GENERAL ASSEMBLY.

Wellington Independent, Volume XVII, Issue 1760, 30 August 1862, Page 3

GENERAL ASSEMBLY.

HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES. Monday, August 25, 1862. The SPEAKER took the Chair at ly o'clock. Papers. The Hon. C. WARD kid on the table, " Further Papers relative to the Steam Postal Service." Reports of the Debates. Mr. FITZGERALD moved, "That, in the opinion of this House it is essential in order to secure proper responsibility of members of this House to the constituency of the Colony, that full and accurate reports of the debates in this House be published by the authority of this House, and that it is expedient that the Government should take steps for securing this end before the next session of the General Assembly." He contended in proposing this resolution, that there was not a sufficient newspaper staff" in the colony to ensure full and accurate reports of the proceedings of the House, and he therefore thought the Government should take action in the matter. It was of the utmost'inrportance not only that members of the House "should have their views sent forth, but } also that constituents should be afforded a fair opportunity by that means of judging what was the political conduct of their representatives. Mr, OAIILETON thoroughly convinced of its necessity, would second the motion. =--Some further discussion ensued on the part of Mr. O RORKE and Mr. FITZGERALD, at the 'close of which the motion was agreed to. ..; Nominated Superintendents' Bill—second reading, adjourned debate on the question. That the .Bill be read a second time this day six months. "Mr. FOX in resuming the debate on this measure, said that if it were proposed that Superin- . indents, should be nominated by the Governor •"'fflbhi)",' they would have no constitutional interest in the colony, and would feel themselves under the control of the Colonial Office. Under such a : - system men would come out from Downing-street with letters of recommendation to the Governor, ana-if appointments were made from, a class like that, the interests of the Provinces would be neg-

lected. They were not justified in depriving the people of their constitutional rights, and the hon gentleman (Mr. FitzGerald). who was the proposer of this Bill, should have for his epitaph, " This was the man who destroyed the Constitution of New Zealand." i Mr. WELD said he should not be inclined to vote j for this measure if he thought it would lake from the people any privilege, it was well understood the term " Governor," meant the Governor in Council, and therefore the argument would be lost, for we should not have men sent out from I the Colonial Office, Mr RENALL did not feel himself entitled to vote for tliis Bill, until he had seen his constituents and consulted with them as to whether such a measure was desirable The Bill did not alter the powers of the Saperintendent- and seemed only to make him nominative instead of elective, and 1 he thought the people were quite capable of , selecting their own Superintendents. Mr. STAFFORD thought the balance of the argument was in favour of nominated Superintendents, and should vote for the second reading i of the Bill Dr. FEATHERSTON said the hon. member for Elleamere had attempted to throw dust in the eyes of the House, by concealing the real character and objects of the Bill. He (the proposer) was bound to show that the people desired such a 1 change, before he came forward with such a proposition. There had not even been a public meeting calling for any change, in fact, he had heard no arguments in favour of such a measure, ' except within the walls of the House. It was attempted to show that there were evils in the present system, but no evidence had been adduced to support that view. The hon. member in a lengthened and eloquent speech, defended the • elective system, which he contended, had never been abused by the people, and combated the idea that better men could be sent out by the , Colonial Office, than were to be found in the ranks of the people themselves. Mr. J. C. RICHMOND assumed that the Bill , did not really take away any power from the people, and though admitting that Superintendents under the pressnt system had been guily of very few errors, yet he thought it his duty to vote for the second reading. The Hon. Mr. D. BELL would oppose the second reading, because the people had never expressed a, wish for such a piece of legislation, and also because by the provisions of tho Bill, they might have a nominated Superintendent in one