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CHARITABLE AID BOARD.

A special meeting of the Charitable Aid Board wits held yesterday for the purpose of considering a requisition from the trustees of tho Benevolent Institution. There were present:—Messrs J. Robin (chairman), J. R. Monson, J. F. Christian, A. Solomon, H. F. Hardy, A. C. Begg, R. Wilson H. Clark, P. Miller, J. Green, H. Gourley, and Captain Mackenzie. Apologies were made for the absence of Mr Snow and Mr Toomey.

The Chairman said: The reason for your being called together to-day is, as you are aware, a reJuisition from the trustees of the Benevolent nstitution for a sum of LISOO over their estimate for the current year. For some months back the trustees have been exceeding their estimate, and it was found that the expenditure of the institution would be from LISOO to L2OOO over the sum they had at the beginning of the year asked us to find ; and the committee of your board, having no funds in hand to meet the increased demands, only paid last month L4DO of theirrequisition, and declined to pay more. At last meeting of the Benevolent Trustees, the chairman (Mr bolomou) said your committee had exceeded their powers. I think he was quite right; they had exceeded their powers—not iu stopping payment but iu contjni in jto pay the sum they did in excess of the estimate, without any explanation from the trustees, and it was not till payment was stopped that we were favoured with a communication, which will now bo read, intimn,ting that they would require the additional sum above named. I have therefore at the earliest possible date called you together to consider the matter. The approximate state of the board's funds on the 31st December 1891, is as follows :— Liabilities: To Benevolent Institution, L42(i 9s 10a; to Caversham Industrial School, say, LllOO • to St. Mary's School, L25; to Female Refuge, L2O; surplus, L328 5s 3d j-total, L1899 15s Id! Assets:.By bank, L4l 11s 6d; by contributions outstanding, L573 los 2d; by Government subsidy on same, L573 15s 2d; by Government subsidy due LSOB 15s 6d; by Government subsidy unclaimed, L2Ol 17s 9d ;—total, L1893 15s Id. Of the above sum you will note that only the sum of L4l, then in the bank, was available. I will now call on the secretary to read you tho trustees' letter.

The following letter was read by tho secretary :— " Otago Benevolent Institution, .. , r _ „, " Dunodin, 31st December. Mr P. Black,

i( _" Secretary Charitable Aid Board. Sir,—l have the honour, by direction of the trustees, to inform you that in consequence of the increased demand for outdoor relief, mainly due to the scarcity of work and tho general depression during the current financial year, the trustees will require the sum «f LISOO beyond the LSSOO requisitioned for to meet expenses up to March 31, IS!I2, and respectfully ask that your board will make arrangements to provide that amount. The trustees have ruade every effort to keep tho cost of the institution within the limit of the requisition, but have found it quite impossible to do so. —I have, &c,

