EXPEDITIONARY FORCES AMENDMENT BILL.

Wanganui Chronicle, Volume LX, Issue 17123, 26 October 1917, Page 5

EXPEDITIONARY FORCES AMENDMENT BILL.

AN IMPORTANT AMENDMENT.

ALL SCHOOL TEACHERS

EXEMTED.

A CLOSE DIVISION,

(Per Press Association.) WELLINGTON, October 25. When the House resumed at 7.30, Mr Anderson continued the debate on. the Expeditionary Forces Amendment .Bill. He directed nis l em-arks* against military shirkers, contendng that such persons should be deprived of any land they held. If they now hold no land, they should not be allowed to acquire any land in future. He gave notice ox his intention to move an amendment to that effect when the Bill is in Committee.

Sir Joseph Ward sad that at the outbreak of the war all classes and creeds of our people joined together for the < purpose of helping tile .Empire m the hour of need. A notable instance ot this was the case of Ireland, where,J prior to the war, the people were arm- ' ed to the teeth, but the moment the ! Empire was in'danger the two great contending parties sank party differ- j ences and joined together. They were still fighting together, and were prepared to make great sacrifice in contending against tine intolerant ,l"oe. This he regarded as a valuable lead towiards toleration, and he hoped the House would arrive at a decision on certain matters in this Bill. Such as would eliminate strife and bitterness in this country. [Referring to the exemption of the clergy, he considered thr.t during the time of war .the people should not be deprived of spiritual consolation. Neither should our educational institutions be so -depleted as--to deprive children of that clas of education r-ece&sary to enaole them to take a right xiew of theiv duties as citizens after the wai. In this respect we night well take an exampk from America, where President Wilson declared that no teacher shall leave the States. Much the same position existed in England, where up to March last no teacher ufa religious order hard been asked to go to v>he war. He would be no party to •assisting any one to shun his duty to the country, but he did not think any one could accuse the Roman Catholic Lcdy of shirking duty, since 9721 members of that communion had embarked on active service up to the 28th Reinforcements. Discussing Marist schools, be said there were 2000 children attending their eleven schools, thus saving the Dominion, roughly. £14,000 per annum. Their teachers' numbered 35, and of these only about 20 were likely to be medically lit. He wished the Ho.we to remember that there was co poss-.bility of these teacheri bein reinforced from other sources, and the only com so these men oould pursue as tho law stood was to go before a medical board, and if the board said they must go, then go they must, but he desired to ask if twenty, or even all 35, such men were sent, was there any jikelihood of making any difference to the war, to say nothing ot the difference whica should be paid to tho wishes of 9700 of their co-religion.-ists now fighting at, the front, and"why desired to have their children educated on lines which the/ considered necessary to their welkre. Personally, hs intended to vote for the exemption of ail teachers, and if the House was not prepared to go that far, then he would vote to exempt Maiist Brothers. Dr. Thacker also favoured the exemption for Mairist Brothers, on the ground that their living was not an occupation, but a'tocation. He deprecated sending any specialised man as as ordinary Tommy. If we were up against a wall, then no man should oe exeinot —every man should go—but w« were not in that'position yet, and there was no need for this extreme legislation.

Sir John Findlay deprecated the importation of sectarian differences into the debate, and appealed to members to consider the Bill in a spirit of toleration and sweet reasonableness. Mr Wright said he hoped lie was as till**g&ui 'as anyo'ie, but with Him it was lxofc a questiou of the religious belief of anyone, but the question was whether single men should remain at home while married men were taken from their families and sent to the front. He saw a great.,diffioulty the moment the House began to make exemptions, and he therefore favoured bringing everyone under the operation of the Bill, and allow the appeal boards to exempt such as they think essential to the community.

Mr Craigie condemned exemptions, and m Committee lie would vote to strike out Clause 3, looking at the question from an Empire point of view. Mr Hmdmarsh ur^ed the House to be tolerant, and asked was it worth while annoying ihe ftoinan Catholic body by sending to the front a- few men whom they considered of so much value at home.

Mr McCailum complained that the wording of Clause 3 was indefinite Ihere -was no proper definition of the term "Holy Orders," and the House should not throw on the military service boards the responsibility of sayinoX ? are ' and who are not > in- Holy Orders. He contended that Marist brothers were in Holy Orders. Mr Hudson argued that this was a military measure, not a religious measure and the Military Service Board should be allowed to say who should go to the front and who should stay at home. J

Mr Payne .strongly supported Clause 6 or the Bill, an <l hoped it would be supplemented by exempting teachers or all denominations. Mr Glover also favoured the exemption of Manst Brothers Mr Dison (Parnell) said it had been stated m the House that 60 per cent, or the Sam-oan force were Roman Catholics. He got a return laid on tha table which showed that the total force sent to Samoa was 1382 men. Of these 174 were Roman Catholics, whicn meant that they comprised 12 per cent, winch was a very different thin* trom 60 per cent. He mentioned this in view of other leturns quoted in the House. Psrsoni-uly, h& favoured the eliminations altogether, and would vote against.Cyause 3.

After the Minister of Defence had replied, the House went into committee.

At clause 31 Dr. Newman moved to strike out the words "specified in

the schedule." This, if carried.' would necessitate sti'king out the schedule and leaving Boards to decide who was in holy orders or a regular minister of a religious body The Minister said he had no objection to the amendment, and would leave it to the House.

The words were struck out Sub-clause B being considered superfluous in view of the prior amendment, was also struck out. Sir Joseph Ward moved a new SUb-clause providing for the exemption or all school teachers, with a view of maintains education at the present standard.

The amendment was carried by 36 to 32. A division was then called on/the clause as amended, and the clause was retained by 3 6 to 33 The division list on Sir Joseph Wards amendment was:—

Ayes (36) —Brown, Carroll, Colvin, Dickie, Ell, T. A. H. Field, W H. Field, Findlay, Fletcher, Forbes, Glover, Hanan, Hindmarsh, Isitt Jennings, McCallum, McCombs Mander, Myers, Parata, Payne, Poland, Pomare, Poole, Russell, Sidey, R W Smith, Talbot, Thacker, Thomson" Veitch, Walker, Ward, Webb, Wiiford, Witty.

, Noes (32)—Allen, Anderson, Anstey, Bollard, Craigie, J. M. Dickson, Fraser, Guthrie, Harris, . Herdman, Hernes, Hornsby, Hudson, Hunter Lee, Massey, A. K. Newsman, E Newman, Nosworthy, Okey, Parr, pearce, R. H. Rhodes, T. W. Rhodes, Scott, S. H. Smith, Statham', Sykes, Wilkinson, Wright, Young. In the second division the Hon Mac Donald voted with the Ayes ?nd Dr. Pomare, who previously voted with the Ayes, voted with the Noes. Clause 12 was amended, depriving deserters of civil rights. The Minister moved a new clause validating sentences passed by New Zealand court-martial.

Mr. Wilford attacked what he termed an attempt to whitewash illegal sentences and said it would be better to own up and pay compensation.

Left sitting,