PARLIAMENT.

New Zealand Herald, Volume XXXVIII, Issue 11800, 1 November 1901, Page 6

PARLIAMENT.

[by telegraph.—press association.] 1 LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL. Thursday. , In- the Council last night nineteen loca ' Bills already dealt with by the Hous< . passed through committee, and were reac . a third time and passed. AID TO PUBLIC WORKS BILL. " The Aid to Public Works and Land Settle • ment Bill passed through all stages, aftei a short debate. ! OLD AGE PENSIONS BILL. . The Old Age Pensions Act Amendment ( Bill was taken in committee. On the Minister's motion a sub-clause was added, giving the deputy-registrar power to hold a preliminary inquiry in connection with any application for a pension. The Hon. G. McLean moved to add to clause 4 a sub-clause providing that before an application for a pension or renewal of pension is granted the magistrate shall satisfy himself that there is not in the Colony any near relative, as defined in section 2 of the Destitute Persons Act, 1894, who is able to maintain or contribute towards the maintenance of the applicant, and that to the extent of such ascertained power to contribute the amount of the pension otherwise granted shall be reduced. The Minister admitted that the principle was a reasonable one. and that children in a position to support their parents should be compelled to do so, but the clause had been sprung on him, and he asked time to consider it. The sub-clause was rejected by 12 to 9, and the clause passed. The Hon. G. Jones gave notice to move for the recommittal of the Bill, to insert a clause providing that if a magistrate finds that an applicant has any near relative in the colony able to wholly or partly support the applicant the magistrate may accordingly refuse such application, or grant a reduced pension. Tme Bill was reported as amended. The Council met at half-past two p.m. STATE COAL MINES BILL. The State Coal Mines Bill was received from the House, passed its first reading, and was read a second time pro forma and referred to the Goldfields Committee. CONCILIATION AND ARBITRATION BILL. The Minister for Education said he moved with regret the third reading, of the Industrial Conciliation and Arbitration Bill, as he considered that the power given to either party to set up special conciliators, and to refer a dispute direct to the Arbitration Court destroyed the Act's first principle of conciliation. The Hon. J. Twomey said that if he had the chance again he would vote against the special conciliators clause. He had voted for it in the hope that he could amend it subsequently. He supported direct reference to the Court by either party. The Hon. H. Scotland supported the third reading, and said there was no ground for morbid suspicion of the Arbitration Court. The Hon. J. E. Jenkinson spoke about I an hour and a-quarter against the Bill, i The Hon. A. Lee - Smith was speaking against the Bill's conciliation provisions, when the Council rose at five o'clock p.m. On the Council resuming, discussion on the third reading of the Conciliation and i Arbitration Bill was continued, the third reading being eventually carried by 20 to I 6, the division list being: — Ayes: Pitt, Harris, T. Kelly, W. Kelly, | Twomey, Reeves, Pinkertcn, Gourley, I Taiaroa, Feldwick. Jennings, Shrimski, Kenny, Ormond, Bo wen, McLean, Williams, Peacock, Montgomery, and the Minister. Noes: Lee-Smith, Rigg, Jones, Jenkinson, Barnicoat, and Bolt. ! The Bill then passed its final stages. OLD AGE PENSIONS BILL. At a quarter-past eleven, on the Minister's motion to read the Old Age Pensions 1 Bill a third time, the Hon. G. Jones moved ' to recommit the Bill, to move an amend- ! ment to clause 4, to provide that if the ; magistrate finds that an applicant for pen- | sion has any near relatives in the colony i who are able to wholly or party maintain such applicant, he may accordingly refuse the application, or grant a reduced pension. The Minister opposed the recommittal. On a division the voting was equal, 12 on each side. For puropses of further discussion, the Speaker gave his casting vote for the amendment, and progress way immediately reported. FINAL STAGES. The Egmont National Park Bill, and the Pariroa Native Reserve Bill, passed through their final stages. The Council rose at five minutes past twelve a.m. HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES. Thursday. STATE COAL MINES BILL. After the telegraph office closed this ! morning the discussion on the State Coal Mines Bill was continued in committee. Mr. Seddon said that Mr. Willis, at i whose instance the amendment was made ! by the House in the Industrial, Conciliation and Arbitration Amendment Bill, allowing either disputant to, go direct to the Arbitration Court, should have given due notice of it so that it might have been considered by a full House, and not have stolen into the law that which would sap conciliation and the general structure of the Arbitration Act. He was, he declared, going to stand by the Conciliation Boards and the conciliation law, and so give the ! country an opportunity of considering the i matter before so important a departure was ! made. I