"A. Clulee, Secrctaty." Mr Bego said that he wished to propose the following resolution:—"That this board having considered the application from the Benevolent Institution for a sum of LISOO in addition to the amount of LBSOO already granted, cannot see its way to comply with the application. The sum already granted, viz., LBSOO, is the basis on which the assessment of the local bodies has been made for the current year, and even were the board willing to increase this allowance it has no funds from which it can be provided without making a second assessment on local bodies for the current year—a course which it cannot see its way to adopt. In view of the abqvemontioned application aud the recent disclosures as to the abuse of the system of out-door relief, this board is of opinion that that system has proved itself to be entirely unsuited for carrying out -the objects of the institution, and that it should be abolished and some other system established whereby all recipients of public charity shall be under continual supervision and control, and shall he compelled, as far, as possible, to contribute towards their own support by such reproductive labour as they maj be capable of performing." Speaking at length in support of the motion, the mover said he found that in ISSG-87 the amount required by the Benevolent Institution was Llo,ltS<i: in 18S7-88 it was L10.974 (of which L930 was for new buildings); in ISSB-S9 it was L10.534; in 1883-90 it wap Llo,3Sf>; and in 18H0-91 it was L10.241. The amounts required in these years sh»wed a slight divergency, but on the whole they were pretty: nearly equal. This year, however, there was an enormous jump to something like L12,000. The increase must to a large extent be in the average larger amount given to each individual case. He believed the trustees had done all they possibly could, and had devoted a lot of time, and attention, and trouble to this business ; but he thought the result showed that however much time and trouble was given to this matter it could not be satisfactorily dealt with. He believed that for the last few years the trustees had been keeping their backs to the door to stem the rush for public money; but now the door had oeen burst open, the trustees "were flooded, and they sought to transfer the burden to the ratepayers, but he hoped the ratepayers would resist. —(Hear, hear.) He thought tbe system was radically wrong. A system of public outdoor relief was one that they could not have sufficient check upon, and he thought.the result of the" short inspection that had been made showed that, however careful the trustees were, they could not protect themselves against widespread imposition. Hunan nature was the same everywhere, espe- i cially where public'money was concerned. They found members of Parliament going for a big honorarium; they found the unemployed going for. 10s or 12s a-day; and there were these applicants for charitable aid crying out for Gpverninent money. Many ratepayers were very much worse off than these people who were in receipt of charitable aid, and it was really heartrending to i think that they had to exact-rates from' poor people, many of whom had to ask for time ttf pay, in order to give money to people who were really not making any effort to support themselves as they ought. The principal reason given in the requisition by the Benevolent Institution was want of employment." That did not hold now. lhe country was crying out . for labour, and twice as many men and boys could be employed in the country now than there were to be had. There was plenty of work to be done if there were only people to do it; but the fact was that people who did not want ■work came into town. He considered the deputation that waited on the mayor on the previous day a perfect farce. Those hundred men, if they went to the country, could get plenty of work; but they did not wspt it—they wanted high wages from the Government. The system of outdoor relief bred pauperism, and he held that the system must be abolished—it could not be amended—and must be 'replaced by something in the nature of a workhouse. He believed they might have two workhouses—one in Dimedin where women might do washing, and another in the country. That was his own opinion; but the main point was that the recipients of public relief should have to submit to a certain amount of restraint in the first place, and they should have to work for the relief they received. Mr Haiidy seconded the motion, and endorsed nearly all that had been said by Mr Begg. He considered that our system of giving charitable aid was doing more harm than good. It was intended that charitable aid should lift people out of their poverty instead of steeping them in it. There was a degrading spirit—an aversion to work —growing up among our workers, and many of them would not go up-country, but preferred to lean up against the bank at the corner.

Mr Solomon hoped the meeting would understand that if they carried this resolution it simply meant that the trustees of the -Benevolent Institution would either have to immediately stop outdoor relief or resign and throw upon this board the responsibility of carrying on the work. ■Either they must discontinue this relief or create an overdraft which would be tacked on somehow to next year's liabilities. The trustees had taken. the greatest care to keep down the expense; but the past year had been a singular one in the experience not only of the Benevolent Tnistees. but of all charitable institutions in the colony, He would show this by a few figures which he had prepared in regard to the outgoing for outdoor relief. In the year ISB6 the expenditure was Lb'ls3 8s 4d • in 1887 it was L662710s 2d, an increase of L469 Is lOd ■in 18S8 the amount was L7117 18s 6d, a further increase of L490 8s 4d; in 1859, L6742 7s 4d, a fall of L375 lls 2d; in 1890, L6117 2s Bd, a further fall of L320 4s Bd, or a fall of L7OO for the two years immediately preceding this last one; and in 1891, L7595 2s ad, an increase of L1177 19s 9d on the previous year, and an increase of L477 on the heaviest previous year since the 18S6" act came into force. The trustees had had very heavy demands upon them, as the figures showed, and he might add that it would have been hardly possible for them to be at all humane and refuse relief in a large number of the cases that presented themselves. He had listened to what Mr Hardy had said about men leaning up against the street corners, and th& only conclusion he (Mr Solomon) could come to was that Mr Hardy knew nothing of the matter. He evidently spoke on the supposition that the men who lingered at the street corners and would not go up country were the persons who received relief. That was the merest supposition. The persons who received aid were persons suffering from senile decay, or chronic and incurable disease, women whose husbands were in gaol or in the asylum, and women whose husbands had deserted them, and in many cases left them with large families. He (Mr Solomon) knew every case that came to the institution, and could not call to mind one man who could be said to be an able-bodied man who was granted any relief at all, though there were two or three men capable of doing a little light work who were given work occasionally at 4s a (lay. A committee was appointed recently to inquire into every case in which outdoor relief was granted, and no pains were spared by the trustees to cut down that relief as far as possible consistent with humanity. In order to test the opinion of the meeting he would move as an amendment-" That this board, having considered the application of the Benevolent Institution for a

