THE COUNTY OF WESTLAND BILL.

West Coast Times, Issue 639, 11 October 1867, Page 2

THE COUNTY OF WESTLAND BILL.

DEBATE OX THE ZIOttOS FOH SECOND BEADING-. [Continued from our last.']

Tho lion. John Hail immediately followed Mr Moorhouse in the debate on Mr Stafford's motion. Wo tako the folio wing'report of Mr Hall's speech from the New Zealand " Han- v sard," the official record of parliamentary proceedings :—: — - Mr Hail said before the motion was put he f wished to address a few observations to Ui/g' House. He observed the motion for adjjjf^^l meut was proposed by the Superintend^ of Canterbury, and seconded by the Stlperintendent of Otago. He could not agfiially asserb that the hon. gentleman intetfclecl that Ma amendment should have the^ff cc t of shelving the Bill, but there wei-evgf^f ew members in the House who didjjgfknow that such would practically bet}i^r esu i{; jf the motion was carried. If tlHThon. gentleman denied that such was his Mention, he (Mr Hall) could only accojrt.jfliat denial j but if it were not, he felt sorry that the hon. gentleman had not taken a bolder course, and moved that the Bill be read a second time that day six months. If he had intended that tho Bill should not ba read at all, it would have been more becoming his position aud character if he had once stated so. At any rale, the House ought to go to a division, understanding what was the real question at issue. The hon. gentleman complained that the Government had not, in dealing with this question, acted with courtesy and considcrationtowards himself. Heappeared to think that,ns Superintendent of the province, and as member for Wesfcland.intimation should have been given to him of the intention of the .Government to bring down the present BilLilic could assure the hon. gentleman that the Government would be sorry-to give to Tiny memberjof that House just cause for s complaint or'this kind, and he should especially *gef sorry that the Superintendent of the ProJ vince to which lie himself belonged, should have any ground for such complaint against a body of which ho (Mr Hall) was a member. He could stats to the hon. gentleman that there was no intention to treat him or his office with any want of respect. Anything of this kind was unintentional on the part of the Government. Ifc was only right, however; he should state that the question of the separation of Westlaud had, as was hinted by the last speaker, been the subject of conversations between that gentleman and himself (Mr Hall). The hon. member for Westland knew perfectly well what his opinions on this point were. He urged the hon. member to give in to the inevitable tentlency of things — to the inevitable result of circumstances, and accept a solution which may be protracted for a few weeks or months, but of which the termination must come before long. He confidently believed that it was better tho change should, be made now, than that it should be delayed, and ho had not hesitated to express that view to the hon. member. The Government was placed in a peculiar "position in this matter, in respect to the hon. member for Westlaud. He made it no secret that he held strong opinions in opposition to the course that was now proposed, and ib was perfectly hopeless to expect that he could bo got to concur in any such proposition. On the contrary he would do as he did on a previous occasion — use every means of defeating the Bill. It would, thorefore, merely have been putting weapons into the hands of a resolute and consistent opponent, if they had given him private notice of tho intention of the Government to bring in the present Bill. The hon. member was not treated exceptionally in that matter, although he had stated that he actually heard of the Government's intention from the hon. member for Chvistehurch. This must bo a misunderstanding. Tho intentions of the Government were not communicated to any hou. members out of tho Cabinet. He (Mr Hall) would state that in the most distinct and positive manner. Mr MoonnousE— The hon. member for Christchurch said that he " knew " it was the iutention of the Govomnieut to bring in such a Bill. Mr HAiTi— Tho question was not decided by the Government until after the hon. member for Christchurch left Welliugton. There was evidently some misunderstanding somewhere. He was sure tho House would accept his assursmce that no such intontion was communicated to any member of the House. Tho hon. gentleman had made a speech' which

