BISMARCK IN 1867

Otago Daily Times, Issue 16348, 3 April 1915, Page 5

BISMARCK IN 1867

REMARKABLE INTERVIEW. HISTORICAL FORECAST AND THE EVENTS.

(Feom Ocb Own Correspondent.) LONDON, January 19. Tho Daily Telegraph, on January 12, scored a distinct journalistic succesa It gave a remarkable interview which William .Bratty Kingston had with Bismarck in 1867. Kingston in those days Wd3 foreign correspondent to tho Daily 'i'olograph, and ho wont to Berlin and had a "lour hours' palaver with the Man." Ho sent home two accounts of the interview—one for publication and the other for the private information of Lord Burn ham. It is this letter which Lord Burnham has discovered among his old and papers. It is interesting to note that Lord Burnham, in 1867, purposely asked l Kingston to have a talk with Count Bismarck, because "I had constantly in my mind a belief that tho day was gradually approaching -when France and Germany would be at war."

Bismarck believed in peace, and for many reasons. "I do not believe for a. moment that France will fight us alone, for, reckoning that every Prussian is -it least as good as every Frenchman, we are numerically stronger than she. The attack must come from her; wo shall never begin a war, if war there over be, for wo havo nothing to gain. Suppose Franco entirely conquered and a Prussian garrison in Paris, what are wo to do with our victory ? We could not even decently take Alsace, for th.o Alsacicns aro become Frenchmen, and wish to remain so. Belgium we do not want; "besides, England guarantees her integrity. Therefore, _ should this possib'lity which is always being dinned into my ears as a probability ever come to pass, France will undoubtedly attack us, in which' case, if she stand alone, she is lost. . . . Therefore they seek for allies. Will they find them? I will tell jcai why I think not. France, tho victor, would be a danger to everybody, but Prussia to nobody. That is ono strong point." ATTITUDE OF ENGLAND.

Bismarck continued:—"England wishes to 6ee a Power in Europe strong enough to counterbalance France That; is the reason she supported and sympathised with Austria as long as Austria seemed to bo strong; that is the reason -why 1 told the King, when ho wished mo to carry out the execution in Denmark alone, 'Wo must have Austria with us, or England will join her against us'; and that is tho reason why England is now turning towards us —because she sees in us the Continental counterpoise to France, which you English, in spito of your loudly-protested alliance with • Napoleon, are too sensible not to understand the necessity of. Your alliancc has already cost you dearly enough in the loss of Continental influence, and' I should not Wonder if the proud English people were to ?-jji fc ' red so , mo fiay of Paying a bad second fiddle to the old foo they have so often conquered. . You will never take tup arms against us in the cause of France. NO FEAR OF AUSTRIA.

• have> as little fear of Austria. Austria }s Jiko a house built of bad bricks, which, however, are kept together by an excellent mortar. How do you call it? Cement— hat cement is her German population. Whatever good has been done in her barbarous provinces has been done by the Germanising of . their institutions—everywhere m Austria German is spoken—the inhabitants of the different Slav, Magyar, and Latin must use German to understand one another. An alliance, therefore, with France, having for its purpose the arrest of German unity in its majestio progress and the devastation of German territory -would be fatal to Austria whichever -way the tide of victory set. She would surely be ruined through such an alliance, and she knows it. I am not the least apprehensive of an Austro-French alliance, I give you my word of honour.

QUITE SAFE .FROM RUSSIA "Russia will never join Franco against "Jr~°f that be assured,—it is impossible! (Bismarck said this with great emphasis, leaning on both his . arms half across the table towards me, and .looking into my eyes with the greatest earnestness.) "Russia is in a horrid 6tate, and a big war 13 out of the question for her .till she has set her house in order. If I -were the Emperor's Prime Minister (as he very much wished' mo to' bo six years ag9), I" should begin, by cutting the army down to exactly half its present number and knocking the privileges of tho Tchinovnik on the head, that foul and useless Tchin causes half Russia s misfortunes. Just now public feeling in Russia is as bad as can. be against J? ranee but, whatever happens, make your mind, up that we are quite safe from Russia. NAPOLEON'S MISTAKES.

think might bring about war. Of course, an excuse -would not be wanting if the French really needed one, but I think' the greatest danger of all proceeds from Napoleon's vacillating state of mind. Ho is become old—but he is also become younger—that is to say, he indulges in vagaries, gives way to impulses, and allowß His wifo to exercise a great deal too much influence over him. The Mexico business was her doing, as I suppose you know, lie ;s not the man he used' to be, and Jiiurope will never be safe whilst his present ■ state of intellect continues. Another groundi of danger is the-intense ignorance and mendacity of the men who represent JJ ranee everywhere. Look round Europe for one capable or honest French agent! All are knaves, or so crassly ignorant and prejudiced that ail intelligent schoolboy is worth all of them put together.

