ALLEGATIONS MADE BY F.M.B. FISHER, Esq., M.H.R. (CORRESPONDENCE RESPECTING).

Appendix to the Journals of the House of Representatives, 1905 Session I, H-33

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1905. NEW ZEALAND.

ALLEGATIONS MADE BY F.M.B. FISHER, Esq., M.H.R. (CORRESPONDENCE RESPECTING).

Laid on the Table of the House of Bepresenlatives by Leave.

135 H. Dear Sir,— Prime Minister's Office, Wellington, 29th July, 1905. I have the honour to inform you that on Tuesday next it is my intention to bring before the House important documentary evidence in reference to your charge against Captain Seddon, in which you allege he received a given sum of money by voucher, the number and date of which you approximately stated in the House. In the interest of that which is right, honest, and fair it is well that you should be present. I have, &c, P. M. B. Fisher, Esq., M.H.R., Wellington. R. J. Seddon.

Sir, — General Assembly Library, Wellington, 29th July, 1905. Referring to my statement made in the House last evening, re a voucher made out in favour of Captain Seddon, I stated that I was quoting from memory. I now ask for the production of voucher numbered 15819; and I add again, as I did last night, that if you can furnish a complete and satisfactory explanation I shall be the first to acknowledge it and accept it in good faith. I have, &c, P. M. B. Fisher. The Right Hon. R. J. Seddon, Minister of Defence, Wellington.

Sir, — General Assembly Library, Wellington, 7.30 p.m., 29th July, 1905. Two hours ago I received from your Private Secretary a copy of your letter of even date, the original having been delivered at my private residence. In reference to the statement that a "charge" had been levelled against Captain Seddon, I wish first to draw your attention to the following statements made by me in the House last evening. I said, " £76 4s. 9d. was drawn by Captain Seddon in Christchurch last year. Now, I want to know, if tha.t is a proper payment, why it does not appear in the proper way ? Why was not the payment made in Wellington ? What was the purpose of the payment ? What was the real meaning of 'reorganizing the Defence Stores in Wellington ' ? Was this £76 4s. 9d. in addition to his ordinary salary ; and, if it was, how many more charges of a similar nature have been made against the Defence Department ?" Later I said, " I have asked the Premier for a fair explanation, and if he will place before the House a satisfactory answer as regards the payment in question and as regards Mr. Keenan I shall be the first to accept it." These are two literal extracts from my unaltered Hansard proof. Now, as regards your request that I should be in my place in the House on Tuesday next in order to hear your refutation, you are aware that that is not possible. I have booked to leave for the South this evening, and have arranged to speak at Invercargill, Dunedin, and Christchurch. It is not likely, therefore, that you could expect of me that I should cancel these public engagements on the mere promise of a refutation —a promise handed to me within five and one-half hours of the southern steamer leaving. All I can say on this particular matter is this : First, if you intended to refute my allegations on Tuesday next, why did you not notify me earlier? and, second, if your refutation is satisfactory to the House, then you may rest assured it will be perfectly satisfactory to me, as I said in my speech of last evening, and. I shall take the first opportunity on my return of expressing myself upon the question. I think that is fair. I have, &c, F. M. B. Fisher. The Right Hon. R. J. Seddon, Minister of Defence, Wellington.

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Sib,— Wellington, 29th July, 1905. I have the honour to acknowledge receipt of your letter of even date, marked " 7.30 p.m." You infer that my letter of the same date should have reached you earlier. You cannot be oblivious of the fact that the House sat until nearly 5 a.m. this (Saturday) morning. Investigation and search were necessary, and when I was notified of the voucher upon which you had based your allegation that Captain Seddon had received the amount mentioned therein, I wrote you at once, and the letter was sent to your residence. You were not there; and, ascertaining that it had not been delivered to you personally, I requested my secretary to give you a copy, which he did. Whether you remain to attend the House on Tuesday or not is a matter for your discretion. Your veracity and honour being involved, justice and fair play ought to dictate that where a public officer had been wronged by you reparation should be made at the earliest possible opportunity, and you should be in your place in the House to make it. I have, &c, R. J. Seddon. F. M. B. Fisher, Esq., M.H.R., House of Representatives, Wellington.

136 H. Prime Minister's Office, 31st July, 1905. Memorandum for the Under-Secretary for Defence. Be good enough to inform me whether any payment was made to Captain Seddon by way of travelling-allowances or travelling-expenses whilst absent on leave from Wellington and in Australia between 11th March and 3rd May last. R. J. Seddon.

Defence Office, Wellington, Ist August, 1905. Memorandum for the Hon. Defence Minister. In reply to your inquiry of 31st July, I beg to state no payment of travelling-allowance or travelling-expenses was made to Captain Seddon for the period 11th March to 3rd May, 1905, whilst absent on leave from Wellington and in Australia. T. F. Grey, For Under-Secretary Defence.