would not tend to lessen the disposition which " existed in the community of Westland in | favor of Separation from the Province of Canterbury. He had endeavored to mate it appear that the petition was the result of a mere temporary effervescence on the part oftlio leading men of Westland. 3Vtr MooßnousE.— The leading men have Aothing to do with it. Mr Hall -would not quarrel about words ; if the hon. member liked it better he would Bay certain influential men. They certainly had influence enough to send up the most numerouely-eigned petition that had ever been laid on the table of the House. The hon. member for Westland further alleged in support of this position that the recent election of Mr Bouar, as member for Hokitika in the Provincial Council, was a proof that the people of Hokitika were not in favor of Separation. He (Mr Hall). was not of the same opinion. The issue of elections often depended as much on personal considerations, or the value that might be attached to the services of a particular individual, as on his political views ; and in this instance many of the most active supporters of Separation were also active supporters of Sir Bouar. The election had not turned upon a mere question of Separation or the reverse. Thpre were circumstances connected with Mr Prosser's position which dmiiuished his chance of success. He did not think that the election of Mr Bonar had anythiug to do with Separation. It was hardly worth while to press such a trifling consideration, but it was desirable, after what had been said, that the House should be correctly informed as to facts. The honorable gentleman said, that one of the reasons of Ministers for bringing forward the Bill was that it would increase theif patronage. If that were really a reason at all, which he denied, it was* equally a ground for saying that the hon. gentleman objected to it because it took away bis patronage. As for Government patronage in Kew Zealand, it was worthless. It had been well said in England that the exercise of patronage generally made one ungrateful man and ten discontented. That maxim had especial force in New Zealand. Mr MoosnoirsE — It was probably in anticipation of arrangements to come. Mr Hah. — The remark showed the honorable gentleman had a good deal of what was called savoir faire on this particular subject. Mr Mooehottse — I have seen a good deal of it. Mr Hall — The hon. gentleman doubtless was not merely a looker-on. ' Mr Mooiuiouse — My withers are umvrung ; go on. Mr Hall — The hon. gentleman seemed to have a thorough appreciation of how patronage might be used. The trutli was the hon. memUer was about to lose this patronage. But the argument was really not worth discussing. Patronage in New Zealand was really not worth having. It was a most undignified position for the Superintendent of a Province to stand up in that House as the lion, member had done, and abuse by name the leading men of the part of the country which he represented, and some of whom were members of his own Provincial Council. Mr MooBHOrsE wished to explain. He wanted to know what terms of abuse he had used. Mr Haul. — The hon. member alleged personal motives in certain cases. It was really not a worthy proceeding to speak in that way in that House of persons who were not and could not ba present to defend themselves. The hon. gentleman ought to have given them credit for being animated by as good and patriotic motives as he himself was. That sort of speech would not increase their disposition to remain under his Government. Ho now wished to say a few words on the general subject. The hon. member had complained that the House was asked to decide this question without sufficient information, and said tliat the ease ought to go before a Select Committee. Did the hoji. member mean to say that great constitutional changes were to be dependent upon the inquiries of Select Committees? He (Mr Hall) denied this. Let them carefully considir the facts which were within their rrach, and tJip actual information at their command, and then, if they did not see sufficient reasons to warrant them in legislating, let them resort to a Committee for further information, but not till then. The facts, 'however, which were already under their eyes, were such as ought not to allow them to lose any time iv legislating on this important subject. He asked the House to bear with him while he attempted moot briefly to sketch the history of the Government of Westland. That part of the Province of Canterbury became spoken of in the _world rather more than two years ago, when it if&s discovered to be a very rich auriferous district, and was suddenly visited with a very lAyge influx of population from the neighboring Provinces of New Zealand, and from Australia. Up\to that time the district was olmost a terra iiicoanita, and access to it by land was very difficult. One person had oven in the old days succeeded in taking a mule acros3 ; but he had in several places to drive it into the Teremakau Rker, and allow it to take its chance as to whether and where it would come out alive. That was the best means of communication which then existed between the East and West Coasts of Canterbury. He was, when the goldnelds were discovered, connected with the Provincial Government of that Province. When thi3 large population suddenly poured into the district, that Government did the best in its power to meet the emergency. They detached the best officers they could obtain for the service. The Provincial Secretary himself, now the Under Secretary for Native affairs, went over to organize the Government establishment, and money was not spared in doing co. It was considered, owing to the difficulty of communication between Christchurch and the West Coast, that the only way in which the Government could be efficiently administered there was by establishing a Government agent on the West Coast, and the then Provincial Treasurer, a gentleman of great ability, with an amount of disinterestedness which did him credit, agreed to go over <to Hokitika to act for the Government' upon the same salary ho had been receiving up to that time. A detachment of police was sent over without delay, and all necesßarj' arrangements for the ndminiotration of the law were made as speedily and efficiently as possible. At that time of com se the Provincial G-overnment bad received no revenue whatever from Westlancl,and were, at starting largely out of pocket by these measures. In addition to that, in order to get over the difficulty of communication between the two sides of the Province,exploring parties were sent out to search for "the best practicable pass by which a road could be made from the East to the West Coast, and as soon as this was determined, very [energetic measures were adopted for the formation of this road. He did not take, any credit to the Provincial Government for this proceeding, because the public were so urgent and so unanimous in calling for this road that no Government would have stood for a single day which had refused to take this action. The line chosen had since proved to be the best that could have been selected, and the road was now allowed to have been well and economically constructed, considering the difficulties under which it was earned out, and to be thoroughly good and efficient for the purpose for which it was made. Tho Provincial Government also obtained the sanction of the Provincial Council tor the construction of a line of telegraph, and knowing that the requisite telegraphic material was for sale in Southland, ho suc-

