PAKEHA AND MAORI: A NARRATIVE OF THE PREMIER'S TRIP THROUGH THE NATIVE DISTRICTS OF THE NORTH ISLAND.

Appendix to the Journals of the House of Representatives, 1895 Session I, G-01

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1895. NEW ZEALAND.

PAKEHA AND MAORI: A NARRATIVE OF THE PREMIER'S TRIP THROUGH THE NATIVE DISTRICTS OF THE NORTH ISLAND.

Laid on the Table by the Hon. Mr Seddon, with Leave of the House.

INTRODUCTION. Although the Native question does not occupy such a prominent part in New Zealand politics as it did a few years back, it still is a subject of interest to all thinking men who desire to see such a state of affairs brought about as shall draw the European and Maori races into a closer union. "Until recently the " Maori difficulty," as it was termed, was regarded with indifference by the majority of the Southern members of Parliament, and on occasions when Native legislation and Native affairs were discussed in the House the Middle Island representatives took little interest therein. In the South Island, the sparse Native population and the pacific character of the people gave the settlers an idea that the troubles in the North had been greatly exaggerated, and consequently they displayed a degree of apathy concerning Maori affairs which, had they made themselves better informed on the subject, would not have been the case. There were, it is true, a minority of settlers in the South who were posted up.in the Native question, and whose sympathies were with their Northern brethren who were struggling to hold their own against some of the more turbulent tribes who took up arms to resist the advance of European civilisation. Those, however, were only a handful o£ the inhabitants of the Middle Island, and it is an undoubted fact that the bulk of the Southern people, especially in the old provincial days, took little interest in the Northern troubles. The prudent though firm policy which has been pursued towards the Natives during the past few years has accomplished much in the direction of settlement, but much more remains to be done before the vast tracts of Native-owned land which are at present lying waste can be properly utilised for the benefit of both races. New Zealand has with truth been called the "Wonderland of the Pacific," and travellers from all parts of the earth have made themselves acquainted with the magnificent scenery of the colony The sights and sounds of beauty which produce a rapt and refined enjoyment are nowhere to be met with in such marvellous variety as in New Zealand, and they form some of the colony's most valuable assets. If Wordsworth had travelled through our islands he could, with his great power of perceiving and apprehending the beauties of nature, have aptly applied his well-known lines to numbers of our scenes :-— The sounding cataract Haunted me like a passion : the tall rook, The mountain, and the deep and gloomy wood, Their colours and their forms, were to me An appetite ; a feeling and a love That had no need of a remoter charm By thought supplied. While, however, too much stress cannot be laid on what a theatrical manager would term our ."scenic effects," it must be acknowledged that the Maori people themselves are calculated to inspireas much interest in the philosophic mind as the scenery of their country does in the poetic mind. They are, without doubt, one of the most remarkable races on this side of the equator, and not only "globe-trotters" but colonists themselves have paid too little attention to the study of their character. A people who in times past sailed from distant seas in their rude canoes and made their way over the stormy ocean, braving difficulties and dangers in order to plant themselves on the shores of New Zealand, are not a race to be despised. Although but a remnant of a once great nation of poets and warriors, for such they really were, they are still a " power in the land," and all true colonists are only too anxious to treat them with justice. In years past they proved I—G 1.

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themselves " worthy of British steel," and now they are proving themselves worthy of our confidence. There is no doubt that our statesmen have an earnest desire to deal fairly with them, and to bring about still more fraternal relations between the two races. The best method to accomplish this desirable object is to push civilisation and settlement into the large areas of fine country which only await proper development at the hands of industrious yeomen. If the Legislature adopt this course, it goes without saying that strict justice and equity will be the standard which will guide them. On this head a few remarks by an able political writer may be to the point. " What is that which government is meant to secure ? " he asks , and the reply is, " Primarily and supremely the aim of government is justice. In proportion as it diverges from this aim does government become tyranny, and public opinion must be inspired by the sense of justice, and must aim at securing justice, else it too becomes tyrannous, and becomes so in proportion as it fails to be inspired by this sentiment, and directed to the securing of this result." In the opinion of many thoughtful men the Maori character, with its many sterling traits, has not been sufficiently understood by our lawmakers. The Native mind has changed from time to time, and in different tribes opinions vary considerably, and this has led to a great deal of misunderstanding between the races. For years the Natives have taken up a negative position. They have been sullen, or, as named in their Native language, they have been pouri —discontented with their lot, labouring under supposed grievances. Powerless to openly resist the authorities, occasionally stopping surveys, pulling up survey-pegs, &c, to show their resentment of the encroachment of civilisation. Unable and. even unwilling to meet the Government in Wellington, not comprehending how to bring their wishes before Parliament, they simply retired to their Native fastnesses, living in almost destitution. The remnants of a noble race, richly endowed in lands, and yet this wealth was of no benefit to them. The course adopted by them, whilst not benefiting them, retarded settlement, and seriously militated against the prosperity of the North Island. The Natives could not come to the Government—why not deal with them as Europeans are dealt with ? Ministers go from centre to centre so as to keep touch with the pakehas and to explain social and political questions, the settlement of the land, and the labour problems. Why not deal with the Maoris in the same way ? This thought induced the Premier to undertake a fatiguing journey, perilous in its incidence—mountains, rivers, and lakes having to be negotiated—and, by meeting the Natives in their haunts, making himself thoroughly acquainted with all the "ins and outs " of the Native question. That many of the chiefs are adepts in diplomatic duelling goes without saying , and the manner in which soma of them subjected the Premier to a rigid examination in the political catechism afforded ample proof that, on the point of intelligence, the Maori is quite equal to the pakeha. Whilst doing their utmost to "corner" him, they at the same time mingled dignity with shrewdness, thus affording a lesson in courtesy and good manners to numbers of politicians who imagine themselves to be— . Heirs of all the ages in the foremost files of time. His recent trip has given him a thorough insight into the condition of the Maori people, and has, no doubt, enabled him to form an intelligent opinion as to the best course to adopt in order to secure the prosperity of both them and the Europeans. The words of the Tuhoe chief show the visit was well timed, and are worth quoting. Addressing the Premier, he said, " You are our parent, if you have come for our good, you are welcome, if you 'come to destroy, let it be done quickly You are welcome. We are only the remnant of a great people, better we should go quickly than to perish slowly as we are doing. We have not wished to do wrong. We have tried to preserve our people. We have endeavoured to retain our lands, for land is our life. We are not dealing with an ordinary savage race, but with a people who, even in their wildest state, possess many attributes which cannot fail to command our respect and esteem. If members of Parliament could only spare the time to take a trip through the Urewera and King-country they would learn much that could not fail to interest and instruct them; for, to quote Wordsworth again,— For the instructed, time will come When they shall meet no object but will teach Some acceptable lesson to their minds Of human suffering, or of human joy. So shall they learn, while all things speak of man, Their duties from all forms ; and general laws And local accidents shall tend alike To rouse, to urge, and, with the will, confer The ability to spread the blessings wide Of true philanthropy. March, 1894.

THE TEIP. Gilbert tells us that " A policeman's lot is not a happy one." And what about a Premier's existence ? It is only those who have been in political power who can appreciate the troubles and difficulties which a Minister of the Crown has to contend with. All sorts and conditions of men— yes, and women —have their grievances , and a man requires the "patience of Job " to satisfy a tithe of the requirements of interviewers —their name is legion. Verily, many persons prefer their claims upon the Government of the day. People of all shades of political colour labour under the hallucination that the sole business of the Government is to provide for their wants. When the Premier (Hon. E. J. Seddon), the Hon J. Carroll, with their Private Secretary and special correspondent, started on their tour through the Native districts of the North Island, it was only to be expected that they would be met with deputations in all the business centres en route. But it was not only in the big centres, but also in the small ones, that the Premier and party were welcomed.

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According to the special reporter of the New Zealand Mail, — " There were crowds of people at all the wayside stations between Palmerston and Mangaonoho on the lookout for an interview. " At Halcombe, or thereabouts, the Crown Lands Commissioner of Wellington, Mr Baker, cropped up. He had. heard that Mr Seddon had arranged to proceed from Pipiriki by canoe to Taumarunui, and he thought it but right to let him know it would be expedient to make the trip overland rather than by the river, as the journey by this latter route was beset with difficulties, and would occupy some four or five days. Mr Baker was thanked for his information and went on his way " Mangaonoho, the present terminus of the railway (and likely to remain so for some years to come), was reached at half-past nine, and a 'bus of rather primitive design, with four horses harnessed to it, was in waiting to convey the party to Ohingaiti. It was a moonless night, but by the fitful gleam of the stars the visitors were able to dimly discern the lay of the country—the Eangitikei Eiver far down below the serpentine curves of the road, further on the Makohine Gorge (where a viaduct 240 ft. high is to be constructed), and hard by it the landslip which engulphed a whare with its occupants not long since. Ohingaiti was reached at ten o'clock, and the travellers found at host Meehan's hotel all the comforts that might be expected even in a metropolitan hostelry " Ohingaiti has garnered up quite a collection of good stories, derived from its prelicensing days, when sly-grog selling was safe. Take a sample lot: An enterprising " shebeenist " sent away for a case of whiskey, but the trouble was how to get it to the settlement without exciting suspicion, Mother-wit came to his rescue, and helped him over the stile. At the railway-station where he was to take delivery he noticed a case containing Government stores for Ohingaiti, and bearing the Public Works Office label. In a trice the label was shifted from the case of stores to the case of whiskey, and upon a Government trolly in care of Government employes the case of whiskey was unsuspectingly borne into the district. Once there, however, it mysteriously disappeared; but the shebeen drove a roaring trade for the next few days. "In another instance the sly-grog seller received the "straight tip" that the police were planning a raid. There was a spring close by, and into it eighteen bottles of whiskey were quietly stowed away This accounts for the streak of luck which befel a couple of teamsters next morning. They took a bucket to the spring to water their horses, the bucket collided with one of the bottles, and the teamster, plungingin his hand, dragged forth a bottle of Walker's " Kilmarnock," In fact, he did not stop until he fished out eighteen bottles. For about a week fast and furious was the pace on the road to Moawhango, and the news spread far and wide how well teamsters So-and-so had done out of their contract, and how generously they had stood drinks of whiskey for all and sundry whom they met." The special correspondent also tells several other good stories relating to the trip. There is a place rejoicing in the euphonious name of Moawhango. The Natives here desired that it should be proclaimed a township, but the greatest wish of their hearts was that the Government should appoint a policeman to superintend the morals of the place. In many of our European communities the policeman is voted a bore and a nuisance, for, to quote Gilbert again, he interferes with the "enterprising burglar" when he "goes a-burgling", but the Maoris have a better sense of the fitness of things, and according to our special reporter the Premier made the following remarks anent the appointment of a constable : — " Then they wanted a policeman. But before the' policeman came there must be a policestation and a lock-up, and the Government had neither land in the place nor a house in which to put the policeman. He could not be put into a tent, and if the prisoners were put into a tent they would soon make tracks. Were they prepared to give the Government a piece of land upon which to put up a station, and were they disposed to contribute towards the expense of putting it up ? Or should he say that if they gave the site the Government would put up the station ? They could consider this matter, and let him have their answer when they came to a decision. At present he believed there was a district constable. However, if they had a place for the policeman: and a lockup for the prisoners he would send the policeman along next week. They could hardly expect their prisoners to behave as did the prisoners in the early days of Dunedin. Those prisoners, it is alleged, used to be regularly liberated each morning to amuse themselves as they pleased all day. A bell rang in the evening to let them know that the gaol was going to be locked up for the night, Then there would be great commotion amongst the prisoners. They would say to one another, ' There goes the bell, if we don't hurry up we shall be locked out for the night.' (Laughter amongst the Natives.)" Civilisation goes "marching on," and the swarthy inhabitants of Moawhango require a telephone. The Maoris are essentially a business people, and this fact seems very contradictory to their poetic character, for the business man and the poet seldom run together. Marcus Clarke was not much of a poet, but he was a literary genius, and a few remarks of his on "business men" may not be out of place " They are the cream of the social bowl—in their own estimation ; the stone pillars which, according to the Arabic legend, hold the earth up. There never was, or can be, anything to equal them. You may be the best fellow in the world, the sole supporter of an aged mother, and the protector of a whole boarding-school full of orphan sisters , you may work like a horse, and give all your goods to feed the poor, but if you are not a business man you are sounding brass or a tinkling cymbal. To be a business man is a special gift, a sort of inherent nature, like a cast in the eye. If you are a business man you will succeed in business—that is to say, you will be a good husband, a good father, a conscientious Christian, always vote with the Government, and when you die will go straight to heaven. If you are a business man people will shout for you, the papers will write you up, and your friends will give you prayer-books with gilt edges." " Mr. Seddon went on to say he was surprised to find that the Natives wanted the telephone brought to Moawhango. He looked upon this request as having been inspired by the Europeans.

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In this case they were getting the Natives to pull the chestnuts out of the fire for them. When the land question was settled, and when, as a consequence, they had a large population settled in the district, it would be time enough to talk of the telephone and the telegraph. " Another luxury that was asked for was a hotel, Now, this request spoilt everything else on the list. (Laughter.) He was surprised that in a place like that, so far from Hunterville, they could have got to know that such a thing as a hotel existed. (More laughter.) In fact he had thought waipiro could never have been brought so far inland. (Eenewed laughter.) It was really strange that in the absence of a bridge across the river any one would take the trouble to cart up waipiro. (Great laughter When the Rev Mr Isitt, the temperance lecturer, read in the paper that the Natives were requesting the Government to establish a special licensing district among them he would not be surprised to hear that he would shortly visit Moawhango. In fact he (Mr. Seddon) would recommend him to come at onee —the sooner the better, so that he might show them that what they really wanted was a temperance lecturer to teach them to drink cold water. He himself would much prefer that there never should be a publichouse in the district. " The Premier went on to point the moral, and adorn it with a tale. Once upon a time there was a miners' camp on the West Coast where the waipiro had run out. The miners took to drinking Painkiller, and soon finished this. As a last resort one of them laid siege to Jacob's Oil, and this finished him. At this there was great laughter from the Maoris, and they all directed their gaze upon one of their number, who sheepishly hung his head. It appeared that the Premier had scored off a Native sly-grog seller without knowing it. This Native's name was Jacob, and his compatriots took the allusion to the deadly properties of St. Jacob's Oil to apply to Jacob's whiskey " That the Maoris were much happier in their primitive state must be apparent to every thoughtful observer The scientific inventions of the age are very well in their way, but, to one who thinks at all, Max Adeler's observation on the happiest way to live must carry weight "It has always seemed to me that village life is the happiest and most comfortable, and that the busy city man who would establish his home where he can have repose without inconvenience and discomfort should place it amid the trees and flowers and by the grassy highway of some pretty hamlet, where the noise of the world's greater commerce never comes, and where isolation and companionship are both possible without an effort. Such a home, planted judiciously in a half-acre, where children can romp and play, and where one can cultivate a few flowers and vegetables, mingling the sentimental heliotrope with the practical cabbage, and the ornamental verbena with the useful onion, may be made an earthly paradise." Settlement of the Country. The Premier made an important announcement to the Natives of Moawhango respecting the settlement of Native lands. " He (the Premier) desired to point out that the time had now arrived when settlement must no longer be retarded. The land could not be allowed to lie unproductive, for the European population was increasing, and every day longer this state of things was allowed to continue the worse it would be for the Natives. One section of the Natives wanted to have their lands subdivided and partitioned off so that they might individually and single-handed deal with them. Now, in cases where the subdivisions were small, and hundreds of Natives to put into one certificate, very little benefit resulted to the Native owners. The costs incidental to subdivision ate up the value of the land. Years ago the Natives used to engage in tribal conflicts, but now, instead of fighting each other in battle, they went into Court and fought over their claims to the land. They were no better off by doing so, litigation impoverished them, and a Maori, metaphorically speaking, might as well be killed almost as left without land or means. If this sort of thing went on it would happen by-and-by that all their land would be eaten up by the lawyers, the Native agents, and the expenses of Courts. (Laughter.) Perhaps the reason why they were asking for a policeman was in order that he should lock up the lawyers, Native agents, and pakeha-Maoris who came into the place. (More laughter.) If so, there was some solid ground for their request. Now, his visit to the Native settlements was for the purpose of ascertaining the Native mind on the subject of their lands, and he wished the Natives to speak to him freely and without reservation, as one friend would to another Did they wish for subdivision of their lands, or did they desire to hand it to the Government through trustees in whom they had confidence—men who would be empowered to deal directly ■with the Government, and who would safeguard Native interests ? There were a large number of people in the colony who said that when the land was held under Native custom and was not occupied the Government should proclaim it as Crown land, and pay over the proceeds to the Native owners. If the Natives would fight and quarrel over the proceeds, that was their misfortune , any way, whilst they were so doing settlement would not be stopped. He did not consider that this would be a fair thing. When the Natives were all-powerful they treated the pakehas as friends. Now that the pakehas were all-powerful it behoved them to return the kindness of the Natives and to deal fairly with them. This was why he said that the longer they delayed coming to some definite arrangement with the Government, and having a more simple and rapid way of dealing with their lands, the worse it would be for them. The process, he thought, was simple. First of all they needed to arrange amongst themselves how much land they were prepared to dispose of. Then it would be -the duty of the Government to see, in arriving at the details, that the Natives were provided with ample reserves for their support. Either this, or the Government should issue debentures in payment for the land, these debentures to bear interest and to be non-transferable, so that the Natives xould not be pauperised. The interest accruing from these debentures would be equal to an annuity for themselves and their children for all time. Now, a short time ago the Government paid large sums of money to some of the Natives in this district for their lands. He now ascertained that from these Natives both lands and money were gone. That was not good either for the Natives or for the

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colony Better never to have had land at all. It was the intention of the Government to introduce important Native legislation next session, and in preparing that legislation he wanted to be fortified with an expression of opinion direct from the Natives themselves, so that he could assure the country what the Native mind was. The time had come when this question must be dealt with fairly and, at the same time, firmly The Government could no longer allow millions of acres of land to remain in a state of nature while thousands of people were wanting land to settle upon and cultivate. These unutilised lands the Government were prepared to deal fairly for. A law had already been passed to empower the Government to purchase lands from the Europeans for the purposes of settlement. They were going to propose next session, as they did last session, that they should have power given them to take land from the Europeans for settlement purposes. That was where land was being held in large areas and kept in a state of nature, with only a few sheep running upon it. This was the class of land they required for settlement, and they would take it whether or not the owners liked. If Parliament passed such a law applying to European land, they were not likely to allow the Natives to keep millions of acres locked up and unused. There must be equality in their legislation. In the case of European land, its value was fairly assessed, and the price thus ascertained was paid by the Government. The same treatment would be meted out to the Natives. The Natives had now a Government in power who were friendly-disposed towards them, and who desired to be just with them. At the same time he wished to assure them there was no going back —that once having put their hands to the plough the Government were going through with this question. The Premier concluded by urging the Natives to speak their minds freely and frankly. " The Natives' Beply. " Ihakara te Eango, an old and influential chief, over seventy years of age, was the first to speak. He welcomed the Premier, briefly referred to the matters that had been brought forward, and expressed the. hope that Europeans and Maoris would be one in all things. " Hiraka te Eango (son of Ihakara, and leader of the progressive party among these Natives) asked specially for an administrative committee to deal with the lands, and negotiate with the Government on the tribe's behalf. Between now and next session they would meet and consider whether there was a necessity for bringing any other matters under the notice of the Government. Hiraka then referred to the Motukawa subdivision, the position of which he said was peculiar, as a portion of it had been included in Eangipo-Waiu, a block purchased by the Government. This overlap delayed further partition. He therefore asked that the Government should legislate, if necessary, to rectify this trouble. He also asked if the portion of the Awarua Block acquired by the Government could not be partitioned off. : "Mr Seddon This has been arranged for, and we wish to know where it would be most convenient for the Court to sit. " Hiraka ■ Utiku and I have agreed that here will be the most convenient place. " Mr. Seddon The Judge now sitting here could not act, as he had purchased the shares claimed by the Government, but the case will be taken immediately " Hiraka No. 2, No. 3, No. 3a, No. 3b, No. 4, and No. 4a might be heard at the same time. We want this Court to take up the work of that partition as soon as Oruamatua is concluded. He then proceeded to say that, with regard to the school, a census of the children had been taken, and three acres had been selected for school-buildings. As to the necessity for a policeman, they lived in an isolated part of the country, which was frequently visited by the scum of European society. They had agreed to give a portion of land for the station. "Mr Seddon: Put that in writing, and a surveyor will be sent to lay off the site. " Mr. Carroll It has pleased me that the Premier has come personally to see you. It was my wish he should meet you face to face, and not hear your grievances second-hand. We have heard them, and they will receive our attention. If there are other matters you wish attended to, send your word to us. Do not delay, or be frightened to come forward. " Sly-grog Selling " Hiraka said he did not wish the Premier to depart with the idea that they wanted a hote* established in the district in order that they might get drink. It was for quite a different reasonThey could not shut their eyes to the fact that grog was imported clandestinely into the district) and they wished to impress the Government with the fact. It was not desirable that should exist in any district, but perhaps the lesser evil in this particular case was that it should be under control. " The Premier said he was very glad to hear this expression of opinion. Probably if the policeman were sent up he might be able to stop these evil doings. At any rate, one of these slygrog sellers was now in gaol, where he could neither sell nor drink grog. (Laughter.) His ears were open, and he had heard that the Natives themselves were worse than the Europeans in this evil practice. He hoped that was untrue. He was a good judge of character, and from the levity displayed when he referred to the liquor question he came to the conclusion that there were some of these practisers of evil deeds present. (More laughter.) As the Natives wanted a policeman, it would be rather peculiar if his first duty were to lock some of them up. He hoped they would cast their bottles and cases of whiskey into the river. " The meeting then closed. "We met at Moawhango the Judge of the Native Land Court sitting there (Mr. Butler), and Mr A. L. D Eraser, Native Agent. The Court has been sitting there since the middle of January, and has still some six weeks' work ahead of it. The Natives of the district appear to be well off in live-stock, and to be amply dowered with land. They own about a hundred thousand sheep and some four thousand horses. In fact, horses are so plentiful throughout this part that large numbers of them are running quite wild, and last year drafts

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of them were taken to some of the European settlements and sold at prices ranging from ss. upwards. Two evils affect these Natives, and both of them were referred to by Hiraka te Eango in his reply to the Premier's address. One is the Native love for waipiro, and the other is the contaminating influence of the low-caste Europeans who infest all these Native districts right through to Pipiriki. As to the first evil, we were assured that nearly every second Native is concerned, either directly or indirectly, in dispensing waipiro. The liquor is brought up from European settlements, and, after being adulterated with methylated spirit, is retailed to customers of both races. The special reporter observes "We left Moawhango at 10.20 a.m. yesterday, and arrived at Karioi (29 miles) at 3in the afternoon. Mr McDonald (manager for Mr Studholme) hospitably entertained the whole party We set out this morning for Pipiriki (33 miles), and to-morrow go on to Taumarunui, through the Waimarino country, the river route having been abandoned. It was represented to the Premier that it would take five days to pole up the river to Taumarunui. So far, Captain Edwin has been singularly kind to us. We have every promise of lovely weather to-day Karioi is worth some notice, but I must leave it to my next." " Kaeioi. " The first stage of our journey to' Karioi was on the backward track—that is to say, we had to return along our route of the previous day as far as the point from which the road to Taupo diverges from that to Karioi. " The next five miles of our road was over broken country (the block being the Motukawa) with a gradual ascent until, on rising from the basin of the Moawhango, we had attained an elevation of 2,600 ft. above the sea-level. We were keeping close company with the Central Eailway route, which lay at a distance of a couple of miles or so to our left. Once out of the Moawhango basin, with its clumps of bush and green little hummocks, the road gradually descended for three miles. Eight miles from the Moawhango basin we enter upon a tract of level country which lies at an altitude of 400 ft. above Karioi. At Turangarere, where Mr C. Mitchell (a squatter on Maori land) has his woolshed and residence, we part company with Mr Batley, his sister, and two of their lady friends, who had so far accompanied us. " Up to this point all the way from Ohingaiti the land had been of excellent quality, so much so that Mr Carroll had been strongly impressed with it. "At a distance of fourteen miles from the Moawhango basin we have risen to a height of 2,800 ft. above the sea-level, and from this point we obtain our first glimpse of Buapehu, mantled in snow For the next forty-eight hours it remains within the line of vision. "Ten miles from Karioi the road from that place to Taupo diverges to our right. We are traversing a silent uninteresting country, covered with a light growth of native grass, studded at intervals with boulders of limestone. Bush shuts in the distant horizon on either side. The roadcuttings display the all-pervading pumice at a depth of a few inches beneath the surface. The hilltops and ridges show soil of a better quality Still, there is nothing arid or dreary in the aspect of the landscape. The land, poor as it is, all carries sheep. But throughout the first twenty miles of the Murimotu country there is not a single habitation. Mr Studholme holds a lease from the Natives of two blocks of land, comprising between them 240,000 acres, upon which he has depastured eighty thousand sheep, whose wool was being carted to Hunterville when we passed through the Awarua Block. Mr. Studholme has an excellent manager in Mr. McDonald, whose headquarters are at Karioi, where he has lived for the past twenty years. We were very hospitably entertained by Mr McDonald that night. " We set out from Karioi at 9 a.m. on Saturday with a benediction from Euapehu in the form of a shower. It did not last long, however, and we had glorious weather for the greater part of our day's journey Two miles from Karioi we pass by the Native kainga of Waione, enter the bush, and note a marked improvement in the soil. From this point there is an unbroken forest all the way to Mount Egmont. " Just beyond Waione we come across the last stretch of road which is in course of formation by the co-operative contractor One man of a superior stamp we saw at work, and were told that he was a Dublin University man. He possessed Molesworth's Pocketbook and Chambers's Logarithms, and with their help he was accustomed to work out his quantities. Two miles further on we are pointed out a tract of land that is to become a small-farm settlement. Fifty sections had been taken up under the lease-in-perpetuity system about a year ago, but only two settlers have taken up residence on their land. " Five miles still further on, nine miles from Karioi, we reach Ohakune, a Government reserve. This clearing was made three years ago. Several buildings have been erected upon it. Six more miles of travel and we arrive at a small Maori kainga called Toanui, the entire population of which-—three generations of one family—come out and offer a hearty welcome. The principal man is Winiata, and, finding he has two Ministers before him, he acts on the motto ' Garpe diem. He is concerned for the preservation of the graves of the ancestors of his hapu, who lie buried on various hill-tops on the Waimarino Block, now belonging to the Government. Will the Premier reserve these sacred places ? " Mr. Seddon could not give any definite pledge on the subject. He would consult the Minister of Lands, and see what Mr Baker, Commissioner of Crown Lands, had to say He thought the simplest plan would be to exhume the bones interred in these various hill-tops, and bury them in the new cemeteries, where a stone might be raised to rescue from oblivion the names of those interred beneath. He felt pleased at finding amongst the Maoris such a reverential feeling for their dead. " A short distance further on we chanced upon a free selector and his family, who had arrived from Sandon the previous day and pitched their tent by the hillside. The wife and mother

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advanced to our trap and asked if she had the honour of addressing the Premier Eeceiving an affirmative answer she wished to know if it were true that the first woman to settle upon any block received a bonus of seven acres of land, as she was the pioneer woman upon this block—the Waimarino. Mr Seddon replied that there was no such regulation. " Baetihi. "We were now in the midst of a splendid forest of mixed bush, about the best of the kind, we are told, that one can find in the North Island. Three miles further on, or fifteen miles from Karioi, we reach the site of the township of Baetihi, of which a good deal is likely to be heard in the future. It lies in the heart of the bush, in the centre of a fine level block of Crown land, 100,000 acres in area, and at the proposed junction of the Wanganui Eoad with the road to Auckland via Okura. Of the 100,000 acres, 70,000 have already been taken up in small-farm sections. "Pour miles beyond Baetihi we arrive at Mangaetoroa, a Government school reserve, and notable for being the first clearing made in this part of the country The land, which has been cleared, is down in grass, and men are at work constructing a tunnel to carry off the waters of the Mangaetoroa. For loveliness of forest scenery and varied and picturesque beauty it would be difficult to match the last fourteen miles of the road towards Pipiriki. At no distant date this is bound to be a favourite route of travel for tourists , the wonder is more has not been heard of it before this. At the summit of the Waipuna Hill one instinctively reins in his steed to feast the eyes upon the charming panorama that here unfolds itself, one of its leading features being the distinct though distant outlines of Buapehu, Ngauruhoe, and Tongariro, which close in the southeastern side of the horizon. "Nine miles from Pipiriki we pass over the newly-completed Mangoihe Bridge, which has a span of 80ft. over a deep gorge. Late in the afternoon from the crest of a hill we come in sight of the "Wanganui Biver, and down the pretty rapid descent we canter into Pipiriki amidst the welcomes of the Natives. " Up the Wanganui Biver " The Premier consented to the request of Topia to visit on Sunday the Native settlement of Tieke, thirteen miles up the river. The compact was made, and at 9 a.m. on Sunday we were all aboard a big canoe, 78ft. long, and pushing out into the stream. There were twenty-eight of us, ten Europeans and the rest Maoris. Under the stimulus of the steady beat of sixteen paddles the canoe swept rapidly up the stream. A fuglemaii in the bow encouraged the paddlers to their best exertions by stirring cries delivered in a sonorous voice, to which responses were made from time to time with a fierce and startling suddenness. Very soon we encountered the rapids, and we had reason to admire the dexterity with which our crew handled their iron-tipped manuka poles. With rhythmic regularity they lifted the poles, and with simultaneous movement they plunged them into the water, where they grated harshly upon the stony bottom of the river, while the canoe shot forward through the water that leaped, boiled, and surged on either side. The Europeans twice disembarked while the canoe with great skill was propelled through the madly-leaping waves, but all the other rapids were passed without stoppage or difficulty " Entrancing was the kaleidoscopic picture that unfolded itself under our eyes at every turn in the serpentine course of the river. On either side rose a lofty and perpendicular bank of rock, clad from foot to summit with dense foliage resplendent with tree-ferns and other graceful specimens of native shrubbery Sometimes a rocky grotto or 'cave arrested our gaze, sometimes a deep cleft or chasm streaked by a narrow ribbon of foaming water , anon a small creek, itself a dream of ideal virgin beauty, and occasionally a Native whare, to which our attention was attracted by the chant of welcome delivered in shrill and long-sustained notes by some Native woman. The fugleman was relieved from time to time, Topia himself taking a turn at the vocal exercise, and also bearing a hand at intervals with the paddles. About noon one of the manuka poles was raised aloft in the prow, with two handkerchiefs fluttering from it, one of crimson and the other of orange. A little further on we caught sight of a light canoe, which was shooting along far ahead to apprise the villagers of our approach. With shouts of joy our paddlers bent all their energies to the task of overtaking the smaller craft, but after a spurt of a quarter of an hour, during which the smaller canoe more than held its own, our men recognised that the struggle was hopeless, and therefore slackened their stroke. " A few minutes before 1 o'clock a turn of the river brought Tieke into view, perched upon a small grassy promontory The Natives there had caught sight of us as soon as, if not sooner than, we perceived the settlement, for repeated discharges of firearms warned us that they were assembled, and had already begun to announce the welcome that awaited us. As we drew nearer we saw them rushing down helter-skelter—men, women, and children —to the waterside, where they began their song and dance of welcome, accompanied by much gesticulation, the women especially commanding notice by reason of their demonstrativeness and the garlands of willow which they had entwined in their hair or waved in their hands. "A Native Meeting. " The party having landed, Topia led the Premier and his party to the handsome whare puni, where, in accordance with formal Maori usage, the visitors were to await the ceremonious welcome that is given on all such occasions. The women were busy with the scraping of potatoes, the preparation of pork, and the ' copper Maoris in readiness for the midday meal. Gradually the people sat down in groups in front of their whares, and eventually an aged chief, bearing a manuka pole in his hand, advanced to the centre of the inarae, and, facing the luhare puni, delivered in a clearlypitched voice his speech of welcome. It abounded in ' Haere mais, and was after the usual Maori style of flowery oratory, with abundant repetition of phrase.

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" Another aged chief, after a long pause, came forward and delivered himself after the like fashion. He was succeeded by a man in the prime of life, with a coloured handkerchief bound round his head and over one eye. In his hands he held an implement of peace —the familiar hairbroom—and as he ran up and down the marae brandishing this domestic weapon and delivering his speech in short passages, every time he came to a full stop in front of us he certainly cut a ludicrous figure. He was effusive in his speech of welcome. After this orator came the prophet of the village, Te Kerei, who was brief and oracular, as became his priestly role. " Topia and Mr. Carroll spoke in reply, Mr Carroll holding in his hands a lady's parasol, so that the badges displayed on both sides—broom and sunshade—were eminently peaceful in their significance. " Address by the Premier. " Finally the Premier spoke (interpreted by the Hon. Mr. Carroll) He said he could scarcely find words in which to express his pleasure at being there that day. This reception more than repaid him for the distance he had come with their respected chief Topia to meet them. He was determined that justice should be done to both races. The course adopted in the past had not been productive of good to the Maori race. He saw there that day only the remnant of a great people now fast passing away He was there in furtherance of a desire to avert that evil. Next session would be one of the most important as affecting the Maori race that had ever been held. It was the desire of the pakeha to preserve the great race that formerly held and owned this country In the early days, when the Maoris were as numerous as the ferns on the hillside, and the pakehas few and powerless, the Maoris stretched out the hand of fellowship to them. Now that the pakehas were as plentiful as the fern, it was their turn to reciprocate that friendship. This they would do in a practical way Hitherto the Natives had been parting with their lands in a manner which only tended to impoverish them. He was travelling through the country meeting the Natives face to face, so that they might open their minds to him, and so that they might freely state their wants and wishes. When he had ascertained their minds he would be able to decide what remedy to apply. The best way in which the Government could help them was in respect to their lands, so dealing with these that the Maori might be again placed in the proud position which he occupied when the pakeha first came to the colony He saw a great many little children, and he wished to observe that this rising generation must be cared for by the Government, because the pledge was solemnly given when the Treaty of Waitangi was signed that the Government would attend to the education of the Native children. If their parents allowed them to go to school and mix with the European children, both races would grow up in peace and harmony, both having a fair share of the soil upon which to live. If they asked that day for a school to be established in their midst he would do his best to accomplish that object for them. Ample land must be reserved for the use of the Natives. A plan might be devised whereby the Europeans could use the surplus lands of the Maoris, and the Maoris themselves and their children be protected -against want for all time. If he could take them up in a balloon and pass over the land between there and Hawera he could teach them by an object-lesson what good had been achieved already in this way. The returned confiscated lands had been leased for the Natives. Two years ago they received £7,000 in rentals from these lands, and last year these rentals had risen to £14,000. In conclusion, the Premier alluded to the presence in the Ministry of one of their own race (Mr. Carroll), and said that he himself accepted the position of Native Minister because he recognised the paramount importance of settling the Native question. At present in everything relating to Native matters the motto was ' Taihoal' —procrastination and delay prevailed everywhere. Both Natives and Europeans were like the lion enmeshed in the net, and he hoped to be the mouse that would liberate the lion from its toils. " Shortly after 3 o'clock the oratory came to an end, and Natives and Europeans addressed themselves with sharpened appetites to the very substantial and well-cooked meal of roast pork, boiled potatoes and kumeras, bread, biscuit, and tea. " When Pipiriki was regained, at 7 o'clock, every one admitted that this day was a day to be marked with a white stone in the calendar of our memories. That night at Pipiriki the Premier and the Hon. Mr Carroll discussed the question of establishing a township at Pipiriki and opening a school there for the education of European and Native children. The Natives expressed a strong desire to have this course adopted. Another important matter discussed the same evening was the obstruction on the Wanganui Eiver by the Natives. Both the Premier and the Hon. Mr. Carroll pointed out to those interested that the proper line to adopt would be to consult the Government, so that a reasonable understanding might be arrived at. The Natives were informed in very plain language that they must not take the law into their own hands, as the country would not tolerate such a line of procedure. " Next day we reached Ohakune from Pipiriki. Stayed there a night, picked up the Centralline route, and travelled through the Waimarino Block, and for the next three days were travelling from morn till eve on horseback, chiefly through forest. For that space of time we were practically dead to the outer world, and yet it was a pleasant time. For the first four miles our course lay through Bangitane Block, which has a total area of 2,000 acres. The lower end has been taken up in small grazing-runs by settlement associations. The grazing ground is all occupied, and a few of the association settlers are also on land. Then we enter the Waimarino Block proper, and never leave it again until we reach Taumarunui. The portions of this block assigned to the associations from Marton, Bulls, and Wanganui are already settled. The land selected by other associations is now being surveyed. " About noon we descend by a narrow shelf of road to the depths of the steep ravine, at the foot of which stands Makatuke Bridge, comprising three 63ft. and five 20ft. spans. This bridge was erected at a cost of about £2,000 in a place where it was never required, and now is familiarly

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known as Eoehforfc's Folly At Seaton's camp, in the heart of the bush, we stop for lunch, finding our dessert in konini berries, which we pluck from trees growing about the clearing. Our road abounds in bog-holes, and is thickly interlaced in places with the roots of trees, and occasionally the trunk of some large tree which had fallen right across the track obliged us to make a deviation by scrambling as best we could through dense bush. After traversing the forest for sixteen miles we enter with feelings of relief upon the Waimarino Plains, with Buapehu glittering in its snowy mantle close to our left. A canter of six miles over the sandy undulating plains brings us at 4.30 p.m. to our resting-place for the night, an untenanted Government whare on the very margin of the forest. Our whare is a veritable lodge in the wilderness, and we feel more than ever out of the world, but wonderfully reconciled withal to our solitude. Every man has to prepare his own bed, and we are very soon busily at work cutting down wiwi rushes and fern scrub to pile up on our wooden bunks. We breakfast before 8 next morning, and ten minutes afterwards are in the saddle, briskly picking our way across the plain towards the forest. After we were well into the bush we passed through a forest of totara fully five miles in length. It is said to be about the finest totara bush in the Island. It certainly introduces us to the most charming bush scenery we have yet passed through. We had travelled twenty-five miles, and the sun was fast waning when we emerged into the open scrub-clad country, and by a sharp descent reached the banks of the Wanganui. We were in Taumarunui district at last, and were not impressed by it. At the Native kainga a short halt was made while Natives welcomed the Premier and Mr Carroll. Early next morning the meeting with the Natives took place. Here we found Mr Hursthouse and Mr Tanner waiting to escort us onwards from that point. " Next morning we parted company with many regrets from Mr G T Murray, who had piloted the party all the way from Ohingaiti. Nothing was omitted by him that could insure the comfort of the party, and no detail overlooked that was necessary to complete the programme laid down. Before 9 o'clock we were on horseback again, and off to Te Kuiti, in the King-country, fifty-two miles distant. There is a good graded road all the way, and rapid progress therefore was made. We journeyed through the valley of Ongaruhe, along the valley of Ohinemoa to Te Poro-o-Toroa Tunnel, and reached Mokau Eailway-station at 6 o'clock. After waiting an hour for the train, we proceed down the line on jiggers to Te Kuiti, nine miles distant. Here Mr. C. Hudson, the District Manager of the Auckland Section, is in waiting to supervise the train arrangements right through to Auckland. At Te Kuiti, Mr. Lang, M.H.B. for Waipa, joined the party, and accompanied us right through the Waikato. He had just returned from a visit to Stratford, and went to the Awakino Settlement, and thence up Ohura Valley to Taumarunui. He was highly impressed with the fine quality of the land about Awakino and Ohura Valley " Next day was a busy one. A Native meeting was held at Te Kuiti in the morning, and another at Otorohanga in the afternoon, both immensely satisfactory, and in the evening we went on to Te Awamutu Township. "A Visit to Bewi. "We drove out beyond Kihikihi on Saturday morning on a visit to Eewi, the celebrated Ngatimaniapoto chief. The old man was stretched out on a mattrass in front of the fire, his wife seated by his side. One glance sufficed to apprise us that he is not far from his end. He could only hear imperfectly, and could not articulate above a whisper, but all his mental faculties are apparently unimpaired. " The Premier spoke to him through Mr Carroll, expressing his pleasure at meeting Eewi. He said he wanted to impress on his mind the fact that all the unpleasantness of the past was long forgotten. Mr Seddon inquired if it was Eewi's wish that the house and land given him by .the Government should pass after his death to his stepson, as, if so, it might be necessary to vary the trust. " Eewi signified that this was his wish. "Mr Seddon promised that it should be done. " The visit came to an end after Eewi requested that the Premier's remarks _ should be sent him in writing, so that he might read what he had not heard, and communicate it to his people. " At Cambridge and Hamilton deputations were received. "A special messenger was sent by Tawhiao to the Premier to explain that he would not be at Euahanu meeting, as a relative was dying, but that he would see Mr. Seddon at Ngaruawahia. A propos of the Premier's interview with Eewi, some reference to the celebrated affray at Orakau may not be without interest. The following poem is from the pen of Thomas Bracken, and the description given of the fight tends to illustrate that the Maoris are behind no other race in resolute valour and endurance :— Three hundred swarthy braves at Orakau — Savage warriors from Drewera, And from the hills and gorges of Taupo— Gathered together to defend the land From the encroachments of the pakeha. The Ngatimaniapoto were there, Led on by Rewi Manga the fearless. Te Paerata, famed in many fights, Commanded the Ngatiraukawa tribe. He was the warrior who cried aloud — " Me mate au ki honei I" which means, " Let us make the pa here ; let us die here." The dauntless chief Te Whenuanui, And Hapurona of Urewera, Headed their wild and savage warriors. Te Waru was there with his East Coast braves, And other chiefs famed in song and story, Met on the spot to resist the spoilers 2—G. 1.

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Who had taken the land from the Maori In the name of the Queen of the far land. Only three hundred warriors were there Entrenched within the weak, unfinished pa, Only three hundred brave men and women To meet the pakeha who surrounded The sod-built fortress, with his well-drilled troops, Nearly two thousand hardy Britons— The Royal Irish and Forest Eangers, And Fortieth Fighters under Leslie. It was the second morning of April, When the colours in Nature's dress were changing From brown and russet hues of autumn To the dark and sadder shades of winter. Three hundred lion-hearted warriors Assembled with Eewi to fan the flame Of deadly hatred to the pakeha Into a vengeful blaze at Orakau, Chanting the deeds of their ancestors, They cried aloud, " Me mate te tangata, Me mate mo te whenua ! " which means, " The warrior's death is to die for the land I " Roaring for blood, our early gun Rent the clouds like a thunder-clap ; Carey cried, " There's work to be done." Close to the walls we pushed the sap. " Ready, lads, with your hand-grenades, Ready, lads, with your rifles true ; Ready, lads, with your trusty blades ; Ready, lads, with your bayonets, too." " Now for the Armstrongs, let them roar: Death unto those that laugh at peace " — Into their nest our volleys pour— " Steady, there ! Let the firing cease." 'Tis Cameron's voice. " Tell the foe To leave the pa —their lives we'll spare. Tell them Britons can mercy show ; Nothing but death awaits them there." Then Major Mair, with flag of truce, before the Maoris stood, And said, " 0 friends, be warned in time ; we do not seek your blood. Surrender, and your lives are safe." Then, through the whole redoubt, The swarthy rebels answered with a fierce, defiant shout, "Kα whawhai tonu! Ake! ahe! ake !"* Again spake gallant Mair : " 0 friends, you wish for blood and strife, With blind and stubborn bravery preferring death to life ; But send your women and your children forth —they shall be free." They answered back, " Our women brave will fight as well as we: Kα whawhai tonu! Ake! ake! ake!" Up rose brave Ahumai then, a chieffcainess, and said : " 0 1 what have we to live for if our dearest ones be dead? If fathers, husbands, brothers, too, as mangled corses lie, Why should we stay behind them here ? Beside them let us die ! Kα whawhai tonu I Ahe! ake! ake!" Again the fiery-throated cannon roared aloud for blood Again the hungry eagle swooped and shrieked for human food Again wild spirits soaring, saw their shattered shells beneath In pools of gore, and still was heard defiance to the death— "Kα whawhai tonu! Ake! ake I ake!" Now, now the bold defenders in a solid body break Right through the sod-built barricade, o'er palisade and stake And leaping o'er the trenches, 'mid a storm of shot and shell, They rushed to liberty or death, still shouting as they fell — "Kα whawhai tonu ! Ake I ake ! ake I " With wild untutuored chivalry the rebels scorn'd disgrace. O, never in the annals of the most heroic race Was bravery recorded more noble or more high Than that displayed at Orakau in Rewi's fierce reply— " Kα whawhai tonu! Ake! ake I ake!" " Hamilton, 12th March. " On Sunday the Premier, Mr Carroll, and party, accompanied by the Mayor and Councillors of Hamilton and a number of residents of that place and Te Awamutu, visited the celebrated Waitomo Caves. " This morning the Premier and Mr Carroll drove out from Hamilton to a Native meeting at Hukanui, twelve miles distant. They were accompanied by Mr George Wilkinson, Government Native Agent, Mr. G. Mueller, Crown Lands Commissioner at Auckland , and Mr W A. Graham. The Native settlement was by the roadside, and on the approach of the visitors the Natives received the party with the usual demonstrations of welcome. The visitors were conducted to the centre of the marae.

* "We will fight for ever, and ever, and ever."

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" The Demands of the Natives. " Tana Tamehana, alias Taingakawa, chief of the Ngatihaua Tribe (Premier of Native Parliament, and second son of William Thompson, the celebrated king-maker), was the first speaker He said that their first request was that the Premier should remove all taxes from Native land, and their next request was that he should no longer allow the Native Land Court to have jurisdiction over Native land. The Natives likewise wished to have returned to them certain lands which had been handed over to the Government for school purposes and had never been utilised. They now wanted their lands back, in order that they might apply them to other purposes. Moreover, it was their desire to be relieved entirely from the dox-tax, and that the chiefs and hapus should be allowed to decide whether surveys should be made or not over their lands, and that Acts for the settlement of the land by the Government should not affect Maori lands. They also wished that Native tribunals should be left to deal with cases arising between the Maoris themselves, and that the Maoris should have representation on the Bench in respect of cases between Natives and Europeans. It was also their wish that Europeans should be prohibited from lending money to Natives. " The Premier, in reply, said he had come a long distance to meet them in response to their invitation. He had listened attentively and had noted down all they had said, but there were much larger questions quite untouched that he knew they wanted to speak about. If what they had said so far was all they desired to speak about, it had not been worth while for him to come there, but he knew there was something more important behind. He recognised in them the mouthpieces of the Waikato Natives, and he expected and invited them to speak their minds freely He wished to know how they desired the land to be dealt with—whether tribally through committees appointed for the purpose by themselves or individually Only the other day a serious breach of the law had occurred in the Lower Waikato, by which they had defied the majesty of the law, and had injured themselves. He desired to know how far they were connected with this breach of the law. This was the first time the Maoris had a visit from a Native Minister who was also Premier of the colony. It was his desire to be Minister for the Maoris, and not Minister against the Maoris. He could only help them by their trusting himself and the Government, and being frank and open. He was, therefore, prepared to listen to all they had to say After they had said all they wished, he would explain to them the mind and intentions of the Government. " Tutua te Ngakau said that, although the matters so far spoken of had often been brought under the notice of the Government, no reply had ever been received from the Government. The Premier's question as to how they wished their lands to be dealt with was met by Tana's request that surveys should only be allowed by the chiefs and the hapus, and so also should the settlement of the people upon the land. It should rest with the chiefs and the Native people who owned the land. With regard to the recent trouble to which the Premier had alluded, they knew nothing about it, and Tawhiao was also ignorant of it. The reason he had for saying this was that he had received a letter from Tawhiao, who stated when in Auckland recently he saw the chief Hori Kukutai, who told him there was considerable trouble in connection with Opuatia Block, which was owned by his tribe, and that the person causing the trouble was Kerei Kaihau, alias Te Maihau. Tawhiao, in reply to Hori Kukutai, said, ' Send that man (Kerei Kaihau) back to his own people. You are the person to manage affairs in regard to Opuatia. This was all that had taken place between Tawhiao and Kukutai. " The Premier Very good. " Wiremu Paitaki (Ngatipaoa), Waata Tipa (Ngatipaoa and Thames), Pohutuhutu (Ngatipaoa and Piako) also spoke to similar effect. " Te Puke (an important chief of the Waikato Tribe) supported Tana's views in respect of the matters he had brought forward. A matter that affected them all in the Hukanui district was the dog-tax. The collector came along, and as he was unable to speak Maori the Maori women could not understand him. All the collector could say was ' I'll shoot! I'll shoot ' which put the women and children in great fear " The Premier said that Tawhiao had departed from the understanding to be present at this Hukanui meeting, assigning as a reason that he had a dying relative at Ngaruawahia. Was the case of one sick man more important than the case of all the Natives, who complained of being very sick indeed on account of their land ? He left that for Tawhiao to decide. He had arranged to receive a deputation of Europeans at Ngaruawahia, and if Tawhiao were present he would see him also. "Mr Carroll then addressed the Natives, introducing into the speech a Native ivaiata suitable to the occasion. " At this stage an adjournment was made to lunch, which was served in approved pakeha fashion in a building specially erected for the occasion, and very neatly constructed. " The meeting having been resumed, Tv Makere complained of the deduction of 3,000 acres from the grant of 7,000 acres returned confiscated land given to William Thompson. " The Premier promised to inquire if the details were sent him. " Several other personal matters were brought forward, and inquiry promised, the Premier saying that legislation would be introduced next session to authorise exchanges of Native land and the consolidation of Native interests. "Mr Seddon's Beply "The Premier then replied generally, expressing great pleasure at the cordial welcome accorded him. The Government, he said, were determined to remove the Native difficulties, and the Natives could all assist if they would but help themselves. The Government requested from them their assistance. This was his object in travelling through the Island and meeting the Natives face to face. That day they had followed the example of the Europeans in banqueting him and his

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colleague. Hβ accepted this as a compliment paid to them, to their representative capacity, and as evidence of their goodwill. He would speak plainly to them. They might not agree with all he said, but at any rate they were his sincere convictions. " The Native-land Difficulty. " The Premier then referred to the increase of the European population, and the urgent necessity for land, the gradual impoverishment and decadence of the Natives through recklessly parting with their land to private persons, and the paramount importance of effecting such adjustment of matters as would insure the solution of the present difficulties, and the rapid and systematic settlement of the surplus Native lands. The European population was like a lake constantly increasing in volume with no outlet. The Natives were like the banks of the lake, and if no outlet was provided for the banked up waters the time would come when they would break down their banks and sweep everything before them. The flow of water could not be arrested, but the banks could be preserved if the Natives would listen and act according to wise counsels. By the Treaty of Waitangi their forefathers had ceded sovereignty to the Queen, and secured the powerful protection of the British flag for themselves and their descendants. No other nation on the face of the globe had ever protected the aboriginals like the British nation. Those who remained loyal remained in peaceful possession of their lands ; those who rebelled had become landless and poor. There could not be two powers in New Zealand. The authority of the Queen was supreme. There could not be two Parliaments, but only one, in which Natives and Europeans were both represented. There could be only one Premier, the head of the Government of the colony Various districts possessed so-called or mock Parliaments, for the discussion of political questions, which mock Parliaments had mock Ministers. So, too, the Maoris had Parliaments. Te Whiti had one, there was another on the East Coast, and a third here in the Waikato. AH these were merely advisory bodies having neither legislative nor administrative power The Maoris were represented both in Parliament and in the Cabinet by persons of their own race. If more Governments were permitted in the colony than one their lives would be endangered, and everything end in confusion. " The Opuatia Disturbance. " The first news he got on arrival at Te Kuiti was the news of the arrest of Natives at Opuatia for defiance of the law It deeply pained him. At great discomfort he and his colleague were engaged in a mission in the interest of the Natives—strengthening the banks of the lake, in fact, while other Natives were digging trenches in those banks, thus undoing the good work. If lives had been lost at Opuatia, all the Natives of the colony would have been punished—not physically, but by distrust taking the place of feelings of friendship and goodwill between the races. Mr. Carroll and himself were labouring earnestly to promote the best interests of the Maoris, but occurrences such as he alluded to would tend to neutralise all their work. Kerei Kaihau and his associates had done the Native people more harm than had happened for years. When he (Mr Seddon) told the Parliament how good and sensible and peaceful and progressive the Maoris were, the acts of Kerei Kaihau and his people would be thrown in his teeth. If the Native Parliament or Tawhiao had any power, why did they not prevent Kerei Kaihau and his associates acting as they had done, seeing that their interests were at stake ? At any rate, an all-power-ful Government had stepped in and the wrong-doers were now in custody It was very satisfactory to him to receive their assurance that day that Kaihau's proceedings had been discountenanced by them. Were the Maoris degenerating ? If not, why put forward their women to do wrong, while the men hide behind bushes? Was it because they were ashamed, or because they thought the punishment would be less severe for women? In that they were mistaken. With Europeans a stigma would be attached to the families of those who were sent to gaol. The same taint would attach to the families of Maoris sent to gaol. Therefore, let them not disgrace themselves by the cowardly conduct of inciting their women to do that for which they would be sent to gaol. Kaihau's action was more reprehensible seeing that he knew the Premier was approaching, and would listen to all grievances. " The Cause of the Disturbance. "In respect to making roads through Opuatia, if the surveyors did wrong, there was the Supreme Court to appeal to. By the 245 th section of the Counties Act of 1886, all Native roads and tracks, whether surveyed or unsurveyed, were roads within the meaning of the Act, and roads, too, could be taken by Proclamation through private lands. (By the aid of a plan the Premier showed the need of taking a road through the Opuatia Block, so as to bring Tuakau and Eaglan into closer communication.) Kerei Kaihau and his people had no right in that block, and should not have dared to interfere between the owners and the Government. The Government must and would carry out the law The road when made would be used by Natives and pakehas alike, and, like other roads, belonged as much to the Natives as to the pakehas. This road would be made, and he hoped to have the assistance of all right-thinking Natives in putting it through. The land that would be improved by it was all Native land. If there was any further wrongdoing the guilty parties would be severely punished. " Taxation. "With reference to the requests put forward by Tamehana, the pakehas just as much as the Maoris wanted to escape taxation, but the Government could not do without money and taxes therefore must be imposed for the benefit of both races. As to the objections to local rating, the Natives had only to pay half-rates, and where they were too poor the Governor had the power to exempt them altogether. Any cases of hardship could therefore be submitted to the Native Minister.

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" School Reserves. " As to educational reserves, he was very sorry to hear them say they did not want schools, because such a thing would condemn their children to inferior positions. If faith had not been kept with them in putting up schools, he would see it was done. " The Dog-tax. " As to the dog-tax, he would let the County Councils know that their collectors were regarded as taniwhas by the Maoris. Perhaps it would Suffice to print notices of the tax in Maori and English, and send collectors who understood Maori. He would prefer to see less dogs and more pickaninnies about Maori pas. " The Committee System. "The request as to surveys and dealing with the land he took to mean that they preferred combined dealing in these matters, through a committee elected by themselves, instead of individual dealing. In this they were consistent with the East Coast Natives. He could not give a definite answer until he had heard the opinions of Natives elsewhere. It might be that the intended legislation on this matter would have to be optional, so as to allow choice between the two systems. "No Natives to be Landless "The Government were determined that there should be no landless Natives in the colony, and those in the South Island who had no lands were now to have reserves granted them. If the Waikato Natives without land approached Parliament by petition, like relief might be afforded them. He could not agree to a proposal that there should be no surveys. The title to every acre of Native land in the colony must be ascertained. The Native committees could facilitate this work, and thus save expenses and litigation. " Loans to Natives. " As to the last question, regarding the prevention of loans, it would be a good thing if no credit was given to either Maoris or Europeans. The Bill introduced last session to take away power to recover debts under £20 would probably be reintroduced next session. The Premier concluded a three hours' speech by expressing satisfaction at having met the Natives at Hukanui, and by saying that he felt confident of finding a way to assist them, but that depended on their remaining a lawabiding people. "At Tamahana's request the Premier promised to have a report of his speech translated in Maori, printed and circulated amongst the Natives. Mr Seddon also said that if the Natives would send delegates to Wellington before or during the session, in order to represent their views to the Government while Native legislation was being prepared, the Government would charge the expenses to the Civil List. "The proceedings closed at 5 o'clock, having lasted upwards of five hours. The result is considered eminently satisfactory by both Maoris and pakehas. "The Premier, Mr Carroll, and party, accompanied by several Native chiefs, arrived at Ngaruawahia at 9.30. A messenger was sent across the Waikato Eiver at once to Tawhiao's settlement, a mile and a half distant, and returned at 11.30 p.m., reporting that Tawhiao was not there." NgaruawahiA. While here a deputation consisting of Wi Patene and Hone Patene waited on the Premier, requesting that Sections 65 and 69 should be reserved, so as to secure the interests of those beneficially interested. It appears the original trustees are dead, and the trust originally intended cannot be continued. Wi Patene said, —We wish to be relieved in regard to this trust. We have suffered in consequence. We d» not receive any proceeds from the land. The original trustees are dead. We want a law passed by Parliament to get the title to this block investigated—some power whereby the Court can investigate these two sections, and ascertain who the owners are, that all may participate therein irrespective of any trust or restriction. The whole thing is explained in the letter to the Minister of Native Affairs. We wish the land brought under the operation of the law which affects the reserves in the Whakatane district. There certain lands were investigated by the Commissioner and awarded to certain persons in trust for the tribe. The trustees have since died. Power was given by special legislation for the Court to operate on those lands, so that the people may be found who are entitled thereto. We wish that law to be extended to these same blocks of which lam speaking. Aparima Patene, son of Wiremu Patene, who was one of the trustees, made representations and was appointed successor to his father This is against the wish of the people, and what we want is that the trust, if any, affecting that block should be annulled and the beneficiaries determined. We have made representations to the Government, and in reply have been informed on more than one occasion that the Court had power, under certain sections which were quoted in such replies, to take the matter into its consideration and perform what we wanted, but up to the present time we have been unable to achieve our purpose. The Minister : How long ago was that ? Have you got any correspondence with you ? Wi Patene I had the reply from the Government to which I have referred, but Judge Gudgeon asked me to deposit the letter with him, and he would see into the matter The Minister • How long ago is that ? Wi Patene . Last year when he was here in Ngaruawahia. The purport of the letter of the Government to us, in reply to our communication, was that the Government considered there Were provisions in the new Act whereby the Court could deal with the case , but they found when looking at the law that such provisions referred only to reserves in the Whakatane district, there

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was nothing to indicate that the power of the Court could be extended so as to include these sections I am alluding to. The Government is not aware that these are reserves, because they were made reserves in accordance with an arrangement come to amongst the Natives themselves. The Minister Are they reserves at all ? Wi Patene These lands were adjudicated upon by Mr Mackay he was Commissioner in 1867, and he declared by an arrangement with the people that a trust was created in the two persons I have mentioned in favour of the people. The Minister: I will make inquiries when I get to Auckland who has the titles to the sections he has mentioned. If, however, no trust has been declared, I can do nothing with it. On arrival at Auckland, inquiries were made, and it was found that there was no analogy between this case and the case at Whakatane, and nothing could be done in the matter Mr William A. Graham, of Ngaruawahia, introduced Hone Wini Kerei to the Premier, and explained that this was a private matter, and that he understood from this Native that a promise of some land at Hungawhere had been made to him some years ago. Hone Wini Kerei said, —I am glad to see you, Mr Seddon. What I wish to say is concerning Hungawhere. Ngatihana sold this land to Sir Donald McLean —4,000 acres. The tribe to which I belong received no payment. My father was Wini Kerei te Whiti. My father asked the Government to separate 1,000 acres for him. The late Sir Donald McLean said, " Leave it to me , I will consider the question." He sent a statement to Parliament concerning this claim. The reply was that the Government had agreed to award him £20 in compensation. Wini Kerei would not receive the £20. What he wanted was 1,000 acres. That is the question I wish to inform you on. He would not receive the £20. Wini Kerei is dead, and lam his representative, therefore I bring this forward before you. As I have said, we did not receive the £20. Mr. Puckey would be able to explain these things. What we wanted was the land , we did not want the payment. That is all 1 wish to say and lay before you, sir The Minister Have you got particulars of the sections of land, and any correspondence on the subject ? Hone Wini Kerei: The correspondence will be in the offices of the Government. Mr Graham here explained that Wini Kerei was a young man who had only now been elected by the tribe to represent Wini Kerei (deceased), and had not had time to go fully into the question, but merely wished to bring the matter before the Premier. He would ask the Premier to consider his position, —that he was only a young man, and had only just got into this position. The older men of the tribe would know more about the facts of the case. They were fully conversant therewith. The Minister (to Mr Graham) A thousand acres to be given out of the Hungawhere Block ? Mr Graham : Four thousand acres was the sale, 1,000 acres is what they claim. The Minister I will find out about it. Wiremu Pataki, another Native, said, —I should like to say a few words in explanation. What Hone Wini Kerei has just said to you is correct. There is a certain Native, who is not here, who could also substantiate what he has said. I have seen copies of the documents referred to. That block was 4,000 acres. On the application of Wini Kerei and another, Hunui, it was asked that 1,000 acres should be set aside as their claim in the block. Their suggestion was that 1,000 acres should be awarded to Wini Kerei and 3,000 acres should be apportioned to the Crown. They were told that the claim of Wini Kerei (deceased) would be settled by Mr Puckey He was authorised to pay £20 compensation for this claim. Wini Kerei said this was a small sum considering his claim was for 1,000" acres. Ngatouri has still got a copy of the letter received from the Crown. It came direct from the Government. Wini Kerei did not consent to receive this money, and he did not receive it. That is all I wish to state. The Minister Can you get me a copy of that letter ? Wiremu Pataki Yes, I shall be able to get a copy The Minister (to Mr Graham) I wish to ask this If the Government bought 4,000 acres, why should the Government be asked to give 1,000 back ? Mr Graham Well, I might explain that there were two claimants to this land. There was a sister and a brother. They were the owners of the land. Prom the sister came Wini Kerei, from the brother came Ngatihana. Ngatihana was the one who sold the land. The brother and sister (Ngatitahuna) were both joint owners. The brother sold the land to the Government, the sister did not. Wini Kerei said, " Give me 1,000 acres, and I will cry quits." The Minister Then, practically, the Government bought from the wrong owners, according to that. Mr Graham Well, they would not like to say that. Sir Donald McLean purchased the land. The brother sold, the sister did not. These are the facts of the case. The Minister The question is this The brother sold 4,000 acres, and he only owned half and his sister half. Mr Graham As you put it, you understand the Government bought 4,000 acres from the brother when the sister was a claimant. They say they were both in it. The brother sold and sold all his right, but the sister did not sell any right at all. The Minister Very well, then, the Government bought from the wrong owner. Mr. Graham They would not say they (the Government) bought from the wrong person. They simply say they bought from the brother, not from the sister. The Minister Well, I shall have to inquire whether the Government purchased from the right owner, and why they offered the £20. Wini Kerei next addressed the Premier with regard to the block called Te Punga Maukau, Upper Piako and Waitoa district. He said the land known as Te Punga was sold or given to the late Sir Frederick Whitaker Mauku belonged to Sir Frederick Whitaker. An arrangement was made with Sir Frederick Whitaker by which the Maoris gave up the Te Punga Block, and he was

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to return a portion of the Mauku Block owned by him. The acreage he was to give out of the Mauku Block was to be equal to what they gave out of the Te Punga Block. Since then the area out of the Mauku Block had been surveyed, and it had been found that the area was not equal to that which they gave to Sir Frederick Whitaker out of the Te Punga Block. That was the grievance—the shortage of the area out of the Moukau Block. The Minister The Government cannot interfere in the matter If faith has not been kept with you, what has the Government got to do with it ? Mr Graham I would explain that this is a matter which really concerned the late Sir Frederick Whitaker The cause was an error in the survey of the Mauku Block, and was no fault of Sir Frederick Whitaker or anybody else. It was presumed by all parties to contain so many thousand acres, but when it was resurveyed it was found there had been an error in the original survey The Crown grant to Sir Frederick Whitaker was for 12,000, but when it was resurveyed there was an error in which the area did not pan out. The Minister: The position, I take it, is this There had been short measurement through a wrong survey There is a guarantee fund., he can make a claim upon it to be reimbursed, but he should apply to the trustees of Sir Frederick Whitaker Mr Graham I understand he can appeal to them to give him what they bargained to give him in exchange. Wini Kerei The only reason I brought the matter before you was because my piece was larger than what I got back. Meecbe. "On arriving at Mercer, at 10.55, Mr Seddon received a telegram from Ngaruawahia informing him that half an hour after he left Tawhiao arrived by Te Awamutu train. The Premier telegraphed in reply that his engagements would not admit of his returning to Ngaruawahia, but that if Tawhiao desired to see him he could come on to Auckland. Our train waited at Mercer the arrival of Te Awamutu train, so that had Tawhiao continued his journey he must have overtaken us there. "At Mercer we met Kerei Kaihau, who had been released on bail the previous day, and had come up to Mercer with the evident intention of intercepting the Premier on the way He had been pointed out to Mr. Seddon, and therefore when Kaihau boldly advanced and extended his hand to greet the Premier, the latter, prepared for him, placed his own hand behind his back, and said, ' No, your hand is soiled, I decline to recognise wrongdoers. Kaihau looked crestfallen at this rebuff, and turned rather sheepishly away " There was not much at Mercer to engage our attention. Amongst its half-dozen buildings was a dilapidated wooden structure fronting the railway-station, bearing in chalk the inscription, ' Mercer Skating-rink. Fun for thousands! No flies on this place!' Evidently there had been far more flies on hand than skaters, for the building was sinking into melancholy ruin." Auckland. The Opuatia Affair As a matter of fact, the people who got up the agitation here and pulled up the survey-pegs were not the owners of the land at all, but were merely living there on sufferance, as the following interview between Hori Kukutai, the real owner, and the Premier will show This chief camle all the way to Auckland with the Premier for the purpose of thoroughly setting the matter at rest once and for all. Hori Kukutai said, —Sir, I will not delay you by going right away back to the origin of this particular matter The Premier Before hearing you at all, I want to know from you whether what this man Kerei Kaihau has been doing was done with your sanction and consent. Hori Kukutai: That doing was his own, I tried to stop him. I have nothing whatever to do with it. The Premier lam very much pleased to hear you say that. Hori Kukutai At the commencement of this Kerei Kaihau trouble at Opuatia, it arose through some Native cattle mixing with some European cattle. Then some of my people were allowed to act under the orders of Kerei Kaihau. This led to a large meeting. I then stood forth to prevent Kerei Kaihau from carrying the matter any further, as it began to become serious. I succeeded in restraining Kerei Kaihau and turning him away, and that trouble ended. The next trouble that occurred was in reference to the road through the land we handed over at Opuatia for Tawhiao and his people to live upon. That was when Tawhiao came over from the lands of Eewi and Wahanui. Bewi and Wahanui had their lands surveyed and leased, and there was no land upon which Tawhiao could remain. That was the reason why we gave that land to Tawhiao to live upon, —because he had no land at all, he and his people, and that is how it came about that Tawhiao's name became identified with Opuatia: but any authority that might be attached to the fact of Tawhiao locating there was since put aside by our putting that land through the Court and bringing it under survey Tawhiao's decree that there should be no surveys or land-laws was not given effect to. Now, when the Government applied to me for permission to take the road through the ground, I consented. What is there wrong in a road? It is beneficial both to Natives and Europeans. Now, this is my application to you, the Premier, and it is for you to say whether you will give effect to my application or not that is a matter for your heart. I want this road formed, let the Government take this road through. Ido not want the Government to pay compensation for it; all I ask is that they fence it on both sides of Sections 10 and 11. Sections 10 and 11 belong to me. I want the Government to keep authority over that road, and not to hand it over to the Road Board. Let the Eoad Board be here or there on either side of Sections 10 and 11. There are seventeen owners in No. 11, and twenty in No. 10.

