ARBITRATION COURT.

Otago Daily Times, Issue 13386, 12 September 1905, Page 3

ARBITRATION COURT.

(Bf.Oim Special Heportes.) ' • OHEPUKI, September 11,

: The members of the Arbitration Court yesterflay visited the Waiau River, and inspected tho unexploitcd maiden bush oil that side. >\ The'hearing of the oawmiilers' dispute was continued this morning, Mr Scott appearing for, tho employers, ajid Mr Paapo for tho workers. - ,

Jlr Paape called Alfred Clode, mill engincarivcr at, M'Oallum's mill, Colac Bay. He had worked for 20 years in tho Longwood, but this year had had experience at Knight's toiaia mill at Hawke's Bay. At present ho ivorked B7 hours a week, and occasionally worked on Sundays cleaning- boilers—generally for two hours, on alternate Sundays. He was mot pax! lor such Sunday work, and thought he should be paid. It was the custom for drivers to get their own firewood, and at some mills to cut it. An engine-driver was also expected to do planing and'other work. That was r. sweating aygteni, and it was not safe when a driver diusuch work. He had no protection for his certificate. He wrote complaining to the chief inspeotor of machinery, and tho inspector replied from Wellington that every driver of an engine must ho'.d a certificate, and .the driver mus l ; not do anything to interfere with the completo and effective charge of his engine. When 1 witness was working a, planing machine 3io practically had no charge whatever oi his engine. In the North Island lie was offered 10s Gd a day to take charge of a second-class oigiue. The general rate there was considerably over the minimum. His present wago was 1)3 :v day At Hawke's Bay he did nothing but look atteT liis engine. In that district a driver never left his engine. AV-hen ho worked extra up there' he was paid overtime at ordinary rates. Thero was no Sunday work. The union demand for Southland as to drivers was reasonable.—To Mr Scott: He had r.ever been paid for cleaning boiltrs. That had always been part of his job. Ho was a married man, but family reasons prevented his (returning to Hawke's Bay.

Michael Dowling, tally man in charge of the Southland Sawmiiling Company's No. 3 mill at. Orepuki, had been empioyed about nine years in Southland—at Tisbury, Kapuka, Kenjiii'.gton, Wright's Bush, Waimaln. and Orepuki. He had worked most on flat country. In his opinion tho precentage of mills on the hills was not now so high as had been stated. The timber at Orepuki was heartwood and was superior to that at Seaward Bush. Tho timber at Seaward Bush was more sappy. When heartwood was ordered it was more, valuable. There was a fair demand for that timber. He had seen no difference in the classification of timber during the last seven years. At tho Orepuki mill tho output oi whito pine was next to nothing, not moro than 4000 ft in two years. Thero was practically none last month. There might be 2000 ft in tho mill r.Mogetlk-r now. Tho freight from Orepuki was 3s on Ted pino, but that on white pine was less. Prom Orepuki to Invercargiil it was 2s, but most of the timber went to Dunedin. From Invercargiil to Dunedin tho freight was, ho thought, 2s 7d. He couid not say what tho freight was from Seaward Bush to Dunedin, but he did not think it was 3s 7d. Between Orepuki and Seaward Bush the railage was to Duneclin only about 2d different. Taking the whole output or tho mill he should say that rough timber would be Ss Gd. Mr Erown: Has lu. sufficient access to the books to know the prico. Does ho know the allowances made? Mr Scott: Jio, he knows nothing at all about it. Witness said that dressed timber, excluding jnouldiiigs and small items, would be about 12s. Prices were liable to a reduction of percentage, but the actual price received all round would be about 9s. Tho percentage of firstclass timber would be about 60 dressed. He should say the Oregon imported was junk timber.

Mr Brown: Have you any actual knowledge? I think you can get that timber any size you like, and got it sawn anyhow you choose. 1 know that as a fact.

