Provincial Council.

Taranaki Herald, Volume XIII, Issue 666, 6 May 1865, Page 7

Provincial Council.

Monday, May 1. The Speaker took the chair at 640 p.m. — Present : Messrs Gledhill, Kelly, A. Atkinson, Bundle, Upjohn, and Provincial Secretary. The minutes of the previous sitting were read and confirmed.

Mr. F. U. Gledhill asked the Provincial Secretary — "Whether tho Government waa in a position and willing to lease the Iron Sand."The Provincial Secretary would ask leave to postpone his reply till next sitting-. The qnestion on the notice piper bad escaped him, and he wa3

not then prepared to answer it. — Leavo granted. Mr. J. T. Upjohn rose to move — "That a respectful address be presented to his Honor the Superintendent stating that in the opinion of this Council the Public Pound ii at present in a most inconvenient place, aud that it should bo removed to the most central plnce available for it." — In doing so, he said : The situation of the Public Pound was at present a most inconvenient one, and he would suggest tho neighbourhood of Poverty Flat as a more fitting place for it. Since he had given notice of this motion he had understood that the prisoners with bullock carts had been employed four days in carting out sand from tho pound, and, if it filled up in this way, that alone would constitute a good reason why ifc should bo removed. He had, however, other reasons for moving the resolution. Danger was incurred by driving cattle through the town, and this would be obviated by the Removal of the pound to the neighbourhood he had named, for Bell Block and Omata had pounds of their own. It wng urged, ho was aware, that the pound was placed in its present position to be near the landing of cattle, and he thought, perhaps it would be advisable to have two pounds — one for cattle on landing, and nnother for those driven in from the districts where there was no pound, and this would keep diseased cattle separate from those of tho setilbrs.

Mr. F. U. Glkdiull would Becond tho motion. The present pound, ho thought, was in a bad position, and it so tilled up with sand that it would be a continual expense to (ho Government. He thought, however, were "it removed to a more central place than Poverty Flat it would be better. The Provincial Secret AßYsaid thcro appeared to be some misunderstanding in this matter. The object of the pound was two fo!d — first for cattle from the couutoy, and secondly for those landed from vessels. >fTo avoid tho danger of animals running up the streets, it had been proposed to romovo the pound from the end oi'Brougliam-sfcreet to the other sido of Mr. Kelly's saw mills, but that site was thought ineligible. As it had always bjen admitted ihat a pound for cattle landing should bo on the beach, his Honor the Superintendent had requested the Surveyor to point out a place for ifc free from sand, and the present site had been fixed on. As to the mention made by the hon. mover of tho resolution and seconder as to the expense of keeping the pound clear of sarid, he (the Provincial Secretai'y) was informed by the Poundkeeper that nothing further would be reqnirod to be done to it for the next, twelve months. The removal, therefore, he thought undesirable. It would cost '£so, and necessitate two ponnds. He would move ag an nmondment 1 * That it is undesirable thai the pound bo removed at present."

Mr. T. Kelly would second the amendment. He thought it unadvisablo to remove the pound. They could not afford the money. Mr. A. Atkinson would have no objection either to tho motion or amendment, so long as the Council was not plodgcd to vote any more money.

