PUBLIC UTILITIES IN CATHEDRAL SQUARE.

Star (Christchurch), Issue 18453, 2 May 1928, Page 9

PUBLIC UTILITIES IN CATHEDRAL SQUARE.

BOARD OF HEALTH COMMITTEE TAKES EVIDENCE CONCERNING CITY COUNCIL’S PROPOSED NEW LAY-OUT

from organisations and individuals interested in 1 4 . the City Council’s proposed new lay-out for the central portion of Cathedral Square was taken this morning by a committee of the Board of Health, which was specially set up for the purposfe. The Hon J. A. Young, Minister of Health, is chairman of the committee, and the other members are Lady Luke, of Wellington, and Dr William Irving, of Christchurch. i A model of the proposed lay-out has been built for the City Council by Mr W. E. Bateman, and this was exhibited in the Council Chambers.

The design for the new lay-out provides for a colonnade round the garden plot in the centre of the Square. It will have a width of 13 feet into which will project the tramway inspector s office, the women’s rest room, the parcels office, and the men’s lavatory. The tramway shelter will be provided in the front of the colonnade. The existing men’s conveniences will be added to the women’s conveniences. The City Council is seeking authority to raise a loan under the Public Health Act for the purpose of carrying out the scheme, without taking a poll of the ratepayers. The Minister explained the functions of the committee and read the minutes of the - meeting of the Board of Health held on February 21, when the committee was set up. The proceedings were opened in the Ministerial Room in the Government Buildings, but on account of the large number of witnesses desiring to be present an adjournment was immediately made to the City Council Chamber.

Statement From Mr R. E. Green. The Minister said he had received several letters from individuals desiring to give evidence. The secretary of the Citizens’ Association had written stating that it would be unable to submit evidence as it had not had sufficient time to call a meeting of its members to discuss the matter. Mr R. E. Green, a gentleman who had taken a keen interest in the matter, had also written forwarding a statement. At a later stage he (the Minister) would ask that that statement be accepted as evidence.

Mr R. J. Loughnan, City Solicitor, said that the Citv Council wanted the members of the committee to make themselves as familiar as they could be with the situation existing in Christchurch. The Square was the hub of the city as far as traffic was concerned. That spot was the starting point for 16 tram routes, 19 bus routes, it had 6 taxi stands, 5 picture theatres, and on race days and special occasions it was the place where large numbers of people congregated. In view of these circumstances the City Council was of opinion that the Square was the proper place for .the sanitary conveniences. The existing conveniences were totally inadequate. Cleverly Devised Plan. The plan prepared was a cleverly devised one which, while providing for increased accommodation for the conveniences, would convert the design into a pleasing one from all angles. Mr Loughnan said that a tally of the number of persons using the men’s conveniences was taken during race week last November. The tally showed that during the week 27,000 persons had used the conveniences, and during the busiest hour BS4 men had had occasion to visit them. That was at the rate of fourteen a minute, and it represented a total of a million and a third a year.

The Mayor's Evidence. The Mayor of Christchurch, the Rev J. K. Archer, said that in the progress of time a complete change had taken place in regard to the Square. When Christchurch was first laid out it was probable that it was the intention of the residents that the central portion of the Square should be laid out in garden?. The position now was that the Square had become the civic centre of Christchurch, and it was purely an impossible dream to suppose that that Square should revert to gardens. He wished to point out that the present proposals had not originated with the present council. There seemed to be a desire to side-track the issue, and it was necessary to point out that fact. The proposal originated with a previous council, and at that time received the approval of many public bodies and the whole of the Christchurch Press. All that the present council is doing is to honour the decision of previous councils. ' In reply to the Minister, the Mayor said that the original plans for enlarging the conveniences w’ere drawn up in 1916.

