POLICE COMMISSION.

Otago Witness, Issue 2302, 14 April 1898, Page 21

POLICE COMMISSION.

_The Police Commission resumed its sitHnge at Town Hall on Monday, 4th, at 10 a.m. There were present— Messrs H. S. Wardell, S.M. (chairman), J. W. Poynton, H.M., Colonel Hume, Mr T. E. Taylor, M.H.R., and Commissioner Tunbridge. The first witness called was Constable Pratt, stationed at Clyde, who complained principally that he had nob been promoted acoording to his deserts, and secondly, that he had been transferred about the service too inucht His defaulter's sheet was produced. There were against him a charge of speaking or gossiping with Constable Walton in the street whilst on duty and with not attending a railway station on the departure of a train. He explained with regard to the former that Constable Walton had come to relieve him ] from the beat. He asked him if he were going to take up his beat. They had not been together five seconds when Inspector Moore made his appearance, and subsequently stated falsely that he hid seen them talking for fully five minutes or more. As to the railway station incident, he accounted ia the most satisfactory manner as to j why he was late. He arrived in time to see the 1 train depart. Inspector Moore had a dowa 1 on him, and only brought him to Dunedin ! that he could more effectively annoy him. J He had to complain to Colonel Hume that In- i spsctor Moore had evidently resolved to make it unpleasant for him. He got no satisfaction from Colonel Hume, and then he endeavoured to gst \ the matter brought before Parliament. Whether j it came before the House or not hs could not ' exactly say, but Mr W. Hutchison, ■who took the j cisc in baud, wired that the attention of the \ Minister for Defence had been drawn to it, and j the Minister had stated that he (Constable Pratt) had been badly treated. Witness would like Mr Hutchison called. He had brought his case under the notice of all the local parliamentary members, and it was on their advice that he had gone to Parliament for redress. Mr Hutchison subsequently wrote him that he was to be immediately transferred to Alexandra to take charge of the station there. It was a very bad place for lavrikinism. When at Gore hs was appointed clerk of the court. Ihere was an average of 70 cases a month, and he received £10 a year for the extra work. A cleik was appointed a little before he left at £200 a year. Subsequently a bailiff was also appointed to do work he had been doing. He was transferred to Wyndham in 1833, I aud remained there_ till 18S7, when he was trans- | ferred to Invercargill. Wyndhain was a hotbed of larrikinism. He did not kuow how it was, but he was always sent to bad places. Just before he bad left he had been reported by a man named William Wynter, a saddler He was a kleptomaniac. He had to be constantly watched by the police. Witness had to get a ■ search warrant to visit the place on several occasions. He reported witness to the Minister for Jmtice, and made a number of false charges against him. It was referred to the comrnisbioner, i and an inquiry was ordered to be held Inspector J Buckley came lo the place to hold the inquiry, j but the man refused to proceed with the charges. The inspector therefore went away without obtaining any results. A week or so afterwards , he was transferred to Invercargill, and he believed that it was due to the underhand work . of the man who made the charge. ', Commissioner Tunbridge produced the inspsc- ; tor's report and Wynter's charge against the constable. The latter stated that Constable ' Pratt was not efficient in n detecting larcenies, * j and suggested that he fchoulcl be transferred and a good man be put in his place. The inspector's leport was to the effect that he made two visits to Wyndham, and the man Wynter, who made the charge, refused to call any evidence in support of it. He, however, asserted that the constable had searched his house, and had been ' telling people he had suspicions as to Wynter's conduct. The inspector went on to state that he had reason to transfer Constable " Pratt from Gore because he could not satisfactorily discharge the duties of the place. Since then he had not discharged the duties at Wyndham satisfactorily to himself (the ; inspector) or to the public. The constable, how- j ever, was a steady man and would do well In the J foot service in town. The people of Wyndham i gave him an excellent character for sobriety, but , the people thought that the district should have j a younger and more energetic man. i Constable Piatt said that the inspector had misrepresented him, and he had asked for an inquiry, which was refused him. Commissioner Tunbridge read the constable's letter to the department, written at the time of the transference and requesting to know the cause of his being transferred, and asking that an inquiry should be held. Constable Pratt added that had he an opportunity through an inquiry he could have called evidence which would have vindicated his position. Cormiriissiorier Tunbridge read several other reports, and also a patition signed by five justices of the peace, protesting against the constable's removal from Wyndham. j The commission replied to this by requesting | the constable to state how it was that the j petitioners knew so much of Constable Pratt's duties, and if he did not know that to employ | outside influence was a breach of the regulations. J Constable Pratt's explanation was that the whole , district knew of the circumstances of the case, r and the fact tbat a fortnight before his removal j Wynter (a b«l character) had openly boasted s that he would have the constable removed. ; Another report was read from the inspector to j the commissioner, to the effect that the former : had questioned Constable Pratt as to the reason why he asked for an explanation of his transfer- I ence, and adding that he (the inspector) thought it was a piece of impertinence on his part to make such a reque&t. Correspondence between the commissioner and one of the justices who siyoed the petition was also rear!, and the justi"e stated that their action in forwarding the petition was purely spon- j taneous, and the constable had not solicited any j iufluence. Subsequently the commissioner told - him that he was going to be transferred to B,>lclutha. In doing so the commissioner said : I understand that B.dclutha is the be3t station in Otago, and I hope you will get on all right." Witness understood that the" transfer was to make amends for the bad way in which he had previously been treated. Mr Wardell requested to know where Inspector i Buckley now was. Commissioner Tunbridge replied that he was not now in the force. Constable Pratt continued to say that he went to Balclutha, and got the credit of putting down larrikinism. After being a couple of years at Balclutha he was sent to Kaitangata. At that place he only had a four-roomed house, and one of the rooms ho had to use as an office. He had then 10 of a family. He had had bad homes to live in wherever he went. He offered to find labour to build two other rooms if material were supplied, but the offer was refused. He was compelled to put up a room as an office, whica the department had been U3ing ever s>ince, und he never got a penny for it. Erorn Kaitangata he was transferred to Alexandra, where he had to cops with something \vor=e than larrikinism. Prom Alexandra he was transferred to Clyde. He j asked for four days in which to decide whether he would leave the force or not. He got a reply that j if he were not in Clyde within 12 hours he would j be suspended. The house he had there was a i j most uncomfortable one. The climate had two extremes — veiy hot in the summer and very cold in the winter, — and the hou3e was not fit to live iD. In reply to Colonel Hume, Witness stated that it was the general belief in the force that political or Masonic influence was needed to get on in the force, but it would be very hard for him to cite > ! individual cases where men were promoted by ] | these means. ' The commission then adjourned for lunch. | On resuming, [ Constable Griffiths was called. lie stated that j he wa3 a first class constable, stationed at Bal- j clutha. There \ve_re two charges preferred against j ] him — viz., of visiting place? he was not ordered to, j and with attending a fire in plain clothes. Both of these were unjust and admitted of explanation, j With regard to the first, he said tbat he was a mounted man at Invercargill, and occasionally he took long patrols into the country. Oa one occasion he visited the West Plains— j a district he had not visited for a long time ! *• Oa his velum lie met the inspector, who aske,d.

