REPORTING DEBATES COMMITTEE (INTERIM REPORT OF THE).

Appendix to the Journals of the House of Representatives, 1877 Session I, I-09

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1877. NEW ZEALAND.

REPORTING DEBATES COMMITTEE (INTERIM REPORT OF THE).

JReport brought up Bth October, 1877, and ordered to be printed.

The Committee have the honour to report, that they have compared the proofs of the debate on the Hawke's Bay Land Transactions with Hansard, and they beg to submit to the House a copy of certain passages in the speech of the Honorable Mr. Ormond as printed in the original proofs, set forth in parallel columns with the same passages as reported in Hansard, showing the alterations made by Mr. Ormond. John Ballance, October Bth, 1877. Chairman.

EXTBACTS FBOM THE HON. Me. OhMOND's SPEECH ON THE 6TH SePTEMBEB, IN THE DEBATE ON Hawke's Bat Land Purchases. Peoof Copt.* HANSAED.f This land was, as the honorable member for Eangi- This land was the same block as the honorable tikei has (m4^ especially suitable for " smiling home- member for Eangitikei has described as especially steads." These gentlemen were already members of suited for "smiling homesteads." These gentlemen the landed aristocracy. And, Sir, what did the then were already members of the landed aristocracy; and, Governor do ? He offered to assist them by every Sir, what did the then Governor do ? He offered to means in his power. The gentleman to whom I have assist them by every means in his power to obtain referred immediately camo lioro; *hi 4 made arrange- more lands. The gentlemen to whom I have referred ments for getting possession of this land. But all of made arrangements for getting possession of this a sudden a difficulty arose with the Governor in land. But all of a sudden a difficulty arose with the regard to the subject. This association of gentlemen Governor in regard to the subject. This association suddenly found that it would bo difficult to parry out of gentlemen suddenly found the Governor cold, and what the Governor had wiohod thorn to-carry out. They that he had lost interest in the business. They had had looked upon this as a splendid investment, and looked upon this as a splendid investment, and they they were greatly disappointed to find a sudden were greatly disappointed to find a sudden check put check put upon them. * * * * upon them. * * * * * He get a share, and an agent was started off to the He obtained a share, and an agent was employed and land in question. It was arranged that this agent started off to secure the land in question. It was should be followed by thooo introductions and aoaiot arranged that this agent should be followed by introanco which the—Governor could give him. Sir, the ductions to the Native owners of the land from the Governor at that time was a Governor who had Governor. Sir, the Governor at that time was a special pewe? over the Natives who lived in outlying Governor who had special influence over those districts like Taupo, where the Maoris were shut out Natives who lived in outlying districts like Taupo, from the Europeans and from all European tki»gfe where the Maoris were shut out from the Europeans The agent went to Napier, and it is fortunate that he and from all European influence. The agent went to did so, because if he had not it-ia-pemiMe-that I would Napier ; and it is fortunate that he did so, because if not bo here—te-fligfat—to-pat—thie-matte^-ia—thf-prepe? he had not, the transactions I am describing would rest ligkti-e«d the fact of his going to Napier required on recollection only, but the fact of his going to Napier that letters should be written, and these letters now required that letters should be written, and these exist, ftftd can bo produced at any meaaeak What came letters now exist. What came next? Why, the * Words struck out in proof shown by erased type. t Words inserted and added shown by italics.