ceeded, through the medium, of the telegraph to Southland, in purchasing this material within a few hours of the sanction of the Provincial Council being obtained. He thought these facts would show that the Canterbury Government of that day weve not unmindful of their duty to western part of the Province. At the same lime they determined that as Westland was a separate and dißtinct part of the Province, having separate interests and requirements, and where a large amouit_ of money would bo received and have to be spent, it would be the be3t plan to keep a separate account of all moneys expended and received on its accouLt. All these expenses could be easily asqertahied, as they were chiefly paid through the local Sub-Treasury, and the revenue account could also be kept separate without difficulty from the rest of the Province. The separate account was, therefore, started at once. With regard to the cost of the West Coast road, the Government decided, and to this decision the sanction of the Provincial Council was subsequently given, that the whole cost of the road should cot be charged to Westland, but that the eastern and western portions of tho Province should each bear the cost of construction upon its own side of the watershed. He thought no fairer arrangement could be devised. The Canterbury Government from the outset determined that they would not attempt ,to draw any revenue away from Westland, but that they would spend upon that part of the Province all the revenue which they collected there. No charge was made against Westland for the interest on the general debt of the Province until the last session of the Provincial Council, nor had any charge been made for the general expenses of the Province, such as the Superintendent, the Provincial Secretary, the Provincial Treasurer, the office of the Provincial Engineer, tho principal gaol, and lunatic asylum. The district of Weßtland had Ihe use of these institutions without bearing any of their cost, lhat wa» the footing upon which the administration of 'the affairs of Westland was placed by the Provincial Government, of which he (Mr Hall) was a member. After the breaking out of the goldfields the General Assembly met before the Provincial Council, and had therefore au earlier opportunity than the Provincial Council of providing for the admission of representatives into the Council from Westland. It took advantage of that opportunity and passed n, Bill giving two members to that district Tho Council at its next meeting sanctioned the maintenance of tho separate account, and it became an established part of tho Canterbury financial system. Honorable members had only to turn to the quarter's accounts, as published in the provincial "Gazettes," to see exactly what, amounts wero received and expended in Westland. In tlio session in question the Government endeavored to complete arrangements for offering for sale such an amount of agricultural land in Weslland as jvould induce miners and others to permanently settle in the country. Inquiry had been made on the part of the Government as to the localities which contained land available for agriculture, which was not likely to prove auriferous, and propositions were submitted that certain land in these localities should be thrown open on certain conditions. Unfortunately, he must say, the Provincial Council negatived that proposal, at the instance, principally, of tho Westland members, and no provision was carried that session for<tfio sole of rural lands. The Government aud Council acknowledged the justice of the claim advanced by the two Westland members, that their district should have a larger representation in the Council, and the number of representatives was increased frnn two to five. Notwithstanding what he (Mr Hall) had now said, he did not wish to disguise the fact that considerable dissatisfaction existed in Westland, at the time he referred to, at the manner in which the Government was administered. The term of office, however, of tho then Superintendent was drawing to a close, mid tlie Westland people were informed that, when the hon. member for Westland — who was then a candidate for the Superinteudency — was elected, better days would dawn upon (heir district, and that he would put everything to rights, and remedy every grievance. Mr Moobhouse — Who informed them ?

