THE ESTATES TO BE BURST UP

Otago Daily Times, Volume 13696, Issue 13696, 12 September 1906, Page 2

THE ESTATES TO BE BURST UP

I ANIMATED DEBATE IN I'AULIA- ' MENT.. THE NAME£WITIIIIELD. vTeou Ocr Own ConnF.sroNDEXT.) WELLINGTON, September It. In' the House- of Representatives Mr Hood asked I lie Government if it would lay on the table of the House the return of estates of over £50,000 unimproved valuo, from which Mr M'Nab had quoted during the debate on the Jlitdtret. Tho lion. Mr M'Nab agreed to do EO. Mr Btiumo asked if the'return would show tho estates according to the provincial districts. Mr Massoy asked tnat the names of tho owners, be eivon, and said that without the names it would bo of little use. The names had been given.in an old return published m the newspapers, but at least 20 of tho owners had cut up their estates since that return was compiled. Mr M'Nab said that in this ca«o it was proposed to keen the names out. Mr Massey said he thought that they should be given, also thu districts. He believed that in at least two of tho provincial districts there Was not a singlo cstato that, would liavo' to bo divided up. If that was the ease, then, Ihe House ought to ,know it. ' At a later stage Mr M'Nab moved that tho return be laid on tho table and he printed. Mr Baumo said that there were a great number of. people in the Auckland 'district who would be glad to know the location of Ihe big'estates, the surplus rif,; .which overhand above, tho prescribed liniitjition of area was expected to meet the demands for the freehold. If the members representing tho district had tho information required they would,,have, sompllliiur .delimit), to .place bejoro their constituents; .Mr ,|.|hodi;« asked if the return showed whether, the estates were owned by private persons or by companies. 'Mr Lpwis wished to know 'whether the return '.gave the number of beneficiaries under tho wills in which the estates were held by trustees.

■Mr Massoy moved, as ail amendment, that the names of tho owner.*, whether individuals or companies, be added to llio return. Ho said thai, if it was riidit lo give ihe names tour years ago it could not, bo wrong to do'it now. In'regard to .he 1002 return, bo said it was nonsense to ineludu such an cstato as the Diluorth Estate, at Romuora; which' was held in trust for certain specific purposes. Parliament would never think of interfering' with a block of land held in tiiis way; yet, for nil they knew, tho Dilworth Estate might he' included in. tho rerun, now under discussion. The Premier opposed Ihe amendment, urging that it was unnecessary lo have the at the present- stage. . Tiiero ivould be time enough to asj; for it when the Land Bill came before llio House. Tho Government had no wish to keep the information from members.- '

Mr Massey; Well, let us have It. Tho Premier said that Mr Baume had indicated thnt his reason in asking for the information had 11 special reference to the Auckland' district. • The estates were distributed llirouiili the colony, and the question whs u rolonial, and not a. provincial, one. The Hcuse should accept, the information given in the return now under discussion' and wait until the proper time before asking for the additional information indicated in the amendment. Until the Laud Bill came iiaek fiom the bands of tho committee it would be premature to ask for the liiniics.

Mr .f. Allen said that the amendment raised no local question. Mr Ba-tima had certainly referred to the question of locality, but tho amendment, simply linked Hint the names should be attached io the properties. If there was a reason for giving; the names four yearn ago, there was a greater reason now, when the question of dealing with these large areas of lands was becoming a question of practical polities. Mr M'Nab said that according to tho standing orders a- member who'quoted from a., document, was'bound-io lay it on tho table. He bad promised to'do so, ami since ho had quoted froiji it he had allowed those members who wished to see it to do so. The names Could not bo added lo tho return, as to do so would not hi; in accordance with ihe Standing Orders, which required that Ihe particular document quoted from should be laid on the table. Any members could move for any other information desired.

.This remark was greeted. will) ironical laughter from tho Opposition members, and also with llio interjection, "Haw long will it take io get it?"

Mr M'Nab said (hat' members had no occasion to complain of the difficulty in selling returns so far litis session. lie had distinctly told the Valuer-general not to include the'names, and witli one exeeplion. ho did not'know .the names of the owners. lie eould not at. present answer Iff Lewis's question, regarding the number of beneficiaries under a will. As to .'companies, if theft! were 20 0r..500 persons tltoy would be dealt with as one owner.

Mr Hurries asked why the 'Minister-had not laid the return on Hie table at tire conclusion of his speech, ■ Instead of that ho appeared to have kept it, and to have shown it to some members and not to others.

