PETITION OF RAILWAY EMPLOYES. (REPORT OF PUBLIC PETITIONS COMMITTEE ON PETITION OF W. HILL AND OTHERS, TOGETHER WITH MINUTES OF EVIDENCE AND APPENDICES.)

Appendix to the Journals of the House of Representatives, 1882 Session I, I-01b

I.—lb.

1882. NEW ZEALAND.

PETITION OF RAILWAY EMPLOYES. (REPORT OF PUBLIC PETITIONS COMMITTEE ON PETITION OF W. HILL AND OTHERS, TOGETHER WITH MINUTES OF EVIDENCE AND APPENDICES.)

Presented to the House of Representatives, 6th September, and ordered to be printed.

REPORT. Having carefully considered the petitioners' statements, and the admissions made by Mr. Maxwell, the General Manager of the New Zealand Railways, the Committee are of opinion that the petitioners have shown sufficient cause for an inquiry into the grievances complained of, and recommend that the petition and the evidence taken be forwarded to the Government, with the view of a fair and impartial inquiry being instituted by competent persons, not being members of the Civil Service, and any reasonable cause of complaint removed. Thos. Kelly, 6th September, 1882. Chairman.

[For Mr. Maxwell's report, on which the following evidence is based, see page B.] MINUTES OF EVIDENCE.

Monday, 28th August, 1882. —(Mr. Kelly, Chairman.) Mr. Maxwell, General Manager of New Zealand Railways, examined. 1. The Chairman^] Mr. Maxwell, taking the merits of the petition, I will ask you, first, how is overtime allowed to drivers and firemen ? —Each individual case has to be considered on its merits. For example, if a man were to run out five hours and back five hours, and were to stop four hours between, he might not get the whole of the time he stopped at time and a quarter. We cannot lay down any general rule, but can only take each case by itself. If a man gets an easy day and only does half a day's work, he gets paid for a full day. The petition says that we run one day into another. lam not aware of any case in which that has been done: it is not the rule. There must be cases in which everything does not go straight when you have a large number of men stationed about the country. Von cannot adopt any regular system without exceptions. *2. There are instances given here of long hours being worked —there is a case of sixteen hours thirty-five minutes, and another of sixteen hours five minutes. Suppose a man had been on duty sixteen and a half hours, I suppose there would be a certain proportion in which he would not be working. Would he get overtime for all over ten hours ? —He might get the whole six hours. It would depend on circumstances. Gangs work ten hours a day as a rule ;if a man was on sixteen hours, and out of that he was standing for five or six hours, he would not get paid for the whole time. We endeavour to make a reasonable allowance in each case. We cannot put on two gangs to do the work, or the men would not be working half their time. If we put on one gang for the whole time we should not pay for long periods in which it was not working. 3. Do they often work such long hours as these ?—No, not as a rule. We try to keep to the normal time of working as much as possible, but there are contingencies, such as accidents and breakdowns, and so on, which cannot be foreseen : they happen every day. A special train may be called for, and there may be no means of giving it except by putting a man on for a long time. All these things break the time-scale: they are absolutely unavoidable. If there was an attempt to rule that no man should work more than ten hours on some days the services would stop altogether.

* Mr. Maxwell took exception to the time-table in the drivers' petition as misleading, and promised to call for a report, in detail from tho Locomotive Superintendent, Hurunui -Bluff, which is appended. (See page 15.)

I.—IB

2

4. Ves; it must be something like the case of a ship at sea: men may sometimes have four or five hours in which they have nothing to do ?—Ves. A man would have to oil his engine and so on when standing. The fireman or driver must be alongside, except in a station where there is a Foreman. At a large number of stations there are Foremen in charge of the engine-sheds ; and in that case, when an engine was standing there, the fireman and driver may be released entirely. 5. Then one man could be away at any place where the engine was standing for several hours?— Tes ; they arrange it between themselves, and, when the engine is in a shed where there is a Foreman, both of them can be away for a specific time. 6. How long before the engine started would they have to be back?—About half an hour. 7. Under whose authority are they in the interval ? —lt depends on where they are. If they were at a country station they would be under the Stationmaster. As far as the engine is concerned, the driver is responsible. They would not have to apply to the Stationmaster for leave for one of them to leave the engine. 8. So long as they agree between themselves about the engine, one of them can go ?—Ves, the driver would settle this ; but he would inquire of the Stationmaster whether they were wanted or not. They might have to do station or other work; in that case they would get overtime if worked. 9. Is it necessary for the proper conduct of the service that drivers or firemen should be removed to other places temporarily or permanently ?—There have been many cases in which removals were necessary, but Ido not think it will happen so often in the future. ¥e could not have avoided the removals that have taken place. We had a large number of men to get rid of, and had to put suitable men in different places. We had more men than we wanted at the time. In 1880 I went South to see into this matter, and I considered it desirable that there should be some changes. In future they will not occur to such an extent. Certainly I hope we shall get into a more settled condition in time, and so many changes will not be necessary. 10. With respect to increase of pay, are the regulations adhered to? —Tes, pretty fairly. We keep a list of the men, and increases are made subject to certain conditions as to good conduct and so on. If there is anything against a man, such as insubordination or bad conduct, he does not get an increase so soon. A man must have a clean sheet for six months to entitle him to an increase—that is, free from all punishable complaints. 11. If any serious complaint is made against a man, has he any chance of rebutting it?—Every case is inquired into, more or less. For minor offences the local officer inquires ; but if it is a serious accident, or anything of that sort, then probably all three of the sub-departments are concerned, and would be engaged in the inquiry—the traffic department, the locomotive department, and the maintenance. If a man fails to attend to his engine, and it breaks down on the road, it may be that the only person to inquire is the Foreman, and on his report, if it is right, the Locomotive Superintendent will adjudge whether the man is to be blamed or not. The cases are so numerous that there could not be a full inquiry into all the minor ones. 12. But in anything seriously affecting a man's character would he have a chance of giving his view ? —Tes, certainly; if it is a serious offence, involving a man being put down or dismissed, it would be reported to me. A man cannot be unjustly dealt with without an opportunity of inquiry, and if the circumstances are serious he can petition the Minister, and then can state the whole case, and bring up anything he has to say. Many cases go before the Minister. 13. And how does he decide ? —I think, in most of the cases I can remember now, the Minister has decided that the men have been justly dealt with. 14. And that the men were in the wrong ?—Tes. We do not like to dismiss a man if we can help it; it gives much inconvenience. 15. About an engine breaking down, is it not examined before it leaves ?—The driver is responsible for examining his engine. It is not necessarily examined by any other person. It would not do to relieve the driver of the responsibility of having his engine in order. 16. Was it not a rule of the department that it should be examined by some one else ?—No ; it is the driver's business to point out any defect. There is an inspection in the larger stations, where the Foreman examines all engines. He cannot examine every engine every day, but the drivers have to point out defects. 17. It is said here that where a man met with an accident in the execution of his duty he was formerly allowed half-pay, which is now stopped? —No; they are allowed half-pay for three months, and quarter-pay for three months more, so that the statement is not correct. These statements are very general. lam not aware of any case in which a man has been injured in the service, if from circumstances beyond his own control, who has not got his allowance. There was one ease brought before me in which I disallowed it. If the accident arose through carelessness or breaking the rules, he would not get the allowance. 18. Mr. White."] Why did you mention that there are 280 drivers in the service, seeing that this petition only comes from the South Island?—The department must be treated as a whole. I cannot consider any particular lot of men alone. I cannot make any difference between men at Invercargill and men at Auckland, if the circumstances are the same. 19. Is there any difference on the West Coast ? —Tes, a little. Greymouth and Westport are exceptionally treated. Tou cannot get men to work in those two particular places except for higher 20. Wages being higher in the South Island than in the North, you would have to pay your men in the South Island more than in the North to make their pay the same as outside pay ?—My information is that wages are pretty uniform throughout the colony. 21. Does not the return from your department show that wages are lower in the North Island than in the South ?—I think not; it is pretty uniform. In Nelson, however, some men are paid as low as ss. a day. 22. Can you say for certain that this report does not show that in the North Island wages are considerably lower than in the South ? —Speaking from information, I think not. I was struck with

3

I.—IB

the fact that in Canterbury a large number of men are paid 6s. a day. In some places it is 7s. In Nelson it is as low as 55., but that is an exception. 23. Are there not a great many in the South paid 7s. ?—Tes. 24. The majority? —I would not like to say that. Ido not think myself they should be all paid the same irrespective of what they are worth. We endeavour to put the best men to the best work and the most responsible work. 25. Is this scale strictly adhered to ?—I think so—fairly. Tou may find discrepancies. It is quite possible that men may have been overlooked. 26. Men may be underpaid through being overlooked ?—lt is quite possible. 27. When any new scale is introduced, do you not think the men should have fair notice before being reduced ? —Certainly. The scale has never been materially altered since I took charge. It is supplied to all the offices ; but I think it ought to be gazetted and made a legal document, and that every man should be able to get his rights under it. I think it should be a public document. There should be no concealment about it. I have recommended that it should be gazetted. 28. What is your opinion as to the pay of the drivers and firemen?—l think they are paid better than the great mass of the men. 29. Better than the officials —the men having charge of those drivers—the Managers, Locomotive Superintendents, and clerks ? —They are certainly better paid than the clerks. The whole of them are far better paid as a body. 30. The officials had their 10 per cent, returned ? —Not in every case. That reduction was not applied to the Railway Department in the same way as it was to other departments. The wages and salaries paid were previously on a most irregular basis. A scale was introduced so that the pay of the officials could not be put back to the former condition. They were put on a scale before the reorganization took place. 30a. Were the Civil servants in the department reduced too ?—Tou cannot draw any line as to who is and who is not a Civil servant. 31. The officials were reduced 10 per cent. Is it not a fact that they have got a rise since?— Many of them have. That does not apply to any particular class more than it does to the whole. Almost every one of them have risen two steps —guards, porters, drivers, cleaners, and firemen have all got increases—all who were not paid before to the full scale. The men have got increases in accordance with the scale. 32. Mr. Levestam ] The Manager at Nelson has been increased 25 per cent. ? —I dare say he has, but not since I had charge. 33. Mr. White.'] The Locomotive Superintendent at Christchureh has had an increase?—Tes; he is now doing the work that three men used to do. He has largely-increased work. There are 100 miles of line more than in 1880. 34. And do not the drivers do more ? —No; I think their work has been decreased. 35. Mr. Levestam.] The labour of the guards has been increased?—Tou may find guards working longer hours. 36. Mr. White.] How have you arrived at the conclusion that the men want shorter hours and more pay ? —I gather that from the general tenor of the petition. 37. I understand they complain they do not get paid for the work they do ? —I think they get paid for all they do. It is possible there might be cases when they do not get paid quite all. 38. If the labourers get an increase, should not the mechanics ? —That is a general question I cannot reply to. I could not state my opinion as to what would be right if certain things happen. 39. If the mechanics and artisans are entitled to a rise, should they not get it independent of an increase being granted to the labourers on this petition being presented ?—I cannot answer that question in general terms. It is only a matter of opinion. 40. What has this to do with the matter of the public complaining of the high rates; what has that to do with the rate of pay of the men; or do you consider the men should be underpaid to enable you to reduce grain freights ? —I suppose it depends entirely on what the country means to do with its railways. I merely stated the facts for the information of the Committee. I think it is a very important point which should be stated to the Committee—any point involving expenditure. I express no opinion, but merely state these things for the information of the Committee. 41. Should not the wages question be considered by itself?—No ; I do not think so. 42. When you make a reduction in freights, do you make a corresponding reduction in wages ? No ; Ido not do that. Ido not propose to deal unjustly with the employes to make the railways pay. 43. Are not Stationmasters better paid than these men ? —Not nearly so well paid as a body. Some drivers earn £250 a year. At 12s. a day a man gets £187 a year. That is more than the majority of Stationmasters get. The Stationmasters do not get paid overtime. No doubt the great body of the drivers and firemen are better paid than the great body of the Stationmasters. 44. In reference to guards, porters, signalmen, &c, is it not wrong that they should work any number of hours without overtime ?—There are cases in which they work long hours. They should not be called on to work any number of hours. I think there are cases in which it will be better to have more men, than for a smaller number to work overtime ; but to arrange and carry out that is a question of time. 45. Take Christchureh and Addington Stations, should they not have shorter hours ?—Tes, possibly ; but it will take time. 46. What do you think of these men as a body ; do you think you could get a better lot in any of the colonies or at Home ? —I think there is not a steadier and better class of men in New Zealand than our drivers and firemen. 47. Why should not the drivers and firemen be treated the same as those who work in the shops? I understand those in the locomotive department —that is, the drivers and firemen—are not paid overtime until after they have worked ten hours ? —No ; but they get a higher rate of pay, and ten hours' work on a locomotive is not considered equal to more than eight hours in the shops.

