HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES.

Otago Daily Times, Issue 7287, 25 June 1885, Page 2

HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES.

Wednesday, June 24, The House mat at 2.50 p.m. BEPLIES TO QUESTIONS.

Replying to Mr Samuel, whether any steps have been taken with leferenca to the Maori lexicon on which Mr Colenso had boen employed since the year 1884, and when the work is likely to be completed, and what will be its total cost to the Colony, The Hon. J. BALLANCE said the House was aware a large sum of money had been spent on this work, extending over many years, Sinoa last session a communication had been received from Mr Oolenso to the effect that the first part of the lexicon would ba completed by January next, Replying to Mr Mess, if the Government will communicato to the House the information which has convinced them that the manufacturers of boots and ehoaa and of woollen goods require further protection to enable tbem to continue the so important industries,

Sir JULIUS VOGEL said the Government had no information on the matter. The duties imposed wera for revenue purposes. The present duty on boots was 10 per cent,, and it was proposed to increase it to 15 per cent. Replying to Mr Beetham, if the Government have taken any stops during the recess to make it known that no provision is made under tbe Supremo Court to pay the expenses of witnesses for the accused in criminal cases, also whether the Government will make any provision for payment of witnesses in such cases by an amendment of the Supreme Oourt Act, The Hon. J. A. TOLE said the Government could not make any provision for the payment of ouch witnesses, '

Replying to Mr Gore, as to what steps have bean taken in order to give effect to the reoommeudatiou of the Waste Lands Committee in the two previous sessione in the matter of the petitions of Alfred Charles Kimbell, The Hon. J. BALLANOE said the Government proposed to consider whether the justice of the case would not be met by placing a sum on the estimates for giving effect to the recommendation of the committee.

Eeplying to Mr Seddon, if it ia the intention of tho Government, whore any railway mada out of tha proceeds of tho present or any future loan shall be open for traffic, if the net returns from such railway, after deducting working expenses and all costs of repairs of permanent way, rolling stock, and plant, be not sufficient to pay the interest upon the money expended in the making such railway or portion of railway, that ths GovernorinCouncil shall raise an amount sufficient to pay suoh interest by imposing and levying a tax on the increased value of all land benefited by the formation of such line of railway, Sir JULIUS VOGBItBaid the Government did not propose to deal with the matter as indicated in tho question, They proposed that all railways should be constructed at tha re^ queat of tho local bodies under the Local Finance and Powers Bill, such bodies being responsible for half tha expense. Replying to Mr Holmes, if the Governor or tho Government had any correspondence with the Canterbury College respecting the aotion of the University Senate in prescribing certain class-books to be studied by both fomale and msle students, ~ , , , The Hon. B, STOUT said there had been do correspondence in the matter. BILLS INTBODUOED,

The following bills wero introduced: -The Friendly Societies Act Amendment Bill (Mr O'Conor), tho Tbamoe Harbour Board Empowering Bill (Colonel Fraser), the Rating Act Amendment Bill (Mr Turnbull), tho Justices of ths Peace Acts Amendment Bill (the Hoa. Mr Tole), the Divorce and Matrimonial Causes Act 1867 Amendment Bill (the Hon. Mr Tole), a bill to amend "The Impounding Act iSSI" (Mr Buckland), the Sale of Poisons. Bill (Mr Hatch), a bill to authorise the corporation of tho town of Invorcargill to consolidate certain loans (Mr Hatch), the Mines Act 1877 Amendment Bill (Mr Sflddon). MOTIONS, Mr STEWART moved—"That thore bo laid beforo this Housa all correspondence, agreeinonts, and other documents relating to tha Jervois street siding or railway in Dunadin."—Agreed to. Mr M'MILL AN moved for a return of all tho money granted and expended during the paßt three years on roads and bridgos in each county, to include grants under the Roads and Bridges Construction Act, special votes of Parliament, votos for public works, roads to open up landß before sale, and roada on goldfields.—Agreed to. ■■■■■■-~ Mr BROWN moved—"That there be laid upon the table a copy of Professor Black's re-

potts to the Otago University of his toil through the goldfields of Otago and the West Coaafc."—Agreed to.

