LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL

Otago Witness, Issue 1812, 13 August 1886, Page 12

LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL

Wednesday, August 4.

IN COMMITTEE. The Council in committee resumed at 7.30. The Hon. Mr Miller occupied the chair for Captain Baillie, the subject being the consideration of the Mining Bill. Several clauses were postponed and some immaterial amendments were agreed to. Progress was reported, leave being granted to sit again. INSPECTING THE RECORDS. It was decided that a committee of the House of Representatives should be permitted to inspect the journals of the Council relative to the Gold Duty Abolition Bill and Gold Duty Reduction Bill. The inspection, it was resolved, should take place next day. THE LOAN BILL. The Hon. Mr REYNOLDS, on the Order of the Day for the second reading of theNewZealand Loan Bill being called on, moved — " That the order be postponed and made an order for the following day." Relating to the motion, which was agreed to, Sir F. WHITAKER gave notice of moving the following contingent motion : — " That the bill be referred to a select committee to ascertain whether tho sevoral railways specified in the schedule have been authorised by special act as required by law ; also as to any of the said rail-

ways that are not new, as to the state of the works thereon, and to report fully thereon to the Council ; the committee to consist of Messrs Holmes, Pollen, Johnston, Miller, Menzies, Reynolds, Shephard, Wilson, and the mover ; the committee to have power to call for persons, papers, and records, and to report on or before Monday next."

Thursday, August 5. The Council met at 2.30 p.m. THE LOAN BILL.

The Hon. Mr REYNOLDS moved the second reading of the Loan Bill, and in so doing said he hoped the bill would be passed without delay in view of the session being so far advanced.

Sir F. WHITAKER objected to the bill on account of no special authorisation for the construction of some of the lines in the bill having been made by Parliament. He desired it should be ascertained whether the construction of the lines of railways mentioned in the bill had been authorised. He desired it to be thoroughly understood that he did not object so much to the loan as he did to the lines of railways, which he considered had not been authorised.

The Hon. Mr BUCKLEY said the Government had no desire to burden the country with the cost of construction of railways unless such construction was demanded by the country. He was quite convinced that with the exception of one line— that of Helensville-Auckland— each of the other lines mentioned in the bill had been specially authorised. He believed that the bill was asked for and was required by the country. The Hon. Mr MILLER, while he did not for a moment mean to say that the Stout Government were more corrupt than any former Governments, yet objected to the bill, as in his opinion it might open the door to bribery. He contended that the construction of lines of railways amounting to nearly half-a-million of money which would never repay interest on the money borrowed amounted to bribery. He regretted to say there was nothing to tempt yeomen of England to settle in New Zealand at present. It was absurd to talk about the illimitable resources of the colony. The resources of the • colony were, he admitted, illimitable ; but if some of the lines mentioned in the schedule of the bill w^re constructed, it would, he feared, be very soon found that the resources of the colony would be very much curtailed, and that to the very serious deterioration of the State.

The Hon. Mr REYNOLDS replied, and in the course of his remarks said his experience led him to state that the Colonial Treasurer was, instead of being an extravagant Treasurer, the most economical Colonial Treasurer he had known.

On the question for the second reading of the bill being put, Sir F. WHITAKER moved as an amendment that the bill be referred to a select committee to ascertain (1) whether the several railways specified in the schedule have been authorised by special act as required bylaw; (2) also, as to aßy of the said railways that are not new, the state of the works thereon, and to report fully thereon to the Council; the committee to consist of nine members — Messrs Holmes, Johnston, Miller, Pollen, Menzies, Reynolds, Shephard Wilson, and the mover.

* After discussion, the question for the second reading of the bill was negatived on division by 20 to 17, and the amendment was agreed to.

Friday, August 6. IN COMMITTEE.

The Public Bodies' Leaseholds Bill was committed on the motion of the Hon. P. Buckley, who expressed the opinion that the bill was desired by public bodies.

Clause 2 was amended slightly. A division ensued on the amendment proposed by Sir F. Whitaker to strike out clause 13, which gives power to adopt certain parts of " The Land Act 1885." The clause was retained on a division by 18 to 9. The bill was reported with amendments.

GOVRENMENT LOANS TO LOCAL BODIES BILL.

