PRESBTTERIAN UNION.

Otago Daily Times, Issue 11263, 5 November 1898, Page 6

PRESBTTERIAN UNION.

DISCUSSION IN THE SYNOD.

THE QUESTION POSTPONED

The question of union between the Presbyterian Church- of- New Zealand 'and' the Presbyterian Church of Otago and Southland again came up for consideration at last night's meeting of the synod.

The Rev. \W Bannerman said that the business to be taken .in. accordance with the resolution at the adjournment on the previous . night, was the consideration of the basis of union, but a notice of motion had been given. ■ The Rev. J. Gibb said that the motion would naturally come as an amendment to the motion which it wyuld have fallen to him to move under ordinary circumstances.

Dl- \Vatt stated that he had tabled the motion under a misapprehension, and he thought that perhaps after all it would be best if he withdrew it, and he asked leave to do so.

Permission to withdraw the motion having been granted, , ■ Mr Gibb said it would have fallen to him to have gone on, in terms of the resolution passed on the previous night, to move the reaffirmation of article 3 of the basis of union. He proposed to withdraw, with the leave of the synod, that motion and to substitute the following: " Postpone meanwhile further discussion on the basis of union ; retain the committee; instruct it to confer with the leaders of the minority and the union committee of the Northern Church with the view of ascertaining whether any, and what modifications, of the present basis would be likely to unite all parties."

Permission was unanimously given to Mr Gibb to move that motion.

Mr Gibb then said that he proposed, to indicate the nature of the reasons which had led him to submit this motion for the consideration of the synod, winch he gathered from the apparent temper of the synod would be unanimously accepted. He at any rate trusted it would. The Duke of Wellington said once that the next saddest thing to a battle lost, was a battle won. That was particularly true, when, owing to circumstances over which one had no control, the due fruits of the victory could not be reaped. He distinctly recognised that, they coukl not go on with any sure hope of success in their mission wlrile so large a minority of the synod was opposed to them. .—(Applause.) Even ,if they had carried, as he hoped they would be carried, article 3 by a majority which would at least have been equal to the majority of the preceding night—and it was very likely there would have been little difference in the voting, inasmuch as the nature of the amendment was really a subversion of article 3—if, he repeated, they carried article 3 by a majority as great as that of the preceding night, and when they came to the final motion had succeeded in increasing their majority, even then the minority would likely have been too large for them 'm hope finally for complete success, especially in view of Hi? fact that before the union could be absolutely accomplished they must obtain legislative sanction to the bill appended in the report now under consideration. If there had been no appeal to Parliament the union tvould have been already de facto accomplished. The synod had carried a very important measure —the marriage of a deceased wife's sister —on a majority of three. They certainly could have carried union on a majority of 25. It might not have beer. wise, evsn if they had not had to appeal to Parliament, to stand by their rights. Perhaps there might be, he trusted there was, an extreme probability of their finding during the next 12 months, some solution of their difficulties. —(Hear, hear.) He thought the situation was not b;, r any means hopeless.-— (Hear, hear.) He stood by all he had said on the previous day- and the day before, as, to the dismal results to the Otago Church if union should be abandoned. Deep down in his heart were the ye.vm'ng and hope that they might yet come to see eye to eye' in this matter. He bolieved they were desirous of getting rid of those difficulties, and while he had a very strong conviction that the basis proposed was the best of all bases which could possibly be formulated, he trusted that a modus Vivendi' would be found, and that tlie Union Committee would in the next. 12 months bo able to adjust matters on the one hand with the iriends on the other side, and on the other hand with tie Northern Assembly. He hoped that he would be in the happy position next year of seeing a unanimous synod and vote in favour of the proposition of the Union Committee. He could not indeed speak, arid it would be extremely unwise if he were to speak, f.rr the Union Committee as to w; at membe.-s of that committee micrht be prepared to do in tho way of concession's. The committee of union had not yet considered this matter. It would require very careful, painstaking, and long-continued consideration. Without in any way committing the committee of union, yet as a member of that committee, he might be permitted to say, and speaking for himself alone, he should be prepared to concede ecclesiastical functions tothe Otago Synod—such ecclesiastical functions as were enjoyed by the provincial synods of the churches in' Scotland. Mr Finlayson was to have moved, he understood, a motion, to this effect: "'That article 3 be amended by the inserting . ' provincial synods' after ' presbyteries,' and by providing that while synodical operations may remain in abeyance throughout the bounds of the Northern Church, such operations shall continue in the Synod of Otago and Southland " Mr Finlayson: Stop there.— (Laughter.) Mr Gibb: You want me to stop there? There is more. ■ '

