LIQUOR BILL

Gisborne Times, Volume LXVI, Issue 10450, 3 December 1927, Page 9

LIQUOR BILL

LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL MAKES ALTERATIONS. MAJORITY OF 52M7£ TO CARRY PROHIBITION. REGISTRATION OF BARMEN CLAUSE REJECTED. POLLS AT ALTERNATE GENERAL ELECTIONS THIRD READING CARRIED BY 21 VOTES TO 13 1 __

WELLINGTON, Dec. 2. i .The discussion on the . Licensing Amendment Bill was resumed at 10.30 in the Legislative Council this morning. i Speaking on tire clause, setting *o, r fh the manner in which tho result ol the poll is to bo determined, the Hon. Y . H. Reed moved an amendment to substitute the 521-474 majority to carry prohibition for the proposed bare majority. The Hon. G. J. Smith asked why the Council should depart, from the bare .majority principle embodied in the Bill. That principle was either right or wrong. He pointed out that all our legislation was based on the bare majority. He admitted.it would be a calamity if prohibition were carried bv one vote, but that did not alter the constitutional principle he referred to. The Hon. L. M. Isifcfe said Mr Reed should recognise that the prohibitionists had a majority in the House of Representatives, and,.any concession should, come from the minority. The prohibitionists had fought for the..bare majority provision, anil now their opponents expected them to give a solid concession of thousands of votes. Mr Reed said he was in favor ol some handicap being given to the prohibitionists ’ and ho asked for .i fair trial of what lie proposed. , Sir Wj Ilia in Hall-Joncs submitted that a wrong would be done to the people if the decision of the ..people’s representatives, in the. House was altered in any respect, and be declared that the Bill should be passed in its present form. The Hon. -T. B’. Gow asked if ,tlie Council was going to place a greater handicap on prohibitionists than obtained at. present. It was said if the State control issue were abolished, nine-tenths of it would go to continuance. Thus on the voting at the last poll only 5.600 more votes would go to prohibition, so that, continunnee would receive the greatest gain. Was it reasonable such a change in tile vote should bo allowed to. come about? The Hon. V. H. Reed said that 'figures showed actually the prohibition vote would" be better off under his scheme than it . was at- present. He quoted figures to show. on the basis of the voting at last poll, that under his proposal prohibition would receive a majority of 1212 over continuance. Several speakers deprecated the .juggling of figures and the use of the supposition that- nine-tenths of the State control votes would go to continuance. The lion. A. S. Malcolm argued • that. .those. who voted State control wished to see a change in the system or , abolition of continuance, and that it was, therefore, unfair to add the greater part of those votes te the continuance, vote". The amendment was carried by 21 votes to 11. The division list- was as follows: For the amendment (21).: Bell, Alison, Rhodes, Carrington, Clark, Cohen, Collins. Garland. 'Lang. AlacKenzie. 1 Mclntyre, Mander, AJicln*! Mitchelson, Newman. Reed, Scott. Snodgrass, Triggs, Weston, Witty. Against the Amendment (II). — Craigie, Gow, Hall-Joncs, Hainan, Hawke. Isitt, MacGregor, Malcolm, Moore Smith, Thomson. REGISTRATION OF BARMEN. •i-i. When tlie clause providing for the registration of barmen was reached, the Leader of the Council expressed the view that it should be struck out. There were several aspects of the question to be considered, and he thought the Council would be wise to delete tlie clause. THE- TENURE CLAUSE. The Hon. Y. R. Reed then moved a- new clause providing for the taking of a poll at alternate general elections. He explained that the subject of tlie clause was to give some stability, and enable licensees to make improvements to tlieir premises. , The Hon. A. S. Malcolm objected to the clause. He said l\e remembered when licenses were granted year by year, tlie term bad been extended to three years in order to give licensees an opportunity to carry out improvements. Now they had the demand for six years, and lie supposed before long there would be a 'demand for nine years, and even twelve years. The clause was just another attempt to fasten the liquor trade upon the country. “NOT SO INNOCENT TO ACCEPT BAIT.” The Hon. L. M. Isitt said the prohibitionists were not so innocent as to accept the bait which had been held -out by Mr. lleed. There was a great need for improving tlie conduct of the hotels, and if they yielded to the six-year proposal they would lose their hold on tho trade more than evei*. „ . The Hon. J. B. Gow said he failed to see why the liquor trade should b'o riven preferential treatment in the taking of polls. Tho time should nob be extended between polls until the period in which,the general elections ivere held was extended. Support to this view was given by the Hen. H. Michel. . ■ The Hon. J. B. Gow said he /was sure the, extension would greatly enrich brewers’by reason of the addeu value of the goodwill. v TO ASSIST THE MODERATE MAN Tho Hon. V. 'Reed said liis object was not for .the purpose of assisting the Trade; but to assist the modulate man, who could not bo assisted unless a reasonable tenure urns given to enable ■ him a, reasonable period in w'hicli improvement's nnglit be- made to his accommodation. , • c/no gfpQtJT QUESTIONS COUN- ' . OIL’S POWERS. ■ -Sir Robt, Stout, said.the proposal was -to grant a monopoly for another three years-/- .AYimt "did the noonlo "et forV it?—Nothing. Had grant the Trade a,;, ‘monopoly which liad not been "submitted to tlio sanction'' bf; the-people "by tlie Crowa. . Sir- F. Bell said lie yielded to no nian in his desire to see no license carried. ! If it veve. carried he w.uitied a six years? interval to see Hmt the great reform was established. POWER OF - THE TRADE’S- ' .MONEY; . . r • The Hon. A Malcolm 'expressed the obinion - that the amendment would- make tlie carrying of prohibition . very much more unlikely than lit present.- “It is- the money ot( the Trade that keeps us" ‘ from gaining prohibition,” he, declared,, “rather than the voting of the people. ihe proposal would give tire Trade six years in which to accumulate money

