THE MOKAU LANDS.

Stratford Evening Post, Volume XXIX, Issue 143, 9 August 1911, Page 6

THE MOKAU LANDS.

STATEMENT BY ACTIN'CPREMIER.

(Per Press Association.) Wellington, August S.

In the House of Representatives this afternoon Sir James Carroll made a statement about the Mohan lands. In reply to .Mr. Massey, lie said the matter was first brought under the Covornment’s notice by a letter dated September 26, 190 S, from the solicitor for Mr. Herman Lewis, tiie registered owner of the leases, formerly held by Mr. Jones. I lie letter stated tiie lessee was willing to join with the native owners in any scheme which would facilitate the immediate settlement of tiie block, and it was suggested that' a native commission, consisting of Sir 11 onert Stout and the Hon. Mr. Ngata, should enquire into the mattoy with a view of the area being disposed of under the Native Lands Settlement Act, 1907. It was also suggested that Hie respective valus of the interests of natives and lessees bo determined by an in dependent tribunal. Just tlien Mr Jones petitioned Parliament, and Mr Lewis’ application was hung up in the hope that he and Mr Jones would arrive at a settlement. In February, 1909, Sir liobert Stout and Judge J. Palmer dealt with the matter, and found there were four subdivisions of the

block, containing 53,090 acres, leased to Mr Jones, and the lease contained a clause requiring the expenditure o! £3009 yearly in development work. It appeared, however, that Mr Jones,obtained from some of tiie lessors of the

main block a deed purporting to release him from this expenditure. The commission decided there wore serious doubts regarding the validity of the leases, ana reported against Mr Jones’ proposal for disposing of the lands. Consequently a caveat was directed to be lodged against dealings

■\vitli Luis property, and was not removed until tlio Registrar-General satisfied himself it was impossible in law to support the caveat. Then the Government was approached liy the solicitors for the natives, and lor Air Jones and Mr Lewis, with a view to settlement. The Government thought tho best way was to purchase the natives’ interest,, but a careful valuation resulted in a report that the land was only worth £30,000 at the most, and so the Government decided it could not purchase. The law did not permit the Government compulsorily taking natives’ interests, but the hatters’ representatives said they were willing to sell their ’interests to the Government for £22,600, whereas the Government officers computed these to- bo worth Only £11,300, and the lessees’ interests worth £20,700, and if it did purchase tho Government would either have had to admit the - leases as good or enter into costly litigation and face the claim by the lessees for loss of occupation rights and right to work coal on the property lor a period of nearly thirty years. The natives also threatened claims against the Land Transfer Assurance if and. Mr C. T*. Skerrett, K.C., on behalf of the natives, wrote risking authorisation of the acquisition oy Mr if. Lewis. Ho said Mr Jones’ interest had become vested in Mr Lewis, and the latter’s leasehold interests were mortgaged to the I,'Tow-i ers estate to secure tne sum of £14,-! 000 and interest and subsequent mortgages to Dalziell for £IOOO and -McCarthy for £25,000. Thus the amounts owing totalled £40,000. The letter further stated that if the registration ,pf, Mr Jones’ leases-, gave, him an indefeasible title, the natives would claim a large sum against the insurance fund for improper registration. Mr- Skerrett also stated.that, after negotiations between himself and Mr Dalzicli, representing Lewis, ho thought an arrangement could be made for the natives to sell their interests for £25,000, to be paid in cash within three months, making it conditional that Mr Lewis should within tnroe years subdivide and sell the land irl areas of not less than that prescribed by section 12 of the Nat lye Land Act! Mr Skerrett concluded by stating that Mr Lewis and his mortgages agreed that tne proceeds of tnc sale of tho block bo field by them, subject to any claim or right thereto established by Mr Jones in a court of law or equity. Sir James Jarred i\.;thcr ct.-l.’d that Cabinet, o. Dcba. i, TJIO, - decided to agree to Mr Skor-Ri’s proposal, and issued an ludor-in-v. oun il, ueing inllueuccU la lace Liao i.iis was vuo spawdiost ..-A„ou c... rg, closer settlement of tlio block. Everything done suba.'qiK :ly was y'yr.ly departmental. Hcgaiwing Mr uomiS claims, the Government, as no doubt Mr'’Jones’ solicitors would admit, did. all in its power,; to obtain from him an interest in this land, but wore finally driven to the conclusion that he had no claim. The position to-day was that the title of the block was vested in the chairman of the Maori Land Board. It was being surveyed and roaded, and must bo sold in areas equivalent to and not exceeding 4.00 acres of first-class land, within three years. The Government had four courses open. The first was to do nothing in the matter, Lie second was to purchase the land, tlio third to purchase the interest of the natives ami take compulsorily the interest of the -lessee, and the fourth to permit the natives and the lessee to come to an arrangement under which the claims against the assurance fund would disa op ear and the settlement of the block lie secured. The Government did not adopt tho first course, being assured the fund would probably have bad to pay a considerable sum to cither the natives or the lessee. Second, because the valuation was £IB,QUO less than tlio natives wanted. Third, because it would have involved costly litigation, and the Government would have had to meet a large sum for lessees’ interests in coal rights. By adopting the fourth course the Government has obtained the immediate settlement of tho block in small areas vithont risk of a penny to tlio State, .nnl has saved the assurance fund from serious attack. Sir James Carroll concluded bv expressing the opinion that the statement would probably give sufficient information to enable the Government's part in the matter to l o understood, and that the Government would ho glad to assist ;n evciy aay by giving the translation tlie fullest publicity. • Sir Jantes Carroll moved that the statement be referred to tne 6alive Affairs Committee :o con slier and report. Mr. Massey asked that Lie itporfc be referred to ibuimdtoc ether than the Native Affairs Comm;tire. Such a committee was not a fair cue to refer the, matter ty as it "as composed of'thirteen members, ten of whom wqre Govoriimnit sijpmtns. Sir James Carroll - ill be w shed to meet Miv-Miiksoy >n my ay i.c timid The Native- Affairs Cornin'.tree mis quite competent Mj coal witai tho matter.

