, and an elementary A.T.C.; (3) an annual national exhibition and competition; (4) making grants to allow for the appointment of students in training for teachers; (5) eventually establishing a national travelling art scholarship. The trend in Europe regarding the housing of art schools is towards placing the art teaching in a building separate from the technical science school, so as to preserve an art atmosphere, so essential to advanced work, at the same time still makinguse of the expert instruction in drawing in those branches of technology to which it is allied. The tendency in all large centres is to make the central school of art responsible for the supervision, and in many cases the teaching, of art and drawing-in the branch classes in the district and in the primary and secondary schools. The condition in Christchurch differs as regards the controlling authority from any other centre in New Zealand, but I consider the conditions have a distinct advantage, and have been the means of considerably helping the good work the school has done. We have everything in our favour to develop a really advanced school of fine and applied art. It is not wise to make a school of art a department of a technical college; by so doing it becomes a school of technical drawing, and all art is therefore eliminated. In the capital city, unfortunately for art, the school is but a department of a science and commercial school, and though there are small advantages to the technological section, there are distinct disadvantages to the art side. I speak on- this matter from personal experience in that school. The other two centres appear to be in more or less an unhappy state as regards the control of their art-teaching. In the large centres the art-teaching should be in a separate and specially designed building, and should have a special Art Committee, whether they form part of an Education Board, Technical Board, or Board of Governors of a University college. The Christchurch School of Art has a specially arranged building, and has its advisory Committee on the Board of Governors of Canterbury College. The present drawback in Christchurch to a complete scheme of co-ordination in drawing and art training is that the possibilities of the school are not taken full advantage of by those responsible for the control' of primary and secondary education. The School of Art should assist the teaching of drawing in the primary and secondary schools more directly than it does at present. An hour or two's instruction to pupil-teachers on a Saturday morning is not the full amount of guidance the school is capable of. In thirty-seven centres in England in art instruction in the public and secondary schools is inspired and guided by the schools of art. Birmingham, Leicester, and Burslem may be named as among the first to realize the great value of such a system of co-ordination, which is now seen, to be essential to the national needs. I have just briefly touched upon the lack of any central programme for art. There are possibly one or two changes that might materially help us to get a further and keener interest from the students in advanced work. I think it is very necessary that we should have some colonial examination or some colonial competition. We seem so separated from other
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districts. For instance, I do not think that the school In Dunedin knows in any way what is being done in Christchurch, and certainly- the school here knows nothing of what goes on in Wellington or Auckland, except by the daily papers; we never come in touch with one another. Our students can form no idea of the work of other students in the country, and really we seem to be quite divorced from one another; and, as I said previously, the fact of our being so far .away from the art centres of the world and having practically no advantages in the form of exhibitions, or very few in the form of art exhibitions except by our local artists, which really means that we see the same work over and over again, makes it extremely necessary- that the art schools in the Dominion should work together. I know from experience that the comparing with other schools from time to time is of great benefit, fu connection with some of the smaller schools, and I have had an opportunity occasionally of visiting them, I think the work there ought to be, at any rate, under some more definite arrangement as to the character. Some of the work is really most childish and most harmful. 1 have been in classes where work has been done which is not even up to the form one finds in some of the poorer private classes. There is no blame attachable to those doing the teaching, because there is really no definite scheme laid down and no supervision. 2. To Mr. Davidson.] 1 think the art side of education should be represented on the suggested Council of Education. I think it would be a good thing if the Directors of Art in the four centres should meet and confer periodically. There is a certain amount of overlapping between the School of Art in Christchurch and the Technical College. It occurs, I think, in one subject particularly —signwriting. This subject should be left to the Art School, because the preliminary course in signwriting must be drawing of a definite form; and there must also be to some extent colour. I cannot indicate any other direction in which overlapping occurs. Signwriting is the particular subject in regard to which I feel there is a decided waste. It seems absurd to have two classes in it in a small town like this. The Dominion programme that I spoke of would embrace a programme of work for our primary schools and technical colleges— a co-ordination from the primary school to the School of Art, so that a student coming to us from a primary or secondary school could go on without having to relearn practically all he had done in the form of drawing. In my opinion the laying-down of this definite programme would prevent overlapping. 3. To Mr. Wells? The School of Art is maintained by an endowment. It brings us in a varying amount —£400 or £500 a year. This is one of our main sources of revenue. This is not subsidized. We draw nothing from the Government except through capitation on attendance. The Board of Governors of Canterbury College control the school, but we have a special Art Advisory Committee which forms part of that Board. 4. Mr. Kirk.} What, in your opinion, is the educative value of art from (1) the utilitarian point of view, and (2) the aesthetic point of view?—l feel that the question is so big that one ought to give it consideration before answering. 5. To the Chairman,] We teach, in conjunction with our course, in art, English and arithmetic. We receive a capitation grant for such instruction. We have to give a certain amount of instruction in English and arithmetic to comply with the Government regulations. Personally these subjects seemed to me to be quite out of place in an art school, but from the way we have been able to treat them the students find it a distinct advantage. Very often the pupils who come to us from the primary school at the age of fourteen have not a great knowledge of the literary side of the work, and we are able to treat English from the literary standpoint. Taking these subjects has helped us considerably in our more advanced work, particularly in subjects like composition. We could do without these subjects if they were not insisted upon by the regulations. I do not suppose that the Department in drawing up the regulations contemplated a school of art. I do not think it would follow that a school of art should be attached to the Technical College, where they could be combined,, rather than have an independent institution. You must differentiate between art and technical drawing. An art school is entirely a different institution from a science school, and if science and art are taught in one building—l do not care if they are separated by 2 ft. walls —the scientific side has a detrimental effect upon art. The very idea of an art school is to develop an artistic atmosphere. We can just as well be of assistance to a technical school by being in a separate building as by being in the same building. The trend in England right throughout is to separate technical colleges from schools of art. It would be advisable, I think, to exhibit a collection of the work of our art schools at the industrial exhibition to be held in Auckland next year. 6. To Mr, Davidson.] I do not know whether English and arithmetic are taught in the schools of art in the other three centres. I do not know whether they have taken advantage of the free-place regulations as we have. We took advantage of them because I considered it a special advantage to be able to gather those that showed in the primary schools a special aptitude for drawing. I consider it an advantage for us to get them, after leaving the primary school, to go on with an art training. The fact of our being able to work under these regulation has been the means of our getting a number of really good students. Witness (in answer to Mr. Kirk's question —"What, in your opinion, is the educative value or art from (1) the utilitarian standpoint; (2) the aesthetic standpoint " ?) —subsequently supplied the following reply: In answer to No. 1, I should say the purpose of art is to set a standard of excellence in all commodities in which the element of beauty enters. The very spirit of the word "art" implies something harmonious; something in relation to its surroundings; something arising out of the joy of life and expressing the delight of the craftsman in his work; something personal. The value of art from the utilitarian standpoint, therefore, is in the influence it has on the worker, making him not merely produce, but express —to both produce and express something which is a joy to him in the making, and may be a joy to the user and
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beholder. And in the end it is to be hoped that the value of art will be recognized by the whole community, thereby giving them another language, enabling them to exercise refined taste in their choice of everyday commodities, that they may understand the uses and beauties of forms, and thus have a sound influence upon current workmanship. In answer to No. 2, I should say, the development of "taste." The general aim of art is beauty, and the appreciation of beauty and the true enjoyment of it is taste. Also because of the sense of delight afforded by all study of fine arts, and because of the spirit of gentleness and refinement which must follow such delight. Thus by uplifting men morally and spiritually, art makes clear the reason for its study from the cesthetic standpoint. John 11. Howell, Director of Technical College, Christchurch, further examined. (No. 106.) 1. Mr. Wells.] Will you give us your views on the overlapping question in Christchurch2 — It is rather a big question. I do not quite agree with what has been said by the Chairman of my Board on this matter. I think that in certain branches there is overlapping. The Director of the School of Art has already mentioned one —signwriting. The Board of Governors of the Technical College were approached by the Painters' Union asking that a class in signwriting should be started. The class at the School of Art was not then specially in signwriting, and it was not taken by an expert in signwriting. Consequently my Board, with the consent of the Department, started a class in signwriting, appointing a specialist to take charge of it, and the class has been very successful from the start. I think that signwriting should be taught at the Technical College rather than at the School of Art. As far as English and arithmetic are concerned, I think it would be better if those subjects were taken in some other school than the School of Art. Our accommodation is fairly well taxed. We could take a few more students, but nothing like the large number that is at present accommodated at West Christchurch District High School, and in regard to which there is overlapping. There is undoubtedly overlapping as far as the mere teaching of subjects is concerned. Shorthand, typewriting, and book-keeping-are taken at West Christchurch, and also at the Technical College in the commercial course. With regard to engineering, some little time ago there was a conference between the Board of Governors of Canterbury College and the Board of the Technical College with reference to this matter, but wo were unable to come to an agreement, f think there is more serious overlapping in the case of University education —between the School of Mining Engineering in Auckland and the School of Engineering in Christchurch. It seems to me that considerable economy might be effected by abolishing the Auckland School and giving scholarships to the students who wish to obtain training in engineering. 1 got out some figures some time ago with reference to the Auckland School of Mining Engineering, and I believe that some ,£l,lOO was spent in salaries there —in 1909, I think—and in that year only six individual students obtained certificates. There were some thirty-two individual students taking classes, many of which were mere duplicates of what is taken at the Technical College in Auckland, yet £1,10.0 was spent in salaries. 2. Do you know that the work taken at the University- College was of a higher nature than that taken at the Technical School? Do you know that the Technical School instructors were attending at the University College?—No, I was not aware; but the subjects were the same. Alexander Haslett made affirmation, and was examined. (No. 107.) 1. To the Chairman.] I am Chairman of the Rakaia School Committee. 1 have had about thirty years' experience of School Committee work. As to the length of time spent in the First Standard, since 1909 the numbers seem to have increased greatly in the preparatory classes. Page 13 of the report of the North Canterbury Board shows the same thing. At the Rakaia School we have sixty-seven in the infant-room, divided into four classes. In a room containing this number there is no time for special attention to be given to any pupil. I hold that it is not possible for one person to teach anything like this number efficiently. There are in the preparatory classes children up to the age of eleven and twelve. There are two or three mental defectives, as I call them —all from one family. At the present time it is not possible for a teacher to devote any time to speeding up any dullard, such as these, in a class of that size. Our infantmistress should have power to put the children forward to the First Standard : this power now rests solely with the head teacher, i' understand. She is fairly experienced, and has been in sole charge of a school. We have only ten children in Standard I, and twenty-three in Standard 11. The readers in the First Standard are not supposed to be up to those in the same standard in the United States and England. As to Standard V, there always seem to be a fairlylarge number who never get beyond this. We have only five in the Sixth Standard in a school of 160. When children in a country district reach thirteen years of age their parents want them either to go to work or to go on to the High School. As to the syllabus, so far as I can gather there is not much wrong with it, It seems to me that up to about 1900 parents were fairly satisfied that the children were getting sufficient education in the primary schools, but since then the tendency has been to try to get at least a two-years high school course. Many billets for children are only available at thirteen and fifteen years. The general view seems to be that the primary course might be sharpened, as it were, and that more attention should be paid to the essentials, and higher education left for the high schools. As to higher education, the district high schools seem to be more suitable for supplying the requirements of rural communities than the endowed secondary schools. The Board of Education, I believe, intend to give some prominence to agriculture, and I think it will be a good thing. With regard to the dearth of teachers, many views have been put forward. It has been proposed that we should import them. We had an experience of this, and it was a very favourable one —remarkably so. We wanted an assistant
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mistress, and the usual four names were sent forward to us. Among them was a teacher; direct from the London County Council's schools. She was a " new chum," but we had had experience of her at relieving -work. I made a bit of a fight for her, and we got her. She has given satisfaction in every way. As I say, she was placed fourth on the list by the Board. It was the first time I had known the Committee not to accept the classification of the Board. My view is that if we tried the monitor system we should get a good number of teachers locally. They might be tried when they were in the Sixth Standard. They might be given about £2 a month, and their aptitude for teaching could be found in this way, and on the Inspector's and teacher's report they might be sent on to the training school. The training-school course seems to me to be too short, or there is something too stiff about getting to the training college. Often probationers who have gone on fairly well have failed to pass the test to enter the training college. When they go to the training school they should be paid a sufficient amount to meet their board. As to buildings, we have had a lot of trouble. The whole of the 3 per cent, practically is wasted on old buildings, and you can make nothing of them. 1 know it would not be' very favourablyentertained if you were to try to put a rate on the land. In the Old Country- education was a Government affair, but the buildings were a local charge. On the new valuation the County of Ashburton would be valued at about ten millions. I have estimated that a rate of about onesixteenth of a penny would bring in somewhere about £2,600 annually. In eight years 1 reckon you could replace perhaps every school building in the country that required replacing, and after that half the rate I mentioned would perhaps keep them going. These rates would hardly be felt. In regard to incidental allowance, we have managed so far to make ends meet, but we need to have an annual concert and also let the school. Alexander Bell examined on oath. (No. 108.) 1. To the Chairman.] I am Secretary and Assistant Inspector of Schools for the South Canterbury Education Board, and am also Secretary- of the Timaru High School Board. I have been in the Education service since 1887. I was a teacher for ten or twelve years. I was for eighteen months at Oamaru; then I entered the service of the South Canterbury Board, and have been in their employ ever since. My educational qualification is Al. I am a Master of Arts, with first-class honours, of the New Zealand University. I have prepared the following statement: Reduction of number of Education Boards : The Board considers it unfair to the smaller education districts that the Commission has passed by places like Timaru, especially as some of the proposals to be considered affect smaller districts more than the larger ones— e.g., the suggested combination of education districts. Previous to 1878 South Canterbury schools were administered from North Canterbury, and it was then found expedient to divide the district. There would be strong objections to the absorption of South Canterbury by North Canterbury or Otago, because all parts of South Canterbury are easily accessible from Timaru, and thus Board members and officials can make themselves conversant with the circumstances of the whole district, administration is easy, and the wants of all receive due consideration. If education districts are larger administration becomes more difficult, and individual schools will not receive the same attention from Boards, f have compared the cost of administration, exclusive of inspection of schools, in South Canterbury with that of larger districts, and find that there is little difference in cost per pupil in average attendance, though we have only one large school; and unless the cost of administration can be reduced there is no argument for combination of districts. There is a feeling that you might as well have centralization as education districts equal to half of each Island. District high schools : The salaries of the teachers of district high schools are too low; £30 per annum is not sufficient to pay to the headmaster for the extra work of controlling and organizing the secondary department, and if the headmaster is to take a live interest in the pupils he should take some small share in the teaching. It is impossible to get properly qualified male assistants at £180 for these departments; and when boys of fourteen to eighteen are taught, male assistants are necessary. In South Canterbury there are three district high schools with 164 pupils in the secondary departments. The total average salaries of the teachers provided by the present scale is £975. There is one secondary school in South Canterbury with about 150 pupils. The total of present salaries of the teachers is £2,120, and judging by, the difficulty- there is in getting suitable applications to fill vacancies when they occur these latter are not overpaid-:' Two of our district high schools have adopted the agricultural course, and I believe the Department is moving along right lines in instituting these courses. The giving of one day a week by the itinerant instructor to district high schools is not satisfactory. An assistant specially qualified to teach agricultural subjects should be on the staff of each school. Some provision should be made by the Government for training of teachers for agricultural schools. The number of subjects required by the Department's scheme should be reduced, and provision should be made to arrange the curriculum so that pupils preparing for Civil Service and Matriculation, could take the agricultural course. Rural schools : The South Canterbury Board is not inclined to approve of the proposed consolidation of rural schools. So far the Board has not heard of any practical scheme for consolidation of schools which would be less expensive than the present system, and would at the same time satisfy the people. In South Canterbury at the present time about £600 per annum is being paid for conveyance of children under the present system, and in this way the necessity for some small schools is avoided. The Board feels that the backblock settler needs sympathetic consideration in the matter of the education of his children, and has always established new 7 schools where a sufficient number of" children are prevented by distance from attending present schools without hardship and inconvenience. In some parts of the district schools were placed so as to suit earlier settlers, and more recently other schools have been established in intermediate positions to satisfy later
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settlers; so it has come that there are more schools than would be really necessary if the placing of schools were done now. It would, however, be an expensive and disagreeable business to rearrange matters. It is at present impossible to get efficient teachers for country schools, and more frequent inspection of the schools is necessary. Time spent in inspection of larger schools under efficient headmasters should be curtailed, and more attention should be devoted by • Inspectors to small schools. The teaching of many small schools is interfered with by the frequent change of teachers. A Board can prevent this to a certain extent by compelling teachers to stay a reasonable time before granting promotion, but other Boards in the present state of affairs are" too eager to accept teachers from outside districts who have been only a few weeks in positions. There should be some arrangement between Boards to stop this frequent change from school to school. Buildings : There has been great waste of public money in the past in the construction of school buildings, badly planned and ill suited in every way for their purpose, and, though there is a great improvement in the type of building being erected now, mistakes are still being made. Architects are not experts in school hygiene, and our teachers and children who have to occupy the gloomy, badly lighted and ventilated rooms are the sufferers. The Department should supply plans of school buildings, and thus save money wasted on unsuitable premises, and also the multiplication of the cost of the preparation of plans and specifications. 1 agree with all that was so well said by Mr. Howell yesterday when he contrasted the munificence of the Government in the provision of fine buildings for post-offices and railway-stations with their parsimony in the erection of school buildings. In South Canterbury there is a feeling that political influence is too often the determining factor when applications for buildings are being dealt with by the Government. Manual and technical : Now that the schemes for elementary handwork in schools are fairly launched, the Department should do all in its power to reduce the amount of clerical work imposed on teachers, Board's officers, and the departmental officers in preparing and checking returns and in the correspondence connected therewith. At one time the cost of the clerical work was in cases equal to the amount of the grants, and, while matters are not now so bad as they were, there is still room for improvement by which hundreds of pounds could be saved throughout the Dominion. I do not see why the efficiency of a school in manual work should not be judged by an Inspector in the same way as its efficiency in English or arithmetic. Then grants on a capitation basis could be made on the certificate of an Inspector, and thus most of the labour of preparing applications for recognition, programmes of work, claims for capitation, and much of the marking of registers would be saved. In the Sixth Standard examination as at present conducted no consideration is allowed to those pupils who spend hours per week in such subjects as cookery, woodwork, agriculture, and dairying. 1 feel that some allowance should be made, and I would suggest that candidates who satisfy the Inspectors that they have attended regularly a course of instruction in one or more of these subjects should be allowed to pass with a lower percentage of marks—say,' 10 per cent, lower. It was once our custom in South Canterbury to allow girls who were proficient in needlework to pass in arithmetic in their standard examinations with 10 per cent, less marks than boys, and the. proposal I make is only a revival of that custom. Our Director of Technical Education wishes me to point out to the Commission that, though Education Boards are the controlling authorities of " associated classes " and consequently the Boards have a great deal of work in connection with the organization and administration "of these classes, yet Boards are not allowed to retain one penny of the capitation or grants earned. We feel that Boards should be paid a little for their part m the work connected with associated classes. We also feel that some definite provision should be made for the maintenance and repair of technical-school buildings and equipment. At present there is no provision unless it is intended that money should be saved out of capitation for the purpose • and those who have to carry on such classes as woodwork and cookery in a district, like South Canterbury must know that nothing can be saved. Free books: The grants for free books are looked upon by many in my district as largely a waste of public money. Most parents prefer to buy their own" books, especially when their children are asked to use books previously in the hands of other children. Some of our school cupboards are full of unused free books. School Inspectors : As a School Inspector I feel that there should be some better system for the appointment pay, and promotion of Inspectors. Some Inspectors have been paid the ridiculously low salary of .£250 per annum, a lower salary than is paid to some assistants in our schools. There should be a colonial scale of salaries for Inspectors as well as for teachers, and the salaries should be provided by the The syllabus : Regarding the present syllabus, I believe it is a very good one, and that if reasonably interpreted it should be allowed to stand. A few amendments are necessary, but I have no sympathy with its criticism by many who appear to know very little about its aims and its contents. _ _ 2 To Mr Davidson.} With regard to the manual and technical work of the primary schools, I think we might now dispense with the method of payment by capitation, but we would need some special grant from the Government in a lump sum; that would meet my views exactly. Instruction in woodwork and cookery should be retained in the primary schools, because a great number of cur pupils never reach the secondary or technical schools. I think every girl should know something of the principles of cookery, and that every boy, possibly should have a training in handwork I think the present system of beginning this training at the Fifth Standard is satisfactory Ido not think compulsory continuation classes will be practicable, for some time to come at any rate, in a scattered district. Provided the pupils were taught these subjects some time before going to earn their living, I should not be so strongly m favour of the instruction being "iven in the primary schools. Judging by the trouble we have in shifting a school a mile or so I think it would be a difficult and unpleasant business to close unnecessary small schools in South Canterbury. Ido not think, however, that economy and efficiency in our education system should be sacrificed; but Boards are popularly elected bodies, and politicians are
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popularly elected, and the difficulty- is to get these men to stiffen their backs. I think it would lead to greater uniformity in the interpretation of the syllabus, and to better co-ordination of the primary and secondary and technical branches of our system, if the Inspectors were under the control of the central authority. The difficulty that would be raised would be this :at the present, time the Inspectors do a great deal of work for Education Boards in helping in the administration, and if they were under the Central Department there might be a difficulty between the Department and the Boards. This might be got over if they were permitted to act as advisors to the Boards. 3. To Mr. Wells.} I have already suggested that economy might be effected in respect to free school-books. This applies more particularly to the miscellaneous reader. A saving might be effected in the matter of numerous returns for technical work. Then, if the Government and Boards were a little more particular before granting new schools I think expense would be saved. There was an instance in South Canterbury where a school was granted by the Government though it was not supported by the South Canterbury Board's Inspectors. Ido not think there is much overlapping in South Canterbury., There is no day technical school in Timaru. As to the difficulty of getting teachers with a knowledge of agriculture, I think it might be possible to arrange for a number of young teachers in the Training College to spend a y-ear or so at some agricultural college, if it were properly equipped and staffed. If their course were lengthened some of them might be induced to face it, provided the inducements held out to them were good enough. 4. To Mr. Kirk.} I have not given much thought to the matter of reform in the construction and spelling of words, and should not care to express an opinion. 5. To Mr. Pirani.] Under our system of appointment of teachers, applications are advertised for by the Board, and these applications are gone through by the Chief Inspector. The Board, in consultation with the Chief Inspector, recommends names to the School Committee. Where possible two or three names are submitted to the Committee —sometimes four, often only one — and in the ordinary way the Committee makes the final selection. Where the Board sends only one name there has in certain cases been a fuss made by the Committee; but, generally, when an explanation is made and the reasons are shown the Committee is satisfied. As to the Auckland and Wanganui systems of classification of teachers, I believe that some such system would be an improvement on the present method in a large district, but not so much in a small one. If all the larger districts were to adopt promotion schemes, the teachers in the smaller districts would be hopelessly out of it. This might be an argument, from the teachers' point of view, in favour of abolishing the smaller districts. I think the same object might be attained without abolishing the districts: some s} 7 stem of promotion might be devised which would avoid the abolition of the small districts. 6. To the Chairman.} I think the limitation of the choice of Committees to a single name would have to some extent a prejudicial effect on the interests of School Committees in their work. As to whether the same class of men would come forward for service if the Committees' choice were thus limited, I do not think it would have a great influence. For the sake of the children men would still take an interest in the School Committees. Then, again, School Committees are a kind of training-ground for our County Councillors, &c. If South Canterbury were included in North Canterbury- I do not think it would reduce the cost of administration materially, and, in my opinion, the question of the promotion of teachers might be got over without abolishing the South Canterbury Board. Our technical schools are what they call associated classes, and the Board is the controlling authority. 7. To Mr. Davidson.] The objection to pupil-teachers or probationers being appointed to schools with an average attendance of between thirty and forty is that frequently such schools are under teachers of not high enough standing to have the training of a junior teacher. A few of these schools are under the control of a highly qualified woman, but not many. Some of these schools are under teachers with E certificates. I would hardly recommend that a teacher with an E certificate should have the training of a junior teacher. There would not be the same objection where these schools are in charge of qualified and experienced teachers. I think with regard to these schools that the salary of a teacher of a Grade 3 school should be as high as that of a teacher of a Grade 4 school. 8. To the Chairman.] When a Grade 3 school in charge of a woman has advanced to Grade 4, the South Canterbury Board has not in the past replaced the woman with a male teacher. Matthew Dalziel further examined. (No. 109.) 1. To Mr. Pirani.] As to the cost of single desks —the latest desks that we have supplied are those which the Commission saw at Somerfield yesterday. Those desks cost us 18s. 6d each. But they were made in our own workshops and were an experiment, and I am told by our architect that we could now make those desks in our workshops for 16s. or 16s. 6d. Barninghams supply us with the ironwork and we do the woodwork. 2. To Mr. Hogben.} In these desks the seat is fastened to the desk behind. George Penlington examined on oath. (No. 110.) 1. the Chairman.} I am architect under the North Canterbury Board of Education, and have been so engaged for five or six years. Prior to that I was assistant under the late architect for about ten years. 2. To Mr. Kirk.} I have no objection to the appointment of a Dominion Architect for Schools, to whom the local architects could forward all their plans. This might be a step in the right direction, and in particular perhaps with respect to school furniture. It is a thing that I should advocate in particular with regard to desks.
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3. To Mr. We recognize that the Normal School is very- much out of date, from the point of view of ventilation, warmth, and light, At a normal school the conditions should be abeut the same, I should say, as the students will have to contend with when they have a school of their own in the country. It is no more expensive to erect an up-to-date building like that at Somerfield than it used to be, years ago, to put up the buildings that were erected then. Our experience lately has been that the brick buildings, if anything, have been cheaper. The last four buildings we have had done in brick—the Addington, Somerfield, Spreydon, and Woolston Schools —and the cost of these works out at about Bs. 2d. per foot of floor-space over all, whereas the last four wooden buildings worked out at 9s. a foot, and the wooden ones are smaller. I should certainly recommend that buildings should not be erected in wood nowadays. They should be of brick and stone in all cases where it is possible to procure bricks and stone at a reasonable cost. With regard to a Dominion Architect, I would quite approve of there being conferences of Boards' architects periodically, presided over by the Dominion Architect : that would practically mean that you would have a committee of experts. In all cases local conditions should be taken into consideration. 4. To Mr. Hogben?, With reference to my figures as to the cost of building in brick, we admit that the prices have been low; but the schools were built at the figure f have given. As to whether the contractors have lost, they do not come back a second time as a rule. 5. To the Chairman?, I am satisfied that it is possible to provide a better class of school, in respect of ventilation and lighting and other desiderata, than a wooden school in every case. As to whether it would be better if, instead of having a Dominion Architect, there were attached to the Department an expert in ventilation and heating whose advice would be placed at thdisposal of the Board's architect before his plans would be finally settled, without interfering with the application of his knowledge of local conditions to the particular case, I would approve of this, but have not given any consideration as to which would be preferable of the two. If plans had to be approved in Wellington by an expert before tenders could be called for, the tendency would be for similarity in design, but this expert could not bring the schools into line unless in many cases he altered the plan altogether. George Thomas Booth examined on oath. (No. 111.) 1. To the Chairman? I am a member of the firm of Booth, McDonald, and Co. I am an ex-president of the Christchurch Chamber of Commerce. I suppose the common-school education system must be taken to have proved itself a success so far as it goes, but in my opinion it is disappointing in its general results, and I think the reason is that too much has been expected from- the teaching of the rudiments of education—what are commonly known as the three Rs. It is not reasonable to expect that teaching boys and girls to read and write and do simple sums is going to make good men and women and good citizens of them. After all, that is what a good many of us have expected of the education system, and in that respect f do not think it has fulfilled expectations. Of course, it is desirable that boys or girls should be taught to read and write, that they should have the mechanical equipment necessary to enable them to educate themselves or to absorb education as they get along in life; but in my opinion it is far more desirable that a boy or girl should be taught and trained to be a decent useful citizen, and to that end there should be continuous and insistent moral and ethical training, not necessarily religious— at any rate, not sectarian. And Ido not think there should be any special item in the curriculum to cover this element in the teaching they should get in the schools, but that the teachers should be trained to make the enforcement of morality a strong feature of their work; it is that which should inform and inspire their work all the way through and pervade the whole of their teaching. The aim should be not only to teach the rudiments and mechanics of education, but to develop ethical qualities, such as are commonly grouped together in what we call character, manliness or womanliness, self-control, courage, gentleness, honesty, truthfulness, decency, selfrespect, cleanliness of body and mind. Headmasters particularly should be chosen for their character and their gift for impressing character. Inspectors should pay special attention to it. There are many splendid men and women in the profession, but to me it seems a waste of good material and of fine qualities to have them devote themselves almost exclusively, as they must do, to the teaching of the very elements, particularly in the routine fashion in which they have to be taught when large, numbers of children have to be handled in mass, and when they have to keep before their eyes all the time the periodical examinations and the visits of the Inspectors. If the schools could be made to develop character and turn out good citizens they would serve a good purpose, and we could well afford to let the three Rs go to some extent, and at any rate relax the machine-like routine which is inevitable in these large schools and large classes, and which tends to suppress originality and character rather than to develop them. You may ask what chance the naturally smart boy would have under such circumstances. I should sa} 7 that the ordinarily smart bo3 7 will make his way anyhow : he will have plenty of opportunities. But for the average boy it is far more important that he should be taught to be manly, gentle, honest, a gentleman in heart and in manner, than that he should be able to spell hard words correctly or recite the names of all the mountains of Europe. Then I think, in addition to the inculcation of what for want of a better term one may call "morals," there ought to be a more practical view taken in the schools of the subsequent practical daily life of the boys and girls as citizens and members of the community. I am not an expert in educational matters, and I cannot tell you just how this should be done; but it seems to me that the system as at present practised fails in that respect. It turns out boys and girls in any quantity who can read and write and do simple arithmetic —a good deal more than that, of course; but for the most part they are glad to throw their school-books aside as soon as they
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have got through their course and feel that they have done with them for ever, and what they have learnt in the school is not necessarily calculated to make better men and women of them .as the3 7 grow up. If it is possible to rearrange the subjects taught in the order of the importance so as to have more attention paid to matters that will affect their future lives as men and women who have to take their part in the battle of life, I think we could veiy well afford to let some of the other routine subjects suffer in comparison. I think, for instance, it should be possible in the schools to impart some kind of knowledge —in a very elementary way, of course —in the elements of political economy*. These boys and girls presently will be voters; they will have to help elect the Legislature; they will have to vote in municipal affairs, and all that sort of tiring; yet they get their training in that direction now in the most haphazard kind of way. Of course, you cannot do very much in the primary schools in the way of teaching political economy, but I think some little instruction might be given that would, at any rate, be in the right direction, and give the minds of the boys and girls a tendency to develop along right lines later on. But I put first of all character, and Ido not want to do it in any preaching way at all. I place it first, not because I have any special religious bias or anything of that sort, but because, after all, character is the fundamental thing, ft is not a bit of use turning out boys and girls who can read and write if they have not any moral restraint or moral sanctions to determine and regulate their conduct; in fact, it is just a question whether a purely secular education without any of these restraints or sanctions may not be a harmful thing rather than a good thing. 2. To Mr. Davidson.] We were told when the education system was in its infancy that if we taught every boy to read and write we should not need so many gaols and policemen and lunatic asylums, and that, altogether, society was going to be regenerated by education. Well, the kind of education that it is possible to impart in these primary schools is not going to regenerate society in my opinion. If there is in the syllabus a paragraph that deals with character-building on the lines I suggest I am very glad to know it. In the selection of teachers I would place a high value upon their character and the likelihood of their impressing it upon those under their charge. 3. To Mr. Kirk.] I come in contact a good deal with the youth of the town. I have noticed in several individual cases that the effect of the routine work in the schools is rather to suppress originality than to encourage it; I am afraid this is almost unavoidable when you have to treat children in a mass. If the system could be made to develop mental activity —to build grist-mills instead of granaries—it would probably serve a much more useful purpose than it does. The training of the mind I indicate should begin in trie primary schools. I am not prepared to say whether I would favour the compulsory attendance at continuation schools of those who do not go to secondary- schools. 4. To Mr. Pirani.] It may be that it is the parents who want educating in the respect I have alluded to more than the children, but you cannot get hold of the parents. Very likely the trouble is to a very large extent that parents neglect their duties in regard to moral teaching. Instruction by teachers cannot take the place of home-teaching entirely. 5. To Mr. Kirk.] My firm pays apprentices' fees already at the Engineering School, but not for instruction during working-hours. I do not think it is necessary to let boys off during working-hours to attend school, and I doubt very much whether it is advisable. I think it highly important that they should study, but the work in the shop is equally important, and the one should not be sacrificed for the other. 6. To Mr. Wells.} As to boys being too tired after a full day's work to do justice to the technical-school work, all I can say is that I have had three boys myself who have gone through it, and it has not broken them down. 7. To. Mr. Hogben.] I should say there is hardly one man in Christchurch, or in any industrial place, who confines his labour to forty-seven hours a week. An average man can work much longer than that, and leave himself time for reasonable enjoyment. The average boy would be all the better for being kept at work during the evening in addition to the forty-seven hours of manual work in a shop, for instance. Four or five hours a week should not do a boy any harm at all. I did not know that the German educational authorities had a prejudice against evening work. I have not the highest opinion of what is commonly called technical-school education : you cannot teach a boy a trade in a technical school. 8. To the Chairman.} As far as L,know of German education they aim rather at producing highly efficient managers —superior men —they do not devote so much attention to the mechanical training of individual mechanics, and so on, as is done in England. lam quite aware that in many States of Germany there are trade schools which teach the theoretical portion of the trade as thoroughly as it is possible to teach it. I say that the theoretical portion should be taught in trade schools. I have not had an opportunity of studying the German system at first hand. I think that an apprentice learning a trade can quite well work his forty-seven hours a week in the shop and get the theoretical training that will be of most service to him in other hours. I do not think there would be breakdowns with the average boy if the youths were called upon to supplement their education by attending a continuation school. John Albert Blank examined on oath. (No 112.) 1. To the Chairman.} I am the Truant Officer under the North Canterbury Education Board. I. have been so engaged for fifteen years. In connection with the employment of young children interfering with their school duties, I am sure they suffer very much more down South and in the North Island than we do here. As to boys being taken away from their school duties in the afternoon and employed in skating-rinks, and so on, a few years ago this was prevalent, but it is not so rife now. Inducements are held out to children to attend such places, but there are very few really who are taken away. I should say there is not 1 per cent, in Christchurch that
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we have trouble with. I have not heard of boys being taken from school immediately after the morning vacation and employed as caddies on golf-links. The teachers here are very careful to keep the boys when they are at school. If there aro such cases they have not come under my notice. As to whether the people here are favourably inclined towards a measure of compulsion in order to get hold of those children who do not* reach the Sixth Standard, 1 think we are at- a time when the bulk of the people would be "willing to assist the authorities in furthering 'the educationof their children. The percentage of those who are indifferent and careless I put down really at less than 1 per cent, to-day. Ten years ago I should say there were 10 per cent. I do not think we should now find ten indifferent parents in a thousand. So far as my knowledge goes the parents' desire to-day is altogether different from what it was a few years ago. I attribute this to the inducements held out by the technical school. 2. To Mr, Kirk.] I am not frequently in the town at night. I must admit that boys who have not attended school frequent the theatre at night. Information has reached me with respect to certain children who fail to ■attend school, and they are usually found in the theatre. I do not think the work those children are doing is of any use, but is highly injurious to their health and to their morals also. 1 think we have scarcely any boys and girls employed in the streets. The by-law that we have here has, I think, done away with boys selling papers. I have a few remarks that I should like to make concerning attendance at school. The Factory Act and the Education Act are not in accord with each other. The Factory Act permits of a child starting to work if he has passed the Fourth Standard, without making any provision as to age. The two Acts should be in line. A number of children I find go to work when they are not fit to leave school. During the year we have had to take out some ten to fifteen children from different places. Another point I w-ish to bring up is with respect to the conveyance of children to school from outlying districts. I should like to know whether the people are compelled to send the children to school when a conveyance is engaged. Is a vehicle a public vehicle, or can they go as they like, regularly or irregularly? According to my reading of the law any child whose parent undertakes the conveyance of children by vehicle is supposed to attend as regularly as though he were living within the radius. I have brought the question before the Education Board, but I think the matter is not settled. Then, again, I think better provision could be made than there is in existence at the present time with respect to the removal of children from one school to another. There is a leakage in the way of attendance on this account. At the present moment I have the names of two or three families who have left: we do not know where they are, and we have to wait until some kind friend sends word. I think that in such cases the parents should report the transfer to the Truant Officer. Parents should be forced to tell where they are going. Then, with regard to the desire of parents to send their children to work, there is a leakage here which we try to meet as far as we possibly can. The employers are given to understand that the children are fourteen, and we lose the run of a number of children for perhaps three or four months of the later stage of their educational life. Where employers recklessly engage children some provision should be made, I think, whereby they should be fined as well as the jtarents. I think that if children have failed to pass a certain standard they should be forced to attend school until they do pass that standard. This would be one of the best means of compelling more regular attendance during the earlier part of a child's life at school. 3. To Mr. Wells.] There are by-laws here by which newsboys must be licensed. The restriction is chiefly as to their entering publichouses and places of public resort. There is a restriction as to age, that age being, I think, twelve years. I think no boy or girl should be allowed to sell papers after eight o'clock. It is the system in this district for the teacher at a school to send in a return to me at the end of the month concerning the children who have left school. Wherever possible this return states where the child has gone; but there are a few cases that seem to evade us purposely. It would be a good thing if I got returns giving full details regarding the children who have left during the month, and also returns showing the children admitted. 4. To Mr. Davidson.} 1 am the only Truant Officer employed by the North Canterbury Education Board. As to the possibility of extending the conveyance system and consolidating many of the small country schools, in some cases now the distance is so great that the law does not apply, and by removing some of the schools the trouble would become more acute, unless other provision were made. There are some very small schools that might be closed with advantage and the children conveyed. I would not expect the percentage of attendance in this district to be as high as in Otago or Auckland, because in these places a greater number of children are more isolated, and where schools are isolated they are closed more often than they are in the towns. They are very often closed when they have not half the attendance, which occurs very rarely in the cities. This counts in favour of the attendance at the particular school or district. The surroundings of Christchurch are such that no matter what the weather was like, in ninetyfive cases out of a hundred the attendance would be over half, whereas in small schools in country districts it would be under half. This would count against us and in favour of the country districts. I think that if the attendance were not counted in this way we should be a long way above any 7 other district in attendance. 5. To Mr. Hogben.] I admit that a child under fourteen cannot be employed in a factory without a permit, but these permits are sometimes given by the Inspector of Factories when he has made very little inquiry concerning the children. In a number of cases I have been to factories and brought the children back to school again. I think it would meet the case if the Factory Inspector were directed to make inquiry of the schoolmaster before issuing a permit. The employer has only to ask whether a boy has passed the Fourth Standard and whether he has a permit. I think it should be necessary for a boy to show what standard he has passed. There should be something to assure the employer that he is safe in employing the boy. 6. To Mr. Kirk.] As to boys selling papers, I should not think it desirable for my boy.even at fourteen to be out standing round corners at night,
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Charles Edmund Bevan-Brown examined on oath. (No. 113.) 1. To the Chairman?, I am Principal of the Boys' High School in Christchurch. I have been so for twenty years. lam a Master of Arts of Oxford. I was formerly- a scholar of Lincoln College, Oxford. I have prepared the following statement : Overlapping : There must necessarily be a certain amount of overlapping. It is not expected or even, desired that the majority of primary pupils should proceed to the secondary schools, consequently for them there must be some complete training in primary subjects than would be necessary for those coining on to secondary schools. The words "primary" and "secondary" are rather misleading; they denote different kinds of education rather than two systems following the one on the other like two cars in a railway-train. Recent aspects of primary training :We do not find the pupils from primary schools quite so well grounded in essentials as formerly; they seem to try and cover too much ground, perhaps too much also is done for them; they seem lacking in initiatives and ability to tackle new problems. In particular I think the comparative neglect of grammar a great mistake; the elaborate formal parsing of old days was a useless burden, but the pendulum has gone too far in the other direction, and primary pupils of the Sixth Standard come to us not knowing such elementary tilings as the parts of speech or the distinction between active and passive, and subject and object. Training of teachers : Although I think personality and knowledge, and certain innate qualities, the great essentials for a schoolmaster, I have long been of opinion that he should go through a course of training in the history and theory of education and methods of teaching, provided the right men can be got to train; mere text-book knowledge crammed for an examination is useless, nor is it enough to set up a training school; the important point is the kind of men who are to be the staff Life can only be quickened by life, and the very best staff is needed for such an institution. Education Department and secondary schools: I think the Education Department has an ample say (along with the University)—in fact, almost too much —by means of the elaborate syllabus of its examinations in the curriculum of secondary schools. We in New Zealand are fettered by examinations more than the best schools at Home, which I found were emancipating themselves from the work of preparing for any outside examinations. I should be exceedingly sorry to see introduced here the cast-iron uniformity of, say, the schools of France, which all have the same syllabus mapped out to the smallest detail, so that the Minister can almost say 7 what each class is doing at a given hour in all the lycees or secondary schools in France. English minds at any rate demand a little elasticity, freedom, and room to develop on individual lines; and I repeat that the demands of the University- and Government examinations do not allow enough freedom even at present. With regard to the inspection of secondary schools, I think the number of central Inspectors should be increased, and men of great experience in secondary-school work and methods appointed who are specialists in various branches, so that there may be enough high-class men who are experts to spend some time in the various departments of secondary-school work. At present the inspection is too short, and too cursory, and too official, and is of little use to secondary schools. It is not to be expected that two men can have the time or knowledge to adequately gauge the varied work of all the high schools as well as district high schools in the Dominion. The Inspectors should have friendly conferences with the Principal and staff, and from their experience and knowledge it should be possible to gain great advantage. I think vocational training so-called undesirable at secondary schools. It has a pleasant sound for the modern practical mind, but the best training at school for a lad, whether he is to be a doctor, lawyer, schoolmaster, business man, or even engineer, is a good all-round training of body, mind, and character, and of these the last is the most important. Even from a commercial point of view of future success in life, the best asset is character. There must be a certain choice of subjects, according to a boy's capacity and his probable length of stay. Some boys have no aptitude for foreign languages, and some stay so short a time that it would not be profitable for them to learn Latin. But the special training for a profession for engineering, &c, should come after the secondary-school course, and for a business career I suppose we should none of us like a school turned into a miniature stock exchange as in the American school depicted by Stevenson. It is a great mistake, even for typewriting, book-keeping, and shorthand to take up the time of secondary schools as a preparation for business; a real business man wants an alert mind and a sound character; there is a certain educative value in book-keeping, but I believe business men distrust school book-keeping; and the other two are mechanical accomplishments which can be learnt at will later on. Definite trades like plumoing, cabinetmaking, &c, of course, should be taught at trade or technical schools. Secondary schools should prepare for the professions, for higher walks of business, for engineering and for farming; and for all these, I repeat, the best preparation is a general training, which will make a foundation of character and intelligence for the specialized vocational training to build on. At Lincoln agricultural school they like best boys who have been through a sound general course, including mathematics and science. The Principal of Lincoln College when asked his opinion at the Wellington Conference as to the teaching of agriculture at schools said he did not recommend it, for two reasons: "first," said he, "you can't do it, and secondly, it can't be done." I think it would be dangerous to appoint itinerant lecturers to lecture on sexual physiology in schools. Talks on such subjects should be in a religious atmosphere. Parents are undoubtedly the right people to talk to their sons. I know they frequently do not, and hence the wish for public lectures. But I fear that these, while possibly helping some, may 7do harm to many, owing partly to the talk and comment they will arouse afterwards, and to the danger of encouraging the imagination to dwell on these subjects. I think that, if possible, any talking to the school on the subject should be done by the schoolmaster himself. I certainly think each schoolmaster should speak to his boys on the subject of manliness, and warn them as to personal habits, avoiding detail. A detailed talk, it seems to me, should be personal and varied according to the character of the boy. Perhaps a boarding schoolmaster
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should speak more plaintly than a day schoolmaster as he is in loco parentis. The whole question is difficult and needs handling with great judgment, and wholesome suggestion is probably wiser than scientific talk. I think the tests for entry on junior free places in secondary schools might be made somewhat mere stringent. I think the great need of education in New Zealand, as elsewhere, is the providing of greater remuneration for teachers of all grades, and affording a better prospect for men to enter on a scholastic career. Thus only will men of parts and promise be attracted to enter and stay in the profession, unless they willingly enter on a life of self-denial. Enormous sums are often spent on buildings; in America the buildings and equipment are most elaborate, but the teachers poorly paid. Mr. Moseley, the promoter of the Education Commission which went to America, told me, on hearing that a bequest of £10,000 had been left to his and my old school, that he thought the wisest thing to do with it was to use it as a fund to raise the salaries of assistant masters, and that the great need for education was to raise the status and standing of teachers. 2. To Mr. Kirk.] As to spelling reform, as far as I am at present advised I am against it. I think the difficulty is greatly magnified. Spelling is a matter of eye memory, and although words are not pronounced as they are spelt in English, the eye of a normal child soon remembers the spelling. There are some people who never would spell even if you made the language phonetic. I do not think the slight amount of alleviation would be worth the mutilation of the language. There is no foundation for the suggestion that pupils in our secondary- schools undergo a system of cramming; they undergo a system of strain—of too hard work. Five subjects have to be kept up to Junior University Scholarship mark, and it makes too heavy a strain on students of seventeen. At our Secondary School Conference, and also at the General Conference held in Wellington two years ago, resolutions were passed asking the University to demand only four subjects instead of five, thinking this would lessen the strain. There has not been sufficient teaching of history and civics in the schools, but it has improved a little. The reason for this is that we are necessarily to a large extent guided and hampered by the University examinations, and if a boy wanted to obtain a Junior University Scholarship it would be a ruinous thing for him to take history. Similarly if he wanted to get a good place in the Junior Civil Service Examination; whereas English counted 600 marks, history only counted 200. The University, however, has made an alteration, so that a boy taking history and geography can score nearly as many marks as a boy taking two branches of science. My opinion is that history and civics are most important. 3. To Mr. Wells.] The boys we are getting now do not seem to be so well grounded in essentials as the boys of fourteen or fifteen years ago. By " essentials " I mean history and arithmetic. I say the difference is marked, but I would not say it is very marked. At the High School new 7 boys are put in three classes, the worst in C and the best in A, and in making my comparison I am taking the A boys in each case. Ido not think that fifteen years ago the scholarship age ran up to fifteen. In my opinion a certain amount of overlapping is desirable. Probably the pupils now receiving instruction at the West Christchurch District High School could be taught at either the High School or the Technical School. I would differentiate in the work required of girls as compared with boys. Cooking and so on are essential for girls. 4. To Mr. Davidson.] When I spoke of the training of teachers I referred to secondaryschool teachers as weli as primary-school teachers. We have at the Boys' High School a substitute for Latin for boys who do not take Latin. I do not think that any subject should be taken up in a secondary school that has not an educative value. I find that the boys from my school who do best in business are by no means those who take the so-called commerical course. I do not think agriculture is a thing for a secondary school. 5. To Mr. Hogben.] My advice to parents is, " If your boy is an intelligent boy and can spend four or five years at a secondary school, unless he shows he is a duffer and cannot do languages, let him go through the ordinary course and do Latin, and not take commercial subjects such as book-keeping." 6. To the Chairman\.] The institutions giving secondary instruction here are Christ's College, the. Boys' High School, the Girls' High School, and the West Christchurch District High School. In the neighbourhood of Christchurch there are several district high schools. In the old days we got a lot of country boys at my school; now this source of supply is cut off. We had eighty new boys this last term. With respect to some of the boys who get free education at the district high schools, it would not be worth while for the State to give them a secondary education proper; they would probably only stay a year or eighteen months. My Board of Governors and I were opposed to the indiscriminate giving of free places, and we tried to hold out for free places to be given on qualifications 3a and 3b only. The consequence was that under the late Mr. Seddon's Government the West Christchurch District High School was opened so that all holders of proficiency certificates might have free places. Then the Government modified the regulations to a certain extent; so that at the Boys' High School we do not take all proficiency-holders. We take those who on our own examination are as good as the boys who hold the Government free place through passing the Free Place Examination. We take a certain number, but not all. We take those who in our opinion can profitably work with those who have taken the trouble to go in for the Junior Free Place Examination. One thing which ought to be remedied is that the majority of parents and some of the masters do not seem to know of the Junior Free Place Examination. Mary Victoria Gibson examined on oath. (No. 114.) 1. To the Chairman.] I am Lady Principal of the Girls' High School, and have been in that position for thirteen years, and was previously teacher at the East Christchurch School for eight or nine years, and in Sydenham before that. I have been teaching in Christchurch for twentyeight years, and hold the degree of Master of Arts at the New Zealand University. There is a
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great lack of any special training for expert secondary-school teachers in New -Zealand. Every one must realize that the efficiency of the school depends almost entirely upon the efficiency of the teachers. In our secondary-school departments, and in the upper classes, there are bound --to be expert teachers, and if we come to consider where the teachers are to come from and of the training provided for them, it will be found that there is a terrible lack of proper provision for them. Take the case of the girls coming to us with scholarships, and holding them right through till they go to the-University, and taking their B.A. at the end of the third year. They often come to a point when they can get no training whatever. If they try to find chances at the Training College they are told they have to wait till there are vacancies. Of our staff of nine teachers at present only two of them (both have been teaching for nine years) have been pupilteachers. None of the others have had any special training as teachers at all. This state of affairs is leading to a great dearth of secondary teachers. Girls from my school have gone to the Wellington, Auckland, and Nelson schools : they have had no training. There is a great need of proper provision for secondary-school teachers. In regard to the funds at the girls' secondary sclrools, these do not receive the same financial assistance as the Boys' High Schools. It depends upon the conditions of the place, and the conditions are very different. Even in most cases where the control of fhe boys' and the girls' high schools is under the same Board, you will find that the boys get better treatment than the girls. The salaries paid to teachers in the secondary schools in New Zealand are very- low. The Board of Governors have done all they can to try to raise the salaries at the Girls' High School. It is an important matter that the secondary schools should be kept well staffed, because the main duty of the primary school is to produce type, and the main duty of the secondary school is to try and draw out individual merit. As to the general standard of the children who come from the schools : Ten or twelve years ago there were no district high schools and no free places. The children who canre on were children who came through the primary classes, and they came in as scholarship-holders. A great deal of attention was given them in the primary schools, and given them by the teachers to enable them to take the scholarships. Naturally they came well prepared. Now it is different. Why should the teachers give a great deal of attention to a few children when free places are available? I believe there has been a raising in the general standard. The composition is freer than it used to be, but there is a great deal of bad style. I believe in having more general geography; too much time is spent in mathematical geography, and that is due to the readingbooks being kept too much on New Zealand. lam not in. favour of any differences in boys' and girls' scholarships. If two branches of science are required for the University entrance scholarship two sciences should be included which are in keeping with the girls' work. Botany is not a girl's subject. I want biology included as a subject. It is not included at present. A question that affects girls more than boys is the better provision of the boarding arrangements of the scholarship-holders. At present the allowances are paid to the parents, and in many cases there is nothing whatever to insist upon those children living in the best houses. A good many of those children are country children, and they think they get good board for 15s. per week. Allowances should only be paid where the children are boarding in decent places, and the allowances should be spent on board without any part of it going into the pockets of the parents. 2. To Mr. Pirani.] I do not think our school would be better under the Board of Education than under the Board of Governors. I should regret to see that. We have had to build a wing to accommodate free-place pupils, and we have purchased a playground. I cannot criticize the Board of Governors in their management. 1 know the school is suffering from lack of funds. 3. To. Mr. Kirk.] The library has fallen off a good deal. I find books of a better class are taken out. We never teach history without geography. lam strongly opposed to phonetic spelling. We have upper and lower school libraries. Ido not suggest a conference between teachers in the primary schools and in the secondary schools. The primary schools have their conferences and the secondary schools theirs. Both are in touch with the Education Department. I do not think that such a conference would keep them in closer touch. There are three private schools for girls, besides the convents, in Christchurch. I do not think the children are overexamined. Any overexamination now is due to the parents. We do not have much formal examination in the Girls' High School. 4. To Mr. Wells.] The training of the secondary-school teachers could be taken partly at the Training College and partly in the secondary schools. If the secondary- schools were controlled by the Education Board I think that would effect it. We have'a boardinghouse in connection with our school, but the scholarship-holders do not go to it. We charge £1 per week. 5. To the Chairman.] There is no great need for a boarding-school, part and parcel of the school, in Christchurch. Not many come to board here. If a large number were coming to the school I think to start a boarding establishment would be a good thing, but not under present conditions. It was an advantage to me to be trained as a pupil-teacher. I do not think it is altogether necessary. The present primary-school course is quite sufficient for preparation for the secondary course. Five per cent, of the girls who come to the Girls' High School are not good enough. Isaac A. Bernstein examined on oath. (No. 115.) 1. To the Chairman.] I am a Jewish rabbi in Christchurch. Seeing that religious instruction in the primary schools has been prominently brought under your notice, I beg to offer a modest suggestion which I feel, if carried out, should go a long way towards settling this contentious question by being satisfactory both to the religionist and the secularist. My suggestion is that the following ten fundamental principles of morality, which are a perfect translation of the Hebrew words known now as "commandments," but which latter word is not correct nor in my opinion, as suitable for the purpose, should be suitably printed and hung in all schools of
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the Dominion —knowledge of them to be essential from, say, Standard 111 upwards. 1 feel certain that an unbiased consideration by the majority of parents would result in obtaining their support and approval of the scheme. The wording should read as follows: —"The Ten Principles: (1.) I am the Eternal, thy God. (2.) Thou shalt have no other God. (3.) Thou shall not take God's name in vain. (4.) Remember the Sabbath day to sanctify it. (5.) Honour thy father and thy mother. (6.) Thou shalt not commit murder. (7.) Thou shalt not commit adultery. (8.) Thou shalt-not steal. (9.) Thou shalt not bear false testimony. (10.) Thou shall not covet anything belonging to thy neighbour." Firstly, I have adopted the word "principle" because, according to Johnson and Webster, it is the very best word in English that conveys the original Hebrew expression, as the definition given by the authorities mentioned is that " principle " means a source of origin; a fundamental truth or tenet; an original element which characterizes some substance, and from which it may be obtained by analysis. Hence they should be known as "The ten principles." Now to amplify: (1.) "I am the Eternal, thy God." The Hebrewword for " I am," which is " 00-now-he," is a comprehensive word carrying within itself the simplest and best definition of the first or primal cause and everlasting Creator, and also is given in Exodus iii, 14, as the definition of the All-mighty—which definition is best expressed in the English word "eternal." So you will at once perceive it makes the second and third principle better understood and appreciated. The fourth principle requires a little explanation. The word " sabbath " simply means rest. Hence to remember the rest-day to keep it holy becomes perfectly satisfactory to the Christian on the first day, the Mohammedan on the sixth, and the Jew on the seventh day of the week. By not including the concluding portion of the fourth as it appears in Exodus no contentious matteris introduced. The fifth, sixth, seventh, eighth, and ninth are now so enjoined upon us by legislative action as to require no comment, and the tenth " principle " against covetousness must commend itself to all. In introducing this suggestion to the Commission I wish to emphasize that I -appear simply as a religionist, and not as representative of the Hebrew congregations, of which I have the honour to be the minister. I shall be pleased to further amplify the " principles " to any member of the Commission if desired. Mary Shirtcliffe examined on oath. (No. 116.) 1. To the Chairman.]-! am infant-mistress at the Addington School. 1 have prepared the following statement : So much time, thought, and money have been expended in recent years on the technical and secondary schools that I sometimes think the primary infant schools are overshadowed, even almost forgotten. If the end of education is to evolve good citizens of strongconstitutions and sound principles, surely the physical, mental, and moral development of our little ones should be our first consideration. I wish therefore to place before you certain facts bearing on our infant-school work. Staff: At the present time the infant-school staffs consist of one or two young assistants, according to the headmaster's decision, and younger pupil-teachers, the latter, through lack of sufficient assistants, teaching classes of from forty to sixty, and even seventy- pupils. As there is a change of pupil-teachers every two years, one can easily deduce the fact that the infant-mistress is continually- training pupil-teachers from whom she gets very little benefit. Formerly pupil-teachers were appointed for four years; then the third- and fourth-year pupil-teachers were of material assistance, and the school and district benefited from their continuous work. Now they leave just as they become useful. I venture to think that a system which allows young irresponsible first-year pupil-teachers to teach forty to sixtypupils is open to criticism; and it is a fallacy to class a matriculated boy or girl as a thirdyear pupil-teacher—their actual teaching experience is nil. Had the additional assistants mentioned on page 78, column 6, of the Education Act been appointed this great weakness would have been avoided. One can easily see that in a school with an average of over six hundred pupils comprising sixth standard and five infant classes, nine assistants, including the infantmistress, are not sufficient to free the pupil-teachers from actual responsibility. ■ The infantmistress is busy on an average of one hour per day interviewing parents and new scholars, doing clerical work, and attending to the moral tone of her pupils. With every deference to my superiors, I think it would be better if would-be aspirants for the teaching profession were, after matriculating, to enter the Normal Training College for two years, gain their certificates and theoretical and practical school knowledge, and then be appointed as junior assistants in the different schools for three or four years at a graded salary of £70, £80, and £90 per annum. During that time they would gain their teaching-marks, and the schools and districts a continuous service of young women who would naturally strain at improvement. But only those who show a distinct knowledge of, and love for child-nature should be admitted to our infant schools. The tender plant is easily bruised. Size of classes : Fifty, sixty, seventy, or eighty infants form too large classes for practical individual teaching. No matter how 7 keen and energetic an assistant may be, what chance has she got for individual reading, questions on and explanations of reading-matter, if she has to hear seventy to eighty children read in thirty minutes? That works out at about 22J seconds for each pupil. Or take tables—that bete noi'r of infant-school work : A class of, say, sixty babies five years old have to be taught all that is contained in figure 5. This is merely a shape and a name to the little ones —there is nothing to indicate it contains —Addition, 4+l, 1+ 4, 3+ 2, 2+ 3, 2 + 2+l, I+l+l +1+ 1, 5+ 0; subtraction, 5-5, 5-4, 5-3, 5-2, 5-1; multiplication, sxl, Ixs, 2x2 +1; division, 5+ 4, 5+ 3, 5+ 2, s+l. With infinite patience and labour the teacher sets to work, with bricks, beads, 8.8. pictures, to teach these four rules of arithmetic. The lessons are of twenty minutes' duration —that gives twenty seconds individual work to each child. Is it any wonder that the teacher becomes overstrained, and all but the few clever children muddled ? In view of my long experience I emphatically assert that infant classes should not exceed the maximum of forty
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pupils if the child's reasoning faculties are to be educated. Syllabus: The syllabus of the preparatory classes, as set forth in the Education Act, is not, in my opinion, excessive were the smaller and an assistant appointed to each class. But in the larger schools we do about double the work prescribed. Tables are oto 20; we teach 0. to 40, with multiplication to 7 x 12, money table, and measurement to yard, with slate work to correspond. Two reading-books . are -prescribed : we have to get through about eight, and promote a large portion of our classes every four months. This extra work is a constant strain to both pupils and teacher. Yet it has been explained to me that if we did not get through this extra work the standard teachers could not cope with the overloaded syllabus. The infant department is therefore suffering from the syllabus demanded from the senior standards. If I kept-to the prescribed syllabus all children could be promoted, except the mentally deficient, to Standard I by seven or seven and a half years; but if f have to do half of Standard I work the preparatory average age must be higher. We must also remember that although the majority of children come to school at five years of age, yet for the first year their attendance is often very irregular, especially in very hot or cold weather. Childish ailments and dislike of restraint, account for this irregularity. It is therefore from six to seven years and a half—eighteen months—that the infant work is done. During this eighteen months the child has to do the tables and reading already mentioned; write by dictation, spelling words of one syllable, and many of two; have a knowledge of oral composition, nature-study, drawing, brushwork, modelling, singing, recitation, and write in a copybook. Under these circumstances I venture to ask, is it feasible to expect every child to get through this syllabus by seven years and a half ? And if not, how does our country gain by pushing them through according to age? Hygiene: If our race is to develop along healthy lines our little ones must enjoy the heritage of pure air. Yet I fear many of them are for five hours daily taught in overcrowded, vitiated rooms. Ten or twelve square feet each of space is little enough, but an agent should be appointed who would see the children get that. If an epidemic came, what chance have the little ones whose constitutions have been - weakened by continually breathing impure air? The rooms should be swept and dusted every day, with disinfectants, and not before half an hour has elapsed from closing-time. The windows should be made to that a fresh current of air is flowing through the rooms all night. Irrespective of the positions of roads, every infant school should be built to the sun —have the best of ventilation and lighting; and be kept well warmed in cold weather without considering any cost. Healthy good children are the country's best asset. Salaries : The question of inferior salaries paid to responsible teachers has been well ventilated. It is undoubtedly the cause of men and women seeking more remunerative professions, resulting in the great dearth of teachers. Status : I should like to urge on your notice the official status of the heads of departments in our city schools. For instance, the infantmistress is the head of a department of two hundred to three hundred children; she has to supervise assistants and train pupil-teachers : Yet in the Education Act she is classed as a second assistant. Ido not know of any large commercial business where the heads of departments are called " assistants." And the classification of an infant-mistress as, such is an anomaly tending to loss of dignity, resulting in weakening of discipline. Playground supervision : Among their numerous duties the teachers have to supervise in turn the children during recess. I claim that teaching is " the most possible work done in the least possible time," and I consider the time has arrived when teachers should be able to eat their lunches comfortably in a " teachers' room," instead of, as now, having to eat in rooms where a few minutes before eighty or ninetychildren have been working. Every- trade and profession has an hour of freedom at midday. The teacher at least should have some comfort. Kindergarten : The principles of kindergarten teaching are taught throughout our infant schools; but we often have to allow little ones of three and four years of age to come to school, or else let the older ones stay at home to mind them. Therefore the time has arrived when a kindergarten-room should be attached to our infant schools, with an accredited teacher. David Lumsden examined on oath. (No. 117.) 1. To the Chairman.] I have had experience on School Committees for about seventeen years; secretary of the School Committees' Association for ten years, bringing me in touch with the Committees both personally and by correspondence. Our present system of education is a good one, but that is not to say that no .improvements ought to be made in the shape of amendments to make it better. First and foremost the pupils should be turned out fully equipped to take their place in the community as patriotic citizens. The syllabus should be adapted to find out what inclination the pupil's mind is bent on, and the pupil should be instructed accordingly. At present I look on the system as a large workshop instructing the pupils all in the same groove, and they leave school handicapped to fight the battle of life. The pupil who leaves the primary school to-day has not increased very much in intelligence since ten or twelve years ago. I am in favour of the compulsory continuation classes. Salaries : Instead of the present iniquitous scheme of paying teachers, could not a better scheme be introduced embodying the following— (1) Efficiency of teacher; (2) literary and other qualifications; (3) length of service; (4) size of school, or position of school —instead of the whole salary depending on average attendance? In other branches of the Civil Service annual increments are allowed. With teachers in Canterbury, where the increase in population is almost a thing of the past, they have nothing to look forward to but gradual decreases in Salary as they become more efficient. The teachingprofession must be made more attractive. One pupil-teacher I know has to wait seven weeks before he gets his salary. He pays 15s. board, and his salary is £55, less superannuation, purchase of text-bocks, expenses in connection with the School of Art, and singing lessons. He is expected to keep up a decent appearance on this salary. He began with a meagre outfit,
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his father being unable to help, as he is one of twenty-four children (last family nine). He is a high-spirited, brilliant scholar —undoubtedly the material for a teacher. He started to help himself to other people's money, and in four months his total deficiency was £7. Last night he spent in the cells at the Christchurch police-station. The salaries paid to teachers are too low. Average attendance: Salaries and number of staff depend entirely on average attendance. JSo- many things tend to lower the average that this method of payment should become obsolete, as the teachers have no control over the weather, epidemics, picnics, circuses, and so forth. According to the returns, 97 per cent, of the children are present at the Inspector's examinations. The average attendance for the Dominion is 86 per cent. Teachers are paid on the last-mentioned but their reports are on the first-mentioned percentage —a decided injustice. Syllabus : I am of opinion that the syllabus is overloaded. What with this and the overcrowding in the classes it is impossible for the teacher to do justice either to himself or the pupils. A newspaper lesson should be given once a week to the upper standards, though I know that some parents object to their children reading the newspapers. Appointment of teachers : The teachers are, I believe, in favour of the names allotted by the Inspectors being sent on to the Committees. But even now, when the Board sends on the names to the Committee for recommendation, the Committee selects one for appointment, but the Board appoints another out of the list. Boards and School Committees : In my opinion we do not require two bodies (as well as the Central Department) to run our educational system. I believe the Committees are doomed. Everything is tending in that direction. The appointment of teachers has almost gone from them now, and when that comes there will be nothing left.
Saturday, 29th June, 1912. Gilbert Dalglish examined on oath. (No. 118.) 1. To the. Chairman?} I am one of the representatives of the South Canterbury Educational Institute. 1 am headmaster of the Timaru Main School, and have been so employed for six years. Prior to that I was for ten years headmaster of the Pleasant Point School. My educational status is 81, and I am a Bachelor of Arts of the New Zealand University. I have prepared a statement which I will read. It is as follows : Consolidation of small country schools : I would urge the necessity of putting a check on the multiplication of small country schools; and, indeed, would go farther and urge the necessity of consolidating the existing small country schools wherever possible. I shall first point out some of the disadvantages of the small-school system : (1.) It is very costly. There are 1,300 of these small schools in the Dominion (out of a total of 2,096 schools —December, 1910). About twenty-three thousand children attend these schools, an average of eighteen per school. The building and equipping of a separate school for each eighteen pupils must result in very large expenditure of public money. (2.) In most cases only young and inexperienced teachers (almost always girls) can be got to teach in these schools. Hence the teaching is generally inefficient. (3.) The harm done to these young teachers, by thus isolating them, must be very great. I have heard this enforced loneliness described as " positivelyinhuman." (4.) These young teachers lose the chance of receiving help and advice which they would have if placed in a large school with a more experienced teacher. (5.) They have few opportunities of gaining their certificates. 1,045 teachers out of 3,708 in the Dominion have no certificates. Most of these are in single-handed schools. (6.) These small schools are often closed for months at a time. There is such frequent changes of teachers that the school-work, such as it is, is very seriously broken into. (7.) The small-school system results in a great waste of teaching power. If the twenty-three thousand children were gathered into, say, four hundred schools, about sixty in each (two teachers per school), over four hundred teachers would be available to staff other schools, according to the scale provided by the Act. (I believe over seven hundred teachers are required to do this.) (8.) The inspection, examination, &c, of such a number of small schools must entail a very great deal of unnecessary labour and expense on the part of the Board's Inspectors, Secretaries, Truant Officers, &c. (9.) The low salaries, which so frequently change (generally falling), cause a restlessness among the teachers, and tend to lessen their interest in their work. (10.) The small-school system is very costly as regards teachers' salaries and school incidental grants, as I. shall endeavour to show. I have taken the figures (year 1910) for our own district (South Canterbury), not because the small-school evil is greater here than in other parts of New Zealand, but because I have the necessary reports, and our district is a fair sample of the Dominion as a whole.
On the other hand, our six largest schools cost per pupil for teachers' salaries £3 Bs. 3d., and per pupil for incidentals a fraction over 3s. Put in another way, we hay fifty-four teachers
Number of Schools. | Grade. Cost per Pupil for Teachers' Salaries. Cost per Pupil for Incidentals. 17 22 15 0 and 1 (1 to 15 pupils) .. 2 (15 to 25 pupils) 3 (25 to 35 pupils) £ s. 7 4 6 18 5 10 d. 6 0 4 s. d. 9 0 9 8 8 6 rotate 54 0, 1, 2, and 3 6 7 9 9 3
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in fifty-four separate schools teaching 1,054 pupils (total for district, 4,875), a little over onefifth of the pupils, at a cost of £6 17s. per head; (6) our six largest schools have forty-one teachers and twenty pupil-teachers (say, fifty-one teachers altogether). They have 2,637 pupils, nearly three-fifths of the total for the district, and the work is done much more efficiently at an average cost per pupil of £3 Us. 3d. I admit that small country schools must cost more than town schools in proportion, and that they should be dealt with more liberally on that account; but I feel that their cost of upkeep is excessive, and, considering the quality of work done in many of them, the ratepayers are not getting a fair return for the money expended on them. As showing the extent to which the small schools have increased in our district, I may refer you to our Education Board's reports : In 1896 the number of pupils on the rolls of South Canterbury schools was 5,382 ; in 1910 it, was 5,525 —only 142 more (not 3 per cent. increase"). In 1896 there were sixty-five schools; in 1910 there were eighty-three schools—eighteen more (28 per cent, increase). In 1896 the average number of pupils per school was eighty-two; in 1910 the average number of pupils per school fell to sixty-six. I consider there has been an immense waste of public money. At least eighteen new schools have been built in the last fourteen years, an increase of 28 per cent., while the number of children has increased only from 5,382 to 5,525 — less than 3 per cent. If the taxpayers realized that they were paying for these schools they would surely object. The general impression seems to be that the taxpayers do not pay for them— " the Department finds the money." I consider the authorities have been too easily induced, often by the misrepresentation of interested persons, to build schools here, there, and everywhere, (a.) In some cases the children promised do not attend the new school, (b.) In other cases six or seven years will see the whole of the available pupils beyond school age, and the building will stand idle till another generation arises, (c.) In many cases it is not the convenience of the school-children that is the secret of the agitation for a new school, but the desire of adults to have a room suitable for socials and entertainments. (Question : Should public money, set aside for educational purposes, be spent in erecting social halls all over the country?) (d.) But perhaps the most objectionable new school is the one that merely empties neighbouring schools, and is only slightly more conveniently situated than they. Surely it is great waste of public money to build a new school which merely empties existing schools ! Now, as a remedy we would urge the advisability of consolidating the country schools. It has been done in Victoria and in the United States of America with good results. I quote from the Financial Statement, showing the saving from consolidation in Indiana, United States of America (Mr. Kern's book) : Number of schools abandoned, 38; additional teachers appointed at consolidated schools, 7; saving in number of teachers, 31; saving in salaries, 10,6516 dollars; saving in fuel and repairs, 2,260 dollars; number of pupils conveyed, 428; cost of transportation, 6,17686 dollars; net gain, 6,73474 dollars. From this it appears that in one country the transportation of 428 children made possible the closing of thirty-eight schools, a reduction of thirty-one teachers, and a net saving of 6,734 dollars. This is an example of what is being done in country districts in both the United States of America and Canada. In Victoria, too, the system has been adopted, and always with beneficial results. Over three hundred small schools in recent years have been closed in Victoria. As regards the conveyance of pupils :In New Zealand, where the weather-conditions are not so severe as in America, I think covered-in vans are not essential. At present an allowance is made to pupils conveyed by any vehicle, and I think even riding-horses and bicycles should receive some recognition as a means of conveyance. The former, to mv mind, are safer on hilly roads than a cart, and the latter are so cheap and useful on good roads (such as we have in Canterbury) that one could quite well be provided for each pupil who could use it to reach a school beyond walking-distance. You will note in the foregoing statement, " saving in number of teachers, 31." T wish to emphasize this point. Consolidation would result in a far more economical distribution of our teachers. The present shortage of teachers would be largely done away with. Our larger schools could then be better staffed, and unwieldlv classes of seventy to eighty would be unheard of. Summing up the advantages of consolidation : (a.) For the pupils —(1) Better classification ; (2) more skilful teaching; (3) greater variety of subjects; (4) greater regularity in attendance (owing to conveyance); (5) better buildings and appliances, school libraries, playgrounds, &c. ; (6) opportunities for organized games; (7) more emulation and esprit de corps among the pupils, (b.) For the teacher—(l) Better salaries; (2) fewer classes; (3) simpler and more efficient wor>; (i) sympathy and co-operation of fellow-teachers, congenial companionship, (a.) To the country—(l) Much more efficient work from the teachers; (2) saving in buildings, salaries, and maintenance; (3) saving in work of inspection, examination, and office administration ; (4) reduction of number of teachers required owing to more economical distribution of available teachers. This is a summary of advantages of the system following its adoption in Canada (taken from the Canadian Teacher of Ist February): (1). The health of the children is better, the children being less exposed to stormy weather and avoiding sitting in damp clothing. (2.) Attendance is from 50 to. 150 per cent, greater, more regular, and of longer continuance, and there is neither tardiness nor truancy. (3.) Fewer teachers are required, so better teachers may be secured and better wages paid ; teachers are brought together in a community where professional zeal is cultivated. (4.) Pupils work in graded schools, and both teachers and pupils are under systematic and closersupervision. (5.) Pupils are in better schoolhouses, where there is better heating, lighting, and ventilating, and more appliances of all kinds. (P>.) Better opportunity is afforded for special work in music, drawing, <fee. (7.) Cost in nearly all cases is reduced. (8.) Pupils are benefited by a widened circle of acquaintance and the culture resulting therefrom. (9.) The whole community is drawn together. HO.) Public conveyances used for children in the day-time may be used to transport their parents to public gatherings in the evenings, to lecture courses, &o. (11.) Transportation makes possible th° of mail throughout the whole township daily.
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(12.) Finally, by transportation the farm, again, as of old, becomes the ideal place in which to bring up children, enabling them to secure the advantages of centres of population and spend &eir evenings and holiday-time in the country in contact with nature and plenty of work instead of idly loafing about town. Consolidation is an old story in the United States. The Canadian Teacher for May, 1903, sets forth the advantages of the system, as ascertained by experience of .its working. ..Eighteen States have definite laws providing for the conveyance of school-children at the public expense, and in some others it is done without specific legal provision. Four or five States apply the system to high schools, and four States named have 2,000 central schools, requiring 11,000 wagon routes for the conveyance of the children. The article mentions that in Victoria, Australia, 241 small schools were closed and the conveyance system adopted, with a saving of about £14,000 a year. The Massachusetts Board of Education report on the cost of schools after consolidation : 60 per cent, report the cost less but results better; 8 per cent, report the cost less but results not stated; 15 per cent, report the cost same but results better; 8 per cent, report the cost more but results not stated. The National Education Association of America (" the largest and most important educational association in the world ") in 1902 renewed its indorsement of the system of free transport of pupils as the best plan to relieve isolated one-room schools, and added that the system ought to be applied to high schools. The centralized school has been in operation there (United States of America) since 1869, and is now introduced into twenty-four States and Territories. Everywhere it has been a success, and every year sees an extension of the system. 1 will read you a short extract describing the Van system at Little Plain School, New South Wales: "Little Plain lies twelve miles west of Inverell, and two con-veyance-vans ply to and from the school. One, that from Mount Russell, has been running for almost five years. The other van, from part of the famous Myall Creek Estate, has been running for a little over three years. These vans are Mr. Cameron's private property, and he is simply paid so-much per head for each child actually conveyed. The American school-vans resemble ungainly furniture-vans provided with seats, whereas the Little Plain vans, though not so commodious perhaps, are identical with the well-appointed vehicles used in conveying football teams in the metropolis. The Mount Russell van carries an average of thirty-five children daily from a point six miles from the school, thereby travelling a distance of twelve miles daily; and the Myall Creek van brings an average of twenty-nine children from a point also six miles from the school along the Warialda Road; but, on approaching within four miles of the school, it runs a distance of two miles along the Bingara Road before reaching the school; it thus travels a distance of twenty miles daily. Some of the children conveyed live close to the roadside, and others walk distances varying from one to three miles. The vans stop at certain points coming and returning to take up or set down the little passengers, but in no case does a van leave the main road. There has not been even a trivial accident sii'ce the system came into operation. The vans arrive punctually at 9.15 every morning, and leave at 3.45 every afternoon. The paid van-driver fills in a few hours every day in feeding, watering, shoeing, and clipping the horses, oiling the harness, washing the vans, and having all the horses (seven in all) harnessed by 3.30 p.m., while the proprietor supplements his income by conveying goods to and from the railway-station for the local storekeepers and farmers. I have recently read several complaints in the newspapers about children in dairying districts being late for school. This is a dairying district; and, if there is one fact more than another stands out prominently at the Little Plain School, it is that children are never late. Another advantage connected with the vans is the orderly conduct of the children on their way to and from school. One of the chief advantages pertaining to the system 1 had almost overlooked, though it is one which, from the new syllabus point of view, would, to some minds, outweigh most of the others : one of the older children conveyed in each van is required to accurately mark the daily attendance of each child. This record is carefully checked by the teacher from the ordinary roll, and 1 might state that so rigidly and accurately are these rolls kept by the children that in four years only one mistake has been detected." In conclusion, I would point out that malny districts in New Zealand, and particularly in Canterbury, are well suited for the consolidation of small country schools. Practically all our educational authorities admit it would be a good thing. Experience in Canada, the United States, Victoria, and New South Wales proves that on the whole it is cheaper and certainly more efficient than our present system. There is only one great obstacle to quote a local newspaper article on the position : " The obstacle that has to be surmounted is the conservatism and prejudice of country settlers, many of whom prefer a school in their immediate vicinity because the value of their property, if they wish to sell, is thereby raised. But there is such a thing as being a penny wise and a pound foolish, and if country parents are not naturally disposed to prefer efficient education for their children to the consideration we have mentioned, .the Department, which has to foot the bill for education at the general taxpayer's expense, should have the courage to refuse applications for small schools when their establishment would not be to the real advantage of a district. I would urge that conservatism and prejudice should not be allowed to block this reform. 2. To Mr. Wells.] In any case the very little children would not get to school in the country unless they lived very close to the school. Ido not know of anything in the way of pressure that could be brought to bear on Education Boards to make them feel to a greater extent than at present the extravagance involved in building small schools. I have not thought whether a change in the mode of election of members of Boards would mak» nnv difference in this respect. 3. To Mr. Kirk.] I do not see there is much to be gained by amalgamating Education Boards, further than that it would give teachers a wider field for promotion. If teachers could be promoted without rearranging boundaries or amalgamating Boards T do not know that I should be in favour of reducing the number of Boards. I'think in our own district we are very well looked after by our Board. The point we do not like is that they give us plenty of small schools. There
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is difficulty for a teacher in my district getting into another district. As to spelling reform, I think it would involve such a tremendous amount of rearrangement of the present printed works .-that it is hardly worth tackling. I do not think 1 have any complaint to make regarding the system of examination in our schools. The free classification by the head teachers, promotion by the teachers, and so on, have been a step in the right direction. 1 am convinced that the new syllabus and. regulations governing the classification of children have been of immense value. The only thing that seems to me to be not quite lair with regard to examinations is in respect to Standard VI Proficiency Examinations. The work set varies a good deal, and 1 think it would be better if w 7 e could have it quite uniform. It takes me about nine weeks in the year to examine my school, but it is a big one, averaging 700. 4. To the Chairman.} I think it would be a good thing if we had a Council of Education that would take a general view of education and have supervision of all the different branches. Agriculture is taught at my school. James Akchibald Valentine examined on oath. (No. 119.) 1. To the Chairman.] I am secretary of the South Canterbury Branch of the Educational Institute. 1 am headmaster of the Timaru fcouth fcchool, and have been there twelve and a half years. Prior to that I was for eight years at Balclutha, two years and a half at the North-east \ T alley as third assistant, and two years and a half headmaster of the Pareora School. My educational status is 81, and lam a Bachelor of Arts of the New Zealand University. I have prepared the following statement : I have the honour to appear as a representative of the South Canterbury Educational Institute. This district Institute strongly recommends—(l) That the system of consolidation of country schools be adopted wherever possible in New Zealand : (2) that a Council of Education be set up in Wellington, the business of this Council to be, generally, the administration of the affairs of the Education Department in so far as the syllabus of education, its scope, its interpretation, are concerned; to adjust from time to time the conditions of education, primary, secondary, and technical; and to keep watch over the progress of education without at the same time being burdened with the mechanical work of the Department : (3) that the Inspectors of the Dominion should be controlled by this Council of Education, and that there should be drawn up a Dominion scale of salaries for Inspectors, the minimum salaries for Inspectors should be at least equal to the maximum given to the head teachers in the primaryschools : (4) that the education system of the Dominion, primary, secondary, and technical, and inspectorial, should form one whole, so that any one entering the lowest grades of primary- work should be able, if qualified and suitable, to be promoted into any one of these divisions as opportunity offered : (5) that there be drawn up a Dominion scheme of promotion for teachers : (6) that the number of Education Boards be reduced : (7) that the scale of salaries now existing should be revised. It is evident that in certain positions the salaries are quite inadequate. In proof of that statement I have to submit some statistics compiled from the latest report of the Education Department. From page 31 of that report I learn that there are 136 adult teachers in South Canterbury. Of these, two teach in Grade 0 schools. The other 134 receive salaries as follows : £90 to £100, 34; £101 to £120, 18; £121 to £150, 31; £151 to £200, 30; £201 to £240, 14; £241 to £300, 2; £301 to £400, 2. One teacher in South Canterbury receives over £400 per annum, and he is head of a district high school with special reserves behind its funds, or he too would receive less than £400. Further analysis of the salary-sheet shows that fourteen of these teachers receive less than £100 per annum, or less than £2 a week; twenty-eight others less than £3 a week; and twenty-five others from £3 to £4 a week. That disposes of almost exactly half of the adult teachers in South Canterbury. Again, there are in South Canterbury fifty-five sole teachers —fifteen men and forty women. Of these, five men and ten women get less than £100 per annum, five men and twenty-two women get from £101 to £150, and five men and six women get from £151 to £200 per annum, and only five teachers get over £300 per annum. The average salary of assistant teachers in South Canterbury is £135, or about £2 12s. per week. The average salary of head teachers in South Canterbury is £163, or a little over £3 per week; but head teachers are supplied with dwellings or are paid house-allow 7 ance. If these figures are compared with those obtainable from the classification gazettes of the public service of the Dominion, it is clear that the average salary of our head teachers is less (1) than that paid to engine-drivers and carpenters in the Railway service; (2) less than that received by sergeants and detectives in the Police; (3) less than that received by telegraphists and Postmasters in the Postal Department; and (4) much less than the pay of lieutenants and captains employed in training our Territorials. Further, a teacher's salary may drop owing to reduced attendance at his school, and this affects his superannuation allowance also. I have also to bring up the conditions that prevail in most of the infant-rooms of schools from Grade 6 upwards. There are in New Zealand 250 of these schools, but they contain the great majority of the preparatory pupils of New Zealand, and in the majority of these schools the infant classes are taught by a certificated teacher—who ought to be called " infant-mistress," and who should, as a specially trained teacher, receive a special salary —aided by pupil-teachers. (In some cases the pupil-teachers are, as allowed by regulations, replaced by assistants, two pupil-teachers being reckoned equal to one assistant.) I wish to direct attention to the evils that result from the employment of pupil-teachers in this work. They teach for two years, and then usually they depart and a fresh supply of the new untrained youth comes forward; thus the mistress is constantly breaking in new pupils and new pupilteachers, and the strain is so great that many a mistress gives way under it, and, through so much occasion for breaking in, breaks down herself. And the pupils taught by these pupilteachers make slower progress than they should, so that their infant-room career is lengthened. We think that when conditions governing the staffing of a school are being drawn up special
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consideration should be given to the need for allowing a stronger staff to the infant-rooms than in any other classes. It is wrong in principle to make so much work depend on pupil-teachers. Another point I have to bring up is one concerning Proficiency Certificate Examinations. These are the most important certificates of the primary schools, for they are the ground of admission to free education in high schools and technical schools, and the gate to various employments. -From the Department's reports of the past two years it is easy to show that different Inspectors must require different standards of attainment in these examinations. For example, from table D 2 of the Education Department's return, 1910, these results may be worked out — Percentage gaining Percentage gaining District. Proficiency Competency Certificates. Certificates. Auckland ... ... ... ... ..75 15 Nelson ... ... ... ... ... 50 35 Westland ... ... ... ... ... 82 13 South Canterbury ... ... ... ... 62 23 Otago ... ... ... ... ... 80 14 Southland ... ... ... ... ... 56 12 The Dominion ... ... ... ... 69 20 Other years showed equal disparity in the various districts. Hence we suggest that in English and arithmetic at any rate the same test should be set all over New Zealand, and that some attempt should be made to secure greater uniformity in the requirements for drawing. Concerning the free-book system, I have to say that in South Canterbury there are several hundreds of the books supplied locked up in presses and never used by the pupils. Most parents prefer to buy the readers for the children, so that at home there may be a book for the child to use in a profitable way. We think that the system is of little benefit to the parents. If the money is to be used it should rather be spent in providing material that is used up daily, the exercise-books, and blocks, &c. Extra readers may also be purchased with these funds, and kept in the school for the use of the pupils. Personally, I should like to be allowed to spend from time to time some of this money in purchasing books for my school library. I find that a good proportion of my pupils read w-ith avidity, and I cannot always lay hands on the funds I want so that I may obtain suitable books. I am persuaded that a good school library can be used most advantageously in educating our pupils. We wish to point out also that nowadays the class of lad entering the profession is not what it once was. We do not now generally secure the smartest boys of a family, or the best lads from our schools. The reasons seem to be —(1) The drudgery of a pupil-teacher's life —trying employment by day and much study at night; (2) the long preparation required -before anything like good pay is received; (3) better remuneration is received in other less trying occupations. In South Canterbury our pupil-teachers are usually high-school pupils, who frequently have matriculated before appointment. That means that they are seventeen years old. Then they serve two years as pupil-teachers and attend a training college for two years, by which time they are twenty-one years of age, and they may receive an appointment worth from £90 to £135 per annum. A good lad can do better than that as a draper's assistant. I wish to say. a few words about the value of handwork in our schools. For some years I have carefully watched the pupils at handwork, and I am entirely satisfied that this is a most important part of our school courses. I can see that children trained to one or more branches become defter in manipulation, and are as a whole much handier than ever their untrained predecessors were. I see a great educative value in paper-folding, plasticine-modelling, brushwork, and woodwork. Pupils accustomed to these subjects have trained vision, better perceptive powers, and become able to express on paper thoughts and ideas that otherwise would lie dormant : that is, they can draw-, and drawing is the foundation of manual and technical instruction in after-life. I have also statements by other of our teachers, which they asked me to submit. The first is by Mr. W. Thomas, M.A., headmaster of the Waimataitai School, Timaru. It is as follows: The members of the South Canterbury Institute are of the opinion—(l.) That the present syllabus is an excellent one in many respects, and that it would be a calamity if any revolutionary changes were made at the present juncture. (2.) That the outcry against the syllabus in certain districts is due to two facts : (a) Some of the older teachers have found it difficult to enter into the spirit of the syllabus; (6) judging from the reports of fnspectors and the remarks of teachers, manyInspectors are not correctly interpreting the syllabus, but are making use of the latitude given to further their own particular fads. (We think that (a) is being remedied by the introduction of younger teachers, and also by the fact that most of the older teachers left in the fight are gradually seeing a little clearer, now that the methods and principles of the former syllabus are being forgotten. In order to ensure the correct interpretation of the syllabus, the Inspectors, so far as the syllabus is concerned, must be under the control of the Central Department.) (3.) That is those districts — e.g., South Canterbury—where a reasonable interpretation of the syllabus is taken, a much higher type of child is being evolved than was the case under the formersyllabus. (4.) That the children of our district are now receiving a much better training in the so-called essential subjects than they have received at any previous time in the history of South Canterbury education. (We lay stress on this point, as so much has been made of the incorrect statement that the present syllabus " neglects the fundamentals." It is the experience of all our teachers that the reading and the understanding of reading-matter, the oral and the written composition, have wonderfully improved, while writing has never been better, and arithmetic is much more intelligently taught and is much more practical.) (5.) That it is wise to give the head teacher a power of selection in forming his programme of work in such subjects as nature-study and geography, and that where the head teacher chooses judiciously an excellent
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course of work can be obtained from the topics suggested in the syllabus. While we consider that no radical changes should be made in the syllabus, we think that minor improvements may ...Jae effected, and we suggest the following : (1) A rearrangement of the arithmetic syllabus so that the work of Standard 111 may be increased and the work of Standard V lessened; (2) the increase of mechanical work in Standard I arithmetic syllabus; (3) the abolition of all sums dealing -with simplification of fractions; (4) in those schools where there are technical schools in the vicinity, the increase of domestic instruction for girls in Standards V and VI; and the lightening of their work in such subjects as arithmetic and mathematical geography; (5) the rearrangement of the sewing syllabus along the lines advised by modern educational authorities; (6) the issue of a Gazette for teachers, and in this Gazette the insertion from time to time of model syllabuses suitable for country schools. Scholarships : Our Institute is of the opinion that there should be no Junior Scholarships. (1.) The preparation for this scholarship involves extra work for the teacher and the pupil. No teacher can afford to devote so much time and energy to two or three pupils; while the strain placed on the pupils, especially the girls, of this age is not desirable. (2.) Now that every pupil has an opportunity of free secondary education there is no need for such scholarships. We consider that the money which is now being devoted to scholarships could be advantageously expended in—(1) The payment of part share of the books of all deserving pupils at the secondary schools; (2) the payment of boarding-allowance to such pupils, selected by the Inspectors, as are not within reasonable distance of secondary schools. The following is a statement by Mr. Daniel Ferguson, M.A., headmaster of the Winchester School, which he has asked me to submit: So far as the administration of Education Boards is concerned, the matter of greatest importance to the teachers of South Canterbury is the appointment of teachers. The Education Act provides for consultation with School Committees as an antecedent condition to the appointment of a teacher; but since 1908 the Boards have been provided with the power of transfer after consultation with Committees, and thus a Board may fill any appointment by this method : that is to say, the Board may submit the name of one teacher to a Committee, and state its intention of appointing that teacher on a certain date. This power of transfer is now in operation in Auckland, Taranaki, and Wanganui. Most of the other Boards, South Conterbury excepted, while not adopting this method in its entirety, yet exclusively favour appointments being made from applicants under their own jurisdiction. South Canterbury throws its vacancies open to the teachers of New Zealand as a whole. When it is drawing up a list for the guidance of Committees it certainly places its own teachers in favoured positions in that list; but in at least 50 per cent, of the appointments made the Committees pay no heed to the order of merit on the Board's list. Hence the teachers of this district are distinctly adverse to dual control in their appointments. They claim that the Board, with its wider and more intimate knowledge of a teacher's qualifications, is in a better position to make appointments with justice to the teachers, and having a sense of wdiat is due to a teacher from the point of view of promotion. While there is dual control of appointments teachers can never obtain a satisfactory scheme of promotion. Teachers recognize that Committees do good work in many- ways by fostering local interest in education, but they must forego this particular function. As before stated, Boards have the power of making appointments by transfer, but even if this power were generallyexercised by the South Canterbury Board —it has been exercised in the making of one or two minor appointments —teachers here would still be disadvantageous!} 7 placed compared with their professional brethren elsewhere. South Canterbury is a somewhat small district, and with the exception of five large schools all the others are small. There is no promotion for a teacher from, say, a Grade 4 school, owing to almost entire absence of schools of intermediate grades. Therefore a scheme of promotion to be satisfactory to teachers must be one not for Boards as they exist at present, but for Boards or controlling authorities over such areas as would include schools of all grades, so that teachers who have done satisfactory- work may expect promotion as the years go by. Fewer Boards, or, at any rate, authorities having the power of appointment, over larger areas are what the South Canterbury teachers advance as a means of obtaining for them justice in this matter. I had another statement, by Mr. Palmer, but 1 have mislaid it. 2. To Mr. Davidson.] I have not the slightest hesitation in saying that a pupil turned out of my school to-day is in almost every respect superior to his brother of ten years ago. The method of payment by capitation for manuaj-work in the primary schools involves a considerable amount of clerical work on the part of the teachers. We think it is a mischievous system. We should prefer to see a, lump sum given rather than have the capitation system. I highly approve of woodwork and cookery being taught in Standards V and VI. I entirely disapprove of children being conveyed for these subjects to centres so far away that they are obliged to be from home as long as thirteen hours. We approve of the establishment of a Dominion scheme of promotion of teachers. I should say, in order to give us a greater supply of teachers let us have more probationers in every class of school. The teaching service is not so popular as other branches of the Public Service, for several reasons : there is the drudgery that has to be gone through, and the young people see that the remuneration is not equal to that given outside. Then, again, the absence of prizes in the profession is a factor, but that operates more in the mind of the parents than with the young folks themselves; it also accounts for many teachers leaving the service. It would help to some extent if for Grade 10 the line were drawn at 500 average attendance instead of 600, and the number of so-called prizes thereby about doubled; but I do not know there are in New Zealand enough of such schools to produce that popularity of the profession which we desire. 3. To Mr. Wells.] I think increased remuneration is most necessary at both ends. I would not say it is needed all through. I think some of our assistants are paid fairly well. I think pupil-teachers and headmasters are not paid well enough. When I advocate a Council of Educa-
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tion I have in mind a body that would be advisory and directory as well—a body that would take actual responsibility. As to the value placed upon woodwork training by tradespeople, 1 knew that many of the builders in Xlinaru are glad to get the boys that have gone through this course. We think that money now spent in scholarships would be better spent on boardingallowance for country children. 1 would allow town children something to cover the cost of books. "As~to picture-shows, 1 can speak more favourably of those in Timaru than a great many teachers seem to be able to do. Some of the films 1 have seen tend to debase the children's minds and give them wrong notions of life. 1 think that in the large schools two term examinations would be quite sufficient, but in the smaller schools it seems almost necessary that the headmaster should be allowed to hold three examinations if he wishes. 1 think that uncertificated teachers might be allowed to take the D examination in three sections. 1 would make attendance at continuation schools compulsory tor all boys or girls who are taking up trades. I am not prepared to say that public opinion in my district would support attendance being made compulsory, but 1 know there is a strong undercurrent in favour of it. 1 do not think the admission of students to the training college who have had no experience in teaching is a success. 4. To Mr. Kirk.] As our pupil-teachers have to work it is drudgery for them. 1 am not saying that no one else has to go through drudgery, but 1 know that pupil-teachers have. This drudgery consists in the preparation of heavy studious work. They have frequently to stay up till midnight. Ido not say this is the case in every district; lam speaking of South Canterbury. This is the fault of the system, as far as we are concerned. 1 would not say it is an absolute necessity for students to sit up till 1 o'clock in the morning; as a pupil-teacher 1 used to sit up late regularly. I do not think there is a lot of nonsense talked about drudgery; it is drudgery for our young people to have to put in two or three hours at night-work. Students going in for the law or medicine or divinity study in the daytime; pupil-teachers have to work during the day. If students in the three learned professions, do not do their studying during the day it would alter my opinion to a considerable extent. The number of hours per day spent in the teaching profession take more out of a woman than at least two to three hours more spent in other services. I should be surprised to know that the death statistics are absolutely opposed to this statement. If teachers did not get the holidays they now have they would simply break down. A teacher, having to deal with the young mind, must keep fresh right to the end of his life. I cling to the term " drudgery "as applied to the work the pupil-teachers do. 5. To Mr. Wells.] In South Canterbury pupil-teachers who have matriculated before entering the profession have to work these very long hours. I think the pupil-teachers in South Canterbury are distinctly ahead of other pupil-teachers in their work. Our pupil-teachers matriculate and usually pass their C examination at the end of their two years. This may be an exceptionally severe local requirement. 6. To the Chairman.] Most of our pupil-teachers teach for five hours in the day, and are not inclined to begin to study during the remaining hours of daylight; naturally they leave it till evening. If one gets up early in the morning instead, he puts in the same hours of study in the long-run. It would surprise me to learn that students preparing for matriculation, in addition to their coaching, stay up till 10 or 11 at night. The head woman teacher should be recognized as the infant-mistress in a school. I dare say many of the evils complained of by Mr. Thomas would disappear if a Council of Education were instituted. I think-it would be a good thing to set up a Council of Education. 1 recognize Mr. Frank Tait, of Victoria, and the Hon. James Bryce as authorities on education. Witness subsequently forwarded statement by Mr. George T. Palmer, M.A., headmaster Pleasant Point District High School, and President South Canterbury Branch of New Zealand Education Institute, as follows : Agricultural courses, with special reference to the work done in district high schools : Agricultural pursuits form the basis of the industrial life of the Dominion. It would be absurd to give an education in our schools suited only to town life or to conditions different from those obtaining here. For example, the technical education given in such a country as Switzerland would not be imitated here without some discrimination. Our agricultural courses, even in our district high schools, should never be expected to turn our boys into practical farmers; the sole aim should be to create in the minds of the pupils a sympathy towards country life and an interest in agricultural occupations. An Auckland witness before this Commission is reported to have sai-el that the value of school gardens to the agricultural community was nil. Their primary object is the instruction of children, and not the provision of experimental farms for adults. At the same time experience in this district last year showed that, under the guidance of an expert instructor, even school gardens could reveal to the farmer things worth knowing. Again, it must be remembered that in the past a great number of the professions have been recruited from the ranks of the country children, and it would be most unwise to do anything in the future that would tend to shut out country children from the professions. The pupils of the district high schools of South Canterbury are almost without exception taking higher education with a view to entering the Civil Service or some profession. Hence the difficulty has been to prevent the agricultural course from ousting the more academic course. The Department at present asks for too much time for agricultural subjects. The problem has been to run the two courses together. The introduction of agriculture into the lists of subjects for Junior Civil Service and Matriculation Examinations has made the way a little clearer. Compulsory mathematics in the Matriculation Examination means the inclusion of the three branches of mathematics in whatever course we adopt in our secondary classes ; and so long as the hidebound conservatism of the University retains Latin as a compulsory subject (and English optional) for the B.A. degree, so long will it have to be taught, and will occupy time that might well be given up to something more profitable. District-high-school pupils with an agricultural course cannot do both Latin and French; they are pinned down to the gerund-grinding of the former,
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and miss the wider outlook given by a modern foreign language, as well as being bereft of the benefits of a more extensive knowledge of English literature. In the case of the primary schools of an agricultural district such as this, it would be advisable to insist that the science teaching consist of nature-study with an agricultural tendency. The value of school gardens, both from the aesthetic and the utilitarian point of view, is so obvious that comment on the subject is not ' necessary. Mukdoch McLeod examined on oath. (No. 120.) 1. To the Chairman?] I am one of the representatives of the South Canterbury Branch of the Educational Institute. I am in charge of the Temuka District High School, and have been there for thirteen years. Prior to that 1 was headmaster of the Timaru South School for two years; first assistant in the primary department of the Waimate District High School for two years; and secondary assistant in that school for two years and a half. Before this 1 had charge of a country school for over two years. My educational status is 81. I am a Bachelor of Arts of the New Zealand University. I have prepared the following statement : The South Canterbury Branch of the New Zealand Educational Institute have appointed me to bring before you their views of the primary-school syllabus, and on agricultural and rural courses, and to suggest some improvements in our educational system. The syllabus has been fully discussed, and the Institute desire to emphasize the fact that it is a very good one. They are certain that the freedom given to teachers in the promotion of their pupils, and in the making-up of schemes of work, has been productive of much good, and ought to be retained. As to the complaint that it is overcrowded, all depends on the interpretation of the syllabus by the Inspectors. Where there is a reasonable interpretation there is no overcrowding. The syllabus itself lays stress on essentials —reading, composition, and arithmetic; and it apparently intends that in other less important subjects teachers should be allowed considerable freedom both as to the amount and method of treatment. Reading and composition are certainly very much, better taught than formerly, and arithmetic probably quite as well, while other valuable subjects have been added, and greatly improved methods adopted in most subjects. To assist younger teachers in drawing up schemes of work a few specimen schemes should be issued by the Department. These would also serve to show more clearly that in many subjects teachers are intended to have a reasonably free hand, and to exercise their individuality in choice of topics and in mode of treatment. In the syllabus itself a few improvements should be made in order to give greater emphasis to certain very important subjects, and to cut out some unnecessary work. In arithmetic we are convinced that the greatest reform this Commission could effect would be to hasten the adoption by the Dominion of a decimal coinage and the metric system of weights and measures. Both to business men and to school-children the gain would be enormous. Much of the arithmetical work of Standard 11, and nearly the whole of that of Standards 111 and IV, consists of learning to apply the simple rules to money tables and to our cumbrous system of weights and measures. When it is remembered that every child in Standards 111 and IV spends from four to five hours a week at this work, some idea can be formed of the enormous amount of valuable time wasted every year —time which could well be set free for other useful work. In the meantime, in orderto educate the rising generation and hasten the reform, the metric system should not be cut out, but should continue to be taught as at present and its advantages emphasized. In some other respects the syllabus could be lightened. Primary-school arithmetic should deal only with practical problems likely to be met with in life, and useless work such as arithmetical puzzles, complex fractions, and all other matters of merely academic interest should be banished as waste of time. Nature-study should be compulsory in all schools, the programme, of course, being varied with the locality. In most parts of New Zealand it should certainly have an agricultural bias — i.e., the main portion of the course should deal with plant-life, and especially with the ordinary cultivated plants of farm and garden, with the common weeds, and with fruit-trees. In the higher classes it should include an elementary knowledge of soils ; plant-foods, and plantpests and their remedies. Every school should have a garden where the children could grow materials for nature-study, and vegetables for the cookery classes, and where simple experiments could be carried out. Physiology and hygiene :In these days when we hear so much about physical deterioration (and when eugenics societies are being formed for the improvement of the race) it should not be necessary>to dwell on the importance of physical culture and the care of the body. Systematic physical exercises should form part of the programme of every day. Physiology and hygiene should be compulsory in every school, even if something else has to be put out in order to make room for it. It is surely more important to the nation that its citizens should know how to keep themselves vigorous and healthy-than that they should know, for instance, the cause of the change of seasons. Only an elementary knowledge of the most important topics should be demanded — e.g., digestion, care of the teeth, respiration, need for fresh air, circulation of the blood, the skin, cleanliness, exercise, rest, care of the eves, first aid in case of accident. In the teaching of English there are two aims : (1) To train children readily and clearly to communicate their thoughts to others, either orally or in writing (composition); and (2) to enable them to understand the thoughts of others—to get tic thoughts out of the written or printed page. Composition, therefore, is an end, while grammar and word-study are of use only so far as they help towards correct composition; and the syllabus very rightly lays stress on composition, and gives grammar a comparatively unimportant place. Tt would be a great mistake to reinstate grammar.. The time has gone by when a subject should be inserted in the syllabus merely for the mind-training it gives apart from its usefulness in after-life. The aim is composition, and facility in composition is not gained by grammatical exercises, but by practice in speaking and writing about topics with which children are familiar. If a teacher is able to produce good composition without much grammar he should be allowed to do so. In most schools spelling
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occupies far more time than its importance as an educative medium warrants. Spelling is never required except when we want to write, and it is absurd to learn the spelling of words we may sever have to write. Formal lessons in spelling could well cease after Standard IV, and children should be taught to look up in a dictionary every word they wished to write but did not know how to spell. In learning French or Latin pupils do not learn lists of spellings, and yet they le"arn how to spell merely through practice in reading and writing. The spelling of English would come naturally just in the same way, and spelling above Standard IV should be judged not by setting lists of words, but from written exercises in composition, geography, history, &c. Differentiation : Personally, I should like to see in our syllabus some better provision for the education of girls. I am strongly in favour of education being made to fit people for life, and lam certain that in the past it has not been doing this in the case of girls. Woman's true sphere is the home, and her noblest vocation that of motherhood. No woman takes up clerking or teaching, or any other such occupation or profession, with the expectation or hope that it is to be her life work, but looks forwards to the time when she will have a home of her own ; and as far as any education system fails to recognize this and to make provision for an education that will fit women for their highest duties, in so far does it fail in its true function of training efficient citizens. "Why should we spoil a good mother to make an ordinary grammarian?" asks an American author. In the past our system has been too much concerned with the making of grammarians and too little with the making of citizens Much has lately been said and written about the waste of human life through the high death-rate of children under one year of age, about physical deterioration, and about other less important subjects, such as the high cost of living. There is not the slightest doubt in my mind that the first is chiefly, and the secondly largely, due to the appalling ignorance of mothers with regard to the feeding and care of infants. Considering the trouble a farmer goes to in the rearing of fat lambs, it is surely worth our while to try to give the babies a better chance. And if the high cost of living is so serious a matter as to require investigation by a Royal Commission, surely it is worth our while to consider whether we can help to solve the problem by giving our girls a training in what will in most cases be tKeir life-work. An elementary knowledge of food-values and household economics, such as can be imparted in a school class, would enable a family or five —father, mother, and three children—to be fed on equally palatable and nutritive food as at present, every member receiving the full necessary amounts of proteids, carbohydrates, &c, at a cost of 15s. per week. Is not such a training of more value to the wife of a worker than much of what a girl now learns in Standard VI? It may be said that such a training can be best given in secondary and technical classes; but there are many in country districts who are out of reach of these classes, and many others who will not attend unless compelled. The girls of Standard VI should therefore be allowed to omit those parts of arithmetic, geography, and drawing that they will never use in after-life, taking instead, and in addition to cookery, lessons in laundry-work, householdmanagement, home nursing, and care of children. I believe that we shall never reach an ideal state of affairs until this is done, and until every school in the Dominion has its own home-science laboratory or school kitchen where these subjects are taught. No girl would then be allowed to leave school without at least some knowledge of the elementary principles pertaining to the management of a home. The cheapest method of attaining this desired end would be to consolidate country schools; but wherever such work could be undertaken at present — i.e., in large schools, and even in many two-teacher schools, some differentiation between the work of boys and girls should be permitted and encouraged. Agricultural instruction and rural courses : I am in full sympathy with the Department in its efforts to introduce the organized, teaching of agriculture into our schools. In a country like New Zealand, where probably more people are engaged in agricultural and rural pursuits than in all other productive occupations put together, it would be absurd to give an education suited only to town life. Nature-study, leading up to the elementary principles of agriculture in Standards V and VI, should be compulsory in every primary school. A rural course should be introduced into every district high school; high schools should provide a rural course alongside their ordinary courses, a Chair of Agriculture should be established in each University college, and agriculture should be ore of the options not only for the B.A. degree but for Honours and for Research Scholarships. But while a rural course is the right one for our district high schools, we who have to work it are met by some difficulties. It must be remembered that in the past the professions have been largely recruited from the ranks of the country children. It would therefore be unfair to do anything which would unduly restrict the choice of the country children and handicap them in a subsequent university career. We must therefore continue to prepare candidates for Matriculation as we have done in the past, and as the University demands a four years' course the Matriculation subjects must be started in the first year. As long as the University, in mv oninion, most unwisely, retains Latin as a compulsory subject for 8.A., so long will we be practically compelled to teach it to all who are likely to enter upon a University course. Geometry and algebra are also compulsory for Matriculation, and, by the latest regulations, for Class D ; but as the Department requires at least twenty hours a week to be spent on the rural course, only four are left for Latin, geometry, and algebra. As that time is not sufficient the teachers interested suggest that geometry and algebra be optional in the rural course. With regard to salaries and promotion, the Institute is strongly of opinion that something ought to be done to make the teaching profession more attractive to male teachers. There is no getting away from the fact that whereas once the picked boy became a pupil-teacher, we have now to take whatever we can get. That should not be. The training of the future citizens is surely the noblest and most important work in the Dominion, and the very best talent in the land should be engaged upon it. But you cannot attract the best talent unless you pay it something like what it would receive in other walks of life. Salaries are too low, and there are not enough prizes. The salaries of the secondary assistants call for special notice. In my
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own school, the colonial scale allots a lower salary to the first assistant in. the secondary department than to the first primary assistant, though the former has to do more advanced work and should . possess higher qualifications. Compare the probable careers of two boys, aged, say, fourteen, one of whom becomes a bricklayer and the other a teacher. To have any reasonable chance of rising in his profession, and, indeed, in South Canterbury, to enter it, as pupil-teacher, the young - teacher must first matriculate, which means a four years' course at a high school. He will, therefore, be about seventeen or eighteen years of age when he begins as a pupil-teacher. After two years he enters the training college, and leaves it at the age of twenty-one or twenty-two with a C certificate. He is then ready for an assistantship at from about £100 to £150 (£2 to £3 a week), but he is not usually likely to get a first assistantship in a district high school at £180. The young bricklayer on the other hand starts his apprenticeship at, say, fourteen, and in four years — i.e., when he is eighteen—his wages are at least 10s. a day (about £140 per annum). Most likely he will get 135., 145., or 15s. a day— i.e., from £200 to £250 a year; and before the teacher's salary has risen to £250 the young bricklayer is probably a master builder, taking contracts on his own account. It is the same with most other occupations. If the same energy were put into anything else as is required to make teaching a success, the money return would be infinitely greater. Then, again, promotion is so uncertain. With the present dual method of appointment there is no certainty that industry and skill will be rewarded, or that the candidate best fitted for a position will get it. Many Boards are practically- close corporations, and so the chances of rising are much restricted, especially under the smaller Boards. Appointments should be open to all teachers without respect to district, and the best applicant should be appointed no matter what district he comes from. Inspectors should be chosen only from among teachers of considerable experience and proved success. There should be a colonial scale of salaries for Inspectors, the minimum being higher than the salaries of the best-paid teachers. Primary, secondary, and technical schools should be under the same controlling authority, and promotions should take place as a matter of course from any one of these to any other, or to inspectorate. This matter of raising salaries and increasing the chances of promotion is not urged merely as matter of justice to the teachers. We must look at it from an economic standpoint. We want to attract into this most important of all professions the best brains the country can produce, and we cannot do this unless we pay them well. It will pay the counrty to pay its teachers well. That is the only true reason for raising the salaries. Closely connected with the question of salaries is the problem of the country schools. We are faced by the fact that just about one-third of the adult teachers in the Dominion are uncertificated, and, of course, most of them are in country schools. Most of them, too, are probably untrained, and though many are doing efficient work, yet there is not usually the same confidence in the uncertificated teacher that there is in the certificated one. We thus hear a cry all over the country for an improvement in the country school's condition. The remedies proposed by the Institute are —(1.) Increase the salaries of country teachers sufficiently to compensate good teachers for the inconvenience of living in the backblocks. To lessen the expense consolidate wherever possible, and so secure the advantages enjoyed by large schools. (2.) Do not send out into the country raw students fresh from the training college. They should be sent for two years as junior assistants to a large school, where they will receive further training, gain more experience, and form some idea of what standard of work to expect in a good school. We should then hear less of the cry that the work of examination and promotion should again be put upon the Inspectors, and we should find it unnecessary to resort to the seemingly more expensive method of appointing organizing Inspectors. The training of teachers is another question which should receive the attention of this Commission. In the training-college course much more attention should be given to a practical training in handwork and individual laboratory practice in science than to literary subjects. Literary subjects can be worked up after the student leaves college, but very many never again have the same chance of a training in practical work. Nature-study, agriculture, physiology, and hygiene should be taken by all; chemistry and woodwork by men; and cookery, household economics, elementary home science, and home nursing, Sec, by women. If students were then drafted into large schools for another year or two years, they would have a chance of continuing university work and completing their degree. In order to provide a supply of efficient instructors for secondary or technical classes in agriculture, cookery, home science, and other subjects, students with a special liking for a particular branch should be encouraged to specialize. For this purpose scholarships shuold be awarded to a few of the best students, or to teachers, in the country to enable them to continue their studies for one or two years at university or other suitable classes. In agriculture particularly this would soon ensure for high schools and district high schools a supply of assistants competent to teach the full rural course without the aid of itinerant instructors. This system of scholarships if applied to technical schools would at the same time provide efficient instructors for technical schools —a matter of great importance now that the apprenticeship system is falling into decay. But after the training-college course is done, the Department should take an interest in the training of its teachers, and try to keep them from fossilizing if sent to the backblocks. A monthly Educational Gazette should be issued free to all teachers, as in New South Wales and Victoria. This Gazette could be used for the publication of specimen schemes of work, for accounts of modern developments, for assisting country teachers in passing examinations, and generally to keep teachers up to date in methods of teaching. Teachers' examinations: The Institute have considered the new regulations for teachers' examinations, and w-ish to emphasize the following points: (1.) The regulations are in many respects an improvement on the old, especially in requiring practical work in science, and in making history compulsory. (2.) The inclusion of another subject in Class D, and the increased difficulty of others, will make it much more difficult to obtain a D certificate. In fact, with practical Work in science compulsory, it will now be impossible for many of them to qualify for
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Class Dor to improve their status by passing Class C. Something should be done to help them. (3.) In order to lessen the strain of examinations, the Department's intermediate certificate should be accepted pro tanto for Class D, and leaving certificates for Class C, without further examination. (4.) A two years' approved course of individual practical work in science should be accepted for Class D, and a three years' course for Class C. Technical education : A great deal has been said about the cost of technical education. It must be remembered, however, that a great deal of the money has gone for buildings, including rooms for woodwork, cookery, and science classes at district high schools; and unless this Dominion is content to take a back seat among the nations we must continue to spend money on buildings and equipment until every important centre is provided for. Our educational system will, never be complete until attendance at technical or secondary classes is compulsory- between the ages of fourteen and seventeen or eighteen. This is the most important formative period in the life of our youth, and it is a very foolish proceeding for the State not to take the greatest possible advantage of it, by building on the foundation laid in the primary school, and in giving such a vocational training as will help make the citizens of this Dominion at least equal in intelligence and skill to those of any part of the world. 2. To Mr. Davidson.] I think greater uniformity would be secured if the Inspectors were placed under the Central Department. I think there would be a more uniform interpretation of the syllabus. 3. To Mr. Wells.] I think the Matriculation Examination should be altered so as to suit students taking the agricultural and rural courses at the district high schools. To my mind the University is behind the times. The cost seems rather too great to start a district high school for as few as twelve children. I think about £220 should be the minimum salary for an assistant doing secondary work in a district high school. I would suggest about twenty as the minimum number of pupils. 4. To Mr. Kirk.] I think the amount of grammar set out in the syllabus is just sufficient for all requirements of the primary schools. 5. To the Chairman.] My opinion is that the boy produced at the present day by the primary schools is quite equal in intelligence to the boy produced at any other time. He may not know quite so many facts, but I consider him a much more intelligent product. I should say that the product of to-day is more adaptable to the needs of business than the product of fifteen years ago. If practical men who have to deal with these boys say differently, I think a good deal of it arises from the feeling which people have that we are not so good as our fathers. I certainly think that a rural course is the best thing for a district high school. I believe that the amount of work in this course that should be taught in a district high school can be efficiently taught there. I do not know that an agricultural course should be compulsory upon everybody in a district high school. I contend that a district high school should prepare its pupils for Matriculation if Matriculation covers an agricultural course. I certainly think more attention should be paid to agricultural education in New Zealand than is paid now. 6. To Mr. Pirani.} I do not know anything about the death-rate amongst teachers as compared with people in other occupations. The question of allowing students to go in for a Matriculation course is a difficult one, because frequently the child's parents do not know at the beginning of the course whether the boy or girl will stay at school for two or three years. They say they will make up their mind later on as to what they will put the child to. Mabgaret Olliver, examined on oath. (No. 121.) 1. To the Chairman.} I am a secondary assistant at the Hokitika District High School. I have been there for five years and a half. Prior to that I was for five years in a private commercial school. My educational qualification is A3. I am M.A. and M.Sc. of the New Zealand University. On behalf of the Westland teachers, I wish to submit the following statement: Primary education : Staffing : There are thirty-six schools in. the Westland District, twenty-nine of which are under sole teachers; four under a head teacher with one assistant; two under a head teacher with one assistant and one pupil-teacher; one, the Hokitika District High School, Grade Ba, has a staff of three assistants, two secondary assistants, and four pupil-teachers in addition to the headmaster. One matter that requires the attention of educational authorities is the staffing of schools such as those,,of Grade Ba, especially- the staffing of the infant departments. The present scale of staffs does not allow of an adequate number of competent, experienced teachers for the preparatory classes. These classes are placed under the control of a mistress, who is seriously handicapped in two ways—(l.) By the inexperienced teachers who are allotted to assist her. In many cases all the assistance that can be given to the infant-room is that of a pupil-teacher commencing the work of teaching. This pupil-teacher has to be trained by the mistress. Since the length of service of many pupil-teachers is now often only two years, many infant-mistresses have to begin each year's work with a new 7 pupil-teacher, who gains her experience at the expense of the infants. After a year in the infant-room, the demands of the school require the pupil-teacher's services in another standard, and a new pupil-teacher goes to the infant-room. (2.) By the insufficiency of the staff far too many children are in the hands of one mistress. The roll number in the infant-room ranges from 90 in January to 120-130 in the last quarter of the year. These are probably under an infant-mistress and one pupil-teacher. If the pupil-teacher is in charge of the upper class of about thirty, there still remain from sixty to ninety under the one teacher, and these are classified into four or five divisions under the one teacher, who is also responsible for the class under the pupil-teacher. In addition the infantmistress may be required to train probationers. In the opinion of the mistress of this district, infant departments should (1) receive more liberal staffing; (2) be staffed with experienced teachers. The pupil-teachers could still be trained in infant-room work, but not at the expense
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of the preparatory pupils. The length of time spent in the preparatory classes —in this district 39 per cent, of the roll number are in the preparatory classes —we consider, due not to defects .-in the syllabus or any excessive demands in handwork, &c, but to the insufficiency of the staff. In no case should a pupil-teacher have sole charge of a standard; preparation for examination and the responsibility of a class put far too great a strain on a young teacher. Syllabus : History: Too little time is given to the study of history and civics; a proper knowledge of British and Empire history is necessary for all citizens. Geography : Political and commercial geography should be included in the compulsory subjects of the syllabus; these are of more practical value than mathematical and physical geography, which may be regarded as scientific subjects. A greater knowledge of New 'Zealand geography should be demanded. Arithmetic : We would suggest a revision of the requirements for Standards II and V. As arithmetic pupils from Standard V can succeed in gaining proficiency certificates without working through Standard VI for a year, Standard V pupils must be required to learn too much. English : Owing to a more liberal hiterpretation of the syllabus, pupils from many schools in this district have a sufficient knowledge of the parts of speech and the conjugation of regular verbs to learn Latin with ease when they go into the secondary classes. Others suffer from a want of knowledge of formal grammar, and therefore find the first year at sceondary work harder than is necessary. Sewing : The syllabus might be rearranged. Some of the time spent in Standards 11, 111, and IV in work which is in practice done by machine might be spent more profitably in plain darning, patching, &c, and other work now done in Standards V and VI, work which cannot be done by machine. In the upper classes more time would then be given for learning to cut out garments, and for getting them ready for the machine. If possible, all schools should be supplied with sewing-machines. Secondary education : The Hokitika District High School is the only school with secondary classes and secondary assistants; the present roll number is fifty-eight—thirty-three boys and twenty-five girls. It is quite impossible in this district to make the course a vocational one. Westland is in a transitional stage —pastoral pursuits are replacing mining. Children travel to the District High School from all centres —sawmilling, gold-mining, and dairying— but they do not intend to engage in these industries. The boys wish chiefly to pass the Junior Civil Service Examination, and so qualify for a position in the Civil Service; a very few enter banks or offices; one, during the last five years, has become a pupil-teacher; the girls become teachers, many taking sole charge of a school without any preliminary training in teaching. If there were an admission examination for the different branches of the Civil Service, subjects suitable for the different branches could be taught. There should be some definite statement made each year as to the number of girls who will receive appointments in the Civil Service : the present system of appointments is most unfair to girls who undergo the strain of a competitive examination without any chance of reward. Under the present staffing of secondary classes it is impossible to give a definite domestic science course to the girls, even if this entrenching on the work of technical schools were desirable. Girls should all learn economic science and physiology; at present the girls in the Hokitika secondary classes are taking a course of practical physiology and first aid. Owing to the few commercial positions in the district it would not be profitable to institute a commercial course. Necessarily, therefore, the work being done is professional; pupils are prepared for the Matriculation and Civil Service Examinations, chiefly the latter, and a very high percentage of those who enter the classes pass one or both. Scholarships : In small and remote districts such as Westland there should be some travelling scholarship to enable more gifted pupils to go to a large centre for advanced instruction in manual and technical schools. We also think that scholarships to enable young country teachers to attend a training college might help to increase the number of certificated teachers, as well as to enable young people to enter the teaching professions in districts where there are few appointments of pupil-teachers. More boarding-allowances should be given to country children, if they require to live away from home, while attending secondary classes. Technical and manual instruction : No classes except school or teachers' classes are held in the district, but if they were the local bodies should not be required to pay any part of the cost. Position of teachers in Westland : Certificated teachers have little chance of promotion, owing (1) to the provincialism of Boards; (2) to the few positions in the district worthy of acceptance. If the teachers do succeed in gaining a position in another district, it is usually a lower one that they are compelled to accept. Many of those who have remained in the--district have to watch their schools going dow m , grade by grade, so that, as a rule, the longer a teacher has been in the service the smaller his salary. As there are nine schools Grade 0, and ten schools Grade 1, out of thirty-six schools, the number of uncertificated teachers is very high; certificated teachers will not remain in this district in charge of schools of these grades while positions are vacant in promotion districts. Five other sole-charge teachers are uncertificated; many of these teachers are anxious and willing to work for certificates, but they are seriously handicapped. The Westland Board has established correspondence classes to help the South Westland teachers, but the mails are at long intervals; Okuru, for instance, has a fortnightly mail. As the railway goes south only as far as Ross, teachers south of Mikonui cannot attend the Saturday classes which the Board arranges; many of the other teachers have a great distance to travel, and in spite of climatic conditions there is a high percentage of attendances. The new regulations for D and C certificates will make it impossible for Westland teachers to sit for the examination, even if they find it possible to cope with all the subjects required for the first section. If the subjects for the D certificate examination were equally divided into three sections, and some concession in the matter of practical certificates were made in the case of those who could not possibly attend a centre for instruction, our teachers would be better able to improve their status. After this year, teachers already possessing the D certificate will not be able to obtain a higher qualification, as they cannot obtain the necessary training in science : therefore ambitious teachers will leave the district. It would be advan-
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tageous if, in this district, the Board had power to conduct classes for teachers in all professional subjects,, especially in singing, as in manual and technical subjects. Of course, w-e realize that the ideal training for teachers is given in training colleges. As in Westland there are only six pupil-teachers and two probationers; very few go to the training college under Division A, and these few- do not return to the Coast. Others from here could not accept studentships under Divisions B and C, unless they had private assistance. Amalgamation of small schools : The multiplication of small schools is in this district a serious hindrance to the efficiency of the instruction. In two instances the Board has divided up a school district, and so either lowered the grade of the existing school or prevented its being raised to a higher grade. Kokatahi School district was recently divided into two; Lower Kokatahi (at the end of last year, Grade 2) has lost the pupils from the Upper Kokatahi, Grade 1; the combined roll numbers of the two schools was thirty-eight in December. The original school was under a sole certificated teacher. There are no difficulties in the way of transport —the rivers are bridged, and the roads good. South Beach School district has had the Mananui district taken from it. South Beach, under a sole certificated teacher, falls this year from Grade 3 to Grade 2, and the teacher's salary remains stationary- instead of rising. Many small schools might be amalgamated with advantage. Within a five-mile radius of Hokitika there are five or six schools either on the railway-line or connected with Hokitika by good roads. Before a Board is given authority to open a new school it should be required to show either (1) that it is impossible to transport the children to an existing school, or (2) that it is cheaper to open the school, and that the children will receive as efficient instruction in the new school as in the existing ones. If there were not this multiplication of small schools in the district —and this may be necessary south of the Wanganui—the remaining schools could be more efficiently staffed. Scarcity- of teachers : Our district is, as I have stated, poorly supplied with certificated teachers. The proposal to import teachers is an artificial method of dealing with the difficulty. Teachers from the older countries would probably be attracted to other occupations. The service should be made sufficiently attractive to induce men to join it. If salaries were to rise by annual increments according to the time of service, as in the otherbranches of the Civil Service, and if the Department wore to classify- all teachers according to efficiency- and promote from that classification, more would enter the service. The uncertainty of promotion and the fluctuation of salaries deter many who would otherwise be attracted by the nature of the work. Salaries of secondary assistants : The salaries of the secondary assistants are too low, for the work is very arduous, and requires special qualifications. Amalgamation of Boards : If the smaller Boards are to be amalgamated, the teachers of this district are strongly in favour of the smaller Boards being merged in the larger ones, and of there being four Boards corresponding to the University centres. Westland would then be joined to Canterbury. If in 1910 the North Canterbury- District had been increased by the addition of the Grey, Nelson, Marlborough, and Westland Districts, there would have been 484 schools under the control of the Board, or sixty-one less than the number then controlled by the Auckland Board. The administration of this suggested district may present difficulties, but not necessarily- insuperable ones. For the administration of the Defence Act, Grey and Westland are already included in the Canterbury District; so probably the amalgamation for the administration of the Education Act may not be found impossible. 2. To Mr. Kirk.] Our Institute has not considered the matter of spelling reform. 3. To Mr. Pirani.] I have once or twice made application for appointment under Boards outside my own district, but not lately, so that my complaint about other Boards not taking Westland teachers is not a personal one; I am speaking for others whose cases I am familiar with. My salary is £155. It is supplemented by the High School Board, and in addition lam instructor of a technical class under the Westland Board, and I also conduct some of the correspondence classes. .Jonathan Charles Adams examined on oath. (No. 122.) 1. To the Chairman.] I am Chairman of the Board of Governors of Canterbury College and its affiliated institutions, and have occupied that position for three years. I have been a member of the Board for about nine or ten years. 2. To Mr. Pirani.] I do not thinls the salaries paid by my Board to the teachers at the Girls' High School are sufficient for the services rendered, but they are as much as we are able to pay, and you will possibly have noted that the year before last the salaries wore raised all round. I produce the annual report of the Canterbury College Board of Governors for 1912 [document produced]. On the Girls' High School Account we started with an overdraft of £1,365, and finished up with an overdraft of £695. We have therefore wiped off £670 from the Working-expenses Account. 3. Considering that you get from school fees and capitation, which is practically for the teachers' work, £2,873, do you think it a fair thing that only £2,513 should be paid in salaries? —Capitation for free places is not merely for the salary of the teacher. You have therefore got £2,764 against £2,513, a difference of some £200. If school fees are included you have a difference of £360. No music instruction is paid for. I take £2,764 as the basis of my calculation, leaving out the £109 received by way of school fees. Adding the capitation for technical classes, £92, you have a sum of £2,856, and the salaries are £2,513, leaving £343. In order that the children coming from the country may have a place where they can study, we subsidize a boardinghouse to the extent of £50 a year : that leaves £293. Then we give a grant of £86 for scholarships, leaving £207. In addition there are the ordinary expenses in connection with the school — office-expenses and general — amounting to £112, and prizes and printing and stationery take a further £75 : that leaves a balance of £20 out of the capitation. I contend, therefore, that we do as_.much as wo possibly can with the capitation we receive.
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4. I notice from, the statement on page 17 of the report that the reserves for the Girls' High School are valued at £5,988? —And they bring in £490 altogether. 5. Do you think it would be a fair thing, instead of taking so much out of the free-place money for building or repayment of overdraft on building, that you should utilize some of this capital-fund by borrowing against it and paying back out of the interest? —It has been borrowed against, in this way : First of all, when the new part of the school was put up, £3,000 was given by the Government. The contract price was £2,999. We then approached the Minister of Education with regard to the fittings, and he said we must provide our own fittings; he suggested that we should borrow. Practically we borrowed, and that money had to be paid back. There was not accommodation even with that new building and we had to purchase, and we practically borrowed against that. The result was that to all intents and purposes our income from reserves, and so on, was nil. The only way of removing the inadequacy of the salaries at the Girls' High School is by our having either a grant or better endowments. Ever since I have been Chairman 1 have at public functions at Canterbury College urged that the folk in Canterbury who have been blessed with the good things of this world should step forward and help the Girls' High School, it being the worst-endowed institution of the whole lot. I think the Girls' High School is sufficiently staffed. We keep as closely as we possibly can to some twenty-five to thirty for a secondary-school class. We charge a high fee for tuition at the Girls' High School, because at the time it was instituted it was absolutely necessary to charge a fee that would enable us to pay even the miserable salaries we were paying at that time. We charge a low fee at the Boys' High School because the endowments there are sufficiently large to enable us to do so. The fees were fixed a long time ago; there has been no change made during the time I have been on the Board of Governors. We asked the Government to help us in providing a gymnasium, on the principle that those who helped themselves should be helped. The Old Boys paid a third of the cost, the Board paid a third, and the Government paid a third—or, rather, they gave a pound-for-pound subsidy on the £600 that was subscribed. We gave £500, I think. If the Government could see their way to make a greater payment for the Girls' High School we should be only too glad to receive it. It would be a better policy, no doubt, if the Government could see their way to help those schools that are poorly endowed rather than those having good endowments. I hope I have made that question of capitation perfectly clear, because in the report that appeared in yesterday's paper there is rather a suggestion on the part of the members of the Commission that the management of the Girls' High School has been such that we have been robbing the teachers of money that was due to them. I think 1 have shown clearly that we have a balance of some £20 when we set the proper charges against the capitation, and that the reduction of the overdraft has been due to our careful working, and that we have been using the fees received and the rent from endowments as well. 6. To the Chairman.} I recognize that the girls should have an equally good secondary education as the boys. As to free-place pupils, under the Act we have to make certain provision. Prior to the Act coming into operation we provided for a larger number of free-place pupils than the Act actually demands from us. Henry Christopher Lane further examined. (No. 123. ) 1. The Chairman.] We desire to ask you a few questions touching those returns which you exhibited and explained to us. First, as to teachers' salaries :At present the Boards have to supply details as regards the staff of each school, Would it not be sufficient if the total amount required to pay salaries in each grade were given, to afford a basis on which the Department would pay ? Could not all the information, apart from what is required for statistical purposes once a year, be supplied within these three tables that I have here [tables shown to witness]? — Yes, I think so. It would be a very great relief to the office if that were done. The only question would be as to the adjustments arising out of changes afterwards. 2. Would there be any practical difficulty in arranging an adjustment, seeing that the Department does take the information in that way?—l think if the Department would rely on the Boards and ask the Boards to be extremely careful it would be very satisfactory. 3. Given that the Department placed greater reliance on the Boards and their officers in these respects, could not simplification be effected in that direction? —From our point of view, decidedly. ** 4. Mr. Kirk.] Would there not be difficulty in the matter of audit? —That would remain very much the same as now, I think. The table mentioned by the Chairman would be specific —that is to say, there would be so-many schools of certain grades, so-many teachers, the salaries would be so-much, and the totals so-much. If it were certified on the sheets to that effect I fancy the Department should be able to pass that to the audit. I am not conversant, of course, with the details of the audit. 5. To Mr. Hogben.] The salaries are not all alike for teachers in the one grade; under the scale there may be twenty or thirty variations. The salary in Grade 3 may be anything between £150 and £180, and it may be further affected by the .teacher not having a certificate or only having a license to teach. As to mistakes in such a return, if the Department enjoined great care on the Boards I do not think there would be much either way at the end of the year. In the matter of adjustments I do not think it is all against the Boards; very often it is in favour of the Department. 6. Would the amount that you sent up be a determined amount, to which the Department could give its certificate to the Audit and the Treasury ?—The Department certainly would not have the same check upon the figures submitted by the Board as they have at present. 7. The Department could not of its own knowledge give a voucher for a determined amount? — Only that it had received a certificate from the Board to the effect that those were the amounts
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payable under the regulations. Even under the present system the Department is not altogether able to determine whether our figures are correct. To some extent it has to rely on the Board already. You would have to trust the Board's staff not to make such a mistake as putting the teacher's salary into the wrong grade. I would not say that such a mistake could not be made. If the Board's staff knew that extreme accuracy was necessary- I think there would be very few mistakes made... If there are a great many such mistakes now, perhaps the knowledge that the Department goes all over the figures again rather tends towards a slackening on the part of the Boards. If a mistake wore made by the amount being underestimated the teacher would let us know about it. If the amount were overestimated subsequent checks would show the mistake, and in such a case I think a teacher would not refuse to make a refund—in fact, the Board yvould be able to deduct the amount overpaid. 8. To Mr. It would be possible for the Audit officer to do the checking at the Board's office instead of in Wellington. The local Audit officer could check our schedules at the beginning of the year, and, with the exception of the changes, they would remain the same for the whole year. 9. The Chairman.} Could not the same return having relation to scholarships be simplified in this direction : the number of scholarships, their value, and what is due each quarter I—That,1 —That, I think, would be a simpler matter than the other. I see no difficulty in the way of carrying out such a reform. If mistakes do occur I think they can be checked in a reasonable time, and any overpayments adjusted. 10. To Mr. Pirani.] I do not think the present double inspection of the secondary department of district high schools is necessary. I think this is one direction in which the Department might save a good deal of money. The secondary departments are inspected by the Board's own Inspectors, whose reports should, I think, practically be accepted by the Department. I think the qualifications of our Inspectors are equal to those of the Department's Inspectors. As to medical certificates, I think the cost entailed by the second certificate might very well be obviated. On a probationer's entry into the service it is essential that the Board should be satisfied that he is in good, health, but I do not think a certificate should be required when teachers enter the training college, seeing that before they get their certificate —in another two years' time —the Department requires them to present a further medical certificate. There are three now required, and I think that two would be sufficient. As to probationers being put into schools when, they reach thirty in average attendance, I believe a very great saving could be made to the Dominion in this connection. It would also tend very largely to do away with the difficulty we have in obtaining teachers who are willing to go into the country districts. In most of the two-handed schools there is either a good brainy boy or girl who is quite fit for the work of a probationer. In this way a good many country boys and girls might be got to enter the service, who afterwards would not find the conditions obtaining in country districts so uncongenial as our teachers now find them. Ido not remember a case in recent years in which wo have disrated a teacher by transfer to a school of lower grade. With regard to mistresses in Grade 3 schools, it is not the Board's practice to transfer lady- teachers when the school reaches Grade 4. I think it would tend to improve the efficiency of the service if teachers who had reached pretty nearly retiring-age were allowed to accept a lower position without being penalized with regard to superannuation. I have a memo, before me bearing on that point. Yesterday a lady teacher who does not belong to the Institute asked me to bring that very matter before the Commission. She pointed out that it sometimes happens that, owing to circumstances over which a female teacher has no control, she may be disrated from, say, a Grade 4 school to a Grade 3 school, and in such case the basis upon which superannuation would afterwards be paid would not be a fair one. I suggested to her that there should be an alternative, that it should be based on the three last years or on any three consecutive years. It has been pointed out to me that the question of contribution comes in; but if such a teacher elected to take any three consecutive years it would be very fair to her. Her contributions, of course, would have to be commensurate; they would have to be based on the higher salary. 11. To Mr. Hogben.] I see by the returns which you hand me that the salaries of secondary teachers in district high schools throughout the Dominion amount to, approximately, £17,000. I am aware that to determine the grade of the salary- in the primary department you take the grade of the school as that of the combined average of the two departments. I have no idea what increase this made in the cost. 12. Could the Minister of Education, without inspection by the Department, be as well aware of the value of the instruction in district high schools as he is aware of the value of the instruction in the primary schools and secondary schools ? —I think the position is the same with regard to both. The Minister cannot himself be aware of the nature of the instruction unless he has reports furnished to him. I admit that primary schools and secondary schools have been carried on in. the same way for a long time, while this is not the case with the secondary- departments of the district high schools. 13. When new money is being spent is it unreasonable that the Minister should want to know a little about these schools ?—I should suggest that the Minister could find out more about them by asking for the Board's Inspectors' reports. As to free places, a free-place pupil can only be transferred from a district high school to a secondary school, or vice versa, under certain rather restricted conditions. The free place is transferable if the child moves from one place to another. I hardly see that it follows that the free-place standard should therefore be made uniform throughout the Dominion. Transfers from a district high school to a secondary school in another place are very few in this district. I admit that in the case of removal it is desirable that the standard of the pupil should be practically the same. 14. How are you going to see that the standard on which senior free places are given is the same unless the same officials inspect the different schools ?—lf the Department desired that
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information it could be suggested to the Board that its Inspectors should deal specifically with it, and give such particulars in their reports that the Department could gather it from the copies of the reports that would be sent. I admit, however, that the inspection of the district high schools by one officer would tend to uniformity in the work and in the standard. With regard to medical certificates, it may be that the Government have been advised by a medical authority that a medical certificate given to a person of from sixteen to twenty-one is not worth anything a year or eighteen months after it has been given; but I take it that the object of having these examinations is that the teachers shall not enter the permanent service physically unfit, and 1 say that examination on their entrance as pupil-teachers or probationers and before they receive their teacher's certificate would be sufficient. I know that a person who goes into a training college enters into a bond, but I do not think this bond would be worth the paper it was written on, if it came to a test. 15. May not unfavourable conditions of health exist when a young person enters the training college?—l will admit that, 16. Is it not better to spend half a guinea on a medical examination and save disappointment on the part of the candidate and expense on the part of the Government, or the parent, than to disregard the advice of the medical authorities and not require such a certificate? —f do not think so. We have had cases of young people not being able to pass their medical examination who have yet gone into the profession and made very good teachers. I say that before the Department grants a teacher's certificate is the stage at which you require a medical certificate. 17. To Mr. Wells.] There are not many disqualified by the second medical examination. It might be only one in fifty, and for that one —who will be caught in two years' time at any rate —all this expenditure is incurred. 18. To the Chairman.} There is a secondary institution in this building (Normal School). Some six months ago there were only about eleven pupils, but I understand the number would now be probably twenty-five or twenty-six. We pay the teacher of that department £240. As to the transfer of scholarship-holders, the Board's practice is to allow them to hold their scholarship at any approved secondary school in the Dominion. There is now no difference in our districts as regards age between the country and the town. 19. To Mr. Hogben.] The North Canterbury Board received a circular letter from the Education Department dated the 7th December, 1910. It reads as follows: " Circular memorandum to Education Boards : I enclose herewith a copy of the draft regulations defining incidental expenses of School Committees approved by the Education Committee of the House of Representatives for any remarks and suggestions which your Board may make regarding them. Copies of the Education Amendment Act, 1910, have not yet been printed, and probably will not be -available until next week. I therefore enclose a copy of the Bill in its final form. As that part of the Act (sections 2 and 4) relating to the payment of the allowance for administrative purposes and incidental expenses of School Committees comes into operation on the Ist January next, I have to request you to lay the matter before the Board at the earliest opportunity and to notify me of its decision without delay.—E. 0. Gibbes, Secretary for Education." The date of the passing of the Act was the 3rd December, 1910, so that it could not be sent out until after this date. I should like, however, to read my Board's reply to that circular, and then make an explanation. The reply reads: "The Secretary, Education Department, Wellington.—lncidental expenses of School Committees : With further reference to your circular memorandum of the 7th ultimo and the proposed regulations defining incidental expenses of School Committees, I am directed to say that the Board is of opinion—(l) That it is advisable that School Committees should continue to look after small repairs even if due to wear-and-tear, and pay for such out of their ordinary allowance; (2) that the cost of all paper and other stationery used for school purposes should be included among the incidental expenses; (3) that the item "salaries of caretakers " should be included among the incidental expenses, and not left for the Board to include or not as it might determine; (4) that the whole cost of water-service should not be charged to the incidental fund, the Board's present practice of sharing this expenditure with the Committees being preferred. With regard to (1), it appears to the Board that its present practice is more economical than the proposed plan would be, and that School Committees are well able to look after small matters of this kind. J3n the other hand, if the obligation of looking after all small repairs rests with the Board, it follows that, as a rule, some officer of the Board will have to visit the school and report, a procedure which will considerably increase the expenditure. With regard to (3), it may 7 be pointed out that the expenditure on caretakers' salaries amounts to from 50 to 70 per cent, of the whole allowance, and that the exclusion or otherwise of this item would materially affect the grant as a whole. With the modifications mentioned above, the Board approves of the proposed regulations.—H. C. Lane, Secretary." Mr. Hogben appeared to take a little exception to the following statement in the evidence submitted by the Board members on the opening day: "We may here observe that the new regulations regarding incidental allowances were framed without the Department having any consultation with Education Boards." This consultation came after the regulations had been framed by officers of the Department, and after such regulations had been approved by the parliamentary Committee. The Board submits that it should have been consulted before that took place, because after a parliamentary Committee have approved of regulations they are not likely to be modified much. There is a matter I should like to mention with regard to the Waltham School. Yesterday Mr. Lirmsden made a statement that the School Committee had chosen an applicant from among the approved number, and that the Board had refused to ratify their selection. I have looked carefully through the Waltham appointments, and I find that he refers apparently to a case that occurred six years ago. Six years ago, however, the Act was entirely different. The number of names submitted
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in that case was six, and the Board put them in the order of merit. The Board naturally appointed the teacher that stood highest on its merit list. Had it appointed the one which wished it would have stultified its own selection. Another matter : Some little time ago the Board drew the Department's attention to the uselessness and inconvenience of the certificate at the bottom of the quarterly attendance form, and asked the Department to make an "alteration, so that the teacher would not have to go to the Chairman for the signing of this return. It does not matter so much during the first three quarters of the year, but at the end of the year many Chairmen of Committees are very busy, perhaps miles away on another farm, and are not available for signing the return. One other little matter : I hope the Commission will take seriously into consideration the practice now obtaining by which the Department includes in the cost of administration Inspectors' salaries and allowances and architect's salaries. It seems to the Board that such expenditure should not be so classed. It seems to the Board unfair that an expenditure which considerably reduces its percentage of expenditure for the year like that should be included. I admit that with regard to the senior Inspector, whom the Board consults with respect to some matters, it would be a fair thing for some part of his salary—say, half —to be classed as Board administration; but the remaining expenditure in connection with the other Inspectors stands in the same category as expenditure on a teacher's salary. If the Department were to take over the Inspectors this large item would at once disappear, and it would be said "Look what a benefit the change has made." This expenditure was never included up till 1902. 20. To the Chairman.) I think it is necessary, in the interests of the children, that all private schools should be inspected by the Board's Inspectors.
Wanganui, Tuesday, 2nd July, 1912. William Allan Armour examined on oath. (No. 124.) 1. To the Chairman.] I am the Principal of the Technical School of Wanganui. I am M.A., M.Sc, New Zealand University, and am graded A.2. I had four years' teaching experience in the Otago Boys' High School, two years first assistant in the Invercargill South School, three years in the Collegiate School, Wanganui, one year second assistant in the North-east Valley, one year in the Otago Training College, and four years a pupil-teacher. I have prepared the following statement: —Primary-school syllabus : The weak point in the syllabus seems to me to be that too much is crowded into the time at present at the disposal of the pupils. I believe that all subjects there taught are necessary and beneficial; but 1 believe equally that the programme set for Standards IV, V, VI should be a four years' course, and not a three years' course as at present. This is equivalent to saying that there should be seven standards, with the proficiency certificate awarded on work of Standard VII. You must understand that this is not a reversion to the old Standard VII, but the programme for the three last years as at present spread over four years, with suitable intensification where necessary. The secondary- schools would then really start as secondary schools, and not spend the first year in covering the programme of the primary schools. The primary-school programme in mathematical geography- under the present system is too difficult, and should be considerably- reduced. History in primary schools is a sadly neglected subject. This applies to secondary schools also. A knowledge of history is essential to any one who wants to take an intelligent interest in the affairs of the Empire and of the world as a whole; and I certainly believe that every aspirant for political honours should show that he has an adequate knowledge of this subject. Mathematics : Speaking as a graduate of the New Zealand University and one who has made considerable study in science, I believe that the standard of mathematics is too low. I believe it should be an optional subject for an arts degree, and of a high standard; and compulsory and of a considerably higher standard, but not necessarily so academic in nature, for a science degree. Research in the science is sadly handicapped by insufficient training in mathematics. Regarding school mathematics, I think too much time is often spent in non-essentials. Provision should be made in the various public examinations for papers in practical mathematics — i.e., the mathematics adapted for the student in science, engineering, and the crafts generally. In a course of practical mathematics the subject is not dealt with in an academic way, but the non-essentials are omitted, and the student may easily arrive at logarithms, and even the calculus, a point not reached by the B.A. graduate. A. course of this nature is adopted here, and with great advantage to the engineeringcourse, including as it does various sciences and surveying. Overlapping : The question of overlapping between primary and secondary schools would at once be obviated were the scope of the present primary 7 syllabus extended over another year, with suitable intensification of certain subjects, notably English composition, history, arithmetic (including higher mensuration and elementary- algebraic notions), geometrical drawing, and construction. In regard to the question of overlapping between secondary and technical schools, I believe that in some centres there certainly is an unnecessary duplication of work, as where secondary-school pupils are doing commercial or agricultural subjects for which adjourning technical schools are perhaps better equipped, or where a technical school is doing literary work for which an adjoining secondary school is far better adapted. But any charge of overlapping cannot be laid at the door of the Wanganui Technical College. Here we have the following courses in actual operation : Secondaryschool course (otherwise called the general or science course), the commercial course, the engineering course, and the agricultural course, together with a few girls taking a grouped art course. This year we had a sufficient number of students to form a domestic course. The
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peculiar circumstances of Wanganui have combined to render this combination of courses, and the founding of a Technical College (i.e., amalgamation of Technical School and High School) an. ideal arrangement eminently suited to the needs of this town. A new Technical School was needed, and likewise a High School free to proficiency pupils, as in other centres. By the blending of the two into a Technical College with the courses mentioned above there is no overlapping with any other institution, and every facility is given for education, whether technical or secondary. True, there exists in the town a District High School, with a secondary department, doing work similar to that of our secondary course; but for a town of this size such an institution is obsolete and an anomaly, especially where there is a building in the vicinity far better equipped and staffed to carry on the secondary as well as technical instruction. I believe that whenever the population warrants it it is always better for pupils who have reached the proficiency stage to be separate from primary pupils, for they are entering the second phase of life, and have to be dealt with under a different regime. Even were all educational facilities equal —which cannot be the case in Wanganui—it must be admitted that the actual life of a secondary school, with its community of interests, its clubs, its cadet corps, its various sports, its regime, and generally the school spirit that pervades it, must be a better training in citizenship for pupils after the proficiency stage than the atmosphere of a primary institution. Any one interested in education cannot ignore these facts : they are in some respects as important as the teaching curriculum itself. We need only witness some of the great public schools of England, which, even with obsolete teaching and methods, produce some of the Empire's best citizens. I think the part of school life outside the schoolroom is apt to be ignored by our Education Department and writers on education generally. This certainly is the case in connection with technical education, though it is a phase of the education system that receives great attention in our best secondary schools, which are freed in a great measure from departmental control; but in the technical day schools that are springing up all over the Dominion one hears of no effort on the part of the Department to inculcate good tone, sports clubs, &c. When it is considered that the character and potential efficiency of our citizens are moulded in our school systeihs, no effort or money should be spared to make technical day schools as efficient in these respects as the ordinary secondary school. This College, at any rate, is as well equipped in the way of sportsgrounds as almost any secondary school in the Dominion, and this, in addition to our staffing, apparatus, variety of courses, equipment, library, cadet corps, clubs, &c, enables us to provide for the needs of our pupils a general or vocational education more in accordance w 7 ith their needs than can be done in a primary school having attached to it a secondary department. Combination of secondary and technical day school : An institution such as ours, where there is a combination of a secondary and a technical school, possesses many advantages over an institution that is purely secondary or purely technical. Ido not say that for a large town such an arrangement would be beneficial or even advisable, but there is no doubt that the arrangement is the ideal for a town of this size, having almost unique educational conditions. A pupil straight from a primary school may not have a particular bent, or, even if so, it may be too early for him to have vocational teaching. A year or two in our general or secondary course is undoubtedly the place for him, and the pupil may be drafted into one or another of the various courses as his aptitudes display themselves or as circumstances demand. The training is every whit as good as in a purely secondary school, the possibilities of development far more promising, and the actual equipment for the mass of the pupils must, in the nature of things, be superior to that obtained in the purely secondary school. Should it be decided that the pupil is to enter one of the professions or proceed to the University, a continuance of the general course provides adequate instruction to meet his case. If after a year in the general course it is decided that his future instruction is to be vocational, then we are in an exact position to decide the best course for him. We can dovetail the Whole scheme of work so that there need be no overlapping, and thus a higher degree of efficiency is obtained in a minimum of time. I also believe that in a college such as we have here we can give a more suitable education to a girl who does not intend to proceed to the University than is the case in a girls' secondary school. Besides the usual literary subjects, which we can adapt so as to be especially suitable to girls, we have every facility for instruction in commercial work, domestic science, and art, the three main courses taken by girls. The commercial and the art courses are made an integral part of our programme; and for every girl, whatever may be the course she is taking, we have every facility for instruction and practice in cookery, hygiene, domestic science, and dressmaking. We have not yet, owing to insufficient pupils coming forward, a full domestic course; but this is a matter of almost immediate probability, and w 7 e shortly- hope to have a hostel and equipment for practical instruction in housekeeping in its broadest and widest sense, the course to include the care of kitchen-gardens, practice in marketing, &c. Apparatus and equipment : I do not desire to say much on this phase of education. Ido believe, however, that chemical laboratories in technical schools should be equipped so as to encourage the study of technological chemistry, and that this phase of chemistry should form part of the programme of our pupil examinations. No attempt is being made in the Dominion to overcome the necessity of importing from Home experts in the chemical departments of our manufacturing industries. The technical schools are not doing their duty in this direction. I maintain that chemistry, where possible, should be given a practical and useful bearing. This might be done without spending so much time as is done at present in the theory and underlying principles of chemistry, with experiments to prove these principles—a phase of the subject beyond the scope of the average pupil. Pupils without any deep knowledge of the academic programme might become quite efficient as chemical experts in many manufacturing lines of industry. I instance the vocations of the painter, plumber, manufacturer of preserved goods, dyer, as only a few of those in which a knowledge of technological chemistry might be of immense benefit. I would like to say that within my experience the Educa-
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tion Department have been very liberal in supplying apparatus and material, and so have done immense work in the cause of the technical education. But it seems to me that the procedure that has to be gone through before obtaining material and apparatus is clumsy, unsatisfactory, and a source of delay and possibly- in cases of wanton extravagance. I believe it would be possible for the Department to have an expert in scientific and other apparatus who could travel round, consult the directors and inspectorate in the various districts, see what actually was required and what was most intimately suited to the needs of the district, and actually place orders for apparatus and material required to be imported. By this method I have no doubt that there would be a great saving of money and every chance of obtaining greater efficiency, and the ultimate result would be the system of technical instruction more effectively catered for. Regarding home-work, 1 hold the opinion strongly that it is both necessary and beneficial. I do not believe in lengthening the school day, for five to five hours and a half per day is ample for boys and girls at secondary schools. Indeed, where pupils have to travel considerable distances five hours is quite sufficient. A portion of each afternoon is needed for sports and the outdoor life of the school, but certainly pupils are under no hardship doing a couple of hours' study at home in the evening. They get on more rapidly, and their general discipline in school is much improved thereby. I believe that parents are just as anxious, or indeed more anxious, than formerly that their children should get on at school, and as a whole they have no objection to home-work; but it cannot be said that they take as much interest in seeing the home-work done as formerly. And I believe the reason is the widespread tendency- people nowadays have for evening amusements. If parents would continue to recognize their responsibility in the matter of education and exercise strict supervision over home lessons, and inculcate a proper spirit of respect towards their teachers and those in authority, together with a spirit of loyalty to their school, many of the trials and difficulties at present besetting the path of teachers would cease to exist. Attendance at evening classes : The irregularity of attendance at many of our evening classes has been a menace to the cause of technical instruction. In spite of all our efforts, and even in the face of the employment of thoroughly equipped instructors, the number of students attending many of the trade classes is meagre in the extreme. The instructors here have ascribed this irregularity and lack of interest to the allurements of picture-shows. Whatever the cause may be, there can be no doubt that the operation of the compulsory attendance class is a timely move upon the part of the Wanganui Education Board. Finally, as we are having a cadet corps (senior) attached to the school, and hence have an intimate connection with cadet matters, I would like to state that the services of so many assistant masters throughout the Dominion as officers of cadet corps should be suitably recognized. Their salaries in the majority of cases are meagre enough in all conscience. They are usually under a veiled compulsion to act as officers, while other masters on the same staff holding better positions are freed from the innumerable ties and duties connected with military training, instruction, and parades. The Education Department should certainly co-operate with the Defence Department in this matter, and see that adequate monetary recognition is made of the services thus rendered by the assistant masters of our secondary and technical schools. In the case of the subject of elocution it is my opinion that, wherever possible, elocution should form a part of the school curriculum, because in these days when so much interest is taken in public questions I consider it is very necessary that pupils should be trained not only to think, as the present course allows them to, but to be able to express themselves. We find all sorts of occasions when many of our cleverest men —men who might rise to great heights in the political or professional world, men who have fertile brains and fine opinions—are debarred from taking part in public life in the way they should do because in their youth they have never learned to speak in public. On the question of examination there has been a good deal of discussion as to the advisability- of examinations. I certainly think that in the primary schools the number of examinations should be reduced to a minimum. In secondary schools I do not see how we could do away with, say. term examinations. If parents are to find out what their children are doing I think it is necessary that they should receive terminal reports, and the only way in which the head of a school can find the exact position of his pupils, and even where the assistant master or the assistant teachers who are controlling classes can, at various intervals, find exactly the position of pupils, is by examination. I consider examinations a necessary evil; they are an evil I admit, and unless a better means can be devised 1., think they must go on. I certainly do think that the programme of the secondary schools is limited and bound by the examination syllabuses in the various departments. I think the secondary schools are run too much to meet the requirements of examination, rather than the examinations should be held to satisfy the requirements of the school; and that I think is a very weak point in our secondary and even in our University examinations. Plumbing :In this town a plumber may receive a license which will give him authority to exercise his trade as a plumber in this town, but not in any other town in the Dominion as far as I know. That is not the state of affairs which should be. I think that if a plumber receive a license for one town that ought to carry him over all towns. 2. To Mr. Wells.] In an additional upper standard I would not intensify the work, but make it more thorough. I think the best boys of the school are as good or better than the boys of ten years ago. The commercial classes are most popular and regularly attended, and are the largest. 3. To Mr. Kirk.] The inclination of girls is mostly towards office-work. They do general subjects in commerci_al work. In our commercial course they take foreign languages, French or German; they take first of all English, arithmetic (which has a commercial tendency), and then French; they take civics or history, then book-keeping, shorthand, and typewriting, dressmaking, cookery, and physical instruction, which includes swimming at the baths attached to the school; they have land drill in the winter term and actual drill in the baths- in the summerterm. I have had no difficulty so far in obtaining trained teachers for technical work. I think
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the whole difficulty in regard to plumbers could be obviated if each centre would form a Board consisting of (a) a recognized educational authority, (b) a member appointed by the Borough Council in the town, (c) an outside member nominated by the trade interested. The status of this Plumbing Board in each town should be recognized and their certificate should carry weight throughout the Dominion. 4. To Mr. Hogben.] 1 know the London City and Guilds Examination is under the direction of the Education Department. I am aware that it requires one engineer, one workman, and one other accredited person. I am of the opinion that the programme might be improved. 1 think it would be a fine arrangement if the examiners should consit of, say, a plumbing engineer, civil engineer, or mechanical engineer, well acquainted with plumbing, a master plumber, and the president, who is acquainted with technical examinations, and can therefore give a castingvote, f think a programme might be arrived at by a conference of plumbing directors and master plumbers, together with representatives of the Borough Council of the chief centres. 5. To the Chairman.] I am aware that the plumbing trade, as a trade, view with little regard the examination of the City and Guilds, London, and that work done in the Dominion and regarded by experts as high-class work is rejected by the City and Guilds, London. 6. To Mr. Kirk.] The number of pupils taking commercial is fifty-eight, eighteen in the second year. The second-year students, with one exception, are girls. 1 should say- that 80 per cent, at least of the teachers who are cadet officers would not be cadet officers if they were following any other profession or business. With a great number of the teachers it is a means to an end : they know the more efficient they are the more chance of promotion they have. lam aware that other business and professional men take up cadet work without looking for any reward, but the percentage, taking the general run of the business men in the community, is very small. 7. To Mr. Davidson.] I think a child might well remain at school to the age of fourteen. I believe a child is able to begin primary work at five years of-age. I think the average pupil cannot cover satisfactorily the work of Standard IV, V, and VI in three years. I am not so familiar with the work of the lower part of the syllabus; it probably could be curtailed slightly and the actual result be the same. I think, if educational authorities generally agree that eight years is sufficiently- long for a child to remain in the primary school, it would be better to arrange the syllabus in such a way that the average child could cover the work in eight years. I do not think, if the' present syllabus were arranged into eight grades, that the work suggested in the syllabus would be too heavy. 1 think home-work is necessary in the secondary schools, and equally so in the higher classes in the primary schools. I think one hour and a half each evening should be devoted to home-work in the three higher standards of the primary school. I think a district high school is unnecessary in a town having the population of Wanganui. i think that it really means unnecessary overlapping. 8. To Mr. Hogben.] I have noticed repeatedly that, taking a class of thirty-five boys coming with proficiency certificates, ten at least are a good year behind the others; the work is over their heads and they cannot grasp it. I would be in favour of postponing their secondary work. I think it advisable they should have external examinations at periods. I am aware that pupils can get junior free places and senior free places without submitting to examination, and I approve of this. 9. To the Chairman.] The pupils from the primary schools in history- are practically ignorant. We do not expect them to know anything about mathematics, but we do expect them to know more as a whole about arithmetic, so that we can go on with the mathematics. The average boys are barely ready to go on with the advanced arithmetic. We guarantee to find board and lodging for boys and girls coming here. I should favour the establishment of hostels for boys and girls in large secondary schools, so that the girls would get practice in housekeeping in connection with the boys hostel, and take turn about in cooking and a certain amount of the housekeeping part of the work. In other words, boys and girls should live in the atmosphere of the school. 10. To Mr. Davidson.] I would not, under the existing system of Education Boards, be in favour of the Boards assuming charge of the high schools within their districts, and have these high schools subject to inspection by the Boards' Inspectors; but if a Council of Education were formed and the inspectorate centralized, then I would be in favour of primary, secondary, and technical education all being under one control. 11. To Mr. Pirani,] I think if desirable that the Board, or whatever authority is hereafter constituted, shall have a general control over education within its boundaries, primary, secondary, technical; and that the particular branch of the work shall be relegated to the local Council, on which direct representation is given not only to the parents, but to all the bodies that support that particular branch, and even the Inspectors, assuming that they are drawn from the right class of men. I think that a secondary Inspector should have some acquaintance with primary-school work. Edward Crowe examined on oath. (No. 125.) 1. To the Chairman.] I am the instructor of engineering at the Technical College, Wanganui. I have had several years' experience as a mechanical engineer in various works; I taught a short time in the School of Art, Dunedin, and also at the Hillside Workshops. I have prepared the following statement : With a view to outlining a suitable course of instruction for lads destined for a trade the following rehiarks have been prepared, which are based on my own personal experience as a civil and mechanical engineer, and also from four years' experience as an engineering instructor : Before a lad is permitted to enter upon the studies appertaining to any trade he should first receive a sound grounding in English (reading, writing, and speaking), geography 7, history, freehand drawing from objects, arithmetic (fractions, decimal systems, and
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mensuration); he should also receive instruction in physical development. A good working knowledge of these subjects should be obtained at the primary schools, in order that he will be able to reason and observe before entering the technical school. No subject should be taught which will be of no possible use to a lad in his business or sociai relations, simply because they afford good mental training, when there are many useful subjects which if properly taught afford just as good or- even better training. The interest of the student will be with the subject for which he can see a use, and interest is a necessary factor in education. On entering a technical school he should be instructed in the subjects underlying the constructional trades, and should devote the whole of his school time to the study and practice of these subjects. The instruction should be given in such a way that the student will gain the power to take up and master new subjects by himself, ft should be the aim of the instructor to encourage the students to acquire knowledge by doing and observing. Periodical visits can be made by the pupils and instructors to works in course of construction or completed. During these visits the students will make sketches, measurements, and notes, to enable them to make calculations and write a report on the works visited. They should be brought into close touch with all the important works in the vicinity, and encouraged to discuss them. During such discussion the instructor should spare no pains in describing in detail the fundamental principles underlying the design of such works, calculations made to ascertain the cost, and suggestions offered and considered as to the possibility of lessening the cost. Every- encouragement should be given the pupils to collect useful information outside of the school, and tabulate it in such a manner that it may be referred to when necessary. In the school workshops some piece of work should be constructed from plans prepared by the students. In preparing these plans the fundamental principles on which this piece of work owes its existence are kept prominently- before the students. During the manufacture of this article the lad is encouraged to consider himself as partly responsible for the success of the work, thus creating a sense of responsibility. Every facility should be offered to encourage the lads to suggest methods of expediting the work, and these suggestions should be presented in the form of written reports, and accompanied by sketches and reasons. A study of the principles underlying draughting, surveying, mechanics, physics, and materials should be undertaken by 7 all those intending to follow up one of the constructional trades. With the rapid increase in the use of mechanical appliances in farming, it is essential that agricultural students should take part of the trades course. At least three weeks each year should be devoted to field-work, such as surveying, levelling, and collecting data generally. By imparting knowledge in the manner described, a foundation will be laid on which the student will ultimately be able to add the necessary knowledge to enable him to become an investigator, designer, executor, and administrator of works. An instructor should be possessed of knowledge other than that acquired from text-books, and should be in a position to answer questions and give advice without reference to books, thus commanding the respect and confidence of the students. To get the best results from technical education the pupil should be under the control of a man who has had other experience as well as that of teaching. The wider the experience the greater the benefits to be expected. Such a man will be better fitted to formulate and modify the studies to suit the individual, and ultimately advise as to the most suitable occupation to follow. A lad after receiving two years' suitable training at a technical school can be expected to give very good service to any master engaging him, and I maintain that the time spent in acquiring this knowledge should be counted as part of his apprenticeship. It should be made possible for a lad desiring to obtain a degree in engineering to take the first year's subjects at a technical school, and on satisfying the University authorities be permitted to enter one of the University colleges to complete the course. 2. To Mr. I have twenty-six students in engineering, ranging from fourteen to seventeen years of age. They seem to be bright and intelligent generally, but backward in arithmetic. I have had several letters from employers praising the work done by the boys. The boys construct tools which will be of use to them in their trades afterwards. They also engage in the construction of gas-engines, oil-engines, and small steam-engines, which are afterwards put into practical use. 3. To Mr. Kirk.] So far as I know, none of the boys have gone on to the University at Christchurch, but they have sufficient education here that when the opportunity presents itself they will be able to go into the higher branches of the business. We have no scholarships in engineering. 4. To Mr. Davidson.] My experience points to the fact that the students leaving the primaryschools have not sufficient knowledge of arithmetic and composition. 5. To Mr. Hogben.} I think it would be a very good thing if higher technical scholarships were open to the technical schools of the Dominion, in order that students might go on to Canterbury College and similar institutions. 6. To Mr. Wells.} I think that after working all day boys are physically unfit to continue their instruction at night-time. Especially during the summer months they come here half-asleep. These boys have been engaged in heavy work in the foundries from 7.30 a.m. to 4.45 p.m. I would suggest that in their case their masters give them time off on certain afternoons of the week to attend their classes. "7. To the Chairman? I think the decimal system should be continued rather than abolished, as it is more useful than vulgar fractions in engineering calculations. I think that the pictureshows have a prejudicial effect on the attendance of pupils at class-work. I think a liberal system of scholarships would be helpful to technical education throughout the Dominion. Cecil Turnley Cox examined on oath. (No. 126.) 1. To the Chairman.} I am the commercial instructor at the Technical College, Wanganui. I have had some experience in evening classes in the same College. I have prepared the following statement : Commercial education is intended to prepare the pupil to take his or her place in
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an office without the necessity of preparatory instruction on the part of the employer, and to put into practice the principles learnt from a school course. Its scope is rrot lrnrrted to giving an '■employer a junior with a working knowledge of book-keeping, shorthand, typewriting, and general routine, but the courses of work are designed with the rdea that where the student can devote the necessary time he will continue his studies and take the examinations in accountancy, auditing, and commercial law, conducted by the University, on behalf of the New Zealand Society of Accountants. To this end the Wanganui Education Board conducts annual examinations, with an outside examiner, in elementary junior and senior book-keeping, leading up to the examinations of the society. Periodical examinations are also conducted in the other commercial subjects. A good grounding in general education is to be desired before a specialized course is entered upon, and in commercial education this is especially applicable to mathematics. A business man engaging a clerk expects him, among other things, to be able to add accurately and expeditiously, but this cannot in many cases be said to be an attribute of the average student. Where general subjects require to be continued it necessarily retards the progress of a sjrecialized course, and the remedy would possibly be to devote the first year to a continuation of general work. This suggestion might be met with this objection, that many students are unable to remain for more than one year. With the examinations of the New Zealand Society of Accountants it will in future be a condition precedent that candidates have the Senior Civil Service or Matriculation to their credit; but this is more than the general education referred to, and in such cases it would be advisable for a certain amount of specialized work to run concurrently with preparation for these examinations. In these days of the universal use of the typewriter a junior is generally expected to have a working knowledge of the machine, and here the teaching is considerably handicapped in that no provision is made for the purchase of typewriters. Funds for this purpose having to be raised from cutside sources generally results in there being too few machines, and in old machines being kept in commission long after they have ceased to do satisfactory work. A growing number of business men seems to be recognizing the useful work performed by a commercial school, in enabling them to secure employees with a good knowledge of the work they will be required to perform, and here the College supplies an increasing demand. Some attempt has been made to bring the employers and prospective employees together, with a certain amount of success, but recent experience indicates that the demand for commercial students readyto take up positions is usually in excess of the supply. The boy or girl who goes to an office direct from a general educational course will make very much slower progress, if, indeed, he ever attains the same degree of efficiency, as if he were previously equipped with a knowledge of principles, enabling him to at once see the exact object, in a general scheme, of any work he may perform. 2. To Mr. Wells.] Generally speaking, I find the boys and girls from the primary schools very intelligent! Their mathematics and English require to be continued on to a considerable extent during their commercial work, and this, to some.extent, keeps the commercial work back. 3. To Mr. Hogben.] 1 think the arithmetic should be continued to allow them to take up a course of book-keeping. Ernest Henry Clark examined on oath. (No. 127.) 1. To the Chairman.] I am the chief instructor in woodwork to school classes under the Wanganui Education Board, and instructor in handwork generally to teachers' Saturday classes and at special schools of instruction for teachers in various parts of the Dominion; I am also examiner in some branches of drawing for the Education Department. I have had over thirty years' experience in teaching in all branches of the educational service. I am classified Dl by the Education Department. I propose to offer some evidence on the question of manual training in the primary schools of this Dominion. 1 have noted that some previous witnesses have referred to "frill" subjects in the standards' syllabus, and believe there is a tendency- on the part of conservative educationists to depreciate the value of such subjects as manual training and handwork generally. I should therefore like, as briefly as possible, to make out a case for the continuance of those educational methods implied in the expression " educational handwork." I cannot here do this in detail, but would draw your attention to a few general considerations. The leading educationists of Europe, and America to-day attach the highest importance to the inclusion of handwork in the curriculum, and. the bibliography on the subject is very extensive. The names of three or four authorities that occur to me at the moment are Heir Otto Salomon, Sir Philip Magnus, Professor Reichel, and Professor Armstrong, the last-named being the author of " The Teaching of the Scientific Method," and, with Professor Reichel. a member of the late Mosely Educational Commission to the United States of America. The report of this Commission, published in 1904, contains probably the most illuminating collection of facts and opinions concerning manual training in all its phases ever incorporated in one volume. The time is reallypast when apologies for the inclusion of handwork in the school curriculum were necessary. There are sound physiological and economic as well as psychological reasons why every child should go through a course of educational manipulative exercises from the earliest possible age. This has for years been recognized in the kindergarten system, and manual training is but the extension of the general principles of that system to more advanced classes. To possess its greatest value handwork must be an integral portion of the child's education, and should be correlated with the other subjects of fhe curriculum in such a way as to unify the instruction in most of them. It lends itself more thoroughly to the principle of correlation than any other subject. So apparent is this that handwork is often referred to as a method rather than a subject of instruction. As a subject it would increase the child's manual dexterity only —an end not to be despised; but as a method it cannot be excelled in the teaching of most branches of drawing, and it clothes the dry bones of arithmetic and geometry in a becoming garment. Some phases
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of instruction in the physical sciences are made more interesting and more educational if the pupils combine handwork with their study in the way of making apparatus for experiments in pirysics, mechanics, &c. And the examination of the principles underlying tiie shapes and methods of using the various tools is of the highest value to the child. Finally, the Inspector-General of Schools in -his report on his visit to America and Europe in 1907, referring to manual training ■in" New York,-gavs that one of the main features is " that all through the school course manual work is used as an adjunct to the language work, which is regarded, as on the Continent of Europe, as the central feature of the school programme." A_s one of the directors of. manual work expressed it, " We have established a conviction that the child not only learns to do by doing, but also learns to know by doing." (Vide report, page 46.) Handwork, per se, provides a constant training in the perception of mass and form. It gives opportunities for that coordination of the mental faculties with the control of the muscles, that intimate co-operation of mind, eye, and hand, that will be demanded in various vocations in after-life. " Cram " is impossible where handwork exists in either of its capacities as subjects or method. Its effect on the child's moral qualities may also be noted. In handwork the pupil's desire for a tangible result of his labour is gratified; honesty of effort is encouraged; there can be no slurring of work, no mistakes that are not self-evident and offensive to the instinct for efficient work. Each stage shows results : the pupil is encouraged to exercise patience and perseverance. The Education Department of this Dominion, through the Inspector-General and the officers organizing manual and technical instruction, has consistently encouraged the employment of handwork according to the best pedagogic connections. If, then, handwork claims an important position in the school, it is necessary that every teacher should be familiar with its aims and methods. The training colleges do good work amongst the teachers in this respect, and Saturday classes in this district, and probably in others, are also having a good effect. The Wanganui Education Board and its Inspectors have for years furthered the cause of handwork in the schools under their charge. (Vide Board's leaflet, No. 22.) The Saturday classes for teachers referred to above have been held in all the chief centres from Hawera to Palmerston North, and are doing good work. But something more is wanted. A good deal of misapprehension still exists amongst the great body of the teachers as to the raison d'etre of educational handwork. In fact, nry function of instructor to many of the teachers' classes referred to above is very largely one of removing false impressions. Again, many of the teachers —and this refers especially to female teachers —have not as part of their mental equipment the elementary geometrical notions implied in the requirements for drawing; with instruments, as set out in the standards syllabus. Without this knowledge many branches of handwork cannot be dealt with according to the best traditions. I say nothing of the conservative teacher to whom innovation spells anathema. He raises the fetish of the "three Es," forgetting, as Professor Armstrong has pointed out in his address to the Educational Section of the British Association in 1902, that there is a fourth " R," the object of all education, the cultivation of the reasoning-power. Another obstacle to handwork finding its proper place in the curriculum is its inherent qualit}? when used as a method of instruction of being slower, inasmuch as it is surer, in arriving at the desired end. Teachers are still forced to employ "cram" methods if the work of the syllabus is to be covered within the statutory limits of the school age: It is generally recognized that the syllabus is overloaded considering the time available, and that no portion of it can be jettisoned without impairing its usefulness. The alternative is again to raise the school age, in spite of the opposition to be expected from those who, through stress of circumstances, or from some less worthy reason, wish their children to enter upon money-earning vocations as early as possible. I will conclude by making a few suggestions which, if carried out, would ensure that handwork would receive a more adequate recognition in the school. (1.) Every school above Grade 4 should, if possible, have a specialist in handwork on the staff. (2.) Handwork should be made a compulsory subject in teachers' examinations for certificates. (3.) Teachers in any grade of school who are specially qualified to teach handwork (including drawing), and do so satisfactorily, should receive a bonus. (4.) Specialists in the higher branches of handwork both for boys and girls should be appointed from the ranks of teachers, or should undergo a thorough course of training in the pedagogics of their subject. (5.) Experts should pay frequent visists to schools for the purpose of supervising instruction in handwork and, where necessary, advising and assisting the teachers, as is done in this district in the case of agricultural instruction and drawing. (6.) The age of exemption from attendance at school should be raised. This suggestion is made apart from the question of handwork. (7.) Some better method than the payment of capitation as at present should be devised for encouraging the teaching of handwork. In my desire to be as brief as possible I have not considered the relation of manual training to vocational training, as, for instance, in the rural courses at district high schools. I am putting in photographs showing the work done by such classes during a two-years' course. Such work would have been impossible had there not been some manual-training woodwork in Standards V and VI. 2. To Mr. Davidson. I think that those who are responsible for the control of handwork in our schools might possibly be able to devise some better method of capitation. Under the present method capitation very often becomes the teachers' end, and then it is just possible that this may lead to "cooking" the rolls. I think the payments are made to the Board, and they supply material for handwork occupations out of their handwork funds. I know that the percentage taking manual training is very high in this district. I am not in favour of children travelling long distances and being away from home a very considerable length of time in order to attend woodwork or cookery centres. I do not think that woodwork and cookery should be left until the child reaches the technical school. It is a psychological fact that after the child gets past a certain age, which is best represented by that of the Fifth and Sixth Standards, there is a great deal more difficulty in training the hand. lam free to confess that the drawing with instruments
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has not improved. That seems at first sight to condemn woodwork as a method of teaching drawing. But there are special reasons in this district why drawing with instruments is not so good ~>-as it ought to be. 3. To the Chairman.] By mutual understanding between the officers of the Board and the head teachers of the larger schools the boys are exempted from drawing with instruments other "than as required for the practical drawing taken in their woodwork lessons. 4. To Mr. Davidson.} In my opinion the drawing taken in connection with their woodwork lessons is not of such a nature and is not of such a quantity as to compensate for the loss of the general geometrical drawing and knowledge implied therein as set out in the standard regulations. 5. To Mr. Pirani.] I think the Board is taking steps to remedy this : a gentleman has been appointed to supervise. 6. To the Chairman.] As a primary-school teacher I found the making-out of additional returns somewhat irksome at first. 7. To Mr. Kirk.] To all intents and purposes the jack-plane is the only plane we use, and that is introduced in the first year's course, but, unlike some specialists in the subject, I postpone its introduction until about the middle of the year, except for its use in truing up a piece of wood. I find that the majority of boys are very small and unable to use it with advantage, especially on our New Zealand timbers. 8. to Mr. Wells.] I am aware that woodwork as taught in the school is depreciated by employers. 9. To the Chairman.] I think the operative fears competition, even amateur competition. 10. To Mr. Pirani.] I do not think that the way I get the boys to use the jack-plane is injurious to their physique. Some of my pupils go on to the engineering classes, and the chief engineering instructor has told me that their knowledge of woodwork has given them a bent towards engineering. 11. To Mr. Hogben.] I have trained, probably, two dozen public-school teachers in woodwork, but I know of only one who is teaching it in his school. I think it would be an advantage if it could be arranged that teachers could take the woodwork classes in their own, schools. In that case I would be willing to act as supervisor in the same way as the agricultural instructors supervise their work. Re timber :In the Department's report last year some reference was made to the difficulty the boys have in working the timbers of this Dominion. Even the best is somewhat hard for the child—that is kauri, one of the easiest, perhaps; white-pine and totara are out of the question. It was suggested in the report that Boards might co-operate in importing from America what has come to be recognized as ideal wood —bass wood. It is easily worked, and is used for a large number of purposes in the States. If something of that kind could be done the Department itself would take the lead in the matter, and I think the woodwork instructors would benefit and the boys would benefit. There would not then be so much objection to the use of the jack-plane. Bass wood could be probably got for half the price of the NewZealand timber. Re sex physiology in schools : I think, it is not advisable that peripatetic lectures should be addressed to children in our schools, at any rate in our primary schools. The reasons, perhaps, should be apparent, but I think that all teaching of that kind should be relegated to persons who have the authority and confidence of the Department. David McFarlane examined on oath. (No. 128.) 1. To the Chairman.] I am chairman of the Wanganui District High School Baths Committee, and President of the Wanganui Chamber of Commerce. I have prepared the following statement : As president of the Wanganui Swimming Club and the Castlecliff Surf Club, and thus taking an active interest in swimming in Wanganui, I w 7 ould like to see this valuable acquirement made a compulsory subject in the syllabus of our primary schools. This would, of course, be subject to the fact that there w 7 as no physical disability on the part of the pupil, and a doctor's certificate that plunging into, cold water would be injurious to the child should be the only exemption. It would indeed be a valuable asset to the Dominion if every boy and girl of the age of, say, eleven years, knew how not only to take care of themselves in deep water, but to render assistance to others in distress. Every life so saved is a national asset, and who knows but that some life of exceeding value to the world may be saved by the fact that instruction in swimming was made compulsory in our primary schools. Here in Wanganui we are singularly fortunate in the fact that keen interest is taken in teaching swimming. In our primary schools we have a bath at Wanganui East, w-hile at the District High School, by public subscription a well-equipped bath was installed some two years ago. In the secondary schools we have baths at the Collegiate School, Wanganui Girls' College, and Technical College, and Hurworth Preparatory School for Boys also has its swimming-bath. Queen's Park pupils undergo regular instruction at the Corporation baths, and at Hurworth and the Boys' and Girls' Colleges swimming instruction is compulsory. In addition we have public swimming-baths at Wanganui and Gonville. Only recently in Wanganui we had experience of a young girl who had only that year learned to swim saving the life of a younger brother from drowning in the Wanganui River. The averting of a tragedy in that family, and the saving of a life to the Dominion, need not be emphasized. I have pleasure in stating that at the District High School and Queen's Park School some 271. boys and girls have learned to swim during past two years. Further, as an inducement to teachers to take an active interest in teaching swimming, I would like to see the capitation grant for swimming instruction paid on all pupils from Standard I upwards. At present it is paid only on pupils from Standard TV. In Wanganui we have a head centre of the Royal Life Saving Society, and the methods of release and rescue in the water, and resus-
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citation of the apparently drowned, are taught in all our schools, and competitions are annually held for medals presented by the society. It would be a good day for New Zealand if there was a branch of the Royal Life Saving Society in every town in New Zealand. This would come about if swimming were more actively taught throughout our schools. Turning now to another subject, as a business man I would like to see more attention paid to the teaching of writing. It is the common complaint of merchants that it is almost impossible to get a boy nowadays who "can write evert the semblance of a decent hand. My own opinion is that, whilst copybook work is perhaps necessary for beginners to learn how to form the letters, these should, say, at not later than Standard 1, be dispensed with and handwriting allowed to develop along more natural lines. How to hold a pen or pencil properly, allowing of the free use of the hand from the wrist, should be taught thoroughly; but who cares whether the formation of the letters is according to Vere Foster or any other copybook? The aim should be clear, well-formed letters, and not all after one pattern, indifferently copied; and is not the very fact that practically everybody writes a different hand an evidence that copybook teaching is not of much value? I fear that in our primary schools not nearly sufficient attention is given to writing, while in our secondary schools no attention is given whatever. Probably the system of cram and examinations is to a very large measure responsible for this. I would like to see our Chambers of Commerce throughout New Zealand take an interest in this subject and offer prizes annually for writing competition. 2. To Mr. Pirani.] I know of a firm who applied for a clerk : there were twenty or thirty applicants, and all had to be thrown out on account of bad handwriting, f cannot help thinking that handwriting is not so well taught now as it was some twenty years ago. I think it. would be a good idea if pupils were compelled to stay longer at primary schools than they are at present. 3. To Mr. Wells.] I think that in secondary schools cram is responsible for bad writing. 4. To Mr. Davidson? I think that if the capitation grant for swimming were extended through the whole of the standard classes the present amount of 2s. 6d. could reasonably be reduced. I say it should be one of the first considerations of any municipality that facilities for learning to swim should be granted to the inhabitants. I think it would be a very excellent thing if, where there are no facilities for actual swimming, land-swimming drill formed part, of the physical exercise, especially the resuscitation of the apparently drowned. 5. To the Chairman.] I would not be surprised to know that in the Dunedin district a large number of candidates for employment in the Telegraph Department have had their handw-riting unfavourably commented upon by the Justice of the Peace who is in the habit of taking their declarations for employment. [Specimens of handwriting from various schools were exhibited.] Denis Seaward examined on oath. (No. 129.) 1. To the Chairman .l 1 am art instructor under the Wanganui Education Board. I have been so employed for nearly four years. Previous to that I was for five years at the Royal College of Arts, South Kensington. I was at the Dover School of Arts, where I received my first training, for upwards of ten years. I hold an art master's certificate, and also the diploma of the Royal College of Art. As I have been asked to state a few thoughts as regards art matters in New Zealand, I have one or two ideas which I thought might be helpful both to masters and students. Firstly, that there be an Art Masters' Society in New Zealand, which would meet at given times, say, once a year or so, so that programmes of work could be discussed and suggestions placed before the Education Department, and that lectures be given by art masters free to the public, to rouse interest in the lay mind. Secondly, that if it be possible there be created a New Zealand art teachers' certificate which would be more in keeping with conditions in the Dominion, of which one of the tests might be an illustration of some Native legend. Thirdly, to avoid the system of cramming for examinations, which result in cheap knowledge which is soon forgotten, I» would recommend that a certain time be given, say, two or three years, before any student sits, as T feel that there is too much rushing at examinations before the student is properly prepared. Fourthly, freehand drawing is indispensable. Fifthly, that the pass standard in Class D and Junior Civil Service- Examinations is rather low 7. Sixthly, in the art students' interest T would say that there are 'very few encouragements, and I would suggest one or two, such as a New Zealand Sketch Club, which would have an annual exhibition at which works could be sold and awards gained and subjects set during the year, to be supported by annual subscriptions ; that if possible there might be one or two Government scholarships and a travelling scholarship with maintenance allowed. I look upon the study of art, not only in the way of drawing, painting, and design, but of general culture and refinement of taste, which leads to descrimination in music and literature, and if the student has learnt to appreciate its difficulties he has gone a long way. 2. To Mr. Kirk] As to the educative value of art, in every craft it should enable the workman to be as much an artist as a practical workman. I think signwriting is a subject that a technical institution would do well to adopt. I would take it in the art course from the point of view of design. 3. To Mr. Wells.] Where there is an art school in a town and also a technical school with art classes, signwriting would be more appropriately taught at the technical school. For teachers here there is an art class on Thursday evening for two hours and another on Saturday afternoon. Upwards of forty teachers come to these classes during the week. I superintend the teaching of drawing and wrist-work in the schools in so far as they come under my notice in the Technical School, but I do not go round to the schools.
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4. To the Chairman.] I think it would be of great benefit if the Directors of art schools in the Dominion were to assemble periodically for the consideration of matters affecting their schools. "T think it would be advantageous if the best work of the students in the art schools were gathered at the time of the holding of an industrial exhibition and exhibited there. 5. To Mr. Davidson?} I do not think English and arithmetic are subjects that ought to be taught in a school of art apart fronr a technical school. Leonard J. Wat kin' examined on oath. (No. 130.) 1. To the Chairman.] I am Supervisor of drawing instruction for the Wanganui Education Board. I am art master at the Feilding Technical School, and art master at the Collegiate School in Wanganui. I have been engaged in teaching drawing in the Dominion for over twenty years. I hold the South Kensington art master's certificate. Having been for a considerable number of years closely associated with the teaching of drawing in our schools, I should like to say something upon the subject. Of the general utility of drawing there can be no question. It enters, more or less, into almost every occupation nowadays, and in many trades and professions it is indispensable. Apart from its usefulness, drawing is of all school subjects the most important for training in children the faculty of visual observation. It is, moreover, a first-rate aid in making them thoughtful, accurate, and deft-handed. That the educational value of the subject is universally recognized is proved by the inclusion of drawing in every school curriculum. To every- one who has considered the matter it is quite evident that the teaching of drawing in our schools is not producing the best results. The masters of our art schools are agreed that there is something faulty in the methods of teaching drawing in our elementary schools. As one who has given the matter some considerable thought, may I be permitted to indicate some of the reasons wiry. In the first place, most of our teachers have at best an imperfect knowledge of the subject and of how to teach it, and in the second place the requirements of the drawing syllabus are, considering the disabilities of the teachers, too exacting. Before drawing can be improved we must simplify the scope of the work, and train our young teachers on more common-sense lines. They must be trained in drawing as they are in arithmetic and English. Not every teacher is either a mathematician or an author, but every teacher can work ordinary sums and write a simple essay in his mother-tongue. So with drawing : not every one can hope to be an artist, but every one can learn to draw tolerably w 7 ell as easily as he can learn to read and write, provided he is taught properly. There is in simple drawing, after all, more common-sense than genius. My observations have convinced me that in the matter of teaching drawing in our schools the subject is not made simple enough : overmuch is attempted, with the inevitable result of a want of thoroughness. Owing to the overcrowded syllabus there is no time to teach the subject thoroughly. It would be better if freehand drawing were made in the lower standards more a means of expression than a process of exact imitation. What young children need is plenty of practice of free exercises to train them to see form and to represent it in as simple a way as possible. Brush drawing should be used as an aid to freehand drawing and should not supplant it. The requirements for design should be of the most elementary character and well within the capabilities of the ordinary teacher, who, as a rule, cannot be expected to know very much about the subject. It is perhaps with the teaching of model-drawing that the majority of teachers have most trouble, and it is here that one notes the want of training. Were the children in the lower standards more thoroughly trained to observe the form of simple objects and taught something of the importance of direction of line, many of the difficulties of model drawing would disappear. Most of the younger teachers are able now to obtain a certain amount of training in this subject at our Saturday training classes, and so an improvement can be looked for. Drawing with instruments (geometrical, scale drawing, &c.) must always have a place in the syllabus not only because of its usefulness, but also for fhe excellent training in accuracy it affords. Considering the small amount of time available, the requirements should be modified. Memory drawing ought to receive more attention, being a splendid stimulus to the imagination, besides cultivating in the scholars habits of observation and making them more confident and self-reliant in their work. The systematic training of the visual memory by exercises in reproducing simple forms would perhaps do more towards raising the standard of drawing than any else-. One of the chief hindrances to the progress of drawing is that in the freehand exercises too much attention is given to the copying of lines, to the exclusion of the study of the forms enclosed by those lines. There is no doubt, too, that the mechanical methods of teaching the subject by an elaborate system of " scaffolding " lines, the pernicious practice of " lining in " everything with a hard wiry outline, and the uninteresting meaningless forms so often given as copies, have largely contributed to the making of drawing somewhat distasteful to teachers and pupils alike. The surest way to get children to draw well is to give them interesting things to draw. I am hopeful, now 7 that our own Board has made arrangements whereby teachers will be assisted in the teaching of drawing, that the subject will be gradually set upon a better footing in our schools, and so produce the better results desired. 2. To Mr. Wells.] I think that if brush drawing is taken in the right way it is an excellent thing. There is no better way of impressing form upon children's minds than to get them to represent a form in a way that a brush will do it rather than feel for the outline. In the way in which it is generally taught I think it is of no use whatever., I do not think it really matters where instruction in brush drawing is commenced. It is taken as part of the handwork course in a good many schools. In some they have it in the lower and upper standards. I have classes for the teachers on Saturday. At Feilding about forty to fifty teachers attend on an average. There are classes for teachers at four centres. 3. To Mr. Kirk.] We aim at training the boys to be quick in observation, and to apply that observation immediately- to paper. I think some of the boys are quite capable of making a topographical map of the country.