him where Le had lseefti He ioiit hta. ilia Itt* spector then asked Sergeant Slattery wh&& tfmc the mounted men had to bo in. Sergeant Slatterjj told him that he gavo the mounted men no instructions. The inspector observed that thera should be instructions. When he had put up the hoise he removed his hat and jumper, and went up the street. A fire broke out, and he went there. When he was coming away he saw the inspector coming up. He took a turn round just to let the inspector see he had been at the fire, because he bad that day complained of his staying out on patrol beyond the usual time. Some days after Sergeant Slattery said that the inspector had ordered him to report him (Griffiths). This he did, and he was fined 20s. The inspector was the witness, prosecutor, jury, and judge, and that such thingß should be would not be tolerated ] in any other force in the world. What the policewanted was that they should at least receive the same fairplay as was received by criminals— that is, that they should be brought before two justices or a stipendiary magistrate. Commissioner Tunbridge said that the inspector had increased powers now. Before they could only fine up to £1, now they had the power of fining up to £3. Iv reply to Colonel Hume, witness stated thafc j the defaulters' list was a false one so far as he i w<)S concerned. It showed that he pleaded guilty i to Ihe charges, which was not true. j To Colonel Hume : What witness said was that , ia no other force in the world did the system I obtain of allowing the inspector to act in ths rdlo I of a prosecutor, witness, and judge. It did not ; obtain in the Royal Irish Conatabulary. I Commissioner Tuobridge bore out the witness , in this respect. 1 In answer to further questions put by the commissioner, witness statsd that he was a Freemason, but used no influence to gain promotion. He joined the force in 1883, was promoted to second class in 1888, and first class in 189-1. It was the general opinion that political influence was necessary to get on, but his was a case of a man getting on well without it. Constable Pratt was then recalled, and continued his evidence. He stated that he absolutely denied the charges that had been preferred against him by Inspector Buckley and Wynter. They were both Masons. The system of promotion was also bad. At present a man was promoted practically by chance. For instance, a man might be stationed for 20 years at Clyde and never have a chance to save a drowning man or capture a murderer or do anything else which leads to promotion. Promotion should go by seniority and not by adventitious circumstances. It wai simply cruel that a man with a big family , should be stationed at Clyde as ho was. The pay was not sufficient to enable him to keep a family. ' To Colonel Hume : The charges preferred against him delayed the issue of his long-service medal for two years. He did not know if the system of entering details upon the defaulters' sheet without the knowledge of the defaulter still obtained. lie took upon himself the credit of getting married men into country stations. He was locked up once at Alexandra. He and four or five civilians were arresting a violent map, and when .they got him in the lock-up the larrikins turned the bolt on the lot of them. Mr Poynton : It is not worth while bringing: ', it out — a larrikin's trick. • Witness (continuing) : He was not a Free1 mason. He never sought influence of any kind ■ iv getting promotion. I In reply to Colonel Hume as to whether he could point out one man who had been promoted through Masonic or political influence he instanced the case of aMr Ross. Boss came to him. at Mataura and told him he wanted to join tha service. He told him to go to Dunedin. Sis: years after he met him, and he was a sevceant. He probably got on through political influence. He was a friend of Mr H. Gourley. Rosa was not a sergeant now. < To Mr Taylor : Witness had to have recourse to Mr Mackenzie, Mr Hutchison, and Mr Pinkertoa to get justice— not to get promotion. Under the old system a great lpany men had to have similar •* recourse to get justice. j To Commissioner Pitt : It was not a fact that i the people of Alexandra South had simply made at. j butt of him. It was true he had dragged a dead sheep, done up to represent a man, for a distance j of seven miles, under the belief that it was a dead, j Chinaman. Two doctors had been examinipg ifc for 20 minutes before they discovered the jokeSeveral hundreds of people saw the dummy and never recoguisect it. The sergeant gave him orders what to do with it. What he complained of was that he had been ordered about the service too much and that he had not got his deserts. If he were offered the post of a sergeant he would not take it. But that did not alter the fact that ha should have been appointed a sergeant. He was getting £156 a year, free quarters, fuel, and light, and Is a day long service pay. Constable Latimer, first class constable, stationed at Dunedin, said, in reply to Mr Taylor, that tor the pat.t nine month 3he had been acting as watchhouse-keeper. Some years ago it was the j custom for constables to visit Speight's brewery at night, but it had not happened within the past ! three years. A case had happened where a con- ! stable, who was now out of the force, brought beer 1 from the brewery to the barracks. There wasa t better feeling in the force during the past six ' months. j To Mr Wardell : Recent promotions had some- ! thing to do with the better feeling in the force. \ Mr Taylor said he did not propose to press quesi tions regarding the brewery. He- believed that ■ tha practice had been discontinued. | Constable M'Oormack, third class constable. ' stationed at Dunedin, said he joined the force ia ; 1892. He came to Dunedin in August, 1895. He1 had been doing street duty ever six.cc. Two meu had been in the habit of frequenting Speight's brewery, but the practice had been discontinued. It was an understood thing that political influence must be obtained to get promotion. There was a j far better feeling in the foi cc during the past six i months, engendered by the change of control. | There was a feeling amongst the_ men that they ! should have a full Sunday off like the men at Christchurch and some other places. Constable Toomey was then called. He said ha joined the force from the artillery in 1894, ami had been stationed at Dunedin ever since. H«

believed from hearsay that it was the custom of Borne of the men to go to Speight's brewery. It liad been discontinued fully two years ago. Ifj ■was generally understood then that the men, if they wished, had access to the brewery.

To Commissioner Tunbridge : Witness believed that a pension would be preferable to retiring allowance. r' Constable M'Cnrmack was asked a similar question, and replied that a pension was preferable to a retiring allowance.

The commission then adjourned till 7.30 p m,

On resuming, Sergeant O'Neill stated that he joined the force in 1874. He had been in charge of the Dunedin station for about six years. He had been over 30 years in the service. Ho had been about 16 years in the Dunedin circuit. He had been about 12 years at Noith Dunedin, He was attached to the Dunedin station when he first joined. He detailed all the places he had been Bhifted to. In 1879 he was appointed second class sergeant. There was no rank among constables in those days, and there was no third class sergeant. All the moves were made without a single protest and without any influence. Those were busy times. He knew a Mr M'Ardle, a justice cf the peace. To hi 3 knowledge ho had never interested hiaiself on his behalf. Political influence commenced to exist at the amalgamation in 18/7. It was keen three or four years ago. He remembered a circular being issued not long ago about orderlies. Orderlies were to ba relieved quarterly. A constable n-imcd Mayne acted as one, and when his time expired witness ordered Mm for ttreet duty. He said he was not fit to <&o street duty, and asked to bo brought

l>efoie the inspector. The result was that he was kept on as court ordeily, and remained in that position till he went to Christchurch. Since Mayne left the regulations had l>een adhered to. M'lntyre was the next court orderly, and remained as such for a couple of months, till he was transferred to Arrowtown. M'liltyie was transferred to Arrow on the Ist January, IS9B. Constable Quinn succeeded M'lntyre, and Constable Paterson succeeded QuiuD. Bachelors latterly were not appointed to country stations. Constable Quiun and Constable 3?aterson wero unmarried. Constable Hanson acted as inspector of weights and measures under the Adulteration cf Foods Act. He did no outside duties. The day watchhouse-keeper got off ■four hour 3 every Sunday. Most of the men doing etreet duty were not competent to act as watchhouss-keepsr. They were bad writers, but not necessarily illiterate. In the present state of the strength of the force it was impossible to allow men off the whole of the Sunday. The men were not late for 9 o'clock parade on Sunday. As & sergeant, he had never laid an information against the Shamrock Hotel. The circular with reference to instruction clatses had been strictly observed, and classes were held every week — on Thursdays. Frequent changes in the city were very injurious to the service. He had heard of a eergeapt beiug examined for insanity. He was still in the service. _He believed that the examination proved that'he was sane. Sergeant Shirley was a thoroughly capable E)au. He did not know if his removal to Dunedin was protested against in the interest of the seivice. Th'B Dunedin staff of policemen was an efficient ona. XJe knew of no man that should be weeded out. To Commissioner Tunbridge : He considered that six men more should ba_ added to the Dunedin staff to make iv efficient. He believed tensions were better than a i - etiring allowance. He considered that a man should cot be compelled to leave the force, but allowed to woik co long a^ he was able. He knew, however, of men who were in the force who were too old to efficiently discharge their duties. He thought that uniforms should be supplied. It was an advantage for men in the town to know the inhabitants. He 'believed that 40 years of age was to 3 late in life to' peimit of mm to joiu tbe force. To Mr Taylor ; Witness did not know of his own kuowledge, but he Leard that ? ome years ago some - cf the men were in the habit of visiting a brewe-y. He did rot' hear that a key of the brewery should be left in a- ceitain place. The thing had now ceased to exist. .To Mr Wardell :• Witness ihotsghfc a longBervice pay should exist, in order to get men to stay in the service. The longer a man was in the service the more efficient he became. To Colonel Hume : Speaking of recruiting from the Permanent Artilleiy, he did not think it was a good system. If he had the Ricking of tbe men *he would go out into the country and select a big lump of a farm labourer and make a policeman out of him. John BelJ, first claes sergeant and district clerk, stationed at Dunedin, said he joined in 1861, haviDg had four year*' previous experience In the English police. He was promoted to first ■ claes sergeant in 1869. Detectives had not to ■write out their reports of their actions every day. He had served under Commissioner Brannigan, Commissioner Weklon, Inspector Moore, Inspector Hickson, and Inspector Pardy.

To Commissioner Tunbridge : Except in tiivial cases, a defaulter had the right to call evidence. She commissioner woul i hear both sides and then decide. lie did not know of the practice at Tnve-cargill. Witness remembered the case of Constables Pratt and Walton beiDg reported for gossiping, but lie could not recollect the details. It was the practice of the detectives to icport iv

•writing anything serious. The detectives and the inspector had a conference daily, but in every

matter of importance the detectives made a written report. The morning conference was not to relieve the detectives fiom making reports. The detectives kept a diary of their movements, which was exsmiued periodi&ily by the inspector. In dealing with defaulters Inspector Pardy took the evidence in writing. In all cises wheiethe men pleaded not guilty the evidence was taken in writing. Formerly this wag not so. Latterly a man h&d an opportunity of defending himself by calling witnesses.

To Mr Taylor : It had been a very common thing for men to say that political influence was neceeeary to get promotion. There had been a few transferb ordered from tirce to time, and then cancelled through wire pulling. The political feeling had toned down considerably since the arrival of the new commissiontr, and theie seemed to be a feeling that Ihere was not now much use of using political influence Theie was a feeling now that the force had been handed over to an expeit police rfficer.

To Commissioner Tunbiidge : WilaedS thought a superannuation fund should be established on lines of New South Wales for psnsiuns. That was that a man should be allowed to retire after 15, 20, or 25 year^ service, with a pension r.n a sliding scale according to seivice. It should be established by a Govern meat contribution of £C 5,000 or £39,000, and then a reduction of 5 per cent, should be made on the salaries of all ranks. The scheme was got up in Dunedin and handed to Mr Hutchison to put through the Hon=e.

To Colonel Hume : The feeliDg in the force seemed to be that the iqree had been handed over from a political head to an expert polke oilicer. He believed that; some of the inspectors put effeuces on the defaulters' list without te'.ling the defaulter.

