THE DEFENCE OUTLINED.

Otago Witness, Issue 2649, 21 December 1904, Page 53

THE DEFENCE OUTLINED.

\ LIEUTENANT SHERA'S EVIDENCE. i . MORE ABOUT DILLON'S MESSAGES. CHRISTOHURCH, December 17. The Seddon-Taylor slander ease, in which Captain R. J. S. Seddon claims £1000 . damages for defamation of character from Mr T. E. Taylor, senior member for Christchurch, was continued this morning. Lionel B. Stensell, clerk, Palmerston North, gave evidence that he was with the main body at the commencement of the retirement, but he did not remember how | long he remained with it. There was no I running 1 away or a stampede, and witness i did not see Captain Seddon and the main ; body gallop for three miles to a place of | absolute safety. 1 By Mr Taylor : He was captured on the side of the spruit on which the main column was picked up later. Whilst in the •vicinity of the spruit witness was firing, the .rifle /being sighted from 1500 to 1500 yards. It was somewhere, about mid-day when he . waa captured, but it might have been before or after, as none of them carried watches. Witness and Choat were captured. The Boers surrounded them, at a spot 10 or 15 yards across the spruit. Witness did not know where Captain Seddon was when he and Cheat were captured. After taking their rifles, bandoliers, and leggings, the Boers left. Witness arrived .at the camp about midnight, passing one of the doctors going out to fetch Dillon, he thought. He did not know whether it was Dr Gabites or "Dr Dawson. Witness reported' himself to Sergeant-major Love, who has since died, and" also reported to Captain Seddon that he had been captured. ' Witness did not see the main body crossing the spruit, as he was watching the flank. - Mr Taylor: Did you give ev^enoe before Colonel Porter? — Witness; I was called before Colonel Porter. Were you sworn? — I cannot say. The night I was called before Colonel Porter was the night of the retirement. It was some time after midnight, and I felt just about done up, and I have no clear remembrance of what was done. Was your, evidence taken down? — It may have been. I am not dear on the point. Was anyone else in the tent beside Colonel Porter and yourself? — I am not sure. Crespin might have been there. Can you recall what you said -to Colonel Porter? — Well, somewhat similar to the evidnce I have 'given this morning. Did you tell him. that you had not seen -anything of Captain Seddon at the spruit? — I• do not „ remember whether I was asked that. . Did you sign your evidence?—! don't know. i Dr Findlay: Mr Taylor knows- he has got it. Mr- Taylor: That's all right. We will hear all about it. In reply to Dr Findlay the witness said that after crossing the spruit he heard firing further up the hill.' He did not know at'tjbe time who occupied the position up there. ■ He Jcnew there was firing from and at that, position. That went on for some time. , Finally he was captured. One of his comrades, managed to get up on to high ground. He did not attempt to get ,up the hill because his horse had been shot. Captain Whitely stated that he was at present living at Gisborne. He had been a of the- Seventh Contingent. Before he went out to South Africa he had had experience as ,a Volunteer in military matters. He joined the Yorkshire Yeomanry at Home, and served for three years, the first as a private, the second as a corporal, and the third a$ a sergeant. From 1896 up to when -he left for South Africa, »he . held a commission with the New Zealand Forces. He was first a lieutenant of the Te Aroha Rifles, and afterwards captain. After leaving that district for Hawke's Bay he joined the Hawke's-'Bay Mounted Rifles, v He was elected first lieutenant of that corps. Captain Russell, who had seen actual service, being elected captain. He still-held his commission when he left, for South Africa. He remembered the Blessbok Spruit affair. A troop of 100 men, under Captain Seddon, had left the farm on 'the morning of June 1, with a number of scouts in advance. A little over two mil&s from the spruit Captain Seddon called to him, and told him to take his troop and work round in a circle and meet him again, with the object of collecting some cattle on his Way. He had about 19 men -with him at that time. • He was about a mile away from Captain Seddon, when Captain , Saxby came up to him with instructions that he should retire at once with the troops to where Captain Seddon was fetlted. The troop started straight away, and cantered to where Captain Seddon was. On the way they passed > a small knot of men posted somewhere near the farmhouse, and he remembered hearing Captain Saxby calling them in. The troop passed on, and he quite understood that the outpost men were following. When the troop reached Captain ' Seddon he heard a little firing going on away to the right front. He could scarcely say what the scouts were doing. He could hear the firing, but the soout3 themselves were scarcely visible. When the troop got up to the main body, Captain Seddon began to prepare for retirement. He was instructed to take his troop and form a portion of the main body, and to nipve slowly on. Captain Seddon remained with the rearguard along with Captain Saxby. Throughout those movements there was nothing in the nature of ' a panic or stampede. He led the main body at a very slow walking pace in the direction of the spruit, and when the main body had reached a fair average distance from the rearguard. Captain Seddon galjoped up and joined the main body. If Captain Seddlon had not come up then he would have halted until he had done so, for Captain Se-ddon'a proper position was undoubtedly with the main body. Captain Seddon continu&d with the main body till within a short distance of the spruit. Different men rode up and gave messages to Captain Seddon. He did not know whether Dillon was one of these men. He remembered a Dutch guide being attached to the body. The retirement was at a good walking paoe, and there were several halts. When about three-quarters of a mile from the ppruit, Captain Seddon oalled upon him to detach four men to support the right flank. The firing seemed to b© very strong at that time, and he saw Boers apparently trying to ge,t round on the right. The rear at that time seemed to be pretty well engaged. The average distance between the r,ea-r screen and the main body was about 900 yards, and the rear supports would be from 500 yards to 600 yards distant. That average would be maintained till they got