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4. To Mr. Davidson.] I cannot say that I would exclude any subject from the syllabus in order to make room for drawing, but I think the pruning-knife needs to be applied. I think the pruning should take place in nearly all subjects. Being a school-teacher myself, I know that the requirements in almost every subject are excessive. I have felt ever since I have been a .teacher that it would be better if a little were well done than that too much should be attempted. In arithmetic I would make the work less, and what remained more practical. With respect to a good many exercises, say, in profit and loss, stocks, percentages, working out the rates of interest, a great deal of time and patience is wasted, in my opinion, and if the same time were devoted to teaching children how to add correctly, by the time they left school they would be able to pick up in a week what w 7 as meant by compound interest if they had not thoroughly understood it in the school. In the lower school I think it would be an advantage to give the children at least two or three times a week some practice in drawing, say, twenty- minutes to half an hour at a time. As the children get up in the upper school there is hardly enough time to give them drawing more than once or twice a week, and then I think they should be given an hour at the very least. Given an ideal syllabus, from an hour to two hours a week should be devoted to drawing in the upper classes. I know that with regard to the syllabus things are not as hard-and-fast as they used to be. With regard to geography, too much is expected to be known about the political geography of each country. As regards woodwork, I have always been of the opinion that every boy ought to know a bit about carpentry, and there is no better time than when he is at school to give him the benefit of such instruction. I should be sorry to see woodwork and cookery taken out of the primary-school syllabus. 5. To Mr. Hogben.} I think the swing of the pendulum has gone too much in the direction of teaching drawing from actual objects, and that copies have been neglected to no advantage. I think history proves that drawing has always been taught by first showing children how some one else draws, and the only way to do that is to give the children copies. If the teacher himself interpreted the object before the pupils by making a drawing of it from the blackboard, this would be taking the subject in the way I mean; the children would be taught how to interpret. That is the best way drawing can be taught. The fault of most of the set copies is that they are so exact as to be beyond the capabilities of the children. I admit that in the upper classes the children can apply their knowledge of the elements of drawing with a great many of their other lessons, and can therefore get a good deal of practice oustide of the drawdng lesson. I think that giving the children some practice in imaginative drawing is excellent, because it brings out their own ideas and leaves them to express themselves in their own wav ; but I do not think too much of it should be done if the ordinary drawing is going to suffer at all. 6. To the Chairman? With respect to kindergarten training, from the little T know T think it is on the right lines of getting children to combine the eye and hand and brain in the one process. I feel that the primary-school teacher is at present not sufficiently trained in drawing to enable him to give the necessary instruction to the children. James Aitken examined on oath. (No. 131.) 1. To the Chairman.} I am headmaster of the District High School at AVanganui. I have been so employed for twenty years. Prior to that I was engaged as headmaster at the Geraldine School, and before that at the Ravensbourne School, Otago. I have been engaged in teaching for forty-two years and a half altogether. I am graded as 81, and am a Bachelor of Arts of the New- Zealand University. I have been deputed by the Wanganui District Educational Institute to bring under, your notice the following matters: (1) That the expenses of removal of teachers from one school to another should be borne by the State; (2) that the number of holidays in the year should be equalized throughout the Dominion; (3) that Junior National and Education Board Scholarships ought to be abolished, and the money so saved devoted to the payment of the boarding-expenses of those pupils who come highest in the list of the Junior Free Place Examination, and who require to live away from home to attend a secondary school or a district high school; (4) that the number of Education Boards should be reduced; (5) that Education Boards should be elected on the parliamentary franchise. In support of these desiderata, may I be allowed to adduce the following arguments : " (1.) That expenses of removal of teachers from one school to another should be borne by the State." The members of this Commission are aware under the law as it now stands a teacher may be transferred from one school to another, not within one educational district only, but from any school in one district to any school in any other district, just as a Railway or Post Office employee may be transferred from one part of the Dominion to another. Under the latter contingency a packer sent by the Department of Railways or Post Office enters the house, puts the goods carefully away into cases or crates under the owner's supervision, a van appears at the door, and when the employee arrives at his destination he finds his goods there with a minimum of trouble and expense to himself. But the teacher, who, though not technically, is really as much the servant of the State as any of them, bears all the trouble and expense himself. If my memory serves me aright the expense of mv removal from an inland town in Canterbury to Wanganui, twenty years ago, exceeded £20. The District Institute thinks, and I am entirely at one with the Institute in thinking, that if the servants of the other Departments obtain such conveniences, the servants of the Education Department ought to share in them. lam quite aware that teachers are the servants of the Education Boards and not of the Department, and that argument had a long and bad life in deferring the reform which the Royal Commission of 1902 brought about—l mean a colonial scale of staffs and salaries. But that difficulty was overcome, as most difficulties can be when they are confronted by statesmanship impressed with the necessity for reform. If it could be proved that the salaries paid to teachers so far exceed those paid to other servants of the State, something might perhaps be said in favour of allowing the former to bear the expenses of their own removals, though I should
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doubt the justice of it even then. But the average salary of the teacher does not compare at all favourably at any stage in his career with that of other State employees, and I venture to hope _ that the Commission will be able to 'recommend to the Legislature this very desirable reform. " (2.) That the number of holidays in the year should be equalized throughout the Dominion." In this connection 1 may point out that there is the greatest diversity in different districts, and even within the same district. It is not sought to make all holidays everywhere at the same time, because it is recognized that, in some places harvest, in others hops, in others potatoes, and in others something else, will have to be considered. But it is felt to be decidedly unfair that the teachers of one district should have to open school a week earlier than their contemporaries elsewhere; and, further, if such large and important matters as staffs and salaries could be put into a schedule of the Act, it is not too much to hope that this smaller matter can be effectively dealt with. " (3.) That Junior National and Education Board Scholarships should be done away with, and the money so saved devoted to the payment of the boarding-expenses of those pupils who come highest in the list of the Junior Free Place Examination, and who require to live away from home to attend a secondary school'or district high school." It may be taken as an axiom that the best way to spend public money is to spend it in such a way as to confer the greatest amount of benefit on the greatest number. We do not think that the present scholarship expenditure fills this bill. What we desire to see is not that a few may have plenty of pocket-money, but that as many as possible may have the means of obtaining the benefits of free education, leaving the question of pocket-money out of consideration. If the Junior Free Place Examination took the place of the National Scholarship Examination, and the competitors in each district were selected for scholarship benefits, the fees, books, and board being provided, we believe that the circle of beneficiaries would be very much widened, and the terms of the axiom stated above would be observed. As other teachers have brought this matter before the Commission I shall not further occupy the time of the Commission in dealing with it. " (4.) That the number of Boards of Education should be reduced." It is in this form that the remit from the District Institute has been handed to me, and I am personally of opinion that the number of Education Boards ought to be either increased in number of very materially diminished. I know perfectly well that increasing the number of Boards would mean that these bodies would sink towards the level of School Committees in proportion to their number, and the really educational portion of their work would pass into the hands of the Education Department—in a word, would become centralized. Some of my brethren are very much afraid of centralization, but I feel confident that with a Council of Education at the head of affairs composed of members representing all interests concerned, centralization could in a small country like ours do no manner of harm, and would remove many of the anomalies and parochialisms of the present system. If your memory, Mr. Chairman, can take you back twenty-seven years to the Parliamentary Union in which you as Minister of Education and I as a private member took part, you may remember that my Education Bill (which did not pass) made provision for the reducing of Board areas, and increasing their numbers —the area was to be that of county or borough. That is my private opinion still, but I am acting now as representative of the District Institute, and the proposal is to decrease the number of Education Board districts, thereby, of course, enlarging their boundaries. The reason is not difficult to find. In the little districts of Southland, Westland, Grey, Nelson, Marlborough, and Taranaki, there are very few large schools, and therefore few prizes to attract the better class of lads into the profession, and the children are the sufferers in the long-run. The remedy proposed is to amalgamate the smaller districts with the larger ones in the best way both geographically and otherwise, and so bring the teachers, and with them the scholars, under the better influences of the wider and more diverse areas. In this connection I need hardly say that the big districts —Otago, North Canterbury, Wellington, and Auckland —have been long what may be called close corporations. They had all manner of facilities for turning out trained teachers, and it was next to impossible for an outsider to find entrance to a position within their borders. Moreover, the teachers they turned out found ready admittance to the smaller districts, and the teachers there saw the best billets snapped up by teachers from without while they themselves were compelled to remain in one place. I have dealt with the matter from the point of view of efficiency, which ought, of course, always to come first. But I am certain that a reduction in the number of education districts would result in an enormous saving. If Auckland had Taranaki joined on to it, the additional work and expense accruing to Auckland would be the merest fraction of the work and expenditure of having two Boards with their offices, secretaries, architects, and clerks. I observed from a telegraphic report of the Commission's Christchurch session that a witness from the West Coast dealt with this matter from the same standpoint as I have, so I may leave the matter in the hands of the Commission. '-'(5.) That Education Boards should be elected on the parliamentary franchise." In this part of my evidence I fear that what I have to say may be somewhat statistical, but that can hardly be avoided, and the Commission will bear with me. Further, in bringing this proposal before the Commission, I am, I believe, doing the Boards of Education the greatest service that any one could possibly do them. lam seeking to increase their powers, and I am seeking to increase both their dignity and their usefulness. Let me illustrate. There was in this town recently a regrettable difference of opinion between the Mayor and an important borough official, and the circumstances were such that His Worship felt bound to resign the Mayoral chair, and submit himself for re-election, and the result was such an overwhelming approval of His Worship's action that the trouble was practically at an end when the numbers went up. Had there been a half-hearted response or a small vote, it is quite likely that the unpleasant conditions of the early portion of this year might have been as far from settlement as ever. And I say that if the Education Boards of this Dominion had behind them a vote of nearly 500,000 electors, their powers for good would be practically unlimited, while their powers for evil would be enormously curtailed. The powers of the Boards of Education were formerly much greater than they are
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to-day. They had their Building Fund and their General Fund, the former intended to be used for building and repairing schools, the latter for the payment of salaries, School Committees' allowances, and other things. The building funds could not be used for maintenance, but there -*was nothing to prevent the latter fund from being used for building purposes. The consequence was that the money that should have been used for paying the salaries of teachers was " conveyed use the word in the Shakespearean sense —to the Building Fund, in many cases to very large amounts. After years of patient groaning the Educational Institute succeeded in bringing the matter home to the Minister of Education, and the Building Fund was practically abolished, and from that onward every building that the Boards think necessary must be explained to the Department of Education, and it is one of the grievances of the Boards that the Department sometimes sends independent officers to check the statements made in the applications. I judge from what some of the witnesses said at the Commission's Duiiedin session. Further, the teachers' salaries are no longer paid out of the General Fund, but are fixed at the beginning of the year, and paid to the teachers through the Boards as a medium. Would these humiliating provisions ever have eventuated if the Boards had had each a constituency whose numbers ran into five figures 1 1 am bold enough to think that they never would. And if, as a consequence of your deliberations and your advice, this most desirable reform should become the law of the land, I am sure that the Boards of Education in this Dominion will receive such an addition to their dignity and their strength that all such safeguards could be dispensed with, and —let me say it with bated breath —perhaps even the teachers' Court of Appeal could be dispensed with. And now for statistics. 1 have attended the householders' annual meeting in Wanganui without being absent once fiom 1892 to 1912—twenty-one times—and I am safe in saying that the vote taken last April was the largest in all that time. On this occasion the highest scorer received seventy-three votes. Inquiry at the Town Clerk's office this morning elicited the information that the number of names on the roll for the recent Mayoral election was 5,700; but that included the suburb of Aramoho. If we take off 1,000 for that we shall, I think, be liberal. So out of 4,700 persons qualified to vote at municipal elections, less than a hundred exercised their privilege. Does this argue a deep interest in who shall be their School Committee representative? Very little. Whom, then, do the School Committees represent? I give it up. But the School Committees have the franchise for Boards of Education, and here is how the matter stands : I take it every member of the Commission is aware that schools of twenty-five pupils and under have Committees of five members; schools of from twenty-five to two hundred have Committees of seven members; and schools of over two hundred have Committees of nine. In the year 1910 (the latest year for which statistics are obtainable) there were 996 schools with Committees of five = 4,980 votes; 941 schools with Committees of seven = 6,587 votes; 159 schools with Committees of nine = 1,431 votes : total number of votes, 12,998. Now, the number of votes on the whole of the rolls of the Dominion at the parliamentary election last December was 590,042, and the number of persons who actually exercised their vote was 492,912. In the House of Representatives on the 31st August, 1910, Mr. J. A. Hanan, the present Minister of Education, asked the Hon. Mr. Fowlds, then Minister, whether he would introduce legislation placing primary, technical, and secondary education under the control of Education Boards, in order that divided control may be removed, duplication and overlapping may be prevented, and co-ordination, economy, and efficiency in educational administration may be secured. The Hon. Mr. Fowlds, Minister of Education, replied, " There would be, no doubt, much to be gained by placing all local education —primary, technical, and secondary —under one local authority; co-ordination between the several branches of education would be more naturally and more easily secured, and some saving might be effected in the cost of administration. It would be important, however, that the local body dealing with education should represent not merely the School Committees, who are concerned with one branch of education only, but the whole body of citizens; this would involve a material change in the method of electing Education Boards. The question is a wide one, and by no means simple as regards the issues it raises; but it will receive the serious consideration of the Government." According to Mr. Fowlds the Boards represent only the School Committees, and according to our statistics the Committees can be said to represent only the merest fraction of the householders. Can it be wondered at that Boards have not the respect that ought to be accorded to them. Respect, sir !we have to treat them with more than respect. These public bodies handled in 1910 no less a sum of the people's money than £961,853 17s. 4d., and the actual expenditure for that year"\vas £928,084 17s. 7d. I am certain that there will not be 15 per cent, of the members of this Commission who will not agree to advise the Legislature to adopt, if not the parliamentary franchise, at any rate, some extended franchise which will bring the members directly under the control of those whose money they administer. And there I leave the matter. May Ibe allowed to refer to a matter which I brought before the 1902 Commission? I know of a Board of Education which is also a Board of Governors. When that body ceases to be Education Board and resolves itself into Board of Governors, it is like passing from this troubled earthly sphere into one that savours of paradise. Why? Because in connection with secondary schools there are usually plenty of funds, whereas in the primary-school sphere there is a condition of chronic starvation. The reason is that the secondary schools have reserves of the Dominion's broad acres which produce steady and increasing incomes. I then, and I do again now, recommend that these reserves be nationalized, and then the money difficulty would, to a very large extent, disappear. It is fitting', too, that I should refer to the want of suitable recruits that is constantly being felt in connection with our schools in so far at least as boys are concerned. One would think that with a day of five hours and a week of five days the profession would be rushed. But we who are within know very well why the profession is not rushed. A boy goes into an office and works till 5, after which his time is his own; but if he goes into a school as a pupil-teacher he gets away, it is true, before 4 o'clock, but as soon as tea is over he has to sit down to study, and on till 9 or 10 p.m. he has to work the grindstone. Saturday is
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a holiday, you say? Oh, no! He has to go to the Technical College for his drawing or his singing. And doubtless he enjoys it, but do not give him credit for quite so much leisure as •- appears on the surface. And how does his salary compare with other youths in the Civil Service? Let the schedule hereto attached supply the answer. But imagine him past the apprentice stage and into a school of his own. " Mark Twain " when crossing the Atlantic in the " Quaker City " wondered if you could heave a brick in any direction without striking a captain of this or that or something else. Certainly, a teacher has a large number of different people to satisfy—Board, Committee, Inspector, parent,; and the Inspector is not always of one species, for we have our friends the Boards' Inspectors, we have Manual and Technical Inspectors, secondary-schools Inspectors, Health Inspectors, and Inspectors of Nuisances. Verily, sir, that I have survived through forty-two years of such ordeals is to me one of the wonders of the world. I have prepared the following statistics, which I desire to place before the Commission : —
A Comparison of some Scales of Salaries.
Some Minimum Salaries. Public Works Department (non-clerical)- — £ Overseers, First Grade .. .. .. .. .. .. 240 Second Grade .. ..210 Third Grade .. .. 180 Fourth Grade .. .. .. .. .. .. 150 Carpenter, First Grade . . . . • • ... .. 175 ~ Second Grade . . . . .. . . .. . • 166 Electrician .. .. • ■ • • • • • • • • 185 Storeman.. .. .. .. ■• •■ ■• •• 125 Teacher . . .. . . ".. .. • • •'. 90
Salaries of Juniors.
Some Miscellaneous Comparisons.
Bank of New Zealand : Most branch managers receive up to £500 per annum. Teachers : Maximum salary £400, reached only after six years in appointment, and only thirty such appointments in the Dominion. Average Salaries. Railway Department — £ s. d. £ s. d. Engine-driver 1„ ■ , . , , , , ~ - f 171 12 oto 195 0 0 Fireman l T ° theSe Uve t J °- b * the in- IIM n Q Mg 4 n Carpenters J creaBeS grMlted m 19H 1.148 4 0 „ 195 0 0 Police — Sergeants 218 8 0 „ 254 14 0 Detectives 273 0 0 „ 300 6 0* Constables 142 12 0 „ 191 2 0 Miners (Waihi award) (minimum) .. .. .. .. 171 12 0 Telegraphists (average) .. .. ■ • • • • • 183 12 0 Teachers (average) .. .. .. • • • • • • 134 8 8 „ (omitting pupil-teachers) .. .. .. .. 155 9 1
* Chief.
451
umber of Officers receiving y Number of Offioers in Department. y ' £500. £600. £200. £300. £400. Railways, First Division Post Office (clerical) Public Works, Division II Teachers 1,874 3,804 243 4,408 781 (41 p.c.) 922 (24 p.c.) 105 (43 p.c.) 617 (14 p.c.) 107 30 108 40 (45) ' (10) (approx.) 110 7 I 13 24 (2) I i 3
Cadets. First Year. Second Year. Third Year. Fourth Year. Fifth Year. Sixth Year. I Railways Post Office Recommended by Classification Board for Civil Service Bank of New Zealand .. Youths in Mines (Waihi award) Pupil-teachers Probationers . . £ s. 65 0 40 0 40 0 £ s. 80 0 50 0 55 0 £ s. 95 0 60 0 70 0 £ s. 110 0 70 0 80 0 £ s. £ s. 80 0 90 0 115 (£15 increments up to £160). (? £50) 62 8 60 0 78 0 85 0 93 12 100 0 109 4 [ 120 0 135 0 124 16 25 0 20 0 35 0 25 0 45 0 55 0
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Ships' Officers. (With Free Living.)
Teachers.
Increments. Post Office cadets, £15 annually; letter-carriers, £10; telegraph-messengers, £9 ; Civil Service cadets (recommended byJßoard), £15 ; _teachers, £5. Some Additional Notes. 1. Telegraph messengers (first year £39, second year £40), joining at fifteen, may reach £220 at twenty-nine years of age without competition for appointment. (See note 7 below.) 2. Telephone cadettes (£4O first year, with £10 increase yearly up to £100) : No qualifying examination necessary; no competition for promotion; no liability to transfer. 3. Pupil-teachers (£25, £35, £45, £55, £55): Dismissed on failing to pass examination; no. guarantee of employment. 4. Women teachers: Average salary of adults, £123 Is. 10d.; pupil-teachers, £44 13s. 2d.; all, £108 4s. 5. Defence officers: Junior lieutenant, £150; senior lieutenant, £250 to £300; captain, £350 to £400. 6. District high school assistants : Minima, £135; maxima, £270; average, £173. 7. Teachers : £200—Only one teacher in seven can reach £200 a year, and he may have to hold the same appointment four years to get it. £300 —Only one teacher in twenty-three can receive £300 a year, and he may have to hold his appointment seven years before he reaches it. £400 —Only one teacher in 147 can receive £400 a year, and he must hold the maximum appointment for six years before reaching that figure, the maximum in the service. 8. Beduction in salary : If a school falls in grade the salary of the head teacher is reduced £30 after two years, and that of the assistants £15 or £30. I also desire to place before you the following list of recommendations of the Wanganui District Institute of the New Zealand Educational Institute :— (a.) That in the interests of economy and efficiency the number of education districts should be reduced. (b.) That with a view to make the standard of education uniform throughout the Dominion the appointment and control of Inspectors should be in the hands of the Education Department. (c.) That as the proficiency certificate is the entrance certificate to junior free place tuition the questions should be set and the answers valued by the Education Department. (d.) That a uniform scheme of promotion for teachers should be drawn up by a conference of Inspectors and teachers, (c.) That to be acceptable to teachers any promotion scheme must provide for an appeal to an independent authority against any reduction in efficiency marks. (/.) That to secure greater efficiency in our country schools, and economy in administration, the pupils in all schools in Grades 0, 1, 2, and 3 should where possible be conveyed to a school of a higher grade. (g.) That the number of term examinations conducted by teachers should be reduced to two.
452
I Ship of Captain. First Officer. ; Second Offieer.! Third Officer. _J i I Fourth Officer. Tons. 4,000 3,000 2,000 1,000 Under 1,000 £ 516 444 396 348 312 I £ 240 228 216 204 192 £ 204 192 180 168 156 j £ 168 156 144 144 (132) £ 120 120 120 120 (120)
School. Head Teacher. .ssistanti ■rade 10(600) j^ lmmum " ' (Maximum . . 8c (400)' Minimum • ■ " .. n /«/w« I Minimum .. » /A ( 20 °) (Maximum^.. k nna\ I Minimum • • „ t> (J.Wl{ Maxlmum £ 370 400 310 340 270 290 210 240 £ 270 290 210 240 180 210 105 135 £ 210 240 150 180 135 150 £ 180 210 135 150 105 135 £ 165 180 120 135 £ 150 165 90 105 £ 150 165 90 105 £ 120 135 £ 120 135 £ 90 105
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(h.) That the course of instruction in arithmetic be curtailed and more evenly distributed, to allow time for work of a more practical nature in this subject. "(i.) That the programme of instruction in drawing, especially in geometrical drawing, is excessive. (j.) That Junior National Scholarships and Education Board Scholarships should be abolished, and that the money so saved should be devoted to paying the lodging-expenses of those pupils who come highest in the list of Junior Free Place Examinations, and who are required to live away from home in order to attend a secondary or district high school. (k.) That, as there is considerable dissatisfaction among teachers in regard to the working of the superannuation scheme, with a view of rendering the service more efficient legislation should be introduced to provide for compulsory retirement of men at the age of sixty, and of women at the age of fifty-five, and that the superannuation allowance should be based not on the last three years of service, as at present, but at least on the last ten years. (I.) That Education Boards should be elected on the parliamentary franchise. (m.) That the expense of removal of teachers transferred from one school to another be borne by the State. (n.) That in the acquisition of new school-sites, where possible, sufficient land should be set apart for the teacher's sole use, and that in any future legislation it should be made clear that the school glebe is under the teacher's control. (o.) That the statutory reduction of salary in the case of these teachers otherwise qualified, but unable to obtain the medical certificate, be not enforced. (p.) That the number of holidays should be uniform throughout the Dominion. (q.) That special capitation in manual and technical subjects be discontinued. I speak in support of those lettered (a), (j), (I), (m), and (p). 2. To Mr. Kirk.] I do not know the proportion of women who work in the Waihi Mine or on the railways or as carpenters. The proportion of women who are teachers is very large, but I cannot say offhand what it is. I have included the women in stating the average salary of a teacher. T have attended the annual householders' meetings for the last twenty years. Only once, I think, has a motion been carried asking that the election of Education Board members should be on the parliamentary franchise and not as at present by School Committees. I think the greatest number of people present at any of these meetings would be from thirty to thirty-six. 3. To Mr. Wells.} The number of school holidays is, I think, forty-seven in Wanganui, in Wellington fifty-two. Wanganui, I think, has a week less than the surrounding districts. With regard to the number of Education Boards, some people hold that, the number of education districts should be the same as the University districts. I think there should be more. In my opinion there should be such a distribution as would throw Southland into Otago, and part of the West Coast could be joined to the North Canterbury. Nelson and Marlborough could be thrown together, and possibly a part of Grey. There would not be very many good positions for teachers in Westland, Grey, Nelson, and Marlborough. To get over this difficulty the north part of the South Island might be joined to Wellington. There would not be very much more disconnection in this arrangement than we have at present. As to the North Island, I should think Auckland could absorb Taranaki very easily. Taranaki might perhaps be better administered by Wanganui, but this would make the district abnormally long. South Canterbury might be as well joined to Otago, and Hawke's Bay go in with Wellington. My personal opinion is that the double authority might be done away with, and that the Boards might be made very much larger in number and smaller in area. The County or Borough Councils might be made Education Boards. That is my own opinion, however, and I am here to voice the opinions of the Teachers' Institute. I think a grading: scheme of promotion could be drawn up for the whole Dominion. I have a very definite opinion that the teachers should be graded for the whole Dominion. I believe that the term examinations might very well be reduced to two. 4. To Mr. Pirani? It is optional on the part of a teacher now to accept or refuse a transfer. T understand that all Government officials may accept a transfer or not, but if they do not they lose promotion. If a teacher is removed from one place to another he should have his removal expenses paid. There are forty-seven school holidays in this district, —namely, thirty days at Christmas, five at Easter, Cood Friday, ten days in September, and King's Birthday. There are also five days at the option of the Committee, but they never srive them. Teachers may go away a day before their time, bufthat is not a school holiday—it is leave of absence for the teacher. 5. To Mr. Hogben.} I quoted, the average salary of teachers at, £155 9s. Id., omitting pupilteachers. The average salary of men alone, according to the 1910 returns, is £201 2s. Bd. 6. To the Chairman? I think it is fair to say that the teaching profession, having regard to its responsibilities, is the equal of any service of the State. The teacher should receive a salary equal to that of any other servant of the State. Ido not think it is fair that the salaries of girls entering the teaching profession should be as low as they are compared with the salaries of girls in the telephone service who do purely mechanical work. I have heard that in Otago the question of a change in the mode of election of members of Education Boards has been a burning one for years. I did not know that there was a similar movement in favour of inducing the Legislature to adopt proportional representation in the election of Education Boards, but I should be inclined to favour such a proposal. Under mv proposal to tack the Nelson District on to Wellington, an Inspector would have to be stationed at Nelson and made responsible for the efficient working of all the schools in the present Nelson District. This would have to be done similarly in Marlborough and Grevmouth. This Inspector would have to be removed from time to time as necessity arose. My opinion is very pronounced that as soon as the Inspectors become the servants of the Education Department we shall immediately have a uniform system. At present the teachers have to work more or less for the way the Inspectors examine the schools.
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J-ames Ktnloch Law examined on oath. (No. 132.) 1. To the Chairman.] I am headmaster of the Aramoho School. My educational status is CI: I have had twenty-seven years' service as a teacher —wholly under this Board. I appear on behalf of the Wanganui Branch of the Educational Institute. I have prepared the following statement : -" That, with a view of making the standard of education uniform throughout the Dominion, the appointment and control of Inspectors of Education should be placed in the hands of the Education Department." There are thirteen Education Boards in the Dominion, which in the administration of the Education Act vary materially in the area controlled by them and in the number of pupils within that area. Should the education districts be reduced in number it will follow that these conditions will be modified, but even such modifications will not, we hold, secure to the country the advantage that would arise from the control of the inspectorate by the highest authority in education. Under the present system of appointment the qualifications of those appointed vary from a Dl to an Al certificate, and in teaching experience and in efficiency the variations are as great. The opinion of the majority of those who, for many year's, have supported the reform we advocate, in the counsels of the New Zealand Educational Institute, and who have for several years in succession formed a majority of that body, is that the position of Inspector should form the highest rung in the educational ladder; that its emoluments and status should be such as to induce our most able and successful teachers to aim at that posiiton, and that appointments to the inspectorate should be granted only to those whose actual experience of teaching will enable them to deal wisely and sympathetically with the many problems of school life. The salaries at present granted to Inspectors are not now in many cases such as to offer any inducement to our more successful teachers to accept positions offered. Of the thirtyfour positions under the Board, the salaries of six are less than the maximum salary paid to teachers, seventeen carry the same or a slightly larger salary —which difference is little or no compensation for the discomforts involved —while only three reach £600 or over. It is in the smaller districts that the poorer salaries are paid, and if our education system is a national and not a parochial one there is no reason why pupils in Grey, Westland, and Marlborough should be deprived of the stimulating influence of men of wider experience and higher attainments. Whatever affects the standing of the inspectorate must affect the quality of the teaching in those districts under their charge, and we submit that if it is the aim of our education system to place within the reach of every child in the Dominion the best education that the finances of the country can possibly afford, it is in consonance with that aim that the chief executive officers of that system, for such the Inspectors undoubtedly are, should be those best qualified by literary attainments, by experience, and by professional skill to exercise the influence on education placed in their hands. Again, in the interpretation of the syllabus there are considerable differences. These differences have to a certain extent been modified by the adoption of the system whereby the Department now issues standard tests in arithmetic and in formal English. Although these cards have been generally accepted their rrse is optional; but the mere fact that they have been issued is a proof that in the opinion of the Department greater uniformity is desirable. In English composition, in drawing, in geography, and in history we venture to submit the variation in attainment would be found to be as great as in arithmetic and in formal English. It is somewhat difficult to judge the standards of education in a district by the pupils who pass from one district to another, for many of these are of the itinerant class, whose education naturally suffers from more or less frequent changes, and all of whom are affected to some extent by change of environment; but, without attempting to enter on invidious comparisons, it is a matter of common agreement among teachers that great differences in attainment are noticeable, and we suggest that by placing the inspectorate under the control of the Department, by affording them frequent opportunities for conference, by rendering more uniform the interpretation of the syllabus, and by issuing authoritative codes, there would be effected not a levelling: down but a levelling up of the general standard of education throughout the Dominion. " That as the proficiency certificate is an entrance certificate to junior free place tuition, the questions for the examination for this certificate should be set and the answers valued by the Education Department." There is now a recognized examination for junior free places conducted by the Department, although a student who has qualified for an Education Board Scholarship, or for a Junior National Scholarship, or for any other scholarship approved by the Minister, is also qualified as the holder of a free place, it being recognized that the standard of attainment in these examinations is at least as high as, if rot higher, than that required to qualify for a junior free place. Since there is a special examination for junior free places held by the Department it seems an unnecessary multiplication of examinations, which are already quite numerous enough, that there should also be a proficiency examination which serves only the same purpose. If the questions set for the Junior Free Place Examination are the measure of the standard of attainment it seems an anomaly that thirteen other standards should be admitted, for it is an indubitable fact that the standards for the proficiency certificate do vary both in the questions set and in the severity exercised in judging the excellence of the work. The object of the proficiency examination is presumably to secure the higher cultivation of the best brain capacity in the country, and it is only just that all pupils who are to secure the opportunity for taking advantage of higher education should have at least as nearly equal opportunity as can be afforded them. The proficiency certificate was substituted for the old standard certificate that used to be issued to each pupil yearly, and was intended as a leaving certificate at the time when the annual promotion of pupils was placed in the hands of the headmasters of schools, and was not originally Intended to be an entrance certificate entitling its holder to the privilege of higher education. It may be urged that the large number of pupils examined—a number, by the way, that shows a steady decrease in percentage —places an insuperable difficulty in the wav of such an examination. If the inspectorate were placed under the control of the Department it would not be so, for not only
455
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could the work of examination be more equally distributed but it could also be specialized, thereby increasing the rapidity and accuracy of the valuation. " That a uniform scheme of pro■"motion for teachers should be drawn up by a conference of Inspectors and teachers." A scheme for promotion is now the'burning question among teachers. In districts where no such scheme has been adopted canvassing of Board members and of members of Committees is understood to have become a public scandal. It may be that the amount of canvassing done and its effectiveness are both overestimated, but in the interests botli of the teachers and the taught it is wrong that men should be so tempted to lower their self-respect, for whatever tends to degrade a teacher in his own eyes must tend to lower his moral tone, and with it the moral tone of his school. In order to prevent, such tilings taking place, and to increase efficiency by securing promotion to the efficient teacher, it is expedient that some steps should be taken to secure the adoption of a uniform scheme by the Education Boards of the Dominion. The members of Education Boards assembled in conference in Wellington in August, 1910, resolved, " That Boards of Education be recommended to adopt schemes of grading and classification of teachers on a uniform basis with a view to the early formation of a scheme, for the whole Dominion." Since the Education Boards themselves are in favour of some such scheme it should not be difficult to formulate one. There are at present two schemes in operation, the Auckland and the Wanganui schemes, which do not differ very materially. Under the Auckland scheme fewer marks are allotted to scholastic attainments, epecially after the C certificate has been acquired—fewer marks to environment, and fewer marks per annum for service, although the maximum is the same. A promotion scheme has also been drawn up by the New Zealand Educational Institute which does not materially differ from the two foregoing. There is also a scheme of classification drawn up by Mr. C. J. Garland, of the Auckland Education Board, which, although somewhat elaborate, contains some good suggestions. All of these schemes could be considered by such a conference as we suggest, and an adjustment of their differences arrived at in such a manner as to evolve a satisfactory scheme for the whole Dominion. Such a, scheme would give Education Boards a wider basis of choice than now exists. At present, of course, every Board is to a greater or less extent a close corporation, and teachers are restricted in their prospects of promotion to the district in which they are employed. This, in the case of the smaller districts, tends to wear out enthusiasm (one wants a lot of it to be a teacher), and to weaken an incentive to progressive work. Had Boards a uniform system of grading they would know more nearly than they now do the professional standing of teachers in other districts as compared with the professional standing of teachers in their own. Under the present system of the inspectorate a scheme for the whole Dominion would undoubtedly present some discrepancies, but these would tend, we think, to disappear as the scheme got into working-order. " That to be acceptable to teachers any promotion scheme must provide for an appeal to an independent authority against any reduction in efficiency marks." Such an appeal is already allowed in the Railway service, and there is also an Appeal Board for the Post and Telegraph service; and it seems to us only right that an appeal should be granted against a degradation that might mar a teacher's prospects for life. So much of a teacher's efficiency in his work depends on his enthusiasm, and enthusiasm is a plant of such delicate growth that every care should be taken in the interests of his pupils that causes for discontentment should be removed. The great majority of Railway employees and the great majority of Post and Telegraph employees are engaged mostly in mechanical work, where accuracy and speed are the sole tests of efficiency. Teachers are dealing with living mental and spiritual qualities, the effects of their work are lifelong, and whatever injures their enthusiasm injures their efficiency to a far greater degree than in the case of other classes of employees. A sense of injustice inevitably causes such an injury, and as a guard against any teacher suffering from this we have passed this remit. Such a safeguard is provided in the scheme outlined by Mr. Garland. " That, as there is considerable dissatisfaction among teachers in regard to the working of the superannuation scheme, with a view of rendering the service more efficient by removing this cause for dissatisfaction, legislation should be introduced to provide for the compulsory retirement of men at the age of sixty and of women at the age of fifty-five, and to base the superannuation allowance not on the last three years of service, but on at least the last ten." When the superannuation scheme was introduced in 1905, one of the great arguments in its favour was that it would afford an opportunity for the older members of the service to retire without retiring to absolute poverty, and would give an opportunity for the promotion of younger men. The age for retirement was made compulsory at sixty-five and optional at sixty. It is generally allowed among teachers that when a man has reached the age of sixty his ideas in education have become crystallized, and he is in the great majority of cases no longer receptive to reforms in method and aims. This holds good more especially in schools under Grade 5, where the headmaster has to teach at least four and sometimes five separate classes, besides supervising the work of the others. To cope effectively with such a task is beyond the capacity of the great majority of men who have passed the age of sixty. These grades of schools form over 85 per cent, of the total number of State schools, and contains 34 per cent, of the total number of pupils enrolled. While it is true that a large number of these schools, especially in Grades 0 and 1, are taught by women teachers, who in a majority of cases do not remain in the service, it is also true that half of the schools in Grade 2 are taught by men, and above Grade 2 the men predominate. I can find no table showing the ages of the teachers employed in Grade 3 and 4 so as to find how many do not rise above that grade, but there must be a considerable number who end their days in these schools and in schools of Grade 5, which include 853 schools out of 2,096—0ver 40 per cent. It is in these very schools that teachers are tempted to remain the full term of sixty-five years, even after accomplishing the forty years' service, for the retiring-allowance is necessarily small, and they are unwilling to deprive themselves of the additional comforts that the additional salary yields. The same argument holds good though with lessened force in schools of higher grades. It is true
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that in schools above Grade 7 a head teacher's organizjng-power and his power of influencing his subordinates are more effective than his own actual teaching-force. In these schools a teacher CVer sixty may still be an efficient teacher, but they form only 100 out of 2,096 —that is, less than 5 per cent, of the total number—although they contain about one-third of the pupils. But even in these the argument holds good that compulsory retirement at sixty would tend to open up ' paths to promotion for our younger teachers, and would tend to keep our education system more in touch with the advances that are made from decade to decade. It seems strange that one of the most forcible arguments used to promote legislation in favour of a superannuation scheme should apparently have been lost sight of. "When the Superannuation Act was introduced in 1905 the superannuation allowance was based on the whole period of service, with a minimum of .£,52 for original members. The amended Act of 1908 made a very great difference in the basis on which that allowance is granted. The Teachers' Superannuation Fund was brought into line with the Public Service Superannuation Fund, and the basis on which the superannuation allowance is now granted is the average salary for last three years preceding retirement. This is felt by a great number of teachers indeed —in so far as personal contact with other teachers serves as an indication of opinion—it is felt by a great majority of teachers to be little less than a gamble, and we venture to submit that were the pros and cons of the question laid before the whole body of teachers, and were a referendum then taken, a great majority would vote for some other basis than that now adopted. Promotion in the Public Service is quite a different thing from promotion in the Education service. In the Public Service an employee advances from grade to grade with length of service and increasing efficiency, and cannot be degraded except for gross inefficiency or misconduct. Loss of grade may result in the case of a teacher from other causes. The opening of a new school may lower the grade of a teacher. The opening of the Wanganui Technical College and of the Wanganui Infants' School will affect the salaries, and consequently the superannuation allowances, of the head teachers both of the Wanganui District High School and of the Queen's Park School. The opening of the Durie Hill School has lowered the attendance at Queen's Park. The opening of the Palmerston West School will affect the attendance at both College Street and Campbell Street. We do not say that these schools should not be opened or fhat they are not required, but merely give them as instances that have taken place recently, and that might be multiplied by the dozen, of cases of grade being lowered by circumstances beyond the teachers' control. Again, a teacher's grade may be lowered by migrations of population. How many of the towns in the gold-mining districts have suffered from this cause! Ross has fallen from 150 to eighty-three; other schools on the West Coast and in Otago have suffered in a similar way, and, some have been practically wiped out. Again, it is a common experience that country schools rise to a maximum, remain at that maximum for a year or two, and then as the younger population grows up gradually becomes smaller. So that it may often happen that a teacher may find his last three years not by any means his moat remunerative. And yet these men who find themselves in this position receive a lower superannuation allowance than they may have paid for. Take the case of another teacher who has entered the service at twenty, who spends five years in a Grade 3 school, five years in a Grade 4, ten years in a Grade 5, ten years in a Grade 7, and ten years in a Grade 9. He will have paid in in capital sums from £525 to £530, not inclusive of interest, and will receive a retiring-allow-ance of .£246 per annum. Another teacher who does not rise above Grade 6 pays in in capital capital sums £475, and receives an allowance of £180. It is evident that the former is reaping where he has not sown, and there must therefore be many cases where to him that hath shall be given, and from, him that hath not shall be taken away even that which he showeth to have, even after he has paid for it. No teacher grudges his more successful brother the emoluments which are due to the position that his superior qualifications have gained for him, but it is not just that he should also receive a larger share of the benefits that have been paid for by all. The method of distribution approved of in the earlier provisions of the Act is that which would naturally appeal to a sense of justice, but there are difficulties in the way of its adoption. Before the introduction of the Dominion classification of schools and scale of salaries many of the teachers in the smaller education districts received very poor remuneration indeed, and to calculate their superannuation allowance would be an injustice seeing that they were doing exactly the same work as others who in large districts were receiving higher remuneration. This difficulty could be adjusted by calculating the allowarfce on the salary alloted to schools of the various grades since the passing of the scale of salaries, or it could be adjusted by the fixing of such a minimum and maximum allowance as would not press too heavily on the fund. A maximum of £300 has already been fixed, but this does not affect teachers, as the highest salary granted under the scale is £490 and the maximum is two-thirds of this amount. There can be no doubt that the payment of the allowance on the basis ot the whole period of contribution would tend to reduce the strain on the fund, and would at the same time tend to prevent the injustices that are now being perpetrated; and, as we have already said, we are convinced that a vote taken of the whole body of contributors would be in favour of such a reform as we have indicated, even were it to be gained at the cost of an increased rate of contribution. " That in the acquisition of all future school-sites, where possible, sufficient land should be secured to enable the teacher to keep a horse and a cow, and that in any future legislation that may be introduced it should be made clear that the school glebe is under the control of the teacher." We have been asked to bring this matter before the notice of this Commission owing to the fact that friction and difficulty has arisen over it. So pronounced indeed has the friction been that in one case —that of Clinton— it was found necessary to resort to a Court of law to decide between the claims of the teacher and the claims of the Committee. There has always been difficulty experienced in getting teachers of the more efficient type to remain in even the larger country schools, and as an inducement reserves varying from 5 to 10 acres were set aside, chiefly, we think, by the Atkinson Govern-
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inent, with the avowed purpose of giving the teacher's sufficient land for the purpose we have indicated. This object has in several cases been defeated by the laud being claimed and leased by the Committee for the purposes of revenue. While such action is, in our opinion, quite illegal, and while precedent shows that an action at law would support the teacher, it is desirable that both the expense and annoyance of such action should be avoided. In the Taranaki Province - many such reserves were made, and we have evidence to show that in quite a number of cases the School Committee has taken possession, and has refused to the teacher the right of occupation; It may seem a little thing, but away from railway-lines a horse is a necessity to a teacher, and in milking districts, strange to say, a cow is equally a necessity: 2. To Mr. Davidson.] I have always advocated that retiring-allowances should be calculated upon the average salary for the whole period of contribution. In my statement I suggested the last ten years simply as a compromise between the three last years and the full term of contribution, both of which have advocates. The full term of contribution would be sounder actuarially, and I believe a majority of the teachers would favour it. As to compulsory retirement at sixty, I have not calculated what this would cost. I believe teachers would accept it even at an increased rate of contribution. Ido not know of any other service where male contributors are compelled to retire at the age of sixty, but I do not know any other service where the strain on the employees is so great. With regard to the grading scheme for teachers in this district, as far as I know it has entirely done away with canvassing. I know of no case of canvassing of School Committees or of Education Board members. The scheme has given satisfaction to teachers generally. I think that wherever it is adhered to it cannot fail to give satisfaction. I think that a similar scheme made applicable to the whole Dominion would be a considerable advance on the present state of affairs. Before such a scheme can be brought into satisfactory operation I think it will be necessary for many of the small education districts to be absorbed in the larger ones. 3. To Mr. Wells.] I do not think it would be possible to get a grading scheme into workingorder at once. There must at present be different standards in the thirteen districts. I have had no experience of continuation schools. There is a considerable leakage from the schools at the Fifth Standard; those who pass the Fifth do not always go on. I think the principle of giving these children further education by means of continuation schools is a sound one. I believe in free books. They save a great deal of expense to poor people. But I think it would be well if the reader belonged to the pupil. It is necessary to take the reader home frequently for preparation of work, and it is objectionable to have these readers passing from one class of people to another. I do not think any parent has purchased the Miscellaneous Reader at my school, because no parent has been asked, if I remember aright. I think the supplementary readers have done good; they have provided a wider range of reading. I should say that, as a general rule, there is not a library in each school in this district. Funds for libraries are raised largely by means of entertainments. As to woodwork in the school, this has only been started this year, and I am not in a position to state the effect. 4. To Mir. Kirk.] So far as I know the local scheme of promotion for teachers has been successful. So long as the scheme is adhered to teachers feel that they have a prospect of promotion in proportion to their efficiency and their work. The Inspectors grade them from personal knowledge. I have no doubt as to the efficiency of a compulsory grading scheme. I would not favour a Dominion scheme if the inspectorate were not centralized, because no two Inspectors grade alike. If the Inspectors met in one place, I believe that by conferences the idosyncrasies of any one Inspector would be modified by the opinions expressed by the others, and so a more or less satisfactory grading scheme could be wrought for the whole Dominion. If the inspectorate is centralized we shall have a uniform interpretation of the syllabus; we should have more uniform grading, by the moving of Inspectors from district to district; we should have, I think, an upraising of the standard of education by the efforts of the Inspectors being stimulated by conference with one another. The Inspectors do sometimes confer now, but very occasionally. Up to the last eight or nine years the teachers were against centralization of the inspectorate; but they are not against it now. 5. To Mr. Hogben.] With regard to superannuation, I compared the retiring-allowances of two teachers; one of whom paid in £546 and the other £456. Ido not know what proportion of the benefits the £546 would provide for. I do not know that it provides for only two-thirds of them, assuming the teacher entered-the fund at a 5-per-cent. contribution. I did not assume that it provided for all the benefits; I merely quoted this as an instance to show how unequal was the superannuation allowance. The benefits outside the superannuation are : payment to the widow and children, return of contributions in any other event than death, and pension on retirement medically unfit at earlier age. I have not reckoned up all these benefits and seen how they would affect the comparison; they would be the same for the one man as the other. I have not subtracted them or their proportion from each other. No one but an actuary could •take all these things into account. 6. To the Chairman.] With regard to those men who were induced to retire on superannuation in the full belief that the one-hundred-and-twentieths computation would rule for all time and afterwards found that sixtieths were allowed to all the rest in the service, if the country would stand the expense I would favour retrospective legislation in such cases.
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Wednesday, 3rd July, 1912. William .Mace Luxford examined on oath. (No. 133.) 1. To the Chairman.} I am the secretary of the Wanganui School Committees' Association, "and for many years have been connected with the administration of primary-school work in this district. 1 have prepared the following statement : Transfer of teachers :At one time most School Committees were opposed to the system of transfer of teachers, but I believe they now recognize the system to be in best interests of education. Personally, I think country teachers at least, if not all teachers, should be transferred every two years. I think it is not right that teachers in the backblocks should be compelled to stay more than two years at any school. Neither should children be compelled to take the whole of their primary course under one teacher. I believe it would be better in the interests of education if all teachers in the Dominion were transferred from one school to another every two years —the cost of such transfer to be borne by the State. With regard to the transfer of teachers, I would like to see a special Committee appointed for each district to deal with the matter of transfers, comprised of, say, the Chief Inspector for the district as Chairman of the Board, and one member representing the School Committees' Association. Where there is no association the School Committees to appoint a person to represent them on such special Committee. The object of the special Committee is to relieve the Board of a little of its work. Centralization of schools : I believe the time is coining when the centralization of schools will have to be considered. The problem of finding sufficient space for school buildings and adequate playgrounds seems to be growing more difficult every year, more especially in the towns. 1 am of opinion, apart from the above, that better results would be obtained, less teachers required, and expense generally curtailed if, for instance, taking Wanganui as an example, two large schools were built, in the heart of Wanganui, one for Standards f to VI and another for infants and primary classes : all children in town and suburbs to attend these schools; the State to provide means of conveyance free to and from such schools for children over a certain radius. School libraries : Most experts testify to the value of libraries, and children who are in the habit of reading good books are found to become far more proficient at school than those children who have not had the same opportunity. I think the State should provide travelling school libraries, or, better still, institute free libraries for the people on the lines or the system known in California as the county free-library system. A county free library is a free library which is supported by the county, and which gives service to every resident of the county. The county unit has been decided upon as the logical one in California, for the following reasons : (1.) California is the second largest State in the Union, and is much too large to be served adequately or economically through any State system of travelling libraries. (2.) Municipal libraries cannot serve the large percentage of population living in colonies and in remote parts of the county. (3.) Many municipalities have no library, and are glad to combine into a larger unit, which by co-operation means much more economical, much better, and much more effective library service. (4.) Small municipal libraries are glad to have near them and in close touch with them a large library which supplements their own collections, and which in no way interferes with the local administration. (5.) Every school district in the county may, by co-opera-tion with the county free library, receive a library service otherwise impossible. (6.) The county is a large-enough unit to give more adequate support to the library with a small tax levy. The county free library is, as stated above, a library for all the people of the county. It is perfectly simple in its method of operation, following closely that of a large city with its branches in different sections of the town. The only difference is that a city library has the municipality for its boundary, while the county free library has the county for its boundary. In a county free library the headquatrers are established at the county seat, and in charge of a county librarian who has had training and experience in library work. The librarian visits all parts of the county, gets acquainted witli the people, ascertains the book needs of the general public, the schools, the clubs, &c, and makes collections of books to be placed at each branch, with special reference to the needs and desires of that particular locality, the largest collection being placed where the demand is greatest. These collections are changed in part or entire, as the community no longer uses them. In addition, if a book is desired which is not in the local collection it is sent from the central county free library; or, if not found there, it is supplied from the State library, all shipments being free to the borrower. In this way, as soon as a person is in a county free library system he is practically sure of complete library service—of receiving any book which he needs, and of receiving it free of any charges, either in transportation or service. In very small communities the books are usually placed in a store post-office, or anywhere convenient to the public. In communities large enough to need it reading-rooms are maintained, in charge of a custodian, who is pard a small stipend by the county, and who keeps the rooms open for whatever hours it will be used. The reading-rooms are being welcomed as a strong influence for good in the small communities. Supplied with newspapers, magazines, and books, they offer a most acceptable social centre. The county free library law is an enabling Act, making it possible for any Board of supervisors on their own initiative to establish a county free library, the following steps being required by law: (1.) Adopt a resolution of intention. (2.) Publish the notice of intention (this must be published three times so as to cover fully two weeks). (3.) Adopt resolution of establishment. Blank forms for the above three steps can be obtained from the above State library. (4.) Appoint a county librarian who has been certificated by the Board of Library Examiners (see the law, section 6). Experience in the counties that have already established county free libraries shows that the supervisors in any county need only to know that their people want the county free library. So every individual interested, as well as clubs, granges, and other organizations, should present their requests and make their wants known to their supervisors. Assistance can be had from the State library and from the Board
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of Library Examiners. (1.) From the State library: (a.) Copies of the law. (6.) Information •as to any point which is not clear in the law. ■ (c.) Blank forms for petitions for those who prefer to communicate to their supervisors in that way. (d.) Blank forms for the three necessary steps of the supervisors—the resolution of intention, the notice of intention, and the resolution of establishment, (c.) Information as to the estimated income needed to establish the work in any particular county. This last information can be had from the State library, because the reports of the librarians of the county free libraries already established are on file there, and from thenexperience and results obtained in those counties it is a simple matter to estimate the costs ami the needs for any particular county. With regard to school holidays, 1 think that school holidays should be the same throughout the whole of the Dominion—that no one school should have more holidays than another. With regard to the syllabus, I think there should be a common interpretation. . -iii i • 2 To Mr Wells.] We have about twelve schools in Wanganui and suburbs, and in my opinion these schools might be grouped into two. I think as far as practicable small country schools should be closed and the pupils gathered into central schools, if means of conveyance were provided for the children. 1 think the teachers should be transferred after two years, particularly in the backblocks. I do not think that tire surroundings there are conducive to good teaching. I think that a common interpretation of the syllabus would be brought about if Inspectors were placed under a Central Department. I think that so far as the present interpretation goes schoolmasters are allowed to interpret the syllabus their own way, and in many instances some masters in interpreting the syllabus are inclined to endeavour to do too much and to take on more than they can really manage. 1 think that if the Inspectors were to interpret the syllabus commonly that sort of thing would be dispensed with. 3 To Mr. Hogben.] I think a school of about 1,250 could be managed. i To the Chairman.} One teacher in America said that they had in a school library seven hundred books, and the fifty that they were receiving from the county free library were worth more than the seven hundred books. This was in California. John Donald MoK.enzie examined on oath. (No. 134.) 1 To the Chairman.} I am a clergyman of the Presbyterian denomination, stationed in Wanganui 1 am a member of the local School Committee, and have been concerned with the administration of primary-school work for some time. I have prepared the following statement- The State has undertaken the education of the children. The principal aim in education is the production of character. Therefore some text-book of morality is an absolute necessity. The best-known text-book of morality is the Bible. There are in existence several books of selections from the Bible which serve well for the purpose of school lessons. It is m the best interests of good citizenship that all schools should begin the work of the day with a lesson from such Bible selections, and that the pupils should repeat simultaneously the Lord's Prayer. What is known in New Zealand as the Nelson system is inadequate, though to some extent it works satisfactorily. H is difficult to find a sufficient number of persons with time and qualification for the work. I have for many years given scriptural instruction in State schools, and have always had every facility to do so from the teachers both in Victoria and in New Zealand. This is important work 'and worthy of more attention than it receives. To be sufficient and successful any system of Bible teaching must be a regular part of school-work. Some such system as that of New South Wales is advisable. , . . ~ 2 7'o Mr Davidson.] We carry out our religious instruction in Wanganui according to the Nelson system, except that we have only a quarter of an hour instead of half an hour Lessons are given by the different ministers of the town. We usually agree on a certain series of lessons : for example, last year we took the Gospel of Mark, and lessons were given thereon I think the Nelson system would work very satisfactorily where sufficient teachers could be obtained but it is not an "easy matter to get persons of leisure with the qualifications to do the work Apart from that, it is'quite satisfactory as far as it goes, but it does not go sufficiently far. I would advocate a modification, of the New South Wales system. T think that perhaps goes further than we might be expected to go, but I think some modification of that might very well be adopted. In fact that is what lam advocating—that the lessons be given by the teachers as a part of the ordinary school curriculum. The New South Wales system goes beyond that,_ inasmuch as it oives the right of entry to the school to the recognized ministers of all denominations, and, m my ■Tudo-ment, that interferes too much with the work of the school. _ 3. 770 .1/r. Pirani.] Ever since I have been in Wanganui I have given lessons regularly every week from 9 o'clock until a quarter past, ..„-,, , ~ i i 4 To Mr Davidson? I would not make the giving of these lessons by the teacher compulsory, but I think a very large proportion of the teachers would be only too glad to give them. I would make it optional,'but I think the opportunity ought to be given in the interests of education 5 To the Chairman.] f was not aware that, in some districts, the law is openly broken in so far as religious instruction is carried on during school hours. I am aware that in Victor,a the complaint was made that the last half-hour of the week was unsatisfactory, inasmuch as the children were tired out and not in a fit state to receive instruction. My opinion is that it is impossible to get voluntary teachers during the week from the Sunday schools bible schools, &c and as it is in the best interests ol' good citizenship that all schools should begin the work ol the day with religious instruction, I advocate that it should form part of the school curriculum. Louis Cohen examined on oath. (No. 135.) 1 To the Chairman?] I am 8.A., barrister-at-law, ex-member of the Senate of New Zealand University I have not prepared anything in writing, but there are two or three matters 1 wish to speak 'upon. Firstly, touching upon what I call the degradation of our spoken English in
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the Dominion; secondly, on the matter of the constitution of Education Boards; and, thirdly, some views upon technical education. As to the first matter, I think it is beyond controversy that' the English spoken in the Dominion of New Zealand has become characteristically colonial, if I may so call it. It, fortunately, has not reached the despairing depths of what we NewZealanders call " Orstrailien," but it is in very great danger of touching that point. 1 know of no"influences at work in this Dominion to check this, either prompted by any of those responsible for education or by any apprehension on the part of the public of this Dominion. I know of no influences that have any tendency whatever to check what is admittedly, I should say, a blot upon our national life and habits. Some four years ago at the University Senate's meeting at Auckland I brought this matter up. It was not difficult to make out a very good case, and the Senate resolved, at first almost despairing as to how they could in any way touch this matter, that the examiners in English for Matriculation and elementary examinations should set such questions in the examination papers as might test phonetically the habits in pronunciation of the candidates and their knowledge of the pronunciation of English. I am not aware that the examiners in English for Matriculation and elementary subjects have always set questions on this point. Certainly the last papers for Matriculation in English did not contain any such questions. The object of the Senate was to attract teachers' attention to this very important matter. Now, it has been said that the English our young people speak is the English of their teachers. It has been said that the teachers in the public schools of this Dominion and the secondary schools do not speak good English themselves. I am not talking about grammatical English; I am talking about good English, and I will attempt to define that later on. I do not think that is true on the whole, but I think it is mainly true. Then it is said that the teachers in the schools speak good English, that the good English they speak is impaired by the baneful influences of home and home life, that the parents do not speak good English, and that that neutralizes the influence of the teacher. But whatever the reasons are, you rarely find a New Zealand man or woman who either speaks in casual intercourse of things, or who gives evidence in the lawcourts, or who comes as a clerk either in your office or in any other office, or who sings a song, or who attempts to recite, you hardly ever find one of those who speak English with distinction — good English. Now, may I define what I mean by " good English." I am not talking oi grammatical English; I am talking about English spoken with some sense of its beauty, some sense of its euphony, some sense of the spoken English as being as beautiful a language as any language in the world, if spoken with conscious effort to preserve it, and collaterally spoken with some view that the speaking voice itself can be cultivated into a thing of beauty. I deny that the Italian is a better language to sing than is English. I deny that the French is a better language; I think it much worse, if I may use that word, because of its nasal production, its nasal tone. The idea that Italian is the best language to sing, too, is a survival of that now happily gone-by time known in music as the era of Italian aria in opera. I think there is nothing more beautiful than to hear English spoken by people of culture and refinement, and with some sensibility of the beauty of the language they are speaking. There is nothing more beautiful in music than to hear an English man or an English woman sing an English ballad or song in English, whether a translation or not, with fine diction and with fine vocal sensibility, if I may so call it. I do not think, gentlemen, that I need make out a case. I need not prove my case that our English in the Dominion has become degraded and is becoming more and more degraded. Now, when we come to the secondary schools, it is suggested, I do not know with sound contention, that the teachers in the secondary schools are of a higher grade and more cultivated than those of the primary schools, and the children in the secondary schools have better example, better influences, than those in the primary schools. It may be that teachers in the secondary schools have higher apparent scholarship than those of the primary schools. But let me give you an example : I know a secondary school of great eminence in this Dominion in which the girls were giving a play, either by Goldsmith or Sheridan —that school of writers who certainly were very conscious of the beauty of the English that they wrote and composed —and the girls in the secondary school pronounced words like these : murit (merit), umpossible (impossible), jestice (justice). There was hardly a girl who spoke good English within the definition of good English that I have set up myself. And those girls were coached in these plays by some of the teachers of the school and by ex-pupils of the school. Associated, of course, with the speaking of good English is elocution. lam not convinced that the teaching of elocution in schools is"" a cure for the evil that I am attempting to represent to you, because elocution is the art of speaking; but it is the speaking itself that I am concerned with. I think that the whole Dominion ought to be awakened to the fact that teachers, even in the most elementary schools, should not be chosen as teachers unless they are persons of some culture in the speaking of English. These teachers are being brought into association with children at the imitative age, and they will be responsible for the kind of English that the children will speak throughout their lives. The governesses in the homes of the people in England are chosen with the greatest discrimination, chosen because of the English they speak. One governess in the home in England is preferred to another because of the refinement of diction. May I say that there is nothing more characteristic of the refined English man and English woman, particularly the English woman, than the beauty of their speaking voices and the beauty of their diction. Ido not know how what I consider to be a great evil can be checked. I speak of it as a great evil because it is a national possession that the language we speak should be exalted to its highest beauty. A great deal of the beautiful poetry which is our everlasting national possession is almost better spoken than read. It is fatal to the reading of some of our great poetry that it should be read as it is read by pupils in schools and read by teachers in schools. It has been said that one of the processes that tend to degrade the speaking of English in New Zealand is the number of Scotchmen who are teachers. I reply to that by saying that dialect is in itself a thing of beauty—it is not an impurity —and in my experience I should say that the
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Scotchmen of New Zealand, out and out, speak better English than the New-Zealanders. The most beautiful reader that I ever met in a school was my old schoolmaster, the Rev. James dimming, who used to be the headmaster of the West Christchurch School in Christchurch, and so beautifully did he read that it was a reward to the school for their industry that he should read to them for a quarter of an hour at the end of school day. Now, sir, Ido not know what cure there is, but I do think there should be in this Dominion one or two men or women in each of these Islands whose sole purpose it should be to travel round amongst the schools and to have intercourse with the teachers, and with the school-children in their play and in their work, and to correct imperfections such as they find them, to speak to the teachers and to the children in good English, perhaps read to them some English, and to illustrate to them how unbeautiful their own speaking is by showing them how beautiful it is to hear good English read and spoken. It is a serious national loss that the beauty of English should be impaired. In the Province of Canterbury, where I spent my youth, we were fortunate in having amongst our earliest settlers people who spoke beautiful English. I do not know whether their influence still survives in Canterbury. I am not saying that is exclusively where good English is spoken in New Zealand, but I say it should be spoken throughout our Dominion in every sphere and phase of our life. The way to get it, to hope to get it, is to see that our teachers, from the lowest to the highest, speak the kind of English that I have attempted to suggest to this Commission should be our national possession. On the second matter Ido not wish to say very much—that is, on the constitution of Education Boards. I am, not one of those who think that the only right kind of governing body should be a body of experts, but I do think that the constitution of our Education Boards should be so altered that the Boards should represent that portion of the community that is really interested in education. I think that the Education Boards as at present constituted do not differ in point of qualification from the ordinary Road Board, or Licensing Committee, or Town Council, or Borough Council, or, may I say, members of Parliament. I thinkthat on every Education Board there should be one or two men, by whatever franchise they may be selected, but selected because of their association with education and with educated persons of some knowledge of educational systems, some knowledge of how to deal with experts, some knowledge of how to assess the value of asserted qualifications of applicants for educational posts. Some of the Education Boards have within their control secondary schools, and require some knowledge of the value of the testimonials that are brought forward, the value of the person for the post. As far as lam aware, if Education Boards are qualified to do this, that qualification is purely accidental. I think the Education Boards as at present constituted, voted for by School Committees, are not capable for this important function, except perhaps because of some accidental qualification. It has occurred to me —it may be a tentative suggestion—that in every educational district the whole of the graduates should vote for one member of the Education Board —I mean a graduate of any University recognized by the Education Department. If the graduates are not already interested in • education, giving them, this power may make them interested, as it is their duty to be. Incidentally I may say that the graduates of the University of New Zealand are very faintly interested as a body in general education. They have their vote for the election of a member of the Senate. If you gave them that power and the franchise T have suggested it might make them interested in education, and might result certainly in one or two men being chosen for the Education Boards because of their qualification in the region of education. As to School Committees, the way that they are elected in country districts you cannot expect these Committees to choose men for the Education Boards on any other grounds than, for example, those upon which a Justice of the Peace is appointed in a country district. The result is that you do not get on Education Boards an association of men who are really best qualified to control or to exercise the functions of an Education Board other than the administrative functions. I do not say anything about that. These men are perhaps business men in a small or large way, and they may be trusted with the administrative functions, but these are to my mind the least important. Now, as to technical schools. It seems to me that the technical education of this Dominion, apart from mere manual instruction, should begin somewhere and should end somewhere: that it should be a continuous association with the education that leads up to it, and it should lead somewhere. It seems, to me that you will never have the incentive to high technical education unless there is a course of study approved of by the headmaster of the college which results in either leading to university work or in leading to a diploma given by the college itself. That diploma would be an assertion to the outside world that that student is sent out with some guarantee that he has fulfilled his work in the college. Mere desultory attendance at lectures at a technical college can end in nothing of advantage. The mere erection and creation of classes at a technical college is only the beginning of things : there must be the class, there must be the thoroughly qualified teacher, there must be the course of study, and there must be a recognized end to that course so far as the college is concerned. It is hoped that a school like this one (the Technical College of Wanganui) will have, or should have, a relationship to the work of the University; that it should lead either in its branches of engineering, in its technical side, or in its arts course, to the University; unless it leads somewhere in connection with higher education its work must be misspent. Now, on the actual, the technical side, I have not much to say except this : that up till quite recently you could in vain look for an employer in Wanganui, either in a mercantile or a law office, who has over been able to get from the Technical School in Wanganui a boy who was any good whatever in typewriting. Ido not know why. Mr. Pirani: A good job, too. Witness: It cannot be a good job if there is the pretence of instruction, which in the result is zero. 2. To Mr. Pirani.} It were better to abolish the classes in typewriting and everything else unless there is some good teaching and good discipline, and something that leads somewhere. That
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is my own opinion, but it may have no value. 1 think the time has gone by now to discuss the question as to whether the typewriter is not ruinous to individuality. The typewriter has now come to stay, and no office is equipped without it. People have not time to decipher the bad handwriting of the children who come from our public schools. 1 know Matriculation classes have been started and have not prospered. I know that a very capable barrister here delivered some lectures 'u-pou commercial law, and he bad to abandon the lectures. I know a very able barrister is now lecturing on law in a popular way. He started with nine students, he has now got six, and I doubt if he will have that number in a short time. 3. Are there not enough lawyers already?—] do not think there are enough good lawyers. There are a good many law students in Wanganui who get assistance from the profession. I would suggest that law classes should not be held at the Technical College unless there is a demand for them. I have examined several secondary schools. I think the examination system is in a sense necessary, and in a sense baneful. J think that a perfunctory inspection of a school is of no value whatever. I should say that, given a good staff, a competent headmaster or headmistress, if worthy of their position in a good secondary school, ought to be better trusted to report to the Board as to the result of the working of that school than any system of examination can do; but yet 1 think the time has not arrived to dispense entirely with external examinations. I think too much stress is laid upon examinations. 1 think the reason why you find so much more care in the speaking of English in the Old Country is this : that languages mean so much more to them. I mean that every accomplished man or woman speaks French. When you get among the Germans they speak very good English; there is care and particularity- about their pronunciation. The French people do not speak very much but French, and all these influences go to the preservation of their own particular language. As to Education Boards, I can think of cases where the Wanganui Education Board has made mistakes in the appointment of teachers through the Board not possessing sufficient knowledge of teachers' qualifications and of educational matters. The Board, it is true, has had the advantage of valuable expert advice from its Inspectors. It should not, however, be compelled to delegate these important functions. I consider that the Wanganui Education Board is not composed of educated or cultured men. I venture the opinion that there is not a single member of it who has ever been inside a secondary school or a college as a pupil. These were the men who were governing educational matters in this large district. 4. To Mr. Wells.] My object, if I may say so, in instancing the attention paid to the selection of governesses at Home is to show that there are influences at work in England which tend to preserve the purity of the language. As we have not the choice of governesses in that way generally throughout the Dominion it behoves us to see that teachers are qualified. 5. To Mr. Davidson.] I think the degradation of the spoken English in the Dominion is not more marked in any one province than another, and is due mainly to carelessness, laziness, indistinct utterance, and slovenliness. 6. To Mr. Hogben.} I think that Dr. Parkin, when he visited New Zealand eight years ago, if particularly struck by the good pronunciation that he heard in New Zealand, could have met only the cultivated and refined people here. If the training colleges have principals who are particular in the matter of pronunciation and enunciation. I should say it would be an excellent thing. 7. To the Chairman.} I think the fact of a youth coming to a technical school and there listening to a popular exposition of law will be helpful to him in his studies and office-work. James Grant examined on oath. (No. 136.) I. To the Chairman.] I am the supervisor of school classes in elementary agriculture in the Wanganui District. 1 was the second teacher to begin school-garden work in Otago about 1899. I am classified Bl by the Education Department, and am a Bachelor of Arts. I have prepared the following statement : A considerable number of boys who pass the Standard VI with proficiency take up the work of the district high schools or the technical day school. As most of those boys are not taking any of the public examinations it was felt that a course must be mapped out for them. This course has been named the " rural course." In making this the following considerations have been kept in viewr The course is a continuation of the primary course. It is a liberal mental-culture course. It is an agricultural course in which a thorough grounding is given in the sciences of most importance in agriculture. While not strictly a vocational course, a certain, amount of farm practice is taught at the Marton School Farm. Even if the boys do not go on the land the training will be a very great advantage to them. In carrying out the course we aim at teaching the boys to think for themselves, while at the same time we try to develop their common-sense. As the school farm is a new departure I may be permitted to give some details. We are indebted to Mr. James G. Wilson for the use of about 5 acres of ground near the Marton Railway-station. In addition to giving us the use of the land, Mr. Wilson places at our disposal every Monday a man, three horses, and a number of farm implements. Without his generous help we should have been unable to start. Boys from Wanganui, Marton, Taihape, and Feilding can assemble at the schoolroom we have alongside the farm at 9.30 a.m. The attendance at this school presses somewhat severely on the boys from Taihape, some of whom have to rise at 3.30 a.m., ride several miles in the dark, stable their horses, and catch the train at Taihape at 6 a.m., and then travel by train forty-four miles. However, they seem to stand the strain very well, and are amongst our most alert scholars. At present the boys have three hours and a half teaching in the schoolroom. The subjects for this term are first aid to animals, farm mechanics, and animal husbandry. The first subject is taken by Mr. D. H. Rait, M.R.C.V.S., a veterinary surgeon who was in the service of the New Zealand Government for some ten years,
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and now for some years in private practice. The second subject is taken by Mr. 0. A. Banner, who has recently come to this district. Mr. Banner was trained at Hawkesbury, and was subsequently on the staff of that college. The third subject is taken by myself. The outdoor work is supervised by Mr. Banner and myself in turn. As there is only a limited amount of outdoor work for the boys at this season of the year, a few boys are selected to do it. These boys miss a lesson or a portion of a lesson, but they are expected and invariably manage to find out from their mates what the lesson was about, and are able to show in their notebooks a synopsis of the lesson. The boys take turns in lighting the fire, making tea at dinner-time, washing the cups, and cleaning the school. The Taihape and Feilding boys leave at 2 p.m. The other boys spend an hour or more at outdoor work. Occasionally some of the boys work till 4.30 p.m. It all depends on what has to be done. On a farm there are many little jobs to be done, and as it is impossible to give lists of these it is expected that the boys will see for themselves what ought to be done and do it. I have been very much pleased with the thoughtfulness and initiative of many of the boys, and the good will they exhibit when doing their work. Very often the work is of such a nature that old suits of clothes or dungarees are necessary. These are-donned cheerfully, and when the work is over these suits are hung up in an orderly manner in the boys' room. The lessons are illustrated by pictures, diagrams, and lantern-slides. But in order to make the course complete we need more land, a few farm animals, and a man residing permanently on the place. Then it would be possible to give the necessary practical instruction in animal and dairy husbandry. Some arrangement could then be made for a few boys to camp at the farm for a week at a time. These would learn how to milk, and how to feed horses, cows, and calves. It is good practical work to be able to feed a calf. Then the boys could have the necessary practice in testing the butter-fat production of the cows. The milk would be weighed night and morning, and tested two or three times a week, and all the results would be carefully entered up. The outdoor work for this year has been devoted to cleaning and preparing the land for the crops we expect to plant in the spring. The ploughing has been done by the older boys, the harrowing and grubbing by those who are younger. Several of the boys handle horses very well, and most of the others are learning. If we had a few boys resident on. the farm they w 7 ould learn to groom, water, and feed the horses. This part of the work is dealt with theoretically in class, but with the exception of the week we camp at Feilding there is no practical application of the lessons given. The outdoor work to be carried on during the remainder of the year will be carried out on farm lines as closely as possible. It will be necessary this year to grow a considerable number of cultivated crops; but next year we hope to experiment with wheat, oats, and barley as well. In growing roots this year we have in view the clearing of the ground, but as farmers grow roots for the feeding of animals we should like to be able to do the same. It would add immensely to the interest of the boys if they knew that the stuff they were growingwere intended to feed the animals that belonged to the school. In actual farm practice not much experimentation is done. The farmer's object is to get the best possible return for his labour. In our case, while doing some experimental work we should prefer to grow stuff to feed animals of our own, and at the same time grow one or two selling lines. In the case of farmers it is more important to be able to read intelligently the accounts of experiments carried out by experts and adapt the results to their own use. I would rather teach boys along these lines than attempt a series of elaborate experiments. Experimenting is really advanced agricultural practice, and could not be attempted with any prospect of success seeing that we can visit the farm but one day in the week. The Department of Education very kindly send us a number of copies of the New Zealand Journal of Agriculture. These Journals are read with avidity by most of the boys. I doubt if the Journal has many more interested readers. As I have mentioned the Department, I wish to say that in our efforts to establish the practical side of agriculture at the Marton Farm we have received most sympathetic treatment from Mr. E. C. Isaac, the Education Department's Inspector of Technical Schools. Quite recently we applied to the Department for a supply of tools for farm-work, and at last meeting of the Board word was received that the application was granted. It is difficult to gauge the attitude of farmers as a whole to this class of work. We have in the district some farmers who have worked very hard to get some practical agriculture taught to the pupils of the district high schools. Mr. J. G. Wilson, of Bull's, has supplemented his advocacy by giving us the use of some 5 acres of land at Marton Junction, as well as the use of his farm implements and horses. Mr. Ernest Short, of Almadale Farm, Feilding, welcomes us to his place, where we have an opportunity of studying his magnificent herd of pedigree animals. Of farmers in general it is difficult to speak. As a class they are not much impressed by theories about education or anything else. Still, they are open to conviction if concrete instances are placed before them. I think we will have the very cordial support of the farmers if we prove that we are giving the boys a useful course at the Marton Farm School. Several of the leading breeders in both Islands have promised me photographs of some of their pedigree stock. I may now be permitted to give a short description of the farm camp at Almadale. Last October we had about forty boys under canvas at Mr. Short's Almadale Farm. The weather was perfect. Mr. Short arranged that everything that could be done for the boys was done. Mr. Short's manager spent many hours every day in teaching the boys. The boys got up at 5.30 a.m., when a number went to the stables and received lessons in grooming and feeding horses. A squad of boys then began to prepare breakfast. This was served about 7 a.m. The other meals were served about noon and 6 p.m. When meals were over the boys, with the exception of the cooks, went off in squads to receive practical instruction in judging and handling high-grade animals. Two or three Hereford bulls would be lined up. One was taken as a type and the points explained carefully. The boys examined the other animals, and compared them with the type. The boys took this work in turn and answered questions orally. The Hereford cows were dealt with similarly The Clydesdale mares, some fourteen in number, supplied
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excellent material for comparative judging. Then lessons were given on the Romney and South Down sheep. But the Hereford bull supplied material for two or three other very strenuous lessons. These animals must be taught to lead, but they do not take too kindly to teaching. A few lessons were given in this work. Although the boys had skinned hands after the first halfhour, and were very tired after an hour of this exciting work, they were quite willing after a "spell to begin again. It was quite amusing to notice how they managed to save themselves when handling these animals the next time. They were neither so tired nor perhaps so scared. Then lessons were given in washing the bulls with soap, water, and a scrubbing-brush. This was not so popular an exercise as riding round the sheep, but it had to be done. Some good lessons were given in planting potatoes and in growing lucerne. Mr. Short organized a cattle-show for the boys, and gave them a lesson on the method of preparing animals for exhibition. Three boys were selected to judge some of the horses. They differed in their judgment somewhat from Mr. Norman Gorton, who was appointed by Mr. Short to judge the horses. That gentleman pointed out that they had allowed sentiment to bias their judgment. The mare the boys selected w 7 as a most beautiful animal with a most sociable disposition. She was on the best terms with the boys from the first day, and perhaps they did not like to put a friend away. The fact remains, however, that the mare was a prize-winner at several subsequent shows—a fact that the boys brought under my notice with painful iteration. You see, I sided with Mr. Gorton against them. After the show Mrs. Short gave the boys a liberal afternoon tea, which was thoroughly relished. The entire work of the camp was carried out by the boys. They paid their railway fare to Feilding. This was subsequently refunded. They paid for their food during the whole camp. In the evenings we had a concert from 8 to 10 p.m. I was astonished at the number of boys who were willing to sing solos. The Feilding public gave a number of prizes, which were distributed at one of the concerts. The prize-winners each made a speech on receiving his prize. The best speakers were our two Maori boys. The camp increased the interest of the boys in farm animals to a very great extent. Many of the boys went to the Palmerston North show for the purpose of seeing the prize animals. One boy went all the way from Wanganui to see Mr. Moore's Herefords and compare them with Mr. Short's. I would like to say a word about the training of teachers in agricultural science. The Department has taken a forward step in demanding a minimum amorrnt of practical work in all the sciences taken for the C and. D certificates. The syllabus of work for the certificates in agriculture are quite satisfactory, and if the practical work is done with care and scientific curiosity good results must follow. But something more is needed. I would suggest that each year the Department select a few training-college students who have satisfactorily completed a course in chemistry, biology, and botany, and send them to Lincoln for a year's practical training. If that were done each year we should soon have scattered over the Dominion a number of capable agricultural teachers, and the primary schools would be centres from which agricultural enthusiasm would radiate. The pupils then coming to secondary classes would be able to do more and better work. 2. To Mr. Pirani.] When I came here at the beginning of 1906 there were twenty-three schoolgardens in the Wanganui District, and now there are 143, and two or three more are waiting to be started. I think these school-gardens are a great help to boys in several ways. Many boys who had never thought of gardening at once formed a garden at home to see if they could race the school-garden. Girls make extremely good gardeners, and are brimful of enthusiasm. In an infants' garden the children not only know the names of plants in the garden, but they noted with great ease the changes that were occurring from day to day, and if any one plot in the garden were touched the pupils could tell next day. Of course, these plots were very small, and four or five children were working on each plot. 3. To Mr. Wells.} The boys from four schools meet on one day of the week at the experimental farm at Marton, and next year we hope to have the boys from six different schools. We have thirty-four on the roll at present. They are the district high school pupils, and, with one exception, all have proficiency certificates. The movement evidently finds support from parents, as the boys attend extremely well. I. think this work is giving young people a bent for country work, for agriculture, and it seems to be giving them a sense of initiative. Boys who formerly came to school with their hands in their pockets and their shoulders up to their ears now walk smartly, and find things to do without my requiring to tell them. I think the work has an excellent effect upon them. The Palmerston Agricultural and Pastoral Association gives £2 to whatever school makes a good exhibition from the school-garden, and the chance of a prize besides. The effect of these show exhibitions is very encouraging : they stimulate other schools to take the matter up. The work of these gardens entails very little labour on the part of the teachers after school-hours. I find that classes for adults were not successful, for unless you can show a farmer some immediate practical result he will not attend. 4. To Mr. Kirk.] I think that the effect of gardening, as well as the discipline of the cadet movement, will serve in the direction of smartening the boys. In the primary schools I think gardening has had the effect of improving pupils in their composition and oral expression. 5. To Mr. Davidson.} The boys from a long distance, such as Taihape, attend very regularly, and are interested in their work. I think the effect of nature-study and elementary agriculture will be to make the boys take a greater interest in what may be termed the civic spirit in the community. It will have the tendency of making them feel that they are really the owners, or part owners, of public reserves and things of that kind. It will also have a strong tendency to raise the dignity of farm-work and manual labour generally. My opinion is that the State is acting wisely in promoting and encouraging this tendency towards agricultural pursuits. 6. To Mr. Hogben.] The prizes given at agricultural shows are for exhibits that show that the pupils have been experimentative. Size and quantity of exhibits do not count, but exhibits showing the educational value of a series of plants.
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7. To Mr. Pirani.] I think notebooks also are sent in and examined, and prizes awarded. The prize-money goes to the Committee generally, with the proviso that the money be spent for the classes in their work. One school collected £19 in prizes in one year, and that money was spent in putting in a large well so that they might have plenty of water for the school-garden. Besides competing in the show work of schools they compete in the open sections. 8. To the Chairman.] I think that agricultural and pastoral pursuits are New Zealand's primary industries, and likely to be so for some years, f think that agricultural students should have as much opportunity for advancing intellectually by having the officers of the Agricultural Department placed at their disposal as the town workers. Robert Allan Stanley Brown examined on oath. (No. 137.) 1. To the Chairman.] I am Supervisor of Rural Work in the Northern District, and was Director of Technical Instruction in the Northern District, Wanganui, for five years and a half. I am classified Dl by the Education Department. 1 have prepared the following statement : Scope of school-garden work : As regards the scope of school-garden work, 1 might cite the case of Manutahi, one of our country schools with a sole teacher. Here was demonstrated the serious loss of plant-food that occurs if lime in anything like large quantities be added to our light Taranaki soils. Lucerne was then grown in the same plots, and quite successfully. This greatly interested the district farmers. Fruit-trees were planted, and, as our soil and climate again require special consideration, the trees arc being grown as dwarf standards, cordons, and espaliers. As a result of this a farmer has now offered an acre of ground as a test orchard, where fruitgrowing may be demonstrated on a commercial scale, and close to the school. Again, in our district, where there is such a huge export of dairy and other produce, pastures are now showing the bad effects of continuous grazing. Therefore top-dressing is now necessary. At the same time farmers have made serious mistakes in adding too much lime, or too expensive and often unsuitable manures. Therefore, near the same school, a farmer has given the use of part of a paddock for demonstration purposes. Manures have been provided by the settlers on my recommendation, and ten to twelve experimental plots have been laid out. Of course, lectures are given as to soil-conditions, uses of manures, and the aim of such experiments. Yet, again, scholars at this school take a great pride in the appearance of their grounds. Unsightly and unsuitable trees have been removed, their place having been taken by hedges. Flower borders have been planted, a lawn laid down, and many minor improvements made. In all of these they had the support of the Committee and district generally. Now, this is not an isolated instance. 1 could mention several other schools where such co-operation is shown. In fact, we can depend on getting increased support, financial and" otherwise, where school-gardens are worked on such lines. Of course, opposition is to be expected at first, but this soon dies down where a start can be made. Being in a dairying district, our future energies are to be devoted to the growing of lucerne and other fodder crops, top-dressing experiments, herd-testing, beekeeping, and fruitgrowing. I should add that herd-testing has been carried out at several schools during recent years. Rural course at district high schools :In the Northern District we have had difficulty in getting in sufficient time for outdoor practical work in this course. Now, however, arrangements are being made for a fortnight's continuous instruction at Hawera, the Patea and Eltham lads being billeted there. The following subjects will form the winter course: (1.) Incubator work; housing and feeding of fowls. (2.) Veterinary science. (3.) Orchard-work—pruning, spraying, grafting. (4.) Manures and top-dressing. (5.) Winter feeding and care of cows; herd-testing. This will be followed in October or November by an early summer course, as follows: (1.) Housing, feeding, and care of chickens. (2.) Wool-sorting and shearing. (3.) Orchard-work —summer treatment of fruit-trees, tomatoes, &c.; "insect foes. (4.) Manuring for and sowing of mangels, carrots, maize, and other fodder crops. (5.) Herd-testing; pasteurization of milk; sterilization of vessels, &c. After the schools resume in February a week will be given to instruction at Hawera in—(1.) Summer treatment of fowls; shade-houses; green feed; culling; vermin, &c. (2.) Identification and examination of clovers and grasses suited to local pastures. (3.) Orchard-work; summer pruning; budding; mulching, &c. (4.) Summer cultivation of fodder crops; dry farming. (5.) Feeding of cows in dry weather to keep up yield of •milk; herd-testing continued; selection of dairy cow. A camp at Moumahaki State Farm will be arranged for March. This should last a fortnight, arid the boys will be instructed in the practical work of the farm. Adult classes in agriculture :It is hopeless to expect adults to take up a course of work, unless, indeed, such course be a very short one taken during the slack winter season. Again, instruction of a general nature rarely appeals to the farmer. He wants knowledge along certain definite lines. This is well shown in the classes that have been run successfully in the Northern District during the past two seasons. These were wool-classing, veterinary science, orchard-work, poultry-farming, and beekeeping. Farmers freely offered donations to start a class in shearing, but, curiously enough, very few students enrolled. On the whole, a different set of students attended each of the subjects mentioned. I should like to draw attention to the classes in beekeeping. These have been held for three seasons in Hawera, and by their means the industry has been placed on a sound footing in the surrounding districts. The South Taranaki Beekeepers' Association joined almost to a man, and students attended from as far afield as Manaia, Kaponga, Eltham, and Stratford. The secret of success was a thoroughly capable instructor. Need for day classes in agriculture: Agriculture is not an isolated subject; it is an education in itself. Judging from our experience in the Northern District, there is no doubt that day classes in agriculture are quite necessary if the various branches of the subject are to be even moderately well mastered by the pupils. Except under special circumstances night classes are out of the question, and in such a wide field, where so much practical work should be undertaken, one or two hours per week is absurd. At primary schools we cannot expect to
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have either much time or much labour expended in this direction. We wish in these to inculcate the spirit of agriculture, and a love for the rural world by showing its beauties and possibilities. Here we also earn the co-operation of the parents, which counts for so much in advanced work. Something-more solid is required intermediate between this and the purely specialized work that appeals to adults. The place for this is a central technical school where day classes in the theory and practice of agriculture could be taken. Such a centre is Hawera. In addition to English, arithmetic, and farm book-keeping, the instruction should consist of agricultural chemistry, agricultural botany, orchard-work, shearing and wool-sorting, veterinary science, poultryfarming, beekeeping, manures and the top-dressing of pastures, farm bacteriology, dairy-work, especially herd-testing, farm, mechanics, and the use of labour-saving machines, woodwork, and metal-work. Such a course would have the whole-souled support of the farming community. The weakness in the present rural course is the small amount of time that can be devoted to truly practical work. The ordinary staff of the district high schools cannot be expected to specialize in agricultural subjects. Their whole previous training follows different lines, and, as a consequence, in many cases they do not fee the possibilities of rural work. Technical— Attitude of public bodies, North Wanganui District : At one time —in fact, only some three or four years ago—technical education generally was by many regarded either as a fad or as a sinful waste of public money. That has now passed. I can safely say that in our larger centres the public are anxious to extend the use of the technical schools, as shown by (a) donations received for buildings, equipment, and upkeep, and (6) by resolutions passed by Committees approving of compulsory technical education. In towns public and private support is always forthcoming for commercial, art, and domestic subjects. The population is not yet large enough to enable classes in plumbing, carpentry, and other manual subjects to continue for any length of time. As regards " special " rural work, we had no great success while we tried classes in such subjects as general agriculture. As soon, however, as we took up various special branches of this subject— e.g., wool-classing, veterinary science, beekeeping, &c. —we met with increasing interest and support. Donations came in freely from such public bodies as County Councils, agricultural and pastoral associations, beekeepers' association, and from private individuals, and we now have the support of practically all sections of the farming community. Good will is at all times assured. School Committees and district farmers are now actively assisting me in agricultural work in connection with the school-gardens. Land and manures are freely supplied for experimental purposes. In this connection the great drawback is the absence of classes in agriculture for youths taking up farm-work. Obstacles to success as regards technical classes : These have to some extent been indicated in remarks. The worst is the recent drop in the rates of capitation. This has been severely felt this year in the smaller centres, where the rate of payment for book-keeping dropped from 4|d. to IJd. per hour, and dressmaking, drawing and painting, &c, dropped from 4§d. to 3d. As a consequence our organization has fallen to pieces. We lost instructors, and our local directors got disheartened with the uphill work of trying to keep the classes together. The additional capitation to-smaller centres did not make good the loss, even where such addition was granted. Since I took charge of the Northern District in 1908 we were always able to make ends meet under the old scale of payments. Especially was this so in country centres. In the towns we had to depend to some extent on donations. Taking 1910, our gain for the year in Hawera was £37 Bs. Id., in Patea £10 9s. 5d., in Eltham £2 4s. Id., and in Waverley £9 os. 7d. With the reduced rate of capitation in 1911 (and its result in the loss of instructors), in Hawera there is a loss of about .£4O, in Patea a loss of £9 165., in Eltham a loss of £4 16s. Id., and in Waverley £6 15s. Taking the capitation earned in the same two years: Hawera —1910, £208 45.; 1911, £145 18s. 3d. Eltham-—l9lO, £28 155.; 1911, £25 10s. 3d. Patea—l9lo, £f2 4s. Id.; 1911, £16 14s. Waverley—l9lo, £27 2s. Bd.; 1911, £18 Bs. 3d. In 1908, 1909, and 1910 we were paying off losses incurred before 1908; 1911 puts us in a very serious position. No doubt there were reasons why the basis of capitation payments for commercial classes should be altered in the larger centres of the Dominion, but those reasons do not apply to towns such as Hawera and Eltham, with a population between fifteen hundred and three thousand. The population is such that out of Hawera we cannot get freeplace students in sufficient numbers to allow us to take advantage of the higher rates of capitation for courses of work. The district high schools and high schools proper absorb practically all the proficiency holders. Again, adults want certain classes, yet cannot attend two or more nights per week for instruction. Hence again we cannot earn course capitation, yet very important work is being done. I should suggest higher rates of capitation in the smaller centres for suitable single subjects, especially branches of agriculture — e.g., beekeeping, veterinary science, and farm book-keeping, &c. An increase to even double the ordinary rate need not mean a large outlay, as in few districts are instructors available. Another obstacle to success is the want of capable instructors. In regard to commercial work, this is mostly due to the poor rate of capitation earned. We meet with the same trouble as regards rural work. In these subjects a poor instructor ruins that confidence in classes which is so important a matter in rural communities. Education Boards might come to some arrangement as regards this matter by using proved men in succession as each district was temporarily worked out. A third difficulty is the want of day technical classes in centres where the population is two thousand and over. As mentioned elsewhere, in my opinion the rural course at district high schools could be better run as day technical classes, when vocational training could be thoroughly carried out. Irregular attendance is getting more noticeable every year. 2. To Mr. Piratii.] So far as nature-study is concerned in the narrower sense, I have been rather disappointed at the incapacity shown by teachers to deal effectively with it. Naturestudy should be used in the general teaching; it is not a subject in itself. Teachers as a rule are afraid of trusting their own observations and the observational powers of the children. So
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far as our school-gardens are concerned, I muse say.there has been good work done, as is evidenced by the interest taken by the children in such work, both at school and at home. The parents 'are taking a keen interest in the work that is being done by the children at the schools. I think the work in connection with school-gardens acts anything but detrimentally to the general education of the children. A great deal can be and is being made of it where a teacher sees what can be got out of the subject, and is willing to be one of the learners. I have acted as judge of book-work for school-garden competitions in this district for some time, and as judge of schoolgardens. The conditions in the northern and southern parts of this district are very different. In the south the soil is heavy; in the north light. In the south they make a much better exhibit in a winter show than we in the north of the district; our crops come to maturity earlier. In the north we are going in more for work dealing with pasture. There we have a permanent pasture, and do not turn up the ground to the same extent that they do in the south. I inspected the Halcombe and Colyton school-gardens in December. The work was remarkably well done so far as the tillage of the ground is concerned. 3. To Mr. Wells.] The parents take an interest in school-gardening. It leads the children to do gardening at home. Taking my district generally, the children and the teachers are trying in every way to improve the appearance of the grounds : this must react on home conditions. 4. To Mr. Hogben.] With regard to work for adults, I think we shall get better attendance on the part of adults when the children who pass through the rural course in our district high schools have left school, and wish to go on further with their work. If I wished just now I could quite easily get classes of those farmers who are interested. I am certain that after we have finished a thorough course with the boys in the rural course we could take courses again during the slack winter season. As to giving the youths of from seventeen to twenty-four or twenty-five a three-months course of about fourteen or fifteen hours a week in the afternoons, our season in the north of this district could not be called a slack one for that length of time. It would be possible if you said six weeks. But there are many difficulties in dealing with youths when they reach a fair age; they want to have a holiday during that slack time. I hope to institute lectures next year at the Hawera winter show. I am sure it would help us if the Department disseminated copies of the pamphlet published in America giving a description of the winter afternoon courses in connection w 7 ith the high schools in Minnesota. 5. To the Chairman.] I think an agricultural course should be made compulsory in district high schools for those pursuing agriculture. For those going on the land I certainly would not take mathematics nor Latin, unless the pupils showed special aptitude for those subjects; then they could take them with another course. We want more and more practical work. I should be pleased to see tuition instituted on the farm as well as in the school: lam certain the farmers would count time on the farm, provided that such time were under supervision. As far as we are concerned, the boys are not required so much during the day as in the morning and at night, and there would not be great difficulty in their attending a school doing practical work and doing the farm work too. As to young people being employed for undue hours in milking and so forth, I have been teaching in the district where they go in for milking more than in any otherplace in New Zealand, and I have not seen any very glaring cases. I have seen more glaringcases in the South Island. The children are healthier in the North, and, speaking generally, are better looked after in backward country districts in Taranaki than they are in the bush districts in Southland where dairying is carried on. People here have more cash, and look after their children rather better. I think country lads should be just as well equipped intellectually as the town boys, and I hold that by taking an agricultural course they can be. I think, taking these particular children, they will have more to think of, more to occupy their minds—which is the all-important matter —with a proper agricultural course than with one, say, more suited to professional students. Oscar Ambrose Banner examiued on oath. (No. 138.) 1. To the Chairman.] I am. Director of Technical Instruction and Supervisor of Agricultural Work for the Southern Wanganui District,'being stationed at Feilding. I arrived in New Zealand ten weeks ago from New South Wales, where my last appointment was Assistant Lecturer in Chemistry and Physics at the Hayvkesbury Agricultural College. My educational status is A 2. I have prepared the following statement: Although a comparative stranger in this country, I have come before you to point out the importance of agriculture and nature-study in the school curriculum. Having already visited about thirty primary schools under this Board, and also having been in constant touch with two district high schools, together with the experience gained in rural education in. New South Wales under the Department of Public Instruction, I have no hesitation in coming to place my impressions and views before you. The agricultural phase (as any other special phase) needs a foundation and a base. This foundation is established through nature-study. This subject should commence in the earliest stages of the child's school life. It is really not commenced there, but has commenced in the child's earlier life at home. Therefore, if for the reason only that nature-study is a continuation of the early experiences and observations of the child, it is certainly doing great work towards dispelling that well-known phrase " the child lives in one world and comes to school in another." The New South Wales authorities, recognizing the value of nature-study teaching in its infant and primary schools, at once included it in their syllabus of instruction. Its maintenance on our syllabus here is essential. No doubt the syllabus is already overburdened, but might I point out that naturestudy is not a new subject demanding a place; it is a point of view asserting itself. It is an attitude towards life, and expresses itself in a way of teaching. By introducing a freer treatment into some of the existing subjects, nature-study should relieve the congestion rather than increase it. If nature-study becomes a burden, it is likely to be because the teacher tries to
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teach too much and makes too hard work of it, or does not properly relate it to the other school-wor-k. Seeing that the teacher should have some idea of the aims and methods of nature-study, and also its relationship to agriculture, and also the fact that the Agricultural College authorities were agitating for nature-study teaching in the primary schools, the New South Wales Department of Public .Instruction arranged with the Department of Agriculture that a summer school for teachers be held during the Christmas vacation at the Hawkesbury Agricultural College. These summer schools were established in January, 1906, There, under the guidance of the Principal, Mr. H. W. Potts, the Vice-Principal, Mr. C. T. Musson (who has spent a lifetime in the successful quest of educational ideals from a nature-study point of view), and staff, the teachers are instructed in nature-study methods and its application to the sciences—agriculture, botany, zoology, chemistry, &c. —which come later on in the educational life. The members of the College staff have taken the matter up assiduously, for they would have been glad, if there had been sufficient nature-study sentiment, to have enabled them to emphasize the purely agricultural phases; but this sentiment has had, in the past, to be created or quickened. It has been my experience, here as elsewhere, that a number of the pupils of our secondary schools are ignorant of the simplest phenomena that occur about them. Nature-study properly taught in the infant and primary stages would practically eliminate this. To give our teachers that necessary insight into the work, Saturday classes are held at our technical schools. Whereas it is impossible for all teachers in a district to attend, on account of distance to be travelled by other than train, it may be considered advisable to give them that opportunity during the Christmas vacation. A summer school under canvas (no Government residential college being available) at some suitable spot would go a fair way towards filling the required need. To carry this out successfully would require an annual grant of money. All agricultural subjects must be taught by the nature-study method, which is to see accurately—to establish a bond of sympathy with the object or phenomenon that is studied. This is the aim that we have in view, and which is being carried out successfully in some of the primary schools I have visited. As a distinct aid to most of our nature-study teaching we have the school-garden. It is in this district, almost without exception, a part of the school equipment. The school-garden has a large range of usefulness. It supplants, or at least supplements, mere book training; presents real problems with many interacting influences, affording a base for the study of nature; develops manual dexterity; begets in the child a regard for labour; trains in accuracy and direction of observation; kindles interest in ownership; teaches art of gardening; works against vandalism; sets ideals for home, thereby establishing a bond of connection between the school and the community. Another important point that was brought under my notice by the teacher of one of our schools was that the school-gardening gave boys backward at bookwork the opportunity to excel, and so had awakened in them a keener desire for general improvement. Farming introduces the human element into nature, and thereby makes it more vivid in the child's mind. A large percentage of our people are on the land, therefore a child should be taught something from the farmer's point of view, and the teaching of gardening is one of the ways in which to begin. Experimental work is carried on in this district, and the older pupils conduct manurial trials, seeding experiments, and at present we are carrying on some variety trials. Interesting data has been obtained, and we expect to obtain some interesting facts regarding hitherto untried fodders in certain localities. It develops a spirit of inquiry, and our failures as well as our successes make interesting study. To add variety and utility to the work we are encouraging the growing of fruit-trees for work in pruning, budding, and grafting. In our secondary schools of the Southern District a large percentage of the boys are taking the rural course. A fair number of these are taking a purely agricultural course. Our aims are as follows : (1) To carry on the general education of boys, with special emphasis on science and the scientific method; (2) to give them a thorough grounding in the theory and, as far as is possible at present, a thorough grounding in the practice of agriculture. Such subjects as the following are dealt with : English, arithmetic and algebra, practical mathematics, geography, and history being dealt with by the High School teachers; chemistry, botany, zoology, with the visiting science master; principles of agriculture, live-stock, farm mechanics, and practical work are taken at Marton every Monday. This course extends over a period of two years. Under existing conditions we are at considerable difficulty with our practical work. Boys have long distances to travel to reach our 5-acre plot at Marton, and then a number of them, can only spend the part of one day, on account of distance to and from their homes, and also the time of departure of the trains. In New South Wales there is a high school purely agricultural. It has an area of about 30 acres (now found to be too small), with aims and objects similar to those to which we are working. This high school contains day students and boarders, the former paying at the rate of £1 Is. per term, and the latter £6 6s. Liberal provision is made, however, in the matter of scholarships and bursaries open to pupils of the public schools, and competed for at annual examinations. A scholarship entitles a holder to free text-books, exemption from payment of fees, and a travelling-allowance of £5 per annum. Board and residence is given to scholarship-holders for .£5 ss. per term. The bursaries, which are given to assist deserving scholars whose parents' incomes are not sufficient to enable their .children to obtain a higher education, are awarded annually, and are tenable for two years. They carry with them free books, exemption from payment of fees, and free board and residence. At the end of the two-years course three additional bursaries have been provided for pupils of this school. These are tenable for two years at the Hawkesbury Agricultural College, and bursars are given text-books free of cost, are exempt from payment of fees, and are granted free board and residence. The course of instruction at the Agricultural High School is as follows : (1.) English section: This includes the following: (a) English language and literature; (b) geography; (c) history; (d) mathematics, including arithmetic, algebra, geometry, and during the second year trigonometry as an aid to elementary surveying. (2.) Science section,
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including the following: (a) Chemistry and physics; (b) geology and meteorology; (c) botany; (d) zoology. (3.) Agricultural section, including the following : (a) Theory and practice of agriculture (including orchard-work, dairying, and live-stock); (b) manual training and farm carpentry; (c) farm blacksmithing; (d) farm plumbing. Working-hours: Monday to Friday — Morning, 9 a.m. to 1 p.m.; afternoon, 2 p.m. to 4 p.m. Saturdays —9 a.m. to 11 a.m. Students when on dairy-work, &c, have special hours. Our syllabus is not far removed from that of New South Wales, except, in the practical work. As 1 have previously stated, a part of one day per week is spent on the farm plots, and, only having 5 acres and between thirty and thirty-five boys to instruct, the quality of work desired is unobtainable. If a central agricultural high school, with students' quarters, and an area of about 75 acres, were established under the Board, one at which resident masters could be located—say, three, a Principal, a field foreman and instructor in agriculture, and an instructor of manual training, with visiting instructors in science, farm smithing, and farm plumbing—the work would be more beneficial, continuous, and of high quality. A number of scholarships and bursaries could be given, and fees charged to other students. For it is recognized that, inasmuch as agriculture is a science, the modern agriculturist must enter his profession fully equipped : he must possess, in addition to intelligence, technical training and scientific knowledge. It is with the object of so training and equipping our youth in the science and art of improved husbandry that such a school should be established. Furthermore, another important point may be considered. In New South Wales the secondary-school pupils have the Hawkesbury Agricultural College in which to complete their studies. The College at Dunedin is too far away to satisfy our needs. At present there is the Ruakura Farm of Instruction. If tire Agricultural Department could be approached to grant a number of scholarships to the Board's second-year secondary pupils, tenable there for two years, it would no doubt fill the want for the time being. The results of this undertaking, if such eventuates, would be worth watching, for the students would go there well equipped with more than an elementary agricultural knowledge, and in their quest for more it would tend to elevate the educational status of that institution, and so we may not lose sight of the best of our boys when their time with us is finished. May Ibe permitted to quote remarks and statistics taken from the last annual report of the Principal of the Hawkesbury Agricultural College, which shows clearly the value and importance of the agricultural work in the high schools and the College in New South Wales? "It is pleasing to note," he says, "the prominent positions secured in the College classes by the students who have undergone preparatory training at the Hurlstone Agricultural High School. Five out of the ten diplomas granted, and the third, fourth, and fifth places in the second-year class, have been won by pupils from this school. It is an indication of the value of the instruction at Hurlstone, and we may justly hope that similar schools will be established near other large centres of population with a view to preparing students for the College." Some statistics from the Old Boys' Union are interesting: Students who have passed through the College, 1,434; students following up training given, 942, or 657 per cent.; 101, or 7 per cent., are known to have left agriculture; while 391, or 273 per cent., are unknown. Of these 301, who comprise many of the earlier students w 7 ho got out of touch before the union was formed, it is safe to assume that at least one-third are in some way connected with agricultural pursuits : thus 75 per cent, of the ex-students of the Hawkesbury Agricultural College are putting their college training into practice. These figures speak for themselves. Agriculture now plays an important part in our technical schools. The leading purposes of this are to supply—first, the knowledge needful to ensure successful occupation of the land for the members of both sexes who are desirous of changing town for country life; and, secondly, to supply technical scientific experience to those engaged in various branches of agriculture, and who have time for lessons only in their spare hours. The subjects as taught are grouped to be as seasonable as possible. The appliances of the Technical School are sufficient for the foregoing, while the cost to students is on a moderate scale. A teachers' class is also held on a Saturday morning, and as opportunity offers the classes go out for field instruction. Classes are also held in carpentry, veterinary science, and wool sorting and classing, and other classes in theoretical and practical chemistry, botany, blacksmithing, &c, could be arranged if sufficient applicants were forthcoming. So then, gentlemen, I have tried to show that primary, secondary. and technical agriculture are good investments for our country. In conclusion, I would like to quote the remarks of Mr. True, of fhe experiment stations in the States. _ He says, "The education which the farmer needs is that which will give him some real appreciation of the progressive and scientific spirit of the age in which he lives; will arouse a keen interest in the facts and principles of science as related to his own vocation; will show him that in agriculture is an ample opportunity for lifelong studies which may refresh and delight the mind as well as minister to material success, and in general will lift agricultural practice out of drudgery into the domain of intelligent and hopeful labour." This is our hope in New Zealand. 2. To Mr. Hogben,] I recognize that there is some difference in the conditions in New South Wales and New Zealand. There is some difference with respect to the system of education. There are no Education Boards there, all being worked under one centralized head. On account of the centralization there are not so many public secondary schools in New South Wales. I think it would be a good thing if the country high schools, such as that at Palmerston, had one course —an optional course —in which the students should take up agriculture in the way I should like to see it taken vp —say, at the secondary stage. Our trouble mainly lies in the practical work. If a suitable area could be attached to the school no doubt we could carry it on. 3. To the Chairman,] I should recommend as a satisfactory area for such schools from 50 to 70 acres.
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(Mrs.) Millioent Woolf examined on oath. (No. 139.) 1. To the Chairman.] I am instructress in cooking, hygiene, and physiology under the Wanganui Education Board. I have been engaged under this Board for about eighteen months. I was brought out to Auckland from England by Mr. George George. In England I taught under .the London School Board. I have had fifteen or sixteen years' teaching experience altogether. My educational qualifications are —first-class cookery diploma; first-class laundry; first-class housewifery (with distinction); physiology and hygiene (elementary and advanced); first aid; chemistry of food. I have—very hurriedly—prepared the following statement : Perhaps, in the days of its infancy, no subject received more ridicule and opposition than the teaching of cookery. 'Ihe idea of any girl requiring to be taught this subject was too absurd. Fortunately, this prejudice has been overcome, and the teacher of domestic economy is now recognized as a necessity. It was my privilege to be one of the pioneers of this work in Auckland, being brought out by the Department for that purpose. The great difficulty that existed then of procuring suitably trained teachers in New Zealand has since to a certain extent been overcome through these pioneers and others passing on their knowledge to the pupils trained by them for the work. But here again much remains to be done. The training should cover a longer period, and New Zealand should set its own examinations, which would be more suitable, dealing as it would with local conditions. Pupil-teachers in this branch should receive at least two years' training, and I would suggest that a course of physiology, hygiene, and chemistry be taken before they are allowed to start teaching. No one anxious to give of her best should be content with just the mere acquiring of a City and Guilds certificate. Teachers in primary schools might have the option of taking cookery as one of their subjects. Cooking as a training for the eye, ear, and hand is simply invaluable. The syllabus as used by the teachers under this Board is preeminently a practical one, and embraces the primary methods of cooking, three or four lessons being given to illustrate each principle. This should be divided into sections : For example, bakery, Section A; stewing, Section B; and so on; each lesson forming one link in the chain. Naturally a teacher must use her own judgment as regards the order in which these sections are given. Lettuce salad in winter would appeal as little to the popular taste as a suet pudding would in summer. The syllabus must and can be arranged to suit the neighbourhood. For example, in a sheep-farming district, if mutton is plentiful, cook it in as many different ways as possible. Much could be done as regards quantities of material used. It is not practical to allow one or, as is usually the case, two girls to make between them one or two small cakes (2 oz. of flour least possible quantity allowed). Economy of time is too often overlooked, as well as economy of labour. Although the kitchen is and should be perfectly clean, it is certainly wrong to have brass taps cleaned, say, three times a day. Roughly speaking, half an hour is sufficient to allow for cleaning up. This prevents dawdling. Demonstrations are invaluable if well carried out. Good practical work is the outcome of a good demonstration. Should a practice lesson be a failure it must be taken again. The mixing of Standards V, VI, and sometimes Standard VII is a grave mistake. Standard VI and Standard VII should have work considerably in advance of Standard V, and there lies the difficulty. Has the teacher to study the needs of the older or younger members of her class? The numbers, too, in some of the classes are a serious drawback. Can one teacher even with the aid of an assistant successfully cope with from twenty-four to twenty-eight girls at a practice lesson ? The classes following so closely one upon the other necessitates one class getting boards and tables ready for the next. One hour and a half is far too short a time. We teach that a stew should cook for at least two hours, and then proceed to rush it through in about one hour, when preparation, marking of registers, has to be taken into account. By far the best work is done by the High School girls, whom we are fortunate to have for three consecutive hours. One hour of this is given up to hygiene or physiology. It is to me the red-letter day of the week. The smallness of the numbers and the time, combined with the interest taken in the work by the girls, tends to make it almost ideal. The planning and cooking of dinners, shopping, and paying of accounts all form an essential part of their training. They are allowed and encouraged to cook a meal for any visitors who honour us with their presence; and the class itself is at liberty to stay and eat the food that they have cooked. It is my proud boast that all my High School girls can cook meals tempting enough to suit even the taste of the sterner sex. The girl who can cook the dinner when occasion demands does more to advertise the usefulness of the work than anything else. So far I have only dealt with one side of our work. It must not be forgotten that in order to make our girls thoroughly intelligent we must teach them in a practical manner physiology, hygiene, and the simple elements of chemistry. Our syllabus embraces the following : Physiology—Organs, agents, processes and products of digestion—teeth, stomach, liver, kidneys, intestines, saliva, gastric juice, pancreatic juice, bile, lymph, blood. Hygiene —Skin, personal cleanliness, cleanliness in house, water-supply, clothing, drainage, ventilation, infectious diseases, vaccination, washing (materials, appliances, and methods). Care of infants —Food, clothing, disorders, with appropriate treatment. For physiology it is absolutely necessary to show all possible internal organs, such as by dissecting a rabbit. The girls find it a difficult subject to remember, chiefly on account of the names. By means of this subject we indicate the position of the internal organs, and emphasize the folly of wearing tight clothing as tending to injure these organs. In the same way the good and ill effects of exercise on the heart and lungs can be illustrated. By teaching the necessity for proper ventilation and the hygiene of the house we, I trust, in some small degree are the means of preventing the spread of disease, notably consumption. The care of infants should and does form an essential part of the syllabus taken by Standard VI and Standard VII. With the cry that is so frequently heard of the increase in infant mortality, it is hardly necessary to emphasize the importance of this knowledge. The teaching of first aid, home nursing, and laundry-work is also being taken. The chemistry—Effect of heat upon water, air, &c, is being ably taken by Mr. Martin. I trust
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the time is not far distant when housewifery will also be taught. This would, of course, mean the obtaining of a cottage suitable for an artisan family, furnishing it in a suitable manner, and having, say, six girls to live there. Teachers intending to train for the work could board there for a nominal sum. I note with regret that in most places evening cookery classes are but poorly attended, possibly due to the fact that nearly all girls prefer shops and offices to domestic work, and so take the subjects best suited to their work. It is infra dig. to go out to service. And yet the girl who has acquired her experience as regards housework and cooking at the expense of any one rather than her husband is starting upon a far more satisfactory basis than the one who knows nothing. I desire to say, in conclusion, that the greatest need at present in our work (cookery) is the appointment of a capable woman to act as Superintendent. The work has so grown during the last few years that this is really a necessity. Under the London School Board ten years ago there were five of these Superintendents. This is not instead of, but in addition to, the present Inspector (Mr. Isaac). During the past few months two teachers have asked me for help as regards (1) drawing up a syllabus, (2) how to arrange a practice lesson, (3) the amount of theory that it was possible to give, (4) advice as regards text-books. Such a Superintendent should travel all over New Zealand, giving where necessary model lessons, drawing up a syllabus if required, setting New 7 Zealand examinations for New Zealand teachers, mapping out a course of study and suggesting suitable books, and demonstrating or lecturing to the teachers. This help is most-earnestly desired, and the Department would receive the grateful thanks of the teachers and would itself reap an enormous benefit by having its teachers brought fully up to those of older countries. I have here one of the London School Board books, so that you may see the style of work there [produced]. 2. To Mr. Davidson.} I approve most decidedly of the teaching of cookery to girls in the primary schools; the sooner they learn-it the better it is for them. If compulsory continuation classes were established in New Zealand I would not delay the introduction of this subject until the girls had passed out of the primary school. I think it better to start it as we do now —at Standard V. In my opinion Standard IV girls are too young for cookery. The time allowed for cookery is not sufficient when it comes to cooking meat. 3. To Mr. Kirk.] I have taken boys in cookery at the High School; for the short time I took them it was very satisfactory. I do not think it would do them any harm if the boys went in for a course of cookery. 4. To Mr. Wells.] To allow two hours for cookery would be a big advantage in the cooking of meat. The course is very popular with girls. The parents take a keen interest in it. The primary-school teachers who come to Feilding for instruction are quite close at hand; they do not come a long distance. 5. To Mr. Pirani.} As to the teaching of the children, on Friday morning the class is quite a small one —say, eight girls. Two of these would look after the meat and the vegetables; two would cook the pudding; two others would cook scones and cakes; and there might be a second pudding. All the eight would help. And they would take a different course each lesson. 6. To the Demonstration is followed by a practice lesson. I teach at Palmerston, Taihape, and Feilding. 7. To Mr. Hogben.] Ido not know the American schools. I should say that the Toronto and New York plan of beginning instruction in cookery methods at the age of six or seven is absurd. We teach the principles that underlie cookery as well as the preparation of dishes. We include in the course experiments in simple chemical and physical facts connected with cookery, such as coagulation in the case of the egg and fibre in the meat. We teach the girls they must give meat great heat for the first ten minutes to keep in the albumen. We take all the simple experiments. I have taught housewifery in London in one of the small houses. The disadvantage there is that no one occupies the house. It is not practical, I consider, for girls to wash perfectly clean things and make a bed that has never been used. I think a hostel where people actually live is decidedly preferable. If there were a hostel Ido not think a course in housewifery need be very expensive. I should say that girls coming from a distance to 'attend such a school, or teachers wanting to take up the work, could be boarded at a reasonable rate. I should imagine it could be almost self-supporting. 8. To the Chairman.] Even if such a hostel were not self-supporting it would be better to accommodate children under the eyes of'the teachers and wffiere the practical part of housewifery could be carried on. I think instruction in the use of the sewing-machine should be given to girls in the primary-school course. Frederick Arthur Bates examined on oath. (No. 1.40.) 1. To the Chairman.] I am first special assistant in the Feilding District High School. 1 have been engaged there for about two years and a half. Prior to that I was employed for three years at the Hawera District High School as a primary assistant. Before that I was sole teacher in a country school of from forty to fifty children. My educational status is 82, and I am a B.A. of the New Zealand University. I have prepared the following statement :On behalf of the secondary assistants in the district high schools of this district I wish to place before you the disabilities under which w 7 e at present labour. (1.) We are expected to possess higher qualifications than teachers in primary schools. This entails a longer, more expensive, and more exacting period of training. (2.) We must be able to teach several subjects not required of primary teachers —Latin, algebra, geometry, book-keeping; and, in addition, to continue to a much higher standard those subjects which are taken by primary assistants —English, arithmetic, geography, drawing, agriculture, &c. (3.) The whole responsibility of preparing pupils for the Matriculation, Civil Service, and other examinations rests upon us. (4.) The difficulty of the
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work is increased by the number of classes. There are two courses, examination and rural, with two, three, or even four classes in each. To carry out this work there are only one or, at most, two permanent teachers. It is true we are assisted by the visiting instructors, but they come only for one day or for part of a Any each week, and frequently take only part of a class at a time. (.").) in some schools the special assistant is practically in sole charge of his department, and is "responsible for schemes of work, correlation, and co-ordination of the work of the visiting instructors, the discipline and examination of his pupils, and the making-out of the numerous returns required by the authorities. (6.) The advanced character of the work requires more time for preparation and for correction than is the case in primary work. (7.) In the Wanganui District we are required to spend five hours per week more in actual school-work than are primary teachers. (8.) In addition to literary qualifications, it is necessary that our disciplinary powers should be of a high order. (9.) In spite of the above facts we are actually receiving lower salaries than are assistants in the larger primary schools, or than teachers of all but the lowest grades of country schools. (10.) The following is a comparison of the salaries of primary and secondary assistants:—Primary: Grade 8 (301-450) —First assistant £210-£240, second assistant £150--£180; Grade 9 (over 450) —First assistant £240-£270, second assistant £180-£2lO. Secondary : First assistant £180-£2lO, second assistant £135-£165. (11.) In the secondary departments of schools in New South Wales first assistants receive from £300 to £400, and second assistants from £250 to £300. They are usually required to teach only one or' two subjects to classes of an average of about thirty pupils per teacher. The work is practically of the same standard as it is here. (12.) In secondary schools it is thought necessary for both pupils and teachers to have holidays for at least twelve weeks in the year. We who are doing the same work receive eight weeks. As a result of the unsatisfactory conditions under which we are asked to work, there are frequent changes in the teaching staff of secondary departments. In this district only two or three of the assistants have been more than two years in their present positions. Such frequent changes are detrimental in the highest degree to the work of the pupils in those departments. Personally, I am of the opinion that district high schools should be disestablished, and the secondary departments combined with technical and evening classes to form separate institutions. 2. To Mr. Wells.] In am in charge of the secondary department of a Grade 8 school, hi that department we have fifty-six pupils on the roll; last year there were eighty. My salary is fi'om £180 to £210. The secondary department is in a different building from the rest of the school. The first assistant of the primary department receives from £210 to £240. In the absence of the headmaster the first primary assistant would take charge of the school. Perhaps this is a reason why he receives a higher salarj' than I do, but a first secondary assistant is just as capable —and even more capable, I think, in most cases —of taking charge as the first assistant in a primary department. The first teacher in a district high school should receive at least £250 to £300, and the second £180 to £210. I would not pay £250 to a man with twelve pupils. £210 to £240 would be quite low enough for a sole teacher. If this salary were paid to a teacher with twelve pupils it would, I know, be expensive. The only way of getting over this difficulty would be to centralize as much as possible by carrying the children or giving them lodgingallowances, so that they could attend a more central school. If this were done district high schools should not be established for fewer than, say, twenty pupils. 3. To Mr. P Irani.] If carriage allowance were given the Marton District High School should serve Bull's. In this instance three district high schools might be combined —Hunterville, Bull's, and Marton. 4. To Mr. Wells.] Patea, Eltham, and Hawera District High Schools might be combined. Owing to the poor salaries it is most difficult to secure trained teachers for district high schools. Wherever possible district high schools should be combined with technical schools. 5. To Mr. Davidson.] As to reducing or simplifying the returns required in connection with the district high schools, I think the special registers are quite unnecessary. Could not all the returns be taken from the daily attendance register, instead of keeping separate registers for each special subject? Ido not know if in other districts district high school teachers are obliged to teach five hours a week longer than,.the teachers in primary schools, as is the case here. The reason is that the pupils, being of more mature age, are supposed to be able to work a little longer per day than younger pupils, and wall thus be prepared for a longer day's work when they enter on their life's work. I could not say ■ what hours per day they work in the other secondary schools. My reason principally for advocating the disestablishment of the district high schools is that the work is of quite a different nature, and requires for its supervision entirely different qualifications. The headmaster of a primary school is not necessarily qualified to supervise the work of a secondary department. Then, again, if the secondary department were made a separate institution there would be better positions for secondary teachers. I would have no district high schools except in those places, where it was possible to have a technical school and district high school combined, if provision were made for the carrying of children. 6. To Mr. Hogben.] I would have the children carried every day, or make them a lodgingallowance. I suppose it would be too much to ask for 10s. a week in the way of lodging-allowance. In Feilding children are boarded in private houses for 10s. a week. Such an allowance would mean £20 a year. If board cost £1 per week it would be £40 a year. I admit that even at the lower figure this would be much more expensive than running district high schools, but you would get better work done. It might be possible to proceed with disestablishment by degrees, taking the larger schools first and gradually working down to the smaller ones. I suggest a minimum salary of £210 for the teacher of from twelve to twenty pupils at a district high school.
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David Walker Low examined on oath. (No. 141.) «" 1. To the Chairman.] lam one of the representatives of the Wanganui Branch of the Educational Institute of New Zealand. 1 am headmaster of the College Street School. I have been so employed for eight years. My educational rank is CI. On behalf of the Institute I should like to make the following suggestions : In order to allow more time for practical work in arithmetic the present course of instruction in this subject should be shortened and rearranged, somewhat as follows : Standard VI —Higher commercial arithmetic — e.g., compound interest, partnerships, and perhaps discount —might be left for high schools and technical schools; troy weight should be omitted; mensuration of solids should be confined to the cube, the square prism, and the cylinder. Standard V —ln this class a real beginning is made with the study of vulgar fractions, and for this considerable time is required. Cubic measure and decimal fractions should be held over for Standard VI, also problems in mensuration, except those of the very simplest nature. Standard III —Simple problems in avoirdupois weight and in long measure should be introduced into the course for this class, as a preparation for the work of Standard IV. Although the composition of numbers up to 1,000,000 might be studied, much better work would be accomplished if numbers used in sums were restricted to less than 10,000. Indeed, in all classes small numbers should be used, thus keeping the work well within the capacity of the children, and allowing more time for mental work and study of principles. Standard II — Money sums, except perhaps addition, should be omitted until Standard 111. This district Institute is of opinion that the course of instruction in drawing is excessive, especially in the requirements for geometrical drawing. In illustration the requirements for Standard V may be mentioned, where, in addition to the construction of triangles and quadrilaterals, pupils are required to construct, by a general method and also by special methods, the pentagon, hexagon, octagon, on a given line, and also within a given circle. Ihey are also required to enlarge and reduce figures, to find the centre of a circle, and several other problems in plane geometry, besides scale drawing, and plans and elevations of simple solids. Geometry should be used in connection with the manual work of a school — e.g., woodwork or cardboard-modelling —and no geometry should be required from a class other than that necessary for the construction of the working drawings. Where an attempt is made to carry out the work of the present programme much valuable time is taken up in teaching problems that are never of any use in school-work, and that are rapidly forgotten by the pupils. The time thus w 7 asted could be very profitably spent in giving a more thorough training in freehand, and in laying a firm foundation in scale drawing and in simple solid geometry. In order to secure greater efficiency in our country schools and economy in administration, the pupils in all schools of Grades 0, 1, 2, and 3 should, where possible, be conveyed to a school of a higher grade. The following may be mentioned as among the advantages of this system: Economy in cost, equipment, and maintenance of buildings; better teachers could be obtained, and they would be more settled, in their positions; children would be enabled to attend more regularly and more punctually; regular supervision on the way to and from school; emulation with a larger number of children in the schoolroom; increased interest in and value of school games. We would recommend that the number of term examinations required by regulation be reduced from three to two in each year. We believe that too much stress is still placed upon examinations. The adoption of this recommendation would reduce the amount of clerical work required, and would also minimize the unsettling effect upon young children of frequent examinations. Teachers would, of course, test the progress of their pupils at frequent intervals, but this need not be done by means of formal examinations. Special capitation for handwork in schools should be discontinued. Under the present system there may be a temptation to select subjects that pay a higher rate of capitation, irrespective of their suitability to the school. It is possible also that through selecting more than the necessary number of manual subjects for the purpose of earning grants serious inroads may be made upon the time available for other subjects of instruction. It is suggested that the penalty of a 1.0-per-cent. reduction in salary of teachers who arc unable to obtain health certificates, but are otherwise qualified, should be removed. On my own behalf f should like to state that I believe the requirements in mathematical geography for Standard VI are excessive, and that in the interest of the study of English more attention should be given to formal grammar. 2. To Mr. Wells.] I had not specially thought of any alteration in the syllabus for the Junior Scholarships and free places with regard to drawing, but from what I can recollect of the syllabus I think it requires simplifying very considerably. I think the education districts might with considerable advantage be much larger than they are now. Perhaps six districts would be enough —three in each Island. I do not think the grading scheme here is quite a satisfactory mode of promotion, but it is an improvement on the old system. I think canvassing still goes on. In my opinion there would not be canvassing if the grading scheme were always adhered to. I do not think it is always adhered to. Ido not know from my own knowledge of its being departed from. I should rather like the free-book system if the materials supplied were more in the direction of continuous readers. The miscellaneous reader should he bought by the child. I think the use of the supplementary readers has improved the reading in the schools. 3. To Mr. Kirk.] When I say that more attention should be paid to forma] grammar I refer to parts of speech and rules of syntax. A few more rules of syntax should certainly be taught in a more formal manner than at present, so that children when correcting errors in English might be able to give the reason. I have been teaching for about thirty years. In the course of this time I frequently heard complaints about the great care that was paid to formal grammar. I think the pendulum has swung too much the other way. I have been led to believe that the grading scheme has not been the greatest success. I would favour a somewhat similar scheme for the whole Dominion. Working over a larger area it might have a better chance of being successful than in a limited area. In a wider area 1 think it could be worked in a better way. Ido not
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think it is altogether the fault of the scheme that it has not been a success. The fault, in my opinion, is in the administration —I mean that the scheme is not always adhered to by the Education Board. If the Board in making an appointment depart from the grading scheme our remedy is an appeal to the Board. I believe there have been one or two appeals. 1 would suggest that a'grading scheme for the Dominion be drawn up, that this scheme should be compulsory on all Education Boards, and that each teacher should be supplied with a list of all the teachers—not only with his own marks. The teachers would have to be graded by a Board of experts —I would suggest by representatives from the fnspectors and the teachers. The basis of any successful grading scheme must be a knowledge of the person that is being graded. This knowledge would be obtained by the Board that I suggest. 4. Where are you going to get the common denominator? How do you know that the Inspector in Auckland is going to give marks in the same way —is going to detect the personality of the man as quickly —as your own Inspector?—l am afraid that could not be done under present conditions. 5. How is a Dominion scheme going to be a greater success than what you have at the present time? —All local questions and considerations would be entirely left out of a Dominion scheme. 6. Are not Inspectors human just as other beings are? Would not the Inspector, say, for the Wanganui District, when the grading of the Wanganui teachers came up, be the man whose opinion would be taken by the other six or seven Inspectors there? Would it not simply amount to this : that your own Wanganui Inspector would grade him just the same as at present, and the others would acquiesce? —The special advantage of a Dominion scheme w-ould be that all the teachers in the Dominion would be graded on the same basis. At present they might be graded on twelve or thirteen different bases, 7. Would it not mean that your last state would be worse than the first? —I do not see that. As to the number of education districts, when I ventured the opinion that there should be three in each Island I did so on the spur of the moment : I had not considered the matter. I certainly think the number at present existing should be reduced, because there would be less expense. There would be a saving, I take it, in buildings and clerical work and with respect to staff. 8. To Mr. Davidson.] I do not know that there is a system of classifying teachers in operation in Victoria. In such schemes as the Auckland and Wanganui ones each teacher within the district should know exactly his relative position in the class. At present the teachers in such districts as Westland and Grey have not fair opportunities for promotion. I think, therefore, that in the interests of education some reform in the method of appointing and promoting teachers is urgently required. It would be in the interests not only of the teachers but of the children if these small districts were included with one of the larger districts. If a Dominion scheme w 7 ere in operation every teacher in New Zealand should know exactly his position and his chances of promotion. I certainly think it would remove any suspicion of unfairness in the ■administration of the scheme if in this district the complete grading-lists were in the hands of every teacher. We can now teach as much formal grammar as we like, but there should not be an opportunity given for its almost total neglect. I would make it compulsory to include a certain amount of formal grammar. With respect to capitation for handwork, I think a lump sum might be paid to the Education Boards for the purchase of the necessary material. I think that by means of the Department's Inspectors a sufficient safeguard would be had for the correct spending of this money. I favour the placing of the Inspectors under the Central Department. In this way there would be a greater check on the expenditure of the money. I think such subjects as brush drawing and paper-folding and this form, of manual work should form part of the ordinary school-work. 1 think we might have special grants for woodwork, and cookery. As to term examinations, I would not bind a teacher down to having only two. I mean that the tabulated statement required should be written up only twice a year. It is the clerical work I object to. As a matter of fact, most teachers conduct more than three examinations now. There are schools in,this district that could be consolidated, I know, but I could not give you details offhand. With regard to geometrical drawing, it is the case in this district that where boys take woodwork geometrical drawing is correlated with that work, and no other geometrical drawing is required. So long as an Inspector will take the drawing that is actually correlated with the woodwork, instead of the geometrical drawing as laid down in the syllabus, I have no objection. 9. To Mr. Hogben.] By " formal grammar " I mean recognition of the parts, analysis of sentences, and simple parsing of the verb and perhaps of the noun. 1 notice in the syllabus for Standard IV, " Recognition of nouns, pronouns, adjectives, and adverbs by their functions in easy sentences." This is often understood by teachers to mean that they can recognize a pronoun but not know it by its name. For Standard VI the syllabus deals chiefly with clauses and their functions. It does not imply that the pupils should not know the names by that time, but it might imply that they need not know the names. I would take the names of the common clauses that are used instead of the parts of speech. As to the age at which I would begin to teach this formal grammar, I think children of nine or ten might be able to recognize a noun and put the name to it. If in New York they said they would not dream of teaching it to any child under twelve or thirteen I would think they were wrong. Bain uses the word "noun " in some of his books : I did not know he omitted it in others. 10. To the Chairman.] I approve of the setting up of a Council of Education. Florance Antony Tyrer examined on oath. (No. 142.) 1. To the Chairman.] I am headmaster of the school at Stratford. I have been employed in that capacity for twenty-three years. Previously to that I taught in the New Plymouth Central School and in the Waitara School. Prior to that I was thirteen years in Victoria. My educational qualification is Dl in New Zealand; in Victoria, certificate of competency. I have first to lay before you a number of recommendations from the Taranaki Branch of the Educa-
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tional Institute. There are some of these, 1 may say, that 1 personally do not agree with. These recommendations are —(1) That probationers should be appointed for three years, and their salaries should be considerably increased : (2) that Education Boards be allowed to appoint male assistants to Grade 4 schools : (3) that a Dominion scale of salaries for Inspectors be instituted : (4) that the number of Education Boards be reduced to four for the Dominion : (5) that there is urgent need for a Dominion scheme for the classification and promotion of teachers : (6) that there should be more continuity between primary, secondary, and university education, and that there should be a. definite syllabus for secondary schools: (7) that all lessons at technical schools (woodwork and cookery) be postponed till the pupils have passed Standard VI; (8) that instead 'of the present grant for free books there be substituted a grant for writing and drawing materials and for school stationery : (9) that no deduction be made from the salaries of teachers under twenty-one years of age who have gained teachers' certificates, provided they have done the necessary training : (10) that the syllabus be made more definite with respect to English, and that the arithmetic be more evenly distributed throughout the standards: (11) that owing to the more exacting nature of teachers' work as compared with that of other branches of the Public Service the salaries at present paid are inadequate; in consequence of this and the uncertainty of promotion the profession is not sufficiently attractive: (12) that where there is a group of small country schools connected by passable roads, several of these should be closed and the scholars conveyed to one central school. In reference to the proposal that a Dominion scale of salaries for Inspectors be instituted, I was asked to express the opinion of the Institute that by so doing you would probably ultimately gain abler men to conduct and supervise the education in each of these districts, and in their opinion the stronger and abler the men are that are chosen for Inspectors the better it will be for education throughout the district. In reference to No. 9—that no deduction should be made from a teacher's salary who has qualified for a certificate under the age of twenty-one—one or two cases of this kind have occurred in our district where teachers have qualified through exceptional ability and have put in their service at teaching, and it seems an injustice that they should have to suffer a reduction of 10 per cent, in their salaries. In reference to small country schools, there are places in Taranaki where a number —even five or six schools —surround centres and are within a radius of, at the outside, five miles. I speak of Inglewood and Midhirst. The roads now are quite good, and the children could in those cases very easily be brought in and made to attend one central school. It would necessitate the closing-up of some of the smaller schools; but it could be done there if it were considered better to teach the children in one large school. With reference to the district high schools, the staffing of the secondary departments of district hiffh schools should be strengthened, and salaries of secondary assistants considerably increased. First-year students in these departments are generally those who have just gained proficiency certificates, after having been a year in Standard VT. This standard in the primary school is always taken by the strongest and most mature teacher available. It is naturally considered the most important standard, and is the most difficult to control in the primary school. First-year secondary students should never be placed in the hands of teachers with little or no experience, however high, the scholastic attainments of such teacher may be. Practical teaching experience is also necessary. Adequate salaries should be provided, so that competent and able teachers could be secured. A science training is of great value to teachers in district high schools; at the present time, in this Dominion, it is difficult to get a female teacher able to properly handle even one science subject. That, to a certain extent, might be the fault of the work taken in the training colleges. It seems to me that certain subjects should be compulsory in the training colleges, and that teachers who go to them should be compelled to take up at least one science subject to qualify them better for undertaking teaching in their own districts. A course of rural instruction is now provided at most schools outside those of the chief centres. So far the work is limited to a two-years course. This should be extended. Education Boards should provide scholarships open for competition among students who have been for two years in regular attendance at rural classes. The standard of examination should be similar to that of the Civil Service Junior Examination. Agriculture, dairying, &c, should be compulsory subjects. These scholarships should be tenable for two years. Then, Senior Scholarships in Agriculture should be established by the Education Department. These should be of similar value to Senior National Scholarships, and should be awarded on an examination equal in difficulty to that of the Junior University Scholarship. Subjects such as agriculture and dairy science should take the places of Latin, French, Ac. The examination for Senior Civil Service would do as a standard. Successful candidates should, for two years, attend University classes while in session, and spend the remainder of the year in practical work at such a place as Lincoln College, and at the end of that time should pass an examination —B.Sc. standard—in mathematics, chemistry, botany, and biology or physics. The third year should be spent entirely at Lincoln College (or similar institution), and at the end of the term deserving students should be awarded by the Education Department a diploma of proficiency in agriculture. Men trained on such a system as suggested are greatly wanted in New Zealand. Primary schools : Two departmental Inspectors should be appointed, one for each Island, to work in connection with primary schools. These should travel through the various districts, visit schools of various sizes in each, confer and work with district Inspectors, and report to the Education Department, copies of all reports being sent to local Boards. Scholarships : Competitive examinations should be maintained and scholarships awarded. For primary schools the Junior National Scholarship is a good one. From its results can be obtained, in a general way, a comparison of the standard of proficiency of education in the different districts. There is not much truth in statements made that children are " crammed " or specially prepared for these examinations. Pupil-teachers: Pupil-teachers will be wanted in New Zealand for a number of years. The standard of qualification for appointment as a pupil-teacher, however,
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should now be raised, and no candidate who has not passed an examination for at least a senior free place should be eligible. The period of the pupil-teacher course should be four years. Pupil-teachers should be appointed in schools of Grade 5 or higher, and should receive higher salaries than at present. A pupil-teacher of the fourth year might be transferred to a smaller .school. It lias always struck me in my experience that there has been a want of connection between the Department and the Education Boards—that the Department is responsible for the regulations under which we work, and that it lias no opportunity, or does not exert itself to find one, of seeing at first sight how these regulations are carried out. It depends entirely upon the officers of the Education Board. In reference to promotion schemes in smaller districts, Ido not think they can work satisfactorily in the interests of the children, because when a vacancy occurs it is not a question of who is rhe best teacher we can get for the school that is vacant, but who is the best that we have in our service for that position. It is all right for the teachers in these little districts, but I do not think it is all right for the children. As far as salaries are concerned, 1 am firmly of opinion that the salaries of the Inspectors should be considerably raised. I think, our service ought to be paid fairly, and somewhat in comparison with the other professions. Naturally, when you get a Chief Inspector you expect a man who has come absolutely to the front. Think of the work a Chief Inspector does in such a district as this, and then his salary with that of a man of the same —perhaps not the same—ability who has devoted his time to law, or medicine, or any of the other professions, and you find that there is practically no comparison between the salaries received. I am very strongly of opinion that the salaries of fnspectors should be raised considerably, and probably by that means in the course of a few years you would get in the service men to whom we could all look up and to whom we could all go for advice, and not have, as I understand is the case in New Zealand now, probably abler teachers than Inspectors. One resolution from my Teachers' Institute referred to postponing woodwork and cookery until after the children had left the primary schools. I think the reason for it is this : now most of the boys and girls who pass through Standards V and VI have the opportunity of attending a district high school or a technical school —I should say that from 75 per cent, to 80 per cent, do—and the teachers think these children could still get the trainingafter they had left the primary school. T do not agree with it, for this reason : when boys and girls come into the high school they should go on with more advanced woodwork and more advanced cookery. As far as w 7 oodv 7 ork is concerned in our district there is no difficulty. The children can go on with carpentry, and I think they can take on metal-work as well, and the previous two years in woodwork has been almost essential to their subsequent work. It would be almost as good in cookery, provided you could get an instructress with the necessary ability. There is one more subject I should like to refer to —instruction in sex physiology. It is a subject to which I have given a, good deal of thought. I think it is debatable whether instruction in this subject should he given in schools or not; but I have not any hesitation whatever in this opinion, that it should be given by a thoroughly qualified man, and by a medical man for preference. I have been present at lectures given by an itinerant lecturer, and my own opinion is that not good, but barm, was done. That is my deliberate opinion. I think at the present day there should be no difficulty in the matter, as it is really the question of self-abuse that is referred to. Most of the boys now —in fact, all of them —at an early age join the Territorial service and are examined by the medical men. They are stripped naked for examination. A medical man can tell, then if a boy wants advice or treatment. He can get that boy afterwards brought into his office by himself, and can give him advice and instruction that will be of great benefit to him. 2. To Mr. Wells.] I meant to add to my notes that pupil-teachers who have matriculated should serve one year less than the four years f advocated. I did not assume that these pupilteachers after that service would go to the Training College. It would be desirable if they could do so. The age of a pupil-teacher who lias matriculated would be about seventeen on entering the service. Generally speaking, probably two years would be enough for such a pupilteacher, with the compulsory two years' training at the Training College; but from my district, of which I was principally speaking, very few go to the Training College at all. In my opinion, with teachers who are going through the training-college course, two years is sufficient if they have matriculated. As to amalgamation of education districts, I think the districts should be levelled up to be about equal in size. I think the Education Boards have done noble service. As to whether I. approve of a Dominion grading scheme, I should be guided a great deal by how the marks were to be awarded and the scheme drawn up. I think it would be very difficult to get a satisfactory grading scheme with the present thirteen districts. As long as the Chief inspector from a district gives evidence at the Council of Education or central body, assuming there are six or eight or four districts, as the case may be, I think a scheme would he perfectly fair and just. If there are four or six districts there is more likely to be a fairly common standard of efficiency in each district, especially if an itinerant Inspector is appointed and goes through them. The chiefs could naturally meet more frequently and compare their work. Tf there were four equal education districts there would be a common denominator; there would also be a strong inspectorial staff in each district, and each of the teachers would probably be known to at least two of the Inspectors. Tf the Inspectorial Board met in each district there should be no great difficulty in grading the teachers of each district in their own particular district. Working on these lines I think a satisfactory grading scheme for the Dominion could be evolved. A grading scheme has been in operation in the Taranaki District for some two or three years, and it is this that led me to express the opinion that a grading scheme could not work satisfactorily in. a small district without sacrificing the interests of the children in many cases. In a large school that T know 7of a, teacher was appointed as an assistant, at a salary of £120, without having any qualifications whatever. This would be owing to the scarcity of
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teachers. Well, if an advertisement were put in the paper, a number of teachers would apply from other parts of the Dominion. Most responsible teachers in Taranaki would prefer to go back to the old or some other system. I do not think there was much canvassing for positions under the old system. I think the Board always sent two or three names to the Committee. L. do not remember being canvassed in the interests of any one who applied for a position at my own school. I have never heard of a Committeeman being canvassed. I should say that at a, district high school no salary should be less than £200 a year at least, and that the salary of the chief assistant in the secondary department should always be at least equal to that of the chief assistant in the primary department. None of the schools in my district could be amalgamated. 3. To Mr. Kirk] My district is a dairying district. There is now no evidence of that industry having a detrimental effect upon the children. In the early days I knew of a number of families that, in my opinion, were overworked; but the conditions of life have gradually improved, and now I can honestly say that I do not know of one case where the children are, t y mind, overworked. At my school we have a school library. The senior pupils are as fond of reading as any children I have been brought in contact with. The School Journal is always read. I think it is of material value. The children always ask for permission to take it home. The school buildings in my district are all of wood, except the brick school at Stratford. I think most are in a fair state of preservation. All those built in the last nine or ten years have been put up very solidly. The Committees are attending to their work. Almost every Committee, I should say, spends double the money it receives in capitation, especially at the smaller schools. In all the schools I myself have come in contact with the ventilation has been good. The heating arrangements I should say are satisfactory. Changing from one subject to another is almost a little rest for the children. I have never felt there were any undue demands made by the subjects in the syllabus. In my opinion, it is not necessary for children to sit up late at night in order to cope with the work of the school. I have never known them to sit up at night. In view of the free places, I think the number of scholarships might be diminished. A teacher puts in more work than appears on the surface. Railway-men and others also work more than the time specified as a working-day. The number of hours worked per week should be taken into consideration when making a comparison in regard to salaries. On the other hand, the work of a teacher is more racking, I think, than that of any of the others. I know of two or three Inspectors whom T would not consider adequately paid at £1,000 a year. The salaries were fixed for these positions some years ago and have remained the same, while salaries in every other walk of life have gone up. Braik and Mulgan are names to conjure with in the North Island; neither of these gentlemen T would consider overpaid at £1,000 a year. The work of an ordinary Inspector is well worth £600 a year. Up to certain standards I think women should have equal pay with men. T think the positions of first and second assistant in the largerschools should be held by men with the larger salaries, principally because the men generally have families to support. 4. To Mr, Davidson.} 1 think the teaching service is the least popular of any branch of the Government service, but this is being gradually overcome. Where a school which is in charge of a woman becomes a Grade 4 school, and entitled to an assistant, I would not put a man in as assistant. 5. To Mr. Hogben.] If a training-college student must now spend at- least four hours a week in science and elementary handwork, of which at least two hours must be devoted to science, this must be a modern regulation. It meets what I want. Regarding senior scholarships in agriculture, I would make them of the same standing as Junior University Scholarships. I would not make the children pass the Matriculation Examination. 6. To Mr. Poland.} With regard to children being overworked, T gave you only mv own experience. I am. not in a position to speak with respect to the outlying districts. The salary specified by the Act for the first secondary assistant at the Stratford District High School is only £220. The average number of pupils in the secondary department is about 118. We have four teachers for these. We are taking the rural course. Thomas Henry Battle examined on oath. (No. 143.) 1. To the Chairman.} I am architect to the Wanganui Education Board. I have prepared the following statement: The buildings in the district are mostly of wood, the larger schools of a more recent date being of brick. The comparison of cost between wood and brick is illustrated in the schedule under. These figures are from actual contracts, which might, however, differ somewhat in various parts of the district where materials and lajiour are more difficult to procure and the cost of haulage greater than in the towns. The Wanganui Central Infants' School is a fair example of wdiat can be done at a moderate cost in brick, the building being of a substantial quality without any waste in cost of construction, there being a total absence of anything that is expensive or unnecessary. This building is designed to accommodate four hundred pupils, with a floor-space of 12 square feet to each pupil, and an air-space of 193 cubic feet to each pupil. There are eight class-rooms, with 105 square feet of light or window space. The windows are each made to open at the top and bottom, and are hinged at bottom, and opening in so as to get a good circulation of air without a draught on. the pupils, and giving the air an upward tendency to the roof-ventilators, of which there are two in each room. There is also a central hall, 66 ft. by 37 ft., in centre of building which is not included in above. The schedule for the Wanganui Technical College, Marton District High School, and the other schools speak for themselves. The Gonville and Sedgebrook (Wanganui East) Schools are of wood, and the remainder of brick and concrete. Infants' School : Cost per superficial foot of floor-space, 7s. 7ci. per square foot; cost per cubic foot, 4d, Technical College, Wanganui: Cost per super-
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ficial foot of floor-space, 6s. 3d. per square foot; cost per cubic foot, 4Jd. Marton District High School: Cost per superficial foot of floor-space, Bs. sd. per square foot; cost per cubic fqfit, 4|d. Gonville School : Cost per superficial foot of floor-space, 6s. 2d. per square foot; cost per cubic foot, 3jd. Sedgebrook (Wanganui East) : Cost per superficial foot of floor-space, ss. Bd. per square joot; cost per cubic foot, 3|d. It has been endeavoured to plan and place the schools ]n-such a way that each room gets its full share of sunlight during the day, and to make them as healthy and bright as it is possible to do. 2. To Mr. Wells.] As to a conference of Board's architects, whenever men in any business meet with a fair intention to discuss matters and cast aside professional prejudices it is always possible to get better ideas, and if architects were got together in this way some good could come from it. There is far more information got by an architect from personal observation than from all the conferences one could possibly have. 3. To Mr. Hogben.] Generally speaking, building in Wanganui is cheaper than in some of the other districts. Bricks are £2 15s. a thousand. Sand is cheap here. I think the building of the Technical School as reasonable a job as I have ever had. The price was not extravagant, but the contractors did not lose money on it. John Edward Vernon examined on oath. (No. 144.) 1. To the Chairman.] lam Rector of the Palmerston North High School. I have held that position for ten years—practically since the school was established. Before that I was first assistant of the Invercargill High School for eight years and a half. I am a Master of Arts and Bachelor of Science. I represent the Board of Governors of the Palmerston North High School, as well as myself, and the following is a statement really from the Board : This school was established in 1904- under the Secondary Schools Act, and has no endowments. The income is chiefly derived from the capitation on free places, though there are also some school fees and a small amount received from the Wellington endowment reserves. During the whole eight years the income has been inadequate, with the result that the school has had to be worked with a small staff. About three years ago the grant for free places was increased from £10 15s. to a possible £12 10s. This enabled us to increase the staff to what it should be. It also enabled us to increase some of the salaries, but we are of the opinion that some of the salaries are still far too low. The result has been that we have far too frequent changes on the staff, as our teachers leave us to get larger salaries elsewhere. As capitation is not due until the end of the term, to pay the teachers' salaries the bank account is often overdrawn, even though we get an advance of £100 per month. This overdraft has to be guaranteed personally by the members. Further, as the current income of the Board is all required to pay the ordinary expenses of the school, there is no money for expansion or improvements. These all have to come from the public. Under the scale of payments in the Fifth Schedule it would appear that the unendowed school should draw higher grants than the endowed school. It is noticeable, however, that some of the schools with large endowments draw the maximum grant, because they spend all their income from endowments on buildings and improvements. On the other hand, if we wish to expand we must either go to the public or ask the Government for a special grant. During the past six years we have tried to develop an agricultural course, and we have now a course which includes agricultural botany, agricultural chemistry, agricultural and dairy science, with experimental work, along with lessons in sheepshearing and wool-classing. We cannot, however, expand the outside work for lack of funds to acquire ground and a special instructor. Technical School funds : This school has been under our charge for the past six years. During the first two years, owing to having an honorary Director, the funds were sufficient, but during the past four years the school has been worked at a loss, and it has only been by the help of donations that the current expenses have been met. During that time donations have amounted to no less than £500 (not including £750 collected for the site). Last year the amount paid for salaries was £1,187, while the fees and capitation only amounted to about £1,130, thus leaving a deficit of £57. This deficit, along with £150 of other expenses, was met by donations and the Government subsidy on them. It appears that the capitation paid is sufficient to pay the instructors' salaries and other expenses, but leaves nothing to pay the Director. We would suggest that where a paid Director is employed a special grant be given towards his salary. My own statement is a short one, as follows : With regard to the qualifications of those whom we get from the primary schools, I am forced to say that for our work they are not so well prepared as they were some years ago. The reading is not so good, the writing is disappointing, and they are not so far advanced in arithmetic, nor so accurate. Formal grammar they know little or nothing about. They are intelligent enough. If anything the memory is not so well trained as formerly. In our own schools I would urge the separation of boys and girls where possible. I have come to this conclusion after trying both ways. We should also have a variety of courses suitable to various callings; but this, I would point out, means a larger staff and therefore more money. This is especially the case in an agricultural community; the amount of practical work to be done means smaller classes and more teachers, and therefore more money. 2. To Mr. Poland.] As to overlapping between the Technical School and the High School at Palmerston, one of the reasons why our Board was anxious to get control of the Technical School was that there should be little or no overlapping. The Board has control now, and therefore there is practically no overlapping at all. We have practically no day classes. Agriculture is taught on Monday in the Technical School, but the class is only attended by half a dozen or so. At the High School we have twenty-eight. As to whether the half-dozen could take their agricultural course at the High School, at the latter institution the course is spread over all the week, while at the Technical School instruction is given for an hour or an hour and a half on Monday
J. E. VEKNON.]
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only. With respect to public contributions towards the High School, the Borough Council gave a site worth at least £5,000; when the school was started the public subscribed £200, and lately "£250 has been collected. 3. To Mr. Wells.] It is possible that the Education Board might control primary, secondary, and technical education in this district, given a strong local Committee in each case. 4. To Mr. Kirk.] At the High School we teach book-keeping, shorthand, and typewriting. They are alternatives to Latin. I have not the slightest objection to typewriting, but I have not seen any great educational benefit derived from it. Generally speaking, it is not taught in school hours. No shorthand is taught in school hours while the Latin is going on. As to educational value I regard it as being on much the same lines as typewriting. Ninety-five per cent, of those who take it up, I suppose, will not make any use of it. If we put shorthand out of our schools the public would cry out against it. In -a truly commercial course it is always included. At the High School the children do not go very far with shorthand—only the foundation is laid. If I had my way I would not have shorthand in the school at all; it could be learnt by any one who required it after leaving school. At my school there is not so much time devoted to civics and history as I should wish, but I am giving more time to them now than I did previously. I think spelling reform is impossible now, unless you have a consensus of opinion of the whole world's experts. I do not know that the Director of Education in Victoria has introduced it. I admit there is room for reform. I cannot come to any conclusion in the matter of sex physiology. Lately we had a lecture by Mr. Bligh. I never like to refuse him, but after the lectures I am as far away as ever. I only let him address the boys over fourteen. I think it would be much better if each individual boy were talked to privately. As to separate classes for boys and girls, I find that in the class-room they settle down much better to their work when separated. A woman teacher gets much better work out of the younger girls than a man does; she understands them better. And so with the males. I think the discipline has been better since I made the change. In the two lowest forms —Nos. 3 and 4—there are women teachers entirely for the girls, and men for the boys. In the upper forms the sexes are mixed, and they are taught sometimes by women and sometimes by men. Regarding physical exercise at the High School, those above fourteen take cadet work, and there is a gymnasium. Those below fourteen who are not Senior Cadets we give gymnastics once a week. As to playgrounds, at the High School we have 10 acres, and even then we have to hire a ground occasionally, because we have ten teams playing. With respect to the public schools in Palmerston, one of them has not enough ground : the others are much better off. The High School buildings are in excellent condition. At the present day there is a tendency to ignore the theoretical in education —everything has got to be practical; and they find afterwards that they cannot understand the practical because they have neglected the theoretical. I have no definite suggestion to offer, however; I think the high schools are working on more modern lines now than they did. 5. To Mr. Pirani.} With regard to government, I am of opinion that there ought to be more connection between the educational governing bodies. The Central Department should really have control of the lower department, and there ought to be more connection between the primary and the secondary. William Martin examined on oath. (No. 145.) I. To the Chairman.] lam science instructor under the Wanganui Education Board. I am a Bachelor of Science. I wish to make the following statement: The great aim of science-teaching is so to train the scholar that he will acquire both the habit and method of acquiring knowledge, that he will think logically, and put all his observations to the best use. This habit can neither be taught nor acquired by one day's work in formal science every week unless the whole work of the school is based on these lines. I find, however, that, with a few exceptions, the pupils leaving the primary department" enter upon the secondary-school course without the powers of accurate observation. They appear to be unable either to state orally or to write down anything like an accurate description of an object or experiment. Their minds become absorbed in the major or megascopic aspect, and their eyes are blinded to the accompanying details. I condemn the method of studying nature that predominates in our schools at the present time as failing to cultivate the power of observation. Nature-study on sound scientific principles consists in the close detailed examination of the operations of some one phase of natural phenomena, or in the study of some one series or group of natural objects, but not in a series of object-lessons having no immediate correlation the one with the other. .Studied thus nature-study need not take up more than a few minutes, once or twice a week, and will cultivate both the spirit of inquiry and the habit of observation. Many teachers complain that they are placed in such barren surroundings that there is no scope for study of this kind. In such cases the teacher simply proclaims his or her inability or inaptitude to direct a course of systematic study, for there is in reality no school in New Zealand placed in such a locality. A detailed study of the weather when accompanied by good graphical records forms an excellent subject, but unless the general bearing of such observations is carefully noted the vital aspect of the study is lost. Merely to see but not to infer is time as good as wasted. I find in my work at the various high schools that botany proves to be the most popular of all the and this seems due to the wealth of material for study and to the great scope for observation and inference. Unless the "what" and the "why," the two interrogatives of scientific study, are used in every other sentence the pupils fail to grasp the meaning either of inductive or deductive inference. I consider the only aspects of agriculture of value in the primary-school course are those that can be treated purely as nature-study. School-gardens should exist in every school, but by no means necessarily for the teaching of " agriculture " in. the more restricted sense. The garden is a most suitable place for training the child's power of observation, while
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at the same time it gratifies the child's aesthetic nature, and so provides a valuable adjunct to all educational method. Agriculture as such should commence in the secondary department, and only with such pupils as intend making their livelihood on the land. Agricultural botany, chemistry, and physical measurements are, however, subjects of the rural course that can with advantage be taken by all. I consider it advisable that the first places in the higher trainingschools and farms should be offered to those who hold certificates of two or more years' previous practical training in the rural course of the secondary school. The arithmetic part of the work 'in science is greatly handicapped by a want of ability on the part of the scholar either to work correctly or quickly. I would advocate a long tot in compound addition as the first exercise in every lesson in arithmetic for every pupil in and above Standard II every day of the year. If each child is provided with a memeographed column of figures on tough foolscap paper, say forty lines deep, he may by turning back the two ends of the paper expose any required number of lines, and each slip will provide wort for about a month. A. time-limit is set, and my experience has been that it is possible to get over 90 per cent, of scholars correctly to total up twenty columns of money seven figures deep in the pounds in five minutes. Too many of the pupils never get away from the concrete ideas of numbers, suggesting too little practice in the handling of numbers purely as numbers. I hold this to be the chief weakness of our present course in arithmetic. Every pupil in a secondary school should be taught a science subject for the sake of acquiring a right habit of mind, and every boy should take mathematics, more especially algebra. For secondary work I would advocate greater centralization as a means to greater efficiency and better equipment, and any expenditure thus saved might be devoted to scholarships and bursaries for the children of the less well-to-do, thereby debarring no one their present privileges by reason of the expense of boarding away from home. 2. To Mr. Poland.] During last year I went to the schools both in the northern and southern parts of this district, but this year I have cut, out the northern part. I take science at the Wanganui Technical College and at the high schools at Marton, Feilding, Hunterville, and Taihape. 3. To Mr. Wells.] I have had experience in the primary schools. I have been teaching now for something like ten years. I say confidently that in nature-study the results are not what they should be. I have just mentioned the matter to Mr. Braik, but I have discussed it with Mr. Stew-art, and Mr. Grant, and Mr. Brown. I think that both cookery and woodwork, should be taught in the schools; they are valuable courses. Regarding arithmetic, I think I would approve of the simplification of the present syllabus in order that more time might be devoted to the practical mechanical work. 4. To Mr. Hogben.] The principal reason for the failure, in my opinion, of nature-study in the primary schools is that the lessons are not connected. It would succeed, I think, if the lessons were connected in such a way as to make apparent to the child that there was method in the observation. I hold nature-study to be a connected series of observations of some definite process, such, for example, as the evolution of some part, of a plant. I regard geometry as more important than algebra. When I say that every boy should take mathematics, especially algebra, I am looking at the matter from the practical standpoint, not so much the educative standpoint. 5. To Mr. Pirani.] The fault with regard to nature-study is that the teachers have not been properly trained. If the teachers were better equipped the results would be better. I come into contact with teachers a good deal, and it is my experience that in the majority of cases they have no knowledge of scientific method.
Thursday, 4th July, 1912. Harold Trimble examined on oath. (No. 1.46.) 1. To the Chairman.] lam the Chairman of the Taranaki Education Board. I was a member of the Education Board for six years, and have been concerned in the administration of school affairs for a good many years. I desire, by direction of the Board, to bring the following matters under your notice:—Probationers: In this district there is a serious dearth of trained teachers. At the present time there are over sixty uncertificated teachers who have had little or no experience. The training colleges now in existence cannot apparently meet the demands, and consequently we have had to depend to a large extent for teachers for our smaller schools on those who have been trained as pupil-teachers or probationers in this district. On account of the regulations under the 1908 Act, whereby pupil-teachers are being gradually replaced by additional assistants, this source of supply will, unfortunately, be materially reduced. It seems to us, therefore, that the number of probationers allotted to this district should be considerably increased. We are now entitled to appoint five probationers each year, a number that will be totally inadequate when the pupil-teacher system passes out of existence. This number should be at least doubled. It would also be wise to lengthen the period of training of probationers from two to three years, and to require them to teach for the full five hours per day, seeing that comparatively few of them enter the training colleges at the completion of their apprenticeship. We are now compelled, owing to the scarcity of teachers, to appoint these insufficiently trained probationers to assistantships or sole-charge schools. The remuneration, moreover, now paid to probationers is not nearly sufficient to attract even suitable female applicants. As for male probationers, it is almost impossible to secure them. According to the present regulations a probationer must not be appointed to a school under Grade 4. As a great number of our probationers on the expiry of their two-years course are placed in charge of schools of a lower grade, it is advisable that' the Board should have the power to require them to serve their apprenticeship in schools of Grade 3. Assistants in Grade 4 schools : In a Grade 4 school, where the head teacher is a female, provision should be made to allow of the appointment of a male assistant. We fail to see what objection
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can be raised to such appointments, and certainly there are good reasons in favour of them. The services of a male teacher are undoubtedly almost essential for the efficient teaching of subjects such as drill, dairy-work, and agriculture. The experience that male assistants would gain in infant-room work would be of considerable value to them, seeing that many of them will sooner or later be placed in schools of Grades 1, 2, or 3, where they will have charge of the infant as well as of the standard classes. This work is of the utmost importance, and should not be left in the hands of a teacher who has had no experience in infant-room methods and organization. Training of inexperienced teachers : In an education district such as Taranaki, which is remote from any training college, and in which it is an undertaking to obtain sufficient teachers to staff the schools, some provision should be made for the local training of teachers. We would submit the following scheme: (1.) That the Education Department be approached with a viewto converting three of the schools in this district into special schools for the practical training of inexperienced teachers, who would be required to attend for a few weeks at a time for the purpose of gaining an insight into the working of an efficiently conducted school and acquiring experience in up-to-date methods of teaching. Here they would see the best work of the pupils, and thus have set before them an ideal or standard to be aimed at. They would also at the same time see the pupils at work, and have an opportunity of observing the best methods of organization and the means by which the high standard or results were obtained. (2.) We are of opinion that the schools set apart for this purpose should be of Grades 2, 3, and 4 respectively, as it is in these grades of schools that the majority of our inexperienced teachers will ultimately be placed either as assistants or head teachers. (3.) These schools should be so situated that they are in a neighbourhood where accommodation may be easily obtained by the trainees : (a) that they are within reasonable distance of the Education Office, so that the Inspectors may be in close touch with the work going on ; (b) in our district these conditions would be best met by establishing special schools at Norfolk, Waiongona, and Lower Mangorei. (4.) We think that all the needs of this district would be met by sending one trainee to each of these schools per month. By this arrangement we would in the course of a year be able to give increased experience in the practice of teaching to at least thirty teachers. (5.) So as to retain in these schools the services of the very best teachers available, the Department should be asked to recognize* these schools as special schools, and grant a salary commensurate with the importance of the school and the responsibility placed on the shoulders of the teachers. We would suggest that the salary of each of the head teachers of these schools be increased by £50, and that of the assistant in Grade 4 by £30. (6.) It might also be arranged that a portion of the grant now given by the Department for the instruction of uncertificated teachers should be paid to the head teachers of these schools should they be willing to instruct and direct the trainees in their literary studies for the teachers' certificate. If this system were adopted it would be a benefit not only to inexperienced teachers, but to other teachers, who, on the recommendation of the Inspector, would be granted a few days' leave of absence to visit , the special schools. The vacancy caused by the withdrawal of a teacher from a school would necessarily have to be filled by a relieving teacher. It will be evident that the extra cost to the Department if this system were introduced throughout the Dominion would be little compared with the advantages derived from it. School Committees :We would recommend that clauses 119 and 120 be repealed, and Hie following substituted for them : " If in any case the householders in any school district from any cause whatever fail to elect a Committee upon the annual day of meeting as hereinbefore provided, the Board shall appoint one or two Commissioners, who shall hold office until the next annual meeting, and shall have all the powers and shall perform all the duties by law assigned to a School Committee." Dominion scale of salaries for Inspectors : Some years ago a Dominion scale of salaries was established for the payment of teachers, and, as it seems to us that every branch of the teaching service from the lowest to the highest should be brought under the same system, we should strongly urge that a Dominion scale of salaries should also be provided for Inspectors. The position of Inspector is looked upon as one of the highest in the service, and no Inspector should receive a lower salary than the maximum received by any officer working under him. No education district, however small, should be handicapped by having to pay its Inspectors salaries neither commensurate with their responsibilities nor adequate enough to attract the best men for such important positions. If, moreover, an education district is not in the position to obtain men with the highest qualifications, then the efficiency of education in the district must suffer in consequence. To nationalize the salaries of the Inspectors would also tend to increase the chances of promotion for every teacher, as it would give more prizes to be striven for. Conveyance of children to schools : The Board has on more than one occasion endeavoured to arrange for the carriage of children to a school centrally situated, but on account of the unnecessary restrictions imposed by the regulations, and the insufficiency of the grant, it has so far been unable to make satisfactory arrangements. We would recommend that provision should be made for a more liberal grant, and also for giving the Board a free hand to make such arrangements as would best meet the needs of the district. If this were done, though there might be no monetary saving, yet there would be a gain in the efficiency of the instruction. The enlargement of the smaller education districts: The smaller districts are seriously hampered by want of funds for the efficient administration of education. For instance, in an important dairying and agricultural district such as Taranaki the Board should be placed in a position to enable it to provide adequate salaries for special instructors in agriculture and dairy-work, and also for a director of technical education. Furthermore, the area of promotion for teachers is. far too limited in these small districts. This militates against securing and maintaining the services of efficient teachers. The tendency is for ambitious teachers —especially males —to drift away to larger districts where the chances of advancement are greater. We are of opinion that, roughly speaking, the Taranaki Education District should be coterminous witli the province Control of primary, secondary, and technical
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education : We are of opinion that the above three branches of our education system should be under the control of one body —the Board —for (inter alia) the following reasons : (a) To minimize the overlapping .that now takes place; (b) for the sake of greater economy and efficiency in administration; (c) the Board, through rts Inspectors, would be in closer touch with the whole of-the education system of the district, and would therefore be in a better position to guard against the want of continuity in the work; (d) the teaching throughout would become more effective arid purposeful, as all the schools —primary as well as secondary—would be under the inspection and close supervision of the Board's officers. Subsidies in aid of primary schools : Section 100, subsection (b), Education Act, 1908, provides that voluntary contributions received by an Education Board for the benefit of a district high school shall earn a subsidy of equal amount from the Consolidated Fund. This should be extended so as to apply to the voluntary contributions received on account of any primary school. If it be objected that the cost would be too great then the subsidy might be smaller; but there is no doubt that if it were certain that a subsidy would be earned on such contributions there would be much more incentive to School Committees to raise money locally for the improvement of the surroundings and general equipment of a school than is at present the case. Salaries of assistants in Grades 4 and 5 schools : A very great difficultyis experienced in obtaining the services of qualified teachers for the position of assistants in our lower-grade schools. It frequently happens that assistants in these schools have charge of a department of forty or more children, including the pupils of the preparatory classes and Standards I and 11. For this important work we are of opinion that the services of skilful teachers should be secured, yet at the present time teachers holding these positions are paid a salary totally incommensurate with the responsibility of the positions. The initial salaries granted to teachers in charge of infant.departments of Grades 4 and 5 schools are £90 and £105 respectively —salaries lower than those paid to sole teachers in charge of Grade 2 schools, where the average attendance ranges from sixteen to twenty-five. 2. To Mr. Wells.] Probationers have to pass Junior Civil Service or Matriculation. I think that three hours a day is sufficient, but the Inspectors and majority of teachers in our district maintain that they should teach all the time. I think the term should be three years instead of two. They do not go to the Training College. 1 know of only one student who has gone to the Training College and come back again to the district. There is no stipulation that they shall come back to their own district. If they go to Wellington, and the Training College find that they are any good, they keep them there. Our Board does not discourage them to go to the Training College. The teachers we have had from the Training College seem as if they had been taught too much in a model school; they do not seem to be able to adapt themselves to a general school. We have a grading scheme for the promotion of teachers in our district, and it has worked well so far. As far as possible in making appointments the Board adheres to this scheme, and it has given general satisfaction, except to the Committees, who claim that they are deprived of the right to appoint a teacher, but that, in my opinion, is a very good thing. I think this grading scheme will lead to increased efficiency amongst the teachers. It has abolished canvassing as far as Committees are concerned. 3. To the Chairman.] This grading scheme has been in operation for two years. 4. To Mr. Wells.] I think there are too many school districts. I think that, however many districts there are, they should be as nearly as possible equal in size. I think economy could be effected in the educational system without injuring its efficiency if there were fewer Boards — that is, if the primary, secondary, and technical schools were controlled by one Education Board. 5. To the Chairman.] Many small schools might be amalgamated. There is a school now placed at Ohanui, and it is proposed to place a school a distance of five to six miles from the present school, and in my opinion that is unnecessary, because the children ought to be conveyed to Ohanui, the roads in that locality being perfectly good. There are separate schools at Lower Kent, Korito, at Upper and at Lower Mangorei. One school would take the -whole four; the furthest distance the children would have to be brought to the central school would be about seven miles, and the roads are good. 6. To Mr. Wells.] I have not the slightest doubt there would be a great deal of opposition from the settlers if any of the existing schools were closed. As a member of the Board I realize that the teaching in a medium-sized school yould be more efficient than in two or three small schools. We have one District High School (at Stratford) and one High School (at New Plymouth). 7. To Mr. Kirk.] A rural course is being taken at the District High School, but it is not attracting people on to the land. I think that the attraction to the land rests on different ground than any teaching in the school. Boys who have made up their minds to go on the land ought to be trained in some larger way; Ido not think the agricultural plots we have round the schools are the slightest use. I think the only way you can fit the pupils is by carrying out the work on the farm. I would suggest that they receive their primary education in the three Rs, and subsequently the rural course should be taken. 8. To Mr. Davidson.] I think one probationer should be allowed to be appointed to Grade 3 where practicable. I see no reason why a male assistant should not be appointed to schools of Grade 4, even if the head teacher were a woman, nor that he should take the infant classes. The assistant in a Grade 4 school is really a learner. I think it would be possible to get suitable men' to take the position of assistant in Grade 4 school—in fact, we had one or two in our district who were quite willing. We have a large number of teachers who are inexperienced and uncertificated : our idea was that we might train them to be more efficient if we could put them into special schools for a month or so, and let them learn from the better teachers how to teach. I think it is an advantage to have Inspectors under separate Boards. I think you should allow as much variety as possible in the interpretation of the syllabus. I think it would be better and more economical if you administered the whole of the education from a central authority. I
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think it would be in the best interests of education if teachers had equal opportunity for promotion with members of other branches of the Public Service, but I think there should be some certainty that a teacher's salary should go up to a reasonable amount even if he did not get promotion. There are only two schools in our district above Grade 8. The voluntary contributions towards our schools usually come from the same people. I think it would be fairer if the local bodies were allowed to strike a rate for the upkeep and general repairs of schools, and that these rates should be subsidized by the Government, so that all and not a few should help. 9. To Mr. Hogben.] We do not compel the pupil-teachers to go to a training college; we want them as assistants and sole teachers in small schools. My impression is that at the Training College the school is better fitted up than an ordinary country school, so that when the teachers go into a country school where there is no apparatus, &c, they are, in a sort of way, lost. You must make it worth somebody's while to convey children to the schools. I think you must give up the idea of paying so-much per head. The only thing I can see is that each case should be considered by the Board and the cost reported to the Department. If the Board ascertained the oost of carrying these children to school and then reported to the Department, "Well, it is going to cost so-much : will you do that or establish another school? " then the Department w-ould have to decide which would be cheaper. 10. To the Chairman.] I think the teaching of agriculture should be left to the district and secondary schools, but I think the areas of ground should not be limited to such small plots. Christina Murray Cruickshank examined on oath. (No. 1.47.) 1. To the Chairman.] I am the Lady Principal of the Girls' College, Wanganui. 1 had five years' teaching experience in the Otago Girls' High School, five years in the Timaru Girls' High School; I have also had some experience in Dunedin, in an Auckland private secondary school, and in a primary school in Otago. I am M.A. and M.Sc. I am graded Al by the Education Department. My attention has been directed to the following points as bearing on the object of the Commission : —(1.) The relation between technical and secondary education : It is, naturally, from the standpoint of the education of girls alone that I have viewed this question, and I can draw only on past and present experience. It seems to me that in process of time both technical and secondary schools have enlarged their conception of the scope of their work, and that just because of that there is a very real danger of overlapping. Once, practically all pupils in the secondary school took the curriculum that led through the various forms up to the highest, which was preparing for the Junior University Scholarship. Then the watchword was "culture"— culture through knowledge, largely literary —English, a modern and an ancient language, and mathematics and science—largely book knowledge—with music and drawing as opportunityoffered. To provide for training in mechanical efficiency technical classes were started, and just as the ideal of the secondary school has broadened out to include all the means of development open to the period of adolescence, and the ideal of culture through books has merged partly into that of culture through living, so at the same time those in charge of technical work, with the welfare of their pupils at heart, if I am not mistaken, have also modified their ideal. It has been said that business is quite prepared to sacrifice the man to his efficiency, and it is because those interested in the development of technical work see the man behind the workman that the ideals of the two types of institutions have tended to approximate. In that we have both been moving towards the consideration of the whole child, one from his head and the other from his hands, and we can hardly in justice blame one another; but I certainly would like to see some clearer principle of demarcation established than what at present exists. In the case of this school circumstances conjoin to make any competition that might exist between rival institutions less than in many other places; numbers come from places where there are few facilities for education for the sake of a general education; others come specially for musical training; many for the sake of the benefit to be derived from the corporate life of such a place. But in the past I resented the prospect of the secondary school being relegated to the preparation of pupils for university examinations; in the present I can see more clearly the advantageous effect on adolescent development of many-sided and practical interests and studies side by side with, or at their best interpenetrated by, the scholastic. The suggestion that there should be one controlling body equallyinterested in the development of primary, secondary, and technical education presents itself as a step in the right direction; all would depend on the constitution of this body, and on whether regulations could be framed sufficiently elastic to allow for that development of the individuality of each institution demanded by its own special needs, on which much of its educative force depends. (2.) Salaries, staffing, and training : These are questions that I have never considered in a general way —they have been met as the exigencies of the situation seemed to demand; but I believe that it would be to the advantage of secondary teachers as a whole if there were some more general system of classification for the payment of salaries than what at present exists. In regard to staffing, I think that the basis of an average of twenty-five pupils to each assistant is a very fair one. As things are, I find that the number of girls prepared to take up the general education and home course far outnumbers those taking the university one, and I think that more provision for expert teaching on this side will have to be made. That may come as graduates are trained by the university. With regard to the training of teachers for secondary work, I understand that some provision is made in the training colleges. I believe that there is room for more, and as one cannot but recognize the advantage of a training-college course in bringing one at the beginning of one's career face to face with the aims and methods of education in general, so I believe in the case of secondary work beginners should build on the best experience that has gone before. (3.) Syllabus and examinations :At present the greatest need is for the actual working-out of a well-graded four-years course for girls not taking the university course. This latter course is a very definite, thorough, purposeful one for those who have the wish and the
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ability to become the experts of the. future in various branches of knowledge. But just as sometimes the secondary school views the primary system as having or not having the one aim of providing suitable materiel for itself, and the primary workers insist that they have an aim of their own —that of setting the child who must do it out to face the world as well equipped as . his then development and the time at his disposal will allow of—so I hold that the secondary school "must have a 'definite aim for its own work apart from what forms its link with the higher university work. And for the large majority of girls this university course is purposeless and - fruitless. This is being accepted more and more. But the reaction from it is working out in another direction. If the danger of the one course with all its thoroughness was narrowness, the danger on the other is smattering and superficiality: The value of the secondary school to the community lies in developing the ordinary girl, according to her powers, into a wholesome, capable, intelligent woman with whatever charm of individuality is hers by nature and grows through thought and sympathy. The most fruitful way of doing this is by keeping the whole course in close touch with real things and real life. That is why 1 think dressmaking, cookery, typewriting, and classes in basket-making, w 7 ood-carving, and art needlework have a place with music and drawing. The manual training has a value apart from the aesthetic or utilitarian aspect of the subjects. There is a mental growth that comes from actually doing things. This, too, is why I would give a place to elocution and singing, developing other powers through doing this. But a girl needs also to get some glimpse, by a course of simple science, into the wonder of even the everyday things about her. This need not be elaborate—quality tells more than quantity —but it should be sufficient to give her an intelligent conception of the working of nature, quite apart from the microscopic detail appropriate to the training of the scientific expert. Then I am satisfied that physiology, to have any lasting value, must merge into hygiene —the consideration of the living body rather than the dead —and that along with first aid and simple nursing this should include, as a matter of course, the full and healthy treatment of those special functions on which the future welfare of the race depends. It would-be good, too, for women as a whole, if no girl were satisfied to leave a, secondary school without the assurance of being fit, in some way to do something for herself and for other people that would, if necessary, render her independent. 2. To Mr. Pirani,.] In the South it has always seemed to me that physiology stopped short at a point where it ought to go on, and I made up my mind that I would at least try the experiment of finding out what teaching could be done in that way, and I got a lady there who had been through the medical course, Dr. Agnes Baird, to give an address to about seventy of the girls. She treated matters very plainly and at the same time very finely. Of course, I believe that teaching like this lias to be very sensibly done and very carefully done, and yet at the same time that it should be handled as a matter of course. Since 1 have come to Wanganui I have been particularly fortunate in having what I consider to be the right type of people to do this. I had one lady, a married lady, who had been trained as a nurse, and in her nursing classes she carried her teaching right up to this point. She showed me, at the end of the year, certain papers in which the girls had written their impressions of the teaching in a general kind of way, and I- could feel that the girls themselves had appreciated it. I know one girl spoke of being anxious to do more to make her home better and happier because of her knowledge. This year I got Dr. Dunn, another lady who has been through the medical course, to take the same class, and she treats the matter quite as a matter of course, and the girls themselves do so, and I see nothing but good as the result of it. At the same time I would never think of saying that all and sundry could do it. In the matter of appointments to my staff the Board have always consulted me, and in every case have appointed teachers I recommended. I sometimes notice defects in regard to pronunciation by the pupils, but I do not ascribe this to the teachers in the College or the primary schools. 3. To Mr. Wells.] I think a course of training for secondary-school teachers.might be undertaken at the Training College. I cannot help thinking that there is just as much room for modern and better methods in the secondary as in the primary schools. I think the salaries offered in our institution sufficient to secure the class of teachers required. 4. To Mr. Kirk.] I think it is desirable that pupils should do a reasonable amount of homework. '"' 5. To Mr. Davidson.] I have about one hundred and eighty pupils in my school; I have eight assistant teachers, and visiting teachers us well. About half the students are boarders, and that means that extra work is entailed in the way of supervision of lessons and leisure too. I think the work for the Junior University Scholarship is not too much for the girl who has the intellectual ability and is physically- strong, but I think that probably a good number try for that scholarship who are just below that level, and then I think it is injurious to them. I think the domestic course would be a very good line for girls to take. I would suggest a graded course covering four years for girls not taking a university course. 6. To Mr. Hogben.] 1 think it would be a great advantage if we could get some one, such as Profesor Boyes-Smith or Miss liawson, or both of them, to meet the Principals of girls' schools in order to consult and confer with regard to the drawing-up of a scheme for domestic science for girls in secondary schools. 7. To the Chairman.] The education of girls, having regard to woman's proper work in the life of the nation, is a very difficult problem. I get a great number of students below the average and physically unfitted to pass the University examinations; still, many of them have to do something in the future to provide for themselves and even for their parents, and so they must try to qualify for the work that would be most remunerative.
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George D. Braik examined on oath. (No. 148.) 1. To the Chairman,] i am the Chief Inspector of the Wanganui School District, and have held that position for six years and a half. I. was Inspector for the Education Board in Southland for-seventeen years 1 have had considerable teaching experience. 1 was assistant in the District High,. School, Lawrence, for three years; 1 was also assistant in the Union Street School and in Arthur Street School. I am classified Bl by the Education Department, and am M.A.Edin. I have prepared the following statement : 1 desire, in the first place, to present a statement concerning what I conceive to be the three vital educational problems—viz., the co-ordination of primary, secondary, and technical education, the promotion of teachers, and the rates of payment of teachers. For the last six years my Board has been making what may fairly be described as an educational experiment on a grand scale, nothing less than the co-ordina-tion of primary, secondary, and technical education within its- boundaries. Before speaking of the work of organization and supervision, let me briefly state the extent and nature of the educational institutions coming within the purview of the Board's administration. There are 195 primary schools, 9 district high schools, eleven technical schools, a farm school, the Wanganui Technical College, and (administered by the Board) the Wanganui Girls' College, in addition to which there were supervised last year by the Board's officers seventeen private schools. The supervision staff comprises three Inspectors and an organizing Inspector. The organization is simple. The- three Inspectors jointly or severally supervise the work of the primary schools, the private schools, and the secondary departments of the district high schools. The Chief Inspector for the time being is charged with the duty of inspecting the Technical College and the Girls' College in such manner as the Board may deem desirable. He is also Superintendent of Manual and Technical Instruction, a department of the Board's work that is organized as follows : In each of the four centres into which the district naturally divides itself —the North, Wanganui, the Centre, and the South—there is a Director of Technical Instruction. These Directors work in conjunction with honorary Committees at each chief centre of each district —viz., Hawera, Wanganui, Marton, and Feilding. At the other centres at which there are technical-school buildings local directors work in conjunction with local Committees, which may be a special Committee elected for the technical schools, as at Eltham and Taihape, or the School Committee, as at Patea or Bull's. The central Committees, through their Directors, are in touch with the local bodies, such as County Councils, Borough Councils, agricultural and pastoral societies, farmers' unions, and Chambers of Commerce. The schools are thus brought directly into relation with the influential public men in each district; and not only so, but through the Committees and Directors they are brought into direct relation with individual employers, parents, and students. The Director of each district—except at Wanganui, where the Principal of the Technical College is Director—is also supervisor of agricultural instruction in the primary schools, the secondary departments of the district, high schools, and the Saturday training classes for teachers. To a considerable extent the schools are supported by donations from public bodies, and these donations, with class fees, the capitation earned by the classes, and the capitation earned for supervision of agriculture, have hitherto provided the salaries of the- Director and the upkeep of the school buildings. The permanent instructors, of whom there are (inclusive of the Wanganui Technical College staff) tw 7 enty-one, are appointed by the Board, while the teachers required exclusively for evening work are appointed by fhe local Committees on the recommendation of the local Director. Immediately after the close of each month each of the Directors forwards to the office a report on the state of technical instruction in his district, and each of the special instructors a report on the work and conduct of each class under his charge. I have entered upon these details with a view to demonstrating to you the possibility of a Board's controlling and co-ordinating the primary, technical, and secondary instruction given within its bounds. The method of organization has also an important bearing on the next point to which I desire to call your attention—viz., the promotion of teachers. In promoting its teachers the Board follows the practice now to be described. A book known as the " efficiency register " is kept, in which are entered the following particulars regarding each teacher in the Board's service : Name, condition (married or single), length of service; and under "professional skill" the following: Teaching ability, power of organization, power of discipline, environment, certificate, and personality. There are other particulars, as may be seen from an inspection of the book, but these need not detain us. At the close of each year the Inspectors confer regarding the position that each teacher should occupy on the register, in view of his work during the year. In all 100 marks are awarded for efficiency —30 for teaching; 10 for organization, which includes the adaptation of means to ends, the keeping of records, and the compilation of schemes of work and daily lesson books; 10 for discipline; 10 for environment, which includes, with respect to the schoolroom, the condition of the furniture, apparatus, equipment, and also cleanliness, neatness, taste, and ventilation, and, with respect to the playground, the condition of the school paths, grounds, and gardens, and also provision for suitable games and efficient supervision; 10 for personality, by which is meant the teacher's influence on his pupils, his staff, and the community in which lie lives, his business capacity, and his educational outlook; 20 for certificates—D, 5; C, 10; B, 15; and A, 20. For service a maximum of 10 may be obtained. In awarding marks the Inspectors consider all the circumstances as far as possible, and in the case of a difference of opinion the vote of the major-ity decides. The names of the teachers thus classified are arranged alphabetically under four heads —certificated head teachers, uncertificated head teachers, certificated assistants, and uncertificated assistants. The names of head teachers are then arranged under the grades of schools in which they are employed, divided into ten ranks according to the percentage of efficiency marks obtained. The names of the assistant teachers are similarly arrano-ed according'to grade of salary received. As soon as the register is completed it is submitted to the Board, and on being adopted becomes the basis of promotion for the ensuing year.