137 H. Prime Minister's Office, 3lst July, 1905. Memorandum for the Under-Secretary for Defence. Be good enough to inform me whether any payment was made to Captain Seddon by way of travelling-allowances or travelling-expenses whilst absent from Wellington and in Christchurch between the Bth December and the 23rd December, 1904. R. J. Seddon. Defence Office, Wellington, Ist August, 1905. Memorandum for the Hon. Defence Minister. In reply to your inquiry of the 31st July, I beg to state no payment of travelling-allowance or travelling-expenses was made to Captain Seddon for the period Bth December to the 23rd December, 1904, whilst absent from Wellington and in Christchurch. T. F. Grey, For Under-Secretary Defence.

138 H. (Telegram : urgent.) Wellington, Ist August, 1905. Have any payments been made from your office to Captain Seddon at any time ? Reply immediately. Chief Postmaster, Christchurch. R. J. Seddon.

(Telegram : urgent.) Christchurch, Ist August, 1905. There has never been at any time payments to Captain Seddon, and he has never been in my office. J. F. Mcßeth, Hon. the Premier, Wellington. Chief Postmaster.

139 H. Sir,— Wellington, 29th July, 1905. Will you kindly inform me whether the new Volunteer Regulations have been discussed at a meeting of the club, and, if so, when? Yours, &c, The Secretary, Garrison Officers' Library Club, Wellington. R. J. Seddon.

Sir, — Wellington, 31st July, 1905. I have to acknowledge receipt of your letter of 29th instant, and, in reply, have the honour to inform you that the new Volunteer Regulations have not been discussed at a meeting of the club. I have, &c, F. Burton Mabin. The Right Hon. R. J. Seddon, P. 0., LL.D., Prime Minister, New Zealand.

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Wellington, 31st July, 1905. Memorandum for the Right Hon. the Premier. In connection with that letter you sent me, in reference to Garrison Officers' Club, I am sending you the following for your information : — Question asked in the House. My answer. 1. Has a meeting of your club ever been held No. to discuss the new Volunteer Regulations. If so, when ? 2. Did Captain Seddon accompany Lieuten- No. But I remember at our second meeting ant McDonald to any of your meetings? this session, when Major Johnson gave an interesting paper on " Fight between Guns and Armour," also a " Description of Japanese Navy," that Captain Seddon and Lieutenant McDonald were both present. Lieutenant McDonald arrived about 8 p.m. and Captain Seddon came in about 9 p.m. They were sitting on opposite sides of the room, and neither of these officers took part m the discussion. 3. On what authority did these two officers Being officers of the Garrison, and therefore attend this meeting? members of the club, they were duly notified, the same as other officers. 4. Did Lieutenant McDonald take part in Yes. At our first meeting this session he was any discussion at any of these meetings ? especially asked by our chairman to lead the discussion, which he did, and was followed by a number of other officers. The purpose of this particular meeting was to discuss organization. The answers to the first three questions are correct. I was not present at the first meeting, so cannot certify to question 4.— W. H. Webb, President Garrison Officers' Club, 31/7/05. F. Burton Mabin, Hon. Secretary, Garrison Officers' Club.

140 H. Prime Minister's Office, Wellington, Ist August, 1905. The Secretary to the Treasury. Kindly inform me if any payment of public money has ever been made to Captain Seddon at Christchurch or at any other place since he has entered the service for inspection of Defence Stores, or any payments other than salary, travelling-allowance, or travelling-expenses, or for services in South Africa. R. J. Seddon.

The Right Hon. the Premier. Have had careful search made in the Treasury books, and no trace can be found of any payment being made out of public moneys to Captain Seddon for inspection of Defence Stores, or services other than those stated above. R. J. Collins, Ist August, 1905. Assistant Secretary to the Treasury.

(Telegram.) Kumara, 6th January, 1904. Re interment of the late Hon. W. C. Walker, which takes place on Friday afternoon, think you should, as head of the Department over which he presided, endeavour to be present ; but if you cannot go, you should wire to Sir E. O. Gibbes to proceed immediately to Christchurch, and thus insure the Education Department being represented. R. J. Seddon. Hogben, Esq., Inspector of Schools, City Hotel, Dunedin.

141 H. Prime Minister's Office, Wellington, 29th July, 1905. Memorandum for the Secretary to the Treasury. It has been stated in the House that a wreath sent from Ministers for the late Hon. Mr. Walker's funeral was paid out of public moneys. Please say whether this is correct or otherwise. R. J. Seddon.

The Assistant Secretary. Look up vouchers and reply.—J. B. H., 31/7/1905.

