Evening Sitting.

Otago Witness, Issue 50, 29 June 1861, Page 3

Evening Sitting.

Present — The same members as in the morning. Mr. Cutten, in opening the adjourned debate on the Licensing Bill, did not consider it good policy to go into the question now; the House ought to go into Committee, and then debate it clause by clause, and in that way the Government would be put in possession of the opinions of the various members. The Government had great difficulty in arriving at those opinions, or the opinions of the public. At the last session, the Council had by resolution affirmed that free trade in spirits, as well as in anything else, wa3 desirable, and that drunkenness should be more severely punished. Another portion of the House wished for a Bottle license, to which he objected most strongly, even although spirits were not allowed to be drunk on the premises. It ought not to be sold where other necessaries can be got, as people might be induced to purchase it with the money which should be otherwise applied. All who sold spirits should have their houses open to the inspection of the police. Free trade in this commodity should only be tried as an experiment. The great evils of sly grog-selling were patent to all, and the injudicious conduct of the Bench of Justices in limiting the number of licenses issued, by doing which they. infringed one of the rules of trade, had contributed most materially to extend the practice of sly grogselling. It was quite a fallacy to suppose that by limiting the number" of licensed houses they limited the consumption of drink. The best remedy was to grant a license to all who possessed the neccessary accommodation. There were less pubhe-houses in Dunedin than in any town he knew of equal size in the colony, and yet the consumption of spirits was greater in proportion to the population than in any other. If they discussed the Bill clause by clause, the Government would know how to amend it. As for himself, he was willing to leave the law as it wa3, if the police would put down sly grogselling. Mr. M'Glashan could not concur in passing this measure, which was in opposition to the views expressed by his Honor the Superintendent in his address. These views were very judicious, and would, he thought, give ultimate satisfaction. He objected to the clause requiring a certificate of character from five householders for every applicant for a license being demitted from the new bill, and also to a licensee, who had forfeited his license by bad conduct, being able to get his license again after an interval of six months. The character of the applicant was a most material point and a great, guarantee of the house being well conducted. In the Parliamentary Committee which sat in 1835 to enquire into the causes of drunkenness, the evidence was perfectly fearful and horrifying, and showed that the increase in crime and intemperance was owing to the increase in the number of public houses. He was not opposed to the Bottle license, but he despaired of ever making this Bill a workable one. He thought the Government should withdraw it, and introduce one in accordance with the principles enunciated in the Superintendent's address. Mr. Walker thought the House should go into Committee on the Bill, and then, whether it passed or not, the Government would know the views of the House. As for the certificate of character, it was worth very little ; any one might get it. The Bill did away with this, but substituted a more real security in compelling the applicant for a license to have a given amount of accommodation for man and horse. He thought the Bottle license advisable, and it .should be borne in mind, in making laws, that unless the public mind was with them they could not he enforced. There was a difference between moral and legal crimes, and it was better to legalize and sanction a trade which was not morally wrong, than to let the law be broken as it is at present. Mr. Reynolds referred to Port Chalmers, where the Bench of Justices had refused to license a house, and where in consequence, the law had to be broken. If the teetotal Justices liked to drink water themselves, they should not force every one to do the same : they ought to allow to others the same liberty they dei mand for themselves. He (Mr. Reynolds) approved of the power of granting licenses being given to the Superintendent and the Executive. As to the Bottle license, he had 1 not made up his mind, but thought it a hard

case that a man should, if he -waiited a bottle ; of spirits,, be compelled to buy it at a high rate it a public house, wfeen he could gei.it cneaper ■ at a store. A Licensing Bill Had been three times before the House, and yet they Had not gdt a step further on ; the House dugHfc fa gd into Coirfraittee "on the Bill. Mr. Hari>x wtiuld stipp'brt, tHe secorid readirlg of the Bill, bat would like to see the permissive principle introduced into it. , The second reading was then agreed to" — Dr; Purdie's amendnierit, thai it be redd that day six months, being negatived. The House then went iritd Cdm'triittee OH the Bill, and updn the Ist clause Mr. Gillied brought forward a series df resolutions, the first of which, after considerable discussion, was put td the. Hduse as an amendment ori clause 1 of the Bill, w'heii the House divided; the numbers being, for the original motion 3, for the amendment 8, as follows: — Ayes — Messrs. Howorth, Cutten, Taylor,. .M'Master, Reynolds, Healy, Kilgpur, arid Walker (\oiler.) Noes— Messrs. M'Glashan, Todd, Martin, Rennie, Steel, Hardy, Purdie, and Gillies; (teller.) The Chairman gave' his casting vote with the Noes. After considerable discussion, Mr. Giliies withdrew his resolutions, and gave notice that he would lay them on the table to-morrow, and move them as a whole on Wednesday, and also move for a Select Committee td prepare a Bill in accordance with them. The House resumed, when the Chairman reported progress, and asked leave tdsii again. The Education Bill was read a second time, and ordered to be committed oh Wednesday* aftef which the House adjourned;