MR ORMOND AT THE THEATRE ROYAL.

Hawke's Bay Herald, Volume XXI, Issue 6912, 16 July 1884, Page 2

MR ORMOND AT THE THEATRE ROYAL.

Mr Ormond addressed the electors of Napier at the Theatre Royal last evening. The Theatre was packed to suffocation, standing-room being hardly obtainable. Among those present were a number of ladies. . On the motion of Mr Cotton, seconded by Mr Spence, Mr Swan was called to the chair.

In a few introductory remarks the Chairman bespoke a fair and " colonial " hearing for Mr Ormond. He had, he f-aid, been twitted with having giving his support to Mr Ormond, but he was proud of tliat twitting. (Applause.) He would tell them why he gave his adhesion to Mr Ormond. All would admit that the great interest taken in this election was due to selfish causes. (Oh, oh, and applause.) That was the fact — each man determined to support the candidate who he thought would best look after the interests of the district in Parliament. He was an integral part of the community; and hia interests were bound up in the interests of the district. He believed . that Mr Ormond would do most for the district — that he was the best and strongest man, and he therefore supported Mr Ormond. (Applause.) Mr Ormond, who was received with tremendous applause, expressed his pleasure at seeing such a large assemblage. Among them were many of his supporters, and doubtless some opponents, but he hoped there were also a number who had decided neither for or against him, and who would decide after hearing both his opponent and himself. He asked for a fair hearing, as ho wished to talk about many things, and he also hoped that his own supporters would give the sarre fair hearing to his opponent when he addressed the electors. He hoped hat oa both sides the contest would bo conducted with fairness, and, as far as was possible, with good temper, so that after the polling-day all would shake hands and be friends again. (Applause.) In the first place he desired to refer very briefly to his past career as a public man. Ho recognised amongst his supporters many old settlers to whom it was unnecessary to speak of his past career, but there were also a great many who had nbc known him in the past. He was an old settler, and he claimed that, throughout his career, he had identified himself wiih the people auiougst whom he lived. In what he would say ho would endeavor —as far as he could do so in justice to himself — to avoid any references which would cause irritation to those op-

posed to him, and he thought they would hardly "hear the name of his opponent. If he were not able to get the support of the electors on hia own merits and past career he would not seek that support — he would not seek to get in Parliament by detracting from his opponent. (Loud applause.) For twenty years he represented a neighboring electorate in the House of Representatives, and during the whole of that long time he endeavored to do his duty. Twenty years was a long time in the history of one's life. A man might fairly be judged by his work in that time, and he thought he could claim, without egotism, that he had obtained in the colony a standing amongst its public men. Since he— in common with other gentlemsn rejected at the last election — had been out of Parliament, and up to the present time, there were evidences that their return to public life was wished hy a large majority of the people of the colony - (applause) — and they might feel proud, and he did feel proud, that now their fellow colonists were inclined to do them that much justice. (Applause. ) For many years he was Superintendent of this province, doing, he hoped, useful work, and identifying himself with the people. In times happily now gone by and looked back to with satisfaction — times of great difficulty and danger —he was the Government Agent for Hawke's Bay, and in that •capacity also he could claim to have done no inconsiderable service. (Applause.) Those were honorable positions, which any man might be proud oi t having attained. But he had occupied minor positions inwhich he had endeavored to serve the public to the best of his ability. As chairman of the Education Board he had taken an active part in the administration of the Education Act, and had devoted no inconsiderable time and work to it. He=washappy to say. that in .thisdistrict the Act had been so administered »8 to avoid that clashing between the Board and the local committees which in some other districts had gone far to -destroy the usefulness of the education system. He was not claiming any special merit for this, for he held that it was every man's duty to do his best for the community amongst whom he lived, and he claihie'd only that he had done his •duty to his fellow-settlers — nothing more. As chairman of the. Harbor "Board he occupied a position which was at the present moment of great interest to ' them all. In the past, he claimed for the other menibers of the Board and for himself, , r they had done their duty, though theyiiacl made mistakes and were not always successful in what they had undertaken. At the present time the Board was.engaged in endeavoring to forward k work which he believed would entirelyjp.hange. the future of the district and the 'town. ' (Loud applause.) When a few y£ars. | ago,h,e became convinced that the present" works were never likely to result in what had, been anticipated from them, he made up hia mind that another schemeimust.be sought for if the district . were to advance as it should do. As a large property-holder in the. district, and . as a dweller in the town, where he was likely tc'spend his whole life, he was in-, terested us much as anyone, and ho and other members of the Board turned their attention to other works. The result was that the Board had now a scheme before 1 them which he believed would accomplish what waa'deflired, and they were doing their best to give effect to it. (Applause.) He would just refer to canards — unworthy canards— which had been set afloat to the effect that he' was not in earnest in advocating this work. Those who believed that did not kndw him. (Applause.) But the best proof of his earnestness in the matter waa that it wag mainly he who had put the whole scheme in its present position. They had been told by their representatives in r Parliament that the bill would not meet' with much opposition in Parliament. M This was because in that scheme the people asked only for permission to do the work themselves,, and, offered to, become responsible for the interest on the money required for its construction. He thought out the plan and brought it before the Board, and prepared the bill in the form in which it was sent to Parliament. If he had not been thoroughly sinoerejhe could, with the.knowledge gained in his Parliamentary career, have prepared a very different bill, but he knew thai; was the only way in which success- 1 could ;be obtained. ' Both inside and outside^ the Board it had been suggested that -endowments or grants of public tnioney should be asked for, but to all such' he urged 1 that to do so would be to endartger.the'bill. (Applause.) If he were returned he pledged himself to take : an active'" part in carrying it though, and he beliey.e.d'., he would be in a position to largely-.assist in that result. (Applause.) In a few months he hoped . to see the works commenced. (Loud applause.) If any man after that pledge impugned his earnestness, what he had said could be repeated, and hq challenged anyone to show one instance in: which he had ever broken a promise during his twenty yearß of; public life. (Renewed applause.) One of the things a candidate was expected to do was to declare his views and what party he would belong to.' He could tell them his views plainly enough, but be could not tell at all clearly what party he would support. The present condition of political affairs was" most extraordinary — it had seldom been paralleled in this or any neighboring colony. Parliament by a . considerable majority .practically, declared that in the House there could not be found a set of men to whom the destinies of the country could be entrusted — so a dissolution was demanded. One thing he could say — and that was he would not be found a aupporter of the present Ministry. It was not without pain tliat he said this, for he had in the past been intimately associated with some of the present leaders as colleagues, they were his. personal friends, and such , he. hoped tbey would always remain. Individually they were true and honorable, men, bnt he differed .on public grounds from them. It was only right and fair he should give them some cause for the position he took up. In the. year 1882 there was a difference* between himself and the Government. The colony had then entered upon a state of depression," which had affected this and the neighboring colonies ever since. To his mind, it was necessary that some provision should be made against the evil then existing in the colony and which: had yet to: come. When the.Governme'rit brought down, their financial proposals, he saw that no such provision"'''was made, and he conceived that by that ., omission the Government, .had failed in their duty. Ifc was the duty of Governments, as well as of private individuals, to provide for financial difficulties and to take proper steps to meet their engagements. Without separating himself from the party he had •worked with, he spoke strongly on the position of the colony. He might explain that he was never one of those,, who spoke in doleful tones of the depression, or as if it were going to last, as he^had always had great! faith in the country and its resources. But he also .recognjsed they owed duties to the enuiitry and to themselves, and that the Government should therefore have made provision for a rainy day. He therefore made a speech in this House at that time, which attracted some attention, and in which he blamed the , .Government for ,pot< D considering the condition of the country. Speaking as a man/vvho knew something of what he was talking about, he said the Government could have curtailed expenditure by just economies so as to b&veisaved the country the large sum of £200,000. He regretted to state that hi§? speech was received by ■ the friends of the Government with anything bufc satisfaction, and he was looked upon as Waving committed an act of hostility. Mr Hall, the then Premier, jeeringly said to him (Mr Ormond) " You had better do