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Some of those who have been arrested are owners in No. 11. This is my big word to you. That is the main point of my application, that the Government will make the road as surveyed. It is eight miles altogether The Premier It is the Government that makes the road, but it is the law made by the Parliament that vests the roads in the local bodies. Parliament will not sit for many months; and what this man Kerei Kaihau has done now—whatever Parliament might have been prepared to do before—by his breaking the law and going on like this, will damage any good intentions they may have had. By the law of the Counties Act, and by the general law, power is given to the Government to go through any Native lands to make roads—in fact, your forefathers agreed to that when the Treaty of Waitangi was made. Now, if they wanted any special favours in respect to it, any chance of special favours has been destroyed by the way the Natives have been going on, obstructing the Government. For instance, these people who own this Section 11—if it is fenced they will say, "Oh ! that is because we got up a row. If we had not got up this row the Government would never have fenced it." These people have destroyed your request. If there had been no trouble, a.nd the Natives wanted any special favour from the Government, whatever the Government had been prepared to do before, these people have cut their own throats by breaking the law Hori Kukutai That is true. Six times I attempted to keep them back. The Premier . I feel for you very much, because I know you have behaved very well, These other people have done so much wrong that you suffer through their wrong-doing. Hori Kukutai Yes, lam the sufferer. This trouble has been heaped on to my head by these refractory people. Not only that, my possessions—my land is also troubled with their actions. My father is dead, he was a great upholder of the authority of the Crown in this country I have succeeded him, and have done everything in my power to follow in his footprints, but I am considerably handicapped. The Premier I will not forget that. We will go on and finish the road straight off. Then, when they see the benefits to be derived from having a road to their kaingas, and recognise that the law is not to be violated, then I will take you into my thoughts. Hori Kukutai That road is absolutely necessary The Premier I will not forget the services of your father, neither will I forget your services, but I will punish these others. When this road is finished I shall be best able to see how I can serve you, but the others I will not serve in any way You can rely upon my word and the word of the Government, and we will support you even if you are in trouble with your own people. We will see you through it and uphold your mana. You are quite right to get your land through the Court. You are not getting any younger, you are getting up in years, and you are quite right to get your affairs settled and have the land that belongs to you. I see a way of helping you under the law of last session. You will see for yourself you have been for years kept back by other people, and deprived from having what belonged to you. You have been rich in the enjoyment of land that belonged to your forefathers, but poor because of other people. It is now about time you got the full benefit of what belongs to you, and the Government are going to help you to do that. Other people study their children, and you should study yourself and your children. Now, yesterday Tawhiao sent word that he wanted to see me, and meet me at Hukanui. At great inconvenience and loss to the colony I stopped to see him. The first day he excused himself by saying one of the Maori men was sick. I have now got a telegram saying his daughter is sick, and that was the cause of my not seeing him last night. The demands upon my time are such that I could not trouble any further about him. He wants me to go back and see him, but lam better engaged talking business with you. lam talking now with the owner of the land., Tawhiao was simply a lodger. It is you who should have the benefit of that land; it will be to the benefit of both yourself and the Government to have the thing settled once and for all. Hori Kukutai: It will be a great benefit both to Maoris and Europeans if that road is made, and it will be the means of their being able to carry their produce to the railway, and so to a better market. The Premier When we have made the road we will keep it in repair. There is a prejudice in the Native mind against local Eoad Boards. It would be as well if they kept away from them until the feeling died out. The rate will be struck and levied all the same as if there was no road at all. The road does not make the rate. I think the limit is five miles. They are exempt from special rates, and their rating is only one-half. Any way we will get the thing settled and opened up, and all will go well. There will be an advantage in making the road, for there will be work for some of the Natives. Hori Kukutai All the Natives on my section want to be employed. The Premier: Those who have broken the law will not get employment, but those who stand by and help the Government will get employment. Those that you recommend to the Assistant Surveyor for work —their claims will be considered. Any that follow Kerei Kaihau and have been breaking the law against your wishes need not send in their names, because they will not get employment. I intend to uphold your mana, and discountenance Kerei Kaihau. That is my last word. We part good friends. Hori Kukutai lam satisfied you have met my approach to you in this matter in a light very favourable-indeed. It is far more than I expected. The Premier I will give instructions to Mr Mueller to get the plans ready at once, so as to make the road in the good weather You cannot make-roads well in winter. The next thing you will find is the men working on the road, and that will end the trouble. Pulling out pegs will not help them much when the road is made. Kerei Kaihau saw me on the railway platform to-day and wanted to shake hands with me, but I would not do so. I said his hands were soiled, and I did not wish to have anything to say to him, because he had broken the law Kerei Kaihau and

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his friends will be making a road for nothing, but you and your friends will be making roads and will be paid for it. Hori Kukutai: Yes, ours will be a special contract. Whangabei. We left Auckland on the night of the 14th March in the steamer "Wellington " for Whangarei, and arrived there next morning. Descriptive. —Whangarei Heads. Bemarkables. Puriri-trees. Hedges of orange-trees. Mr Dobie's orchard. Met by Mr E. Thompson, M.H.E., and leading settlers. Left to hold Native meeting at Poroti. Accompanied by Mr E. Thompson. Description of road and Whangarei Falls (see Stars report). Premier meets gumdigger, determines to see mode of working. Takes spade and spear from digger, and works hard for a quarter of an hour Digger says, " Not first time you have handled spade, I can see." Meeting at Poeoti. (Uriroi Tribe.) After lunch the party adjourned to a large meeting-house. The Premier opened the meeting in a short address. He said, —I received an intimation that the Natives desired to see me here at this place. I promised to come, and am now here prepared to listen to them, and to hear from them direct concerning any matter that affects their interests. Men of the Native race, I ask you to open your minds freely and speak to me as a friend. If you do not do so and there is any misunderstanding, the blame must attach to you and not to the Government. You have an opportunity to-day that you may not have again, and you had better make the best of it. lam a good listener, and will now sit down and listen. Matiu Komene said, —The reason we wished you to come here and meet us is on account of the Government Bill which I hold in my hand, and which the people of this place will never agree to or indorse. That is the big subject with which your visit here is associated—that you yourself may hear direct from us and other Natives that we are not in agreement with this Government Bill. That is all, so far as I am concerned. The Premier What part of the Bill do you disagree with? What Bill is it, and what part do you disagree with ? Matiu Komene The Land Acquisition Bill. I disagree with the whole of it, there is not a single part of it that finds favour with the people of this place. Hira te Taka I sent a letter to you inviting you to come here, that you might listen to the important matter which interests us and which has just been given expression to by the last speaker—the Bill of the Government. The Premier Have you any more subjects to bring forward, so that I can reply to each of them? Hoera Eewi I welcome you, the Minister, in accordance with custom , and I thank you for coming to see us in response to our invitation. It is true that one of the principal subjects about which we wish to confer with you is the one already mentioned. In taking the stand we do, we do not wish in any way to take up a domineering position. This Bill is a little of a surprise to us. It came upon us as such , and the Native people in this part of the Island were not aware that it would be passed into law Perhaps, if intimation had been given to them beforehand that legislation of that character was to be passed into law, they would have had time to adapt themselves to its provisions. We are pleased, however at this opportunity being given to us of having a korero with you and your colleague. It is only recently that we have seen a copy of the Act. That is all I have to say in reference to that. I wish now to speak to you about certain proposed roads in this district. I would inform you that the road that goes over this land was one which had been given to the Government by the old people, and at the present time we consider that that handing-over still holds good, and that the road is still under the Government authority We did not sell the right to the road, neither did we receive compensation for it, it was given free to the Government. I mention this to you, the Premier and Minister, that the said agreement in reference to this road will not be departed from by us. I will now go on to another matter, and, as the member for the district, Mr Thompson, is here, he can also listen to the request. It is, that the Native Land Court which is to investigate this block should be ordered to sit here at Poroti. That is our wish. The survey is near completion. There are several people in this district spread over the country, and this is the most convenient place for them to assemble. They could not very well go down to the towns, as they would have a difficulty in finding beds and food for themselves and generally they would be at great discomfort. There is yet another matter The people in this locality wish Pomare Kingi, one of our chiefs, who is confined in the lunatic asylum, to be set free. They think they have complied sufficiently with the law by handing him over, and putting him in the charge under which he now is. He does not seem to get any better, and all his relatives are anxious that he should be brought back amongst them, and they would devise some means of taking care of him. All the people are in grief about him because he is so far removed. They wish to see him occasionally It is a prayer from this people that Pomare Kingi be set free, and returned to them. That is all I have to say Herera Ponamo I heartily support the last speaker We do not understand the Bill referred to —we are ignorant of its provisions. I likewise support the application made by the last speaker in reference to the Court sitting at Poroti. We cannot go to the towns , we have no one to keep us while we are there. Long live the Minister ! Matene Eipa I stand up to thank the Premier for coming here, and to thank his Ministry We are in the dark about this Bill. The reason we wanted you here was that you might explain this Bill to us. Some of the people supposed that if they got the Minister here they would get him to reconsider the matter. 3—G 1.

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The Premier, in reply, said, —I feel greatly pleased at being present to-day to meet you all, and I feel sure that I shall be able to remove the doubts and misapprehensions regarding the Bill mentioned by the first speaker In being here to-day we are dealing with you the same as we deal with Europeans. When Europeans desire to see the Minister, and to hear an explanation on matters affecting their interests, they request him to meet them. I am here, and feel sure that good will result from this interview Now, there is just one thing that I should like to say to you. The first speaker to-day is not of your tribe and not of this district he is a stranger Ido not think it was right that he should speak on behalf of the Natives of this place. I came at the invitation of the Poroti Tribe to see them, and not to meet agitators from the eastern coast. To show you how unreasonable he is, when I asked the question, " On what grounds do you object to the Bill? " he could give no reasons he simply said, "We object to everything. Now, the speakers direct from the Poroti people are more reasonable, because they said, "We do not understand it we are prepared to listen ,it has given us some trouble because of our ignorance , will you explain?' Now, there were a people many years ago, when the greatest Being that ever came upon earth came amongst them and told them what was for their good, refused absolutely to listen, and in their blind ignorance they committed a great sin. But there were a few who listened and received relief, and through them the whole world. Now, there are a few Natives whom I have spoken to in reference to this Bill. I was down the Waikato amongst the Maniapotos. Now, the Maniapotos and their chiefs have gone carefully through this matter, and they say to the Government it is best for the Natives to have such a Bill passed, and thanked them for passing it. Now, I will shortly show you that it is to your own interest. Formerly, in selling land, you were bound by the Treaty of Waitangi to sell only to the Government. Your forefathers pledged the Native race only to sell their land to the Government. Now, you never had an opportunity before this Act was passed of having this land valued before it was sold, and of having independent persons as representatives of the Native race to fix the fair value before it was offered for sale. Now the persons who have to fix the value of the land are the Surveyor-General, the Commissioner of Taxes, the Commissioner of Crown Lands, and the Native member for the district, and the Natives to be appointed by the Chief Judge of the Court. Now, that is the same sort of power, only more potent, as that which is given under the Land Act, which deals with settlement of Crown lands. You are not bound to sell unless a majority of the owners of the land signify their intention to that effect. Well, now, suppose a majority decide to sell the land is then taken under section 7of this Act. "Under this Act you will enjoy a privilege you never possessed before in fact, you can sell to any one you like, providing it is for the upset price fixed by the Board I have just mentioned, or for as much above that as you can get. The land is submitted to public auction, and any person has a right to buy The Natives get the full market value for their land. Consider well this Act, and you will find that it is the most liberal Nativeland purchase law ever passed by Parliament. If you do not accept the offer given to you, and the freedom it gives, all I can say is you are doing yourselves a wrong. A question has been raised as to the mode of dealing with lands. Some people advocate the committee system, and others deprecate it. The latter contend that trustees in the past received moneys for the land, spent the same, and never accounted to the owners. Now, the Maniapotos do not want to have committees. They want every Native to have his land, and to deal with it as he likes. But some Natives in the Waikato who have no land say they want to be provided for through the medium of committees or trustees. In respect to these two questions the Government have no strong feeling. They are prepared by legislation to make it cut both ways, so that the Natives can tell the Court under what conditions they would like their title to issue. When telling you so much, that brings me to the question of putting the land through the Court. You have mentioned that to-day because you wanted the Court to sit here. As we stand in the colony at the present time, you Natives know as well as I can tell you that the time has come when we should no longer permit whole tracts of country to remain in a state of nature —unoccupied by yourselves or by Europeans—simply lying in a state of waste. It is no good to the Natives. Although wealthy in land, they are practically poor, living in a state of destitution. The Natives do not know who are the owners, so far as the land-laws are concerned , and they do not know how much land belongs to each Native , and they are forced to live in such a state of uncertainty that all their aspirations to settlement and cultivation are dulled in consequence, and eventually they become impoverished. The young men grow up, and there is no work for them to do, they are anxious to work, but they have no future—they do not know what belongs to them the result is, they acquire bad habits. They wish to advance with the pakehas. Their fathers and mothers would like to see them do this, but the circumstances which exist do not favour them , you have not got your lands through the Court, and you do not know what you own, individually or collectively If you knew what belonged to each, or to any corporate body of you, then you would know what to do. You are not doing justice to yourselves, your children, or the colony This is what the Government want to bring under your notice. We do not desire to force you, but it is to your advantage to have use made of your lands, and we wish you to assist us in putting in the statutebook that which will give relief to you all. The time is opportune. You have a Government in power friendly-disposed towards you. We do not want you to take up a negative position, because if you do it will be detrimental to your own interests. I have now been through the country from Ohingaiti to here. I have met the Natives in all the parts I have travelled, I have spoken to them as I have spoken to you to-day, and the result has been very beneficial. I want my words to rest on you I want you to ponder over them, and, after going through the matter, submit your views to your member of Parliament, that he may speak for you, and help to pass such laws as will be in your own interest and promote the welfare of the colony I will come to another question upon which you touched, and that was the question of roads. In respect of roads, from the time of the treaty already mentioned to the present there has always been power

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to take land for road purposes. Of course, if the land were held in fee-simple, as land held by Europeans, the Government would deal with you as with the Europeans. The question is not raised by you to-day, because you have said that arrangements were made by which you ceded the land for road purposes, and this being so you are not going back on that now The land is still available for roads. I like to hear from you expressions of that kind, because it takes me back many years to the time when first I knew the Natives, and learned of the straight-going principles of your forefathers when once their word was given it was known to be sacred, and was kept. Keep to that principle, and you will find it will be well for you, and you will raise yourselves in the estimation of the pakehas. You will be setting a good example to your children. I will now deal with what to me is a painful subject—l am sure it is painful to you—and that is regarding Pomare Kingi. Now, no one feels more than I do when I hear that one of our fellow-beings, whether Native or European, is afflicted by the most terrible thing that can happen to mankind. When a man's reason collapses it is worse than death, because it is a living death. You have my deep sympathy But it is less painful to him than it is to you, because in many cases the memory is destroyed, and he does not know those who mourn for h%i. In treating with your application we must be careful. There is always the danger of further development of the disease with which he is afflicted. Serious consequences may follow, he is not a responsible being, and suddenly, without the slightest warning, may take the lives of those near and dear to him. I know a case that came under my notice in which a father had been taken out of an asylum, and appeared to be getting on all right. His wife and relatives said that he was all right, but the result was, he killed his wife and child, and he had ultimately to be replaced in the asylum. Now, in that very case I have alluded to the Government were blamed for having listened to the demands of the wife, and for having allowed him to be set at liberty Now, I know you have spoken to-day on behalf of the friends of this unfortunate man, and on behalf of his wife and children. I know his wife is quite willing he should come here, and is willing to do all she can, but the Government are responsible, and must make inquiries in case an accident should happen such as I have mentioned. Now, I will make inquiries. I have given you my mind and the mind of the Government. The responsibility rests with us. If we find he is still dangerous to himself or to others, then we cannot liberate him. If he can be set at liberty, then you must give security for his safe-keeping. I think £50 is the bond that must be entered into, and if any persons are willing to be responsible for him, then the Government will favourably consider the question of liberating him on such terms. Now, there is another view of this question You told me to-day that you could not afford to go and see him, he having been removed to such a distance from you. You his friends are too poor to visit him, and that is why you would like him to be here. Now, I shall be prepared to meet you in that, if satisfied I could do so out of a fund set apart for the benefit of the Natives. I am prepared, sooner than run any risk, to allow relatives to occasionally visit him. Then there would be no danger That is the alternative, if we find it is unsafe to set him at liberty I assure you I feel deeply for him and his friends, and for any one who is afflicted in this way I now come to the question of the sitting of the Court. You have told me you are not in a position to attend such sittings of the Court in the town —that you have not sufficient food to keep you there, while the Court is sitting and determining your title. You have assured me that nearly all the owners of the land are in this locality You have also assured the Government that every convenience will be granted to the Court if it is held here. Now, I desire to encourage the Natives to keep the Court away from the towns. Ido not believe in their coming into the larger towns, because I know it costs them a lot of money to live there. They have to take their food with them, engage houses for their accommodation, and generally incur huge expenses in getting the land through the Court, which oftentimes leads them into serious difficulties. They acquire bad habits, they take too much ivaipiro, whilst, if at home, they would be less likely to do so. Their women are oftentimes molested when with them, and everything about town life tends to their demoralisation. I am therefore prepared to grant your request that the sitting of the Court be held here. The Government are always pleased to meet you when you are reasonable in your demands , and if you continue in that way it will be for the benefit of the two races. I will now conclude by thanking you for the way in which you have received me and the member of the Cabinet representing the Native race. Waiomio. (Ngapuhi Tribe, subdivided into Ngatihine and Others.) The Premier said, —Salutations to the Native race here assembled. On behalf of the Government I express to you our very best wishes. I am sorry you were disappointed last night. I intended to have remained on my way to Kawakawa and to have met you, but, however, that is past. lam here now and am very pleased to see you. In the past, Ministers have gone to see the pakehas at their different centres, while they have not done the same with the Maoris. Now we are both one people, we are all New-Zealanders, and the Native has as much right to be consulted and advised as the pakeha. There is the one Queen, the one sovereignty, the sovereignty which your forefathers agreed to accept when the Treaty of Waitangi was signed. There is the one law, which is just as binding upon the Maori as upon the pakeha. We must all obey the law, or otherwise life and property would not be safe. So long as these laws are administered and obeyed by both races good will come. In regard to the making of laws, probably it will be to your advantage that lam here to-day. Now, lam here to-day more to listen than to speak I will therefore listen to what you have to say If you have any grievances, bring them before me, and any explanation you want I shall be only too happy to give. I want to ascertain the Native mind, I want to be frank I want to let you know we are desirous of doing what is in your interest and in the interest of the colony I have no doubt that you will, through one or two of your leaders, place several matters before me. I would therefore ask, so as to facilitate business, that there be no repetition, no two persons getting up and saying the same thing. I wish you to place your matters as shortly as you can before me. lam a good listener, and want to be your friend, therefore speak fairly, speak frankly

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Wiremu Pomare (nephew of the great Pomare) said, —Salutations to you. lam glad to see you here to-day, also Mr Carroll. Come and see the Ngapuhis. If we had had sufficient notice that you intended coming here, perhaps you would have seen more of this great race, the Ngapuhi Tribe. On account of the short notice, these are all the people you see here assembled. We have nothing to say to you here, but we request your presence at Turanganui, where there is to be a large Native assembly There you will hear all the complaints and all we have to say regarding the Native race. There everything will be explained to you fully Maihi Paraone said, —Salutations to you, the Hon. B. J Seddon, and the Native Minister, the Hon. J Carroll. We have nothing to say to you here, but we have had notice that a large meeting is to be held at Turanganui (Gisborne , and we ask you to be present at that meeting. The Premier said, —I am delighted to find that you are all so well pleased and satisfied with the laws that exist, that you are a contented people, and have nothing to say except to accord me a hearty welcome. When pakehas do not complain, it is because they are satisfied so, if you do not complain, you must be a contented, well-satisfied, and happy people. You understand your own affairs, and you are quite able to tell the Government your wishes, your requirements, and grievances, if you have any I have been a long time on my journey, and have met some hundreds of the Native race, but this is the first place where I have met Natives who are without grievances and are satisfied with the laws as they stand. Do not say later on, in regard to the laws relating to land and other matters, that the Government did not see you and give you an opportunity of expressing your views. I may not reach Gisborne, I may not go there at all. If it so happened that I could not get to Gisborne, then I should not know anything about your requirements or wants. You have this opportunity and if you miss it the responsibility is yours, and it does not rest with me. It is probable that I may visit Gisborne, but you can never tell—it is always best to make sure. You are sure of me now because lam speaking to you. It is not the ghost of the Prime Minister or Native Minister, it is the Prime Minister and Native Minister in person speaking to you. I am now going from you to meet the Natives at Waimate. Ido not think they will tell me that I must go to Gisborne to hear their views. The representative of the Native race in the Government is also present, my friend Mr Carroll. You have also another representative in Parliament—the member for your district. He is your true representative, the one who goes to Parliament to help to make the laws. The representatives you send to Gisborne cannot make laws , they are absolutely powerless. They may go and hold a meeting and make many speeches and put forth their grievances, but they cannot give you any redress or pass laws. There can only be one Parliament, and we can recognise only the representatives elected to that Parliament. I may read what takes place at this Native meeting at Gisborne, but what will weigh with me more will be the utterances of your members in Parliament in respect to questions affecting the Native race. I always think it advisable to speak plainly, so that there shall be n-o misunderstanding. If you rely upon your representatives at the Gisborne meeting to grant you relief, you will be relying on a broken reed not but they will do their best, but the responsibility of governing the country must rest with the Parliament. It is only right I should tell you this. You must not forget that there is a change coming over the face of the country We have now nearly seven hundred thousand people in New Zealand, and only forty thousand of these are of the Native race, and it is owing to this change that I have desired to meet the Natives and consult with them in person, to warn them of the fact that exists, and to ask them to have confidence in the Government that desires to befriend them. The condition of the Native race in the colony is not satisfactory. They are rich in lands, they are large landed proprietors, and yet they are living in a state of poverty—almost of destitution. They are year by year growing less and less, smaller and smaller, and, if things go on as they are, the noble race in the course of a few years will be a thing of the past. We desire to improve the condition of the Natives, we desire to stop and prevent the race I have now described from being a thing of the past. We wish to find them increasing in numbers, living in prosperity, living in peace and happiness and contentment with the pakeha. I have told you very fairly the views of myself and the Government, and of the pakeha. You to-day, through two speakers, have spoken for a portion of the tribe, and, having very little to say more than to welcome me, I must naturally come to the conclusion that you are the only Natives in. New Zealand who are satisfied with the existing state of affairs, and with the unfortunate position you seem to me to be in. With the pakehas we say, " Silence gives consent." That is an old saying, and every little child knows it, and in your case I must infer also that silence gives consent. I told you I was prepared to listen, and came here to listen. I will now conclude by thanking you for the personal and cordial welcome you have given to myself and to my colleague the Hon. Mr Carroll, the representative of the Native race in the Cabinet. lam very pleased to have met you, and, considering the very short notice you have had, you have gathered together here a fairly representative meeting. I was sorry my movements were so uncertain that I was not able to give you as much notice as I could have desired. I feel sure, however, that had I passed by without coming to see you, you would have had a grievance. You have seen now myself and my colleague in person, and I think you will admit we are both " substantial " men. You have seen the Minister for the Natives, and. not the Minister against the Natives. You have also seen the Minister representing the Native race in the Cabinet, the friend of the Native race —one of yourselves. He will now say a few words to you in your own tongue, perhaps you will understand him better than you have understood me. I thank you very kindly for the welcome you have accorded us. Wiremu Pomare (to Mr Carroll, after Mr. Carroll had delivered his address) What you said just now about our having no grievances is not correct. All are well aware that we have grievances. The Maoris are still crying out about the laws made in Parliament. We are glad to see you going from house to house and settlement to settlement, and seeing what grievances we have. Although we see you here to-day we are unable to express our opinions here, as we told you. We intend

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to discuss all these at a great meeting to be held in Gisborne, and to which we have arranged to send delegates. Conclusions might be arrived at there to insure that laws will be framed for the promotion of amicable relations between the two races. If the laws that you are going to make in future are to be like those you have made in the past, the Natives will not cease crying. You must not run away with the idea that we do not appreciate your coining here to-day I say we value your appearance here to-day, and, as I said before, we will try and frame laws ourselves, and then ask Parliament to ratify them. Even though the Premier does not attend this meeting at Gisborne, we request that you, as the representative of the Natives, should attend there and hear all that is to be said, and try and help us to frame laws. Even though your chief, the Premier should stay behind, we wish to see you there. You have stated that you have heard all the grievances in southern districts. Well, if those grievances are allayed we should certainly be relieved in parallel cases. The Premier There was rain on the hills, now when the sun shines it disappears. There was a mist when my friend last spoke. The mist that existed was, that I was of opinion you had no grievances. I was told you had nothing to say, and hence came to the conclusion you were a happy and contented people, and everything was going on well with you. Now the sun has just appeared and dispelled the mist, because he has told me you have grievances. He says I should know these grievances. I am not here amongst you every day how is it possible I should know your grievances ? I cannot know them until you tell them to me. He has only mentioned one, but I have no doubt that there are others, and if they have not been mentioned, the responsibility rests with you, and your not telling them to me when I am here. I can only come to the conclusion that they are not very serious. Now, you are entirely wrong when you say that we have listened to the other Natives, and when we relieve their grievances it will redress yours. I say you are entirely wrong in that. Now, they have differed in the different districts as we came along. For instance, the Mauiapotos had a grievance, with which we have treated to their satisfaction. The Natives in the Waikato had a grievance of an entirely different character and they wanted special relief. Now the Ngapuhi and Ngatihine are degenerating if they desire their grievances to be made known through other tribes. The Ngapuhi are retrograding very much if they are to be spoken for by the other tribes. lam sorry I shall have to say so when Igo back to Wellington. I shall have to say that amongst the Ngapuhi they have no speakers to make their wishes known to the Government, that as regards their oratory they are failing. Why, the early speakers of renown came from Ngapuhi. The Maoris can always make their grievances known to the Government. I must still adhere to the opinion that your grievances are not very great. Perhaps after I have gone, you will discuss matters amongst yourselves, and if later on you submit to me what you think requires my attention, I shall be glad to deal with it, notwithstanding your present reticence. lam perhaps telling the truth, and you may think lam thought-reading—reading your minds—when I tell you that I think the short notice you had was the means of stopping you from meeting amongst yourselves and deciding what you should say, and you have therefore taken up a negative position. It is the same cry " Taihoa, taihoa" (Wait, wait) The world goes on and the Natives are disappearing, and still the cry, " Taihoa, taihoa." The time will come when you will find this is a mistake, and the sooner you recognise this fact and the position you are in the better We have met as friends, and I trust we part as friends let it be always so. Thanking you for your welcome and wishing you all well, I will now take my departure. Waimate. The Premier and party left Kawakawa for Waimate with the intention of holding a large meeting there. On arrival at Waimate, the Natives stated to the Premier that they had only a few local matters to bring before him there, and would reserve all their larger questions relating to their grievances to be discussed at Waima on the following Monday As he was there, they would, however, bring a few local matters under his notice. Hare Matenga said they were very pleased indeed to see the Premier and to welcome him. One of the greatest grievances they had was the dog-tax. It is not that they wished to evade the tax in any way. They had all agreed there to pay that tax , in fact, they did not wish to evade any laws at all. All their prayer was that the price should be reduced from ss. to 2s. 6d. per year. They sent a petition to the County Council last month to this effect—that they agreed to pay the dog-tax. In 1892 there were advertisements out saying that the place to get the collars was at Kawakawa and Eussell. They went like men and got the collars at those distant places. In 1893 the County Council said they could get the collars at the telegraph-office. They all went there and got the collars, and that is where they still get them. Some had paid and some had not paid. He had already said that the petition set forth that they did not wish to evade the law, but simply wished to have the tax reduced. The petition was worded in this way : —lf the police took the collars to each individual house the price was to be 55., and if they went to the office and got them themselves they should only pay half-price. The Council would not agree to this. Pene Taui Salutations to the Premier, Mr. Carroll, and all the gentlemen present ! I stand here now and say that I am very pleased to see you, and that I second and indorse the sentiments of the last speaker I have nothing to say to you on this day, as it has been already stated that Monday shall be the day for talking, at Waima. That day we and the others will address you on our several grievances, and I stand here now simply to indorse the remarks of Wiremu Katene and Hare Matenga in reference to the dog-tax. Our prayer to you is that the tax should be reduced from ss. to 2s. 6d. Now, another question I give you notice of is with reference to the Native Land Acquisition Act. We do not know whether that is law at the present time. Some say it is and some say it is not. The Premier said, —I have listened very patiently and with great pleasure to what has been brought under my notice to-day What struck me was the courteous language and respectful 4-G 1.

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demeanour in which you have introduced your subjects. Your manner has been respectful and sincere. In the first place, lam pleased you agree with me that the best thing to do would be to leave the larger questions to be dealt with at Waima. I will first deal with the personal grievances— those in regard to the land. You speak of the improper action of others and of the action taken by the Government. Now, this is the first time I have heard anything in reference to these lands. In dealing with land the Government must be very careful lest injury be done to others. I will cause inquiry to be made how the Government became possessed of the land to which you refer It was not explained to me, or any reason given, why the Government have taken it. As a rule, the Government is very careful, and it does not without just cause take the land of the Natives. If a mistake has arisen the Government is only too glad to set it right. If the land was confiscated and taken as a matter of right by the Government, then the Government remains in possession. It is somewhat difficult, from the meagre explanation, to know the exact position of the case. It would be better for you to reduce the whole question to writing. Now, touching the dispute of Taurau, evidently the dispute is of many years' standing, and ought to have been dealt with by the Court. Now, there are many cases where the same parties own an interest in land, and when the land is going through the Court some of them hold aloof. Then when the land has gone to others they complain, because, they say, they have been unjustly dealt with. When land is going through the Court they ought to see to their own interest. If not, the blame rests with themselves. It has been stated that one-half of this particular land has been sold. Taurau got one-half of the money and the other half rests with the Government. Ido not think it is at all possible now to go back upon the original transaction. It is only a question of whether the right person got the money —whether Taurau is entitled to £400 or £200, or how much he is entitled to. You say he did not get the whole of the money —that some of it is still in the hands of the Government. That we can find out hereafter. If you went to law, and the whole thing was to go through the Court again, perhaps the £400 would disappear You would then be in a worse position than you are in now, because the land would be gone and the money too. I will at once make inquiries into the matter and see whether there are any good grounds for the complaint or otherwise. Now I come to the other question, and that is the question of the County Council and the dog-tax. In some places where I come from both the Europeans and Natives have to pay 10s. for every dog. Am I right when you tell me the dog-tax here is ss.?—(Yes.) —Now I can tell you how you can reduce the tax. It is in your own hands. If you only keep half the dogs that you have you would only have to pay one-half of what you do at present in the way of taxes. I would rather see more pickaninnies about the Maori pas than dogs. There is no tax to pay the County Council for pickaninnies. The taxing of dogs is a matter which rests with the County Council and not with the General Government. If I found the county was charging you more than they charge the European, I would at once step in and say it was unfair, and I would not permit it but if they only charge you the same as they are charging the European, then the law and the Government cannot interfere. The only question now is for you to ask yourselves whether these dogs are useful and are required by you, or are simply kept as luxuries. In former days your forefathers required some dogs, because a dog was an essential necessity for procuring food, but when they are kept for pleasure and not for use, then it is a question how many you can afford to keep and pay for As I told you at the start, in other places they are charged 10s. and in this district you are only charged 55., consequently you only pay one-half of what is paid in other parts of the colony That brings me now to the question as to the convenience of taking out the collars—whether the county consults your convenience as to where you can get these collars. Your representations on that head will be referred to the County Council. Another question raised was as you contribute largely to the government of the county you think you should have some representation in the County Council. There is nothing to prevent a ratepayer, whether Native or European, from becoming a member of the County Council if he can get enough people to vote for him. I would very much like, myself, to see the Natives represented in the County Council, they might comprehend the position of things better than they do now. But it is not the fault of the law that they are not there—it is because they do not try to get into the County Council. I feel sure that if they were to get into the County Council it would do good, and I know that amongst them they have men well capable of holding a seat in the County Council, and assisting in the local government of the country Now, you have representatives in Parliament, and the matters you have brought under my notice are matters which are fair questions to be brought before Parliament. You may rest assured any representations made to Parliament on your behalf will be fairly considered by the representatives ■of both races. In the meantime there is only one law Your forefathers, by the Treaty of Waitangi, agreed to cede the rights of government to the Crown. That sovereignty reigns supreme, and it is your protection just as much as it is the protection of the Europeans. If it were not for that protection, yourselves, your property, and your lives would not be safe. It is the only protection you have and your forefathers saw it was in your interest that that should be done, or otherwise you would be the same as the aboriginal natives in other countries —you would disappear from the face of the earth. You should always obey the law and assist in maintaining the law, because by doing that you are assisting in maintaining yourselves and your interests. So long as you do that you will always have the good wishes of myself and those who govern the country; and I beg to assure you that if I found any one trying to impose upon you, treating you unjustly in violation of the law I would protect you the same as the Europeans are protected , and in doing so I am only carrying out the solemn terms of the Treaty of Waitangi. You are. here to-day as free men laying your grievances before me just as the Europeans do. Now, my advice to you is always to obey the law, and, if you have any grievances, submit them to the Government. If any injustice is done to you, just write to the Government, and I pledge you that you will receive just treatment. With regard to the Native Land Acquisition Act, I will discuss that with you at Waima. I wish

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to take every trouble to familiarise myself with the condition, thought, and circumstances of the Maori people, and that is the reason why, with the Hon. J Carroll, my colleague, I am visiting the various Native districts and meeting the people face to face. The Hon. J. Carroll addressed the Natives in their own language, laying stress on the inevitable changes that were coming about, and the absolute necessity there was for the Maoris to grow with the times like their European brethren. He said they would have to divorce themselves from the past, and enter into this matter-of-fact age unimpeded by the traditions and prejudices of old times. He could assure them, from what he knew, that his colleague, who was both Premier and Native Minister, was only too willing to render them every assistance in his power, in the endeavour to raise the whole Native question from out the unhappy state it had lain in so long, to a clearer and healthier atmosphere, conferring great and lasting benefits upon all. The party took horses from Kawakawa next morning, and arrived about 5 p.m. at Taheke, six miles from the place of meeting. Stayed the night, and on the following morning proceeded to "Waima. On arrival within two miles of the settlement the sound of the Native powhiri of welcome was heard, and about thirty women, attired in all the colours of the rainbow, met the Premier, and by a sort of Sir-Roger-de-Coverley movement ranged themselves fifteen on each side of him. The party was then reinforced by about thirty men, who in their turn divided and took up a position on either side of the luahines. Thus escorted the party was led to the place of meeting. Here about two hundred men had formed a square the Premier, Hon. Mr. Carroll, and party had to shake hands with each individual. This in itself was tiring work, independent of the time taken up by some of the party rubbing noses. They have a large and substantial meeting-house here, and thither the party was conducted. It was a sight never to be forgotten to see the old greyheaded warriors who had fought at Ohaeawai, Buapekapeka, and Korarareka. The Premier stated that he wished to see the men, women, and children, and all that were there. The platform was occupied by Hon. Mr Seddon, Hon. Mr Carroll Mr Mueller, Commissioner of Crown Lands, Mr Clendon, E.M., Mr Hone Heke, M.H.E. for the district, Mr Goffe, the Interpreter, Mr Gray, representative of the Auckland Star, and the official shorthand-writer, Mr Andrews. Hone Mohi Tawhai said, —Salutations to you! Allow me to express the pleasure we feel in having a visit from the Prime Minister of the colony I assure you your presence here to-day is welcome. I have nothing more to say, as I think you are bound to time. I will therefore make room for other speakers. Ec te Tai said, —Salutations to you, the Premier, Mr Carroll, and all the guests here present! Welcome to this place ! This is Waima. It is one of the renowned places on the Hokianga Eiver. This is one of the places where the gospel was first preached to our old people. Come and see us, the remnant of a people. All the old chiefs have gone. The only ones to welcome you now are the hills. The large hill of Puketeri is all that is left. It listens to what you have to say (Song of welcome.) All the seas welcome you , the mountains welcome you. Enough—that is all I have to say Kahawai Welcome, welcome, welcome ! (Here there was an incantation having reference to the hill, or mountain, of Puketeri.) Hapakuku Moetara said, —Salutations to the Premier, Mr Carroll, and all the guests here present 1 My heart is glad to see you here to-day You .are one of the first Premiers who has ever dared the dangers of Hokianga to come and speak here. We welcome you. Bring the ideas you have in your heart and explain them to us to-day Come and listen to what we have to say We wish you long life and happiness. Hori Haehae Salutations to you, the Premier, and your colleague Mr Carroll! Come and see the chiefs of Hokianga and the chiefs of Taiamai. These are the representatives of the chiefs that are now dead. All the words of our ancestors which were left behind are now in our possession. We give you welcome. Salutations ! Hori Eiiwhi Welcome here to Hokianga, so that you might see the remainder of the great tribe or nation that is still under the guidance and reign of the Queen. In days gone by we always had a visit from the Governor, but this time he has not come. Welcome here, so that you can explain to us that which you have in your bosom. We bid you welcome. Iraia te Toi (chief of Waimamaku): Salutations to the Premier !We have had notice of your coming here, and that is the reason we have met to welcome you. (Incantation.) " The moon and the stars both shoot and glimmer," &c. This incantation means that it is no matter with what idea the Government may come here, we are all determined to go together—that is, pull together It is an incantation we used to sing when going forth on the warpath. (Wiremu indorsed the sentiments expressed in the incantation by repeating it.) Eaniera Wharerau Salutations to you, the Premier, and your colleague the Hon. Mr. Carroll! These people that are met here welcome you from their hearts. But, of course, you have some reason for coming here, and we will, perhaps, be able to listen to and appreciate that reason. This welcome that we offer you is our hospitality to you as the chief representative of New Zealand, and is according to Maori custom, and has nothing to do with what we might say afterwards. Welcome to yourself, your colleague, and all the guests present. Wiremu Teira Welcome ! You are the people, the representatives of New Zealand there-, fore we give you the greatest welcome we can possibly afford. Welcome to all these parts ! I am glad to see you travelling over the country to see the wants of your nation. This is simply a welcome ; we have business to attend to and cannot lose time, as your time will probably be short. This is a welcome of love from our ancestors and a greeting to you. Wiremu Katene said, —I think, now there has been sufficient welcome. Hone Heke, M.H.E., said, addressing the Premier, —You see before you all the old people and the young. These are all the representatives of the great tribes, so you will be perfectly justified in ■saying you have met the representatives of these two tribes —the tribes of Ngapuhi and Te Earawa

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The Premier said, —To you of the Native race here assembled, men, women, and children, I give you friendly greeting, and that greeting comes from over six hundred thousand Europeans in this country. I speak for them. We do not forget the time when the Native race was as plentiful and as numerous as we now find the trees that represent them, and that we the pakehas were few You then behaved kindly to the Europeans, and you gave them a welcome to your land and treated them as brothers. Now we find the position reversed we find the pakehas are growing more numerous every day, and we find the Native race is passing away from the face of the earth, therefore it behoves those who wish them well to go amongst them, speak to them, and endeavour if possible to preserve them. It is painful for me to have to admit the fact, which you have stated in your words of welcome, that the hills are all that are left to welcome me , that your fathers have passed away, and that you are a remnant only of a noble race. It is not yet too late, however; there is here before me now a representative gathering, and I think, if we go the right way about it, you may still increase in numbers, in greatness, and prosperity , for I wish you and the Europeans to live side by side, and all be happy and contented in this beautiful country of your ancestors which you inhabit. There is room for all. It is not the wish of the Government, it is not the wish of the pakeha, it is not the wish of our noble Queen under whom we serve, and whom we love, that you should degenerate or pass away When the Treaty of Waitangi was signed the Government of the day promised you protection your forefathers saw that protection was necessary, and in the interest of yourselves. It is the boast of all who live under the British flag that there is freedom, and each has his liberty The Queen is the mother of us all, of both races, no matter what colour We are her children. She is pleased when she finds we are prospering, contented, and increasing. It is not her wish, neither is it the wish of those who serve under her, that your race should pass away and be a thing of the past and her representative, the Governor, when I arrived in Auckland a few days ago, expressed to me the very great pleasure he felt at my going through the country speaking to the Natives personally and inquiring as to their wants. I feel sure that your voices will be heard across the sea, and that your Queen, whom you acknowledge, love, and respect, will hear the words and feel the loyalty shown by her subjects now assembled in this room. She will be pleased to learn that you obey her laws, and that you are her liege subjects, that you desired to do that which is right and in conformity with the words of your forefathers. Words have been spoken to-day expressing regret at the absence of her representative, the Governor, but, on his behalf, I must state that he has not been long in the colony, although during the time he has been here he has endeavoured, so far as his time and the business he has had to transact has permitted, to visit the different parts of the colony and I hope before the term of his office expires that he will stand as I do here and speak to you as Her Majesty's representative. As his chief adviser as the Prime Minister, speaking as I speak and wish to speak to-da,y on behalf of both races, rest assured that whatever takes place shall be made known to Her Majesty's representative. I shall tell him of the welcome given me to-day by the two great tribes mentioned, the Ngapuhi and the Te Earawa. Believe me that before I decided to visit the Natives in the different parts of the North Island—before I left Wellington—in fact, from the first time I entered Parliament—my heart has always warmed to the Native race. I have met many in the number of years that I have been in Parliament —from 1879 until the present time I have sat there continuously—and I have seen many representatives of the Native race in the New Zealand Parliament. I have listened to their pleadings on behalf of their fellow-countrymen, and I have been aware of the laws that have been passed to alleviate the condition of the Natives. To me it was a great pleasure that the son of an old friend, who was once a representative of the Native race in Parliament, should be the first to welcome me. I feel sure that had Mohi Tawhai senior been in good health, and could have been here, nothing would have given me greater joy than to have shaken hands with him. Now, lam here to-day, and shall speak plainly to you. I shall not hide my thoughts. I know a mist has overhung you and your destinies for many years, and I am here to-day to endeavour to remove that mist. When friends meet, and both are troubled in mind, an interchange of thoughts, open words, and speaking plainly to each other gives light in itself. To use words merely to dissemble, to disguise your inmost thoughts, will not tend to improve your condition, but if there is a free interchange, if you tell me your thoughts, tell me what you believe is against you and against your race, I am prepared to listen, and act towards you as a friend. Now, when there is trouble with the pakehas, when they have grievances, Ministers go to see them, and discuss matters with them ; they ascertain their wishes, and legislation is introduced to give effect to what is considered for their good. So we are now treating the Native race the same as we treat the Europeans. You have here to-day the Prime Minister, who has come to give you friendly greeting, and to hear what you have to say We want you to understand this that the Parliament which rules supreme is open to the Native race as it is open to the pakeha. It is in that Parliament that they are on the one floor and the one plane. There is no distinction , and it is from that Parliament that I honestly believe the only redress of a permanent character can be given to the Native race. It has been said—l have heard it from the mountain-tops, from the lakes, I have heard it on the hills, and have heard the wail in the valley—that the Natives cannot obtain justice from the Parliament. So far as lam concerned Ido not admit that, but in order to advance from our present position we must set aside the past and commence afresh. The Parliament is open to you. Any measures that you desire to be introduced must go before that Parliament. So long as they are couched in respectful language—so long as they deal with subjects that affect your interests—that Parliament is open to you as well as to the Europeans. The special representation which was given to you by those who framed our laws was not given to you simply as a myth, it was not given to the Native race to be played with , it was given in the belief that those representing the Native race in the New Zealand Parliament would be able to introduce measures, and help to pass such laws, as would be beneficial both to the Native and European races. Now, the Native rac&

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has not done justice in the past to their own representatives. I have known the Natives in the House doing their very best—Mohi Tawhai, Karaitiana, and others—to further the claims of their people. You have now in my friend Hone Heke a very fair representative one who, lam sure, will represent your interests but in the past, while your representatives in Parliament have been doing their best for you, hostile meetings have been held outside, and confidence has been withdrawn from your representatives, preventing them from doing you any good. I heard to-day from, the song, which was explained to me, that you are a united band, pulling along together in your own interests. Then, I say, I am pleased to find that it is so but it has not been so in the past. You know the words, " A kingdom divided against itself cannot stand." You have heard of the fable of the bundle of sticks, when the father said to the sons, "Draw a stick from the bundle and try and break it , and they broke it. Now," he said, put the sticks all together in the bundle, and try to break them." They tried, but they could not do it. I say, therefore, that if you are divided amongst yourselves you will be like the stick—become broken, but if you keep together you will not be so broken. Now, I am going to advise you to meet together, come to conclusions as to what you believe to be in your interest, then submit the same through your mouthpiece, your member When the elections were proceeding there may have been those amongst you who considered that others would have made better representatives, and may have voted for those who are not now representatives—voted for the defeated candidates. But when once the election is over, whatever the majority have decided, that is the selection for the time being—for the three years. You must therefore look upon the sitting member for the time being as the mouthpiece of all, that when he speaks he speaks for the Native race and for the district which he has the honour to represent, and it is his duty if he is conscientious and keeps the oath he takes when sworn in as the sitting member for the district, to set aside all feeling against those who have opposed him. He represents the interests of every man, woman, and child in the district. If he does that he will earn the confidence of all those who trusted him. Those who voted for him will say, "We are pleased with our representative", those who voted against him will say, "After all, he proves a good representative he has done his duty towards us " , and hence confidence will be established. But if he is in Wellington endeavouring to do what is right towards you, and there are others at home who are calling meetings and thwarting him in all he is trying to do, then you will be like the boys who took the sticks from the bundle, you will be in a worse position than you were before. Have your meetings in every hamlet, have your meetings at every pa, and at your meetings let your educated young men, your sage old men, those who have in the past governed and assisted in your government —let them meet together, let them discuss that which you believe to be in the interest of your race and the colony in general, and, having come to conclusions, let your member be fortified with those conclusions, so that when he stands in his place in the House he can say, "After careful consideration these are the conclusions at which our people have arrived, this is what our people want at the hands of Parliament." This is what the pakehas do ■ they hold their meetings, they have their associations, they discuss each question affecting both races, they come to conclusions, and the members are the mouthpieces of the pakeha and those who have held those meetings. It is with that object in view that lam here in person. I want to remove the false impression that has gained ground here year by year that there was no redress for the Natives from the New Zealand Parliament. I want them to believe that the Parliament is their friend if they go the right way to work—that there are members there who are prepared and willing to assist in removing the grievances that exist with the Natives at the present time. How is it possible to remove these grievances when we do not know what they are ? Or, if one set of Natives will say one thing and another will say differently,—we find them disorganized, we find them unsatisfied as to what they want, we find them quarrelling between themselves, —how can we do anything for a people who act that way ? Therefore it behoves you, before it is too late, to consider your position. Your chiefs, your rangatiras, those who wish you well, must see that year after year you are growing smaller and smaller in numbers you are gradually passing away and not as your forefathers did, who lived to a good round old age, but you seem to pass away in the prime of life, and your little ones seldom reach maturity. It is painful to me to feel that that is so , but nevertheless the sore is there, and it must be healed. We desire you to live to the good old age your forefathers did. Then, I say, help me, help yourselves , let us help each other I have thus spoken so far because you say you expected me to say a few words and open my mind to you. I have done so so far plainly to you later on in the day I will indicate in what direction relief can he granted of a permanent character I want first of all to have your confidence, and I want, by the few words I have said, to show you that I am desirous of doing that which is in your interest, and not only in your interest but in the interest of the pakehas and all of you as a whole. lam not amongst you to-day just for the purpose of listening, and, after listening, to forget what you have said. Were Ito do that, I should disgrace the very high position that I occupy, and it would not meet with the approval of the pakehas. I should not meet you as I have met you to-day shaken hands with you and wished you " Tena koe ! if I desired to do you a wrong. I should not be here and partake of your food if I had in my heart thoughts which might be to your injury I should not listen to the words of welcome from the chiefs and old men here, representatives of the tribes and chiefs of the hapus, I should not be a man worthy of the name of man , —and more especially the first man in the Colony of New Zealand—did I ever for a moment wish you ill. When I heard your incantations and songs of welcome they pleased me very much. I knew you were paying., me very high compliments, and that you welcomed me as the Premier of the colony and as a likely friend to the Maori people. I am prepared to listen to w T hat you have to say and when I have heard you I shall then be able to explain matters which probably you may not have a correct idea of. In some matters you may be perfectly correct as regards the bearing of the laws upon you and your interests. then, I say let me know how these laws bear unjustly upon you, and 5—G 1

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I will tell you how far we ca.ll go, and I will tell you what may be in your interests in respect to the same. But above all things I want to remove the impression that has gone abroad, and that is, that the Natives cannot get justice from the Europeans and from Parliament. You have taken up a negative position hitherto, and in taking up that negative position pressure is becoming so strong behind the Government—the changes coming over the country are so great—that unless you consider your situation at once and act quickly in the right direction disaster will be bound to follow and you will be responsible for it. To stand still any longer means to recede. You must progress , we not do want to see you recede, we do not want you to be wiped, as it were, from off the face of the earth—not by pestilence, by sickness, not by any action of the Europeans, but by yourselves. You yourselves are day by day the cause of the reduction in your numbers. We must go to the root of the disease. You want hope, you want something to look forward to —some ideal. To you at the present time all is dark, all is blank, there is no hope in the breasts of the rising generation of the Native race. Where are the cultivations to-day compared with what they were a few years ago ? Ask your chiefs to compare the present condition with what it was when they were youths. The next session of the New Zealand Parliament will be one of the most important that has ever taken place in New Zealand as affecting the Native race. We say that faith must be kept, that the solemn pledge that was given on both sides when the Treaty of Waitangi was signed must be kept. We say the Treaty of Waitangi must be maintained, and that the present condition of affairs must not continue further I thank you very heartily for the welcome you have given me, and lam sure that what takes place here to-day will have a favourable bearing on all concerned. In other places the Natives have told me their troubles, like one who is about to face the world and is anxious to travel on the right road, they have confided in me. Although grievances differ in one district and another, Ido not find them irreconcilable altogether. If you tell me your troubles I shall then be able to compare your grievances with what I have heard elsewhere, I shall hear from you what you believe will redress those grievances , and when I go back to Wellington and prepare legislation for next session, which I hope will not run counter with your suggestions, something might be done under which the colony will prosper lam not boasting when I tell you we have at the present time the strongest Government that was ever in New Zealand, and with that great strength we desire to be just and fair to the Native race. We are the first Government since 1877 that has had a Native representative in the Cabinet. There is my friend Mr Carroll, one of yourselves, and, without at all flattering my colleague, he is one who from his first start in Parliament has ever tried to put the Natives on an equal footing with the Europeans, and endeavoured to pass laws which would have the same effect on both. We have his assistance therefore in Cabinet, and have him here to-day to assist us. You can speak to him like a brother, one who has the interest of the Native race at heart. In his face, in his thoughts, and in his form there are the two races united. You do not find the two bloods quarrelling. When you look at his person you see a wholesome blend , the two races are there working in harmony together It shows that the European and the Native race can mix with satisfactory results, and the product of such union is apparently free from sickness of body or sickness of mind. We may differ when speaking to each other later on, but you know my wishes towards you are good, and your wishes towards me and my race are also good, and if we exchange thoughts as men desirous of doing good, benefit must result therefrom. We want everything scanned by the light of day, and by the intelligence of the country, nothing done in darkness, nothing done in secret. What we do here to-day the world will know of just as well as I shall, and these proceedings will be read by the people of both races. I shall probably determine that what takes place here shall be translated into the Native language, and circulated through the country I shall conclude for the present by thanking you for the hearty welcome you have accorded me. (Loud cheers.) The Hon. Mr Carroll then addressed the meeting at great length, and in a most earnest and eloquent speech urged the Natives to take the advice of his colleague the Premier, and endeavour to thresh out something of a practical nature which would be of advantage to all. He was well received, and loudly cheered at the conclusion. An adjournment was now made to a large house, where a capital lunch was provided. The Native women were untiring in their efforts to make everything pass off well. Over two hundred sat down, and, considering the short notice, it is marvellous how they could have produced such a repast, and it went to show that the Native lady can on such occasions rise equal to her European sister On resuming, Wiremu Katene said, —This is the first time we have had the pleasure of hearing members of the Government address us at such length and so ably The people all here present have some matters to place before you to-day, but since we have had dinner I hear some of them are lowspirited at the prospect of there not being sufficient time at your disposal to hea.r all they have to say. lam now speaking for them. I think we should be able to dispose of all the business this afternoon. If so, well and good, but if we are unable to get through the whole of our business this afternoon we request that you will stay here to-night. We have several questions to discuss here to-day, and unless there is time given we shall not be able to go into the details. I should like to hear the Premier state whether he can stay so as to get through these matters. The Premier It is no use my coming here and going away unless we have business done that is satisfactory to both. lam not like a shooting star—simply seen for a few moments and then disappear (Cheers.) I am not afraid to travel even in the night. .We will go on with the business, and you will be the best judges whether we have gone through it or not. If we go to work like business men and confine ourselves to business we shall do some good. To save time we' will proceed, and if I can get through to-night, well and good. I am prepared to stay late and work late , and if I get at Eawene at daylight to-morrow that will suit me. lam prepared to work all night. Pene Taui said, —The first question is this I would like you to answer the question that I asked you at Waimate- —that is, in reference to the Native Land Purchase and Acquisition Act.

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The Premier Do I understand from you that you have not had the Act, and that you have not read it and do not understand it ? Pene Taui The only question to answer is, Why is it passed into law ? Some have received it, some have not. The Premier The Native Land Purchase and Acquisition Act was passed last year It received the assent of the Governor on 6th October, 1893. When the Act was going through Parliament, a number of Natives, "who held a meeting at Wellington, expressed a wish for a postponement of the Act, so that the Natives should have an opportunity of knowing its provisions. Therefore it only came into force absolutely on the Ist January last. It has, therefore, been law since the Ist January, and is in operation wherever the Government desire and can effect a Proclamation. So far the Government have not put any Proclamation over the land. We have had applications from Natives to have their land put under the Proclamation, but I thought that all the Natives in different parts of the colony should be fully acquainted with the law before we acted under it. It would not be fair for one district to have an advantage over another There are some Natives who might object to having a law brought into force and a Proclamation issued affecting their land when they did not know its provisions or anything about it. The principles of the measure are briefly these By the Treaty of Waitangi the Natives agreed that all lands were to be sold to the Government. When your forefathers agreed to that, they no doubt intended that the Government should pay them a fair value for the land. There has always been in my mind a doubt as to whether the Natives got a fair value for their land, because the Government generally waited until the necessities of the Natives forced them to sell, then, being the only purchasers, the land was bought at a less price than its fair value. Now, there were no means or ways of settling the disputes between the Government and the Natives as to what was the fair value. The Act we passed removed that difficulty and it also facilitates the business of dealing with waste lands. The great trouble in the past has been that Natives would sell their land, but, as a rule, they never completed the transfer and the expenses of partition came upon the Natives who had not sold. Where the interest was small, the expenses of survey and putting it through the Court ate up the land, and the Natives got little or nothing. Now, by the Act of last session this is obviated —a better system is introduced. A majority of the owners of a block, if they come to a decision to sell, say to the Government, "We will sell or allow you to lease this land for us " ; and there is an independent Board, consisting of the Commissioner of Crown Lands, the Commissioner of Taxes, the Surveyor-General, the Native member representing the district, and a member appointed by the Judge of the Native Land Court. In this selection there is an independent Board of impartial persons, who decide whether or not a fair value is offered for the land. Of course, if the owners offer to sell they fix their own price!;; and, so long as the Government consider it a fair price, and the Board also consider it so, there should be no trouble. It is very much the same as the Land for Settlement Act which applies to Europeans who desire to sell their land to the Government. Under this law, if two-thirds of the Native owners do not desire to sell to the Government, or allow the Government to lease for them, they have power under sections 26 and 27 of the Act, to submit the land to public auction. It is sold by public auction under the same law and provisions as though the Government were selling Crown lands. Generally speaking, these are the main provisions of the Act passed, and it is the most liberal law that has ever been passed in the colony affecting the Native race. If there are any other provisions of the Act that require explanations, I shall be only too glad to give them to you. I have a copy of the Act here. I have only now given you the general provisions of the Act. It would shorten business if I confine myself to answering any questions you desire to ask. Pene Taui (addressing the tribes) The meeting has heard that this Native Land Purchase and Acquisition Act is now law We have the Act and have gone carefully through it, and there are some here who can point out the faults we see in the Act. The Premier I shall be very pleased to hear them. We do the same with the Europeans if a law is passed which is defective, our attention is drawn to it, and we make whatever amendments are required. I shall therefore be very pleased to hear any suggestions you have to make as regards amendments in the law that you think necessary Wiremu Komene Tena koe 1 Greeting ! You have already stated that the Native Land Purchase and Acquisition Act is passed into law I will now go into the details ; and in doing so we wish you to give a direct answer to any question we put to you. Has the Governor signed the Act? The Premier Yes. Wiremu Komene Will it not have to go to England ? The Premier It has already received the sanction of the Queen. Wiremu Komene In the preamble to the Bill reference is made to the fact that there are seven million acres of Native land lying idle in the colony There are, I believe, ten million acres of Crown lands in the colony remaining unused. Is it not possible to utilise these Crown lands ? The Premier : The question just submitted is the most simple that has ever been asked. It is quite true that we have nearly ten million acres of Crown lands still unsettled, but we do not settle people upon the bare mountain-top we do not settle them in the river-beds or in the lakes, and it would be quite impossible to utilise the greater portion of these lands for very many years to come. A good deal of the Crown lands in the North Island is blocked for settlement by the Natives. In the South Island we have to devote a large area to the settlement of landless Natives. Then we have had to go and buy land from Europeans so as to put a large number of our population on the land. So short of land in the South Island are we that we have had to pass a law to buy back from the Europeans lands which had already been sold to them. In the North Island there is a large area of the very best land in the country that is unoccupied by Europeans or Natives. It is lying in a state of waste, doing no good to anybody

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Now, it is unreasonable to expect for a moment that in the South Island we should be obliged to ask Parliament to pass a law to force the owners to sell back to the Government, and in the North Island the land should be allowed to remain unutilised. Most of the Crown land in the North, as you are aware, is of a very inferior quality You have always taken care to sell us gum-land. We cannot put people on such land. Pene Taui The Natives have no jurisdiction over the land now The Government can buy where they see fit. Why is the law worded in that way ? The Premier The ownership by the Natives has been ceded by the Crown We have never raised the question, and we have no intention of raising it now but we are following on the lines of the-Treaty of Waitangi in a colonising spirit, when we say that the title to the land must be ascertained, and that the land must be utilised. We have said that a large proportion of the land is suitable for settling people upon, and there is a rapidly-increasing demand for land for settlement purposes. Progress is retarded.—(A voice Kahore.) —I say that settlement is kept back, to the detriment of the Natives themselves. If the land were easily settled, the Natives would get fair value for it. I came through splendid land yesterday There are very many owners to it but one single owner will not go and improve that land and make it productive, because, if he makes improvements all the others share with him. The consequence is that the land remains untouched as it is. There are six hundred thousand acres north of Auckland not through the Court. So long as the land remains like that, with no owners ascertained, it means that no one will go near it and the longer the titles are unascertained the greater the danger to the Natives, and the grea.ter the difficulty in ascertaining the titles hereafter Hence I say the Government have come to the conclusion that it is necessary this state of affairs must come to an end. If you say the law has been defective because of the large expense of the Court in ascertaining the titles, that is a good ground for complaint, and it is right you should ask the Government to remedy it. Last year ten thousand people came into the colony more than went out of it therefore you will understand the great pressure which is being brought to bear on the Government, and you will understand the very great danger to the Native owners if they permit things to remain much longer as they are in fact, I tell you plainly speaking for the Government, and speaking for both races, that it is impossible to allow things to remain much longer as they have been. There was nothing stated in the preamble of the Bill which you have read but what is absolutely true, and if I could take you down to the South Island, or over parts of the North Island, and show you the general condition of the country you would come back convinced that what I have told you is absolutely true. Are you cultivating and improving the land? No , because you are uncertain —you do not know what to do so that the sooner every one knows what is his own, and can do something with it, the better for him. I hope, therefore, you will consider my answer as regards the preamble satisfactory I have told you the truth—there is the law Wiremu Komene One section here, section 3, gives power to the Governor to remove any Maori Commissioner Why should he be singled out ? The Premier There will only be a revocation where the Commissioner has misbehaved himself. The power is used as we have it in many Acts of Parliament. It is never used when a Commissioner exercises independent judgment and does what is right but if a Commissioner was to do something wrong—misbehave himself, break the law and misconduct himself—on account of such bad behaviour the Governor would remove him. That is my answer to that. Wiremu Komene When once a Proclamation is put over a block of land by the Government and the Natives do not wish to sell to the Government, that Proclamation shall remain in force three years. Why is that ? The Premier The answer to this is a very simple one, the same as the other There must be a time given when there is a difficulty in the minds of the owners as to whether or not they will sell. But you have never read section 26 If two-thirds of the owners desire to sell the land by public auction, all they have got to do is to signify the same to the Government, then it is sold or leased by public tender Now compare this with the previous law You talk about three years. are you aware that under the old law the owners of that land could take £5 from the Government and the Proclamation could stop there for twenty years? Are you aware that by the Treaty of Waitangi, under what is known as the prescriptive right, you could do nothing with your lands except through the Government? As compared with the previous law, you will therefore see, at all €>vents, that the fullest time that a Proclamation can be exercised is three years that if at any time two-thirds of the owners desire to dispose of the land, they can do so under sections 26 and 27 of the Act. I say this Act is in your favour If you want to go back to the provision contained in the Treaty of Waitangi, which saj"S that the Natives shall not sell to anybody except the Government, and that shall apply to all lands, if you want to perpetuate the law that any one who takes £5 absolutely ties up the land until the Government have bought—if you want that law, say so. I myself do not wish to do that to y r ou, hence we have made the law more liberal as affecting your lands. The majority can settle the question as to whether or not they will sell or let to the Government. After they have come to a conclusion the Government can withdraw the Proclamation at any time, but the maximum time is three years. I think this explanation should satisfy you that this clause is a very liberal clause as compared with the previous legislation. Wiremu Komene Why is it, in the case where the Maoris fail to make their appointment to the Board, a Judge of the Supreme Court can make the appointment instead ? The Premier This matter was debated at great length, and the conclusion arrived at was that no person holding a position in the colony would give so much confidence to the Native race as a Judge of the Supreme Court, because he is beyond all politics and beyond all parties, and grave complaints have been made to the Government in the past that the trustees who have been appointed have not done their duty This only applies to minors—where persons are not of age.