near to the spruit. There was no disorder or stampede, and the men behaved extremely well. After the men were detached Captain Seddon instructed him to follow the guide and take his men across the spruit. The spruit had a narrow fall leading down to the crossing, and he ordered the men to form twos, i*nd in that order they went down to the spruit. On reaching the spruit they experienced a perfect hail of bullets. It was practically his first sensation of being under fire, and it rather impressed him. When the firing commenced the guicte at onoe rammed his spurs into his horse and j galloped up the hill, and shouted to him j to follow. He naturally did follow, and ; galloped after the guide, calling to his men j to do the same. They did so, and crossed I the spruit in 6plendid order, and, fortunately, without any casualty. After that he saw five or six men who had formed his advance soreon in a kraal. He ordered his men to dismount, and sent the horses to as -safe a spot as he could find, and ordered the men to get into line and try and locate the Boer's fire, and return. They took up a good position across the spruit about 50 yards to the right of where they had crossed. From the position they occupied they were defending the crossing from the Boers. He crossed before Captain Seddon some little time. After they had been fired on he looked to the left, and saw Captain Seddon riding. He was bareheaded, and seemed to be giving instructions to some of the men behind, him. He was exposing himself between the two fires, his own men's 1 highex'.uj) and the Boer's fire lower down. They continued to occupy that position for close on half an hour, and then lieutenant Cameron went down and gave orders to mount and' retire. It was witness's belief that at ihat time all the men had crossed the spruit. The retirement went on for some distance, when there was a slight skirmish with the Boers. They had gone in about two miles towards camp. He was with Captain Seddon from the time he joined witness for four miles towards the spruit. Dr Findlay: It is said*that Captain Seddon, after being asked for assistance by the scouts, who could not extricate themselves, ordered his troop to retire, and that he and his whole troop galloped away for three miles, passing positions he could have easily i held and defended until he got out of range i of the enemy's fire and into a position of absolute safety, is that true? — Witness: No, undoubtedly not; ther« is not a word of truth in it. That meana, to say that I and Cameron and the rest of us cleared? — Yes; that's it. — It is a most infamous lie. Cross-examined by Mr Taylor, Witness said he could not cay whether Donkin or Lieutenant Cooper were members of his troop. The troop was mixed that day. They were not all his own men.* - He remembered Ireland, who, however, was not in hi 3 troop that march. When they were near the farmhous, where Captain Saxby came up, all his company were not with him. They were scattered, some collecting cattle. He thought the men on the outpost j in, charge of the cattle were of his troop, but would not be sure. As they passed the men they saw Captain Saxby calling ,to , them, and he naturally thought they were [ with him. He gave hi 6 sergeant instructions to call in all the men and abandon the cattle. - The sergeant and the troop followed in their proper position, about a couple of horse lengths behind. He did not halt to see if the outpost came up, be- i cause Captain Saxby had oalled to them ! and he saw them mount. They rode on j to Captain vSeddon at a fair canter. He I made no report, as Captain Seddon was otherwise engaged at the time. Witness j thought the whole of his troop was with him when 'they reached Captain Seddon. He did not call the roll to ascertain. Captains Seddon and Saxby had some conversation, and Captain Seddon told witness to I form the main body, as they were going to | retire. They went at a slow walking pace j towards the spruit. They went about 800 ; to 900 yards before Captain Seddon rejoined them. The first halt made would be about ' a njnle from the start. Captain Seddon j continued with the main body until within ■ a short distanoe . from the spruit. They never went .faster than a sharp walk until * the spruit was reached. They had at least four halts. As far as his memory served °™> l a men followed him o\-er the spruit. When he detached four men to support the flank he could see that the rearguard seemed to be heavily engaged. They seemed stronger than previously, and witness considered the scouts had retired on them and were assisting them in their action. Captain Seddon could certainly see them from that point/ Their attention was drawn to them. They were then close upon half a mile from the spruit. The main body did not halt and take part in the fighting, because it was not their duty. Mr Taylor was proceeding to ask further questions on points previously dealt with when Dr Findlay interposed that that was about -the fourth time that those questions had been asked. *.i. HlS i ?onor:? onor : You seem to me to go over tne details tune after time. When you have- exhausted one incident you leave it and then .afterwards return to it. I quite agree that it is quite necessary to get the evidence very fully, but it is not necessary that every little detail should be gone into. It really takes a very long time. Mr Taylor: Very well, your Honor; I win be as brief as I can. In reply to further questions, witness said Captain Seddon did not give him any further orders. After crossing the spruit he was higher up on the rise.. After they had occupied the position for half an hour, Cameron gave instructions to him to retire, and they did. The men had itpt be&n under fire before, but they had settled down to their work by then, and did not want to lsave. Mr Taylor: What column did you strike that night? Was it your own? — Witness: The first was not our own. I think it was i Knox's. Captain Seddon was with us when wo struck that column. Where are you employed? — I am employed by the Citizens' Life Assurance Company, and Gisborne is my station. .Have you discussed it with a man named Guildford? — I don't know such a man. < Have you discussed it with Cameron? — Hector Cameron was one of my lieutenants at the time I was acting-captain of the Nelson squadron, after Captain Seddon left, ' and, of course, we had maiijr chats over it. ! Have you discussed with him the necessity of protecting an officer in this action against a civilian? — Of protecting him? His Honor repeated the question, and witness replied that it was not necessary. Mr Taylor: That is a very ambiguous reply. I will leave it. I will take the answer. Re-examined by Pr Findlay: Has there