Sir GEORGE GREY moved that an address be presented to hia Excellency tha Governor requesting him to causo to bo laid before this House copies of nil correspondence between the New Zealand Government and lha Home Government or the Government of any Colony relative to the aid of troops or money for tho general service of the Empire which has been afforded, or which it may be proposed hereafter to afford, on behalf of New Zealand ; also copies of all correspondence that may have passed between the Government of New Zealand and the Home Government, or the Government of any Colony, relative to Ihp Imperial Federation Enabling Bill J also copiefj of all correspondence that may have passed between tie Government of New Zealand and the Home Government;, or the Government oil any Colony, in relation to the annexation or federation, of. the Satnoan Islands.; also copies of all,correspondence, that may have passed between tb.e Government of New Zsaland. aiid tha Home Governmont, or the Government of any Colony, relative to the naval defence of New. Zealand ; also copies of all correspondence which may have paßsed between, the Government of New Zealand and, the Home Government,,or the Governmqnt of any CJolony, relative to federation of the Australasian Colonies."—Agreed to. ■ • • , Mr BROWN movod—"That there;be laid before this House within Id, days a return showing the number of policies m the New Zealand Government Life Assurance Association held in each Provincial District; also, the gross amount insured in each such district.— Agreed to. v ; ; •'■•■-_ Mr OADMAN moved for a return showing tha number of licensed holdings granted in the Coromandel, Thames, and Piako Counties since Ist-January 1884. "The-return to show for each county separately (1) area of ground taken up; (2) number of men required by law to man such holdings; and (3) number of men actually employed.—Agreed to, - : .-.'. Mr SEDDON moved for a return showing— (1), The number of police .in the Colony, and the cost per head of maintaining the same $ (2) the number of counties and boroughs in the Colony, and the number of police in each1 oounty and borough' separately. ■; ■'. '... BKY siTTisa; .■'■■' >■• ' ;■'■■•■ ■'■ Mr MACANDREW moved that for the remainder of the session" this House shall meet at 10.S0 o'clock in the. forenoon. ".'ld moving the motion he said he saw no good grounds for performing the business of the country at midnight instead of midday. : He quoted the case of the Legislature of the United Spates, which met at 9 a.m. and adjourned at 6 p.m. He believed his- proposal, if carried, would have the effect of shortening the Bsseion, As to the sittings of committee, they might sit on Mondays and Saturdays, or oven in the evenIngS. ' ■■ ■■ ■ -',:-y^,i ■: ....■,. ■■■■'.. ■

The Hon. R, STOUT said the objectionable part of the resolution,, as to; tha -. time for adjournment, had boon 'struck oufc ! If the Houaei decided to meet at 10.30 instead of half-past 2, the Government would endeavour to meat tho viewo of the House.

Major ATKINSON cordially agreed with the motion as amended. There was no doubt their business would be conducted better by day than' their sitting late at night.' He thought the country would benefit by thechange, and it would certainly tend to expedite tho business of the House;' .

Mr.W. D. STEWART also supported the motion. He thought, however, the better plan would be for the House to sit on Mondays and Tuesdays. Committees might sit on Wednesdays, and the House sit again on Thursdays and Fridays, ~ „. , ;.'•, Mr KERR'would support the proposal. He had lately bsen travelling ml the United States, where he attended the sittings of the Legislature at 9 a.m., and an' adjournment was always taken at 6 in the evening. ?< .;■ -;, .-:■'..• Mr O'OONOR moved as an amendment

—"That the House shall rise not later than 12 o'clock." He thought no useful work could be done at half- past 10 in the morning. Mr BEETHAM thought the proposal.would have the effect of blocking the business of the House. It would'also'be impossible'for committees to sit in the' evenings while the House was sitting. He intended to support the amendment. ~•■..■■.■■.? _-~,.■.,••.,..

Mr .BUCKLAND would .vote against both motion and amendment.' If the House wore to sit at 10.30, they' Would have faulty legislation, and could not possibly transact tho business of the House. ...

Mr STEWARD.had grave doubts aa to the possibility of carrying out the suggestion made by the member for Port Chalmers, limiting the time at which the House should rise. It would lead to tha stoppage of business in many ways. He should vote against th' amendment, but he would be inclined to give the motion a trial, Mr CONOLLY supported the motion. • He thought the appearance of members generally at the end of a oession very different from the beginning, which proved that the practice of late sittings had been a very unhealthy one. He would suggest that the motion should be brought into force on Wednesday next. They might alter the present standing order as to new business by providing that no new business he taken after 11 p m.

Mr MJ.S, M'KENZIE said tho only thing that made him favour the motion was that the leaders of both sides of tho Houso were supporting it, otherwise thero were many objec; jections to the proposal. It was well known that persons could express their'opinions better at night than at day time. He himself could certainly speak better at night. He thoußht formal work should be dono during the day, and the diecuseion of laiyo questions left to night sittings. He intended voting against both motion and amendment.