Mr Hall — Certain public prints informed them ; and his lion, friend himself gave them some hints that the evils they complained of were the result of inefficient administration.

Mr Mooehotjse — I defy the hon. member or any body else to say that I ever addressed to Westland, directly or indirectly, any words that could justify such a construction. Mr Hail would accept the doajial, but if the hon. member did not himself do \ this, some injudicious friends did it for him, and he was elected under that impression. After the election of the present Superintendent, the Council met in the month of October, 1866, aad pat for three months, and the five Westland members took , their seats in ife. Up to this time the expenditure was going on upon the principle he had explained. Everytliing collected in Westland, and even more, wa3 spent there ; but, nevertheless, when this session o£.-slie Council took place, about twelve monflis ago, the amount of dissatisfaction in Westlaud was even greater than it had ever been before. There was no doubt about that, and hon. members now present from Canterbury would remember that the Weslland representatives were constant in their complaints of the administration of the Canterbury Government, alleged that their district did not receive a fail- share of the public fund money, and that which was voted was expended injudiciously. Tho Provincial Government of that day devised n rathei 1 sagacious means of dealing with this dissatisfaction. They said, " You have many grievances, but it is difficult for the Provincial Council at present to say what is the best way to deal with the question. We will, therefore, at the end of the session, appoint a Commission to enquire into and report upon all the fact 3of the case," That device helped them to get over the session, and if it had not beeivfor that proposal he wa3 confident that at that time Westland would have taken steps to obtain Separation from East Canterbury. The people wei'e, however, buoyed up with the hope that the Commission would do a great deal for them, aud would remove all grounds for dissatisfaction. The Council in that session had a number of subjects affecting Westland under their consideration, but hon. members from Canterbury would bear him out in the statement that, in dealing with them, considerable jealousy and distrust was found to exist between tho members from Ihe eastern and western parts of the Province. Members from Westland said, not unnaturally, that the bulk of the members of the Council knew nothing about Westland questions, and was entirely uninterested in them. They had never seen Westland, knew nothing about the people or their pursuits, or the resources and condition of the district. On the other hand, it was remarked that the members from Westland had holped to turn out a Provincial Ministry upon questions with which practically their constituents had no no concern, and unjust imputations were drawn from their conduct. To show the extent to which the case of Westland was a distinct one, and to which the Canterbury Council was not a fit body to legislate for its local affairs, he would quote from an Order Paper of that session, upon which he had happened to place his hand. It proved how little the ordinary legislation of the Council was calculated to meet the wants of Westland. There wcro upon it fifteen Notices of Motion. Of theßO one was to consider tho Wostlnnd Public-house Bill, another the Westland Hospitals Bill, another the Hokitika Muui-

cipal Corporations Bill. On all these subjects it was found necessary to provide special legislation for West Canterbury. Then there were "Estimates of Expenditure for tho West Coast for the current year." That was admitted to be a matter whicli must be kept quite distiuct. Next there came the Medical Practitioners Bill ; they required different regulations for medical practioners on the West Coast.

Mr Mookhotise— That was done by Mr Barfr, who got up the petition — that piece of madness.

Mr Ham. — If the hon. member chose to stigmatise the petition from 2600 of his own constituents as a piece of madness, it ought to be known to his constituents, and he (Mr Hall) would see that it was. It was not fair of the hon. geiatleinau to make such a use of his position in that House ; ho knew what the hon. member would have said if he had made such, a remark.

Mr MooEnoxJSE — I believe tho hon. member himself is quite susceptible of the madness I spoke of. The Speaker — I think the hon. member is interrupting oftener than is at all desirable ; he will, I am sure, see the irregularity of such a coiU'3e.

