NEW ZEALAND PARLIAMENT.

New Zealand Herald, Volume XXIV, Issue 8930, 20 December 1887, Page 6

NEW ZEALAND PARLIAMENT.

[BY TELEGRAM!.—PRESS ASSOCIATION,] LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL. Monday. s The Speaker took the chair At half*past two p.m.

LOCAL GOVERNMENT.

The Attorney-General, replying to Mr, Reynolds, said the Government had no intention to grant bonuses for the three best essays on a thorough system of local governmeat.

GOVERNMENT RAILWAYS BILL. The Council in committee considered the Government Railways Bill. Mr. Swanson, in clause 34, moved as an amendment that the Commissioners should not have the power to grant licenses to sell liquor at the stations. The Counoil divided, and the amendment was lost by 5 to 2L Some unimportant amendments were agreed to, and the Bill was reported with amendments.

LAND BOARDS. A message was reoeived from the House of Representatives, stating that they disagreed with the Council's amendment abolishing land boards. Mr. .'Stevens moved that the Council's amendment be insisted on, and that he, Mr. Bonnr, and Mr. Waterhouie, be appointed to draw up reasons for disagreeing. MISCELLANEOUS. The Wellington College and Girl's High School Bill was read a second time, as also

was the Christchurch District Drainage Bill. The Council went into committee on the Wellington College Bill, and at five o'olook adjourned to half-past seven. WELLINGTON COLLEGE AND GIRLS' HIGH SCHOOL BILL. The committee at half-past seven resumed consideration of the Wellington College and Girls' High School Bill. On clause 45, sub-section 2, Mr. Waterhouse moved an amendment, prohibiting the governors either selling or mortgaging the site on which the Girls' School is erected. The amendment alto sought to prohibit the mortgaging of any property held in trust by the governors. To this amendment Mr. Reynolds moved a farther amendment, protesting against the mortgaging of any country land* held in trust by the Governors. Another amendment was moved by Mr. McLean to strike out the words " the lands or " in the first subsection of Clause 20. preventing the Governors from bdlliug or mortgsgmg any of their lands, whether endowed or otherwise.

A division on the question that; that part of the clause utand, resulted as follows :— Ayes, 10; noes, 14. The words were struck out, thus limiting the mortgages to the rents and profit*. Clause 20, as amended, was agreed to, and the Bill as amended was reported. The Bill was read a third time, and passed.

CHRISTCHDKCH DRAINAGE BILL. The Christchurch District Drainage Amendment Bill was committed.

The Bill was reported with verbal amendments, and passed its final stages.

THE LAND BILL. The committee appointed to draw np reasons for insisting upon their amendments in the Land Bill, brought up their report, the chief item in which was that the Boards sought to be abolished were expensive, and in addition the committee believed that if the chief commissioner was left untrammelled, and permitted to act by himself, free from local influences, the Bill would have a better cnanoe of proving workable. The report was agreed to, and a free conference was agreed to, the managers for the committee being : -Messrs. O'Conor, Waterhouse, and Steward. MISCELLANEOUS.

The Gisborne Harbour Board Act Amendment Bill was read a second time.

Mr. Pharazyn moved the second reading of the Wangauui Harbour Board Bill.

Mr. McLean moved an amendment, That the Bill be read this day six months." Alter discussion the motion for second reading was rejected on a division by 7 to 18.

The Invercargill Waterworks Reserve Bill was read a second time and committed, reported without amendments, and passed all

stages. The Council adjourned at five minutes to eleven until the following day.

HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES.

Monday. The House resumed at 2 30 p.m. THIS EDUCATION ESTIMATES. In committee on the education estimates, Mr. Fisher desired to state that communications bad been received by the Government: from members representing both sides of the House, to the effect that if the Government did not press the question of raising the school age, they would not oppose the other propositions of the Government with respeot to education expenditure. He said the Government were willing te abandon the point of raising the school age to six if the House would agree to the other three points. Mr. Fi.3H protested strongly against this decision of the Government. He thought this was one of the points they should insist on, and be should divide the committee on the question whether or not the sobool age should be raised. Sir J. Vggel was at a loss to deal with the question owing to the extraordinary attitude of the Ministry. Large changes had practically been made by the Government without the authority of the House, and he con-, tended that though the changes could not be made without an Act of Parliament it was perfectly clear that the Minister for Education had not power to fix the age of sohool children under the regulations, tie thought as a rale it was not desirable that children should be sent to school before they were seven years of age, but if the age were increased a large number of children would bo debarred from receiving the education which they would otherwise receive. It was a retrograde step which should not be decided except by Act. He referred to the compromise spoken of by the Minister, but he wished to say that he was not aware of any such compromise, and he would strongly urge on those members who considered themselves as belonging to the Opposition not to agree to any arrangement whatever. They should insist on any alterations being carried out in a constitutional manner. He agreed with doing away with normal schools provided they were done away with legally. If such a large amount as £60,000 were taken from Education Boards it meant a reduction of 15 per cent, from the salaries of the teachers. Why was not such a reduction made from the Civil servants generally ? He hoped the committee would reject the proposal for raising the school age. Mr. Fishsb said the negotiations that bad taken place were evidently unsatisfactory to both sides of the House, and he would therefore ask the House to consider the proposals as originally brought down. Mr. Peacock was surprised at Sir J. Vogel's attitude, as although be expressed himself in favour of raising the school age he still advised the committee, for party purposes, to rejeot it. He supported the j raising of the sohool age. I Mr Obmond . was glad to hear that the I Minister had decided to adhere to his pro- ' posals, and he waa glad because bethought i the amount proposed by Mr Fisher was sufii» ■ cient for the education requirements of the ! country. He referred at some length to eduI cational matters in Hawke's Bay, and said that the schools thare were as efficiently ' taught, and as well conducted us any school* in In aw Zealand. They paid a higher average I in Hr.wke's Bay than in any other schools j in the colony, and where women teachers ! could be obtained in country districts they 1 Were employed with great advantage, and I resulted in considerable economy. In his ! opinion a fixed graduated scale for teachers' , salaries would be very effectual, and would : be the means of doing away with » large . amount of discontent. He challenged any hon. gentleman to get the opinion of the Inspector-General as to the general conditions of the schools In Hawke's Bay. With respeot to the raising of the school age to six he said that in many oases children of tha,t age were unable to get to sohools, and the general belief was that a child could get no real benefit from teaohiog at such an early age. Ho hoped the limit of the age to five - would not be insisted on, but if a proposal were made to raise it to seven he should oppose it. He was not able to prove to the House that,-, if other reductions were made, the strict average could be allowed without having reduction made in the > scale of salaries p«iit. He approved of the reduction of capitation to £3 15s, and the raising of the school age to six. He did not eoe bis w*.y to voting for any proposal to take away education, given over and above the 3th standard, ".nleM the primary and secondary systems were merged 1 primary and secondary systems were Catholic into one. Be held that the Roman Catholic portion of the community ware entitled to

