The Native Minister at Papawai.

Wairarapa Standard, Volume XIX, Issue 1816, 5 April 1886, Page 2

The Native Minister at Papawai.

THE NATIVE LAND BILL DISCUSSED. ALSO THE WAIBABAPA LAKE QUESTION. The Native Minister, the Hon Mr Ballance, visited Greytown on Friday morning, mid went down to Papawai to talk with the Natives over the lake and other questions. There were not many Natives present, but the representative men were there. Among the European visitors were Mrs Ballance and a lady friend, Mr Lewis,' Native Secretary Mr Lewis, Private Secretary to Native Minister, Mr Maunsell, Native agent, Mr Buchanan, M.H.B , Colonel McDonnell, Mill. Bunny, Mr McCardle, Mr Wood. Mayor of Greytown,' Mr Hogg, of the Wairarapa Star, Mr Nation of the Waibaeapa Standard, Mr Browne, as representative of the Evening Post, and two or three of the Lower Valley settlers.

After some delay Mr Ballance went up to the old schoolhouse, where the Natives were in waiting, and was received with cheers. Piripi and Wi Taka spoke a few words of welcome.

The Native Minister, replying, thanked the Natives present for their welcome expressed iu such kindly sentiments. He had tried to make himself acquainted with the Natives in both Islands, and be was sorry that he had not been able to visit the Natives of this district before. The fault was not altogether his own, for he had desired to have a meeting at Papawai last year. But better late than never, and he was now glad to meet so many representative men. Ho was desirous of talking over matters concerning their welfare—concerning a Bill to bo introduced into Parliament. When many large questions affected the Native people they should be considered. They had able men in Parliament who were able to inform them, hut still it was better that the Native Minister should discuss questions with their, and so learn what objections there might be, and what could be done to remove them. The Native Land Bill had been discussed by the Natives in various parts of the colony, and valuable amendments bad been made. At Waipetu, (Napier) the Bill was discussed at great length, several influential Natives taking part. It was agreed that the Natives should have the absolute right of disposal of their own land, for it was the opinion of the Government that great evils had arisen in the past through the way in which the land had changed Lands. When a block of land is to pass through ,the Land Court it should be submitted to a committee who should inform the Commissioner what their decision was concerning the block, and the Natives could sell or lease. Everything will then be open to the light of day. Again, no one person need dispose of his land if he prefers to keep it. He can object and have his portion cut off from the others. These were some of the points in the Bill. He (the Native Minister) was there that day to hear any questions the Natives had to bring forward. They might want information and he was tUere to try and make everything clear. One question be would like to talk about, and that was the Wairarapa Lakes. He had no particular proposal to make concerning them. He hoped [they would all come to a clear understanding upon this matter. For himself he represented the Natives rather than the settlers, and he therefore wished to their views upon this large question, lie saw no great difficulty iu the way of coming to an agreement. No harm could be dune in discussing the matter and exchanging views. Having again thanked the Natives lor their welcome, Mr Ballance said he would meet them at the meeting house when they were ready.

Tiio meeting then broke up for a couple of Lours, the European visitors returning to Urey town to ,'lunch. In the afternoon the large meeting bouse was opened, and about 100 Natives assembled, squatting around one end of the building upon a quantity of carpeting, The Native Minister, upon rising, said— Before the business commences I must congratulate the Maoris of Papavvai upon the excellent building they have erected. 1 have seen most of the wharepuuisl in New Zealand, but this one is by far the largest. lam told that it covers a quarter of an acre of ground, and that one mau did the whole work. The building appears to be a substan lial one and you deserve credit for such an erection. I hope the deliberations that may be conducted withiu this building may be characterised by wisdom. I have explained briefly some points in the Laud Bill ; if I can give any further information as to its meaning I shall be happy to do so. Pinpi ruse and said some of the Natives had attended the meeting at Napier, but the con tents of the Bill hadnotlbeen explained to those living at Papawai. What was said at the meeting at Napier was for the Natives of North Island.

Hori Te Huki said—We were dependent upon Wi Mahupuku for what wa know of the Bill, and therefore cannot give an opinion. lam glad that Mr Ballance has come. Our expectations aro fulfilled. Plripi-There have been three meetings about this Bill—one at Wanganui, one at Napier, and another here ; perhaps there will be another. If the meetings are In accord well and good. I think the King should be consulted. John Manihera— Salutations to you, friends, who have come to see us. I thauk Mr Ballance for his compliments concerning the meeting house. With regard to the Rill I prefer leaving it with such men as Plripi. ' Kariatiana—Wo are glad to see the Native Minister, who has met the Natives in this way. Other Ministers have not troubled to come and see us personally about our i.tiiira.

