THE INTERVIEWER.

New Zealand Mail, Issue 1249, 6 February 1896, Page 13

THE INTERVIEWER.

THE- COMMISSIONERS FROM CAPE COLONY. [rTZl.] They arrived by sea on January 29 from Australia, and by direction of the editor I waited on them. Messrs Hales and Visser impressed me at once. The latter is an intelligent farmer of Cape Colony, of the sturdy old Dutch type, but not one to be at once put down as an Afrikander by the casual observer. He strikes one at first sight as a cosmopolitan. Mr Halse's appearance accentuates this idea even more sharply. On meeting him for the first time and talking with him, no one would dream of guessing where he hails from. A fine, 1 sunburnt man, with good manners, well set up, without a sign of any provincial accent, speaking the Queen's English like any other Queen's subject. He is just like thousands of Englishmen to be met with anywhere. After a minute with him I come to the conclusion that the Empire .is homogeneous ; that blood is thicker than differences of climate and soil; that the race is the strong bond which keeps the Empire together in the loyalty of a common tradition, common aims, and a rule acknowledged everywhere to be as well loved as it is tactful and strong. Naturally the first question was as to their business. Mr Halse, being the spokesman, answered that it was to study the productions of the Colony, and the methods of production . and the land laws. As they had just arrived, and had only seen as much of New Zealand as comes into view from the highest point in the Botanical Garden-*, it would not have been right to ask their opinions about our glorious country. I refrained therefore, mentioning my idea to Mr Halse, who promptly declared that on the subject of New Zealand he must decline to be drawn. About Australia he was more communicative. He had felt the heat, not at Bourke, which he avoided, but at other places, Wagga, Narrabri, and the Moree Plains, and he did not want any more of that sort of thing. He had seeu the thermometer uj> to llldeg. in the shade at the first-named place. What sort of shade was it ?

Oh -, just a verandah. It had an iron roof, but the roof was lined with timber, and the floor was timber; a fair enough test he thought. "We talked a little about the Australian conditions, agricultural, farming and political, bui hot for publication. We preferred to talk about South Africa, and we did. Of course the first subject was Johannesberg and the recent filibustering expedition. Mr Halse explains that he and his friend had left the colony in September, and that the whole .affair had come to them with the completeness o! a genuine surprise. Jameson's conduct ho cannot attempt to explain. Ihe attitude of the Uiblanders and the Boers he has no information about. He can only surmise. There was, he thinks, no conspiracy on the part of either. It is possible that a despairing cry for relief had penetrated from Johannesberg, and got Jameson out on his expedition. Does he think Mr Rhodes responsible ?

Well ! Rhodes has resigned, and he is not the man to do such a thing without cause.

About the German sympathy. I cannot understand it, I tell Mr Halse, as there is not a German sphere of influence within a thousand miles of the Transvaal.

Everybody sympathises, he says sharply, with a rich and growing country. The mineral wealth of the Transvaal is enormous, and every day adds something to its discovery. As a matter of fact the patronising air of the Germans has been notorious all over South Africa for many years. Last year the Kaiser sent "'Oom Paul" one of the highest orders of the Empire, and the old man was very proud of it. What—ia--tho feeling in the colony on the subject? Well! there are a great many people of the same blood as the Boers ; relatives, friends, and descendants of the men who left the bosom of their families and " trekked " off to the new countries. These are mostly in the country districts, where there is in consequence considerable sympathy with the Boers.

I mention the Afrikander Bund and its leading spirit Hoffineyer. Hoffmeyer is the Parnell of South Africa, I learn. It was he who got the Afrikanders to join in the bond with the distinct object of keeping Africa for the Africans. A great political power it was once ; but that power has waned considerably of late. The Bund is now more of a farmers' association than anything else, and Hoffmeyer has retired from politics. As to the possibilities of its political power? Undoubtedly they are considerable. When the members are united they make their power felt in the political field of course. Rhodes was the other day irresistible, because the people of all shades we>*e unanimous in his favour. But recent events in the Transvaal have certainly united the Bund, and to that extent the influence of Rhodes is diminished.

We have a good deal to say about this Rhodes. In his boyhood he conceived the idea of extending the British Power over vast Bpacea in the African continent. He and Sheppard—now Sir James, and well known as the Administrator of Bechuanaland —were friends in youth, foregathered at the University, and were in sympathy in their early colonial career.

" Sheppard, what do you say if we devobe the rest of our lives to colouring these great countries red?"

Thus addressed by the persistent Rhodes, who had a scheme in his head for the purpose before he came to man's estate, Sheppard, after some demur, consented. To gain the means for prosecuting that scheme Rhodes amalgamated the great De Beer's Extended, acquiring tho title o£ " The Great African Amalgamator." To add to his strength he entered political life, and very soon camo to the Premiership. A man of Imperial ideas, gifted with vast mental power, a calculator of extraordinary success—with a hundred irons always in his firo, and none of them ever known to go wrong —the owner of a magnificent physique, gifted with great powers of persuasion, the colossal figure of Africa, and only 41 years of age—such is Rhodes.