Mr J, C. BUCKLAND opposed tbo motioD,

Mr LEVESTAM would like to Bee the motion carried, but he was sorry ho could not support it, Their experience of morning sittings provod that those eittiugra were generally wasted. ■

Sir G. GREY considered it would bq impossible for Ministers to carry pn the business of the country if their whole time wore taken up in the House, Ho would find it absolutely impossible to acquaint himself with measures before the House if some portion of the day were not set apart for that purpose. The proposal was not at all suited to the. circumstances of this country, and ought to be rejected, or the question should be postponed for a fortnight, so as to ba further considered, ' The amendment was then put and lost. The Hon. Mr ROLLESTON moved—"That tbe Standing Orders Committee be instructed to amend the Standing Orders so as to give effect to the proposed resolution, \ The original motion, as amended by the Hon. Mr Rolleston, was then put, and carried by 38 against 31. The following is the division list:—

Ayes (38),—Messrs Atkinson, Ballance, Batron, Brown, Biuoa, Oadman, Gonolly, Dargaville, Dcdaon, Duncan, Fitzhnrbert, Fulton, Garrick, Hakueno, Harper, Hislop, Holmes, Hurathouse, Johnston, Kerr, Larnach, Maoandrew, J. M'Ke»z:e, Moat, Montgomery, O'Conor, Reeso, Rolleston, Ross, Smith, W. J. Steward, W. D. Stewart, Stout, Sutter, J. W. Thomson, Turnbull, Whitaker, and Walker.

Noes (31). —Moasra Allwright, Beetham, Bsvan, Bradshaw, Bryce,5 Buchanan. J. C. Buckland, W. F. Bucklnnd, Fisher, FraEer, Grey, Guinness, Hainlin, Hatch, H. Hint, H: Lake, Lance, Lsvestam, Locke, M'Arthur, M. J. S. M'Keuzie, Menteatb, NewmaD, O'Oallaghan, Ormond, Peacock, Russell, Samuel, T, Thompson, Trimble, Wilson. Pairs,—For: Messrs Cowan .and M'Millan, Against: Messrs Pyke and Fergus. Mr STEWARD moved—"That the report of Standing Orders Committee presented on tbe 29th. October 1884, together with further proposals for the amendment of tho orders now on the order paper, bo taken into consideration." ' . _.

The Hon. R. STOUT said tbo House should consider what it was doing before it passed this motion. He moved that the motion bo postponed till next day. Tho amendment was carried. • LONG SPEECHES.

Mr.FITZHERBERT moved-" That it be r»n instruction to the Standing Orders Committee to consider and report as to the desirability of Borne rule ia amendmsnt of tha standing orders in the direction that when tha House has baon counted twioa during a speeoh of any hon, member, such speech shall after tha second counting ba deemed to be conoluded." . The motion was negatived, WELLINGTON EKOXAIMED LAND. Mr FISHER moved—"That the House will on Wednesday, Ist July, resolve itself into a committee of the whole to consider an address ■to his Excolloacy, requesting him to cause to be placed upon the Estimates a sum of £2000 for tha purpose of putting tho Thorndon reclaimed land streets intosuchcondition as to render them safo for public traffic." The Hon. R. STOUT opposed the motion, which was under discussion when tbe usual adjournment took place at 5.30,

Evexinq Sittisg, The House resumed at 7.30.'

PLDBAL VOTING. Sir. GEORGE GREY moved the second reading of tho Plurality of Vote's, Bill. He said the present was a fitting time to bring forward the measure, when such a large amount of taxation was to ba imposed on every man, woman, cad child in the Colony. The subject had beau before the House bo frequently that ho would not detain the House by making any lengthened remarks on it, but would ask the House to pass the second reading. Colonel TRIMBLE said the bill would have to be ro-drafted in consequence of tha wording of the racond olause. Mr PEACOCK opposed the bill, as he considered tho proposals in it should be part of a wider and more O'mprehenoive measure. The Hon. R. STOUT said that ho had previously supported this bill, and would do to on the present occasion, as he was of opinion that one vote was sufficient for one nian. Mr HOBBS intended to support the bill, as ho believod they bad nothing to fear in passing it, and if it wero carried it would be productive of much good. . Mr DARGAVILLE supported the1 arguments used by tho previous speaker. Mr W. F. BUCKLAND did not consider tho bill wont far enough; bai if the bill were altered to tbai one wan would have only one vote anywhere, and must exercise it, ho should givo it his hearty"]support. Mr HURST opposed the bill. . Ho thought the property veto was greatly magnified by thoßa members who wero always referring to it. ; The exorcise of tho property qualification was not subject to so'much abuse as it was represented lobe. • ; Mr W, 0. SMITH supported the bill. He instanced a case in the election of 1881 where come r persons in Napier hod voted in four, different electorates. Ha considered that pro. party was well represented, aud was able at

election times to bring great influence to bear without giving it an extra vote. The motion for the second reading was agreed to on a division by 3? against 25.