I.—IB

4

48. If they work one hour overtime in the shop and get paid for it, why should not the men on the locomotives get the same allowance ? —We do not consider ten hours' work on a locomotive more arduous than eight hours' work in the shop in a general way. 49. Do you not think it a wrong system that it should be left to the Locomotive Foreman to say how much overtime should be allowed ? —We could not get any one else who could do it properly. The Foreman is the only one who knows how much time has been worked. He sends in the time-sheet to the Superintendent, who considers each case. 50. Cannot you make a scale whereby the drivers themselves would know how much overtime they would get or would be entitled to ? —The work is not regular enough to do that: there are so many contingencies Ido not see how we could devise a better system. I think our practice is as good a one as we could adopt. Tou cannot make a fixed rule. 51. Would you undertake to go through the matter again and see if you cannot devise some better system of overtime ? —Tes ; I propose to go through the southern portion of the service during the recess. 52. As far as I know personally there is more complaint about this than anything else—that it leaves room for favouritism. I understand that the Foreman does not allow time for shunting or ballast? —I am not aware of that. I will issue instructions that time shall be allowed for ballast and shunting. 53. Then, the men complain that very often they have to go on duty again without a spell of rest ? ■ —I do not think that can be avoided in all cases, but I will give instructions that it shall be avoided as much as possible. 54. Could not the haulage returns be done away with ? —I do not think so. I think the men are making a little too much of it. They are putting in such things as these in order to make their case as strong as possible. We cannot do without it. Ido not think it takes more than a quarter of an hour as a rule to make it. 55. Is not the information obtainable from the guards? —Some of it might be, but it is not desirable to put it on to the guards. 56. The guards have to put down the trucks taken up and put down? —Tes. 57. Then, where is the necessity for both ?—lt is for the convenience of making out the information. There are two departments, and each wants separate information. It is required for different purposes by different people. They could not pass the returns about. 58. Will you consider the matter? —Tes, I will consider it. The drivers can make up these returns at intervals during the runs. 59. Should not the latter part of it, which the driver is obliged to do at home, he considered as part of his day's work ?—I do not think so; but I will endeavour to diminish the work as much as possible. 60. The firemen have to be at the engine forty-five minutes before the train Btarts ?—Tes; and we allow them half an hour for it, the same as the drivers. 61. Would it not be better to allow them the other quarter?—lt might be, possibly. I will consider it, but I cannot undertake to issue instructions to that effect. 62. If the drivers made the returns in the stations, would it not delay the trains? —If they got off the engines to do it it would. 63. They must not run more than ten miles tenders first ? —Tes. 64. Do you not think orders should be given in writing ?—No, I do not think so. 65. Do you not think it rather hard to have a rule on the books which you cannot carry out?— The Minister made the rule, which I think is a very proper rule, and appliances should be provided to carry it out. If the man has to work his train and break a rule for the want of appliances, that is not his fault. I think that is a fancy complaint. I think appliances should be provided, but we should not alter the rule. 66. In reference to tools, should it not be the duty of the Foreman of the shed to see that each engine is provided with tools ? —No ; the driver must be responsible. If proper tools are not provided the driver should report to the Foreman. 67. Then they complain of the rule as to washing out engines ?■ —That rule is a rule issued from head-quarters for the information of all the department. 68. Then there is a rule as to booking off men ; could they not be employed at Addington and Hillside, or repairing their engines?—l think that should be done away with if it is possible. After the session is over I shall inquire into this point. Even if a man is off for a day it does not always justify the stopping of his pay. The men may have been rather pressed in that respect. 69. Then, as to rule 344 ? —The driver ought to report that. 70. But supposing a Stationmaster tells him to run past it ?—He ought not to do it; it may have been done. I have seen it done, but disapprove of such a breach of the rule. 71. Is it not done sometimes by the order of the Manager or the Locomotive Superintendent?— No, Ido not think they would do it. But I will see into the matter.

Tuesday, 29th August, 1882. Mr. J. P. Maxwell's examination continued. 72. Mr. White.] Are the men not shifted sometimes for no good reason?—No. 73. Has the increase of Cd. per day been given to them, as provided by rule ?—I think so ; but of course I should not like to speak positively. 1 believe, however, that they have all received it when they were due for it. 74. Does not the Locomotive Superintendent inflict punishment for imaginary offences ?—I do not think he does. 75. With regard to the making of first class drivers, do you not think you have men whose good conduct and character entitle them to this rise?—Tes ; and when the time comes for appointing first

5

I.—IB

class drivers the best men among them will be selected. I examined all the services and I found that there was only one man who was entitled to be ranked in the first class. 76. Are you likely to appoint any to the first class shortly ?—-Tes; I noticed that there were several on the list who will he entitled to be placed on the first class when they are due for it. 77. Tou do not think that the Locomotive Superintendent inflicts punishment on the drivers for the purpose of keeping them from getting their increase of pay ?—Certainly I do not. 78. Then, you think the drivers are asking, as you state in replying, to be put into their proper classes, whether their conduct is good, had, or indifferent?—Tes; I may say that I cannot understand what the petitioners mean by saying that they have been subjected to acts of injustice. 79. Do you think the remarks you have made in regard to the drafting of the petition are correct ? —Tes, I think so. 80. Do you know whether all documents which are sent to the head of the department through the Locomotive Engineer reach their destination ?—I believe they do, and I have no reason to suppose that anything is ever suppressed. 81. Were no letters kept back when the strike was on ? —Not as far as I know. 82. Did not the Locomotive Superintendent refuse to send on a paper which referred to the carpenters ? —I have no recollection of that. But lam sure that the Locomotive Superintendent would not venture to stop any letter which he was asked to send on to me. If he did that it would be as much as his reputation was worth. 83. There is reason to believe that every document which is sent in to the Locomotive Superintendent for presentation to the head of the department is not forwarded ? —The Locomotive Superintendent would not hold back anything. 84. Do the men know that the applications for an increase have to be sent in upon a particular form?—No; the men themselves never send in the applications, but the offic6>'s do so for them when they are due for it. 85. Is every man paid for each day's work ? —Tes. 86. Are the men allowed anything when they are sick ?—They were not until recently ; but now deserving cases are taken into consideration. 87. Are the men not entitled to more than one day's leave of absence in the year ? —They are not entitled to more than that; but I think, at the same time, that the men should have some relaxation. Of course, there are difficulties attending it; if we gave the drivers leave of absence we should have to give the other day-men the same privilege. 88. The employes in the traffic department have a week's leave each year, have they not ? —Tes, The men who get leave of absence do not get paid for overtime, but there is no proper rule in the service regarding that. 89. In the tenth clause of their petition the petitioners say that they only get one day's leave of absence, while the enginemen in another colony get seven days a year. Our men get one day only, and will you give them seven days' holiday per year, allowing the men to choose the time, subject to convenience of the department, arid give them notice of same ?—I will draw the Minister's attention to your request. 90. Why could not the inquiry they ask for be granted?—l do not think it would be for the good of the department if such an inquiry were held. When a serious complaint is made, the matter is inquired into by two officers of the department, and the persons who complain get all fairplay ; but it is not desirable that an official inquiry should be held in every case. 91. Is it not a fact that if you yourself had not held an inquiry an engine-driver would have fared badly ?—No, I think not, In the case referred to the Traffic Manager made the charges, and the matter was referred to me as they were not very definite. 92. Sometime ago there was an expression of opinion by the public that the Railway Department was extravagantly administered. Was not the general belief that the extravagance lay with the officials rather than with the working-men of the railway?—l think there were too many people emplpyed in the Railway Department. In fact, I think the whole of the railway was over-manned in all departments. 93. Do you think the men would object to economy, when absolutely necessary, being practised, if every one were treated alike ? —Tes, I do think so. 94. Are not some of the Stationmasters provided with a house worth £50 a year ? —Tes; but the drivers and firemen, on the average, draw about £30 a year more than the Stationmasters and clerks, after considering house-rent. 95. What do you mean by the paragraph about persons outside the department exercising evil influences over the railway employes ?—I will read a letter by a man named Wilson to an employe in the Railway Department, and also another by the same person written to the newspaper sometime after. I wish to indicate how little value can be attached to the remarks of that person, and also to show that others were acting in collusion with him to the detriment of the service:— No. 1. Dbab Sib,— 190, George Street, Dunedin, 16th October, 1880. How are you getting on during this great eruption ? Our friend Conyers is rather a small man now. I see, by the Star of yesterday, that J. H. Lowe is to be cleared out. Our friend, Alfred Luther B , was carrying a high head ; but since Townie got notice he has drawn in his horns. I hope Mr. A. Smith will come down, as, what little I know of him, he is just the Moses to put this place in ship-shape. You have no idea how the place is now degraded and demoralized. It was bad when you were here ; but then that was paradise to what things are now. I am glad I am out of it as things are. Conyers sent, by Mr. Stout, for me to go and see him, and he would reinstate me ; but I had enough of him and his deceit, for I would not work again under any agricultural labourer, as I did under O. Stewart. I am going to rest till new year ; then I will clear out of the country, and will, I think, steer for San Francisco. I can tell you that I have them here frightened to death, as I tell them Mr. Smith is coming. They here think I know; but, of course, it is only my wish that Mr. S. gets charge of the running department of this Island. Hoping to hear from you soon, and that you are well, is the wish of, Yours truly, E. Wiison.