The Secretary. There is no entry in the Treasury books of a payment being made out of public moneys for a wreath sent from Ministers for the late Hon. Mr. Walker's funeral. R. J. Collins, Assistant Secretary and Accountant. July 31st, 1905.

The Right Hon. the Colonial Treasurer. No such payment has been made as far as can be traced in the Treasury books. Jas. B. Heywood, Paymaster-General. July 31st, 1905.

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Dear Sir,— Wellington, 29th July, 1905. In looking over my accounts I find a charge of 30s. for a wreath for the late Hon. Mr. Walker's funeral. Please inform me if you paid for this as a private disbursement, as instructed. Yours sincerely, J. Stevenson, Esq., Private Secretary. R. J. Seddon.

Dear Sir,— Wellington, 31st July, 1905. I am in receipt of your letter of even date, and beg to state that I was instructed to procure a wreath to be sent for the late Hon. Mr. Walker's funeral, and to charge it to your private account. This I did. I received an account from Nairn and Co. for the same in March, 1904, and forwarded my cheque in payment of the amount (£1 10s.) on the 18th April, 1904, and was reimbursed by your cheque in the ordinary way. Original receipt attached. Yours faithfully, Right Hon, Mr. Seddon, Wellington. J. Stevenson.

Lincoln Road, Christchurch, New Zealand, March, 1904. N.Z. Ministry, Hon. R. J. Seddon. Dr. to Nairn and Sons, Florists and Nurserymen. Jan. To account rendered ... ... ... ... ... ... £1 10s. Paid by cheque, April 19, 1904, 30s. Nairn and Sons, per A. H. J.

Wellington, 29th July, 1905. Memorandum for Mr. Hogben, Inspector of Schools. I beg to call your attention to an item for a wreath sent for the late Hon. Mr. Walker's funeral, which appears in the Education Department's Contingency Vote for 1904. By whose authority was this obtained and sent ? Was it ordered by any Minister, and was any Minister aware of same, and was Ministerial authority obtained for the payment in question ? R. J. Seddon.

Right Hon. the Minister of Education. 31st July 1905. On the 6th January, 1904, being in Dunedin, I received a telegram [from you suggesting that as Head of the Department I should be present at the Hon. W. C. Walker's funeral. In consequence of this I sent the following telegram to Sir E. O. Gibbes : — " Minister has asked me to represent Department at Hon. W. C. Walker's funeral. Am going accordingly. Have you arranged for wreath ? If not, Symes would probably be best to ask to arrange for one. Please act accordingly.—G. Hogben." The question of payment for this wreath did not enter into my mind at the time ; I should have been quite willing to pay for my share of the cost if necessary. Sir E. O. Gibbes sent the following telegram to Mr, Archey, Manager, Industrial School, Burnham : — " Mr. Hogben will represent the Department at Mr. Walker's funeral. Will you please have suitable wreath ready for Mr. Hogben in Christchurch ? " It was left to Mr. Archey to have the wreath made at the School if there were suitable flowers available, or to procure one in Christchurch. He followed the latter course, and the item £116s. 6d. in last year's " Contingencies " included payment to Messrs. Nairn and Son for wreath, and 6s. 6d. for cab-fare and meals for Mr. Archey while arranging for the wreath and other details in connection with the funeral. After attending the funeral I returned to Dunedin, and did not reach Wellington for some weeks afterwards, until payment had been made for the wreath. The Audit appears to have seen nothing unreasonable in the payment. The wreath was considered to be an official wreath from the Department. Apart altogether from this, I took with me a private wreath, for which I paid myself. The wreath charged to " Contingencies " was not ordered by any Minister. I have no reason to believe that any Minister was aware of its being obtained, and I doubt whether there was any opportunity for consulting a Minister at the time. No Ministerial authority was obtained for the payment in question. G. Hogben.

142 H. (Telegram.) Dunedin, Ist August, 1905. So far as this journal and self are concerned, no demand to pay up ever received by me or paper. Birthday message paid for in usual course after reference matter Postmaster-General as to treatment it required as press message according to my view. Are at liberty to use this as you please. Mark Cohen. Right Hon. Premier, Wellington.

(Telegram.) Dunedin, Ist August, 1905. The statement made in the House on Friday night that I had been asked to make payment for message re Premier's Wellington birthday speech is incorrect. At no time has any payment been demanded from me, nor had I been communicated with on matter in any form. Right Hon. the Premier, Wellington. Albert Cohen.

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143 H. Office of Minister in Charge Department of Tourist and Health Resorts, Wellington, 29th July, 1905. Memo, for Acting-Superintendent Department of Tourist and Health Resorts. Please inform me, — (1.) What date Mr. Keenan was transferred from the Postal Department to the Industries and Commerce Department. (2.) Under what circumstances was he transferred from the Industries and Commerce Department to the Lands Department ? (3.) As a statement has been made in the House by Mr. Fisher that Mr. Keenan toured the colony while in the Industries and Commerce Department, please let me know if that this correct, or whether he was absent from headquarters at any time, and, if so, what were the circumstances ? Also state at the same time the total travelling-allowance he received. J. G. Ward.