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It is only in those cases where they failed to appoint that the Judge is called in. If you think there is any other person that would act more impartially than a Judge of the Supreme Court you had better mention him to me to-day That is of little or no moment to the Government. All we want to do is to get some person who would act fairly and use judgment in dealing with so important a question. Wiremu Komene If the owners of any land under Crown grant or memorial of ownership are inclined to sell to the Crown, what provision is there for the dissentients, or those who do not wish to sell to the Government ? The Premier The provision is that they will get their share of the proceeds just the same. It is the same with all the laws we pass—the majority pass them. I might ask you the same sort of question—namely what is to be done with those persons who voted against Hone Heke ? They threw their votes away for the time being, although they will have an opportunity of voting again when the proper time comes. We are following out a well-established law that the'fmajorities must rule but there is a remedy for you outside that, and that remedy is under section 26. If one-third of the objectors join with the majority and make two-thirds, they can withdraw it altogether from the Proclamation, and have it sold by auction, and bj that means they will get the market value, which cannot be less than the Government offered. Wiremu Komene lam still not very clear Supposing some agree to sell and some do not, how will those who did not agree to sell fare ? The Premier They hold an election by the owners, and can get it removed from sale to the Government and have it sold by auction. Wiremu Komene This want of provision under the Act to provide for the minority who refuse to sell involves the question of individualisation. But is nothing to empower the minority who do not wish to sell ? The Premier The first thing to be done by the Board is to ascertain whether the persons who are the owners of this land have ample land for themselves before any land can be put under offer The principle is there laid down, if the majority of the owners want to dispose of the land, and the Board lays down that the land is wanted for settlement, a minority of two or three persons are not going to stop the settlement of the country—they are not going to stop the majority from disposing of that land. There may be a majority of persons who own, say, two thousand acres, and there may be one person who will say, " I will not sell to the Government, I will keep my ten acres " and he would then force the rest to go to the expense of survey, partition, ascertaining the acreage, and the cutting out of that piece of land. That has been the ruin of any number of Natives in the past, and we do not intend it to be the case in the future. Wiremu Komene Now I come to section 11 Where the owners are disposed to lease their land, for the purposes of this Act such land shall be deemed to be Crown land. That is a point I am asking about, The Premier It is only deemed to be Crown land for the purpose of giving a better title to the purchaser It does not take it from the Natives, but gives a better title—as good as though it was Crown land, and the advantage will be on the side of the Natives, because they will get more money for the land and get more rents. If there is liable to be a dispute amongst the Natives themselves they would get smaller rents. In fact, the one great advantage in this legislation is this that as soon as it is sold or disposed of under this Act it is all treated as Crown land, so as to give a title to the owner or purchaser. We have done this to prevent litigation, and to prevent the Natives from being bled by lawsuits of a most expensive character The absolute ownership still vests with the Natives, but the Crown has the management and disposal of it, and the title, when for the purpose of leasing, is the same as though it was Crown land , and the valuation is made by the Board just the same, so as the land cannot be let for anything below its fair value. Wiremu Komene Then, there is another provision in the Act, empowering the Governor by Proclamation or Order to bring the Native lands before the Native Land Court for adjudication. Is that power given to the Governor in cases where the Natives refuse to have their lands investigated ? The Premier When this land has been proclaimed under the Act, there may be some of the Natives who will stand out. It would be impossible, of course, for the Governor to act unless the title was ascertained. How could the owners hold an election and decide to sell or lease to the Government unless the ownership itself w 7 as decided ? The wrong people might be voted to dispose of land, and might dispose of land, not belonging to them. The title must be ascertained, and that is what this clause is for Wiremu Komene Then why should the Natives be saddled with the cost and expense of such proceedings. The Premier It is the law now It is your land it is in the interest of the owners that the title should be ascertained, and if fiie land is sold the owners get the benefit of it. We do the same with the Europeans. Mr Mueller will tell you we always charge them. You have forgotten section 14 it should be explained to you, because under it no land which is wholly or part of the time a pa, Native village, or cultivation can be proclaimed it does not apply to land so occupied. Wiremu Komene The next question is in reference to section 15. I want an explanation of that section. How is it that when Natives, who have sold to the Government under this, are found to have no other land, certain provisions are mentioned in regard to such Native or Natives? The Premier : You have evidently misunderstood the section it does not propose to take lard from the others and give it to these landless Natives, but it is proposed that they shall not be able to sell, but that their land shall be reserved for them. And the Government may if it is not desired, to get that land out of the block sold, give an amount of land in lieu of any such interest or interests, and it must be 25 acres of first-class land, 50 acres of second-class land, and 100 acres of third-class land for each individual. It would have been a good job if a law like that had been in force before, and we would not have so many landless Natives in the colony

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Wiremu Komene : Eeference is made to section 16. It is unfair that advances should be made to Natives where they have transferred their land for leasing purposes. There is some provision in that section whereby advances can be made from time to time to Natives while such land is undealt with. The land itself will have to pay these advances, and will be the means of the departure of that land from the Native ownership. The Premier The position is very plain here, and I will give you the reason why this was urged upon the Government and Parliament. It was said that the Natives want money, and to prevent their selling the land and getting the money and spending it foolishly, if they were to offer the land for lease, and, while waiting for the land to be taken up, the Government should advance to them some moneys to keep them pending tenants coming forward. You will see how fair this is to you. You have forgotten the most material part, that you can borrow money at 4 per cent. The Government advance you money at 4 per cent. If you had to borrow from the pakehas they would charge you 10 per cent. Now the money is a first charge upon the rents. If you would say to me to-day, " We do not want to get money at 4 per cent, when we offer the land for leasing; we do not want the money at all," we will strike that out. The pakehas in the House fought against this, and the Government had to remain very firm to get this through for you. You see it is only a first charge upon the rents, it has nothing to do with the purchase of the land, unless under section 26 you desire to sell the land by auction, it would then be payable out of the purchase-money Ido not think, myself, that the owners would care to sell to the Government if they could borrow money at 4 per cent. When the local bodies want to borrow money from the Government they have to pay 5 per cent. If the Natives have to borrow money from the moneylender they have to pay 8 and 10 per cent. If you get credit from the storekeeper, he charges you 20 per cent. If you say you do not want the Government to give you credit at 4 per cent., then they will strike it out. I look upon this as the most favourable clause in the Bill to the Natives. Wiremu Komene Why should that provision be made in the Act where it empowers the Government, in paying the proceeds of the land to the Natives, to pay half in debentures, which debentures, with the balance, are to be vested in the Public Trustee ? I am questioning the principle of debentures embodied in the Act, it is under section 17 Why should the money be paid in debentures? I consider the Natives are quite able to look after their interests and any money in case they required the use of the money The Premier The answer to the question is that the Government decided in section 17 that, notwithstanding any of the provisions of this Act, the Governor may, with respect to any capital moneys arising from any land acquired under this Act, direct any portion thereof not exceeding one-half to be paid to the Public Trustee, to be held and applied, both as to capital and income, upon such terms and subject to such conditions for the benefit of the persons entitled as the Governor may think proper, and the Governor may from time to time make or alter such terms and conditions. We have cases in point we have the wretched past before us, and it is no use you standing up there and telling me that the Natives are able to look after their own moneys, because we have paid some thousands of pounds to the Natives. I have just now come through the Moawhanga district a district just beyond Hunterville. We have paid there £90,000, and I have met some of the Natives with not an acre of land, not a pound in their pockets, their money all gone—worse than before they received it. And this section only applies to an amount not exceeding one-half , so that if a Native sold one hundred pounds' worth of land he would receive £50 cash, and, if the Governor thought fit, £50 in debentures. It would be the same as putting £50 in the bank, because you are to receive interest from the Public Trustee; you do not put your money there and get no interest upon it. It is an insurance, and you receive interest on it for all time, yourself and your children after you, and it is not attachable for debt. Do you want the money to go and squander in drink? Is it not better to prevent them squandering their means, and make provision so that they will have something to live upon in their old age ? The land cannot be swallowed, but the money you might " swallow " Every year when the interest conies due you will find it very nice to receive your interest, which cannot be attached. You will say it is a good Government and a good people who made that provision for you. Wiremu Komene Now, with regard to those owners—minors and others—not capable of acting for themselves It would be advisable that their share of the purchase-money or proceeds of the land should be handed over to trustees of the minors. The Premier I cannot agree with you, and I will tell you why We know many cases where money has been handed over to the trustees and the trustees have spent it, and when the minors came of age they had no money The trustees said, " You can take us, but the money is gone. The law of your ancestors who had an interest in the land said the land should belong to him and his heirs. If the land belonged to the parents altogether, then the children would not be in the certificate of title. The parents have no right to get that money and be able to spend it. What is the good of your children being in the certificate of title if you afterwards say the money must go to the parents? Better save trouble and say the certificate of title shall be given only to the parents. But if the land belongs to the children it should be preserved to them until they come of age, and if they then like to give it to the parents, well and good, but it has always been the duty of the State to preserve the interest of those who are not able to look after themselves —I mean the minors and infants. And I will not believe that the Natives have changed their minds, and want to give the proceeds to trustees or parents, so that they can spend the proceeds. The Ngatimaniapotos were very firm in this respect —they would not hear of trustees taking the interests of persons whose lands were purchased by the Government they insisted on every one having his individual rights. I know cases where there are Natives who ought to be very well to do to-day, and through trustees squandering their moneys and getting their names put in the certificates of titles they lost their land and are now paupers. That must not occur again.

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Wiremu Komene I object to the principle of section 24. The Premier You would have to see the Public Trustee, and get the proceeds invested, and under that Act guarantee the interest and principal and insure safety It would be dealing with this land as we find the Europeans do with their money They give the Public Trustee money voluntarily—aye, thousands of pounds to invest. Wiremu Komene As regards section 26—although you have already dealt with it—it is unsatisfactory , particularly the last paragraph, where it gives the Government the right to refuse to remove such Proclamation or not. The Governor may, by Order in Council, give effect to the removal of such Proclamation. The Premier It is compulsory It is this "On a proclamation being revoked the Native owners of the land held under unrestricted title within the area formerly proclaimed may thereafter dispose of the land either by sale or lease, and not otherwise, to any person whomsoever, provided that such land is first submitted to public auction, and that no larger quantity of rural land than six hundred and forty acres of first-class land, or two thousand acres of second-class land, or ten thousand acres of pastoral land, shall be put up for sale by auction in any one lot ; and for this purpose the land shall be first classified by the Waste Lands Board of the district in which it is situate, and thereafter be offered for sale under the provisions of section sixty-seven of ' The Land Act, 1892. " It is imperative. Wiremu Komene Section 31 is unsatisfactory The Premier Will you point out how it is unsatisfactory ? Wiremu Komene The sales of land for cash—how are transfers effected ? The machinery clause and look at section 22—we object to the principle involved therein. With reference to those who do not elect to sell, that they have to give notice of their objection, and failing to give such notice their silence is taken as their consent thereto. If the notice is given they have their remedy by applying for partition in the Native Land Court. That would entail great expense. Both ways are unsatisfactory The Premier You blow hot and you blow cold. You ask a question in regard to section 4 as to what was to become of the Natives who do not want to sell Were they bound by the majority? and that if they were bound by the majority they were unfairly treated. Section 22 gives them an alternative to keep their land and have it partitioned. Why should the minority say, we will neither sell nor lease, nor will we have our own land defined. I say to take up such a position as that is unfair, and will not be tolerated for one moment. They will not go on the land themselves and cultivate it because they do not know which is their land. They will not lease, they will not sell, they will not let any one else go on the land. Practically, they want to keep the land in a state of nature. It is that which has killed more people than have been lost in battle, or who have suffered from disease. It is that which is wiping the Native race from off the face of the earth. If each had their own land and their rights defined they would know what they were doing. But they are now living in an absolute state of poverty, degradation, and hunger. If you take up this negative position you are strangling the Natives by degrees. You will not trust the rangatiras —you will not even trust yourselves , but you take up a negative position. I say you are destroying the tribes, you are destroying the race. If we had this great question settled and the titles to the land ascertained, so that the Natives would know what they were doing, I believe it would be the regeneration of the Native race. They would have comfortable homes and food and good clothes for their children. They would have an assured income, and want would never come to their door It therefore comes back to this—that the few must not injure the many Hone Heke (to the Premier) They say that you have given answers to all their questions about the Act, and that there is no need to go into anything else. It would be better now to refer to the different local grievances. The Premier Perhaps they will discuss amongst themselves the other matters of detail in connection with the Act and send a letter down to me with the details, and I will get them gone into carefully in Wellington ,and give them just as much attention as I would give them to-day Local Grievances. Wiremu Katene You say that if there is nothing more to be said in reference to the Land Act you would like to hear any personal grievances. I quite approve of the suggestion you have made, that we should consider the Act and forward you suggestions whereby our objections could be made clear on the different matters contained therein, and we think we can suggest improvements and alterations. We are quite prepared now to reply to some of your remarks, but perhaps we had better take time to consider the matter and forward you the result of our deliberations. The Premier You have heard my explanation. You can discuss matters, and send me the result. Wiremu Katene We will consider in the direction you suggest, and the result of our deliberations we will give to our representative, who will take them down to Wellington. Wiremu Komene This is in reference to the dog-tax. We want to know whether you sent instructions to the Magistrates to inflict punishment upon those who refused to pay the dog-tax. The Premier The Government never gave instructions either to the Magistrates or the Judges of the Supreme Court or of the District Court. These Magistrates and these Judges are simply machines. They carry out the law as passed by Parliament. It is Parliament that gives the instructions. Wiremu Komene The reason we are not paying the dog-tax is on account of sections 3 and 5 of "The.Dog-tax Eegistration Act, 1880, and the amendment Act of 1882. The people that refused to pay the dog-tax include all the kaingas about Otawa. I will quote some portion of sections 13 and sof "The Dog-tax Registration Act, 1880," and the amending Act of 1882. Mr Clendon will know these sections. Section 13 gives us power, in the event of our objecting to pay the tax, to hand the dogs over to the police to be destroyed.

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The Premier I can put you right, and I shall not expound the law wrongly Having been one who was in Parliament when this clause was passed, I can tell you the mind, of Parliament at the time. It is quite true that a policeman or a dog-tax collector can kill an unregistered dog on the road, and he may also kill an unregistered dog on other property, not being the property of the owner But it would be a most dangerous thing if the law was to be interpreted in the way you indicate, because a dog-tax collector might come to a pa, ask for the tax, and see a dog there and shoot it. It might be a favourite dog; the owner might lose his temper, and there might be worse trouble arise. It is not the duty of the police or the dog-tax collector to go round the country, and, if he cannot get the money, to go shooting the dogs , if he did so, he would be breaking the law Wiremu Komene The law has been interpreted to us by the authorities inside out, to suit themselves. If we wished to give up the dogs when the collector comes round, the collector would have to take the dog, and shoot it if we refused to pay The Premier If that was the law I would tell you so. Wiremu Komene It has been interpreted to me so, and the interpretation is certainly that, and it is in the Gazette. The Premier The Gazette is only a copy of the law The Gazette does not give the power, nor can it make the law Wiremu Komene We have been under this impression, and people have gone to gaol on account of this misinterpretation. The Premier The only one who can interpret the law is the Magistrate. Wiremu Komene Now, my prayer to you is this My brothers and uncles are now in prison through being misled, and I now pray that you will let them out. They have served a certain time. I hope you will now let them out. The Premier The question now raised is asking for the clemency of the Crown. The clemency of the Crown can only be exercised on a petition being sent through the Minister of Justice to the Governor When that petition is received, and when we find that the Natives, now they know the law, are prepared to obey it literally that would weigh with the Governor as to whether he would grant the clemency asked for I have heard your explanation, and we will look into the matter if you petition for the release of your friends. You cannot escape paying the dog-tax any more than the Europeans. If you have more dogs than are useful to yoix, destroy those which are of no use. They can only make you pay on dogs that are alive. They cannot make you pay on dead dogs. In former days your forefathers required a lot of dogs, because the dogs helped them in getting food. Ido not like seeing so many dogs about the Native pas. I would rather see children. If the Europeans kept proportionately as many dogs as the Natives, Ido not know what would become of the country You are now getting sheep, and you will want good dogs to look after them. lam glad to see you are going in now for sheep. In some places in the South Island they make them pay 10s. for a dog. Here, I believe, it is only ss.—just half. But this is a matter more for the local bodies. The dog-tax goes to help to keep our roads in repair , so if a man pays ss. for the dog-tax he pays it for keeping the roads in repair If he does not like to pay this tax he can get his dog destroyed, or destroy it himself, and need not pay the tax. That is a matter for the owners to settle among themselves. But we do not wish—the Government does not wish —neither do the local bodies wish —we none of,us wish, in carrying out the law, to act harshly towards you. But when the law is defied, and you take up a defiant attitude, there is nothing else for it but for the Magistrate to do his duty If you have made a mistake, and did not take the warning that was given you at first, and you now see that you made a mistake, the only chance of having the punishment mitigated is by petition to the Governor. Now you might say, supposing the Governor was to give you a reprieve, or to mitigate the punishment, " We do not care for the Magistrate , the Governor will see us free , we will go and break the law again." If you approach the Governor in that spirit I may tell you at once your friends will not be set free , but if you approach the Governor and say, "We were misled , we now see the law is against us we wish to obey the law," there will be no further trouble then the Governor may see his way to mitigate the punishment. I shall therefore await the petition but you must clearly understand the spirit in which it must come. If you take up a defiant attitude, and defy the law, I would be sorry for you to do so. The law must be supreme. It is the law of the Queen and the law of the country and is as much for your protection as the protection of the pakeha. Without the law we should none of us be safe —neither our wives, children, or our properties. I hope you will therefore see the position, and recognise this after you have reasoned the matter over with yourselves. You will find it is really in your interest that the majesty of the law is maintained. Wiremu Komene . I will send the petition to the Governor, but it certainly will not go upon the lines that we wish to defy the law or the Magistrate nothing of the kind. The Premier lam very pleased to hear that. Wiremu Komene When I pointed out this section to the Magistrate it was exactly as you interpreted it—it was only for the dogs straying about. The petition will go from Kaikohe, Te Einga, and Otawa. Te Waru I was going to have a long talk over the Native Land Purchase and Acquisition Act. Now seeing that the whole thing is made plain to us, there is nothing for me to do but submit amendments to you when writing. All these people assembled here to-day wish it to be left under section 14, and not to go any further I wish this law not to allude to any pas or cultivations. I do not wish the latter part of the section to come in where the Governor is allowed to adjudicate. Section 11—In case the land is leased, all the expenses shall be defrayed by the owners This presses very heavily on the Natives. One of the Native grievances is that they are not able to settle their own people on their own land. The rates and taxes are so heavy on the lands. This is one of the oppressions—the surveys, and of the expenses put upon the land when it is transferred. The stamp duties and succession duties really go to

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prevent Europeans taking up land from the Natives. This should all be revised, and the people placed on their own lands. Supposing they were to sell all their lands, where is the portion left for them ? We wish that all those duties should be taken off, that we may be able to sell our land to the pakeha. Now I come to the Bating Act. I do not think the Government have any great love or affection for the Natives, because they are putting rates on them. They will never be able to pay the rates—the land must go to pay the rates. I quite agree with you when you remark that the land is the mother of the people. Why should not a piece of land be taken for another? The Act says the land must be within five miles of a road. Why should they be rated when they have no communication with the roads ? I am just pointing these facts out to you. These are the oppressions, and we feel them very much. I will give you an instance. Some people have no roads to their places at all—they simply have a canoe and why should these people be taxed when they do not use the roads ? The Premier Perhaps I might save all further speakers talking on the question raised by my friend here to-day It was just now mentioned by him in his speech that he did not think the Government had any love for the Natives, because they passed a law making them pay rates. Then we have no love for the Europeans, because they have had to pay rates for many years, whether they used a road or not. But I think we show half as much love again for the Natives as for the pakeha, because we only make the Natives pay one-half, so our hearts are one-half warmer to the Natives than to the Europeans. We make the Europeans pay for all their land—it does not matter whether there is a road or not but we only ask the Natives to pay for such land as is within five miles of a main road. The roads are there just as much for the Natives as for the Europeans. I never found the Natives going in the bush when there was a road to travel on. I never saw the Natives swimming a river so long as there was a bridge for them to go across , and the roads and the bridges are a public convenience. If they were to put a toll-gate on these roads, and make every one pay to go through, the Natives would have to pay much more in rates. I have said —and that is the whole trouble—l am sorry the Natives have not more money to enable them to pay their rates ; but they keep the land locked up. They will not make any money out of it themselves, and will not let any one else. They are therefore rich and yet poor The amount they are called upon to pay is not much if they had the means to pay The Parliament very graciously refused to put rates on the Natives the same as on the Europeans, because we recognise that certain changes must take place before we put the whole amount of the rates upon them, and if they will take advantage of the law passed last session, and help the Government so that they can utilise the lands the same as the Europeans, they will find the rates will not oppress them. If you have any suggestions to make in reference to this question of the rates, the same as you are going to do in connection with the Land Act, reduce them to writing. It is no use three or four getting up and speaking. Eeduce what you have got to say to writing, and send it to Wellington. Your late member will tell you that on the Native Committee the Government agreed to let you off with only paying half-rates and we hope to see you improve your lands. Keep as much as you think will be wanted for yourselves and children, but do not think of keeping the country in an unproductive condition that is what everybody complains of. The Government is the strong buffer between you and the power behingU Knowing this to be the case, that is why I want to speak to you face to face, so as to remove these defects, and get you in a better position to do good for yourselves and children. As regards the question you mention, as to the pakehas buying direct from the Maoris themselves, I might just as well let you jump into the ocean and let the sharks devour you, because the pakeha land-shark has been a curse, and would be a curse again. We will not let you in amongst the sharks, you are too good for that, but we do say you shall get a fair value for your land, and in leasing it you shall be protected The greatest trouble the Parliament has had has been to protect you against these land-sharks. The Native who lately spoke might be able to make a good bargain, and be able to protect himself, but he would not be able to say the same of every Native in this room. What about these children, who have as much right to the land as he has? What about those men who cannot speak English, and do not know anything about the laws, and have never been brought into contact with Europeans ? They would not be able to do business the same as he. The first thing that would happen when you let a piece of land by lease would be a dispute about your boundaries, because you cannot let a piece of land unless you know what the boundary is. The next thing would be a squabble about fencing the boundary Then the lessee would not pay the rent. Then, the next thing, all the improvements belong to him, and by-and-by he takes the land from you, and you get very little money—probably he gets you into his debt, he is the landlord, and he turns you out. Then, when the quarrel becomes so serious, you come to Parliament for a Validation Act. One half of this book is Acts of Parliament—validating Acts between the Natives and the Europeans , and nearly always we find the Natives have been wronged. The Europeans and the pakeha-Maori land-sharks are all round you, and if we were to do what you ask—to give you free trade with your land with the pakeha-Maori and land-shark —they would sweep down upon you as the hawk does upon the little bird. We are not going to let you drop into the talons of the hawk—we are not going to let you go into the maws of the sharks; but it is in the interests of yourselves that any dealings in your lands should be under the same law as that under which we deal with Crown lands, so that they shall be submitted to public auction , that the light of day shall be on the transaction, so that there will be none of these illegitimate transactions. I have known Natives like you who have known our laws. They have received a large sum of money, and have got other Natives to agree to a lease who did not know what they were doing. That has been a Native who knows business and knows our language. I have known these people pay men to do wrong to their friends. I hope I have now convinced you that it is not right to the Native race to allow them to be the victims of designing persons. Of course, lam quite willing to receive from you any communications suggesting an improvement upon the Act as it now stands, but it is no use sending suggestions down asking the Government to agree to free trade in Native lands and 6—G 1

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to hand you over to the land-sharks. We intend to remain true to your forefathers. They saw the ills that would happen to you if you were left in the hands of designing persons, and hence by the Treaty of Waitangi you must deal with your lands only through the Government. If we were to agree to what you propose it would be almost sufficient to make the voice of your forefathers issue from the grave and cry, " Shame ! shame ! shame ! We signed the solemn Treaty of Waitangi with you that our people should be protected for all time against themselves. Why have you broken the treaty, and handed over our people to the pakeha-Maori and the wrongdoer? " Te Waru The point rests more in respect to us leasing under the law Before a European tenant can take possession of a lease from the Natives of any piece of land he has to pay stamp duty on the capitalised value for the term of that lease. This would press very heavily upon them, and depreciate the value of the land. I ask that we should be allowed solely to lease —that is to say, no one else should have the leasing but ourselves. It is not a question of who should lease, but the question is, when we do lease let the law be light. The Premier ■ There is no such expense if the lease is done under this Act. Te Waru As I read it, all expenses incurred on this land will be paid when the lease is taken. The Premier There is no such thing as stamp duty under the present Act. Under the original Act the expenses were, I grant, heavy If a road is constructed through the land it improves its letting-value. You will find under this Board, when it fixes the value of the land, additional value is given by having the road, and hence you will have the same benefit as the Europeans. lam glad I came to-day, because you do not understand the law Te Waru The Europeans have the roads right up to their doors. The Natives have no roads at all, and why should they pay half-rates '? The Premier It is no use speaking against the fact. The Natives have just as much use of the roads as the Europeans. Their land is only taxed if within five miles of the road. Te Waru There is no land further away than five miles—only land that has not gone through the Court. The Premier I may tell the people here that your knowledge is very limited. You cannot speak for all parts of the North Island, because we have a map showing what land is rateable, and if you say the land is not within five miles of a road, and has not gone through the Court, you do not know anything about it. Ec te Tai ■ We have heard all you have had to say to-day, and you have said we should give our grievances to you. I rest on that one saying of yours to-day—telling us that we should meet and confer together, and that we should have one petition and send it'to the Government. On that head I now make a prayer to the Premier and the Hon. Mr Carroll. It is that they will agree to sanction a Bill that will be framed by the Natives of this Island. Any Bill or Bills that the Maoris may get up will be placed before you in the next Parliament. I ask you now whether you will sanction any Bill got up by us and the big meeting when they are all unanimous ? The Premier • When you close the proceedings I am quite prepared to give you a very complete reply, and my reply is, as I told you, the Parliament of New Zealand is as open to you as it is to me. If you have a Bill drafted, and you have one of yourselves, or any European member, to introduce that Bill, or is desirous to do so, the of the Parliament is there, and it can be introduced. The Parliament receives all Bills. They are moved for the first time to be introduced, so long as they are respectfully worded then they are read, or refused to be read, a second time ; but I have never yet known or heard of a Bill being refused t6 be introduced that was at all reasonable. I have no doubt the Bill would be discussed. If it was not considered to the advantage of the colony to pass it it would be rejected. If it was against the Constitution, or if it was unconstitutional in its provisions, it would be thrown out. If it was against the interest of the two races, then it would be thrown out. If it was an improvement upon the existing laws, and the majority in Parliament considered it was a wise thing to pass it, why then it would pass. You must be prepared to abide by the decision of the majority In that spirit I understand from the speaker amove will be made in this direction. If in your Bill you ask to have a Parliament of your own —to ignore the present Parliament and to set aside the authority of the Queen —I tell you now at once it would not be allowed to be introduced. There can only be one Parliament and one authority in this country and that is the authority of Her Most Gracious Majesty Queen Victoria. Your forefathers ceded this, it was in your interests, and it is in the interest of us all to maintain that position. I shall be very pleased myself to see in what way you will shape the proposed legislation. It will be a very concise way of ascertaining your views upon the questions that affect you; but, as I have told you, Parliament is open to you, and it is to Parliament you must look for redress. If Parliament does not see its way to agree to what you propose, as loyal subjects of the Queen and as colonists you must submit with good taste, and believe it is all done for the best. My last words to you now are, and my first words to-day were, Look to Parliament, and I feel sure Parliament will do what is right. Here the Natives proposed to adjourn for tea, but the Premier said the matters they were engaged upon were more important than tea. When a jury is doing the business of a country the authorities lock them up until they have finished their business. They had just arrived at a very important stage in the proceedings; their thoughts were working well—it would be a pity to disturb their thoughts by loading their stomachs. Hone Heke : In trying to cut everything as short as possible, after they have said everything in respect to the Act passed last session, there is a suggestion for the Natives to put down any such suggestion they see fit on paper and send it to Wellington. I think before concluding with the different Acts referred to to-day, and proceeding to grievances with reference to the surplus-land question, is not the mind of the Natives at the present time, and it would be better for them to quote the cases in view and then follow with other matters. That would be the shortest way to dispose of everything for the present.

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The Premier They have all made reference to their grievances in respect to some surplus land. It would be best for them to name all the different blocks in which they have been wronged, and it would only be a duty for the Government, or myself as representing the Government, to take up the information given here to-day to Wellington and place it before the Government there for their consideration, and we may find out there -whether it is worth while setting up a Court of inquiry into these different blocks. The proper course to pursue is to take a typical case and send it on to Wellington. I might forget what has been said to me to-day, but if they reduce their grievances respecting the particular blocks to writing it then becomes a matter of record, and the Government could look into it and decide accordingly Hone Peti I have a request to make to the Premier in reference to the subject lam about to submit to him Ido not wish it to be treated in the same manner as one would treat any ordinary subject, as when meeting one along the road—a mere exchange of words, but I would like the history of this case inquired into at the present time. The case lam about to refer to is that of the Puketotara Block, about which I visited. Wellington and presented a petition, and I discussed the matter with members outside the House. While there I also asked that any decision on my petition might be withheld until a member of the Ministry should have an opportunity of visiting the locality and gaining information in connection with the land. The Hon. the Minister of Lands appeared at Waimate, and we assembled in his presence and discussed this subject. After he had heard what we had to say, he stated that on his return to Wellington he would meet his colleagues in Cabinet and give the matter his attention. He was to inform me of the decision arrived at by his Government, but from that time to this no word has reached me. I explained all the particulars and matters in detail which constituted this subject. If the Premier would like me to give him a sketch of the history of this case now I will do so. The Premier : Has it already been recorded ? If it is already in the petition it is no use my worrying you by letting you give me the details. I shall see whether it is in the petition, and, if so, I will inquire why the matter has not been attended to. Hone Peti Ido not know whether all the particulars were taken down at that interview, but I know that the Commissioner of Crown Lands was present. Whether it was Mr Mueller I cannot say at present, and I cannot say whether every particular was noted at that time. The petition was presented to Parliament. The land is known by the name of Puketotara. It was formerly sold to the early settlers who visited this colony It was sold by people other than the owners. We—that is to say, our old people and our forefathers, who were the residential people located on the land—did not sell it. When they heard of the sale perpetrated by another hapu they took steps to resent it, but they found that those who had sold the land had decamped with the purchase-money of the European, and the European would not give up the land, although it had been sold by persons that had no right to sell. They pacified some of our people by bribing them and by giving them presents, but that did not satisfy the whole of the people, and that land remained a subject of dispute up to the year 1850. The people who owned the land had been living all this time on it and cultivating it. In that year we, who had gone up with our own people, went and gave notice to the European of our objecting to the European title to the land vesting in him, and requested him to give up the land, which had been wrongly sold. We went every year for six years to protest. At 1 last he agreed to give a portion of the land sold by our people to him in lieu of that which had been wrongly sold by the people I have mentioned. This was agreed upon, and, together with ourselves, he went on to the land and marked off the portion to be given back to us. After that certain surveys were prosecuted in this part of the Island. I believe they were the first surveys ever done in the colony William Clarke was the name of the surveyor When the land-surveying, as I have mentioned, started in this district he was the surveyor, and these surveys were instigated by the missionaries, and as the survey was made identical with the lines agreed upon, it marked off the piece to be returned to us. A year after this we undertook the survey of this portion which we were to have, and completed it, and submitted the land to the Native Land Court, the presiding Judge of which was Mr Mailing. The investigation proceeded before Judge Maning, and the whole case was heard throughout. Judgment was suspended, and during this suspension Mr Kemp came forward and objected. He objected to the survey-line encroaching upon his piece, and asked that it should be adjusted. Mr Kemp said his son would go and set the boundary-line right, and afterwards would proceed with the case. Mr Maning agreed to that, and, in consequence of a dispute amongst ourselves that arose about that time, we failed to go and set the survey-line right, and we allowed the matter to stand over in that position , but we leased the land, and it was under lease by us up to the years 1889 and 1890, and when Mr Smith, Chief Judge of the Native Land Court, came to Eawene I asked him to explain the position of that land, but he said to me, " Wait until I return to Auckland, and I will look up the particulars in the department, and let you know the position of it." The Government had made a claim to the land about this time. When the Chief Judge returned to Auckland he wrote to us, and informed us that he had looked the matter up, and attached to his letter a memorandum written by Judge Heale. He said the land did not belong to the Government. Now, at that time Mr. Heale was Surveyor-General of the colony He was afterwards appointed Judge of the Native Land Court, and it was when he was head of the Survey Department, I presume, that he wrote that minute in respect to the land not belonging to the Government. After this we applied for the Court to sit, and decide. Judge Puckey proceeded to inquire into the title of the land. On the second day of the investigation by the Court a reply was sent by the Government to say it was Crown land, and could not be dealt with. The Court had gone so far as to accept the lease of the owners, and had made a special division of the land between the owners, when this wire came from the Government asking what jurisdiction the Court had to deal with it. That wire was replied to by Judge Puckey, and subsequently a wire came from the Government saying the proceedings should be delayed while inquiries were made by the Government In consequence of this wire from

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the Government judgment was suspended, and we have waited for some information from the Government as to the result of their inquiries. Nothing followed , nothing was done. I then sent a letter to the Government asking them to inquire into the. matter, the usual reply was given—that they did not see fit to consider the matter, and there was nothing done. Then I drew up a petition as already referred to, and submitted it to Parliament. This is a very strong case, and the grounds which support it are stronger than the generality of such cases under the circumstances. Much land has gone from us. We have lived on that land, we have always lived on it and cultivated it down to the time we sent in our petition. This, Premier is the position of this case. I have waited for some word from the Hon. the Minister of Lands, I have received none. All through the time of last Parliament no word has come to me. If he is still in power I have received nothing by way of information. That was during the time of the last Government. Now that the Premier is here I respectfully pray that he will take this matter into his consideration —now a new Government is formed, and the Premier is here in person, and he has already intimated that he will study it carefully and give attention to our grievances. I may add also that when the Government were cutting up land in this district for settlement purposes I wrote to the Government asking them to forbear selling any land identical with this block, until this question has been settled. I have received no word, and they have not stopped their proceedings. When the Native Land Laws Commission sat here, and Mr Rees was Chairman, a selector was looking for a portion of land whereon to settle. I saw that Commissioner and sent word to the Government to stop the European selector, but this matter was not gone into. The Commissioner took no steps in the matter All this time there have been European selectors selecting portions for themselves. On each occasion we have asked that they should hold aloof until these grievances of ours had been adjusted. I want you, the Premier, to give attention to this. I wish to describe to you how the old sales were carried on in the old days. The European purchasers came round and found the people of the settlement away on their business, and they bought from those who were at the settlement, while part of the owners were away Thus were these lands acquired. I think it is only right in the case of this surplus land that the Natives and their descendants should be allowed to participate in them. I want you, as head of this Government, to give full consideration to the claims of the Natives. The Government are losing nothing by it —they never paid for it, it is a limitation of area and surplus, and all such surplus, I think, should go back to the Natives. This is the full burden of my prayer This portion of land should be given back to the Natives, they having previously sold it to him in lieu of land which had been wrongfully sold to him The Premier I have listened patiently to all you have had to say What is the name of the block '? What is the area of the land involved ? Hone Peti The Puketotara. The area is 4,000 acres. The Premier This is the first I have heard of it, and I can say no more than this that I will look into the papers and see how the matter stands. At any rate, you shall receive a reply Tdo not think it is right to keep matters in suspense and doubt. The sooner it is settled one way or the other the better In regard to the question of surplus land, I know it is a very large question and requires very careful handling. I will also go into that matter and discuss it with the Minister of Lands. The circumstances are so altered now, owing to the time that has elapsed, that it is difficult to deal with, and almost impossible to go back to it. What applies more particularly to the first case gives great force to what I said to-day—this constant holding over of titles. If the titles had been ascertained years ago this trouble could never have taken place, and the longer this question is left over the more difficult it is to deal with—l mean the question of ascertaining the titles to land. Hence what I urge upon the Natives and Europeans, and all concerned, is that the sooner we ascertain the titles to all the land, the sooner we shall be able to do justice to all parties. You may rest assured I will go into the matter most carefully, because I desire to do what is just. You have not told me what the result of your petition to Parliament was. Hone Peti I could not tell you what the result of that petition was, but when I left Wellington the intention was to refer the matter in the usual way for inquiry The Premier Who was the member representing the district when you presented it ? Hone Peti The first year Te Kapa represented us in Parliament. I forwarded that petition to Parliament through Hone Taipua, and when I was in Wellington they both told me they had presented the petition, but the Committee had not gone into it. While I w T as there, I may mention that I told them not to hurry on the investigation of the petition, so as to allow me time to interview the Minister of Lands. I returned at this stage to my own home and waited the arrival of the Minister of Lands. The Premier I will ascertain whether the Committee inquired into the matter, and whether the petition still remains to be dealt with. It might require renewing. If presented the session before last it would not require renewing. I will inquire into the matter, and you shall hear from me some little time after I return to Wellington Hone Peti I am satisfied. I make this last suggestion. It is for you to consider whether any importance can be attached to it. It is an important question—whether the Government see their way clear to appoint some tribunal to investigate the matter and set it at rest. I do not mean that the Government should appoint any commission to investigate these matters and let the cost fall upon us. Possibly the Government may be able to appoint some one with authority to go into the question on both sides. It is futile to approach Parliament by way of petition. Nothing comes of it. I simply throw this out as a suggestion. The Premier All will depend upon the investigation. There are other interests in other blocks similarly situated you have simply indicated this as a typical case. You had better send down a list of subjects to me at Wellington. Eaniera I understand now that we have arrived at the end of our business, and that you are going to have something to eat, and proceed on your journey I am very pleased that the result of our talk has been the opening up of a path by which we can send our communications in

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connection with this matter to you. I must express my pleasure at the invitation given us to forward our complaints and grievances to the place where, you say, they should be sent, and that such will receive your careful consideration. You also mentioned that former Governments have not acted in the manner you have done—by coming to visit us, enduring hardships, and taking the trouble to listen to our complaints. lam further pleased at the good advice you have tendered to us to-day in which you instanced the bundle of sticks, which, when bound together could not be broken, but, when taken individually stick by stick, were easily broken. Your remarks in that direction have given me the fullest satisfaction, and your assent also to the lines suggested by Wi Papa with reference to a general meeting of the Natives, at which they might formulate a Bill to submit to the Government. That general meeting for that purpose will be akin to the advice you gave us about the bundle of sticks. Such a Bill will proceed from an organized body My approval of your utterances to-day is further strengthened by your reminding us that the Parliament of this colony is approachable by the two races of this colony and I hail with satisfaction your announcement that any step we may take in the direction of formulating a measure comprising our ideas on the subject of legislation—that is, if we send such a measure down to the Parliament of the colony—will be carefully scanned and scrutinised by all sides of the House , and, if any good can result therefrom, you will assist in framing and making an accomplished fact an Act that will be beneficial to the Native races. You will have earned the goodwill, good feeling, and entire approval of the Native people. There is a meeting already fixed to which all the representatives of the Maori people of both Islands are invited to attend. That meeting will be held at Gisborne on the 12th April, and at that meeting will take place what has beeij mentioned already—namely, a Bill will be drawn up by the Native people. With reference to what you have discussed with us to-day, referring to the Acts, it is settled that the people here, after your departure, will consider all the various points brought out during the korero, and they will communicate with you further on. At the same time these matters that have been brought forward by Peti, and all such matters, will be forwarded on to you. The Bill that the Native people intend to frame will be submitted to Parliament through the hand of their Native representative. I have come to the end of my speech, and I will conclude by wishing long life to yourself and your colleague for having met us here to-day The Premier Men, women, and children of the Native race, my last words to you to-night are these As I started to-day with a friendly greeting, I now wish you a hearty good-bye. I have counselled you as a friend. I have indicated to you on what lines legislation would be in your interest, and if you keep to these lines and are reasonable in your proposals there is all the better chance of making such amendments in the law as may be considered necessary in the interests of both races. Because lam in this position I know the minds of the Europeans just as you know the minds of the Native race. Just as, if you attempt when the river is in flood to put a barrier across it, the waters will wash the barrier away, so if you make unreasonable proposals they will be washed away I therefore counsel you to think well of the words I have spoken to you to-day I have indicated to you, first, that we desire to preserve the race. Secondly, I have told you the present condition of affairs can no longer continue. Thirdly it is necessary for the protection of the race that you should be defended against the pakeha-Maori land-sharks, and that evils are bound to arise if there is free trade in Native lands. And, lastly, I tell you that if (as we have in the North of Auckland) large tracts of country remaining with the titles unascertained, complications become so great that we do not know who owns the land, and every day this is continued is so much to your injury. But there is something in what you have said to-day in regard to the expense incurred. And when I come to this subject, and meet my colleague and discuss the question with him, and we both agree that these expenses should be lessened (and the cheaper we can make them the better), I would, with a view to lessening the costs, bring the Court and the Judges to a place like this, where there are no publichouses and no evils you might fall into. I would bring the Courts to the doors of the owners, and would, as far as possible, keep the pakeha-Maoris from being with you when you are discussing the question of your land. It would be just as well that you should keep clear of the lawyers. I would again remind you of the bundle of sticks. What has caused you some expense and lost you more land than enough is due to your quarrelling amongst yourselves. Not only that, but when the question of titles comes up your neighbour may want a rehearing of the Court, and all the time your land is going from you. My heart has bled when seeing the Natives dragged into the towns to rehear complaints. They have been there week after week and month after month, while all their substance has been vanishing. I have known them in the Courts kissing that good book the Bible, and at the same time while kissing with their lips they have told lies and perjured themselves. I would sooner see a slow disease over the land than see what I have seen in respect of their land when going through the Courts—the men there drinking, quarrelling, fighting among themselves, and all of the one race. Their wives and daughters keep in the towns, acquire bad habits, and in some cases are defiled. After meeting each other, and keeping as I told you to-day, adjusting matters as between friends, if there is a little dispute, it is better to to come and talk it over and come to a mutual agreement, than to be impoverished, and to find your lands going away to those who prey upon you. I have to-day kept my word. I am a man that does not promise much, but any promise made I always perform. I told you to-day that I would open my mind to you, and speak plainly to you, and I think you will agree with me I have kept my word. On the other hand, I am very pleased you have opened your minds to me, and that we have discussed matters reasonably, and I think mutual good will result from my having paid you a visit. I have many more places to go to and many more Natives to see, hence the necessity for my leaving you much earlier than I wished. I would have liked to have stopped with you longer and enjoyed your hospitality, but, though distance may separate our bodies, our minds, I hope, will be working in the same direction—namely, the improvement of the condition of the Native race in this country —that they may live in peace, contentment, and

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prosperity side by side with their friends the pakeha; that in so living they may improve their position , that they may advance with the times, and by that advancement be taught that it is in their interest to set a good example. I would like to see the sous of the Native race hold their position in the Civil Service of the colony I would like to see them holding their position in connection with the commerce of the colony I have no hesitation whatsoever in saying that mentally physically, and with cultivation they are capable of holding the highest positions in the land. But you cannot do that—you cannot hope for your sons doing this if things continue the way they are, and the way they have been drifting the last few years. You must see first of all that they have the creature comforts of life. It is no use living in a half European and half Native state, as you now live. It is impossible for you to expect the physical development that it is necessary for you to have. There must be something also for you to look forward to. When you have no hope, and nothing definite to do, that is bound to bring you to evil,ways. I have heard it said that all the young men care about is riding horses, drinking wdipiro, and playing billiards. There may only be a few and it is not their wish to do what is wrong. But, I ask, what causes them to do this ? It is because they have no occupation—nothing to do. They do not go on the land. Even their fathers do not know whether the land belongs to them or not. They do not go chopping down the bush and putting up fences, because they do not know who they would be doing it for , hence, I am sure that if this state of things was removed there would be more cultivation, and you would find greater prosperity among the Natives. Then, as regards the walks amongst the better paths of life, they must have the necessary education, without it they would simply hold inferior positions. I would like to see schools—the very best possible —maintained in the Native districts. I would like to see those sons of the Natives who have a natural gift above their fellows securing scholarships, and going to our colleges and getting a superior education. Then there is no doubt we should find them filling the most advanced positions in the colonies. All this is possible if you follow the advice I have given you. Follow the advice of a friend who has come among you to-day to try and do you good. I shall redeem my promise. And here I tell you, I shall take your representative, Hone Heke—a young man of superior education, desirous of doing you good —I shall take him by the hand I shall render him all the assistance I possibly can, and when he is away from you in Parliament and helping to pass laws in the interest of Europeans and Natives, do not have people behind his back doing him an injury, but be satisfied with what he is doing. Do not when he is in Parliament ask him to do what is unreasonable, and, if he attempts to do well, hold him up to ridicule, because if you do it will be a reflection upon him just as much aslipon you. Eemember that he is one of the sticks, and it is just as well to keep all the sticks together With the Europeans, when their member goes to Parliament they only ask him to do what is reasonable, they keep strengthening his hands and helping him, and that strengthens his position when in Parliament at Wellington. Then when the European comes back from Parliament he calls meetings of those he represents, gives explanations, and then they decide whether he has been acting as a faithful servant or not. I say to you, follow 7 the same plan : when Hone comes back from the House of Korero, get his explanation, and if he serves you faithfully, say "Go forward, we have every confidence in you." It is only after explanation that you are in a fair position to judge. Now, we may differ, as we have differed to-day, in opinion, but we are both striving to do what is right in the long run. * .'Generally speaking the majority is right, I have always found that the case since I have had anything to do with public life. I wish you good-bye, and leave you with a friendly greeting. An excellent tea was provided, and. while this was being partaken of a party of voting men sang a number of part songs, already made familiar to us by the Fisk Jubilee Singers. The way the different parts were taken would have been a credit to many Europeans. The last feature, but not the least, was the capital way in which some of the children sang. At 9 p.m. the Natives took leave of their guests, and the party started for Bawene amidst much shaking of hands and cheering. The Natives seemed quite delighted at the result of the meeting. Eawene' was reached at midnight, and on the following morning a steamer took the party to the Heads, where the Premier spent a couple of pleasant hours with Mr Webster This gentleman s hospitality is proverbial, and his fund of information in connection with the early history of Hokianga is practically inexhaustible —he is a walking encyclopedia. At 3 p.m. horses were provided and the journey resumed. On arrival at Waimamaku, the Native School Committee, with the schoolmaster, met the Premier, and invited him to visit the school. This school was in excellent order and reflects great credit on the local dominie, who seems to be untiring in his efforts to make the Natives understand the incalculable benefit to be derived from having a good education. In opening the proceedings, Mr Iraia Toi (Chairman of the School Committee) said, —Our children are the cause of great consideration to us. We are sad in regard to the future. We heard the Premier express himself yesterday to the effect that his love for the Native people was strong, and that he would rather see a number of children about the Native settlement than dogs. We have for the last three years aspired to have a college. We have built up within our minds the hope that one would be erected. We have indicated this desire of ours to the Inspectors. What fathered this desire within us was the fact that great grief happened to us on account of our sending our children a long distance —to Te Aute College —and they there met with many ailments resulting in death. The result has been that it has prevented us sending our children to that College, and this feeling has permeated through the whole community and the various School Committees, and that has strengthened us in our earnest desire that a college should be established here, and our feeling on the matter has been made known in strong and vigorous terms to the different School Committees throughout this district. That is all I have to say or place before you. The Eev Wiki te Paa The Premier will reply in due course to what we lay before him. I wish on this occasion to indorse what has fallen from the Chairman of the School Committee. It is true that it is the feeling of the Committee, under the circumstances, that the school should be

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Converted into a college for the children of the districts north of Auckland. The last speaker has given you reasons which provide a fair justification for our request. I need not follow on the same ground. You were kind enough to say that you would deplore the decrease of the Native race. It is on that particular ground that the Natives will not send their children to the higher schools —to the colleges which are a distance away from them—because it has resulted in the death of so many of them, and it is apt to give rise to a feeling of prejudice entertained by the Native parents In regard to sending their children to any school but they have the hope that, in taking advantage of the education which is afforded to them, their children should reach the higher stages in education. They are naturally not satisfied with the ordinary education which is meted out, and, as a part of their hopes and aspirations, as has been told you, their children have been sent to a distant college, and many of them have never returned. It tends to destroy the enthusiasm which should and has existed in the Native mind—namely, to have their children cultured. I think it is pure waste of money if the children are limited to education in the primary schools—when they are afraid to allow their children to go a step beyond. This is a subject we have deliberated over and our deliberations have been submitted to all the other tribes of the Ngapuhi. The other people have indorsed our conclusions on this matter At the present time there are four such children who have passed the Fourth Standard. There will be others of other schools in different parts who have done likewise. Is it not hard not to be able to go a step beyond this for their advancement ? That is all I have to say, except to express the hope that the Premier will be blessed with a long life for his visit to us on this occasion. Hapakuku Moetara (chief of the district) I am very pleased indeed at the Premier and his colleague having visited this school, and I trust the Premier will see fit to support our desire and establish a higher school for the northern part of this Island. I have two children in this school who have passed the fourth standard, but for the reasons already stated I cannot send them to the other schools south. If you can see your way to devise some method by which our hopes and desires in regard to our children can be realised in the direction we want, we trust you will give countenance to it, or offer us some suggestion by which we can achieve our object. I am imbued with a very strong desire indeed that our children should benefit by education that they shall be in a position to secure all the advantages derived by the Europeans through education, that they will master the higher walks in life, and secure a position of a superior standard which is enjoyed by the children of the European race. It is a matter of great concern, to me to feel that my children have successfully advanced in this school to be in the Fourth Standard, and yet on account of my natural instincts in regard to their welfare I Cciimot send them to Te Aute College or St. Stephen's. That is the position, that is the feeling of us all—that our children wish to advance, and wish to progress , wish to learn all that is to be learned by the European children. Wo have already procured band instruments for them. That is all I have to say The master of this school will entertain you after we have dealt with this matter I must express pleasure at having seen you to-day, and I only hope that what we have laid before you to-day will bear fruit. The Premier I desire to express to you my very great pleasure at meeting you. The pleasure is all the greater because you havo broached a subject which I have given a great deal of consideration to, and you are going in the right direction in the interest of your race. I did say, and I again repeat, that it would be much better for the Native race if they would have less dogs and pay greater attention to their offspring, their children. The settlement here reflects great credit upon you, for I see, compared with the number of parents, a very great proportion of children , and I feel sure—and I am only stating what, if returns were carefully compiled, would be proved— that by sending children to school you prolong their lives. You promote cleanliness, improve their moral and social well-being, and give them an opportunity of holding positions which, if uneducated, it would be impossible for them to hold. There is no doubt whatever that, as the world progresses, and as we in this colony are likewise progressing, the uneducated will be the hewers of wood and drawers of water This applies to the Europeans just as much as it does to the Natives, and if the parents do not give their children education, then these children, when they arrive at maturity, will say that those parents did not do their duty to them as parents. Now, proportionately, we do not find the Native race represented either in the professions, the Civil Service, or the better class of trades in the colony The cause of this is not far to seek. They are as you are here in this locality. Parents in other parts I have travelled in are absolutely indifferent as regards the education of their children, and the most painful thing that has happened to me during my trip was at Hikonui, up the Waikato, where they told me they did not want schools, and the land that they had given for school purposes they wanted the Government to give back to them. I drew from it a comparison. I compared even your forefathers, when the Europeans first came amongst them—-I drew a comparison between the Europeans and the Natives—and they, your forefathers, knew very little about the outer world, but one of the things they stipulated for was that the Government would see to the education of their children. Now, it was said of them that they were barbarians ; but when we hear that remark it shows they took an interest in their race, and I say they were much more enlightened than thoso Natives up the Waikato who did not want schools for their children; and if there is anything above all others that I think should be fully recognised and full effect given thereto, it is the bond that was made as regards the education of the children of the Native race ■ and, so long as I have anything to do with guiding the destinies of this country, I shall prove my love for the Native race by giving every encouragement to them, and foster schools as much as we can compatibly with the revenue at our disposal. It cannot be said that the Native race is incapable of cultivation, because I have seen Native youths and men holding the very best positions. Now, as regards primary and secondary education, Ido not think that it is wise that we should have too many seeking to have the secondary education and filling the highest professions, for, as a rule, you will find the professions are now moro than filled sufficiently for the interest of the professions and those engaged therein, in fact, there are too many lawyers, too many doctors, and too many engaged in clerical work—or men who have had superior education fitting them for these positions. I find now that they are absolutely in a deplorable condition in the

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colony If I wanted to-morrow a clerk at £2 per week in the City of Wellington, and called for applications, I would have from two to three hundred applicants, and any amount of these same men would be men who had received a collegiate education. If I wanted a man for the position of tradesman, or an artisan for the better class of trade, I should find that I could get very few and those I did get I should have to pay £3 per week to. New if I wanted some young man to take charge of a farm, and that man was required to understand chemistry as applied to agriculture, and to have a knowledge of geology, I should find very few in the colony in other words, if I asked for young men to fill the better positions, much more permanent and better paid than clerical work, or even the professions, I could not get them. This is a mistake that has been made, there are too many of the one class, and not enough of the other The parents should always consider this—namely, the great drag these youths are upon their parents, not while they are at college, but when they leave it. They want to get something, and the parents take perhaps four or five years before they can do so. In the meantime they have to clothe them well, keep them in a firstclass position, compatible with the professions they are eager to enter, and in many cases the parents are not in a position to do it. The same would apply to most of the girls. The mothers seek a great position for their daughters—go to great expense teaching them the piano and other accomplishments , but they do not teach them what all women should know—the position and duties of a wife and mother, and to do what would be required of them in after-life. Now, there are any amount of girls who can sing and play the piano, do a little drawing, and dance to perfection , but if you asked them to cook some food, asked them to make their own underclothing, to knit you a pair of stockings, to mend your clothes ; or even their own clothes, you would find they would not be able to do it. The neglect lies, of course, with the mother and parents, because they have been—what we call in English—creeping up on a bad foundation , because these accomplishments should be given with the former I have mentioned, but the latter are absolutely essential and necessary lam now bringing you to a point where I want to use what I have just now said simply as an illustration. I say if you will see that your children go through the Sixth Standard in the primary schools, and are well up in the subjects, and pass well in such standard, they are then sufficiently well educated, and able to hold the best positions in the colony You take the number that pass satisfactorily the Sixth or Seventh Standard—which is, of course, attached to most of the schools—and you will find there is a very small percentage. Now, it is simply madness to attempt to send any boy to college who has not passed the Sixth or Seventh Standard in the public schools. If a child in the primary schools shows superior natural ability, and proves his or her superiority over the others, then there is the system, by means of scholarship, which enables the parent to send the child to any district High School in the colony Whether some special facilities should be given in regard to this phase of the question in reference to our Native schools is a matter for inquiry, and I will look into it. I will see, to show I am sincere in dealing with this question, what the position is. I will get a return of the number of youths of both standards who are in the Native schools north of Auckland. If you ask for the Sixth Standard in your schools, you are only asking for what you should have , and I say at once, you are entitled to it, and should have it. If the children are only being taught up to the .Fourth Standard, what is the use of talking about secondary schools ? They must first advance to the Sixth and Seventh Standards then you could talk about a higher. The children should be taught up to the Sixth and Seventh Standards in their schools at home— that is the remedy If the matter is brought before the Government, I shall certainly say you should have this done. If you were to ask that there should be some school centrally situated, which required an increased building, an increased staff, a staff competent to teach up to the Sixth and Seventh Standards, and that such school should subsequently be made a district High School, then, I think, that is a step in the right direction. In reference thereto I will have inquiries made, and see whether something can be done, for I do see the danger of children going to a place where they contract disease. I can understand that, and Ido not think it is right that children who only get past the Fourth Standard should be sent from school. You want a school where they teach up to the Sixth or Seventh Standard, and you should ask that it be made a district High School. When you have asked that, you can ask for a teacher to come and teach the higher subjects afterwards. I will discuss the matter with the Minister of Education on my return to Wellington. Of course lam Premier, but I have not the management of the Education Department. However, I know this that the Minister of Education is most anxious to assist, and so are all my colleagues. Yesterday I was very hospitably entertained, and was very much pleased at meeting the Natives, but to-day is to me a great pleasure, and my visit here—a much greater pleasure than any I enjoyed yesterday. lam pleased to find the parents of the children here taking such an interest in their education. This proves they are good parents, and the children will in after-life bless them for it. I should now like to hear the children, if the teacher will take them in hand. The Premier, after hearing the children read and sing, expressed himself as much satisfied. He told them they had now an opportunity of obtaining education, and without that education their position in life would be a worse one than if they were educated. He hoped they were good children, and regular attendants at school. The party then proceeded on their journey to Kawerua, and thence via Helensville, Kaukapakapa, and Warkworth to Auckland, where they remained two days before proceeding by steamer to Whakatane via Tauranga. The Premier received several deputations of Europeans at each of the above places, but the meetings with Natives were only resumed at Whakatane where a large meeting was held on the arrival of the Premier from Tauranga. The first speaker was Tamati Waaka. He said, —Welcome the Premier to Whakatane, that you may see the people of this part of the country and hear matters which may be laid before you. These are the congratulations I have to offer you. I will now address my remarkjs to the Hon. Mr. Carroll. Welcome, Mr Carroll, you who have come here with the Premier, and brought him to

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Whakatane to see the Ngatiawa and Ngatipukeko. I will now sing a song of welcome. (Song.) Welcome to Whakatane, that you may hear what these two tribes, Ngatiawa and Ngatipukeko, have to say Mokai said, —■Wβ welcome you to Whakatane, that you may come to see these of your children. We are here dwelling as orphans seeking for parents —some one to be a father unto us. We have now found a father in you. We rejoice at your coming, and hence it is we accord to you the welcome we now give. I will now address myself to Mr Carroll. Welcome, 0 friend We welcome you whom we twice returned as our representative in Parliament. Now you have come to us we welcome you. Let us know the laws that are good, and the laws that are evil, so that we may hear These are all the congratulations we propose to offer you. Tiaki Bewiri said, —I belong to Whakatane, and my hapu is Patuwai. Salutations to you, the Minister of Native Affairs, and your colleague !My congratulations will be brief. Salutations to you the people who have done good for the tribes, and given relief in these burdensome times to both the hapus of Ngatiawa and Ngatipukeko. This ends my congratulations. I wish to speak to you now about the Native Equitable Owners Act, which was passed in 1886, the operation of which was extended over the land in this district last year The Native reserves in the Whakatane district were Crown-granted under special grants in 1876, which Act brought trouble on the people, and that trouble was only cleared away by the legislation of last year or the year preceding. There is one clause in that Act, clause 5, which we ask the Premier to have amended. The clause provides that the money should pass into the hands of the Public Trustee—that is, the rent-money is that the Public Trustee should dispose of these moneys. I now apply to the Government for the lessee to pay these moneys to the Maoris or known owners —that the rents should be paid direct to the owners by the lessee. Ido not object to the whole of clause 5, but I object to the Public Trustee disposing of these moneys. That is our only objection—that we do not wish this matter to be dealt with by the Public Trustee. That is the only explanation I have to give with reference to that clause. Now, this is the second matter I wish to touch upon Trouble has come upon us through the action of the Government and the Eoad Boards. In 1876 we leased a certain piece of land as a site for a flour-mill, £400 was the price paid to the Government. At that time there were no written agreements. We applied for the land to be returned to us, and we only got two acres. It was arranged we should get four acres, but we only got two, and now we find the two acres we have do not include the dam where the water was. The land was afterwards leased to a European named William Kelly, but it did not include the dam. The land now, including the dam, has gone to Europeans, and we want the dam given back to us, and the four acres—that is, two acres in addition to what we have already got. This is a very great grievance of which we have to complain, and we earnestly hope the Government will give it full consideration. Now, this is the third point upon which I wish to speak, and that is with respect to the landing-site on the river. Mr Eichardson was Minister of Lands at the time. When the Minister arrived here in 1889 or 1890—I am not certain which—in consequence of an application I made to him on behalf of my people, he agreed to that site being a landing-place for our canoes. The area of that land was fifteen acres, and it was all sand. I explained the whole situation clearly to him, and that Minister agreed we ( should have it for a landing-place, but we have received no document showing we have a right to , that place. The promise of the Minister was not reduced to writing. Therefore it is that I now apply to the Native Minister that we may now have this matter finally and satisfactorily settled. Considerable difficulty has also arisen between us and the Europeans because of our going through their land. Therefore I ask you to see to this matter at once, for it is the cause of a great deal of trouble—having to pass through European lands. I wish you all prosperity Mauparaoa I belong to the Ngatirangititihi and Ngatipukeko. Salutations to you, Mr Carroll ■ —you who have been absent from this district, but have again appeared amongst us. lam the only one of my hapu here, still I welcome you. Salutations to you, accompanied as you are by the Premier I heartily welcome both you and the Premier to this part of the country, that you both may hear what the tribes of Whakatane have to say Salutations to you both, Omy friends I have no further welcome to give you here, but ask you to go to Galatea, because there is an important matter to be dealt with there. Although it may be supposed you have only come to see the Tuhoe—the Ur.ewera —there is also good reason why you should go and see the people at Galatea, because we want to sell you our land. Should you arrive at Galatea, we can then talk of disposing of our land to the Government. These are the only subjects I have to speak about. Hurinui Apanui I will first welcome Mr Carroll, in accordance with Native custom. Welcome to you, my cousin! I regret so many of our old people have passed away You bring with you the king of the island, come and receive the good wishes of the people, you bring with you the treasures of the colony This is the ancient landing-place of our ancestors, who brought their canoes from Hawaiki. It was here the ancient canoes of Te Arawa and Matatua arrived. Of these two canoes, Arawa landed at Maketu, and Matatua at Whakatane. These two canoes contained all the chiefs of these tribes, therefore it is right the chiefs should reassemble on this spot. Tour canoe, Takitimu, passed down the East Coast. You had controlling power on your canoe, as we had on ours, Arawa and Matatua. Welcome again to you both, who have been all over the island. Salutations to you, the Premier, who is at the head of the affairs of this colony , you who have penetrated through all parts of the colony , you who have seen the good and bad parts of the colony Welcome, that you may see the descendants of those who came by the canoe Matatua — these, the remnants, who are now before you. This is the prow of the canoe here in Whakatane. Maungapohatau and. Buatahuna are the stern of the canoe. Welcome, the Premier, this day ! Bring over the light, and let its rays be shed on us to-day Many Ministers have stood with this canoe in days gone by, from the time of Sir Donald McLean to the present time, but now we have the Premier standing on the bulwarks of Matatua. Let him be clear in what is to be done with regard to these tribes, who trace their origin from those who came in the Matatua canoe, 7—G. 1.