province, and an elected one in another. Mr. FITZHERBERT was glad to hear that the Native Minister would not support this Bill and thought his argumeut was conclusive, when he had said, that a change could not be made in the Constitution, without consulting the voice of the people. His hon. friend the Superintendent of Wellington, had exhausted all the arguments against it ; and the member for Omata in opposing tbe resolution, evidently did so, merely for the sake of argument: The hon. member for Ellesmero had not made out his case, he had not shown that either the people or the press, were in favor of the Bill ; or even that Provincial Councils were opposed to the elective plan. His (Mr. Fitzherbert) constituents had offered to petition against the measure, and he would use his utmost efforts to prevent its being run through the House in this hasty manner. Ho contended, that important constitutional changes should not be made, unless the cry for them originated amongst the people ; whereas in the present case, they were acting on the principle of legislating first and afterwardi asking the consent and approval of their constituents to the measures. Ho protested against important legislation of this kind, being initiated by a private member, and was of opinion, that it should have emanated from the Government. Mr. FITZGERALD having addressed the House at considerable length in support of his views, and in reply to the arguments brought forward in opposition to the Bill. The amendment was then put, and the House divided with the following result. Ayes 22. Noes 20. Wilson Ormond Watt * Carter Richmond A. J. Featherston JolJie Fitzherbert O'Neill O'Rorke Carleton Monro i Atkinson Harrison Stafford Moorhouse Butler Wood Mason Taylor, W. W. , Weld Dick; * Cookson Renall Gjllies Taylor C. Richmond, C. J., Thompson Domett Williamson, John Nixon Fox Colenso Bell Russell, Cargill Williamson James Henderson Graham R. Richardson, Major (teller) Welh Fitzgerald (Teller) The original motion was then put and agreed to. The Bill was then read a necond time, and ordered to be committed on Tuesday next. EVENING SITTING. Native Lands Bill — sclond reading. The debate upon this Bill occupied the whole of the evening sitting. W e propose to give a full report in our next. TUESDAY, AUGUST 2f)TH. The Speaker took the chair at 12 o'clock. Petition. Mr. WARING TAYLOR presented a petition from William McLeod Bannatyne, Chairman of the Wellington Chamber of Commerce. Petition read and received. Vote of thanks to the Superintendent. Mr, THOMSON moved— "That the thanks of this House be given to his Honor the Superintendent of Wellington, and the Government of that Province, for the liberal and satisfactory manner in which they have provided lor the accommodation of the Assembly." He said in bringing forward the motion which stood in his name on the paper, he had thought it advisable in compliance with the suggestions of several members, to divide it into two parts, the first of which he would now propose, and the second ho would introduce afterwards. He had taken this course because he thought every one would be willing to have a vote 1 of thanks given to the Superintendent and Government of the Province, whose exertions in their behalf had been beyond all praise. The ' motion was agreed to. Next Session's Assetnbli/. Mr. THOMPSON then moved— ""That in the 1 opinion of this House, the next Session of the 1 Assembly ought to bo held in Wellington." He ' remarked that no one but could have seen from , 1 the division on the Seat of Government question 1 that the days of Auckland were numbered. If ; Otago sent the additional members which this 1 House had recently granted, then their extra aid being thrown into the scale in favor of Wellington, would carry the point at some future time. He 1 thought if this motion were carried for tho meeting of the Assembly at Wellington, it would be productive of both convenience and benefit to the ' South. Mr. MOORHOUSE seconded the motion. Mr. CRACROFT WILSON rose to move as an ! amendment that tho word Ohristchurch should be substituted for that of Wellington, and in doing bo ■ explained that his reason for voting against the " removal of the Seat of Government, was that he r did not wish any interference to take place for at I least 12 months with Sir George Grey's plans for p the Government of the Natives. He was however 1 of opinion that it could not remain long at Auckt- land. He would now move the amendment and • hoped the hon. member for Heathcote would * second it.

