PROVINCIAL COUNCIL.

Wellington Independent, Volume XXVI, Issue 3148, 15 March 1871, Page 2

PROVINCIAL COUNCIL.

TUESDAY, 14th MARCH. The. Speaker took the chair at 3 p.m. The minutes were read and confirmed. MESSAGE. A message was read from his honor the Superintendent, thanking the Council for their resolution, aud announcing his intention to resign at the close of that sitting. MAP OF THE PROVINCE. Mr PHARAZYN asked the Provincial Secretary — When a map of the province upon a large scale, showing the freeholds, tho boundaries of runs, their acreage, with the names of their owners, the native reserves, and every other detail necessary for enabling intending purchasers to distinguish readily land still open for sale, would be ready for public inspection and use, and when such maps would be lithographed in a convenient form for sale to the public, in accordance with the resolution of the Council of 24th July, 1870. Mr HALCOMBE snid ho really had not had time to attend to the matter. IU3IUTA.KA. ROAD. Mr BUNNY asked what the Government intonded to do with regard to tho closing of the Wairarapa road over the Rimutaka. Ho was informed that there was not enough hands; ho trusted a work of such vital importance to the province would be conducted with more vigor. Mr HALCOMBE said the Government wore using their utmost endeavours in tho matter. They had sent up orders to employ as many rneu as they could, in order to open the road as soon as possible, and ho believed a bridle track was now opon. Mr Baird, tho engineer, would in a few days bo in f own and more vigorous stops would be at once taken. With regard f;o the want of organisation, hon. members would see that in a work requiring attention at so many points, it was not usual to effect tho necessary alterations instantaneously. EXPLANATION Mr BRANDON said, after what had passed the other night, he had deemed it his duty to \ sendin his resignation, which hedid ; but under the peculiar circumstances of tho case, ho consented, at the request of tho present Su- | perintendent, to sit in office until the appointment of the new Superintendent, so as to get through what business there was until that time. He merely did so in order that the business of the province might not suffer. Mr HALCOMBE said, also in explanation, \ hat finding that his Honor tho Superintendent refused the resignation of his colleague, he then tendered his resignation ; but that his Honor refused to accept it, alleging as a reason for not doing so that he was going to resign so shortly ho did not think it advisable to appoint a fresh Executive for such a brief period. COMPENSATION CLAIM. Mr HALCOMBE moved— That a respectful address be presented to his Honor the Superintendent, requesting him to place upon the Estimates tho sum of £575 to carry out tho decision of tho Buck & Keniblo Compensation Committee. Mr BORLASE gave his version of the facts of tho case. The CouiK'il wenfc into committee Mr BUNis r Y, in, speaking to the motion, soon diverged from the more immediato point under discussion, and confined his remarks chiefly to the action of his Honor in not accepting the resignations of the Executive. Tho lion, gentleman characterised the conduct of the Executive in consenting to retain office at the wish, of his Honor, after expressing their desire to resign,as very indecisive. He thought tho timo had arisen when the Council should refuse to be dictated to and treatod as more Children, who had no minds of their own, or not capable of thinking for themselves. The Council had a right to ask at that time who was tho Government, or who were going to bo ; it was not for the Superintendent to say to them, " I will permit no change ; I will have the thing go down as it has been j I don't care what becomes of the province." Mr W. MILNE rose to a point of order. Ho thought the hon. member for Wairarapa had wandered into irrelevancy. Mr DKANSFIELD aiso thought the proceeding most irregular. Acting on"the ruling of the Chairman of Committees (Mr Renall), Mr BUNNY then moved that progress bo reported. Mr BORLASE wished things to be conducted in a somewhat orderly manner ; there was no use going into exciting diaoussions in the present state of the Government of the province. It was useless to go into any important business until the appointment of the new Superintendent. He had, however, no objection to discuss such matters as were required for the carrying on of urgent business that did not involve questions of policy. Mr PHARAZYN entirely sympathized with the expressions of the hon. member for the Wairarapa. He could not choracterise his Honor's conduct as other than the greatest pioce of head-strong opposition he had ever seen ; and ho objected to going on with any business until the formation of a new Government. Mr WATT entirely disagreed with the tendency of the remarks of the hon. member of the Wairarapa as being out of order. He also objected to bring the business of the country to a standstill in that manner. Mr DRANSFIELD thought the course pursued by the hon. member for the Wairarapa was rather hastily considered, and was hardly proper after the explanations of tho two members of the Executive. I could not be considered as other than captious, and he did not think it was fair to those gentlemen. As for making it an opportunity for a personal attack upon his Honor, he thought was going entirely from the point. Mr BUNNY submitted that it was perfectly competent for any member of the Counoil to take any action he thought proper, to ascertain the exact position of the Government. When the Superintendent told them he was goiug to resign after this sitting, was it to be supposed that they were goiug to discuss all the business before the Council at that ono sitting. They must either do that or cease to do any business, for after the resignation