sum of LISOO in addition to the amount of LBSOO already granted, authorise the payment of the said L1500." This amendment was not seconded. Captain Mackenzie said he thought that Mr Solomon had made a mistake. He spoke as if the Benevolent Institution Trustees were on their trial. Nothing of the kind. The mover of the resolution was Hnost careful to say that he had no fault to find with either the trustees or their work. What was found fault with was j the act. The whole blame rested upon the act, ! and until there was some provision by which each district supported its own poor — that was, that the body which collected the money had the spending of it—they would be unable to restrain useless expenditure. He would like to know under what authority this money could be voted, it being in excess of the requisition. If anyone could suggest any means by which the board could refuse payment of this money, he should be glad to get out of . it, and bring the thing to a head. The speaker went on to remark that many men who kept about town could get work in the country. He had been trying for six weeks to get a man to do work on the roads for 6s 6d a day, and it was only a day or two ago that he was able to get a suitable man. Many applied, but most of them said that they would not take the wages offered. They wanted 10s or 12s a day, the sameas the Government were giving. He had only had one swagger at his place for the last three months, arid that was a man who did not want work. There was no doubt that there was work in the country if men would look out for it. He did not, however, say a word against the majority of workers, whom he believed to be decent, honourable men. One man the previous day asked him for a job, saying that he could do fencing or ditching, or any work of the kind. He (Captain Mackenzie) told the man he was sorry he could not give him a job, and asked him why he did not go to Dunedin, hover round there for a week or two, and then set taken on by the Government at 10s or 32s a day ; to which the man replied that he had not come to that, .and that he would sooner starve than do such a thing.

• Mr Green said, as a member of tho Benevolent Trust, he folt just as dissatisfied with tho system as Mr Begg or any other gentleman who had spoken, but he had no sympathy with those who said, "Do not vote any money, and bring things to a dead stand." That was not the way to effect an improvement. There v, as no doubt whatever that the manrer in which the public works were being carried out (whether they enabled the men to earn the large sums of money which it was alleged they earned, or not) had created a large amount of discontent and dissatisfaction among the working classes, and ordinary men who were in the habit of doing work in the country would not now take the wages that they used to take before the initiation of the system. Supposing the motion were carried, what would be the consequence ? He might say at once that it would relieve him of the mostunpleasantdutyhelindcverundertiiUcninhis life; but he asked the board, before it carried the resolution, to consider that, if they refused this requisition, they would bring the machinery to a ilead stand, and there was no other machinery that he was aware of to be put in motion except the board itself, and the board would find that, as soon as tho trustees resigned, the act would require it to carry out their functions, and how could it do that if it hail not the money ; and he would say that tho board had a great deal to learn before it could "run" the institution as economically as the trustees did. He asked those gentlemen present who came from a distance whether they were prepared to meet in to.vn weekly and distribute the funds which they were asked to contribute. Ho sincerely hoped that body would not refuse to grant relief, but if it thought the amount asked for was too much—if it thought that it could 'more judiciously do the work than the trustees did it—he .would have great pleasure in giving them the opportunity. He moved as an amendment—"That all the words after 'granted' be deleted, with the viow to insert the following: 'Grant tho additional amount under the strongest possible protest.' " Mr Solomon, in seconding the amendment, said that the board, after paying all its liabilities to the 3lst December, including LllOO to the Industrial School, and L90I) out of the LISOO asked for to the Benevolent Institution, would then have a surplus of L32S towards the LGOO asked for. It therefore amounted to this: that, assuming the meeting granted the LISOO, the board would have a debit of L272.