The Hon Mr REYNOLDS moved the second reading of the Government Loans to Local Bodies Bill, and in so doing remarked that it would be unnecessary for him to enlarge on tho motion, as the bill was, with some slight exceptions, the same bill as was set aside by the Council a few days ago. The Hon. Mr -HOLMES considered that the Council would be wanting in its duty if clause 37, dealing with the appropriation of funds by the Treasury, was agreed to. He should, when the bill was in committee, move that the clause so far as it is related to the appropriation of funds derived from post-office revenues be expunged. The Hon. Mr REYNOLDS moved that the bill be committed without any delay, but after discussion withdrew his motion, and the bill was orded to be committed on Monday next.

OTHER BILLS. The North Island Trunk Loan Appropriation Bill was committed and reported with amendments, read a third time, and passed. The Beer Duty Bill was committed, and progress was reported, leave being given to sit again. The Civil Service Reform Bill and Deceased Persons' Estates Duties Bill were read a third time and passed.

The Mining Bill was further considered in committee. Clauses 80, 81, and 82, dealing with miners' rights, were postponed. Progress was reported and leave given to sit again. The Registration of Deeds Bill was read a second time.

Monday, August 9. ' The Council met at 2.30 p.m. THE LOAN BILL.

Sir F. WHITAKER brought up the report of the Select Committee^ appointed to inquire into the allocation to certain railways of portions of the loan proposed to be raised by authority of the House of Representatives. The following is the substance of the report : — " (1.) That all the railways in the schedule appear to have beeu specially authorised by act with the exception of the Helensville line extending northwards. Only four miles, however, of the proposed ex tension has been authorised. The extension proposed is from Helensville .to Omapere Lake. (2.) The committee is of opinion that a separate act of authorisation should precede every grant of money, otherwise the appropriation would be nugatory. According to the evidence of the Under-secretary of Public Works, a bill has been presented to the House of Representatives, to authorise such extension of the Helensville line to Omapere. (3.) By the same bill it was proposed to authorise a line to the Oamaru breakwater. No sum appeared in the schedule for this line. (4.) The object of the bill appeared to be to authorise another railwayand make good the land taken for another work. (5.) The names in the schedule are not the same as those in the authorising acts, and a question would arise as to whether a line could be identified. It might become a question to decide in the Supreme Court if anyone should take the trouble

to raise the question as to the identification of such lines. £150,000 of the sum proposed to be raised would be for sidings and not for construction of main lines. It was proposed to use as far as possible materials already in hand for the construction of scheduled lines. The function of the committee was entirely to determine whether the law had been complied with, which was a function entirely apart from consideration of a money bill; and the Council •would not be doing its duty by voting for a work ■which was not properly authorised by law." The report was adopted and ordered to be printed. The Hon. Mr REYNOLDS moved that the bill be committed presently, although not on the Order Paper. In committee the report could be discussed. He would not move the third reading till the following day, and believed that under the .circumstances, and as the session was so far advanced, added to the additional fact that the Calif ornian mail would leave on Saturday next, he hoped the motion would be agreed to. The SPEAKER intimated that, under the circumstances, there was no reason why the motion should not be agreed to. The bill was ordered to be committed presently.

OTHER BILLB.

The Government Loans to Local Bodies Bill 2) was committed, reported, read a third time, and passed. The House considered the amendments in the Sheep Act. The amendments in the bill were agreed to by the Council. The Mining Bill was further considered in committee, and reported with amendment. The Hon. Mr BUCKLEY moved the third reading of the Public Bodies' Leaseholds Bill. Sir F. WHITAKER objected to the bill, as it sought to make a number of changes in the existing act, jwithout >giving anything as an equivalent for it. The Hon. Mr BUCKLEY trusted the third reading would be agreed to, as it was a measure which he felt assured would provide for the benefit of public bodies and the public at large. The Hon. Dr POLLEN intended to oppose the third reading. What he objected to in the bill was that exceptional advantages to tenants of public bodies would not be extended to Crown pastoral tenants. The Hon. Mr M'LEAN, whilst admitting that many persons who ought to be relieved from their liabilities had been badly treated, objected to the bill as it sought to give relief to shameless persons who, instead of trying to get rid of their liabilities by making use of their leases, availed themselves of lobbying members in order to get the Government to bring in a public bill for their own private relief. The Hon. Mr REYNOLDS did not like the bill as it had been introduced into the Council, and therefore he had refrained from taking any part in the previous discussion on it. However, he felt convinced that if the bill did not become law, many of the public bodies would lose Government tenants and the latter would be ruined. He would not object to the bill being recommitted with a view to being amended, but rather than the bill should be lost he would vote for the third reading.

After further discussion, the amendment was lost on the voices, and motion for the third reading was carried by 16 to 14, and the bill passed. The Beer Duty Bill was committed, reported with verbal amendment, and read a third time and passed. The Council agreed with certain verbal amendments in the Coal Mines Bill.

