GENERAL ASSEMBLY.

New Zealand Herald, Volume XVIII, Issue 6140, 22 July 1881, Page 6

GENERAL ASSEMBLY.

[by telegraph.—press association.] ■ LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL. ■ Thursday. The Council met at 2.30/ NATIVE DISPUTE AT HAWKE'S BAY. Replying to Captain Fraser, Mr. Whitaker said the Government had done and would do everything possible to settle the dispute between the natives and Mr. Harding, at Waipawa, Hawke's Bay. BOYS USISO AKMS. Replying to Mr. Norsk, Mr. Wiiitaker said the Government would consider the propriety of preventing boys using arms. BIBLE IK SCHOOLS. A motion by Dr. Menzies in favour of Bible reading in schools was carried by 15 to 12, Mr. Whitaker having moved the previous question. For Dr. Menzies' motion :— Messrs. Baillie, Miller, Parazyn, Scotland, Acland, Holmes, Wilson, Peter, Robinson, Nurse, Reynolds, Martin, Brett,Mantell, and Menzies. Against:—Messrs. Pollen, Williamson, Fraser, Chamberlain, Diguan, Wood, Lahraann, P. Buckley, G. Johnson, Peacock, Whitaker, and Hart. BILLS ADVANCED. The Companies Bill was read a third time. The Banks and Bankers Act Amendment Bill was again committed and further amended, one amendment being that it is not to come into operation till January 1, 1882. The Regulation of Elections Bill was passed through committee, an amendment by Mr. Reynolds to make voting compulsory, under penalty of being struck off the roll, being rejected. The Oamaru Harbour Board Bill was partly passed through committee.. The Council rose at o p.m.

HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES,

Thursday. • The House met at 2.30. Bellamy's. Sir W. Fox gave notice that he would move in the direction of prohibiting the sale of intoxicating liquors in the Parliamentary Buildings. MEMBERS AN'D PUBLIC INSTITUTIONS. : Replying to Mr. Andrews, Mr. Dick said the Government would give facilities for enabling members of the House to visit the gaols, lunatic asylums, and hospitals of the colony. PROPOSED DUTY OX MAIZE. Replying to Mr. McDonald, Major Atkinson said a committee was now considering the propriety of imposing a duty on maize imported into the colony, and until the re3iilfc of their labours was made known the Government was not prepared to say what they would do in the matter. VOLUNTEERS IN BAY OF PLENTY. Replying to Mr. McDonald, Mr. Rolleston said the Government had given no indication of an intention to withdraw the capitation allowance from the volunteer corps in the Bay of Plenty district. When the estimates came down it would be seen what the Government proposed doino- in the matter. RAILWAY WORKSHOPS AT XHW3IARKET. Replying to Mr. Tole, Mr. Hall said that Government did not see their way to spare money sufficient for building the railway workshops at Newmarket at present, all the spare money being reqnired for more pressing works in the Auckland district. PATENTS. Roplying to Mr. Bakron - , Mr. Dick said although not prepared to say they would this session legislate on the suggestion to amend the law affecting patents for conviction within the colony (1) by reducing the fee on deposit of specification to £1; (2)by doing away with advertising, except in the ls T ew Zealand Gazette, such advertising to be free of cost to the applicant; (3) by reducing the final payment to £1, payable at or before the expiration of the fifth instead of the third year as at present; (4) by issuing letters patent for seventeen instead of fourteen years as at present. NO-CONFIDESCE DEBATE. Mr. Sutton resumed the debafce on the no-confidence motion. He admitted that the Treasurer's speech had been an attractive one, bnt said that it did not touch on the real question at issue. The only practical suggestion it contained was that the Government should allocate £200,000 for opening up the Crown lands of the North Island. Ho denied that that proposal was at all tenable. If they could carry on their works properly without borrowing, he would be in favour of doing so, but he much doubted it. He defended the House against the imputation that it lacked the ability of affording redress. Referring to Mr. Ormond, he said he liked an honest opponent, but he could- not characterise Mr. Ormond as such. Whatever the result might be, the action taken by him would delay the business of the country. Redistribution of seats was fully expected, and now, in consequence of this action, it must be delayed for another Parliament. The real object of the motion was the mover's hatred of the property tax. Failing to get rid of that tax he was determined to get rid of the Ministry. Presuming he succeeded in driving them to the country, then he could tell them that they would return to Parliament stronger than ever.

Captain Russell said that if the amendment was carried the'effect would be to bring into office a class of men whose avowed policy was a return to provincialism. He discussed at great length the utter impossibility ■of Mr. Ormond ever working in unison with the men with whom he was leagued. Mr. Seymour opposed Mr. Ormond's amendment.