ifc yourself." He answered that it was the duty of the Premier to carry out the views suggested. The Government ; -.declared nothing of the kind was possible, but within a few days, or certainly withiu'a few weeks, the Government found he had struck the key-note of the Assembly, and other members gave it as their opinion that he had only stated the truth, and that it was the duty of the country to do justice to itself in these matters. Within a fortnight after his speech, the Government came down ana admitted that economy could be practised, and made other proposal.. Their proposals were to make an all-round ten per cent, .reduction on all the wages and salaries paid to servants of the colony. He opposed that proposal of the Government. (Applause.) •He told the Government it was unjust and -unfair, and pointed out to them where savings should be made by amalgamations of offices and departments — departments which to his knowledge were largely dependent upon each other to produce work to keep themselves in existence. The Government were paying at the time for services which he called luxuries, such as postal Bervices three or four times a week where one would suffice, and so on. He urged in the strongest and most emphatic way that the ten per cent, reductions would be unfair. He had never had any other opinion on the matter, and believed Btill that it was not the way in which the reductions should be brought about. In the course of those debates he got from Major Atkinson a promise that he would go into the question, and see whether he could effect savings in the way pointed out by him (Mr Ormond.)' He knew those re- ! ductionß— by amalgamation, &c. — could have been carried out, and he had implicit faith in trie Government attempting to carry them out. He had been judged unfairly on this question by a section of the community. After he had extracted a J pledge from the Government, other members who were not in a position to enforce or take up the question with any chance of giving effect to a motion of the kind, moved motions to the effect that the reductions should only take place in salaries below a certain amount. It was said of him because he had not voted for those motions, or had voted against them, that he was therefore opposed to the motions.. Nothing was more untrue or unfair. He had made a compact with I the Government and the country, and it was his duty to see they bad/fair play, and were not interfered with in carrying out their engagements. He was aware that some of them could not understand ■ these discrepancies, but so it was, and ha would have been laying himeelf open to rebuke in Parliament if, having extracted a promise from the Government, he had afterwards joined with their opponents in opposing them, or giving them trouble and inconvenience. That, was the history of his vote on that occasion. No one knew better than he did the unfair application of the reductions, and he was, then and now, totally opposed to them. He was a man who had been in the Government of the country, and knew something of its employes. He knew the position of junior officers in the telegraph and postal department,' and also the position of the laboring classes, and the last thing in his thoughts — the last :of his wishes — was that the reductions should apply in their case. The reason of: hi 3 being defeated at the last elections was the result of what ho was then talking about. Because he had done hia duty to the country, and effected savings, he was punished by a - class for having done hia duty. He would not say they did it willingly, or were aware of the injustice they did him, but it was a grave injustice to punish him for actions for which he was not responsible, instead of thanking him and supporting him for the action he took. He hoped he had made plain to them that, at any rate, his sympathies were entirely opposed to the reductions, and their injustice, as they were carried buti His. conduct as a large employer of labor did not justify the accusations brought against him. (Loud applause.) He had no sympathy with low wages. He believed low wages meant timeß of depression, difficulty, and everything that was undesirable in a country like this — he believed in getting good men and in giving good pay. (Renewed applause.) There were other differences between himself and the Government, but there was not. time to go into them, but he might tell them this. When he went back to the House in 1881, he found himself more separated .from the Government" than he had ever been before. He went back sore on account of the ten per cent, reductions, because, as he had told them, ho thought they had been carried out imiproperly. The great question was that day by day they were seeing the administration of affairs interesting to themselves absorbed in a centre at Wellington. He was dissatisfied with it, and made up his mind that the time had come when a check must be put upon that. When he went to the House the position was this : The Government had a large following — large chiefly because on the other side of the House there were gentlemen with but very small followings who did not have the confidence of Parliament. He deemed it his duty, therefore, to take hiß own line, and to guide the Government if he could. He spoke again in the session of 1881, and the occasion was this : The Government- came down with pro.posals with regard to finding money for local bodies. Major Atkinson's scheme wa3 embodied in the' Roads and Bridges Construction Act, and in the Crown and Native Lands Rating Act. In those he declared he was goirg to make absolute provision in every way for local bodies, but he (Mr Ormond), believed those measures were only perpetuating tha evils local bodies suffered from, and that the financial proposals of these measures were no provision at all, but only a stopgap. He also viewed in those measures still further attempts to centralise power at Wellington, and he was very „ strong upon attempting to regain into their own hands some of the administration, of local affairs now passing, or already passed, away from us. Again he ■ came forward — not as a leader of any party, but simply from the position lie had made in the House. . He made a speech which took the ear of the House, and this was what took place : — After he bad explained his views, the Government found themselves inadecided ■ minority, and that a number of their party would not go with them. A compact was therefore made between the G-overntnent and some of their supportersto vote against his, (Mr Ormond's) amendments; the understanding being that if' the Government supporters voted against the amendments the measures should -be withdrawn for the session. He therefore gained his point, which was "that those measures should be submitted to the country. There was auother action of the Government, which justified him in refusing to support them. The colony was living under responsible government, and those who understood the full force of that expression knew that it meant government by. the will, of the people. Thone who attempted to carry out any policy .which the people believed should not be carried out,, ought not to occupy the position of leaders of the ,-reprer seritatives of : the • people. That -migbt seem an unimportant question; but'it" was very important indeed, and if 'they, allowed the precedent of a Government ruling the country against the' desire of the people, they would part with'the best and greatest privilege they now enjoyed. These were" <jhe main grounds upon 'which he. based, his'.differences. with the' Government..; He! felt sore on this pofritj 'especially, in reference to the hostile attitude of the Government in connection with local bodies, and he believed a large majority, of those present felt sore on this 1 point too. Ho would refer to theiejeoMon I of the Municipal Council from their office!?.

