COUNCIL.

Wellington Independent, Volume XVI, Issue 1592, 18 June 1861, Page 4

COUNCIL.

._"..'' '"; ; (Continued from bur last.) X)\; >■ kll ': :k ■ ■ T _\fr. |\>3$ thought that, the only way of solving ttyk/tHfhculty : would be to separate the Land atid" Survey Departments. He thought that Mr.-Lewife,' &. Cormnissipner under the New Zealand Company ought to. have a surveyor to wsrj_ynp the. fcdm'pany's arrears, and that the Land Office'should have their own surveyor, for tbfe Iwo departments, as at present^ constituted, witK : only obe 'surveyor ' between them," were always interfering with each oth erV He did not; -know;; why ..this suggestion could not, be cawied puty E(e. believed that, in. the ease, of tlfe arrears of" the New Zealand Company's G fai. is; 'there would be very little field work required, that it would he chiefly offioe work that the Surveyor -attached to Mr. Lewis' Department, would hav ; e to do. He was convinced tbat'tjie only way of solving the difficulty, was hy a(fop},ih|f 'the 'pian that he had' suggested. •JTb^PBoViNcuL Seobetart felt obliged to thp bon. mover 'for having brought forward the raoJ.ionilbefi.re ihem. - He qwued that it was a great harflslu'p ; that it had continued so long that it might well be considered chronic, and waß afraid that unless', a remedy were speedily applied, the case would become incurable ; and therefore -he felt greatly obliged to the hon. genti ? «;mjiO-;for; having brought forward the motion^ in' 'order that some remedy might be devised- 1 - He agreed with the bon. member for Rangitikei. in his iuggeslion as to the separation ,$f larrearsj in.the two departments. A step ha^betn , taken, ja , that .direction , by the separation of the Commissioners: but he was coWirieed that the^ Would never get rid of that unfortunate amount of arrears unless they amended the Jaw. . Undef. the old Ordinance. Crow.n,G.rantß-cpu|d. be demanded by derivative, purchasers, and if that Ordinance were to continue in. force, he could see no end to the accumulation of arrears— it was as near au approach, itd infinity as possible' (laughter). Wh§t^ thistles were not extinguished, they kept yielding a, greatly increased, crop every year ; and Wit Wpuld-be if all -derivative purchasers nere'tb b& fentitled to demand Crown Brants. The Ordinance ought to be amended by the introduction of a clause stating that from and after a .certain , date, no derivative purchaser sbould claim a Crown Grant (hear, hear). He believed that members of the learned profession they admhred} and sometimes had to appeal to for adrjco, -had some share in the causes of delay. They would frequently come into the office with their papers and say, " Mr. Commis siop^i' >v,e waritja Crown Giant for this," leavtheir papers, and 'Mr. Commissioner;' would fine that he had. to do the lawyer'^ work (laughter) fle'tfid.not blapae them, is perhaps he should doghe; B§nie 'thing~if a' lawyer. While they apfeUe4 tkP remedy intimated, be would beg of them, at the same time, tp apply the axe to the toot of th^tree, and prevent further accumulation of Snears^heaV, hear). Mr. BonLASE thought that extreme loss would accrue unless the Crown Grants were worked off. He believed that "stopping Crown Grants to derivative purchasers would lead to .■ ' • ; '•' ■ "

