MR HAVELOCK WILSON.

Lyttelton Times, Volume CXXIII, Issue 15921, 6 May 1912, Page 5

MR HAVELOCK WILSON.

AN INTERESTING INTERVIEW

Mr Havelock Wilson, general president 01 1 the National British Seamen's and Firemen's Union, who ia on a tour of Now Zealand and Australia, arrived from Wellington by the Maori on Saturday morning, and left, by the] second express for the south on his way to Melbourne. Ho will return later to Wellington via Sydney. Mr Havelock Wilson belongs to tho maritime profession. He first went to sea in sailing ships about 1874 to 18(0. For over two years he was engaged in coastal trade near Sydney. In the work of organising Labour lie has a long record, and during bis career hasj taken a prominent part in the interests; of Labour in almost every city of Europe,; more especially in connection with transport work. On occasions be has been expelled from cities because many believed bo was a dangerous man when preaching in the interests of trades unionism. He is a unionist, and | believes that by effective combination i alone the workman can expect'to get! his fair share of the wealth that be pro- ; duces. He has been a unionist for over thirty-four years, and for twenty-eight years has practically been at the head of his union. Ho has served his term of apprenticeship in Parliament, and could have- been there yet if he chose to stand, but ho retired with the deliberate intention of preparing for the big fight of last year, and he did not think it possible for him to give attention to the struggle and attend to Parliament matters at tho same time. When his health lias been sufficiently restored, and no serious trouble is ahead, ho will again seek to re-enter Parliament. Shortly after his arrival at Lyttelton on Saturday, Mr Havelock Wilson was interviewed.. In the course of an interesting conversation, he stated that the Union, of which he is general president, first came into prominence last year, when it took part in the great upheaval in Great Britain. The Union did not strike because it wanted to; light, but because the employers' organisation refused to meet the men and enter into any agreement with thorn. The strike was undoubtedly one of the biggest that has taken place in the history of Britain for, including dockers, sailors and transport workers, thero were at periods no fewer than 400,000 men involved.

The objects of the Union were, according to Mr Wilson, to obtain recognition of the Union, by which'the men could obtain better regulations and overtime, together with advances in their wages. The result of the strike was undoubtedly a success in every way for tho men compared with former conditions. After taking into consideration the advances given, the result* would work out at about an increase of twenty per cent all round. To givo an idea of tho men's faith in the Union, Mr Wilson stated that since June 14, 1911, tho membership had increased by fully 60 per cent, including transport workers. At the nresent juncture everything was working smoothly and satisfactorily, and ho thought it likely that those conditions would prevail for some time to come, in consequence of tho recognition of the Union. He admitted that a few minor disputes cropped up now and again, but ho looked forward to pence throughout. The membership of tho Union was 150,000, . and in order to show how the companies recognised the body Mr Wilson stated that there were many employers who refused to engage mon unless they. belonged to the Union. By adopting this policy the employors probably thought that they had more control over the men in getting them to fulfil their contracts. ARBITRATION. Questioned in regard to the methods employed in the great strike Mr Wilson stated that although the men had •to fight for-thoir rights the whole thing, practically resolved itsolf into conciliation. Ho was in favour of tho princinle of ■ compulsory arbitration, although for many years he opposed the system when it was mentioned at the trades union annual conference in London—the organised body of workers—but after making a close study of tho Arbitration Act as in vogue in Australia he had been converted to tho principle of compulsory arbitration. He could not vet express an opinion regarding the working of the Act in New Zealand, as he had not' had an opportunity of making a close study of it: but lie was doing what he "could m the time at his disposal. ' FROM A VISITOR'S POINT OF VIEW. <..

Asked in regard to his opinion of New Zealand from a visitor's standpoint,- Mr Wilson stated that he thought it was a most delightful country. He had often heard it described as " God s Own Country," and from what he had seen of the country itself, and the conditions under which tne people lived, ha could say th.-.t the words were well applied. . Speaking of the conditions under which seamen and firemen laboured in New Zealand, Mr Wilson stated that they were equal to any, and, in fact, better than any he know in any other part of the world. This was undoubtr cdlv due to tho good understanding which existed between the employer on the one side and the representatives of the men on the other. . THE TITANIC DISASTER.

Asked for an expression of opinion on the recent Titanic wreck. Mr Wilson remarked that this disaster would most likely bring about a great change in tho passenger carrying trade so far as equipment for life-saving means were concerned. For years he had pointed out in Parliament, as a representative on the Board of Trade Committee, that they were taking too many risks. On many of the ships trading from Britain there had not heen a great deal of care exerekod regarding ships' lifeboats, and I ni many instances the number of boats was totally insufficient. Many of them had not been removed from tho chocks from one year's end to another, and, above all, thero was an inadequate su'pply of able seamen to handle the boats m cases of emergency. The fault, in his opinion, rested entirely with the Board of Trade. Whenever ho had urged proper provision being made for the manning of ships, he was invariably met with most strenuous opposition from the permanent officials of tho Board of Trade, and even in cases whero he got the shipowners to agree with him on the manning of boats, tho Board of Trade officials had presented anything from being done, because they said that the law did not givo them power to impose the conditions which the owners agreed to adopt. Whilst that line of argument was taken up, they were never ready to appeal to Parliament to give them greater powers to enforce better manning. Ho entirely 'disagreed with them when they said that they had not tho power. Tho law gavo them full and ample power, and some Board of Trado officials stated this before the Colonial Conference in London five years ago, when representatives of New Zealand and Australia proposed a uniform scale of manning for ships throughout the British Empire. The Board of Trade officials were most emphatic in stating that there was no necessity for it, as they had those powers already. A record of this could be found in the report of the evidence taken at the Shipping Conference. Asked if lie favoured bringing all countries into lino, Mr Wilson stated that it was absolutely necessary that ■whatever regulations were adopted should he applied to the vessels of all! nations, which arrived at and sailed ! from British ports, and as a matter of fact tho British law already made provision in this respect, but the jellyfish centlenien on tho Board qf .Trade had

always been reluctant to adopt the power they possessed towards foreign sliips when in British ports'. The ' 1 1tanic disaster would certainly tend to bring about an international conference) of maritime nations to consider this important question of the safety of human life at sea. Should such a conference be held, as it ought, to be, New Zealand should insist on independent representation apart from the Imperial Government, or otherwise the interests of the dominion would suffer considerably, as the shipping legislation of New Zealand was considerably in advance of that of Great Britain or any other country, consequently New Zealand- should insist on the shipping laws being brought up to' her standdard. No dependence could be placed on British representation during this conference, or otherwise they would not have hung up New Zealand shipping legislation as had been done year after year. Mr Wilson was asked if the statements mado the other day to the effect that the British seamen were physically' degenerating were true. He replied that consumption and chest diseases were very prevalent, largely due to inadequate accommodation • and the miserablo places that were constructed for men to live in under what is-known as "Board of Trade" supervision. The Board had always complained of want of power, but, on the other hand, tlioy never endeavoured to obtain the power thev wanted. ' .jj.ii In conclusion Mr Wilson stated til at he could not allow the occasion to pass without saying a word about the kind wav in which the New Zealand people had treated him during his stay. . Mr Havelock Wilson is accompanied by Mr P.. F. Bell, who is a native of Lvttelton. and for many years was well to the front in Labour matters on the north-east coast of England. He has also for some time identified himself with the movement in the United States. Mr Bell will return from the Bluff on May 11, and on Sunday, Mav 12, he will lecture in Hie Majesty s Theatre. He will deal fully with' the j strike and the present industrial unrest in England, and also the lessons derived from the Titanic disaster.