GENERAL ASSEMBLY.

New Zealand Herald, Volume XX, Issue 6749, 5 July 1883, Page 6

GENERAL ASSEMBLY.

[BI TELEGRAPH.—PBBSB ASSOCIATION.] LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL. Wednesday, bills advakckd. The New Zealand University Act Amendment Bill was read a first time, and the Married VVomena' Property Bill a third time. FBESEKV&TION OP TIMBER. On the motion of Mr. CHAMBERLAIN, a return was ordered of all laud reserved for the growth and preservation of timber. THE BABBIT ACT. Mr. Ciiambkrlin moved that the administration of the Rabbit Act in Auckland was unsatisfactory. Sir O. WiiiTMORE moved the addition of tbe words "to the Hon. Mr. Chamberlin," but withdrew the amendment at the request of the Speaker Mr. Chamberlin, speaking to his motion, complained that the Rabbit Inspector of the Raglan district had acted tyrannically towanis himself. The motion was rejected without debate. BILLS OF EXCHANGE. T!ie < 'ouucil again went into committee on the Bills of Exchange Bill, which was passed thr- ugh, aud read a third time. Tht-i Council adjourned at 3.25 p.m. until Frioay, there being no business to-morrow.

HOUsE OF REPRESENTATIVES. Wednksday. The House met at half-past two. Q'JKSTIOSS AND ANSWERS. liep'ying to Mr. Wilson, Mr. Juhnston eaid it was not intended to give special inducements for railway passengers io take return tickets. Government having a monopoly of tbe railway traffic, the e U not the same reason for offering inducements in that direction as companies hart, mkl they were more inclined to lower tht-. oiilinary tares, so that the advantages of cheao traffic might be secured to all. .Replying to Mr. Postletiiivaitk, Mr. Johnston said the question of fencing railway lines was uniier the consideration of GovornramS. Incases where land had been taken, and compensation paid, he believed the estimated cost of fencing was included. Tke cost of fencing would probably amount to £100,000, and the Government were desirous of ascertaining if it could not reli-ve itse'f from that burden. In repKii'g to Mr. Barron, Mr. Dick said Government did not intend amending the law so that no person shall have more than one vote in the election of members for the House of Representatives, nor yet did they inteud tn amend the regulation of Elections Act, ISSI, so as to extend the ho'.rs for polling.

Keplying to Mr. Daniel, Mγ. Johnston said that workmen employe 1 by Government sub-contractors were entitled to be paid fortnightly cash, and it was their duty to look after their own rights in this respect.

Replying to Mr. Allwrioht,

Major Atkinson said that certain provissions hail been made to prevent the overloading of ships. Harbourmasters had authority to detain ouch ships, and the Government could not see its way to go further in that direction at present A Bill dealing with the question of boats and other matters would be brought down this session. Replying to Mr. Turnbull, Major Atsissok vaid £40,000 railway debentures wure held by the Government Insurance Department as security for the £40,000 alluded to in the report of the Coni'iii-sioner. The amount was repayable in 1909. ADULTERATION , . Oil the mo'ion of Mr. Dick, the Adulteration Prevention Act Amendment Bill wjis introduced, and read a first time. ABSENTING MKIIBKRS. Mr. Barron moved, " That in the opinion of this Houie the permission extended to members to absent themselves for tive days during the sitting of Parliament without deduction fiom their pay, in accordance with resolution agreed to on 25ch August, 1874, shoul'i not apply to the last ten sitting days of any session, and that in addition to the proportionate deduction provided for in such resolution, a special deduction of five guineas per day should be made from the honorarium of any member who absents himself during the List ten days of any session." He exp : aiued that he had b.ought forward a similar mntion in 1880, and that a promise wae then given by Sir John Hall, a member the of Government, that he would support the motion if again put forward. Msjor Atkinson hoped members would not agree to the motion. It was proposed thie session to deal with the whole question of the payment of members, and this question be dealt with then. He thought it mi;;ht be fairer to direct their attention to members who consume a large amount of time in useless talk. .That might be fairer than to inflict a fine on members who might happen to be compelled, from argent reasouß, to leave. Mr. Siiephaed moved, as an amendment, that all the latter part of the motion be omittrd. Mr. Georce opposed the motion, stating tbat the Government were to blame for members goini; away before the dose of the session. They despatched the Government steamer some daye before the prorogation. Mr. Tobkbull supported the motion. It was a most important question. Iα ISBO, at the very close of the session, when a number of members had gone, most important proposals were brought down, and but for a determined resolution on the part of these remaining serious injury would have resulted. Mr. Watt suggested that the impost should apply to members absentiog themselves at trie beginning of the session as well as at the close. Mr. Montgomery supported the motion. Mr. Shel'Hard's amendment was carried on the voices, and on a division that motion as amended was lost by 25 to 33. EETCTRXS. A largo number of unopposed orders for returns v/ere agreed to. SIS GEvJI'.QE GKEY'S CANTEREORiT KAILV, r AY MOTION. On the motion of (Sir G. Grey, it was agreed to go into committee next Wednesday to consider of an address to the Governor, to request Bis Excellency to cause a sum to be plactsd on the estimates for the construction of a railway for the connection of tbe city of Chridtchurch with the West Coast of the Middle Island.