Mr Hail — Did the hon. member attribute maduess to him ? If so, he would say one of the two might be mad, but he would leave it to the House to determine which of them it was. The next order on the paper he had referred to was the Westland Board of Education Bill. There existed law 3 regulating education in East Canterbury, but they were not framed applicable to Weslland J Half the Order Paper wa3 filled with notices pointing out the necessity for special legislation for Westland ', it wa3 a fair specimen of the course of proceedings in the Provincial Council. After the conclusion of that session, the now Superintendent visited Westland, and spent a. couple of months there, his absence caused considerable dissatisfaction £to the people on the East Coast. But did he fulfil the expectations which had been raised on his election ? It was a matter of notoriety that the hon. member loft Westland a very popular man. He did nob think that any person from We3tland or Canterbury would deny that. Ho would not say it was entirely his fault, but he did say that, rightly or wrongly, expectations had been raised whicli the hon. gentleman found it impossible to fulfil, conscqucntlyjjliis popularity waned, and he left Westland amid popular disfavor. This was the answer to assertions which might be made that tho desire for Separation which existed in Westland was tho result of the administration of any particular Provincial Government. Ho entirely denied that; it was not the fault of the preceding Government, nor of the present Superintendent or his Government, but it was owing to the intrinsic difficulties of the case. The Westland Commission was appointed ; but although, according to the promises in the Provincial Council, a number of subjects were to be referred to it, the only question proposed for their deliberation was, how the lands were to bo sold, and their labors wero attempted to be restricted to that one point. It was, however, more ensy to appoint a Commission than to restrict its action, and tho Commissioners did actually go into other subjects. They made a series of recommendations in reference to the waste lands and the manner in which they should be disposed of. Then came the last session of the Canterbury Council, held a few months ago, when the results of the hon. gentleman's visit to Westland woie to be shown. The estimates for Westland were at first brought clown separately, according to the same plan as before, and the accounts were still to bo kept distinct. For certain reasons, however, the Provincial Government in tho course of tho session proposed to alter that plan, and amalgamate the two systems of expenditure. How was that proposal received ? Did the Provincial Council, or oven tho representatives of Westland, thiuk thero was a sufficient amount of identity of interests between the two sides of the Province to warrant that amalgamation ? Jf 0, the proposal was negatived so decidedly that the Government did not even call for a division upon the question. The Provincial Council, including tho members from Westland, insisted on the two accounts being still kept separate, being evidently strongly impressed with tho conviction that the local interests of tho two communities were really distinct. In that session, for the first time, a charge of about L 3009 was placed on tho Westland estimates as a contribution towards the general cost of the government of the Province ; and later on in the session a sum of L7OOO was charged against Westland as its share of the interest on tho public debt of the Province, in consideration of the fact that tho account of Westland was considerably overdrawn. That seemed not unreasonable, but it was one of tho grounds for petitioning for ocparation. During this session there was tho Eanio special legislation for Westland as thero had beeii during tho previous session — the same admission that local legislation which was adapted for East Canterbury was not suited for Westland. The laud regulations which had been recommended by the Westland Commission were sent down by the Superintendent to bo considered by the Council, but so ill-constituted was that body for oflbcting a satisfactory solution of this important question, that tho only regulations which were passed wcro strenuously opposed by the Westland mombera ; and to such an extent was the feeling carried that those members walked out of tho Council Chamber in a body. He did ask honorable members to consider tliis important, fact, that, when tho question of making regulations for the disposal of the waste lands — a subject so vital to tho progress and prosperity of any district — was considered, the unfitness of the existing Legislature to deal with it was so apparent that the whole of

(Continued in page 4.J

Debate — Continued from Page 3.