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because there is no one beyond you, 0 Premier to think and decide. There is no one but yourself, for you are the alpha and omega. Here lam standing up as one of the Ngatiawa Tribe. To-mor-row I will meet you as a member of the Urewera Tribe, as I am connected with both parties. I will, therefore, close what I have to say There are many at Euatoki who will welcome you as I have to-day I will now speak to you with reference to a matter which was touched upon by Tiaki Eewiri —it was in reference to the mill. I corroborate what he said. All that property—four acres —that was given to us by the Government was improperly diverted. The trouble that exists in reference to that matter is with the dam. We now ask the Government to comply with Tiaki Eewiri's request—that the dam may be assured to us. Although this may be a matter which the Premier, who is also Native Minister, may not have to deal with, nevertheless we lay it fully before him Now, with regard to the schoolhouse at Otamauru. The children have been attending school there for years, it is merely a raupo whare, and the children have been getting instruction in the raupo whare. It is very incommodious. What we would wish you to do would be to grant us a weatherboard house. Even though you may not grant us this request, we, at any rate, ask for a weatherboard building of some sort. The Premier . How many children are attending the school? Hurinui Apanui About forty-six, with an average of thirty-four Another matter is with regard to surveying a site for a school. No survey has yet been made of a site upon which a school should be erected. The Premier You are in error the site has been surveyed. Hurinui Apanui I will now conclude my remarks by wishing the Premier and the Hon. Mr Carroll long life and happiness. Meihana Kohata I belong to Ngatipukeko. Salutations to you, the members of Parliament, who have been chosen by the House to visit us at Whakatane. We greatly rejoice at your coming amongst us. May you live for ever —all of you. We would like you to visit Te Poro Poro to-morrow I represent Ngatipukeko, and I request you to visit Te Poro Poro to-morrow We have very many subjects to discuss and bring under your notice. We therefore hope you will visit us and come to our place to-morrow, for this reason that we are a tribe living upon lands reserved for us out of territory confiscated by the Government. Therefore I ask you to visit us at our principal settlement, and to hear what we have to say, and hear what all the Ngatipukeko have to say and put before you, and that we may hear what you have to say I hope you will consent to go there tomorrow, and let us know now If you will consent to visit us as I have requested, I will leave all subjects for discussion until then, so that the whole tribe may know what has been said. The Premier It is rather difficult for me to visit each of these places with the time at my disposal, and if there are sufficient representatives here to do justice to the tribes and the subjects they have to bring forward I would prefer to hear them now, and I can then be the best judge. Tamati Waaka : When I first stood up to speak, it was simply to offer my congratulations to the Premier and to the Hon. Mr. Carroll. I now rise to say that Meihana Kohata's application to you to visit us at our settlement is correct, and I think you both ought to go there. I shall be very glad if the Premier and Mr. Carroll can see their way to fall in with the views expressed by the last speaker, Meihana Kohata, and visit Poro Poro, because the Ngatipukeko have many very important matters to bring before the Government, hence it is that I support the request that Meihana Kohata has made. There is another matter I wish to speak to the Premier about it is with reference to a bridge. I presume the Europeans have already spoken to you about it. That bridge should be erected in the vicinity of Poro Poro. We with the Europeans are equally anxious that this bridge should be erected, and that the discussion should take place at Poro Poro, and that the Europeans and Maoris should both take part in that discussion —for this reason that this bridge goes through our common land. It is important to us that this matter should be discussed there, as it affects our land. Therefore I say we should all meet together at Poro Poro. We hope our request will be granted, as the Premier is now here to listen to what is to be said by all parties, and we do not know when he will be able to visit us again. Tiwai I come from Opotiki, my tribal name from my forefathers in old times was Awa. That is from here right up to Tauranga. You, the Premier, now sitting before me, are a perfect stranger I see you now for the first time. Before you was the Hon. Mr. Ballance, who visited this place. I hear, Mr Premier, you came here with the Hon. Mr Carroll, that you want roads throughout the North Island from Whakatane to Gisborne. One of my principal reasons for commg here was to speak to the Premier Ido not wish to go back to the works of our grandfathers, or even our fathers. I have known many Governments —Sir George Grey, together with his friends. Tiaki Eewiri, Ngatiawa, Ngatipukeko, and Tuhoe have claimed, the Euatoki Block, and Tuhoe created trouble in connection with the survey of it. If you visit Euatoki possibly something will be said about this survey and these lands, therefore I think it should be spoken about here, that the Premier may know what they have to say here in Whakatane. There are three applications before the Native Land Court in reference to that block. There is a second application by Numia, also another application from the Ngatipukeko. I am most anxious that the Native Land Court should speedily adjudicate upon this block, Euatoki, so that there may be no further adjournments, so that it may be known definitely who are the persons who own that land. I urge strongly on behalf of the Ngatiawa that the Native Land Court proceed with the investigation of the titles to this block Euatoki-—for this simple reason, that our applications were the first lodged. It was only on the application of Tuhoe that the survey was authorised and made. We, therefore, now ask the Government that there should be no further delay in bringing the matter before the Court. Mr Biddle, a European, whose wife was interested in the block, supported the last speaker Hon. Mr Carroll Salutations to you, the people who dwell in this part of the country—the tribes of Ngatiawa and Ngatipukeko! Salutations to you who recall to my mind the memory of our old people and the past times. Salutations to you who are here to represent your fathers

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who have passed away—following in tho footsteps of those who are no longer amongst us. Governments have come and Governments have passed away, and in this way have our parents and our parents' parents passed away from off the face of the earth, and so it will go on. We are now searching out in these days, endeavouring to ascertain the proper path whereby we may proceed. Hence it is that the power of the land is exerted now m the earnest endeavour that good may be achieved, and therefore it is that the Premier, who is also Native Minister, accompanies me that he may visit the children of the soil. It would not be so satisfactory if you were merely communicating with the Premier by telegraph or letter It is infinitely better that you should see him and he see you face to face, that he may see the land itself, and the survivors of the race who are occupying it. The Native race is not able to suppress the growing desire of the more powerful race, the Europeans. The European race is the dominant race in this island at the present time, they are passing some very great laws in the great Assembly House of the colony, and whatever the Native race may do, even though they appoint their own Parliament, and go away into corners and endeavour to pass legislation for themselves, they cannot detach themselves from the ruling forces at work in the colony The salvation of the Native race will be to become united and work as one with the Europeans, and give their attention to dealing with the lands in the best and most profitable way, and for the benefit of all parties concerned. In my opinion the Native race should give in their strict adherence to the Government, and the Government would be to them as a father unto his children, and by that means the Native race will gain advantages. If the Maori race remain as an orphan, as one who has lost its parent, there will be no guiding influence, one tribe will go in one direction and one in another, and no good will come of it, but, I say, let the Natives work in a consolidated manner You are possessed of vast areas of land, and what are you doing with it? There is a great deal of talk about it, but what good is being produced from it ? The land is lying idle, nothing is being done. The land is as a mother to us all. Just compare what you do with your lands and what the Europeans do with theirs. If the European possesses a single acre he renders it productive, but you who have thousands of acres allow your land to remain unproductive and useless, your land passes away from you and then you raise your voice and clamour loudly I think you should deal with your lands in conformity with the Act passed last session. Keep as much as you can utilise for yourselves, and the surplus lands which you cannot utilise, pass them over to the Government, and they will deal with them so that they will become profitable to you. The Act I refer to lays down distinctly how your best interests can be conserved. That is a matter which my friend the Premier will refer to presently An innovation introduced by the present Government in the transfer of land will prove to your benefit. It is that, by selling the land to the Government, the owners can draw interest on the purchase-money, and by this means every year the accruing interest of this money would be drawn, while the principal would remain intact. By this means the Natives are assured of a regular income in case of misfortune befalling them, for they still have the annual interest on the purchase-money coming to them. This is a new feature in the policy of the present Government, and it is for the tribes now to benefit from the advantages that system offers. You all complained that the laws passed acted injuriously towards you. Supposing I were to say to you, "What law should we have?" could you answer it? We know the evils of the past, it is for us now to determine what remedies should be adopted to correct those errors. Sir Donald McLean has passed away, he who was as a parent to you. Since his time many troubles have arisen. We wish now to bring back- to life the good understanding that formerly existed. Let the Government be again your parent, so that you may work together My friend the Premier is not a Minister against the Native race, he is a Minister who is desirous of looking after the very best interests of the Natives. He is head of Native affairs in this colony, he is at the summit. I have spoken to you only in a general way The Premier himself will presently address you. I will speak of the Premier as I have seen him, and this I assert, that whatever he says he will do he will stick to. In addressing him there is no occasion to beat about the bush or go in a roundabout way to give effect to your utterances. Speak straight-out, and he will speak straight-out to you. I will say another word to you—the land owned by the Natives not yet adjudicated upon cannot be allowed to remain in that state, the titles must be ascertained, the law must be brought into operation, so that the owners may be determined, and individual interests known and ascertained, once that is done, you are then free to utilise the land. I do not wish to take up any more of your time. I have only just touched upon the headings of things. There is one who will speak after me who will probably deal more fully with these matters. In conclusion, I wish to thank you for the kind reception you have given us to-day lam glad to have the pleasure of meeting those who supported me in my former contest, when representing the Eastern Maori District on two distinct occasions, at the general elections, and returned me as their representative in Parliament. In this more recent contest I decided to represent a European constituency, and it was with this object that we the Natives should pull together with the European races, not to retrace our steps and go back to the old Maori ways, which do not now fit in, and, furthermore, I felt that in representing a European constituency I would be able to do justice to my fellow-countrymen the Natives, as well as the Europeans. With regard to the request made about going to Poro Poro, my friend the Premier will speak in reference to that. The distance from here to Poro Poro is short, and there should be no difficulty in the people of Poro Poro coming here to Whakatane. However, the question of moving about is of small importance. The Premier will think over it by-and-by The Premier I was so very pleased with the song of welcome with which you greeted me that I would like to have it in my ears before I commence to speak. Tamati Waaka here repeated the song of welcome. At the conclusion the Premier said, —I thank you very kindly indeed. I desire to express to all here of the Native race the very great pleasure indeed that I feel in being with them to-day It is to me all the more pleasant because the way in which they have spoken to me shows that they

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have confidence that lamin a position and am willing to help them. It is true that this very spot upon which we all are at the present moment is historical, from the fact that the two canoes came here—one the Arawa, and the other Matatua. You ha,ve reminded me of the fact that those who came in the canoes were all rangatiras —all chiefs. Now, when these canoes landed here, the people who were in them had left their own lands, and had only one idea, and that was to improve their condition and to make a home for those who were left behind. There was only one good feeling in the breasts of all—only one good desire, no ill-feeling existed. They were all as one man, and so that continued for many years. The first trouble that came over them was in connection with the land. Then the Europeans came, many years afterwards, and further trouble arose, and that was caused through the men. Instead, then, of agreeing as brothers—instead of living in peace together—because there was quite enough land for all—they commenced to destroy each other This evil state of things continued for some time there was great loss of life, and many evils overtook both races. Then the forefathers of those present, the chiefs of the Native race, held a conference. They saw that the European race was increasing in large numbers, and the Natives were decreasing, that unless some position was established on a more satisfactory footing it probably meant the extermination of their children. The result of this was the signing of the Treaty of Waitangi. Now, the principles contained in that treaty were—first, that the Native race was to admit the sovereignty of the British Government—the sovereignty of the Queen —and from that day forward the Native race were to be her children just the same as the pakehas, that their welfare was to be attended to , that they were to have protection that- no one else should interfere with them, and that she—the Queen —would give them the same protection she gave her liege subjects at Home. And she conceded that they were to be the owners of the land. There were also certain privileges conceded as regards the fishing rights which had been established, and •which it was considered good for the Native race should be reserved to them your forefathers at the same time agreeing, on your behalf, that in dealing with their lands they were only to deal through the Government—that is, the Queen. The wisdom of that course has been apparent, because wherever there has been a departure therefrom trouble has overtaken both races. We must all, therefore, admit that the principles of that treaty originated with men who knew what they were doing—men who could see a long distance ahead, and lam sure that if some of your forefathers had only had an opportunity they would have left some mark behind to prevent a departure from this treaty, and would have taken steps on behalf of the Native race—would have left some command —so that a departure could not have taken place. This day the Government—Her Majesty the Queen, and those under her who are governing this country—are quite prepared—and I speak on their behalf—l say it is our desire to maintain the position that was then agreed upon by both races. I also desire to inform you of this that lam sure Her Majesty's representative in this colony, the Governor, is very pleased indeed that I, as head of the Government, with my colleague here, have gone to considerable trouble and endured fatigue to visit Her Majesty's subjects, the Native race, in all parts of this Island , and the reason we consider this journey necessary arises from the fact that there is nothing like meeting people face to face , by opening our minds to each other, by speaking to each other as men desirous of doing good to both races —it is only by this that good can obtain. It may have been instilled into your minds—some one may have told you —that the Prime Minister was an enemy to the Native race, or that I was a person who had no kindness in my disposition, that I would not listen to the Natives, or treat them as I would the pakeha. Now, it is to me just as much pleasure to meet you, to hear you speak your minds to me, and to know your minds —I say it is just as much pleasure to me as though I were meeting a number of Europeans, and they were speaking their minds to me, Even before your words of welcome were interpreted to me I could see by your manner and the way in which I was received here to-day, that you were all glad to meet me. I knew that I was amongst friends ; and I want you to understand clearly that in me you have a sincere friend —not one who will use smooth words to you, use words which have no meaning—one who will make promises to you and not perform them—but one who wishes to treat you as a father would treat his children—telling them what is in their best interest determined to do nothing but what is in their interest. You told me to-day you were like orphans waiting for their father to arrive that you recognised in me, as head of the Government and head of the colony, one who would see to the orphans of this district. Of course, we are only speaking figuratively , still, at the same time, now that I have seen the district and the condition in which you are in, I should say you are orphans—in fact, I should say you are as stepchildren whose father has not been kind to them. Now, the fault does not lie with those who have been in the same position I occupy—there have been many Governments and many Native Ministers —but the fault does not lie with the Government—the fault lies with the Natives themselves. They have not agreed amongst themselves they have remained, as it were, antagonistic to the Government, antagonistic to the pakeha. Not by openly resisting the laws—though there has been resistance to what the Europeans intended for your welfare —your minds have been poisoned by designing persons, and you have refused to listen to your best friends. You are wealthy beyond your own knowledge, rich beyond conception, if you only knew it. If any of the Europeans in this country owned as much land as you Natives here, they would be considered—and actually would be—very wealthy persons indeed. And yet, what do I find? I find, on looking all round, that there is no prosperity —in fact, the Natives scarcely know where their food for the season is to come from. You go on like that year after year, your numbers are dwindling down gradually, and you are surely passing from off the face of the earth. Now, lam grieved, as head of the Government, —and I speak for Her Majesty the Queen and for her representative here in the colony,—when I say that all her subjects are sorry to see a noble race passing away, and those who remain in the state of almost abject poverty in which we find them, and I am sure your wise men, your chiefs, see that they are passing away—see that the young children are dying off, that men do not live to mature age as they used to, but see sickness and ill-health overtaking them. Your wise men, I say, see this just as well as I do. Your pakeha neighbours who are living near you, and

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•with whom you are on very good terms, also see that you are passing away, and say, " Cannot this be stopped?" Then this causes the thinking men of the Native race, and also of the European race, to reflect, and we say, then, surely something can be done to prevent this. Now, the result of these reflections has been given effect to by the Parliament, because the Parliament speaks both for the Europeans and the Native race , and laws have been passed in the interest of the Native race, and which, if given effect to, and taken in the spirit intended, will go a long distance to prevent the races from disappearing from the face of the earth, and will certainly improve the condition of the Native race. You said here to-day that you were pleased to meet me and my colleague, because you said we had brought laws, and would explain these laws to you. You spoke truthfully, we do bring with us the law. My colleague very shortly touched upon the laws passed. I will go further into that law In your interest we must commence with this assumption first that as the Natives stand to-day with large tracts of land which they cannot use themselves, and are not using, but which require to be used for their benefit as well as the Europeans, that condition of affairs cannot exist any longer As pointed out by the Hon. Mr Carroll, my colleague, the Europeans use the land, and cause it to produce so that they can live. The Natives are not utilising much of the land they own. The great trouble with them is that one does not like to improve the land because he is improving for another—some one else gets the benefit. This uncertain state of affairs keeps the country unimproved. Therefore, we must, in the interest of the Natives, ascertain who it is that owns the land, and lam sure in this very district the feeling exists amongst the different tribes and hapus that they are not able amongst themselves to decide who the land belongs to. One disagrees—one claims it, others dispute it, and I find within a certain radius here that this feeling exists, and it is not in your interest or the interest of the Europeans. Now, if the title to the land was ascertained, and every one knew who it belonged to, these disputes would be settled once and for all, and adjusted fairly, you would be all on the very best of terms, and there would be a kindly feeling existing amongst you. Now, some have petitioned to have the land put through the Court, and get it surveyed. Others object to its being surveyed, and even break the law, and will not permit the titles to be ascertained. The position is this Speaking for the people here, one of the speakers said, "We desire that the Government should ascertain the titles and put the land through the Court." Well, that is his wish , he speaks, of course, for those interested. Where I go to-morrow they may oppose this being done. They may say to me, as head of the Government, "We do not wish this to be done." Now, I always have this feeling that those who do not want the land to go through the Court appear as if they were afraid, and this weakens their case , but I will not come to a conclusion until I have heard the other side. I will hear them and see if they have any objection. I will treat the Natives as I would treat the Europeans. I will hear all they have to say, and then decide. But I will tell you this : the Parliament has given me power to say that, whether the owners want it or not, whether they object or not, the power rests with the Government of saying that the titles to the land must be ascertained. So that, even though all opposed it, the power is with the Government to say the titles to the land shall be ascertained. I wish you to distinctly understand this, for it is to your interests. And this great power that is given to me and given to the Government, we intend to use but at the same time we intend to use it ( mercifully, the same as a father would use it in the interest of his children whom he loves so dearly Now, when we have done this, the owners of the land will be in a position to do two things . First, they will be able to know where their own particular land lies, and if they want to go upon it and cultivate it they can do so, fence it in, and live upon it. You will then be in the same position as the pakehas. If there is more land awarded to you than you can utilise, or than you want for your families, then the law provides that you can either sell it or lease it under the same laws the Government lease Crown lands to the Europeans , and, so that you shall not be unfairly dealt with, there is a Board appointed to value the land and fix a fair value for the Natives, and on that Board there is a Native Commissioner and the member for the Native race for the district. The others are Government officials, who have no interest except in seeing there is a fair value given to the Natives for the land. If they are satisfied with the decision of the Board as to the value of the land, and two-thirds of the owners of the land object, then the land is put up to public auction and disposed of, so that you will therefore see that, whilst we have taken those great powers I have alluded to as regards ascertaining the titles, still the principle is laid down that you must only dispose of the surplus lands, and at such a price as is fair to you. I desire, in conclusion, while speaking on this subject, to impress upon you this fact ■ that the Government is standing between you and six hundred thousand Europeans. The pressure is becoming greater and greater every year The Europeans are very much irritated because there is no land upon which they can go. The Natives, they say, are not cultivating the land, and there it remains in a state of nature. Every week that this position is maintained is against the Natives. The laws now passed are very fair, and if advantage is not taken of them—if the Natives do not accept what we have been able to get for them now, I fear they will have cause to regret it. As one taking a father's interest in you, lam here to-day asking you to assist me in solving this difficult problem. Now, I desire also to tell you that, in ascertaining the titles, the Government are determined to avoid the great expense you were formerly put to, and I believe it has been the great expense of the past that has prevented the Natives from getting the land put through the Court. One way of lessening the expense of putting the land through the Court is for the Government to put their officers where the large majority of the Natives are located. All the Government has to do is to take two or three officers and locate them where the majority of the Natives are. There are scores of your wives and children who have to go where the Court is ; they are put to great expense for food, and evils overtake them, which, I think, would be avoided if we establish the Courts where the majority of the Natives are located. Now, you may ask me what proof the Government has given that they are your friends. My answer is, We are, because to-day you have informed me that you are very pleased we have passed the Equitable Owners Act. The injustice of the Act of 1876 was remedied by the Act passed last session. This Act gives you fair-play.

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You have asked for amendments, you desire that moneys received here as rental should be paid to you direct, instead of being sent to Wellington and paid to the Public Trustee. I will see what can be done iv that respect, and if it cannot be done at less expense. The matter shall receive my serious consideration. There have been very great evils existing in the past, and I will tell you why Moneys have been received by trustees for minors, and the trustees have never given the money to those whom it belonged to, and it is to prevent anything of that kind arising that the Public Trustee has been appointed to receive these moneys. If, therefore, we can arrange that the same security be given, so that the right persons shall get the money, and be put to less expense, the Government will try to bring that about. Now, as regards this site for a dam. The land has, I believe, passed away from the Government, and where the dam is now located is land belonging to the School Commissioners, and it has been given to them as an endowment, and I fear they will not be prepared to give it up unless they are compensated. When asking for the land, it is a great pity you did not ask to have the land put in the right position, when giving the boundaries you excluded the right to the dam. If, on inquiry, I find the position is different to what I have been informed, then I may be able to rectify matters, but at present I have been informed that where the dam now is is an endowment given to the School Commissioners, and the Chief Commissioner of Crown Lands for the Auckland District is the authority for my making this statement. If it were still Crown land, there would not be much difficulty in dealing with it; but not being Crown land, the Government have no more control over it than the Natives. The question raised was that four acres were asked for originally, and only two acres were received. You now ask for the four acres, because it would give you this site for a dam. This is like locking the stable-door when the horse has gone the land has gone from the Government. However, I will make inquiries into the matter, and ascertain how the mistake came to be made. The next question I come to is the landing-place. I was told that the Minister who was here some time ago promised that what you ask should be conceded. When Ministers make promises they should always keep them. I was asked to-day to give a written document, because it was inferred, I suppose, that, having got the promise of a previous Minister, and not knowing me, you wished to have a written document to insure the promise being carried out. I can give you better than a written document, because I can give you the information that what you wish has already been conceded , the place has been gazetted as a landing reserve. My colleague, Mr Cadman, who was the Native Minister before me, sent a direct communication here that this landing-place is absolutely gazetted. I will not give anything in writing, because if I were to do so it would be casting a doubt upon myself. It was a young man who asked me to give this in writing. If he had lived a few years ago, and had asked the rangatira of his tribe to give him anything in writing after his word had been passed, the rangatira would have considered himself insulted. I want the young representatives of the Native race to be in the same position as their forefathers. I want them to hold to the principle that when once their word is spoken it can be relied on, and I am sure that, if that is the case, they will beget the confidence of the pakehas, and, on the other hand, I wish the pakehas, when dealing with the Natives, to behave as gentlemen and honourable men, and keep their words. As regards not keeping to their word, I think the Natives have learnt that bad habit from the Europeans. I will look up the Gazette, and send you a copy of it, §/nd if there is anything further required to complete the promise that was made you may rest assured it will be done. It is just as well that the landing reserve was marked, so that the Natives should know what land they owned, and avoid unpleasantness with the Europeans, thus placing them in an independent position. lam grieved to hear that your rights to the land have been disputed. I do not like to hear of your being treated with contempt by the Europeans. I do not think that is right. I know it is things of that kind which create bad feeling. Now, I will conclude by referring to the position as regards my work to-morrow I was told that the key was here that would fit the lock of any door in New Zealand. What is the use of the key being here and in the lock when the Natives themselves will not turn it ? I have told you to-day that the door is here , I told you the key is in the door, and it rests with yourselves whether you turn it and open the door to prosperity for yourselves and your children after you. All that is required of you in your own interests is to see that the land wanted for yourselves is reserved, that the balance of the land—the surplus land—is dealt with so that there may be an annual sum of money given to every one of the individual owners year by year When the pakeha wants to make provision for himself in his old age, he purchases what is known as an annuity You are now in a position, if you like, to insure that yourselves and your children after you receive a sum of money every year When the pakeha wants to provide for his children after he is dead, he insures his life. Now, you are in a position, every one of you, to insure your lives both for yourselves and your wives and children after you—a sum of money every year so long as the grass grows and the water runs. What you are doing with the land to-day is of no value to you whatever —you get nothing from it, and yet that very thing can be converted into an annuity for yourselves and your children for all time. What I allude to is the disposal of surplus lands. When you sell, you can take one-half cash and one-half in debentures, or if you like you can, at your own option, put it all in debentures. Now, a debenture is a piece of paper with the stamp of the Government upon it—with the Queen's crown upon it—and the Queen undertakes every year, if the surplus land sold is worth, say, a hundred pounds, to pay five pounds. She would say to whoever got that piece of paper, " Here is five pounds for you." Now, that paper could not go to any one else but the one who got that piece of paper, and whose name was upon it. If trouble overtook you —even though you were compelled to go through the Bankruptcy Court—still that debenture and the interest payable thereon is not transferable, and cannot be attached for debt. It is only the property of the one who gives the land and has got the debenture. Now, if you do not want to sell the land, but prefer to lease it, the Government has taken power by the Act of last session to advance you 4 per cent, of the value of the land you offer to lease, so that you can have something to live upon. I have just put these things to you so that you will understand that I have not come here to-day promising, but to show what we have actually done for you.

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The law is upon the statute-book, and if you like to take advantage of it you can do so to-morrow Well, now, I will tell you what pained me very much yesterday I was told that Hori Ngati, of Tauranga, had sent messengers ahead of me endeavouring to injure the Native race by saying you were to take up a negative position—that you were not to listen to the Prime Minister I only mention this because, if it is true, he is no friend of the Native race. I would like to know from any one here whether they have heard anything of this. I do not want to do him an injustice, I simply want to find out whether there is any foundation for this rumour If you have heard anything of that, you had better speak to me through your chief, and let me know Let Mr Carroll know later on, because lam determined to get to the bottom of this. If I find people poisoning the minds of the Native race against what is in their best interest, and endeavouring to frustrate what we are striving to do on their behalf, I intend to take very strong measures indeed in reference to those people, and it is all the more grievous where the person pretends to be friendly to the Government, and is receiving favours from the Government, and at the same time behind the back of the Government is doing them an injury, and an injury to his own people. If you have heard anything of this you can tell my colleague, and I shall be very pleased indeed, because it is in your own interest to help me to prevent any misconduct of that kind. I now come to the most pleasant thing that has happened this afternoon. Nothing gave me so much pleasure as the request made for school-accommodation. Now, to see to the education of your children was one of the promises made on behalf of the Queen when your forefathers agreed tc acknowledge her sovereignty, and become her people, and I shall do all that I can to give effect to that condition. I look upon the education of the Native race, and the establishment of these schools, as being of paramount importance. Under the altered circumstances in which we live, if you do not receive an education, then you will be compelled for all time to hold inferior positions. We have proved by those who have gone to our schools and colleges that you have intellect, and your children only require an opportunity to go to the schools to hold the same positions as the pakehas. Nothing gives me greater pleasure than to find representatives of the Native race in the Government service. I have seen them in different departments, I have seen them in commercial positions, and I would like to see them much more numerous than they are throughout the colony Those parents who neglect to give their children an opportunity of receiving an education are not good parents, they are doing their children a very grievous wrong. But you bring it home to the Government when you say you send your children (and there is an average attendance of over thirty-four) to this raupo building. The school site has been surveyed, and on my return to Wellington I will see the Minister of Education, and will tell him that, as Minister for Public Works, I shall be only too glad to put up a building for you, so that your children can go to a decent school, and if we prove our sincerity by putting up a building, we hope you will prove that you are sincere by sending your children to that school. Now, as regards to-morrow, to-day was rather wet, as you know, and the distance from Poro Poro to here not being more than two miles, the Natives there ought to have come and seen me. It was not for me to go and see them, when it was only two miles to come. People who have serious business to bring before the Prime Minister, business that affects them more than the Prime Minister, and where the business is almost of life and death, it seems strange to me that they would not go two miles to meet the Minister and tell him their business. They want a bridge, I believe, as well as the Europeans. The latter came ten and twelve miles to-day to let me know this bridge was wanted. Well, if the pakehas can come twelve miles to let me know their wants, surely the Natives could have come two miles to let me know theirs; but I was told what they had to say to me, and they desired the whole tribe should hear it. I suppose they meant the women and children there was, however, nothing to stop the men coming here. Probably the women and children could not come, therefore they want me to come and talk to them. lam not afraid to meet women, and I love children , but it is an unusual request, if that is what they wanted me to do, to go and meet their women and children. If to-morrow —as Igo past —time will permit me to spend a few minutes at Poro Poro, I shall have very great pleasure in seeing them. But the time will be very short, and it would have been much better to have let me know to-day what they wanted than to-morrow But probably lam doing them an injustice, perhaps it is only Maori custom —that they would like me to go and visit theic village, so that they could give me a welcome there, and I will accept it in that spirit. Now, I am asked to go to Galatea. lam a stranger in this part of the colony, and do not know how far it is, and what road I should have to go. I have been asked to go to some strange places during this trip; at one place I was asked to cross the Jordan, at another I was asked to go to Jerusalem. Where Galatea is Ido not know, and Ido not know whether you have got a Galilee or not, but the business I was asked to go there upon was the purchase of Native lands, and the representatives of the owners of this land stated to me that they (the owners) desired to see me, and desired to sell this land to the Government. As I am assured that this place is on my road, the representatives of the Natives from Galatea may inform the latter that I will call there, and be prepared to go into business with them as regards acquiring the lands they have mentioned. I have, therefore, only one more subject, and that is the survey of the block of land which was mentioned here—the Euatoki. I will see the Natives to-morrow on my journey, and, after I have seen them, I will send word back as to the decision of the Government, but I desire to confer with the whole of the claimants before I finally decide, If I were to say to-day, Yes, without consulting them, they would have a grievance, and would say, " You knew you were coming through our district, if you were our friend, you would have spoken to us before coming to a decision. I desire to treat the Natives the same as the Europeans, and, in doing this, I am following the same course as I would with regard to Europeans. I think it is always best to reason with the people of both races to explain matters to them, to appeal to their good sense not to try to coerce them. If you convince a person—no matter what country he belongs to—that what you are doing is in his interest, he submits with a good grace. I have told you what the law is, and told you of the great power that is vested in the Government of the day I have told you that Parliament has said that all lands must have an

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owner, and that the titles thereto must be ascertained, and the Parliament of New Zealand— there is only one Parliament —is supreme over everything else. If you want any grievances redressed, if you are suffering from any wrongs, you should appeal to me , let me, if I can, help you. I will go further than that, I will ask you to appeal to Parliament for relief. You have in that Parliament four of the Native race who are representatives of the Native race. In that Parliament, according to your numbers, according to the number of Natives in the colony, you have more members in the House than the pakehas have got. You also have a representative of the Native race in the Cabinet , and if any ill befalls you it is your own fault, and you will be to blame. I have told you the Government desires to do what is right, Parliament is there for you to appeal to. If you take up a negative position, all I can say is this take the consequences, you yourselves are to blame. There is Her Majesty the Queen, who I have told you has much interest in your welfare, whose wish is to see you prosper the same as her European subjects. You are all one to her You must therefore obey her laws. There are not two sets of laws in this colony , there is the same law for the Europeans as for the Natives, and if you do not observe these laws then trouble will come upon you. You have one Government and one Parliament. The head of the Government is now speaking to you, and to do that he is travelling very many miles. You said to-day you looked upon me as your father. I have spoken to you to-day as a father would speak to his children , and lam prepared, if you are good children, to do that which will prosper you in this world , and when the Parliament meets I shall be very pleased to be able to tell the Parliament that I have met the representatives of the Native race in different parts of the colony, and that I have had from them good wishes and a hearty welcome, and the assurance that they would do that which was in their own interest and the interest of the colony, and that they would live in friendship, peace, and harmony with their pakeha brothers , and I assure you that it is the wish of the pakehas that you should live in contentment and prosperity They are grieved to see you passing away You are the only remnant of a noble race, but that race, when the pakehas were few, when they first came here to your country, were their friends, and now we—the Europeans—desire to be your friends. My last words to you are words of thanks for the kind welcome you have accorded to us and if good results from my visit to you I shall be amply repaid for the trouble I have taken in coming to see you. 1 will now say good-bye. On Sunday the Premier and party proceeded, in a heavy downpour of rain, to Euatoki, the Hon. Mr Seddon and Hon. Mr Carroll visiting Poro Poro for a short time en route. On arrival at Euatoki arrangements were made for a meeting on the following morning, the Premier and Hon. Mr Carroll returning to Mr Gould's station, about three miles back on the road, to spend the night, where they were most hospitably entertained by Mr Grant, the manager Early the next morning the Premier and party arrived at Euatoki, and were accorded a most enthusiastic welcome. The meeting was held in the open air on the large terrace upon which the settlement is built. The Premier opened the proceedings by saying,—Salutations and friendly greetings to all of you ! I have come a long distance to see you, and lam pleased to meet you. It is the first time the head of the Government has come to see you, and, when I speak here to-day, I speak on behalf of six hundred thousand people, and their greeting to you through me is friendly "When there are any grievances amongst the pakehas, when they have something that troubles their minds, then the head of the Government speaks to them and asks them to tell him what their grievances are, so that he may be able to remove them. For the first time, therefore, you are now treated the same as the pakehas are treated by the rangatiras of the Government. I would therefore, to-day, ask you to speak your mind freely , my ears are open, and you are speaking to one who wishes to be a father to you. The welfare of yourselves —the men, women, and children of these tribes—is in your hands to-day If you fail to open your minds to me and speak freely to me as a friend, willing and anxious to better your position and do what is in the best interest of you all, I say, if you fail to do this, and disaster should follow, then you have only yourselves to blame, the trouble will have been caused by your own action. lam here to-day to remove troubles, not to make them. Only yesterday we had rain coming down , a mist was over the land. Now, we see the mist has risen, the ram has stopped, and all is bright. It struck me as being typical of the state of your minds. Let me venture to hope that, as the mist has cleared from the earth so it will clear from your minds ; and when I leave here, in a very short time, all the troubles that you labour under may be removed, leaving everything bright and cheerful for you. Believe me, this is my earnest hope. These are my words to you now I will say nothing further at present, but explain our relative positions, and I rely upon you to be true to yourselves to think of those who have gone before you your forefathers, to think of those who come after you, and to assist me to help you to remove your troubles. I am deeply grieved and pained to find you as I find you at the present time. You are really well to do. You ought to be in a much better position —much more comfortable—than I find you, and it was with a view to promote that "comfort and prosperity that I have gone through this fatigue and come amongst you to-day I was told by your enemies, —because they are your enemies,—that I would not be welcome here amongst you, but, from what I have heard from your lips this morning, I shall be able to tell the world I was welcomed, that you were pleased to meet and hear me, and have your grievances adjusted. You have enemies, who desire on the sly and under cover to do you an injury It is these enemies who made these assertions which are untrue. But when people meet as we meet to-day, face to face, and are reasonable with each other, and when I have heard you and heard your greivances, I hope, when I return, to tell the pakehas that they have been untruthful about you, that you are a good people, desirous of promoting both the interests of yourselves and the Europeans. This is a grand country surely good people of both races should, live in peace and contentment side by side, live in this colony so that when the time comes, and we are gathered to our forefathers, we can say we have been good people. I have not come to-day to use empcy words. I bring with me in my hand a law which was passed in your favour last session, and I am here to-day to explain to you the provisions of this law, which has been assented to by

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Her Majesty, and I will prove by this that the Government, of which I am the head, are your friends. When the pakeha boy or Maori boy goes to school you give him a slate he makes figures and writes upon the slate. When he does not do it right, he wipes it off, and makes a fresh start. I want the tribes and your representatives to do the same here to-day Now, we will say, we will bury the past, wipe it out, as the boy would wipe it off his slate. Let both parties determine that what they do shall be in the interest of both races, and of every man, woman, and child here. I have gone through the centre of the island, I have met thousands of the Native race, and, wherever I have met them, we have had our explanations, and we have parted on the very best of terms , we have parted as good and true friends. Just the same as I have met face to face the Native race belonging to the different tribes, North, South, East, and West, I say I am here to meet you as representative of the Government. I know that there are enemies, and that there are those who are not true friends of the Native race. They send their emissaries, who are trying to poison your minds. They are enemies, coming with evil tongues before me but when I meet the people and explain matters to them all these lies will be set aside, and they will believe the man who is the chief rangatira in this country, and who, when he gives his word, always keeps it—whether to Europeans or Natives. Having thus put the case, I challenge them. I say, Why slink behind bushes? Come out in the open, and meet me face to face. lam here to meet them alone; and if they come before me I will, single-handed, subdue them, and prove their words are untrue and evil, —that they are not your friends, and are doing you an injury They come to me as head of the Government, they tell me, "We are your friends," and actually draw money from the Government, and then go behind the Government and create evil amongst the Native race so as to elevate themselves and get money from the Government. I say "I do not want you stand aside, your hands are soiled, your hands are not free Ido not want you, stand aside." I will go through the Native districts and meet the Maoris as man to man. They are wise men, and I will speak to them so that they may be able to understand that what we desire to do is in the interest of themselves and the country My heart is not made of stone. I see a noble race, and see that they are disappearing from the face of the earth. I say, it is my desire to preserve that race. I see them living in absolute poverty not having sufficient food, not having the comforts they ought to have. We wish to alter this state of things, and let them live happy and contented by our side. I have thus given you briefly the object of my visit and now I wish you to open your minds to me —to speak freely as man to man. You have now got a chance to speak to meet face to face the head of the Government of the country Speak to me as a friend do not let your words disguise your thoughts, let your mind and words be open, so that we may thoroughly understand each other, even though you speak unpleasant words to me. Do not be afraid to be truthful. I know that there is trouble amongst you, and that there is trouble in your minds, these troubles are easily removed, if you will only be open and truthful to me, and let me know really what the trouble is. If you do not do so, and disaster follows, the responsibility is with you. If you do yourselves, your wahines, and your children an injury, the responsibility is with you, not with me , therefore, I say, speak out plainly Kereru said, —Salutations to you, the Premier and your younger brother, Mr Carroll Salutations to you Mr Carroll, who have come to see your people formerly you were their representative. This is your second coming here. Welcome to both the Premier and yourself, who come to benefit me or injure me—even though it may 'be to strike the land or the people ! My ears have listened to rumour, which I have been inclined to believe, that you are evilly disposed towards us. I have heard that you were here to destroy me. I will now sing a song of welcome. [Seng.] Again I offer you salutations and greetings for coming here, lest you should think lam standing without the pale of the law In former times I was not an upholder of the law I was in rebellion. Now, in these days, I am endeavouring to carry on the affairs of the Natives in accordance with the law of justice. That is why I offer you the sincere welcome I have. I give you the welcome of the Tuhoe people, and offer my congratulations to the both of you who have met upon this open space to see us here to-day I have no such word as this to say to you, " Go back to Whakatane ", on the contrary I invite you here that I may lay my words before you in your presence. Some of the remarks thab have fallen from you I will eagerly devour, those that are palatable , those that are bitter I will reject. Tutakanahao said, —Welcome Welcome ! I wish to express my great satisfaction at your coming here to look into the matters we wish to place before you. Welcome to you, 0 my parent! Your coming here is what my heart has so earnestly desired, as also that of what I might call the orphans and the poor It is only by the law that difficulties can be removed and remedies can be obtained—that is, through you, who have brought words of love to me, and who represent the law When the law became established the evil passed away Welcome to you who have come here, bringing with you words that the heart may seize hold of. The desires of the heart shall be fulfilled , those things that the heart does not desire shall be rejected. Welcome again. It is well. I again pay my respects to you who have so exerted yourselves in coming this distance to see us. This is the second time the Government have come here. I regard with great importance your visit here it will, I hope, be of great good to the Maori race, and may God protect and guide you and us in our works. Makarini said, —Welcome, Mr Carroll, to this part of the country —come to the place where you spoke your words on a former visit, come to have those words carried out. In those words which you spoke, and your presence at that time amongst us, was our salvation. You pointed out and assisted in the laws that were laid down to benefit us. I voted for you to be returned as a member of Parliament to represent and conduct the affairs of this Island, and now I desire to express my approval and satisfaction at your again coming amongst us. We see one another again, and can exchange our thoughts. If any difference of opinion had taken place between us I should have let it be known. I should now like to address myself to the head of the Government of this colony I have seen many chiefs of the Government of New Zealand. I have B—G 1

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seen Sir Donald McLean—he was the first—and I expressed to him my respect and praise, because he had done a great deal for this country On the occasion of Sir Donald addressing us, he desired that the Maori and European races should become united as one people, and I cheered his sentiment on that occasion. Afterwards people came stealthily amongst us saying I was betraying the Government, then trouble arose. After this the representative of the Government again came amongst us, and the trouble was dispersed. Now you have come amongst us. I have trouble on hand, recent trouble. I interfered with the survey Some of my people are not present, they are not able to go about, because the word of the law is still upon them, they are not free. I am greatly pleased to hear you say that all troubles can be removed, because they are upon those here who are liable to be arrested at any moment. The warrants are still out on account of the trouble for which they became liable to the law Therefore it is that I appeal to you, Sir, as head of the Government, to wipe away the difficulty that overshadows them, and see the trouble removed. lam delighted we have met you, and that you have found pleasure in meeting us. I am one who is an adherent of the law Welcome, oh, welcome! Te Hiko said, —I am come in the path laid down by our parents, the Government. Welcome here on the occasion of your visit to the Tuhoe Tribe. My excellent elder cousin (Mr Carroll), who is now performing this journey, it is well for you to see the people and enlighten them, bring salvation with you. lam standing here in darkness, but still with a fervent hope of seeing the light. That is all I have to say to you. To you, 0 Premier, I address my words and welcome you here. Welcome, you who bring those advantages which will be of benefit to us. I listened attentively to your words, and I am pleased at your bringing the good tidings to the Tuhoe people. Your visit is indeed an excellent one. 1 will now sing a song of welcome. [Song.] Paora Kingi said, —In accordance with Native custom, 1 welcome you, Mr Carroll, to this place, which you visited on a former occasion. It is well. I will now address myself to the Premier Welcome, O Minister ! who is administering the affairs of both the European and the Maori races. I offer you my greetings on account of the expression of opinion you have given to this meeting. It has been said by Europeans and Natives that the object of your visit here was to do injury unto us. I have held steadfastly to peace since the days of Sir Donald McLean, and up to the present day I continue to be a loyal subject to the Queen. After having heard what you have said to us who are assembled here, our hearts greatly rejoice. What lam about to do now is in accordance with Maori custom. lam about to address you in song. [Song.] To you, the Premier, I appeal to-day to unloosen the bond on those who are to be arrested , to free them. The law overshadows them, and they want it removed. This place belongs to those against whom warrants have been issued. It was in connection with this block the arrests were made. That is my request to you —that you will give this matter your consideration. Tipihau said, —I offer you my congratulations, Mr Carroll. lam new to you, having only just seen you. I express my respect and regard to you. It is an important thing that we should see one another Welcome, whether it be for evil or good, or whether it be to destroy Lay down what you have to say with regard to Euatoki. Welcome, Omy loving friend, the Premier ! Great is my pleasure and joy at your coming here. Your people are dwelling on my land. This is the permanent canoe of Tuhoe. The faith and love of Tuhoe will not cease and should trouble and misfortune arise among any of the tribes in any part of New Zealand, they will be no party to those troubles or difficulties. I again welcome you, and shall be pleased to hear you speak of the troubles that are besetting these people. Hetaraka Whakanua said, —I stand up here to welcome Mr Carroll, and the Premier, and the friends who have come here to visit us. I wish to express my pleasure to both of you, and your friends, for coming here to see Tuhoe this day lam very pleased to hear what the Premier has said in addressing the people here, and trust that the good advice he has given will be followed, and that prosperity may accrue to the men, women, and children. I am intensely gratified to hear the remarks that have fallen from the Premier I was delighted to hear those words when he urged the people here to lay bare before him the thoughts that are within them. That is, indeed, an excellent proposition—namely, advising the Natives here to lay clearly before him what their grievances are, and what their thoughts are. Well, one matter that is troubling the hearts of the people here has already been explained to the Premier, and it relates to those people who are liable to be arrested. That is one point. There is another matter and it is with reference to what Tipihau, the last speaker, said. I quite agree with him that should any trouble or difficulty arise among the Natives in any part of the colony we (Tuhoe) will in no way participate in those troubles. If any tribe should arise hostile to the European race I will side with the European, and wipe out my debt. lam the friend of the Europeans from henceforth. Now, with regard to what the Premier said about laying before him any matters the Natives had to complain of, I will touch upon a matter in which the Tuhoe tribe are particularly interested. It is a matter that is creating some difficulty in the boundary of Tuhoe. I will explain what this matter is that is creating the trouble amongst the Tuhoe, and causing dissension amongst ourselves. It is about a school. I desire a school should be established in our district, and there are others against it. That is all I have to say at present. Long life and prosperity to you all ! Hon. Mr Carroll said, —Salutations to you, the Tuhoe people ! This is a visit in accordance with the same questions about which I visited you formerly We meet in the open, and there is no reason why any words should be held back. Salutations to you my elder cousins, and younger relatives! No matter what reports or remarks you may have heard, lam here, and you will be able to hear the statements of those in authority, who have come to meet you face to face. Many of the old people have passed away, but the words of Sir Donald McLean still live over the land of the Tuhoe people. It was yourselves who branched off from the path that in former times was laid down for you to follow , it was yourselves who adopted and followed out the wrong course, and in these past actions you stumbled on the way My efforts have been that you should be all gathered together and act in a united manner, that everything should be done in the open, and in

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a public manner among you. While some of you may weary and fatigue, the Government never tire. Generally, the law has been well observed by the Maori people. It is true that there were some who, acting under ill-advice, diverted from the path of the law as laid down. There was a false step taken in the Waikato Orakau followed, and men were swept off the face of the earth. Though the tribes became decimated, the land still remains. This latter fact was not the result of your knowledge, but the result of the law which was placed over you for your safety It is right and proper that the darkness of the past should be wiped away The sun now shines upon the summit of every hill, the days of evil have passed away, and we are now working in more advantageous times, and with better results. It is quite right that incidents of the past should be thought of and compared with the present. There is a distinct and definite object in this visit to the tribes throughout the Island. Now for the first time the Maori people meet face to face the head of the Government. The reason why I accompanied the Premier on his visit to all the Maori people is that benefit and advantage to the Maori race may accrue, and that you and all your people may be benefited by this visit, and that you may follow out the advice given to you. The Premier has informed you that he is the mouthpiece of the people of this Island. He is the head of all, and what he undertakes to carry out I hope will be faithfully performed. Hence, it is, I say to you, O Tuhoe, let not there be any portion of your thoughts kept back within your hearts. All the evils of the past have arisen from misunderstandings, and through the thoughts of one and the other not being properly and fairly disclosed. Therefore, lay bare, and fully communicate your ideas here in this open space where we are now assembled let us, in a proper spirit, approach each other so that you on your part may know precisely what we mean, and that we on ours may know exactly what your thoughts are, that we may be clear in what we have to say to each other The shadow of evil comes forth from the evil tongue. So far it has been all talk, the actual difficulties have not yet been grappled with in a manner so that they may be settled. It is of little use saying that laws are good or bad. What is the law that has afflicted you ? Show us clearly what law it is under which you suffer? Why not say the question of surveys is one that has afflicted us, or say the laws that affect our lands are working injuriously against us, that the Native Land Court is a source of injury to us ? Let us know what the evil is. You are simply allowing the land to lie waste it is not the law that is encouraging that state of affairs it is not the Government who are allowing the land to lie idle, but it is yourselves. These are the subjects that should be earnestly discussed by us. If the land is the source of trouble, make clear to us that fact, and let us see how that trouble can be removed. If it be the laws that relate to the lands that are the cause of the trouble, then point out to us those portions of the law that so affect you. If it is beyond you to discuss the laws, this, however, you can do you can make known to us the causes of your suffering. In this tour of ours through the North Island we started from the head, of the fish, passed through the centre of the Island, went to the Waikato and visited the tail of the fish, where dwelleth the Ngapuhi, and now we have come here to interview you. All these tribes that we have met have laid all their troubles before us, and discussed whatever they had to complain of m regard to their lands with us. Now, to-day is the time for you. Come, do as these other tribes have done. Quite understand that to-day is the day upon which you may be recorded as having been " born again." A new order of things, and a new law unto the people, are now in this Island, and it is in the direction of following out what you yourselves have said to-day—that is, forsaking the evils of the past. As to the question of future warfare in this Island, that has passed away for ever, there will be no more war , we shall not retrace our steps in that direction. What we have to do is to turn and look before us, and choose the course to follow, so that we shall be able to search out the best thing to be done for the widow and the orphan, the young and the old. The Premier and myself are between you —the Natives and the European people —and are anxious for your prosperity We are warding off any evil that may befall you and the Native people, but it will be impossible for us to maintain this position for long. Let what is to be done be done while it is yet day The first subject to which you should direct your remarks when addressing my friend and myself is with regard to your lands lay down what should be done with the land, that your feet may still be able to tread upon it. That is the most important point to be discussed. Here now is a Government that you should propitiate—a Government that is looking after your welfare, and desirous of promoting your prosperity, for, whatever the Premier may say to you, effect will be given to his words. That is all I have to say at present to the people. You have explained the trouble you are suffering under with regard to those who are liable to be arrested, and it was a very proper subject to bring under the notice of my friend the Premier for the law relating to that matter is within his grasp. I wish you all, Tuhoe, every happiness. We are not going away to-day, and you will have a little time to reflect upon what you are going to say Numia said, —I think it would be desirable that we should adjourn to a house, as the wind is rather high. We will go first, and will ask you to follow us. The Premier With pleasure. The meeting was continued indoors. Purewa said, —I stand up in the presence of you folks. I will first offer, before touching on other matters, my greetings to both of you. Salutations to the both of you, who are the saviours of my body and land. Salutations to you both, who may destroy my body and land. These are my greetings to you. The subject on which I have stood up to address you is one of small importance , it is in reference to the matter that a school should be established in this district. This is what I have to say in regard to the request made by Hetaraka Wakaunua. Ido not consent to the school being established here. The reason why Ido not consent is that the Court which adjudicated upon lands at Euatoki has not well performed its work. The title to the land has not been ascertained, and if the school is erected before this is done, it will not be known on whose land the school was erected, and it is just possible, for aught I know, that the Court, in determining the title,

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may determine the land on which the school is erected as belonging to Hetaraka Wakaimua, and award it to him, or some one else. Let us deal first with the question as to who are the owners of the land, and then approach the question of having a school. That is all I have to say Numia said, —Let me first offer my greetings to you. Salutations to the leaders of the present Government! lam very glad indeed that you have come to this part of the country In times past all that came to us was a report that you were coming. Now you have arrived amongst us, we, the tribe of Tuhoe, those who are assembled here, rejoice at your having come. The number of people about this place will be something like three hundred. Many have gone inland. Letters were sent to Whakatane asking you to come here, and pleasure was expressed in the open place this morning at your having come amongst us. We listened to what you had to say as to the reason why you came here, and your request that we should lay before you the matters which concerned us most. You also mentioned that you had travelled throughout the Island and listened to what the Natives in the different parts of the colony had to say, and you also urged upon us not to withhold from you anything we had to say to you. You urged upon us to lay now, at the present time, before you all these matters we have to touch upon. In consequence of what you have already said, it is meet, according to the usage of the people here, that I should stand up and express their views upon these points. I may mention to you that a meeting of the Tuhoe took place in March that is past, and they mentioned there their desires and views. That matter was disposed of and dealt with at the meeting held in March. That meeting began its work on the Ist of February and continued till the 4th of March, when it concluded its business. I will now let you know what transpired at that gathering. I will lay before you what was transacted on that occasion. One matter that was determined was the territorial boundary of what land was to be surveyed under command of the Government, and internal surveys within these boundaries would not be consented to at the present time, and that searching for gold would not be agreed to by them, and that the sale of their land would not be acquiesced in by them, and the laying-off of roads through their land would not be agreed to, and that the leasing of their lands was also to be prohibited, that committees should be established, and that the duty of these committees was to deal with troubles that might arise in reference to their lands. These were the matters decided upon at that meeting. I may further explain to the Government what else took place at that meeting. The people who attended it are dwelling under the authority of the Government, they are dwelling in peace , they will not depart therefrom and take up the course followed in former times, they will pursue the road that leads to prosperity Now, this is a separate matter I am going to speak of—that is, in regard to the land. They—l am referring to the meeting—wished to retain within their own hands the administration of the affairs relating to their lands. The lands that are already surveyed are not included in the remarks I am now making. I should explain why the meeting has taken up this position. This is the explanation I have to give Lands that get under the control of the Government are simply squandered away , those who have possessed land become landless, they are those who are supported by the Government. I should not conceal this fact from the Government, and that is the reason why I lay this matter before you, so that you can investigate it. The people belonging to the tribe that is now before you, arc, of all people in the country, the greatest strangers to European customs. Many of the ancient customs abandoned by other tribes are still held by them. Hence it is that I again express my gladness at the Premier being amongst us to-day to hear the subjects that are being laid before him. That is all I have to say in reference to these matters. There is another point I wish to refer to, and it is in reference to what the Premier said this morning when he invited us to lay before him our grievances. This is one particular grievance we have, and it is one of the particular grievances referred to by Makarini with reference to those men who are liable to be arrested at any moment—l mean the trouble in connection with the surveys. The desire is that those people should be brought before you, and that that particular subject should be dealt with. Perhaps I should cease here m laying before the Premier the particular subjects to be dealt with by this gathering, I will return now to what Mr Carroll said to-day I may explain to you, my friend Mr Carroll, that these are the particular subjects agreed to by my people —these matters already mentioned by me. They have watched what has taken place with regard to the tribes outside of us , we see that others of the Native race are now in a landless condition —that their lands have all passed away to the Government. These lands have passed away because they desired the Government should have control of them. It is not that the Government obtained these lands unfairly from these people, hence it is that my people wish that the control of their own land should remain with themselves. I may explain to the Tuhoe the course suggested wheieby prosperity and wealth may come to them. The people of Tuhoe do not agree; they think that there may be temporary prosperity, a temporary enjoyment thereof by dealing with land. You are an advocate of progress. Very good, but the people do not believe in a temporary prosperity There is the reaction to be taken into consideration. People like myself, who are upholding the Government, are strong in our endeavours to get the people to consent to the advancement that is pointed out to us, but the bulk of the people of Tuhoe look at what has taken place in the past—they do not agree with us. They see in other parts of the country Natives struggling and passing away they give away their land without any good coming to them. There is King Tawhiao, he is administering his affairs according to his lights. The Arawas are also looking in the direction they desire and so it is with all the tribes —working in their own respective directions. Again, I say Tuhoe are extremely pleased at seeing the Premier and Mr Carroll. That is all I have to say The Premier Again I speak to Tuhoe. Again I say to Tuhoe that, as head of the Government, I am pleased that they have so far put their grievances before me in such a way that I can reason with them. Though I differ with the opinions expressed, still, lam very pleased to have heard them. It is only by appealing to the better feelings of mankind, whether Natives or Europeans—by reasoning like sensible men—that we can arrive at a just conclusion in the interests of both nations, and it is by reason, and not by force, that I hope before I leave this place to prove

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to you that what we wish to do is in your interest. If I prove by reason, and show you in reasoning the matter out, that'you are in error, then it will be wisest for you, in the interest of the race you represent, to agree to that which is reasonable, just, and fair You tell me you had a meeting which lasted from the Ist of February to the 4th of March. At that meeting there was only one side represented. Those present were admittedly living under our laws and conforming to our laws, still, there was only one side represented. It is well that you have told me openly the conclusions that were arrived at, because I can deal separately with those conclusions, and point out to you what would be the wisest course to follow Now, what would you say if to-morrow you had a committee doing your business, controlling 3'our affairs, and a dispute arose, and one side only got the ear of the committee, and this committee came to a conclusion? What would you say ? Those who were not represented may be the most powerful, so powerful that if they took umbrage they would say "As we were not represented we will now take by force what they did not give us an opportunity of carrying out by reason." Now, those who were not represented at your meeting, and who have as much interest—a greater interest, in fact—than, those who were represented there, are here now reasoning with you to-day This brings me to one question upon which a conclusion was arrived at, which, I have no hesitation in saying, was almost suicidal on the part of Tuhoe. They might just as well have hung themselves, cut their own throats, or flung themselves into the river , they are coming into direct conflict with what their forefathers, who were wise men, saw was to be in their interests when signing the Treaty of Waitangi. Your forefathers laid down the principle that the Government, which you acknowledge, was to see you maintained in the possession of your own lands. Now, it is impossible for the Government, of which lam the head, to still carry out, on behalf of the Queen, the Treaty of Waitangi, I say it is impossible for us to maintain you in the possession of lands belonging to you unless we know where those lands are situated. If we go back to the old state of affairs and say you can only hold your lands so long as you are powerful enough to do so, how few of the Tuhoe there are now who could hold them against the races of the world. The only protection you have got that prevents other races coming from all parts of the world and taking from you your lands is the Government. The Tuhoe have gone to the north, south, east, and west, and they have helped people against the Government, and what has been the result ? Have you increased in numbers ? Have your lands increased? Ha,ve you extended your boundaries? Or will you admit the truth, that you have decreased in numbers, that your land has become circumscribed, and that your position is an unfortunate one to day ? If you tell the truth, y6u must admit that many of your fathers have been gathered to an early grave, that you have decreased in numbers, and that your position is worse to-day than in days gone by You have to-day admitted—and I was pleased to hear it—that, if any troubles occur outside with any tribe or other people, the Tuhoe will take no part therein, but that you will from henceforth rely upon the Government doing justice to you, and seeing that what belongs to you shall be declared to be yours. After hearing that from you and those representing the tribes here to-day, there is no alternative but to say it is good, it is wise, and, if that course is followed, from to-day will date the prosperity of the Tuhoe. lam sure that the Government, as representing the Queen, and the Queen herself—and I am the mouthpiece of both —will be very pleased that the Tuhoe have come to that conclusion, and mean to faithfully adhere thereto. But what is the use of this if your protestations are only to be treated as mere words. Am Ito understand that the words uttered to-day do not carry the meaning of what is intended, because the words of to-day conflict with the conclusions arrived at at the meeting held from the Ist February to the 4th March ? I have said that the Government desire to protect you, and to maintain you in the possession of the lands which belong to you; but, first of all, it is necessary to know where those lands are, and each one that the land belongs to. Now, before we can ascertain where your land is, and to whom it belongs, there must be a survey outside the present land surveyed. There are people all round you who dispute, and through those disputes ill-feeling is engendered. Are we to allow you to fight and destroy each other, and simply look on while you become less and less, until you disappear altogether? Or are we to say, "As parents of all these children, we will settle those disputes, we will ascertain who the land belongs to, and give it to the rightful owners " ? We prefer to take up the position not of stepfathers or stepmothers, but that of good parents loving their children, and desirous of doing that which is in their interest, and which will prosper them in. this world , and in doing this we are only doing that which has in other places proved to be of great benefit to the Natives particularly, and in the interest of both races. You have told me that some of the Natives are landless—that some of them had their titles ascertained, and parted with their land. lam glad you have put that case before me to-day, and that I have listened patiently to what you said in reference thereto. Some of these Natives have dissipated their substance, and I will point out to you what has occurred on the West Coast, from New Plymouth, say, down to Wanganui. In the case of those Natives, the Government have stepped in, and, by a very strong hand, prevented them from doing away with their substance. Two years ago they received rents from their lands amounting to £2,000 , last year they received £11,000. Not only that, but they still have remaining to themselves to do as they like with—to cultivate —reserves that are more than ample for them and their children—4o,ooo acres. Now, that was by dealing with them as kind parents, but, before we could do this, we had to ascertain what lands belonged to them. As my friend and colleague, Mr. Carroll, told, you to-day, it was in the interest of yourselves that the Government should do this, so that you might be protected. But all must fall in with the general law, so that the strong power of the Government may be behind you, so as to protect you and that strong power lam prepared to-day to offer you. You have to-day told me you respect that power, and that you have determined to uphold it. I cannot exercise that power unless I know in what direction so to do, and what belongs to you, so that I can protect you in it. Those who say they do not want the land which belongs to them to be known, only weaken their position, because it leaves it open to be said they are afraid that, on investigation, they may not be the owners, hence they prejudice their own rights; and, as Mr. Carroll also told you to-day, he and I are 9—G 1.

