LAND COMMISSIONER AND PROVINCIAL SECRETARY.

Colonist, Volume VI, Issue 596, 10 July 1863, Page 3

LAND COMMISSIONER AND PROVINCIAL SECRETARY.

Mr. Parker moved " That the estimates be recommitted for the purpose of re-considering the item "Arrears,' 3 months, at £400 per annum, omitted from Eeservo Funds." In doing so lie apologised to the Council for bringing up the motion, but at the time the item passed, he was not present in the House, and he did not understand it. In endeavoring to get information on the matter he had referred to the comparative statement of the revenue and expenditure for last year published along with the estimates. He ineyr that the salary of the Crown J*n4 ComjwMignep w d. the ?wwwS<fciftw^ W

been voted year by year, and therefore he thought ■ there could be no arrears .due. Perhaps some. ipeihber of the Executive could give him the information required. Mr. Saunders said it would perhaps save the time of the Council, if he at once explained the circumstances which had rendered it necessary to ask the Council to vote this sum. When the present Land Commissioner was appointed to that office by the General Government, the Superintendent did not at once appoint a gentleman so little known to him as the Provincial Secretary. But the salary of £400 had been voted to the two offices combined, conse; quently neither the Superintendent nor the Provh> cial Auditor felt justified in paying the whole salary to a gentleman holding only one office. Mr. Richmond declined to receive-any smaller sum, preferring to await the pleasure of the Provincial Council. Hence this sum of £100 was placed on the Estimates as three months' salary for the time that Mr. Richmond held the office of Land Commissioner, paid to the commencement of the present financial year. This was all he had to say on that point. He was glad, however, that the member for Motucka had .brought up this matter, as it gave, him an opportunity of stating that in the remarks which he felt called on to make when the question of the Land Commissioner and Provincial Secretary was before the Council, it .was not his intention in anything he said to charge either the Crown Land Commissioner or the Colonial Secretary with any corrupt practices (hear, hear). There was no such intention. He (Mr. S.) knew he was relating facts, and facts which were very well known to many persons both in and out of the House . of Representatives (hear, hear), and ho could not suppose for a moment that the relation of these facts would have hurt the feelings of any one, and if it had, he had only to state that he had not the least intention of doing so (hear, hear). On the motion of Mr. M'Rae one month's leave of absence was granted to Mr. Lewthwaite, member for Massacre Bay, unavoidably absent from the province. The Council then adjourned.