_ Mr. Bundle would support tho amendment. All that was wanted to keep the sand out of the present Pound was somo V.D.L. palings around it. Mr. Ufjohn, in reply, said he thought the arguments used by the last speakers were unsound. Thero had been already the expense of carts and prisoners, four days, and there would be that of the V.D.L. palings. He believed there would be a continual expense with it. He was not wedded to Poverty Flat in particular, but considered the present site of the pound' inconvenient for cattle driven in from the country. He thought it was inconsistency to talk of expense when salaries had been increased. The amendment was carried. The Pjovincial Secretary moved "That a respectful address be presented to his Honor the Superintendent requesting him to place a sum upon the Estimates sufficient to purchase the late Mr. Beardsworth's schoolroom. He said, perhaps the hon. member who had just taunted him with voting money away for other purposes, and not vote for removali.of the pound, would consider this motion Kp'oinfc in instance. He maintained, however, that it was quite proper to voto what was absolutely desirable, and this was a caae of that kind. Tho motion referred to Message 2fbv27, sent down to the Council 'by his Honor the Superintendont, enclosing an offer of gale fvom Archdeacon Govctt of this property to the Government, for the sum at which it had been valued by Mr. W. S. Atkinson (£310), and recommending the purchase. Mr. Upjohn said that so far otherwise he would second the motion, for in the first place looking at the schoolroom, he thought it would fetch more than the sum asked for ifc were it sold by auction, and secondly, he would support it on the ground of the great want of education existing in our midst. In his neighbourhood there wore many children running about almost like little savages. Mr. KeIiLY was always willing to go in for education, but he thought some definite plan should be brought forward. But the qnestion was, how was this sum to be raised ? He thought the Education Reserves might be let. Perhaps the Provincial Secretary would say whether ifc was the intention of the Government to lease the reserves in the town. Mr. Rundle thought very little bad been dono by the Provincial Government in way of education, and he thought they might commence here. He would vote for the motion. Mr. Atkinson wished to know whether the section of land on which the school stood was included in the motion. The Provincial Secretary replied in the affirmative, and obtained leave to add after the words " school-room," the words " and the land on which it stood." With reference to the question of Mr. Kelly, he would state there was such a thing as a Publio Trust Ordinance, and the Provincial Government had nothing to do with these reserves. At present they were in the hands of Trustees. As he had stated on a previous occasion, the Superintendent had taken a bill up. to the last Assembly at Auckland to legalize the re-seleotion that had been made, but the session was too short to admit of its being passed through. It would be takon again at the next session, and therefore the Superintendent had thought the reserves had better remain as they were for the present. Mr. Gledhill did not tlu'nk ifc wise legislation providing education until parents were compelled to send their children to school. Mr. Atkinson certainly thought it very discreditable that children should be running about the streets ad was Btated, like so many young savages. It was the duty of the State to give facilities for education and if necessary perhaps to enforce it, but he regretted to sco the Government carrying on the business in such a " piecemeal" way. They seemed to have no- regular plan laid down,; one day it was one thing, and the next another. There was nothing done systematically. Why did the Government wish to have this one school-house P Were ifc not that all other members had spoken on the question, he would have moved as an amendment that this sum of money should be a charge against the Education Reserves. The Provincial Secretary explained that Archdeacon Govetfc was desirous of disposing of the property at once, and sending the money home. When Mr. Tatton was in that Council h? had several times asked for an Education bill to be sent down, but the Superintendent had not thought it advisable in the circumstances of the Province ; but as this school was now for sale, and if the Government did not buy it some one else would, he thought it desirable that it should be retained, as they now had to pay rent. The motion was earned. Mr. Atkinson, in the absence of Mr. Pitcairn, asked leave at his request to postpone the following motion standing in his name until the next sitting: — "That a respectful address be presented to his Honor the Superintendent, requesting him to appoint a committee of three persons to enquire into and report upon the preBent state of the Public Reserves of this Province, and also to value them so that these reserves may be fairlyappoftioned and applied to the different purposes for which they were intended." The Provincial Secretart moved the second reading of the following votes of money, which were carried with the oxcrption noted,—

