AUCKLAND CITY DRAINAGE.

New Zealand Herald, Volume XLI, Issue 12602, 17 June 1904, Page 6

AUCKLAND CITY DRAINAGE.

DISCUSSION ON MR. MESTAYER'S SCHEME. MORE INFORMATION WANTED. . MR. MESTAYBR TO COME TO AUCKLAND. . ' A special meeting .of the Auckland City Council was held last night to discuss Mr. R. L. Mestayer'3 scheme for tho drainage of the city.: The Mayor (the Hon. E. Mitoholson) presided, and there were, also present: Messrs. J. Court, O. J. Parr, A. J. Eritrican, L. J. Bagnall, J. McLeod, G. Knight, M. • Casey, W.E. Hutchison, and Dr. Sharman. . '„

The scheme, which was fully summarised in : our columns on May 27, involves an expenditure of £144,000, exclusive of £76,000, which would be entailed in making new connections. ' ■■'. L '•' '';.;{. / ; On the Mayor intimating the business, there was a long pause, and Mr. J. McLeod, with the object of provoking discussion, moved, " That Mr. Mestayer's "scheme be adopted and recommended to the ratepayers." Ho said it was well known that Mr. Mestaycr occupied a very high position as a drainage engineer. The success of the Wellington scheme should-be a sufficient guarantee ,to Auckland of his ability. A good many years ago Mr. Clarke, , another eminent engineer, reported in favour of discharging the sewage into Hobson Bay, but since then the septic tank treatment of sewage had come into prominence, and Mr. Mestayer had _ recommended that system. The main opposition to the scheme- was mostly from people living on the western side.of the pity; who objected to the discharge into Cox's.Creek. lii reply to that objection he might quote from Mr.. Mestayer's report the phrase: "There can bo no possible unpleasantness, either visible or odorous.", Mr. Mestayer's scheme for Wellington-had done a great deal in reducing the death rate in that city, and he believed the same result would follow the adoption of this scheme by Auckland. Mr. Court seconded pro forma. He regretted the necessity for Mr. Mestayer having to bo called in, and quoted from Mr. Alestayers report that had the sewer outlets been carried to a point well below lowwater mark the pollution of the foreshores would have, been averted, or, at least, postponed for many years. He blamed the Harbour Board for causing this immense outlay by the city at. the present time. . Sometime ago the Council appointed delegates to discuss with the Harbour Board the matter of emptying sewage into the harbour. The Harbour Board absolutely refused to discuss the question, and ho was sorrv and surprised that the chairman of .'the Harbour Board, who was also a member of the Oily Council, gave the Council no help in the matter. He thought Mi. Mestayer had gone thoroughly inro the question. The. only matter he was not quite satisfied about was the position of the septic tank. He thought they ought to have two septic tanks, one in Mechanics' Bay and one at Cox ' B Creek. They ought to ask Mr. Mestayer's opinion on that " point before going further. ■ Mr. W. E. Hutchison said he believed the present, system would have done for a considerable time had the sewers in the early days been run,out to low-water mark, but 111 the present circumstances he did not think the city could do better than adopt Mr. .M#.stayer> report. " He, however, favoured the- idea of inquiry into the feasibility of having two septic tanks. Mr. M. Casey said some years ago, when Mr. Gbldie came in as Mayor, the city borrowed a sum of money which was supposed to complete the drainage of the city. He thought it was a big stretch of imagination to say that the sewage was polluting the harbour. The foreshores were purer to-day than they were 20 yoars ago. He thought before they decided to carry out Mr. Mestayer's report they should have a- report on the matter.from the city engineer, who would bo responsible for tho carrying out of the scheme:';' They ought also to consult- the Harbour Board before going on. It might also, he thought, bo advisable to appoint a drainage board to deal with the sewage of, Auckland and the local bodies surrounding, whose sewage followed the same natural outlet. ■ He was satisfied that if. the sewers had been carried beyond low-water mark, and were properly ventilated, there would be nothing to complain of in tho present; sewers for at least 20 years. Then the Council must consider that they would not be in office long enough to carry out the scheme. -First of all,. they ought to consult the ratepayers. . ' ■ ' ,