. WEDNESDAY, JULY 8. The Council met at five o'clock. ■ Present—The Speaker, the Provincial Solicitor, Dr. Monro, Messrs. Curtis, Elliott, Kelling, Kingdon, Burn, Butler, M'Eae, Harkness, Thompson, Good- i man, Saunders, Shnmonds, Parker, Macmahon, Baigent, and Pollock. SUPPLEMENTARY ESTIMATE?. . ; Message No. 17 was received from the Superintendent, transmitting supplementary estimates for the consideration of the Council. These, said the message, included "with one exception the items!, recommended by the Council. The item excluded is, ' Deputy Auditor, £10.' This expenditure the Superintendent considered" as unnecessary, as no service is rendered to the public by the holder of that office. Whenever his services are required, payment for the same is provided for by the Auditor's Salary Act, 1862." The Supplementary Estimates are as under, —Appleby cart bridge over the Waimea river. £5000: Biwaka harbor, £30 ; Compensation to Benjamin Parks, £10; ditto to J. H. Shaw, £10; Beading rooms in country districts to meet equivalent subscriptions, £200; Agricultural Association, £200; Boad between Waimea West and Moutere, £200; Aniseed Valley, voted last year, £100 ; Bridle Track from Stoke to Wallis' and Aniseed Valley, £100; repairs to Collingwood Jetty, £25: chief surveyor for horse forage, £25 ; district constable, Suburban South, £25. Total, £5925. [In addition to that sum there are others as formerly notified in our columns, such as £1000 extra for contingencies, £1000 extra for steam purposes, and several other smaller sums which raise the Estimates as passed nearly £9000 above the amount as sent down to the Council.] RAILWAYS IN NELSON. The Pboyincial Solicitor moved for a select committee to consider the best means of connecting the south-western districts of the province with the port of Nelson, with power to call for persons and papers; to consist of the Speaker, Mr. Elliott, Mr. Parker, Mr. Burn, Mr. Pollock, Mr. Thompson, and the mover. In proposing the motion which stood in his name, it would probably be expected that he should explain why he did so. The fact was, the Government were not in possession of sufficient information to authorise tliem to proceed with a railway at once. There was a necessity for knowing what amount of traffic would likely .arise. As some members of Council were desirous of seeing step's taken in this direction this year, he had thought it proper to bring forward this motion, that a committee might be appointed to make the proper enquiry while Mr. Rochfort and other persons able to give evidence were in the place. Various projects had been suggested for a railway. One was to construct a line to the Waimea, another to Wangapeka, one to Motueka, and one by the Wai-iti. All these were very expensive, and, whether worked by locomotive or horsehaulage, would cause a great outlay. A plan for a wooden railway had been mooted, and this of course would be cheaper; but even that up the interior would cost from £160,000 to £200,000. He did not think it would be sufficient to take a railway only up to the Waimea. People who had carts there would object to use it. And, besides, what a railway was wanted for was to open up the country (hear, hear). He should be very glad to see a railway all the way to the West Coast, and in fact, to the other end of the island. But thp cost and the returns should be looked at. Many people thought that if orfce a railway were made, there would be no expense in keeping it tip. But this was a great mistake. He remembered seeing lately an article in the Times on the subject' of the colonies borrowing money. They were almost always borrowing money, it was said, and the people encouraged the colonial governments to do so, because they would get the benefit of the money being spent amongst them. An executive too who borrowed money in this way were generally very popular for the time ; but it was declared that these were not the Mends of the people in reality, unless it was clearly shown that there would be an adequate return for the money. If they made a railway in this province, the Council must borrow money for the purpose, and before doing so it was absolutely necessary to have evidence of the certainty of a fair return. The Government were by no means opposed to the construction of a railway, but would be very glad to support it; and he had brought the question before the Council in order to see if they could get further information, and be justified in proceeding with the undertaking. Mr. Buen seconded the motion. Mr. Pollock moved the addition of the names of Mr. Baigent and Mr. Harkness to the committee. He was very glad to see this motion, and only regretted that it had been so long delayed. One objection initiated by the mover of this motion was, whether the railway would pay or not. But that was not the question. The real question, he consir dered, was, Would it assist in opening up the country and increasing the population? That was what would help to make a railroad pay. We wanted a winter and summer road, and not mud tracks. Various elaborate reports had been furnished to the Council, and in these reports the view of the case taken was, as to coal, whether it would pay or not, and whether a ton of coal at 17s. 9d. was cheaper than a ton at 6s. Bd. The true question, however, wa3 whether the land in the country was to be opened up or not; and there was no doubt that the railway was the best means of opening up the country. Mr. Kingdon seconded the motion. Mr. Saundebs said that any person who looked fairly at the composition of this committee would see that it was evenly balanced as it at present stood, and the only result of adding to it two gentlemen who had publicly and strongly declared themselves in favor of a railway would be to lessen public confidence in any report the committee might produce, and it would not in the end further the object of the gentleman making the mption. That was all he would offer as objection. The amendment was agreed to. Mr. Thompson moved that Mr. Saunders and Mr. Simmonda be added to the committee. Dr. Monbo stated that according to a rule of the Council, no select committee could exceed ten ; already there were nine members, and therefore only one could be added. Mr. Pabkeb then moved that the committee shall consist of seven members to be elected by ballot —a motion which the Speaker said it was quite competent for any member to make. Mr. Elliott said he regretted the matter had not: been brought before the Council earlier. He did not expect the Provincial Solicitor would have entered on the merits of the case, but as ho had done so he felt bound to reply. He considered that the question was altogether viewed from a wrong point. The; y®om *H *ta»^ Mktft Yfauty 4 WttW»J }fll