I.—IB

6

No. 2. [Morning Herald, Ist March, 1882.] Railway Management. Sib,— To the Editor. That railway men of the locomotive department have been unfairly used for some time is beyond a doubt. It may not be forgotten by your readers that a scale of pay was arranged and agreed to at the time of the 10-per-cent. reduction agitation, and which appeared in the daily papers at that time, viz., about 4th September, 1880; also, in conjunction, there was a Board constituted, giving any offenders a fair trial, with a right of appeal to the heads of departments, &c. This scale and Board Mr. Maxwell says are not in existence; but the question arises, when did they cease to exist? Why were not the employes consulted and made aware of this change? This for the past twenty-five years would in any other place have led to one of those fearful and destructive strikes that have taken place in Britain or America. An agreement in all fairness ought to be adhered to, and, when a change is imperative, employed and employer ought to and will have a voice in that change. low, many artisans who were a credit to the railway are not there now. Why is this ? The officers who wanted room for their friends soon found fault, and they (the artisans referred to) were forced to resign or be discharged. These men, on asking an inquiry into their case, are told that their case has been fully inquired into, and they are no longer wanted. I miglit ask, when were these numerous inquiries held ? Who gave evidence ? Certainly not the wronged. They had no voice in the case in which they were the most interested—the case of Bradley being so barefacedly unjust and tyrannical that the city members, by letter, requested Mr. Maxwell, on his late visit here, to do justice to this man by holding an inquiry. Mr. Maxwell's reply was that it had been fully investigated (in Bradley's absence of course) ; that the Board was non est; that the officers in the service were held responsible for the working of the same, and retained the most efficient, and sent those not suited about their business. And very proper say I. But Mr. M. did not say the management retained efficient officers. The time was when the best mechanics from the leading locomotive and railway Bhops in Great Britain were engaged and sent over the whole world as foremen and workmen ; but there is not any locomotive foreman in any railway that is not a trained mechanic, except in this colony. I know that the Locomotive Foremen of Christchureh, Timaru, Dunedin, and Invercargill are not so trained. They have been put into position certainly not by merit. They have to entirely depend on mechanics who are subordinate to them. No wonder nearly every engine repaired lias to be done often twice ere they are right. I am not surprised to hear some of these Foremen have a dislike to members of the Amalgamated Society of Engineers; but the society will not collapse although these great guns are arrayed against it. I notice a newly-repaired engine had, after leaving Hillside, to be again overhauled at the running-shed ; but I fail to learn of another Bradley being victimized for the carelessness displayed. By the way, the engines are being experimented on, as again the chimineys are again being altered. These are wonderful chimneys, as they have been altered five times, and yet lire flies from them. Also the repairs effected, and the clattering of engines with the sharp wheels, show there is something wrong. Instead of this work being supervised by an efficient engineer, it seems *to me to be done under the eye of a French fencing-master. Mr. Fish having taken up the ease on behalf of these men he will see justice done to them; and the very able article of yours will also materially assist the furtherance of this object. I may Bay concerning the two engines I mentioned in my last as unsafe to run, one was stopped the following day, and the other is laid by for a time. I will, I fear, have cause to let the travelling public hear of others unfit to run. In conclusion, let me say there is one law to try Dunedin men, another for the Christchureh men —one of the former is instantly discharged for an offence ; the latter is merely reduced. Another of the former is fined for a paltry handle ; one of the latter is not even reprimanded for smashing a van. But these men are sent from Canterbury as examples of good conduct to the benighted Dunedin and Invercargill men. As Mr. Fish well remarks, there ought to be a Commission, and I hope I may be called as a witness face to face with those I am impelled to thus write about. Your readers, with me, will say it is time for a change when the railway is now in the position that our Foremen liave their children, after school-hours, doing the duty of what once occupied a storekeeper. This is making railways pay with a vengeance. Also a new way of making railways pay is making men work overtime while good meclianics are to be seen idle in our streets. This is new economy. Ido not hear of any of the rolling-stock from Oamaru coming to Dunedin for repairs, as promised ub by the Hon. T. Dick. I think this is south of the Waitaki, which he defined as the limit of Otago railways; but of course this was an election speech.—Apologizing for again trespassing, I am, &c, Manse Street, 22nd February, 1882. El). WIISON. I had three letters about Bradley, whom I had dismissed for incompetency, from Mr. Fish, Mr. Green, and Mr. Bracken, to which I replied. I did not write to Wilson, but he clearly had access to one of mj' letters. I think lam justified in saying that irresponsible persons are interfering with the department. 96. But all this took place when there was almost a strike on the part of the railway employes ? — Tes; there was some agitation at the time. There are two members of Parliament from Auckland who have taken up the cause of the men so far as their pay is concerned. 97,. Mr. M. W. Green.] Am I included in these two men ? —No. 98. Mr. White.] When mistakes are made, do you not think the men suffer for the faults of their superiors ?—No. 99. Tou have said that the letters of, the men always reach the Minister when they are sent to him ? —Tes. I have never known any case in which any document has been suppressed. 100. By whose authority are locomotive drivers compelled to pay their railway fares when they are travelling from one place to another for the convenience of the department? —I have no idea that such a case has occurred. It is the practice to give the men a pass when they are travelling on the public service. It is quite possible, however, that, if a man neglected to get an order, he might be made to pay. 101. Has any scale of wages been issued since the 10-per-cent. reduction ? —There have been two scales since the 10-per-cent. reduction. 102. When was the first scale issued ?—The first was issued in May, 1881, and the second in May, 1882. 103. Are you aware that the men have no knowledge of the change in the scale ?—No. 104. Are all the drivers treated alike? —The southern men have the best of it, because the privileges they enjoyed under the previous scale were not cancelled. 105. Are there some drivers in the Middle Island who work only eight hours per day, but who get the same pay as those who are on duty twelve or fourteen hours a clay ? —Tes. 106. Do you know how many hours the driver of the train which met with the accident at Shag Point was on duty before the accident, occurred ? —He had not been at work for fourteen hours previously; but before that he was on duty for thirty-six hours. 107. They started on Monday morning at 11 o'clock, and were on duty until Wednesday morning ? —Perhaps so ; I do not now remember exact details. 108. Do you not think that was rather hard on the men and dangerous to the public ? —Tes ; but in a case of emergency Ido not see how it could always be avoided. I think, however, that if possible the thing should be managed in some other way.

7

I.—IB

109. Was the engine-driver not on duty just before he took charge of the train which met with the accident ? —He was not working for fourteen hours previously. 110. Was the driver not on duty for forty-seven hours, as was stated at the inquest on the body of the man who was killed ? —He may be said to have been on duty, inasmuch as he was in charge of his engine; but he was not working it for fourteen hours before the accident. 111. Are the drivers required, in addition to attending to their engines, to work in the sheds without pay during the day ?—A driver has to see that his engine is kept in proper condition. 112. Do you not consider that he should be paid for that ? —Tes. 113. Mr. M. W. Green.] Was not a notice posted up to the effect that if any man had a complaint to make he could make it before a Board, which would deal with it ?—-I dare say that was the case ; but it has not been so in my time. 114. Was that rule ever recalled ?—I do not know. 115. Did Bradley apply to be heard by a Board? —Perhaps he did. 116. What was the nature of the letter you received from me in reference to this case ?—-As far as I can recollect 1 think you asked for an inquiry into the case. There was nothing objectionable in the letter in any way. 117. Is Mr. Wilson a man of superior intelligence to the ordinary run of railway employes ?—I cannot say. 118. Is it likely that the railway employes will be misled by a man like Wilson ? —I think it is very likely. 119. Are you aware that Bradley was discharged for having asked Mr. Dick a question at his election meeting ? —lt was not so. Bradley was a respectable man, but a very careless workman. I heard by one of his subsequent employers that the man was not a good workman. 120. Mr. Levestam^] Tou have said that the men should apply to their Foreman for information. How could they do so unless they knew they were required to do so ? —I say that there ought to be more information given. 121. Have not these men a right to consider that they are working under a certain scale at present ?—Tes. 122. Do you not know that this scale has been cancelled ? —Tes. 123. Has it been cancelled in Nelson ? —The original scale was cancelled and superseded by the one issued in 1881. 124. Then they are still working under the scale of 1880 ?—No. 125. Tou say that the scale has been fairly and equitably administered ?—Tes. 126. Do you think the scale has been fairly carried out ? —lt may not have been carried out to the very letter. 127. How long is a man supposed to remain in one class before he is promoted to another ?—I cannot say, because each case has to be considered on its merits. If a man is entitled to promotion he will get it. The Locomotive Superintendent would take care that the men got notice of the change in the scale. 128. If a man were entitled to an increase, do you think a Superintendent would be right in saying, " If you do not like it you can leave it ?" —No. 129. Tou have said that the pay of the higher officers has not been increased more than that of the inferior officers ?—Tes. 130. Has not the salary of the District Manager in Nelson been increased ?—Not since I took charge. 131. And the salaries of the men under him have not been increased ?—-Not as a rule. 132. Was there any particular reason why that District Manager's salary was increased ? —I think the increase was made when he was put in charge of the two sections—Picton and Nelson. 133. A fourth class Stationmaster is entitled by scale to £150 a year? —Tes. 134. The Stationmaster in Nelson is ranked in the fourth class. What salary does he receive ?—- He gets about £180, I think—that is, £130 as Stationmaster and £50 as Storekeeper, or something of that sort. * 135. Then, why is he put down on the Estimates as receiving £145 per annum ? —That does not matter. 136. Why does the Stationmaster at Richmond, which is a smaller place than Nelson, receive a larger salary than the Stationmaster at Nelson ? —That is an anomaly which I cannot explain, further than saying that he is an old postal servant, and it would not be fair to reduce him. 137. The time of some of these men has been increased and they have got no extra pay for it; do you think they are entitled to any increase ? —Tes ; in the cases you spoke to me about I think there should be some little change made. 138. Mr. Werry signs himself as Secretary for Railways, and I suppose he is acquainted with the rules of the service ?—Tes. 139. He has told me distinctly that the guards who are not paid for overtime are entitled to ten days' leave of absence in the year? —Some men may have got it, but they are not entitled to it by rule. 140. Do you not think they all should have it ?— I think there should be some rule on the subject. 141. Will you try to get some rule made on the subject ?—I think that, if the Committee recommend it, the Minister will probably consider the matter. 142. If a man is found fault with or dismissed, is an inquiry held?—Not in every case. For instance, if a man got drunk and was dismissed there might be no necessity for an inquiry. 143. Was not a man named Mulligan dismissed without an inquiry ? —I held an inquiry into his case myself, and on finding that he was not suitable I discharged him. He was a respectable, worthy man, I believe, but not suitable.