"Witness said that he paid the men monthly on tho 7th. He had only worked at one mill where payment was by cheque, and sometimes difficulty arose in changing the cheques. He would sooner bs paid cash. Thero were next to no ken', sales.—To Mr Scott: He had a fair knowledge of the price of timber. Ked pino ■uas sold to tho Dunedin merchant at 22£ per cent, off 8s Gd, plus railage. Ho did not know the chaig'ed-up prices now, but at cno mill he had to do so. The prices might bo cut in Dunedin. He knew tho ruling prices, but he could not, swear that the discount was 22J per cent. There was not the least difference iii classification. He had had' no complaints about his classification. If lie had classcd his timber wrongly ho should hear about it. EdwaTd ileagcr, slabinan at .Wilson Bros.' mill at Pallia, said he only wGTked eight hours a day, and cleaned up during working hours. He had never.been called on to do any work outside his 18 hours. Ho was paid 8s a day, and lis did not think 7s 6d would bo a fair wage. ' The work- was very Jioavy.—To Mr Scott- He was formerly; felling on liis own account.

William Eobey Said ho lad been trollyman at the Southland Sawmiiling Coinpany's mill at Orepuki for about four years. He once worked at Waipori Falls, and got his money there. -At present ho got up at 5.30 and fed and oleaned his horses. Ho had soven horses, and ho generally spent about five minutes on each horse—sometimes more. After attending his horses he had his breakfast and filled up his trucks with wood. Ho generally finished at,' a or 5.30 p.m. Ho got nothing extra, for looking 'aiter his horses. He got 10s a day full time. Trollymen should be full time men. When the mill was full-handed they had two trollymen, and delays were caused, which wre very incouvcnient. The union demand was reasonable.

This closccl the evidence for tlie workers. Mr Scott called Thomas Edmond Traill, millowner, Riverton, who is owner of mills eight miles up the Pourapourakino. Witness's mills had been going six years'. He was previously working as a sawmill hand. He had worked right through previous to starting his own business. At tho start they worked 1 on the flat. Tho wages sheet on the flat wa3 from =£130 to £140, and at present on the hills it was from £200 to £210 for the same timber. Insuranco rates had gone up. Six years ago the rate was 12s per £100. The co3t of production also increased all along as they went back. Eo and his brothers worked with the men, and if they dici not do so they could not carry on. Fire risks were now £7 per £100. Selling prices were not rising. They sold first-class timber on tho trucks at Eiverton at 5s 6d, less 2J per cent. They sold right out to a middleman in Dunedin, but if the demand fell witness had to put up with it. Ho was much, worse off than in 1902, and had he known that the conditions were going to change as' they had done ho would not have agreed to the minimum in 1902. The general