(Loud cheers.) Heknrw well the capabilities of the place from which the Council were ejected, and he knew that all the accommodation wanted for the Government was there without the unnecessary hostility to the local body displayed. His opimon was that it was the duty of the Government to do all in their power to assist local bodies, and not to oppose them. (Applause.) Then in regard to the hospital. A large number of them had read the correspondence that had passed on this subject between the Government and the local body managing the hospital, and that did such good work among them. The Government seemed to have grown a great deal into a body having strong hostility to local bodies, and it was time such a feeling wns put an end to. He should not go back to the House a supporter of the Government, bnt they might want to know how he would go, if elected. His position could very soon be explained. There were, as they knew, two other leaders besides Major Atkinson, leading only a small section of the House and not in a position to form a Government. He referred to Sir George Grey and Mr Montgomery. The latter had entirely put himself out of the question by promulgating the doctrine of separation. By this he had buried himself politically. As to Sir George Grey, he (Mr Ormond) differed with most of the things promulgated by him. He also reepgnised this fact, that Sir George, in the present contest, was practically out of the running. (Laughter.) Those who studied the aspect of affairs would admit that nowhere, except in Auckland, would Sir George have any following. (A Voice : " Say you don't know.") Well, he hoped so. He hoped that the spectacle that was presented to them when Sir George Grey's Government brought the colony to the verge of financial ruin, had destroyed all chance of his ever being again entrusted with the position and power he had so terribly abused. (Loud applause.) That community, he (Mr Ormond) felt sure, would by an immense majority be against putting back Sir George Grey into power to carry out similar mischief to that he had carried out when before in power. There was another man who had lately come back to the colony, and was now occupying a more prominent position than Sir George Grey. (Applause.) They must not applaud him too soon. He would have to know a great deal more of Sir Julius Yogel than he knew that night, before he could tell them he would support him. He was not speaking in an unfriendly way towards him. He (Mr Ormond) admired Sir Julius Yogel for many good qualities, and knew that he was a great man in , prosperous times, but had yeb to learn that he was the man to lift them out of the difficulties the country was now in. He (Mr Ormond) was sorry to hear that so far as health went Sir Julius Yogel was now a prostrate man, and had little of that old strength he used to bring to political and other work, but he was a man of great abilities and many good qualities. But honestly speaking, he (Mr Ormond) would have to be much more satisfied about Sir Julius Yogel before supporting him. There was one point against Sir Julius Yogel to his (Mr Ormond's) mind which, thinking as he did, he felt it right to give to the meeting. Sir Julius Yogel had come back to this country as a visitor, after having severed his connection with it. He had no stake among them, and the only interest he felt in the colony was that it was a country in which he had worked. He had nothing against Sir Julius Yogel, but spoke of him as a friend, but he (Mr Ormond) believed that whatever work a man did in the present should be work he was willing to be affected by in the future. Sir Julius Yogel might be useful to the country in its present condition, but he might go away again, as he had done on a former occasion. This was a serious objection, as at the preaent time the men who. were wanted for the Government of the country were men identified with its interests, and who would have to bear the burden of any mistakes they might make. Sir Julius Yogel had done good to the country by his speech. He had rebuked the tendency of public men to dwell upon the depression in the colony, and had told us to rely upon ourselves and our great resources. He had also done good service, especially to the laboring classes — and coming just from England, tfhere he had an opportunity of knowing the mind of financial circles, he could speak with authority — by pointing out how our public men were destroying all confidence in the value of property. Speaking as one well able to give an opinion on the subject, he had shown how capital was the great necessity for a young country. They might depend upon it that everything — the future progress of the country, good wages, the settlement of the land — everything in the future depended upon inviting to this country men of capital, and yet public men were doing all in their power to deter capital and men of capital from coming to the country. Men who did this, Sir Julius said, were traitors to the country, and he (Mr Ormond) 6aid the same. No greater injury had been done to the working classes than by men who depreciated the value of property in this country, and thereby prevented that which was the source of future independence and wealth coming to the country. All would admit — it was a truism — that the future of the country depended upon bringing into it capital, and men of capital who would improve the country. (A voice : " No.") He pitied the man who said " no," and the ignorance which made him say it. (Applause.) The matter would not bear arguing. All men, whatever their opinions on other subjects, must agree about that, unless they were the silliest of the silly. Capital would give employment to those here, and assist in opening up the country, a great part of which was yefc lying waste. Yet would-be leaders of the country were saying " there is no property here." "What was money to be lent on but land, and yet there were those who were telling . them there should be no property at all. Referring to taxation, Mr Ormond said the last financial statement showed a deficit on the past year of £152,000. For that Major Atkinson bad provided as most Treasurers did, by issuing Treasury bills, and that amount therefore stood against future revenue. Without taking a despondent view of the colony, he (Mr Ormond) thought there was not likely to be a change for the better in the revenue. The revenue could only be increased by the spending power of the community increasing. Ho did not see, therefore, how the revenue of the coming year could be greater than last year. Unless expenditure was curtailed, there would be a deficit of a like amount this year, or a total of over £300,000. They had also to provide interest on the £1 ,000,000 spent . last year for public works, or, in other words, there was likely to be a deficit at the end of the year of £350,000. Major Atkinson, when addressing his constituents, had said that the Government could carry on without imposing fresh taxation, and hia only explanation of ;the scheme was the statement that a reduction of expenditure could be brought about by a re- organisation of the Civ,il Service, and that the Government had proposals to make in reference to hospitals. If Major Atkinson had acted prpperly; and was able to make the reductions he spoke of, he should haye submitted the scheme to the people at the general elections. But let the position of the Government in reference to their proposals be considered. The yeir before last, Mr Swanson, a popular Auckland representative, told the Government the expenses of the the Civil Service should be reduced by £50,000. The Government refused to take back the estimates then, and yet they now said they had a scheme by which much larger reductions could be carried into effect. He (Mr Ormond) knew a little of the

