BROADCASTING CONTROL

Nelson Evening Mail, Volume LXX, 11 June 1936, Page 5

BROADCASTING CONTROL

Resuming the debate on the Broadcasting Bill yesterday afternoon Mr R, A. Wright (Independent, Wellington Suburbs) said newspaper reporters had always treated members fairly and often had knocked their speeches into shape. The Rt. Hon. G. W. Forbes said it was significant there was no expression of opinion from members on the Government side of the House. He said taking over control of wireless was bound to affect its progress and the change would not bring about any greater satisfaction than there had been in the past. Complete control was being given to the Government and when it was learned how the Government intended to use it, it gave cause for apprehension. It was a case of the new broom sweeping clean and some useful furniture might be swept away in the process.

OPPOSITION COMPLAINT Regarding treatment by the newspapers, Mr Forbes said the Opposition’s remarks were published in tabloid form, but everything the Prime Minister said was published in full. If the Prime Minister was not given a fair run, what would he want from broadcasting. The past Government had tried to establish a service that was free and unfettered, leaving the Minister power of veto and it had worked well. He thought commercial advertising over the air was a retrograde step, and he said that power had been taken entirely as a weapon against the newspapers. He objected to the State going into the market to sell advertising over the air and said it was opening up a new avenue. It would mean additional cost to the people as one advertiser would be forced to take advantage of wireless if his competitor did. He felt the Labour Party, on getting into office, had lowered their standard, and the fact that they were going to have advertising over the air was a great fall from the standard set by the Labour Party.

MINISTER’S CONTROL Mr F. W. Schramm (Government Auckland East) said Mr Forbes had said the Bill established tyranny and he asked the House to compare it With some of the measures passed by the previous Government. He instanced the threat of dismissal of civil servants if they criticised the then Government. He agreed that a Minister should have control and the talk of political control was only a bogey. After all, all control was political. The party in power appointed the persons to the positions they occupied. He thought the establishment of C stations and giving them advertising was very necessary. He also agreed with subsidising B Stations. “COULD NOT LEAD TO FAIRNESS” Mr S. G. Smith (Nationalist, New Plymouth) contended that political control could not possibly lead to fairness. He thought New Zealand should follow the British system, which had met with approval of the people. The Government was changing the system without consulting listeners and many of the listeners who were opposed to the Government, would be used to spread Government propaganda, and the House was told that was fair and just. A Bill, which seemed a simple one, was setting up a dictatorship in the hands of the Government and he thought the Prime Minister would, in time, regret it. Broadcasting should be used in the national interest and as a national service, but in future it would be used to bolster up the Government. The Minister v/as just taking power to set up an advisory council. He might not. set one up, but if he did establish a council, the Minister need not consult it. The Broadcasting Board had improved the position in New Zealand and had done extremely good work, yet it was to be abolished. He had alw'ays thought B Stations should be encouraged, and he congratulated the Minister on the provision to help them.

MINISTER IN REPLY < t The Hon. F. Jones (Postmaster- t General), in reply, said the Opposi- c tion to the measure came under four t heads, abolition of the Broadcasting i Board, granting of subsidies to B : stations, use of license fees, and com- £ mercial stations. The Board had re- t fused to allow controversial subjects 1 to be discussed over the air, despite past Ministers’ permission. He claimed that Ministerial control was a step 1 forward and he said Ministerial con- 1 trol had existed under the last Gov- ■ ernment. Regarding Mr Coates’ statement that the Government bad an agreement with B Stations, Mr Jones said that all the time he was in the House, the question of support for B Stations was reocatedly raised. He mentioned stations that had been bought out by the past Government and other B Station proprietors were concerned lest they would be forced off the air. At the present time, license fees were being used to subsidise stations. The Government spent more than £20,000 on advertising. Why should some of that not be used in advertising over the air. It seemed the only fear of members was that advertising would be lost to newspapers. He said Mr Coates’ statement that the newspapers supported the Governmnet was laughable, and lie said that if the day came when newspapers did come over to the Government’s side, the Government would have to look at itself to see what was wrong. The Government did not believe in dictatorships, nor did it agree with what was taking place in Germany, but references had been made to what was being done in that country regarding the manufacture of cheap sets. Parliamentary broadcasts had assisted to popularise broadcasting, and he predicted that

MEASURE PASSED BY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES VARIOUS AMENDMENTS DEFEATED . a APPLICATION OF CLOSURE (By Telegraph—Press Association.) WELLINGTON, This Day. . The House of Representatives sat until 2.10 o’clock this morning and carried the third reading of the Broadcasting Bill.

