CORPORATION TRAMWAYS

Otago Daily Times, Issue 13518, 15 February 1906, Page 8

CORPORATION TRAMWAYS

IMPORTANT MATTERS DISCUSSED. MANAGEMEN'ivFINANCE, AND GENERAL. Several questions connected with the tramway system wero considered at last night's meeting of tho City Council. REDUCTION IN FARES. Mr Hugh Mitchell, secretary of the Duncdin Ratepayers and Householders' Association, wrote forwarding tho following resolution adopted at a meeting of tho executive of the association on the 12th inst.i—"That, in the opinion of the association', the timo is inopportune to discuss the question of reduction in tram fares till such time as n new manager is appointed and the cost of trains and working expenses are ascertained." The letter was received, and referred to the committee on tramway matters. FINANCIAL AND OTHERWISE. Tho following letter was read from Cr Loudon, chairman, of tho Tramways Committee " Willi reference to the decision of the council thai tho report of Messrs Richards and Goodman bearing on tramway matters should bo considered by a committee of Iho council. I would suggest that tho meeting lie fixed for Friday, 23rd February next, at 7.30, p.m., and I would request that tho following matters bo considered and dealt with at the same meeting:— (1) Consideration of stalf, with object of making alterations with' a view to economy jf possible and expedient; (2) fixing capital amount upon which interest and depreciations arc to be charged in statements furnished lo the council showing results of the working account; (3) fixing rates of depreciation to bo charged on various departments, and to decide how any sums set apart under this head arc to be dealt with; (4) consideration of future and permanent, management of tramway system and Waipori electric department; (5) consideration of system for keeping tramway accounts." Cr Brinsley thought it was extraordinary that a letter like this should have been written by a member of the council to the council. Nearly all the matters referred tc in it wero contained in tho report of Messrs Richards and Goodman. Cr Jxmdon surely ought to have confidence in tho Mayor, who would no doubt call tho. meeting when it. was opportune to call it. Tho report, which was to bo published in pamphlet form, was not yet. ho understood,, out of the hands of (lie printers,' and it would really be nccessary, he thought, for the report to be in the hands of councillors a week before Ihey could discuss, it. Ho moved-" That tho letter be received and referred to the committee at its meeting." Cr Gore hold lliat tho letter was informal. No councillor could introduce new matter into tho council without giving notico of motion. This was entirely new matter. The Mayor said that out of respect to Cr Loudon lie had allowed tho letter to be read, but Cr Gore having raised a question ho must rule upon it. The matters mentioned in iho letter wero referred to by Cr Loudon at the last meeting of tho council, when lie (the Mayor) pointed out that if Cr Loudon would bring them up on tho night (ho council mot in committeo thev could bo considered in conjunction with other questions affecting tho tramway department. His (Iho Mayor's) instructions to Messrs Richards and Goodman wero to report on all matters affecting the welfare of tho tramway department, and that had been done. The letter was really part of that business, and ho regretted, therefore, ho must rule that tho letter was out of order. TRAMWAYS COMMITTEE'S REPORT. Noyes Bros.' Coxmcr. Cr Loudon moved the adoption of tho Tramways Committee's report. Ho said that the recommendation (hat £50 be paid Air J. Green in full settlement of his claim for damage on account of tho level of tho street having been raised in front of his premises, Alexandra street, was made by tho engineer and tho legal aspect confirmed by tho town clerk after inquiry, so they could not get out of the amount, in regard to the recommendation that the requisition of Messrs Noycs Bros, for power to purchase copper wire at an estimated cost of £1245 be granted, tho amount involved was considerable, but it was absolutely necessary, ho understood, that this wire should be procured at once, so that the work in connection with the 'rt aipori schcinc could be carriod on.' Last October tho tramway managers requisitioned for this, but owing to the high price of wire the matter was held over until now. It was to bo regretted that tho price of wiro had not gone down since i hen, but the engineer considered it would bo dangerous to hold back any longer. In reference to tho recommendation that Messrs Noycs Bros, bo asked to continue the management of the tramways for a further period of six months from February 17, 1906, on the same terms as at present, this matter had been pretty fully considered by tho committee, which camo io tho conclusion, not. unanimouslv, but by a majority, that, tho wisest thing to do would Ik? (o ask Noyes Bros, to continue. tho management, for a further period of six months, and iu the meantime flu? matter would, ho presumed, be threshed out. thoroughly at. the special meeting to he held, and some arrangement, come to about the future management. He thought the council would agree it would he wiso not to make a change at the present time. As to cost the day they finished with Noyes Brothel's they would require to have an electrical engineer and 