Mr J'inlayson: That is all I intended to move.

Mr Gibb continued, and said that the part of Mr Finlayson's intended mot'onwhich' he had not read was just in line with another concession he was prepared tc make. He would be prepared, as he had said, to concede ecclesiastical' functions to the Otago Synod and also this, that in the constitution: of tho united 'church it should be slated in article' 3 or somewhere else that as soon as! circumstances might render it advisable the church might have a representative assembly. But till, circumstances did render it desirable all ministers of the church and an elder from each session should have a seat in the assembly. Ho trusted, in the interests of peace and for the furtherance of1 the union question, and also because of the business of the synod itself, the motion. would be unanimously accepted.—(Applause.) The Ilev. R. R. M. Sutherland had much pleasure in seconding the motion.— (Applause.) In speaking the other night he mentioned that the Union Committee had at last appointed a deputation to confer with those in the synod who did not agree with' them." He had some difficulty in coming to a conclusion as to whether that was a confession of conscious weakness or a, sign of coming wisdom, One thing he was sure of was that it was a sign of grace. This motion made it clear that the committee was at last coming to its senses. —(Applause.) He thought the motion moved by Ml1 Gibb was the only sensible motion' -. in /the- "circumstances.— (Hear, hear.) What those had' felt who had not agreed with the proppsals of the Union Committee was this: When the subject was taken up in 1892 the synod laid down certain lines upon which a satisfactory basis would need to be constructed. That "was sent up to the Northern Church, and the representatives of the two churches met in conference, and they put to one. side the lines that the synod had laid down as the only lines that would, he understood, be satisfactory to the synod. The representatives of- the synod accepted the new lines substituted for the lines which had been laid down, and since then those who took the viow of the matter that he did felt that the Union party bad tried to force union- upon these new lines upon the synod. Every year the .question came up> tliat feeling -was .'intensified; < but now the Union Committee had come to. a better state of mind, to a saner state1 of mind, and the proposal of Ml".Gibb was in his estimation altogether satisfactory' in the-;'present situation. There'1 was to', be no more forcing ; there .was, to( be quiet, calm,'deliberate, serious, honest ■ conference all round to see if they could not come to a common understanding. That, was exactly his idea as to what ought to be done in the situation, and what. ought to have been done at the beginning. If that had been dor.c at the beginning /.they, might to-day have been within reasonable sight of union.

The Rev. A. M. Finlayson thought that, instead of the Union Committee communicating with the leaders of the opposition,

KEEP YOUR VEATHER EYE OPEN, And do not be deceived with imitations of Wolfe's Schnapps. The original has.' a fine flavour, and is an excellent stimulant. -29

it would be an improvement '.. to bring a few of those who were' recognised as -leaders of the opposition into the, committee. .

The Rev. Mr Dalrymple was of opinion that the suggestion of Mr Finlayson was a goodl one, and proposed that Mr A. C. Begg and the ReV. R. R. M. Sutherland be added to the Union' Committee.

The' Rev. Mr Sutherland disapproved of the proposal to add Mr Begg.and himself to tho Union ' Committee at present, although,, he said, it might be wise and desirable for those on his side to be represented on the committee next year. • After further discussion, Mr Gibb's motion was put and. carried unanimously.