AFFAIRS OF THE EMPIRE

Evening Post, Volume CX, Issue 37, 12 August 1930, Page 4

AFFAIRS OF THE EMPIRE

PRIME MINISTER'S MISSION

GOODWILL OF HOUSE

-The discussion on Imperial affairs in the House of Representatives'yesterday revealed a general feeling of friendliness'on the part of members, irrespective of party corisidefatidns, and the Prime Minister was warmly congratulated from all sides of the House on having the opportunity to represent the Dominion in London- A . wide range of topics was covered during-..the discussion, which continued from the early afternoon .until close on midnight. • Haying expressed the.view that Sir Thomas Sidey should accompany the Prime Minister to the Conference so as to be able to ' tender advice on legal and constitutional questions, the Leader of the Opposition affirmed that New Zealand, should stand by the ; Mother Country in decisions which .the Home Government mighthave to make. ," ,' . . The Leader of the Labour Party suggested that in futu re representation at the Conference should not be;confined to one party only. In contradistinction to this idea, the Hon. W. Downie Stewart said that if all parlies were included in the discussions the proceedings would develop into a bear garden, and the reaching of . decisions would be stultified. Concluding the debate, the Prime Minister emphasised that it was the duty of all to recognise that England and her Dominions could best exist as an Empire.

The Leader of the Opposition (the' Eight Hon. J. G. Goates) -sato ' lie. thought it advisable for New .Zealand" to send -with,its delegation a competent legal representative, and he suggested that Sir Thomas Sidey should-, go ■with the Prime Minister. It was necessary for a representative of tho delegation to have a knowledge of eonstitu1-. ■tional law and the Imperial Acts. Mr., Coates expressed - J pleasure at Mr. Porbes's statement that the Government proposed to maintain New Zealand's traditional attitude. He thought that Would be entirely acceptable to. the pVople. New Zealand could,: and; ought toj give a lead in the fostering of Empire trade, and,also give .inducement in that direction. discussing the report of tho Committee/ of Experts set up at the 1920 Imperial Conference, Mr. Coates said that the principle of equal status had .been generally recognised, but the question of equal function was another matter. The Committee of Experts had stated •that equality of status did not mean limitation as ,to how far a Dominion could move in tho matter of legislation. The Committee simply recommended -the repeal of the Colonial Laws .Validity Act. Whereas the exports had been asked to suggest how tho doctrine of equality as between the various parts 'of the Empire should bo made workable, they had laid it down that the overruling principle was that of equality, and that therefore no limitations should be imposed. If that had been in the minds of the Imperial Conference delegates, the experts would have been askod to do something quite different, but it appeared that they had not earlied out their task as .they were requested. The 1930 Conference was not bound to accept the decisions of the exports.and, in fact, it should not do so.- They had apparently .deliberately misconstrued the order of reference. APPEAL TO PRIVY COUNCIL. , Mr. Coates said there was no power Ijy any agreement with the Imperial Government by which any Dominion ■was deprived of the right to appeal to/the Privy Council if so desired, and he thought, it was advisablo that the position should remain at that. Mr. P« G. Sullivan (Labour, Avon): «!■ There is no obligation to appeal, of ieourße." ■ "•-.... , • , Mr. Coates: "There is nothing .to bay there is not the right to appeal to the Privy Council." .. Mr. Sullivan: "There is an obligation to accept judgment, is there not? -. ' Mr. Coates: "Oh, yes, that point has never been raised." He said that the Dominions as a "whole favoured appeal to^the Privy Council, He suggested to. the Prime Minister that he should ask tho Committee of Experts to review their work, and that he should emphasise the point that equal status was ■not equal function. ''. ' Mr. Coates said that while New Zealand- was given the right to express her opinion in Empire matters, he thought that if the British Government found it necessary to take a certain act or make a certain decision, New Zealand would, follow, her "traditional attitude, and stand by the Mother Country. ; EMPIRE COMMUNICATIONS. Referring'to the inter-relation of foreign affairs and Dominion affairs, Mr. Coates said he thought that the policy followed in the past of communications being transmitted through the Governor-General was the Tight system. .:...,., He went on to rofor to the decision of the last Imperial Conference to set up. an oragnisation whereby a welltrained staff of officers would be built up for tho purpose of advising the various Governments on Empire masters, and to bring about closer communications in the Empire. Ho stressed the value of an interchange of officers with that object in view, and said that the idea could very usefully bo expanded. Under the decision of the Imperial Conference the Foreign Office had been represented in New Zealand for a period by Mr. P. B. B. Nicholls, and he regretted that Mr. Nicholls's place had not been filled after his return to England. \ In conclusion, Mr. Coates said that there wns a better opportunity now than. ever for bringing about closer trade communication within tho Empire. ■""IMPERIALISM IS DOMINATION." The Leader of the Labour Party (Mr. H: E. Holland) suggested to the Prime Minister that he place before the Conference the advisability of changing the name of the Conference to that of tho. Conference of the British Commonwealth of Nations. The title, Imperial Conference, implied Imperialism, which, inj turn, suggested domination and subjection. The Dominions claimed to stand in partnership with the other British nations. The change of status was inevitable, and he hoped that it would be developed on smooth and intellectual lines. He also considered that the representatives of the Dominions should not be confined to one party only, and hoped that a move would be made for an amendment to the constitution of the Conference. This matter had been raised by Mr. Bamsay Mac Donald when ho was Prime Minister of England in 1924, and had been referred to the Dominions at that time, but it did not seem to have received the snpport of the Dominion Governments, which had not referred the question to their Parliaments. . . Mr. Holland expressed the hope that the rights of women to retain their nationality, in. the: event, ol their marrying men of another nation would be considered by the Conference. He knew *i»e«? wesa diffienltiea in, iho wayj but]