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standing between you and others as your protectors, as a bulwark. We are standing between them and the Tuhoe, and if the Tuhoe take up a wrong position on the other side, it is impossible we can long stand the pressure that is being brought to bear , and then, when you say to me to-day, " We do not want anything further with regard to the surveys already made, let that stand, that is outside, there is nothing further to do," all I can say to you is, I will not be responsible, and you may rest assured upon this fact that if you maintain that position it means that wrongs are bound to accrue to the Tuhoe. It is only by getting the legal titles to that which belongs to you that the Government will be able to afford you protection. A legal title is in your favour, and cannot be disputed. In all countries now great changes are taking place, and in all countries where men and women live they must know definitely who are the owners of the land, and must have a legal title for those who own it. Now, in doing that, we do not desire in any way to take from you your rights, or to take from you your land, but the New Zealand Parliament has said by law, and the Queen who governs us all—you are her children as much as I am —has said, "We must ascertain the titles to all lands." It is here in the book. Under section 13 of the Native Land Purchase and Acquisition Act the following words are there enacted. "With respect to Native land, the Government may ask the Native Land Court to ascertain the titles thereto, and the Court may thereupon proceed so to do." Now, this is done to prevent one party who might want to take the land from the other without making application for it to be surveyed. Under the law as it now stands he cannot do that, but must apply to have it surveyed, and then it will come before the Court, and the Court will decide whose land it is. The Queen, who is the parent of all, has got this Act passed so that both parties may have fairplay Now, Ido not think that, at the meeting you held from the Ist February to the 4th March, chose who came to the conclusions you have mentioned were aware that the Government, in the interest of the Native race, had asked Parliament to make this law Had they known that this law existed they would perhaps have come to a different conclusion. Hence, I say, both sides should have been represented. Now, we will throw aside altogether any mystery or mystification, and I will say at once, I know one reason why the meeting decided to have no further surveys. It was because they were afraid that those who applied for them would be getting an advantage over the others, and they said, "We will have.no surveys at all." Now, as I said to-day, wipe the past off the slate, and, as my colleague Mr Carroll said, make a fresh start. I am here to-day to see a clean slate : wipe the conclusions arrived at at the meeting from the Ist February to the 4th March from off it. Make a fresh start from to-day, and we will see that no one gets an advantage over the other The Queen will see the right people get the land, and I say so on the part of the Government. The impression that has been formed has, I know, done a great deal in passing these resolutions , they were passed in ignorance of the law and the intentions of the Government. Hence, I say again, wipe out what was done at that meeting, and go on the lines others are going, so that your future, and the future of your children, may be preserved in peace and happiness. You may fear that, in these particular surveys, wrong may be done you. In that respect the Government will be responsible, and see that the persons who make those surveys are men that the Government can rely upon, and who will not do injustice to any one. The Government will see that the expenses incurred are not such as shall eat up the land, but the work shall be done at the lowest possible cost. The Government have no interest in wronging those who come under their protection, but have every desire to see that your interests are conserved. We are not here to destroy; we are here to build up and preserve. I now come to the question of the Courts that have to decide these questions for survey lam prepared to bring the Court here, to this particular spot, in this very building, so as to save expense, and keep you here amongst yourselves, so that, whilst having your rights adjusted, you shall not be driven to other places, put to expense, and made to suffer the evils you do in the towns. If that had been done in the past many evils which the Natives have suffered would never have occurred. Again I say that, with these privileges granted you, those who do not desire to have the surveys made or have their titles ascertained are afraid. And if they are not afraid, then they are doing themselves an incalculable wrong, because they are weakening their position. The next question is as to the sale of the lands. As the law stands, the Natives are not compelled to sell their lands , they can lease them, and avoid selling. When the titles are ascertained, a majority of the owners can decide, after election, in what way they will deal with the lands , and the prices upon which the lands are to be leased is agreed upon by a Board on which the Natives themselves have fair representation. In making these provisions the Parliament has decided that if you want to have committees of advice comprised of the owners you can have these committees. You can all meet in a room like this—all the owners, and a majority can decide what you will do. If you say, "We will sell," the Government will say, " Very well." If you say " No, we will lease to the Government," well and good. If two-thirds of a majority say, "We want this land submitted to public auction and get the best possible price for selling or leasing," then the law says, "If you prefer that, you can do so"—that is, if you prefer it to dealing with the Government. And after doing this the Government has also conserved your rights, because, as stated to me, ycu have said there are many who have disposed of their lands who are now landless and penniless. Now, we have made provision to stop that. I admit that Natives have taken moneys in other places for their lands, and have squandered that money But we have made provision against that, because we have said, instead of getting the money so as to squander it, we give part in cash and part in debentures. These debentures bear interest, and you draw the interest every year as long as you live, and your children who come after you. That is better than allowing the land to be idle. The interest on these debentures can only be paid to the owners of the land, and no one else. By the principle upon which the land is either sold or leased, neither you nor your children who come after you can ever be penniless or in want, and even though you become bankrupt, owe money, or a judgment is given against you, that money is not transferable, is not attachable, and can only be paid to the

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owner and the one who had an interest in the land. It always belongs to the owner of the land and his children for all time. Now, as you will see, if these facts were known, if this had been known at the time of that meeting held in February and March, you would never have come to the conclusions you did. I have told you of the dangers that surround you. So long as you remain doing what you are doing you will have all these people coming in by-and-by, and when the time comes great trouble will overtake you, and people will claim land who never had any land at all. All the others are getting the titles to their land ascertained—getting all the advantages we offer them, and by-and-by you will suffer if you do not come to reason and sense, and get your titles ascertained, the same as other people. Now, I told you at the start that we did not want to force anything, but simply to warn you of a great danger that threatens you, and that we are prepared, by legislation, to protect you and it remains for you to protect yourselves, and take advantage of it. To those who have dealt with the Government under recent laws, and those who come to the Government under this law, I say they will never be landless—never be without money, food, or clothes. They will be more prosperous than Tuhoe have been since they have been Tuhoe. There is still a sufficient remnant of your tribe from which may be built a good and great people, and I have indicated to you the foundation upon which that great people can be built. You mentioned about Tawhiao and other Natives—that they were following upon lines of their own. Have those people profited who went under Tawhiao? Has he profited? What are his people? They are landless. They have no friends. When I met them on the Waikato they asked me to give back land that had been given for school purposes—such is their necessity —and it is those who have joined them, and who are landless and penniless—those who would not allow the wishes of their forefathers and the Queen to protect them—it is those people who are landless to-day in New Zealand. Every step taken by those who opposed the wishes of their forefathers, who signed the Treaty of Waitangi —every departure from that treaty—has been a step taken to destruction. It has been a step taken towards poverty, degradation, and want, and the noble race ought to have been, and would have been, three times—nay, ten times—the number in this colony had they followed the right steps of their forefathers, and the Tuhoe would not have been the remnant that I see, but would have been a great and powerful people, and this place—■ the whole of this land—would not have held the people to have listened to the Premier Avert this evil upon Tuhoe before it is too late. Let me tell you this, first of all The surveys must proceed under the Government direction, and by men who will be responsible solely to the Government —by men who will not favour one side or the other, but who will be just to every one; and the expense shall be as low as it is possible to make it, so that the land shall be left for those to whom it belongs. The expense of the Courts must be reduced as low as we can possibly make it. Then, we must have a Judge—one holding the highest position—one in whom every one, both Native and European, will repose the greatest confidence. He will see that everything is fair and just to all concerned. When this is done, then you will have the protection of the Government. You will have protection against the world, and what belongs to you you will retain and be able to do with it as your own, and do with it so that your wives and children will profit thereby You mentioned to-day about the site for a school. One asked that a school should be established. Another objected thereto, because the title to the land upon which it was to be built was not ascertained. Shall there be a school here for Tuhoe ? One objects and another objects because the titles to the land have not been ascertained. In the meantime, the children are growing up in ignorance, and growing up in that ignorance which is against their after life, and, unless the children are educated, those who are quarrelling about who the land is to belong to are taking the bread, the breath, and the very means of living from their offspring that is what they are doing. One is not the whole tribe. If Tuhoe says, we want the school, put the school there, who is going to dispute it ? What matters it if one man disputes ? What does it matter so long as the children are educated, and can make a living in this world ? The great power of to-day is education. The pakeha sees that power, so do the Natives in other parts, because they give their children an education. Therefore, I say, have the school, and get your children educated. You have intellect, are strong physically, for you have proved it in times gone by, and why should you be kept behind when the Government is prepared to educate your children ? Therefore, before I leave here,- think well over this as I have now put it to you, and say, before I leave, "We want the school, and the land will be there for it." The school will be vested in Tuhoe. There will be a committee of yourselves, you will have controlling power, and it will be in your interest to have a school. The day is still long, there is still time, and I want you to commemorate this day so that my colleague and myself can go back and say, " Tuhoe wants education for her children," and if you do that I tell you you are doing what is right, not only for to-day, but for all time but if you keep your children in ignorance they will curse you. I have by these few words only replied to the questions submitted. I should have something further to say, but I want you now, if you can, to reply to the arguments I have used in favour of what Parliament has done, and what the Government say is in your interest. Hon. Mr Carroll said, —I am ]ust going to speak in reference to certain remarks made by my colleague. You have explained to the Premier the particular matters that were disposed of at your meeting, and the Premier has laid before you what has taken place in Parliament. The views of both parties are now laid down. Let us look quietly into them. The first point was that the boundary of Tuhoe's land was to remain under the control of a committee, and the Premier asked, " Where is that boundary ? how was that boundary to be ascertained ? how was that boundary to be controlled ? who was to be controlled ? under what law—under the ancient laws of your people, or under the control of the laws of the colony?" Was that boundary to be preserved in accordance with the Treaty of Waitangi, assented to by the Queen ? That treaty laid down the law that the rights of the Maoris to their land were to be secured. It is only by the law that the rights of individuals can be secured to them. You are not in a position to say the land is yours simply because you are in possession of it. We know the ownership is disputed, as in the

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case of the Ngatirnanawa, who contest your right. Your mere assertion of ownership does not entitle you to the land. That is the reason why the Premier has laid it down that you should appeal to the law and get the law to determine the boundary of your land. Distinctly understand that the Government has this in its own hands—the power to complete the survey. Under the laws the Government can, in its own way, make a topographical survey. The Government wish the law to be carried out step by step in regard to Tuhoe, and hope that they will follow the right course. The survey, if carried on by the Government, would not be an expensive undertaking, and if a topographical survey is to be undertaken by the Government the owners may be fixed upon and the title to the land ascertained. It is quite true, that with the increasing population the country requires necessary steps to be taken with regard to the lands. There is but one thing, and one thing alone, that can preserve you, and that is, to go to the Government and the law. Do you yourselves give this matter your consideration What results from the boundary you are claiming as the boundary of your land ? Does any advantage result to you at all ? How is it you are not able to get employment from the Europeans ? Is it not because you allow your land to lie in idleness and be unproductive? It is not that the Government has any desire on its part to take possession of your land. What the Government wishes is to see you firmly established upon your own property The means by which this can be done cannot be reached by Maori committees, because the committees are not supported by the law The only committee that can firmly establish you in the possession is the ture — i.e., the Native Land Court. If there is anything that injuriously affects you in connection with the Native Land Court, let it be pointed out so that it may be remedied. I know that there is an anxious feeling among the Natives throughout the colony in regard to their lands, but let the cause of the anxiety be so held up to view that it may be plainly seen by the Government, and then the Government will be in a position to see the wrongs that need to be redressed. My colleague has said that the evils of the past should be wiped away He also said let us now take anew departure. In the new law that has been clearly explained to you no injury can befall you. If you wish to rent or lease, a majority of yourselves will decide. If you wish, a committee can bo appointed to do that. Also, if you desire, the Government will act as your bankers. You can deposit your money with the Government, who will take charge of it, and pay you interest, so that you can always depend on receiving it regularly, and there will be something left for the support of your offspring when you are gone. But all these things can only be done by acting in conformity with the law That is the only point of difference between you and me. You think these things can be done by your own Maori laws. I say they cannot be done in that way They must be done according to the laws of the Parliament. You are seeking for prosperity for yourselves, and for your land to be successfully employed. The Government are also seeking out the course whereby you yourselves may become prosperous and your land made valuable. Your anxiety is lest your lands may be dealt with wrongly Who will deal improperly with your lands? If you think it is the Government who will deal wrongly with you, I tell you the Government will do no such thing. If it be this, that you are afraid private individuals may act or deal wrongly with you, I tell you the Government will not give them an opportunity to do so the law will provide against that. The Government has decided that they will not allow private individuals to interfere with the Natives. If there is a dispute amongst yourselves the Court will determine the ownership according to your own customs. What is it, then, that you are really afraid of? Perhaps it is that you are really afraid of yourselves. Some seem to be afraid of the Court, others of the survey Perhaps you are afraid the land may pass away from you altogether Hence it is, perhaps, that you came to the resolutions arrived at at your late meeting. If these are the causes of your anxiety, what I have to say to you is Attach yourselves at once to the Government. The Government will be as a parent protecting each and every child. The Government can deal with your lands if you have had thorn surveyed and the titles determined. If you act in a contrary direction, you will yourselves be responsible for what befalls you. I will repeat what I have already said: Will you point out what evil results from surveys. If you think that the expenses attending the surveys will absorb a great deal of the land, I tell you, as I have already said, that these expenses shall be lightened. The cost of having the land brought before the Court will also be made much lighter. Do not be blind, deaf, or forgetful of the fact that we are living in an age of progress, and live with the spirit of the age. It is not as if you were a people living under great tribulation or difficulty This illustration as to the Europeans swarming into the country is quite correct. Another matter referred to was that you object to roads going through your lands. What is the objection to having roads ? If the roads were only for the Europeans there might be some reason in your objection, but do not you yourselves use the roads equally with the Europeans? If the roads were absorbing all the land it might be wrong. If the construction of roads resulted in your power over your lands being taken from you there might be some sense in the objection. But what is seen in reference to the roads is that highways are given to the people, Natives and Europeans alike, by which travelling from one part of the country to another is greatly simplified. But the question of roads is not really the main point to be discussed. The two main points settled at your meeting were in regard to the lands and the committees. Now, with respect to the proceedings at this meeting, all that has been said by both parties will be laid before the Government, and placed before Parliament. Therefore you should give your careful consideration to all that has been said to you to-day by the Premier. We know that you are living in an isolated position, and are not as well informed as many of the tribes living in other parts of the colony Hence it is that you should carefully weigh and ponder well over what has been said to you. Do not let the utterances of today be cast aside when we have gone away Think well over what has been said, and give every point your earnest consideration. These are the words I have to say to you, 0 Tuhoe! Look carefully into what has already been said to you, carefully weigh it all, and it may be possible that a happy union of both parties will take place that will prove a source of happiness, prosperity, and delight to you hereafter. Let not what has been said to-day be rejected. I say emphatically

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to you that, if what has taken place to-day be not heeded, the voice may turn away in a different direction. Other things may be done in another place. Whatever happens, the work in that other place proceeds. Therefore, then, I say, give every attention and consideration to what has been said to-day lam not asking you to give a decided answer at once give the matter every possible consideration. You will have means to communicate with the Government if you so desire. You know where the post-office is, you know where to write to. The Government have offered every facility to you. They have come to meet you here to-day at your own place, and at your own home. You have the post-office, telegraph-office, and every means of communicating with them. If it should so happen that these important matters cannot be dealt with by letter, what is to hinder you from coming in person to Wellington and seeing the Government. Parliament meets in the month of June, and this is the time you should lay down the lines upon which you intend to act. Should you arrive at a definite conclusion, it will be for you to send someone to represent you, and to express your views to the Government. Now, the Government in power is able, capable, and has the strength to do a great deal of good if you come to an unanimous decision, and fall in with their views. Effect will be given to that decision. Now that we have met here all together, and come to this place, my Government's desire is that we will be able to do some good and effective work. That is why I have listened with pleasure to the Tuhoe. All I now say is, Give every consideration to what has beeen said. Gather together all these things that have been said, that birth may be given to some new thoughts that will result in advantage to the Native race and the colony That is all I have to say after what has fallen from my colleague the Premier I have just run over what the Premier had already referred to, and all I have to say in conclusion is, Give careful consideration to what has been said. Numia said, —I wish to express my pleasure to you both for having placed so clearly before us the proceedings as carried on by the Europeans. We have shown to you what the Maoris have done, acting according to their own lights, and you too have explained to us the extravagance of the resolutions come to, and have explained to us the laws. That is the reason why I show so forcibly to you what we have done, acting according to our own way , and in view of having these matters carried out, I thought I would put you in possession thereof. Looking at the Native Land Court work I found the first thing to be done was to have a survey made, and in consequence of this survey the owners of the land had no money Then a portion of the land would be taken by the Government to pay for the survey After that the Native Land Court would sit, and when it sat the Natives had not the money wherewith to carry on the hearing, and then the land passed away to those who had money What followed next was the issue of the Crown grant to the land. Then, when this was done, the owners began to sell, and those who parted with their land became landless , but they sold their land in carrying out their own selfish desire, and the fault was their own. Then, the taxes had to be paid on account of the land , and it is in consequence of all these things that Tuhoe desires that their land should not be sold. It would be the same if I were to explain in regard to the roads, gold-prospecting, and other matters. It is from the ignorant people that those evils come. Those possessing knowledge will not be favourable to this. I have heard what the Premier has said with regard to lightening the burdens falling upon us through the Court, and with regard to the surveys. I am greatly pleased indeed to hear these words. It is owing to no other reason that Tuhoe has taken up this negative action. It is only through the evils worked by the Native Land Court and the expense of the surveys. With regard to the outside tribes, they are also contending for these lands, and the contention is also going on with Tuhoe. Let me make clear what I said with regard to the committee, because the Tuhoe want the committee to investigate the difficulties that exist among them. I wish again to express my pleasure at what the Premier has said, making it so clear to us what the action of the Government is. Perhaps I should say now that we will take the remainder of the day to turn matters over in our minds, and the tribe will be represented at Wellington when Parliament assembles. Now, with respect to what the Premier has said about a school. That matter will be determined at once. W T e should just like an hour to give the matter consideration, and then we will reply to the Premier The Premier lam very pleased indeed to hear that you are going to come to a definite conclusion. Speaking of those who have grievances, he continued I wish to refer to those of your number for whom warrants for arrest have been issued, but I will discuss the matter with Mr Carroll while you are considering the question of a school. Probably we shall come to a decision in the interest of all concerned. I did not mention anything about prospecting for gold, but will say something to you definitely about that later, because we do not want to disturb that subject. We do not want to do anything in that respect. There is also another subject I intend to say something about. I have heard words here which, I am sure, will give great pleasure to His Excellency the Governor and Her Majesty the Queen. I had the assurance of the chiefs that they desired for the future to work in harmony with and obey Her Majesty's laws. Now, there is something which you generally see floating over every place where they have admitted the sovereignty of the Queen, and expressed their good wishes as good people and good children to her You oftimes see it floating over them, for it is their great protection. It is a flag, and is the emblem of freedom wherever it floats. If that flag floated here in this particular spot it would be to the world a sign that from this time forward we are to be as one people —Native and European alike—and all claiming the protection of the British flag. Now, I think I have said sufficient to indicate to you what my answer would be if Tuhoe would express to me here to-day a wish to have a school, and when it comes, then let the flag float there. I speak on behalf of the Government, and I think we shall be in a position to help you. I desire to know your wishes when you have consulted amongst yourselves. I will say nothing further now We will meet again in an hour's time, and then, I think, we shall be able to finish these small subjects, leaving the larger questions for consideration later on, when I shall probably receive your answer from those who are sent to Wellington to represent you. And I will tell you more than that. The want of means shall not

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prevent you coming to Wellington and seeing me there. I think it is only right that Her Majesty's subjects living in isolated places should be brought more together Kereru said, —I would be glad if you would carry out that remark of yours in respect to having the Court here. Bring it to this house. lam very pleased you have made that suggestion. If the Court is held elsewhere only a few people could get to it, but if it is held here all parties could go to it. I wish you now to give an assurance that the Court will be held here. I said I had very little to say, and I have said it. That is all. The Premier I have long seen the evils that have resulted from the Natives being brought long distances from their homes, and having to take their families with them into the towns, and evils have resulted which have been a curse to their families ever afterwards. I have seen the men drinking their substance, actually " swallowing their land." I have seen their wives and daughters defiled in these large cities, and the evil arises through their being there with temptation surrounding them. I have always said that that was a wrong that should not be perpetrated on the Natives. When dealing with matters affecting the pakehas, wherever the majority of the Europeans are their convenience is always consulted, and the Courts are placed accordingly and if we therefore think it is just and right and in the interest of the Europeans that their convenience should be consulted, then I say we should follow out the same course with regard to the Natives, and do equal justice to them. And I believe it will be right and proper that the evils of the past in that respect should cease once and for ever And believing that to be the case, even though we may have to go to some expense in making a convenient place for the Court to sit, and where the Judge may reside, that expense would be more than justified if we are doing it in the interests of both races and I now give my word that the Court shall come here convenient to this place, so that the titles may be ascertained, and that it may be proof at once that we are sincere in what we have said to the Natives. And I feel satisfied that in doing this I am doing that which is in the interest of the owners of the land, and only what is just to all concerned. We shall have to go into the question of detail as to what convenience is wanting. People may have to come from far At the same time, however we trust that their convenience will be consulted by the Natives who are here and, in making this request on behalf of Tuhoe, I know Tuhoe will do that, and will assist the Government in what they are doing. Some people will object, and say it is too far away, and it is not safe to come here. Everything will be done in the interest of the colony You speak on behalf of Tuhoe, I speak on behalf of the Government, and I say the Court shall come here, and I feel sure good will result to all concerned. On resuming after lunch, Hetaraka said, —I wish to explain with regard to the subject I have brought before you. I am speaking with reference to what Mr Carroll said at the close of his address a little while ago—that we should consider the subjects he and his colleague had brought before us. That observation of Mr Carroll s was generally assented to. This is what I have to say to the Premier and Mr Carroll with regard to internal surveys and other minor matters. The Ngatimanawa and Ngatiawa wish matters in reference to the Witi Block and the Patuheuheu Hapu, and also Tutakangahau, to remain in abeyance. It has been decided amongst us that the question relating to the surveys should be held over and cease until such time as we can interview the Government in Wellington. This is what I have to say to the Premier and his colleagues that these surveys should not proceed until we have had an opportunity of interviewing the Government in Wellington. By that time the thoughts of Tuhoe with regard to the surveys will be known. These surveys are all within the external boundary of the land of Tuhoe. That is the reason why I want this matter held over. Purewa said, —It was arranged that an hour should be left so that we could consider over the matter you submitted to us, and while you had an hour to consider the points we had raised. We have considered the matter in reference to the school, and have decided as to that particular subject. You have heard what Hetaraka said to-day ; and what I say is, We are not prepared to go on with the school. This is in reply to what was said, that the question of a school should proceed. The tribe have consented to the establishment of a school, but in this way Let the titles to the Euatoki Block be first ascertained and determined, then let us have the school. That is the reply we have to make with regard to the school. Let the titles be first determined, and then we will agree to the school. Hetaraka said, —The reason why I speak again upon this subject is because I was the one who laid the matter before the Minister. lam most anxious that the school should be established, not for the sake of my children, but for the children of us all. You have heard what the others have said on the subject, and I will explain to you the reason why I take up the position I do. This is the third year that myself, Numia, and others have been solicitous that a school should be established in the district. It is in consequence of dissension amongst us that Numia and myself have been unable to have a school. The reason why we have both been so anxious that the school should be put up is because we know the rising generation are growing up in the same state of ignorance that their fathers were in. It is for that reason we urge upon you to let us have a school, so that the children now growing up may not grow up in ignorance. Now, with regard to what Purewa says —that we should not have the school until the titles are determined—l would ask, Who are the owners of the land ? Irrespective of the owners of the land, the school would be for all the owners of the Tuhoe Tribe. Numia and myself have, during three years past, also thought of waiting until the titles of the land were ascertained before having the school erected, but we came to the conclusion that we might have to wait too long, and that the erection of the school should be proceeded with at once. Tutakangahau said, —Now, with respect to what has just been said, the request for the school is from us. You, the Premier, are the light of the world, therefore it is that I appeal to you to determine this matter If you say that the school should not be put up until the titles to the land are ascertained, very well. If you say the school should be erected forthwith, it is well. That is all I have to say on that subject, because the matter is in your hands. I will now direct my observa-

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tions to something else that has fallen from Hetaraka. He and I have made the first application for a survey We have already placed it in the hands of the Chief Surveyor That is the reason why I think that the question of surveys should be held over until we visit Wellington. The probabilities are that the Surveyor-General will know about the applications that we forwarded to him. They were forwarded from five hapus. Perhaps there were about thirty people who signed these applications for survey, so that if certain of the hapus should move in the matter the Premier will permit it to be held over. We will interview you about this thing, and you will have it in your hands, because this particular matter is a grievance to us, and will be brought before the great House of Parliament, where there are people who can seek out what is good and what is evil affecting the people of their country It is not that lam objecting to the surveys. No, it is that the chiefs of Tuhoe may be able to proceed in a definite manner in respect to this business. Purewa I wish to explain something with reference to what Hetaraka has said in regard to his application to a former Minister about a school. I was the one who stopped that work. The second application was made by Numia, and I also was the one who stopped it. This is the third time the question of a school has come up, the application now made to you. I again stopped the work. Mr Carroll I am going to speak in reference to this matter of the school. What has been said in regard thereto is perfectly clear You agree to the school being put up after the land i 3 put through the Court. It will be for the Minister to reply to that. Discussion or dissension now is mere waste of time. The Premier Coming to the question of a school, you have not known me very long, you have not been with me very long, but I think you will have come to the conclusion that any matter I speak upon or deal with I only do so after giving it the fullest consideration. I therefore strongly recommend you to leave this matter of a school to the Government and myself. Sometimes, when friends cannot agree, and an impartial person is called in to act between the parties, he can very soon settle any difficulty, and both are satisfied. Now, are you agreed that there is to be a school here? (Cries of "Yes, yes," and loud applause.) That reply gladdens my heart, because I can now see the light is dawning upon only question then that remains is, When is the school to go up? One says, " Let it go up at once," and the other says, " Let it go up when the block is through the Court." Now, can any one of you, at any time, stop the growth of the children who want education ? Can you give them back three years of their lives ? The life goes on still, just the same as the sun and the moon continue to move. The sun rises and sets, the moon comes and goes. Can any of you stop them ? Can he who objected to the school three years ago give back the lives to those children who still remain in ignorance ? Can he give three years of life to his own children, let alone the lives of other peoples'children? The answer is, No, he cannot do it; it is beyond his power Therefore, why should any one injure other peoples' children ? He can keep his own at home but why should he prevent other persons' children from going to school ? If a school was opened to-morrow, the Government would not send a policeman here to make all the children go to school. Let those parents who want to keep their children in ignorance, and slaves to others through their want of education, keep them so. With the great advance that the world is making, the rapid strides that are being made, and the developments that are taking place, if you do not give your children an education they will be the slaves of those who have education, and the parents will be to blame for this. Now, those who object, and only want the school to go up after the Euatoki Block has been put through the Court and the titles determined—to those I would say Suppose this block took twelve months in passing through the Land Court. There may be disputes, hearings, rehearings, and further hearings. Why should the children be punished by lack of education because the people cannot agree as to who owns the land ? With all civilized nations, even the most ignorant people on the face of the globe, at all events, never punish the innocent because of the guilty Why the children here should be kept in darkness, why their days should be darkened for all time, why they should suffer owing to a dispute about a particular piece of land, is to me a perfect mystery I cannot understand it. If these men who object had had the advantages of education in early life they would both have been better men to-day I know that to be the case, and I know that they both mean, well, but no one who objects to the school in his heart means well to these little ones. Does he want to punish the children? [A voice He does not.] I am glad to hear that answer I know you are in earnest. Your voice has the ring of sincerity in it. Therefore, not wishing to do it, are you prepared to leave this question to the Government, and if we see that this dispute about the land is going to be settled in a short time, we will go on with the school ? But if it is going to last much longer, are these unfortunate children going to be punished ? My words to-day are words of peace and kindness. Ido not want you to decide anything to-day but this question of the school, but I want you to weigh well everything that has been said, come to a decision, and let things progress. I want to get your confidence so that you may leave this matter for me to decide. That being so, you may all rest assured that the one thing that will weigh with me will be the future welfare of your children. My object is to assist and help those little ones whom you love so well. You told me to-day you looked upon me as your parent. I like that, and, as children are ever dear to their parents, so are you all to me, and in the interest of those children—being a parent to them —it is my duty to look after them, and I would not be doing this if I did not see that the benefits accruing from education were given to them. In the bright future that is in store for the Tuhoe you will want carpenters, you will want youths trained to important trades, young men who have had experience such as will benefit you by their skill and knowledge. In your altered circumstances, and with brighter prospects in store for you, you will want them in the fertilising of your soils and that they may improve cultivation, and they can only do this by your giving them education. This is one of the things above all other considerations which weighs with me when I say your children must be educated, in your interests as well as their own. You have now left the matter for me to decide, and lam sure that the

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decision I shall give later on will satisfy both the objectors and those who are asking for the school. With regard to the question that there should be no more surveys outside the internal boundary, and in which you say other tribes outside are interested, you ask me to see that this is carried into effect. I have told you once before to-day that people who come to a decision upon a matter in which other people are concerned wichout in any way consulting them make a great mistake. They do more—they do them a wrong. Then, why should I come to a decision here to-day, and give you an answer, without first going through the other districts, where I shall have an opportunity of meeting the other people. They would say to me, "If you are our father we are your children, just as much as the Tuhoe are, why should you come to a decision without consulting us?" You have said, Put off doing anything in relation to these surveys until we come to Wellington." Suppose you never come to Wellington, then I suppose it is to be put off for ever ? Now, perhaps these other people may want to come to Wellington, too. You might come to some arrangement amongst yourselves. I must give them the same chance as 1 give you. I must act fairly towards both parties. I have heard all that you have had to say, and after hearing what all the others have to say I will come to a decision. I will do nothing rashly for rashness leads to disaster I will, therefore, leave that question open. I have made no promise, mark you, because I cannot make a pledge until I have heard all concerned. But I have told you this, that in case anything is done you shall have full knowledge thereof, and it will be in accordance with my words to you to-day, that past grievances with regard to expense in dealing with your lands and other evils that have sprung up shall be avoided. My colleague has told you to-day that the Surveyor-General is having maps prepared so as to have the colony mapped throughout. It is for scientific purposes these topographical surveys are necessary, and it may be necessary to make them in your country, so that in mapping off the colony your country may appear on our plans. Now, topographical surveys are surveys wanted for scientific purposes. They do not cost the owners of the land anything. But if a complete survey is subsequently decided on, then there is so much expense saved, for these topographical surveys can be used ultimately for the purpose of subdividing the land. Whatever may be done with regard to topographical surveys, nothing will be done with respect to surveys in detail until I have consulted all the parties interested. Now, as I have heard you to-day, I think you will all admit it is only fair that I should listen to the words of the other people interested. I think you will agree with me that that is a fair thing to do. I have just a few words of advice I wish to give you, and I wish you to weigh them well. My words are these When the titles to the land are being ascertained, do not fly at each other's throats like mortal enemies, determined to take the lives of each other—the one determined to wrong the other—but assist us as far as you can , meet amongst yourselves appoint arbitrators—a committee, if you like , search out and ascertain amongst yourselves as to the interests in and titles to the land. If you do that, you will save yourselves expense, and will not create any ill-feeling. If you persevere in that, you will get the land amongst you, but if, on the other hand, you go quarrelling and fighting like mortal enemies, you will lose the land , the lawyers' fees and the expenses will swell up, and you will get nothing. These words, you will find, are for your benefit. If you will only follow this advice, it will save expense and illfeeling, and it will preserve the land to those to whom it belongs. That is why I said to-day I would study your convenience and bring the Court right up to Euatoki. I shall watch carefully from time to time and see how you are progressing, and if I can be of any service you can rest assured that service will be cheerfully rendered, because I do not desire to see the land frittered away in expenses. I do not want to see any ill-feeling engendered, and Ido not want to see the land go from the people who are entitled to it. I want to see every man get his land, go upon it with his wife and children and cultivate it, and to know it is their own land they are improving. There is no man who feels so happy as the man who is upon his own land, cultivating it, and making it productive, so that his wife and children may live comfortably on it, and the sooner one and all of you know what is your own, the better it will be for you, the better for the Europeans, and the colony generally Now, you have mentioned to-day —and I have heard remarks also relative to it—that there was gold and silver on the land you claimed. I have been told by a scientist that there are rivers and gold in the moon, yet the Government have never sent any one up to- it to prospect for them, and the Government are. not going to send anybody to prospect on your land. But whatever you do towards ascertaining the titles to your land will not put the gold there, and if it is there it will not take it away Therefore, until this larger question is settled as to the ownership of the land and ascertaining the titles, the other matter must be left in abeyance, the Government will not interfere. So you do not require to have any anxiety upon that account. The last question I have to touch upon is a matter which was brought under my notice to-day, and that is in regard to those people who broke the law on a former occasion, and for whose arrest warrants have been issued. If I was to take up a position such as my friend on the right did in regard to the school, and said " Taihoa! taihoa! " (Wait, wait) you would be grieved, would you not? In the case of these men it is worse, for they are not free to go where they like. They might be required to attend the Court to give evidence as to titles, and if they went to Whakatane they might not come back, and yet, if their evidence was not given, it might do a wrong to the people who owned the land. I will explain to you the law In the first place, the law is beyond the Government it is beyond myself. If any one breaks the law, the Government cannot stop the law taking its course, and the law is there just as much for the Natives as for the Europeans. Any one who breaks that law—no matter what race he belongs to —that law says he must be dealt with as by it defined. You asked me whether I could withdraw these warrants. I cannot do so. The Governor —aye, even the Queen herself— could not withdraw those warrants, but when once the persons who are wrongdoers have been brought before the Court, then the Queen or the Governor, upon the advice of his Ministers, could say, ' Taihoa, it is enough, the law has been sufficiently vindicated, the trouble is over " I believe, myself, from what I have seen and from what has taken place, that the trouble is all over. On my

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return to Wellington, I will look into the matter carefully and see what can be done. I think the course to be pursued will be that these people must surrender themselves to the authorities and go before the Court, and the Court, or whoever appears for the Crown, would make a statement as to the wishes of the Crown in respect to the cases. Then, after that, the prerogative of the Crown, through the Governor, can be exercised by simply saying they had been sufficiently punished, that they had promised there should be no further breaches of the law, that Tuhoe had. told me that for the future they were going to be with us and obey our laws, no matter what other tribes did. I would then recommend the Governor to grant the clemency of the Crown. Now, who may I communicate*with after I have looked into this matter in Wellington ? Who shall I send the communication to advising what course is to be pursued ? The Natives To Makirini. The Premier Very well, that is good, that is the only course that is open. Now, I told you earlier in the afternoon that in other places the people had a flag. Since I have been Minister for the Natives I have made a present of the flag of our Queen and country Now, when I hear through one of your chiefs, or from those who come to meet the Government in Wellington, that you have put up a flagstaff, I will, on the part of the Government, find you a flag to put there, and that fact will speak to the outside world against anything else; it will remove that reproach that has been cast upon the Tuhoe that they were never friendly—always against the Government, and against our laws. You have to-day given me words you have passed your words to me , you have told me to-day that from this time forward you will be loyal subjects of the Queen, and obey her law You have given me words that have pleased me. When we met this morning we were a long distance apart, but we have been getting closer and closer until we are now here all together All reservation has gone, the mist has been cleared away, and I am overjoyed to think that such is the case. When Sir Donald McLean came amongst you he was your friend, he advised you wisely I have been amongst you to-day, and Ido not regret it. It has been a day well spent in the interests of both races, and I thank you very heartily on behalf of the Government for the welcome you have accorded to us, and for the confidence you have given us in letting me know your minds. If any trouble arises in the future, and you feel a doubt in your minds, do not hesitate a moment. If you cannot telegraph, send some one down to me, so that I can dispel the trouble as the sun dispels the mist that sometimes comes on your mountain-tops. Men, women, and children of Tuhoe, I conclude by giving you kind and friendly greeting, and I say good-bye. (Loud cheering) At the conclusion of the meeting the chief Kereru presented the Premier with his taiaha, which the chief said was an earnest that there was to be peace for the future, and that the Tuhoe intended to be with the Government and obey the laws. The taiaha once belonged to the ancestor who formerly owned the Euatoki Block, and it is called Eongokaeke after him. The claims to the block will be founded on this ancestor The flagstaff the tribe are going to put up will bear the same name as this taiaha, as also the large house now in the course of erection. The fact of the old chief, the head of his tribe, handing over to the Premier the sceptre of that tribe is in itself very significant. No better proof of the earnest wish of the tribe to conform to the laws of the Queen could possibly be given. From a Maori point of view such a gift means perfect submission, and is symbolical of an intention to abandon all unfriendliness and to live in peace in the future. The chief Kereru informed the Premier that his nephew would accompany him right through the country, so that he might see him safe to his journey's end. He said, " There is the country, you are free to go where you like and do what you like. My nephew shall accompany you, and see you safe to your journey's end, and then return." A Bough Jouenby to Galatea. The weather was now so bad that Mr Seddon was strongly urged on all sides not to attempt the journey onwards. The rivers and creeks were in high flood, and some of the residents went so far as to say that if the party proceeded on its journey they would not answer for the consequences. However, the Prsmier would not be dissuaded. He returned to Mr. Gould's station, stayed there the night, and on the following morning the whole party made a start, Mr. Grant, the manager for Mr Gould, kindly accompanying the Premier for some ten miles. It is impossible to describe the horsetrack to Galatea ■ suffice it to say that the animals were simply crawling, slipping, and floundering amongst roots and mud from the time they ascended the hill till they reached the flat creek-bed. On arrival at Galatea the Natives welcomed the Premier, and performed a haka in his honour. Meeting at Galatea. The following morning the meeting assembled. The proceedings were opened by the Ngatamana Tribe singing a song of welcome. Hare Hare was the first speaker. He said, —Welcome to the Minister, father of the orphans ! Welcome to the territory of Tuhoe, that you may see your people and also see the people of Ngatiwhare and Patuheuheu. We are all your tribes and under your mana. Come and give life to the people of this island. Come and attend to the Ngatimamawa and Urewera. The chiefs here represent them all. They are collected here before you. Come in company with my boy, Tirfrm Kara, He is the one whom I sent to your great House to represent our matters to you. I instructed him to go and bring forth the offspring of our Parliament. (Chant of welcome.) Kewi said, —Welcome, my friend ! Welcome, you who occupy the position of one seeing to the interests of both races ! 0 my friend, heretofore up to the present time your consideration has been stronger on one side than on the other, but if |from to-day you adjust your attention Ccjrefully over both parties, good may come of it. Therefore, you will hear what these people have to say to you. It is well you have come here. As you are visiting other places you should hear what each kaianga has to say Welcome ! Come and listen to what each has to say You need not reply here, you can reply from your Big House in Wellington, after you have heard what you hear to-day. I must thank you for coming to visit us. 10—G 1.

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Pihopa said, —Welcome ! the Government, come to see me, come to see the Tuhoe who were always troublesome in the past. Come in friendship, come in love ! This course was adopted by our Saviour I have nothing to say on behalf of the Ngatimanawa. They were always friendly to the Government, but Tuhoe has been different. However " Let the past bury itself. Bring us love If it is lovs you are bringing, 0 Premier, come to rule the destinies of this Island, come and give us a bit of your attention. Do not confine it to one race. Welcome, O Premier! If you instruct well your child he may grow up to be a credit to you, but I may point out thai; he may prove as easily spoiled as a spoilt child Welcome to you, Mr Carroll Wi Patene said, —Welcome to the representative of the Government ! Welcome also to the Hon. Mr Carroll, your colleague ! It is well you have come here. It is your duty to come and see the orphans of our race. Come and visit these isolated parts, Ruatahuna and Tuhoe—Tuhoe who have not borne a reputable name in the past. They have been the wild turbulent tribe of this island. Your coming may be the signal for everything to shine over the land. We have a lot to say to you. Welcome, omy friend, to Te Whaiti, at which place you are going to see the majestic hills and mountains They remain, but the people have gone. You are like the snow which clothes the mountain-tops, which creates a freezing sensation. We hope you bring with you the sun that will take away that freezing sensation for a very long time, and that its warm influence will be felt over us. Again I say to you, welcome to Te Whaiti! The Premier: To the tribes of the Native race here assembled, I offer you salutations, words of kindness, and good-feeling. My words, my salutations, and my kind greetings come to you from the whole of New Zealand. I am only expressing the wishes and feelings of over six hundred thousand pakehas when I say they send to you through me a very kind greeting and their goodfellowship. I have travelled a long distance to see you. I have encountered dangers and difficulties, but you are quite right when you say it is proper we should come and see you and meet you face to face. You are the remnant of a great race that formerly inhabited this island. It is well that those from a distance should come to see those who are here, so to speak, out of the world. It is right that we should bring you kind greetings and salutations. When your friends come from a distance to see you, when they come amongst you and let you know what is going on in other parts, it gladdens your hearts. When you feel lonely you go and visit your friends in other parts, and it gladdens the hearts of those you go to see. It is very pleasing to me to hear your welcome, it gladdens my heart, and will gladden the hearts of many others when I tell them of it. lam also very pleased to find the Ngatimanawa, Ngatiwhare, and Tuhoe present here to give me this welcome. It is very pleasant, and I am glad to be reminded that the Ngatimanawa have always been friendly towards the Government. Seeing the representative of the Government here to-day will remind them of that loyalty which they have always displayed towards the Queen and the Government. It must be also pleasing to the Ngatimanawa to find that the troubles of the past are not revived, and to see the Tuhoe with them welcoming the representative of the Government. You will be further pleased to hear from my lips that I have just passed the mountains after having seen the Tuhoe—a large number of them, and their chiefs have assured me, on behalf of Tuhoe, that peace and goodwill shall henceforth exist between you and the Government and between the two races. I have seen Natives from the east, west, north, and south, but when I met the Tuhoe and received from them this assurance, given<in, good faith to the Government, it made my heart rejoice, because I said the mist had been removed, and the light of day, the bright sunshine, was at last dawning upon them. The Ngatimanawa will be pleased, I know, when I tell them that the Tuhoe has decided to live under the British flag, they are going to have one at their settlement to remind them of their promise, and to cement the friendship that is to exist between themselves and the pakehas. The day is not far distant when the short distance between here and Euatoki—the journey to which is fraught with much difficulty and personal risk, and which now takes so long a time to traverse —when you and the Tuhoe will be able to travel it with ease, and exchange visits with each other One of your chiefs just now said we were like the snow , that when the snow appeared there was a freezing sensation, and he hoped we brought with us the sun, as the sun would take away that freezing sensation, and the snow would disappear for a very long season. There will be no freezing to-day The sun shines above us all irrespective of race, colour, or surroundings. As that sun shines so do the Government wish to throw their protection over one and all of you in order that you may enjoy the warmth that belongs to you who belong to a noble race. It is our wish that you may increase and multiply, that you may prosper and live happy and contented. These are not empty words—not words only—it is not mere sentiment, it is the honest truth, spoken to you by one who desires to help you, not like the words spoken by one of your members last night, which were sarcastic. Still, he was very near the mark when he said that in the past the Prime Minister and the Native Minister had been like something kept in a glass case, afraid to meet the people and look at them , and when the Minister did come you saw a man like yourselves who had come to speak to you, only somewhat different in colour lam the Minister for the Native race, not the Minister against the Native race, and there is no loss of dignity I merely wish to speak to you as one friend should speak to another, because I come to see you to insure that our relative positions can be maintained with respect on both sides. It does not take mana from your rangatira because he sits with you and eats with you as one of yourselves. You still respect his mana —his position. I say it is impossible to govern you, it is impossible to help you, unless we know what your troubles are, and how we can best remove them once and for all. When we want to help the pakeha, when the Europeans are in trouble, when there is a cloud upon their minds, they command their rangatiras to send the Minister to come and see them to explain what the Government is doing, and they put their grievances before him. If the Minister did not do so, and try to remove those grievances, they would turn him and his Government out. They would say, " You are no good for us , we will get others." Now, the Native race have representatives in the Big House, in the Parliament House, in Wellington. It is true there are only four Native members in that House, but you have the same, if not a greater, proportion of representatives

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in the House than have the pakehas. It is to that Parliament you must look to redress your grievances. You must trust to that Parliament doing you and your race justice. You must see that I and my colleagues lead that House and those members aright. It is our desire to help them on the right path—the path that will lead to prosperity We wish to see the Native race and hear what they desire. Therefore, you have now an opportunity to speak out your minds. Do not let your minds disguise your thought, but speak as men. If your tongues are forked they disguise the thoughts that are within your minds, then you yourselves will be to blame. The chief of the Ngatimanawa said he looked upon my colleague, Mr Carroll, as a son, that he had sent him to Parliament, and hoped he would do him justice. All I can say is he deserves credit for sending so substantial and promising a son to Parliament. My colleague is a very old son from so young a father There would be very great difficulty, if we put the two together, in saying which was the father and which was the son. But there is no doubt whatever that my taking this son of the Ngatimanawa with me on this my trip to the Native race in the different parts of the colony has been a great advantage to me, and will greatly benefit the Natives. I feel sure from that fact alone that you may look forward to good results. One of the chief speakers here to-day said that no doubt I was here to listen, and that you would not expect replies to the matters brought before me, but that I would reply when I got back to the Big House in Wellington. Up to the present I have heard nothing but your good and kind welcome. Your songs of welcome are still ringing pleasantly in my ears. I shall ever remember with pleasure our pleasant social meeting last night, but I still desire to listen to you and to know what your wants, requirements, wishes, and aspirations are. I must apologize for not being able to give you timely notice of my visit, because if I had done so your numbers here to-day would have been ten times as great as I see before me now but, as the pakehas say, it is not always from the numbers that you get the greatest wisdom, and there are quite sufficient representatives of the Native race and of the different tribes to lay plainly before the Government, to let me know, your desires, how you are situated, and to let me help you. Once more I thank you for your kind welcome. lam your friend , speak, and I will listen. Mehaka said, —Welcome, Timi Kara! lam glad to see you here to-day with our parent. A truce to greetings. Now to business. My first word is this We cannot finish our business today You will have to give me until to-morrow. This is no small event, the fact of your presence here, considering the great office you hold in the colony It is a marvel to us that you have exercised such fortitude and overcome so many difficulties to get here. Even your journey from Euatoki to this place was no small task, and we can only congratulate ourselves that you have undertaken it to see us who live in these parts. I speak now on behalf of Patuheuheu. I have a grievance I have land under cultivation, but I have no means by which I can convey the produce I reap from it to the European centres. I have now to make a request to you that a road be opened up from this side along the track you came yesterday so as to open up communication with Botorua and Whakatane. It is time this place was connected with Ohinemutu by a good road. We should also be connected with Whakatane. The only outlets for my produce are Ohinemutu and Eotorua, and I should like to have an outlet by way of Whakatane, because it may so happen that I may get a better price for my produce at Whakatane than at Eotorua. Why should I be shut out from such a market ? Another subject I will touch upon is the establishment of a school at Tahohi. I make this request to you to-day to establish a school there, and I want the Government to take for school purposes the two acres that I selected for a site. Enough on that subject. The third subject is a matter respecting Waiohau. This is a matter we took to Parliament when you, Mr Carroll, also represented us in the House. If the Government can take this matter—that is to say, the dispute that existed and still exists between Mr Piper and myself—into their hands, I would like it very much. When the survey of a certain road was going on the Government did not let the Natives know These Natives might be excused for taking up a hostile attitude. I mention this because I think it is my duty to do so, and to save any misunderstanding, so that when the Government want to survey ample notice should be given to us. We hope the Government will not think it was open hostility when we took up the attitude we did. You might also consider this that my people had for a long time remained in obscurity in the recesses of their country, not going into the light, and that now on their first coming out they are eager to join with the new administration. They hear this would benefit them and offer facilities, and by doing this they should be encouraged. We are told the law will relieve the people. When the law confers benefits upon the people it should receive every encouragement. There is another matter I want to bring before you. There was a block of land investigated and sold to the Government. Now some of my children were included in the titles as owners, and their interests were seized upon by the Government and transferred to the Public Trustee. I would like to have the administration of my own children's property I should like their interests handed back to them, so that if they like to keep their property they can, and if they want to sell, I will sell for them. I now want to speak on behalf of the Patuheuheu people. They have always been a loyal tribe. Many took up arms on the side of the Government. Some of them are now tottering on the brink of eternity Their time is brief in this world, and I think they should receive some consideration for their services in the past, which should not be forgotten. In conclusion, after pointing out the various matters to you, I would say I should like you, before this meeting is at an end, to show us how we can put all this to you. The Premier : I will deal at once with the matters which have been brought under my notice by the last speaker The first matter was the question of making a road through from here to Euatoki so as to open up the country, give the people facilities for travelling and taking their produce to the best market. Now the Government is favourable to opening up the country so as to let the light of day in amongst the Natives, and give the Native settlers the best means of communication. But at Euatoki the Natives had a meeting lasting from the end of February to the 4th of March, the result of which was that they decided that they did not want any roads at all, they would not have them. I was pained when I heard that, because they are standing in their own

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light, they are doing themselves an injury, and they are injuring you and their neighbours. Now, if the Government was to undertake to make a survey, and say, " We will put the road through in spite of you," then they might have cause to complain. But I have asked them to reconsider the matter, and explained to them that they were doing themselves an injury, and were injuring their neighbours as well. It would be well, I think, for those who want a road here, and to whose interest it would be, to consider the matter among yourselves. I met yesterday a large number of Natives going across the hill —and the road is almost dangerous to life, independent of the inconvenience, and you ought to seriously consider this matter amongst yourselves. The Government is favourable to the construction of the road right through, and the construction thereof would find work for the Natives which would help them very much. There would be no evil effects if the road were made. It would not take the land, and it would not give the Government any greater power, but would give greater facilities to the Natives for travelling and conveying their produce to the market, and would open up the country to the world. Parliament will meet next June. We have some money now, and if that money is not taken for that work now, it will not be done perhaps for very many years. If you had better roads, the people who govern you would come to see you often. It is almost dangerous to life to come by the road you have at the present time. In fact, one of our party nearly lost his life last night. Talk the matter over amongst yourselves now, and let me know in time, so that I can reserve some money for that road, and then I can, when making that road, see that the different hapus have their share in making it. In regard to road-making and laying off roads, I listened with great attention to the remarks made to the effect that no notice had been given of the intention to survey the roads. Now, from this day forward I will give instructions that, in laying off roads, notice must be given to the Natives of the intention to do so before the surveyors are sent upon the ground. That will prevent any ill-feeling being engendered, and it would not cost anything. If it was European land the Europeans would know what was intended to be done, and they would receive notice. So my words are spoken. I will assist the Natives in that respaet, and will see they are treated the same as the pakehas, and get due notice. Now, as regards the school. A letter has been received about it, but some question was asked about the titles to the land, and what block it was on. How many children are there ? The Natives: There are thirty-two at the school now, and the land is outside the Waiohau Block. The Premier My heart gladdens when I hear you ask for a school, and that you have devoted land for it. You ask for the benefits of civilisation. You ask that your children should be put upon the same footing as the European children. Your forefathers arranged that your children should have these advantages, and I will see that the boon is granted to you permanently I want to point out one thing to you, however, and that is, that it is far better to have one large school than to have two or three small ones, always providing that the distance is not too great for the children to go to it; but your request is reasonable, because there is a river to cross, and there are no roads, and the little children could not travel so far under those circumstances. 1 now come to the next subject—the question in dispute between Mr Piper and your tribe as regards this land. The matter has not come before me officially and I am therefore not in a position to give you a definite answer to-day I must make myself master of the details of the case, and deal with it accordingly But Mr Carroll tells me that an injustice has been done. On my return to Wellington I will look into the matter personally, and if, after going carefully through the papers, I find that an injustice has been done, then I say the wrong shall be removed. I believe the wrong done in the first place was not done by Mr Piper, but that you are suffering from the wrong done by others. But all the same, if the land has been wrongfully taken from the proper owners, that wrong should be redressed. I believe the late Government did offer, if you took it to the Supreme Court, to assist you with money to get it through the Court, but you were led to take a course advocated by one of your own raco. However I will look into it, and if I can adjust the matter for you, as between the parties, I shall be only too glad to put it right. As regards the next question —the sale of the land, and your children's interest being handed over to the Public Trustee —that is the law, and the law being there, I cannot interfere. Now, what led to that law being passed was that there were some bad parents and trustees who did away with the children's interests, and when the children wanted their money it was all gone. Then it was said that the Public Trustee should deal with all such lands. Ido not wish to cast any reflection upon you, because I believe you are good parents, but there are some bad parents who have wronged their own children. If we could in some instances give a discretionary power—that is, where we found the parents were good and competent to look after the interests of their own children—l think that is a matter worthy of consideration. Now, as regards the destitution of the Potuheuheu Tribe, I admit the force of your argument, that, having stood loyally and true to the Queen, and being now in a destitute condition, their case is one where the Government should assist, so that they should not be in want. I should be deeply pained if I thought there existed any cases of that kind, where the old people were destitute or in want. There is a fund at my disposal out of which I can alleviate suffering of that kind. It would be better, therefore, for the hapu to meet and consult amongst themselves, and if there are one or two extreme cases, they might send in their recommendations to me so that I might consider them. I will leave that to you, relying upon your being truthful in what you represent to me. Nothing would give me more pain than to think that those who had been friends of the' Government were left in want in their old age. Ido not wish that, and will not let be if it is in my power to prevent it. Best assured, you will not appeal to me in vain on behalf of your old and destitute people. Knowing as Ido your kind feeling and the hospitality and assistance you render to your own race, I also know that you would not mention this matter if there were not some cases of destitution amongst you. I shall expect to hear from you when I get back to the Big House. I have now dealt with all the subjects that have been brought under my notice. We have got to ride to Te Whaiti to-night, and I should feel grateful if you would send some one on ahead to prepare a camp for us, and we could then stop a little later

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with you. But it would not do to run the risk of injuring any one of our party through wire fences. Considering that I scale 2001b. it would be rather a heavy fall for me if I came to the ground. If I can get to my destination before nightfall I shall be satisfied. I therefore hope you will be as brief as possible , but, at the same time, I want you to let me know the several matters you wish me to have attended to, but be as brief as possible. Wharehuia said, —Speaking on behalf of the Ngatimanawa, in regard to the Whirinaki Block, we want that block subdivided, because we are selling it to the Government. We want the Court to go on with that block. The Ngatimanawa was told that the Public Trustee had control of theinterests of their children. Very well, if we cannot manage it, we will hand it over to the Public Trustee. But I went to Eotorua, and found the same rule was not observed there. The people who would not hand over their land to the Public Trustee were allowed to sell as they liked. I wish you to look into this matter There is no money for the Public Trustee to administer The Premier I will do so, and see what can be done. Wharehuia The Ngatimanawa people have always been identified with the Government, and have never attempted any departure. I have nothing else to say We have always acted with the Government, and intend to do so. Te Waia Salutations to you and those with you under the rule and sovereignty of our Most Gracious Majesty the Queen ! (Song of welcome.) After hearing you speak to-day, and after taking notes of what was said on both sides, the meeting has been characterized by us as satisfactory to both parties. The meeting has been very satisfactory. The song you have heard was a song of triumph in the olden times. It was composed ages ago by our forefathers, and was sung on occasions like this, where everything terminated satisfactorily Hare Hare (head chief of the tribe) lam very pleased indeed at the way in which you replied to the subjects brought before you. On behalf of the Ngatimanawa I can only repeat, through the co-operation of the Ngatimanawa and Ngatiwhare, this country is now opened up. These persons I have just mentioned are all that are left of the older generations of the Ngatimanawa people. We are their descendants. We are the younger generation. We have never been in receipt of any special favours, and have never asked for any. The Ngatimanawa have never received any favours from the Queen, nor have they received appointments as assessors. All the surveys in this country were effected by the Ngatimanawa in obedience to the behest of the Government against all opposition , and every survey we have carried through successfully All this land you see here was handed over unconditionally to the Government. We always acted under the instructions of the Government. I have carried out roads, surveys, land courts, leases, and sales. Mine is only a small hapu. I have always stuck to the Queen, and I have been defended by the Queen, I have always been supported by her Now this is my application to you I have told you I have always stuck to the Queen, and never troubled her much, or the Government either , but I am going to make this application to you. I want Te Whaiti surveyed off, and my own position defined. The Ngatimanawa is distinct from the Tuhoe. I do not want them mixed up with the others. I do not want the Tuhoe ring, or territorial boundary, as it is styled. I want my land dealt with distinctly from the others. 88 acres were given by the Government to my people out of that coast-line. That land is now in the hands of the Europeans. We want the Government to give affect to the kindness of the days of yore, and return us that gift. I take this opportunity of bringing this matter before you, because we know there is always an uncertainty that concerns everything, and you may be out of office by and by So while you are in office I would like to have the thing settled. This was an absolute gift by the Government to ourselves, which was never received. Here is another matter I collected a subscription towards the cost of making the road through my country That money was in the hands of the Government agent. I collected that money with my own hands to form this road. Now I ask the Government to make this road, which you will travel over, wider It is my right, I have done so much, and I ask the Government to widen that road so that my carts can go through. There is another thing I would point out to you By doing this you would, tap the huge totara-forests. The timber trade would be developed, and would go in a great measure to Eotorua. This would tend to benefit, not only ourselves, but everybody That would be the result, and I strongly urge upon you the necessity of granting my request by widening this road. This is another matter I want the Government to lease all this land which the Court has reserved for the Ngatimanawa in different parts, and give me the profit. As it is I can do nothing with it. I want you to give effect to all my requests now that you are a Minister Ido not want to mince matters. I have land over these ranges. I want to sell it to the Government. We have made many applications to the Government, but never received any replies to our communications. I shall cease now, I do not want to overburden you. The Premier It is just as well that you have reminded me that nothing has been done at all by the Government for you, and that no position of profit has ever been given to you. I can only express my regret that the services rendered by you have not been recognised sooner, and your application has all the greater weight because, notwithstanding all this neglect, you have still stood a firm friend of the Government. I know it must hurt your feeling sometimes when you see others, who have not at all times been friends of the Government, receiving favours, it must be painful to you, and it makes the obligation all the greater But, as I said before, send to me at once, stating in what way you think help can be given, and that help shall be given. I shall expect to hear from you when I get back, and I give you this assurance : that your communication shall not be treated as in the past, but I will attend to it. Any promises I make I always perform. As regards the survey at Te Whaiti At Euatoki they objected to its being surveyed, and passed resolutions accordingly and wanted me to stop all surveys, but I told them I would hear what you had to say before I would give a decision. I also told them that these people, who did not want to know what they claimed, would weaken their position if they did

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not want to know what they had got. If it belongs to them, and they have an interest there, why do not they find it out, so that every man could know what he owns ? I have told them the Government can do it whether they like it or not. It is in the interest of the Native owners to know what they really possess. What belongs to them let them keep, and what belongs to you you are entitled to have and do as you like with. They know very well this, that all the country does not belong to them, and why should they assume a "dog-in-the-manger" attitude, doing nothing with it themselves and trying to prevent you from doing anything with it ? I say it weakens their case. Well, so that neither case shall be prejudiced, the Government, which is a strong friend of both parties, wishes the two parties to come to a decision on this matter to decide what is to be done.- I will not decide to-day, but you know my opinion. I believe it is in the interest of all concerned to have the titles to the whole of the land ascertained, so that we may know who it belongs to. They are living in poverty and want to keep you in the same condition. You simply have the land to look at, but in the meantime you are dying off. This unfortunate state of affairs must be stopped, and the sooner it is stopped the better it will be for all concerned. I will say nothing further on that subject, because I have to speak to others that are interested as well as you. I am a fair man, and want to do what is right after hearing all that is said on both sides. Touching the 88 acres promised by the Government, lam not aware of any promise , but I will take your word for it. I shall have the particulars ascertained as to how the matter stands and whether anything can be done, and by what right Mr Burt is now occupying it. Where I find your word verified by the record, the promise made by the Government, to the friendly Natives especially, ought, in my opinion, to be performed. I will therefore inquire into this on my return to Wellington. You might also write to me giving the particulars as to when the promise was made, together with the details of the circumstances, so so that I may trace the history of it. You will find this will not be like many letters you have sent to other Governments. You will find your letters will be attended to. Touching the next question, that you had contributed money for a road to Te Whaiti. That will be another reason why that land should be dealt with, because the road, of course, will go in that direction. The fact of your having spent your money makes the claim stronger that the Government should do something. Before I go to sleep to-night I shall probably know that there is a reason for making a road there. I tell you I am favourable to this being done in this country, and I am sure great benefits will result to both races by the opening up of these roads, and I will recommend to the Minister of Lands when Igo back to Wellington that this road be improved and widened. Nothing can be done until Parliament votes the money for it, but I will bring it up before the Government, so that appropriations for the purpose may be made on the next year's estimates. I hope the Tuhoe will not object to that road the same as they have to the other They do not often go that way, but they might certainly give you, who want to bring your produce to market, that convenience without being selfish and trying to stop it. It would strengthen my hands, and the hands of the Government, if you would send a joint request to have that road widened. I think I have dealt with all the main questions mentioned by you. As regards leasing and selling land to the Government, Parliament has passed a law under which a majority of the owners can hand their land over to us to dispose of. All you have got to do is to send me a resolution carried by a majority of the owners, and I will undertake that the Government will sell for you. Send me particulars by letter of the land you want us to deal with, so that I can take the first steps necessary to have it done for you, and we will deal with it expeditiously , and you will get the best value to be got for this land. I have nothing further to say but to express my pleasure at having heard from you what your desires are, and that your requests are so reasonable. Pihopa said, —I have no objection to the road, but, still, I must side with the tribal resolutions about the boundary, but the Minister has answered all the questions. I hail with pleasure what has been decided upon—that certain chiefs of the Tuhoe should go to Wellington and confer with the Government. Whatever is said in Wellington we cannot take exception to. Maramu said, —The 88 acres mentioned by Hare Hare —that matter was put before Mr Cadman , whether it will come to anything or not I do not kno\v , but I see by the Gazette that the Court sits at Whakatane this month, and probably it will be brought up then. There is another matter I would like to draw your attention to. These people have suffered a great deal owing to the long distance they have to travel to attend the Native Land Courts. The subject of old soldiers' claims has been dealt with by other speakers. You have asked for our grievances to be submitted to you. There is one thing pressing very heavily upon us, and that is the mode of dealing with applications for rehearings. I refer to the sitting of the Court which inquires into the applications of those who are dissatisfied with the decision of the Native Land Court. In many cases where a judgment is given by the Native Land Court, the Court of Inquiry orders a rehearing, and the second Court gives the same judgment as the first. This creates inconvenience, and time is wasted. I know it is the law, and you cannot go against it, but what I ask is that you should get the law amended. The procedure could be much simplified. Argument has first to be heard as to whether there should be a Court; and why not settle then whether there should be a rehearing or not ? If there are 100 European members in Parliament, there should be 100 Native members also. In administering the affairs of the country the Europeans want it all one way and the Maoris the other Let there be two Native Ministers, and let both work it out. The Premier I hope you will not think me discourteous, but if you have anything further to say and have not time to say it now, write it down and send it to Wellington. I wjll now say a few words with respect to what the last speaker touched on. I quite concur with him that the Courts ought to be brought closer to where the majority of the people who own land are located. Great evils result from bringing the Natives into the large towns, and I intend for the future to bring the Courts as far as I can to where the Native owners whose land is going through the Court are located. I told the Tuhoe the same. The next question is the question of rehearings. I have come to the conclusion that the law as at present in force with regard to rehearings is very bad

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indeed, and it is our intention to alter it. I quite agree that when an application has been made and people claim that an error has been committed, in that case only there should be a rehearing by way of appeal. We do not have the same law applied to Europeans, and why it should be made to apply to the Maoris I cannot imagine. We wish so far as practicable to put the law as regards the Natives on the same footing as it applies to the Europeans. I have long felt that a great injustice has been done to the Natives by these rehearings, and expenses incurred by them through defects in the law I will say nothing more now, but conclude by expressing to one and all our friendship and very good wishes, and the hope that the good feeling that now exists will ever continue, and that we shall be able to look back with pleasure to our meeting to-day I hope you will be able to look back with pleasure to the time when the Prime Minister came amongst you Salutations, and farewell! Greetings to you all assembled ! A Stabt was then made foe Tβ Whaiti Which was reached at 5 p.m. The Premier received an enthusiastic reception, and a preliminary meeting was held at 8 p.m. The first speaker was Tafru, who said, —Welcome the Premier, who comes in the name of our Most Gracious Majesty the Queen! Who has ever seen the Queen? We only see her as represented by her laws. Come to this place, the settlement of Te Whaiti! You see here the descendants of the people who made Te Whaiti a settlement. The leader of this place is absent, but nevertheless, come and visit the place ! Come in company with Mr. Carroll, the member who was returned by us to represent our affairs in the great House of New Zealand, he who was sent to represent the Native people and advise what was for their good and reject that which was for their ill. This house we are in at the present time is called Eoukiwi. I built this to conform to the laws of your Government. You instructed us to exercise the privilege of representation. I voted, we all voted, and this house was put up for that purpose. I have witnessed the evil which has befallen us through the survey I have witnessed it befall the people outside of our circle. But at the present time I say to you, Welcome! bring here the new things that are created elsewhere , let us look at them. I greet you, the Government, especially for having come. If you have come here to bring salvation to the people, come ! I repeat my greetings to you, the administrator of the law We are also under the law Sufficient! Te Wharepapa said, —This is a time set apart wherein we offer our greetings to the Premier and his colleague. This place is Te Whaiti, and the hapu is Ngatiwhare. I have certain subjects to lay before you, but I would prefer doing so at eight o'clock to-morrow morning. At the present time I shall confine myself to welcoming the Premier This is the first time you have been seen in person by the Native people. The Native people have never been able to originate anything to themselves out of which they could obtain benefit or salvation. Everything has come from you. Consequently we congratulate ourselves upon witnessing, for the first time, the presence of the Premier of the colony amongst us. We are thankful and rejoice at being able to meet the Premier face to face, and exchange words with him. All communications hitherto between us have been by letter and you can understand the extreme pleasure we feel in having the head of the law in person here to join us and to speak to us. When I lay my subjects before you, I shall have the pleasure of hearing you reply in words, with your own voioe. But let me offer you my welcome. Have you come to bring good to the Native people, or have you come to bring evil ? If you are here to bring that which will be good for the Native people, come ! I take it that you were inspired to make this visit, to come among the Native people, and I only hope and trust that your present visit will be productive of good to the Native race. My address to you is now ended. Kereama said, —It is a law with the Maori people to welcome those who visit them. My heart is full of gladness at seeing you in person. Salutations to you all !It is well that we should exchange greetings. The people you see now are the Ngatiwhare, who are living in their settlement at Te Whaiti. Welcome the Premier, bringing with you that which will put life into the Ngatiwhare ! Hitherto it has only been through the ears that we have known you. Now we see you with our eyes, and that is a token that you have come to save us. Welcome because these people —the Ngatiwhare—have not yet seen salvation. They do not know even yet whether they are alive or dead. Therefore we hail with delight your visit to Te Whaiti, that the Ngatiwhare may see you, and that you may see them. Ido not suppose we shall have another opportunity of seeing you. We may not again have such an opportunity On leaving here you may vanish from us for all time. So we take this opportunity of inviting you not only to our place, but to request that you will put us in possession of what will be for our welfare. It would be well if it were possible that, having once broken the ice, you should repeat your visit. To-morrow you will be hidden from our view ; you will be on your way to Euatahuna. Tuhoe is there. Salutations to you all! Wharehuia said, —Although I addressed you at Galatea, I have followed you to this place, the end of my boundary, and now lamon my native heath. I greet you, Mr Carroll, especially, as you bring me such a visitor as the Premier Take him round and show him all our kaingas. Let him see us as we are , let him hear our thoughts as they are. Hence it is lam so glad you have brought our Premier to us. The Premier may have heard of such places as Te Whaiti, and of such people as the Ngatiwhare, but whatever he may have heard must now sink into oblivion, because he is here in person amongst us, and he can see and hear for himself. The Premier will have an opportunity of seeing Euatahuna to-morrow, and its people, the Tuhoe—see them as he sees Te Whaiti and the Ngatiwhare to-day. I will not touch upon any business in the meantime, because this day has been pretty well occupied by the Ngatimanawa and others, who addressed themselves to the Premier All I want to do is to discharge my duty and pay my respects on the present occasion to the Premier To-morrow my utterances will be in connection with business. At eight o'clock to-morrow I will speak. You are a stranger here, and according to our laws we welcome you as we are doing. Of course, to carry our lawe out in their entirety, we should have given you

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a loyal reception when the day favoured us, but it is night now, and night is more congenial to the movement of spirits. I welcome you both to these parts. You are the great monster we have heard of, and, like our monsters of old, you have ever been clothed in mystery You have never been here before, and now you have seen Te Whaiti and its people. Your knowledge of them hitherto has been only by hearsay But now you are here you can see and judge for yourselves. I should not wonder but that the place and its people will form the subject of criticism by you. Come in love and friendship ! You have dealt out love and kindness throughout the whole world. Under the rule that overshadowed us in the past it was darkness. We found the world dark, without love and friendship. The world is full of envy and hatred. It is you who can prevent the evils that beset the path of man. Do not forget your duty The Government which you represent brought the light of civilisation amongst us, by which I can now sleep peacefully with my wife. I need not be on the alert lest the enemy should come to destroy me. In the old days, when our ancestors ruled, we were perpetually on our guard, it was not safe for a man and his wife to live by themselves, you required to have a stronghold represented by numbers and force for protection. In the light of that power and civilisation which you both represent, and as you are here on this occasion, do justice to us, exercise your privilege, exercise the position that you hold, and extend the benefits of that power and civilisation to the uttermost parts of our territory and surroundings. I contend that you have been selfish, and have confined the benefits of civilisation to your own race , but you have found us out to-day, still in the same condition—as savages—as we were in under our ancestors and forefathers. It is on account of that great and boundless love which has sprung from the power represented by you that I hail with satisfaction your coming here. I shall cease. I have said enough. (Song of welcome.) Hiwawa Whataui said, —Although I met you, the Premier, at Galatea, I then met you socially and listened to your address at that place. Although I was pleased, Dhat is not sufficient. I am now on my own ground, and I pay my respects to you. Welcome, Tiini Kara ! Take the Premier over the four corners of the kaianga. Salutations to the Premier and all of you ! May you live long ! You have come among your people that is right. Come, see them, and hear them. The visit of a Premier to the Native districts and people was a thing unknown in the past. When Mr Cadman visited certain districts in New Zealand, in some of these districts he was the first Minister they had seen , but you and your colleague Mr Carroll have excelled that step, because you are the first Ministers to visit Te Whaiti. I can hardly find words adequate to convey to you my pleasure, and the gladness of my heart at the honour you have conferred upon us and this settlement by your visit. Come, 0 Premier! Come unto us who are weary and heavy-laden ! Come and lighten our burdens ! This is Te Whaiti, and it is the Ngatiwhare who are addressing you to-night. Our hearts have yearned over and over again for a sight of the Native Minister, for a sight of the Premier Come and witness our will lay them before you to-morrow Treat them kindly, treat them justly. It will rest with you to consider the several matters we shall lay before you. Discard that which is bad, reject that which is unreasonable but sift them, dissect them, and separate the good from the bad. I know you have travelled over many parts of this Island, and have seen many Native tribes who have placed their different projects before you. It is your duty to select those which are entitled to consideration and leave aside those which are not suitable for practical purposes. In my case I give, you notice that I will not analyse—l will leave that for you to do, but I will lay everything that is in my mind before you, and you can make the selection. To-morrow I will keep nothing back , I will lay everything at your feet. I would have you understand that the occasion of your visit to these parts is one which gives extreme joy to us the rising generation, who have had greater opportunities than the older people of witnessing the advancing works of the Europeans. We the younger members of the tribe congratulate ourselves that your visit should have taken place during our time. We may profit by what you will give to us in time. There is a generally progressive movement among the rising generation of the Native people throughout all the districts in New Zealand in the direction of grasping the benefits of civilisation. They are brought more into contact with the Europeans, and are observant of the strides the European works are making in the present age, and the spirit of emulation is strong in their breasts. There is no need on my part to waste words in offering you my respects. Many speakers have given you their congratulations, and it is no use my travelling over the same ground. When the time is limited to one subject alone, and that subject is an interchange of compliments between us, it necessarily follows that the tribe is confined to a margin for talk. So I will bring my remarks to a close. But before I sit down I will address you in song. It is an old practice to season speech with song. (Song of welcome.) The Premier Ngatiwhare, greetings ! greetings of the most friendly character. It has been left to the Ngatiwhare to give to my colleague and myself one of the kindliest welcomes we have received during our visit among the Native race. Though you are few in number", still, proportionately, your speeches this evening have been such as would reflect credit on the most intelligent and most learned among the pakehas. With no advantages, being simply children of nature, children residing in the forest, to speak as you have spoken, I, as a fellow-being, should be wanting in my duty to a noble race did I not express the very great pleasure I feel at the kind remarks that have been made , and when I heard my friend that met me at Galatea, when I heard his speech, I was very much impressed with it indeed. I felt that to some extent at Galatea I had done him an injustice, because I said time would not permit me to remain any longer there. But it is well, because when he came and spoke in his own home and among his own people, it lent greater weight, and it was much more pleasant to my ears than if I had heard him at Galatea, because at that time I was very anxious to get to my midday meal. But it seems that lam unfortunate, and doing an injustice to the older generation, because an injustice has been done to my aged friend here on my right. When I asked who he was Mr Carroll said it was the same old man who was at Galatea. He has suffered because he is so much like the other old man in the corner At the same time I know his words and those of his comrades at Te Whaiti were words of welcome and kindness to me. lam

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well repaid indeed for the fatigue of the journey from Galatea to Te "Whaiti, but there are people who do you an injustice because they say the journey is much more difficult than I found it. They tell others that it is a much greater distance to come. Hence the injustice to Ngatiwhare and Te Whaiti. Now I have the honour, as you have stated, of being the first Minister that has come to this place and to see the Ngatiwhare and to speak to them as I do now, face to face. But I hope and trust I may not be the last , and though I am the first, I will endeavour to deal with matters in such a way that others will come and see you and hear you with pleasure, as I have listened to you to-night. You are, so you have said to-night, children of the forest, to some extent in darkness, and you seek to have light thrown upon you. You seek for information which you hope will be for the benefit of the Ngatiwhare. If I can in any way lighten your darkness—if I can in any way ease the burdens you have to carry—rest assured I shall do so, and it will be a labour of love. lam here for the purpose of doing you good. lam seeing the Native race in all parts of the island, and before I commenced this trip —perhaps it was an inspiration—but whether it was or not, the sole object I had in view was to benefit the Native race. I have been fortunate in having the assistance of my colleague, Mr Carroll, who has satisfactorily performed his duty to you. I tell you honestly, speaking man to man, irrespective of colour, it was honestly my one desire to benefit the Native race that made me undertake this journey I would indeed be a bad man were Ito come, as I have come here amongst you, partaking of your hospitality sleeping, as I shall, under your roofs, did I intend any wrong to those who have treated me so well and so kindly No, if I cannot do you good, I will do you no harm. Neither will I permit others to harm you. But Ido feel confident that, after having met you as I am meeting you now, —after we have finished our business to-morrow, you will, as men having the interest of your wives and children and those whom you love most dearly in view, help me to arrange matters between us so that your position in this world will be improved. I speak plainly—l speak truthfully I know that, talking of the older generations of the Native race, and speaking as the old man has spoken to-night, in former days you were always in dread, and were never sure but that the enemy might come amongst you, and you had to live together for mutual protection. There is always an uncertainty as regards life and property, and the children you love so well. That uncertainty has now been removed that anxiety has gone, because you accept the protection of the Government, the law, and our Queen, who reigns over both races justly, fairly, and with love. lam her servant, and the chief adviser of her representative in New Zealand. The Governor, when I informed him of the journey I intended to undertake—when I told him the objects I had in view—wished me every success, and assured me he felt that, in doing what I proposed, I was doing it in the interest of both races, and that it would promote the welfare and prosperity of both. There are many great changes taking place. This is an age of progress. The circumstances are altering day by day. You in your isolation are prevented from knowing what is going on in the outside world. You have no opportunity of reading. There is no literature that can find its way amongst you. For you there is no possibility of visiting the large centres of population, and if you were to go there you would find yourselves strangers, and would scarcely recognise the surroundings. It is almost impossible that the older men could, do this, but the younger generation probably have had an opportunity of seeing the larger centres , and when these younger men and women have this opportunity, and see the comforts, and the great strides that have been made, and see the surroundings of the pakeha, and even those of their own race, they will come back to Te Whaiti amazed with the scene. They would like to improve their position and the position of those they love, but all is darkness, they do not see how it is to be done or by what means, and their perplexity makes sadness come over them. They would like to better their position, and the surroundings of those they love, but they do not see how it can be done. Seeing that they are in doubt, seeing that all must be to some extent in doubt, if my coming here will help to remove that doubt, and show you how a brighter and happier future can be obtained, I say I shall be happy, and will try to remove that doubt with pleasure. Nothing would give me greater pleasure, while a Minister of the Crown, than to know that I had done something to promote the wellbeing of those who are here. Ministers go to the large centres, go to meetings where pakehas assemble by the thousand, and explain to them the position of the country, and what it is in the interest of the country to do by legislation and administration. The pakehas have their papers—two or three each day, they have a morning paper, an afternoon paper—perhaps two or three in one town. Each can read what is going on in the outside world. Notwithstanding this advantage, Ministers consider it advisable to see them and speak to them as lam speaking to you to-night. To be just, to be fair, how much more necessary is it that Ministers should meet the people who are isolated from the world, as you are here, to explain to them what is going on, and what concerns them. This in the past has not been done, and the fault lies with the Government, and I myself will take some share of the blame. Still, it is not too late. For the future we ought, so far as we can, to meet the Natives face to face, so that they can open their minds to us, and we can tell them what is best to be done in their interest. Since I have been round I can see that you are misjudged, and thereby wronged. The pakehas take up the position and say the Natives at the present time are doing a wrong to themselves, and a wrong to the country, and they throw the blame upon the Native race. But the fault lies with those who have never taken the trouble to ascertain directly from the Natives themselves what it is they want, and what would be best to do under those altered circumstances. The Native race does not know what to do. They are in doubt. They say, "We are in the dark , we are willing to do whatis right. Show us the right thing to do, and we will help you. We do not want to injure the pakehas. What we want to do is to conserve our rights. We are the descendants of a noble people, and do not want to injure the pakeha. We do not want this, for we are afraid we will destroy our race. We only want to conserve our race, and that is why we are in the position we are in to-day " Still, as you have said here to me to-night, " Show us the way 11— G. 1.