Department of Tourist and Health Resorts, Wellington, Ist August, 1905. The Hon. the Minister for Tourist and Health Resorts. Cadet B. A. Keenan. Mr. Keenan was transferred from the Postal Department to the Industries and Commerce Department on the 21st April, 1901, on the recommendation of Mr. Donne. He left the Industries and Commerce Department on the 18th February, 1902, for the purpose of exchanging places with an officer of the Lands Department at Auckland, by mutual consent, the Lands officer desiring to get to Wellington for health purposes. Mr. Keenan, while in the Industries and Commerce Department, was only absent from Wellington on two occasions—namely, 26th April to Bth May and 14th to 30th May, 1902—0n both of which occasions he was travelling with Mr. Donne as typist in connection with Royal visit arrangements. , The total travelling-allowance paid him during the periods of absence was £18 4s. 2d. C. R. C. Robieson, Acting-Superintendent.

General Post Office, Wellington, Ist August, 1905. The Hon. the Postmaster-General. Mr. Keenan was appointed as cadet in this office in accordance with the regulations at the minimum salary of £40 per annum plus £26 a year lodging-allowance. His home was in Auckland, and his appointment was at Wellington. Mr. Keenan was not retransferred to this Department from the Tourist Department. After his transfer this Department knew nothing of his whereabouts. ™ • Gray.

Office of the Postmaster-General, Wellington, 29th July, 1905. Memorandum for W. Gray, Esq. , With further reference to the statement made by Mr. Fisher, M.H.H., m the House, that Mr. Keenan was transferred from the Postal Department to the Tourist Department, and back to the Post Office and then to the Lands Department, please say whether Keenan was at any time so transferred or employed in the Post Office after he left it to join the Industries and Commerce Department on the first occasion. As you have already stated that he was properly appointed, I shall be glad if you will now inform me what salary he received upon his appointment, and whether such salary was in accordance with the regulations, or if any exception was made in his case. J - G ' Wabd -

144 H. Prime Minister's Office, Wellington, 3rd August, 1905. Memorandum for the Secretary to the Treasury. I desire to make inquiries, and have complete search made, as to whether a voucher for payment to Captain Seddop of between £70 and £80, for the organization of Defence Stores, has been made, and passed through the Treasury. R- J- Seddon.

The Treasury, New Zealand, Wellington, 3rd August, 1905. Memorandum for Right Hon. the Premier, Wellington. In reply to your memorandum of this day's date, I have to report that a complete search has been made in the Treasury books, and there is no record of a payment to Captain Seddon of between £70 and £80 for the organization of Defence Stores as having been made and passed through the Treasury, or of any other sum for the service mentioned above. R. J. Collins, Assistant Secretary to the Treasury. 2—H. 33.

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145 H. Prime Minister's Office, Wellington, 3rd August, 1905. Memorandum for the Secretary to the Treasury. It haying been stated that a voucher went through the Treasury, with Ministers' names on the face of it, in payment for a wreath for the late Hon. Mr. Walker's funeral, I desire complete search to be made, and to be informed if such voucher passed through the Treasury as a payment of public moneys to any claimant. r j. Seddon

The Treasury, Wellington, 3rd August, 1905. Memorandum for the Right Hon. the Premier, Wellington. In reply to your memorandum of even date, I have to report that a thorough search has been made in the Treasury book, and can find no trace of any voucher as having passed through the Treasury as a payment out of public moneys for a wreath for the late Hon. Mr. Walker's funeral with Ministers' names on the face of it. E. J. Collins, Assistant Secretary to the Treasury.

146 H. Prime Minister's Office, Wellington, 3rd August, 1905. Memorandum for the Acting Under-Secretary for Defence. I desire you to make inquiries and have complete search made as to whether a voucher for payment to Captain Seddon of between £70 and £80 for the organization of Defence Stores has been made and passed through the Treasury. R. j. Seddon.

Defence Office, Wellington, 3rd August, 1905. Memorandum for the Hon. Defence Minister. In reply to your memorandum of to-day, I beg to state a careful search of Defence and all Treasury books has been made, and no trace of receipt of claim, nor payment to Captain Seddon of any sum whatever, for the organization of Defence Stores can be found. T. F. Grey, For Under-Secretary for Defence. Approximate Cost of Paper.— Preparation, not given ; printing (2,000 copies), £i 12s.

By Authority : John Mackay, Government Printer, Wellington.—l9os. Price (id.]