Con -table Quicn, third class constable, said he joined the force in 1892 or 1893. He was fhst stationed in Dunedin, and had been there ever since. There was a general feeling some time back that political interference was superior to police discipline. He had heai,d Constable Aitcheson speak of being able to procure political influence. Witness attended the instruction classes a few times. He could not say how often he attended the classes. They had been established in 1896. When lie was off duty he attended the classes. It was considered an important thing by the men that they should attend the classes. The inspectors class was held legu'arly once a month. He started street duty without any previ us police tuition. There was a strong feeling that the men should have a Sunday off once a month. To Commissioner Tunbridge : Jf a man did not attend the classes he was treated as a defaulter. Experienced men were not returned to attend, The court orderly work entailed longei hours thun etreet work. He believed in a pension in preference to a retirii'g allowance. To Colonel Hume : Witness had heard Constable Aitcheton boasting of political influence. He was five minutes late on parade once and was fined 23 6d. He pulled the ptrings and got the money refunded. He then boasted of how he beat the

inspector. 'io Cjnniii'-E.ionerTiiiibiidge : Constable Aitcheson was dkiu.sscd. lie did not gel picmotioii during t'ae live yoai'c lie had been in the service,

so that his political influence did not do him any good. The commission then adjourned till this mornng at 10 o'clock.

The Police Commission resumed its sittings at the Town Hall on Tuesday, the sth, at 10 o'clock, and there were preseat— Messis Wardell (chairman), Poynton, T. B. Taylor, Colonel Hucoe, and Commissioner Tunbridge.

John Frederick Woodhouse, solicitor, stated that he had been instructed by Bishop Nevill to appear for him and to ask to be allowed to state the facts with regard to the property referred to in the evidence given by Messrs M'Gill and Thomson. Mr M Gill stated that the houses on the properly were occupied by improper characters, and that the bishop had a mortgage for £1000, for which he was leceiving 10 per cent, interest. The facts were these : Some IS years ago, 18S0, Bishop Nevill was asked by his then financial agent in Duuedin to advance £1000 on leasehold security, the borrower being Mr W. Asher, who held the lease of the property referred to from Lund's trustees. Lund's trus'ees were well known iv Duuedin as probably the largest private owners of property in the city. Ihey were noted for the way ia which their estate was managed and for the care taken in regard to it. The lease to A-list was dated September 10, 1877, aud was for 60 years. By the lease he waa bound to erect £500 worth of substantial buildings during the first year, and he was also bound not to allow any improper trade or business to be carried on. The conditions were generally stringent, showing that the landlords intended that their place should be kept in proper order and condition. It was on the security of that lease and the buildings which had been erected or were in the course of erection ihat the bisbep was asked to lend hia inon^. The bishop thought he looked at the property, but was not ceitain. He (Mr Woodhouse) produced the mortgage from the bishop to Asher, dated June 18, 1850, tbe rate of interest being 10 per cent., and having a currency of five years. That wan 18 years ago, when the rate of interest was much higher than it is now. Then the mortgage in question was upon leasehold security, on which a' higher rate of interest was obtainable than could be expscted on freehold security. When the mortgage came due in 1885 the bishop requested Asher to pay it off. Asher was not able to do so, and the bishop had tried to get it paid off ever since. In June, 18S6, the rate of interest was reduced to 8 per cent., and in December, 1890, it was reduced to 5 per cent., and that was the iate of interest the bishop bad been receiving ever since. He discovered it was not a good security in point of value, and had tried very hard to get the money paid off. He offered to Asher some time ago, and the offer remained gcod still, to take £bOO in discharge of the mortgage. Mr Asher had cot, however, been able to pay off that sum. Mr Asher had paid the interest agreed upon, and the bishop had never gone into possession of the property. To do that the property would hive to be sold by the registiar, and the bishop become the purchaser, and take upon hiaiself the responsibilities of tbe Itase, which, had a long time to run. He had had nothing whatever to do with the tenants. When Mr M'Gill spoke to him he did not make the reply reported as caving been made by him — namely, "that he was roiry, but that he had invested money in the place, snd he v/^s afraid if he took any prompt aclionjie would lose by it." What the bishop says he said was : "He was only the mortgagee ; the matter was in ihe hands of Mr Asher, but he would speak to Asher on ths subject." He did speak to Asher, and also io his agent, and requested him to speak to Asher. Mr Asher said it was not coirect that there were improper characters about the place, adding that all his tenants weie respectable I'SOple. r ihe bishop was uot in a position to do more than he had done. lie waj induced to lend money on a security which wa9 bad frcm point of value— the rate of interest had been twice reduced— and he had offered to forego a considerable portion of his capital to get rid of the property, and expects in any event to lose a considerable portion of the money. The bishop was prepared to come forward and answer any questions if anyone wished to ask him any.

William Asher, house ageni, said that tbe firct information he had that the ni&tter was to be brought befoie the commission was the intimation he saw in Monday's Times that & complaint had been made before the commission that the police had not done their duty and that he was letting his houses to bad characters, both of which he emphatically denied. The police of late had been continually inquiiing as to who wss occupying his houses, even to the aDnoyancd of his tenants and himself. They had not made any complaints of the tenants to himself. With regard to certain girls to whom previous reference had been made, he said thit he did not believe that the girls had ever been before the cjurt. They appeared to be modest, decent girl*, living with their invalid mother. Chief Detective O'Biien had said that he had hK doubts about a house in Caigill street and about one in King street, but he did not think theie was a uvnilar place on witness's property in Mileul street. If there had, witness believed that from the inquiries that had been made the police would have known it. To tbe best of his belief tvery tenant on his property was honest p.nd industrious, working and earning their bread at their various callings, and they were quite as respectable tenants as those eccupying Messrs M'Gill and Thomson's houses. Tuuants he had lefused to let houses to had, he heard, gone to Mr M'Giil, and he had let th^m one in Leith street when ho owned that property. Pvegarding the two poor girls whese character this Christian man had endeavoured to ruin were two girls working and supporting their sick mother. They were emplojed in a business which caused them to be frequently out till 10 30 o'clock p.m., and they were escorted home by a gentleman friend at the express wish and sanction of the mother. The gu-ls, he thought, were about 18 yeais of age. Furthermore, this family were old teuants of Mr M'Gill, and paid him 123 6d per week for one of his houses. As to Mr M'Gill's reference to another person named Scotch Lizzie, witness had no knowledge of the .-.person, 'ihe remainder of Mr M'Gill's evidence was equally untruthful and misleading. To the best of his (Mr Asher's) belief, Mr M'Gill had never complained to him personally respccMng the tenant 1 ? in these houses, With regard to Bishop Nevili, the mortgage held by him expired many years back, and he (witness) had beea requeoW to pay it off. 'Ihe bishop had kindly charged him sper cent, until he did paid it. The property cost hiiu over £2100, and he would be glad to sell it for about half that sum. In regard to Mr J. B. Thomson's statement, witness said that the police had never cleared out his property in Fiileul stieet. The row of louses had never all been empty at once. Drink was his greatest trouble in connection with small tenements, but he checked it as much as he Ci-uld When he could not check it hn gave the tenants notice to leave ; but in any case he would not go to Mr J. B. Thomson for a character as to morality or sobriety.

By Mr Taylor : The offer to let him off the mortgage for £000 came from the bishop's agent. He had no knowledge of any people, residents of his houses, who had been charged with keeping brothels or using obscene- language. Neither the police nor anyone else had complained to him about the houses. He might say that the trouble was not who the places were let to but who the tenants took in as boarders. He had let property in Chalmers place. That was a bad place. He had also let piopeity in Moray place to prostitutes. He had made an assignment some time ago, and handed the lease over to his creditors, but they would have uoth ng to do with it. That was over six j ears ago. He could not tell how long ago it was.

Inspector Paidy put in a return of persons charged at various time* from Ashei's right-of-way for breach of the peace, keeping a brothel, being the associate of prostitute, and drunkenness. There had been do charges since ]BftO.

William Aeher said that with one exception, a person charged with drunkenness, none of the persons mentioned in the return had been residents of his housfiP.

J^ibbop Nevill, who had been sent for, arrived at this stage, and, being swoin, said, in reply to Mr Taylor, that he had no personal knowledge of Mr Asher's tenants. He had had several complaints, but had not to this day seen the houses.

Mr M'Gill had made a complaint to him, and he (the bishop) had mentioned the matter both to his agent and to Mrs Asher. He was not aware children had been sent to the Industrial School for associating with prostitutes in Asher's lane. When Mr M'Gill spoke to him he said ha was very sorry, and if what he said wo.s true he would consult liis business man and also speak to Sir Asher on the subject.

By Mr Woodhcuse : He was quite sure he sxid nothing to Mr M'Gill about beiug afraid of losing money if he took any action in regard to Asher'a property. Until the commission commenced their sittings in Dunedin he had no idea that the property on which he had advanced money was known as " Asher's lane."