What traffic was to be expected ? and, What population Avould be found to grow and supply produce ? •That is not the question at all. The fact was the province was simply a large- estate, and it was-per-' fectly valueless at present. It was true it. might: be sold, but it wbul<l in thatcase gam to the 1 lauds of speculators who would hold-it, and charge higher to the settler that wished to occupy the land. We had to look to the character of the'country. At present "it was shut up and inaccessible for want of good railroads. He objected to the construction, of dray roads in preference to railways, and instanced an expensive" drayroad constructed at Wellington up the valley of the Wairarapa to 6pen iip a large district. Several townships were laid out and some people settled there —but it ended as might have been expected. There was no population in the district, no people to supply with produce,- and the distance by road froni town was too great. There just remain now a' few "small settlers', and all they grow beyond their own wants they could find no market, for; and this would be the case if a dray road were made in this proVkfce.- We hud the evidence of Mr. Blackett, a man who -was qiute-coinpetent to express an opinion *on the subject, that there is land of excellent quality in the interior Lof the country. Now it "was not right to attempt to sell land in the manner that had been in- practice in | this and other provinces, namely to let people buy with the expectation of roads being made afterwards. The true way to do was to make a trunk line of road first,' with branch lines where necessary, and then sell the land, laying an additional price on the land for the increase in value by the formation of roads. This would bring a class of purchasers who would settle on the lands; and lie felt quite confident many such settlers would come here. In Otago,' for instance, a large number of persons were looking to Nelson, as the province to which they desired to come and settle, and he (Mr. Elliott) received letters by almost every mail, from numerous persons who were not speaking merely for themselves, but for many others who were looking to Nelson with a view to settling in it. We must look to the borrowing of money as borrowing for an estate. Mr. Elliott then referred to the condition of the land revenue, asserting that after the present year there must be a falling off in that fund. (Hear, hear, from Mr Saunders). During, the last five yeara the greater portion of the revenue had been produced by the Anmri land sales, and he was surprised that the Government, seeing that the goose which had laid so many golden eggs was now in a very frail condition, did not take steps to meet the difficulty. The total land sales of the province for 5i years down to January last amounted to £210,000 ; and of this sum £180,600 was furnished by-the pastoral district of the Amuri. All the other land sales iv the province yielded only £29,000. The land sales last year produced £75,000: true it was not all cash but partly scrip. The estimated revenue for next year was £30,000 and he was of opinion that was; an excessive estimate. (Hear, hear, from Mr. Saunders.) The land revenue was falling away and without land sales there would be no revenue at all. Looking to the estimates he found that upwards of £6000 was paid for keeping up the G-overnment of the province. He could not imagine how Government, with this fact before them and with the certainty of a most serious crisis overtaking the province should take no measures, or at any rate very feeble ones, for meeting the difficulty. He (Mr. Elliott) was sanguine in his expectations that some thing would turn up and we would get a revenue somehow from the gold-field or otherwise. As men of business and as trustees for the public, the .Council must look after the affairs of the province. It was their duty in public affairs as in private to be on the safe side, and unless something were done to provide for. the province it was as clear as two and two made four that the revenue would fall away and the province rapidly go back. It was therefore necessary while we had the ball in our hands to make a proper use of it. If we delayed much longer we should not be in such a position to borrow money as we were now and no time was therefore to be lost. Mr. Thompson in reply to Mr. Pollock reminded that gentleman that it was in the power of some of the members who claimed to be go a-head people, to make a motion for a railway. The lion, gentleman had censured the Government for not doing so sooner, but he had yet to learn that Government enjoyed a monopoly of initiating measures of this kind. (Hear, hear); He (Mr. T.) was favorable to have the matter fully discussed here. After some little conversation, in the course of which Mr. Elliott expressed regret that