'a. traffic manager, so, from a financial point of view, probably they were getting along more cheaply tha;n they would when Noycs Bros, had finished with t.hom.' If there were other ways in which the tramways wero suffering through having Noycs Bros, as managers and councillors wero nwarc of them, ihey should state them. Mr Goodman, acting on behalf of Noyes Bros., had authorised him to say that Noyes Bros, did not seek tho position, and he had shown correspondence (cables and letters) in support of that statement. Mr Goodman also told him, further, that the day Noyes Bros, wero finished with the construction work at Cargill road they were quite willing to hand, over tho whole concern to the' corporation, and not to carry out their six months' supervision, if the corporation wished it, treating the Andcreon's Bay extension as a. separate contract altogether. Thoy would do that notwithstanding that the corporation might, enter into a six months', agreement with them. As to tho instruction to the city solicitors to take action against certain.poisons for refusing to leave the front platforms of tramcars when requested, the managers requested that these proceedings be taken to protect their employees, and for the maintenance of discipline. Cr Lawrence seconded the motion.. Cr Small inquired if the price of copper had risen, and if so, what loss it would mean. Cr Shacklock said he. had voted for the purchase of this copper wire for the simple reason, that there was danger otherwise of hanging up the Waipori scheme. He would, however, move as an amendment to Cr Loudon's motion— That section 5. clause 1 of thß report bo amended by the,addition of the following words: 'Providing they (Noyes Bros.) treat their contract as terminating on this date (February 17), and also treat the ensuing six months as being the period for which under their agreement with the corporation they were to supervise the plant free of charge.'" This followed out the ideas of tho chairman of the Tramways' Committee, and mado them more definite. The construction of the tramways would probably bo completed within tho next six months. Ho did not think the council was putting Noyes Bros, in a very fair position, and if his amendment were carricd it would eivc the council time to invite applications—he took it they would go outside tho colony,—and some time would be required. The council, in view of delays, should be. willing to waive the six months during which Noyes Bros, were expected to supervise free of charge. Cr Connor seconded the amendment. Cr Scott held that the amendment w»6 out of order. It was over-riding an agreement signed and sealed by the council. Cr Shacklock said that another short agreement would have to bo drawn up. The Mayor upheld Cr Scott's contention. The amendment over-rode the provisions of a deed already in existence. Cr Connor thought it would ba a great pity if Noyes Bros, wore appointed managers for & further term of six months. At the meeting on the 23rd tho council should consider whether thoy could not put an end to Noyes Brns.'s management of the trams. If Noyes Bro3. were not tired of Dunedin he thought the ratepayers generally were anxious that tho contract, so far as the management was concerned, should finish as soon as oossiblo. The ratepayers would like very much to know how much the system had rcallv cost. When the washing-up camo it' would be difficult to tell., Tho manner in which tho books were being kept, involving such matters as street, widening. Lee Stream tunnel, and the like, rrnißt convince one that the tramways were being largely over-capitalised. When a manager was appointed the man selected should bo not only a traffic -ro§nagejr-he ' should" be a mm -who

thoroughly understood liis business. Ho should bo a manager in every sense of tho word. Perhaps, as a.result of tho rotten foundation of the tramway contract, it would not bo possible to do otherwiso than extend the engagement for six months, but lie trusted that was not so. Cr Wilson moved as an amendment that iho words "for a further period of six months" bo deleted and tho words "during the pleasure of the council "• be substituted. Cr Arkle (intcrrujHing) wanted to know what all the discussion 1&13 about. If tho council' was bound by a deed to Noycs Bros, what was tho uso of all this talk? The Mayor: There is nothing in the deed that says we are to continue the management of Noycs Bros. As a matter of fact, they have si many things to do under the deed directly in connection with the office of management that there is littlo left for a manager to do in addition. Cr Wilson, speaking to his amendment, said there was a conference proposed gome timo ago between Urn Trannvav and Finance Committees, Why had that conference not taken place? A return laid before tho council recently, showing atr increased loss of something like £800, had not been considered by tho council, and to put it off from time to lime was absurd. There was also tho question of the finishing of the lines. Hayes's comer had been lninz up for a long time now. He thought if thoy gave Noycs Bros, the management for six months longer it would bo another six months, before lliev left. Cr Harrison feconJod the amendment. He thought it was a great pity that this matter was not threshed out a couple of months ago when Cr Walker's motion was tabled. Ho was in