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Each teacher receives a notification of the position that he occupies on the list—not merely the rank that he occupies within his grade, but also the position within that rank. When a vacancy occurs the register is consulted, and the teacher occupying the first place in the first rank of the grade below the grade of the position to be filled has the preference for promotion. In exceptional cas.es —as, for example, when there is no teacher in the first rank of the grade below the grade of the position to be filled —the data contained in Ihe register are carefully compared and weighed with a view to the discovery of the teacher having the best claim to promotion. The system, though doubtless sharing the imperfections incidental to all human contrivances, has without doubt raised the efficiency of education in this district. Having described the Board's system of co-ordinating primary, secondary, and technical instruction, and its method of appointing teachers, I now venture, with some diffidence, to suggest how by carrying these systems to their logical issue the problems of promotion and co-ordination may to a great extent be solved. The chief obstacle to the establishment of a system of promotion satisfactory to teachers is the small number of schools in some education districts. Were the Dominion divided into education districts containing a school population of from twenty thousand to twenty-five thousand, and the primary, secondary, and technical schools all placed under one administrative body, the case would be different. The area of promotion would be greatly increased, and the chances of teachers finding their appropriate niche in the work of education multiplied. Teachers, according to their special ability, might be transferred from the primary to the secondary school, from the technical school to the secondary school, and or from the secondary school to the technical school, and so on. A district of the area indicated might be supervised by a group of Inspectors who could see enough of all the teachers' work to be in a position to correct each other's judgment. In a larger district it would be difficult if not impossible for each Inspector to have sufficient knowledge of the work of all the teachers to adequately assess it, and in a smaller district the system could not be applied to the best advantage. The Department's classification list would be compiled from the efficiency marks supplied by the Inspectors, and an interchange of Inspectors between districts would facilitate the reduction of the efficiency marks awarded in all districts to a common denominator. It is hardly necessary to add that the system outlined would lead not merely to an increase of efficiency by the prevention of overlapping and the reduplication of instruction, but also to great saving in expenses of administration, supervision, maintenance, and equipment. It may interest the Commission to know the amounts of voluntary contributions received by the Board during the last five years for the purposes of secondary education, school technical classes, and special or adult technical classes : Towards the funds of district high schools, £2,128 7s. 3d.; towards promotion of school technical classes, .£ll4 19s. Id.; towards promotion of special classes, £3,351 ss. 7d. The following is a list of the contributing bodies : Wanganui Borough Council, Hawera Borough Council, Marton Borough Council, Feilding Borough Council, Egmont County Council, Oroua County Council, Pohangina County Council, Rangitikei County Council, Kiwitea County Council, Waneanui Builders' Union, Wanganui Painters' Union, Wanganui Chamber of Commerce, Feilding Chamber of Commerce, Feilding Agricultural and Pastoral Association, Hawera Agricultural and Pastoral Association, Wanganui School Committee, Marton Chamber of Commerce, Manawatu County Council, New Zealand Farmers' Union (Wanganui), New Zealand Farmers' Union (Taranaki), New Zealand Farmers' Union (Palmerston North). Capitation earned on account of school and special classes during the last three years was as follows : School—l9o9, £2,077 19s. 7d.; 1910, £2,766 19s. 6d. ; 1911, £3,113 "16s. 6d. Special—l9o9, £2,622 16s. 10d.; 1910, £3,175 4s. Bd.; 1911, £3,166 7s. 3d. Supply of teachers : I should have included this subject amongst the pressing educational problems of the day. It is perhaps the most pressing. I should premise that the Board has no difficulty in getting suitable teachers for positions worth £120 and over. It is the £90 position that cannot readily be filled, and at the present time it is absolutely impossible to get certificated teachers to take it up; nay, more —we cannot, as we could formerly, get young men and women with some educational attainment to take it up. Here is one of the results : Since the beginning of the present year no fewer than twenty-seven of our best pupil-teachers have been appointed to such positions, which means a loss of teaching-power in the schools vacated by these pupilteachers, "interference with their studies, and so many less students to the Training College at the end of the year, for there is not the faintest hope that the supply from the College at the end of the year will enable the Board to release these assistants with a view to their proceeding to the College at the beginning of next year. It has been proposed that the Boards should send Home for a supply of fully qualified tenchers, but would a £90 assistantship or sole-teachership attract fully certificated teachers to our country, and if it did would they be satisfied with it when here? As a remedy I would suggest (1) that the number of probationers be increased; (2) that no more additional assistants be appointed till the supply of teachers approximates the demand, except so far as it may be deemed necessary to appoint them in rapidly increasing schools; (3) that a grant should be made to the Boards for the training of teachers locally till the present difficulty is overcome. As a matter of fact, the Boards, through their Inspectors, do train a considerable number of teachers, men and women who enter the profession with some educational attainments but no experience. Some of these " casuals " are now doing excellent work, and are fully certificated. My idea is that the Boards should be in a position to advertise for, say, five or ten or twenty, as the case may be, young people who wish to become teachers, making a selection of the most promising and subjecting them to a three months' training before sending them out to positions. A crude procedure perhaps, but less crude than sending them out without experience. District high schools : Clinging to the notion that the foundation of a liberal education is, as in 1878, the Latin and Greek classics, some of our Committees have been inclined to " cold-shoulder " the agricultural course, and some teachers, T fear, either from miiwading the signs of the times or from motives of unenlightened self-interest, have been only too ready
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to magnify the fruits of purely formal education. It is not realized that, during the thirty-four that have passed since the district high schools were first established, real as opposed to formal education has asserted its claim to a " place in the sun." It is not too much to say that man's outlook with respect to nature and society has been completely changed during those thirty•four years, and yet there are some who would tune the strings of the young mind to exactly the same key in this new world as they did in the old. The time has come for the district high schools to give place to something more in accordance with the actual facts of existence, and the first step should be the establishment of agricultural high schools at centres where an average of not less than fifty pupils with proficiency certificates could be maintained. In such a school Latin would have no place, but French or German, as being the instruments of present-day thought, would. May Latin and Greek flourish, but not at the expense of the State. The course of study at the agricultural high schools —wdiich must come sooner or later—would be the humanities, but it would be founded on human activities as well as on human thought. Rural course : The ruralcourse syllabus is overburdened. It might be very suitable for an agricultural high school, but under present conditions it is but a partner in a compromise, and, as a course, would be more efficient if reduced in amount. The strictly agricultural and domestic studies should be redistributed so as to occupy for boys and girls respectively not more than nine hours instead of thirteen hours as at present. The course in its scope and intention is admirably adapted to the needs of rural pupils, but it would get nearer to.its mark if it were less ambitious. Were the schools not dominated by the Matriculation and Civil Service ideas rural education would have a better chance. School technical classes :As will be seen from the figures submitted, the capitation allowance for cookery and woodwork is insufficient to pay the instructors' salaries, the reason being that while the capitation has remained the same the cost of skilled teaching has risen. It is clearthat something should be done in the direction of increasing the capitation, else the teaching of the subjects will suffer. Earnings and expenses: (a.). Cookery —Earnings, 1910, £431 7s. 7d. ; 1911, £454 7s. 6d. : expenses, 1910, £527 ss. Bd.; 1911, £534 13s. 6d. (b.) Woodwork—Earnings, 1910, £485 19s. 4d.; 1911, £460 Is. 3d.: expenses, 1910, £588 17s. 2d.; 1911, £557 ss. The salaries of the special instructors in agriculture and science are derived from the following sources : Capitation on primary-school classes, capitation of rural-course classes, preparation of the ground for the training of teachers, donations from public bodies. Without the latter it would be impossible to pay anything like adequate salaries. Dearth of qualified special instructors : Though the ranks of the primary- and secondary-school teachers may be filled in the Dominion, there is one class of teacher that at the present time is not procurable—l mean good woodwork and metal-work instructors. If this phase of education is to be efficiently developed it -would pay the Department to arrange for the importation of fully qualified men. Qualified teachers with special certificates for woodwork, and metal-work would be the most suitable type of men. Recently my Board endeavoured in vain to procure the services of such a man, though it advertised in every centre and offered a salary of £200 per annum. Vocational training : Till agricultural high schools are established vocational courses for " free-placers " can hardly exist outside the larger centres. In the engineering course, the agricultural course, and the commercial course at the Wanganui Technical College, and in the agricultural course at the Marton Secondary Schools' Farm, and —in a sense less strictly true —in the rural course at the district high schools we have examples of vocational training. At the Wanganui evening vocational classes the " free-placers " are also in evidence. Vocational training means equipment and staff, and cannot, strictly speaking, be provided except at the larger schools. Below are given statements showing the subjects taken, by the free-place pupils attending evening classes in the district during 1911: Omitting Wanganui—Dressmaking, 16; cookery and hygiene, 4; woodwork, II; book-keeping and shorthand, 7; millinery, 4; home nursing, 8; art needlework, 2; art, 22; shorthand, 2; book-keeping, 37; shorthand and typewriting, 23; Maori, 9. At Wanganui Technical College—Commercial courses, 48; book-keeping, 15; shorthand, 18; art, 11; applied art, 4; mechanical drawing, 4; practical engineering, 6; dressmaking, 14; elementary carpentry, 1; geometry and mathematics, 1; agriculture courses and engineering courses, 32. Rates of teachers' salaries: Tdo not propose to deal with this subject as a whole, but to call attention to some anomalies that should be removed. The initial salaries of teachers leaving training colleges with a certificate should be not less than £100 per annum. As matters stand teachers wholly without experience and educational attainments, pupil-teachers of their second year or third year, and certificated teachers who have spent two years at the training college, may have, and in many cases do have, exactly the same salary, which is absurd. In Grade 4 schools there should be an increment of salary for every increase of ten pupils in average attendance : it is not uncommon to find at adjacent schools one teacher in charge of a school w 7 ith an average of forty pupils receiving exactly the same salary, or perhaps more, than a teacher at the other with an average attendance of seventy. Head teachers of schools of Grades 5, 6a, 6b, when rural or township schools, should be relatively better paid than head teachers of city schools, for these reasons : (a) they have to teach two or three standard classes, supervise the work of the school, instruct one or two pupil-teachers, and conduct the correspondence incident to the conduct of the school; (b) they are responsible for the ethical and educational, standards set in their districts, a responsibility which is distributed in town schools; (c) they sometimes have pupils in Standard VIT taking secondary work, and in this district at any rate they interest themselves in technical instruction and in the scientific aspects of farming. The teachers of these schools have done magnificent service in this district, and the remuneration for the positions that they occupy should be such as to attract the best men that the profession can command. Referring to the salaries of special assistants at district high schools, I should like to call your attention to the experiences of my Board during the last six or seven years. The Board has over and over again advertised for special assistants without response, or with an impossible response, and on no
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occasion has a really suitable assistant been satisfied with his position —and no wonder. The first assistant in a secondary department of fifty to sixty pupils is paid at the same rate as a teacher in a Grade 4 school with perhaps about forty pupils in attendance, except that the latter has a house allowance in addition to his -salary. The special assistant has to teach advanced English, "-mathematics, Latin, and science, as well as to take a share of the work of the agricultural course, and if he does not get Senior Free Place passes, Junior Civil Service passes, and Matriculation passes he is put down as a " duffer." There is a certain amount of irony in the position. The first assistant in a primary school of 9a receives a salary of £240 to £270. His pupils go to the district high school to be taught secondary subjects by a special assistant receiving a salary of £180 to £210, or perhaps £150 to £180. At the present time four of our special assistant's are young men just out of the training college, in two schools the assistants are ladies, in another the assistant's (male) salary is augmented by an annual contribution of £25 from the Committee, and from another the assistant, one of the most promising teachers in the Board's service, has just gone into the more lucrative business of dairying, and another equally promising is equally dissatisfied. Salaries of assistants in separate infants' schools : Recently the Board had occasion to appoint the staff of the newly established Central Infants' School. It was deemed necessary to require of the first assistant certain special qualifications demanded by the nature of the position to be filled—viz., special qualifications in singing, kindergarten games, storytelling, and callisthenics. As the salary attaching to the position is but £120 to £150, the Board determined to offer an initial salary of £150 in order to secure qualified applicants. Even this salary did not bring the response expected. When the maximum salary is attained by both the head teacher and the first assistant the difference will be £90, which in the circumstances does not seem justifiable. If the first assistant occupied a similar position in a mixed school of the same grade the salary would be £180 to £210. It is suggested that the Commission should recommend that the salaries attaching to the .assistants' positions in separate infants' schools should be increased. Staffing of schools: Though under normal conditions the staffing of the schools may be regarded as adequate, experience shows that in the case of rapidly growing districts the scale does not meet requirements. At the present time, for instance, the real grade of Gonville School is one grade higher than its normal grade, and there are seventy-eight pupils to each certificated teacher. Such cases not infrequently occur in this district, and the regulations should be so amended as to enable the Board, upon being assured that the increase is to be continuous, to provide the extra assistant or assistants required. The regulation should also be amended in such a manner that in the event of a serious epidemic the attendance during the quarter during which the epidemic was most prevalent should not be reckoned in determining the yearly average attendance, and that for this purpose the average attendance of the three remaining quarters be taken. Training colleges and training of pupil-teachers : Tinder the old conditions the lot of the pupil-teacher was hard, but his training so far as it went was thorough. Its chief defects were —I am speaking of it as I knew it—the absence of general culture, and an unsympathetic attitude towards his work and pupils on the part of the pupil-teacher. But he was superior to the modern product in several respects; he could control a class, he knew how to ask questions, and he did not feel that he had attained the summit of knowledge and professional skill. Morality in schools : Little complaint has been heard by the Inspectors on this score. The best index of a low moral tone at a school is to be found in the presence or absence of loose writing on the walls of the outbuildings, and of such writing there is practically none. This is a splendid tribute to our schools, and we believe that the secret of the teachers' success lies mainly in the interest taken by both teachers and pupils in the grounds, gardens, and organized games. If one sees the boys leaning against the walls of the school with their hands in their pockets, and the girls wandering aimlessly about, one knows perfectly well what to expect on the walls of the out-offices. The best guardian of school morals is healthy activity inside and outside of the school building, and to secure this activity there should be ample space for school games and school-gardens. Nature-study : The great difficulty with nature-study is the teacher, not the child or the subject. It is not so much a matter of instruction as a matter of sympathy. The child is always in sympathy with nature; the teacher very often is not. The subject comes to school with the child, and there is every reason why it should remain with him there. Naturestudy is in itself delightful, and is alw-ays popular with the children. Observation schools : These have been of undoubted service in our district. They induce teachers to place their schools in the front rank of efficiency, and, by showing the best that may be done in work and organization, they are an inspiration to the teachers visiting them. We have had standing testimony and direct evidence as to the valuable service that they render. Free books : There is unanimity among the teachers that the system has been unsatisfactory from its inception. The money could be spent to greater advantage in the purchase of school stationery, school libraries, and school apparatus. Private schools : General exemption certificates should not be granted unless the Board is satisfied as to (a) efficiency and regularity of instruction, (b) sufficiency of accommodation, (c) suitability of furniture, (d) sufficiency of equipment, (c) efficiency of sanitary arrangements. Correspondence schools : Correspondence schools should be registered and brought under the sweep of the Department's administration so far as terms, courses of instruction, and efficiency are concerned. Taranaki Scholarships :In the year 1860 10,000 acres of confiscated land in the Taranaki Provincial District were dedicated to the promotion of secondary education in the province. The Taranaki Scholarships Act requires that the holders of the scholarship should pass the Junior University Scholarship Examination, a qualification that has proved too much for the schools of the district, with the result that there is now in hand a sum of £9,488 18s. 3d., the revenue for the past year being £1,084, and the expenditure £271 4s. 7d. A deputation from the Wanganui Board conferred with the New Plymouth High Schools Board and the Taranaki Education Board in the month of April last, and the following recommenda-
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tions were agreed to: (1) That the qualifying examination should be Matriculation; (2) that more than one scholarship might be granted to the same school in any one year; (3) that half **he annual income should be devoted to literary scholarships and half to agricultural scholarships to be held at the University. As an alternative proposal my Board suggested that an agricultural school should be started in connection with the Moumahaki State Farm, and that the available funds should be devoted to the building and equipment of the school and the income to its maintenance. The Board feels that in allowing the money to lie unused the responsible educational authorities are doing an injustice to education, and prays your Commission to consider the position. Scholarships : 1 should not like to see the £10 scholarship abolished. A premium should be put upon ability and effort, and clever pupils should not merely have the funds wherewith to buy good books, but also to indulge their tastes so far as to purchase such accessories to education as a camera, a microscope, tools, or electrical apparatus. Our special scholarship problem, however, relates to agricultural education. From the day that a pupil enters the infant department—and even before that—he is a nature-student. His studies in the standards lead him to agriculture as a nature-subject, and finally in the secondary classes there come the beginnings of specialization and elementary scientific method. But after two or three years' secondary training he must either go on the land, which he may wish to do, or he may wish to continue his studies in agriculture, which he cannot do for want of means. As there are no agricultural scholarships to lead him higher, his previous studies have but led to an educational cul de sac. In view of the fact that Sir J. Logan Campbell has bequeathed ,£20,000 to Auckland University to found a Chair in Agriculture, it behoves the Education Department to set about completing the educational ladder in this subject. One other phase of this question 1 must mention. In our district the fear is ever with us that we shall lose our instructors. We know that we should have the utmost difficulty in replacing them But with a system of scholarships for agriculture in operation we could look with confidence to the universities to supply us with the men that we require. My colleagues and I agree that the regulations and the syllabus should be amended as here set out : —Classification of pupils : We hold that the pupils of schools below Grade 3 should be classified by the Inspectors except when such schools are in charge of fully certificated teachers, and in the case of any school the Inspector should have the power at any time to direct that pupils shall be placed in any class for such time as he may direct. It is not an uncommon thing to find that the power of classification has been abused to the detriment of the pupils. Term examinations: While we believe that the head teacher of a school should assure himself as to the progress of each pupil in each class by occasional informal tests, we think that two formal examinations in each year should be sufficient. Annual examination returns : Clauses 6 and 7 should be deleted altogether, and provision made in the examination register for the requirement stated in subclause ((/). We have found in practice that these clauses serve no useful purpose. Clause 9 : The whole of this clause except the first sentence should be deleted. Competency certificates in Standard VI : The requirements for a competency certificate in Standard VI should be more clearly defined. Clause 30: (a.) "Classes PI to Standard II " should be amended to read, " In all schools of Grade 0, 1, 2, and 3, all the additional subjects may be omitted except handwork." (b.) Geography and history should be removed from the list of additional subjects, and placed along with the compulsory group, (c.) In schools of Grades 0, 1, 2, and 3, all the additional subjects may be omitted except handwork and needlework, (d.) In schools of Grade 4 and upwards the additional subjects shall be handwork, with the addition of elementary science for boys and needlework for girls. Clause 35 to be so amended as to include the following : " In places where there is a district high school or a secondary school coming under Part V of the Secondary Schools Act, and in places from which pupils could travel daily to such a school, the work of Standard VII shall not be taken." Syllabus:—English: No good purpose seems to be served by word-building, which might be altogether deleted from the syllabus; word-analysis in Standards V and VI should be retained. The amount of poetry to be committed to memory should not exceed a hundred lines. Standard V should be able to recognize all the parts of speech, and the teacher should be allowed to teach the principles of 'grammar so far as they bear on composition and the correction of wrong forms. Analysis should not be taught till the pupil reaches Standard V. The study of sentence-structure in Standard VI should be greatly simplified ; the tests now given in Standard VI are much too involved for primaryschool pupils. Arithmetic: Standard HI syllabus should include the preliminary practical work for Standard IV in long measure (yards, feet, and inches), avoirdupois (ounces and pounds), capacity (pints and (marts), square foot and square inch. The meaning of proper fractions as now required by Standard IV should be included in the Standard 111 syllabus. In the Standard IV syllabus poles and roods should not Be excluded. Addition and subtraction of easy simple fractions and first notions of the meaning of decimal fractions, with addition, as applied to practice. Bankers' discount should be withdrawn from Standard VI and placed with the reckoning of compound interest for half-years in Standard VII. Troy weight should be altogether omitted. In all classes greater prominence should be given to mental arithmetic, and in Standards V and VI to easy long tots in money and avoirdupois weight. In every class the principles of arithmetic should be developed from concrete examples founded on the actual use by the pupils themselves of coins, weights, and measures. This method of applied arithmetic has been attended by excellent results in this district. Geography :In Standard HI the pupils should receive definite instruction on the relative positions of the continents and oceans, and of the countries more immediately interesting to pupils of the British race. In all classes the geography taught incidentally through the medium of readers should be periodically systematized. - The more difficult portions of physical and mathematical geography should be transferred from the primary- to the secondary-school syllabus. Physical and mathematical geography should not be taught apart from the human interest and human consequences attached to them. The one
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should always be taught as a counterpart of the other. Drawing : Design as such should not be taught till the pupils reach Standard IV. Only one kind of free drawing should be required. The Standard IV syllabus should be distributed between Standard IV and Standard V, and the present Standard V syllabus should be omitted altogether. History : The present arrangement by which geography and history may be taken in alternate years has proved disastrous. A -.certain amount of each should be taken continuously throughout each year. Handwork :We are thorough believers in the educative value of handwork. No one who remembers the dreary primary-school programmes of twenty years ago could possibly advocate its exclusion from the syllabus. The teacher may sometimes be in fault, but never the subject, which in skilful hands may be made to reinforce the teaching of every other subject in the school course. Nature-study : The present course of nature-study is neither suggestive nor coherent. The best possible course of nature-study for primary schools would be the course having the school-garden for its material and inspiration. The garden contains everything necessary for interest, profit, and instruction —the texture and inhabitants of the soil, the life-history of the insects, the habits of the bird visitors, the germination of seeds, growth and development of vegetables, the appearance habits and uses of the shrubs and trees, to which should be added the effects on the whole of the changing moods of nature. If such a course were sympathetically- followed the delights attendant on nature-study would not fail the children. The school-garden :We find that the school-garden movement has had an immensely beneficial effect on the schools of this district. It has interested the people in the schools; in conjunction with dairying it has instilled into the minds of the pupils first notions regarding scientific method. It has afforded opportunities for the practical application of arithmetic, drawing, composition, and book-keeping, as well as encouraged the virtues of thrift, foresight, and industry. In short, as a tonic for mind and body we consider the school-garden to be unmatched by any other school subject, and the movement is yet but in its infancy. Brother Basil examined on oath. (No. 149.) 1. To the Chairman.] I am the Principal of the Marist Brothers' School at Wanganui. I was trained as a teacher, and belong to the teaching order of the Marist Brothers. I have prepared the following statement: It is not my intention to trespass on your time to treat of the various phases of the scholastic question that has been occupying your attention for some time in various parts of the Dominion, but rather to bring under your favourable notice a few of the grievances under which the children of parochial or primary private schools are labouring — viz., free school-books, technical education, and capitation for children learning to swim. Free school-books : I beg to submit that the children attending primary Catholic schools are those of parents who can least afford .to pay for school-books. Most of these parents pay a weekly fee ranging from 6d. to Is. 6d., and when one or two and sometimes three children come from one family the school fees become a very heavy tax indeed on fathers who are for the most part workingmen. I think, therefore, that these parents should be relieved of the burden of buying books to the same extent as their neighbours whose children are attending State schools. I think that a claim such as this has justice and equity to support it. These free books are paid for by the State out of the revenues resulting from taxes and Customs duties, to which the Catholics of this Dominion contribute their clue proportion. To give books gratuitously to the children attending the public schools and refuse them to those going to "private schools is inflicting a poignant hardship on the latter. This hardship is all the greater since the parents of children attending public schools pay nothing directly for the education they receive there, and so should be in a position to pay at least for their school-books; whereas the children attending private schools cost the State nothing, and so they have, I make bold to aver, a prior claim to such books as the State supplies free of cost to the children attending the State schools. Technical education :In the matter of woodwork and cooking the children of private schools are, and have been for years, at a very serious disadvantage through a want of handwork training and teaching of domestic science. This must prove a serious handicap to them when the battle of their future lives begins and continues. As private schools are at present constituted this technical instruction is practically impossible to them through a lack of conveniences, funds, and expert instructors. Through the courtesy of the managers of some of the technical schools boys and girls of thirteen years of age and over were admitted to technical instruction in years past. This year, however, the agelimit is fixed at fourteen for private schools. This regulation practically cuts off the opportunity, such as it was, they once had of receiving technical instruction. We hold that the boys and girls attending private schools should be accepted at technical schools at the same age and on the same terms as children who receive their primary education at public schools. This concession could not be reasonably construed into granting State aid to private schools, for the children would be taught in buildings owned by the Government and by masters who are already in the payment of and in the service of the State. Swimming capitation : I think we are entitled to advance a similar claim in the matter of swimming. To encourage children to acquire this art, which is universally admitted to be of paramount utility, the Government wdsely grants a capitation allowance to the children attending the State schools who comply with certain stipulations. This encouragement has been denied to the children attending private schools, though the managers of the latter would derive no pecuniary advantage whatever therefrom, as the money given in the guise of capitation would only suffice to pay for the use of the baths in which the children learn to swim, and give a small remuneration to masters engaged in instructing them. I may be allowed to remark that our Junior Cadet corps are provided willingly and free of cost with uniforms and rifles and with a target and ammunition for shooting practices. It seems strange and somewhat inconsistent that while the boys receive encouragement and assistance to play at
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soldiers the Government that grants both denies to these same boys the aid it gives to public-school children to induce and enable them to acquire an art which is of such great utility not only to .--themselves but not infrequently to others. In concluding these remarks may Ibe allowed to mention to the members of the Commission that the primary Catholic schools of this Dominion are in existence mainly through the fact that their teachers give their time and labours gratuitously. Hundreds of children are as a consequence educated annually up to the standard required by the public-school syllabus without cost to the Government. In setting out the above grievances no claim is made for anything that would benefit these teachers, either male or female, individually or collectively. A plea is proposed not for the teachers but for the taught, and I have full confidence that the members of this Commission will do in our regard what is right, and just, and helpful when the time -comes to embody their views regarding what they deem necessary or advisable to change or amend in the present educational system of the Dominion. 2. To Mr. Pirani.] In our schools there are a number of women teachers trained in the Wanganui Education District primary schools. 3. To Mr. Hogben.] I am aware that several of the Education Boards have admitted teachers of private schools to classes in woodwork and cookery. Our difficulty is to provide equipment and apparatus for these classes. If the Board trained our teachers, arid the Government supplied us with apparatus, we would be satisfied. 4. To the Chairman.] The Committee who had charge of the baths denied us the right of attending last year because the Government refused to give capitation for our children. 5. To Mr. Pirani.] The application was made to the Committee, but I consulted the officials of the Board. William Bruce examined on oath. (No. 150.) 1. To the Chairman.] I am the president of the School Committees Association, Wanganui Branch, and Chairman of the Wanganui School Committee. I desire to bring before you the findings of the recent conference of School Committees. Remit from the Tairoa School Committee: 1. "That it is desirable to extend the compulsory-attendance clause to over five miles, particularly in country districts." This remit did not produce much discussion, though the opinion was expressed that advantage was often taken of the three-mile concession, particularly in milking districts, where the children's labour was of so much value to the parents. 2. " That in the interest and welfare of the children it is desirable that strict censorship be exercised on the class of pictures shown, and that it should be enacted that no young children shall be allowed to attend picture-shows unless accompanied by parents or guardians." This motion produced a lengthy discussion, the general opinion being that a stricter system of censorship was required. Mr. John Jones and others spoke strongly in favour of the motion, which was taken in two parts, both of which were correct, with the exception of the words "under sixteen years," which were altered to read "young children." 3. "That School Committees and the associations be given ample opportunity to examine and discuss the Commission's report before it is dealt with by Parliament." 4. " That the disabilities of the settlers in our backblocks are such that more encouragement and consideration should be shown to them by the State. It is recommended that the Government arrange for the settlers in the backblocks to be granted the use of books free from the public libraries subsidized by the State, and such books to be delivered to and fro free of postage." 5. " That the Minister of Education be urged to arrange that the families in the backblocks who are out of reach of schools be provided with learning facilities by correspondence, and that itinerant teachers be appointed to visit periodically these families with a view of directing the studies of the children. Also that all correspondence, books, and requisites connected therewith be free of postage to and fro." 6. " That this conference heartily approves and indorses the recommendations of the Teachers' Institute, ' That the Department be asked to appoint a man and a woman as instructors in the schools on sex physiology on the lines adopted by the White Cross League of Australia.' ' 7. " That in the opinion of this association the school syllabus should have a common interpretation arrived at by a conference of Inspectors, That all subjects known as ' additional subjects ' should be struck out of the syllabus, except one from each standard approved by the conference of Inspectors, such additional subjects approved by the conference to be made compulsory subjects." 8. " That in the opinion of this conference the Government should find the whole cost of the additions to existing sites or new sites, as the Education Board's finances are not strong enough to bear half the cost of such purchases. Further, that it is impossible and unreasonable to expect the residents of either the country or the towns to bear the cost of these." 9. " That this conference views with serious apprehension the high proportions of uncertificated teachers in the service of the Board, this being about onethird of the total number employed. In our opinion the inducements offered to competent teachers in the country are far too inadequate, and we strongly recommend the Minister of Education to provide that the house allowances to head or sole teachers of Grades 1 to 4 respectively be increased as follows : Grade Ito £20, 2to £25, 3to £30, 4to £40." 10. "We strongly recommend that the salaries of the secondary assistants be at least equal to the present maximum of each grade." It was generally maintained that teachers were being "starved," and. that the men of ability were getting out of the service and entering other walks of life. The above were all passed at the School Committees' conference. 11. " That Education Boards with large backblock areas should be granted more liberal financial assistance than those in older-settled districts." 12. " That some more practical and just method of assessing teachers' salaries than the present system should be devised." If the present system is continued salaries should be based on the roll numbers of those making half-attendance, and in the backblock schools where the roads are frequently impassable for young people the attendance should be computed on the summer months only. 13. " The Wanganui Board is to be congratulated on its successful effort to improve the efficiency
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of the smaller country schools by appointment of an organizing Inspector." Splendid work is being done in this direction, and parents, I know, in the country much appreciate this forward step. Some of them, however, recommend that he should be allowed to spend more time instructing some of the inexperienced teachers. Appointment of teachers : Committees very rightly maintain that the personality and the moral influence of the man or woman who has control of the children for so long is of far more vital importance to the real welfare of the young people than the imparting of the ordinary school instruction, much as this is desired, and Committees claim that parents —whom they so directly represent —are the best judges; hence our contention that the consultation re appointments must be real and not theoretical. When asked for, all the information available for the Board members should be supplied to the Committees concerned. The Wanganui Board, which, I am pleased to say, is generally acknowledged to be the most progressive and up-to-date Board in the Dominion, has assumed that it has the power to transfer teachers, at least for the minor appointments. For the more important positions they have sent in the eligible and most qualified names to the Committees. The consultations in connection with appointments were on the whole satisfactory with us in the Wanganui Education District. I think there was only one case where serious friction occurred. I personally am satisfied, and I believe that our Committees generally would strongly support me in advocating that it would be in the best interest of our education system if the Boards had power to compulsorily transfer teachers, provided the full concurrence of the Committees concerned is obtained. If the system became general I am convinced that Committees would deal equitably with the teachers and loyally support the Boards. In nine out of ten cases where difficulties might arise, whether in the town or country, they could be readily adjusted by the local member of the Board, and where cases of deadlock became acute they could be settled by a committee of arbitrators —one member of the Board and one from the School Committees' Association, these., when necessary, to appoint a third party. Something on these lines would be a fair compromise, and would, I firmly believe, be approved by the Committees generally. We were inclined to resent the Board's actions at first, but gradually became reconciled to and acknowledged the advantages of that or some such scheme of promotion, which we believe will in the near future be adopted throughout the Dominion if the safeguards suggested are provided. If the system of transfers is generally adopted without real consultation being provided for, Committees will demand as an alternative to have more direct control of the election of members of the Boards by making the term two years instead of three, as at present. Half the members would thus be elected annually. In cases of transfer teachers should be recouped the expenses of removing. Be the letter from the Eltham District High School Committee, I would support their contention. The fact of their providing school swimmingbaths is an indication that they are practical and live men, but they should not be called on to make such continuous effort to pay the legitimate expenses of the school-work. In Wanganui we have four schools to provide for. Sub-committees, consisting of two members, are responsible for the general super-vision of each of these. They control the grounds, the ordering of fuel, and other minor matters. Besides these, a rota of two members visit all four schools and report monthly. The members are thus kept in close touch with the work of the schools. The Chairman visits each of the schools more or less frequently. Our cleaning and fuel accounts also are substantial, but with care we just about make ends meet. Special efforts have to be made to meet extra items. We strongly urge that the primary schools should be placed on the same footing as the District High School with regard to the subsidy of pound for pound. With regard to cleaning, we pay about 15s. per week for each school —£156 per annum —and give a free house to the caretaker of the District High School, for which we have to pay £10 rent. For the amount of work done £1 a week would not be too much remuneration, and we would also like to be in the position to provide ample disinfectants for the floors of the schools. We are now experimenting in this direction, but the cost is the serious obstacle. We have for years had the whole of the schools disinfected annually by the Health Department, and have just arranged for them to be done at each vacation. We are enabled to do this through the hearty co-operation of the local Health Officer. Playgrounds : I have always been a strong advocate for large and healthy playground spaces for the young people, and after inspection you gentlemen will, I think, admit that we have not altogether failed in this respect. The Education Board have endeavoured to loyally support us, but they have had such large calls throughout this developing district that they have not been able to do all they desired. I would take this opportunity to express the appreciation of many Committees up and down this coast of the Board's alertness and businesslike methods in dealing with these and other matters pertaining to the cause of education, both in the towns and country. At St. John's Infant School we have three-quarters of an acre; a quarter-acre was recently acquired, but more is needed. At the Queen's Park School we have about 3f acres given free by the Wanganui Borough Council. At the District High School we have 5 acres leased from the Collegiate School trustees for sixty years at the nominal rental of £5 per annum extending throughout the whole term, and at the new Central Infant School we have about If acres. As evidence of the wisdom of securing spacious areas before land becomes enhanced in value I would refer to the grant in the early days of 1 acre on the corner of Guyton Street and Victoria Avenue, which is now proving to be one of the most valuable properties in the business area of Wanganui. About two years ago the Board got an empowering Bill through Parliament enabling them to deal with this acre. They leased the whole of the ground in small ■areas, securing an annual rental of practically £1,000 for the first twenty-one years, with revaluation on the unimproved value in twenty-one-year periods. It is estimated that by the expiration of the first term the ground-rents will be at least double the present amount, thus providing a valuable endowment for all time. About 1\ aol ' es were leased from the Collegiate trustees at an annual rental of about £250 for the whole term. The Board has financed a .loan of about £15,000 with which they have erected these splendid buildings, the new Centra] Infant
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School and new Board offices, which latter they found necessary to erect through the expanding business. The State has thus been saved the granting of this £15,000. The secretary of the Board, I presume, will have acknowledged the handsome bequest of the late Dr. Rees, by the use of which they have been able to do so much for secondary and technical education in Wanganui. The teaching of swimming in our schools is a prominent feature. We have asked Mr. D. McFarlane, the chairman of the District High School Baths Committee, to refer to this. We have, as he will tell you, no less than four large and fully equipped baths in connection with the schools and colleges of the town, and besides these special concessions are made by the Borough Council for the use of the borough baths by the pupils of the Queen's Park School. No scholastic institution in the Dominion approaches the swimming-records of our two main schools under Mr. James Aitken and Mr. H. M. Payne respectively. We strongly recommend that the teaching of swimming and life-saving should be made compulsory throughout the Dominion. There are very few, if any, schools where a swimming-hole might not be found or, at any rate, provided at small cost. Only recently, by request, I sent particulars of small swimming-baths to a school in Central Taranaki. School-baths have been provided by the residents of Wanganui East, and also by those of Gonville, both suburbs of Wanganui, mainly for the benefit of the school-children. In Wanganui a movement is afoot to have another bath erected for the exclusive use of women and children. We strongly recommend that capitation be paid for all children who are beingtaught from the First Standard upwards, instead of only from the Fifth and Sixth Standards, as at present. Religious instruction in our schools : Some years ago, with the concurrence of the Board, the Ministers' Association were given permission to give religious instruction from 9 to 9.15 two days a week in the town schools. On two days the schools open for ordinary work at 9.15, and remain fifteen minutes later in the afternoon. Before granting the permission the Committee sent a circular to about eight hundred homes asking the parents to say whether or not they approved. Close on seven hundred—l speak from memory—replied, and of these 74 per cent, were in favour and 25 per cent, against, and 1 per cent, informal. It was understood that it was to be purely optional. These classes have been maintained in the two main schools since then. It is found that very few of the scholars absent themselves, and I hear on all hands that the efforts of the ministers and laymen who conduct the classes are much appreciated by the parents, and I know they are appreciated by the scholars. My own opinion is that our education system, good as it is, is in many respects incomplete and seriously lacking through the absence of direct religious instruction, with, of course, a conscience clause. I am familiar with the objections raised, but in view of the enormous issues involved these objections appear to me to be trivial and insincere. True character cannot be developed when the duty to God and our neighbour is practically ignored in the training of our young people. I am strongly in favour of the system of religious instruction that has been in force in the New South Wales schools for thirty years or so. lam perfectly satisfied that if the matter were referred to the people by referendum, as it should be, a very large majority would declare in favour of it. If this or some such similar system were adopted we would then lead in the first rank with other countries with our education system. I notice in the Press to-day a statement on this matter by Bishop Sprott, of Wellington, with which I entirely agree. There is a widespread conviction amongst employers that there is something seriously lacking in the cultivation and development of sound principles in the young life of the Dominion. Whether in shops, offices, industries, or in the country, one hears the complaint that the young are different to those of former years, and they fail to realize their full responsibility either to their parents or employers. In a recent strike not far from here a prominent participator openly and boldly asserted that they were out to get as much ■as they could for as little as they could. We know there are many exceptions, but still it does not require much insight to observe the pronounced tendency in the wrong direction, to counteract which there is urgent need for the effective teaching of Christian ethics in our schools. 2. To Mr. Wells.] The recommendation about extending the compulsory clause to cover a distance of five miles came from one of the backblock places up the Main Trunk line. I have since had letters from members of Committees, and they seem to indorse those remarks. I think the enforcing of the attendance of seven-year-old children from five miles could be left to the discretion of the Committees. In the milking districts some deliberately take advantage of the exemption clause. 3. To Mr. Pirani.] The adoption of the classification and promotion scheme would certainly prevent canvassing for positions. The proposal to lease the site in Guyton Street emanated from me, and the Board considered my proposals and adopted them.
Friday, sth July, 1912. Arthur Varney examined on oath. (No. 151.) 1. To the Chairman.] lam Vice-Principal of the Wanganui Technical School. I have been in the Wanganui Board's employ for seven years, having been Director of the old Technical School. As to educational status, I am a first-class certificated teacher under the English Board of Education, and an Associate of the College of Preceptors. I have been connected continuously with continuation and technical work in the Old Country and in New Zealand for the last seventeen years, being particularly interested in the training of apprentices and others who, by reason of circumstances, have been compelled to forego the advantages of a full primary-school course. We have in New Zealand excellent material to work upon. It has been stated that the weak spot in the system of continuation schools in France and in England lies in its failure to carry forward without break the intellectual and moral discipline commenced in the elementary day school,
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and this has undoubtedly been and is a weakness in our own system, which will to a certain extent be remedied by the application of the compulsory clause of the 1910 amendment of the Educatitm Act. We shall have to give our closest attention to the needs of those children who intend entering the various trades and industries with a view of earning their livelihood, and direct their studies, as far as we are able, to this end. The aim of our continuation school will be to prepare its pupils to efficiently discharge their duties to the State, and to increase their power and skill in whatever occupation they may choose as their life's work. On every hand we are hearing from employers that it is increasingly difficult to secure boys for the skilled trades. Unskilled employment at thirteen and fourteen with good money tempts most of our boys like a baited trap. They are drawn into a way of life which at seventeen or eighteen leaves them without a trade, and with the liabit of learning decreasing as the years fly hj. I am given to understand that the number of occupations for boys and girls requiring little or no preliminary training is on the increase, positions which do not equip the young people for after-life, and consequently in the long-run throw them on the unskilled workers' market, which is at present more overstocked than any of the skilled trades. We are continually meeting with and hearing of cases where adults are endeavouring to qualify themselves through an apprenticeship to earn the full wage of a journeyman. This should be remedied in the near future by active co-operation between parents, teachers, and employers for the purpose of placing the young people in those positions in life for which their natural tendencies fit them. The vocational course must become an integral part of our educational system. In it the boy destined for the trades must spend the early years of his adult life feeling his way, as it were, to the trade most suited to his temperament and capabilities. The first year must be given to a thorough grounding in the main essentials of a vocational course, such as mathematics and applied geometry, with instruction in the use of tools used by the carpenter, joiner, plumber, and engineer. During this preliminary course it should be possible to assist the lad into the right groove, and to start him upon a specialized course of instruction which will finally place him among the intelligent skilled workmen of the community. Employers are generally of opinion that the present Act with its compulsory clause will do much to increase the intelligence of and to better equip their employees for the battle of life. I trust that before long they will see their way to grant time off from work to those that spend their leisure time in a training that will make them better and more trustworthy servants. Personally I regret that the Government found it necessary to drop the suggested clause from the 1910 Bill which debited the employer with half the time spent by his apprentice at school. I think the Government itself might voluntarily show the way to outside employers and grant this concession to their telegraph messengers and workshop apprentices. I feel assured that by granting such a concession employers of labour will do much to solve the question of our continuation schools, in which we hope to do so much in return. A matter that would greatly assist in prolonging the day-school life of the pupils of oTir technical day schools would be the counting of a certain portion of that life towards apprenticeship. Thus a boy who spends three years (until seventeen) in a specialized course should have one year counted towards his apprenticeship; if he spends four years (until eighteen), two years should be deducted. Ido not think it would be wise to grant further allowances, as with four years' good grounding in the principles of his trade he can continue his studies in the evening to his further advantage. Insurance of buildings, and apparatus and maintenance :An annual grant ought to be made by the Department for the maintenance and insurance of technical school buildings. These items of expenditure are a drain on the school funds which the capitation cannot support. Capitation: The introduction of the group course with its increased capitation, has done something to alleviate our financial troubles, but we should be bankrupt in a few years were it not for assistance received from local bodies and private individuals. I have always contended that fees and capitation should He such as to enable us to make both ends meet without having recourse to special efforts, which should be set aside for special objects—school-grounds, pictures, library, &c. I consider that the minimum capitation for any class, either continuation or technical, should be 3d. per hour attendance. T believe implicitly in the group-course idea, but one difficulty at present is to induce students to take the full course and spend the requisite time to qualify for capitation under the regulations. T would suggest that clause 46c be amended to make it possible for all students who attend under the compulsory clause of the 1910 Education Act to qualify for the higher rate of capitation by allowing English mathematics to count in a four-hour course. On account of the highly specialized instruction, required in our day technical schools it is necessary that such schools should be paid at a higher rate of capitation than the ordinary secondary schools. Salaries rule much higher than in the latter class of school. I consider that £15 per capita is none too much as the minimum for this class of school, in the smaller towns at any rate. The larger centres are able to secure larger classes. Returns : The returns required by the Department in connection with our technical work are a contimial source of worry, but one is at a loss to suggest a lightening of the burden with the present regulations. I am of the opinion that the forms used in connection with manual instruction in the primary schools should be abolished, and that instead of the capitation as at present paid an annual grant in advance (the average, say, of the last two years) should be made to carry on the work throughout the year. An annual return of expenditure with a list of schools and the average attendance, accompanied by a certificate from the Inspectors certifying that the regulations have been complied with, should be a sufficient guarantee that the work is being well and economically carried out. The introduction of the group courses, and their varying rates of payment, has considerably complicated matters in connection with evening school returns and registration, and added to the already heavy burden. Before finality in the matter is reached the Department will have to place more trust in the Education Boards in the details of the work. I fail to see the necessity for the amount of detail asked for on form 1. Surely the Boards are capable of
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framing a syllabus of instruction and of judging the qualifications of teachers without reference Jo the Department for their sanction of such, especially as the pioneer work of the movement is now practically at an end. Then, again, why the necessity of notifying the Department of every minor alteration in our time-table? I think that form 2d might be abolished, and the recommendation of students for senior free places be left entirely in the hands of the Principals or Directors of the various technical schools in conjunction with the Board's Inspectors—practically the method adopted in district high schools. 2. To Mr. Wells.] With regard to the teaching of woodwork and cookery in the primary schools, I think it is of inestimable value. The boys must take some form of handwork, and I know of none other so valuable as training in wood. Our instructors do all that is possible to correlate the work with the primary-school work. I do not look upon this instruction in woodwork as a training for carpentry at all; it is simply a training of the hand and eye to measure and to use a tool correctly. A boy who has been through the course should be more valuable on entering a trade if he has been properly taught. I find that employers are anxious to get boys who have been through our Standard IV, V, and VI classes at the woodwork school. I do not think woodwork should be introduced before Standard V. In the larger schools 'Standard IV should take cardboard-modelling, and Standards V and VI would follow with a two-years course in wood. Cardboard work, I think, used in conjunction with geometry and with various science lessons is an admirable training. 3. To Mr. Kirk.] As to overlapping, I am not prepared to answer offhand whether I know of any. I wijl think it over and let you have an answer in writing. 4. To Mr. Davidson.] With regard to payment for handwork subjects in the primary schools, I think it would be much better if the Boards had a fixed amount granted to them annually, in the same way that a grant is made for the training of teachers. If the Board had a grant of £500 annually for handwork in the primary schools, I think the Inspectors would see that the regulations were carried out thoroughly. Our expenditure now under this heading is from £400 to £500. With respect to cookery, I fail to see any better method of payment than capitation. I speak only from the point of view of the returns that have to be made up. It would simplify the work of the office if the returns were abolished. We in Wanganui should have been in the Bankruptcy Court long ago if we had not approved of the granting of subsidies on sums raised locally. I would approve of the extension of that system as far as possible. I think that local bodies should have pow 7 er to rate for the upkeep of school buildings. I approve of local rating for higher education, technical and secondary. In a small centre like Wanganui it is absolutely necessary for the Director of Technical Instruction to make his own salary from outside of what the school can earn in the way of grants. If the money were raised by local rating, supplemented by grants from the Government, the complicated returns would not be needed. 5. To Mr. Hogben.] Do you not think the objection to capitation would be removed if the registers for manual classes in the public schools were practically the ordinary registers for the daily attendance of pupils at the school, and if the Boards were paid on the average attendance at the schools at which the Board's officers declared that instruction was given?— That would simplify matters. It would abolish all the returns. That would be quite satisfactory. 6. You referred to clause 46c : I presume you meant the revised one?— Yes. 7. What exactly is the amendment that you want there? You say, allow English to count as for four hours?—l say, allow English to count in a four-hours course. It is a six-hour course at present, and it is almost an impossibility to get students to attend three nights a week, and, therefore, as they must take English, I assume that under the compulsory clauses they could not possibly qualify for the high rate of capitation. 8. Give an example of one such course : what would it consist of?—An hour English, an hour practical mathematics, and two hours building-construction. This is to prevent the total time per week exceeding four hours. At present under the compulsory clause we have a certain number attending and taking English and mathematics, and we get l|d. an hour, according to the regulations, unless they take six hours. 9. You would not' allow English to count for two hours during the four, would you?—l think one hour would be sufficient. They can count two now out of six, but the trouble is to get the children for the six hours a week. We can only compel them to come for four hours. For the first year this would be paid at the rate of id., plus the amount the Department agreed to pay in addition for the free classes. If the compulsory classes will earn the extra 3d. we shall get more than we have been paid previously, but it never has been enough. I suggest that we be paid 4d., with the extra rate for the free classes. 10. What is the difficulty you find with regard to free places?—lt is the annual bringing into line of form 2n. We have to notify the Department of the examinations that have been set, the maximum marks given, and so on. ft is a long and cumbersome form. I think this form might be abolished. It might be sufficient without the extra clerical work that is entailed. 11. Would not there be a difficulty about day technical schools if the pupils attended courses of an evening?—l do not think there would he any difficulty. 12. Would you object in that case to the filling-up of a card such as is filled up for the freeplace pupils in the district high schools ? —Not at all; that would meet the case. 13. To the Chairman? I will let you know the number of instructors on the staff of the Technical College, the number employed outside the staff, the number of pupils, and the annual rate of payment of fees. The payments made to us by the Government and the amount received in fees are not sufficient to run the institution; we have to go about hat in hand, or get up concerts. Something should be done to obviate the Director having to do this. Nearly half his time is taken up with returns, kc, and worries as to the making of both ends meet
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George D. Braik further examined. (No. 152.) 1. Mr. Pirani.] Will you tell us what you know about a case that Mr. Low, I think, referred to, where the recommendation of the Inspector was set aside with regard to the promotion of teachers —Bowater's case? —There were two candidates fairly close together. One was a comparatively young man, the other was a man who had seen very long service under the Board; "and the whole of the circumstances being weighed it was considered that the experience and service of the elder man really ought in this instance to be a determining factor. This older man had a good unbroken record for a long series of years —half as long again as the other. The younger man, I think, had received promotion several times. 2. Is it the custom to take only the promotion list, without considering any other circumstances ?—The promotion list is certainly the first consideration : it is prima facie evidence that the next man for promotion is the teacher highest on the list. 3. Is it the opinion of the Education Board or the opinion of the Inspectors that is taken when the promotion list is not absolutely adhered to ?—lt is the opinion of the Board and the Inspectors; but the Board, of course, has the determination after careful investigation of all the circumstances. The Inspectors make the recommendation, and then the Board sets out, in the Inspectors' presence, its point of view; and it really is, after all, an arrangement between the Board and the Inspectors as to which is the best man for the position But that does not very often take place—very seldom indeed. 4. Have you known of many instances where the Board's decision in regard to the promotion of a teacher has been against the recommendation of the Inspectors? —I have known the Board to show very excellent reasons why the Inspectors' recommendation should be, at any rate, reconsidered, and possibly why it should be changed, but ordinarily the Inspectors' recommendation carries full weight. 5. With regard to the marks awarded to teachers, have you ever known an instance where any suggestion has been made by a member of the Board or the Chairman to alter or increase those marks —to alter them in any way? —Absolutely nothing of that kind has ever taken place. No suggestion of the kind has been made by a member of the Board to any of the Inspectors whatever. 6. With respect to the pay of infant-mistresses, do you think it would be a fair thing that a special classification should be given to those who do the infant-teaching in the higher-grade schools, apart altogether from the staff classification? —In view of the fact that the infant-teachers do require special qualifications of a somewhat exceptional kind I think that if they hold, say, the Froebel certificate they ought to receive special consideration, and if they are specially qualified they should receive consideration. 7. With regard to the organizer of school-work, do you think his work ought to be extended? —In this district we could do with three or four organizers, so that that points in the direction which you suggest. 8. In regard to the payment of teachers, do you think it would be an advantage if there were some system by which the work, of the older teachers could be recognized —say, a special payment for service in addition to their ordinary payment?—As teachers grow in experience I think that experience ought to be recognized, and that there should be an increment according to the number of years a teacher has served. With respect to the clause introduced into the Education Act recently providing for appeal in the case of the compulsory transfer of teachers, I believe its introduction, to be detrimental to the system of transfer and detrimental to the cause of education. It prevents free transfer in any case; it practically blocks transfer. As to the Taranaki Scholarships, over £9,000 has accumulated in the fund without being made use of. Steps are being taken now to check the deterioration in spoken English that you have heard about. In our last annual report this sentence appears : "With respect to the pupils' articulation and intonation, concerning which so much has been said in this and other districts, while we acknowledge the faults we at the same time hold that the remedies are more completely in the teachers' hands than ever before. At no time in the history of education has more attention been paid to the teaching of reading, and the teaching of reading is purely phonic; and if our pupils' speech is marked by slovenly articulation or false intonation the causes must be sought for either in overmastering home influences or in failure on the teacher's part to continue throughout the teaching course the practice of system so well begun in the lower classes." The. teachers are aware of the difficulties, and I believe are doing their utmost to check the habits that are complained of. I have here a report of the Imperial Education Conference. Now 7, we have an Imperial defence scheme, and we ought to have an Imperial Education Committee. In this report there is a paper on the simplification of the English spelling. Ihe idea would be to have something like the French Academy, and that the best educationists of the Empire should give their opinions, make up their minds, and send throughout all the dominions the standard pronunciation that we all ought to follow. With regard to handwork in the schools, we have several courses. One course is to take paper-folding in the lower classes. Then, in the lowerstandard classes it is used in conjunction with the teaching of geometry. In Standards 111 and IV we take carton-work or cardboard-modelling, which affords material for the application of the geometry taught. Then, in Standards V and VI we take woodwork. No course is taken as a course by itself, but always as a consistent part of the school-work related to every other subject. With regard to primary-school Inspectors examining and inspecting secondary schools there is a very serious difficulty, but if the Boards were larger we could have specialized ability for special purposes, and we should be able to command the services of men who would be perfectly well qualified to go into any secondary school in the Dominion. Concerning sex physiology, T have not had any direct evidence as to the services rendered by Mr. Bligh. It is very difficult indeed to come to any conclusion in the matter, but there is one thing which might, I think, be kept in mind : in connection with nature-study we should not be mealy-mouthed in talking about the sexes, say, in the animal world, to familiarize the children with the duties performed
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by the sexes. There is also the matter of the fertilization of plants and seeds. There it is sex physiology pure and simple, and the transition from that might possibly be made in a very natural way. With regard to the girls, I should like to see at every school a responsible day teacher, who would take the position of second assistant, and who would be a friend to the girls and whom the girls could trust and look to in this matter. As to the boys the difficulty is very great, and it is hard to make up one's mind. I should not like to see a stranger talking to them. It seems to me the only person that should speak is either the father or a minister of religion, and that whatever information is desired to be given should be imparted in a private talk with the boy. 9. How do the majority of district high school teachers view the rural course?— The majority have taken it up with a considerable amount of enthusiasm. In very few cases have we had any difficulty, so far as the teachers are concerned, in introducing the course. An attitude of passive resistance has been taken up in one or two instances —I think, perhaps, through a misunderstanding of the position. 10. You,suggest three months' training for teachers in special schools in view of the dearth of certificated teachers. Can you tell us anything about your experience of a short period of training of teachers? —This is simply making the best of a bad case. It would never do in any district except one such as this, where we are always on bed-rock regarding teachers. We do not know where to turn. The suggestion I make is that we should have in Wanganui a model school; that certain young people should be got who wish to become teachers and have sufficient educational qualifications and show likelihood of becoming useful teachers, and we should take these young people and give them a certain amount of training in a model school. For part of their time I should like to see them sent round to the town schools and the country schools to learn all that they can. And when the time comes for appointment we shall have, at any rate, some material that we can send to the country with some confidence. At present we send teachers to the country in fear and trembling. This idea is simply a proposal to get over a pressing difficulty in the meantime. 11. To Mr. Wells.] It is difficult to give a definite opinion as to whether the Dominion is getting good value for the money it spends on education. A good education is cheap at any money, and I think we are getting nearer and nearer to our moneys worth. I quite believe that the return is better to-day than it was ten years ago. 12. Can you suggest where any economy could be effected without impairing efficiency? —You might apply the principle of centralization. You might centralize the Training Colleges, for instance, and have one for the Dominion instead of four. I believe the greatest economy you could possibly effect would be to co-ordinate the different systems of education. You could save a vast deal of money by simply bringing the three types of inspection either under the Central Department or under sole administrative bodies of some kind. I think the Education Board might administer the different branches of education, and it is quite possible that that would result in considerable saving. 13. What do you think of the boys and girls we are turning out of the Sixth Standard now compared with those of fifteen years ago? —My impression is that the boys and girls we are turning out now are more intelligent, more alert, and more resourceful than those of fifteen years ago. I hardly think they could do as much work so well. I do not think, for instance, they could deal with matters of grammar so well; they would perhaps not be quite so logical in respect of English; but I am -absolutely certain they can write a very much freer and more readable composition exercise, and that their range of intelligence is much greater —to say nothing about their manual skill. Their arithmetic is perhaps not so accurate, nor can they sustain a train of reasoning in figures as the boys and girls used to do fifteen years ago; but I cannot see that these long reasonings in figures are desirable for children. 14. What in your opinion has been the effect on teachers of the grading scheme in operation here: has it promoted efficiency?—l am quite sure the effect has been entirely beneficial. I can most certainly recommend it to other education districts. 15. Do you think it would be possible to evolve a satisfactory promotion scheme for the Dominion ?—Yes. There are certain difficulties. 16. Do you think it impossible with the present number of education districts?—l believe it would be possible to get a good scheme, but I do not think it w 7 ould be possible to apply it fairly. In a smaller district than ours a promotion scheme might exist in name, but it could hardly be said to operate, because there is no scope. One of the difficulties would be that the standard would vary in different districts. I think I suggested the possibility of Inspectors interchanging. If you had larger administrative bodies and something like uniform salaries there would be no difficulty in their exchanging, just as you propose to exchange teachers. I have no doubt whatever that if the Dominion were divided into four or six education districts the result would be an improvement from the point of view of efficiency. We should also get a good deal nearer to what is desired in the way of a Dominion promotion scheme. With regard to moral teaching, the teachers draw up programmes of work. The work that is being done in this direction is satisfactory. Regarding free books, it is not an uncommon thing for parents to purchase the books themselves. If the books were obtainable in the market it would be much more common than it is. The effect of the issue of supplementary readers has been good, but I regard these rather as literary books than as ordinary school readers. I think that in rapidly growing schools an additional assistant might be supplied on the certificate of the Inspector that in his opinion the increase is going to be permanent. As to pupil-teachers going to the Training College, since this institution was opened in Wellington we have had very good representation there, but we_ are going from bad to worse now. I cannot see how we can possibly let the same number go this year as we did in previous years, owing to our using them as assistants. Regarding the value of the work done in the Training College, so far as infant-training is concerned the work is good, and after a little experience it generally tells. But we have one or two diffi-
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culties with these Training College students. One is in their power of control; it takes them a considerable time to control a class. I think the lot of the pupil-teacher is much better than it ■was twenty or twenty-five years ago. The weakness in power of control I think must be due to the fact that the students do not have an opportunity of teaching fairly large classes. 17. Do you think it would be a good thing if in the Training College centre teachers noted for "the excellence of their work were picked .out, and the trainees sent to watch and observe these teachers' methods? —Yes, I should say it would be a very excellent thing, provided they took their turn at teaching. They ought to have classes of about thirty or forty to deal with occasionally. 18. With regard to the criticism we have heard about the degradation of spoken English, do you think those remarks fully deserved?—l do not think they are deserved in their entirety. No doubt there is a tendency to slovenly speech, and we have had cases where the teachers have been guilty of setting a very bad example; but they all recognize it is desirable to keep the vowel sounds as pure as possible. It is a matter we have in hand. Apparently the same difficulty is being experienced all over the Empire. If we had now and again a bulletin sent round explaining the position, and we conveyed it to the teachers, I think real good would be done. We have not been able to do anything in this district in the way of education classes for teachers. 19. To Mr. Kirk.] In your statement you say that with respect to the school technical classes the earnings in cookery for 1910 were £431 and the expenses £527, and somewhat similar figures are quoted for 1911. In woodwork also the expenses are shown to aggregate more than the earnings. Can you tell us whether in these expenses there is included capital expenditure which will be non-recurring ?—The deficiency has been recurring more or less since I came to the district sixteen years and a half ago. The Board has simply been making it good—perhaps from other school handwork classes that did pay. 20. Can you give us an assurance that there is a reasonable attendance at each of the classes justifying the expenditure?—A class is not started unless it is likely to be a paying class. But sometimes it starts with good prospects and falls off. With regard to overlapping, my opinion is that in this district, apart from the Town of Wang-anui, there is no overlapping, because there cannot be. The pupils who go to the Palmerston North School could not travel to Wanganui. I think the Palmerston North School entirely justified. When it comes to expense of equipment, however, I think the matter ought to be watched very carefully. For instance, we have a very fine engineering school here, and such a school may be desired at other places, such as Dannevirke or Woodville. When it comes to this I think there should be scholarships, and the pupils go to where the equipment is. 21. To the Chairman.] If the control of all branches of education were conferred upon one body this body would be more likely to prevent overlapping and unnecessary expenditure in the direction I suggest. To this extent the proposed change is entirely desirable. 22. Mr. Kirk.] With regard to the promotion scheme, might it not happen that two or three teachers might be in the same rank ?—We have had cases where they came out equal in the first place—say, two equal in the first rank. Then it is just a matter of experience and service generally as to which would be preferred. 23. Canvassing might still be the final word in such a case, might it not? —We let the teachers know what their rank is and how they stand in the rank. The case you mention would be a very exceptional one. It is a theoretical possibility. 24. There is a possibility, is there not, that the scheme might fail a little there?—l believe that the right man would win, because the Board would see to it that the best thing was done. If two or three men desire a particular appointment, and are all of exactly the same rank, I do not see any reason why their names should not be sent to the Committee and the Committee have the deciding choice. It is a fact that the success of a promotion scheme depends largely upon the knowledge possessed by the Inspector of the teachers under him. 25. Do you think a good result would follow if a Dominion scheme were brought in, or would you rather favour the extension of the boundaries of education districts to such an extent that there might be three or four areas which could easily be worked by Inspectors in those respective ■areas, and each area have its own grading scheme, at any rate, in the meantime? —I think that is by a long way the better proposal. 26. Can you subscribe to this opinion : " One thing seems very clear, and it is this : children seem to lose their almost divine gift op imagination not long after they enter our schools. A few short years and the bright, imaginative, and talkative child of five is converted into the stilted, irresponsive, and circumscribed schoolboy whom we know so well. There must be something wrong somewhere, for such a development is quite unnatural and contrary to the true ideal of education"? —As a parent 1 am sorry to say there is something in it. After one's children go to school there is a different product altogether, but that is unavoidable. But I will say this : in the majority of infant departments I have any experience of the children are responsive and natural, and bright and intelligent. So far as the infant-teaching here is concerned, there is really nothing to blunt the finest susceptibilities of the pupil, but a good deal to develop them. At the same time, my experience is that a child that is sent to any school very soon loses that lovable simplicity and originality—he simply becomes conventional, and a good deal more cautious as to what he will say. 27. To Mr. Davidson,.] Under the Wauganui promotion scheme grading takes place at the end of the year. As soon in the year as possible each teacher knows his position on the list. We have had difficulties this year, and have agreed to let the promotion scheme be completed, so far as "we are concerned, after the advent of the Gazette —we have made up our minds to make the promotion date from July. I have here a copy of the grading-book itself [produced].. If there are two teachers in Grade i the first man knows he is first and the second man knows he is second. When appointments are being made each member of the Board has a copy of the exact entries in the book. The normal thing is that the teacher who has the highest number of marks gets the position. As to how often the rule is departed from, the only case I know is the one that was
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referred to a little while ago. In that case the marks of the teacher who got the position were seventy-three, while the marks of the teacher highest on the list were seventy-eight. The age of the younger man was thirty-six and of the other forty-seven. 28. Can you say how it was that the younger man got seventy-eight marks at thirty-six years of age, while the other man at forty-seven had only seventy-three? —Perhaps he was a more progressive teacher in some respects. The younger man did a good deal in the way of schoolgardening and work of that kind. Perhaps he showed more enterprise, and perhaps got a fewmore marks for environment; but I cannot say whether that is so. Ihe other man had occupied the same position for twenty years. The grounds on which the Board passed over the man with seventy-eight marks were perfectly clear; it was simply service that they considered and fitness —I mean so far as the man who got the appointment was concerned. 29. The Chairman.] Do you think, as Chief Inspector, that the Board on those grounds alone were justified in setting aside the deliberate and well-considered opinion of the inspectorial staff in respect to the applicant?— The Commission will not ask me to animadvert on my Board. My principle is perfectly clear. I would say that this grading-book ought to be the teachers' magna charta, and it has been. This is the only case, so far as I know, that may be quoted against it. 30. To Mr. Davidson.] If such cases occurred frequently the grading scheme would be so much waste paper. 31. To Mr. Hogben.] With regard to saving money by centralizing the Training Colleges I know that about half the students at each Training College receive boarding-allowance. Fifty at each college would mean that about two hundred in all -would receive boarding-allowance. At £30 a year this would come to £6,000. If all the training-college students were at one centre those who belonged to the other centres would have to get boarding-allowance. These would number 350. At £30 a year this would mean £10,500. Consequently £4,500 a year more would have to be paid in boarding-allowance. More normal schools would also be needed. With four hundred students four practising schools at least would be needed. I have really not worked out what it would cost in the way of staffing. The idea that economy might be effected in this way simply came into my mind when the question was asked. It is not a matter that I have worked out in detail at all. 32. Do you know that it was worked out when the matter first came before the Education Committee ?—No. 33. You say there is expensive engineering apparatus here, and that it would be better to make scholarships and bring students here from Palmerston, I understood? —Yes, or any of the other centres about. 34. For whom do these engineering classes here exist —for apprentices, future foremen, and managers ?—Ye*. 35. Would you propose to bring all the apparatus from Palmerston and other places?— Not for a moment. I would give equipment, so far as they are concerned. I was only referring to the day-school pupils; I did not think about the evening pupils. I think they should have the opportunity just as much as we have, and if they started a day school in some other department they should have that too. 36. Supposing you had one for apprentices, would it cost so much more for a day school — for the apparatus?—l should say it would. It would mean extra teaching and extra equipment, I should say. 37. That is to say, the day-work would be in advance of that done for apprentices?— Yes; it would be more systematic. 38. Would it be more advanced for day-school pupils than for apprentices of the third or fourth year? —It would depend on what those apprentices had done in their previous years. I say that day pupils of the third and fourth year would be very much more advanced than the apprentices. I have not reckoned the cost and the number of scholarships that could be provided, and so on. With regard to my suggestion that there should be special agricultural high schools, the advantage of such a school over an ordinary high school that took agriculture in its course would be that it w 7 ould set the industrial ideal more before the people than the secondary ideal. I think that an agricultural high school of fifty pupils would be more efficient than a secondary school with fifty in the agricultural course. The English and other subjects would be taken as for the purposes of the school, while ifthese subjects are taken as part of the course at the secondaryschool you have at once got the two ideals. Those taking the literary course in the secondary school have very different aims ahead of them. 39. You would make the English different? —So far different as to make it harmonize with the ideal of the school. Perhaps they do not do this in America. I say you can correlate the subjects better if you once lay down the aim of your school. I cannot see how a school with a double aim can be as efficient as a school with a single aim. 40. Are you aware that a good many schools in America that began with a single aim have developed into schools with a threefold aim ? —There is no doubt that each department will have its own aim in any school. 41. Supposing that a boy, having begun an agricultural course at the age of fourteen, changes his mind at age fifteen and a half, and his parents say he has made his final decision, are you going to take him away to another school?— That is the parent's lookout, and not the State's, I should say. 42. You still think that a special school is better than a secondary school that takes an agricultural course? —I think so. lam speaking from my experience of the schools where secondary work is done, and I know there is continual conflict between the two ideals. 43. You spoke of three months' training for teachers : would it not be much better to send those teachers for three months to be attached to a training college, and there receive instruction from teachers who were chosen, presumably, because they were model teachers? —I certainly do not think so, because the college has got its own duties to attend to.
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44, I mean, would you make it part of the college's duties to receive at any particular time a certain number? —I think it would be a much more expensive affair than to do it locally; it could be done for almost a nominal sum here. All you want is a teacher's salary in addition, and that for only, say, three months of the year. _ 45. Do you think that would cost less?—l think it would save expenses of transport, and, being a local affair, it would perhaps save expense of boarding, and so on. I think it would be equally efficient —perhaps more for our purpose. 46. With regard to the statement that spoken English is actually deteriorating now, have you got an opinion ? —I should say it is not deteriorating any more than it has : I should say it is not any worse than it was ten years ago. 47. Mr. Pirani.] With regard to those two teachers —Nairn and Bowater—and the question of promotion, in the classification list I notice that the one with the lower number of total marks is given five for certificate and the other ten : what is the meaning of that ?—The one had a C certificate and the other D. 48. The one with the lower total marks is graded eight for attention to environment and the other seven : is not attention to environment rather an important thing in a school close to a town ? —lt is very important in a rural school, and it is equally important in a town school. 49. The one with the lower marks had nine for discipline and the other eight: is not that an important point in rising to a larger school ? —Yes, very important. 50. I notice also that the one who was promoted was forty-seven years of age, and had been twenty-nine years in the one school and thirty-two years in the service; the other teacher was only thirty-six years of age, and had been eight years in the school and twenty-one years in the service : would that be another reason why preference was given to the former teacher in that instance as a special concession ? —That was one of the specific grounds. 51. The Chairman.] How long has the grading scheme been in operation in Wanganui?— Three years. 52. And that is the only case in which an exception has been made? —Yes. 53. Do you think it desirable that the course of instruction given in your engineering school here should have for its objective the Canterbury College School of Engineering?—We feel that it should lead up to that —that the boys should be encouraged to look forward to going to Canterbury College. 54. Would it not assist those boys to go there if the Government were to create liberal scholarships, tenable there?— Certainly. 55. Would not similarly the recognition by the Public Works Department of the best student of the year in your engineering workshop, by giving him the right to go into the Railway workshops of the Dominion, be advantageous?— That would also be advantageous. The following letter from Mr. Braik (with enclosures) was received subsequently and ordered to be added to Mr. Braik's evidence:— Dear Mr. Cohen, — Education Office, Wanganui, 9th July, 1912: In reply to yours of the 7th instant I have to make the following statement (which I take to be a continuation of my evidence) in re Mr. Bowater's transfer. You have submitted to you herewith an exact copy of the entries in the register in the year in which the transfer in question was made. The reason for the transfer was this : Mr. Kime, Al, a man of higher educational standing and efficiency marks than either of the men in question, proved to be so weak in discipline that a change became inevitable. But the Board had to consider the case of Mr. Kime, a man who had done faithful work for twenty-eight years, as well as the case of the man who was to fill his position. Mr. Nairn's case was carefully considered, but it was finally decided to transfer Mr. Bowater, first because it was thought that a transfer to Rongotea, a considerable township, would not greatly hurt Mr. Kime's feelings or reputation, and, second, because of the long and faithful service rendered by the Rongotea teacher to the Board. The accuracy of the entries sent you is attested by the Secretary. You merely ask for the entries, but I have taken the liberty of adding what I believe to be the motives of the Board in acting as it did. I have sent a copy of this letter to Mr. Pirani, who knows the circumstances in which the transfer was made. —Yours sincerely, Geo. D. Braik. Wanganui Education Board. — (Confidential Notice.) Memorandum for Mr. James Nairn, Mangatoki. The following are the entries in the Efficiency Register relating to yourself from Ist January, 1911. W. H. Swanger., Secretary.
Age, 36. Service, 21 years. In present position, 18 years. Transferred to Durie Hill, Ist January, 1912. Correct copy. 9th July, 1912. W. H. Swanger, Secretary.
Marks allotted out of 100 for: (6) Professional Skill. 3 . £ 60 -■■§! — o g di (a) 30 10 10 10 Position within [Rank. Name. Total. Grade. Rank. Service. Attention Teaching. 9 r S an " _ f .° 6 lzmg. plme. Environment. 10 20 10 'aim, James 10 25 9 8 7 10 9 78 V 2
G. D. BBAIK.]
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Wanganui Education Board. — (Confidential Notice.) Memorandum for Mr. C. H. T. Bowater, Rongotea. ~The following are the entries in the Efficiency Register relating to yourself from Ist January, 1911. W. H. Swanger, Secretary.
Age, 47. Service, 32 years. In present position, 29 years. Transferred to Gonville, Ist April, 1911. Correct copy. 9th July, 1912. W. H. Swanger, Secretary. Walter Henry Swanger examined on oath. (No. 153.) 1. To the Chairman.] I am Secretary of the Wanganui Education Board, and have held the position for about two years. Prior to that I was in the service of the Board, in its clerical department, for about fourteen years. I have prepared the following statement : I desire to make a few remarks regarding some matters on which, as Secretary of the Wanganui Education Board, I feel I am competent to express an opinion. The remarks under the various headings are brief, and merely indicate in what directions I consider improvements might be .effected. Just here I wish to say that since my appointment to my present position—two years ago—l have received every assistance and consideration at the hands of the Education Department. During that period applications made by the Board for grants for new buildings, additions to buildings, and for fittings, apparatus, &c, for technical instruction have been promptly and fairly dealt with in most cases, and in this connection this Board has very little to complain of. The vexatious delays in dealing with these applications which were at one time a considerable source of annoyance have practically disappeared. A better and clearer understanding seems to have sprung up between the Board and the Department, and altogether the relations may now be described as of the most pleasant nature. I venture to suggest that if more confidence were placed in the Boards by the Department, and more reliance placed on the returns supplied by the Board's officials, a great deal of the labour involved in the preparation of the departmental returns might be saved. Take, for instance, Return 1 (teachers' salaries) : this return is prepared early in the year, and a supplementary return is furnished at the end of each quarter. Then, at the end of the year another return (No. 7), containing almost the same information in regard to teachers and their salaries, is asked for. No. 7 seems to me to be quite unnecessary, because, as I said previously, it is practically a repetition of the returns furnished at the beginning of the year and at the end of each quarter. Every figure in it is checked by the Department, and if it is required and is to be checked in this way it might just as easily be prepared by the Department from the figures previously supplied. Return No. 6 : This return contains particulars of the expenditure on each school for the year under a number of headings. I do not see that this information can prove of much public interest. The total expenditure under each heading is shown in the annual statement of receipts and expenditure. Return Ha : This gives the names of all instructors of technical classes employed during the year, the names of the centres at which they taught, and the amount of each instructor's earnings for the year. A separate ledger account is kept by the Board for each centre at which technical classes are held, but not for each instructor, and the preparation of the return, therefore, means the expenditure of a deal of time and energy. So far as I am aware the return is not published, nor do I think it would prove of general interest if it were. In this district the return for last year contained the names of 101 instructors. Return No. 14: A portion of the information in this return is repeated year after year, and a good deal of it is also supplied quarterly. There seems to be unnecessary duplication here. The annual return might perhaps be retained, but I consider that the quarterly payments on account of scholarships should be made merely on the Board stating the amount expended on scholarships for the quarter. This would dispense with the quarterly claim. Quarterly return of attendance : The information required under the headings " Number according to Age and Classification " and " Number receiving Instruction in certain Subjects " is supplied by the teachers each quarter, and in the large schools must take a considerable time to prepare. As only the December quarter's figures are made use of, teachers should be permitted to omit the figures from the returns for the first three quarters. The necessity for obtaining the signature of the Chairmen of the School Committees to this return might be done away with. Quarterly summary of attendance returns : I consider that this form could be simplified by omitting, except in the last quarter's return, the columns relating to the number of teachers in each school. Ido not know why the Department requires the figures for each school for each quarter. Surely totals under the different headings would suffice. Of course, if it is considered necessary to keep a check on the Board's figures then T can understand why the return is wanted, but it is certainly duplicating the work if the Board has to record these figures and
Marks allotted out of 100 for: Name. (6) Profess iional Ski ill. 3 . a so s'll S" 2 ;<«i Service. aching. 30 10 10 Attention to Environment. 10 "a si o w K S3 rH Total. I Grade. Rank. Position within Rank. 10 Discipline. 20 10 Bowater, C. H. T. 10 24 8 9 73 V
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the Department has to do likewise. Returns in connection with manual and technical instruction : These entail an enormous amount of clerical work. The matter has already been dealt with by Mr. Varney, but for the information of members of the Commission I have brought with me the returns furnished by this Board for last year. Claims for subsidies on voluntary contributions in aid of technical classes and district high schools : These claims require to be accompanied by statutory declarations made by the Secretary of the Board. It is sometimes very inconvenient for the Secretary to have to leave his office and seek a Justice of the Peace. The time thus spent might be more profitably employed. A simple statement by the Secretary to the effect that the claim is in order is accepted in the case of claims for payment of Government grants amounting to large sums, for buildings, <fee. It seems to me such a certificate should suffice when claims for subsidies are made. This Board forwards many such claims in the course of a year. Monthly return of contributions to the Superannuation Fund : A statutory declaration is required to accompany this return each month. Precautions are, of course, taken to ensure the accuracy of the return before it is forwarded. Errors are liable to occur, but the fact that the return is accompanied by a statutory declaration is no guarantee that it is absolutely correct. A certificate signed by the Secretary should serve the purpose. The division of education districts into wards : The system by which the education districts are divided into wards does not meet with general favour, it being urged that it tends to set up parochialism. If the districts must be so divided some system other than on a basis of the average attendance should be instituted. Owing to the opening of new schools, the closing of others, and the increase and decrease in attendance, the boundaries of the wards have to be adjusted every year, the consequence being that the schools near the boundaries are liable to be transferred frequently from one ward to another. The division should be made on a geographical basis, and be left entirely to the Boards to arrange. In this district there are fifty-two schools in the Northern Ward, ninety-eight in the Central, and forty-nine in the Southern. It will be seen that the Central Ward contains almost one-half of the total number of schools. Appointment of probationers : The Board is empowered to appoint each year one probationer for each 1,200 or part of 1,200 children in yearly average attendance. Should any of those appointed resign during the year, or should the number of probationers be reduced from some other cause, the Board is prohibited from making appointments to fill the vacancies. The result is that fully qualified and desirable candidates are sometimes lost to the profession. The Board is of the opinion that permission to fill such vacancies should be granted so that the ranks could always be kept full. The Board is also of the opinion that the Department should permit probationers to be appointed as pupil-teachers. There is no regulations to prevent this being done, but the Department has intimated that it does not favour this course. Many candidates would be prepared to accept temporary .appointments as probationers in the hope of obtaining pupil-teacherships later on. A probationer, even though he has passed the Matriculation Examination, must commence at a salary of £20. A pupil-teacher who has passed the same examination receives during his first year a salary of .£45. It is natural, therefore, that appointments to the pupil-teacher ranks should be the more eagerly sought after. In this district the Board has been compelled to fill vacancies for pupil-teachers by appointing candidates not so highly qualified as some probationers appointed earlier in the year. Utilizing the services of training-college students during the college vacation : The Wellington Training College closes for the year on the 30th November and reopens towards the end of February. The Board would be very glad to utilize the services of some of the students during the vacation to fill temporary vacancies, and the students themselves are anxious to place their services at the disposal of the Board with a view to supplementing the very meagre allowance they receive. The Department, however, says that any money so earned cannot be paid in addition to the Training College allowance, the consequence being that these students are idle for three months on end when they might be earning a few pounds to help to carry them through the year, and the Board is at its wits' end to find teachers to fill the vacancies. The Department's reason for taking up this attitude is not clear. There seems to be nothing in the Act or regulations to prevent the students receiving payment for work done during their vacation. The extra cost to the country would be nil, and the advantages would be many if these students could be employed as suggested. Salaries of ex-Training-College students: A hardship is inflicted on some teachers by reason of the fact that during their stay at the Training College annual increments in the salaries they were receiving prior to entering the College are not provided for. A teacher who was receiving .£9O should, on re-entering the service, receive the three increments, making the salary £105. The adoption of this course would to a large extent remove the difficulty experienced in filling positions carrying a salary of Grade 1 (£9O to £120). Expenditure on installation of sewerage systems: The Board considers that when it becomes necessary to connect school buildings with sewerage systems grants should be made by the Department to cover the cost of the work. The Board is faced every year with expenditure of this kind, and although the matter has been frequently brought under the Department's notice application for grants have always been refused. The work should certainly be looked upon as "new work," and I think that when the conditions of expenditure from the maintenance grant were drawn up it was not contemplated that such expenditure should be a charge on this account. Purchase of land for school purposes : The whole cost of the purchase of land for school purposes should be borne by the Government. During the past five years and a half land to the value of £4,550 has been purchased by this Board. Towards the cost the Government granted £1,890, the' residents subscribed £500, £1,660 was received from the sale of land, and £500 was paid out of the Board's funds. It will be seen that the amount of the Board's share would have been over £2,000 but for the fact that it possessed a number of valuable sections not required for school purposes, and permission to sell these was given. Unfortunately such an opportunity is not likely to occur again. The need for additional playground accommodation at a number of
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schools is, however, always before the Board. For instance, the site of one of Wanganui's suburban schools, with an average attendance of 300, consists of 1 acre. On this is erected a school of four large rooms, shelter-sheds, out-offices, and swimming-baths, but owing to increased attendance two additional class-rooms are necessary. It is proposed to acquire an acre adjoining the site at a cost of £450. The Government will probably grant half this sum. A very large number of the parents are working-men and Government employees, who are not in a position to subscribe towards the cost, which means that the Board will have to face an expenditure of £225 on this school alone. The present site was purchased some years ago at a cost of £175, and paid out of the Board's Maintenance Fund. In country districts where sites have not been reserved the settlers are always willing to assist towards the cost of acquiring a suitable piece of land. In a number of instances sites of sufficient area have been handed over free of cost to the Board. This fact should be taken into consideration by the Government when applications for grants for the purpose of acquiring new sites or additions are made. I would like to point out also that in some instances the Government has not based its grants on the amounts which the owners required for the land, but on the valuations obtained by the Department. The Board, bow-ever, has been compelled to pay the prices asked by the owners. Centralization of country schools : In accordance with your request I submit herewith a map of the district showing the schools which, in the opinion of the Board's Inspectors, could be abolished and the children conveyed to central schools. A statement is also submitted showing —(1) The names of the schools which it is suggested might be abolished; (2) the present attendance; (3) the nature of the buildings; (4) the proposed central schools; (5) the present attendance at these schools. (Children are not being conveyed to any of these.) It might be possible to institute a conveyance system in some of these cases, but the Board is of opinion that the grant paid, where a special vehicle and driver have to be arranged for, is insufficient, and that the distances prescribed by the regulations (over three miles for children under ten, and over four miles for those over ten) are too great. The cost of conveyance depends to a large extent on the locality and on the distance the van has to run. If the matters of age and distance were eliminated, and an annual grant made to the Boards to be used for conveyance purposes only, I think the Boards, knowing local requirements and conditions, could be depended upon to make the best use of the money. If necessary, an annual return showing how the grant has been expended could be furnished, thus doing away with the present elaborate quarterly returns. Under this system at the end of the first year the grants would probably require revision, as it would be found that some districts w 7 ere receiving too little while the grants for others were too high. The Board is anxious to institute the system of conveyance in new districts, and the feasibility of introducing it is always inquired into when applications are made for the establishment of new schools. I have prepared the following table with .regard to the centralization of country schools :—
The supplying of school stationery: The regulations, under the amendment of the Act of 1910, require that School Committees shall pay the cost of school stationery. This being so, I consider that the Boards should purchase all stationery required for school use, and sell it to the Com-
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-6* e ° ■S =s Name of School. ' c Ji I . Building consists of 60 a J{ « o » EH H 3 !<i Proposed Central School. -6* a ° $ * <&% <B +» 60 a, b cS o 2 t. h 2 g Sff J^i I a a M 0 Remarks. _ __ _ Ohakea .. j 49 j School and residence Makowhai .. i 31 j Rented building .. Glen Oroua .. J 54 | School and residence Waitohi .. I 12 \ School Carnarvon . . 33 School Crofton . . 61 School Marton Side . . 45 j Rented building . . Greatford .. ! 16 | School and residence Mount View .. 35 ' School and residence Jackeytown . . 36 j School and residence - Matarawa .. 18 j School and residence River'ea .. 37 ' School and residence Sanson i ) - Rongotea I Marton D.H.S. I Longburn Fordell Kaponga Sanson .. 52 ! ) i ! | -Rongotea .. 129 I I I f i Marton D.H.S. 277 !! I I Longburn ... 68 Fordell .. j 60 Kaponga .. 118 3 2f 2 n 4 2 H 5 a* 3 Both schools on Foxton line. Tokaora .. 25 School and residence | Hawera D.H.S. Hawera D.H.S. 524 3 Eltham - Opunake Road. Hawera - Opunake Road. Ditto. Both on coachOtakeho .. j 60 j School and residence Raumai . . 27 School and residence Taonui .. 52 School and residence Mata .. i 27 j School .. Rotokare ' .. j 15 j School Kakaramea .. 50 School and residence Whenuakura . . 43 School and residence Manaia Pohangina Feilding D.H.S. ; Eltham D.H.S. 1 Patea D.H.S... i Manaia .. 127 Pohangina . . 58 3 3 road. Feilding D.H.S. j 401 | Eltham D.H.S. ! 315 j 'Patea D.H.S... 165-' i I I 2 4 3 3 2 I I
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mittees at cost price. I believe a considerable saving could be effected in this direction, more especially in connection with the country schools. School attendance and sanitary conveniences at schools: I have received the following letter from the Board's Truant and Sanitary Officer, which I might be permitted to read: " Dear Sir, —I would like you to bring before the Royal Commission" the fact that a number of boys under fourteen years are engaged by horse-trainers as jockeys, and- are frequently engaged at various race meetings, making it difficult to get at them. I had a case against one trainer at Haw 7 era. He stated in Court that the boy was apprenticed to him. He was fined the highest the law allows —10s. It would be a step in the right direction if a law was passed prohibiting all children between the ages of seven and fourteen years from attending racing and coursing meetings, thereby making it a police offence. Another point I would like you to put, before the Commission is that all children should be taught sanitary cleanliness, especially as regards the dry-earth system. Also that the vigorous use of the toothbrush be enforced. I have it from good authority that most ailments that children suffer from are due to neglect of the use of the tooth-brush. Another thing is the granting of exemptions by Chairmen of Committees. For instance, an exemption was granted by a Chairman to allow a boy to be absent every Friday to carry out parcels for one of the storekeepers in Palmerston North. The head teacher should always be consulted before an exemption is granted. Another is the wholesale granting of certificates by doctors without sufficient reason. One parent told me that he could have got a doctor's certificate although his child was not ill. Of course, he said it would not be fair, but he could get it. Sanitary drinking-taps : The fact that children drink from the same mug is very insanitary, and in. schools where they have a good water-service then sanitary taps should be supplied. I saw one of these taps fitted up in the Wellington Public Library, and it works with great success. —I am, &c, C. J. D. Skinner, Truant Officer." I have here the bundle of returns that I referred to in my statement in connection with manual and technical instruction. Here they are [bundle produced], and these are for one year only. 2. To Mr. Wells.] Personally I think the old ward system was a better one than the present. I do not think the present system has any advantage over the old one, and there is such an unequal division of the district. When land is required for a school the owner is approached very often through an outsider. A member of the Board living in the vicinity is asked to get an idea of the value of the land. I think the Board never pays more than is considered a reasonable price. The grant to the Committees in this district with respect to stationery is ss. 6d. It seems to be sufficient for the large schools, but too low for the very small ones. I think in the very large schools the pupils pay so-much a quarter and the Committee supply the stationery. In the country schools, I think, it is provided free in most cases. I think it would be a good thing if the Department obtained the stationery for the Dominion and supplied it to the Boards at cost price. The Wanganui Board would find no difficulty in distributing this stationery to the Committees. It would mean a considerable saving. The country schools purchase from the small country stores, and have to pay high prices. 3. To Mr. Pirani.} As to the system we adopt for the payment of salaries, practically all our teachers' salaries are paid through the branches of the Bank of New Zealand. At the beginning of the month we make out, a schedule for each branch, containing the name of the teacher and the amount to be placed to his credit. We hand in one cheque to the bank at Wanganui, and the bank distributes the. different amounts to its different branches. The teachers are advised at the beginning of the year of the amount of their monthly salary, and that salary does not differ, unless they are so advised, during the year. They write out a cheque at the beginning of each month for the amount of their salary, and present it at the nearest branch of the bank. They do not pay any exchange. We pay f per cent, exchange on the total amount for each branch, and I should say we must have reduced the cost of exchange by at least threefifths. In addition we save the stamp duty. Instead of issuing three or four hundred cheques every month we issue only one. Then there are no vouchers made out. Teachers need not attend at head office. They have no more difficulty in cashing their cheques than if they were Board's cheques. The system has worked very well in this district. There is no difficulty whatever in paying the salaries of teachers by the Ist of the month. Of course, we need to let the bank have the lists about three or four days before the end of the month. The salaries are always available at the bank on the Ist. The adoption of the system of promotion and appointment of teachers by transfer has made our advertising" account very low. Our general advertising last year, irrespective of calling for tenders, &c, was £54. Then, again, there is a very great saving in correspondence through the adoption of this system of promotion. Moreover, vacancies can be filled expeditiously. Under the old system it would take perhaps two months; now sometimes a transfer is made within three weeks. In rebuilding old schools, for the year 1911 we spent £379, while for this year our liabilities are heavy. The figures are as follows:—1911 : Paid, £379 7s. 1912: Liability—Patea, £3,000. less gratuity £865 = £2,135; Marton, £3,600, less gratuity £1,285 = £2,315 : total, £4,829 7s. This expenditure is to be spread over two years. On the horizon we have the following expenditure: Turakina School, £600; Aramoho School, £2,000. 4. Do you think, from your experience of finance, that it is a wise thing to put by money for rebuilding or to adopt the system that we follow—take the money out of current account, spreading it over a certain number of years?— Our system has worked very well. I do not altogether like the idea of putting a certain amount aside each year. I believe in meeting troubles as they come along. As to the proposed alteration of education districts, if Wanganui, Taranaki, and Hawke's Bav 7 were thrown into one district there would be 411 schools with an average attendance of 26,339. There are 545 schools, with an average attendance of 34,140, in the present Auckland District. If Wellington, Marlborough, Nelson, and Grey were made one district the number of schools would be 408, with an average attendance of 24,379. The figures
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I have given were those at the end of 1910. 1 have a map here showing the boundaries of the education districts in the North Island [produced]; also a map showing the proposed centralization '"of schools in this district [produced]. The central schools are marked with a double red line, and the schools proposed to be abolished are marked with a single red line. With regard to the requirements of the Department in the matter of returns, a very great strain is thrown on the staff of the Education Board at the end of the year and the beginning of the year. In our office it is a matter of practically three months' solid night-work. A great deal of this is caused by the Department's returns. Personally I do not see what use is made of a good deal of the information that is sent in; it does not appear in the Minister's report. I should say that on an average during this three months we work four nights a week. A great deal of this might be obviated by the adoption of simpler methods. 5. To Mr. Kirk.] In only one or two instances have Committees complained that they would prefer to have vacancies advertised. In many cases the Committees state in their letters that they prefer to leave the appointment in the hands of the Board, as they recognize that the Board is in a better position than they to judge who is the best teacher for the position. The Board writes to a teacher and asks him or her to apply. I think the teachers are satisfied with this. I do not think any teacher has suggested that vacancies should be advertised. I have not gone into the question of overlapping. The only instance of it that I know of is in the case of the Wanganui Technical College and the District High School here. The Education Board has power to take land under the Public Works Act, but we find that by the time we have paid costs it comes to as ifiuch as the owner asked in the first instance. We have succeeded on several occasions in inducing owners to reduce the price, but not down to the Department's valuation. It is the principle I was complaining of. 6. To Mr. Davidson.] As to Training College students being employed during their vacation, the Board believes it has the right to employ them; but when it was done some years ago the amount earned by those students was deducted from their allowances. These students are particularly anxious to get opportunities to practise in the schools. In some cases we have employed them where the salary has been greater than their allowance. As to whether it would cause the people in a district to take a greater interest in education if the local bodies were given power to rate for certain education purposes, I do not think it would make much difference, because —especially in the country schools—a considerable portion of the money spent in connection with school matters comes out of the pockets of the parents. In our district the parents contribute liberally towards metalling, fencing, drainage, &c. The Board gives a pound-for-pound subsidy in some instances. lam of opinion the State should extend to the primary schools the present system of subsidizing contributions in aid of district high schools. With respect to the overlapping that I mentioned, I consider the secondary department of the District High School is unnecessary. The Technical College is prepared to give the instruction which the pupils now attending the District High School are receiving. 7. To the Chairman,} I think it should suffice if, in the case of Return No. 1, the total amounts required to pay salaries in each grade were given, in the way you indicate on the slip of paper you hand to me. As to scholarships return, I think it should do if the number of scholarships, their value, and the rate paid per quarter were supplied; I have suggested something like that. With regard to the return respecting the conveyance of children, I believe that if the Boards were given an annual grant for conveyance purposes, and the expenditure of the grant left to the discretion of the Boards without any restrictions as to age and distance, the conveyance system would be more popular than it is at present, and would be the means of assisting the Boards in their efforts to prevent the multiplication of small schools situated within a short distance of one another. Three miles is too far to expect children of between five and ten years of age to walk to school on a country road, whereas in a well-settled district which possesses good roads the same distance would perhaps not be considered too great. In addition to the state of the roads the configuration of the country must be taken into consideration. A child under ten years who lives over three miles from the school, say, on a level road, is able to take advantage of the conveyance provided, whereas in another part of the district a child who has to travel two miles and three-quarters on a hilly road is compelled to walk. My point is that the Boards and their officers are acquainted with local conditions, and are in the best position to say in which cases an allowance should be prfiid and to fix upon the rate of payment. The Department cannot judge from a mere list of children, their ages, and the distances of their homes from the school whether the case is one in which an allowance should be made. 8. It has been suggested, if the returns are simplified as I suggest, that teachers might be overpaid and that fact not be discovered for a year or more. What is to prevent the Audit Department making a quarterly- or even a monthly investigation and discovering such an error much earlier? —There is nothing to prevent that being done. The receipts and payments on account of teachers' salaries for the year should balance, or nearly balance, and if there were any discrepancy it would be very quickly discovered—at the end of each quarter or month. Prior to the present Act coming into force the Boards were trusted in the matter of teachers' salaries; it was not necessary then to render these accounts. 9. As to applications for new schools, does your Board refer such applications to the Inspectors? —In every case. 10. And very often to a member of the Board who is resident in the district?— Yes. They are sometimes referred to the member of the Board first. After the Inspector has reported I think it is unnecessary for the Education Department to send another officer to the district. 11. When a school in Grade 3 rises into Grade 4, does your Board recognize the efficiency of the teacher in charge of such a school by replacing her by a male, or do you allow her to remain in her position so long as her teaching-powers prove to be unimpaired?—So long as such
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a teacher gives satisfaction she is not reduced in grade. In this district there are nine Grade 4 schools in charge of female teachers. Some of these teachers are recognized as being amongst tile best in the Board's employ. William Andrew examined on oath. (No. 154.) 1. To the Chairman.] I have occupied the position of applied art master of the Wanganui Technical School for fourteen years. The greatest difficulty I hive had to contend with has been the inability of the students to draw properly or even to discriminate between good and bad lines. A thorough course of drawing is absolutely necessary before a study of design, which is a gift possessed by few, can be undertaken. The regulations make it compulsory for us if we wish to earn the higher rate of capitation (3d. per hour attendance) to use designs originated by the pupils. This I contend, in the early portions of a pupil's course, is impossible, as he is unable either to draw correctly or originate designs suitable for use on the material chosen —wood, leather, or metal. It is a very easy matter to make on paper what is attractive to the eye, but this, when examined, is a failure as far as its adaptation to the material to be decorated is concerned. It is my opinion that if an applied art master is capable of teaching applied art subjects, he should be the one to instruct his students in the designing of their patterns, where there is no art master who has had a practical training in these subjects. We sometimes meet with students who can draw well but have no idea of construction, just as a musical student may be able to perform any piece of music and yet not be competent to compose a single melody. They say they have not the ability, the gift, to construct a tune fit to listen to. And so with design : it is a gift, and many students will thus fail to originate their own patterns. They must have assistance from one who understands the material in which they have to work. I think that in order to bring the best work, of the Dominion together for the purpose of mutual assistance an annual exhibition of work should be organized by the Department at the various centres. This would enable the students and teachers of our many technical schools to compare their work with what is done in other centres, as well as to educate the public in what can and is being done by the young people of the Dominion. At the same time conferences of technical school instructors should be held for the purpose of exchanging ideas and assisting each other in their work. I think that no teacher should be recognized for instruction unless he holds a certificate from some applied art master, who will testify to his ability in the craft and also in drawing. 2. To Mr. Kirk.] I make that last statement because I find, more particularly during these last few years, that teachers are recognized by the authorities who, to my mind, are not competent. William Lee Martin examined on oath. (No. 155.) 1. To the Chairman.] I think I should first of all explain the reason for my appearing before you. Some of the trade-unions have felt that their views should be placed before you, but, unfortunately, they misunderstood the notification with reference to the evidence you were prepared to receive. However, it now appears that you are desirous of hearing all classes, but it is too late to arrange for representation. Several have asked if I would appear and state the view generally held by them. I have consented to do so, but it would have been very much better had I been able to appear clothed with their definite authority. Still, I trust that my evidence will be none the less acceptable. I may say that I am the secretary of the local Painters' Union, with a membership of ninety-three. I am also closely identified with the labour movement. I have also had the honour of occupying a seat on the Committee attached to this College for the past four years. With reference to the broad question of education, we are content to leave this in the hands of those men who have devoted years to its study, and who are well qualified to deal with the question in the best interests of all concerned. But w 7 ith reference to technical education we can, I think, claim, without heing egotistical, to be equally qualified to express our opinions. During the four years I have been a member of the Technical Committee I have devoted a good deal of time to studying the more practical branches of technical education, and I confess that I am disappointed at the results attained. Here we have a splendid College fully equipped with all that is necessary for the training of our youths, and yet I am bold enough to say that, not one of the instructors will be prepared to admit that the results have been up to expectations. The fault does not lie with the with the instructors, for in both cases I think they are the equal of anything in the Dominion. Where, then, is the weakness? If you can discover this then you will have justified your existence as a Commission. I believe there are two factors at work militating against the success of the instructors. The first one is the controlling body, and here I am probably treading on dangerous ground; but my experience has taught me that either the control should be taken out of the hands of the Education Board and vested in a Board of Governors, or that instead of tire present Committee an advisory Board to act with the Education Board should be established. This Board I would suggest should consist of representatives from the masters and the employees —a labour department—with a chairman selected by the education authorities. Under this system I am sure very much better results would be achieved. The second fault lies with the material the instructors have to work upon. No instructor can get the best results from boys and girls who come to an evening class for two hours. In many instances the greater proportion of boys are not prepared to come at all, one or two probably through laziness, but the majority because they have had quite enough of work during the eight hours. There are, I admit, some bright boys who have an intense ambition to qualify themselves for responsible positions in after-life, and to them the College is a gold-mine; but the average boy requires some compulsion as well as some incentive to cause him to take seriously the question of technical education, and it is on these lines that we should develop in the future. For that reason we are in sympathy with the movement inaugurated by the Wanganui Education Board in connection with the continuation classes, but we do not consider that this is sufficient. Under
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the amended Act the Board, subject to certain exemptions, can compel the attendance at continuation classes of all boys and girls between the ages of fourteen and seventeen. So far so good; .-but I think it will be patent to each member of the Commission that the compulsion ceases just at that age when practical work is beginning. What will be the result? The boys and girls will go from the school into the workshop or other avenues of industry, and the instruction received will largely be forgotten. To achieve the best results we believe that attendance at technical classes should continue till the age of twenty-one. But we also believe that the time devoted should not be confined to the evening classes, but that the proposal as embodied in the Bill of 1910, introduced by the Hon. Mr. Fowlds, should be brought into operation : that is, that time off should be allowed these students, the State subsidizing the masters up to half time off. It is all very well to say that the boys themselves should recognize the advantages to be gained and therefore be prepared to deny themselves of their leisure evenings to attend the classes, but there is also an advantage to the employer, and we are quite satisfied that if once this system is put into operation it will repay the masters a hundredfold. Personally I have come into contact with many of the apprentices in the allied building trades, and almost without exception they are against the evening classes, and if left to themselves they will never attend, and in some cases their grounds of complaint appear reasonable. Take, for instance, an apprentice to the building trade : he starts work at 8 o'clock, after having to leave home half or three-quarters of an hour earlier. He knocks off at 5, and it takes him half or three-quarters of an hour to get home. He has been climbing about the building all day, carrying 4 in. by 2 in. and other heavy lumps of timber, besides being at the beck and call of three or four men, and yet we expect this boy to attend an evening class which largely consists of brain-work. We ask. them to concentrate their minds on abstruse problems of the finer points of building-construction at a time when they are mentally and physically unfit. The time for this study is when the brain is clear and fresh, and w 7 hen the physical activities are at their highest, and we can only get that by having classes for the boys during the daytime Mr. Crow, instructor in the engineering class, emphasizes this point in his evidence given before you when he says, " The effect of the night classes on the boys at his class was not good. He had found, especially in the summer-time, that they- were halfasleep after their hard day's work in the foundry, and the same applies to nearly all the evening classes. We are not an exception in this matter." Failing the introduction of day classes, then we consider that some incentive should be given to those who are prepared to attend the classes during their own time. We would suggest the introduction of certificates of competency. For example, supposing a boy is apprenticed to a trade for five years, and he attends the technical classes, say, for four years, then on the production of certificates for each year his indentures should terminate at the end of the fourth year. This would be an encouragement to the student as well as safeguarding the employer. We should consider this question from its broadest standpoint, and the responsibility of qualifying ones-self in any particular trade should not be left to the boys themselves, but the responsibility should be placed equally upon the State and the employer. Why should we deal with this great question in a manner different to other great questions? We compel the children to attend school so that they may be fitted for the battle of life; we compel our young men to train so that they will be ready should occasion arise to defend their country: why should we not compel our boys and girls to qualify for industrial life? Is there any sound or valid reason why this should be left to the whims and fancies of boys and girls who cannot be expected to view seriously the advantages to be gained? Every one of them represents an asset to the State, and it should be our duty to see that this asset is developed to the fullest extent, and it has become vitally necessary because of the progress other countries are making in industrial life. The battles of the future will not be fought on fields like Waterloo, but in the industrial workshop, and victory will rest with that nation which has developed the industrial activities of her people to the fullest extent. If older countries which are largely manufacturing centres can legislate in the direction I have indicated, then there should not be any insuperable barriers in our way. 2. To Mr. Wells.] If boys are compelled to attend I do not think we shall do much good during the evening, but during the daytime we shall be able to accomplish something. I would make the afternoon classes compulsory and the evening classes optional. 3. To Mr. Kirk.] I know that many men who have made names for themselves in law, divinity, and medicine have in their younger days w 7 orked hard during the day and studied at night, but these are not the great majority of the people. 4. To Mr. Hogben.] I am not aware of the Swiss certificate of competency that is given to workmen who have attended technical schools. 5. To the Chairman.] Trades-unionists would, I think, favour a system by which time spent in the school and time spent in the workshop shall count for apprentices.
Wellington, Monday, Bth July, 1912. Arthur Stanhope Aldrich examined on oath. (No. 156.) 1. The Chairman.] What is your position? —I am Chairman of the School Committee, and also principal of a private school, at South Makaretu, Hawke's Bay. 2. On what subjects do you wish to offer evidence? —With reference to the powers of School Committees. The Education Act gives the School Committees the control of educational matters in their districts, but as a matter of fact that control consists of the management of the cleaning of the school and the supplying of fuel. I am speaking of the system that prevails in Hawke's Bay. I have no knowdedge of what is done in other districts. I propose to make a detailed statement of the circumstances connected with the erection and maintaining of the school at South
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Makaretu. On the 11th June, 1910, the writer, accompanied by the Board school-teacher, visited Mr. Whittington, Chairman Hawke's Bay Education Board, in reference to a letter addressed teTthe Education Board, sent the previous month, asking that a school be erected in the South Makaretu district. With the letter was a sketch showing the position of the residences and the number of children at each. The matter was promised a careful consideration, and afterwards forms were sent-to the School Committee to fill in. Hearing nothing definite about the matter five of the householders requested the Chairman of the Committee to call a householders' meeting. A meeting was called for the 12th September, and on assembling the householders were astounded with the information that the Committee would not receive any recommendation as to the schoolsite from the householders. At this meeting a letter was received from Mr. Ellison offering 2 acres to the Board free. Subsequently the 2 acres was approved by a member of the Board. On the Bth May, 1911, several householders signed the following to the Education Board : " The majority of the householders being of opinion that the site selected for the school is far from being the most central, and that they have not had the opportunity of letting the Committee know their requirements, respectfully ask that the whole matter be brought up for consideration." No notice was taken of this request until the 12th August, when the Board, apparently coming to the conclusion that there were some grounds for dissatisfaction, sent Mr. Hill (Chief inspector) and Mr. Crawshaw (Secretary) to inquire into the matter. These men, of undoubted experience and of unimpeachable character, condemned the Ellison site and selected and procured a site in a central position, which is known as the Aldrich site. On the recommendation of these gentlemen the Education Board, at their meeting on the Ist September, decided to build on the Aldrich site. To a telegram sent to the Chairman of the Education Board by an advocate of the Ellison site Mr. Whittington replied as follows : "In reply to your telegram asking for delay in the erection of the South Makaretu School, I have to inform you that no good purpose could be served by granting your request. As you know, there has already been too much delay over the matter. The Board was practically unanimous over the change of site, and is not likely to reverse its decision." The land was surveyed by the Board, and the timber for the building was then stacked on the site. Soon after this the candidates for parliamentary honours began canvassing for support, and on such business Mr. Jull, candidate for Waipawa, and incidentally the brother-in-law of the Chairman of the Education Board, arrived in our locality on the 21st October. When at the end of our district I understand he was asked if he could use his influence to get the decision of the Board reversed. Three days afterwards Mr. Whittington, Chairman of the Education Board, drove up in a motor-car accompanied by Mr. Sheath, a member of the Board, with the result that the Board reversed its decision at a meeting held on the 27th October. When Messrs. Whittington and Sheath were returning from their tour of inspection the writer stopped them to say he trusted that there was no further trouble re the school-site. Mr. Whittington replied that they were not going to build on the Aldrich site. The writer then said that he hoped he would bear in mind the distance the children would have to go if he did not build there. . He replied, " I do not care twopence how far the children have to go; let their parents supply them with ponies." The writer called Mr. Sheath's attention to this extraordinary speech. On the 30th November a deputation consisting of six householders waited on the Board to protest against their reverting to the Ellison site, and Mr. Buchan offered, in the event of their objecting to the Aldrich site, owing to its not being flat, a level piece of land in the close vicinity. Messrs. Whittington, Sheath, and Roach drove out, but decided not to build in a central position. A numerously signed petition was then sent to the Acting Minister of Education. On the sth February, 1912, an extraordinary meeting of householders was held to elect three persons to fill vacancies on the Committee. At the subsequent meeting of the Committee, owing to the old building lent to the Board being no longer available, the Committee accepted the offer of a building for temporary use and removed the furniture thereto. The school was opened there next morning with an attendance of fourteen scholars. Ihe Board objected to the Committee using a building not sanctioned by them, and, notwithstanding full explanation of the Committee's difficulty, refused to allow their teacher to use the building. The parents, rather than allow the education of the children to be stopped for an indefinite time, placed a teacher temporarily in charge and thereby kept the school open. On the sth March, a month later, the Board's building was opened, ■and the teacher started with three pupils, which number has since increased to four. The residents who were in favour of a central srfe have permanently appointed a teacher in the building they had been temporarily using, and have a roll number of fourteen. The distances that these children would have to go daily, if sent to the building that the Board have insisted on placing at one end of the district, ranges from three to nine miles. If the school had been erected on a central site only one child would have to travel over four miles —that is, two miles in the morning and two to return. When the Committee resigned the Board appointed the agitator for the Ellison site as a Commissioner until the building was commenced, and then called for the election of three members of Committee only—that is, they placed the Commissioner and Mr. Ellison on the Committee without election. On the 30th April, 1912, as Chairman of the School Committee, I wrote to the Secretary of the Board as follows: "Dear Sir, —In the interests of education in this district the Committee desire to draw the Board's attention to the fact that they are maintaining a school here where the average attendance is below nine, and have done so for the last eight weeks; whereas there are fourteen scholars attending in a building kindly lent by a resident who require the services of a teacher. Of these eight are outside the compulsory distance from the Board's building, but if the Board allowed their teacher to instruct in the building that they could obtain all would be within the radius. The Committee are unanimous in requesting that the Board transfer the teacher to a place where the attendance justifies the appointment.— A. S. Aldbioh, Chairman School Committee." To this we received the following reply from the Board, dated Napier, 10th June: "The Chairman, School Committee, Makaretu South. —Appli-
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cation for removal of teacher to temporary school building : I have to inform you that your letter of 30th April was laid before the Board at its last meeting, when it was resolved that the application be declined. I may say that the Inspector reported that the building which you suggested should be used as a school building is quite unsuitable for the purpose, the lighting arrangements in particular being bad. —G. J. Crawshaw, Secretary." As to these lighting arrangements I may state that the building sanctioned by the Board is about 22 ft. by 20 ft., over thirty years old, and with two very small windows. It is such that in the winter the school had to be closed for three weeks owing to its draughty condition. One of the scholars had got pneumonia badly, and another slightly. The Committee removed the children to a building 30 ft. by 20 ft., with 10 ft. stud, lined throughout. It has four windows, each with nine panes, about 10 in. by 8 in., besides which the top of the door is glassed. The building may not be up to the requirements of a building for a new school, but it is unquestionably ten times as good as the building sanctioned by the Board. There is one other subject to which I wish to allude. Several town representatives have spoken in favour of the centralizing of schools. It is all very well for the towns to get as many scholars as they can, and undoubtedly it would be a great improvement for them; but, on the other hand, the country people do not want to send their children to the towms for, primary education. The cry is, " Keep the people on the land." The child is father to the man : why train him from his childhood to congregate in the towns, when lie is wanted where he was born? The biggest families are found in the country, and the country people are not rearing those families to increase the rolls of the schools in the neighbouring towns. 3. Mr. Pirani.] Do you think, from what you know of the administration of education, that it would be a bad thing if the Hawke's Bay District were abolished and one Education Board established stretching right across the Island, including the Wanganui, Taranaki, and Hawke's Bay Districts?—lt would do away with the political influence and wire-pulling. If the members of the Board would keep in mind that they represent- not only their own districts but the whole education district it would be a great advantage. 4. Do you not think there is less likely to be political influence in a large body than in a small one?—l suppose there would be. Robert Lee examined on oath. (No. 157.) 1. The Chairman.] You are Chairman of the Wellington Education Board?— Yes. I have held that office for over eight years. Prior to that I was a member of the Board, and at an earlier period Chief Inspector under the Board for twenty-eight years. 2. I understand that you have prepared a memorandum for the Commission?—l should like to say that what I have prepared is rather in the form of a precis, compressed to the smallest compass. Probably the Commission, in the course of their inquiries, have found emphasis laid on all the defects in the education system of the Dominion. Therefore I wish to state at the outset that I do not look upon the system as unsatisfactory by any means. On the contrary, I think it is a very fine system. What is more, I would say that I think those who have taken part in the building up of the system are entitled to very considerable respect on the part of the community. I am pleased to say that I have seen the progress of the system from the very beginning. I was one of those who were asked by Mr. Bowen, Minister of Education at the time of the institution of the system, to make suggestions as to the methods to be followed, so that I have taken very keen interest in it all along. My memorandum, numbered in paragraphs according to the paragraphs in the Commission's order of reference, is as follows : (1, 2.) Education in essential subjects should be liberally- maintained. A Council of Education should determine what is needed. This Council should be representative of all State educational institutions, and should appoint departmental officers, Principals of colleges, and Inspectors of Schools. (3, 5.) The scope of Education Boards should be enlarged— (a) By including secondary and technical schools under their control; (b) by giving head teachers a vote in the election of Board members; (c) by giving Boards unrestricted power to remove teachers; (d) by a reduction in the number of Boards to about eight. (4:) Manual and technical instruction would seriously suffer by dependence on precarious local taxation. (6, 11.) With universities and training colleges in operation there is no need for an annual examination of teachers, nor for the retention of the complex twenty grades of teachers' certificates. All that is needed is a certificate from an Inspector that a teacher is competent to conduct a small State school. College testimony would supply the rest of the teacher's credentials. (8.) There is danger that the agricultural instruction and rural course may degenerate into mere growing of crops; whereas it should be the aim of schools to teach the elements of chemistry, physics, and biology as applied to agriculture. (9.) University work should be specialized in vocation courses, and students should be allowed to choose subjects for which they have faculty and use. Secondary-school work should also be specialized, and fit in with the requirements of University classes. To secure solid groundwork in the essentials of primary-school work (reading, writing, composition, and arithmetic) all pupils in 'Standard IV should be examined in these subjects by an Inspector, and passed by him, before they are allowed to go into higher-grade work. In the later examination for free places proficiency in a few subjects chosen by the pupil should bo accepted. (10.) With our free-place system and the establishment of district high schools there is little need for other scholarships. (11.) A higher efficiency- in secondary schools would result if they were under more efficient inspection. Two Inspectors, thoroughly trained, should be set apart for this special work, and should visit secondary schools together, and their mission should be mainly to advise the head teacher as to the classification of the pupils and the methods of class-teaching. It is also most important that better provision should be made for the training of secondary teachers. Another question that has been remitted to me is that of safeguards for health and medical inspection. Tt has been found in some of our schools that the use of sawdust, with carbolic acid, for the last
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fifteen years has been very efficacious. Another question relates to the plans for buildings and school furniture, ft has been suggested that the Department should supply the Boards with plans for buildings in brick, concrete, and wood, as suggestions to the Boards for use in the erection of schools, and in "the same way plans of school furniture. I think these are very good ideas. 3. Mr. Davidson.] What is your opinion of the finished product leaving our primary schools to-day as compared with that of ten years ago?—lt is difficult, for me to answer, seeing that I have not been in close touch with the schools in late years. I can only answer from second-hand information. In some subjects I think the education is probably not quite so efficient. I think arithmetic does not receive the attention it used to receive, nor is the product so good. Probably a modification or simplification of the kind of arithmetic that would be required in the schools might lead to better results. A good deal has been done in arithmetic in the past which it is not desirable to continue in the future. I mean in regard to extent, methods, and quantities. 4. Do you think, that if the course in arithmetic were made more practical as well as simplified it would lead to better results?— Yes. I have taken a good deal of interest in this subject. In fact, I wrote several booklets on arithmetic some years ago, and have helped the Wellington Chamber of Commerce in instituting a system of examinations by what I call " ready methods." I think that kind of thing is capable of being introduced into the schools with very good results. 5. Will you tell us what you think of the present arrangements for the training of teachers? —I think we have done as much as could reasonably be expected of us in the time the system, has been in operation. Some very good work has been done. 6. Do you not think it would be an advantage if arrangements were come to for the students in the training college to have practice in some of the best city schools, particularly if the assistants in those schools were selected on account of their proficiency?—lf you mean that for the purpose of practice several schools in the neighbourhood of the college might be used, T do think it would be a good thing. 7. And if within a reasonable distance of the city there were sole-teacher or two-teacher schools well conducted, would it not be a good plan to allow students to get experience in those schools?— Yes. May I add that it has struck me very forcibly that too much of the time that should be devoted to training in the training college has to be spent in preparation for examinations. The training college is essentially a place yvhere the student should learn his business. What I have suggested is that the examination of teachers might to a large extent be done away with ; then the time of the student in the college could largely be given to training. 8. What would you fix as the minimum literary qualification?— What I have suggested is that the Inspector should decide whether a candidate for the position of teacher is competent to take charge of a school of a given size. T have not stated what the size should be. If he is competent to take charge of a small school he is possessed of all the fundamentals—he is well grounded in all that he has to teach. Then he should go to the training college to learn the principles of the profession, and he attends the University classes to work up for his degree. As soon as he satisfies the head of the training college or the professor of the University those officials can state in writing what work he has done. That is sufficient evidence of his capability. If he wants a very responsible post he could depend upon the evidence of his work at the University. 9. Would you have an entrance examination? —I have said that .the Inspector might give a certificate. I have done that over and over again for years —examined candidates for the position of schoolmaster and passed them. I simply held an examination for a couple of hours on a Saturday. By such a plan you can soon ascertain whether a man has sufficient knowledge to enable him to conduct a school. 10. Do you think the teaching profession is as popular as any other- branch of the Public Service? —I have an impression that the brainy young men of the Dominion are not taking kindly to the educational profession—that there is not quite sufficient inducement for them to do so. Nearly all other classes of work have risen in value, 'and it seems that in them there are more chances of success in life. The educational profession should attract the most brainy portion of our young men. I am only giving the impression I gather from general observation. I have not facts before me to substantiate it. 11. Are there many uncertificated teachers in your district?—We are better off in this respect than some other districts. We have no great trouble in finding qualified teachers. Now and then we may not get applications for some small school the first time it is advertised, but that does not often happen. 12. What is your system of appointing teachers?—We invite applications for the vacant post. Then we ask our Inspectors to select four candidates in order of merit. This list is brought before the Board, and for the most part their recommendations are followed. For myself, I always follow that advice; but now and then it has happened that a member of the Board has proposed that some other applicant should be substituted for one of those of the Inspectors' choice, and that has actually been done. 13. Is canvassing by teachers of members of the Board a common practice?—l hope it is not common, but there is something in it. 14. Would a Dominion scheme of promotion for teachers be in the general interests of education? —I see no particular reason for it. I do not think anything would be gained by it. One hears of distressed men, in, say, Westland, having difficulty in getting out, of their particular province; but T do not know that they would gain anything under a Dominion scheme. They would not be known so well out of their own district as within it. 15. Tf the number of Boards were reduced to six or eight, and a Dominion scheme were brought into operation under the reduced number, would not that remove the evils at present existing? —Very largely. That is one reason why I recommend it. A large Board has better
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promotion to offer to its teachers than a small one, because it has a larger area, and it is also less likely to be parochial in its character. 16. And in the enlarged districts would you not have a grading system such as those of Auckland and Wanganui brought into operation?—l think my previous suggestion disposes of that. Ido not favour any grading of teachers. 17. With- such large districts would it not be wise that the Board's Inspectors should grade the teachers in their service, and that when appointments were being made the teacher occupying the highest position on the list should be selected! —I do not agree with that. The qualifications of teachers vary. A teacher may disgrace himself in some way, or become enfeebled through illness, or other things may happen to affect the teacher's standing as an available quantity. We want to know him exactly as to his ability and powers at the time of the appointment, and that cannot be gathered from a list that may have been made years ago. 18. If the teachers were regraded annually, as is done in Auckland and Wanganui, would not that remove your objection?—l do not know that it would. I have not seen from the first the advantages that are said to arise from the grading of teachers. The grading itself is an arbitrary procedure to begin with. A man's qualifications deal with so many things—his experience of life, his personality, his belongings all round —even the educational qualities of his wife may come into the calculation. With all these things to be considered I do not see that grading would be a good thing. It would cause great heartburnings amongst the teachers, I should think. 19. If you are told that, since it was brought into operation in Auckland, the teachers there have been much more satisfied than formerly, would you be disposed to alter your opinion?—l do not go so far as to say that I would do a thing just to please a body of men. I would like to have the best applicant for a position regardless of .any other consideration. 20. Can you suggest any means of reducing the expenditure on education? —Some of the suggestions I already made would largely reduce the expenditure. For instance, doing away with the annual examination of teachers would make a great reduction. 21. Then there would be reduced cost of administration from the enlargement of the Boards' districts? —I think that would reduce the expenditure. The expenditure on administration in this district, which is an average district, or perhaps a little larger than the average, is under 4 per cent., and I see that some of the small districts run up to double that percentage. 22. What would you suggest as the constitution of the Council of Education? —T think the Minister of Education should be its presiding officer, and that there should be on it the InspectorGeneral of Schools, a representative of the training colleges—such a man as Professor White would be splendidly fitted for the position—and a representative of the secondary schools, while the primary schools should have at least one member, if not two. 23. The Chairman.} Would you have those representatives elected through the Educational Institute or by the whole body of teachers? —I would be satisfied to let the Teachers' Institute elect them. It now represents a very large proportion of the teachers. Then, of course, the Education Boards should have a representative. I do not say that all these should necessarily be on the Council, but I am following out my idea that all such educational institutions should be represented. That would mean the Government in the first place, the Department in the second, and educational institutions in the third place. 24. Would you give colleges separate representation?—l would not make the Council too large, and it would be a question whether you could afford to give them separate representation. 25. Would you say a Council not exceeding tw 7 elve?—I do not care to fix the number precisely. I have not thought the matter out closely. But I do say that the Council might change its venue. It might sit in Wellington one year, and in other centres in turn. 26. Just as the Senate of the University now does? —I have not touched on the question of the University. 27. Mr. Davidson.] But would you not have the University represented in order to complete the system? —Yes, I think so —perhaps a representative of the professors. 28. Mr. Pirani.] What training would you say the secondary-school Inspectors should have? It would be well if you could get good trained men —perhaps men from Home, if they are obtainable. If not, of course, the Inspectors should have passed through our training colleges, and should also have had service in a secondary school; but the headmaster of a secondary school, who is himself a trained man and through the training college, or the retired Principal of a training college, should be very suitable. I am not suggesting that we should set up a training college to train these men. When I use the word " training " in this sense, I mean that their life should be such as to train them. 29. Should they not have a thorough knowledge of the primary-school system as well? — I think so, because the training for the primary schools and the training for the secondary schools are in many points identical. Certain principles of teaching are common to both. 30. With regard to the training colleges as at present existing, do you think that the Bl students get sufficient training in individually conducting classes in the model school? —I do not. 31. Probably that is what is lacking in our training colleges?— Largely. What I have justsaid bears that out. We have not time for it. 32. Mr. Kirk.] Do you know of any instances of unnecessary overlapping in your district? There is not much. In fact, Ido not think there is serious overlapping anywhere. If it exists it is as between the technical school and the secondary schools —for instance, in the Latin classes; but, as Latin cannot be taken in the daytime by the pupils attending the evening classes at the technical schools, you could not really call that overlapping. My answer to your question would be No. 33. Are such subjects as shorthand and typewriting taught in the secondary schools of Wellington? —They are only taught in the Technical School
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34. Would you approve of such subjects being taught in the secondary schools?— No. I dQ.-not think we should overcrowd the syllabus. The subjects could very well be excluded. 35. Is there, in your opinion, any necessity for the institution of compulsory continuation classes?—l am not in possession of much information on the subject; but the tendency of the thought of the day is that the time allowed for solid education is not sufficient —that the pupils should remain at school for a year or two longer. With so many matters in hand it is difficult to give them sufficient time, especially in Standards V and VI, to master the subjects. We should do better if we went more slowly. No one but the Inspector seems to realize the necessity for thorough work—not attempting too much, but doing a little thoroughly. We as Inspectors have had to din this principle into the ears of teachers for years and years, and still the old plan obtains and pupils are apparently hurried through their "work too fast. Take such a subject as arithmetic : it would be very much better if more examples were -worked, and worked rapidly, so that the scholars could acquire facility not only to be able to do the work, but to do it quickly. That can only be attained by an immense amount of practice. 36. Apart from the Fifth and Sixth Standards, do you know that great leakage takes place through boys and girls leaving school after the Fourth Standard? —I am strongly of opinion that at some point in the standard work there may be what I call a parting of the ways. When the pupil has passed the Fourth Standard, and has thoroughly satisfied the Inspectors that he is well grounded in the essential subjects, he should certainly be allowed to take up other subjects in the Fifth and 'Sixth Standards —he should be allowed to try the whole programme; but it is too much to expect him to be good in all the subjects. The teachers could find out what a boy is capable of doing well —what his subjects and what his faculties are —and then, before he comes up for his proficiency certificate, he should have a choice of subjects in which to go up for the certificate. Suppose there are a dozen subjects :if he brings up six or eight of them, and satisfies the examiners in those subjects, he should be specialized in them. I want to ses all schools afford scope for specialization, so that the pupils may take up the subjects for wdiich they have faculty and use. Some boys would take subjects suitable for the special work they are going in for. For instance, if a boy is going to be an engineer, he must know his arithmetic well, as he could not afford to pass that over; and if he has no faculty in arithmetic, and his faculty is in composition, he should follow his bent. If he has done that, when he comes to the secondary school he can still be on the line of specialization vdien he goes for his degree. 37. The Chairman.] I take it that you would specialize from Standard V right up?— Yes, only that I would begin at the top and work downwards. Specialize the University, and then the secondary schools will prepare for the University, and the primary schools for the secondary. It is only by getting the University on these lines that you will get the secondary schools to work up to them. Only this week I heard of an extraordinary case —that of a boy who was remarkably clever in chemistry. He went to the College and took up chemistry, but the College changed its plans and he took up physics. Then another alteration in the College scheme was made, and they put him into mechanics, which he does not want. That boy might have been a Faraday if he had been allowed to go on with his studies in chemistry; but his chance is thrown away. He has been put into a subject that he does not care for, and has no use for. 38. On this question of continuation schools, will you cast your mind over the moral tone of the schools, and take into consideration the fact of the leakage from the Fourth Standard ? Considering the continuation schools quite apart from their educational value, do you think from the corrective point of view there is necessity for them?—To my mind it is necessary to have continuation schools, and then those who filter through at Standard IV could be looked after in those classes. 39. Mr, Kirk.] Are you satisfied that the playgrounds about your primary- schools are adequate? —It has been my aim for thirty years to get larger areas for playgrounds. 40. Is it possible to do that? —We are doing it in our education district almost every month. Only last month we bought, 2 acres —one at Taueru, and one in a district along the Manawatu line —for the purpose of enlarging the existing playgrounds. 41. Mr. Wells.] In the case of a vacancy occurring the practice is to send on four names? —Yes. 42. Arranged in order of merit?— Yes. 43. Has it ever come to your knowdedge that the last name has been selected rather than the first?— Yes. 44. Then under that system merit is not always rewarded? —Not strictly. 45. Is that not a weak point?— The Legislature has ruled that we should send on four names in the order of merit. 46. Is it not a fact that you may send only one name?— Yes. We think the intention of the Legislature was that four should go forward, and that the School Committees should have a choice in the matter. 47. Do you not think that if the names go forward in order of merit, and then the least worthy is chosen, it must be very discouraging to school-teachers?— Yes. 48. Do you not think that if your Inspectors met annually and graded the teachers from the different points of efficiency of teaching, length of service, personality, attention to environment, and so on, and arranged them as far as is humanly possible in order of merit, and that the top name was always selected, merit would have a better chance of being rewarded?—l do not know that it would. I have answered that already in a measure. It does not appeal to me. 49. If the teachers in a very large district have indorsed that system time after time, does that not go to show the system has merits? —That may or may not be. 50. With regard to the Council of Education of which you spoke, would you make it an advisory or a directory body?— That is the question,
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51. It is a very important question? —I think I should make it a directory body. Of course, 1 could not imagine a Council composed of what you might term the educational intelligence of the community making an appointment, say, of Inspector, other than in conjunction with the Board of Education. My reason for recommending that the Council should appoint Inspectors is just the same as the reason we have for making appointments by the Board instead of by School Committees. 52. Supposing you make it a directory body, how will it fit in with Ministerial responsibility? —I take it to be a good thing to separate it to some extent from Ministerial responsibility. 53. Would you make the Council of Education responsible to Parliament and not to the Minister ? —Largely, yes. 54. In speaking of the want of popularity of the service, I take it you think the remuneration offered is not sufficient to draw the best men into the profession ? —I think the present remuneration in the larger schools is fairly satisfactory; but it would be well if in the smaller schools the salary was higher and a few other accessories were taken into account —for instance, a comfortable cottage provided, with the necessary equipment to enable people to live decently. Then I think it would probably be worth while for more men to go into the service in these small schools. I think there are too many women in the service, for many reasons. Though women make excellent teachers, still, they have not the endurance of men. 1 will give you an instance of what I mean : every month we have applications from about ten teachers for leave of absence, generally because of overstrain of some sort, and they are nearly all women. 55. Then you would make the remuneration better at the starting-point?— Yes; I would simply attach a little more salary to the small schools and otherwise make them more attractive to men. 56. Are there any cases in this district where the house is not equal in value to the house allowance that would be allowed if there was no residence? —I do not think so. 57. Is the disinfection of schools carried out regularly : has your Board any regulations on the subject?—No specific directions; but we think it would be wise to have some general regulation common to the Dominion. 58. What is your system in this district with regard to the supply of stationery for school purposes? —The School Committees obtain the stationery; we do not supply it. We have been supplying paper under the new regulations. 59. Does each School Committee supply these requisites, such as pens, ink, &c, free to the pupils?—l think so. 60. Do you not think it could be done more cheaply if the Board were to import this stationery for the district and distribute it to the Committees? —It might be so. I have not gone into that matter. 61. The Chairman?, Could it riot be done more cheaply still if the Department imported it for all the Boards, and distributed it to the Boards at prime cost?—Of course. We know in all matters that method of supply is much cheaper. 62. Mr. Wells.] Do you not think there is an opportunity for economy there?—Yes. 63. Is it the custom in this district for your fnspectors to inspect private schools?— Only the Roman Catholic schools. 64. What about the ordinary private schools? —They are not inspected. 65. Do you grant an exemption to pupils attending them? —Yes. 66. Do you not think it is very advisable in the interests of the community that all schools should be subject to inspection?—l am a little doubtful about that. It depends on what the inspection is like. 67. Inspection by the Board's Inspectors? —Yes; but if an Inspector were to insist on Stateschool methods, private-school teachers might have strong reasons for not following them. 68. Still, it should not be difficult to test the value of the teaching given?—l do not know. Private schools are more or less in competition with each other. Ido not. know that it would be fair to them to publish such matters. 69. The Cihairman.} Not to do that, but to inspect them in such a way as to satisfy the public at large that the instruction is wholesome?—l can imagine an excellent private school which would not satisfy the Inspector. That is all I can say. 70. Mr. Wells? Do you think the salaries paid to the assistants in the secondary departments of the district high schools are sufficient?—Well, Ido not think they are quite sufficient. I think the salaries of assistants in secondary schools are much too low. I will take Wellington College : the headmaster is well remunerated, but nearly all the undermasters are badly paid. 71. Do you think your Inspectors are sufficiently paid for the work they have to do? — Yes, I think the salaries are pretty good. 72. How do they range here? —From £400 to £550, with travelling-allow 7 ance. 73. That is less than the headmaster of a large school receives with his house aUWance?— Yes, in the newest appointments. 74. Would you not say that as a general rule the Inspectors should draw larger salaries than any headmaster? —Yes. 75. Mr. Hogben.] Are you aware that a good many suggestions as to methods of teaching have been made by the Inspectors who have inspected the Wellington College?— No. I may say I am making no reflection on the past inspection of the secondary schools. 76. Are you aware that ten or twelve years ago it was recommended that the teaching of science should be properly provided for at Wellington College?— Yes. 77. Are y 7 ou aware that until quite lately it had not been properly provided for? —Yes. 78. So it was not because of want of suggestion?—No, that was a very good suggestion.
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79. Are you aware that the Wellington Boys' College-was inspected last year?— No. The position is this : 1 find that the assistant teachers in the secondary schools have not had any training, and sometimes they are taken immediately from their class-work and put to teaching. One instance of the kind occurred in Wellington College last year, and I can see that unless somewhat frequent inspection is made and many suggestions are given these teachers may learn their business at the expense of the classes. 80. Of course, you would agree that for such a suggestion to have effect it must be supported by the Principals of the colleges? —Yes. 81. It needs the concurrence of the Inspector and the Principal of the secondary school?— Yes. 82. You suggested that a minimum certificate to a teacher should be given on the certificate of the Inspector ? —Yes. 83. Do you think that such a certificate given in New Zealand would be recognized in England? —I cannot say. It might not. I have no objection to a stated examination of the kind. I have just stated the simplest solution of the difficulty. 84. Do you think it is desirable that the minimum certificate should be recognized all over the Empire?—l do not see any necessity for that. The conditions vary so much in the different parts of the Empire. 85. The minimum is the difficulty? —You have to get all the parts of the Empire to fall in with it. 86. Do you not know that they agreed to the principle of that at the Imperial Conference? —No. That being the case, I would be satisfied with a minimum general to the Empire. 87. You did not know that we were prepared to move towards that and get the conditions the same? —I did not. 88. Do you see an advantage to our primary schools resulting from that?—l have never been a great contender for uniformity. This is uniformity of something common to the Empire, and the conditions seem to me to vary so much in the different Dominions that I do not know that much will be gained by it. 89. You mean uniformity of standard? —Yes. 90. It does not follow that there will be uniformity in character, does it? —No. One very often hears the argument as to having uniformity throughout the Dominion, and it does not appeal to me at all. 91. At all events, it does not appeal to you that there should be a minimum standard all over the Empire?— No. 92. Have you considered the desirability of altering the mode of election of Education Boards? Have you formed any conclusion as to the working of what is know 7 n as the ward system as against the old provincial system?—l do not think there is anything gained by the ward system. 93. And, nothing having been gained, would you advocate a return to the larger electorate? —I think so. 94. Would you suggest proportional representation as being calculated to give to the State the services of a better class of men?—l think if there were only eight large and important Boards in the Dominion the ward system should fall through. It would be better to make the election for the whole district. 95. With your experience, are you of opinion that it would be better to intrust these larger Boards with the sole control of education —primary, secondary, and technical —in each district? —Yes. 96. And leading from that I understand you to say you favour the institution of a national Council of Education?— Yes, and that the Council should be principally directory in character, not merely consultative. Thomas Reid Fleming examined on oath. (No. 158.) 1. The Chairman.] You are Chief Inspector of Schools under the Wellington Education Board ?—Yes. I have held that position about ten years, and I have been an Inspector for about twenty-two years. My teaching experience has been in secondary schools, principally at Wellington College. 2. What is your rank in the Department?—lt is Al. I am an M.A. and LL.B. of the New Zealand University. 3. Have you any statement to make to the Commission on the subject-matter of our inquiry? —Yes. I. wish first to deal with salaries. While thinking that the salaries paid to all teachers are inadequate, we consider there are several classes of teachers who certainly deserve immediate consideration if greater efficiency is to be aimed at. (1.) The sole teacher in a small country school of, say, Grades 1 and 2 should be better paid, and better provision should be made for his comfort. fn addition to giving an increase of salary this might be done by providing a suitable residence and furnishing it to some extent. (2.) The secondary teachers in the district high schools, more especially in those schools where a rural course is being attempted, should receive much higher salaries. In some classes where a teacher is compelled to teach languages, mathematics, and science the training and qualifications required deserve higher remuneration. It is difficult to obtain teachers efficient in science-teaching, and when one is found he is immediately snapped up by some institution able to offer a higher salary. A salary of Grade 4 is not sufficient for a teacher qualified to carry out a rural-course programme. Superannuation : The method of computing the average salary for a teacher should be the same as in other branches of the Public Service, where such average means the average of the three years in which the highest salary is paid. We have had cases where teachers in a fairly high grade have been perfectly willing to go to a lower-grade school but for the fact that the method of computing superannuation is based on the salary paid in the last three years of service. It would be very advantageous
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to the service—of course, I am not touching on the financial' side of the question —because we have many teachers reaching the age-limit who might very well manage a much smaller school ajid do quite adequate and efficient work, and at the same time provide an opening for the younger teachers to come on. I think the lowest salary of a teacher in a normal school should be that of Grade i. Staffing : More liberal provision should be made for the staffing of schools above Grade 6a. This is partly provided for by the Education Act of 1908, and the staffs of all schools should now include the additional assistants enumerated in column 6 of the Second Schedule of that Act. Free books : The money expended in free books should be expended in providing stationery, paper for the children, and school requisites of that character. Size of schoolrooms : The method of computing the size of the schoolrooms in a large school by reckoning 12 square feet to a child, counting by average attendance, does not allow sufficient space for the children, nor does it make sufficient allowance for difficulties of organization. Playgrounds : Large playgrounds should be provided wherever possible. Curriculum : While believing that the present syllabus is a great improvement on any previous programme, we think that certain amendments might be made with advantage. In arithmetic the course of instruction should be curtailed, more evenly distributed among the standards, and made of a more practical nature. The importance of mental arithmetic should be emphasized. In geography the course should be fused into one complete compulsory course, in which the present requirements in physical and mathematical geography should be simplified. In this subject and in history vivid personal teaching should be insisted on. Regarding the teaching of English, the recommendations of the Inspectors' Conference of 1910 should be carried out. With regard to the proficiency examination, in cases of weakness in Standard VI arithmetic some compensation should be allowed where pupils show excellence in other subjects, such as science, instrumental drawing, or woodwork. The limitations now placed on the grants under the Manual and Technical Regulations should be removed or modified. Examinations for scholarships should be abolished, and the money now expended should provide for bringing into a centre the best children from the country schools in the backblocks. The retention of outside examinations for the purpose of competition does not enable a teacher to carry out the true spirit of the syllabus. Personally, my own opinion is that the Civil Service Examination should be abolished. I know there may be a difficulty in regard to the competitive question for positions in the Civil Service, but 1 believe that if some method were adopted by which the Civil Service and merchants and others could come into touch with the schools it would bring the schools more into touch with the community. I would have the appointments made through the headmasters of the schools, and 1 think the results would be better for everybody. Rural course: r ihe rural courses of the district high schools should be encouraged by establishing higher schools or colleges for agricultural instruction. The subjects of the suggestive course issued by the Department might be modified, provided that due attention be given to English and science. The issuing of certificates should give all pupils the same benefits as are now obtained by passing the Civil Service Junior Examination, and if this examination is not to be abolished the allotment of marks should be modified so as to encourage rural subjects. Primary, secondary, and technical : There should be closer correlation between the work of the primary and secondary (including technical) schools. Evening continuation schools : I think evening continuation schools should be encouraged. I have also some notes regarding the rural course from one of my colleagues —Mr. A. B. Charters, M.A. —who was lately appointed. I thought they might be of interest because he had charge of a rural school in the country, and the rural course being one of- the most important steps that have been taken in recent years deserves consideration. He has given me a written statement, which is as follows : " Rural course in district high schools : (1.) The salary of secondary assistants, more especially of those teaching the subjects of the rural course, should be increased. (2.) The subjects of the rural course might be reduced in number and additional time allowed for English. Physiology of farm animals should be cut out; the scientific training acquired in doing many of the other subjects should be sufficient to enable the student to take up the study of physiology of farm animals after leaving school. The programme in chemistry and physics should consist only of the portions of the subject necessary for botany, agriculture, domestic science, physiology, and should not be based on examination requirements. (3.) Botany and agriculture could be taken in the Fifth and Sixth Standards of the primary school, in which case the programme in these subjects for Junior Civil Service could be completed at the end of two-years in the secondary department. (4.) If the Junior Civil Service Examination is to be retained, then there should be a rearrangement of the marks at present allotted to several of the subjects. For instance, Latin and mathematics are at present allowed 400 marks apiece, whereas such subjects as botany and agriculture are allotted only 300 marks each. A pupil could, if the marks in botany and agriculture were increased to 400, sit for Junior Civil Service in English, arithmetic, botany, agriculture, and geography, completing 2,000 marks. At present the choice has to be somewhat as follows : English (600), arithmetic (300), geography (300), mathematics (400), botany (300), and one branch of drawing (100), in order to make up 2,000 marks. (5.) The Wellington Education Board awards annually three or four senior scholarships (for pupils under sixteen years of age) called ' B scholarships.'' These are open only to pupils working the rural course. The standard of examination is that of the Junior Civil Service Examination in English, arithmetic, and two science subjects, such as botany and agriculture; in addition, the notebooks of the candidates in the subjects of the rural course are examined and marks awarded. But a pupil gaining one of these scholarships and proceeding to some of the secondary schools finds that he has to drop botany and agriculture and take fresh subjects. There thus seems to be, need of some school in which to continue ruralcourse study. If rural-course pupils are to be enabled to matriculate from the district high schools the syllabus of the Matriculation Examination would need to be remodelled. (6.) The registration
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should be simplified. The number of special registers required is very great —more than should be necessary. It should be possible to adopt some other system based on the ordinary register of attendance.
Girls' physical instruction, deep breathing, and free exercises, 10 minutes daily.
The amount of time devoted above to geometry and algebra has been made necessary to allow pupils to take mathematics for Junior Civil Service (400 marks). Increased marks in Junior Civil Service to botany and agriculture would allow time devoted to geometry and algebra to be materially reduced. A course in physical measurements started in the primary division would provide much of the elementary geometry." I have said nothing about the consolidation of schools because the Secretary is drawing up a report on the matter. 1 am prepared to answer any question on the point. 4. Mr. Pirani.] What Department of the Public Service is allowed to count the best three years of service for superannuation? —I think it is under the Act of 1907. 5. Section 22 of the Public Service Superannuation Act, 1907, says, "For the purpose of computing the retiring-allowance to be granted to a contributor, his salary shall be deemed to be the average rate of salary received by him during the three years next preceding his retirement, or if his service has not continued for three years then during the period of his service : Provided that where by reason of the age or infirmity of a contributor his salary has been reduced, or he has been transferred to a position inferior to that which he previously- occupied, his retiringallowance shall be computed on the average rate of salary received by him during the three years next preceding such reduction or transfer." Would that be sufficient? —No, not quite; but the teachers have not even that advantage. 6. Mr. Davidson.] I understand you suggested that the salaries of sole teachers should be increased : have you compared the salaries paid in New Zealand to these teachers with those paid in any other part of the Empire? —I cannot say 1 have. We have compared salaries generally, but I do not think I can answer your question directly. 7. Do you know if more liberal provision is made for Grade 0 school in any other part of the Empire than is made here?—l do not. 8. Then you would not contradict the statement if it were put to you that more liberal provision is made for Grade 0 schools in New Zealand than in any other part of our Empire?—l should imagine that is the case. 9. Do you think the consolidation of the country schools would lead to greater efficiency and to a better type of teacher being provided for country schools ?—lf the consolidation were possible; but personally I do not think you will get in New Zealand as much from consolidation as those advocating it expect. Speaking generally to your question, it certainly would. 10. From your personal experience do you know if there are areas within the Wellington Education District where consolidation could be carried out? —Yes, there are districts where we recommended it should be done, but it was not done. 11. And if it were carried out it would, to some extent at any rate, meet the objection to the small salaries in these schools? —No, 1 do not think it would, because there would be so very few that it would not meet the general objection. 12. Do you. think the State can afford to pay any more than it is paying at the present time for education in Grade 0 schools?—l have not advocated anything for tirade 0, and 1 do not think under present conditions we should go below the present number laid down for Grade 1. I think the people in the backblocks where schools of Grade 1 cannot be established should sacrifice themselves a little to help their child ren. » 13. The salary for Grade 1 is from £90 to £120 : do you find that women are doing as good service as the average man in that grade? —I think in that school, under general conditions, a woman is better than a man.
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9-9.45. 9.45-10.30. 10.30-11. 11-12. 12-1. 1-2. 2-3. Monday . . . Arithmetic and English.. book-keeping Geometry Agriculture (Girls) Mensuration and surveying (Boys) (Chemistry and physics. Tuesday .. Arithmetic and i English.. Algebra., book-keeping I Wednesday Arithmetic and English.. Geometry book-keeping Thtiksday.. Arithmetic and English.. Algebra., book-keeping Botany . . I Agriculture. I.. Tuesday Wednesl 7 .. I Arithmetic and! English.. book-keeping I ! day I Arithmetic and English., book-keeninff Algebra.. Geology (Girls) ! ] Geometry English .. i 0. is ,g a c -0 o 3 3 rl English'?). Physiology aud hygiene (Girls). Cadet drill (Boys). DOOK-Keeprng ThtiksdalY.. Arithmetic and English.. linn V- h Af.nin a Algebra Botany .. j Agriculture. book-keeping Feiday .. Scale drawing and build-ing-construction (Boys), one hour. Cookery (Girls), two hours. Woodwork (Boys), two hours. Dressmaking (Girls), one hour and a half. Geometry, English, 40 min. 50 min. Arithmetic, 30 min.
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14. What would you suggest as the initial salary of a woman in that grade of school? —I really have not thought that out myself, but I think in a school of that kind we should not give less than £120. It is a financial question, which you have to consider in conjunction with the rest of the Dominion. There are over a thousand sole-teacher schools in the Dominion. 15. Do you think that pupil-teachers or probationers who enter the training college should, When they are. appointed to a position such as you have indicated, have some allowance made for the fact that they have spent two years in a training college : do you think they might start at the second division of Grade 1.—£105 to £120—instead of at £90 to £120? —Y r es, I see no objection to that whatever. 16. You know that pupil-teachers who refuse to enter the training college at the end of two years will be receiving £100 a year, whereas a student who enters in order to become more proficient will start at £90, and so be two years behind the one who refused?— Exactly. 17. Taking the salaries generally, do you think the so-called prizes in the teaching profession are sufficient in number?— No. 18. There are only twenty-eight positions in New Zealand carrying a salary of from £370 to £400? —Yes. There are six schools of that kind in our district. 19. If Grade 10 were made to include schools from. 500 instead of 600 that -would increase the number to sixty-three : do you think, that would be a step in the right direction? —Yes, from the point of view of salaries and making the teaching profession more attractive. I think it would be better, too, because some schools when they get above 600 are rather large. I. think 600 to 700 is quite large enough for a primary school. 20. The, Chairman.] May we say that in your opinion no primary school should contain more than 750 scholars? —Yes. 21. Mr. Davidson.] Do you think it would be a step in the right direction if the retiringallowances of all future entrants were computed upon average salary over the whole service instead of upon any 7 special period of service?— Yes, that would be more equitable, because the contribution is a percentage based on the salary received. 22. What have you to say as to the suggestion that a Dominion scheme of promotion of teachers should be brought into operation?—l cannot say I approve of it at all. Really we have had no experience of it. Ido not see how it is possible to estimate and grade teachers in that way. 23. Have you studied the scheme in operation in Auckland?—No, but I have seen the Wanganui scheme. It is quite possible to put down figures representing personality and environment, though it looks something like grading prisoners. Moreover, in regard to personality, you might have two men equal in marks From the point of view of personality, and of the two men one might be quite fitted for a certain post and the other quite unfitted. There are other questions to be considered. That scheme for the teachers certainly seems a very good way for the body which has to appoint the teachers, because they sometimes like to go along the line of least resistance, and that gives them a chance to do so. 24. Mr. Pirani.] The least resistance to canvassing by candidates? —Exactly. 25. Mr. Davidson.] Is it not a fact that the schemes in Auckland and Wanganui have given general satisfaction?—l cannot answer that. T have heard teachers from Auckland running it down and others praising it. 26. Do you think that teachers in such districts as Marlborough, Nelson, Grey, Westland, and Taranaki have fair opportunities for promotion?—No, not under the different schemes now existing. 27. How would you remedy this admitted defect in regard to the teachers in these very small districts not having a fair chance of promotion?— The remedy is to be found by dividing the country up in a different way —by having enlarged Boards. lam quite in accord with that idea. 28. Mr. Kirk.] Would you care to offer any opinion as to the suggestion that there should be reform in the construction and spelling of words?— You might ask one of my colleagues that, because he has given a little attention to this matter, and T cannot say I have. I think something might be said for spelling reform., but I do not think my opinion is worth anything, because I have not gone into the subject in detail. 29. Speaking generally, is the tendency of our teaching in the primary schools towards keeping the children as natural as possible? —Yes, I think it is. I think that is one very great advantage of the syllabus. 30. Is this true, or was it ever true : " One thing.seems very clear, and it is this : children seem to lose their almost divine gift of imagination not long after they enter our schools. A few short years and the bright imaginative and talkative child of five is converted into the stilted, irresponsive, and circumscribed schoolboy whom we know so well. There must be somethingwrong somewhere, for such a development is quite unnatural and contrary to the true ideal of education"?—l know whom you are quoting from. That criticism would be more true of the children in our schools fifteen years ago than it is to-day. I think that is one advantage of the change that has been made. Children are becoming more natural, and imagination is being more cultivated than it was. I have a very strong opinion on that point. The old rigid syllabus practically put everything into a child and dulled his imagination. 31. Have you any opinion to offer as to the suggestion that, sexual physiology should be taught in our schools?—l feel this way in regard to that question : T think sexual physiology ought to be taught, but I think it would be a very dangerous tiling to try to introduce it into school teaching. T think it is the kind of thins>- that should be taught individually, and not in the mass at all. 32. Mr. Wells.] By whom do you think it should be taught?—ln the first place, T think it is the duty of the parents. I see no objection to a teacher, say a female in the case of girls and a male in the case of boys, impressing certain points on the children, but I would not do it as a class subject. I would leave it to the judgment of the teacher as to when to do it, and so on.
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33. What about an itinerant teacher? —I have not considered that. 34. Have you had any experience of the work that is being done at the present time? —No. Wiave heard this White Cross man, but I really cannot give you any opinion of value. 35. You have never formed any opinion as to the value of his teaching? —I think some of his work is very good, but I have not the knowledge to give a definite opinion. 36. You speak of the inadequate salaries at present paid to teachers in district high schools : what do you think should be the minimum? —I think a teacher going into a district high school to take up possibly a course like the rural course should begin at £200 at least. That is the course that mainly affects us, because we have been making all our district high schools in the country practically take up that rural course, and we have found it difficult to get efficient teachers. 37. What would you fix as the minimum number of pupils before a district high school should be established ?—lt practically starts at twelve. 38. Do you think that is a reasonable number? —I do not. We have made it twenty-five, with an average attendance of, roughly, twenty. 39. You said you thought in the working of the syllabus arithmetic should be curtailed and more evenly distributed amongst the standards : will you offer any suggestions as to what should be struck out? —I think, first of all, Standard II should be rearranged. I think Standard V contains far too much, and that a good deal might be cut out of Standards V and VI. 40. Would you offer any indication as to what should be struck out? —I will do so later. 41. Can you give us the recommendations of the Inspectors' Conference as to English?—l will let you have them. They practically refer to questions of parts of speech taught in Standard IV, and suggested that certain parts should be cut out of the syllabus. It was said at the time, as I understood it, that teachers have been in the habit of interpreting that part of English —that they need not use terms —and it was to enable them to use terms in analysis. 42. In regard to the advisability of closer correlation between primary, secondary, and technical education, would you advocate Board of Education control of the different branches? —I think I would. I see no objection to it. If the Board of Education is large enough the different branches could be managed by Committees of the Board. 43. The Chairman.} Assuming that there are enlarged Boards, do you think it would be advantageous to give them general control over the three branches of education?—l think so. 44. Mr. Wells.] I imagine you would have a local Committee in connection with, the technical school to develop local interests, and so on? —Exactly. 45. Do you care to offer any opinion as to the equipment of the boys who leave our Standard VI now as compared with those of ten or fifteen years ago ?—There are several points in regard to that question which I think require to be considered. Criticism has been directed against the syllabus, and we find merchants and others talking about writing and inaccuracy in arithmetic; but I think that to expect a boy on leaving Standard VI at the age of thirteen or fourteen to go and sit down in an office is asking far too much, first of all. Secondly, some years ago the primary schools supplied boys for these offices, but the boys who went in those days were very often boys in Standard VII, and very often boys of fifteen or sixteen years of age. In Standard VII in those days they really went over the work of Standard VI again. What did we find then ? The criticism of the merchants was that they were not getting boys able to do a certain class of work —that if they asked a boy to write a letter requiring a little common-sense he could not do it. To-day the position is different. I have just been looking into this question lately and consulting our headmasters about it, and they tell me they are getting requests from merchants and others for boys in Standard VI, and they cannot get the boys to go. The consequence is that the merchants advertise these positions, and the applicants very often are those who have left during the leakage that has been referred to between Standard IV and Standard VI, and who, having probably been at something else for six months, have not been under any discipline whatever, and have therefore lost a good deal of their neatness and accuracy. All these points have to be considered. I think, taking an average Standard* VI boy of to-day, he is far more intelligent and can write you a more intelligent and imaginative composition, than a boy of fifteen years ago. At the same time I think boys should not go into merchants' offices until they have had a couple of years in either a technical school or evening continuation school. 46. I suppose it is in your experience in this district that the best product of the primary schools go on to the secondary or technical school?—I think so. 47. With regard to spoken English, have you noticed any deterioration during the last ten or fifteen years in. pronunciation?— Speaking generally, I cannot say I have. 48. With regard to the term examinations at present required from a headmaster, do you think it would be sufficient to have two instead of three during the year of which the records are to be entered up?—We have three in our district. Ido not think it would matter much whether we have two or three. 49. What is your opinion as to the value of the manual work being done in our public schools?—l think manual work is valuable, and that it should be retained. 50. Do you care to offer any opinion as to the work done by the trainees who have not served the pupil-teacher course—Class B students?— That touches our training colleges. We have had some Class B students, and we found they had a little difficulty in discipline at first. That is due not to any course taken in the training college, but perhaps to the fact that in the training college—that is the only practising they get —they have not had to meet the difficulty of discipline! They have been teaching a class disciplined by a good teacher, and when they come out and take a bigger class in the school they meet with that difficulty. Otherwise they get on fairly well, but not so well as those with pupil-teacher experience. 51. Are there any associated schools in connection with the training college?— Not yet. 52. Do you think it is a good system to pick out the very best assistants in the' different schools and then attach certain students to them in turn, say for a fortnight at a time, for
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observation purposes?— Yes, something of that kind. I think the facilities for practising in our training college could be improved; but associated schools may mean just schools for practising jor schools over which the Principal of the training college has a certain power. 53. Ido not mean that. I mean that the Inspectors should pick out certain assistants in the city schools that they consider the very best, and attach students to them for observation purposes rather than for practising?— Yes, I should say that would be a good thing. 54. Have you found children in the Normal School suffering at all through the amount of practising done by trainees on them?—l do not think so, speaking generally; but that answer is not quite correct if you take the case of particular teachers. I find they have not suffered under certain teachers, but I certainly must say they have suffered under others; but that is probably due to the fact that the teacher in the position has not risen to the occasion. I do not see why they should suffer at all under the present system. 55. Mr. Hogben.} refer to the salaries of the assistants in the secondary departments of the district high schools, with special reference to the district high schools in which the rural course is taken? —Yes. 56. Are you aware that £5 10s. per head is paid on each pupil taking the rural course? —Yes. 57. Does that not give you sufficient power to increase the salaries of the secondary teachers? —No, because that has to provide for the itinerant teachers. 58. Would it not be better to do without them?— That has been our desire all along. I do not think that £5 10s. is sufficient for things as at present. We did give our teachers a bonus one year, and added to the salaries ourselves. 59. If you have the teachers trained in a special rural course it would be better to increase the salaries and do without the itinerant teachers?— Undoubtedly. 60. I understood you to say that the salaries of probationers should be the same as the salaries of pupil-teachers?—l withdrew that, but I may say the difference in salary raises a difficulty. We have a number of applicants coming in. Take the case of matriculated students. We find a difficulty in getting them to take a probationership if there is a pupil-teachership open. As a pupil-teacher the salary is £45 in the first year, and as a probationer it would only be £20. Although a probationer has to teach three hours instead of five the applicant looks at the £45 instead of the £20. 61. If he comes from the country there is practically no difference? —That is so; the lodgingallowance comes in. 62. Do you recognize that the supplying of assistants in lieu of pupil-teachers costs a considerable sum of money?— That is so. 63. You recognize that by paying probationers less you can find some of the money?—l suppose that is so. 64. I think you said, that all the assistants in the lowest grades of the schedule of the Education Act should be provided?—lt would give a better staff, and I do not think it would be too liberal. I recognize that finance is a question. I am just speaking with regard to the staffing, and leaving finance out. 65. Is there not also the question of the supply of qualified teachers?—l am sorry I have not the list here, but we had to refuse a number of applicants for the Training College. 66. Are there teachers now to fill those posts if they were created? —There would not be to-day, but I think they would come within a couple of years. 67. From where?— Provided we had a larger number going into the training colleges. We have had to turn down numbers of applicants for the Training College. 68. Would that enable you to supply a greater proportion of certificated teachers to the country schools ? —There is a good deal more said about uncertificated teachers in country schools than is justified. We have fifty-eight out of 389, and of those fifty-eight the majority have a partial certificate. They are only uncertificated because they have not passed in blackboard drawing or singing, or some other subject. 69. The Chairman.} It is not fair to say they are untrained?— That is so. 70. Mr. Hogben.] There are a large number in the Dominion having no training at all? — That may be so. 71. You think that the remedy would be an increased number going into the training college? —Yes. . 72. You think that the Civil Service Examination should be abolished?— That is my own opinion. 73. Do you think, if you took the first hundred in that examination, they would really be identical with what would be selected in any way?— They probably would. 74. If so, is it not an easy way of selecting the hundred for the Public Service?— Yes, but it is limiting the programmes of the schools. That is my objection to it. What do we find in the rural course? Parents are compelling the teachers to prepare the children for the Civil Service Examination Some of the district high schools have to take mathematics in order to reach the 2,000 marks —that carries 400 marks. For the rural course a great deal might be left out for a boy who is going on to a farm. 75. Supposing agriculture were worth 400 marks?— That would help to remedy it. And botany be given 400. 76. Would you give botany 400?— I think I would. 77. Do you mean that it takes as many hours' work to teach botany asmiathematics?—lf you gave botany and agriculture 400 each it might be too much for the relative importance of the subjects, but you are doing it for the purpose of encouraging the rural course and agriculture in the country.
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78. Generally speaking, you are in favour of giving greater weight to some of the subjects °fjhe agricultural course? —That is so. 79. Supposing you did that under examination, do you not think it would satisfy the public much better to keep the Civil Service to the competitive examination? —It might. I do not believe it would be much better, but I believe the public would think it was better. It is the line of least resistance all the same. 80. Do you know of any country where the Civil Service is selected on your method?—No, 1 do not. 81. You said it was impossible or difficult to estimate the qualifications of teachers so exactly as to indicate a promotion scheme? —I say it would be difficult. 82. That applies to a good many marks in examinations, especially on subjects like composition and language generally? —Unquestionably. 83. Is that not often got over in examinations by bracketing those within a certain percentage? —That is so. 84. Suppose you bracket in the same grade all teachers having a total, say, between 70 and 79 per cent., and call them all of one grade, would not you get over the difficulty that way? —That is altering it altogether. I was asked about the Dominion classification scheme on the lines of Auckland's or Wanganui's scheme. 85. Supposing you bracketed together teachers within 5 per cent., would that clear away your difficulty? —That is practically what we have to do in making recommendations. It is a different thing in doing that ourselves in making recommendations to putting it forward as a hidebound scheme with figures. 86. Could you not agree to arrange all those within 5 per cent, or some such limit?— That might be done. 87. Would that overcome the difficulty? —No, not quite. It might in some cases, but I do not think it would in all. The positions are often such that you want a teacher of a particular calibre. 88. So far as general grading is concerned, would it overcome the difficulty?— There are different grades of teachers at present in a certain way. I do not think I would go much beyond that. I would leave the other qualifications to be otherwise assessed. 89. You would only reduce that sum exactly to marks? —It is not what I would do. I am not suggesting marks at all. 90. You would leave it as it is ?—I would not grade according to marks. 91. Do you think marks given by Inspectors are on a uniform standard? —No. 92. How do you propose to cure that?—l do not know. I leave it to your Department to do that. 93. Do you remember that we have discussed that at several conferences of Inspectors?— That is so. 94. Do you think we have a nearer approximation than before?—l think so. You ought to know better than I do. lam not in a position to say whether we are nearer an approximation. 95. You see the marking of other teachers who come from other districts sometimes?— That is so. 96. You do not think the position is sufficiently uniform at the present time? —I do not know that I have enough to go on to say that. It is not uniform, I admit. 97. Can you suggest any way of making it more uniform?—No, I cannot. 98. Would you make the Wanganui system, for instance, uniform?—l am against that. 99. Would not the same objection apply to that as to marking?— Yes. '100. You do not know of any method of putting it right?—No, not beyond giving teachers certain certificates and taking the aeneral knowledge and qualifications as assessed by the Inspectors. General knowledge cannot be judged by numbers. 101. Mr. Pirani.] Do you ask your pupil-teachers to do five hours' work, a day?—No; some more experienced ones may have to do five hours, but four hours is the general thing. 102. Do you not think it is wise to follow the Wanganui example and make all pupil-teachers teach for four hours, and make the other hour for study?— That might be a very reasonable alteration. Most of our pupil-teachers jjo four hours' practical work. . 103. The Chairman.] Do you think that a Council of Education would make for a continuous policy and a more uniform interpretation of the syllabus, and so forth, assuming it is truly representative?— That is my own opinion; but I do not know that I have considered the matter of the Council very much. - 104. And if the recommendations of this Council, if an administrative body, had to lie on the table of the House for some time before going into operation?—As to whether the Council is to be responsible to the Minister or Parliament I really have not considered. Fkederick Haslam Bakewbll examined on oath. (No. 159.) 1. The Chairman.] You are an Inspector under the Wellington Education Board? —Yes. I have thirty years' experience as a teacher and Inspector—four years as a teacher in Marlborough, fourteen years as a teacher in Wellington, and twelve years as an Inspector. I am an M.A. of the New Zealand University, and hold a Bl certificate. 2. Will you kindly read your statement to the Commission? —Y r es. Though there may be differences of opinion as to matters of detail and arrangement in the syllabus, there can be no question as to its real merit. The faults which have been from time to time attributed to it have been, as a rule, the result of mistaken interpretation or of incapacity to appreciate its true spirit. The public do not yet realize the epoch the syllabus marks in the educational history of the Dominion. It has been adversely affected by two causes : first, there has been an insufficiency
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of properly trained teachers to enable its provisions to be efficiently administered; and, secondly, it has been strained by the force of public opinion to meet the requirements of an unintelligent •"System of examinations quite foreign to the spirit of the new education. It is partly owing to this craze for examinations that, although the syllabus gives special direction for a rational treatment of the subject, so much valuable time is being wasted in our schools in unprofitable work in arithmetic. During the seven or eight years of his school life the primary pupil is receiving daily instruction in this subject —quite 20 per cent, of his school-time is taken up with it—and yet in no subject would the results appear to be less satisfactory. B'acility in a very few processes in arithmetic is all that is required by the average man in ordinary vocations, and it is not pretended that the excessive amount of time devoted in our schools to this subject is for the purpose of meeting the practical requirements of life. The idea, of course, is that the study of arithmetic provides a specially valuable training for the faculties such as no other subject in an elementary course provides, I am sure that this honourable Commission must have very soon realized that there are not many points on which educational experts agree, but if there is one point on which they do show some approach to unanimity it is on the fallacy of the theory of special faculty training which would maintain that correctness of judgment or action in one set of circumstances necessarily means correctness of judgment and action in another, and that the boy who, as the result of special training, acquires ability in dealing with problems in arithmetic will show a similar ability in dealing with the problems of life; and it is on the strength of this exploded theory that we make such an absurd fetich of arithmetic. Time which should be given to subjects in the syllabus which are of vastly more importance is now taken up in laborious effort to master useless processes and to solve problems of ridiculous complexity which are, moreover, quite beyond the average child's power of comprehension. The demand for this high standard defeats the very ends that it is supposed to serve, as so much has to be attempted that the teacher finds it practically impossible to treat the subject in a rational manner, and the proper grounding in principles and the necessary attention to method and accuracy are sacrificed in the vain endeavour to meet unreasonable examination requirements. The secondary teacher complains of the primary pupil's lack of grounding in the true principles of arithmetic; the business man complains of his inability to perform the simplest mechanical operations. If this is the result of seven or eight years' continuous instruction in the primary school, then it is evident that there is urgent need for a reform. This, in my opinion, could be achieved by (1) eliminating from school examinations the unnecessarily complex and what may be called the grotesque problem, which in reality is an obstacle to any really rational treatment of the subject; (2) bringing the ordinary commercial rules more into line with practical business requirements; (3) substituting simple algebraical and graph methods for many of the cumbersome methods now in use. Our whole educational system suffers from the examination incubus. Towards the end of the year every educational institution in the Dominion, from the University downwards, is in a perfect fever and turmoil of examination. Apart altogether from the physical injury which may result to young children from the severe mental strain that the system entails, infinite harm is done to the interests of true education by this endless preparation for stereotyped and rigid examinations, and simultaneous examinations on paper of large numbers of candidates cannot help being stereotyped and rigid. As an. example of the way in which the system may press on the primary pupil, take the case of a Sixth Standard boy in this district. In November, say, after most probably several trial tests by his class teacher, he is taken for his final term examination by the headmaster; within a week or two he is again examined by the Inspector for a proficiency certificate which will qualify him for a free place; later on, if he is a possible scholarship winner, or if his parents desire that he should qualify on the Junior National Scholarship or Junior Free Place list, he is again examined by the Department, the examination on this occasion taking two days. All this examination, in the same subjects and the same work, for the purpose of determining the boy's fitness for a secondary course or for awarding a scholarship ! With the institution of free places and the extension of the district high school system, scholarships are, in my opinion, no longer necessary; but even if they are necessary there could easily be a more intelligent and less injurious system of awarding them. It should surely not be necessary every year to put some 2,500 children in the Dominion to the strain of a two-days examination for the purpose of awarding a few scholarships or of deciding on their fitness for a secondary course. In the matter of qualification for a free place this may be obtained, with certain restrictions as to age, (1) on the result of the Department's Junior National Scholarship Examination or special Junior Free Place Examination; (2) on the result of the Inspector's examination for proficiency certificate. With the abolition of the age restriction, which is practically of little consequence, and with even a reform in the present system of awarding scholarships, only one of these examinations would be necessary. Educational authorities are really not to blame for the examination evil. It is the result of the extraordinary craving of the public for the public-examination imprimatur. An example of this was experienced in this district two years ago. The Board decided to adopt the Department's rural course in the country district high schools, but because there was a possible chance of its jeopardizing the interests of Junior Civil Service and Matriculation candidates the course met with strong opposition from local Committees. The course is specially designed to meet one of the most pressing educational needs of this countiy, and yet some Committees were quite prepared, for the sake of Junior Civil Service and Matriculation Examinations, to forego all the benefits of a vocational training in the agricultural and pastoral occupations on which the very existence of the country depends. There is evidently need of some central controlling authority which would ensure reform in this matter in every branch of our educational s3 T stem. I am in favour of one scheme of grading for all primary teachers in the Dominion, but as a preliminary to this there should be a complete reform in the matter of teachers' certificates. At
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present there exist five classes of certificates—A, B, C, D, and E—and though the E certificate is no longer awarded there are still a considerable number of our teachers in this class. Each o#*-these five classes has five divisions, so that even omitting the E class there are still twenty different divisions under which the teachers of the Dominion may be classified. There should surely be no more necessity for this complex system of classification for teachers than there would he' for, say, engineers, lawyers, or any other professional class. The C and D certificates are awarded on the results of the Department's examinations, the A and B certificates on additional University qualifications, so that a teacher who graduates not only has his University degree, which in itself should carry sufficient educational weight, but he also gains a higher classification in his teacher's certificate, the result being that he gets a double advantage over a large number of experienced teachers of approved efficiency whose circumstances have prevented them from taking up a University course. Moreover, this undue prominence attached to what may be purely adventitious University qualifications has had the distinctly mischievous effect of encouragingteachers to look to mere academic distinction as a means of promotion rather than to professional studies and practical teaching, efficiency, and experience. Were these higher certificates even granted for some prescribed and specialized University course in education —say, for a degree in pedagogy —something might be said in their favour; but in reality they are absolutely no criteria of teaching power or aptitude, professional knowledge or experience. No more theoretical knowledge of teaching is required for A and B certificates than is required for C. As a matter of fact, in the most vitally important subject in the syllabus—that is, the mother-tongue—the A-certificated teacher may have less equipment than the C-certificated teacher, for the English of the D certificate is the Department's minimum in that subject, and it is quite possible for a teacher with a D certificate to graduate at the University in Latin, mathematics, jurisprudence, political economy, and the like, and to take honours, say, in geology, and he then qualifies for an A certificate—that is to say, that in the case of the most important subject of the syllabus the requirements for the highest certificate are the same as for the lowest. I would not, for a moment say that the requirements of the C and D certificates should fix the highest standard of education and knowledge necessary- for the primary teacher. Let him take a University course by all means, but the chief factors in the grading of his teaching certificate should surely be his knowledge of education, his teaching ability, and his personality and character. 3. Mr. Davidson.] I understood that you were dealing with the question of teachers' certificates when you suggested there should be one certificate, and that additional qualifications should naturally count in favour of the applicant for a position? —In my evidence I did not deal with detail at all, inasmuch as I thought you were considering matters of reform. I have not considered the matter whether there should be one or two, certainly not more than two. I think the Department's D and C certificates should stand as they are, and that should be the qualification of a teacher. Then the University qualifications should naturally count on the lines on which they are gained. 4. Do you think the time has arrived when manual work, with the exception of perhaps woodwork, cookery, and agriculture, might form part of the ordinary school course, and not be paid for as they are now on a capitation basis?— You mean such subjects as modelling and brushwork? Yes, I think so. 5. Do you think that the present method entails too much clerical work in the preparation of departmental returns? —I am not conversant with the particular trouble that the Department may experience in this matter, but I should say that the keeping of registers and the sending-in of returns for such subjects as brushwork and modelling should not be necessary. 6. Have you heard teachers complain of the amount of clerical work in connection with these returns? —Decidedly- so. 7. In your opinion would it be wise to appoint a probationer on the staff of Grade 4 schools, or say Grade 3 schools, when the average attendance is between forty and eighty, in order that country boys and girls who perhaps have either passed the Junior Civil Service or Matriculation might have a greater opportunity for entering the teaching service : do you think, that would be a wise change?—l do. 8. The difficulties that have arisen in connection with the syllabus were really due to the varying interpretation put upon the syllabus in the several education districts. Would that trouble not disappear if the Inspectors-were under a central controlling body?—l would not go so far as to say it would disappear, but I should say there would be much more chance of uniformity of interpretation. 9. The Chairman.] Uniformity of interpretation is desirable in your opinion? —Yes. 10. Mr. Davidson.] Have you considered the desirability of establishing a Council of Education which would in a sense mould the policy of education and act as an advisory body to the Minister of Education? —I have not considered the matter of a Council, but I have thought that there is great necessity for an authority which will direct university, secondary, and primary education in the Dominion. 11. In some districts the Education Boards have little or no control over secondary or technical education. Should all that be controlled by one body, and so give greater co-ordination of the three branches of education ? —Yes. 12. Do you favour a Dominion scheme for the promotion of teachers? —Yes, I have advocated that at conferences. 13. Mr. Hogben.] Supposing you had two classes of certificates for teachers, would you indorse the teacher's University degrees on that certificate?—l do not know that it would" be necessary, but, of course, it could be done. 14. Is it necessary that the Board should examine the teacher as to his qualifications, in order to be assured that he is the same man that got the degree?—l should say that if he forwards his diploma that ought to be evidence enough.
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15. Would you make any other distinction between primary-school teachers and secondaryschool teachers than that? —No. I cannot help feeling that it would be impossible to have a certificate which would give the real qualifications of the teachers for secondary schools, the" subjects are so varied. For instance, applications are now being invited for two junior masterships at Wellington College. Two teachers with A certificates might apply and be quite incompetent. If they happened to be literature men, and science men were required, the certificates would be of no value. In tact, a man with first-class honours in literature was available, but the College authorities had no employment for him, because they wanted a science man. 16. The certificate would not have reference to the subjects the teacher would teach? —No. 17. Would you have a special certificate to show that the holder was trained in secondaryschool work '? —I do not quite see that such a distinction is necessary. My opinion is that his teaching knowledge should be certified by his primary certificate —by his one certificate, whether you call it a primary certificate or simply a teaching certificate. If a man has the skill and knowledge of teaching methods and the history of teaching that are required for the C certificate that ought to be sufficient for secondary requirements. Particular knowledge of the particular subject would be supplied by his University qualification. 18. Then you do not think there is any need for two certificates differentiating between teaching qualifications for secondary schools and teaching qualifications for primary schools?— I do not. 19. Mr. Kirk.] Do you agree that the success of any promotion scheme depends upon the knowledge possessed by the person grading of the person graded?—l should say so. 20. If you have a Dominion scheme how do you hope to obtain that knowledge?—l could not say. If you once consider details you will never get reform. 2f. Do you call that a detail?—l advocate the principle. lam not going into the details. 22. I should say it was the fundamental principle of the matter? —I think it could be done. 23. How could it be done? —To a certain extent it is done now. The teacher's certificate is graded to a certain extent now, and what I have suggested is only an extension of that scheme. The Department grades teachers as, say, D 3, and so on. 24. Mr. Wells.] Would it not be a very difficult matter to grade teachers under the present system of Boards, with the Dominion divided into thirteen Board districts, varying in size as they do ?—Yes. 25. Do you think that if there were four, six, or even eight fairly equal districts, with a correspondingly strong inspectorial staff in each district, the grading of the teachers in each district would become an easier matter?—Of course, it would be easier to grade six staffs than thirteen. 26. In each district would there not be a nearer approach to a common standard than you could hope to get at the present time? —Possibly. 27. Do you not think it is probable?— You would still have the differences of opinion resulting from six different authorities grading teachers. 28. Supposing there were six districts, do you not think the basis in the different districts would in all probability be fairly near alike? —Yes. 29. And the weakest would be somewhere near the standard? Would you not get a common standard of comparison?— Yes. 30. Mr. Kirk.] What about the mediocre?— That is where the trouble is—one of margin. 31. Mr. Wells.] Still, I suppose that every teacher in each district would probably be known to two or three of the inspectorial staff, so that the Inspectors sitting as a Board should be able to agree in a fairly satisfactory manner for that district? —Yes. 32. And when it was done for that district should it not be less difficult from the results obtained from the different districts to formulate a Dominion scheme? —I admit that it would be easier to revise six different schemes than thirteen. 33. Taking the rearrangement of the Dominion into four or six districts as a first step, do you not think that following from it there might be worked up a Dominion promotion scheme? — I should say that if you had that, and the Department took, say, the Chief Inspector from each of those districts and consulted with him, it would be possible to get a fairly satisfactory grading scheme. 34. Do you think that any cranrmmg is going on in our public schools?—l should say that the preparation for stereotyped examinations always involves a certain amount of cram. 35. Is much after-hours' work done in this district? —I hope not. We have discountenanced it as much as possible. 36. Would you favour the abolition of scholarships as at present awarded? —The examinations for scholarships, decidedly. 37. Would you substitute simple free places?—Or scholarships under some other system than examination. 38. Do you approve of the accrediting system that exists in the United States? —Something of that kind. 39. Do you think the most efficient of our schools might be allowed to nominate their best pupils for secondary or technical free places without examination?— Certainly. I think it would be an advantage. With regard to the scholarship examinations, I would like to say that it does not necessarily follow that the examination gives the scholarship to the most deserving or the cleverest children. 40. The Chairman.] In such a case, if the headmaster found himself in any difficulty, should he not have the right to call in the assistance of an Inspector?— Yes. 41. Mr. Wells.] What is done in your district to encourage school libraries?— The Board usually supplements with pound-for-pound grants money raised locally.
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42. Is there any limit to that?— Yes, £5 for each application. The Wellington City Council has inaugurated a, system of municipal libraries, which has been tried in one school with very successful results. 43. The Chairman.] Do you think it would be advantageous if the Department were to allow head teacher's and Inspectors to travel periodically, in order to make themselves acquainted with other education systems, and on their return to the Dominion report to the Department on whft they had observed ?—I do. 44. Mr. Davidson.] Do you think that where an Inspector finds schools in a very high state of efficiency for several successive years he might be allowed to leave it without examination, and employ his time more profitably in helping the teachers of the less efficient schools ? —I do. John Smaillie Tennanu' examined on oath. (No. 160.) 1. The Chairman.] You are Principal of the Wellington Training College?— Yes. 1 have held that position for the last six months. Prior to that I was for seven years an Inspector of Schools in Wellington. 2. What has been your experience as a teacher? —I was for seven years in the secondary school at Ashburton, and previous to that I was for fourteen years in the High Street Primary School, Dunedin. 3. And your educational qualifications?—M.A. and B.Sc. of the New Zealand University. I am graded by the Department 81. 4. Will you make a statement to the Commission? —Yes. Training of teachers: Trainingcollege authorities should have the power to extend the period of training to three years in the case of students who show special aptitude for some branch of teaching. Some restriction should be placed on the power of the governing bodies of secondary schools to appoint untrained teachers. The present system of classifying teachers is unduly complex, and tends to divert the attention of both Committees and teachers themselves from the primary question of actual teaching efficiency. 'Syllabus : The present syllabus is the best that New Zealand lias so far possessed. Criticisms as to its being overcrowded, too diffuse, attaching too little importance to the essentials, etc., have arisen largely from a misinterpretation of its spirit. Reading, spelling, writing, arithmetic in themselves are not education —they are the tools for acquiring it. The means have been made an end, and consequently we have little or no time for the truly educative subjects. A decided simplification of the arithmetic, the adoption of a metric system, and a measure of spelling reform would give a third of the school time for other more important subjects. Free books and scholarships : The money now spent in scholarships and free books might be more advantageously spent in providing some boarding-allowance for children from the backblocks and in extending the scope of the School Journal. The provision of stationery and suitable school libraries is of more pressing importance than the provision of actual class books, which in any case should belong to the child. Vocational training : The idea that direct educational training may end at fourteen is a more prolific cause of waste than any other so-called defect in our system. The State has recognized its responsibility in this matter by giving Boards and Committees power to make attendance at continuation classes compulsory. This power has so far not been exercised. It appears illogical that our youth are compelled to undergo military training while the more important mental disciplinary training during adolescence is left to chance. The establishment of the rural and domestic science courses in our district high schools is one of the most important reforms carried out within recent years. But much of the advantage thus gained is lost because neither scholarship system nor secondary schools can at present carry on the work for those who desire to continue it beyond the district high school standard. All progressive countries recognize that for a large number of their youths higher vocational training is as important as university training. Correlation of primary and secondary education : The want of complete correlation between these two important parts of our educational system is largely due to a want of knowledge on the part of the secondary teacher of the work and aims of the primary school. This is most evident in. language-teaching, where the secondary school expects the pupil to come prepared with an equipment of grammar modern methods of languageteaching do not require. Superannuation : The provision for widows is not adequate, and if the fund will not, permit of increase some deduction from the higher pensions might reasonably be made to allow of such an increase. 5. Mr. Wells.] Would you support an increase of the teachers' contribution in order to provide a more liberal allowance for widows? —Yes. 6. Do you care to make any remarks as to the attitude of the trainees towards their studies, as compared with their attitude towards their training as teachers? Is there any inclination to place one above the other? —There is an inclination to place literary work above professional work. That is to a very large extent engendered and fostered by our present system of classification. 7. What means of correcting that would you suggest?— Simplification of the classification of teachers. 8. You advocate only one teacher's certificate? —I see no necessity for more than one. 9. Would you indorse on that the records of subsequent progress?— No. 10. You would let that be acknowledged in another way altogether?— Yes. 11. Do you not think that the lengthening of the apprenticeship course for teachers would tend to discourage young men of promise from entering the profession ?—I take it that by 7 lengthening the apprenticeship and raising the standard of entrance we would be raising the standard of the profession. I should always be on the side of making- the entrance to the profession, at any rate, not easier than at present.
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12. Comparing the teaching profession with the legal profession, with the Civil Service, and with what commerce offers, do you think the prizes offered by the teaching profession are equal to those offered in the other walks of life? —Certainly not; but that is no reason for doing anything to make the entrance to our profession any easier. f3. I am not talking of making it easier, but you are talking of making it harder —of lengthening the course. Will not your proposal lengthen the time which it will take a young man to arrive at a living-wage?— Yes. 14. Do you not think that will tend to make, the profession more unpopular than it is at present, when a young man compares it with what other callings offer? —There is only one remedy for that- —that is, offer more inducements to the profession. 15. Do you think the prizes are not sufficient at present? —I think they are not. 16. Mr. Kirk.} Would you extend your remarks with regard to spelling reform?—lt is a subject to which I have not given any specialized attention, but I am certainly in favour of a very considerable measure of spelling reform, for the same reason that I am advocating the simplifying of the arithmetic syllabus. 17. You have no further argument or further reasons to put before us?—l think very many of the arguments for some reform are self-evident and obvious. If we can do anything to make spelling more logical and reasonable—if we can do anything to decrease the amount of time now given to the teaching and learning of spelling—that will naturally- leave more time to give to much more important subjects. 18. Mr. Davidson.] Have you a kindergarten department in the Training College? —Yes. 19. At what age are children admitted to the kindergarten?— They come at four, and remain till they are five or six years of age. 20. Do you think, the time has arrived when kindergartens might be introduced in connection with the large schools in the centres of population?— Theoretically, yes; practically, there are advantages in having kindergartens apart from the bigger schools. 21. What are the special advantages of that system?—l would always advocate that the infant department of a school should be separated as far as possible from the standard part of the school. 22. You would have a separate building and a separate playground?— Yes. 23. Where that advantage obtains would you advocate the introduction of the kindergarten?— Decidedly. 24. Do you think that the introduction of the kindergarten would lead to the adoption of the kindergarten methods through the standard classes?—lt would certainly tend in that direction. 25. Do you think it would be wise to emphasize the necessity, in connection with reading, of paying special attention to voice-production, and distinct enunciation in speech, and purity of vowel sounds ? —Decidedly. 26. Have you noticed that in the recent new 7 course of study introduced in South Australia and Victoria very special attention is directed to exercises in phonics?— Yes. One of my reasons .for advocating spelling reform is that it would give us a means of fixing and standardizing pronunciation. 27. What is your experience as regards the alleged degradation of spoken English in New Zealand?—My experience has been that as soon as you go to another country the people of that country accuse you of degrading English. I have seen no signs of a more serious degradation of English here than in any other part of the Empire that I know. 28. Do you think that in the English language as spoken by New-Zealanders the pronunciation is less pure, or the vowel sounds are less enunciated, than was the case ten years ago?— With the better class of children, no; but we have a less homogeneous population now, consequently I think one finds in some of the poorer districts peculiarities developing that one would probably not have noticed twenty years ago. 29. Have you noticed that the speech of boys is less distinct than that of girls in New Zealand?—l cannot say so. In the matter of reading a girl takes more pains than a boy. Judged from the reading in school the girl would show to advantage in comparison with the boy. Beyond that I would not like to express a decided opinion. 30. You' do not think the standard of English is lower than it was ten years ago?— Taking the standard as a whole I do not thiiri? it has been degraded. 31. You think that the amount of arithmetic in the syllabus might be curtailed, simplified, and made more practical? —Yes. 32. Can you suggest any other alterations in connection with the syllabus?—l am not prepared to go into details offhand. 33. What is your opinion as to the finished product from our primary schools to-day as compared with that of fifteen years ago?— That is rather a difficult question to answer with a Yes or No, because the conditions have changed very materially. The finished product of our primary schools now cannot fairly be compared with the finished product of fifteen years ago. Fifteen years ago the boys particularly, and the girls also, remained in the Sixth Standard longer than they do now. Consequently the finished product then would have certain advantages. Taken all round, T think we are now turning out more intelligent pupils than we were fifteen years ago. 34. What provision is made in the Wellington Training College for the practical side of the students' work? —A student, has, roughly speaking, two hours' practice a day in actual teaching. 35. Do you arrange for your students to go into the best-conducted schools in the city for practice?— That has not been so, but with the assistance of the Inspectors and the headmasters of the district we have just arranged a scheme to provide for it.
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36. You think it is a necessary and wise provision to make?— Yes. 37. If in the immediate neighbourhood of Wellington there were schools of Grade 3 or Grade 4 in charge of thoroughly competent teachers, would you say that your students might have an opportunity of observing and practising there? —Only difficulties in the matter of getting at certain schools would prevent me welcoming such an opportunity of giving them practice. 38. Mr". Pirani.] You said you did not notice any corruption of spoken English amongst the better class of children. Is it not a fact that it is that class that talk about " faive " for "five," and " taime-table " for "time-table"—that you do not find that affected pronunciation in the lower class? —I do not recognize a lower class. 39. The mistress of one of the large secondary schools of the Dominion was before us th. other day, and she kept telling us that she had a good " taime-table." Have you not heard " five " pronounced " faive " ? —Certainly; but " i " is often a diphthong. 40. Is it amongst the better class of children that that obtains?—l do not think the children bother much about that kind, of nicety. I have never had to correct it as a general mistake. 41. Have you come across that particular affectation amongst teachers?— No. 42. Do you think the present primary-school Inspectors are capable of inspecting the secondary schools? —Yes. 43. Is there not overlapping now in the primary-school Inspectors inspecting the district high schools as well as the departmental Inspectors? Is the double inspection necessary?—lf wisely carried out it is always an advantage. 44. To have two Inspectors doing the same work? —Not quite the same work necessarily. The departmental Inspector has not the same limitation as to time as the Board's Inspectors, so that his visit may be made a very valuable one. 45. Is it your experience that the visit of tiie departmental Inspector to a district high school is longer than that of your own Inspectors, or is your experience like mine—that it is merely a cursory run through the school? —I am not sufficiently familiar with the itinerary of the departmental Inspectors to say. On the only occasion, when T met a departmental Inspector in a school he withdrew in our favour. 46. Evidently, then, he thought it was a duplication of the inspection?— Well, he thought, and rightly, that it was a little rough on the teacher to have two sets of Inspectors. 47. The question is whether it would not, be economy to do away with one of those two inspections ?—lt certainly would be. 48. Would it affect the efficiency of the schools if one were done away with? —I think the majority of the primary-school Inspectors would very willingly withdraw from the secondary schools. 49. But which would it be more economical to withdraw —the primary-school Inspectors or the departmental Inspectors?— The departmental Inspectors. 50. Do you think any injury would be done to the students at the training colleges if they were allowed to do relieving -work during the month of February, and draw 7 extra payment for it?— No. 51. Is it not an injustice that they are not allowed to do that work and take payment for it? —"Injustice" is hardly the word I would use there. T think it would be a most reasonable thing that they should be allowed to do it. If. I might suggest a way out of the difficulty I see no reason why for the time they are relieving they should not be allowed to forego their trainees' allowance, and accept the higher relieving payment. 52. Do you think it an injustice if they have done relieving work without being told that there would be a deduction from their trainees' allowance, and that amount has been deducted at the end of the year? —Certainly, 53. The Chairman.} Do you propose for teachers an extension of their ordinary period of studentship, or do you mean, as Professor White suggests, that they should be kept for an additional year for observation purposes in schools specially selected?—My idea is that some students who show special aptitude for secondary work, or special technical work, or kindergarten work should devote the extra year to special observation and practice along the lines for which they are specially adapted. I would not ask it for all students, but for a small proportion of the more promising. 54. Assuming that kindergartens were the initial stage of the scheme of education, at what age would you have the children take up "standard work?—l should like to see the children between the ages of four and eight under the kindergarten system. From eight to thirteen I would have them take ordinary primary-school work, and from, not less than thirteen —and preferably fourteen —onwards, secondary work. 55. Has the Wellington Board any means of providing boarding accommodation to meet the proposed change -when scholarships are abolished? Would it not be desirable that the Board should have under their control a hostel for boys and girls? —I should strongly support any such proposal. 56. We have been told that it is quite feasible, and that the girls taking up the domestic course could undertake the internal supervision?— That might very well be done. 57. Would you not consider it preferable that the Board should have an establishment of that kind under theii control, rather than allow the scholars to seek accommodation at random? —T find that, that is a weakness in connection with our training-college students, and in the case of children it would be a much more decided weakness to allow them to board wherever their parents desired. 58. Mr. Kirk.] Would you care to extend in a memorandum your views with regard to spelling reform?—l will do so. [Memorandum subsequently handed in, as follows:] So far as the primary curriculum is concerned, spelling is simply a means to an end—that end is ability
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to read and write. Whatever hinders or prolongs the attainment of the desired end is harmful. This applies particularly to children who are easily discouraged, and who, when they find that the spelling of a word depends not on its pronunciation but on an authority inconsistent and variable, naturally tend to depend on authority for their attitude to spelling as well as other subjects. If there is no longer virtue in the faculty-training theory—and educational experts are now practically agreed on this point—much valuable time is wasted in the drudgery- of purposeless work. Furthermore, looked at in the right way, phonetic spelling is not a destructive but a conservative agency giving the teacher a direct and potent means of correcting faulty pronunciation; and, just as the creation of a noble literature renders a language stable by arresting purely local verbal or grammatical changes, so would a reasonable phonetic spelling tend to create a standard pronunciation. We quite recognize that there can be no absolute standard— in other human affairs there is none —though we all use a pronouncing dictionary; but we would be spared the degradation of sounds now so common in different parts of our Empire.. Opponents of reform produce the bogey of a " discredited derivation." Dr. Trench says, " Phonetic spellingis a proposal that the cultured should place themselves under the guidance of the ignorant." We contend that the child under a phonetic system could learn to read and then have more time to study the fascinating history of words than he now has. In reality, however, these dire results would not necessarily follow a reasonable reform. English up to the time of the Norman Conquest was phonetic. We drove the Frenchmen out —out of England—but we hesitate to turn out their spelling. Shakespeare's spelling, however, would satisfy most spelling reformers. As a matter of fact, the measure of reform asked would, on the whole, bring us nearer the original form of the majority of our useful words. I append a list of words (very commonly misspelt) from a Standard I reading-book which illustrates the point I mean : Learn, middle English lem; scythe, old English sithe; build, old English bild; could, old English coud or coude; sovreign, French sovrain; ghost, old English gost or goste; labour, Latin labor; error, Latin error, French errour; coast, French coste ; centre, Shakespeare center; acre, Shakespeare aker; debt, Latin debitum, French dette; country, Latin contra, French cuntrie; pray, Latin precare; prey, Latin praeda; scent, Latin sentue; what, old English hwat. Spelling has become a pure convention; we as a race have lost the phonetic sense. William Sanderson La Trobe examined. (No. 161.) 1. The Chairman?] You are Director of Technical Education in Wellington? —Yes, under an Associated Board of Managers. I have been in that position for eight years. Prior to that period I had eight years' university teaching in the Old Country. 2. What is your educational qualification? —I hold the degrees of Master of Arts of Cambridge and New Zealand. 3. Will you submit the statement that you have prepared? —Yes. Cost of State education in relation to efficiency : Efficiency depends mainly on —(I) the employment of thoroughly welltrained teachers, who must have, in addition to those high qualities of mind and heart which can neither be bought nor produced by training, a competent knowledge of the subjects in which they teach, and pedagogic skill; (2) efficient supervision and direction of the teaching; (3) limitation of classes to such numbers as can be readily controlled and individually studied by the teacher—about thirty students for ordinary classes and about twenty- for laboratory-work mark the limits for real efficiency; (4) suitable equipment and healthy and adequate accommodation. In the primary schools at the present time salaries are too low, the teacher's surroundings are often uncomfortable, the training of teachers is usually incomplete, and classes are often far too large. The defect in training is usually such that the teachers have not a competent knowledge of all the subjects treated, especially those of a scientific character. In secondary and technical schools the teachers are usually competent so far as knowledge of subjects is concerned, but are generally not trained sufficiently in methods and the general science of pedagogics. Too much reliance is placed on text-books in science subjects, and probably in other subjects as well. This is, I think, largely due to the teachers not being specially trained for their work. Classes are too large, and salaries, on the average, too low in these schools; among exceptions, as regards salaries, are those of teachers in trade or commercial subjects in technical schools, where it is impossible to " sweat " the teachers oh account of the direct competition of employers outside the education system. As regards expenditure, I can speak only of the way in which manual and technical education is affected by the present methods of finance. The capitation system in manual and technical classes, outside the day technical schools, appears to me to be unsuitable. It entails an enormous amount of detail office-work, without any corresponding advantages from the educational point of view. It leads to the expenditure of more money than is necessary on certain classes of work, and starves other classes of equal or greater importance. It tends to the formation of merely popular classes in technical schools, and directly and indirectly to squeeze out classes of high value for which there may be few students. The recent rearrangement of capitation allowances has, in part, removed some of these drawbacks, but at the expense of greatly increased complication of office-work in the schools, and also, I imagine, in the Head Office. The system is unsound in principle and cumbrous in practice, and should be abolished in favour of a method similar to that adopted in the case of University Colleges, which, indeed, as at present constituted, are largely technical and continuation evening schools. Overlapping and duplication : Roughly speaking, there are four main classes of pupils to be dealt with. The first class, numbering, I believe, about half the total, finishes schooling in the primary schools and goes to work at about fourteen years of age. Of the remainder, a large proportion go to a secondary or day technical school for a couple of years, and then go into some trade or office-work. A few stay three or four years at school and matriculate before going to work, while a small percentage go to College as all-day students. Primary education must therefore be
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fairly complete as far as it goes. At about fourteen years of age the pupil should leave the primary school. His schooling after that should depend on his prospects and ambitions. The post-primary education should therefore be arranged to suit all classes of students. In smaller centres of population this can bo done most readily by a combination of the ordinary secondaryschool courses with courses of a. more vocational character suited to the needs of the district. .In the larger .centres there is ample room for both the ordinal , )' secondary school and the day technical school. Provided that the intentions of the two types of school remain pure, and that neither attempts to provide courses for which the other is specially designed, there will be no real overlapping, though there must necessarily be duplication in much the same sense as there is duplication of primary schools in large centres of population. The same principles apply in the case of higher technical and university work. The establishment of evening classes in, the University Colleges for students who are employed during the day in earning their living or in mastering the ordinary practice of their trade or profession is, I think, a distinct encroachment on the legitimate field of technical-school work. It is a very different thing from what is usually known as University extension work. It cannot be argued that such work is part of the legitimate field of operation of the University. The intrusion of the University into matters outside its own sphere has had bad effects both on the University and on the technical education system. For the University it means missing largely the main aim of a university—that of being the highest centre of national spirit and national thought, an aim which, realized, w 7 ould make it the nursery of national leaders. This bad effect entails loss of prestige to the University, and, incidentally, a cheapening of the degrees granted. For the technical college it means a loss of some of the higher work, a consequent increase of difficult}' in maintaining a high scientific standard, and the loss of the essential quality of universality in its own sphere. Recommenda-tions—Primary-school syllabus : Having regard to the fact that the primary-school work should be complete in itself and should be a real, if somewhat restricted, education of the child, I am of opinion that the arts of reading, writing, and computing, which are, after all, merely convenient instruments of education, are quite prominent enough in the syllabus. Speaking merely as a secondary-school teacher or as an employer requiring a clerk, I would prefer to have material specially prepared for immediate use by being drilled to automatic precision in these arts, but it would be absurd to say that a child who had received only such drilling had been well educated. In regard to some other subjects in the syllabus, it seems to me that a large part of what is prescribed might be simplified in the meantime, not because it is not highly suitable and admirably adapted in many respects to give excellent results in the hands of an enthusiastic teacher with a deep knowledge of the subject, but because it is undesirable that the work should be done out of text-books, and a large proportion of the present teachers have not had the training to be able to dispense with text-books. In regard to drawing, for example, the work should be very closely supervised by competent instructors. The same remark applies to manual training, except where manual training takes what is, I think, its right place as a subsidiary subject in mathematics and science. In regard to the training of teachers, there seems to be at present too slender a connection between technical and training colleges. Some knowledge of the necessities of technical-college work would, I am sure, be of considerable use to many teachers, and in some subjects the guidance of technical and art school-teachers would be useful in primary-school work. On the other hand, means should be provided whereby teachers destined for secondary and technical work could get the training in pedagogy which they need. Re scholarships and free places : The present provision of scholarships does not appear to be necessary. The money would be much better spent as boarding-allowances to country children attending the secondary or technical schools in towns. The present provision for free places is sufficient, but I would like to plead the cause of those children w r ho, though not up to the standard of proficiency in compulsory subjects, have manifested special ability in some particular direction. The number of such students is not large, but it is quite possible that some of them would well repay for the further development of their special faculties, and in any case it seems unjust to deny to them the reward they would obtain if their excellence were "stock pattern." The free places awarded to such students could well be limited to schools in which their special gifts would have most play. In regard to the general question, while the way should be clear for all who have the natural ability to proceed right through to the University, it is certain that the system, can only be a success if it fails to ensure .that all who have the natural ability shall go right through into the learned professions. It is not in these professions that the brains of the country should be centred. On the contrary, men of great natural ability should be well distributed in every walk of life. Though it is true that conditions outside the range of educational institutions and beyond the reach of legislation will preserve the balance fairly even, yet it would seem desirable that the educational system .should not tend to produce a bias in any particular direction. For this reason the widest possible choice of courses should be provided in higher schools and technical colleges, as also in the University. 4. Mr. Wellf!.~\ In abolishing the scholarships would you make any allowance for books? —Tt might be advisable in some cases. As a general rule I do not think any allowance would be necessary. As a matter of fact the number of books that would be required should be very small. I have a strong disbelief in text-books all along. 5. Still, you would be prepared to give books if required?— Yes. 6. With regard to the evening lectures at the University College, do you mean that there should be no evening lectures?— Not at all. But the man who is engaged during the day in practising some profession or trade is not, properly speaking, a University student who is likely to work at the University in the same way as the man who is living with other men studying in the University all the time.
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7. Would you put any difficulties in the way of a man who is at work through the day acquiring a degree? —As far as the degree is concerned, yes. As far as acquiring the knowledge is concerned, certainly not. 8. Y T ou would debar him from taking his degree?—l would be very much inclined, from my experience of universities, to say that the degree should be granted only to those who have been in residence. 9. In your own classes do you find that there is any bias towards commercial work?— There is no more bias towards it, I think, than is explainable by taking into account the demand there is for services in the different branches. As far as f can make out from the statistics of my own school, the proportion of those studying commercial work as compared with those taking up industrial work is not far from the natural proportion in the community. 10. Do you think the time has come for making attendance at continuation classes compulsory?— That is a question of policy; but, speaking as a citizeu, 1 would say that the sooner that time comes the better for the country. 11. Have you had any opportunity of gauging public feeling on that point?— Only through my own Board, and there, as far as I can see, the feeling seems to be that those who will not take advantage of the system without compulsion are scarcely worth compelling. Personally, I do not agree with that. I find that the moderate amount of compulsion which we have for free-place students in the evening makes a very considerable difference in the average attendance. To my surprise I find that the free-place students attend much better than the paying students at my evening classes. 12. The Chairman.} If we are told that there is a leakage of 40 per cent, between Standards IV and VI, and 20 per cent, between Standards 111 and IV, is that not evidence that compulsory as distinguished from voluntary attendance is the correct thing?—l should say so. 13. Mr. Wells.] Have you formed any opinion as to the value of the woodwork done in our public schools? —I have not been directly connected with the woodwork in this district, as I am running the central school, but I think the general result of a moderate course of woodwork is good for the boys. We find in the day classes that boys who have had training in woodwork come to us with a better conception of what is required when they come to take up trade work, and make better progress. It is useful to boys who are going into mechanical pursuits, and for others it is useful from the point of view of general education. 14. Do you find it difficult to get trained teachers for the technical classes? —My difficulty is not to get persons with the requisite knowledge, but persons who have had, in addition to their workshop knowledge, a scientific training. Many of them have had sufficient casual experience of teaching in workshops and offices, but as a rule they have not had any scientific training. 15. Can you offer any suggestions as to the means of dealing with that difficulty? —Possibly something might be done by arranging with the training for evening classes. 16. Have you a playground in connection with the Technical College?— There is an area of about 100 ft. by 120 ft. We ought to have about 10 acres. 17. You agree that it is necessary that there should be a decent playground in connection with the school? —Yes, whether it is purely an evening school or a mixed day and evening school, because the development of the students on the physical side is quite as important as that on the mental side. 18. Do you not think the question of enlarging the playgrounds of the city schools might be taken up as part of a town-planning scheme, under which the local authority, the Education Board, and the Department might equally contribute? —Yes. When you were making a town it would be easy, but in the case of an old town already misplanned it is difficult to arrange for suitable spots. My Board has been fighting for a convenient site for a long time, but has not yet found it. 'Still, wherever possible there should be a close connection between the bodies concerned with the health of the people. 19. In view- of the rising price of laud is it not advisable to secure anything that can be secured as early as possible? —Certainly. 20. As to the pupils who come to the evening classes, what is your experience with regard to their fitness to undertake evening work after putting in other work all day?—l have always held that a man should be more fresh when he approaches a new 7 and difficult subject than when doing routine work. Consequently it would be much better if the boys came to us early in the morning and went to work afterwards than the opposite plan. 21. How do they do the compulsory work?— Some of them do it well, in spite of the disadvantages; others go to sleep —they cannot be kept awake. 22. Do you think it advisable that time off should be allowed? —I have advocated it on sundry occasions. 23. What sort of reception have you had from the employers? —Fairly chilly. 24. Do you think that work at the Technical School should count towards the apprenticeship period?— Not always —only under proper conditions. But there is no doubt whatever that a man must have a long training in the actual commercial running of any- business before he is competent, and in the case of a boy, after he has taken two years in our day mechanical class, staying on for a further two years, I think that further two years, if it be after the age of sixteen, might count towards his, apprenticeship—count half-time, or perhaps full time. From the point of view- of efficiency he would certainly be as efficient, if not exactly in the -same way by the time he was twenty-one, in the one way as in the other. 25. Would it be reasonable to count three years at a technical school as one year for the apprenticeship? —Yes, provided that in the last year the boy was over the age of sixteen. If he came at thirteen and stayed three years, he could serve his full apprenticeship till he was twenty-one.
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26. Mr. Kirk.] Should you care to express an opinion as to the growing tendency to eliminate the classics from the education system?—l do not know that I ought. There is one classical language that must be studied by all students who are going into university work, and that is the' English language and literature. For those who are going in for purely scientific work time might possibly be saved by omitting Greek and Latin. I dodged Greek myself at Cambridge, and was glad to do it. At the same time, in an absolutely liberal education the classics have their share. 27. What is the proportion of males and females taking the commercial courses in your Technical School? —I think the numbers are fairly equal in the evening classes. Possibly the males have a slight advantage. In the day classes the proportion of females to males is probably about two females to one male. 28. Do you look upon those figures as significant in any way from the economic, sociological, or any other aspect?—We make the girls who are taking the day course in commerce take a course in domestic economy as well. By that means we hope to correct any tendency for them to come just for a couple of years to fit them for shorthand and typing in offices. They must take hygiene, cookery, and dressmaking if they have free places. If they are paying students they get what they pay for. 29. How 7 many girls in the day classes are free-place pupils?—ln the day technical school I think very nearly all are, but in the associated classes, which are separate, and special classes in shorthand and typewriting and pr em-writing, they are mainly paying students. 30. So that they would escape teaching in hygiene?— Yes. This class usually consists of girls, some of whom have been through the other courses and are putting in time before they get an appointment. 31. Have you formed any opinion as to whether it is wise for so many girls to be qualifying in this direction?— There is a large unsatisfied demand for them, and that means they will go into it whether you like it or not. 32. Have you art classes in your Technical School? —Yes. 33. How many students attend the art classes? —All the students in the day school have training in art which they get from our art instructors, so all attend in one sense for elementary work. Besides that we have a special class of about thirty to thirty-five students who are studying all day, and some 150 to 160 in evening classes for pure and applied art—pure art mainly. 34. Are there any other art schools here apart from the Technical School?—I do not know of any. 35. Mr. Davidson.] Have you had experience in connection with technical education in any other part of New Zealand f —No. 36. You stated that the method of payment by capitation grants for attendance at technical classes encouraged students to take popular subjects: do you refer particularly to such subjects as typewriting and shorthand? —Not necessarily. It does not exactly encourage students to take popular courses, but it encourages the Board and the Director to arrange for classes that shall be popular in order to make the show pay. That is the trouble. 37. So the method of payment by capitation grants is really used for capitation-earning purposes ? —lt is not so far as one can help it; but, at the same time, there is always a pressure in that direction, because if a class is not going to pay you have to abandon it—that is all. 38. If some other and more satisfactory method of payment were in operation, do you think, that would tend to discourage the establishment of classes that are not so satisfactory from the point of view of technical education ?—I think, at any rate, it would give the governing bodies a chance to establish an educational institution rather than a show run for commercial purposes to earn capitation. 39. Are local contributions subsidized by the_State here?— Yes, pound for pound. 40. What is your opinion as to the desirability of giving local bodies power to rate in order to provide funds for technical education, if such amounts as were raised were liberally subsidized by the State? —I suppose if fhe local bodies were elected on the parliamentary franchise it would probably amount to about the same position as at present—l mean, there would be exactly the same pressure to produce the funds necessary; but if, on the other hand, the local bodies were entirely elected by persons who had not a direct interest in the education provided, then there would be a chance that they might not see the necessity for the expenditure. 41. You think, then, that technical education is so unpopular with the masses that if they had the power they would not levy the rate? —No, I think it is the other way round —that the masses are keen enough about it; but there is just a possibility that the ratepayers would not see the necessity for large rates being levied for education purposes. 42. The Chairman.] You want to distinguish between ratepayers and electors to secure the end that Mr. Davidson has in view? —Yes. 43. Mr. Davidson.] In your opinion would it be a step in the right direction to provide for technical education by local rating if the money so raised were liberally subsidized by the State? —I am not sure that it would. It would leave the poor districts rather in a hole, and the rich districts would tend to monopolize the work. 44. If the subsidies were regulated on a graduated basis so that the poor districts would get a larger subsidy than the richer ones, would that not overcome the difficulty?— Possibly, but it seems a more complicated way than for the consolidated revenue to bear the burden straight out. 45. Would it not be fairer if all in the community contributed by means of local rating towards the upkeep of schools, so far as primary education is concerned, instead of a few liberal people who now subscribe being called upon year after year? —I was not aware that the upkeep was dependent on voluntary contributions.
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46. You know that in district high schools whatever contributions are raised locally are subsidized by the State ?—Yes. 47. These local contributions are frequently provided by the same liberal-minded people year after year? —That is so. 48. Would it not be fairer if local contributions were really made compulsory by means of "a local rate that all would have to contribute instead of the few? —I think it would be rather a mistake to do away with the possibility of people giving through their good will to institutions. 49. Have you had anything to do with the manual classes in the primary schools? —No, only with some of the students coming from the primary schools. 50. Do you find that boys who have not taken woodwork in the primary schools are as apt in the work in the technical school as those who have already taken it?— No. I think they are better, so far as we are concerned, for the training in woodwork, and the girls are the better for their training. 51. Would you advocate the retention in the primary schools of the subjects cookery and woodwork in the upper classes? —I think so. 52. The Chairman?] Who constitute the governing body of the school, and in what proportion? —Three members from the Education Board, five from the City Council, and one from the Wellington Industrial Association. 53. Are the industrial unions unrepresented?— Yes. As a matter of fact, in addition to the Board of Managers, which is the local body, we have boards of control in connection with the several different trades, and these boards of control represent the trade. There is one representative of the masters, one of the men, and generally one independent authority on the trade, besides a member of the Technical Board and myself, and these constitute the board of control for any particular trade, such as plumbing or electrical work, and in that way the trades have a decided say in the training for their own work, but not a say in the general work of the school. 54. Does the school examine in regard to plumbers for the registration of plumbers, or is that done independently?— This board of control conducts the examinations for the City Council really. 55. Complaint was made in another part of the Dominion where properly conducted examinations by experts of plumbers is carried on that that certificate of registration is not recognized if a tradesman comes here : is it not advisable to have uniformity of registration in trades in that respect I—Undoubtedly.l—Undoubtedly. It has been a difficulty for a considerable time because the different municipal bodies have not recognized the certificates which are recognized by others. 56. I suppose the City Council, having such a large representation, makes a fair contribution to your school each year ?—Yes, about £900 per annum, of which £600 is in the shape of rent of ground given and £300 is in cash. 57. Can you suggest any means by which the difficulty of playgrounds can be overcome other than by a general contribution —the consolidated revenue bearing a proportion, the local authority bearing a proportion, and the Board of Education the remainder? —That is one good way of doing it; at the same time, so far as technical schools are concerned, the probability is that if a site could be found close to a public park or playing-ground that would suffice so far as. the evening students are concerned, and it might also serve so far as the day students are concerned if the building included gymnasia and swimming-baths and that sort of thing. The public playing-grounds are only used at certain times—Wednesday and Saturday afternoons in Wellington. 58. The suggestion has also been made that there should be annual or, at least, biennial conferences of directors of technical schools in the Dominion: do you favour that? —Well, there is no uniformity of instruction, but there is no great necessity for uniformity in technical education. The more variety we have the better it is so far as I can see. Probably such a conference as you suggest would be advantageous in that the men would hear what their fellows were doing, and would have an opportunity to consult one another. William Henry Leader Foster examined on oath. (No. 162.) 1. The Chairman.] What is your position? —I am headmaster of the Petone District High School. I have been teaching in the Dominion thirty-three years. I am an M.A. of the NewZealand University, and I hold a 81-certificate. 2. I understand you appear here on behalf of the Wellington Branch of the New Zealand Educational Institute to lay their views before us?— Yes. I wish to tender evidence in regard to the classification, promotion, and appointment of teachers. The existing system of appointment and promotion is unsatisfactory to teachers, and not in the interest of efficient service. The contributing causes to this dissatisfaction are (a) the lack of any definite and expressed policy of the Education Board in the matter of appointment; (b) the power which the existing Education Act confers on School Committees of making appointments in certain cases. Any improvement in the method of appointment which will remove, in whole or in part, the dissatisfaction and consequent unrest in the teaching service will conduce to increased efficiency, and it is therefore in the interest of the State to effect an improvement if possible. On behalf of the Wellington Branch of the New Zealand Educational Institute I therefore beg to make the followingrecommendations : (a.) That the present system of appointment of teachers, in which both Education Boards and School Committees participate, be abolished, and that the power of appointment be vested in the Education Board alone, (b.) That the Education Board shall direct its School Inspectors to classify the teachers in its employ, for the purpose of promotion, basing such classification on. (1) teaching ability, (2) educational attainments, (3) length of service, (c.) That teachers should be notified confidentially of their classification by the Inspectors, and that any teacher dissatisfied with his classification should have the right of appeal to an Appeal Committee
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(to be hereafter constituted), provided such appeal be supported by the local branch of the New Zealand Educational Institute, (d.) That when a vacancy occurs in the Education Board's service the Inspectors shall recommend to the Education Hoard a teacher for promotion, such teacher to be chosen from those eligible* for promotion to the vacancy, and in order of merit according to the classification list: Provided that since a promotion scheme that is purely automatic m its action may prove impracticable in certain cases, and not in the best interests of education in a given locality, the Inspectors be vested with discretionary poyver to depart from the order of merit in the classification list, should the circumstances of the case in their judgment demand it : Provided further that reasons for such departure be given to those superseded in the classification list, (c.) That the Education Board should thereupon proceed to make the appointment in accordance with the Inspectors' recommendation. In making these recommendations the Institute feel that they conserve a basic principle of any equitable and efficient system of promotion —namely, that promotion should depend on efficiency. Appointment is practically centred in the hands of the Inspectors, who really are the only men with first-hand expert knowledge of the qualifications and abilities of teachers; and these officials, having a due regard to the responsibilities of their position, are competent and likely to administer the power thus sought to be vested in them with justice and wisdom. With reference to a Dominion scheme of promotion we venture to add the following: (1.) We do not think a Dominion scheme of promotion practicable or desirable at present. (2.) The above scheme is practicable for districts employing two or more Inspectors. (3.) The existing education districts require readjustment with a view to eliminating small districts. (4.) With the above scheme general to all education districts, a Grading Board might ultimately be set up to classify the classification lists of ail the education districts. (5.) In this way a classification list for the Dominion might be formulated. 3. Mr. Wells.] Undei the present system have any cases of canvassing come under your knowledge? —Not directly, but through the Press and by conversation with my colleagues I knowit takes place. 4. And you are of opinion that that canvassing is not in the best interests of the profession? —i am certainly of that opinion. 5. Has it also come under your notice that other than the top man lias been selected by Committees on occasion ? —Frequently. 6. What is the effect of that on the profession? —Well, it conduces to the unrest and dissatisfaction I have expressed on behalf of the Institute. It makes men feel that, while their employers and Inspectors have put them perhaps first on the list, they have been superseded by men who have been more competent in the art of canvassing. 7. Have you given any thought at all to the difficulties of grading schemes in small districts? —Yes. 8. How do you propose to get over these difficulties? —1 may say that the committee set up to consider this matter was confined by its order of reference to the Wellington District alone, but the committee felt that in order to get such a scheme as we suggested in working-order the smaller districts would need to be eliminated in favour of larger districts. 9. Has your Institute discussed at all the number of districts that the Dominion could be advantageously divided into? —I am not aware that it lias. lam not able to answ 7 er the question at first-hand knowledge. 10. If the present education districts were amalgamated so that there should be four or six education districts for the Dominion, do you think it would be possible tc evolve a satisfactory grading scheme in each district? —Personally, I have never yet seen the necessity for a Dominion scheme of promotion, but I want it to be clearly understood that I am speaking personally and am not committing the Institute to any expression of opinion. If New Zealand were divided into six districts, and promotion, schemes on the lines I have suggested were put into operation, it seems to me that the ends of a promotion scheme would have been attained, inasmuch as the machinery could be set up then to get a classification of all the teachers of the Dominion, and an interchange between one district and another would be easier than at, present. At any rate, it would not be more difficult than at present. 11. It would pave the way to it? —Yes. 12. Mr. Davidson.} In the five districts, Marlborough, Westland, Grey, Nelson, and Taranaki, there is not a single school of Grade Iff: do you think the teachers under present conditions in these districts have a fair chance of promotion?—l do not. 13. And I understand your personal opinion is that the absorption of such districts in some of the larger districts would probably secure the object aimed at —namely, to give teachers throughout the Dominion something like equality in opportunity for promotion? —That is so. 14. Mr. Pirani.} Instead of this suggestion as to the appointment of teachers, do you not think it would be a politic thing that the Hoards in sending one name to the Committee should consult the Committee in the fullest sense, explain to the Committee the reason for sending that name on the full qualifications and reasons for that candidate being appointed to the post, and that they should hear any objections from the Committee before finally confirming the appointment : would not that rather tend to help the teacher in his position than if he is just put into the school without any consultation with the Committee at all?— Personally, no. 15. I will give you a reason for changing your No : Suppose the bead teacher in a school was a red-hot Orangeman, and the assistant to lie sent to the Orangeman was a Roman Catholic, do you not think it would be wise to take the Committee's recommendation to alter that appointment?— I take it the recommendation of my Institute is that, where in the opinion of the Inspectors there were extraordinary circumstances demanding the supersession of the promotion list, that would follow and would settle that difficulty as well as the one you are suggesting.
