THE CHINESE REVOLUTION

Otago Witness, Issue 3018, 17 January 1912, Page 46

THE CHINESE REVOLUTION

AN INTERVIEW WITH THE REPUBLICAN GENERAL. The China Press, of November 28, gives prominence to an interview by Mr Edwm J. Dingle, a journalist representing it, with Li Yuan Hun- (General of the Republican Army), in which the latter frankly explained his" conception of the revolution end his personal views respecting the outcome of the present movement in the future history of China. We quote as follows from (tlie interview: — A LEADER OF MEN. General Li is undoubtedly a handsome Chinese gentleman. About sft 3on or Mt 4in, queueless, with black hair, with eyes somewhat ol«M« and which at times shone with fire, and a chin that immediately gave evidence of an infinite determination. Were it not lor his military dress, he might rcaduy to taken for a prosperous Chinese merchantHe L, keen, a leader .of men, who does not hesitate a moment. «■„,„ So utterly unlike the ordinary Chinese official, wfto leaves the vital poinfta of an interview until he rises to take hie leave, General Li, with eyes beaming and slightly raising his hand in his enthusiasm, exclaimed: — , - ~ 1Q "Yes, now we have 16 out of the 18 provinces, and our Republican party is formidable. We have gathered under our 6*W flag many more province.? in much nhorter time than we had honed for, an evidence that China waa waiting for the step to be taken to overthrow the M*nCn "why, General Li, did the revolution break out? Can you tell mo briefly the specific reason you assign fcr the outbreak to have taken place so suddenly.' REVOLUTION EXPECTED. He smiled slightly as he looked me straightforwardly in the eyes. Well, tor years throughout our Empire there had Wn the feeling that the Manchus would .never give us Chinese any justice. -t ne - v were pressing us down and a-ttougn «ne revolution took place sooner than anticipated, all Chinese knew that it was coming sooner or later. I personally had formulated no great scheme to take the lead—as a matter of fact, although I knew all that was going on in the Hupeh Model Army, I had no intention of taking the lead or of occupying the position in which you nnd me to-day. The time planned for the revolution would probably have been later. China was waiting for the man to rise up •who would strike. None of the lead n of the revolution, of cur now republic, were anxious that there thould bo great s'aughter—the onlv wish was that the Manchu rule should be abolished for ever, and since I have been the leader of the republic I have done my best that as little loss of life as possible might be incurred. " Are you quite sure that the revolution will be permanentiv successful—that all C'una will become loyal to the Republican "Loyal?" exclaimed his Excellency with the joviality of a boy, and then his face was o'oser knit again. " There is no doubt .whatever. We have 16 provinces, with the armies of all those provinces: we have the Chinese navv—part at Hankow, part at .Nanking, sen* there yesterday to aid in the attack, and part at Shanghai. We control the Yangtsze." But the General dismissed the question of loyalty to the new flag as not being worthy of notice, adding that it was merely a matter of time for China to bo knit together with a groat overpoweringly strong patriotism which .would have no equal in the Eastern or the Western world. Then he continued: "My (personal desire would ba to see very province a free province, with its own assembly-, but controlled by one great national governmental body. Wo shall take our pattern from the United States of America, having a president to control our provincial assemblies—just like America" he added curt'.y. THE TIME OF ELECTIONS. "How often would you elect a president? In China, unopened as it is. with no communication, do you not think it would bo more difficult to organise elections and matters of a national character than it is in the States?" " Evory four, five, six—or even 10 years. Our president, if we got the right man, might be in office for 10 years for that matter. At all events, this is my personal opinion, but this, with many other matters, would como ui> for decision at the first assembly, and it is my desire not unduly to influence that body." " Who do you think you would ask to become the President—Yuan Shih K'ai perhaps?" I asked. "Ah, no," came the quick rejoinder. "We must push out the Manchus. Yuan Shin K'ai will not, I believe, become our President." His Excellency stopped talking at this point, and I waited in vain to hear more about Yuan. After a moment I suggested, " But Yuan Shih .K'ai is one of your great friend?, is ho not?" " No, I do not call Yuan Shih K'ai a friend. He is known to me personally, but I do not know much about hi.m or cf the ambition ho now has with China. You tee, he will not listen to me." " True, but the foreign newspapers aire saying that Yuan Shih K'ai, because he is your personal friend, will boconio the first President."

