MR VICTOR GRAYSON.

Lyttelton Times, Volume CXVII, Issue 17290, 4 October 1916, Page 4

MR VICTOR GRAYSON.

PROMINENT ENGLISH SOCIALIST INTERVIEWED. A TALK ON MANY THINGS Mr Victor Grayson, who occupies a prominent position in tho ranks of English Socialists, and who sat in the House of Commons as M.F. for Colne Valley from lf)07 to 1910. is a visitor to Christchurch at present, accompanying his wife, who is a member of the Allan Wilkie Shakespearean Company. A "Lyttelton Times" reporter yesterday had the pleasure of an hour's chat with Mr Grayson, and in tho coui.se of the interview a very wide range o' {subjects was touched upon.

NEW ZEALAND TOO COMPLACENT.

Naturally, the first question put to Mr Grayson was in regard to his estimate cf New Zealand. Mr Grayson is a journalist and a student of economics, and he lias in viow, according to current report, a book on Australasia. Ho was uot to bo 'drawn very far on the subject of New Zealand's virtues and shortcomings. Ho was charmed, he said, with the appearance of the country, and ho believed that New Zealand possessed a fuller measure of democratic institutions than most ether countries. Tho principal fault of tho inhabitants was their complacency, end ho intended to do his best to riffle that complacency during his sojourn in this land.

MAY RESIDE IN CHRISTCHUUCH.

• Ho had come to Australasia in search of health, with a view to settling down somewhere in the colonies, and he had seen no place which appeals to him more than Christchurch as a prospective place of residence. His plans were not matured yet, an 3 ho hod undertaken to tour the whole Dominion, but it was probable he would eren<tally make his home somewhere . near Christchurch.

| SOCIALISM AND THE WAR. Tho conversation then drifted inevitably to tho war, and to its probable effects upon, existing social institutions. Mr Grayson has seen something of the lighting, as a war correspondent in France in tho early days of the German offensive, and he is emphatic that the war will have social and political results perhaps undreamed of by those who are at nresont guiding the prosecution of hostilities. Something in the nature of a social revolution must inevitably follow upon the heels of the war. Tho British nation had found it, necessary to place under national control the'supply of provisions and munitions for the men who j were fighting at the front, and national control was proving efficient and economical. After tho war the people would never consent to n reversion to the old methods tinder which tho rnurtii ticnVsupply was in the hands of profitseeking contractors, and tho principle cf tho wisdom and practicability of] placing under popular control the supply of vitally accessary commodities, once accepted, might be expected to develop and expand. THE NEW SPIRIT. The. most important change which tho war was making in society, however, was a change of spirit. Wageearners and capitalists were fighting sido by side in the ranks, and the capitalist was acquiring tho habit of regarding the wage-earners in a very different light from that in which he saw them in the days before the war. War had brought the socially antagonistic classes into closet relations, and 'tho result of this closer knowledge and understanding could not but be beneficial to humanity. So far as the wageearners who had seen service were concerned, they would return to their native cities, towns and villages with a determination never again to submit to tho old conditions. They would have acquired a now perspective: attained a new idea of the value of human life. The men who had stood knee-deep in the blood-broth of the trenches; who had marched in the ranks of a disciplined army, would not be scared by a few constables with batons like tho mobs of old. Tho workers had learned to fight and they had learned to wait. In the next big strike, after the war, they would not wait for arbitration boards to decide how much or how little of their demands should be granted, but they would formulate sweeping and revolutionary proposals and compel adoption. They would not be afraid to fight. They would be looking for figbk DEPRESSION PREDICTED. The time after the war would be full of terrible possibilities- There would be a period of deep depression, and distress would be acute amongst a c'ass of men who would no longer accept poverty and deprivation as their foreordained 'lot. Tho big capitalists discerned the problems that were looming, and were making their preparations, but it was unlikely that any preparations that were feasible could stavo off the upheaval that was coming. 'A RIDICULOUS LAW." »■ Tho conversation turned to arbitration laws, and Mr Grayson was informed that trade unions registered under the Conciliation and Arbitration Act could not legally go on strike in Now Zealand. Mr Grayson said the provision was a ridiculous one. Arbi-: tration schemes were merely palliatives, and the arbitration palliative had tho disadvantage that it established the status of the wage-earners as a soparato and subordinate class. The people who submitted to a, law which mado it a penal offenco to knock off working for a given employer would one of theso days wake up and realise that a law had no sanction save the sanction of the majority, and they would alter the law. Ho had been told that it was estimated that 7o per cent of the New Zealand voters, at the conclusion of the war, would be either returned soldiers, or the parents or dependents of men who had seen service. These people would bo in ?i mood for drastic changes in social conditions, and they would not bo frightened to make those changes. NOT AN ANTI-MILITARIST.