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16. Supposing the Inspectors do not know, are there not sometimes circumstances connected with a.teacher that the Inspectors do not know of? —1 am not able to answer that question; but who would know 1 17. The local people would know what the local man is? —If you put it that way I should still stick to my opinion that it was highly desirable the local people should not be consulted. 18. Have you had any experience of the working- of the system of classification in existence, in Wanganui at the present time? —No. 19. Do you know the number of marks that are awarded now for the different qualifications? —No. 20. For instance, for teaching thirty marks out of a hundred are given, and for educational standing twenty out of a hundred : do you not think that is a rather unfair- proportion—that teaching ability ought to be more than thirty and educational standing ought to be less than twenty? —I would say that teaching ability and educational attainments practically cover the whole of the claims of a teacher for promotion. You will notice in our report we do not submit any definite figures, but I should say fifty marks was decidedly too low. 21. Then for organization there are ten marks, discipline ten, attention to environment ten, and personality ten; so that really eighty marks out of the hundred are for teaching. But the question was between the actual work of instruction and teaching and educational standing : do you not think that educational standing is ranked too high?- —Personally, I would not be prepared to lay so much stress on educational standing. 22. Not as much as they lay in Wanganui?—l have not considered it sufficiently to answer the question offhand, but I agree that teaching-ability should count very high, in a promotion scheme. 23. Do you not think, in view of the probable adoption of some such system of marks, that it would be wise for the Teachers' Institutes throughout New Zealand to consider this whole question carefully and make recommendations? —They have only given a general expression of opinion. George Macmorran examined on oath. (No. 163.) 1. The Chairman.] What is your position ?—I am headmaster of the Terrace School, and have been so for twenty-eight years. 2. What is your educational qualification ? —DI. 3. You are one of the representatives of the Wellington Branch of the New Zealand Educational Institute ?—Yes. The subject committed to the committee, of which I w 7 as chairman, was the syllabus and examination of teachers. We, have prepared certain resolutions, which I will read later. Previous to going through these I would like to preface them by a few 7 words. I, think generally that, with certain reservations, w r e are satisfied with the syllabus. That is the general opinion, I fancy, but recently I made it my business to look through the report of the meetings of the New Zealand Educational Institute for suggestions helpful to drawing up a report, and the help I got was exceedingly meagre indeed. For several years past there seems to have been exceedingly few suggestions made by way of amendment. lam satisfied that we can overtake the syllabus under tw 7 o conditions : first, that there is a reasonable interpretation by the Inspectors —and during the last few years I have heard very little indeed of any undue screwing-up of the demands of the Inspectors ; and, second, that the staff ought to be fairly efficient. I would not say highly efficient, because a fairly efficient staff will be able to meet the position. Our suggestions are not very numerous, and their object is to secure greater thoroughness in connection with certain points of school-work. We consider the arithmetic of Standards V and VI to be too much to be adequately and thoroughly done in the twelve months ; further, that the geography (A), which is physical and mathematical geography, is too difficult for children of the age of twelve, thirteen, and fourteen. In dealing with arithmetic we thought we should regard the subject as a general training. Much of the arithmetic boys have to make themselves acquainted with in workshops and offices after leaving the schools must be regarded as technical; but if they have the necessary grounding in the principles of arithmetic there is no difficulty, it seems to me, in a fairly intelligent lad picking up the technical arithmetic that is necessary. If we make certain recommendations in the way of omissions we must not forget that a considerable percentage of boys and girls now pass on to the secondary schools, or district high schools or technical schools where these subjects omitted may be studied. I may say that the recommendations I am about to lay before you are based on the new regulations which will not be coming into operation until March, 1913. Arithmetic : Standard IV—That in Standard IV peck, bushel, and quarter, and fractions generally be omitted. Standard V — That the requirements in this class be limited to (a) vulgar fractions (operations to be limited to examples in which the results are fractions, with a denominator of not more than two figures, while in addition and subtraction the common denominator should not exceed 24) ; (6) simple proportion ; (c) simple interest (years only— no fractional periods) ; (d) bills of parcels ; (c) decimal notation. Standard VI —That the requirements in this class be limited to (a) decimals (not recurring) ; (b) simple interest (for years and months, not days), commission, insurance, commercial discount ; (c) partnership ; (d) profit and loss as defined in the present syllabus ; (c) rectangles, triangles (base and height given) ; (/) square root (by factors) ; (g) easy papering and carpeting ; (h) content of rectangular solids. General: (1.) That the Department do not issue cards for standards under Standard VI. (2.) That children sitting for a proficiency certificate be allowed a choice of, say, five questions out of eight set in arithmetic. (3.) That geography (course A) for Standard V and Standard. VI is too difficult and ought to be simplified. (4.) That drawing with instruments as required for the Scholarship Examination is excessive and should be simplified. (5.) That the Department of Education be recommended to issue a book of suggestions (apart from the syllabus) similar to that issued by the Department of Education, London. (6.) That more free class-books should be supplied to country schools where one teacher has all the standards. (7.) That in the interests of small schools the Inspectors in each district should be so circumstanced that they
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may devote the necessary time to assist and direct teachers whose experience is limited. Scholarships : That scholarships be done away with, and that the money so set free be devoted to assist the' further education of deserving rural scholars. Recommendations for teacher's examinations, which are based on the new regulations which will not come into operation until March, 1913 : (1.) That in place of the present requirements for Class D (a) one group may be taken in any one year, or (b) the first section be groups 1 and 2, and that groups 3or 4 may be taken in separate years. (2.) Seeing that practical courses are required in the subjects of group 4, division 1, and that at the present time it is impossible to get such practical courses outside the centres, opportunities must be made by the authorities for those outside teachers to obtain tuition in those subjects. (3.) That in the elementary hygiene of Class D all the physiology be omitted except what is necessary for the full understanding of the first-aid course. (4.) That when an extra subject is taken in place of vocal music, the marks assigned for it be added towards the aggregate for group 3. (5.) That marks be assigned to each subject in groups 1 and 4as in groups 2 and 3, and that the minimum aggregate for a pass in each group be declared. (6.) That the Department be recommended to issue a list of text-books suitable for the requirements of the D and C certificates. There is one point in connection with the staffing of schools which I personally have always considered an anomaly : Where a school reaches Grade 9b, having increased its average attendance by fifty, it receives an additional assistant plus a pupil-teacher; when it reaches 9c (with the same increase in attendance) a pupil-teacher only is added; 'while with a further increase of fifty (which brings the school into Grade 10) two assistants are added. It seems to me it would be very much more equitable to introduce one of these assistants at Grade 9c (551 600). If the scale is being considered I would strongly urge this point upon the attention of the Commission. Number of Increase of Staff. , A —. , Increase of , A , Average Attendance. Grade. Asgigtantg _ Pupil- Attendance. Pupilteachers. teachers. 501-550 .. .. .. IXb 7 5 50 1 1 551-600 .. .. .. IXc 7 6 50 .. 1 601-650 .. .. .. Xa 9 6or more 50 2 ? 4. Mr. Wells.] We have been told that the boys leaving Standard VI now are not as accurate in their arithmetic as they were ten or fifteen years ago : what is your opinion as a, headmaster of long experience? —Ten or fifteen years ago the boys who left us and went into business houses were boys who probably had spent a couple of years in the Sixth Standard or a year in the Seventh Standard. 5. The comparison is not a fair one ?—No. I say the boys in Standard VI to-day are as good as the boys of Standard VI fifteen years ago. 6. Would you make any allowance for free books in abolishing scholarships ?—We have not considered that question. lam not greatly in favour of free books for primary schools, and Ido not know that I should be for secondary schools either. 7. On the whole you think not ? —I think not. 8. What is your opinion of the value of woodwork in our schools ? —I think it is a desirable thing for lads to get a year or a couple of years' training in woodwork if it is allied with drawing. 9. Your experience is favourable ? —Undoubtedly. 10. Have you given any thought to the question of continuation schools ?—Not much. 11. You know there is a big leakage at present of boys who do not pass Standard VI ? —I understand there is a considerable leakage. 12. The Chairman.] We have been told it is 40 per cent, between Standards IV and VI and over 20 per cent, between Standards 111 and IV ? —Of course, I have not had that experience in my school; but, assuming these figures to be correct, must there not be some compulsion to cope with the leakage ? 13. That is what we want to know from you ? —lt seems to me it would be a desirable thing. There should be some power whereby these lads could be compelled to attend continuation schools. 14. Mr. Wells.] With regard to the term examinations headmasters are required to hold, do you think they might be reduced to two without loss of efficiency ? —I think I should be inclined to stick to the three. 15. Mr. Kirk.] You have not dealt with the question of nature-study. Would you kindly tell us your opinion as to the efficacy of nature-study in schools ?—I must say that eight years ago, when the syllabus was first introduced, it rather alarmed some of us who had not been trained to use these terms, but we have since discovered that it is not so very alarming. It is very much on the lines of the old object-lessons, and it is to be remembered that we are each year getting into the schools those who have been students in the training colleges, many of whom are qualified to deal with this subject. Therefore I am more hopeful now than I was eight years ago with regard to this subject. 16. What have you to say regarding the teaching of history and civics ? —A good deal of the average teaching of history is a very barren occupation. In late years we have been giving a good deal of attention to the teaching of civics, which is a very desirable thing. 17. The Chairman.] Is it not most desirable that children coming from school should know how to exercise their votes when they come to legal age ?—There is no gainsaying the fact. 18. Mr. Kirk.] Have you any recognized text-book upon which the teaching of civics is based ?— We have no such book. We have drawn up a syllabus. 19. Is there any necessity, to your mind, why teachers should know more about civics than they do ?—I have not desired to give the impression that members of my staff are not qualified, so far as knowledge is concerned. 20. Even the younger teachers ? —Yes. Of course, from Standard 111 upwards all teachers in my school are assistants. 21. Do you think it is desirable that there should be some book, or that each teacher should be left to apply his own individuality or knowledge in the matter ? —I think it would be desirable to have
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a compilation with brief notes indicating the kind of information desirable to be given to these young people. 22. Would you go the length of saying it is highly desirable or even highly necessary ?—I am not prepared to say it is highly necessary, but I think it is desirable. 23. Mr. Davidson.] Before issuing regulations for the grading and classification of teachers do you think that at least a year's notice should always be given ?—Undoubtedly. 24. In regard to the examination for the D certificate, would you go so far as to say that a teacher might be allowed to take any three or four subjects in one year ?—I do not see why, so long as he takes the necessary elementary subjects at one time, he should not take one subject a year. 25. You think that every encouragement should be given to the uncertificated teacher in the backblocks to become qualified by examination ?—That is so, and the probability is that one who takes the subjects in a leisurely way is likely to be more thoroughly grounded than a man who scampers through ten or eleven subjects at one time. 26. In regard to these examinations it is stated that a candidate will be required to show a standard of attainment of knowledge of the subjects mentioned in group 1. Would you prefer that marks should be given, and that the teacher should know exactly the minimum number of marks required in order to secure a pass ? —lnstead of the vague term " good " we should prefer to see, as in groups 2 and 3, the figures set out. We recommend that there should be a declaration of the minimum number. 27. Do you think it is possible for many teachers in these out-of-the-way places to take practical classes in first aid ? —To my mind, no. 28. How would you overcome that difficulty ?—Some of the Boards are solving this question, I believe, by calling together their teachers during the last week of the Christmas holidays. 29. Do you think it is a fair thing to ask a teacher to give up his holidays in order that he might take this practical work ?—Looking backward on my own experience as a younger teacher, I should think that the giving up of the last week of the holidays, with the advantage of an extra week given, would be no hardship. 30. Would one week be sufficient to satisfy the requirements in practical work ?■ —In first-aid it might be. 31. The regulations provide for twenty hours' instruction for D and eighty hours for C as the minimum requirements : how could that be undertaken in a week ?—Eighty hours could not. I think that the last week of the holidays, plus an extra week granted, would solve the problem. 32. There are many ambitious teachers in out-of-the-way districts who hold D certificates and who are anxious to become more highly qualified and obtain the C certificate, but the requirement for that is eighty hours in practical work : how would you solve that ?—I do not see any solution at the present moment. 33. Do you not think that a partial certificate might be granted, and that the practical work in science might be held over until the teacher is in a position to take a science course and overtake the requirements of the practical work ? —I think if the teacher had passed in all the other subjects except science that a partial certificate might very well meet the case. 34. Do you not think that every encouragement should be given to all classes of teachers to become as thoroughly qualified as possible ? —That does not admit of any argument. 35. Mr. Pirani.] Do you not think that some recognition should be made to those who are at present called" scholarship-holders " in towns, in the shape of, at any rate, giving them sufficient to purchase their books and meet other expenses connected with secondary education ?—No. 36. You put the child of the rich man and the child of the poor man on the same footing as regards facilities for securing secondary education ? —Undoubtedly. 37. And drive the poor man's boy out of the school altogether ?—My experience is that it is not doing so. 38. Is it not the primary idea of scholarships that equal opportunity should be given ?—The scholarship always goes to the best boy. 39. Irrespective of the social position of the boy ?—That is so. 40. Was not the idea originally that facilities should be given to those who could not otherwise go to the secondary schools ? —The first idea was to encourage the poor scholar i. 41. Do you not think that instead of abolishing scholarships facilities should be extended to clever boys, whether the children of poor or wealthy parents, to go right through to the University, and that in fact the monetary value of the scholarships should be increased in order to make it worth the while of a lad going in for them ?—No. 42. Do you not think it is an advantage to the community that the best brains, whether coming from a working-man's home or a rich man's home, should be given opportunities of development ? — It is no doubt a fact that it is an advantage to the community that the best brains, whether children of rich or poor, should be developed to the greatest extent. 43. Do you not think that there should be a system of scholarship, I do not say by competitive examination, but a system of scholarship by selection or examination whereby those who cannot afford to pursue higher education would be enabled to do so ?—I have not considered that aspect of the question. 44. At any rate, in the country districts, your experience is that the cleverest boys do not come from the wealthiest families ?—As often as not that is so. 45. Even if they are equal, do you not think that the abolishing of the scholarships altogether will have the effect of discounting the poorer class ?—Not outside of the towns. We recommend that the funds so set free outside the towns should be given to assist deserving rural scholars. lam satisfied that the headmasters of those rural schools, plus the Inspectors, could determine which were the most deserving boys, and such should receive encouragement.
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46. Why not give similar encouragement in the towns —not necessarily to the same extent, but sufficient to purchase school-books and other things that are necessary to the course of education to "be undertaken ?—The same necessity, it seems to me, does not exist in the towns. 47. Is there not a temptation at the present time for parents in the towns to send their boys and .girls, clever as they are, to work instead of giving them secondary education ? —A very strong temptation. James Costin Webb examined on oath. (No. 164.) 1. The Chairman.] What is your position ? —I am headmaster of the Normal School, and have been so engaged for the past six years. Previous to that I was for eighteen years in the service of the Wellington Education Board in various capacities. I have been headmaster of several of the Board's schools. I hold aBl certificate, and am a B.A. of the New Zealand University. 2. You also represent the Wellington Branch of the New Zealand Educational Institute, and have a statement to make on behalf of that body ? —Yes. The Wellington Branch of the New Zealand Educational Institute begs to recommend —(1) That the minimum in every grade (Schedule 2, Parts 1 to 5) be increased by £20, proceeding by annual increments of £10, for nine succeeding- years ; (2) that the principal woman assistant in schools of from Grade 7 upwards should hold equal rank and equal salary with the second assistant; (3) that all married assistants shall receive house allowance on the same scale as head teachers ; (4) that no teacher shall be reduced in salary owing to a reduction in grade of his school through falling attendance. In support of these recommendations we submit tabulated statements, also certain general considerations. With trifling exceptions these tabulated statements refer entirely to other branches of the Public Service. Recommendation 2is urged as affording special inducement to those women who are likely to remain longer in the service, and thus to make fuller return for the expense to the State in maintaining them in the lower grades. Recommendation 4is urged on the ground that the causes of reduction are not within the control of the teacher, who is thus at present penalized through no fault of his own. In no other branch of the Public Service is such a principle allowed to operate. Nor is this hardship always merely of a temporary nature ; it is possible —indeed one case at least is under review in this district at the present time —for a reduction (of £30 in the case of the head teacher and £30 or £15 in the case of the assistants) to be inflicted during the last years of the head teacher's prolonged service; retiring-allowance is reckoned upon the salary of these last years, and the teacher is penalized throughout the years of his retirement. General considerations : (1.) (a) The various public servants mentioned in the foregoing tables proceed from grade to grade either automatically by length of service or by passing the Civil Service Examination; (b) the teacher's only means of passing from one grade to another is that of appointment to a vacancy after competition,, which is often keen and brings in its train the evils of a personal canvass. (2.) (a) The ordinary public servant does not necessarily increase appreciably in personal fitness from year to year; (b) the teacher's whole course of service involves continuous study, by which means his work becomes of gradually increasing value to the State. The nature of his work demands that he shall keep himself abreast of all the newest methods, or fail hopelessly in the struggle for advancement. (3.) Social custom demands that he shall maintain in himself and in those who may be dependent on him a decent standard of living in such matters as house, dress, social engagements, &c. (4.) The purchasing-power of money to-day is less than when the existing scale of salaries was introduced. (5.) Contrary to popular theory, his hours of work are long, and his work during those hours unremitting—absence from duty, even for a few minutes only, cannot be allowed except in cases of extreme urgency. Preparation for and completion of the daily lessons keeps him employed long hours when the class is not actually present. His evenings and Saturday mornings are, as a rule, taken up with study enforced upon him by regulations or by the exigencies of the competition already referred to. (6.) It is sometimes urged that the teacher enjoys a large measure of holidays ; but it should be remembered that, while these intervals are a necessity to himself if he is to avoid a breakdown in health, the measure of holidays is fixed by the physical limitations of the scholars as much as by his own. Moreover, even during his holiday period, if it is wisely spent, it costs him more to live than when at work. (7.) To those who may think that the teacher's work is easy and his pay adequate we put this query —" What means the present dearth of teachers in the Dominion, and why do we not find a host of applicants tumbling over one another in their rush for advertised positions ? " (8.) One sign of inequality of work and salary is afforded in the fact that in the Wellington District in one grade alone (that of the secondary assistants in eight district high schools) there have been as many as twentytwo changes in the staff in four years, in addition to the employment of a large number of relieving teachers. (9.) The teacher has to face the difficult task of pleasing many masters —parents, Committees, head teachers, Inspectors, Boards. (10.) The teacher's work is more intellectual, less mechanical, than that of any other public servant mentioned in the comparative tables we have submitted. (11.) Finally, while we believe that these comparative tables speak loudly in our behalf, we are content to rest our recommendations on the sound basis of the actual value of our work to the State. We consider that the time has now arrived when the estimate oft reiterated in Parliament, in the Press, from the public platform, and from other and varied sources as to the superior importance and worth of the teacher's work should receive their confirmation in the practical shape, of a more equitable remuneration. 3. Mr. Wells.] Have you any idea of what the total additional cost of the recommendations would be ? —We discussed that question and came to the conclusion that it was not our concern. We based our recommendation on the worth of our work to the. State. 4. It is the business of the Commission, inasmuch as we are directed to discover where economy could be effected ? —We have not gone into the matter at very great length. Supposing this came into force next year it would mean no""great*additional cost, because the new scale which would then be made would find the great majority of teachers just where the present scale findsyhem.
J. C. WEBB.]
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5. But there would be a very considerable annual increase. You suggest an increment of £10 annually for nine successive years ? —That is so. 6. Assuming that there are 4,468 teachers it would give an annual increment of £44,000 ? —I do not see that, because the grades will overlap. At present they do not. 7. Do you know the proportion of women employed in the other callings you have quoted ?—-No. 8. Do you think it is quite fair to take the average and make a comparison in that case ? Do you not think it would be fairer to compare men with men ? I mean, by including these 1,887 women do you not think you are rather destroying the value of your figures and the comparisons you have worked out ?—I can give the proportions in several, but not in all of the callings mentioned. 9. Take the Post and Telegraph ?—I cannot give the proportion of men and women there. 10. Do you not think it is necessary, for the comparisons to be of any value, to have that knowledge ?—I do not think we are comparing the sexes. We are dealing with the value of the work to the State. At the same time I should be very much surprised to find that the preponderance of women in the teaching profession was very much greater than in the Post and Telegraph Department. 11. With regard to your second recommendation, has the Institute considered the question as to which woman assistant should be regarded as the principal ?—lt is usually the first woman who comes into the school. 12. Do you not think as a general rule that the infant-mistress should be considered the first woman assistant in the school ? —I think the infant-mistress should not be considered as an assistant at all, but as the occupant of a special position. This matter has been considered by the women teachers, and they have agreed that it is a fair thing in the case of a woman who does not marry and leave after her seventh or eighth year that she should have some reward in the shape of a higher salary. 13. Do you not think that the infant-mistress does the most onerous work among the women teachers of a school ?—Yes. 14. Mr. Kirk.] You read us an extract from a firm offering £1 for boys. Do you know if that firm has paid £1 per week to any boys ?—No. 15. Would you be surprised to learn that the £1 has not proved a great inducement towards getting boys ?—I would be surprised to know that boys were difficult to get, but it has always to be remembered that the birth-rate has decreased. 16. Is it fair to quote an instance like that without telling us what the result is ? —The offer is not old enough for me to give you any figures. 17. Has this come under your notice as a headmaster ? —lt was sent to me as one of the committee dealing with the question of salaries. 18. Could you supply any boys now who are in a position to take up an offer of work at £1 a week ? —1 dare say I could. 1.9. Supposing £2 a week was offered, would the wage have anything to do with the supply of boys ? —It would attract boys to commercial occupations instead of them taking up the teaching profession. 20. Has it done so ? —The offer is not old enough. 21. Do you know how many of these men who go into business have to go through the Bankruptcy Court within a year ? —No. 22. You did not consider that ?—I did to some extent. 23. Do you think that the basis of payment in one business should be the basis of payment made in another business ? —lt depends upon the faculties brought to bear in earning the salary. Our opinion has been throughout that the faculty which demands the employment of intellect rather than mere muscle should be paid for more highly. 24. Do you think that muscle is the only thing required in an engine-driver ?—No. I mean that our employment is more intellectual and less mechanical. We have not said that there is no intellect employed in any of the other branches of work to which we have referred. We merely say that our employment is more intellectual and less mechanical. That is the only claim we have made. 25. The Chairman.] In other words, that the bulk of your activities are on the intellectual side ? —That is so. 26. Mr. Pirani.] Would you say that the bulk of the activities of a ship's officer were on the muscular side ?—The comparison witlj.ship's officer was not intended in that way at all. 27. Mr. Kirk.] Have you considered the question of reducing the strenuousness of the teacher's life and so allowing others to come in ? —To do so would be to lower the value of the finished product. You would not get the worth of your money in the long-run. You would have men and women less competent to do the work of teaching. 28. Has it been considered ?—Yes. 29. Do you know the average salaries paid to males in your profession ?—Excluding pupil-teachers the average for the Dominion for males is £196, but if you exclude the lower grades, Grade 0 and Grade 1, the average rises to £201. 30. Have you made a comparison with the average salaries paid in other walks in life ? —I cannot give you the average salary for the whole of the service. The tables I have submitted take a lad through any of these several departments to the end of his seventh year, and show how he stands then. Beyond that we cannot go. 31. Do you consider that in the education profession there should be as between men and women equal pay for equal work ?—lf the work is equal the pay should be equal. 32. If a woman did better work than a man, what about that ?—She should be better paid. 33. Is that the considered opinion of the Institute you represent ? —I cannot give you the opinion of the Institute, because it has not been discussed in connection with this matter. 34. Mr. Pirani.] Do you consider there is a greater strain on a teacher than on an engine-driver ?— Yes.
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35. Have you ever ridden on a railway-engine I—No.1 —No. 36. In regard to your comparison of these different occupations, have you considered the point that the reason why the men in the teaching profession are not better paid is because money has been used to level up the women ?—I do not know that we have considered that. 37. Have you compared the wages paid to the women in the Telephone Exchange with those of .women in the teaching profession ? —I have only the average of the Telegraph Office. 38. How does that average compare ?—We have preferred to compare the Telephone Exchange cadette with the teacher. We have not compared her with her compeers in the Post and Telegraph. 39. Do you know any girl in the Telephone who is getting £200 a year ?—No. 40. Do you know of any woman who is getting it in the teaching profession ?—I think so. 41. Where does the comparison come in between the Telegraph cadette and the woman teacher ?— We make the comparison only at the time she first gets £100. 42. Do you not know that in the Telephone Exchange the salary absolutely stops at £100 unless the officer gets a position as supervisor ? —That is so. 43. Therefore it is not a fair comparison ?—Yes, up to the end of the seventh year. 44. Supposing a Telephone cadette keeps on for twenty years, would the comparison show as badly under your table ? —I am not able to say whether the majority in the Exchange keep on for a number of years. 45. Do you know the wages that are paid to women clerks in the Postal Department ? —Not separately. 46. Do you know that recently a woman was retired on superannuation from the Postal Department after forty years' service, and that her last salary was considerably under £150 ?—I do not. 47. Do you not think that the Institute in their researches might have gone further and deeper into the Government service than they have ?—The Institute have not made it so much a question of the amount of money paid as what is asked of the worker. 48. Do you think it is fair that a headmaster who is a single man should get a house allowance when his first assistant who is a married man does not ?—No. 49. Do you not think that the house allowance should be attached not to the position, but to the condition of the teacher—whether he is married or single ? —I think so. 50. Did the New Zealand Educational Institute in January discuss the question of the revision of the scale of salaries ?—I am unable to say. 51. If I told you it did not you will not contradict me ? —I cannot if Ido not know. 52. Have you the authority of the New Zealand Educational Institute to bring forward this question, when they have not considered the matter of the revision of teachers' salaries ? —I appear as a delegate of the Wellington Branch of the New Zealand Educational Institute. 53. Has the New Zealand Educational Institute, which represents the teachers of the Dominion, asked that this question should be brought before this Commission ?—That I have not been directed to say. 54. Can you say ? —I cannot say. 55. The Chairman,] But your branch has authorized you to bring it before the Commission ?— Yes. 56. You as headmaster of a, school claim the right to dispose of your staff as you like, having regard to the efficiency of the school ? —That is so. 57. If you have an efficient infant-mistress and you place her in charge of a standard where she gives satisfaction, and the Board gives you another infant-mistress, what is the position of the teacher transferred ? —The incomer would get the higher salary. 58. Do you consider it fair, when for the efficiency of the school you have taken a teacher from one position and placed her in another, that she should suffer in salary and status ?—The question answers itself, because lam led to believe that the position is practically determined by the salary. It is only in extreme cases that a high-salaried teacher would be put to do lower work. 59. Supposing you have an infant-mistress who is incapable of taking a standard, and you have in charge of a standard one who has been an infant-mistress and is giving better work as an assistant, is it right that she should lose the rating of an infant-mistress ?—I have not thought of that. Subsequently the witness forwarded the following comparison of salaries : Of the total adult teachers employed (i.e., from £90 a year upwards) the men are 37 per cent, of the whole, the women 63 per cent. In the Post and Telegraph Department (Clerical Division) from £90 a year upwards the men are 75 J - per cent, of the whole, the women 24| per cent. Using the same basis (£9O a year and upwards) among the teachers, the average salary of a man is £196 35., and of a woman £118 6s. for all grades of school. In the Post and Telegraph Department the average salary of a man is £195 and oi a woman £109 6s. Taking men and women together the teacher's average salary is £1.48 Bs., all grades of school included ; in the Post and Telegraph Department the combined average salary is £163 7s. Taking the figures for women only, the average salary of a pupil-teacher is £4.4 7s. ; in the Post and Telegraph Department below £90 the average is £80 Is. It must be remembered that the percentage of women in the Post and Telegraph Department is to the percentage of women in the teaching profession as 7is to 1&. The Telephone Exchange, a, purely mechanical branch, employs 46 per cent, of the total women in the Post and Telegraph. Department. I have given the figures for the Post and Telegraph Department as it employs a larger number of women than any other branch of the Civil Service. The figures for other Departments are not easily available.
E. HELYER.]
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Wellington, Tuesday, 9th July, 1912. Elizabeth Helyer examined on oath. (No. 165.) 1. The Chairman.] Your position ?—I hold a Dl certificate, and have been headmistress of the Mount Cook Girls' School for six years and a half. Prior to my appointment as headmistress I was first assistant in the school for twenty-six years. Previous to that I was employed in the old Te Aro School, before it was a Board school. 2. In what capacity do you appear before the Commission ?—I appear on behalf of the Women Teachers' Association of Wellington. On their behalf I wish to suggest some modifications that in the interests of girls we consider desirable in our present excellent system of education. We are of opinion that every girl should, at some period of her school career, receive a course of instruction in domestic science. At present girls in this district are receiving really good instruction in cooking. We wish to see this course extended to include laundry-work and dressmaking. In order that there may be time to devote to these subjects, we suggest that girls shall not be required to take the present course in arithmetic, much, of which will be of no practical use to a girl after leaving school. For the inspection of infant schools and' the special w 7 ork of girls we consider it desirable that women Inspectors should be appointed. Few men make good Inspectors of infant schools, and it is absurd to expect men to examine needlework. We are pleased to know that a woman Medical Inspector of Schools has been appointed, and we think that this appointment should be followed by the appointment of women to give instruction to girls in physical culture and swimming. At present these subjects are not receiving the attention they deserve. There are only nine schools in this district that take swimming and life-saving. Personally, I wish to protest against the present method of keeping growing children, even under the most favourable conditions of seating, lighting, and ventilation, sitting in desks for five hours a day. More time should be devoted to work that would take the children out of their desks. The women of this district wish to affirm the principle that older girls should be taught by women. It is well known that girls affect manners before men that they would not presume to try before women. For the same reasons that we believe older boys should be taught by men, we consider that older girls should be taught by women. What is at the present time termed " co-education "is a misnomer, in that, while girls and boys attend the same school, they are separated as much as is possible. Girls and boys are allotted different playgrounds, and in the class-room the girls sit on one side of the room and the boys on the other, except for purposes of punishment. In schools where the number of pupils is sufficient the boys are placed in charge of a man, and the girls in charge of a woman, in separate rooms. Some headmasters prohibit girls and boys speaking on their way to and from school. Do not all these restrictions show that girls and boys should, as far as possible, be taught in separate departments or in separate schools ? From a long experience in a girls' school lam of opinion that a separate school is the ideal method. It is also undesirable to encourage competition between the sexes. How humiliating it must be for a boy to be beaten in a subject by a girl ! Seeing that women can successfully conduct secondary schools, there can be no question respecting their ability to take charge of primary schools. In respect to the status of women, there is less dissatisfaction in this district than in some other centres of the Dominion, owing to the fact that the infant-mistress in the large schools takes the third position on the staff, and that there are several good appointments for women in the Mount Cook Girls' and the Mount Cook Infants', which are separate schools. The position of first assistant mistress in a mixed school is not considered satisfactory, in that these women are responsible for the sewing and drill of the girls of two or three standards, and are also responsible for the supervision of the girls' playground, and for the general conduct of the girls. In addition to this, they in some cases take a Fifth or Sixth Standard class, and receive only the salary of the fifth or sixth assistant on the staff. We wish it to be clearly understood that we are not competing with men for these positions, for we recognize that the men in the service arc not too well paid, but we consider that in our sphere we are as useful to the State as the men teachers. We think that in large city schools two upper positions, equal in salary to the positions of the first and second assistant masters, should be allotted to women. As women form so large a proportion of the teaching profession, and from their experience they must be qualified to decide what work and how much work is suitable for girls, we regret that the Minister overlooked the fact that an experienced woman teacher would have been of much service on this Commission. 3. Mr. Wells.] From what age do you think that boys and girls should be taught separately ? — I only suggest the older girls, because the younger children are now usually taught by women. 1 should say that the separation should start from the Fourth Standard, but certainly in the Fifth and Sixth Standards. 4. Have any instances come under your observation where girls have suffered through being taught by men ? —I always consider —and I know that many other women in this district consider —that the behaviour of the girls in schools where they are separated is better. At the meeting held in connection with my appearance before this Commission, one teacher said that wdien she separated the girls from the boys she always found them easier to control than if the boys and girls were together. 5. Do you think the infant-mistressship should be the highest woman's position on the staff ?, — Y 7 es. I think the infant-mistress has more responsibility, seeing that she has to take charge of the younger women in the school and, of course, train them. 6. Throughout this district is the infant-mistress the best-paid woman teacher on the staff ?— Yes. 7. Can women teachers in this district hold a Grade 4 school ? —I believe so. 8. Are you suggesting that women Inspectors should take the work of examination throughout the school, or that they should confine themselves to the work of the lower classes and the inspection of the sewing ?—I specially mentioned inspection rather than examination, because I think infants require only inspection, not examination.
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9. But do you suggest that they should take the standard examination also ? —There would be no objection to their doing that. My point was for the examination of the special work of girls and that of the infants. 10. Have the women teachers of your branch considered the question of a grading scheme for promotion-? —The women specially have not, but we always consider whatever is done by the Institute. 11. The Chairman.] Have you yourself given consideration to it ?—Not to any large extent. 12. Mr. Wells.] Can you say whether the women teachers generally are favourable to a grading scheme for the purpose of promotion ?—I am sure they would be, because our own Institute has just affirmed the principle. 13. Supposing such a scheme were brought into operation, do you think the women teachers would be prepared to take their chances in competition with men for all positions, and have the provision in the regulations by which three assistantships in the first six, and one out of the first three, are reserved for women abolished ? —There are certain positions that must belong to women —for instance, those of infant-mistress and first woman assistant. There should be no competition with men about those positions. I think certain positions should be allotted to women, and we should not have to enter into competition with men for them. 14. Then chiefly the head-teacherships should be reserved for men ? —ln large mixed schools, but not if you have separate schools. 15. Mr. Pirani.] Have you ever heard any statements made by teachers as to the failure of a girls' school under our present system of education ?—No. I only know the school with which 1 am associated. 16. Have you ever heard of copying being rife in a girls' school, discipline being bad, and general complaints being made as to the whole of the management of the school ?—I have never heard any such complaint. 17. Mr. Davidson.] Does not your proposal with regard to the salaries of the upper teachers mean that as far as salaries are concerned you should have a separate classification for men and for women ? — Probably that would be the result. 18. Do you not know that when that was advocated some years ago the women teachers themselves really prevented such a scheme from coming into operation ?—I think the women considered their work of as much value as that of the men, but knew that they could not get the same salary, and so did not ask for it. 19. Do you not know that the women objected strongly to a separate scale of salaries for each sex ? —I understand that they did. 20. If you had a separate scale, would not that give an opportunity of contrasting the salaries ? For instance, suppose that the first woman on a staff received £180 and the first man £250, would not the contrast be very marked and easily seen ?—Of course it would be easily seen, but the point is what salary are you going to give women. 21. Would you not have a better opportunity of putting forward the cause of women if it could be seen exactly where they stood with regard to salaries ?—Miss Goad is to deal on our behalf with the question of salaries. I have not gone into the statistics with regard to the salaries of women. lam speaking more of the position they occupy in the school. 22. In what respect is the position of the first assistant women on the staff unsatisfactory ?—I gave the reasons in my opening statement. They do much work, yet take a low position on the staff. 23. Take a mixed school of Grade 10, what is the salary usually paid to the first woman assistant on the staff ? Must it not be not less than £210 ?—That is so. That is the woman, I understand, who takes the position of infant-mistress in our district. 24. Is that position unsatisfactory ?—Yes. That is the position I meant —the woman who is recognized as the first woman assistant. 25. What work would the woman you refer to be doing ? —The woman you seem to term the second assistant is the woman I mean —the one who takes charge of all the girls. 26. What standard class will she have charge of ?—Sometimes she takes a standard as high as the Fifth or Sixth. 27. Suppose, then, that she is in charge of the Fourth, Fifth, or Sixth Standard, is she not merely a class-teacher ?—No. The infant-mistress is looking after the infants and the young teachers. The woman you call the second assistant takes charge of the sewing ; she is responsible for the conduct of the girls, and she also teaches a class. 1 consider that her work corresponds more to that of the headmaster. 28. Who has charge of the work of the school ?—Probably the headmaster draws up the time-tables and examines the school, but this woman has duties every day with regard to the supervision of the girls. 29. But is not the headmaster responsible for drawing up all the schemes of work and time-tables, and allotting the duties of the members of his staff ? —Certainly. 30. If in a school such as we are considering the infant-mistress has complete charge of the infant department, and we have a man in charge of Standard VI, and another man in charge o; Standard V, and a woman in charge of Standard IV, is that the woman you call the first assistant ?—Yes. 31. Suppose the work of the school is arranged in that way, she is a class-teacher —she is responsible for the sewing of the girls in her own class. The infant-mistress and her assistants are responsible for the sewing of the girls in Standards V and VI. Each standard-below IV has a woman teacher, and each woman is responsible for the sewing of the girls of her own class. Would that arrangement not be more satisfactory than the system of making the second woman on the staff responsible for so much of other people's work ?—I do not think the infant-mistress should be responsible for the sewing. 1 think she has enough to do in connection with the infants.
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32. But is she not responsible in a great many cases ?—I do not know of one school where the infant-mistress is responsible for Fifth and Sixth Standard teaching. 33. Has she not, in a school of that size, several assistants in her infant-room ?—Yes. 34. Do the children in the infant-rooms in this district remain in school during the whole of the day ?—As "far as I know they do. They may go out for play and exercise, but they have teachers to mind them all the time. 35. Is it not a fact that in most New Zealand schools the greater part of the infants are dismissed earlier than the upper standard classes ?—ln this district they go into school at 9.30 a.m., and are dismissed at 3 p.m. That gives them an hour less time than the other classes. 36. Is it not clear that in Otago, Southland, and Auckland quite different staff arrangements are made, so that the woman you call the first assistant is not responsible ?—ln that case the position is quite different. 37. Then it depends entirely upon the arrangement of the work by the headmaster ?—I should say so, but the method I have described prevails in the Wellington schools. 38. Then if the method were altered, and the second woman on the staff were made a class-teacher and responsible for the sewing of the girls of her own class, she would not suffer ?—Certainly not. 39. Is it not contended by many prominent educationists that the teaching together of boys and girls has a tendency to make the boys more refined and gentle in their behaviour, and more considerate to the girls ?—Yes. I admit that I am speaking in the interests of the girls, and not that of the boys. I admit that the boys may become more refined in their manners, but I think it is to the decided loss of the girls, because the girls become more boyish. 40. If it is contended that the girls lose the silliness and namby-pambiness, and become more womanly and more like comrades to the boys, would you agree that that might be so ?—I would not on any consideration agree that that is so. It may be a gain to the boy, but there is a decided loss to the girl. 41. Then you differ from those who say that there is a decided gain to the girl ? —I do. 42. Have you any special instructor in physical education in Wellington ? —No. 43. You know that in Otago and. Southland there have been instructors for the last twenty-five years, who take charge of the physical education of the girls in both primary and secondary schools ? —What lam advocating is that the instructors of the girls shall be women and not men. We have had male instructors here, and do not find them very successful as far as the girls are concerned. 44. Is it a fact that the girls or any children are asked to sit for five hours a day in the desks ?— I believe it is quite a common thing. 45. Is there not a recess in the morning ? —Yes. 46. But still you make up five hours that the children spend in the desks during the day. At what time is your school opened and dismissed ?—lt goes in at 9 o'clock, and there is a quarter of an hour's recess at 10 30. The midday recess is from 12 to 1.30, and the school is dismissed at 3 30. 47. Is there not a recess in the afternoon ? —No. 48. Is it not the custom in other parts of the Dominion to have an afternoon recess ? —I believe it is, but I think it does not prevail in this district to any extent. 49. Do you know there is an Education Board regulation in some districts requiring that there shall be a recess in the afternoon ?—Yes. 50. Do you advocate that ?—I do, certainly. But I would prefer that some other form of employment should be taken rather than playtime. 51. In the interest of the health of the children should not the room be cleared and flushed with fresh air at least once during the afternoon ?—Yes. 52. Would the taking of another lesson achieve that ? —lt would in some circumstances. 53. In what circumstances ? —Suppose you took the whole class out for some exercise. The same effect is produced as with playtime. 54. Would you prefer that the children should have freedom for ten minutes to play as they chose, or that they should be under restraint ?—I would prefer the restraint. Ido not care very much for unorganized play. I think organized play would be very good for the children. 55. If the play were organized you would prefer that they should play ?—Certainly. 56. Mr. Pirani.] Do your children .-stand in taking reading-lessons ? —No. 57. Cannot the children stand now and again, to relieve them of the sitting position ?—I think it would do them more harm than good in the present desks. 58. Mr. Hogben.] You recogrize that the majority of educationists believe in the co-education of boys and girls ?—I am aware of that. 59. Would you therefore allow liberty, as the Act allows, for the organization of all schools on either the separate or the mixed plan ? —As far as I know, the tendency of this district is to combine all schools. 60. Would you allow districts to do that if they believe in co-education ?—No, for co-education is either good or bad. If it is good let us have it entirely ; on the other hand, if it is bad it should not be allowed. 61. Are you going to lay that down as a thing on which we can be dogmatic one way or the other ?—We do in respect to other things. 62. But where there is a doubt do we not allow liberty ? —Yes. 63. What is the minimum size of school in which you. would say there ought to be separation of the girls ?—There could be separate schools and also separate departments. In th case of very large schools it would be easy to make separate schools. In the smaller schools there could be separate departments.
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64. As far as the class-teaching is concerned, does it matter whether there are separate departments or separate schools ?—The benefit of the separate school is that you give the woman in charge an opportunity of working out her ideals ; if you place her under a man she has to carry out his. 65. Apparently you think it is better that a class of girls should be taught separately by classteachers ?—Yes. 66. At what size of school would you begin the system of separation, whether in a separate school or a separate department ? —I should say it should be done in any school above Grade 4. 67. That is, if there were more than eighty girls you would have them in a separate school ? — It would depend on the size of the classes. 68. You would have a Grade 4 school for girls? —Probably you could not do so. You might have separate classes, or you might have them mixed. 69. But are you going to sacrifice one thing—the separate teacher for each class—to your idea of separate education ?—lf you can get a class of thirty that is quite enough. 70. But would you not have to take the staffing at the present rate ?—lt might be necessary. 71. Well, the present rate of staffing gives a head teacher in a large school, and one for c\ 7 ery fifty. What would you take as the minimum size at which to begin to make the separate girls' school ? — You would have to take the requirements of the whole system —to make separate schools and separate departments. Probably it would not be done on that basis at all. 72. But what is your idea ? I want to see at how many places it could be done ?—I only ask' that it should be done in large mixed schools and in large centres. Ido not know that it could be done in the small country schools at all. 73. The Act makes it a minimum where you can get 200 girls. That would be 200 girls above Standard lor Standard II ? —I think I have already stated that in the lower standards Ido not object so much to the children being mixed. 74. The girls above Standard II would be about a quarter of the school, making 800 in all. Would you apply the idea to the schools where there would be 800 in the mixed schools ?—lt might be applied to schools lower in grade than that if it were thought necessary. 75. Could you apply it to lower schools and keep a separate teacher for each class ?—I think you could, in the same way that in country districts you would gather the children together to form a central school. You would gather a reasonable number of girls in a district and make a separate school or a separate department. 76. For a school over 200 you would have a head teacher and four assistants. You could get a class of forty to fifty ?—Yes. 77. Would you make it smaller ?—lf it were smaller you could have departments. 78. For a smaller number of girls would you not have a less number of teachers : therefore you might have to put two classes together ?—No. I do not approve of two standards being taught by one person. The work is too heavy. 79. Then you must not have a separate school where you would have to do that ?—No. 80. Then you must not have a school less than 200 ?—You could have departments. 81. But if you have departments you must have the same number of teachers ?—Yes. 82. How many schools could you find where, taking a quarter of the children, there are 200 girls above Standard II ?—To do that it might be necessary to rearrange the districts altogether. 83. You would make the children come greater distances to get the advantage you speak of ?— I think it would be worth while in many cases. 84. Would not that be possible in only a very small number of towns ?—Probably it would. 85. You think, then, that it is worth while to alter the whole system to get for a very small number of girls the advantage you speak of ?—I said we wished to affirm the principle that girls should be taught by women. That is all I came for. 86. But can you do it in the large majority of cases? —It is done in London, where there are thousands of women teaching such schools. 87. But are there not six million people in London ?—That is true. 88. The Chairman,] Do I understand that you claim that the infant-mistress should have the highest salary in all cases ?—Next to the headmaster I think she has most responsibility. 89. When the infant-mistress, for reasons that concern the efficiency of the school, is taken out of her proper place —I am not stating that that is her proper place—and put in charge of a standard, and another woman is brought in as infant-mistress, neither graded so high or capable of performing standard work, how would you meet that difficulty ?—I think the position of infant-mistress should really be a separate appointment. You want a woman qualified to teach your infants, and a woman who is teaching in the upper school may not be qualified for the position of infant-mistress. 90. But in the case I have in my mind there are practically two infant-mistresses in the school —one who is there by appointment of the Board, and who by the exercise of the headmaster's authority has been transferred to the command of a standard class, and who has on occasion performed the headmaster's duties. She cannot get back to her old position, because it is already filled by another infant-mistress. Do you not think that in such cases the woman should have the right to choose whether she should have charge of a standard or go back to her original place I —But if her position is filled she cannot go back to it. 91. But the present infant-mistress is incapable of teaching a standard : I have that on the authority of the headmaster ? —I cannot suggest anything in that case. lam afraid they want a reorganization in that school. 92. Is it equitable that an infant-mistress brought in within the last two years should draw a higher salary than the woman who was headmistress for ten years, and in the intervening time has been doing standard work at the call of the headmaster ?—I am not prepared to criticize a Board's appointments.
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93. Is it not necessary that in the primary schools the girls at a certain age should be transferred _from the room in which the boys are taught—for reasons that do not require to be defined ? —I have always taught in a girls' school, and I certainly do like to see the girls taught by a woman. Dorothy Fitch examined on oath. (No. 166.) 1. The Chairman.] What is your position, and what are your educational qualifications?—l am a teacher at the Normal School of the Wellington Training College. I have been teaching under the Wellington Board for six years. Prior to that I was in the Home and Colonial Training College, London, and lecturer under the London County Council. I hold the highest certificate of the National Froebel Union, with honours. 2. Will you kindly state the matters on which you wish to address us ?—As a delegate from the Women Teachers' Association, may I bring before you as briefly as possible the necessity for properly organized education (in its widest sense) for infants between the ages of three and seven, in such cases where the home is unable to provide suitable environment and care. A wise and sympathetic supervision of fhe child's play and surroundings is at all times necessary, and when the mother is unable through the stress of circumstances to give this it becomes the duty of the State to see to the training of its future citizens. The impressions which a child receives before the age of seven are acknowledged by all authorities to be those which form the basis of his character, and which will consequently influence his whole life. The present system arranges for the admission of children of five years into the State schools, which means that (unless charitable aid is given) the child is allowed for two of the most impressionable years of his life to grin his training from the streets, and then without any preparation he is restricted to the hard-and-fast rules and regulations of overcrowded infant-rooms, which are in many cases equally injurious and totally unsuitable to any real development. The pioneers of the free kindergarten movement are presenting the cause of the children of three to five, and it has fallen upon me to ask for a more rational form of education for the babies of five to seven— such work as is now carried on in the largest cities of the Empire under the name of day nurseries, nursery schools, arc! child-gardens. It is obviously not desirable to dissociate the work done with children of three to five from the work of children of five to seven, as continuity is at all stages greatly to be desired. The organization of such work as one whole would lead to greater efficiency and lessen working-expenses, particularly if the older girls of the school could in connection with their domestic science take a practical course in the care and supervision of the babies in their playrooms, and learn the management of children by actual experience under the skilful direction of a properly qualified kindergartener. The essential characteristics of such work are —(1) The formation of right habits, such as cleanliness, prompt obedience, attention, industry, independence, and politeness ; (2) the development of the social feelings by organized games and other forms of concerted action ; (3) the training of the senses, since the senses are the gateway to all knowledge ; (4) the training of the imagination by stories, ear and voice by music and singing, the bodily powers by games, gardening, and other active forms of employment; (5) the awakening of thought for others, and sympathy by giving the child pets to care for and attend to. The faculties of reasoning and judgment are not to be expected from little children, hence the folly of expecting children to do arithmetic in any but a mechanical way. The link between the home and nursery school needs to be very strong, and formal school-work is altogether out of place. It may rightly be asked, since infants of five to seven are already admitted to the State schools, why infant-mistresses do not reorganize their work to allow for this more rational form of education. Their inability to do this is owing mainly to the following defects in the present system : (1.) The unwieldy size of the classes. The following are figures taken from our city schools. A suburban school has 116 on the infant-roll, in four divisions. The infantmistress has one junior assistant who takes one division, leaving the infant-mistress with three divisions —average number above 70. (a.) One schoolroom with 152 babies in it —two classes, one of 92 and the other 60. Class of 92 in charge of an assistant and pupil-teacher; class of 70 in charge of a pupil-teacher ; class of 65 in charge of a pupil-teacher. There are two class-rooms of 22 ft. by 22 ft. built for 40 children, in which there have been as many as 70 children. (6.) Class of 55 in charge of assistant teacher ; class of 66 in charge of assistant teacher ; class of 48 in charge of pupil-teacher ; class of 53 in charge of pupil-teacher ; class of 45 in charge of pupil-teacher ; class of 44 in charge of pupil-teacher. In this school there are small gallery rooms, with no extra floor-space, and no possibility of any change of position, (c.) School—Class of 85 in charge of assistant (since divided up) ; class of 62 in charge of assistant; class of 37 in charge of assistant; class of 50 in charge of assistant; class of 44 in charge of assistant; class of 54 in charge of pupil-teacher ; class of 49 in charge of pupilteacher ; class of 53 in charge of pupil-teacher—l 39 babies in one room, (d.) School —Classes of 56, 66, and 50. In every case these figures are in no way picked, but were taken direct from the registers in use. It was refreshing to find in one large suburban school no infant class above 33 in number, although there are five of such classes in the charge of unqualified teachers. Under these circumstances all freedom or spontaneity of movement, which is the right of every child, becomes impossible, and a rigid form of discipline, although highly injurious, is unavoidable. Physical defects, such as adenoids, short-sightedness, curvature of the spine, deafness, stammering, left-handedness, want of cleanliness, even if detected, can receive no attention, when with small classes curative treatment would be quite possible, and if these defects were attended to in the early stages it would stop any further development and thus raise the general health of the school. A desirable limit for any class of children under seven would be 30, but preferably much lower. The herding-together of masses of children in unnatural surroundings and injurious stillness is an evil that cannot lightly be overestimated, and it .shows an utter lack of knowledge of children and their requirements. (2.) Another outstanding defect is the undue importance attached to formal school subjects such as reading, spelling, writing, and number, rather than the healthy all-round development of the child. Infant-department work is
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too often regarded as a preparation for the main school instead of a gradual transition from the limited circle of home-life to the larger intercourse of life in the world. The present syllabus for infants is a reasonable one, but the tendency is to overstep its bounds, possibly from the following causes : (a) The necessity for pushing on the infants to fill up the main school whether they are ready or not for this transition ; (6) the teachers must work the children up to the standard required in order to maintain a good report for the school. Infant-rooms still seem to be reported on largely in accordance with the standard of the childrens' formal work rather than their general development. Infants who are capable of doing standard work are held up as patterns to be copied instead of as forced products to be deplored. The essentials of infant-room work are overlooked in the stress of filling the child's mind with innumerable facts which are valueless at the time, and could be learned with far less effort at a later stage. The overstrain on the children and consequent loss of balance and nerve-force is largely the cause of so much apathy with regard to self-education in after-life. The more a child is crammed in the early stages of his school career the duller and less efficient will his faculties become. To overwork in the infant department is to ensure lack of power to work in the upper standards. Leave a c'tild free to develop naturally until he is seven, and then he will come with a well-balanced mind and body to attack the school programme, eager and ready for the work before him. This fact is proved again and again by children who are kept from State schools and well cared for in their own homes or kindergartens until the age of seven. The examination of infant classes by men instead of women is largely answerable for this perverted idea of what an infant should do and know. The care and management of infants in the home is wholly left to women, as most men rightly feel themselves quite incompetent to undertake the task. Why should a change of building be expected to make a man more fitted to say what is right and wrong for infants to do ? The male mind naturally looks for something to criticize and examine which is within his experience, and the formal subjects, unfortunately for the infants, receive his attention. A woman Inspector, fully qualified by experience with children and sympathy with their needs (rather than by academical honours), would know naturally what to look for, and would raise the general tone of infant-room work, provided she made frequent unannounced visits to the schools. Such a change would increase, not lessen, the child's efficiency to do the work in the standards. This has been tried and proved by the work of women Inspectors and lecturers in England. Much has been done for infants during the past few years, but many real evils still exist which need wise and careful treatment. 3. Mr. Wells.] You think children should be admitted at the age of three ?—Not under the present State-school system, but under the reformed system I would have it so. 4. Do you advocate that the kindergartens should be entirely separate institutions, or that they should be in connection with the State schools ?—That is rather a matter of organization. What I ask 'for is that there should be a reform of the methods. From my point of view it would be very much better to have them separate, because then there would be women on the Council to arrange the work and generally supervise. 5. Are there any kindergartens in Wellington besides that at the Normal School ?—Not in connection with the State schools, but there are free kindergartens. 6. Is the Wellington Kindergarten Association doing anything in the way of training teachers in kindergarten principles ?—Yes, but that is a charitable institution. 7. Do all the students at the Training College go through a course in kindergarten work ? —The greater number of them do, but some who are qualifying for their degree, and have no intention of taking up infant work or work with small children, give the greater part of their time to the degree work. It is impossible to have a woman equally fitted for the teaching of infants and the teaching of Standards V and VI. The two positions need altogether different qualifications. 8. Mr. Davidson.] If it were possible in connection with our large schools to have a kindergarten department, into which the children could be brought between the ages of four and six, would you advocate that change ?—lt might be an improvement on the present system, but it is not as much as I would ask for. I would ask that the children from three to seven be left altogether free from formal work. 9. Have you seen many of the infant-rooms connected with our public schools ?—Only those in Wellington. 10. You say that defectives under present conditions can receive no attention : is not that a slight exaggeration ? —No. If these defectives receive attention it takes up time that the teacher must give to other things. 11. Are you aware that in the best of our infant schools, and probably most of them, breathingexercises are regularly given to the children ?—For a child with adenoids to be given breathing exercise for ten minutes a day is an utter farce. That child requires close observation all day. 12. Will not regular breathing exercise to some extent prevent adenoids ? —The growth of adenoids starts often before the age of five. In most cases the child comes to school having adenoids already. In any case such breathing exercises as are given at present would have little preventive effect. 13. Do you know what breathing exercises are taken ? —I do not; but I know that there is not enough of them. In some cases they are taken in close rooms, where the air is already vitiated, and will do harm rather than good. 14. If the exercises are taken in the open air will they not check the tendency ?—Every child when starting breathing exercises wants individual attention. It is an utter farce to take, say, sixty children in breathing exercises. Unless it is well done it is better not done at all. 15. But you said that no attention-whatever could be paid to these children ?—And I mean it. 16. Is it not a fact that very often, even where classes of forty or fifty children are taken, adenoids are detected, and notice of the fact is sent to the parents ?—That would be possible, but how often is it done ?
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17. Will "not that be remedied to a large extent When the medical officers recently appointed instruct the teachers how to detect adenoids ? —Any observant teacher knows how to detect the trouble now, but when you have classes of thirty children in charge of inexperienced girls how can they be expected to do it ? 18. The Chairman.] Will you not make a distinction between " no attention " and " some attention " ?—I have never yet come across a case where a child has received proper attention. 19. Mr. Pirani.} Has your experience in New Zealand extended beyond the kindergarten ?— To the infant department of the Normal School —the primer classes. 20. Do your observations about the Inspectors apply only to what you have seen in your own school ?—I am here as a delegate from the Women Teachers' Association, and I give not only my own opinions but those of other teachers. 21. Do you know that according to the regulations it is not the duty of the Inspectors to examine every individual child ?—I know that it is a regulation that the infant department has to be inspected, but my infants have been examined by an Inspector. 22. What do you call " examination " ?—When an Inspector comes and says, " Give the children books, paper, and pencils," and so on, or " Make the children read or write." lam speaking from my own experience. The Normal School had not been examined or inspected for five years until last Christmas. 23. Do you not know that it is the duty of the Inspectors to judge of the teachers, and not of the children ?—Yes. That is as it should be. 24. Do you not think that a man is capable of judging whether a woman is teaching properly ?— Not in the case of infants. 25. You say, " The examination of infant classes by men instead of women is largely answerable for this perverted idea of what an infant should do and know," yet the regulations do not provide for the examination of infants by Inspectors in recent years ?—I cannot help that, but it has been done. 26. How long is it since the Inspector examined your infant class ? —Last year. 27. What did you say about five years ago ?—I said that for the first five years of my time in New Zealand we were not inspected or examined by the Board's Inspectors in the Normal School. 28. Who examined or inspected you then ? —No one. 29. How long ago is it since they commenced these examinations ?—Last Christmas we had the first examination of infants. 30. Do you say you only had one examination ?—One ; and last week we had an inspection. 31. Who was the Inspector each time ? —We had two Inspectors in the room last week—Messrs. Stuckey and Bakewell. The time before we had a temporary Inspector —Mr. Grundy. 32. Is it to their method that you take objection ?—These are the only Inspectors I have really seen, and the last inspection was certainly a very great improvement on the one we had before ; but even then it failed in what an Inspector ought to notice in an infant department. 33. Do you know of one woman in this district whom you would deem capable of inspecting your children's work ?—I do not think I do. 34. What sort of training ought a woman Inspector to have to be capable of the work you suggest ?—She should have a thorough training in a training college, a thorough knowledge of kindergarten methods and ideals, a knowledge of the health of children, and a knowledge of hygiene. There are such women. They have women Inspectors at Home in London, Liverpool, Leeds, and all the big cities, and I believe in America as well, though I am not sure. 35. Do you not know that one of the greatest difficulties in connection with the most competent women teachers is that they get married and leave the profession ? —I do not see that that has anything to do with it. Still, there are plenty left. There is no lack of women in the world. 36. Mr. Hogben.] Your principal objections to the present system are, first, that the staffing is not large enough for properly dealing with the infant classes, and that the rooms are neither large enough nor suitable ? —Yes. 37. Practically, it would amount to about doubling the staffing to get your minimum in the infant classes ? —lt would. 38. You recognize that the cost of, that would be very large ?—I do. I have no authority from the women teachers for making this statement, but my idea is that if the kindergarten system was run so as to deal with the whole of the children from three to seven years of age it would save all the expense the present Kindergarten Association is put to, and save expense in the infant department, because, instead of having so many trained qualified teachers, we could get the girls in the standards between the ages of fourteen and sixteen to undertake to play with the babies in their rooms. Ido not want them to be taught under seven, but just played with. The older girls in the standard classes could undertake that duty. 39. They could not undertake that for a very large amount of the day ?—Yes, if all the elder girls in the classes took it. I would suggest the secondary girls take it for an hour, the Standard VI girls for an hour, and Standard V girls for an hour, and it seems to me that would do away with the staffing of the kindergarten rooms altogether, except for one qualified kindergartener to look after the points I have mentioned. 40. At the present time there is only a small number of children in the free kindergarten, and the Government are paying £2 per head for them, and the rest of the money is found by voluntary contributions : if you are going to bring in children of from three to five are you not going to provide one teacher for every thirty besides these girls ?—No, I think that would be unnecessary. My claim for one teacher for every thirty children is for children over seven years of age where the formal work is begun. 41. You would not have any secondary pupils in the ordinary public schools in the towns ?—Well, Standard V and Standard VI girls could do the work quite well. They do it in their own homes.
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42. Would it not create rather a difficulty in the work of the classes if certain girls were taken away from one- lesson and other girls from other lessons to do this work ?—I think it would as the lessons stand at present; but witnesses are asking that more attention should be paid to domestic science and less to formal lessons. 43. Would you not have to break up these classes for nearly the whole day if you are going to do without staffing in these kindergarten classes ?—I think not. I should imagine it would be possible in a school to have ten girls supervising this work the whole time. 44. But for an hour a day some of the lessons in Standards V and VI would be broken into ?— But the girls need not take the subjects being taught in these hours. There are certain lessons that must be taken, such as English, and they could be taken when the children are not in the kindergarten. 45. I suppose girls should take civics as well as boys ? —Yes, it would be to their advantage. 46. And they should take physical exercises ?—I think if they are playing with the babies they will get enough physical exercise. 47. Do you know of any country where they do that kind of thing ? —No, Ido not; but you asked me for a suggestion. 48. Do you think it is desirable that all children between the ages of three and seven should go to these classes ? —No, only when the homes cannot provide suitable care for them. 49. How are you going to select them ?—The parents who are able to take care of their children in their own homes would not dream of sending them under the age of seven years. 50. You think none of the parents who send their children between five and seven know how to manage them ? —I do not say that. I say any parents who knew anything about children would not send them under seven. 51. That is to say, the great majority of parents do not know how to manage their children ?— The growing generation speaks for itself. 52. The Chairman.] Are you aware that in some parts of the world no child does enter the standards until seven years of age ? —I am aware of that. I think it is highly desirable that no child should enter the standards before seven. I know some are capable of doing so, but it is at a tremendous physical cost to them. 53. Would it surprise you to know that in some parts of the Dominion children have been withdrawn from the kindergartens in order to increase the infant attendance and earn capitation ?—I have known children taken from the infant department to increase the attendance of the main school. 54. Do you think it is advisable that a creche should be established in connection with the kindergarten as at Auckland, or do you think that it should be a separate institution altogether ? —I have not thought the point out, but it seems to me it would be better to have separate institutions, because then you would have more women dealing with it. 55. You are satisfied that if the demands of the syllabus on the girls in Standards V and VI were decreased in certain directions, and more attention was paid to a course of domestic work, these girls would be able to assist in the kindergartens attached to the primary schools ? —Yes, provided no formal work was expected of the babies under seven years of age. 56. Provided also a schoolroom were given to you conforming to latest ideals —we have seen such a school in Wanganui that answers to kindergarten ideals and has not cost the Board too much—you think that a scheme such as you have suggested is capable of realization ?—I think so. 57. And you think it would be to the advantage of the State if such tuition of infants were undertaken ?—Most decidedly. Nellie Euphemia Coad examined on oath. (No. 167.) 1. The Chairman] What is your position ?—I am one of the junior assistants on the staff of the Newtown School. I have been there four years. 2. Are you one of the delegates of the Women Teachers' Association ?—Yes. While admitting that in the matter of salary women teachers are better off than they used to be, yet, considering the increase in the cost of living, and the salaries paid to women in other Departments of the Government service, the salaries of women in the lower grades are not what they should be. Before making comparisons I should like to point out that-teachers, belonging as they do to a profession that entails special study and special training, should also receive special pay, but this is not the case. Take the lowest grade, Al ; salary, £90 to £105. The teachers in this grade are nearly all women. Their minimum salary after four years' training is £90. This proceeds by £5 rises until in her seventh year a woman teacher finds herself at her maximum, £105, with no assured prospect of promotion. In the proposed scheme of classification for the Civil Service it is recommended that the salaries of all juniors, including women, shall be £115 in the fifth year. Contrast this with a woman teacher's maximum, £105 in the seventh year. If it is recognized that the services of a junior woman in other Departments of the Government service are worth £115 in the fifth year, surely the services of a woman teacher in her seventh year (to put it modestly) are equally valuable. Further, under this scheme the salary of a woman in the Civil Service proceeds by £15 increments till in her ninth year she is at her maximum, £165. If by any chance a woman teacher did proceed steadily into the next grade, £105 to £120, rising by £5 increments, she would be getting £120 in her eleventh year, while under the proposed Civil Service classification scheme her junior by two years is getting £165. As things now are in some Government Departments a woman can get £160 in her ninth year. A shorthand-writer and typiste can enter the Government service at the rate of £70 a year and rise steadily to £160 in about eight years. A woman enters the teaching profession at the rate of £25 a year, and if she passes her examinations gets £105 in her seventh year, her maximum in that grade. Omitting pupil-teachers and probationers, only about 5 per cent, of the women in the profession can get a salary at the rate of £160. It is suggested as a remedy for this state of affairs that the minimum of these lower grades be raised by £20 and proceed
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by £10 increments for nine years. Again, I should like to point out that there is a tendency for the teaching profession to fall entirely into the hands of women. At present the proportion of men to women in our Wellington Training College is one to three, and in past years it has been from one to five. If in future the training oi the youth of the Dominion is to be placed entirely or almost entirely in the hands of women, such a responsibility should be incurred by the most capable and efficient women of the Dominion. The question is, are these the kind of women to be enticed into the profession or instead those whose services can be most easily secured for £90 a year ? Is the profession to be raised by insisting on a certain standard of proficiency, or lowered by the employment of uncertificated teachers ? We do not want to make selfish or unreasonable demands or to draw any odious comparisons; but, considering the relative salaries of women teachers and women in other Departments of the Government service, considering also the relative value of the services of each, the younger women of the profession are dissatisfied with the low salaries they are at present getting. 3. Mr. Kirk.] In making these comparisons did you consider the hours worked by women in the other branches of the Civil Service with the hours worked by teachers ? —Yes, I thought of that, but I consider the hours of a teacher, though nominally short, are not short at all when you consider the training and preparation that is required for the work of a teacher ; and not only that, but a teacher's work involves more concentration than the work of a person in the Government Buildings or in a clerkship. 4. Do you think that a typiste's work does not imply concentration ?—Not so much, and she has breaks in her day's work. 5. Have you ever seen typistes at work in a busy office ?—She gets a piece of work to do, but she is not continuously employed. It is a well-known fact that they get out during the day, and have time to stop and talk during working-hours. A teacher has none of that. 6. They do not have morning or afternoon tea ? —There is no time for that. 7. Do you th'nk the girls in the Telephone Exchange, for instance, have not to concentrate ?— My experience of the Telephone Exchange is limited, but no comparison is possible between the work of the two. 8. Then why do you make it ? —I am comparing salaries. 9. What are the hours worked by teachers during the day ? —Generally from 9 to 3.30, and they have a break of an hour and a half in the middle of the day. 10. Do you know the hours worked by the girls in the Government service and other branches ?— 9 to 5, with a one-hour break. 11. How many days a week do the girls in the Government service work ? —Five and a half ; but we have an extra half-day. 12. How many holidays during the year do the girls in the Government service get: do you think it is longer than a fortnight ?—ln some cases they can get longer than a fortnight. 13. What are the usual holidays for girls in the teaching profession ?—Six weeks at the end of the year, I know; but that is not our fault. I do not consider the fact that we get long holidays an argument for reducing our salaries. 14. Did you, when drawing up this scheme, consider these points I have mentioned ?—Ye i, J considered them all. 15. And you did not consider them worthy of being taken into account ? —Yes, I have taken them into account and balanced the one against the other, and I consider the teachers should get more salary, as their work is more important. 16. But on the vital point as to the value of your work you say nothing ?—I have seen leadingarticles and extracts in the papers of the views of our politicians and other people, and they all talk about what an important person a teacher is and about the value of the work they do in training the youth of the community. 17. Would it not be much better to base your claim for an increase in salary upon the nobility of the work and the effect of it on the community than to put it on the basis of what is paid in other branches ?—I think I am basing it on that in one way. My point was in balancing one against the other the preparation required to make an efficient teacher. There is more preparation required in the case of a teacher than in the case of a typiste. 18. Can that not be got over by making the restrictions to the teaching profession less to induce more to come into it ?—I think the only inducement would be an increase in salary. That is the only way to appeal to people. They might grant the nobility of the profession, but they do not consider that. They prefer large salaries to doing noble work. 19. Mr. Poland.] Do you agree with the sentiments expressed in this paper I received —namely, " The educated [teacher occupies an important social position in the community, and the intelligence of the authorities has come to recognize that, rightly used, the knowledge and experience of teachers form an important asset in a constructive scheme of adaptive education. And the recognition is growing. The broadening of the spirit of educational tolerance, the higher plane of training of the professional teacher, and the recognition by the people that education is a necessary part of the equipment of their children all add to the growing influence exercised by the teachers." Do you think that fact should be taken into consideration in connection with the salaries to be paid in order to obtain the very highest type of teacher ? —Yes. 20. And the question of holidays is not a question for the teacher, but is a necessary part of the school instruction on behalf of the children, is it not ?—Yes. 21. During the holidays I presume teachers have to pay for their living ?—Yes. 22. Your point is that the salary should be commensurate with the importance of the position and the training necessary to perform the work adequately ?—Yes. 23. Mr. Davidson.] Are you speaking on behalf of the junior assistants hi the large schools ?— Yes.
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24. Why do they remain in these positions ?—Because there is no great number of positions with large money attached to them for women. 25. You know the great difficulty there is in getting qualified teachers to take positions in Grade 1 and Grade 2 schools ?—Yes. 26. Why do junior assistants prefer to take a salary of £95 to a school with a salary ranging from £120 to £150 with house allowance ?—Because they consider the extra money does not pay them for the inconvenience and expense they incur in going into the country. 27. Then it is because of the privilege of remaining in the towns ?—Not only the privilege, but it does not pay them in view of the extra expense they are put to when living away from home. But even if the younger women were willing to go into the country schools there would not be enough country schools to employ them. 28. Are you sure of that ?—There are 2,250 women teachers, I think, in the Dominion, and if you balance the number of junior assistants with the number of schools you will find that is the case. 29. Is it not a fact that if a vacancy is advertised for a country school carrying a salary largely in excess of that of a junior assistant in a city school that the number of applicants for such a position will be very small compared to the number for a junior assistantship ?—That may be so in some cases, but there are not very many country schools giving a salary of £120 to £150. 30. Can you tell me how many junior assistants are receiving £105 a year or less ?—I cannot tell 31. Is it not really the case that the junior assistants prefer to remain in the town at a smaller salary rather than go to the country at a considerable increase ?—I do not think so. They would go if they were quite sure of getting the larger salary, but they are not sure of it. 32. Is it not the experience of every Education Board in New Zealand that if they advertise for a junior assistant in a city school at £90 they probably get twenty applications, whereas for a school of, say, Grade 2, carrying a salary of £120 to £150, they probably get not one-fifth o" the number ?— Perhaps; but that is not an argument to show that women teachers are being paid adequately on the whole. 33. Have you compared the salaries paid to women teachers ten years ago with the salaries paid at the present time ? —Yes, I know they get better salaries at present. 34. Is it not a fact that the increase has been quite 50 per cent. ?—Yes. 35. The Chairman] Can you tell us if the increased cost of living has had anything to do with it ? — Yes, it has had a good deal to do with it. 36. Mr. Davidson.] Have you compared the salaries paid to the women teachers in New Zealand with those paid to women teachers in any of the Australian States ?—I have not compared them with Australia, but with countries further away. 37. Have you compared them with the salaries paid to women teachers in Canada ?—I believe they get more in Canada. 38. Have you actually compared them ? —No. 39. What is your belief based on ?—Conversations I have had with people. 40. Have you compared them with the salaries paid to junior assistants in any other part of the British Empire ?—No; but, even so, I did not think that comparison was necessary. You cannot base any conclusions on such comparisons, because the conditions in one country are totally different to the conditions in other countries. 41. Mr. Hogben.] How do you arrive at the conclusion that in the seventh year of service a woman gets £105 ?—She begins as a pupil-teacher, and the least time she can spend as a pupil-teacher is two or three years. Then she is at the training college for two years more, and then she begins at £90 a year and rises by £5 increments. 42. Is it service she is rendering at the training college ?—I think it is. 43. She is being taught ? —Yes, she is receiving a training for her future work. She is spending her time there. 44. Do you count it service ?—Yes. 45. Do you count it service while she is at the secondary school before she becomes a pupil-teacher ? —No, Ido not think the comparison Isolds very well. She is qualifying for her work at the trainingcollege. 46. Is she not qualifying for her work in taking a two-years course at the secondary school ?— She is not qualifying herself for teaching-work. She is not specializing. 47. As soon as she begins to specialize you say she is rendering service ?—Yes. » 48. Is she counted on the staff of the Normal School ?—No. 49. What service is she rendering at the Normal School ? —I consider she is rendering service inasmuch as she is spending her time at that particular form of work when she might be doing something else or enjoying herself. 50. The Chairman.] Do you know it to be a fact that many young women sent to the backblock schools find it necessary to take with them a member of their family for protection ? —ln some cases I know that has happened. 51. Does that not add considerably to a woman's expenses in such a position ?—Very considerably. 52. We have heard about the educational plums being too few : would not the fact of the matrimonial plums being so exceedingly few in these situations account very largely for the girls' disinclination to leave the centres ? —I cannot say. 53. You are satisfied that the emoluments given to women teachers are not sufficient, having regard to the qualifications they have to possess and what it takes to maintain themselves apart from their families '? —Yes. 54. Mr. Pirani.] How many teachers do you know who have been obliged to take relations into the backblocks for protection ?—From my own experience I know of two.
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The Hon. John Anstev, M.L.0., examined on oath. (No. 168.) - 1. The Chairman.] You are a member of the Legislative Council of New Zealand ? —Yes. 2. What is your educational experience ?—I have served on School Committees in South Canterbury, and was Chairman for several years. I have not served on an Education Board. 3. Have you any statement to make in regard to the subject-matter of our inquiry ?—Yes. I intend to confine my evidence to the point of view of the parent and his children, and even in their respect principally to the country settler and the country schools. Not that I think they are of sole or even, paramount importance, but because ample evidence from expert educationists and city dwellers has already been placed before the Commission in a much better form than I could hope to do. The cost of education has increased, roughly, 100 per cent, during the last dozen years, while the number of scholars has increased by only about 25 per cent. And while I do not think the public would object to any reasonable increase in the cost of education provided increased efficiency were the result, there is a very strong opinion that not only is there no commensurate increase of efficiency, but that in many respects there is a distinct deterioration in primary education, particularly in small schools by which country districts are mostly served. In this opinion I largely concur. We have no data upon which to base this opinion. Inspector's reports now convey little information to parents or School Committees as to the progress of the scholars, and I can only speak from the observations in my own family and the opinions freely expressed by country parents. We are largely overloading our primary system with frills and excrescences before thoroughly grounding the children in basic principles and essentials, resulting in a confusion of ideas imperfectly grasped, instead of building up step by step a solid foundation from which clear deduction and complete education can later be acquired. Examples —A boy in the Third Standard recently brought home an elaborate exercise in astronomy : inquiry showed that his knowledge of this subject was practically nil. A readinglesson in Standard IV was an abbreviation of " The Count of Monte Cristo," a tiresome yarn relating to impossible events, containing confusing foreign names, no moral or instruction of any sort. A reading-lesson based on an historical fact, a natural history, geographical, or travel subject, could have been made equally or more interesting, would have supplied some useful instruction, and purely as a reading-lesson would have been more useful than the above. The rules of arithmetic are very imperfectly taught in our arithmetic-books, and often not by the teacher. The child may be shown how to do a sum, but the reason or rule therefor he seldom clearly understands. Examination questions are often mere tricks or puzzles often having contingent answers, and the child who correctly guesses which answer was in the Inspector's mind is credited accordingly. Other questions, again, are strictly algebraic equations, as by no ordinary rule of arithmetic can they be answered except by first guessing the answer and working back to the question. We are trying to teach scientific agriculture in the lower standards of the primary schools before the age or education of the child enables him to grasp or understand the subject taught. Contrast this with the much-lauded system of Denmark, where a very large proportion of the pupils pass through one or other of the secondary schools, particularly the agricultural high schools. Their primary system is similar to ours in respect to age —viz., from seven to fourteen —but the agricultural high school course does not commence till the age of eighteen, and extends up to twenty-five : i.e., after the pupils have passed through a thorough primary course they must remain at practical work on the farm for four years, by which time they are able to appreciate and assimilate the advanced scientific knowledge so useful to them, but which they could not possibly understand at the age of primary instruction. Much has been said of the continually growing scarcity of teachers. As this commenced coincidently with the abolition of the pupil-teacher system, it points to this, together with the inadequate remuneration of teachers, particularly in the lower grades, as being the chief causes of the scarcity. And I believe a return to at least some modification of the pupil-teacher system is necessary, and the inadequacy of the pay is largely due to our very faulty system of grading. A sole teacher, Grade 3, with up to thirty-five pupils divided into eight classes, is probably the hardest-worked teacher in the profession, yet his average salary is £30 per annum less than a teacher in the next grade, who has efficient assistance and much less arduous work. Again, a teacher'in Grade lis presumed to be only fit to fill the lowest position of an assistant teacher, yet the same teacher is supposed to be fit to be placed in sole charge of a school of up to fifteen pupils of all standards. I suggest that the grading should be revised and based largely on the number of classes to be taught, instead of solely on the number of scholars in that particular school. And it should be a promotion, at least in pay, from the position of head teacher in Standard IV to that of sole teacher in Standard 111, and that a sole-teachership in any grade should carry with it increased pay above that to which the present system entitles it. lam also of opinion that some assistance, even if it were not of a very expert character, should be given in schools of much less than thirty-five pupils. A return to the pupil-teacher system would permit of this being done, would supplement the teacher's income, which with the adoption of the above suggestion of grading would raise the remuneration of teachers in these grades to a figure not absolutely unattractive, as at present, but would permit of the proper persons —viz., male teachers, even if with domestic responsibilities—taking charge of these country schools. Another suggestion I may make in this connection is that the rise in teachers' pay should increase more rapidly up to a certain age, and thereafter not increase or possibly decrease. A teacher in mid-life is not only more vigorous and therefore entitled to more pay, but it is at this period that domestic obligations are most pressing, while in declining years less onerous duties may be preferred even if less remuneration were offered. A suggestion has been rather persistently urged, principally by Teachers' Institutes, that many country schools should be closed and a system of conveyance to central schools adopted. Needless to say, this will never satisfy the country settler. It must not be forgotten that the country school is the settlers' only social centre, his only place of meeting or for social functions ; it is his only church, Sunday school, post, telegraph, and telephone office, and library; and as these settlers have in many cases voluntarily contributed a of
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the cost of these buildings they are perfectly entitled to their use for secondary purposes. lam well aware that the cost of education per pupil increases pretty regularly with the decrease of numbers in attendance, and this probably would be accentuated if the suggestions above made were given effeot to, but it is quite unfair to say that this additional cost should be debited wholly to the country settler. A very large percentage of country children eventually gravitate to the towns, and the towns that absorb them are under as much obligation in respect to their education as the settlers themselves. Suggestions as to increased cost: The proportionate increase of the cost of education has been coincident with the gradual centralization of the system. We have gradually divested School Committees of almost every vestige of authority, consequently all local interest is destroyed, and items such as casual repairs, &c, are sometimes ridiculously costly. The building grants now controlled by the central authority often show 7 almost unpardonable crudity ; moderate grants of small amounts and really necessary are often refused or curtailed, while large grants by no means urgently necessary are sometimes forthcoming, somewhat to the surprise of the local residents. Schools are erected in unsuitable places, sometimes having to be closed or shifted, or often additional schools erected which would have been unnecessary if proper sites had been first chosen. Occasionally this is the fault of the local Board in failing to take due care in the selection of the site, but more often of one of the central authorities, the principal offenders being the Land Department, who often insist in spite of vigorous protests in reserving school-sites in unsuitable places in new settlements. I think inquiry ought to be made into the use of the revenue from endowments for secondary education. Cases can be cited where the revenue from these endowments has not been devoted to education at all, but has been used for wealth-accumulation purposes. To- use the revenues from high school reserves for investment in mortgages, for the purchase of house property, for the purchase of rural land at speculative prices, are not the objects for which these reserves were set aside ; and if these revenues are not required for secondary-education purposes they should be diverted, at least temporarily, to primary-education purposes, for which it is most needed. 4. Mr. Wells.] With regard to the misuse of endowments, can you give us any definite instance of that, as general statements wall not help us ? —I recognize the difficulty. It is only two days ago since I was asked to give evidence before the Commission, and it would take weeks to get definite and reliable figures, and I would have to have access to public documents. I can give you a sample case, but I am speaking from memory of events that took place and from reports in the newspapers, and I cannot absolutely guarantee the correctness of the figures. One secondary body has very large endowments bringing them in a revenue of, roughly, £20,000 a year. 5. What body is that ?—The Board, of Governors of Canterbury College. From these revenues they have now a large sum of money invested on mortgage from which they draw a considerable income. I have not the figures. They also have a considerable amount of house property which is let for a substantial annual rent. Quite recently they purchased a small piece of freehold land for a very high price—l have not the official figures, but I know the price exceeded £23 per acre. It is reported that they paid £26 per acre. That same land is now let on lease for six years at 18s. per acre, which confirms my opinion that it has been bought purely for speculati\ 7 e purposes, because at present it will not return interest on the money. They hope, no doubt, that at the end of six years it will cut up for town sections. 6. May it not have been bought for future educational needs ?—No. It is in a rural district, and is not likely to be wanted for school purposes. It adjoins another reserve they have. 7. Is that the only instance you had in your mind ? —Yes, just at present. I could give several others, but not nearly as definitely as that. 8. The Chairman.] You have reason for thinking it is not a solitary case in which money has been used in that way ?—I know a case of a High School Board that owns a cottage. It may be a good financial transaction, and they may save rent by it, but still it is hardly devoting the revenues of the reserves to educational purposes. 9. Mr. Wells.] Do you approve of the rural course in education and of technical education ?— That becomes rather more a matter for experts than the line to which I have confined myself. It must be understood that it is very difficult indeed to give, any technical education of any value to a strictly country school. 10. Do you think the rural course is a good thing from the point of view of the country ? —I am most decidedly in favour of having advanced education for country children, but primary education should be practically completed before you start secondary education, and thereafter secondary education should go hand-in-hand with practical work. 11. You mention the large increase in the cost of education during the last few years, but during the last few years there has been an enormous extension in the way of technical and secondary education ?—Much of it is on wrong lines, and consequently wasted. 12. Can you say where the lines are wrong ? —I will give one instance. Quite recently the educational authorities in South Canterbury engaged an agricultural instructor from England at a salary of £400 a year, of which £150 was contributed by local farmers' societies, &c.—a splendid man, by the way. His duties were to give scientific agricultural instruction in the primary schools, among other duties, down to the Fourth, Fifth, and Sixth Standards both to boys and girls. I say that is an absolute waste of money. This man went outside and did a lot of good work amongst the farmers for which he was suited, but to ask him to give scientific agricultural instruction to girls was the height of absurdity. He became so disgusted that he threw up his position under the Board. 13. Do you not think it is a good thing to give boys and girls in the country districts a bent for the land ?—Most decidedly. 14. Do you not think that the agricultural course is doing that ?—lf on right lines it would, but the present proposal in an extreme form would mean not only that a child was kept at the primary
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school until fourteen, but that he then had to go on to a secondary school till he is eighteen, without getting any practical knowledge. Unless you allow a child to get practical knowledge of farm-work before he is eighteen you will never get him to take an interest afterwards. 15. Country children are mostly on farms ? —Yes, but if you are going to keep them at school until they are eighteen they will never be satisfied with the farm afterwards. 16. Do you not think that the settlers realize that they will get far better education at a wellmanaged school of eighty than at schools of fifteen and twenty each ? —I disagree with that. In one period of my experience it was impossible to send my children to a public school, and I sent them to a private school. They made more forward movement in three months in the private school than in three years in a public school. In my opinion the great weakness in country schools just now is that the pay is so small that the right class of teachers are not going in for it. 17. Mr. Kirk.] Do you think the time has come when attendance at continuation schools throughout the Dominion should be made compulsory ?—Certainly not. The Sixth Standard is ample for a lad that intends to follow the furrow. 18. How would you avoid the leakage that is going on from the Fourth Standard upwards ? —I was not aware that there was any leakage to any serious extent. There should be a remedy for every evil, but I cannot suggest it just now. In, the country districts it has been absolutely impossible to get domestic help. 19. In the interests of the boys, do you not think there should be some form of compulsory continuation school ?—Primary education should be absolutely compulsory, but I think it was a mistake to make the attendance compulsory on five days. When people cannot keep the law they do not bother complying with it in any way. 20. Do you suggest that the Fifth Standard should be the age at which school-life might cease ? — I think it is very desirable that all boys should go to the Sixth Standard, but perhaps it would be wise to make only up to the Fifth compulsory. 21. Would you express an opinion on the proposal to set up an Educational Council in New Zealand to take the place of departmental control as it exists at present ?—I think it would be very wise to have some change, but I cannot say what should be its nature. I know that the centralizing in Wellington at present has had a very bad effect so far as the country is concerned. 22. You know how estates are cut up, and no provision made by the owner for setting aside a school-site : what power do you think the State should have for compulsorily obtaining a school-site in such circumstances I —l do not think that the State should have any right to take land for school purposes more than for any other purpose. I know some glaring instances where sites have been set apart by the Land Board, and have been in absolutely the wrong place. Just to give one instance : Near Winchester the Land Board cut up 800 acres, and they set aside 5 acres as a site for a school. That site was within two miles of an already existing school, and was absolutely unnecessary. Quite recently another settlement was promoted, and the school was placed three-quarters of a mile up a by-road when it could have been at the junction of several roads. 23. Mr. Poland.] You do not think that the State has a right to ask, where it considers it necessary, that the owners of an estate which is being privately cut up should provide a site for a school out of the land of the estate ?—I think it would be quite unworkable. 24. You indicated that the curtailing of the powers of the School Committees has resulted in the Committees losing interest in their schools ? —That is so. 25. Have you seen the Addington School in Christchurch ?—No. 26. Do you really believe that School Committees have no duties to perform now with the exception of passing accounts for the cleaning of the school ?—I gave my evidence solely as applying to country schools. In that light I say that that evidence was perfectly correct. 27. Cannot they do anything in the way of providing school-gardens ?—They can if they wish, no doubt. 28. Cannot they take a great interest in the work of the teachers, and see that the grounds are beautified, for instance ?—You must remember that in the country the members of the Committees live three or four miles away from the school, and they therefore cannot take much interest in that matter. 29. Mr. Thomson.] Do you think fhat manual instruction should be part of the primary-school work ? —I think that country lads get all the manual instruction they want at home. 30. You think that if a lot of the subjects were eliminated there would be a reduction in the cost of the schools ?—No. I say that if you do away with the frills you will get better education. Ido not say you will get it cheaper. 31. Would you require the same number of teachers, or more ?—I think that many country schools should have much stronger teaching staffs, both as regards qualifications and numbers. 32. Do you think we are spending too much on education ?—I think we are spending too much in the way of Government building grants in the form in which it is being done and in the other points I have mentioned. 33. Are you judging the whole of the Dominion by some points in your own district ?—1 am judging by my own experience, largely formed in my own district. 34. Do you think that is generous ?—I do not know. I know that complaints come from all parts of the Dominion. Whether they are well founded or not I cannot say. 35. Mr. Davidson.] Take reading, recitation, spelling, composition, and writing : do you think that any of these could be omitted from the syllabus I —No. 36. You regard these as essentials ?—Yes ; the only one that might be eliminated would be recitation, possibly.
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37. Do you not think it is very desirable that our public men should speak well, and that in speaking they should be able to quote from our standard authors ?—I dare say it is extremely necessary, -but I would like to know what it has got to do with the education in our primary schools. 38. Do you think that singing should be taught with the other subjects in the primary-school syllabus *—If time can be found for it, but I do not know that it is an essential. 39. Do you regard physical exercises as necessary ?—For the city-bred boy, yes ; but it is of very little importance to the country child. 40. Do you think that drawing is an essential on the part of a child's education ?—Yes, more particularly in regard to land-surveying. Many of our lads have no idea of how to judge area. 41. Where it can be provided, do you think that the girls of the Fifth and Sixth Standards should be taught- something of domestic science, say, cookery ? —I think it is very necessary indeed. 42. With regard to this matter of the consolidation of country schools, have you any knowledge of the results obtained in any of the American States from the adoption of this system of consolidation ? —I have read some portions and seen quotations from publications on the subject, but so far as my inquiry goes every one is written by persons who live away from the districts they are writing about. 43. Supposing there were six schools of fifteen children each, do you not think it would be much better, from the point of view of the education of the children, that they should be conveyed to a central school where there would be an attendance of ninety ?—I should say that some one has badly blundered if it is possible to have six schools in one district for ninety children. 44. Do you think we have no unnecessarily small schools ?—There are many. The remedy.is not that they should be closed, but that they should be put in the right places. 45. Mr. Pirani.] Do you think there has been political influence in the matter of providing building grants ?—lt is possible that a little influence may have been brought to bear on the powers that be. 46. What would you call " frills " in our primary-education system ?—Astronomy and scientific agricultural instruction in the lower standards. 47. Do you not know that there is no such thing as scientific agriculture in the lower standards ?— I know it is there. 48. It is not in the syllabus ? —Perhaps not. 49. Mr. Hogben.] Is one of the schools you referred to Grey's corner ?—lt is thirty-five miles from where I live, but it is one of those I had in my mind. 50. You do not know that the Education Board strongly recommended a school there ?—No. 51. Do you see anything wrong in asking, when an estate is being cut up into sections, that 3 or 4 acres should be given for a school ? —No. 52. But you would not extend it as a general principle ?—-No, Ido not think so. The question of betterment is a very big one. The Hon. John Barr, M.L.C., examined on oath. (No. 169.) 1. The Chairman.] You are a member of the Legislative Council of New Zealand ? —Yes. 2. Have you been concerned with the administration of education in Canterbury ?—I am not at present, but I have been at various times as member and Chairman of a School Committee. I was a member of the Technical School Board when it was first established. 3. Will you kindly read the statement you have prepared ? —Although interested in primary education I would like to confine my remarks as much as possible to technical education, as it is in that branch that lam interesting myself most at the present moment. Still, there is one thing which came under my notice while I was Chairman of the School Committee in the district in which I reside. In the course of four years three headmasters and one mistress were appointed, and I could not help feeling that the system of canvassing was, to say the least of it, degrading. I must say I felt extremely sorry for many applicants whose natures were more sensitive than others, but were forced to do it if they were to have any chance with the thicker-skiniied. Surely some different method could be adopted. I know many School Committees approve of the present system; at the same time there are very many more who must feel that a change is needed. With regard to technical education, my opinions may be taken as those of a tradesman and a parent. I consider that the technical school should be a preparatory school and a trade school, but that it should not be a school for teaching hobbies. By " preparatory " I mean that the pupils coming direct from the primary schools should receive an education so general in its character that no matter what trade they adopted it would be found useful and would at the same time be such as would guide the teacher as to the suitability of the lad for a particular calling—as, to put it in other words, would enable the teacher to advise the parents as to what trades their children were most likely to prove most efficient in; that when a trade was chosen the lad should be confined as far as possible to the theory and practice of that particular trade. For instance, if he has decided to be a carpenter, he need not receive science lessons. With regard to hobbies, as an example of what I deem to be the teaching of hobbies, take the case in the Christchurch Technical College of a special class for teaching girls carpentry. While we are complaining about our education system being starved we have no right to spend money in hobbies. A question that is being asked very frequently at the present moment is, should commercial training be given in technical schools ? While of opinion that all boys and girls should be taught the rudiments of book-keeping, I feel that serious consideration should be given r to separating purely commercial training from technical training. It has come to my knowledge that of those who attend the Christchurch Technical College with a view to fitting themselves for a commerciarcareer'a considerable number find it advisable to finish off at one or other of the private schools. I do not blame the Director of Christchurch College, as I believe he is one of the most capable men in New Zealand, but undoubtedly there is something wrong with the system. It may be that there is not the necessary specialization, and that too many subjects may be taken up for the sake of the capita-
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tion 'grant. That is one thing that might be considered when overlapping is under review. For there appears to be a good deal of overlapping—that is, if other cities are anything like Christchurch, where we have the Technical College and the Christchurch West High School both preparing pupils for the Civil Service, and the School of Art, where signwriting is taught as an art subject, not to mention other public and semi-public schools which the maintaining of social distinctions seem to make necessary, although they are a duplication of existing schools. In my opinion secondary education should be compulsory for, say, two years, and technical education should be compulsory during the first three years of a lad's apprenticeship unless certain stipulated examinations had been passed before that time. Such compulsory education should be free, and not even dependent on the passing of either a Fifth or a Sixth Standard examination. Many a boy who fails to pass the many subjects necessary for a Sixth Standard examination does very well with the few subjects necessary to his trade, and which the working at his trade makes interesting and understandable. I am aware that in some countries it has been recognized that such tuition should be given in the daytime, and should be actually part of the boy's recognized apprenticeship. A decree issued by the German Minister of Industry and Commerce as far back as 1904 states that " A continuation school working late will incur the risk of failing to achieve its purpose, and will not give an adequate return for the money spent on it. There is also a serious danger of overstraining the young pupils. It is my firm belief," it further states, "that the changing of the evening classes into day classes, as is now general in the Grand Duchy of Baden, would not hinder but advance industry. This view has been confirmed by experience and by the resolutions of quite a number of leading industrial and commercial corporations, as, for instance, by the Fourth Congress of the Chambers of Industry, by the Elders of the Berlin Union of Merchants, by the German Union of Mercantile Associations, &c." We do not appear to be far enough advanced in this country for taking such a step, to judge by the scant support accorded a provision incorporated in the last Education Amendment Bill providing that under certain conditions part of the time spent at technical classes should be during the regular working-hours. It may be interesting, however, to know that one employer favoured the provision, as may be noted from the following extract from a letter received by me from Mr. Howell, Director of the Christchurch Technical College : "You know that our Board is a very representative one, and they agreed with practical unanimity to support the Bill as it stands. An employer like Mr. George Scott most cordially supported it, saying that the employers would soon get used to allowing their apprentices the necessary time off, and would be amply rewarded by the increased efficiency of their employees." While we are waiting for the growth of a sentiment in favour of such a change as I have referred to, every encouragement ought to .be given to apprentices to attend the classes, and not only to attend but to do their best to pass the examinations. In this connection much can be done by the employers, and much can be done by the workers' unions as well as the educational authorities. The whole question of apprenticeship and technical education was gone into very carefully some two or three years ago by the Canterbury United Building Trades Committee, and one conclusion arrived at was that there must be some monetary encouragement to the apprentices to attend the technical schools and pass certain examinations. This they found would be simple in some trades, but difficult in others owing to the absence of a distinctive examination in some trades. For example, the committee drew up a provision in model apprentice conditions, such provision dealing with apprentices who received technical training. It was a simple matter to have almost the complete provision inserted in conditions of labour being drawn up by the carpenters and joiners, which read as follows : " Any apprentice who during his apprenticeship gains a two-years-course certificate in carpentry and joinery in any technical college situated in the industrial district covered by this award shall be paid at the rate of not less than ss. in excess of the ordinary apprentice rates." This could not be inserted in the labour conditions of the bricklayers, or the stonemasons, or many other unions where no lessons in the practice of the trade is given, and this is where the educational authorities could help. I had the honour of conducting the case for the carpenters before the Conciliation Council, and although the ss. asked was not obtained 2s. was granted during the last two years; and, what was most important of all, the principle was established. The following is the provision as it is to be found in the award : " Any apprentice who during his apprenticeship gains a two-years-course certificate in carpentry and joinery in any technical college situated in the industrial district covered by this award shall be paid during the last two years of his apprenticeship at the rate of not less than 2s. in excess of the ordinary apprentice rates." In the opinion of those who are responsible for the introduction of this provision there is room for improvement, in the direction of increasing the wage whenever the examination has been passed, which might be in the first year of apprenticeship if the lad had been attending the technical day school. As it is. the employer need not give the increase until the last two years. Here I would like to express the opinion that full advantage should be taken of the trade-unions by the educational authorities with a view to keeping them interested in education, particularly technical. It is not so much for the monetary assistance that might be obtained, but for the interest it wo : Id arouse in parents, the sequel of which would be an increased attendance. It is true that about thirteen unions in Christchurch contribute annual sums to the Christchurch Technical College ranging from £1 to £5, exclusive of the £10 ann -ally donated by t K e Trades and Labour Council. But when we realize that there are fifty unions in Christchurch alone, we can see clearly that a great deal more could be done, particularly as those fifty unions have a membership of 9,440, 50 per cent, of whom, it is safe to estimate, are married men. An attempt has recently been made in Christchurch to arouse interest in technical education. The contributing unions I have referred to have formed a Technical Education Committee. The committee is comprised of one representative from each contributing union. I have the honour to be the chairman of that committee. Our object is to assist the present Board of Management, not merely to criticize. The improvements that we consider necessary in the respective trades classes will be carefully considered from the workman's point of view before being submitted to the Board. We purpose deputationizing all the non-contributing unions with a view of securing their interest in technical education, and I believe
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we will be able to perform very good work. I have hopes that the committee will be a very useful-body, and will be able to do good work in the cause of technical education, particularly if we receive encouragement from the educational authorities. With respect to school-books, the idea is that they should be printed by the State and be given free to each child as his or her property. The practical, however, is that the whole printing, publishing, and importing of school-books should be taken up by the State, and that they should be sold at as near cost price as possible, but all writing-blocks should be free. At present writing-blo ks are a pretty expensive item to the parent with a slender income. 4. Mr. Wells.] Canvassing of Committeemen for positions goes on under the present system of sending in four names, does it not ?—Yes. 5. Do you think it would.be an improvement if teachers were graded by the Inspectors according to their efficiency, and simply the top name sent in ?—I think it would, but I also think it would be desirable that the two top names might be sent in. It might lessen the opposition that would no doubt follow the introduction of the system. 6. Do you think that at both the Technical School and the Christchurch East School signwriting should be taught ?—The painters' representatives consider that signwriting should be confined to the Technical School. Ido not think there should be duplication in the teaching of technical subjects. I can, however, give you one reason why two boys whom I know do not go to the Technical School, but go to the Christchurch West School : it is purely owing to the introduction in the mornings of Bible teaching at the Technical School. There is no compulsion on the pupils to attend the Bible instruction class, but these children were sent to another school to avoid the awkwardness that occurs amongst children owing to some staying away from the class. 7. Do you not think a big economy might be effected by the State importing all the stationery required for use in the public schools and distributing it through the Education Boards ? —I cannot say lam strongly in favour of that course. There is too frequent changing of books, although I recognize that it is necessary to change the books in order to keep up with the times. 8. The Chairman,] You do not favour the changing of books more than once in five years ?—I do not know 7 that I would limit it, but certainly not every year, as has been done. It would remove suspicion that there was some ulterior motive in the changing of books if the matter was taken out of the hands of the individual altogether and put in the hands of a special body of men. With such a good printing-office as that of the Government available there should be no necessity to import books for the schools. 9. Mr. Wells.] You do not advocate one uniform book throughout the Dominion ?—Wherever it is possible there should be uniform books throughout the Dominion, but at the same time I recognize that in any country there are certain industries in certain districts that might require in that district a different form of tuition to that of others. 10. You would allow some choice ?—Yes. 11. Mr. Davidson.] These voluntary contributions made by unions are subsidized by the State, are they not ? —That is so. 12. Have you considered the question of paying for technical education to some extent by the raising of a local rate to be generously subsidized by the State ?—That has been in my mind for some time in connection with education in general. When people knew that they were paying for a thing they might take more interest in the administration. 13. Do you think that if education districts were enlarged the one body could control primary, secondary, and technical education ?—I believe it would be a good idea. 14. Do you not think that what you refer to in regard to the introduction of Bible teaching in technical schools would disappear if all branches of education were under one body V. —l cannot see that it would make any alteration. The matter was brought up before the management of the Technical College, and one or two members suggested as a way out of the difficulty that the Director should allow it to cease. He immediately said he would do no such thing. 15. If one Board controlled the three systems of education there would be a uniform method adopted in regard to matters such as Bible teaching, &c ?—That would suit very well. 16. Can you say what attitude the trades-unions in your district take in regard to what is known as the part-time course in the technical schools ? —They are very sympathetic to it. 17. Would it strengthen our technical schools if the Government were to recognize the, prize boys of the various departments by giving certificates of entrance to the workshops and the several engineering departments ?—Yes. 18. Do you think it is to be desired ? —I do. 19. Would it not make them sounder and better trade schools if they w r ere not dependent- on such extraneous support as typewriting and shorthand ?—ln my opinion commercial classes should be away from the technical schools. Specialization would then be possible. 20. Do you not think it would be better to revert to the old system of one large district for the election of Boards, and that they should be returned under a system of proportional representation rather than by the ward system ? —I do not know that you would get a better class of men. I w 7 ould not be sure that you would get a better class of men, because we know that many capable men always avoid election. Alfred Andrew Hintz examined on oath. (No. 170.) 1. The Chairman.] What are you ? —I am Director of Technical Education in the Nelson District. I have been so employed for the last four years and a half. 2. What previous experience did you have as a teacher ?—I have been in the education service for seventeen years. 3. What is your educational status ? —I have aDI certificate.
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4. Have you prepared a statement '( —Yes. It is as follows : —I have drawn the following conclusions from my nine years|of|experience|in the[administration of that portion of the Act which affects my present position : (1.) That, with due allowance for local conditions, it is most desirable to have more uniformity in branches|of instruction undertaken in the various technical schools of the Dominion. There should be such similarity between the same courses of work in different schools that pupils, in transferring from one to another, would be assured of continuing their instruction on lines approaching those on which it had been begun. (2.) To secure this uniformity some central authority, with ample powers in the direction of the work and the training of staff, is necessary. (3.) That where secondary and technical schools are established in the same town or district the scope of each should be definitely fixed by such central authority, thus preventing that overlapping which at present exists. (4.) That better security of tenure of positions for permanently employed manual and technical instructors should be provided, especially in technical schools outside the four centres. At present an instructor may be employed for certain work. This work may decrease, the capitation revenue fall ofi, and the controlling authority, having no means of transfer of the instructor, be faced with no option but to terminate his engagement. Further, an epidemic may render it necessary to close a technical school or manual-training centre for some weeks, with consequent loss of capitation, and no provision whereby the instructor's salary, dependent to a large extent upon this capitation, may be made up. (5.) That a fixed scale of salaries for instructors in manual and technical work be provided, ((i.) That the system of capitation payments to controlling authorities for the carrying on of manual and technical instruction, while ample and most suitable for the development of the work on the lines it has followed during the last ten years, fails in the following respects : (a.) To efficiently conduct classes a controlling authority has to employ a permanent staff, thus undertaking, at the beginning of the year, a liability for salaries, while, unlike the cases of district high and primary schools, there is no definite assured revenue for the payment of such salaries until the end of the year. (6.) For reasons given in paragraph (4) the position of a manual or technical instructor is less secure than that of a primary-school teacher, and thus a hindrance to securing the best men is met with, (c.) Technical capitation cannot be claimed until ten weeks after the commencement of classes, and several further weeks elapse before claims are checked and payments made. The controlling authority, especially in a smaller centre where this branch of work is of recent development, has to carry on on overdraft, contrary to law. In a small district like Nelson the annual manual and technical revenue exceeds the ordinary Board grants for the administration of primary schools, and the salaries for permanent instructors total £2,115 per annum. The strain of providing a great portion of this amount prior to the coming to hand of capitation grants is a serious burden on the finances of a small Board, (d.) The amount of clerical work required in making up the now very complex claims for capitation is, in the smaller schools, out of all proportion to the amount claimed, (c.) The uncertainty attached to payments by capitation causes a controlling authority, and consequently its officials concerned, to often consider more the financial than the educational aspect. (7.) If the capitation system is to be retained i would suggest the following method of partially overcoming some of the defects enumerated : That the previous year's capitation be taken as a basis, and that a twelfth of this amount be paid each, month to the controlling authority, necessary adjustments being made at the end of the year. This would necessitate but one claim for capitation annually. (8.) Seeing that by far the largest amount expended upon technical education comes directly from the Government, and thus from the general taxpayer, the system should be a national (instead of a parochial) one in every sense of the word. Some Boards, and controlling authorities other than Boards, have done great work in the development of technical instruction, while in a few districts and centres of population little has yet been attempted. The work should be carried on on the same lines right throughout the Dominion. This and the abolition of the capitation payments would appear to be impossible with the present system of control and administration by so many local bodies. In my opinion, to efficiently and economically run technical instruction there should be one central Board or Council to appoint and control staffs, standardize the courses of instruction, arrange for specialization in districts requiring same and for examinations, and the issue of certificates that will earn recognition throughout the land. Local Committees or Boards, with clearly defined powers and subordinate to the central Board, could be established in each district or centre. Briefly, I would suggest the enlargement of the scheme followed in the Wanganui District into a national one. (9.) The system of voluntary local contributions for the support of manual and technical instruction leaves much to be desired, and for obvious reasons does not place all centres on an equal footing. In this district the West Coast local bodies contribute £75 per annum, while the Nelson City Council refuses altogether to make an annual grant or even to give a small unused portion of a reserve for extension of buildings. It has, however, given a total of £25 in the last eight years, and donated the site of the present school. If local support to technical instruction is to be affirmed, such support should be on a definite basis. (10.) Vocational training does not receive the support it merits. At Westport the day Engineering School is a purely vocational institution, providing sound theoretical and practical training for youths desiring to take up engineering. What encouragement does this institution receive ? The Marine Department has made provision in the Shipping and Seamen Act, 1911, for recognition, under certain conditions, of the time served at such a school as part-time towards the five years' service required before a youth can sit for his third marine certificate. There is as yet no provision for the recognition by employers of the additional value of technically trained youths, nor can it be expected that private firms will give such when the Railway Department absolutely refuses to in any way recognize what another Department of State is encouraging and paying for. I approached the General Manager of Railways re the recognition by preference of employment, all other things being equal, and by increased wages, of boys who had satisfactorily passed through a two-years course of thirty hours per week at the Engineering School, and I also asked that the age-limit of admission (under sixteen years) be waived in such cases,
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but both requests were refused. Vocational training cannot hope to make much, progress unless more co-operation than at present indicated is shown, by various Government Departments. The Postal -Department, on the other hand, is anxious to assist in every way. (11.) I consider that most of the school-children taking a course of manual training in woodwork or cookery are commencing too young, and with a groundwork insufficient to enable them to secure the full benefits of the work. Provided tihat attendance at manual training could be made compulsory it would be better to postpone it till after the Sixth Standard has been passed. Special attention might then be paid in Standards V and VI to training boys in model and geometrical drawing and cardboard-modelling, and girls in elementary chemistry and physiology, a better grounding in these subjects tending greatly to facilitate the work of the special manual instructors. 5. Mr. Wells.] That last suggestion of yours refers simply to the woodwork, does it not ?—Woodwork and cookery. 6. You would not have girls receive instruction in cookery in Standards V and VI ?—I think they are starting rather young. 7. I understand that suggestion is made only in the event of continuation classes being established and attendance being made compulsory ?—That is so. 8. If that were not done you would still approve of woodwork and cookery being taken as at present ?—Yes. I believe, it would have a better effect if it could be postponed. 9. With regard to the Council of Education which you suggest should be set up, have you given any thought to the composition of that body ?—No ; I hardly thought that came within my sphere. 10. Are you thinking simply of an advisory body ?—No, of one controlling body instead of a number, all working on different lines. 11. Do you think the Education Board might control primary, secondary, and technical education in its own district, given at the same time a strong local Committee to supervise the Technical School, for instance, and foster local interest ?—lt all depends upon the constitution of the Board. In my experience in New Zealand I have seen a number of Boards to whom that power might be given, but I doubt if it would do in all cases as the Boards are at present constituted. 12. You are thinking of the present conditions and of the existence of a number of very small Boards ? —Yes. 13. Do you think it would be an advantage to the system if a number of these smaller Boards were amalgamated ? —Most decidedly. 14. How many Boards would you suggest might manage affairs for the, Dominion ?—I do not see why Boards should not do it, having scmewhat similar districts to the present military districts. 15. Or the University districts ?—No, I hardly think so. 16. What is the difference ?—With the University district Nelson and, I think, the West Coast are brought into the Middle District. 17. Nelson, Grey, and Marlborough, I think, are thrown into the Victoria College District ? — Prospective railway-construction, I should think, would make that district much more suitably attached to Canterbury. The Defence authorities have found it more suitable to work the northern portion of the South Island from Christchurch than from Wellington. 18. At the present time do you think there would be any difficulty in working, say, Marlborough and Nelson from Wellington ? —I do not think so. 19. With regard to the returns that you complain of, have you thought out any reforms in connection with those returns ?—I do not think, with the present condition of affairs, that the Department can possibly simplify those returns. Under the present system the Department has to have all the information given in those returns. Seeing that there are a number of Boards working in different styles the Department has necessarily to demand a great deal from those Boards, but with one central Board matters could be very much simplified. 20. Do the manual-training returns pass through their hands ? —Yes. 21. Do you think the present system of carrying on that work by means of capitation is a good one —I mean handwork in primary schools ?—I think a grant per capita would be a simpler and more satisfactory arrangement, and that the work might be treated as school-work. 22. That would do away with a number of returns ?—Yes. 23. With regard to technical training, do you suggest that a three-years course in a technical training school might be looked upon as equivalent to a year of apprenticeship ?—lt all depends on what line it is. Dealing especially with engineering, I should say that a boy who has had two years' training at a good technical school with an engineering department, and has been there every day in the week, is a more capable boy at the end of that two years than a boy who has put in two years in a foundry. I have made tests along these lines myself, and I have found that the former will lose the other hoy ; but he fails in this respect: at a technical school he is trained to work with accuracy and not against time. In a commercial workshop a boy is trained to work against time, and unfortunately, in New Zealand, not with too much accuracy. 24. A boy who has put in, say, a couple of years at the technical school will out-distance, will he not, a boy who has not had that training ?—Yes. 25. Then it would be only fair to give him some recognition of that ?—Unless we do that I do not see it is much use our carrying on a vocational training of any kind. 26. Do you know how that is viewed by employers in Nelson ?—ln Nelson I have not touched on the matter. I have touched on it in Westport, where I have interviewed a number of employers. They immediately point out that the boy from the technical school is too careful and accurate ; he wastes too much time over care and accuracy. They do not mind a boy breaking tools and knocking their machines about so long as he gets through the work. 27. Do you have many boys come to your evening trade classes who have put in a day's work ?— Only in plumbing and engineering, and a few in carpentry. I find the engineering pupils and the
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plumbing pupils much more earnest over their work than those engaged in the building trades, simply because, I conclude, every little advantage that an engineer can get helps him ; a plumber also has to get his necessary certificates. But a boy who takes up the carpentry trade simply fills in his time, and no matter how good or bad a workman he be at the conclusion of his time he, can get the minimum wage, and-he sees no incentive to work. 28. What have you found with regard to the physical fitness of those boys who undertake study in the evening after the day's work ?—I do not know that I have particularly observed, but Ido not think it is in any way undermining a, boy's constitution to attend a technical school after his day's work. 29. You have not found them so physically tired as to go off to sleep ?—No. 30. Do you know of any instance of overlapping in your district ?—Yes, I think so. I do not know that it could be called serious overlapping, but there are certain courses of work taken at the Technical School and also at the Colleges in Nelson which might just as well be confined to the one or the other. 31. What work is that ?—There is, for instance, a commercial course at the Technical School, and —speaking only from outside knowledge, for I have never been in the Colleges —I understand there is a commercial course at the Colleges as well. At the Girls' College I think it is a commercial course only in name. 32. What is it —shorthand and typewriting ? —I do not think they even teach typewriting. I know they have a teacher there who teaches shorthand. 33. Is that the only instance of overlapping that you know of in your district ? —We have an art department at the Technical School which we are specializing in to a very considerable extent, and the Girls' College are anxious to extend their art department, consequently they are borrowing our instructor. Some art-work should be included in any course of either technical or secondary education, so that you can hardly call that overlapping. 34. Are those instances all that you know of in your district ?—Yes, I think so. I have tried to avoid overlapping at the Technical School by cutting out all matter in which we should clash with the Colleges. We have now no Civil Service courses or anything of that kind. 35. Are you in Nelson all your time ? —No ;Igo to Westport. We have a technical school there and a manual school at Reefton. The main work at Reefton is done by the School of Mines. 36. Do you take classes yourself ? —No, I am not teaching, simply directing the work. I do occasional teaching if I want to see how a class is getting on. 37. Do you find any difficulty in getting instructors ?—No, provided you are prepared to pay a salary. We have been exceedingly fortunate in instructors. The only difficulty we have found is to get an instructor who can take commercial work and at the same time the necessary English, arithmetic, and mathematics taught in the Technical School. 38. Are you able to get instructors who have had any training in teaching the trade subjects ?— No ; but we have been fortunate in hitting upon men with natural ability for the w-ork. 39. Mr. Kirk,] In what proportions do the boys and girls attend the technical schools in your district ?—ln the day classes I. should say the percentage of girls is fully 90 in Nelson ; in Westport the only day classes are at the Engineering Day School, which is attended by eighteen or twenty boys. 40. What subjects are those 90 per cent, of girls taking ?—Either art, domestic, or commercial courses —in most cases a combination of two of those courses. 41. What proportions are there in the domestic and commercial courses ?—ln the commercial course they are all girls. Ido not believe in making cheap clerks of boys. If I can possibly keep a boy out of a day commercial course I do so. 42. Is there any special significance conveyed to your mind by the fact that so many girls go in for the commercial course ?—Yes, I think there are quite a number of girls who are looking for an easy and gentle employment rather than go into a shop or to domestic service. The number of girls offering is altogether out of proportion to the number of billets open to them in a town such as Nelson. 43. Do those girls who are taking the commercial course take also a domestic course ?—As far as possible. I have girls coming in from the country, and it is impossible, with the staff at my disposal and the intricate manual and technical time-table I have to arrange, to take them all in ; but as far as possible I make a girl take a domestic^course. 44. And that domestic course consists of ?—Cookery and domestic economy, dressmaking and millinery. 45. What are the proportions in the evening classes ?—There is a fair excess of boys there. 46. What subjects are the girls taking in the evening classes ? —The same courses again. 47. Do you insist there also that those girls should take the domestic course ?—Not in all cases. A great number of the girls I get in the evening classes are the girls I have previously had in afternoon classes. 48. Mr. Davidson.] You say that the number of girls taking the commercial course is greatly in excess of the number of positions likely to be available. Do you think the country, then, is getting an adequate return for the money spent on these girls on commercial work ? —I do not think so, on general commercial work. 49. Do you think typewriting is really a subject that should be taken in a technical school ?— My own conclusion, from what I have seen of the teaching of typewriting, is that it is of very little educational value ; it is a case of showing a person the points about a machine, and leaving him or her to practise. Typewriting and shorthand instruction usually go on at the same time. While the instructor is teaching shorthand the few typewriters available are being used. If you could teach touch typewriting, and see that it was being followed all the time, I should say it would be well worth teaching.
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50. Is typewriting not a subject that might very well be left to outside teachers altogether apart from the technical school I—Employersl—Employers in Nelson nearly always come to me when they want a girl -for the office, and I find they insist on girls being able to type ; but any girl with any adaptability at all could easily, by having the use of a typewriter for a couple of months, make herself proficient in typewriting. 51. Are there no private teachers of typewriting in Nelson ?—One that I know of. 52. Do the pupils from that private teacher not find employment as readily as those from the Technical School ?—The person in question has very few pupils, from the fact that most of them, can get free places at the Technical School. 53. About how many machines have you in connection with the two schools ?—We have eight machines at Nelson and five at Westport. At Westport, how<ever, the typewriting and shorthand work in the daytime is taken as part of the High School course, and not as part of the technical work. There is a District High School at Westport. 54. Is there any overlapping in connection with those two institutions ? —The Technical School at Westport is, I might almost, say, entirely an engineering school. We take commercial work there in the evenings only. 55. In your opinion could not these two subjects —typewriting and shorthand —be very well left out of the ordinary technical-school course ?—I think shorthand is a thing that anybody entering an office requires. I find that even the boys who are taking up the study of accountancy with a view to sitting for the examinations now being conducted by the University are anxious to take shorthand. They say that shorthand is invaluable to them in office-work. 56. You condemn the method of payment by means of the capitation grant ? —Yes. 57. AVhat would you substitute for it ?—Under the present conditions I do not see that any substitution can be made. 58. Mr. Hogben.] Referring to the question of payment by capitation, are you not aware that schools can obtain interim payments on the basis of the year before ? —For school classes. 59. For school classes, and sometimes for other classes too ? —There is no provision by regulation for other classes. 60. Are you aware that it is done now ?—I am very glad to know it. I have always claimed interim payments for school classes, but not for the technical work. 61. In that case there would only be one detailed claim made during the year ? —Yes. Would the Department be quite satisfied with that ? 62. Yes ; but the basis would have to be carefully stated. You have not heard anything of that ?—No. Joseph Harrison Worboys examined on. oath. (No. 171.) 1. The Chairman.] What are you ?—Headmaster of the Kilbirnie School. I have been sixteen years in that position. 2. And before that ? —I was for another sixteen years in various positions. 3. Your educational status is ? —CI. 4. You have prepared a statement on behalf of the Wellington District Educational Institute ?— That is so. 5. Will you please read it ?—The purport of my evidence is, briefly, (a) to urge the desirability of amalgamating- small country schools ; (b) to urge that in future efforts should be made to avoid the multiplying of little schools in districts where children can be conveyed to a central school; These two recommendations are made in the. interests of (a) the children, (6) the teachers, (c) efficiency of work, (d) economy of administration. For the children and for efficiency there would be— (a.) More efficient instruction in the larger school, due to less classes under one teacher ; in the little schools the one teacher may have six standards and Class P. (b.) More competent teachers would be obtainable owing to better salaries paid, (c.) There would be opportunity to include in school course of education such subjects as cookery and woodwork. These are impossible in the small school, (d.) Stimulus to work would be increased, by contact with greater number of children ; there would be more to interest them both in and out of school, (c.) Boys and girls would have an opportunity of joining in games with children of their own size—cricket and football, tennis and hockey, all useful aids to formation of character. (/.) The work in the larger school would afford better preparation for the work of the secondary school, (g.) There is less frequent change of teachers in the larger school. In the small school no teacher will stay who can get away. Generally, if a sole teacher is any good he gets promotion ;if no good he stays where he is, to the injury of the children. The salary paid now is not sufficient to secure a good teacher—often it is less than that of a road labourer. For the teacher there would be better salary and better environment. Better opportunity would be afforded for acquiring good methods. In the little school the sole teacher is dependent for advice and help on the visits of an Inspector ; in the larger school the same teacher would have the advantage of the experience and help of the head teacher and capable assistants. By extending the number of larger schools you increase the number of better-salaried positions and so widen the field for promotion. For economy :In view of the constantly increasing annual cost of education this is a serious matter. At the end of 1910 there were 1,280 sole-teacher schools in the Dominion out of 2,096 public schools. It is known that the small schools.absorb relatively more money for maintenance than do the larger schools. 1,280 schools at, say, £305 each cost £390,000. Probably with a change in the building policy of the Department 600 schools would suffice for the same children and 600 schools at, say, £450 each would cost £270,000. With amalgamation a saving would be effected in (a) salaries, (b) house allowance, (c) maintenance, (d,) capitation. In many cases the amalgamation of a small school with a larger school would make no alteration in grade or only a difference of one grade ; but there are many cases where not only two
. H. WOEBOTS.]
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but three or four schools could be combined, showing a marked saving in cost. Where conveyance of.children has been tried in this district it has proved a success. By way of example I might mention Ponoutawhao, a district just outside of Levin. I have here a plan showing where the children are conveyed from to the Levin School [plan produced]. Figures that I have here show that with a school at Ponoutawhao the cost would be—lnterest on cost of building, say, £300 at 5 per cent, for six years, £90 ; salary of teacher, Grade 2, for six years, £795 ; house allowance, six years, at £15, £90 ; capitation to Committee, £60 ; maintenance for six years, £35 ; incidentals for six years, £30 : total, £1,155. When the children are conveyed the cost, reckoning an average of twenty children daily at 6d. each for six years (of forty-four weeks per year), comes to £660, showing a saving of about £82 a year. The teacher at the Levin School, where these children attend, says, " Children are now being conveyed from Ponoutawhao and Kimberley Road. Ponoutawhao service has been in operation since 1906 ; Kimberley Road for over two years; Gladstone Road service, after being in operation for a year, was discontinued owing to families leaving and other children growing beyond school-age. From Ponoutawhao we have had as many as thirty-two being carried. Just now the numbers are— Ponoutawhao 17, Kimberley Road 15. Distances: Ponoutawhao, six miles; Gladstone Road, three and a half to four miles; Kimberley Road, four to four and a quarter miles. Advantages of conveyance : (a.) Each child is taught in a standard class. (Levin, each standard under one teacher.) (b.) Regular attendance is maintained. (Attendance, especially from Gladstone Road, is higher per cent, than that of school as a whole.) (c.) It is much cheaper than building and maintaining a small school. (Figures re Ponoutawhao show that it is cheaper.)" In this same letter reference is made to the establishment of a school at a small place a short distance from Ohau. It is shown on the plan I produced just now 7. At this school the attendance is twenty-eight, and at the Ohau School Seventyfive. We claim that it would be an advantage, from the point of view of both economy and efficiency, if the children had been conveyed to Ohau instead of a separate school being erected. I would strongly recommend that a definite Stand should be made by the Government against local attempts to build small schools in the immediate neighbourhood of established schools. An example will lend force to the recommendation. According to newspaper reports, at Heretaunga, two miles from Upper Hutt School, a school has been applied for. The Education Board supports the proposal to build a school. The Department has objected, and has stated that an application for more accommodation at the Upper Hutt would be more favourably considered. This is an example of the need for a definite stand to be made by the Government. We suggest that in many cases the agitation for the building of a school is not carried on necessarily because a school is needed, but because a building is desired in the district which shall serve as a meeting-place for either church purposes or Social purposes. It is known that in. certain cases people have been, successful in getting in this way a cheap hall or church. The regulations provide that no grant for conveyance will be made for a less distance than, three miles. We recommend that in. many cases amalgamation is desirable where schools are less than three miles apart. For example : The Carterton School bell can be heard at five neighbouring schools. These are —Belvedere, average forty-seven, under two miles ; Dalefield, average fifty-two, two miles ; Clareville, average eighty-three, under two miles; Parkvale, average fifty, under three miles ; Waihakeke, average twenty-eight, three miles. Whilst it would not pay to convey all these children to the main school at Carterton, the majority of the children are within easy walking distance, and the few who live outside the three-mile limit could be conveyed at little cost. We claim that at one central school such as Carterton (average now 269), with a combined attendance of 529, you would obtain greater efficiency of work at a greatly reduced cost. Pahiatua District High School, with its neighbouring schools, affords another example of the desirability of amalgamation. A few years ago Pahiatua School had a roll number of 419. The number is now down to 208, owing to the multiplicity of small schools in the immediate neighbourhood. We have worked out several examples showing the saving that might be effected at several small schools by amalgamation. The figures are as follow — Heretaunga : Average at one time, 51; now split up into four schools. Two of them have temporary sawmills in neighbourhood, otherwise there has been no increased settlement. Heretaunga (average now 13) : Salary, £121 13s. 4d. ; interest on residence, £15 ; maintenance, £6 10s. ; Committee, £10 : total, £153 3s.'4d. Cost of conveyance: 13 at 6d. = 6s. 6d. x 5 =£1 12s. 6d. x 44 = £71 10s. Maharahara West (average 21) : Salary, £140 ; house allowance, £15 ; incidental expenses, £9 lis. ; maintenance, £7 15s. ; Committee, £10 : total, £182 6s. Add Heretaunga, £153 3s. 4d. = £335 10s., say, cost of two schools. By combining (no rise in grade) : Maharahara West, say, £190 ; conveyance of thirteen, say, £71 10s. : total, £261 10s., cost of two combined. Saving, £74. Mauriceville East (average 27) : Salary, £144 ; house allowance, £20 ; incidentals, £10 lis. 6d. ; maintenance, £2 ; Committee, £12 : -total, £188 lis. 6d. Dreyer's Rock Road (average 9) : Salary, £99 ; house, £10 ; Committee, £6 ; incidentals, £3 ; maintenance, £2 : total,_ £120. Cost of conveyance : 9 at 6d. x 5 x 44 = £49 10s. Combined : Salary, say, £150 ; house, £20 ; incidentals, £10 lis. 6d. ; maintenance, £2 ; Committee, £15 ; cost of conveyance, £49 10s. : total, £247, say. Separately, £308. Saving, £61. Hastwell (average 46): Salaries, £297; house, £25; Committee, £16; incidentals, £5 ; maintenance, £5 : total, £348. Mangamahoe (average 18) : Salary, £152 ; house, £10 ; Committee, £10 ; incidentals, £5 ; maintenance, £5 : total, £182. Cost of conveyance, 18 at 6d. xsx 44 = £99. Hastwell, £348 ; Mangamahoe, £182 = £530 separately. Combined : Hastwell (no rise in grade), £348, £99 : total, £447. Saving, £83 a year. All these schools are shown on the maps which I produce [handed in]. It occurs to us that while the' Government grant of 6d. a head might in Some cases not be quite sufficient to pay a man to run. a vehicle solely for the conveyance of children, such a vehicle running along a country road would be Sure to pick up passengers ; it would be sure to do a certain trade in parcels ; thus there would be a revenue for the driver apart from the 6d. a head he received from the Government.
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6. Mr. Wells.] Do you think the allowance of 6d. a head for conveyance of children is sufficient ?— I" understand it is not. lam told that at Levin Bd. a head is being paid. Ido not know whether the extra 2d. is given by the Department or is raised locally. 7. Do you think Bd. is sufficient ? —Yes, we thought that Bd. would be sufficient. 8. Would there be great difficulty in many districts in getting some one to do this work ?—We are not all quite familiar with the country districts, but in many of them carts or expresses are used for the conveyance of milk, and we thought that perhaps if a covered conveyance were used arrangements could be made so that one part of the vehicle could be used for the milk and kept apart from the children, who would be conveyed in the closed-in compartment. 9. Would you subsidize ponies and bicycles ?—The Department will not recognize horses or bicycles, I believe. Ido not know why. 10. But do you think they should be recognized ?—lt is very hard to say where to draw the line. If you recognize a horse you must recognize a bicycle. In one particular district in Taranaki Shetland ponies are reared extensively—purely for the use of children riding to school. When a man goes to the expense of £8 for a pony I think he should be subsidized. 11. Mr. Davidson,] Do you know what rate is paid for the conveyance of children in any other country ?—No, I have had no opportunity of finding out. Clement Watson examined on oath. (No. 172.) 1. The Chairman.] What are you ?—Headmaster of the Te Aro School. 2. How long have you been employed in that capacity ?—For about thirty years. 3. Your educational status is ?—Bl. I am a Bachelor of Arts of the New Zealand University. 4. You have prepared a statement on behalf of the Wellington District Educational Institute ?— Yes. 5. Will you please read it ?—lt is as follows : The Wellington District Educational Institute desires to offer for the consideration of the Commission the advisability of establishing a Dominion Council of Education. Such a body, we consider, should have functions strictly advisory, not administrative ; it should be so constituted as to be competent to give advice on all matters educational, university, secondary, primary, and technical. Therefore it should be made up of representatives of University professors, secondary-school teachers, primary-school teachers, Inspectors, technical schools, and perhaps Chambers of Commerce. One-third of the members might be elected or nominated, say, every three years. We desire here to say that the constitution here outlined is suggestive only. It might be wise to give other bodies, such as College Councils and Education Boards, some representation, yet we hold this Council should be one almost exclusively of experts. We think, in any case, the Council should not be large. Its functions would be, among others, to collect information on the progress of education in other parts of the world ;to suggest to the Department w 7 hat steps should be taken to keep our system alive, growing, and improving. It would be able to offer sound advice as to expenditure of money on any particular Department of Education ; on the relations and sequence of primary, secondary, and university education ; on courses of instruction ; on examinations. In general, it would be a body of experts whose knowledge and advice would at all times be available to the Minister. It would prompt, stimulate, and restrain ; would tend to unify and strengthen the whole education of the Dominion. It may be asked, " What need is there for any such body ? " We submit some reasons. Government Departments are admittedly and of natural course conservative — slow to depart from accepted ways, resistant to reforms and new departures. Radical changes, however wise and necessary, can only be forced on them by outside influence and pressure of opinion— a slow process always thus to move to unusual action any Government Department. Hitherto this Dominion has had to rely mainly upon, its Inspector-General for initiative in reforms in the syllabus, examination of schools and of teachers, and generally for keeping our education abreast with the best movements of the day. We desire to express here our opinion that this Dominion owes an immense debt to the present Inspector-General. It is mainly to his wisdom, wide knowledge of education all over the world, and his impelling personality that the progress and expansion of recent years are due. We teachers are well aware of the grejit work he has done; the general public is not. But it may not always be thus. Suppose that a future Inspector-General should be a mere political appointment, without wide knowledge of education, without zeal ; or a man absorbed in his administrative duties— and they are onerous ; or a man of narrow, too conservative, turn of mind ; or, on the other hand a man too recklessly ready to run after every fanciful idea—what then might be the position of education in the Dominion % It would have, on the one hand, no initiating, propelling force ;on the other no restraining- hand ; it might run into grotesque extravagance. Of course, there is always a Minister of Education at the head of the Department, but it is only by a rare chance that a Minister has a wide and expert knowledge of great education questions. The Minister is always more or less the man of the political situation. Of the seven or eight men at any time available to form a Cabinet, it is hardly likely that any one will be specially fitted by knowledge and disposition to do more than the mere administration of his Department. But to initiate reforms, to introduce new ideas, to put life and.a spirit of progress into the education of the Dominion, to whip it up abreast with the best in the world, all this is too much to expect of every Minister of Education. In such circumstances a Council of Education, such as we suggest, might be of enormous advantage to the Dominion. The Executive and Government of the day would have right at hand a body fit to give reliable information and sound, advice ; to prompt when to spend generously with a certainty of a rich return ; when to keep a tight hand on the public purse. Especially in dealing with the University would the proposed Council be of great help to the Government of the day. The Government contributes considerable sums towards the maintenance of the colleges ; and, if it is to still keep to its past policy of making University
. WATSON.]
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education cheaply open to all the Government will have to give still more liberally to these colleges as students increase in number and the work broadens out. At present the Government of the day must depend on the personal knowledge and wisdom of the Minister and the advice of the officials as to how much and in what direction it should assist the colleges. But with a Council as suggested at its elbow a Minister of Education could immediately get such information and advice as would put him in a position to decide on the right course. To a like degree the Council would be useful in matters connected with high schools and technical schools, both of which draw largely on the national purse. Finally, a Council of Education on these lines would cost the country practically nothing ; it need-not disturb existing organization at all. 6. Mr. Wells.] Why do you say the Council of Education should be advisory only and not directory ?—I have read some of the evidence and have heard a good many opinions on the question of this Council having administrative powers, but I have seen nobody follow it out. Supposing this Council is to have administrative powers, you must give it full powers if it has any at all. That means you are going to throw on it an enormous amount of work. How are you going to get that Council together and keep it together long enough to do that work ? I cannot make out whether those gentlemen who are advocating a Council have in mind a Council of experts, or whether it is to be a representative Council composed of men gathered from all the four corners of New Zealand. There will be an enormous amount of work for this Council to do if it is to take over the functions that are now in the hands of the Education Department. Such a radical alteration would upset everything. It seems to me that if you had this administrative Council with plenary powers there would not be much need for a Minister of Education. We are not amongst those who would root up and tear down everything and scatter to the winds that which has brought us thus far fairly successfully. I say " fairly successfully " advisedly, because many of our experts have been Home and have seen education in other parts of the world, and they do not come back with very long faces and tell us everything is in a terribly bad condition. Considering that ours is only a small country —and a difficult country, perhaps, with poor means of communication —on the whole our education is not very bad, and after we have come this far with our present arrangements why should we tear it all down and put something else in its place ? 7. You think that an advisory body would have sufficient power to do real good ? —-Yes, I think it might be a very valuable help at times. 8. The Chairman.] You say it should not be a large body : how are you going to make it small if all the interests that should be represented on it receive representation ? For example, I presume the Minister ought to preside :do you think so ? —I do not know that he should necessarily. 9. But surely, if the Minister is responsible to the Parliament and the country, he ought to know what is going on ? —Oh, certainly. 10. Is it not a fact that the Dominion has had the benefit of many able and educated men as Ministers of Education ? I will give you the names of a few men who have presided over the Department : Bowen, Stout, Reeves, Rolleston, W. C. Walker. Those are or were men of educational brilliance :is that not so ?—Oh, yes. Ido not wish you to understand that Ido not think that. 11. Is it not the right thing that the Minister, who is responsible to the country for the expenditure, should be in a position to inform Parliament of the why and wherefore of any course that is taken ?—I certainly should have no objection to his presiding. 12. You would naturally place the Inspector-General at the head of the list, would you not ?—■ He should be on the Council, perhaps. 13. The Government of the day, which finds the larger proportion of the money that is spent, should be adequately represented by its Inspector-General and by its Chief Inspectors of primary, secondary, and technical education. That makes five. Then you recognize that the University should receive some measure of representation ? —I have suggested a professor. 14. We will say one for the University. Ought not the secondary schools, boys' and girls', to be conjointly represented ? —I have suggested one there, I think. 15. The primary schools similarly ?—Yes. 16. And the Education Boards, surely, if we are going to give them enlarged responsibilities, should be represented ? Is it possible to constitute a Council of the kind, and make it efficient, even if only an advisory body, with less than twelve members ?—Perhaps not. That would not be a very large Council. 17. As long as I understand you do not limit it to half a dozen I am quite satisfied with your answer ? —I should not object to a Council of twelve. I think it should be kept as small as possible. 18. But can it be kept small having regard to the variety of interests that must be represented on it ? —No ; it should represent education interests as widely as possible. Stuart Duncan made affirmation and was examined. (No. 173.) 1. The Chairman.] You are the representative of the Manawatu Branch of the Wellington District Educational Institute ?—Yes. 2. Are you headmaster of a school ?—Yes, at Waikanae. 3. And have been so employed for ?—Six years. Prior to that I was at Waione School. 4. Your teaching experience extends over ?—About thirteen years. 5. What is your grade in the Department ? —CI. 6. If you have prepared a statement will you kindly read it ?—lt is as follows : —Superannuation : Owing to various circumstances some teachers were unable to contribute when the scheme first came into force. For instance, a teacher had no residence : he was buying a house ; paying insurance on life, house, and furniture, and contributing to benefit lodge. He was given an increase of £5 to enable him to contribute £11. He could not then afford it, and is now unable to join. On behalf of such
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unfortunate ones I would ask that they now be allowed to join. I desire to make a plea for greaterefficiency in the small country schools. The shortage of teachers in these schools appears to be owing to the service not being attractive enough. There appears to be a danger that in a few 7 years the difficulty of obtaining teachers for these schools will be greatly increased. After being trained in towns teachers will not relish the idea of going into the backblocks, where conditions are anything but attractive. The capitation basis of payment of salaries presses heavily on the teachers of the lower-grade schools, where, through the removal of one or two families from a district, a teacher may •have not only a reduction in salary but also a reduction in house allowance. Many of these positions are filled by women. Personally lam of opinion they are not fit places for women. The efficiency of Grade 4 schools might be improved if salaries of assistants in this grade were raised. Teachers with experience in larger schools might then be attracted. At present these positions are filled by inexperienced teachers direct from the training colleges, and sometimes a difficulty is experienced in obtaining qualified teachers at all. The requirements of the new regulations for D certificate make it impossible for teachers in remote districts to qualify, unless facilities are provided for obtaining the practical course in science. The uncertificated-teacher problem might be dealt with by allowing teachers to take the D certificate in smaller sections. 7. Mr. Wells.] With regard to that last point, do you think it would be sufficient if teachers were allowed to take the examination for Class Din two equal sections ?—I think it would be better for all teachers in remote districts if it were taken in three. 8. With regard to the practical work required for hygiene in the new regulations, if the Education Board provided facilities for that practical w 7 ork to be done would you still object ?—No. 9. Have you studied the new regulations with regard to the C examination ?—No. 10. You do not know how many hours' practical work is required for science subjects under the new regulations ?—No. 11. Assuming it is eighty hours, do you think that will make it a more difficult matter for country teachers to obtain a C certificate in future ? —I think it undoubtedly will. 12. Do you think that will have any effect in the way of making country service more unpopular ? - —I should say so, decidedly. 13. Do you think it would be a fair thing to arrange for facilities for that practical work, and to have it in the holidays ?—I think a great many teachers would take advantage of it if they could get that. 14. Do you think it a fair thing to ask teachers to give up their holidays in order to take that practical work ?—Personally I should say there is no great hardship about it. 15. With regard to those who have unfortunately been prevented from joining the superannuation scheme, do you suggest that they should pay up the back contributions, with interest ?—Yes, I think they are quite willing to do that. 16. Mr. Kirk.] Would you care to express an opinion as to the value of the School Journal ? — I. think it is very helpful in the schools now. It has improved very greatly, and I should say it is an acquisition to the school reading-matter. 17. Have you a library in your school ? —Yes. 18. Have you anything to say with regard to its use and advantage or otherwise ? —With regard to free books, I think that if some of the money that is now spent on free books were spent on books for the libraries it would be more beneficial. 19. Is the library at your school useful ?—Undoubtedly it is. 20. Do you find the books are availed of ?—Yes, to a very considerable extent. 21. What class of book is taken out mostly ?—I could not answer very definitely about that. We have a good many books dealing with nature-study and things of that kind, and those, J think, are mostly used. 22. What do you do in the way of reading in your school: do you make use of any of those library books for continuous reading ?—Recently I have not. We have free history-books and several other continuous stories that have been sent in from the Department. We are making use of those. Before they came out we made use of the libraries. 23. Mr. Davidson.] Do you think the teachers who went out between the Ist January, 1906, and the 10th October, 1908, on 120ths-' instead of 60ths, should be allowed the more liberal rate in computing their retiring-allowance ?—I would rather not express an opinion. 24. The Chairman.] Seeing that they were told with the full authority of the Minister of the day that they could not hope for more than 120ths, do you not think that the same opportunity should be given them on the score of equity, provided that they are willing to come in on exactly the same terms as the others ? —I should think so. 25. Mr. Davidson.] You said that the assistant in a Grade 4 school should receive a higher rate of salary than at present. Have you compared the staff of such a school and the salary paid to the, assistant now with the state of affairs ten years ago ?—No. I was looking only to the efficiency of those schools. It seems to me that if the teachers had some experience in town schools, or in the larger schools first, they would be better able to cope with the work in their schools, where the headmaster is unable to give them much attention. 26. Do you know 7 of any country in the world where such a liberal scale of staffing is allowed in that class of school as in New Zealand ?—I do not. 27. Do you think there is any difficulty in filling up that class of position ?—I think there has been a difficulty. A school within three miles of me had difficulty quite recently. It was advertised for two months running, and I believe they were unable to get a teacher. 28. When the training colleges have been in operation for a few years more do you think that difficulty will still exist ?—-I think so. The difficulty will probably be greater than now, for the reason that the teachers, being trained in the towns, will not care to go to the backblock schools.
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29. If the number of teachers exceeds the number of positions will they not then be glad to take such positions ?—ln such a contingency they probably would, but there does not seem to be much prospect of that taking place. 30. Mr. Pirani.] You refer in your statement to inexperienced teachers coming from the trainingcollege ?—I think those teachers, straight from the training college, have not had experience as assistants in schools. 31. Do they not get that experience in the training college ?—I think the students are working with, very small classes, and have very little experience with a number of classes. 32. Do you know that they get a certain amount of instruction in the training college to fit them for a country school with from thirty to thirty-six pupils? —With the number of students there are in the college they could hardly get any great amount of training. 33. Mr. Hogben.] With regard to the people who joined the Superannuation Fund in the first six months of 1906, do you know that they could join the fund if the Board admitted them on paying arrears of interest until October, 1908 ?—Till about that time. 34. What you want is the restoration of section 235 (2) of the original Act ?—I suppose so. 35. Would you leave an option like that open for ever ? —I should say not. Ido not think it would be necessary to leave it open for ever. The teachers concerned were probably not in a position, to join then, but they would probably be able to join now. There will be none of them left in a very few years. 36. How long would you have it left open ?—I should think six months would be sufficient to meet the case. 37. You. think their inability to join within the time of the option was their real reason for not doing so ? —Personally I do not know very much about the matter, but it has been put so by one or two teachers who were in that position. 38. Do you think the majority of them were simply waiting to see if the proposal would succeed or not ? Do you think that sort of people deserve consideration ?—lf that is so I certainly think they do not. 39. The Chairman.} Was it not the case that the petition presented to Parliament set forth that certain persons who were shut out were unable from a variety of causes, which they explained, to make the payments, by reason of financial stress —that some had relatives dependent upon them, and others had met with heavy losses —in the dredging boom, for example ? Are you satisfied that if they are allowed a further six months that would meet all necessitous cases ?—I think so. 40. Mr. Davidson.] Do you know that the rights of the teachers and the power of the Board were withdrawn at the very end of the session, and without notice ?—No. 41. If that were so do you not think that would be a good ground for requesting that those rights and that power should be restored for six months ? —I should think it would be. Mary Gill examined on oath. (No. 174.) 1. The Chairman.] Your name and position?—l am the wife of Mr. T. H. Gill, Inspector of Secondary Schools under the Education Department. lam president of the Wellington Free Kindergarten Union, and appear in place of Miss Richmond, organizing secretary of the union, who is unable, through bereavement in her family, to attend. I have also had teaching experience, having taught for about eight years under the Otago Education Board. 2. Will you state the matters you wish to bring before the Commission ?—I wish to speak about the financial position of the kindergarten movement. Our kindergartens have now been open for three years, a Government subsidy being paid to us on the average attendance. We think that that basis of payment is hardly fair, seeing that the children who attend the kindergartens are such babies that the weather and many other causes so seriously affect the attendance. There are none over five years of age, and on a wet or windy day such young children cannot leave their homes, so that it is hard that we should be judged in the same way as in the case of older children. Then children at that age are particularly affected by any epidemic that may have set in, and when any child is affected by such diseases the older children in the same house are debarred from attendance at the schools. These matters materially affect our attendance. In 1909 the subsidy we received from the Government was £115 10s. ; in 1910 it was £220 10s. ; and in 1911 £265 10s., making a total for the three years of £601 10s. During that time we have paid in salaries £1,302 17s. lid., and our expenses besides salaries have been £584 4s. We think the Government might help the institutions to a greater extent. We look upon the movement as a charity organization, and such organizations usually get a pound-for-pound subsidy—sometimes, I think, even more. Another point we wish to have considered by the Commission is the fact that we have a few children whose parents absolutely refuse to send them to the public schools when they come to the age of five. In order to avoid overlapping upon the public schools we have never taken scholars into the schools when they have been over five. 3. Mr. Davidson.] Do you know that parents are not compelled to send their children to the public schools till they are seven ? —Yes. It does not pay us to take them in, because w 7 e have very little room, and we get no subsidy upon children over five. 4. Do you ask that you be granted a subsidy upon them up to the age of seven ?—No, we do not wish that. We would be willing, if it w 7 ere allowed, to take in without subsidy a few children who we know are absolutely running on the streets and forgetting all that they have learned, but we are supposed to turn them off at the age of five. State-school teachers object to our having them, on the ground that we are interfering with the State schools ; but if they are not going to those schools they would be very much better with us. 5. Can you see any way of overcoming that difficulty ?—The only suggestion 1 can make is that we be allowed to take in those that we think are really being ruined. These are children whose mothers do not seem to care much whether they attend school or not.
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6. What do you suggest as a better basis of the Government subsidy than payment on average attendance ?—That we should be paid on the roll number. 7. Is not your present rate of subsidy pound for pound, not exceeding £2 per head ?—But it is paid on the average attendance, which we consider is not fair in the case of children so young. 8. Is not your total grant equal to the amount of voluntary contributions ?—ln the three years we had £601 10s. from the Government, and the total amount received from subscriptions and donations was £423 18s. 3d., and from entertainments £717 2s. 9d. 9- Your suggestion is that the subsidy from the State should be equivalent to the total amount raised by private subscriptions ?—Yes. 10. Do you not think it would be very much better if the State took over the kindergartens ?— We would be very pleased if it w 7 ould do so. That is what ought to be, I think—make it part of the State system of education. 11. It would not matter, then, at what age children went to the primary department ?—No. 12. Mr. Hogben,] Have you spent the whole of the £1,140 received from subscriptions, and donations, and voluntary contributions ? —No. We have some of it in the savings-bank. The amount at the end of December, 1911, was £91 17s. Id. 13. Did you spend all the rest in the same period that you received the £601 from the Government ?—We spent £1,302 17s. lid. in salaries alone. 14. Mr. Wells? What number of children have you ?—About two hundred, in four schools. That is the roll number. 15. And what is the average attendance ?—ln 1911 it was 133. .16. Mr. Hogben? It simply comes to this : that the deficiency in subsidy is due to the fact that we reckon upon the average attendance and not on the roll number ?—That is so. 17. What would you suggest that we should pay ?—We would be satisfied if we were paid according to the roll number. 18. But you might have a child come only once a quarter ?—He would not be kept on the roll for the whole quarter. 19. Mr. Davidson.] Suppose you were paid on every child on the roll to the amount of 70 per cent, of the total attendance ?—That would help. 20. Mr. Hogben.] It appears to cost you about £600 a year to carry on the schools ?—From £500 to £550. 21. The Chairman.] Do you think it desirable that the allowance for furniture should include school, requisites ?—1 think so —up to a certain point. One sum of £20 is all that we have had for furniture in three years. We got that when we opened one of the new schools. Constance Annie Freeman examined on oath. (No. 175.) 1. The Chairman.] Are you not headmistress of the Wellington Free Kindergartens ?—I was headmistress for a year and nine months, but I have resigned. Miss Richmond has asked me to speak on two points. One is the question of average attendance. With children of the class dealt with in the schools it is very difficult to get an average attendance, because epidemics run very quickly through the schools, and we are most particular in keeping away children from infected houses, otherwise we might often have the whole school down with mumps and measles. There is also difficulty about the weather. During the summer we usually get a good attendance, but last summer the weatherwas bad, and very often the children were unable to come out. There is rather a temptation to urge the parents to send the children on days when they would be better at home, because we know that when they are absent our subsidy is going down. When I was in Sydney I found that the managers of the kindergartens there are saved a good deal of anxiety on that score through the Government giving them a lump-s mi down. They run eight kindergartens in Sydney and one or two in Newcastle, and for these the Government gives them £1,000 a year, with no restrictions or conditions except that the schools shall be efficiently run. The Sydney education authorities are quite satisfied with Government inspection. It is difficult for those not concerned with the management of such schools to realize what the anxieties of the teachers are. Speaking for myself, I have been far more worried about the finances than about the education itself. Another difficulty is that when there are a great number of charitable appeals to the public we find it difficult to get people to maintain their subscriptions to our movement, so we are harried on that account too, and we as teachers have to devote a considerable amount of our time to getting up entertainments instead of giving all our time and energy to the children. As to furniture, we have always understood that we were only entitled to get with State aid such articles as tables and chairs. All books and the special kindergarten requisites we have provided ourselves. It will be a great help if it is possible for us to get kindergarten materials and, at any rate, some of the books with State assistance. The other point upon which I was asked to speak was that of the children over five years. There are two classes of these children—first, children over five who are either physically or mentally defective. They are not wanted in the State schools, and we have been allowed to keep them up to the age of seven. For these children we receive the Government grant as for other children. The other class is a set of children whom one could scarcely call defective, but who are delicate and often undersized. Their mothers object to sending them to the State schools, and in many cases the doctors have forbidden it. In these cases I have obtained a medical certificate that they are not fit for the State school, and we have taken them into the kindergarten and claimed the Government subsidy. There are also children who are delicate, yet not sufficiently so for doctors to feel warranted in saying that a State school would be injurious to them, but whose mothers will not send them to the State schools. We are not allowed to take them, and 1 have been taken to task two or three times on the subject, though we make no claim with respect to such children. We would like to get permission from the Government in special cases to take children
C. A. FREEMAN. 1
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over five where the parents refuse to send them to the State schools, and where we have already had the children in the kindergarten. It would only affect a very small number of children, because it really pays us better to have children under five, for whom we get the subsidy, but rather than let these children run wild we would like permission to keep them on. 2. Mr. Wells.] Do you train kindergarten students ?—We train teachers for our own schools. There are twelve at the present time. 3. What becomes of them after training ?—Some of them have remained with us, receiving a small salary. Most of them are so thoroughly interested in the work that we cannot get rid of them. Some start free kindergartens. One of my old students has just opened a kindergarten at Island Bay. Some take private posts as governesses. Two have gone into the State schools as pupil-teachers. 4. What is the course of training I—So1 —So far we have been able to give only one year. It should be at least two years, and, better still, three. They are instructed in the principles and work of the kindergarten, in handwork, kindergarten songs and games, general methods of education for infants, and nature knowledge —a good deal of that. The students do four hours' training a week. They also have the arrangement of schemes of work. 5. Is there no botany ?—That comes in under nature-study. There is no separate botany course. 6. You would take up psychology in a longer course ?—Decidedly. It is one of the most importantthings. 7. Do you get any subsidy for training students ?—None at all. 8. Mr. Kirk.] Have you heard any expressions of opinion from the State-school teachers who get children from the kindergartens as to the benefits derived from your work ?—As a rule they very much approve of it, especially those teachers who have any knowledge of the kindergarten themselves. 9. Mr. Davidson.] Have you any knowledge of the number of children in the New South Wales schools ? —I think they average about fifty per school on rolls. 10. Would not a State subsidy of pound for pound on what you spend meet your case ?—I believe that is what Miss Richmond would like. I personally would prefer to see a lump sum down, as in New South Wales, because then we would know exactly where we stood. 11. Mr. Hogben? Suppose you had a fixed sum, and you took the children over five whose mothers will not send them to the State schools, would you not practically be paid for those as well as the others ?—lt is much more convenient to our scheme of work to have children between three and five. The children over five are extra work, and need a little extra arrangement made for them. It gives us extra trouble. It is from pure philanthropy that we take them. 12. It would tempt you to count them in the number ?—We would not ask to be allowed to count them in the number if we had a lump-sum. An extra half-dozen of children over five would not make any difference to us. 13. How would the danger of the school closing be guarded against ?—We would still have to make periodical returns, and I presume that as long as the general average was kept up the Government would continue to make the grant, but if the average fell appreciably you would cut down the grant. 14. How 7 would it do to create kindergartens at some of the public schools, and allow so-many teachers for a given attendance ?—That might work, as long as it does not depend upon the attendance of the children. You cannot fix the payments on attendance in the case of kindergartens. 15. The Chairman.] Are you aware that an effort is being made to systematize the training of kindergarten teachers throughout the Dominion and bring them into line with the classes of the Froebel Institute of England ?—I think it is a most excellent idea, and it cannot be done too soon. Janet Alice Finlayson examined on oath. (No. 176.) 1. The Chairman.] What is your position ?—I am a teacher at the Island Bay School, and have been there for nearly six years. I have been teaching eighteen years, and have taught in schools in the Wellington, Canterbury, and Wanganui districts. I hold aCI certificate. The point the Council especially wish me to emphasize was the value of kindergarten training to the child on entering the State school. At the Island Bay School I receive children from the Richmond Free Kindergarten. These children have been at the kindergarten for varying periods—from a few months to a year or more. At the beginning of 1911 I admitted about thirty or forty new pupils who had never been at a State school before. Of these fifteen had come from the Richmond Free Kindergarten, and the other fifteen had come straight from their homes. I noticed a marked difference in the children from the kindergarten in comparison with the children straight from home, so much so that I was able to promote them in a very few weeks to a class above the other children. The Council wish me as an infant-teacher in a State school to emphasize the importance of the kindergarten training as given in the Richmond F.iee Kindergarten School to the child as a preparation for the work of the infant school.
Wellington, Wednesday, 10th July, 1912. Henry Ainslie Parkinson examined on oath. (No. 177.) 1. The Chairman.] What is your position ? —I am headmaster of the Newtown School and secretary of the New Zealand Educational Institute. lam an M.A. of the New Zealand University, and I hold a Bl certificate. 2. Have you any statement to make as to the subject-matter of our inquiry ?—Yes, and knowing you have had a good deal of this matter before you I have condensed as much as possible the views I wish to present to you. Several witnesses have brought before the Commission a suggestion for the establishment of a Council of Education. As the president of the New Zealand Educational Institute
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set out in his evidence, the Council that is desired is a body that shall be representative of the best opinion in the various departments of educational work. Without taking up the time of the Commission with an elaboration of all the details proposed to be met by the instituting of such a Council, I would emphasize the fact that it would meet three of the principal needs of the teaching profession ----viz., a settled scheme of promotion, a more uniform interpretation of the syllabus, and. somethingapproaching a standard of value in the results of inspection. At present there is no standard, each district being a law unto itself. Incidentally, the worst of the bugbears of the teacher's life would be removed —that is, the need for canvassing for promotion. Two other points cannot be too often reiterated —first, the enormous saving that would be made in administrative expenditure; and, second, the benefit that would accrue from having the power of direction placed in the hands of real experts in education instead of in those of Boards whose members are rarely experts. For the purpose of local administration there has been outlined a scheme for the creation of District Boards holding a midway position between those of the present Boards and Committees. I venture to offer as an alternative suggestion that use should be made of the County and Borough Councils. These bodies, with their efficient organization, by calling to their assistance some of the residents in the various school districts, could provide all the local supervision that is necessary, and at the same time keep alive the local interest that affords one of the principal grounds for the maintenance of the present system. There seems no good reason, also, why more use should not be made of the teachers in making provision for school-cleaning, providing school requisites, and in other small matters of detail. Syllabus : Many criticisms have been levelled at the syllabus, and it may be admitted that there are details in which it might be improved ; but I wish to point out that the annual meetings of the New Zealand Educational Institute have shown that, except in minor details, the teachers of the Dominion are satisfied that the syllabus is a good one, and is producing good results. My purpose in referring to the subject is to express the hope on behalf of teachers that any revision may not be allowed to take the form of a reversion to the conditions of the time before its introduction. The complaint is made against the syllabus that pupils cannot write so good a letter in so good a hand as formerly, and that they cannot add up a sum so well. Probably in the case of the sum and the writing this is partly correct, but allowance has to be made for the lower age of the pupils who are brought into the comparison at the present time. In regard to the composition I think the complaint is quite unfounded. Speaking generally, I think it should be emphasized, in reply to complaints of this kind, that the purpose of the syllabus is not to turn out clerks, or carpenters, or cowboys, but future citizens of New Zealand. This important fact is often lost sight of, except in the schools themselves, which have all their aims and objects dominated by that fundamental consideration. And it cannot be denied that, making full allowance for minor faults,.the syllabus does tend strongly in that direction. There is certainly a wider outlook and a more alert general intelligence in evidence among the pupils than was apparent twenty or more years ago, and I believe that it must be admitted that the general tone and character of schoollife is steadily improving. This improvement is due jointly to the influence of the syllabus and to a higher appreciation of his duties, opportunities, and responsibilities on the part of the teacher, and to the syllabus is due the liberty the teacher now enjoys of bringing that appreciation to bear on his work. Capitation for manual and technical work : I have so far spoken in my official capacity as representing the Institute. I have no such authority for what follows. I desire to bring under your notice the system of paying by capitation for manual and technical subjects, including handwork. Handwork is now a recognized part of school-work, and seeing that it has taken its place as a full member of the family of school subjects there seems no reason why it should any longer be made the subject of special per capita payments. Ample experience has been gained to enable the authorities to make a fair estimate of the cost of the subject, and I would submit that the special payments should cease. lam led to this conclusion by several considerations. First, the subject itself now exhibits no practical need for special treatment, except perhaps in two or three of the more purely technical sections. Second, the fact that there is a special payment based on a special return tends to a distorted view of the true place and purpose of handwork in the curriculum. Third, the fact that there is a special register, with special payment, for part of this group of subjects robs teachers of their proper freedom in handling it —that is to say, from being a section of work specially adaptable for correlation with other subjects it has taken on itself an undue precedence over the others, to the injury of them and of itself. Finally, the payment of the capitation on returns sent in rather than on work produced for inspection has a tendency to evoke an undue eagerness in the pursuit of capitation. The Commission has already had evidence of the shifts to which controlling authorities are put to obtain capitation with which to pay the salaries of special instructors. It should be the aim of the directors of educational policy to reduce as far as possible, and finally dispense with altogether, the use of itinerant instructors. Their work can never have the highest educational value, by reason of the lack of intimate personal touch between them and their pupils, and dependence on their services leads to much confusion and hindrance of ordinary school-w 7 ork through the necessity of making arrangements to suit their requirements as to time and the size of classes. Furthermore, the benefits of correlation between the manual and the ordinary subjects are to a large extent lost, since under present conditions the two sides of the pupils' work follow different programmes and are under the care of different teachers. 3. Mr. Wells.] I think you have a fairly intimate knowledge of the recommendations handed in on the subject of salaries ?—Yes. 4. Has the Institute made any calculation as to the increased cost involved in your recommendations ?—No. 5. With regard to the comparisons made and handed in yesterday between the salaries of teachers and the salaries paid in other Departments, do you know the proportion of women to men in the teaching profession ?—I think, speaking roughly, women are 1| to 1. I may say the
H. A. PABKINSON.]
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Postal Department promises to all lads of satisfactory diligence and conduct that they may attain to a salary of £220 a year by the time they are twenty-eight years of age, or two years earlier if they pass the Junior Civil Service Examination. I have inquired from every Education Board in New Zealand how many male teachers, being not over twenty-eight years of age, are in receipt of salaries of £200 a- year or more, and I find the answer is a total of thirty-four. 6. Do you know the number of women employed in the Railway service ?—ln the branch of the Railway service quoted there, probably none. I did not consider the difference of sex in the profession at all. Our profession does not acknowledge any difference in sex. It pays a position irrespective of whether it is filled by a man or woman. 7. But are the sex equally distributed through the positions from the lowest to the highest ? —ln theory they may be, but in practice they are not —that is to say, there is no sex reason why they should not be. 8. Is it not a fact that comparatively few of the higher positions are filled by women ? — Exactly so. 9. Do you not think that that fact enters into consideration at all ?—I think it is a very important fact. I think it is a fact that shows the public does not want education to fall into the hands of women ; that it wants men in the teaching service. 10. But do you not think it affects the fairness of your comparison ?—No. 11. Here is the Railway service, in which, roughly speaking, all are men, and here is the Education service, in which the majority of the lower-paid positions are filled by women and the higher-paid positions by men ?—For my purpose all the positions are filled by teachers. 12. The Chairman.] You think the rule "equal pay for equal work" should be applied, and the positions should be open to either sex ? —Nominally it is so, and I am concerned with the facts of the case as they stand. Perhaps lam anticipating what Mr. Wells may say later, but it seems to me this is a question of whether the State or the community is prepared to hand over the teaching service to women. Undoubtedly, if the present scale of salaries is not increased it will fall more and more into the hands of women. Women can live on the present scale, and so can men, but men can get much better salaries elsewhere. 13. Do you think that men and women should be paid equally ? —I do not think it is my business to advocate that at all. 14. I want your opinion ?—lf you ask me my opinion as a citizen, I say No. You see, I am somewhat in an official capacity when appearing here as a teacher. 15. Mr. Wells?] Again, in the Postal service, I think you made comparison with the cadettes in the Telephone Exchange ?—There is a note setting out the salaries received by women teachers and cadettes. 16. Do you know what the maximum is to which a woman can work up ?—Under the name of " cadette " she can rise to £100, and she stays there ; but if she becomes a supervisor she may go up to £180. 17. Do you know how many supervisors there are ?—I think there is a far bigger proportion of supervisors to the number of cadettes than there are infant-mistresses to the number of teachers. 18. Do you know to what salaries women teachers can aspire ?—Yes, they may aspire to the limit of £400. 19. In actual practice ?—I think thirty-three receive salaries of £200 or more. Of these four are not under the scale, but hold special appointments in the normal schools. 20. Then the teaching profession at present offers far greater opportunities to women than does the Postal service I —As to the ultimate goal, probably yes ; but there is this much about it, that a woman to get these places has to stand competition with the pick of her sex in the teaching profession, but in the telephone service she has no competition at all and no risks of transfer or dismissal. 21. Is there no competition in the Government service ?—She rises automatically to £100. There may be some degree of competition of one kind or another in the selection of supervisors, but of that I cannot say. 22. Do you think it is fair to take any account of holidays ?—lt cuts both ways. It is one of the attractions of the service to the younger teachers. It is one of the detriments to a good many who are not so young —that is to say, the holidays are rather expensive. But in any case the holidays are not given for the benefit of the teachers', but for the benefit of the work. 23. Supposing we had a grading scheme in operation, and men and women teachers were graded by the Inspectors according to merit, would you be prepared to say that all vacancies should be filled in order of merit from the graded list irrespective of sex ?—As long as there is acknowledged equality of sex in the scale as at present I should say Yes. 24. Do you care to make any remarks on the question of Cadets ?—Yes, I am very glad to have the opportunity. I may say I am speaking personally ; I have no mandate from the Institute. I quite approve of the scheme that was announced the other day by General Godley—-that is to say, that the military training side of the Junior Cadets should be considered or perhaps altogether abolished; that they should be confined to drill and physical culture, and probably shooting. When I speak of drill I speak of military drill as opposed to military training. Military drill is only the beginning of military training. I think that to talk of training soldiers at fourteen years of age is not wise. I believe in maintaining drill because it is good, morally and physically. I believe also that the shooting should be continued if teachers are given freedom to omit any boys whose eyesight seems to indicate that they should be omitted. Again, I think there should be no annual class firing for every cadet to go through, but that teachers should be encouraged to take shooting as an outdoor game. We hear much these days of organized games. Cricket and football develop co-ordination and the subordination of self to the team. As a counterpoise to that I think there is hardly anything better to develop self-
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reliance, independent judgment, and individual responsibility than shooting, where a boy has to take the utmost care with his last shot as well as with his first, and where the bullet never learns the way along the track because there is only one way it has to go. I like shooting very much, but I have begun to doubt the suitability of many boys for it. I have done a great deal of it, and I have been finding that the eyesight of many boys is not sufficiently developed to make shooting wise for them. 25. Do you think the cadets should be under the control of the Education Department ?—I think all school-work should be under the control of the Education Department. 26. With regard to cadets and scouts, do you think there should be any choice allowed to boys as to whether they should belong to one or the other ?—No. I do not think the option should be allowed to boys. If there is to be an option I think it should be allowed to the teacher as to which line ought to be followed. 27. The Chairman?] The scout movement is not a part of the school-work ? —There is some mention of it by General Godley showing a trend in that direction. 28. Mr. Wells.] You made mention of a proposed Council of Education : how would the Inspectorate stand in regard to that Council ? —My opinion is strongly in the direction that the Council should control the Inspectorate of the Dominion. I think the Council should be the controlling body generally, both of Inspectors and teachers. 29. Are you answering that from the point of view of doing away with Education Boards, as you suggest ?—Yes. 30. Supposing that Education Boards were not done away with, but that the districts were rearranged so that we had five or six Education Boards in the Dominion, would that make any difference ?—I should say that five or six Boards would have such a wide field to cover that the members, being ordinary business men, and only meeting periodically to deal with the Board's affairs, would hardly have sufficient knowledge of teachers to make the appointments wisely unless they were bound down to the promotion scheme, which is the ideal in front of teachers. 31. You would still place Inspectors under the Council of Education?— Yes. Even now, if I had the power, I would place them under the Minister to-morrow. 32. You have a fairly wide knowledge of this education district: do you think consolidation of country schools might be carried out to any great extent in it ?—Yes, in a good many places. I would favour that, and especially would I favour it for the future—that is to say, I would prevent any further multiplication of small schools. 33. Mr. Kirk.} Do you think, in the event of the teaching profession being paid on the basis of, say, the Railway Department or some of these other Government Departments, that there is a possibility of these other branches of the Public Service demanding from the Government the term and summer vacation holidays that the teachers enjoy ?—lt is hard to speak for another Department. I have not considered that possibility. The reply is that they have their holiday. -It is not so extensive as ours, it is true, but there are no children to be considered in the other Departments. And some of them would not like our hours of work either. 34. Mr. Davidson.] Have you studied the scale of staffing and salaries in operation in other countries ?—I do not care to say I have studied them, but I have before me the scale in Victoria and a very roughly-made abstract of the scale of New South Wales. 35. Are men and women paid alike in these States ? —No. 36. There is a separate scale of salaries for men and women ?—Yes, both in Victoria and New South Wales. 37. Did I understand that personally you approve of that system of differentiation of salaries so far as the sex is concerned ?—Yes. 38. I think you stated you did not know the amount required to bring the salaries of teachers in New Zealand up to the rates suggested in the paper referred to by Mr. Wells ?—No. 39. If the initial cost amounted to over £71,000, do you think the country would agree to this increased salary bill ?—That is a hard question. You ask what one thinks. I think it would if the case were properly placed before it. The country last year agreed practically without comment to an increase of £112,000 to the Railway service, and it is already considering a further one this year. 40. And if the total cost were double that, what do you say ?—I have no information to give as to details. Our business was to show that compared with other branches of the service the teaching service is not paid as it ought to be paid. 41. Have you compared the salaries of teachers in New Zealand with the salaries paid to teachers in other parts of the British Empire ?—The only figures I have are these here. I have a kind of general knowledge that in London they are higher than ours, but I cannot quote figures. 42. If you were told the initial cost would be £71,000, and the total cost of the increase would be £142,000, do you think the country would stand that increase in the total cost of education ?— I think it would if the case were clearly put before the country. 43. The Chairman.] Have you forgotten that the Railway service earned the money ?—I do not forget the opinions expressed by the leaders of this community—members of Parliament and newspaper editors. They tell us that the teachers are earning rewards that cannot be measured in pounds by the valuable work they are doing for the State. 44. Mr. Davidson.] You appreciate the difference between a revenue-producing Department and a non-revenue-producing Department ?—I do not think lam called upon to do so. 45. Has the New Zealand Educational Institute considered this subject ?—The executive has, by letter. There was no Royal Commission in existence'when the last annual meeting took place.lj 46. Was Mr. Webb authorized by the executive tofpresent the salary question in that form ?— I was authorized to present it, but seeing that the Wellington Branch had a committee at work on the question I handed my figures to them to bring before you.
H. A. PARKINSON.!
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47. And you take the responsibility for the paper read by Mr. Webb ?—Yes, all but the first sheet of it. 48. And you claim you are authorized by the executive of the Institute ?—Yes. F3 49. But the Institute as a whole never had the matter under consideration ? —That is so. W 50. What is your opinion as to the present method of electing Education Boards ?—I may say I am not in favour of the proposal to introduce the parliamentary franchise into the elections. So long as the present districts exist I think election by members of Committees is better than election by parliamentary franchise. 51. Do you know what percentage of householders record their votes at the election of Committees ?—I do not know. I know it is quite a small one; but may I add we also know that the percentage of electors who record their votes for members of City Councils and Hospital Boards is a very small one. 52. Would you be surprised to learn that in many districts the percentage of householders voting is not greater than 20 per cent., and is as low as 10 per cent. ? —I should say, lower than that sometimes. 53. Do you think that members of Education Boards who are elected by School Committees really represent the general community ?—Yes, because you must take it this way : if people are not sufficiently interested to exercise their civic duties they are not much interested in the results. 54. What have you to say about the abolition of pupil-teachers ?—Like other teachers I am hoping to see the end of them, but until the end does come I think the present system wants amending. 1 think we should not have pupil-teachers for two years only. The pupil-teacher for two years is a very grave hindrance to the school. I think also a better way of recompensing matriculation passes should be devised than cutting the service in half —that is to say, those who enter with a matriculation pass should get an advanced salary and still be kept on for the four years of training. The value to the school and State would be largely increased in that way. 55. You know that probationers are allotted on the basis of two for every 1,200 in average attendance in a district: do you think that will be sufficient to supply students for our training colleges when pupil-teachers are completely abolished ? —No ; I have not gone into the figures. 56. Would you approve of probationers being appointed to schools of, say, Grade 3 or Grade 4 when the average attendance reaches forty ?—I should rather say that the appointment of probationers should not depend on grade at all, but upon the quality of the school —that is to say, I think there are probably some Grade 4 schools where it would not be advantageous to send a probationer, and there are some Grade 3 schools where it would be a very good thing to do so. 57. Providing that the teacher were competent, do you think that the placing of probationers in Grade 3 or Grade 4 schools would provide opportunities for country children entering the teaching profession ?—I should say it undoubtedly would. 58. Mr. Pirani.] Are you aware that Education Boards will not allow the employment of pupilteachers after their term is over ?—Yes. 59. Do you not think that a pupil-teacher who has matriculated and wants to continue at the same salary should be allowed to do so ?—I do. There are pupil-teachers who have finished their term, and who rather than go away from home would prefer to continue on even at £70, but they are not allowed to do so under present conditions. It would be a gain to the school and a satisfaction to these teachers if they were. I would certainly say, of course, that they would have to be qualified. 60. There is no objection to employing them at £90, even if they are not certificated ?—That is so. 61. Mr. Hogben.] If these pupil-teachers were employed to do the work of assistants on the pay of a pupil-teacher would that not be introducing sweating ?—I think not, unless it became widely introduced. My idea was to meet a few special cases, probably one or two in a district. 62. Would the master of the school not be free to put them on to the work of junior assistants ? —If he was a wise master he would put them to the work they are most competent to do. 63. They might do the same work as junior assistants ?—Yes. 64. What is the lowest salary a junior assistant gets ?—£9o. 65. Would you pay them £90 ?—I am not charged with the drawing-u-p of salaries. 66. Does the scale provide a payment of £90 to a pupil-teacher ?—No, £55 is the limit at present. 67. If you put them to do the same w 7 ork as junior assistants they would have to be paid less : is not that so ?—Yes. 68. Mr. Pirani.] If a pupil-teacher's time had expired in a school, and that school was entitled still to a pupil-teacher, would it be displacing assistants if an ex-pupil-teacher was allowed to continue as a pupil-teacher ?—No, assuming that there is no assistant provided for in the school's grade. 69. And if the regulations provided that a pupil-teacher only put in four hours' teaching a day, would that be also displacing an assistant ?—No. 70. If Education Boards were elected on a wider franchise is it not reasonable to suppose that there would be a greater interest taken in the elections ?—lf you have the elections on the same day as the general election undoubtedly there would be wider interest taken. Edward Stace Hylton examined on oath. (No. 178.) 1. The Chairman.] What is your position ? —I am Secretary of the Marlborough Education Board, and have been so for the last five years. Prior to that I was for ten years in the office of the Wellington Education Board. 2. Will you kindly read the statement you have prepared on behalf of your Board ?—Amalgamation of education districts : In connection with the suggested amalgamation of certain districts, including Marlborough, I have to say that the position of Marlborough is a difficult one, especially when one considers the great number of aided schools that the Marlborough Board is called upon to
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maintain in such places as the French Pass, Queen Charlotte, Pelorus, and Kenepuru Sounds. In these parts of the district practically the only means of communication is by water, and there is ■therefore no chance of establishing central schools to which children within a reasonable radius could be conveyed. To add to our difficulties, the very small salaries allotted to the teachers of these schools are responsible for many changes ; and, owing to the uncertainty in the matter of the salaries of "teachers of schools in Grade 0, which are raised or lowered from year to year and quarter to quarter, the teachers are continually seeking positions in schools which, at the time of their application, happen to have perhaps only one or two more pupils than they are then teaching, but which would mean to them an increase of 10s. or £1 per month. As a result of all this changing it is found that the Board has to spend as much of its time on one of these Sounds schools as it does on one of the largest schools in the district. In the matter of administration it is not the number of children attending a school which counts, but the number of schools to be controlled. At the present time we have ninetytwo schools in operation, and there are practically no schools which could be centralized satisfactorily. A good deal of settlement is proceeding, and it will not be long before this Board has to control over a hundred schools. I may add it is the general opinion in Marlborough that the cause of education can be best served by allowing the district to remain as at present. In my opinion the education district should be extended so as to take in Kaikoura, which is in the Marlborough Land District. Teachers' salaries : It appears to me that sufficient inducements to join the teacher's profession are not offered. I consider that a pupil-teacher or probationer should commence at £40 per annum, and increase by annual increments of £10. The lodging-allowance to those obliged to live away from home should be not less than £25 in any year. At the present time pupil-teachers w 7 ho have to live away from home are treated most unfairly in the matter of lodging-allowance—having £5 deducted in each succeeding year of service, and thus reducing the annual increment from £10 to £5, whereas the pupil-teacher who lives at home receives the £10 increment in full. In order to prevent the constant changing of teachers in Grade 0 schools, of which Marlborough has a large proportion, there should be a minimum salary of not less than £40, with annual increments of £5 up to £60. I have fixed upon a low maximum because the teachers in these schools are, with a few exceptions, uncertificated, and that in all cases free board and lodging is provided by the householders. Grants for administration : In my opinion the grants for administration purposes should be based on the number of schools in each district, instead of on the number of children in average attendance. As pointed out earlier, it is the number of schools which counts and not the attendance. For instance, one school might have only ten pupils in average attendance, yet it takes up just as much of the Board's time as the school having an attendance of a hundred. Grants for buildings : Full particulars should be given of the grants for maintenance of school buildings, so as to show exactly the amount allotted for general upkeep and rebuilding respectively. In connection with the purchase of new sites the Government should pay Education Boards the full cost, including legal expenses, or undertake to secure the sites at their own valuation. In connection with special grants for the erection of new schools, teachers' residences, and additions to buildings, I think the Government should agree to vote an amount equal to the low 7 est tender, plus architect's expenses. Manual and technical ■ —Handwork: In connection with handwork classes there is a continual protest against the multifarious forms to be filled in before the small amounts available in capitation may be claimed. It would be far better to have all branches of handwork reckoned as a part of the ordinary school-work. If the Government were to pay over a lump-sum for the maintenance of handwork classes the Boards could undertake the supply of material for the classes, and their Inspectors would see that value was being obtained for the money spent, as is being done at present. If this reform were adopted it would result in a considerable saving to the Government and the Education Boards. In order to earn sufficient capitation to provide for the upkeep of the primary-school classes in woodwork and cookery at the Blenheim Technical School, the Marlborough Board has had to bring in Convent pupils and Marlborough High School pupils. Primary-school pupils from Picton (eighteen miles), Koromiko, and Tuamarina are brought in by rail, and from Renwick and Grovetown by drag on fifteen days each year, and four hours are devoted to instruction. As the ordinary school day is five hours, I would recommend that in the case of those pupils who have to spend the day in Blenheim this number of hours be devoted to instruction, thereby saving three days' travelling and the accompanying expense of conveyance. 3. Mr. Wells.] How many schools are there in your district ?—Ninety-two at the end of the present quarter. 4. How many are there in Grade 10 ? —None ; nor are there any in Grade 9. The highest school is in Grade 8. 5. The teachers in your schools, no matter what their merit, have absolutely no chance of getting into the highest grade ? —Not in our district; but there is nothing to prevent them getting into other districts. 6. Will there not be a tendency for the best men to try and move from the district ?—Yes. 7. From that point of view would it not be better that the district should be extended in order that there may be some prizes to which the teachers could look forward ?—I do not see how they would benefit; the teacher would be taken to some other school. 8. Is it easy for your teachers to obtain employment in larger districts ?—I could not say. Most of them seem to be satisfied. Ido not know that a great many of them are applying for appointments 'elsewhere. Very few have left the district since I was there. 9. Do you not know that there is some little difficulty in the matter of teachers in one district getting positions in another ?■ —I have heard of no difficulties. We make no objection to their coming to us.
E. S. HYLTON.
571
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10. What is the system of promotion in your district ? —We have no fixed system. When a vacancy occurs it is advertised, and we generally send on to the School Committee all the names of the qualified applicants, and leave it to the Committee to make a selection. 11. As many as half a dozen names ?—lf half a dozen were qualified they would go on. 12. Are they placed in order of merit ? —Yes, by the Board's Inspector, and confirmed by the Board before being sent on. 13. Have you ever known the Committee to choose other than the top name ? —Yes. 14. Have you ever known them to choose the bottom name ? —No. 15. Do you think that a good system ?—Speaking personally, Ido not. I think that the Board's Inspectors are the best able to judge. 16. Do you think that teachers might be graded by the Board's Inspectors, and that in case of a vacancy the top name only be sent to the Committee ?—I think so. 17. Are not the number of small schools in your district a serious drain on the Board's finances ? —They are. With regard to the schools I particularly mentioned —those in the Sounds —very few of them are in Board buildings. They are mostly settlers' houses. 18. Is not the proportion of very small schools in your district exceptionally large ? —That is so. 19. If there was amalgamation of districts would not the burden of administrative expense be more equitably distributed ?—lt depends on whom the district was amalgamated with. Marlborough would be a serious burden whatever happened. Our geographical position is a peculiar one. 20. What is the distance from Wellington, by time ? —Four hours; eight hours from Nelson. 21. Have you anything in the way of technical education ?—Practically none at all. We have endeavoured at different times to start it, but we have not been successful. Of course, we train our teachers out of the funds provided by the Department. It may be mentioned that in Marlborough, of those successful in gaining the proficiency certificate the proportion that proceeds to Marlborough High School seems to be above the average of corresponding places in the Dominion, and as the High School has modernized its programme by the formation of classes in Woodwork, cookery, physical measurement, and agriculture, not to mention other classes in pure science, mathematics, and modern languages, it appears that this school also serves the purpose of a technical high school. Further, the technical education thus supplied appears to be quite as sound and extensive as that supplied in any other similar centre in the Dominion. The High School apparently supplies the local need in this respect, as indicated by the poor support of evening classes. 22. Have you any district high schools ?—No. 23. Are the majority of your schools built of wood ?—With one exception they all are. 24. Do you set aside an amount annually for rebuilding ?—We set aside no particular amount, but we bear in mind that we have to do rebuilding, and we are doing it. 25. Have you any difficulty in getting a supply of teachers ? —We have had no great difficulty. 26. What is the proportion of uncertificated teachers in your Board's employ ?—I should say there are two uncertificated to one certificated. The large proportion of our schools is in Grade 0, and with one or two exceptions they are all uncertificated. 27. What is the proportion of girls to boys offering ? —At least 3 to 1, I should say. 28. Do you think the service is sufficiently attractive for men ?—I do not. 29. Mr. Davidson.] Have you heard that the teachers in these Grade 0 schools have to perform the duties of domestic servants in addition to their teaching-work ?—ln one or two isolated instances I have known of such, but the Board after hearing of it issued instructions that the teachers were not to be expected to do household duties. 30. Have any of your teachers found it easy to get good positions in other districts ?—lf they have been applicants I suppose they have found it difficult. 31. With regard to the £250 grant which is allowed to each Board, how does that work out per head with you on the average attendance ?—About Is. 6d. 32. How would it work out per head in the Auckland District ?—Probably about Id. 33. Are you not very much better off so far as that grant of £250 is concerned ?—lf you consider £250 will go a long way. Ido not. 34. Mr. Hogben.] With regard to the boarding-allowance of pupil-teachers, do you not think that as a child gets older the parents naturally look to him to maintain himself to some extent, and that therefore there should be less difference between the allowance made to him and the allowance made to those living away from home ?—Yes ; but you must remember that the boardinghousekeeper will expect the pupil-teacher with an increased salary also to pay something more for board. In all other professions the pay of the clerk or cadet is increased annually. 35. Is it called a lodging-allowance in the Act ?—I understand it is. It appears to me that the one who lives at home is better off. James Haughey examined on oath. (No. 179.) 1. The Chairman] What is your position ?—I am headmaster of the Koromiko School, Marlborough. I have been so employed for four years and nine months. Previously to that I was under the Wellington Board, and I was also under the Hawke's Bay Board for eight years. lam classified Dl. 2. You represent the Marlborough Branch of the New Zealand Educational Institute ?—Yes. 3. You have a statement: will you kindly read it ?—The Marlborough District Institute wishes to place before you the following evidence on the educational condition of this country. The syllabus : Arithmetic—My Institute is of opinion that there is a marked discrepancy between the work of Standards 111 and IV. Part of the work now done in Standard IV could be done in Standard 111. In Standard V too much is asked. As there is little likelihood of the metric system being brought into use for many years, it could well be dispensed with. English—The syllabus in English is not definite
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572
[S. HATJGHEY.
enough ; more attention to the essentials of formal grammar is desirable. Writing—lnfants should not be expected to use pens or pencils and paper, and the use of chalk and blackboards should be encouraged. Geography—The'work expected in mathematical geography is too extensive and should be curtailed. History—ln this subject the syllabus should be entirely reconstructed. The scrappy way history is now taught is very unsatisfactory. It is, in fact, the most neglected subject in our curriculum. Manual and technical —Too much time is taken up by manual and technical subjects. This time could well be spent in the study of our mother-tongue. Religious instruction—All religious instruction should be given outside of school-hours. In Marlborough thirty minutes per week is beingtaken out of school-time for the purpose of religious instruction. General —Transfer of teachers from one school to another : After having held a position for three years a teacher should not be expected to pay his own moving-expenses. Other Civil servants are moved at the country's expense, and it is only just that the teacher should receive the same treatment. Salaries—At present every teacher in New Zealand is liable to a decrease in salary. This should not be ; and this Institute is strongly of opinion that no teacher should suffer a reduction in salary while remaining in the same position. This is, of course, provided the teacher does not refuse a transfer which would prevent a reduction. The teaching profession is the worst-paid service in New Zealand. In Grade 0 a teacher may now receive only 10s. a month. The maximum salary is £48 per year. The minimum should be at least £40, and this should be increased by yearly increments to £60. In Grade 1 a minimum of £120, maximum £150, should be given. The minimum is now £90, maximum £120. In the case of uncertificated teachers a maximum of £120 should be allowed. All pupil-teachers should be replaced by assistants. This would mean the total abolition of the pupil-teacher system. If it were retained, however, much more attractive inducements should be offered to encourage young people to enter the service. The scale of salaries will not bear comparison with the scales of other salaries in the New Zealand Civil Service, as per accompanying comparisons : (1.) Civil Service ; (2) minimum salaries ; (3) salaries of juniors : —
A Comparison of some Scales of Salaries.
Some Minimum Salaries. Public Works Department (non-clerical). —Overseers, Ist Grade, £240 ; 2nd Grade, £210 I 3rd Grade, £180 ; 4th Grade, £150. Carpenter, Ist Grade, £175 ; 2nd Grade, £166. Electrician, £185. Storeman, £125. Teacher, £90.
Salaries of Juniors.
Some Miscellaneous Comparisons. Bank of New Zealand : Most branch managers receive up to £500 per annum. Teachers : Maximum salary £400, reached only after six years in appointment, and only thirty such appointments in the Dominion. Average Salaries. —Railway Department: Engine-drivers, £171 12s. to £195 ; firemen, £132 12s. to £148 4s. ; carpenters, £148 4s. to £195. (To these have to be added the increases granted in 1911.) Police : Sergeants, £218 Bs. to £254 145.; detectives, £273 to £300 6s. (chief) ; constables, £142 12s. to £191 2s. Miners (Waihi award), minimum, £171 12s. Telegraphists, average, £183 12s. Teachers, average, £134 Bs. Bd.; omitting pupil-teachers, £155 9s. Id.
., , . Number of Jn umber oi Officers in Department. £m £30() _ 1,874 781 107 (41 per cent.) 3,804 922 108 (24 per cent.) 243 105 45 (43 per cent.) (approx.) 4,408 617 10 ■ (14 per cent.) Officers receiving Department. Railways (1st Division) 1 • £400. £500. i 30 13 46 24 £600. 3 Post Office (clerical) Public Works (Division II) 10 2 (approx.) (approx.) 7 Teachers
First Year. Second Year. Third Year. Fourth Year. Fifth Year. Sixth Year. Cadets — Railways Post Office Recommended by Classification Board for Civil Service £ s. 65 0 "" 40 0 40 0 £ 80 50 55 s. 0 0 0 £ s. 95 0 60 0 70 0 £ 110 70 80 s. 0 0 0 £ s. 80 0 115 0 £ s. 90 0 £15 increments up to £160. 135 0 Bank of New Zealand Youths in mines (Waihi award) .. Pupil-teachers .. .. Probationers .. .. 50 0 62 8 25 0 20 0 60 78 35 25 0 0 0 0 85 0 93 12 45 0 100 109 55 0 4 0 120 0 124 16
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J. HAUGHEY.
Ships' Officers. (With free living.)
Teachers.
Increments. Post-office cadets, £15 annually ; letter-carriers, £10 ; telegraph messengers, £9 ; Civil Service cadets (recommended by Board), £15 ; teachers, £5. Some Additional Notes. 1. Telegraph messengers (first year £31, second year £40) joining at fifteen may reach £220 at twentyeight years of age without competition for appointment (see note 7 below). 2. Telephone cadettes (£4O first year, with £10 increase yearly up to £100) : No qualifying examination necessary, no competition for promotion, and no liability to transfer. 3. Pupil-teachers (£25, £35, £45, £55, £55) : Dismissed on failing to pass examination ; no guarantee of employment. 4. Women teachers : Average salary of adults, £123 Is. lOd. ; average salary of pupil-teachers, £44 13s. 2d.; average salary of all, £108 4s. 9d. 5. Defence officers : Junior lieutenant, £140 ; senior lieutenant, £250 to £300 ; captain, £350 to £400. 6. District high school assistants : Minimum, £135 ; maximum, £270 ; average, £173. 7. Teachers : £200 —Only one teacher in seven can reach £200 a year, and he may have to hold the same appointment four years to get it. £300 —Only one teacher in twenty-three can receive £300 a year, and he may have to hold his appointment seven years before he reaches it. £400 — Only one teacher in 147 can receive £400 a year, and he must hold the maximum appointment for six years before reaching that figure —the maximum in the service. 8. Reduction in salary : If a school falls in grade the salary of the.head teacher is reduced £30 after two years, and that of the assistants £15 or £30. Miscellaneous comparisons : Average salaries —Increments: It is worthy of notice that whereas Post Office cadets receive an annual increment of £15, letter-carriers £10, telegraph messengers £9, Civil Service cadets £15, teachers receive only £5. A further point worth noting is as follows : Only one teacher in seven can reach £200, and this can only be obtained by holding same position four years. Only one teacher in twenty-three can receive £300 a year, and this can only be obtained by holding the same position seven years. Only one teacher in 147 can receive £400 a year, and he must hold the (maximum) appointment for six years to obtain this. The grant for free books should be done away with. The money would be much better spent on stationery, &c. In Marlborough small schools could not very well be grouped, owing to the nature of the country. There is no need to import teachers. If the salaries were increased to make the profession more enticing there should be ample entrants into the profession from the young people of our own country. This Institute is of opinion that instead of lowering the school-age in primary schools endeavours should be made to increase it. At present most children leave the primary school under fourteen years of age. Only a small proportion pass to the secondary schools. The remainder then finish their education under fourteen years of age. To prevent this undesirable state of affairs it would be advisable to take four years over the work done in Standards IV, V, and VI. This would make for increased efficiency in both the pupil who finished with the primary school and the one who passed to secondary schools.
Ship of Captain. 1st Officer. 2nd Officer. 3rd Officer. 4th Officer. Tons. 4,000 .. 3,000 .. 2,000 .. 1,000 .. Under 1,000 £ 516 444 396 348 312 £ 240 228 216 204 102 £ £ 204 168 192 156 180 144 168 144 156 132 £ 120 120 120 120 120
School. Head Teacher. ssistan ;s. Grade X (600) Min. Max. Grade VIIIc (400) Min. Max. Grade VIIa (200) Min. Max. Grade V (100) Min. Max. £ 370 400 310 340 270 290 210 240 £ 270 290 210 240 180 210 105 135 £ 210 240 150 180 135 150 £ £ 180 j 165 210 ' 180 135 120 150 . 135 105 .. 135 £ 150 165 90 105 £ 150 165 90 105 £ 120 135 £ 120 135 £ 90 105
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574
[j. HAUGHET.