Plripi.—l want ouo thing settled. It is the object of the Native The opinions of the meetings at Napier, and Wanganui have been given ; our opinions are the same. It now remains for Tawhaio and his people to agree to it. The Native Minister— Piripi seems to have read the Bill, and thinks it a proper one; ho also thinks if a largo meeting like that at Napier supports the Bill it is worth supporting. The amendments suggested at that meeting were accepted. Bo far as I can learn there was great unanimity, only one man dissenting—that was Sydney Tawhainga, lie was so much in love with his own opinions that he would not listen to anything. He said he represented Tawhaio, but the Natives said be was no representative. It may bo taken that the Waipetu meeting and (iio - Government were agreed on this Bill. At Wanganui I attended by invitation to hear what the Natives there thought, and I explained the Bill. They laid a Bill of their own, which I was a; ked to man, uiid return j the next morning. 1 studied it, ami on the loih/aii.-g day expressed mv total dissent to it with one exception. It was suggested that “ Reposition ” should bo altered to •* Admin, istratiun/’ i agreed to it being called *’ The Niuive Lauds .Vdiiiinistratjvn j.od,” as a both ;' tit o. Otherwise I thought to i Bill would b ad to confusion. 1 answered obj.-c thins and left L-.e Uleeliog, and asked them to con.-idor the matter, nine; then i have received word that they have r, i’ded their own Bill, and have accepted that of the Government, with a few amendments. Topia afterwards informed me that ho was prepared to recognise the Government thu only power. I had a meeting with Hori, and he sai l ha was anxious to see a unity of the races. I told him that Tawhaio and those who had been home to England with him had been deceived by people in England, and they had deceived the Natives when they returned. Lord Derby gave them no assurance that they should have a separate Governments in this colony. I assured him there could not be a lusting peace unless the Natives recognised our Government. Both Topia and Hori say that Tawhiao will lecognise the Government. They say they have advised mm to come to Wellington during the session. Whatever he may do will not effect the action of the Government; , We Would like him to help make laws, and

wo will hoid out. the hand of fellowship' Ho should como at once. If he remains i r.o.iile he is isolated and powerless. Tnw--1 oioop.uot make a simile law of any validity i . Now Zetland. If he will consult with the Government he might make lawi suitable for both races. You will see that one chief after another has come over to the Government, Hoti, Topia, and others have expressed a desire for a lasting peace. There only remains one man—Major Te Wheio who is an old friend of mine. What he will do I cannot say. Of four chiefs who went home with Tawhaio three have come over to the Government. The policy of the present Government is to promote, as far as possible, the friendship of all the chiefs iu this Island, and we hope before many months to establish a permanent peace between every tribe. I believe in Tawhaio’s good intention, but I believe he has had bad advice, and has not looked at questions in their true light. The estrangement between him and the Government is not the fault of the Government. It is my intention to embody in the Bill the amendments made at the various meetings ; to have the revised Bill printed in Maori, ami circulated among the Maoris. I have shown you what has been done—who has consented, and who has not. It has given me pleasure to hear the chiefs speak at this meeting. If you. have nothing more to say on this question I have another one to bring forward. (Cheers). Hori Te fluki—l fully understand matters now that Mr Ballance has spoken. Piripi.—Hori has told me that peace has been thoroughly made between him and the Government. The news that this peace was made is known all over the island. Hori hopes that all troubles with the Government will be brought to him for settlement. I think the time has come when Tawhaio should come and help the Government. If the Government will do justice to the Natives I feel sure that he will assist. The Native Minister—l am much gratified with Piripi’s speech. It is for you to judge how far we are acting justly. It is our desire to do justice to the Maoris—to establish equality before the law—to extend to you all the privileges extended to the Europeans. As an instance I may mention the Native Volunteer Corps. The Natives of Papawai have the honor at present of being the only Native Volunteer Corps in the Colony; as Defence Minister I accepted their services to show that we would make no distinction between the races. Major Bunny says the corps is an efficient one, and I will see that clothing is sent before many days are over. I trust when the next field day occurs in Wellington the Papawai Volunteers will turn out and uphold the credit of the Maori people. I will new introduce the question of the Wairarapa Lakes. It is a delicate question with native owners. I know you are sensitive as to your rights and it is not ray intention to ask you to abandon any right you may have. The Government are in a peculiar position regarding this matter. They have bought out the shares of certain of the Maoris, and the settlers say as the water is not let out it does great damage. Piripi and I are of the same opinion on this question. In a letter he says the lake should be open when it does harm to the land around. The lake floods the laud by being damned at the mouth ; the natives say if it is leased the eel fishing will be injured. I wish you would put on one side the loss to property and on the other the loss in fishing, and judge. I want to state the case fairly and ask you to come to an agreement on this matter with the Government. Ido not want to surprise you into an immediate decision ; this would be wrong. But I make a suggestion and you must say whether it is a proper one or not. I think that the owners of the lake might appoint a committee of six or seven persons with a chairman; let them consider the matter and report to the Government- I am going away for a fortnight, and the chairman could come and see me on my return after having taken the opinion of the committee. I will see that he has a free pass and you shall be at no loss in this matter. There is a feeling of irritation between the natives and the settlers over the lake question. Ido not want to see the Maoris injured, nor the settlers either by the flooding of the laud. I think I have a right to say that the natives will have as much a right to have the question settled as anyone. It is an old unsettled question among you and I appeal to you to assist the Government in this matter.

