LABOUR LEADS LENGTHY UNEMPLOYMENT DEBATE

Manawatu Times, Volume LIV, Issue 6948, 29 June 1929, Page 9

LABOUR LEADS LENGTHY UNEMPLOYMENT DEBATE

Government Plans Outlined

Early Criticism of Alleged Inefficacy of Measures

Per Press Association. WELLINGTON, Last Night. Sir Joseph Ward, in the House today, made a statement on unemployment. Ho said that in Auckland city there were 1075 and in Wellington city 412 unemployed men. Tho Labour Department was unable to stato the number of men registered as unemployed in tho Kaipara electorate without telegraphing to its representative at Whangarei but in the North Auckland district, there wore 31 married and 10 single men registered as unemployed, or a total of 49. As regarded tho North Auckland district, arrangements were made to provide 500 men with employment on Government relief works and they were being jflaced as rapidly as the woi-k could be laid out and tents erected. In North Auckland, there had bscn a reduction in tho number of men employed by the department and tho Minister of Public Works had approved of 50 men being placed on one road as soon as surveys could be made and tents erected and had also approved of work being laid out on two other works, which would each absorb 70 men, on the understanding that the men were not to be placed on the two latter roads until the department had actually received instructions to plaeo them.

In Wellington there were something like 370 men on city relief works and tlie number would be increased to 450 or 500 ns soon as additional work could be laid out and plans provided. Arrangements had been mado to place 20 single men from Wellington on tho Lako Ferry-Capo Palliser road, and tho district engineer expected to be ablo to talco them next week.

A considerable number of men had been paid off by the department owing to work being completed on tho main highway over the Rimutaka hill and 20 of them were also being placed on the i.akc Ferry-Cape Palliser road. Labour Members Critical. Mr. M. T Savage opened the debate, lie said unemployment appeared to bo becoming more acute as tho went by. Returned soldiers were still asking for work and while ho admitted, a few wero getting it, most were being given charity. They did not want that —they wanted work. Mr. Savage'said inventions in tho past had all tended to decrease employment. Tho invention that was most needed to-day was one that would provido use for the human material available. _ It was to that object that tho brains of the present day should be applied. Ho had heard it said that local bodies were to some extent responsible for unemployment. Were the local bodies responsible, ho asked, for tho stupid policy of bringing into tho country thousands of immigrants, without knowing what to do with them all? It was time the national authority took into hand tho matter of dealing with tho causes of tho situation and unless it did that, tho position would Temain as it was. Unless it could deal with land .settlement and the development of suitable secondary industries, how could it l'aco unemployment? Could local, bodies be saddled with responsibility in this quarter? Auckland to-day was in a worse position than any other. centre and that was not minimising in any way tho seriousness of tho position in other places. Tho Reform administration had failed to produeo resnlts and ho trusted the United party would not wind up in tho samo'way. Mr. P. Fraser said unemployment in Wellington and district was acute. Tho Labour bureau’s figures could not bo taken as authentic, as experience had shown that they did not cover one-half of the actual total. Ho had never known tho position to be more serious than at tho present time. While men were being engaged in relief work, tho Highways board and Public Works department, to a lesser extent, had been dispensing with men. Proof was coming in from all parts of tho Dominion that tho Public Works department was paying miserable wages in some instances. This was not in accordance with the Primo Minister’s announcement. While he believed that Sir Joseph Ward honestly intended that such should bo tho case, it appeared that tho department was letting him down. Ho was not attacking the government but was taking tho first opportunity of drawing its attention to the subject, so that it could adjust the matter. He also complained of men being taken off standard works and placed on relief works. He did not believe the United party wished this to be done and he lioped it would investigate tho matter. Ho said thoro was a general impression among working people that tho Public AVorks department was in the worst hands in which it had ever been. Ho claimed it lacked foresight and when an emergency arose, it could not rise to tho occasion. The result was that it was dispensing with men while tho Prime Minister was struggling to employ men in other quarters. Mr. H. T. Armstrong also spoke on uuemployment. He said more wealth was being produced in New Zealand each year, yet it was not being distributed fairly among tho workers, whose services, applied to raw material, had produced it. Mr. J. \V. Munro said when the present government came into power,; there was a general expectation that new methods of handling the unemployed problem would be brought into operation but ho was sorry to say that ex actly the same thing wa3 going on under the United party’s administration as had gone on under Reform. As a friend of the United party, he warned it that it was on its trial. Rev. C. Carr said more human labour ssas b.ei!*£•--• irtspktc-ed- and he hoped a'