Civil Service — perhaps as much as Major Atkinson — and he thought that, by combining the duties of officers economy might be brought about, and only in that way. Mr Ormond then went on to criticise the way in which the hospitals were mismanaged by the Government, and instanced the Napier hospital, which had to go begging to the Government for small doles, while hospitals in other parts of the country were entirely supported by the Government. There was no fixed system of dealing with hospitals, and members had been wrangling on this question for several years without good results. If there were a good system of hospital management, the Napier citizens would not have to go to the Government asking, as if it were a favor, for that which ought to be their own by right. Ho did not believe that it would be possible for the Government of the country to be carried on without farther taxation. Those persons who told them fresh taxation would not be needed were misleading them, and were failing in their duty. He would be sorry to come before them with that statement that night. Taxation would have to be imposed to meet the requirements of the country. He was sorry to have to say this, but the credit of the country would have to be maintained. He would now say how be believed that taxation should be imposed. Ifc would be idle for any man knowing anything of public affairs to say that the Customs duties could be increased. He wished to goodness they could be decreased, and that they could look forward to an early reduction in the Customs duties, but at this time of depression it would be unwise to do anything to unsettle the financial condition of the country. But if any additional taxation were imposed it would have to be upon property. (Applause.) He wished to insist upon that. He had always been a strong disbeliever in the property tax. The great mistake of that tax was that it taxed the improving settler, and allowed the man who did not improve to go comparatively free. Mr Ormond entered fully into the reasons why he could not support tho property | tax, giving, amid loud applause, a number 1 of illustrations of the vicious working of j the tax, and then went on to say that what he would propose in place of the property tax would be a land tax, side by side with an income tax. The land tax, he contended, should be devoted to a fund for local purposes, and the proceeds of an income tax devoted to the purpose of general government. These were the views he had held in years gone by, and he found himself on this question to some extent in accord with the party he was opposed to. But he would say that at present a land and income tax were unknown quantities. Other men who had worked out the question might think they caw clearly what would be raised by these taxes, but they were not able to say at present what might be the effect of a sudden change in the incidence of taxation. At a time like the present, when the country was in difficulties, they must be perfectly certain of the steps they were taking before making any great change. He wished that to be understood. He did not pledge himself to any immediate change in the incidence of taxation, but what he had said on the subject of a land and income tax indicated what direction he would be found going in when the circumstances of the country rendered a change safe. When the time came he would be found voting for the taxes he had named. Mr Ormond then went on to strongly denounce the evils of absenteeism. He said he had no sympathy at all with absentees who occupied large blocks of country, and lived in Europe drawing every penny from the colony, and returning nothing to it. One of the strongest arguments in favor of land tax, to his mind, was that it would touch such men as those he had alluded to. A land tax would get at and destroy the system of holding large areas of land for speculative purposes, which land might otherwise be made useful to the community. (Tremendous cheering.) These absentees were in the way of settlement, and were nob bearing the brunt of the burdeus borne by the colonists. (Renewed cheering.) In concluding his reference to taxation, Mr Ormond said he would do all in his power to put it on a fixed and final basis, so that financial evils should not bo caused by the uncertainty due to changes on the incidence of taxation. He would not favor a cessation of all further borrowing. It was not possible in the present condition of the colouy. There were many works in the colony unfinished, and it was necessary these should be completed. If, as private individuals, they had got a piece of machinery, or other work unfinished, which when completed would be productive, they would act wisely in incurring increased responsibility to get that piece of work finished, and it was so with the colony. There ought to be now left for railway purposes £1,000,000 out of the £3,000,000 loan, but the exigencies of the past year had caused the Government to forestall a considerable portion of that amount. If they ceased to borrow money for the prosecution of public works, a large number of men in the employment of the colony would be thrown out of employment. The most important of the lines of railway must be completed, and he could not honestly tell them he was one of those who would stop all further borrowing for public works. On another phase of the railway question, he wished to put himself right. He was still beiug misrepresented by persons who said he had recommended the .sale of the railways. He had \iever done anything of the kind. At present the working of the railways gave great dissatisfaction. They were worked neither to the advantage of the colony or the users of the lines, and reform and amendment were imperative. Ifc was while talking on that subject i before that he said that if the manage- | tnent could not be improved, public men must think what it was best to do with them. He did not recommend that the railways should be sold, but that, if possible, an isolated section— -he suggested the Auckland lines — should be leased, so that it might be seen how a private company would manage, and whether something could not be learnt to the advantage of the colony. He believed it could. (Applause.) When he spoke of railway management being badly conducted he did not wish to blame those in charge locally, for he knew that they were absolutely powerless, and they were often blamed when they were helpless. One of the greatest misfortunes of the present management was that practically there was no local control — the whole thing was ruled by orders from one centre, and ■there the great difficulty lay. (Applause. Some prominent men like Mr Richardson — and Sir Julius Yogel seemed to adopt the same view — thought that the best plan of reform was to place the management of the railways in a non-political Board. He knew something of this subject from his past experience as Minister for Public Works, and he had done his best to master the question. At present he did not agree with that suggestion, but he did not say that a scheme might not be shown him which might be worked with advantage. There were several difficulties in the way. The plan he saw sketched out was for a Board of Management, of four or five gentlemen, for each island. If men of any use in such a position were to be got they must be highly paid, and the cost of the Boards alone would be a heavy charge. Then he failed to see howdependent as the colony was for part of its revenue on the working of the railwayB — the Government could divest itself of responsibility with regard to that source of revenue. He mußt be satisfied on that point before he could agree to go in the direction of non-political Boards. (Applause.) He had referred to the want of local oontrol in the management of the

