HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES.

Star (Christchurch), Issue 5686, 3 October 1896, Page 6

HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES.

Friday, Oct. 2. ! AFTERNOON SITTING. Tho House mot at 2.30 p.m. . THE BANKING INQUIRY. I Mr Graham reported that the Banking i Committee had completed taking evidence, ! and he moved for an extension of time for seyon days to 'bring up the report. He said that the Committee regi'etted having to ask for a further extension of time, but it was owing to the number of -witnesses that had to be examined and 'also to the long hours the House had been sitting of lat'o. •■■■- •■■.•■ ■ : Mr Button asked whether this motion meant that tho' House was to be kept waiting till this report was brought up. Mr G. Hutchison called attention to the fact that he had been prevented from putting certain questions to witnesses by the Chairman of the Coni r mittee, and lie contended that no chair man had power to prevent any member putting the questions that had been refused referring to the action of a Minister and his connection with the banking legislation passed by the House. His grievance went further, and he said that tho Chairman of tho Committee actually ordered the official reporter of the Committee not to take any notice of his (Mr Hutchison's) questions, which, he submitted, was going a great deal further than the Chairman was warranted in going. He said that the proceedings of the Committee had been an entire travesty of justice, and its report would have no weight whatever with the country. . . , The Hon' R. J. Seddon said that it was in the power of the House to see that the proceedings of the Committee were conducted .in due form, and it seemed strange that Mr Hutchison was the 'only member- of the Committee who complained of any injustice. TIo hold thafc the Chairman was quite justified in refusing questions that were outside tho order of reference. Mr Hutchison had persisted in putting questions from time to time that were altogether outside the order of reference, and it was impossible for the Chairman to allow those questions to be put. He felt satisfied that the proceedings of the Committee had been properly conducted, and most valuable evidence had been elicited. They had kept strictly within the order of refex % enco, but this woulcl not have been done if Mr Hutchison had had his war. The result, on tlie whole, ho thought had been satisfactory. Mr . Bell supported the extension of time, and said that even at tho eleventh hour he had hoped the Committee would realise the desire of the House to ascertain whether there had been any writings-off, and now the . Committee had disregarded the wishes of the House. Captain Russell said that the House found itself in an exceedingly difficult position . over this question. They were asked to grant an extension of time of a week to the Committee. The Premier had told them that the House would prorogue in a week. They "would, therefore, liave the repeat of the' Committee brought down' on the last clay of the session. What, then, was to be the position of tho House in this matter? The Committee had been taking evidence for months past, and were familiar with the whole thing, and yet they asked for a week to prepare their report. How could the House possibly consider the matter on' the last day of the session ? He suggested that the Chairman should ask for three days to bring up the report, bo that the House would ItSVe some chance of considering it before the session was over. The Hon J. M'Kenzis said 'that • the motion to a^k for an extension of . time was passed yesterday. He denied that the Premier had. given an absolute promise to prorogue on Saturday week. All he had said was that -he should . endeavour to do so, bub he was not then aware that there would be two days spent in stonewalling. There was no necessity at all to ■ spend seven days in preparing the report of the Committee, and he thought it could be down by "Wednesday next, but the people of the colony would be the best judges as to the value of the evidence takon bei'ore tlic Committee. , His opinion was that the House should remain a week longer, if necessary, to finish its business. Mr Buchanan said that he had frequently been asked when this banking 'farce wag to end, and when they would cease wasting time over the whole thing. . Mr Graham regretted that Mr Hutchison had made a statement which had led to a premature discussion of this matter. He said that Mr Hutchison had . had every •opportunity extended to him on the Committee of asking any questions, but the particular case he quoted referred to private accounts, and that ho (Mr Graham) had ruled out of order. ][c stated, in reply to Contain Russell's question) that tilts Committee hoped to bo. able to present, their .•eporb en Wednesday next. He snid that the reports of the Press Association had been of sxich a character as to give a very fair and generally correct idea of the proceedings of fche Committee all through the inquiry, and these who followed these reports carefully woulcl havo no difficulty in becoming' acquainted with the whole position. The motion was agreed to. COI'YIUGHT TSIjBfiRAWS COMMITTEE. Mr G. W. Russell moved for an extension of time for the Copyright Committee for one week to bring up its report. Agreed to. SHOPS AND SHOP. ASSISTANTS. The Hon K. J..Szddon moved that the amendments made by the Legislative Council in the Shops and Shop Assistants Bill should be disagreed with. The amendments made were that tho .Council struck out of tho Bill the clause bringing banks under the Act, and also the clause respecting the delivery of. goods from the railways. He moved also thafc the Hon W. Hall- Jones, Mr Pirani and the mover should be appointed managers to confer with the Council in the mutter. Agreed to. HOROWHENUA. On the motion that the Horowhenua Block Bill should be read a third time, Messrs Wilson, Heke, Wi Pere, W. Hutchison and Pirani spoke on it. Sir Er. Stout strongly opposed the Bill, and resented the idea of the Minister of Lands that those who opposed ifc did so from personal motives against the Minister. Every Bill should be discussed and treated