Wi Mahnpuku spoke a {ew words of welcome and referred to the Land Bill. Regarding the Lake he said—l am pleased to hear Mr Bullance's words about the Lake. But if he remained two or three days he might be acquainted with that question. I approve of the proposition to have a committee. They had agreed at Waipetu regarding a block of land and it was the opinion of the committee that the committees should deal with these matters. If I was to enter into the question of the lake it would take me two or three days to deal with it. I believe the places that are under water and the smaller lakes belong to the natives.

Plripi.—l think the Government and the Europeans are wrong about the Wairarapa Lake. I objected to the actions of the past and I object to the sale of the lakes by the natives. I have only now met a Minister who has coma to settle the question. Mr Sheehan asked for a settlement, but his administration failed. I ask that this matter be left till to-morrow and we will have a conference to-night about it. There has been great trouble over this lake. 1 agree with the proposal that a committee should make a suggestion and that the chairman should wait upon the Government. We will decide this evening about giving an answer to your proposal.

John Manihera seconded this. The Native Minister.—Shall we meet tomorrow at 11 o’clock ?

An aftirmative answer being given, the meeting dispersed. SATUBDAT3 MEETING. About’ll o'clock on Saturday the Native Minister met the natives according to arrangement. Piripi said—We have consented to appoint a committee to consider the lake question, but there are points which must stand over until the committee is appointed because some of the owners are absent. It must be left today, but when we decide wo will communicate with the Government. When the lake question is settled there will be other matters to look into which cause trouble to Europeans and Natives.

The Native Minister—Piripi’s words are good. He has accepted my proposal to have .a committee to investigate this matter. As the owners are scattered it will take some time but I hope the committee will bo appointed as soon as possible. It is for tiie sake of peace and unity that the Government have taken this step. There is a question which arises out of a letter from Piripi to the Government. He was willing I to release the waters provided no one siui'ereJ. I ask Piripi if the hike cannot ho opened at once. It is not worth while waiting until a committee is formed before this is seen to. Concerning the other troubles mentioned by Piripi 1 am prepar'd to meet linn and go inio everything. TV district committee should first consider these i, ■' w .nid let luo know the representative man u.., whom I am to deal, i give ray acsorances that if these grievenccs are brought before me .1 will berts ready to settle them as yourselves. Id other parts the Maoris want their reserves subdivided. The Maoris ean never attain to a high state ot civilisation until every Maori knows Uis own lot, and I hope you will think over this. Another matter is the franchise. (Mr Ballanee here fully; explained the matter). Piripi—Those fishing in the lake have spoken. Wlmn there is a new the lake will be broken up. The tribe are out there now fishing. Piripi, Wi Mahupuku, and two or three others asked several questions concerning the franchise and expressed opinions upon it Mr Buchanan, M.H.lt , said he wislio I to apologise for the absence of Mr Bei than', who was m the South Island. He was pleased t > be at suob a meeting and (banker the Native Minister for the clear way in which he bad brought subjects forward. Discussion was the best means ol getting over differences, ■

and all would yel be setlled. He hoped that practical results would accrue from the meeting. The Native Minister briefly replied, and spoke of the great kindness he had received from the Natives wherever he had visited. He had seen a strong desire on the part of the* Maoris to improve their position, and he wonld help’that desire as far as he was able. The meeting then broke up.