Major Atkinson reserved to the Government the right of opposing the proposal when again brought up.

HANSARD. Mr. Feldwick moved that the number of copiee of Hansard to each number be increased from 12 to 20 copies. Mr. Dick objected, stating that it would involve an additional expenditure of £203, and the advantages were highly problematical. Attar some diecusaion, Mr. Fkidwick, in reply, pointed out that the expense of Hansard wae largely swelled by the co3t paid for correcting members' speeches. The latter cost nearly a third of the total amount, and he contended that if the privilege was withheld of correcting speeches then the cost of increasing numbers of copies, as proposed by tho motion, would be more than compensated for. The House divided : Ayes, 44. Noes, 24. The motion was carried. AI'PUENTICE SEAMEN. Mr. Daniel moved, " That it is desirable vessek registered in New Zealand should carry a number of boys as apprentices in proportiqn_to the tonnage, and that tho attention of the Government be directed to this matter, with a view to the necessary legislation thereon." Mr. Suephard and Major Atkinson objected to the motion, which was negatived on the voices. LOCAL GOVERNMENT. Mr. Montgomery gave notice of the following motion : "That the existing system of c-ntr.il government has failed to realise the result anticipated, and that the promises and engagements made at the time of abolition of the provisions have not been fulfilled; that in consequence of this centralising policy much discontent prevails throughout New Zealand ; that to eueure accuracy and efficieuoy in the administration, of local affairs is. is necessary that all such local affaiie, including public works, should be withdrawn from the control of the central Government, and vested in local governing bodies, elected by districts having community of interest." He said he uuderstood Ministers would be prepared to give him an early opportunity for discussing this motion. Major Atkijison said he understood that Mr. Montgomery bad no wish that it should be accepted as a no-confidence motion, but if carried it might result in such. There was no wish, however, in the meantime to stop business, so that ho would give this day next week for its discussion. The House rose at half-past five.

The House resumed at half-past seven. LOCAL OPTION.

Mr. M. W. Green moved the second reading of the Losal Option Extension Bill. Mr. Fish argued that the Bill was one which proposed a startling change in the law as at present existing. With the view of enabling the country to understand its objects, he moved tho adjournment of debate to that day three weeks.

Mr. LevkstaM supported the amendment for adjournment. Mr. Sutton argued that local option had been a failure, and that there was really no necessity for its extension a 8 proposed by the Bill.

Mr. J. W. Thomson defended the local option principle. He denied that thepopulatiou was indifferent to ita operations. The number of petitions presented that day in support of local option completely negatived tbat contention. The chief feature of the Bill was the female vote, and that, he contended, was a wise and prudent step, inasmuch as that it was women and children who suffered most from the abuse oE the liquor traffic. He had not much hope of Inhalation enforcing temperance, but this Bill was in a right direction.

The House divided on the question of adjournment. Ayes, 32 ; noes, 30. The d -bate was adjourned. ANNEXATION AND CON'FSDI RATION.