Sir Taylor then called John Dunne, whose evidence was not available at Balclutha. Witness s bated that he was a small farmer at Balclutha. His wife was owner of one of the houses which had the license taken away in 1894. He thought that the police had done all in their power to stop sly grog-selling. He was sergeant in charge of Balclutha in 18^1, and had never been in a more orderly towD. There was not so much drink sold now at Balclutha as previous to the abolition of licenses. At the request of Constable Parker, Inspector Pardy gave evidence as to the former's character. When til? constable was ai; Tapanui he did his duty veiy satisfactorily, but he was not satisfied with the way in which the Licencing Act wa3 carried out after prohibition. He did not exert himself sufficiently. To Mr Taylor : Witness did not disclose any plans he might have had to detect sly grog-selling at Tapanui. Ha truste ! to no one. It was reported to him that Constable Parker had given the publicans notice that the police intended paying the district a visit, but he could not get evidence to support it, and gave the constable the benefit of the doubt. Sergeant Beaumont, third class sergeant stationed at Dunedin, appeared before the commission, and stated that while acting as gaoler at Ariow he was not paid the allowance paid to all the other gaolers of the co'ony, and he claims as four years' salary the sum of about .£4O. Colonel Hume asked the witness if he did not know that of 33 police gaols in the colony only five gaolers were paid by the Prison department.

Colonel Hume gave e-udence that in ISB2 police gaols were established at which prisoners could be detained for £8 days. There were neaily 40 of them, and seven were placed on the Estimates for salaries. They were to be in charge of constables, who were paid by the Prisons department at £155 a year, while the Police department paid an extra shilling a day for loDg seivico if the nun were entitled. The places whnre the constables were piid were Oamaru, Timaiu, Clyde, Naseby, Tauranga, Lawrence, We^tporfc. Arrowtown was one of the police gaols paid by the Police department.

The case of Constable Christie, charged with collecting nioiiev ou commission, was then taken. Mr D. D. M&cdoaald appeared for the constable.

Johu Ran age. residing at Balclutba, said, in answer to Mr Taylor, that a Mr Burley, of Balclutha, had owed him 12s>. Ihe mouey had been paid about i 'eceniber 8, 1894. It was paid to witness by Constable Claristie in witness's sale shop. Witness returned the constable 2s, aud remarked at the time that it was found money. He had not expected to get it. The constalle declined to accept it, but witness pressed, and said it was worth something for Lis trouble. The constable then took it. \Vitnes3 knew in a general way that Constable Christie would collect the sum. Witness made an account out for the liionvy, and sent it cut by his son to Constable Christie with instructions to summon, or collect it in some other way. He did not think he g*\e Constable Christie a receipt for it. If he go'< th-3 money through the law he would have to si;ju a receipt for it. To 3fr MucJonald : Witness did not biitig this charge against Constable Christie. Christie did not want to take the mouey, but witness was grateful to Chris'ie for wbat he had done. Witness did not remember the aruount. but he telegraphed, and found that it was 12s. Witness had cot been clear as to the date of the transaction, the p.mouut, or the sum he to Christie. Christie was the clerk of the court at Balclutha. Witness mentioned this matter to Mr Taylor. Witness declined to say whether he told Mr Taylor about it out of gratitude to Christie. Witness was a member of the Prohibition League, lie was not always fo, and that was why he was now. He was in tbe hands of thepolice at Mataura once for being drunk on the tiain.

William Burley, lesiding at Balclutha, said that he knew Mr Kimage. He thought he was once indebted to Mr Ramage for 5?, or some sa>all amount. He heard that Ramage was going to summon him, aod he asked Christie to pay it for him, as Christie had lent him a few shillings occasionally. He believed that he owed Christie the money yet. He borrowed money from Christie four or five times. Be lent money to him as a friend. He never discounted any of witness's bills. He never gave Christie an I O 11. Witness soon a'ter became bankrupt, and Christie appeatsd ou the schedule for £12 as monry lent. He fi'edhis schedule about 15 months ago. He relieved that a small amount represented money paid by Mr Chrisrie to Mr Mills. Mills was going to summon him. Christie did not tell him that these people were going to summon Mm. There were some other Dunedin firms who weie paid with moaey borrowed from Christie, but he could not lemember who they were. The sou of Mr Ramage told witness that if he did not pay the amount withiu a certain time a summons would be issued. The soa delivered the account. Constable Chriscie did not deliver it.

Frederick Mills, bootmaker, rending at Balclutha, said that Mr Burley had owed him about a pound. 'Ihe money was paid to witness by Burley's wife in part, and Mr CLri*tie paid the balance. Witness was not sure if he summoned Burley or not. Witness had three or four transactions with Cinstable Christie. Miss Kerr and Gharle3 Shaud owed him money, which be received through Christie. He summoned these people, and got the money through the coiirr. He did not pay Christie anything. Christie paid witness at his shop. Christie served Miss Kerr with an account and the summons, and he told her what witness was going to do. Christie had got money from some people without their being summoued In tliDse cases fac gave Christie an account, and when he brought tin? money ho gave him a receipt for it. It happened more than once ; Witness did not charge Christie with repairs to a pair of boots, because he tbouglit he had done witness a favour. That was all the recompense lie gave Christie. Witness asked Christie to collect the account because he thought his influence as a policeman would enable him to get it quicker than anyone else. Witness knew Christie wos cleik of the court. He knew the Government chaiged fees for money obtained through the court. No one told witness that Christie collected money.

To Mr Macdonald : Witaets knew that Constable Christie vould charge witness for any court fees if any had to be paid, but he did not remember if he paid Christie fees. He gave him authority to summons.

To Mr Taylor : Witness gave him authority to summons if he did not get the money. J. W. Mitchell, tailor, Balclutha, said that he never got money collected through Constable Christie. A man named Robertson owed him money and said that he paid Christie. Christie said he did not. Witness afterwards summoned Robertson and leceived the amount through the court. He never paid Christie any money and never did anything for him. To Commissioner Tunbridge : Witness did not suggest anything wrong ou the part of Constable Christie in connection with. Robertson's case.

To Mr Taj lor : Witness had had a conversation with Mr Macdonald about the case only ou geneial matters. MrMacdonald asked him what he was called for, and witness replied he did not know, that it was a was' c of tim*.

Michael Bercstone, tailor. Balclutha, gave evidence that he got judgment against a man and he asked Mr Christie to issue a judgment summons against him. Mr Christie did not do so, but subsequently paid witness the amount. He thanked him veiy much, and that was all. It was paid in witness's shop, but witness did not remember if he signed a receipt for it. Another time he sued Christie for a suit of clothes. The money had been owinc three monthai and wUneag

received judgment, Witness complained that defendant had not paid the solicitor's fee, which was afterwards paid Witness talked generally about the case to Christie. He asked Christie what was the meaning of their being summoned there that day, and Chrißtie replied he did not; know. He said he supposed they wanted to make a CAse out against him.

Mr Macdouald objected to Mr Taylor crossexamining witnesses.

The Chairman replied that Mr Taylor could cross-examine to the extent that was necessary. Mr Taylor had elicited the fact that his witness had been interviewed by the other side, and that was a very unusual, if not absolutely improper, proceeding. The Witness (continuing) said that the only account he received from Christie waa the first account he had referred to. He had not been speaking to people in Balclutha about Christie having collected accounts for him. Mr Taylor remarked that the witness was telling a wholly different story to what he had been saying in Ba'clutha. Alexander B. Henderson, builder, residing at Balclutha, stated that the night before Christmas 1893 a man wtnt along a Btreet, passing iv front of witness's gate. Mr Macdonald objected. He did not know ■what the witness was going to say. Christie was charged with collecting money on commission and with failing to protect the public from injury. The proper course was for Mr Taylor to state "the charge. Mr Taylor said that the charge was that Mr Christie failed to arrest a man who had been guilty of indecent behaviour at Balclutha. Mr Macdonald said that did not come within the present charges. Mr Taylor replied that it had to do with the latter part of the charge. The Chairman said that the matter mentioned forme i a new charge, aud fresh notice of it would have to be given.

Mr Taylor said that he would therefore issue a fresh notice formulating these and other charges against Christie.

Mr Maedonald : We are piepared to meet any charges if proper notice be given. Mr Taylor then gave notice of another charge against the constable — viz , that in 1593 he carried the dead body of a child iv a first-class carriage on the railways contnuy to tile regulations, thereby defrauding the revenue.

The charge preferred against the constable, and partly heaid at Bulekuha. that he failed to protect James Henry from mi siles thrown at kirn, was then resumed.

James Henry (continuing) said that ha had zo doubt that the constable did a good deal to work up the information till h'u (the witness's) letter appeared in the local paper commenting on tLe constable's inaction. He told Constable Christie that he had sent the letter to the paper, and Constable Christie said he should not have sent it, or som^thiog to that effect. Subsequently the-ccn-stable told him that the police, he thought, would not be able to take up the wse, and that he would have to lay an information hinuelf for assault. Wittiest t-'ld him he cuuld not afford the expense himself. There was no prosecution.

To Mr Macdonal'l: liis gr eyance against ConstaHe Christie was that he (witness) had reported to him that somebody had thrown rotten eggd at him. He admitted Constable Christie had to go an hour afterwards by the 4 o'clock tr.iin. He told the constable he had suspicions as to who were the offendeis. He did not know what the constable had done to wok up the case. He might have done a lot, but people eaid otherwise. Subsequently the - constable said the police could !>ot take it up, and he wanted witness to take it up. He admitted the evidence was not reliable. There were two factions there, but Mr Christie admitted that he (witness) acted independent of both. Witness hid no particular grievance against the constable. Us thought, however, ho had been hardly used, and theie wa3 a good Jot of sympathy with him, but people were afraid to show it. Mr George 'J'lKuuson, who was present in the room, wai not friendly with him, yet he had expressed himself wiilmg to subscribe towards a prosecution. Mr Thomson : That's right.

