EDUCATION

Southland Times, Issue 20897, 5 October 1929, Page 8

EDUCATION

VOTE ON ESTIMATES

TEACHERS’ SALARIES DEBATED

CONVEYANCE OF CHILDREN TO SCHOOL

(From Our Parlimentary Reporter.) Wellington, October 4.

The estimates for the Education Department were dealt with in Committee of Supply in the House of Representatives today. Mr J. A. Nash opened the debate by moving an amendment bearing on the question of headmasters’ salaries.

Mr Nash said that he wanted to bring up the question of teachers’ salaries. The teachers had asked for increases on many occasions and they had frequently been promised that something would be done. The salaries of junior teachers had been increased by over 100 per cent., but headmasters had not received a rise sufficient to recompense them for their duties. He moved an amendment that the total vote should be reduced by £lO. Mr H. T. Armstrong said that all teachers’ salaries should be increased. Why should they increase the pay of the highest paid teachers and not that of assistants, he asked.

A Reform member: Why don’t you move an amendment ‘I

Mr Armstrong: It may come to that, but when the Minister rises to reply he may show that there is no need for an amendment.

Continuing, Mr Armstrong began to discuss the building of schools. The chairman, Mr S. G. Smith: There is no vote for building on the estimates.

A member: Move an amendment. Mr Armstrong: There is a vote for alterations and additions.

Mr R. McKeen said that the salary question had been debated fairly freely of late and was regarded as a matter of grave urgency by the Minister of Education, but it was a matter of finance. That being the case, he could not arouse much enthusiasm about the amendment. (Reform laughter.) Continuing, Mr McKeen compared the salaries of the principals of secondary schools and the headmasters in primary schools and said that, there certainly was need for an adjustment. Was the secondary education more important than the primary, he asked. Mr R. A. Wright said that the scheme for junior high schools had not yet been made public. There,was a complaint about buildings being held up, but if they were going to adopt the junior high schools’ system they would not need those buildings. He did not think that districts should be deprived of the facilities while the matter was being considered and he suggested that the old building scheme should go on until the new system was definitely decided. Continuing, Mr Wright asked the Minister if he could say how the new syllabus was working and if the latitude given to teachers under it was not liable to lead to the introduction of undesirable books in schools.

Mr W. J. Jordan said that he wanted to ask the Minister if the school journal was to be supplied to all primary school children free of charge and for information regarding the Government’s policy regarding the Jubilee Institute for the Blind. The education of the blind, he said, was left to a private institution and he could not understand why that should be so. He considered that blind children should receive just as much, if not more, consideration as other children. If the Government could not take over the institute it might at least see its way clear to extend superannuation to teachers in the institute. Mr A. M. Samuel said that the salaries of all teachers should be considered and Mr P. Fraser said that there was a definite promise of consideration of 'salaries ap soon as finance permitted and therefore an amendment was the forcing of an open door. The Government had brought down taxing proposals to obtain the finance required and if the Reform Party would support the Government in those proposals, they would carry out their promises and there would be no need for an amendment. Minister in Reply. The Hon. H. Atmore said it was true the matter had been before the various Ministers for a great many years. Sir James Parr when he was Minister had stated that he sympathized with teachers owing to the very obvious disparity in the payment made for different positions. Mr Atmore said he stood by the answers he gave to deputations at the beginning of the year and again in August. The position was defenceless, but it was entirely a question of finance. Mr A. W. Hall said there was an absurd anomaly in respect to the salaries of headmasters who should be put more on a level with secondary school teachers. Advice to Mr Nash. Mr J. McCombs said that if he was not careful Mr Nash would be rendering a grave disservice to the teachers who had already been told that they would receivu consideration. If. the amendment were defeated it would mean that the House would be instructing the Government not to increase the salaries of teachers. In his anxiety to score against the Government Mr Nash, might inadvertently score one against the teachers. The motion was an ill-advised and ill-considered one.

Mr J. S. Fletcher said that those who supported the amendment were no more sympathetic towards headmasters than those who said they would not vote for it. Personally he would vote against it because first of all the money had to be found. Mr Nash: What about the unemployed? You don’t worry about that!

Mr Fletcher: I did. The amendment is not moved in a spirit of sincerity. It is a bit of window dressing on the part of the member for Palmerston.

Mr F. W. Langstone said that when increased salaries were being considered, it was necessary to take into consideration the ability of the country to pay the increases. He could not get white hot over the plight of headmasters, but he agreed there was need for some adjustment of salaries, particularly lower down. The teachers might be able to agree on a re-ad-justment which would not materially increase the salary bill. Mr H. M. Campbell said that for a long time the salaries of headmasters had not been on a fair basis. He asked if the Minister could give some assurance as to what would be done. The Opposition had no desire to harass the Government in any way, but it was anxious to see that some thing was done.

Mr W. L. Martin said he was not very enthusiastic about the amendment although he agreed there should be a review of teachers' salaries generally. Mr. T. Henare said that he had brought up the question of dental attendance to children in back-block native schools again and again. The chairman, Mr. S. G. Smith: That comes under the Health Department.

Mr. Henare said that he wanted the Minister to consider giving Maoris an opportunity to enter Massey College. Mr. A. Harris referred to superannuation subsidies and asked if an opportunity could be given to non-subscribers to the superannuation fund to come in if they paid back subscriptions. Mr. F. Langstone spoke of children riding to school and asked if the Department would make an allowance for the horse used. Allowances were made for vehicles, but the present state of traffic on the road made vehicles unsafe. Grade 0 Schools. Referring to Grade 0 schools, Mr. Langstone said that it had been the policy of the

Department to ask parents to supply the school building and part of the teachers’ salaries. -He asked the Minister to give special attention to such schools for, he said, the backblock children had as much right to free education as had tjje town children.

