NATIONAL ENDOWMENT BILL.

Gisborne Times, Volume XXV, Issue 2223, 29 October 1907, Page 1

NATIONAL ENDOWMENT BILL.

tub intended proposals. EXPLANATIONS AND VIEWS. (Special to Timesl. WELLINGTON, October 28. The Government announcement of its list of proposed national endowments is just now of course the principal point of political interest. The freeholders are oxtrcmely dubious as to whether they have gained any advantages, and tho North Island members especially are not inclined to bo satisfied, as, whilst deductions have been made from areas proposed to be set apart in tho North Island, they are liable to bo increased by land which may bo held as grazing runs, and renewable leases. borne 01 the leaseholders regard the new proposals very favorably, but others are inclined to doubt whether their cause has gained any advantage. DISCUSSION IN THE HOUSE.

Mr. McNab gave somo explanation of the now proposals. He stated that ol' tho original 9,000,000 acres, 7,500,000 acres had been rn tho south island and 1,500,000 in the North Island. Two million acres were to lie taken from tho area in 'the South. To make up for this it wasjiroposed the small grazing runs granted under tho 1892 Act and renewable leases were to bo included. Grazing runs covered an area of 60,000 acres, and tenants would suffer no hardship since tho tenure would not bo altered, the option of tho freehold would not be interfered with. In connection with tho renewable leases a settler -stould exercise the option. If 'lio chose a renewable lease, tho land would go under tho endowment. llic change would make a fairer proportion between tho two Islands. Mr. Fisher wanted to know whether the two million acres now to bo sciujeezed out of tho endowments would come under tho optional tenalMr. McNab said it was possible but very improbable, because the area would bo grazing land. Mr. Fisher said it seemed as if tho Government intended to whittle down tho proposed endowment to ( million acres. What ho asked was the object of putting out grazing land simply to put in other grazing lands! It was simply a concession made with the object of lessening the opposition to tho Endowment Bill. Mr. Massey: To make it less objectionable to certain membois. Mr. Fisher: It is a mere shuffle of the cards, taking out some grazing lands and putting others in. Mr. IV. Fraser said the two million acres to be deducted were pretty well all in the South Island. Mr. McNab: All m the South Island. ~ , Mr. AY. Fraser: Will there be an opportunity of discussing every article in the schedule? Mr. McNab: Every line of it word bv word. ... 'Mr AV Fraser said tlie position appeared to be still very unsatisfactory. Under the new proposals the endowments might eventually, as other lands came under them, mount up to ten or even fifteen million acres. Mr. Ross said a number of small grazing runliolders had the right of converting their twenty-one year lease to tho lease in perpetuity tenure. AA T ould that right be affected bv inclusion in the endowment area? Mr. McNab: They will have no right to convert. There is the power now but tlie bon. gentleman voted with, me to put & clause in tlio Endowment Bill taking the power away. , , . Mr. Ross: But what is the position in regard to those who hold prior rights? , . . , ~ Mr McNab: There is just the power of the Minister to give it. Thero is no right. Mr. James Allen said tho IbUZ runs, and future grazing runs also, would now como into the endowments. Mr. McNab: Yes. That is so. Mr. Allen: AA T hafc about tlio 1885 runs as they run out and come to be relet? AA’liat will happen? Mr. McNab: They will be relet under tlie old Act for 21 years. They won’t be in tlio endowments. After some further protests by tho Opposition tlie vital clauses of the Bill were postponed. A number of machinery clauses were put through, and tho House rose at 3

MR MASSEY’S VIEWS On being "asked his views on the new proposals the Leader of the Opposition stated the position as fol-lows:—-“According to information supplied to Parliament last year there still remains in the hands of the Crown between 16 aiul 17 million acres of land, including lands leased for pastoral purposes, and consisting principally of second and third class quality. Part of this land, according to the Land Bill would be available for settlement under the cash renewable lease, or tlio occupation with right of purchase system, the 999 years lease in perpetuity system being abolished. The Endowment Bill as introduced provided for the setting aside of nine million acres of these lands as endowments, nominally for the purposes of education and old age nensions. The absurdity of tho proposal is proved by tho fact that the present revenue derived from these 9,000,000 acres is only some £49,000, and that is not likely to be greatly increased in future, whilst the present cost of education, and old age pensions is between £1,100,000 and £1,200,000.” Mr. Massey referred to the disapproval expressed by a number of Southern members during the second reading of tho debate at the largo proportion oT endowments (7,795,000 acres) that it was proposed to set apart in the South Island. As a consequence of these complaints, the Premier now proposed to strike out two million acres from the South Island. “At tho same time, however,” continued Mr. Massey, “it is proposed to include in the endowments the grazing runs, and all tho land that may in future be taken up under the new renewable lease system. It- is somewhat difficult to say just yet rvliat the effect -will be, because in all probability large areas of land will be purchased by the Crown from the natives. This land will be thrown open under the optional system, and if any part of it is taken up under tho renewable lease, such land will become part of endowments.”

“In tlie case of small grazing runs it is also impossible to say what the ultimate effect of the new proposals will be, for the reason that it applies not only to the land now sot ajiart, and to all grazing runs, but also to any land which may be classified under that heading in future. For instance, there are a number of very largo areas held under part 6 of tho Land Act for pastoral purposes. As these leases fall in they may be subdivided into small grazing runs, and thus become part of tho endowment. Another important point is contained in the fact, that if, when pastoral leases fall in, there is any portion of such land fit for closer settlement, that portion may under tho present law be disposed of under tho optional system. But in case of laud set apart" as endowments it will be available only under tho renewable lease. Under such circumstances settlement will suffer, and perhaps seriously.” t Is not the area of endowments in the North Island likely to be increased bv the latest proposal? “That is so, of course, but how much it is impossible to say, becauso,

as I liavo said, it depends to a large extent upon the amount of land that may be ta'kcn up under the renewable) lease, or set apart as small grazing runs.” Speaking of the proposed endowments generally, Mr. Massey said: “Our experience of second class country land as endowments has been the roverse of satisfactory, and X do not think tlio endowment is the real object of what is proposed. A largo proportion of the proposed endowment is of such poor quality that little .increases in values can be expected from it, while the better por tion will roquiro a large exuendituro for loading, etc., and which will still further diminish the expected income. The real object is, I believe, to have theso lands nationalised and occupied under a leasehold tenure only, and so placate that section of the House and their supporters whose motto is “no freeholders need apply.” Do you think that generally speaking tlio now proposals are less objectionable than the former proposals? “No, I hardly think so. Under the first thero was a finality in that the area was fixed at a definite limit, but under tlio system now proposed tliero will bo no finality.’ LEASEHOLD VIEWS. . Jlllirv Jcaseliold party do not appear to regard tlio modification of tlio endowment proposals with unmixed feelings. One member of that side of the House' on being asked for lus opinion stated that he thought tlio amendment would bo a gain from tlio leasehold point of view.. Another leaseholder took an opposite view. “They are taking away two million acres from the endowments, lie said, 11 and giving in return lands which would bo leasehold lands in any case. From the leaseholders point of view thero is no gain although, of course, tlio endowment fund may benefit from the diversion of revenue.” ~ It was pointed out that a portion of the two million acres deducted from the schedule may still be taken up under the leasehold tenure but the member did not appear to regaid this prospect as a very hopeful one. Mr. Wilford has given notice of an amendment empowering the Government to sell, or otherwise dispose of endowments at any time. 0 1 j VP et the proceeds in the purchase ui Jands within ten miles o a town or 333 M& snch ’lands to be setapart as endowments under tlio Act.