inextricable 1 Confusion unless ; they made a certificate of the Commissioner a registrable drcutnant. ! He:: thought tbere - 'con I'd ' ha >^o> better way of spending money than. in wOrkirig' hp the Crown Grab lsf, 1 . and unless that were done, it. would 1 create great confusion. , Mr - .' 1 Stokes replied. He was. gl^ f at the result ofthe discussion, as it 'prove*! that they s4WI the evil ,of ; which, he had corrtplairiedj bhVl showed that they.'wrefe l-etidy'to apply the remedy. He thought it better to have the individlial experieuceof tbose'hrOun'dbim^and' that thb remedy .should b£ proposed' 'by ( the,, G'o'vernhveht.' 1 Hte fully concurred' in tlie opijfipn, of the Crovi. n Commissioner t^t't^e^^tabiisji-, noejits ' shbii.d 'have spparate^ "_ .surveyors, .! 90 «. woiil-d take tlie libefly of suggesting that no one,, was better qualified to vfill'the office than Capt 'P^rkvylJeMttiPUght the Survey Staff should be materially strengthened, as there was*&/lafrge amuuiiLof flLgld work, to be done, and referred to tbe land in Por|rua-road,' where mistakes had been made in the Surveys which could 01,-ly. \be . cleared: up ;by field-work. ■ : 'Several " •titles iti Wellington which .Wete in dispute owing to.* sub-divisions -could* only 'be 'rectified by the same-prooess. The Crown 'Commissioner had used the stiongest argument as to the necessity *>f : working up arrears, when he observed that like thistles every year a subsequent crop of applicants would spring up— ! every year the difficulties would increase, and ' every year would yield sources of future > litigation. He was glad to perceive from the way in which the motion had been received, that the Government were fully alive to these difficulties, and ready to apply the remedy (hear, hear). The Speaker then put the motion, which was carried unanimously. > . Forage. AJr. Watt moved pursuant to notice — That a respectful Address he presented to His Honor the Superintendent, requesting him to place, upon the Estimates two sums of 4?25 each, for Forage foi horses, for the two Policemen at Turakina and Eangitikei, respectively. — Dr. Allison seconded the motion, observing that the police did the duty of postmen. The Prov. Secretary objected, as it would be paying for that which the General Government ought to pay, having taken the whole postal arrangements into their own hands. j Mr. Fox strongly supported the motion, pointing' out nt great length, and in forcible! terms, the grievances under which the inhabi • j tants of the districts mentioned laboured, with respect to their mails. Mr. Stokes thought that the observations of the last speaker were so conclusive, as to leave little to add ; but protested against the practise of placing sums on the Estimates without considering whether they could bear such additions, and suggested that the motion should pass, and be dealt witb in Committee. The motion was then put and carried. Karori Road. Mr. Johnston, in moving pursuant to noticeThat a request be made to His Honor the Superintendent, to place a sum of money on the Estimates for tho making and improvement of the Karori Road — observed that he would venture to ask tbe House-to agree with him in askiug that the sum of £500 be placed on the Estimates for, the purpose. He could give good reasons for asking for such a sum, but, in accordance with the plan suggested by the Provincial Secretary, would reserve them until the subject was discussed in Committee. £300 had been already voted, and not expended, so that it would only be an addition of £200 more. Mr. Fawcett seconded the motioa. Mr* Wallace' asked when all that placing sums on the Estimates would stop f He observed tbat a large amount was placed on the Estimates for grants in aid, and thought it ought to be treated as such. He ' wished to place the sum of £1000 on the Estimates for a Market place, which, was very much needed, but did not see hi !, ° r8 > in doing so, if all these sums weie p, 7 , T , to the Esti- __ _ rudaiii, raa * cs ' Baking" »• Mr. Carter said sucli oj )k p .^ould make it a trunk line, and it had bee-.*' , .eed that there should be only two trunk lint*. The Grants in aid were for bye roads, and tbis road ought tp be considered as sUch. ' The Prov. Solicitor claimed it almost as a matter'of right, the as £300 already voted had not been expended. They had heard a great deal about the greediness of Wanganui members, bethought Wairarapa members were becoming equally greedy. Capt. Rhodes thought the motion. :did not go far enough, and suggested that the hon. mover should, tack ou Makara and Ohariu which were much frequented, and agricultural districts. I Mr. Stokes observed tbat the discussion on the motion before them, was an illustration of what he had said before ; that it seemed to be a scramble amongst the representatives for their own particular districts, in order that when they met their constituents, they could recount what great things they had done for them. £500 was a large sum, and if the argument of the hou, member should be allowed to stand good,— that as £300 bad been voted, it would only be £200 additional for waiting— i he thought they would have many waiters on Providence, hoping that their votes might be doubled. the following year (laughter.) The Provincial Treasurer opposed the motion. He would uot give half the. cost of construction of the road, for all the district it passed through. He held himself at iiberty to deal with all those sums that had been placed ot the Estimates, as a whole — item by item had been added aud he did not think that the Estimates wauld bear such expansion. , Mr. Borlase thought that each district ought to have its fair share of expenditure, atid did not consider £500 too much for JCarori as it opened up other districts. Mr. Hunter observed tbat there was»a popular fiction that the Council had the control of tbe ; revenue, and that was the only plafre of making their requests known. He was sure that the Representatives were not actuated by any private motives, (Hear, hear.) Mr. Wright would give the motion his strongest support and did not consider £500 too much. Mr. Johrston briefly replied, observing that he could not help expressing his surprise that hon. members sbould express their surprise, that, when a constituency felt that they were neglected, they should bring their grierauces befoie the Council. The motion was then put and carried. pcolio wharf committee. The Provincial Secretary in moving, pursuant to notice, — That a Select Committee be appointed to reporl specially upon the site of tho proposed Publk Wharf, and generally upon the materials, plans &c, most suitable for such an erection. Tht Committee to consist of Messrs. Hunter, Johnston C. R. Carter, Allen, and the Mover, — observed, that it had been supposed that tht time was too limited; but he was pledged tc move for a Committee. After he , suggestiou 0 which he had mentioned, he wished to gathe;