the representatives of that part of the country affected by them walked out of the House ! There mußt surely be something there requiring a remedy. Now, what was the end of all this history ? It was the " pieco of madness," as the hon. member for Westland called it — the petition from his constituents. That was the result of the trial that was given, in the first place, to the Government of the late Superintendent of Canterbury; then to that of the present Superintendent ; then to the Westland Commission ; and fourth, to the last session of the Council, to which the people of Westland looked for a redress of their grieances. The result was a petition signed by a larger number of persons than was ever before presented to that House asking for separation. Ho could not say that he agreed with all the statements in the petition ; but there were some of them with which he diil, and which should be considered by the House. As all honorable members might not have read the petition, he would call attention to one or two passages from it, and read them. The first was :— " That the long delay which has taken place in the sale of Crown lands of Hokitika, G-rey-mouth, and Okarita, has been a source of great complaint and dissatisfaction, and that, had the opportunity of purchase been afforded the lands in the whole of these towns would have been occupied as freeholds." He could safely say that considerable efforts had been made to bring these lands into the market ; but difficulties had arisen 'out of the distance from the seat of Government, at which arrangements had to be made. Had the matter been managed by a local government, there was no doubt the sale would have been effected long ago. He would now refer to other clauses in the petition. It Bet forth :— " That Eastland and Westland are separated . by a lofty mountain range, which extends fronr ' the northern to the southern boundary of the Province, forming a natural barrier between the two districts, wholly debarring the inhabitants of either side of the range from carrying on any overland traffic in home produce or general merchandise with those of the other aide j whilst the general facilities possessed by Westland for easy and constant communication with the different parts of New Zealand, and of the Australian Colonies, render it utterly impracticable for the inhabitants of Eastland to compete with the intercolonial and inter-provincial trade carried on with the ports above alluded to. " That the interests and resources of the eastern and western portions of the Province •re in every respect dissimilar ; the prosperity of Eastland depending upon the success of its pastoral and agricultural interests ; its chief wealth consisting of sheep and cattle, which are for the greater part the property of large s'ockowners ; the principal export of Eastland being wool. "That Westland, upon the other hand, muit, at least for a considerable time to come, depend mainly upon the apparently exhaustless mineral resources of the country, and upon the export of gold. "That this complete diversity of interests has, on all occasions, been recognized by the Provincial Council of Canterbury ; as, in a majority of cases, distinct legislation has been found necessary to meet the exigencies of eases daily arising in Westland, for the requirements of which district the Canterbury Provincial Ordinances are generally found to de utterly unsuited and inapplicable. Tour petitioners would refer to the Westland Public-house Ordinance, the Westland Board of Education Ordinance, and others, the •ction of which is limited by special provision to the western portion of the Province, whilst many others are so admittedly inapplicable to Westland that special clauses have been introduced in them, limiting their operations to that part of the Province of Canterbury situate to the east of the dividing range." Also:— "That the very great ignorance in regard to the exceptional position and peculiar requirements of the district displayed by the majority of the representatives of eastern constituencies on all oocasionß when any measure affecting the special interest of Westland are under discussion in the Council, has not only produced a considerable amount of confusion, but as your petitioners believe, has caused many members to voto against measures which had they been better informed, they would in all probability have supported." He could not agree in all that was stated in the petition, but it was perfectly true, as the petitioners stated, that the bulk^of the memDwi of the Canterbury Couxfcil were as Ignorant of th» affairs of Westland as jfcf they had lived in Australia. He would add a few other extracts on points of importance: — " That the administration of the local revenues of Westland could be much more economically effected under the supervision of a local government ; the present system, so antagonistic to the true interests of the district, having involved a loss of may thousands of pounda of public money. "That the utter indifference shown on all occasions by the Provincial Government to the repeated requests of the people of Westland for protection to private enterprise in the prosecution of public works, such as tramways, has been accompanied by the most disastrous results, inasmuch as the absence of all protection has prevented the investment of a Urge amount of capital in the construction of such works, which, if carried out, would be of immense benefit to the district, and upon the prosecution of which the development of its interests very greatly depends. " That, as indicating the hostile feeling of the Provincial CouncS towards the district, your petititioners would direct the attention of your honorable House not only to the mischievous reduction in the estimates for public works and roads, to which they have already referred, but, further, to the resolution adopted by the Council absolutely prohibiting the miner from a right of entry upon* •ny rural or suburban lands alienated from: the Crown. And your petitioners would; submit that a reservation in favor of mining, f similar to that of the present Land Act ofl Victoria, would, without interfering with the title to the land, or with the interests of the, owner, largely tend to develope the resource's of the country, and at the same time pro-, vent that decrease in the revenue which must inevitably occur iv the event of the * land being sold without the reservation referred to. Your petitioners would farther call the attention of your honorable House to the fact that the Commission appointed hj hi» Honor the Superintendent of Canterbury strongly recommended in report that a reservation in favor of mining should t» made in connection with all lands sold in Westland, which recommendation was entirely Ignored by the Provincial Council. "That the experience of your petitioners 'has convinced them that no such expectations can be longer entertained, and that no re•ouree is left to this district but absolute and immediate separation." He was afraid he had wearied the House with this history of the Westland case 5 but it Was » very important question to those affected by it, and he had felt it his duty to give all the information he possessed on the subject, as it had been asserted that the House hacf not had sufficient information laid before it. He bad not stated opinions merely, but facts, which no one could deny. Before he • hid down he would refer briefly to the general paM4giL«i whi«h be believed should gm'de the

