THE GAMING BILL

New Zealand Times, Volume XLVI, Issue 10718, 12 October 1920, Page 6

THE GAMING BILL

MR HUNTER'S AMENDMENT BEFORE THE HOUSE

INCREASE OF " TOTE" PERMITS SOUGHT

STRENUOUS OPPOSITION IN SOME QUARTERS

The House of Representatives- sat at 7.30 last night. Mr G. Hunter (W'aipawa) moved the second reading of tho Gaming Amendment Bill (No. 2). Mr Hunter thanked tho Prime Minister for tho opportunity given of get tin jj the bill through. Early iu tue session a meeting of members decided that such a bill should bo brought forward. The original bill provided for 27 racing days, 23 trotting days and eight Ju.vs for hunts, oij in all. The present bdl reduced the number to 3S—lacing 10, trotting 20, hunting 8. This was 18 leso than tho extra permits for which application bad been made. The country racing clubs, he cir,tinued, thought there should be an increase in their permits. The populations had increased and the districts felt entitled to more consideration. The trotting people also felt that they should ha-vo more days sj-ort. An important district like Ilawke's Bay had not a single day's trotting 1 . At present there were 59 trotting permits, 38 more had been, applied for, and the bill proposed to give 20. If this bill did not pass there would have to be a redistribution of permits so that country districts would get a fair share of what was available. A member: What about hunt clubs' Mr Hunter- It is proposed to give them annual permits. Now they only race every other year. MB ISITT IN OPPOSITION. Mr L. M Isitt (Christchurch North, said he intended to oppose- the bill by every legal means. He was amazed that a man so patriotic as Mr Hunter could not see that the carrying of this bill meant the increased degradation of tht people. He did not say an end ever was xoing to be put to gambling. His first point was that gambling was an evil. He asked why, >r over 60 permits wero v anted, only 38 were asked for? Mr Hunter: Because 33 will meet tho requirements for the time Mr Isitt: If it is a good thing, one would think we could not have enough of it. Members: Oh, yes; you can have too much of a good thing! Mr Isitt said he would oppose the bill by every legal mcaDs. | A Government member: We have known that a long time. ; Mr Isitt said that excessive gambling ! was a* huge economic danger. The totali«atot'w»f icgwlised in 1889. In twenty, eight years .£58,519,232! hjtid been put through the machine. In the first twenty years the sum was ,£23,000,000, an average | of If millions a year. In the last eight years the amount was .£35,000,000, at I average of 4| millions a year. Last year nearly .£9,000,000 was registered. Then he had been told by Mr McLeod, M.P., I that the bookmakers handled 4 about .£6,000,000: there was another million in tees, and stiJil further, largo sums were said to go to Australia. He reckoned that our- population of about a million and a' quarter was annually investing 6omewhere between IS and 20 millions. MINISTER FAVOURS RED!*. ' TRIBUTION. The Hon. G. J. Anderson, as the Minis, ter in charge of racing, said that the permits at presont were:—Racing, 2H; trotting, 59; hunts, 8. There had been two .Eoyal meetings last season, which would have to bo legalised this session. Mr Anderson recited the latest totalisator figures (recently published in the "Times.") He thought there should be a redistribution of permits and quoted to show that the present total was inequitably distributed. According to these figures, which worked on tho total permits and the population basis, Haw. ke's Bay should have 11 fewei permits, VVanganui 8 fewer, Wellington 10 more, Greymouth 9i fewer, Canterbury 2 fewer, and Dunedin 11 fewer. These figures were for racing and trotting. The bill was going to place him m just about as ddhoult a position as he could be in, for while it proposed to give 38 permits, he had had applications for 67 more permits. It seemed to him that if the days of racing were increased there should be a redistribution. If there was a redistribution it would, be well to leave it to the department to give permits (after consultation with the racing authorities) where they were considered necessary throufrh the growth of a district or through increase in population. Ho thought Mr Hunter, would bo well advised when in committee to not limit the number, but leave that to the Minister and the racing authorities. At present there were eight races per racing day allowed, and if the number of races was reduced to 6even there would be with tho extra permits, less racing than at the present time. He was fond of racing and did not wish to boo the sport injured, but in view of the figures which could be quoted he thought thev should beware they did not injure racing. He was afraid they might. First of all there should be a redistribution of permits, and then any increase in permita ought ; to be left to the Minister to distribute. A PLEA FOR COUNTRY PLACES. Mr R. P. Hudson (Motueka), speaking as one who was most certainly not fascinated by horse racing—he had been to only one' meeting in Nmv Zealand—objected to special attention being given to the large centres in opposition to outlying districts. If ,the backblocks were to be peopled in accordance with their policy of cVMelopment, 'Hhen. ,w any favouritism wero ehown it should be to the outlying distriots. The large cities had no right to more days racing than the small country centres, and population would not be a fair basis of redistribution The tendency to centralise amusements in the cities was not to be encouraged. It might bo argued that racing waa an evil. Certainly gambling was am evil, and ho wished to see it put down, but why increase the facilities for gambling in the large cities, where it reached its greatest proportions? Thero was more crime and villarav associated with one day's city racing than wttb. half-a-dozen little country meetings ion his own district. He would support tha bill for the purpose of righting the w'ronjr which at present existed in the distribution of racing permits. MR MeCOMBS'S OPPOSITION. Mr J. McCombs (Lyttelton) complained that this was the only private member's bill of the session which had been honoured by tho Government setting apart one whole night for its consideration. The facilities given to it contrasted very strongly with the treatment accorded th<s large number of Labour bills that had been referred to the Labour Bills Committee. The Government must know of the very strong feeling in tho country againßt any further increase in gambling at a time when the great cry of the Prime Minister was for more production. Yet here waa tho Government offering facilities for tho creation of a greater and more useless class of han»jttf-on and spielers. He was not opposed to racing, but he was opposed to the totalisator and ho was surprised that the Government, in view of the alarming increase in totalisator gambling, was giving special facUl-

