LICENSING REFORM.

New Zealand Herald, Volume LXIV, Issue 19797, 18 November 1927, Page 13

LICENSING REFORM.

THE BILL POSTPONED. VITAL CHANGES MADE. BARE MAJORITY VOTE. TWO ISSUES SUPPORTED. SIX-YEAR TOLL REJECTED. [by telegraph.—special reporter.] WELLINGTON. Thursday. Prohibitionists achieved partial success in the House of Representatives this morning when they used a substantial majority to amend the Licensing Amendment Bill so that it conformed' to the three main planks of their platform—no extension of the period between polls, a two-issue ballot paper, and a bare majority decision. The |>rime Minister, Mr. Coates, intimated that he could not accept tho bare majority amendment, and when it was forced on him in a division he had progress reported on the bill to enable him to consider tho position. Mr. Coates emphasised that some percentage was essential, and he intimated that he would confer? with tho leaders of the contending parties in tho House to see if some compromise could be arranged. It was 4.30 a.m. when the House rose. The short title to the bill was passed at 1.20 a.m. and issue was then joined on the first of the contentious clauses, that providing for the licensing polls being taken at every alternate general election. An amendment moved by the Leader of the Opposition, Mr. H. E. Holland, that the clause be referred back to the Government and that the question as to the period between polls be submitted for the determination of the electors at the next election, was ruled out of order by the chairman of the Committee, Mr. F. F. Hockley, on tho ground that it was a direct negative. Six-Yearly Polls Defeated. After very little debate a division was taken on the clause, which was defeated by 51 votes to 23, the effect of tho decision being that polls will continue, to be held at every general election as heretofore. The division was as follows: — For Six-yearly Polls—23. Coates Mason, J. Elliott. Ngata Field Pomare Glenn Rolleston, J. C. Henare • Seddon Horn Smith Hudson Uru Hunter Veiteh Luke Ward Lvsnar Wilford McLeod Williams. McMillan Against—sl. Anderson Lee, J. A. Armstrong , Linklater Atmore McCombs Bartram McKeen Bellringer McLennan Bitchener Martin Buddo Mason, H. G. R. Burnett Nash Campbell Nosworthy Dickie Parry Dickson, J. McC. Potter Dickson, J. S. Ransom Forbes Reid Fraser Rhodes Girling Rollestoi'i, F. J. Hamilton, A. Savage Hamilton, J. R. Sidey Harris Stewart Hawken Sullivan Holland, H. Sykes Holland, H. E. Tapley Howard Waite Jones, D. Walter Jones, W. Wright Kvle Young. Lee, E. P. "The result of tho division is very unpleasant to me, said the Prime Minister, "but I have to put up with it in deference to ono or two other points in the bill." Next to be debated was the clause which provided that only two issues, continuance and prohibition, should be submitted to the electors. The House was some time in coming to the vital division. An amendment moved by Mr. J. G. Eliott (Oroua) that the question of corporate control should be added to the ballot papers was defeated on the voices without discussion. Preferential Voting Rejected. Tho Leader of the Opposition had another amendment providing for the submission of the three issues, the electors to indicate preferences for the various proposals. He made it clear that tho a'mendment was designed solely with tho object of obtaining a vote on the question of preferential voting, and he