lines, and he would give an instance. Under the new tariff, until the last day j or two, Mr Holt's trucks with timber were carried from the bush to the Spit and back again to Napier, because that was cheaper than stopping them at Napier on the way down. That was simply ridiculous — (laughter and applause) — yet when the late local manager was spoken to about it he could do nothing. Another thing was the difficulty placed in the way of those who wanted to bring business to the line, and who required sidings. In his private capacity he had assisted to get several sidings, aud he knew the difficulties and delays placed in the way of those who were anxious to bring traffic and revenue to the lines. It was almost incredible that such a state of things Bhould exist, but it did exist, and reform was absolutely necessary. In couconection with that question there was another aspect affecting another set of people— the railway employes. When he was Minister for Public Works, among the difficulties he found was this — that if any officer, in any part of the colony, had a grievance, he had to submit it to Wellington to be decided. Often it was impossible, for want of information, to arrive at the truth. He believed that the same system prevailed now. Hundreds of railway workmen at Christchurch and Dunedin — and at Napier there were a considerable number — if they had any difficulty with the officer in local control, could only send their cases to Wellington to be decided by the General Manager. He made personal inquiry into theße cases, and he found that in some instances great hardship had been dealt oat to individuals. At the cost of much time and trouble he worked up numbers of these cases, and the conviction came upon him that, however earnest they might be, justice was practically impossible under that system — no central tribunal could deal with such matters. The people should insist on such a reform in this matter as would secure fair and impartial justice to all employes. (Applause.) There should also be permanency in the employment of men. With good pay and permanency of employment the country could command the services of the beat men. But the question was surrounded with great difficulties, and though he thought much about it he had to acknowledge that he left it in a state which did not satisfy him at all. This he did— he caused it to be understood that complaints of that kind had only to reach him to make him coneider it his duty to get to the bottom of the facts, and that checked the repetition of similar abuses to those he dealt with. (Applause.) The position of those engaged in running the railways also attracted bis attention, and he understood that Mr Oliver, his successor, issued regulations under which there was proper promotion to employe's, both in pay and position, according to length of service and the services they rendered. He did not know whether these regulations were in force now, but if he went to Parliament he would make it his business to see that justice was done in these matters. (Applause.) To get back to the question of borrowing. There were some lines which must be extended with borrowed money, and others which he did not think should be constructed except under certain conditions. As an instance of the first he would take the Hawke's Bay line, which held the proud position of being the best paying line in the North Island. All would agree that such a line should be proceeded with. Groing to the Middle Island, there was the extension of the railway from Canterbury to Marlborough and Blenheim. That was one of the authorised lines, but it would run through a country almost unoccupied, and which was held in large estates by private individuals. There would be no traffic there that would within a reasonable time pay interest on the necessary expenditure, and if the line were to be proceeded with it must only be on condition that large cessions of land were made by the ownerß. (Applause.) In the extreme south there waa the Otago central line. He knew the route — he had been over it. That line would open up a large extent of Crown lands, which would be enhanced in value, and settlement would be promoted. Tb at was a line the country might construct. Another line wa3 one which dwellers in Canterbury were very earnest about — one to connect Canterbury with the West Coast. That would run through country most of it entirely unfit for settlement. Ifc was believed there were large mineral resources on. the route, but that was not a matter of certainty. If that was to be constructed it could not be by borrowed money, but it might be done by cessions of land to a private company, who would build it and take their chance. Then there was the Northern trunk line, which was already authorised, and for which a loan of one million had also been authorised. The line, h9 admitted, was of very great consequence to the North Island, for if the central line were adopted — and it appeared to be the 1 general opinion that it would (be — it would open up large traots of country available for settlement, lying between the Kiner country and wherever the railway to ached. But for 200 miles the line , would run entirely through native territory—country wholly unoccupied. Large blocks of it were fit for settlement, and it was to the interest of the country to get it settled. Notwithstanding that he was a North Island man he was not prepared, if he went to Parliament, to allow the line to be constructed while the land re- i mained in its present position. The question waa whether the country would again perpetrate the great mistake of the past, and allow loan money to be spent to add value to lands in private hands. That brought him to the question of dealing with native lands. At present the law allowed direct purchase by private individuals from the natives. He was one of those responsible for that law. Those who promoted it thought it advisable to try the plan, bufc after a long trial he must now admit that they made a mistake in ever giving up the pre-emptive right of the Crown. What brought about the change was thia : At the time the Crown had almost stopped buying native lands. The colony, especially the South Island, was disgusted with the Native Lands Purchase Department. The result was that settlement in the North Island was at a stand-still, and it was thought that if the natives were allowed to sell direct to Europeans the land would be settled, and thereby become liable to pay rates and taxes. But the results had not justified that belief. Comparatively little country had come under settlement, and a great many evils had grown vp — worse evils than under the direct system. In the old days the greatest evils were the abuses of the land-purchase agents of the CrowD. But under the present system there had sprung up a number of landagent lawyers— a greater curse than ever the land-purchace agents were. (Laughter and applause.) The whole thing was such a scandal that in the late Parliament there was an almost unanimous opinion that it should be stopped. A mistake had been made, and it was felt we must retrace our steps and re-invest the Crown with the pre-emptive right. Mr Bryce had promised to bring such a bill down. But he (Mr Ormond) wanted to go a good deal further than that. At present there were enormous tracts of unoccupied native country in the Waikato, Wanganni, Rangitikei, and the East Coast, from the Bay of Plenty to Poverty Bay, with a groat deal of good land among, it. This land was allowed to lie unproductive, yielding nothing to assist in lightening the burdens of the country. The time had come when that land should pay taxes, and share the | colonial burden. (Loud applause.) He was convinced that that would be speedily carried out. He was not in favor of doing any injustice to the natives, but to hia mind the North Island would never pro-