of his Honor anything they might do would be invalidated. It would not be wise to go any further with the business of the Council in such a Dtate of affairs ; and he for one was not prepared to go on with the business. Mr BRANDON said the speaker showed by his romarka a perfect ignorauce of the position. They had a perfect right to resign, but his Honor had also a perfect right to refuse to accept that resignation ; and they were not justified in bringing tho businsss of the province to an instantaneous standstill such as was recommended by the hou. member for tho Wairarapa. They had no desire to carry out any muasures of policy or finance ; they were merely willing to assist the Council in the discusßion of tho business on tho orders of the day. Ho trusted the Council would see the matter in tho same light, and consider such business as required immediote consideration, postponing tho other matters if necessary until tho appointment of the new Superintendent and another Executive. Mr BORLASE thought tho conduct of the hon. member for the Wairarapn, in attacking his Honor at that particular time, and especially after the action of tho Council, showed a great want of taste. It reminded him of tho donkey kicking the doad lior, Mr BUNNY thought it looked more like the dead lion being determined to bo better than a live donkey. Ho would, however, like to explain the reasous which had conduced to his taking Buch a course. He would not have had anything to say in the matter had he not been communicated with by a member of the late — he would not say present — Executive. Mr Halcombo had informed him that Mr Brandon had resigned, and intimated that he (Mr Bunny) might occupy the vacated position with benefit to the country, and that he (Mr H.) would be glad to have him foracolloague, to assist him in carrying on the business of

tho province, at least till the end of the session. (He trusted the reporters would take care that the public knew the particulars of the case.) He had no particular desire for the office himself, had not sought it ; and when he had promised to lend his assistance in conducting the business of the province, he stipulated that it should not be necessary that the person who might take Mr Brandon's office should be a legally qualified member of the law, as was required by the act ; but he intimated at the same time that personally he would take no steps to obtain the amendment of the Executive Council Ordinance. If that were done, he would not object to take a seat in the Executive. He was sorry Mr Halcombe had not shown a more determined will in the mattor. after saying he would not sib again on the Government benches with his colleague, Mr Brandon. His Honor, nor any 'other man, couid make him (the speaker) continuo a moment in an office he wished to resign. Ho went thus into particulars because lie felt he had not been treated fairly in tho matter, not that he had any desire to take office, unless by tho wishes of his friends in the Council, and in tho hope that the province might be benefited ; and he thought the province might be worse served than by Henry Bunny. He regretted that the very last act of the Superintendent should have been of such a kind, because it was placing the province in a vnrso position. He did not like to see poople set up Dr Feathorston and worship him as the only god, the chief worshipper boing tho Provincial Solicitor. The real fact of the matter was, and he did not mind a bit in saying it, was that Dr Feather3-.on did nob care what came of the province, bub was determined, so long as ho was Superintendent, tint Henry Bunny should nover be a member of the Executive. That was the real position, and ho felt rather proud of it. Tho action of his Honor would place tho province in a position of deeper difficulty than it was in before. Mr BORLASE again pointed out tho irregular nature of the discussion. When Mr Halcombe conferred with Mr Bunny he was as much a private member as any of the Council ; and it would be very strange indeed if: tho two hon. members could be permitted to form a self constituted Government without the sanction of the Council. Considerable discussion ensued as to tho irregular nature of the proceedings, in the course of which Mr W. Milne called Mr Pharazyn to account for having said that the Provincial Solicitor had not the confidence of the Council, and that he should have done so in the usual manner, by tabling a motion. Mr Phaeazyn said that course would involve the necessity of his taking office, and that ho did not wish to do. Mr Moroan asked was there to be no head, no leader, nobody to look to to see that their urgent business was carried on by somebody the Council had confidence in? Mr Thynne condemned the action of Mr Bunny as cbstructivo, and the result o£ personal hostility. Mr Bunny then proceeded to lecture Mr Thynne, who, as a very young man, inspired with a very laudable ambition, should learn to practise more modesty, and above" all, learn to leave Mr Henry Bunny, alone. Mr Mr Beandon suddenly reminded Mr Bunny that the business before the Council was not tho lecturing of " very young"£man. Mr Bonny admitted the fact. Possession of the floor was then taken by Mr Anderson, who only referred to the question before the Council in the first sentence, and then dashed knee deep into his Honor's speech, his finance, his character and conduct generally, especially in the present juncture. Notwithstanding what other people might say, or what action had been taken by the Councilin requesting by resolution that his Honor should resign, ho thought his Honor should not have availed himself of such a magnanimous offer ; and to leave the province at the present moment was cowardly and treacherous, and a great deal mere in tho same strain. Hon. members then began to seize their hats and drop out of