forced the issue to a division, the amendment ■ being defeated by 55 votes to 20. The division was: — For the Amendment—2o. Atmore. Lee, J. A. Bartram. Luke Buddo. Parry Dickson, J. S. Rolleston, J, C. Elliott. Savage Field Seddon Forbes Smith Glenn Veiteh Holland, H. E, Ward Horn. Wilford Against the Amendment—ss. Anderson Macmillan Armstrong. Martin Bell. Mason, H. G. R. Bellringer Mason, J. Bitchener Nash Burnett Ngata Campbell Mosworthy L'oates. Pomare IJickio Potter Dickson, J. McC. Ransom Fraser. Reid Gix-ling Rhodes Hamilton, A. Rolleston, F. J. Hamilton, J. R. Sidey Harris Stewart I-lawken Sullivan Henare. Sykes Holland, H. Tapley Howard Uru Hudson. Waite Hunter Walter Jones, D. Williams Jones, W. Wright Kyle Young Leb, E. P. Lysnar Ijinklater ' McCombs McLennan McKeen McLeod "This is like a Maori race meeting," said Mr. W. E. Parry (Auckland Central), in commenting on an amendment moved by Mr. H. L. Tapley (Dunedin North), to the effect that the present three issues should be submitted to the electors and that at the next election there should also bo taken a poll on the question whether after that the ballot paper should bo limited to continuance and prohibition. Ballot oi Two Issues. The Prime Minister said he could not accept tho amendment, but in spite of this tho member for Dunedin North pressed for a division. While the bells were ringing ho changed his mind and tho amendment was rejected on the voices. The ballot paper issue was then put, and the clause in the bill providing for only the two issues was carried by 53 votes to 21. Thi division was:— For Two Issues—s3. Anderson McKeen Armstrong McLennan Bellringer ' McLeod ~- Bitchener Macmillan » Burnett Martin Coates . Mason, J. Dickie Mason, H. G. R. Dickson, J. McC. Ngata Fraser Nosworthy Girling Pomare Hamilton, A. Potter Hamilton, J. R. Ransom Harris Reid Hawken- Rhodes Henare Rolleston, F. J. Holland, 11. Sidey Howard Stewart Hudson Sullivan Hunter Sykes Jones, D. Tapley Jones, W. Uru Kyle Waite Lee, E. P. Walter Linklater Williams Luke Wright Lysnar Young McC'ornbs Against—2l. Atmore Horn Bartram Lee, J. A. Bell Parry Buddo Rolleston, J. C Campbell Savage Dickson, J. S. Seddon Elliott Smith Field Veiteh Forbes Ward Glenn Wilford Holland, 11. E. Bare Majority Amendment. The end of the bill so far as that sitting was concerned camo when Mr. J. McCombs l(Lyttelton) was successful in carrying a bare majority amendment against the proposal in the bill that prohibition to be carried must be endorsed by 55 per cent, of the electors. There was little discussion on the amendment, which the Prime Minister said he could not accept. "Tho bill was drafted with a definite policy," said Mr. Coates. "I have already lost one clause, an important one. This amendment, if it is carried, will leave me with a bare majority without a safeguard, and a safeguard is essential and vital to the bill." The amendment was carried by 43 votes to 32, the voting being:— For Bare Majority—43. Anderson McCombs Armstrong McKeen Bartram Martin Bellringer Mason, H. G. R Bitchener Ngata Buddo Nosworthy Burnett Parry Dickie Potter Dickson, J. McC. Ransom Fraser Reid Girling Roulston, F. J. Hamilton, A. Savage Hamilton, J. R. Sidey Harris Stewart Holland, H. Sullivan Holland, H. E. Sykes Howard Tapley Jones, D. Waite Jones, W. Walter Kyle Wright Lee, E, P. Young . Lee, J. A.