House in determining a question of this this kind. Why should Westland be a part of the Province of Canterbury. Mr Mooehouse — Why should it be a part of New Zealand ? Mr Hall— God made it a part of New Zealand, but man made it a part of Canterbury, and, as he believed, made a mistake in doiug so. Why should it be part of the Canterbury provincial system ? Provincial Governments were established and maintained to carry oufc the principle that local affairs should be locally administered. That was the intention of the fawners of the Constitution Act in creating Provinces in New Zi aland, and when i the boundaries of the Province of Canterbury were fixed, if it could have been imagined that within any reasonable time there would be in Westland so large a population as there now was, could any one allege that the district would have been made a part of Canterbury ? There were no two districts in the Colony more dissimilar or more unfitted to be parts of the same Province than East aiid We3t Canterbury ? Their physical features were different, and they were cut off from one another by an almost impracticable mountain range, across which a road and a telegraph had been made at considerable expense. The range was only passable at two other passes, only one cf which was available for stock. Naturally Westland was further in point of time from East Canterbury than it was from Nelson. When the difficulty of the mountain barrier was overcome the physical features of the two districts were found to be entirely different— one was a level country, where the people were engaged in pastoral and agricultural pursuits, and where there was generally next to no timber ; the other was nearly all mountain and forest, highly auriferous, and furnished occupation to an entirely different population. It was not settled to any considerable extent from East Canterbury, and few of the Canterbury people had been successful there. The greater part of the Christchurch people met with in Hokitika were Government officers. The population came from Australia and Ofcago, and their pursuits, idea 9, habits, aud associations were entirely different from those of the population on the eastern side. Their circumstances and local requirements differed indeed to such an extent that he could hardly believe any hon. member could deny that the affairs of the two districts should be separately administered. At present they might be compared to the Siamese twins, bound together by a troublesome tie. Mr Vooeli— You -would find it difficult to separate the Siamese twins. Mr Hall — There was certainly this difference in the two cases, that while separation might have killed the Siamese twins, it would give life to East and West Canterbury. Any union which at present existed between them was a sham one. He admitted that there was a part of the work hitherto undertaken by Provincial Governments, which had been spoken of by tho hon. member for Westland, which ought not to be lost sight of, viz., the opening out of important lines of arterial communication, and that thi3 could not be expected from smaller bodies. In the present Bill a provision was inserted for maintaining one of these works, viz., the road from the East to the West Coast, which had been made by the Government of Canterbury, and he might say with regard to that work, as it had been decried as costly and useless, that it had been most advantageous to Eastland, among other ways, in the increased value on the stock driven over ; and to Westland in ensuring a regular supply of meat for its large population, and a decrease in its cost. The gaiu on these two items, alone had already more tban paid for the road. It; was out of these circumstances, of an entirely different set of local requirements and circumstances on one side from what there were on the other, and not from any want of will on the part of the Canterbury Government to do its duty to the district, that this feeling of discontent, which had been proved to exist, had arisen on both sides. It would increase if some remedy, such as the Bill offered, was not afforded. He believed that if the proposal for Separation was brought forward in the Canterbury Council, it would be carried by a majority of two to one. • Mr VoGEL — Try a plebiscite. Mr Ham. — They did not approve of French phrases or expedients in Canterbury, and he 3id not think that the result of the plebiscite in Otago had been sufficiently creditable to thut Province to induce a trial of it in Canterbury. He admitted that the Bill was open to criticism. It had been brought down at a time and under circumstances when it was not possible to make it a complete aud final settlement of the caae. The Bill was properly called a Bill to establish the county of Westland, and make temporary provision for the government thereof. Even if they were now at the commencement of the session it would bo unwise to pretend that they could a3 once frame a permanent and satisfactory system of government for Westland; any scheme with that object must be to some extent experimental. That was the answer to tho- objection which had not unnaturally been brought forward that very large powers wove given to the Government for maintaining police and incurring other necessary expenses of Government. These were to be paid by tho authority of the Government, advised by a Council to be elected by the district. In a future session the ordinary legal provision would be asked for the expenditure of that money ; but under present circumstances he thought that tho most satisfactory provisional arrangement would be to give -the Government the requisite power to defray these necessary expenses. The balance of the revenue was to be distributed by the same agency among the various municipalities and road boards, to be by them expended iv public works. The Government had heard from Wsstland that the geueral principle of the Bill gave satisfaction. When it had worked for twelve months, they would have considerable experience to guide them in making {further provision ; they would also have two jothermembersfor Westland in the House. The jcase, also, would be disembarrassed of the whether Westland should be separated or not. That would be settled, aud the ■ Hmse would only hate to consider how it j • could be best governed. With regard to tho | debt, the usual course adopted on similar ♦ occasions was proposed to be now followed. The debt and liabilities would be apportioned by arbitration, as had been done elsewhere. He believed it desirable, both in the interests of Westland and Eastland, that this question should not remain outstanding. There were special reasons why it should not, but he would not at present dwell on them. They would suggest themselves to those members who were acquainted with tho circumstances of the case. He coulti quite appreciate the disinclination of the Superintendent of Canterbury to lose this territory, but he did not believe that its local afl'airs could be satisfactorily administered from Christchurch by any Government whatever. He had always held that opinion. The Superintendent naturally opposed any proposal to abandon a portion of the territory he administered, or to decrease the numbers over whom ho ruled. He did not blame him ; it was a noble ambition to be desirous of exercising such largo administrative powers. The hon. member took large views, and thought he could by bo doing bel nefit his fellow men. If so, the larger the f sphere of his influence the bftttci' j but such considerations were likely to warp the judgment) of persoa* ia his positioa with respect