8

I.—IB

144. Tou have said that the salaries of the railway employes were not reduced by 10 per cent., as was the case in other departments ? —I have explained that the management of the railway was conducted in an extremely loose manner. The 10-per-cent. reduction did not affect the Railway Department as a whole. 145 Tou say that another scale has been adopted since 1880, which is not detrimental to the employes ? —Tes. 146. Mr. J. Buchanan.] Of course, the men who went into the Railway Department were aware, before they joined, that they would be subjected to irregular hours ? —Tes; and even with that understanding men are anxious to get into the service. 147. What length of notice is required from the men who wish to resign ?—A fortnight's notice on either side. 148. Consequently, these men who are employed by the Railway Department are in no way different from sailors and other men who take engagements knowing that they will have to serve at irregular hours ? —No ; I do not consider that they are worked harder than nine-tenths of the colonists are. 149. Do you not, as General Manager of the railways, recognize the importance of having the best men you can get ?—Tes. _50. Tou have already admitted that, for the safety of the public, your men should not be kept too long at work ?—Tes. 151. Do you work horses in connection with the railway? —Tes, shunting. 152. Do the men who are working those horses see that they are fed, &c. ? —I cannot say. We have only a few horses, and they are looked after by the local officers. 153. Mr. Levestam.] Will you see that in future the scale is framed and put in some conspicuous place, where the men can see it ? —I will not undertake to do that unless the scale is gazetted. 154. The Chairman.] Tou say that the rules are made without authority ?—They have the Minister's authority, which is given under the Public Works Act. 155. Are we to understand that if a man does his work well he will continue to be employed by the Railway Department ?•—Tes, certainly. 156. And how is he paid —wet days and dry days ? —Tes. 157. Do you think that the men who act as platelayers are paid as well as if they were working for somebody outside the Government ?-— Tes. 158. Have you any difficulty when you want to get good men, to fill up vacancies ?—No ; when the strike occurred in Christchureh last year, we had more applications than we wanted. 159. Then you think that with the present rate of wages you can get good men to work for you ? —-Tes. 160. Do the men as a rule complain that they are underpaid as compared with the men outside? —No. The clerical staff is not too highly paid ; in fact, I think they are not paid enough ; but all the other employes are well paid. 161. Then you think that the wages paid at present are sufficient?-—Tes. 162. Mr. White.] Do you not consider that the engine-drivers are the best you can get in the colony ?—Tes. 163. Do the platelayers get paid on wet days ? —Tes; but they have to be present on the line. 164. Do you not think the clerks of the department are underpaid ? —Tes ; but there are a great many applications from persons who would be willing to fill the positions.

APPENDICES. EEPOET OP ME. MAXWELL ON THE PETITION OF THE LOCOMOTIVE DEIVEES AND FIEEMEN OI? THE HUEUNITI-BLLFF SECTION, NEW ZEALAND EAILWAYS. The petition is signed by 135 hands of the Locomotive Department. One of these is from a man who has left the service, and thirteen of them are from hands temporarily employed as firemen, leaving 121 legitimate petitioners. There are about 280 drivers and firemen on the New Zealand Railways. The petition cannot conveniently be treated alone and without regard to collateral circumstances. The petitioners represent a portion of a particular class from a body of some 3,600 railway employes. They are paid under a scale, a copy of which is attached; they are the best paid class of men, as a whole, in the service. The chief objects of the petitioners appear to be to obtain more pay and shorter hours. The wages-question affects the employes as well as the economical results of the railway-working. At this particular juncture several matters have to be considered in dealing with a petition involving an increase in wages. A large body of the railway hands has just been granted an increase in the rate of wages ; concurrently there is a large body of mechanies and artisans who will doubtless also claim a higher rate of pay in the same way as the petitioners have done. On the other hand, a large section of the public is urging for heavy reductions in railway rates for grain, minerals, and timber. The increased rates of wages which may be demanded, and the diminutions

Enclosure 1

9

I.— IB

in rates asked, have been estimated roughly to amount to £160,000, or more than one-third of the net revenue of the railways. The petition therefore seems to demand more than the consideration of the individual interests of a small section of the employes. Obviously a point which has to be kept in view while endeavouring to deal justly with the employes and the public is, in what way does the colony propose to pay interest on the cost of its railways, whether by general taxation or by remunerative working ? The employes may be divided into two classes : First, the eight-hour men; second, intermittent workmen. To the latter class belong Stationmasters, Station Clerks, Guards, Porters, Signalmen, Drivers, Firemen, Cleaners, numbering over 1,000 men. Of these, the Drivers and Firemen only, according to usage, get paid for overtime. Though their hours of work may nominally be mapped out with regularity, the nature of the service, which is affected by various contingencies, makes the work somewhat irregular. I attach a compilation of four weeks' work during a busy time of the year, run out to show the average time worked by the gangs. The labour of engine-driving is not of the same arduous nature as most mechanics or labourers work. The intermittent nature of the work is inconvenient; but, as a rule, Ido not think these hands are physically or mentally harder worked than nine-tenths of the settlers in the colony, or than carriers or cab-drivers, shipping hands, and a host of others. They are probably not harder worked on the whole than the balance of the intermittent workers, and they are undoubtedly better paid. TIME. 3. That your humble petitioners' hours on duty are frequently excessive, and they are not paid in proportion, the exceptions to this proving the rule. It rests chiefly on the Locomotive Foreman how much (if any) overtime is allowed for excessive hours. One hour's overtime may be allowed for a day of thirteen, fourteen, or fifteen hours. No matter how long the day is, no overtime is allowed when shunting or ballasting. If, in the interest of the department, overtime is imperative, they ask a reasonable amount of rest before resuming duty, and a fair day's pay for a fair day's work, i.e., the whole time on duty to be considered. In order to show clearly that their hours are excessive, they quote twenty-three cases from the time-table.

Enclosure 2,

Petitioners'

statement,

The twenty cases cited above do not include special trains that have to be run for different purposes in many instances after the day's duty is performed. These specials often take the greater portion, or all night, to run them, and the men have to resume their ordinary runs on the following day without any time being allowed for rest, thus making tho total amount of time on duty from thirty to thirty-six hours; and it is, on record of drivers and firemen working forty-five hours, with scarcely sufficient intermission to get their food. 3. It is not competent to make an absolute rule about computing time. If a gang comes on duty for four or five hours in the morning and is then not worked for a similar number, and comes on again for another run in the evening, the men are not as a rule paid time and a quarter for the idle time. The man who runs forty or fifty miles into the country, waits a few hours, and runs back with a return train, may be thus on duty twelve or fourteen hours. It is inconvenient, no doubt; but, bearing in mind the work done by his fellows in other departments and by the great majority of workers in the colony, he is not unduly worked, and he is a better paid man than the majority of workers.

2—l. Id.

Mr. Maxwell's remarks.

Train Runs. Time on Duty. Train's Time of Time of Arrival, Depar- Last ture. Trip. Time on Duty after Arrival. Total Time on Duty. _emar_g. a.m. a.m. p.m. 9.5 10.55 12.10 6.0 4.30 h. m. Lyttelton and Christchureh ... Passengers Passengers ... Lyttelton Goods North Goods 6.25 6.55 50 minutes 30 minutes ) Worked by two shifts of men, running / late trains two nights per week. Or later if required. Engine to turn, coal, and water after arrival, and do anything that may be necessary. Engine to turn, coal, and water. 7.45 5.30 8.15 6.0 j. 3, 1 hour 10.15 12.0 South Goods South Goods, old time-table, changed in April 4.30 5.0 2.20 11.0 Christehurch-Timaru Christchurch-Springfield Springfield-Christchurch Ashburton-Christehurch Asbtburto-i-Timaru ... Timaru-Ashburton ... Oamaru- Timaru Oamaru-Timaru Timaru-Oamaru p.m. 4.10 a.m. 7.45 6.55 6.0 6.40 6.20 7.0 6.50 12.20 6.50 p.m. 4.40 a.m. 8.15 7.25 6.30 7.10 6.50 7.30 7.20 12.53 7.20 a.m. 4.0 p.m. 7.50 7.35 7.45 7.50 8.10 8.10 3.13 8.0 7.55 33 J) 30 minutes* 1 hour 12.50 13.5 13.40 14.15 14.10 14.50 14.10 9.20 9.20 14.5 33 Engine to shunt trains, coal, and water. *Engine to shunt. Small engine. Engine to turn, coal, and water. >> >> » ,3 ?> Dunedin-Oamaru ... Dunedin-Clinton Clinton-Dunedin 7.45 7.30 5.40 8.15 8.0 6.10 7.35 7.0 9.15 3) 33 33 12.50 12.30 16.35 Engine to turn, coal, and water, or be done in the morning. Engine to turn, coal, and water, or be done in the morning. Engine to turn, eoal, and water, or be done in tho morning. Engine to turn, coal, and water, or be clone in the morning. Engine to turn, coal, and water, or be done in tho morning. On Saturdays. Engine to turn, coal, and water, or be done in the morning. This train is often late. Engine to turn, coal, and water. Clinton-Invercargill < 5.30 6.0 8.35 33 15.5 5.30 6.40 6.0 7.10 9.35 4.55 16.5 11.15 Invercargill-Clinton Invercargill-Clinton Invercargill-Kingston Lawrence Branch 9.45 6.15 5.40 10.15 6.45 6.10 8.5 7.30 9.0 11.20 14.15 15.20 30 minutes