Sir G. Grky moved the second reading of Annexation and Confederation Bill. It was a most important measure, and dealt with a question of wide interest. The Bill proposed a solution of grave difficulties, and it would be beneficial to New Zealand in many ways. There Jay in our vicinity many islands of great fertility, capable of producing all the staples aud luxuries of life. With these we could carry on a most lucrative trade, but at present one could enter into no political relations with these islands. The early settlers here had paved the way for annexation of this kind, as we had opened our charities and educational endowments to the natives of all the islands in the Pacific. The home Government had made a move iu the same direction as he proposed, Mr. Gladstona a few days ago recommending almost au identical course. The labour traffic and smuggling had sprung up in. connection with those islands, -and if not checked would cause us great trouble. The Bill only aimed at the Government appointing a commission to negotiate respecting a few islands, not occupied by a foreign Power, joining New Zealand. If a war broke out with Europe it would be most desirable we should have power to arm vessels and unite for tho purpose of mutual protection, thereby providing for our protection. The commission would negotiate and report terms for coofederation with the view of applying to the British Parliament and getting the terras sanctioned.

Major Atkinson would not object to the second reading, but asked that the Bill be referred to the Select .Committee already appointed on the annexation question. He found nothing iu the Bill in the direction stated by Sir G. Grey It empowered the Government to do, without reference to the House, what he thought should not be done without special reference to Parliament. It was a power which should not be left to the (ioverumeut. The Bill only provided for the Government negotiating. They had at present full power to negotiate with tliese islands, so they could do without the Bill precisely whit the Bill proposed. The Bill, however, did not appropriate any money for the purpose.

Sir G. Grey agreei that the Bill should be referred to the committee. This Bill authorised the Governor to act in case of emergency, when perhaps they could not get the House together. He wanted the Governor to be able to act temporarily when any emergency arose, as the Sovereign acted at home, but that, otherwise, nothing definite should be done until sanctioned by tho Uouse. The Governor would only collect information for the House, and leave the House to say what wa? to bo done. He had no desire to see the Governor do anything that properly belonged to that House ; bat, of course, the House would have to make good any expenditure.

The motion for the second reading was carried.

Sir G. GRF.r moved, "That the Bill be referred to the committee already appointed." Carried.

AFFIRMATION BILL. Sir G. Grev moved the second reading of the Affirmation Bill. It was another really important measure. Its oltject was to do away with oathe and in lieu thereof substitute a simple affirmation. If such affirmation were false, th;n tho same penalties would be provided f.r as in case of a false oath. The time had come when a man should bo enabled to stand forth and simply make an affirmation instead of, as at present, take an oath or say he had conscientious objections to do so. To pass such a great measure would place New Zealand in the van of the march of progress and civilization.

The Bill was read a second time. A RIGULAIION OF HOOKS OF SHOPKEEPERS.

Mr. Al. W. Green* moved the second reading of the Regulation of Hours of Shopkeepers and Others Bill. He would only ask that the second readiag be passed pro forma, and then allow the Bill to drop, so that the country might have an epporti<nity for considering the matter, and if thought good it could come on again next session and be passed into law.

Air. Pisa thought the House should not be asked to affirm a principle like this. It really seemed to him that Liberalism had run mad when the qreat aim of Liberals seemed to bo to interfere aa much as possible with the liberty of the subject. The Bill was a most unfair and tyrannical measure. A large, well established shopkeeper might fiud it convenient to close at an early hour, while the small dealer might find it ruin to close up hi* premises at that hour. He moved it be read that day six months.

Mr. Fem'.cts seconded, and spoke in support of the amendment. The Bill never had any chance of becoming law, and it wos utterly wrong to take op their time in such a meaningless way. The proposal of the Bill was most tyrannical, and ought to be discountenanced.

Mr. Joyce supported the Bill. Mr. Button opposed the Bill, and Mr. Skhdon supported it.