thorough accord with all that Cr Connor said. Cr Brinsloy said he took exception in the committee to the item regarding copper wire on tho ground that the price was 100 high, but' 011 Mr Goodman stating that it would delay the Waipori works for several months lie withdrew his objection, as it would,not, in the circumstances, pay them to wait till copper dropped in price. Ho thought the further appointment of Noycs Bros.' should be ratified. He was surprised there should be "any opposition to it, for not to adopt the committee's proposal was to let Noycs Bros, off part of their work, which, by agreement, they wero bound to do for the council for nothing, j He objected to tho proposal not to let off or take 011 passengers at the loop line near Albany street in Castle street. C: Goro was surprised to hear so much opposition to Noycs Bros, managing tho trams. Noyes Bros, had had a very difficult job, the work having been done piecemeal, but they lwd dono remarkably well. Ho was satisfied tho tramways would never bo managed so cheaply as at tho present time. They practically had two traffic managers, for Mr Shepherd was always about. If Noyes Bros.' services were dispensed with they would vequiro a manager and an electrical engineer,' for which they would liavo to pay at least £1000, and Noyes Bros, were doing it for £500. Ho intended to support the report of the committee. Cr Lawrencc supported tho motion. If Noyes Bros, would accept further service for six months the council could at once set about advertising for a manager, and they would have a competent man ready to lake over the work when Noyes Bros.' term had expired. Cr Walker felt he had a real grievance. Ho had withdrawn his motion regarding the tramway management a month ago on the undertaking being given by the chairman of the Tramways Committee that tho matter would !:o reported 011 at the next meeting. It was not a question of any feeling against Noves Bros. They, all knew that Noyes Bros, wero not going to remain with the city always, and the prudent thing to do was to get the applications for a manager well forward so that if the new manager was coming from outside there would be 110 break in tho continuity of management. He would support the amendment. If itwas nccessary to tho proper management of the trams that passengers should leave by tho front doors of the cars a notice to that effect should be posted in a prominent place in every car. At present not one conductor in six insisted 011 tho rulo being observed. Cr Scott said that two and a-half years ago the town clerk was authorised to obtain the city solicitors' opinion on Noyes Bros.' position under their agreement, and the gist of the opinion was that, with the exception of the conductors, Noyes Bros, had charge of tho motormen, the perma-nent-way men, the overhead men, and the powerhouse men for 11 period of six mouths after the completion of the whole scheme. If that, was so tho proposed manager would control only a few conductors. That was what it amounted to. He believed that as soon as Noyes Bros.' timo was up thoy would not keep on tho management any longei than' ihey could help. When the council discussed tramway matters generally ; t could also discuss what form the management should take. There was a wido difference between a manager and an elt'ctrical engineer, and the council should decide which class of man they would place in charge of the tramway ostein, He believed that if the amendment was carried Noyes Bros, would resign as far as the management, was concerned. A man with any stamina at all would not stand that sort of thing. There lmd been too much of this pin-pricking. There was nothing in it; it was based entirely on the talk of the man at the street corner. He hoped that councillors would rise to their position as gentlemen, and not descend to the tactics that had been followed by sonic parties in the past. Tho Mavor said that tho older members of the Tramways Committee bad eono thoroughly into the matter, and concluded that under tho circumstances, and until the tramways wero complete, it was clearly in the interests of the corporation to continue the management, under present conditions. New members of the council could not pretend to understand tho minuta? of the question as the older members did, but when they had been a little longer 011 the commiltce lie thought they would see that the best thing to do was to continue the management under Noycs Bros. Ho was also of opinion that it was very unwise to attael; Noyes Bros, on their management. If thoy wero to compare the work per car-mile with that of Auckland, Wellington, or Christehurch, and the cost of same, ihey would find that Duncdin had made the best bargain. Some councillors had suggested that the committee had neglected certain things. As a matter of fact it bad not. It simply said that the time, was not opportune to deal with them. At another timo it could deal with all tlie.se matters, and that, being tho position ho could not understand tho indecent hnstc that had been shown, by some members of the council. There was another aspectof the queslioil. It waj understood that next August the Waipori power would bo into the city, and could uo used for revenue purposes. Tho council might then see fit to appoint an electrical engineer to carry out the duties appertaining, not only to tho tramways, but