£ «. a. Inspector of Weights & Measures 60 0 0 Jient of Oilic j 10 0 0 Registrar of Dogs — ss. per head on dogs registered. General Contingencies — Interest on overdraft at Bank ... 1000 0 0 Contingencies 700 0 0 Mr. A. Atkinson moved that the latter sum b» reduced to £500. Mr. UrJOHN seconded the motion. Mr. Gledhill moved as an amendment that the Bum should be £300. Mr. Kelly seconded. The Speaker sa>d the rule laid dWn was for him to put tho lowest amount first. He therefore put tho amendment JBUOO. This was lost on a division by tho casting voto of the Speaker. Ayes, 3. — Messre. Glodhill, Kelly, nud Atkinson. Noes, 3.— Mpesi's. Kundlc, Upjohn, nnd Provincial Secretary. Some discussion arose as to ■whether an hon. member could vote against his own motion, ami ifc was ruled by the Speaker he could not.- This it was alleged Mr. Atkinson had done by voting for another amondmen., but tho Speaker did not alter the division list. The following other items were then read a second tiirte : — Printing and Stationery 200 0 0 Education 400 0 0 Eradication of Thistles — On Publio nud Native Lands ... 100 0 0 On Absentee's Lands 60 0 0 Elisabeth lFurd, (2nd donation) 47 18 2 Gounoil Library 100 ,0 0 The Provincial Secretary then moved that the Council go into Committee of Supply. Carried. Mr. Gledhill would .ask the Provincial Secretary the value of tho moorings that had been losfc for the last two years. It appeared £1 5 had been offered for the recovery of them,' but if it could not bo done for thut sum why was not £20 or £'60 offered. ScriGus inconvenience was caused to shipping by their nofc being raisod. When tha present Harbor Master was appointed, everything was to be done, and he had now hold office tome seven or eight months. It waa a matter of great importance that there should be proper moorings as vessels would not come to the roadstead to bo driven to sea from want of them, as the case had been lately. He believed the steamers would raire them were they paid for it. Tho Provincial secretary could not. tell the hor. member the value of the moorings. The Provincial Secretary moved the sum of £1500, Immigration, and explained that it was only as an advance to those who wore sent home for by their friends here, through the Superintendent and Immigration agent. The whole amount ('would have to be refunded to the Government. Mr. Atkinson asked the Provincial Secretary how much of this sum the Government was bound to pay on account of liabilities contracted ? The Provincial Secretary could not exactly say, but the Provincial Treasurer told him that the vote could not safoly be reduced. Mr. Atkinson said he would remind the Committee thafcthoy had already voted within a £1000 of the revenue, and this sum if passed would land them £500 on the wrong sido of the account, and it was not the lnsfc. In order to postpone the item and give time for the necessary information, ho moved that the Council should resume. The Provincial Secretary said he had spoken to the Provincial Treasurer regarding this item for immigration advances, and he had said it ought not to bo reduced. Scarcely any loss had occurred to the Government as yet by advances made, and that had been principally with those brought from Otago. The way this amount would be applied was this — A settler here being desirous of getting out any of his friends from England, they were sent for by the Superintendent through the Immigration Agent afc home, the passage money being advanced by the Government as a loan. Mr. Upjohn would be inclined to vote for the sum which was only an advance. He thought it very desirable for the province that the frie.nds of settlers should bo brought out from the homo country. t He had opposed in a previous Bession the bringing of people from Ofcago on these conditions, because he considered that the class of immigrants Uiat would arrive would not be altogether dosircblc. The Speaker said the Government, he was aware, was already pledged to £1200 of the amount possibly to £300 moro. Mr. Atkinson said it was all very well to talk of this sum being only au advance, but supposing a man in a small way of business was to make a large advance repayable in 12 or 18 months, he might be bankrupt before ho got his money back. Mr. Upjohn thought as the Government were pledged, and the parties, as stated by the Speaker, eligible, there should be no objection to the vote. Mr. Kelly had no objection to immigration, but the question was where was the money to come from. The Provincial Secretary explained the Immigration Regulations existing under the sanction of that Council. Mr. Glediiill had not supported the poslponemont of the item with tho view of rescinding the vote, but he thought by doing so he might draw out of the Provincial Secretary some statement as to where the money was to come from. Ho should be prepared fco vote much more if he could bo shown how they were to pay it. The Council resumed, bat again went into Com* mitteo of Supply. The Provincial Secretary moved the sum of £1500 Immigration (advances). Mr. Atkinson moved that the' Council, resume that they might be informed to what -Extent the Government was pledged in the matter. The amendment being negatived, the original motion, £1500, was then put and passed. On the motion of Mr. Gledhtll the Council resumed and the Chairman reported progress. Mr. Kelly gave notice that he would move at the next sitting — " That in the opinion of this Council ifc is desirable that tho Publio Reserves bo lot half-pearly for the purpose of providing a fund for Educational purposes. The Council then adjourned until Monday, the Bth instant, afc^|3o p.m. __ J __