Tuesday, August 10. The Council met at 2.30 p.m. BILLS.

The Mining Bill was read a third time and passed.

The Registration of Deeds and Instruments Bill was' further considered in committee, reported with amendments, read a third time, and passed.

The Hon Mr BUCKLEY in moving the second reading of the Government Life Insurance Bill remarked that it was the outcome of a resolution passed by shareholders of the association, which had also been recommended by a select committee of the House. The bill really, with one or two exceptions, sought to place the association almost identically in its original position,

The Hon. Mr M'LEAN did not object to the second reading, as he was one of those policyholders who had voted for the association returning to the management of the Government. He believed the late board had terribly bungled in its management. He objected to the present management, as he believed that very bad freehold securities had nearly been smuggled into the association. He certainly favoured funds being invested in Government securities.

He attributed the failure of the existing system to political elements having been permitted to enter into the management.

The bill was read a second time and committed.

On clause 11, providing how moneys shall be lent,

The Hon. Mr M'LEAN was inclined to test the feeling of the Council by moving that part 2, providing that part of the association's money may be lent on freehold property, be struck out. On a division, the clause was retained as printed by 21 to 9. The bill was reported without amendmentsread a third time and passed.

A message was received from the House stating 'that the Council's amendments in the Counties Bill had been disagreed with.

The Hon. Mr REYNOLDS moved that the amendments be not insisted upon.

The Hon. Dr POLLEN moved the adjournment of the debate till next day. — Agreed to. The disagreements of the House in the Municipal Corporations Bill of amendments made by the Council were ordered to be considered tomorrow.

The Hon. Mr REYNOLDS moved the second reading of the Local Bodies' Finance and Powers Bill, which was agreed to on the voices, and the bill was committed, reported without amendments, read a third time, and passed.

The Hon. Mr REYNOLDS moved the second reading of the Hospitals and Charitable Institutions Bill, and stated that the bill was chiefly designed to repair several defects in the existing act. The bill was read a second time and committed.

The Council adjourned at 5 o'clock. The Council, in committee on the Hospital and Charitable Institutions Bill, resumed at 7.30.

On the motion for the third reading of the New Zealand Loan Bill, Sir F. WHITAKER explained that his reason for objecting to the bill was that, considering that in the past the Council had not done its duty in seeing that lines of railway set forbh in the Loan Bill had not been authorised by Parliament, he had taken objection to the bill. He believed that the Supreme Court could at any time have set aside the construction of any ljne, if applied to, by prohibition or other-

wise. He must say he was agreeably surprised by finding that the cost of railways now under construction or authorised by Parliament would only amount to £2,179,000, as he had previously considered the amount required would have been double that sum. He certainly thought that it would have been far better if the money for the construction and completion of these railways was at once borrowed by the Government. Having indicated the reasons for the objections to the bill on the part of the Council, he desired to state that he felt convinced the Council had no desire to infringe upon the privilege of the House, and he felt equally convinced he spoke the opinion of the Council when he said the House did not desire to infringe the prerogative of the Council. Having said so much, he would not oppose the third reading of the bill. The Hon. Mr REYNOLDS said that although he had opposed the appointment of the committee, he still felt very pleased that the committee had been appointed, as it had afforded valuable information to the Council.

The Hon. Dr MENZIES, while admitting that the , Committee had done good service, considered it a matter for regret that time had not allowed for more evidence to be taken as to whether the lines described in the bill were required, and he was surprised to hear Sir F. Whitaker say he should like to have seen the money borrowed to complete all the lines under construction or proposed to be constructed. He felt equally convinced that the people of the country were of his own opinion, the burden of taxation being too heavy already. The Hon. Mr M'LEAN corroborated the opinions'expressed by the previous speaker, as he believed that some of the proposed lines would never pay anything like interest upon construction. How Sir F. Whitaker could say he thought the lines of railway to be constructed or under construction should be completed at once by borrowing money for that purpose he could not understand.

Sir F. WHITAKER explained that he did not say the money should be borrowed at once for the completion of those lines which should be immediately completed, but rather that immediate arrangements, now that money was cheap, should be made for borrowing from year to year for the completion of the lines.

The Hon. Mr MILLER considered the country was taxed to its utmost limits already. Many of the proposed lines would never pay. He trusted in future the Council would insist upon being consulted before any large public works were initiated.

The motion for the third reading was agreed to on the voices, the only dissentient being ihe Hon. Mr Fraser, who said he washed his hands of the bill. The Council adjourned at 9.15.