gress as it should do until these large trp.cts of waste lamia were occupied. The present law professed to rate native lands, but it only applied to lands in districts proclaimed by the Governor, and tho Government— that was the European population — paiil the rates, which were chaiged against the land and allowed to accumulate until it was sold, when the purchaser j>aid the accumulated rates. He advocated making Maori land paj' rates just as if it belonged to Europeans — (applause)— and if the rates were! not paid a portion of the land should be sold. But tho tax must be in such a shape that no one could say that it confiscated tho lands, or acted unjustly to the natives. So at the same time he would set aside a fund from which the land could be purchased. No fictitious value should be put upon it. Some was almost intrinsically valueless until it wa3 opened up by railways and roads, and some required large sums spent on it in improvements to make it productive. "When the Government taxed the land they should also, as a matter of fairness, say to the natives, " We are going to tax your lands, and if you choose to bold them as waste lands, you mnsfc pay." That would lead to the alienation o£ large blocks of landj on which Europeans would settle. But at the same time some such bill as that promised by tho late Government must be passed. That bill, as he understood, proposed that native lands should be sold just as Crown lands wero sold, through the Waste Lands Board, and the proceeds — he presumed after deducting the cost of snrvey and sale and making roads — handed over to the Maoris. That should be part of the scheme. When such laws were passed he would consent to the construction of the northern trunk line. (Applause.) He now came to speak of the sale of waste lands, which had a close ) connection with what he had sketched out. The waste lands — especially when the native lands were to be sold by the same governing hody — must not be administered by a nominated body. (Applause.) He would come to that question again presently, when dealing with local government. He could not help at that point paying his tribute to the administration of the present Minister of Lands, Mr Rolleston. He did not believe in all Mr Eolleston had done, but he did believe that he had honestly endeavored wherever he could to forward settlement. He had carried out this right principle — that land should be partially opened up by roads before being sold, But he differed from Mr Rolleston as to the means of working — by nominated Land Boards — for he thought the local bodies would have carried out road construction in a |omch better manner. He also disagreed entirely with Mr Rolleston's " fad "of leasing the lands. It was an un-English system, and would retard settlement. There were yet in this country immense blocks of unsettled lands, and every inducement should be offered to induce men to settle tho country. The greatest inducement which could be offered was a freehold. (Applause.) He (Mr Ormond) also believed in the settlement of land by associations, and Mr Eolleston did not. He (the speaker) was connected with the starting of the associations in the Seventy Mile Buah, and he believed the settlers wonld all agreo with him that they had a better chance of working out settlement than if they went as single individuals to take up land (Applause.) Another subject which wanted more time than he could give lo it was the necessity for checking centralism. The tendency of the present time was to demand that local affairs should be administered locally. (Applause.) He held very strong opinions on that point— so strong that he left the late Government party on that account, and nothing could better show the strength of a man's convictions than that. But day by day the colony was going further and further in the direction of a centralising policy. He would take an instance. What more fit or proper for a local representative body to deal with than the administration of the waste lands ? But none of the present local bodies could take such a charge. The municipalities provided for the particular wants of towns. In the country there were the County Councils and the Road Boards doing identical work — looking after the roads. He thought the Road Board the most useful part of the system, and that the County Councils could be swept away. There should be some larger bodies, in which both town and country were represented — for the towns were intimately concerned in opening up the country — and these bodies Bhould take charge of the waste lands, hospitals, and charitable aid, education, harbors, and he was not sure that it would not be wise to give them control of the police and gaols. He did not advocate a return to provincialism, or that the governing bodies he proposed should have any of "the powers of legislation which the Provincial Councils possessed ; but the districts should be as large as possible, always taking care that the people represented had identical interests. He had merely sketched broadly his idea, for he could not at that hour go into details. There were several other subjects which he would have wished to touch upon, but he found that time would not permit his doing bo. There was one subject, however, which he must not shirk — it was that of education ; and ho would say at once that he would always hold that it should be free and secular. (Loud and continued applause.) It was the greatest boon that had been given to the people of the colony, and it was a boon that should not be lightly cast away. (Renewed applause.) He was a member of the Government at the time the measure was passed, and be felt that the country was under considerable obligation to Mr Bowen, the Minister who introduced it, for putting the scheme at the very beginning in an almost complete state — a scheme which largely benefited the colony and which was generally recognised and appreciated. (Loud applause.) He waa aware, however, that there was one section of the community who considered themselves grievously wronged — he meant the Roman Catholics. (Applause.) When the bill was going through Parliament he (Mr Ormond) held the view, with Major Atkinson, that it was only reasonable that existing schools started by different denominations should have some aid, but that was not the opinion of his colleagues, and it waa not so provided in the bill. He could not but admit that the Roman Catholics had some grievance. They objected to their children attending the secular schools under the conviction of their religious faith, which he respected, and if he could see his way to affording them relief without imperilling the great scheme of national education he would gladly do so, but he waß afraid it waa not practicable. (Applause.) The Catholics were entitled to greai credit for the way in which they continued to maintain their schools, and the claim which they urged seemed at first sight exceedingly fair. They in effect said that it would only be a modicum of justice to give them a proportion of aid from the State according to ! the reaulta shown by examination of their pupila. Thiß appeared so fair a proposition that he would be inclined to accede to it if there were no danger of its imperilling the system the country had established. It would, indeed, be only an act of justice to accede to the proposal but for the danger it involved, and he could not close his eyes to that danger. Other denominations would in like 1 manner claim aid, and tbe national Byßtem would be upset. At the same time he could not but say that he felt a strong sympathy with the Catholics on the subject, and would be glad if a means of aiding them in the matter could bo devised without risk of further encroachments. Before concluding he wished to refer to one or two of the canards that had been circulated by his opponents respecting him. There was really nothing