I get an instanco of his thoroughness. He has projected the great telegraph line, which, starting from Fort Salisbury, is one day to reach Cairo. That we all know. We know too that the line has got amongst the highlands of the shire beyond the Zambesi, over towards Lake Nyassa. What w 9 do not know in this country is that Rhodes has promised to everyone who comes out with the line'at Cairo a grant out of his own pocket of «£SOOO. There are many men on the work with that w 65000 in view at tho present

moment. All the other instances we talk of, the establishment of Rhodesea, the railway projects, the remonstrance with President Cleveland about Venezuela, all these are matters of recent history. That Rhodes will stick to the great work of his life, the work of colouring more country " red," and of making that country prosperous, goes without saying. There is, according to the belief of every South African, much force in and a great future before the " taciturn Cecil." By the way, of his salary as Premier (=22000 a year). he never drew a farthing during his whole term of office.

It is a rich country ? The richest. The gold—ten millions a year for 30 years, I have heard the Johannesberg fields estimated at—is a great attraction, of course. Mr Halse assents to my report of the estimate, thinks there is far more, declares there is nothing phenomenal anywhere. The whole yield is rather low-grade, but it is the oven monotony of it which is giving the big results. The Uitlanders—who are they ? Eighty per cent, are Englishmen, and of the remaining CO per cent, the majority are Americans and Australians.

But gold is not the only factor in the prosperity of South Africa. The new territories are wonderfully productive and rich. Rhodesea, the Matabele country, Bechuamlaud, and all the places which make up that vast new territory, are fertile, high-lying regions, eminently adapted for every sub-tropical production, a grand cattle country, a fine dairy country, a country fit for European settlement. "We look upon it," said Mr Halse, "as the sponge which must eventually absorb the whole surplus population of the world."

Railways have arisen everywhere. There is the lino from Capetown to Mafeking and beyond ; the line from Port Elizabeth to the Orange Free State, and beyond ; the lino from East London converging with it; the Durban line, now open to Heidelberg, within thirty miles of Johannesberg; and the Delagoa Bay line to Pretoria. Five railways to open up the country, and all more or less converging on the neighbourhood of Johannesberg. Before they were made vast quantities of heavy machinery, and all the supplies, were carted by ox waggon to the place. It is one of the most marvellous things on record. As to the geopraphy of the late campaign, it is no wonder we could not follow the thing here on the maps. Eland is a common name for African streams, and there are several Eoodeports and Krugersdorps. The Transvaal is not rich in nomenclature. As for the native names, they are numerous enough, and very pretty. Not more so, Mr Halse assures me, than the Maori names he has heard here, but more pronounceable. I get him to give me a specimen, whereupon he pronounces sundry names of Africa with the Kaffir " X " in their midst It is a curious and rather musical clicking sound, but absolutely beyond my power to reproduce, and I try very hard. And your agriculture? The Cape Colony is very fertile ; it grows cereals freely ; it is far better watered with rivers, creeks and springs than Australia ; it is a grand dairy country—they are in the lecturing stage at present, but the stage of creameries and factories is not far off; it is a good wine country, and a grand fruit country. There is a fine future before it with all these productions.

Climate ? For seven months in the year the grass is most abundant. For the other five the stock require artificial food, ensilage and so forth. That is due to the cold winter of the high plateaux, of which the Capo Colony chiefly consists, during which there are very often 20 degrees of frost. It ought to produce a fine race? So it does. "Just you see the height and weight of our young people." They will, Mr Halse thinks, be one of the races of the world. Their political future he is sure is Federation. "Under the flag-'" "Most undoubtedly ; we arc just as loyal as you are to the Empire." The labour problem ? They have very line workers in the native races : races which, far from dying out, are increasing fast and multiplying. " I pay my men on my farm fifteen shillings a month, and am well served. On the mine fields they give them 2s (id a day, and liko them well, as they take to the work very quickly, arc strong, powerful and industrious, and have few wants. It is one difficulty, of course, for politically the whites must have the ascendancy. That complicates the politics of the continent." We talk of many things : of the future of this Africa, of the certain greatness of the country marked " reel " by Rhodes, of what the telegraph project Salisbury to Cairo means, of Sir George Grey and his services in South Africa which the colonists still remember gratefully, of the stupidity which snubbed him for his Federation projects, and tried to follow his advice when too late, of the enormous rate at which the Uitlanders are increasing in Johannesberg, and the certainty that by sheer lorce of numbers they must be masters in the Transvaal one day. " One reason for the clemency extended to the filibusters," I suggest. " Yes, probably. Another is the fact that the vast revenues come from the Uitlanders. Why, the Boers have a million in their coffers now uninvested."