Mr Miller, was altogether opposed to the action of the trustees in having spent LISOO over and above their requisition, and he thought the reasons that wore given were insufficient; and he was instructed by the local bodies whom he represented to oppose this payment, but lie intonded to use his own mind on the matter. He was perfectly clear on this point: that the board had got to pay the money to the trustees which the trustees had expended. Captain Mackenzie spoke in opposition to the amendment.

Mr Gouri.ey did not see why Captain Mackenzie and other gentlemen from the country should object to the requisition being passed, seeing that it was owing to gross carelessness on the part of the county councils that the extravagance had been allowed to go on to such an extent. If these local bodies had done half their duty, the trustees would not have been anything like LISOO overdrawn.

Mr Clark defended the local bodies in the country, from the remarks of the previous speaker. He believed that if the cases in Dunedin and suburbs were as well investigated as the country cases it would be found there was ample room for retrenchment—much more room than there was in regard to the country cases. He was assured of this—that the reporto that had been relied on so thoroughly by the trustees contained many mistakes. He believed that the only sensible way of dealing with charitable aid was that each local body should support its own poor.

Mr Christian said that, admitting that there were some cases in the country in receipt of relief who ought not to receive it, there were also a good many cases in town where the relief ought to be considerably reduced, if not stopped altogether. There was one case he heard of where persons residing on the boundary of Dunedin, who were in receipt of relief for several years, had purchased a property at auction for L650 cash. _ The Chairman thought the recipients of charity m the town and suburbs required to be inspected as much as those in the country. He also blamed the county councils and local bodies, to whom the lists of those in receipt of aid in their respective districts were referred from time to time, and there were some members of these bodies who had not been ashamed to tell him that ihey paid a considerable amount for charitable aid, and they thought they had a right to receive some of it back. . ■ ■ •

Captain Mackenzie : Quite right, too. The Chairman believed that the effect of this meeting would be to make the trustees even more diligent than they were, and ho thought it was a pity that the trustees made known the result of the short inspection that had been completed before the whole of the town and country cases were inspected. Mr Begg, speaking in reply, said that the county councils were able to take care of themselves, but the Roslyn Borough Council had persistently recommended the Benevolent Trustees •to stop the payment of amounts, which had, however, been paid month after month. There could be no explanation of that, and the Roslyu Council had now resolved not to make any recommendations at all.

Mr Gourley said the trustees had inquired into the case Mr Begg had mentioned, and it would be found on investigation that it was a case requiring some relief.

The amendment was then put, the voting being :—For—Messrs Solomou, Monson.Gourley, .Green, and Wilson ; against—Messrs Begg, Clark, Christian, Miller, and Captain Mackenzie. The Chairman said lie was entirely in favour of the motion, but he thought a chairman had more to do in cases of this kind th',in»to consult his own feelings. He did not think the'chairman s casting vote should upset the existing order of things, j He therefore gave his easting vote for the amendment.

The amendment was consequently carried,

Permanent link to this item

https://paperspast.natlib.govt.nz/newspapers/ODT18920114.2.29

Bibliographic details

Otago Daily Times, Issue 9323, 14 January 1892, Page 3

Word Count
3,403

CHARITABLE AID BOARD. Otago Daily Times, Issue 9323, 14 January 1892, Page 3

CHARITABLE AID BOARD. Otago Daily Times, Issue 9323, 14 January 1892, Page 3

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