PROPOSED LEGISLATION ON MENTAL DEFECTIVES DEBATED IN THE HOUSE

Manawatu Times, Volume LIII, Issue 6667, 21 July 1928, Page 7

PROPOSED LEGISLATION ON MENTAL DEFECTIVES DEBATED IN THE HOUSE

More Explicit Terminology Essential Face to Face With Real Problem The main subject on which the House of Representatives devoted its attention yesterday was the proposed legislation dealing with mental defectives, as the term Is specially defined in the Bill introduced and explained by the Minister of Health, the Honorable J. A. Young, on Thursday. Speakers for the most part were in favour of legislation that would prevent the propagation of the unfit, but they feared a hasty or ill-con-sidered measure. Who were the socially affected and who were not, was a grave question to answer. Most speakers commented on the need for more definiteness of terminology in such a radical Bill, which was calculated to bring New Zealand into the front ranks of countries having advanced social legislation. The debate was adjourned in the evening owing to the departure of the Minister for the North, and the House went into Committee on the Orchards and Garden Diseases’ Bill. The measure was reported, read a third time, and passed. ... '• Y Tho Surveyors’ Institute Amendment Bill, the Surveyors’ Registration Bill, the Changes Restriction Bill, and Magistrates’ Court Bill were then dealt with at various stages, and the Hous& rose at 9.45 p.m. till 2.30 p.m. on Tuesday.

HOUSE DEBATES MENTAL DEFECTIVES’ LEGISLATION. ; ’ Per Press Association. WELLINGTON, Last Night, i - The House of Representatives met at 3.30 p.m. to-day. - , > <; Mr. R. P. Hudson (Motueka) asked the Minister of Education, if his attention had been drawn to statements made by the Bishop of Nelson in referring to evidence given last session before the Education Committee of the House in regard to the Religious Exerciscs-in-Schools’ Bill,that members of the Committee had made up 'their minds on the subject before they heard evidence and that Ihe report of the Committee was brought up in the absence of three of the members, and if ho considered that there was justification for the deductions arrived at by His Lordship. *, ( The Minister of Education, the Hon, E. A. Wright, replied that his attention had been drawn to the statement referred to) ; ■ A Breach of Privilege? Mr. Speaker: “It appears to mo that this is a matter bordering on breach of privilege. It is father a serious thing' for anyone to allege that the minds of members were made up before hearing evidence,” ' f ,

1 Mr. Wright said the statement was correct in that nearly all members were pledged at tho last election. Mr. Hudson: “It might be correct.” The Minister agreed, and said that so far as those who supported tne views of the Bishop of Nelson on the question were concerned, it would be correct to'say that members’.minds were made, up. They wore pledged. But so far as the Education Committee was concerned ■he was quite satisfied that the members gave very careful and painstaking consideration to the evidence to see if there was anything in it which would cause them to. alter; their opinions. ' > The report had been drawn up in the absence of three of the members—-two noes and one aye. So far as he was able to judge the absence of these members made no difference. Ho felt suyo that if any of the absent members had asked for a delay tho chairman of the Committee would have invited the Committee „to hold over its report. . ’ * Ho was afraid the Bishop hid quite unconsciously drawn a wrong deduction from something which had appeared in the papers . “Splendid State Enterprise.”

On the motion of the’ Horn-W. Nosworthy, Minister in Change of the State Fire Insurance Department) the State Fire Insurance Amendment Bill was introduced and read a first time.