Mr. Pollock had proposed the additional members, as he was content with the Committee, as it stood, Dr. Monro expressed surprise at the course Government had taken in this matter, and he proceeded to controvert the statement of Mr. Thompson that initiation of such measures did hot necessarily come from Government. If the lion, gentleman would turn to the speech of the head of the Executive, he would find it stated as follows:— "In contemplation of the possibility of large works, including a railway of narrow guage, suited for locomotive, being undertaken on this side [of the province] in preference to the smaller ones proposed at the Sutler, I have. already written to ask the General Government to sanction an increase of the amount to be raised by loan." The expectation therefore of the public from these words was not only that money was to be borrowed, but that it would be also appropriated. Now it appeared either that the Executive did not think proper that the works should proceed, or it wished to abdicate its duty, and delegate it to the the Council. It would have been much more manly if it had come forward and stated that it did not think it expedient to carry out the work. After some further observation in a similar strain of censure on the Government for its alleged "abdications of its functions," Dr. Monro went on to say that on all main questions, or policy, Government should take the initiative, and then on the subject of railways, he said he should likely be found voting differently on this question from the friends he had hitherto gone with. He considered that railways were best suited for districts of the country where public roads were not easily formed, and he referred to the Dun Mountain line, as an instance of a successful railway. As to laying down a railway in a settled district where n good road already existed, ho did not see any use for that at all. But where the road was difficult that was the place for a railway. He agreed with Mr. Elliott's remarks as to the financial condition of the province. • After a few words from Mr. Goodman, Mr. Saunders replied to the remarks of Dr. Monro, stating that since the Superintendent wrote his speech it was well known that a report had reached the Government and the Council, which entirely altered the position of affairs. All those who had brought forward the railway movement based their support of that movement on the inexhaustible supply of coal that could be brought into the port of Nelson. But Mr. Burnett's report very clearly showed that the state of the country and the coal in the interior was very different from the expectations. The honorable gentleman also questioned the propriety of Dr. Monro's frequent reference to the Dun Mountain line as a successful railway. He (Mr. S.) thought it was a remarkable instance of entire want of success. The amendment was then adopted, and the committee was appointed by ballot, and by arrangement the members selected were the same as on the original motion. FREE PASSAGES FOR FEMALE EMIGRANTS. Mr. M'Rae moved That this council is of opinion that female domestic servants of good character, emigrating to this province, should have free passages provided for them by the Immigration Commissioners,—remarking that every encouragement ought to be given to induce female emigrants of good character to come out to this province in order to balance the male population. Mr. Saunders stated that it was the wish and intention of the Government and the Emigration Commissioners to go further than, the resolution proposed. They did not intend to restrict the free passages to domestic servants but to. include other females who might come out under guardianship of relations or friends. [Hear, hear.) The Bard of Avon was to bring out about eighty persons of this class, and among them wore eight or,nine sent out by an English Society. The expense of these the Government intended to refund to the Society, and the Government will encourage by free passages all who come out under proper arrangements. [Hear, hear.) NATIVE RESERVES. Mr, Wawubon wore* tfw •ppoifttawnt of t

committee to take into oouskktation the inure I lieiiencial investment of'theprocWd* of the Native Reserves.; , ; :" '. ■■['~'.:, i. : ."', . '.'"." .'■'■. '"' . > Agreed to. . ..'',',,'-•■'•'•■•."-*'• .■:''""■■:'■ ■''■"'■' '■'•-'■ •■•<-■■' :.'■■-''■ . QAS\ ■. '...'■ ■..•„'.. ' . Mr,.lJ-AH~K^E9s moved That in the opinion of this caiinbil^ tlie Provincial. Government should grant an exclusive right for twenty-one years to any company .who will undertake to supply the city of ,Nvlson with gas.—The motion Was not' seconded, andfeii to the ground; . ' The Scab Bill was read a third time and passed., The report of tlio committee on Mr. Luwthwaite's petition was adopted. The other orders were disposed of and- the council uujourned.