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we should go , if you are here for good, you are doubly welcome , but let us know—give us the information we seek. You have knowledge, impart that knowledge to us. We are good people, teach us what is right so that we may do good to ourselves and our children." Since I have been through the country every one I have met has expressed the greatest pleasure at meeting me, and they gave my colleague and myself heartfelt thanks for coming amongst them to reason with them and show them what could bo done to improve their position. As I have said before, if any of the pakehas had the land which belongs to you, they would be living in comfort on it, and would be a well-to-do, prosperous people. It is this doubt, this great uncertainty, the fact that you really do not know what a valuable possession you have got, that keeps you in the position you are now in. There are others who claim your lands, and there is no one to decide to whom they especially belong. In days gone by when any dispute arose you had a way of settling it which did not increase the numbers of the Native race. You took means of settling these matters in a way of your own, but that is done away with. You still live in a state of uncertainty You are wealthy and do not know it, and it is this uncertainty that is destroying you. Now, the Government and myself—speaking to you as a friend—tell you that we are desirous of removing that uncertainty We wish to give you that which belongs to you, and with it you shall do as you like. We will protect and maintain you in that position, and the day that uncertainty is removed, the day the Ngatiwhare know absolutely what belongs to them, that day will be as the dawn of prosperity upon the tribe. Your forefathers, looking a long distance ahead, looking into the future, considered that the time would arrive when this should be done. By the Treaty of Waitangi they laid it down that the Government was to do this for you, and the Government was to be your protector They also foresaw that if their children were to be brought up in ignorance it would prove their curse. To prevent this ignorance obtaining, they stipulated that education should be given to the Native race. Ngatiwhare, you are rich. Are your children being brought up so that they can read and write ? Can they write to their parents and tell them what is going on in the outside world, or are they going on in darkness so as not to be able to hold their own for want of education ? Does the Ngatiwhare desire to remain with darkness overshadowing it, or do you want to receive the enlightenment of education which the Government is only too pleased to give to you ? Does the Ngatiwhare desire still to remain isolated, with no means of communication with the outside world, or would it prefer to have roads so that the people may visit other places, and enjoy the benefits of what is going on throughout the colony? I speak to you as a parent would speak to his children, advising that which is in the interest of those that he loves. You must advance with the times, if you do not do so, and prepare for the day that is coming, disaster will overtake the Ngatiwhare. The pakeha, in order that his children can keep pace with the times, and that disaster may not overtake them, are spending in education for the children of this colony over £300,000 a year. Now, how is it possible for your offspring to compete fairly with people who are receiving the benefits of education and civilisation ? You cannot have these benefits if education is not given to your children. By keeping your children in ignorance you are absolutely making them slaves —you are leading them into slavery A parent who loves his children would not do this wilfully The Native people love their children. You are not leading them into slavery wilfully, you are doing it in ignorance. If you had the means of communication to-morrow , if you were to grow maize and , oats more than sufficient for your requirements , if you were to raise sheep or cattle, you have not children amongst you who could tell, when you sent your produce to market, and received the money for it, whether you had been treated honestly or not. Your children should be able to make out your accounts and see whether you are being dealt with fairly or not. If we were to send amongst you to-morroW books or papers to be read, which would show you what was going on in the outside world, how many are there of you who could read them, and get the united opinion of the Press of the colony ? How pleasant it would be if the children were to sit and read to their parents and enlighten them where ignorance now reigns supreme. How pleasant it would be for the aged, your grandfathers and grandmothers, how pleasant it would be for them to have read to them, through the lips of their grandchildren, that the dreams of their early years were being realised, and the race was improving. But it is impossible as things are. They live in darkness and pass away without the light of true civilisation being communicated to them. You seek honestly, I know, to improve your condition, and even to-night, while we are amongst you, the greatest desire on your part would have been to have entertained us in a much more fitting condition than you have, but you have entertained us in the best way at your command. It is not that we have not been well received, on the contrary, we have had a kind and friendly reception, and have been well treated, but what I mean to say is, that your desire would have been to have received us in a different manner, but it is this uncertainty that prevents you. lam here to direct and advise you as to how you can improve your position. What is more than that, lamin a position to protect you against those who would do you wrong. What has fallen from your lips is now recorded, it is a matter of history It will go forth to the world , it will go to the Queen. It will show to the outside world that you are not a people taking up a negative position, keeping back the colony, or injuring the pakehas. You want that doubt removed so that both races may prosper. The position that my friend and colleague, Mr Carroll, and myself are placed in is, that there is an almost overwhelming pressure being brought to bear upon the Government. Some advocate extreme measures being taken towards the Native race, because, they say, you are taking up a negative position, and will not allow the Government to do anything for you. This pressure is becoming so great that I determined to see for myself, and place matters fairly before the world. (Laughter ) Well, it is no laughing matter. Do not treat -it lightly My words of warning should, not be treated lightly Treat them lightly, and do not give them consideration, and trouble must eventually overtake you. You are not aware, perhaps, that there are now in this colony six hundred thousand pakehas, while there are only forty thousand left of the Native race. The Native race is decreasing and the pakehas

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are increasing so rapidly that I have warned you of the dangers that beset you. Last year, I think, we had an increase of twenty thousand people. To-night you have wisely said that you will go into business to-morrow I will then make matters plain to you, and, while I am doing so, you must open your minds to me, and keep nothing back. Though you may hurt my feelings, still, keep nothing back, let me know what is troubling you, what the mist is that enshrouds your minds, because it is only by dealing fairly, straightforwardly, and plainly that good can result. Your words to-night, so far, have conveyed a kind greeting. You have followed what has always been the custom of your race, to treat the stranger who comes into your midst with hospitality I know that you are sincere in all you have said, and that you wish my colleague and myself well. Your words were pleasing, and the songs of welcome I shall ever remember with the greatest pleasure. lam a lover of song and music, and it is pleasing to me that in that respect you possess the accomplishment. In your so possessing it, it reflects great credit upon you. All the nations of the earth enjoy the pleasure of song and music; hence, when I heard your songs to-night I felt pleased -indeed. I will conclude my words to-night by offering to one and all a kind and friendly greeting. Salutations ! (Applause.) The Moening Meeting at Te Whaiti. On resuming at 8 a.m. on the following morning, Tuhi Tuhi said, —These are the subjects we wish to place before the Premier (1.) A school to be established at Te Whaiti. We do not wish our children to remain in ignorance any longer This is a matter for the delegates to settle when they get to Wellington. We agree to give three acres of land as a site for the school. That we can settle to-day (2.) The survey of Te Whaiti. This is a matter the people think they should consider, and then submit their decision to you in Wellington. These are all the subjects I have to put forward. Others will probably bring other subjects before you. I have to inform you that the old man of the Ngatiwhare has only just now arrived. The Premier : It is very pleasing indeed to me to hear the words which have fallen from the lips of my friend who has just sat down, more especially as regards the school. I look upon the opening of a school here as the means of elevating the Ngatiwhare, and placing them in a superior position. To be educated is to be strong in" mind and body I shall feel when once the school has been established that my visit to the Ngatiwhare has been a blessing to them, and that the children will bless their parents for the decision they have arrived at to have a school. As regards a definite decision upon the matter, I understand that, and will mention to the Minister of Education with pleasure the offer of the three acres of land for the school site. I can, with some degree of reflection upon the pakehas, say that when the Natives agree to have a school, they are generous and devote land for the purpose. The pakehas have never yet —though they have had the benefits of education—shown the bright example that has been set them 'by the Native race. There is another advantage : When the school is established here, if you get a good teacher, and he has a good wife, they will probably understand something about medicine, and when sickness overtakes you may be able to give you some relief. lam of the opinion that all teachers sent into Native districts should be married men, and should have a knowledge of medicine so that they might be able to alleviate the sufferings of those by whom they are surrounded. Qn behalf of the Government I will see that they are supplied with medicines so that they can help 1 you. Not only that, but when there are matters of public importance transpiring in other parts of the world they will be in a position to let the Natives know, by telling the children, who can then tell their parents. You would have amongst you a superior man, who would be able to educate the children and assist the adults, besides acting as Postmaster, &c. You could then get letters through to Te Whaiti. All these advantages will come to you with the education of your children. I told you last night that when we came to talk business I should let you know what was reallyin your interest, and I have only pointed out as yet one or two benefits that would accrue to.you if you let civilisation come to Te Whaiti. As regards the survey, you have told me you are considering that amongst yourselves, and will let me know later on in Wellington. I told the Tuhoe that, at any time they found themselves in trouble, and had matters that they desired to lay before the Government, the Government could not always go to see the Tuhoe and Ngatiwhare, but they could come to Wellington, and that we should be pleased at any time to meet them. I was your guest last night. When you come to Wellington you shall be the guests of the Government. I know it is the want of means that keeps you isolated and prevents you seeing the Government. You have been blamed for this, because it is said, " Oh, they do not come to see the Government , they stop in their own country isolated, and they remain there " , and the people have blamed you because they have not thought of your necessities. They never think how they would act if they were in your place. Now I have seen what I have, I can understand it. It must not occur again. Now that the two races are brought together, there must be a bond of union so that it never can be again torn asunder I must ask you to put everything shortly, as we want to be on the road again. Tuhi said, —If we decide on the survey, sd. an acre is too heavy a charge.. The Premier : I quite agree with you. There are two things the Government should do. The Government should make the surveys and send out respectable and good men who will act friendly towards the Natives and make the surveys at the lowest possible cost. All the Government want is to see the Natives get their titles properly ascertained. We do not want to see the land eaten up by expenses. It has been so, I admit, in the past, but wo must try for the future to stop expense as much as we can, so as to have the land for the Natives. Eewi said, —Although Mr. Carroll belongs to us, I must address myself to the Premier We recognise the two as standing between the Europeans and the Natives, and that is a matter for congratulation. Furthermore, we ought to be extremely pleased at what has happened. I thought that I should load myself with my subjects and trouble and lay them before you, but you have

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come to me and asked me to state them myself. The main subject for which I wish your presence here is the school, so that our children may be enlightened. I want the light of education and civilisation to pierce the darkness which has enveloped us for so long, and although this subject of the school has been mentioned by the first speaker, it is a matter of such importance that I hope you will excuse my mentioning it again. I have heard your reply and am much pleased therewith. My second subject is the survey of the road. Although brought before you by the Ngatimaniwha, it will bear repeating. The road from Ohinemutu to Galatea is opened, but now we want the connection between Galatea and Te Whaiti completed. You saw evidence yourself yesterday in coming along that it is not a road fit for carting produce to these parts. You saw the wagon with a tent over it. I want this road completed and widened as soon as possible. I now leave the matter in your hands , it will be for you to decide whether it is to be done soon or to be delayed. As far as lam concerned, I should like it done to-morrow if it were possible. Send me word when you get to Wellington. Do not let this work stand over till June or July As you touched upon the advantages of communication and other questions, I may say that you must first establish the school, and everything will evolve from that. Where a set of subjects are not identical with each other, then I would make a special demand, and that demand is for the mail. Now, about the survey that is placed in my hands. I hold it, Ido not want any one else, either Maori or European, to interfere with what concerns me only Ido not want to treat with outsiders respecting the question of my land. Now you have come here I announce to you my decision in the matter lam going to get the survey carried out. Other people have spoken to you about surveys and their own respective matters, but the Ngatiwhare are speaking to you now on their own platform I myself went in person to Auckland to arrange about a survey of Te Whaiti, and to see the Government about it, but the Government put so many obstacles in my way and loaded the survey so heavily with expenses that nothing came of it. I have nothing to say about Tuhoe's matters they can look after their own affairs, I confine myself to my own business, and this is what I want done with my affairs. lam the Ngatiwhare. This is another matter I have never received anything at all from the Europeans, but what I now ask for is a flag. I want you to give us one. Wharepakau is to be the name of the flag, which is the origin of the Ngatiwhare. Another request I have to make to you is this I would like the' Government to give us a section of land at Ohinemutu. We are constantly going there, that is our chief port, as it were. We suffer very much in going on our journey to Ohinemutu on account of having no place to stay at when we get there. Other tribes who visit Ohinemutu have their relations living there with whom they can stay They belong to a separate tribe altogether from ours, they are not relatives of ours. You really must give effect to this application. The Premier To save time I may say that the request is already granted. There shall be some land at Ohinemutu set aside for the Ngatiwhare. Eewi, continuing I would like a section opposite the boiling springs, so as to obviate the necessity for a fire to cook our food. There are many other subjects, but the school will settle them, all will follow in due course. Hiwawa Whatanui said, —All subjects have been mentioned, but I will just run over them. First of all the school that has been replied to. I may tell you we have not been asleep. We have already made an application to the Minister of Education about a school, and he has replied to us in the affirmative. I have got the letter from him dated 3rd of March, 1894. You will see the Ngatiwhare has already been in communication on this matter Now, what 1 want to say is, we are holding this question of a school tightly in our hands, and when you get to Wellington I will communicate with you, and the whole question can be settled there. The particulars as to site and everything can then be arranged absolutely I also have the survey question under action, and I wish to keep that also in my hand and fix it up absolutely with you in Wellington. It is too big a matter to arrange by letter The same will apply to the question of the road. All these matters we can arrange without shifting about between this and that place. Any communications you have in respect to these matters I wish addressed to me. My address is Hiwawa Whatanui, Te Whaiti, Fort Galatea, via Eotorua, Auckland. Eaharuhi said, —I indorse the remarks of the previous speakers. The mana of the Queen is already at Te Whaiti. Get a road there and the survey carried out. It is well to have the titles to these lands ascertained. It is for our benefit especially In the old days our education was confined to teaching the young the use of firearms. Their physical development was attended to , that was the chief feature in our old school, but now we must educate the mind. The mind is the power of the present age. Paraone Meihana said, —It was only last evening that myself and the old man arrived from Napier, and we have not had an opportunity of giving you welcome, and, as we are anxious to do so, I say, Salutations to you all! Welcome! I indorse all the remarks of the previous speakers in respect to the school and the survey In these matters treat with the Ngatiwhare. So far as this place is concerned, I do not want you to start a school or survey to-day, but when you get to Wellington you will probably see some of us there, and we can arrange everything. The chief Hamiora Potakurua said, —Salutations to both of you ! I welcome you in the name of our Blessed Saviour, whose religion it was to love and diffuse that love throughout all mankind. Let us here to-day emulate the example of that Great Teacher and the love of that Great Master With respect to the different subjects which have been submitted to you, there.is nothing to say beyond supporting what has already fallen from the lips of the younger people. The survey,-the school, and other matters have already been mentioned by them. I desire all these wishes of theirs fulfilled before I pass away to my forefathers. You can see lam an old man, and have not much longer to live. Let me see these things come to pass before Igo hence to be no more seen. Let them take place while lam alive, 0 Premier ! The principal subjects which have been laid before you —the road, the survey, and the school—these sum up the whole of the business affecting this

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tribe. These are the subjects which gladden my heart. I say again, lam alive at the present moment, let these things be done in my time. That is all. The Premier lam deeply gratified to find the elder chief of the tribe here this morning. It must be pleasing to the Ngatiwhare that he has arrived before I left, and that I have seen him in person and in the presence of all. I will now shake hands with this old and respected chief, and in person welcome his presence here to-day I rejoice at having had an opportunity of shaking hands with him before he passes away This is the position the Government, my colleague, and. myself take up. We say that as every day and every week of time that passes without your having your titles defined, there is great danger We must see that this is done—that justice is done to you before you are gathered to your forefathers. You are the connecting link with the past, you represent the past generations. With regard to the younger men, if this link is severedevil will befall them, misfortune will befall the younger generations. Others will reap where they have not sown , others will get in error that which belongs to the Ngatiwhare. I therefore, so far as the Government is concerned, wish to have that which belongs to you clearly denned and satisfactorily settled. I think your voices have a right to be heard and your wishes complied with, more especially as regards the survey of Te Whaiti. When I see you in Wellington I shall then have seen the people right through the district and can come to a conclusion. You know my views in the matter I wish to be fair and do what is just to all concerned. I will therefore finish my journey before I give a final decision. I do, as a friend, as one wishing the Ngatiwhare and the whole of the tribes well, advise them, before it is too late, to have the titles to the land ascertained, so that they can know what belongs to them and what will go down to their children. I will now leave the question of survey, and go to that of a road between here and Galatea. I may tell you in that respect that after hearing your wishes in the matter I am favourably disposed, and if I can arrange for it to be gone on with I will do so even before next June. Wherever a road is made, progress and prosperity follow it. Whilst the schools educate the mind through the schoolmaster, the road also educates because it gives the older people an opportunity to meet their friends, and they get the news of the outer world. Without those roads their visits would be very few and far between. Nothing would give me greater pleasure than for the old man to live to see you able to drive in a buggy from here to Galatea. I notice he is getting frail, and riding on horseback would be exhausting, but he could drive in a nice buggy along a good road. If there was a good road between here and Whakatane, and between here and Ohinemutu, the visits of Ministers would be more frequent than they have been in the past. And now we come to the request of the Ngatiwhare, that they may have a flag given to them to commemorate this visit, and thereby to know that you have the same protection afforded you as the other parts of the Queen's dominions have, because the sun never sets on her possessions. If you want that flag and that protection you shall have it. I have already told you that, as regards setting apart a piece of land for the Ngatiwhare at Ohinemutu, it shall be done;. You shall have that land. If you had a piece of land there upon which you could camp it would be of benefit, and I will see that you have it. I think I have nowspoken upon all the subjects. lam glad to see that letter you have received from the Education Department. If you have no map to mark the principal piece of land I will get the Chief Surveyor to send you one, so that all these particulars can be fixed, and the three acres marked off which you wish to give, and then we can get the matter completed 'without delay As to the investigation of the titles to the Whirinaki and Herewera blocks, the Government have no power over the law. When once a decision is arrived at, the Government have no power over rehearings, and cannot interfere, unless there has been absolute fraud. The Supreme Court is the only tribunal that can interfere. But it would be well if you were to reduce to writing the matters complained of, and send the particulars down to me, so that I may make inquiries as to how the affair stands. I will now conclude by expressing to you the very great pleasure I have experienced on this my visit to the Ngatiwhare. I must also express my thanks to Hiwavva Whatanui and his wife, who, on behalf of their grandfather, have done the honours of the house, and have so much contributed to our comfort while here. They have entertained us, and we thank them for their attention. I hope the Ngatiwhare will rest satisfied that they have nothing to regret. We have been well entertained and received here, and shall remember our visit amongst you with very great pleasure indeed. Salutations and a kind farewell to the Ngatiwhare, and may you prosper ! The party then proceeded on their journey to Tβ Mimi, hoping to reach there before nightfall, but, having made such a long stay at Te Whaiti, they had to camp in the bush. The next morning a start was made, and Te Mimi was reached by noon. From here the Premier proceeded to EuATAHDNA, a distance of seven miles. Here another meeting was held. Teihana was the first speaker He said, —This is our great house Matatua. It is not much of a place for visitors, but come, welcome the Premier ! Hautaruke said, —Welcome to Euatahuna ! Come and see these people. Welcome, Mr Carroll, with the Premier ! Come in love , we greet you. It is well. Go where you like over this country See the country and its people if you wish. We expected you to come to see us. We are on the move ourselves. We are going down to the Court. We are glad to comply with the European laws. Te Whare Kohia said, —Welcome, Mr Carroll, to Euatahuna ! I have only heard of you, Mr. Carroll, as the one returned to represent us. I now see you in person come to Euatahuna. All our chiefs are gone, there are very few here now to welcome you. This is, no doubt, a historic place in the European mind. It is not much of a place when once you have seen it. Come, if you are so inclined, to kill the people on the land. If you have come to show us light, well and good.

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[Song of welcome.] If it is for our good that you leave our side and are standing for the Europeans, I trust it will turn out all right. I hope you and the head of the Government will not forget our race. I am glad you have brought him here to see us. I cannot see into the future I do not know what is in store for us. If you cannot do anything else for us, let us have your love. Eemember what the Great Master said " Love thy neighbour as thyself. No matter how we decide among ourselves, it will always be pleasing and to our mutual benefit to remember that great teaching. Welcome the Premier! Welcome to Buatahuna ! Welcome to this place ! It was anxiously considered by Sir Donald McLean when he was in power His old friends the chiefs are gone. He had always a care for us and endeavoured to save us from getting into trouble. We have never been attended to since his old friend Paerau passed away Only the young children are left. Come, let us see—be it for good or be it for evil; but Ido not think there is evil in you. There never was evil in you; it was my own fault, it was our own fault. We are more to blame for the ills that have befallen us than we can ever credit the Government with. [Song of welcome.] Welcome, great man of the colony ! It was always said that the Government were careful of the interests of all Natives, both small and great. Come and bring with you the good tidings ! Do not be like those of the past, unapproachable by us. If you had returned to your home without seeing us we might have had reason to think you were like the others, but, having taken the trouble to come through this country, we feel very much pleased to see you. There are other lands you will travel over This is hardly a fit country for a man like the head of the Government to travel over Welcome ! Mita Haaka said, —Welcome hero to Euatahuna, Mr Carroll, bringing with you your illustrious companion ! Welcome to you both ! You represent the word of the old chiefs who are gone. When they were alive you were the selected one to represent us. This, now, is the first time we have seen you in person. You can explain to us the object of your visit. Now that you are a different man you have come to see us. We may not agree on many things worldly, but, notwithstanding all our differences, our mutual love is strong, and if that exists between us it will cover a multitude of sins. We have no business to discuss with you. We are only glad to see and welcome you. If, on the other hand, you have anything to say we will hear you. Welcome the pakehas, welcome to Euatahuna, if you wish to see it ! This house is Matatua, it represents the prestige of the place. Had you given us due notice, we would have been able to arrange a programme to discuss. Suffice it to say we see one another We know you are going on your way to Waikaremoana and Wairoa, and you turned aside from the track to visit this people, but that need not hinder you. If you have anything in your breast express it to us, teach us. (Song of welcome.) We sing and welcome you, 0 great man of this Island of Aotearoa. If you do not succeed in seeing this outright, come again. Te Pukeiotu said, —Salutations to you, Mr Carroll! We were the first of the Island to return you at the last election to administer the affairs of the Maori people. Although this is your first visit, we know you by name —by connection—and the time when you changed to go through a European constituency to be returned is coincident with your visit here. This is Euatahuna, and the two great chiefs of this country, Paerau and Te Whenuanui, in the days that are past and in the days of the voice of Sir Donald McLean, arranged that this territory should be kept inviolate, and that they should reign supreme in this part, and that Was given effect to by Sir Donald McLean. Mr Locke was District Commissioner, and when he came here he represented the Government. These chiefs arranged that all Government matters should he excluded from this boundary—namely, roads, leases, wrongful sales, mortgages, and everything that is vile. There was then a protectorate over this place, to protect these people against the advances of the Europeans. I now address the Premier Welcome in the name of the Government! Welcome as the representative of the Government! Welcome to Euatahuna! Look at the land, inspect the people ! These are some of the people. There are some at Euatoki. You saw some at Te Houhi. They are spread all over this country lam very pleased indeed that you have come here—that you, 0 Premier have come to see this place and to see us. No other tribes have ventured into these parts because the Tuhoe are living all round the borders thereof. The Premier Friendly greetings to all the Tuhoe here at Euatahuna. You have given me a cordial welcome —a welcome in words and a welcome in song. My heart rejoices to meet you and to hear your welcome. You asked the question, Had I come here for your good, or had I come for evil. My reply is,—and I speak for the pakehas of the country,—l come here for your good. Would the relatives of Kereru, your relations at Euatoki, your friends, the grandson of the chief of the Ngatiwhare—would they bring through this country a man that would do you evil ? I spoke to your friends at Euatoki. I had their welcome and assurance of friendship and their desire that all should live in love and peace together You said truly that Tuhoe lives at Euatoki. They are also here, at Te Mimi and at the lake, and I desire to see them all, and that; is why I am here amongst you to-day Now that we have met face to face, let all the troubles that have hitherto existed be removed. You have reminded me of my old friend, Sir Donald McLean, who has been gathered to his forefathers. You have told me of the chiefs who were associated with him, your illustrious relatives —that they have also been gathered to the bosom of their forefathers. Well, let us say now that, as Sir Donald McLean was the friend of your forefathers, so I have come here to-day to tell you that lam prepared, and it is my desire, to be the friend of the present generation. The friendship that was cemented between your forefathers and Sir Donald McLean by his having been amongst you and having seen the people of that day, so let it be a new friendsip and love between us and those who are here to-day of the Tuhoe. I speak for those over whom lam placed to govern, for Her Most Gracious Majesty the Queen, who governs over all, for the Governor who represents her I say it is their desire also that the Tuhoe should increase in numbers and live in prosperity You leaders of the tribe, you know better than I can tell you that you are not prospering, and that your people—those whom you love—are passing away—not passing away after

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living to a good old age, but passing away before their proper time. That, I say should be stopped. Those of you that are left should endeavour to keep alive and acquire prosperity for all who are near and dear to you. Now that lam here to-day, let us confer together Open your minds , speak to me as chiefs on behalf of your people. I shall then speak to you on behalf of both races, because I am the rangatira of both—not only the rangatira of the pakeha. You have told me to-day that I have not given you proper notice. I can only express my regret, and at the same time I desire to explain to you that it was impossible for me to say when I could arrive. But I am here, the day is young, there is time yet for you to confer. You have given me your friendly greetings, you have opened your mind slightly, but there is time yet for you to see to the matters you desire to bring before the Government. You have not the excuse now to say that the Government have never been with you, for the Government is now face to face with you. You mentioned that you had here the house Matatua. It reminded me of the canoe Matatua. It recalls the days when those chiefs first came to this land. They were men who spoke their minds. They were far-seeing men, and founded a great race. Your friends at Euatoki told me that in the past—and you have repeated it here to-day—the troubles that have arisen were brought about by the Maoris themselves, and they did not altogether blame the Government. They also at Euatoki passed their word to me that in the future they would work with the Government, recognising that the Government would treat them fairly, and because they saw evil coming if they did not do so. They also told me that, when other tribes had a difference with the Government, and the Tuhoe had gone to assist them, the tribe had suffered because they had assisted their brethren who were in trouble. They also told me that they had been reduced in numbers and impoverished thereby, that their trouble had not commenced so much amongst themselves as by assisting others , but that from that time forward—from the time when they were speaking to me—they gave me an assurance, which I shall convey to the representative of Her Majesty the Queen, that, no matter what trouble there is with others, there will not be any further trouble so far as the Tuhoe is concerned. To hear these words of wisdom, to hear a decision of that kind, which is in the interest of the Tuhoe and both races, more than repaid me for the fatigue and great trouble I have taken incoming to see them and speak to them face to face. My colleague can tell you that great changes are taking place, that the pakehas are increasing in numbers very rapidly , that there are now over six hundred thousand of them in this country, and that last year their number was increased by twenty thousand. Now, the Government has to control, guide, protect, and assist both races. They do not govern the pakehas only Now that I am here it is for you to open your minds and to assist me, so that I may do justice to you and prevent evil befalling you. Now, Ido think—and I speak from my heart when I say it— that you have, so far, been misjudged, that the position taken up by you has not been understood. You could not go to see the Government, and the Government have not been to see you but that reproach has now been taken away, because the Government is here, in the person of myself, speaking to you. On my return to the great city, and when the Parliament meets, I shall be able to tell them that I have met you, spoken to you, and found you quite different to what you have been represented by others to the world. You have been represented as a people who did not want to see the Government. It has been stated that you defied them, and would not allow them to come near you. Now I can say that the Government'have been here, and have been welcomed; and that you have told the Government to go over all the land of the Tuhoe and see all the people. The reproach I have mentioned shall be taken from you, because I shall very plainly tell your traducers that their statement is absolutely incorrect, for I have met with nothing but goodwill in the welcomes that have been given me, in your words, in your songs, and in your deeds since I have been in the land of the Tuhoe. lam the first Prime Minister that has come here to meet you for very many years. In fact, I think lam the first Prime Minister who ever came here , and I think, from my experience in travelling over them, that if there are no better roads made I shall probably be the last. Ido not wonder that your visits to one another are few and far between, for there is a great risk when you go to see your friends among the mountains that you will never come back. But, notwithstanding the great fatigue, notwithstanding the difficulties in the way, your welcome this morning has more than compensated me for coming to see you. I am still, lam pleased to say, very substantial; and, after having put up with the fatigues on the road, I can put up with any fatigue in having to listen to your wants and requirements. If you are pouri, tell me what causes it. If there is mystery and darkness in your minds and mist in your eyes, let me clear that mist away that your hearts may be glad. It is for the purpose of hearing from you what is in your minds that lam here. I tell you plainly you are not prosperous. lam not blind , and you are not as prosperous as I would desire to make you. I see a number of children and young people here, and I see no education going on. Without giving these children education, their parents are condemning them to slavery. As the world is progressing, and with the changes that are taking place, education is now a necessity The real gladness that comes with civilisation comes with education. As compared with others of the Native race who have seen that their children received an education, you will find they have been better able to look after the land than where they have been kept in darkness as to education. At Euatoki the Tuhoe have asked the Government to establish a school, so that this reproach may be taken from them and that their children may be able to compete with the world, as they will have the advantages of education. At Te Whaiti the Ngatiwhare have asked, and have given land, for a school, and have asked that tho darkness may be taken from them. Your forefathers, by the Treaty of Waitangi —and if that treaty had been kept faithfully by both sides these troubles could never have occurred—l say they saw by that treaty the great necessity for education, for they stipulated that their children should be educated, and I say that those parents who have not seen fit to give their children the benefits of education have not been good parents to them or done their duty by them. Our Great Master has laid it down that we must not simply eat, drink, and pass away, but that we should leave something behind us to im*

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prove the condition of those who follow us. I will speak your mind, I will speak for you now—and the Tuhoe parents here to-day who listen to my -words know I am speaking the words of truth and am giving them good advice as a friend. I know that the minds of the fathers and mothers here are dark, because they tremble for the future of their children and do not see their way clear I say that doubt is causing the chief trouble amongst you. If I can remove that darkness and doubt, my visit here will have been a very great pleasure indeed. And the matter which is causing uneasiness in your minds is in regard to your lands. The old men of the tribe are passing away They are the connecting links with the past and if you do not ascertain what belongs to you, if you do not put this right before they pass away you are doing a wrong to your children. Owing to the want of this evidence, those who have never sown will reap; those who are not entitled to them will probably be put in possession of your lands. The great changes that are taking place make it almost imperative that the titles to all lands in the colony should be ascertained, so that Natives who own land should be put in possession of their own land, and may have the protection of the Queen. Your forefathers stipulated that the Queen was to give them her protection. She can only protect you by giving you a title and by placing you in possession of the land. Those who say, " We do not want the protection of the Queen," are practically committing suicide, because the land is life. Others take advantage of this and say, " Oh, they have no title , if they have a right to the land why do not they say so?" The very fact of taking up a negative position is prejudicing the Tuhoe. I speak for the Government when I say we promise you our protection to confirm you in the possession of your lands. We do not want to take your land from you. We want to give you a title in fee-simple which can'be defended before the world. You said here in your address of welcome that you would like to hear what my business was, and why I came to see you. My visit to you is one of friendship, one of inquiry ; and one on which I desire to meet you face to face and see your condition, so that I can speak with truth and authority as to what I have seen. If Ido not bring you good, rest assured, my good people of Tuhoe, evil will not come from my visit. Therefore, while I tell you lam pleased at your address and song of welcome, at the same time let me also now ask you to think over what I have said. The day is still young ,I am prepared to stay a little longei* so that you can confer amongst yourselves. If you have anything to say, say it before I leave. That is my advice to you, and I give it as a friend. Even if you say things that are unpleasant to me I care not, though we may disagree, I do not care. Open your minds to me and speak freely When men once speak their minds the mist disappears. lam a good listener You will be speaking to a friend. I thank you for the welcome you have given me. Te Pukeiotu said, —As regards the reproaches cast upon the Tuhoe, I really do not know what wrong they have done. Of course in the old days there used to be a lot of evil about land, but it was amongst themselves. In the old days of Whaene and Kahungunu, there was very little love existing between them. They had a row, and one hit the other over the head with a fish. There was bad feeling in consequence. This enmity was kept up for many generations, and trouble constantly came over the land. There was a King movement, and we joined in it. We were not alone, as nearly every tribe joined in it. After that most of the tribes of the Island returned to the Government with the exception of myself—that is, the Tuhoe. When Te Kooti landed with his force in New Zealand war broke out again. I joined Te Kooti. It was only in the year 1871 that I made peace with the Government. That was the year that Paerau went via Wairoa to Napier to make peace and swear allegiance to the Queen and the Government. That was when Sir Donald McLean was alive. When they came back from there, they called a meeting at Euatahuna and laid down the ring boundary—the territorial boundary—and decided it should remain intact. Some of the chiefs were those you saw at Buatoki, and you will understand that whatever Tuhoe settled with you at Euatoki is binding on us. We will never go back and stir up muddy water again. The law will be our defender and we will look up to it. We consider the subjects agreed upon at Euatoki are binding on us. Another thing I would mention You are the first Premier to come here, do not be the last. Now you have established a precedent, let others come. Te Whare Kotua said, —The Government officers never represent us to the Government in our true light, neither do the Government do rightly to us, otherwise who is responsible for the absence of the law from us ? Why have we been kept so long out of advice ? Why have we been allowed to remain in our isolated position'? lam glad this day to hear words of wisdom direct from the head of the Government. There is no means of communication between ourselves and the outside world, In the old military days there used to be orderlies, and we used to receive communications from the outer world. You say they asked for a school at Euatoki so will we ; though we will not stand out against anything they say I would like you to know that throughout the length and breadth of Tuhoe all these things are agreed upon , and I believe, myself, it would be the best thing for both races if they all joined together They need have no apprehension, all those subjects discussed at Euatoki in regard to settlement will not be opposed by us, but are indorsed. What we feel apprehensive about is that your servants will not carry out your words. You advise us and speak words of wisdom, but you go away and we lose sight of you. The question is Will those who have to carry out your instructions do so strictly in accordance therewith ? They might do otherwise. I would like the surveys held in abeyance in the meantime. We want our territorial boundary defined. We want the Government to let a committee of Tuhoe be established to carry out our affairs. We would not then need the Government to carry out our affairs within this boundary If you like to answer these subjects now you can do so, but if you like them to remain over until you reach Wellington that will suit us equally well. We do not want other people to prosecute the survey, and cut up our land while we are trying to arrange with the Government. We want a proper understanding to be arrived at. We want our boundary confirmedj and our titles to the land indorsed, without a survey if possible. We want the Government to give legal effect to the: establishment of a committee, who will manage our affairs in connection with our land,

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The Premier I have listened with pleasure to the speakers who have informed me on the several matters that have been dealt with, and it is satisfactory to know that the people here are in accord with what was said and done at Euatoki. Whilst they have asked for a school at Euatoki, that would not apply to this place, because it is too far to go there from here. How many children are there here of school age ? The Meeting One school will do if established on the borders. The Premier The next question is, You desire to have the boundaries defined, but, in the meantime, you want the survey of some portions held over until your delegates have been to Wellington. At other places where I have been they desired that what belongs to them should be given them. What they claim, they say should be settled. If it does not belong to them, then let them be told so , and if it does belong to them let them have it. They say, why should they be kept out of what belongs to them, because other people did not want that given to them which belongs to them ? This internal dispute consequently forces the Government into the position of ascertaining once and for ever what each is entitled to. I have told them at Kuatoki and wherever I have been—l have told the parties who wanted the survey, and those who did not want it—that I would see all the people before coming to a decision, and therefore it is pleasing to me to have met you, because I now know your wishes. You will, I think, admit that it is fair in all these things to hear what every one has to say I treat them with fairness, then, after that, decide. Now, what you say for the present is that you do not object to the surveys, but only ask that they be delayed until the delegates have been down to Wellington, and have decided on something definite. That is your mind upon this subject, and hence I will remember it. Now, you have said, at the same time, that you want to have the boundaries of your land defined, but that you would, like to have them denned in some other way than by survey A Voice Let the law define that. The Premier It is for me to lay down the law, but it is impossible for the Queen or the law to give protection while the land is held under the old customs. We have what are known as topographical surveys—that is, putting up trig, stations, merely fixing a line from one point to another without denning any sections. It is not a complete survey, but it is quite sufficient for investigation purposes. The Meeting All the surrounding land is surveyed. The Premier We must connect it with trig, stations. The Meeting We have defined our territorial boundary The Premier But people dispute this point. The Meeting They have exhausted their land. The Premier These people say "No," and that is the cause of the trouble. Not only that; there are connections that have never been made at all. Other lands have never been connected, and it is impossible to connect them without a topographical survey There is one thing you have brought under my notice. You say in the past sometimes Government servants have not carried out the words of the Government. I do not like to hear Government servants blamed without allowing them to have a chance to explain. If any servants of the Government have misconducted themselves, and not acted in accordance with the wishes of the Government, it is only fair that you should let me know those particular servants, so that I m&y judge between you and them. If you have any case to quote where any Government servants have not done what is right, and have not been nice and friendly with the Natives, as they ought to have been, send me a letter put it in writing, then I can deal with it. I can only tell you this that any Government servants I send amongst you for any purpose must carry out my wishes, the wishes of the Government, in friendliness, and lam sure that the Natives will assist them. In future I will send you notice beforehand of what the intentions of the Government are in respect to these matters, and will tell the Government servant who is coming to do whatever is to be done that he is to act in a friendly manner and do what is right. If he does not do so, write to the Government, and I will see things put straight. What I think has been the mistake is that there have been men who have been engaged privately who have caused a little trouble. The Meeting Yes , that is true. The Premier Very well. For the future the Government will deal with you, and whatever is to be done shall be done by Government servants. Then, if there is any serious difficulty that you cannot put into writing, send me word, so that I can send a representative man to come down and see you upon the subject. I cannot come to see you, but I am quite willing to send someone in authority to you who will help you to come and see me, and that will be much wiser than to incur expense mother directions. That is to say, come and see me and talk the matter over without having any unpleasantness. That is my way of doing business. I always like to meet people face to face, and let them tell me their minds as men. It is my desire, and the desire of the Government, to act fairly with you. When we were very few in number in this colony and you were strong you treated us fairly Now that we are strong and you are weak it is only manly, it is only honest, that we should treat you the same. A Voice . Let us define our own boundary The Premier I have told you, in compliance with your own request, that that matter shall remain in abeyance until your delegates come to Wellington, and so it must remain. The Meeting We can show a paper with all the signatures of the Tuhoe in support of this subject. The Premier If you mean by that there is to be another Government outside the Government of the country, and that the Queen is not to be recognised by the Tuhoe, it is no use for you to discuss it in that way There cannot be two Governments in this country I always speak plainly, so that I may be understood. I do not come here to leave any doubts in your minds. 12— G. 1.

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There are none in my mind Not only that, but you cannot have protection unless you acknowledge the sovereignty of the Queen, who governs all. Who is there to protect you ? You are only a few in number It is the law, the Parliament, and the Queen who afford, you protection. Suppose we said, "All right, you say you can govern yourselves , very well, do so", where would you be ? Why, you would soon disappear from off the face of the earth. There must be, and can only be, one Government. I have said, as regards any matters you wish to put before the Government, come and do so. Do not stop at homo nursing ill-will, but let the Government know the cause of the trouble. It is impossible for things to go en as they are much longer You must admit that you are disappearing from the face of the earth, and that you are in absolute poverty Well, the Government is willing to maintain the race, but you must work with the Government, so that your own welfare and the welfare of your children may be protected. If you want to have a committee amongst yourselves to meet and discuss matters so as to condense and bring down to a focus what is in your interest, it is wise you should do so. The pakehas adopt the same course, and they select advisers for the benefit of the country They are what are called advisory committees. There is no objection to that. But, if you want a committee that is to pass laws to have effect in the land of Tuhoe and to act antagonistically to the Government, I may tell you at once it is impossible, and the sooner you get that out of your minds the better it will be for all of you. That has been the cause of all your trouble. What has been the result of the King movement? What has been the cause of your position to-day? Do not think of that for a moment. I do not believe in using force, I always believe in reason. I think it is better to show the advantages to be received , it is always better to be kind, but at the same time firm, to reason matters out, and to show you the position you are in. If you attempt to depart from that course trouble is bound to ensue. I always appeal to the better nature of a man, whether he be Maori or pakeha. I always appeal to his good sense, after pointing out the trouble into which he is going to land himself and those belonging to him. Now, you are contradicting yourselves. You told me you were agreeable to what was done at Euatoki, and that whatever was done there you were bound by Now you want something entirely different to what they want there. They told me there had been a meeting at the end of February which lasted until the 4th of March. They told me of the resolutions passed, and placed them before me. After the explanation I told them there could only be one Government, and they said they would deal with the matters I had placed before them, and later on would see me in Wellington. I can, in conclusion, only advise that you should have a meeting, gather from all parts representatives of the Tuhoe—their best men —consult together, then come to me and bring matters in such a form that I may grant what is reasonable. What is unreasonable I mean to reject, and one thing I should object to, and that would be to have two controlling bodies over one country Perhaps I have misunderstood you, and I would not like it to be said you had again requested the Government to allow you to pass laws for yourselves in these boundaries. I say, perhaps I have misunderstood you. A Native : No, we do not want to fly so high as that. The Premier What am Ito understand, then ? The Meeting We simply want a committee for our own district to settle matters amongst ourselves, not between ourselves and other people—a committee to protect and control our own affairs. The Premier Suppose that those thus protected refused to submit to what the committee had done, by what power are you going to enforce the decision of the committee, or by what laws? Is the Government to stand by and see you killing each other? Are we going to see you have recourse to arms again ? Without the power of the law, any decision of the committee would be valueless , with no laws to support you, it would be no good. The Meeting The Government could give effect to the decision. The Premier You can never do that. Suppose the people you pass the decision upon object, are we to send a Commissioner to see whether the decision is wise or not ? There can only be one Government. The whole thing is in a nutshell. You may have people to advise the Government, but there can be no power but the Government. They are two distinct things. It is impossible to have two Governments over one country If, therefore, you will take up this position—namely, that you want the Government to recognise an advisory body, that the Government is to communicate with you through that body, and that the Tuhoe will speak to the Government through that body, and also that it is to be simply advisory, I see no objection. Further than that it would be very unwise to go. The Meeting: That is what we mean. The Premier My colleague has reminded me of the Natives who were going to have a Parliament of their own. They had a Premier and Native Minister The speakers were going to pass laws and did pass some. Before they broke up they decided that the whole thing was a farce. The first thing they did was to demand a subscription, and they found the people would not pay it. What was the use of having such a state of things as that? A Native It is well that we brought this matter out, because it has drawn from you the possibilities and impossibilities. We are quite satisfied, if it is at all feasible, to have a committee to act on behalf of the people, and to advise the Government in matters on behalf of the people. The Premier That is quite feasible. There is nothing more to be said now, but I wish you all good-bye. I do not think I shall have the pleasure of coming here again until I can come in a buggy If you had better roads you would see your friends oftener and would be brought into contact with the outside world, which would be of great advantage to you. I will say good-bye to you all. My last words are words of kindness, and I hope the time is not far distant when your troubles will be at an end, and that should I in the near future re-visit this place, I may find it and its people in a better position than I find them to-day Good-bye !

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The Premier and party were then taken over the great house, Matatua, after which they returned to Te Mimi, where they stayed the night. On the following morning a Start was made on Foot foe Lake Waikaeemoana, a distance of twenty-four miles. This was a most trying journey, it being over the roughest part of the country they had travelled, the party having literally to crawl over masses of slippery clay and rocks, besides fording several streams. At one time they would have to ascend to a height of 2,000 ft., and at another descend to the same depth. These gigantic undulations continued until about 3 p.m., when, upon ascending the last range, one of the most beautiful sights it is possible to imagine met the gaze. The lake was then viewed in all its picturesqueness, fringed by one of the grandest forests to be seen in any part of New Zealand. A wild hurrah burst from the whole party not so much perhaps on account of the view, but because they imagined they were Hearing their destination. This was not so, however, for several hours of weary travelling lay between them and their destination. Suddenly the track—if track it could be called—turned sharp off to the left, and a large sandstone bank, some 300 ft. high, met the gaze, and the party descended floundering, slipping, and rolling to the bottom. Then commenced an especially difficult jaunt through a sandstone creek-bed. The Premier led the way The whole party commenced to climb over huge stones for some hundred yards, and would them drop 12ft. over a terrace, travel another hundred yards or so, then drop again, and so on for about seven miles. The Maori packers declared it was a moral impossibility to reach the lake that night, and advised camping, but the Premier and Mr Carroll were determined to go on. Night came on, and to keep the track in the dark required a good deal of caution. The lake was reached at about seven o'clock. Here there was a difficulty A Maori had been sent on the day before to get the Natives at Onepoto—the other side of the lake—to bring a canoe to convey the party thither, but there was no sign of any one having been near the lake. There was an old canoe, which had a split in the side and was half-full of water, and that was the only means of conveying the voyagers across the lake, so far as could be seen. Therefore the party resigned themselves to their fate and camped for the night, deciding to wait to see what the morrow would bring forth. The Premier's secretary, when proceeding to the edge of the lake next morning to perform his ablutions, saw a speck of white paper lying in the mud. Picking it up, he saw " Timi Kara" written on the top, and took it at once to Mr Carroll. The whole matter was then explained. The Natives had been there with a canoe, and had waited, but, thinking the party would not arrive till next morning—for (as they said when they ultimately came) they never imagined the journey could have been done on foot in one day —they had returned home, intending to come again later on. Before this paper was picked up, however the Native guide and Mr Biddle, of Euatoki, had volunteered to go in the split canoe to endeavour to hail the settlement at Onepoto. This they did, and were nearly drowned for their temerity, for the canoe was almost in a sinking condition before they returned to camp at 3 p.m. Suddenly a European hurrah was heard, and a large canoe hove in sight manned by five stalwart Natives. Camp was struck, and all-were on board in no time. Sail was set, and the waters lay hushed like a sleeping child —but not for long. Ear away in the distance could be seen " white horses " coming out of- the various arms of the lake, and many predicted tough times before the travellers in their frail bark reached the haven they sought. The captain of this "dug-out," however, assured the Premier that it was too rough at the landing-place, and he would not attempt to take the canoe in. But, unfortunately he was himself taken in, whether he liked it or not, for he was in the break before he knew where he was. But, once in it, he exercised the most consummate skill in bringing his charges safe to land. It is enough to say that The Paety wbee in Imminent Dangee for an hour and a half, and, to make matters worse, the last twenty minutes of the perilous journey was traversed in the dark. But, after being half drowned by the huge seas which continually broke over the canoe, the party were safely landed, and heartily welcomed by Mr. Eobson, Mr Lambert, and Mr Johnston, of Wairoa, who were in waiting with a kettle of boiling water and a bottle of whiskey They applied the latter restorative unsparingly The party then proceeded on horseback to the Native settlement, a distance of three miles, where a splendid dinner and welcome, and, what they urgently needed, a gigantic fire awaited them. Wet through to the flannel as he was, and without a change of clothing, the Peemiee addeessed a Large and Enthusiastic Meeting of the Natives, which lasted from 9 p.m. till 1 a.m. the next day Hapi was the first speaker He said, —This is the dividing line between the Urewera Tribe and the Ngatihahungunu Tribe. All the people who are here at present are anxious to discuss certain matters with you, our parent, the head of the Government, and we fervently hope that the requests we make in connection, therewith will be given effect to. The first subject we wish to bring before you is in regard to the territorial or tribal boundary The next is in respect to the reserves in these parts affecting Waikaremoana. There is some land belonging to us which is included in that belonging to the Government. Hori "Whererangi said, —Welcome the Premier to this place ! You have an opportunity now of seeing the people who reside here. This place marks the dividing-line between the Ngatihahungunu and Tuhoe Tribes. We are a people who are not thoroughly acquainted with the law, and I am glad to see you have endured danger and physical hardship in coming here to see us. We are not living at ease in this place. We do not know how we stand. Therefore we welcome you and your European friends. We hear that the object of your visit is to arrange for the sale to the Government of all Native surplus lands. You will have seen, on your journey, that we occupy most of our land that will admit of occupation. However, we will learn from you yourself, when you speak, the object of your visit.