The Mayor: We have to decide first and than" ask the ratepayers. Mr. A. J, Entrican said it 1 was agreed a' year ago that j tip-to-date system of sewago was necessary, and now that a report had been got members of the Council seemed to bo changing their view. Even if they ( oould get along for 20 years with the present system at the. rate the City Council went on with these things it was time they were making a start. Even if they adopted Mr. Mestayer' scheme now, he believed nearly half of the 20 years would be gone before it was completed. > The Mayor: Five or six of them would be. : ■■-: ; ': , " ; ■'. : ':-."'- ; ";'-, ■-■.-':■:: . ''■;,„ '„*'... : '■ Mr? Entrican said he was perfectly satisfied that the city should go in for a complete system of drainage, and that the septic tank system should bo adopted. Tho question arose whether Cox's Creek was the proper place. Of 'course, if other districts joined with the city, it' might be possible to got the discharge into Hobson's Bay, but that was a matter for the future. With regard to the objections that tho outflow of the septic tanks would pollute the water:and foreshore, he did not see why the outflow should not be conveyed'in covered sewers to deep winter. Then the question arose whether in connection with 'such a big scheme the Council should not get further advice. Personally, he .would approve of the city making the whole of the new connections. '

The Mayor In every country in the world tho peoplt, have to pay for the connections. In Wellington they got 10 years to pay. Mr. Entriean said ho would be favourable to doing the whole thing, including the connections. He believed a6d rate would do it, and he did not think the citizens would object to that if they got a perfect drainage scheme. ; He thought, however, they should first get Mr. Mestaycr's report reported

upon. '■ ' < Dr. Sharman: Who are we to get to do it? -

Mr. Entriean: Oh, there are plenty of men. • •

The Mayor: They will take 50 or 100 guineas and then endorse the report. Mr. 0. J. Parr said he had in season and out of season preached the doctrine that the city should have as perfect a drainage system as possible. He thought it a pity, however, that they had' not Mr. Mestayer present. They might, put questions to him and elicit valuable information. The only objection he could see to the scheme was the adoption of the septic tank principle, which, so far as he could find out, was in its experimental stage so far as cities are concerned. He could not find any large city that 'had proved the septic tank system as applicable to large bodies of sewage. Certainly, no town in the colonies of any. size had adapted it. It was an entirely new .thing so far as city sewage was concerned, and .Mr. Mestayer, competent engineer a3 he was, seemed to admit that ho had no experience of the working the septic tank system- Then Mr. Mestayer suggested that if tho existing sowers had been continued to low-water mark there w<#ild have been, no nuisance now. _ That rather' suggested that an attempt might be made to carry the sewers beyond low-water mark now. The Mayor: You cannot. '■'.■.

Mr. Parr: Why? The Mayor: The Health Department, the Government, and the. Harbour Board are all against you. The Government got an injunction against tho Drainage Board in Dunedin putting the sewago into the. ocean. Mr. Parr: Then it is time we had a change of Government. In any case, they ought to have Mr, Mestayer's opinion on this point. If they had the opinion of a competent engineer that it would bo right to carry the sewage beyond low-water mark, who was to prevent them doing it? If the Harbour' Board took the Council to Court and applied for an injunction, they would have to prove that the Council was creating a nuisance. Ho thought they should ask. Mr. Mostayer in the firstsplace whether, in his opinion, tho extension of the existing sewers to low water would prevent any nuisance arising. Mr. MeLebd : For how long? Mr. Parr: Say, for the next 25 years. The Mayor: What about Mr. Clarke's report in 1877? ;-, Mr. Parr said the sewage oi Auckland was so infinitesimal compared with the immense body of water in the harbour that if it was earned to low-water mark there would be no serious, pollution for the next hundred years. A certain amount of pollution could not be prevented in tho vicinity of a city. Another question they should put to Mr. Mestayer was whether the present sewers were ; insanitary, • apart from the outfall. Then they were entitled to know from Mr. Mestayer on what grounds he had reoominended the septic t-aak. • ■