The Mayor went on to say that the question of removing the conveniences was not under consideration. What was being considered was whether the conveniences should be made adequate or whether they should continue to be inadequate as at present. It had been suggested that there was no need for conveniences in the centre of the city, but he would point out that at the present time there were only two conveniences for men and one for women and girls. He presented a return showing t«at on one day 2500 adult women used the women’s conveniences in the Square. The existing conveniences were paying their way handsomely, and it was estimated that in less than ten years the whole of the capital cost would b 6 paid off. Was Board Misled? “ I am a little puzzled regarding the attitude of the Board of Health,” the Mayor added. “ Several years ago the Board of Health gave permission to raise a loan for the purpose of enlarging the conveniences, and now that authority has been withdrawn.” The Minister: What were the circumstances ? “ I believe the Board of Health has been misled,” replied the Mayor. He said he believed that the board had been given to understand that the scheme was part of the memorial scheme for fallen soldiers. He wished to point out that the two schemes, though adjacent to each other, were quite separate and distinct. The pro- ■ posal was that the Memorial Column Committee should pay for its scheme and the City Council for the scheme it put forward. .He thought that, for some reason, the board had been led to believe that, because the column was not going to be there, the conveniences should not be there. He submitted that at least the permission given to the City Council previously should be reinstated. “ Noisy Little Crowd. ’ The Mayor went on to say that there was very little opposition to the scheme in the city. He did not believe that 5 per cent of the citizens were opposed to the scheme.

The opponents were a very noisy little crowd who were trying to make the board believe that there was a strong body of opinion against it.

With regard to the opposition of the United Burgesses’ Association, the Mayor said that it was based on the belief that all the trams should be removed from the Square. That was an idealistic and impossible proposal. The Mayor concluded by expressing the hope that the members of the committee would personally inspect the conveniences before concluding the evidence.

Councillor A. W. Beaven referred to the importance of Cathedral Square as the transport centre of the city. He contended that there was a real need for the tramway shelter and the conveniences in the Square, and said he was confident that the great majority of the citizens were in favour of the proposed lay-out. Details of the City Council’s proposals were given by the City Engineer (Mr A. R. Galbraith). He said that the total cost of the proposed scheme was £(750, of which £IOOO would be contributed by the Tramway Board. He handed in a number of detailed returns.

Attitude of Newspapers. Mr S. Hurst Seager, who was assessthe c ? m P e tition conducted in 916 for a suitable design for the layout of the Square, said that it was quite correct that at that time opinion Th S m favour of the scheme fro™ r^ e - read a leadin S article from the Christchurch “Press” warmlu < :°”V ne,l ding the scheme, and stated that the Lyttelton Times” also favoured the scheme, but he had no re- ,? f the edit <>rial attitude of the Star.

Mr G. Gould: The “Press” got rid of (Laughtelo Wh ° Wrote that ar tide.

, r G- Sullivan. M.P.: I suppose the same thing would happen to this Jr°v f wrote a similar article? *J r Gould: Quite likely. Mr Seager said he had tried to find out the reason for the remarkable change in the attitude of the newspapers of Christchurch. There had not been a single protest against the scheme until a certain number of citizens wanted to put a memorial column in the Square. The slogan “A column in the* Square.” was so well put forward and carried on by prominent citizens that anything that interfered with that proposal was anathema to them. He had the greatest possible sympathy with those citizens who, in his opinion, thought wrongly that the centre of the Square was the place of honour. Mr Gould: So it is.

Mr Seager said that, in his opinion, the Square was the worst place that could possibly be chosen for the memorial column. He had opposed the proposal to erect the column there solely in the interests of the Column Committee itself.

Mr Seager was proceeding to refer to the position in regard to the memorial column, when Mr Gould protested that the committee was not sitting for the purpose of considering the memorial column.

The Minister allowed Mr Seager to proceed.

A Focussing Point. Mr Frank Thompson, general manager of the Christchurch Tramways, said that over 25,000,000 passengers were carried on the trams each year, the great bulk of whom entered or left the cars in the Square, which was the natural focussing point of the whole tramway system. That being so, anything in the nature of public conveniences should be as handy as possible. The Tramway Board had been glad to contribute £IOOO for the provision of a tramway shelter.

Mrs T. E. Taylor, Dominion president of the Women's Christian Temperance Union, said that the women's organisations of Christchurch had done their best to find an alternative site for the women s rest room, but it had been unable to find one. She felt that she could speak for every women’s organisation in saying that there was no question of removing the existing conveniences, but that there was a very urgent necessity for improving them. The women of the city were anxious that the improvements should take place, and that the state of affairs existing at present should no longer continue. She had heard a great number of complaints about the inadequacy of the present conveniences. The Women’s Club. The Minister said he noticed a letter from the Women’s Club in the newspapers, and he asked if any of the members of the club were interested in social matters affecting women and children.

Mrs Taylor said that, as a matter of fact, a small proportion of the members were also members of other organisations. She was a member herself.

