PARLIAMENTARY.

Lyttelton Times, Volume LII, Issue 5806, 4 October 1879, Page 5

PARLIAMENTARY.

[Phb Pbess Association.J LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL. Fexdat, Oot. 3. After the transaction of routine business, ■ The Hon. Mr Chambbblain asked if the Government intended to introduce any measure for the protection of local industries. He said a protective policy was necessary for the prosperity of the country. The Hon. Colonel Whitixobb said the Government intended to refer the whole subject to a Select Committee. The Hon M. Holmes moved for a return for the Public Trust Office under the Public Trustee Act. He expressed his belief that had there been a Public Trustee in England as there was here, the ruin of many persons by the failure of the Glasgow Bank would not have been caused; The Hon G. M. Warehouse said the appointment of a Public Trustee was outside the business of Government. Had there been a Public Trustee in England Government would have been responsible for the whole of the losses of the Glasgow Bank. The motion was carried. The Deceased Intestates Bill (Eon J. N., Wilson) was read a first time, and the second reading ordered for Tuesday. A Native Affairs Committee of eight members, was appointed on the motion of Captain Ebaseb. The selection was made by ballot. The second reading of the Habitual Drunkards Bill was postponed till Tuesday, the Council being disinclined to take general business till the political crisis was settled. The Council adjourned at 4 p.m.

HOUSE OF BEPBESENTATIVES. Feidat, Oot. 3. AFTERNOONi SITTING. TL a House met at 2.80 p.m. QUESTIONS. Mr Shown applied to be allowed to ask p, question without notice. It was that the Postmaster-General bo requested to state whether the Luba, on August 81, 1872, left Wellington without a mail on board, contrary to what was stated by the Hon J. TTa.ll, The Hon J, Hall eajcf that he had never stated any dates as tb When the Luna left Wellington with a mail. Eventually the latter part of the question was struck out, and the question as amended was put. The Hon J. T. Fishbb said the information asked for would be obtained., Mr Hutchison asked Government whether it is their intention, in connection with their proposed land legislation* to introduce a measure of.reform in the Waste Lands Boards of the Colony, and if so, will the Minister of Lands indicate the direction in which such reform will shape itself. The Hon J. W. Thomson said that on the second reading of the Land Bill now before the House would state the views of Government on the point. Mr Hutchison asked Government if they will be prepared to call for tenders for the repairs of the Government steamers, as for other public works and repairs. , The Pebuibb agreed with the general tenor of the question, but they were not always able to let their repairs by tender. Mr Stevens asked whether there was any foundation for the statements made tbat a number of men have been dismissed from their employment on the ballast train on the Canterbury section of the New Zealand Bailways, and that prison labour has since been employed on that duty. 1 The Hon J. Maoandbbw replied that, having no works for the prison gang, they were employed m the work indicated; Mr * I'Lban asked. Government if they would'lay:before this House*a statement showing; receipts from Customs’, revenue for from land revenue for 30,1879 j Mao receipts the quarter ending Sept, same period. *

The Premier said the return would be .furnished. Mr bain asked whether the report of Mr Pearson, Chief Commissioner of Crown Lands for Southland, is the appendix to the report of the Secretary of Crown Lands, in a full copy of the original report, and if not whether he will have any objection to lay the complete report before the House. The Premier said an additional report hod lately been received, and it would be produced to-morrow. Mr Swanson asked what steps, if any, they intend taking to enforce compliance with clause 23 of the condition in Government contracts. # The Hon J. Maoandbew soid the provisions of the clause would be enforced on complaint being made that the men had not received their wages as provided for by tho Act. Mr Bowen asked if they would lay before this House a return of all persons appointed since the prorogation of the late Parliament to any paid office or position of emolument under Government, stating in each case the nature of the office, whether temporary or permanent, and the emolument attached to it. The Premier said the return would be produced, but it. would take some time to complete. Mr Murray asked if Sir J. Vogel had applied to Government for leave to stand for the representation of an English constituency in the House of Commons; if so, was such permission refused, and why ? The Premier said that the Agent-General had made no such application, and that the opinion of the Government was that he should not stand as representative for an English, or any other constituency. Mr Whitaker asked what steps (if any) had been taken to open up the suburban allotments in the vicinity of the township of Ngaruawhaia, and what length of time will probably elapse before such steps may be ex- , peoted to produce the desired result. The Premier said the matter had been referred to the Native Department for information, and that as soon as it was received the land would be opened up, Mr Andrews asked if all the employees on the Government railways are treated in a uniform manner as regards hours of wort and rates of pay, if a uniform time of working exists of eight hours, if any exception exists and to whom does it apply, if a uniform rate of pay exists for similar services given, if there is any fixed rule for the payment of overtime, and if so what that rule is, and is it observed in all cases.

