UNIVERSITY SENATE

Otago Daily Times, Issue 18768, 23 January 1923, Page 5

UNIVERSITY SENATE

FIFTH DAY. The University Senate continued its sittings in the Allen Hall yesterday morning. The Chancellor (Sir .Robert Stout) was in the chair. RIGHTS OF STUDENTS. Professor Hunter moved—" That the Senate will not allow the rights of students in an affiliated institution to be infringed by the regulations of any ‘recognised’ school.” In bringing the motion forward, Professor Hunter said the Board of Studies Jiao recommended that the Somite should ensure that the privileges of students in any affiliated institution should not be restricted oy any special school. The Somite rtcogmseu affiliated institutions, and laid down conditions by which students working mere mignt be granted degrees. The Senate also recognised special schools, and leully prohibited students from getting certain kinds of instruction in any other college. But the Senate had always held that where the instruction was suitable a certain part ot a course might be taken in any college. It was quite possible for a special school so to arrange us regulations as to deprive students at affiliated institutions from obtaining the privileges which (he Senate had obviously decided they should Ouiani, A case had actually arisen in connection with *be domestic science course at \ ictona College. The (.Senate should see that no college that was recognised as a special school should be able to draw up conditions in such a way as to defeat the ends ot a university statute. Professor Benham said that last year it was agreed that some modification should be made to meet the wishes of Victoria College. The course here was arranged by the faculty of home science to meet the necessities of students who were pursuing their course in Otago. The course was in ranged, just as the medical course was arranged, m order to get the time required tor all the subjects. There was no reason why a student in another college should not come down and take her chance here. The difficulties in providing a course which would accommodate every student from other places would bo very great, and the present arrangement was arris ed at only after consideration had been given to the matter tor a number of years. If they passed this motion they would, it seemed to him, be instituting a dangerous principle. , The Hon. Air Fowlds said they often found that the position was that a course was arranged for the convenience and practical advantage of those who were able to go where a special school was located. After referring to what he described as the injustice inflicted on the students in the engineering school in Auckland the speaker said Ue thought the position was one which ttiey could not possibly tolerate. If necessary the course should be modified so os to enable students to prosecute as far as possible their studies in their home college. Why should these people be compelled to leave their home city and go where a special school was located? Air W. J. Alorrell stated that arrangements were made to suit the reasonable needs of those who took the first year in another centre, but he did not think that should prevent them from making (arrangements 'to suit the vast majority of students. The minority were not placed at a disadvantage. Mr dc la Mare said he did not agree with Mr Fowlds. Ho did not think they should allow any school to side-step a university statute. ‘ He understood that the Board of Studies had passed a resolution on tnis subject. Prolessor Hunter said he found that the resolution had not been sent to any committee, and that was why he had brought his motion forward. He thought it was a matter of principle. The Chancellor (Sir Robert Stout) said the Board of Studies had made suggestions in regard to the matter, which, in his opinion, should bo referred to tho Science, Agriculture, and Forestry Committee. Professor Scott suggested a slight modification in the wording of the motion so as to provide that the Senate will not allow the regulations of its approved courses to be infringed by those of any recognised school. • This was agreed to by Professor Hunter. Air Caughley expressed the opinion that they should pass both proposals. If they passed Professor Hunter’s motion they would affirm the general principle, but there was still the question of getting over the difficulty with regard to domestic science. He thought someone should move the resolution passed by the Board of Studies with tho alteration that in place of the words ‘Technical college” the words “approved by the should be inserted. A number of the technical colleges were not competent to give the instruction required, but no doubt tfie colleges in Auckland, Wellington. Christchurch, and Dunedin would be competent. Professor Hunter said he took it that the passing of the motion would have tho effect of making the Home Science Faculty btiug its regulations into conformity with the university regulations. The regulations of the Senate were being ignored evei'y year. Professor Benham said he was not aware of that. Professor Hunter said the point was whether the University Senate was to draw up regulations or whether a special school was to