I.—IB

10

Time does not allow of my going into the detail of the train-services submitted in this paragraph. I think the average time worked by each gang, which I have returned, gives a correct view of the case. The time-table hours quoted are too vague to follow. I am aware of one case in which a gang was on duty on and off thirty-six hours. I never heard of another. Special circumstances led to this, but such a case certainly should under no circumstances be allowed to occur. STANDING TIME. 4. That with reference to standing time, your humble petitioners respectfully draw attention to this column in the haulage sheets, for, although shown as standing ti-re, the most arduous duties in connection with the engine have to be done—coaling, watering, oiling, packing, trimming, the fire cleaned, smoke-box emptied, lamps trimmed, ash-pan cleaned; if possible, engine turned, &c, &c. Should the day be a long one, this time, although occupied, is deducted from them. Your humble petitioners feel this is very unfair, as Eule 324 states that an.engine in steam "must on no account be left by both Driver and Fireman at the same time (for however short a time)," so that they are on duty the whole of the time from coming on until the engine returns to the shed. The day's work ereu then is by no means finished, as a most important part remains to be completed. This is the daily return of mileage, haulage, and stores consumed by the engine. To most of them this is the most difficult portion of the day's work, as they do not lay any pretensions to clerical skill. There are fourteen different classes of vehicles, and it must be shown where a vehicle is taken on and at what station put off. This is a most awkward task to perform correctly, as the different classes have to be specified ; a long train or a dark night does not exempt them, and the difficulty is apparent when only two or three minutes are allowed at a station. They are liable to be, and have been, fined for an error of even one vehicle. In no other part of the globe is this asked, or expected, from _snginemen. These sheets take them over an hour on the average, no time being allowed for this, and only thirty minutes for getting the engine ready before the train starts. This, to say the least, is arbitrary, for it is impossible to do the work under an hour. The Fireman is on duty forty-five minutes before the train starts. (See Eule 313.) He is not paid for more than thirty minutes. (It is evident that this rule has been taken from a Home regulation. The men there are relieved from duty, and persons appointed to turn the engine and coal and water it. This takes at least thirty minutes.) Then there is the oiling and other incidental duties to be performed, and the engine to get on to the train some minutes before its departure. 4. The duties described in this paragraph are somewhat over-estimated. They are light. The cleaners do all the heavy work cleaning, and the coalmen that of the coaling. Turning the hose into the tanks to fill them with water is an operation known to most people; it is not a severe task. The return complained of is not anything very serious, and the jotting down the particulars is done as the driver passes through the stations; he has no computations to perform. We cannot dispense with these reports; but I will observe the matter particularly, and relieve them of any superfluous work which is possible. EHLES. 5. That your humble petitioners show the arbitrary and harsh manner in which the rules and regulations are construed, is felt to be an injustice, their superiors interpreting them as it best suits their purpose. For instance, Eule 378 states that an engine must not run more than ten miles an hour, tender first. In many instances, w-hen running passenger trains, the driver, in order to run to time, has to travel twenty miles per hour, and yet is unable to obtain a written order; thus, in case of an accident, the onus would rest with him. Eule 315 provides a complete set of tools for each engine. This is seldom the ease. A driver on a strange engine, meeting witi\a break-down, would thus be liable to be severely dealt with for incompetency or being dilatory, whereas it is no fault of his, but the requisite tools are wanting. Eule 338 states that Engine-drivers must, if practicable, have their engine-boilers washed out every seventh day ; and he is responsible for the work that is necessary to be done on wash-out days. On some portions of the section (Christchureh, for instance) a driver very rarely washes out his own engine. Eule 339 says : Enginemen, when not required on the line, are to he employed in tho shop. Instead of this, it has been customary in Christchureh to book men off —that is, their pay is stopped for the day. Your petitioners are convinced that in no other portion of the Civil Service is this system carried out. Eule 344, relative to signals, states that, when at danger, no train or engine must pass them; yet this is often done, without anything hut verbal orders to do so. In case of anything going wrong, the Driver would be blamed. 5. The complaints are not well founded, as a Driver would not be held responsible where he had not means to turn the engine; but it is an objectionable state of things that turntables should not be available. It has been the subject of many representations by the department, and is now being amended. If a Driver does not report want of tools he is to blame: he knows it is his business to do so. Rule 338. The complaint seems frivolous. Rule 339. Gives the department power to employ these hands in the shops when located at them; but, as the shops are confined to two places, Addington and Hillside, obviously the men could not be sent there. Rule 344. The Driver who has done this has neglected his duty in not reporting the breach of rule to his superior, as the rules require. EEMOYING. 6. Your petitioners most humbly show that this is anything but conducive to habits of thrift or economy, as removing them from one place to another necessitates the sacrifice of their homes, that have taken them years of pinching to gather together. Many of them have members of their families employed, and removing does not alter their habits or ability, inasmuch as they can only do their duty wherever their location may be. 6. Removal. —Men are bound to be sent where the service requires. If they become the servants of the public they must put up with these disadvantages. SCALE OF PAY. 7. That your humble petitioners court inquiry into one of the most flagrant acts of injustice that they have had to submit to, viz., the manner in which they have been treated relative to a scale that was submitted to and accepted by them. This has been of late all but ignored, for, whereas it provided that 25 per cent, of the Drivers received the maximum pay of 135.. per day, only one or two receive it. The annual increase of 6d. a day has seldom been given, when due, to either Drivel's or Firemen. They feel this all the more, as most of them joined the service years ago under these conditions, and they have never received a general order repudiating their increase. It would appear to rest entirely on the whim and caprice of the Locomotive Superintendent, who, in many cases, visits slight and frivolous offences with the harshest severity— fining them ; and often, in addition to that, stopping the increase for twelve months.

Petitioners' statement.

Mr. Maxwell's remarks.

Petitioners' statement.

Mr. Maxwell's remarks.

Petitioners' statement.

Mr. Maxwell's remarks.

Petitioners' statement.

11

I.—IB

There is nothing but punishment to look forward to, and men cannot invariably submit to this when it is dealt out in a capricious manner by one taking advantage of his position. 7. Scale of Pay. —This is the real source of soreness. The men in 1880 accepted a scale of pay, and were for the first time put under a rigid system of scrutiny and promotion. The scale has been fairly and equitably administered. Promotion has been made contingent on good conduct. A man who has not a clean sheet is debarred from promotion for a certain time, and this rule, which I found in force, seems to me to be a just and reasonable one. As regards the 13s. rate, this was a source of complaint a few months back. Alter examining the lists in detail I found only one man whose length of service would have made him eligible for 13s. The rule provided that not more than 25 per cent, of the hands should receive 135., but not that 25 per cent, were to be paid at this rate. Not only length of service, but a man's character and conduct, would have to be considered before he was placed in this rank. It certainly is not a desirable order of things to introduce that, be a man good, bad, or indifferent, he is to be promoted to the highest position. Personally, I should be opposed to such indiscriminating action. The petition has no doubt been drafted by some person unacquainted with the facts of the case, as the statements made may be characterized as untrue. The Locomotive Superintendent is unduly blamed. All the papers for increases which are made on proper forms are sent forward to the head office, where the names and particulars of service are recorded, the proposals are checked, and, if due, are allowed. So far from standing in the way, the local officers rather tend to yield to the pressure which is put on them very severely both by their men and by persons who interest themselves about them. 8. That your humble petitioners pray each day's work done shall be reckoned on its own merits, and not computed on the present method of running one day into another—thus confounding the individuality of each separate day. 8. There is no such rule in force. 9. That your humble petitioners, until recently, should sickness or an accident (in the execution of their duty) overtake them, were allowed half-pay. This is now discontinued, although notice has not been issued to that effect. The hazardous nature of their employment is apparent, when insurance companies (the Government amongst the number) charge Enginemen 10 per cent more than ordinary policies, as it is termed a "risky policy." This is seldom taken into consideration. 9. The same rules remain in operation as I found operative when I took charge of the railways, two years since. 10. That your humble petitioners show the sister colony grants Enginemen seven days' holiday a year. Your humble petitioners are given one day, and are dependent on the Foreman when they get it. An impartial and independent Court of inquiry, with open doors, is their only protection. They ask nothing unreasonable ; they wish for nothing but fairplay and common justice. It is impossible to obtain either one or the other under the present system. Your humble petitioners are fully prepared to substantiate all that has been stated, so that it may be ascertained whether their grievances are real or imaginary. Your humble petitioners have not particularized individual grievances, aa they would be too voluminous; but, as a body, they are suffering under all the hardships enumerated'. 10. I think a greater margin for relaxation might be allowed in this respect. The Addendum. —A circular issued with a view to the gradual reduction of hours where excessive seems to meet with disapprobation. This is apparently inconsistent, and it is only to be accounted for by the fact that the men who work overtime get liberally paid for it, and that they object to steps calculated to an increase in their numbers and a loss of overtime. It is a well-known fact that the long-hour services are sought for on account of the pay. There is not a man who has a long-hour service who, if he desires it, cannot be removed and placed on lighter work, and his place would be filled eagerly. It is not easy to make a short-hour service. Take, for instance, the general practice: A man runs four hours out, waits four hours, and runs back, doing twelve hours' intermittent work; or he comes on duty for a spell in the morning, does nothing for some hours, and takes another spell at night. In the first place how are we to shorten ? Are we to send two gangs, one in a carriage to bring the other home, and in such case are we to pay each man 12s. a day for this service? Or, in the second case, is the man who is off duty four or five hours in the day to be paid time and a quarter for this ? I regret very much to find the querulous tone imported into the petition. At the time I took over charge I found a certain scale of wages recently introduced, which has been amended and corrected, not however detrimentally to the present employes. The House of Representatives had just at the time pronounced in favour of sweeping and stringent economies. The Railway Department had been especially pointed at as a nest of extravagance. The public demanded greater efficiency and less expenditure. The Minister therefore appointed the present administering staff to give effect to these views. Economies are never acceptable : they have not been in the case of the Railway Department. The men took to their nearest superior as interposing between their getting higher wages and easier times. They are entirely blind to the higher powers, the House, the Press, and public opinion, whose dictates are being enforced by the Ministry through their officers. I believe the officers have fairly and equitably given effect to the orders under which they have been acting. The control and discipline of the department in 1880 were defective. In railway-running the safety of public life and property depend on the strictest discipline being maintained in all ranks. The rules must be enforced, and the men must be made to obey at any cost, even if the officers have to suffer.

Mr. Maxwell's remarks.

Petitioners' statement.

Mr. Maxwell's remarks.

Petitioners' statement.

Mr. Maxwell's remarks.

Petitioners' statement.

Mr. Maxwell's remarks.

The evil influences exercised by irresponsible persons outside the department have, I believe, instigated a portion of the locomotive hands to discontent, and to make demands which, bearing in mind the nature of the services they are engaged in, and the wages and pay earned by the bulk of the employes and the other colonists, are not reasonable.

L—lß

12

There are influences, I regret to find, constantly at work which strike at the root of all order and discipline. It is a notorious fact that I cannot now, as the chief officer of the railways, order the removal of a drunken man or a.bad workman or a loafer without having remonstrances from persons who are ever ready to condemn any shortcomings, yet still, by the course they follow with the employes, do their best to make rail way-working extravagant, unsafe, and inefficient. It is to the influences of this kind that I attribute the present tone of a small section of the employes. It is impossible that in a large department like the railways there should not be mistakes made with the employes, and cases of hardship will occur. The provision against this is an appeal to the Minister. No case of appeal to the Minister has ever been prevented, and a full and impartial statement of the case by officers not immediately concerned in the transactions has always been forthcoming. I have no reason to believe that in such cases any injustice has ever been shown which has not been remedied. I may say, in regard to this petition, that it is impossible that the railway should be efficiently and safely conducted unless strict discipline and observance of the rules is enforced. The officers are merely the instruments carrying out the demands of the public, and it would be desirable that all hands should be brought to understand this. J. P. Maxwell. Bth August, 1882.