GERMAN AMBITIONS.

You would like to know something about our plans, our aggregation wroiects, and our ambitions, would you notl will tell you exactly what thev are, and) only two or three besides the King and myself know. First of all there is Austria. Now, tho German provinces of Austria, except the lyrol and Salzkammergut, both of which are blindly Catholic and Hapsbuxg, may experience a strong gravitation towards us 1 do not deny it for a moment. But I assure you if I were offered Upoer and Lower Austria to-morrow. I should refuse them. They are too far off; there are Bohemia, Austrian Silesia, Moravia, with three-fifths Slav populations, between us We don t want any part of Austria—let her get strong and be our ally. We wish it clearly understood that if Austria must disintegrate, we don't want any of the pieces.

PEACE WITH FRANCE. There is nothing in our attitude to annoy or alarm .France—l think, barring the accidents at which I have hinted, there is nothing to prevent the maihtenance of peace for 10 or 15 years, by which time the I 1 rench will have got accustomed to German unity, and will consequently have ceased to care about it.

xu" 1 to! , d our generals this spring, when they endeavoured to prove to me by all sorts of arguments that we must beat the J; rench if wo went to war with them • 'If you «in ma.ke it as clear to me as'that God be (verbatim, K.} that we can crush I< ranee and occupy Paris, I will still do all I can. to prevent war; for you must remember, gentlemen,. a war between such near neighbours and old enemies as France ana Prussia, however it may turn out is only the first of at least six; and supposing we gained all six, what should we have succeeded in doing? Why, in ruinin" France, certainly—and most likely ourselves into the bargain; do you think a poor, bankrupt, starving, ragged neighbour is as desirable as a wealthy solvent, fat, wellclothed one? Franco buys largely of us, and sells us a groat many things wo want—is it in our interest to ruin her completely? "I strove for peace then—and I will do so as long as may bo—only, remember, German susceptibilities must be respected, or I cannot answer for the people—not even for tho King! _ The French, I am quite aware, are buying horses and provisions. That does not frighten me. Their harvest is a bad one. and they are quite right to take precautions against distress. They cannot want provisions for a war with us, for in such a war they must bo the aggressors, and if they invade Germany thev wiU find food and provender enough for 10 French armies. Their preparations do not disquiet mo in tho least. We are always ready. DENMARK AND RUSSIA.

" The Danes are giving us a good deal of unnecessary trouble. I would meet them halfway, if it were not that our people are so mixed in with them in the districts thev want ceded. I know what would happen to our people who have compromised themselves with us during tho last year, if wo abandoned them. It is not tho "Danish Government, but the small officials and the people who would revenge themselves—and then we should havo another cry of distress rousing Germany and stirring up the whole ugly question again—besides giving a chance to France, which I don't moan to do if I can help it. There are 10, 20, in somo places as much as 30 per cent.,' of German in these parts all the fuss is being made about —I cannot and dare not abandon them !

" One more word about Russia. Russia is like a strong and healthy man who is attacked by an illness. If lie will only take advice and stop at home for two or three days, he will get well immediately, and bo as strong as over. But if ho will insist upon going oat, .walking about-and trans -

acting business abroad as if he wero well, then his malady -will lay firm hold on him, and perhaps _he will die. Two or three days in the life of a man mean 10, 20, or 30 years in the life of a nation. Russia must ' stop at home.' Sho has got a great future—her highest nobles are intelligent and honourable—her peasants are the host fellows in the world—it is in the middle that she is rotten—the official nobility of •Tchin is a virulent ulcer eating away her bowels."

Kingston concludes: "When I left him he gave me his portrait and autograph, saying that he wished to make quite sure I should not forget him; and as wo shook hands_he, as it were, summed up: 'I believe in pea«e because, as I have told you, Prance dare not fight us alone, and nobody will help hor. In the East, Russia would liko to start a disturbance, but is impotent to support it. Poor little Charles of Hohenzollern is a failure, and complains of the way tho Russians behave to him. He is painfully homesick. Good-night! I have been glad to see you again; and when you want to know the truth about anything particular, ask me, and I will tell you.' -