The Mayor: He is putting it into a fairsized city now, and they' are considering doing it in Qhristchurch. ■ Mr. Parr: But we ought to be certain that it is the right thing to do before we spend a-quarter of a million of money, for it would come to that in the end. He agreed with Mr. Entrican that they ought to have the opinion of another engineer.•: The Mayor said he was much surprised at the remarks made; by Mr. Parr, who used to hold strong views on the necessity tor a new sewage- system. If the views, Mr. Parr had just expressed' were i his views some months ago,; he should have insisted on approaching the Harbour Board, and getting .over their objection to the , discharge of sewage iinto the harbour. ;It was admitted by all that Mr. Mesteyer'.s Wellington scheme was a perfect success. The, very large dram, age works- carried out by Mr.. Mesteyer in Adelaide were on the sewage farm principle, and he did not recommend that for Auckland Besides the Harbour Board, they had to deal with the Health Department, who administered a most drastic Act, and ho believed it was on the recommendation of the Health Department that the Harbour Board took the action they did. He thought it an extraordinary thing, after the Council had Rot the advice of the man who was supposed to be the best drainage expert in thfc colonies, that it should be proposed to spend another 200 guineas on another report. He thought it only reasonable and right that the ratepayers should hear from Mr. Mestayer 'what were his reasons for urging the septic tank system. He advocated the course of getting Mr. Mestayer to come to Auckland and attend a meeting of the Council. At present the death rate of Auckland was the highest in the colony. Some people said it was on account of the climate, but, in any case, they could not get over the fact that Auckland was not a healthy city. As to the pollution of , the foreshore, they had only to go to Freeman's Bay, when the tide was out, to find that out, and the .man who said, it was no worse than 20 years ago must have his nose tied. Ho moved, "That the meeting be adjourned until Mr. .Mestayer can come to Auckland to meet the Council. _ " Mr. McLcod said he would withdraw his motion .in favour of the Mayor's. , The Mayor mentioned that he wrote to the Agent.-General for New Zealand. some months ago for the latest information about drainage, and especially about septic, tanks, and the town clerk had written to the Council's agents in London on the same subject. Dr. Sharm'an supported the Mayor's suggestion. He regretted, however, that Mr. Mestayer's report had not been adopted. If it was true, as Mr. Casey said, that the harbour is as clean to-day as it was 20 years ago, then the harbour was in a most disgraceful and disgusting condition 20 years ago. He was frequently on the harbour, and he knew it was disgracefully dirty. He hoped they would bo able to get Mr. Mestayer up to Auckland without delay. Mr. S. C. Brown said he had all along been in favour of an improved and up-to-date system of drainage. The city must have a separate system of drainage. That was an absolute necessity. Pie would support-the adoption of Mr. Mestayer's report, with some minor alterations, when the time came. Meantime he supported getting Mr. Mestayer to ; Auckland. He behoved that since the system was adopted in Wellington typhoid had practically disappeared. Mr*. G. Knight said it was absolutely necessary that there should be an improvement in the drainage system. Some members .pledged, themselves to that when- they came into the Council.

The Mayor Mr. Casey included. . ', Mr. Knight said he .-believed the scheme would be eventually carried, but meantime he approved of Mr. Mestayer being asked to. come* to Auckland. Mr. L. J. : Bagmtll said he thought Mr. Mestayer's scheme a thoroughly practical and well thought-out ' scheme. ' The only point to his mind was whether the septio tank system was thoroughly satisfactory for the purpose. Ho was satisfied it was:most improper to continue putting sewage ;' into the harbour. It had been stated, that the strong tide carried the sewage out _to: sea, but there were very few rivers running into the Auckland Harbour, so that the tide ran in just about as fast' as it ran out, and the consequence was that the sewage was-simply carried up and down the harbour,; twice in the 2* hours. He did not think there was anything in the idea of having two tanks, which would only mean -extra expense. -According to Mr. "Mestayer's figures, the, cost of tlio scheme was not great. Probably a rate of 4£d in the £ would cover the cost, without the private" connections. :He approved of a conference with Mr. Mestayer, and hoped they would get more information about septio tanks. : '■' - The Mayor's motion was then put and carried unanimously, ;• ■ • . t