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Te Kohai said, —Welcome, my parent, Tupaea, that you may see your people who are living here ! You will understand all about the reserves between the Ngatihahungunu and Tuhoe. That is all I have to say to you. Welcome, Mr Carroll, welcome, my son ! You were sent to Parliament to fulfil a mission on behalf of the Native tribes, with the object of seeing their rights adjusted and grievances remedied in respect to their blocks of forest land. Whatever may have been done elsewhere, no relief has reached us but I still have hopes in you, and place confidence in you. Although you occupy a different position to that which you did formerly, I still look to you to redress the grievances of the Native people. I may receive salvation, or I may not. We did not elect you as a Minister —neither ourselves nor the other tribes—though we trust good may come of it. That is all for you. Welcome, my loving friend, the Premier ! —loving when you are disposed to be so. lam glad you have come, my heart rejoices, for it gives you an opportunity of seeing our position here, and the grievances we labour under You will also find out whether those grievances are the fault of ourselves or some one else. It is only since I came under your wing and became your child that I knew what it was to suffer That is all Mihaere said, —Welcome, the Premier ! Welcome, Mr Carroll! It was very thoughtful of you to tread over the territory of the Tuhoe. This is not a country frequently visited by people. It is a strange country It is isolated, and I give you credit for undertaking the journey I greet you for appearing here in our midst. You have travelled through the territory of the Tuhoe, and this is the end of that territory We are the people residing at this end. I cannot, on the present occasion, go into my grievances in detail, but to-morrow I will have them ready I shall, therefore, confine myself at the present time to welcoming you, and offering you my greetings. I shall be quite satisfied to hear from you the reasons for your visit, and what thoughts may be in your breast affecting this part of the country and the people living therein. Oh, my friend, let me welcome you to day You behold a strange people, who are strangers to European laws and ways. You say that if certain laws are followed out it will lead to the salvation of the people. I have not yet seen that such will be the case. Ido not know—l am ignorant. No outside knowledge has been imparted to me. I am living now as I did, according to the customs and usages of my ancestors. I fear that my ignorance will not facilitate me in grasping any counsel that you may give which will lead to our improvement. That is all. Mci te Manuka said, —Welcome the Premier and Mr Carroll! You come here in two forms let me understand you you are Maori and European together lam unacquainted with the many ways of the world, and it is your duty to make things clear to me. If you have anything to say to me in regard to our old traditional matters, well and good if you bring with you European innovations, .then Ido not understand them. However, lam quite willing to learn, quite willing to benefit by any suggestion that will improve my condition and increase my knowledge. lam quite willing to receive any information from you in connection with your travels and journey over this rough country When you speak I shall be able to dissect your speech, and find out that which is trickery and that which is good. Teach ! I can understand the difference between cold and warmth. Te Wao said, —Welcome, Mr Carroll! Welcome, Tupaea ! Bring us our parent, lead him over our territory If you have thought of the tribe of Tuhoe, it is well. That is all I have to say to the Maori members of the troup. Welcome the premier ! Come and see your poor people. Come and look through the Tuhoe country If you have come to save, come if you have come to kill us, come. You are the head of the European people , you are the Government. All power is vested in you. All knowledge of matters in connection with land, and all grievances, are centred in your hands. (Song.) Hapi again addressed the Premier, and said, —We are very glad at your visit. None of us can take offence for your having come through our country You have come in open daylight. You have come through boldly and met our people all through. Others have crept through dark places —that is what has been reprehensible. Now, let me give you both a hearty welcome for your condescending to come and see us as you have done. The chiefs then addressed Tupaea, the young chief sent by Kereru to accompany the Premier He also thanked them for their kind welcome. Mr Carroll also returned their greetings. The Premier on rising said, —Men, women, and children of the Native race, I offer you friendly greetings, and thank you heartily for the kind welcome you have given me here to-day If I had wanted evidence of your goodwill you have given it, and given it so completely that all doubts that may have been in my mind, and in the minds of those who are with me, have been removed. I have listened to the several speakers, and the words used have been those of love, kindness, and welcome. You have pointed out that you are located on the Tuhoe boundary I did not come to you and from you to Tuhoe. I went to the Tuhoe first and came through the Tuhoe country to see you. We came through boldly, and without fear, knowing we were with friends in the Tuhoe country, and were coming to friends here. Before coming here I saw the representatives of the Tuhoe at different places—at Euatoki first—and the welcome I received from them was of the same kind and cordial character as the welcome you have given me here to night. Kereru, whose name I know is revered and respected by all of you, is my friend. At the conclusion of the address at Euatoki he presented to me the sceptre, the taiaha of the tribe, and he also went further, because he offered to come with me on this my perilous journey, but age troubles him, and the infirmities which come therewith, and I would not take advantage of his kindness to undertake such a journey He, however, did what one friend who loves another would do, he sent with me here, as a guide to see me through and bring me here safely, his relative Tupaea, one whom you respect , and I thank you for the welcome you have given him as well as for the welcome you have given the whole party Kereru could not have put my colleague and myself in better hands. A better friend it would be impossible to meet, and no one could have done more than he has to bring us here safely The very fact of his being with the party would, I am sure, be a safeguard so far as you are

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concerned—in fact it would be the mouthpiece of Tuhoe. He is the connecting link between the two. I have on my journey seen every tribe. At Euatoki, Galatea, Te Whaiti, Te Mimi, and Euatahuna, and the same welcome, the same kindness has been accorded and shown to the party and myself on every occasion. As we have journeyed on our way every assistance has been rendered to us, and that assistance we wanted, for it is a perilous journey, and it was over one of the roughest countries I have ever had the experience of travelling through. After travelling yesterday from Te Mimi to the lake, I assure you we all slept soundly last night we were very tired indeed. Well, our guide and friend, Tupaea, brought us safe to the lake, but it rested with our gallant captain and the crew of the canoe to bring us across the dividing boundary and bring us safe to you this evening. Your lake is well named Waikare Moana. They are very troubled waters, and I think every one of our party will vouch and take my word for it that the waters of the lake to-day were very wet. It was rather suggestive to me when I found my old friends Biddle and Collier here, who are travelling with us, taking off their boots. 1 said to myself it is a case of swim., but I thought the best thing to do was to keep my boots on and rely on the captain and crew I watched very carefully what the captain was doing, and I knew full well he knew the danger, and that we were in safe hands. Hence I was satisfied we should reach the shore safely and well. We had very little food on the other side , there were no pigeons to be had, and it became a question as to which of two evils to face—the water or starvation—so we trusted to the canoe, and the captain and the crew who were with it. I must not forget to mention the young man who came from Te Mimi, who assisted the men in the canoe, and who came ahead to let you know of our arrival. Therefore, we may, I trust, presume that the perils of the journey are now at an end. There was great responsibility on the captain and crew of that canoe to-day, because there would have been a change of Government if we had not arrived safe on the shores of the lake. As it is, I believe I can say, without being at all egotistical, lam the first Prime Minister to travel that perilous journey and it is not saymg too much when I say I think I shall be the last for a good many years to come. You have asked the question, —and you are quite right in so doing, —now that I have passed all these perils and am safe here, what have I come for ? You have said, "If you come for our good, welcome , if you come for our evil, welcome ,we are glad to see you." Well, I will tell you honestly as one man speaking to another, colour makes no distinction. We all belong to the Great Master who looks down upon us and loves us all, and I say I came here for your good, and not for evil. I would not have come this distance to do you evil. Just ask yourselves the question—you have done me no harm , you have not injured the Government you have done no harm to any one why then should I desire to come here and meet you to do you an injury ? You have said that you are troubled , that you are a people living here isolated that you do not know what is going on around you and that you are ignorant of what is going on in other parts of the colony and when you speak these words to me, you speak the truth. I feel that to be the case. You are isolated you are living, as you say, not knowing the Government, or the reason for your isolated condition. You say, " Let us know the law, let us know what is going on, what is for our good." That is why I am here. I am here to let you know what is for your good. You have said to-night that you have been informed that I have been going round to see the Natives in order to get them to sell their surplus land.to the Government. That statement is incorrect. You have told me that you have no surplus land, and that what land you have you are occupying and using. If you are doing so, that is all the Government desire. In doing that, you are doing good to yourselves and the colony That is what the pakehas are doing, from one end of the colony to the other and I speak for both races when I say that is what the pakehas desire, and they have said so by passing laws to that effect. The land is there so that it may produce and the people may live—no matter to what race or colour they belong. There is sufficient land in New Zealand for both races, and it is my desire and the desire of the Government that both races may live in love and friendship side by side. It is to promote that object, and with a view of seeing that the evils of the old times—disturbances with the pakehas—are not repeated to see that there is an end to this for all time , to know what your feelings and desires are , and to see how best to assist you and promote friendship between both races, that I have undertaken this journey I shall, therefore, ask you to be true to yourselves, speak your minds, and speak openly You have said to-night that I am your parent and the head of the Government. Well, I ask you as a parent, and as head of the Government, to speak your minds openly to me, that I may know your troubles, if you have any, so that I may be able to help you. If you have no troubles you will not need my help. The result of my experience on this journey is that I find on one side the Native race think they are labouring under a grievance because the pakehas have not paid them that attention which their case demanded, and on the other hand the pakehas say that the Natives are not taking up a position of progress. Between the two there has been a misunderstanding, and you have been misjudged. I can speak from personal experience, and will be able, with the assistance of my colleagues, to remove the doubts that have been on your minds. I have considered your position. You could not and have not been able to go down to Wellington and see me or the Government and explain for yourselves the position in which you are placed. Those who have represented you have done their best. I will not say too much, because Ido not desire to flatter, but will say of my colleague, Mr Carroll, that when he represented the Native race he did his best to bring about friendship and peace between the two races. You have mentioned to-night that his position has changed, that he was formerly the representative of the Native race and now represents a European constituency, and that he is now a Minister in the Cabinet, representing the Native race. I think this will convince you that he possesses the confidence of the Native race, because they returned him to represent them twice, and that he possesses the confidence of the pakehas is conclusive, because they have now returned him to represent them. His position, therefore, is more powerful for your good to-day than ever it was before. I have told you that the Government

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desires to help you. You said to-night there were two or three matters you desired to bring under the notice of the Government, but first you desired, according to your custom, to offer to my colleagues, my friends, and myself a hearty welcome, which you did. You now meet the Government face to face, so that you and the tribes may speak to the Government direct. This is an opportunity which I hope you will take advantage of. Nothing will do so much to remove the doubts which exist as the fact that we are here all together speaking as honest men should speak to one another I believe that if your isolation were removed, if you had better means of communication, and that you could go backwards and forwards to meet the outside world, it would be an advantage to you and to che Natives right through the country I have travelled over It is this very isolation that has caused you to be misjudged. Another false impression that has existed, which this journey will, to a large extent, remove, is that a large extent of your territory is valueless. I say that that statement is partially incorrect. You have asked me to explain the laws to you. I will give you an explanation of the latest laws passed affecting the land of the Maoris. As you have no surplus land, it will not affect you, but I will tell you the law shortly In the first place there is a Board established that has to decide whether the land is wanted for settlement purposes, and whether the Natives are utilising it or not. Then this impartial Board-—upon which the Natives have direct representation (I think they have two representatives, the member for the district, and one appointed for minors), and a Judge of the Supremo Court—these sit and decide upon the value of the surplus land which the Natives desire to dispose of. Then, when this is done, an election is held. The majority, at a meeting of all the owners of the surplus lands, elect whether or not they will hand over the land to the Government, either to sell it or lease it for them, the Natives retaining the ownership of the land, but leasing it to the Government at the price fixed by the Board. If the majority say they will not dispose of it, but want it for themselves, and decide to retain it, the law says, Very good, retain it. But if two-thirds say they do not desire to dispose of it to the Government—if they prefer to submit it to public auction and the world, so that it may fetch the highest price upon the market—the law says it shall be dealt with in that way You will therefore see that, by the latest law passed, no advantage whatever is being taken of the Native race. All the Government desires is that the Natives should have ample land for themselves to cultivate and prosper by That is the wish of the Government. These are the words of the head of the Government to the Native race here. We also say to the Natives—and I speak my mind to you as a friend—that it is in the interest of the Native race that the real owners of the land should be known; that the titles should be ascertained, so that the Native owners should know what belongs to them. Every day, every week, every year that this is delayed makes the danger of doing a wrong to the real owners of the land so much greater The old men are passing away They are the ones who know the facts upon which the titles are to be executed, and as they pass away there is no one who can give us their history They are the connecting links with the past, who can give evidence as to who are the proper persons to obtain the land. I know that in the past, owing to this delay, wrongs have been done, and that people have reaped where they have not sown, that people who had no interest in land have obtained land which did not belong to them, and that the real owners lost it because their evidence had passed away I know also that a great advantage would accrue if each of the Natives —say the Natives here—knew the particular piece of land that belonged to them, and that all the improvements you made thereon would be for the benefit of your wives and children. You would work with a better heart if you knew you were working for those who are ever near and dear to you. There are many who do not till, who do not work, but are content to sell what is produced by the hand of others. I say all should cultivate, but they would do better if they knew that the land they were cultivating belonged to their wives and children and those that come after them. It made me sad when travelling through the North Island to find the Natives passing away—not after arriving at a good old age, but passing away before coming to mature age passing away before their time. And they have lived almost in a condition of poverty when they should have lived, if they had had a title to that which belongs to them, in comparative affluence and wealth. They are wealthy in land. Land is wealth , land is gold—nay better than gold, because the land will produce so long as it is capable. But they are not producing, and that is the condition in which I find the Native race in general. What would be the good to a man if he had his weight in gold, if that gold were placed beside him on the lake with no canoe ? why, he would absolutely starve, gold would be no good to him under such circumstances. Yet that is the condition in which I see the great majority of the Natives in this colony are unfortunately placed in. If, therefore, I can do anything as head, of the Government that will remove this reproach from you, that will help you to improve your position, that will enable you to live in comfort, that the comfort enjoyed by the Europeans may be yours, your wives' and children's, then I say I shall do it. lam here for that purpose, that is the object of my visit on this occasion. Again I say lam not here for evil, lam here for your good. Shortly after my arrival here I saw a number of young children, ranging from four to sixteen years of age, and I asked the question if a school was established here, so that the knowledge we have could be imparted to them, and through them to their parents. The answer was that you had no school here. I asked one of your chiefs what the population of the place was, and he said close on two hundred souls —men, women, and children included. I have not been able to ascertain the number of children you have here, but what I saw would be sufficient to warrant me in saying what I am now going to say to you. I say the parents who neglect to have their children educated are doing them a serious wrong. As the world progresses, if you maintain your isolated position—if you allow your children to grow up in ignorance—they will turn round and curse the parents who gave them birth. The parents who do not use every endeavour to give their children an education are doing them a serious wrong. If you demanded it and it was refused you, then the blame would not rest with you, but if it is never asked for, then I say you are condemning your children to be slaves for all time. The uneducated will be slaves for the educated in the world. There was nothing

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which gave me so great pleasure at Euatoki as when I was requested to get a school established there. The same request was made at Te Whaiti. Each asked me, as I came along, to establish schools in their midst, so that their children should receive education. I say it gladdened my heart, because it was a step in the right direction. Education is the brightest gem of civilisation. Civilisation ofttimes brings with it evils, but the real safeguard to a noble race and the completion of that race's glory is to have its people educated. Without education your position will grow worse and worse every year, and the day will come when your children will say, " Why did we not have the privilege that was given to the pakehas and others of our race in the different parts of the colony?" I was pleased when I was at Galatea to find the schoolmaster was also a medicine-man. The Government had supplied him with medicines ,he had a slight knowledge thereof, and he was acting as doctor for the district, and had been the means of saving life and alleviating the sufferings of those who were sick. I also found he was the postmaster and that they had the convenience of a mail in the place. All this springs from the school. Now, if you have produce you want to dispose of, and your children and yourselves are not taught, how would you know you were getting a fair price for the produce you are disposing of ? If there are laws being passed in Parliament, you ought to know which are for your benefit or if any are disposed to do you harm. If the latter, how are you to have them rectified if you have not some one amongst you who can read and write and know what is being done ? I therefore tell you that that is the one subject which is of paramount importance to you, and it deserves your attention as soon as possible. The hour is growing late, and I will not say anything further at present. I have given sufficient indication why I am here, and that the object of this journey is for your improvement. There are three subjects you desire to bring under my notice to-night, and I should prefer that you do so to-night. I have been a long time from the outer world, and my attendance is wanted in Wellington. I have been longer away than I intended. I would have liked to have stayed with you to-morrow, and discussed matters further, but time will not permit, but I am prepared to sit up with you all night if you like. I am one of those who like work, so let us proceed if you like. If the work is to be done let us embrace the opportunity; let us do that work. Speak to me as a friend, we want to deal fairly and honestly with the Native race, and in such a way that it will promote their best interests. I wish, in conclusion, once more to thank you very heartily for the kind welcome you have accorded to my colleague, our friends, and myself, and I am not saying that which is not founded on fact when I tell you that of all occasions on which I have landed in places in New Zealand, none have given me such great pleasure as when I first set foot on the shores of Lake Waikaremoana. Hapi said, —You deserve the thanks of all. I heartily approve of bringing the territorial boundary under the law, as mentioned by Mr Carroll. With regard to our father's (referring to the Premier) remarks in reply to the many points raised in our speeches, I can only say I am more than pleased— in fact, the whole house joins with my hearty approval of all he has said. This is the first time we have heard any one in his position speaking. It is quite true we should not go by what w r e hear , it is far better that we should meet and talk face to face as we have done to-night, to hear straight from his lips the Minister's own words that is fair, and more satisfactory He has carefully advised us to-night, and given strong reasons why he so urges upon us that our only salvation lies in the law With regard to our father's remark that whenever there is land it should be utilised and made productive, I may state that all the available land, so far as the Tuhoe are concerned, is occupied. The land that you saw lying unutilised when going through this territory you have properly described. It is rough and uninhabitable. The house has naught else to do but express entire satisfaction at what has been said to-night, and the counsel the Premier has given us is worthy of every consideration. He did not confine himself to the question of land alone, the position and character of it, and how it should be dealt with, but he also applied, his remarks to the condition of the people, the supremacy of the law, and how the proper management of the affairs of the people can be made conducive of good results. I heartily approve of and agree with the Premier's remarks in reference to education. Education is the means of imparting knowledge to the people, which will qualify them to undertake administration, and better their position. The people on this side of the lake have really no land of their own, they are living on Government land. The whole of us here agree that we should have a school. In consequence of the Premier's remarks we are anxious to have it, but I would point this out to him, that all this land we are living on is Government land. Where we are living now is only a reserve the Government gave us. We are occupying! the whole of it, ourselves and our horses. If the Premier will consent to give us a portion of the Government land for a school site, we can settle the school question in one breath, because we want the school. The Premier If that is the only obstacle in the way, send me the number of children here who would be likely to attend, and I will confer with the Minister of Education, and settle the matter The school ought to be convenient to where the children are. It only requires an acre of land. Hapi: The Government have some land adjoining this land down the valley here. The Premier I will make inquiries in respect to it. Wharerangi said, —Wiremu has been applying for this school for two years. Mr. Bush came here and he also applied to have it established, but it was not granted. Captain Preece, who was Eesident Magistrate then, saw the number of children we had here, and he advised the establishment of a school, but without result. The Premier How many children are there ? Wharerangi: Fifty The Premier I will confer with the Minister for Education, and I have no doubt you will at once have the school. Wharerangi: You will see when the list is sent you. Possibly there will be more than fifty There is another subject we wish to lay before you which I will explain. In the Waikareiti Block,

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or rather division, No 10. Waipawa Block, the Government own a portion and we own a portion. The Government got a portion of this by the purchase of Block No. 10, and we have the other portion. What we propose is this : that we should surrender one portion to the Government, making the whole block Government land, in exchange for land which belongs to the Government, and which we want. We will give up our interest in that block in exchange for the Government land here. The Premier : The proposal seems reasonable if equal value is given in exchange. Whichever way it goes I am favourably disposed to grant the request, but I must first see the Minister of Lands and discuss the matter with my colleagues. In the face of it the proposal seems reasonable, but it may be that the land is leased or occupied by some one else, therefore it is a matter that I must make inquiries about before giving a decided answer. You had better reduce the proposal to writing and send me a letter giving details and what you are prepared to do, so that I may dea 1 with it when I get back to Wellington. Wharerangi: The third matter is this : There was a reserve given by the Government to us in the Tukurangi Block, and there were reserves given to us in the Taramarimari Block and Waiau Block. There were portions which I excepted from the sale of these blocks to the Government. Ido not know the position of them, whether they belong to me or are still in the hands of the Government. I want you to explain to me whether we only hold this land on sufferance, or whether it really belongs to us or is still in the hands of the Government. The Premier : Of course I cannot give a direct answer to-night, but I take it that what you desire is for inquiries to be made into this matter, and that you should, be informed definitely how it stands ; whether the land is yours —whether it has been legally vested in you. I will let you know after consulting the proper authorities on my return to Wellington. Wharerangi: That is really what I want. These are all the subjects I wish to lay before you. I will just refer to the first matter mentioned by the preceding speaker, with regard to utilising the land. I believe we are utilising all we can. The bulk of our land, as you are aware, cannot be utilised, and we should be only throwing away labour and money in attempting to utilise it. Mihaere said, —We do not object to the Native Land Court or the surveys. We are quite willing to have the titles to the land ascertained, but the bar thereto is the terrible expense we are put to for surveys, and for Land Court expenses. Past experience has been disastrous. The land has been swallowed up in expenses. The following morning a start was made for Waieoa, a distance of forty miles, which was reached in the afternoon. Considerable difficulty was experienced owing to the recent floods having washed away parts of the road, and the party had to go over the hills. Having received several deputations the following morning, a start was made for Gisborne. En route, a meeting was held at Te Mira. The first speaker was Eev. Tamihana, who said, —Welcome, Mr. Carroll, who bring with you the Government! Let the Government see its people, that they are true. Come, 0 Government, and see the Native people you have to rule ! Come and see their condition yourself. [Song of welcome.] Come and bring light to the Native race. [Song.] We have waited for you many years. Throughout all our suffering we have waited anxiously for you to appear. Now that you have come, we trust you will do something which will improve us and lighten our burdens. There are only a few here. Most of the people are on their way to a meeting which is about to take place shortly at Gisborne. They are waiting there for you. We are only the remnant left behind. Your Native children have been sorrowing for a long time. Woe has been with them. Now that you have come, treat us as you would those who are entitled to receive consideration. Ihakara said, —Welcome to the Government which is now before us! Let the Government speak to-day to us, their children. That is all I have to say. Te Hapimana : Welcome the young chief of Tuhoe ! Welcome, my son, under the feet of my Government! In days gone by you trod the path with the King of New Zealand, with the Hauhaus and the Einga-tus, and the result of this trouble to yourselves was the loss of the land, the loss of the people. But now a new light dawns upon me : I see you associated with my Government ; I see you travelling in company with them, and looking after them. Welcome ! Welcome ! Trust my Government, cling to my Government, and the Government will be a friend to you. It will rest with you as to whether good will result or bad. Let us know, let us be satisfied, that you have led them over our territory. Hearken, 0 my son, hearken to my words ! Do not attach yourself to the Government to-day and leave it to-morrow. If the Government will not do you justice in the near future and still imposes heavy burdens on you, do not resent it as in days of yore in the Native style, but point out to the Government where they are wrong. Although we have been told that this visit is only for an hour or two hours, I shall take up most of that time myself. When I say to you, my son, this is my Government, that you should cherish this treasure of mine, I do not mean that I prefer this one to the previous ones which were in alliance with our chiefs who have departed. The people who established this place asked the Government to spread its protection over the land and the people. All the big chiefs of this district were supporters of the Government as against some of ourselves, who rebelled against the rule of the Queen. They gave it as an injunction that we should look upon the Queen and the Government as heirlooms with which to cherish their memory. This is a day for reason, for interchange of ideas and argument as to who is wrong and who is right. My words to you cease now. Welcome, Mr. Carroll, my light ! W T elcome to you in company with our Government! lam glad you have performed the journey that you have, and witnessed for yourselves the character of the country and the condition of the people. You have,

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I hope, carefully explained the sores which exist among the Native people here; they are everywhere. Now that you have reached this place, this district in which you were born, look inside, see its internal position, see what ails the people; make no difference whatever as to the state of one or another. They are all alike in my mind, and their grievances are as much entitled to your consideration as those of the greatest man in the land. The trip of the Premier and yourself through this country may be likened to that of a doctor who visits his patients. Wherever the sick and suffering are, the doctor visits them and supplies remedies. You should take up that position. The women and children will speak, they will lay before you their sufferings. The sufferings are not only with the people, but with the land as well. I must apologize for the absence of the male population of this district. They are all away at Gisborne to attend the meeting there, and all that are left are what you see —chiefly women and children. lamon my way to this meeting, but I stayed behind on hearing of your expected visit, so that the women and children of this place would have some one to speak for them. That is all to you, Mr. Carroll. Welcome the Premier! Welcome the head of the Government! The persons who have journeyed over the Maori districts and visited the Maori people ; and as you have thought fit to come and see the Native people to hear from them what has been troubling them, to see for yourself what is wrong with them, I welcome you as the Native Minister. You have two races under your administration, the European race and the Maori race. lam sorry, and it is a matter for regret, that coexistent with your journey, your visit to the Maori people, you find them in small numbers. You are the captain of the great canoe of the State, you have precious souls on board, and you have to see that the ship is safely taken into its haven. (Song.) Toha said, —Welcome the Premier, and welcome Mr. Carroll! We need not tell you that this place is Wairoa. Its people have not been favoured by a visit from the Government since the days of Sir Donald McLean. We thought at first your visit to this district was only to the Europeans, that they might have an opportunity of laying their matters before you. But now you have come here and visited the Maori section of your people, welcome ! When Mr. Carroll was our represen-tative-we-petitioned him to get the Government to empower the Native Land Court to investigate certain land which had been given back to us in the day of trouble, but it appears through the peculiarity of the law that the Native Land Court has no power. I made two trips to Wellington in reference to this land question. It is a very big grievance to us, and it was during the Atkinson Administration that I raised the question. The Government of that day sympathised with us, and concurred that an injustice had been done, but no step whatever was taken to relieve us. Now that you are in power, we lay the same thing before you. I will never cease applying to Parliament, no matter what Government is in power, to have these troubles attended to. These lands were given back to our chiefs and our people by Sir Donald McLean in his day. All we ask you is to look into this matter, and if you perceive that there is justice in our demand, then in the interest of justice give it to us. It is not a very serious thing, it does not affect many people ; it is only a matter between ourselves. All we want is that the Native Land Court should be empowered to investigate the true title to this land. I have always considered it a very small matter, that could be easily set right. I have a number of times asked Parliament to redress this little grievance, but have waited in vain, there has been no result; and I began to think that questions of a serious character might be treated the same way. Shortly, our trouble is this : Certain lands were ceded by us to the Government. After certain portions were selected, and absolutely vested in the Crown, it was agreed that the balance was to be returned to us. There was no Court to investigate who the owners were. The Government scheduled out the lands; but we now want this land investigated by the Court to see who are the owners, or whether they have been left out and others included who are not the real owners. I know the latter has been the case, and so I hail with satisfaction your visit to us on this occasion, which will allow us an opportunity of laying before you this matter, that affects not only myself but the whole of my people. It is purely a matter of adjustment. We want the titles adjusted. That is all I have to say. You can consider this subject. The Eev. Tamihana said, —I quite agree with the remarks of the last speaker. That is really our trouble in this part. Although it is in connection with different lands lam speaking, they are in the same category. I have petitioned Parliament over and over again—before Mr. Carroll was our representative, and even during his time —in reference to 300 acres which should have been returned and which were promised by the Government, but this has never been given effect to. These acres are lost somewhere or another. Another matter is this : After the first fight here the lands were confiscated. The boundaries were laid down. The majority of the pakehas at that time represented the Government, and in laying down the line they declared that from a certain point the land outside that line should be returned to the Natives. Now, we are not clear whether this has been done or not, but we are certain we have not got the land. This is in the Taramarama Block. The 300 acres, which was arranged should come back to us, has never reached us. Hone Taune said, —I can scarcely find words to do justice to the sentiments I feel and to properly welcome our illustrious guests. I may not be able to do it in the old style, but all I can say now is, Welcome the Premier ! We are very glad of your visit and Mr. Carroll's to the district. Excessive joy took possession of the hearts of the people of this district on hearing that the Premier of the colony and Mr. Carroll were visiting it. You, the Premier, have arrived, and you will find our people —the Native people in this place—-bewailing their grievances. Of course, so far as your colleague is concerned, he is one of us, he was born in this place. Our greetings are directed to you. We are suffering under the operation of the Native Land Court laws which have emanated from the House of Parliament. One of our special grievances is on account of the old law which only admitted of ten persons being put into Crown grants as owners of the land. They were morally trustees. In those cases there were only ten grantees who were included in the 13— G. 1.

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title to a block of land. They should have been only representatives of the people and the owners in bulk, but they became absolute owners, and in many cases these grantees willed away the heritage of the people—and by law had the power to do so—to strangers. That is the great trouble here, in some occupying land, believing it to be theirs, knowing they have claims thereto against those who are in the Crown grant as legal owners but have no right. Wo suffer also under the Act recently passed by the Legislature which enacts that whenever Natives sell a block of land, 25 acres shall be reserved for their own use. Now, if a large block of land is sold by the Natives, 25 acres will not be enough to maintain them. I support the contention of both Toha and Tamihana that these reserves which were intended for us, which were all promised to be given back, should be seen to. The reserves, in which I myself am interested, are Tanikaka and others. Hekiera: Welcome young Kereru, bring our friends with you! Welcome the Premier! Welcome Mr. Carroll! Come and see your people who are heavy laden! We have suffered through the recent floods about a week ago. One flood has destroyed all our crops. We want relief; give it. The Premier : Friends of the Native race, men, women, and children, salutations ! You have expressed your very great pleasure at my being present amongst you to-day. Let me tell you the pleasure is mutual; that lam pleased to be here with you, and that the words which have fallen from the several speakers who have addressed me and my friends have gladdened my heart. I shall leave you to-day knowing that I have friends here, that the Government have friends here, and that you desire to live at peace and in good-will with all men. You have said that you were pleased when you heard I was coming to your district, that you thought I was coming to the district only to see the Europeans, but when you heard I was coming to see you you were delighted. My mission on this present occasion, and the reason for my travels through these parts of the colony, have been to see your noble race more particularly than to see the Europeans. The latter have advantages which have not fallen to your lot. The Europeans have the Press to prot.ect their interests and to speak on their behalf. The Native race have not this advantage ; and I should have been wanting in my duty as head of the Government of the day had I not met the Natives face to face and asked them what their troubles were. We are one people. We belong to one mother. Colour makes no difference to the Great Father who watches over all, and to Him we must look for assistance and love. We are only here for a period, for a very short time indeed, and while here we ought to live in love and friendship one with the other, irrespective of race or colour. "Do unto others as ye would they should do unto you." So I say the pakehas, who are the dominant power, should follow out that precept, and do as the Natives did when the Europeans were very few in this country. You have to-day touched upon a subject which is all-important. You have said that your people are passing away, not arriving at a ripe old age, but dying before their time. We find, you are a noble race, and yet disappearing prematurely from the face of the earth. The world is wide, there is room enough for us all in this land, and it is not the desire of the Government, nor my desire, speaking on behalf of the pakehas in this country, that you should disappear, but it is our desire to inquire into this, see what is the cause, and apply a remedy. You have said that I came amongst you very much as a physician, as a doctor would visit his patients, and after seeing them would prescribe for their ailments. You have well described the position ; you could not have put it more plainly. I am here to-day as a physician, as the Government is desirous of prescribing for your ailments and, if possible, restoring your health. Yours is the sickness of the mind. Your troubles are more on your minds than in your bodies, and yet even in that respect there is trouble. I have found on my travels in the districts in the north, and with the Natives I have met in other parts, very much the same trouble that affects you. Promises have been made and left unfulfilled, and most of the trouble is in respect to the land. Is it to be wondered at that those Natives who have been in the past unfriendly to the Government should doubt the Government, when we find those who have lost their people while supporting the Government not having the promises made to them fulfilled? You welcome here to-day the young chief of Tuhoe who is with the party, and what was said to him I greatly appreciated. They were words of wisdom, and lam sure will bear good fruit in the future. We are deeply indebted to Tupaea, our guide, the young chief of Tuhoe, who has brought us here in safety amongst you to-day. He will now see another world and, as it were, another people, a people of his own race, though of a different tribe, who have always been friendly to the Government, and who are living side by side with the Europeans. There are some evils that he will see that I hope ■will be a lesson to him. He will see, and has no doubt seen—they are here in your midst to-day— those of the Native race giving way to a very great evil. That evil has done and is doing more harm than any other evil that has befallen the Natives. I allude to strong drink. He will see other things that are good. He has now seen the Eev. Mr. Tamihana, who is following the mission of his Great Master, and he has heard his words of love delivered as a message from that Great Master, who is greater than the Government, and greater than all those who are or ever have been in New Zealand. Then he will have heard, perhaps, for the first time that you people here are only representing the wahines and tamariki, that your great men have gone away to a meeting at Gisborne, and, as a wise man, he will have said to himself, " What is the good of their being at Gisborne, taking part in a farce, when the head of the Government himself is here in your midst " ? Well, the Government loves the mothers, wives, sweethearts, daughters, and children of the Native race. Hence I am just as well pleased to meet the women and children as I would have been to meet the men who have gone away to take part in that farce. I will speak for the welfare of the women and children. I say that we, the Government, are desirous of promoting the well-being of the Native race, and of conserving to them the land which belongs to them, and of improving their position in the world. We see a people who, if the Europeans were in the same position, would be considered very well to do indeed. They are rich in land; but that land is useless because it is not producing, and the owners are living in almost absolute poverty. Land is only valuable to mankind

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when it is producing. The great trouble that besets the Natives arises from the fact that each Native has not got his own particular bit of land to cultivate. Some will not work; some reap where they have not sown. That is the curse of the Natives in this country. That is the riiist that is over the minds of the men of the Native race. They see this going on, but do nothing to stop it. In time they will refuse to work, and will leave the wahines to do the cultivation. If I had the power, I would subdivide every plot of Native land and put each of the owners on his own particular plot, and see the husbands, wives, and children cultivating it so that they may live, and know that what you are doing is for the benefit of yourselves for all time, I have been through country during the.last few weeks where, in former times, prior to the advent of civilisation, there were fields of green waving corn. At that time the Native race was prosperous. All toiled; all were living in peace, happiness, and affluence. Now their land is covered with tea-tree, fern, and that abominable nuisance the "missionaries." No one will go to cut down or burn the tea-tree and face the " missionaries." And why do not they do it ? Simply because they do not know who they are doing it for. If they knew they were doing it for their wives and children, they would take off their coats and go to work as their forefathers did of yore. This brings me to the several matters that have been brought under my notice by you to-day. You have told me that land has been vested in ten owners; that it was originally intended that these ten owners should be trustees for the tribe, but, by some mysterious misconstruction of the law, you find that these persons have dealt with the land as if it were their own, leaving the rest landless and in a state of destitution. If anything was to occur of that character with the Europeans the Supreme Court would at once rectify it, upon an application being made thereto. Of course, there is great difficulty in connection with this matter. The land may be all let. It may be that these persons have disposed of it to innocent persons, who have purchased it thinking they were treating with the persons who held the titles. These people may have paid their money, and may be now in possession. I am grieved to hea,r that petition after petition has been made to the Government pointing this out to them, and that no action has been taken. This must have occurred before the land was disposed of. If there is still land remaining in the hands of those persons who were named in the deeds as actual trustees, if it is not too late, I myself would favour inquiry with a view to prevent further evil. I have met with several such cases since I have been Native Minister, and in all cases which have come under my notice where there is good ground for believing the persons named are only trustees, I have granted an inquiry. I believe that next session we shall require to pass legislation to give effect to the inquiries made. I may tell you there is great danger in disturbing titles, because other titles have been granted upon these titles, and very great care will have to be taken. My advice to you is : put down in writing the particular blocks, the respective owners, and the whole of the circumstances connected with this matter, and send it down to me, giving all details, so that I can first of all decide from that information as to whether or not an inquiry is necessary. The next subject I will touch upon will be as regards the 300 acres which you say has disappeared. My reply to that is: give me the particulars in writing, the particular lands, and the whole of the circumstances, so that I may deal with that also after inquiry. The next question you brought under my notice was where you had ceded land to the Crown and lands were given you in return, and that the wrong owners had been put in the schedule of these lands. You want that adjusted? The law cannot, as I pointed out, enable inquiry to be made. You desire it to go before the Court, but the law would not permit ft going to the Court for inquiry. That is the true interpretation of the law. There is good ground for an alteration in the law, and I am at a loss to understand why an amendment was not made. In respect to this matter, you inform me that a petition has been sent down to Parliament, or the Government, and that no action has been taken thereon. lam not —and it would be unfair to hold me—responsible for the mistakes and errors of another Administration, but I do assure you that it is my earnest desire to do justice, and, where injustice has been done, to see the stigma cast upon those who have done such injustice. I would therefore advise you in this, as in the other two cases, to reduce to writing the particulars of the grievance, and send it down to me at Wellington, so that I may, after inquiry, decide whether legislation should take place to meet the case. The last subject that I will touch upon is the one which to me was the most painful of all, and that is that, owing to the late flood—one almost unprecedented in its character, nothing like it having taken place for the last twenty years—your food has all been destroyed. That is a most serious matter indeed. Although you are suffering under this, probably it has been sent as a lesson. From this misfortune good may result. You have lands that the flood could not have touched, lands that belong to these people, yet they have not been cultivated. Had their land been cultivated, the food could not have teen taken away by the floods, and you would have had that to fall back upon. You know the old teaching that if you build your house upon sand the sand disappears, and down comes your house. You only cultivate on the banks of the river. The flood has come, and your food has gone. The Pakehas have an old saying, and that is, " Never put all your eggs into the one basket." Now, the lesson taught by this flood is this :Do not always rely upon small cultivations, on the small quantity of food on the banks of the river, that is liable at any moment to be swept away by a flood. I see stalwart men here, they are very numerous, and a greater number are away at Gisborne. They would be better cultivating the land here. There are quite sufficient men here to cultivate it. You are either idle, or there is something that prevents you from cultivating. Your forefathers were —and I do not desire to hurt your feelings by saying this—as good, if not better, men than you, and yet they toiled and cultivated the soil. This is the mist that overhangs your minds; this is the gulf which you cannot bridge; and to remove it, and to get you back to honest and industrious toil, so that food may be found for your wives and children, that is why I am here to-day. You have said that I was your parent; well, I have spoken to you as a father would speak to the children he loves. You know what has often been said: that the parent who does not deal firmly with his children when they do wrong and fails to correct them—that those children in after life will blame that very parent for not doing it. My words to you to-day have been of a corrective nature; they have

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been used in your interest; and, again, as a parent, I will tell you this, that Ido not wish—indeed, I should be very sorry—that any of you should want for food. I will have inquiries made as to the loss you have sustained, and, if necessary, the Government will render you assistance in this your great tribulation. The Eev. Mr. Walsh is here to-day, and the Eev. Mr. Tamihana is also here in your midst. I will ask them to write to me on the subject, so that I shall be able to deal with it; and upon their reports as to your trouble in this respect, if there is the difficulty you have pointed out, and there is need, I will supply that need by letting you have the necessary food. It is too late for you now to cultivate, the season has gone by ; but we must help you in your necessity. Never again stand before a Minister and say this trouble has overtaken you, whilst if you had used caution the trouble would never have occurred. I have nothing further to say -to you but to express, in conclusion, the very great pleasure it has been to me to be with you to-day, and to thank you for the hearty welcome you have accorded my colleague and myself. The former, by the way, is no longer a little boy, he is a big boy. I also wish to thank you for the welcome you have accorded to the representative of the Tuhoe. We now wish you a kind and friendly good-bye. The party then proceeded to Maeumaeu, stayed there during the night, and proceeded to Gisborne the following morning, arriving at the latter place at midnight. The young chief Tupaea was sent back to his home from here via Opitiki, in company with Mr. Mueller, Commissioner of Crown Lands. The night previous to his departure he expressed a wish to address the Premier when bidding the latter farewell. He said, —We have had a very pleasant trip together, and lam glad you have arrived safe. My mission is now ended ; but before we part I wish to assure you, with regard to my tribe, that whatever trouble they may in the near future come in contact with I will let you know of it. You may rest assured, on account of what Kereru told you at Kuatoki, that the troubles of the past will never be renewed, but that our people will now live in conformity with the law and in peace. That is the feeling of the younger generation. We say no good can come out of anything that is troublous or anything that approaches the troubles of the'past'. We of the younger generation are also mindful that a new age is dawning upon us, and that that dawn is in the interest of our tribe and our lands. At the present time, while my elders are alive, the control of the affairs of the people rests in their hands. I speak of Kereru, Numia, and others. Were anything to happen to them—were they to die—it would then be my duty to assert myself in my proper position ; and I feel that whenever it comes to that period— although I should always regret their passing away—l would immediately, in the interest of my tribe, take up my position and manage for the good of the people and for the good of the land. The hapus to which I belong are large land-owners. There is one thing, however, that I could do, notwithstanding my youthfulness, and I feel that I would be in order in doing so, and that is to advocate as strongly as I can the establishment of schools in our district for the purpose of educating the rising generation. I felt all through our journey the want'of education. I often sat by and listened to you enjoying your jokes with each other, and the members of our party, and I judged by the merriment which was evinced that there was something to rehsh ; but I was precluded from joining therein owing to my ignorance of your language. Now when a young man like myself is so expatriated from the fruits of knowledge, it behoves him to take up the line of action I have indicated, and to strongly advise his people to have schools in their districts. Hard as this may be on myself, still, it cannot be helped. Suffice it to say that Kereru, Numia, and myself have been sacrificed to the want of education ; but, in the interest of the younger people of the Maori race, education should be given them. They are noting now the error of the past. Henceforth let schools be established, or else, they will find themselves in the same condition of ignorance that we are in. Now, with regard to the proof of your love for myself (alluding to a gold ring which the Premier had taken off his finger and given to Tupaea) in this token, I tell you in all earnestness I will never relinquish it, nor ever let it out of my hands into those of others, but I will cherish it, not for its intrinsic value, but for your having presented it to me as a memento of our journey and the good feeling that exists between us. I will not keep to myself the knowledge of our trip, with all its pleasing incidents, and all our mutual enjoyment, but I will relate everything that has happened, even to your goodness to me as evidenced by your gift, to Kereru, Numia, and the elders of the people, as well as to my own helpmate and my children. I was very glad that you were so thoughtful as to communicate with them, and to inform them of our safe arrival in this place; and I was very pleased at the nature of their replies which you showed to me. I hope the good feeling that exists between yourself and colleagues will never cease, but will continue so long as lam on this side of the grave. I can only thank you for your kind consideration in regard to the photograph which you say you will send me, and copies thereof to distribute amongst the other chiefs, so that they will remember the journey we have performed together across our territory. It will cause their minds in the future to look back to this time with feelings of kindness at your meeting them, and joining together with them in mutual korero and travelling through their country. I told Kereru when I left Euatoki that I was anxious he should insist on the block being investigated by the Native Land Court, and to oppose any attempt on the part of the other tribes or hapus to postpone the hearing. I said that I was anxious there should be a test case, that our right to the land should be investigated, so that we might know what we really did own, and that it was a good thing our lands should be under the protection of the law. lam rather grieved at what I heard to-day in this place that the Euatoki Court was further adjourned. The Premier :It is adjourned for seven days. I telegraphed to Wellington, and learned that Judge Scannel could not get away. When I get back there shall be no further adjournment. If Judge Scannel cannot go I will get somebody else. I am anxious to have the matter properly adjusted, and your claims to the block proved.

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Tupaea: I undertook this journey out of love and friendship for you, and to see you safe through the country. I shall be on my way home to-morrow, and so will you. I therefore wish you a kind farewell. Conclusion, Thus ended the most successful trip that has ever been made by a member of the Government through Native territory. The distance travelled was 1,794 miles, viz. :— By train .... ... ■ ... ... ... ... 400 miles. By water ... ... ... ... ... ... 712 „ By horse ... ... ... ... ... ... 658 ~ On foot ... ... ... ... ... ... 24 ~ The following are the settlements visited, viz. : — moawhanqo poeoti. Galatea Pipibiki Waiomio Tβ Whaiti Tibke Waimate Te Mimi Taumaeunui Waima Euatahuna Te Kuiti Waimamaku Paia Hukanui Whakatane Te Mica. Ngaeuawahia Buatoki Nineteen meetings were held, and two thousand assembled Natives addressed, representing about ten thousand. It will be noticed that in the foregoing narrative the speeches made by the Hon. J. Carroll are conspicuous by their absence. This is accounted for by the fact that, wherever the Premier met the Natives, he was introduced to them by Mr. Carroll, who fully explained to them the object of the trip, and at most of the places acted as interpreter, the party not having taken an official interpreter with them. Where their services were available, Mr. G. T. Wilkinson (Waikato) and Mr. W. E. Goffe (north of Auckland) rendered valuable assistance as interpreters, and thanks are due to them on that account. The Premier's party consisted of Hon. Mr. James Carroll, Mr. Gerhard Mueller, Commissioner of Crown Lands and Chief Surveyor for the Auckland District, and Private Secretaries T. H. Hamer and J. F. Andrews. The latter took a full note of the proceedings throughout the entire trip, and to his skill as a stenographer is due the foregoing very complete record of the many meetings with the Natives. Under all the circumstances the work of recording the speeches was a most trying one. The party was engaged in travelling very frequently all day long, and at night would hold meetings with the Natives in their primitive dwellings. It is no easy task to follow and take a correct stenographic report of a number of long speeches at any time and under favourable circumstances; but, after travelling on horseback over the roughest of rough country, to sit or lie down on the floor of a Maori runanga (meeting-house) and — sans table, chair, or other convenience —record verbatim a number of rapidly-delivered speeches is a feat in phonography. The party was accompanied during a portion of the trip by Mr. J. M. Geddis (New Zealand Times, Wellington) and Mr. J. Gray (Auckland Star), whose reports were published in their respective journals in extenso, and Mr. William Herbert Jones, F.E.G.S., during the journey through the Urewera country. Mr. Jones is collecting material for a work that he is about to publish dealing with the principal features of the colony, and his researches in this hitherto unvisited locality will prove of considerable interest. Attached are some extracts from newspapers regarding the Premier's trip. The narrative of the trip was to have been laid on the table of the House during the session of 1894, and it was commenced to be printed just before the session began, but it was found inexpedient to go on with the printing, as the large amount of one class of type required would, if so locked up, have greatly inconvenienced the printing-office staff. The printing was therefore delayed till after the bulk of the sessional work was completed.

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APPENDICES.

PEESS OPINIONS AND EEPOETS.

Mblboubne " Aegus." The Argus of the 28th March, 1894, comments thus on the Premier's trip : — " The Maoris are to have no abiding city in their native land. This may be unavoidable, but still the divorce of the New-Zealander from his territory will be regretted by sentimentalists in general, and by the many friends of the race in particular. The fiat has gone forth, because the Premier of the colony claims to be a philosophical Eadical, and because the philosophical Badical is strictly utilitarian when it comes to business. Mr. Seddon has been through the so-called Kingcountry, and he sees no reason whatever for adhering to the arrangements made when the soldier was in the field, and Sir George Grey was Governor, that ' the Maori should have his piece'— a very small slice, and that ' the pakeha should have his piece'—a very large slice. The Maori idea was that the white man should not buy land in the King-country, and that the tribes should remain there on their tribal domains for ever. But this is not to be. Mr. Seddoii's proposal is that the Maoris should be informed that there is no difference between their part of the country, the romantic and volcanic district between the Waikato and Taranaki, and any other part; and that the Government will in future take possession of any tract in the King-country it wishes to sell to the white man, paying the Maori for the area in interminable debentures. This power of ' resuming' lands needed by the State is, of course, well known in all countries, and yet it is self-apparent that there is a difference between deposing the Maori from his final acres, and the taking the bits of land for public purposes. New Zealand will not seek to deal harshly with the Maori; and it so happens that the tribes have a champion in England in the person of Sir George Grey to state their case if injury is proposed. Moreover, as time goes on, the Native race will doubtless have to go; but assuredly there was a tacit understanding when the fighting was on that if the King tribes laid down their arms and acquiesced in the boundaries as arranged for them they would be left on their holdings ; and as a matter of sentiment it might be well for the Wellington legislators to wait until Bewi and the last of the chiefs who fought, and fought gallantly, for this right of the Maoris to hold Maori land have •disappeared from a scene which they are now fast leaving." Auckland " Stab." The following vigorous article, from the Auckland Star, of 20th March, will tend to illustrate the fact that the Northern people regard the Premier's trip in a most favourable light:— "Mr. Seddon's modest peregrination through the North Island, accompanied only by Mr. Carroll, has had very little of the outward aspect of a Eoyal progress. Instead of pomp and circumstance, there has been for the Premier, we are sure, a great deal of mental fatigue and weariness of the flesh in these long journeys, and often tedious interviewings. But, unless we are greatly mistaken, his visit to the recesses of the King-country and to the country north of Auckland will be fruitful of more valuable results than have accrued in other countries from many a real Eoyal progress. Already it has had an excellent effect in more ways than one. To begin with, it has furnished the people throughout the North Island with the best proof they could get of the earnest industry which the Premier displays in all his work, and of the desire to do justice to all parts of the colony by which he is actuated. Even Mr. Seddon's bitterest opponents, where they have not been converted into his friends —a transmutation of which we have had frequent evidence lately—have been forced to praise the assiduity, firmness, and tact he has shown during the tour. They may bring the favourite old charge of autocracy against him for lack of any other, but they certainly can never accuse him of being a roi faineant. Hard-working and most practical in his industry is the character he has justly earned throughout the North. If there is anything more than another which we do need in these colonies, and which in the past we have lacked often when we most required it, it is a practical Ministry with a practical Premier at its head. We think no one will dispute that we have both now, and the advantages of them to the whole country are becoming more and more apparent every day. This is peculiarly the case with regard to Mr. Seddon, and especially since he determined in his dual capacity of Native Minister and Premier to make himself personally acquainted with that great tract, the King-country, which it is imperative should be thrown open for settlement, and those other tracts in the North which, though long ago open to the European and a source of great wealth to the colony, have been almost ignored in Wellington. Here is no Premier sitting in his armchair dozing over ' visions of a perfect State,' or indicting essays on Utopia while a young colony brimful of wealth and opportunities is crying aloud to be developed. Here is no vain theorist or smooth-tongued speechifier, excellent, no doubt, in a debating society, but worse than useless in a Legislature like ours. Here is one who understands that a practical knowledge of the conditions of life in the colony is "even more necessary in those that make the laws than in those who are chiefly affected by them—one who sees with a clear eye that here where the Premier has to take on his own shoulders the chief burden of the State, and has not Secretaries

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and Under-Secretaries to share it with him, he should have a minute, almost parochial, acquaintance with the needs and resources of every part of his dominions. Of course such an acquaintance could only be found in an ideal Premier. We must be well content with approximations to it. To gain such an approximation in regard to the North Island is the object of Mr. Seddon's present visit. In regard to the South Island he already possessed it, partly as an inheritance from his predecessors in office and partly through his own researches. Prior to this journey of his, it has been somewhat fashionable in the Wellington House to be ignorant of the greater portion of this Island. The King-country has been a sort of ' misty mid-region of Weir' in the minds of ninetenths of the members, and as for the country north of Auckland, it might be compared to the famous ' Isle of Wind ' on which Pantagruel and his companions landed in their search for the Holy Bottle, and where the inhabitants are described by Rabelais as living on promises, flattery, and hope. With the Premier's advent a new epoch has dawned for both the King-country and the North, we hope. We have now the perfect assurance that in the future sessions of Parliament these long-neglected portions of the colony will have the attention which they merit. When discussion arises in future debates on questions relating to the settlement of Native lands in the centre or northern portion of this Island, or to the development of settlement in the peninsula north of Auckland, there will be found on the Government benches, in the person of the Premier, a willing and discriminating listener, to whom Northern members can address their grievances with the certainty of having them considered with that impartiality which only comes from perfect practical knowledge. In the future, recalcitrant Maoris meditating foolish and misjudged opposition to the march of civilisation will remember the practical Premier who travelled open-eyed through their land, and think twice before they venture on a ' humbugging ' policy. And in the future the struggling Northern settler, and the equally struggling gumdigger, will feel that they have a friend at Court indeed. The former, toiling with his produce through roads deep in mire, will not despair of some amelioration of his hard lot when he considers that the Premier understands his difficulties, while the knights of the spear and spade will feel a firm confidence in the man who entered so fully into their difficulties in the most familiar spirit without designing to flatter them for one moment." "New Zealand Hebald." The Premier's visit to the picturesque district and township of Whangarei is thus recorded by a special reporter of the Neio Zealand Herald. The report appeared in that journal on the 17th March:— "I omitted in my last to pay a tribute of praise to the Northern Steamship Company for their excellent steamer arrangements. The Premier and party found the s.s. "Wellington" a most comfortable boat. Under Mr. Ransom's management the company have gained a reputation for the comfort and punctuality of their boats. "Taurau Kukupa, a leading chief of the Parawhau Tribe, had an interview with the Premier this morning. He claims to be the principal owner of the Whatitiri Block, in which the Uriroroi Tribe are also claimants. He wanted the Native Land Court for the investigation of title to sit at Whangarei. He also wanted his application for a rehearing in the Omiru Block, which comprise the Wairua Falls, heard as soon as possible. "The Premier replied that he had already promised that the Court for Whatitiri should sit at Poroti. The application for a rehearing could not be considered until a successor to the Chief Judge was appointed. " The Premier, Mr. Carroll, and party, accompanied by Mr. E. Thompson, M.H.8., and others, left Whangarei by special train at 10 a.m. to-day for Hikurangi. At Mairtown two of Mr. Dobie's little girls were at the station and presented the Premier with a magnificent bouquet and a basket of locally-grown oranges. The party went on to the terminus of the railway at the new coalfield, a mile beyond Hikurangi, and inspected the place. On returning to the township the Premier received telegrams apprising him of a banquet in his honour at Kawakawa in the evening, and asking him to meet the Natives at Waiomio in passing through, and to have another meeting at Waimate to-morrow. "Various deputations were awaiting the Premier on his arrival at Hikurangi Township, and they were duly received in the billiard-room at Eolleston's Hotel. Mr. J. W. Kerr acted as spokesman for a deputation appointed at a public meeting on the previous evening to urge on the Premier the necessity of immediately pushing on railway extension to Whakapara, three miles and a half beyond the present terminus. He pointed out that it would there tap the river, which had a drainagearea of something like seventy square miles, and a large extent of valuable timbered country, comprising the Puhipuhi Forest and Crown land to the eastward of it. The railway-works would also afford employment to a large number of men who could not now make a living at gumdigging. Coal and manganese deposits would also be tapped. " The Premier said it was a waste of time to talk of starting works merely to give employment to gumdiggers. The Government could not exceed the parliamentary appropriations. The extension of the railway to Whakapara was a matter deserving consideration when passing next year's estimates. The deputation had made out a good case, and if the statements as to the extent and quality of timber, and coal, et cetera, it would bring to the market were verified by official investigations the matter would receive the favourable consideration of the Government. " Mr. W. G. Barker presented a petition, signed by forty settlers, urging the formation of a road between Hikurangi and Whananaki, on the East Coast. Messrs. J. W. Kerr and H. Hawken also spoke. " The Premier said the Government had given assistance to settlers in respect to these matters last session—first, by making Native lands chargeable for half rates, and, second, authorising the imposition of a vehicle-tax. Settlers must be self-reliant, and a vehicle-tax ought to be imposed on those who used the road. He could make no promise.

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" A large deputation of gumdiggers was next received. Messrs. D. H. Lannan, B. Hutchinson, George Horn, Moore, and Cato spoke, urging the necessity of starting road-works if the gumdiggers were not to be thrown upon public charity. Fifteen out of every twenty men were not able to earn ' tucker,' and the best men could only make £1 ss. a week at present prices. " The Premier said works could only be started where likely to be reproductive, and only to the extent of the appropriations. The Government could not initiate works solely for the purpose of affording work to the unemployed. Gumdiggers, like farmers, were feeling much the bad times. Something, however, ought to be done, and he was considering whether an arrangement could not be made whereby gumdiggers could take up land, as miners now did, under an occupation license, paying nothing only so long as they had a certificate enabling them to dig for gum and cultivate, secure against invasion from other places. This would also give permanency to the industry. He intended to inquire carefully into the matter, and see what could be done. The delegate to the Conference at Canada had also received instructions to investigate the cause of the present depression of the foreign gum-market. " Mr. D. D. Lannan asked that land in Puhipuhi should be opened for settlement. The timber there would help settlers to make a living. " Mr. Seddon promised to lay the matter before the Minister of Lands. "The party, after lunch, left for Kawakawa." The Pbemier at Kawakawa. —("New Zealand Herald.") The following is taken from the New Zealand Herald of the 19th March: — "The Premier and party arrived at Kawakawa about 8 o'clock on Friday evening, after a long drive over exceedingly rough land, and were met by Mr. Houston, M.H.E., and a large party of residents. The party immediately adjourned to the hall, where a sumptuous banquet was provided by Mr. Stewart, whose efforts were much appreciated. The Chairman, Mr. Kirkpatrick, proposed the toast of the Premier. '•' Mr. Seddon, responding, said the reason of his visit was the desire of the Government to settle people on the land. They were met with the difficulty of procuring land, which was held in large tracts by Natives —unoccupied, unused, barren, and untitled. With a view to remove this difficulty the present tour was undertaken. Mr. Seddon referred to the extremely involved condition of the Native-land legislation as absolutely retarding settlement of the question. The time had arrived, he said, when this entanglement must be removed. The Natives should be consulted in the matter, and should have indicated to them the course of action which the Government intended to take. The sooner they knew this the better for themselves and the colony. The Natives should know that the lands which they do not intend to use must be disposed of to Government. "The Hon. Henry Williams, M.L.C., said he had long entertained the opinion that some change was absolutely necessary in the methods of procedure. He felt sure that the Natives would readily fall into place if made to understand that special concessions would not be made in future. "The Premier and party, accompanied by Mr. J. S. Clendon, Eesident Magistrate, and Mr. Houston, M.H.E., journeyed to Waiomio, where they were met by an influential representation of the Ngapuhi Tribe. They intimated to the Premier that they had nothing to say regarding their own affairs. "The Premier said he took it that silence indicated perfect contentment and happiness, and urged them to avail themselves of this opportunity to ventilate their grievances. "The party next proceed to Waimate, where one of the most important meetings will be held." The Peemieb in the Ukeweea Countey.—("New Zealand Heeald.") " The most interesting part of the Premier's trip was that through the Urewera country. The Urewera Tribe have resisted the advances of civilisation with greater pertinacity than that displayed by any other branch of the Native race ; but the Premier's visit has gone a long way towards removing the difficulties which retarded settlement in the district occupied by that people. In dealing with the Maori race considerable tact and judgment are required. It is true that the tribes who have been brought into close contact with the Europeans during the last thirty years have acquired enough knowledge to convince them that their interests are bound up with their white neighbours ; but the Ureweras, before the Premier's visit, were in a similar condition to that in which Sir George Grey found the Native race in 1845. A passage from the preface to Sir George Grey's ' Polynesian Mythology' applies with considerable force to the Premier's visit to the Urewera country : ' I soon perceived,' writes Sir George, ' that I could neither successfully govern nor hope to conciliate a numerous and turbulent people, with whose manners, customs, language, religion, and modes of thought I was quite unacquainted. In order to redress their grievances and apply remedies which would neither wound their feelings nor militate against their prejudices it was necessary that I should be able to thoroughly understand their complaints; and to win their confidence and regard it was also requisite that I should be able at all times, and in all places, patiently listen to the tales of their wrongs or sufferings, and, even if I could not assist them, to give them a kind reply, couched in such terms as would leave no doubt on their minds that I clearly understood and felt for them, and was really well disposed towards them. "The foregoing remarks fully explain the utility of the Premier's visit to the Urewera country." Auckland " Stab." That the trip to the Urewera district was not without its difficulties and dangers may be gleamed from the following report furnished to the Auckland Star of the 4th April:—■ " Wairoa, this day. "The Premier and party have just arrived safe and well at Frasertown, about five miles from Wairoa. We have had some thrilling experiences. The country is the roughest and most dangerous

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to travel through that I have ever met with. The floods on Monday week have played havoc with the tracks, which were ever bad at the best. " From Timitirni to Lake Waikare-moana we had to do on foot twenty-four miles, and after eleven hours' travelling we reached the Euatahana side of the lake just in time to find the canoes gone, the Maoris having come to the conclusion that owing to the bad weather and rough country the party had gone some other way. There was an old canoe on the bank, so some of the party went round the lake yesterday morning and lit fires, which could be seen from the Native pa on the other side of the lake. A miserable day was spent, as the supply of food was run out, and short rations was the order of the day. The Premier's food yesterday consisted of a pigeon which the Maori guide had shot, and the novelty was relished exceedingly. It reminded him of his old digging days. "In the afternoon the Maoris came with canoes, but advised the party that there was a risk in crossing, as there was a gale blowing and the seas were running very high. There was hunger on the one side and a drenching on the other, so ' All aboard !' was the order. Camp was struck, and into the canoe the party went. All went well until the canoe got to the middle of the lake, when it commenced to blow a gale, and the seas kept coming into the canoe, and it was a case of bale for existence. The Maoris behaved splendidly, and it was owing to their skill, courage, and coolness that the party reached terra, firma. The party on shore gave up all as lost, for they saw nothing at one time but the canoe. Some of the party in the canoe lost all heart, some took off their boots and made preparations for a swim, and one of the party wanted to know why the Maoris did not make for the nearest land. Mr. Carroll and the Premier took the matter very coolly. The former simply said, ' Leave the Maoris alone. They value their lives just as well as we do ours.' After battling for about two hours, the canoe was beached stem first into one of the coves to the west of the usual landing-place. The party were drenched through and through, but this was all forgotten on being landed safely. " Mr. Bobson, Mr. Lambert, and Mr. Johnson gave the Premier a hearty welcome, and expressed their gratitude at seeing the party landed safely. The Premier said of all the welcomes given on the trip none was so welcome as that accorded; in fact, there was no shore which he was so pleased to set foot on as that on the south bank of Lake Waikare-moana. " The party then proceeded to the Maori pa, and after food the Premier received addresses from the Natives, and delivered one lasting over an hour, and at the conclusion the Natives expressed themselves delighted at having their parent, as they called Mr. Seddon, amongst them. In fact, right through the journey the welcome from the Natives has been very enthusiastic. " The Premier has seen all the Urewera hapus, the Waitangas at Galatea, and Wheaweras at Waiti, and all expressed themselves as desirous of working with the Government in keeping the laws and living in friendship with the Europeans. " To-night the Premier is to be banqueted at Wairoa." In connection with the Urewera country, the following interesting report of Mr. Mueller, Crown Lands Commissioner, taken from the Auckland Star, will further indorse the Premier's statement that the differences between the races there are practically settled. It is also gratifying to note that Mr. Mueller considers a large part of the land admirably adapted for settlement. The indications of gold form another encouraging feature in the Commissioner's report:—■ " On Saturday evening, Mr. Mueller, Commissioner of Crown Lands, returned by steamer from Ohiwa, after his recent tour with the Premier's party in the Urewera country. Mr. Mueller states that about Euatoki there is a large amount of good land for settlement—land absolutely ploughable, and very different to what the party found in the southern parts of the Urewera country. Prom Euatoki they went to Galatea, and from thence to Ahikereru and Te Whaiti, a Native settlement. The road lies along the old Constabulary track formed in the time of the war. It traverses about twelve miles of open land and seven miles of bush, coming out on open fern-lands on which the Native village stands. The Premier's party received every hospitality from the Natives, and had a meeting with them. They went down to Euatahuna, one of the famous strongholds of the Ureweras in the war time, and not far from it was one of the early mission settlements. It is now marked by the densest masses of sweetbriar that could be imagined—in full fruit, with red berries—looking at a distance like a painted plateau, and can be seen miles away. The land in the Whakatane and Waimana Valleys was found to be very good, but the area which will stand cultivation is exceedingly small. In fact, the whole of the cultivable land seen in these valleys did not amount to more than 8,000 acres, all the rest being mountainous country. The ranges were steep but not precipitous, and were covered with good soil, and producing, wherever grass or clover had an opportunity of striking root, most luxuriant growth. In several places they saw cocksfoot 4ft. high. They had a meeting at Euatahuna with the Natives, and were the first Europeans allowed to enter Te Kuti's runanga house. They had to hand over pipes, tobacco, matches, and knives, as it was tapued, and no one in possession of these articles would be allowed to enter. It was excellently ca.rved and painted, but the carvings were of the modern type, and by no means as beautiful as can be seen at Whatiwhatihoe, or those which were executed at. Oruanui, Taupo. " From Euatahuna they went back to Te Whaiti, and stayed there for one night. Next morning they started for Te Mimi, and this was the worst journey for the horses, being up and down hill. They commenced the journey at daybreak, and were overtaken by night in one of the steep ravines, there just being room enough for two or three small tents. They pitched tents, tied up the horses, and huddled together for the night, the Maoris sleeping round the camp-fire. At daylight they pressed on, reaching Te Mimi at noon, and held a meeting with the Natives. It is one of these out-of-the-way places where three-fourths of the younger Natives had hardly ever seen a European. 14—G< 1.

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" On the following day the journey had to be made on foot, the Maoris carrying the swags, the route being to Lake Waikare-moaiia. The road from beginning to end almost crossed the run of the terraces, and it was simply a succession of ascents and. descents. While crossing the creeks, a sharp lookout was kept by those of the party who had mining experience for signs of gold. Several layers of wash and most likely-looking stuff were passed. There was no time for prospecting, as they knew that their energies would be taxed to the utmost to reach Lake Waikare-moana that night. The party also crossed several quartz reefs, three or four of them composed of dim hungrylooking quartz; but amongst the pieces picked up in one of the creeks, at least one showed unmistakably gold in the quartz. It will be many years before that country can be opened up and made fairly accessible for miners, but there can be no doubt it will prove gold-bearing. Alluvial mining, as far as could be seen, will never be carried out on an extensive scale in the Urewera country, but quartz-mining and -reefing may develop into great importance. About seven miles from Lake Wai-kare-moana the party struck a deep creek with sandstone bottom, gouged out and widened to an average of fully a chain. Down this creek the party made up the lost ground of the previous climbing. The Premier, heavy man though he is, kept the lead for fully five miles, no doubt owing to his alertness in following West Coast parties. However, when the party reached the lake at dark he was clean done up, and could not have gone another half-mile to save his life. " When the party got across Lake Waikare-moana they went to a meeting-house at a kainga three miles below the lake, and were well received and entertained. The evening was devoted to harmony ; English, Irish, and Scotch songs were sung, and after Christy Minstrel selections were exhausted they fell back on Moody and Sankey, the Maoris coming in with a few waiatas and speechifying. This went on until half-past 2 o'clock in the morning, when masters got quieter and more subdued towards daylight. Then the tinkling bell called them to Hauhau morning prayers : men, women, and children join in the responses. The same ceremonial took place at 6 o'clock at night, the prayers being a compound of Christianity, Judaism, and heathenism. Saturday was the Hauhau Sunday, and. Hauhaus stick largely to the Old Testament. • "Leaving Lake Waikare-moana they got horses and went to Wairoa. On the road the Premier broke the record in riding from the meeting-place to Frasertown in the shortest time, although part of the road was washed away and a detour had to be made. " At the Wairoa, and near Gisborne, the Premier had meetings with the Natives and received deputations, after which he went South. " Mr. Mueller, according to promise, escorted a Urewera chief, Tupaea, from Gisborne to Whakatane by the Motu track, one of the routes held in fear by those who have to traverse it in the winter time. As it was, the last day's journey commenced at 6 a.m. and lasted till half-past 8 p.m., the women being fourteen hours in the saddle to reach Opotiki. From thence Mr. Mueller made two trips inland to examine two large blocks at the upper ridges of the Waioeka, and another south of Ohiwa Harbour, with a view of constructing roads giving access thereto. The Chairman of the Whakatane County (Mr. Abbott) and several Councillors accompanied Mr. Mueller, and the party returned exceedingly well pleased to find a good passable road through Nukuhou and Waimana Gorges, which, owing to the height of the range, prove to be the only means of access to this large block of good land. Mr. Mueller, as already stated, returned by sea from Ohiwa to Auckland. " Mr. Mueller says there will be no further trouble with the Ureweras. The past is past, and they will trust the Government and the Europeans to deal fairly and justly by them in future. They recognise that the balance of power has passed from the Native people to the Europeans, and that it is futile to oppose the extension of settlement." That the Premier's trip to the Urewera country must be productive of great good cannot be doubted. The following report of the farewell meeting, taken from the Auckland Star of the 3rd April, establishes the fact that relations of a most cordial character have been established with the tribe. The accompanying article from the same journal of the 4th April compliments the Premier on the tact and judgment displayed by him in dealing with a tribe which has heretofore not been on the most friendly terms with our settlers:— " Whakatane, Tuesday. " The Premier finished his meeting with the Urewera tribe late last night. The result has exceeded the most sanguine expectations, and Native troubles in this part of the colony are practically at an and. The chiefs assured the Premier that the Tuhie, or Urewera, will ever respect and obey the laws, and no matter what other tribes may do they will never again assist in any movement antagonistic to the Government, but will, if necessary, help and strengthen the Government. They have requested a school being established at Euatoki, also that the Land Court for investigating titles shall be held at Euatoki. This will no doubt astonish all who know the Euatoki and its past history, for it was the Hauhau centre and the stronghold of the disaffected Natives. " The Premier promised to send them a Union Jack flag when the chief notifies him that a flagstaff has been erected. " The chief asked Mr. Seddon to withdraw the warrants that are still unexecuted upon some offenders over past troubles. He told them that the law must take its course, that the law was more powerful than the Government. If they surrendered he would, seeing now that the surveys have been made, favourably consider and recommend the Government to remit the sentences, but would not make any promise. They must express contrition and obey the law. " Kereru sends his nephew with the Premier to-morrow, to act as guide through the Urewera country, and the final act of the meeting was that Kereru presented the. Premier with the Urewera taiaha, which belonged to their ancestor Eongokaeke, and through which ancestor they claim the Euatoki Block. In presenting it, the old chief was very much affected. He said he gave it to the chief rangatira of the pakeha, and it would be in good hands, and those of a friend. The Natives would not again require the weapon. It was now a token of peace.