Mr. Willis declared that he gave Mr. Seddon two hours' notice of his intention to introduce the clause.

Mr. Seddon denied this, and said it was another clause that Mr. Willis had drawn his attention to.

Mr. Seddon raised the point that Mr. Herries' proposal, if carried, would take from the statute and vest in another tribunal the power of fixing the rates of pay of Government employees, and the proposal could only be brought down by Governor's message. Major Steward, the Chairman, said he could not entertain the objection.

After further discussion Mr. Herries' proposed new clause was rejected by 29 to 23. Mr. Seddon moved a new clause, to provide that any award of the Arbitration Act relating to coal mines in the industrial district in which any State coal mine is situated shall, subject to such local variations as the Court thinks justified, apply to the State Coal Mine.

The clause was agreed to on the voices. Mr. Herries then moved the following new clause: " Unalienated Crown land shall include all Crown land held under any lease for depasturing purposes, or any occupation license, but shall not include any lease in perpetuity." This was lost by 37 to 11. Mr. Guinness asked whethei the Government would consider the advisability of starting a coal mine in the Grey district. Mr. Seddon: All districts are the same. The Government are not confined to the Grey or any other district. Mr. Guinness replied that he did not wish the Government to be confined to the Grey, but not to be confined to the Buller. as the report of the Commissioners indicated was being done. Mr. Seddon stated that the Government had a great responsibility and would select the best possible mine.

The Bill was then reported. On the motion for the third reading Mr. Herries said be considered the Premier's provision as between the coal mine employees and the Conciliation and Arbitration Act a weak one.

Mr. J. W. -Thomson could not see how i the State could make a success of the coalmining business. Mr. Seddon said the Bill was now a good workable measure, and he considered it would prove to be one of the most valuable ever placed on the Statute Book. The ' provision in regard to the Conciliation and Arbitration Act would be satisfactory to j every unionist. Public opinion would force j any Government to pay its employers a i fair rate of wages. Consequently there ; was no necessity to bring the Government; departments generally under the provisions i of the Conciliation and Arbitration Act. The j servants of the colony had in Parliament a tribunal quite satisfactory as the Arbitration Court. Those who claimed that this legislation should apply to the Government