wage when ho started six years' ago was 7s a day. . Tho men wero certainly not working as well 10-day as they did previously; under tho lower wage. He had much trouble with menj and previously had very little. It was harderto work with bullocks than with the hauling engine. Bushmen had to make better tracks with tho bullocks. In Southland men hadalways beea changing about. Most of the mills were mow working single-handed, and men had to go elsewhere. ".The men in Southland had better accommodation now than tlicy ever had previously. Witness found that mari ricd men would stop in-the bush huts; provided for weeks, hut the single irien would' not stop a night. Working men's hoiise rents had, increased a shilling a week in lliverton since the award. Men were "tuckered" for 13s 6d a week. jJhat was the highest price ever' charged, and the cost of living to the in'en had not increased in six years.' Witness had never had a very serious accident. "With one exception, tho work was not as wearing as mining. Ho towed his timber to Riverton on a punt. Sometimes punts broke.atvay in a-five-knot current, and a load would be lost, which would mean a serious loss in other ways owing to the delay in filling orders. His men went every Saturday at 2.30. This year, with the exception of Easter, when tho men went away, the average working days in his mill were 24 a month. Pour of hi?',men wero originally sailors, and one was a printer. Men soon got into the work. Men had to be paid the award wages straight away, and/that waa a great loss to . the employer. A good niam could always command good wages. The rates the union asked for boys was ridiculous. Boys at tho mills were already getting more than boys employed at other trades in other districts.—To Mr Paape: He gave his buslimen 93 a day before this agreement, because they said that was paid in other mills. Ho paid what men were worth. Men to whom ho first gave 9s were dismissed "because tlicy were not worth it. Ho had complained'about,men not doing proper work. The men had to do no harder work now than they did on the flat. Thomas Moore, of Moore and Sons, Riverton, said that his mill was at the head of the Pourapourakino, employing 40 to 45 hands. The difficulties of handling wero great. Tlicy brought tho timber eight miles by locomotive, and then into liiverton by boat. The railway cost them £6000 or £7000. Timber was handled six times before it was trucked.' They, sold to a merchant at 5s 6d, less 2£ per cent. They .could stand no further increase in wages. They would never have started the business had they foreseen the existing award. He was in general agreement with the evidence of Mr Traill. Men worked better before the award. -He worked amongst them, and ho knew his firm boarded and " tuckered" tho men and put up huts for them. He kept a cook, and charged the men 14s a .week accommodation free. Sometimes men complained that they could " tucker" themselves for Bs. Ho got 4s Gd a week foi a five-roomed house in lliverton. Men who went from Southland to the north wore glad to come back. Ho had applications from four men anxious to come to Southland from Shannon now. The rcduotion of the minimum wage would not interfere with good men. The industry had moro than it could carry. If the association shut up tho small millers would have to shut down.—To Mr Paape: Witness knew of no other mills in Southland where tiiubei had so many handlings. He believed that men could board themselves on 8s a week if they chose.—To Mr Scott: There was a good deal oi tot-iira on his section. Totara was a high-priced wood, and would average 7s"Gd,'but three-fourths of tho timber was sold ill tho rough, and the allround average would only be about Gs on,— To Mt Paape: Tho average price for rough red pine would be about os. Ho was nothound by the association, hut if tho association broke up it would result in a general cutting of prices. W. H. Brent (recalled) said that Gi mills wero cited in 1902 independent of Owaka» and Cntlins. Mr Paapo'a statement of mills working on tho hills to-day omitted at least 11 mills. Mr Paape showed H mills working on the fiats, but six of thorn were cutting out. This complet3d tho evidence in the case. Mr Scott said he did not propose to deal with the evidence. The agreement in 1901-2 was the first experience tho omploj'crs had oi the act, and they did not rcaliso that they were laying down a precedent. Things were good, and the workers were met- in a generous spirit The employers now icalised that tho minimum was too high. Men came green from other callings, and went straight to work at from 8s to 9s a day, and the employore wero feeling tho pinch. The evidence showed that had the employers understood what the income clauso meant 'they would havo foreseen its selfishness- A man who left had to be replaced at once, and the employers could not hunt round. Tho new man had to bo put on and paid the minimum wage, duffer or not. A good man always earned his wage, and would not be affected by any change in the a,ward. In a sliOTt time the timber would all como from rough country in tho hills. Thero was already no margin of profit. The evidence of ftciderer showed that ho was working himself on the flat alongside a railway station, and was barely making it pay. Many of tho companies in the Longwood had to givo up. One or two of the bigger companies with bush still' on tile 'flat, and with financial and other facilities, had been cblo to do pretty well, but the court had to think of the many and not of tho fov.\ Tile general feeling of the employers was that as long as the industry would stand it a good man would get his money, but tho industry was in jeopaidy because incompetent men, got the same wage as competent men. Tho competent man was discouraged, but tho incompetent man felt secure. This sort of thing was felt in other industries, which would have to be nursed rather than hampered. In sawmiiling there were serious rock 3 ahead. It was to the interest oi the men as'well as tho masters that tho industry should not be burdened. If the court cou'id not see its way to reduce tho minimum, one or two cases demanded consideration, particularly with regard to tailers-out, who wero practically labourers, for whom 7s would be a- fair wage/ and so with second engine-drivers, hauling engine-drivers, and second bushmen. Those men needed no skill, and they should not bo paid the same as tho skilled men with whom, thev wdrked. The same applied to the two tramway layers. An assistant ishould not have the same pay as the first man. As to the wage 3 of boys, tho court would see that the wages asked were far too high. A wsgo of Gs a day for a boy of 16 was a preposterous demand. As for the trollymen, some men handled two horses and some seven, but tho workers wanted to fix the minimum with regard to tho men working seven. The employers could not pay tho bushmen so we'll as they, would like amply because tho minimum for indifferent workers was too high. Tho ease affected a great industry, which ill Southland was of the first importance.