Mr. J. B. White supported the principle of the Bill, if it would finable twn-thirds of this House to make the other third "shut up." Mr. Hutchison opposed and Mr. Petbie supported the Bill. The House divided on the question of the second realing : Ayes, 22 ; noes, 41. The amendment for reading that day six months was carried. SALE OF GOODS BY RETAIL BILL. Mr. IiATHGATE moved the'second reading of the Sale of. Goods by JKetail Bill. The object was to check the system of indiscriminate creilit which existed amongst retail dealers, who trusted to the law to enforce their claitrs. The present co-operative system was due to the efforts of a few industrious persons to live without doing their business on the credit system. There was no end to the benetits flowing from the ready-money system, as there was no end to the evils llowiug from an indiscriminate credit system. If it could be shown that the selling of goods by retail or credit was injurious to tho public weal, then it was wrong for the law to protect these transactions. Tho passing of the Bill would do away with tho necessity for a bankruptcy law, and would otherwise eave a lot of moaey at present thrown away in legal and other expenses. The principle of the Bill was not new, as it alre idy existed in the law relating to tho retailing of intoxicating liquors. Mr. Mijnro argued that credit was a necessity of the commercial system, He denied that the leyal resource was to a great extent relied upon in the giving of credit. He moved that the Bill be read that day six months. The questiou was put that tho Bill be read a second time : Ayes, IS ; noes, 48. The ameuilinent was carried, and tho Bill thrown out. CONSTITUTION AMBSDMBNT. SirG. (jRKY moved tho second reading of the Cunstituti'n Act Amendment Bill. His task was a difficult one. Ho was about to ask this one crumb of the Legislature, to sanction the abolition of tho other Chamber. He looked upon that branch as an incubus and hindrance to the well-being of tbc community. In seeking ita abolition he was actuated by a sense of public duty. Originally the Legislature of this and other colonies consisted of a Governor and one body. A prejudice, however, existed against a eingle Cnamber, and it was attempted t'» graft on another body. Tho only use healtiibuted to this second Chamber was that it induced careful legislation. He believed that was a mistake. He believed that the experiment made iu this colony of one Chamber was successful. The fact that

the Provincial Legislatures eucceeded no well was instanced in support of that contention. It had also worked well in South Africa and some countries of Europe. Great embarrassment arose from the existence of the second Chamber. He had himself met with great difficulties from it. He had had to modify his measures, knowing that if he did not do so they would not pass them. Second, there were no distinct p»rty lines in this colony, so that a measure going through this House would not be taken up in the other Chamber with the same certainty or chance of success. Again, he believed that the legislation of the other Chamber was unfair. He believed that the legislation in this House had been rejected in the othar Chamber without due reflection. Thoy found that Bills passed by the House were thrown out by that Chamber only to be re-introduced there as if emanating from the Council and passed by them, giving them all the apparent credit of haviog created the very measures they at first rejected. The members of the [ House of Lords at home were all men retired from business, and who could exercise no influence as bankers or heads of money-lend-ing companies. Here in the colonies it was different. They were connected for the most part with business, and to a great extent they exercised a monetary influence on tbe members of the House. There could be no comparison between the House of Lords and their Upper Chamber as constituted here. He asked, was not the whole Legislature of the country moulded by the Upper House? When a Ministry was formed, colleagues had to be chosen from that House, and the Government had therefore to modify their opinions in difference to the opinions of their colleagues in the Upper House. Then again, the practice of members passing from House to House was a breach of constitutional law. That was a very damaging state of affairs. He contended that anyone having been called by his Sovereign to the Upper House, had no right to abandon thit position and come down to the Lower House, knowing that whon it suited his purpose, he would return to the place again from whence he came. The large number of members in the Legislative Council weakened the choice of representation, and by that means another great injustice was wrought. Again, the town in which the Legislature sat, was almost sure to be over represented in that Chamber. In that way, a fourth or a fifth of the Chamber consisted of members representing the one district. Ministers had their men constantly at their sides, and in that way unjust legislation was brought about. By abolishing this Chamber all these evils would be obviated. They were real evils, and real good would result from the chauge he sought. The prevailing opinion at present among able minds wasthatasecond Chamber was quite unnecessaiy. Such aleo were his own convictions —the convictions of a lifetime, and the result of deep thought and research. The result of his observations had been that all second Chambers, even the House of Peers at home, obstructed and delayed sound legislation and all reform in the interests of the people, and in that way tended to evil legislation. He felt sure that the House could do all the work, and do it more efficiently by itself. Major Atkinson said there were two reasons why the motion should not be pressed. The first was that the measure was of such large importance that it must be dealt with by Government, if dealt with at all; and second, the mover had not shown any reasons why it should pass. There was no statement that the colony demanded it. The objection that certain Bills had not passed was not a sufficient reason. Because the House of Lords had legislated badly, and that there was no similarity between that body and the Legislative Council, was certainly not any reason for believing that the Council would legislate badly. Be denied that the Legislative Council had any influence in the making or unmaking of Governments. Sir G. Grey had told them that this Bill was a life-thought on his part. It was rather extiaordinary that he should only come in at the eleventh hour and make known that thought. He had made members of the Legislative Council without a word about this life-thought and conviction. Until the Government proposed to deal with the question, it was out of the question for a private member to interfere. To propose a measure like > this, after the declaration in the Governor's speech, was quite unparliamentary. The question was of 'such large importance that Parliament would not be justified in dealing with it until an appeal had been made to the country. That was what Government proposed. He believed the country desired to see some change in the mode of the constitution of the Council, and the Government would propose a measure this session, to take effeot after the General Election. Such being tho case, he hoped Sir G. Grey would see his way to withdraw hie Bill. If not, he would ask them to refuse to pass the motion and to wait until the Government bad had an opportunity for submitting its measure.