Mr Jl'Xabi I did not refuse'to'show it to any member.. •

The Premier asked how' tho Minister could have corrected his Hansard report if ho had laid the return on the table as soon as he had finished his speech. Mr M'Nab having remarked that no effective reply had been made to his speech by tho member following him (Mr Herrie6), the latter retorted that this was beside iho question, and that; moreover "the Minister was not there lo listen to it. as he. was absent correcting bis speech to put it on the wires immcdiatelv afterward;. Tho information now asked for, he said, could bo obtained in half an hoiir.

The Hon. Mr Fowlds said (hat tho return had practically been laid on the table of lite House.—(" Oh!" and laughter.) It was. absurd to ask that tho names ho tacked on to it. The return asked for by the Leader of '(he Opposition would take months to prepare—("Oh! what nonsense!")—if in tho form cf the return furnished in 1903.

Mr Baumo and others: Nobody asked for that.

Mr Massoy complained of misrepresentation by Mr Fowlds. Ho did not ask. for ;i return in that form. !Tho Valuergeneral could add the names to tho return in a quarter of an hour. . The Hon. Mr Millar argued that the House could not tack on the namos to tho return. . Ho asked the Speaker's ruling. Mr Speaker: It is for the House to say.— (Opposition "Hear, hears.") Mr Gray "said .that if flic names Were given the sympathies of lion, members might bo swayed and their hearts influenced

instead of their judgment, and undor f.ho' circumstances ho would support tho sup. prcssion of tho thirst, for information! Mr Lauronson said lhat if the names were wanted, by nil iiipans let them be givenlint (hey should not confuse the nresent return with thom.-IGovernment '"Hear, hoars. ) Thoy. should discuss the matter from .1 colonial, and not from a. provincial point of view.

Mr liaume. in the course of a .stiii-mir speech, said that the matter had now be", como a question, not of policy, but of measures; and every member was entitled Jo consider bow tho measure woidd affect his constituents and his own districts He oamo from a district whore the lands, both Lrown lauds and Native lands, had been Joelted up against tho people- for yoar*- •' n V, hc:,r -" ) ono of ,lle "lain points m tho Government's land policy was-that no moro Crown lands nor Native lands would bo so.d for cceiiration with the right o purehuso.~-(Jfr Laurenson: "Hear hear. ) Ho (Mr Baumo) believed that to bo wrong. Tho .Minister of Lands said that there would bo moro freehold land opened under (.ho £50,000 clause than ever before. Ho (l, r Haume) wanted to know, it tho people wanted to get that freehold, whore thoy were to get it from. He know t rat they would not be able to got it ju tho Auckland, district, and Iho people-of Auckland would bo humbug-god if they thought they wore RO im; to -cot it. He would voto will, t!,o Leader of tho Opposition luiless tho Government was prepared lo give, him tho information. He was not going to kvo it kept back, "and," he continued, with emphasis, "if tho Government J3 not gomg | 0 g i vc iti jam j , , 0 , try by all the eonsfiliilional means in n>v power to get it." The Minister of Kducalion had admitted Unit ho was responsible for tho printing of tlin 1903 return. If no Imhovwl that such a return was news•f ry ,h ™' ~ vhe» <l'cn> win no Laud Kill, „ t i SmV" 105 mor °-necessary now, when a Land Bill was comimr down. ■ Mr Fowlds: Thoy should go tho right way about it. ( Mr liaume: The Government should (rive tlio return if ii, is ifo. r j,hi ||,i llfr to ( |„. irrespective of all forms, and it could do so.- t say it should jnvo' us that information, oven if we do not ask for it. Iho information should be placed before tho country. T m , Hon ; Hull-Jones said iho information could bo obtained when the bill was before tho Lands Committee. _ Mr Massoy: If tho Homo cannot got it it is not likely that tho Lands (Joimniltcd will bo able to. a;Jr Hall-jones: Tlie Ilouso can get it if it asks for il. Jir. Ma-soy: "Hear, hear." Mr Hall-Jones: If the names are Riven, it means thai- all these people will 'o marked, and it will. ttonrcciate the v'" • of Ihoir properly bv tens and hundreds ■ ' thousands of. pounds.. The prople would lie waiting for a time w h,. n their estates would have to bo cull up. Mr \V, Frasor:. Thov will bo doing that now. Mr Fall-.Tones: No, because thov don't know tho names. * - .Mr Fr.-ser: Ob. nonsense! Mr Wilford'said-the argument of tho' .Minister was a more quibble. If it was advisable to givc tho names before, why «"!m' Item up' and hide thorn now.' Whether," bo added, " W0 discuss this matter from mv standpoint as a- freeholder or from the Ministerial point as a singletaxor. wo .should have all Iho i'nformation." , f r Jfa?sey's amendment was put and lost, tho division list boinir as fo'lows: — For the Amendment (10).-Mes«s Aitken, J. Allen, Bauine. BolY.rcl, Fiidier, A. L. D ? r ?, s «i.} v - Fras «. Hardy. Hemes. Kirkbridc, Lethbndge,- Lewis, Malcolm, Jlander, Mas?ev Poole, Remington. Klincka. Wilford. Against (47).-McwE. G. Allen, Arnold, Barber, Barclay, Eemiot, Buddo, Carroll Colvin, Dillon, Duncan,. Field, Flatman, I'owlds, rirny, Rrcenslade, Hall, Hall-Jones, Hanan, Hcke, Hcgan, Hogg, Hornsby, Houslon. laavil. Jennings, Kidd, La'utonson, M'.Gowim, U. ll'Kchxio. M'Lp.ehlan, M'Nab,' MflcPhwson, Millar, Mills. Ngnta, Parata Poland, lioss, Sidey, Smith, Stallworth, Stevens, Tanner, Thomson, Ward, Witty, Wood.