Mr. Massey asked that a committee consisting of Messrs. Allen, Heines, Herd man, Okey, Jennings, Millar, McDonald, Ngata, Hogg, and himself, deal with the matter.

Sir Janies failed to see the neces-

itv for a soceial committee

Mr. Massey said that not a single important statement which he had made in connection with the Mokiiu lauds had been challenged in the statement Sir James Carroll had read Wh-A the Ciown should have done was to have set up a Compensation Court, as provided by the Native Lauds Act, by which tno Court could have fixed the amount paid to the owners of leasehold interests. Ho would, like to know how many native owners were present when the meeting of assembled owners took place. The amount paid to Mr. Hermann Lewis when he sold the land to tno syndicate should come out ::f the Mohan Company, who did not intend selling the land in the ordinary way to intending ..settlers. They intended reserving the'mineral rights. Tie was not satisfied with the tribunal to which it was proposed to refer the mattei to. He moved as an amendment that the special committee named by him lie set up to consider and report on the statement. Mr. Jennings pointed out that all tiie committee bad to do was to consider the statement and report to the House.

Mr. Luke supported the 1 amendment. The country was entitled to all the information obtainable concerning the deal. Mr Fisher thought the matter should go before some tribuu il outside the House. Ho asked Sir .James if he did not think the onto rue ot the enquiry would be the most important factor in the forthcoming t lection.

tiie Hon. Mr. Ngata said the only charge really was that the interests of native owners had not been safeguarded. The .objects of the committee which went into the matter v onld bo to elicit facts brought up r.ndci the charges made by Mr. .Massey. The Native Affairs Commit tee would bring the facts out just as well as any other committee. Mr. Wright stated that the L'overnmont could have purchased the litclioM of the w hole 53,000 odd a; ies of Mohan land from the natives for £15,000, but they Jet, the chance slip through their fingers. He supported the special committee.

Man Lang said the Government was on its trial in tho matter. They bad allowed private people to get hold oi the land instead of settling it themselves.

After further discussion tho mo I ion was carried by 3c! to 26.

Sir James Carroll stated be had given all information in possession of the Government in regard to tlio case. A plain, pure exposition of facts had been given, and ho was sure it would prove satisfactory to tlio people of tlio country.

Tho House adjourned at 5.30 p.m