SUNDAY TRAMS.

Otago Daily Times, Issue 11401, 19 April 1899, Page 6

SUNDAY TRAMS.

CONFERENCE BETWEEN MINISTERS AND TRAAIWAY DIRECTORS. '

A conference between committees of the Dunedin Presbytery and the Dunedin Ministers' Conference, and the- directors of the various tramway companies in' Dunedin, wa. held at the Agricultural Hall yesterday afternoon. The , ministers present were the Revs. A. North, I. Jolly, E. C. Tennent, G. Heighway, T. G. Brooke, R. R. Mi Sutherland, and AA. Hewitson. Messrs G. Fenwick and D. R. Eunson (manager) represented the City. and Suburban Tramway Company; Messrs J. Mitchell and G. Esther, the Mornington Tramway Company; and Messrs P. Duncan and R. Martin,, the Roslyn Tramway ; Company, ,

The Rev. Air Sutherland said some time ago the Dunedin Ministers' Conference con sidored tbe subject of Sabbath tram traffic, and they came to the Conclusion that it was a great evil in the -community—that it went, a long way towards destroying the quiet and sanctity of the Sabbath, and in that way contributed largely towards thp deterioration ,of publio sentiment and of tho oiitire; community. Thoy discussed the mallei and sent* a committee to tho Dunedin Presbytery, .who also considered it, and appointed a committee to meet the directors of tho tramway companies, and sec what could be done to get the evil done away with. He was convener Jof the presbytery's committee, . and he therefore called that meeting that day; and ho was pleased that so many, of the directors of the. different companies had come to the meeting. He would call upon Air.Hewitson to begin, 'to represent the ministers' grievances. . / ! The Rev. AY. Hewitson said he supposed the ministers were there in a twofold .capacity -^as citizens of Dunedin, and also as Christian men. They came there on the grounds of humanity, and also on the grounds of religion.- They! recognised the- Sabbath as a Divine institution.. It existed' for the purpose of religion and rest, having regard for the soul of man. and, also for. the. body of ,mau. It appeared to him that these two purposes were closely connected; and co far as his observation of human nature-went it was certainly true that if a man disregarded, religion he would have no qualms about working for himself. He thought, it followed ;in the matter of communities that where there was no strong religious life it would be found thai no Sabbath day was observed as a'day -${ rest. The tramway, companies who were represented by the directors present .were tbe largest employers of Sunday labour that, we had in the community. He,did.not know-of Any company.or business running their business seven days in the'week, except the companies represented there that day.' . Mr Esther: AVhat about.the shipping companies and the railways? ■•'-'. !

The Rev. Mr Hcwitson said-a shipping company stood upon a somewhat different footing to a land company. In* moving.- in this matter he recognised very distinctly tbat there was a difference of opinion and a. difference of practice in regard to tlio matter. There was a difference of practice oh tlio part of a great many who were perfectly heedless" of anything that did not concern their own pleasure, and there -was • a.-difference pf practice on tho part of those who'were as interested in the welfare of the community, and whose religious convictions were quite as strong as his own. He, however, thought /it probable that those who represented the tl-arn companies, if they could have their own way, would be found.acting along the lines lie was speaking, and possibly the conference would have the effect of creating a sentiment which would strengthen the hands of the directors of those companies. '-.....'■ Rev. A. North endorsed the'remarks of Mr Hewitson. His own . feeling was that' every man should have'one day's rest in seven; ami if he'was debarred from getting that he stiffened physically, mentally, and morally. Drivers and tramway conductors were largely debarred of' that which was theirs, he believed, by Divine right. If they : could help each other to restore to those men their rights and preserve them, it would be a very happy thing. The Ministers' Conference had approached the Union Steam Ship-Company with reference to what they supposed ivoi-e unnecessary sailings on Sunday;.' and tho directors assured them that, they would do their utmost to diminish those sailings. . How • ever, the question aro.se whether it would not be possible in this city to secure for tramway employees a day of rest. Ho did not know whether a tramway company could determine the profit and loss as, regards finance from Sunday travelling; but' he thought there were factors • that went info the sum that could not be represented, by figures. It was to the advantage of employers of labour that their employees should lie brisk, bright, and in good physical condition. The fact of their employees Ming out .of con-dition-to ... slight extent tokh'no doubt veiiy considerably against t|te-employers! interests. He, therefore,. submitted that instead, of it proving profitable to run tramcarson Sunday,' it might possibly prove 'otherwise. ' But even if there was a loss by stopping the, Sunday traffic, his' conviction- was that the directors and the shareholders they represeiited had enough public spirit to be prepared tq suffer some reasonable loss rather than inflict an injury'upon another/ The Rey.-T. G. Brooke, speaking as the representative of one of the suburban churches, said that it was recognised, to'be a great injustice, especially to ' young men. that they should be deprived, of their day's. rest. By working oh Sunday they were cut off. from that which, to some of them, was the greatest source of healthfulness and all that tended to the higher life. .It was recognised by artisans generally that tbe violation of the. Sabbath was detrimental to their highest interests, and be had gathered from a niupber of them tha* few. of their number used the tramways on the Sabbath day. 7 Tho Rev. I. Jolly referred to his experience with regard to tramway running on.the Sabbath in Glasgow, and said that the employees were practically heathenised by the custom. He pointed out that if employees here worked on the Sabbath, the tendency would be to produce similar results.