board would bo set up to deal with the iWhole question of unemployment. He suggested shorter hours, with no docrease in tho minimum wage, as the remedy. Tho debate was proceeding when the House adjourned at 5.30. Mr. \V. E. Barnard, in continuing tho debate on tho Imprest Supply Bill when tho House of Representatives resumed at 7.30, said ho made no apology for joining with his colleagues in referring to unemployment. He said if the government could formulate an effcctivo method of dealing with tho problem, it could rely on Labour’s heartiest support. He would like to know if the government recognised the principle that a man was entitled to the right to work and if that were not possible, he was entitled to look to tho community for support of himself and his dependents. Mr. H. E. Howard (Buller) said ho, could understand the silenco on tho part of tho Reform party in relation to the government’s failure to live up to its election promises concerning unemployment, becauso that party itself had failed for 16 years in the same respect. He considered a Minister should have replied this afternoon to the remarks of Mr. Savage, who as deputy leader of tho Labour party, was entitled to such a courtesy. He felt.the country would demand such a statement from the government benches. Hon. E. A. Ransom said members of the Labour party had mado reference to tho Public AVorks department. Ho had meant no discourtesy in not replying earlier hut had considered it best to allow all the speakers to state their ease and then to reply to all. If nothing more serious could be stated than that unemployment in Auckland wa3 worse in tho middle of this winter than it was in tho middlo of last summer, then the government had not a very serious charge to answer. He contend-, cd that unemployment generally throughout the country was in an im*' proved position. Ho had taken the stand that when men had been employed on one job for a considerable period at a standard wage, they were not again transferred on that work being completed to, a fresh job, when there were other men who had not had any work at all. Ho considered everyone should bo given a share. , . . In replying to Mr. Savage, he said only one per cent of the population of Auckland was without work. That' could not bo considered such a serious state of affairs as had been stated and whpn it was recalled they _ had said Auckland was in a worso position than other cities, it indicated tho position was not as critical as it might bo. In replying to Mr. Fraser, ho said if men were too indifferent to Tcgistor themselves as unemployed, they were not entitled to be considered worthy of relief work. It was their own responsibility if they overlooked it. The statement that the Highways board and Public Works department was putting men off work was to a certain _degree correct in the case of the Highways board, which, when it had completed certain commitments for ; which funds had been allocated, had to' dispose of tho men, as it had not the funds to re-employ them. This was not truo of the Public AVorks depart? meut, which was now employing more men than when the government took office. He also denied any attempt was being made to lower the standard wage. In replying to Mr. Fraser’s allega. tions that dissatisfaction was never more prevalent in Public Works camps than at tho present time, Mr. Ransom stated that he had visited many camps and had found no sign of general dissatisfaction. Ho was convinced the men wero satisfied and’were working in harmony. He assorted there had been no attempt whatever to transfer men from public works to relief works.