departments thus hoped to injure the Government, and by this means to wipe labour legislation off the Statute He was very well satisfied with the State Coal 'Mines Bill as it stood. The third reading was agreed to on the voices, and the Bill passed. MAORI LANDS ADMINISTRATION 1 BILL. e Sir. Carroll moved the committal of the * Maori Lands Administration Act Amendment Bill. He said the Bill was necessary, because some of the machinery of the principal Act had proved to be unworkable, r and some clauses were consequently rendered inoperative. Captain Russell said he was convinced L the native land policy of last session had b proved a distinct failure, and this tinkering would not improve it. However, at I that hour (twenty-five minutes to three : a.m.) he was not physically able properly to discuss the question. He therefore moved the adjournment of the debate, which was negatived on the voices. [ After Mr. O'Meara had spoken, Mr. J Seddon said, after consultation with the I , Native Minister, it had been decided to , i postpone further consideration of the Bill. He moved tire adjournment of the debate, and added that it was the intention of the Government to put the Bill through this session. The motion was agreed to on the voices. The House rose at five minutes to three a.m. The House met at half-past two p.m. AUDITOR-GENERAL AND THE TREASURY. The Deputy-Speaker said he had received a communication from the AuditorGeneral in accordance with the provisions of section 53 of the Public Revenues Act, forwarding a copy of correspondence between the Auditor-General and the Treai sury regarding a case in which he had been overruled by Order-in-Council in an objection he took declining to sign debentures for £10,000 under the .Land for Settlement Consolidation Act, 1900, on the ground that the interest paid would be at a higher rate than four per cent. Mr. Herries said the House was entitled to some explanation on this matter. He contended that if the Solicitor-General's interpretation of the law was right, it was no use having a limit as to the rate of interest in the Act at all. Mr. Seddon said the Auditor-General was wrong in his interpretation of the law on tho point. The correspondence was referred to the Public Accounts Committee. MAORI LANDS ADMINISTRATION BILL. The debate on the motion for the committal of the Maori Lands Administration Act Amendment Bill was resumed by Mr. Hemes, who said the introduction of the Bill proved last year's measure was crude and unworkable. Not only did this Bill alter the machinery of the Act, but it also reversed the policy of the Act. He doubted whether the Bill would remedy anything, and he quite expected the whole thing would be hung up for another 12 months. The defects in last year's Act must have been enormous when the districts constructed were never attempted to be formed. Sir. J. W. Thomson suggested that | 4,000.000 of acres should be set aside for the natives who would derive the benefit of the revenue. He deplored the way in which the land was slipping away from the natives. | Mr. Witheford considered that the Government was doing all it possibly could to solve the native laud question. There J had been too much " coddling" of the nai tives, and that did them harm. Mr. Jas. Allen was afraid this Bill would only perpetuate the evil that already existed. He urged that South Island members should take more interest in this native question. It was a shame that in ! this colony any native should have to apply for an old age pension. Mr. Fowlds said that, apart from the Government, the blame for the failure of I the native legislation must be attributed ; i to the South Island members, who had as- ; ! sisted the Government to pass such legis- i ! lation, despite the protests of those who ■ j had studied the question. j j Mr. Lang endorsed this opinion. I i Mr. R. Thompson said he had failed to i discover what policy the Government : wished to adopt in regard to the native lands question. Mr. Field hoped the Bill would be amended in committee. Mr. A. L. Eraser strongly condemned the Bill as being altogether antagonistic to the interests of the natives, and entirely opposed to the dictates of Mr. Carroll's ; ! own heart. He urged that all racial dif- ; ferences should be thrown aside, and the j natives treated in the same way as Europeans. Instead of Mr. Carroll's influence being exerted to bring this about, he had j strengthened the line of demarcation between the two races. This native legislation was being forced down the throats of the natives by a man who knew as much j about native questions as he did about the constellations. This was the Premier. The debate was interrupted by the half- I past five p.m. adjournment. The House resumed at half-past seven p.m. I The debate on the motion for the com- ; mittal of the Maori Lands Administration Act Amendment Bill was resumed. Mr. A. L. D. Fraser, continuing his i speech, urged that before the Government allowed any alienation of Maori lands they should see that the natives had sufficient lands for their proper maintenance. Mr. Kaihau said la-st year's Act had very severely oppressed the North Island natives. He urged that the Maoris should be allowed to deal.with their land, in their own way. The Maoris were quite competent to administer their own affairs, and there was no necessity for any restrictions i being placed upon dealings in native lands. The Maoris in the North Island did not ; look with any favour on this Bill. ] Mr. Hone Heke opposed the removal of restrictions on the sale of native lands, and ] •urged that the balance of these lands should be reserved for the remainder of the race. , He contended that as last year's Act had i not been given a trial it could not yet be i described as a failure. Mr. G. W. Russell said it must be admit- ' ted that our administration in regard to ■ native land had been halting, changeable, and ineffective. He was pleased to see the formation of a Young Maori Party in New Zealand, and from that party there would be drawn into public life the ablest of the rising generation of natives. Mr. Monk held that various Governments had systematically wronged the natives in regard tc their lands. He suggested that the Government should set apart certain blocks of lands for the Maoris, and make them inalienable and untaxable. He opposed the Bill. He believed that this Act even if given a trial would prove futile. The discussion was still proceeding when the telegraph office closed at two o'clock this (Friday) morning.