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Pboof Copt.* HANSABD.f next? Why, the agent was appointed a director of agent was communicated with by the director of the the association awl a member of the Legislative association, who was and is a member of the LegisCouncil, and he was the gentleman who wrote the lative Council; and he was the gentleman who wrote letters which are now in the next room. I do not the letters which are now in the next room. Ido want to bring in these letters unless lam challenged not want to bring in these letters unless I am chalto do so. lenged to do so. Sir G-. Grey.—Bring them in. Sir G. Grey.—Bring them in. Mr. Ormond. —I will produce them when lam Mr. Ormond. —I will produce them when the challenged to do oe? "Well, as I have said, the agent accuracy of my statements is challenged. Well, as I went to Napier, and the letters that he wroto are of have said, the agent went to Napier, and the letters particular interest. One of thoso letters is especially he received are of particular interest. One of those interesting. It aayo : " Hurry oil with thio tranoaction. letters is especially interesting. There is a pannage Go up and ooattor a littlo ground ba&- Those were the like this : " Could you not go up again and use your instructions given by the association with which the influence on the spot ? We must be prepared to sow Governor was connected. some ground-bait, I suppose, and you must use your discretion as to this, and I shall at once provide the needful" Those were the instructions given by the director of the association with which the Governor was connected. Sir G. Grey.—Who was the agent ? Sir G Grey.—Who was the agent ? Mr. Ormond.—Mr. Locke. Mr. Ormond. —Mr. Locke. Mr. Stout. —Name the writer of the letters. Mr. Stout. —Name the writer of the letters. Mr. Ormond. —The Hon. Mr. Russell, a member Mr. Ormond.—The Hon. Mr. Eussell, as member of the Legislative Council. Ido not want to conceal of the Legislative Council. Ido not want to conceal the name, and if the letters are wanted my friends the names, and if the letters are wanted my friends horo will produce them. That was one of the in- can produce them. That was one of the instructions structions given by tho Governor of tho Colony, who given. The next letter that I remember of interest wno a party to thio tranoaotion. The next letter that in this matter was [ remember of interest in this matter was Mr. Bees. —Why do not you get the letters? Mr. Rees.— Why do not you get the letters. Mr. Ormond. —Oh, Ido not want them. The next Mr. Ormond. —Oh, Ido not want them. Irecolletter said this: "You must not delay any longer, led their purport. The next letter said something Go on. We are urgent in this matter, and enclosed like this: " You must not delay any longer. Go on ; in my letter are those letters of introduction which we are urgent in this matter, and enclosed in my the Governor promised ; thooo arc tho lottoro that will letter are those letters of introduction which the onablo you to go up and got poooonoion of tho country. Governor promised." Sir, the House will well Tho Govornor'a influonoo io groat, and thooo lottoro aro understand that the influence of the Governor in novr cent to tho ygtivco." Sir, the House will well those days was very different from what it is now understand that the influence of the Governor in among the Native people. The Governor himself those days was very different to what it is now among teas then personally acquainted with the individual the Native people". And it would bo greater if the Natives, which was the case in this instance. Another Governor himself had boon personally acquainted letter written by Mr Russell to Mr. Locke I rememwith the individuals, which was the case in this ber, which says : " I have written to Whitmore on the instance. Tho agent got thooo lottoro. Another «n4e«s subject, and it is agreed now to take him into the whole thing took place. A: letter weat written by Mr. concern, the Governor, for reasons of State, thinking it Russell to Mr. Locke, saving, " Still go on—urgent, letter at present that he should not be in the concern. Go on with thio buoinooo, but for State roaoono do not Another moneyed man will be in his place, however. let the name of the Govornor appear." These are Cox has letters from the Governor." These are abaoabsulutely the words used: "Do not lot tho name of lutely the words used, and so the correspondence tho Governor appoar for Stato roanona." And so the went on. I have described the transaction as I have correspondence went on. Tho agent went up thoro. I heard it, and what I say can be verified by an honorhave oorreutly described the transaction, and what I able member of this House (Mr. Cox). I may also say can be verified by an honorable member of this name the Hon. Colonel Whitmore and the Hon. Mr. House (Mr. Cox), aa4 I may also name the Hon. Russell as having been members of the company, and Colonel Whitmore and the Hon. Mr. Russell, who there were also other gentlemen. That is, as nearly wac anothor party to it. There were other gentlemen, as I can remember, a correct account of the letters and but I nood not namo thorn, ao they are not Wo. The the statements made to me on this subject. I will now letters and the statements mado to mo ohow mo that read to the House what took place in this House last OTcrytliinf I havo otatod horo to nif-ht io true I will session in reference to the transactions to which I now read°to the House what took place in this House have alluded. * * * in reference to eael* transactions ao thooo to which I haVe alluded. * * * * * I say this was done by one who had the power in hio I say this was done by one who had the power from hnnda, and that he prostituted his position in being a his position, and that he prostituted his position in party to such a transaction. I say distinctly and being :i party to such transactions. I say distinctly absolutely that I have the letters which doooribo what and absolutely that the letters I have referred to conI have stated —which ohow that the statements are firm what I have stated ; that the statements are true, and the honorable member for Waipa yearo ago true, and that the honorable member for Waipa told told me of this transaction. me of these transactions. ****** ****** * Words struck out in proof shown by erased type. t Words inserted and added ahowu by italics.

By Authority: G-eorgb Didsbuey, Government Printer, Wellington.—lB77. Price 3d.]