the sense of the^Hyu^e whether -he^ad redeem ed his pledge, if he introduced a Bill author!^ i..g*the<SuperihtWd'eot. 'to appoint sion. Another way of meeting, the difficulty Would be by a'tfdihjv, -"'with p'qw'er'w'si't clurim the recess." ETe wn. iiiclitied to "lh'i'nk 'tliat tin be-U way would be to imroduce a Bill.'ft)r. thi appointment fif a vo'lnmission when immediate action might betaken. ,' , „,, '.. ..,',, „.. After some discussion, it was,d<?teumiue,d.thai the Committee would, he, ;tbe -best, and tht motion having been,, amended: by ithe-.additior of the names of Captain Smith; and Captaii Jlhodes, was-oaiiried,'* * •■ ••■ ' "• ' • The PnoviNorAL Secretary moved the suspension of Otdens-57 nnd 1 *75,'t0 eiiuble him tr substitute the naiile of Mr. W.'WV' Taylor foi his own, as his tim6'wa's ; tho mti<jh''6cctjplfed tr attend. Motion agreed to "and Mjv Taylor's name substituted. for " the Mover." ( .. , . ( PRIZE!' ''FOR THE' VpLU^TJpE^j9JFLEB.: Mb. Duncan, having, by leave, of the House made a literal amendment,, moved pursuant tc notice, — • i*x **.: *.•••■ i: I That a respectful address, be 'presented to hii Honor the Superintendent, requesting him to recommend to this Qouncil the appropriation of i£lOC for tb<? Jiest Rjfle Shots, to.be competed for (Undei regulations to be made by the Superintendent,) by the several Volunteer Eifle Corps throughout the Province. He observed tbat he should offer as few observations as possible, and regretted thai some more able member had not opened the discussion. Within the last few years, Volunteering had sprung up and had been encouraged by the highest personage in the realm ; in fact, it had become oue of the established institutions of the country. (Hear, , hear.) The Colonies : had followed the example of the mother country. Auckland, Canada, New South Wales, and Victoria had all liberally encouraged the movement. It was the opinion of many that that Provincial Council should do something in addition to what the General Assembly bad done. Some parties even went so far as to say, — more titan the General Government! Some years hence, it would doubtless be found necessary by all Provincial Councils to increase the sums they might now vote. It would be observed that the competition for the prizes was confined to Volunteer (Dorps. It was thought by some that the Militia ought to Ibe included, but that was quite foreign to his purpose. He proposed to do away with the Militia altogether. It was an expensive force, it was not useful, nor was it an ornamental force. His object was to encourage, the Volunteer movement; for in addition to the physical benefits resulting from the Volunteer system, there was a great social benefit to be derived from it, in bringing men of all c'asses to unite in a common object. He was sorry to say that the movement had not been sufficiently encouraged in this Province. In other Colonies large sums, had been voted for jts encouragement;— in one £10,000, in another £2,000. With these few remarks he should leave the motion in the hands of the Council. • Mr. Allen seconded the motion remarking that bo confidently counted on very considerable support. Mr. Fawcett disagreed with the hon. mover in askiug for such a large sum ; but had no objection to £5 being placed on the Estimates for the' purpose. (Laughter). Mr. Hunter said that he was sorry to hear some remarks fall from the hon. mover, which he (Mr. Hunter) , thought were quite uncalled for, viz: — that tlie Militia was not useful nor ornamental. He . (Mr. H.) thought that the Militia had on several occasions proved themselves very useful, if they were not ornamental. He should vote for the motion, which could be discussed in Committee. Tbe House then divided when there appeared - Ayes, .14.-Messrs. Rhodes, Duncan, Stokes, Hunter, Fitzherbert, Allison, Smith, Fox, Watt, Wright, Johnston, Crawford, Walllace, and Spinks. NoEB, 5. -Messrs. Whitewood, McEwen, Buck, Borlase, and Fawcett. At a quarter past 5 o'clock, the House adjourned until half-past six.