The Hon J. Maoandhew, in reply, laid on the table a copy of the regulations under which railway employees were engaged.. Mr Hutchison asked whether they 'intended to introduce a further reform in the Jury Laws, more especially (1) By the abolition of the Grand Jury system, (2) By an improvement of the Coroner’s inquest by jury, and (3) By an increase of the payment to common jurors. The Pebmiee said that the whole of the question was under the consideration of the Government. Mr Seddon asked if it is the intention of the Government to onen a Warden’s Office, and appoint a Warden for the Wairarapa district. The Hon W. Gisboenb replied that so soon as the land was proclaimed, arrangements would be made for receiving applications for mining purposes. NEW BILLS. The following Bills were introduced and read a first time:—For the Abolition of Imprisonment for Debt (Mr Hutchison); the Debtors’ and Creditors’ Act 1876, Amendment (Hon J, Sheehan), WANT OP CONFIDENCE DEBATE. Mr Bowen resumed the debate on the noconfidence amendment. He said that the grossest misrepresentations had been made against the Canterbury members in connection with their land laws. Statistics would show that there were more of the yeoman class settled on the bnds by virtue of these laws than in any other place. For the-objectionable part of the Canterbury bnd laws he said the Premier was alone responsible. "When Governor of the Colony he had, in defiance of the prayers of the people. civen effect to legislation which actually gave away their lands to the brge monopolist, and which he did in defiance of the machinery of the Supreme Court. To those who were acquainted with all the facts of the case, it was perfectly amazing to hear the Premier trying to shift the responsibility of those proceedings on to the shoulders of others. What disgusted members on tbat side of tbe House, was the absolute imposture there was in the cry set up by the Government of its liberal interests. A goodly number of speeches had been made by Mr Hall in tbe Legislative Council. Now what were tbe facts of the case P The very speeches were in reality the answers made to questions put by the present Colonial Secretary. The first was that there were no fixed parties in a new country like this. It was simply absurd. Parties were from time to time created as occasion arose. Any of the acts of the Government done in defiance of Parliament would, in another country, have been sufficient to unseat the Government. Their conduct in connection with Mr Larnach was quoted as a case in point. In Parliament it was stated that Mr Larnaoh went home at his own expense, and now it turned out that he had been paid some thousands of pounds. He instanced the Triennial Parliaments Bill, and said that it had drawbacks which had : not been fully considered. It would do away with an appeal to the country on the occasion of some sudden emergency. In a case of that kind it would he deemed more advisable to allow it to run out. It was not, however, a question which divided both sides of the House; it only divided individual members. He hoped that their Bills, which had been kept dangling before the country, would now be allowed to pass, and that the Legislature would now settle down to the business of the country, and not have men going about idle, asking them for bread and getting nothing better than a stone. He alluded to the Land Bill, and stated that the accuracy of the prediction of that side of the House, as to the defects of the Bill had now been fully displayed. He felt convinced that the country would be satisfied with nothing' short of a more equitable distribution of the tar than was Erovided for. In concluding ho stated that is side of the House hoped to see true Liberalism, and not the word made use of for mere clap-trap purposes. Mr Tainui remarked upon the fact of the leader of the Opposition having left the Upper House and come into this one. He did not know during all the time be had been a member of his having passed any laws for the good of the Maoris. He thought that Sir William Fox ought to have been leader of the Opposition, and be felt convinced that he would have been able to form a Government. He would ask that any laws passed might be made similar to those passed for the Entopean. He believed the Premier if left alone would be able to remedy some of the evils expressed by the Native race. The Natives of the Middle Island thought that nothing had been done for their special benefit by Mr Hall; they thought legislation should be progressing in that direction. Mr Tawhai said that the leader of the Opposition was the member of a Government who embroiled tbe Colony in a Native war, and it was not fair for them to blame the Government now in office. He had been sent to this House as a friend of Sir George Grey and Mr Sheehan, and he would carry out what he was sent to do. Mr TAhoana said he came here about the Native grievances. He oamb here to support those who were doing well for the Maoris, Not one promise made affecting the Natives throughout the Islands had been fulfilled. He did not think the Native Minuter had administered affairs satisfactorily. Personally he was not opposed to the Native Minister, nor yet to the Premier, but he considered they had mismanaged Native affairs. He would not support the Ministry in the present crisis; The Hon J• Sheehan said he would not have spoken at all but for the fact that there were so many new members, by whom his silence might be misconstrued, He thought they would be glad to have heard the Maori members who had just sat down. It appeared from the remarks made by one of these members that the leader of the Opposition had interviewed the Maori mem Sen,