4. Mr. Wells.] Is it the opinion of your Institute that there are a sufficient number of prizes in your district at present to which teachers can look forward ?—No. 5. Do you think it would be an improvement if there were a rearrangement of the districts so that there should be a fair number of what may be called prizes in each district ? —That is the opinion held by the majority of the members in that district. 6. Do you believe it would lead to increased efficiency ?—I believe it would. 7. Have your teachers found it difficult to get into better positions in other districts ?—I can speak personally. I have made application unsuccessfully. 8. Mr. Davidson.] Do you not think it is wise to have the elementary portion of the metric system taught in order to prepare for the adoption of that system when it may come ?—Personally I favour the retention of the metric system. 9. Is it not within the right of a teacher to draw up his own scheme of work and pay as much attention to formal grammar as he thinks fit ?—Yes ; but it is liable to be overlooked. 10. It is not so much the fault of the syllabus as the wish of the teacher and the Inspector ?— That is so. 11. What manual work is done in the schools of Marlborough ?—Woodwork and cookery. 12. Would you leave the teaching of these subjects until the children had passed out of the primary school ?—Yes. I believe that is the feeling of the Institute. 13. And other work, such as brushwork, &c. ?—They refer particularly to woodwork and cookery. The reason is that in the centres the children are brought in by train. The parents object to the train journey, and various other matters stand in the way. 14. Where it is possible to give the childrei of Standards V and VI tuition in cookery at their own schools, or in the immediate neighbourhood, would you object to the subject being taught then ?—No. 15. How many children would a teacher be instructing who was unable to earn more than 10s. a week ? —One. 16. You suggested that that grade of school should carry a salary ranging from £40 to £60 : would you have a minimum number of children in each school if that salary is to be provided ?—Yes, I think so. 17. If there was only one child do you think the State could afford to pay £40 ?—Hardly. 18. Would you stipulate that no such salary should be'Jpaid to aj,Grade|o school unless there was a minimum attendance ?—That is so. 19. Do you know where in any part of the Empire schools are as liberally treated by the State in regard to small schools as in New Zealand ? —I could not say with any degree of certainty. David Anderson Strachan examined. (No. 180.) 1. The Chairman.] What are your academic standing and teaching qualifications?—l am an M.A. of the New Zealand University, and have had twenty-four years' experience in teaching and inspecting. I have been an Inspector of Schools for ten years —for two years and two months in the Nelson District, and the rest in Marlborough. 2. Will you give us your general views on the question of education? —Some people have an idea that education is a fixed quantity. They do not know that it is flexible from age to age, suiting the prevailing idea and tendencies of the time, evolving here and atrophying there. An adequate knowledge of the history of education would show that the objective of education has changed repeatedly — e.g., to the Greek gentleman it was " a liberal education "; at a later time, proficiency in logic for the maker of creeds; later, a discipline in Ciceronian latinity for the upper classes; later, a knowledge of science for the upper classes; then, since Pestalozzi's time, a progressive psychologizing of education for the masses; and now, social efficiency for the masses. The present idea of State education is much more recent than is usually understood. Professor Macgregor, in his " Evolution of Industry," sa3 7 s it took two generations of agitation to get the hours of a child of nine years in a factory reduced to sixty-nine a week by the law of 1825. The first Reform Bill was passed in 1832. The first grant for State education in England was ,£20,000 in 1833. Prior to that, since the time of Raikes, the education of the masses was left to private persons operating usually ip, the interests of some religious denomination. Since 1833 the State has gradually assumed a larger part in popular education. The next important step was Mr. Lowe's payment by results, 1861. It was not until 1870 that the State opened schools of its own. Prior to the abolition of the provinces in New Zealand each province had its own system. Fees were paid, and the schools were frequently denominational. The provinces were abolished in 1877, and a general education system introduced into New Zealand. The system was practically unmodified —save by the introduction of handwork —until 1904, when the so-called new syllabus was introduced. You see our system is really very recent. It by no means dates back to immemorial time. It is probably as well suited to present needs as popular education has ever been suited to the needs of its time. Dr. Harris, the late Commissioner of Education in the United States of America, looking at education as a maker of citizens, said: "We are making the experiment of self-government, government of the people by the people, and it has seemed a logical conclusion to all nations of all times that the rulers of the people should have the best education available. Then it follows that the entire people of a democracy should be educated, for they are the rulers." Lord Derby, after the passing of the Reform Bill of 1868, which greatly enlarged the franchise, exclaimed, " Now we must educate our masters." Hence the Education Act in England, 1870. The growth of psychologic science has developed another idea of education in recent times—an idea which if it docs not now occupy the whole field is still present and must be taken into account, for whatever the aim of education may now be it must proceed on psychological lines. The latest idea is that the object of education is " social
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efficiency." The Commission can hardly come to any coherent conclusion unless it gets down to bed-rock. For instance, the Commission may be asked to introduce more or less of geography, to modify the programme in history, and throw out handwork, &c. At once the aim of education becomes important, for that will determine the curriculum, the amount of time to each study, the period at which it is first taught, the methods adopted, and the general institutional organization. If popular education is a State function, should it not be free to all? Is it not economically profitable to the State to have its people at the highest educational efficiency? Can it afford to put bars in the way of people who are willing to give what ability they have, be it more or less, and to sacrifice present wages in pursuit of a higher education ? If social efficiency be the aim, should not the natural and social sciences be awarded large space in the curriculum? Minor matters of local importance sometimes affect curricula— e.g., in America, where foreign immigration is large, it is a matter of life and death to the State to teach English speech well. The study of English, therefore, in American schools holds a larger part of the time than we need assign. We, on the other hand, appear to want such reforms as the metric system introduced into ordinary business practice. If it is not to be introduced there it should be discharged from the curriculum. New Zealand has sometimes led England in other directions-—why not in this? Teaching of science is also important in modern times, and handwork in response to the discoveries of psychologic science. There are people who criticize the Department and speak of its fads when they do not know the root principles on which it works. They do not know either the history or the theory of education, much less the effects of the recent developments of psychology on practice. The whole system as at present arranged gives the opinions of non-educationists too much apparent weight. There should be an infusion of educationists in the Education Boards. The Inspectors should be represented, the heads of secondary and technical schools should be there, and the president of the Education Institute, just as University College Councils have professors. There should also be other elected members of the business community. In my opinion the syllabus is generally an excellent one, but minor modifications are necessary— e.g., in arithmetic. I have never yet in the actual practical work of life required to find time or rate of interest. These rules may interest some, but to the bulk of the pupils attention given to them is waste of time. Geography : Course A contains a certain amount of useful mathematical geography, and an additional amount which, though interesting, is not educative in proportion to the time it demands. Moreover, there is doubt whether the average primary-school child is psychologically fitted to understand it— e.g., the part which endeavours to prove the revolution of the earth by study of the stars. Geography, Course B : Paragraph 42 of the syllabus runs : " The course shall consist of lessons . . . which may be spread over two, three, or four years in such a way that every child passing through . . . Standards 111 to VI in each year shall receive at least two years' instruction therein." Cf. history, paragraph 49, for Standards 111 to VI : " The lessons should be spread over two, three, or four years. They need not be taken every year." Now, these two subjects are, after handwork, the chief social-science subjects in the primary schools, and more should be made of them on modern lines, especially commercial and physical geography and civics. They should be taken every year. Teachers change, and if these subjects are not taken every year they are sometimes allowed to slip. In Marlborough for that reason I found it necessary to recommend that they be taken every year. English in the upper standards would be better if a more detailed definition were given. We have many teachers of small schools who find difficulty in interpreting a syllabus couched in general terms. These are relatively small matters. It were better to give the general syllabus a rest for a while. The former syllabus lasted from 1877 to 1904, and its virtues were discovered in the later years. It will be so in fuller measure with the present syllabus. It is worth reviewing the kind of criticism launched at the syllabus, and for this purpose a comparison of the present syllabus with the former one may be made. [Details were here given subject by subject.] There was practically no difference in the time given to the main subjects now compared with that given under the former syllabus. The position of handwork, dealt with elsewhere, is that in some cases handwork is only an instrument of teaching the other subjects; in other cases it takes the place of science under the old syllabus, and is therefore not additional. Now, what is some of the criticism of primary-school work since the introduction of the syllabus? The critic of writing :He is not new-born; he has always as long as I can remember said the writing was poor, and that in ever} 7 district of the Dominion. If ybu question him he has usually not visited the schools to see for himself; he takes his opinion from the man in the street; he is out to shake up somebody. Writing is a half-time occupation for a clerk, but not for a farmer, butcher, baker, engineer, &c. To the clerk it is a specialized occupation that he may profitably spare extra time for; the others want only a readily legible hand, not necessarily beautiful writing. Sometimes the writing of primary schools is judged by the product of the secondary-school pupil three years later. Writing is not usually taught in secondary schools. A walk of a hundred yards to investigate would frequently show the difference. Arithmetic : The arithmetic of the clerk is chiefly adding. This is also a specialized facility easily acquired in the early days of clerkship. The school gives an understanding of the principle in this and in other branches of arithmetic; the specialist must not ask the school to specialize too much. The draper wants practice, the sawmiller duodecimals, &c. The school has to provide an education in arithmetic for coming bankers, engineers, shareholders, &c, as well as for clerks, and the time of the school cannot be absorbed by clerks. Grammar v. English : The primary school aims to give the pupil a good working knowledge of spoken and written English, so that he may express himself vigorously, dramatically, and concisely. It is not the business of the primary school to teach grammar as a foundation for learning foreign or classical languages, but only as a, foundation for correct idiomatic, spoken, and written language. The vast bulk of the pupils do not go beyond the English language, and time that might be well spent on it should not be absorbed in preparation for work of the relatively few who gre going further : 150,000
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are in the primary schools, about 8,000 to 10,000 in the secondary, and only 1,500 to 2,000 in the University. At present only the last carry foreign language to the stage of culture. Gram-mar-study is "frequently only a pseud form of logic-teaching. Handwork, including woodwork, cookery, &o. : The introduction of these subjects is sometimes criticized by people who have never visited" the rooms and do not know the principles on which the teachers work — e.g., a very preValent notion is that woodwork is intended to make boys carpenters. The last twenty if not ten years have produced enormous changes in education owing to the attention given to the application of psychology to education. Some of the effects of the latter are —(1.) From the point of view of the pupil —the recognition of initiative and individuality; the recognition of organic development and its effects on mental development; the theory that racial progress and individual development throw light on each other; culture epochs; motor and sensory sides and the introduction of handwork; the progressive development up the school-work from abstract to concrete in the scheme of studies; recognition of cause, effect, and purpose, and not only of memory and understanding; instincts and their recognition, especially in the education of the will. Over thirty instincts have been tabulated, so it is evident that the teaching of the future is to be very different from that of the past. Psychology seeks out, lays hold of, and tabulates the instincts in order to utilize them in the educative process. Education is life, not for life, and .hence recognition of play, study of environment, social studies. (2.) On the studies: Books are more attractive by pictures and bold print; there is- a better graduated approach to the subject; size of print and spacing is studied, &c. Handwork usually takes the place of objectlessons or science under the old syllabus. As a rule only one branch of handwork is taught in each class of the primary school. Professor White, in his criticism of the syllabus, is looking at it from the point of view of the training college, where the teachers have options over a wide range of " ologies, " so that they may have opportunity of selecting the one each likes best. He will be most enthusiastic and do best work in that, but, as above mentioned, lie will usually have only one manual or science subject to teach. It is a vicious system that classifies some of the manual subjects as such. They are frequently mere instruments in the teaching of other subjects. Some critics want subjects added to the syllabus. One wants swimming, another lifesaving made compulsory, another sexual physiology, another more time for drill, another for medical inspection. Dr. Stenhouse, of Dunedin, used to want chess. There must be limits to the curriculum of primary schools, and also to the time devoted to each subject admitted. Sexual physiology is a subject of interest to some extent morbid, due to the effects of sensational journalism and sexual novels. It is an unsafe subject for average teachers, and should be left to medical inspectors. The teaching would probably lead to difficulties between teachers who strove to do their duty and parents who did not know the syllabus. Scholarships in aid of books should not be abolished in the case of town children. Of course, if free books were provided in secondary schools that would be a different matter, but I think the secondary teacher should have freedom of choice in his selection of books from year to yetir. As noted above, present-day education works partly on our knowledge of the psychology of the child. One part of psychology takes note of the instincts and makes use of them. Emulation is an instinct, and an instinct urging a child to ease the burden of education on its parent is not bad. A scholarship or free-place examination tends to keep the educational standards in the various districts uniform. Junior National Scholarship drawing, especially instrumental, bears hard on girls who take cookery in place of woodwork, and also on country boys who cannot attend woodwork rooms, for they may have been taught model drawing instead of solid geometry. The obscure working of the Act re scholarship age caused difficulty in Marlborough last year. Demilitarizing cadets : I do not like it, but physical exercises should be a part of the drill in every case. The teachers enjoy the work; the pupils like it; the teachers have in the past supplied some of the most capable officers. It is a nuisance to have the drill continually altered. Much of the freebooks difficult}' would be solved if spelling-lists were provided in the School Journal; other readers could then become general readers and be left in school. At present teachers do not wish readers kept in school, and will not take the risk of letting them out; hence the free-books grant is rejected. If reading-book money must be given let it be spent in providing continuous readers —in other words, applied to the library. The Department's 10 square feet limit of floorspace does not suit small schools adopting single desks; it provides insufficient floor-space. I think the schools of Maine allow square feet. Our own old Board schools were larger than those of the Department. Monthly official Gazette: The States of Australia issue these magazines regularly. The Gazette, show all vacancies in the State, and thus facilitate applications. By regulation Boards could be brought to publish their lists, and thus assist the operation of the Act, which provides that applications from districts outside that in which the vacancy occurs shall receive due consideration. The magazines of Australian States are the vehicles of much information useful to teachers; they spur emulation in provision of libraries and in school decoration, announce results of school concerts, assist the teacher by authorized articles on hygiene, naturestudy, school-gardening, and other modern subjects, promulgate regulations, and in very many ways promote educational effort. We are told that there is a library of pedagogical literature at the Head Office available for use by educationists. There should be a proper educational circulating library, with a due stock of all important educational reports and reviews. Only so can there be adequately diffused knowledge of up-to-date movements and tendencies in education. Tn many ways the people of New Zealand do not know how far back the}' are, simply because they do not have such knowledge. Information would strengthen the hands of the Department — e.g., in the matter of the abolition of pupil-teachers, the interpretation of the syllabus, hygiene, provision for technical and university instruction. It would be a matter difficult and full of danger to centralize the small Sounds schools. Centralization would have to be by motorlaunch, for the narrow foot-tracks do not favour long walking, and circling winds of great force
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are common. Where consolidation has been suggested in the Wairau Plain the Committees would have none of it. As Marlborough would be a typical centre the case was worked out as follows : — Salary-list of Sa] j. t Consolidated J School. Pupils. , £ £ Tuamarina .. .. .. 82 ~ Headmaster ~ 270 180 Marshlands . . .. .. 21 .. Ist assistant .. 180 90 Marlboroughtown .. .. 57 .. 2nd assistant .. 135 120 Wairau Pa .. .. .. 6 .. 3rd assistant .. 105 180 Kapaura . . . . .. 39 .. Two extra . . 90 90 . 90 36 205 150 £870 £846 Most of these separate small schools are " good " schools, so consolidation would conduce neither to economy nor to efficiency. The present scale of staff is not sufficiently liberal, which especially appears in the case of infant-rooms in large schools. The fact that there is in such schools one teacher to each fifty pupils speaks for itself. Strict average attendance should be recorded in statistics, otherwise one cannot make fair comparison with the returns of other countries. The great difficulty causing unrest among teachers to-day is the absence of a proper promotion scheme. Personally I do not know why the Department's classification scheme should not be the basis of all promotion. Al2 3 4 5 B 12 3 4 5 C 12 3 4 5 Dl 2 3 4 5 E 12 3 4 5 It takes account of (a) efficiency, (b) length of service, (c) educational qualification, (d) special merit; so what more is wanted? Yet several districts have brought into operation schemes that are more or less excrescences on that of the Department; they affect to take note of personality, ability to create environment, &c, as if these were not already included under the head of " efficiency." Such schemes only serve to divide district from district. If there is any scope for them they should have reference only to such teachers as are equal under the Department's scheme, and even then I consider seniority should count; the teacher should have at least so much " goodwill "in the business. This would not make merit wait on seniority, for merit could work up into a higher certificate and so push ahead. At the end of 1911 there were in Marlborough thirty-seven uncertificated teachers in situations worth from .£9O to £150 per annum. This indicates either a shortage of teachers or dissatisfaction with the emolument in the lower grades of service. It must be remembered that a certificated teacher cannot be classified with unskilled labour, and the above are the ordinary rates of pay for that class of labour. We lately had a communication from the Post and Telegraph Department which disclosed a much more attractive scale of salary than that held out to teachers. According to it a messenger begins at £31 per annum, with free uniform and £26 boarding-allowance if obliged to live away from home. Compare that with the remuneration of pupil-teachers —£25 with £20 boarding-allowance. The latter decreases by £5 each year; the former rises to £35, £45, £55, by which time the pupilteacher may have a D or even a C certificate. Compare further : The messenger rises " without promotion " by annual increments to a salary of £220 after fourteen years' service. Such a salary is offered to unskilled labour, yet I understand only 14 per cent, of the teachers in the Dominion (primary schools) have that salary. Do you wonder that male teachers are not attracted to the service? Low payments operate in our service from the Inspector-General down. The Director of Education in Sydney and in Melbourne in each case receive £1,000. The intellectual demands made on the teacher are much greater than they used to be in respect not only of information, but also in method and the reason for method. In household schools the capitation should be £10, as in Grade 1, or there, should be a minimum salary of £1 a week, or there should be some allowance like that given in South Australia, where £20 house-allowance is given in addition to capitation. These teachers sometimes have to teach Standard VI, which is the highest class a primary teacher takes. The provision of education for his children weighs much more severely on a backblock settler than on the resident in a town. The settler generally has to supplement capitation, and in addition board the teacher free. That represents an expenditure from £26 a j 7 ear to £50 a year. Teachers of probationers and Standard VII pupils in country places should have special remuneration. The teachers in such cases are virtually doing district high school work. One may not like payment by results as a usual matter, yet such a scheme might be applied to these cases. It is sometimes adopted in other branches of the Government service when cadets have been successfully prepared for their tests. The requirements in practical work for teachers' certificates bear hard on those down the Sounds, whence they cannot easily come to centres. Could not a provisional D be awarded subject to indorsement later when the necessary practical work had been done? Wo understood that a twenty-hours course in dairy-work would suffice for the Department, but forty hours are now required, after our teachers had put in their twenty hours at the summer school held in Blenheim last January-February. Marlborough has many' teachers but few pupils, for the schools are small. In such cases a larger relieving grant is necessary. Handwork, should not be treated as a separate subject with separate capitation for each branch. It would be better to give to Boards a capitation grant based on the quarterly
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attendance returns. This would incidentally tend to reduce registration and forms and economize stafi. The following illustrates a difficulty in finance : A teacher's class of twenty-one met for half an hour a day for five days; good solid work was done, yet if full attendance had been recorded the capitation earned would have been only 6s. 6fd. In Marlborough we need an initial grant to pay woodwork and cookery salaries; the present means at our disposal, although we run in every available child, gives only pinched salaries. This is not likely to maintain the popularity of the subjects, nor to give inducement to the teachers to strive to improve the presentment of their subjects. The salaries paid in large districts indicate that capitation is sufficient after a certain stage. Why should travelling-allowance be so variously computed? Teachers are officers of the Boards, yet the Department finds no difficulty in systematizing their salaries; why not also those of Inspectors? They should be met by special grants according to scale, as in the case of teachers. We have four training colleges : there should be not more than two —two so that all our eggs may not be in one basket, and the results of diverse direction would probably lead to progress. They ought to be staffed like the Medical and Mining Schools in Dunedin, with specialists of the standing of professors. Only by confining operations to centres could adequate provision be made in equipment and staff. We want specialists to apply chemistry, physics, and biology to education, not to teach general science. General science is no good to the doctor; he learns what suits his work, so too should the educationist. The training college should be a fully-fledged college with its own matriculation requirements —possibly the D certificate—and affiliated to New Zealand University. The departmental examinations and the University examinations are at present at cross purposes, and hinder the free development of the training college. The Department's C, B, A certificates have no special value outside New Zealand. There should be a B.A. degree in Education. Education should not be only one subject in a B.A. course as at present. The subjects could be—History of education; theory of education (psychology and ethics); methodology and practice of education; logic; biology; hygiene; chemistry and physics (to lower grade than B.A. — cf. medical intermediate), and other options— e.g., languages, mathematics, geography, history, economics; some applied science— e.g., agriculture, Arc.; kindergarten. The Department in Sydney sends teachers who wish to specialize in rural teaching to a school analogous to Lincoln College. It does not attempt that work at the training' college. A B.A. and M.A. in Education would remove one of the arch-difficulties in the way of the training college —namely, the desire of students to avoid practice in order to get a university degree. The art of medicine is not greater than that of education, if as learned, which is doubtful. After a specialized matriculation the medical student specializes in his own direction, with a certain infusion of science— cf. also law, which, however (the LL.B.), is an overburdened degree. The training-college period should be three years at least. The D certificate, as said, should be its matriculation, or at most the D certificate should be cumulative on matriculation. A teacher should on these lines be able to matriculate as early as on any other line, and not postpone the end of his course too late. If the training colleges and courses were rightly constituted the pupil-teachership and probationership should be done away with. At a training college there should be a pedagogical museum showing all kinds of apparatus and teaching-aids. Taking matters at the training college as at present, should any teacher gain a certificate without having been a pupil-teacher or a probationer the Department should give three to six months' training and full allowance for support. These should not be treated as outcasts. Inspectors should be empowered to nominate likely uncertificated teachers for free places at the training college, witli usual allowances, the nominees to have had at least three years' service. The training colleges do Marlborough little good, and cannot be expected to supply teachers for our small schools, so we have to do our own training. We have had three summer schools, an itinerant instructor in agriculture, Saturday classes, classes for uncertificated teachers (Saturday classes, correspondence classes, and classes of special session in dairy-work, hygiene, singing). There should be a common room for teachers coining in to Saturday classes. I understand such rooms are frequent in America. Special grants should be made for the purpose. Secondary work : The Latin marks in the Junior University Scholarship test force the secondary school to give great attention to grammar; the secondary school then demands grammar lower down, and then it criticizes the primary school if it does not send up a large quantity of grammar. The objects of a primary school are, as before noted, different from those of a secondary one, and still more from those of a university. Latin gets two and a half times as many marks as each science, so the science subject is starved, and its method of treatment is generally wrong. It is too disciplinary :in chemistry, for instance, it refines lessons on the different elements beyond the useful limit". We should get to practical applications of the science. In the programme of the Junior University Scholarship there, is no recognition of economics nor of sociological doctrine. Surely the wide scope of these is educative and especially suited to future law-makers. They give a liberal education. Do you not consider it strange that our pupils should study the antiquities of Rome— i.e., its civics and sociology—yet neglect the civics and sociology of their own times in which they have to live? It savours of knight-errantry. Education is life, and for life at this stage, so suitable subjects should be proposed for girls at high schools — e.g., drop mathematics and too much Latin, and put in home science. Boys' studies should be vocational—pure science, applied science, social science should have full recognition. That there is overlapping may be seen from comparison of the programmes in algebra and trigonometry for Junior University Scholarship and for B.A. They cover almost the same ground. Either the University Junior Scholarship test is too high or the B.A. too low. I think the latter is the case —compare Australian programmes for B.A. Mathematics might be made optional, but a higher standard set. The definition of English in Matriculation is to some extent dishonest, being partly defined in terms of history and geography. Just because Matriculation mathematics was low the standard has been pushed up in all subjects, and so people are squeezed out of the University who want the Matriculation
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merely as a stepping-stone to specialization. 1 had rather seen the B.A. mathematics increased and Matriculation left alone. Too late Matriculation means too late graduation and too late marriageable age. This trouble has been noticed in America. If Matriculation is raised to a four-year course the University Junior 'Scholarship should be awarded on Matriculation. Our Marlborough High School is hampered by want of endowment. It has an endowment of £400 a year, which was apparently calculated as the interest of £10,000 at 4 per cent. There is no unearned increment there. It has a considerable roll —about 130—so that if suitably endowed it could be more fully staffed, and would be able to meet the case of pupils who wish to specialize in different directions— e.g., domestic science, commercial work, applied science, classical courses. It should have laboratories for physics, chemistry, and biology, the last especially in connection with agriculture. Taranaki captured a large endowment in aid of scholarships. Last year I think none of their candidates qualified for a scholarship. Why not throw these scholarships open to the Middle University District outside Wellington City? It would give our students a better opportunity to take advantage of Victoria College. In Servia (population 3,000,000) education is free from primary school to university, so says Foster Fraser in " Pictures from the Balkans." This shows that we may sometimes learn from States reputedly backward. Joseph Patrick Frengley examined on oath. (No. 181.) 1. The Chairman?] What are you?—l am a Doctor of Medicine. I am Medical Secretary of the Department of Public Health and Hospitals and Charitable Aid. 2. Have you prepared a statement? —No. I only heard at short notice that I should be required to give evidence, and I have only a few things to mention. The first matter is with regard to the disinfection of schools on account of an epidemic of infectious disease. By the amendment to the Hospital and Charitable Institutions Act of 1910 making the several Hospital Boards the local authorities under the Public Health Act in regard to infectious diseases, and since then the appointment by almost all such Boards of one or more properly trained and certificated Sanitary Inspectors, the disinfection of schools after an outbreak of infectious disease has been put on a very sound basis. There can be no difficulty in any School Committee obtaining the services of a trained, certificated Sanitary Inspector who will carry out the disinfection when desired. In the past there were a number of local authorities under the Public Health Act, amounting to hundreds, each of whom ought to have looked to disinfection; but the way in which they attacked it was very haphazard. All that School Committees now require to do in the event of an outbreak of infectious disease at the school is to acquaint the local Hospital Board with the need for disinfection, and that Hospital Board will carry out the disinfection for them at a very small charge. In connection with infectious diseases in school, I should like to refer to the question of average attendance. The Commission will understand that in this I am giving rather my own personal views, and not those of my Department. It is in a sense not the Health Department's business, but I am very strongly of opinion that it is unjust to teachers to count against average attendance those absences which arc due to the proper enforcement of the Public Health Act and its regulations concerning infectious diseases. I would recommend that where any child in a household is absent on account of a notifiable infectious disease, either (a) because of himself suffering from that infectious disease, or (b) because of an infectious disease in his household, the school-teacher should be allowed to mark the roll in a specific manner and count these marks as presences, not absences, provided that he receives a certificate from the District Health Officer or the Sanitary Inspector of the Hospital Board of the district stating that a certain child or children were required to be absent during the period so marked. The Department of Public Health has already some machinery. At the present time, after a doctor has notified a case, we will say, of scarlet fever, the Hospital Board is at the same time also notified. The Hospital Board Inspector's duty, on receipt of that notification, is at once to send a confidential notice to the school-teacher as soon as lie has found out what school the child attends, informing that school-teacher of the fact that that child is suffering from scarlet fever, and also that any other children in that household should not be allowed to attend for a certain time. All that I suggest should be done in addition would be that the school-teacher, when marking for child Mary Jones, who has scarlet fever, should be allowed to put a mark, say, in red or some specific form to be decided upon for the whole time that that child is required to be absent by the Public Health Act, and i thinlv-it would be only fair that the teacher should not have his average attendance affected by a thing like that, over which he has no control. There is another very important point in this connection, and that is that we find there have been, and there are, unfortunately, some unscrupulous teachers —I have one case in point; it actually has been before an Education Board —who are not careful to keep away one or two children suffering from scarlet fever, who do not do their best, and who rather take the attitude that it is just as well to have the school closed. They know that if they have a good number of cases the school will be closed. It is a severe thing to say of teachers, and I can only instance one case. It was like this : there was a case of scarlet fever known to the teacher —at that time there was not the 10-per-cent. certificate, of which no doubt you are aware —and the teacher there deliberately allowed two or three cases to attend. He did not keep them away, because that would have reduced the average attendance; but he knew very well that if he had a fair number of cases his school would be closed and it would not affect his average. School closing on account of infectious diseases : This is on a very unsatisfactory basis. We find schools being closed on account of one or two cases of scarlet fever or notifiable infectious disease for little or no reason. The local School Committee get frightened, and they suddenly decide to close the school. All over the world Departments of Public Health have arrived at a decision, and it is this : that only under the most exceptional circumstances should a school be closed on account of the presence of infectious disease. Very much more can be done by what we have now—a proper Inspector for infectious-
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disease work in each district, and by his visiting the school the moment a case of scarlet lever is notified —more particularly in country districts —and ascertaining , if by any chance it is likely that any other houses are infected with the disease, and helping the schoolmaster next morning, say, to keep away from attendance at the school those children about whom there is any doubt. - Then it should be the duty of the Inspector to go round —and we are actually doing •it now —to those children's homes and ascertain the cause of their absence, and if there should be any reason for suspecting scarlet fever he ought to order the child to be kept away. If School Committees were advised that schools should not be closed on account of infectious disease, unless they have a certificate from the District Health Officer, I think a very great deal would be done in the direction of preventing schools closing needlessly. In the towns there is no use in closing a school on account of infectious disease. The children who in school hours are together would be together just as much out in the open. Parents nowadays do not care very much about looking after these things. They trust to an Inspector or some one else to keep the children from mixing oii£ with another, and I think less precautions are taken by the parents than used to be. As to the cleansing of schools, the Department have always been anxious to encourage the use of what is called the pan system in country schools. There is no difficulty in districts where there is a water-carriage system; it is in country schools that there is difficulty. The pan system is undoubtedly the most satisfactory one, mainly by reason of the fact that if there be not too large a pan or pail it is necessary that the contents be removed very frequently. That in itself is a most important thing. To put it in another way, if you could have the pan emptied daily obviously you would have a better system than if it were emptied only once a week. In country districts particularly the 'School Committees and Education Boards have told us that the pan system is impossible on account of the difficulty of getting some one to remove the contents; therefore the Department has, very regretfully, had to agree to the old-fashioned cesspit or midden system —that is, a hole underneath the closet—and trusts to the addition of lime or clay periodically to render danger to the children less definite than it would seem by the adoption of such a system. Of course, in the disinfection of such a school, if there were infectious disease the Inspector would pay particular attention to that. In my time as District Health Officer in the Auckland District, thanks to the architect there —Mr. Mitchell —a great number of appliances and methods were tried with respect to this difficulty, but the result has been that we have had to go back to the pit system. As to ordinary cleansing of schools, an inclination to throw disinfectants upon the dust and dirt rather than to remove it by the best possible and only rational means —soap and water, a scrubbing-brush, and ample elbow-grease —is unfortunately 7 the tendency of many School Committees. I am speaking in general terms, because I can safely ■say that in the Wellington District every effort is being made. I should prefer my remarks to be taken as general, so that no one may be offended by them. It may be desirable to add an sfficient disinfectant to soap and water when used, and also, when sweeping is being done, by direct spraying or by damping sawdust with such fluids; but the tendency with many a Committee seems to be to use disinfectants as a sufficient means to get over the difficulty and trouble of removing the dirt. Some Committees are not seised of the fact that they would not allow to be done in their own houses what thej" seem to think is sufficient for the schools. That, I think, is not quite right in the interests of the health of the children. I would recommend, therefore, that more attention be given to school-cleansing on similar lines to house-cleansing. I'd this may be added—and should be added, no doubt, in many cases —the use of very valuable disinfectants; but the disinfectant should be the secondary and not the primary part of the cleansing. There is great difficulty in this matter. I once proposed, when in the Auckland District, that the Board there should appoint cleaners who would travel round and give the schools a definite and thorough cleansing, but I was at once met by 7 the difficulty that the only available time to do this work is on the Saturday, and therefore it would take ages before such cleaners could travel round the district; the cost would be immense if you had special cleaners who could only work once a week. Consideration of the matter, I need hardly say, was abandoned; but I still think Education Boards wo\ild do well if during holiday-time they had cleaning staffs who would go round and thoroughly clean the schools. These persons should be trained in all the best possible means of cleaning, and should be provided with the most modern apparatus —for instance, the vacuum cleaner for removing dust. There is no short cut to cleansing an ordinary little country school. A vacuum cleaner will not do; the cost would be tremendous if the Boards had to provide such things for each school; and really 7 , if you can get soap and water and a scrubbing-brush and some one to apply them, the most efficient means is provided. A point I have to come to now is the use of school buildings for socials and other such purposes. School Committees complain that after such use the buildings are often left in an untidy condition. There are regulations—at any rate, in this district—regarding the users putting the school in good condition prior to the entrance of the scholars next day, but I think the use of schools for purposes which involve additional cleansing should be put on a sounder basis. I think it would be a fair thing to make a uniform charge for the use of school buildings by anybody when it involves additional cleaning subsequently, and I think it could be decided upon by the Education Boards at so-much per cubic foot. These persons also use the sanitary conveniences, and it is in that direction that the greatest abuse of school buildings is found. I have myself seen the sanitary 7 appointments of a school, after a social, in a very filthy condition, and it was left to the school people to put things right. In another case they were only partly put right by the person using the school. Concerning school architecture, I have in mind a little country school. I think it is now closed, the population having gone from that district; but to my surprise I saw, as a means for lighting a tiny school—with nothing to interfere with its getting light —a skylight in the roof. Now, it should not be necessary under any circumstances to so badly design a little tiny school as to require a skylight. I would there-
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fore recommend that no school buildings in future should be erected or altered unless the plans and specifications have been referred to the Medical Inspector of Schools working in that district. In support of this I can cite the present Hospital and Charitable Institutions Act. Under that Act it is required that before a Hospital Board can add on to its buildings or alter them beyond a cost of £250 the consent of the Minister has to be obtained, and this system is, in the opinion of Hospital Boards generally, working very satisfactorily. A more uniform system in regard to hospitals is being obtained. The Department, while not interfering with the individual architecture of any designer, sees, at any rate, that he does not leave out things which ought to be put in. Those are the points that I desired to put before you. 3. Mr. Davidson.] You spoke of School Committees being able to have their buildings disinfected by applying to the Hospital Board, and said that this could be done at a small cost: can you give us any idea of the approximate cost? —The cost, roughly, is about 2s. 6d. a thousand cubic feet. 4. Do you think it would be a good plan to have in this Dominion a Council of Education which should direct the policy of education regarding every .feature of the education system, including lighting, heating, and ventilating of school buildings? —I am afraid I have not given the matter sufficient consideration to give you a concise answer. 5. Mr. Kirk.] As to a school not being closed without the certificate of the District Health Officer, local conditions would require to be considered there. For instance, if the local Health Officer were located three days' journey away from a school I suppose you would not insist on his certificate being granted? —I had in mind that such certificate would be obtained through the local Inspector of the Hospital Board for infectious diseases; he is always on the spot. Every Hospital Board has now got its Inspector. There are at least thirty-six Inspectors throughout the Dominion. The school authority—Committee or master —would advise the Inspector of infectious disease. The Inspector would then briefly put his points, either for or against closing, to the District Health Officer by telegram. The District Health Officer would then decide whether the school should be closed or not, or whether it was a case where he himself must visit. 6. You spoke about cleansing : would you recommend to School Committees that they might also, each term, fumigate their buildings with sulphur—that would be every three months ? —I think it would be wise that at least once a year the school be given a disinfection by the infectiousdiseases officer, who is specially trained in that work. I think disinfection every three months would not be of as much value as a good cleaning. 7. Do you think it would be sufficient if, in addition to the soap and the scrubbing-brush, there were this fumigation every three months ? Some School Committees are doing this :do you think they are doing good work?— They are doing good work, but I think they are doing perhaps a little unnecessary work. If there has been no infectious disease in the school there is no need to specially disinfect in the way a Hospital Board's man would. Sulphur disinfection is now regarded as being of little or no value. 8. What would be the disinfectant? —We prefer formaldehyde spraying with warm water. It is usually so powerful that the Inspector only ceases his work because he cannot stand the atmosphere any longer. That should be done at least once a year even if you have no infectious disease. 9. By fumigation with sulphur I mean a fumigation that would be so strong that a man could not stay in the room at all? —The experiments made of recent years go to show that it has very little killing-power, more particularly on the spores of organisms. 10. Mr. Wells.] With regard to school buildings, do you not think it would be an advantage if the Education Department were to procure plans of buildings of the best design and circulate them among the Education Boards for guidance? —I hardly think that that would help very much. I think each particular case has to be judged on its merits. In hospital work we have not found it of very much value to send round standard designs. We prefer that the designer should use his own initiative in his design, and that should be amended as thought fit, otherwise there is just a fear that newer ideas might perhaps be blocked by stereotyped notions. 11. Regarding the inside architecture of the rooms, is it not very important that there should be as few projections as possible where dust will lodge? —The interior of a school should always be designed on what are called hospital or aseptic lines. This implies the least possible projections to catch dust. I might add that in hospital work the only difficulty remaining is as to the floor-material. What is wanted is a good floor-material which will not crack, and which can be put down at a cost that would not be much greater than tongued-and-grooved timber. Such a material would cheapen the cost of cleaning immensely. There is a material on the market in Christchurch from which favourable results are anticipated. It has been in use for some time, and I am informed by a reputable firm of architects there that the cost of covering a rough floor with that material would not be much more than putting down tongued-and-grooved flooring. If this is so the schools of the future will have a floor-surface that there will be no difficulty whatever in washing down. A wooden floor is difficult to wash. 12. Has the Health Department ever issued any advice or instructions as to the varying length of time for which children should be kept away on account of the different infectious complaints?—Oh, yes; I have a copy here. We have issued it, and we are desirous of issuing it in conjunction with the Education Department, but the Education Department do not like the way in which some of the clauses are phrased. So the first edition was allowed to go out of print, and we are now having a new one drawn up, and this will be sent to all the schools of the Dominion. 13. Mr. Davidson.] In very many schools in New Zealand the lighting is from the back and the left, and is often very low down : as a consequence the teacher is always standing facing this light, and it is said that in many cases the teachers' eyes have been seriously injured. Is that
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a good system of lighting? —The most desirable system is a good light from the left, not from the back. It would depend greatly on which quarter of the sky the window at the back faced. If it faced the north I take it that it would be more injurious than if it faced the south. I do not think any teacher could say his eyes were injured much by light corning from the south. 14. The cases that I have in mind are exactly as you say —that is, the windows face the north and are low down : the teacher has the light in his face and on his right. Would you condemn that system, of lighting?—No, because I think that under some circumstances it is almost impossible fo get any other. I would not go so far as to condemn an existing room as unfit for that reason. 15. Would you condemn the system if another system were possible in the building of new schools? —Yes, I would prefer another system. 16. In the meantime teachers must suffer?—l do not think there is very much in that contention. Bacteriologists have constantly to look down microscopes, for which they must have good light, and, moreover, they have to use one eye; yet I have never heard a bacteriologist say his eyesight was injured. 17. Mr. Hogben.] Supposing you found that, acting on the highest medical authorities, the London County Council's and the Scotch building rules did not condemn back light, what would you say —I mean, in regard to the building of new schools? —I have said that I quite agree with that. 18. Regarding the approval of plans for additions to schools and for new schools, to what Inspector do you say they should be referred? —The Medical Inspector of Schools. 19. You recognize that a good many things in connection with the building of a school, such as the size and position of the desks, are matters for the Education Department?— Yes. 20. The Chairman.] Would it not be of material assistance to the better planning of schools if the Department had the services of an architect who was familiar with up-to-date rules of ventilation, heating, and lighting, and who would advise them in conjunction with the Medical Inspector of Schools? —I think so. 21. For example, we have heard a good deal about the better heating of schools from below the school by the diffusion of hot air, &c. : would it not be advisable that some one who had seen this in schools elsewhere should, in conjunction with your medical officer, advise the Department before these plans are finally passed?—lt would but for the fact that in. New Zealand we have not got to the stage of requiring many of these elaborate systems. 22. I have seen some very elaborate attempts for all that? —Then I must plead ignorance. I have never been a Health Officer in the south of the South Island. Thomas Alexander Hunter made affirmation and was examined. (No. 182.) 1. The Chairman.] What are you?— Professor of Mental and Moral Science at Victoria College, Wellington. 2. You have been so engaged for ?—About nine years. 3. Prior to that, I think, you had considerable experience in the teaching profession in various parts of the Dominion? —I was a pupil-teacher and attended the Training College at Dunedin; I was in charge temporarily of a small school at Warepa; thereafter assistant master and house-master at Waitaki Boys' High School; after which I came to Wellington as Lecturer in Economics and Mental Science. I am a Master of Arts and Master of Science of the New Zealand University. I have had some experience of the American universities and schools. 4. Will you kindly say what you have to say?—l have been too busy to go into this question exhaustively, but as the Commission asked me to give evidence I came here to mention some of the points that I consider to be most important, and to submit myself for examination. I shall confine myself principally to what seems to me to be the fundamental point in the whole educational system —that is to say, the teacher. The first necessity, it seems to me, of a successful education system is to induce into the teaching profession the very best material procurable, and then to give it the best possible training. I think that any one who makes any sort of comparison of the status and emoluments of the teaching profession with those of other professions must be struck with the fact that they are not in any way commensurate with the importance of the profession. One willingly recognizes, however, that within recent years there has been a very marked improvement in that respect, but it is evident, from the material that is now coming into the teaching profession, that the improvement is not nearly enough. 1 am certain that the Principals of the training colleges in giving evidence will have noted the fact that the material coming into the training college is not of the quality they would like to see. The first condition, it seems to me, that a person looking round the profession wishes to see improved is its status and its emoluments. I know you have had masses of statistics regarding this matter. Statistics may mean something or they may not. The general tenor of those statistics, however, is, I think, in a way alarming. But you can look at the matter from quite another point of view, and that is this : if you compare the status and emolument of the legal, medical, and teaching professions in New Zealand you find at once, in regard both to status and emolument, the teaching profession is not on the same level as the medical and legal professions. There is therefore a tendency either for the best material not to come into the teaching profession at all, or, if it does, to take the very first opportunity of getting out. Yet. it seems to me that the teaching profession is, from the point of view of a democracy particularly, of importance second to none. Another condition that a teacher, or a person wishing to become a teacher, would like to see satisfied is some guarantee that if he shows ability and industry those qualities will be recognized in the way of promotion. Now, the present method of appointment, it seems to me, is in some of its phases absolutely beneath contempt. There can be no doubt that the present method does give rise to a great deal of what is known as "backstairs influence," and that sort of thing brings into the minds of teachers a certain feeling- of chagrin and enmity to the whole system if they do
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not get what they consider their right promotion, although, of course, everybody cannot be promoted, and in very many cases those who feel this have no justification for it. It also has this effect: those who engage in canvassing immediately have their self-respect lowered, and that reflects itself in their attitude to the children and to those whom they have canvassed. 5. Mr. Pirani.] You are not speaking of those districts where there is a promotion scheme in operation?—l will come to that. I am keeping to the general question first. Now, it seems to me that you have got to start from this position : that neither the School Committees nor the Education Boards are competent to appoint teachers; and under the present system there is a total absence of what is an absolute essential if you are going to have good appointments, and that is a sense of responsibility. A bad appointment under the present conditions cannot be charged to anybody. The Committee in most cases can throw the responsibility on to the Board for not giving them a wider selection; the Board, again, can blame either the Committee or the Inspectors; and the Inspectors can throw the blame on to either of the other two bodies. It seems that we must get back to those people who know, and I think the people who know are the Inspectors who have had actual knowledge of the teachers and their training; and that carries with it, it seems to me—because if the Boards are not competent to appoint the teachers they are obviously not competent to appoint the Inspectors—that carries with it the necessity that the Inspectors must belong to the Central Department. The Inspectors, being officers of the Central Department, would then be attached to the various Boards as their advisers and Inspectors. Again, I do not think it would be wise—and T do not think it would meet with satisfaction if it were possible—for the Inspectors to make their reports irrespective of the judgment of the governing authority in the district —that is to say, the Board. The proposal that seems to be a logical and a just one is that the Inspectors, acting as the advisers of the Board, should prepare a reasoned report on the applicants for an} 7 particular post. I believe that in the case of an assistant master the Inspectors should consult with the headmaster of that particular school, because no man can be responsible for the efficiency of the school unless he has some voice or carries some weight in the selection of the masters who shall work under him. That report, then, is submitted to the Board by the Inspectors, and it will show in the Inspectors' opinion the classification of the teachers who are applicants, and will show reasons why the man who is first on the list should be appointed and why the other men should not be appointed. Then the Board, of course, technically makes the appointment, but the Board does so knowing full well its responsibility in respect to disregarding the advice of its expert advisers. If this work is thrown on to the Central Department, it seems to me it will be a valuable adjunct of the Central Department if some Commissioners or Council of Education —call it what you like —be set up to act with the Department. I do not think, however, that that body should be a large, cumbrous body. T do not take the view which, I believe, has been expressed that there are various interests to be protected throughout New Zealand, and that all those who have an interest to be protected, so to speak, should have a representative on that Council of Education. On the contrary, I believe there is only one interest to be protected, and that is the interest of the national sy r stem of education. I believe that a body of five would be amply large enough—three might be better —to constitute a general Council of Education to act with the Department. This would get over the difficulty that has been raised —viz., that teachers in smaller districts do not get a chance in other districts, for the undesirable feature of the present system of an Inspectorremaining for a long time in one place would be done away with, and the Inspectors, being officers of the Central Education Department, could meet at intervals and discuss the abilities of the various teachers in their districts. The next thing, I think, that a teacher looks for is freedom in teaching. I believe that the freedom of the teacher has been very unduly circumscribed by the present system of School Committees. T believe that the School Committee is a necessary body, for I think it is advisable to keep the schools in as close connection as possible with the parents of the children attending the schools; but I hold that all the School Committee is useful for is to act as a kind of board of works, to co-operate with the teacher in regard to such things as the building and equipment of the institution, but in no way to have any standing as far as the teaching in the school is concerned. The teacher must be supreme within his own school—■ that is to say, subject only to the Department through its officers, the Inspectors, and the Education Board. Another way- in which I believe the teacher's freedom, through the School Committee, is likely to be circumscribed is in regard to the question of sectarian influence and dogma of various kinds, and I believe that anything of this sort —such, for example, as the introduction of the Bible into schools —will be very detrimental to the freedom of the teacher and very detrimental to the interests of the national system of education. Another way in which the teacher's freedom seems to me to be circumscribed is by the pernicious system of payment by average attendance. There are schools very difficult to manage in which the average attendance is low; there are schools —most schools, as a matter of fact —in which irregularity of attendance, instead of meaning, as one would naturally think on account of the lowering of the salary, that the work becomes easier, makes the teacher's work very much more difficult. There ought to be a classification of schools according to their importance and apart altogether from the average attendance at those schools. The last point is one that has within recent years been provided for — that is to say, the teacher looking forward to his old age has under the present system a pension in view. The next point I should like to speak upon is the training of the teacher. Having got the best material we should certainly try to give the teacher a thorough training, a, training comparable to the training that is given, for example, to a medical man or to a lawyer. I believe that even in this year of grace the pupil-teacher system is being readvocated. I trust the Commission will never in any way suggest that we should revert to such a, bad system as that. Those who, like myself, have been through it know the evils that attach to it. All future teachers — primary and secondary—ought to pass through the training colleges. The present method by
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which teachers are appointed to the secondary schools really prohibits proper organization and effective work in secondary schools, and the same sort of vicious influence is at work in the primary schools, where you have inducements offered to the brighter material to immediately take a position in a school as a pupil-teacher or in some such form where a certain amount of money is to be earned, instead of this material going through what seems to me to be the proper 'course —training at the training college. Again, [am opposed to a view that has been put forward that it is not advisable to keep the training colleges in close connection with the University. I believe both for efliciency in training and for economy in working that must be done; but I admit that the University will require to modify its courses very considerably before they will be the most suitable for teachers —that is to say, the University must place the emphasis on training and not on examination, as is the case at present. Every teacher that is sent out imbued with the idea that education consists in passing an examination is really going to become, unless he speedily changes his views, an incubus on the national system of education. lam quite ready to admit that it is not advisable that all the students now entering training colleges should aim at a degree—a good many of them are not fit for it —but that it would be a good thing for education if all the teachers had the wider point of view that University training should give is, 1 think, undeniable; and if this series of examinations was done away with it would not be impossible to combine attending University classes in the winter-time with a good deal of practice in teaching during the University recess, particularly if the training-college course were made longer than it is, which I think is very desirable. Some allowance in time, too, for University work of a character approved by the Principals of the training colleges should be made to those students who take work at the University. We have practically what is a beginning of that at the present time in the system by which bursaries are given to graduates to go on to the training colleges. Another point, and a point in regard to which we are, I think, behind other countries : I refer to the application of modern methods to the training of teachers. A beginning, again, has been made here, but is seriously hampered by the examination evil. Look, for example, at the Department's examinations. No doubt the Department may perhaps fairly urge that this is a consequence of the evil influence of the University; but it becomes quite evident that we want in these examinations, if they are going to continue, fewer subjects and greater thoroughness. If you take the D examination, for example, you find that there are thirteen compulsory subjects, and vocal music above all things is included among them. I am aware that a person may get exemption from what has to be considered a compulsory subject, but that does not seem to be a suitable way of meeting the difficulty. There are also twenty optional subjects, of which the candidate may take two, making in all a group of fifteen subjects. Of course, it may be urged, as no doubt it can be urged, that some of these subjects are only sections of a subject. When one finds, however, that in one group, for example, methods of teaching are assigned 300 marks, elementary hygiene 200, and vocal music 200, and that, according to the regulation, if a person falls below 35 per cent, of the total marks in vocal music it is impossible for him to pass group 3, obviously an alteration is necessary. In all these subjects, however, no mention is made of what seems to me to be the fundamental subject in education—that is to say, psychology. I would oppose as strongly' no doubt as the Department would oppose a psychology which consisted simply in the learning of a certain amount of psychological patter, but I do believe that training in the method and point of view of psychology, particularly in its practical aspects, is becoming, or has become, really essential to the training of teachers. If you pass on to the C examination you find there are fifteen compulsory subjects, which, of course, include the thirteen for D, and thirtyeight optional subjects, of which the candidate may take either four or three according to circumstances. Psychology there again appears in Division 3. It is not a compulsory subject, and no practical work is required. It is interesting to note here that at the present time the Melbourne Training College, in conjunction with the University, is setting up a laboratory for the experimental investigation of pedagogical problems. Here is a matter on which the Department could co-operate with the University. ' It would be necessary, I am aware, that the latter should be overhauled before the Department could use it to the best advantage, and when the University is overhauled and put on a proper basis the Department might accept University certificates in lieu of the departmental examinations, just as, for example, T believe the Department now accepts the judgment of the Principal of the training college in lieu of their examinations. It is coming to that. It may be ur-ged that we are moving towards that position by gradual steps, but when we have a Commission dealing with problems on a wide basis it seems to be the proper opportunity to move a little bit more quickly than the Department has been able to do in the past. The Department, of course, accepts the University examination for the B and A certificates, and there is no reason why this should not be applied to the other certificates. T think the difficulty is the examination system. Take the Victoria College building: From the cessation of lectures towards the end of October right on till the College opens again there is an almost unbroken series of examinations. The Training College people, for example, may pass their term examination in October, they may then sit for a degree examination in November, and then sit for a departmental examination in January again. It simply means that the students have no time to give to the practice of their profession. As T say, Tdo not lay the blame on the Department, because the Department has no control over the University ; still, from an educational point of view the trouble is there. Those, Mr. Chairman, seem to me to be the most essential points in regard to the training of the teacher, which is really the main qtiestion that T wished to bring before the Commission. There are one or two other points, however, that \ should like to mention. In respect to the syllabus, T think the principle of the new syllabus is very sound—that is to say, the principle that gives a choice to the teachers. It has been misinterpreted, of course, by some of the Inspectors, but that is only another reason for placing the Inspectors under the Central Department, because it seems to be the height of foolishness for
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the Central Department to draw up a syllabus and then to have to place it in other hands for interpretation, which after all is the main thing. It becomes necessary, if the Department is going to draw up the syllabus, that the Department should have the interpretation of it in its hands, through the Inspectors. I believe we should carry the principle of choice somewhat further . —that the actual organization of society requires a certain knowledge of certain subjects. It would, in our organization of society, be impossible to have an effective citizen without a knowledge of his language, without the ability to read and calculate, and so on; but outside of what may be considered in that way the essential subjects, it seems to me that what shall be taught in any particular school depends on the pupils of the school and the teacher. A good deal ought to be left to the teacher's aptitudes and inclinations. For example, if the teacher were enthusiastic in vocal music, that would be a subject that should be taught. If he is not, it seems to me worse than useless for him to try to teach it. Another point :In some of the primary schools various forms of defectives are to be found —children who are more or less idiots. Experience has shown that this is a very bad thing for the defectives and the school. I think an absolute prohibition should be laid down to ensure the exclusion of children of that kind. With regard to technical education, I do not profess to be an expert, but the system seems to be too pretentious. If we would, in technical education particularly, try to do fewer things and do them well 1 think it would be better. Ido not think the Boards should control the secondary schools, but it might be suggested that one body should control secondar}- and technical schools, and that technical education might be made an aspect of secondary education. That would mean a certain amount of economy both in buildings and in teachers. With regard to the free-place system, I believe that the State cannot afford to waste intellect, that we ought to train all the people who a.re worth training, and, on the other hand, we should not train anybody who is not worth training; and if we had fewer places tenable for a longer period the State would get a better result than by sending a larger number of children to the secondary schools, where they may not stay for a long-enough time to get any benefit from it. The secondary schools, too, are beinginjured under the present system of matriculation. Matriculation is being used improperly, both by the University and by the secondary schools. It is being used improperly by the University because it is being made a source of revenue, and it is being used improperly by the schools because it is being made a means of advertisement. We have, too, some secondary schools within the Victoria College district which, instead of preparing candidates under the present system for Junior Scholarships, think it is better from the point of view of advertisement that they should prepare them for the first section of the B.A. degree or for that degree itself. They think it is better to do that than attempt to obtain a Senior Scholarship. If the system of accredited schools was introduced, by which the headmaster, after the pupil had been a certain number of years in the school, could accredit him to the University and thereby he would be admitted without examination, and if matriculation were used merely as an entrance examination to the University for those who attend schools other than the accredited schools, I think it would be good both for the University and for the secondary schools. All these things seem to bring us back to the position that until we have a thorough inquiry into the University, which after all shapes the ideals and methods of many of our teachers, we shall never- be able completely and satisfactorily to solve the problem of education in New Zealand. 6. Mr. Wells.] You have trained college students coming to the University? —Yes. 7. How long have they been coming under your notice? —I think the Training College was established about six years ago. 8. Not long enough for you to express an opinion as to whether there is a falling-off in the quality of those who are now entering the teaching profession?—lt is not a very long period, but Ido not think there is any falling-off. I think they are very much about the same as they were. 9. With regard to your remarks about the teachers' certificate —as to too many subjects being taken rather than a few being taken thoroughly—can you make any suggestion as to what should be struck out of the list of compulsory subjects for D?— Yes; I would point to vocal music at once. 10. Any other? —I think I would bring them together; I would not divide them into so many subjects. 11. But that would not eliuiifiate anything, would it? —No, but it would treat them differently. 12. There is only one subject—vocal music—that you would absolutely strike out?—l am not prepared to say that until. I had gone into the matter with the actual prescription before me. 13. You would be quite in favour of having vocal music taught in the school where the teacher is capable of teaching it?— Most decidedly. I would go so far as to say that if it were possible to bring a teacher from outside it should be done. 14. With regard to the free-place system, do y 7 ou think it would be a good thing to allow teachers of recognized efficient schools to accredit their pupils to the secondary schools? —Yes. 15. Do you know that a good many of those who secure free places attend the secondary school for only a short time? —It is some years since I had anything to do with the secondary schools, but in my time they did. 16. You recognize there is a good deal of waste going on there?—l am not competent to speak of the present time, but in my time there was. 17. You recommended that pupil-teachers should be abolished altogether: would you favour admitting young people to the training colleges who had not had previous experience in teaching? —Most certainly. I would not favour anything else. 18. Do you know there is a general consensus of opinion that the Class B students do not — at first, at any rate —prove as efficient teachers after leaving the training college as those in
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Class At —Have you got any facts in regard to ihe different class of material of A and B i Do you judge these students immediately tliey come out ol the training college? 19. Within tiie first year or two { —One has liad twice the training oi the oilier, presumably. Judging ironi my experience, when a young tcaclier goes into a scnooi as a pupil-teacher lie learns many things that lie has to unlearn when he goes to a training college. 20. Will it not all depend on the school he goes into? —That may be so now. That was not the experience oi the pupil-teachers oi the past. What happened in that past was that the pupil-teactrer simply had to take a big class on his own responsibility to begin with. 11 he does not go as other than an assistant to a qualified teacher the position, of course, is quite different. Zl. bupposmg he really does go through a course oi training in the school, gives lessons before the headmaster, and is criticized and helped in the giving of them 't —My experience has been that that is very much more ehectively done in the training college than m schools. To do it in the schools is a wasteful method. 22. Mr. Kirk.] What are the evils of the pupil-teacher system?—it depends upon what you mean by " the pupil-teacher system." 23. As you understand it?—ln my experrenee the pupil-teacher went into a school, obtained a certain number of lessons from the headmaster at intervals, and took charge of a class, it simply meant that the pupil-teachers got into very bad methods of work and fell into all the possible errors, and when they went to the training college, instead of being suitable material, they were material which the Principal of the training college had to prepare. 1 would prefer the student to go to the training college for a year to begin with, and then perhaps go out and do some teaching; but 1 do not think any one should be placed in charge of a class without some knowledge of the main principles of teaching. 24. ft has been suggested to us by a member of the Legislative Council that if there is a reversion to the pupil-teacher system there will be more recruits for the service? —That may be or may not be. What 1 say is that if the only way in which you can get recruits for teaching is through the pupil-teacher system you had better not get the recruits. There ought to be other and proper methods of getting recruits; if there are not we are better without them. 25. Do you know that many of our best teachers have gone through that pupil-teacher system : 1 think you yourself went through it? —Yes, many people have been through bad systems, but that is no reason why you should put other people through them. 26. But if you were told that those conditions do not obtain now —the conditions through which you had to pass?—l am not prophesying in any way. If the conditions are as 1 depict them, then 1 say the pupil-teacher system is wholly bad. 27. Assuming a teacher took that interest m a pupil-teacher that he ought to take, would you still condemn the system? —1 do not know what interest you can speak of, because the teacher was in a separate room. It was simply a case of cheap labour; it was sweating in one of its worst forms. 28. Will you give us your opinion as to whether there is any necessity for what is alleged to be cramming, beginning with the Junior University Scholarship and going downwards, and any remarks you may care to make on the general examination question as it affects pupils? — As far as the general examination question goes, 1 believe the person who teaches the student should, under regulations, have the right to say whether he is fit to be promoted or not. I do not believe in the external system of examination. 29. He should alone have the right? —1 do not mean to say that the school is not to be inspected. 30. Do you discriminate between examination and inspection?— Undoubtedly. I believe that examination as such should be in the hands of the teacher. 31. From your experience as a teacher can you indicate whether the examinations that are undergone, and which some people—perhaps from want of knowledge —allege to be too strenuous, should be in any way modified? —To what examinations are you referring? 32. You can speak as generally or as specifically as you like? —As far as the external examination is concerned —that is to say, an examination conducted by people who have no knowledge of the candidates except what they get through the examination—l am opposed to that as a general principle. ' 33. Apart from what you have said, can you give us anything definite as to how and in what respects school instruction can be improved and made of more practical value in equipping pupils for their careers?— Personally, 1 think that the idea of trying in the primary schools to equip young people for their future careers is absurd. That, I think, is not the object of a primary school. 34. What should be the aim of the primary school? —It should be to train the child as far as possible in methods of thought, to widen the child's outlook, and to lay a firm basis in those fundamentals which are necessary whatever the child is going to be. The two main points are to lay 7 the basis of future stud} 7 as far as it can be laid in the primary school, and to train the child in methods of thought and methods of action —moral and physical. 35. What should be the aim of the secondary school as opposed to the technical school?— I believe those two might be brought together in a measure. In a technical school the main idea, I think, is to train people for certain trades. T think there necessarily must be there a certain amount of overlapping with the University, because the University's object is to train men who are going to organize business, whereas in the technical schools you might quite well train people who are not going to be the heads of a big shop, for example. But beforehand you cannot say whether a man is going to be the head of a big shop or not. Ido not see that you can prevent a certain amount of overlapping of that kind. The saving I had in mind was more in this respect : in drawing up plans for new buildings at, say, Wellington College, there seems
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to be no reason why the buildings should not be used for technical classes. 1 do not see whythere should be a separate chemical laboratory at the Technical School, the Girls' College, the Boys' College, and the University. It might be possible, by bringing some of those laboratories under the same roof, to save a good deal of money. 36. The Chairman.} We are to understand from you that in your judgment the vocational course should be taken cither in the technical school or in the secondary school—l mean, those courses that have regard to the future life of the pupil?—l should not take that to mean that there should be no training of that character at all in the primary schools. 37. That is what 1 want to get from you: did you intend us to understand that?— No. Wherever vocational courses are provided in the primary school, it would not be with the object of equipping a man for that particular walk in life; it would be using that particular course as an aid to general development —as an instrument of general development. 38. Mr. Kirk.] I think you said that our school system below the University should be in closer touch with the University? —My point was that the University, owing to its methods, was having a detrimental effect upon the secondary schools. 39. Where should we start? —You will never get the system satisfactorily reformed as long as the University is sending out teachers with certain ideas, and as long as the University, by its means of examination, is—viciously, 1 think—reacting on the secondary schools. 40. Mr. Davidson.} Do you think that under present conditions the student in our training colleges pays more attention to his University work- takes a greater interest in it, and is more anxious about passing the examinations there —than his ordinary practical work as a teacher? —I have no knowledge, except indirect knowledge, of what interest he takes in his practical work as a teacher, but I think that under present conditions that cannot be the case, unless the Principals of the training colleges are to blame, because under the present conditions 1 think the Principals of the training colleges use the University classes as a means of deciding whether they will award a certificate to a student of the training college; but. obviously the Principal would not stress the University work more than he stresses his own work. 41. It is not so much the point of view of the Principal as of the student himself : is he more anxious to obtain his University degree than he is to obtain practice in his profession as a teacher? —You are not referring to those who get their certificate from the Principal of the training college, but to those who go up for the degree? f am not in a position to answer that question, because f do not know of his interest. 42. .Speaking of the staffing of our schools partly by pupil-teachers, do you know that the pupil-teacher is gradually disappearing, and that when the new scheme is brought into full operation he will no longer form part of the staff? —I understood that was the case. 43. His place is being taken by probationers, who are not to form any part of the staff, but are really to be constantly under the supervision of experienced teachers—they are not to have charge of a class. Do you think that that system is a marked improvement on the old pupil-teacher system ? —Undoubtedly. 44. Do you think that such students, after acting for two years as probationers, would be in a better position to take advantage of the work at the training college than if they entered the training college without any previous experience of controlling or teaching in the primary schools? —I should undoubtedly say they were, if they were under a good teacher. 45. What effect, in your opinion, mentally and physically, has the preparation for University Junior Scholarships upon girls? —I think it is wholly pernicious. 46. Mr. Pirani.] You said you believed that Inspectors must belong to the Central Department : what do you mean by "the Central Department " ?—The Education Department. 47. You said that one reason was that the Boards were not competent to appoint the Inspectors. Do you think that those who appoint the Education Department are competent to appoint those who appoint Inspectors?—l think I said that I agree with fhe principle of a Council of Education. 48. You believe in the Inspectors being appointed by the central authority provided it is a Council of Education?—l am not saying that I would not agree to their being appointed by the Central Department even if there were no Council of Education. I think I would prefer it to be done by the Council. 49. For standing, for ability—oil any single point—would you compare those Inspectors that have been appointed by the Central Department—l exclude the Inspector-General—with the men we have as Chief Inspectors in the Dominion? —I am not in a position to compare the men. 50. You said that Education Boards are not competent to appoint Inspectors : would you compare the Chief Inspectors of the Education Boards with the men the Department have appointed as Inspectors? Take, for instance, Mulgan, or Braik, or Foster: would you compare either of those with any Inspector in the Head Department?—l would require to know the comparative salaries. That would probably be a factor in determining what sort of men would apply. As I say, lam not in a position to judge these men. 51. But you are judging by casting a reflection on the men who have been appointed by the Education Boards? —I did not pass any reflection on them. I say that as the Education Boards are elected at the present time I do not believe they are competent to appoint Inspectors. 52. Do you not think it is fair to judge by results?—l have no doubt I could judge by results if I wanted to. ■ 53. But have you the personal knowledge of the men who have been appointed to enable you to judge? —Not of all the men. 54. So that when you make that statement you are only speaking from theory and not from personal knowledge of what has happened? —I am speaking on the general principle that if you want to get the best man appointed for any particular post you must have men on the appointing
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body who understand. Any one who cares to read President Elliot's book on university administration will see that laid down clearly. 55. Do you think that the best judge of a man is one who simply has educational qualifications?—No, but J think you want, an Inspector to put the position before the Education Board. The Education Board makes the appointment. I understand that the Education Board does not decide which teacher shall get a post, but leaves that to the Inspectors. That is what I want done with the Inspectors. 56. Do you not know that one objection to the Central Department being allowed the appointment of fnspectors is that they have not, shown by the Inspectors they have appointed that they are any more competent than the Education Boards? —Then I should say we want to start further back and reorganize our Education Department. 57. Given a perfect Education Department or Central Education Council —whichever is the more perfect—then 1 suppose I may say that you believe there would be no danger in giving that body the power of appointment?—l am laying down principles. 58. lam dealing with facts?—l know that, but the point I make is this : when you have got an Education Department, if the fundamental appointments go wrong your system is bound to go wrong; but what you do as reasonable men is to take all the possible safeguards you can to prevent that happening, and it, seems to me the way to do that is to have expert opinion on the men and for the lay body to follow that expert opinion, unless there is obviously 7 some reason why it should not. 59. If the Education Department have not gone outside the ranks of the Assistant Inspectors of the Boards —except in one case —when making their appointments, does it not strike voir that the Educatiou Boards have been competent? —It may be or it may not. It may be that in choosing a man for an inspectorship the fact that he has had experience in actual work of inspecting is a very important point. 60. Is it not a fact that the Department's Inspectors are only appointed to inspect secondary and technical schools? —I believe that is so. 61. The best Inspectors appointed for secondary schools and technical schools in New Zealand should have had experience as primary-school Inspectors, should they not? —I. do not think it necessarily follows at all. 62. Then you disagree with the Department, because they made all those appointments from Inspectors of primary schools? —I understand that those were new appointments; before that there were no Inspectors of secondary schools. lam not defending the Department. 63. I want to know which has done the better? —I am not in a position to tell you. 64. Do you think it would be a wise step to appoint women to inspect secondary schools? — 1 have no objection to it. i have not thought about it at all. 65. Do you think it reflects on the wisdom, of the Department that they have not seen fit to appoint a woman as secondary Inspector, seeing that there are women in New Zealand who are competent for the position ? —I have not thought about the question of appointing women Inspectors in the secondary schools. 66. Do you not think that a woman of high educational standing and with all the other qualities necessary for an Inspector is better able to inspect the work in the girls' colleges than a man? —Not better than a man. She may do it as well. 67. How would you say that a Central Council of Education ought to be selected—would you say by popular vote?—ln regard to those elections 1 should be inclined to set up what has been set tip in the Queensland University, and, I think, the University of Western Australia—namely, an electoral body 7 . The interests are represented on the electoral body, and the electoral body make the appointment. 68. Something after the same system as the School Committees appointing the Education Boards?— Yes, but I should not like it to be thought I agreed with that system. 69. The Chairman.] Would you not give the Government of the country, which finds the money, some right of appointment in respect to its Inspector-General and its Chief Inspectors of the various branches of education? Must not, those experts receive representation?—My idea is that this Council would act with the Department, not in any way against it. 70. We have not thought of a Council plus the Department : the Council would absorb the Department? —I. had not thought of tlfat. Tdo not think. lam in favour of the Council absorbing the Department. 71. Mr. Pirani.] You said in your evidence that teachers ought to receive a, training comparable with that of lawyers. Do you think teachers do not get a, training comparable with that of lawyers in New Zealand? —I meant to stress medical men. I. am not satisfied with the training that medical men get here either. It is only the medical and legal professions I have in mind. 72. You said .that the syllabus has been misinterpreted by some Inspectors : could you give us the districts or the names of any Inspectors who have misinterpreted the syllabus?—l think the syllabus had been misinterpreted in the Otago District. 73. There have been several conferences of Inspectors, presided over by Mr. Hogben, and I presume Mr. Hogben is competent to explain his syllabus to those Inspectors. Do you not think that ought to be sufficient to ensure that the syllabus is properly interpreted?—No, because my whole point is that under that system there is no responsibility; there is no reason why these Inspectors should carry out the syllabus. They are supreme within their own district regarding what the teachers have to teach. My idea is that there should be as far as possible a uniform reading of the syllabus right through the Dominion by 7 having a Dominion inspectorate. 74. Are you satisfied that the students at the training college are sufficiently trained as teachers in the two years they spend at the training college? —No; 1 suggested that the period should be longer.
T. A. H.UNTBB.]
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75. Do you not think that one of the greatest defects of the training colleges is the absence of training in individual control of classes? —I am not sufficiently aware of what really goes on in the training colleges to say. I think that is a very important aspect of their training; whether they get it or not I am not prepared to say 7. 76. Comparing the old pupil-teacher system with the present system, do you not think that pupil-teachers, in a hard school, got probably a good grasp of the control of classes?—A good deal depended on the pupil-teacher. When I was speaking about the defects of the pupil-teacher system T was not thinking only of the effect upon the pupil-teacher himself; but it has a bad effect on the classes. 77. One of the Principals of a training college is also a lecturer at the University, and he is paid by the fees : do you not think that that system is likely to have a tendency to induce him to send his students to the University when it would be better for them not to go?—I should not like to say that; but, personally, I object to the payment of any lecturer by fees at all. 78. Mr. Hogben?, You said that one of the ways in which the freedom of the teacher was interfered with was that he was paid by average attendance. You mean, I suppose, that schools are graded on average attendance? —Yes. 79. Would you grade them in any other way than according to their size? —I think schools should not be graded according to the number of pupils who attend. That number may vary— vary suddenly. I know that in cases of illness you take some quarter a little way back, and try to meet the difficulty in that way. But it seems to me that the schools should be graded according to their importance, without necessarily being wholly dependent upon average attendance. 80. Do y 7 ou know how long it takes a school to lose its grade now?—A quarter, is it not? 81. No, three years: did you know that? —No. 82. Do you know how long after that it takes before a teacher loses his grade in salary?— No. 83. Two years: did you know that?— No. 84. It takes five years before his salary is cut down?—l should be quite satisfied with that. Tt was my ignorance that led me to say what I did on that point. 85. You spoke of psychology being one of the subjects for Class C examination?— Yes. 86. There is, is there not, some psychology in the subject " education," which is compulsory for Class C examination? —Yes, there is some in C. 87. To a certain extent there could be practical observations of that conducted in the training colleges, could there not? —Undoubtedly. 88. Do you think if should be practically treated beyond that again in the course given in the University College?— Yes. 89. You do not propose that the training colleges should take up a systematic course of psychology, practically treated, apart from the University College, do you?—No, not as psychology, but I should expect to sec them attack the experimental side of pedagogy. As far as the training college is concerned it would do the experimental work in pedagogy. 90. You said that the Department might accept the University College certificates. Do you know that in the training teacher's certificate that is now being issued on the recommendation of the Principal of the training college every complete University College course, certified to have been satisfactorily attended, is accepted now? Does that meet what you want? —Yes. 91. With regard to free places in secondary schools, are you aware that the average stay of a secondary-school pupil at a secondary school is now half a year longer than it was before the introduction of free places?—No, I was not aware of it. The remarks T made on that head referred to hit own experience. I was not speaking about the present. 92. You would not give them an unconditioned term of five years or six years, .would you —I mean the free-place people? —No. The idea I had was that when they went into the secondary school if they were worthy of it they might stay a full four years at least. Tf they are not worthy the sooner they are turned out the better. 93. You know that in various parts of the world they have recognized what they call a shorter secondary course of two or three years —three years for preference?— Yes. 94. Would not that, be a good point at which to determine whether they were fit to go on for another two or three years?—l think that would depend very largely on the course that was adopted by the student. There are'some courses that would lie dropped earlier; others it would be wasteful to drop earlier. There are some students that come who should not take up courses at all. 95. Is that the effect of our senior-free-place system now?— Under the old free-place regulations a very large number of students came into the secondary schools who stayed not more than a year. What percentage do that now is a, thing to be determined, and it seems to me that for those people to come is a waste from the point of view of the State. 96. The point I was making is that a less number leave now than was the case before?—T quite believe that. 97. If it is less than it, was before, does that indicate that the effect of the free-place system has not been good? —I am in favour of the free-place system, but I think that waste may be induced if people go to secondary schools who are simply using the privilege as a kind of restingplace for the time being. 98. If we can show that the effect of the free-place system is that the pupils are staying longer at the secondary school, to that extent we have shown something good, have we not? —T am not dealing with that. Tarn dealing with the question whether there are not people admitted to the free places who ought not to be there. 99. How do you propose to find that out —before they go there?—l think that determination merely by an examination is not a good method, I think we should probably get very much
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better results if we allowed the heads of accredited primary schools to help the Department in that respect. 100. That is, on a sort of proficiency certificate? —Yes. 101. Are not those the ones who are now accused of being unfit?— Then you want some radical alterations in the headmasters of the primary schools. My whole point is that I should like to fasten the responsibility on to somebody. The whole principle throughout the education system, it seems to me, is that there is an absence of pressing home the responsibility on people, and the examination is largely used as a method of evading responsibility. 102. You do not know all the facts in connection with free places at the present time, so that it is not quite lair to ask you what the present effect is?— No. 103. Mr. Kirk.] Tn connection with those secondary schools which have as part of their establishment a boardinghouse, do you consider it a good system that the fees paid by pupils for the boarding should be paid direct to the headmaster, or do you think they should be paid to the Board of Governors?—Tf is very doubtful matter, T think, which is the better policy. The running of a boarding-school is a very responsible work. It is work which, if it is not very well done, would be better not done at all, and \ am not prepared to say in that case that it is not a good system to pay the fees to the master. It is altogether divorced from his ordinary teaching work. This question arises out of what I said in regard to the pay 7 ment of fees in answer to Mr. Pirani. It seems to me that the position is different in a University College. In that case it is a bad principle to pay the teacher by the number of students who attend his classes. Tt raises a difficulty, for example, when he is asked the place his particular subiect should occupy in a course. That is not unknown in the University 7 . 104. If you get a good man at the school it will follow that the boarding establishment will be a highly remunerative business for him ?—Yes. 105. Tf a good teacher is obtained for the school who may not be so good with respect to the boarding establishment, might there be a possibility that the children will be neglected in the way of their food, and so on, if the teacher is setting the fees and is there to make as much money as he can ?—I do not think there is any danger of that at all. 106. The Chairman.} As a matter of principle, T understand you to say you disapprove of the payment of fees, and that the person should have a fixed salary?—T am not prepared to say that in regard to boarding-schools. 107. T am not referring to boarding-schools: I am referring to the educational ladder, from top to bottom? —I am certainly of that opinion. 108. Touching the training college and trainees, do you think it is desirable thftt there should be a faculty appointed, of whom the Principal should be one, to determine, at some stage of the trainee's course in the college, whether he or she is fit to go right through, and, if unfitness is ascertained, recommend that person to try some other walk of life?— Undoubtedly. 109. Mr. Pirani.] You arc acquainted with the scheme for promotion and classification of teachers in the Wanganui District?— Yes. 110. Does that meet what voir suggested in regard to the appointment of teachers? —I think the general principle there is practically the same. • David Anderson Strachan further examined. (No. 183.) 1. Mr. Wells.] You spoke of the advisability of the Education Department issuing a monthly Gazette —at least you spoke of the need for such a Gazette: do you not think that that might be issued in connection with the existing Journal of Education? —Tt would practically take the place of that. 2. With regard to promotion, do you seriously suggest that the present departmental grading affords a satisfactory basis for promotion?— Yes. I feel satisfied that of all the schemes I have seen none is equal to it in simplicity. T took the four main headings. You are classified, we will say, Dl. To get the D certificate you must have a certain educational qualification. 3. But how many Dl men have you in your district, roughly?— There might be about eight or ten. 4. Are those ten men all equal?—My idea was that it would be open for all the Dls of the Dominion, and I said that when equal seniority might count. 5. You are going to place all the Dl men on an equality? —No. When they come to be on an equality take the one who got his Dl first. 6. That is, in making an appointment you would consider all the Dl men available, and you would give the appointment to the one with the longest service? —T presume they would be classified on the register. 7. Have you never heard of a Dl man who has become exceedingly lazy or careless, and can you not imagine a much younger Dl man who is infinitely more efficient? —Very often a Dl man has become careless and inefficient through, our inefficient methods of promotion. 8. You would consider an Al man necessarily a long way ahead of a Dl man?—l am just taking the scheme as T find it. I presume that the Al man has, at any rate, covered a much wider field of human knowledge. Probably by virtue of the fact that he is an Al man he will be able to deal with subjects that the other man cannot. 9. Have you never met with an Al man who is a far less efficient teacher than some Dl men?— Let me put the reply to that in my own way. Supposing you got Inspectors in different districts putting their own opinion of the men down and promoting them on their own opinion : they may never have met some of the applicants from other districts who hold similar certificates, and they go on personal predilection, more or less. T want to have a, scheme that will remove the teacher as far as possible from being appointed on the mere personal knowledge of the Inspector, and to let each teacher feel right throughout the Dominion that he has a chance.
D. A. STRACHAN.]
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10. Have you any knowledge how the grading schemes at present in operation in Auckland arid Wanganui are worked? —The matter has been debated at the Inspectors' conference. I understand there are schemes there and in Taranaki. 11. Are you aware that the scheme has given general satisfaction wherever it has been tried? —It may give satisfaction to the teachers of that district. But these schemes are not Dominion schemes. The great trouble with the teachers from end to end of the Dominion to-day is, I believe, the uncertainty of promotion. If you have those different district schemes they tend more or less to stand in the way of universal promotion. 12. Do you not think they would rather afford a ready basis for comparison?— They do not necessarily grade on the same basis. One Board will attach a great deal of weight in its scheme to attention to environment, and another will regard as of great importance personality—whatever that means. It depends on what the idea carries to the Inspector who draws up the scheme. My idea is that when a person has attained Al that must ipso facto carry with it that he is a first-class teacher. 13. Or that he may have been so at one time?— That is'where I say merit can come in. If there is another man who is in the same class and is energetic he can, by getting another certificate, step past the other, and so go higher up the ladder. 14. Supposing that under 3 7 our scheme a man becomes Dl, will he not know that promotion will come to him in turn by length of service, and will there not, consequently, be less incentive to continue to improve?—l think it would be quite the reverse. Knowing that his length of service would count would put a good deal more heart into him. After all, Dls are not so very numerous on the Department's list. 1.5. You mentioned that a training college was of very little use to your district : do you not think that a very strong argument for larger districts? —No, what I said was this : we have a tremendous number of small schools, in which we can never at any time under any system expect to have well-trained or even ordinarily-certificated teachers, because the salaries would be no inducement whatever. Out of over eighty schools some forty-odd are Grade 0. 16. Do you not think that if Marlborough were part of a larger district there would be a greater chance of securing better talent in the teaching profession ?—Not if there is a universal system of promotion. 17. Have you any school of the top grade in your district? —We have what you can call a typical school of every grade. 18. Grade 9?— The highest one is Ba, but there is no difference in actual organization. 19. But is there not a, difference in regard to salary?—lt makes a great difference in that way ; but if you have a universal scheme, which I hope the Commission will evolve, there will not be any particular necessity to alter this. What seems important in Marlborough's case is that there should be a Board with some local knowledge. T believe that the Marlborough Board originally got. the Department to recognize the very small school, and it was due to the fact that the Sounds are of such a peculiar nature; there is no passing the children from one bay to the next. 20. The fact remains that there are no schools in your district of the highest grade, and that under present conditions there must be a tendency for your best men to try to leave the district?—lt is not unnatural. They apply where there is a chance. A district of the size could not possibly retain them under any system, because we do not have the number of schools for them: 21. Mr. Davidson.] You spoke of training twenty-one teachers in singing under a special teacher—a half-hour lesson per day for five days —that is to say, the teacher gave two hours and a.half, and the total capitation amounted to something like 6s. 6fd. I —Yes. 22. Did your Board get any special grant at all for the training of teachers? —Oh, yes. 1 am just showing you how the capitation system for continuation classes in general would work out, because that was a special case that came under it. I was not intending to emphasize the fact that those were teachers, although, as a matter of fact, they were, and it was a very important class. 23. This was a teachers' training class? —Yes. 24. Did the teacher who took those half-hour lessons for five days in the week receive only the 6s. 6d., or did you give him a portion of the grant that was paid to the Board by the Department for that special purpose?—lt \Vas very fortunate for him that there did happen to be a grant. He is our teacher employed to teach the uncertificated teachers, and he gets the full amount given by the Department to our district —£60. There was no hardship in that particular case. 25. Supposing you have the choice between two teachers—we will say women teachers—one holding a 03 certificate and the other an El, which of these would you choose for infant-room work?— Every system will have certain defects. Personally, I would take the El woman, and most likely on seniority she would get the choice. They would be equal under the departmental classification. 26. Do you think the present payment to Inspectors throughout the Dominion is on a satisfactory basis? —It seems to me that it is the one respect in which there is a want of system—l mean the paying of salaries, and especially of allowances. 27. Then you think it is not on a satisfactorj 7 basis?—l think it is not. 28. If there is a Dominion scale of salaries for teachers do you not think there ought naturally to be a. Dominion scale of salaries for Inspectors?—l think so, and fail to see any reason why it should be difficult to arrange. 29. Tf the inspectorate were placed under the Department, do you not think the classification of teachers would be more satisfactory and the bringing-about of a Dominion system of promotion made easier?— The Inspector who knew would award the marks under the system —it would
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probably come to the same thing. There may be certain benefits in having the inspectorate centralized, but there are some benefits, I think, in having local bodies. 30. You could have them and still have the inspectorate centralized? —It is a matter on which I have not formed a definite opinion. - 31. Do you think it is in the interests of education or of the man himself that an Inspector should be placed in a small district where he is working alone, and left there for a lifetime? —I think that is rather a weakness of the present system. 32. Then if the Dominion were divided into inspectorial districts and the inspectorate placed under the Department would that evil not disappear?— Yes. 33. From that point of view you think it would be an advantage to have the inspectorate under the Central Department? —Certainly. 34. You spoke of the desirability of having spelling-lists in the School Journal? —Yes. 35. It has been stated that one of the best features of that Journal is that it is entirely unlike the ordinary reading-book that has at the head of each lesson spelling-lists and at the end of the lesson spellings and meanings. What do you think of that? —If you make a change in one direction there may be changes in other directions in consequence. If spelling-lists appeared in the Journal the ordinary reading-book could disappear and continuous readers take its place, and they would become, as you say, different from the present ones. They would have the virtues that you now attribute to the School Journal. 36. Do you think it is better that the School Journal should really be, as it .were, an extract from a miscellaneous reader than that it should be in the form of a magazine?—l rather like the School Journal as it is. The addition of spelling-lists would, T think, be an improvement. There are spelling-lists in the Victorian one. 37. Has any one of the Australasian school papers, except the Victorian one, these lists of spellings and meanings?—No; but, as I say, the virtue of the School Journal without the lists is that it is a sort of continuous reader —you can read it, as if it were not a school-book. If you put the spellings in it the children can take it home, and there is no trouble about keeping these Journals in school. There is no trouble about infection and things like that. And, as for readers, continuous readers should be kept in school, and there would be no trouble there. 38. Do you think the children would be as likely to read the School Journal with interest if its character as a magazine were destroyed?—l am not concerned with the School Journal so much ; I want to add interest to the other reading-books in place of any possible loss of interest in the School Journal through having the spelling-lists. 39. Mr, Hogben.] You said that the Department's allowance of floor-space was 10 square feet per pupil: is it not 12 square feet per pupil?—l understood it was only 10 square feet. The point is whether it is average attendance or roll. 40. It is average attendance?— You need to have desk-room for the roll number. I understand that 10 square feet per pupil on the roll amounts, roughly, to 12 square feet on the average attendance. 41. You said that in the State of Maine 20 square feet per pupil is allowed : on what?—l had a pamphlet sent me by the Superintendent of Schools in Maine, in which it was represented that 20 square feet was the average floor-space allowed. 42. That included portico and passage-room, did it not?—l do not remember that it mentioned anything like that. I know that under the Department's system there is not enough floorspace for the children conveniently to pass out in front for blackboard work. 43. Supposing you have a class of forty-five pupils, what is the maximum distance you can put them away from the light or the blackboard?—l know there is a distance computed by opticians. 44. You would not put them further away than 24ft., would you?—T suppose that is the distance. 45. Supposing j-ou put them 24 ft. away as a maximum, and you wanted to give 20 square feet per pupil, that would make 900 square feet. How long would you then have to make the room?—As a rule you have the rooms in the proportion of something like 4 by 7 5. 46. Is not 37J ft. one-twenty-fourth of 900 square feet? Would it be possible to supply the conditions with 24 ft. ?—You might have skylights. 47. Are you aware that all the regulations are against skylights in every part of the world?— I know there are schools with skylights in more than one district in New Zealand. Subsequently the witness forwarded the following statement to be added to his evidence : A discussion arose yesterday as to the number of square feet of floor-space that could be allowed in a school without rendering the room unhygienic. I suggested the 20 square feet allowed by the State of Maine instead of the 10 square feet allowed by the Department. Mr. Hogben said the Department allowed 12 square feet on the average roll. To show that an allowance of 20 square feet would produce a room of unhygienic dimensions he assumed a class of forty-five. T presume that would be an average roll, and in that case would refer to a class in a larger school. 20 (sq. ft.) x 45 (roll) = 900 square feet. A room to be hygienic must not be too long, and must not exceed 24ft. in breadth. 900 (sq. ft.) -I- 24 (ft.) - 37i (ft.). Such a room would, as Mr. Hogben suggested, be too long. Now, the schools I had in view were sole-teacher schools, which have at most an average of thirty-six, and two-teacher schools of eighty in two rooms. In these schools the standards are frequently interspersed with one another, and are brought out to the floor for special lessons. This makes demands on the floor-space—demands that are not required in a larger school, where each room is occupied by a single standard, and where, moreover, owing to the larger number of children, the floor-space on the Department's allowance is usually sufficient. In the case of the small schools referred to the extra floor-snace could be allowed without rendering the room of unhy 7 gienic dimensions — e.g., 36 (roll) x 20 (sq. ft.) — 720 (sq. ft.) -
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24 (ft.) x 30 (ft.); 40 (roll) x 20 (sq. ft.) = 800 (sq. ft.) = 24 (ft.) x (ft.). . The following extract from a pamphlet sent to me by the Superintendent of Schools for the State of Maine shows that 20 ft. of floor-space per child is his recommendation for the schoolroom, exclusive of lobbies, cloak-room, &c. The pamphlet is dated 1904. "Schoolrooms should be from 2-3 to 3-4 as wide as they are long. The length should not exceed 30 ft., a few feet less being preferable. The height of the schoolroom should be more than lift, and less than I.4ft. The floorspace must be of such size as will give to each child not less than 20 square feet. If the schoolroom is 30 ft. long, 20 ft. wide, and 12 ft. high, it will contain 7,200 cubic feet of air-space. If there are thirty pupils in attendance the room will provide 240 cubic feet of air-space for each child. This is the minimum limit. No schoolroom should furnish a smaller air-space for its pupils." (Note. —30 ft. x 20 ft. for thirty pupils = 20 square feet per child in the actual teaching-room.) Thomas Howell Laby examined on affirmation. (No. 184.) 1. The Chairman.] What is your position?—l am Professor of Physics at Victoria College, Wellington, and have held that appointment for three years. Before that I was Demonstrator in the Sydney University, and a student at the Cavendish Laboratory, Cambridge. I am a Bachelor of Arts by research of Cambridge. 2. Have you any statement to offer in regard to the subject-matter of our inquiry?—l wish to say that I have not been able to give the evidence that I am about to offer the attention that the matters into which you are inquiring deserves, owing to the pressure of other work, and so I have some hesitation in coming before you. But I have been asked to do so. The remarks 1 shall make will refer mainly and have application mainly to technical education. The first point 1 would refer to is the lack of co-ordination and the overlapping in the educational system. There exists in our educational system, especially in technical instruction, some overlapping and want of co-ordination. The effect of this is very harmful, and I think it has not been sufficiently realized how important it is for us in New Zealand to avoid every form of extravagance and to make every possible economy. There is limit to what any State can spend on education, and though New Zealand is exceptionally rich and prosperous for its size we must at the same time never forget we are a small State, and are endeavouring to have a system of primary, secondary, technical, and university education more accessible and more pretentious than that existing in many States much larger than we are. The outstanding feature in. the higher parts of our system is that excellence has been sacrificed to accessibility, the appearance to the reality. The quality of our education has not received due attention. In endeavouring to make our educational facilities very accessible the quality of them has been sacrificed. This especially is true of technical education. This has arisen because it is the business or interest of many to see that facilities are increased, but there are few who can point out with authority- who will be listened to that the reality has been sacrificed to appearance. I can give an illustration of what I mean in the instruction of agriculture. It will be admitted by every one that it is of all technical teaching the most important to New Zealand. Yet the teaching of it cannot be well done, as there is no place where teachers of agriculture can receive an adequate training. Mr. W. S. La Trobe, Director of the Wellington Technical School, said yesterday: "The University Colleges, as at present constituted, were largely technical and continuation eveningschools. The establishment of evening classes in the University Colleges for students who were employed during the day in earning a livelihood, or mastering the ordinary practice of their profession, was a distinct encroachment on the legitimate field of technical-school work. The intrusion of the University- into matters outside its own sphere had had bad effects both on the University and on the technical-education system." That the North Island University Colleges have, by continuing their work to the evening, lowered the standard of their work is only too clear. The remedy is to establish day university classes in addition to the evening, and not to leave the advanced evening teaching of science to the technical colleges. There is an urgent need for the spheres of the technical and university colleges to be defined, and their work co-ordinated. On the question of the overlapping of technical education I, would draw the attention of the Commission to the following cases. Take, for example, the teaching of civil, mechanical, and electrical engineering. In the report on manual and technical education for 1911 you will find, on page 21, a table where this group of subjects is taught. When a subject is defined as " civil, mechanical, and electrical engineering," if the terni as used there is correct, then it implies a certain minimum in the comprehensiveness of the treatment. In looking down the table we find there are two institutions in Auckland that teach this subject—the Technical School and the University College. It is taught also in Wanganui, Palmerston North, Wellington Technical School, Petone, Napier, Nelson, Westport, Greymouth, Christchurch at the Ujiiversity and Christchurch at the Technical School, and Dunedin. In the table both in Auckland and in Christchurch there are two bodies both teaching the same subjects—in Auckland the University College and the Technical School, and in Christchurch the University EngineeringSchool, -which has an income of some £7,000 a year, and the Technical School. I understand in the particular case I mention in Auckland there is teaching in electrical engineering both at the University College and at the Technical School. That it exists at the University I have the evidence of the University calendar ; that it exists at the Technical School I am relying on a report in the newspapers recently that it was going to take the course. That the overlapping exists at Christchurch I am not so certain, but I, take it that this table implies that one of the subjects taught at the Christchurch Technical School is civil, mechanical, or electrical engineering, and these subjects are all taught at the University- College. Then you have it taught both at Wanganui, Wellington, and so on. Another example of overlapping in science-teaching of a kindred kind exists between the training colleges and the University Colleges, both of which
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in some of their work teach science at the same standard in different laboratories in the same town. That goes on to some extent in Wellington and to some extent in the other University centres, I understand. 1 also wish to refer to the question of the training of teachers of science and technical subjects, if you examine the syllabus of the Wellington Technical School, which is not unlike other schools, you will see that a very wide range of subjects is taught at that school. There are the various arts and crafts subjects. 1 shall not refer to these handicraft subjects, but turn at once to engineering. You find that there are six engineering subjects taught at the Technical School, besides a long list of science subjects. In pure and applied science teachers are needed not only for the technical schools, but also for the Lincoln Agricultural College, the training colleges, and secondary schools. A supply of science teachers has to be forthcoming for these institutions. I wish to bring under the attention of the Commission how difficult it is to discover where these teachers are being trained. They are certainly not being trained at the University Colleges. As far as the Wellington University District is concerned I can speak from observation, because if they were they would pass through my hands, as my particular subject is a compulsory science subject in the training for the B.Sc. degree, and beyond that 1 have had the experience of people writing to me for teachers and being unable to recommend any one for the positions offering. 1 think, if you refer to the University calendar for 1910, you will find there were eight graduates in science, and when you remember all the technical schools there are in the Dominion I do not think eight graduates are sufficient to man them. Thus there is evidence of a very inadequate supply of properly trained science teachers who can undertake the technical teaching that is required in the schools and colleges 1 have mentioned. This inadequacy of supply is largely due, of course, to the very poor salaries paid in the teaching profession. The salaries which are paid, especially to the science masters, are quite inadequate to attract teachers of the ability that is essential, and this must have a very adverse effect on all our technical instruction. I do not think it is necessary for me to go into the matter further than to merely point out to you that the University Colleges are certainly not training them, and it is difficult to see how technical and science teaching can be properly done unless you have trained teachers forthcoming. There may be sources of supply which 1 have overlooked. I think there is very serious overexamination throughout the whole educational system. Certain rooms at Victoria College are in continuous use for some months during the vacation for examinations. Many of the candidates at these examinations are of very tender years. A photograph was taken recently of a number of the children playing on the tennis-court, and some of them could just be seen over the tennis-net. I think children of that age are far too young to be taken away from their ordinary surroundings and subjected to the formidable task of a written examination. 1 desire, in condemning the excessive examination, not to be misunderstood. The written examination has a proper function in education. It enables a teacher to ascertain mistakes in his teaching, and to find what matters are not understood in his exposition of a subject. Further, pupils are induced to commit to memory data which they would not otherwise learn, and they are stimulated in their work. But with us excessive examination has corrupted our educational system. The formal examination of young children is educationally thoroughly unsound. In most of our examinations the teacher has no part, and so the examinations are external examinations. As to such examinations I would quote the principles laid down by Professor J. T. Wilson, F.R.S., of the University of Sydney —namely, " The idea of a special virtue attaching to a purely external ' impartial ' examination is one which no one really and personally familiarized with the essential limitations of examining-work would for a moment entertain. The whole trend of present opinion, as I understand it, upon this question is in the direction of assigning to examinations a distinctly secondary place, and towards the substitution, as far as practicable, of the intimate and expert judgment of the teaching stafi upon the whole quality of the work of the students in a department. Uniformity of teaching, so far from being an end to be aimed at, is not even in itself desirable. The capabilities of no teacher can be exploited to their full value unless he is at liberty to develop his teaching along individual lines. Even if the lines of his teaching should be inferior to others, his students will gain far more by his personal firsthand treatment of his subject than from his forced adherence to a syllabus with which he is not in sympathy. Paradoxical as it may seem, the contrary view seems to me to overrate the importance of the contribution of the teacher to the pupil's intellectual development." A particularly bad example of external examination with us is the use of the City and Guilds of London Institute and Board of Education Science and Art Examinations. Either the teachers of the subjects of these examinations are competent for the high work of teaching or they are not. If they are competent to teach then they are competent to examine. If they are not competent to teach then these examinations only help to conceal the fact. This Commission can do no better work than to endeavour to substitute better ideals in our educational system than success at examinations. There are two matters more I would like to draw the attention of the Commission to. I wish to support the idea of a Council of Education. I think it is very desirable a Council of Education with advisory powers should be set up. It should be a small body, and should consist of experts competent to advise on all matters relating to primary, secondary, and technical education, but not university education, as that is arranged for otherwise. I think it is very desirable this Council should be as small as possible, and that if possible it should not be elective by large bodies of electors. Many of the elective bodies we have now in education are elected on altogether a bad basis. As to agricultural training, I have referred already to the need for a training-school for teachers of agriculture. This is possibly a subject outside your order of reference, but I would draw your attention to the very great need that exists for some school where teachers of agriculture could be trained. I do not think we have any such school. I have instanced the Lincoln Agricultural College, but I do not think that is adequately staffed to do that work properly. In a community such as this, where the largest
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and outstanding industry is agriculture, it is most essential we should have some place in which teachers of agriculture can be adequately trained, so that these teachers cau go out and instruct in the primary, secondary, and technical schools. 1 would point out what a great, relief the primary curriculum would receive if the metric system of weights and measures were introduced into New Zealand. I know the great difficulties that are in the way. At the present time every one is advocating new subjects of education, and 1 think this is a direction in which the curriculum may be relieved, because the amount of time which has to be spent in teaching arithmetic would be very considerably reduced if the community were using the metric system of weights and measures. Here the metric system of weights and measures has not received the attention that it has in other countries, and the system is very much simpler than it is generally supposed to be. I would like, too, to refer to the Education Department syllabus for the various A, B, C, and D certificates. The Education Department has recently introduced, to my mind, some considerable improvements in the syllabus in physics, and 1 would urge upon the Commission the desirability of the same improvements being extended to other parts of the syllabus where it relates to physical subjects. 1 think it is for the C certificate that physics, which is the subject 1 teach at Victoria College, is divided into two parts —heat and light, and electricity. It is verydesirable in the elementary teaching of science to make it as little specialized as possible, otherwise it becomes largely a subject which is taught for the usefulness of the knowledge which it imparts instead of being taught as a discipline of the mind, i believe it is more in intellectual discipline that its value exists than in merely the facts that it teaches. The only thing educationists can do generally when they are doing vocational teaching is to give people correct methods of thought, and f think, by making the physics syllabus deal wherever possible with the whole subject of physics, that this is attained better than by dividing it up in special branches. This principle should be extended to the A certificate, because in that certificate the teacher is allowed to qualify through the University examination; and, unfortunately, the Universitydivides the subject into two parts, and therefore the Department divides it too. 3. Mr. Wells.] You spoke of overlapping, and you instanced the courses of engineering at the technical school and University- College : can you say of your own knowledge that anything approaching the same standard of work is done at both places ? —At the University they do what I think is very wrong in university work; they teach students who have not passed any entrance examination. I am informed that is so. Therefore they admit students less well prepared than they would otherwise admit, and, so far as I can ascertain, they are directly competing with the technical school. 4. Would you debar any one from attending university work who has not matriculated ?— Most certainly 7 . I would not debar them if they had not matriculated, but 1 would debar them from attending lectures in a subject which I shall call " A " if they had not passed the entrance examination in subject "A." 1 would not allow students to attend lectures who were not capable of understanding the lectures —who were not up to the University standard. 5. You mean you would have an entrance examination in each subject?— The entrance examination essential to a student to understand the engineering course is mathematics, and I would require him to pass in that. 6. Still, referring to this particular work at Auckland, do you know that the work that the University is undertaking is very much in advance of that which the technical school is undertaking?— The work is not of the ordinary University standard; it is below it. 7. Are you quite sure of that?— The teachers at Auckland have admitted that to me. A recently appointed teacher admitted that to me. There is also overlapping between the University Colleges in Auckland and Christchurch. 8. Do you think it is possible to send down from Auckland to Christchurch all the students who wish to take an engineering course? —I think that should be done so long as it is cheaper than to teach them at the local institution. I think it is purely a matter of economy, and what you must also make sure of is that the standard of the work is not lowered by the establishing of these additional schools, as I think that is at present undoubtedly happening. 9. Having regard to the equipment at present in existence in Auckland, do you mean to say you would not make use of that?—ft would be far and away cheaper to send it away to the centre you assign to that work. I think you need to make a very careful distinction between engineering work of the University standard and teaching handicrafts. Teaching handicrafts is undoubtedly desirable in a technical school m each centre, but when you undertake such a subject as civil or electrical engineering in a comprehensive manner it requires teaching of a high standard in a number of correlated subjects. It is not possible to do that without considerable expenditure, and any attempt to do that in New Zealand must inevitably tend to lower the standard of the work. We will have the appearance but not the reality. At present we do not reach the standard reached in other countries. I have gone into the details, and lam quite certain on that point. 10. In the case of any one in Auckland wanting to take an engineering course, would it be possible for him to take the first stages there and go to Christchurch to finish? —No. If you mean by " the first course " a purely 7 science course in fhe technical school, which would exist there in any oase, I would be prepared to say Yes; but if you imply a single engineering subject I would say 7 it should not be done, because that would be only the thin end of the wedge for thai particular institution to get something more. The centra] authority in this matter must have a fixed policy from which it should not depart. 11. Mr. Hogben?, Do you imagine that where each of these places is classed under the heading " Civil, Mechanical, and Electrical Engineering," the authorities are professing to give a full course of civil or mechanical or electrical engineering?— That is what, I take it, the term implies. I took that heading to mean in the case I specified that they were teaching a fairly complete course in the subject, and I specified particular schools.
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12. But is civil engineering one subject?— No. 13. That is only the name of the subject : you understand they may be taking only one subject of the group that is called civil engineering? —Yes, but in the particular cases 1 specially nientioned that is not the case. They are taking up more than one subject. 14. You make a distinction between the training suitable for apprentices, improvers, foremen, and so on, and the training necessary for a professional man?— Yes. 15. You may have subjects of the same name at the University College and technical school, and yet one may be approached from the point of view of the professional man who has had a preliminary training in science, and the other from the point of view of the apprentice?— Yes. 16. So that the overlapping you complain of at Auckland might exist between the University Colleges of Auckland and Christchurch, but not between the Technical School and the University College at Auckland? —But what 1 stated was that, according to a newspaper report, 1 thought there was actual overlapping in the teaching of electrical engineering at Auckland. 17. Have y 7 ou seen the two classes at work ?—No, but 1 have seen the equipment at the Auckland Technical School. 18. Have you seen the work the classes actually do in the school?—No, but the provision I saw implies that teaching is to be followed. 19. The Chairman.] 1 understand you would approve of what is known as the accrediting system through the various forms?— Yes. 20. And you think that can be adopted in New Zealand with advantage, and that it would lessen the strain of examinations that is objected to by some people?— Yes.
Wellington, Thursday, 11th July, 1912. Herbert Baillie examined on oath. (No. 185.) I. The Chairman.] What is your position?—l am Public Librarian for the City of Wellington, a position I have held for the last eight years. I am also secretary of the Librarians' Association of New Zealand. When your Chairman wrote to me first I understood that 1 was to touch upon the matter of travelling libraries, but in your secretary's invitation I am only asked to talk about school libraries. The two matters, as far as out-settlers and settlers in country districts are concerned, would work as one. I have endeavoured to show that what we are asking for is not a new scheme. New Zealand is not asked to set another example to the world, for the scheme was working at a time when New Zealand was not a leader in social movements, at least not as far as the civilized world was concerned. It is a scheme that ought to be tried in our scattered settlements for the benefit of our backblockers, who are without most of the advantages that we in the towns now think, absolutely necessary. I remember Sam Walter Foss, a prominent librarian of the United States, remarking that the problem of distribution of public books among all people had not been fully solved, nor would it be solved until all the inhabitants of the most isolated localities can obtain books as easily as the residents of the large cities. This problem has not escaped the attention of the few library enthusiasts we have in New Zealand, who may be found in. the ranks of the Libraries Association of New Zealand, for at its first two conferences the question of travelling libraries, and at its recent meeting the subject of the extension of school libraries in addition, took up a good deal of time in discussions that were fully sympathetic, and a deputation has waited on the Minister of Education asking his support in the promotion and maintenance of a Library Commission, which would take these important matters in hand. The work of a Library Commission is clearly explained in a paper prepared by Miss Templeton, of the Nebraska Commission, and read at our last conference. Copies of this paper are available for members of the Commission. My knowledge of travelling libraries was gained in the United States, principally in Wisconsin, which is acknowledged to have done more in this matter than any other State. The system is also working in the States of Australia, and the honour of establishing the scheme has been claimed for that Commonwealth, but it appears that the credit belongs to Scotland, for in 1817 Samuel Brown, a grand-uncle of John Brown, M.D., author of " Rab and His Friends," bought two hundred volumes, about two-thirds of which were books of a moral and religious character, arfd the remainder works of travel, agriculture, arts, and sciences. He divided them into four lots of fifty volumes, placed them in boxes, and stationed them in the villages of A.berlady, Saltou, Tyninghame, and Garvald. They were placed in charge of voluntary assistants, and were changed at the end of two years. The scheme worked well, for in twenty years' time there were forty-seven libraries in circulation, with a stock of 2,380 volumes. In 1837 Sir John Franklin was attempting to introduce it in Van Diemen's Land. According to recent educational reports the system has been brought into use in France as part of a great movement known as the " rural uplift." This movement is chiefly directed towards the instruction and enlightenment of the adult population. In addition to books, the Government arrange courses of instruction and illustrated lectures. During 1910 over thirty thousand series of slides for popular lectures were distributed. I do not know that your Commission is a body to be bothered with a question that has hitherto received little attention from educational authorities. There is a suspicion that the teacher has been rather inclined to look on the librarians' move to co-operate with the schools with disfavour, if not with opposition. It is now recognized that there should be co-operation of an active kind between library and school, and the most practical scheme, and the one that is receiving the greatest support in the United States, is the one that is now being tried by the Library Committee of the Wellington City Council, which has placed a collection of 340 books in the Clyde Quay State School. This collection is divided into groups of volumes sufficient for each of the classes from the Third to the Sixth Standard. Each group is placed in a cupboard in the class-rooms, and is in charge of the teacher of the class, who has
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also had a voice in the selection of books, thus enabling him to select books that might in an interesting way help the children in their studies. It has been feared that the children will look upon books as another form of home-work, but there is a good variety and there should he no compulsion in the matter, so 1 do-not fear any bad results, and as one book per week is the limit the child will not be encouraged to read too much. While the State is granting subsidies for school libraries my committee consider that they should receive some financial help for the collections placed in the city schools. In America there is no difficulty about funds, as both libraries and schools are supported by the local authority. As 1 have said, there is no compulsion in the reading by children, neither should there be compulsion in the teachers accepting these libraries if they should prefer to manage their own school libraries in their own way. Mamschools have good libraries, and the masters are quite capable of managing them. Generally speaking, the chief need in the management of school libraries, after the selection and purchase of books, is interest in the work. The Wellington Library has now received applications from four of the city schools for similar libraries to the one placed in the Clyde Quay School, but these are being field over pending our test, also pending a decision re Government aid. The advantage of this system is the economy secured; the 340 books to the Clyde Quay School will not be added to —another collection will be sent. If another school requires a collection of 340 books the first collection could be sent to it, or the 680 books rearranged to suit both schools. In an ordinary school library there would be an addition to the original collection each year, and in time it would be a large library, but with virtually no advantage—34o live books are quite sufficient for 340 scholars. It is also usual to place the school library in one collection. Where there are more than one teacher it would be much better to give each teacher charge of a group. It is the wish of the Wellington Library Committee to assist the school-teachers by placing in its departments literature that will be of use to them, also in allowing them to make use of the children's department collection. lam in hopes that in time the teachers will appreciate our efforts. As to general distribution, it appears to me that the Education Department is the proper Department to undertake this work. It might have the assistance of the suggested Library Board, but it would also be necessary to have an expert organizer, at an} 7 rate until the scheme was working smoothly. 1 do not for a moment agree with the suggestion that an extra office boy on the staff of the Education Department would he sufficient to launch and carry out, such an extensive and important scheme. Everything would depend on the expert knowledge and enthusiasm of the organizer. I have to thank you for the opportunity of placing these schemes before you, although I am afraid that I have not done the subject full justice. 2. Mr. Davidson.] Do you know what is being done in the several education districts to encourage school libraries? —No. 3. If an Education Board giants a subsidy on a local contribution up to, say, £5, would that not enable the teachers of the various standards to have, say, in each class-room about a hundred books suited to the requirements of the particular standards? Would that not be a simpler way than having the books sent from the centra] library? —That is the system that has been in vogue for some years, and we have had teachers coming to us and asking for a new scheme. 4. Has it been in vogue?—As far as I know it has. 5. Do you not think that the Government might not subsidize public-school libraries as well as the ordinary public libraries?—We have come to the conclusion that there is a good deal of waste of power so far as small libraries are concerned, and that something better could be evolved. 6. Mr. Hogben.] Do you not think that the Education Boards would be better centres for the management of school libraries than the Education Department?—l was only thinking of uniformity. 7. Supposing the Government gave a subsidy in aid of school libraries and limited the sum to each Board to pound for pound on what is raised in the Board's district, and besides that, gave advice as to a list of books drawn up after conference with experts, would not that be the best way for the Department to take part in this work? —That is just repeating the trouble we are having with the small libraries. We find that the smaller libraries that have the least subsidy have to pay the highest price for their books. 8. The-books would be bought by the Boards?— That is coming round to my opinion. 9. Could the Department get the books cheaper than the Boards, when you take into consideration the freights from Wellington to each of the separate Boards?—lf you decide that each Board is to have the management of its own district it, might'be better. But you would have thirteen Boards, which would mean thirteen different schemes working. 10. Mr. Wells.] Could not the books be bought in England by the Department and sent out to each Board?— Yes. 11. Mr. Hogben.] In any case you would have to use the Boards? —It might work out that way, but my idea is that it should be a central organization. 12. Are you aware that the Central Department is hardly in the position the Boards are in to know the natures and requirements of each separate school?— Your expert adviser would soon find out. 13. From the Boards?— From the schools. 14. Why not from the Boards? —There is a loss of power in that. 15. What you are anxious to see is a library in each school class-room? —Yes. 16. You are not so keen about the details as the plan?— That is so. The details might be decided later. Mary McLean examined on oath. (No. 186.) 1. The Chairman.} You are Principal of the Girls' College, Wellington?— Yes. I have occupied that position for nearly twelve years. Previous to that I was Principal of the Timaru Girls' High School, where I was for about ten years. lam classified Al under the Department and a M.A. with honours under the New Zealand University.
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2. Will you give the Commission your opinions on the matters we have under consideration as they appeal to you?— There can be hardly two opinions that sufficient money has not been spent on girls' high schools in New Zealand, and there is no doubt that their efficiency has been impaired by this treatment. This is noticeable in buildings, equipment, and staffing. The deficiency lies, in the first place, in the early neglect to provide sufficient endowments, owing to delay in "recognizing the importance to the country of women being as well educated as men. The doubt now lurks, it is safe to say, only in the minds of a few half-crazy folk that it is pre-eminently worth while to educate the mind as well as train the hands of girls. The health and the usefulness of women are improved by the wider opportunity given by enlightened views on women's possibilities. It is the opportunity of a thoroughly good education that has given the world such fine work as that of Miss Florence Nightingale and Madame Curie. Miss Fawcett showed in the early days of the movement called the renaissance of girls' education that a girl can understand mathematics, and Miss Ramsay that a girl can hold her own in classics. Even in our own New Zealand University Examinations a girl has beaten all boys in the Junior Scholarship Examination in mathematics, and recently in classics, as well as generally. All these cases may be looked on as exceptional, but, even so, should not the exceptional brain be' allowed opportunity for full development? Where success in examination has happened in my own school I can say positively that it has been done without overstrain or any neglect of the recreations and pleasures of school-life. All headmistresses make careful provision for the health and physical well-being of girls intrusted to their care. This evidence may be unnecessary, but T should be sorry to see some suggestions made to the Commission bearing fruit, as, for example, that mathematics and physics, the only exact sciences taken by us, should not be subjects for girls in the Junior Scholarship Examination. The tendency would be for these subjects to be undervalued or discontinued in the highest forms. If such a retrograde measure were adopted it would be looked on as a calamity by the Principals of girls' schools, though they are quite aware that these subjects are not as useful for girls as for boys in after-life. The large increase in numbers attending the, girls' schools has not in every case been attended with a sufficient increase in outlay for buildings. The efficiency of a school is seriously impaired if libraries, science and art rooms, and even janitors' quarters have to be diverted from their proper use and turned into ordinary classrooms. To quote our own case, besides insufficient class-room accommodation, we have not an assembly hall capable of seating all the girls. Its size, 50 ft. by 30 ft., at the usual hall computation of 8 square feet, would provide for about half the number (180 instead of 348). The evils in connection with staffing are even more serious than the deficient accommodation. It means that either the school staff is kept low to make the salaries adequate, or that inadequate salaries are paid. Both are pernicious in their effects. In the first case the teachers have too much work. Every high-school teacher should have free periods in her time-table. The English Headmistresses' Association recommended that in secondary schools there should be one teacher for every twenty pupils, and that no mistress should teach more than twenty lessons a week. Most of our New Zealand secondary teachers teach classes from twenty-five to thirty (sometimes forty and over), and teach the full twenty-five hours a week, besides giving extra time to necessary out-of-school duties and time to preparation of lessons and the correction of work. We should take a leaf out of Germany's book. Tn a special report on modern language-teaching it is stated that there no teacher was allowed to teach more than twenty lessons a week, and, owing to the recommendation of experts, it was further reduced to eighteen (quoted by the English Headmistresses' Association from " Special Reports on Modern Language Teaching "). The Germans have steadily in view pre-eminence in education and consequent brain-power, and a first plank with them is to have efficient teachers. A staff cannot be efficient if overworked. Where the staffing is fairly adequate in numerical strength it is invariably badly paid. The average salary of assistant mistresses in girls' secondary "schools for 1910 was £145. Tn the Wellington Girls' College the staffing is satisfactory, but the average salary (£159) is not. It is miserably inadequate for non-resident teachers, especially when the high qualifications of all and the length of experience of some are considered. Among these are teachers of twenty-four, ten, eleven, and twelve years' experience. Two have been headmistresses, and eight are M.A.s with honours, and all eminently successful teachers. Tdo not mention our case as exceptional; it is typical. Teachers work night and day. and a grateful State doles them out a mere pittance. The consequence is that teaching is becoming less and less a favourite pursuit for women. In recommending very promising girls to become teachers we get the reply from their parents that the prospect is too poor, and it is not surprising that they choose less arduous work. The Government has talked for years of its large annual surplus: to what better use could these surpluses be put than to improve the education of the country. The greatest asset the country can have is well-educated men and women. In connection with the subject of efficient teachers, all heads of secondary schools would welcome some improvement in the training; of secondary-school teachers. The training colleges might co-operate with secondary schools in this matter, and send students to study classes for method in the secondary schools. Such a plan has already been adopted in Wellington this year. Another possible war to acquire something like expert teachers with a wider outlook and knowledge for our isolated New Zealand would be for the Government to make grants towards sending annually one outstanding girl for training to England. Tin's is done for boys by the Rhodes Scholarship. Tt would help to supply some much-needed expert teachers in such subjects as history and modern languages. The New Zealand Headmistresses' Association would be willing to submit a scheme and help to increase a workable subsidy to any necessary amount. An endowment of £5,000 would provide one scholarship for three years, and ,£15.000 an annual one of £250 a year. The successful candidate would be asked to make a declaration trrnl it is her intention to return to the Dominion and engage in teaching or other educational work. There is a danger of secondary schools becoming too large for the best kind of management. The
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head should be able to know every pupil in the school, and this is not possible in a school of over three hundred or four hundred at the outside. Subsidiary schools, corresponding to the English middle schools, where the pupils leave at sixteen and do not prepare for the university, should be established under the same Board of Governors as the High School proper. This would prevent competition and overlapping. For girls this might take the form of a school where domestic subjects and arts and crafts took a leading place, and to this would go the girls who now attend a technical day school. The advantage over present technical arrangements would be that girls would be under the supervision of a headmistress, who would care for the health and be responsible for the discipline and moral training of the girls. Put the education of girls all through more fully into the hands of women, and you need not be afraid that a girl's ordinary mission will be lost sight of or her health allowed to suffer in the process of a sound secondary education. It is important that examination requirements should keep pace with improvements in teaching. External examinations are not desirable at all for girls under sixteen years of age, but when they have to be faced it is well that they should follow the lines of the best teaching of the schools. Examination committees should exist to supervise examination papers set by the University or other authority, and acting (or recently acting) teachers should be associated with the examiners. University professors out of touch with the actual work in schools should not act alone as the sole judges of the work of schools. Such a committee would also ensure greater uniformity of standard from year to year. The best modern language-teaching requires an oral examination to do it justice, and this should be given in both the University and the Department examinations. Such a test is required from students on leaving the University- College, and it would be a gain to modern language-teaching if bad pronunciation were checked in the earlier school stage. For the information of teachers the oral examination should be marked and reported On separately. For classification purposes it would be a help if the marks allotted in each subject in the Matriculation Examination were printed, attached to the candidate's number only, and were available for the secondary schools. This was recommended at the last Secondary Schools Conference. History as a subject has been neglected from, primary school to University. It should be compulsory for a teacher's certificate and be given a leading place in primary-school work, but without the addition of civics in the lower standards. In the Junior Civil Service Examination its value should be raised to 300, or be included, as no longer optional, in the English paper. The recommendations of the recent Recess Committee of the Senate are worthy of consideration by the Commission. The appointment of a Professor of History and Economics with the highest qualifications would give the subject the position it deserves in an educational system and especially needs in a country like New Zealand. A Chair of History and Economics would have an enhanced value if, as is done in the University of Wisconsin, the professor was expected to advise the Government on taxation and other economic questions. It is perhaps worth while quoting the President of this University as an authority for the practical use of this important and (with us) neglected subject. He says, " These subjects—history, economics, sociology —are the modern humanities; they appeal to the practical people of the West far more than science. These studies are in the closest living relation with the life of the community. They are therefore the most vital subjects, and receive the greatest amount of attention and thought." In determining the scope of the subject too much should not be attempted. Professor Raymont, in his " Principles of Education," lays it down that " The utmost that can be expected in the primary school is that the main features of our national history should be graphically sketched, and in most cases this will be done by expounding the contents of the reading-book. Some little knowledge of the heroes of Greece and Rome may be added; and the Bible lessons should give an idea of the ancient civilization to which the modern owes so much." Even more glaring than the defect in English history knowledge of children coming from the primary to the secondary schools is their ignorance on all matters of biblical knowledge; names well known to their fathers and mothers born in England are unknown to them. This must be deplored from a merely cultural point of view, if it is true, as the London Times says, that the Bible is " a book that says what is best worth saying in the best possible way," and " is the foundation of all culture among us." But what is to be said from a character-forming point of view? Simply that teachers are asked to undertake a hopelessly difficult task if they are asked to produce a sincere, honourable, truth-loving, and unselfish type of character without the possibility of presenting to the children's minds and imaginations the highest Ideal of all, and of presenting the requirements of the Highest definitely as His requirements. Dogma need never crop up at all in dealing with school-children, and in practice actually never does. In this matter at least we are lagging behind Australia, where, for the most part, the New South Wales system of Bible-reading has been adopted. I know from the emphatic remarks of parents living busy, hurried lives that most of them regret deeply this loss to their children —a loss that they have not time (it will soon be not even the knowledge) to made good. I am convinced that a large majority will be grateful to the agency that helps to restore " our noble inheritance " (the words of King George) to its proper place in the schools. Many think—and I certainly think with them —that the results of the omission are already evident in the unhealthy love of excitement and pleasure (seen in crowds of even children at the picture-shows), in the want of respect for authority, and generally (seen in their behaviour in the streets) the want of reverence for age and in the looseness in moral ideas that it stamps one as living in a fool's paradise not to be aware of. Taken along with lack of parental control these are ominous for the future. There is in the New Zealand educational system a flaw of another kind that the Commission may feel equal to meeting at once by a strong recommendation, and that is the need of residential houses in connection with schools and colleges. This arises partly from a want of appreciation of the immense advantage it is to students and future teachers to live in well-planned and well-governed residential colleges or hostels, and partly from a lack of funds. Such boardinghouses should be attached to every secondary school,
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training and University College. If additional country scholarships are provided this will be required more urgently than ever in connection with schools. There is a greater need for them in the case of girls even than for boys, yet it is generally in connection with girls' schools that nothing has been done by governing bodies to provide suitable boarding-accommodation. They would also be useful in giving practice in domestic economy. This is a matter that should not be left in a haphazard way to private enterprise. And it should not be possible for country scholarshipholders to live in unsuitable or, as has happened, in extremely undesirable surroundings. Country scholarship-holders should be paid a full boarding-allowance and be required to live at the school boardinghouse. This should be required even under present arrangements, much more so when suitable boardinghouses are built. It would be also a great boon to teachers from the country if, while in the central towns for training at training colleges and University, they could have refined. though simple surroundings and facilities for study. In both these suggestions there is no expense involved beyond the initial one of building, because both kinds, if established, would certainly prove to be more than self-supporting. We are only following in the steps of England if we ask for medical inspection for secondary schools as well as for primary. The consent of parents is asked before inspection is allowed, and would be rarely refused. From English reports in a girls' school we learn that the medical woman usually takes two hours and a half to see ten girls. She does not prescribe—only inspects and reports. Mothers may attend for the inspection, but if not reports are sent home through the headmistress, especially mentioning matters like eyesight, teeth, &c, which require attention. Some doctors give lectures to the mothers on the health of girls, and sometimes lessons to the older girls for hygiene are given by her. One headmistress writes, " I consider this inspection essential, as it makes me aware of the physical as well as intellectual capacity of each pupil, and her time-table can be regulated accordingly." Another advantage is that teachers get trained in observing physical defects, and be quick to notice them. Medical inspection would also relieve the regular staff from what at present takes up considerable time just at the beginning and end of the year when we are busiest. I mean the weighing, taking the measurements of height, chest-expansion, and lung-capacity of each pupil. This has been done at our school for some years now with the assistance of the Drill Instructor. Careful records are kept of the development of each girl, and special remedial exercises are given in addition to the regular drill for all requiring them. Drill with us takes the form of the German or English system. Swedish exercises are used for part of the work, but music is also used. These remedial exercises have been found useful in correcting round shoulders, crooked backs, flabby muscles, and bad walking; but we (and I am sure other secondary schools) would welcome a medical expert opinion for a surer guidance. The form mistress is expected to be aware of the condition of each of the girls put in her charge, and great care is taken to prevent the danger of overstrain either from drill, games, class-work, or home-work. The latter is regulated by a definitely prescribed limit of time. In all cases the co-operation of mothers is necessary, is asked for, and expected. In considering the matter of health it is well to remember that the best-educated are the healthiest, and that there is less insanity among the " educated classes," as they are called, than among the uneducated, as is established in Barnett's " Common-sense in Education." There is a tendency for free-place pupils to leave of their own wish or when attendance is slightly inconvenient to parents. A parent should give a guarantee on entry of pupil that be undertakes that he or she should stay the full, two v 7 ears. Children come too late to high schools. Proficiency certificates should be gained a year or two earlier : fifteen is too old. Secondary education should begin at thirteen. Some simplification or concentration is needed in primary-school work; English at present is unsatisfactory; as are also arithmetic, history, and geography. 3. Mr. Wells.] Do you think that a guarantee from the parents that a child will stay two years at a secondary school could be enforced?—l do not suppose it could, but it would be a corrective. It would be a moral obligation. 4. Do you find that many of your pupils leave at the end of the first year?—Not more than 8 per cent. 5. Do you think that some of those who come to you would do better work at a technical college?— Those who leave at the end of one year would have been much better off if they had gone to a technical college. 6. Do you think there should be ..some form of conference between the parent and teacher before a child enters on a technical-school course, so that the teacher's observation as to the bent of the child might be taken into account?—l think, it would be wise on the parent's part if that were done. 7. Do you think that when an application for a Free-place Examination is being made there should be a line on which the teacher should report his opinion as to the course the child should undertake?—lt might be a help and guidance to the school to which the child goes to have that opinion. 8. At what age do you think the sexes should be separated in schools? —I think that there is probably a gain by their being together up to ten years of age. After ten years, where possible, they should be separated. 9. Would you separate them before they leave the primary 7 school? —It depends on the district. In large districts where it can be done without financial stress I would recommend it. 10. Do you really think that in the large town schools, in the hands of first-class teachers, girls suffer in any way by being in the same class as boys?—To some extent they do. 11. Do you think there should be any differentiation in examination between boys and girls? ■ —I think it would be better to leave it that girls can take the same subjects as boys. 12. Do you have a domestic-science course?— Yes, both theoretical and practical. 13. How is it received by girls?—lt is new with us, but there is great keenness in joining the classes.
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14. Do all the girls take the classes? —No. Seventy-two out of a school of 340. f5. Do you endeavour to influence the girls to take such a course? —Yes. Whenever I can 1 advise the parents that the children should take the course. 16. Do you care to make any remark on the spoken English of the pupils who come to you from the primary schools?—l do not notice any glaring defect; only what is common in Nexv Zealand and Australia. There is thinning of the vowels that requires care. 17. Do you notice any deterioration in the last ten years? —No. 18. Mr. Kirk,] Do you think there is anything to justify the parents who stated to you that they had no time to teach their children biblical truths ?—lt is sad that it should be so, but 1 think it is. I think that the hurry of life and the want of domestic help is at the bottom of it. 19. Do you look upon it that there should be biblical instruction? —Most decidedly. 20. Were they working-people who told y-ou they could not attend to the religious instruction of their children? —I suppose they would be called the working-classes. They have no help in their homes. It does not apply only to working-people. 21. Do you consider that those people who are not working-people do attend to the biblical instruction of their children?—l do not think they do to the extent they should. 22. Is that because of social obligations or any other obligations? —It may be that they do not attach sufficient importance to it. 23. Or that they attach more importance to social obligations?— Possibly. 24. Do you think it is right that the social obligations of these people should have the effect of thrusting further duties on the teachers whom we are informed are already overworked ? — But moral education is the first duty of teachers. 25. And not of parents?—Of both. 26. Is it proper or right that these parents should be allowed, for the sake of attendance to social obligations, to thrust upon overworked teachers this extra duty?—l do not think it is onlysocial obligations that make parents neglect it, and I did not say so. 27. You said "partly"?— Yes; only to a slight extent. I think the position is such that they have no time for it. 28. Have they no time for amusements?— You know what the general state of the community is. 29. What would be the general opinion of teachers if a further duty was placed upon you in this direction?—So far as the secondary schools are concerned I think it would be welcomed. 30. Do the children get some moral education at home? —Some do. I do not think the parents consider the children get enough, and they desire the co-operation of the school. 31. Is the ideal and aim of this teaching to make a higher moral standing, and so reduce crime? —Yes. 32. Do you know whether it is the case that in countries where the Bible is taught in school that there is a high moral tone, and that crime is lessened? —I think so. I think that in England, where Bible-teaching is general in schools, the character of the English people is higher than it would be otherwise. 33. Do you think that anything further is required to be put into our syllabus than this paragraph from the Regulations for the Inspection and Examination of Schools : " Moral Instruction —48. It is not intended that these lessons should occupy, any more than they have done in the past, a separate place on the time-table, or be considered as forming a subject apart from the general instruction or from the life of the school. The moral purpose should, indeed, dominate the spirit of the whole school life, and the influence of the school and its teachers upon the pupils should be such as is calculated to be a real factor in the formation of good character. Many of the reading-lessons and sometimes other lessons, and the ordinary incidents of school life, will in most cases furnish sufficient occasions for the inculcation of such principles as are indicated below 7 . The formation of habits — e.g., order (tidiness at home, in school premises, in the street, tidiness of dress and person); punctuality- and regularity at school, at work, and elsewhere; industry in school, at home, in play; cleanliness of person (hands, faces, teeth, heads), of clothes, about the house, and in school; clean talk and clean thoughts; pure minds and pure deeds; truthfulness in word and deed; honest work; self-control; government of temper; patience; perseverance; moral courage; duties in relation to our own bodies and minds; temperance in eating and drinking; the reading of good books; choice of amusements; readiness to learn from all. Duties to others, to parents,.to the family, to those in misfortune, to neighbours and those in authority, to fellow-pupils; respect for others; obedience to parents and teachers; toleration of others in regard to act, speech, and opinion; gratitude; practical help to others; speaking well of others; kindness, unselfishness, and self-denial. Good manners —at home, to parents, to friends, to brothers and sisters; at school, to teachers and fellow-pupils; in the street, to girls and women, to the old and to the young, to the sick and afflicted, to seniors, equals, and juniors— in short, to every one. Money and its uses; it represents the result of labour; frugality and thrift; savings-banks. Regard for property, public or private, not to injure or spoil. We should help to make the place we live in a more beautiful place. Civil duties; the franchise, and the duty of using it always with honesty and intelligence; the welfare of the State should be the care of" all, for we are all members of it. Kindness to animals. Candour; honour; love of home; forgiveness and forbearance; peace; duty; accuracy and painstaking; contentment; benevolence or humanity; cheerfulness; self-reliance; self-respect; modesty; courage; prudence; zeal and energy; justice; loyalty and patriotism; respect for law; magnanimity; integrity of purpose; precept and example; formation of character; the golden rule." Does not that give the teachers, a sufficiently wide scope in bringing the characters of the children under them to a high moral plane? —I do not think so. 34. What- is wanting there? —You want the opportunity of bringing before the children every day living examples that have helped to form the world as we have it in Scripture history.
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35. Then comes this paragraph : " The experience of teachers will guide them as to the best time and manner in which to impart these lessons; it will probably be recognized that abstract moral teaching fails to excite any interest in the minds of children generally, and that it is best to enforce the principles of moral conduct by examples taken from history, biography, poetry, and fiction, and by anecdote, allegory, and fable "1 —f would ask you to add to that " characters from the Bible." 36. Surely that is history?—ls that included? J do not think, it is generally understood that it is. If it is I would think the deficiency- is not as great as it is generally interpreted to be. 37. That being the case, do you think there is any real need for the introduction of the Bible into the schools? —Yes, 1 do think so. 38. Why 7 further than what we have here? In what respect does this that I have read fail? —If you have no service of any kind at the beginning of the. day's work you dissociate the idea of religion from the daily life of the pupil, and I think that is pernicious. 39. But that is imparted at home now. The school is only supplementing what is given at home? —I wish it to be supplemented as a daily practice. 40. Do you say that the parents are not teaching their children in this matter?— Not sufficiently. 41. Mr. Davidson.] Do you know that in connection with moral teaching the teachers are expected to draw up a scheme of work in that very subject, and that it must actually form part of the work, of the school? —I think a syllabus drawn up on that plan does not appeal to the children in the way that examples of human life do. It is too much with institutions rather than life that that deals, and. it is life that appeals not only to the children but also to the parents most strongly. 42. The teacher is not bound down in any way : he lias perfect freedom to teach it when he likes, but it must dominate the whole of the school life. Those are the instructions?—l do not wish it to appear that I think the present body of teachers do not give moral instruction. I think they are constantly giving it in the English lessons, but I do not think it is sufficient to produce the highest type of character. 43. Have you any idea of the percentage of children attending the primary schools who also attend the Sunday- schools? —1 cannot speak at once of the percentage, but I know there is an immense difference between the number of day-school scholars and the number of Sunday-school scholars. There is a great leakage. I think it is the children who most need it that get the least instruction in such matters. 44. Do you not think that if the Sunday 7 schools and the Churches and the parents do their part the teachers are doing what reasonably might be expected of them if they attend to the instructions given in the syllabus?— No. May I add that in my opinion it is putting the subject in a wrong place when it is added after the rest of the day's work is done. Although permission is given to clergymen to come to the schools, it is at a time of day 7 when the children are too fatigued to do justice to the subject or take any real interest in it. It is expecting too much from the children, and also too much from the clergymen. 45. The Chairman.] Do you not know that in a great many of the schools the clergymen teach from 9 to 9.30 a.m., and sometimes as late as 10 o'clock? —There again it is approaching the subject in the wrong way to bring the children together earlier than they like to come, and bringing those who need it least. I speak from experience. 46. Mr. Pirani.} It is not earlier: it is in the ordinary work of the time-table?— That is where the Nelson system is used. 47. And in Otago and Wanganui to some extent?—l have tried Scripture-teaching before school began. That means that the children who have good homes, in which they get some religious training, come to the classes, but those one would like to see do not come. 48. Mr. Davidson,.] What is your opinion of the finished product of the primary school to-day as compared with that of ten years ago?— The finished product comes to us older than used to be the case. , , 49. Are the girls as well equipped for the work of a secondary school as they- were ten years ago? —I think they are all round as well equipped, but they- are disappointing in some subjects. 50. The Chairman?] In. what subjects?—ln arithmetic their work is not accurate. The girls have learned the rules, but are not accurate. As to English, I consider that more formal grammar would be a great help to the secondary schools, which, in beginning secondary subjects, have to give work in formal grammar which would be better given with the English lesson. 51. Do you find the girls better, generally, in composition?— No. I would like to think that they were. 52. Is there any drawback in their knowledge of economic geography-?—Thev- have not the knowledge one would like to take for granted when they come to the secondary school. 53. Mr. Davidson.] Have the free-place girls entry into your school?— They have had it for the last two years. 54. Then the material you had ten years ago was of a different class—it would be the cream of the primary schools? —I am aware of that. It is difficult to make comparisons. In the earlier times we used to have most of them as scholarship girls. .56... If the lady Principal of one of the most prominent girls' schools in New Zealand were to say that in her opinion many of the girls who prepare for the University Junior Scholarship Examination are really unsuited for the work, and suffer physically, would you be disposed to agree with her? —I would be inclined to blame the system for allowing a girl to take the Junior Scholarship course if she was not fitted for it. „ .56.-. The.witness did not speak of her own girls, but said that many of the girls in New Zealand are unfitted for the work, and suffer physically, and probably mentally?— That is not my
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experience. As to one girl who won a scholarship last year, her parents told me that she went to bed every evening at 9 o'clock. She did no extra work in her preparation. Moreover, I did not expect her to get a scholarship, as she was a year under the age. 57. Do you think that all the girls who prepare for the examination are entirely suited for it?— Personally I would discourage any girl who was not. I have dissuaded girls from entering for it when I did not think them fit for the anxiety- of the examination work. 58. Within your own experience have you known of any girl who has sat for the examination who really should not have sat?— No. 59. Mr. Pirani.] For what hours do y r ou have Bible-teaching in your school? —In the school hours. Every girl gets a Scripture lesson twice a week, and there is a daily reading. All the secondary schools give that. 60. You say that the secondary teachers have too much work. What is your idea of the number of pupils one secondary teacher should have to teach?— There should be one teacher to twenty scholars. 61. What is about the salary- paid to the assistant teachers in your school?— The average is £159, and the highest salary is £215—much too low. 62. What will be the length of service of the higher assistants? —Two of them have been at this school for ten years, and each of them had a year or two of previous experience. 63. What would be a fair salary for the work, experience, and ability of such teachers —say, of the first assistant?—l think the maximum at a school of three hundred should be £300 a year. As the numbers increase, and the work and responsibility- increase with them, there should be a higher maximum. 64. And what should be the maximum for the second assistant? —£250. 65. And the third assistant? —Many schools do not classify them as first, second, and third. It would need to be considered as a scheme. Ranging downwards, I should say £150. I am specially thinking of Wellington, where the cost, of board is high. Ido not think any one should have less than £150 here. 66. Do you find the new assistants appointed to the school have had proper training in teaching?— Quite half my staff have had previous training in training colleges. It would be more than half if I included early training as primary teachers. 67. Do you think it essential that the teachers should have training in secondary teaching before going out as teachers?—lt is preferable. If one is a born teacher it would not be essential, but I would certainly prefer training, even under the present unsatisfactory conditions. 68. Would it be a good idea to establish, either in connection with the training colleges or otherwise, training classes for secondary teachers ? —Yes. 69. Do you think there are at present too many examinations in connection with secondary teaching?—l certainly think so. 70. What examinations do you consider should be done away with?—l should like to see even the Matriculation Examination done away- with, and the American accrediting system followed. 71. Accrediting by the Principal and the secondary-schools Inspector in consultation?— Yes. 72. With regard to the pronunciation of English, do you not think the fault is to a considerable extent in the secondary schools, and not in the primary schools?—l should not say so. 73. Is there not a tendency amongst certain people to corrupt the sound of " i," and sound it more like "a": for instance, to call "light" "late," and "five" "faive"? Have you noticed that in the secondary schools? —Yes. 74. Have you ever noticed it in primary-school children? —The children in whom I have noticed it came from the primary schools. 75. Have you ever noticed it in primary-school teachers? —Yes. 76. And in secondary-school teachers?—l am sorry to say I have. 77. The Chairman.] Have you ever noticed it in public men?—l am afraid I have. 78. Mr. Pirani.] The Principal of one of our largest girls' colleges told us that she had had considerable primary-school experience, and she had never come across it in primary-school pupils, but had done so in secondary schools. Your experience is different? —Yes. 79. Have you any idea where it comes from: is it English, or colonial, or what?—l have looked upon it as English dialect. 80. Have you any ideas as to' the proper method of teaching what we may call sex physiology to girls, whether it should be taught by lady medical authorities or in the ordinary school course? First, do you consider it desirable that such instruction should be given?—lt is desirable, but I have not given the subject the consideration that perhaps it deserves. I should think the home is a better place for imparting it than a school class. 81. The Chairman.] But if it is neglected at home what would you advise with regard to the secondary school?—I think much might be done by literature being recommended to the parents. Perhaps the Department could make the recommendation. 82. Do you think it a good idea to have lessons given by lady doctors?—l do not think I am favourable to class teaching on the subject. 83. You would prefer individual teaching to class teaching?— Yes. 84. Mr. Hogben.] How many free-place pupils have you?—We have 295 this year. 85. And the total attendance at the school? —348 is the highest attendance. 86. Then the revenue available for salaries and cost of administration should be £4,350. Allowing 10s. per head for cost of administration,, that leaves £4,150 that should be available for salaries, and the amount spent on salaries is £2,680? —The Governors tell us they have practically no endowments —that the endowments brought in only £150 last year, though I believe the amount has increased since.
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'87. But the endowments for Wellington College brought in £3,368 in 1910?— When we apply for increases of salary we are reminded that they have practically no endowments. 88. Is there anything in the Wellington College Ordinance to show that the endowments were meant for the boys and not for the girls?— Personally I think they were meant for both, but practically it does not work out at all equally. . 89. What you want is for the Government to pay more money to make up for what is taken from the girls and given to the boys? —I want more money for salaries, and there should be more. 90. If they spent another £1,000 on salaries for the Girls' College that would bring them to a satisfactory amount ? —Yes. 91. The Chairman.] If there were a vacancy on your staff would you have any difficulty in filling it on account of the insufficiency of the salary ?—I do not understand why good teachers come to us on the poor salaries they get. We have had difficulties, but I think more on account of subjects not taken at the University than the lowness of the salaries. I think that for one thing Wellington is considered a desirable place to live in—that people like to live in a central place. 92. Mr. Hogben?} With regard to the teaching of history, you could not be aware that in the new Civil Service Regulations a certain amount of history will be required from every candidate, in accordance with the recommendation of the Committee of the University : would that meet what you referred to? —Yes. 93. Would you make the hostels or boardinghouses a matter of private profit to the people placed in charge of them? —No. They should be run at the risk of the governing body. 94. How much do you think it would be necessary to allow to scholarship-holders to enable them to pay for their board? —I should say £40 a year. 95. Do you not know that where the schools are large anything over £30 gives a good profit? You do not want the Boards to make a profit out of the boarding? Would not £35 be enough?— I think so. 96. Mr. Pirani.] If the fees amounted to £12 10s. per pupil and the boarding charges were £40, and there were something like a hundred pupils, do you think it would be possible to pay more liberal salaries than are paid under present conditions? —Not much more. 97. Do you know that the Principal of the Wanganui Girls' College is paid £600 a year, and the other teachers from £300 downwards? —Y r es. 98. And that the College income from endowments is only £150 a year, and they have no State assistance? —They have no free-place pupils? 99. They have thirty-six free-place pupils of their own, and notwithstanding that they are able to pay good salaries, and they made a profit last year of over £450. Do you not think that if this can be done under an Education Board there is something wrong with your own Girls' College when it cannot do better? —You should ask our Chairman. 100. The Chairman.] Do you go so far as to say that the separation of the sexes in the primary schools, and placing the girls under a woman, is desirable? —Yes. 101. Do you give religious instruction in your school as distinguished from the mere reading of the Bible? —I give instruction also. 102. And do your class teachers do likewise? —No. The class teachers give Bible-reading only. A few help me in the religious instruction. 103. Are you aware that in the making of citizens without such instruction New Zealand compares favourably with the States of Australia and other countries where the New South Wales system is in operation? —I should doubt it. 104. But if the statistics prove it what do you say? —That we are only a good people, and might be a better. 105. Take the class of pupil who comes to you on free places from the State school: have you anything to say to their prejudice in regard to the making of good women in the future? Is the material any worse now than it was twenty years ago? —Can you judge very much from a child while she is under strict school discipline? She shows more favourably then. 106. Does not that test the value of the home training? That is what I want to get at. Have you found such a lamentable falling-off in the home training?—l do not think there is an equally high sense of honour, of absolute truthfulness and sense of duty, as one would like to see. It is only my opinion, but I know from conversation with the heads of other New Zealand schools that it is also their opinion. 107. And you are prepared, for yourself, to welcome the opportunity of relieving the parents of that measure of parental duty the neglect of which you deplore so much? —Yes. 108. And if we tell you that the tendency of that will be to break up the national system of education are you still prepared to say that that is the course you advocate?—l should still think it was good. Frederick. Giles Gibbs examined on oath. (No. 187.) 1. The Chairman?, You represent the Nelson Educational Institute?— Yes. 2. What is your position?—l have been headmaster of the Nelson Boys' School since 1894. Previous to that I was for about four years second assistant at the Nelson Boys' College, and for about a year a temporary assistant in the Nelson Boys' School. lam an M.A.'of the New Zealand University, and hold an Al certificate. 3. Have you prepared a statement for submission to the Commission?— The statement I am about to submit was prepared by the Nelson Educational Institute, to be presented by me. It is as follows : — Re cost of State education : We beg to urge that the amount of expenditure upon education should be largely and steadily increased. Many writers upon political economy notably. Professor Marshall, of Cambridge—have pointed out that nothing conduces more to the industrial efficiency of a nation than a high level of education and culture, and that therefore
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all money wisely spent on education is invested in the most remunerative manner possible. It is generally recognized that the remarkable rise of modern Germany is mainly due to the splendid system of education inaugurated in Prussia early in the nineteenth century. Moreover, in view of the large sums spent every year in New Zealand upon such amusements as picture-shows and horse-racing, and upon such luxuries as tobacco and alcoholic liquors, the expenditure of rather more than a million upon such an all-important matter as the training of the rising generation is absolutely paltry in comparison. Further improvement in the efficiency of our schools depends most of all upon a reduction in the size of our classes, and that involves an increase in the number of our teachers. A greatly increased expenditure under this heading is urgently required, and would be much more than recouped within a few years by the improvement in the industrial efficiency of the people that would undoubtedly follow. For the sake of economy, and to extend the scope of district promotion schemes should a Dominion scheme not be adopted, we think that each of the present University districts might with advantage be constituted as one education district. A Dominion scheme of promotion is highly desirable, as the uncertainty of promotion is largely responsible for the shortage of teachers. The chief obstacle to the proper education of the children in our primary schools on modern lines is the large size of the classes. In this connection we would recommend that the additionr.l assistants provided for in column 6of the Second Schedule be appointed without any unnecessary delay, and that the pupil-teachers whom they were intended to replace be kept on in order to maintain a larger supply of new entrants to the profession. Scholarships and bursaries awarded to the pupils of primary schools upon the results of competitive examinations should be abolished. The strenuous preparation for these examinations is often injurious both mentally and physically to the youthful competitors. Teachers, moreover, are sorely tempted to gain distinction for themselves by devoting an tmdue amount of time and attention to a few precocious children, and neglecting more or less the rest of the scholars. Nominations for members of School Committees should close one week before the date of the annual meeting of householders, and in the event of an election being.necessary papers bearing the names of the candidates should be supplied to householders at the meeting. In many localities a number of small country schools might with advantage be closed, and the children be conveyed to one large central school. The great discrepancy between the salaries provided for the staffs of separate boys' schools and separate girls' schools by Part II of the Second Schedule of the Act is inequitable. Re the course of instruction in our schools : We beg to submit that the present syllabus is an excellent one, and t"hat little or no alteration is required in it; but should it be deemed necessary to make any modifications therein we desire to urge that the following principles should be kept prominently in view. Inasmuch as New Zealand is mainly a pastoral and agricultural country, the syllabus should be framed with a view to training farmers rather than bank clerks and office boys. Such subjects as nature-study and manual training should therefore receive a large amount of attention, even though such matters as refinement in penmanship, a knowledge of the advanced rules of arithmetic, and accuracy in the spelling of out-of-the-way words should have to be sacrificed somewhat in consequence. Our schools are too often criticized on lines which imply that the manufacture of clerks is the be-all and end-all of primary education. Far too much weight is frequently given to the opinions of merchants and bank-managers upon the products of our schools. Only about 15 per cent, at most of the children attending the primary schools pass afterwards to the secondary schools. The syllabus for the primary schools should therefore be drawn up so as to suit the requirements of the 85 per cent, who will have no other educational advantages, and not of the 15 per cent, who will be proceeding further. The course of work at the secondary schools should be adapted to fit in with the curriculum of the primary schools, and not vice versa. For example, no attempt should be made to reintroduce the teaching of so-called English grammar into the primary syllabus—in defiance of the expert opinion of every educationist of note who has written upon the subject during the last thirty or forty years —merely to facilitate the teaching of foreign languages on old-fashioned lines in some of our secondary schools. The present syllabus has greatly increased the interest of children in their school-work, thereby stimulating their intelligence, improving the attendance, and diminishing the tendency to play truant. Any further modifications should be in the direction of making the course of instruction still more concrete and practical, and even better adapted, if possible, to the stage of mental development reached by the children in our primary schools. We would suggest that the following minor alterations in the syllabus might be made: The course in arithmetic should be somewhat curtailed, especially for girls, be made more concrete, and be better distributed among the standards. The writing of compositions in correct English should be given more prominence, and less emphasis should be placed on the grammatical part of the subject, such as the analysis of sentences. The mathematical geography for Standards V and VI should be reduced, or else should be examined only orally. The amount of time devoted to B geography might be increased from eighty to 120 hours. Physical exercises lasting ten or fifteen minutes should be given on 'every school day, but military drill should be reduced to the formation of fours and a few easy company movements. Geometrical drawing should not be required from girls. Lectures on sexual physiology, such as those given by Mr. Bligh, should be given by men and women specially trained for the purpose, who should visit each school once in two or three years. 4. Mr. Wells."] Do you think the subject of sexual physiology can be satisfactorily dealt with in large classes'? —Yes. T say that after having heard Mr. Bligh lecture in my school on three occasions. Tn fact, I think it is more desirable that it should be dealt with in large classes. 5. The Chairman.] What is your own judgment as to the value of Mr. Bligh's lectures? — T think they have a very high value indeed —not so much for the matter he conveyed in the lectures as for the manly attitude towards the subject that he inculcated. I think his lectures were highly conducive to a manly and natural attitude.
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6. Mr. Wells.} Out of the 122 schools in your district how many- are in Grade 10?— I know of only one. Perhaps there are none now. 7. Then there is no school in the district carrying the highest salary : what effect has that upon the teachers of the district? —It diminishes, of course, their chance of promotion, and to that extent it must have an injurious effect upon the system generally. 8. Can you tell us anything about the ease or difficulty that your teachers experience in obtaining good positions in other districts? —They find as a rule that it is quite impossible for them to get into other districts. Therefore those who pass through our schools as pupil-teachers are careful at the end of their course not to return to Nelson, but to seek employment in larger districts. 9. Tf your district were incorporated with other districts, so that it would contain a fair proportion of the prizes of the profession, would the result be an improvement?—lt certainly would for our district. It would to a certain extent be detrimental to the bigger districts, which for that reason draw all the best teachers to themselves, but it would be to the advantage of Nelson. 10. Can you see any reason why your district should not be worked from Wellington as a centre? —I do not see any difficulty in the matter. 11. Mr. Kirk.] How are the schools in your district off for playgrounds? —On the whole they are well off. The Girls' School in Nelson City has not as good a playground as it should have, but throughout the country districts that I am most acquainted with nearly all the schools have good playgrounds. 12. What sort of desks have you in the schools? —That varies very much throughout the district. In the town we have dual desks throughout; but in a large number of the country schools the old-fashioned desks remain, but from time to time they are being replaced by the double desks. Ido not think there is much to complain of in that direction. 13. Mr. Poland.} Do you say that a number of small schools could be closed and the children could be conveyed to a central school?—ln a number of cases that could be done without any difficulty. In the Waiinea Plains district there are several schools only two miles apart. One great trouble in the smaller places is that it is almost impossible for the teachers to get decent accommodation in the neighbourhood. If the schools were brought to the larger centres that difficulty would be largely removed. 14. What means of conveyance would you have? —In many cases there are mail-carts going to these places daily. The adoption of rather larger conveyances would serve the purpose, and also lead to a certain amount of economy. I think covered wagons for the conveyance of the children could be easily arranged for. 15. Mr. Davidson.] What do you think is the cause of the unnecessary multiplicity of small schools in the district ?—Undoubtedly the desire of each locality to rise to the importance of having a school, and having another person in their midst with a little money to spend in the local stores, &c. 16. Would it not be due to some extent to the method of electing the members of the Education Boards? —Undoubtedly. That is the machinery 7by which the small schools come into existence. 17. Do you think it would be a wise plan to have the primary and secondary education in Nelson under the control of one authority?—l do not care to express an opinion under the particular circumstances prevailing in Nelson. 18. How would y 7 ou get over the difficulty of increasing the staffing of the schools, seeing that at the present time it is impossible to provide qualified teachers for the schools requiring them?— One way I suggest is that the pupil-teacher system should not be entirely abandoned. Although pupil-teachers are a very bad substitute for the trained teachers, nevertheless if first of all they had a little practical experience as pupil-teachers before passing to the training college the desired end would be attained, and at the same time a larger number of trained teachers would be obtained in the long-run, and in the meantime the work of the trained assistants already 7in the schools would be considerably lightened. 19. Given that the teachers were thoroughly competent, in what grade of school would you place the probationers? —Undoubtedly the larger the school the more opportunity the probationer would have of getting thorough instruction. In general terms it would be desirable to choose the larger schools. 20. Would it not be to the advantage of the probationer, given a thoroughly competent teacher, if he were placed in, say, a Grade 3 school? —It would be highly desirable for him to have part of his training in such, a school. 21. Would that not also tend to give country children greater opportunities to enter the teaching profession ? —lt certainly would. 22. And is not that a desirable thing?— Yes. 23. Mr. Pirani.} Do you know if any 7 special provision is made by your Board for the employment of its own students at the end of their terms at the training college ?—I think there are no regulations requiring the students to return to the Nelson District. 24. But does the Board take steps towards the end of the year to have places ready for those who wish to come back? —There are always plenty of places. I have heard the Inspectors complain bitterly that the system as it works at present robs Nelson of the trained teachers who are sent forward. There are a large number of vacancies which are not filled by those teachers. 25. What class of vacancies : anything above £90? —Yes, frequently. 26. What steps are taken to acquaint the students or the Principal of the Training College that they are available? —I am not aware that they take any, but the positions are advertised. 27. Considering that the students belong to your district, would it not be a proper thing for the Board to send to the Principal of the Training College, say, in September, a list of the positions available, and ask that any students in the College who desired to make application for
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those positions without competition should do it? —Yes. But I am afraid it would not be effective, because the students will recognize the advantages of going to the larger districts. I know from conversation with them that a, number of them would rather take lower positions in the Wellington District than a fairly- good position in Nelson. They consider that in the long-run they will be much better off. 28. Would it not be a proper thing to compel them to put in a certain number of years' service in the district they come from as a condition of going to the training college? —That would certainly tend to correct the evil, but I do not think it would be fair to the pupil-teachers themselves. It would be putting the Nelson pupil-teachers at a disadvantage as compared with those of the larger districts. 29. But if there were a system of Dominion promotion would there be any disadvantage? — No. On the contrary, a system of Dominion promotion would remove the evil immediately, because they would naturally prefer to come back to the district where their friends live. 30. As to the multiplication of small schools, do you not know that in some districts it is due to a large extent to political influence? —I have no first-hand knowledge of that. 31. If you abolish small schools what would you say is the extreme distance that children should be expected to travel by conveyance? —I do not know whether you could fix it always at the same distance. It would be very difficult, to fix a hard-and-fast rule. In cases where there are good roads they could be brought from considerable distances. 32. What would you say is the maximum time that children should be required to travel to school? —About three-quarters of an hour. David Kennedy examined on oath. (No. 188.) 1. The Chairman.] What is your position?—l am Rector of St. Patrick's College, Wellington, and have held that position for three years. Previous to that I was in charge of the Ecclesiastical Seminary at Meeanee. I was there for sixteen years, and in charge for about ten years. I am a Doctor of Divinity and a Bachelor of Arts of the Royal University, Ireland. 2. Have you any statement to make in regard to the subject-matter of our inquiry? —Yes. I wish, in the first place, to refer to free places and scholarships inasmuch as they affect private schools. Pupils attending private schools who obtain certificates of proficiency in the Sixth Standard are offered by the State free tuition for two years in a State secondary school. Moreover, in 1910 the Education Act was amended (sections 67 and 72) so as to allow pupils attending any school subject to inspection to compete for Education Board and National Scholarships, but no special provision was made to enable the winners of these scholarships to hold them in any but State secondary- schools. Hence, as the law stands at present, the pupils attending Catholic schools are allowed to compete for scholarships and free places, but they are not allowed to hold them in Catholic secondary- schools. Now, I wish to point out that this enactment, which appeared to many at first a great concession, and which was no doubt intended by the legislators to be a boon to private schools, is, on the contrary, extremely detrimental to private secondary schools. Let me take as an example St. Patrick's College, Wellington. More than 90 per cent, of the boys who enter that College come with proficiency certificates entitling them to free places in a secondary school, but they are debarred from holding them in St. Patrick's College. They are practically penalized because they attend a Catholic College. Again, every year thirty boys on an average from St. Patrick's College pass the Junior Civil Service Examination, and thereby qualify for a senior free place or free tuition in a secondary school up to the age of nineteen, but they are debarred from holding these free places in the College from which they qualified for them. It is therefore quite evident that if the pupils in Catholic primary and secondary schools were to avail themselves of free places and scholarships in the only way in which they are now open to them —that is, by attending the State secondary schools—we should have to close up our Catholic secondary schools for want of pupils. Now, we cannot suppose that this was the object -aimed at by those who framed this enactment and placed it on the statute-book. It is incredible that in this enlightened century a body of honourable and intelligent men would pass such oppressive legislation. Besides, I know for a fact that the gentleman who proposed the amendment throwing open scholarships to children attending private schools intended the scholarships to be tenable at private secondary schools moreover, he and several other members of Parliament were under the impression when the amendment was carried that this was provided for in the Act. Through some oversight they failed to realize that they were passing an enactment extremely detrimental to the very schools it was proposed to benefit. A mistake has been made which should be rectified at the earliest convenient opportunity. Objections may be made in certain quarters to this small measure of justice being granted to Catholics. It may be said that Catholic schools are denominational, and therefore cannot receive scholars or pupils whose tuition fees are paid by the State. But there are two denominational schools in the Dominion in which the scholarships I have referred to are tenable, and have been held for many years. They are Christ's College Grammar School, Christchurch, and the Wanganui Collegiate School. Let me quote a few extracts from the prospectuses of these two Colleges to prove that they are denominational. In an extract from the deed of foundation of Christ's College in 1855, quoted in. the first page of the College prospectus, we read : " We do hereby found the said College to the honour and glory of the Eternal Trinity, for the propagation of the most holy Christian religion, as it is now professed and taught, by the United Church of England and Ireland." This College is therefore distinctly denominational in its aim. It is also denominational in the means taken to attain its end, for, to quote again from the prospectus : " There is a short morning service in the chapel at 8.30 a.m. on all week-days. . . . Morning school opens daily, and on Saturday closes, with prayers." The staff includes a reverend chaplain, and the course of studies includes divinity. The warden and chairman of the Board of Governors is the Bishop of Christchurch, and the headmaster is
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an Anglican clergyman. So much for Christ's College. As regards the Wanganui College, the chief trustee is the Bishop of Wellington, the headmaster is an Anglican clergyman, a reverend chaplain is included in the staff, and divinity forms part of the course of studies. "All boys," to quote from the College prospectus, "living in the master's houses are required to attend'the chapel services on Sundays, Wednesdays, and Fridays. Day boys must attend the Wednesday and Friday services, unless the parents object on religious grounds. Religious instruction is given in each form every week by the chaplain and headmaster." These two schools are therefore distinctly denominational in the full sense of the word. And yet, according to the prospectus of each school, Board of Education Scholarships are tenable 'in these schools, and they have been held there for many years. In the Christ's College prospectus (page 6) we read : " The Junior and Senior Scholarships given by the Board of Education are tenable in the school," and in the Wanganui College prospectus it is stated that " Boys qualifying for Education Board Scholarships pay no tuition fees." It will perhaps be said, as it has been said, that these two schools, although denominational, enjoy this privileged treatment because they are endowed It that is so, then the reason why Catholic schools are denied similar treatment is not because they are denominational, but because they are unendowed, because they are poor "To him that hath more shall be given, and he shall abound ; but from lam that hath not shall be taken away even that which he seemeth to have." It may also be objected that to allow State scholarships and free places to be held at private schools would be tantamount to granting them State aid and would be the thin end of the wedge to shatter our secular system of education ; but it is not so considered m New South Wales, Victoria, and Queensland, where State bursaries are open to all and are tenable in any certificated or approved secondary school, whether public or private As a matter of fact, to allow a pupil to hold a scholarship or free place at a private secondary school is to grant aid not to the school, but to the pupil or his parents. The amount of the scholarship may be paid directly to the scholar's parents, as is done in some cases, or, if it is paid directly to the school, the amount is deducted from the scholar's school expenses It is the pupil, not the school, that receives State aid. Even now Maori pupils are allowed to hold scholarships in Catholic secondary schools, and no objection is made on the ground that State aid is being given to denominational schools. Will it be maintained that the colour or nationality of a pupil determines whether the.school fees paid for him by the State are State aid or not'? And why should pupils be penalized in this respect because they are the children of white parents? 1 have said that no special provision has been made to enable those who obtain scholarships or ree places to hold them in any but State secondary schools, yet it seems to me that the Education Act provides for the case in a general way, and that the Catholic grievance in the matter could be easily redressed without the necessity of further legislation. In section 67 (2) it is stated that "the holder of a Board Scholarship shall receive the annual amount of his scholarship only so long as he prosecutes his studies to the satisfaction of the Board at a secondary school or itsequivalent approved by the Board"; and in section 72 (a) it is stated that the ho der of a Junior National Scholarship shall be required to prosecute „£ studies dSfgentty to approved bvT B d T« ° V^T l °r Sch °° lS ' &t & SeCOlldai 7 sch ° ol °. r its Sivllent approved by the Board and the Minister. It is to be regretted that no legal interpretation of < 1S g,Ve , n m i he , Ac * itselL The A °* g™ ™ the meaning of " econdary school (section 89) + as an endowed school or a high school established under section 94 hereof " but we are left to determine the meaning of the word " equivalent " from the context Now the plain, obv.ous meaning of the word in the sentence in which it occurs is " a schoo gX an efficient secondary education." In support of this view I may say that members of both Houses ome of them lawyers, have assured me that such is the evident meaning of the word and That 51£2 t 7, Ed " cat T * o "** have understood the word in that sense, and have in consequence allowed scholarships to be held n Catholic secondary schools approved by them. A tWd Educa IZ^Tc U tT° Oa "*"? WOT \ same '" a *d herded to allow I pupil to hold a Sarment or t> S-'/t 0011 r V S f ool > bu * their decisi ™ »« overruled by the Education Depart**m to me to bear I sugge.t th.t the Act should be .mended «o a. to make «d ol "hin, eSb c dozens fr t" in -^^s^ar^sfiss °°L I 8 fTα , PoWer - ° f making re £" lations -ith regard to free places be understood to com prise that of determining, amongst other things, how and where free places may be held? The applied at present it aims a death-blow at Catholic secondary schools Wa for no fal? make a few remarks to correct an erroneous impression which seems to be prevalent? Tis
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commonly believed that we Catholics want to get rid of the present system of education, and to -induce the State to pay for the teaching of religion. What we really want is to broaden and deepen the present system, to make it thoroughly national by bringing all secular education under State control, and by having secular education, and secular education only, paid for by ■the State, wherever and by whomsoever it is given, to the satisfaction of the State. The State, as such, has no religion, consequently cannot teach religion, and cannot order religion to be taught by any one. But the State is not hostile to religion, and should not refuse to pay for a sound secular education because religious training is given as well. Suppose two schools on opposite sides of the street, one a public school, the other a private school. In both secular instruction of precisely the same character is given. Why should not the State pay for the secular tuition in both, even if in one of them Methodism, or Presbyterian ism, or Catholicism be taught? In the two schools the State could have precisely the same control as regards secular instruction prescribe the same curriculum, examine the teachers presented by the private school as well as those in the public school, examine the work, and pay for it when it is done, and not pay for it when it is not done. What would be the result of this method? Those who are satisfied with the education system as it is would find it precisely the same as before. The schools where no religion is taught would remain. Those who want to have religion taught in the schools would build schools at their own expense and in accordance with the requirements of the education authorities, and would offer to the School Boards teachers whose qualifications to teach the secular branches could be examined and approved by them. The State would pay for the secular instruction, and for the secular instruction only, given in both schools, the 'religious training being provided by those who want it at their own expense. It seems strange to me that other bodies of Christians, who are now crying out for religion in the school, do not see the necessity of taking this logical common-sense view of the matter as a means of self-preservation and of making common cause with us, instead of depending on the haphazard reading of a chapter of the Bible, explained in many cases by those who do not believe in its sacred character. A system similar to the one I have outlined works satisfactorily in many countries, such as England, Germany, Holland, Newfoundland, and Canada. If such a method were adopted in New Zealand our present system of secular education would be broadened and made thoroughly national, and something like fair play and justice would be shown to all. As it is at present one-seventh of the population of the Dominion are excluded from the system on conscientious grounds, and are deprived of their rightful share of the public moneys voted for education because they cannot conscientiously divorce religion from education. The Catholics of New Zealand, by paying for the education of 12,600 of their children in addition to contributing by taxation'to the State system of education, are saving the State £62,000 a year. This estimate is based on the official figures published in the Year-book for 1911, and in the Report of the Education Department for 1910. The number of scholars (exclusive of Maoris) attending Catholic schools is given as 12,611 (Year-book, p. 141), and the cost of primary education per individual pupil is stated to be' £4 19s. 3d. (Report of Education Department, p. 61, Table N3). During the last thirty-five years the annual expenditure by Catholics on the education of their children has amounted to a total of considerably over a million pounds, and this does not include the cost of erection and maintenance of school buildings. A gift of £20,000 towards a Chair in a University excites sentiments and expressions of gratitude and of admiration for the generous donor. Strange to say, a gift of £60,000 a year to the people of New Zealand in the cause of education meets with little recognition. While saying this I wish to acknowledge most gratefully the unfailing courtesy and kindness shown us by the officers of the Education Department, who have been always willing and ready to help us in every possible way. To the Inspectors especially we owe a deep debt of gratitude for the kindly interest they have taken in our schools, and the encouragement and help they have given to our teachers, but the bulk of the people and, with some rare exceptions the Press give us very little sympathy and no support, In conclusion, may I be permitted to quote two recent pronouncements by educational authorities in favour of our claim. Professor J. J. Findlay, of the Manchester University, in his book "The School" (p. 104), says: "Where a separate group in a neighbourhood exists holding views of religion and life quite distinct from those of the majority, and numerous enough to provide children for a school, it is an act of tyranny for the State to enforce-an alien culture on the children. In any the pressure of the majority outside the school will exercise some influence over the young, and the State has no right, simply because of its dependence on a majority vote, to stamp out the individuality of of a dissent which adheres to old creeds or a dissent which proclaims a new evangel. The test of the claim which such a minority makes is its willingness to make sacrifices for that which it holds dear. If the patrons of such institutions are willing to ' put their hands in their pockets,' if the teachers are willing to sacrifice some part of their emolument, or if the parents are willing to forego some advantages in secular instruction for the sake of those greater things in creed and conduct which they cherish, under such conditions it is the clear duty of a statesman not to crush but to lend a generous hand in maintenance. So long as the separatist school conforms honestly to the minimum requirements of a code, so long, that is to say, as a schooling is afforded which enables the child to keep step in tolerable fashion with the public standards of culture, the demands of the State are satisfied." Another University professor, Professor McKenzie, of Victoria College, who cannot be regarded as prejudiced in our favour, is reported in the daily Press to have said a few days ago in a public lecture that " he had no ob'iection to the State paying a liberal capitation to Catholic Church schools for secular services in education on the condition that the schools be on the lines of State schools in the matter of the standard, salary of teachers, inspection, teachers' superannuation, &c, the capitation to be about two-thirds of that paid to State schools " (New Zealand Times, 9th July, 1912). This is practically what we desire. I think the time has come when our claim should receive calm and
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sympathetic consideration, and I feel confident that if our demands are put clearly and candidly before the public they will meet with very general support. 3. Mr. Pirani.] Do you give free places at all in the College?— No. 4. Have you ever given free places?— There may have been an exceptional case given for .special reasons. 5. What fees are you charging at the College?— Nine guineas for clay pupils, reduced to £9 if paid in advance. 6. Are you aware that for a number of years the Wanganui Collegiate School has given free tuition, without payment by the State, to every child that qualified for a scholarship?—l was not aware of that. 7. And that that was the inducement given to the Education Board to have their scholarships held at the Collegiate School ?—I was not aware of that. 8. And that there are more than three times as many scholarship pupils in the Collegiate School in regard to whom the school receives no monetary assistance /than those who pay ? —I was not aware of that. 9. You do not know that the free places given there are really not a matter between the Government and the Collegiate School? —I did not know that. 10. In regard to the payment for free-place pupils in other institutions —there are none in the Wanganui Collegiate School —I suppose you are aware that the payment of £12 10s. a year is to cover more than the actual instruction ?—Yes, certainly, because we charge only £9 a year for instruction. 11. You think it would be a fair thing that you should be paid just the amount you charge for fees?—We would be quite satisfied with that. Brother Justin examined on oath. (No. 189.) 1. The Chairman] What is your position?—l am in charge of the Brothers' Primary School at Tasman Street, and have been there five years and a half. Previous to that I was teaching in Auckland and New South Wales. 2. Have you any statement to make in regard to the subject-matter of our inquiry?— Yes. First, as to the selection of teachers : A person's right to instruct children should be obtained after a period of probation, during which time he must satisfy the Inspectors that he is competent to successfully control, discipline, and teach a class. At present too much importance is attached to the amount of knowledge a person can display at a written examination for which he has specially crammed, with the evil result that children sometimes spend several years under the care of people who, though scholars themselves, have not the moral influence and skilful methods that go so far to build up the life of a pupil. After fulfilling such a test teachers should be encouraged to go on in their career by being rewarded for obtaining higher certificates. Payment should be for a person's merit as an educator, and as teachers are in a great measure in loco parentis we should not lose sight of the fact that their work is that of a vocation rather than of a profession. Due regard to this selection of teachers would facilitate matters in all schools, and pupils would not suffer by frequent changes from teachers capable of moulding and controlling them to those incompetent in such matters, but who owe their position to their powers in cramming for examinations. Handwriting :In a country like this, where industries are formulating and families so often moving, a child's handwriting suffers in consequence of frequent changes of style. A uniform system of handwriting would thus be a welcome improvement. Grammar : Formal grammar should be given a place in the syllabus. The use of the verb and the cases of nouns should be treated more fully in order to make composition intelligent, whilst the rules of syntax applied to the correction of sentences would ensure correctness of speech and afford sound mental training. Again, ignorance of English grammar is the great stumbling-block to the beginner in Latin. Ability to construe an English sentence should not be treated less highly than ability to construe a Latin one. Mental arithmetic and oral composition :A. greater demand for mental arithmetic as applied to the calculations of ordinary everyday life, together with more practice in oral composition, would produce those habits of clear thought and expression which are so much in need at the present time. Physical training : The physical training of the boys of the primary schools should be on different lines from those followed now. The military drill as given to the Junior Cadets is not suitable for developing the young boy or curing him of the many physical defects he is liable to. It is not interesting, attractive, or refreshing to boys, but instead has a deadening effect on them owing to its mechanical methods. Physical culture should mean recreation as well as exercise. Apart from recreation exercise loses half its value to the young, who require lively but not prolonged exercises. Give them a well-graduated course of physical exercises such as have been in use for the past few years in the schools of the British Isles, and which are found to be far superior to the monotonous drill formerly- given and which we in New Zealand still adhere to. These exercises are taken from the Swedish or Ling system, and are so arranged that the different members of the body are properly exercised and developed. In speaking of this method Sir J. H. Yoxall, President of th - National Union of Teachers, says: " Swedish drill is not only hygienic, but one might almost say medical and surgical in its operation. It strengthens the spine, it, reduces inequalities in the height of the shoulders, it helps the natural functions of the body, and is in every way superior to the military course which was foisted upon the schools." Now that compulsory military service is the law of the land military drill could well be let alone until boys leave the primary school. It is admitted that the Senior Cadets of the present are the most difficult to handle, and one of the reasons is that drill has become stale to them; they are now going through the same old movements they performed at school, and in a better way too. If this drill and the handling of a rifle had the charm of novelty the Senior Cadets would probably enter into it more earnestly and be more amenable to dis-
BBOTHEB JUSTIN.]
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cipline. Injustice to Catholics: In conclusion, I respectfully wish to draw your attention to the grave injustice under which the Catholics of New Zealand are labouring in connection with the education of their children. Owing to the State insisting on a purely secular system of education Catholics were forced to start out on their own, as they could not in conscience accept a system which gave a child no knowledge of its Creator or of its duties towards Him. They are thus obliged at considerable expense to build and maintain schools of their own without receiving in return one penny of the money which they contribute in taxation for educational purposes. At the present time the Catholics of this Dominion have 150 primary schools, in which 12,600 children are receiving instruction. These schools are under Government inspection, and from Inspectors' reports it may be seen that the secular instruction they give is quite up to the standard of that given in State schools. In maintaining these schools the Catholics of New Zealand save the State at least £50,000 per annum —a sum sufficient to erect the new Parliament Buildings—while during the last thirty years they have saved the State not less than £1,000,000, or half the cost of the New Zealand "Dreadnought." And what does the State give the Catholic school-children in return for all this? Absolutely nothing—not even free class-books or School Journals for the benefit of their minds, or capitation grant to encourage them to exercise their bodies in learning to swim. Catholics do not ask or expect payment for the religious education of their children, but they may in all justice demand a refund of that money which the State obliges them to contribute towards the support of schools which their duties towards God and their children prevent them from using. Sir Robert Stout examined on oath. (No. 190.) 1. The Chairman.] You are Chief Justice of New Zealand, and an educationist of great standing : are you in a position to make any comparison between the standard of education imparted in the secondary and primary schools to-day and that given when you yourself administered the portfolio of Education? —I am not familiar with the working of the schools at present— that is, I have not visited them. All I can say is that I had my boys at the ordinary 7 district schools until they had passed the Sixth Standard, and after that they went to the Wellington College. I know what they were taught, and I should imagine that the standard of education in the primary 7 and secondary schools to-day was equal to what it was in the early days. I notice, however —and I do not know who is to blame —that in the Courts our young people do not pronounce English as it used to be pronounced. 2. Would you ascribe that to environment or to the failure of the schools to teach English properly? —It may be environment. Of course, we know it is very bad in Sydney, and that Robert Louis Stevenson in one of his books gave the Sydney dialect. I think that in New Zealand the defect in pronunciation I refer to is worse in the North than it is in the South. 3. Would you ascribe that to the comparative closeness of Auckland to Sydney?—lt may be, but I think it is a very great pity that we do not speak English as it used to be spoken. 4. We have had some very pronounced opinions given as to the failure of the primary-school teacher to inculcate the lessons of obedience in respect of law and order, and the higher ideals on the part of children especially with reference to their general respect to their elders. Can you say anything on these points? —I do not think that children are any worse in that respect than they used to be. To give an illustration : I went out some weeks ago to Seatoun, and in the car were a lot of schoolboys and schoolgirls, and I was very much struck with the wav in which both the boys and girls offered their seats to older people. I have not seen anything to make me think that children are worse brought up now than they were forty or fifty- years ago. 5. We have been told a great deal about the lack of parental control to-day as compared ' with that which was exercised years ago ?—That may be in some cases in towns where the children get out unduly at night, but lam not competent to speak about it. I have not seen any change in that direction. Ido not think it is any worse than it used to be. 6. You have given a good deal of attention to the results of education in the forming of character in different parts of the world, and also in respect to our own body politic in regard to the commitment of crime. Would you kindly tell the Commission the results of your study and reading in respect to these aspects of the question?—My opinion is that since our system of secular education was established there has been a steady decrease in crime. It is also my opinion that there is a decrease in immorality; the decrease in crime, at all events has been very marked. The best way to test the matter is by the figures which I have here, obtained from the Government Statistician. I have, in the first place, taken the distinct convicted prisoners of under twenty years of age who have been received in gaol. That, of course, deals with juvenile crime, and our statistics do not allow me to go back further than 1887—that is, ten years after the Education Act was passed. I will give the statistics in this form : Distinct convicted prisoners under twenty years of age received in gaol : — Prisoners Proportion per 10,000 * ear ' received Mean Po P"lation of All Ages. 1887 220 3-69 1892 ... ... ... ... ... 140 2-18 1897 125 1-73 •' 1902 ... ... ... ■ ... 109 1-37 1907 ... ... ... ... ... no i-20 1908 124 1-31 1909 ' ... 98 1-01 1910 ... ... ... ... 100 1-01 1911 • 85 o'B3
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Now I will take the prisoners of all ages received into gaol, and the figures are, — Year Prisoners j Proportion per 10,000 received. of Mean Population. 1887 ... ... ... ... ... 2,639 44/25 1892 ... ... ... ... ... 2,164 3369 1897 ... ... ... ... ... 1,884 26-11 1902 ... ... ... ... ... 2,396 30-03 1907 ... ... ... ... ... 3,091 3363 1908 ... ... ... . ... ... 3,009 31-84 1909 ... ... ... ... ... 3,159 32-51 1910 ... ... ... ... ... 3,242 2835 1911 ... ... ... ... ... 2,877 2835 So that of prisoners of under twenty years of age the proportion per 10,000 of population has fallen in twenty-four years from 369 to o'B3, whilst the proportion of adult prisoners has fallen in the same peiiod from 4425 to 2835 per 10,000 of population. Now I will take the New-Zealand-born convicted prisoners received in gaol, and 1 take the proportion to pei 10,000 of New-Zealand-born population over twenty- years of age. That is the only way to test it, because the New-.Zealand-born population is rapidly increasing. Distinct New-Zealand-born convicted prisoners received in gaol : — Proportion per 10,000 of Year. New Zealand-born Population over Twenty Years of Age. 1887 - ... 6924 1892 •: 42-60 1897 ... ... ... ... ... ... ... 37-57 1902 36-31 1907 ... ... ... ... ... ... ... 37-30 1908 3566 1909 - 38-51 1910 40-11 19H 31-44 So that now, relatively, the proportion of crimes against New-Zealanders over twenty years of age has fallen in the same period—that is, twenty-four years —from 6924 per 10,000 to 3144, which, as you will see, is not a half. Then, if you go into the matter of illegitimate births, you will find that the illegitimate births per 1,000 of unmarried women in 1886 was 10-70, in 1906 it was 972, but for every 100 births the proportion of the illegitimates was in 1900 463, and in 1909 4;61; and if you will look through a long series of years you will see that the tendency has been, if anything, downwards. If we compare our illegitimates with the other colonies it will be found that Tasmania, Victoria, New South Wales, and Queensland are all higher—in fact, New South Wales is nearly double under the first head. In 1905 it was 16-24 against our South Australia is slightly under, but very little, and Western Australia is slightly under, but probably the number of unmarried women in that State relatively to the total population is smaller than is the case in New Zealand. The only way we can judge is by statistics, and they show that, so far as New Zealand is concerned, crime and illegitimacy have decreased marvellously. Then it may be said, But what of other countries where there has been inaugurated secular education ? The only other country I have been able to get the proper details of is France. In that country the secular system of education was introduced in the " nineties," and I find from their statistics that the same thing has happened there as happened in New Zealand. I take the number per 1,000 of prisoners sentenced by the Assize Courts—that is, the superior Courts—for indictable offences: — Year. Number per Proportion to 1000. Population. 1873 77 390 1 87 8 S 82 330 1883 ... ... ... ... ... 8 7 3 . 08 1888 92 296 1893 ... 97 , 260 1898 .o 1903 ... ;;; B .{; In what may be called small convictions, that include breaches of the by-laws and all pettyoffences, there was an increase between 1883 and 1897, but since that year there has been a decrease. In 1883 it was 204 per 1,000, from 1888 to 1892 it was 216, from 1893 to 1897 it was 221, from 1898 to 1902 it was 193, and from 1903 to 1906 it was 194. Perhaps the best way to take it is to take the number of people in gaol in France extending over a long series of years and the number in what we call reformatory schools. When these figures are considered it will be found that as in New Zealand the decrease in France has followed the introduction of the secular system of education. I have before me the annual statistics published in 1908—the last available. _ In 1881, which was before the secular system was introduced, the number of lads and girls in the reformatory establishments throughout France was 6,777 boys and 1 637 girls • in 1882 there were 6,256 boys and 1,545 girls; in 1883 there were 6,373 boys and l'sol girls' m 1884 there were 5,661 boys and 1,318 girls. The numbers have never risen to 6 000 'since then' In the last six years for which statistics are available the numbers are : 1901 boys 3 568 girls
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690; 1902, boys 3,182, girls 561; 1903, boys 2,897, girls 468; 1904, boys 2,653, girls 471; 1905, boys 2,521, girls 475; 1906, boys 2,657, girls 618. You will see from these figures that there has been a reduction of more than half. Then the great progress of education in France has to be noted. In 1870 the percentage of illiterates—that is, those in the population that could neither read nor write —was 2T49 per cent., whilst in 1905 the percentage was 5 - 20. Therefore the statement that is sometimes made that secular education has had a bad effect on the people is disproved. I might also mention that I have here the illiteracy records of conscripts in France dating back for eleven years, and the reduction has been from 180 per 1,000 down to 52 per 1,000 in the latest year. So far, therefore, as we can see by statistics there has not been a bad result from secular education; on the contrary, the improvement has been unmistakable. If you take those countries in which there is religious instruction in schools you will find that they do not compare favourably with the results I have given you. Then, again, if you are to have Bible-reading, as some people ask, what is it that is to be given ? It is only a section of the community that is asking for it, though, no doubt, that section consists of the majority of the clergy of the religious bodies. The Roman Catholics are opposed to it, and the High Anglicans are opposed to it, and if the Congregatioiialists are of the same opinion here as they are at Home they are opposed to it, and so are many of the Baptists. I think the best statement of the High Anglican position is perhaps that given by Gladstone in his article " Heresy and Schism " in the Contemporary in 1894. At page 303, in " Later Gleanings," Mr. Gladstone says: " The Church, disabled and' discredited by her divisions, has found it impracticable to assert herself as the universal guide. Among the fragments of the body a certain number have special affinities, and in particular regions or conjunctures of circumstances it would be very easy to frame an undenominational religion much to their liking, divested of many salient points needful in the view of historic Christendom for a complete Christianity. Such a scheme the State might be tempted to authorize by law in public elementary teaching—nay, to arm it with exclusive and prohibitory powers as against other and more developed methods which the human conscience, sole legitimate arbiter in these matters, together with the spirit of God, may have devised for itself in the more or less successful effort to obtain this guidance. It is in this direction that we have recently been moving, and the motion is towards a point where a danger-signal is already lifted. Such an undenominational religion as this could have no promise of permanence : none from authority, for the assumed right to give it is the negation of all authority; none from piety, for it involves at the very outset the surrender of the work of the Divine Kingdom into the hands of the civil ruler; none from policy, because any and every change that may take place in the sense of the constituent bodies, or any among them, will supply for each successive change precisely the same warrant as was the groundwork of the original proceeding. Whatever happens, let Christianity keep its own acts to its own agents, and not make them over to hands which would justly be deemed profane and sacrilegious when they came to trespass on the province of the sanctuary." If you read Morley's " Life of Gladstone " you will find in Volume ii, page 300, that Gladstone was really favourable to a system of secular education, and wrote Lord Grey to that effect. Mr. Camp-bell-Bannerman took the same view. lam citing these men because they are not men whom you can say are anti-Christian, but are all members of Christian churches. Another high Churchman, Mr. D. C. Lathburv, in an article in the Westminster Gazette some time ago, said that Biblereading would not be satisfactory because it would be no settlement of the religious difficulty at all. Charles Kingsley, a broad Churchman, took up the same view in 1869. In 1902 the Congregational Union of Great Britain passed a resolution stating that there could be no final solution of the difficulty in regard to national education until the State laid aside all claims to interfere with religious education, and left to parents and Churches the responsibility for the same; and unless the Congregationalists have forgotten the principles for whion their fathers fought they cannot assent to the teaching of religion by the State. The old Independents would have repudiated such action. I may say that religious people in other countries have taken the same view. In the earliest days of the United States, in the time of Puritanism, that was the view taken by the leaders of the people. James Maddison said that " religion was not in the purview of human Government," and President Grant said later, " Leave the matter of religion to the family altar, the Church, and the private school; keep the Church and State for ever separate." I do not see how, if we are to have Bible-reading, we would not have teachers selected solely for their religious opinions. We know it has happened in England that teachers have not been able to get promotion because of religious opinions held by them. There is the well-known case of Mr. F. G. Gould, a teacher under the London Board. He was called upon to teach the Bible, and did so, keeping clear of miracles and things he did not himself believe. It was discovered what his religious opinions were, and Mr. Diggle came to him, and the result was that he was removed from that school and appointed to an inferior school. He then applied not to be asked to teach the Bible. That request was complied with, but he never got promotion. If you teach the Bible in schools in New Zealand you will have struggles by religious bodies to get in teachers of their particular denomination. You would have the State education system denominationalistic, and that would be a great injury to the teachers and to the people. A teacher who did not accept the current theological views would have either to be a hypocrite, and prevent his belief being known, or else he would have to suffer, and go out of the profession. My other point is that there is no need to have the Bible for moral instruction. In the first place it is admitted there are many portions of the Bible that are unsuitable for study by children. That is proved by the fact that it is proposed by many people to have a text-book of extracts. If the Bible is the basis of morality, it is not asked that the whole Bible should be used for the teaching of morality. We have to teach children to be honest, truthful, and kind, and if we succeed we have instructed them ethically. I may add that ethical teaching has not been neglected by those who do not believe in Bible-reading. I have with me four text-books recommended by the Moral Education League,
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edited and prepared by Mr. Gould, and I think if you look through these moral lessons you will see they are preferable to anything you can glean from the Bible. They are not religious. These lessons begin with stating there are four kinds of people: people who do right for fear of pain; people who.do right for fear of the prison; people who do right for fear of sinning; and, lastly, and the best class of all, those who do right because it is right to do so. The series give many valuable lessons, and I leave them for your perusal. There is also a series of books prepared by Jules Steeg, a member of the Reformed Church of France, and therefore a Presbyterian, for use in French schools for moral teaching, and I. think them admirable. I leave the one for secondary and normal schools. 7. Have you anything to say regarding a course of civics? —There is a book on the subject written by Mr. Pope, which I think would be very valuable indeed for secondary schools. May I add that so far as religious instruction in schools is concerned the position may be put thus : If it is not the right of the State to teach religion, then it has no right to teach it to children. If it is right that the State should teach religion to children, then it cannot stop at teaching it to children; it should also teach religion to parents. That is the logical position. To say that you cannot teach morality without the Bible is, in my opinion, a gross absurdity. There are many nations that have existed for centuries without a knowledge of the Hebrew Bible. I yield to no one in my appreciation of many parts of the Bible. I have read it many times, but at the same time I say that if the Bible should, as asked, be introduced into the schools because of the beauties of its literature, then young children under fourteen years of age cannot understand the beauties of literature. It is argued that there can be no morality without the Hebrew Scriptures, and that morality must be based on religion. Ido not accept that position, and Ido not think that the State can accept that position unless we are to have a State Church and a State religion. I would just like to mention one additional fact. I find that nearly half of our crime arises from overindulgence in alcoholic liquor, and if all those people who are advocating Bible in schools would become teetotalers and set such an example I believe they would do more good than by introducing the Bible into the schools. If they believe in the ethics taught in the Scriptures, how they can do other than follow what Paul said in I Corinthians, Bth chapter and 13th verse, when he was referring to meat offered to idols—namely, " If meat make my brother to offend, I will eat no meat wjrile the world standeth, lest I make my brother to offend." If we had that ethical principle carried out in, the community, and all people became total abstainers, immorality would be reduced and crime would be reduced. And if we taught our children the ethics of St. Paul, what would they think of the religious men who ignored Paul's teaching? 8. Mr. Wells.] Have you given any thought at all to the teaching of sex physiology to the elder boys and girls?—l do not think it should be taught in classes, but perhaps the teacher might speak to the elder boys and girls about it—a male teacher to boys and a female teacher to girls. It is a matter that requires very careful consideration. At the same time I quite agree that something should be taught to our children about that matter, because there is no doubt that many of them do wrong without knowing they are doing wrong. 9. Do you think the work should be intrusted to special instructors?—lt would be far better that it should be so. 10. Do you think there should be anything in the nature of the curfew bell, in order to keep the children off the streets at nights? —Our country is different to a country which has a colder climate. The only thing is to try and train the parents to fulfil their duties. 11. Do you think that the kindergarten should be encouraged?—l think that is very desirable indeed. - 12. Mr. Kirk.] We were informed by a lady teacher of one of the large schools here that she had been told by many of the parents that the.) 7 desired the Bible to be taught in schools because they had no time to teach it, to their children at home? —Why should not the clergy do it? When I was a member of the Committee of the Arthur Street School we allowed the clergymen to use the school for Bible-instruction purposes out of school hours. I do not see why- the Churches should not be used for the purpose of instructing children as well as for preaching to adults. 13. Do you think it is possible that there is any justification for any person saying that he or she has no time to teach the children the Bible? —It all depends on what they call " no time." They may go to the pictures or other places and then say they have no time. I admit at once that there are many parents who are unable to teach their children in Biblical matters. I feel sure that if the Churches were asked to provide the instruction of the children they would do so. That is surely their function. 14. A recent cablegram from France stated that the death-rate was in excess of the birthrate : has that any significance in connection with the figures you have given ?—I do not think so. I have given the proportion per thousand. 15. What about Germany? —With regard to Germany you must understand that the increase in population has not taken place in the country districts. It has been almost entirely in the cities. It is the industrial development that has been responsible for Germany's increase in population. From 1870 to the present day I believe that the country districts of Germany have not increased in population, and that the birth-rate of Berlin is as low to-day as that of Paris. 16. Is there any significance to be attached to it morally?— No. There is a fall in the birthrate of the well-to-do. You will find the same thing if you analyse the birth-rate of the various divisions of London. The lowest birth-rate is in the divisions where the well-to-do reside, not in the slums. 17. Mr. Poland] Do you think that the standard of education in the primary schools is higher to-day than it was twenty years ago? —I have not been sufficiently acquainted with the working of the primary schools of recent years to be able to give an opinion. All T can say is that my youngest boy, under Mr. McMorran, at the Terrace School, was just as well educated as
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we could have expected a boy in the past to have been educated, and he was able to matriculate after two years at a secondarj 7 school at the age of fourteen. 18. Mr. Pirani] With regard to the passing-on of children from the primary school to the secondary-school free places, would you do that on the opinion of the headmaster and the Inspector instead of by a set examination? —I should prefer the examination. 19. Mr. Davidson] Have you noticed that in Auckland there are 545 schools with an attendance of 39,000 children, and in Westland there are thirty-five schools with an attendance of a little over a thousand, and in Grey there are thirty-five schools with an attendance of less than five thousand ? Do you think that there should be any reorganization of the school districts? —I have all along held that Grey and Westland should have been combined. They should never have been separated. The present arrangement does not give a fair chance to teachers. 20. There are so very few large schools in these districts that the teachers have little or no chance of promotion?— That is so. 21. Would you favourably consider a proposal to have a Dominion scheme of promotion of teachers ?—To do that would be practically to abolish the Boards, and I do not think that is wise. 22. Mr. Pirani] Have you seen it suggested that we should have a reform in the way of having a central Council, with four or six Education Boards for the Dominion, and School Committees under those Boards ? —lf the central Council is to be merely consultative I should not object, but I think it would be unwise to create a new Council for a central government of education. I think a consultative Council, meeting perhaps for a week twice a year, and consisting of the heads of the Education Boards, and perhaps representatives of the Teachers' Institute, would meet the purpose. That might generally benefit education by creating enthusiasm for it. I would not like to see a central authority for any subject. I like to have, if possible, a diffusion of power. lam a Provincialist or Federalist. 23. Do you believe in the present system under which the Education Department ignores the Education Boards and convenes conferences of Inspectors at one time and secondary teachers at another, without even asking the Boards if the conferences are convenient to them and their officers? —I suppose they were in the nature of consultative conferences. 24. Do you call that giving a measure of local control? —I would not like to criticize, as Ido not know the facts. I think all the authorities connected with education should work together as harmoniously as possible. I have always upheld the need for Boards. I think it tends to make education popular—to make the people feel that they have an interest in it. To have the control centralized would tend to weaken the enthusiasm for education. 25. Do you not think it is a proper thing, if there is -any central authority, for them to take steps to consult the Boards ?—I have no doubt that if the matter were brought before whoever happens to be Minister of Education he would see that the Boards were consulted. If you had a consultation of the Chairmen of the Boards and perhaps one other member selected by each Board, and two or three Inspectors and two or three representative teachers, it would be a very valuable thing. 26. Would you consider this a proper statement to emanate from the Department: The Secretary for Education says in reference to Boards, " To one who can review the educational history of the past thirty years the answer is plain—the Boards are incapable of taking a national view of any question. The centralizing tendency is due not to the Department, as is generally supposed, but to the inherent weakness of the Boards themselves. Each Board acts as though its particular corner were an independent State. The result of the first half-century of their administration was the deplorable condition of teachers' salaries that had to be rectified by withdrawing from the manipulation of the Boards about 80 per cent, of their income." Is that a proper statement? —All I can say is that when I was a member of an Education Board or a School Committee I and my fellow-members did all we could to help the teachers. I cannot speak of what had been done since then. 27. In your connection with Education Boards have you ever come across any " manipulation " of funds that would justify what is stated in that extract?— There may be cases, but 1 have no knowledge of them. 28. The Chairman] If it were thought advisable to add to the responsibilities of Education Boards by giving them general control —mark the use of the word " general," as opposed to particular—over the primary, secondary, and technical education of their districts, do you not think that with an enlarged constituency returning members under a system of proportional representation those Boards would be likely to attract to their service men who have taken an interest in education, and who could be relied upon to serve the State well? —Anything that will create attention to education, so that the people shall feel that it is their affair, must be beneficial. If the Boards were elected under proportional representation I see no objection to that. I think we should especially consider the need of keeping the schools secular, whilst we do nothing to ruffle unnecessarily the feelings of very sincere people who are members of our various Churches. We should try to make them feel that we are looking upon all the children as fellow-citizens, and not allowing religious divisions to come in. That is why I should like to see on our Boards, as on the Universitj 7 Senate, the higher officers of some of the Churches. I should like to see our secular system so upheld that we might have a high idea of citizenship, and feel that none has a right to be looked down upon because of his religious views, whatever they might be. The schools should be used for the purpose of promoting brotherhood amongst citizens. 29. Mr. Kirk] Would you care to make any observations on, the place which in your opinion the classics should occupy in our secondary schools?—My opinion is that if a boy has a literary turn he ought to learn some classics. If he has not a literary turn it is useless for him to spend his time upon them. If he has literary instincts he should be able to read at least one language other than his mother-tongue. I should like to see every one knowing at least two languages. 30. The Chairman] Modern languages?—l do not say necessarily modern languages. I do not think he can appreciate his own language well unless he has studied more than one language.
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The only school I was ever in was only a parish school. In that school we began French at six or seven. I could read French very well at eight. We got Latin later, and those who wanted Greek began it at about thirteen. If we wanted to learn classics we had the opportunity. It was extra, and was taken in extra time. In summer we met at 7 a.m. and in winter at 8.30 a.m., and the ordinary work of the school began at 9.30. Generally those who desired to learn French or higher mathematics stayed for half an hour after school-hours. In a school of 120 or 130 we never nad less than ten or twelve in the classics or French. One of our scholars won a Greek bursary- at Aberdeen—and that was only a parish school. Alfbeb Db Bathe Brandon examined on oath. (No. 191.) 1. The Chairman] What is your position?—l am Chairman of the Board of Governors of the Wellington College and Girls' High School, and have held that office for some twelve years. 2. Will you state what you desire to bring before the Commission? —I should like to say by way of preface that, so far as the teaching at the schools is concerned, my principle has been to leave the entire responsibility for that to the Principals. My chief concern has been to make both ends meet in the way of finance. I have endeavoured to prevent expenditure as far as possible where the income was not obviously- coming in. I have sketched out a short statement of the principles which seem to me to govern the position so far as the Wellington Colleges (Boys' and Girls') are concerned. The income of the Colleges is limited to the revenue from endowments and the fees paid by pupils. Of the pupils the greater number are admitted under the system known as the free-place system, and the fees for those pupils are fixed by the Education Act. The number of teachers is governed to a great extent by the number of pupils, and the revenue from endowments being fixed, the greater the number of pupils the more dependent the salaries of the staff become upon the amount received from fees. To get the best efficiency in teaching the following factors must be considered: (1) Capacity and experience in the teachers; (2) classes of such a size as to permit the teacher to give attention to each pupil individually; (3) classes in such number as to enable both quick pupils and slow ones to progress from form to form without the one hindering the other, and without the slow ones being moved to a higher form in advance of their capacity. Of these factors, No. 1 indicates the payment of salaries sufficiently large to secure men of the capacity required, and Nos. 2 and 3 indicate that the staff should err on the side of a small proportion of pupils to teacher. To ensure success, therefore, good salaries must be paid, and the proportion of pupils to teacher must not be so large that the teaching-power of any one teacher and its result on individual pupils is impaired by reason of the teacher being unable to give attention to each pupil individually. To enable these propositions to be attained the governing body of the school must have the power of adjusting the income from fees by increasing the fees if necessary, so that the status is reached in which the school has the most efficient staff and the best possible training for each individual pupil. The arbitrary fixing of the fees at a sum which tends to the restriction of salaries, or to the enlargement of classes beyond the capacity of the teacher as a teacher of individuals and not as a mere lecturer, is not in the soundest and best interests of secondary education. The secretary has prepared the following schedule of the salaries at present paid : Wellington College —Headmaster, £500 and house; five masters at £310, three at £280, one at £250, one at £240, one at £225, one at £210, four at £200, one at £175, one at £150. Wellington Girls' College—Principal, £450; two teachers at £,215, one at £185, two at £165, one at £160, six at £150, two at £125, one at £100. 3. Mr. Kirk] If those principles were carried out would there not be a danger of the school being looked upon as a class school? —Personally I agree with John Stuart Mill, in that I am totally opposed to education being run by the State. In his essay on " Liberty " Mill gives some very good reasons against it, and I-venture to agree with the sentiments he expresses. If that, were carried out there would be no such thing as a class school—they would all be private schools, and the schools would suit each individual class of the community. 4. Taking conditions as we find them, do you not think there is that danger?— There is necessarily that danger unless you have the schools as private schools. If it is a successful school and there is any difficulty in getting into it, it will be named as a class school by those who cannot get into it. 5. In this democratic age, much money is being paid by the State, would it be wise to adopt such a suggestion ? —ln this democratic age, when a huge expenditure of money is required in all directions, the necessity may be forced upon the State of seeing in what direction it can best economize, and it might be that the adoption of Mill's principle would be a direction in which economy might be exercised. 6. Do you apply the income from the endowments in a fair proportion as between the boys and the girls, or do you discriminate in favour of one or the other?—We do not discriminate. The history of the two institutions is this : When the Girls' School was started the income from that school served to fill up the deficiency of the Boys' School. Later on the Girls' School drew a great deal more than its proportion of the Boys' School endowment —more than some people would think it was entitled to; but the whole of the revenue is put into a common fund, and drawn out according to the requirements of each institution. There is no special allotment of income for the purpose of expenditure. 7. Is due consideration paid to the claims of the teachers' salaries —for instance, in the case of the Girls' School? —The fact of the matter is that the salaries at both schools are not sufficient to give the teachers adequate salaries for the time and labour they put in at the schools. They are altogether too low. They are so low that they do not hold out any prospect of a quiet old age. They are hand-to-mouth salaries, and they are absolutely limited by the income we receive. 8. Are you spending more in any other direction than is justified in view of the salaries paid? —No. Practically the whole of the income goes in maintenance and upkeep, and occasionally in a little improvement. Where we have had a little surplus in one year we have put it into some necessary improvement, but the margin is not large enough to allow for any extravagance.