The case was then adjr.m-ncd. MrMacdonald said that with regard tothechargc as to the child, Mr Christie's child, a month old, died. Mr and Mrs Christie desiici that it should be buried in Dunedin. It was put in a coffin, and Mr and Mrs Christie brought it wrapped up in brown paper to Dunedin, coming ht-ie in a first class passenger car. It was his duty to make that admission.

Mr Taylor stated those were the facts. That kind of thing lowered the dignity of the constable. The constable hail told several people of it, and it; put him iuLo tha power of all t,nrtd of people. It was a breach of the railway regulations.

Ward George Wohlm&t), third c'ass constable at Dunedin, then appeared as a delegitf on behalf of the polics at Duuedin to present resolutions passed unanimously at a meeting of the police. He had spoken to as many as he could who were not present, and they had all assented to the resolutions, which were as follow :—: —

1. As the present crrnpuljnry insurance only effects one class of the New Zsalaud Police Force, we are of opinion that it is arbitrary and unfair, and recommend that it, be sJbolishpd, and that in its stead the Government bring in a pension scheme as in the other colonies.

2. That the rate of pay ai present— viz., £10 per month — bs ditpensed with, and that the old rate of 7s per day be rever' ed to.

3. That house allowance be granted to married constables.

4. That polics unifoim be pro\ ided free. 5. That the annual holiday leave be cumulative up to three years, when necessary, and that said annual leave be increased to 14 days.

6. That the present relieving allowance is insufficient, as married men only zeceive 3s per day, and single men Is Gd. 7. That some tin* form system of piomotion similar to that existing in th<» colonies of Victoria and New South Wales be introduced into the New Zealand Police Foice.

8. That the present system of long service pay extended to certain members of the New Zealand Police Force be made applicable to all men in the force.

9. That constables on leave be allowed to travel free on Government railway lines. 10. That the delegate to represent the foregoing and place same on behalf of the men before the Royal Commission be Constable Woklman.

In the course of further lemarks Constable Wohlman stated that a constable in New Zealand was expected always to be in possession of ready cash, for if he was sent on duty away fiom his distiict he has to pay his expenses out of his pocket, and he might not have it returned for two or three months after. Considerable amounts of money passed thiough the hands of country constables acting as clerks, and it was rsot conducive to the efficiency of the force that they should be in debt. With regard to uniforms supplied by the dcpattinent, the police suggested that they should not be supplied with "lop clothing, but the uniforms should be made to fit.

Commissioner Tunbridge said that there was sometr ing in this, and thought that the department should supply the material and allow the individual members to have it made up. Constable Wohlman (coutinuing) said that 14 days were recommended for the annual leave, and that this should be cumulative, if necessary, duiing a period of three years. Asylum officials and post office officials got three weeks. As to constables attending the court after beiDg on duty all night, no allowance was made to constables, and it became very trying when a man's sleep was broken into several days in succession. It tended to make constables neglect their duty— by not arresting drunken men, for instance— to avoid having to attend the court. Another recommendation was that constables on leave should be allowed to travel on the Government railways free. Constables on leave were oftentimes called upon to do duty. . Witness also stated that the relieving allowance was insufficient, and quoted figures in support of his statement. In reply to Commissioner Tunbridge, Witness thought that a man should be paid 7s a day ou joining-, and at the end of a year receive an additional Is per day if he be efficient. If he was not efficient he should be discharged. The maximum pay for a constable should be 9s, and he should attain that after six years' service. With that they would be as well paid as under the present astern. He thought that an anuual increincat

of 3d per diem and attaining the maximum fh eight years would be preferable. As to relieving allowance, a man should be refunded what he expended within a reasonable limit.

To Mr Taylor : There had been considerable dis« satisfaction regarding travelling allowance. Men formeily considered that political influence was neceEsaiy to promotion. Taat feeling had died away of lato Ths commission then adjourned till next day. The Police Commission resumed its sittings afc 10 o'clock on Wednesday, the 7th. ' The Hon. D. Pinkerton was the first witness called. He said he had been asked to sign a telegram to the Government asking that Oonstabls Matheson be given clerical work in the office to perform, but refused. He believed he had signed one telegiam, but refused to sign the second one. He had been approached by policemen and asked to use his influence to get them country stations. Several constables had appToached him, either personally or by their friends. The case of the telegrams was an isolated one. To Mr Poynton : He preferred seeing the present system retained, and the force retained under control of Government. By Commissioner Tunbridge : He received the applications in good grace, but did not encourage them.' He had not been approached during the past eight months. His efforts ou behalf of constibles had not always been attended with success. He had used his influence to get Constable Walker, stationed at Woodhaugh, retained in the service. Walker was "retained, but witness could not say that that was owing to his influence.

By Mr Taylor : In most ca3es where he used his influence he waited personally on the Minister in Wellington. He considered the Minister had power to override the commissioner. He had never been asked by brewers to try to get men shifted.

By Colonel Hume : Tie had had no communi* cation with Colonel Hume either verbally or in writiug since the commission commenced theie sitting. '

Constable J. D. Leece was then called to give evidence regarding the Meikle case. During Meikle's imprisonment witness was not frequently about Meiklo's premises. He was only there when on business — to serve summonses, and on the occasion of the death of young Meikle to sea if an inquest wa3 necessary. Meikle was in prison five years. In addition to the occasions mentioned he would have to call at the farm once a year to collect agricultural statistics and dog taxes. A rumour reached him once th.it Mr« Meikle was selling meat to some bridge contractors, and witness called on her and told her not to do so without having a license. He had never suggested to the f.umers that Mrs Meikle was stealing their sheep.

By Cotumiss-'oner Tuabridge : Abo it the time the letter was sent to the Minister stating that Mrs Meikle and her family were in a state of sta.vati -n, according to Mrs Meikle's statement; she was giving meat away to bridge contractors. Witness then proceeded to lay his own case ■before the commission. He said he was a secuiid-class coLstable stationed at South Dimedin. He joined the foice in 18S2 at Welling, ton, and served at Invercaivjil', Mataura (in, chaige), Ophir (in charge), aud then went to South Dunedin. There had been no complaints against him excepting on one occasion for being ou the railway station without hi 3 uniform— a circumstance that he could explain. He passed the police exam ins tion in IS9O. He had noticed that c.istable3 his juniors had been promoted ovtr L'm. Namr-s he could give were Norwood, M'Gil), Smith, O'llourke, Massh, Joyce, M'lntyre, and GiiffUhs. These men were now all first-class constables, -while witness remained second-class. In January, 189 f ', while at Ophir, he did not feel comfortable, aud applied to be removed, not expecting to be put to itieet duty, but to his surprise he was seDt to street duty in South Dunedin, being toM that as he vas unmarried he would have to do so. He was a widower, with five childien. He applied Co Mr Tunbridge, wha answered fiat constables in charge of stations should be married in* n who had their wives living with them. To Commissioner Tunbiidge : What he asked was that the rule be broken. He wan promoted to second class in June, 1890. Tha liate that Constable Forbes was advanced to second class, witness s?w by the hook», was the Ist September, 1888. Witness had been going by the men's nnmbtrs. Forbes was witness's ssnior in the second class. The priority of the men he had mentioned was to their second class, yeard ago. Colonel Hume called w itness's attention to the books to show that the men's numbers had piactically nothing to do with the matter. The matters of which witness complained seemed to date back from ISB3. Colonel Hume also said that Norwood had been M^cially promoted for saving life, and that M'Gill,* Smith, and O'Rourke had also beau specially promoted. Witness said, in answer to Mr Taylor, that he once lost a good station through influence — he did not know that it was political influence. He refeired io the time lie was afc Matauia, when o:dered to hold himself in readiness to go to Lumsden, but was not sent. Promotion out of order discouraged the men.

To t\xe Chairman : He did not kcow of a, siogle case where a single man or a widower was in charge of a station. He had heard that Constable Darby was a widower, but was not sure. Colonel Hume said that that constable had a suburban station where there was no lock-up. Commissioner Tunbridge observed that he had already told Leece that if a suitable suburban station became vacant he (the eotnmissionei) would consider Leece's case.

Alex. S. Adams, barrister, examined by Mr Taylor, saicl he remembered Sergeant Mulville being here in 1893 and 1894. That sergeant was active in bringing charges for breaches of the Xiicensing Act. An article appeared in the Liceuaed Victuallers' Gazette stating that if the sergeant was not careful Mr Seddon would be shifting him to the West Coast. Shortly afterwaids the sergeant was ordered to Napier. While ou a deputation to Mr Seddon witness mentioned Ssrgeant Muhille's case, called attentiou to the paragraph and the shift, and said it would be a hardship to remove a constable apparently for doing his duty. Mr Seddon replied that he did not know of the paragraph, and it was an improper one to publish, but Mr Seddon added that witness had given a good reason for the shift in that he was active against one section of the community. The impresson on witness's mind was that the sergeant's removal was the result of pressure by the liquor party. The lesult to Sergeant Mulville would be to discourage him iv his activity against breakers of the licensing laws. He had heard since, but did know it of his own knowledge, that since his removal to Napier the sergeant had not been so active. What he (Mr Adams) protested against to the Premier was the inteiference of the newspaper aud what apparently lay behind it. He knew the Clutha district pretty well, and had appeared in several liquor-Eelling cases there. The Chairman : On which side ?