That member had said that Mr Ha’l was a new member, and that he believed all he had laid to him he would carry out. That was the way in which support was gained. Whatever was asked was promised. They had been told that the Premier was the first man to make war in New Zealand, whereas the Jact was that the war was in full swine when the Premier came here. Some of the promises made jby the leader of the Opposition to the Maori members were perfectly absurd. The same questions had been put to him (Mr Sheehan), and he replied, “ No, it oann? k®. £ ono ” l n the present state of Maori affairs it is quite impossible. Now, he could come to no other conclusion than that Mr Hall, for, parfcj purposes, had made promises he never could, nor yet intended to, fulfil. He would ask them to consider for a moment the position of the case. They claimed to be the'superior race; they had introduced Christianity amongst the Native?, and yet, for party purposes, to gain these Benches, they misled the Maori, and mada promises to them they nevpr intended to fulfil. He would say that the members on the Government tide of the House were well satisfied with the change which had taken place in the leader of the Opposition. He thought they would all agree that in Mr Hall they had an improvement in what they had lost session. He referred to the fact that they had gone to the country with a majority of 14 against them, and they have found that they had come back with a good firm majority in their favour. He further alluded to the absence of certain leaders, Sir W. Fox, Mr Whitaker, &0., and argued that those facts alone showed that the Opposition had not the sympathies of the country with them. He had to complain of the course taken by the Opposition as' being unconstitutional, at all events unparliamentary and unfair. Tney tabled a vote of want of confidence before they were allowed to bring down their measures. No'w, that was most unfair to the new members. Old members knew from past experience all that information that could be got from Parliamentary papers and records of the House. That took the new members at a disadvantage. They had to take for granted that what they were told was true, and were not allowed an opportunity of investigating the truth or otherwise for themselves, Mr Sheehan then went on to say that it was a well-known fact that many would be disposed to support the Government, but then the excuse they made for their defection was, to use their own words, because " they could not stand Grey.” He would defy anyone to point out a valid reason why the Premier should be thus denounced.' His OWn private character had been * attacked last session, but he would say nothing about that, though when he found his private character again assailed outside the House during the late elections, he thought he had a right to complain. The constituency had very properly rejected the candidature of his maligner and he hoped constituents would all mark a sense of such cowardly conduct in a similar way. ■ The hon. member’s speech was here interrupted by the 5.30 adjournment.