to Waipori as well. Cr Crust asked if a letter bad been re-ceived-from the Ambulance Association asking for a pass 011 tho tramways, If tliere had been such a request made and declined lie thought the council should have been made acquainted with the fact.' Considering tho good work tho Ambulance Association did its request was one that might, in his opinion, very well have been granted. Tho amendment was lost by six votes to 11, the voting being: For tho amendment— Grs Walker, Connor. Wilson, Burnett. Harrison, and Shacklock; against—the Mayor, Cm Goro, Crust-. Arkle, Loudon, Cole, Riley, Small, Lawrencc. Scott, and Brinsley. Cr Loudon, in replying, said 110 was not responsible for the matter of the management of the trams not having been brought up sooner, as promised Cr Walker. He was prepared to do so at the time promised, but was requested to defer it. The decision just eomo to was, he thought, a. wise one, and between now and August 17 they would be able to map out very clearly what thoy wanted in tho way of management. As had been pointed out, when flip. Waipori selicmo was completed they would probably require a quite a different electrical engineer from what was required for tho tramwpys nlone. They would want an engineer with high tension transmission experiand possibly bo, able, to make a much belter arrangement if they waited for a. few months. Ho was quite certain that tho cost of management now was cheaper than it would be in the future, because they would require, an engineer who would want at Jeasfc £600 "or £700, and a manager £400 or £500 a year. Ho could nofc give tho exact, figures about the purchase of the copper wire for tho transmission line, but ho did not think there was much variation in -price between October and the present time—£2 or £3 n ton lie was given to understand. The question had been raised, that, whether by waiting' a few months loncrcr, thoy might not save £20 or £30 n ton. but there, was no guarantee that tho price would not go up further instead of come down, or oven remain stationary. However, Mr Goodman was very insistent, and pointed out that tho delay of three or four months would mean far more than what might bo lost, bv purchasing the wire at present. .He had not Heard anvlhing about the change in stooping-places in the Oastlo street service, but would inquire about it from the management. With regard to the appb'cation of the Ambulance Association for a free pass, it was w»ll known to-councillors that it had-been derided that absolutely no free passes wore

to be granted. Some very deserving applications had come before the committee, but a. hard and fast, rulo having been laid down no exception could bo made. The report was adopted on the voices. TRAM FARE CONCESSIONS. - Motion Ruled Out of Order. Cr Loudon, in accordance with notice of motion, moved—" With a view to affording relief to families and bona Jido residents in tho two-penny and three-penny city tramway areas, that from April 1 next books of 80 two-penny faro residents' coupons for 9s, and 80 three-penny residents' coupons for 12s bo issued; such coupons to be only available for use to or from the sectional terminals stated thereon and not to be transferable. No person other than, the original purchaser, whoso namo appears on the cover of tho coupon book, to bo allowed to use a residents' coupon in payment of a fare." Tho mover said that while not in favour of making any all-round reduction, in faros until the exact position of the tramways in regard to their capabilities had been ascertained, he thought that residents in two-penny and three-penny areas should got some concession. Ho" felt that to tax Cr Scott- rose hero to a point of order. Some time ago, ho said, tho council came to a resolution on a similar motion, and it was decided that the time was inopportune. The previous resolution would need to be rescinded before Cr Loudon could move his motion. Cr Loudon said the previous motion was entirely different, and applied to fares all round. Tho Mayor said that to his mind tho point raised by Cr Scott, was fatal to the consideration of tho question that evening. In the Tramways Committee's report on November 8 was tho statement: "After carefully considering the petition for the reduction of tram fares to St. Clair, tho committee reports tho timo as inopportune to make the reduction in fares, and cannot recommend the same." Part of Cr Loudon's motion was involved in this resolution, so ho must rule Cr Loudon out of order. Before Cr Loudon's motion would be in order, ho would liavo to move that tho resolution passed by the council on November 8 bo rescinded with the view of substituting his own motion. That not having been done, he had no option but to rulo tho motion out of order. Cr Loudon: That resolution referred specifically to St. Clair: mine does not do so. . The Mayor said St. Clair was involved with the inclusion of two-penny and threepenny areas. Cr Loudon: I think this is straining tho matter very far. Cr Gore said he strongly opposed the motion, but ho thought it. quite in order. The Mayor: Of course that is a difference of opinion; it is very easy for Cr Loudon to bring tho matter un again.. Cr Loudon said he thought he was being treated rather unfairly. The Mayor objected to the word "unfairly," and at his request Cr Loudon withdrew it. Discussion then dropped.