Mr. Coates Takes Part. Mr. Coates said it was important, when tho government was spending borrowed money on the development or chc country,.that it should got tho best return possible from that money. He alleged that Public Works ofrtho country were being converted into relict works and .thereby, tho country was, losing the services of trained men. Mr. Coates quoted instances in which gangs of men in his district had, under Public Works agreement, undertaken piece work and,had been able to make only 6s to 8s a day. „ , . These wero well qualified men who were recognised as good workmen and they stated they had objected at the time to the price at which the contract was undertaken. AVorse than that, some of them had since heqn dismissed. That might not bo quite the right term. What actually had happened waa that their contract had expired and the government ,according to its policy, had thought fit to employ fresh men. He did not consider this a sound economic policy. Mr. Coates added he considered tho government had made a mistake when it had failed to pursue* the Industrial conference. It was still necessary to seek for the causes of unemployment and ho felt thoro was a call for another industrial conference for that purpose. In conclusion, Mt. Coates stated that the Minister of Railways was not keeping up to the. standard set by his predecessors. Trains wero running late nowadays and if, for over two years,-trains had been able to keep to their time-tables, why had that not been possible in the last six months? He agreed that safety was the first consideration but he did not believe that safety bad been .prejudiced when formerly trains ran to time. “Playing With the Subject.” Mr. F. Langstone contended that it

was tho object of tlic Government to convert public works into relief works and thus put the men concerned outside the scope of the public works agreement. The Government’s policy in dropping men when they had had a few months’ work and employing others, leaving the former to “live on their surpluses,” was only playing with the subject. He protested against the amount of money going out of the country when, an insufficient amount was being spent on the development of the Dominion.

Mr. R. Semple said it would be a cowardly jiolky for any party to make political capital out of the unfortunate condition of the unemployed people of the country. That was not the< intention of the Labour party. He considered the Minister of Public [Works was not quite aware of what was going on in the department. He reiterated that dissatisfaction did exist. It was a mistaken policy on the part of tho Government to pay wages That would not ensure good men remaining on the jobs. Mr. H. G. E. Mason said when the Minister referred to men not caring to register as unemployed, liu couki not realise the discouraging atmosphere surrounding such a procedure. It was beart-breakiug to learn day after day that there was nothing to do. Ho said no one could dispute the fact that unemployment was worse under the preBent Government than it had been (bad as it was then) under. its predecessors. Profits First Consideration. Mr. C. H. Chapman 'said one of the causes of 'unemployment was the desire of financial people to be sure before investing their capital, that they would obtain largo profits such as they made during the war —profits ■which should not be expected, lie contended also, that workers iu many industries received wages only sufficient to purchase bare necessities consequently there was a demand from them only lor bare necessities, thereby decreasing employment.

Mr, J. McCombs said it was not an adequate excuse for the Government that other countries had their unemployment. This prosperous young country should not bo included in the same category as other less fortunate lauds. He ,criticised the calculation of Mr. Ransom that the unemployed constituted only one per cent, in Auckland, pointing out that the minister compared the number of unemployed male adults with the total population of Auckland in ascertaining his per ccntagc. The Minister had compared winter unemployment with summer unemployment. The speaker quoted figures which, he said, showed that unemployment was increasing compared with previous winters. The situation was by no means as negligible as the Minister had suggested. The debate on the first reading ended at 10.30 p.m. The Bill was then passed through subsequent stages without further discussion till the third reading when Sir Joseph Ward outlined the Government’s efforts in the -direction of finding relief works. In referring to the termination of the employment of men who had been engaged on work for the Highways board when the money appropriated for-the task on which they were employed had been spent, he said Should the Government wish to do otherwise, such a step would be a new departure and would require new legislation. He had promised to give the cities money to carry out their programmes of woTk and these amounts had been provided.