IN COMMITTEE ON THE BILL : : The House went into committee to consider the Bill. Speaking on the short title, the Hon. A. Hamilton (Nationalist, Wallace) said most of the B Stations bought out by the last Government were poor, insignificant stations, except two. Mr W. J. Broadfoot (Nationalist, Waitomo) asked what stations were to be subsidised? There were 21 of them, and the House was entitled to that information. What kind of information was to be permitted, - and what were the rates to be? Mr Wright sought information as to what was to be broadcast in the way of political matter. The Prime Minister had said that Government speakers would say something that would help the country along. What did he mean by that. Mr Savage: “I can tell you in a minute. Nothing is reported from this side of the House because we want the legislation to go through, but it is reasonable to think something is being done to support our legislation, but that seldom appears in the newspapers.” Mr W. P. Endean (Nationalist, Parnell) said no one would say the Board would not produce a better programme than a Minister and advisory council. The principle covering the judiciary was that it should be free from political control, and the same principle should apply to broadcasting. NEWSPAPERS AND BROADCASTING The Rev. Clyde Carr asked if some arrangement were not entered into between the newspapers and the broadcasting authorities, that the newspapers would not use news picked by shortwave from Continental and American stations, if the broadcasting authorities did not advertise. He realised there was nothing on the ■ Department's files regarding the arrangement,

DIVISION LIST The second reading division list v/as as follows: — For the Bill (49): Anderton, Atmore, Barclay, Barnes, Barrell, C. H. Burnett, Campbell, Carr, Chapman, Christie, Coleman, Cotterill, Cullen, Denham, Fraser, Herring, Hodgens, Howard, Hunter, Jones, Jordan, Langstone, Lee, Lowry, Lyon, McDougall, McMillan, Mason, Meachen, Moncur, Munro, Nash,. Neilsen, Nordmeyer, O’Brien, Parry, Petrie, Ratana, Richards, Roberts, Robertson, Savage, Schramm, Semple, Sexton, Sullivan, Thorn, Webb, Wilson. Against the Bill (19): Bodkin, Broadfoot, T. D. Burnett, Coates, Cobbe, Dickie, Endean, Forbes, Hamilton, Hargest, Holland, Holyoake, Kyle, Poison, Ransom, Roy Smith, Wilkinson, Wright. Pairs for the Bill: Coulter. McCombs: against the Bill, Ngata, Henare. “ON BUSINESS LINES”

the number of licenses would show an increase during the present year. RENTS FOR PREMISES Regarding the rents that were paid for premises, Mr Jones said in Wellington, in all for three buildings, £1973 a year was paid. He did not say there was anything wrong in that. It might be necessary. In Christchurch, £BSO was paid. The Rev. Clyde Carr (Government, Timaru): “Too much.” Mr Jones: “I do not know. I am not a judge of that. In Dunedin a portion of the “Evening Star” building was used, the amount paid being £670.” Mr W. T. Anderton (Government, Eden): “Scandalous.” The second reading was challenged but was passed at 4.20 by 49 votes to 19.

WELLINGTON, This Day. The House of Representatives resumed at 7.30 last evening. The Hon. F. Jones said there would < be a Department of Broadcasting “ under control of the Minister who i could delegate some of his powers to , the Director-General who would see , that the Government’s policy was | carried out. He assured the House , that nothing would be put over the .t air from the Government commercial | station that was not decent. The i station would be run on business lines. ! ; No advertising rates had yet been determined and would not be fixed till | the station was established. Mr H. .S. S. Kyle (Nationalist, Riccarton) said the Broadcasting Board was being wiped out but an advisory council would be established in its place. What was the difference? Mr K. J. Holyoake (Nationalist. Motueka) asked on what basis B Stations were to be subsidised. Would they be subsidised? Mr Jones said a survey would be i made.. THE CLOSURE The Prime Minister, the Rt. Hon. M. J. Savage moved the closure at 8.10 and this was carried after a division by 43 to 15. The short title was then passed by 43 votes to 16. Replying to further questions, Mr Jones said it was not intended by the Government to appoint a direct listeners’ representative on the advisory ; | council. The Government contended that , Members of Parliament would be i able to represent listeners very well. . The Minister might suggest to the > council that it should go into the . question of staffing or into new buildings, but, in the main, its work would be"to deal with programmes. ' DUTIES OF MINISTER ’ Dealing with the duties of the , Minister, Mr Jones said he visualised I when the Postmaster-General would

still carry on the work of supervising the technical side of broadcasting and the new Minister of Broadcasting would look after the cultural side. If at any time the Government was of the opinion a senior Minister or r_ Minister better qualified should fill the important position of broadcasting, it would be easy to make the appointment. All that had been done was to provide for the position. Mr Jones thought they would be able to secure a man with the necessary qualifications for Director in New Zealand. The Government visualised the time when they would have one Minister supervising the technical side and another administering the cultural side. Mr R. A. Wright (Independent, Wellington Suburbs) said he was sure there would be a great deal of dissatisfaction among listeners when they learned that a listeners’ representative was not to be appointed to represent them. PEOPLE TO ADVISE MINISTER