EVENING SITTING. DEFEAT 03? the GOYJEENMENT. The House resumed at 7.30 p.m. The Hon. J, Sheehan resumed the debate. He proceeded to rebut a statement by Mr Hall to the effect that discontent with the Government existed all over the Colony. He assumed that special reference was made to the feeling in the North Island, Because the Maoris of the Thames refused to give up the. offenders was no reason to believe that they were opposed to the Government. On the contrary, the tribe there had done its best to maintain the law, but then blood was thicker than water, and it was on that principle they refused to give up the offenders. They had been complained against about the Luckie transaction, but what were the facte? The Opposition then in power were in the habit of importing Civil Servants from the Old Country whenever there was an opportunity. In appointing Mr Luckie, they appointed one who -Lckl I>mb a T«*y oIA Ooloiußfc. Thon thor» was the Lunatic Asylum accommodation question. To make it complete would require a quarter of a million of money. In that case all that they could do was to make such improvements as they could from time to time. With regard.to the Hinemoa, he could say that no one knew the steamer less than himself. About using the telegraph for election purposes, he could show that any telegram he had dispatched on his own business was paid for, and lie believed the same was the case with his colleagues. That state of things was not the case when the Opposition were in office. The Opposition were not the representatives of those who desired liberal measures. Addressing the Maori members, the speaker said that when they were promised the release of the Maori prisoners, and other promises they were told what was not true and what they never intended to fulfil. The attempt last session to remove Government failed, and he would assure the House that they would be no party to a coalition Governmeht. If defeated they would go out and bide their time. They would be prepared to stand or fall by their party. They would simply take their defeat. The Opposition might win the day by a vote or two; if so, they would find that their troubles would then only begin. They were prepared on their side of the House to go to a vote at once, and would advise those on his side not to speak any more. Dr Walms “ No." He was received by the House with cries of “ divide.” That confirmed him in his determination to address the House. He denied that the tone of the debate had improved, and said it wss only a catch to get at the young members. If they carried out the Liberal measures they were returned to carry out, a dissolution would have to take place at the end of this session. He charged the Opposition with an attempt to defeat that purpose. If the amendment was carried, he predicted that not one of the measures put forward in the speech would be carried, but on the contrary the legislature of the country would revert again to the slow groove in which it had so long run. ' The question was then put —“That the amendment stand part of the question,” when there voted for the ayes 43, and for the noes 41. The following is the division list: — ilvbs—43. Noes—4l. Messrs Adams Messrs Allwright Atkinson Andrews Bain Ballance Boethtm Barron Bowen Bunny. Bryce Colbeok Dick . DeLautour Driver Finn Fulton Fisher, J, B. Gibbs Fisher, J. T. Hall George Hirst Gisborne Hursthouse Sir G. Grey Johnston Messrs Hamlin Kelly Harris Kenny Hislop Levin Hurst Mason Hutchison Masters Ireland M'Oaughan Lundon M‘Lean Macandrew Moorhouse M'Donald Murray Montgomery Oliver Moss Ormond Beeves Pitt Beid Fyke Seddon Biohmond Shanks Bolleston Sheehan Bussell Shephard Saunders Shrunski Seymour Speight Stevens Swanson Stewart Tainui Studholme Tawhai Sutton ,Te Wheoro Tamoana Thomson Trimble Tole Wakefield Turnbull Whitaker , Wallis Whyte Wood Willis Wright Paibs. Ate.— Brandon Ho.— Brown The Hob Join Haia moved— “That

Tri 1 mb i le ’. Atkinson, Pitt, and the Sed ” 40 prepare the addrMS “ n .?“®“ otion was pnfc and carried. The bl ”«“ T' The Hon J. T, Fishes, replying to a quesfaon put by Mr J. 0, Brown, said thoQo- *, fc * amer Lul, a did not on August ke mwl f rom Wellington, but that she brought back a mail from Port Chalmers on Sept. S, following. The Pbbkixb moved—“ That ns the House had affirmed the amendment that the Government as constituted does not possess the confidence of members, the House do now adjourn till Tuesday.” The motion was put and carried at 9.20 p.m. The House adjourned till Tuesday. [robx OPE OWN OOEEESPONDENT.J ' WELLINGTON, Oct. 3, . ™ debate was resumed this afternoon by Mr Bowen, who spoke about an hour.. At the commencement, the only member absent was Mr Hick, but during the course of the speech the benches gradually emptied. Mr Bowen was followed by Tainui, who supported'the Government, Tawhia resented Mr Saunders* sneers at the Maoris, concluding by saying that he would vote as a rangatira (gentleman), namely, in accordance with his promises to his constituents. He said, “ I will act as a chief, and will rote in accordance with what I promised to do when I was sent here." The white “rats” winced visiWy at this sneer. Tamoana disclosed that the Hon John Hall had promised Te Wheoro, the portfolio of Native Minister. He said “ Mr Hall agreed to all my proposals with respect to the Native race, and I agreed to support him.” Mr Sheehan then rose. He dared Mr Hall to carry out his promise to appoint Te Wheoro Native'Minister, ardtwics paused for a reply, but the leader of the Opposition declined to accept the challenge. On the question of the Native difficulty, Mr Sheehan endorsed the opinion of the Special Correspondent of the Lyttelton Times, that unless the matter was soon settled the cry of Separation might be raised in the Middle Island. Last night, Mr Dejjautour, in speaking of the Lyttelton Times characterised it as the leading paper of the Colony, a statement which was received with expressions of approval, and not a word of dissent.

In the evening Mr Sheehan finished his speech, and after a few words from Dr Wallis, the- division was taken. Te Wheoro voted with the Government in consequence of Mr Hall’s action. • A Ministerial caucus will be held at eleven o’clock to-morrow. Under the circumstances the Governor will probably be asked to allow a reconstruction of the Ministry, by which a majority would be secured. A private letter has been received in Wellington, stating that Sir E. Stafford, now in London, is about to contest an Irish constituency in the Home Bnle interest.