AN IMPORTANT PKTfTRN. (Pir United' Press Association.) WELLINGTON, soptcinlwf 11. The i following is tho" return of estates (country lands) of an unimproved valUe of £50,000 and upwards, showing area, capita)- value, and unimproved value, laid on tiiu iabln liy tlm lion. li. M'Nub, Minisroc of J,und*:— •

Note.—There are a number ot owners of lauds of iv Mai unimproved vuluo of £50,000 (rod inwards 1101 included in tlie nbovo list because the value of tlicir country lands, after deducting town and suburban i:roperlies, does not exceed A' 50,000 unimproved value. .

Arm. Capital Unimproved. Acres. Value. W.ue. 12,670 .. : £ (11010 ... t 501CD ' ' 15,631 61,015 ... 50,200 83 839: .. ■ 61.552 " .. 51,010 •11,580 .. (52892 .. 51,0-17 0 450 ' 59,070 .. 51,075 20.019 .. 07.823 .. 51.094 •' 17,5:il 74,QU 52.000 21 085.. 7-2.821 .. 52-197 28,665' .. . 105,050 . .. 52,797 36 060 .... 91.5G-2 52902 11,007 •'.., 7:1.709 53,014 31,0011 .. 80.12(1 .. , 53,745 10 438 tit,337 .. 61,351 0,12.1 .. •-07.127. • .. 5-1.860 32 035 .. S3,479 5G.'407 7,094 .. 03.935 .. 57.234 "1,413 .. 01,750 ,. 57,315 31.192 ... ■■ G1.234 .. 57,078 0.432 .. . 74.375' .. .58,103 S7-2G0 .. -95,740 .. 01,030 85,102 • .. ■ 85,027 ., 01,010 .18,753 .. ■ SL.073 ... 02.395 9,501 .. 74.013 .. ' 63,930 3 713 .. 73,850 - .. 01,850 10225 .. 88,039 ... 05,359 (,810 . 89 260 66.221 •10.401 .. 76,520 OS,872 9,983 ,.. . 90.495 .. ' 03,959 18 039 .. 90,340 .. 09,903 839 .. 7-1120 .. 70.525 1.J.3C0 110,312 .. 71.4K5 , 12,502 .. *82.317 71,8« 19,014 .. 'Jl',075. .. ' 72,833' 50,OS! ,, S7 051 .. 73.221 ■'18.410 .. 125.423 .. 73,205 13 835 . 94,219 7-1.403 16.020 .. 92,049 ., 75,124' 20,875 ; .. 90.730 70 569 14,292 .. 101,107 ., 77.781 10 035 .. 91 974 .. . 78, ICS 127.70'.). .. 10.3,207 78,182 25,401 1)1 090 • .. 18.020 13.113 .. 97.99(1 SI,794 ' 20,159 .. 98,133 ., S641S :11.129 .. 114,693 . .. 83,120 12 807 .. 120 003 .. 90145 15,3-50 ,, 106,91!) 91,861 '■ 28.590 ., . 111.427 94,581 12,001 .. 117,485 97,415 15853 .. 113191 ]0l;]81 ,30211 .. 150 Ml .. 112,570 •19,704 .. 143,119 .. 113,-If,6 18GS0 .. 130.920 . 115,979 27,887 .. 1(3.531 .. 118 710 23 787 . 191,706 . .. 123 171 75 381 .. 201 106 .. 131,608 23,574 ... 177,587 .. 138,224 20.02!) .. 184 050 .. 149,590 29,OSS .. 200.318 .. 161,276 35 063 .. 571,967 .. 101JS7 24 370 .. 237,115 ... 17-1,799 "218,8G0 230 990 .. 214 97S 101,221 .... 335,405 .'. 270.118 1.S00 3G6' ' £7,332,314 i'5.372,500 •