Witness replied that it was for the prosecution in each case ; he had never been asked to defend.— (Laughter.) He found that exceptional difficulties arose in prosecuting iv such cases. He thought that Inspector Pardy had done all he could to enforce the law. From inquiries made he was convinced that the abolition of licenses had done an immense amount of good in the Clutha district. He thought that more frequent prosecutions would have a beneficial tffect. Colonel Hume : I wish, sir, before going any further, to protest once more against the conduct of Mr Taylor in the way he is examining his witnesses. Here we have a very seiious charge, or what appears to be a very serious charge, brought against me. Mr Taylor : What charge ? Colonel Hume : The removal of Sergeant Mulville.

Mr Taylor : It is not a charge against you ; it is against Ministers.

Mr Adams : Mr Seddon told us that he was entirely vesp nsible for these matters. The Chanman: You have a right to examine him.

Colonel Hume said that he would like to ask !iis questions in the afternoon, after reading the papers.

To Mr Poynton : He did not know tliat it would Le better to increase the force in the Clutha, but he thought it would be an advantage to employ for odd visits men who were unknown, so as to prevent their movements being signalled.

To Commissioner Tunbridge : He would not like to say that there were cases in which the police had the necessary evidence and did not take action. He had heard rumours to that effect, but would not give them the force of a statement on oath. His suggestion as to the employment of unknown men was based only on outside knowledge. He could not pretend to know all that had been done.

It was arranged that the witness should be examined by Colonel Hume in the afternoon.

Sergeant Conn, in reply to Mr Taylor, referred I to the case of a constable who was under the in- •■ fluence of liquor while on duty at the Rattrsiy J street corner. The constable's name was Mac- ! donald. "Witness called the attention of Con- j stable Hannafm (who was on the adjoining beat) j to the isatter. He asked Constable Hannafin if j Constable Macdonald were drunk or sober. Con- i stable Hannafin said : "If you say he was drunk ' I will say he wa3 sober." That meant that the j constable would swear Macdonald was sober eveu j if he was satisfied he was drunk. As soon as ! Constable Hannafin's back was turned witness i went to Inspector Pardy's place, and told him i what had occurred. Inspector Pardy came down, and ordered Constable Macdonald to be removed in a cab. Inspector Pardy then sent for Constable Hannafin, and admonished him for his conduct. Macdonald was fined for being drunk. Witness feared the untruthfulueps of Hannafiu. Witness had been in the force for 26 years. If witness had joined the New South Wales force his position would have been better, in New South Wales he would have been able to retire on full pay after 25 years. There vas a better feeling, he thought, amongst the men during the past s>x months. B.id men had been weeded out, and there was a better class of men here now. One discontented man made a lot of others discontented. The whole of the force here were practically new men. There were two or three men who had seen two or three yeare' service, and there were others who had been here for only a few weeks. Tlie absence of a superannuation fund was detrimental to the force. If he had not a large family jie would have left long ago. Inspector Weldou had told him when he joined that there was a retiring allowance of a month's pay for each year <)f service. He had heard talk of political influence in all ways. The drafting of men from ; the artillery was bad. Soldiers did not make good policemen. { Mr Taj lor : They are recruiting largely from the outside now. Witness (continuing) : He did not think the better feeling 'was due to change of control. There was a new class of men down here now. To Commissioner Tunbridge : It was the rule to call a medical man in cases of doubt as to whether a man was drunk or not. His plan had been always to call in the inspector or a superior offioer. Inspector Pardy was close handy at the time. There was a feeling that one constable should not be called upon to give evidence against j another. He did not think that New South j Wales police duty was more arduous than here owing to the climate. This was the woist climate i in the world for police duty, barring the Home climate, Night duty in Duuediu was moat severe. The winter before last he went out with nine young, strong fellowe, and before the fortnight was out five only were left. The force benwas undermanned. There ought to be nine ires on the street instead of seven. Each day relic: should be increased by one man and the night by two men. Very often there were two and three short. They required a reserve of four or c five men. Altogether the force should be in- | creased by nine men. They did not require any increase of seigeants. He thought it would be a big improvement if there was a sergeant in i charge at the police station. .After a quarter to 9 I at niaht the whole of the town was left in charge j of one man, and the responsibility was too gnat | for the amount of pay received. A first-class j sergeant should be iv the barracks at night time, i It was a great responsibility for a sergeant to have nine young constables wholly inexperienced out j on duty, none of whom he could tiust two or J three miles put of his sight. i To Colonel Hume : Witness did his duty in ) enforcing the Licensing Act. He saw the - ''Licensed Victuallers' Gazette," but he did not see his name there. An hotelkeeper had laid a charge against him six months ago for undue iuterftrence. It was investigated before Mr Carew, S.M., and dismissed. Witness did not think any influential person had tried to get him shifted on , account of his efforts in connection with the Licensing Act. The case against Constable Christie was then continued. John Angus was called. Mr Macdonald said before the commission proceeded with the case he wished to make an ex- j planation. He noticed in the papers that Mr i Taylor had made a statement before the commission regarding Mr Macdonald and some witnesses, and behind vis (Mr Macdonald's) back. The chairman had also expressed an opinion that it was a very irregular proceeding. The Chairman thought that Mr Macdonald was present. Mr Macdonald said he was net. He explained that he had told the commission on the day previous that notice had not been served on Constable Christie of tho impending charges, but if he (counsel) got half an hour in which to consult his witnesses he might he able to proceed. This was assented to, and he examined hi 3 witnesses. None of Mr Tayloi's witnesses were present at all. Mr Taj'lor : I -did not interview my witnesses at all. When I saw thera in close communication with Mr Macdonald I thought it was a, very improper proceeding. Mr Macdonald absolutely denied Mr Taylor's allegation. He was simply, in the ordinary course of conduct;, examining his witnesses in order that lie might be able to proceed. The Chairman : Mr Taylor said that his witnesses were being examined one by one by you. Mr Macdonald : That is absolutely untrue. I object to these statements behind my back. Mt Taylor : You have been publicly charged rritb suborning witnesses. , Mr Macdonald : I know you have beeu charged with libelling a man at Mataura and fined £50. Your friends paid the fine, and you want to continue that line down here. John Angus (continuing) said that he knew Mr Campb-.11, of Catlins. His wife had worked there, and while she was there she broke her leg. He wrote to the owner of the property (Mr Campbell waß only the manager) claiming compeusa- ( tion. Mr John Reilly, the owner, wrote back stating that Campbell was willing to pay £15, but Mr Keilly added that there was no legal claim as witness's wife had given her services gratuitously. Subsequently Mr George Ford, on behalf of Mr Campbell, offered eleven guineas, i which witne.ss agreed to accept. Subsequently t Constable Christie paid witness £3. Dr Smith i told witness that Constable Christie had paid him £8 for professional services in connection with the accident. Dr Smith's bill was £11, but be accepted £8 in full payment of the claim. Witness never received the balance of lls. Ho spoke to Christie about it once or twice, but he did not remember what was said. Constable Christie said he would pay him the lls agai". When the eleven guineas was offered by Ford, Constable Christie told him he ought to accept it or he would get nothing. The accident happened about three years ago. Witness did not authorise the constable to collect the amount. In reply to Mr Taylor as to an account witness had owed to Mr Ross, -blacksmith, of Clarksville, Witness said he could not sppak with certainty of the case. Witness had paid Constable Christie 10s on account of Mr Ross, and his wife said she Lad paid £1, but he could not speak of that. He paid the money to Christie at an hotel. He had jio refreshment there. Witness told Christie that there was lls standing between them, and as far as he remembered the constable said that he wanted that for his trouble. ' Mr Taylor : That is exactly the answer I expected to get. {• Mr Macdoaald j You worked him u» to that

Mr Taylor : I have been to Balclutha, Mr Macdonald.