■ Mr Psapo said that it was his duty to remind tho court lliait ho had not had the experience that the . representatives of the workers in other parts of the colony had had. Ho thanked tho court for its courtesy and patience. It was to be regretted that the employers said that the men woro not working as well as they used to. Tho men worked"very hard, and the stigmat caet on them was regrettable. No employer had complained of that to the union, though in isolated cases men had been dismissed. As to tha position of the industry, the workers admitted that there'was not the same output, but the number of men employed in the timbea industry had gone up. Largo mimbor3 of mills had been put up, and tho industry was moro widely distributed. The men said tho average working timo was 22 to 23 days a month. Mr Timpany said the actual time lost was only eight days through bad weather and other causes, but that there were still only 277 days per year worked. H» (Mr Paape) could not understand the statement that if that mill had worked 277 days in theyear it did not apply to the other mills, although 277' days was practically in harmony with the statement made by the men. Mr M'lntyro was paying nearly all his men moro than the award, and Messrs Broad, Small, and Co.'s mill, the roughest in the district, ras paying stil! higher wages, '

Mr Scott: The mil! never paid. Mr Paape said that nothing of flio sort had been said to the man in charge. 11l regard to llio incompetency clsuss, they-found that the employers had never complained to the union, (hough in two cases of incompetence the union had permitted and condoned what was practically a breach of the award. The employers had never really given the o'.ausß a trial, and the clause should be retained. A great deal had been said about the prioes, The employers gave the prices of the various timbers, and then said that those priccs were not obtained at all. It was said that the price was Gs Cd, and that if the association split up the state of the industry would be chaos; but Mr Mcoro, one of the small millers wlio was supposed ,to be .underselling tho association, was getting Cs 9d. No books had bedn' produced in proof of tho employers'' statements, and the principal sawmillers had not • been brought before the couri'. It was impossibio to get good men to go to some of the mills at all. The railago was not chargod from Orepulti and Gorge road to Invercargill and' thence to Dunedin, but direct from'Orepuki and Gorge road to Dunedin at a reduced rate. The employers' objection to thf minimum wage was not reasonable, in view of the time lost and the fact thftt onaiiy men wero getting much more than the award rates. Fu'ly <0 or 50 per cent, of the men were receiving pay in excess of the As to the tramways, the assistant bail to be as skilful or moro skilful than the first tramway man, being mostly employed on repairs. A farm, labourer getting 25s a.week with board and washing.and the comforts of a' homo wag-better off .than t-Ke sawmilleEs working brpken time. Everything that interrupted mill work tcld against the pay of tho men. His Honor;said: Wo .will give our award at as cariy a date as possible, consistently with tho fact that thoro is a good deal ol work waiting over at Dunedin. As to tho, manner in whioli the cases have been conducted,; it is sufficient for'mo to that we are'.sa.tisfied ! that wo have the matter' fully bsfore us on both sides. ; ' ' .; ; ; The'court left for Eiverton by toad at 4 p.m.; and to-morrow will tfi© fell Bill} PfiW»P3ujakin9, -' ::