Enclosure 1. SCALE OF PAT FOR WORKING-RAIL WAT STAFF. (Revised 28th July, 1882.) The following scale of pay for the Working-Eailway Staff will apply to all employes engaged after the 23rd May, 1881, at which date it was introduced. It will not be applied to reduce the pay of those now paid above the scale. Pay below the scale will be arranged to work up to it gradually. It will not be applied to cancel privileges secured under previous arrangements. The classification of the present employes is not necessarily decided by the rates of pay received at the date hereof. Eegular increases are to date from the end of the four-weekly period preceding the quarter-day next following the date of appointment. TEAFFIC DEPAETMENT. Stationmasteks. Stationmasters must be persons trained to a knowledge of station accounts, and having a thorough acquaintance with the duties laid down in the rules and regulations. Promotions will be made from the juniors among the traffic employes, and from lower to higher classes, according to the efficiency and good conduct of the officers, as vacancies occur. Stationmasters will be paid at the rate of, — 6th class ... ... £130 per annum. 3rd class ... ... ... £175 per annum. sth „ ... ... £140 „ 2nd „ ... ... ... £200 „ 4th „ ... ... £150 „ Ist „ ... ... ... £250 „ After ten years' service as Ist class Stationmaster, the pay to be £275 per year, and after fifteen years £300. Where no house is provided, house allowance at the rate of £50 per year will be made to Ist and 2nd class Stationmasters, and £25 per year to others. Porters in charge of stations will be paid 48s. per week, with house allowance of 9s. 6d. per week where no house is provided. Stationmasters may be called upon to perform Postal and Telegraph duties in addition to the railway work ; in such cases the pay will be regulated according to circumstances. OUTDOOE StAFE. Coaching and Goods Foremen will be paid from 10s. to 12s. per day. Guards, Ist class, will be paid, — s. d. s. d. Ist year ... ... ... 9 0 per day. I After seven years' service ... 10 0 per day. 2nd „ ... ... ... 9 6,,' Guards, 2nd class, and Brakesmen will be paid,— s. d. s. d. Ist year ... ... ... 8 0 per day. | 2nd year ... ... ... 8 6 per day. Increases of pay to Guards will depend upon good conduct and the careful and complete execution of the duties assigned to them. Increases are liable to be disallowed on account of insubordination, neglect, or incompetence. Promotions will be made from 2nd to Ist class according to efficiency and good conduct, as vacancies occur. Guards will be selected from the class of Porters and Shunters. Horse-drivers, Shunters, Signalmen, and Storemen will be paid, — s. d. s. A. 4th class ... ... ... 7 0 per day. Ist class ... ... ... 8 6 per day. 3rd „ ... ... ... 7 6 „ Head Shunters and Storemen ... 10 0 „ 2nd „ ... ... ... 8 0 „ Porters will be paid, — s. d. s. d. Ist year ... ... 6 6 per day") -, , I Ist year ... ... V 0 per day) ~ , 2nd „ 6 6 „' j 2nd class. | 2nd^ 7 fi i J j Ist class. Lad Porters not under sixteen years of age will be employed. They will be paid 4s. per day for the first year, increasing Is. per day each year. They will rank as Porters after the second year. Increases of pay depend upon good conduct and careful attention to duties. Increases are liable to be disallowed for insubordination, neglect, or incompetence. Steam-crane-drivers will be paid as Locomotive Firemen. Watchmen will be paid 425. per week. Gatekeepers will be paid from 30s. to 365. per week. Labourers will be paid 6s. 6d. per day. No one whose age exceeds thirty-five yeare will be admitted into this department, or who is unable to read and write. LOCOMOTIVE DEPAETMENT. Fitters, Turners, and other Tradesmen will be paid from Bs, to 10s. 6d. per day. Shop-Foremen, lis. to 15s. per day. Machinists, Strikers, and Sailmatcers, 7s. to 8s per day.

13

I.— IB

Apprentices will be taken into the Government shops, not under fourteen years of age, and not over seventeen years. Eates of pay, — s. d. s. d. Ist year ... ... ... 8 0 per week. sth year ... ... ... 180 per week. 2nd „ ... ... ... 10 0 „ 6th' „ ... ... ... 21 0 „ 3rd „ ... ... ... 12 0 „ 7th „ ... ... ... 24 0 „ 4th „ ... ... ... 15 0 „ Any Apprentice who before the age of eighteen shall pass the Junior Civil Service Examination, and before the age of twenty shall pass the Senior Examination, shall, so far as opportunities admit, be taught the business of a Mechanical Engineer. Cleanebs. Young men not under seventeen years of age, and not over twenty-two years, may be taken on as " Cleaners." Cleaners will be paid, — s. d. s. A. Ist year ... ... ... 5 6 per day. 3rd year ... ... ... 6 6 per day. 2nd „ ... ... ... 6 0 „ 4th „ ... ... ... 7 0 Cleaners will be promoted to Firemen, according to efficiency and good conduct, as vacancies occur. FIBEMEU". Every Fireman must have served as Cleaner. Firemen will be paid,— s. d. s. d. Ist year 7 6 per day }„, - 3rd year... ... 8 6 per day \ , , 2nd „ 8 0 „ j^tt class. | 4th 9 0 „ j"t class. Firemen after two years' service will be promoted to Ist class, according to efficiency and good conduct, and, if in all respects eligible, as vacancies occur. Enqinemek. Every Engineman must have served the full term as Firemen. He must pass an examination prescribed by the Locomotive Superintendent, to ascertain his fitness, before he takes charge of an engine. Enginemen will be paid, — s. d. s. d. Ist year ... 10 0 per day} 4th class ... ... 116 per day )- , . 2nd „ ... 10 6 „ [ 2nd class. sth „ ... ... 12 0 „ j lst™!' 3rd „ ... 11 0 „ ) But they will not be entitled to receive more than 10s. per day until their period of service in all capacities has reached seven years. Leading Drivers will be paid 13s. per day. Promotions of Enginemen from 2nd class to Ist class will be made as vacancies occur, according to efficiency and good conduct. Enginemen, before promotion from 2nd class to Ist class, will be required to pass an examination prescribed by the Locomotive Superintendent respecting tho working of the locomotive engine. Appointment of Leading Driver will be made as vacancies occur; only the most thoroughly trustworthy and skilled Drivers will be promoted to that position. Increases of pay to Cleaners, Firemen, and Drivers will depend upon their good conduct and careful attention to their duties. Promotion and increases are liable to be disallowed for insubordination, neglect, or incompetence. Running Shed Foremen and Shop Managers will be paid £4 to £6 per week.

PEEMANENT-WAY. Labourers will be paid 6s. per day. Special Hands will be paid 7s. per day. Gangers must be steady, trained men, able to read and write. They will be paid, — 3rd class ... ... ... Bs. per day. Ist class... ... ... 10s. per day. 2nd „ ... ... ... 9s. „ Inspectors will be paid,— Sub-Inspectors, lis. to 13s. per day. Bridge Inspectors, lis. to 13s. per day. Inspectors of Permanent-way, and Foremen of Works, 14s. to 17s. per day. Promotions will be made from the lower to the higher classes of Gangers, and from Gangers to Sub-Inspectors, and from Sub-Inspectors to Inspectors, according to ability and good conduct, as vacancies occur.

GENERAL. Cadets not under fourteen years of age will be taken into the Traffic Department and employed on the clerical staff. Cadets will be paid as follows : — Ist year ... ... ... £50 4th year ... ... ... ... £90 2nd „ ... ... ... £60 sth „ ... ... ... ... £105 3rd „ ... ... ... £75 Cadets living away from their homes when on duty, where house accommodation is not found, will be paid 10s. a week lodging allowance during the first year, 6s. a week during the second, and ss. a week during the third. The Clerical and Drafting Staff ytiA\ be classified and paid as follows : — 3rd class ... ... ... ... ... ... £120 per annum, rising £10 a year to £140 2nd „ ... ... ... ... ... ... £150 „ „ £10 „ £180 Ist „ ... ... ... ... ... ... £190 „ „ £10 „ £250 Special ... ... ... ... ... ... £250 to £300.

EEGULATIONS FOE OVEETIME WAGES IN THE PERMANENT-WAY, TRAFFIC, AND LOCOMOTIVE DEPARTMENTS. Peemanent-Way. Workmen are required to work eight hours per day, or forty-eight hours per week, for the authorized daily wages. The regular hours of work are from 8 a.m. to 5 p.m. on working days, with one hour off for dinner. Overtime to Labourers and|Tradesmen willjbe allowed for work ordered and done in excess of eight hours per day, subject to such regulations as may he from time to time issued. Overtime will be paid for at single rates between 5 p.m. and midnight, and between 6 a.m. and 8 a.m. Overtime worked between midnight and 6 a.m. will count as time and a half, except in the case of regular night-shifts not on work during the day, when only the single time will be counted. Sunday work will be counted as time and a half. Locomotive Rtjnnis-q. Ten hours or 100 miles, at the option of the Locomotive Superintendent, to count as one day's work for a Driver or Fireman. Overtime to be counted at tho rate of time and a quarter. Tkaeeic. Traffic employes will be required to work all trains on the advertised time-table without allowance for overtime • but, as far as possible, duties to be arranged to avoid overtime. Genebal. Half-pay will be allowed to employes suffering accident when on duty, if from causes beyond their own control, for the first three months, and quarter-pay for an additional three months.

I.—IB,

14

Enclosure 2. Statement of Work of Locomotive Running Gangs, for Period ending 29th April, 1882.