Mr. Moss said he was a Democrat, and because bo was one ho held that a second Chamber was necessary to secure the rights, liberty, and safety of the people. Such a Chamber was the one sheet-anchor of a State. It was necessary to control the impetuous course of representative legislation. They represented only for three years, and wjre liable to interference and other influeuces, and where would they be but for the restraining influences of an older Chamber, one not liable to be suspended in such a short term. The existence of two Chambers in a democratic form of government doubled the security. The provincial councils were not entrusted with tho lives and liberties of the people. Then the analogy between this and the provincial legislatures did not hold good. They would search history in vain to find a country successfully governed by a aingle Chamber. Without a second Chamber, there would be no stability in the institutions of the colony, and in the absence of such stability, they would damp energy and enterprise in every possible way. The second Chamber was nominated by the Government of the day, and its members were unlimited. That was a f.reat check upon its liability to abuse its power. The colony was at present shadowed with the influence of a great land company. He did not know where it would make its appearance and it might be when there was but a small House. In that case, what was to save them but the interference of the Legislative Council. The nominated system waß the best he could conceive, and if they made large electoral districts the result would be that the etaid, quiet msn they required would not undergo the trouble and toil of a candidature frr such district.

Mr. Levestaji would oppose any attempt to alter the constitution of tho Council from a nominated to an elective eyotem. Mr. J. W. Thompson said they must bear in mind tbat the Council had invariably given way when it became evident the Lower Houst) was determined to pasa its measures. Mr. Pisu felt that a change was necessary, but his mind was not yet made up as to what that change should be. Any reform should be a gradual one. Mr. Kelly admitted that a change was necessary, but the Bill was too radical. Instead of life nomination he thought nomination for a period of years would be an improvement.

Mr. Trimisi.k thought that the furthest they could safely go into chauging the constitution of the Council at present was to limit the duration of office to say seven or 10 years.

Mr. Montgomery did not consider that Sir G. Grey went out of his way in introducing the Bill. At the same time he acquiesced in the opinion that the whole question should be relegated to the general election.

Sir G. Grey replied. The Treasurer had reproached him tor bringing forward this measure, he being a private member. He could say to the Government that they could go to the country on their merits, and he (Sir G. Grey) would go on his Bill, and leave the country to judge between them. Ho was certain tho people of the colony were with him in his measure.

Tha House divided : Ayes, 11; noea, 35. The following \taa the division list:—Ayee, 11 : Bracken, Buchanan, J. Daniel, DeLautour, Feldwick, George, Grey, Harris, Smith, Swanson, Tols. Noes, 35; Ailwright, Atkinson, Barron, Botham, Buchauan (ftl. C), Connolly, Fitzgerald, Fulton, Green (J.), Grceu (M. W.J, HurstLouse, Kelly, Lurnach, Lee, McKenzio (F. W.), Mcli wraith, McMillan, Mitchelson, Montgomery, Morris, Moss, Munro, O'Csllaghau, Peacock, Pearson, Potrie, Poatlethwaite, Rolleston, Sutter, Sutton, Thomson, H. Thomson, J. Trimble, Watt. Pairs.—For : Hutchison, Xurnbull, Batbgate, Cadman, Seddou, Sheeban, Taiaroa, J. McKenzie, Holmea, Ivess, W. White, Duncan, Joyce, McDonald, J. C. Brown. Against: Wynn Williams, AVright, Maeon, Dick, J. E.

Brown, Whitaker, Hurst, C. J. Johnston, W.. W. Johnston, Levistam, J. G. Wilson, Bryce, Shaw, Stevens, Fergus. The House rose at ten minutes past one a.m.