" Are they—T did not know. Well, perhaps Yuan Shih K'ai would ri.so very high in the Republican party, but he lms shown his determination merely to sit on the. fence waiting for the result," and General Li held up his hands and rocked tc and fro in his chair to make his meaning clear. ADMIRAL SAII HIS FRIEND. " Who are your political associates at this tirr.e?" His Excellency, at first not seeming to understand my meaning, eaid t.hat he had none, but afterwards toid ma that his great friend was Admiral Sah. The gubsequent references which ho marie to the Admiral wero touching. "lie is my teacher," lie affectionately exclaimed, " lie j & now gotta to Shanghai, but after the fighting is over lie wiil come u. advise the Republic on naval matters. Admiral Sah is a good man, his heart is very ■warm." In further conversation General Li declared that they had now the efcronpe't men in the country, and the men who had jiOb turned were hardly worth having. He paid eulogistic references to the statesmanship of Wu Ting Fang, several of the Ministers of the eld Government, whom

bo hoped to Tctain in office, and to Hwang Hsuin, in whom ho said ho had the greatest confidence. *• Dr Sun Yat Sen is due to come to Wu-char.a, I believe?'' A little exohuuition was necessary at this point to let the Genera! know the reformer of whom I was speaking. His Excellency said he did not know either Sun Yat Sen or Kang Yu Wei, although ho had heard a good deal about both of them. There had been no communication received by him from either of the.e members of the New China party, a statement verified by ttie close attention with which ho listened to the information bearing upon the matter that I waa able to give to him. He was willing, he said, for all Chinese who felt that they cc-uid uplift their country now to come forward into tho Republican party But when it vvas mentioned that Dr Sun Yat Sen waa generally looked upon a.? one ot the foremost Chinese reformers, and one who had done more for the New China party than perhaps anyone, cut of China, his Excellency optimistically declared, with the merriment of one who is winning u great race, that China had many able men, but that they hfld all been afraid to break through the antideluvianiscn of the Old China. Now the future was never brighter. China was being born again, the people were now to become recognised as the people of liberty, and it would bo easy for the good men to come to the fore. " I wish that every Chinese of ability should come to me, and I should like these two men also to come to me, but I authorise you to say that neither of them Lne any authority at present frcra our i; arty

' ' TO RETAIN DIPLOMATS Continuing, tho General 6aid his idea was that China's foreign representatives should be retained, and that in no way was he desirous of altering the representation anywhere, in China or out of it, if officials wore willing to serve—granted, of course, that their retention in office gave satiefacticm and they were returned by public vote. " W 7 e wish to retain all who will work conscientiously for China's welfare, ro that there sihaJl be no disruption of trade and commence, or China's diplomatic connections ail over the world. Roughly, the scheme that I should favour would be: —

•' (1) Expulsion of the Manchus outeide the Groat Wali to Mongolia (excepting those who arc willing to join the Republican party) ; " (2) Establishment of a republic on linos after the style of America, with exclusive government* for each State, and one great National Assembly. " With these points decided, wo shall be able to call together all papular refoimcrs from all the provinces and fosrwi our Government. But this will be lb© time that I shall resign." At this juncture of the conversation the General looked wistfully out of the window, epeaking almost to himself. By then, he said, he 6houid have accomplished his part far the winning of China back into the hands oi her own people, and he would throw the cloak of control on the other shoulders. His quiet, unostentatious manner as he proceeded humbly to compare his own powers with other men in China siiowed a spirit of true greatness. Hero was the hero of China, the man above, all men who had guided her publio lifo into eafe channels and upon whom the eyes of tiic diplomatic, social and political world were riveted—and ho was talking of giving way to hotter men. Presently, as if coining out of a reverie, he turned to wards me again, smiling heartily as I suggrcfted that that will probably not be allowed. But he was determined. "" No, there can be no place for mo—l am a military man, but. China has many better administrators. We have plenty of men," and then he added, as an afterthought, " Of course, if tb?y want me they can always have me." and he smacked the table as if lie had joked unconsciously

And although I tried to impress upon his Excellency the fact that had there- been no General Li there would probably have been no such success as is now attending the revolution, he would have none of it. lie preferred to wander 0:1 in confidential tones, belling me that his pcirsooa! wishes were not to be taken into account at all. What he personally was anxious to do was to control tlw initial stapes of winning over the country: then, his p-irt was the planning of the defences and the organisation of the military; after that, whatever the new Government wished him to do, he would endeavour faithfully to carrv out rot for his own sake, but for the sake of the country of which he was proud and which he loved. FAVOURS A REPUBLIC:.