in them, but he would like to say a word or two about them. One was that miserable canard nbout the Chinese. (Uproarious and prolonged derisive laughter.') He was glad to perceive by their jeers that the meeting properly appreciated the absurdity of the charge. A bigger humbug could not possibly have been invented. The canard was that he had advocated the introduction of Chinese laborers, and that he had written a circular to the Superintendents of Provinces urging them to recommend it. That was an utter falsehood. (Loud applause.) lie would tell them what it was he did. In 1876 the Government were carrying out the railway policy. He was then in charge of ihe Public Works Department. The colony was at the time sparsely populated, and no sooner were the works started than the available labor was exhausted. The Superintendents of the Provinces kept on urging that the railways in their several districts should be pushed on. Bushels of letters were received by the Public Works Department on the subject. The contractors, who were then paying 10s or 12s a day for laborers, found that they could not get men. The Government were pressing Messrs Brogden to go on with the works, and were much embarrassed on receiving a letter from those gentlemen stating that the only way they could comply with the demand of the Government was by importing a large number of Chineso laborers. The Government at once determined that nothing of the kind should be done. (Great applause.) The public works scheme included the settling of the country along with the building of the railways ; and was that scheme to be marred by the introduction of aliens ? The idea was monstrously ridiculous. (Renewed applause.) As the Superintendents continued pressing for the railways in their districts to be proceeded with the Government sent them a letter stating that the Brogdens wanted to import Chinamen, aud asking the Superintendents what they thought of it. The Superintendents represented the people, and the Government thought that as a matter of course the reply would be against the proposal. But much to his surprise replies were received from two Superintendents — those of Auckland and Wellington— in favor of the introduction of Chinese laborers. (Groans and uproar.) At that time Mr Rhodes was acting as his (Mr Ormond's) deputy in Hawke's Bhv, and he intimated to Mr Rhodes that he would of course reply that Hawkt's Bay did not want any Chinamen, and Mr Rhodes replied to that effect. (Applause.) When the whole of the answers from Ihe Superintendents were received thi- Government found that the greater number were opposed to the introduction of Chinese laborers, and so the Government were supported in their policy. That waa the explanation of the Chinese humbug. There was another matter ho would refer to, aud then he would be done. It was about tho Tort Ahuriri bridge. (Cheers, laughter, and uproar.) It did not appear to be a very great question, but it was one about which he thought he was entitled to sinie thanks for the share he had in it. It had been said that he never desired that the bridge should be erected. Those who said bo misrepresented him entirely. The bridge was not built by the Provincial Government because they could not afford it. When the matter was introduced by the representative of the dietref, Mr Routlodge, every assistance wns !.i.:u to him, and the bill was passed. If h was not given effeot to it was not the fault of the Provincial Government. Mr Villers, who was an old settler, and for whom he (Mr Ormond) had very great respect, had made a mistake in his account of what took place. He (Mr Ormond) did not make such promise as was alleged ; but ho did make a promise that whenever the opportunity offered he would do his utmost to have the bridge erected. And he had fulfilled the promise. (Applause.) He- would also add that but fur him they would not have had the bridgo now. (Renewed applause.) In 1877 ho waa a member of the Government, and aa Public Works Minister he prepared a list of works to be undertaken. The list waa now in his hand ; it was the only paper he had brought with him to the meeting. (Cheers.) Tt was the list which was said to have been found in a pigeon-hole. (Laughter.) It was headed " Supplementary Immigration and Public Works Estimates." On the Government being defeated their successors adopted that list in its entirety, and bo it was that the erection of the Port Ahurfri bridge waß carried out. If the Government of which he was a member had remained in office the bridge would have been erected forthwith, but their successors did not proceed with it till two years afterwards, and then only when a political exigency arose. (Applause.) He had not spoken about Mr Sheehan in any other matter, but he certainly objected to that gentleman calliug him (Mr Ormond) the Btepfather of the bridge. (Laughter.) If he at all understood the English language the man who begot waß the father, and so it was Mr Sheehan who was the stepfather of the bridge. (Prolonged laughter.) He would now conclude. He hoped the election would be fought fairly, and he would ask his supporters not to propose a vote of confidence. The proper way of expressing confidence waa through the ballot-box. (Loud applause.) If they returned him they would return one who was identified with their interests, one whose future was their future, and who would work his best for the advancement of the district. (Mr Ormond resumed his seat amidst enthusiastic cheering aud waving of hats, the greater part of the audience rising to their feet to join in the demonstration.)