I , Against—32. Atmore Lysnar i Bell McClennan Campbell McLeod Coates MacMillan Dickson, J. S. Mason, J. Eliott N ash Field Pomare Forbes Rhodes Glenn Rolleston, J. C. Hawken Seddon Henare Smith o Horn Uru Hudson Veitch Hunter Ward Linklater Wilford Luke Williams Amendments Not Accepted. Immediately the result of the division was announced the Prime Minister moved that progress on the bill lie reported. "My reason for doing this is that I desire to take time to consider the position," he said. "I am not prepared to take the responsibility of the amendments that have been carried to the bill as brought down by myself. The bill was introduced to Parliament, and I arliament was asked to consider it. Ihe amendments carried and the alterations that have taken place have vitally changed the whole character of the proposals introduced. 1 think I was entitled to more consideration in that respect. If the committee decides not to give me progress, I take it I will be relieved in regard to any responsibility as to the amendments." (Hear, bear.) "If progress is reported, I am prepared to consider the question of the main point at issue—the question of the majority. At the moment I am unable to say what majority or percentage of majority would be a fair thing. I take it members understand my position quite well. The result- is a disappointment to me, naturally. My responsibility must cease when the committee take the bill out of my hands. (Hear, hear.) I move that progress be reported." Time lor Consideration. The division was about to be taken, when the (Minister of Health, Hon. J. A. Young, raised a point of order Ihe Minister asked whether the bill would not disappear from the order paper altogether unless the Prime Ministers motion contained the words, "and ask leave to sit again." If these words were added the bill would come back to the House in due course "I have asked to report progress, and as leader of the House I can restore the measure to the order paper, said Mr. Coates. "It is possible negotiation may take place and that I can get the leaders of the contending parties in the House to arrive at some satisfactory conclusion. I take it that I can place the bill on the order paper in the same position as it is now at some time convenient to Mr. yS McCombs: Does it mean that if progress- is agreed to, the House will have an opportunity of gelding the matter by a big majority ? Ihe House has decided what it lias decided. Is the Prime Minister asking the House.to surrender its decision to will in the matter, and is he asiang the House to place itself in the position that if does not want to go on with the bill J hit will be the end of it: . Mr. T. M. Wilford (Hutt) : It is his bl The Prime "Minister: The position, I take it, is that I have introduced a bill into Parliament, and several radica. changes have been made. I cannot accept the responsibility for the amendments and I am asking the committee to take that responsibility. (Hear, hear.) If the motion to report progress goes against ma Parliament accepts the responsibility. If the House grants progress, then it is in mv hands. .. Mr. Wilford repeated that it was the Prime Minister's bill. Mr. McCombs: It is the House s bill. Mr. Wilford : Nothing of the kind ; it is The Prime Minister: What I cannot accept the responsibility for is the major- j itv question, and I want the leaders of the two sides to meet me. Ido not want to be left in the position of not being able to put the bill on the Order Paper again and of bringing it .before the committee again. Leave to Sit Again. The chairman ruled that if progress was reoorted without a request forleave to sit again the bill would go off the Order Paper. There was nothing to prevent the Prime Minister from reintroducing the bill. ~ ~ . , The Prime, Minister said that to prevent any misconception, lie would agree to seeking leave to sit again. In this form thfe motion was put, ana carried by 41 votes to 34, the division list being as follows : For The Motion—4l. Anderson Linklater Armstrong Luke Atmore Lysnar Bartram McLennan g e ]l Macmillan Buddo Mason, J. Campbell S a Coates a gat a Dickson, J. S. Tarry Elliott Pomare Field Rhodes Forbes Rolleston, J. C. Glenn Savage Hawken Seddon Henare Smith Holland, H. E. Uru • Horn Veitch Hudson Ward Hunter Williams Lee, J. A. Wilford. Against The Motion —-34. Bellringer Mclveen Bitchener Martin Burnett Mason, H. G. Iv. Dickie Nosworthy . Dickson, J. McC. Potter Fraser Ransom Girling Reid Hamilton, A. Rolleston, F. J. Hamilton, J. R. Sidey Harris Stewart Holland, H. Sullivan Howard syk ps Jones, D. lapley Jones, W. Waite Kyle Walter Lee. E. P. Wright McCombs Young.

DEMAND BY METHODISTS.

FURTHER CONSIDERATION. An appeal tliat strong representations be mado to the Prime Minister and individual members of Parliament to provide a further opportunity for the Licensing Amendment Bill to be placed before Parliament during the present session was made by a deputation from the Auckland branch of the New Zealand Alliance, which waited on the, Methodist Synod of the Auckland district at its session yesterday. The synod unanimously carried the following. resolution: —" That this synod, having learned that the Prime Minister's action in moving to report progress on tho Licensing Amendment Bill when in committee may jeopardise the bill, respectfully but emphatically calls upon him, to make good his promise to give the measure full and fair opportunity of being placed on the Statute Book this session." The text of the resolution was sent, by telegram to the Prime Minister and each member of the synod sent telegrams couched in similar terms to Mr. Coates and members of 'Parliament.