the room one after another. Tho Chairman •apparently dreading a count out, checked Mr Anderson's impetuous flow. The hon. member bowed to the ruling of the Chairman, but finished his diatribe. The Council then adjourned until half-past seven. On the Council resuming, Mr HALCOMBE asked that the second reading of THE MASTERTOU TBUSTS BILL be' deferred until after the second reading of THE PATENT SLIP BILL. The Council then went into committee on the bill, Mr Renall taking the chair. Mv BORLASE asked that progress be re« ported before going into the discussion of the bill. He had been asked by Mi- Johnston, a supporter of the bill, to geb a clause introduced securing that no larger charges be made than was customary in tho other colonies. Mr HALCOMBE asked the hon. member to withdraw his amendment. The intention of the framer of the bill was to put into the bill that the original block of land mentioned in the original contract should be chosen and that would require a fresh survey. Mr BORLASE was willing to withdraw his motion if the Government would accede to his wish to protect the public in the matter of charges. The bill was incomplete in its present form. Mr HALCOMBE could not acknowledge that the bill was incomplete ; but he thought the Provincial Solicitor would have no objection to meet the wishes of the hon, member in any reasonable way. Mr BUNNY could not think it advisable to carry the motion of the hon. member, as it would be virtually shelving the bill, as it was probable that they might not meet after that sitting. MR ANDREW could not see the immediate necessity of passing tho bill. Six weeks hence, when they had a new Superintendent, would be sufficient time. The discussion showed the danger there was of hasty legislation on such a measure. v Mr HUNTER said tbe motion of Mr Borlaso had an element of reason in it, but all these objections would be dealt with in the contract ; but it was not a contract they were dealing with ; it was simply a bill. He felt that if the bill was not passed, the matter would bo shelved. The whole thing would fall to the ground if power was not given to the Agent-General to negociate the matter at once. He trusted the Council would not now reopen a matter which had already been very fully discussed. The subject was one of great importance to the province, and he trusted Mr Andrew would therefore withdraw his amendmont. As to the difficulty about the schedule, there was an act of Assembly, giving the Superintendent power to take laud on valuation, and it was quite possible that a company here might not like the site selected by Messrs Kennard. There would therefore be a difficulty in making the schedule very precise. Mr BORLASE said that tho great difference between tho old bill and the present one was, that the old one gave the power to a Superintendent, who was to be guided by his Executive, and who was responsible to the province. The new bill gave all the power to an irresponsible Agent- General. As a guardian of tho public interest, he would press that the safeguard he had mentioned be inserted in the bill. No one had taken a groater interest in the passing of tho bill than Mr Johnston, and ifc was in accordance with a promise to that gentleman that ho now brought forward his amendment. Mr HUNTER said that already by the last act passed, the Council had given the Superintendent unfettered power to act in London in tho matter. Dr Featherston was likely to be quite as careful of the interests of the province as Agent-General as he was of Superintendent. The matter might be safely left in his hands. Mr BORLASE said the old contract was not only subject to the approval of the Superintendent but also to that of the Counoil afterwards; He again urged that there might be circumspection in the matter he mentioned. Mr HALCOMBE then proposed a resolution, which, he thought, would meet the objections of the hon. member to the following

offecfc :— That all the safeguards proposed in the Kennard contraot Bhould be inserted in any contract entered into by Dr Featherston, except as regarded the teßting of the slip, either by the contractor or the Superintendent: After some further remarks from ths Provincial Solicitor and ether members. Mr ' BUNNY thought the Government could perhaps tell them if the Council was going to meet to-morrow, and if bo, the Government could bring down the resolution spoken of, so that members could bring some thought to the discussion of the matter. Mr BRANDON thought in each a case, he might say that the Superintendent would not resign, but would allow the Council time' to consider this proposed measure of protection. Mr LUDGAM did not suppose that; his [ Honor would resign after that sitting, and I therefore there was no reason for such extreme^p^, hurry. It seemed to him that all necessary ~' safeguards should be embodied in the bill. They were bound, in parting with their powers, to see that some arrangement was come to as would be satisfactory to the majority of the Council. Mr ANDREW asked to withdraw his motion, which, on being agreed to, the hon. member asked that progress bo reported, and leave be given to sit again to-morrow. Some discussion ensued, in the course of which Mr Andebson said that it appeared that the project of the company was still in embryo, and that was a good reason for postponing consideration of the bill till after the election of a new Superintendent. They could post instructions toDr Featherston. It was foolish, hazardous, and hasty to commit the province. Hie own opinion was that delay would be an excellent thing under the circuuistances. Mr HUNTER said the tenor of the hon. member's remarks were inconsistent. He failed to understand or comprehend that Mr Kennard was fully represented on the spot, and that was the reason for pushing the matter on. Otherwise, it would