Mr. CARLETON thought that tha better course to adopt would be to move an amendment to the effect the decision of the place be left to His Excellency. Mr. COLENSO in referring to the argument that the next session ought to be held here on account of convenience, thought that the proposal of moving about the papers and documents of the Government would never a^ain be mooted after tue loss which had been sustained by the wreck of the White Swan. The amount of that loss to the Colony would not be less than £5000. independent of the documents. He trusted the motion would not be pressed by the Wellington members. Mr. MOORH- )TJSE quite concurred with the idea that it was a bad system to expose the public records to danger of loss, by constant removal from place to place, and would therefore vote for the motion, with a view of keeping them where they were now. He contended that Wellington was the best adapted for their next place of meeting, on account of it» central position, and said that the member for Christchurch, had adopted the ridiculous ruse of proposing Christchurch as the proper place, no doubt with a view to escape the censure of his constituents, for his former vote on tha seat of Government question. That motion involved the absurdity of changing the place of meeting from one end of the island to the other. He had heard a rumour outside the House, that it was intended to fight this resolution with a 6ories of amendments, and that Otago, Nelson, Canterbury, and VVaitohi, would successively bo proposed. He could not understand the antipathy which existed against choosing Wellington, and thought it must be founded on the old woman's reason, "I don't like it and I won't have it." More th«n half our population resided in Canterbury and Otago, and they desired the session to be held in Wellington. It was no inconvenience toNelaon, so that only Hawke's Bay, Taranaki, and Auckland, remained to be considered. He hoped the member for Christchurch would support the resolution, arid that it would bo carried by a majority. Mr. JOHN WILLIAMSON trusted that the present question would be left to the Governor, who was empowered by the Constitution Act to decide on it. The Hon. Mr. DOMETr, objected on constij tutional grounds to the House deciding this question. It was a matter which should be left to the Executive. One place had not a more special claim than another, and he would not object to have sessions held alternately in the various proj vinces/ He was afraid the removal of the sittings' rom Auckland after they had so long' ba en held hara wouli unsertlo tha Sativi mimi. | Mr. STAFFORD said that the supporters of tthe motion had not made out their case, and he thought while tho proposition to visL the various places in succession contained a principle of fairness, yet it was absurd to advocate the claims of Wellington as the only suitable place. Mr. FITZGERALD was of opinion that if circumstances made it advisable for his Excellency to fix the meeting of the Assembly at any particular place he would be agreeable to such a course. On estimating the relative distance necessary to be traversed, by the whole pf the members in going to Auckland and Wellington respectively, be found in the case of the former place that \i would be 15,000 miles, while in the latter it would only amount to 10,000. He did not care for one place more than another, but he thought Wellington as most central was best adapted for the purpose, aud that the Auckland members should make no further opposition to the change. Mr. WELLS proposed as an amendment that the next Session of the Assembly should be held at Nelson. Mr. O'RORKE thought the House had already settled that the Seat of Government should not be removed for the next 12 months. Mr. CARGILL thought if Government should be conducted in a satisfactory manner, it ought to be more in a central position. They should decide this question, not as affecting the interests of particular places, but as involving those of the colony in general. The affirmation of the motion would be a deathblow to the Separation movement. Mr. FOX felt assured that Canterbury and Otago would ultimately settle the question themselves, and members for other places might rest on their oars confident that ultimately the motion would be carried. Mr. THOMSON in reply commented on the remarks of previous speakers. The House then divided on tha original motion that the next session be held at Wellington, with the following result: — Ayes 19. Noes 22. Brandon Carleton Richardson O'Rorke Fox Wells Fitzherbert Domett W. Taylor Butler Man tell Munro Ward G. Graham Cargill R. Graham Carter Stafford Atkinson Nixon Harrison Colenso Fitzgerald A. J. Richmond Rhodes Cookson Oimond John Williamson J. C. Richmond James Williamson Moorhouse Russell Renall Wood Featherston C. Taylor Thompson (teller) Mason Curtis Bell Wilson (teller) On the Amendment for Christchurch being put the House divided with the following result. Ayes 15. Noes 25. Featherston Richardson Ward Bell Mantell Renall Thompson Butler W.W Taylor Cargill Harrison Nixon Brandon O'Rorke Cookson Williamson James Moorhouse Mason Fox Williamson John Fitzherbert Russell Rhodes Curtia FitzGerald Monro Carter Carleton Wilson (toller) C. Taylor Graham G. Graham R. Domett Wood Richmond J. C. Richmond A. J. Colenso Wells Stafford Atkinson On the amendment being put " that the next session of the General Assembly be held at Nelson " — it was negatived on the voices. Major RICHARDSON then moved— "That the selection of the place where the General Assembly should meet next session be left with his Excellency. Mr. RHODES seconded the motion. Mr. STAFFORD moved as an amendment ttiot the words be addded " not being any place negatived to-day." Tho amendment was put and negatived. The motion made by Major RICHARDSON having been put and carried ou the voices. Disposal of Waste Lands in Auckland. Mr. JOHN WILLIAMSON moved— •• For leave to bring in a Bill to enable alterations to be made in tho Regulations for the disposal of Waste Lands in the province of Auckland in certain cases. Agreed to. Bill read a first time ordered to be read a second time to-morrow.