Mr. Taiaboa spoke against the Government, and condemned adversely the proposal to rate native lands. The House adjourned at 5.30 p.m. - The House resumed at 7.30. ' • The debate was renewed by Mr. Taiakoa. He complained that the Government had acted most unfairly towards the Maori prisoners, and also towards himself. It was an indifference to Maori interests that had prompted the Government to put forward a Bill of this kind. He intimated his intention of voting for the amendment. : Mr. Bunny announced his intention of voting against the- amendment. .He had strongly opposed abolition, and Mr. Ormond had strongly supported it;, but he felt that they could not now go back to provincialism. "What need was there for them to go to the country now ? They would, in the natural course of events, go to the country soon enough for some of them, but let them first finish the work they had got to do, and then let them go to the country at the proper time. •■■ , - '■ - ' ■-. - .•.■Mγ. "Weston .advised Government to. gracefully withdraw their proposals, so as. to admit of a more acceptable scheme being brought forward. The proposal to allow the trust funds of the colony to b'emade use of , for local purposes was to his mind contrary to all propriety. •' It 'was' utterly wrong in principle/' If the local bodies were unable to repay the : money, then the colony would have • to : do it. If- they trifled with -their- trust property in that way- they ' werei ; bound to damage the public credit. The proposed constitution of the boards of works 'was next criticised and he declared it to be an effort to bolster up centralism , again. To rate native lands as.was proposed Wak •wrong. , 'It virtually meant ■ taking : the' land" froni' them.They should allow this Parliament to die out, and take the opinion of the public on the question.at the approaching elections. That would be the proper course to pursue. He

next referred to Sir George Grey's Local Government Bill which he also criticised adversely. It was more visionary than the proposals'of the Government. He referred to the remarks made by Sir George Grey, about the judges. It was an attack of the worst kind, cruel and utterly unfounded. He denied that there was the slightest grounds for any charge against the Bench. He would vote against the amendment, and at the same time he would rote against the Bill brought down by the Government. Sir G. Grey said that, in reference to the statement made Vy the previous speaker, there was a judge who, being supposed to have a strong predeliction for a central government, had recently told a jury that the double form of government had been instrumental in causing a miscarriage of justice. If any other judge pursued the same line of conduct, he would repeat what he had' already eaid. ■ ■ Mr. Hall reproached Sir George Grey for the attack he had made, and the explanation just given of that attack made the matter worse. The terms of the amendment left the Government no alternative but to accept it as a vote of no-confi-dence. The appearance of the lobbies also indicated that this was a no-confidence motion. If Mr. Ormond did not meau to unseat the Government, it was plain enough the Opposition meant to do it under his auspices. He denied that there was anydiscontent witli the existing local institutions, or any demand for a new form. The only real complaint was a want of mcane to carry ont that work. What was wanted was as-

sistance to work out existing, institutions, and not to alter them. The charge made by Mr. Ormond, that the session had been wasted by the Government, had been completely answered in the fact that, although they had only had twelve sittiug days for Government business, they had passed measures of the highest importance to the social well-being of the country. They had been charged with having pursued a "do-nothing policy." The truth was that an absence of pecuniary resources had compelled them to put on the drag on public works. He defended the Government against "the charge of not having brought down the Redistpbutionßill at the commencement of the session by saying it was impossible till they had the census returns. The local Boards of various kinds had been complained of as too numerous, but when looked into it would be found that they distributed the labour of local administration amongst the people. Sir George Grey proposed mo3t radical changes. He was going to remove the fetters imposed by the constitution—his own constitution. The proposals about making the judges elective had been already answered by Mr. Weston, and he would not further refer to that point. He charged Sir G. Grey with having tampered with his speech in Hansard." If Sir G. Grey's proposals were carried out, it appeared to him that one-half of the people of the colony would be employed governing the other half. He criticised clause 2S of Sir G. Grey's Bill, giving it as an example of his financial fallicies. In Mr. Saunders's speech there was a great deal with which he agreed with. He knew the Road Boards had done good work. He could not think that provincialism without legislation, could possibly cure any ills under which they suffered. Would Timaru, in Canterbury; Oamaru and Southland, in Otago, be content to have their offices administered from the respective provincial centres. He had no reason to be ashamed of the work done b3' the provinces. Still, provincialism had had its day. Let them by all means go to the country with Mr. Sheehan's proposal for the restoration of the provinces. Mr. Wood knew better than to talk about restoring provincialism. He denied the assertion made by Mr. Wood that this local go verament question was not thought of until the demand for it arose in the House. The fact was that the Bill before the House was practically before the House last year. There were 63 counties in the colony, and :hat did not look as if there was auy deficiency of local government. Then they had the Road Boards, and of the two he was of opinion they were the most serviceable. Any difficulty in the Road Board administration consequent on the changes brought about by abolition would have long since been provided for but for the conduct of those members who desired to return to provincialism. Government proposed to decentralise as far as possible, but they did not wish to see the colony cut up into a number of feeble states, unable to do good themselves and preventing the colony from doing good either. They proposed to extend and improve the county and Road Board system. They proposed to delegate the main powers to the counties at present vested in the Governor, and so give them reasonable assistance for opening out their district roads. They did not say their scheme was perfect. They would be glad of anything to make these proposals more perfect when in committee. If the amendment was carried, they could not expect that the Government, not having a majority in the House, would attempt to pass a Redistribution of Representation Bill, nor would they attempt to do bo. Either Mr. Ormond would have to.take their place, and attempt to pass a Redistribution Bill, or else thej must go to the country without. If he was not prepared to take the responsibility of his own act then they would have to go to the country without redistribution, and he was sure that people would resent that procedure. Mr. Ormond had acted wrong in moving this amendment without communicating witli the Government. Whatever might be the result of the division,., he, and his colleagues on these benches, could look back to their two years administration of the government with feelings of satisfaction, and with the warmest gratitude for the generous support given by their party. Many members had been good enough to give them credit for what they had achieved, but it was the ■hearty support of their party, which had enabled them to attain whatever good result might have attended their administration.