been any arrangement between you and Cameron, or v anyone else, as to shaping your evidence? — No, sir. Or to protect an officer at th© expense of truth in this ease? — No. You are not connected with the Government or plaintiff in any way? — No. I You are perfectly independent? — Yes. ; Lieutenant Hector Cameron, a shepherd | in the North Island, was examined by Mr Stringer. He stated that he had been a j trooper in the First Contingent, and served I with it the whole time it was in South Africa. He then returned to New z*ea1 land, and afterwards joined the Seventh Contingent, in which he got a lieutenant's commission. He saw several engagements, including that at Sanna's Post, when with the first Contingent. At Blessbok Sprui-. witness was under Acting-captain Drurv ■ He remembered the message coming in from the scouts and the conference of officers, which decided to get the scouts baok, as they were too far out. As far as witness know, this decision was communicated to the scouts. After that the retirement commenced, the main body going at a walk towards the spruit. Dr Findlay: Do you remember, after going some little distance, any strengthening being given to the rearguard? — Yes, there were three troopers left with Captain Saxby and Captain Drury. You are an experienced horseman, I think? You have been at it all your life? — Pretty well. Were these horses you had with you particularly good? — Rather the reverse. Had they done, a hard day's work the day before ? — Yes. Did you at any time between the retirement and reaching the spruit gallop your horses? — No. Was Captain i Seddon with you at the time? — I should say he> was. At that time were the Boers threatening the right flank?— Yes. After crossing the spruit, did you put down a firing line to cover them — to cover \ those chat were not over? — It was composed of the men I had with me. I saw Captain Seddon at the time the men in the firing line were under fire. Did you see Captain Seddon later do anything higher up? — I saw him put out another line. They got into firing position, but did not have to fire. How long did you maintain the position Captain Seddon ordered you to take up?— I really could not say. - Did you remain there till the- engagement was practically over? — Yes; I received the order from Captain Seddon. As far as I know everyone waß across the. spruit at that time. Mr Taylor: At the conference of officers did Captain Seddon tell you that he had three" messages from Lieutenant Dillon? — I knew ho had word from him, that is all. Did Ive tell you that at the conference-? — He told us that they wanted support. Did he tell you why? — No. A galloper, whose name witness did not remember, was the means of communication with the scouts. When th© retirement started, witness saw the scouts, and kuew they were under fire. Th© retirement to the spruit was done at a walk. He saw no officers haye 7 a conference with Captain Seddon during the retirement. If officers had ridden up with a Dutch guide and entered into a conversation with Captain Seddon .whilst on the march would you have seen them? — If Captain Seddon had been with ,mji, troop. There was another troop in front of me. What distance separated the troops?--About a oouple of chains. Where did the main body commence firing during the. retirement? Across the spruit. Dr Findlay: That closes the case for the plaintiff. His Honor : Before calling upon the defendant it seems to me that now is the proper time to consider the question as to the exact form in which the statements you allege should go to the jury. Dr Findlay said that in paragraph o of the statement of claim the court had already permitted the amendment from " court martial " to " martial court." He would apply for leave to amend paragraph 4 to the effect that on or about the 29th October, at Wellington, the defendant, when asked by Mr John Duthie to whom he referred indicated by a nod to Mr Duthie that the person referred to "was Captain Seddon. His Honor : I should think the proper course would be simply "to put the exact words used by Mr Duthie. Dr Findlay: I will agree to that. Continuing, Dr Findlay said that he> proposed to delete Mr Herdman's name, and, with regard to Mr Laurenson, he would rely upon the words at the end of Mr Laurenson's evidence. His Honor : What do you suggest. He said nothing you could take hold of in his examination. Dr Findlay: He said that Mr Taylor's reference to the Military Court in South Africa referred to Captain Seddon. His Honor: I am not satisfied that the words are sufficient. Then, as to the other man (Spencer), I think yoti wilt have to put in the exact words used. Dr Findlay Yes, I will quote the exact words. His Honor: Have you aoiy^ objection to these amendments Mr Taylor? Mr Taylor : 1 ha.ye nothing to say. His Honor: I feel satisfied both as to the right and propriety of making the alterations, and the amendments will be made. In reply to liis Honor, Dr _ inolay said that the inu&ndo remained the same.