Mr Grayson's attitude to the present war is that it must be fought until Germany is defeated, in the interests of civilisation and humanity. He is not an anti-militarist, a fact which puzzles some of tho Socialists in these antipodean islands. Ho confesses that he has never been able to understand the anti-militarist framo of mind. He believes in the brotherhood of man, as a good Socialist, but, to put it in his owu words: "If a man proposes to come in here and give my wife a black eye, although I love him as a bjpther, I tliink I ought to bo say to him, ' Brother, if you persist in coming in hero to create a disturbance I shall sharpen my chopper and do my best to prevent yon' " Ho is not in favour of conscription, but believes in the formation of an efficient citizen army, after tho Swiss style, under which every citizen would bo armed and trained to defend his country if need be. "Even as a child," ho told the interviewer, "I wondered that a nation such as Britain should depend for its land defences upon a Jittlo standing army of 360,000 mon." CAPITALISM AND WARS.

Under present conditions the provision of means of defence was a stern necessity, but that did rot niter the fact that tho capitalistic system was primarily responsible for war. "Capitalistic commercialism meant a constant seeking for now markets, colonisation and Imperialism," said Mr Grayson, " and Imperialism nivarj*Wy uxeaiut

war, because you cannot expand into an empire without war unless the peoplo ousted by your expansion go out meekly and without showing fight. Even littlo New Zealand had not been added to tho Empire without a war with tho original Maori possessors of tho territory."

BRITAIN HARD TO CONVINCE. War would continue until such time at the great masses of the peoplo were sufficiently intelligent to refuse to allow war; when tho peoplo of any nation which meditated armed aggression against a neighbour would tell tho diplomats plainly that they would not bo drnwu into it, and that if the diplomats wanted a, wai they could go and do tho fighting for themselves. Tho feeling of repugnance against war had manifested itself strongly in Britain at tho time of the declaration of war against Germany in August, 1914. Thero was a deep undercurrent of feeling against British intervention, and it was not until there had been conferences between tho Ministry and the members of all political parties, including the Labour Party, that tho country could ho convinced of the necessity for intervention. If the conviction had dawned tardily, Britain had mado up for that sinco by the whole-hearted manner in which she had flung the woight of her tremendous resources into tho conflict. DIPLOMATIC SECRECY.

The question of diplomatic secrecy was then touched upon. Mr Grayson said that he believed that ono of the outcomes of the present war would be that people would demand to know more about their country's relation? with foreign Powers. It was not enough to have his Majesty formally declare, in his Speech from the Throne, that his relations with certain Powers remained of the friendliest, character. Mombcrs of Parliament, on such occasions, were completely in tlio dark regarding the trend of such relationships, although the. Secretary of State for Foreign Affairs, who knew all about them, was sitting in the same apartment. Full and frank avowals of foreign policy could not bo expected until such timo as the relationships between nations were so friendly and honourable that no necessity for concealment existed, but the people would demand fuller knowledge in the future than had heon vouchsafed to them in tho past. LEGISLATIVE DIGNITY.

As an ex-member of the House of Commons, Mr Grayson has taken a keep interest in the proceedings of various Australian .State Parliaments during his tour through Australia, and be was surprised at tlio lack of dignity which characterised those proceedings, especially in the New South Wales Parliament. Ho said that in'tlio House of Commons it was etiquette, if one happened to walk in front of a speaker addressing the House, to bow as ono passed. In the New South Wales Assembly that graceful little custom had not arrived, but ho had heard a member, walking past a speaker, shoot at him the remark, "You're talking rot!" and pass on, whilo the Speaker drowsily murmured, ''Order, Order." One of the results of Mr Grayson's own experiences in the House of Cbmons, where he was for a time a great offender against tho rules of the House, was that he became convinced that obedience to the Standing Orders and to the rulings of the Speaker made for the efficient dispatch of business, and contained much sound wisdom. A GREAT SPEAKER.

Ho had the greatest of admiration and respect for the present Speaker of tho House, of Commons (Mr Lowther). He was told that in colonial legislatures Speakers allowed a considerable latitude to Ministers of tho Crown, and tho leader of tho Opposition. Mr Lowther was, if anything, more attentive to the order of such potentates than to that of ordinary members. Mr Asquith, Mr Lloyd George and Mr Winston Churchill were continually being " pulled up." and even Mr Balfour on occasion was reproved. Mr Balfour would carry tho matter off with airy grace and an apology so swift that he suffered hardly any interruption, but tJie. others would colour up, get angry, and show a disposition to talk back. Should he remain in New Zealand, according to his present intention, Mr Grayson said he would "roll up his sleeves " and get into politics.'