The Minister: Does the club take an interest in women and children ? Mrs Taylor: It does not exist for that purpose. In reply to the Minister, Mrs Taylor said that.. the site on which the municipal market now stood had not been considered, but, in her opinion, it would not be suitable, because it was too far from the shopping centre.

Position Should Be Reversed. Councillor D. G. Sullivan, M.P., said that the two men's conveniences that had been closed down had been closed as a result of objections from the people occupying premises in the vicinity of them. Those conveniences w’ere small and did not have attendants in charge. With regard to the City Council’s proposals for the enlargement of the conveniences, Councillor Sullivan said that instead of the City Council having to plead with the Board of Health for authority to go ahead with the work the position should be reversed and the Board of Health should be insisting on the council carrying out the scheme. The question of site, he considered, should be left for the people of the city to decide, the Board of Health deciding whether additional conveniences were necessary. The elected representatives of the citizens should decide the question of site, and not a small burgesses’ association or other small associations. The pre-

sence of Mr Gould made it clear where the opposition was coming from.

Mr Gould’s Views. Mr Gould said he did not come to the inquiry to mention the subject of the war memorial, and he did not come to oppose the provision of conveniences in the Square. He agreed that additional conveniences were required and that the Square was probably the right place for them. But he believed that it was in violation of the feelings of the citizens that they should be placed in the central block. He saw no objection to underground conveniences, and considered that they could be provided quite adequately in the Square underground. In other parts of the world conveniences -were provided below the ground. He contended that the quoting of opinions from the newspapers of tw’elve years ago had no bearing on the matter at present, and ventured to say that if a poll of the ratepayers were taken on the proposals it would be lost. He also wished to state that if the City Council carried out the work without a poll of the ratepayers there v’as a body of citizens in Christchurch who would appeal to the Supreme Court to restrain the council from proceeding with the scheme. He had been advised by a high legal authority that siich an appeal would succeed. It would then be necessary for the council to obtain an Act of Parliament before it could go ahead with the scheme. The Minister asked why the City Council had not taken a poll on the question. The Mayor said that the council had the power to build the conveniences out of revenue or from the profits of its various municipal enterprises. It was thought by the council that the scheme should pay for itself. The Minister: Is the council in a financial position to do this work? The Mayor: Yes. Then why come to the Board of Health?” asked the Minister. “ For the reasons I have already explained,” the Mayor replied. “It is purely a question of policy, not possibility.” Lady Luke asked why place the men’s conveniences above the ground and the women’s conveniences underground? She considered it would be far more convenient for the women if the lavatories for them were placed above the ground. (Hear, hear.) The Mayor said that Lady Luke’s suggestion could be carried out without difficulty. Councillor E. 11. Andrews said that there were two factions in the City Council, but the members were quite unanimous in regard to the scheme. Attitude of B.M.A. Dr Neil Guthrie, president of the Canterbury Division of the British Medical Association, said that that body protested against the erection of the proposed building in Cathedral Square. It opposed the scheme because it considered that the founders of the city showed a commendable foresight in dedicating the space in Cathedral Square to posterity, and it considered that every effort should be made to guard against usurping any of the city’s open spaces for the erection of buildings. They did not consider that that area should be lost to the city on the plea of it being necessary to sacrifice it in the interests of public health. Undoubtedly the provision of sanitary conveniences in Christchurch had not kept pace with the expansion of the city. The lack of conveniences, however, was not limited to the central area. The governing bodies would be wise if they considered future necessity in areas in which at the present day the question of available space was not acute. In large cities one saw sanitary conveniences provided for the public either by the local governing body, or by shops, restaurants, hotels, etc. When space above ground was not available extensive and commodious conveniences are placed underground. Incidentally, was it worth considering if a more useful purpose would not be served by placing mnniciptal conveniences on the site of the existing market. With some exceptions, Dr Guthrie added, the sanitary conveniences provided in Christchurch by others than the municipality were deplorable. In this respect, Christchurch compared very unfavourably with many cities considerably smaller in size.

In reply to the Minister, Dr Guthrie said that he was not objecting to the provision of conveniences in the Square, but to the erection of the proposed buildings. He considered that although the Clock Tower was not very far from the Square, it was essential that conveniences should be placed there.

The Minister remarked that the evidence given by Dr Guthrie might provide food for thought by the City Council.

The Rev Stephen Parr, speaking in a private capacity, said that his objection to the scheme was on the grounds that it was opposed to the original purpose for which the Square was laid out. (Proceeding.)