the"'present law was arelic of a by-gone day. TVhen a woman was regarded as tho property of the man. ; ' ... Although Now Zealand was capable of maintaining a population of 10,000,----000, it': would.be more, than criminal to bring'put more; immigrants at the pro-, sent ..time, as they would only swell the ranks :of the unemployed. IMPORTANCE OF DEFENCE. Mr.'P; Waite(Reform, Clutha) to-ferred-to the high standing of Dominion Prime Ministers and said Mr. Forbes would be undertaking one of the greatest responsibilities which any colonial statesman could undertake. They "knew ho would ;do, justice to the position and would' represent the traditional view of New Zealand. (Hear, hear.) . * Referring to the Committee of Imperial Defence, Mr. Waitc said that ever since, the Franco-Bussian War there had. been a plan of Imperial defence in existence and the value of that plan had been in evidence during the South African War. He would be very surprised to learn that there was no commitment at the present time. In the future the defence of Now Zealand would not be confined to the Dominion itself, but tho young men of the country would have to go abroad. /If all the nations of the world had known what commitments existed between the nations in 1914 it might have been possible to avoid tho Great' War, and he hoped that in the future the nations would be more frank with each other. Ho hoped tho coming Conference would see the British nations placed on a more secure basis than ever before. A VITAL SUBJECT. Mr. D. G. Sullivan (Labour, Avon) said he regarded tho decision, of the last Imperial Conference as to the formula of the status of the Dominions as a fine piece of statesmanship. It had had the. effect of eliminating republican sentiment in South Africa. The formula had not weakened New Zealand's ties with the Old Country, and on the other hand it had considerably strengthened the position of some other parts of the Empire. Within proper limits, he favoured the utmost preference being given, to the Old Country, but we must not prejudice our. own local industry. New Zealand bought more British goods per head of the population than any other country, nnd that showed that we had treated the Old Country more than fairly, but it would not strengthen the bonds of Empire to do a service to Great Britain at the expense of our own producers., In conclusion, he said he hoped Mr. Forbes ■ would be able -to do much to the advantage'of ;the people of New Zealand when he went to the Conference. ■ ! -■■•■■ EXTRATERRITORIALITY ; QUESTION. The Hon.-W.. Downie Stewart (Beforrn, Dunedin West) said ho did not attach much importance to the suggestion that the title of the Conference should bo changed. Ho pointed out that India was not a self-governing element in the British Commonwealth. Nor did he believe the suggestion, for party representation would be satisfactory, because of the widely conflicting views that would be expressed. The views of the countries represented rather than of parties must •be presented, and if all parties were included' in the discussions the proceedings would develop into a bear garden, and the reaching of decisions would be stultified. He expressed approval of _ Mr. Forbes Js statement that our traditional attitude would be preserved in. the matter of Dominion status, and he thought that was the Dominion point of view. There had recently been a swinging away from the exuberant, claim by Dominions for independence, and a recognition that such a course was not altogether wise. Mr. Stewart said that the Expert Committee had made one novel departure from the Balfouv formula. At present the Dominions had no power to legislate affecting people beyond their territorial, boundaries. It was recommended that the Dominions should have power to pass legislation having extra-territorial jurisdiction. This might give rise to controversy, ©specially in regard to shipping.laws. New Zealand had never felt the need for such power, except in certain cases of bigamy. He suggested that the Prime Minister should obtain, the best constitutional advice before he agreed to the recommendation being adopted, for it might have far-reaching and unexpected effects. He did not think New Zealand should agree to it because other Dominions agreed to it. TRADE WITH BRITAIN. Mr. W. Nash (Labour, Hutt) said that while Britain depended on the Dominions for her foodßtuffs, the Dominions tended more and more to the desire to make themselves self-con-tained. Ho agreed that we should maintain our attitude towards the Old Country, but if we set up uneconomical secondary industries, to that extent would we destroy our help towards Britain. If New Zealand neglected to seek British trade, it might go elsewhere, as there were ■ countries •in Europe and Asia which were seeking British manufactures. The Empire was a family of nations, and there was no more reason why New Zealand should raise barriers against England than Scotland should. Tho Prime Minister had stated that he was seeking tho views of tho Chambers of Commerce find the manufacturers'' associations, but why did he not ask tho Labour organisations for their views? Their .interests woro just as vitally concerned ap those of any other section of the community, especially ga gnch nuyfctera as inunigra-