lie did net seem inclined to <ntcr the conversation much about the monarchial Style of government which some declare would be more favourable to China as a country which had always looked to one head, the Emperor. a.s the Son of Heaven. His Excellency, referring to England and comparing that country with tho United States, said that the style of the monarchial government cf England was beat for her people, but he did not bc-Hevo it to be the best for the Chinese—and now that China was breaking away from all old sys ioir.s and customs, he thought the republican control better suited to China's needs. In tho course of convewoatiop, I attempted to raise several questions which would probably go against the establishment of a republic when the- Senate met, but General Li did not pursue the conversation, and seemed disinclined to talk until I mentioned the religion of the country, quoting the annual sacrifice at the Temple of Heaven —how would that be carried out? Then again bis eyes shone. He conic cloeer to me, raised his hand a little as if to c nvince me in what he was going to say, and spoke slowly: '"All sacrifices will probably "be stopped but. the religion of the people will be Confucianism." " But ConfueiamVm is not a religion. Do yon not think. General Li. that Christianity will become more popular among the people as the country is opened up more?'' '" Oli. yes. missionaries are our friends. Jesus is 'better than Confucius, and I am strongly in favour cf more missionaries coining to China 10 teach Christianity and going into interior provinces. We shall do all we can to assist missionaries, and the more missionaries we get to come to China the greater will the republican Government he pleased." The G< rural then went on in very simple language to say that be was personally very pleased with all the labours of missionaries, and that. China would not be today were it not for the missionaries, who had gone into out-of-the-way places and opened up the country. FOREIGNERS ARE NEEDED. "But as a matter oJ fact, we feci that

we want as many foreigners to come to China as possible. Tlie opening up of the country can only properly bo accomplished by the ill itcd efforts of Chinese, and foreigner*, and in this new republic wc realise that it is only by mingling more freely with the other nations of th-3 world that "China will have hoi- rcFomces developed. Of our military and navy, our defence, our schools and edilcgos, I have no fear, but one of the most important items in our republican programme is that which will cilabo us to develop our wealth."

" Weil, will you be in favour of granting concessions to foreign syndicates for the development of mines and so on?'' " I do not think so. It-, is impossible for mo to say what will bo done, but my personal wish would bo to freely combine foreign capital with Chinese capital and labour." But the General, turning abruptly towards a staff officer who brought him a message from Shanghai, announced. " But we &ha.U have foreign advisers, und alt taich matters as this would naturally be decidcil later. And he added forcefully, " We must consolidate the whole of China —that is the main thing." "You spoke of foreign loans just now. There will bo need for foreign loans now more than ever?'' "Yes, we shall need more foreign money and more foreigners in the employ of our Republican Government, but my party is convinced that there will be no difficulty in getting all the assistance, financial and otherwise, from the Powers. Already, America has telegraphed her good wishes, and the time will come when the two greatest republics in the world wili be on the most friendly footing—probably China will dn-ift more towards America and learn more from her than from anv other country." "' As regards business, do you think tihat Hankow will benefit in trade from the revolution?"

For a moment the General thought, again putting his thumb and finger to his chin, lie hesitated briefly, thon declared straight out that he thought Hankow would become perhaps the biggest city in Asia. " Before we decide about the development of Hankow and the djevelcp.nienfc of trade, we shall have to consult. Wo must forge ahead in commerce and Hankow will benefit all the time, because Wu-chang will be the capital—tho official city." WUCHANG THE CAPITAL. " Are you decided that Wu-ehang shall be the capital ?" " Yes, it is better for Wu-chang to take the place of Peking. Some of my party arc anxious still to retain Polling r.s tho capital, but I am convinced that Wu-chojig, for many reasons, is better for the Central Government. But that and many other matters will be decided later." In concluding our conversation, his Excellency said he thought the Imperial army would" continue fighting for perhaps another three months—it would take the repub 1 ican army this length of time perhaps before fchty had marched upon Peking and captured it, but the Imperials could not last long because they had no provinces but Chihli and Honp.n to draw from. Lapsing then into small talk, his Excellency told me that he bad been to Japan for one year only, that, he had five children (two boys and three girk). that ho was a native of'Hwangpi, in Hupeh, and that when his children were old enough h,<* would 6end them away for their education. " Where to?" —" To America," came the reply, and a happy smile with it. Subsequently his Excellency, with utmost good humour, allowed me to take hie photo, laughing at my efforts to get light on to the verandah where the picture was taken. 110 explained that he did this as a personal favour, for he was not very anxious to appear in print, and not at all until his new uniform came to hand, .and his staff: officers had a decided objection to their photograph being taken on the same account. AJtor wishing me good-bye, General Li, still holding my hand, said: "One word more before you go." He placed his left hand on my shoulder, bent his body slight Iv towards me. "Please do not forget to say that, this revolution took place because the Manchus were eo unfair to the Chinese—for no other reason." He then bade me farewell, and I departed.