draw them up. Professor Benham said the regulations in connection with home science had all beep approved .by the Senate. A considerable number of the things mentioned by Professor Hunter were not provided for in the University examinations. The motion, as amended, was carried by IS votes to 4. NEXT MEETING OP SENATE. Professor J. Rankine Brown moved:— ‘‘That the meeting of Senate be held a fortnight after the present date.” He stated that it. was becoming clearer year by year that steps must be taken to relieve the congestion in the office at tho end and the beginning of each year owing to tho great increase in the number of candidates tor the various University examinations. It was only with very great difficulty and at the risk of making serious mistakes that tlie results of the law and professional and accountancy examinations were published on the eve of the Christmas vacation. The office saw great difficulties in the way of getting entrance scholarship and matriculation results ready for the meeting of the. December Committee on January 15, and so far very few of the pass results of the pass examinations in arts and science had come to hand. The motion was seconded by Professor Hunter. Mr Morrell strongly opposed the motion on the ground that secondary school teachers would bo prevented from attending. Professor Wall moved as an amendment that the meeting be held a month later than at present. This was seconded by Prolessor Dettinann. The amendment was defeated, and tho motion was carried. It was then decided that the next annual meeting bo held in Christchurch, ’ commencing on February 13. RECESS COMMITTEE’S REPORT, The Recess Committee on the December examinations recommended : That the Taranaki scholarships of the year 1922 be awarded in order of merit to Copping, Alice Al.; Brodie. A.; White, Evelyn M.; APMillan. D. G. ; Downes. Alice M.; Griffin,-A. \V,; Hewlett. IT. C ; Thomson, Helen C.; Brodie, J. That of remaining candidates 66 passed “with credit” and of the remainder 34 qualified for matriculation. That the following be recorded as having passed the Intermediate Mus B. examination: —Bertram, Gertrude A.; Alartin, C. L. That the folowing be recorded as having passed a section ot tne Intermediate Mus. B examination in History of Music: Rowlandson, Robio E. That me following candidate* be recorded os having qualified for medical Registration on the entrance scholarship papers: Bailey, E. E. : Hastio. Katherine M. The recommendations were adopted. The Senate agreed to the following resolutions, whkie rvero discussed in committee : That the local committees of Senate satisfy themselves as to tho wunability of the accommodation provided for examinations, the arrangements made for the separation of the candidates, and the fitness ot all supervisors employed. That books and not loose sheets be used in all University examinations. That if owing to the character of the accommodation available or for any other vdlid reason the local committee in any of the four chief centres considers that more assistance is required than is allowed for by tho present regulations, the Registrar be empowered to grant such additional ussistanco l nnt the attention of chief supervisors be called to the necessity of exercising careful supervision over the candidates and in particular of seeing that their assistants are placed in commanding positions, that they move about the room and do not converse or read books or write letters or do anything else which may interfere with the efficient supervision of the candidates.

That _ there be added to the examination regulations a warning; against copying and a statement of the penalty involved. That the examination regulations be printed on the, timetable. That the attention of examiners be called to the necessity of initialling any alteration in the marks. COMPENSATION SYSTEM ABANDONED. At the afternoon sitting the Chancellor (Professor J. Macmillan brown) moved: "That the principle of compensation be no longer applied to the matriculation examination.” The motion was seconded by Professor Hunter. Pro l e>sor Thomas opposed the motion. Ho contended that an examination did not constitute a proper tost. It was a question wncilier they »ere going to insist on a candidates for matriculation coming up to a given standard all round. If a candidate snowed merit in certain subjects he should not be debarred trom matriculation even though he might be weak in others. Professor limiter contended that what Professor Thomas had said did not touch the question of compensation at all. Then system dealt with cognate subjects only. The present system was that in certain groups ot subjects certain marks in one thing would Ibrnpensute for weakness in another. He hud been struck with some very disastrous results of that principle. There were cases where a candidate had done very good work in certain subjects, but got only 34 or 33 marks in a subject in which he was weak. The result was that candidate failed or got a partial pass only. Under the system a really good candidate might fail, while one without ability got a pass. Mr Morrell said that it might be that the piinciplo of compensation hud not been applied in the