on its own merits, and his opinion i was that this Bill would be no settlement of the question at all. It was most unfair that the Natives who were cut out of this block should not get any land from their ancestors. He strongly defended Major Kemp from the charges of fraud brought against him in the debate on the Bill, and asked the House whether this was a proper Bill for Parliament to pass. It was a monstrous proceeding, and those who imagined that this .Bill would settle the Horowhenua difficulty were very much, mistaken. He had never acted professionally for Major Kemp, but he could nob forget the great services rendered by him to the colony in the Maori wars, and as a reward for those services he was to be deprived of his land in his declining years by the Bill now before them. Captain Russell said that the principle of thejßill seemed to. him so wrong that he felt compelled to enter a protest against it, useless though it might be. He strongly objected ,to Parliament usurping :thef unctions of the Suprenie Coiirt, ; as was now so frequently done. It seemed to him. entirely wrong to override the judgment of the Supreme Court, and t"o' : set aside certificates- tinder the Land Transfer Act. This ease should' have been tried before the Law Courts of the colony, and if they affirmed that a parliamentary majority had a right to overthrow the titie to land it was a most serious question for the people of the colony and might be used at any time in future. ■ Mr Button protested against the Bill* and said, that Parliament had never attempted sach a thing as they were now asked to do. Dr Newman said that whilst various members were opposing this Bill they should remember that for years past Major Kemp had frittered away the laud of the Natives acre by acre. He supported the third reading of the Bill, and thought that tho House was doing a right thing in tixing those titles. ■ ' Mr Hall supported the Bill, and said that the debate that had taken place showed that the Government had < one right in introducing it to rectify a. great wrong. ■■*" - The Hou J. M'Kenme felt greatly obliged to Dr Newman for the commonsense view he had taken of this question. They had had the matter before the House for yeai-s past, and it was time some action should be taken to settle it in some way or other. With respect to what had been said about the Supreme Gouifc, he did nob wish to disparage any evidence taken before a judge of that court, but he held that the evidence taken before a Royal Commission was jusfc as trustworthy as any heard before a judge of the Supremo Court. If Parliament was not to be _ regarded as a , High Court to adjust cases of fraud, and others, what was it for ? He held that they had a perfect right to deal with matters of this kind. He complimented Sir R. Stout on the change in his tone from his speech on the second reading of the Bill, as he then denounced the whole proceedings in the most violent manner. He contended thafc there was necessity for the Bill, and Sir R. Stout himself admitted that by saying thafc this would not settle the matter. Ho (Mr M'Konaie) had been accused by people concerned in .this block that he was influenced in his action by personal motives. He emphatically denied that, and said that it would be a disgrace to Parliament if it separated without something being done to put this matter right, as the Natives interested had been knocking at the door of Parliament for years past asking for redress of their grievances. If the matter was to be settled at all how could it be settled except by legislation ? They were j told that they were taking away a man's j knd, but if that land was not obtained honestly, the House had a perfect right to say who the land should belong to. The motion was agreed to by 31 to 12. The House rose at 5.30 p.m. EVENING SITTING. The House resumed at 7.30 p.m. The Inspection of Machinery Bill was committed. Mr Masset moved an amendment in Clause 2, providing thafc in the case of machinery used solely for threshing and . chaff-cutting purposes, and not working more than six months in one year, the cer- , tificate shall remain in force for two j years. j The Hon R. J. Seddon did not object to ! the amendment, which was carried. j . In Clause 10, machinery subject to the Act, Mr Houston moved to strike out "machinery worked by gas, oil or water " from the clause. The Hon R. J. Seddon said that the House would be surprised when he stated thafc this was the law at the present time, but he had no objection to the clause being struck out altogether. After considerable discussion, the Hon R. J. Seddon said that he should withdraw tho Bill. He had brought it down to reduce fees, not to increase them. Mr O'Regan moved thafc progress should bo reported on the Bill. Several members objected to progress • being reported. : Mr Buchanan said he hoped that the Committee would allow the Bill to proceed, ' as he wanted to reduce the taxes on machinery in fche schedule. j The Honß. J. Seddon said that a change j

had come over the House, as they now wanted to pass a Bill which they previously wished to throw out. It' that were so, let the Co'minittee go on with the Bill. . • The motion for reporting progress was lost by 53 to 8. . Mr Houston's amendment was carried by 33 to .26. . Mr Masset moved a new clause enabling any person who holds an engine-driver's certificate under tho Inspection of Machinery Act to, act as the driver of a traction engine. Carried by 48 to 6. Mr Earnshaw moved that engines driven by water shall not apply to Pelton or turbine wheels of five horse-power nominal or under. Carried'oii the voices. Tho Hon E». J. Seddon moved an , allround reduction of fees inthe schedule. Agreed to. . Mr Houston moved to strike 6ui ; ,of tho schedule- the words " gas, oil or air." Agreed to. ." '_..'" ; The BillNvas ordered tp' be reported with, amendments. . .... . „.!,, ; ' ' . J '. v . MINING.".'/ ~ r [ '.-; ."" ; vThe 'Mining^ Act Amendment Bill, was fu&her considered in committee. • ~ .-. .. J "Clause B— Lands open for inspecting and lands in mining districts liable to be resumed for mining purposes. Mr /Pbasbk, moved that consideration of this clause should 1)0 deferred for the present till the compensation clauses had been disposed of. He disclaimed any intention of stopping the progress of the Bill, but he hoped that the Committee would agree to this reasonable amendment. A lengthy discussion ensued. The Hon A. J. Cadjuan hoped that the Committee would first decide whether the principle of resumption should be agreed to, and then would be the time to decide on compensation. Sir R. Stout pointed out that if the resumption of land for. mining purposes were.agreed to, it might involve the colony in a quarter of a million of . money for compensation,, as; the Bill did not apply only to the Thames and Coromande] districts, but to Oainaru and other parts of the colony.. ..... ... . Clause 2 eventually postponed. : The lion W. .J../BL Larnach moved to report progress on the Bill. „. Carried after considerable discussion by 24 to 23. GOVERNMENT VALUATION OF LAND. The Government Valuation of Land Bill was further considered in Committee. Clause . 2— Governor may divide the colony into electoral districts, and appoint officers, elicited a lengthy discussion, which was proceeding when the Telegraph Office closed at 2 a.m.