Mr Macdonald : Yes ; and to Christchurch, too. A delightful way of examining witnesses I

Mr Poynton : That will do. Mr Macdonald: Oh, I am quite equal to him. He speaks behind my back in a most cowardly way. I Witness (continuing) : Christie said in respect of Ross's account that Mr Ross had told him to speak to witness about it. I To Mr Macdonald : Witness did not authorise ! Christie to get the money from Campbell. Witness told him to pay Dr Smith. He came to witness with the cheque and asked witness what he was going to do with it. He Baid to him, "You pay Dr Smith £3 and give me the balance." Constable Christie told witness that the cheque was 11 guineas. Witness did not see the cheque. The j cheque, he said, was for 11 guineas — not £11. Witness made a statement to the effect that he j did not come there with his own free will. Mr Taylor : You did not. Witness added that his child was very ill, and I his wife had to give it unremitting attention. A i doctor's certificate to that effect wa3 handed in. I On resuming after the luncheon adjournment, ! A. S Adams was recalled and examined by ', Colonel Hume. Witness did not know if Sergeant I Mulville was a prohibitionist. He would be surI prised to hear that he was. Witness would not i be sin prised to hear that the sergeant had been ; removed from Napier for displaying too much energy. He was an active man, but he thought Inspector Pardy would admit that he did no more than his duty. Ha would be surprised to hear that this energeticman in IS9I was reprimanded for notreporting adiaturbance in the Provincial Hotel. He would also be surprised to hear that he was drinking at a subsequent date at the St. Clair Hotel on Sunday. Witness knew Mr Hart, of Anderson's Bay. Ke did not know that Sergeant Mulville had baen reprimanded for disclosing official secrets. Mr Hedion hinted that the publicans did not want" Sergeant Mulville at Niipier, yet he was sent there. To Mr Taylor : The liquor interest was stronger in Dunedin than in Napier, and hence a politician might s^udy Dunedin interests more than Napier. The case against Constable Christie was then resumed. Mr Taylor said he wished to make a statement in connection with the evidence that had been taken so far in ChristVs cise. # He was informed that Mr Angus, a witness, was interviewed by MiGeorge Thomson, a justice of the peace, at Balclutha. ! The Chairman : This is not evidence. It is a statement. Mr Macdonald : Suppose it is true, Christie can not be held liable. Mr Taylor : I will state my facts. The Chairman : You have not stated your facts. I can fcpeak quite as loud as you can. Don't let us have a trial of lung power here. John Angus (recalled) said that he spoke to Harry Pattetson about Christie's case after he came to Dunedin. Mr Macdonald : Is this relevant? The Chairman : 1 have stopped it. Mr Taylor : Did you see Mr Thomson ? Mr Poynton : Was Christie there 1 The Chairman : You must get the facts of the case out. Mr Taylor (to witness) j^Did George Thomson give you lls ? Witnets : That has nothing at all to do with the matter. The Chairman : It cannot be given in evidence against Christie. Mr Macdonald : Christie heard that Thomson was interfering, and he sent him word informing him not to interfere on his behalf. Mr Taylor : Does that make it any more possible to gets facts in ? Mr Macdonald : Christie is nob responsible for Thomson. ! After further argument the Chairman allowed Mr Taylor to ask witness if he received 11s from Thomson. '• Witness : I got the money for a short time. I i gave it to him back. | Mr Macdonald : That is so. When it came to I Christie's knowledge he told Thomson not to interfeie. Mr Taylor : How long elapsed between the time you received the money and handed it back 1 Witness : Five minute?. Mr Taylor: Who did you talk to in tbe interval ? : Witness : Three or four people. Mr Taylor : Has Dr Smith seen you about this case? Mr Macdouald : I object. Do you say for one single moment that this is a relevant question, Mr Chairman ? Mr Taylor : This is a fair question. Did you , have any conversation with Dr Smith about the lls? Witness : Not about the 11s. Have you had any conversation with Dr Smith about the case?— No. Not since I received tho summons. How long before that, then ? Has Dr Smith j urged you not io attend this commission ? S Mr Macdouald objected to the question. George Thomson was then called. He said he was a justice of ths peace at 13*1 clutha. He offered to pay Angus lls, but he would not take it. He was not authorised by Constable Christie to pay this amount. Angus wanted conditions, and witness would not agree to them. Mr Macdouald objected to all these questions, and the Chairman upheld the objection. In reply to further questions, Witness said he had not spoken to Christie in the matter. No one saw him on Christie's behalf. He was told not to interfere. A messenger cams to him to tell him that, but he did not know from whom the messenger came. He did not know if he came from a lawyer or a lawyer's clerk. John Campbell, farmer, Cannibal Bay, said he paid Dr Smith's account for dSll lls, but he took off the shillings. Dr Smith did not tell witness, but Mr Christie, to whom he gave the money, said that Dr Smith did not want the extra shillings. He got a receipt from Dr Smith for £U lls. He gave_ Constable Christie £11. He also got a receipt from Mr Apgus. There was a memo, on the back of Dr Smith's receipt which he received in 1893 comprising the words, " Reduced by lls, per favour of Dr Smith." He wrote that memo, on the preceding night. He paid the money to Chribtie in cash. Mr Taylor : Did any one tell you that this j question of lls was coming up to-day ? j Me Macdonald : I object lo that. r The Chairman : You are not bringing it out the proper way. Was Chiistie present ? Mr Taylor : How did you know ths question of lls was coming up to-day ? Witness replied that he was careful what he said on oath, and wished to be fully armed with all particulars. He produced another receipt for ! j£ll lls signed Mr and Mra Angus, which witness j said he got from Mr Geo. Ford. He did not have a conversation lately with Dr ftrnith. He never Rave Constable Christie £11 lls. He had. not been speaking to Mr Macdonald, Mr Christie, or Mr Solomon's clerk about the ca3e. Neither of I the documents were made up a week ago. He re- \ ceived them shortly after he made the payments. 1 Mr Macdonald submitted that Mr Taylor was ' going beyond all bounds. His procedure seemed to be that he called his witnesses, and then, when he got evidence he did not like, he proceeded to tross examine them at great length. The Chairman said that that was so, and it arose out of Mr Taylor's ignorance of the rules of examination. j Continuing, Witnesß said that he had no con- ! versation with Christie as to why he should be ! paid on behalf of Dr Smith and Angus. He did j not authorise Christie to see Angus about the I matter. To Mr Macdonald : He gave Christie £11. He knew that Dr Smith's bill was £11 lls. Witnees did not remember his saying to Constable Christie that he would not pay the extra lls unless he was forced to. He thought Dr Smith was going to knock off the 11s. He thought that the matter was to be settled by the payment of £11. He knew for the first time to-day that Dr Smith only got £8. John Angus (recalled) produced a receipt for £11 Us signed by himself and his wife, which he gave to Christie. He said he would take it to Campbell and get the money, but he did not get it. Adam Patersou, farmer, Catlin's River, said Constable Christie never collected any money for him, IS connection with a pvjm. vf £fi $s, he fiujd.

one George Banington. Constable Christie was clerk of tlie court. He deposed that he summoned three persons, who confessed judgment and paid the inonev into the cou>-t, but he did not get the money until after the constable went to Mosgiel. He wrote to the constable, but he did not know what he said in the letter. He wrote to Christie twice.

Mr Macdonald objected to the witness stating the subject matter of the letters.

Witness (continuing) said that he wrote with the object of getting the money.

Mr Macdonald objected to all these questions, as being an attempt to get at the contents of the letter. Mr Taylor had had some experience of court work, and he ought to know better.

The Chairman : It is simply through ignorance he is asking such questions. Mr Macdonald : He has had experience and paid for it.

Witness, in reply io Mr Solomon, said he did not know the date of the court proceedings. He got the money from Mr Christie, and he did not pay him any commission.

To Mr Taylor : Witness did not know if he paid the constable the fees for issuing summonses. He got his money paid in full. He may have paid the fees, hut did not think so..

Constable Griffiths, clerk of couit at Balclutka, produced the records of the court. One case was entered February 4. 18%', and on March 11 it was settled out of court. The amount was £8 2-s 6d, and costs 53. Constable Christie was clerk of the court then He ceased to be so in 1890. No traces of three other cases referred to by the last witness were to be found in the court recouls. There was no record of these people being summoned.