Sir Gv Grey said here was a Government deserving pity. They had lived from hand to mouth without any policy, and they were now getting to the end of their tether. They deserved pity and assistance. He denied that he and his friends had attempted to reetore provincialism. They i never thought of any thing so insane. They knew that a nation could not go back. What they proposed was to make a step in advance. His purpose had been grossly misrepresented. Mr. Weston had not read and ; considered his Bill, or else ho was lamentably deficient in law. He did not often ap--1 prove of the conduct of the. Government, but he did approve of their having removed 'a man so ignorant of law as Mr. IVeston from the judicial bench. The Premier also misrepresented him. His comments were mean and p.iltry for the ruler of a country.. He complained that his (Sir George Grey's) Bill made use of the words " presidents " and "by-laws." The idea was' to set up modest and inexpensive institutions, and yet the Premier of the colony niado these trifling phrases subject matter for laughter. They had been told by the Government that they were in. favour of a'county system with : increased powers, and speaker after speaker had said that the •■ system worked well. To that ho answered that the people must work them., .It .was a* system that gave' as : many- as 45 '■'.' votes to one man while others had Voniy ; one 'vote; That was the cause of his hatred of the system. It was-a' sjstem devised by men who desired to save their ill-gotten wealth. He stood there a wronged man. The whole

population stood forth wronged men at the hands of such and unfair an unjust system. Xf men did not feel degraded under such a system then they were unworthy of the name of men.' The Premier had been misleading the House and the country. Each district was capable of exercising all the powers that the House possessed. The Government and their supporters now shook in their shoes. Their time was at hand, and there was still hope for New Zealand. They had allowed circumstances to control and fix their policy, instead of modelling thase circumstances.: Mr. Weston had used most improper language, and grossly misrepresented what he had said. So had the Premier. .What harm was there in suggest-' ing that they should have power to establish their own Courts. Mr. Weston knew well

that there would be no opening under such a system for him. .In Great Britain many places had powera such as he asked for. Many corporations elected their own recorders. Was that House alone able to choose a judge? He would prefer to be tried in one of the Courts he spoke of, rather than in a Court presided over by a judge elected by that House. Mr. Bunny had told them that in giving their vote on this question they had to look to the outside creditor. That was not the case. What they had to do was to look to the inside of the colony. There they sat on the Government benches the representatives of the outside creditor. Let them mow have men seated there who would not repudiate the outside creditor, but who would look inside the colony. The House had been misled about the Representation Bill. He counselled them not to be afraid of the threats - used. They were able to frame a much better Bill than the present Government, and if they were sent to the country without that Bill, then the fault would not be theirs, it would be the fault of those gentlemen who forced it upon them instead of' resigning office. That was the view that would be taken, and he askedi them not to be afraid, as the electors would be sure to ; return them again. He called upon them to dismiss all such fears from their minds and vote for what was undoubtedly the right. Again he told them that it was their duty to turn out men who were governed by circumstances and who could not govern circumstances. There was a hidden mystery about this property tax, which ought to be unearthed. Publicity should -be given to what each person paid under it. He referred to the Bill he had introduced for opening the legal profession. That measure was the joint effort of himself and Mr. Tole. They had been told that this and other Bills were simply due to the fact that this was the last session of Parliament. He admitted such was the case. Under such circumstances he knew he would find members more pliable. That was one of the great advantagesarisingfromtriennialParliaments. He referred eloquently to Sir M. O'fiorke's career to show the incentive offered to merit and ability under free institutions. He begged those who loved their country to follow him into the lobby in order to give New Zoaland free institutions, and deliver it from the restraint M'hich now pressed so heavily upon it.

Mr. Saunders said when he rose on Tuesday night he little thought he was taking part in a movement that would bring about this important crisis to the country. While there wa3 a danger of the two members for the Thames and the member for Port Chalmers getting upon these benches, hn could not support the amendment. Mr. Hursthouse moved the adjournment of the debate.

The House roee at ten minutes to one o'clock.