' reasonable assistance for their schools, al» thou«h he agreed that the present was not the time to go into that question. Mr, Babbon disagreed with the proposals of the Government, ami he : deprecated snob a large question being dealt with at the last stage of the session. He thought the committee would be justified now in saying to the Government that they did not desire to make any change this year, and that the whole matter should be considered next session. He contended that they had not sufficient evidence before them at present to go into this large question. He should not support the Minister in any of the reforms he proposed, although he should be quite willing to give them careful consideration next sea* sion. Mr. Seddon spoke on the whole question at great length, and opposed the Government proposals. Mr. W. P. Reeves moved to reduce the total vote by £5, to test the feeling of the committee on the question. Mr. Fitzhkrbkkt supported the raising of the sohool age to six, and reduction of the capitation by 4s. Mr. Lodghkky said it waa quite evident from the expression of opinion all over the colony during the recent elections, that the people would not submit to any alteration in the school age. The people were proud of our education system, and he was surprised at so many members being in favour of an alteration in the system. He thought a great saving might be effected by the abolition of the Education Boards, but especially excepted the Hawke's Bay Education Board, the affairs of which were said to be ably administered by Mr. Ormond, who appeared to have a thorough grasp of the whols subject. He supported the reduction of the capitation to £3 15s, as it had been shown by the member for Napier that this was quite practicable. Mr. Walkkk hoped the Minister would carefully note all the arguments that had beeu advanced, and come down with more matured proposals next session. The debate was interrupted by the halfpast five adjournment. The Committee resumed at half-past seven p.m. Mr. Walker continued his remarks on the education vote. He opposed the proposals, and suggested they should be considered separately. Mr. Allen pointed out the minimum school age was higher in other countries than in New Zealand. He supported the proposals except that he thought those affecting the average and the training schools might be left over till next session.

Dr. Fitchktt thought the Government had been premature in this matter, and he urged that it should be allowed to stand over till next session. fie was certain that a very large saving could be made without carrying the present proposals. Mr. Duncan would not support the proposals unless all possible economy were first made in the system. If that wan done they oould have a comprehensive scheme. Progress was reported at this stage. MISCELLANEOUS. Wellington Girls' High School Bill: The Mini tkr of Education moved "That the amendments of the Legislative Council be agreed to." Carried. Christchurch District Drainage Bill: Tne amendments made in this Bill by the Legislative Council were agreed to. Land Bill: The Legislative Council having insisted on its amendments to this Bill, the Minister of Lands moved " That the amendments be disagreed with, and that Messrs J. McKeozie, Beatham, and the mover be managers to represent the House in a free conference." Csrried.

THE EDUCATION VOTE. The consideration of the education vote was resumed. Dr. Newman disapproved of the proposals generally, holding that money oould be saved from the library fund and from higher education, which could be swept away altogether. He nrged the Minister to adhere to his promise to drop the question of raising the school age. Mr. O'Callaghan opposed the proposal, and charged the Minister with disingenuousliens in saying that a Board had a balance of £90 0, wheD, as a matter of fact, the board referred to—the North Canterbury Board— had had a current balance of that amount for years. The Minister said he did not refer to that board, and he had said £500, not £9000. Mr. Dodson supported toe proposals, and Mr. Levjstam opposed them. Mr. Grimmond expressed his intention of voting against the proposals of Government. Mr. Steward supported the raising of the school age, and the reduction of capitation to £3 15s. He differed from the Minister in abolishing the normal sohools. Mr. Hutchison spoke against the education proposals at some length. Mr. Moss also opposed them, and urged that they should stand over till next session. Even for a retrenchment purpose the whole education system of the colony should not be deranged. He should object to interfere with it for the sake of saving £10,000 or £15,000 on the education estimates.

Mr. Makchant thought the education system too costly, and he felt that the country was not getting value for its money. He was thoroughly in accordance with the proposal to raise the school age to six, and he alno supported doing away with the training sohaols. He had no fear that the cause of education would suffer through the proposals of Ministers. Mr. Ross would vote for reduction of capitation allowance, but would oppose the raising ot the school age. Mr. Fisher, referring to the argument used, that the proposals should stand over till next session, asked was it fair to do this when the Education Boards of Otago, Hawke'g Bay and Auckland had voluntarily stated that it was quite impossible to carry on the oducatiou system at a much reduced cost without impairing its efficiency. He hoped the House would come to a vote on the four proposals submitted by the Government.

[Left sitting.]