Emigrants Land Orders. Mr. CARLETQN moved—" For leave to bring in a Bill reducing to three years the term of five years' residence in the Auckland province now required to entitle the holder of an Immigration Land Order under the Auckland Waste Lands Act, to a Crown Grant. Agreedto. Bill read Ist time, ordered to be read second time on Thursday next. Losses to Members by wreck of White Swan. Mr. WILLIAMSON brought up resport of Select Committee on losses sustained by Members in the White Swan — which was ordered to be considered in Committee of Supply. Despatch from the Duke of Newcastle The NATIVE MINISTER read a Despatch from the Duke of Newcastle, enclosing the New Zealand Bill, dated Juno 26th 1862. Wednesday August 37th, 186-2. The Speaker took the Chair at 12 o'clo ck. Papers. The following papers were laid on the table by Ministers. Statement shewing the number of Troops in New Zealand during the year ended 30th June, 1862, in respect of which the contribution of the Colony towards Military expenses is calculated. Return to an order of the 6th August, 1862. ( Mr. Stafford.) _ Return of number of acres over which the Native Title has been extinguished during the year ended 30th June, 1862— the amount paid or agreed to be paid for the same. Return to an i order of the 24th July, 1862. (Mr. Stafford.) Retui n of all persons employed in the adminis-f i tration of Native Affairs. Return to an order o the 24th July, 1864. (Air. Stafford.) heturn of all persons employed in the Land Purchase Department during the year ended 30th June, 1862. Return to an order of the 24th July, 1862. (Mr. Stafford.) Copies of Correspondence relative to establishing a Court of Native Land Title. Return to an order of the 24th July. (Mr. Weld.) Report of Officers of the Land Purchase Depart- i raent, relative to the extinguishment of Native Title. Return to an order of the 24th July. (Mr. Stafford.) , Heturn of all sums paid and presents made to Natives during the year ended 30th June, 1862. Return to an order of the 24th July, 1862. (Mr. Dillon Bell.) V Despatch from his Grace the Duke of Newcastle, respecting the departure of the " Claude Hamilton " being countermanded. Despatch from his Grace the Duke of New eaetle, respecting Postal Service between the United Kingdom, Australia and New Zealand. Despatch from his Grace tho Duke of New castle, respecting the Petition of the Provincial Council of Auckland for a separate Government Despatch from his Grace the Duke of New-, castle, respecting progress of New Institutions among the Natives at Waikato. Petition. Mr. CRACROFT WILSON presented a petition from certain inhabitants of tho City of Christchurch, praying for the removal of the Seat of Government to Wellington. Petition read and received. Alteration of Customs Duties' Act. Mr. WARING TAYLOR asked the COLO NIAL SECRETARY, if it is the intention of Government to propose any change in the Custom's Duties Act. 1858. in the present session. The Hon. Mr. DOMETT replied in the neeative. The Duke of Ne wcaslle's Despatch. Mr. FITZGERALD moved the resolutions printed in his name on the notice paper on Tuesday, August 19th., with some unimportant verbal alterations and supported his motion in a speech of some length Mr. FOX seconded the motion. Hon. Mr. DOMETT moved as an amendment " That a Select Committee be appointed to prepare an Address to Her Majesty in reply to the Duke of Newcastle's Despatch, of May 26th, 1862, Committee to consist of Messrs. John Williamson, Stafford, Richardson, Ward, Fox, Bell, W eld, J. C. Richmond and Fitzgerald, and that Mr. Fitzgerald's Resolutions and the address to the Queen proposed, to be moved by the Colonial Secretary be referred to tho Committee. Amendment agreed to. The Nominated Superintendents Bill. Was considered in Committee and repoited with amendments which were ordered to be considered on Thursday. Message pom Legislative Council. The SPEAKER announced that he had received a message from tho Legislative Council informing the House that they had passed the '• Miners Franchise Bill" with amendments to which they desired tho concurrence of the House; also that they had passed the " Protection of Birds Act" and the " Representation Act" without amendments.