to other considerations. With regard to the aeoounts between Ea«Uand and Westland, they were published every quarter in the " Provincial Gazette," and supplied full information. He found that, debiting Westland with only half the cost of the main road, and without charging a penny for the intere«fcon the debt, nor for the chief departments of Government, nor even for the expenses of the Westland members in the Provincial Council, the Canterbury Government had, up to the 30th June, 1867, spent L 85,000 more on Westland than they had ever drawn from it. Yet successive Governments had been unable to give satisfaction. Therp had been a growing dissatisfaction, the manifestation of which had only been staved off by the various proceedings and anticipations to which he hnd alluded. If the House did not assent to this Bill, he was quite sure that tho irritation on both sides would be increased very much during the next twelve months. With regard to the land regulations for Westland, the settlement of which both sides had looked to as a means of settling difficulties, the five members from Westland wanted one thing, and the Provincial Council another ; and although the Provincial Council had passed other resolutions recommending certain regulations, their request had not been acted on in that Assembly, and the Superintendent was in this awkward position, that he must either act against the wishes of the five representatives of Westland, or in the teeth of tho resolutions of the Provincial Council on this subject. He hoped the House would not refuse to grant the prayer of the petition. Again, he did not say that the Bill was a complete or satisfactory one, but it was the best that the circumstances permitted, and would, if carefully and energetically administered by -the Government, create important improvements on the present administration. He would, therefore, earnestly ask the House to let Eastland and Westland part in peace, and not, by rejecting the present proposal, postpone this inevitable result until a day when they would probably part in anger. {To be continued J