Referring again to headmasters’ salaries, Mr. Nash said that there was no inducement for young people to enter the teaching profession. It had been interesting to hear the remarks from the Labour benches. It was the first time that he had ever heard Labour members ask the country to wait until money was available before doing something for the workers. Mr. W. E. Parry: It is the first we have heard from you too. Mr. Nash: If the hon. gentleman will look up Hansard he will see what I have had to say about the matter. Continuing Mr. Nash said that the question had been raised by the member for Grey Lynn, as to,where the money was to come from. Coming from where it did that was remarkable.

The chairman: The hon. gentleman is not in order.

Mr. H. E. Holland (Labour) said that the member for Palmerston North could not make such statements unchallenged. The Labour Party had passed resolution after resolution regarding teachers’ salaries, but the hon. member’s party had never supported them. Mr. Nash: Vote with us and we will support them now.

Mr. Holland: You will see how J will vote when the division bells ring.

Transport of Children

Continuing, Mr. Holland touched on the transport of school children and free books. Mr. A. E. Ansell referred to an item of £55,000 for the conveyance of children by road to school. In many cases there was still a great deal of hardship on- the part of parents and in some cases upon bus drivers who were carrying the children. Mr. H. S. Kyle said that there was an increase in the estimated cost for conveying children to school of about £13,000 and this was mainly due to the petrol tax. He suggested that the Minister should carry out his intentions regarding the agricultural bias by providing ponies for children. At the present tithe they were encouraging motor cars and were weaning children away from the land. The use of ponies would be cheaper. The Hon. T. M. Wilford: What about using Fireboy? Mr Kyle: Yes, he would do for a start, but something slower would be better.

Mr T. W. McDonald said that he hoped the Minister would encourage those people who were willing and able to help education in New Zealand. He knew of one instance where £l5O was offered for building of the Defence Department and he hoped the Minister would accept such offers and see that the money was forthcoming to subsidize them. He wished to mention dental clinics. The chairman: That comes under the Health Department.

Mr McDonald: I am glad to hear that, (Laughter.)

Shakespearean Company Grant.

Mr F. Waite said that he had heard that a grant had been made out of travelling allowances to a Shakespearean company, and he wanted to know if this was correct.

Mr W. J. Jordan said that if a grant had not been made, he thought one should be made for the company had done great service to education by giving concessions to school children throughout New Zealand. (Hear, hear.) The Minister said that a grant of £B5O had been made to the Allan Wilkie Shakespearean Company by Cabinet. (Hear, hear.) Mr A. Harris: Did they give special prices for children ? The Minister: Yes, for school children. The inducements for young people to enter the teaching profession were better than in any other profession, the Minister continued, for young teachers were paid during their training and could rise to £240 per annum in four years after leaving college. The question of the conveyance of school children would be sympathetically considered. With regard to the use of ponies, these were used by children in many parts of New Zealand. The entrance of Maoris into Massey College had to be preceded by one year in a dairy factory and that should not be a bar. Mr H. R. Jenkins said that he was of the opinion that teachers were very well paid. They only worked five hours a day and five days a week. Mr Holland (Labour): You don’t mean to say that their work finishes when the schools close, do you ? Mr Samuel: He doesn’t know what he is talking about.

Mr Jenkins: Some lady teachers get £7 a week and stay at the best hotels when they are travelling. A member: Why shouldn’t they? Mr Jenkins: If they are to get a rise other members of the civil service should get it also. The Rt. Hon. J. G. Coates said that there was too much discrepancy between the salaries of headmasters and the principals of colleges.

Mr Holland (Labour): Why didn’t you put that right when you were in office ? Mr Coates: We always said we would attend to it when funds were available and we want the Minister to keep that in view. Educational Progress. Dealing with the education system, Mr Coates said that it might be well to bring in men from other countries to check up on our educational progress. They were all concerned about the educational costs, but at the same time thej’ should endeavour to get the best for the children of the country.

Mr Holland (Labour) said that he was in agreement with the Leader of the Opposition in the matter of anomalies in salaries. He urged that the whole position should be reviewed for, he said, most certainly teachers had a case. When it came to finding money that was a matter for the Ministers of Education and Finance.

Mr A. Hamilton also mentioned ponies for children, and said that there was a good deal in the idea.

A United member: What about donkeys? The idea of keeping children in touch and sympathy with animals was a good one, said Mr Hamilton, and worthy of the Minister's consideration.

Referring to the transfer of teachers to England, Mr Hamilton said he considered the system an excellent one, and hoped more would be done in that direction. He brought the question of a teacher’s residence at Athol and Thornbury under the notice of the Minister, and also mentioned the conveyance of children from the soldiers’ settlement at Strathvale to Otautau. He was a bit doubtful about the wisdom of spending over £BOO on subsidizing a travelling company because the money could be used advantageously in backblock schools and country children did not get the benefit of Shakespearean plays. Mr Fraser (Labour) said that he was in favour of the subsidy and he thought the disabilities of country children should be reduced by the introduction of radio and gramophones to schools. He was in favour of increases in salaries without the necessity of teachers moving to other schools to gain promotion. The Minister, in replying to the member for Wallace, said that Great Britain only exchanged six teachers a year and naturally there was a number on the waiting list.

The amendment was lost on the voices and the sum was granted.