lead to an immense loss of time. Ho did not speak in favor of the passing of the bill with any object of benefiting himself, as had been insinuated. Theve was no wish to gain any advantage in any way, but it was necessary in , order to induce auy person to join the company, for unless the Provincial Government would give their guarantee, no company would take it up. Mr Kennard had no objection to testing the slip — had always expressed himself willing to do so — but would not agree to incur the expense of bringing a slip here specially for the purpose Mr DRANSFIELD said the subject had been so often talked over that he confessed he was surprised at hearing such rot and rubbish ; it was absolutely disgusting, and he had almost made up his mind to never speak on the subject. He was surprised at the remarks of Mv Ludlam especially, a man of well known ability, and one from whom common sense would be expected ; and even Mr Anderson also, who, in a great measure, owed his seat in the Council to his promises to support in every way the erection of a slip, to now turn round and oppoae it with all the vehemence in his power ; he confessed it staggered him, and he had no pationce with such people. Mr "W. MILNE thought the province was fairly bound in honor to take advantage of such a good opportunity. Mr BORLASE said there was no question before them as to the necessity or advisability of having a patent slip ; that had been settled. It was merely a question of adding safeguards to the Patent Slip Act to protect the interests of the public from any probable infringement of them by the company. If tho Government could not do that to-day let them do it to-morrow. There was no intention to prevont the erection of the slip. Mr PHARAZYN thought ib would be a dangerous thing to imperil the bill by tamporing with it. It would be more advisable to take some other course to obtain the object desired by members opposing tho passing of the bill by resolution or otherwise, rather than by altering the nature of the bill, which had been prepared with a great deal of oare. '•> Mr FAGAN thought if it was at all practicable that either the motion of Mr Borlase, or that of Mr Halcombe, should be added to the bill. The importance of the work, and the large expense to which the provinoe would be pledged justified the taking of every precaution to secure the province.Mr WATT said it did not matter whether the Superintendent went away to-morrow or six weeks hence, as. regarded the passing of the bill, but as Messrs Kennard'a agent, Sir Charles Clifford, was in a hurry to go away, it was necessary that the bill should be passed as expeditiously m possible. Mr BRANDON then moved that the Chairman leave the chair for the purpose of recommitting clause three. On the motion to report progress, and ask leave to sit again to-morrow, a division was called for by Mr Akdbew. The division was as follows :— Ayes, 6 ; Noes, 16. The ayes were— Messrs Morgan, Thynne, Ande^on, Hutchison, Andrew, Ludlam. Progress was then reported for the purpose of introducing another clause in the bill. Mr BORLASE then proposed the insertion of the following clause — That in making any compact no higher charge shonid be made than those charged in any of tho neighboring provinces or colonies. Some dieoussion ensued on the merits of this resolution, Mr Htxnteb opposing ib on the ground that the resolution was unnecessary, Mr Borlase, on the other hand, contending that the former contract and tho present bill diffeied entirely, inasmuch as before the Superintendent was entrusted with certain powers, though he was responsible to the Council; while in the present arrangement he was not amen* able to the Council in any way. Mr MastebS supported the passing of the bill. Mr HuiOHinson said there was no objoction to the passing of the bill ; all that was desired was that the interests of the province would be protected. Mr Peaboe urged the hon. member for the city to withdraw hip motion. Mr Boblase wanted to know whether the hon. members and others who were in favor of passing the bill, were attempting to make better terms for themselves, as they were really the only persons who were offering obstructions to the passing of the bill. Mr Peabce objected to any such term, as they were all there as representatives of the province, and not as shareholders of any company. Mr Bunny urged the further consideration of the bill to-morrow. He thought the Exeoutive might urge upon his Honor to delay his resignation for a day or two, to admit of the further consideration of the bill. Mr HALCOMBE said his Honor deprecated the idea of foroing the Council to get through any business in any specified time. The Government were prepared to bring down resolutions affirming the necessity that existed for certain points being attonded to in giving the necessary power to his Honor. The motion of Mr Boblase was then put, and tho Council divided with the following result : — Ayes, 6 ; noes, 14. The ayes were— Messrs Borlase, Hutchison, Thynne, Fagan, Taylor, Morgan. Mr HALCOMBE then moved that the schedule be read. Read and passed. The preamble was then read, amended, and passed. The bill as amended was then reported, and the amendments ordered to be taken into consideration to-morrow. I MASTEBTON TBUBTS BILL. Mr BRANDON moved the second reading of this bill. i Mr RENALL pointed out Borne amendments which would be requisite to enable the^— ■ bill to be worked. He thought the betteß^ .course would be to postpone further consider^" V ! ation of the bill for a month or six weeks, and in the meantime call a meeting at Greyttwa and Masterton. Mr BUNNY doubted whether the Council had power to alter the arrangements regarding the trusts made by the General Assembly. The bill was then read a second time. THE GBEXTOWN TBT3ST3 k BII/3i was then read a second time.