The Prime Minister said it was not 1 a question of appointing a board. It ] was appointing people to advise the j Minister. Members of the Council would be appointed because of what 1 they knew of broadcasting, not be- j cause they happened to be listeners, ■ nor because they happened to be t organisers of the Reform Party or of > the Labour Party, or of any other J party. The Government’s job would ( be to get hold of those men or women j and appoint them as advisers to the ( Minister or his subordinates. He had < told the people all over the country ; that as long as there was a Board, lis- ; tenors were entitled to be represented ( on it. but when this Bill was passed, i the Bcarcl would be past and an ad- !, viscry council would be substituted, j The council would be composed of ( persons to advise, not because they ;, were listeners but because of their j , knowledge, and the Government’s job , would be to get people with that knowledge. j “PEOPLE WHO PAID THE PRICE’’ i! Mr W. J. Broadfoot (Nationalist, j Waitomo) said people who paid the 1 price were entitled to construct the ■' tune at which they were to be taxed. VIEWS OF FARMERS j Mr W. J. Poison (Nationalist, Stratford) said farmers had certain views on the question of broadcast- ' ing, and they were of opinion that some representative of v their interests should be on the advisory council. I Mr Poison said the Minister had said one Minister would look after the cultural side. j A voice: “The agricultural side?” ■ Mr Poison: “No, the Minister does 'not know anything about agriculture.” Mr Poison went on to say the side the Minister would look after would bo that of Kultur. ' . .-1 The Hon. W. Nash said there was a tendency to make Parliament a farce. The chairman of Committees: “The bon. Minister must not reflect on the chair.” Mr Nash: “I am not reflecting on the chair.” THE TECHNICAL SIDE Mr Nash went on to say that already there were departments such as the Pensions Department that were • controlled by two Ministers and it * might be the same in regard to broad--1 casting, but there was no reason why one Minister should not carry out ' two functions. The Bill provided for an easy transfer, should the need ! ’ arise. The technical side of broad- - casting was associated with the Post ' and Telegraph Department and the 7 Postmaster-General were in charge of the scientific side. Then there was t the other side, which was totally diff--2 erent. There was a splendid case for listeners being represented on the e advisory council, but there was no e reason why every member of the ad- " visory council should not be a lisd toners’ representative. The council was charged with one thing only, to satisfy the demands of listeners. “NOT A CASE OF VETO” e d Mr Broadfoot: “Will' the Minister d have the veto?”

Mr Nash: “It is not a case of veto. It is a case of the Minister being in charge of the Department. The Minister has the last word. That is all the Bill says.” AMENDMENTS DEFEATED Mr Coates moved an amendment to Clause 3, providing that the Broadcasting Corporation should consist of a Minister and three members elected by listeners and two members appointed by the Governor-General. The Hon. D. Sullivan described the amendment as a political stunt. Listeners would not be decived by tactics of that kind. It was unadulterated humbug and miserable hypocrisy, as when Mr Coates had power to give listeners representation, he refused to do it. The amendment was lost by 43 votes to 18. Opposition members protested against the abolition of the board, but the clause was retained by 43 votes to 18. Mr Poison moved an amendment to the next clause to provide that the , Minister should act only after con- j suiting the advisory council. j The amendment was lost by 43 votes to 17. The clause was challenged, but j it was retained by 43 votes to 18. I , Mr Broadfoot moved an amendment j to Clause 5 dealing with the appointment of a Director of Broadcasting, deleting the provision that the director shall hold office during the pleasure of . the Governor-General-in-Council. As the clause read at present, the Director could be dismissed , at a moment’s notice and he wondered what sort of a man would accept office under such conditions, j The amendment was lost on the • voices. j A division was called for on Clause ■6, dealing with the appointment of ! officers other than directors, but the I clause was retained by 43 votes to 18. | A further amendment that the ad- . visory council should consist of a Mini ister and three members elected by listeners and two others appointed by i the Governor-General-in-Council was ! lost by 47 votes to 18. j Mr Kyle moved an amendment pro- | viding that the advisory council should meet as a council as itself decided not as the Minister decided, but I the amendment was lost on the voices, j An amendment was moved by the i Rt. Hon. G. W. Forbes to Clause 12 to delete the sub-clause providing that moneys derived from operation of commercial stations should be paid into the Broadcasting Account. Mr Poison said the clause was an attack on the newspapers. The amendment was defeated by 48 votes to 18. Coming to Clause 14, Mr Forbes moved an amendment to delete the sub-clause giving the Government power to advertise from commercial stations. After some discussion on ; the lines of earlier remarks, the 1 amendment was defeated by 48 votes to 18 and the clause was retained by ' 48 votes to 18. : COMMITTEE STAGES COMPLETED 1 The committee stages were completed and the Bill was reported to the House without amendment, read a third time and passed. The House rose at 2.10 a.m.