Average Time Paid for Average Pay. Average Time Paid for Average Pay. Gang No. Hours Hours Hours ti-_.+*_.„ Running. Shunting. Standing. uvertimeFiremen. Drivers. Gang No. Hours Hours Hours, overtime Running. Shunting. Standing. Firemen. Drivers. 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 26 27 28 29 30 31 32 33 34 35 36 37 38 39 40 41 42 43 44 45 46 47 48 49 50 51 52 53 h. m. 5 59 7 39 8 3 6 39 5 32 5 45 2 9 7 0 7 18 h. m. 34 1 55 h. m. 2 28 1 33 1 23 2 37 45 2 10 1 42 3 45 1 49 h. m. 45 25 11 2 3 5 s. d. 8 5 8 6 6 3 9 7 8 3 8 11 8 1 9 8 7 8 7 6 6 1 10 0 7 0 9 10 7 8 7 0 7 10 8 8 8 1 12 3 9 2 s. d. 12 2 11 8 10 2 13 10 12 1 10 0 10 0 13 0 10 6 13 3 10 2 13 5 7 4 12 0 10 0 9 0 10 0 11 3 13 0 16 11 13 5 11 2 14 7 14 1 15 3 10 9 14 6 12 0 15 7 13 11 13 11 11 1 11 11 14 2 8 7 12 0 10 4 8 7 10 4 9 2 9 9 9 5 10 11 10 6 11 0 10 6 12 0 12 11 12 11 13 6 10 11 13 4 15 1 77 78 79 80 81 82 83 84 85 86 87 88 89 90 91 92 93 94 95 96 97 98 99 100 101 102 103 104 105 106 107 108 109 110 111 112 113 114 115 116 117 118 119 120 121 122 123 124 125 126 127 128 129 130 131 132 133 134 135 136 137 138 139 140 141 142 143 144 145 146 147 148 149 150 151 152 153 154 155 h. m. 8 20 7 21 7 2 20 1 54 35 5 38 5 34 4 59 h. m. 1 4 1 21 11 34 4 30 6 58 8 20 3 1 2 8 3 56 9 44 1 50 1 50 4 37 4 47 1 45 1 54 3 2 3 39 2 22 5 26 3 28 2 48 2 34 10 46 9 14 2 15 3 39 9 13 9 55 2 13 1 63 10 12 10 21 4 11 9 15 3 37 10 28 3 4 2 48 10 7 9 18 6 15 8 55 3 21 3 36 5 31 3 5 2 50 10 5 2 55 1 45 1 12 1 10 1 28 10 5 2 21 1 9 7 33 2 17 3 3 11 2 24 3 7 2 43 2 3 3 56 9 45 2 15 10 0 2 22 8 33 2 45 10 5 32 7 10 2 59 2 46 3 51 1 17 h. m. 1 30 2 52 3 2 5 42 51 2 41 2 15 2 40 24 2 20 2 55 1 2 1 17 2 58 2 20 1 11 1 58 45 1 39 2 7 1 0 1 41 4 39 5 36 32 33 30 2 13 1 36 58 7 l 17 h. m. 45 1 41 " 18 s. d. 9 4 10 3 8 2 7 6 8 1 7 10 9 6 8 9 10 5 7 6 7 6 8 6 7 8 9 3 6 3 8 3 7 3 10 5 10 1 7 4 7 7 8 1 9 0 8 1 7 3 3 8 8 6 7 9 7 8 8 1 10 4 9 4 9 8 9 2 7 6 10 7 8 4 9 9 10 4 8 6 8 7 8 4 7 6 9 0 5 4 10 3 9 9 8 4 7 6 9 3 8 3 10 1 9 9 9 1 7 8 9 2 11 2 8 1 11 1 0 2 8 5 7 10 8 5 9 0 9 4 10 5 8 6 8 0 7 6 9 6 6 2 8 6 7 10 2 6 7 10 7 3 8 4 9 3 9 3 s. d. 13 1 14 6 10 6 10 4 10 0 11 9 12 5 12 4 13 11 10 6 12 0 12 10 10 3 12 3 12 3 12 2 12 2 13 4 13 6 10 0 12 9 10 8 11 8 10 6 11 8 12 4 12 0 11 0 11 8 10 0 14 6 14 1 12 11 11 6 10 0 13 6 13 4 14 1 13 11 10 0 9 8 11 6 10 6 10 7 15 0 13 8 13 4 12 0 10 0 11 4 12 3 14 10 15 9 10 10 12 3 13 0 15 10 10 0 14 7 0 3 11 10 12 0 10 11 12 0 12 5 14 10 14 0 12 0 10 0 12 11 11 6 13 8 11 0 12 10 11 9 10 1 12 0 13 2 12 1 6 57 2 15 1 48 2 0 10 1 4 14 1 18 2 59 6 55 6 0 10 45 3 23 5 16 9 15 5 23 3 15 8 19 8 13 1 6 9 6 8 20 4 17 1 59 6 1 19 7 50 2 17 2 24 2 31 2 51 6 28 5 51 6 51 4 54 4 54 6 10 4 33 5 6 3 40 3 20 3 1 6 55 4 0 6 50 3 0 3 0 3 5 2 31 3 20 7 16 -. 1 46 3 15 20 1 39 1 0 1 1 43 38 4 1 3 33 5 35 4 0 2 2 10 4 1 53 30 32 2 50 1 2 3 2 44 44 45 45 4 38 51 45 4 59 9 45 1 54 1 40 19 1 6 2 5 3 30 2 9 3 3 1 6 2 8 8 2 8 20 3 54 6 6 2 38 3 28 3 36 26 26 43 56 1 10 4 5 1 24 5 59 2 5 9 1 47 1 30 45 1 0 35 20 2 0 58 16 2 0 53 4 34 16 2 7 2 12 3 15 1 34 1 39 4 1 21 3 31 10 10 9 0 10 11 (i 10 8 5 9 0 10 4 9 10 10 6 7 6 8 6 10 9 6 8 3 9 7 4 6 11 7 1 7 1 7 6 7 1 6 11 9 4 10 7 9 5 9 4 10 3 10 3 10 3 9 10 9 6 10 8 4 58 6 0 4 1 5 25 7 0 6 39 5 49 5 58 8 8 2 35 4 45 6 15 5 29 17 1 4 4 47 57 39 4 12 6 27 1 23 26 5 29 2 0 6 34 26 6 34 8 20 55 14 55 11 52 7 1 16 1 0 32 7 7 27 7 14 2 8 1 41 1 23 29 1 14 4 1 1 1 1 19 1 7 1 15 52 1 0 1 0 1 0 47 17 1 51 46 1 2 18 2 17 1 6 5 16 7 49 4 24 7 10 2 2 1 34 36 2 36 38 44 34 1 1 27 1 20 51 1 18 1 54 5 8 1 24 54 1 47 1 17 32 2 31 2 0 1 8 1 44 1 0 4 8 4 8 2 31 1 41 32 1 6 i 2 10 2 52 2 52 2 30 4 12 2 22 4 10 38 38 48 24 2 42 2 36 7 59 6 6 8 26 9 8 7 39 47 6 29 8 20 2 14 7 44 6 5 37 4 53 5 43 5 3 5 43 5 58 1 33 1 48 1 13 1 23 1 13 1 12 4 5 5 1 39 2 39 1 59 1 11 1 33 1 58 2 20 15 1 0 14 9 1 7 1 9 33 32 41 2 35 h. 9 m. 0 2 30 1 0 8 3 12 1 54 55 56 57 58 59 60 61 62 63 64 65 66 67 68 69 70 71 72 73 74 75 76 i 6 0 8 35 8 37 5 5 29 1 10 5 20 7 7 24 6 30 7 42 5 26 7 39 24 7 41 6 21 2 22 5 6 28 5 48 5 59 7 38 1 0 1 20 2 13 9 52 4 27 10 35 4 52 10 23 1 19 2 36 2 4 2 30 1 4 8 38 2 3 2 8 1 7 8 30 50 2 59 3 32 41 3 7 42 1 31 17 44 4 1 13 41 1 33 1 4, 2 0 2 20 1 53 45 1 4 2 18 5 59 1 39 1 54 1 47 1 56 1 42 24 37 1 47 20 1 18 1 15 12 24 16 1 19 1 26 38 8 4 8 1 10 7 2 4 8 4 8 9 9 9 7 10 8 6 8 1 10 0 9 10 9 2 7 6 8 9 8 2 8 6 7 6 9 9 10 5 10 7 9 1 12 0 12 4 14 8 12 0 12 6 11 7 12 1 10 3 12 7 12 5 12 1 14 2 12 5 10 0 12 3 13 8 11 6 10 0 12 6 14 5 13 5 12 4 5" 0 1 45 "l4 21 '"l7 1 55 7 1 8 7 33 11 5 57 37 2 0 49 6 18 4 20 3 45 7 48 53 21 2 1 32 7 6 50 51 2 54 3 22 1 24 "38 35 ■ 24 55 10 5 43 1 37 1 19 14 "46 5

15

L—lb

* REMARKS OF THE LOCOMOTIVE SUPERINTENDENT ON THE PETITION OF DRIVERS AND FIREMEN, HURUNUI-BLLFF SECTION. 1. The original petition bearing the signatures of the men appears to have been forwarded in an irregular manner, and in breach of Rule 17, which must have been well known to the petitioners. As the original petition has not been forwarded to me I cannot report on the authenticity of the document, but I am in a position to say that, from what I can learn from men who did not sign, there are about two-thirds only of the hands who subscribed, and many of these only appended their names because they did not like to stand against the pressure brought against thera by their fellow-workmen. 2. The two previous petitions to the Minister were forwarded by me through the proper channel with the least possible delay, and the letters that accompanied them are doubtless attached to the documents in the record office. 3. Time. —The nature of the time-table, which is framed to suit the public convenience, makes it imperative that some men shall work long hours, some the standard of ten hours, and some very short hours. To prevent any injustice it has been the practice to change the runs of the men periodically, but, as a matter of fact, the men who are on the long runs prefer to stick to them rather than change, because they draw more money at the end of the month in the shape of overtime. The Locomotive Foremen, who are old drivers, promoted for good conduct and ability, recommend the amount of overtime to be allowed, but this recommendation is always strictly scrutinized in the office, and revised if thought to be unfair. One and two hours' overtime only is allowed in a good many cases where men are out about fourteen hours, but in these cases the men are off duty for four or five hours in the middle of the day. Of course they are occasionally called upon to work during that time or part of the time, but in that case they are allowed pay for the extra duty. Shunting is an intermittent service, and men do not get overtime unless they work over eleven hours, because we reckon an hour off at least in the period for meals ; on the contrary, men are frequently at work on shunting engines only seven or eight hours, but they always receive the full tenhour day's pay. Ballast-men have comparatively easy work, and work rather less, than more, than ten hours per day on the average. Nearly all overtime is worked regularly day by day, but occasionally, in busy times, it is necessary to send out men for an extra trip after their day's work. This is no doubt undesirable, but it is inseparable from the conditions of the working of all railways, and cannot be entirely avoided. In New Zealand there is very little ground for such a complaint. The " fair-day's pay for the fair-day's work," which the men explain as " the whole time on duty to be considered," is really the groundwork of the whole petition. They want to be paid for the time from first coming on duty in the morning till leaving off at night, irrespective of the amount of work done during the time ; or, in other words, the man who runs, say, a morning train out, and has several hours idle time in the middle of the day, wishes to receive the same amount of pay that a man who does double the work receives, because, from starting in the morning till leaving at night, he has been as long away from home, without any consideration for the amount of work performed. My analysis of the train-runs mentioned by the petitioners is given herewith. 4. Standing Time. —-Twenty minutes is ordinarily sufficient for the duties enumerated in this clause. When an engine is standing for any length of time, it is almost invariably in a shed, and the men are then at liberty to leave, and as a matter of fact do leave till time to prepare for the return trip. A few copies of ordinary sheets as returned by drivers are attached, to let it be understood what duties the haulage-sheets involve: they are sheets for ordinary main-line runs. Men are never fined except in cases of downright carelessness. On all railways of any importance the men have to keep runningsheets. Thirty minutes is a fair average time to get the engines ready ;in some cases it may take a little more, in others a little less. The fireman is paid for all the time he works, the same as the driver. The statement of the English practice is incorrect, and does not affect our regulations. Rules. 5. In some cases engines have to run tender first. This cannot always be avoided on any railway, and as our turning appliances are improved the necessity for doing this will be reduced. No man is ever blamed for what is not his fault. Complete sets of tools are provided for all engines, but they are frequently carelessly lost or destroyed. Drivers are instructed before taking charge of a strange engine to overhaul the tool-boxes, and report to their foreman any tools that are missing ; in the event of his having done so, he is relieved of responsibility. No matter by whom it is done, the boilers are always washed out by competent persons weekly. Sometimes a regular train not being required, the men are booked off duty. This may be said to balance the extra duty that is done when specials are required. As men get paid for working extra trains, they cannot expect to be paid when not working at all as well. As there are no shops available for the men to work in, we cannot employ them in the shops, and their services would be of little or no value in the shops, because they are not trained mechanics. Re Signals. —The statement is incorrect. Removing. —Although not obliged by rules to consider the convenience of the men in the matter of locating them, their wishes and interests are studied to a great extent by the department. Indeed, the service could be improved by making more such changes. Scale of Pay. —This, with the question of paying for standing time, is the real grievance of the men, but in my own opinion this is the only just cause of complaint. In 1877, on taking charge as Locomotive Engineer in Canterbury, I found no regular scale being worked to, and I posted a notice, founded on the regulations framed by the late Engiueer-in-Chief, Mr. Carruthers (a copy of whieh is attached), allowing the drivers to commence at lis., and after four years' service, with clean conductsheets, to rise to 13s. per diem. The scale has been altered three times since then, and has practically reduced the rate of pay Is. per diem. The Locomotive Superintendent does not allow whims or caprices to guide him in the discharge of his duties, and no man is ever fined unless for glaring negligence or disobedience.

Enclosure 1,

Enclosure 2

* This report was called for at the request of the Committee after Mr. Maxwell's examination.