A large number of questions were asked andj replied to, but the late hour at which the meeting terminated and the length of our report enables 113 only to select a few.

Mr M'Aneny aaked whether Sir Julius Yogel had received £27,000 for his services, and had raised £13,000,000 which he had squandered P Mr Ormond said he believed that Sir Julius Yogel had received £27,000, but he (Mr Ormond) did not know what that had to do with him.

Mr Berry asked what did Mr Ormond consider to be a fair day's pay for a working man?

Mr Ormond considered a fair day's pay was as much as a man was worth and as much as he could get. (Laughter and applause.) Mr R. G. Harding asked whether Mr Ormond would be in favor of the franchise baing extended in the election of licensing committees to all who were on the rolls for the election of members of the House of Representatives P Mr Ormond replied that he would. In reply to another question Mr Ortfiond said that while he was in favor of local option ho would not support the taking away of a publican's license who had conducted his house properly without giving him compensation. Mr H. O. Oornford said he had a very brief and pleasing duty to perform, and that was to move a hearty vote of thanks to Mr Ormond for his lengthy, able, painstaking, and statesmanlike address. Mr Leonard seconded the motion, remarking that he quite concurred in Mr Oornford's remarks.

The motion was carried amidst a perfect storm of cheers. The usual vote of thanks to the chairman brought the meeting to a closo considerably after 3 1 o'clock. "Buchu-Paiba." — Quick, complete cure 5 all- annoying Kidney, Bladder and Urinary Diseases. At Druggists. ITelton, Grimwa^o & Co , Agents, Wellington. 2c 3 The Tidy Housewife.— The careful, tidy housewife, when giving her house its spring cleaning should bear in mind that the dear inmates are more precious than houses ; their systems need cleansing, by puufyirg the

blood, regulating the slomachand bowels, and she should know that t litre is r.othirg ihnt will do it bo surely-aa llop Bitteri, tt.o purest and beet of all medicine?. Look for. 1&2. To restore nerve and brain waste, nothing equals Bop Bitters. Boliera this," See. 163