tion. No organisation in the history of tho world had ever done so much in such a limited period for the reasonable and national working of the various countries as tho League oi' Nations had done, and the International Labour Office had accomplished much in raising the standard of living among tho various nations. Thus it was to bo hoped that Now Zealand would givo the League, its full support and that the Dominion would be permanently represented at the International Labour Conference. ' ■ ' 'NEBULOUS STATE OF MIND." Mr. J. S. Fletcher (Independent, Grey Lynn) said the action of the Prime Minister in seeking tho advice} of manufacturers and others earlier was a. matter for condemnation. ■ Tho views oi those people should have been obtained long ago, for to-day the Prime Mm: istcr was not iv a position to say.what attitude he was going to adopt on certain questions. Mr. Forbes should have given some indication of what ho was going to do in regard to reciprocal pensions. He was going to the Conference in a nebulous state of mind, and as a result they would get nothing out of the Conference. POINTS OP DANGER. .Mr. D. Jones (Reform, Mid-Canter-bury) said he thought it would be a retrograde step to have a permanent Imperial Conference body 'in Britain, as a lapse of time solved many dimcultios. Tho'difficulties this year were peculiar. There was very little stability in most of tho Governments of the Empire,and consequently the dele: gates would not bo able to speak with tlie.samo confidence. HOPEFUL REPORT. Mr. P. Praser (Labour, Wellington Central) road the report from the Now Zealand representative on the League of Nations, Sir James Parr, showing the growing attitude for the outlawry of war. It was the most hopeful report that they had yet received. Good work had also been done in respect to the shipping legislation of tho BritishDominions, and a distinguished gathering'had decided that tho Dominions had full control of the shipping within their waters. The question of_ reciprocity in connection with pensions— particularly, old ago pensions—was> an important ono, and he asked tho Prime Minister to" give it his particular attention at the Conference. Bofore ISS4 a woman who married an alien could retain her 'nationality, but since then tho law'had been altered, and the women of Now Zealand as well as tho women in other parts of tho Empire were crying out for this right to be restored. "THINK IMPERIALLY. 'V Tho opinion was expressed by Captain H.-'M. Rushworth (Country Party, Bay of Islands) that the integral parts of the Empire were drifting further ana further apart, and he hoped the Prime Minister would do his best to remove any impression that New Zealand wanted to become self-contained. New Zoaland had to learn to think Imperially; at present there was too much of the parish-pump about their discussions. . . Mr. W. IL Field (Reform, Ottiki) said it -would be a reproach on Now Zealand if if was not represented at the Conference. He did not think the Prime Minister had gone far enough in his consultation with tho various interests. It would have been better if tho views of the-wool interests had been sought. He was a firm believer in immigration, but it ,had to be immigration of the right kind. Ho expressed the opinion that New Zealand should havo a Trade Commissioner in Ireland. RATE OF EXCHANGE. Mr. J. T. Hogan (Independent, Raiigitikei)^ considered that in connection with the defence of the Empire New Zealand should bear her full share, especially as to-day- tho British taxpayer was heavily burdened.' Surely now that the outposts of the Empire were being drawn closer together there should be some reciprocity in regard to pensions. He hoped also that the Prime Minister would investigate the rate of exchange and try and end the system whereby New Zealand was coupled'with Australia. In the seven years up to 1929 the Australian balance of 'trade had been against her, while over the same period New Zealand had a big favourable balance, and it.was, indeed, unfortunate that, because wo were bracketed with Australia, we had to put up with an unfavourable rato of exchange. : NO PARTY LINES. In reply, the Prime Minister said that in approaching the Conference he was fortified by the opinions that had been expressed during the debate. The Conference was not a party one, and it was his aim to voice the opinions of tho people of New Zealand as a whole. He would support tho traditional New Zoaland policy. One had to recognise, nevertheless, that there would be other Dominions at the Conference, and different views would be expressed, but it was the duty of all to stress the fact that England and her Dominions and colonies could exist best as an Empire. The "people of the Dominion, he felt sure, did not look on Imperial affairs" from the point of view of raising little difficulties; they were willing to fall in with the sentiment genorally expressed. Great Britain had given us freedom to -work out our own destinies, and whatever we could do in support of the King would be for the benefit of the Empire. We should bo prepared to sink little differences so as to enable us to get closer in understanding with the other parts of the Empire. The question of the constitution of the Conference had been discussed previously. It Would,bo very-difficult to give party representation. Ho hoped that if he went to tho Conference he would lie able to express the sentiment and aspirations of Now Zealand as a Dominion. He did not think the representation of tho Crown in the Dominions could be improved upon; that was exemplified by the respect which was shown for the Governor-General. . Ho would not liko to see tho status of the Gover-nor-General lowered in any way. He would be pleased to discuss the question of old-age pensions when ho was in England, as he realised there was room for improvement. Mr. Forbe3 thanked the House for the good wishes which had been extended to him. He would have desired to see the work of the session through before leaving the country, but he felt there was a general desire throughout the country that he should represent Now Zealand. He would not speak for auy ono party, but would do his best to represent the whole of the Dominion.