to fight the polling campaign with. He. would oppose the amendment. : Resuming the discussion • after lunch, the Hon. L. M. Isitt said before they could be asked for an extension of the period to get better accommodation the moderates slipind exert themselves in an- improvement of hotel, conditions,. ~ The Hon. V. Reed said that if the amendment were carried-; ho: was prepared to move for the insertion of a new clause giving licensing committees power to insist, upon the -alteration and the -re-building of licensed premises. - ?, ■ SIX YEARS' TENURE CLAUSE CARRIED. The Hon. M. Cohen said that the accommodation was far from what it should be, and if the Health..ju.itlioritics did what they should clo many of the hotels would be closed down. Hitherto there had been temporising ‘by both licensing, committees and licensees, but- public opinion would prevent that in future. The proposal was carried by IS votes to 13 votes. Tlie- voting was as follows:—* For the Clause (18). —8011, Rhodes, Alison. Carrington, Clark, Cohen, Collins, Garland, 'Lang,. MacKeiixie, Mclntyre, Mitchelson, Reed, Rilciimna, Scott. Triggs, Weston, Witty. Against the Clause , (13). —Craigie, Gow, Hall-Joncs, Ilawke, Isitt, MacGregor, Malcolm, Michel, Moore, Smith, Snodgrass, Stout, Thomson. POLL SUBSEQUENT TO PRO--JHBITION. Consequent on the- amendment just made, Sir Francis Bell moved: “That simultaneously with the -first general election of members of Parliament after the- expiration of five years from the date when the poll at which national prohibition was carried, there should be submitted to the determination of electors the question* of national prohibition being continued, or whether licenses to store intoxicating liquor should be restored in the Dominion.” Sir F. Bell, in reply to a questionby Mr. Malcolm, said the six years interval would not prevent the taking of the poll m 1928". The proposal was carried. MR R. STOUT AGAIN QUESTION'S COUNCIL'S POWERS. Speaking oil the third reading, Sir R. Stout said lie doubted the power of the Council to do what it had done, for tlie Bilj really involved the .appropriation of Crown assets. The Hon. T. G. Weston said no democracy was entitled to interfere •with the' habits and inclinations of a very large minority mi a minority vote. If prohibition was to come, lot t come once- and for all. The'Hon J . B. Gow re-asserted the., prohibitionists’ contention that they were actuated not for the benefit of the individual, but of the, masses who were suffering indirectly from tho evil effects of the licensed trade. THIRD READING CARRIED. The third reading was carried by 21 votes to 13, as follows: Ayes.—Bell. Rhodes, Alison, Barr, Carrington, Chirk, Cohen, Collins, Garland Lang MacKonzie, Mclntyre, Mander, Mitchelson, Newman. Reed, Rikiliana, Snodgrass, Triggs, Weston and Witty. Noes.—Craigie, Gow, I la-11-Jonos, Han an, Hawke," Isitt.' MacGregor. Malcolm, Michel, Moore, Smith, Stout, Thomson.—P.A. „ . . HON. J. B. GOW' REFUSES . CHARGE: OF BILL. WELLINGTON, Dec. 2. After the second crucial division ju the extension of tenure- the Hon J. B. Gow intimated hi; could no longer retain charge of the Bill as his supporters could not regard it in its amended form as theirs. He said Sir E'. Bbll had undertaken to take charge of it.. Sir F. Bell thereupon explained be did so not as leader of the Council, but on behalf of the promoter of tlie measure in the House, Mr Coates.. —P.A. BILL ABSOLUTELY DEAD WELLINGTON, Dee. 2. Following upon the result of u division in the Council the Hon. A S. Malcolm expressed the- opinion that it hardly mattered what they dill with, the Bill, as it was absolutely dead.-*—P.A.