Political power ? None. Only two Uitlander.s are in the Boer Assembly. How they managed to get sleeted nobody knows. But they have a bad time of it there, what with interruptions, abuse and actual fisticuffs. Presently time is up, and so, wishing my friends every success in their quest of knowledge, I take my leave with many thanks for their courtesy. MR L. NEWMAN. JUST ARRIVED FROM JOHANNESBURG. [R A.L.] I met Mr Newman on Jan. 30, just arrived by the Tongariro from Capetown. He explained that he had left Johannesburg a few days before the Jameson surrender, and had read all about it in the Cape newspapers on his arrival at Capetown. These papers he showed me, as also a collection of photographs of various South African localities. Johannesburg, a great place of 00,000 inhabitants, well built, furnished with every modern appliance, fine buildings, broad streets, telephones, tramways, clubs, churches, hotels, theatres, a vast mai-ket place, a grand cab service, everything required by civilised life ; Kimberley, Durban, Cape Colony, Bloomfounteiu and many others. I am struck, as I glance over the pictures, with tho fact that there is a great similarity among all civilised places all the world over. At Johannesburg things are lively and prosperous. In one picture I notice a list of names at the back. They are the names of mining claims all getting gold ; they are on the line of a big reef 50 miles lose., stretching

away towards Pretoria. Something like a reef that ! What grand conditions for prosperous mining ! A country without geo.logical faults, and much to be depended upon. The population comes streaming in from all parts at the-rate of a couple of hundred a week. When you were there what were they doing ? " They were drilling—here in the market place," a picture cf which he shows me. Drilling openly they were, and armed to the teeth, and organised well. There were various _ corps, English, Scottish, Irish, Australian, American and others. The names of their officers were published in the local papers, the fixtures were advertised, everything was done openly. Fine men they were, too, many of the corps composed of troops who had evidently seen service, and appeared to be ready for everything. There could not have been less than 10,000 men in arms.

Arms? Maxim guns, field-pieces, LeeMitford rifles, and ammunition galore. The ,guns were smuggled up in mining boilers, the] rifles in soap cases, and ammunition in every conceivable kind of package. Is life pleasant there ? On the whole very pleasant, and somewhat expensive. There is a grand club ; he shows mo the club house, a very imposing and most comfortable structure. Entrance, a hundred guineas, he says, and the fee for honorary members a guinea a week. How about water ?

There's the drawback at times. Sometimes water is very dear, and sometimes it is almost unattainable. He shows mo a newspaper clipping, in which I read that the hotels supply soda water —at a price—for washing and bathing purposes. " Curious, unique, and rather lively," I remark, "not to say expensive." Ho laughs. Did you know what was going on before you left ? He did. Just before getting away ho was sworn to secrecy, and told that something was about to happen which would stagger the world. Therefore, on arrival at Capetown two days and a half later he was not surprised to hear that there had been fighting. But he was astounded at the defeat and surrender of Jameson, and of the abandonment of that officer. The news plunged Capetown into the most terrible grief. Citizens in groups discussed the news, and the city wore the gloomy aspect of a people in mourning. The general sentiment was not only of sorrow, but of astonishment that such a well armed, well equipped, well drilled, and apparently determined body of men had failed to make any effort for their friends whom they had called in. All were proud of the heroism displayed by Jameson and his men, and at the same time all regarded the collapse of the Uitlanders as complete, and the under-current of feeling was that it was far from creditable. The opinion was that they had "funked the Boers."

I ask him if ho had hoard that they had submitted to be disarmed, and that the Boers were aggressively exultant. Ho was not well informed, he said, not having seen many papers ; he was surprised at the collapse-, but ho was not astonished at the Boer attitude. Just what happened after Majuba, ho says, with an air of dejected conviction. About the fight? He gives me a pile of newspapers, with an extra or two from the Cape Times ; which will give me full information. I thank him, and so will the readers of the N'kw Zealand Mail, who will find a compilation elsewhere in the present issue. Reverting to the collapse, he said, " it is complete ; the Boers are masters now, and will remain so. The capitalists pulled the wires, and before the time came for action bolted out of the place as hard as they could. Everyone expected to hear of a successful revolution, and in Capetown the disappointment was as if a great public calamity had happened." He proceeds to tell mo how matters were managed before the march of Jameson ; clearly in anticipation. For instance, the Boers had got oat some Maxims to be ready for emergencies. These were setup on a hill in the Botanical Gardens, a commanding position, but the important screws necessary for each had somehow got lefc behind. Then there was the liner Scott, loaded with rifles and ammunition for the Boors, which in some mysterious way came to grief and was delayed, so that no part of her cargo came to hand. The whole country believed these to b>? part of a scheme on the part of the capitalists. The general astonishment was therefore all the greater when the Uitlanders. after all these preparations and their drilling, collapsed. Railways ? Yes, they come right up to Johannesburg now. The trains are slow, not making more than ten or twelve miles an hour as a iixle : but they are comfortable, with saloon carriages and the electric light.

The L> >ers next engaged our attention. A fine race they are, he tell-; mo ; nearly exnry man six feet high. Grand marksmen, with a sort of military di-cipliue of their own ; firstrate judges of distance ; and with a marvellous capacity for taking advantage of cover. Ho does not love them, but admits that they are very tough customers. We talked about many details too numerous to mention, for which tho time is all too short, at the end of which I thank Mr Newman for Ids courtesy and information, wish him a pleasant time on the voyages before him —ho is doing New Zealand on business and pleasure, and purports treating Japan in the same way—and take my leave with a bundle of newspapers.