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" The Premier replied that the Government would see justice done to him and his tribe and to the whole of the Native race, and that their faith in the Government was not misplaced. He and others think to see us part on our journey to-morrow morning. " This is a little different to what occurred a little over three years ago, when Governor Onslow thought it wise to turn back after getting as far as Euatoki. " The Ministerial party should, reach Wairoa about Friday next." " The Urewera Country. " The present trip of the Premier of the colony, the Hon. E. J. Seddon, through a portion of that erstwhile terra incognita, the Urewera country, at the invitation of a large section of the Urewera Natives themselves, is attracting special attention, as it deserves, on account of the novelty of the journey by a Minister of the Crown, and because of the fact that the Urewera Natives were until lately the most hostile and intractable of any of the Maori tribes, and were most bitterly opposed to the Europeans, and to the advances of the pakeha. It is only within a very short time that the celerated Urewera have allowed Europeans within their inhospitable and forestclad domains. It will be of some interest now to recall descriptions of the Urewera some years back. "In February, 1871, after the East Coast War was over, Major Eopata, with his friendly Ngatiporou, was sent on a mission into the heart of the Urewera country in order to meet the scattered members of the Urewera, and try and wean them from the influence of Tβ Kooti. The Urewera assembled at Tanaki, and sent an insolent answer to the effect that they would not allow booted feet to pass beyond the boundaries of Maungapohatu. Major Eopata marched on with his two hundred men to Buatahuna, into the far interior. ' Here,' says an account of the time, ' they met the Tuhoe Tribe —wildest and most savage of bushmen. A spectator might well have imagined himself in the New Zealand of Captain Cook's time, so wild and fierce was the appearance of these people. Their long hair was tied up in a bunch like the scalp-lock of the American Indians, and ornamented with white feathers. The effect was ferocious in the extreme. In their speeches to Ngatiporou they denied that Te Kooti was a man of crime, arguing that the slaughter of women and children was only an old Maori custom. Like all the inland tribes, who could have no grievance against us, they expressed undying hatred to the pakeha.' " In February, 1886, Captain J. E. Eushton, of Ohiwa, returned to Opotiki from the heart of the Urewera country, where he had been, on behalf of the Government, endeavouring to take a census. ' His report was most unfavourable,' said a newspaper report at that time —only eight years ago. ' He found the Natives very sullen and morose, and unwilling to give him any information, declaring themselves averse to pakeha rule and pakeha religion, the greater portion having adopted the Hauhau religion of Te Kooti instead. There are, it appears, fully six hundred fighting men of this savage tribe occupying a large area of country almost surrounding Opotiki, while Opotiki itself, with its thousand men, women, and children, lies unprotected and defenceless. There is not a single rifle in the district. A few of the settlers have applied to the Defence Minister for permission to get arms, and form themselves into a rifle association, but no reply has as yet been received. , " Since that time the Urewera seem to have been somewhat reconciled to the ever-advancing pakeha, and they now give evidence of a disposition to abandon the policy of isolation which they have stubbornly maintained for so many years. The rumours of gold in the Urewera Eange are not lost sight of, and it is probable that prospecting parties will take the earliest opportunity of spying out the land when the old antipathy of the Natives to gold-prospectors is overcome." " Temuka Leadeb." That the Premier's trip has attracted a good deal of attention in the Middle Island may be gleaned from the following article, taken from the Temuka Leader of the 20th March : — " The Premier and the Natives. "The Premier's tour amongst the North Island Maoris can only be characterized as a triumphant march. He has been received everywhere with demonstrations of goodwill and kindly feeling, and, so far as we can gather from the published reports, the Natives have shown him pretty plainly that they repose confidence in him. Mr. Seddon has not gone amongst the Natives with a cringing mien ; he has employed no arts in his efforts to secure their goodwill. When a man arrested for gome misdemeanour in connection with stopping surveys offered to shake hands with him, Mr. Seddon refused to do so, on the ground that he could, not take the hand of a man who had been guilty of breaking the law. Compared with the action of Mr. John Bryce in 1883, in shaking the hand "of the murderer Te Kooti, Mr. Seddon's conduct stands out in bold relief. In the same way, when Tawhiao, the Maori King, put on airs, and attempted to get the Premier to dance attendance on him, the Premier maintained the dignity of his position by insisting on the King coming to see him. The King was an hour behind the time he had appointed, and when ho arrived he found that Mr. Seddon had left. This is the way to teach the Natives obedience to the law ;it is, in fact, the best way to bring them to realise their position. But this was not all. Mr. Seddon told the Natives that the vast areas of land which they had kept locked up must be made productive. He told them that the Government were cutting up the large estates of Europeans, and that the Natives must expect to be similarly treated. It is not with honeyed words or fair promises, or deceptive artifices, therefore, that Mr. Seddon has secured the goodwill of the Natives. He has spoken to them bravely and fearlessly, but at the same time he promised them that they should receive justice and fair play. Manly and spirited independence, as well as earnestness of purpose, and a disposition to be just and fair, have won for the Premier the confidence of his European fellow-settlers throughout the colony, and we have no doubt that it is an appreciation of

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the same qualities that has aroused the applause of his Native audiences. They have, with that keenness of perception peculiar to them, seen that Mr. Seddon means to treat them honestly. They see that he is determined to save them from being robbed by the harpies who have hitherto been preying upon them, and hence the secret of their confidence in him. " But, from all appearances, Mr. Seddon will have no easy task in devising a land policy which will be acceptable to the Natives. They are imbued with the idea that they ought to have a Parliament of their own, and manage their own affairs in their own way. This cannot be permitted. If they had lived on a separate island something of the kind might be done, but in this colony, where Natives and Europeans live in promiscuous intercourse, a separate Parliament is an utter impossibility. Then, there are some of the Natives ready to lease their lands, and others who would prefer to sell. So far as we can see Mr. Seddon is more 'favourable to leasing than to purchasing Native lands, and in this respect he is unquestionably right. There are many good and tangible reasons why leasing Native lands is preferable to purchasing them. In the first place land is the only means of living Natives have. A European can turn his hand to a thousand-and-one things, but the Native's whole dependence is on the land. That being so, it is necessary that he should, have land in order to live, for without it he must become a burden on charitable aid. This must be prevented, and now is the time to do it. The Maoris have more than enough land now, but they are not making proper use of it. It is necessary that this land should be made productive, and at the same time secure to the Maori a living from it. How is this to be done? If the land is sold the Maori will squander the price of it in a few months, and be a beggar for the remainder of his life. That certainly is not the way to do it. If, on the other hand, the land is leased, an annual income is secured to the Maori, and he cannot become pauperised, for the yearly sum will always be paid to him. Under the leasehold, also, the land is secured to the Europeans, and is made productive by them, and thus all the requirements of the State are satisfied. Selling means beggary to the Natives, and consequently taxation for charitable-aid purposes to the Europeans ; leasing means a secured income to the Natives, and immunity from irksome burdens to the Europeans. Leasing, under proper conditions and Government supervision, is better for the European than purchasing, and thus, in whatever way one looks at it, the advantages are all in favour of leasing. We have no doubt Mr. Seddon sees all this, and that he means to carry it out. If so, it will be a good thing for both the Natives and the Europeans." The " Oamaku Mail." The following is taken from the Oamaru Mail: — "That the action of the Premier in relation to the Natives who reside in the most isolated parts of the North Island must be productive of good will be admitted by all colonists who are not blinded by prejudice. At much personal inconvenience the Hon. Mr. Seddon made his way to the Urewera country, and succeeded in establishing friendly relations between a once turbulent tribe and the European settlers. The course of duty is often not the agreeable course; and to the irresolute man there is many a lion in the way. But the Premier, whatever his other faults may be, is not irresolute. He possesses a strong backbone, and, when he considers that a certain course is right, his action is decisive, and his judgment prompt and sound. The Hon. Mr. Seddon is the sort of man who, in spite of obstacles, independently of what may be the opinion of partisans or opponents, will do what he thinks right. He feels like Pompey, when venturing on a tempestuous ocean, when on an important occasion he had to be at Borne, and exclaimed, ' It is necessary for me to go; it is not necessary for me to live. . Or like Luther when he said, 'I would go to "Worms though devils were combined against me thick as the tiles on houses.' Or like Paul when he said, 'I am ready not only to be bound but to die at Jerusalem.' The sense of duty transcends every other active force. The man who is nerved with that cannot be worsted. He sets at defiance the attacks of his political opponents, and pursues a straight course in order to accomplish what he considers a good work. From the reports of the Premier's interviews with the principal Natives which have appeared in some of our Northern contemporaries we feel convinced that his trip through what was, until recently, a terra incognita will bear good fruit. Whilst taking up a firm and determined stand, he at the same time exhibited statesmanlike tact and diplomacy ; thus winning the respect of a people who are shrewd judges of character, and can appreciate a leader of men when they meet him. The colony owes a debt of gratitude to the Premier for his action in bringing the Native race into closer harmony with the European population. " One of the strongest illustrations of the yeoman service which has been performed by the head of the Government is to be found in the fact that, during the last couple of months, applications have been made for the establishment of four Native schools in districts where heretofore no such institutions existed." Auckland " Stab," 29tpi March, 1894. " The cry of the roadless North has long resounded through the land. The lament is not of recent date, but year by year has steadily grown and increased in volume until it has sunk into insignificance almost every other question affecting the province. In the past .little or no efforts were made by the Government of the day to ameliorate this deplorable state of affairs, and the settler, beset by all manner of difficulties and oftentimes danger, has had to struggle on as best he could, relying on his own exertions and a kindly Providence. Impassable roads and no roads at all and a consequent isolation from market and business centres have been disheartening handicaps for the settlers, and that they have fought on and at last established homes proves conclusively their lion-heartedness and courage. But it seems that the turn in the long lane has at last been approached, thanks to the present Liberal Government. To the Hon. E. J. Seddon is due all praise and credit for being the first Prime Minister of New Zealand to be personally interested in the wrongs and distresses of the North of Auckland, and to demonstrate that interest in a practical way. We can with confidence say that every settler and resident gratefully appreciated the desire shown

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by the Premier to lighten the burdens of the struggling toilers and to permanently improve the existing circumstances. The visit and investigations were by no means of a superficial character ; every opportunity was availed of to glean the fullest and most accurate information, and the honourable gentleman underwent a great deal of fatigue and labour in his determination to make his knowledge as complete as possible. He was everywhere enthusiastically received by the residents and settlers, who exhibited their delight at the visit of the Prime Minister in every possible way. Mr. Seddon is now thoroughly conversant with the needs of the North, and the position as regards Native lands, the locking up of which has so greatly retarded the settlement and prosperity of the country, and accentuated the hardships of the pioneers. The gum industry was not neglected, and the Premier's suggestions for solving the difficulty in connection with the present crisis, and to meet any future contingencies, have almost without exception been heartily indorsed by gumdiggers and others interested in this valuable trade. The tour concluded on Tuesday evening, and, although it is premature to predict, we are pretty safe in saying that next session will see most of the proposals framed in definite terms. " On Tuesday night, the 13th instant, the Hon. E. J. Seddon left Auckland, in pursuance of the visit which was promised last session to the country comprising the extreme northern portion of the North Island of New Zealand. The party, numbering altogether seven persons, included the Hon. J. Carroll, the representative of the Native race in the Cabinet, and Messrs. Gerhard Mueller (Commissioner of Crown Lands), T. H. Hamer (Private Secretary to the Premier), J. P. Andrews (official reporter), and the representatives of the New Zealand Times and Auckland Star. The trip by the steamer ' Wellington' to Whangarei initiated the journey into the northern wilderness, and the party made Marsden Point and steamed up the tortuous though pretty arm of the sea that leads to the jetty and railway on the following morning. The sea jaunt had proved a delightful inauguration of the tour, and no one had had any cause to bemoan unruliness or insubordination in the gastric regions. On the landing-stage, cordial, and his jolly countenance wreathed in welcoming smiles, stood Mr. Eobert Thompson, member for the Marsden electorate, and with him was Mr. Dobbie, well known to Aucklanders as the most successful orange cultivator in the district, and who is also manager of the railway traffic in this particular portion of the colony. Under the care of these willing gentlemen the run to the township was quickly accomplished, and the travellers at once adjourned to the Commercial Hotel, where host Bunyard had thoughtfully prepared a most excellent breakfast. The wants of the inner man had scarcely been satisfied, and a few telegraph messages received, considered, and the answers despatched, when the Premier was under weigh to fulfil the objects of his tour —to visit the toiler for kaurigum in his lonely desolate haunts, and the Maoris in their most retired villages. Comfortably ensconced in a capacions brake, a start was made for Poroti, a settlement lying some seventeen miles almost due west of Whangarei, the centre of one of the best gumfields in the North and of the Urirorois, a tribe holding some 50,000 acres of first-class land. The road was of a very circuitous nature at the commencement of the journey, leading over a low range of hills. Once these were negotiated some very pleasant level country was traversed, the good metalled road being skirted on either side by thriving homesteads. A prolific crop of maize and a miscellaneous profusion of vegetable growth were eloquent testimonies to the rich productive quality of the soil, and their contemplation almost forced one into a state of dreamy reverie—to forget the present unnatural state of affairs, and picture the North a happy prosperous country with all the magnificent gifts and recources of a bountiful nature being similarly availed of and developed. Alas ! this ideal was soon rudely disturbed and dispelled, not only by a complete change in the aspect of the land, but also by the most unceremonious jolting of our devoted vehicle. We had parted company with the settlers' best friend, Macadam, and, leaving behind the evidences of.man's civilising hand for the nonce, had plunged into a region still clothed in all the glory and beauty of nature's original garments. " Down the winding mountain-path on the far side of the range we were soon enjoying a scene which dwellers in the towns are seldom privileged to witness. The hills, thickly wooded with virgin bush, rose abruptly on our right, a fern-clad valley followed us on the left, and far away, restricting the vision, was the horizon of ranges —the eternal ranges. Small homesteads cosily nestled in the forest by the wayside were passed at long intervals, and blackened smouldering stumps and partially-cleared plots showed what a courageous and successful fight the lonely settler was waging with almost overwhelming forces. Several bullock-wagons, conveying kauri timber from a stretch of bush in the vicinity of Maungatapere, were quickly lost in the rear, and then we were left to ourselves and nature. But no more ruminating on the country as it ought to be was possible ; all one's thoughts and energies were concentrated in devising the best and safest means of alighting from the coach the moment before it capsized or rolled over the embankment. That precious vehicle, however, seemed to take a fiendish pleasure in anticipating your decisions, and unless the calculations were carried on with both arms glued tightly round the rail you were in imminent danger of pitching headlong into space. These sensations were rendered doubly acute at times by the coach foolishly endeavouring (so it appeared to the occupants) to travel along the side of a house —the road would suddenly slope right away and form a very obtuse angle, along which the conveyance careered at a reckless pace, while its valuable freight looked anxiously into emptiness and pondered on the uncertainty of human life and the particular law of gravitation that kept the machine from rolling wildly into a stream some half-mile below. However, as nothing serious occurred, and as we continued to pass safely over many another murderous stretch of road, we concluded that a kindly Providence had extended us its protection, and therefore we once more turned our attentions to the wondrous beauties of nature. The road we were traversing was simply villainous in midsummer; its state during the winter months would defy adequate description by the most eloquent of writers—it could not be expressed in writing. Fancy that hilly, uneven, and, at places, precipitous surface made soapy by rains, and hundreds of the awful ruts and holes com-

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pletely lost to view under several feet of water, and the reader may possibly have a faint conception of the difficulties and dangers experienced by those daring spirits who constitute the advance guard of civilisation in a new land. The ranges came to an end at last, and we bowled over pretty, lowlying country, skirting the edge of an extensive kahikatea bush, with the track meandering through a large area of flat, good land. The soil up to this point had been extremely patchy ; for several hundred yards the coach had rolled smoothly across rich, black loam, and then churned up a white clayey stuff, this process having been repeated at intervals of longer or less duration. The settlement of Poroti was entered shortly prior to noon, and the Premier met a few representatives of the Uriroroi, a set of intelligent, muscular men. A chief named Hira te Taka greeted the Premier with the usual salutations, and explained that a meeting had been arranged for the afternoon. The notice of the visit had been very short, but a good gathering was expected. This hapu numbers some 108 Natives, who own over 50,000 acres of grand land, at present wasting all its substance in the propagation of fern, tea-tree, bush, and a miscellaneous assortment of weeds. The village differs from the ordinary style, inasmuch that the habitations are of sawn kauri timber, constructed after the European plan. A small cluster of houses is to be found at Poroti, but the Natives are scattered all over the country, and it was owing to this fact that the party of welcome was so meagre. There is one block of land containing 14,000 acres being surveyed, but the title has not yet been obtained. "As several hours were to intervene before business, it was decided to pay a visit to the Wairau Falls, a natural wonder very little known outside the immediate vicinity. This is all the more surprising when it is considered that the falls rank among the largest in New Zealand so far as volume of water is concerned. The road was a repetition of the latter part of the journey to Poroti, only, if anything, much rougher. We were with the gumdigger all the time. Several whares, the only indication of whose presence was the small line of bluish-grey smoke ascending from the centre of tea-tree clumps, were noted along the track, and whenever the occupants were near a hearty ' Good day !' was exchanged. The last three-quarters of a mile to the water was a case of tramp, and soon, as we followed the track through the high scrub, a dull, sullen roar began to be distinctly heard. Suddenly, and without any warning save the noise of falling water, a most magnificent scene burst into view, and we gazed in rapture on a great sheet of water, churned and angry, descending in white feathery spray to the masses of rock some 80ft. below. The sheet must be nearly 200 ft. broad, and when we saw it the volume of water had greatly diminished. In winter, our guides told us, the river is always flooded, and the commotion is truly terrific. The edge of the precipice projects over the base, and through the sheet-falling liquid can be discerned a profusion of beautiful ferns, which add an indescribable tint and charm to the scene. From the falls the river continues a broken course, resembling very much a series of small rapids. Adjacent to the falls, and hid amongst the dense growth of superb bush, are immense blocks of limestone, and several large caves, which were once the Native burial-places. The remains of old-time warriors still lie there in great numbers, but it is said the recesses have been pillaged of everything in the shape of curios, weapons, and implements. It was a hard tussle to tear away from this entrancing spot, but business was business, and the Maoris had to be met, so there was nothing for it but to get back as quickly as possible. During the return the Waitomotomo Block was pointed out. This belongs to the same tribe, and early in the sixties was the scene of a great intertribal battle. Evidences of the old pa still remain, but it has long been deserted. It was due to the efforts of Sir George Grey that peace was restored between these belligerents. Our ' Grand Old Man' visited the place in company with Major Yon Stunner. A peculiar story is related of Te Tirau, the chief of the hapu at that time. One of his men ran amuck and killed a woman. Sir George Grey pointed out to the chief that the unfortunate fellow was not accountable for his action, and extracted a promise from Te Tirau that blood would not not be spilt in revenge. Immediately subsequent to the departure of Sir George the chief caused a hole to be dug, and in this the madman was securely buried up to his neck. He provided amusement for the old women of the pa as long as they were in a humorous mood, and then his head was also covered and vigorously stamped upon. i That was his end. " While retracing our steps an incident occurred ■which was thoroughly characteristic of the Hon. E. J. Seddon. Crossing a piece of swamp-land, a solitary gumdigger was met, armed with spear and spade, and with a collecting-sack slung across his shoulders. Mr. Seddon did not content himself with merely wishing the toiler ' Good day,' but, dismounting, shook hands with the man and made inquiries as to his luck. The digger was a typical specimen of his kind—intelligent, straightforward, and thoroughly good-natured. He was relieved of his tools, and the Premier was soon busily engaged spearing and turning up the rich black swamp-soil. These exertions were continued for five or ten minutes, but only a few specs of gum were collected. The digger remarked that luck varied greatly, and said it was a hard task to make a living just then. As time pressed, this nobleman of nature, who was immensely pleased at the Premier's geniality and kindly interest, and who said he would never forget the day, was left to pursue his weary labours, and the party returned to the hotel. " After luncheon a representation of the gumdiggers of the locality interviewed the Premier on the burning topic. It may be as well to state here that this field is leased from the Maoris by Mr. S. Rawnsley, who employs over a hundred diggers. The field is one of the best in the country, and the diggers are a happy family, working for one of the most generous and considerate buyers in the colony. The deputation consisted of intelligent hard-working men who, although buried in an out-of-the-way part of the country, were evidently cognisant of all that was passing in the outside world. The proceedings at the meeting have already been published, and it would be mere recapitulation to give a report of the interview here. The requests were very similar to those put forth at the other centres, and the Premier's scheme for settling the diggers on the land was also propounded. This was very favourably received. Several Councillors interviewed the Premier in

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connection with local requirements, and the party then walked over to the Native settlement, where a goodly number of the tribe had collected by this time. The proceedings took place in the meeting-house, in which the Premier occupied the position of honour at the end of the building. The Hon. J. Carroll acted as interpreter. The Natives, comprising men and women, were squatted in a semicircle, facing Mr. Seddon, and all the children of the settlement were glued to the windows and door-cracks, watching the deliberations of the pakeha and Maori with all-absorbing interest. The Natives, although numerically weak, were very influential, and large owners of land. In response to the Premier's invitation to state their grievances, several of those present made statements. The first to speak was one of those Natives who have endeavoured by every means in their power to foster and further the estrangement and misunderstanding existing between the Maoris and the Government. He had travelled up from the East Coast to object in toto to the Native Land Purchase and Acquisition Act. He did not know why he objected, but he did. The others also objected, but admitted that they were entirely ignorant of the measure and its provisions. The Bill was fully explained by Mr. Seddon, who also promised, in reply to a request, that the Native Land Court should go to Poroti to investigate the blocks of land now being surveyed. One or two other local matters were dealt with in a manner satisfactory to the Natives. " The party then returned to the brake, en route to Whangarei, and on leaving Poroti the gumdiggers gave three hearty cheers to Mr. Seddon and his Government. They were evidently very grateful to the honourable gentleman for the trouble he had undergone to visit them and endeavour to better their condition. As the anxiety with regard to accidents had subsided, the drive back in the moonlight was extremely enjoyable. The peaceful valley and quiet bush in the glimmering silver rays lay in calm repose on every side, the intense stillness being occasionally disturbed by the lowing of cattle and crying of night-birds. In the distance, where land was being cleared, several bush-fires relieved the landscape and gave an added charm to the enchanting scene. For miles this soft picture soothed the feelings, and made one think life was worth living after all. Then the evidences of civilisation, imperceptibly at first, changed the aspect and thoughts, and the transformation was completed on arrival at Whangarei, where the residents had made ready a banquet to do honour to the Premier and his colleague, the Hon. J. Carroll. There was a good representation of the townsfolk present, and the proceedings never lacked animation. The usual toasts were honoured, those of 'The Guests ' jand 'The Government' being enthusiastically received. The Premier, in responding, dwelt on the policy of the Government and the objects of his tour, and Mr. Carroll also spoke, referring in his remarks to the Native difficulty, which, he said, was not to be allowed to remain in its present state much longer. The Government had determined to legislate in this direction, but of course it would be premature to state just then in what precise form they intended to act. The gathering broke up close upon midnight with the general singing of ' Auld Lang Syne.' " In the morning the Premier was seen by a patriarchal chief named Taurau, who wished the Government to have the Whaititi Block, which is now being surveyed, investigated by the Native Land Court. He wanted the land settled by the Court before he died, and was promised this would be done as soon as the surveys were completed. It seemed there was to be no rest for the travellers, and soon after the morning repast—as soon, in fact, as the Hon. the Premier could satisfy the demands of interviewers, whose numbers were legion—a start was made for the interior proper. " A special train was in attendance to run over the Hikurangi railway extension, now rapidly nearing completion. One brief stoppage was made to enable Mr. Dobbie's little children to present Mr. Seddon with a basket of fine oranges, tastefully arranged among the foliage of the tree, and a lovely boquet. Needless to say this gift, appropriate of the neighbourhood, was highly appreciated by the recipient. On sampling, the oranges were found to be really excellent and very luscious, despite the fact that the season had concluded some time previously. Several small coalpits were passed, and the train then entered another region of loveliness, stretches of virgin bush alternating with long reaches of fern-covered hills, and the contour of the country continually undergoing changes. The land in every stage—clothed in native verdure, partially subdued, and completely cultivated—could be observed during this journey, which drew to an end as Hikurangi was approached. Small clearings and diminutive cottages gave warning of the vicinity of a settlement, but the train continued its course past Hikurangi, an exceedingly prosperous little village laid out in the valley. The passengers on this occasion were the first to pass over the line, and no stoppage was made, in order that the distinguished visitors might proceed to the termination of the rails, where, a gang of workmen were discovered busily employed laying down sidings and putting on the finishing touches to that already in position. This line taps a vast extent of coalland and valuable kauri forest. At present it only reaches the extreme edge of a country rich almost beyond conception in natural wealth. At this spot, and within a stone's throw of the line, we were privileged to witness some very unique phenomena. " The country here, it should be mentioned, is full of lime deposits, and great masses of stone are everywhere en evidence. Well, by some mysterious agency, enormous blocks of this substance, symmetrical and neatly squared as though a small army of masons had been labouring at them, stand one on another to a considerable height, forming a solid tower, and in every case with a large puriri or kahikatea tree rearing heavenward right from the centre. Perhaps in a couple of instances the trunks of the forest giants have subdivided, and, closely embracing the limestone, have entered into each other once more at the top and continued their upward growth as solid trees. These curiosities of nature's providing almost beggar description, and require to be seen to be appreciated and understood. The train then retraced its way to the township, and an adjournment was made to Rolleston's Hotel, where business was at once proceeded with. A large body of settlers and gumdiggers was present, and extended a hearty welcome to the Premier, who gave audience to the deputations in the billiard-room. This was quickly filled with able-bodied men, all evidently hard workers, and not too abundantly possessed of this world's goods. It was also

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manifest that they were there with a purpose, and not for the mere sake of being present. The settlers interviewed the Premier on local matters, and" the gumdiggers' business was almost identical with that of the previous day. One suggestion was made by a digger to the effect that the Government in settling diggers on the land should reserve a piece of gum-country exclusively for those settlers. This would keep the field from ever being flooded, and would enable the settlers to make a little capital when required. Mr. Seddon thought this idea was worth consideration, although it received scanty consideration at the hands of his fellow-diggers. " The wants of the inner man having once more been satisfied, Mr. Seddon and party bade farewell to Hikurangi, amidst ringing cheers from the settlers and gumdiggers. The conveyance that did duty on the previous day was again utilised, but it proved rather unwieldy and cumbersome. We were traversing the main trunk road of the North Island, and, to use a mild expression, its condition was deplorable. " Our experience to Poroti had been bad enough in all conscience, but this trip was destined to be worse —very much worse. A slight hill was first ascended, and then the coach travelled through several miles of swamp, which was encompassed as far as the eye could reach by bush-covered ranges. Even at this early stage of the journey ruts and cavities drew attention to their existence in the most forcible manner, tossing one about in every conceivable and inconceivable direction, and causing our staid equipage to cavort and frisk to an unbecoming and painful degree. The surrounding high land gradually converged, and we were soon carefully picking our way through valleys and along mountain-sides in the midst of dense bush. Great boulders were strewn over the track at regular intervals, and always at places where ruts were absent; and, when both these failed, wooden culverts and bridges, rising perpendicularly from the road to a height of a foot or more, served to remind us of the joys of a settler's life in that particular locality. In crossing a culvert or bridge, the horses unconcernedly banged the front wheels against the wooden wall, then pulled altogether and surmounted the obstruction, walked to the other side, stepped down, and quietly waited while the attachment behind fell with an awful thump on to the road beyond. This exhilarating experience became frequent, then familiar, and finally monotonous, before the drive ended, and set one speculating'if any portion of the body would possibly escape dislocation. But this was not the only diversion. In one or two hollows the wheels actually disappeared up to the axle even at that time of the year, and our Jehu entertained us with reminiscences of his experiences in the winter months. At one spot his horse had had to swim, while the driver and passengers climbed to the uppermost seat, and prayed that the wheels would not wander from the road into the adjacent swamp-land. Again, a piece of ground some chains from the road would be scanned with interest, because it was there some unfortunate horseman discovered himself, after an ineffectual attempt to guide his steed through the waste of muddy waters. In the bush the land seemed good enough, but once clear of timber the country looked very barren and desolate. A settler's home with a small cleared plot was met with now and again, but habitations were very sparse. Fern and tea-tree scrub alternated with luxuriant bush growth, and occasionally large clumps of kahikatea would be encountered, keeping the interest ever sustained. "At Hukuranui a short stoppage was made for refreshments, and we left considerably enlivened by the intelligence that several culverts were perforated with large holes, and an accompanying admonition to the driver to be very careful. Once more the road lay.over mountain-ranges, at times winding along the edge of a steep timbered precipice. Some stately kauris were passed on the upper land, but forest quickly disappeared when the descent began. Another tract of uninviting country met the gaze, and continued to Towai, where the Premier was interviewed with regard to some local matters. There were about a dozen houses at this place, and in either direction the road was in as dilapidated a condition as was possible. Yet at the settlement was a carefully laidout racecourse, with miniature grandstand, judge's box, and saddling-paddock. The anomaly was startling, and could not escape notice. Kawakawa was not very distant now, and soon was passed a cleared knoll, which was the scene of the famous Euapekapeka fight during the Hone Heke war. A couple of the guns still lie embedded at the place, and there are also the remains of the old pa. The shades of night were rapidly enveloping the road and country by this time,.and the uneven state of the track rendered a walking-pace imperative. Very little persuasion was required to induce the horses to adopt this rate of speed, and the drive at once began to get tedious in the extreme. The driver was also a cautious man, and, when informed that the coach might arrive at its destination before morning, but not possibly prior to midnight, sagely remarked, 'It is slow, but sure. I don't care how long I take, provided I get there.' We said no more after that, but fervently hoped that the vehicle would not develop a propensity to pick out the deepest ruts or skate down the mountain-sides. Once the coach violently canted to an angle of forty-five degrees from the perpendicular, and its devoted freight thought the end had come. The driver was calmly assuring, but, after getting his charge out of the dangerous predicament, admitted that he thought ' she was going.' She did go, but at something slower than the proverbial snail's pace, and thankful indeed were the passengers when the Native settlement at Waiomio was reached. " This lies three miles outside of Kawakawa, and as it was late, the Premier, through the Hon. J. Carroll, informed the Maoris that he would come out and hold a meeting the following forenoon. The party then pushed on, arriving at Mr. Stewart's hotel about 8 o'clock. Mr. E. M. Houston, M.H.E. for Bay of Islands, was present to welcome the Premier and his colleague, who immediately proceeded to Stewart's Hall, where a banquet had been prepared in honour of the visit. Over fifty residents attended, and the proceedings were characterized by the greatest good feeling and cordiality. Considering the brief notice given, Mr. Stewart had accomplished wonders in pro* viding good things, and making the table attractive, and, as the honourable guest said, ' If such excellent results attended a short notice, it would be impossible to imagine what kind of a feast would follow an extended intimation.' The healths of the Hon. E. J. Seddon and the Hon. J. Carroll were toasted with great enthusiasm, and ' The Government' was also warmly received.

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Mr. Seddon, in responding, referred to the objects of the tour, and also gave a concise outline of the Government policy. Mr. Carroll also replied in very felicitous terms, both speeches being loudly applauded. Several vocal selections were admirably rendered, the Premier contributing to the enjoyment with a capital song. The gathering continued to an early hoar in the morning, and the Kawakawa people left quite charmed by the geniality of the first man in the land. " Very few hours were devoted to slumber, and a start was made for Waiomio to meet the Natives as arranged on the previous evening. Accompanying the Premier were Messrs. B. M. Houston, M.H.8., J. S. Clendon, S.M., and Goffe, Native interpreter. A short drive brought the settlement into sight, and as the carriages rounded the bend in the hills the Native powhiri of welcome rose in wailing accents from a group of aged women, who could be seen in the distance gesticulating and waving the visitors on. The meeting took place in a fine large hall, and the Premier and guests were accommodated with chairs at the end of the building. An aisle was partitioned off, and on either side reclined the Natives, to the number of fifty, all following the business with the keenest interest. Amongst those present were some very old Maoris, with fine intelligent-looking countenances, despite the close network of tattoo-marks. These men were all warriors who had participated in the battles of the Hone Heke war, and had responded to the warcry in many a fierce fight. The Natives belonged to the Ngatihiui, a subtribe of the Ngapuhi. " The Premier opened the proceedings by stating he would be willing to listen to any grievances, as he wished to ascertain the Native mind. This invitation was not accepted with such readiness as might have been expected. Two chiefs, Wiremu Pomare and Marsh Brown, expressed great pleasure at the visit of the Premier and the Hon. J. Carroll, but intimated they had nothing to say. They invited the Premier to attend a large meeting which was to be held at Gisborne shortly, and at which representatives from every tribe would take part. " Mr. Seddon was very pleased and delighted to find the Natives so satisfied with their lot that they had nothing to say but words of welcome. They must be a contented people, because if they did not complain they must be a well-satisfied and happy community. During this tour he had held many meetings, but they were the first to assure him (the Premier) that there were no grievances to be ventilated. Mr. Seddon urged them to state their complaints, as they could get no redress other than through Parliament. Outside meetings would do no good, and if they hoped to get relief that way they would be relying on a broken reed. The Hon. J. Carroll spoke in a similar strain, good-naturedly chaffing the Natives on the total absence of grievances. "To use a vulgar expression, this ' fetched' the members of the Ngatihiuis. Wiremu Pomare said the Government was well aware of their grievances. The Native-land laws were too stringent —they wanted something more simple, and less involved. The dog-tax was also pressing heavily upon them. They would discuss the various matters later on, and submit their complaints in writing. The Premier promised to give them careful consideration, and the meeting then terminated. " On returning to Kawakawa no time was lost, and the Premier was soon en route to Waimate, where more Natives were to be met. This settlement lies in an opposite direction to Whangarei, and, once outside the township, the difference in the roads was very remarkable. We were bowling on a fine hard surface, perfectly even, with bridge and culverts in excellent order. This state of affairs was beyond comprehension until some gentle inquiries elicited the significant fact that all the County Councillors lived about that part of the country. All the mystery vanished after that explanation, and attention was directed to the view. The übiquitous mountain-range bounded the vision on the left, being intersected by numerous ravines, in which dark-green pungas grew in profusion. Away on the other side stretched good valley-country. The range at last crossed the path, and had to be surmounted. Scrubby land, with occasional kahikatea patches, followed, until a sudden bend, like the turn of a kaleidoscope, revealed a beautiful transformation. Away at our feet lay the grand estate of Pakoraka, the home of the Messrs. Williams. Fine grassy paddocks, dotted with hundreds of sheep, a large residence cosily nestling in a clump of familiar English trees, presented a pleasing contrast to the dreary waste. The property is chiefly composed of rich soil, and through this we sped for several miles. The country was more or less cultivated after this, and along the road many evidences of former Maori occupation were visible. Hills, terraced and surrounded by earthern ramparts, were all that remained to bear record of the stirring times of days long past, and of the ingenuity and capabilities of the Maoris when the spade was an unknown implement in the land. " On arrival at the Courthouse at Waimate no Natives were to be found, the notice of the intended visit having evidently been too short. It had also rained heavily during the morning, and the . Natives, not knowing the Hon. E. J. Seddon, had probably thought the inclemency would deter him. Turning back, however, several Maoris were met on horseback, and an adjournment was made to Spencer's Hotel, some two miles distant, where luncheon was served. Some dozen Natives were present, and they spoke to the Premier on personal matters of grievance only, reserving their most important subjects for the big meeting at Waima on the next day. They one and all welcomed the Premier, expressing great pleasure at having him amongst them. Mr. Seddon listened to their lengthy explanations and grievances, and then requested that they should be put in writing, so as to receive careful attention. This the Natives promised to do, well satisfied with the result of the proceedings. They were then addressed by the Hon. J. Carroll in their own tongue, and dispersed after a friendly handshake all round. A return was made to Kawakawa, and preparations completed for a long journey to Taheke on the morrow. " Sunday, the day usually associated in most minds with quiet repose, was not to be one of rest for the Premier, and soon after breakfast the party started on the forty-mile drive in two conveyances, accompanied by Mr. J. S. Clendon, S.M. The route was the same as on the previous day for the first fifteen miles, and then branched off towards Ohaeawai. On approaching Pakaraka 15— G. 1.

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we were joined by a very ancient, though pleasant, old Maori, on a staunch black pony. This was Wiripiri Hongo, one of Hone Heke's principal fighting-men, who at seventy-five years of age was starting on a fifty-mile ride, besides having twenty-four hours previously traversed over ten leagues. This venerable warrior had had some stirring experiences. He belonged to the Arawa Tribe, in the Waikato, but when a boy was taken by the Ngapuhis, with whom he advanced to manhood. His prowess at warfare soon became conspicuous, and he acted in the capacity of drill-instructor. He was prominently engaged in all the big battles of the Hone Heke war, taking a leading part at Buapekapeka, Ohaewai, Kororareka, and several other skirmishes. The fine old fellow fought some of his battles over again, telling us how at Ohaewai 122 British sailors were mowed down in ten minutes while attempting to invade the pa by charging. The Maoris were securely intrenched in earthen pits, removed from all danger of shot and shell, and had every opportunity to indulge in sharp-shooting. This foolish mistake in trying to dislodge the Natives so well protected resulted in awful slaughter to the European forces. The Maoris lost nine men, and the death-roll throughout the whole of the war was only sixty-seven. It may be remembered that a considerable amount of controversy took place over an incident which occurred at Ohaewai. It has been asserted by many that a seaman captured during the fight was subsequently burnt alive in order to propitiate the heathen gods. On being questioned, our battered companion said he did not remember such an act of barbarism, but admitted that portions of the body of a dead officer were cut off and burnt in the celebrating of some incantations. Another Native, who as a young man had been deputed to collect the dead after the fight, told us that the sailor had not been tortured alive. The gruesome story arose through the remains of the unfortunate fellow having been used as an illumination to enable the Natives to work at night. They discovered the body and piled kauri-gum on the top, thus going through the process of cremation. Many acts of heathenism were perpetrated, however, and it was chiefly owing to this reversion to superstition that Hone Heke abandoned the fight. At the commencement of the war he had emphatically stated that Christianity was to be strictly adhered to, and the many backslidings thoroughly disheartened and discouraged him, and eventually caused him to wash his hands of the whole affair. '" In passing through the district a stop was made to inspect the scene of the great fight. A church is now erected on the spot, but much of the original palisading is still standing. The pa was 200 to 300 yards square, and offered an impenetrable retreat. Mr. Clendon, who as a boy watched the attack from some scrub, pointed out the positions of the troops and the guns, and how the shots and shell passed right over the pa without doing any damage to the inmates. Hone Heke was lying inland, wounded, at that time, and on the second night following the battle the Natives evacuated the pa and proceeded into the interior. The Native preacher showed us a portion of one of the six-pounders. It was left by the Europeans, and when discovered by the Maoris was filled up with powder and pebbles, and burst. " After dinner at Ohaewai the journey was continued through great tracts of Native lands. Kaikohe, a thriving settlement, was quickly passed, and in the valley we saw thousands of acres of first-class land. This is said to be as good as any in the colony, and is still uncultivated. The road after this began to jolt and threaten destruction to the vehicles, at places being strewn with great masses of rock. It led into another valley, through which ran one of the streams emptying into the Hokianga Harbour. Taheke was reached about 4 o'clock, and a stop was made there for the night. The Maoris' horses, which were to convey the party to Omapere, arrived shortly after, and the little place was soon labouring under quite an unusual amount of excitement. A start was made early on the next morning, the horses travelling over a road that was impassable for wheeled traffic. By the time the head of the valley leading to the settlement at Waima was in the near vicinity the party had swollen into an imposing and picturesque cavalcade. "Warning of the Premier's approach had been sent ahead, and soon the poiohiri came floating through the valley. Numerous camp-fires betokened extensive preparations, and men, women, and children were to be seen in great numbers. On dismounting, every Native person, to the number of nearly two hundred, formed in the two sides of a square, and were each shaken by the hand. This duty performed, all adjourned to the large meeting-house. The gathering there was in every way satisfactory, and was the largest and most representative addressed by the Premier since leaving Wellington. The chiefs of every tribe in the North were present, the two principal hapus being the Ngapuhis and Te Earawa. The initial proceedings were of a very impressive character, and showed how much importance the Natives attached to the korero. Ec Tetai, the greatest chief of the Te Earawa Tribe, welcomed the Premier and the Hon. J. Carroll in very poetical metaphor, concluding with a song of welcome. Then was revived one of the ancient incantations, which was sung with tremendous vigour by the older men, and was accompanied by a steady stamp. It was a soul-stirring performance, holding one spell-bound. Words of welcome were spoken by all the leading chiefs, who one and all expressed great delight at the presence of the Premier. The Hon. Mr. Seddon then delivered a very able and forcible speech, which visibly affected his auditors, and which elicited frequent applause. Not a word that fell from the Premier's lips was lost, and subsequent events showed that careful note had been taken of all that had been said. " An adjournment was then made to a large whare, where a splendid dinner was provided. Over a hundred sat down to a feast that spoke volumes for the culinary abilities of the wahines of the pa, and indeed the feast came as a surprise to all the Europeans. An added pleasure was given to the repast by the singing of several young fellows, who rendered several familiar old tunes. There were voices of great promise among the group, and all blended in perfect harmony and time and with an indescribable effect. Bursts of applause arose from the astonished pakehas after each contribution, and needless to say encores were absolutely insisted upon. Business seemed very dry and dull after this unique entertainment, and it lasted all the afternoon and right into the evening. After ascertaining that the Native Land Purchase and Acquisition Bill had become law, one Native rose to his feet with a screed of questions covering several quires of foolscap. The

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Premier's replies to the first half-dozen questions were so satisfactory and effective that the remainder were abandoned. Several other matters, including the dog-tax, were settled to mutual satisfaction, and Re Tetai then intimated that after serious deliberation the Natives intended to draft a Bill, which would be submitted to Parliament through their member, Hone Heke. He asked the Premier and Hon. J. Carroll to agree to sanction the measure. The Premier explained that the Bill would be presented to Parliament, and if good and wise would be accepted and become law, but if evil would be rejected. Several questions of land-disputes were discussed, and the Natives promised to put their grievances in writing and forward them to Wellington, where, the Premier promised, they would receive careful consideration. In his address the Premier announced very plainly that the Government was determined that settlement should be no longer blocked by the Native-land difficulty, and he urged the Natives to have the titles ascertained and the land surveyed. The party again partook of the hospitality of the Maoris, and the proceedings then took the form of a musical evening. The gathering was one that would probably never occur in a lifetime again, and it was brought to a conclusion by the combined singing of ' Auld Lang Syne ' and the National Anthem. We had been royally entertained, and the Natives only regretted that the Premier could not stop over night at the settlement. At 9 o'clock everybody was in the saddle, and a sixteen-mile ride in the moonlight brought us to Bawene at midnight. "During the short stay, and before embarking on the river-steamer 'Te Aroha,' a craft formerly well known on the Waitemata, a deputation of the settlers of the district waited on the Premier and petitioned his good services on behalf of the roads of the district. They thought the honourable gentleman was cognisant of their requirements in this respect, having travelled over the roads himself. If the Government could take over the control of the roads and have them metalled the residents would be everlastingly grateful. Mr. Seddon examined several of the balance-sheets, and found that the cost of administering the district was nearly 75 per cent, greater than the expenditure on the roads themselves. The discussion disclosed the fact that settlement and progress were being retarded for want of roads and the miserable condition of those already in existence. Some amusing features were related even in connection with this heartrending state of affairs. One County Councillor, replying to the Premier's advice to take full advantage of the rates and the means of collecting the same, said they had a unique difficulty to contend with. The settler pointed out his crop of, perhaps, pumpkins or melons, and invited the collector to take his rates out in produce. He had raised the stuff off the land and could do nothing with it, and he would like the Council to try their hand at disposing of it. He had no money, and if his offer were not acceptable, well—a shrug of the shoulders was very expressive. Mr. Seddon inquired if the Council wanted a grant for the construction of a storehouse also, but was answered in the negative. The deputation assured the Premier that there were miles of good land which would be quickly settled if roads were only provided. The roads they had were utterly inadequate, and were preventing the settlement of excellent country. The assistance of the Government to improve the roads to several specified townships was asked, and the Premier said he would glean the fullest information of the subject, and see what could be placed on the estimates next session. One or two minor matters were also dealt with. " The party then left by the 'Te Aroha' for the Hokianga Heads, being accorded a hearty sendoff by the Bawene residents, who assembled on the wharf to bid them good-bye. The steam down the river towards the Heads, although very short, was extremely pleasant, and our pleasure was further enhanced by the hearty welcome accorded by Mr. Webster on arrival at the small jetty at Heads Point. Mr. Webster, who is one of the oldest settlers in Hokianga, having been an intimate friend of the great warrior Tamati Waka Nene, and a participator in all the big wars that placed the lives of the hardy pioneers of civilisation in the North in the greatest jeopardy, has a lovely estate in this part of the district, and at his residence the party was very hospitably entertained. A very refreshing luncheon was discussed with great zest, and the fruit at the table was an eloquent unspoken testimony of the capabilities of the country for fruit-producing. Pears, grapes, figs were there in profusion, very luscious, and matured to perfection. A stroll through the fine orchards was also greatly enjoyed. Mr. Webster has several fine clumps of bananas, and the fruit was almost as good as the Island production. The remainder of the stay was devoted to inspecting the treasures and curios which Mr. Webster in the course of his varied exciting peregrinations has collected in great numbers. Some are very rare and valuable. We saw the cup which Her Majesty the Queen presented to Tamati Waka Hene in recognition of his services on behalf of the Europeans during the critical period of their lives, when Hone Heke was on the warpath. The first petition ever framed in North Auckland, with the original signatures attached, is in Mr. Webster's keeping, and several manuscript almanacs and shipping-lists of 1840 and 1841, together with many unique and valuable documents, were spread out for our inspection. A very interesting visit was terminated early in the afternoon, and the journey through the wilds was resumed, the company being mounted on some very fresh steeds. The course lay along the beach for a couple of miles, past Oinapere and close to the bar at the Heads, over which the surf was breaking in great masses of white foam, and with a dull thunderous roar. The track then led across a low range of hills, fringed with fern, tea-tree, and native bush, and still skirting the coast-line. The road had the usual clay surface, being rutty at places, and, although affording decent travelling at this time, must be horrible for traffic in the winter months. " The party was cantering past the Native settlement of Waimamaku, having made no arrangements to call in there, when the ringing of the school-bell gave warning that the Natives were desirous of having an audience with the Prime Minister, who was seen in that region for the first time in the history of the colony. The Premier was received outside by the chiefs, and an adjournment was then made to the schoolroom. The subsequent proceedings were of a gratifying character, and showed that some of the advice tendered by Mr. Seddon on previous occasions'had proved acceptable. The object of the gathering was broached by Praia Toi, Chairman of the

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School Committee, who said that the tribes of the district were desirous of having the education extended to the Sixth Standard. At present a child could not advance beyond the Fourth Standard at the school, and the parents would not send them away to Te Aute or St. Stephen's on account of the dangers of sickness and death. Mr. Seddon said he entirely approved of this plan, and would discuss the matter with the Minister of Education. The episode had afforded him much pleasure, even more than had the meeting at Waima. Mr. Seddon concluded his remarks amidst loud applause and cordial smiles. At the Premier's request, the children were marshalled, and rendered several songs very prettily. Two of the female scholars also read passages in capital style, showing how careful and efficient had been the tuition of the head teacher, Mr. Winkelmann. The children were very healthy and intelligent, and appeared to take a great interest in their studies. Some really excellent specimens of drawing were inspected by Mr. Seddon, the maps being especially good. The honourable gentleman again expressed his pleasure at being present, and finished by exhorting the children to resolutely pursue their studies, and attend regularly. " In the saddle once more, a sharp canter brought the meandering valley-road to an end, and soon a sullen and continuous roar announced the surf-beaten shore to be rapidly drawing near. The outlet of the valley closely resembled an American canon, the hills being high and precipitous, and almost adjacent. Through this the thunder of the waves reverberated and rolled, making a deafening noise. On. emerging, a glorious scene presented itself to our enraptured gaze. Away to the left, and unbroken as far as the eye could discern, lay a magnificent stretch of sand, bounded on the landward side by diminutive cliffs, and receding at an even grade into the wild, surging waters. CJp this beach great solid walls of living liquid came charging, curling, and leaping in their potency and strength, and threatening to overwhelm everything within reach, only to be transformed into a white seething cauldron, and repeat the process ad infmiium. The moon had ascended over the ranges, and far at sea the cloud-banked horizon was distinctly visible. It was a truly wonderful picture, holding one spellbound and enchanted. Along this sand, accompanied by the angry music of the waves, the travellers rode for a couple of miles, and then, making a detour over a kind.of sand-dune, pulled up at Messrs. Jarvie Brothers' Kawerua Hotel, in full view of the vast heaving waters of the Southern Pacific. Here the night's rest was nxuch appreciated, as on the previous evenings business had absorbed the greater portion of the hours usually devoted to slumber. A dip in the ' briny' and a rough-and-tumble in the surf, was extremely exhilarating in the morning, and vastly revived our languishing energies. Several gumdiggers arrived at the stores to transact business before our departure, and a chat with one revealed the fact that men in that locality were in comfortable circumstances. The majority were making between £1 10s. and £2 per week, although many were holding back their gum for an improvement in the market. If a man could not make a living he was, to use the expression of the informant, a ' thorough loafer.' Many of the Austrians, whose influx caused such a stir recently, are camped in this part of the colony, being located about six miles beyond Kawerua. Some little time ago nearly eighty of these aliens were in the district, but now the number has lessened considerably. They live very frugally, work from daylight to dark, and return to the land of their birth as soon as a sum of money is amassed. None are cultivating the soil, but merely extracting the gum-wealth. They always fraternise and partake of one common meal. Several of the men in this district are climbers—they scale the giants of the forest and gather the gum that has exuded from the trunk and branches. A tree that has been untouched will yield a couple of hundredweight of the valuable commodity, and handsomely remunerate the searcher for his day's labour. Such trees are very rare now-a-days. " To horse yet again, and the first six miles of the journey was over the unrivalled West Coast beach. The sand was perfectly level, and around the horses' legs surged and roared a confused mass of breakers. It was hard to leave this wild solitary grandeur, but the track struck inland and it had to be followed. Through winding scrubby country and along the mountain-path, we at length plunged into a heavily-timbered bush. Just before leaving the open land a Maori funeral cortege was passed pursuing its painful way down the steep mountain-side. The remains, which were those of a little boy, were carried on a litter by four stalwart fellows, and the relatives followed behind on horseback. This mournful procession was en route from Opunake to Waimamaku —a weary tramp of thirty miles. It showed the tender respect the Maoris have for their dead. The boy belonged to Waimamaku, and he was to be interred there, the trouble and exertion being no consideration. Things were now made somewhat uncomfortable by rain, which started to fall in thick showers. On either side of the track lay dense masses of native vegetation of every description, with here and there great kauris and ratas towering above their lesser brethren. Perns, with their delicate filagree-work, fringed the path, the whole forming a picture beautiful beyond conception or description. This virgin forest stretched on either side, and it was patent to the most inexperienced eye that the soil was of exceptional quality. The growth was very prolific, and it was an easy task to imagine this country soon thick with happy, prosperous homesteads. Nature has been bountiful indeed, and the soil is wreathed in smiles without the customary tickling by human hands. It only needs a substitution of the vegetable matter to complete the transformation. A strong contrast met the vision on emerging from the region of bush. Pern and scrub once more reigned supreme, although the land was still of a dark, rich nature. A stop was made at a half-way store until the rain ceased, and here an impromptu deputation of diggers, who had also sought shelter, met the Premier. They were very anxious to know if something could not be done to prevent the ' ring ' from depressing the gum trade, and also to stop the influx of Austrians. They said it was very hard to make a living at present. Mr. Seddon spoke of the proposal to settle the gumdigger on the land, so that he might become a useful settler. Mr. Seddon remarked that the gumdiggers had been very reckless in the past, and were now commencing to feel the effects of their improvidence. One hardy old man replied that a person working up to his waist in a swamp needed something to keep the cold out. There were very few parts of the world he was not acquainted with, and he had tasted some very decent liquors at Home and in foreign lands. He had never tasted whiskey in New

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Zealand, however, and he had been in the Auckland Province for many years. He was firmly convinced that the vile concoctions the diggers had to swallow emanated from the druggists' stores of Auckland. He was offered a 'wee drop 'of the real stuff by a member of the party, and the happy smile that overspread his countenance betokened peace, perfect peace, at last. He could die happily now, and the other diggers who sampled were also very eulogistic in referring to the ' mountain dew.' " The sky had cleared by this time, and the party pushed on again. From the brow of the hill the peaceful waters of the Pacific could be discerned, and then a magnificent kauri-forest was entered. Enormous trees, rising perpendicularly to a great height, branchless and flawless, lined the path and mountain-side, and afforded endless interest. Millions of feet of valuable timber were scattered over the country for miles around, and will remain so for years to come. Here and there huge ratas intruded upon the gaze, and numerous rata-vines, clutching with their death-dealing embrace the trunks of other trees preparatory to becoming the tree itself, were to be seen in all stages of development. This vast kauri-forest accompanied us to the head of the Kaihu Valley, which comprises some of the finest land in New Zealand. It runs away inland, and down to Dargaville, and the rich black soil can hardly be bottomed. The railway-line extends to Opanake, where the Premier and the Hon. J. Carroll were welcomed by Mr. Dargaville, and Mr. Harding, Chairman of the County Council. The seventeen miles of railway which traverses this beautiful block of land soon came to an end, and Dargaville, thickly dotted with houses, announced that bush regions, barren lands, and isolated habitations had been left behind. No kai had been partaken of since leaving Kawerua, and the evening meal was consequently much appreciated. Immediately afterwards business was proceeded with, the executive committee of the gumdiggers first engaging attention. " The chairman of this representative committee asked that the Government would employ diggers during the present depression. He suggested that roads should be started to Crown lands, which could then be opened for settlement. Many of the diggers were very willing to settle, and if they had the gum-lands to assist them, that would serve in lieu of capital. They wanted some legislation, enacted to prevent the influx of aliens and unemployed from the other colonies. The chairman assured the Premier that the Austrians merely came to the colony to make money. They said themselves that they would not settle here, but meant to return to their own country. He thought a license should be issued, and only to persons who had been in the colony for twelve months. A royalty should also be put on gum, but the digger would be glad to be free to buy and sell where he pleased. He complained bitterly of the truck system, which he said was pressing cruelly on the men. A royalty of Is. 3d. could go to the County Council (he said) for rates, to give diggers a vote as ratepayers, and a 2s. 3d. rate could go to form a benefit fund for the diggers. He said many men were in a state of destitution on the gumfields, and at present the prospect for the winter looked very black indeed. The highest rate of wages was about £1 ss. a week, and it took an able-bodied man to make that amount. "Mr. Seddon said he was considering the advisability of opening up the land for settlement and reserving the gum-lands to enable the settlers to procure some capital. (Applause.) If there was any roadmaking that would promote settlement it was desilable that the work should be proceeded with. This would absorb a lot of labour from the gumfields. He referred to the difficulty of dealing with the alien question. Once the men were here we could not control their methods of gaining a livelihood. That would be unconstitutional, and would involve a serious difficulty between England and foreign nations. In connection with Mr. King's remarks on the gum-market, the Agent-General had been instructed to inquire in England, on the Continent, and in America, and to endeavour to ascertain the cause of the present low prices. The Government would then know how to act. (Applause.) The truck system had been already dealt with by the Government, Mr. Seddon remarked, but that carried on in connection with the gumfields was very difficult to deal with. More agreement between employer and employe was necessary. " The Premier said that as regards the main body of the gumdiggers the only thing the Government can do, as far as he could see at present, was to put in hand the different roads for which money had been voted, and put the married men who are now on the gumfields, as far as practicable, at constructing these roads. He stated that he was communicating with the AgentGeneral to ascertain the value of gums in the American, British, and Continental markets, and purposes purchasing samples of the different gums and sending them to him so as to assist him in ascertaining the Home value. This proposal greatly pleased the executive of the Gumdiggers' Association. " The Premier told them plainly that there is no hope of the Government purchasing the gum, and they admitted it was impracticable. In view of permanently settling the people in the vicinity of the gumfields, the Premier said he intended to consult with the Minister of Lands as to throwing open more good land for settlement near the gumfields, and at the same time reserving a portion of the gum-bearing land for the exclusive use of those settlers, so that a portion of their time would be engaged in improving their land and another portion of their time could be devoted to digging for gum, which would stand to them as capital and would help them to ultimately become independent of the industry. In support of this scheme the Premier found that a large number of the settlers in the several districts he has passed through attribute their success to having been able to go and dig for gum occasionally, and by that means pay for their flour, sugar, and tea. " The Premier said it was evident the Government would have to consider the advisability of resuming the ownership of all gum-lands, a statement which was received with great favour. The whole question, he promised, would be fully considered by the Cabinet at the conclusion of the tour. It would be premature to say anything at present. " The deputation thanked Mr. Seddon with acclamation, and wisked him every success, and long life to the Government.

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" The Chairman of the County Council then saw the Premier in regard to several local matters. He urged the construction of a road to open the two blocks of land lying between the Maunganui Bluff and the Kaihu Valley, now owned by the Crown. This was the best land in the colony, and suitable for small settlements, and would be eagerly taken up if placed on the market. A sum of £2,000 has already been voted by the Government, but this was a mere drop in the bucket. It was explained that some eleven miles of road had already been made, and Mr. Seddou said that land held by the Government and suitable for settlement would be opened up at the earliest opportunity. Mr. Mueller corroborated the Chairman's statement that the block comprised some of the finest land in the colony. " Business was not concluded until 11 p.m., and then the party—accompanied by Mr. E. Thompson, M.H.E., who rode over from Whangarei—embarked on the steamer ' Durham ' for Pahi. The vessel spiled down the Wairoa Eiver, one of the largest in New Zealand, and navigable for nearly a hundred miles, past Aratapu, where several vessels were loading, and into the Kaipara Harbour, where the ocean swell soon made its presence felt. It was just about daylight when the ' Durham' rounded the sandbank which runs to opposite the signal-station, and once more started to thread its way inland in a north-east direction. This estuary is deep and wide, and, with the others in the vicinity, abounds in mullet and fish of every species. The rising sun tinged the cliffs with gold, and up the channel the scene was much prettier than is usual with tidal rivers. The vessel made fast to the Pahi jetty opposite the timber-mill, and during the forenoon the travellers strolled and pulled about, visiting the district. " Intelligence had arrived that settlers from Matakohe and the neighbourhood were coming down in a launch, and early in the afternoon they had an audience with the Hon. Mr. Seddon in the hotel. The matters touched on were all purely local affairs. The Paparoa settlers drew the Premier's attention to a vote that had been passed for a road between Paparoa and Waikeke. They knew £350 had been passed, but could never get it, and a contract which had been accepted could not be proceeded with. The vote, if not availed of, lapsed at the end of March, and they were very anxious. The Premier pointed out that when the Government had borrowed capital, the money was given'immediately after its appropriation, but now they had to wait until the revenue came to hand. He assured the settlers that the vote would not lapse, and was heartily thanked for this good news. They also wished that a policeman might be appointed to the district, as sheep-steal-ing was very rife, and the settlers were utterly powerless to cope with the nuisance. Mr. Seddon promised to bring the matter under the notice of the proper department, and see what could be done in the direction desired. The deputation also pointed out the excessive railway freights. The steamer proprietors were prepared to make a reduction if the railways would do likewise. Not half of the traffic of the district went by the Helensville Eailway, on account of the high rates. It was diverted to the East Coast steamers. Mr. Seddon pointed out that the Eailway Commissioners would be up in that direction shortly, and he advised the settlers to interview and discuss the question with them. He quite agreed, himself, that the rates were too high, and he would make strong recommendations to the Commissioners on the subject. (Applause.) The Premier and the Hon. Carroll were entertained at dinner by the settlers, who also gave the party a hearty send-off when the steamer left for Curtis Point. " A stay was made en route to visit the canning establishment of Messrs. Masefield Brothers, and the ' Durham ' arrived at her destination early in the afternoon. Horses were waiting to convey the party to Maungatoroto, some six miles distant, where the County Council and a large representation of the settlers of the district were waiting to receive the Prime Minister. All extended a hearty welcome, and the Premier, after a refreshing meal, received deputations. The Council, in reference to the road from the East to West Coast, asked for a grant of £500 to complete the work, and Mr. Seddon promised to inquire and see what could be done. A vote of £650 had been passed (continued the Council) for the Paparoa-Waikeke Eo.id, but the sum of £350 had never been received. Some contracts were being delayed pending some information of this money. Mr. Seddon said he would put the matter before the department when he got to Wellington, but in the meantime he assured them the vote would not lapse. He explained how the Government had to wait until the revenue came to hand. The interviewers heartily thanked the Premier for his kindly assurances, and again expressed the greatest pleasure at seeing him in the district. " In the cool of early morning the Hon. Mr. Seddon rode over to the estate of Mr. Pord, and was shown over the beautiful farm by that gentleman. It consists of tine land, undulating, well-watered, and tapped by the Otarnatea Eiver, a stream navigable at high tide to opposite the place in question. Some four years ago these 2,000 to 3,000 acres of land were chiefly underbush, and had absorbed a very large amount of capital, the failures of the previous owners, in fact, having made everybody else in the vicinity sceptical of the place ever becoming a thriving, remunerative homestead. But the application of labour-and co-operation has been attended with totally different results. About four years ago Mr. Ford took over the place, being assisted in his exertions by relatives only, the obligations binding the one to the other being of a moral nature only. Now the land is almost cleared, under grass, and supporting the first flock of sheep north of Auckland. The few hundred sheep at Mr. Eord's arrival have multiplied sixfold, and a healthy stock of cattle is also steadily increasing. The property has been cleared and grassed, fences and stockyards, pens, and shearing-.sheds have been erected, the live stock has been fostered; indeed, everything in this record of success has been the result of the exclusive labours of the Eord family. " Once on the water the run to Port Albert was quickly accomplished, and the settlers were mustered in force to welcome their distinguished visitor. The Premier and party visited the cricket-ground and watched the match for some time, and then proceeded on to Wellsford, where the magnificent vineries of Messrs. Levet and Sons were inspected. In the evening the Premier received deputations in the public hall, the building being crowded. Mr. Shepherd, president of the Agricultural Society, drew attention to the railway freights, which he thought could be reduced,

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not only in the interests of the settlers, but of the railway revenue. The charges were so excessive that fruit could not be sent down to Auckland, but was allowed to waste in the district. He thought the Government should influence the Eailway Commissioners to reduce the freight by 25 per cent. Mr. Seddon quite agreed that the charges were too high, not only for fruit, but for timber and other products. (Hear, hear.) He believed that if the timber freights were reduced it would be a great relief to the producers, and would mean full trucks instead of empty ones. (Applause.) The railways had been constructed to promote settlement, and he advised the settlers to interview the Commissioners when they sat at Helensville. He would make very strong recommendations to the Commissioners on the subject, and he hoped the time would not be far distant when a member of the Ministry would be able to speak and act directly for the people. (Applause.) Mr. T. A. Gubb urged that the fruitgrowers should have some protection from foreign pests and insects. He suggested that all fruit-trees and fruits should be quarantined and examined by an inspector before being allowed ashore. The Premier thought, himself, that strict scrutiny should take place, and every endeavour made to prevent the introduction of pests. The Agricultural Department was going into the question, and he would ask the Minister of Agriculture to take effective steps to prevent the introduction of pests. (Applause.) " The Chairman of the County Council, Mr. Gubb, complained of the cost of the licensing election, and the Premier concurred with this idea. He would try and have a vote put on the estimates to meet the case. The Council were also in the fog respecting the disposal of some votes for road-making purposes, and the Premier explained matters very clearly and satisfactorily. " After the interviews had concluded, the Chairman said the settlers were very grateful for the visit of the Prime Minister, and he heartily thanked him for the lucid manner in which questions had been explained. As a result of the interview his sentiments had considerably changed, and he called for three cheers, which invitation was heartily responded to. " The night was spent at Port Albert, and as soon as the fog lifted off the river the steamer got under weigh for Helensville, which was reached shortly after noon. The Premier was shortly waited on by the Waitemata County Council, headed by Captain McMahon, Chairman. The latter said that they had borrowed £1,000 at 6 per cent, with a 4-per-cent. sinking-fund, and they wanted to know if they could have the loan altered under the present Loans for Local Bodies Act, paying 5 per cent, for twenty-six years. The Premier said he would go fully into the matter and see what course could be taken. In connection with a vote made last session for the Wainui and Kaukapakapa Road, this amount had been found insufficient, and they asked whether the Government would grant further assistance. It had cost them £650 to acquire the road alone. Mr. Seddon promised to look into the matter, and he would endeavour to do all that was possible. " Mr. Eeynolds spoke on the high charges for timber freights on the railways. The railway management so far had been very unsatisfactory, and the freights were altogether prohibitive. Mr. McLeod referred to the charges on firewood. The rate was £1 9s. 4d. a truck, and he maintained it ought not to be above 15s. If the freights on firewood were reduced some settlers would clear the land and forward their firewood to town, and this would eventually lead to an increase in the population of the district. " Mr. Seddon said the whole question was one of tariff, and, as he had said before, he did not believe that the tariff should be so high and be the means of strangling local industries. In his opinion too much timber was burned which might have been brought into town and turned into capital. (Applause.) Timber was shut out from the market by high tariffs, and so was the coal. That 120,000 tons of coal were imported into a colony teeming with this article seemed to him to be absolutely monstrous. (Applause.) He hoped these things would soon be rectified. The Commissioners were coming round soon, and he would like some representations made to them. He considered that the arguments submitted to him so far had been so convincing that a change was absolutely necessary. The hard-and-fast-rules that applied to large towns were not applicable to sparsely-settled districts, and should be relaxed. (Applause.) Mr. McLeod thought that Mr. Eonayne, one of the new Commissioners, was the right man in the right place. "In reply to a question by Captain MacMahon, if anything could be done in connection with charitable aid, the Premier said it brought the whole question of local government into consideration. After several large questions were settled he thought the Government would have to consider the question of local government. The present law in connection with charitable aid was very unsatisfactory, and needed revising. (Applause.) He thought the present law had killed voluntary contributions. The Council then heartily thanked the Premier for the kind manner in which he had discussed their grievances and his assurance of sympathy and help. " In the evening the residents of Helensville did honour to the Hon. E. J. Seddon by entertaining him at a social. Considering the short notice given the arrangements were very excellent, and about forty couple assembled. A few dances were indulged in, and all then adjourned to the supper-room. The toasts of ' The Premier,' ' The Hon. J. Carroll,' and ' The Government' were honoured with great enthusiasm. The remainder of the evening was devoted to music, and a very enjoyable gathering broke up shortly before midnight. " On Sunday afternoon the Premier and party left for Kaukapakapa, to make a break on the long journey to Warkworth. Early on Monday morning saw all mounted and on the way to the East Coast. A detour was made to visit the tunnel in connection with the Kaukapakapa railway extension towards Whangarei. The Government borings had proved altogether misleading, the tunnel, instead of being through firm ground, being for the greater part through soft ground, and, although the brickwork has been strengthened and an invert put in, disastrous slips have occurred. After inspecting this work the journey was continued, and Warkworth was reached towards evening, the road we had travelled over having been the worst encountered during the whole of the tour. It was simply a succession of very steep hills. A deputation from the Eodney County Council waited on the Premier in connection with the roads. Mr. Leeds asked that something might be done to

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improve the Matakana East Boad. It would open up Crown and Native lands. It was simply a track at present, and could not be used even by a sleigh. Since the repeal of the rating on Crown lands the Council had been losing £60 a year, and they could do nothing. " Mr. Seddon said he was satisfied, himself, that the roads in the district were extremely bad. So far as the Government could, with the revenue at command, they would promote and assist settlement. This brought him to the question of local bodies not having sufficient revenue. He thought the Government would have to consider the question of relieving the local bodies of some of this work or giving them more revenue. (Hear, hear.) He believed that Crown land should be rated, as improvements of others enhanced their value. Sir Harry Atkinson had repealed the rate, but he thought its resumption would have to be considered. (Applause.)" Approximate Cost of Paper.— Preparation, not given; printing (1,850 copies), i>B3 ss.

By Authority: Samuel Costall, Government Printer, Wellington.—lB94. Price 2s.]

TE NGAKAU, Representing Tawhaiois Government in Upper House.

HON, R.J. SEDDON, Premier and Native Minister.

TANA TE WAHAROA, Premier, Tawhaiois Government.