' In referring to the complaint that the Industrial conference had not been pursued, he stated that a committee for the very purpose of investigating unemployment had been set up and had 1 held several meetings. . Where Does Government Stand? • The Prime Minister said that if, on : the eve of the starting of Parliament under grave difficulties, criticism on the the Imprest Supply Bill (a Bill ■which called for no such criticism) was to be so widespread, he ■ wanted to know where he stood. The Government was entitled to take credit for the rc-cnergising of industries which had taken place as the result of the allocations mentioned in the Imprest ►Supply Bill and he was surprised that criticism should be forthcoming at such rt stage. He contended that the late Government had brought too many immigrants into tlie country. The present Government had put a stop to that and if cifect were given to the Government's policy of constructing railways, many hundreds more men would be employed before the winter was over. That, however, was not the ultimate siclution. It would be necessary to divide up the land and make it available for people from tho cities to occupy and work, thereby relieving congestion in the towns. Mr. 11. E. Holland said he was surprised to hear the Prime Minister objecting to the subject of unemployment being inentioned in the debate on tho Imprest Supply Bilk Unemployment was a question greater than party and its urgency demanded its discussion. National Emergency. Mr Holland said it had been stated it was impossible to take men from one and put them to another. It had been possible during tho war to take pmn from all classes of life and make them soldiers and if that could be done in the interests of destruction, surely something similar could be done in the interests of construction. The question of finding money on that occasion had never risen—it had simply been produced. If it could be produced for lhat purpose, why could it not now be forthcoming for an object of equally paramount national importance? The Government had risen splendidly to the occasion when the earthquake occurred and it was the Government’s duty to rise to the occasion and conn bat unemployment. This was ono of the richest countries on tlie face of the earth. If disaster came, the people

were capable of rising above it. V hat was required was that whatever party occupied the Treasury benches, it should be worthy of those people anu should be able to face their problems in the same spirit as the public had faced disaster. What Labour wanted to see was a determined effort to ensure that every man who was willing to work should be provided with employment. The work of reconstruction following the earthquake would involve an expenditure of a &um of £1,000,000 (he was not sure that even that was a conservative estimate). That work would provide a vast field for absorbing unemployment and lie appealed for standard wages for men engaged in such work. It would not be a sound economic move to endeavour to do otherwise.

Hon. T. M. Wilford asked had anything been gained by all this day’s discussion? No party in the House had a patent to well-wishing lor those out of work. All that had been said to-day could have been said more effectively when proposals dealing with unemployment had been brought before the House as outlined in the Governor-General’s speech. Mr A. Harris, replying to a statement that the Kef own government’s introduction of immigrants was responsible for unemployment, said in man power the Dominion had lost 34,000 in the war. Immigration had been responsible for the influx of only 31,000 men and the Dominion had not yet reached the manpower it had in 1914. Could any member say this country had not 'resources to give employment to the manpower it had before the war? The cause was not immigration, it was the war. Older Than Reform.

Mr D. G. Sullivan said there had already been an unemployment problem in the country before the Keform Government. began to bring immigrants here. It was absurd for Mr Harris to think it possible, at this late stage, to rescue liis party from the blame it deserved for unemployment. In referring to Sir Joseph "Ward’s statement that a £35,000 subsidy had been granted each of the cities, Mr Sullivan said that to qualify to use that amount, city councils had to expend approximately £75,000 of their own money in wages, materials, etc., and to raise that amount presented serious difficulties. The Prime Minister could assist more by making his subsidy a £1 for £T r, ue on actual material used and by removing some of the hampering restrictions. Mr. P. Eraser said he was surprised at the attitude adopted by Mr. "VVijlford in asking if any good could come from the day’s discussion. Ho hoped to and if it did not, Mr. Wilford’s party was hopeless. The matter was one of tragic importance and it was imperative that no more men should be put off work. What was wanted more than anything else was a new spirit in the Public. Works Department. He demanded that the department’s engineers should be instructed that the old policy of starvation wages must be stopped. Mr. D. Jones said he took exception to the Prime Minister’s statement that members had no right to criticise questions of policy in the course of the present debate. That right had prevailed for years and Sir Joseph himself had, at other times, availed himself of it. Mr. E. Howard said unemployment had prevailed before the war. The position of the workers to-day had been brought about by the policy of the'Keform Party. , Hon. H. Atniorc said the difficult position facing the Prime Minister today had been brought about by the Reform Party. The people of New Zealand had created a healthy financial statement, yet the Keform Government’s activities had resulted in a deficit of £600,000. (Left Sitting.)