wisest manner. He believed they would get better results by allowing a wider margin in respect to compensation. Professor J. Rnnkine Brown said the rules as to compensation had grown up gradually. It was necessary to lay down some definite principle, otherwise the results would vary from year to year. As long as the results were brought out mainly by ttio office he thought they must be guided by very definite principles. Great difficulty arose at times in deciding what compensation should bo allowed. Any rules must act unfairly under certain conditions. There was a strong feeling on the pact of many of them that the standard for matriculation should be raised. He believed that an inferior type of student was getting into the colleges now. In his opinion the pass mark should be raised from 40 to 45 per cent. Insistence on a puss in all the subjects would bo a very much more gentle form of raising the standard than raising the pass marks in each subject. The jiroposal before the Senate would ease the work of bringing out the. results. Professor \\ all said he was very strongly in favour of the motion. The experience of professors, sc far as he was aware, was that; it was too easy to pass the matriculation examination. There was a large number of students in the colleges every year ' v ho were not fit to take up university studios and who were thus losing n year of their lives. Compensation was the mean? whereby the examination had been made easier. Piofessor Segar said the proposal was almost a unanimous recommendation bv the committee. He hud no doubt that the standard had been lowered fairly considerably in the last nine years, and that it uas too low now. Compensation was originally introduced to meet the case of a candidate who was weak in one subject, but since then the partial puss had been applied. Mr Caughley pointed out the danger of making adjustments by means of figures, in view of the low standard of the matriculation examination these concessions should not be continued. The Chancellor remarked that over 30 years ago he had protested against the low standard of the matriculation examination. and he had igoved that there should be two grades. Since that time they had gone on opening gaps for weak students wk.. the result that the examination had been used for purposes for which it was never intended. The Hon. J. A. Hanan said the free place system had placed an increased number of pupils in the secondary schools, and tbat was one reason for the larger number of candidates for matriculation. The impression given to the public was that the papers were easier now than they were 25 or 30 years ago, but lie ventured to say that in some cases the papers to-day were harder than they were 25 or 30 years ago. Dr Anderson said that in view of the fact that the conditions were now moderately easy h e would vote for the proposed reform. He thought the recommendation of the committee was quite defensible and ;n the direction in which they ought to go. Professor Thompson said he would prefer to see the pass mark raised to 45 per cent, and tne compensation system retained. ihe motion was carried. INFORMATION FOR EXAMINERS. The Chancellor next moved—‘ That in future each examiner in any pass university examination shall be supplied for his guidance with information as to the percentage of passes, or in the case of entrance scholarships, the average of marks for the five previous years in all the subjects of the examination.” v The motion was carried. ADJUSTMENT MARKS. Tile next clause, which was moved hv the Chancellor, was as follows: “That for the present the practice of adjusting marks, except by the Examiners, be discontinued.” Mr Caughley suggested that when an examiner had done a certain number of the papers at what he considers about, the pass standard he should forward these to a small central committee of experts, and if any modification is desired later 'it could then be made. Jt'rofessor Hunter said he disagreed with the previous speaker. The only remedy, to his mind, lay in the appointment of the examiners themselves and not in the averaging of the marks. Dr Anderson moved as an amendment—‘"That, discretionary power be given to the University Office under direction of the Wellington Committee to adjust the marks as may be deemed fit.” The amendment was seconded by Mr Bakewell. The clause was adopted in its original form. NOTICE OF MOTION. Dr Anderson gave notice of his intention to move as follows:—“That the Senate affirms the principle that entrance to the University should be mainly through the acceptance of suitable secondary certificates based upon courses of study of an adequate character and length as used or to be used by the Education Department, and that a conference be arranged with that department to determine the conditions of isyue, including science subjects, to be included and’ the securities to be taken to the satisfaction of the University for the maintenance of certificate values, the result of such conference to be considered by the April meeting of the Senate.” • MEMBERS ENTERTAINED. The members of the Senate wore subsequently entertained at afternoon tea at the Clarence Lounge as the guests of Lady Stout.