LA.VT HUOTTrIOKERS DILI., Sir GEORGE GREY moved the eodoua reading of tha Law Practitioners Bill. This bill, ho explained, had nlso been, frequently bafore the House. He said the greatest boon that could bo offered to a young couutry was the opanina of overy avomie of employment, and to merit the nvenuos'to groathesa. _ He hoped tha Houae would do honour to itself by recording ifca vote in favour of tho bill. Mr HOBBS looked on tho bill as a very dangerous measure. He knew cf many casoa w^ere unfortunate peoplo had lost oasea in the oourts through, consulting tinakilled men.. He pioved that the bill bo read this day six months. i - '•. '....I. i Mr SAMUEL .thought that iußtead of the kill .contorting a benefit ,on the : commumty it ;would inflict .great evil on them. The legal profession was already too numerous in the .Colony, and it waa o great temptation for them to mako business for themselves. He believed it waa absolutely impossible for any man not apacially trained in law to do justice to nia Clients. , , -ii tt , Mr MOB 3 strongly supported the bill. Ha oontonded. that no man could pass tho examination laid down for lawyers without borne a man of-, exceptional ability. The whole qoursa of the general knowledge exannna>ion, which it was necessary to pass, v/as simply a collection of conundrums. ■ Mr GARRIOK. said the remarks made by tho membor for Auckland City East, when introducing the bill, woro directly pppoaod to tho wording of tha bill tsolf.. Ha would oppose the bill, «a it would admit a class of persona very different fromthoao which tho mover had spoken of aa beiug thoroughly skilled in law. , ; , , Mr M. J, 13, MACKENZIE contended that the bill set forth tho rights of peoplo practising law aa,the rights of : those who might ba dosirpvts of practising. He considered it was rather s> curious circumßtanca that the whola of tha legal prqfession. in the House with ono exception woro against tha. bill, As to the amount of education necessary for the law, the ablest mon in Australia had worked themselves up Crom comparatively obscure origin. Tha bill was a truly liberal measure, and would not injure law in any way. Mr JOYCE supported the bill, He could not see any cause to fear thn throwiug opan of the legal profession to the whole World. -, Oplonol FRASER said ha had frequently known amatedr lawyers to.defeat professional men. He intended to vote for the bill.

Mr TURNBULL supported the bill, and hoped, as a judge bad recently put it, the " man in the street" would bo called on to defend cases.

Mr DOWNIE STEWART intended to opposo the bill. He felt satisfied the movemsnt was in a wrong direstion, and it would load to mischievous results.

Mr EISLOP thought the question was whether it would be to the advantage of tho general public not to have tho bill passed, and if it were proved it would bring chargos down, he did not Bee why it should not pass. Ho could nevor soo why the profession of law should be a monopoly. He should bavo much pleasure in supporting the bill. Mr LEVESTAM supported the bill, as he believed it would be calculated to do a groat donlcf good. Mr MENTEATH said the bill should meet with organised opposition, as a man unskilled in law might do irrevocable harm in a very ehort time, Thoro was no demand whatever for the bill by the public. It would work great evil if carried into law. Mr SEDDON supported the bill, Mr USHER strongly supported the bill. Ho said ft large number of the legal profession were very discreditable members of it. lie thought it wrs possible to obtain among the ranks of laymen men who wore as well qualified to givo opinions as the legal profeasion, and he hoped tho bill would become law, . Tho motion for tho second reading was carried on a division by SO against 28, Tho following is the division list :— Ayes (30). — Messrs Barron, Brndsbaw, Brown, Cadmari, Cowan, Durgavillo, Duncan, Fisher, Fraser, Gore, Grey, Hatch, Hislop, Hurstbouse, Joyce, Larnacb, Levestam, M, J. S, Mackenzie, Moss, Noss, Richardson, Bussell, Seddon, Smith, W. J. Steward, Suttor,. T. Thomson, Tole, Turnbull, Wakefiold. Noes (28). — Messrs Allwripht, Beotbam, Bruce, Buchanan, Conolly, Dodson, JFitzharbort, Fulton, Ganiok, Guinness, Harper, Hobbo, Holmes, Laka, Laces, M'Arthur, M'Millan, Menteath, Montgomery, Peacock, Rolloston, Robh, Samuel, W. I). Stewart, Stout, J. W. Thomson, Trimble, 'Walker. Pairs : For—Messrn J. M'Kenzie, O'Conor, Ballance, Pearson, White. Against—Messrs H. Hirst, Bevan, Newman, Moat, AtkineoD. "othkb bills. Tho Hon. R. STOUJ.1 moved tho second readiugof the Presbyterian Church Property Bill. He said the bill amplified two formor bills on this question, It had been approved of by the General Assembly, and he thought that with that authority thero would be no objection to it by the House. I'he Lnprest Supply Bill passed through Committee, was read n third time, and passed. The Hon. R. STOUT moved the second reading of " Tho Adoption of Children Act 1881" Amendment Bill.

Agreed to. Tha House adjourned at 11,15 p.m,