I.—lb

16

Each day's work does stand for itself and is booked daily, but in the case of branch lines it is sometimes necessary to make such arrangements as will allow a i&\v-iveek's pay for a fair-week's work. Half-pay during sickness has not been allowed for some five and a half years, but if a man gets injured in the service, from causes that are not traceable to his own negligence or want of caution, he receives half-pay. This practice has invariably been observed. The aunual return of accidents will show that the dangers of engine-driving in this country at anyrate are not formidable. The practice of insurance companies does not affect the department. If the sister colony allows seven days' holiday, and that is held up as a reason for allowing more in New Zealand, it is only fair to quote the English practice, and that is: No man receives pay for time that he is not on duty who is paid for time worked over and above the regular day's work, or, in other words, who receives overtime. Besides lam informed that in New South Wales no overtime is allowed. The Court of Inquiry would be simply unworkable. The men get more leniency shown them than any private individual or private company could or would allow. It would be impossible for the men to substantiate grievances such as those mentioned in the petition. In conclusion, I have only to state that, if it is decided to give way to the wishes of the men in raising the scale of pay, and in paying for the standing time, which are really their only grievances, the departmental officers will be the first to rejoice at the change, because their duties will be greatly relieved ; and it will be a pleasure to see an efficient and estimable body of men highly paid, but it must be borne in mind that the expenses will be considerably increased. It must also be remembered that, although the majority of the men will be satisfied, there will be a considerable percentage of the more idle, careless, and discontented, whom it will be impossible to please, because, in the administration of any scale, it will be necessary to make a difference between men of different abilities and characters. Allison D. Smith, Locomotive Superintendent.

Enclosure 1.

(a) This service is worked by two sets of men, the average time on duty for each day being about nine hours. It is true that late trains are run two nights each week, but, even then, the average time each man is required to work does not exceed ten hours. (b) The goods trains upon the Lyttelton line are not timed, and vary according to traffic to be carried. I have examined a number of returns for the last, three months, and find the average time that enginemen work is about 9 hours 30 minutes. There may be special occasions where they have been out longer, but in every case justice has been done to the men. (<-) It is rather difficult to fix an average in this ease, for the train frequently only runs as far as Rangiora, and then the men have long standing time. Considering work done (82 and 63 miles), I think men are reasonably treated.

Service. Hours of Coming on Duty, as booked by Locomotive Foreman. Hour of Leaving Duty. Total Hours, as Divis: "c3 a s a 3 s w ION OP 4■a 02 or I. o _a _P>H _rd _§.a a o<8.2 H 'OTAL Stl .g ac 0 -^ .2 w OTJBS. o eg _ OJ § 'be P H T3 w 0 60 r_! _ IS S o « eg S 1*3 *S =3 oO g _- s "Sr-i — ate I - I * R preceding. m 3 _? W tfo. 1, Lyttelton Passengertrain Service H. M. (a) 6 0 a.m. (a)6 0 „ (0)6 0 „ (5)8 30 „ H. M. 12 0 p.m. 1 0 a.m. 10 30 p.m. 6 0 „ H. M. 18 0 19 0 16 30 9 30 H. M. 10 1 9 54 9 10 4 5 H. M. 6 34 7 1 6 15 5 10 H. M. 1 25 2 5 1 5 0 15 H. M. 184 184 167 79 H. M. 10 0 10 0 10 0 10 0 H. M. Days. 1 1 4 Ho. 2, Lyttelton Goods-train Service •Jo. 3, North Goods— To Amberley To Rangiora ... Ho. 4, South Goods •To. 5, South Goods (old time-table) Ho. 6, Christchurch-Timaru Ho. 7, Christchurch-Spring-field So. 8, Springfield-Christ-church Ho. 9, Ashburton-Christ-church Ho. 10, Ashburton-Timaru Ho. 11, Timaru-Ashburton Jos. 12 & 13, Oamaru-Timaru (c)5 30 „ (c)5 30 „ (d)4 15 „ (e) 4 0 p.m. (/)7 45 a.m. 0)6 30 „ 4 30 „ 4 20 „ 3 10 „ 3 30 a.m. 8 20 p.m. 8 10 „ 11 0 10 50 10 55 11 30 12 35 13 40 7 50 4 50 7 10 7 25 9 0 7 5 2 20 3 45 2 25 3 20 2 35 3 25 0 50 2 15 1 20 0 45 1 0 1 30 1 40 82 63 119 124 213 108 10 0 10 0 10 0 10 0 10 0 10 0 3 0 2 0 (h)6 0 „ 8 5 „ 14 5 5 50 3 55 2 15 2 5 111 10 0 2 0 ii) 6 20 „ 8 25 „ 14 5 6 40 4 50 0 30 2 5 135 10 0 2 0 0')6 5 „ (A)7 0 „ {1)6 50 „ (1)12 20p.m. (m)6 50 a.m. (re) 7 45 „ 8 45 „ 8 30 „ 4 0 „ 8 30 „ 8 15 a.m. 7 55 p.m. 14 25 13 30 9 10 8 10 13 25 12 10 7 0 6 40 5 43 5 48 7 15 8 28 2 10 2 30 1 20 1 3 1 50 2 5 2 50 1 50 2 7 1 19 1 55 1 37 2 25 2 30 107 109 112 110 120 168 10 0 10 0 10 0 10 0 10 0 10 0 2 0 1 0 Ho. 14, Timaru-Oamaru ... So. 15, Dunedin-Oamaru (express service) Ho. 16, Dunedin-Clinton ... Ho. 17, Clinton-Dunedin ... Ho. 18, Clinton-Invercargill— Saturdays Average for 5 days Hos. 19, 20, and 21, Invercar-eargill-Clinton 'nvercargill-Kingston Ho. 22, Lawrence Branch ... 1 25 10 2 0 (6)1 30 „ (_•>)5 30 „ 7 30 „ 9 35 „ 12 0 16 5 9 15 9 35 1 20 1 20 1 25 2 5 3" 5 154 154 10 0 10 0 2 0 3 0 (?)5 30 „ _)5 30 „ We 25 „ W9 45 „ W6 0 „ (.) 5 30 „ 10 5 „ 9 0 „ 5 25 „ 8 20 „ 8 0 „ 9 20 „ 16 15 15 30 11 0 10 35 14 0 15 50 9 40 9 30 8 55 8 25 12 15 7 40 1 40 1 50 1 10 1 55 1 0 3 30 0 40 0 40 0 55 0 15 0 45 0 50 4 15 3 30 142 143 139 144 180 117 10 0 10 0 10 0 10 0 10 0 10 0 2 0 2 0 3 "50 3 0 2 0

17

I.—IB

(d) This service varies according to requirements of traffic, and, as the men are not regularly working the train, and men frequently have days under ten hours, I see no cause for complaint. (e) As this was a night train it had to shunt upon arrival at Christchureh, consequently total time on duty would vary daily. (f) This is the express service between Christchureh and Timaru, and, although the men are on duty 12 hours 35 minutes, they receive full pay for the whole of the time and a little more, because we consider it one of the most difficult runson the section. A driver, therefore, earns 16s. 6d. for the 12 hours 35 minutes; and, from what I know of the men working this train, they would have a decided objection to be removed, for reasons slated in paragraph 3 of my letter attached. Moreover, engines of a certain class work the service, and it is absolutely necessary that the engines should be worked regularly by the same men. These enginemen have expressed themselves as perfectly satisfied. (g) The driver of this service arrives at Springfield at 11.10 a.m., and departs at 4.15 p.m. Shunting generally takes about two hours, and three hours is left for standing. The driver assures his Foreman he is perfectly satisfied with the pay and duties allotted to him. ih) Although the number of hours may appear excessive, yet the work, as a whole, is very light, and the engine frequently stands at Christchureh three, four, and five hours per diem. Sometimes the driver has a special train to run, but he is amply paid for all work performed, and is, I am informed, quite contented. (i) Whilst this table was in force the standing and shunting time varied considerably : sometimes the men were not required at all during the day, when the standing time would equal three, four, and five hours. On a whole I think the men are fairly paid. (j) The men working this service receive pay for twelve hours, and, in comparison to work done (107 miles), is a very reasonable rate of wages. They are sometimes called upon to shunt at Timaru for an hour or two, but this only happens in cases of emergency. The standing time generally reaches four or five hours per diem. (7c) Vide remarks (j) iishburton-Timaru. The men working this service generally stand from four to five hours at Ashburton. (I) I do not understand why this service has been quoted as one upon which men are worked an excessive number of hours, for it is, without exception, the easiest run on the whole of the section, the average time on duty just exceeding nine and eight hours respectively. (ni) Vide remarks (k) Timaru-Ashburton. The men working this service are sometimes called upon to run specials on Ngapara Branch, but receive extra consideration for it. (») My remarks upon express service, Christchurcb-Timaru, equally apply here ; the only difference being that the Dunedin men work five days per week of twelve hours each, and one short day washing out their engine, for which a full day's pay is allowed. (o) This service is worked alternately by men running express, Dunedin-Oamaru. It will be seen that full pay is given for the whole time on duty, no reduction being made for standing time. The driver runs five clays per week of twelve hours each, and washes out his engine, thus making one short day. I do not believe these men have any wish to change for a shorter run. (p) The engine for working this service stands at Dunedin about five hours each day, when the men are free to leave. This is, perhaps, one of the most difficult runs on the section, but the driver assured me he was perfectly satisfied with the remuneration he received, and did not wish any change whatever. He washes out his engine ou Sundays, and is allowed a day's pay for it. Vide memorandum attached, from Driver Sinclair. (q) The standing time at Invercargill generally reaches from four to five hours, and the driver is practically off duty, in addition to time shown hereon. A short day is-worked on Sundays, washing out, of about five hours, and a full day's pay allowed. (r) These services are worked in connection with one another, the three sets of men working alternately each week. In addition to the time noted hereon, as allowed, they have each week a short day, washing out, in some cases not exceeding five hours, for which a day's pay is allowed. On the whole, Ido not think the men have any cause for complaint, nor do I think they have lent themselves to agitate on the matter, because the Locomotive Foreman informed me that these men were quite contented with their work and pay. (s) These men also receive a day's pay lor washing out on Sundays, whieh operation does not generally exceed more than five hours. Since the 13th June this service has been worked on the three-legged system, thus each man only works sixty hours per week.

Enclosure 2. Memobandtjm for Engine-drivers, Firemen, and Cleaners. —In re Salaries and Wages. New Zealand Railways, Locomotive Engineer's Office, Christchureh, 4th September, 1877. The General Government system for working the Canterbury Railways, amongst other considerations, provides for the annual increase in salary of the men employed in the locomotive running department up to a certain fixed maximum, beyond which promotion depends entirely on individual merit. The scale is as under: — Engine-drivers start at lis. per diem, and increase at the rate of 6d. per day per annum to a maximum of 13s. per day. Firemen start at Bs. per diem, and increase at the rate of 6d per day per annum to a maximum of 10s. per day. Ten hours, or one hundred train-miles (at option of Locomotive Engineer), constitute a day's work ; and overtime will be paid at rate and a quarter. Sunday time at ordinary rates. Lad-cleaners, of not less than eighteen years of age, will receive ss. per diem, and 6d. per day per annum up to 7s. per diem. All these promotions depend entirely on the conduct of the man, his economy of stores, and general intelligence, as shown in the working of the engines or trains intrusted to his care; a book being kept in the office in which a record of all fines and complaints are entered. Men must not expect to receive the annual increase unless a perfectly clean sheet is opposite to their name. These promotions will all be regarded as though dated from the Ist day of July last. Allisok D. Smith, Locomotive Engineer.

By Authority : Geoege Diesbury, Government Printer, Wellington.—lBB2.