ties for the passage of this bill. Because of this increase in racing there was growing up in the Dominion a body whose power enabled it even to influence the decisions of the House. He complained that wealthy horse-owners had in the past escaped payment of their just due of income tax. If country clubs were not receiving their fair share of permits then there should be a Commission set up to report upon the allocation with a view to redistribution. "RACING NOT AN EVIL." Mr W. D. Lysnar (Gisborne) said he was not a racing man, but realised that many got pleasure out of race meetings. Because it did not amuse him, he would not say to others that they should not enjoy themselves at race meetings. Pacing was not an evil if enjoyed in moderation, just as drinking in moderation was not an evil. No one would ever eliminate gambling from a British community. The people were being invited to work harder, and produce more. Well, the harder people worked, the more pleasure and recreation they needed and were entitled to. Mr A. S. Malcolm (Clutha) 6aid he would contest the statement that racing clubs were very patriotic bodies. Certainly, some money had been given to patriotic causes. Mr J. A. Nash (Palraorston North): Not "some," but many thousands. Mr Malcolm said that there should be referenda to find out if districts wanted increased permits. AGAINST "LONG FACES." Mr M. J. Savage (Auckland Wert) supported tho bill. He did not believe in a community of long faces.. Opposition to the measure seemed to him like an attempt to sweep back with a bloom the advance of tho Pacific Ocean, and those in opposition did not object to gambling in wmmcrce. Th» desire for the amusement of racing was attributable to the life of drudgery to which tho hwm of the people were condemned. And those who opposed this measure did nothing to alleviate those conditions of drudgery. Mr McCombs: What about me? Mr Isitt: That's rather rough on the hon. member for Lyttelton. Mr Savage: Well, perhaps I'll exempt the hon. member for Lyttelton. (Laughter.) Mr Savage contended that racing should be administered by an independent outside bodv and not by the big owners as- at present. LET MAJORITY RULE. Mr R. W. Smith (Waimarino) hoped that members would be sufficiently sporting to allow the bill to go to a vote and the majority to rula Mr J. R. Hamilton (Awarua) claimed that there was no evidence that tho country as a .whole desired this measure. He was not against racing, but thero must be a limit to gom'bling in the Dominion. This country had now reached a stage where every .available man must be engaged in -production". Every day's racing meant teams standing idle in tho country and the whole cry of to-day was for increased production to meet tho post-war crisis. Mr J. Edie (Bruce) opposed the bill. It was a sad mistake to bring tho bill forward at present. Mr S. G. Smith (Taranaki) said he was not a betting man, but he realised that there was a big demand for increased permits. Taranaki had eleven permits, which number only equalled the number of permits held by the Auckland Club. His reason for supporting the bill was that it provided the only means he could Bee of Taranaki getting justice in the matter of permits. Tho cry of increased production had been raised; no place produced more than Taranaki did. Moat of the opponents of the bill were not racing men (they said), But yet they could tell the Houee of the dangers of going to races. Mr F. N. Bnrtram (Grey Lynn) supported the bill. Ho believed in the workers getting as much fun as they needed. The bill would not unduly increase gambling. AGAINST INCREASES. Mr D. Jones (Kaiapoi) «aid that bofoio his election ho had been prepared to loave the (present permits untouched, but not to increase tie number, and that was his position still. He contended that tho .Sports Protection League, which waa largely behind this movement, was taking a very unfair advantage of the House and the country. Tho publio had had no opportunity of discussing this bill before it was brought down. Ther<» was no objection to more racing, but there was objection to increasing th» numbor of totalisator permits. Of lata years racing had become one great business, largely because of its centralisation in cities. Present permits were not fairly distributed. It was, very questionable if the Dominion could afford to increase tho numbers of days' racing at the present time. He did not consider that the bookmaker had been aboliahed and every extra day's racing increased bookmakers' totals all over the Dominion. It was the trotting breed that I spoiled all tho l>est hacks in the Dominion. The totalisator was now the biggest taxing machine in New Zealand, next to the Government, and it was exercising an evil influence on the political life of tho Dominion, and wag a very definite power at election time. Mr W. D.. Powdroll (Patea) supported the bill. He spoke of the needs of countrv clubs. Mr R. Masters (Stratford) opposed the bill,! not becauso he was against , the permits, but because 'he believed the first move should' be a redistribution /of tho existing permits. Mr J. A. Nash (Palmerston North) supported the bill. He wag particularly concerned to see more permits given to trotting clubs and h'unt clubs." H« did not favour the increase of flat racing permits. The racing clubs had done magnificent work during the war, and Mr Malcolm could not make light of it. The Manawavtu Club had given about .£25,0C0 and placed its oourse and appointments at fche disposal of tho military. AN AMENDMENT. The discussion was continued until 2.15 a.m.. when the Hon. A. T.. Ngata moved an amendment to the effect that the bill should bo read 6ix months hence. This gave opportunity for tho opponents of tho bill to deliver another round of speeches uiid when the "Times" went to prose the debato was still proceeding.