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9. Mr. Pirani] In the table of income of the secondary schools for 1910 your school shows nothing for boarding fees : can you say why ? —The boarding is not run by the Governors, but by the headmaster and masters. There were two establishments at one time, but now there is only- one. The headmaster has a salary, and has the use of the dwelling at the school. The whole arrangement is under the control and at the risk of the headmaster. 10. Your income from rents last year was £4,168, your income from free places £4,039, and the school fees came to £2,136 : do you not think that with an income like that the Board could be more liberal in the scale of salaries than it is?—l do not know of any direction in which economy could be exercised. 11. I notice that you charge £42 a year for boarding fees, and there are 185 boarders. Do you kiiow what profit there is in that?—l have not an idea. 12. If I were to tell you that there is a profit of at least £1,500 a year do you not think that a very much better arrangement could be made than making the headmaster a boardinghousekeeper ? —1 have not gone into the question of the Governors undertaking to conduct a boarding establishment, but I have a general impression that it would be far more in the interests of education if more of the teachers had the opportunity of having boarding establishments. It would be better for the boys, who would be more closely looked after, and it would be better for the teachers, because there would be more inducement for a man of character to take up the profession of teaching. 13. Do you think it is part of the education of any of the masters to be able to run a boardinghouse ? —lf you have sufficiently intelligent men as masters they would run a boardinghouse without any difficulty. 14. In the circumstances do you not think the Board of Governors should have some of the profits, for the purpose of increasing salaries generally 7, rather than that special teachers should have them ?—I am inclined to think it would be putting too much of a burden upon the Board of Governors. It would probably tend to make them careless in looking after the funds. 15. Do you not know that in both the Wanganui Collegiate School and the Wanganui Girls' College the work is done simply by paying a clerk in each case, without throwing any work on the members of the Board at all? —One swallow does not make a summer. They may have exceptionally good clerks who are able to do the work. 16. Do you not think that if that is possible it would be a proper thing for you to alter the system, and be able to pay the teachers of both boys and girls adequate salaries? —I think the tendency then would be for the clerk to take charge of the Board. 17. If, as in both those cases, the headmaster of the Boys' School and the headmistress of the Girls' School have all the responsibility, and a clerk does the work, do you not think it would be possible for your school? —It would be quite possible. 18. Is it not more in accordance with the headmaster's position to save himself from the buying of the steaks and sausages, and that sort of thing?—l do not think so. I think it is the duty of a headmaster to know something of the world, and the more he knows about housekeeping and management the better for him and the better for those he is bringing up. 19. Is it not really an enlargement of the Squeers system?— No. 20. Have you ever had complaints from the boys about their food? —No. 21. How do you account for the fact that your Board does not pay to the teachers of the Girls' College within £1,000 of the sum received in free-place fees from the Government? —I am not aware that that is a fact. 22. We had it in evidence this morning that you get about £3,600 for the Girls' College?— You must bear in mind that it is only since the beginning of this year that there has been a large influx of free-place pupils into the Girls' School. We have not had any accounts made up, but we have had a statement that there is a large sum owing to us by the Department for last term's fees. We are not paid by the Department until the returns are made up. 23. What proportion of the revenue from the endowment do you reckon to spend on the Girls' College as compared with the Boys' ?—No proportion. It is a common fund. 24. Were the endowments made for the boys or for general education? —The original endowments were made by Sir George Grey for a grammar school. Additional endowments were made by the Provincial Council, also iov a grammar school. The Girls' High School was started, I think, in 1877. An Act was passed authorizing the setting-apart of land to the value, I think, of £3,000 as an endowment for a girls' high school. The land was set apart some years afterwards. A special valuation was made of the endowments, and they were returned as being worth £1,200. Of course, they are worth more now. An Act was passed in 1887 as'to the construction of which there are two opinions It is an open question whether that Act consolidated the two institutions, or whether it still left them separate. The Girls' High School proper has a net income from the endowments after paying interest on the cost of the buildings. There is a debt of £5,000 which the Government of many years ago undertook to pay, but it has not been paid yet. The net. income of the Girls' High School endowment, over and above the interest paid on the cost of buildings, is somewhere about £30. 25. How did you get the endowment in the Town of Palmerston North? —From the Provincial Government. No income was derived from that for some time. It was the passing of the Public Bodies' Leaseholds Act of 1886 that enabled leases to be granted with perpetual right of renewal, and under those leases the Palmerston so-called reserves were let. 26. Have you any idea of the amount of revenue those leases bring in? —No. I can only say that some of the leases fell in the other day, and under the renewal clauses valuations were made by arbitrators and an umpire. They fixed the rents for the new term, but several of the lessees have thrown up their leases. 27. Were not the rents tremendously high?—l do not think so. As I have said, the amounts were fixed by arbitrators and an umpire.
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28. Do you not think it would be a fair thing, considering that there are a number of boys and girls in Palmerston North wanting higher education, the reserves in the town should belong to the local people?—l think it is far better that there should be one good centra] school than that there should be several spread over the country. It tends more to efficiency. - 29. Would you favour following the example of St. Patrick's College and removing your "institution to Palmerston North? —If you could get an institution sufficiently endowed with land and buildings, and sufficiently endowed with income to pay good salaries, Palmerston North would probably be a better centre for the school than any of the big cities. 30. Mr. Hogben] Do you know that under the schedule of the Act, according to which you get payment for free places, the payment, together with the endowment, can never fall less than £12 10s. per head?— That is so, but the Act takes no account of the income from the endowments that is paid away in interest on. mortgages, general repairs, &c. 31. Does not the definition of "net income" exclude all charges?— Not for maintenance, I think. 32. Yes, for niaiiitenaiice of buildings, payment of interest on mortgages, and expenditure on buildings. After they are excluded the payment will not be less than £12 10s. Are you aware that in 1910 it actually did amount, for the two colleges, to £12 14s.—the net amount, after all expenditure on buildings, mortgages, interest, repairs, iV-.c. ? —I would suggest that that is not enough. The fees are not large enough. 33. If there are twenty-five pupils to an average class, that would give you £312 for the class?—l do not profess to be a judge in the matter, but my own feeling is that an average class of twenty-five throughout a big school is absolutely too large. 34. But your classes are up to that, are they not? —Yes. 35. You spend only £10 7s. per pupil: could you not spend something more nearly approaching £12 14s. per pupil on salaries? Your expenses of administration are 9s. per pupil?— Without an examination of the balance-sheet of Wellington College you could scarcely crossexamine me on the figures in detail. 36. I have examined them, and I ask you the question on the basis of the knowledge I have arrived at?— The last balance-sheet was up to the 31st December, 1911. The conditions, I believe, have altered considerably since then owing to the large number of pupils who have come to the Girls' High School, but all expenditure must be taken into account. 37. The figures I noted were those of 1910? —As far as I can see the Governors have not been throwing away money in any direction. If at the end of the year they have anything up to £500 for special contingencies in the coining year they are very happy. There is one thing they are doing that perhaps ought to be noticed. In the year 1875 they borrowed £5,000 for the purpose of building the present College. That sum was borrowed on a mortgage of the reserve, and until quite recently it has been outstanding intact as a debt owing by the Governors. The mortgage came into the hands of the Government Life Insurance Department, and arrangements are being made under which some of the increased rents are being applied in payment of the principal. The Governors considered it absolutely sound finance, in view of the age of the building and the certain necessity of replacing it at no very distant date, that they should pay off the debt that had been originally incurred in erecting that wooden building. 38. Mr. Pirani] Was the promise of a past Government to pay off the debt made very longago ? —lt is very ancient history. 39. Do you not think representations might be made now to have that obligation carried out? —There was no absolute promise. There was a statement by the Minister of Education of the day (Sir Robert Stout) that he approved of the mortgage given by the Governors, and hopes were held out to the Governors that if they raised the money and built the Girls' School on the old Hospital site in Pipitea Street something would be done. We were told, " You go ahead and spend the money, and the Government will make it all right." But there was a change of Government, and they did not make it all right. 40. The Chairman] What, in your opinion, should be the size of classes in a secondary school?—I leave that to experts. I arrived at an opinion partly by considering how many boys I should like to teach and give individual attention to them, and partly from statistics that I saw in the report on education for L 894, which I saw in the 10th edition of the Encyclopedia Britannica. It showed that in the secondary schools in England the proportion of pupils to visiting and resident teachers was between eight and nine, and the proportion to resident teachers was between twelve and thirteen. Augustus Heine examined on oath. (No. 192.) 1. The Chairman] What is your position?—l am acting headmaster of Wellington College, the Principal being away in England. My regular status on the staff is that of first assistant master. I have been employed in the school since 1882, with the exception of nine months when I was at Canterbury College. My educational status is that of B.A. of the New Zealand University, and I hold the Bl certificate of the Education Depart eat. 2. Will you state the matters you wish to bring before the Commission? —I may state that I have come partly as president of the Secondary Schools Association. Nearly three years ago the assistants in the secondary schools of New Zealand formed an association independent of the association which is called the School Conference, and this year I have been elected president. Nearly all the assistants in the larger secondary schools have joined the association. Part of what I am about to say will refer to the needs of the secondary teachers, and f have added my impressions as to free places. Of all subjects that of salaries is the most important to secondaryteachers. Last year we made a table of salaries compiled from statistics supplied by the chief secondary schools. These I would submit for your most serious consideration. It will be seen that where the classes are abnormally large the salaries are fairly good; where the classes are of reasonable size the salaries are far too low. We have been told that all the revenue from capi-
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tation and endowments is available for salaries and management. Now, according to the Secondary Education Report of 1911, the amount available in 1910 per free pupil for salaries at Auckland Grammar School was £1252, and the total expenditure per head of roll on staff and management was £8"99. What became of the difference, £3"53? In the case of Wellington College there was a difference of £232 per head of pupil. If this difference is not available for salaries the capitation should be increased, for at present many good men leave off teaching to take up more remunerative professions. As examples I may mention Messrs. W. F. Ward, 0. T. J. Alpers, T. Kowe, J. Tripe, T. Jordan, and E. P. Bunny, who gave up their positions in secondary schools and became prominent lawyers. One master of Wellington College was receiving after ten years of teaching .£225 per year. He resigned and took a position in a solicitor's office. After three months he was getting £260 a year. A first assistant in one of the high schools has quoted the following cases to me : Three schoolmasters left off teaching. One of these was fortytwo years of age, and began dentistry on no salary. After six years he was making £1,100 a year. At teaching he had been receiving £200 a year. The others also did well. Unless the salaries are increased young men will not enter the teaching profession. In April of this year the Wellington Board of Governors advertised for a junior assistant at a salary of £175; six men applied. In June they advertised for a temporary junior master at £175; none applied. Some men take up teaching merely to make a living till they have time to pass the necessary law examinations. Much has been done of late years in providing free places for pupils, which all goes to assist the parents of pupiils, and gives them the means of educating their children. Should not something be done to ameliorate the condition of teachers? Female assistants are paid even much worse than male assistants. According to the table supplied, thirteen male assistants at Auckland Grammar School last year received £3,355 10s.; thirteen female assistants received £2,000. Since the training of female teachers costs as much as that of male teachers —they have to do the same work, and the fees paid are the' same —the great difference in salaries cannot be justified. As regards superannuation, the chief grievance of teachers is that they are placed at a disadvantage as compared with Civil servants in not being able to count the three best years of service. The provision that the salary during the last three years alone is to count for superannuation reduces the system for the secondary teacher to a form of compulsory gambling, with the odds all against him. Very few secondary teachers are retained until they are sixty-five, and if retained are hardly likely to be drawing the full salary they received in their prime. From statistics collected in 1909 we found only one teacher out of 112 in the principal secondary schools to be over sixty, and three between fifty-one and sixty. In the case of men doing double work there is hardly a possibility of the superannuation paid on account of the night-work bringing any return. One of our staff pays £6 Bs. a year superannuation on his technical-school salary. He can reap no return at all from this unless he continues to teach at night as well as during the day from sixty-two to sixty-five years of age. Yet he has to pay income-tax on this money, which he never receives and from which he can never derive any future benefit. All the benefits are made to depend on the salary received during the last three years of service. So that a man who has been receiving £300 a year for twenty or thirty years may have his retiringallowance computed on a salary of £100 if he is compelled to accept such a pittance when worn out in the service and unable to perform all the active duties that are required. The years spent at a training college are counted as years of service for primary teachers, therefore I think it would be only fair that the years spent at the University should be counted for secondary teachers. The amount to be paid could be made retrospective from the time a teacher first receives an appointment, and should be computed on his first salary. Secondary teachers rarely begin to teach before reaching the age of twenty-two or twenty-three. Primary teachers often begin at sixteen. Consequently secondary teachers should be allowed to retire at an earlier age. I believe that at present only three males connected with secondary schools are receiving superannuation; of these one was a secretary of a secondary Board, one was a headmaster, and one was an assistant. My own opinion with regard to superannuation is that the pensions given to widows and orphans are far too low, and I feel sure that many teachers would be willing to accept a lower retiring-allowance if better provision were made for widows and orphans. At the last annual meeting of our association Mr. F. M. Renner contributed a valuable paper dealing with certain aspects of hygienic physiology. After some discussion the following resolution was passed : " That this association considers it highly desirable that the State should appoint competent instructors for all secondary schools to give such instruction in certain branches of hygienic physiology as will safeguard the children and help to develop the best type of citizen." In giving my impressions with regard to free pupils I wish it to be clearly understood that where I find fault it is with the system, not with the teachers, for a better class of men it would be difficult to find. I have been teaching the highest form of free pupils in some subject or other ever since they have been admitted to the College. This form includes the Education Board scholarshipholders of the province, and consequently the pick of our schools. The subjects that have come particularly under my notice are English, history, and geography. The one very noticeable feature is that the boys have been taught no formal grammar. A boy does not know what you mean when you ask him to conjugate a verb or compare an adjective. He has done hardly any detailed analysis, and is unable to pick out the parts of speech in a sentence. Some time has been spent in learning prefixes and suffixes and a few Latin roots. When boys are asked to correct errors in syntax they are guided by what sounds right to them. No history-books seem to be used in the schools. Boys have read a little about the lives of great men, but know very little about the great constitutional and social questions of history. Geography seems to be treated as a class subject in which boys need not pass for standard examinations. In some schools mountains and rivers are considered of supreme importance; in others trade routes are studied carefully; in others, again, British possessions receive special attention; but hardly any of the boys have during the time spent by them at a primary school become acquainted with all the countries of the Old and the New World, with their commercial importance, their productions, their chief towns, and the part their people have played in the history of mankind. On
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the whole there seems to be a want of continuity in the system. Children, if clever, are allowed to skip some standards. There is something delightfully vague and indefinite about the amount to be taught of each subject. J am afraid we try to ape other countries that have far greater means and facilities than we possess. If work is not worth doing thoroughly it should not be done at all. We are told that children must not be overworked; they must have no home-lessons, so that they may have time to attend the pictures; they must be shown how to acquire knowledge without effort on their part, in former times boys were told "where there's a will there's a way." They were encouraged to take a pride in overcoming difficulties. If the present system is continued we shall look in vain for those qualities that were once the characteristics of a hardy and independent race. In conclusion, I would say that the mother-tongue deserves special attention. Try to check the objectionable colonial dialect that is spreading so fast. Instil in the children a love for reading good books, teach them how to read and to understand what they read, and they will go on educating themselves all their lives. The following table shows the salaries of teachers of secondary schools for 1911 : —
Years' Experience. Salary. Salary. Average Class. Time to Drill, Games, &c. Auckland Boys' Gran A .. .. .. .. ! 23 B .. .. .. .. j 18 C .. .. .. .. 20 D .. .. .. .. 17 I .. .. .. .. 22 F .. .. .. .. . 12 G .. .. .. .. | 14 H .. .. .. .. 6 I .. .. .. ... 9 J .. .. .. .. 14 K .. .. .. .. 6 L .. .. .. .. 12 M .. .. .. .. 14 rr, nmar School. £ I 350 350 350 325 273 . 250 2371 225 225 200 200 200 200 35 35 35 35 40 40 42 35 37 45 43 43 45 Hours, 1 4 '31 31 31 31 Auckland Girls' Gran A .. .. .. .. 19 B .. .. .. .. 29 C .. .. .. .. 15|D .. .. .. .. ! 21 E .. '.. .. .. 2J F .. .. .. .. 4 G .. .. .. .. 2 H i 51 I •-■ • H K .. .. .. .. | 8 L .. .. .. .. 14 M .. .. 8 N 11 n nmar School. 200 200 170 130 135 125 125 140 125 175 125 175 175 ! 31 27 31 31 19 35 33 38 28 31 37 1 2 2 Science mistresses take all fc nrms in the scho< ol. Wellington College (Boys'). ( A .'. .. .'. .. I 31 B 27 C 17 D .. .. .. .. f 21 E .. .. .. .. 12 F .. .. .. .. 5 G 4 H .. .. .. .. 13 I 8 K .. .. .. .. | 3 L .. .. .. .. ' 20 M .. .. .. .. 25 N .. .. .. .. 8 0 .. .. .. .. 8 P 1 Q 3 I Number on r 300 300 300 300 300 285 270 270 270 230 215 210 210 175 175 100 oil, 403.) 27 20 23 22 20 27 25 26 21 23 30 20 28 27 10 (lab. wk.). 8 (games). 9 (drill and games). 3 4 4 4 2 51 1' 1 Wanganui Girls' College, (b A .. .. .. ..I 10 j B ! Ill C .. .. .. ... 15 D .. .. .. .. : 131 E .. .. .. .. 3|* F .. .. .. .. 20 G .. ....... 9 H 2 IS Number on ro 1 135 185 185 200 140 190 170 .120 dl, 190.) 18 21 20 17 29 22 15 21 4 4 4 .. * 2 trainirif
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! Years' „ , Average Time to Drill. I Experience, i nal< * r y- C j agB- Games, &c. i i J 1 Napier Girls' High School. (Number on roll, 118.) £ Hours. A .. .. .... 9 140 15 2 B ........ 6 140 20 2 C ........ 41 140 16 2 D (junior school) . . . . . . 5| 150 30 2 Otago Boys' High School. (Number on roll, 323.) A .. .. .. .. I 32 375 27 B .. .. .. .. 18 325 24 C .. .. .. ..11 300 27 D .. .. .. .. (Temp, as- 300 22 sist.) E .. . . .. .. 15 250 31 1 (drill), 1 swim ming, 2 terms), F .. . . . . 22 240 37 1 (2 terms). G .. .. .. ' .. 21 220 43 1 (drill), 3 (shooting, 1 term). H .. .. .. .. I 14 200 36 1 (drill). I . . . . . . .. 1 (Temp, as- ■ 200 26 sist.) J .. .. .. ..11 165 43 Otago Girls' High School. (Number on roll, 202.) A .. .... . .'l 22 210 16 B .. .. .. ..32 210 19 C .. .. .. .. I 30 180 30 D .. .. .. .. 29 170 29 E .. .. .. .. 20 160 26 F .. .. .. .. 11 180 26 G .. .. .. .. S 13 160 28 H .. .. .. .. 8 130 24 1 (part time teacher of drawing) .. 5 60 22 Waitaki Girls' High School. (Number on roll, 73.) A .. .. .. .. 11 175 21-6 4 B .. .. .. .. 8 150 17-7 C .. .. .: .. 10 125 10-7 2 Christchurch Boys , High School. (Number on roll, 213.) A .. .. .. ... 40 375 22 1 B .. .. .. .. 32 350 22 C .. .. .. .. 26 300 23 3 (lab. wk.). D .. .. .. ..30 240 20 E .. .... ..27 275 25 2 F • • • • • • v 20 100 16 ■ (Part time, 10). G .. .. .. ..14 250 25 H (preparatory form) .. ■ .. I 11 150 14 3 I ..' •■ .. .. 10 110 22 (Part time, 10). J ..... .. .. 15 175 23 (Part time, 14). K .. .. .... 2 250 22 3 L .... .. .. 1 225 22 3 M .. .. .. ..20 200 25 2 Christchurch Girls' High School. (Number on roll, 250.) A ........ 33 220 25 1 B .. .. .. .. 18 190 26 3 C .. .. ., .. 18 160 22 2-i D .. .. .... 16 150 22 3 B .. .. .. .. 13 180 23 2 F .. .. .... 10 170 22 2 G .. .. .... 8 205 17 3 H ........ 2 140 26 1 I .. .. .. .. .. 160 22 2 Timnni Girls' High School. (Number on roll, 60.) A .. .. .. ..■'[• 15 195 20 B ........ 10 170 20 1 C .. .. .... 10 120 20 B C
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The paper by Mr. Renner to which I have referred is as follows : — "The Need for the Teaching of Hygienic Physiology. " I have for a period of thirteen years taught in a secondary school, and for part of that time have been a boardingmaster at Wellington College. I may claim that I have been brought into very close association with all types of boys, and therefore feel competent to a greater or less degree to speak of a subject that to my mind is of the highest importance to schoolboys and to teachers alike. We teachers have many difficulties to face. One boy is not as another boy, and very often the treatment of one boy has to be completely altered within a year or two. lam of the opinion that many of us teachers do not realize fully enough what tremendous changes take place in a boy's body and mind after a certain period. We notice, of course, that the boy's carriage becomes more erect, his shoulders squarer, his voice breaks, and so on, but we often fail to appreciate the mental and moral quickenings that occur within a normally developing child at the age of puberty—changes in themselves as striking as the physical changes and just as important. At this time unsettled manhood manifests itself in all sorts of queer and often objectionable ways. Fresh impulses are'stirring within him; they crowd upon him much quicker than he can control them. Rudeness, resentment of discipline, brusqueness of answer are some of the symptoms of change. This period is the most critical time of the boy's life. He needs sympathy, guidance, and above all instruction —instruction which, I am. confident, not one boy in ten ever gets. What we should have and ought to have are competent and earnest men who will explain to boys much that they ought to know about themselves. Ignorance on such matters is very often the ruining of a boy's whole life. Forewarned is forearmed. What the pitfalls and ambushes are that lie in a boy's path for some time after he has reached puberty we all know, but we do not know or we shut our eyes to the fact that a proportion of boys—an altogether too large a proportion —is in absolute ignorance. How many of us realize what this ignorance leads to? How much of the defective eyesight, headaches, epilepsy, imbecility, has this ignorance been responsible for, to say nothing of criminal offences. Instruction in matters of sex is to some people repugnant. To a certain reverend gentleman the whole business of warning and guiding boys in matters of that kind was repugnant. He would have none of it. Sin of all kinds —gambling, drinking, &c.—these are all repugnant, but they have to be faced. Would his argument hold good 1 Others again assert that all such instruction as I advocate should be neglected—' Where ignorance is bliss 'tis folly to be wise,' an argument too childish to be worth while refuting. Again it is said that parents are the proper people to instruct boys in all matters pertaining to their bodies. I readily admit that parents are the fittest of all people to help their sons. But do
Years „ , ti, ■ Salary. Experience. J Average Class. Average Class. Time to Drill, Games, &c. Invercargill Boys' High School. (Number on r roll,. 150.) re oil,. 150.) A B C D E j£ 18 300 20 275 20 240 14 230 4 210 20 25 28 28 32 20 25 28 28 32 Hours. 4 4 Timaru Boys' High School. (Number on ro' roll, 80.) ill 1, 80.) A B C ... 26 300 14 250 10 210 25 20 25 25 20 25 I 2 1 Napier Boys' High School. 15 4 + A B C D E F G 32 260+52 (house) 10 255 12 200 6 175 6 100 + board 71 135 51 95 + board 15 15 22 26 25 21 15 15 15 22 26 25 21 2 2 3 2 3 Palmerston North 'High School. (Number on r roll, 200.) re oil, 200.) A (male) B (female) .. C (female) .. D (female) .. E (male) F (male) G (male) ..I 23 300 .. 4 150 51 125 .. 8 110 .. j 21 160 .. 21 120 ..I 14 220 i 30 30 23 34 31 25 33 30 30 23 34 31 25 33 5 5 5 5 5 5 5 I i
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they do it? From what I know not 10 per cent, of the parents ever give that instruction to their children. The reasons are not difficult to find, f do not think that here in the colonies there is "the same sympathy between father and son as there should be or as could be expected. A greater independence of spirit, less inclination to confide, are at least two results of a freer life in the colonies. We teachers, of course, cannot give the boy- help at the critical period of his life. In the first place, we do not stand in loco parentis; secondly, we dare not do it; thirdly, we do not feel ourselves competent enough. Now, I maintain that the State should take upon itself the duty which parents do not do, and which teachers cannot do. Two or three competent men travelling through the Dominion and carrying out the work of instruction in this very important matter would, I feel sure, be of immense value to future generations. We have free secondar} 7 education, we have compulsory military- training against outside aggression, and what is the use of it if we neglect the welfare of future generations? I have talked with many teachers on this matter, and I know that I do not exaggerate when I say that ignorance in matters pertaining to sexual physiology- does more to undermine and is doing more to undermine the constitutions of many of our boys than, say, cigarette-smoking and intoxicants. I may perhaps be allowed to quote from Dr. Sperry's book. 'There is no hope of success in the effort to bring up boys, in ignorance of such matters. The world has tried it for centuries, and the effort has signally failed. Promise of improvement lies only in giving early, honestly, and affectionately such information, admonition, and watchful care as the importance of the subject demands.' And again : ' Of course, not all boys can be kept pure through knowledge alone, but knowledge properly imparted will direct aright and save from sin many who would otherwise go the way of the vile, gathering up as they go the natural fruits of a sinful life —weakness, inefficiency, discontent, disease, and premature death —and leaving behind them, as a terrible legacy to the world, an emphasized tendency to disease and race-extermination.' I have not much more to add to this. I should, however, like to draw the attention of the Commission to a statement often made—viz-., that instruction in sexual physiology puts thoughts and ideas into a boy's head that are not good for him, and that he is better without such knowledge. Surely that argument puts the New Zealand boy on a very low level! If the instructors are able and withal sympathetic men, earnest in their work, realizing to the full their responsibilities, I do not think that we should have much fear of the boy not taking the instruction in the right way. I feel confident that if instruction were given in the proper way we should in one or two decades have surprisingly good results. In conclusion, I must apologize for what I fear is a very laboured exposition of an important subject. lam sorry that I was unable to forward a copy of the paper read before the Secondaryschool Teachers' Conference, and that I have to forward this contribution, written at very short notice." 3. Mr. Wells] With regard to this objectionable colonial dialect, do you mean that things are becoming worse in that direction ?—Much worse in the last ten years. I have noticed it particularly in the last ten years. 4. On what do you base that statement? —Simply on my experience in the English class. The boys of ten or twelve years ago did not have the careless way of pronouncing vowels that they have nowadays. I think it is getting worse and worse every year. If you take a class of thirty at the beginning of the year I do not think you will find more than three or four who will say "house" correctly. Of course, I do not believe in overdoing it, as you find in the case of some people who have been Home, but at the same time the word is " house," and not " heouse." Again, a great many, instead of saying " Oh, no," say " Ow, neow." But you very 7 rarely find a boy dropping his h's. 5. We have had our attention called to this matter of pronunciation in the course of our travels, and we have been making very particular inquiries, but the weight of testimony so far received has been distinctly opposite to what you have just now given us?—lf I am allowed to quote I may say I read that evidence, and that a master said to me afterwards, " Do you know the gentleman giving the evidence, because, if you do, you will not be surprised at him giving it, because he has probably the colonial dialect himself." 6. You referred to the exaggeration affected by people who have been Home : have you noticed that yourself in the secondary schools? —Not in fhe schools, but I have noticed it outside. 7. I mean among the teachers in the secondary schools? —You will notice the difference between an Englishman and a colonial straight away. I have had a boy in my class not long from Home who pronounced his vowels, I suppose, as an English boy does, and the other boys looked at him when he was reading for the first time. 8. We have had that exaggerated style of speaking from secondary-school teachers most particularly? —I consider that vulgar. I would not tolerate such a thing as " fame " and " naice " amongst boys, and I do not think they would tolerate it themselves. 9. You complain that the boys who come to you do not get, sufficient formal grammar?— Yes. 10. At Auckland we were told by 7 a secondary-school teacher who appeared before us that he preferred they should not know any formal grammar, but that they should be able to write good composition, and that the formal grammar might well be left to the secondary school : do you differ from him? —I do. But a small percentage of the primary boys come to the secondary schools, and you want to imply that a primary boy need not learn any grammar at all. 11. He preferred that attention should be given in the primary school to teaching English composition ? —Of course, composition is of great importance, but I can hardly understand how a boy could write a good composition without knowing something about grammar. 12. What have you to say in regard to the training of secondary-school teachers?—So far as I know we have had trained teachers. I have met. trained teachers and teachers who have come to the school straight from their university 7, and I may say we had just as good men among those who had no special training as among those who had had special training. 13. That means you think that for a secondary-school course a man requires no training in the art of teaching?—lt would not do him any harm.
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14. But you do not advocate any course of training for secondary-school teachers?—l do not think it is necessary. If he requires training in school-management or method he can get that at the ordinary training college for primary teachers. 15. I do not mean a distinctive training college for secondary-school teachers, but a course taken at the ordinary training college, with practice and observation work at a secondary school ? -—I am sure it would do no harm. It might improve the secondary-school teachers. 16. I gather from y-our remarks that you think primary-school pupils should have home-work? —Most certainly. 17. Where do you think they should begin?—l think, a child of seven or eight years of age could do a little. 18. In the way of learning-work or written work?—l think, in learning-work. I think their memory should be trained more than it is. 19. At that early age?— Children of seven or eight years of age can learn some poetry. 20. What form do you think home-work should take in the Fifth and Sixth Standards? —You might give them some analysis to do or some poetry to learn. I think they should learn far more poetry at an early age than they do at present. It, is a splendid training. 21. Do you approve of written home-work for Standards V and VI pupils?—l should not give them too much written work, because I think in the case of written work they can get too much assistance. Of course, they might write a short essay at home or do some analysis. 22. Do you think there is a tendency to set too much home-work in the secondary schools? —Certainly not. We set for the smaller boys one hour and a half. 23. You do not know of any case of home-work requiring attention until 10 o'clock at night? —Of the bigger boys I should say yes; of the smaller boys I should say not. 24. You think it should not be so if it takes place?— No. I believe in secondary schools there is no special time allotted for home-work. They probably allow each teacher to get as much out of his boys as he can. At our school we are strictly bound by a home-lesson time-table, which is posted in the class-room, and the boys know they have so many lessons each night, say, half ■an hour for English, half an hour for Latin, and half an hour for mathematics; and if any master should try to set anything further they 7 know it is w/ong. 25. Is that time judged by your smartest pupils?— Not always. If a boy makes a complaint he will get less to do. 26. Mr. Davidson] Have 3 7 0u studied the primary-school syllabus carefully?—l have not studied it. I have merely formed my judgment from a knowledge of the boys. 27. Do you know that the old system of giving the boys lessons to learn and hearing them the next day has been practically abolished in the primary schools?—l have been told so. 28. Mr. Pirani] Give us some other examples of colonial pronunciation besides "house "? — The "ou " sound generally and the pronunciation of " i." A. large number of boys will call "fine" " foine " ; and, again, in the pronunciation of "a," they will call "lady" " lidy," " make " " mike," and " lake " " like." 29. What hope is there for a change when we find two of the Principals of the largest secondary schools in New Zealand, in giving evidence, using these expressions : " taime-table " for "time-table"; "Ai " for "I"; " Ingland" for "England"; "may own" for "my own " ; " naineteen " for " nineteen " ; " faive " for " five" ; " name" for " nine " ; " naight " for "night"; " laike " for "like"; " gairls " for "girls"; " supervaise " for "supervise"; " lames " for "lines"; "bay" for "buy"; " advaise " for "advise"; " Taimes " for " Times " ; " besaides " for " besides " ; " kaind " for " kind " ; " araises " for " arises " ; " provaided " for "provided"; and " laife " for "life": have you ever heard a primaryschool teacher do worse than that?—l may say I have never heard a male secondary-school teacher pronouncing words in that way. 30. Have you ever come across a primary-school teacher as bad as that? —I have not. 31. Do you not think that before appointments are made to secondary schools the teachers should have to pass a test in pronunciation? —I must say it is difficult enough to get secondaryschool teachers, and if you want to insist on some more tests lam afraid y 7 ou will not get any teachers at all. 32. What hope have you of improving the pronunciation of girls when you get that kind of language from the teachers? —I canrrot suggest any. 33. Mr. Hogben] How do you know that the pronunciation of English has been deteriorating during the last twenty or thirty years?— Because I am judging from the classes that have come under my special notice. 34. Did you take a record of the pronunciation of twenty or thirty years ago, and are you taking a record now? —I remember the pronunciation at that time, and I had no reason to complain of it. 35. You are relying on your memory?— Yes, and it is pretty fair. 36. Is not your memory of the impression of what you hear every day liable to be changed without you perceiving it?—l do not think so. 37. Suppose you heard that these very mistakes we have been referring to were noted, and noted phonetically, thirty years ago as much more numerous than they are now, that would not agree with your experience? —Certainly not. 38. Can you really tell the difference in any other way than by taking accurate phonetic records? —I have a very fair ear, and I think I can judge. 39. You must remember that in thirty years the pronunciation of standard English has altered in a great many ways —in the short " a " and long " o "?—Do you mean to imply that twenty or thirty years ago the boys would say " aou, now " instead of " Oh, no"! I think it is the drawl that is coming into prominence. 40. Did you take records thirty years ago to ascertain? —I did not. It is my own impression, and I am pretty certain of my impression.
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41. Mr. Kirk] Have you any observations to make as to the necessity or otherwise of reform in the construction and spelling of words?—l have not. Sir Edward Osborne Gibbes, Bart., examined on oath. (No. 193.) 1. The Chairman] What is your position?—l am Secretary of Education. I have been an officer of the Department since it was established in 1878. 2. We would like to hear what you have to say in regard to the subject-matter of our inquiry? —The Department has had to suffer much unfair criticism in respect of its treatment of claims for funds for school buildings. The meetings of Education Boards are open to the Press, and the remarks of the members on finding their applications refused or cut down are just those that make the liveliest reading for the public. The Department's case is never before the public, and the Commission should know that it has a case. It ought not to need documentary evidence to show that a system under which educational buildings can be provided only by means of special grants extracted from the Government cannot be carried out without friction. On the one hand there is the great army of parents, Committees, teachers, Inspectors, and Boards, with the individual claims that to each are of paramount importance, and opposed to them the Department striving to apportion an inadequate fund with justice and economy. It is as certain as a law of nature that no one can get as much money as he would like by the simple process of asking for it, and from such a system nothing can be expected but discontent. The Minister has to determine that every individual claim is not, only reasonable in itself but in consonance with what is possible for the Dominion as a whole, and yet with this great public responsibility the system denies him the only means by which he can exercise it effectively —that is, by ascertaining the facts for himself. Tt is claimed for the Boards that their sense of responsibility is so great that they can be depended on to refrain from making any demands that the circumstances do not justify, that the Minister should recognize this and give effect to their recommendations as a matter of course, and that any attempt on his part to obtain information independently of them is an improper and unjustifiable reflection on their integrity. In this connection a so-called " rabbiter " has become historic; it is represented generally that the Department employ-s rabbiters and suchlike persons to criticize the policy of the Boards; and "hireling," "spy," and other undesirable epithets have been applied to officers of the Department who have to undertake duties in connection with these matters. A rabbiter may be a very adequate person on questions of settlement, but as a matter of fact the Department does not employ rabbiters or anything of the kind; has never referred to any one but a Government officer in its inquiries; and it is intolerable that Government officers in the execution of their duty should be stigmatized in such a manner. To take an analogous case, is it to be supposed that Education Boards have so much respect for the responsibility of School Committees as to agree without question to all their demands for funds, or that they refrain from sending their officers to report for fear of wounding the Committees' susceptibilities? If the Minister is to be debarred from getting information from his own or other Government officers, where is the line to be drawn ? Is be to be denied the use of statistics ? In short, why should he be referred to at all; why not give the Boards blank cheques on the I'reasury? Up to about 1900 the funds for school buildings were distributed to the Boards in bulk on varying systems of proportion, based on population, number of schools, average attendance, and so on; but when the settlement of the North Island began to develop this system was found to be unfair, and an attempt was made to ascertain the requirements more equitably by obtaining from the Boards a periodical list of their contemplated buildings. The results would open the eyes of any believer in the theory that the Boards would place any limits to their demands, and the Government was soon forced to require proof of each individual case according to the sj'stem now in force. That system has saved the country thousands of pounds, by the postponement or rejection of proposals for which, there was no sufficient justification, by the reduction of others to reasonable proportions, and by the more careful consideration and greater economy induced by the knowledge of the Department's rigid scrutiny. A very- large number of cases could be cited to prove the correctness of this statement. The following are a few examples of a quite ordinary character : (1.) In 1907 enlargement of a school proposed at cost of ,£6OO. Refused as premature and excessive. In 1910 proposal renewed-, "though possibly a little in excess of present requirements," as the application stated. Work authorized and carried out for .£459. (2.) In 1904 a school for sixty proposed. Objected to as excessive, and, as a compromise, one for forty-five was built. Attendance has now, after seven years, reached twenty-three. (3.) Request for grant for new school refused on ground that a neighbouring school four miles distant should be removed at cost of about £20, or children conveyed. School built nevertheless without grant. Four years later (1908) the first school was closed and remains closed. (4.) In 1907 grant of £255 authorized. In 1910 grant said to be insufficient —£295 the least for which school could be built and equipped. School 279 square feet. But in same district Native school of 396 square feet, with residence of five rooms, had just been built by Department for £726. Supposing house to have cost £400 (£425 is given to Boards for such a house), the cost of the school would be £326, and proportionately the Board's school would cost £230. Increase of grant refused. No information that school has been built, though authorized in 1907. (5.) Grant for £454 refused on ground of proximity of neighbouring schools, between four and five miles. Later, 10s. a week allowed for rent of local hall. Case then and now, — School A. School B. „^ ew , .Total school. Attendance. Area ... ... ■•• ■■• ••• 884 sq. ft. 800 sq. ft. ...• Average attendance — 1908 ... ... ... ... ... 57 32 ... 89 1910 ... ... ... ... ... 32 25 45 102 1911 :.. ... ... ... .. 25 19 54 98 1912 ... ... ... ... ... 20 16 61 97
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(6.) In 1909 application for £316 for school for thirty. Grant limited to £250 on ground of insufficient prospects. For 1911, attendance fifteen. (7.) Application for £285 for school for thirty. Grant limited to £200, there being only one permanent settler. Case finally provided for by removal of a room from a neighbouring school of 942 square feet, with attendance of twenty. (8.) £255 asked for addition to school. In making these applications the Board is required to give the names and distances of the three nearest schools. This place is close to the boundary of another district in which there were two schools nearer than those named by the Board, both within four miles and a half. The first Board objected to the Department's asking the second Board for information. £230 eventually granted; the £255 including renovation of the old building. (9.) A somewhat similar case. A school proposed for a place three miles and a half from a school in a neighbouring district. The first Board objected to a request that it should get from the second Board an assurance that the original school would not be injured. (10.) Application for £70 for a shelter-shed. " There is one for the girls, but the boys have nowhere to go in wet weather." Declined; school being thirty years old, Government not responsible. Ascertained, moreover, that there is a fine drill-hall connected with the school. (11.) In 1902 application made for school for forty, and residence, £787. Attendance at temporary school, thirteen. Consideration postponed. In 1903 application for school alone renewed, £429. Again postponed; rent allowance granted, 10s. a week. In 1907 ascertained that room was used only three times a week, and that owner was parent of the children chiefly concerned. Board asked to obtain reduction of rent. After some months' correspondence Board reported unable to get reduction, Committee considering that rent was reasonable. Department ascertained that owner of room was Chairman of Committee, and reduced rent to ss. In 1908 application for £405 for school; £250 granted, which, in view of prospects, Board was told should be made to suffice. Nevertheless, school built as planned; attendance now fifteen. (12.) In 1903 Board reported a teacher's house uninhabitable, and proposed to pull it down and grant house allowance. Agreed to. In 1906 ascertained that house was in occupation of caretaker, and house allowance consequently stopped. Teacher now using it. (13.) In 1904 application for £466 for school for forty. Declined on account of to neighbouring school. Eventually residents put up a small building, for which £50 was granted. Attendance now nine. (14.) In 1909 application for £1,445 for new school. Declined, as case of rebuilding, for which Board itself was liable. Case finally met by grant of £230 as allowance for enlargement. (15.) Application for £375 for school for forty. Declined; nineteen out of twenty-three children named being on rolls of neighbouring schools. Case dropped. (16.) In 1904 application for school for sixty, and residence, £609. Declined on ground of proximity to other schools. In 1908 temporary school opened, attendance sixteen. In 1909 application for school alone renewed, £408. Declined. Attendance now fifteen. (17.) Application for £390 for school for forty. Declined; only fifteen children, with no prospect of increase. Finally £200 granted as maximum. School built at cost of £330. (18.) Application for £500 for a school-site. Valuation Department assessed the value at £265. Some cases in connection with applications for buildings for manual and technical instruction : (19.) Application for grant of £1,650, after inspection met by grant of £1,124. (20.) Application for grant of £4,150, after inspection met by grant of £3,100. (21.) Application for grants totalling £700, after inspection met by grants totalling £345 (a case of a series of amended proposals extending over three or four years). (22.) Application for grant of £2,500, after inspection met by grant of £1,885. (23.) Application for grant of £569 met by grant of £250. The production of evidence of this kind could go on indefinitely. Items 5 and 7 show three schools with accommodation for eighty-eight, eighty, and ninety-four, with attendances of twenty, sixteen, and twenty respectively. The appearance of these cases of overbuilding in items not selected for the purpose is an illustration of the extent to which money was wasted in this direction before the Department undertook supervision. A very large number of cases of a similar kind could be produced. The following extract from the published reports of an Inspector of Schools bears upon the same point: "28th February, 1901.—The representations in the past two years of settlers of and other places have been more or less delusive, and the result has been the erection in some cases of buildings in excess of requirements; and at the present time two. buildings erected only two ago are unoccupied." Information obtained by the Department has undoubtedly led to the rejection of a number of cases in which the erection of school buildings would have been followed by their abandonment. It is necessary to refer to the cases in which the Government was asked to provide for expenditure that ought to be borne by the Boards themselves. Case 14 is an illustration. Here the Board claimed £1,445 for work for which the Government had no responsibility. Case Bis another instance in which more than is legitimately payable has been asked for. There are many such cases. Ihe building of teachers' residences is another direction in which a great deal of money might be, and but for careful investigation would be, wasted. The number of buildings of this description that are not being used by the intended occupants is very large. Amongst other reasons the single women who have charge of so many of the small schools will, as a rule, not occupy a house by themselves. In one recent case of a grant for a residence the building was completed in December, 1910. Up to August, 1911, it had never been occupied, and is probably still unoccupied. Another representation that requires remark is that the Department interferes with the Boards in regard to their plans for school buildings. It is forcibly brought under the Department's notice that a great many of the existing buildings are exceedingly defective in plan. The Government has had to lay down a rule that it will not be responsible for alterations necessitated by faulty construction, and many applications for funds for this purpose have had to be refused. In some districts the study of school architecture does not receive the attention that ought to be given to it, and defective plans are constantly being sent in. Is it reasonable to say that the defects should not be pointed out? Are the health and comfort of
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generations of children, to say nothing of considerations of expense, of less importance than the dignity of a Board? It has been a frequent complaint that even in the cases in which grants are made the Department does not allow sufficient funds for carrying out the works. To this the answer is that the amount of the grant ought to be the measure of the expenditure, and the adequacy of such a reply would be amply shown by a comparative statement of the amounts proposed in the several districts for works of the same description. Ideally it may be laudable enough for any particular district to wish to take the lead in excellence of educational equipment; to decide that all its schools, no matter how isolated or how few the children, shall have tiled roofs, single desks, and everything corresponding; but, practically, where is the money to come from? Certainly not from the Government, which necessarily has to observe a reasonable mean in the distribution of its funds, and always to study economy. There are many other points that might be reviewed, but enough has been said to show that as long as the Government has to provide these funds there can be no slackening of control, and that.the Boards must be satisfied to have it so. The system is inevitable, and as far as can be expected it has fulfilled its purpose, but it is beyond reason irritating and laborious, and certainly no Minister who has any lengthened experience of it can fail to be driven to the conclusion that it must be remedieo. It may be asked why the Boards themselves have not proposed a remedy. The concern is vitally theirs, and they beyond all others are in the position to indicate the necessities and the essentials. To one who can review the educational history of the past thirty years the answer is plain : the Boards are incapable of taking a national view of any question. The centralizing tendency is due not to the Department, as is generally supposed, but to the inherent weakness of the Boards themselves. Each Board acts as though its particular corner were an independent State. The result of the first half-century of their administration was the deplorable condition of teachers' salaries that had to be rectified by withdrawing from the manipulation of the Boards about 80 per cent, of their income. Some years later State action was again called for in the case of the superannuation scheme that united action by the Boards might have established a generation earlier. And they are still shut up in their walls, and unable to see what lies beyond. There are indications now that the wave of a national education service is preparing to overwhelm them, and after that there will be not much left for the Boards to do. I shall be shortly going out of office, and I can afford to speak freely. 3. Mr. Pirani] I thought you could always afford to do so?— What I have said is entirely my own opinion. I can assure you honestly that the Department has no antagonism to the Boards except in so far as they come into collision with public interests which are greater than their interests. Why should it have any antagonism to Boards? There is no reason, and it has none. The Boards, of course, have done a very great deal of good work, but as I have indicated they have weaknesses too, very- largely owing to the constitution under which they act. 4. Can you indicate where the worst cases come from—from small Boards or big Boards, or is it general?— They take turns. Sometimes a wave of extraordinary propositions comes from a Board. 5. The following statement occurs in your evidence: "The result of the first half-century of their administration was the deplorable condition of teachers' salaries that had to be rectified by withdrawing from the manipulation of the Boards about 80 per cent, of their income." What does that mean, because manipulation of funds is generally supposed to imply embezzlement? —Of course, there is no intention to impute anything of that kind. 6. What does it mean? —What I meant was that whereas before the colonial scale was introduced the Boards had a very large amount of money to deal with exactly as they liked, the result of the scale was to remove from their power a very large proportion of their income. 7. But was there any- maladministration in connection with the Boards' administration of their funds? —I did not impute maladministration at all. 8. Are you aware that in 1896, before the Teachers' Salaries Act came into operation, the total amount paid to the Boards for teachers' salaries, administration expenses, and everything else was £3 15s. per head? —Yes. 9. Are you aware that now nearly double that amount is paid?— Very likely. ' 10. In 1896 the total amount paid was £453,000 for 139,302 pupils, while in 1910, with only an increase of 17,000 pupils, £582,288 was paid for teachers' salaries alone?— Very likely. 11. So that for teachers' salaries' alone per capita the Government are paying more now than they paid the Boards in 1896 when the whole of their administrative expenses were included : does that not show that the fault lay in the amount granted to the Boards and not in the Boards' administration? —I do not think it touches my point. My point was that in 1901 the total salaries fund had to be taken away from the management of the Boards and allotted according to a colonial scale. The total amount is of no importance. As far as I remember the total income of the Boards at that time was about £500,000, and the salary 7 fund amounted to about £400,000. My point was that that amount had to be taken away from the administration of the Boards and distributed equally, instead of unequally, amongst the teachers. 12. But did the Government increase the amount when they took it away?— Yes. 13. Does that not prove that the fault lay with the Government in not supplying the Boards with sufficient funds? —I do not think that is the point. 14. It is my point? —No doubt the Government gave more, but at the same time they amended the inequality that forced the passage of the Teachers' Salaries Act. 15. Then do you think it is a reflection on the Boards that with over £100,000 a year less they could not pay as good salaries as the Government could pay witli £100.000 more?— The inequality of the teachers' salaries was a reflection on the Boards and caused the passage of the Act.
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16. Do you know the reason of the inequality, say, between Otago and the North Island? —Because one district was wealthier than another. 17. Why was one district wealthier than another—they all got £3 15s. per head?— There were various reasons. •_ - 18. Was it'not because one district had its schools built, while other districts had to build their schools out of insufficient funds? —That would be one reason, of course. 19. And a very large reason? —lii some districts it was the main reason perhaps; but other districts are so small that their money was absorbed not in the payment of teachers, but in ordinary expenses. 20. But leaving out the smaller districts : take Auckland, which is the largest in New Zealand : is it not a fact that teachers' salaries in Auckland were lower than in Otago?—Yes. 21. What do you ascribe that to? —Very largely to the reason you have stated. 22. Increase in settlement?— Yes. 23. Unless a Board "manipulated" the funds paid it had not sufficient funds? —That is not the point. The point is that with the existing salary fund the inequalities of teachers' salaries were so great that the Government had to step in. 24. It is not a question of manipulation, but a question of want of money. Until the new system came in there was a want of money?— That is so. 25. Do you know any instance of wanton waste of money? —By "manipulation" I simply meant that each Board could do what it pleased with the income at its disposal. 26. Was it not part of the necessity of the employment of teachers that there should be schools for them to teach in?— What 1 wanted to point out was'that each Board conducted its affairs absolutely as if it were an independent State. The Board of Otago took no concern of the fact that Grey was not able to pay its teachers more than a starvation wage. I was remarking that the Boards never took a national view of any question. The salary question was one that the Boards as a whole might reasonably have examined into and pointed out the remedy required. 27. Do you think it was a proper thing that Otago should have handed over to Wanganui £100,000 to help them build new schools? —No; but it might have been possible for the Boards to point out to the Government that the system should be altered. 28. With regard to the instances of Boards asking for schools that were unnecessary, what proportion did these instances bear on the general applications for schools ?—A very considerable proportion —say, 15 per cent. 29. Do you not know of instances of Boards getting authority to build schools and not proceeding on the authority? —Yes. 30. It is not uncommon? —No. 31. Is that an instance of extravagance or economy? —It might be economy. 32. So that in those cases the Boards could be trusted not to expend money unnecessarily?— That is so. 33. Take Wanganui: do you not know of instances where we have underspent grants? —1 think it is very likely. 34. Do you not know of instances where we have overspent a grant and the Department has refused to pay the money overspent?— That is very likely. 35. Would you call that " manipulating " the funds? —No. 36. Do you think it is possible that the Department knew as much of all the facts as the Boards knew? —In a large number of instances it knew a good deal more. 37. Do you know that one hundred and twenty were allowed to go into that eighty school? —All those children were attending already existing schools in the Town of Wanganui. There was plenty of room for those children in schools already existing. 38. Since that school was opened a new school has been opened?— That is so. 39. Did the Department act wrongly in granting this new school, after the one at Sedgebrook was built? —There is always a movement from the towns to the suburbs, and it is always difficult for the Department to undertake the provision of new schools in suburbs when there is plenty of room in the towns. 40. Do you not think it is just as difficult for the Education Boards? —It may be a matter of only requiring children to walk a cou,ple of miles instead of one mile. 41. Can you explain why the Department refused to grant the Sedgebrook School?—I suppose it was because there was plenty of room in the other schools. 42. Can you remember why it was granted by the Department within six months subsequently? —I do not remember. 43. If 1 say it was done because of political influence would you contradict me?—l think the case was good enough on its merits. Sedgebrook has become a very large suburb. 44. Can you explain why, when the school has gone up to three hundred in attendance, the Department will not grant additional accommodation, and a big draughty hall has to be used? —I cannot explain that. 45. Take Te Arakoura School : do you know that application was made for an aided school, and the Department granted a forty school? —Very likely. 46. Are you aware that on the day the school opened there were thirty-three in attendance? —1 do not remember that. 47. Which would you call the proper application, one for an aided school or one for a properschool? —The probability is that the accommodation is largely in excess of what is required, because my knowledge is that there is adequate accommodation in the neighbouring schools. 48. Is it proper that for two years and a half pupils at Eltham had to be taught in a public nail? —I could not give an opinion without having gone into the circumstances.
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49. You complained of schools having been closed after having been built: do you remember a school and residence being built by the Department near Patea which afterwards had to be shifted I— Yes. 50. Do you think it was a proper action on the part of the Department to spend something like £1,000 on buildings that were not required?— The circumstances are perfectly explicable, and they are justifiable. The fact is that where that school was originally there was a large number of Maori children. It was in a district under the influence of Te Whiti. The Government thought it was desirable that the children should have the opportunity of going to school. They were absolutely without educational facilities. The policy of the Department as regards the establishment of Native schools is never to build a school which is not agitated for by the Maoris. 51. Do you think that should be a factor?—lt is no use building a school unless you know the Maoris want it. In this instance it was very largely a political necessity. The Government wished to do what was possible to wean the Maoris in that district from the influence of Te Whiti. It began with a good attendance, but afterwards the Maoris refused to go. 52. The Department is as liable to err in the building of schools as Education Boards? — The establishment of that school was very deliberate. 53. How many pupils were attending technical classes in Napier when the Government granted £5,000 for a technical-school building?—l have not sufficient detailed knowledge to give any information about that. It is a branch of the work that does not come under my notice. 54. You mention the case of residences being built and being unoccupied: do you think it is possible always to get married teachers for schools where there are residences? —That is the Boards' business. 55. Do you not know of instances in the W T anganui District where we have applied over and over again for teachers' residences, and the teachers' wives have been compelled to live in town? Take the case of Hautapu, for instance, where the teacher's wife had to live in town for three years? —I do not think it was reported. 56. Do you know the Aramoho residence? —Yes. 57. Do you think it is a habitable place to live in?—lt is habitable, I believe. 58. Do you know of a case where the Department has been refusing to grant house allowance to a married teacher when there is only one room attached to the school to serve as a residence ? —The position in regard to that is that Education Boards have built in many cases very small residences, residences of one or two rooms, and there are a very large number of these, probably over a hundred in the Dominion. If the Government decides to abandon these, well and good; but the Department has no right to make an exception in one case without doing it in all, and therefore you must have a decision that all one-roomed or two-roomed residences must be abandoned. If the Boards thought these small residences sufficient there is no reason to go back on their discretion. 59. May not two rooms have been sufficient at one time, and not now?—lt does not follow that because a school is larger additional rooms in the residence are necessary. 60. But if a teacher marries and gets six children, two rooms are not sufficient? —That is so. 61. We have that experience: do you think that, is proper administration on the part of the Department?—l admit you can probably get individual cases of hardship. I think the probability is, however, that we have two or three applications from your district for residences near the larger towns where the teacher can get accommodation. 62. Do you not think it is a right thing that house allowance should be paid? —An allowance is paid where there is no residence. 63. Not where one room is attached as a residence? —No. I had in my mind those cases where it is possible for a teacher to get accommodation otherwise. The Education Committee of the House of Representatives took that matter into consideration, and they recommended the Government not to build where it was possible for the teacher to get reasonable accommodation otherwise. 64. Do you think it is right that for several years children at one place on the Main Trunk line should have been kept at school in a draughty- hall with insufficient lighting, and which belongs to the railway workmen, and who turned the youngsters out every time they desired to use the hall?— The position there is that the Government built that hall for the use of the workmen and for the purpose of a school. What is now claimed is that the building should be used entirely as a hall, and the Government has said that that is not according to the agreement. 65. Because two Government Departments are quarrelling about the use of the hall are the children in the district to be allowed to suffer?—ff the residents buy the building from the Government they will no doubt get a school. 66. Is it not a rule that the Department should provide schools and sites? —That is so. 67. Is that being carried out in this instance? —The Public Works Department put up the building as a hall for the railway workmen and as a school for the children. 68. What size of school could be removed for £20 a distance of four miles, as mentioned by you?— That was the estimate given. 69. Who gave the estimate? —One who was requested to give a report. 70. When Auckland, with £14,000 balance in the bank in its building account, gets full cost for school-sites, do you not think it is a fair thing that you should notify other Boards that they can come in on the same footing?— There is no need to notify the Boards. The Government has lately come to the decision to pay in full for all new school-sites instead of half as heretofore, and each new case as it arises will be dealt with according to that rule. 71. Mr. Davidson] About that term "manipulation," I understood you to mean merely that the thirteen different Boards allocated their funds in different ways? —That is exactly- what I meant. I seem to have made an unfortunate choice of a word.
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72. You spoke of the bringing into operation of the colonial scale of salaries, and you said that certain scales were paid in different districts, andinstanced that Auckland was lower than Otago. Do you not know that one reason was that in Otago the scale of staffing was altogether different, and the teachers had to teach so-many more pupils? —I understand that, and also that in certain districts there were inequalities other than in pay. - " 73. If the residence at Aranroho were condemned by the W r anganui Board would the Department pay house allowance to the teacher?— Some years ago the Wanganui Board applied for authority to condemn, that residence and pull it down and pay house allowance. That was agreed to, and the teacher was paid house allowance accordingly. Instead of carrying out the agreement, however, the Board used the building for the purpose of a caretaker's residence. The Government can recognize only two things—either the house or the house allowance. What the Board should have done was to have made an offer to the Department for the house. The Government would have accepted any reasonable sum as so much towards the house allowance, and it would have been a fair business transaction. 74. Supposing the Board had said, "We will give you £5 a year for the house," would it not have come to the same thing?— Yes. As it is now they get a caretaker's house at the expense of the country. 75. At the expense of the teacher? —No. During the time the house was occupied by the caretaker the teacher got. a house allowance. 76. The present teacher took charge on the understanding that he was to receive a house allowance. When he took charge he found that the Board did not grant, a house allowance because the Department refused to pay it?—l am willing to admit that, but the Department's position is perfectly clear. The teacher is the servant of the Board, not of the Government. 77. Mr. Pirani] With regard to full payment for sites, why do you not give the cost of the land? You are only giving the Government valuation, surely?— That Is so. 78. Can you get land anywhere at the Government valuation? —If the Government departs from that rule, 'what is it to do ? 79. Pay the lowest price?— The Government cannot do that. 80. Do 3 7 ou not think there should be something simpler than acquiring sites under the Public Works Act? —I have not considered the matter. 81. Do 3 7 ou know that since the coming into operation of the Teachers' Salaries Act the general funds of the Boards throughout the Dominion have increased largely?— Yes. 82. So that it has been a benefit to the Boards as well as to the teachers, the taking-over of the payment of the salaries?— The general income of a Board is larger now than it used to be. 8-3. And the balances also?—I am glad to see that they are going on very satisfactorily. 84. Is it not a fact that in the past the funds were not sufficient? —I am simply making the point that for one reason or another the existing funds were not evenly distributed. 85. Mr. Wells] Do you recognize that a house that might be suitable for a caretaker might be very unsuitable for a headmaster of a large school? —Certainly. 86. Do you not think that should be taken into consideration? —The matter is in the hands of the Board. 87. Would the Department have been satisfied if the Board had pulled the Aramoho house down?— Yes; but the Government should have got the benefit when the Board retained it as a caretaker's residence. 88. Is not that an instance of extravagance —you would have allowed the house to be pulled down, but when it is used as a caretaker's residence you at once object?— The Department had no knowledge of the condition of the house. It was agreed that the house should be pulled down as being uninhabitable, but immediately the Board proved that it was habitable by using it as a caretaker's residence. 89. Mr. Pirani] Do you think a better system could be devised for the distribution of building grants than that in existence? —Yes, certainly; a system that has been devised by Mr. Hogben —a system of local rating. 90. Would not that bear hard on local districts? —That is a difficulty easily removed. 91. Do you not think it would be better to give lump sums to Education Boards?-—lt has been tried, and in no conceivable way can it be equitably arranged. The Government cannot ascertain the varying circumstances of the different districts. 92. Mr. Hogben] What is the valuation on which the Government now pays for new sites? — All cases are referred to the Valuer-General, and he advises us not only what the valuation is but what a fair price is, and his advice as to what is a fair price is accepted. That is to say, if the valuation is £300 and the Valuer-General says a fair price is £350, the Department accepts that. 93. Is there any overlapping in the office arrangements?—l do not think so. 94. Mr. Kirk] Is the Department sufficiently staffed or overstaffed?—lt is not overstaffed. A rapidly growing and expanding Department such as this is could not well be overstaffed. The Department is very well organized. 95. Full work is found for every cadet in the service? —Yes. We have had some trouble for want of experienced men, and in many cases have had to put our young people on to work beyond their years. They have done remarkably well. Nevertheless, the youth of these officersis the measure of their pay, and not the responsibility of the work, they carry out. 96. Mr. Pirani? Is there not overlapping in that your Department has an Inspector of district high schools as well as the Education Boards?—lt is one of those instances where the Government has provided certain funds and attached to them the condition that the Department shall satisfy itself that the money is adequately spent. That sort of thing cannot be helped. 97. Ts the position clearly defined between your administration and the administration of the technical branch? —I do not have anything to do with it.
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98. You do not have anything to do with technical education nor with secondary-school work. You and Mr. Hogben will soon be leaving the Department: is it not right that there should be some one in the Department who will have an insight into every branch of education? — I see no reason why the present system should not continue. 99. You think that the present is the most satisfactory?—l think it is efficient. 100. Is not there an extra amount of work under the present system?— Certainly not.
Wellington, Friday, 12th July, 1912. George Crawshaw examined on oath. (No. 194.) . The Chairman] What is your position ?—I am Secretary to the Hawke's Bay Education Board, and have held that office for six years. Prior to that I was for two years in the office of the South Canterbury Education Board, and earlier still I was teaching in South Canterbury for about thirteen years. I hold aDI certificate. 2. What do you wish to say ?—The Chairman of my Board expected to be able to attend before the Commission, but as he finds that he cannot do so he has asked me to appear in his stead and submit his statement. He says :" On behalf of the Hawke's Bay Education Board I have the honour to draw your attention to the following : —Cost of school-sites : If it could be used solely for the purposes for which it is allotted the annual grant for maintenance and rebuilding of school buildings would not be more than sufficient. The purchase of school-sites is not among these purposes, yet Boards are continually being compelled to provide part of the cost of sites for new schools. The consequence is that, as buildings must be and are maintained in a state of repair, a portion of the funds which should be in hand for rebuilding purposes is spent on school-sites, which in the opinion of my Board should be paid for by special grant, as in the case of new buildings. The Board is given an annual sum to maintain and replace its buildings and appliances, and it appears but reasonable that the initial cost of these (including the land) should be provided by the Government. Insufficient grants for new buildings : Every year my Board is compelled to expend large sums to assist in providing new schools, as the grants approved by the Department for this purpose are insufficient. At the end of 1911 my Board's debit balance on this account was £6,197 16s. 6d.; that is to say that this sum, which should be available for the replacement of buildings and furniture, has been spent in assisting to provide new schools. My Board is not extravagant in its buildings. Many are built by its own men. All are built under the supervision of its foreman, and no tender is accepted that is unreasonably in excess of the foreman's estimate previously prepared. My Board is of opinion that the Department does not always make sufficient allowance for the circumstances of the cases. Few Hawke's Bay schools are near the railway, but a large proportion are in the backblocks and can only be reached after long journeys by road. Poverty Bay and south-east Hawke's Bay roads are notoriously bad owing to the absence of metal, consequently 7 building is much more costly than in more closely settled districts that are well served by the railway. Cost of special sanitary drainage-work : Another source of extraordinary expenditure which is at present charged against the maintenance and rebuilding fund is the connection of school conveniences with new drainage systems. In all. the larger centres underground drainage is being provided, and we are compelled to connect school conveniences therewith. During the past four years we have spent £1,000 in this direction. Before the end of the year we shall be compelled to expend a further £750, and within the next two y 7 ears a further £1,000 will be required. These are large sums to have to be charged against the maintenance funds of a small Board like that of Hawke's Bay, and unless we receive assistance expenditure on the upkeep and replacement of buildings and furniture must in the near future be injuriously reduced. We are compelled by local bodies to carry out these new works, and my Board is strongly of opinion that the Government should provide at least a portion of the cost. Cost of conveyance of children in special cases :To avoid the necessity of providing new small schools my Board has recently made application for special grants for the conveyance of children to existing schools. The payment allowed, under the regulations is quite insufficient where the number of children to be conveyed is not large, and where the circumstances necessitate the driver giving practically the whole of his time to the worjf. Unless grants for the full cost are made the Board will be compelled, much against its desire, to apply for new schools. The Department has persistently refused payment of capitation where the children ride on horseback to school. My Board is convinced that it should be paid in these cases, especially where there are only tracks connecting the homes with the school. Scholarships :My Board is of opinion that Junior Scholarships should be reduced to free places, with boarding-allowances to those children compelled to live away from home to attend an approved school. School Committee allowances : Committees generally complain that, owing to the increased cost of everything, the grants made for incidental purposes are insufficient. The allowances paid by the Hawke's Bay Board have for many years been higher than those paid by any other Education Board, while, in addition, the Board's workmen carry out many of the most extensive repairs. Last year the Board paid in incidental allowances a sum equal to 6s. Bd. per head of the average attendance in the district —that is. Is. 2d. per head in excess of the minimum required by the regulations. My Board is of opinion that if subsidies were granted on amounts raised for the maintenance and improvement of primary schools, as is done in the case of district high schools, Committees would be encouraged to greater efforts, and to a very large extent their straitened financial circumstances would be relieved. Free school-books : The Board is opposed to the issue of free school-books, but if books must be supplied would prefer that instead of readers, which the parents in most cases wish to provide themselves so that the books may be taken home by the children, copy-books, exercise-books, paper, &c, should be issued." The relations between my Board and the Department are in every way excellent, but we think that many of the returns we are now expected to make might be done away
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with altogether, or at all events very greatly curtailed. I refer especially to those relating to technical education, and also the recognition of special cases in regard to the conveyance of children to school. At present each family has to be recognized by the Department. It seems to us that that makes the work very-much heavier than it need be. As we have the certificate in any case, there does not seem to be very much need for the extra work. I would suggest the desirability of amending the Act by adding a clause requiring the licensing of all private schools that have in attendance children of school age. At the present time the Act enables us to compel these children to have certificates of exemption, but it is rather a delicate matter to handle, because as a rule these schools are attended by children of the better class of people, who object to outside interference. If the onus of having a license were thrown upon the conductor of the school it would help very much to bring the attendance and instruction into line with those of the public schools. The suggestion that the public-school cadets should be demilitarized is a matter regarding which I take interest, as I have had considerable experience in military matters. I have been interviewed on the subject by quite a number of the teachers in the large schools of Hawke's Bay. I submit that squad and company drill should be retained, because the discipline brought about by a proper carrying-out of this work is helpful right through the work of the school — in the marching-in and bringing-out of the children. We all know that one of the desires of most healthy boys is to be a soldier, and by means of military drill we can teach them to carry themselves in a way that cannot be brought about by ordinary physical drill. If the result of having these things in the ordinary school curriculum is no more than teaching the boys to carry themselves well it is warranted. It would be a pity to do away altogether with the arms that are used in the schools, jjecause it is very desirable that boys should know something about the construction of a rifle, as a means of avoiding the accidents that we hear so much about. I quite agree that battalion and brigade drill are unnecessary and only waste of time, and that the chief object of the work should be physical development. In view of the statements made by Mr. Aldrich with regard to the Makaretu South School, I think it only fair that I should put forward the Board's side of the question. The facts are these : The site of the school was chosen by a member of the ward in which the school is situated quite eighteen months before the school was erected. The position was confirmed by two members of the Board who did not belong to the ward, and who have no connection with politics as far as I know. The site on which Mr. Aid ich wanted the school to be erected was on his own property, and practically close to his own house. The attendance at the new school is quite satisfactory. The school conducted by Mr. Aldrich is being carried on in a wool-shed, and is not approved by the Board's Inspectors. It was previously carried on in an old residence, which was lent for the purpose. It was not a very sanitary position, but that is now done away with. 3. Mr. Wells] You stated that the Department should pay the cost of school-sites. Is it not a fact that under a new decision of Cabinet the Department is paying the whole cost ?—We had a case some twelve or eighteen months ago where the Board applied for a grant for the purchase of 2 acres. The Department insisted upon the Board finding 3 acres, the whole of which the Department was prepared to provide. The position appears to be that the Department desires the Board to have some of the money raised by the people concerned. Where the people concerned will not, the Board has to find it or do without a school. 4. Do you know that the Government has decided within the last six months that the Department will find the whole cost of the school ? Does not that do away with the objection ? —Yes; but we have had no notification to that effect. 5. You suggest that for the conveyance of children to school the cost of the horses used should be subsidized. What do you suggest should be paid to the owners of ponies ?—I think that in some cases the payment already allowed might be sufficient. 6. Are there many Native children attending the schools in your district ? —A great many. 7. Would not the allowance of money for ponies rather suit them ?—That is a matter that I think might fairly be left to the Board. The Board would not recommend payment without making proper inquiries. 8. Have you any suggestions to make as to how the return, forms might be simplified ? —lt seems to me that the returns with regard to every handwork class, showing every change in the work during the year, might be done away with without loss to any one. 9. Do you think the time has come when payment by capitation for these subjects might be abolished, and the handwork looked upon as part of the ordinary work of the school ?—That is the opinion of the majority of the members of my Board. .10. Can you make any suggestion for the simplification of any other form ?—Form I, the salary return and details required for Grade 1 and Grade 0 schools, might be done away with, and the information sent forward en bloc. Then there could be an improvement in the form with regard to the conveyance of children. At the present time we have to make application for the approval of the Department to the conveyance of children and to mention the families likely to be affected at the time. Later on in the quarter one family may leave and another family take its place. Under the present arrangement all this information has to be sent to the Department again. With the application there is a certificate by the teacher, and that is covered by certificates by tiie Board. It appears to me that that is making additional waste of work. We have to make special inquiry from the headmaster, and the information has to be sent to the Department before it can be included in the quarterly return. All that seems to me unnecessary work. 11. What is the system of promotion in your district ?—As a general rule vacancies are advertised. Very occasionally the Board makes a transfer, but in that case it first asks the teacher whether he has any objection to going to the new district, and the Committee of that district whether it has any objection to receiving him. When vacancies are advertised the applications are placed before the Inspectors, and their recommendation is sent forward to the Committee —one name only.
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12. Do you find much objection to that ?—Very little. One or two Committees say they think they ought to have more names, but there has been little objection. The teachers are very much in favour of the one-name system, and so are the majority of the Committees. Only on very rare occasions has the Board had to depart from the Inspectors' recommendation. 13. Is the Inspectors' recommendation invariably followed ?—Almost invariably. In very few instances has it been altered, and then only after consultation with the Inspectors, and with their approval. 14. Do you see any reason why the Board should not control technical and secondary education in your district ? —After having had some experience in the matter when in South Canterbury, where the High School Board and the Education Board are in the same office, I can see no objection to its being done. I think it would avoid overlapping. 15. Would it also tend towards economy ?—I think so. 16. Is your Board making any provision for the re-erection of its wooden buildings ?—There is no special fund earmarked for it. The matter had almost gone too far before it was made plain to the Board that such a thing was expected. In any case we have no knowledge of the amount paid by the Department for this particular purpose. Besides, the fund has been so much depleted in the past owing to the expenditure on new buildings that there is nothing in it now. The Board's principle is to keep all the wooden buildings up to date. 17. Is there not a definite percentage ?—What is the use of the percentage when we do not know what value the Department attaches to particular buildings ? We have no record of it, and I understand that the Department's values are periodically changed. 18. Is that the system on which the money is paid—on the Department's valuation of the buildings ?—I understand that the Department pays according to a certain system —that is to say, that a certain percentage is paid for a certain building at a certain age. The scale is there all right, but we have no knowledge of the value of any land and of the buildings as recorded in the Department. 19. How many district high schools are there in your district ? —Three. 20. Is there any overlapping between them and the technical schools ?—I do not know that there is a great deal, inasmuch as at all our district high schools practically the whole of the children take the approved rural course. 21. Is there any overlapping between the Technical School in Napier and the High School ?— Probably there is, inasmuch as they might take the commercial course in the Technical School and practically the same in the High School. 22. Could not that overlapping be avoided if the Board controlled both schools ?—I think it might. 23. Have you any difficulty in obtaining a supply of teachers ?—Very great difficulty, particularly in the case of the small schools of Grade 0 and Grade 1. 24. What remedy would you suggest ?—The only thing I can see is to offer more money, or else we want to get a great many more teachers. 25. Have you any uncertificated teachers in the district ? —Yes, fifty-four out of about three hundred. 26. What is the proportion of girls to boys offering for service as teachers ?—I have not paid particular attention to that, but the proportion of females is very much higher than that of males. 27. Mr. Kirk] In the case of Te Haka School, mentioned by Mr. Andrew in Auckland, is it a fact that the teacher was transferred to that school from another position without the position being advertised, and without the Committee being consulted ?—No. 28. Was the name of the proposed transferee or appointee sent down? — There has been no permanent appointment made in Hawke's Bay during my time without the usual course being gone through and the Committee being consulted, and that applies to the Te Haka case. A lady teacher has had to leave to go Home for six or nine months. The appointment of a lady to relieve her cannot be regarded as other than a temporary appointment. 29. Can you make a temporary appointment for nine months? —No, only for three months; but you can renew that temporary appointment. In any case the Committee were consulted. 30. Mr. Andrew makes a direct statement that they were not ?—But the letters to the Committee have been tabled. More than that, i discussed the matter with Mr. Andrew over the telephone for quite a considerable time. 31. You reappointed the temporary teacher every three months so as to keep within the law ? —Yes. 32. I understand that the Te Haka School Committee asked you to appoint some one else ?— There is another lady assistant, and I do not think that at the time the trouble arose she had any certificate. She now has aDS certificate. The Committee wanted this young lady to be promoted. It meant that if she went up to the £120 a year position we had to fill her £90 position. The probability is that she would still have had to do the work for which she was paid £90. It is almost certain that we would not have been able to get a certificated teacher at the £90. We knew that we could get one at £120, and a very much better one to be promoted. The Board appointed a better teacher, and the teacher in the school remained in her proper position at the salary to which she had been appointed a little time before. So the school is better staffed, and there is no interference with the work of the Board. 33. Is it a fact that you did appoint a better girl ?—Unquestionably. She has a D 2 certificate, and has had many years' experience. 34. Is it not a fact that you could not appoint a teacher in the same school without invitingapplications ?—That is so. This was not the case of promotion to a head-teachership, but to an assistant position higher on the staff. Still, the same principle applies. Mr. Andrew says, I under-
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stand, that there were no letters ; but I have copies of the letters that passed, and every one of them is headed " Relieving Teacher." - 35. Have you anything to say about the Native schools ?—All I can say is that I do not see why they should not be under the Board. We have schools now that are almost entirely 7 composed of Native children. 36. From your experience can you say that you think they could quite well be administered b} 7 the Board ? —I can see no reason why they should not be, seeing that others so largely composed of Natives are. 37. What is the condition of the school buildings in your district ? —I think it is very good indeed. 38. What desks are provided ?—ln the majority of cases the long desk, 8 ft. 4 in. In the new schools we are putting in single or dual desks from Standard 111 upwards. In the other schools we are putting in long desks, but not so long as in the old days. Where we are renewing we are putting in single or dual desks for the upper classes. 39. So far as new buildings are concerned, do you think it would be wise to send the plans to the Government Architect in all cases, so that the latest improvements could be noted and recommended ? —I think there is no objection to that, provided it did not cause undue delay. 40. Do you think it would be advisable in the interests of education generally to enlarge the boundaries of the district —say by making Taranaki, Wanganui, and Hawke's Bay into one district ?— lam convinced that districts should not be too small. Up to a certain size there is an advantage in having a large rather than a small district, because the same administration will serve for a large as a small district. 41. Is there not a certain community of interest between the districts I have mentioned ?—lt would be a very big district to handle. When I say that Hawke's Bay is a small district I merely speak of the number of schools. But the extent of country we cover is huge. 42. From the point of view of the members who would be elected from that district, and their facilities for attending meetings, would not the area I have indicated be advisable ?—I think Taranaki would be almost too far from Hawke's Bay. It would be a two days' journey. 43. Would it not be just as easy for a man to get from Taranaki or Wanganui to Napier as for a man from Tokomaru to do so ?—Much more so, because the journey would be made by rail. 44. Then no serious objection to the proposal presents itself ? —I do not think there is any, but before giving a definite reply I would like to go into the question of boundaries altogether. 45. Mr. Davidson] Have you heard of the Committees complaining of the inadequacy of the allowances for incidental purposes in other districts than Hawke's Bay and South Canterbury ?—I think it is a pretty general complaint. 46. Would you be surprised to learn that these are the only districts from which we have had complaints ?—I would. 47. Does your Board not grant any subsidies on the local contributions raised by 7 School Committees ?—We do. We have a regulation which says that all moneys raised by the School Committees shall, if approved by the Board, be subsidized pound for pound. 48. Would it not be advisable that local bodies should have power to rate for the upkeep of schools, and that the amounts so raised should be liberally subsidized by the State ?—The trouble would be that it would press hard on the districts just opened up, where they have as much as they can do in carrying on at present, 49. Suppose that such districts were more liberally subsidized than others ?—lf a satisfactory scheme of that kind could be evolved it would meet the case. 50. Would not the general public take more interest in education if they had to provide for some small portion of the expenditure out of direct taxation ?—I do not think they would be so fond of making applications. 51. Do you think a School Committee should have a right to interfere in the educational work of the school ? —I am quite sure they should not. 52. Mr. Pirani] What is your system of paying salaries ?—Payments of all kinds are made by cheque. 53. Have you not heard of the system which is in force in Wanganui and South Canterbury, under which payment is made through the banjs: ?—We tried to get my Board to adopt it, but the teachers claimed that there are not sufficient bank branches in the district to make it convenient. We have adopted it to some extent, in that all Gisborne payments are made through the Gisborne bank. 54. Is it the experience of your Board that the maintenance and rebuilding grant is very much in excess of the requirements for maintenance only ?—We find that the two grants are only about sufficient to keep the schools in proper condition. 55. Have you looked into the question of the grading of teachers, and the promotion of teachers by transfer ? —The Board has had that under consideration, and has conferred with the Teachers' Institute in the matter. The Board had a scheme before it, but the Institute was not quite able to agree about it. The matter was referred back to the Institute to come to some final agreement. I think it is the Board's intention to adopt the scheme when it has the approval of the teachers. The only disagreement is as to the allotment of marks. 56. Do you think, seeing that there are only three schools in the district in Grades 9 and 10, that there are sufficient opportunities for the promotion of teachers ?—The scope is certainly not very large. 57. Have you considered the question of formulating a Dominion promotion scheme ?—The Board has considered the matter, but I think the members are pretty well evenly divided in regard to it. On the whole, I think they are in favour of each Board having its own staff. 58. Do you admit that in the smaller districts, where the opportunities of promotion are very few, it is not in the best interests of education that teachers should be confined in the way of promotion to their own little districts ?—ln my opinion they ought to have the wider opportunity.
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59. If such a district as Mr. Kirk suggested were formed, would it not tend towards the betterment of the condition of the teachers in the matter of promotion ?—Undoubtedly. 60. Mr. Hogben] Do you say that the maintenance and rebuilding grants together are only just sufficient to pay for the maintenance of the buildings ? —The two together are merely sufficient to enable us to carry on, taking into consideration the additional expense we are involved in in connection with the amounts we have to pay for new schools. The Board has no separate fund for rebuilding, but is rebuilding all the time out of that fund, so that the two are taken as one. The amount is sufficient, but there is no balance to set aside for the replacement of buildings that may require to be replaced. 61. Surely you know what it cost your Board for maintenance in the five years preceding 1903 '? —No. 62. Would you be surprised to learn that it is considerably less than 3 per cent. ? —That was before my time, and Ido not know. Ido know that up to that time the Board paid from its Administration Fund considerable sums into the Building Fund. 63. Would it be a very difficult sum in arithmetic, considering that yon return to us the floorspace of the buildings, and you know how much of the money is given for rebuilding and how much for maintenance ? —I was under the impression that the grants were made on the value of the buildings and the floor-space. 64. But you could ascertain what 3 per cent, on so-much per square foot would amount to ?— Where are we to get it from ? 65. You return the area, and then you have the total amount ? —Yes, but for rebuilding and maintenance together. 66. Is it not true that if you save on the repairs too much the building will not last long, and you will get 10 per cent, for a long period ? —That is what we anticipate. 67. Even if the building is extinguished at its average age ?—That is so. 68. Are you aware that the amount is found by subtracting the money you had actually spent for maintenance from the total amount given to you —that the remainder is what you have for rebuilding ?—But we do not show rebuilding and maintenance separately, so you could not have the information. 69. You think you have got enough to provide for these buildings that are likely to fall in presently ? —I think we have, taking the Building Fund as a whole. 70. Do you keep any schedule of the schools according to age, as has been suggested by the Department ?—We have a schedule showing the ages of the schools. 71. And according to that you have funds enough ?—I think so, for normal conditions. If we had two or three bad fires we could not meet them. 72. In regard to Native schools, can you say generally that the Education. Department has not offered to hand over several Native schools ?—The Department has never offered to hand over any particular school since I have been there. 73. Has the Board put up any schools in the neighbourhood of Native schools ? —I think the year before I went to Hawke's Bay they put up a school at Tokomaru Bay, where there is a Native school. There are two schools now in close proximity. The Board has a very good school there. 74. The Board was not prepared to take over the Native school ?—I have no knowledge of that. 75. Do you know the position at Mohaka ?—I know the school. 76. Did the Board succeed there with its policy in regard to Native children ?—The Board has a very fine school at Mohaka. 77. Do you know that it is illegal to spend any money voted for maintenance and rebuilding on new buildings ?—I do, but what are we to do ? 78. Have you spent it out of that fund and not shown it as a deficit against new buildings ?— It is shown as a deficit against new buildings. 79. Of course, that is beyond the 7 per cent, for alterations ? —Yes. 80. In how many years have you spent £6,198 out of grants for new buildings ?—That I cannot say. Before 1903, as you know, the accounts were arranged differently, and evidently a portion of this overexpenditure on new buildings was brought down in 1903 when the accounts were rearranged. 81. Is not the bulk of that to a wrong adjustment of the accounts in 1903 ? —I cannot say it is, but I assume it is. 82. Is it not unfair to charge that against new buildings when it is due to a wrong adjustment of accounts ?—Of course, you cannot call it a wrong adjustment when the Audit Department approved of it. 83. Do you know that the Education Department is endeavouring to adjust that matter with the Audit Department now for you ?—No, I did not. 84. The Board has really not intentionally spent the money illegally, but used the balance standing there, and hopes to get it adjusted ?—That is the position. 85. The Chairman] With respect to that return No. 1 and the proposed simplification to which I called your attention, previous to the coming into operation of the Teachers' Salaries Act all these details that are now asked for in that return were not called for ?—That is so. 86. In regard to the conveyance of children, as there are rules for the guidance of the Boards with respect to distance and roads, would it not be preferable if the Boards were allowed to furnish a certified claim at the end of each quarter for the amount due for that special service ?—I think it would be a very proper thing, unless the Department can make use of much of the detail given to it. 87. If there should be an overpayment at any time does it not admit of easy adjustment ?—Very. 88. Have you considered the question of the proposed Council of Education for the Dominion, representative, as it would be, of the various phases of education : do you think such a Council would make for uniformity of interpretation and continuity of policy ?—I think it would.
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89. And therefore is advisable so long as the personnel can be satisfactorily adjusted ?—Yes. 90. Mr. Kirk] Is the Board making due provision for playgrounds in growing districts ? —Yes. Wherever Government blocks are being cut up we have got the Lands Department to promise that they will reserve us a piece of 5 acres, and they are doing so. - 91. Is it not a fact that on the East Coast the expenses of inspectorial visits are very heavy ? — Yes. 92. As the European schools have to be inspected on the coast as well as the Native schools, could there not be a saving by having the work done by one Inspector ?—Unquestionably. 93. The district is a very rough and hard one to do ? —Exceedingly so. 94. And. the same remarks apply to Gisborne downwards ? —Yes. The whole of the PovertyBay end, where the Native schools are, is difficult of access and costly to work. 95. The Chairman] Will you please tell me what is the practice of your Board in the case-of Grade 3 schools which happen to go up a grade through increased attendance. In the event of that happening, do you transfer the teacher in charge of the school, or permit her to retain her position with the aid of an assistant, as contemplated, by the staffing scale ?—When a school is raised to Grade 4 an assistant is appointed if the teacher in charge is considered competent to manage under the new conditions. The prospects of the district are taken into consideration, and where there is a probability of the attendance increasing so that the school would be raised a further grade, a male or strong female teacher is appointed, and the late teacher either transferred or (if a female) offered the assistantship. Margaret Lorimer examined on oath. (No. 195.) 1. The Chairman] What is your position ? —I am Principal of the Girls' College at Nelson, and I have held that position for six years and a half. Previous to that I was in charge of the Mount Cook Girls' School, and assistant in the Christchurch Girls' High School. lam an M.A. of the New Zealand University, and am classified Al in the Department. 2. Have you any statement to make in regard to the subject-matter of our inquiry ?—Yes. First as to the primary-school syllabus : Judged by what one reads of educational movements in other countries and by one's own experience the primary-school syllabus is undoubtedly on good and up-to-date lines, but it needs for its interpretation much higher teaching ability and a broader and more intelligent outlook on the part of the teacher than sufficed for the syllabus and system it superseded. Adverse criticism of it frequently arises from a cursory and superficial acquaintance with it, and the kind of efficiency which it has produced, though it may to the casual observer appear inferior, is preferable to that produced by the old system. The latter certainly gave a certain glibness of expression, because it was largely book-knowledge poured in in readiness for being poured out at examination-time, but the observational faculties were trained hardly at all, and originality was not encouraged. The pupils were all. turned out in the same mould. In arithmetic, for instance, they were taught to manipulate long vulgar and decimal fractions which would never occur in actual calculations ; they measured carpets, wall-paper, and timber by methods giving quite different results from those employed by upholsterers, or paperhangers, or builders. The present syllabus has reduced the amount oi work and encouraged more rational methods, but a still further reduction would be an improvement. Geography was formerly regarded as a purely informational subject; now, rightly taught, it is largely intellectual and ethical, and of very great interest. Instead of being expected to repeat by rote lists of names, children are now taught the relation between cause and effect, and geography has become a branch of natural science—rather more difficult to teach perhaps, but of infinitely greater educational value. Manual and technical work has received due recognition, and the general result of the new system has been in the direction of developing all the powers of the child, its reasoning faculties, its powers of observation, its originality, in place of making its brain merely a receptacle for absorbing other people's ideas. The kind of training it giyes should produce a more self-reliant type of character. The secondary-school syllabus is built upon that of the primary school, and it would, I consider, be advantageous to eliminate from both some of the arithmetic. Girls with little mathematical ability spend hours a week wrestling with problems such as would never be met with in actual experience. It may be good mental training, but it is got at too great expense, and the time which might be saved wjuld be better spent in English or history or some more humanizing subject. I am of opinion that the standard required in arithmetic in New Zealand is considerably above that required in England from schools of a similar type, and the degree of efficiency in this subject required for the Junior Civil Service and Continuation Examinations is greater than that hitherto required for Matriculation, a much more difficult examination in every other subject. If the problems were simpler in character one would be able to devote more .time to mental arithmetic, a more valuable type of question. Relation of primary and secondary schools : There is in some quarters a tendency on the part of secondary-school teachers w 7 ho have never had primary-school experience to criticize unfavourably the results of these schools, without making allowance for the rawness of some of the material to be dealt with, the large classes to be handled, and other disadvantages. Too many fail to recognize the magnitude and importance of the work they do and their value as a training-ground for teachers. These schools are not to be regarded as merely preparatory to secondary schools. A large proportion never go beyond primary work, and there is no reason why their work should be specially modified to fit in with ours later on. There is no reason, for instance, why they should learn English grammar in detail merely because it would be an aid to the study of foreign languages; but since we are here to say what we think, it would be a help if all the schools, and not merely the better ones, would teach the parts of speech and general analyses of sentences, also if there could be some uniformity of method in the teaching of arithmetic. As a matter of fact, we have to spend a considerable portion of the first year of free tuition in revising Sixth Standard work —teaching girls to use methods upon which their later work in arithmetic may be built up. It would be a help also if they knew the elements of English history. This subject of recent
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years, except in cases where the headmaster is an enthusiast over it, has received neither in primary nor secondary schools the attention it deserves. It was thought that pupils, with a little'|encouragement, would read the subject for themselves, but want of time or of inclination has prevented them from doing so, and it has been possible for some]pupils to reach the Sixth Form in a state of profound ignorance of the subject, unable to understand even the more important historical allusions with which much of our literature teems. We teach'them that they are " the heirs of all the ages," but they must know also what the ages have brought them. The lack of historical associations in this country makes the history of England more or less a remote thing, but a knowledge of it is essential if young NewZealanders are to see their own little country in true perspective. Overlapping is not a serious matter in Nelson. There is a preparatory department of thirteen or fourteen —one of the most successful branches of the College work, and self-supporting ; and at the other end a varying number of girls for terms —never more than six. They certainly do entail a great amount of work, but we have been induced to undertake it because otherwise these girls would have no opportunity of obtaining the degree. The Technical School affects us to only a small extent. Occasionally girls who find that they are required at home leave College and take the eight-hours-a-week course at the Technical School. 3. Mr. Wells.] I gather that you consider the mental equipment of the boys and girls who come on to you from the primary schools is on the whole quite satisfactory ?—Yes. Of course, the girls from the bigger schools are on the whole better prepared than those from the small country schools, but that one would expect. 4. We have heard a good deal in the course of our travels about the pronunciation of English by boys and girls : what have you to say about the girls ?—We are always waging war against the colonial accent. 5. Do you think things are becoming worse ? —Yes, I think so. 6. Over what period are you speaking of when you say that ?—1 noticed it at Mount Cook School, and I notice it at Nelson College. The particular vowels that are so badly treated are " a," " i," and " o." A great many children in Wellington talk about " Dy's By "; " time " is " toime," and " flour " is " fleour." They twist the vowel sound. We are trying to deal with it in our College by having a teacher of elocution. I tell the girls who think of becoming pupil-teachers and whose accent is objectionable to take lessons in elocution, and I find it makes a great difference. I know this impurity of pronunciation is in some cases a deterrent to better-class people sending small children to the primary schools. It is by no means universal, but some teachers have this fault themselves. 7. Do you think the fault is more pronounced in the primary school than it is in the private school ? —Oh, yes ;it is quite different. 8. .Do you not think that one very often finds a good deal of affectation in the pronunciation in private schools ? —I think there is a little sometimes. 9. Do you think it would improve matters if some attention was paid to phonics in the primary schools ? —Undoubtedly. 10. What is the constitution of your High School ? —We have a Board of Governors constituted under special Act. 11. Are there endowments ? —There are for the Boys' College, but nothing for ours, 1 think. 12. What fees are charged ?—Twelve guineas for girls over twelve, and eight guineas for those under, but reduced to £12 and £8 if paid in advance. We have between 160 and 170 pupils, and the staff consists of five resident and two non-resident teachers besides myself. We take a large number of free-place pupils. As far as I can remember, the salaries of the staff are —first assistant (resident), £170 ; second (non-resident), £160 ; third (resident), £120 ; fourth (resident), £110 ; fifth (resident), £100 ; sixth (resident), £90 ; and seventh (non-resident), £100. All have the degree of M.A. except the last-named, who is in charge of the preparatory department. 13. If your education district were enlarged, do you think there is any reason why the Board of Education should not have a general control over the secondary institutions in it ?—That might be satisfactory. 14. Mr. Davidson.] Have you a commercial course in connection with your College ? —No. 15. Have you just one course in the College for all girls ? —No. We have hitherto classified girls according to ability, and the better girls take what we call the full course, including Latin and another foreign language and mathematics. Those who have not much ability do not take Latin and mathematics. We hope to introduce at the beginning of next year a domestic-science course. 16. Will you make that domestic-science course compulsory on all girls ?—We make either cooking or dressmaking compulsory on all girls at present, and we shall continue to do that. 17. Do you not teach typewriting, shorthand, or book-keeping ?—No ; shorthand is taught privately. 18. Do you think it is desirable that these subjects should be taught as far as possible in the technical schools ?—I think so. As a matter of fact, Ido not think girls ought to be encouraged to go in for that kind of work to any great extent. 19. What is the average number of pupils per teacher in your school ?—I suppose something over twenty. 20. What do you consider the most desirable number ? —About twenty-five. 21. Are your teachers satisfied with their salaries ?—No, I do not think they are. I. think the lower-paid teachers are not satisfied. They naturally compare their salaries with the salaries given to men teachers. They consider they have the same qualifications and the same work to do, but the emolument is not so good. 22. Are the teachers in the Boys' College much more liberally treated ?—They are. It is a question of supply and demand as a rule. We can always get teachers, but it is much more difficult to get a supply of men teachers.
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23. Do you find any 7 difficulty in getting trained teachers for the College ?—Most of our teachers have been through the Training College. All other things being equal, I much prefer them to have been through the Training College. 24. Would you advocate that arrangements should be made for the training of secondary-school teachers in New Zealand ? —I think it is most desirable. 25. Mr. Pirani] Do you know of any overlapping in education in your district: are there public institutions doing the same work as is done in your College ?—I think not. 1 think there was an attempt to found day classes at the Technical School, but I understand that these classes were very small, indeed —I think there were only five regular students. 26. And the Department declined to recognize the day classes ? —I believe so. 27. Have you had any experience of the teaching of sex physiology in your school by any lady doctor ?— No. 28. Do you think it would be advisable ?—I think, of course, that kind of instruction comes best from the parent, but I think it is very probable that some parents neglect it, and therefore perhaps the best thing would be to have a lady doctor speak to the girls on the subject. 29. In regard to the training of secondary-school teachers, do you think there is any lack of the special training such as primary-school teachers get at training colleges ?—There is, decidedly. Young graduates are rather inclined to think that the degree matters, and that they can do without professional reading or training. I do not think they would need a long course of training, providing they were kept at secondary work, but I consider the training in primary-school work is excellent for secondaryschool teachers. A trained primary-school teacher requires no further training for secondary-school work, because I consider a higher teaching skill is required in the primary school than in a secondaryschool. The teacher in the secondary school requires more knowledge, and I think on the whole less skill. 30. Do you think it is any 7 handicap to a secondary-school teacher to have had considerable experience in teaching in primary schools ?—lt is an advantage, decidedly. 31. Do you admit free in your College all who pass the Proficiency Examination ?—Yes. 32. Do you not think that that system is being rather overdone : that there is too much tendency to admit girls who will not gain very much by the secondary instruction ? —I think that the girls themselves appreciate it, and I think if the courses are modified to suit their abilities that the money is not being wasted upon them. 33. Do you think it would be advisable to bring some pressure to bear so that they should spend at least two years in a secondary school after they take up the free place ?—I think it w 7 ould be advisable, but the majority do that in my school, unless illness or something of the kind happens at home. 34. Do you think that the complaint that the boys and girls who are taken out of the primary school now are not so efficient in arithmetic as they used, to be is due to the fact that more time and attention used to be devoted to mental arithmetic ? —I think it is. 35. Generally such a system was not so much to the advantage of the pupils ?—I do not think the old system was, but I think we could with advantage do more mental arithmetic. 36. Is the Mount Cook Girls' School a suitable building for a primary school ?—lt is very old and out of date, and I think it is about time it was pulled down and replaced by a decent building. 37. Do you think the teachers are handicapped to any extent in their work in that school ? —I think there were disadvantages when I was there, such as the rattling of windows and the difficulty of obtaining proper ventilation. It is a two-storied wooden building. 38. The Chairman] Does not the undue size of the classes have a, powerful effect on the morale of the school ?—lt does, certainly. 39. Mr. Hogben] You know that the syllabus lays emphasis on mental arithmetic or what is called oral arithmetic ?—Yes. 40. It is simply a fashion that has grown up in the schools not to give quite as much attention to mental arithmetic as you would like to see ? —Yes. 41. Do you think the average girl ought to do two foreign languages ? —Not the average girl ; only the girl who may want to proceed to higher education. 42. If there was one foreign language, what would you make it? —Either French or German. 43. A modern language ? —Yes. -"" 44. The Chairman] I would like to ask your opinion as to the vexed question of the position that the infant-mistress should occupy on the staff : if, for example, an infant-mistress be removed from that position and made a standard teacher, teaching as high as Standard VI, and another infantmistress be brought in, would it be right or just that the teacher promoted at the discretion of the headmaster should be deprived of the rights she held as infant-mistress if the salary attaching to that position is the highest in the school on the female side ?—The infant-mistress has to be responsible, under the headmaster, for quite a large body of children, and if she is a trained and., capable teacher I think she should have the higher salary. 45. Mr. Kirk] Are the primary schools in your district to your knowledge provided with suitable furniture in the way of desks ?—I do not know. 46. Is your school provided with dual or single desks ?—We have some very ancient dual desks and some new single desks. The new ones are quite suitable. 47. Do you strongly approve of the single desk ?—I prefer them. 48. The Chairman] Have you any fixed opinion on the question of co-education : do you think it is desirable to separate the sexes in the primary schools, say, at Standard IV, or should we retain the mixed schools throughout ? —I think in the large centres it is desirable that the older girls should be under the charge of mistresses, if you can get capable women for the work. I know it is quite.inrpossible in the smaller schools. I think the girls are rather apt, to take advantage of the chivalry of men.
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Henry John McLean examined on oath. (No. 196.) 1. The Chairman] What is your position ?—I am a doctor of medicine practising in this city 1 am president of the local division of the British Medical Association. 2. Have you any statement to make on the subject-matter of our inquiry ?—I wish to explain - that, although many of these points have been approved by our committee, still many of the opinions lam going to express are my own. I have only dealt with certain points that struck me as being matters of more or less special interest. In dealing with some educational matters from a medical aspect I shall at first refer to the subject of school buildings and equipment. The schoolhouse should be situated where the air can freely circulate, and where the light is not obstructed and the locality is not noisy or dusty. A standard schoolroom should be oblong in shape, 30 ft. by 25 ft with a height of 13 ft., giving each pupil a floor-space of 15 ft., and allowing 200 cubic feet of air per head. It ought to be a compulsory regulation that under no circumstances should more pupils be admitted into a school or schoolroom than can be provided with this amount of floor-space and air; also that no reduction of these amounts should be made because the classes may be primary ones and the children small. The lighting of a schoolroom is naturally a most important point. ' The glass-area should equal one-fourth of the floor-space. The main supply must come from the left. If it is in front the light comes directly on the pupils' eyes ; if from the right it casts a shadow of the hand ; from the rear the teacher gets the disadvantage of having the light in his eyes. Where the light from the left is not sufficient, it may be augmented by a smaller amount from the right or rear. If necessary, lighting from above may be considered in connection with one-story buildings. The windows should reach as near to the ceiling as possible. The window-sills on the left should be 4 ft. high ; those on the right or rear 8 ft. The systems of ventilating and warming will depend partly on the size of the schools If these are not good the work done by the pupils will suffer, as well as their health. As regards ventilation there are many methods in use, and a combination of some of these is often adopted In a standard schoolroom the inlet and outlet should each have an area of at least 4 ft., and each child should get 30 cubic feet of fresh air per minute. In moderate-sized and small schools, where it would be impossible to install an expensive system of mechanical ventilation, a well-arranged system of natural ventilation will meet all requirements. Where a school is large enough to warrant a hot-water-pipe system for heating purposes, the ventilation can be worked in conjunction with it. In smaller schools the ventilatmg-grate is useful for warming and ventilating. The temperature of the rooms should be about 65° Fahr. When the rooms are not in use the opportunity should be taken to open the windows and doors. Having settled as to what are the essentials in the construction, &c of a schoolroom, it now remains to design the schoolhouse so that every room conforms to those essentials In designing school buildings I would suggest that verandahs be added, so that some classes might be held in the open air. I think this might be arranged without the pupils' attention being distracted by outside matters. I believe that many school buildings have been carried out on faulty lines and that the matter is dealt with by the-local Boards. It seems to me that all plans, specifications' &c should be carefully examined by a central expert, and approved by him before adoption, or standard plans might be drawn up for the different grade schools. These latter would have to be designed to provide for future enlargement. An important matter in schools is what amount of work may be done by the pupils at different ages and of different sexes. The mental and physical powers have to be developed, and neither at the expense of the other. This is done by exercise, which must not be excessive. In the early years great care should be taken that the mental powers are not forced and that a natural instinctive method of learning and thinking be encouraged. I am of opinion that the kindergarten system should be extended so that children, should not receive formal teaching until they arrive at seven years of age. This is also the opinion of many members of my profession in Wellington. It seems to me that there should be a State system of kindergartens, and the children pass at that age to the ordinary school. That is the opinion held by most of the doctors in Wellington In the earlier years of regular school life, up to, say, ten years, four hours a day should be sufficienttwo in the morning and two m the afternoon—with an interval at each hour." At this age the mind cannot concentrate itself for more than an hour. During this period home-work is not desirable. Above ten the amount can be increased corresponding with the age, and a certain amount of homework carried out. Commencing with twenty hours of work a week at age ten this could increase as follows : Age ten, twenty hours ; age twelve, twenty-five hours ; age fourteen, thirty hours ; age sixteen, thirty-five hours. These figures would not include time spent in games, gymnastics, &c Now, although we should watch that the child is not overtaxed in its studies, so we should be careful that its nervous energy, which is necessary for its mental exercises, is not wasted by other means which are harmful or of no benefit. Physical culture is necessary for brain-growth as much as mental exercise is for brain-development; a healthy brain requires a healthy body to nourish it. I trust that physical culture will be under the direction of the medical inspectors. The store of nervous energy may be diminished by exhausting games and exercises without sufficient rest—late hours, evening entertainments, fatigue of travelling long distances to school, &c —but I would like'to draw attention especially to children doing work apart from their studies, such as milking, delivering papers, &c. It is hardly necessary for me to point out that this is bad for the child both physically and mentally. This combination of work and study we see also among adults and adolescents— e.g., pupil and other teachers who have the trying concentrated work of teaching and studying, and also the encroachment on the school holidays. Much the same thing is seen in the training of nurses, and in both cases I am sure the tax on the nervous system is more than it should be. and is also aggravated by numerous examinations. Of late years the tendency has been to raise the standard in different branches of learning. This raising the standard has in a great many cases simply meant increasing the difficulty of the examination with its increased cramming, and without increasing the efficiency of the individual. Whether anything of this has taken place in the teaching profession Ido not know,
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but it has in the nursing profession. Medical inspection of schools : The medical inspection of schools which is being inaugurated will be of great benefit, and the scheme has the approval of the medical profession as a whole. As these officers will be at the disposal of the Education Department I will not refer to the ordinary hygiene of schools. They will note physical defects in the children, and also instruct the teachers. One of the most important points for a teacher to notice is the presence of fatigue, mental and physical. Is a child being overworked ? Is it tired physically so that it cannot fix its attention ? Is its general health such that it is not able to perform the tasks it used to or ought to do ? As regards sex physiology, no one outside the medical profession knows how much is included under this. Certain facts have to be learnt, and they should be learnt at the proper time and in the proper way. Who are the right ones to deal with this ? I say the parents. If they fail in their duties, and as the State is gradually assuming the duties of the parents, the State must do it through the schools. I am afraid very few teachers are competent to deal with this matter properly, but in our new medical inspectors we will have the right and capable persons to deal with this important subject. Co-education :lam of opinion that mixed classes should be limited to those under ten years of age. In conclusion, I wish to draw attention to a matter which has come under my 7 notice. When a child is away from school on account of illness the parents are harassed by the teacher or Truant Inspector, and the child goes back before it is well. The child is also anxious to go back, knowing that the teacher has been pressing in the matter. I feel sure this attitude is not taken up by the majority of teachers, still cases exist. The schools are graded and the salaries of teachers regulated by the average attendance, and this fact must have some influence. 3. Mr. Wells] Do you think that the evil of child-labour is very prevalent in this district ?—No, 4. Have many instances come under your notice ?—Not many ; paper-boys generally. 5. Do you know anything of the conditions prevailing in the country districts in regard to milking ? —Only from the newspapers. 6. In regard to the teaching of sex physiology, do you think such instruction should be given to a class of, say, forty or fifty of the elder pupils grouped-together ? —I think it would be much better if it could be arranged for small classes. Of course, ideally it ought to be dealt with individually 7. 7. You think it is not a subject that teachers as a rule handle well ? —As a rule I think not. It is a difficult matter to handle. 8. Have many instances of strain from working for examinations come under your notice ? — Of course, it is hard to say whether one would call them many or not, but odd cases certainly do. 9. Not in connection with primary-school children, I imagine ?—Sometimes. Children are sometimes very anxious and keen. 10. Mr. Kirk] What are your reasons for suggesting that mixed education should be limited to children under ten years of age ? —That was the conclusion come to at a meeting of some members of the medical profession—that that was the lowest figure at which any sex ideas could enter children's minds. 11. Do you think that mere separation in separate schools would tend to decrease the tendency in any way ? —lt might not make much difference, but it was on those grounds that we fixed that, figure. The educative question was not considered. 12. As a medical practitioner has anything come under your notice which would suggest to you that any bad practices are being followed by the youth in the schools ?—Yes, but I must say not very much. Of course, the great sexual trouble among boys at school who have reached the age of puberty is that of masturbation. I have not had here sufficient grounds for knowing that it is at all prevalent, although from what one hears of other schools, and what one has gleaned from boys who have been at these schools, it would seem that these practices are very prevalent. 13. Mr. Davidson] Are you speaking of the primary or secondary schools ?—More of the secondary. 14. Mr. Kirk] Are you speaking oi secondary boys' schools where co-education is not followed ? —Yes. 15. Does that rather go to disprove the contention against co-education ?—I do not think that follows. Ido not say if you had mixed schools the evil would be less. 16. Do you think it is the result of co-education in the primary schools, or that it has anything to do with it ? —I do not think it has anything to do with it. 17. Mr. Davidson] Do you think ti>at these medical officers who have been appointed should endeavour to educate the parents as far as possible on this subject ?—lt is a question whether it would be possible or not. I think most parents think they know all about it. 18. In connection with the higher examination of girls, have you had any opportunities of judging as to the strain such an examination as the Junior University Scholarship has upon them ?—I cannot say that I have. 19. What is your opinion as to the strain, mentally and physically, on a girl who attempts to prepare for these higher examinations ?—lt depends largely on the temperament and the extent to which she works, but in the case of an ordinary girl with ordinary work I do not think she should be affected either bodily or mentally. 20. Mr. Pirani] In regard to the mixed primary schools, I suppose you are aware that girls occupy separate playgrounds, and that they are separate from the boys in the schoolroom ?—Yes. 21. With proper oversight by teachers is it possible for any danger to arise? —They have the opportunity of mixing outside. 22. When going home ?—Yes. 23. Would not their mixing at churches, Sunday schools, and picture-shows be much more dangerous than to have them together under the oversight of a certificated teacher ?—There is no reason why there should be extra opportunity. 24. Is there an extra opportunity ? —I think there is.
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25. Separated in the playground and in the class-room ?—There is always the going and coming from home. 26. Do you not think there is that same danger even with separate schools ?—I expect they would get together in any case. 27.- Do you think that the salaries paid to female teachers ranging from £90 to £240 is low compared with what nurses are paid ?—I do not think it is. 28. A nurse commences training at what age ?—Twenty-one years, and serves three years. At the end of their training they get £70 a year in addition to board and lodging—that is, of course, in a public institution. The following is a-list of salaries paid in one hospital : Matron, £225 ; sub-matron, £1.50 ; head nurses, £100 to £120 ; sisters, £70 to £90 ; qualified nurses, £70. In no hospital in New Zealand of any size is the Matron's salary less than £200. 29. Do you know any institution in which they work less than eight hours a day ?—No. 30. Would you say that the strain on a teacher was greater for five hours' work of teaching than was the strain of a nurse for eight hours' work of nursing ? —Nursing may vary a good deal with the duties, but I should say the strain was about equal. 31. The Chairman] What do nurses get for outside work ?—Three guineas a week. But that is casual work. They are found while under engagement, but when not engaged have to keep themselves. 32. Mr. Pirani] Taking the responsibilities of a Matron of a large hospital, say, at £200 a year, would you say it was a better position than that of the head of an infant school at £250 with five hours' work a day ?—ls that limited to five hours ? 33. With infant children it is limited to four hours ?—lt is hard to say. A teacher's work during her working-time is very concentrated if she is worth her salt. 34. Is not a Matron's work more concentrated ?—lt is not so concentrated as a teacher's. 35. It lasts for twelve hours ?—She is on the premises most of the time. 36. Mr. Hogben] With regard to co-education, is not the evil you spoke of the result of mental growth following physical growth ?—That is so. 37. Would it not be better to make it a rule that separation took place at twelve years of age, for teaching purposes ?—Generally speaking it might be, but there may be pernicious examples below twelve. 38. Is not 24 ft. from the blackboard considered the limit for children in schools by the London and Scotland authorities ? —I do not know that, but I know that authorities lay down 30 ft. 39. What authority ? —I can quote authorities like Clay. 40. Does not the floor-space depend on the number in the class so long as you can keep all within the limits of light ? If there was a class of fifty you could not allow more than 12 square feet in the room you specify ? —Why allow as much as 12 ft. if you can cram in more ? 41. We are thinking of the air-space ? —I say we must have the floor-space. 42. Floor-space is one of the elements in giving sufficient air accommodation ?—Yes. 13. We have to consider eyesight as well as air ?—Yes. 44. The amount of floor-space we can spare will depend on the number in the class, or else we shall be taking them too far away from the blackboard and the light ?—But you are still going to give full space on the floor, are you not ? 45. If you make the class smaller ? —That is my point. I want you to make the class smaller and give the requisite amount of air. 46. If we cannot afford to pay the teachers in order to make the classes smaller we will have to make the floor-space smaller ?—The limit I gave would give enough for any teacher —that is, forty to forty-eight. 47. That does not quite conform with the London County Council standard. Do you think that standard is too severe ?—The difference is not very great. No doubt the best thing is to fix a definite standard which is approved of, and adhere to it. 48. The Chairman] Do you think it is desirable that the Education Department should have the services of an up-to-date architect as an adviser to the several Boards who administer the matter of buildings and playgrounds and their natural accessories ? —I think it would be a saving if they had some expert like that. 49. Do you think it is desirable to enforce some regulation such as is in existence in London with regard to child-labour ? —I think itiwould. Of course, Ido not know that that evil here is very great now, but small as it is I think it has a tendency to grow. Harry Lewis Fowler examined on oath. (No. 197.) 1. The Chairman] You are principal of the Boys' College at Nelson ?— Yes, for the last eight years and a half. I have been teaching in New Zealand for nearly twenty-two years. I was for thirteen years in the Southland Boys' and Girls' High School, during which time I was for ten years Rector. lam an M.A. of Oxford. I was at Rugby School and then at Oxford University. I have had no experience in the actual teaching of primary schools, although there is at Nelson College a preparatory department of which I have the oversight. The present syllabus for primary schools seems to me to be an excellent one. To make the work bear on the after-life of the children and impressing upon teachers the necessity of developing the reasoning-powers of the children is an excellent ideal. It seems to me that it is asking too much of the ordinary primary-school teacher, and I think it would be a very hard thing to carry out the requirements of the syllabus in full, as desired by the authorities. To mention particular subjects, I have often thought that history, although one of the compulsory subjects for the Sixth Standard, is in many cases, as far as I can judge, entirely neglected. I should very much like to see that subject more carefully considered by the Inspectors. It is of great benefit not only for the information it gives, but also from the point of view of patriotism. The
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syllabus makes the subject of geography a very interesting one, and I should say the children would find it more interesting than it was before. The children, however, so far as one can judge from the lower classes in the secondary schools, do not seem to have picked up much definite knowledge. I am speaking from the point of view of the secondary school. In many cases, indeed, they know little or nothing about political geography. In arithmetic we find a greater weakness than we used to. I know that is a subject to which great attention is paid, and I cannot account for the fact, but the boys do not seem to have their knowledge ready. There has been a distinct improvement in the power of the pupils to express themselves in words. Not only is more intelligence shown, but the pupil seems to have been better trained. Formal grammar seems to be good enough, but 1 fancy the teachers go too far in the direction of omitting it. Possibly it is a matter of time. lam not asking for much, but the little that is in the syllabus should be properly learned. Now, with regard to proficiency certificates and free places I would like to say this : The average age for passing the Sixth Standard is fourteen, I think. They come to us at fourteen, and as a rule do not stay much more than two years. In Nelson College, out of 240 boys, 180 have been there only one year and a half. In two years at"the College they can very well overtake the work that is necessary for the Intermediate Examination, which is much the same as for the Junior Civil Service, and thereby acquire the right of a senior free place. Many parents would like their children to go on to the Matriculation standard. Clever pupils used to do that in two years, but it meant too great a pressure. W r e might consider three years enough. If four years' work is now going to be required Ido not see where we are going to get the candidates from. Very few boys in the whole College have been there four years. It is in this connection particularly that I have a suggestion to put before the Commission. Pupils are allowed to go to the secondary school after passing the Fifth Standard. That implies, I suppose, that they are considered fit to start the secondary work Now, it seems to me that if a proficiency certificate were instituted in the Fifth Standard and some slight modifications were made in the syllabus, and precautions were taken that the examination for the proficiency certificate was strict, a free place might be granted on that Fifth Standard certificate. There would be these advantages : In the first place we should get the boys at the secondary school a year earlier. Then, if you once get them there, it is probable that a certain number who would have left the primary school after the Sixth Standard would continue an extra year at the high school, and therefore might lead to a slight lengthening of the school life. I think it would be very difficult to avoid some of the overlapping that takes place now in the work of the Sixth Standard and the lowest class of a secondary school. We find that we have to do a great deal of the work of the Sixth Standard over again. It would suit us just as well to do that for the first time if the boys have been well prepared up to the Fifth Standard. Those pupils who do not take advantage of the proficiency certificate in the Fifth Standard would probably, in the majority of cases, be leaving the primary schoo 1 after another year's work. If they came to the secondary school after passing the Sixth Standard they would be at no disadvantage so far as covering the groundwork is concerned, and they could go straight on as they do at present. I believe that proposal is in the nature of a novelty, but I have thought over it a great deal, and when you ask me for details I think I can give you a sufficient number of instances. Now that everybody can get a free place there does not seem to be the same need as formerly for scholarships, though the funds might be used for giving assistance to country children by defraying part of the expenses of boarding. At Nelson College we take boys from the Third Standard up to degree work for the University, though a boy is always recommended to go to the University itself for at least the last year of his course. The standards from 111 to VI are taught by masters in separate departments. The Sixth Form contains mostly boys who are working for University Scholarships, and the exempted University students do a portion of their work with the Sixth. Three courses are open to pupils entering the College. The first is the general course, covering all the subjects ordinarily taught—-English, Latin, a modern foreign language (usually French), mathematics, and science. The second course is called the commercial. Boys taking that are excused from Latin. The course consists of book-keeping, commercial arithmetic and letter-writing, and extra work in English and arithmetic as seems necessary. We do not teach shorthand or typewriting. The agricultural course was introduced last year, and about one-third of the school-time is given to subjects that may be said to be properly included in that course. The boys do not take any language other than English, but they do English, mathematics, and science with the rest of the school. 2. Mr. Wells.] It is not the same, as the rural course of the Department ?—No; we have not adopted their programme. There are at present two classes in agriculture—one of twelve boys and the other of eighteen or twenty —twenty is the full number, but one or two have left lately. We have the services of a qualified instructor, and there is plenty of ground of good quality near the College for the agricultural plots. The provision for science-teaching is rather restricted, and we are now putting up three new science-rooms. We hope, if we can obtain the services of the agricultural instructor for a longer period, to make full use of the laboratories for the required botany, physiology, and chemistry. 3. Do you know what the endowments of your College are ?—There is some land, but the area is very small, as is shown by the fact that we get from the Department the highest rate for free pupils. I do not know what the endowments bring in. 4. What number of free pupils do you admit ?—All who apply. Seventy per cent, of the total are now free pupils, junior or senior. 5. What fees do you charge to the others ?—Twelve guineas per annum, and eight guineas for boys under twelve, reduced for punctual payment to pounds. 6. Does one body control both the Boys' and the Girls' Colleges ?—Yes. 7. Do you take boarders ?—This year we have 111, out of a total of nearly 240 boys. 8. What are the fees for boarding ?—£42 10s., exclusive of tuition. 9. Is the boarding establishment run by the Governors or by the headmaster ?—By the Governors. They are responsible for all payments, and take all profits.
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10. Do you think it would be possible to arrive at some system of accrediting, by which the very best boys should be picked out from the primary schools ? —No. I do not know why another examination should not be necessary. Now the Inspector makes such an examination. 11. But the Inspector does not as a rule examine Standard V boys ?—I do not believe any change like that could be made without further modifications. It is very hard to judge without an examination of some sort. It would be a very hard thing for country teachers to resist the pressure when the classification remained in their hands. 12. What I am suggesting is that this power should be granted to the head teachers of thoroughly approved efficient schools ?—lt might be granted to them. My object is to assure that there shall be a certain level of efficiency in those to whom the free place is granted. If the recommendations were supervised in some way by some high authority, in the same way as officers of the Department come to our school, the plan might be satisfactory. 1.3. Do you not think the headmasters of the primary schools would be very jealous of the prerogative, and would see to it that no boys were recommended that were not thoroughly fit ?—I have no direct knowledge of the pressure that is put upon them. I know there is pressure, that is all. My own feeling would be that there should be some supervision by a higher authority. The Inspectors check our recommendations for senior free places —they are not granted merely on recommendation. 14. The object is to get hold of the very best boys at the earliest possible age ?—You could easily get them a year earlier than at present. 15. Mr. Davidson] There are only ten schools in the whole Nelson District with an average attendance over 120. If in those schools there were consultation between the Inspector, the head teacher, and it may be the parents, could not some system of accrediting be brought into operation so as to prevent unnecessary examinations ? —Certainly. 16. Do you not think that the want of definiteness in the geography of the boys who come to you from the primary schools may be due to the interpretation of the syllabus by the Inspectors ?—lt is quite possible. I have not had much experience of their interpretation. It seems to me that the syllabus provides all that is necessary. 17. Do you not think that if the Inspectors were under the control of some central authority that would lead to more uniform interpretation ?—lt would, of course. 18. Would you approve of placing the inspectorate of the Dominion under some central control ?—lt does not affect me practically in any way, but on the face of it I should say it would be an improvement. 19. Mr. Hogben] With regard to the suggestion that the boys should go to the secondary school after passing Standard V, is not that really the minimum qualification for entering a secondary school unless they are in a lower department ?—Our lower department does no secondary work whatever. 20. It would not imply because it was the minimum qualification that it was substantially the qualification for entering a secondary school ?—Yes, I take it that way. 21. With regard to the getting of free-place pupils after the Fifth Standard, would not the same end be gained from your point of view if they 7 passed Standard VI a year earlier ?—Yes, if there is the same latitude as seems to exist at present in the requirements of the proficiency certificate, we should gain by doing some of the work in the Sixth Standard. 22. Is it not desirable from your point of view that you should go over some of the same ground ? —The time spent at school is so limited that we should like them to start from where they come from the primary school, and go straight on. 23. Do you think there would be any difficulty about our boys getting at all events the substance of what is taught in Standard VI at an earlier age than they do ?—None at all. 24. If they did I presume you would prefer to have them if they passed through Standard VI rather than after they passed Standard V, if you could get them a year earlier ?—Yes. 25. Do you think the average boy, with the average school life in New Zealand, ought to attempt two foreign languages for his educational benefit, without reference to any examinations ?—1 do not think a boy of average ability would have any difficulty in beginning them, and making good progress. 26. Supposing- that the boy succeeded in getting through the secondary school in the average time of three years, do you think it would be advisable for him to have two languages ?—I should not force it on him. At our College he has either alternative. I should not make two languages compulsory. 27. But do you think it would be advisable for him to take two languages ?—1 should want to know what he proposed instead of the second language. 28. Do you not think he could use his time better in a general course of literature taken in English ? —In all schools we are obliged to consider what the boy is going to do in two or three years' time. 29. I am asking you to consider it from the point of view oi the boy's general education ?—No ; he should not have the second language. 30. What would you make the one language—a modern or an ancient one i —They do not learn much Latin in three years. I should prefer a modern language, if they were staying only three years. 31. Do you agree that to get the best advantage from a language it should be done up to the stage at which it could be used for reading, speaking, or writing, or all three ? —Yes. That gives the preference to French rather than Latin, but of course there are other advantages to be gained from the teaching of Latin. One can ensure more exactness in it than in teaching French. 32. Modern French prose ?—French prose is a matter of so many small idioms. In Latin you have substantial rules, easy to follow, but you have to mind every step. Still, Ido not think much time should be given to Latin when the boy is going to be put through in a year or two. In that case Ido not think he should study Latin at all. He would not advance far enough to use the language. 33. Do you think it would be an advantage if the University were to recognize the senior leaving certificate as an entrance to the University ?—I think any boy who has done satisfactory- secondaryschool work for four years should be able to pass the Matriculation Examination without fail.
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34. Would it not be an advantage to have his work entirely unembarrassed, so to speak, by having no examination other than the school examination ?—I think we find that any examination always tightens a boy up a little. He does not like it, but, as with other disciplinary measures, it is good, for him. 35. Is-the influence of the outside examinations on the freedom of the teacher healthy ? —We have not absolute freedom, but I think we have enough. I would like to have an outside examination somewhere in the course. 36. But based on an outside programme, and conducted by an outside examiner ?—Yes, especially if the authority for the programme is also the authority for the school, which it might be if the General Council proposal were adopted. 37. But at present it is the University Matriculation Examination ?—I have no particular fault to find with that examination. 38. Not with the science ?—The science as altered seems to us very difficult. lam speaking on the advice of our science master. He thinks it is rather too much. 39. Yet the new programme gives far more choice than the old ?—Yes, it is of wider range. 40. The Chairman] If the Education Boards were of an enlarged type — that is to say, provincial—and had general control of the primary, secondary, and technical education, the technical education and secondary education being also directly controlled by local authority, would you favour the institution of a National Council of Education ?—There would then be three authorities below the Minister. 41. The Minister would be at the head of the Council, and his principal executive officers would have their place on it, and there would be representatives of the Boards, the Inspectors, and the University itself ?—I should not be in favour of having anybody between the Council and the Governors of the College. I understand that under the proposal the Governors would be subordinate to the Education Board of the large district. I should not be in favour of that. William James Comrie examined, on oath. (No. 198.) 1. The Chairman] What is your position ?—I am a minister of the Presbyterian Church, resident in Wellington, and am general treasurer of the Church and secretary to the Property Trustees and to a number of committees. lam at present Chairman of the Terrace School Committee, of which I have been a member for four years. Previous to that time I was a member of various School Committees in Hawke's Bay, South Canterbury, Otago, and Auckland. I have also been a member of the Education Boards oi Hawke's Bay and South Canterbury. Altogether I have been connected with the administration of the Education Act for more than thirty years. 2. On what points do you wish to address the Commission ?—ln my judgment districts should be enlarged, and their division into wards abolished. One of the things to be avoided in connection with Education Boards is the parochial spirit, and that is fostered by the ward system. Members of the Boards are regarded as representing particular localities, and their particular aim is to secure the best they can for the schools in their own districts, rather than do the best for the schools as a whole. Further, I approve of the enlargement of the Education Boards, because under the present system of appointing teachers the teachers are to a very large extent selected by the Boards from their own staffs, and that, in the case of small Boards, to a very great extent limits the teachers' opportunities of promotion. School districts might also with advantage be made larger, by the grouping of districts having interests in common and easy intercommunication. By that I mean that all the schools in a city might be brought under one Committee with advantage. All the schools in a particular district in the country that are adjacent, having a common centre, might with advantage be under one Committee, though I am not prepared to stress that point so much as the previous one for the enlargement of the Boards. The grant for incidental expenses is insufficient. This applies to town schools, and still more to schools in country districts. At the Terrace School we have an income from the incidental grant of about £90 per annum. It costs us about £65 for cleaning alone, leaving the balance for stationery, repairs, and fuel. In practice we find that the amount is insufficient, and we have to supplement it from other sources. What applies to the city schools applies with far greater force to the country schools. lam not urging that the grant should necessarily be increased, but the school does at the present time have to find sojne portion of the revenue for carrying on the work. The proposal to do away with small country schools is an undesirable one. The conveyance of young children to school is not and cannot be made satisfactory. People who live in the more sparsely populated parts of the country, who are the pioneers, and who receive but little from the Consolidated Fund except what is expended on education, deserve special consideration. I fully indorse what the Hon. Mr. Anstey said about the value of the country schools as centres of the life of the district. The country schools are great boons to their districts. The conveyance of children from one district to another has never, so far as I know —and I have known it to be tried in some cases —worked satisfactorily. In the nature of things I cannot think that it can work satisfactorily when young children have to be conveyed. Children of from twelve to fourteen years of age may be sent some distance by train, or coach, or other means, but in the case of little children it is unsafe and undesirable. I am aware that the small schools are expensive, but I contend that the expense is justified by the results and by the circumstances of the people who need that help. The appointment of teachers should be in the hands of the Boards, or of the Boards in conjunction with the Education Department or a Council of Education. lam not in favour of Committees as now constituted having any material say in the appointment of teachers. I have seen the working of that system too often not to know that in the first place the Committee cannot possibly get the information that is necessary to enable it to form a correct judgment. The Board, through its Inspectors and through its reports, can get that information, and if the Board, in conjunction with the Department or with a Council of Education,
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had this matter in hand, I believe that they could do the work better than it is done at present. Better provision should be made for the transfer of teachers from one school to another and from one district to another. It too frequently happens that a capable young man or woman gets settled in a small country school and becomes practically a life fixture. Young teachers should be able to spend -a fe\v years in a country school with the feeling- that if they do good service they will have equal or better opportunities of rising to the higher positions than those who remain as assistants in the .larger schools. For the better working of the system the Board or some authority should not only have the selection of the teacher who is to fill a particular place, but should have the right to say to a teacher in one school, " You are to go to another school." A teacher, for example, is appointed to a school when the district is in its early stages, and that teacher is the best available at the time for that school, but the district grows rapidly, and the school runs up from twenty or thirty pupils to two hundred or three hundred, and the same teacher is in charge, and probably has not developed with the growth of the school. No one has power now to remove that teacher. In the interest of the school, and in the interests in the long-run of the teachers, there should be some authority to transfer the teacher —I do not say to disrate him without sufficient reason —but to transfer him from one school to another. Provision should be made so that teachers who take positions in country schools are not lost for the rest of their lives unless they have some friend to push their interests with the Board, or unless they are prepared to make some sacrifice in order to get into a fresh position. I could give illustrations of teachers who have been in country schools and have given up one-third of their salaries in order to take lower positions in schools from which they would have a chance of promotion. Teachers would be induced to take charge of country schools if they knew that they would not be lost sight of. No one should be appointed to the headmastership of a school of, say, two hundred or over who has not had experience either as sole teacher or as headmaster of a smaller school. I believe that is the practice of some Boards at the present time. I would like to make it the uniform practice. Ido not think that an assistant, however good he may be, gets the training and gains the qualifications for the control of a large school that he would if he were in charge of a smaller school beforehand. The syllabus should be further simplified. In arithmetic much more attention should be devoted to the elementary rules and to the simpler processes. Far too much has been made of so-called problems. The boy or girl who goes into an office well grounded will soon acquire the particular methods required in that office, and specialities will soon be forgotten. There are not many people who have been ten years in an office who can extract the cube root, and, they are not much the worse for it. So the problems that are too frequently on examination-papers are not tests so much of the knowledge of arithmetic as tests of the ability of the child to wriggle through and find the way out of a puzzle. In many cases I should call them puzzles rather than problems. Examinations should be lessened. The leaving of promotion in schools to the judgment of the headmaster has worked satisfactorily, and this principle should be carried further. 1 consider that it has been a distinct improvement to the school life to leave the promotion of the children to the headmaster, subject to the oversight of the Inspectors, and I believe that this system could with advantage be carried a great deal further —that regarding the free places the judgment of the headmaster and the Inspector as to the boy or girl likely to benefit .by a term at a secondary school is a much safer guide than the passing of an examination. There are a certain class of pupils who never pass a written examination with advantage. Some are slow in writing ; some are particularly nervous ; or the candidate may be out of sorts on the day of the examination and fail to do himself justice. The teacher, guided by the Inspector —those who know the work the children are capable of —are the best qualified to judge whether those children should go on to higher work or not. My last point is that the age-limit for free places should be abolished, always subject to the statement I have already made that the teachers and the Inspector should decide who is to go forward. Then there need not necessarily be an age-limit. Some children start late in their mental as well as their physical development. Some children have been handicapped by illness at some period of their lives, and they are, in respect of time, a little behind the others. It is a real hardship that these should be deprived of free places simply because they happen to be over the specified age. 3. We may take it that you approve of the system of accrediting right through ?—I would not say that there should be no examination at any stage, but speaking generally I do approve of the system of accrediting for promotion. 4. Mr. Wells] Do you not think'that in many cases schools have been built when they should not have been —when the children might have gone to other schools ?—There are some cases, but I would not say there are many. I would not say that no country schools should be closed. 5. You recognize that you could afford more efficient teaching in a school of sixty or seventy pupils than in three or four schools of fifteen or sixteen ?—Speaking generally, that is so. 6. Mr. Kirk] Assuming that the ward system for the election of education authorities were in operation m the Wellington Distrii t, would there be any danger of any particular locality being overrepresented, oi any locality being unoer-represented ?—There is more danger of under-representation than over-representation—that is, assuming that localities need representation as localities. 7. Do localities require representation ?—No. My judgment is that the Board should represent the whole district, not a section of the district. 8. How are you going to obtain that ? —Better by the old method of electing the Board from the whole district than by sending men from wards. 9. Applying that to Wellington, is there any danger of the ward system, if it were out of operation in theory, being actually in practice—of the Board representing one class, or one locality, or one particular interest to the exclusion of others ?—I do not think so. Ido not think it worked out so in the past, speaking generally. 10. Can you improve upon even the abolition of the ward system ?—I have said that the Education Boards should be enlarged, and, granting a larger area, I do not think you can do better than have open selection. Let the whole district elect the members.
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11. The Chairman] Would the provincial system of voting, with proportional representation, give you a better class of representatives than the ward system, restricted as it is to localities and representative of particular interests ?—I think it would, but I would not limit the Boards to provincial areas. 12. I do not mean that in the old sense the provinces should be restored, but that the areas should -be* so enlarged as practically to include the old provincial districts ?—I should much prefer to see the University districts made the basis. 13. Mr. Davidson] From your long and varied experience as a member of Education Boards and School Committees is it your deliberate opinion that our education should be less parochial and more of a national system ?—Yes. 14. Are there not many places in New Zealand where three or four schools within a reasonable distance of each other could be replaced by one central up-to-date school, which could be made the literaiy and social centre of the district ?—1 know of no case where the centralization of the schools would have that result. I admit that there are some cases where schools have been put in undesirable positions, and that possibly a school here and there might be closed, but I think that in a small centre the district is self-contained, and that if you take away the school you take something out of the residents' life which will not be made up to them by conveying their children to another centre in which they themselves are not directly interested. 15. Is not one of the great problems of every country how best to keep the rural population in the country districts ?—That is so. 16. And if the advantages of city life as far as possible can be brought to the country, would that not have a tendency to keep the younger population in the country ? —Yes; but I do not think you are going to bring the advantages nearer to them by taking the children from their own locality to another to attend school. 17. If it is claimed that in some parts of America where this consolidation has been tried that greater punctuality and regularity in attendance is secured, that the health and morals of the children are better, and that the efficiency of the education is very greatly increased, and that by establishing these up-to-date central schools you really bring the advantages of the towns into the country, would you be prepared to deny that statement ? —I am not prepared to deny that it applies to America, but I am still of opinion that it would not apply to New Zealand. 18. Not to any part of New Zealand ?—Well, to say absolutely that it would not apply to any part is to make a strong statement, but I am not prepared to depart from what I have already stated — that Ido not know of any case where it would be of benefit. Here and there you might be able to close up a single school. 19. The Chairman] And if you were told that a similar experiment tried in New South Wales has resulted in exactly the same way as Mr. Davidson has described to you, would that not influence your opinion at all ?—Of course, one is always open to evidence of the benefits of a plan that does not approve itself to one. I have an open mind. But even New South Wales is not New Zealand : the differences, climatic and otherwise, are very great. 20. Mr. Pirani] You said that School Committees Have now to find part of the cost of looking after the schools ?—I think that is frequently the case. 21. You mean, outside the grants made by the Boards ?—Yes. 22. Do you not think that if the school is one of the greatest boons in a country district—l mean in regard to social and other matters outside the school work —it is only fair that the residents should. be asked to contribute something towards the upkeep of this great boon ?—Yes ; and in making the statement that the grants for incidentals are not sufficient I was careful to say I did not stress that point. 23. But we have had witnesses who strongly represented we should keep the schools in the small districts, but they did not see their way to recommend that the local residents should contribute a portion of the expense of keeping them there ?—I should say, no more in proportion than the residents in the large centres do, and certainly I should say the cost is heavier in regard to the small schools than to the large ones. 24. Do you not know it is very much the other way : that the cost of administering a school in. town is always very much heavier in proportion than in a country district ? —I was not aware of that. 25. Do you not know that an Education Board now has full power under the present law to transfer teachers —that the only obstacle in the way is the Education Board itself ?—I was not aware an Education Board had full power to do that, and it certainly has not power to transfer from, one education district to another. 26. Are you not aware that the Education Boards have full power now to transfer a teacher within the education district from one school to another even without the School Committee's approval ?— No, lam not aware that the Board has power to transfer a teacher against his will. That is the point I make : that the Board should have power, in the interests of the schools and ultimately in the interests of the teachers, to say to a teacher, " You are to go from this school to that school." 27. Do you not know that the Board had that power, but at the request of the Executive of the New Zealand Educational Institute that power was taken away ?—Practically so. 28. Then do you not know that the only district that exercised that power at once dropped the compulsory transfers because of the power oi appeal given against their decision ?—Yes, I know that power of appeal, speaking generally, has hindered the Board making changes. 29. Do you think it is a wise thing, in the case of a transfer that the Board considers is a proper one to carry out, there should be the right to set up an expensive inquiry running into hundreds of pounds to decide whether the Board is right or not ?—lt is somewhat hard to say that there shall not be an appeal. Speaking generally, I should be inclined to make every appeal as inexpensive as possible.
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30. To carry the matter further : do you think that if a teacher had appealed and lost the appeal —that if the teacher's record and career had been proved to the Court of Appeal to be so bad that the Board was justified in the action it took —that the Committee to whom the teacher had been sent would suffer him ?—But I do not think it should be a case of the teacher's record being so bad in order to justify a transfer. 31. Well, inefficiency ?—Not necessarily inefficiency ; it might be the need for greater efficiency. There might be a number of reasons ; but as it is now a transfer amounts to saying that a teacher is incompetent. I think there should be greater power to transfer in the teaching service, just as there is in the Railway service or Postal service. The transfer of a Stationmaster or Postmaster from one office to another does not necessarily mean he is incompetent. 32. But does it not follow that you may have to reduce him in transferring : a teacher may be inefficient in a large school and efficient in a small one ?—That may be so. You would have to be prepared to prove inefficiency before you reduced a teacher. 33. Then if you did prove inefficiency do you think that any Committee, whether in charge of a large school or a small school, would suffer that teacher gladly ?—You might prove him inefficient to conduct a school of three hundred or four hundred, and yet he might be well able to conduct a school of sixty or seventy children. 34. Do you think any Committee would believe that ?—I would not consult the Committee. 35. Do you think the Committee would suffer him gladly, or do you not think they would make his life so unpleasant that he would be glad to move on ?—They do that now. 36. Do you not think it is possible the Committee would make the life of the teacher at the school so unpleasant that he would leave the profession ?—Yes, possibly, but on the whole unlikely. 37. If you were a member of an Education Board would you favour a compulsory transfer if you knew it was going to be the subject of an appeal ? —One would have to know the conditions of the particular case. If the rule for transfers were general, then I should be prepared to say, " Yes, the transfer must be carried out," unless there were some pretty strong reasons for believing that the appeal would be upheld. 38. You must have had some case-in your mind when you made the suggestion ?—Of transfers, yes. I can readily think of cases where a teacher might be transferred perhaps unwillingly without an appeal following, or without any likelihood of an appeal being sustained if it did follow. 39. But do you know of cases where you think a transfer is necessary ?—I may say that in the last six or seven years I have lived in Wellington, and I know of no case in our own. school where a transfer is necessary, but I have known of cases. 40. Do you think that in such cases if the teachers had appealed against the transfer that a Court constituted as the teachers' Court of appeal is would have upheld the transfer ?—Probably, yes. 41. On what grounds would, the transfer have been made so that it could have been upheld ?— On the ground that the teacher, being a low-certificated teacher and without much experience, was not fit for a school that had grown quickly. 42. Is there any law under which a Board can do that ?—Not at present. 43. Is there any law or custom to show that because a teacher has a low certificate that he is inefficient ? —The Inspector's report sometimes indicates that. 44. Is it not within your experience that many low-certificated teachers are amongst the most efficient ?—Quite so. 45. If you were on a Court of appeal is it not likely the first thing you would say is that a certificate is no proof of inefficiency ?—Not the certificate alone. 46. So your ground for the transfer of the teacher would fail ?—Yes; but there are such things as Inspectors' reports over a series of years to the effect that the school is in a weak condition, and such things as local knowledge and evidence. 47. If you were on the Committee to which this teacher is to be transferred and you found reports over a series of years proving the teacher to be inefficient, do you say you would stand that teacher coming to your school ?—They have to do it now. 48. The Chairman] You are aware of the provision in the Licensing Act which say . that the Licensing Committee when refusing a license heed only give the general reason that it is in the interests of the district: do you think that in the teaching service the Board should have a similar right to say that in the interests of education a teacher should be transferred ?—Without admitting that you have stated a correct parallel, I would say Yes. 49. Mr. Pirani] Do you believe that the clause in the Act giving the right to appeal against transfer should be repealed ? —Not necessarily so ; it might require a little modification. 50. The Chairman.] Would it not be safer to repeal it under the circumstances and avoid this litigation and irritation ?—ln my judgment, larger Education Boards acting in accordance with the advice of the Department would not be so subject to appeals as the Boards are at present. 51. Mr. Davidson] Do you know of any branch of the Public Service where a member of that service can be degraded in position and salary without any right of appeal ?—I do not know of any. 52. Do you think the teaching branch at the present time is the most attractive branch of the Public Service ?—No. 53. Would it not make it still less attractive if a Board might, at the whim of any local body, degrade a teacher in position and salary 7 without the right of appeal ?—Yes, if you put the power into the hands of the present small Boards, but if you enlaiye these Boards and their powers and responsibilities I think you would do away with that difficulty to some extent. But I would not do away with the right of appeal. 54. Mr. Pirani] Do you know any Department in the Public Service except teachers where there is the right of appeal against transfer ?—Not to my knowledge, but I have not sufficient knowledge, to say.
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55. The Chairman] In y 7 our statement you say it is desirable to transfer teachers for the cogent reasons you set forth : is it not desirable also that Inspectors should be transferred from district to district to prevent them getting into a groove by reason of long residence in one centre ? — Yes. 56. Mr, Davidson] Would you approve of the right of appeal to this extent: that a teacher should be allowed to appeal against a transfer that meant degradation in position and salary \ —Yes. Walter Thomas Mills examined on oath. (No. 199.) 1. The Chairman] You arc a citizen of the United States resident for the time being in New Zealand ? —Yes. I may say I have been engaged in educational work, and I have probably spoken to the students and faculties of a, larger proportion of all the schools and colleges in America than almost any one else there. I have spoken to 340 American colleges on matters of importance. I have been very much interested in the educational question. I was a teacher for some time in the schools, and I have had private classes of my own almost constantly for a number of years, and I was for seven years engaged in an educational work which attempted to combine self-supporting industry with school work. 2. Having regard to your extensive experience, would you favour us with your ideas on any matters referred to in the order of reference ?—Yes. As a general statement, the State must depend upon its schools for the following things : for the productive power of its citizens, for good citizenship, for the defence of the nation, and for motherhood. In the matter of productive power the test of the school is not in the number of persons who can pass examinations, not in what the student shall be able to remember and repeat, but in his power to render service. In the matter of good citizenship the school must provide for bodily strength, the capacity to exercise effective initiative in the duties of life, and a knowledge of organization. These are essential to good citizenship. In the matter of defence the school must include whatever military training may be necessary, and it must carry there again the capacity for self-protection and self-control, and to be an effective factor in a large organization. In the matter of motherhood is involved the whole question of heredity and the making of the beginning in life endowed with sufficient physical capacity, and, besides, a knowledge of home-keeping, first aid, and nursing, as well as experience in judging of the qualities of household purchases and ability to organize and manage the work of the home, and especially to be the playmate and instructor of her own children. 3. Would you not add a knowledge of the rearing of children ?—I thought I covered that ;at any rate I intended to. So far these are all matters of public concern. Now, the individual must depend upon the schools for his general culture, covering such matters as a knowledge of language, art, and history; but the individual must further depend upon the school for his special scientific knowledge and training that will relate him effectively to the things he must deal with in life. He must depend upon the school for the source of his efficiency as a man, as a producer, as a citizen engaged either in commerce or the professions. To meet these demands the school must have certain necessary courses of study or training, and adequate equipment and scientific management. As to the courses of study or training, the matter of physical training is of fundamental importance. The school should interest itself directly with the question of motherhood, relating itself immediately to the new-born child. The care the child receives before it comes to school will determine so largely what its body will be when it arrives that there is a large scope for the educational authorities in the matter of home care of very young children. The physical development of the child again means proper food, proper clothing, outdoor life, and plenty of exercise. As to food, I think the school should provide at least one meal each day, scientifically prepared and served at the school. There are a number of reasons for that. For instance, in a number of our American schools the Department of Domestic Economy adopted a scheme of having the meals that had been prepared in the class work served to the children who had. prepared them. Then other members of the family not immediately represented in the class asked for an opportunity to come in. The result was that it has grown so that in a number of instances —I will speak particularly of the central high school in Seattle under the direction of Mr. Armstrong —the noonday meal became so popular that, fixing the arrangement that the average cost should be provided by those who participated in the meal, it very speedily developed to the point where practically all the students took their noonday meal at school. The result has been that it has been found a matter of great economy to the family, that the children have a warm noonday meal scientifically prepared, and that the children afterwards carried home with them a knowledge of what was a higher standard of food, better prepared and better served than they possessed before, and so became a sort of missionary for better provisioning at home. But mainly that noonday meal was of importance because it provided at least one meal in the day directly in line with the physical needs of the children. I visited the schools in a number of British cities where meals were being served, but the one that interested me most of all was one that I shall mention in connection with the outdoor service—the outdoor school in Bradford. That has been provided for children who have been found physically unfit. The average attendance of children sent to this school because of physical unfitness was higher than in any other school in the city. The work was done out-of-doors, the study was out-of-doors, the play was out-of-doors, the recitations were out-of-doors, and an hour each day 7 after the noonday meal the children slept in the grounds in a little camp arrangement which they carried with them. 4. You know that a similar kind of work is carried on extensively in London under the auspices of the Mrs. Humphrey Ward system ?—Yes. The open-air school carries with it food and clothing, and gives as much attention to the clothing as to the food. The children are not permitted to dress in a way so that their dress can in any way interfere with the action of the body, and provision is made by which their clothes are dried if wet —in fact, the ordinary physical care of the children is made a science. These institutions exist not only in London but in the United States. In the City of
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Chicago some of our central schools have arranged to take the windows practically entirely out and to put out the fires, and have carried on the work of the school without it being warmed or protected from the free movement of the air, with the result that children are begging for an opportunity to join the schools so conducted. We have also the splendid result of its actual experience. In other words, inside is not a good place for any one, but of all persons it has a bad effect on children. Physical training ought to include exercises, and the exercises ought to be of such a nature that they will have some motive or purpose in the things that they are doing. Simply lifting up a bell and putting it down again is utterly disconnected from any occasion for action. The Danish schools have gone a long way in organizing their manual training. The trades schools have made a careful study of the acts involved in productive service, with a view to using these acts for the purpose of physical training for a double purpose : that the boy who learns to do these things in a way that develops his body while in school if he works in the same trade afterwards continues to do all his life acts in connection with the industry in such a way that they reinforce and develop his body instead of breaking his equilibrium. But particularly the matter of exercise should be outdoor, and should have some motive as far as possible besides the mere matter of exercise. It should be doing things for the sake of getting things done and with some sufficient motive. In the matter of industrial training, personally I think training ought to commence with the child, and it ought to commence with its play : it ought to teach through the process of providing occupations within the reach of the child. I mean that some time before it is thought to give the child books it should be given tools and the materials for actually producing things, and the processes of learning which come later on should be related to the processes of work, going from the kindergarten to the manual-training class and on its way to the trade school. And. T think that the trade school ought to be extended to include adults, and that attendance at a trade school ought to be made compulsory in the higher grades of work on all the young men and women in the country. The thing that has been done in our own State of Wisconsin, and. has been undertaken in a number of States elsewhere, seems to me to be a very wise thing. For instance, in the City of Chicago the trades-unions and school authorities, after long discussion and investigation, arrived at an arrangement by which all the apprentices in all the trades —this refers particularly to the building trades —are required under the terms of the apprenticeship now to spend a certain portion of each week in the technical schools, so that the technical school reaches the man who is already working as an employee, thus making more effective the apprenticeship. In fact, the occupation, and the school supplement each other, moving jointly. In my own State of Wisconsin the State University at Madison is really the chief factor in the industrial life of the State. Some years ago the University persuaded a few manufacturers to permit instructors from the industrial departments in the University to go into the factories and use the factory plants as a school equipment. The employers paid the wages just the same as before, and gave their complete equipment as a school equipment for the time being, with the result that all the trades-unions and all the employers who have tried the system, and the school authorities, have become enthusiastic over the result. It has largely increased the efficiency of the men who are actually doing the work. There was a good deal of difficulty in America m the matter of introducing trade-school instruction, because the trades-unions had the impression that it meant training men who were not employed to take the places of those who were already employed. But any difficulty of that sort has been entirely removed by providing training for those already employed, and at the places where they are employed, and it is now the main factor in increasingindustrial efficiency. It is agreed by every one that some sort of defence is necessary, and that some sort of training will be necessary to provide for effective defence. If it is justifiable to require training in order to defend the country in time of war, there is a much stronger argument in favour of the training of men in order to be efficient factors in serving the country in time of peace. It is not onlypossible to provide this in the course of study but in fhe equipment. What, lam advising here with regard to the schools can be undertaken not only without materially increasing the expenditure on education, but it can be undertaken in such a way as to make all the higher-grade schools institutions of productive industry. That has been the experience of some of our schools where they have engaged in productive work directly 7 in connection with the public schools themselves. Ido not think I need to dwell at all on the matter of general culture —languages, history, and the arts —they have their place in all schemes of education. Here, however, is something that is not ordinarily undertaken. Lessons in politics and economics are<-provided for, but my suggestion is that they should be provided for on a much larger scale. The whole scheme of a State school and the expenditure in connection with it is justified because of its relations to good citizenship, but in the course of study itself the field of politics is not dealt with at all in most schools. The matter of economics is dealt with only in the advanced schools, and in both instances the study is very largely a matter of theory instead of dealing with the actual problems that the people are themselves at the time engaged in. We have two States in America that publish in connection with each election pamphlets (which are delivered at the public expense to every voter within the States) discussing both the pros and cons of the problems that are supposed to be involved at the time. Personally, I think there ought to be regular provision for studying all the year round politics, economics, and questions of municipal and national administration, with the materials for that study furnished directly to and made available for all the people. I believe a scheme of correspondence could be carried on in connection with it that would enable any citizen anywhere, on sending in an inquiry, to secure exact information and expert opinion with regard to any topic of importance to him. I think that ought all to belong to the work of education. Reference was made by a witness a few moments ago to the school as a social centre. Mr. Froebel's discovery in connection with education was that a child would be taught most easily if the lessons were given in the form of plays, but that is as true of grown people as it is of children. It would seem to me that the school ought to provide, not only in the country districts, but in the cities as well, the general social resort for the community. Along with the library there ought to be provision for games, a
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general meeting-place for people, a lounging-room—in fact, the ordinary conveniences that are essential to one's existence in the community, and particularly that one needs to avail oneself of when any distance away from home. All these should be provided in connection with centrally located educational institutions. They should be made the centres of the social life not only of the boys and girls while in the school, but the meeting-ground for them after they are graduated from the schools, ■after they are engaged in their regular occupations. Instead of permitting the common social resort to be made a matter of private enterprise and frequently of demoralizing surroundings, I hold that the best place for the pictures-show, for the gaming-table, for the evening resort, is the school—that these things should be organized in connection with the schools and made educational not only for the entertainment of the children during the hours of the school sessions, but for the entertainment of their parents and older brothers and sisters during the evenings. An experiment of this sort has been undertaken at Gary, in the State of Indiana, in the United States. It is a steel town. The town was completely planned before its building was undertaken, and there was original provision made for 12 acres of ground for each State school, and in these institutions, among the other activities undertaken, is the matter of entertainment; and the result has been that the desire to be entertained, the element of sport, the wish to go to the show, have all been harnessed to and made an important factor in the educational life of the community. With regard to the equipment of the schools, it is a misfortune in connection with most of the schools that I have noticed in New Zealand —and it is true everywhere else —that they have no adequate playgrounds. Not only the playground, but the equipment should provide tools and the opportunity to have plants and flowers and animals, particularly animals ; and that opportunity should bo within the reach of all the children. In the equipment of the school it would seem to me entirely preferable that all the children should be taken to the country for their ordinary school-work. The tramways in the morning hours come to town crowded and go to the country empty, and in the evening they are crowded going to the country and empty coming to the town ; and it would cost very little to load them with children to go to the country in the morning and to come back in the evening. Then there should be provided ample space for gardens, fields, and animals, and all the things necessary for rational outdoor childhood activities. In the higher courses of study I think that technical training, at least for two years, should be made compulsory upon all the young men and young women of the country ; and if their labour was simply organized and equipped for the purpose of working, say, four hours a day and studying four hours a day, my own experience of work of that sort has demonstrated that they will make just as rapid progress in their studies as though they have no employment apart from the school at all. New Zealand is very fortunately situated with a view to undertaking a system of that sort. Most of her products are products from the soil, and the market price is determined in the markets of the world. To increase the butter output enormously would not at f>ll affect the selling-price —would cause no injury or loss to any one. An educational institution with no more than a million at the back of it could be very rapidly developed, and instead of providing money for scholarships where the student goes and buys his living, drop that and give him an opportunity for two years' study (and see to it that he takes it), where he will be earning his living while he continues his studies. It would not only give an enormous educational institution on a self-supporting basis, but if undertaken in New Zealand it would immediately attract an enormous reinforcement of the highest type of educators and the best class of immigrants from every portion of the world, in order to take advantage of the opportunity of an institution that onco equipped would practically cost the country nothing. I want now to say something about textbooks. One of the misfortunes of most people's lives is that they have learnt that things that are printed in some way or another have special authority over anything that is said. The easiest way to get that superstition out of a child's or man's mind as to the conclusive authority of what he reads is to let him have some experience in setting up something to be read. lam very sure that among the things that ought to be in every school is a small printing-plant ; that the text-book can well be made up from day to day as a part of the school-work ; that work which is particularly well done should be ordered to be printed, and made the basis of further study when it has been printed. I think that the teachers ought to be offered a special reward for devising the best methods of teaching the different subjects, and through the national periodical publications make these matters immediately available for all the schools —put them immediately to the test. I think that most of the work involved in the text-books can be furnished in periodical publications created month by month as the work of the school goes on. Offer premiums amongst the teachers for contributions, give promotion for effective service, give the children a part in the making-up of their small exercises within the school, and then we will have gone a long way towards vastly improving the text-books and making the process by which the text-books are produced a part of the educational Work itself. In this connection I wish to speak about a matter I am very much interested in, and that is the length of time required to learn to read and spell. A good many years ago Dr. Harris, who was for a long time Chief Director of Education in the United States, when Superintendent of Schools in St. Louis, took the alphabet as it stands and simply took the different vowel and consonant value of the letters and arranged them so that whenever a sound was heard the child could reproduce the form that it would stand for, or whenever a form was shown it stood for one sound and that sound only. He did not do it by attempting to manufacture a new alphabet. For instance, he made a slight variation of the letter "a" of such a nature that the letter would be easily recognized, but with a different modification for each vowel sound. He did the same with all the other letters, and had text-books printed with the alphabet so constructed for the three lower grades in the schools, with the result that children who had only been five months in school learnt to read and spell better by this arrangement than they had before been able to do in five years' time. When they reached the fourth grade and the ordinary alphabet, everything having been scientific in its arrangement up to that point, they were only a little time in learning the exceptions, so there was an enormous economy of the patience, time, and energy, both of the teacher
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and the child, in the matter of learning to read and spell the English language, which time was available for additional hours at play and for other work. In the matter of management I have tried to show that the school is of fundamental importance to the real life of the State. The management ought to be so conducted that each of these great industrial or social interests in the community will be directly related to the management of the schools. Personally it would seem to me —I am not giving this as a conclusion upon this matter, but as a suggestion —that a National Board or National Cofincil ought to control the schools of the whole country ; that the Minister of Education ought to be nominated by that Board or Council and maintain his place in the Government at the will of the Council; and that the Council ought JtO iSi be A so i constructed that it would directly represent in its administration of the schools such great group interests in the community as the trades-unions, professional and commercial organizations, agricultural and pastoral organizations, women's organizations, and any other groups of that kind; and that these groups should be so organized that each one will be able to elect its own representative on that Council. No one group would be able to affect the representation of the others, but all together would administer the schools, and the representatives of these groups, directly relating the life of the community with the school training for the service of the community, would be the final school authority in the country. There is just one thing I would like to say in conclusion. I was one of the first amongst Americans to advocate the consolidation of country schools. That system is now being and Ido not know of any instance where it has been adopted at all where it has not been proved very satisfactory. The system is extending very rapidly in our country. In the single State of Illinois during this season 2,200 country schools have been consolidated into something less than two hundred schools, and the point is that they are able to get a complete manual training equipment, and they have become in every instance the social centre —the picnics, the lecturers, the business meetings, the church services are held there —in fact, the whole social life of the community gathers round these schools. 5. Do you allow boys and girls to mix there ? —Yes. 6. A doctor has told us of the awful effects of mixing boys and girls over ten years of age ?—They ought not to be born in the same family, then.
Saturday, 13th July, 1912. Frederick Truby King examined on oath. (No. 200.) 1. The Chairman.} You are Medical Superintendent of the Seacliff Mental Hospital?— Yes, and have been so for twenty-four years past. 2. What are your professional qualifications?—M.B., CM., B.Sc. of Public Health, and a member of the Pyschological Association. 3. The Commission will be glad to hear what you have to say touching the matters referred to in our Commission ? I wish first to draw attention to the grave effects which neglect of rational hygiene —the laws and needs of healthy habit and healthy living, overstudy, competitive examinations, and so-called competitions—are having on the rising generation, especially on girls. I gave an address on this subject in Wellington some eighteen months ago at a large meeting of the Medical Association. What I then advanced met with the strongest indorsement, and I was pressed by my medical confreres to bring the matter before the annual meeting of the British Medical Association, which was to be held in Auckland some months later, as it was felt that the outlook and the existing conditions of education for girls needed to be radically changed in certain directions. At the annual general meeting in Auckland, held in March, sixteen months ago, I gave an address on " The Factors bearing on Motherhood under the Conditions of Modern Civilization as affecting the Race." Dr. Savage, the president, and a number of other doctors spoke in the same direction, saying how frequently they were called on in practice to deal with cases of nervous breakdown and functional irregularities of organs associated with more or less developmental arrest, brought on by lack of rational hygiene and injudicious and unnecessary educational stress —that is to say, arrest of proper nutrition, growth, and development, involving not only the whole organism more or less, but falling especially on those parts of the growinggirl which it is the scheme of creation-to develop and expand at the very period of life when the stress of our educational system is making itself most felt. In such cases Dr. Savage said he was in the habit of advising that the pupil should be taken away from school for a whole year; indeed, he said he was inclined to think that were it feasible it would be a good thing for all girls if they could be relieved from the stress of ordinan 7 education as now conducted at this critical expanding and rapidly-growing period of life. At the close of a long discussion the following resolution was passed unanimously : " That the Hon. Dr. Collins, Dr. Gibbs, and Dr. King be appointed a committee to wait on the Minister of Education and represent the opinion of this conference that it is in the highest interests of the whole community that the State should inculcate and bring about as far as feasible an ideal of education for girls which, to quote the words of Professor Stanley Hall, shall ' invert the present maxim that girls should be primarily trained to independence and self-support, and that matrimony and motherhood if it come will take care of itself.' This conference feels bound to deprecate any system of education which, under the stress of excessive mental effort, excessive competition, excessive straining after so-called accomplishments, &c, pays insufficient attention to ensuring normal, orderly, well-balanced development and complete fitness for maternity and the practical care of a home. The conference is satisfied that, broadly speaking, even where marriage does not take place, the education which gives a, girl the best all-round equipment in body,.mind, morals, and inclination for home life and potential motherhood, also gives her the soundest and surest foundation for
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future health and happiness, and for a sustained power of earning an independent living if such should prove to be her lot." The views of the medical profession as indicated wem duly laid before the Minister of Public Health. The only thing bearing further on this matter that has transpired since was a meeting which took place early this week in which I conferred with the committee-of the Medical Association in Wellington, when there was a unanimous confirmation -of the conclusions arrived at previously, and certain further practical suggestions were made which I was asked to represent before the Commission. I may explain that it is not my intention to deal so much with the details of ordinary education as with its broader and more essential aspects, bearing on the development and future health and fitness of the individual, physical, mental, and moral. 1 am not specially concerned with immediate school results. In other words 1 wish to deal with education as it appeals to the physician, and I make no apology for commencing with a few simple experiments suitable for demonstrating to a child and proving that we live at the bottom of an ocean which is just as material and substantial as the ocean in which fish live, only that the aerial fluid happens to be thinner. Ninety per cent, of people do not believe that air is anything, or, at any rate, anything of importance. I can come to no other conclusion from the fact that they abhor open windows, .especially open bedroom windows. Education takes no account of air as a food; indeed, I might almost say that the higher our education the less seems to be the recognition of the need for a constant and abundant supply of pure air—the first of all essentials for health. Education talks glibly about carbonic-acid gas and 15 lb. pressure on the square inch, but it does not bring home to the child that it can live for forty days without food, but only four minutes without air. A child can be intensely interested in such matters if they are properly presented. The books generally used in our schools for teaching physiology are utterly unfit for the purpose —infinitely dry and filled with a mass of uninteresting and unimportant details. The best book on health from which to teach a child is, in my opinion, Colman's " Health Primer." The writer of this little book insists that young children take more interest in learning about their bodily needs than older children, and in applying the knowledge gained. This has been well illustrated in my experience in the case of a little girl of eight who has been told the simple why and wherefore in regard to pure air, and has never slept without the windows being as wide open as they would go. The child watched with fascination an adult who was holding his breath and timing himself. More than a minute passed. The child gazed from the man to the watch with growing interest and anxiety, and then she said, " Oh, dad, why if you'd done it for another two minutes you'd have been dead." On another occasion, when sleeping away from home, a screen was placed between her and the open window, and she said the next morning, " I don't think much of the air here. The fresh air comes in at the window, bumps up against the screen, and then goes out again." This only confirms what a well-known physician said of his own children : " They had formed hygienic liabits —I had almost said instincts —by the time they were three years old, and would of their own accord cross the room and open a window as a matter of course if they found themselves in a stuffy room, just as an adult would shun a foul and noisome smell." The same thing applied to such transcendently important habits, for both boys and girls, as the early morning cold bath and active exercise before breakfast—the rule of every great public school in England. An English public-school boy would as soon think of going to breakfast without washing his face and brushing his teeth as he would of going without the morning tub. Is anything of this kind true of our own education system? Does it tend to encourage a boy to discipline or habits of this kindhabits which are most essential for making him robust and manly, for ensuring self-control, and for safeguarding him from the worst risks of adolescence? Is anything of the kind enjoined on girls? We know perfectly well that it is not —indeed, less attention is paid to their physique than to that of boys, though bodily fitness is even more essential for their future health and happiness and for the sake of the race than in the case of boys. I wish now to read the following extinct from the child's primer:—"The Four Schoolmates: (1.) Four children walked to school along the same street. Not one of them was really clean, and this is the reason why. The first pupil lived a long way off in the suburbs, and came along a muddy road. His shoes and his clothes were spattered with mud. The second pupil did not like to brush his hair, to clean his fingernails, or to take a bath. Sometimes he did not take a bath even on Saturday night if his mother did not remind him. So his skin was not clean. (2.) The third pupil was so fond of eating that he might be called a glutton. He , was always ready to eat between meals, and if there was anything especially good on the table he almost stuffed himself. He made his stomach weak, and often when he ate a great deal the food would not be promptly digested. His teetli were not kept clean, and some of them decayed. Therefore the third pupil was not clean, because his digestive organs were not clean. (3.) The fourth pupil lived in a home of very ignorant people. Her parents did not know what pure air is for. If the weather was the least cold they would shut every window tight and sleep all night in rooms thus closed. They kept the house closed during the day, and breathed each other's breath ov.er and over again. This pupil was fourteen years old, and she had a foolish idea of trying to look like a young lady. So she had begun to wear tight bands and belts around her waist, and she could not draw a deep breath even when she was out of doors in the pure air. So her blood became impure, and pimples came out on her face. Because of impure blood she often had bad colds, which inflamed her nose and caused catarrh. This made her breath almost as bad as the breath of the third child, which was bad enough. (4.) There were many children in school with clean clothes and nails, and hair, with clean skins, clean stomachs, and clean blood. But there remains the puzzling question : Which one of the four schoolmates mentioned was tne cleanest of all? Which one was the least clean of all, the one with unclean clothes, or skin, or stomach, or blood? What is your opinion? " That is just the question I would liEe to ask of some thirty or forty girls who are mostly receiving their higher education in one of our University Colleges, and of whom many sleep
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in tightly-sealed bedrooms without a chink of window opening. Stranger still, with few exceptions the windows and doors remain closed all day long, and things unchanged, though 1 myself pointed out some years ago that, apart from the windows, the building is unprovided with the special openings for ventilation which every modern sanitary house should have. What is the use of pretending to teach physiology and failing to provide the primary essentials, even in a se-called model hostel, and not seeing that the students at least avail themselves fully of the windows. The whole thing is bewildering, but it is only on a par with what we find in connection with our schools, where it is no uncommon thing to see sixty or eighty infants crowded into a room which provides sufficient space for only about half the number. I have myself received many inquiries and protests from teachers in our primary schools with regard to this and other wrongs inflicted on the children, and for the most part there is only one answer to be given— the position is indefensible. Here is a sample of a specific question which needs no answer :" Do you think it is nerve-destroying for children from five to eight years of age to be examined about seven times a year —three times by the headmaster, three by the infant-mistress (who naturally wants to see progress), and once by the Board's Inspector?" Parents have told me that their children get excited and talk lessons in their sleep when these examinations are coining. Such an excess of examining may be exceptional in our infant schools, but we know what School Inspectors and others have to say on this matter in connection with older children. Another question I was asked was as follows: "Do you think that infants from five to eight years of age should have at most four hours of mental work and at least one hour of games in the open air?" The answer to this may be inferred from the result of German investigations, which show conclusively that in any case ordinary school life proves very prejudicial to the body growth and development of little children. It is found that in the first year at school grow poorly, and that the growth of girls is almost arrested. German children are sent to school at six years of age if strong, but if found weak and delicate on medical examination they are kept back for a year. The significant fact is that the delicate sor 10 per cent, who are kept away from school from six to seven increase 20 per cent, more in weight and over 40 per cent, more in height in that year than the strong children who attend school. At a meeting of the committee of the Medical Association, held in Wellington during the week, it was decided to recommend that parents should be discouraged from sending children to ordinary schooling before seven years of age, and that children should not be admitted before six years; that only morning school should be attended up to nine years of age —say, . three hours, with clearing out for play every threequarters of an hour. This will allow ten minutes for a scamper or play, and five minutes for getting out and in. It i-; insisted on that such provisions are essential in any case, but doubly necessary in view of the fact of our schools being for the most part indifferently constructed, badly furnished, badly ventilated, and overcrowded. Further, it has been clearly established that a child's attention cannot in any case be properly sustained for more than about forty-five minutes. In regard to schools for infants, the handing-over of fifty or sixty pupils to the care of a pupil-teacher is to be strongly deprecated. Infants need the best of teachers, specially selected on account of aptitude both in regard to work and play, and on account of their being genuinely fond of little children. Speaking on physiological questions in relation to the educational period of life, I wish to say that, looking the facts squarely in the face, there is no reason to doubt that the great majority of common diseases afflicting mankind to-day can be almost eradicated by the spread of enlightenment and the establishment of healthy habits in our nurseries and schools. Bγ this means we could almost banish dental caries, colds, coughs, infantile diarrhoea, indigestion, constipation, and consumption, and the train of ills that follow in tneir wake, "reducing public expenditure on invalids and incompetents to a mere fraction of the present enormous and growing outlay. Referring to the defective knowledge and lack of interest displayed in our schools in physiology, and the general indifference shown as to the laws of healthy living, I think that the fault lies not with the students themselves —they are merely the victims —the fault lies with the education system, which allows young people to grow up without the most rudimentary ideas as to the essentials for health, and without troubling itself to find out whether their habits are faulty or otherwise. What is laid down and advised in regard to the teaching of physiology in our schools contains its own condemnation. What is the use of trying to interest boys and girls in a subject of this kind by means of dull, dry books, overloaded with useless names and details, and with only half an hour a week devoted to it. As Professor Mi all says, after thirty years devoted to teaching, " T would beg the schoolmaster who finds himself unable to cope witli a crowded time-table to simplify the business at all hazards. Take up only so many subjects that each may come round pretty nearly every day. Limit the lessons to fifty minutes (less in junior forms), and have ten minutes out of every hour for a scamper out of doors. Let the home-work sink to a subsidiary and in great part voluntary occupation for the older and more ambitious boys. Above all, trust to enlightened and animated teaching." The author of the simple little primer T have previously referred to confirms this, saying that the laws and needs of healthy living should be taught in a sensible and attractive way every day until the pupil gains a real knowledge and interest in what is needed for his own fitness, happiness, and success in life. I was simply amazed when I came to read an " Outline of a Scheme for Teaching Hygiene," recently printed by our Education Department for the guidance of teachers. In twenty-two closely printed pages of diffuse platitudes this pamphlet managed to miss the real essentials which should be impressed on all boys and girls, and which are duly emphasized in the child's primer. How can it be expected that the teacher, struggling to conscientiously impart second-hand the pith of suggestions nebulously conveyed to himself, will be able to sheet home what is needed for health and avoid at the same time disgustinc , the pupils with what is unnecessary, tedious, and wearisome? What our teachers long for in this and in other directions, and what our education system does not give them, is a plain definition of a limited
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scope of essentials which must be taught, and taught thoroughly; and, further, a clear statement as to what is the simplest and best book on the particular subject. The unfortunate teacher becomes lost in an infinite maze of fleeting educational books, pamphlets, and school journals, mostly prepared by hack writers, instead of being directed to the few best books in the English language, written by the clearest thinkers and expositors—books which would suffice for all the educational purposes of our primary schools, and which would not need to be constantly replaced to keep pace with the kaleidoscopic changes of educational fashion. In order to have a will, mind, and soul in this world we must first have a living body and proper organs. Further, we must have a sufficiency of all-round exercise; but the schools narrowly centre attention on mere voluntary exercise (biceps and what riot) in the utterly inadequate time that is devoted to the care of the body. People fail to grasp the fact that perhaps nine-tenths of the work, even of the voluntary muscles, is done without the intervention or direction of the will, the muscles being kept in tone and working all day through stimuli of heat, cold, touch, &c, coming through sensory organs from the environment, and that the more suitable and reasonably varied and invigorating the environment the more perfectly will be performed all the functions of body and mind, and the functions that stand higher than the mere mmd —the heart and character, the " eternal womanly " in woman. If this applies to the voluntary muscles it applies with infinitely greater force to the working of the involuntary muscles—the muscles of such organs as heart, lungs, &c, to the digestive and excreting organs, &c, and to the workings of the brain and spinal cord. Yet not one word is said in the hygienic directions for teachers regarding the need for the stimulation of our ordinary and special senses by, say, an hour or so, if possible, of daily exposure to open air and sunshine in the playground, school-garden, &c. Once imbued with such truths a teacher will realize that ten minutes of desultory drill is a poor substitute for proper recreation, and he will be inclined to duly impress on his pupils the importance of the morning bath or swim and an active walk or run for a quarter of an hour afterwards. You will scarcely believe that the official pamphlet on Hygiene does not even mention exercise, either sensory, muscular, or organic, except a few lines of advice on organizing games in the playground, which is not much use in the absence of playgrounds. Nothing is said as to the why and wherefore. As Dr. Woods Hutchison says, "If it came to be a question of a school without a playground, or a playground without a school, give me the playground." Bathing with warm water is enjoined to cleanse the sk'jn, but not a word is said as to cold bathing, which, if less attractive and fashionable, is infinitely more important to the individual and the race. Fresh air is damned by faint praise; not a word is said to convey the impression that bedroom air should be pure and cool; that windows should be kept wide open, and that a current should pass across the room by means of windows and doors or chimneys, &c. What can one infer from such phrases as "they ought not to sleep with their windows absolutely shut," or "whether they sleep with open windows or not, they should always open the windows wide before leaving the bedroom"? Half a century ago it was laid down that there were to be outlets and inlets for " Tommy Atkins " and for prisoners which would ensure the supply of, say, thirty or forty thousand cubic feet of fresh air during the night; in the course of the last twenty years the conclusion has been daily more forced on all of us that we ought to sleep outside rather than inside our houses; consumptives and other diseased or delicate people are being put out in the open air day and night in our sanatoria; those who can afford it are adding balconies to their houses for the same purpose; babies are kept out in the open air during the first week of life, not only in our St. Helens and baby hospitals, but in many private houses also. The little primer has been ardently preaching pure, fresh air for years, and yet the most up-to-date special official advice for our teachers does not venture to go beyond the mild suggestion that it would be just as well to open the windows a chink. Regarding the only other material need of our bodies the official advice is no better. On the one hand it is enjoined, " Tell them [the pupils to drink plenty of water and milk if ther have the chance," as if milk were a mere drink and not a food containing half as much solid material per pound as eggs or beefsteak; and they are told to advise eating for tiredness, though the modern tendency is to overeat, and the tiredness of our boys and girls is generally due to bad air, insufficient exercise and recreation, and too much cramming of books, together with overeating and the eating of scraps and sweets between meals. The official " Scheme for Teaching Hygiene " does not give the slightest hint that there is any harm in such habits, and nothing is said as to the need for eating hard or dry food. Compare this with the sound, sensible advice contained in the little child's primer, as previously quoted, and the following from the same source: "There is no part of the body that is useless; every part has its duty to perform. Some children will not eat anything hard; they do not like hard crusts of bread. You would almost think they had false teeth and were afraid of breaking them by eating anything hard or tough. Gums would do as well as teeth for the food they eat. They do not use their teeth. So the teeth decay and are taken away from them." To emphasize the effect of exercise 1 will show you the skull of an elderly Maori, whose tough, hard diet of fernroot had given him, like all the older Maoris, a splendid set of teeth, showing not a speck of caries, though the younger generation of Maoris, having adopted soft food, sweets, and flour ground in mills instead of in the mouth, are now subject to decayed teeth just like ourselves. This is surely the kind of practical local lesson to sheet home in our schools. Dr. Pickerill, the Professor of Dentistry in Otago University, the leading authority in the Dominion, has no doubt about the fact that the battle against dental caries will have to be fought out mainly in the nursery and in the primary schools. Dr. Pickerill found bad teeth much more prevalent in New Zealand than in England, and it appears from our Defence Report, just issued, that there are more than twice as many of our youths rejected on account of decayed teeth as in the case of the British army. In Dr. Pickerill's opinion this is due to people in New Zealand being better off all round, and children eating far more sweets in consequence. The pain and suffering, the lowered
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mental and physical condition of the little children cry aloud for help. The people, their parents, are for the most part blind and ignorant as to the cause and remedy. For the removal of this ignorance the State must be responsible. The report of the Royal Commission on Physical Deterioration found that dental caries is a potent cause of physical deterioration, and Professor Osier, of Oxford, is of the opinion that in this respect the effect of dental disease is greater than that of alcohol. Surely a disease affecting 90 per cent, of the population and as far-reaching in its effects as this has been shown to be is a national ill. Thousands of pounds are wasted annually in the treatment of phthisical patients who cannot masticate properly the food abundantly supplied It has been observed that the children with marked oculate caries remain at the bottom of the school. Reverting to the effect of our medern system of education on adolescence and budding womanhood, I wisli to quote the following from the " Text-book of Gynecology, "_ by Professor Ashton, of Philadelphia : " Our modern system of education has a decidedly injurious influence upon the general and sexual strength of women. Too little attention is paid to the development of the physique and the general health in our efforts to give young girls a polished education. There is no attempt upon the part of parents or educators to regulate the amount or character of mental work to suit the health and temperament of the individual, and no consideration is given to the necessity for special care and attention at the time of puberty and during the menstrual periods, when nature demands physical and mental rest. Young qms are sent to school or to college and subjected daily to long hours of study, in cramped positions and in badly ventilated class-rooms, regardless of their age or physical condition or the demands of their sexual development. ' In one word, it is to the present cramming and high-pressure system of education, together with its environment, that I attribute much of the menstrual derangements, the sterility, and the infecundity of our women, the absence of sexual feeding, the aversion of maternity, the too often lingering convalescence from a first labour, which is frequently the only one,'and the very common inability to suckle their offspring. From this cause come most of my unmarried patients with nerve prostration, with their protean mimicry of uterine symptoms—unmarried often because they are not well enough to wed. If woman is to be thus'stunted and deformed to meet the ambitious demands of the day, if her health must be sacrificed upon the altar of her education, the time may come when, to renew the worn-out stock of this Republic, it will be needful for our young men to make matrimonial incursions into lands where educational theories are unknown (Goodell).' " The opinions of Home medical authorities looking at the matter from other special standpoints, bear out Dr. Ashton s conclusions Thus Dr. (Houston, writing from the point of view of the mind and nervous system has said "As physicians—as priests of the body and guardians of the physical and mental qualities'of the race—we are, beyond all doubt, bound to oppose strenuously any and every kind and mode of education that in any way lessens the capability of women for healthy maternity, and the reproduction of future generations strong mentally and physically Why should we spoil a good mother by making an ordinary grammarian?" Professor Stanley Hall, Principal of the Clark University, who stands alone as the most profound and reliable authority of the day on education and adolescence, says, "Herbert Spencer said that < absolute or relative infertility is generally produced in women by mental labour carried to excess. This has probably been nowhere better illustrated than by college graduates. Miss Howes found that _of 705 graduates 196 were married, but sixty-six of these had no children, while the remaining 130 had 232 living children, or 1"7 each, and had borne thirty-one who had died. Again while I sympathize profoundly with the claim of woman for every opportunity which she can nil, and yield to none in appreciation of her ability, I insist that the cardinal defect m the woman s college is that it is based upon the assumption, implied and often expressed, if not almost universally acknowledged, that girls should primarily be traiW to independence and self-support, and that matrimony and motherhood, if it come, will take cijfe of itself, or, as some even urge is thus best provided for. If these colleges are, as the above statistics indicate, chiefly devoted o the training of those who do not marry, or if they are W> educate for celibacy, this is right. These women are often splendidly equipped in mind and rfhysique, only they are not mothers, and sometimes have very little wifehood in them, and to attempt to marry them to develop these functTons is one of the unique and too frequent tragedies of modern life and literature. Some actTvelv deplore the necessity of child-bearing, and abhor the limitations of married life We nS distinctly and ostensivelv invert the present maxim, and educate primarily and chiefly for motherhood The familiar camaraderie that ignores sex should be left to the agenio class To Ac care of their institutions we leave with pious and reverent hands he ideals inspired by characters ike Hvpatia, Madame de Stael, the Misses Cobb, Martineau, Fuller Bronte by George Sio George Sand, and Mrs. Browning, and while accepting and profiting by what they have done and acknowledging every claim for their abilities and achievements prospective mothers must'nTbe allowed to forget a still larger class of ideal women both in history and literature, from the Holy Mother to Beatrice Clotilda de Vaux and a 1 those who haye mspired men to treat deeds and the choice and far richer anthology of noble mothers." I have quoted such authorities merely to show that the wrong done to the rising generation of girls in our schools L not merely a local matter-that modern education is a world-wide disease, and that the sooner w P set over it the better. The testimony of New Zealand doctors is emphatic and conclusive as o the irieparable harm that is being done. Our present system of over-strenuous so-called higher ntellectuaF education for girls, focussed especially on the classics and higher mathematics, and h nmlgof history, English, or even music, for examinations competitions, or scholarships, has Z dwarfing tendency in two directions-the frame and bodily organs are hable to be less s T ed, hlgheTin the^ran sentiment-tHe " eternal womanly " of Goethe-
84— B. 12.
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the higher affections, tenderness, helpfulness, devotion to family, home, and friends : in a word, unselfishness and altruism in their most natural and most beneficent practical expression. That these qualities do tend to become eclipsed is a matter on which there is no more room for doubt than there is for doubting our statistics in regard to motherhood in general nowadays, and the falling-off of power to nurture offspring, a falling-off which applies more or less to the whole community, but is most glaringly manifest among the victims of our higher education. However, the fact that doctors have inveighed strongly as to the disastrous effects on girls of cramming in connection with our so-called higher education does not imply that little harm is being done in our primary schools. Nothing could be further from the truth. The effects of neglect of the laws of healthy living, , especially confinement in stuffy class-rooms, lack of exercise and recreation, and restriction of attention to intellectual matters to the exclusion of the interests and love of home life and home associations, ties, duties, pleasures, and recreations commence make themselves felt long before children reach their teens —indeed, these evils often begin with the primary school—infants talking lessons in their sleep as a result of the excitement and anxiety of pending examinations. When a girl is entering her teens —the very period when she is growing and developing most rapidly and is .most vulnerable—she is commonly struggling to secure her free place in a high school, and medical testimony is unanimous as to the irreparable harm done to adolescence and budding womanhood in this way. As Dr. Lindo Ferguson proclaimed long ago, the eye-strain does not result in mere spectacled shortsightedness; it frequently brings on widespread nervous breakdown. Dr. Batchelor, the leading authority on diseases of women in the Dominion, has given the strongest testimony regarding his experience in practice, and the Superintendents of the mental hospitals of the Dominion have inveighed for years against the deplorable results which are brought under their notice inside and outside asylums. Indeed, the medical profession is unanimous on this important matter, and scarcely less significant is the testimony of masters of primary schools and leading teachers of high' schools, the-latter speaking as to the impaired health they have observed themselves in connection with many pupils coming to them from the primary schools. But even if there is no obvious physical harm done teachers and parents should be brought to realize that childhood and early girlhood afford the best opportunities for establishing proper life habits and inclining the individual to home life and domesticity. This is already being given full practical recognition in many schools on the Continent, in America, and here and there even in England. The most enlightened guardians of girlhood are no longer content with mere instruction in hygiene, cooking, sewing, &c, but find an excellent relief from the mental drudgery of school-work by getting a doctor or nurse to bring a baby or young child into the school from time to time in order to interest the girls in a thoroughly practical way in the care and welfare of little children. Not only are true motherly tendencies and sympathies fostered and developed in this way, but it is found that schoolchildren so trained form the best of missionaries, carrying back to their own homes from the school practical ideas and knowledge which leaven the whole home. These schoolgirls form the best of all missionaries for fresh air, proper feeding, cleanliness, exercise, regular habits, &c. In an excellent article just published on "A Fighting Chance for the City Child" the writer says, " The Philadelphia Board of Health did not send its physicians into the schools expecting, in one lesson, to make trained nurses and baby experts out of schoolgirls. The object was far deeper than that. It was part of a great comprehensive movement recently set' on foot in Philadelphia to educate a cityful of people in clean, rational living, to create an environment in which children may have a fair chance to thrive." In view of all the facts I cannot understand how girls and women continue to desire to have imposed on them a form of education which has become evolved in an unfit way for boys, and which is ten times more harmful and unfit for girls. Had women originated a system of education specially adapted to their own natures, needs, tastes, and special aptitudes, it can scarcely be conceived that men would have consented to have the same scheme enforced on boys, and I feel that the time has come when something should be arrived at in the way of education more suited to the highest interests of women. It is not merely a question of doing away with competition with young men for university scholarships, but the whole scheme needs recasting. As a matter of detail for immediate amendment the Medical Association has desired me to protest against the present requirement of the medical certificate when parents wish to keep their daughters periodically away from school, and I am gladto do so. Further, it is of the utmost importance from the medical and public-health points of view that the teachers should not suffer pecuniarily through pupils being kept away from school on account of illness, especially during convalescence from infectious diseases. As" to the widespread fallacy that it would be a good thing if out' so-called higher education were more universal, I am strongly of opinion that wo should cease to mislead our population with the entirely wrong idea that there is any advantage to the average boy or girl to gain entry to a high school or university. We should bring them to realize, on the contrary, that except for the few— a small percentage—this pressing on to attain to the merest smattering of higher education is as much a waste of time for the pupil as it is for the teacher. Nothing militates more against the efficiency of teaching in the higher educational establishments. I would suggest these fundamental reforms: (1.) Adequate open-air playgrounds for every school. Where this is not possible the sparing of no effort to compensate by means of well-equipped gymnastic apparatus, &c. and the providing of parks for games, municipal swimming-baths, &o. (2.) Proper provision for the ventilation, lighting, &c, of schools, and suitable furnishings (desks, forms, &c). (3.) The devotion of a reasonable time daily to open-air occupations and recreations as compulsory parts of every school curriculum, this being necessary not only to ensure good bodily health, but in order to promote and perfect the structural growth of the whole organism, including the brain and spinal cord. (4.) Restriction of the quantity of mental work (especially memorizing of unimportant matters and excessive quantitative demands made in connection with
i\ T. KING.
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arithmetic, mathematics, grammar, languages, &'c.) imposed in and out of school; and the adoption of some recognized approximate standard for home lessons, so that parents may be able to form an idea as to what course they should pursue—how long pupils should be allowed to work on the average, &c. (5.) Reduction in the number of subjects studied during any one term. The recognition of quality rather than quantity of work. Due concentration of attention and clear thinking are impossible under the existing rush, hurry, and overpressure. Our periodical examinations are obviously overdone, and are not satisfactory as tests of true assimilated knowledge and capability. (6.) A proper adjustment of studies to meet the respective necessities and aptitudes of boys and girls, the future man or woman being always kept in view. The subject of " Domestic Economics " —all that concerns the ability to do well everything connected with the horne —is surely worthy of the practical attention it is receiving in Canada and the United States. (7.) The safeguarding of pupils from mental or physical breakdowns by encouraging open-air games, by simple practical instruction in elementary hygiene and the laws of life, and by careful adjustment of school burthens by competent teachers trained to detect almost intuitively the first signs of failure in body, mind, or spirits. All pupils should be measured and weighed at regular intervals, and a proper register should be kept. In Berlin it has been shown conclusively that most children in the incipient stages of consumption continue to attend school (and must transmit the disease from one to another) without either parents or teachers having any suspicion that they are seriously ill. Loss of weight is the most valuable indicator we have of incipient phthisis, and should always put a teacher on his guard. A school doctor should be readily accessible in connection with all teaching establishments. (8.) The removal of temptation to cram now held out in the form of scholarships. These might be done away with or granted in future on the certificates of responsible teachers, without the holding of special examinations, to those who most deserve them, and whose parents could not afford the expense of higher education. Of course, this or any other system needs safeguards, but the success of the principle as adopted in America, Japan, and Europe shows fhe proper trend. The attainment of transient mental supremacy by sacrifice of bodily needs and accomplishments should be entirely discountenanced, and any recognition of merit should take into account reasonable physical proficiency, due allowance being made for delicate children. (9.) That further facilities and encouragement be afforded in the direction of education tending to fit boys for rural pursuits, and stimulating intelligence and interest in regard to the main work of the country. (10.) A broad, thorough training of all teachers in the fundamental requirements for educating youth to the best advantage in accordance with modern knowledge. It seems to me that any one might subscribe to these broad essentials, most of which receive scant attention at the present time, as desirable and more or less necessary for the future well-being of the individual and the race. Apart altogether from the positive advantages which would accrue from a strictly educational standpoint, I am confident that the resultant decrease in disease, degeneracy, and ineptitude would be important, practical, and economic considerations for the Dominion. (11.) In regard to ordinary infant schools — (a.) Pupils not to be admitted before six or, preferably, seven years of age. (b.) Only morning school (say 7, for three hours) to be attended up to nine years of age. (c.) The children to be cleared out for play and airing of school every forty-five minutes. (This to apply to schools for older children also.) Due attention to be paid to games by teachers. (d.) Overcrowding of class-rooms to be avoided; suitable teachers to be provided; smaller classes; less examination. (12.) In regard to all schools the teachers not to suffer pecuniary loss through pupils being kept away for reasons such as monthly rest, illness, infections, <fee.
Monday, 15th July, 1912. George Leighton Stewart examined on oath. (No. 201.) 1. The Chairman] What are you? —Secretary of the Wellington Education Board, which appointment I have held for eight years. Prior to that I was in business, and before that a teacher for sixteen years. 2. What certificate did you hold under the Department?—At the time I relinquished teaching I had a C 2 certificate. 3. Have you prepared a statement? —I have two or three sets of notes. First, regarding compulsory attendance : A careful administration of the compulsory clauses of the Education Act has disclosed certain defects to which I think it desirable to direct attention. (1.) The procedure under section 152 should, I think, be made identical with that under section 153. It has been for some time a growing practice for children who desire to evade the Truant Inspector to leave the school they have been attending, to obtain a certificate of transfer to another school, but to neglect enrolment at the latter. Being no longer enrolled, the parent cannot be proceeded, against until seven days from receipt of notice to enrol the child. Thus an interval of one week must elapse, and several may elapse before the child is returned to school, and no punishable offence is committed until seven days after receipt of the legal notice. (2.) Children, of school age are not infrequently employed during school hours on goods-delivery carts. It is most frequently a tradesman or his employee who encourages the absence of the child, but he commits no offence under the law, although the parent, who in some instances may be ignorant of the absence of the child, can be proceeded against under the existing clauses of the Act. It is suggested that a penalty be imposed as a deterrent, onus of disproof of an offence to rest with the employer: (3.) There are in this centre a few children who, being irregular in attendance, lapse into habitual truancy, and by an easy descent into actual misdemeanour. At this later stage the Magistrate may commit to an industrial school. At the earlier stage of mere truancy he might commit the child to a truant school if a truant school existed, or, on the application of the parent for
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his commitment, accompanied by an undertaking to make a weekly payment, the child might, on the order of the Magistrate, be committed to an industrial school. Such children are not infrequently uncontrollable, and the parents unable to give the necessary undertaking. I submit for the consideration of the Commission the question whether the well-being of the State and of the child would not be best safeguarded by commitment at the earlier stage. If it is considered advisable the following additional clause by way of amendment to the Education Act of 1908 would meet the case : " If any child required by this Act to attend a public school does not so attend such child shall be deemed to be a child not under proper control, and on the Secretary of the Education Board or School Committee of the district in which such child resides furnishing any constable with a written report to this effect, he shall apply to any Magistrate to have the said child committed to an industrial school under section 17, subsection (2), of the Industrial Schools Act, 1908." Through the courtesy of the officer in charge of the Industrial Schools Branch I have been favoured with information as to the number of children committed during the years 1908-1911; 117 was the total, of whom 103 were committed from the Wellington Courts, four were committed from the Masterton Court, four were committed from the Pahiatua Court, one was committed from the Petone Court, two were committed from the Otaki Court, and three were committed from the Levin Court I wish to add that the above recommendation has been made after consultation with officers of the Court whose duty it is to deal with such cases. I may say that the officers of the Court are extremely good to us in matters relating to truancy, and this proposal has the concurrence of these officers. Returns : I am of opinion that the time has come for a careful scrutiny of the whole field covered by returns, with a view to determine whether a simplification of the form and a reduction in the number of returns required of Boards by the Education Department may not with great advantage be undertaken. Given sufficiency of detail for the statistical purposes of the Government, and given the security of audit, returns should, I think, be reduced to the simplest form possible. I beg therefore to submit for the consideration of the Commission a few suggestions which may tend at once to simplification and reduction of work, to decrease in cost, and to increased efficiency. The amount of detail required at the present time is, it appears to me, more than is reasonably necessary. Manual and technical work : lake, for instance, the procedure in regard to recognition and claim on account of manual and technical classes. The procedure is known to your Commission, and I submit that the complete abolition of the recognition of classes and of all it entails would not result in decrease of efficiency or increase of cost. The procedure in connection with claim for free books is an instance of the kind of return which 1 think might verj 7 well be adopted in other parts of the financial work. The Department pass the grants, for free books on nry certificate as to the numbers in various standards, which are compiled from the Board's returns. The numbers are not given in detail, but in totals only, and this principle, I suggest, should be made very nearly all-comprehensive throughout the field of returns. In manual and technical work we have the experience of a number of years to indicate average cost. Why should not payments be made on the certificate of the Board's Secretary, based on the report of the Inspector as to the number of children who have performed specified courses in accordance with regulations? The numbers could be compiled from quarterly returns which already provide the required information. Rural course : In regard to the manual and technical rural course at district high schools a similar simplification should, I think, be adopted. At the present time we have a fixed allowance of £-5 per annum per pupil, and for the same pupils a large number of capitations for which individual claim has to be made. The amount earned under the Manual and Technical Regulations on account of these latter classes is equal to about one-third of the £5 10s. allowance. Would it not equally serve the requirements of the case that on proper certificate that the pupils on account of whom the claim is made have duly carried out the course in accordance with regulations payment should be made? As regards the annual returns—(l.) Salaries of teachers: Seeing the payments of the Board are every one subject to Government audit, it should suffice to provide general information in somewhat the following form :—
The details being given to each grade, the total giving the annual amount payable in salaries. Each quarter, instead of the detailed adjustment which is at the present time required, I think that a statement in somewhat the following form should meet all requirements : —
658
Grade. Number of Schools. Annual Rate of Salary. .- Totals
Grade. Number of Schools. Annual Rate. Adjustment. i Dr. Cr. I
8.—12.