_Mr O. Fenwick said, he was not prepared to discuss this question in all its bearings tbat day; but there were features jjn connection with the running of Sunday trains to which he might refer. If the City and Suburban Tramway Company were lo stop the trams on Sunday a great fillip would bo given to cabs, drags, and 'busses, which ply already in sufficiently large , numbers; and the company would not only lose tbe revenue which it at present earned from tbe Sunday traffic, but such serious opposition to it would be created on other days of the week that its revenue would suffer very seriously indeed. To adopt the course suggested might indeed moan that the company would have to" go out of existence. Before the directors could favourably consider the proposal to stop Sunday traffic it would be absolutely necessary for the company to be guarded against such opposition as he had indicated. Thai- was an aspect of the question to which the. movers in Ibis matter must devote their attention before the City Tramway Company could listen to their proposals. He would also like to say that there was not the extent of work in connection with the tramway company on Sunday that many .people probably imagined. The company had in its emnloy soniethinf

like 130 men. Ot that number more than hall ' did not work at all on .Sunday,,' and hilly half of the remainder got off work in rotation. Sometimes the high did not work more thaii two hours and a-half, their timo varying from two hours and a-half to nijioibours. Tiro company had had very ljtUe—indeed, he did not know that they bad had any—-remonstrance from the mon with regard to the way lhey were treated. .■'.. Mr Eunson : None whatever. Mr Fonwick thought the employee*, on. the whole, were fairly satisfied with the service; : and things were made as pleasant as possible for them. 110 promised to put the matter that had been discussed before his co-directors at their next meeting, and he said they would honestly consider the question, but he was' afraid nothing practioal would result from the conference. ' Mr P. Duncan, speaking for the Roslyn Tramway Company, said lie did not think that Ihore could be the-'slightest complaint with reference to the .men suffering morally or physically by Sundfiy work. The men did not work every Sunday, and the companydid not work them on Sunday to mako money. They were paid lfloro on .Sundays than on ordinary days. The compiiiVy started 18 years ago, and the men who wero middle-aged then had grown old now, and they found that* they could not toil up the hill. On Sundays thoy wanted to go to church, and they therefore, urged the company lo run tho tramways: They were, indeed, the first to do so. AVhat wero they going to say to these,people. As for Sunday work, ho had never yet discovered any condition of life thai did not put somebody to work on Sunday. The question of revenue was nothing -so lar as the Roslyn tramway was concerned. Sunday trains were demanded by the Residents.,^nd that was why lhey were run. He did rtof wish to'mako any rash promises as to what the directors' of the company would.doI'm regard lo the matter, becaiiGO ho did not think anything would come of the conference. So strongly did one council feel on the'inattet'* that they insisted that tbo company should run on Sundays.

- Air Alitchell said hi^experiencc iii regard lo the Mornington Tranrwa.f'vpompany was that the principal sinners in;,regard to riding on its cars on Sundays were the, men and women who went to Dunedin churches. He (himself), many years ago, moved in the direction of abolishing Sunday traffic, and was successful in getting it .stripped on the extension line, but could hot succeed iii stopping the traffic on the main line. AVhen he .beard of the number of people who came lo town by-the trams on Sunday, he thought that the city churches, would suffer more or less if tbe Sunday traffic were to cease. He quite agreed with the principlo that no work should be dono on Sunday.'.but the first stop to bo taken was to educate public opinion on the subject. -;:

Mr Esther said- that-it!!.struck him very forcibly tbat a great proportion of those who travelled on the trams .'oil - Sundays were undoubtedly church-going.people. If ministers would impress upon'these people tbat it was not .a right thing to travel on Sunday, the traffic would be vory mv.li reduced, and there would be no difficulty in dealing with the directoi-3 of the company. If there w-era no passengers'the traffic would die out.

Mr Clnsliolm said one thing should bo known with regard* to running tbe Roslyn tramway on Sunday. The Roslyn tramway did not run on Suijday for 13 years, and they were only compelled to do co by a resolution of the City Council. The most crowded cars on Sunday wero those which ran when .t'tie churches were coming'out; and there was a very strong feeling- on Ihe. part of those who regularly attended, the churches .that the trains should run. He himself opposed.the running of the Roslyn trams on Sunday, and among those who took him to book for doing so were a good many of the people who attended Knox Church.

Mr Eunson stated that it was a great part of his- duty to cater for churches in connection Avith Sunday traffic.

Air Fenwick said that the company carried about' 700 people every Sunday from the churches. . . . ' .

The Rev. Alt- Hewitson thought .that some good:result would come of the conference, and moved a hearty vote of thanks to the directors of Ihe tramway companies for giving them so much of their time, for tho frank way in which they had met the ministers, and for the .cordial, expression? ,of symnatliy lyith their desire to secure rest on tlio Lord's day.

The Rev. I. Jollyj.seconded the motion, which was carried unanimously. ' ..