TELEGRAPHIC

Wanganui Chronicle, Issue 12856, 23 October 1912, Page 5

TELEGRAPHIC

"DOWNRIGHT PIECE OF

IMPfcfiHNENCt"

MORE SCENES BEFORE PUBLIC ACCOUNTS COMMITTEE

SIR JOSEPH WARD REFUSES TO

WITHDRAW

MIL HIKE AND OTHER MEMBERS

COLLIDE.

(Per Press Association.)

WELLINGTON

October 22

Tho Public Accounts Committeo met this morning, when i? considered a- report which had been referred back to tho Committeo by tho House regarding a statement by Sir Joseph Ward characterising Mr. Hine's action as a, downright piece of impertinence. To-day Sir Joseph Ward challenged the accuracy of the minutes, in that they did not put in the remark of the chairman which led him (Sir Joseph Ward) to say, "It is a downright piece of impertinence." Tho chairman said to him. "Answer straight, or refuse to give an answer."

Mr. Myers urged that in justice to Sir Joseph Ward, tho words should bo put in tho minutes. The object was that, there should be a fair record.

In reply to a question by Sir Joseph Ward, Mr. Hine said what he said was, " I must ask you to answer the qiiestion, or refuso to answer it."

Sir Joseph Ward retorted that the local Press supported his version of the matter.

Mr. Myers: May I ask the chairman when he used the remarks referred to by Sir Joseph Ward? Did ho intend they should bo used in an offensive manner?

Tho Chairman : You have no right to raiso any discussion at this juncture. Hon. Alien: I think it is very wrong of you to raise the question. Mr. Myers": I bow to your decision. Tho Chairman: I must ask you to re-sumo your seat. Sir Joseph Ward: I move that tho words used by the chairman to me. "^Answer straight or refuse to answer tho question," bo recorded in tho minutes. Tho Chairman: I mush tulo the motion out of order. I did not use the words. Sir Joseph Ward: I protest against it' Tho Chairman : Resume your seat. Sir Joseph Ward: I have a right to on tor a protest. The Chairman: It will bo recorded. Sir Joseph Ward: Jt won't bo recorded that the words which are reported in tho Press are not recorded in tho minutes, and that tho minutes are an incorrect and incomplete record of the. proceedings of the Committee.

__ Mr. Myers rose to sneak, but the chairman ruled him out of order.

Mr. Myers said he was trying to throw oil on troubled waters, and suggested that the chairman should say thero was a. difference of opinion, and that he (Mr. Hine") did not mako the remarks offensively.

Sir Joseph Ward: T wish to record mv objection to tho minutes as being still inaccurate.

The Chairman: As directed by the Committee. I reported to the' House that Sir Joseph Ward had refused to withdraw tho words used on Friday, and. after discussion, the House decided that tho matter be referred hack to tho Committee- for reconsideration. He thought if was his duty, in face of what tho Speaker had said (that the words were unparliamentary)- to ask Sir Joseph Ward to withdraw the statement that it was a downright piece of impertinence. He now asked Sir Joseph Ward to withdraw the statement that it was "a downright piece of impertinence."

Tha Chairman: Thcro can bo no comment.

Sir Joseph Ward : I rise in protest. Tho Chairman: No comment". Sir Joseph Ward and all the members of tho committee know that when the Speaker is called upon to decide a point of order there is no comment or explanation allowed. A member who has transgressed is called upon to withdraw the words used, and, in, my position as chairman, putting aside ail persona! feeling, I tako the same position as the Speaker. I ask, him. to withdraw. Alter somb further discussion by Mr. Hino and Sir Joseph Ward, tho latter said ho refused to withdraw tho words unless tho chairman withdrew the offensive statement he (Mr. Hine) had made to him. .

Tho Chairman said ho regretted that Sir Joseph Ward~saw fit to persist ia refusing to withdraw.

Sir Joseph Ward said the Speaker had ruled that tho matter could not again como before this Committee after tho matter was reported to the House. Mr. Hino retorted that if Sir Joseph Ward considered his ruling wrong, and tho Committee did so too, they could refer it to tho Speaker of the House. Hon. Allen asked Sir Joseph Ward to consider tho position, and strongly urged him personally to withdraw wie words. He said he so urged Sir Joseph Ward not in a. political but in ?. nonpoliticp.l and kindly spirit. Sir Joseph Ward thanked Mr. Allen for his suggestion, but regretted that ho could not accept it. Ho had no personal feeling against Mr. Hine, but he considered his ruling arbitrary and exeeptiomU The Committee then, on Mr. Allen's motion, adjourned for thirty minutes, and, on resuming, Mr. Allen again asked Sir Joseph Ward to withdraw tho words, but Sir Joseph Ward again declined.

Mr. Allen then said ho could do nothing but move that tho Committee report to tho House that Sir Joseph Ward refuses to withdraw tho words.

Sir Joseph Ward refused to withdraw tho words complained of.

Mr. P(\irce asked Sir Joseph Ward as an old Parliamentarian if he did not recogniso it would be impossible to carry on tho country's business it the chairman could bo accused of impertinence.

Mr. Hunan said the opinion of the House was a matter that should be settled out of Court. They had, however, not only to consider the actual words, but the ■ tono they wcro sooke.ll iv'-

Mr. Allen: I hope Mr. Hanan -' = no' going to get himself into the 6-amo <i:.ffieultv.

Mr. finnan: T am sorry the Minister is taking up that tone. It is only a sensitive Minister liko the Minister of i*'in:mr« who would make such a remark. Tho Chairman ought to recogniso thir- = that it i.s not usual for a Chairman to tako upon himself to dictate

■Mi*. A lion: I obiect to thoso worua

Tli3 Chairman: I must ask you to keep oft such debatable ground as to f^av that tho Chairman dictates, and J ask yon to withdraw the word "dictate.' 1 Mi-. Hanan: What statement did I