G. L. StEWART.]
659
The difference between the last two columns would indicate the total sum due by or to the Board. In reference to this I may say that I have looked up the amount of money involved in the adjustments of the past year, and 1 find that we overclaimed on one account 2s. 2d., and that the Department allowed us subsequently about £10 125., certain information regarding certificates not having been in our possession at the time. That shows a comparatively small margin of error, it being remembered that we had some 6,500 transactions covering an amount of nearly £70,000. (2.) As regards scholarships it does not appear essential that the names of the individual scholarship-holders should be given at any time. The following simple statements should provide all that is necessary : —
Adjustment similar to that in the case of teachers' salaries and in similar simple form should suffice. (3.) Conveyance :As regards the procedure in reference to conveyance I do not see why this should not be simplified on similar lines. (4.) The quarterly return might be reduced in the number of its lines, and it is not quite clear that, assuming the general principle suggested is adopted, the Department should require more than the totals now supplied in the quarterly return. Return No. 1 (Salaries) being modified, Return No. 2 (Pupil-teacher and Probationer) would be similarly reduced, and without knowledge of the purpose to which No. 6 is devoted I am unable to see that it is quite necessary. Similarly, without a knowledge of the purpose to which No. 11. is devoted, I do not see that a detailed statement throughout 11 and 11a is required. Reduction in the amount of work devoted to returns for the Department will result in similar reduction of the amount required by the Board of Teachers, and will also, I am satisfied, to some extent promote increased efficiency. Probably a complete scrutiny of the whole area covered by returns would reveal other directions in which simplification would be possible. Buildings : Most of the school buildings erected in this district are of wood, only about half a dozen being of brick. The following are instances of the cost from 1910 to 1912 : Per cubic foot, taking in the whole building, 4|d. to 6Jd. (the last-mentioned a small school); per square foot of class-room floor-space, 10s. lid. to 15s. : similarly, for additions, per cubic foot, 4|d. to s|d.; per square foot of glass-room floor-space, 10s. 7d. to 14s. Bd. Cost of new buildings in brick, 1906 to 1910 : Per cubic foot, B|d., 6j-d., 5-|d., 4Jd., 5-|d.; per square foot of class-room floor-space, 19s. 6d., 14s. 2d., 15s. 5d.~ 17s. 10d., 15s. 2*d. Height of stud, 1.3 ft. to 13 ft, 6 in. The insufficiency of playground accommodation both in city and country is a question which has presented great difficulty to my Board. The original reservations for school-sites in this district were insufficient in number, in some instances in area, and in many instances below the standard of quality. In the opinion of my Board in country districts an area of at least 5 acres of the most suitable land in the district should be provided. If 10 acres can be provided in a district where the school is likely to attain any considerable size that would be still better, as in cases where the teacher can be provided with a piece of suitable ground the tendency to frequent change is reduced. lam of opinion that sufficient care has not been exercised in laying out sites in districts where estates have been acquired for closer settlement. In some instances no site at all has been provided, and it is only when the actual necessity for the establishment of a school has arisen that the nonprovision of a site has come under the notice of the Board. I think it would be a good plan if a representative either of the Department or of the Education Board were to visit such estates in company with a representative of the Lands Department while the lands are being surveyed, so that a suitable selection may be made for the future school. The importance of a school to a district is such that not the poorest but the very 7 best site should be placed at the disposal of the Board for the purpose. lam further of opinion that where a private owner subdivides any considerable area of land for closer settlement, so that a school will be required in the district, he should be required in the subdivision of it to provide free of cost to the State an area of at least 5 acres. lam aware that many people will think this suggestion unjust, but it is well known that the establishment-, of a school very materially increases the capital value of adjacent lands, especially where the district is a dairying one. Indeed, traffic in farms after the establishment of a school is a well-known practice. The State establishes a school, and immediately after the value of the adjacent farms is enhanced, and the holder can sell out at a very material profit. I have in my possession a number of letters just received in response to an inquiry made as to the effect of the establishment of a school on the value of adjacent lands. The inquiry was made regarding districts where within the last few years the Board has established schools. The replies show that in the opinion of the writers, who are practical men and acquainted with country 7 conditions, in nearly all instances the values had been increased to a very appreciable extent. The replies are confidential, and I therefore do not name localities, but I give you the general trend of the replies. For small farms the increased value appears to average about 15s. to £1 per acre. In one settlement the estimate given approximates £1 per acre over a 5,000-acre area; in another, land acquired for closer settlement, the increase is put down by the writer at £2,000 for the settlement. In view of these facts I think the recommendation is a reasonable one. My Board has had to spend large sums in the purchase of necessary sites for suburban schools. The practice of providing only half-cost is one which tends to hamper very greatly
Number. Annual Value. Quarterly Payment. Senior, A Senior, B Junior 1
[o. L. STEWA_RI\
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the building finances of a Board. I am of opinion that the Boards should not be required to pay half-cost. A similar increase is observable where in a suburban area a school is established, and I am of opinion that at the present time the powers of compulsory acquirement possessed by Boards are not sufficient. In some instances we have been very well met by owners, but others have taken advantage of the full strength of the market. Your Commission will understand that my Board has substantial reason for presenting this matter for consideration when I inform you that for purchase of sites this Board has paid since 1907 to 1912 a sum of over £5,000 in excess of grants amounting to about £3,800. No doubt my Board could have provided sites at less cost, but the experience of old countries shows the folly of not making in the first instance proper provision for school-sites. If a sufficient area in a city or suburban area is not in the first instance purchased, then it becomes both difficult and costly, sometimes impossible, to repair the error afterwards. The expenditure of this large sum on sites has rendered it necessary to defer a number of works, chiefly of reconstruction. The following shows briefly the area of school-sites actually in use in the Board's district: |-acre, 1; J- to J acre, 5; J to 1 acre, 31; 1 to 2 acres, 37; 2 to 3 acres, 24; 3 to 4 acres, 11; 4 to 5 acres, 13; 5 to 10 acres, 22 : total, 144. Another heavy item of expenditure is the cost of the introduction of the sewerage system to schools in suburban areas. On this item alone within two years the Board has expended between £900 and £1,000, besides a sum of £2,500 for combined renewal of conveniences and drainage during the last six years. The first item mentioned is not properly a maintenance charge. Outside the range of a town-sewerage system the pan system has been adopted in most schools in the district, but it proves burdensome in use. There are three septic-tank systems working within the district, but their cost precludes their adoption in small schools. The conveniences recently erected have been of good design, with individual basins and cistern. I cannot conclude without reference to a general and severe criticism of the administration of Boards which was presented to your Commission by the Secretary for Education, and which in fact means that in Boards generally there is neither virtue nor capacity. In this conclusion I naturally cannot concur. It is true my experience is not wide, but the methods of administration suggested to be quite general are not the methods of the Wellington Education Board. That Board is composed of men of experience, who give their time to the public freely without reward, and who, as I know them, face the problems of the district with ability and integrity. Ido not recognize any of the specific cases quoted, and therefore cannot deal with them in detail; but in this district, where an application for a school or for increased accommodation appears to the Board not to be justified, then the applicant is so informed. The conclusion of the Board is reached after consideration and investigation of the matter by one or more of its Inspectors. Where the probabilities of permanency of attendance are not great we invariably make temporary arrangements. In some instances a small building or room is locally provided, and in others a hall is rented. To suggest that there is practically a collusion of parents and Committees with the Board and Inspectors does not represent the facts as they exist in this district. As other instances of economy I may mention that during the last eight years we have moved about eight buildings to serve for use in other localities. As illustrating the methods of the Board I shall mention one of these. At Levin the number quite outgrew the existing school, and a new school was therefore erected. The old school was removed several miles to Koputarua and there re-erected, Koputarua having also outgrown its school. The old school at Koputarua was used for an addition to the residence. Later an old school at Weraroa was moved to Levin and converted into a laboratory. The sheds and conveniences of the old Levin School were used in other schools where they were required. The truth is that the whole difficulty centres round one problem which not all the skill of the Department and not all the skill of the Boards has yet solved—namely, the discovery of a general principle on which moneys required for new buildings may be fairly distributed to Boards, so as to afford them the money necessary for fairly meeting their requirements. If the officers of the Department, with access to the records of thirteen Boards, have failed to elucidate such a principle, I fail to see that the Boards should be condemned who have access to only one set of records. I may say that I have great sympathy with the small groups of settlers who have taken up land in the backblocks, and where proper means of conveyance cannot be arranged the Board naturally approves proposals for providing them with a school, convincing evidence being first forthcoming that there will be sufficient attendance. The practice of speculation in land has, however, been so common in this country that with the most careful scrutiny the numbers have in some instances entirely changed before the school is erected. I have an instance in mind where at the time of investigation there were over twenty children on the list, and when we opened the school only eight appeared, and yet the Board exercised every care. It is suggested by the Department that the amount of the grant should in all instances be the measure of the expenditure. Unfortunately one cannot control the tenders of contractors, and it occasionally happens that the Department reduces the amount applied for, even where this amount is reasonable. The Board cannot in all instances complete the work for the amount of the grant. The Boards are criticized by reason of the failure of some of them to pay adequate salaries before the Salaries Act was passed. It is suggested that the inequality was due not so much to incapacity as to the ■insufficiency of the moneys provided. This is shown by the fact that when the new scale of salaries came into operation a much greater sum was appropriated for salaries and buildings than had hitherto been granted to Boards. In conclusion, I am satisfied that the Boards have faithfully and well fulfilled the trust reposed in them by the Legislature. The benefits of education have been made available from the North Cape to the Bluff. The Boards have appointed staffs of capable Inspectors, who have in their respective districts organized the system of education. The public records show that the schools are on the whole capably managed and the children efficiently taught. Regularity of attendance has so improved that now the worst districts record a regularity of attendance equal to what was formerly recorded by the best, and this result has
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been achieved, I venture to say, with a wastage of public money certainly not greater than is found in the Departments of the State which carry out their duties under direct State control. 4. Mr. Wells.} You suggested one or two directions in which economy might be effected : are there any other directions in which you think economy might be effected without destroying efficiency? —It is really for the experts —our Inspectors —to say. I do not know that we can exercise more economies within the schools. 5. You do not know any direction in which economy can be effected throughout this district?— I think we are managing our business very economically. 6. Do you know of any instances of overlapping of work? —That again is a matter for the experts. 7. How many schools have you in this district? —About 170. 8. Do you think this Board could efficiently control a larger number than that? —I should think there would be no difficulty about that. The fact that a Board can control a larger number than that is shown by the experience of other districts. The cost of administration decreases to some little extent proportionately with the increase in the size of the district, 9. Can you see any reason why the Education Board should not exercise a general control of primary, secondary, and technical education ?—I think the question is answered elsewhere. One or two Boards do control primary and secondary education. In Marlborough I understand the secondarj 7 and primary Boards are composed of the same persons. As a matter of fact we do now control a branch of secondary education —the district high school. 10. Is there any shortage of teachers in this district? —Yes and No. We are not nearly so badly off as some of the districts which are in more remote parts of the Dominion. For one thing, a number of teachers come to the Dominion and they land here, and we sometimes get the services of these. But there certainly 7 is much difficulty about the teachers for the two lower grades of country schools —Grades 1 and 2. 11. Have you anything to say with regard to the proportion of men and women offering for service?—l feel satisfied that the remuneration offered is not such as will continue to attract the services of the best ty-jDe of man in sufficient numbers to meet our requirements. 12. You do not find that difficulty with regard to the women?—No, not to the same extent. 13. You think it does exist with regard to the men?—l look at the attractions offered by other Departments of the State and by other callings. I know it is argued that teachers have many holidays, and that that is a consideration. But, after all, the main consideration is the monetary one with most, although the love of education no doubt is the controlling reason with some. I have here a letter addressed to me from the Postal Department. It is as follows : " General Post Office, Wellington, 21st May, 1912. —The Chairman, Education Board, Wellington. —Sir, —With a view 7to improving the existing conditions I have been directed by the Secretary of the Post and Telegraph Department to make an exhaustive inquiry into the selection, engagement, training, and office accommodation provided for telegraph message-boys throughout the Dominion. As a first step the Assistant Inspector-General of Schools has handed me a letter addressed to Education Boards, in which he commends the object of the inquiry to your favourable consideration, and indicates that any assistance given will be appreciated by his Department. In approaching the Board it is my desire to obtain through you the sympathetic assistance of your headmasters in securing for our Department the services of suitable boys who have passed the Sixth Standard with proficiency. It would also be of material assistance to us if you can see your way to the issue of a letter addressed to the headmasters of public, high, and technical schools setting out the object in view, and requiring them to keep a register of eligible lads between the ages of thirteen and sixteen years for inspection by our recruiting officer. The advantages now offered by our regulations might also be pointed out, They are such that a lad of thirteen may start on £31, with uniform and overcoat; after one year he receives £40, and may at any time qualify for promotion to a cadetship, when he would receive £50, and if stationed away from home a lodging-allowance of £26. By regular annual increments he rises without promotion to £220 within fourteen years. Should he pass the Civil Service Senior Examination he receives a double increment, thus shortening the term by a year. His promotion to higher grades depends largely upon his own energy and ability. After forty years' service, while still in the prime of life, he can retire on a pension of from £146 to £300. The proposed training scheme for message-boys who enter the service embraces departmental correspondence classes, tuition in writing, typing and telegraphy, the establishment of boys' clubs, military and official discipline, and improved office accommodation. It is most desirable that these lads, from whose ranks every office in the service will eventually be filled, should be selected from the very best material produced by the education system. With this object in view I think it may be confidently anticipated that your Board will cordially co-operate in obtaining its fulfilment,— I have, <fee, J. H. Stevens, Assistant Inspector of Post-offices." 14. What is the proportion of men in the teaching ranks? —The proportion of men has gone down by about one-fourth during the last thirty years. In 1880 the percentage of males was 48 - 5, and in 1910 the proportion was 369, inclusive of pupil-teachers in each case. The proportion of male pupil-teachers has remained practically stationary. In 1880 the proportion was 24-3, and in 1910, including probationers, 233. Those figures are for the Dominion. I have also the numbers that entered the training colleges last year and this year. There was a percentage of 31,5 of males last year and of 248 this year. We have in this district fifty-six schools in Grades I and 2, and of these I think the staffing shows thirty-one uncertificated teachers, of whom three are ex-students. 15. A number of those will probably have partial certificates?—l have not any- means of saying. 16. Mr. Davidson] Can you say how many of those teachers in Grades 0, 1, and 2 are females? —I have not quoted Grade 0. I can very readily get the figures. Another sidelight
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on the question is the number of places that we have to readvertise. We have had to readvertise quite a number. Twenty of these are £90 to £120 positions, four are £120 to £150, and the others are individual cases in other grades. We have had to readvertise for secondary assistants several times, and we have had an extraordinary number of changes in them. 17. Mr. Kirk] Are there any Native schools in your district? —Not many. We have a number of Maori children in our schools—about 350 Maori children. 18. Do you see any reason why those Native schools should not be placed under your Board? —I have never considered the matter, but they could be administered just the same as other schools. 19. Can you suggest any means by which a saving could be effected in the matter of the supply of stationery to schools ?—Wholesale purchase would cheapen it. 20. Do you think that would be wise?—lt would mean additional administrative work. There would be some gain. We in this district have this year supplied a quantity of stationery for use in schools. 21. What is the attitude of your Board on the question of dual or single desks in the schools? —We are putting in dual desks. W 7 e have most of our schools provided with dual desks. 22. Does your Board like the dual desk better than the single desk? — We cannot afford to put up rooms to hold the single desk—it means larger schoolrooms. We have single desks in the secondary departments of district high schools and in a few other schools. 23. Are there many schools in your district now that have the long desk?—No, hardly any. 24. Mr, Davidson] Have you considered the desirability of setting up a Council of Education to guide the general educational polic}' of the Dominion? —I have not given the matter such consideration as would make my opinion worth anything. 25. What is your opinion about the present method of electing Education Boards? —My opinion is that we should not get better members on the Boards if the franchise were widened. The Committees are directly representative of the parents and the householders, and the Boards are elected by the members of the Committees. Moreover, the cost of election of Boards is very trifling. I find that we in tin's district can conduct an election for between £12 and £15. 26. Have you any idea as to the percentage of householders present at the annual meetings?— No, I have no means of knowing that. The election does not in all cases take place on the statutory date. I have attributed that in part to the fact that the season of the year is unsuitable. 27. In how many instances did the householders fail to elect the Committee in this district last year?—l could not answer definitely without looking up. We had very few this year—not more than ten or a dozen, I suppose. 28. Do you approve of the ward system in connection with the election of Education Board members?—l do not see there is any benefit in it. f think the members of my Board are so regardful of the general interests of the district that the objections which in other places might be urged against the ward system hardly exist here. 29. Would there be any practical difficulty in working the districts of, say, Marlborough and Nelson with Wellington?—l am not intimately acquainted with those districts. 30. You cannot see any real difficulties? —I do not know that I do. Of course, the area is large, and with increased area close and efficient supervision becomes increasingly difficult. 31. Would the increased area be equal to the Auckland Education District? —I have not studied the relative areas. 32. Do you think it would be to the advantage of education if the teachers in these two small districts mentioned by me had greater opportunities of promotion within a larger district? —I should think it would be pleasing to the teachers in those districts. At the same time the teachers in our own district, where we have a larger number of large schools than either of the others, complain that the rate of promotion is not sufficiently rapid. 33. How would you overcome that evil?—l do not know how 7it could be overcome. We cannot increase the nurnbei of large schools. It might perhaps be done through continued increment of salary. 34. Do you think it possible to have a Dominion scheme of promotion for teachers, just as there is a Dominion scheme of promotion in other branches of the Public Service?—lt is quite possible. It is a question whether it is advisable. 35. What, do you think are the objections against a Dominion scheme of promotion for teachers? —I cannot say that at the present time lam in favour of a Dominion scheme. For one reason I do not see how we are to get al the real qualification of the teacher with the accuracy that we now get at the relative qualifications of teachers. 36. If the Dominion were divided into inspectorial districts, and Inspectors were under the control of some central body, say the Council of Education, do you think it would then be possible to formulate a satisfactory Dominion scheme of promotion?— That I have not considered. 37. Speaking of the friction that is said-to exist between the Department and Education Boards in regard to money grants, have you considered the question of local taxation for the purpose of raising part of the money required for building and upkeep and equipment?—ln the first instance we have no friction with the Department at all; we have been treated with every courtesy, although we do not always get replies such -as we should like. Still, we recognize that the Department, so far as the money they have to distribute is concerned, give us absolute justice. 38. Perhaps I should not have used the word " friction," but there are difficulties, as you yourself pointed out, in connection with providing money for school-sites and increased playgrounds and buildings generally?— Yes. I have given some consideration to the matter, but I really have not been able to come to the enunciation of a general principle. It cannot be on the value of the buildings; it cannot be on attendance; it cannot even be on increase of attendance. 39. Unless some better method of providing and distributing the money required is evolved do you not think this trouble and friction are inevitable? —If the amount of money available is less than the amount of money which the Boards say 7is required undoubtedly there must be scrutiny of the applications.
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40. If the money were raised by a local rate, liberally subsidized, do you not think this trouble and friction would disappear and a great deal of expense saved in the way of these returns that are now necessary? —I think that local rating would be very hard on rising districts. 41. Even if the subsidies were on a sliding scale?— Even then I do not see how you could escape from scrutiny of actual requirements. 42. Apart altogether from the question of scrutiny, do you not think the present trouble would be considerably lessened, if not entirely removed? Local rating might reduce it, but all the same I think the people of New Zealand would not approve a proposal for local rating on account of education. 43. Mr. Pirani] Sir Edward Gibbes, in the course of his evidence, said in regard to the superannuation scheme for teachers that united action by the Boards might have established a superannuation scheme a generation earlier. Can you tell me whether the Boards out of their funds could have obtained the money to establish a superannuation scheme a generation ago ?— You are asking me about that of which I have no personal knowledge. 44. If there were no superannuation scheme now do you think there is at the present time any possibility 7 of making, out of the surplus funds of the Board, the provision for superannuation that has been made by the State? —I hardly think it. 45. Do you know of any Boards that have funds available to assist, the superannuation scheme? —I am sure the Boards in the long-run will find that they have not more than enough money for their ordinary purposes. 46. Do you think it would have been legal for the Boards to have done it? —I have not considered that, but I am satisfied from the amount of money the Boards were receiving at that time it was not reasonable to expect them to find money for such a purpose. 47. Then, again, Sir Edward Gibbes said, " The centralizing tendency of the Department is due, not to the Department as generally supposed, but to the inherent weakness of the Boards themselves." Has that been your experience? —It is not quite easy to determine what that means. 48. Do you know of any inherent weakness of the Boards? —I think we have carried out the functions of a Board capably and promptly. 49. In the course of your administration have you seen any sign of the truth of the statement that the Boards are still shut up in their walls and are unable to see what lies beyond? T suppose that means they are so restricted in their ideas of administration that they are unable to see anything outside it ? —I do not think that fairly represents the attitude or the condition of Boards at all. Take the Wellington Board, for instance : over twenty years ago it was in the very front of those who were encouraging technical education. It erected this large building, and so has from that time to the present assisted technical educatidh in a way that I think has been of very great benefit to Wellington. I think the Boards do act in all matters that fairly come within their functions. 50. Is it not a fact that of late years there has been very much less friction between the Department and the Boards than there was, say, four or five or six or seven years ago ?—I cannot say that we have had friction at any time. I must only speak as I know. I have had every courtesy. 51. I am not talking about courtesy. I am speaking about granting requests made by Boards ?—As I have said, my Board has on many occasions not received the replies it desired, but possibly it was not practicable to grant all requests made. 52. Is it not a fact that during the last two or three years, say, the Boards have had their requirements more readily attended to than previously? —I think that is a fact. 53. Do you ascribe that to an improvement in the Department or to an improvement in the Boards' administration ? —I do not know that I had considered the reason of it. 54. Does it not surprise you sometimes to see how readily your requests are fulfilled, as compared with the state of things a few years ago?— Our business is certainly on many occasions dealt with very promptly. 55. With regard to the government of education, if a Council of Education were elected or appointed to take charge of the administration of the education system, and if under that Council there were four or six Education Boards for New Zealand, and under those Education Boards there were a series of School Boards having control of ten or fifteen schools, and the Committees were abolished and those School Boafds elected the Boards of Education, do you not think it would be an improvement on the present system of administration?—ln some instances I dare say one Committee with increased area of administration would fulfil the purposes of the Act better. In others, and these the greatest number, I should think the Committee administering the affairs of a single school would be better. 56. Do you not think that if there were some system like that, with, say, a School Board for the City of Wellington, you would be more likely to have better government of primary, secondary, and technical education—l mean if the control were centred in one authority?—lt was such a case as that that I had in mind. 57. That would be an improvement on the present system?—l do not see that it would be an advantage in the case of the isolated country school. 58. Sir Edward Gibbes also said that a school can be removed four miles and a half for £20. I should like to get some idea from you as to the cost of removal of schools, and as to whether your Board has adopted the policy of applying for new grants instead of removing a school to a more central site? —As I have said, we endeavour to administer the affairs of the district with economy. If there has been a change in the location of population, and we have had a school which could be used in an adjacent district, we have removed it. At the present time we have only one such school. 59. Have you done any removing of schools? —Yes, we have removed seven or eight buildings.
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60. Do you mind giving the Commission some instances of the cost of what has been done in that respect?—l got the clerk of works to look up the cost in the cases I quoted. We moved a one-teacher school a little more than a mile, and re-erected it at a cost of £84. The cost of shifting the school from Levin to Koputarua was £249, which works out at about the same average per room, 61. Can you give us any instance of an existing school in your district that could be shifted four miles and a half at a cost of £20?— No. Moreover, the removal of a school is always attended with some risk, and is nearly always attended with some reconstruction. During one removal we had the school wrecked by a gale. Really if all districts are like the Wellington District I do not see that there is much waste of school buildings. I know Otago District very intimately,, and it seems to me the schools there are well placed. 62. Have you any knowledge of any political influence having been successfully exercised for the purpose of obtaining grants for schools in your district when the Board could not get its requests acceded to? —I cannot give any such instance. I know political influence has been used as against projects of the Board which were not altogether pleasing to some people in the particular locality concerned. I will give an instance. We consolidated three schools in a district into two, and at each end of that district and in the middle there was an outcry against the consolidation, and I think in that instance representation was made by the member of the district. I may say in regard to these removals and the consolidation that the Department met us very fairly. 63. In regard to the erection of schools which have afterwards been found not to be fully occupied : is it not difficult in sawmilling districts for any one to estimate what the building requirements for education are likely to be even in the near future? —In cases like that of shifting population we endeavour to get temporary accommodation if possible. For instance, we have a sawmilling school a condition of the establishment of which was that the sawmiller should provide the building. We are just about to establish another school where we have rented a cottage and fitted it up at very slight cost. 64. Is that a matter of economy that has'been done at the suggestion of the Department or on the Board's own initiative? —W 7 e have not really consulted the Department about these two matters at all. 65. The Chairman] You do not think the conditions are such as to warrant putting a permanent school there? —Not yet. 66. Mr. Pirani] Does "your Board ever apply to the Department for grants for schools where you have not made sufficient investigation to prove that these schools are required? —No, but we may sometimes " fall in."' We investigate carefully on every occasion. 67. Is there not in some sawmilling districts a reasonable prospect of a smod attendance for five or even seven years, after which the attendance may fall away to almost nothing?— Yes; that depends very largely on the area of milling-timber available. We _ have known instances where schools of very considerable attendance have dwindled down to practically nothing. Again, the removal of a single family may mean a tragedy in the case of a small school. We are closing a school this month because a family of eight children is moving out of the district. 68. So that in a fair number of districts, at any rate within the last ten or twelve years, some of the schools have had to be practically temporary schools? —That is so. In a number of districts where we were not satisfied as to the permanence of the population we rented buildings. 69. If it were impossible to rent a place, and if the local sawmiller refused to put up a building, do you think it would be a proper thine to deprive the children in that district of education for'five or six years because of the possibility of the attendance falling away at the end of that period?—No, so long as there is a fair guarantee that the school will have that permanence. Of course, the conditions would to some extent determine the kind of building you would put up. , 70. Do yon have any difficulty in this district, where Maori children are attending your schools, of housing them in the small schools? Have you had any complaints about conditions being made unpleasant for the teacher and European pupils? —We have not had any actual complaints, but in some cases theve was a desire to have the children separated. We do not say anything publicly about it. It. really means that in these oases we should have slightly larger rooms. . , , . 71. Do you think it is a fair thing to ask the Department to provide extra accommodation in a school on the ground that there is a number of _ Maori children in attendance?—l should say each individual case must be determined on its merits. ' 72. The Chairman] As a matter of principle, is it not better to ask the Department to make a larger allowance for accommodation than they do at present?—Of course, Tarn not an expert, but I think 12 ft. is too little. ~,.-, 73. If the 14 ft. advocated by Dr. MeT can and others were practicable, is that not the proper wav we should go?— That is the direction in which progressive countries are going. ' 74. Mr. Pirani] Tn one place T know of there are twenty-three Maori and thirty European children on" the roll of the school, and the Department, thinks that a forty school on the basis of 12 ft. per child is sufficient accommodation for these fifty-three children : do you think that is a condition of things that should be tolerated?—l hardly think T should be asked to express an opinion on a matter I have no acquaintance with. 75 If you were a teacher, and that was the position at your school, do you think the Department would be doing right in granting a forty school for these fifty-three children ?—A roll attendance of fifty-three would probably mean an average attendance of forty-six, and in view of the fact that there is a considerable proportion of Maori children T think a little more accommodation should be granted. But Tdo not see really that the Maoris require very much additional room.
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76. In regard to the returns required by the Department, do you find that they concentrate a large amount of extra work on your staff during certain portions of the year? —Yes. 77. Do you think it would be an improvement if there could be some arrangement —1 do riot say this is practicable —by which, for the purpose of departmental returns, the eiid of the school year could be altered from December to March? —If the returns were simplified in the way suggested Ido not think they would be so burdensome. We certainly have more time in the Board office from July until November. 78. If the manual capitation payments were based on the attendance to the 31st June instead of to the 31st December would that not considerably reduce the amount of overtime you have to work now? —It might to some extent. Of course, I do not say that it would quite meet the statistical requirements of the Government. 79. The Chairman] You think the better reform would be in the simplification of the returns as suggested? —Yes. 80. Mr. Hogben] In regard to tiie question of the removal of schools, did you hear Sir Edward Gibbes's evidence? —Yes. 81. Do you know the particular case to which he referred? —No. I have not expressed any opinion on that. 82. Did you'understand his remarks'to apply to all oases of removal? —No. In fact, the Department has met us very fairly in regard to removals. 83. With regard to the truancy question, supposing we followed the plan that has been adopted in New South Wales in regard to committal to an industrial school—namely, in certain cases allow the formal committal to take place, but do not actually send the child to the school—■ allow the child to remain with its parents under probation of the Truant Officer of the Board or an officer of the Department so as to bring home the responsibility to the parent, do you think that would do good? —I think that would be worth a trial. The purpose of that recommendation is to save the child and also to bring home to the parent the necessity for parental control. I think in some cases that method would be effective. 84. In regard to returns, if instead of the audit of Education Board accounts being conducted by the Audit Department it was, as in some other countries, conducted by an officer of the Education Department who is acquainted witli the nature of education work and grants, do you not think that would do away with the necessity for a lot of these returns?— Possibly. I do not care one bit bow the audit is conducted. I think it would be a positive advantage if we had a continuous audit instead of an annual audit, 85. Have you experienced any unwillingness on the part of the Audit Department to allow a transfer from the general administration account to another account to clear up a balance?— Yes; I believe they have told us in one or two special cases this was not sanctioned by law. 86. Do you think that reading of the law is correct?— Well, it does not seem to be in accordance with the general powers given under section 52 of the Act. Of course, they hold there are overriding powers elsewhere. 87. Are you aware that the Education Department upholds the Boards' views? —Yes. 88. In a simple case of misunderstanding like that, do you not think it could easily be cleared up if the audit were conducted by an officer of the Education Department?— Possibly. Of course, f think our auditor does his work very well, but an officer of the Education Department would come with expert and intimate knowledge of educational requirements. 89. Or, failing an officer of the Education Department, do you think some one who had been trained in education matters should do the audit?— Yes, I do not see any objection. 90. Supposing these transfers are not allowed can you ever clear up any deficit?—We have got, as you know, certain deficits which have been on our books for eight or nine years, and will be to all eternity unless we can get them cleared up. 91. What is the only way to clear them up? —By transfers from other funds. 92. Which is the fund from which you would transfer? —In our case the Administrative Fund, and also from one section of the Building Fund to another. 93. Do you know of any Native school in your district now? —I am not informed on the matter. We took over the Native school at Papawai recently at the suggestion of the Department. 94. The Chairman] WTiat is the practice of your Board in regard to teachers in Grade 3 school when the attendance rises and the school passes into Grade 4 : do you transfer such teachers? —We have not done so. 95. In other words, you do not interfere with them? —We reserve to ourselves the right to do so, but we have not yet exercised that right. 96. Complaint has been made in various parts of the Dominion to levying what is practically a fine of 5 per cent, on the salaries of young teachers who have not reached the age of twentyone, which entitles them to a certificate: do you think that is a fair and proper rule? —I do not'think it is a just deduction. If they have fulfilled all the requirements of the certificate except the impossible one of age no deduction should be made. 97. I understand school libraries are in pretty extensive use in the city?—We have a great number of food school libraries, and my Board as a matter of policy subsidizes local contributions to the extent of 10s. in the pound up to a limit of £5 to any one school in any one year. We have some schools coming year after year and getting the subsidy. 98. Touching the point as to the wisdom or otherwise of rating for the purpose of obtaining playgrounds : you know pretty well the land-values in and around Wellington, and can you tell me'what chance there is of securing sufficient areas for future play-grounds unless some means is found to raise funds, say, by a system of local rating, together with assistance from the Boards and subsidies from the Consolidated Fund?—Of course, we have been preaching sites for years. We have felt that the sites are insufficient, and at the cost of considerable inconvenience we have obtained additions. It has certainly hampered our other operations.
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99. Are there sufficient parks in and around Wellington which could be used as playgrounds if the schools were planted adjacent to them, as is done in many parts of the world?—l question whether all the schools we require could be so planted. We have one or two schools not very far distant from parks, but most of them are not near. It certainly would be a great advantage if schools could always be erected close to public parks. 100. Should not that idea be kept steadily in view when town-planning is undertaken by the'authorities? —Certainly. I think the requirements of the schools in this respect have not been sufficiently recognized in the past. 101. Mr. Pirani] In regard to the burdens placed on Education Boards by the State, do you know what extra burden was placed on your Board by the abolition of free postage and telegrams?—l suppose something like £120. 102. Was any extra allowance paid to the Board by the State to compensate for that £120 a year? —No. 103. In regard to the payment of Inspectors, do you think that is a fair charge to put on the general fund: was there not at one time a special grant for the inspection of schools? —Of course, I am. not aware that that allowance ever covered the whole cost of inspection. 104. You know there was a special allowance? —There is a uniform allowance of £250 now. 105. Do you not think it would be a proper thing, just as teachers' salaries are graded, that Inspectors should be placed on a certain footing and payments made to them of a sufficient salary by the State?—l certainly think Inspectors should have a sufficient salary. 106. Do you think the present salaries paid to Inspectors, considering the fact that they have very little home life and a considerable amount of travelling in all sorts of weather, are commensurate with their duties?—ln some districts I should say they are not sufficient. 107. The salaries range from £600 a year down to £350 : do you think that is a fair payment for the class of men you want as Inspectors?—l think the scale is not high enough. 108. What do you think should be the minimum salary to be paid an Inspector?—l should certainly say not less than £400 a year, and probably a little more to begin with. 109. You know a teacher's highest salary is £450, including house allowance : do you think the minimum for an Inspector should be less than that paid to a teacher? —No, I dare say- not. 110. In regard to the conveyance of children, do you think that the present system of giving a fixed amount per child is likely to conduce to the adoption of the system?—We have found very great difficulty in making suitable arrangements under the existing system. We have been very anxious to do so, but we find it difficult to get reliable men with suitable vehicles at the rate allowed. 111. Do you think it would be better if the whole question was left in the hands of the Board to make special arrangements in each case, with the approval of the Department?—l do. We might occasionally be able to save the cost of a school by doing that. 112. Mr. Davidson] You know that when the Superannuation Fund was established the contributions came directly out of the salaries of the teachers and were not provided by Boards or Department?— That is so. Algernon Charles Gifford examined on oath. (No. 202.) 1. The Chairman] What is your position?—l am senior mathematical and science master at the Wellington Boys' College. I am an M.A. of Cambridge, and am classified Al. I started teaching in 1882 at the Waitaki High School, and I have been at Wellington College since 1905. 2. What is it you wish to bring before the Commission?—l have been asked to give evidence on behalf of the staff of Wellington Boys' College. In many respects our interests are identical with those of the Secondary Schools Assistants' Association, and several of the points I was asked to bring under your notice have been raised already by Mr. Heine. I shall merely emphasize a few of the most important of these, and then refer to one or two other points. Salaries have been mentioned to you again and again, but I do not think the point 1 wish to lay stress on has yet been considered. It is this : If the best work possible is to be done by a teacher he must be able to give all his time and to devote all his energies to the interests of his school. Every teacher, therefore, should receive sufficient salary to enable him to support his family without undertaking any outside work. At present this is impossible. There is hardly a married secondary teacher who is not forced to burn the candle at both ends. After the day's work comes a strenuous evening, and instead of a welcome break at each week-end conies further toil. Of the present College staff fifteen have found it necessary to supplement their incomes by private coaching, and in addition to this no less than seven teach evening classes at the Technical School. It is easy to picture what this means. Papers and exercises awaiting correction accumulate before the end of the week, and the teacher loses the leisure for thought and recreation that are so essential to give freshness to his work. The obvious remedy is to pay more adequate salaries. No man becomes a teacher to make monej 7 . If he wanted wealth he would go elsewhere for it. Men usually start teaching because they have a special inclination and aptitude for it. But if good men are to be kept in the profession it must be made possible for them to devote themselves to their work without any haunting fear of leaving their families in poverty. Nurses are scandalously overworked and underpaid. Why? They love their work, and are therefore taken advantage of. Is it not something the same with the teacher? All he asks is to be allowed to do his work under the most favourable conditions. His expenses are heavy. In order to keep up to date, for instance, he must buy all the newest books on his special subjects, and he should have time to study them. The difference is incalculable between the lessons a man gives when worn by long hours of incessant strain he hurries to meet bis class and those the same man delights to give when he has thought out every detail of his subject. Other countries realize more than
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we do.that any opportunities for thought and study that are given to a teacher will be well repaid by the enhanced value of his work. Compare, for instance, the salaries paid to secondary teachers in Chicago with those in force here. Board of Education of Chicago—Schedule of salaries : (1.) Principals of elementary schools- —Lower group —First year $1,800, ninth and subsequent years $2,600j upper group —First year $2,700, fourteenth and subsequent years $3,500. (2.) Teachers in high schools (for teachers holding general certificates) —Lower group —First year $1,000, seventh and subsequent years $1,600. Schedule as amended (1912): Upper group — First year $1,700, second year $1,800, third year $1,900, fourth year $2,000, fifth year $2,100, sixth year $2,200, seventh' year $2,300, eighth year $2,400, ninth year $2,500, tenth and subsequent years $2,600. Thus an assistant in a high school of the upper group starts with a salary of over £350, and in the tenth year of his service receives over £540. How favourably these figures compare with those in force here! At Wellington College in 1911 the salaries ranged from £100 to £300. Thus after thirty years' service our Chief Assistant was getting £50 less than a beginner was receiving in Chicago. Two possible ways present themselves in which salaries might be improved. One is to increase considerably the size of each class. Teachers would face this willingly if it would bring about the amelioration they desire, but there can be no doubt that it would impair the efficiency of the schools. The other is for the Government to grant to governing bodies of secondary schools a higher capitation for each free scholar. How this may be done without materially increasing the cost or diminishing the value of the system I shall venture to suggest when considering the free-place system. Before leaving the question of salaries I feel impelled as a parent of primary scholars to protest against the staffs and salaries in primary schools being dependent on the average attendance. The objections to this are so manifest and have been so frequently pointed out that I need not repeat them, but will only refer to the dilemma of a parent who, when colds are prevalent and the weather bad, feels that his children would be much better at home, and yet cannot keep them there without doing an injury to the school and the teachers. Superannuation : The value of the superannuation scheme to the secondary teacher is most seriously discounted by the provision that the benefits are to be calculated on the salary received during the last three years of service, 'this chaiislcs the whole character of the system from one of thrifty insurance to one in which the gambling element is unpleasantly pronounced. We have to stake everything on the last three years, and our experience shows that for the vast majority there are no last three years. Some statistics we collected show that of secondary assistants less than 3 per cent, reach the age of fifty, and less than 1 per cent, the age of sixty, in the service. In the report of the Teachers' Superannuation Fund, 1911, the names of five men are recorded as receiving the benefits of superannuation in connection with secondary schools, but of these two were janitors, two were secretaries of governing bodies, and only one a secondary teacher. One never hears any reason why teachers should be treated so much less generously than members of the Civil Service. The facts point exactly the other way. While teachers leave the service, or before reaching the retiring-age succumb to the strenuous life, members of the Civil Service more usually live to reap the benefits of superannuation. Again, secondary teachers are at a disadvantage compared even with those in primary schools in that they begin teaching much later and enjoy to a much smaller degree security of tenure. This will probably be remedied to a great extent in the near future now that secondai:y teachers are permitted to use the Court of Appeal, but a technical flaw in the Act prevents the full use of this privilege outside of Wellington. It is hoped that this error will be corrected during the coming session of Parliament, but it is not likely that secondary teachers will ever attain complete security of tenure. Secondary teachers are expected to take an active part in the outside life of the school. Some manage cadet companies; some look after games; some take charge of laboratories; some teacli swimming, ambulance work, and so on. When owing to advancing years a teacher finds that lie can no longer run with impunity about the wet ground as referee in a football match, or stand the strain of any of his other extra duties, he becomes to that extent at least of less value to his school. The governing body may be excused for wishing to replace him by a younger and more active man, and he himself may be willing to accept a lesser remuneration in return for lighter work ; but that that acceptance should carry with it the loss of those benefits of superannuation to gain which lie has for so many years contributed from his hard-won earnings is most unjust. If this Commission is instrumental in removing this blot from our superannuation system it will earn the gratitude of teachers throughout the Dominion, and will, by men to remain in the service, greatly benefit the schools. Free-place : I thoroughly approve of the principle of the free-place system, but think the administration could be improved in two ways —first, by restricting the benefits to those who show some decided aptitude to profit by it; and, secondly, by paying a much higher capitation for those selected. Of the free-place new boys at the Coljege I meet only the very best, whom I teach in mathematics and science. In arithmetic I find them quick and accurate. Frequently they can give no reason for the steps they take, and would rather dash off twenty sums than set one out carefully and neatly; but they generally succeed in finding the correct answers. In algebra and geometry, which are new to them, they make rapid progress. In science they have done very little formal work, but they are bright and keen and work with avidity. These boys seem thoroughly well fitted to take a secondary course with profit to themselves and their country. Those at the other end of the scale, however, are, I believe, in a very different position, and the benefit that they can derive from a secondary course is open to serious question. If it is found impossible to increase the total expenditure on the free-place system 1 would suggest that the entrance examination be made a much more stringent test, and that the money thus saved be utilized in paying a higher capitation for those selected. It is very desirable that some means should be devised to encourage the brighter free scholars to stay longer at the secondary schools. We have in Wellington (as shown in Table K2 of the Report on Secondary Education for 1910)
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much greater difficulty in keeping the free scholars until they have completed their course than schools in other centres. This is partly due to the number of cadets required in the publicDepartments. The specially bright boys leave us at all times throughout the year to take up work in the city. The provision that a free place is not tenable with a scholarship of more than £10 leads to some curious anomalies. In our Sixth Form five boys who have earned free places .on-matriculation have also won scholarships. One has a£4 scholarship :he draws it all. A second has a £10 scholarship :he draws the full £10. A third has a £15 scholarship :he draws £3 only. Two others hold £20 scholarships : they draw only £8 2s. 3d. each. Examinations and mental strain : It is often said that we have too many examinations, and that the constant strain of preparing for them is a menace to the health of the pupils. I am convinced that the great majority of College boys are in no danger whatever in this respect, but 1 must acknowledge that one or two cases come under my notice nearly every year in which boys have to be warned repeatedly not to work too hard, and in spite of this some break down from the excessive strain. The boys with the brightest intellects and most ambition sometimes have not the physique to attain their ends. It would perhaps be well to eliminate the competitive element from the Junior University Scholarship Examination, 'the candidates might be grouped into three classes — (1) scholars; (2) those who pass with distinction; (3) those who pass Matriculation on the Scholarship Examination. The standard for scholars might be kept as high as it is now, and yet there would be less strain in striving for a first class than in endeavouring to be first amongst the scholars. Co-ordination of different branches of education : I wish to mention one instance only of the want of co-ordination between the different brandies of the educational system. Wellington College has established recently two well-equipped science laboratories, one for physics (electricity and magnetism) and one for chemistry. At the last meeting of the University Senate mechanics was made a compulsory subject for all who take physical science in the University Matriculation Examination, and by the same regulation it was made impossible to take both chemistry and electricity and magnetism. This regulation. comes into force next year, and necessitates an immediate change in the work of a number of our forms, and threatens further to disorganize the science work of the school for the next four years. The syllabus of the SeniorFree Place Examination and that of Matriculation taken together make it much easier for schools to succeed in preparing pupils for the examinations if they confine their science work to physical measurements, mechanics, heat and light. This course is decidedly easier for the teacher, but it involves a serious loss to the pupil. Of the discarded sciences chemistry is excellently suited for experimental treatment in, the lower forms of a secondary school. Boys of thirteen or fourteen acquire scientific habits and expertness of manipulation much more readily than they would do a few years later, and they find the subject full of living interest. Electricity is pre-eminently the science of modern life, and boys delight in it and are very ready to recognize its importance. Instead of these two we are driven to substitute mechanics, a science for too abstract to be studied profitably until boys reach the higher forms, and heat, the one science in which it is difficult to arouse enthusiasm. Reasonable notice should be given of impending changes of such great and far-reaching importance, and before they are carried into effect most careful consideration should be given to their probable effects. 3. Mr. Wells] As to the last point, the amendment of the regulations lies with the University Senate? —Yes. I was only suggesting some co-ordination of the different branches to prevent a sudden change in the middle of the year like that. I did not receive notice of the change until six weeks ago, and we had to change our work, in the middle of the year. 4. Do you think there should be a colonial scale of salaries for secondary-school teachers? —1 think it might be difficult to work, but I think some minimum would be a decided advantage. 5. Do you think there should be an annual increment? —Yes, that would be of great benefit to teachers, and so increase the efficiency of the schools. 6. You suggested that money might be saved by making the Free Place Examination more stringent, and that the money so saved might go towards increasing salaries, but what would you propose to do with the pupils who fail to pass that Free Place Examination?— With a harder examination I think only those not ready 7 for a secondary course would be excluded. 7. Do you not think they should go to a technical school?— Certainly, if they arc ready for that. 8. You recognize they should go on further if possible?— Yes; but we felt that many of them would be much better with another year at a primary school. They are not ready for us when they come. 9. My point is that these boys should receive a further training either in a secondary or technical school, and consequently the saving would not be as great as you anticipated?— Perhaps not; but we think they ought to remain in the primary school for another year, and even then I am not sure that a, secondary- course is suitable for a great many of the boys. Th 6 fact that many come to us for so short a time shows that it is really not for a secondary education that they come. We have great difficulty in keeping them until they have completed their secondary course. 10. You think a good many pupils leave the secondary schools before they have been there long enough to receive much benefit from fhe teaching?— Yes. They start new subjects, and if they leave before the end of the first year they- have hardly had an opportunity to go far enough in the new subjects to benefit very much by them. 11. Do you not think that the teacher of the primary school from which these boys came should be able to give valuable advice as to whether a boy would really benefit from a secondaryschool training? —Certainly. 12. Do you think it would be any advantage to have his opinion indorsed on the entrance form of the candidate?—l think that would be a good thing.
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13. Do you think secondary-school teachers should go through a course of training?— Yes, 1 think it would be an advantage, but T do not think it would be good to allow it to interfere with their University studies. In secondary schools a good deal of specialization must take place, and I think to specialize to the greatest advantage a teacher needs to have carried his special subject to the University, so that it seems to me the University- is almost of more importance to him than the training college. 14. Is not some training in the methods and principles of teaching of very great importance to a secondary-school teacher, just as it is to the primary-school teacher?— Yes, I think it would be of advantage to go through a short course in a training college coupled with a short observation course at an approved secondary 7 school. 15. Mr. Davidson] Do you think that if primary and secondary education were under the general control of one body it would tend to make the co-ordination of the system more complete?— Yes, I think so, but the body would have to be very carefully chosen. It would be necessary to have men on it who thoroughly understood each system. 16. Assuming that such a body were carefully constituted you think it would be an advantage? —Yes. 17. And you think it would lead to greater stability in the salaries of secondary-school teachers and greater security in their positions?— Yes, I think it very likely. My chief point about the insecurity 7of position is that in secondary-school work so much depends on the outside life of the school. 18. Do you know of many secondary-school teachers who have left the teaching profession in order to enter other walks of life?— Yes; it is quite a regular thing for us to have young men come for a few years and then take to law. 19. If the teaching profession were made more attractive do you think there would be less desire to leave the profession?—l think so, certainly. 20. Referring to the question of superannuation, what would y 7 ou suggest instead of computing the retiring-allowance on the last three years of service? —I understand that in the other branches of the service it is computed on the best three years of salary. I think that provision would be fair for the teachers. 21. Do you not think it would be fairer still if the retiring-allowances under all the schemes were based upon the average salary during the years of service? —Certainly, if the scale were raised, that is the most satisfactory system of all. 22. Have you any idea of the average age at which teachers enter the service in secondaryschools ? —Most enter at twenty 7 -one or twenty-three years of age, unless they 7 have done some primary-school work. 23. Supposing the average age to be twenty-three, after thirty years' service the teacher would be only fifty-three, and you know that at fifty-five, under the provisions of section 12, teachers may retire? —Yes, but thev 7 count fewer years of service in reckoning superannuation. 24. What period of service would y 7 ou suggest?—As we start so much later I think we might have five years' less service required. 25. Mr. Pirani] On what basis do you think the salaries of primary-school teachers should be paid? —I think the roll number would be the better thing to go upon. 26. Do you think if secondary education was placed under the Education Boards as well as primary and technical education that that would be an improvement on the present system?— I do not know. We are perfectly satisfied with the government of our College except that the governing body have not enough funds to work upon. 27. Have yon looked into the question as to the amount of funds your Board of Governors has at their disposal?— Yes. 28. Are you aware that they have £11,343 a year available for the running of the two Colleges, and that out of that the small sum of £2,000 is paid in salaries for the Girls' College, leaving for the Boys' College over £9,300 : do you think that sum is too small to enable fair salaries to be paid to the teachers? —I have the assurance of the Board of Governors that they have no more to spare than they give us. I think there are some expenses that might be saved. For instance, there is a large expenditure on stationery which I believe arose in this way : while the boys were paying fees stationery was included in the fees, and the pupils were provided with blocks, and so on. When the free-pj-ace system was introduced there were only a few free scholars to start with, but, though they have increased in number they received and are still receiving free stationery. I think now that parents get the education free they might be expected to provide the stationery themselves. 29. Do you not see that your Board of Governors has over £6,000 of annual income over and above the amount of the teachers' salaries?—l am not sure whether they are fully aware what they are entitled to deduct. 30. The balance-sheet of last year shows that the total income from Wellington College and the Girls' High School was £16,167. Out of that there was spent for buildings and furniture, &c, £5,050, leaving a balance of over £11,000 for administration expenses, salaries, &c. Out of that £11,000 there was paid in salaries for the Girls' High School £2,075. Evidently, then, the money goes to Wellington College. T see that the salaries paid there totalled £4,470, or an average of £245 per teacher. Now, if the management, of your Board is good management, what becomes of that £6,000? —I do not see how they could save much. 31. Having all this in view, do you think it is a fair thing to ask the State to contribute more to the Wellington College?—T think the State's contribution of £10-odd is not sufficient to provide reasonable salaries for a secondary school. 32. What do you think ought to provide reasonable salaries? You will see that building is separately provided for by a grant of £4,400 for building, furniture, <fee, outside that £10
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a head? —The expenditure in the balance-sheet that I have seems to be mostly 7 for purchases and new works, repayment of loan, fencing, and repairs. - 33. But you got a special grant for that outside the free-place money?—l do not wish to criticize the administration of the Board. 34. But you criticized the State for not paying sufficient money for the work. Surely you ought to have taken into account what money is paid and how it is spent before you venture to say it is not sufficient? —I think that, if you multiply the £10 by 25, which is considered the maximum class —for science teaching, anyhow—that comes to only a little over £250 of income, and a great deal of that must go in expenses with regard to the upkeep of the school. That shows that the amount the State provides for salaries is only a moderate amount. 35. Do you not know that that is not the amount provided for salaries —that there is an endowment which brings in a revenue of £4,100 per annum? —But the net annual income and the State contribution together only make up £12 14s. per pupil. 36. Do you not think that that should be sufficient?—lf that could be devoted to salaries it would be an improvement, but even then I do not think it would be enough. 37. In view of the fact that at the end of the year your Board had a credit balance of £637, do you not think that the Board ought to be applied to to increase salaries before the State is appealed to? —But they had a balance at the beginning of the year of £596. They must keep a little for current expenses. 38. No; they had a debit, balance at the beginning of the previous year of £399? —I have only the 1910 balance-sheet. 39. So that they recovered nearly £1,000 during the year, of which they had £637 still left. Do you not think that £637 would make a considerable addition to the salaries of the underpaid teachers? —If it had been clear gain, but probably they would require it in the first few months of the year. 40. Do they 7 not get their income from the reserves and from the Government in the first few months of the year ?—lf they have a few hundred pounds over one year it only makes it a little easier to work the next year. This year they have increased the maximum salary from £300 to £310. That shows that they are anxious to improve the position. 41. Do you think the system of making a boardinghouse-keeper of the Principal is a proper sy 7 stem?—I do not know that T do, but T think that any one who has charge of a boarding establishment such as that of Wellington College thoroughly earns anything he makes out of it. 42. How many boarders are there?— About sixty-odd. There were more until this year, but at present there is only provision for one bouse. Mr. Firth being away they have had to refuse a great number. 43. Would it not, be more in keeping with the Principal's position that he should devote his attention to the school and not to the care of the boys, and that the boarding establishment should be under a competent matron or master?— Some master would have to take it, and the work that looking after it entails would entitle that master to a salary commensurate with what the headmaster makes out of it. 44. If the appointment of a competent man and competent matron at a good salary resulted in a profit of £1,600 a year for sixty pupils, could not that money be spent in increasing the salaries of the teachers instead of it going to one individual?—We should be very glad to have it; but I feel that the headmaster should receive quite a different salary if he is expected to take charge of the boarders and is not to take the profit. 45. What salary would you say the Principal should receive in that case?—l should think that £1,200 or £1,500 would not be too much. 46. What salary is he paid now? —£500, I believe. 47. Are you aware that in a secondary school under the management of an Education Board a woman is paid £600 a year as Principal?-—! believe that our headmaster has been offered more by another school. 48. Do you mean that he made so much out of the boarders that he did not accept it?—T would not put it that way. He spends a great deal upon the grounds. 49. T am asking you whether it is a proper system, because in a big institution like the Wanganui Collegiate School they have abandoned that system with very satisfactory 7 results, and in the Wanganui Girls' High School, offe of the largest institutions of the kind in New Zealand, they have abandoned it. Would it not be very much better with regard to your institution for the Governors to take over the boarding institution than carry on the existing system? Tf fhe income is as stated, and taking all the surroundings, do you not think it is possible that a bettersystem of management might be devised by which the management expenses could be reduced, and better salaries paid to the teachers out of the income of the College?— But there must be great expense on the actual running of the College apart from the teachers. 50. Suppose the total expenses of running the College outside the school itself—for advertising, stationery, secretary, and clerks—could be carried out by the Education Board for £900 a year, do you not think it could be done by your Board of Governors, who have nothing else to do but look after the expenses, for a similar sum?—Tn the balance-sheet T have before me the management, salaries, and other expenses come to only £284. 51. But there are a lot of other items, such as advertising, printing, and stationery. The total cost of management is £328 4s. 6d. outside of what T have mentioned? —That is not in the balance-sheet I have. 52. Do you not think that if it was merged in fhe general education system of the Dominion. and managed along with the primary schools, the office expenses could be considerably curtaiW —T certainly think some system of co-ordination might be devised that would save expense and increase efficiency.
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53. When you speak of the length of life of the teachers, 1 suppose you refer to secondaryschool teachers? —1 think the primary-school teachers are more likely to reach the retiring-age than secondary-school teachers. 54. If a system of education were evolved consisting of a Council of Education, with enlarged Education Boards for enlarged districts, and under them School Boards for the separate districts to manage primary, technical, and secondary education, do you think that such a system would provide an efficient system of management?—l have not considered the matter carefully, but it seems to me quite reasonable that it should. 55. With the inspectorate under the Central Council instead of local Boards? —Yes. 56. Mr. Hogben] Do you know-how long the teachers stay in the secondary schools of Chicago and New York?— No. 57. You do not know that there is no prospect of their ever getting high salaries there? —I do not know why they should not. 58. You do not know that very few teachers stay longer than two years in any of the secondary schools of the United States? —That state of things is apparently coming here. W T e have two men waiting to leave as soon as they can be replaced. The staff is changing in a way that was not the case some years ago. 59. Have you ever looked through any list of salaries actually paid to assistants in the north of America? —According to what I have here the salary for the first year is about £350 —1,700 dollars. That is in the highest grade. 60. Do you know the strength of the school in which that person teaches? It must be either Rockwood or Inglewood. Do you know the duties of the person who receives that salary?—He is a first-year assistant. 61. Do you know that he may be, head of a department?— The lower group of teachers start at 1,000 dollars. In his seventh year he gets 1,600 dollars. Here, after thirty years' service, the maximum salary is £300. 62. Do you know what first-grade assistants are in Chicago and New York? —I should saythat here in New Zealand institutions like Wellington College and the Auckland Grammar Schools would correspond with first-grade schools. 63. Are there any first-grade assistants who are not heads of departments?— Well, I am head of two separate departments, and the maximum for any assistant here at present is £310. 64. You do not know the duties attached to those departments in America? —No, but I think a secondary teacher in New Zealand would be prepared to undertake them. 65. You do not know the constitution of the high schools to which your figures refer? —I do not know any details, but I know that this scale of salaries has been approved. 66. When you speak of the teachers of secondary schools leaving earlier than the retiringage, do you mean that if the} 7 retire earlier than sixty-five they get no superannuation allowance? —Unless they have served a sufficient number of years the} 7 get back only what they have paid in, without interest, 67. What do you call "earlier than the retiring-age "? —Suppose a man has been teaching for twenty years, and retires at forty-three. 68. Does a primary-school teacher who has been teaching for twenty years and retires at forty-three get any retiring-allowance unless he is medically unfit? —But the primary-school teacher as a rule starts at an earlier age than the secondary teacher. 69. Do you know the extended provisions of section 12 of the Superannuation Amendment Act, 1908, as amended in 1910? —I think so. I know that 1 have been teaching since 1882, yet if I were to retire now I would only get back what I have paid in, without interest, . 70. Can a primary-school teacher acquire a right to retire at a less age than fifty-five unless he has taught for forty years ?—A primary-school teacher who started at fifteen will have taught for forty years when he has reached fifty-five. Primary teachers can retire at thirty years under certain conditions. 71. You mean over fifty-five? —My point is that secondary teachers have to leave the service at all kinds of ages through becoming unfit to do open-air duties and are therefore of reduced value to the school, and in such circumstances they lose the benefits of superannuation. 72. Do you know that a man who is fifty 7 -five, and has served for thirty years, can under the extended provisions retire and receive a retiring-allowance?—lf he has served for thirty years. Ido not object to any of those provisions. The only point I object to is that relating to the calculation on the last, three years' salary. If that were amended we should have very little to object to, but I have pointed out as a kind of side-issue that we start much later in life than the primary teachers, and we generally serve for a less number of years. 73. With regard to scholarships over £10, could not the Board of Governors give the winner a .free place as part of the value of the scholarship, and so secure the value to him?— But the money was given under certain conditions, which were fixed long before the free-place system came in. 74. Could not the Board charge the boy half-fees, and let the boy pay- the reduced amount out of the scholarship? —He has to pay them out of the scholarship now, and instead of getting £20 he gets only £8. 75. Could not the Board make a charge of £10 to the holder of a £20 scholarship? —But if the boy has won a £20 scholarship I think it would be fairer that he should get it, 76. Do you think it is desirable to pay high scholarships to day boys to bribe them to come to school? —I think that amounts won by boys in that way are always well expended. The boys always get more books. 77. Do you require them to spend the balance on books? —We do not require it. 78. Do they actually spend the balance in that way?—l do not know how they spend it,
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79. When you say that some of the boys who win junior free places should continue their course at a technical school—that they are not fit for the secondary course —what do you mean by " the secondary course ": do you include the vocational course? —I was thinking of the general course. 80. Do you not think that a school of the size of yours should supply a vocational course, leading up to engineering and agriculture? —That would entail provision for an increased staff, as there is difficulty now in coping with the one course. It would increase the cost very much, and decrease the efficiency of the school. 81. But if you took boys away from the present course you would not need so-large a staff for the general course? —If you divide the school up into a number of different sections you must have an increased staff. 82. If yon take boys from the Latin classes cannot you replace one of the Latin teachers by an instructor in agriculture? —If you have twenty-five or thirty who want instruction in agriculture, Yes; but if you have half a dozen who want one thing and another half-dozen who want another you cannot. 83. If you have a sufficient number taking the vocational course is it not better that it should be taken in a secondary school? —If the school is large enough. I do not think the instruction w 7 ould be efficient without a very large school indeed. 84. Do you know that Dr. Gow, of Westminster School, considers 250 enough for a vocational course? —No. Elizabeth Matilda Rowley examined on oath. (No. 203.) 1. The Chairman] What is your position ?—I am an assistant teacher at the Wellington Girls' High School, where I have been engaged for about three months. Prior to that period I was teaching in the district high school department of a primary school. Altogether I have been teaching for twentyfour years, part of the time at primary work and the rest at secondary. I hold the diploma of M.A. of the New Zealand University, and I am graded by the Department Al. SSI 2. What matter do you desire to bring before the Commission ? —The subject I wish to bringbefore your notice is one of vital importance to our education system, and yet it is one to which little attention has hitherto been given. I allude to the conditions of some of our primary-school buildings. Now, as a child spends nearly half of his waking hours at school, the hygienic conditions of the buildings will greatly influence his future life. Dr. Lyster, in his " School Hygiene," says, "It is during the dawn of life that lasting mental impressions are made, and the body so affected that the framework and delicate machinery of the future man is made or marred. The form of the body, the shape of the limbs, development of the organs, cultivation of the senses may be easily interfered with during childhood. How many curved spines are due to a wrong position of sitting at school ! How many eyes have been injured by small print, bad lighting, or holding a book at a wrong angle ! How many lives are ruined by the effect of preventable disease caused by bad ventilation ! " Several medical experts have given evidence before this Commission as to the faults in our school system, and as a teacher who has been closely engaged in our public schools for over twenty years I wish to point out the injurious results of the conditions under which some of our primary scholars are working. These conditions are in reference to (1) lighting, (2) cleaning, (3) heating, (4) ventilation and other hygienic matters. (1.) As regards lighting, I would point out that the window-space is often insufficient to light a class-room on dull days, and the amount of light of the room is often reduced by the want of being frequently cleaned. On the other hand, direct sunlight should not be allowed to fall on the desks, but blinds should be provided to prevent this, and they should roll from the bottom upwards instead of from the top, so that the strong light may be shut off from the desks only and not shut out altogether, as is the case when the blinds roll downwards ; also, windows on the north side of schools should be provided with outside adjustable screens to shut out the overpowering heat and light of summer weather. (2.) It is reported that Dr. Truby King stressed the extreme importance of teaching the necessity for cleanliness. I would point out in this respect that if our school buildings were kept scrupulously clean this in itself would be one of the best lessons for the children. Under present conditions the method of cleaning the rooms not only fails to set the example for the lesson to the children, but is a serious menace to their health. The method usually followed is that the various rooms and passages are daily swept by the janitor —an unpleasant and injurious task for him, for clouds of dust are raised in the process, and much of this remains to lodge on available objects in the rooms. Hovv many 7 microbes must there be among this dust waiting to do mischief to the unfortunate children ! Usually only once in three months the building is scrubbed. The condition of some of our schools in this respect is deplorable, and must be extremely detrimental to the health of teachers and pupils alike. The people of New Zealand are being taught how to take better care of infant-life, yet the children's health is constantly endangered in our public schools. If we had such buildings for our schools as we ought to have, and such as are actually provided in other countries, there would be fewer patients in our children's hospitals, and less work for our medical practitioners and inspectors. A suggestion was recently made by a health expert in regard to improving the cleanliness of the schools that they should be " spring-cleaned " once a week instead of once in about three months, as is often the case. The desks also, unless regularly cleaned, become microbe gatherers. Kerosene or paraffin has been suggested as the best thing for the purpose, as it does not remove the varnish. And if vacuum cleaners could be used to remove the dust, as suggested by Dr. Frengley, much of the danger from the dust would be removed. (3.) Heating : The fires usually supplied in class-rooms are often totally inadequate as a means of warming the rooms in cold weather, as only the children near receive the benefit, and the rest are subjected to a physical strain in trying to resist the cold while sitting still at their tasks. To supplement the heat supplied by the fire I would suggest for city schools that electric radiators
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be placed atjthe end of the room opposite tlie fire, and that all rooms be provided with thermometers, so that as nearly|as possible an even standard of heat should|be kept up throughout the room. Dr. McLean has stated that the temperature should be about 65° Fahr. In very cold weather fires should be lit at least an hour before the children assemble, and the children should not be required to sit still for so long a period as one hour and a half. In regard to the heating of schoolrooms, I may quote the words of Professor Shaw, of New York University : " If from any cause the temperature of the room falls below 60° Fahr. the pupils should be immediately dismissed from the room." (4.) Ventilation : Dr. Truby King in his evidence said, " Many of the school buildings in the matter of ventilation were nothing more or less than sealed boxes." Let me point out the effects of such a state of affairs by quoting the words of Dr. Lyster : " Living in a badly ventilated room for a few hours produces drowsiness and headache, a sense of oppression and discomfort, slowing of the heart's action and quickening of respiration, and it interferes greatly with the efficiency of both the teacher and the scholars. The power of concentration on the part of the scholars is also greatly decreased. Unfortunately the evil does not stop here. A lowering of the vitality results, and there is an increased tendency to contract diseases of all kinds. Under such conditions consumption very often occurs, and infectious diseases, when once started, spread very rapidly. Ansemia, loss of appetite, and impairment of nutrition commonly result from bad ventilation." Another authority says, " The evidence which has accumulated in recent years as to the dissemination of certain diseases, particularly diphtheria, scarlet fever, and measles, in school class-rooms is quite conclusive as to the risk incurred in bringing together a number of children in a confined space. The risk of contagion would be very greatly decreased if the ventilation of our schools were brought up to a higher level. Shutting up children in badly ventilated rooms brings about a bodily condition which offers little or no resistance to invasion by the micro-organisms of disease." Now, as many of our schools are nothing better than sealed boxes, and this statement is only too true, what incalculable mischief is being wrought in carrying on the education of our children. No reform is more urgently needed than in this matter in some of our oldest schools, and even in the more modern buildings the ventilation is far from being adequate. For efficient ventilation outlets for foul air and inlets for fresh air should both be provided. It is a common practice to provide for the outlet only and to neglect the inlet. And as our ventilation is entirely supplied by the natural method, we find that either insufficient fresh air enters the room because there is no current of wind blowing towards the ventilation inlet (2,000 cubic feet of fresh air per hour is necessary for each child), or else wo find the air blowing in so forcibly as to create a draught injurious to the children. We need some means of regulating 'the supply of fresh air, so that the required 2,000 cubic feet per hour per child is supplied without causing injurious draughts. In America and in England the maximum velocity at which air should enter a room is 6 ft. per second — i.e., about four miles an hour. Anemometers should be used in all schools for calculating the amount of air entering a room, and also the velocity, and as Lyster says, " Systematic examination of the air of schools at all times of the day by the education medical officer should be regarded as essential, as it is only by such tests that the ventilation of any school can be regarded as sufficient or otherwise." Another urgent need, it seems to me, is the provision of suitable quarters for the children to play in and take their lunch in on rainy days. Under our present system what is to be done with the children in the interval between their arrival at school and assembling time—during recess for play and during recess for lunch ? There are two alternatives —(1) To send them outside to gain what shelter they can in the sheds; (2) to send them to their class-rooms. If we choose the latter alternative we are met with the difficulty of ventilation, for it is during the periods of recess that there is an opportunity of flooding the rooms with fresh air, and on wet days the ventilation difficulty is increased by the fact that sometimes the rain blows straight in at the window, which must therefore be kept closed. Then, too, as regards lunch period, is a room which has been occupied by a class of, say, forty children for about three hours a fit place for them to take their lunch in ? And, on the other hand, is a lunchroom a fit place for a class-room ? The law does not allow such a practice in a factory, and why should it be allowed in schools ? Then, taking the other alternative, suppose that the children are sent outside during recess periods —here we have the opposite extreme. A certain amount of accommodation is offered by the shelter-sheds, but these are only sheds, quite exposed to the weather along one side, and some of them are not even provided with seats. And you will find that not many of the boys who remain at school for lunch will stay jh such uninviting quarters for the whole of the lunch period. You will find some of them taking the friendly shelter of a neighbouring shop-verandah, and you will find many of them playing their games out in the rain. There is no need to point out the harm that must arise from such treatment of children. The harm to their health is quite evident, but besides this we are failing in one of the chief aims of our education system when we do not take better care of the children. And there are many days when it is not wet, but when there is a high wind, full of dust and grit, forcing its way into every nook and comer —is it fit then for boys and girls to take their lunch outside ? Something ought to be done to provide for this need. Perhaps a feasible solution of the difficulty would be to have fair-sized properly-closed-in rooms built in suitable places in the schoolground close to the school. They should be well lit, ventilated, and suitably warmed in the cold weather, and then verandahs should be placed round them, allowing a good large space for the children to run about, and the access to all such shelter should be under cover all the way from the main building. In conclusion, I would say in regard to some of our school buildings that the impoverished and sordid surroundings in which the children are brought up in some of our schools are a discredit to the country. The healthy physical life of the people is of the utmost importance to the country, and to attain this we should spare neither expense nor effort to enable the children to spend their school days under the best conditions it is possible to devise.
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Robert Darroch examined on oath. (No. 204.) 1. The Chairman.] What are your position and educational status ? —I have been headmaster of the Roseneath School, Wellington, for more than three years. Prior to that I taught for three years at the Mitchelltown School, and for eight years and a half I was first assistant at Te Aro School. My total service has extended over twenty-three years, and I hold a Dl certificate. 2. What matters do you propose to bring before us ?—As your Commission is nearing its close, and so little appears to have been said on the most important subject in the syllabus —viz., physical culture —that is by comparison with such questions as, for example, the salaries, I, as one who has made a special study of the health and physique of the child for the last twenty-three years, would crave your permission to say a few words. The teaching of physical culture in the past in our primary schools has been haphazard, unsystematic, and in many cases harmful, due no doubt in a large extent to ignorance on the part of teachers and to the action of dabblers and self-elected professors to one or other systems whose extravagant claims have done much to obscure the real educational value of neuro-muscular training. Exercise has so many points of contact with education, it is so intricately related to mental, moral, and social training, each of which alone is so partial and incomplete, that the progressive educationist is now compelled to study its bearing on all three. I would respectfully recommend to your Commission that a complete scheme of physical culture in our schools should be inaugurated under the three heads (1) deep breathing, (2) physical exercises, and (3) athletic games and contests. In deep breathing I would suggest such a system as Royd Garlick's. This system was approved of by a conference of New Zealand Inspectors held in Wellington some two or three years ago. In our schools very little is known about deep breathing and its wonderful tonic action. I was simply astounded at the general ignorance amongst teachers on the question when I recently addressed about eighty teachers at the Hastings camp, and these teachers embraced representatives from Wanganui, Palmerston North, Hawke's Bay, Gisborne, Wairarapa, and Wellington districts. It transpired that one man had been making his children do a certain so-called breathing exercise sixty-one times without a rest. In physical exercises such a course as is recommended by General Godley in his tables for the physical training of Territorials and Senior Cadets would form a good foundation. General Godley highly approves of this system and the Royd Garlick system of breathing, and has stated that he hopes soon to have thirty thousand doing these different exercises. I approve of the compulsory system of training on this ground alone. I would recommend organized games in our schools because of the specific mental and physical qualities which are developed by them —namely, increased powers of attention, will concentration, accuracy, alertness, quickness of perception, persaverance, reason, judgment, forbearance, patience, obedience, self-control, loyalty to leaders, selfdenial, submergence of self, grace, poise, suppleness, courage, strength, and endurance. The power to take a beating with a smile and to win without a display of triumph is soon acquired when a healthy spirit of sportsmanship prevails. Whilst physical exercises are necessary and good, athletic contests such as football, cricket, tennis, swimming, walking, running, skipping, and boxing are more beneficial to general health and vigour if judiciously pursued because they employ all the muscles. Set physical exercises fail to cultivate initiative. The will of the pupil is not freely and willingly exercised eitherfor personal or for social ends. It is under authority, passively submissive, or unwillingly dominated. It is generally agreed that if school life is to cultivate those aspects of intelligence and character that are necessary in the effective performance of the practical work of life that games and contests both of an individual and of a social character should form the main element in the course of physical training. If games are to form a real part of the school life playing-fields are desirable, and I contend that it is the duty of the State to provide adequate playground space. By enthusiastic teachers much can be done in a small space. I have seen 120 boys playing cricket under the supervision of four masters in a playground less than half an acre in extent. Games must be made compulsory except where a doctor's certificate orders otherwise, and all teachers must be in the playground at recess to organize, train, and supervise. Teachers should remember that teaching is a vocation and not a trade, and their work cannot be limited by the bell. The physical training of the girls should be under the control of women, and in this connection I would advocate equal pay for equal work. Whilst I am uncompromisingly opposed to the higher education of our girls as destroying the beautiful lines and curves of their figures, robbing them of that charm and elusiveness that has so long characterized their sex, and, most important of all, weakening their powers of motherhood, yet I do think their primary education up to, say r , the Matriculation is even more important than that of our boys, because they are the future mothers of the nation, and that the head of a girls' school should be paid loss than the head of a similar-sized boys' school is an everlasting disgrace to our enlightened democracy. Thoughts of teachers should be turned to that increasing evil of English games—professionalism. Sport should not be pursued as an end but as a means to an end. The habit of gathering in the grandstand Saturday after Saturday to watch gladiatorial displays of football, where satisfaction is not achieved unless blood is spilt, should be discouraged, and the construction of public golf-courses, as suggested by Dr. Cameron, should be vigorously demanded. I would respectfully stress this point of games properly organized, supervised, and controlled, and reported upon by our Inspectors as tending to the greater happiness of the children—and, first and foremost, children must be happy at school — and to the moral uplifting of all our children. Moral depravity exists in our schools, but nobody likes to inquire very much into it because it is such a distasteful subject. 3. Mr. Wells] Has anything been done in this district to train teachers in the way of giving ph} 7 sical exercises ? —To some extent. Occasionally during the year some expert, in the town will he called upon to give a set of lessons, probably extending over some months, but there has been nothing of a sufficiently systematic character. No particular course of breathing exercises, for example, has been taught to any set of teachers.
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4. Mr. Davidson] You say that the school life of a child should be happy. Do you think the children are happier at school to-day than they were ten or fifteen years ago ?—I certainly think so. 5. What do you mean when you state that moral depravity exists in our schools ? —I mean, for example, the use of bad language. I mean that if boys gather in a playground, as they will if they are not under proper supervision, they gather in little groups and indulge in immoral talk. I mean that they read unsuitable literature —for instance, of a class of " Comic Cuts " and publications of that kind which are not healthy for children. If they are not properly interested in games, and not supervised in the playground, they begin to call out to one another immoral expressions and suggestions. If the games are not under proper supervision you will find instructions placed on the walls to " Dump So-and-so." If they go to the gymnasiums for football preparation they are apt to learn all. sorts of dirty tricks in football. 6. The Chairman? Are not the gymnasiums often used by senior football teams? —Yes, to practise their games. 7. Mr. Davidson] Are such notices as you refer to posted on the school buildings ?—The particular notice that I mentioned is one that I saw myself on the wall of a school. 8. Is it not a reflection on the discipline of that school that such notices are allowed to be put up ?—That may be so. 9. Do you think that kind of thing is general ? —I am glad to say Ido not. 10. Mr. Pirani.} Will you name any school where you have seen the sort of thing you describe —the bad language, and so on ? —-I would not like to do such a thing. 11. Do you know much of what takes place in connection with school games ?—I have always been intimately connected with school games. For eight years and a half I was secretary of the Wellington Public Schools' Cricket Association, and I have also been president of the Cricket Association and the Football Association, 12. Is it not the practice in your school that a teacher must supervise the school-grounds while the children are there ? —The practice at my school is that every teacher is in the school-grounds during the recess and during dinner-time. They have their lunch in the school, and after that they are out with the children. There is always one teacher on duty there. 13. Does not that prevent the particular kind of talk you refer to ?—Yes, it is very effective. 14. And is not, that the rule in every decently conducted school ? —Yes. 15. Do you not think that under such a system it is possible for such matters as you complain of to obtain ? —That system is not always carried out. . I am speaking generally, for the whole Dominion. 16. But you are making a sweeping charge, the correctness of which I deny as far as my district is concerned. Any headmaster who allowed such a state of things as you describe would get instant dismissal in my district ? —Let me give some instances. I have taken a team of boys to play cricket. The opposing team has possibly been under the supervision of a young probationer, who has perhaps been only three months in his school, and who has very little authority over the boys. During the progress of the game I hear from the bank, not the boys actually playing, but others, taking the name of God in vain. Finally, when the side these boys are "barracking" for bids fair to win the match, the boy who has scored is unable to contain himself, and gives utterance to an expression which causes me to stop the game. 17. What is the cure for that sort of thing ?—Proper supervision. I say that it is the upperstandard teachers who should take the supervision of the children in their games, and not young probationers. 18. Is there not a regulation of the Wellington Board, requiring that a responsible teacher must be in charge of the games ?—I am not aware of any such regulation. We have a regulation under which a teacher must always be in charge of and taking part in the games of the boys in the playground. I have been speaking of a match played on a public ground. 19. Are there no special instructions from your Board as to teachers taking part in organized games ?—I do not think so. 20. Would it not be an incentive to teachers to do that if there were a system of promotion in which marks were specially given for work of the kind as well as for his teaching ability ? —I think marks given for that sort of work are probably more valuable than the marks assigned for other work, for it has greater effect upon the character of the children. 21. You think it would be to the advantage of the pupils that the tea.cher should get special encouragement to carry out his work efficiently in that direction ?—I do. I could quote a case of a man who holds a prominent place in a school in this city, who said to me that his school-work did not extend outside the school walls. I disagree with that view. 22. Have you studied any of the systems of promotion in foree —those in Auckland, Wanganui, and Taranaki ?—No. Personally I Ho not approve of a general scheme of promotion, because the teaching profession is not in the same class as any other profession. It is not a trade but a vocation, and the people who should be promoted in the profession are those who really love the work. 23. Take the Wanganui scheme—though that of Auckland is in some respects better—loo marks are awarded to the teacher as a maximum. There are 10 for service, 30 for teaching ability, 10 for organizing ability, 10 for discipline, 10 for attention to environment, which would include school games, 20 for educational standing, and 10 for personality. Do you not think that under such a scheme as that the interest of the teacher outside the actual work of teaching would be considerably quickened ? —I think so, but to my mind there are three departments to which you have not given sufficient marks —discipline, attention to environment, and personality. 24. But you think that some such scheme could possibly cause an improvement ?—I think it is very likely that it would.
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25. Mr. Davidson] Do I understand you to say that your remarks as to moral depravity apply to the Dommion'*generally—that you are in a position to speak for the Dominion ? —What I meant to .say was that I assume that our district is typical of the rest of the Dominion. It is idle for us to blink the fact that there is a certain amount of moral depravity, which is shown by the use of bad language. 26. Have you a right to assume that what exists in Wellington exists generally ?—Perhaps I have not. If I were pushed for proof I could not give it. I was simply assuming that ours would compare favourably with other districts, but I have come in contact with teachers from other districts, and I may state that we are inclined to shut our eyes to the fact that there is anything wrong with our schools from the moral point of view. We should acknowledge that there is room for improvement, and I contend that that improvement is to come through properly organized school games. 27. The Chairman] Does the sort of talk you speak of obtain inside the school-grounds ? —I have no knowledge of it, but I would not be egotistical enough to say that it never happens. If I am playing cricket on the Basin Reserve on a Wednesday afternoon, and it is not known that I am a teacher, I will find that there are boys behind me also playing, and I hear words such as I am complaining about, but I can find no teacher with the boys. If there were a teacher there it probably would not happen. 28. Mr. Pirani] Have you noticed any improvement during the last few years in the conduct of the children in the school playgrounds ?—Yes, I think there has been a great improvement. 29. Do you remember that some years ago there used to be fairly frequent scandals in connection with tho schools ? —I have not known definitely of any, but I have heard whispers about them. 30. Have you heard of anything of that sort for the last three or four years ?—I cannot truthfully say I have not. 31. Do you think there has been an increase or a decrease ?—I think there has been a decided decrease. 32. There is a better moral tone all round ?—Yes. 33. The Chairman] With regard to School Cadets, do you approve of the school-children being brought up under the military system —wearing uniform and shooting, and that sort of thing ?—I see no harm in the very mild sort of uniform that we have, and the carrying of the light rifle would not hurt any one. As to the shooting, we have brought it down to the Hazard targets, which make it really a sport, which is a thing we can well encourage. I think we require more physical work in connection with the Cadets. Major-General Alexander John Godley examined on oath. (No. 205.) 1. The Chairman] Your official position, General, is ?—General Officer Commanding the Forces of Now Zealand. 2. We will be glad to hear anything from you in re the matter of Cadets that will help us to come to a right conclusion ?—The difficulties that we experienced when we embarked seriously on the training of our Senior Cadets forced upon my notice the question of the Junior Cadets, with which, as you all know, I have nothing to do at all. I found that a good many of our difficulties arose from the Junior Cadets being under separate authority, the Education Department, and that consequently when they came to the Defence Department at the age of fourteen there was a lack of continuity in their training, and various other defects which came before me. I found that in some respects the training which the Junior Cadets received under the Education Department was not altogether suitable for their entry as Senior Cadets into the Defence Department. I found that the Junior Cadets were in some cases discontented on becoming Senior Cadets, and on investigating the causes I found that to a very great extent the joining of the Senior Cadets from the Junior Cadets meant to the Cadets going backward instead of forward, inasmuch that as Junior Cadets they had done more soldiering and more advanced military work than I proposed they should do as Senior Cadets. I then got the Junior Cadet syllabus, and, with Colonel Heard, who is the Director of Military Training and particularly responsible for the training part of our work, went into it very carefully, and I found that a syllabus was laid down for the instruction of the Junior Cadet —the little boy between the ages of twelve and fourteen—which I would have hesitated to apply not only to a Senior Cadet, but even to a Territorial soldier. It was so far-reaching and ambitious in its nature that really if the Junior Cadet learned the syllabus from cover to cover at the age of fourteen there was nothing left which I could teach him. Of course, that naturally gave the Junior Cadet, however much or little he may have acquired, a feeling of dissatisfaction when he was put to more elementary work in the Senior Cadets than he had hitherto been doing. In the Senior Cadets I do not allow anything higher in the way of military work than company training. The Junior Cadets were in the habit of doing battalion training, or rather that was laid down in the syllabus. In fact, an attempt was made to give them instruction in every part of the military art. They then had to go back to very elementary work, and to my mind the worst difficulty the Junior Cadet work made for us was that the boy when he came to us as a Senior Cadet had had a try at so much that there was nothing left for him to look forward to. He had had his rifle, he had done his shooting, he had had his drill, and had a shot at every sort of work in the field, and consequently he was blase. You may say that he was almost finished with his military training by the time when, to my mind, he should begin it. That made me think out the whole question very much. I talked it over with my staff and many other people, and I arrived at the deliberate conclusion, which I had always had rather in the back of my mind, that under fourteen years of age is too early for any boy to do any military training practically. Ido not think that a boy should start to do any real military training until he is fourteen. Whatever he does before that in the way of training should be entirely
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confined to physical training. There is no harm in his doing a little bit of drill, just enough to make it possible to apply his physical training properly, but it should be of the most absolutely elementary and simple nature, and nothing more than was absolutely necessary just to apply the physical training. I would like to emphasize the point I made with regard to the general scheme about leaving the boy something to look forward to in the way of military training. If you take him at twelve and put him under a separate authority which has only got him for two years, and which naturally wishes to make the best show it possibly can —and quite naturally too, and a good show is made —these boys are far too much soldiers when they come to us for training as Senior Cadets at the ago of fourteen. If I had these boys from the age of twelve, and it was necessary to give them military training, I should take good care that from the age of twelve to fourteen they had as little as possible ia the way of military training. That is apart from the question of whether it is right or not, but simply for the reason that I know I have to keep them up to the age of twonty-five, and I must leave them something to go on with as they gradually get older. The training cannot be given up at the age of fourteen, and therefore the boys must be kept back in their early stages and gradually given more and more just to whet their appetite for the work. That is what we are doing with the Senior Cadets. We do not allow the Senior Cadets to do much in the way of military training. We do not teach the Senior Cadets battalion drill. That is not done until they reach the Territorials, because you must have the thing progressive, and also leave the boys something to look forward to. I think also that it is bad for those small boys to do so much in the way of military training. I think it is bad for them to carry rifles. It is true they now only carry a toy rifle, which is light, and that makes a groat deal of difference ; still, I do nob think it is at all necessary. It is bad for them to carry any rifle that is of any weight at all, and even that toy rifle I think is absolutely unnecessary. I should imagine also, from the educational point of view, that the time the boy spends on military drill would be much better employed in learning something in the way of education. I repeat I think fourteen quite early enough for a boy to begin any kind of military training. If this system had not been introduced of having the two periods of Cadet training under two separate controls —from twelve to fourteen under the Education Department, and from fourteen to eighteen under the Defence Department —if, as in other countries, all Cadet training was under military control, my first step would have been to demilitarize the Junior Cadets. I would have kept them strictly to physical training. The putting of the Junior Cadets under the Education Department has had a directly opposite effect of what was intended. As I understand it, the Junior Cadets were put under the Education Department in order to protect them from being turned into soldiers at that tender age. The effect has been absolutely the opposite. A separate military organization has been set up over which I have no control, which logically I cannot recognize in any way because I have nothing to do with it, and at the age of fourteen the boy is handed over to me, and logically I cannot accept anything he has done up to that age because I know nothing about it. Logically, as I say, I know nothing of what a boy has done in the way of military training, and therefore I must start afresh at the age of fourteen. It does not affect us to any great extent, because we cannot recognize it in any way really ; but it puts the people who are concerned in it into a very false position, because they have the titles of officers, they wear the uniform of officers, and in every way carry out their work as officers, but they have no commissions as officers. They are not officers really. It is a purely bogus military organization. lam not saying this in any way from a feeling against the Junior Cadets. On the other hand, lam much interested in them and am always glad to help them, and I only regret I have not had more to do with them. But it is, of course, quite illogical and quite indefensible that any military organization should be set up independent of the head of the military forces. lam the head of these forces, rightly or wrongly, and it is ridiculous that a military organization should be set up independent of me. Ido not know that I have any moro to say, except that I believe very much in the Boy Scout training, and I think it could be applied both to the Junior and Senior Cadets to a very great extent beneficially—certain portions of it—with the object of getting them very much interested in all sorts of useful work in addition to the less interesting work of actual drill, physical training, and shooting, which is, of course, more strictly speaking military. Then again, with regard to the Junior Cadets, I might say that in Australia the Junior Cadets are not allowed to wear a uniform and are not given rifles. In fact, they are not allowed to do any military training except physical drill, and their law is the same as ours that a boy begins military training at the age of twelve ; but he cannot wear a uniform, or carry a rifle, or do anything except physical training until he reaches the age of fourteen. He then gets a uniform, which he has been able to look forward to since he was twelve, and at fourteen he starts his more proper military career. That, I think, is the right way. 3. You also think that the Cadets as a whole should be under your Department ?—As regards that I do not see the smallest objection to their being under the Education Department provided they do not do military work, but I have the strongest objection to their doing military work and having a separate organization ; and, more than that, expecting military recognition, which has happened in the case of the officers, and having independent military control. What I say is that they cannot have it both ways. If they are to have military recognition they must be under military control ; if they are not to be under military control they cannot reasonably expect to have military recognition. 4. Mr. Wells.] Supposing the Junior Cadets were under the control of the Defence Department, do you not think there would likely be a clashing of interests ?—I do not think there need be, but I take the reasons why they were put under the Education Department originally. 5. You realize that that is probably the view that would be taken of it by the teachers throughout the|Dominion*? — that, but there would be no reason for the'fear, because the military training would bejpractically nil. We have our instructors properly Jtrained drill, and I think the military authorities should be the authorities for the physical drill. That being so, the military authorities should see that the proper physical drill is taught in the schools. That is rather
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the point. Ido not see any objection to the Junior Cadets remaining under the Education Department. lam regarding it from the point of view of the relations of the two and the effect afterwards, but logically the same difficulty comes in when the boy comes to me at fourteen and I turn my physical-drill instructors on to him. I may then find that up to that time his physical drill has been altogether wrong. 6. W 7 ould it meet the case to have a scheme of physical drill drawn up after consultation with yourself, to be carr'ed out entirely by the Education Department ?—lt would meet my views perfectly ; but then again, I think, logically, that the head of the forces, whoever he is, should be responsible, in so far as it should be his duty to inspect and see that the drill was carried out. Otherwise he has no guarantee that these instructions have been properly carried out, and whether the physical training has been properly done. 7. You prefer that boys should do no rifle shooting at school, not even at a miniature rage ?—n I do not know that I would go so far as to bar it. 8. Do you not think it is advisable that a boy of twelve or fourteen should know how to handle a gun ? —I think it is quite time enough for him to do it when he comes to fourteen. We are giving the boys a pretty good dose of it—from twelve to twenty-five is a good long time—and my idea is to minimize it as much as possible at the start. 9. I take it you would not approve of camps for schoolboys ?—lt is a very difficult question to answer. Compulsory camps for boys are absolutely wrong ; but, on the other hand, if boys want to go into camp I would not prevent them from going. The Senior Cadets make a great outcry because they arc not allowed to go into camp. At the outset parents were afraid that the boys would bo compelled to go into camp, and now we find that one of the greatest complaints is that they are not allowed to go. 10. Do you not think that the late hours to which Boy Scouts are kept out is rather a weakness ? —That is so, but it is a matter rather of the organization. 11. Mr. Kirk] Have you any recommendations to make as to the system of physical training to be adopted by the boys ? —The system I have approved of is the system which obtains in the British army, and which is based on the Swedish system. We have published a little manual on physical training, and so far as I know I do not think there is anything in it which would not be applicable to the Junior Cadets. 12. Mr. Davidson] Could not physical training be left entirely in the hands of the primary-school teachers ? —lt could; but, as I say, there needs to be some inspection to make sure that it is done right. 13. You would not have the same kind of physical military training for these as you would have for the Senior Cadets ? —Yes. I think the principle of the physical training, whatever it may be, should be tho same. 14. Supposing you laid down a system of physical training suitable for the various gradations through the primary school, if that syllabus of work was drawn up by you or your officers all you wish would be the right of y r our inspectors to enter the schools and see that the teachers are carrying out the work satisfactorily ? —That is so. 15. Practically the Junior Cadets would be wiped out of existence ? — That would be my idea. As a matter of fact, a military officer now has the right of entry to the schools to see that the drill is properly done. That is the officer who is appointed officer of the Junior Cadets, but the absurd part of it is that this officer, although a military officer, is independent of military control. 16. Mr. Pirani] Do you think your Department should supervise the instruction of teachers who would take up this physical drill for the Junior Cadets ?—Logically we ought to, but we have our hands full already. 17. Given proper physical drill under the instruction of your Department, then you would be satisfied that fourteen years of age is quite enough for them to come into the ordinary Cadet routine ? —That is absolutely my idea. 18. Mr. Hogben] Do you think it is right that tho physical training of young growing children should be on the same system as that for those who have reached the age of puberty and who are coming into manhood ?- —I am not a physical-training expert myself, but lam led to believe that that is the accepted idea at Home. * 19. Is it the accepted doctrine of the authorities on school hygiene ? —I do not know. 20. Are they not more concerned with the growing child than the military authorities are ? — Yes, but I believe in Sweden and Switzerland they do have the same system for the little boy in school as for tho soldier in the army. 21. Tho same exorcises ? —With tremendous modifications, of course. I think there would have to be gradations of the system, but the principles would be the same. 22. Is it not said by high authorities in England that the military experts in physical training look at it from the point of view of the grown soldier and not from the point of view of the growing child ? —At Home we have not, unfortunately, got any universal training of Cadets, and therefore, of course, tho military authorities have nothing to do with any one outside of the grown man. I know that at tho military centres, such as Aldcrshot, the instructors in physical training who are trained under the military methods arc themselves in great demand for giving physical instruction to schoolboys. 23. You are aware that the Junior Cadets are not under the Education Department, although the Department is charged with their cost ? —I did not know it. 24. Tho Commandant of Junior Cadets is directly responsible to the Minister and not to the Department ? —That makes the position more absurd than ever. I had no idea that such was the case.
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25. One likely source of friction with your Department would be the formation of what are called Cadet-training officers' camps ? —They have applied to us for every kind of assistance. They had a camp at Napier the other day, and I lent them an officer to command it, though the camp was not under my control. 26. Would there not be a possibility of a boy of fourteen, even using a very small rifle, getting a kick which would make him nervous for some years afterwards ? —That is so. 27. Would you do away with the uniform the Junior Cadets have ? —Yes. I do not think any military organization is necessary in connection with the schools, and we want to leave them something to look forward to. 28. Supposing your advice was adopted, it would be desirable not to cool too suddenly the enthusiasm of these Cadets ? —Yes. I am all for doing these things by degrees. 29. With regard to the Boy Scout organization, it is very essential to maintain an esprit de corps even in the primary schools, and would it not tend to break that school esprit de corps if schoolboys belonged to organizations outside the school ?—lt is the Boy Scout methods I advocate, not the organization itself. Colonel Edward Severin Heard examined on oath. (No. 206.) 1. The Chairman] What is your status on the Defence Staff ? —I am Director of Staff Duties and Military Training. 2. Can you give the Commission any information on the subject of the training of Junior Cadets ? —I approach this subject of the training of Junior Cadets not as a soldier in this case, because, as the General has already said, he recommends the demilitarizing of the Junior Cadets, in which I also concur most thoroughly. It appears to me that outside the ordinary educational curriculum there are two directions in which the Junior Cadets could be trained with great advantage to themselves and to the country : one is the character of the training, which to a large extent is the basis of the Boy Scout training, and the other is the physical training. In regard to this physical training, people have an idea that it is military. There is nothing really military about it, or need not be. It is not merely that we in the army take it on for the good of the soldiers, but there are thousands of civilians who go in for phy-sical training simply for the good of their own bodies. The aim of this physical training, which is based on the Swedish system of physical exercises, is simply to produce a normal healthy body, not the abnormal development of certain muscles that a man requires whose objective is the lifting of weights and so on, and who may have good muscles for the work required and fall to pieces in a test on muscles of another part of the body. As I say, the physical training we have in view is merely to produce a normal healthy and strong body, and it is of such a nature that it could be modified to such an extent as to suit any person of any form of physique, from the smallest child up to the grown man. But the whole thing depends on the trainer and his knowledge of physical training. It is a fact that if an untrained or improperly trained instructor attempts to teach physical training he is very liable to do a very great deal of harm to those he attempts to train. That is the serious point about it : that no person should be allowed to instruct in physical exercises unless he himself is thoroughly competent to do so, because of the harm he may do to whoever it is he is training. As regards children between the ages of twelve and fourteen, the physical exercises laid down in our manual can be so modified as to suit the individual, and the instructor, by carefully examining the children, can see whether a child required less or more training than another. I have personally seen when passing schools in Wellington the teachers imparting physical training, and to my mind they are not doing much good, because the children have not their minds concentrated on what they are doing, and the bodies that they train are too large. There are too many pupils. In Switzerland Ido not think they have Senior and Junior Cadets, but they have certain courses of training for children between certain ages. Our system is an imitation to a certain extent of the Swiss military system. I have here a text-book on the Swiss systt m, and I would direct the attention of the Commission to it. After describing what is essential for yout 1 s in the way of physical exercises the book says, " These instructions are given by the schoolmasters who are trained and qualified as gymnastic instructors. The cantons have to provide the necessary gymnasia and apparatus in the neighbourhood of the schools." This system that we have does not require any appliances whatever—nothing in the form of dumb-bells or anything of that sort. All that is recommended is that the children shall have something to hold in their hands, as that tends to concentrate their attention on their work. The exercises they do should be very simple and qi ite elementary. There is no need to teach military history in any technical form, hut such things as history of wars in the past and the great deeds of the Empire, the wars that have brought the Empire into existence, and so on, should be given attention to. People may say that this will give them military ideas and produce militarism. Ido not see why it should. Children are always very interested in that kind of history, and I think it would be well to include something like that in the curriculum of the schools. It, of course, goes hand-in-hand with English history. 3. Mr. Kirk] Have you seen the book of instruction containing the syllabus of physical training for the London schools ? —Yes ; it is based on the Swedish system, and is very much the same as ours. The diagrams it gives would be increased in value if they also included diagrams of the incorrect position in which they do the, various exercises. 4. Do you think good work might be done if a book somewhat similar to this London book were introduced into our schools and the teachers given instructions as to how to carry out the instructions of the book ? —Books of this kind are not necessary. All that would be necessary would be to take a certain number of elementary exercises and produce a little pamphlet showing the correct position and the, incorrect position. Then, of course, the instructors must be instructed first of all. I think the present military Junior Cadet system costs a good deal of money, and if done away with that money
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could be utilized in paying a lot of qualified instructors who would go round the country instructing the school-teachers and making them fit for the duties they would have to perform. 5. Do you think that, so far as the Senior Cadets are concerned, one or two pages of the Military Journal might be used with advantage for them, so that they may be much more inspired with the history of the past than they are ?—That is a very good suggestion, and I will act upon it. It ought to have struck me before. 6. Mr. Davidson] I suppose you know that the Navy League and League of Empire journals, and books like " Deeds that Won the Empire" and such, are in the school libraries ? —lt should'not be left to the boy to take the book from the library, but it should be brought to him. 7. Are you aware that it forms part of the syllabus in history ?—I was not aware of it. 8. And in that way we are carrying out what you suggest ?—That will be so. 9. Have you seen the School Journal which is distributed monthly to every school in the Dominion ? —I should like to see a, copy very much. 10. You consider that the £8,000 a year we are spending on the Junior Cadets would be more wisely spent on physical training ?—Most decidedly. 11. You do not anticipate any friction regarding the coming into the schools of officers who are not under the Education Department ?—I propose that these instructors would have classes of teachers and instruct the teachers, but as regards the ultimate supervision or inspection of the schools to see if the teachers carry out the work properly I am not prepared to say anything—that, of course, is the General's part. Ido not see any necessity for friction. 12. Since it is to be. under the Defence Department do you not think the cost should be charged to the Defence Department and not to the Education Department ? —The Defence Department has quite enough on its shoulders already. I think there might be a, subsidy. 13. We have, four teachers' training colleges in the Dominion : would you favour these officers taking classes of teachers ?—Certainly 7 . All teachers who have to teach children physical exercises should be instructed, first of all, in the proper method of giving such instruction. 14. About how many inspectors do you think would be necessary to go through the schools in order to see that the syllabus of work laid down by the Defence Department is satisfactorily carried out ? —That lam not in a position to say, because Ido not know how many schools there are. That would require thinking out. 15. Mr. Pirani] Do you think that half of the amount at present spent on the Junior Cadets —that is to say, €4,000 a year —if given to the Defence Department for the purpose of instructing teachers, would enable the work to be carried out without adding to the burdens of the Defence Department ? I have in mind a teachers' class, say, once in six months ?—1 would have them oftener than that. It would require a certain number of instructors. So many would be appointed to each district. 16. You would need, say, four centres in each education district ?—Yes. 17. It would mean probably about fifty centres for New Zealand?— You could not run one instructor in each. You would have to take them grouped. 1.8. Could not tin- duties be combined with those of the sergeant-major in the district ?—Yes ; we should not let them be idle. 1.9. If €100 a year were provided for each instructor would that be sufficient—l mean this to be in addition to what is paid already ?—We should have, to increase the number. 20. You would not have to double the number, would you ? —I do not say you would have to double them, but you would want a very considerable number. 21. You would want probably one extra for every three you have now ?—lt is very hard to say here. One would need to think it over. 22. How- many instructors have you now stationed in different parts of the Dominion, roughly speaking ? —There are two hundred altogether—all very hard at work. 23. If that number were made three hundred, and they had fifty centres to give instruction to, say, once in three months, it could be managed, could it not ?—The mattei requires consideration. 24. The Chairman] Let us ask, first of all, would once in three months be sufficient ?—To produce a really efficient instructor of that kind you would want to give them a course of about two months on the average. It depends a great deal on the individual. 25. Mr. Pirani] Do you think it-is a matter worthy of consideration by the Defence Department ? —Certainly, provided that we can afford to do it. We can do it provided we get the money. 26. The Chairman] Will you take into consideration what amount would be required to make that teaching thoroughly effective, and let us know later ?—I shall be glad to do so. Roughly, £8,000 a year would give us forty or fifty more instructors. They would not need to travel so very much. 27. Mr. Pirani] The teachers come in a good deal on Saturday ?—For this kind of thing you want a continuous course if you are going to do any good. It is no use a man coming in at the end of a week. After a while, he might, but not at the start. 28. 1 suppose about a month would be required ?—At the very least. 29. Mr. Hogben] Do you know who inspects the gymnastic instruction in the schools in Switzerland ?—They are under the Inspector of the Infantry Arm. This book that I quoted from just now says, " All boys up to the time they leave school must attend gymnastic instruction for at least two hours a week." Up to the age of fifteen or sixteen they correspond to our Junior Cadets ; from that up to twenty they are Senior Cadets. 30. You are not speaking of the primary schools ?—-It does not say here. It does not give any minimum age at all. 31. How about the children from the age of twelve ?—lt has nothing to do with them ; it is only with reference to what corresponds to our Junior Cadets, We could not take any children under the age of twelve.
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32. Should not the whole instruction in a school be on one system, from the age of five to the age of fourteen ?-—Yes, it could be so. 33. Then which is the proper Department to take charge of it from the age of five ?—We could undertake to see that your instructor was efficient, which is really- the important thing. 34. A good many of these instructors in England are not military instructors at all ?—No ; it is not a military matter. 35. For young children is a knowledge of physiology important —I mean with respect to the muscles of a growing child, ? —Yes. 36. Does a military instructor necessarily know the changes that take place in the muscles of a child of from five to ten ? —I do not think so. 37. The Chairman] Are we not missing the point ? I understood both General Godley and Colonel Heard to say that they want the instruction of these young children left to the schoolteacher, but that the instruction given to the teacher should be given by the officers of the Defence Department and tested by these officers ?—That is it. We do not want our instructors to interfere with the schools whatever, but only to instruct the teachers. 38. Mr. Hogben] To instruct the teachers to deal with children of from five to fourteen ? —No, we cannot take those on. Mr. Davidson : Did not General Godley say that he desired that the Military Department should be allowed to lay down the syllabus of work right through the primary schools, and that his Department should have the right to inspect the schools to see that that syllabus was being satisfactorily carried out ? General Godley : I do not quite see how I can have conveyed that impression, because I was only thinking of the boys of from twelve to fourteen. I was thinking and talking all the time about the Junior Cadets, and I was not really thinking of the boys from five to twelve. Mr. Hogben : Do you know that the Cadets are only about one-eighth of the pupils ! General Godley : Exactly. I rather missed that. 39. The Chairman] May we put it in this way, Colonel: that you think the instruction given the young children up to the time they reach the Cadet system should be given by the school-teacher, who shall be instructed by your officers in whatever course of instruction is necessary ? —That goes a little bey.nd our scope. We are merely dealing with boys between the ages of twelve and fourteen, and, with regard to the physical instruction of those boys we are prepared, if the money is found, to pro duce instructors who will teach these teachers the method of instructing in physical exercises suitable to the ages of the boys. There is no reason why these teachers should not at the same time take in hand the physical instruction of children of whatever age they may have to do with, provided that in all cases the instruction does not go beyond the physical condition of the child that is instructed — which is the important point, and I wish to emphasize it strongly. The whole thing depends on what you give the child to do. There must be no strain. These physical exercises are meant to be done without any bodily fatigue resulting from them. It is a question of whether you want your teachers to be more highly instructed in physiology, and so on, so that they can take on these young children ; otherwise you must leave the young children alone. You do them harm if you start giving them physical exercises by means of incompetent teachers. Walter Thomas Mills further examined. (No. 207.) 1. Mr. Kirk] With regard to the introduction of the system whereby employers give to their apprentices time off in America, do you remember why that was necessary ?—For several reasons. One was that it quite frequently occurs that an apprenticeship is made a cover under which, labour is employed under the pretence that technical instruction is being given ; the employer gets the labour, but the apprentice does not get the instruction. Now, by combining it with the school the real service which falls to the apprentice in connection with his work as an apprentice is constantly put to the test, and the work of the shop is supplemented by the instruction that is given. 2. Do you think one of the reasons is that a leading American economist has made the startling statement —which no one has attempted to contradict—that of the enormous exports from the United States not a single article is sold on account of its superior workmanship, and it is the realization of this fact among other things that is now stimulating the authorities to supply one of the great needs of the nation—good trade schools ?—Wery likely; and that would be a good reason for doing it in New Zealand, because those inferior goods are shipped to this country and sold here in large quantities. 3. But is there the same necessity in New Zealand ?—Exactly. If goods that are inferior because of lack of skill can be imported into New Zealand there might be a fair suspicion that there is lack of skill in New Zealand. 4. Or lack of population ?—No. The population is not skilled and is not informed as to the need of skill: the school is. For instance, close by is a Technical College,: the only way in which they could get students was to teach shorthand-writing and book-keeping and a few other things of that sort. But the town itself is an industrial town ; the bulk of the families are working-men's families. The Technical College has been provided, but no scheme has been laid down by which the Technical College and the industrial activities of the town are in any way related to each other. 5. What are the hours that these apprentices are called upon to work ? Is there an eight-hour oi- seven-hour system for apprentices ?—I could not say. 6. Do you think the hours are longer in America than they are here ?—Oh, yes ; the general average is longer. 7. Taking that factor into consideration, do you think the time is ripe yet in New Zealand for the employer to be called upon to allow the apprentices time off ? —ln every instance where it has been tried the employer has been the one most pleased.
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8. Is there the same need for it here seeing that the hours are shorter ?—That is, the apprentice must be trained in the hours of ordinary service or he must be double-worked. Ba. Shall he be instructed in overtime or in regular time ? —Regular time. 9. You suggested that a printing-press should be attached to each school. You realize that that could only be done at great cost ?—No ; I understood it could be done with great economy. 10. But at great initial expense ? —To equip a school with what I had in mind—a press capable, of doing ordinary job work for turning out a one-sixteenth sheet—would not be an expensive matter, and it would add enormously to the interest and effectiveness of the educational work. 11. Mr. Davidson] What would you say would be the approximate cost of a suitable printingmachine such as you suggest ?—Possibly £50 ; perhaps £25. 12. Y T ou would not suggest that these printing-presses should be put into all schools, would you ?—1 think it would be a great thing to get a press put into one school, and then let it be known through the publications. 13. And gradually work them in as time went on, with the approval of the people in the district ?—Yes. 14. Do you regard typewriting or shorthand, or both, as suitable subjects for a technical school ? —Yes. I am particularly anxious that the schools should not only be equipped for teaching the lessons involved in the service of the shorthand-writer, but all of the services involved in industrial and commercial employments. 15. Mr. Hogben] What special advantage do you think could be got from the use of a printingpress in a school ?—I would put the printing-press along with a number of other things allied to it. The child learns the letter more quickly by handling it than by seeing it. A school should be a miniature social and industrial organization. 16. Do you think a printing-press is really a necessary or desirable part of it ?—Oh, yes. 17. Do you know the journals issued at the schools in connection with the Chicago Printing College ?—I am not familiar with them, but my wife is a graduate from one of the colleges. 18. Do you know that these journals, published in the School Journal, are simply full of personalities relating to one or another of the children ? —That is quite likely. The assumption is that what I have been suggesting is to introduce journalism into the schools. What I have been suggesting is the introduction of an industrial equipment into the school. Among other things I named the printingpress, and related the printing-press to something that was being used every day in the schools' work. 19. Mr. Thomson] The art of setting type is out of date ? —Quite a little bit of hand-work is done in most shops still. We now settle a matter with a child by referring it to a book. That is a great misfortune. Nothing should be settled by referring to a book ; that is not authority. 20. Mr. Hogben] You would simply take this, then, as a part of the practical instruction ? — That is exactly the position. 21. The Chairman] You told us something about the State of Wisconsin : therefore I presume you know something about travelling libraries?— Yes. 22. What has been the effect of their introduction in that State, and what benefit has it conferred upon the community ?—W r e have a system, not only in Wisconsin but in a good number of States, in which a little case is made, say 18 in. by 3 ft., and filled with a set of books, and it locks and closes and is then all ready to ship away. The box serves as the shelves for the books when it is in use, and as the shipping case when it is on its way. These travelling libraries are handled not only in connection with the schools, but in any places where they can get them put in. For instance, the farmers' organizations have cases. These cases go into the back country where there arc no libraries at all and may remain for a number of months, and as the books are read they go round. A system has been adopted by which people are tempted to become readers. They are given an interesting novel, followed by some historical book connected with the subject that the novel bore on, and this is followed up with a scientific book. In this way there has been an enormous increase in educational activity among the people not directly in the schools, but who, by means of this service, come into contact with the schools. In some of our States that has been followed with the organization of literary societies—debating clubs. That has been carried furthest in Oregon. The State Library, which is at the head of this library system, provides a series of topics; the materials are gathered from current literature bearing on both sides of the topics, and this literature is shipped from one point to another until it is worn out. In other words, these travelling libraries ha become the means of bringing to active study a very large number of people. In the country districts these libraries would supply a great deal of information bearing directly upon dairying and soil surveys, and the hundred things the farmer would be interested in. He can get libraries with technical information. The attempt is all the time to connect the daily vocation of the people with the equipment that comes within their reach through the service of the school. 23. The knowledge that you have of that system throughout the States encourages you to recommend that it be adopted in New Zealand, especially in those backblock places where properly-found libraries are almost unheard of ?—Yes. 24. You know something about the accrediting system in vogue in the United States, by which pupils are promoted on the certificate of the teacher himself : is that not so in several of the colleges and Universities ?—That has come into vogue since I had personal knowledge of the work. Before I go I should like to make a further suggestion on a matter I mentioned ; it bears on what you were discussing to-day. It seems to me, that in the management of the schools the connection between the military and the other branches of good citizenship should be through the central body. I was speaking about a Board, and named a number of different interests that ought to be represented on the National Council of Education. A member of the Defence Department should sit as a member
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of that body, and there would be constant opportunity for extending the sort of work that was under discussion to-day; but the physical training ought to carry with it physical services by which things are actually produced in time of peace, as well as services that would be needed in time of war. William Sanderson La Trobe further examined. (No. 208.) 1. The Chairman] In your judgment is your school doing the work of a technical school proper : are the continuation classes the work of a technical school proper ?—Well, in the absence of any special school for continuation work I cannot see any other place where it can be done except at the Technical School. lam speaking about the evening classes, of course. 2. WTiat classes at the Wellington Technical School are conducted by Wellington College masters, and what subjects are taught by them ?—Latin, English, mathematics, and arithmetic in the evening classes. 3. Can you supply me with the number of pupils attending them ?—Yes. 4. Is not the senior English class reading the same books as those used in the B.A. section ?— Ido not know. I think it is highly probable they are using about the same books, because they are reading for the Senior Civil Service Examination. 5. Cannot the pupils attending these particular classes attend the University classes and get the instruction they need ?—They cannot as matriculated students, and in some cases students in applied art or applied science who work in the school wish to take classes in English of a higher character than the junior evening classes, and for them we should have to run in any case a senior class if possible. 6. How are the day classes conducted—on the lines of the high school or on the lines of the University ? — The day classes are conducted on the lines of neither the high school nor the University. 7. Do these pupils attend the classes which they like, or are they free to roam about at their own sweet will between the classes ?—Not altogether. They attend courses, and in these courses they must take every subject in the ordinary way. The courses include the various preparatory courses for the different trades, such as mechanical work, electrical work, commercial work, domestic work, and art. So far as the art classes are concerned the day classes are of a higher standard than any of the other work, and this work is of just the same standard—at any rate, it is not of any lower standard —than that in the University art classes where they exist in the Dominion. 8. Can you tell me how many pupils attend your day carpentry classes ? —I will supply you with the number. 9. If a boy attends the carpentry class on seven mornings of three hours each, making twenty-one hours' work in the year, can the Technical School claim capitation for the whole year ? —Only in the case of the associated classes ; not in the case of the day technical school. 10. How many attend the engineering day classes ?—I am not sure of the number, but I think between forty and fifty at the present time, including the whole mechanical section, because the students take only a slightly different course whether they are going in for carpentry, or joinery, or engineering work. 11. Do you consider twenty hours' attendance a year is enough to claim capitation in respect to that class ?—Certainly not; but the difficulty is in making arrangements for any particular class at the beginning of the year. We have to take count of the numbers offering, and even if these numbers fall off very considerably, as they sometimes do in certain subjects towards the end of the year, we still have to make proper provision for the classes, so that as a matter of fact what we lose is a good deal more than we gain by getting capitation on a small attendance. As a matter of fact, the small attendances do-not pay a great deal of capitation annually, and it is from the regular students we make our regular income. The others merely give us a little extra to make up for the extra inconvenience we have with them. 12. If a boy attends your school for a year in the plumbing class is that time counted for a year or as part of his apprenticeship ? —No. I believe, in one award—l do not think it is included in the present award—the minimum wages of a workman were made greater in the case of a workman holding a certificate from a technical school to the extent of Id. an hour, but otherwise there has been no direct recognition of the time spent in the plumbing class. 13. Complaint has been made that certificates issued by a technical school in one part of the Dominion are not recognized in other portions of the Dominion. If a proper examining body certifies as to the fitness of a tradesman do you not think that certificate should run through the whole length of New Zealand ?—I think the only way to do that is to have one examining body, because otherwise there are too many openings for members of local bodies to say, " We know nothing about that examination." 1 certainly think there should be one examination and one certificate, and on that certificate licenses should be issued anywhere in the Dominion by the local authority to whom application is made. 14. How much of the " large " syllabus is actually taught in your school ? How many branches of Science — i.e., veterinary science and farriery, agricultural or pastoral science—are taught in your school ?—We have certain subjects Such as wool-classing and other science subjects in a modified course to suit the particular students wishing to go on the land. We can do that because the practical work of teaching is given to the individual and not to the class. 15. For better instruction in agriculture what area of land do you think should be set aside in connection with an agricultural college if one were established in this locality ? —I have not considered the question. 16. Would it help your institution at all if the Government could be prevailed upon to give preference to the prizemen of your scientific classes during the year for employment in the Public
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WorksjDepartment and the Engineering Departments of the Dominion ?—I think any such encouragement would be likely to increase the popularity of technical-school work, and would probably tend to its greater^efticiency. 17. Is it advisable, in yourjopinion, that boys and girls should attend the same classes at night, or should they be taught in different rooms ? —The only classes in which I would be inclined to separate .men and women students life-drawing and life-modelling classes, but 1 am not by any means sure that even classes the separation would be advantageous. In the ordinary courses of continuation work|in which the sexes are most nearly equal in numbers I do not think the strain is usually too great for girls in mixed classes, and from any other point of view 1 think mixed classes are better. 18. Are any of your pupils compelled to bring excuses for being absent from class ?—The rule of the school is that notices of irregularity shall be sent out to parents or guardians in all cases in which the teacher is not satisfied that a reasonable excuse has been given beforehand or brought at the next attendance of the student. I Submit a copy of the form of notice of irregularity which we use. A register is kept of all notices sent out and of replies received, and these replies are filed for reference. The same notice is used in the case of Day Technical School students. I may state that for the first quarter of 1912 the percentage of possible attendances was 87 - 3 per cent, for students in associated classes, and 95 '86 per cent, for students in the Day Technical School. Wellington Technical Education Board. — Technical and Continuation Classes. — Notice of Irregularity. Date: . Name: . No.: . Class: . Irregularity: Cause: . (Signature of parent or guardian.) Wellington Technical Education Board. Technical School, Wakefield Street, , 191 . In view of the conditions under which the Government capitation, which is the main support of these classes, is earned, I am directed to remind you that the attendance of pupils must be both regular and punctual, and to ask you to Send on the accompanying form an explanation of the irregularity there specified, so that I may know whether the student is making every possible effort to further his studies. Whenever leave from the class is required by any young student a note of explanation, signed by the parent or guardian, must be given beforehand to the instructor in charge. W. S. La Trobe, M.A., Director. M Attendance, Ist Quarter, 1912. 1. Day Technical School. —B4 students never missed an attendance ; 24 students were only once absent out of 256 in the classes referred to ; 1 student made less than 70 per cent, of possible attend ances; 4 students made between 70 per cent, and 75 per cent, possible attendances. The average attendance at these classes was 95 -86 per cent, of the possible, which is not quite so satisfactory as it should be. There were Some cases of sickness, but these do not account for all the absences, children being kept away from school in too many cases for other reasons. 2. Associated Classes. —The total enrolment in these classes was 1,859, as compared with 1,575 for the first quarter of 1911, an increase of 284 class entries, or 18 per cent. Details of enrolment are as follows : — First Quarter, First Quarter, 1912. 1911. Art .. .. .. .. .. .. ..311 289 Building construction .. .. .. .. .. 16 22 Painting and decorating .. .. .. .. ..5 16 Carpentry.. .. .. .. .. .. .. 45 31 Plumbing.. .. .. .. .. .. ..123 127 Engineering .. .. .. .. .. .. 181 157 Science .. .. .. .. .. .. .. 236 163 Domestic arts .. .. .. .. .. 65 67 English, Latin, arithmetic .. .. .. .. .. 461 330 Commerce .. . . v ' .. .. .. .. 416 325 Veterinary science .. .. .. .. .. .... |6 Wool-classing (did not begin till second quarter) .. .... 42 Totals .. .. .. .. 1,859 1,575 Of these 1,859 class entries, 1,154 were made by free students and 705 by paying students. In regard to regularity of attendance at the associated classes, 76 per cent, of the free-place class entrants made under 75 per cent, of possible attendances, and 18 per cent, of the paying class entrants made under 75 per cent, of possible attendances. It is not easy to assign reasons for the difference in regularity of the two classes other than that the free students are compelled to make at least 80 per cent, of possible attendances except where absence is caused through illness or through working overtime, whereas no such regulation applies in the case of paying students. Taking all the associated classes, the average attendance of students was 873 per cent, of the attendances possible— i.e., arranged for by the students. On the whole this result is not unsatisfactory, and shows that a considerable improvement has taken place in the last few years. The improvement is undoubtedly due in part to the moderate compulsion under which free-place students attend, but it is by no means entirely due to this. Mainly we may attribute the improvement to the fact that the students are younger on the average, and a much larger
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proportion take definite courses with the object of preparing seriously for some particular calling. These students are always the most regular attenders. I append a table of the average attendances in the various sections :— Day school .. .. .. .. .. . . 95-86 per cent. Day and Evening . . , . , Evening. only. Associated classes— Pel . Cent . Per c J ent Art .. .. .. .. .. .. .. 86 78 Building construction .. .. .. .. .. 83 83 Painting and decorating .. .. .. .. . . 95 95 Carpentry.. .. .. .. .. .. ..83 83 Plumbing. . .. .. .. .. .. . . 86 86 Engineering .. . . . . .. .. .. 78 78 Science .. . . .. .. .. .. .. 82 82 English, Latin, and arithmetic .. .. .. .. 865 865 Commercial .. .. .. .. .. .. 92 863 Total associated classes .. .. .. .. 873 Evening classes only . . .. .. .. .. .. 85 Continuation Classes taught by Instructors who are also members of the Wellington Boys' College Staff . .Students. English (senior class) .. .. . . .. . . .. 47 English (intermediate classes) .. .. . . .. .. 92 English (junior classes) .. .. .. .. .. .. 216 . . 255 Latin (mixed classes) . . .. . . .. . . 22 Pure mathematics (senior class) .. .. .. . . . . 41 Pure mathematics (junior class) .. .. .. .. .. 32 Arithmetic (senior class) .. .. . . . . .. 44 Arithmetic (intermediate classes) .. . . . . .. . . 72 Arithmetic (junior classes) .. .. .. .. .. 71 282 Total entries of students taking these classes .. ■.. ~ 537 Of these nearly 500 are entries of students holding junior or senior free places at the school, and taking these classes as a part of their courses at the school. All junior free-place students in the eveningclasses must take English and arithmetic in addition to technical subjects. Most senior free-place students also take English or mathematics. These classes are thus an integral part of the Technical School training, and one which, in my opinion, should not be cut out of the courses for free students in the technical schools. College masters are employed mainly because they are dealing with the subjects daily within somewhat the same range, and have therefore an intimate knowledge of what is required. Day Technical School. The following are the numbers of students in the various courses in the Day Technical School •— Art—First year 9, second year 1. Commercial—First year 109, second year 57, third year 5 Carpentry—First year 4, second year 2. Domestic economy—First year 14, second year 6. ElectricalFirst year 17, second year 10, third year 1. Mechanical—First year 9, second year 4, third year 2 In addition to these there are about 30 students in the associated classes in day' art work, and about 35 in the special shorthand, typing, and precis day class for girls in training for office-work.' The great majority of those who leave before the end of two years to go to work are transferred to the evening classes, and continue their studies in some of the subjects of the day course. Many of those who leave at the end of their second year gain senior free places in the courses which they have taken, and are admitted to the evening classes. In such cases the connection of the student with the school may extend over five years or more, until the student has completed the courses necessary for his or her trade. I also append a statement of receipts and expenditure for the year ended the 31st December 1911 Augustus Heine further examined. (No. 209.) 1. The Chairman] Can you tell us of any instances of overlapping in this district as between your own school, for example, and the Technical School or any other institution? If the Technical School teaches mathematics, or the higher English subjects, 'or Latin or French during the daytime there must certainly be some overlapping. These subjects, of course, are taught by us all day, whereas from what I gathered from the Director of the Technical School they are merely taught at certain intervals in his school. There a boy may take an English 01-mathematical coursehe can also take all these subjects with us and be under control the whole day. We also teach book' keeping every morning to boys who do not take Latin, and we have a shorthand class,
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2. Typewriting as well? —No. We do not teach drawing at the College. We have a drawing class, but that is conducted at the Technical School on Saturday mornings. Leah Roberts examined on oath. (No. 210.) 1. The Chairman.] Are you connected in any way with the schools of the Dominion?—l am .not, but I taught privately for fourteen years in New Zealand before I went to England some little time ago. I desire to bring before the Commission a matter in connection with sewing and dressmaking work in the schools of the Dominion, and I am here at the suggestion of the headmasters of high schools and the Principals of colleges such as the Wellington and Wanganui Girls' Colleges. The great difficulty they experience is that the use of charts is prohibited in connection with dressmaking in the schools in New Zealand. As a result of my experience I can say unhesitatingly that the children do not get anything like the results from the measurement method commensurate with the time they devote to the work. It uses up the brain-power of the children and is practically wasted time. We require in this Dominion, in connection with the teaching of dressmaking in the schools, something more practical than we at present possess. The measurement system is for the professional dressmaker who knows her work thoroughly and is able to produce patterns after being familiar with the different parts of the dress, but to ask children to do this is to tax their brains unnecessarily and waste a great deal of their time. I had an opportunity of visiting a technical school in the North Island recently and I saw the children's sewing-work, and I told the Director afterwards that it was disgraceful. The teachers have asked me to clearly state that if ladies were Inspectors, and also if the matter were left to the Principals of the schools to adopt the method in dressmaking they- thought best, that would be much more satisfactory than the present system. I may say that in my 7 professional work I come in contact more with gentlemen than with ladies, and in nine cases out of ten they say to me, " Miss Roberts, I am a mere man in these matters." I wish to emphasize that the root of all the trouble is the fact that schools are not allowed grants for dressmaking if they use charts, and I think if that difficulty could be overcome charts would be universally used. I think you might just as well try to teach geography without the aid of a map as teach dressmaking without the aid of a chart.
Wednesday, 17th July, 1912. John Dawson examined on oath. (No. 211.) 1. The Chairman] What are you? —Secretary of the New Zealand Alliance for the Abolition of the Liquor Traffic. 2. Will you proceed, please? —The subject I and those with me have to bring before you is that of scientific temperance teaching in the schools. We represent a somewhat aggressive body on the no-license question, but it is not that phase that we wish to bring before you; it is not our theories, but the science of alcohol. This has been so fully gone into that we are satisfied that if the truth about alcohol is taught in our public schools, taught officially and systematically as part of the curriculum, only good would result from it. It has been said that the home is the cradle of the nation, and we think, that the public school is the nursery, and that it represents one of the greatest forces in modern civilization. We want to save the children of to-day that the nation may be saved to-morrow. This great reform is based not upon sentiment, but upon physiology, chemistry, the welfare of society, and the claims of humanity. We are impressed that human beings are ruled by ideas and sentiments, and that habits and customs are the result of these ideas. For centuries the ideas of the people as to the real nature, value, and effect of alcohol have been wrong, because they have not been based on truth but on delusion. We are anxious that these facts should be known, and we believe that the public school is fhe best place to make them known, where you have the children all together and where their minds are in a receptive attitude to receive the truth on all subjects. The Government, we are pleased to say, have provided wall-sheets —excellent wall-sheets —and in some cases these have been turned to good account. In some places we fear they are just a dead-letter, because the teachers are not as yet definitely and officially called upon to teach these subjects. They tell us that the syllabus is so full already that they have to give their time to that instruction which will be examined at the end of the year. We have reason to believe that a great many teachers would be glad to teach the science if they were called upon by the Department to do it, and we therefore urge that it should be made a compulsory subject. We cannot conceive that anything is of more importance to the children than their health and their development, and we ask rather for formation than for reformation. In America they have made this a mandatory subject in every one of the fiftyone States. In twenty-five States it must be taught in the same manner and as thoroughly as other required branches; in thirty-four States teachers must pass a satisfactory examination in this subject as a condition of employment; in ten States the study must be taught in all schools supported in whole or in part by public funds; in twenty-seven States it is required of all pupils in all schools ; in fourteen States pupils able to read must be taught by means of text-books' on the subject; in three States the text-books on physiology for primary and intermediate schools must give'one-fifth (or one-fourth) their space to this subject, and those for high schools at least twenty pages; in two States pupils must be examined and tested in their knowledge of this subject before being promoted to higher grades; in seven States County or City Superintendents must report to State Superintendent to what extent this law has been complied with; in two States the teacher must certify in school register, before returning same at the end of the term, whether this law has been complied with in his school or grade; in four States the subject must be taught
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in normal schools, teachers' training classes, and institutes; in twenty-two States the statute specifies a penalty for violation; in other States it is punishable under some general penal statute. I would also call your attention to the fact that in 1904, after the rude awakening as to the condition of young men in Great Britain, the British Medical Association passed the following resolution without opposition : " That it is in the opinion of this Council of the utmost importance that elementary scientific instruction in health subjects, including temperance, should be provided by the educational authorities in all the elementary schools, in order that the conditions which lead to a deterioration of the national physique may be understood and as far as possible prevented." This petition was signed by 14,520 medical men, including the most famous in the Kingdom. The petition was presented to Parliament, and it goes 011 to say that much of the disease and degeneracy with which medical men are called on to deal is, directly or indirectly, due to the use of alcohol. We urge then that definite systematic temperance teaching be given in all our schools, and thus save the young people from the subtle mocker that has ruined so many men and women. 1 have here a copy of the text-book that is authorized by the Ontario Education Department regarding physiology and temperance [produced]. There are important lessons there on each of the subjects, and at the end there is an appendix, which I should like to read. It is as follows : " Regulations of the Education Department respecting the study of physiology and temperance —By fhe regulations of the Education Department at least one hour per week shall be devoted to familiar conversations with the whole school on the effect of alcoholic stimulants and of the narcotics upon the human system. Attention should also be called to the degrading tendencies of their habitual use, and their injury to the individual and to society generally. These conversations are in addition to the course of study prescribed for the Fourth and Fifth Forms. The chapters upon digestion, respiration, the circulation of the blood, and the nervous system shall be studied in the Fourth Form, and the examination for entrance to the High School shall be based upon the pupil's knowledge of these chapters. The maximum marks awarded is seventy-five, one-third being required for pass. In the Fifth Form the course in the Fourth Form is continued, including also the other subjects of the text-book. In the case of candidates who fail to pass the Leaving Examination, 25 per cent, of the maximum marks will be required for entrance." W 7 e venture to suggest that the way to make sure of this subject being thoroughly dealt with in our schools might be by an amendment to Regulation 57 under the Education Act. At page 142, on the subject of health, and dealing with various matters, it goes on to say, "Air, ventilation, and respiration; water, washing, and cleaning; the choice of clothing, food, and drinks;" and here we suggest the addition of the words "with special reference to alcohol." If that were done teachers would then understand that they must give special attention to this subject when dealing with the matter of health, food, and drink. There may be a better place to deal with it, but we suggest the insertion of those words there as a suitable place. I do not wish to take up your time further than to say that the mere fact that teachers may teach this, the mere fact that there are wall-sheets, does not quite meet the case. We want this instruction made mandatory and not permissive, and we think there is no subject taught in the public schools that is of greater importance to the children. Robert Orr Whyte examined on oath. (No. 212.) 1. The Chairman.] What are you? —A Doctor of Medicine, a Bachelor of Surgery, and Master of Arts of Glasgow University. lam practising in Wellington. lam one of the delegates from the New Zealand Alliance for the Abolition of the Liquor Traffic. 2. Will you please state what you have to say?— The attitude I take up on this question is that temperance teaching ought to be given as a part of hygiene; it should not be swamped in a course of hygiene, and it should not swamp the course of hygiene; but a definite proportion of the time given to hygiene should be devoted to the subject of temperance. It will be my duty, in the first place, to show that there is such a thing as the scientific teaching of temperance. This is a thing that has been given a great deal of attention during recent years. A tremendous amount of information has been got together and a great many facts established. There are still some matters that are controversial, but the facts which are established are numerous enough and important enough for us to ask that they- should be included in some course for the children in the schools. In the new edition of the " Encyclopedia Britannica " we find an article on temperance. The general tenor of -that article indicates that it is written by a man who is not enthusiastic on the subject, therefore what he says about temperance may be taken as understating rather than overstating the truth. With your permission I will read an extract : " The scientific study of the physiology and pathology of alcohol is a very- large subject by itself. As has been shown, the pioneers of the temperance movement were medical men; and though the Churches soon became the moving force doctors have always exercised an influence, and in more recent times, since people learnt to bow down to the name of science, there has been a marked tendency to have recourse to scientific authority for arguments and support, of which the teaching of temperance as a branch of physiology- is an illustration. At the same time the increasing interest taken in all questions relating to health has directed the attention of scientific investigators to this subject, while advancing knowledge of physiology, pathology, and chemistry in general and improved means of investigation have enabled them to pursue it in various directions. Consequently a large amount of research has been devoted to alcohol and its effects both by experimentation on animals and plants and by observation of the morbid conditions set up in human beings by excessive and long-continued indulgence in alcoholic drinks. Another field of inquiry which has been actively worked is the statistical study of drink in relation to nationality, occupation, disease, insanity, mortality, longevity, crime, pauperism, and other aspects of social life. The
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subject is being worked at in every country 7, and a vast mass of information has been accumulated. There is no doubt that it has exercised a strong influence on public opinion, and on the whole in the direction of temperance. A great change of attitude has taken place and is still going on. The ill effects of excessive drinking, especially of distilled spirits, have long been recognized, but the tendency now is to question whether any alcohol-containing drinks are of any value at all, and to deny any valid distinction between distilled and fermented liquors. Medical abstinence societies have been formed in Great Britain, Germany 7 , Belgium, Holland, Norway, Sweden, and Denmark." It is not the intention of the Alliance to ask that children should have their minds worried with the more elaborate facts respecting the subject, but it is the intention to urge that children should have the simple facts that are known put before them in such a way that they will stick in their minds, and that they will,thus be in a sense forewarned. As Mr. Dawson has already said, nearly fifteen thousand medical men signed this petition to the English Government in 1904 asking that instruction be given in this subject. Sir Victor Horsley has given an opinion that English, arithmetic, hygiene, and temperance are equallyrequired in the schools. W T e would ask that every- teacher should in the normal schools have training in this subject, that the controversial matters should be excluded, and that plain established facts should be made known. It was upon the basis of that medical petition, I understand, that the temperance wall-sheets were drawn up, and it seems to me a strange thing that they should be good enough to hang on the walls but that it is not insisted that the children should, at any rate, learn them off by heart. If this were made a compulsory subject it would be quite easy to make a course that would be agreeable to everybody and would not offend anybody. If the majority of the people of New Zealand are prepared to do such an extreme thing as to vote out the liquor traffic altogether, I think 999 out of every thousand people would have no objection to children being taught temperance in the schools. My idea is that the only way you will get a subject of this kind taught is to give it a definite place in the curriculum, and to insist also that it be made a subject for examination. Subjects that are in the curriculum and are not brought before the Inspector for examination are usually dealt with in a different way in the school than those which are insisted upon. I think it is necessary that a sympathetic teacher should deal with the subject, and that if any member of the profession has a particular objection to what is required to be taught he should not be allowed to influence the children. I think there should be the same teaching from end to end of the Dominion. We have the knowledge, and I think it is desirable that it should be used. In asking this we are only asking that New Zealand should be brought into line with a great many other countries. From the same Encyclopedia that I quoted from before I took a note of the countries in which this teaching has been made compulsory. The Church of England Temperance Society has been giving this teaching in its diocesan schools for a good many years. In 1906 the Board of Education in Ireland made hygiene and temperance a compulsory subject in public schools. In 1909 the Board of Education in England issued a syllabus of temperance teaching, the adoption of which in elementary schools is optional. In Scotland many local authorities have adopted courses of teaching in hygiene and temperance. In the United States the matter has been dealt with long before this, laws having been passed in every State making anti-alcohol teaching compulsory. Such instruction is compulsory in Canada, except in Quebec and Prince Edward Island, where it is permissive. It has been recognized as an optional subject in Australia, South Africa, India (some provinces), Belgium, Finland, Denmark, Norway, Germany, Austria-Hungary, and Switzerland. The movement in favour of school-teaching is continuously and generally advancing. I think therefore we are justified in asking that New Zealand should fall into line with other countries and make a step forward by the inclusion of this subject in the curriculum. I have here education reports from the United States; some of the States' Committees have made investigations to see what results the teaching has had, and the reports are very satisfactory as regards the influence of such teaching. 3. Mr. Davidson] Would you be satisfied if that suggestion by Mr. Dawson were given effect to —that these words be added to the syllabus : "with special reference to alcohol"?—If it is made compulsory. lam particular about its being made an examination subject. Of course, if Mr. Dawson is expressing the opinion of the Alliance, I may be expressing a personal opinion on the subject. I ask that this instruction be made compulsory, and the subject made an examination subject. 4. Do you mean there should be a written examination? —It could be left to the Inspectors probably to decide in what way should be made, but they- should see that each child has been taught and understands what it has been taught. 5. The Chairman] Where would you start the tuition? —Usually- it is from the Third to the Sixth Standard—the teaching is graded, each class getting something a little bit more elaborate. 6. Mr. Davidson] But so far as the examination is concerned you would leave that to the Inspector ?—I think so, in the meantime. 7. You know, of course, that moral teaching is compulsory in the syllabus, and that there is no written examination ?—I understand that. 8. Temperance teaching and moral teaching should be placed on the same basis? —Yes. 9. The Chairman] Will you look at this little book which Mr. Dawson produced and see if Standards IV and V only are dealt with, so far as the conversations enjoined by the text-book are concerned? —These conversations are in addition to the course of study. The conversations start lower, and the definite teaching begins in the Fourth and Fifth Forms. 10. Mr. Davidson] Morals and health are taught in the standards right through the school, and your contention is that temperance should be dealt with in the same way?— Yes. Thomas Hill Easterfield examined on oath. (No. 213.) I. The Chairman] What are you ?—Professor of Chemistry atjVictoria College.
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2. I understand you wish to address the Commission?—l should like, in the first place, to bring before the Commissioners the importance of the subject of chemistry as a strictly educational subject, so that they may realize the harm that is likely to be done if the subject is neglected. I would point out, first of all, that it is a subject which allows of a carefully graduated method of treatment from the strictly observational, through the inductive, to the most advanced mathematical treatment. It can therefore be adapted to each stage of growth of the human mind. Secondly, the study develops the powers of observation as well as those of manipulation, thereby teaching the student not merely to think with his head, but to instinctively think through his fingers. Thirdly, there is no subject in which it is more easy to stimulate a boy's interest. Lastly, it has a wide utilitarian bearing. Modern agriculture and hygiene are based upon a knowledge of chemistry, and it is impossible to teach these subjects scientifically unless the teacher possesses a knowledge of chemistry. It touches every article of our food and clothing, and every branch of our manufactures. If these statements are true —and I do not think they can be contradicted for a moment —it is obvious that the study of chemistry is one of prime importance to the community. Next 1 would point out one or two disadvantages of chemistry as a subject of study either in school or at the University. First of all, no subject tangles up the teacher more if he does not understand it —that is to say, if he merely tries to teach it from a book. Secondly, from the point of view of obtaining marks in an examination it pays better not to teach it by observation and experiment, but to teach it by dictation from a book; and since cold teaching by experiment is of its very nature a slow process, and a whole chapter out of a chemistry book may be set for a child to " get up " in an evening, the making of the child familiar with the meaning of that chapter by actually doing experiments would very likely take two or three hours a week for perhaps two or three weeks. The temptation, therefore, is great —if the teacher depends for his reputation upon the examination result—to avoid the experiment and to teach that which is likely to be asked in the examination. Let me say that this is no mere idea. Primary-school teachers have told me that they have tried both methods, that they have realized that the teaching by experiment was the correct method, but that from the point of view of obtaining success in their examinations it had been far better to leave the experiments alone. I maintain that there is considerable neglect of chemistry as a science in New Zealand, and I base that statement upon several lines of my own observation. Firstly, I have been on several occasions examiner for the Education Department in the subject of chemistry for the Civil Service and the Teachers' Certificate Examination. In general I have found little understanding of principles and an inaccurate knowledge of elementary facts. In the old Class D ElementaryScience Examination —which I can congratulate the Department upon having now modified, that certificate having covered too wide a scope, for in one examination there was magnetism, electricity, heat, light, sound, chemistry, and hygiene in one paper —one found the same trouble, that though the directions of the Department were good in that it was understood that the candidate would have acquired an experimental knowledge, questions which were set to test whether the candidate had performed any experiments in. the greater number of cases showed that he had neglected to do so; in other words, it was a practical subject which was being learned as book knowledge, and was probably of about as much use to him as the teaching of a farmer how to shoe his own horses'by means of dictated notes from a text-book. The second line which makes me think that chemistry is not receiving the attention which we might reasonably expect is that of the Training College students, all of whom, I understand, take University classes in some subject—only a few take chemistry, and I understand that only few take any scientific subject at all —I am speaking of Wellington; and I would suggest to the Commissioners, if that is within my right, that they obtain statistics from the other centres showing the proportion of training-college students who are studying as their University subject any science. I do not blame the Training College, for the Principal of the Training College, I know, is sympathetic to the students taking experimental science as a University subject; but I can understand that since it is, as I have said, a subject which takes time, the Training College student, probably already with a heavy time-sheet, would avoid, tiuless he had special inducements, such a subject as chemistry. I maintain, however, that good bread needs baking, and that it is worth the while of the educational authorities to attempt to rectify what I believe is an error. Similarly I have found that of primary-school teachers attending the University—l do not refer to students in the Training College —only a small proportion elect to take this subject. Indeed, the classes in this subject in each of the University Colleges, so my colleagues in the other centres tell me, are surprisingly small, which is the more remarkable since I am told that in the Australian Universities it is usual to find the chemistry class one of the biggest classes in the University. This is only hearsay evidence; but I know by experience that in the case of the newer universities in England and in the case of the University of Cambridge the chemistry classes are amongst the very large classes. Now, I have said that the reason is probably that as an examination subject this does not pay. I admit the difficulty of suggesting any method whereby this hindrance to the teaching of the subject can be got over, but Ido not doubt that, this can be done. It would seem really to be based upon the difficulty which I believe so many other witnesses have brought forward —namely, that we in New Zealand are quite overridden with the examination idea; we are not satisfied unless there is constant examining taking place. I do not know that this evidence of mine is of a nature which will be very useful to you gentlemen, but I thought it my duty to bring it forward, for after thirteen years of observation I feel it would be distinctly for the good of New Zealand if more attention were being paid to this subject, though I cannot help recognizing that as an examination subject it will always present a very considerable amount of difficulty. With respect to the small number of students taking chemistry I should like to say this: supposing that a moderate number of schools require masters for the teaching of
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chemistry, it does not look as if these people will be coming forward; in fact, f have had recently several applications from headmasters for teachers to take chemistry 7in their school, and there has been very great difficulty in finding any one for them. 3. Mr. Pirani] Do you think it would be possible to utilize the services of University professors more in connection with secondary education by such things as extension lectures?—No; a.professor has more than he can attend to at present. 4. How long is the University term?— With us it is nominally from the 20th March till the end of October, with three weeks' recess in that period. During that time —I will take my own subject —a professor here is taking work which in a University at Home would be divided between five people. He has to get up to modern standard in all those five departments. There are over fifty thousand pages of new chemical literature —I do not mean text-books—being published every year, and because he is doing the work I have indicated during term he cannot give to the advanced men the time which they really ought to have during the term, and you will find that the advanced men are brought in during the vacation and work practically the whole vacation through. 5. But if the staffing were increased do you not think it would be a good system?—l do not. I say that it will take everything we can do in the way of increased staffing for very many years to get the efficiency of our University Colleges up to the mark. 6. But do you not think that under the present system there is a wide field left unexplored— take, for instance, the country between Wellington and Auckland?—l would put it the other way. I have been a University extension lecturer in the Old Country. There we send out our best students as University extension lecturers shortly after their graduation. It is an excellent training in lecturing, and by that means we stimulate interest. But a University College exists for the highest work. If we want extension lectures, and are prepared to pay for them, I do not doubt that we shall rapidly train the men who will do the work. 7. In view of the fact that the Public Trustee has in hand a sum of £10,000 from the endowments in Taranaki which he does not know what to do with, and then when the leases fall in, as they will do shortly, the income from those properties will probably be trebled, would it not be possible to utilize the money in some such way as that ?—University extension lectures, after all, can never take people to a very high standard. What happens? First of all there is a lecture once a week for about twelve weeks. Suppose I were to lecture on chemistry in Taranaki for twelve weeks, do you think that I should get an audience of respectable size all through that period? 8. The Chairman] Would you not get a good audience if you dealt with agricultural chemistry? —I doubt it. The general experience is that people will turn up well for the first lecture of the course, but then the attendance falls off. The real importance of a university depends upon making the student do the work himself. The professor lays down principles to stimulate him, but unless he learns by his own hard labour he does not get very much out of it. Some people think that the ideal University professor is the man who in the lectures teaches you everything you want to know, but it is obvious from the magnitude of the subjects that that is impossible. 9. Mr. Pirani] But are not degrees sometimes given to men who have never seen a lectureroom? I know of M.A.s and LL.D.s of that sort?— That is not the case in the science subjects. 10. The Chairman.] Is it not desirable to have properly equipped laboratories? —Certainly. 11. Is it not the custom in other parts of the world to give almost free use of the laboratories to persons qualified to use them, making a minimum charge?— Yes, and we do the same here. We charge three guineas a year for the full use of the chemical laboratory, giving the users an equipment for which in some parts of the world —London, for instance —they would pay thirty guineas a year, and we also provide materials for that. In a London laboratory he would have'to provide his own apparatus in addition to paying the thirty guineas. There is the difference that here the State is keeping the place up, while in London the thing has to be made self-supporting. 12. General complaint has been made to us that the rewards offered by the teaching profession are insufficient to attract to its service the brainiest of our young people. First, I would ask you if you accept as a truism that in the highest grades of technical education, and in the University Colleges for that matter, only men of the first rank, intellectually as well as professionally, should be employed? —That is what I think. 13. Would it be helpful to retaining the services of such men if they were allowed the right of consultive practice, so long as such practice did not interfere with the efficient discharge of their duty to the State? —I see no objection to that in the case of a man with such a subject as my own. He is very apt, unless he takes some interest in the affairs of the public, to work entirely on such specialized lines as will attract but few people, when his ability might be of oreat use in stimulating the students towards an interest in local affairs. I will give an instance. The Wellington Gas Company retains me as its consulting chemist. I have found that I have learned a very great deal there, by their bringing their troubles to me, that would never have come under my observation in the ordinary way. What I have learned there I have transmitted to my students, and I find that they have taken the very keenest interest in consequence in the development of gas-manufacture as it has taken place during the last ten years. I think it is only right that I should take an interest in something besides just the work which otherwise would come under my notice. It stimulates a man to keep him up to date. 14. You have anticipated my next question, which is whether it is not a general experience that the Technical Director or the University professor who in such manner is brought into close and practical touch with all the developments in the technology of his own particular branch
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is consequently less liable to become academic in his teaching ?—Yes, but at the same time 1 must issue a warning. The case may occur that the professor neglects his proper profession. He must regard himself as a man whose main business is the work of his profession. Cases have occurred —I could mention several in the Old Country only that 1 do not wish to be personal — of men who iiave neglected their students in order to run after an outside matter; but that, 1 think, can be sufficiently guarded against. May 1 add that I notice that the Commission has received various communications on the subject of Itible-reading in schools. In regard to Biblereading in schools I join with Huxley, a, man who, unlike myself, was an agnostic. He believed that it was possible to teach morals without the Bible, but that the Bible was the most stimulating book from the point, of view of moral teaching with which he was acquainted. I take that position without being an agnostic, and I believe that there will not be satisfaction amongst 70 per cent, of the people of New Zealand until we have Bible-reading in schools in some form. 15. Bible-reading in schools is one thing, and Bible-teaching by a State-school teacher is another. Where do you stand on that issue?--Simple Bible-reading from an approved book, with such simple explanation as a child might well ask for, can, I maintain, be given without any great difficulty. I realize that there is another side to the question, but my own view is that it will have to come sooner or later. . George Houben further examined. (No. 214.) 1. The Chairman] Will you make what further statements you wish to make in continuation of your evidence? —ft has been suggested that the Education Boards should be reduced to four, coterminous with the University Districts, Westland and Grey being, however, placed in the Canterbury District. The only advantage that I see in this proposal is that it would be easier to secure within each of these districts a proper system of promotion for teachers. But the real principle underlying local government —namely, community of interest —would really be sacrificed. Except that each district would possess its own University College and training college I see no community of interest between, say, Westport and Hastings or New Plymouth, or between Auckland and Gisborne. The proposed arrangement would be a species of. centralization, with all the evils attending undue centralization. If the Inspectors of Schools were officers of the Central Department, as suggested below, it would not be difficult to secure a Dominion scheme that would operate in the direction of providing fair chances of promotion for teachers, provided that the education districts were not too small in area. In any case I do not think it would be wise to sacrifice the principle of local self-government even to secure so great a, boon as a Dominion promotion scheme. I believe that a proper division of the Dominion into Education Board districts would be best .made in connection with a general scheme of local government, and that this would also give the opportunity for charging certain items of educational expenditure to local rates. The items I would so charge are the following : Elementary education —Teachers' house allowances, ,£14,608; general administration, £77,657 and £3,250; free text-books (or libraries), £8,000; school buildings and rent, £128,096; conveyance of school-children, £8,102 : Secondary education —Conveyance of school-children, £3,000; buildings, say, £6,000: Technical education —Material, £1,929; buildings and apparatus, £15,107; rents, £584; travelling of pupils and instructors, £2,808 : total, hay, £269,000. (The total unimproved value of land in New Zealand in 1911 was £184,000,000,' and the total capital value was £293,000,000. The total of the above items, of the cost of education is rather less than seven-twentieths of a penny in the pound on the total unimproved value; and if about half the total were raised from rates the average rate required would be, say, seven-fortieths of a penny in the pound on the unimproved value, or say about one-ninth of a penny on the capital value, which would be equivalent to about three-fortieths of the " general rate.") If buildings were erected, maintained, and rebuilt, and other incidental expenses were paid out of rates and the subsidies payable thereon, much routine work would be saved, and much friction between Boards and Department would be avoided; local extravagance would also be checked. Suggested Scheme for the Control of Certain Parts of Education. (Definition : " Education " includes all education other than university education.) Assuming that the units of local government are to be the County Councils of newly constituted counties (say, about sixteen in the Dominion), and that education is to be included among the subjects of local government, the principal changes I would recommend in the administrative parts of the Education Act may be roughly indicated as follows : — 1. Present education districts, Boards, and School Committees to be abolished. 2. New education districts to be coterminous with new counties. 3. An Education Board to be constituted in each education district as follows : (a) Six members chosen by the County Council from among its own members; (b) two members elected by the primary teachers of public primary schools in the county; (c) two members elected by all other certificated teachers employed for not less than twenty hours a week; (d) one member appointed by the Professorial Board of the University College (to be appointed annually). Half of the members (a), (b), (c) to retire each year. Council to fill vacancies (but not from its own members) if the bodies named fail to elect within sixty days. 4. No one employed as a teacher in any- school within the district to be eligible to be a member of the Education Board. Women to be eligible. 5. A Board may appoint a Superintendent of Education, who may also act as an Inspector of Schools, and such other officers as may be necessary. The Board shall appoint all teachers of
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primary schools and of district high schools after consultation with the Committees concerned. Such consultation shall be by sending to the Committee the name of the person proposed to be appointed. 6. Every school shall be inspected annually by an Inspector appointed for that district by the Minister. His reports shall be forwarded to the Board. It shall be the duty of such Inspector to advise the Board as to the qualifications of any candidate for appointment to any school when requested so to do, and in every other reasonable mariner, subject to the sanction of the Minister, to assist the Board in the management of its schools. 7. Ihe County Council shall devote an amount equal to not less than one-twentieth of its general rate to the purposes of primary, secondary, and technical education within the district. 8. The Board of Education shall levy a general education rate throughout its district, not less than one-twentieth of the general rate nor more than two-twentieths of such rate; or, with the consent of the County Council, it may levy a general education rate exceeding two-twentieths of the general rate, but not exceeding four-twentieths of the general rate. Further, the Board may within any 'separate rating area levy a special education rate which, with the general education rate, shall not exceed two-twentieths of the general rate; or, with the consent of the rating authority within such separate rating area, the Board may levy a special education rate which, with the general education rate, shall not exceed four-twentieths of the general rate. [Ba. Pending the institution of a system of local government such as is indicated above, I would recommend that the areas of the several education districts be as at present, with the following exceptions : Westland and Grey to be amalgamated with North Canterbury, Taranaki to be amalgamated with Wanganui, Marlborough and Nelson to be amalgamated with Wellington, and perhaps South Canterbury 7 with Otago. As an alternative, Westland, Grey, Nelson, and Marlborough might be amalgamated. I would recommend also that the Boards be elected on the parliamentary franchise on a system of proportional representation. The Education Boards so reconstituted should have rating-powers as follows : The Education Board may levy a general education rate throughout its district, not less than one-twentieth of the general rate nor more than two-twentieths of such rate. Further, the Board may levy in any separate rating area a special education rate which, with the general education rate, shall not exceed twotwentieths of the general rate; or, with the consent of the rating authority within such separate rating area, may levy a special education rate which, with the general education rate, shall not exceed four-twentieths of the general rate.] 9. The Minister of Finance shall pay to the Board subsidies on all moneys raised by rates, as follows : Where the contribution from the rates is one-twentieth of the general rate (or three-twenty-fifths of a penny in the pound on the unimproved value) —on each pound thereof, 155.; for each pound in excess of such last-named contribution, £1 10s.; but in no case shall the subsidy exceed £1 10s. per annum for each child in average attendance at the primary schools in the county. 10. The Minister of Finance shall pay to each Board a sum sufficient to pay teachers', probationers', and pupil-teachers' salaries and allowances; scholarships; capitation for free places in secondary schools, for technical instruction, and subsidies under this Act. All other charges shall be borne by the Boards. 11. The Board shall take such steps as seem to it necessary, after consultation with the Department of Education, to supply or aid the supply of education other than primary (including the general co-ordination of all forms of education), and for that purpose may spend not less than a two-hundredth part of the general rate if so much be required, and not more than onehundredth of such general rate unless the County Council, with the approval of the Minister of Education, consents thereto. 12. (1.) Every secondary school shall be managed by seven Governors, three elected by the Board, three elected by the parents, and one appointed by the Professorial Board of the University College. (2.) Every technical school to have Managers, &c. 13. (1.) Each county (or education district) shall be divided into school districts, each school district to contain not less than three schools nor more than ten schools : Provided that where there are more than ten schools within a radius of five miles from any place all the schools within such radius may be included within the same school district : Provided further that if there be no other school within ten miles by the nearest road of one or two schools such one or two schools ma} 7 be sufficient for the constitution of a school district. (2.) Every primary-school district shall have a Committee of five persons, of whom three shall be elected by the parents and two appointed by the Board. 14. A Board may constitute an Advisory Committee, consisting of some members of the Board, representatives of employers and workmen, and of primary, secondary, and technical schools, for advice and assistance in matters relating to technical instruction, including agricultural instruction. 15. The character of the curriculum of any secondary school, or of any technical school under separate Managers, shall be subject to the approval of the Board, but no objection shall be made to such curriculum except on the ground of failure to make suitable provision for the needs of the district, or on the ground of want of reasonable co-ordination with the work of other educational institutions in the district. 16. In the case of any dispute between the Board and the governing body of a secondary school, or the Managers of a technical school, or the Committee of any public primary-school district, the matter shall be decided by the Council of Education (or by a commission of three persons, of whom one shall be appointed by the Board, one by the other body concerned, and
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one, to be Chairman, by the Minister of Education). The decision of the Councii (or of the commission) to be final. 17. If the parents of any ten children of school age residing within a radius of five miles from any place, or the parents of any twenty children within such an area who have qualified for free places in secondary or technical schools, make representation to the Minister that no suitable provision exists within such area for primary or secondary or technical education, as the case may be, and it appears to the Minister that the Board is unwilling to make such provision, then the matter shall be determined by the Council of Education (or by a commission as referred to above). If the Council (or commission) decides that certain provision is necessary, and the Board refuses to make such provision, the Minister may himself make the required provision and may deduct the cost thereof from the subsidies payable to the Board. 18. (1.) There shall be one teachers' training college in each University district. Every training college shall have a Committee of Management constituted as follows : (a) The Chief Inspector of the district, who shall be Chairman of the Committee; (b) one member appointed by the Professional Board of the University College of the district; (c) one member elected by the members of the Education Boards wholly- or partly witiiin the district; (d) one member elected by the certificated teachers of primary schools within the district; (c) one member elected by all other teachers within the district who are employed for not less than twenty hours a week. (2.) (a.) The Council of Education shall recommend the person to be appointed as Principal of the training college, and no person shall be appointed by the Minister to be Principal except on the recommendation or with the concurrence of the Council, (b.) The Committee of Management of the training college shall, subject to the approval of the Council of Education -and of the Minister, make all other appointments of the staff of the training college and of the normal school or schools attached thereto. (3.) The Committee of Management of the training college shall, subject to the approval of the Council and the Minister, have control of all the training of teachers other than pupil-teachers or probationers in the said University district, whether within or without the training college. 19. There shall be in the Department of Education a Director of Education, who shall be the permanent head of the Department, four Chicf v Inspectors, and such Senior Inspectors, Inspectors, clerks, and other officers as the Governor may- from time to time appoint. 20. There shall be four inspection districts, coterminous with the University districts, each having a Chief Inspector, two or more Senior Inspectors, and other Inspectors as may be necessary. 21. (1.) There shall be a Council of Education, which shall be composed as follows: (a) The Director of Education, who shall be Chairman; (6) the four Chief Inspectors; (c) two members representing Education Boards—viz., one elected by the members of the Education Boards of the two southern inspection districts, and one member elected by the members of the two northern inspection districts; (d) two members representing certificated primary-school teachers —viz., one member elected by the teachers of the primary schools in the two southern inspection districts, and one member elected by such teachers in the two northern inspection districts; (c) one member elected by teachers of secondary schools emploj 7 ed for not less than twenty hours a week; (/) one member elected by teachers of technical schools employed for not less than twenty hours a week; (g) one member appointed by the Senate of the University of New Zealand. (2.) No Chief Inspector, Senior Inspector, or other Inspector of the Education Department shall be appointed except upon the recommendation or with the concurrence of the Council of Education. (3.) The Council shall meet once in each quarter at such times as it may determine, and at such other times as the Minister shall appoint. (4.) The Council shall advise the Minister in regard to the matters hereinbefore mentioned and generally in regard to all matters concerning education other than those relating to the internal administration of the Department or of Education Boards, and, further, in regard to such other matters as may be referred to it by the Minister. (5.) Each member of the Council other than those who are officers of the Education Department shall receive during attendance at meetings of the Council a travelling-allowance of £1 Is. per day in addition to the actual expenses of travelling. promotion of teachers. 22. (1.) The Council of Education shall draw up at least once in each year a list of all the certificated teachers in the Dominion, graded with reference to their qualifications and to the position for which they are qualified. (2.) (a.) Every Education Board, before making an appointment to any vacant position, shall take into consideration the fitness for such position of all teachers eligible for the position, whether they are resident or employed in the district of that Board or not. (b.) Any teacher may appeal to the Council of Education in respect to any appointment made by an Education Board if his appeal is sustained by the District Educational Institute; but no such appeal shall be sustained except on the ground that, having regard to the list referred to above and to all other candidates for the position, the appointee was not eligible for such position. The Education Board or the District Educational Institute, as the case may be, shall pay all the costs of the appeal. As to the expediency of inserting that last provision I am doubtful. The reason in favour of its insertion is that without it paragraph (a) might have no force. The reason against it is that it seems to restrict in rather too large a manner the liberty of the Education Boards. The next point to which I wish to refer is the exact position of the Department with reference to Native schools. The Native schools were first definitely established in conformity with the Native School
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Act, 1867. The problem to be dealt with was almost entirely new; it was to bring an untutored but intelligent and high-spirited people into line with our civilization, and to do this by instructing them in the use of our language and by placing in Maori settlements school buildings and European families to serve as teachers, and especially as exemplars of new and more desirable modes of life. Though a Committee is elected annually for each school, the Committee receives mi funds and has no voice in the appointment or selection of a teacher. Thus it appears that Native schools are established in such places as, owing to remoteness and the uncivilized character of the population, cannot well be supplied by the Board. The young Maori child, handicapped as he is with the want of knowledge of English, requires special individual attention, and com.plaints have been made, therefore, that the Maori children hinder the progress of the Europeans. The special conditions attaching to Maori settlements call for special arrangements. The Department as far as possible insists upon teachers being married. In a few cases the Boards have found some difficulty in obtaining teachers for Native schools which have been transferred to their charge. The management of Native school affairs and dealings with both the children and people both require some special knowledge, and the Department may fairly claim from its long experience that it has this special knowledge. In several cases where Native schools have been handed over to the Board, in a short time the Maoris apparently lose their interest in the school and the children cease to attend, as at Kawhia. In other cases where the schools have been handed over to the Boards the Boards have confessed their difficulty in dealing with the school, and these in places where the Maori has been quite Europeanized. Little River is a case in point.. There is a great objection on the part of Europeans in many places to the presence of Maori children in Board schools, and numerous applications have been received from Boards and School Committees asking that separate provision be made for the Maori children in their districts (e.g., Little River, Okaiawa, Pungarehu, Waitotara, Taumarunui are cases in point). The Department's policy is to transfer the schools to the Board of the district as soon as the Maoris have reached the stage where they have sufficient knowledge of English to speak it in their homes, or where as the result of an influx of Europeans to the district the majority of the children are Europeans. Native schools are never built where a Board school is already in existence. In this way over fifty schools have been transferred to the Boards since the Department took control of them, and thus arises a peculiar feature of Native-school work —viz., that Native schools become less and less necessary as we thoroughly succeed in performing the work we hav.e in hand It cannot be long, perhaps fifteen or twenty years at the most, before all the Native schools have thus been transferred. Something has been said as to the political reasons for the establishment of a certain Native school in Taranaki (Pariroa). It is perfectly tine that in a wide sense the reason for its establishment was a political one —that is to say, it was the policy of the Government of the day to establish the school in order to break down Te-Whiti-ism. The school was deliberately established as one of the factors in the scheme to win the Maoris over to the more rational life and thought that the Native schools had brought about in other parts of the Dominion. In that sense it was political, because it was undertaken as a matter of policy —a policy which any reasonable Government might undertake. As a matter of policy the scheme failed, for Te-Whiti-ism was broken down in another way —by the death of Te Whiti himself; but still the movement was deliberately undertaken. That was before 1 joined the Department, but if I had been in office at the time I would have recommended it as a matter of high policy. 2. Mr. Pirani.] I think it is only fair to say that that case was quoted only as an instance to show that there may be good reasons of which the public are not aware for the failure of a school to do what it was supposed to do when it was established. No imputation was made? —I know there was none. The point was that in some cases there were reasons that the Department was not aware of why a school which had been removed did not fulfil expectations. What I suggested was that if that was so with regard to the Department, surely the same latitude should be extended to the Boards. The point was that it was not so understood by everybody. In another place a Native school was set up for a similar reason—at Tautoro, near Kaikohe, in Bay of Islands County. In that case, which occurred in 1906, the Natives objected to the individualization and opening up of the land for Maori or other settlers. The Maoris went so far that they were practising rifle shooting, and Sir James Carroll went to the district and tried to pacify them. It was suggested that a school might do the work that was desired. Sir James Carroll succeeded in calming the Natives, and a leading -"Maori of the district was advised to ask for a school. The school was established. The teacher of the neighbouring Native school, by conversation with the people, induced them to see what a good thing it would be to have a school, and the land has since been opened up. So that that school succeeded in its " political purpose." That sort of thing was very common in Sir George Grey's time, but it has not been so common in more recent times. Now I come to another point. To the 298 candidates for Class D who failed outright at the examinations in January, 1912, under the regulations of the 26th November, 1906, the Department was able under the new regulations (of the 13th February, 1912) to grant status as follows : (1.) Success in all but one subject taken, 3. (2.) Passed first section, Class D, 5. (3.) Gained partial pass for the first section of Class D, 124. The number of candidates that still failed outright was 166. Exact figures are not now obtainable as to the numbers of candidates with incomplete C status who benefited immediately by the change of regulations, and to obtain the information exactly would mean the scrutiny of six thousand files. The following information is, however, approximately correct: (1.) The positions of some fifty or sixty of the candidates who held partial passes for Class C were improved, in sixteen cases complete passes for C being granted. (2.) About fifty or sixty other candidates who held sectional-passes for C were able to be recorded as. having gained partial pass. Reference has been made to the scheme for the gradual substitu-
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tion of assistants for pupil-teachers under section 5 (2) of the Education Amendment Act, 1908 Here is the scheme as submitted to the Minister for approval :—
This leaves unsolved the question of the method of supply, unless we are to double the number of students in the training colleges. There are these alternatives :To use uncertificated teachers, to which I am strongly opposed (for I would rather leave the schools as they are with pupil-teachers); another is to double, or perhaps more than double, the number of students in the trainingcolleges, or reduce their period to one year, which would double the number coming out; and the third is to import teachers. We should not be afraid of letting it be known at Home that we are short of teachers. At the same time I would not call for applications, but let the teachers come out at their own risk. When they write to us now we tell them that there is a shortage of teachers in New Zealand, and that the appointments are in the hands of the Education Boards; that it is not advisable for any teacher to come out unless he is young, with a good character, and can produce good certificates. Even then, we inform them, the teacher must come at his own risk, but the prospects are such that a teacher of that character would not be long out of a position if he will take what offers. 3. The Chairman] Would you recommend that the Government should give teachers desiring to come to New Zealand the benefit of free or assisted passages ?—I do not think there is any need to do that. If married they can come out here, and as soon as they get a footing they can use the refund of their money from the Superannuation Fund in England for the purpose of bringing their families out. In England every teacher of good character can get his money 7 back from the Superannuation Fund when he retires. (In New Zealand we give it back whether the teacher is of good character or not.) The next point is with regard to the supply of paper. We have changed our method of supplying paper to Native schools in the last year. Instead of supplying exercise-books we have adopted what is sometimes called the Chicago plan. We supply sheets of ruled paper with boards within which to put them, so that the book grows as the sheets are added. In the case of the teacher who has to correct the work at home, instead of taking the book home she takes the loose sheet, It is the loose-leaf system applied to schools. We are working it in our Native schools and our special schools. The covers we have at present are rather expensive, and much better than are really required. The cover we have costs four times that of the cover used in Chicago. One pair of boards costs BJd.; in Chicago the cost is 4or 5 cents. Most of our stationery is cheaper in New Zealand than in America, so there is no reason why we should not get a cheaper cover-board which will serve the purpose. The sheets are held in the boards by means of lacing, but the lacing does not wear out the cover. I have a Chicago book which I have used for ten years in my own work, and it is about equal in strength to an ordinary exercise cover. The sheets of ruled paper cost a little over a fourth of the price of an exercise-book reckoned by the number of pages. It costs 2s. lljd. per thousand sheets —that is, two thousand pages. We had quotations from nearly- all the firms. Then, plain sheets in lieu of slates for arithmetic work. This paper we are using is of better quality than is really necessary. As a matter of fact we are only using it because we bought a job lot at the same price as we can get the inferior quality. The price is 2s. 2d. per thousand ready cut. With respect to graph paper: The imported paper costs 7s. llfd. per thousand sheets; this includes all charges. The paper is ruled to one millimeter, but if ruled to two millimeters it would cost the same. The Government Printer's paper costs 10s. per thousand sheets in twenty thousand lots. This is exclusive of the original cost of the plate, £5 10s. This ruling is 2 cm. deeper than that
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1912. 1913. 1914. 1915. 1916. Grade. Number of Schools. No. of „„, . At,aat Salary, ants. NO. Of „ , , Assist- * ateof Salary, ants. J NO. Of r, , f titf Sala V No. of ., , , Assist- a , eof ants. Salar yNo. of ., , , Assist- aeof ants. Sa,ar - V ' V VIA VIb VIIa VIIb VIIIa VIIIb VIIIc IXa IXb IXc X 118 55 34 31 23 21 14 12 8 8 5 28 I at £90 1 at £90 1 at £135 1 at £135 1 at £90 1 at £90 1 at £90 1 at £90 1 at £90 1 1 2 1 1 1 at £90 at £90 at £90 at £90 at £90 at £90 1 1 1 2 2 3 2 at £90 at £90 at £90 at £90 at £90 at £90 at £90 2 2 2 2 at £90 at £90 at £90 at £90 et total of assistants added 173 145 153 153 146 Net total of additional cost £7,785 £8,055 £9,360 7s. £6,885 £2,935 Addition to estimates £2,000 £8,000 £8,300 £8,700 £6,000
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on the paper imported from Home. The prices include the ruling for graphs on one side and for writing on the other. We have to get this paper for examination work, and there is no reason why we should not supply it to the schools and to the University also. The next point I come to is that of the forms for returns. As to Form 8, " Return of Attendance for Quarter " : We have left in the quarterly summary of the attendance register. There are certain particulars which .the teacher has to enter every quarter in the quarterly summary of attendance, and what is now proposed is to leave in Part 1 of return No. 8 only those lines now numbered I, 11, 111, VII, VIII, and XIII. No calculation is needed, and the teacher can make it out in ten minutes or less. Part 2 might be asked for only in the December quarter. As to the last part, I am not sure whether we should not abolish it altogether. The only thing is that it affords a check for other returns. The Boards are asking for simplification of the forms for manual grants, aud these lists would be perhaps some check on that. In any case they are required only for the December quarter. As to Form 9, " Summary of Attendance Returns for Quarter " : This return is the summary of the attendance returns (No. 8) for separate schools. One part gives the return of the teachers, the other the return of the pupils. There are in all eighteen columns, but ten are required only for the December quarter, and two might be deleted. The average weekly number is required for every quarter, aud the average attendance is required for every quarter. So that for every quarter except the December quarter only six columns are wanted instead of eighteen. 4. Mr. Kirk] fs there any necessity for the signature of the Chairman of the Board on that return, or of the Chairman of the School Committee on the previous one? —It gives the Chairman an absolute right of looking into the return. I know of one instance where the faking of a return regarding attendance was ascertained by reason of the Chairman looking into it before putting his signature to the return. Many of these things are done to stop dishonesty, even though the amount of dishonesty might be proportionately very small. The Inspectors, of course, have the power of checking the registers, and 1 am accordingly prepared to strike out the provision for the signature of the Chairman of the School Committee on the blue form, Return 8. I will take now No. 2, which depends on Form 8. The information in this is absolutely necessary in order to trace the progress of the pupils through the different standards at the different ages. It is one of the most important forms recognized in every country. It is one of the minimum requirements agreed upon at the Conference held by the English Board of Education in 1907 between the heads of the British Departments, representing England, Scotland, and Ireland, and the other Departments of the Empire represented at that Conference. 5. There has been no objection to that? —Mr. Crow in Auckland objected to the form of it. The top one was formerly in two returns —one a classification according to age, and the other a classification according to standards. This may seem more complicated, but it is not; it is only the work-sheet of the. other. I do not see how we can do without that. I expressed a doubt as to the utility of the last part of Form 8, and the same remark would apply to the lower part of this. If the one is abolished the other would be abolished as a matter of course. 6. Mr. Pirani] If we did away with the detailed capitation return of each school this would take its place?— Yes; this would supply the information as to the particular subjects taken, otherwise we would be quite in the dark, and would only have such statements as the Boards chose to give. 7. Mr. Kirk] I notice this one has to be signed by the Secretary- to the Board only?— That is so. This one does not concern payments; the other one is an index to the basis of payments. I am going to suggest, the doing-away with returns Nos. 6 and 7 altogether. They are the two heaviest returns of all, and if we get return No. 1, which I think for other reasons is necessary at the beginning of the year, we can then make this up in the Department from No. 1. No. 1 must be made up in the Boards' offices even if it is not sent to us. Nos. 6 and 7 are the basis of the table now called the "Lists of Schools" sent out to Boards and Committees. It is the only means they have to compare themselves with other School Committees. We can lessen the number of columns of the old 6 and 7 returns, because as far as the Department is concerned we do not want to know the expenses of each individual school for some of these items at all. We want to know only tho total spent on certain items in the districts, for the information of Parliament. 8. Mr. Pirani.] Do they not compile something like this for themselves in their annual report? —Probably they compile it, because they have to compile it for the Department. Return No. 6 corresponds to the first two-thirds ofthe'appendix to E.-2, and return No. 7 corresponds to the last, five columns of the appendix. 9. You think 6 and 7 should be abolished? —I see no public service to be served by continuing them. We should be able to give the schools and average attendance and salaries to the Committees. 10. The Education Board of the district could publish the list? —Yes, if they wanted to. Ido not see the Boards need publish anything except the incidental expenses of the schools. No doubt a lot of these things have lasted since the passing of the Education' Act, and columns have been added as new votes have been given. These are the heaviest returns. Probably return No. 1 seems heavy because of having to be prepared at the same time as still heavier returns. I would point out, first of all, that this information in No, 1 has to be given. The information has to be obtained by the Boards themselves for paying teachers. We have to get it some time in the year, and therefore it seems most businesslike, especially as the amount of payment of teachers' salaries is so large, to get it early and prevent mistakes which occur from going on till the end of the year rather than to try to correct them after they have been made. 11. Cannot you correct these mistakes by having a departmental audit once a month?—l think a monthly departmental audit would be rather heavy, because although one officer could audit all the Boards' accounts if he had plenty of time he could not do it, once a month. The
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total payment for teachers' salaries is over £600,000 this year, and I do not know, when you have to deal with such a large sum as that, whether it is not more businesslike to get at the outset the facts you must get sooner or later, and get them once for all. I put it to the Commission whether Parliament would care to go on paying at the rate of over £600,000 per annum for a year or fifteen months when there might be a good many errors. 12. The Chairman] You get all this information from the Boards themselves, and you have no means of traversing it?— Yes, we keep a record of every teacher. W r e have means of checkingit. Form No. 1 is a general statement. We keep cards in respect of every teacher in order to trace salary and service for superannuation purposes. We keep these cards in the Department, and some of the Boards keep them ; the Department would supply the cards if requested to do so. We keep these cards posted up. A teacher may go from one district to another and a Board may give him too much or too little salary, and they do so in a good many cases. We can trace the teacher by our cards, and we can make the adjustment. Some of the mistakes are not clerical errors, but mistakes through want of knowledge. Sometimes there are errors through the Boards reading the Act or regulations differently. We have the advantage of the Solicitor-General's advice if we are in doubt, and, of course, we cannot have thirteen different interpretations as to salaries; we can have only one. I will take the Wanganui return for 1910. There were fortycases where the salaries claimed were higher than those allowed by 7 the Act and regulations, and in no less than thirty cases the salaries allotted were below the scale of salaries allowed by the regulations. We made thirty-five adjustments in the various quarters afterwards. Would it be businesslike to allow these errors to go on for a year ? 13. How soon did you find the errors and make the adjustments? —Soon after they were sent in. There were seventy cases that had to be set right, and in the majority of them the officers of the Board agreed afterwards that they were wrong. In the Grey District, which has a small number of teachers, in one year nearly every entry was wrong. In 1912, in eight cases the teachers' salaries were lower than the scale, and in four they were higher. 14. Mr. Pirani] Do you know of any instances of readjustment where the Department's decision that the Board was wrong has afterwards proved to be wrong? —Yes, there have been cases. There have been cases in which I have given a decision based on the Solicitor-General's judgment, and some of the officers of the Department, acting to the best of their judgment, have misinterpreted the ruling. Without the Boards asking for if we have set several of these right. When we discover an error in going through the cards again we set it right whether the Board asks for it or not. In regard to the Otago District, in 1911, through the agency of the cardrecord system for service and salary of teachers, the Department ascertained that several teachers who had been transferred to different education districts were not paid full rates. In one case the Department pointed out to the Board that a teacher had been underpaid £33, the Board having omitted to claim that amount from the Department. The teacher was paid this, and a curious thing is that the Teachers' Institute thanked the Board for having ascertained the arrears were due. 15. Was it not the Teachers' Institute that drew the Department's attention to it? —No. The error was discovered by the Department. Neither the Institute nor the Board knew anything about it until the Department had moved in the matter. In Wanganui the Department, by means of its card records, poiuted out to the Board that arrears were due to two teachers amounting to £33 6s. Bd. and £2 10s. The Board had not paid the teachers at the correct rate. Nineteen corrections were made in the Board's return for 1911. 16. W f as the reason for that the transfer of the teachers from one district to another? —I am not blaming the Board. I am only saying that happened, and the Department found it out.. In the 1911 returns from Southland, where, as everybody knows, there is a Secretary of long experience and very careful, there had to be twenty-five alterations made. 17. Do you not think a lot of these mistakes are due to the very complex system and the fact that there are five different ways by which you can pay a teacher? —There are not five different ways; only one. No doubt, if the Boards had all the information the Department has, some of the mistakes would not occur at all. I am not attributing blame, but pointing out that this information is necessary. 18. The Chairman] No. 3 was objected to on the score of the complexity of the information asked for? —If there are not adjustments necessary then there is nothing to go in the return. It has only to be made up when adjustments are necessary. 19. Mr. Pirani] Can you give us any idea, of the number of adjustments in the year in Auckland, which is a big district? —In the last few years Auckland has been tolerably correct. It keeps the card system which we recommended. 20. Mr. Kirk] Is it possible in return No. 1, instead of setting out in detail the schools and name of each teacher in each school, to consolidate it?— No. We could not make up the return in lieu of Returns 6 and 7, which in future we propose to make up in the Department, unless we had this information. We are only able to do away with 6 and 7by making them up ourselves. The information is necessary, too, for superannuation purposes. An enormous number of mistakes occur in making out superannuation payments, and we cannot check them without this information. I think the saving will be immense by doing away with 6 and 7. 21. Mr. Wells] Do you propose that No. 6 should be filled in by the Department in full?— It need not be put in full. We propose to simplify the parliamentary paper. We cannot compile it all, but the columns in regard to teachers' salaries and number of pupils, and so on, we can fill in. Of course, the withdrawal of these returns has to be subject to the Minister's approval. 1 should like to make a statement now in regard to the manual and technical returns, and I can hand in the proposed corrected forms on Friday. First, as to the payment for handwork in schools, we suggest that the Boards shall get from their teachers a note on the December return
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No. 8, the letter "H " being put in below each class that takes handwork. Then the Board, by adding up all those in which the letter "H" is inserted, will give us the total for the whole district, and we can pay the total capitation for the whole district. There will be no application forms at all. 22. Mr, Kirk.] You will pay on the previous year?— Yes, we can do that perfectly well as regards interim payments, and we can make the final payment on the return for the year itself. Then, with regard to the woodwork and some of the subjects that are paid at a high rate, we can probably simplify the forms. We shall not want any special attendance registers, except where the classes are held at centres. I do not see that we can do without them there. But that would simplify matters, because the number of schools in which this subject is taught is small. Agriculture would go -with the other sciences, because it is only the initial payment that is large. There would be a good deal of simplification there; it would do away with five-sixths of the work in connection with the handwork in schools. The change would probably take some time. The difficulty- is to see precisely how to do it. With regard to the technical classes, we have been in consultation with the Directors of technical schools, and the complications are due not to our requirements, but to the different sets of subjects that the pupils take up, making all sorts of groups, some heterogeneous and some homogeneous. If they 7 all followed courses it could be done very easily. Some of the Directors, in making out the claims, notice that the pupils are taking some subject that is paid at a different rate. 23. Mr. Wells] It is not possible to strike an average rate, I suppose? —If there is an average rate there is a tendency for too large a number to take commercial subjects, which are easiest to teach. 24. Mr. Davidson] The trouble is mainly due to the necessity for the payment for subjects on a capitation basis?— The difficulty would still remain as to how you were going to pay the classes unless all pupils took definite courses. 25. If the money were raised by local rates this kind of thing would not be necessary?— Local rating would do away with a good deal of it. As the technical schools become more developed and more organized —organized into courses, I mean —you can very much more easily take the total number. We need to have cards now for free pupils. The Directors of technical schools would rather make out a card for each pupil, which, after all, gives much less trouble than the present returns, and we could pay claims on the cards. We could then probably reduce the otherforms very considerably indeed. 26. Mr. Wells] How can the Department get particulars from the cards? —The cards would be kept as they are in the secondary schools. Then the technical schools would get the option that the secondary- schools now get. If a, secondary school keeps cards for free pupils, instead of sending in a claim with detailed names, they can send in their cards, which we copy and send back. They need make no return, except as to the total number and the total claim. If they do not do this they have to send us a list. I think the card system will prove a solution of the difficulty with regard to the technical schools. The whole of the technical forms in handwork were discussed by the Department with the heads of technical schools a year or two ago, and they agreed that they could not suggest anything better. Mr. La Trobe the other day expressed the opinion that he would rather do the card system two or three times over than" follow the present system. 1 believe it would save an immense amount of work. I might add that in England they have gone through the same experience as we. We copied England, really, in regard to the capitation. They have not yet reached a solution of the difficulty. They have partly modified that system by paying lump sums, but it is said that the result 'has been such that they- have got to reconsider the whole matter. It is difficult to find a basis for a lump sum. What is called the " whisky money " has kept the authorities in England from having straitened finance. This is so large a sum that they have been saved the difficulty we should have got into if we had adopted that system, because our local authorities would have had no such big sum to fall back upon. That is all I have had time to get ready to-day.
Thursday, 18th July, 1912. John Norman Risjworth examined on oath. (No. 215.) 1. The Chairman] What are you?—l am president of the New Zealand Dental AssociationI appear as one of a deputation from that body. 2. Will you kindly proceed ?—I have just come to report on an inspection of the children's teeth that we have recently carried out at two schools in Auckland. We are progressing through the whole of the Auckland Provincial District, and the condition we have found to exist so far is so alarming that we vtish to call your attention to the matter. In one school there were 190 pupils present, and out of the 190 only three had perfect teeth. Only ten of them had ever cleaned their teeth, as far as we could gather. They had no knowledge at all of the care and attention that ought to be' exercised to keep their teeth in good order. Seven children were particularly noted whose constitutions were so debilitated owing to the scandalous state of their mouths as to be beyond the possibility of beino brought back to a normal condition. Their constitutions were permanently injured, as far as we could judge. That was at the school with 190 children. At the next school visited there were 397. Here the state of affairs was not quite so bad, but of the 397 only fourteen had perfect teeth, and these, were among the very young children with only temporary sets—children of less than six years. Only one child over six had its teeth in a perfect state. In that school only twenty-nine habitually cared for their teeth. The condition of the mouths of the remainder naturally varied, but there was* a hopeless state of ignorance at this school and at the other. The children were not in the habit at all of getting
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dental treatment except that at the first school there were eight dental hospital patients. We have a dental hospital in Auckland where poor people can be treated either gratuitously or at a very small fee, and these eight children had been to this hospital. You will realize, from what I have told you, the almost hopeless state the children's teeth are now in. One way in which we must ask the help of the schoolmasters is this :|we find they do not allow their children away during school hours to attend the dentist ; they expect us to do all the dental service that is necessary for the children we have to treat between 4 and 5 o'clock in the afternoon and on Saturday morning. In the winter-time it is dark long before 5 o'clock. It is quite impossible for us to attend to the children in this restricted time. What we think we are entitled to expect is that the teachers should help us by allowing children off during school hours when we require them. We could assist the teachers by giving the child an appointment card, which could be signed by the dentist, so that the teacher would know at what time the child arrived at the dentist's and when he left. There would in this way be no time wasted by the child. 3. In your inspection did you find any difference as between boys and girls ? —We did not take any note of that. From my private practice, however, I should say that boys have their mouths in a little better order than girls. 4. Mr. Wells] With regard to letting children away from school to attend the dentist, have you thought of this phase of the matter —that the dentist fixes the time quite irrespective of the school, and it may mean the child's missing very important lessons ?—We shall try to meet you in that respect if you will give us the chance. We ask the child, when making an appointment, when it can best be spared, and it naturally picks the time when the most difficult lesson will be given. If the schoolmasters would send along the syllabus and mark the hours when the children could best be spared we could arrange accordingly. 5. Mr. Davidson] Is it not largely parents' hands ?—Some teachers are autocratic, and then, of course, sometimes the teachers are imposed upon. But we have this difficulty, and it is a serious one. 6. Are the two schools you have mentioned the only ones you have inspected ?—We visited these during the last month. 7. Is this very dreadful state of affairs common throughout the Auckland District ?—I think itis common throughout the whole of New Zealand. The average of well-cared-for mouths may come up as the examination progresses, but I think it will be very little better. Henry Percy Pickerill examined on oath. (No. 216.) 1. Thefihairman] What are you ?—Professor of Dentistry at Otago University. lam a Doctor of Medicine and Master of Dental Surgery. I appear here as one of the deputation from the Dental Association of New Zealand. 2. Will you please say what|you have to say ? —I should like to preface my remarks by quoting the old adage, Mens sana in corpore sano, and suggesting a modification of it, Mens sana, denta sani — that is to say, the health of the child is necessary to full mental development, and the health of the teeth and the oral tissues are also necessary to the mental development of the child. It has been found over and over again in the examination of school-children in England and America that those children with the most healthy mouths and teeth have been those at the top of the classes, and those at the bottom have always been those with the unhealthy mouths and the diseased teeth. The connection between the two is most marked wherever examinations are carried out. Moreover, the children begin to make the most marked progress after the diseased conditions have been eliminated. It has been noticed particularly in Several schools in America, where exact records have been kept, that the position of the children in the classes and their efficiency generally increase from 60 to 70 per cent, after the dental disease has been treated or eliminated in some way. I can bear out Mr. Rishworth's remarks, not from a statistical point of view but from observation, when he says that the condition of the teeth of the children of this country is absolutely appalling. I came out here from England five years ago, used to hospital work at Home, and I was used to something pretty bad, but 1 was simply astounded at the universality of dental disease in this country, especially amongst children. Since I have been in this country I do not think I have seen, in the course of my professional duties, one child with a perfectly healthy mouth. I should also like to bear out Mr. Rishworth's remarks with regard to the difficulty of treating school-children. We treat a very large number of school-children at the dental hospital in Dunedin attached to the University, and we are absolutely crowded out on Saturday mornings ;we cannot do the children justice because there are so many there. On other mornings of the week quite one-fourth of the appointments are broken. •"• We give them appointments to come, and they do not keep them. The invariable excuse is—whether it is true or not I cannot say —" Teacher would not let me come." I think that, some investigation of this question might be made with advantage. I should next like to point out that this alarming prevalence of dental disease in this country, which is keeping the children back and means a serious loss of efficiency to the country as a whole, is practically entirely due to ignorance on the part of the children, on the part of their parents, and on the part of their teachers. We now., know from work which* has been done of recent years in connection with this question that dental disease and oral disease generally—the " minor surgical " complaints, the suppurative conditions in the mouth —may be eliminated almost entirely by physiological means alone —that is to say, if the children and the people are given knowledge as to what the disease is and how it is brought about, and the means whereby it may be physiologically combated, how the state of natural immunity to the disease may be brought about. We may say with practical certainty that if this were recognized universally we should in a very few years reach a condition in which the percentage of caries would be the exact reverse of what it is at present—instead of having 98 per cent, of children
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with diseased mouths, and 2 per cent, with clean mouths, I am convinced we should have the conditions practically reversed. It seems to me that the only way to reach the whole of the people of the, country is through the teachers and through the elementary schools. Personally I think it is the bbunden duty of every educational authority to teach the children in matters of health and hygiene. I know that is recognized by the Education Department in this country to a very large extent, but unfortunately this very important matter is not given that attention which it deserves. What I propose as a practical remedy is that, firstly, there should be lectures given in all training colleges to all students, and that this course should be compulsory. I notice from the curriculum that the care of the teeth, I think, or oral hygiene is one of the optional subjects, but in view of the national importance of the question I think it should be made absolutely compulsory. These students should be taught the rudiments of the cause of disease and the physiological means of combating it; they would then be able to impart this knowledge in a suitable form to the various standards they are teaching. Further, we think that those teachers who are already in charge of schools should receive some such instruction at the present time, in order that the work may not be delayed. Further, I think, in view of the fact that this is largely a matter of diet, and that by diet the disease may be largely eliminated, the question should receive very careful consideration in technical schools, more especially in connection with classes in cooking, &c, for girls. Now, with a view to helping forward any steps which may be taken in this direction, the Dental Association is preparing a model lecture on the subject, which will be right up to date, and will contain all the most recent findings and authentic research work on the subject; it will be well illustrated, and if necessary we shall be prepared to supply lantern-slides for further illustration. We shall be glad to place these at your disposal for the institution of this instruction which we desire to see given in the primary schools. It has recently been estimated that the economic loss owing to carious teeth in a country like England, for instance, set down at the lowest minimum, is at least one million and a half of money per annum. In a country like this it would probably be something like a quarter of a million a year as a minimum ; I think it would actually work out at a very much higher figure than that. 3. Mr. Wells] Do you suggest that this model lecture be delivered by members of your association ?—I suggest that the lecture should be delivered by the teachers themselves. Ido not think it is practicable for dentists to attend the schools and deliver this lecture as often as it should be given. It should be given separately to each individual standard. I think the members of the association would probably attend and instruct the teachers. 4. Will that lecture include instruction in the matter of diet ?—Yes, to a certain extent. 5. Mr. Kirk] It is your opinion that the decay of teeth in New Zealand is greater than in England ?—Certainly. 6. To what do you attribute that ?—Largely to the use of soft starchy- foods, to a more luxurious diet, and to the absence largely of natural forms of diet containing natural organic acids, such as are used more in the older countries and b} 7 Native races. Things, for instance, like fruit and green vegetables are eaten to a minimum extent here. I have travelled through New Zealand, and lam astonished at the time people in this country will exist without organic acids in that form. 7. The primary cause is diet ?—Largely. That is not the only cause ; there are other concomitant causes. 8. But the main outstanding cause is diet ?—Certainly. 9. When- do you. propose to have this model lecture ready ?—lt is in course of preparation now. We were sitting as a committee several hours last night trying to reach a conclusion, and it will probably be ready in a few months. 10. Mr. Wells] With regard to diet, do you think that its effect upon the teeth is largely owing to the large amount of meat that is eaten here ?—Yes, I think that has an effect. It is a very extraordinary fact that the two greatest meat-eating peoples in the world at the present time— Australians and New-Zealanders, who eat something like 250 lb. per head per annum- -are those whose, teeth have the largest number of caries. Those Native races who eat least meat and most fruit, salads, and green vegetables, and so on —such as the southern Asiatics —show the least prevalence of caries. 11. Mr. Davidson] Do you think that the difficulty of allowing children to go away from school might not be got over to some extent if the Education Boards and School Committees were appealed to and a circular issued drawing the attention of teachers to the very great importance of the children's teeth being attended to ?—I think probably that would meet the case to a very large extent; it would help. 12. You spoke of the necessity for making the subject of the care of the teeth compulsory, and of the absolute necessity of giving lectures to the students in the training college. Who, in your opinion, would be the best lecturer in, say, the four centres where we have training colleges ?—I would suggest that it be referred to the local branch of the Dental Association to select the most suitable man in the centre. 13. You think your association would co-operate with the educational authorities in the selection of the most suitable men to lecture to these students ?—I most certainly think so. And 1 certainly think—this is my 7 own opinion, and some of the members of the association may not agree with me — that men giving such lectures should be paid a reasonable fee for their services. 14. Is this question of the care of the teeth of such pressing necessity that it would be wise—-at least for a time —to appoint one or more travelling dentists to educate the public up to the importance of the matter ?—The scheme would be good, but it would require, I think, many dentists to do it. I think it would be better carried out, by the teachers themselves after they had been given lectures in the individual centres. 15. Could it be arranged that some member of your association might lecture to teachers who could meet at a centre, apart from the students of the training college ?—I am sure that could he very well
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arranged. I may say that it is possible that steps will be taken by the Medical Inspectors of Schools to examine the children's teeth also, and then we shall have very valuable statistics indeed to show the people of the country the very appalling state of the teeth. William Richmond Hursthouse examined on oath. (No. 217.) I. The Chairman,.} What are you ?—I appear- here as one of the deputation from the New Zealand Dental Association. 1 think this Commission has had evidence which goes to prove that our schools are improperly ventilated. If this is so, you will see that the air must be in a very bad state owing to the condition the teeth of the children are in, and that means that the children who do look after their teeth and who have clean .mouths suffer, in an indirect way. from the evils of decay, along with those who suffer in a more direct way. The first intimation a child gets of decayed teeth is sensitiveness or pain, and if nothing is done it is not long before the child gives up the normal function of chewing on account of that sensitiveness, and directly that stage is reached it is disastrous, because the cleanliness of the mouth depends more on its being used for its proper function than on anything else. If the child is taken to a dentist before the decay has reached the sensitive part it can easily be repaired, and the tooth fulfil its normal function and the child masticate its food again. I think that if the country could do something to restore and keep the mouths of children in a functional state it would do an immense amount of good. WTien they are in that state there is a simple method of keeping them clean and to a large extent preventing decay, which 1 think could with advantage be practised at the schools, and that is to get the children to rinse their mouths with fresh water when they get to the schools. Decay is largely due to food substances remaining about the teeth and the food fermenting, and if the mouth is well rinsed, with fresh water it will do a great deal to remove the food. The question of how something is to be done to improve the present state of things is a very serious one, and I think that whatever is done should be done in connection with the general hospitals, or else that separate dental hospitals should be established. It is necessary, in order to do a great deal of the work for children, to have general anaesthetics, in which case it is wise to have a doctor to administer the anaesthetic while the dentist does the operation. Captain Alfred Charles Cornwallis Stevens examined on oath. (No. 218.) 1. The Chairman.} What is your official title ?—Staff Officer of the Junior Cadets for the Dominion. 2. Will you kindly submit your statement to the Commission ?—1 have the honour to submit for the consideration of the Commission my views on Junior Cadet training generally, and with regard to Major-General Godley's criticism of same in particular. Before doing so allow me to make my position perfectly clear. lam an officer of the New Zealand Staff Corps, and as such a subordinate of Major-General Godley's. 1 am, however, seconded for special service with the Education Department (my original appointment was made by the Minister of Education), and I am responsible directly to the Minister of Education. It has been suggested by the G.0.C., I believe, that this position is an anomaly, but I respectfully beg to differ. Between 1901 and 1904 1 was a Political Resident in Northern Nigeria under General Sir Frederick Lugard, and although a very junior lieutenant of the Royal Field Artillery I took seniority to military officers in my district years my senior in age and also in military rank. I was seconded for political work for five years in that case, and in the present case lam also seconded for special work. In .the former case my controlling Department was the Colonial Office, and in this latter case the Education Department. In giving midence, therefore, before the Commission I do so not as an officer in the New Zealand Staff Corps under the control of General Godley, but as the Staff Officer for Junior Cadets under the Minister of Education. Having made my position e'ear I will proceed to criticize General Godley's evidence as disclosed in the Evening Post of the 15th July, 191.2. General Godley humorously suggested that Junior Cadets had been put under the Education Department to protect them from the Defence authorities, but that legislators had defeated their own intentions, for they- got more military drill, probably from the Junior Cadet Department than they would have got from the Defence authorities. This is a very one-sided view, and one not supported by facts. The time allowed for drill at schools is one hour per week, and half of this time is devoted to physical exercises. With half an hour per week only it is impossible to do a. very great deal of military work. Quoting from the Evening Post I see the General says, "On arrival at the age of fourteen years a boy 7 was handed over to him. Logically he could not accept anything a boy had done up to that time, therefore he had to start afresh.'' It is just this attitude of ignoring our work as Junior Cadets that I wish to emphatically protest against. It is inaccurate for the G.O.C. to say that he has no knowledge of the work of Junior Cadets. The Junior Cadets have paraded with Senior Cadets and Territorials (and old. Volunteers) during the past few years on all ceremonial occasions. Their work is public property, and I think it has been universally 7 admitted that Junior Cadets have acquitted themselves well whenever asked to appear in public, and official appreciations have been forwarded (vide letter from Colonel Adjutant-General, New Zealand Defence Forces) to this office by His Excellency the Governor and others. So much for ceremonial occasions, which, after all, are the culminating result of careful individual instruction in schools. The G.O.C. goes on to say that he has to " retrain Junior Cadets because he has had nothing to do with what they had done in military training." The G.O.C. must be aware that Major McDonald, who really is the father of the Junior Cadet movement, is a reliable officer ; the fact that he has been selected for special training in England is in itself proof that he is considered as above the average in ability. Tho G.O.C. knows that Major McDonald was the Commandant of Junior Cadets since their inception, and that the lines on which, he w 7 orkcd were probably sound. Since Major McDonald's departure to England I have acted in his place. Ido not propose to say much about my own capabilities, but I may say
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that I have had practical experience of soldiering with British troops in four different countries, and that since 1 have been Staff Officer in chaige of Junior Cadets I have never had any personal criticism of my control of affairs levelled at me, although I feel inclined to regard the G.O.C.'s evidence before the Commission as reflecting seriously on my ability, and that of the nine picked instructors under me, and the Junior Cadet Department Staff generally. The results of Junior Cadet training are published annually in the form of a parliamentary report for any one to see, so that I do not see that 4t Is difficult to find out what we do or how it is done. The Junior Cadet organization is referred to as a " bogus " one, and " Officers carry titles who do not hold commissions." In reply to this allow me to say that the Salvation Army wear uniform and carry military titles, but no one. I feel sure, would on these grounds wish to interfere with their good work or place them under the Defence Department in order that their officers might acquire a proper military air, or send their bands to " Kneller Hall " for instruction before allowing them to perform in public. The average Junior Cadet officer realizes that he is a civilian. He knows that he has not got a commission, and that he is only " appointed." The title he carried only holds good on Junior Cadet parades. There is, however, another class of Junior Cadet officer who is anxious to obtain military status —namely, the man who, having carefully and conscientiously acquired military knowledge by reading and practice, presents himself for examination. If he passes for a lieutenant at present he receives the substantive rank of lieutenant in the Reserve of Officers ; if, however, he passes for captain or any higher rank the corresponding substantive rank is not allowed by the Defence authorities. This has given rise to great discontent amongst a certain section of Junior Cadet enthusiasts, and it is to this that the G.O.C. refers when he says that certain officers of Junior Cadets desired military status. Personally I think this difficulty can be easily overcome by throwing open as freely as possible commissions to schoolmasters in the Territorials and Senior Cadets ; they could thus get the military status they are so keen on. Than schoolmasters I do not believe better material exists for officering a citizen army ; they are intelligent, used to handling boys and youths, and accustomed to discipline. The G.O.C. makes certain suggestions for Junior Cadet training, viz. : " For boys under fourteen years he would make the training physical drill with a very little military training, and include certain portions of the Boy Scout training in the syllabus." With these proposals up to a certain point lam in hearty accord, and I practically make the same suggestions in my parliamentary report of this year, but I wish to make the point o. " demilitarization " very clear. I consider squad and company drill should be retained at schools, and be done in uniform too. There are twenty thousand Junior Cadets in uniform in New Zealand, the Department has £27,000 invested in equipment, and this equipment is of no use to any save Junior Cadets. I recommend that battalion drills be abolished, but that the battalion organization be retained. The present toy gun, weighing a few ounces and costing 35., referred to by the G.O.C. frequently as a " rifle," and which is only used for drill purposes, might be dropped, as also officers' swords. Miniature ranges should be retained, as a boy cannot be taught too much about how to handle firearms and avoid accidents, apart altogether from the desirability of teaching the principles of correct shooting. The G.O.C. says, "In Australia the Junior Cadets are not allowed to wear a uniform and they are not given rifles." This is right in a measure, but before compulsory military drill came in Junior Cadets, I understand, did wear uniforms, and they paid 12s. 6d. each privately for these. Owing to the enormous expense Australian Junior Cadets at present are not equipped, but no doubt they will be later on. I personally do not see. why because Australia lags behind we should " mark time " in New Zealand. New Zealand leads in a good many things, and in mv humble opinion we lead the world with regard to.this Cadet system at schools, and other countries would do well to imitate us. Lord Roberts, writing to me personally not long ago, referring to the .Junior Cadet system at schools, said, " I wish we had something of the sort here in England. , ' The Junior Cadet control, General Godley says, might well remain under the Education Department. With this view lam in entire accord. It would be a fatal mistake to place us under Defence. The point has been fought out for years by Major McDonald, and it is certainly upheld by teachers from one end of New Zealand to the other. To place us under Defence would be to introduce dual control. Having dealt with General Godley's criticisms, allow me briefly to say how the Junior Cadet system is carried out at present,, and on what lines I suggest it should be carried out in future. For the personnel of the Junior Cadet Staff I would refer you to the schedule of the parliamentary report for 1912 attached. With the exception of Major McDonald (Commandant), who is now struck off our strength, the personnel remains the same. The nine instructors referred to are all picked men. live being New Zealand Artillerymen and four N.C.O.s from British regiments. All are young, active men who have specialized in physical training both before and after joining the Department. These instructors are stationed at the four largest centres, and visit schools within a ten-mile radius. They further organize and conduct weekly classes for teachers at other cities ; also, whenever possible, volunteer camps of instruction are held in vacation times to get at the backblocks teacher who could not otherwise be touched. These camps are for teachers, and no Junior Cadet is ever taken into camp now. I personally inspect as many schools as I can during the year, see the Cadets at work, and also, since I realize the vast importance of physical work and deep breathing, try to turn out every boy and girl in the school and see the teachers and pupils give a practical demonstration. My office-work, I regret to say, keeps me in Wellington far more than I would wish, but nevertheless I managed to cover a good deal of New Zealand in the course of a year. Proposals for new training : The new system of physical training which I would like to see introduced in the public schools of New Zealand should be universal. It should embrace every boy and every girl, and be systematically taught and results recorded in conjunction with the medical inspection at schools already authorized. There should be a physical Director and a central organization to control this physical movement, and I respectfully suggest that the present Junior Cadet system affords at once a good medium for. economically and effectively carrying out this movement. We have 30,000 Junior Cadets at 1,260 schools, and 1,200 officers
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We can make use of these officers, who do not receive emoluments for their work, as at present. Our Headquarters Staff are, all trained in the class of work that would be asked of them, and the cost to the country 7 is comparatively small—viz., 160,000 school-children, approximately, could be dealt with for £6,000 or even £5,000 per annum. I consider that (a) local experts should be subsidized ; (6) the Junior Cadet instructors should be put through a thorough course under an expert ; (c) one or two of our present instructors should be sent to Sweden for special training ; (d) teachers' classes should be formed at normal colleges, men under a male expert, females under a female expert ; (c) teachers' classes should be conducted at as many centres as possible ; (/) camps should be held for male teachers in term holidays whenever possible ; (g) lectures and demonstrations should be systematically given at schools ; (It) results of training and of each individual child should be carefully recorded once a year. It may be urged that lam not sufficiently expert to be a Physical Director. Ido not See that this follows. A man in a larger way as a carpenter need not necessarily be able to put in a window-sash as well as his foreman, and it does not necessarily follow that a general can shoot as well as a private. I have all my life been a keen athlete, and since being with Junior Cadets have given the subject of physical training special attention and have made a study of it, and I am quite ready to inaugurate a satisfactory system in New Zealand if given adequate support. I know local conditions, and that is half the battle. Import a Swedish expert and it would take him as long as it has taken me to acquire that special knowledge. lam strongly in favour of sending two New Zealand instructors to Europe for training, or, failing this, subsidizing the services of local experts who have come to New Zealand with credentials from recognized schools in physical training in England, Sweden, Switzerland, and elsewhere. A uniform handbook of training should be adopted, and an ideal little book exists in the " Set of Physical Exercises for Schools," published at 9d. net by the Government Printing Office in London, which is used extensively in England and also at primary schools in Australia. The exercises are graduated and progressive, and the book is profusely illustrated with actual photographs of children. I have collected a lot of expert opinion on this book, all of which to date is entirely favourable. In conclusion, I consider our present " Regulations for Junior Cadets " require entire revision and modification. They were compiled before the compulsory military trainingcame in, and suited the times. Now, " Tempora mutantur et nos in cis muntamur." The Territorial and Senior Cadet is with us, and the Junior Cadet syllabus of training must be made to co-ordinate with the general scheme. This I maintain can be done without total demilitarization, or any very drastic alteration of our present system and organization, or without throwing £27,000 worth of equipment on the scrap-heap. I have lately had a mass of correspondence from teachers all over the country deploring the " proposed demilitarization of Junior Cadets," if only on the ground of discipline, and I feel sure from the bottom of my heart that it would be a grievous mistake to do away with Junior Cadets. The general opinion is that such a measure would be a retrograde one and set the schools back fifteen years, so far as discipline is concerned. lam personally prepared to resign my military rank if I may see the movement through which I have foreshadowed, and I most respectfully leave it to you to make the strongest possible recommendations you can on the lines I have sketched out. 3. Mr. Wells] You refer to Major McDonald as the founder of the movement, as if he had been in command since its inception. Is not that wrong ? —No. The old Public-school Cadets were trained by Major Loveday, but in March, 1908, the Public-school Cadets were turned into the Junior Cadets, and the Government took over all their assets and liabilities. 4. That was merely a renaming of what had existed for years under another name : no material difference was made ?—lt was a new system brought in. It was a haphazard affair, more or less, before. 5. Mr. Pirani] What experience of Cadets had you had before you came to New Zealand ? —I have had no training actually with Cadets, but I have been a soldier all my life. I had practically eighteen months' training under Major McDonald as his staff officer. 6. Was that your first appointment in New Zealand ?—Yes. 7. You were not in any civil or military employment ?—Not under the Government. I came out here to try and better my position. I was appointed as a civilian to that position by the Minister of Education. I was placed on the Reserve of Officers on the strength of my good credentials from my regiment. 8. Do you know if any Cadet officers were led to expect that they would get commissions by the Military Department in New Zealand if they took up the work of the Cadets ? —The present regulations provide that they shall. The Act provides that they shall, but the Defence Department have brought in regulations overriding the Act; but until the Act is repealed the Cadet officers have every right to expect that they shall get commissions. 9. As a matter of fact they are not recognized ?—That is so. The Defence Department brought in regulations overriding the principal Act. 10. You said that General Godley criticized the Junior Cadets and said they used rifles. I do not know whether you say that he told the Commission that they used dummy rifles ?—We used to have a miniature rifle, '310, but they have all been called in and handed over to the Defence Department. The only rifle they have now is one that weighs a few ounces and costs 3s. There are miniature rifles. We have £250 worth of trophies which are competed for throughout the schools of the Dominion. All the shooting for these is now done on the miniature ranges. Previously the Cadet shooting used to be done on the big ranges. 11. Do you disagree with General Godley that fourteen is old enough to commence military training for military Cadets ?—I disagree. The boy of twelve at school is under discipline, and it is not right not to take advantage of it.