Mr. J. A. Lee (Auckland East) said 'he hoped the Minister would give the House an assurance that the measure would make this splendid institution increasingly popular in its competition with other fire insurance offices. It was a splendid State enterprise, but it was a curious thing that the Liberal Party which established it were now the party most determinedly opposed to similar State enterprises. Since it had been operating it had' saved tho people of New Zealand upwards of £4,000,000, besides rendering other services to the Government. Yet in face of this glorious enterprise we hear the parrot-cry, “Where are wo’to get money from” to establish similar. State enterprises. He trusted that the Bill now introduced was intended further to increase tho efficiency of this desirable institution. Mr. G. W. Forbes, Leader of tho National Party, said tho State Fire Department was lagging behind other offices. Lower quotations could bo got in Now Zealand cheaper than the State Office would give. Co-operative insurance was gaining a great' footing among farmers, and one other big combination was able to give much lower rates. These were new features since the State, Fire Office started, but thej, now had to be met, and he noped tho Minister would show ho was in charge of a Jive department. ( Mental Defectives’ Debate. The debate on the Mental Defectives' Amendment Bill was resumed hy Mr. P, Fraser (Wellington Central) who said that he entirely approved of tho purpose. behind the Bill, because whatever wo might desire we were face to Laos with a real problem in mental defectives . t

He further expressed the highest ap. provol of tho management of tho Department which had control of thi* question. Never did it stand in higher estimation of tho public than at thi present moment. The recent report by Dr. Gray, head of the Department, was a valuable and informative document. In that report he pointed out there was ho royiU roao to settlement of this problem; but that each country must find out us,own best solution, ' Proceeding, he stressed the danger of a House composed of laymen attempting to solve a problem which wa»‘ purely a scientific one. Ho therefore declared that no measure of this kind should be passed unless it was,based on ascertained and proved facts. . . When dealing with inanimate material they couiu take greater liberties but when dealing with the most-vim part of human life, as the Bill difi in its concluding clauses, then they should - bo guided. by tho greatest cafe and caution. '

The clauses dealing with tho reorganisation of tho Department would have h|s. approval and support. ' ; V; Definition' too«Vagtt*.-^:-

-He would like the Minister.to givo-a clearer definition of the terra, '/men* tally defective perSon.V'lt mighty be; that one class of people .cpidd'jsay that other classes who did not 7 agrce : with their manner ' of conducting, thought; were socially defective. .*£!or^n£an^ : in; Englandj they might hold that COm' munists and Socialists - efective.-' . Then again’grcat caro should bookercised in the transfer of Borstal patient* to mental hospitals, and in the/transfor of those under the control of the Child Welfare branch of the Education. Department'. ■■ . : ' V’ ■ He supported the clause providing for the setting up of a special board to have supervision over certain classes of mentally defective persons. But he was strongly df opinion that the personnel of the board should be most carefully selected, Nothing should be left to chance. Only the most qualified person/! should bo appointed. • , Most Dangerous Power. " ! Tho clause giving the Uoiirdf power to compile a register of Pertain classes of mentally defcctivo persons was p most dangerous oho. Who was to determine ■ whether a ichild was mentally defective or not? He urged the withdrawal of that clause. f

He pointed out that sometimes children of poor parentage suffered from ■retarded mental development. -> 'f Proceeding, ho questioned me power of any department to aeime social defectives, and in support of his argument, quoted largely from experiment* intp the laws of heredity and-trans-

mission of qualities. He asked the Minister to say what he ‘or his Department knew of the laws which governed thesb phrases of human life. . Ho was not in a dogmatic frame of mind. Ho was sceptical, and ha asked the Minister to prove that the theories advanced in the Bill were correct and sound. Until then he would not support the mild , Mr. Fraser Supported. Mr. J. Mason (Napier) said he was

warmly in favour of legislation which , would prevent the propagation of the unfit. But at the same time they did not wont hasty and ill-considered legislation. . : ' ' > V " Ho approved of the tone of the last speaker's criticism, which was calculated to raise the tone of debate and provide a useful suggestion. We were spending large sums on the maintenance of the unfiit and it behoved us to spare no effort to check the growth of what otherwise will become an increasing evil gravely affecting the conditions of labour and the cost of living. Ho thought that in some cases sterilisation could bo carried out with advantage to the State. Radical Proposals, Mr. G. W. Forbes commented on the improved methods in tho treatment and control of mental defectives. But wo must not rest on our oars. The Bai contained many radical proposals which required close examination. • The present Minister and Department might be keen on the efficient administration .of the Bill, but there might come a' time when supervision would become slack, and when it was left to officials there was a danger.