Dr Smith, medical practitioner at Balclutha, in reply to Mr Taylor, eaid he was on the commission of the peace. He thought the police did all they possibly could to enforce the licensing law since the abolition of licenses. They succeeded fdirly. There had not been a great increase in order and | sobriety at Balclutha. Balclutha was never a ; very drunken place. He remembered a Mrs ' Angus breaking her leg. Hia account' was £11 j lls. He gave tke account lo Mr Christie, telling j him to foiward it to Mr Campbell. lie never spoke to the Angus people. He knew he would get nothing out of them. They were in his debt for a large amount; previous to that. He told Christie that in the event of his getting the money he could give £3 to Angus, who was hard up. He received £8. He could not say if lie gave a receipt for 3g-?. He told Christie lo knock off the lls. Christie j gave him £8 in noies. He knew Mr Ramage and I Mr Henry, of Balclutha. He did not, give Christie j a farthing. Christie retained nothing from him. | Christie was going down to Catlin's River, and he j asked him to render the account. j Mr Macdonald : I object to this. Mr Taylor lias called the doctor. He has got his evidence, I and now he is proceeding to cross-examine him. j The doctor has given his evidence in a straight- j forward way. . Witnees (continuing) : He had no idea if it were part of Constable Christie's duty to collect . debts for private persons. Mr Dabinett, a justice j of the peace in Balclutha, had collected money for j witness without remuneration. He told Angus , he would get £3 if he (witnes>)got the inonoy. j Christie did not collect another farthing for wit- j ness. Witness spoke to Campbell once about it, ! but made no arrangements with him to pay. | Mr Taylor : I will ask the witness who he has i spoken to about the case this afternoon. ! Mr Macdonald : I object to that. He is trying to make his witnesses out as liars. Is the court to tolerate that ? j Mr Taylor : I am in this fix : these witnesses are adverse. Mr Macdonald : That only proves Mr Taylor has been misinformed. Witness (continuing) said he didn't remember if he had a conversation with Christie when he paid over the money. "Witness did not know to whom he had sent a receipt to which his signa- j ture was attached. Witness did not tell Angu.3 ] not to come up to JJunedin. He had not spoken j to Paterson about the case. He remembered a : prosecution against Vial for sly grog-selling. j The Chairman : Is this another case? You had better finish Christie's case. Mr Taylor : That is all the questions I will ask. , Witness (continuing) said that Angus told witnesf tb.3t Christie had retained 30s. MV Tnvior : I think you have put your foot in it, Mv Macdonall (To witnes? :) Are you not imstakeu ? Did he not say it was from Ross ? Witness : He did not. He did not mention Ross's name. He had had a conversation with Christie about the case. . Mr Taylor then proceeded to examine witness as to another case. He remembered Vial's prosecution. He was a voluntary witness in that. Mr Taylor : Did you not admit in that cass j Mr Macdonald : I object. Don't answer that question. i Mr Taylor : Are you acting for Dr Smith ? ! Mr Macdonald : Yes. Mr Taylor : All through ? Mr Macdonald : Yes. Don't answer that question, Dr Smith. j Mr Taylor : I will ask the question if the doctor has not admitted having had grog in slygrog shanties. I Mr Macdonald : I object. Don't answer that. Dr Smith : I will not answer it. Mr Taylor (to the chairman) : Are you not inquiring into the question as to whether "the police are enforcing the law at Balclutha? The Chairman : Yes. Mr Taylor : And the reason why they are not ? The Chairman : No. Mr Macdonald : Supposing Mr Taylor had been drinking in a sly-grog shanty, does that stop the police from enforcing the law ? The Chairman : I can't allow you to ask any question calcul ited to throw doubt on your own witness, unless he is proved to be hostile. Mr Taylor made a remark to the effect that Dr Smith was a credit to Balclutha. The Chairman (to Mr Taylor) : You are taking advantage of your position to insult the witnesses. — (The remark was received with applause.) Constable Dales, assistant clerk at Dunedin, gave evidence as to his duties and the wage 3he received. Constable Griffiths also appeared to make suggestions as to promotions, and also as to pensions. ! Inspector Pardy (recalled) said, in answer to ! Commissioner Tunbridge, that there were fully j 30 persoas outside of the police working in the j Clutha prohibition distiict within the past three years and eight months. There were 79 prosecutions and 2t5 convictions, and £645 was the aggregate amount of penalties imposed. After a conviction all would be on their guard, and vigilance was not lelaxed for a long time. The department at Wellington had given every consideration to every suggestion he made to detect the sly grog-.sellcr«. He had devoted to the matter of detecting sly grcg-sellevs the whole of his brain-power. He had been planning how to detect the sly grog-s,ellera hours and hours when he ought to have been asleep. It had caused him a great amount of worry, and his life had been anything but pleasant to him of late. The department had granted all the monetary aid required. It had been a great tax to the department. Constable Wohlman reappeared to give evidence regarding the proposal to allow constables to get off duty a whole day on Sunday occasionally. lie also spoke of the extra expense incurred by constables when on plain-clothes duty. He suggested that a special plain-clothes allowance be made. Commissioner Tunbridge thought there was a good deal in the suggestion. Constable Bingham, stationed at South Dunedin, appeared to support a letter he had sent to the commission theft his wages should be increased to what he used to get when he worked as a labourer. He earned 7s a day as a labourer, and got £10 a month when he joined the force. He

The Police Commission resumed its sittings at 10 o'clock on Thursday morning, Mr H. B. Wardell, S.M. (chairman), and Mr J. W. Poynton, S.M., being present. Mr Macdonald appeared on behalf of Constable Christie, against whom certain charges had been made ; Colonel Hume, ex-commissioner of police, was pressnfc on behalf of the department ; and Mr T. B. Taylor, M.H.R., attended during the early portion of the proceeding?.

The defaulter's sheet o? Constable Walker, late of Woodhaugh Valley, was put in, showing four entries between the years 1878 and 1891.

James Hogg deposed that ho knew that Constable Christie had made active inquiries to find out the offenders in the egg-throwing cases at Balclutba.

To Mr Taylor : It was a general topic of conversation who the suspected persons were. They were people who would back each other up and throw the blame upon others. He was friendly with Constable Christie.

Father O'Neill, Catholic priest at Milton, deposed that Baiclutha was in his district. He knew Constable Christie when that officar was there. He had frequent opportunities of judging how Christie carried out his duties. Considering the exceptional circumstances of tho place, he thought he did his duty in a remarkably (fficient manner. He remembered the egg-throwing incident, and could say that he was energetic in trying to get hold of the offender?. He had had occasion once to put Constable Christie's office in motion for the purpose of getting back a flag i-.hat had been stolen from a bazaar at Baiolutha. Christie was successful in getfcicg the flag returned, but at witness's request no prosecution was instituted.

To Mr Taj lor : He liad frequently seen Christie at M'Corley's Railway Hotel at Balclutha. That v»a3 whore witness usually stayed when at Balcluthti. Once or twice he saw Christie there on business, and at other times he supposed Chr'stia wa3 there on his own duliss. He had aeen Christie there before tho license was taken away.

To Mr Macdonald : There were two factions in Balcluth* — Prohibitionietß and Moderates. People friendly with the Moderale party incurred the displeasure of the Prohibitionist party, and vice- versa. Although there was a majority who wera in favour of prohibition there was a strong minority who were very much opposed to it, and considered that it was a i?fery groat hardship to them to live under the existing state of affairs. Th&t was the opinion expressed by all he had spoken to on the subject. He had had no conversation with Christie in regard to the matter under inquiry. He might say that Christie was not a "pember of the Roman Catholic community.

James Hogg (recalled) corroborated Father O'Neill's evidence regarding the opposing factions in Balelutha and the dissatisfaction at present existing. He was on the prohibitionside when that was carried dome years ago, but h» was opposed to it now. He had seen that it was not a success.

Andrew Christie, second class constable, stationed ct Mosgiel, was examined by Mr Macdonaid. He deposed that lie was at Baldutha from 1891 to 1896. No-liceo«e was carried in June, 1894-. There was considerable feeling at the time the vote was taken, and it continued tp exist during the remainder of witness's residence in the town. For that reason it was very difficult to suppress sly grog ■■selling. The sympathies of a great many people were in favour of sly gcog-aellere, and they used their influence to thwart the police. It was more difficult to get witnesses in tly-grog cases than in any other class of case 3. A ceusfcable who was energetic in opposing sly grog-selling incurred the bad feeling of many of the townspeople. He had great trouble to get witnesses to stick to their first statements. He adopted a system of getting witnesses to make a written statement ; but even this was not successful, for often they would not stick to their statements when put into the witness box. Notwithstanding these difficulties, he had been fairly successful in obtaining convictions. He had obtained four convictions against Moir and convictions against Anderson and Guest. He thought that where the circumstances permitted it Mr Hawkins was very severe on sly grog-sellere. In the case against Anderson he incurred a good deal of odium by bringing three justices of the peace as witnesses, but he did his duty without fear or 'favour. He got a conviction against a storekeeper named Guest, who was one of the leading prohibitionists in the town. In addition to the efforts made by himself, a number of men were sent down from town in disguise in order to obtain convictions. As a constable he found it very difficult to hold the balance evenly between the two factions in the district. He had been 13 years and six months in the service and had a clean defaulter's ssrvice, but there were a number of entries in his merit sheet. He did not believe that Mr Duano had boastpd that he had got witness removed from Balclutha. Witness was (hen examined in detail upon the charges which had baen made against him. Witness told Henry in the latter's case that if he would lay an information witness would give him all the assistance in his power. In Ramage's case the evidence at the disposal ot the witness would not secure a convsclion. It was not true that on one occasion witness obtained 2a from Ramage for collecting a bad debt. Witness was in doubt as to whether Ramage offered him the money, but he was quite clear that he never got it. No complaint had been made against him in connection with these ensea from the time they happened until the charges were brought now, and no complaint had been made against him by any other inhabitant at Balclutha. With regard to the charge brought by Angu3, witness only received fill, and in pursuance of an arrangement entered into between Dr Smith, Campbell, and Augui witness handed £8 to Dr Smith and £3 to Angus. Dr Smith asked if witness would oblige him by bringing the £11 from Owaka, whero witness was going on police duty. Dr Smith handed him a receipt to give to Campbell and eaid thai; though the account was for Hgß witness was notj to mind about thes lls, but was to geb £11. Witness never told Angus that he wrs going to keep* the lls for his trouble.

To Colonel Hume : Witness did not collect the money for Ramage. Burley met him on the street and said that Ramage was going to sue him, and if witness would settle_ the debt for him he (Burley) would square with him afterwards. There was no delay in paying over money that came into his hands in cases that were eettled out of court. The money was always paid over on the next day. He had never taken any commies'ion at all or a present for collecting money.

Colonel Hume ; What was your object in mixing yourself up in money matters in cases which did not come before you as clerk of the court ?

Witness said it was to oblige the doctor, as he was going to Catlins. With regard to sly is, the Clufcba, hi* eueeestioas to

tha inspector were invariably carried out, an« he was not thwarted in any way. - c To the Chairman : In the cases mentioned bjj the witness Patorson on the previous day ,thai money was paid over without delay, and Paterj son, after giving evidence before the com* mission, admitted to witness that he had made a mistake in his evidence.

The sittings of the commission in punediot were then concluded, the Chairman directing the secretary to write to the mayor conveying the thanks of the commission for th^e ÜBS 0? thf room in which it had eat. " -