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12. You Say that half an hour a week is all that is given in the schools to Cadet work. Are there not other occasions, when you take battalion drills ?—We never have them unless it is for ceremonial occasions. They are not so much drills as practices, and had we not been called out by the Defence Department we would not have had them at all. I was asked about my experience of Cadets. I was at an English public school and was a Cadet. I afterwards went to the University, and have risen right through the ranks as a Volunteer. 13. The Chairman] At what age do they take Cadets in.England ?—The position is different there. Each school has its own little corps, but it has absolutely no military organization. Sometimes these corps go into camp and are quartered alongside soldiers for manoeuvres. 14. Mr. Kirk] The General's view was that if the schoolboys came to him fresh, without having gone through company and battalion drill, there would be a greater impetus to the Senior Cadet movement amongst these boys than is the case at present, by reason of the course that the Junior Cadets had gone through ? —Looked at from the General's point of view that is so, but that is because the Junior Cadets' work is entirely ignored. I think anybody would concede that it was entirely wrong to take a boy who by hard work at school had risen to be a colour-sergeant and put him into a recruit class. Such a thing breaks that boy's heart. If, on the other hand, it is possible to recognize the work and draft the boys accordingly, and later on to surround them with companions who are at the same stage of advancement, it would do away with that feeling entirely. The ignoring of the work of the schools and putting every one on the same level is the cause of the dissatisfaction arising. 15. What would you give a Senior Cadet when he arrives at fourteen years of age ?—lt should be possible with the time at their disposal to do as practice work what we are doing at the schools. It is not necessary to keep them eternally turning and forming by numbers. 16. Your idea would be to reduce the training-age from twenty-fi\ 7 e to a younger age ?—No. I say we ought to make our syllabus at the public schools a little less than now. More time might be spent on physical work, and a little of Baden-Powell's training for Boy Scouts might be introduced, and just teach the elements of military drill and without arms. 17. Would not there be the same necessity then to keep the boy from twelve to twenty-five in this Territorial work ?—I think the time might be reduced. If you started earlier you could leave off earlier. 18. Mr. Wells] You stated that if General Godley's suggestions were carried out, in your opinioii it would set the discipline of the schools back fifteen years : what grounds have you for saying that ? —I am quoting from a letter, which I have authority to make public property, from Mr. Ashman, Principal of the Normal College, Christchurch. lam making use of a statement of Mr. Ashman's. 19. Supposing that less military work is taken in schools and greater attention paid to physical exercises, can you, for your own part, see why the discipline of the schools should Buffer ? —ln order to be able to do this physical work you must have a good grounding in ordinary military work, otherwise the boys cannot understand about formation, fours, and extending. Then, the mere fact of a boy wearing a uniform and having an officer over him causes that boy instinctively to fall into the ways of discipline. These little fellows just love the uniform, and as for the jersey Ido not know anything better in which to do physical drill. 20. The Chairman] Why should it be urged so persistently that in order to bring a child on you must dress him in military garb while in tender years ? Is it not better,that as much time as possible should be given to the cultivation of the physical side of the boy in order that when he gets to more mature years he can do that military work better than he would do it otherwise ? —That is what I am advocating ; but I do not think we should abolish military drill entirely—the two should be combined. I think it is generally recognized that a boy wants a little military drill. 21. Mr. Davidson] Was that letter of Mr. Ashman's to which you referred written before or after General Godley gave his evidence '? —Before. 22. Major-General Godley's statement was that the. Junior Cadets should be demilitarized? — That is so. 23. Do you think that physical drill for the Junior Cadets would cost what the Junior Cadets are now costing, £8,000 a year ? —I am this year asking for £6,185 for the Junior Cadets. 24. Would it mean a reduction in the expenditure if the military part of the training was dispensed with and physical training only given would cost less, undoubtedly. We are insuring 20,000 sets of uniform at £1 per head, so that you see each boy's equipment is valued at £1. If cert.in portions were done away with and the officers' swords, it would, of course, reduce the amount very considerably. 25. Would you require as many instructors as you have now ?—1 think that very possibly we should want more. We. should want some female teachers, I think. 26. Would you still advocate the use of the miniature range ? —Yes, and I think in that General Godley concurs. 27. Mr. Kirk] Are the members of your staff sufficiently qualified to carry on the physical training ?—Yes. Before closing I should like to read the following letter received by Major Robb (Onehunga), of the Auckland Junior Cadets, from Colonel Wolfe, and which was forwarded to me with authority to use : " District Headquarters, New Zealand Military Forces, Auckland, New Zealand, 30th May, 1912. —My dear Robb, —I had little time to speak to you on parade on Tuesday, but I now write to express my appreciation of the very fine performance of the Junior Cadets on the parade. ' Honour to whom honour is due.' Your Cadets were magnificent. I have never seen a finer performance wherever I have been. When one considers the danger of our Empire at the present time, when one considers the help that can be afforded to the Mother-country by the readiness for war of the oversea dominions, the hearts of all true Englishmen, Britishers, colonials, or whatever one may call them,
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must bound with pride at the spectacle of last Tuesday's parade. ' God and the King ' is the watchword, and I feel that this is the cry of all true Britons. Let the motto of your Junior Cadets be ' Excelsior ' ; let them realize that they are coming forward as the first fruits of the Empire for defence. The Empire, 'great as it is, is unaware of its latent strength. I conclude, all success to the Junior Cadets.—Yours very sincerely, G. C. B. Wolfe. —P.S. —Tell your Junior Cadets that Colonel Wolfe looks upon them as his sheet-anchor. They have never failed him on parade. He will carry away with him kindly memories of their loyalty."
Friday, 19th July, 1912. George Hogben further examined. (No. 219.) 1. The Chairman] Will you kindly continue your statement ?—I submit to the Commission some of the geographical and historical illustrations which the Department is providing for school use, and also process engravings of notable pictures for the adornment of school-walls. These pictures can be supplied to School Committees at cost price, not exceeding 2s. 6d. each. We also propose to distribute free to schools which take the agricultural course a chart showing the vegetable diseases and insect pests, with their life-history and appearance, with the formulas for their treatment, so that people having access to it could buy the requisite chemicals from chemists, or even procure them from merchants and make their own mixtures. This chart has been prepared by the entomologists of the six Australian States in conjunction with Mr. Kirk, the New Zealand Government Biologist. To town schools we shall be prepared to supply these at the bare cost to the Department. I also hand in copies of the proposed new forms of claim for handwork in schools. These are to replace Forms 3, 4, 5, and 6 of the present system, and Form " Education 8," Part 3, copies of all of which are also submitted. This substitution will also replace part of Form A, leaving only five forms in all for handwork, while the new forms are much simpler than the old. The next point on which I was asked for information is as to the salaries paid to nurses. I have not yet obtained a return from the hospitals, but I have those that relate to the Departments of the Public Service that employ nurses. In the mental hospitals probationer nurses are paid from £75, with a deduction of £30 for board and lodging, and the salaries run up to a maximum of £110 for first-grade nurses, with the same deduction. In the normal course it takes a nurse eight years to work up to the maximum. 2. Mr. Davidson] At what age do they enter the service ? —At twenty-one, though the Department prefers to get them at twenty-three, and as a matter of fact that is about the average age. The nurses under the Education Department, as distinguished from the inspectors under the Infant Life, Protection Act, enter at a minimum of £70, subject to the deduction of £30, and the maximum is £130. There are three grades, but at present there are no first-grade nurses. The visiting nurses are above the first grade. The Matrons in mental hospitals are divided into four grades, with salaries ranging from £115 to £190, again subject to the board-and-lodging deduction. Matrons under the Tourist Department receive from £170 to £190 in the first grade —in which there is only one nurse at present — and from £150 to £165 in the second, with the £30 deduction in each case. In this class the Education Department has two grades —first grade £150 to £165, with the deduction of £30 ; second grade £115 to £130, with the same deduction. Sub-matrons receive from £95 to £105, with the deduction. The hours of actual work of these nurses are not more than eight per day, but there are times when they are not allowed to leave the institution in case of emergency. They are on leave from Saturday to Monday morning once in three weeks, and they get two half-days a week also. At an early stage in the Commission's proceedings I was asked to prepare a statement showing the principal increases in the cost of education, and I now do so. The number of pupils receiving technical education in New Zealand per 10,000 of population is very much higher than in Great Britain. Secondary education is also higher than in any other country that I know of with the exception of Germany and Switzerland. The Commission, on the motion of Mr. Davidson, asked me to furnish a statement showing the cost per head of the pupils attending sole-teacher schools in the years 1900 and 1910-11. The figures are as follow :In 1900 —Average attendance, 22,418 ; average cost, £3 17s. 3d. 1910 —Average attendance, 22,793. Salaries—Average cost, £6 3s. 2d. ; capitation, 12s. ; relieving teachers, 6d.; manual and technical, Is. Bd.; free school-books and Journal, 3s. 4d. : total £7 os. Bd. In 1900 the maximum average attendance for sole-teacher schools was forty or more, and in 1910 the maximum attendance for sole-teacher schools was thirty-five. I was also asked for the cost of Native schools, most of which are not bigger than the Board's sole-teacher schools. The cost per pupil in Native schools is £6 17s. 9d., but in that is included the cost of stationery and advertising (last year £20 ss. lid.), which are not included in the case of single-teacher schools, and also the whole cost of fuel. It is hardly possible to make a comparison of the two classes of Schools, because in the Native schools we provide assistants at a lower stage than in the ordinary primary schools, for the reason that English is to the young Maoris a foreign language and more individual teaching is required, and in these figures all the Native schools are taken into account. Another point on which information was desired was as to the salaries proposed to be given to the secondary teachers at the district high schools. The suggestion is that for an attendance of from twelve to twenty in the secondary department the salary should be £165 to £180 ; twenty-one to thirty, £210 to £240 ; thirtyone to seventy, also £210 to £240. Second secondary assistants in schools from thirty-one to seventy, £150 to £180. Those salaries are as high as those of the corresponding positions in the secondary schools. I would amend the Act by reducing the payment to the headmaster of a district high school from £30 to £20 in schools with an average attendance in the secondary department not exceeding twenty, or perhaps even in all district high schools. The probable cost of the net increases for the first year would be about £772, and there would be finally an increase beyond the present salaries of about £1,250, which would benefit about fifty-two teachers.
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3. Do you think that a district high school should be maintained when the average attendance has fallen as low as twelve ? —lf it fell permanently to twelve I should say not, but it may fall to twelve and then recover itself. If in that case you dislocate the machinery of the school there will be difficulty in starting it again next year. 4. But for twelve pupils the salaries alone come to £200. It seems very expensive for the State to gay at that rate ?—The total cost per head for twelve is about £17 10s. It is clear that if the number fell below twelve only temporarily it would pay to keep on the school if you had not means of conveying the pupils to a high school somewhere near. The most noticeable case in point is that of Arrow. If they had not got the school at Arrow the only possible chance of secondary education for the pupils would have been to give scholarships to every child who was worth it. When you have ascertained that there are a sufficient number of pupils who are worth it you should have a district high school. A certain number of the pupils may be regarded as possible probationers and teachers after they have gone through their course, so that you may consider part of the cost of small district high schools as part of the cost of the training of teachers. There would have been real hardship if we had closed the Arrow District High School. Another return which was called for was one showing the several branches of the Department, their cost, the work done by them, and the explanation of the work of the Department in five-year periods from 1891 to 1911. I now hand in that statement. We have no record of the number of letters dealt with by the Department in the year 1898, but it was probably not less than 10,000. We know that the number sent out last year was over 112,000, and it is probably nearly 120,000, without the packets which are sent out at examination time. 5. Mr. Wells] How do you account for that ?—Because of the increase in the amount and character of the work. I now come to the various points on which evidence has been given by other witnesses which call for an answer' from me. First, as to the training of teachers and cognate subjects. It is not desirable to reintroduce the pupil-teacher system. The number of probationers should be increased. No probationer should be appointed who has not had at least two years' Sesondary education, and if possible the period should be three years. They might be appointed from any approved schools. Their hours should not be increased. Ido not think there is any need to increase the payment to them. The number of probationers should be regulated by the prospective demand for teachers. As to the training colleges, agricultural instruction, so far as it is an extension of nature-study, should be compulsory for all teachers. All male students should take a second year for work of a more advanced character. Selected students should go for a year if possible, but not less than three months in any case, to the agricultural college, and places should be reserved there for teachers. Home science to Some extent should be compulsory for all women students in the training colleges. There should be for-all students training in phonetics. As to certificates, the conditions as to science requirements are in my opinion absolutely necessary, but we should provide sufficient facilities for the practical work in Science of all candidates for teachers' certificates. 6. How do you propose to do that ?—I think the present £4,000 a year is enough for the purpose, if you alter the conditions of its expenditure. It is now being spent largely in training woodwork teachers who never teach. 7. With regard to the science requirements, and more particularly with regard to Class C, do you not think that the eighty-hours requirements are a difficult matter for teachers in the backblocks to comply with ?—Not for the small number of C candidates that there are in the backblocks. 8. Do not a number of country teachers endeavour to get their C certificates in order to improve their chances of removal ? —There are very few who otherwise reach Class C among those who are out of reach of the railway. There are very few that, independently of science, come near getting the C certificate. 9. Will not the requirements block those who do want to qualify ?—I do not think there is any difficulty. Those that do want to qualify could be paid their expenses to come in to the centres. We shall have to let the Boards spend part of the money in the payment of relieving teachers for this class of people. The Boards would not be inclined to send their ordinary relieving teachers for this purpose. 10. I have knowledge of a few teachers who have gone to country schools to better their positions and so secure promotion, and I am afraid that the enforcement of the eighty-hours requirements will make country service more unpopular than it is at present ?—Not if we are going to pay to bring them into the towns for training. 1 I. Will it be possible to hold the classes for practical work in country centres—for instance, in the Auckland District in such places as Whangarei, Hamilton, and Thames ? —Yes ; anywhere where there is a laboratory, or where a temporary one can be provided. Ido not see any practical diffic: lty about doing it. It will cost a little more, but it would be a shame to pretend to give the certificate without it. 1,2. Mr. Kirk] As to phonetic teaching, is a partial system of phonetic spelling advisable, or even a complete system ?—I wrote an article on that subject some six years ago. I think there should be some movement towards phonetic spelling, but it is impossible to carry such a change all at once. Where there is now a choice of spellings, or where a reasonable choice could be allowed, I think we should take what would be most nearly phonetic. There ought to be more phonetic teaching in the schools, for the sake of proper speech. All the dictionaries the children use ought to contain a simple phonetic pronunciation of the words dealt with, so that a cheap dictionary of even ten thousand words should tell the child the proper pronunciation of the words. When they get into the way of using the phonetic keys that are in the dictionaries, and thereby get used to the phonetic method, it will be easy for them to change to phonetic spelling- as soon as the authorities give their sanction to it. It is argued that by adopting phonetic spelling we should lose sight of the derivations of words, but the fact is that with regard to many 7 words we have lost trace of the derivation because of the present
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spelling. For instance, the word ordinarily rendered as " scythe " should be " sithe." It was spelt " scythe " from the mistaken idea as to the derivation. It is the same with " rhyme," which should be " rime," but because somebody or other thought it was connected with " rhythm " in its derivation, which is not so, we spell it with " rhy," which Skeat says is a most absurdly erroneous spelling. There are other spellings, such as " could," of which " coud " was the regular spelling up to the fifteenth or sixteenth century ; it is not like " should," where the " 1 " belongs to the word. 13. In view of the fact that children are punished in school for not using the conventional spellings' in such words as " centre," " programme," " catalogue," and so on, could not a series of words be drawn up for which optional spelling could be allowed ? —lt might be done, but there is the matter of prejudice to contend with. The prejudice is so strong that it is very easy to ridicule those who adopt the reform. Personally I should be prepared to face the ridicule. A well-educated man would not care if any one laughed at him for spelling " though " " tho," but whether most people would face the ridicule is another thing ; if they will not you cannot so easily carry out the idea. But I think we might make a beginning. If, for instance, the word " labour "is spelt without the "v" it should not be counted as an error. 14. You consider the time is now opportune ?—Yes, for making all the changes we can. 15. The Chairman] But we should make them gradually ?—Yes, and meanwhile educate people to a knowledge of phonetics. You want to do that for other purposes ; you want to do it in order to teach them to speak correctly ; you. want to do it in order that they may have a means of reference in a dictionary to the proper pronunciation of words they did not get at school. Then, I think there, should be more liberal salaries for the junior teachers in normal schools. I think every teacher on the staff of a normal school should be capable of directing and criticizing the students in teaching the classes that he is in charge of, and therefore there should be higher salaries. Next, with regard to the training of secondary teachers, I think it is highly desirable that every teacher on the permanent staff of a secondary school should be a graduate. Then, if he took his degree before he went to the training college—which he ought to do—one year in the training college, employed only in professional subjects and observation and practice, would be quite sufficient. He would not be studying academic subjects, he would be acquiring knowledge and practice in professional subjects only. The training during that year should be accompanied by—and if necessary followed by—observation of selected teachers in secondary Schools. I think that that would be sufficient training. His general training need not be different from that of a primary teacher. That leads me on to the next point, brought out by several witnesses —on which I did .not express an opinion before—that we should increase the facilities for all students of observation of selected model teachers; we should give them greater opportunities, outside the training college, of observing selected teachers.. And in extension of this system I think we could give leave of absence —and in some cases bursaries where out-of-pocket expenses are heavy—for observation in the Dominion or abroad for both Inspectors and teachers. I think it would be unnecessary to send teachers abroad who were not conversant with the best that was being done in New Zealand already. Obviously the number we could afford to send abroad at any one time would be very small. 16. Mr. Wells] You would pay their travelling-expenses ? —Yes. 17. Mr. Davidson] When you say ; leave of absence" y 7 ou mean on pay ?—Certainly. 18. The Chairman] Would you make it a reward for special services ?—I would make it a reward for special services where they were going to make reports. It would benefit the teachers in one district to see the teachers in another district in New Zealand. 1.9. Take, for example, the Wanganui Infant School: would it be an advantage to other infantmistresses to see the design and lay-out of that building ?—That was one of the things I was thinking of, and there are good model schools elsewhere. Then, too, it need not be confined to the teachers ; the architects might be given a chance. What it cost the Board they would save on the next building very often. 20. When you were abroad did you discuss with authorities in Canada, for example, the possibility of teachers being allowed to go to the schools there and see the actual work and assist in it ? In British Columbia I was told they would willingly receive any New Zealand teacher ?—-In some places, yes. At the Imperial Education Conference we discussed the whole question of the exchange of teachers. A special committee was set up, of which I was a member, and I was asked to present the difficulties and advantages as far as Australasia was concerned. The difficulties of exchange are practically insuperable. Take the headmaster of a school of six hundred here ; the London County Council would not let him go into a school of six hundred in London. In fact, he would probably only get —I was going to say—the leavings of the candidates in England. He would not see so much as he would if he were to travel round and observe schools of various types. We came to the conclusion that such a man could not get the sort of work he ought to get. In order to see much the best thing was for him to travel round; in fact, these travelling bursaries would be far better than any system of exchange. If a man is good enough to send Home, it does not matter so much whether he takes a position as a teacher as long as he is allowed to ask a few questions. The next head I come to is staffing. The increase in staff might be given a little more quicker than it is now, but caution is required. You do not want to give an increase of staff for an unstable increase in the school, otherwise your contract with the teachers assumes rather a difficult form. 21. Mr. Wells] Do you not think you can trust the Inspectors in that particular I —Yes ; that is what I should be inclined to do. Ido not think you could make the regulations more liberal, but I think you could insert a clause leaving it to the recommendation of the Inspector. Even Inspectors are human, and if the headmaster and the School Committee were very insistent 22. But do you not think that if that responsibility were placed on the Inspectors they would take due precautions ?—lf the Inspectors were under the Central Department, and were absolutely
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independent of the Committees, there would be no difficulty whatever; in fact, a great many other difficulties might be overcome. I think an improvement in the scale of staffing is highly desirable, too, but I would warn the Commission that it would be extremely costly: it would be costly, especially, because the cost of living in New Zealand is comparatively high. As the cost of living in New Zealand is high, it necessarily follows that the cost of education in New Zealand appears high in proportion to the facilities we give. 23. Mr. Davidson] Where would you make the improvement in the scale of staffing ?—By far the most important place is in the infant classes. I should like to bring the scale down in the infant classes to thirty pupils per teacher ; indeed, I should like to bring the number down very much lower, but I do not think anything lower than that would be within the sphere of practical politics. Another point : the infant-mistress might occupy a defined position on the staff irrespective of the rest of the scale. That was my original proposal in 1901, I think. 24. Mr. Wells] You agree that she should be the best-paid woman teacher in the school ? — Well, if you leave the rest of the positions on the staff open the Board might be able to pay another woman more, but that would not lessen the infant-mistress's salary. 25. Do you think any woman teacher should draw more than the infant-mistress ?—I do not see why a woman teacher should not be the head teacher. The best head teacher that I saw in New York was a woman —far and away the best. Again, Ido not see why you should not put a woman in the position of first assistant, but I would not let the infant-mistress suffer because of it. 26. The Chairman] Would you not make the position of the infant-mistress defined and her salary fixed ? —I would not necessarily say that the first assistant in a school should not be a woman because you had an infant-mistress already. 27. Take the case of the Richmond School in Christchurch, where a lady was infant-mistress, and was transferred by the Board itself to teach certain standard work. She taught that, standard work so well that on occasions when the headmaster went away she was practically given control. Then the Board put in. an infant-mistress, and the lady in question has not been allowed to go back to her original position ?—I should like to consider the matter apart from any personal considerations like that. I know that lady. I inspected that school originally myself, and I believe I recommended her promotion. I know all about her former work in the school, but Ido not know the recent facts sufficiently well to be able to criticize that particular appointment. I should not hke to base a general conclusion on a case like that. 28. Mr. Davidson] There is nothing in the Act to prevent any Board at the present time from giving such a woman the salary of the first assistant or the second assistant, is there ? —No. As I say, I would have the definite position for the infant-mistress, but that should not prevent a Board appointing a woman to any of the other positions. That is my point. 29. The Chairman] But if the infant-mistress goes to the other position she takes the salary attaching to it ?—Yes. 30. Mr. Wells] You would throw all the positions on the staff open to men and women without distinction ?—No, I would not. If you do that the women's salaries will go down. I do not think it is desirable they should go down lower than they are now. I think you must still make some regulation like this—that at least three of the first six assistants must be women. 31. Mr. Davidson] Would you go so far as to say that one of the first three must be a woman ? —If you have already secured the infant-mistress that is one in the first three. 32. Then you would not retain that condition—that there should be one woman in the first three ? —No ; I would make it three out of the first six. 33. Leaving the option with the Boards to appoint a woman either as first, second, or third assistant, apart from the infant-mistress ?—Yes. The Board need not make them first, second, and third assistants ; they can put them as fourth, fifth, and sixth if they like. You have secured one thing for a mistress already ; the women could not be any worse off than they are now. There would not he any greater restrictions on the powers of the Boards. If this position was assigned the salary of that of the present second assistant the additional cost would be about £4,000. lam not quite sure that it is necessary to give that in all cases. I think there should be a graduated scale for this infant-mistress right through the scale, but I do not think it need always be that of the second assista it; lower down it should not be any lower than it is now. I want to put one point with regard to stiffing before the Commission. If we could staff our schools so that the maximum number of pupils in a class was forty we could then satisfy these other conditions : (I) Give 15 square feet of floorspace per child, as asked for by the medical men ; (2) give 210 cubic feet of air-space per child—lo ft. more than was asked by the medical men ; (3) use single desks of proper dimensions, graded according to the size of the children ; (4) we could satisfy the conditions as to light. 34. The Chairman] Ought not all those points to be carefully 7 borne in mind in building new schools ? —Yes, but you cannot satisfy all those conditions unless you reduce the number of children in a class to forty. This, I may say, is far more costly than all the other reforms put together. 35. Mr. Davidson] You could not tell us what the actual increase in cost would be if the maximum number of pupils was reduced to forty per teacher ?—I could get it out in a day or two. 1 will work it out approximately and let you. know. My next point is this : the salaries of teachers should be higher, but, generally speaking, this is not the most urgent matter. The improvement of the scale of staff is more urgent. The worry of a conscientious teacher is very largely due to the large size of the class —indirectly, I mean ; he does not worry because it is a large class, but it throws certain additional kinds of work upon him. The salaries of nearly all secondary assistants should be higher, both in district high schools and in secondary schools. With regard to free kindergartens, I think we should adhere to the present system, with a slight variation in the mode of payment, perhaps, until other reforms are made. Meanwhile kindergarten methods should be introduced everywhere into our
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infant schools-. T have always felt that that ought to be understood ;it is implied, in the syllabus. With regard to the syllabus and the regulations connected with it, I think the number of periodic ex ami nations should be reduced, or the precise number should not be prescribed at all. The only thing is that if you do not prescribe the number at all some Inspectors may require three term examinations instead of two—four examinations altogether. If you merely wish the number to be reduced, I should say you should alter the three examinations to two. I think it might be distinctly stated that, except the annual examination, they should be made less formal in character. As to the Inspector's examination, I think clause 9 might be modified a little to make it clear that the Inspector has power to examine individual pupils, though caution is necessary 7to prevent the reintroduction of the system of individual pass, which I think would be one of the greatest calamities that could possibly happen. I think it would be wise to abolish notices for certificates of competency in Standard V for all internal pupils. It should not. be necessary 7 to have them except for external candidates —people coming from outside and wishing to be examined —if for no other reason because the schoolmaster has got to make arrangements. Certificates of proficiency should include conditions as to history and geography. I am rather inclined to think that marks should not be assigned, but the subjects should be specially named. The pupils should be examined, preferably, orally. If in mathematical geography they had been examined orally and in a. simple manner we should probably have heard no complaints. As regards English, I should like to point out clearly that speech and not reading is the beginning of English. We do not realize that, because we have so long been dependent on the book. If we went to Europe or America we should realize that speech was the first thing, and that no particular trouble was taken about reading or writing until speech had been well taught. I should say that the first year and a good part of the second year should be devoted very largely to speech, and making the children talk about the things they do. The difficulty about formal writing and reading at this early age would disappear, because we should recognize that it was not the important thing. The children do something ; they play some game, and they describe it ; that gives the opportunity for speech. When the children come to reading and writing I think we should allow more liberty as to methods of teaching if the subject is well taught. As to the stage at which you should, expect anything very exact in writing, for instance ; personally, Ido not believe you can teach writing properly—l mean such writing as is required in the ordinary work of life—until the child's hand is formed. To. me a pen seems to be a barbarous instrument to put into the hands of a young child. You want to give to it, the instrument that it can use most easily—a pencil on soft paper, or chalk on a wall. Those are the natural instruments for a child, and he should be given the opportunity to use them. 36. Do you think it is necessary, now that we have the School, Journal, supplementary readers, and school libraries, that in each standard class there should be a miscellaneous reader ?—No. I expressed that opinion in my written evidence. To me the miscellaneous reader is an abomination, and I know it is to a good many children. 37. Do you not think that the present miscellaneous reader in the upper standards contains so much matter that children are unable to devote the proper attention to the School Journal and to other supplementary readers and other books ?—lt contains a large number of separate lessons, and the value of these separate lessons becomes exaggerated owing to the fact that the children are made to learn lists of spellings and meanings in connection with them. 38. If a small book of not more than a hundred pages, containing, say 7 , a dozen extracts from the best English prose and perhaps a similar number from the best English poetry, replaced the present miscellaneous reader, would that not be better ?—lt would be better. May I explain a plan I have had in my mind for some time ? Do away with all miscellaneous readers. Have one uniform reader for Standards I and 11, another one for Standards 111 and IV, and another one for Standards V and VI. Each of these would be much smaller in bulk than the present reader. They would consist of nothing but extracts of suitable prose and poetry of classic value, which a child could keep his whole life, and could love and revere.. There would be nothing but good prose and poetry, suited to the age of the child. These books could be used for recitation books too. This would he the only book I would compel a, child to buy. And he should not have spelling-lessons out of this book. If you give the child a book of good literature by no means allow any spelling-lessons or grammar-lessons to be set from it. 39. W r ould you have those extracts specially treated in a modern way from the point of view of literature, so that the teachers how to handle the extracts, or would they be merely extracts without any comment whatever ? —I think I should like to issue a companion volume to each of those volumes for the use of teachers. I would include in those volumes of extracts a few illustrations by good artists. If we cannot find such readers that exactly suit us, I should say get those I have indicated published in the Dominion. It. would be worth doing, though it might cost a little more than the. imported readers. All the rest in the way of reading-matter I should get through the medium of the school library, including the supplementary readers. 40. Do you know that in Victoria and South Australia these miscellaneous readers are not used ? The spelling, for instance, is taken from selected lessons in the School Journals ? —That does not appeal to me. Ido not believe in spelling-lessons, and never did. You do not teach spelling in that way, except with great pain. What I emphasize is the great mistake it is to make, so much as we do now of preciseness in the writing and spelling of young children. Current popular opinion regarding spellingis absurd. It is far more culpable in the eyes of the public generally to spell potato with an "c" than to say that a potato is a root, when it is nothing of the kind. To be ignorant of the scientific fact that a potato is a modified form of an underground stem is of no consequence, but to spell the word with an "c" at the end is an absolute sin. lam very strongly in favour of silent reading. Silent reading is especially suited for sharper pupils, who should in all subjects be shown how to learn for themselves
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rather than to receive instruction. With regard to English there is just one little point. I find that in the syllabus the distinction between active and passive has been omitted ; I think it should be inserted. That is the only addition I would propose. With regard to arithmetic, emphasis is laid now on oral and mental arithmetic. I should think it could be made even stronger, and there should be more practical treatment of the subject than there actually is, though there are indications in the syllabus that the treatment should be practical. I think the difficulty in arithmetic in Standard II arises principally from the interpretation and not from the suggestions made in the syllabus. 1 think, however, that there should be no division of money ir Standard II that cannot be done mentally. That would lighten the programme very considerably, I think. Complementary 7 addition should be insisted on more and more, or, else you will never get short methods. In Standard V I would take out interest and percentages. I would simplify the decimals. I would take out the references to the gram, kilogram, &c, but I would leave the meter, in order to give the simplest examples of decimals. I cannot imagine a much simpler example to give a child in the way of decimals than to have a meter divided into decimeters, centimeters, and millimeters, and to make him write down the different values as decimals of the meter. 41. Mr. Wells] Is the measure of length the only one you would take in the metric system ? — At that stage —in Standard V—and I would not introduce the gram until Standard VI. 42. Mr. Davidson] Is that all you would do in Standard V ? —Yes, I think that would be enough. Then I would simplify arithmetic in Standard VI. I have not written it out in detail; I agree with most of what the witnesses have said. With regard to geography, I would unify the course right through ;it has been unified part of the way. I would make it clear that the mathematical geography is to be simplified in treatment, but I would not take much of it out. Drawing I would bring up to date. All drawing in primary classes should be from actual objects. 43. You would have no diagrams ?—No. I do not say that diagrams have not their use at a later stage as copies, but. there is not time for both in the primary classes. The chief thing is to use drawing as a means of expression. I would simplify the geometrical drawing, reducing it to what is needed practically ; I would not treat it as if it were merely an introduction to formal geometry. With respect to physical instruction, I think we should recognize any approved course, but there should be inspection by experts. The important thing is that the Inspector should see whether the course is suitable. 44. With regard to these experts, would you have them appointed by the Boards as they are at present in, say, Southland and Otago ?—They are more than Inspectors ; they are instructors also. Where they exist I think the work of the other Inspectors of. physical instruction would be very easy. Very few Inspectors would be necessary for the Dominion. One for every Board would be extravagant, I think. 45. Unless you had a very much smaller number of Boards ?—Yes. 46. The Chairman] Supposing there were only half a dozen Inspectors, would that be enough for the whole Dominion ?—Yes. With regard to moral instruction, temperance has already been included in the draft made some years ago ; it should be included in moral instruction as well as in health instruction. 47. Mr. Wells] Do you approve of the insertion of the words asked for by the deputation the other day—" with special reference to alcohol" ? —I see no objection whatever to putting those words in. I think the lessons are already sufficiently defined by the wall-sheets that we have issued. Those sheets have been revised by two medical authorities —one the medical authority who writes the health article, in our School Journal —and they have been checked by 7 Sir Victor Horsley's book—the latest book on the subject. We can reprint the matter on them, if necessary, as a suggested syllabus at a future time, or reprint it in book form. With regard to handwork, I think it should be compulsory, but more as a method than as a subject.' I do not think pupils should travel long distances to attend handwork classes —I mean primary-school children. 48. The Chairman] To what would you restrict the distance they* should travel ?—lt depends on the mode of transit. I think they should be able to do it in their dinner-hour and yet have time for their meal. 49. They should not be away from their homes after 5 o'clock at night ?—No. If they had to travel such a distance as that I think it would be better to substitute some other branch of handwork that could be done in their own schools. is taken in a primary school because it is handwork, not because it is an introduction to carpentry. It is taken as a method, a means of training natural powers. I should say let the teacher take cardboard-work ;it does not require special benches. In cardboard-modelling the pupil can get the interpretation of the solid from the flat drawing; he can get all the geometrical ideas, and he can acquire a great deal of dexterity of hand and eye. So I should say that could be substituted for woodwork. And in a small school you need not have a complete course of kitchen cookery in order to teach the principles of domestic science; you can work with a kerosenestove. I think it is very desirable to teach cookery as a part of domestic science, but I would not take girls great distances to iearn it, or for long periods when they need to have two or three meals away from home. 50. Mr. Davidson] Do you think that woodwork and cookery, where they cannot be done outside ordinary school hours, should be taken at all ?—I think they are quite valuable enough to be done in school hours. 51. In some districts the children are away from their homes for from twelve to thirteen hours in the day : should the teachers and children be compelled to go these long distances and be so long away ?—No ; I entirely disapprove of cases like the Lumsden case.
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52. The Chairman] Is it not preferable to have a course of cookery in a school during school hours sufficiently comprehensive to deal with the needs of the children, attending that school ?—Yes ; I think it is only in large places where you can easily get to the cookery centre that you should have these centres at all. I think we should make the domestic science work done in the school simple in character. If it. were done by the ordinary teachers there would be greater co-ordination between that work and other work. In fact, I think it would be rather a good thing if, except where there were centres, we refused to pay a higher rate for an outside teacher. 53. Do you approve of the more general introduction of the sewing-machine into Schools as a means of teaching girls plain work—that is, the kind of work they will do in their homes later on ? Is it not to be encouraged rather than discouraged ? —I think there should be a sewing-machine in every school for demonstration purposes, but I would not have the pupils use the machine too much in the schools, because, after all, what you are teaching are the underlying principles, and you can teach those more easily when the child can see the thing done slowly and does it with its own hand. I will say that the children, before they leave school, should know how to manage an ordinary type of sewing-machine ; they should know the construction of it and how to put it in order. In fact, I would make all the home sciences very practical indeed. The next point is in regard to home-work. I cannot look at the question of home-work apart from the question of school hours. I think that our five hours a day for any child under twelve is quite enough without any home-work at all—that is, from the health point of view. I think a child under twelve years of age, after it has had its tea, and has had a little play and has perhaps been told a story, ought to be ready to go to bed. Ido not think, either, that there should be any formal home-work for the elder pupils in the Board schools. Ido not think there is anything to be gained by having any home-work except the reading of good books. I would question them about these books in the school, but not in a formal way. I would get them to tell the story. The point is to get them to read good books. Another point that is not sufficiently held in mind is that the hearing of home lessons in the school is mostly a waste of time. At all events, it is the most uneconomical use you can make of the teachers' time in school; much better work could be done in, that time. I consider, from what we know through inspection or otherwise, that the amount of home-work in the secondary schools, generally speaking, is excessive, and the remarks as to the uneconomical use of the teachers' time apply with still greater force in secondary schools than in primary schools. It is in some of the girls' secondary schools, I think, that the home-work is most excessive. 54. Mr. Pirani] What do you put it down to ?—To the fact that the boys give more attention to outdoor games than girls do, generally speaking. Ido not think all the schoolmasters in the world will make a boy give up his football for his lessons. He is an outdoor animal, and a healthy boy will play outdoor games. The consequence is that the teacher, consciously or unconsciously, has to give way. There is not the same strong force operating in the case of girls. 55. Do you not think that some of it is due to the fact that a number of the teachers in secondary schools are not trained, teachers ? —Partly that; but some of the trained teachers are as bad offenders as the others in regard to home-work. 56. Of course, you find that in the primary schools too with special teachers ?—Yes, but the work in the primary schools is more organized than in the secondary schools. I think the proper way to regulate it is by doing what is done already in some schools —by having a " home-work census," in which the headmaster without notice issues forms to all the classes for each pupil to fill up stating what homework he did the preceding evening ; the returns can be discussed at the teachers' meeting after being checked by them, and it can be seen at once what teacher or teachers set too much home-work. Of course, overpressure of examination is responsible for the desire to set home-work—no teacher wants to give himself or herself home-work to look over. I think only those should enter for the Matriculation Examination who really are likely to enter the University or require it as the preliminary step to a profession. It interferes altogether too much with the curriculum of secondary schools. It should be used as a University entrance examination, and for nothing else. I think we want to take away as far as we can the competitive character from scholarships. There is quite enough competition and emulation in life without introducing more artificially. They say it is a good preparation for the competition of life, but we do not want to introduce competition into immature lives too soon. If the examination for Junior University Scholarships are retained, then the requirements should be reduced. I agree with the Secondary Schools Conference that there is at least one subject too many. I think what we want to do is to encourage more and more the use of the accrediting system. Outside examinations now dominate the system far too much. Going into particulars, it is not reasonable to require the average pupil to do two foreign languages. One language, and one only, should be taught at a time in any case. You ought not to confuse a child by making him begin two foreign languages at the same time ; the first one should be a modern language, because the child has more ideas in common with those expressed in such a language. Vocational work in secondary schools I think should be more and more encouraged ; it does not present any danger to general education in my opinion. I may say that the accrediting system has been applied for years to the free-place pupils ; I should be in favour of applying it to those passing on to the University. In fact, I proposed a resolution in the University Senate some years ago to that effect which was only defeated on the casting-vote of the chairman. I think the Department's scholarship forms might be simplified, but not quite so much as has been suggested. We require to know for the information of Parliament what amounts are given for scholarships, and whether the amounts are of the nature of boarding scholarships or merely for books. But' I think we can simplify the form and reduce the work to half or less. I think the suggestion made by Mr. Cresswell is a valuable one and might be considered —namely, that a small fixed sum should be given to each secondary school to enable the small secondary schools to finance themselves. I think a good deal of simplification similarly might be introduced into the forms for the conveyance of pupils, but liberty of arrangement is already given—that is to say, the Board is not asked to spend on each individual
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school the amount granted for the school. It can spend less than the amount granted for one school and more on another, and can make any arrangement it 'likes within these limits. What is really meant, I suppose, is that they want a higher capitation. My answer to that is that under the scheme proposed in my evidence on Wednesday the whole matter would be left entirely to the local authority. They could raise money and get a subsidy on it, and out of that pay for the conveyance of children. 57. Mr: Davidson] Do you think that voluntary contributions raised for primary-school purposes should be subsidized just as voluntary contributions to district high schools and technical schools are? —Not for purposes for which grants are already given, or else you might be duplicating them. I would not give both a subsidy and a grant. I would give one or the other. 58. The Chairman] In cases where money was raised locally for the purpose of increasing the size of the playground would you be prepared to double the subsidy? —I do not believe in voluntary contributions of that kind from a locality. I believe in making the unwilling people pay as well as the others. 59. If a local body taxes itself for that purpose would you be prepared to liberally subsidize that effort ? —Yes, I would subsidize anything a local authority did for the benefit of the school. 60. Mr. Pirani] Do you not think it would be an inducement for a local body to rate itself for this purpose if instead of giving the ordinary subsidy you gave them an increased subsidy? — It would depend on what the purpose was. When you refer to playgrounds I consider it is the duty of a municipality to provide playgrounds or parks for its people. This is largely a question of health, and I am not prepared to say we should subsidize them because the school-children are going to use them. School-children only represent two-elevenths of the population, so you have to be careful what you are doing. I should not give a subsidy independently of the purpose for which it is to be used. I would not make the subsidy for playgrounds more liberal than it is now, because I think it is too liberal now 7 . I feel that the municipality is going to get more than its share of value out of it. 61. Mr. Davidson] I was specifically referring to the playgrounds round the schools, not for the general public?—lf the municipality contributes it will ask for the use of the playground. 62. The Chairman] In regard to the new training college, I am assured you are going to spend £25,000 on the building, and that there will not be sufficient ground attached to it for the young children and people who will be engaged in the building : is that not a great mistake?—lt is a question of how much you are going to pay. You cannot get suitable land near enough to the University College at a cheaper price. There is a park near at hand. There will be a playground for each section of the children, and a larger playground down below in the valley. They have got all they asked for. I believe in large playgrounds, but when you come to the question of subsidizing grants for playgrounds you have to be very careful or else y 7 ou will be really subsidizing the municipal authorities out of the education vote. The same point arises in regard to the drainage and sewerage system. 63. Mr. Wells] Do you think the cost of putting in the sewerage system should fall on the Education Board ?—No, it should fall entirely- on the municipal authority. It is nothing but a question of health. If it were done out of the ordinary rates they could not charge the Education Boards for it, but they put it on an extraordinary rate and then charge for it. 64. The Chairman] On the question of school residences, do you not think it is desirable to differentiate between a teacher who has a family and a single man ? I know the case of a man who had a large city school, and got a rental from the residence? —What are you going to make the basis of the salary, because it will apply just as strongly to the salary as to the residence? Are you going to base it on supply and demand, or on the work done, or on the burden that falls on the man who receives the salary? Under the South Australian system they deduct the value of the house from the salary, and I think that is the fairer way —they increase the salary and deduct the rent of the house from the salary when there is a house; but it was not found possible to do that very easily in New Zealand. Ido not think it will be easy to alter the present system at once, and I think on the whole it acts fairly. It has been the policy of the Department since the report of the Education Committee in 1903 to give a teacher an allowance rather than provide a residence, if suitable accommodation can be found for him. In regard to libraries and text-books, I have already explained my position as to text-books. I think there should be subsidies to Boards for school libraries; these school libraries should include multiple school readers —sometimes enough for the whole number in the class, and sometimes enough for that portion of the class put to silent reading.. I think the subsidies should be supplemented by the travelling system, but, as a rule, the travelling system is not so necessary in a school as it is* in a library for adults, because the children of each class change from year to year. It is only necessary in order to give the children a greater choice. The travelling system, I take it, need's no particular expert in charge of it. It can be managed by each Board giving to the teacher the date on which the parcel is to be forwarded to the next school. I think that if this were done we could do away with the present system of free school-books, requiring the readers I have named before, and the balance of the money not used for the school libraries might be used for the supply of paper in lieu of slates. At the same time I think that these charges should come, as I have said, on the local authority, their contribution being subsidized. As to overlapping, I spoke of that in my opening statement. The only thing I have to add is that this is most pronounced in Christchurch. There is not much overlapping altogether in the Dominion. 65. What about the Wanganui District High School?— That is not much. Ihe amount of overlapping in the Dominion is less than in any other country I know 7 of. No country- has less overlapping than we have. In Germany the amount of overlapping is greater, and they are not afraid of it. 66. Mr. Pirani] Would the Wanganui case occur if power existed under the law to alter it? -—No, it would not,
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67. The Chairman] Is it not desirable to take power to deal with a case like that?— Yes, it is. I think the Board, with the sanction of the Minister, should be able to disestablish the school. I have only one or two things to say about technical matters. I think there should be examinations in the Dominion to take the place of those held by the English Board of Education and the City and Guilds of London Institute, although we should not refuse to hold examinations for those people who may have to use their certificates outside the Dominion. We now refuse to hold an examination of the University of London for a person who is going to remain in the Dominion, because we say, "You have the University of New Zealand"; but if a person wants to go to Great Britain to take a certain degree or course he cannot take here, and wants to pass the preliminary examination, we hold the examination for the University of London, but only in these cases. 68. Mr. Kirk] What about the extra cost involved by duplicating the examination in these cases? —I think we should charge any one who wanted an examination for a special purpose what it costs us. Probably, instead of paying 2s. 6d. he will have to pay £1 10s., and I think he should do so. 69. The Chairman] Would such a Dominion examination as you contemplate do away with the difficulty mentioned in Wanganui, Dunedin, and Christchurch as to the non-recognition by the local authorities of the different local examinations for plumbers ?—Yes, but we should first have to pass the Plumbers Registration Bill. 70. Mr. Kirk] Is the cost of the London City and. Guilds Examination justified in the Dominion either by its results or the numbers sitting for the examination? —I think it is justified as a stimulus to the technical schools. It is one of the best stimuli we have. I think the stimulus a Dominion examination would give would be a very valuable one. We have plenty of sanitary engineers here who would act as examiners. With regard to compulsory attendance at continuation classes I only wish to add this : It is worth considering whether we should not make the absolute school age fifteen, not necessarily for the day school, as fourteen is at present, but that if a child left the day school before fifteen years of age he must, until he is fifteen, attend continuation classes for a certain number of hours in the year. I would not allow any local option in regard to that at all. I believe if you could get them for a year a great number would go on for a longer period. I would leave it as now 7 , by local option from fifteen up to seventeen years of age. I think public opinion is ripe for what I have suggested. As to co-education, I do not think that separation of the sexes is necessary or desirable in the primary schools, except for certain work, such as needlework and home science. I think that what is called " segregation " in America —that is, partial separation —is desirable in secondary schools in most subjects up to the age of about seventeen, and it becomes all the more necessary because the courses that girls take in the secondary schools should be more largely differentiated from those of boys. I do not see any necessity to separate them in English, for instance. Some of the work might be in common. 71. The intention of the teachers who desire separation of the sexes is that the teachers for girls should be women and for boys men. They contend there is closer sympathy between women and girls and men and boys, and that therefore better results would be obtained by the separation of the students. What have you to say to that? —I say it is true to a certain extent. It is most of all true in those subjects the girls would have to take under women teachers according to my idea, but Ido not think it is true in the subjects that boys and girls could take in common. I think the most essential thing there is that the teacher should love his or her subject, and that it is best, for instance, to get an enthusiast in English literature to teach English, whether the teacher be a man or woman, rather than that too much weight should be given to the other consideration. If you give the girls women teachers to teach them home science and all the subjects they should take separately the girls will be brought under a woman's influence quite sufficiently, especially if the teacher were what we used to have at the school where I was headmaster—a timetable master or mistress, so called because he or she looked after the, time-tables of their pupils, That master or mistress was the patron, so to speak, of the boys or girls, and looked after them in all matters. If a pupil got into trouble with lessons he knew that his parent, so to speak, within the school-walls was the time-table master or mistress, and he could expect to get some help by laying his case before this teacher perhaps as against another teacher, and the matter would then be a matter of negotiation between the teachers themselves or the headmaster and the teacher. You can provide for the girls being brought under the influence of women, and the boys under the influence of men, and at the same time give instruction in the subjects in which all should get special instruction. Not only do you increase the efficiency, but I believe the advantages are very great. You will make education less an artificial thing and school more like home. Boys and girls come together in the home. I cannot understand people who think they should be so differently trained in the schools. I think it is absurd; it is one of those things which make education unnatural. As regards economy, you would increase the cost very much if you insisted on separate education throughout. 72. Mr. Pirani] It would be impracticable in country- schools? —You could not do it except at untold cost. It would be outside the realm of practical politics in small country schools. 73. In country schools are not the boys and girls in much closer touch than in the city schools ? —Certainly the evils that are feared are much more likely to be found in country schools than in town schools. 74. Is it not a fact that the morality in the country is very much higher than in the towns?— Yes, it is higher, and it shows that liberty does not lead to vice. The danger can be said to be greater in the country only because there is less chance of supervision and there are not so many separate playgrounds. I think home science should be compulsory for all girls, and I think there should be a system of agricultural scholarships and bursaries.
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75. The Chairman.'] Has the time come in your judgment when the Lincoln Agricultural College should be duplicated in the North Island ? —I do not think it matters so very much where the college is. Of course, if we had another college it would probably be put in the North Island for convenience sake; but have we a very clear idea of what we are going to do in the agricultural college? I do not think agricultural colleges should be used for the training of farmers at.all, but.for the training of expert teachers and guides for farmers. In that case you do not "need a large number of colleges. As for the farmers, you must take the education to them. There are, say, 160,000 people engaged on the land in New Zealand, and we could never afford to train them in colleges, and therefore you should not attempt to do so. 76. Is one college sufficient to train the experts for New Zealand? —No, not unless it is two or three times the size it is at present. 77. We know that Lincoln College is taxed to its utmost capacity now? —Its management, having regard to what the College is trying to do, is pretty good at the present time; but they are not training the people I consider they ought to train. It is a sort of secondary school. I think they ought to be training teachers and other experts. 78. Mr. Pirani.] Is not the difficulty at the present time the inability to get local experts?— It is. Ido not wish .it to be understood that lam necessarily condemning Lincoln College, but its aim as an agricultural college is wrong, in my opinion. 79. Do you not think that promising students should be carried on from the secondary and technical schools to the agricultural college at the expense of the State? —Yes, and that is what I mean by higher agricultural scholarships and bursaries. 80. In this connection I suppose you know there, is something like ,£lO,OOO in the hands of the Public Trustee as an endowment for higher education in Taranaki which has never been used ?—Yes, but Ido not quite agree with that use for it. I think it would be diverting it from the purpose for which it was originally given by Parliament, and that is rather a dangerous thing to do. 81. Do you think that purpose is ever likely to be carried out? —I think it should be kept for the use of the University College district to which, that College belongs. 1 think you should find the money for these higher agricultural scholarships elsewhere. Then, with regard to the registration of private schools, I think that all private schools should be registered, and that there should be compulsory inspection of them. I think the requirements of the Act should be still more definite than they are at present. As to the existing public schools, the majority, I am bound to say, fall short according to modern notions as to lighting, heating, ventilation, and the character of the porch accommodation. They do not fail so much as to space. I think all plans of new schools should be approved by a competent central authority, and should be considered from the point of view of the architect, the medical officer, and the educational expert, so as to secure workable plans. I think two or three of our inspectorial staff could do the whole of the work, because they have to consider plans so frequently. We pass plans at present, but we have no power to compel the Boards to adopt our suggestions. I think hostels in secondary schools should be provided everywhere for pupils; the intermediate stage would be to license boardinghouses under suitable persons. 82. Mr. Wells.] What control would you possess?— They would be licensed, and a condition of the license, in my view, should be that the licensee should give board and lodging free to the supervising teacher. I think the Boards should take the responsibility and control of these hostels. Girls' hostels should give opportunities for practice in housewifery. The Department should provide, and is willing to provide at cost price, pictures for the walls of class-rooms. I have shown you samples of them. With reference to sexual physiology, I should like to say that the treatment of the subject as regards boys and girls is, of course, quite different. As regards boys there are two distinct dangers. There is the personal evil habit to some extent existing in all countries. With regard to that, one cause of the evil to boys previously innocent is suggestion, and there I come to the great danger of giving instruction in the subject to large classes, arising from the very fact that suggestion is one cause of the evil. I think that individual work with, boys is the only way to meet it, so far as physiological knowledge should be given in connection with it. That individual work cannot, from the nature of the case, be given by strangers; it must be given by some one in whom the boy has confidence—some one who knows about the boy. Given the knowledge it does not follow that you will stop the evil; moral training is absolutelynecessary. That moral training is alfthe easier in a good-toned school where there are older boys. The most efficient agent to my knowledge is the influence of older boys of good moral character. That is only another way of saying a good-toned school. As regards the other question, the evils that stand in front of the life of boys and girls—illicit intercourse —that is not so much a question of physiological knowledge on the part of boys as of the power of moral self-control that will stop it. There is only one thing for it, and that is a high moral tone of the individual generally. It is not a question of physiological knowledge at all for the most part. There is no royal road of attaining that high moral tone. It is simply a proper management of the school in regard to moral training. It cannot be got all at once. It is got by the whole influence of the school and home on the moral nature and character of the boy. If that does not succeed no physiological knowledge will help you. You may frighten some boys by a statement of the effects that will follow an immoral life; but, apart from that, and even in spite of that, the chief thing is moral self-control, and if you have not secured that all the knowledge in the world will not stop the evil. As regards girls, one question is that of the care of their own health, and it is quite right and fitting that it should be a subject of teaching in their lessons on physiology and hygiene; such teaching is best given by the staff of the school —of course, such persons on the staff as are suitable and well acquainted with hygienic science. As regards the other question, in which both sexes are concerned, that again is a question of moral self-control,
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and its treatment is the same. I think the best evidence the Commission has got in this respect is that of Miss Cruickshank, who got lady doctors who were acquainted with the girls to give a series of lectures. Those doctors were in the position of teachers. They had gained the confidence of the girls in. another way already, and they were practically in the position of well-qualified teachers. Personally I think there is more danger from general lectures than there is likelihood of good, but I know there are great differences of opinion, and it is difficult to be dogmatic. 83. The Chairman] If these lectures are treated in a way to direct girls to a better study of themselves, do you not think it would do a lot of good? —Yes, but I believe the lectures should be given by people in whom the girls have confidence, and not by strangers. 84. Mr. Wells] In the statement which you handed in on Wednesday you outlined a scheme for the control of education, and you say the new education districts should be coterminous with new counties: what new counties are they?-—I said "newly constituted counties" —say about sixteen in the Dominion. 85. Those are not the counties set out in the Local Government Bill? —No. There are twentyfour there. If there were twenty-four or thirty counties some of them could be grouped to form education districts. 86. You mention that in each district there should be two members elected by the primaryteachers of the primary public schools : do you mean that there should be two teacher members, or two from outside the profession elected by the teachers? —It is stated that no one employed in any school in the district is to be eligible as a member of the Board. 87. Then it is mentioned in paragraph (c) that two members are to be elected by all the other certificated teachers employed not less than twenty hours a week. In the proposed new counties do you think there would be many other certificated teachers?— There are a good many seconctary teachers and technical-school teachers. 88. In some counties there would be, but take the county that would exist north of Auckland City : do you think there would be a sufficient number of other certificated teachers in such a district as that to entitle them to be represented by two members? —Not in proportion, but I think the important thing is not so much to get them in proportion as to get a sufficient number of members on the Board capable of dealing with secondary subjects. 89. In North Auckland there would not be more than a dozen teachers? —Yes. There are the secondary departments of the district high schools. 90. Still, there would not be a sufficiently- large number to justify representation by two members, do you think? —No. It would come to very much the same thing if you said one secondary and one technical, but by putting the two together you assure the workableness of it. I think that each side of secondary education should have at least one member. 91. No matter how small that side?— These members would be capable of judging of primary work, too, to a certain extent. lam not tied necessarily to such a detail as that. What I want to secure is that the expert members are nearly equal in number to the non-expert members, but not quite —that is to say, that the rating authority- has a fair majority—six out of eleven. If you do not put the rating authority in the majority you would find great objection, made by the local authority when the rates were to be raised. 92. Then you suggest that the Inspectors should be under the Council of Education?— Under the Director of Education. 93. You suggested also that a Superintendent of Education should be appointed in each district who should inspect schools? —I contemplated he should be an organizer pure and simple, but in order to give him full powers of organization you must not limit him too much; you should give him the powers of an Inspector. It would not be his special business to inspect schools. He would be an organizer. 94. And an adviser to the Board on educational matters within the district?— Yes. In other words, under the Board, not the Secretary but the Superintendent of Education should be the chief executive officer. The chief executive officer of a Board should be an expert. My proposal does not make it mandatory, but simply provides that the Board may choose to do that. 95. Mr. Pirani] I suppose you are aware that it is almost impossible for a return of proposed teachers' salaries to be made to the Department before the first month's salary is payable?— Yes, that is so. 96. Do you not think it would be much better to pay the first month's salary on the same basis as the previous year, with a notification that the salaries would be adjusted before the February salaries were paid?— That is the case now. We make all payments to the Boards on the basis of the previous year, and we know that the Boards make their payments on the same basis, except where the adjustment is an easy one. 97. So that, as a matter of fact, what you call " mistakes of Boards " is really an adjustment of salaries? —No. Most Boards make their adjustments in the March payments, and they return them to us in time for the April payments. We pay them on the total of the December quarter, generally speaking, for two months, because very few Boards can get these returns in, and we do not think it reasonable to say that they shall get them in. Nearly every Board gets them in at the beginning of March now, and they claim for the three months on the revised scale, and their sheets are under the revised scale. 98.- It is not reasonable to expect, and yet on the 24th January the Department telegraphs complaining that the salary-list has not been sent in?— The lists are due in January, and all the telegram asks is that the Department may be advised when it may expect to receive the returns. They should be received by the Boards as soon as the schools close for the year. 99. You know very well they are not so received in many districts?—l know they are received in some districts, but they are not likely to be correct. We do allow a little time.
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100. You instanced the number of errors in the returns of the Wanganui District. Would you believe that ten of the errors you referred to were mis-spellings of Christian names? —No. The errors I quoted to you were where the amounts were in excess or in defect, 101. I will ask you to produce the paper, then? —I cited two lots of cases, thirty in one lot and forty in the other. One of those lots consisted of errors in amount. Sometimes there were errors in name, but an error in name is not unimportant. 102. You would not call that an error of computation, though? —No. 103. Would it not be better that an expert officer of your Department should go to the districts and himself see to these discrepancies, and so do away with all the correspondence?— Yes, I think so. 104. There is a complaint that the regulation in regard to the payment of salaries is not clear. There is nothing in the regulation to show that broken quarters are not to be included?— lliere is an implied condition that not less than one month shall be included. 105. Take a case where a school was opened in May, and the salaries calculated on the May number to the end of the y 7 ear, would you not think that under the regulation it was proper to calculate the attendance from the Ist May to the end of December as the, attendance on which the next year's salary should be paid?— You have to take the mean of the quarterly attendances. 106. But under the ruling of your Department May and June should not have been counted at all. It made all the difference of raising the school from a Grade 0 school to a Grade 1 school ? —I do not think the regulation is very clear. 107. In that case there was a mistake of £33? —In these cases, when there is a difference between the Board and the Department, I would probably go to the Solicitor-General and ask for an interpretation of the regulation in question. I have no doubt that in this case I followed that course, although I do not remember this particular one. 108. Was not the interpretation put upon fhe regulation by the Secretary of the Wanganui Board a reasonable one ?—Yes. The error was one of those I referred to as being practically inevitable. 109. In regard to the transfer of teachers, 1 suppose it is not uncommon for the transfers of teachers to be decided upon weeks before they are finally made? —That is so. 110. Say there is a teacher in a certain grade in a certain school, and it is decided in December to transfer that teacher to another school in the same grade. When the returns of the second school came in in January it was found that the grade of the school had dropped, and that the teacher was really transferred to a position below the one she had occupied. The 'Secretary in his return put the teacher's salary down at the amount she had received in the first position. Would you call that a gross error? —The Secretary has the average for the year, and when he sends in his return he has the facts before him. 111. But not the salary which is paid for the first month of the year, which is practically a copy of the return sent to you?— The Secretary of the Board by that time has the attendance return, and therefore can determine the grade of the school. 112. Do you not know that many factors are considered in determining the drop of the grade of a school outside attendance for the previous year? —Each Board knows the grades of the schools likely to drop, and if a school is likely to drop in grade it must have been dropping in'attendance before. The Secretary, no doubt, has got in figures the minimum attendance which will bring the school down to the next grade. If he has it cannot be a very long process to decide on the December attendance whether a school has come down in grade or not. 113. Take another case. Teachers have arrived at the maximum of their grade. Next year their schools have gone up a grade. Do they start in the new grade at the minimum, or do they go up £5 beyond the minimum? —That is a case I referred to the Crown Law Officers. They decided that the teacher commenced at an increase of £5 on the minimum. 114. The Chairman] WTien you find it necessary to appeal to the Crown Law Officers to get decisions on doubtful points do you communicate those decisions to all Boards ?—Not all round; only to the Board concerned. You would be giving the Boards a ruling in a hypothetical case, and that is a dangerous proceeding. 115. You could state all the facts on which the ruling was given?— That would have to be done. You must remember that the Boards have their own legal advisers, and it is quite contrary to legal etiquette that we should instruct, the Boards on law when they have their advisory officers. 116. Mr. Pirani] Do you not think it would be better in those cases, when reprinting the regulations, to put a note giving the Department's interpretation as conveyed in the ruling of the Crown Law Officers? —Yes. We try to improve the regulations so that they would incorporate not only all known law but all rulings, where there is any doubt, that in the opinion of the Solicitor-General would be case-law if a case was brought. 117. Can you tell me the total net mistakes made by one Board—say, the Wellington Board —in their returns? Have you any idea of the total net result of the adjustments in the Wellington District for this year : is it more than 2s. 2d. ? —An adjustment of 2s. 2d. proves nothing whatever; you might have £1,000 on one side and £1,000 2s. 2d. on the other. 118. It appears that the Government have not lost by it? —I did not say they 7 had. 119. Take this group of cases. An uncertificated teacher is getting £90 a year; the following year that teacher is still returned as getting £90; a fortnight after the teacher has been paid the Department grants a full certificate: would you say the Secretary made a mistake in asking for the £90 instead of £95?— You are using words that I did not use in my principal evidence. I distinctly said that I did not blame the Secretaries of the Boards. I said a good many of those mistakes are inevitable, but that does not make them any the less mistakes. The wrong amount of salary is shown for the current year. A good many of them are due to the want of information on the part of the Secretaries of the Boards at the time.
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120. Tn most of these cases, if the Department itself had the payment of the salaries, do you not think it possible that these very mistakes would occur? —Some; but it would be our duty to correct them afterwards. 121. We will take a case where your own Department made a mistake and reduced a teacher's salary wrongly. Take Okaiawa: have you got the sheet there?— Yes; the sheet is headed "Particulars of Alterations," not " errors." 122. You will find in that case that you reduced a teacher's salary when you had no business to do so. Do you think that is a proper thing?—We thought she was a new teacher. Her married name was given, not her maiden name, and the salary was not reduced. When we found out from the Secretary who she was we put it right; we had no means of knowing before. 123. Do you not know that there have been other instances where you have given the wrong salary—where you have decided, and the decision of the Department has been wrong and has had to be altered afterwards on the application of the Board?—lt is quite possible. The Department is not infallible. The Board has generally- given us subsequently other facts that have enabled us to see that the salary was right at first. 124. It seems that you want somebody to audit the Department as well as to audit the Boards?— That remark is not warranted. 125. But you say mistakes have occurred? —The setting right of these errors must be regarded as a matter of partnership between the Board and the Department. The two working together can manage to get correct returns; it is not likely that either of them alone can do it. The Department is not free from clerical errors, nor is any public body- that I have been associated with. 126. Mr. Davidson] Regarding that suggested Council of Education. Suppose the Dominion were divided into five education districts, that each education district had a Superintendent of Education, and that the Inspectors were under the control of the Central Department: do you think such a Council of Education as the following would be likely to give satisfaction—the Director of Education; the five District Superintendents; the five Chief Inspectors—that is to say, assuming there was a Chief Inspector for each of the five districts; a primary-school teacher for each Island representing the primary schools; a representative of technical education; a representative of secondary education; and a representative of the Universities? —I am rather inclined to think that, if the action of the Council is going to affect the expenditure, the number of non-official members is too large. For reasons I set out in my memorandum I think that if there were only five districts the districts would be too large. It would be a species of centralization. You cannot make five districts in. New Zealand each with common interests. That is my opinion. 127. But any one of the four districts other than Auckland would not be so large as Auckland?— Auckland is not, a district, with common interests in education. The interests of the different, parts of the Province of Auckland are very diverse. 128. Then you consider that the Auckland District at the present time is too large?—l consider it is too large not so much because of its size but because of its diverse character. 129. Is the administration of education in the Auckland District under present conditions not so satisfactory as in other parts of New Zealand? —It may be as satisfactory, because you may gain in some ways what you lose in others. But I know that the Auckland Board does not possess the close knowledge of the several parts of the district that is possessed by Boards of more moderate-sized districts. For instance, the office of the North Canterbury Board knows far more about its schools than the Auckland Board knows about its schools. 130. The Chairman] Is that not due to the ease with which the Inspectors can get about? The day may come when the far north of Auckland will be opened up as much as Canterbury is to-day, and that knowledge will be as easily obtainable?—l do not think it will give a common interest between Whangarei and Hamilton. 131. Mr. Davidson] Suppose the Dominion were divided into five education districts, and the present boundaries rearranged somewhat, would that not lesson the evil that you complain of as to lack of community of interest?— Again I am giving my own impression. I do not think it is possible by any rearrangement to get five homogeneous districts in New Zealand. I speak as one who has tried to group them. 132. Would one district be workable formed of North Canterbury and South Canterbury, Westland, and Grey?—l do not thinkrit is a homogeneous district. I only proposed that as an intermediate step. South Canterbury and North Canterbury are not very homogeneous. The southern parts of South Canterbury have more in common with Otago than with Canterbury. 133. What about, Southland and Otago being taken together?—l think there is more in common there than in the Auckland District. 1 rather feel it would be a mistake to go back in education to the old provincial system. 134. Assuming that it was deemed desirable to divide the Dominion into five districts, composed as follows: Auckland, with perhaps the boundary arranged slightly differently; Taranaki, Wanganui, and Hawke's Bay, with perhaps the northern boundary of Hawke's Bay slightly modified; Wellington, Marlborough, and Nelson; Grey, and North and South Canterbury; Otago and Southland: do you think the constitution of that suggested Council would be satisfactory as sketched by me?—l think, if you are going to make it an influence in determining the expenditure, the proportion of non-official members is rather high. If it ran counter to the votes of Parliament you would have practically a conflict between the Council and Parliament. You must make the Council so that Parliament would have confidence that the general interests of the whole community and the interests of those whose business was education were being looked after. I think the number on the Council is unnecessarily large. One weak point is that you do not have any representative of Education Boards,
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135. Do you not consider that the five District Superintendents would represent the Boards? —Yes, I did not think of them. That is an almost perfect representation of the Boards. 136. In what direction would you reduce the number of representatives? —I do not see how you could reduce them if you start with that constitution. 137. If they were unpaid members of the Education Council —that is to say, receiving no salary whatever, but simply their travelling-allowances to meetings to be held in Wellington — Ho you think it would be at all a costly institution? —What allowances do you mean? 138. The allowances suggested by yourself?—l do not think you could give a guinea a day to the Superintendents of the Boards and give to the Chief Inspectors only the allowance that is given to public servants. I think that with a slight adjustment it would bo all right—that is, give the Superintendents the same as you give the Chief Inspectors. I should say a suitable allowance would not be costly. 139. Do you think that body should meet, as you suggested, once a quarter, and at other times to be arranged by the Minister? —It is rather a large body to meet once a quarter, but I was thinking of the need for consultation. If we are going to give it the subjects I suggest for consideration it ought to meet at least once a quarter. 140. The Chairman] If it met half-yearly and at such times as the Minister directs, would that not meet the case?—l said "once in each quarter." As a matter of fact you could satisfy that condition by two half-yearly meetings. 141. Mr. Davidson] Can you point to any objection to the constitution of that Council other than it is too large?— There is only the suspicion, as I said just now, that the non-official element, if it had any direct influence on the expenditure, might be in favour of a greater expenditure than Parliament would be disposed to sanction. 142. Mr. Pirani] Do you not think that if an Education Board was willing to introduce kindergarten work into its infants' schools the same terms might be accorded to it as are given to the free kindergarten associations? —There is nothing in the regulations to prevent that being done. 143. You see no objection to it? —I see disadvantages; expansion might lead to its general adoption. If it were only done here and there it would raise no difficulties; but if it were done generally it would raise a financial difficulty, and should be considered as part of our policy by Parliament. 144. Mr. Kirk] But you consider it is the ideal state? —No, I do not. The ideal is to have the home such that there is no need for the children to go to school until they are seven. 145. But I take it your main objection to the kindergarten is the question of immediate expense? —Yes; but in any case I would not hold out too great an inducement to parents whose .children can get a passably good oversight and training at home to send them to school. I believe if the children live in the open air, and get a certain amount of direction to guide their natural activities, it is much better for them to go to school at seven. 146. The Chairman] At what age and where do you think the formal school life should begin? —I think about seven is quite soon enough, but that presumes they have been trained before. As to the care and education of the children under seven, it is the generally accepted opinion amongst many educationists that the home beats the kindergarten. 147. But in how many homes can you get a child looked after when the mother has to go out charing until 10 o'clock, in the morning?— You asked me about the ideal system. All the mothers do not consist of charwomen, not even those of the working-classes. 148. But we had it from one of the Principals of the secondary colleges that home life was so burdensome that the mothers could not look after the children?—l did not say so. 149. But I am telling you what we had in evidence? —But I do not believe the evidence. 150. But if, for instance, in this city there is no home life and no school life for many of these young children, where are you going to put them? —That is a difficult question. I believe our society ought to be reconstituted so that there should be no necessity for the mother to be away from the home. 151. But until that happy state of affairs is present what are we to do with the children?— Contrive the best makeshift we can; but it is not an ideal state of affairs. But do not contrive such a makeshift as will encourage them more and more to go away from the home. Do not relieve parents of the responsibility of their children too easily, or else you will have to provide State institutions for children. There wilf be parents in a sense, but no real fathers and mothers. I agree that we must provide kindergartens to meet a certain number of cases, but be careful what you do —that is all. 152. Mr. Wells] I understood you to say thai school-work throughout the Auckland District is quite as efficient as elsewhere? —I did not express any opinion about it; I dare say it is. 153. You would not deny that it is? —No, because I am not in a position to express any opinion. My opinion would not be based on my own knowledge, but on the few schools I happen to have seen. 154. One teacher has written urging that a school should be staffed on another basis than that at present, prevailing—namely, " a fairer basis on which to staff and pay salaries : (a) compute on the average roll number; no child to be counted on the roll unless present at least 50 per cent, of the times the school is open. A resolution to this effect was passed at a recent meeting of the Auckland Educational Institute saying that, as teachers are held responsible for all the children in their charge, it seems only just that their salaries should depend upon the number for whom they are responsible"?—l do not agree with that. If-you have a hundred teachers for five thousand children, and an average attendance of four-fifths of the roll number, you can give one teacher for every fifty roll number or for every forty of average attendance. It does not make any difference in the staffing of that school. You ought to take the basis least subject to variation, so as to keep the grade of the school as constant as you can, It is a matter of
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inquiry to see whether the roll number or the average attendance is the more constant. We have actually inquired into it, and we find the average attendance is more constant than the roll number; therefore we say the average attendance is the safer basis for the teacher and for everybody else. 155. Mr. Davidson.] If the Dominion were divided into five districts, and the Inspectors were placed under the Central Department, there would be nothing to prevent the Department having as many inspectoral districts as it chose?— There would be no difficulty in that respect. 156. So the objection to the departmental Inspectors not knowing the district would not stand? —It would not alter very much the value of the work of the Inspectors. It is the District Superintendent who would not be in such close touch. 157. The Chairman] In the course of the inquiry the method of the appointment of departmental Inspectors has been mentioned, and the suggestion lias been made in the Press that a certain amount of political influence has been used in connection therewith. I should like to give you the opportunity of telling Ahe Commission on what plan you appoint your Inspectors? —I can say at once there is no foundation, nor can there be any, for the statement that the Inspectors owe their appointments to political influence. 158. Mr. Pirani] Can you tell me what salary the Secretary of the Superannuation Board is paid and how it is paid?— The Department pays the whole cost of working the Superannuation Fund. The Secretary gets an additional £25 per annum. 159. Do you think that is at all commensurate with the amount of -work done?— You have to take into consideration the whole salary and the whole work together. Some of the work is done outside, but most of it is done inside office-hours; and, of course, while the officer is doing this work he cannot be doing other work which he might do if he were not acting as Secretary. 160. Does not this special work involve special work outside office-hours?—lt does not seem necessarily to involve that, but as a matter of fact it does; still you have to take the whole of the circumstances into consideration. 161. What pay do members of the Superannuation Board get?— Nothing at all. Nonresidents of Wellington get a travelling-allowance of 10s. a day. 162. Do you think that is sufficient considering the men and their positions?—l think if they are out of pocket they could bring the matter before the Board. I do not see any great question of principle involved. 163. Do you not think these charges should form part of the expenses of the Superannuation Fund?—lf they do you will still further diminish the soundness of the fund. It does not make much difference in the end, because the Government has to make up the deficiency for the triennial period next following each actuarial report. 164. Do you think it is a fair thing the Department should have placed upon it as part of the educational expenditure the salaries of Private Secretaries of Ministers outside the Private Secretary of the Minister of Education? —I do not; but at the present time we do not suffer any loss, because only- one Private Secretary is charged to our Department. 165. Mr. Poland] Has there been any actuarial report recently in regard to the fund? — The first report is now ready for Parliament, and the subsequent reports will be triennial. I think the fairest thing would be for the Superannuation Fund to show all charges.
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APPENDIX.
Owing to the limited time at tho disposal of the Commission, and to the fact that its itinerary was restricted to six educational centres, invitations wore issued to all persons who could not attend the sittings of the Commission to give oral evidence to forward their views in writing. A largo number of communications were received in rcsponso to this invitation, and thoy are now appended—many of them, owing to pressure of space and to tho fact that they deal with subjects already fully covered by the evidence, in a summarized form : — Auckland Education District. Educational Conference, 1911. — The Question of Overlapping. A conference called by the Auckland Education Board to consider the question of overlapping of primary, secondary, technical, and University education was held in the Training College, Auckland, on Wednesday last, 26th July. Messrs. G. J. Garland, G. W. Murray, and D. B. Wallace represented the Education Board ; Professors A. P. Thomas and F. D. Brown, the Board of Governors of the Auckland Grammar School; Mr. G. L. Peacocke and Dr. McDowell, the University College; Mi-. E. W. Payton, the Elam School of Art Trustees; and Mr. G. Hogben, Inspector-General of Schools, Education Department. Messrs. George George, Director of Technical Education; J. W. Tibbs, Headmaster of. the Boys' Grammar School; and E. K. Mulgan, Chief Inspector of Schools, attended by invitation. Mr. Hogben was voted into the chair, and Mr. George acted as secretary. It was decided, after some discussion, to hold the conference in committee, the Press to be afterwards supplied with & precis of the proceedings. It was decided thai the conference should discuss the following questions: — (1.) Overlapping between primary and secondary schools. (2.) Overlapping between primary schools and the Technical College. (3 ) Overlapping between secondary schools and the Technical College. (4.) Overlapping between the Elam School of Art and the Technical College. (5.) Overlapping between secondary schools and the University College. (6 ) Overlapping between the Technical College and the University College. Mr. Hogben stated that the att'tude of the Department was that, with regard to three out of the six headings—viz., Nos. 1, 2, and s—the overlapping was of so slight a character as to be practically non-existent. After briefly discussing the overlapping between primary and secondary schools, and between primary and technical schools, the conference then dealt at some length with the matter of overlapping between technical and secondary schools. In introducing the subject Mr. Hogben said the State ought to provide the training not only for the life-work of its members, but also for the making of effich-nc citizenship. Tne most, debatable kind of training was that of commercial education, and the principal point at what age the cadet should be received into service. In New Zealand there was no doubt he was taken too young. That was a great mistake, and in America it was recognized that trained' employees of mature age were more desirable than raw boys and girls. He hoped the same standard would be reached in New Zealand before long; meanwhile the present demands must be provided for, and it was much better that young people should be trained than untrained. Taking for granted that a boy bad passed the Sixth Standard, it was in the interests of everybody that he should spend the next two years at a secondary school. He would take English, elementary mathematics, science, and probably a modern language, with the rest of the school. This would occupy, say, three-quarters of bis time; the rest would be taken up by book-keeping, pre-is-writing and correspondence, economic geography, commercial arithmetic, and so forth. With a good course like tliac the commercial man would have nothing.to complain of, even at present, for tho boy would have got the ethical benefit of the school life, and a sound preparation for commerce. He thought specialized technical education should come at a later stage than that, and that was the attitude of the Department. With girls the case was a little different. Undoubtedly every girl, after passing the Sixth Standard, should receive a course in domestic science; but, at the same time, there was a very strong demand for commercially trained girls, especially as shorthand-writers and typewriters, and tnat implied specialized technical training. For the second stage of a boy's life, say from sixteen to eighteen, who was prepared to give another two years to education, ho did not think there was a secondary school in New Zealand which would be profitably employed in providing the highly technical education that an employer might reasonably expect from such a boy entering his office. This should be taken at a technical school. If, on the other hand, the boy is not going in for commerce until he is, say, twenty-one, he might stay on at the secondary sciiool for a, longer period, then take the B. Com. degree at the University. This course should also be open to those who had passed through the technical school. Mr. George said that the technical day school as carried on in Auckland provided for a sound general education with a bias in certain directions. For example, in the domestic-science course the girls, in addition to receiving a good general education, devoted a certain portion of their time to the special study of domestic subjects, such as cookery, dressmaking, housewifery, hygiene,
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physiology, &c. Such a course provided an admirable training for girls who wished to take up positions as domestic-science teachers, nurses, housekeepers, &c. Boys and girls who intended to enter commercial life in the same way received, in addition to their general education, a certain amount of training in book-keeping, business methods, shorthand, typewriting, commercial geography, &c, the boys also receiving instruction in woodwork and metal work, whilst the girls had a certain amount of domestic training. He considered that it was very necessary that girls who were going into commercial life should receive some training in domestic work, as they were generally the girls who married more readily than those who stayed at home, and if they did-not receive some such training they were often much handicapped when they had to look after homes of their own. In a similar manner a course was provided for boys which would give them a strong bias towards a trade or profession. All these, he considered, were modern secondary-school courses, and in each case extended over a period of two years. At the end of two years' training in one or other of these lines, specialized courses were provided for those who were prepared to stay at school for a longer period. Dr. McDowell considered there was a growing feeling on the part of the public in favour of more highly trained and therefore older employees. He referred to the junior examination held by the London Chamber of Commerce, the certificate of which was thought highly of by merchants at Home, and he advocated something of the kind here. Mr. Hogben stated that power was now given by regulation to issue three kinds of leaving certificates—viz., intermediate, lower leaving, and higher leaving. The first is given to students completing two years' satisfactory work as Junior Free Place pupils; it is also obtainable by -examination. Tne lower leaving certificate is for a three years' course, and the higher for four years. The intermediate is open to those attending a technical day school. At present we have no higher leaving certificate for a technical school. Mr. Murray thought there should be a conference between the teachers and parents, when a student left the primary school, as to what would be the best course for him to take up. In that way he thought a great deal of overlapping would be avoided, as the teacher would know best what school was most suitable for the boy and his future career. The public were not, as a rule, able to distinguish sufficiently between the curricula of the various institutions. Mr. Tibbs said that in three of the classes at the Grammar School a certain amount of commercial work was taught. For example, in the first year, commercial geography and the principles of book-keeping ; in the second year, to this was added shorthand. As a matter of fact, many boys left the school from this second year's class—the modern Fourth Form—to go into offices. They had a modern Fifth Form-at the school, but in this class boys ceased at their own desire to take commercial work. He noted with satisfaction that there was an increasing number of pupils who left the school at the end of two years to take up a specialized course at the Technical College, either in the day school or at the evening classes. He considered that there was no harmful overlapping between the Grammar School and the Technical College, and that both institutions were working in perfect harmony with each other. Mr. Garland, Professor Thomas, Mr. Peacocke, Professor Brown, and Mr. Mulgan also spoke on the matter. As it appeared to the conference that no injurious overlapping was taking place between the technical and secondary schools in Auckland, it was decided to next consider the question of overlapping between the Technical College and trie Elam School of Art. Mr. Hogben stated that he could not see any overlapping here at the present time. There had been overlapping, but that was a thing of the past. Would those who made the complaint say in what direction the overlapping lay ? Mr. George explained that for some years arc classes for teachers and in applied art had been carried on at the Technical College. During 1908, while he was in England, meetings had. been held by the arc students cf Auckland with the object of getting a class started for instruction in drawing from the figure. At the beginning of the next session the class was duly commenced, and received recognition from the, Department. Excellent work was done, but the following year the Department refused to recognize the class, stating that satisfactory teaching of the subject was already provided at the Elam School of Arc. Since then students had been debarred from receiving instruction in drawing from the figure at the Technical College. Professor Brown would like the opinion of the Department regarding two institutions teaching the same subject. Personally he did not like to see the yybole of the teaching of any one subject in any one individual institution. He preferred competition and differentiation in method. Mr. Hogben stated that the function of the Department was specifically defined in the Act in regard, to both institutions. The Act did not allow the Department to recognize exactly the same course in two institutions within five miles of each other. The Elam School of Arc was a public institution recognized by name in the schedule to the Education Act. In some cases there would be classes at the Technical College whose names would be identical with those of the Elam School of Art, but whose purpose would be different. There would, therefore, not be overlapping in the true sense. Mr. Payton said the Department had largely subsidized the school for the last fifteen years. It was under the inspection of the Department's officers, and their suggestions had been carried out. They were prepared to work hand-in-hand with the Technical School, and he had declined recently to start classes that belonged more properly to the latter institution. If there had been any overlapping it would be avoided in future. Mr. Garland moved, That, as there appeared to be no overlapping between the Elam School of Arc and the Technical College, the conference would not further consider the matter. Mr. George moved, as an amendment, That the Department should hold a special inquiry into the work of the Elam School of Art and of the arc department of the Technical College, and report as to the work which should be carried on at.each of these institutions.
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The amendment having been lost, Mr. Garland's motion was put and carried. The conference next considered the question of overlapping between the University College and the secondary schools. Mr. Hogben said perhaps a little overlapping existed here in the case of a Junior Scholarship class in a secondary school doing work in any given subject, some of which was equal to or above the- standard required for the pass degree in the University College. But it was done from a 'different point of view and for a different purpose, therefore this was not harmful and unnecessary overlapping. In one case the object was to get a scholarship, and in the other to fit a student for the University pass degree. Mr. Peacocke stated that he had heard it said that the Matriculation Examination was not quite high enough to enable pupils who pass it to take advantage of the first-year University course. Mr. Hogben explained that the Matriculation standard had now been raised, and that the revised regulations -would come into force for the next Matriculation Examination to be held at the end of the present year. In introducing the question of overlapping between the Technical College and the University College, Mr. Hogben seated that this was not a question peculiar to Auckland, but necessarily arises wherever a University College is doing some branch of technical work which is also being done in a technical college. The Department is not concerned with University Colleges except where it has to find the money, especially where the Manual and Technical Act comes into question. The work done must conform to the type and standard set by the University of New Zealand. The Technical School should generally be the body that trains apprentices and foremen. Managers could be trained either in the University or in the Technical College. The professional engineer should be trained through the University. Mr. Peacocke raised the question as to how far the Technical College encroached on the functions of the University. Taking engineering, it appeared that apprentices and foremen could get all their requirements at the Technical College, but the Managers should be fully equipped engineers, and the question is then open whether they should take the course in a Technical College or in a School of Engineering of a University College. That was the crux of the question regarding overlapping between the University College and the Technical College in Auckland. The limit between the two should be clearly defined, and young men should not be misled by thinking that when they have passed from the Technical College they are as fully equipped as if from the Canterbury School of Engineering, which was fitted up with the most elaborate apparatus and had a specialized staff. Mr. Murray said if the workmen and foremen were to be trained at the Technical College and the Manager at the University that would involve duplication of equipment, which seemed totally unnecessary. He was in favour of the Manager securing his training by practical rather than theoretical means. Professor Thomas thought that the equipment was nothing compared with the man and the teacher. University work must be carried out from a different standpoint. One teacher could not do two different kinds of work, and one atmosphere was incompatible with the other, and the mere fact that £10,000 or £15,000 had to be spent over again was nothing compared with the defects that would arise from the attempt to do the two things by the same means. Professor Brown concurred with Professor Thomas's remarks. He was of the opinion that the atmosphere of a University was quite different to that of a Technical College, and that it was impossible for the staff of a Technical College to do the work in the same way as it would be done by Professors of the University. Mr. George said the position was that certain subjects in mechanical and electrical engineering were required for the Mining degree. The School of Mines had been instituted at the University College, and lecturers had been appointed to give instruction to the mining students in the necessary mechanical and electrical engineering subjects. Application was then made to the Senate of the University to recognize the first year's course in mechanical and electrical engineering at Auckland as qualifying towards the Bachelor of Engineering degree in these branches. This the Senate of the University refused to do. It was then proposed to the Council of the Auckland University College that a diploma in mechanical and electrical engineering should be instituted. It was this proposal which had led up to the question of overlapping between the two institutions in Auckland. The Technical College had for some eight years been conducting elementary and advanced classes in various branches of mechanical and electrical engineering. The University College had instituted classes which, Mr. George contended, were of the same nature and directly in competition with these. He considered that what was wanted in this country was thoroughly practical engineers, men who had received not only a theoretical training, but also had gone through courses of instruction in engineering workshops, such as were provided at technical colleges. He thought that the University should be for matriculated students only. Professor Thomas criticized Mr. George's suggestion that the University should be for matriculated students. He considered that any one who wished to do so should be able to attend University classes, whether they showed their fitness by matriculation or not. Mr. Peacocke stated that the School of Mines' staff was willing to submit their courses to expert criticism, and prove that they were more advanced than those of the Technical College. Mr. George thought the proper test as to the advanced nature of the work was the examina-tion-papers, and he would welcome comparison between examination-papers of the two institutions. Many students, he stated, had passed the Third Grade in various engineering subjects of the English Board of Education.
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On the motion of Mr. E. K. Mulgan it was decided that it should be a recommendation to the authorities concerned to confer with each other before undertaking any courses involving work which might lead to unnecessary overlapping. A hearty vote of thanks to Mr. Hogben for presiding terminated the proceedings. Auckland District Educational Institute. Forwarding resolution opposing any division of tho Auckland Education District. Thames School Committees. The grants to Committees are too small, and are quite inadequate for provision of the requisites necessary for maintaining our schools in that state of efficiency which is so much to bo desired. Tho methods of instruction adopted in our schools during rocont years have rendered necessary tho uso of other and more expensive requisites in the way of school stationery and supplies than in former years. We are not able to provide such an amount as is demanded for keeping school buildings and grounds in proper order, as the cost of labour for this class of work has increased during tho last five years, whereas the grants have not been correspondingly advanced. In tho event of any extraordinary expenditure being rendered necessary wo have had great difficulty in obtaining special grants for such work from the Auckland Education Board. Wo are of opinion that tho purposes of education would be much better served if, instead of granting free books, School Committoos wore allowed an amount equal to the cost of these books to provide stationery and other school supplies. Tho fact that tho pupils are not allowed to tako tho free school-books to their own houses greatly reduces any benefit that is derived from thorn, and duplicate books have to bo provided by tho parents. Wo consider that the development of the bodies of the children attending our schools is just as important a feature of education as the training of thoir minds, and this can only bo carried out satisfactorily by providing large open spaces for their recreation. In our opinion the system of technical instruction in our district is not on such lines as to render tho teaching either popular or attractive. Long periods have been allowed to elapse without instructors being appointed for some of the subjects, and this has greatly militated against tho attendance of tho school. Wo arc of opinion that the city technical schools are administered at the expense of tho country technical schools. J. H. Turner, M.A., Chief Classical Master, Grammar School, Auckland. The educational value of Latin —or, indeed, of any other subject—depends largely on how it is taught. In the case of Latin this is so in more than an ordinary degree. If tho tcachor has proper ideals, and a clear notion of what ho is attempting to do, Latin will form a moat satisfactory subject for perhaps two-thirds of tho pupils that enter our secondary schools, and as for tho remaining third, while it is not advisable to try to teach them two languages, in my opinion Latin would bo just as useful as French. But it often happens that teachers, with no idoal beyond that of " getting through " such-and-such a text-book, are put in chargo of classes, especially of beginners ; tho inevitable result is that tho subject drifts into a dreary round of declensions, verbs, and exorcises, and that tho pupils soon lose all interest in their work. Now, if any subject is to bo at all profitable, tho intelligent interest of the pupils must be won and kept, and my experience tolls mo that if thoy are not as keen about their Latin as about any other school subject tho fault lies with the teacher and not with tho language. There are in the Dominion many teachers of Latin whoso methods arc on sound linos. I think that inexperienced graduates who are destined to teach Latin should first of all spend some months in being trained by such export teachers, unless, indeed, thoy can show that thoy aro pupils of such accredited teachers and aro acquainted with their methods. At present the unfortunate novice who proposes to teach Latin to his unfortunate class is introduced to them and the door is shut; he has to learn by years of experience, if over ho does learn, how to teach Latin. In tho meantim c untold mischief is being wrought while ho practises his art. D. S. B. Squires, Head-teacher, Hobsonville School, Auckland. Strenuously opposed the following recommendation of tho Auckland Teachers' Institute, viz. : " That the study of mathematical geography demanded more abstract reasoning than can be cxpocted from young children, and should be omitted from the syllabus." On the contrary, Mr. Squires contended that it would be a sad day for most of us and an incalculable loss to tho rising generation if this recommendation were given effect to. S. H. Macky, Waihi East School. Forwarded his opinion that the teaching profession is unattractive, and gave his reasons for tho same : (1) Inadequacy of salaries ; (2) method of staffing schools and paying teachers' salaries on average-attendance basis is both absurd and iniquitous. Mr. Macky urges that schools of Grade 10 and over should carry a salary of £450, exclusive of house allowance, and that tho salaries in the lower grades be raised in proportion. He suggests that a fairer basis on which to staff and pay salaries would be to compute on the average roll number, no child to bo counted upon the roll unless present at least 50 per cent, of the times the school is open. C. H. Mellsop, Farmer, Manureioa. Advocating practical book-keeping being made a compulsory subjoct for Standards V and VI in public schools.
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C. C. Howard, F.R.G.S., Dominion Road, Auckland. Wrote in reference to the relative injustice done to teachers who first retired on superannuation compared with those who retired a little later. In his own case, after thirty years' service, he was awarded £68 a year, although Principal in turn of the Christchurch Normal School and Wellington Training College. T. Isem,onger, Auckland. Statement of staffing of Epsom School (Grade 9a), with a roll of 535, which is totally inadequate to efficiently train tho children. George Wilson, Stanley Bay School. Forwarding statement of the staffing of his school (Grade 6b), showing that during seven quarters the school was understaffed for five quarters. J. S. Small, ex Truant Officer, Auckland. The Boards should not decide as to individual prosecutions of truants, but it should be clearly a matter between the head-teachers and the Truant Officer. (This is the system in force in the Wanganui Education District.) Tom Vivian, 'Ponsonby, Auckland. Suggests better school buildings and playground areas, attractive painting of buildings, and coloured pictures for school-walls. G. A. Rawson, Lower Symonds Street, Auckland. Brought under notice desirability of his being appointed at fixed salary to deliver course of scientific lectures in public schools, and forwarded copies of correspondence which had passed between himself and the Department. Taranaki Education District. H. Trimble, Chairman, Taranaki Education Board (supplementing his evidence). With further reference to my remarks at Wanganui in connection with this subject, I wish to state that I have again made inquiries with reference to those teachers in this education district who have attended the Training College, and find that my -statement that they are not altogether satisfactory is fully borne out. This Board's proposal with reference to setting aside certain schools in this district at which uncertificated teachers would be able to receive a certain amount of practical training was intended to meet the circumstances not so much of probationers, whose period of apprenticeship has expired, and who even if they did not go to the Training College must be assumed to have received a certain amount of instruction and experience in teaching, as those of the large number of only partly qualified teachers who, owing to the dearth of those having full qualifications, it is found necessary to appoint to the schools in outlying districts. Many of these teachers have had no previous experience, and would not be qualified to attend the Training College under the conditions of studentship set out in the regulations for Divisions A, B, or C, and even if qualified to attend as students in Division C would probably be unable to pay the fees and the lodging expenses during the term of studentship. Many of the teachers, no doubt, will never become efficient; these would be gradually weeded out and "their places taken by time-expired probationers, while the better ones would be expected to qualify for certificates, and would do so as better opportunities, both in the way of correspondence and Saturday classes, became available, whilst the scheme set out would provide practical training. E. Dockrill, Chairman, New Plymouth High School Board of Governors. The Board holds a decided opinion that it would not be conducive to the interests of the High School to transfer the control to the Education Board, or to substitute the work of inspection by the Inspector-General and his staff for that of the local Inspectors. Eltham and Stratford School Committees. Directing attention to' insufficiency of annual capitation allowance to School Committees. Miss May C. Mackay, Stratford, Taranaki. Directing the Commission's attention to the lack of encouragement to certificated teachers given by the Taranaki Education Board. R. Thomas, Norfolk School, Taranaki. Complains of the overcrowding and ill-lighting of schoolrooms, recommending open-air teaching. and the devoting of more time to reading. George H. Maunder, ex-teacher, School Committeeman, and Education Board member, Waiake, New Plymouth. The writing in the primary schools has not deteriorated, but it might be improved. Neatness, legibility, and fluency should be insisted on, and each pupil should be allowed, with such restrictions or conditions, to use his own discretion as to style of writing. The aim of a teacher should be to get scholars to think, not to cram facts or cramp fingers.
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Wanganui Education District. Rev. J. M. Dove, Principal of Wanganui Collegiate School. Among the secondary schools of the Dominion one class is styled " Endowed Secondary Schools not coming within the Definition of Section 89 of the Education Act." There are two of them — Wanganui Collegiate School and Christ's College Grammar School. The following notes refer to this class only, but the authorities of Christ's College are in no way responsible for what is said, and may not even agree ; yet the view given is not unreasonable, and is, as I believe, only truth. The official interpretation of the class title is that these two schools do not admit free pupils; the vital distinction is that they are practically free from departmental control. Such schools may be called independent; and the name seems to imply that they are not of the regular army of education but irresponsible freebooters bent upon plunder and not for the cause, and therefore ought to be hung. The first object in these notes is to show the error in this view, and the second to show that schools of this type are a necessary and elevating part of our national system of education. (1.) Schools independent of departmental control cannot do as they like. They are controlled by the public examinations both of the Education Department and of the University. The nature and extent of this control is too obvious to a body of experts to need explanation here ;it is very real; it controls the curriculum and modifies the teaching. There is, however, a second and a higher authority controlling them, and it is the public. The days are gone by when a school could exist with one master and no boys ; gone too (if they ever existed, which I much doubt) the days when a school could draw boys by the attraction of a famous name. The parents are much too wide-aAvake for that. If a school does not give what they want they will soon find another which, does. Thus independent schools work under direct control of the public, and the public is not by any means ignorant. It is often mistaken because its views are excessively utilitarian, but it knows what a, school is doing, and it knows what it wants that school to do. In matters of control, then, the, independent school and the departmental school are alike in this—that they are under the control of the public. The only difference is that with the independent school that control is very direct, for a fall in numbers is soon felt. Control of this nature is open to abuse. It may encourage various methods of advertisement, such as scholarship winning, athletic fame, delicate cuisine, or even elaborate books of prospectus, but none of these are lasting. The public wants good honest work, and in the end gets it. Even this ma} 7 be abused by faulty methods, but they, too, are exposed before long by the neighbourhood of departmental .schools. For them public control acts through an expert department. Such a body will always be able to frame a good curriculum and to secure a fair average of method, and so keep up the standard of these things, but it has the inevitable weakness of working through regulations. And (I quote from the headmaster of Eton) " regulations laid down now and intended to be applied with discrimination and elasticity may very easily become hardened into an engine of something little short of tyranny, not because any one wishes to exercise tyranny, but merely because it is the nature of all Government departments to work by routine." Direct public control with all its faults is much more human ; at any 7 rate it exists, and that is the first point. (2.) The second is that the two schools referred, to are a necessary and elevatirg part of our national system of education. They are necessary because they are one of the natural organs of society working for educational purposes ; they are elevating because always in close contact with the great English public schools. Society does organize itself educationally, and in many ways ; the department and all its works are one of them, but these independent schools are another. They express the educational ideals of people who are certainly in earnest, for they are prepared to pay, and the payment is often made at great personal sacrifice. It is a fact plain and certain that if the character of these schools was altered this year new ones would be formed next year, and the new ones would draw from the same living source in the great public schools of England. They are alive, never more so than now, and the proof of this is that the strongest criticism of them comes from within—foreign nations desire to imitate. Some of the critics, either hardworking masters or loyal old boys, have spoken of obsolete methods of teaching, and the word has been repeated until believed by 7 those who do not know, but such criticism is a symptom of the life within which issues in a supply of men fit to lead, to govern, and in every way to serve the State. Such men th ■- public here desires to have ; therefore it goes to this source. Not being a foreign nation we can do more than imitate; we can transplant, and we do it. My experience of the Wanganui Collegiate School is now long enough to enable me to speak on this question of transplanting. It has been done, and it has been done successfully. The young plant is well rooted in the new soil, and has modified itself to its new environment. But here the simile ends. That the school is far from perfect none know better than those who are working in it; we are constantly looking for inspiration to renew ourselves, and we find it in the hole of the pit whence we are digged —the public schools of England. They are in the midst of things; they have all the advantages, and are absorbing the best of the new ideas of the leading educationists in England ; and what they develop we can assimilate because we have been bred in them. And so long as these schools are staffed mainly from the English public schools so long will the inflow of wholesome life continue, and it cannot be had in any other way. The department and its schools are good ; but here is one service which they cannot do for the public, and which yet the public demands knowing this to be good for itself. Therefore these independent schools deserve sympathetic support from all who really care for the cause of education in the Dominion. James Aitken, Headmaster, Wanganui District High School. Forwarding a, schedule of the school holidays in the various education districts in New Zealand. R. H. Dodd, Mangoihe. Complaining that a lady who has had twenty years' experience of teaching was only receiving £48 per year, the attendance at her school being "8 and a few points," and advocating a payment of pupil.
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J. T. Stewart, Wanganui. Up to Standard VI the syllabus should be simplified and more time be given to the essentials, and less to minor subjects and what is termed " manual education." The essentials mean reading, writing, and arithmetic, with the adjuncts of English composition, such as essays or descriptions of scenes, &c, as may be suggested ; also general history and geography to a fixed time-limit. The "arithmetic to be confined to simple rules in use in everyday life, and what is called " problems " avoided; so in English grammar, complex analysis, &c, avoided. The manual work, such as brushwork, modelling, woodwork, &c, to be wholly eliminated or much reduced, so as to give more time for the essentials. For the great bulk of young people this would be a sufficient education. The minority who desire to proceed further would have an opportunity afterwards in the continuation classes and technical schools. Hawke's Bay Education District. A. S. M. Poison, 8.A., Headmaster, Napier Boys' High School. My experience of tho froc-placo system is that the majority of tho holders do not stay at the secondary school long enough. Many pupils appear to regard the privilege merely as the stoppingstono to a clerical appointment, and vanish during their first or second year, before the advantages of the secondary school—mental, moral, and physical—have borne real fruit. The difficulty would bo mot to some extent if moro senior scholarships woro offered to induce tho brighter pupils to proceed further with thoir education. With regard to the primary-school syllabus, I regret the disappearance of grammar. Tho teaching of foreign languages, even on modern linos, is handicapped by the fact that pupils come up lacking knowledge of tho elementary grammatical functions. I consider vocational studios in tho bost interests of tho pupils, provided— (a) that early specialization is avoided, and (b) that tho conditions aro favourable as to equipment and staffing. It would bo impracticable to introduce tho teaching of agriculture into, say, a town school that did not possess any land suitable for experimental work. Home-work is a factor in education that should not be eliminated. There can bo too much spoon-feeding in tho training of tho young, and home-work, reasonable as to quantity and quality, is a means of developing self-reliance and encouraging the spirit of research, without which there can bo no real progress. I approve warmly of the work of tho Navy League. The movement appeals readily to every normal boy, and, while inculcating sane ideas of patriotism and Imperialism, it helps to render moro concrete tho too neglected and often indifferently taught subject of British history. One of tho most sorious difficulties in our socondary-school work is that no adequate provision is made for tho training of toachors. Men have often to bo appointed to a position on their academic record who havo had no teaching oxporionco. Tho salaries offered arc in many cases too small, suitablo men boing constrained either to Book other callings or to supplement thoir incomes by private tuition. W. Kerr, M.A. (Cantab.), Mathematics and Science Master, Boys' High School, Napier. The bookish character of our education, both primary and secondary, is largely responsible for the increasing disinclination for manual work, as well as for tho flow of rustic population into the towns, and to a certain extent for tho industrial unrost of our time. By giving education a more practical bont wo should restore interest in country lifo and in manual occupations. This is a matter of vital concern to a community whoso prosperity depends chiefly upon agriculture. The well-being of numbers of children, especially in tho direction of physical health, is being lost sight of. . . . Government should appoint qualified dentists for school-children. ... An ethical text-book, illustrating in concroto form obedience) to parents, duties of citizens, habits of industry, personal attention to cleanliness and health, tho principles of moral woll-boing and the worth of noble ideals, should be used. . . . Military training in schools is calculated to interfere with the proper objects of early education. Boys who leave school under eighteen should bo compelled to attend continuation classes, Miss V. M. Greig, M.A., B.Sc, Napier Girls' High School. Forwarding the following requests : That in the interests of girls domestic science be made a prominent foaturo of our socondary-school system, and that the matter of recognizing domestic science as a subject for Matriculation and Junior University Scholarship examinations be brought before the Now Zealand University, especially now that that body has recognized a degree in that subject. That a loss sovoro strain bo put on girls botwoon tho ages of fourteen and nineteen in tho matter of examination roquiromonts, and that the education of girls should proceed on somewhat different lines from that of boys. It is not fair, and certainly against all reason, to require that girls should qualify and compote with boys in tho same branches of education. That tho teaching of history be made a more prominent feature not only of primary but of secondary school-work. That lantorns be used in science, history, geography teaching, and that grants be made by tho Education Department for the purchase and upkeep of those. That greater facilities than at present bo offered to pupils of the third and fourth years to induce thorn to qualify for tho teaching or other profession, and that boarding allowance be granted to capable country pupils so that they may continue longer than at present at tho high school. Tho majority of girls at prosont loavo after two yoars at a socondary school, and this is largely owing to financial roasons. That some stops bo taken to prevent junior free scholars entering a secondary school and then leaving affcor tho first year, or ovoa aftor a torm or two. Tho Department is not in such 'cases getting an adequate return for such pupils, and tho school classes are disorganized. That moro attention be paid to tho teaching of formU Jgrammar in tho primary school, for in the secondary school much time is taken up in teaching work that should havo bean learned before the pupil takes up
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secondary work. This ignorance of grammar is especially noticeable when children begin to study other languages than English. Moreover, many children speak so badly that they cannot cope successfully with other languages. G. Crawshaw, Secretary, Hawke's Bay Education Board. Forwarding newspaper report of meeting of his Board, at which the Chairman refuted certain evidence given before the Commission at Auckland by Percy G. Andrew. The Chairman stated that the Poverty Bay schools had been more than liberally treated in the distribution of the Board's funds during the past six years, and that Te Hapara School had accommodation provided eighteen months ago for 185. Further, Te Hapara School was erected " according to a sketch-plan prepared by Chief Inspector Hill, who from his long and varied experience might well be expected to know the requirements of an up-to-date school. In every room hyloplate blackboards are erected on the wall opposite windows, and having also a side-light—the ideal —to work by." As to the charge regarding defective chimneys, the Chairman stated that Mr. Andrew had wired, " New chimney very satisfactory others want attention." The matter was put in hand by the Board at once, but as the workman who was instructed to undertake the work could not immediately commence some three weeks elapsed before the work was completed. The Board had kept the school staffed at all times as liberally as is possible under the Act. The Chairman also stated that the Board's credit balance referred to was insufficient to cover the Board's liabilities for rebuilding worn-out schools. Te Hapara School cost the Board to erect £240 13s. Bd. over and above the Government grant. As to appointment of teachers, the Board sends forward to Committees the name of only one applicant—that recommended by the Inspector. On no occasion during the past six years had his Board permanently appointed any teacher without first consulting the Committee, and in the case referred to by Mr. Andrew the appointment made was a temporary one. In that case " I maintain that tho Board did consult the Committee, though as a matter of courtesy only, for on the 15th March the Committee was informed whom the Board had asked to accept the position, and the Committee then had an opportunity of lodging any objection if it so wished to the appointment of such teacher." Napier Branch, Hawke's Bay District Educational Institute. Besolutions passed as follows : System of payment of salaries needs remodelling ; importation of teachers be discontinued ; centralization of schools should be adopted wherever possible ; minimum salary for Inspectors should be at least equal to that of the headmaster of a Grade 10 school; compulsory-attendance age to bo raised to fifteen years ; scholarships in secondary schools be abolished in favour of increasing University scholarships and board-allowance for country children ; woodwork, cookery, and dressmaking should be left to technical classes : free books should be superseded by free stationery. Gisborne Branch, Hawke's Bay District Educational Institute. Forwarding the following suggestions : That scholarships should be abolished, and boardingallowances to country scholars should be substituted ; that, wherever practicable, children should be conveyed to central schools in place of the multiplication of small schools; that teachers, especially in the lower grades, are inadequately paid ; that the dearth of teachers is due to the absence of prospects ; that more clearness in the syllabus for Standard VI English is desirable ; that some of the questions on the Government Standard VI English cards are beyond what might be reasonably expected from Standard VI children ; that the scope of commercial geography should be extended, and that the requirements in physical geography should be correspondingly curtailed ; that all technical education should be shut out of the primary schools, and taken in continuation and secondary schools ; that there should be a Dominion scale of salaries for Inspectors, and that the lowest salary paid to an Inspector should be at least equal to the highest salary paid to a headmaster (i.e., £480) ; that a Dominion scheme for the promotion of teachers is an. urgent, necessity ; that it would be a decidedly retrograde step to demilitarize the Junior Cadets of our primary schools. Physical and " building-up " drill form the bulk of the Cadet training now, and to take the uniforms from the boys, as suggested by the Minister of Education, would certainly hinder, not help, the " building-up " process that he advocates. G. A. Eves, Tikokino, Waipaiva. In regard to the appointment of teachers, the present provincial system is decidedly detrimenta to true education, inasmuch as it prevents a teacher removing to another district where he may be benefited by other methods and also by new surroundings. A period of three to five years is longenough in most schools for a teacher to do some good work, whereas to leave him in the same position for a much longer time deprives him of ambition and causes a spirit, of discontent and unrest. Eighteen months ago a teacher in another district and myself wished, to exchange positions, but as there was a difference of opinion as to what rate of salary we should receive a letter was written to the Department, which replied that they could not undertake the interpretation of the Act. It would have been an advantage to both to exchange, but as no information could be obtained the matter dropped. The best men in a district are seldom willing to act on School Committees, as they say they have little or nothing to do, or are without funds to do it. With often a poor class of men on School Committees it is a marvel that the Education Boards, who are elected by them, are generally capable men. In my opinion the whole of the West Coast (South Island) could be beneficially united under one Board, while Nelson and Marlborough could be easily attached to the • Wellington Education District, to which they are both nearer than Westport is to Nelson, or as near as Gisborne
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is to Napier. A few years ago some teachers at Woodville, who owing to an unsuitable railway timetable could not attend woodwork classes at Dannevirke, wished to attend the teachers' classes at Palmerston North, but as the latter place was in another education district they were told they might, attend only if they paid the fees! Surely such a system is absurd, and one would like to know who would be the loser if provincial control of educational matters were abolished immediately. Wellington Education District. Professor J. M. E. Garrow, Victoria College. As by this time the Commission will probably have heard discussed in full detail all the points to which I could refer, it will be sufficient for me to indicate in brief outline a few of the more pressing measures of educational reform. The matter of most urgent importance at the present moment is the proper co-ordination of all educational work below the University under one central controlling body. There should be one system from the infant school to the University. Continuation schools are required, and the work of these should dovetail into that of the primary schools. Similarly with the work of the technical schools. The root of all is the primary school, and the others should follow naturally and without a break, each step higher in the educational ladder following naturally from the preceding one. There should be only such overlapping as is necessary to insure continuity of the work of the higher schools with that of the lower schools. The present system of different governing bodies, different systems, different methods of work, independent syllabuses, is not a system that can possibly produce the best results. It must lead to an enormous waste both of money and of educational effort, not to mention the loss inflicted upon the student. The education system should be a national system right through. There should be one system, not several. There should be one definite policy adopted upon the recommendation of a competent authority and carried out under the control of that authority. If the State takes control of education there are only two courses— either to confine its efforts to the absolute minimum required to prevent its citizens being absolutely ignorant, for example confining education to the " three R's " and their adjuncts, or to extend its control over the whole educational life of the young. There is no middle course. Either a definite minimum must be chosen and the rest left to others to carry out, or the bolder plan must be chosen of providing for all who choose to take advantage of it the best education possible to be given with the resources available. With the modern views of the functions of the State, and under modern conditions of the struggle for existence on the part of States and of individuals, it has become a matter of overpowering necessity for the preservation of the State and its members that all citizens should enter upon the battle of life as well equipped as possible. All schools, therefore, should be State schools in the proper sense. In order to carry out this co-ordination effectively, to fix upon a definite policy to be steadily pursued, and to secure uniformity and continuity of administration, I think some central controlling authority is required in the form of a permanent Board or Council of Education consisting of persons skilled in educational work and in finance. Under the administration of such a body it would be possible to have a really national system of education right up to the University. Some of the results of such a system would be the following : There would be a definite ordered plan of education. There would be a saving of money and of educational energy. The time and energy of the pupils would be conserved. Unnecessary overlapping would be avoided. There would be one body framing the various syllabuses and seeing that they were properly carried out. Inspectors should be under the control of this Board, and their work and methods would be more uniform. The present system of scholarships could be largely dispensed with or considerably modified in its operation, as there would be one method of promotion right through the system. There is no need of scholarships to take a pupil from the Fifth Standard to the Sixth Standard, and there should be no need for scholarships to take him from the Sixth Standard to the next grade. He would go up as a matter of course if he remained at schoil. Many of the present examinations would be done away with, as they would be rendered unnecessary by the new arrangement. The present system of grants for individual pupils in individual Subjects should be abolished. It is a vicious system which lends itself to various abuses. There is no need for it in the primary schools, and there is no reason why it should be necessary in higher-grade schools. An endeavour should be made to make the teaching profession more attractive to men, and especially to teachers in the outlying_districts. It is quite wrong to expect young women to go away into what is called the backblocks for years, and to expect them to keep pace with up-to-date educational work ; and it is a still greater wrong to them when, as certainly happens sometimes, they have to spend their whole lives in such work, their only change being perhaps from one backblock school to another. There is also another aspect to this question. The man in the backblocks has just as strong a right to have a good education for his children as the man nearer a large centre, due allowance being made for the unavoidable disabilities of pioneer life. The disadvantages of the system of payment on average attendance should be minimized to the utmost. It is a question whether such a basis for the payment of salaries should not be abolished. There should be a national system of promotion for teachers, and teachers would have more avenues of promotion open to them. There is no reason why teachers in the primary schools should not have the way open to them to the highest positions in the State schools of every class. A wider sphere of work and more opportunities of promotion would be open to all State-school teachers, and this would not only have an elevating effect on the intellectual work of the individual teachers, but would also tend to raise the general standard of primary-school work. The present number of Education Boards should be considerably reduced. Four or five Boards should be sufficient for the Dominion, the districts corresponding to the University districts. T feel sure this reform would of itself make a great improvement in the direction of increased efficiency combined with lessened cost of administration.
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M. Mackenzie, Professor of English Language and, Literature, Victoria College^Wellington. To secure the highest efficiency in our educational system I am abundantly satisfied that the status 'and emoluments in the higher departments of the profession should be equal to those of the other learned professions. The conditions should be such that all persons adopting education as their profession should have an opportunity to work their way by study, industry, application to duty and efficient service to the highest positions in the profession. Every teacher should undergo training at a training college. The salaries in the secondary schools should be on a higher scale than those in the primary schools. No candidate should be eligible for a mastership in a secondary school who has not been trained at a training college and secured a University degree. In making appointments to secondary schools preference should be given to University graduates trained at a training college, and having practical experience as a teacher in a primary school. No candidate should be appointed to the inspectorate who has not had ten years' experience in teaching—at least five in a primary school as headmaster. In appointing to University chairs actual experience in teaching should be indispensable. With regard to the proposal to permit the use of the Bible in our State curriculum, I submit —-(1.) That it is the duty of the State not to interfere in purely religious matters. (2.) That the Bible has no connection whatever with the origin of ethics, nor any essential connection with the accredited sanctions of ethics. (3.) That to introduce the Bible into our State schools would be— (a) Virtually establishing a State Church ; (b) a pious fraud and utterly demoralizing, unless the teachers were absolutely free to use it (the Bible) according to their own honest convictions and (if they wished to) in the light of modern biblical scholarship and research ; (c) imposing a religious test on teachers; (d) introducing, inevitably, sectarian influences into our State system—as, for example, in Scotland, where, although almost all the people are Presbyterian, there is scarcely a single Education Board (of the 972 Boards there) in which there have not been several sectarian squabbles over the appointment of teachers. (4.) That the statements of those who have the effrontery to represent our State schools as making no provision for moral discipline and moral training are absolutely without foundation. If children are late for school, if they lie, cheat, or commit any offence regarded as such in any civilized community, are they not duly punished ? In fact, the children are under strict moral discipline every moment of the school day. (5.) That the State, however, might concede to the Churches the right of " contracting out" in the matter of education, as is done in Scotland, on some such conditions as follows : (a) That they provide and maintain schools and schoolhouses to plans approved by the Education Department; (o) that their teachers be trained, paid, classified, promoted, &c, subject to precisely the same conditions as the State teachers ; (c) that the State pay a liberal capitation for the secular part of the instruction, if declared by State Inspectors to be up to the standard and quality of that of the State schools ; (d) that the State pay nothing whatever for buildings or maintenance of buildings —merely a proportion of the money necessary for the remuneration of the teacher for secular services. (6.) That to allow the people of the Dominion to settle the issue by means of a re-'erendum would be absolutely subversive of the neutrality of the State in matters of religion. That before entertaining for a moment the idea of such a referendum the State insist that a " secret ballot" of the head-teachers of our State schools be taken on the question. The State should see to their interests and consult their wishes before submitting to the dictation of interested sectarians and ecclesiastical agitators. The views of a number of eminent British statesmen and ecclesiastics on the secular solution were enclosed. Secondary Schools Assistants' Association, Wellington. Resolutions passed at the last annual meeting : That in the opinion of the Secondary Schools Assistants' Association it is advisable that direct ethical training be given in secondary schools ; that in view of the fact that most teachers in secondary schools commence teaching after leaving the University, the Government be urged to amend the Superannuation Act so as to permit male teachers to retire on completing thirty-five years' service if they so wish ; that arrangements be made to enable a University student to count his years of training at a University College as years of service towards superannuation ; that the Government be urged to issue a regulation to the effect that the average class should not contain more than twenty-five, and that the Government should grant such a capitation as will enable the Boards to pay salaries on a scale not less than hitherto ; that the Government specify a certain minimum proportion of the income derived by governing bodies to be devoted to the payment of teachers' salaries ; that this association considers it highly desirable that the State appoint competent instructors for all secondary schools, to give such instruction in certain branches of hygienic physiology as will safeguard the children and help to develop the best type of children. The secretary states that the association represents a body of 122 secondary-school teachers. A. H. Vile, Member of Wellington Education Board. I am of opinion that the system of primary education is capable of improvement and development in several directions. It seems to me that there should be a classification of pupils in the higher Standards, and that mental and physical capacity, together with environment, should determine the treatment of scholars as from Standard V upwards. It should not be possible for a pupil with a natural bent for rural pursuits or for mechanics to waste his time and the country's money in the pursuit of the professions. There should be a discrimination between the sexes in the matter of instruction in the higher standards. The syllabus should be more capable of adaptation than at present. Free stationery as well as school-books should be supplied in all primary schools. The compulsory age-limit might reasonably be extended, and the scholarship age increased in the lowergrade schools. The agricultural course should not be made irrevocable in schools adopting it, and
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girls should be relieved of it entirely and be taught the elements of domestic economy in its stead. The salaries of teachers, particularly in rural districts, should not be based entirely upon the average attendance. There should be no discrimination between the sexes' so far as the payment of teachers is concerned. The minimum pay of teachers holding the D certificate should be increased, and there should be a small increment in salary for every degree passed. The transfer and appointment of teachers should be vested entirely in Education Boards. [Note. —The present system renders effective organization impossible, and. lends itself to a form of patronage which is subversive to the interests of education generally.] The privilege of appeal by teachers should be more clearly defined. School Committees should be elected upon a parliamentary franchise, and should have a more assured finance than at present, so that it should not be necessary for minor repair work to be authorized by a Board. The purchasing and distribution of school-books and stationery should, subject to a general supervision by Board Inspectors, be vested in School Committees. The period for which School Committees are elected might reasonably be extended. Nominations for School Committees should close at least seven days prior to an election, and only in cases where a sufficient number of nominations have not been received should nominations be accepted on the night of the election. I see no reason why School Committees, if elected on a broad franchise, should not he entrusted, as at present, with the election of their executives in the form of Education Boards. The latter should have wider powers than at present in the matter of finance. It should be for the Boards, and not the Department, to decide where new buildings and additions are required. The division of the education districts into wards has not improved the administration, as it has tended to create a parochial feeling. Provision should be made for the payment of an honorarium to Chairmen of Education Boards. Members of Parliament should not be eligible for seats on such Boards. The training-schools for teachers are not, in my opinion, giving full value for the money expended upon them. The qualification for admission to these schools or colleges does not appear to me to be based upon sound principles. No pupil who has not. spent a period of probationary teaching in a primary school, and satisfied the inspectorate as to his or her aptitude for the profession, should be admitted as a trainee. A condition of admission to a college should be that a trainee should enter into a bond to remain in the profession for at least three years after leaving the college. In my opinion much of the money which is being expended upon technical schools is wasted. The whole of these schools should be under the jurisdiction of Education Boards, and the Managers should be elected on the parliamentary franchise, in the same manner as School Committees, and have a, voice in the election of members of the Education Boards. It should not be a function of a technical school to impart instruction in subjects (such as art) which are not vocational. In these schools, as in the primary schools, pupils should be classified and taught only those subjects which are suited to their environs, and which are likely to be of value in after-life. Regular examinations of the pupils should be made, and only those who make reasonable progress should be permitted to continue their studies. All instructors should be certificated, and a certificate of proficiency obtained at a technical school should entitle the holder to a preference in appointment to those branches of the Public Service for which they have specialized. Ido not think that, with an extended system of compulsory primary education, continuation schools are necessary, more particularly in view of the compulsory defence scheme which has recently been inaugurated. The Junior Cadet system is, in my opinion, a piece of extravagance. Physical drill alone should be carried out in our primary schools, and military drill should hegin with our Senior Cadets. One of the most pressing requirements in our education system is, to my mind, a provision for secondary instruction in agriculture. There should be at least half a dozen agricultural high schools or colleges in the. Dominion in which scientific agriculture could be taught. The movement in this direction in Japan, United States of America, Canada, and even the Australian Commonwealth should inspire us to immediate action. I have reason to think that agricultural and pastoral associations, farmers' unions, and other bodies would liberally endow such institutions. At the present moment we are expending huge sums of money in preparing our youth for the professions and handicrafts; but, although by the rural course in our primary schools we endeavour to cultivate a love for the soil, we offer no means whereby our young men can become proficient in that important subject of agriculture upon which the future of this country so largely depends. 0. J. Cooke, Thirty Years' Teaching Experience, Kelburne, Wellington. Modern education demands the cultivation of habits of observation, but teachers are discouraged to a very serious extent from taking up those studies which would help them to guide their pupils, and to foster in them those habits of observation. The best positions in. the teaching profession are for University graduates, not only positions in high schools and district high schools, but in many cases, too, in the primary schools. But the present system of the New Zealand University puts a premium on the study of purely literary subjects, and a bar on the study of science. Even students in training find it much easier to obtain degrees by passing in literary rather than in scientific subjects, and it is a matter of common experience that the amount of time and study is far less to satisfy the examiners in literary subjects, but when we come to teachers holding positions we find it is almost an impossibility for them to hope for any academic recognition of attainments in science. The University authorities will not even examine them unless they attend a course of lectures at a college affiliated to the University, and these colleges are found in the four centres only. The professors of science require a student to pass two years with them in order to complete his studies. It is manifest, then, that no teacher, apart from those living within easy distance of a University College, can hope for any recognition of his science studies. With literary subjects it is altogether different. A teacher, or indeed any student, may live anywhere. A large number of our teachers, some few women but mostly men, engage n study. By paying fees and obtaining a few days' leave of absence they can attend college and
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University examinations and obtain University degrees. Then they are eligible for the better positions in the profession, whereas a man who has qualified himself by the cultivation of some branch of natural science to foster habits of observation in his pupils is looked on as inferior in attainments, and has no hope of securing any of the best positions. G. M. Henderson, Head-teacher, Ohau School. Recommending that nurses should be appointed to toach Maoris tho proper care of children, and pointing out that he has thirty-five Maori children at his school, out of a roll of a hundred, who wore superior to the others in writing, drawing, singing, and handwork ; equal to them in arithmetic, reading, and spelling ; and inferior only in composition. J. Fuller, Jun., Wellington. Urging the passing of legislation preventing children of primary-school ago from entering places of amusement, selling newspapers, loitering at street corners, &c, after 8 o'clock at night, and denying that his picture entertainments were anything but highly educative. Wellington Moral and Physical Health Society. Deprecating the establishment of kindergartens by the State except after Froobel's original model in the open air, and pointing out the danger of crowding out tho original and essential principles and methods of the kindergarten by introducing subjects preparatory to tho primary schools. Garnet Sims, Physical Culture Expert. In reference to physical training in schools. "It is just over three weeks," ho says, " since I returned from a special six-years course of study and training in England, and I havo also received during the past few months authentic accounts, together with illustrations, regarding the physical training both of the British army and school-children in various parts of England. I have no hesitation whatever in stating that it is absolutely farcical for any individual or body to stato that such-and-such a system should be employed. As I pointed out in tho enclosed copy of my letter to the Chairman of tho Education Board, individual characteristics and peculiarities must be taken into account. To state, as some correspondents have done, that tho Swedish system should bo adopted to the exclusion of other forms of exercise indicates but a very elementary knowledge of tho science of physical education. Scientific physical culture, as understood by tho leading authorities in that profession, is a totally different thing from what was known as physical culture ton years ago. The alphabet is rightly considered of importance to a child just commencing school, but it is only 7 of elementary importance, to lay, as it were, the foundation upon which to impart further knowledge, and it is exactly a similar case with tho Swedish exorcises. Thoy havo thoir use, and a very important primary use, but they become worked out at a certain stage. I think you will agree with mo that all education should be progressive, and yet we have many instances before us whore the Swedish system is seriously recommended for adoption as the sole method of training tho physique of our schoolchildren, and yet, as I have already pointed out, Swedish exorcises are only the A B C of physical education in its truest sense to-day." J. W. M. Harrison, 123 Cuba Street, Wellington. Pleading for a better system of physical training in the primary schools, the demilitarization of the Junior Cadets, organized games, and loss home-work for girls between tho ages of thirteen and seventeen. He forwarded photographs in support of his statement. Joseph A. Duffy, Wellington. Condemning Junior Cadet system, and stating that physical training at present carried on in schools was unsatisfactory. He suggested that physical training be made an important subject on the primary-school curriculum ; that the English syllabus of physical training (with additional Swiss figure-marching exercises, which are deportment exorcises for children) be adopted ; that an experienced teacher of physical culture be appointed as Director and Inspector of Physical Training for primary schools ; that the Director of Physical Training, with assistants trained in the syllabus, will direct the physical training in the primary schools ; that one trained instructor be allowed to each Board or district, who will in turn train the teachers and direct the physical training in his district; that the Junior Cadets be demilitarized ; that children be examined yearly in physical training, efficiency to count in passing the higher standards. G. E. Little, Mangamahu. Suggesting that the Education Departmont should require a certificate that every school has been visited or inspected at least once a year. Somo of the money spent on secondary education might be devoted to education in the backblocks. L. F. Watkins, Mus. Bach., President, Wellington Society of Professional Musicians. The amount of time given to preparation for the music examination is altogether inadequate. A large percentage of candidates have never sung till they 7 began to prepare for the examination. A large percentage of the candidates have defective " musical oars." The sense of rhythm is in most cases deficient. Many candidates have never seen the staff notation till their short course of prepara-
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tion began, though they are expected to know both this and the tonic solfa. The system of marking is wrong, in that it does not give a larger proportion of marks to the practical part of the examination. The subject of music is not taken seriously by the majority of teachers, and the time given to it in the schools is usually insufficient. Ido not mean to say that there is no good teaching of singing in our schools,, nor that there is no good training given to students, for there is good work being done in many of the schools and in some of the training colleges, but there is not nearly enough of it. There is too little in this young country of this refining element, and anything of this description should be used to its fullest extent. Another subject for alarm in those interested in the musical future of the rising generation is the deplorable lack of right methods of " voice-production." Here the evils of bad methods produce irreparable injury, for the childish voice wrongly produced is almost always a voice ruined for good and all, and the musical sense, trained to believe that coarse and loud singing is correct, means a coarsened mental fibre. Two highly qualified teachers, trained on the English system, should be obtained from England to take charge of the musical training of teachers in the training colleges, and also to act as inspectors of the music in our schools, giving special attention to those schools where music is not taught. Cecil W. Palmer, Hem. Secretary, Wellington Branch of the Navy League. On behalf of the league he pointed out that there is a serious neglect of British naval history. While instructors in public schools of other nations, especially Germany, are paying particular attention to the development among their pupils of a sense of duty to their country, pride in the past, and hope for the future of their race, in many of our schools our most glorious naval history (to which our nation owes its present position of security and prosperity) is practically ignored. Ignorance and apathy in this matter constitute a serious peril. If we as a nation intend to hold our position of leader of the civilized world, the coming generation (including all classes) should most certainly be taught to fully realize how vital to us is the retention of command of the sea, which was won for us by the tremendous efforts and self-denial of our forefathers. As a means of facilitating the teaching of naval history the league strongly urges the adoption of the Navy League map handbook, " Britain on and beyond the Sea," as a class-book ; or, failing this, that copies of the book should be supplied to each and every teacher in the Dominion. Mrs. J. H. Probyn, 11 Mortimer Terrace, Wellington. Advising the daily inspection by a responsible teacher of the lavatories and water-closets, and referring to the punishment occasionally inflicted upon children. Committees should have no voice in appointment of teachers. Higher salaries would not make better teachers ; too much stress is put on a teachor's literary abilities than teaching-powers when making appointments ; therefore teachers have always the strain of preparing for their own advancement instead of cultivating and training the children. Teachers should be classified, and transfers compulsory. Boys and girls can be well taught together. Dressmaking and cooking should be left to technical schools. Salaries should be fixtures. Other suggestions regarding care of children were made. J. A. Valintine, Inspector-General of Hospitals, &c. In answer to your request as to the average salaries paid Matrons and sisters in our hospitals of over a hundred beds, I regret to inform you that these data can only be given approximately, as there is no uniformity. The question of salary depends on varying conditions, such as the amount of work done, the personnel of the Board, the accessibility or otherwise of the district, &c. — e.g., Gisborne and Waipiro Bay Hospital Boards give larger salaries, on account of their somewhat isolated position, than other hospitals of a similar size. Roughly speaking, the salaries may be said to range as follows : Matrons, from £100 to £200 ; sisters, from £60 to £85 ; nurses, from £50 to £60. H. J. Prior, Wellington. Suggesting that the reading of a portion of Scripture, with possibly the Ten Commandments and the Lord s Prayer, would not occupy ten minutes of school-time, and would obviate all demands for a grant-in-aid to the Roman Catholics, Anglicans, and non-conforming religious socts. K. J. McLennan, Caretaker, Te Aro School, Wellington. Caretakers' salaries are too low. Marlborough Education District. Dr. Innes, Principal, Marlborough High School. For secondary schools with an average of less than 150 pupils the scheduled grant should be increased by 20 per cent. There should be some system of naming schools —viz., " College "to be reserved for the University colleges, secondary schools to be called " collegiate high schools," and district high schools to retain that designation. Each school which has reached a sufficient stage of development to form a scheme of staffing, with a minimum and maximum salary for each position, the latter to be reached by annual increases. Marlborough School Committees' Association. Recommending that all teachers should be taught first-aid and ambulance work, with a view to giving instruction, and indorses the evidence given at Dunedin by Professor White and Mr. Goyen.
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//. R. Fisher, Headmaster, Tuamarina, Marlborough. Advocates the metric system ; adoption of average roll for salaries ; more scientific and definite treatment of the essentials of grammar and commercial and political geography ; scientific apparatus instead of free books ; better school residences ; abolition of small Boards ; grouping of classes ; consolidation of small schools ; payment of teachers' removal expenses ; opposes probationer system for small schools ; reduction of salaries with grade of school. Nelson Education District. J. H. Mackenzie, ex Chairman, School Committee, Nelson. System of election of Boards needs amendment to give Committees of large schools additional voting-power, and in electing School Committees those nominated a week before election-day should be declared elected, if not more than the number required aro nominated ; or, as an alternative, Boards and Committees should be abolished, and County and Borough Councils provide schoolsites, buildings, and upkeep, the Dominion Central Department controlling educational staff, equipment, and inspection. Attendance of teachers at training colleges should be compulsory. Teachers should be appointed on their merits, with equal pay for men and women, especially in separate schools ; additional assistants should be appointed at once ; allowing half an hour per week for religious instruction. F. C. J. Cockburn, Art Master, Nelson Technical School. Wrote as to the necessity for teaching drawing properly in the primary schools. Ho says, " Art training and nature-study, rightly conducted and properly correlated with other studies, should be begun at an early age, and should continue throughout the elementary and higher stages of education. ... In the teaching of drawing too much stress is laid upon the training of the hand. It is far more important to train the eye to see. Drawing with pencils upon squared slates or paper should be abolished. It has no artistic value, and is injurious to the eyesight and the general health of the children. The sense of form and proportion which children possess can be trained from the earliest period, whereas a young child has not sufficient control over the smaller muscles to enable it to hold a pen properly. Therefore, drawing with chalk upon board or paper should replace the pencil drawing at present in vogue in some infant departments. Again, freehand and model drawing should not be treated as separate subjects, for they are essentially one. Model drawing is simply a freehand drawing of objects seen by the eye. Where drawing is intelligently taught it will be found to have a beneficial effect upon other studies, for a child who uses intelligence in making a drawing will naturally use it in other ways too." A. G. Thompson, Woodwork Instructor, Nelson. Apparently it is the desire of many teachers to have the manual-training course deleted from the curriculum as at present constituted of the Fifth and Sixth Standards of the primary schools. I would state, however, that to my mind this would be a retrograde step for Now Zealand for the followingreasons : The English schools, after years of work in manual training, are still retaining that subject as one of the chief in general school-work, and extending it in every possible way. To leave this subject until pupils have passed the Sixth Standard would make it most inefficient, inasmuch as tho Fifth Standard is the most suitable in which to commence the teaching of " orthographic projection " and other like drawings, and the pupils are, generally speaking, at about, that stage when their strength and ability are most suited to the requirements of tool-usage. The results obtained from Fourth Standard pupils are not such as to favour the course commencing in that standard, and the result of commencing in the Sixth Standard is that the pupils leave school, with such a limited knowledge of the subject that it is of very little practical value to them. I must state here, however, that even a very limited course has its value in the training of hand and eye from a purely educational point of view. I therefore submit that the course commencing at the Fifth Standard is conducive to the best results. Should students be compelled to enter upon a course of manual training after leaving the primary school, instead of as at present, the result would be that the work would be quickly carried out, but poor in quality. This is very noticeable regarding the students now attending the evening classes, and who have not previously received tuition in manual training. The educational efficiency under these conditions would be greatly curtailed. In addition to the above, another point that would greatly militate against good educational results is that the instructor would invariably find that those students compelled to take the course against their will would be more likely at that age to become very troublesome, and also their minds would be much less plastic than at an earlier age. I feel convinced that to obtain a distinct success all that is necessary is better teaching accommodation in many of the New Zealand workshops. It is certainly desirable, if possible, to extend the manual-training course to three years, instead of two as at present, in order that isometric and oblique projection, and tool-sharpening, &c, may be added to the course with good effect. I would suggest that woodwork instructors teach the drawing portion of the course in the primary schools, and that the drawings be marked by the Inspectors to the students' credit or otherwise, as the case may be. By this means most of the friction re time taken from the primary time-table and not given credit for by the Inspectors would be obviated, and the primary teachers would look upon manual training more favourably. The centralization of schools, as has been often, suggested, would greatly benefit the above scheme for carrying out the subject of drawing. It is assrmed, of course, that the drawing would have an immediate connection with the woodwork to be carried out in the shop. In conclusion, let me add that after many years of study on this subject I feel convinced that the judicious combination of practical and theoretical work, as constituted under good manual training, has been of untold benefit to many
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in advancing their ability to understand their general studios and memorize same, and undoubtedly tho best results are obtained when tho course of manual training has been carried out in the Fifth, Sixth, and succeeding standards. Grey Education District. Grey District Teachers' Institute. Centralization of rural schools is necessary for tho efficiont education of children. Children in Grado 4 schools with an efficient hoad-toachor and an efficient assistant teacher should receive better tuition than those in a school where thoro is only one toachor to take all the classes. Above Grade 4 tho position should bo oven bettor. A school below Grado 4 is no inducement to a man. Centralization of rural schools would provide a hotter class of schools. Whore there is railway communication the cost should not bo much. It docs not soom a good thing to soo several small schools along a railway-lino instead of one or two well-equipped schools of from Grade 4 upwards. In this district there arc schools which aro under throo milos apart, and thoro is at present a request for a new school only about throo miles and a half distant by rail from a Grade 4 school which the children could attend. Further, thoro is an inducement for children when thoy become dissatisfied with the teacher of ono school to go to another school. Tho Grey 7 Education Board is, wo think, the only Board that publishes Inspector's reports in tho local Press. In respect to this matter wo submit the following : (1.) An Inspector's report is, in its nature, a confidential document, and should bo treated as such. (2.) Tho Inspector's work is hampered by publication. Ho cannot report in the same manner as he would privately, for criticism which might bo helpful to the work of a teacher would, if published, appoar to cast a slur upon his professional reputation. (3.) Tho teachers feel it a degradation to havo trivial faults exposed in this way. No other body of public servants is exposed to this degradation of public criticism and public censure. (4.) Tho public, being ignorant of the details of schoolwork, arc unable to interpret an Inspector's report, and aro very liable to misconstrue his remarks. Tho necessary feeling of confidence between parent and teacher is destroyed, often without cause. (5.) If money is paid for publication it could be used moro advantageously 7 in furthering educational work. Wo consider that a clause should bo inserted in tho departmental regulations prohibiting such publication of reports. Dominion Promotion Scheme. The executive of the Groy Education Institute of the N.Z.E.I. approves of a Dominion promotion scheme. Tho reasons aro : (1.) Tho present method of promotion is open to the gravest abuses ; the greatest hustler or canvasser usually secures tho coveted position. One of our most prominent teachers admitted that ho attends and fu.rth.ors as many social institutions as possible, so that his name will bo well advertised. This same toachor recently apologized for his lateness at a mooting, explaining that ho had spent tho greater part of tho day canvassing. He was ultimately tho successful candidate. This demonstrates tho unblushing lengths tho abuso has run to. (2.) The Government does not get so good a value for its money. Whilo tho system at present followed in no way allows the best to be promoted, parents (at loaot parents with higher ideals) advise thoir children to take up other occupations, and even a good teacher is ofton forced into other occupations simply from the knowledge that promotion depends too much on influence, not merit. (3.) An excellent toachor may take a school in tho country and he is shelved for life, as his circle of friends is naturally small, while his influence is materially curtailed. (4.) A most serious hardship is inflicted on the teachers under the smaller Boards. Thorc aro thirteen Education Boards in tho Dominion, and as some of those have local promotion schemes it practically makes a Board thus constituted closed against outsiders. This is moro than a hardship to tho toachor under tho smaller Board, and in tho interest of education should at onco bo remedied by oithor abolishing tho smaller Boards or establishing a Dominion promotion schomo. A combination of Boards is desirable. With tho railway to Christchurch, Greymouth would bo noaror to Christchurch than many Auckland schools aro situated with regard to Auckland. (5.) Even though our outlook is being daily curtailed our local promotions are extremely unfair. A few examples should suffice : (a.) A young malo teacher, after serving five years' pupiltoachorship, accepted a position in a country school. Horo ho established an excellent record, and during his service at this school —a period of sixteen years—his work was reviewed by three Inspectors, of whom all gave a most satisfactory report, while of lato years his school has ranked as one of the best in tho district. Tho toachor, though cut away from further tuition, studied and raised his certificate to Dl. Tho school referred to depends on gold-mining, and is beginning to decline. Last year tho first suitable promotion for this toachor occurred in. the Groy District, and he applied for the position, yet an outsider was choson with loss qualifications and hardly half the teaching experience. Tho successful applicant hold a D 2 certificate, and had never boon in charge of a school. This matter was frooly discussed by tho public, and tho opinion openly expressed did not at all augur well for the profession. Parents will not induce thoir children to ontor a profession where such unfairness exists. Tho worst feature is that a thoroughly trained toachor is disheartened and disgusted, while in all probability ho will sook omploymont outside tho teaching profession, (b.) The Grey Education Board has many excellent teachers who havo spent almost a lifetime in tho backblock schools. There is but ono proper town school in tho district —namely, tho Greymouth District High School. The principal female assistant of this school resigned last year (a like event had not occurred for sixteen years previously). Naturally tho country toachor looked for at least a chance. Not so, the town teachers wore in a moro advantageous position, and applications wore not oven called. Tho whole of tho staff was promoted a stop. Thoro is thus little wonder tho Groy Education Board has so large a percentage of uncertificated toachors. During the last few years no less than eight teachers have
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taken inferior positions under other Boards. Yet in some cases in this district a Standard VI proficiency certificate is the literary qualification of teachers. A child who had just left school with a Standard VI proficiency certificate was appointed to a position worth £90 a year. This occurred four months ago. The question may be aptly put, Do the Commissioners think the country is getting full value for its money ? (6.) The Grey Education Board has sent to the Wellington Training College several probationers, who cost a considerable sum for training. Now, if a well-devised promotion scheme were in vogue these probationers, on the completion of their college course, would be classified and ready to take the first vacant position. Now, what do we find under our present haphazard system ? During the last six months no less than three thoroughly trained girls have been " turned down " in the Grey Education District and forced to seek emplo) 7 ment elsewhere, while the district has so large a percentage of uncertificated teachers. Also picture the humiliation to these girls and their parents. They have spent two years as probationers and a year in Wellington at a considerable cost to New Zealand. The three all passed D examinations, while one of them qualified for several subjects in C, yet when they come home and apply for a position their experience is as follows : No. I—Her name is not even sent to the Committee ; perhaps the Education Board considered the Civil Service Examination a better qualification. No 2 —Her name was forwarded to the Committee, but Civil Service carried the day. No. 3 —This girl fared no better, an ex-pupil-teacher was appointed. This pupil-teacher had no certificate. These three teachers have left the district in disgust. The question may be again put, Do the Commissioners think the country is getting value for its money ? The country spends, say, £200 in training a teacher, and an Education Board, in its wisdom, turns these trained teachers adrift and accepts uncertificated teachers, and even employs Standard VI proficiency children at £90 a year. Appointment of Uncertificated Teachers. The executive of the Grey District Institute of the N.Z.E.I, is of opinion that the system that allows the appointment as teachers of youths and girls with no better qualification than a certificate of proficiency or a Junior Civil Service pass, and no previous experience in teaching, requires your earnest consideration. Where the above appointments are assistants a grave hardship is inflicted upon head-teachers, who are not paid for coaching their assistants, and who have no say in their selection, though they are responsible for their work. In the case of sole teachers the position is in some ways worse, as there is no one to instruct them, and both teachers and scholars must suffer. All schools, whether private or public, should be open to Truant Officers. At present in the Grey district it often happens that careless parents, when pressed to send their children more regularly to a public school, remove them from the public school and send them to a private school, where they are free from the attention of the Truant Officer. The salaries paid to assistants in secondary departments of district high schools should be increased. (1.) The training required for secondary work is severe and often expensive. At present there is no inducement for teachers to fit themselves by a University course for the higher branches of education, and the work of secondary departments is left to inexperienced or less efficient teachers. (2.) The work in secondary departments is of an onerous nature. (3.) The work of secondary assistants is of a very responsible character. A nation advances by means of its best citizens ; thus it is of advantage to the State that bright pupils should receive adequate training. The present system is the " cult of the mediocre," rapidly tending to be the " cult of the inferior." The executive of the Grey District Institute of the N.Z.E.I, considers that the inspectorate should be centralized. Westland Education District. George Perry, Chairman, Westland Education Board. The proposal to amalgamate the smaller districts has not yet been presented in a form that could be considered by this Board, and no suggestion in this connection is offered. It may be stated, however, that whether as an entity or as part of a larger district an area such as Westland must, on a capitation basis, be expensive to administer. The district extends from the Otira Gorge to Mount Aspiring, with certain schools separated by a distance of 300 miles. In addition, owing to the number of small schools, the teachers are to_,a large extent inexperienced. Such schools require as much attention as larger ones, if not more. The direction has therefore to be carried on virtually by an organizing Inspector, with the duties involved in the illustrative teaching and the inspection of papers worked in term examinations, in addition to ordinary inspection. The amalgamation of schools or school districts is one that presents serious difficulties. The district is intersected by rivers that render the conveyance of pupils impossible. In a very few instances, where geographical conditions do not intervene, the smallness of the number of pupils prevents the conclusion of arrangements for such conveyance. Owing to objections based on the climatic conditions there is, further, general opposition on the part of parents to any scheme of amalgamation. The industrial conditions of the district are such as to prevent the adoption of vocational training, even if in primary 7 schools this could be admitted to be advisable. The mining is confined to alluvial working, agriculture is exceedingly limited, and in a few localities where co-operative dairying is carried on there exist only sole-teacher schools. Schoolgardening, handwork, and nature-study are limited to programmes embodying correlation with other school-work. As far as possible these subjects are not allowed to occupy time required for the preparation of the main branches of study. There is, therefore, no attempt to specialize in the work of the primary schools. It may be mentioned here that the Board is in favour of —(1) the reduction of the course in arithmetic and the application of the rules more widely in a practical direction, and (2) of the simplification and unification of the course in geography. It is considered that the course in English embraces sufficient grammatical knowledge, and that, on the other hand, the requirements in this respect should not be reduced. With reference to secondary education as provided by district high
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schools, there is in this district no demand for specialization in agricultural instruction. Unless the inclusion of mechanics in the course may be regarded as relating to mining and sawmilling, no special bias has been admitted into the programme of instruction. Owing to the demands of teachers, lawstudents, prospective University students, and others, the Matriculation Examination influences largely the adoption of the course of study, which is directed also to preparation for the Junior and Senior Civil Service Examinations. In consequence scarcely any differentiation is feasible with regard to boys and girls, or in favour of those requiring a course other than those indicated. The smallness of the staffs of the secondary department and the inadequacy of the salaries provided remove differentiation still further from practical consideration. .Owing to the remoteness of the district great difficulty is experienced in obtaining or retaining certificated teachers. In the Board's opinion the teacher's D certificate is too advanced for the minimum requirement, in view of the fact that a majority of the schools of the Dominion are under sole teachers. The following passage is an extract from a report recently presented by tho Inspector of Schools : " The Board has on previous occasions recommended the adoption of a provisional certificate based on an examination in subjects of the primary course, with a standard of test higher than Standard VI, but lower than that of the D examination. Such a certificate would not have effect where any candidate for a position possessed a D certificate. It has to be noted that over 60 per cent, of the schools of the Dominion are under sole teachers, and that a very large majority of the teachers with salaries below £150 aro without certificates. In this district the only certificated teachers with salaries below that amount are those who have relatives in the immediate vicinity of their schools, and have therefore special inducement to remain. It is true that a number of the teachers without certificates have passed the Junior Civil Service or the Matriculation Examination, but none of these courses is possible to many living in remote districts. The first object of an examination of such teachers is to ensure an adequate amount of knowledge of the subjects in which they are required to give instruction. The exacting requirements of the lowest certificate issued is at. present a grave discouragement to those who have not tho advantage of a preliminary course of secondary education, and who cannot use the opportunities furnished by a position on the staff of a large school or by a studentship in a training college." Tho Board's experience is that the present regulations relating to teachers' certificates are applicable mostly to students trained in the large schools and training colleges, and that such students, when qualified, do not remain in this district. North Canterbury Education District. L. B. Wood, M.A. Edin., Member of the Board of Governors of Canterbury College. The system of training teachers in New Zealand which has been in operation now for about eight years is largely the outcome of a report on training colleges for teachers drawn up by the Education Committee of the House of Representatives in October, 1903. The report recommended that four training colleges should be established, one in each of the University centres of the Domin on, and it set forth the policy to be adopted with regard to the education of the students during a two-years course of training. This education was to be given at two separate institutions, tho normal training college and the University College, with a twofold object in view. At the normal training college the students were to be taught the practical work of their profession, and concurrently they had all of them to pursue a course of liberal studies in literary and scientific subjects at the University College with the object of giving them some claim to be considered educated men and women. Such a system of education is foredoomed to failure from the very nature of the case. It is based on a fundamental misconception. For an essential condition of its success requires that the training college should be filled with the educational elite of our secondary schools, and that this brilliant band of students should be endowed with superhuman strength to enable them to survive the double-milling process of education they are put through in their two-years course of training. I need not point out how far we are from being able to realize this high ideal; the golden age of the teaching profession is not yet. Under the stress of the system the evils engendered are far-reaching ; students are called upon to undertake a hopeless task, professors are put in the position of the steam-hammer employed to crack nuts, and secondary schools are bereft of promising pupils whose subsequent education is frequently misdirected. He also advocated -fire appointment of an Education Commission of three men to travel in the Old Country and on the Continent of Europe and report as to reforms in the education system. C. E. Bevan-Brown, Principal, Christchurch Boys' High School. In reply- to a question asked as to whether the boys at W r est Christchurch District High School could be divided between his school and the Technical Day School, Mr. Bevan-Brown says that the agreement made with the Government should be carried out —viz., that the high school should not be compelled to receive proficiency pupils who could not prove by examination that they could profitably work with junior free-place holders. North Canterbury Headmasters' Association. Miscellaneous readers should bo discarded in favour of continuous readers. Miss E. Chaplin, Christchurch. Suggesting, on behalf of the North Canterbury Women Teachers' Association, that in the large town schools the upper standards of girls should be taught by women, the head woman teacher in such a department to be paid a salary equal to that of infant-mistress.
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W. C. Aiken, Chairman and Committeeman of East Christchurch School District for Ten Years. Recommending stoppage of issue of free books, reduction of number of returns, simplification of syllabus, abolition of present Education Department, and establishment of Council of Education. F. D. Waller, 8.A., A. C. Maxwell, and J. E. Purchase, on behalf of the Assistant Masters in North Canterbury Education District. (1.) That the arithmetic syllabus be revised in the direction of providing for more mechanical work in the lower standards, and a better dif-tribution be made with a view to lightening the work of the Sixth and Fifth Standards. (2.) That woodwork be deleted, and that the amount-of work required from girls in such subjects as arithmetic be lessoned, in order that the demands made by cookery may not press so heavily upon them. If some such curtailment of the syllabus as this were made the time thus saved could be spent in strengthening the essential subjects and in providing for the more faithful treatment of history, a subject now much neglected in our schools. Apparatus. —We behove that the results of our teaching would be of much greater value if a more liberal supply of up-to-date apparatus could be provided. The lack of suitable apparatus is especially felt in the teaching of mathematical geography 7. Pupil-teachers. —-We view with much concern the reluctance of boys to enter the profession. It is almost impossible to induce those best qualified to apply for pupil-teacherships, and when a vacancy 7 has to be filled there is practically no choice whatever. Hence it appears as though the day is not far distant when our schools will be entirely staffed by women. The causes for this state of affairs are not far to seek. A boy to be eligible for a pupil-teachership must, as a rule, have matriculated, but a boy who has matriculated can. generally find far more promising openings in other occupations ; he sees that his training will be a long and arduous one ; ho knows that his promotion will be haphazard and uncertain, and his remuneration, even if he is successful, will not bear comparison with that in other walks of life. General. —W T e would like to emphasize what has been already said in other centres regarding the discontent in. the profession. In our opinion this is due to the following causes : — 1. Inadequate Remuneration. —Not only are we worse paid than those engaged in commercial pursuits, but worse than those in other branches of the Public Service. We consider that our services to the community aro not less valuable than those of the Railway servant or Post Office official. As a table will be submitted for your consideration in Wellington showing the relative positions of the teaching profession to those of other branches of the service we do not desire to labour the point here, but we would state that in our opinion the country will never get the maximum amount of good from its primary educational course until the profession receives justice in this respect. It is a maxim in the industrial world that wages in any occupation must be as high as those offered in other occupations competing with it, or the supply of labour will fall off. Our profession is suffering from a violation of this principle. This is the first and fundamental reason for the unpopularity of the profession, and for the refusal of parents to allow their boys to become teachers. Then we suffer under another disability —viz., variation in amount of salary, even with increasing efficiency. We condemn absolutely 7 as unjust payment on average attendance. We appreciate the efforts made of recent years to improve the method, but average attendance still forms the basis of payment, and the principle merits the strongest condemnation. No one has ever suggested paying the Postmaster according to the number of letters or telegrams received in his office. If no better system can be devised we ask that at least " excepted " half-days should be those on which the attendance falls below 66f per cent, of the roll number. This would mitigate, if it did. not remove, the disability. 2. Method of Promotion. —There is nothing more galling to teachers, nothing that causes more heartburnings and indignation, than the method of appointment. We condemn the present method for the following reasons : (I.) It has been admitted before your Commission that the names sent in to the Committees are not always those recommended by the Inspectors. We consider that no Board of Education is more capable of judging the fitness of teachers for a position than its own Inspectors are. (2.) It has happened, times without number, that School Committees have not selected the candidate placed first on the Board's list, but have appointed the fourth or least eligible. We cannot state too strongly our opposition to a system of promotion depending upon the selection by School Committees. We consider that Committees have not the necessary information before them to choose wisely ; that their choice is often determined by side-issues which do not affect the efficiency of the teacher —for example, personal acquaintance with an applicant which often counts more than the most valuable certificates ; that influence from all kinds of sources is brought to bear upon Committees to secure a vote for a favoured candidate ; that the astute canvasser is given a distinct advantage over the more modest, retiring teacher who is hardly conscious of his own merits ; and that, in fact, the selection by School Committees is always a gamble. We deplore most of all the system of personal canvassing which is now necessary before an appointment can be secured, and we trust that one of the improvements brought about by the setting-up of your Commission will be the absolute prohibition of this practice. We strongly urge that in place of the present unsatisfactory method of promotion a system be introduced by which Boards of Education shall make the appointment on the advice of their Inspectors. This would be a reform of the greatest value, and would go far towards the removal of the present discontent. 3. Various Disabilities under tvhich Teachers suffer. — (a.) That married assistants do not receive hou ,c allowance. This is a grievance now, inasmuch as it is the policy of some Boards, where possible, to promote the headmasters of country schools to the position of first assistant in the large town schools. When these come into town they often find they are worse off financially, in that they have to pay rent. On this account we ask that married assistants should receive house allowance as per scale.
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(b.) That in many cases the removal, expenses of teachers receiving promotion exceed the increase in their first year's salary. We would suggest that, following the procedure in other Departments of the Public Service, the Department should pay these, (c.) Teachers are being continually required to fit themselves to teach new branches of education, such as agriculture, first aid to the injured, military drill; and, lastly, they are to be required to bocomo proficient enough to conduct a preliminary medical examination of school-children. All these are. no doubt, desirable, but a knowledge of them is rewarded by no extra remuneration. » Alfred Moore, Secretary and Director, Ashburton Technical Classes Association. Manual instruction is fulfilling its function as an integral part of education, and its value would be enhanced if its aims and objects were bettor understood by the teaching profession, few of which, other than Inspectors, a few headmasters, and assistants, understand the principles upon which the subject is based, or realize that manual work is more a complement of ordinary subjects taught than an additional subject. The students attending a training college have little or no notion of these fundamental educational principles, and it is quite the rule to hear tho manual-room spoken of as the " carpenter's shop," and to see on their faces a half-pitying, half-indulgent smile when one mentions the names'of Socrates, Comenius, Locke, Rousseau, Postalozzi, and Froebel in connection with manual training. A short course of lectures should be given at training colleges, with tho special aim of giving students a grip of the principles underlying manual work and subjects to which it is correlated. A laborious course of manual work for training students should not be instituted. The interpretation of " teacher " in Part VIII, 196, of tho Education Act should read to include all manual teachers or instructors. With regard to the training and examination of manual-training teachers, the time has now arrived when this should be conducted systematically within the Dominion. The salaries of manual and technical teachers should be increased. A senior manual teacher (woodwork) of a district should receive salary equal to a first assistant of a Grade 9 school, and assistants according to the number attending their centres. Cookery teacher's salary as for second assistant of Grade 9. The salaries should be controlled by tho Education Act. Where rural district high schools for agriculture are to be established for tho training of Standard V and Standard. VI pupils and for agricultural continuation classes, economy in building, equipment, staffing, and administration could be effected by amalgamating with technical schools where such schools are not technical day schools, as well as serving its purpose as a centre for manual classes. The question of help for backblock mothers has occupied the country for some considerable time. That these women —who are the backbone of the country as settlers, and perhaps the most valuable asset the country can boast as mothers of a strong, healthy race —should have all the assistance possible in their time of tria l is unquestionable. This assistance could bo gi yon by consent of the Minister in Charge of Hospitals for establishing a maternity ward at a toehn cal college hostel in the charge of a trained maternity nurse, where the e'der girls could be trained in the "labour ward," and the younger girls havo training in the care of the baby and the invalid mother, the preparation of their food, &c. This would be im 7 aluable as a concrete form of their invalid cookery, home-nursing, and hygiene, and would afford a, splendid opportunity for the teaching- of sexual physiology by the trained nurse in charge. H. G. Wake,, M.A., Headmaster, East Christchurch, School. The causes of the dearth of teachers are the totally inadequate remuneration offered to teachers as compared with the advantages attached to other vocations, and the utter chaos as regards appointments, and especially the system of protection whereby, with rare exceptions, a teacher is barred from appointment to an outside district. The second great cause of discontent is the chaotic means of making appointments, and it is no figure of speech to say that the profession is seething with dissatisfaction from the North (Jape to the Bluff through this one cause. The larger of the thirteen educational districts have, from the laudatory desire to reward the deserving among their own teachers, erected a wall of protection against which the outside teacher, as a rule, beats in vain. He may surpass the local man in experience, in scholarship, in past successes, but it avails naught. He is an outsider, and outside he must remain, while he sees a comparative neophyte promoted over his head simply because he is on the spot. I would strongly urge as remedies for the present, dearth of teachers : (1.) A much more adequate scale of remuneration to both assistants and head-teachers, so that the best brains may be drawn to the service and kept there. (2.) Either a national sy 7 stem of promotion, or, failing that, what is perhaps more practicable—the merging of the thirteen districts into four large districts, thus giving all teachers a chance of being at some time within touch of a University centre, and a wider scope for their energies. Lancelot Watson, Headmaster, East Oxford School. The present syllabus is a great advance on former syllabuses, and, where teachers enter into its spirit, much better results are and can be obtained. Notwithstanding this, arithmetic still occupies a too prominent place. The amount of arithmetic used by the majority of pupils passing through our schools is comparatively small, yet the amount taught would appear to indicate that it was the most important subject. It cannot be gainsaid that there is a great danger of our youth growing up into inexpert workers. Even where boys and girls take up definite callings the definite training given in those callings is likely to be meagre, and unless the young operative is enthusiastic he may become a pure mechanical operative, with neither real skill nor initiative. The majority of boys take up those callings that are open to them. It seems necessary in self-defence for the Dominion to institute a definite system of vocational training. In every district there should be continuation classes for vocational subjects, and to these classes every employee should be compelled, to attend a certain
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number of hours a year up to the age of twenty-one. Besides the vocational subjects the only other compulsory subjects should be English and economics, the former as the medium of expression and the latter as an absolute necessity, in order that the individual may take an intelligent interest in legislative and commercial activities. While the Committees governing district high schools choose the syllabus that shall be followed in their schools, there are certain subjects that should hold a compulsory place. When it is remembered that the majority of pupils attend the district, high schools for a period of two years or less, it seems reasonable to demand that the training undertaken during that period should be of lasting benefit and likely to result in the making of citizens. On this account I think that much of the time at present, devoted to French, Latin, and other less useful subjects might well be devoted to more advanced English, to history and civics, and to commercial geography. F. Bowler, Yaldhurst, Christchurch. Forwarding suggestions on the education system, including improvement of school residences ; house allowances for married teachers £50, and for unmarried teachers £20 ; no reduction of a teacher's salary through fall in attendance ; definite positions in schools to be allotted to women and men ; reduction of certificate grades to two ; schools should not exceed 600 in average attendance : inauguration of a teachers' promotion scheme ; School Committees to be abolished in favour of two Commissioners and the teacher ; three months' pay for sick teachers, and well-paid relieving teachers to be employed ; abolition of table of deductions from allowance to teachers who have retired before sixty with less than forty years' service ; reform in the method of appointment of Inspectors, and manner in which their work is carried out; simplification of arithmetic ; election of some of the members of Education Boards by teachers; the abolition of the system of examination for proficiency 7 certificates of country and town pupils at one school; placing of Grades 1, 2, and 3 schools in two grades, and increase of salaries in the lower grades of the service ; test cards in Standard VI arithmetic, and English to conform more closely to the syllabus ; text-book on historyshould be supplied, and a reduction in the requirements for geography. o'Bryan Hoare, Christchurch. Dealing with, the unnatural and unscientific character of the present system of education in the light of the nature of the child. G. H. Gilby, Christchurch. Properly qualified teachers should be appointed for shorthand and typewriting. Shorthand is on too low a plane in the Junior Civil Service Examination as compared with botany or physiology. The primary-school syllabus is overcrowded, and more home-work should be given. Commercial students in technical and secondary schools should be inspected and examined by an independent Government, examiner. St. John's Ambulance Association, Canterbury and West Coast Centre. Urging that, teachers should be compelled to obtain a first-aid certificate, and that a simple course of first aid should be included in the syllabus for scholars over the Fourth Standard. The centre specially stressed the necessity for teachers in out-of-the-way places being thoroughly equipped in such work, and suggested, that all schools should be equipped with a first-aid cabinet. Miss M. B. Lovell-Smith, Superintendent Legal and Parliamentary Department, Women's Christian Temperance Union of New Zealand. Forwarding a report of sub-committee of association upon the domestic-help difficulty, and suggesting that a lessening of the time spent by girls on mathematics might, lead to the possibility of increase in domestic instruction. Miss Lillian Macgeorge, Acting Hon. Secretary, Eugenics Education Society. Urging eugenic teaching in the schools. Miss Ada, Wells, President Canterbury Women's Institute, and Miss Lucy M. Smith, Secretary. Drawing attention to the overcrowding of many of the schools and to defects in the architecture, furniture, and construction of School buildings. The inadequate playground provision was deplored, and suggestions made for the supervision of games by trained instructors. A nurse or nurse teacher should be provided for every school to care for derelicts, and hot baths should be attached to the schools. School uniforms should be worn, and gymnasia established. Attached to every 7 school should be a creche and kindergarten, where girls should receive instruction in the care and training of infants and young children. In conjunction with the kitchen necessary for domestic instruction a (lining-hall should also be attached, to the school, where a midday meal cooked by the girls should be supplied for children remaining at school in the dinner-hour. Compulsory extension classes favoured. Elocution should be given a prominent place in the syllabus. Geography and general knowledge should be taught by moving pictures. History should be taught by drama and by pictures and story-telling. Competitive examinations should be as far as possible abolished. Equal wage for equal work absolutely essential, and women teachers should be eligible for highest positions in the schools. Other points dealt with were amalgamation of country schools, exclusion of military authorities from schools, election of School Committees, individual and group teaching, peripatetic teachers for special subjects, specialization by 7 teachers, and teaching of English, arithmetic, morals, and domestic science.
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George Booth, Christchurch. Forwarding syllabus of training in the private and public duties of life, as adopted by the Education Committee of the Surrey County Council for use in its schools. National Peace Council. Enclosing leaflet opposing compulsory military training in schools. Otago Education District. C. R. Richardson, Chief Inspector for Otago. Wrote regarding the necessity of extending the railway concessions for teachers and pupils so as to provide for such cases as those referred to below. The sixty-mile limit at present insisted on should be abolished in the case of uncertificated teachers who are attending classes to enable them to prepare for examination. In support of this request four typical cases are quoted, viz. : Teacher A rides sixteen miles through bush tracks, attends six classes weekly, and reaches home on Sunday about midday. His out-of-pocket, week-end expenses are lis., including 3s. railway fare to the sixty-mile limit. His salary is £90. Teacher B lives seven miles from the present terminus of the railway in a bush district, attends six classes weekly, and reaches home about 12 on Saturday evening. His out of-pocket week-end expenses are Bs. 6d., including 3s. 6d. railway fare to the sixty-mile limit. He is a married man, with a salary of £139. Teacher C rides twelve miles, attends four classes, and reaches home about 10 on Saturday night. His out-of-pocket week-end expenses amount to 12s. 6d., including 2s. Bd. railway fare to the sixty-mile limit. His salary is £112 10s. Teacher D, a young woman in a new settlement, rides sixteen miles, attends six classes, and reaches home about 12 on Saturday night or on Sunday. Her week-end out-of-pocket expenses amount to 12s. 6d., including 2s. Bd. railway fare to the sixty-mile limit. Her salary is £42. School passes should be available where necessary to cover school pupils' travel on Saturday. In the Otago District, owing to intermittent rail service, some pupils who have to board in order to attend school may return home on Friday evening, but in order to get to school in time on Monday have to return to their lodgings on Saturday. At first the railway authorities made some demur, as the regulations do not cover Saturday travelling by school pupils. If such a concession as is here referred to were granted, teachers would be able to extend the outdoor work in such subjects as geography, nature-study, and surveying in the rural course. At present the concessions for teachers are available only on Friday evening and Saturday. Much more might be done for teachers if they were allowed to attend classes on any evening of the week The Friday concession might be extended so as to be, available for return on Monday where such concession did not interfere with the school-hours. Such a concession would enable us to group pupil-teachers and probationers for tuition to a greater extent than is at present possible. While bringing these matters forward I should like to bear testimony to the readiness and generosity of the Department in granting us concessions in special cases that we have brought under its notice, and to express my conviction that every matter having for its object the advancement of the teachers has received the most favourable consideration from the Department. S. Botting, North School, Oamaru. Pointing out the injustice he was suffering through a deduction of 5 per cent, of his salary because he was not twenty-one years of age, although he had passed the examination for C certificate and had spent two years at the Dunedin Teachers' Training College. Arthur W. Tyndall, Thirty Years Headmaster of Rural Schools in Otago. Teachers should be taught to reconcile themselves to the privations of country life, and encouraged to appreciate its advantages and delights. It is desirable also that rural teachers should periodically assemble to discuss matters of common interest. A better plan of imparting instruction to teachers would be to hold classes in rural centres, and obtain free passes for the instructors, not the instructed. Abolish the Education Boards and you save money, while also simplifying administration. As an alternative 1 suggest a reduction of Boaj-ds to four, their members to be appointed, not elected. To the overuse of the elective system I attribute most of the defects of our scheme of education. In connection with householders' meetings, it is remarkable that the statutory time of meeting is fixed for a night which is invariably moonless, and at a period of the year usually wet and stormy. Appointment of members of Education Boards by the Government would be preferable to the present haphazard method of election by members of School Committees in secret ballot. Compared with schools of Grade 4 schools of Grade, 6a are understaffed. The requirements in English are needlessly voluminous. Analysis, synthesis, sentence structure, function of words, and linguistic exercises generally take up so much time, that I cannot jam in enough exercise in the expression of ideas to secure copiousness and fluency of either oral or written diction. Under present circumstances I cannot give naturestudy, geography, history, health, and the cultivation of the faculty of clear, concise, and prompt expression that attention which I think is due to them. Many of the lessons in the new Pacific Readers are written in a style which is too heavy, too stilted, too verbose, too sesquipedalian, too circumlocutory, and too allusive to be comprehensible or interesting to most children. Allusiveness is a fashionable foible in modern journalism. The readers and also the School Journal furnish plenty of examples of this shirking of direct Statements which is particularly exasperating to an instructor. Scholarships are too valuable an incentive to children of the backblocks to be lightly cast aside. Inspectors should be under the Education Department, and at least half of them should be women.
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Southland Education District. Southland Education Institute. That the new regulations for the examination and classification of teachers are unsatisfactory, for the reasons that they place at an unjust disadvantage a very large proportion of prospective candidates who will be practically debarred from getting full certificates, and consequently also from a fair chance of promotion ; and in particular that they are unsatisfactory in the following respects : (a.) The provision making it compulsory for a candidate for the D examination to take an approved course in first, aid and ambulance, (b.) The provision requiring a candidate for the D examination to produce a certificate that he has satisfactorily carried out a course of practical work in some elementary science, (c.) The provision making it compulsory for a candidato for tho C examination to pass in some branch of science, including eighty hours' practical work, (d.) The division of the D examination into sections is too unequal, and ignores the principle that there aro subjects requiring priority of study, inasmuch as many candidates must accept positions before completing the full examination, (c.) The addition of an extra subject for the D examination militates against thoroughness, and is uncalled for and inopportune. (/.) Regulation 15 improperly creates an alternative standard of requirements for teachers' certificates by permitting training-college students to obtain classification without passing the regular departmental examination. Assistant Teachers, Southland Girls' High School. Attention is directed to tho want of a general scheme of classification and promotion of teachers in secondary schools, and the inadequate salaries paid, to socondary-school teachers. T. A. Wallace, Invercargill. Scenic and industrial pictures at picture-shows should be encouraged to the very fullest extent, but the bloodcurdling Indian and cowboy and penny-dreadful exhibitions should bo prohibited. W. H. Clark, 8.A., Lumsclen, Southland. Forwarding copy of an article on education contributed by him to the Southland Daily News on the 20th June, 1912. Consolidation of Schools. The various Boards obligingly furnished the Commission with a considerable amount of information in regard to the possibility of consolidating country schools, with the exception of South Canterbury, which Board refused to supply any details. Sexual Physiology. George Home, M.D.. Ch.M. Edin., D.P.H. Lond. The importance of giving young people a definite acquaintance with these subjects is being slowly but widely recognized. W 7 hether one regards it from the point of view of public morals or of public health there is everything to be said in favour of such a movement, and no argument against it will bear a searching examination. It is not too much to claim that the right kind of foreknowledge in these matters would help to exclude a good deal of misery and disease from mankind, and, if so, it is quite wrong to withhold the information from tho general public. It is the only way in which we can begin an attempt to deal with the great problem of venereal diseases and certain social factors bound up with these, which constitute a great moral and sanitary blot upon our civilization. People of case-hardened ideas and resentful of the intrusion of new ones will turn from the subject in traditional disgust, but the majority of the general public, aro opon-mindod enough to let tho advocates of this teaching have at least a fair hearing, for if presented properly it should bo a perfectly wholesome subject, and equally important with educating the children is educating the grown-up people into a right-minded way of regarding it. 1 venture to give the actual wording of a lesson such as might be given to children of, say, twelve to fourteen years of ago. The words and phrasing, of course, require very careful choosing and arrangement —the idea of " father " and " mother " must be kept constantly before the children —and tho language must be designedly simple. Tho method of approach is the comparative method beginning with reproductive processes in lower forms of life and leading to the higher. To educated people it appears ludicrously easy, almost a laughing-stock of simplicity ; but it cannot be too explicit within the limits prescribed, and it is addressed to young children who have not as yet acquired mental attitudes of aversion or disgust at the mention of those things, but who are naturally and frankly deeply interested. The lesson would run in outline as follows :— " All life comes from some other life of the same kind that has been in the world before it. This is true in all things —human beings, animals, birds, plants, right down to the smallest living things which are so small that we can only see them with tho microscope, and which wo call microbes. Now, these smallest and simplest of living things each grow to full sizo, divide ovenly into two halves, and each half again grows to full size, and so on. That is quite simple. But when we come to bigger, higher, more complicated living things, such as plants and animals, we find that young ones aro not produced in quite such a simple way, but that thoro is a male or father part, and a female or mother part, which must come together to produce young ones. Take a flower like a lily, for instance. Inside the pretty coloured part of the flower there are things like stalks, and some of them have at the end of each a swelling, which has on it yellow or brown powder, which sometimes comes off on to your nose when you smell the flower. This powder is called pollen, and it is the male or father part
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of the flower. Right in the middle of the flower is another kind of stalk with a small sticky patch at the end of it, and if you cut across the bottom part of the stalk you will find inside it small round white things, which would have become the seed. This is the female part or mother part of the flower, and it is called the ovary or thing that contains tho eggs. Now, the pollen or male part is taken to the female part by an insect, or in some other kinds of flowers by the wind. The yellow powder sticks to the sticky place mentioned, and from each grain of the powder there grows down a tube-like process into the female or mother part, or ovary, and these processes join with the little roundish white things. After this has happened these become seeds, and when they are ripe young plants can grow from them. This meeting of the male and female parts of the flower is called fertilization or making fertile—that is, able to produce young ones —for without this meeting no seeds that could grow would be produced, and all parts of the flower would die. Now, let us learn what happened in the case of fishes. The female or mother fish has in her body a bag containing a very great many little round clear things, like very small clear sago grains. The bag is the ovary (remember the ovary of the flower) and tho little round things are the eggs. In the spring-time the mother fish prepares a place in the bottom of the water that she lives in, and there lays many 7 thousands of eggs. Then the male fish or father fish comes along, and pours out of his body a fluid over them, which is in its use like the pollen of the flower, for it fertilizes thorn, and the eggs can then grow into young fishes. Now, flowers and fish generally produce a great lot of seeds and eggs, and the flowers produce a great lot of pollen, for large quantities are carried away by the wind and the water, and in the case of fish it is only because there are a very great number that some are fertilized and grow into fish. " Let us now take the case of birds. You all know that young birds come out of eggs, and that eggs are laid in a nest by the mother bird ; therefore the eggs are produced in the body of the mother bird. Now the mother bird lays comparatively only a few eggs, and when the egg is laid it has a hard shell, so the egg must be, fertilized before it is laid. For this reason the father bird must introduce, the fertilizing fluid into the body 7 of the mother bird where it can find the eggs and join with them before the shells are formed. If this is not done the eggs would be laid, but none of them would be able to begin the growth of young birds. Now, when we come to four-footed animals and human beings there is only one other condition which is different and which I wish you to take notice of — that is, while the bird lays its eggs and sits upon them, so that by the. warmth of its body they are hatched into young birds, in the higher animals and in human beings the egg, after it is fertilized, remains inside the mother's body until the young one is fully formed and grows to a certain size. Then it is born a living being. You will now see how very important the reproductive organs are. Without them, indeed, there would be no new life. Therefore they must be regarded and treated with every care and respect, and nature punishes any disrespect or misuse of these organs. They must be kept clean and free from irritation, and not handled or played with, and they should not be talked about except in a wholesome way. A good many people and boys, and sometimes even girls, who are not nice-minded, say nasty things about them. You should not listen to nor even be seen with those who talk that way. It is very harmful for your character and also for your health to have thoughts that are not nice. It is right that you should know something about the reproductive organs, but you should not keep your thoughts on them, but upon your work and your games. Impure thoughts lead to secrecy and sneakishness, and later on in life to practices which do the reproductive organs great harm, and also bring disease and bad health not only to the body itself, but to the children that might be born afterwards. There is a lot of this disease and bad health because boys and girls have not been told about the harm that might come from bad and immoral thoughts and habits." I am of opinion that if the necessary knowledge is conveyed in some such simple straightforward way it would preclude curiosity and secret discussion, because the children's natural desire for knowledge would be rightly satisfied. Girls, if anything, need more explicit instruction than boys. There is, if possible, less danger of injury to their thoughts, and the possible results of ignorance are to them more lasting and terrible. Their sexual instincts are, as a rule, less, and their parental instincts greater than those of boys. They require special teaching regarding the signs of their ripening reproductive functions. It should be quite easy for mothers to do at least this much, and a good many mothers probably do explain the natural changes that occur ; but I know of several cases where this has not been done, and many a. young gifl has brooded in misery and fear for months over a natural manifestation about which she was afraid to ask even her parent. To older children —public-school boys, for example —a deeper talk might be given, especially regarding the consequences of misuse and abuse of their reproductive functions. They should be taught that continence and chastity are no detriment. On the other hand, these are precisely what, will fit them to be good husbands, good fathers, good citizens. It is in the irresponsible years between leaving school and entering upon a fixed occupation for life, a time of ignorance, impulses, recklessness, and comparative idleness, that this knowledge will be of direct and controlling benefit. It will raise the moral and intellectual tone of young people, and will maintain the mutual respect of the sexes. The only ultimately successful nations are the moral nations, and the index of the morality of a nation is the respect which its men maintain towards its women. In the teaching of sexual physiology and hygiene the ideal method would be for the parents, especially the mother, to explain these things to their children. Why do parents neglect to explain these matters ? Every thinking person knows that this neglect is wrong. Even the most devoted parents are reticent, and cannot talk rightly 7 on these subjects to their children. The reason is because parents have a wrong mental attitude towards the subject, themselves. This most sacred of relations retains in their minds some taint of uncleanliness, because they have generally got their first impres-
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sions i-n an objectionable manner —because they have got their earliest knowledge of sexual matters through sly, secret, and unwholesome channels, and it has never got free from these associations. The young growing child has a normal curiosity, and does not restrict questions. Every child especially wants to know how babies came into the world. The ideal would be for the parents to be able to answer these questions in a frank and natural manner when the child is beginning to be old enough to understand. Secrecy and disgust are implanted in the child's mind by the way in which it is " turned down "in these inquiries. Then the child enters upon puberty. Different bodily feelings and impulses and mental attitudes arise. The beginning adolescent feels that it cannot get any information from parents, and generally acquires a varied amount of mischievous misinformation from associates. What requires to be done is that they should get the requisite knowledge in an authoritative, frank, and legitimate way, not. in highly objectionable and secret, channels which do not convey the requisite knowledge, but something far otherwise. Looked at in this way what harm can the proper teaching do ? It is admitted that most young people arrive at a certain sort of knowledge—or misknowledge. Would it not be infinitely better that they should be taught cleanly and rightly ? If properly done I cannot see that pure-minded, innocent young people could possibly gain any harmful suggestions. I again emphasize the necessity for starting young, while the child's mind is frank and open on this subject, and before any adult notions of horror or disgust have been planted in it. That is the way to get. the future fathers and mothers of our race into a right-minded way 7 of looking at this subject. Only in this way will this sacred and important relation be rescued in people's minds from the taint and reproach which now cling around it. Reproduction is a natural process which should no more be regarded vulgarly than the bursting of buds or the opening of flowers. Children should be taught about it as they are taught, about any other legitimate business in life, for is not the chief business in life the reproduction of life ? In the Lingam worship in India, which is devoted to the reproductive, organs, the temples are among the cleanest in the country, in marked contrast to other temples in which merely religious gods are adored. Now, until the parents are able to undertake this duty towards their children the schools should take it up, and they are going to take it up. Collective instruction has its disadvantages, but it is apparently a necessary step for the present until the community can arrive at a sufficient number of parents who will carry on individual instruction. Individual instruction given by parents in the household allows of increased mutual confidence and trust between them and their children. This privilege should, not be taken from parents if possible, but the parents must qualify first if they would retain it. Even if we start teaching the children now, the best part of a generation must probably come and go before there is diffused sufficient knowledge to make a, majority of adults who will regard the whole question in a right-minded, open-minded, natural way. Recognizing that the chief difficulty is to arrive at the best method of presenting this teachirg to the children, I have attempted a model form of address as a guide to those teachers who might feel inclined to take up the lines indicated. It could be linked on to nature-study, but it should not be regarded as a course of instruction —rather as a confidential talk between teacher and children, and it need not occupy more than one hour a year, or perhaps twice a year. In my opinion it would be a great mistake to attempt to make it. elaborate—like wit, brevitj 7 should be the soul of it. I should like it so presented that the children would not regard it as a lesson. Even to the best-intentioned child a, school lesson often sets up a more or less mechanical attitude of mind which tends to preclude the application of his common-sense to the subject-matter. The requisite amount of knowledge is so small that it should be easily within the scope of any right-minded teacher to acquire it, and with a little careful direction to be able to impart it. Diffidence on the part of the teacher would have to be overcome, and the best way to do this would be to have a short, set course on the subject in the technical schools or colleges which the teacher might attend. A short syllabus of this course, or the actual addresses for it, could be drawn up by a committee of medical men or biologists for the exact guidance of the technical instructor, or a printed form of a suitable address might be supplied to every teacher. Of course, it would be better still if the Governmentwould secure and maintain salaried, specially trained men and women who would devote themselves to the instruction of the people, and who would especially teach sexual physiology and hygiene in every school. If these specialists should not be forthcom'ng the work of instruction would then devolve upon the school-teachers. One would be sorry to impose more upon their generally already overburdened shoulders, but then many much less useful and important sections of the ordinary school curriculum could be pointed out and perhaps partly excised. The subject under discussion is one of truly vital importance—rules of syntax and algebra are not, and after school life are generally allowed to slide into the limbo of forgotten things ; but even in the present crowded school curriculum (which ever reminds one of Ecclesiastes, xii, 12) the very short annual allowance of time for instruction in sexua I physiology and hygiene could be easily interpolated. Dr. Robert Church, Dunedin. Recommending that, in view of the negligence of parents, a properly qualified instructor should visit schools and give a few lessons to boys in Standards IV, V, and VI on sex physiology, and recommending the reading by boys of such, a book as " WTiat a Boy ought to know." He strongly opposed the suggestion that a single woman lecturer should be allowed to teach sexual physiology in tho schools to girls. Rev. W. Edward Lush, M.A., Vicar of Epiphany Church, Auckland. Suggesting that in Sixth Standard lectures by special instructors should be given to boys and girls on the subject of sexual physiology, and urging that such instruction should be given. " One solid lecture in the life of each child ought to do—that is, one a, year to all of the Sixth Standard."
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Dr. P. Winstone, Mount Eden Road, Auckland, and Dr. McMaster, Ponsonby, Auckland. Urging tho appointment of two lecturers (one of each sex) on the subject of sexual physiology. R. A. Armstrong, Mount Eden, Auckland. . " Suggesting, in regard to instruction in sex physiology, that a special committee should be appointod to deal with tho problem of the most desirable method of instruction, which " should be as simple and straightforward as possible, the physical truths to go hand-in-hand with the moral truths. The subject should bo mado one of tho ordinary facts of nature. Reverence for parenthood and the married state should be inculcated." ./. W. Tibbs, M.A., Headmaster, Auckland Grammar School. There is grave danger of arousing prurient curiosity and unhealthy discussion among boys by any form of direct teaching on tho subject of sexual physiology. In my opinion it is safer to trust to general moral teaching on the lines laid down by St. Paul—" Finally, brethren, whatsoever things are truo, whatsoever things aro honest, whatsoever things aro just, whatsoever things are pure, whatsoever things aro lovoly, whatsoever things aro of good report : if thero bo any virtue, if there be any 7 praiso, think on those things." The so-called " export," insisted on by more than one witness, might easily bo as dangerous to others as he is to himself, from the fact that his temperament may be naturally morbid, or may have become morbid, through continual brooding on the subject. lam not sure whether it is in the best interests of family life that the teacher should invade the prerogative of the parent at all in this matter; but, if anything is to be said, I hold that it should come from a trusted toachor rather than from an " export "of whom nothing is known by the parent. lam of opinion, that teachers should not bo too ready to allow outsiders to address their children on any subject. Oscar D. Flamank, Headmaster of North-east Valley School, Dunedin. Instruction in sexual physiologj 7 should be extended to all children of both sexes, and special instructors for this purpose should ho appointod. In making such appointments the following matters should have full consideration : The actual amount of phys ology to be taught is so small that the services of a medical man are not required ; it is not tho amount of physiology that is of first importance, but tho method of its presentation. To ensure that the instruction shall be given in the most beneficial manner the instructors must possess — (a) Very great tact; (6) sympathy with child- ife ; (c) ability to teach largo classes ; (d) above all else, ability to surround the whole teaching with a proper atmosphere. It is on tho street that children, whoso minds are not stored with correct information on several matters, fall a prey to contaminating influences. Much of the impurity which now exists would bo prey 7 entod by tho adoption of a curfow law similar to that in force in many American cities. Children under sixteen years of ago should not bo, allowed to roam about the streets at late hours unless under special circumstances or accompanied by a proper guardian. F. C. J. Bellringer, Chairman, Taranaki Hospital and Charitable Aid Board, New Plymouth. Forwarding reprints of a paper on " The Laws of Health," read by him at the Hospital Boards Conforonco of 1911. The Women's Christian Temperance Union, Stratford Branch. Suggesting the appointment of Mr. R. W. Bligh, lecturer of the White Cross League, as teacher of sexual physiology in tho schools. Life-saving. Kennedy Basselt, Chairman Canterbury Head Centre, Royal Life-saving Society. Urging that for training colleges a regulation should be framed requiring students to acquire the art of life-saving. He further suggested that the capitation for last year of a pupil's instruction should bo paid only whon tho pupil has learned to swim a distance of 50 yards, and that in the event of his obtaining an elementary certificate of tho life-saving society an extra capitation fee of 2s. 6d. be paid to tho teacher. Swimming shoulcTbe made a compulsory subject. 67. S. Hill, Chairman of Executive, Wellington Head Centre, Royal, Life-saving Society. On same subject. Approximate Cost of Paper. —Preparation, not given; printing (1,000 copies), £395.
By Authority: John Mackay, Government Printer, Wellington.—l9l3. Price os.]
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https://paperspast.natlib.govt.nz/parliamentary/AJHR1912-II.2.3.2.14
Bibliographic details
EDUCATION COMMISSION (REPORT OF), TOGETHER WITH MINUTES OF PROCEEDINGS AND EVIDENCE., Appendix to the Journals of the House of Representatives, 1912 Session II, E-12
Word Count
816,136EDUCATION COMMISSION (REPORT OF), TOGETHER WITH MINUTES OF PROCEEDINGS AND EVIDENCE. Appendix to the Journals of the House of Representatives, 1912 Session II, E-12
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